Not a snowflakes chance in Dubai of it topping out before Xmas ...

This weekend we've seen yet another magnificent waste of productivity...

- Yesterday was an RDO on a beautiful still sunny day = no work
- Today we had moderate winds in the *morning only* yet no rain = no work *AT ALL* today at Eureka

:bash: :bash: :bash:

Fav - where are your honarable workers sitting out the bad weather and returning to work for the good weather today???

I notice Grocon's union are particuarly bad at this - no action at all - whilst at least at FWP there was some crane action by the afternoon...

Maybe tomorrow if the temperature is between 23.5 & 24.6 deg C with humidity between 30-45% and < 1kt of wind we might see a few hours work..

Not a snowflakes chance in Dubai of it topping out before Xmas ...

This weekend we've seen yet another magnificent waste of productivity...

- Yesterday was an RDO on a beautiful still sunny day = no work
- Today we had moderate winds in the *morning only* yet no rain = no work *AT ALL* today at Eureka

:bash: :bash: :bash:

Fav - where are your honarable workers sitting out the bad weather and returning to work for the good weather today???

I notice Grocon's union are particuarly bad at this - no action at all - whilst at least at FWP there was some crane action by the afternoon...

Maybe tomorrow if the temperature is between 23.5 & 24.6 deg C with humidity between 30-45% and < 1kt of wind we might see a few hours work..


A Brain, again you show your complete ignorance and total lack of tact. Grocon do not have their own union, allthough they wish they did and are still trying for it. The construction union movement is as one.
Please have some respect for the formworker who died at work on Friday. Tell us all big man, what chance is there of you not coming home from work, of being killed trying to provide for your family.


these guys at Swinburne use our software & hardware to drive the laser that created the model. I just upgraded their interface to a higher speed variety so they will be able to create even smaller and more detailed micro-structures from now on ...

I for one am sick of your shit, and can't wait to meet you at the meet.

Exactly. Also, just because you may not see signs of external construction work at the site that doesn't mean that nothing is happenning there... there would be work happening on other parts of the project I am sure.

stu

Favco, maybe i'm misreading but don't threaten abrain.
Its not cool.
and Abrain, stop whinging.

Can you guys kiss and make up or something? Its getting really annoying.

misreading

Abrain, stop whinging.

Can you guys kiss and make up or something? Its getting really annoying.



It's more than annoying, it's embarrasing. We all live in a city built by construction workers, many worship the cold impersonal steel and concrete forms of their labour and some show no respect. I enjoy a fair arguement at any time, but I refuse to listen to drivel, and let others read it and believe it to be true. Facts are facts, opinions are opinions, the two shouldn't be confused.

A-Brain, you're sounding a little too much like Frank Crowe (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/hoover/peopleevents/pandeAMEX87.html) for my liking... respect the people who are actually putting their sweat and tears into this building!

Hey guys, we're starting to sound like we're in question time in parliament again!! As I've said before, there is always going to be someone who'll get pissed off with someone else's comments, argument, whatever. I'm not a moderator here and I don't pretend to be one, however, as far as I'm concerned, if you've got an issue with someone else's post, fine, but keep it civil on the forum or PM them!! This 'aint the place for threats or any of that kind of shit. :ohno: That's my :2cents: worth

Let's get along :grouphug: ;)

yes cia- i agree. absalutely no verbal attacks of threats are allowed on our forums or is ban time! end of story! everyone get along! :runaway:

Gday Favco ,

Correct me if i am reading your post incorrectly, but did you say that because a worker died last Friday , the whole construction industry took a whole day of Tuesday to mourn the loss of the worker ?

Please let me know the situatuion ?

Cheers

Lozza :bowtie:

Gday Favco ,

Correct me if i am reading your post incorrectly, but did you say that because a worker died last Friday , the whole construction industry took a whole day of Tuesday to mourn the loss of the worker ?

Please let me know the situatuion ?

Cheers

Lozza :bowtie:

What more do I need to say?

Fav - your 'threat' sounds a lot like the bullying tactics unions often use to get what they want..

I for one can't wait to meet you at the meet also.. shall I bring a hardhat ??

^

Well, if the above comment is true Favco and they did have a day off to mourn the loss of a worker, I think its a bloody joke and an absolute discrace !!

