I see lots of people say this on the web, yet Anaheim is apart of the LA metro area according to the government

Which is it?

It's not in the same county but It's pretty woven into Los Angeles

http://www.boatharbors.com/images/los_angeles_orange_county_marinas_map.jpg

Anaheim would be between Fullerton, Garden Grove and Orange.

Whatchutalkinbout, Dennis?

Whatchutalkinbout, Dennis?

I mean when I go to Orange county, I sometimes say that I'm in the LA area. The Locals get mad and say that Anaheim is not LA and that the OC is totally different.

I mean when I go to Orange county, I sometimes say that I'm in the LA area. The Locals get mad and say that Anaheim is not LA and that the OC is totally different.

Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim

I mean when I go to Orange county, I sometimes say that I'm in the LA area. The Locals get mad and say that Anaheim is not LA and that the OC is totally different.

Their freeway is wider and way more lavish but that's just about it

The Greater Los Angeles Area, or the Southland, is a term used for the Combined Statistical Area (a group of interacting metropolitan areas) sprawled over five counties in the southern part of California, namely Los Angeles County, Orange County, San Bernardino County, Riverside County and Ventura County. It has been one of the fastest growing regions in the United States for decades, first in Los Angeles County, then Orange County, and now in the Inland Empire. As of 2005, the official estimate of the population of the Los Angeles metropolitan area is more than 12.9 million, while in 2009 the larger five-county region had a population of over 17.6 million. Either definition makes it the second-largest core-based statistical area in the country, behind the New York metropolitan area.[2] The term "Southland" has also been used to refer to all of Southern California.[3]

First of all, not a good sign for Anaheim that they can't make it onto the map.

I think you can comfortably say that Anaheim is part of the LA area, as is all of the OC. Seriously, the LA Rams and LA Angels played in Anaheim. And to say that some in the OC distance themselves from LA doesn't mean much since many OC residents distance themselves from Anaheim as well.

But as we have discussed before, "LA" has different meanings in different contexts.

First of all, not a good sign for Anaheim that they can't make it onto the map.

I think you can comfortably say that Anaheim is part of the LA area, as is all of the OC. Seriously, the LA Rams and LA Angels played in Anaheim. And to say that some in the OC distance themselves from LA doesn't mean much since many OC residents distance themselves from Anaheim as well.

But as we have discussed before, "LA" has different meanings in different contexts.

Thanks. Because during the rumors of the Sacramento Kings moving to LA, I have heard the the team will be called the Los Angeles Royals, and some people in the OC claimed Anaheim is not LA and not a suburb of LA, and the team should be called the Anaheim Royals.

Are we just talking about Anaheim, or the OC as a whole? Orange County is definitely the LA area. Same market, same television channels, etc. But there are some pretty stark cultural and demographic differences.

Are we just talking about Anaheim, or the OC as a whole? Orange County is definitely the LA area. Same market, same television channels, etc. But there are some pretty stark cultural and demographic differences.

Orange county.

Speaking of Orange County ... . BAM! . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%203/rebecca-black-friday-video2.jpg SIMPLY THE GREATEST FUCKING THING TO EVER HAPPEN TO ME! . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%203/rebecca_black_justin_bieber.jpg . I THINK THESE TWO KIDS SHOULD MAKE BABIES ... RIGHT NOW! . THAT'S ANAHEIM'S OWN REBECCA BLACK AND THE NATION'S GREATEST SENSATION! WANT PROOF? . <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CD2LRROpph0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> YOUR ANAHEIM FRIENDS SHOULD BE PROUD!

milq: you have a genius for finding the news that I missed.

Cultural differences can also be found within the OC. South County people look upon Santa Ana as being hopelessly rundown and Fullerton as basically the same as Downey or other south LA county cities. Some North County look upon South County as rich, but no culture hicks, not really living in the city at all. Any group of 3M plus is going to have a range of attitudes.

milq: you have a genius for finding the news that I missed.

Cultural differences can also be found within the OC. South County people look upon Santa Ana as being hopelessly rundown and Fullerton as basically the same as Downey or other south LA county cities. Some North County look upon South County as rich, but no culture hicks, not really living in the city at all. Any group of 3M plus is going to have a range of attitudes.

So I guess Orange and Tustin look down on the larger cities huh.

When Disneyland opened in 1955, there were still orange groves between Anaheim and Los Angeles. Obviously, no more. What once was a nearby town, then became a suburb, is now definitely part of the L.A. area.

lol Orange County would not be what it thinks it is if it wasn't for LA. First of all there was NO Orange County till the turn of the past century when it was created out of the southern portion of LA County.

