Innovative high rise would tower 80 storeys

By David Carrigg
Staff Writer - Van Courier - Sept. 12/04

WHAT'S 800-FEET TALL, occupies a full city block, has a titanium clamshell theatre at the base and thousands of feet of high-tensile steel cable running at an angle from top to street-level to make it look like a harp?

The answer is the Fringe Building, the latest design proposal for the Downtown Eastside from developer Stephen Hynes and architect Arthur Erickson.

Hynes and Erickson previously worked together on the landmark Copper Building on the 1500-block of West 6th Avenue and the Waterfall Building on the 1700-block of West 1st Avenue.

The focus of thoe projects, and of the Fringe Building, is style based on function to encourage interaction among residents in the live/work projects.

Hynes is critical of the marketing efforts of traditional condos developers, who promise a life of contentment, based on interior shots of the units and photos of people having fun outside the building.

"There is a profound difference between what people are told and what developers actually end up doing," he said.

Hynes hopes the Fringe Building will not only challenge the way structures are designed, but also the way they are conceived and marketed.

"Normally you design the building, then get the development permit, then go to the land registry and get the building permit, then market it and build it," he said. "What Arthur and I want to do with the Fringe Building is speak to the people who would buy into it and ask what they want. Get their input and then design. It would be a revolution in the way design occurs in the urban context."

The Vancouver Fringe Festival has already expressed interest in the project. Its desire for a large theatre space would be accomodated in the clamshell theatre in the bottom of the building. Another 300-seat theatre would be located at the top and each of the building's 800-units would be two levels, with shared stairways leading into the work space and private entries for the living space.

"The wiring from the top of the building would be anchored on the street and used for lighting the theatre below and to suspend a rain tarp if it's needed," Hynes said.

Several blocks in the Downtown Easide could be used for the 80-storey project, which Hynes hopes will be built in time for the 2010 Winter Olympics. But the philosophically inclined developer faces a major hurdle.

The city's tall building guidelines restrict building height to 600 feet. Tall buildings can only be built in one section of the downtown core and must not block the city's designated view corridors.

Michael Gordon, senior city planner, said containing high-rise buildings to one section of the city ensures the skyline is domed and not disjointed. Hynes wants to see tall building policy overhauled.

On Sept. 21, Hillside Developments, the company Hynes owns, will host a forum at the Emily Carr Institute of Art and Design examining how surroundings determine who we are and how space affects behaviour. The forum, which is part of the Fringe Festival, will include Erickson, architect Bing Thom, and Councillor Jim Green.

That would rock and could easly become an international land mark like the sydney opera house. I really hope that gets build and better if its befor 2010.

Wow...that would be fabulous!!! I want to see renderings!

Why are the so heelbent on making it 800 feet? In my gut I know that an 800 footer wont be approved in Vancouver. But if they were to try to build maybe a 700' or 650' building, they might have a better chance of having their way.

Sounds like the developers are a bunch of free thinking hippies.

80-storeys eh? When I first read this thread I thought I saw "80-storey Sapphire Tower Planned for Toronto Will Have Vancouver Feel."

I then took me awhile to realize that this was really planned for Vancouver. I thought I must be seeing things or misread it the first time as I never thought Vancouver would get a 80-storey proposal. Anyway.... Way to go Vancouver!

Why are the so heelbent on making it 800 feet? In my gut I know that an 800 footer wont be approved in Vancouver. But if they were to try to build maybe a 700' or 650' building, they might have a better chance of having their way.

Sounds like the developers are a bunch of free thinking hippies.

That's Arthur Erickson you're talking to.....i think this building would surely revitalize Hastings/Downtown Eastside and would be one of the most distinctive new landmarks in the world - maybe Erickson this should be enough reason for the city to approve it.

besides, if it was in the eastside, they will proabably aprrove, its just if it was downtown then people would be complaining cause of views. But, people who live downtown, what if they live on a floor that is lower and they have another building infront that blocks out the view of the mountains, but then what the hell is the point of a height restriction?? Only certain ppl can see the views and they are millionaires, literally! Only ppl with over a million dollars get views of the mountains. I think, WHy have aheight restriction when most ppl living downtown cant see the views anyway?

Does anyone have a skyline shot of the "east side"

ha. The east side doesnt really have a skyline, just science world and a couple condos.

it would be built somewhere here:

http://img35.exs.cx/img35/6339/80s.jpg

80 Storeys AND Arthur Erickson as the architect - great news!

I approve of it being built. 'Nuff said.
lol.
That would be cool though. Come on, you gotta build UP sometime...why not now while Vancouver is still realitivly 'low'?