In fact................ It stinks actually !

No disrespect to the worker who lost his life of course, but in my opinion , this issue is not about that.........

Where i work , we certainly wouldn't even dream of getting a day off if someone here died on the job....... :wtf:

Cheers

Lozza :bowtie:

Yeah I would agree with lozza here, that is ridiculous if they stopped work because someone died.

The construction industry is a relatively high risk job, when working at such heights and with heavy machinery and material around you, accidents are bound to happen. As professionals in their jobs people should realise that.

But to make an entire workforce stop construction because of 1 death, that is attrocious. It doesn't help in any way. No disrespect intended, but what do they want the other workers to do, stay home and cry the whole day? You can still keep working and pay your respects to your fellow worker. There is such a thing as a funeral right? Geez...

Maybe we should get Arnie in to address the unions about being 'Girly Men' ;)

"maybe i'm misreading but don't threaten abrain."

"This 'aint the place for threats or any of that kind of shit. That's my 2c worth"

"absalutely (sic) no verbal attacks of threats are allowed on our forums"

"I for one can't wait to meet you at the meet also.. shall I bring a hardhat ??"


If the anticipation of meeting someone and the joy of knowing that debate can escalate and grow over a few quiet beers is deemed to be a threat, then I would rather drink with the under 9 footy club down the road. Please don't feel so flattered that I could waste so much energy at the end of a day to threaten computer programmers, I don't think I could manage to follow through anybodys threats after working hard all day, then walking around knee deep in bullshit at night trying to offer a different perspective to your often one sided arguements with yourselves.

Maybe you would prefer that all workers, construction or not, had no complaints, never argued that their conditions were poor, never had holidays and never got sick.

"accidents are bound to happen." "bullying tactics unions often use to get what they want.." "Where i work , we certainly wouldn't even dream of getting a day off if someone here died on the job....... " "that is ridiculous if they stopped work because someone died." "There is such a thing as a funeral right? Geez..."

When you read this, what do you think it sounds like??? If this all seems acceptable to anyone, that we can afford deaths at work, you need to have a good hard look at yourselves in your metrosexual mirrors in fancy inner city apartments and small bed sitters in Prahran, because think of the people left behind.
All the aspiring engineers and construction office staff, your parents just supported you through 5 years or so of uni for what, a dodgy concrete pump to collapse and split your head open to the point you are identified by dental records and body scars.
Normal city office workers who support the ideas that A brain seems to be the ringleader of, you are crossing the road to get a latte and some california rolls and a sheet of plywood sails down 26 floors and separates the top and bottom half of your body?????
Is this the world we want to live in. Do we also support Bin Laden and his mates for expressing their right to free speech????

Everyone looks to EUREKA and sees a wonderful building, with it's misplaced glass panel, it's gold tip etc and admires the building for its asthetic points of merit. I see a different perspective. I admire those who had the balls to dream it, those who spent years in a shitty little office drawing it, and of course those who get their hands dirty building it. It will be home to thousands of people who will take great pride in calling the Big E home, and telling all their friends how fast the lifts go, how good the finishings are, but will any of them comment on the statement it makes to the world.

LOOK AT WHAT WE MADE!!!! It is a combination of brawn and brain, computers and cranes, cad drawings and sketches up against new plaster walls that shows the world that civilisation is not dead, that the human race cares for its peers and will do anything to protect the freedoms that it has won over time.

Anyone here who fails to see the good that previous generations before us have fought for and won, like free speech, like the abolition of lords and feudal landholders and RDO's, can go and get buggered. If you choose to live in a world where life means nothing, and we can afford to let workers die because "accidents are bound to happen," well please move somewhere a bit more third world than here.

I am proud of my status in the community, I am proud to be a construction worker and I don't need $1000 worth of clothes to feel comfortable enough to sit in a pub at the bottom of a building that I built and pay $8 for a stubby.

That's my 2 cents worth!

"I for one am sick of your shit, and can't wait to meet you at the meet.

Sounds a lot like a threat to me - and a few other people as well - so maybe phrasing it like "I'm looking forward to a friendly debate over a few quite ales" would work better next time.