It is all Metropolitan LA, if they don't want to be part of it, how would they fend off on their own? They'd be like Monterrey and Santa Cruz with beautiful coasts, and a world famous amusement park. Which by the way, it was originally intended to be built north of Griffith Park where the Disney Buena Vista Studios are now, but they wanted part of the park and the City of Los Angeles said nope.
Walt used to take his kids to Griffith Park frequently since they lived close by, and his idea flourished from those visits.

I mean when I go to Orange county, I sometimes say that I'm in the LA area. The Locals get mad and say that Anaheim is not LA and that the OC is totally different.



I've been to L.A. 6 time in the last 6 years. Every time I go there, I like it more and more. However, Dennis, you have a point. We always stay with my wife's uncle in San Juan Capistrano in southern OC. NONE of the local people I've talked with consider Orange County as "L.A", or part of Greater Los Angeles. The always call it SoCal. They actually have disdain for L.A. and L.A County. Anyone know why? Is it just a affluent thing with them?

As for Anaheim, my wife's uncle is opening up a Buffalo Wild Wings near there. I wasn't too impressed with that town. It looked pretty scummy to tell you the truth.

It's not in the same county but It's pretty woven into Los Angeles

http://www.boatharbors.com/images/los_angeles_orange_county_marinas_map.jpg



Where the fuck is Anaheim? If you can't make it onto a map then bitch you don't need to be talkin'.

We always stay with my wife's uncle in San Juan Capistrano in southern OC. NONE of the local people I've talked with consider Orange County as "L.A", or part of Greater Los Angeles. The always call it SoCal. They actually have disdain for L.A. and L.A County. Anyone know why? Is it just a affluent thing with them?
The politics of the two counties couldn't be more different. Orange County, as a whole, is infamously regressive, as well as notoriously suburban-provincial. It attracts a very specific kind of individual, and he or she is likely to be behind the "Orange Curtain" for white-flight reasons. These are the people who insist that government money never be "wasted" on mass transit and that only the biggest and best freeways grace the landscape.

Walkable places like San Juan Capistrano are the exception in the county.

^^ That's ..... fuck, that's RIGHT! And bitch? Leave Disney alone! Don't bite the hand that made you! bitchaheim ...

lol Orange County would not be what it thinks it is if it wasn't for LA. First of all there was NO Orange County till the turn of the past century when it was created out of the southern portion of LA County.

It is all Metropolitan LA, if they don't want to be part of it, how would they fend off on their own? They'd be like Monterrey and Santa Cruz with beautiful coasts, and a world famous amusement park. Which by the way, it was originally intended to be built north of Griffith Park where the Disney Buena Vista Studios are now, but they wanted part of the park and the City of Los Angeles said nope.
Walt used to take his kids to Griffith Park frequently since they lived close by, and his idea flourished from those visits.

That's what I thought. People there clai otherwise but What is Irvine, Santa Ana, Huntington Beach without LA?

Where the fuck is Anaheim? If you can't make it onto a map then bitch you don't need to be talkin'.

Beverly Hills isn't on it either :D

That's what I thought. People there clai otherwise but What is Irvine, Santa Ana, Huntington Beach without LA?

Well, you could also rephrase the question and ask, if LA would be the same without the surrounding cities. Definitely not, since it's a kind of symbiosis.

Well, you could also rephrase the question and ask, if LA would be the same without the surrounding cities. Definitely not, since it's a kind of symbiosis.
Good Point. I guess they are codependent.

The politics of the two counties couldn't be more different. Orange County, as a whole, is infamously regressive, as well as notoriously suburban-provincial. It attracts a very specific kind of individual, and he or she is likely to be behind the "Orange Curtain" for white-flight reasons. These are the people who insist that government money never be "wasted" on mass transit and that only the biggest and best freeways grace the landscape.

Walkable places like San Juan Capistrano are the exception in the county.

I was thinking in more practical terms. Geography and distance from the city of L.A. allowed OC to develop independently. I wonder how people who live in Riverside/San Bernardino feel. Do they consider their are as "L.A."? Or just the Inland Empire outside the L.A. metro? I mean San Bernardino is some 60+ miles from the city of L.A. That would be like going from Chicago to Rockford, and I'm not so sure, most people in Rockford Il. feel that they are a part of "Greater Chicagoland"... Yet.

I was thinking in more practical terms. Geography and distance from the city of L.A. allowed OC to develop independently. I wonder how people who live in Riverside/San Bernardino feel. Do they consider their are as "L.A."? Or just the Inland Empire outside the L.A. metro? I mean San Bernardino is some 60+ miles from the city of L.A. That would be like going from Chicago to Rockford, and I'm not so sure, most people in Rockford Il. feel that they are a part of "Greater Chicagoland"... Yet.

I agree. Kane County has a lesse claim to chicagoland than OC to LA.