Imagine one of those cables snapped and hit you in the face? That would sting if you lived through it.

^Haha, would the building actually have harp cables?

Wouldn't an 800 footer do the same thing to Vancouver's skyline as the CN Tower does to Toronto's? That is, make it appear smaller than it really is?

Nonetheless. Go Vancouver. This is awesome news.

besides, if it was in the eastside, they will proabably aprrove, its just if it was downtown then people would be complaining cause of views. But, people who live downtown, what if they live on a floor that is lower and they have another building infront that blocks out the view of the mountains, but then what the hell is the point of a height restriction?? Only certain ppl can see the views and they are millionaires, literally! Only ppl with over a million dollars get views of the mountains. I think, WHy have aheight restriction when most ppl living downtown cant see the views anyway?

The height restrictions are in place to retain views of the mountains from points like Mount Pleasant, and Queen Elizabeth Park etc...NOT the residents of downtown.

Wouldn't an 800 footer do the same thing to Vancouver's skyline as the CN Tower does to Toronto's? That is, make it appear smaller than it really is?

Nonetheless. Go Vancouver. This is awesome news.

It will dwarf the skyline, especially (judging by the pic) since its on the east side. Well, maybe not... I duno.

re: cassius

once shangri-la (642ft)...plus the if the supposed application for another 600+ footer on Georgia goes through (a big "if"), I don't think that will really be that much of a concern...

Will Vancouver's skyline ever reflect its title as the third biggest and most important city in Canada, and the most important in the west?

Will Vancouver's skyline ever reflect its title as the third biggest and most important city in Canada, and the most important in the west?

:runaway:

Just skimming through, making this quick as I am on campus -

Totally agree on the Toronto theory - it would dominate the skyline outside of the central cone/bubble of highrises further towards the centre of the city...Maybe the placement of the building would create a new high restriction (or in this case increase) surrounding it, allowing further growth. Or it could be a focal point of lasting impression - the harp and clamshell theme would really tie into both the arts and the coast location of Vancouver.

And I laughed out load in the library on reading the "what-if" on cable snapping. :lol:

800 feet is huge. Absolutley huge.... :eek2:

...what about the height limits? They're fairly strict.

any kind of development (besides parking lots) is good for the downtown eastide.I hope city council looks at this proposal with an open mind because stunning architecture can lure hordes of tourists in which could drive the crackheads out.The buildings in that area are actually quite historic and detailed and if all of them were restored it would be alot like gastown.
I'm going to go to a panel discussion next week about urban planning in Vancouver at Emily Carr and the development company plannig the tower
plus Aurthor Erickson as well as Bing Thom are all going to be there so it should be pretty damn good

I seriously doubt it will be approved at 800ft. Furthermore, they are going to be in for a real treat when it comes time to decide how to best execute the sentiments of several hundred future tenants. Such arrangements almost universally result in conservative and compromised architecture. They would be better off doing the more typical thing, which is designing the structure and common spaces, and selling the tenants "blank" units, where they are free to design the interiors as they see fit.

lol, something i found at Skyscraperpage, of course it's not the rendering though it should be taller:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/mackeast/harpcity.jpg

The height restrictions are in place to retain views of the mountains from points like Mount Pleasant, and Queen Elizabeth Park etc...NOT the residents of downtown.

screw that, if you wanna see the mountains go to Stanley Park, English bay, jerricho Beach, spanish Banks, etc. Jesus, its just mountians!;)

any kind of development (besides parking lots) is good for the downtown eastide.I hope city council looks at this proposal with an open mind because stunning architecture can lure hordes of tourists in which could drive the crackheads out.The buildings in that area are actually quite historic and detailed and if all of them were restored it would be alot like gastown.
I'm going to go to a panel discussion next week about urban planning in Vancouver at Emily Carr and the development company plannig the tower
plus Aurthor Erickson as well as Bing Thom are all going to be there so it should be pretty damn good

Yes but, people will avoid the building because the area it is in.

any kind of development (besides parking lots) is good for the downtown eastide.I hope city council looks at this proposal with an open mind because stunning architecture can lure hordes of tourists in which could drive the crackheads out.The buildings in that area are actually quite historic and detailed and if all of them were restored it would be alot like gastown.
I'm going to go to a panel discussion next week about urban planning in Vancouver at Emily Carr and the development company plannig the tower
plus Aurthor Erickson as well as Bing Thom are all going to be there so it should be pretty damn good

Yes but, people will avoid the building because the area it is in. :runaway:

lol, something i found at Skyscraperpage, of course it's not the rendering though it should be taller:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/mackeast/harpcity.jpg

Look, you can see the mountains just fine!! What are people complaining about!