Don't think I'm not mindful of workers rights, safety procedues, Work-Care, not overworking hours because of fatigue leading to injury. I agree 110% - workers conditions in places like Asia disgusts me.

But I'm saying you guys have pushed it just a little too far and got a pretty sweet deal here in Victoria - all available evidence proves this.

Now back to topic related discussion:

Cul - I'm counting exposed floors in my sig as current floor level - as currently only the walls and slab of Level 56 are actually in concrete, Level 57 is still only scaffolding...

.. which If I was going to count then I could really count Level 58 as well as the scaffolding reaches that high..

Cool?

If there is a death in a workplace anywhere (short of a war zone), then work immediately stops. This is not an act of sympathy this is to immediately ensure that all systems and a safety analysis is conducted to ensure that the death wasn't due to a systemic failure. Oddly enough this even occurs in the Australian Defence Force. When we have a soldier, sailor or airperson killed we stop all related systems (in peace time) until we can ascertain that the death is not related to poor workplace systems or practices. Or even perhaps due to failure of equipment.

One expects that if a construction worker is killed anywhere, that all work in that area should be immediately suspended until the cause of the death can be identified. This is part of the Duty of Care laws that exist. Once the problem is identified and a solution to remedy the situation is in place then it's the best thing in the world to get workers back on the job as soon as possible.

Conversely, I believe that allowing workers a moment in time to collectively grieve and reflect is a good thing. This is something that soldiers are not given time to do in whilst engaged in conflict, and it explains why so many come back from war and conflict so messed up. This is usually a delayed reaction that can take 12 months to 20 years to manifest itself.

To create an analogy between soldiering and the construction industry may sound odd, but it is worth noting that Australia suffers most of it's workplace deaths in the construction industry. The figures for the last ten years have trebled those of our soliders that were killed during the Vietnam War. Construction work is a high risk industry, and by allowing workers such time to grieve their losses allows them and their bosses to remember that we are all human and that we should never take any worker or his/her life for granted. Many of these workers have families and dependants to support.

I hope that these thoughts give everybody something to reflect upon, and that nobody takes offence to what i have said.

I would like to come to the get together, but I will have to see how busy I am. Cheers. :cheers:

Hey guys,let's not quarrel or fight over this issue man.What i can say is let's be happy that we are able to see this building to grow and complete.Just ignore the delay yo!
I personally love this building alot and I've been staring at Big E grow ever since i came to Melbourne on my first year that is 2002:D

Eureka unites us, because we share the love of architecture and skyscrapers.

It's too easy to focus on what divides us. Too many things get misconstrued via email and any differences are usually exaggerated beyond actual reality.

Let's focus on Eureka it's our shared passion. I love logging onto this site and getting updates on Eureka, you guys do such a great job.

Channel 9 Today show this morning had a very thinly disguised ad for Eureka. Perpetuated the myth that Eureka is the world's tallest residential building with no mention at all of Q1's claim to the title.

Featured Daniel Grollo who even went so far as to drop the word residential and refer to Eureka as the world's tallest building!

Before you all start to flame me, I acknowledge the debate over which is tallest and that the answer is different depending on which measure you use, however this is just another example of TV networks only telling part of the story.

How much better would it be if they acknowledged that Australia had two buildings under construction at the moment both laying claim to the title?

not many options of where to put your ikea lounge and home entertainment system on a stick.

not many options of where to put your ikea lounge and home entertainment system on a stick.

???????????????

i'm refering to the spire on q1.

Channel 9 Today show this morning had a very thinly disguised ad for Eureka. Perpetuated the myth that Eureka is the world's tallest residential building with no mention at all of Q1's claim to the title.

Before you all start to flame me, I acknowledge the debate over which is tallest and that the answer is different depending on which measure you use, however this is just another example of TV networks only telling part of the story.


I am sorry but I am reading about this boring debate since I started participating in this forum. First of all I would like to say that I am not Australian and therefore do not even care that much which building claims which title, I like anything that is high and nice architecture.
But seriously, the debate over whether a spire on top of a building makes the actual building higher is purely academic.
Common sense definately - and nobody, nobody in the whole wide wooooooorld can deny it - tells you that eureka is higher. sorry. but if i shave my head and lose my spikey hair ... am I smaller? Is my house 15.60 high because I have a 7meter antenna on top of it ?
I dont know guys, but this seems like a fight of emotions rather than a fight about who is right or wrong.
... just a little comment from a foreigner who is enjoying both melbourne and brisbane/queensland

Eureka *will* be the worlds tallest residential tower.
Why would they tell people that Q1 will take the title sortly after that?