I know people from Perris to Oxnard claim LA.

Well, you could also rephrase the question and ask, if LA would be the same without the surrounding cities. Definitely not, since it's a kind of symbiosis.

I don't think I necessarily agree with this. That could have some truth NOW A DAYS, now that those communities have grown and become self sufficient and have developed some kind of identity. Now, they try not to identify themselves with the City that directly or indirectly created them.

Name me any surrounding City that lifts its brow towards LA and I will tell you how LA had something to do with its existence. Now, how much does LA depend from them? I don't think it's that significant.

Funny thing is that a lot of people, when they are abroad and are asked "so, where from California are you from?" there's no chance in hell they'll say "Anaheim" or "Rancho Cucamonga", or "Palos Verdes", etc. They will always say ..."LA".

Let's also try very hard to keep from equating suburbs with the central genesis of the area, and that would be the Pueblo. . Hollywood, as a defining force in American international representation, is still omnipotent, and ... if you want to be specific, the dominant identity of Anaheim was started in a garage on Hyperion in L. A., so, we can't really say Los Angeles is dependent on the qualities of these suburbs if the "center", or Pueblo, gives birth to them. Las Vegas wouldn't even be here if it weren't for a mobster from Los Angeles, a mobster who had designs on being in the movie business at that! And the population of Los Angeles is the leading economic force in Las Vegas today. So, you can see that Los Angeles is the Mother to these babies and they should suckle at our teet :) suck suck suck .. keep on sucking ..

I was thinking in more practical terms. Geography and distance from the city of L.A. allowed OC to develop independently. I wonder how people who live in Riverside/San Bernardino feel. Do they consider their are as "L.A."? Or just the Inland Empire outside the L.A. metro? I mean San Bernardino is some 60+ miles from the city of L.A. That would be like going from Chicago to Rockford, and I'm not so sure, most people in Rockford Il. feel that they are a part of "Greater Chicagoland"... Yet.

Obviously the other four counties are part of Greater LA. The OC people you speak of are in denial. That being said, "LA" refers to LA County only. No one from OC or the IE would ever say they're from LA. They feel like different worlds.

Originally, there was only Los Angeles County.

San Bernardino County was the next division. Then, Orange County separated from L.A. County, and Riverside County separated from S.B. County. So, that history actually describes the cultural layout of southern California rather well.

San Bernardino, Los Angeles, and San Diego were sufficiently separated from each other in order to be distinct metropolises that functioned as maritime ports and/or rail hubs. These three big cities also had their own nexuses of streetcar lines in the respective cores.

Things started changing with the freeway system, which facilitated the suburban sprawl that characterizes almost all of Orange County today. Agrarian lands gave way to auto-dependent housing subdivisions mostly for people who were already living in closer-in areas of Los Angeles. This very act of decentralization revealed the tension since jobs were still in one place while housing shifted to another. Over the years, Orange County corrected this imbalance, and now the area is job-rich. There still is no sense of a center, though, outside of Los Angeles, which has land use that is orders of magnitude more intense than anything in the southern county.

Many Orange County residents are just fine with this situation, and they actually are proud of the fact that they avoid even setting foot in L.A. County, which they detest for its mix of incomes, urban character, and liberal politics.

With the rise of the automobile and the airliner and the decline of passenger rail, San Bernardino started losing its viability and job-housing balance, and growth started being concentrated in Los Angeles since the freeway system enabled workers to live farther and farther away from job centers. Cities like Riverside, Redlands, and Ontario revolved around San Bernardino, and when the core started to die, the entire Inland Empire region suffered. Almost all of this phenomenon is attributable to the freeway system, which still exerts a tremendous influence over development patterns. So, while San Bernardino, the original core, is 55-60 miles away from Los Angeles, now, the western side of San Bernardino County has received the robust job growth and housing growth that spilled across the L.A. County border and moved eastward. In a similar way, the west side of Riverside County now feels like an extension of Orange County.

Interestingly, the western S.B. County cities of Ontario, Montclair, Rancho Cucamonga, and Upland are now more job-rich than even Orange County. And, now, the Inland Empire, which expects a million new residents over the next few years, intends to direct them into the former core, San Bernardino, as well as into the surrounding satellite cities that will be connected by an elaborate system of new and existing fixed-guideway modes of public transportation. So, things are starting to return back to normal. And, when Anaheim is linked to Los Angeles by high-speed rail soon, the relationship between the two cities will become even clearer.