The solution to the downtown east side problum is to develope if you have people with jobs and money living in the eastside the drug problum will go away because there will be more people that woulnt stand for people selling crack. You dont have a big bum problum on the westside where people are rich.

Ha, that skyline shot is awesome!

The solution to the downtown east side problum is to develope if you have people with jobs and money living in the eastside the drug problum will go away because there will be more people that woulnt stand for people selling crack. You dont have a big bum problum on the westside where people are rich.


That's right. Most times, gentrification is a good thing. And the one surefire way to encourage it, is to ease the zoning restrictions for a while to make the area very lucrative to developers. Where the promise of profits are, they will surely follow.

Look, you can see the mountains just fine!! What are people complaining about!

the harp isn't to scale, it should be 20% taller.

What a beautiful building - it would be incredibley unique in the world (from what I know) - If the building honestly looks along the lines of the image below, how could council NOT approve it?

IMHO, I think that if constructed, it would rival the Bank of Hong Kong, or the duo Hong Kong Trade Centre buildings in terms of uniqueness and complexity!

:cucumber: Go Vancouver!! :cucumber:

80 storey - I'll wager it is closer to 1000 feet than to 800

80 storey - I'll wager it is closer to 1000 feet than to 800

holy carp, that's just a little less than 1/4th the height of Grouse Mountain.

I don't know...that doesn't look too good. Of course better renderings will come, but so far I'm in between. Looks a little out of place, but I'm sure once Shangri-la is up it won't stick out so much.

that's not a rendering, that's just what someone else did for fun and to see how tall it will be though its not that accurate.

that...looks...so....ugly!!! :eek2:

that...looks...so....ugly!!! :eek2:

It looks like a giant whale attacking downtown Vancouver ;)

I don't know if its uglier then the Freedom tower, but god its ugly. Sorry, I think its ridiculous. Hopefully that isn't what its going to look like.

What the hell? A harp...

Uh, didnt you guys read the article?

I don't think people read articles anymore. They want the immediate gratification that comes with checkin' out dem purdy piktures...

I don't think people read articles anymore. They want the immediate gratification that comes with checkin' out dem purdy piktures...

Damn right ;) :cheers:

Damn right ;) :cheers:


:cheers:

It will definatly be a defining canadain landmark rivaling the CN Tower because so many citys have look out towers but a huge musical instrument, WOW. They should make it functional.

Like i said, crazyjoeda, did you read the article? We arent going to have a harp, trumpet, guitar or kazoo on the skyline. Sorry dude. Just the building will have cables to support it, much like a harp.

I would think that something like this would be a little more appropriate as an example, only as a building and not a bridge.

http://users.pandora.be/JochenGielen/T162001F5(Brug).jpg

Spot on Jada! Not only did you put it together nicely but you also provided a visual aid for those that can't be bothered reading what you wrote.

It will definatly be a defining canadain landmark rivaling the CN Tower because so many citys have look out towers but a huge musical instrument, WOW. They should make it functional.

I strongly doubt it will rival the CN Tower but it will provide visitors with one hell of a view! ;)

i agree, the CN tower was built long ago, It will take a while Before people can recognize the harp building and get to know it. So many ppl know and "love" the CN Tower, that it'll be hard to rival. But who knows.

Great news for Vancouver!

I just wish they would build this in Edmonton considering that the Fringe is one of Edmonton's best festivals as well as being the largest of its kind in North America.

The pic above makes me ask a million dollar question.

If you could play the bridge, what would it sound like?

How come this isnt on Emporis?

http://img77.exs.cx/img77/5404/harp.jpgSo Then It Could Look This.

And I ment rival in uniqueness. It would likely have the same noteority as the Montreal Olympic stadium. CN Tower would be very hard to beat.

Great news. Sounds like it would be the perfect addition to Vancouver's skiyline.

How come this isnt on Emporis?

a bit too soon, there's hardly an info on the project.....needs to become an official proposal, maybe in the coming months.

...The pic above makes me ask a million dollar question.

If you could play the bridge, what would it sound like?
Good Question!

I'm inclined to say a harp due to the number of cables and its obvious resemblance to one, but I'm thinking of a much deeper tone, somewhere between a bass and a foghorn, though still able to hit the upper octaves and with a richer sound like a xylophone. So, maybe a Cambodian roneat?