When they finished Petronas they didn't advertise that something in Taiwan would eventually overtake it.

Eureka *will* be the worlds tallest residential tower.
Why would they tell people that Q1 will take the title sortly after that?

When they finished Petronas they didn't advertise that something in Taiwan would eventually overtake it.
i think its all got to do with both being apartment towers and being built simultaneously!

Yeah its like all cars or toothpaste brands or whatever are the best if you listen to who is selling it. Its all marketing hype.

I for on would love to be in Melbourne for this meet,not to beat anyones head in,same as Favco just to let you guys or girls? see my hands,arms,legs,back and face covered in cuts and scars from many years helping my workmates construct the buildings you people like to toss your selves over.I have had many a close call over the years and am still lucky to be here.My father lived and died in the construction industry building dams,powerstations and highrises that we all benefit from,The construction family is very close ive worked on jobs with 400 other men and would be on first name basis with most,everyone knows everyone,can you officejockies say the same,so when a WORKMATE is lost we feel it so to anyone who has said no disrespect in their post you can shove it where it fits

Fair enuff FAVELLE, well said, a bit more respect for those who make the buildings we all love guys. W e all know they may be shifty every now and then but who cant, on a whole the Unions and Construction workers do a great job, KEEP IT UP BOYS! :)

Everybody seems to agree that there is shifty business taking place every now and again, but the shifty business is not industry wide. We as taxpayers just spent over $60million to pay for royal commisioner Cole to fly around Australia 23 times with his entourage for what???? What has been the outcome of all this expense??? There have been two charges laid and out of how many people, and how big an industry???
Look at the outcomes of some of our Royal Commisions into the coppers, usually recovers truckloads of information etc etc etc.

I think the reason there seems to be an arguement in opinions here is two fold. On one hand, there is definately a generational gap or at least a biggish age difference in the combatants. In the blue corner, we have teenagers and early 20's, single (hopefully so they can have heaps of fun still) young men who are still studying or just starting out in the workforce, obviously keen on at least the aesthetics, if not the workings of our wonderful and not so wonderful buildings. It may be work based for some, or even just a relationship with something so phallic and masculine in a world that seems so scared to be a bloke; to not shave today 'cause you couldn't be bothered, to have to spend $129 on a bloody tee-shirt and to whistle at a good looking chick walking down the street.
And in the red corner, we seem to have the exact opposite, men with families, wearing volleys because we always have, employed, blue collar by background and/or choice, blokes interested in buildings because we build them or at least respect the effort that goes into it. It is a very pleasing feeling to be able to point to several buildings in a couple of different cities around the place and to tell my son that Daddy built that.
So a few subtle differences between people, and an ecclectic mix of people makes for interesting debate. Cross that with typical youthful knowledge "everything" with older and maybe wiser knowledge "wife knows everything" and we have the opportunity through anominity to get fair stuck into it. Bring it on. Don't be scared of saying what you feel, if you have an opinion, voice it. It is your right to do so thanks to our previous generations struggles, fights and joys.
Don't however forget that there will always be someone who knows more about a topic than you. Enjoy the experience.
And don't ever think that life is a commodity that can be traded. Until you have to pull your workmates out of life and death situations, when you have given mouth to mouth to a big ugly sweaty hairy guy and saved him, been to train accidents, truck wrecks, crane tip overs, well maybe then you have earned the right to talk about life v's death at work.
Nobody needs to die at work. Not coppers, soldiers, anyone. Not a war needs to be fought if greed could take a back seat, but alas, fight on we will. So to have the opinion that risk factor of a job excludes my employers obligations towards my life is bullshit.
I can speak for myself and Favelle at least, where our jobs (crane erection) would be one of the highest risk in the building industry and declare that if anyone thinks that we have less of a right to live than another human, please say it out loud.
I don't want extra headjobs for doing my job, I just want what I deserve. Money, respect and the right to go home to my family with all my fingers and toes.