Let's also try very hard to keep from equating suburbs with the central genesis of the area, and that would be the Pueblo. . Hollywood, as a defining force in American international representation, is still omnipotent, and ... if you want to be specific, the dominant identity of Anaheim was started in a garage on Hyperion in L. A., so, we can't really say Los Angeles is dependent on the qualities of these suburbs if the "center", or Pueblo, gives birth to them. Las Vegas wouldn't even be here if it weren't for a mobster from Los Angeles, a mobster who had designs on being in the movie business at that! And the population of Los Angeles is the leading economic force in Las Vegas today. So, you can see that Los Angeles is the Mother to these babies and they should suckle at our teet :) suck suck suck .. keep on sucking ..


I totally forgot about Vegas, another great example.

I agree. Kane County has a lesse claim to chicagoland than OC to LA.

I know people from Perris to Oxnard claim LA.


Actually, Kane County definitely considers itself Chicagoland. Elgin and Aurora are always called suburbs of Chicago, My cousin lives in Elgin, and I never here him say that his area is not part of Chicagoland.... Rockford on the otherhand, is in Winnebago County further out and separated by about 15-20 miles of rural land from urbanized Chicagoland. The distance from Chicago is about the same as San Bernardino is from the city of L.A. (actually a bit closer than that).



Obviously the other four counties are part of Greater LA. The OC people you speak of are in denial. That being said, "LA" refers to LA County only. No one from OC or the IE would ever say they're from LA. They feel like different worlds.


Statistically, they are all part of metro L.A there is no question. I just found it interesting that eveyone I spoke with in OC says they are from SoCal rather than Greater L.A. I think geography place a big role in SoCal's regionalism. That doesn't really exist in Chicagoland for obvious reasons.

Statistically, they are all part of metro L.A there is no question. I just found it interesting that eveyone I spoke with in OC says they are from SoCal rather than Greater L.A. I think geography place a big role in SoCal's regionalism. That doesn't really exist in Chicagoland for obvious reasons.

I liken LA/OC to NY/NJ. Same metro area, different places altogether.

Transportation plays a big role in people's conception of place.

Orange County commuters who travel by Metrolink are probably more likely to claim they live in greater Los Angeles since most of the rail lines feed into L.A. Union Station.

Obviously the other four counties are part of Greater LA. The OC people you speak of are in denial. That being said, "LA" refers to LA County only. No one from OC or the IE would ever say they're from LA. They feel like different worlds.

I don't think this is quite right. If you meet people from SoCal in SF, London, NY, Germany, or wherever, they say they are from LA or "a suburb of LA" and when you ask where in LA they say, Placentia, Palmdale, Chino, Temecula, or whatever. This includes people from the OC and IE.

If you are in the OC talking to someone, then "LA" refers most commonly to the area between DT and Santa Monica. I would assume the same holds for other cities: when you are far away from home, you refer to the nearest large city; when near home, you get more specific.

There are many in the IE or OC who think of LA as a run-down, crowded, scary place, and like where they live much better. But this is true of people in the SFV, which is part of the City of LA, so I'm not sure if that proves much except people are different and generally partial to where they live.

In any event, as mentioned above, the IE and OC are definitely "the LA area"; whether they are "LA" depends on what is being clarified.

This is interesting. We don't have this problem here in Toronto so I like this discussion.

Actually, Kane County definitely considers itself Chicagoland. Elgin and Aurora are always called suburbs of Chicago, My cousin lives in Elgin, and I never here him say that his area is not part of Chicagoland.... Rockford on the otherhand, is in Winnebago County further out and separated by about 15-20 miles of rural land from urbanized Chicagoland. The distance from Chicago is about the same as San Bernardino is from the city of L.A. (actually a bit closer than that).






Statistically, they are all part of metro L.A there is no question. I just found it interesting that eveyone I spoke with in OC says they are from SoCal rather than Greater L.A. I think geography place a big role in SoCal's regionalism. That doesn't really exist in Chicagoland for obvious reasons.
Do you think rockford and Mke might join Chicagoland. I mean after this census, maybe it's time for the Chi and Mke to band together to compete?

^^ Dennis? You're a troublemaker. . It's the opposite for me here, Pest. If anyone ever asks me where I'm from, and I never offer it up unless I'm asked, then I say I'm from Hollywood. If they ever ask me which one, I look at them as if they were an insect and repeat myself.

Isn't L.A. one of the Disney worlds ? Adventureland, Tomorrowland, etc.....I like the L A one lots : )

I don't think I necessarily agree with this. That could have some truth NOW A DAYS, now that those communities have grown and become self sufficient and have developed some kind of identity. Now, they try not to identify themselves with the City that directly or indirectly created them.

Name me any surrounding City that lifts its brow towards LA and I will tell you how LA had something to do with its existence. Now, how much does LA depend from them? I don't think it's that significant.

Funny thing is that a lot of people, when they are abroad and are asked "so, where from California are you from?" there's no chance in hell they'll say "Anaheim" or "Rancho Cucamonga", or "Palos Verdes", etc. They will always say ..."LA".