Like i said, crazyjoeda, did you read the article? We arent going to have a harp, trumpet, guitar or kazoo on the skyline...
I'd give up half of Toronto's skyline for a giant condo kazoo.

It's on emporis now.
http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=215100

I'm not sure this should be listed on Emporis just yet... Anyone remember that NHL guy awhile back who planned to built the WTB in Kansas City? Very few details, no physical address, but it was listed anyway. It turned out to be a publicity stunt. They had to remove the building, and it was a rare embarrasement to Skyscrapers.Com. If their goal is to become highly professional and accurate, to justify the $1000 membership, then buildings like this should not be added.

I think this is more of a vision type of proposal then a serious proposal.

Where would this building be in relation to the Wall Ctr?

CDragon

I agree that it shouldnt be listed quite yet but its only 233m not that unlikely that it or some lower version of it will be built. I think it would be rad but I want to see a real rendering and a the effect on the skyline. The trend is up for Vancouver. They need like 6 600-850ft buildings.


Where would this building be in relation to the Wall Ctr?
Several building sites are available but none has yet been selected.

I agree that it shouldnt be listed quite yet but its only 233m not that unlikely that it or some lower version of it will be built. I think it would be rad but I want to see a real rendering and a the effect on the skyline. The trend is up for Vancouver. They need like 6 600-850ft buildings.



Several building sites are available but none has yet been selected.

Exactly. It should not be listed at S.Com at least until a building site is selected.

This would be extremely good for a city I'm very fond of...Excellent news for Vancouver.

Would this officialy become the tallest building in Canada, outside Toronto?

still seems so unlikey

Yes, I agree, sorta hard to believe eh? If it was build it would be the tallest building in Canada after the Trump and Saphire tower.

^ no, it wouldn't.

The scotia tower and BOM in TO would still be at least a hundred feet taller.

still it seem more the product of a ill visions and slow news day

^ no, it wouldn't.

The scotia tower and BOM in TO would still be at least a hundred feet taller.

the Fringe tower in Van is 80 stories..

ummmm, what does that matter, it is still 800ft...making it smaller than FCP, Scotia and CTT

Wow. I didnt know that. Thanks lol. Thats sad, the fringe tower is only 800 ft..

Yeah man, the floor count has nothing to do with height. Take a look at Tapei 101 for example. Tallest building in the world, nearly 1700 feet yet its only 101 floors. John Hancock centre in Chicago, same amount of floors, but its 1127 feet, 600 feet, a shangri-la shorter!

Residential floor to celing heights are far different from office floor to celing heights.

Residential floor to celing heights are far different from office floor to celing heights.

And Taipei 101 has a gigantic spire...

^ Cheaters! One day the CTBUH will eventually only consider roof height if this non-stop cheating keeps up.

Why are the so heelbent on making it 800 feet? In my gut I know that an 800 footer wont be approved in Vancouver. But if they were to try to build maybe a 700' or 650' building, they might have a better chance of having their way.

Or the developer is deliberately coming in at a greater height so that he can say that there was compromise made when the city chops 100-200 ft. off the building and the building goes ahead in spite of local opposition...

Are there any renders about on this proj?

http://mikey.servebeer.com/images/fringe_towers.jpg

Tried to draw my own as to see what the building height would be, I THINK I got it right :P

^ Now that's a disaster. It's just like putting the CN Tower in Montreal!

^Seems too tall..

It looks seriously wrong. I say Vancouver should stick with 30-40 storey towers, and ignore some huge megalomaniac tower such as that one above.

Its to tall but after the Shangri-la is built and the height will be obviusly be lowered it will look pretty good of course I want to see a real rendering first. I dont think it will be a gold colour and the height in that unoffical redering is not 244m it looks more like 300m+.

It looks seriously wrong. I say Vancouver should stick with 30-40 storey towers, and ignore some huge megalomaniac tower such as that one above.
No way! People are complaing that Vancouver has nothing but 30-40 towers, we need 800 ft Buildings!

WOW! That looks freakishly wrong... just plain WRONG!!

Yah that one did look bad.

Hahahaha looks like I made it too tall and ugly, I just went with the harp and drew it from the top 20% taller.

Of course this is nothing like what the building will look like because no one knows, but if they want to build 800 feet here they'll have to design something that looks way beyond amazing.

Well at least you did a tower, and not a harp.

I seriously doubt this building will ever get approved. I would almost bet money on it. If it does get approved, I am sure they will have to go to the drawing board at least once to gain approval from the city.