It just doesn't get any more simpler than that.

Q1 will look taller

lol E vs Q for the 500th time!!!(this year)

And my view is still unchanged. The spire isnt couned because it is not a significant structure, the fin does count because it is a significant structure. The roof height, however is only 235m?

Eureka clearly wins, and im sorry but theres no denying it.

btw, Q1 looks alot taller than Eureka from the photos so far... no idea why!

Possibly because it is not surrounded by buildings which have substantial height, ie. Rialto, 120 Collins etc etc but i would say that is why, because ur right Q1 looks way bigger in photo's than Eureka even tho Eureka is bigger, ahhh well they are both great buildings either way, but one of them has to win, and for mine that is the one and only EUREKA TOWER!!!! :)

On one hand, there is definately a generational gap or at least a biggish age difference in the combatants.

I think that also was obvious from the earlier part of the discussion, where one of your messages (something like "I can't wait to meet you at the meet") was misinterpreted as a threat. Its easy to imagine that phrase implying something quite different in the mindset of a 20-year-old, as compared to someone in their 30's or 40's.

Money, respect and the right to go home to my family with all my fingers and toes. It just doesn't get any more simpler than that.

Well said. Maybe people here have forgotten that about 400 workers die in the course of their work every year in Australia, with a large proportion of those in the construction industry. Comments about how things are different in desk-bound workforces simply do not compare -- safety must be paramount in *any* work environment, but when it comes to a construction site this is a no-brainer. I haven't seen anyone die in the course of 10 years working with computers :-)

Thanks Phi1ip, it's good to know there is some sense in what I was saying. We all must pray we don't go down the same track as our USA mates/??? 'cause they kill about 6 blokes a day. You are correct in your interpretation of comment, I can see a double edged sword in the same sentence, but if I was that keen on a blue, I wouldn't be hanging around a website to get it!!!!

Let Common sense prevail and the skyscrapers of tomorrow will be buily today for yesterdays price..... (Is this a dream or reality????.................)

hey whats the thing with james hardie and people walking of the job in protest?

hey whats the thing with james hardie and people walking of the job in protest?

James Hardie was committed to pay about $1.5 billion in compensation to tens of thousands of workers exposed to asbestos in Hardie's construction products many of whom have developed asbestos-related diseases (many of which are terminal). The previous CEO tried to wriggle out of payment by restructuring the company, transferring almost all of the assets to the Netherlands, and leaving the Australian company as a façade which he knew would fall over bankrupt as soon as the claims started coming in.

IMO this is one of the most disgusting and blatant attempts by a company to weasel out of their obligations, namely a duty of care to their employees, and the people who marched yesterday were justifiably angry!

^ ditto

so jH himself has nothing to do with it?

so jH himself has nothing to do with it?

James Hardie founded one of the original companies (James Hardie Industries is its successor) back in the 19th Century, so funnily enough, he *himself* has nothing to do with it... :)

The main guy is the previous CEO, Peter MacDonald - he's now in *big* trouble for committing such a gross fraud!

Regards, Philip

Very interesting stuff guys......Favco, Im right behind you mate. My boss is my partner and that is really difficult, not because we see eachother alot, but because I have to keep reminding him that his staff are not machines, they are human beings who operate machines. And the fact that someone is taking what you said earlier to be a threat just goes to show how the world is becoming one big politically correct disaster.
As for James Hardie Industries, that is disgusting, but then again, we do live in a world where a dollar is sadly often worth more than a life.

I see this threat sh..t as a dead issue. I went to the meet, met a group of good blokes, swapped some stories over a few drinks and went home early, leave the partying up to the young ones, 'cause I gotta be at work at 5 tomorrow morning. My number one admirer didn't show but it seems he is pretty keen on the sainters and they are playing a do or die footy final, so next time.

The James Hardie dispute is a large one and Australia wide. There was a rally this week, but the attendees don't get paid to go. And it was Australia wide as well. There is an easy solution for JH to get out of this, and that is to admit liability (ie - tell the truth) and pay due and just compensation for their wrong doings. That is not rocket science, it is just the right thing to do.

And you are 100% right about political correctness. It is a phonemenon invented by people who otherwise would be too weak to make it in the world of their own backs.