That definitely has some truth, since we are not discussing history, but the situation as it is today. OC almost has as many inhabitants as the city of LA with a much higher density than LA county. You also have to take the per capita income into consideration, which is much higher in the surrounding counties. So stating LA is not depending on the counties around it is just bullshit. This is not how economy works.

^^ Dennis? You're a troublemaker. . It's the opposite for me here, Pest. If anyone ever asks me where I'm from, and I never offer it up unless I'm asked, then I say I'm from Hollywood. If they ever ask me which one, I look at them as if they were an insect and repeat myself.

Ouch:lol: I didn't mean to cause any. I honestly wanted to know, this is not a troll thread or anything of the sort.

Do you think rockford and Mke might join Chicagoland. I mean after this census, maybe it's time for the Chi and Mke to band together to compete?

Eventually. Probably not until the 2030 census will Rockford and the Milwaukee area see inter-metro commuter numbers reach levels were they would consolidate. Urbanization is basically non stop between Chicago to Milwaukee along the lakeshore, and almost non stop from our northwest suburbs to the Rockford area.

http://i55.tinypic.com/205cpzb.jpg


I suppose if not for Camp Pendleton, L.A. metro (OC) would reach San Diego. Completely urbanized. But who knows maybe the two urbanized areas will one day touch by way of the Inland Empire...

http://i54.tinypic.com/2iutik0.jpg


Btw, these maps I believe are from the 2000 census. Definitely not the 2010 census.

Eventually. Probably not until the 2030 census will Rockford and the Milwaukee area see inter-metro commuter numbers reach levels were they would consolidate. Urbanization is basically non stop between Chicago to Milwaukee along the lakeshore, and almost non stop from our northwest suburbs to the Rockford area.

http://i55.tinypic.com/205cpzb.jpg


I suppose if not for Camp Pendleton, L.A. metro (OC) would reach San Diego. Completely urbanized. But who knows maybe the two urbanized areas will one day touch by way of the Inland Empire...

http://i54.tinypic.com/2iutik0.jpg

Btw, these maps I believe are from the 2000 census. Definitely not the 2010 census.

That's intresting. LA is all urban from ventura to san clemente and out to hemet!

That definitely has some truth, since we are not discussing history, but the situation as it is today. OC almost has as many inhabitants as the city of LA with a much higher density than LA county. You also have to take the per capita income into consideration, which is much higher in the surrounding counties. So stating LA is not depending on the counties around it is just bullshit. This is not how economy works.

Should we really be comparing a county that is only 948 sq miles with one that is almost 5,000?

Should we really be comparing a county that is only 948 sq miles with one that is almost 5,000?

Actually it doesn't matter. The bottom line is, that there's a huge interdependency between LA and its surrounding counties.

Actually it doesn't matter. The bottom line is, that there's a huge interdependency between LA and its surrounding counties.

See I always thought that the uniqueness of L.A. is that much of the satellite cities and suburbs have been quite independent from the city of L.A. Hence, the old phrase "a hundred suburbs in search of a city" Maybe that has changed?

For us, up until very recently, almost all suburbs were nothing more than bedroom communities as people commuted, worked, and socialized in the city, while they went back home to the suburbs to sleep. Now Chicagoland has decentralized to the point where one does not need to drive into the city for anything.

^^ That's how it works. (What a trouble making thread!) As far as Los Angeles depending on surrounding cities or counties, that dependence is negligible. Of course there's interdependence, but, please ...

See I always thought that the uniqueness of L.A. is that much of the satellite cities and suburbs have been quite independent from the city of L.A. Hence, the old phrase "a hundred suburbs in search of a city" Maybe that has changed?

For us, up until very recently, almost all suburbs were nothing more than bedroom communities as people commuted, worked, and socialized in the city, while they went back home to the suburbs to sleep. Now Chicagoland has decentralized to the point where one does not need to drive into the city for anything.

Some truth to this, especially historically. Some people from LA moved out to the suburbs, but some people were already in relatively independent cities that were overwhelmed by outward expansion. There are suburbs that are more like bedroom communities and others that have a real historic core, some still vigorous, some small or stagnant.

Today, the area from DT to Santa Monica is becoming more like a real center city. But various urban nodes are still out there from Ventura to Riverside to San Diego with bedroom communities interspersed all over. I would expect this sort of mix is common among the emerging large metros.

I was thinking in more practical terms. Geography and distance from the city of L.A. allowed OC to develop independently. I wonder how people who live in Riverside/San Bernardino feel. Do they consider their are as "L.A."? Or just the Inland Empire outside the L.A. metro? I mean San Bernardino is some 60+ miles from the city of L.A. That would be like going from Chicago to Rockford, and I'm not so sure, most people in Rockford Il. feel that they are a part of "Greater Chicagoland"... Yet.