Some people take the harp discription too literally.

They need to add the proposed 1200ft mermaid beside the harp. :nuts:

No way!!!! Imagine the 2IFC in Vancouver.

They need to add the proposed 1200ft mermaid beside the harp. :nuts:


lol! good one.

Is this project dead in the water now? Its been ages since its been commented upon.

http://mikey.servebeer.com/images/fringe_towers.jpg

Tried to draw my own as to see what the building height would be, I THINK I got it right :P
wouldnt that building look so much bettin if it was more inside the downtown core, instead of in the outskirts? Maybe it it was a bit smaller too though.

No it wouldn't look better there. It's too tall! Where it is planned now also completely ruins the concept for a domed skyline which Vancouver has and is working so hard for. I really hope it doesn't get built.

I have been thinking about NYC and how the Empire State Building looks kind of alone in its location with such shorter towers around it...it looks fine to me, but in this case, the Vancouver tower would be surrounded by structures as high as a mere 6 stories (heritage buildings/warehouses, etc), so in this case, it would look out of place there! Unless of course, numerous condo towers would be built in the vicinity....

God, its still as ugly as it was on September 15th, 2004.

Thats a bad rendering! Please, nobody make anymore your insulting the skyline even more.

As for the height though, I don't think a taller building will look bad on the skyline. It may stand out but it will still look good. Check out this skyline from Shenzhen, China. Similar situation. This is the direction Vancouver is going, it's like looking into the future.

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/572/7183200548123644205.jpg

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/572/7183shenzhen.jpg

yeah, that could work....and the second tallest building in those pics would be like Shangri-la.

Imagine having lasers on this building for the nightly 2010 fireworks and laser show at False Creek....and imagine having the Olympic flame atop the building.

Slurrey...any chance you can include Shangri-la as well as Melville, 1133 West Georgia and 801 West Georgia in your rendering? Let's see how this tower looks with the other taller towers Vancouver will get...see how it balances.

how likely is it that this tower will get built? is it just a vision? it seems un realistic that the city would allow this kind of height

According to this page >>Fringe Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/bu/sk/li/?id=100997&bt=2&ht=2&sro=1) , it's in the 'Proposed' stage. To be completed by 2009.

I have my doubts. 80 floors is a huge leap for Vancouver. I can see a lot of public input and a big vote on the deal before anything really gets going.

According to this page >>Fringe Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/bu/sk/li/?id=100997&bt=2&ht=2&sro=1) , it's in the 'Proposed' stage. To be completed by 2009.

I have my doubts. 80 floors is a huge leap for Vancouver. I can see a lot of public input and a big vote on the deal before anything really gets going.

Well, if Erickson had proposed something like 55 floors instead of 80, the city would argue for him to get it down to something like 40 floors. Now that it's 80, he can argue for a 50 or 60 storey tower which is still extremely tall for the city.

^So he really isn't intending to get an 80 floor building eh? If he really wants 80 floors, he should have proposed 100 floors. :clown:

^So he really isn't intending to get an 80 floor building eh? If he really wants 80 floors, he should have proposed 100 floors. :clown:

no, anything more than 80 would be ridiculous in the city's mind. but i think we should talk about the height instead, not floors. 800 would argue for somewhere between 550 to 700.

If the Fringe Building were built, it would be 154 feet taller than the Living Shangri-La Building. Why would a city want a landmark skyscraper that looks like a harp?

If the Fringe Building were built, it would be 154 feet taller than the Living Shangri-La Building. Why would a city want a landmark skyscraper that looks like a harp?

For the same reason a city would like sheel , or even a space needle :)

woah. bringing one back from the dead huh? this was one of the first topics i ever posted in.

so i take it this will be done construction by the olympics?

I'm confused... is this an actual project, or was it just a proposal at one time?

I'm confused... is this an actual project, or was it just a proposal at one time?

This is a "stale" proposal. No news posted for almost a year.
Maybe someone can check with the city development department.

It's not even a proposal, it was a vision and will remain that.

I just don't see this thing being built in Vancouver. It looks like it would have a very large footprint and dramatically shift the city's skyline eastward.

no this was squashed a long time ago .

no this was squashed a long time ago .

lol, probably. though i read somewhere that it gets taller every year. Arthur Erickson wants it to be 84 stories tall....adding a floor each year to represent his age.:lol:

lol thats hope he lives to 110 and then changes the design . lol

^ It will have to twist on its way up too, since he is in his twisting phase.