Yes, Riverside, SBDO, OC, much of Ventura County as well as the whole of LA County are all part of the Greater Los Angeles area. Parts of southern Orange County though closer to San Diego, are a part of Los Angeles. It is measured by the % of people who seek labor. If 25% of the residents for example are working in Anaheim [which is part of metro LA] or work in other parts of what are normally considered LA without question, then that place is considered to part of that metro area. It makes sense. Labor and Residence and where you belong make sense in this case. Riverside and San Bernardino as well as the whole of OC did not grow because of what they were. They grew due to the population explosion of Los Angeles and the spread for affordable tract housing. I know it is hard to believe sometimes, but we often think that miles/kilometers play a major role which is far from the truth. Within one Consolidated Statistical Metro Area, you may have several metro areas...which is what is mixing people up. In LA, there are metro areas such as Ventura/Oxnard, Los Angeles, Anaheim-Santa Ana, Riverside/San Bernardino which all form the consolidated area of Los Angeles with a population of some 18 million people. The same holds true north. San Fransisco and San Jose along with Oakland all form one CSMA which is often referred to as the Bay Area. Even though San Jose holds its own identity today, it hardly would have been what it is today had it not been for San Fransisco and people moving across the Bay Area looking for nicer homes, large lots etc. That is why it is still called the San Fransisco-San Jose-Oakland CSMA. Even though SF has lost a significant number of residents, it is still the SF area. In Vancouver BC, the same holds true as suburbs such as Surrey are directly threatening the surpass Vancouver [I haven't checked recently ..they may have already] but once again it will not become the Surrey Vancouver metro area. Surrey would have still been farms had it not been for Vancouverites seeking suburban housing.:) I hope I made some sense. :)

Yes, Riverside, SBDO, OC, much of Ventura County as well as the whole of LA County are all part of the Greater Los Angeles area. Parts of southern Orange County though closer to San Diego, are a part of Los Angeles. It is measured by the % of people who seek labor. If 25% of the residents for example are working in Anaheim [which is part of metro LA] or work in other parts of what are normally considered LA without question, then that place is considered to part of that metro area. It makes sense. Labor and Residence and where you belong make sense in this case. Riverside and San Bernardino as well as the whole of OC did not grow because of what they were. They grew due to the population explosion of Los Angeles and the spread for affordable tract housing. I know it is hard to believe sometimes, but we often think that miles/kilometers play a major role which is far from the truth. Within one Consolidated Statistical Metro Area, you may have several metro areas...which is what is mixing people up. In LA, there are metro areas such as Ventura/Oxnard, Los Angeles, Anaheim-Santa Ana, Riverside/San Bernardino which all form the consolidated area of Los Angeles with a population of some 18 million people. The same holds true north. San Fransisco and San Jose along with Oakland all form one CSMA which is often referred to as the Bay Area. Even though San Jose holds its own identity today, it hardly would have been what it is today had it not been for San Fransisco and people moving across the Bay Area looking for nicer homes, large lots etc. That is why it is still called the San Fransisco-San Jose-Oakland CSMA. Even though SF has lost a significant number of residents, it is still the SF area. In Vancouver BC, the same holds true as suburbs such as Surrey are directly threatening the surpass Vancouver [I haven't checked recently ..they may have already] but once again it will not become the Surrey Vancouver metro area. Surrey would have still been farms had it not been for Vancouverites seeking suburban housing.:) I hope I made some sense. :)

A few clarifications.

It's actually the San Jose-SF-Oakland CSA. And your analysis of SF being the center of the area is a bit off as well. Oakland and SJ along with many other cities have their own historical development. Silicon Valley did not grow out of SF. It grew from Palo Alto and Menlo Park. And while there is a lot of commuting from East Bay into SF, I doubt if many commute from SJ to SF, and none at all to save money on housing.

I could also quibble about the name of the area: it is the "Bay Area" or "SF Bay Area". It's named after the Bay, not the city. Remember the Bay was named long before a city was built there.

There's classic "pest" in all of his pesty glory.:lol:

lol Orange County would not be what it thinks it is if it wasn't for LA. First of all there was NO Orange County till the turn of the past century when it was created out of the southern portion of LA County.

It is all Metropolitan LA, if they don't want to be part of it, how would they fend off on their own? They'd be like Monterrey and Santa Cruz with beautiful coasts, and a world famous amusement park. Which by the way, it was originally intended to be built north of Griffith Park where the Disney Buena Vista Studios are now, but they wanted part of the park and the City of Los Angeles said nope.
Walt used to take his kids to Griffith Park frequently since they lived close by, and his idea flourished from those visits.

that's kind of a lame comment. It's like saying NYC is responsible for LA because the population started there first and slowly traveled west. OR saying that NYC is responsible for Hollywood. That may be technically true, but it's silly to try to take ownership of it.

In fact, LA's role to southern California isn't like NYC's role in the northeast. everyone goes to NYC to work and play. That's not really true of LA. SoCal for the most part is the most economically evenly distributed region in the country. there's no center. There's MANY centers. LA is but one city in a region that's larger than any city in it. On the east coast, there's NYC and then the rest of the NE. It dominates over the surroundings.

that's kind of a lame comment. It's like saying NYC is responsible for LA because the population started there first and slowly traveled west. OR saying that NYC is responsible for Hollywood. That may be technically true, but it's silly to try to take ownership of it.

In fact, LA's role to southern California isn't like NYC's role in the northeast. everyone goes to NYC to work and play. That's not really true of LA. SoCal for the most part is the most economically evenly distributed region in the country. there's no center. There's MANY centers. LA is but one city in a region that's larger than any city in it. On the east coast, there's NYC and then the rest of the NE. It dominates over the surroundings.

Who is "everyone" that goes to NYC to work (and using that god awful now acceptable term for leisure) "play"? The same people that trudge up from the OC to go to LA Live, Hollywood, the Grove and the Promenade are equivalent to those that trudge in from Long Island and Jersey to "play" in Manhattan. You may have something of a point about work but even the NYC metro area as well as all metros in the US have decentralized its employment centers over the past 40 years. NY's now regularly travel from Queens to Jersey to work or out to parts of Long Island. I don't think the two metros are as different as people try to make them out to be.

Who is "everyone" that goes to NYC to work (and using that god awful now acceptable term for leisure) "play"? The same people that trudge up from the OC to go to LA Live, Hollywood, the Grove and the Promenade are equivalent to those that trudge in from Long Island and Jersey to "play" in Manhattan. You may have something of a point about work but even the NYC metro area as well as all metros in the US have decentralized its employment centers over the past 40 years. NY's now regularly travel from Queens to Jersey to work or out to parts of Long Island. I don't think the two metros are as different as people try to make them out to be.


Decentralization on the east is a trend, it's not the reality as it is in socal. NYC's influence is overwhelming in the tri-state area of people coming to the city to work and then returning to NJ or Connecticut. Public transit allows them to do that. Someone from OC is not going to drive 2 hours to get to LA for work. That's the reason businesses aren't centralized in LA.

Play isn't centralized in LA either. The same obstacles for work effect play. Two people in NJ have the luxury to meet up for a simple drink in Manhattan after work (less than 30 minute commute). that's not the case in LA. I'm sure there are OC-ers who trek up to LA for the occasional thing that only takes place in LA, like a Lakers game. I can guarantee they aren't going up after work or even every weekend, as someone from NJ would have the luxury of doing in NYC.

Decentralization on the east is a trend, it's not the reality as it is in socal. NYC's influence is overwhelming in the tri-state area of people coming to the city to work and then returning to NJ or Connecticut. Public transit allows them to do that. Someone from OC is not going to drive 2 hours to get to LA for work. That's the reason businesses aren't centralized in LA.

Play isn't centralized in LA either. The same obstacles for work effect play. Two people in NJ have the luxury to meet up for a simple drink in Manhattan after work (less than 30 minute commute). that's not the case in LA. I'm sure there are OC-ers who trek up to LA for the occasional thing that only takes place in LA, like a Lakers game. I can guarantee they aren't going up after work or even every weekend, as someone from NJ would have the luxury of doing in NYC.

Well, there are people who live in places like Hemet, Temecula, and Lake Elsinore who I see at my at Metrolink station who take an hour long RTA CommuterLink bus just to get to the train, then take an hour long train to get to LA to work. However, LA is so spread out that Downtown LA is losing importance-This is why Metrolink should have other destinations and hubs besides Union Station. They should have some trains that thru-trains from one line to the other. San Bernardino --> Straight to Van Nuys no-transfer at Union Station.

The Westside being the obvious example. Places like Century City even though miles from downtown have their own Skyline with skyscrapers that rival downtown. This is why the Wilshire Subway should have gotten built first over the Hollywood Subway. Wilshire really hits the jobs. The Hollywood subway is mostly recreation to Hollywood attractions.(granted, it does help the people who work in the valley, so..)

Decentralization on the east is a trend, it's not the reality as it is in socal. NYC's influence is overwhelming in the tri-state area of people coming to the city to work and then returning to NJ or Connecticut. Public transit allows them to do that. Someone from OC is not going to drive 2 hours to get to LA for work. That's the reason businesses aren't centralized in LA.



Decentralization has been a reality since the 50's and the rise of suburbia. It started first on the East Coast and became an ethos on the West. Only recently has NYC been re-attracting many corporations that fled decades ago in this business friendly Bloomberg era. More and more businesses are looking at Downtown LA for the first time in that they never left, the region has always been somewhat decentralized. But with a growing pt system and an emphasis being put on it we will witness the center of gravity adjusting. It may never be a strong business downtown like Chicago or NYC( nor would we really want that) but it's significance and importance will have more weight I predict going further.
And yes, there are many many many people who drive 2 hours or Metrolink in from the OC, San Bernadino/Riverside, Ventura to work in Century City, Westwood or Downtown LA.

The Westside being the obvious example. Places like Century City even though miles from downtown have their own Skyline with skyscrapers that rival downtown. This is why the Wilshire Subway should have gotten built first over the Hollywood Subway. Wilshire really hits the jobs. The Hollywood subway is mostly recreation to Hollywood attractions.(granted, it does help the people who work in the valley, so..)

Do you know anything about LA subway history?

I think Century City would be totally different today if the subway wasn't stopped in Koreatown. Also, Century City would probably have more buildings if Santa Monica Blvd was turned into a Freeway from the 405 to 101 and eventually the Glendale Freeway as it was intended to be.

Do you know anything about LA subway history?

Yes, I know why Hollywood was built first. Just because Wilshire was stopped and banned from being built doesn't change fact that the Wilshire subway should have been built first.

EDIT: FYI: I don't speak about anything unless I know my $hit, so you can get off my ass.

Testy tesy.......:evil:

If Orange County hates L.A. so much (like most of the large California cities do) how about they just be part of San Diego's media market instead of ours?

Or we can split it. The southern part of the OC (which I personally think this is where most of the L.A. resentment in the OC is at for obvious reasons) can be part of the SD media market and the Northern part of OC can stay within the L.A. media market.

If Orange County hates L.A. so much (like most of the large California cities do) how about they just be part of San Diego's media market instead of ours?

Or we can split it. The southern part of the OC (which I personally think this is where most of the L.A. resentment in the OC is at for obvious reasons) can be part of the SD media market and the Northern part of OC can stay within the L.A. media market.

OC dislike for LA is over-stated. A lot of people talk trash but that's true about every city, high school, neighborhood, etc. Most people I know see benefits on either side and are somewhat torn: the more relaxing pace, resort life-style, etc. of the OC vs. the urban vibe and culture of LA. People at either extreme are likely to be people with fears and personal limitations.

Interesting conversation. As a resident of Orange County, I'll weigh in and say I would NEVER admit to living in Los Angeles.

When people ask me where I'm from when I travel I always say "Orange County", and then identify the exact city in OC if they are familiar. Otherwise, just saying "Orange County" works fine.

20 years ago, if I was beyond the West Coast I would have had to explain where that was exactly, and the answer then was "halfway between LA and San Diego, and I'm about 10 miles from Disneyland" and then they'd get it. But now in the 21st century, after years of TV shows like The Real Housewives of Orange County (that started that horrific franchise back in '05) and MTV's Laguna Beach or The OC, I can't remember the last time someone from back East or in the Midwest didn't know what I was talking about. I even had a businessman from Edinburgh, Scotland recently know where Orange County was and what it's stereotype was.

But I would never tell a stranger that I lived in LA, and I don't know any friends or family here in OC that would ever admit to using Los Angeles as a reference for where they live. It's just a different world up there, and to many in SoCal the image of LA is of a dirty, decaying, corrupt, congested and yet expensive city that is past its prime. It's not much to be proud of, and so people in OC don't want or need to associate themselves with it. Not to say there aren't a few gems left in LA proper, but it's nothing I need to associate with when I can honestly claim to live here instead.

The silly thing is that a lot of the stereotypes of Orange County are based on old 20th century data, or from people who don't live here and/or would look down their noses at anyone who lives outside any urban core in any metro area to begin with. Take Irvine, for example. Irvine is a master-planned city of 210,000 in the heart of OC that didn't exist prior to 1970. And it's a very ethnically diverse city where Whites make up a slim majority. From the 2010 census:

Irvine, California Demographics
Whites - 49%
Asians - 39%
Hispanic (any race) - 10%
Pacific Islander - 3%
Black - 2%

Not quite the lilly white world of mayonaise and Wonder bread that some folks would want you to believe.

Orange County, as a whole, has similar demographics. If you lifted Orange County up and plopped it in a cornfield in the Midwest, it would instantly be one of the top 20 biggest metros in the country, and certainly one of the most affluent. Heck, just the little burg of Anaheim with 330,000 people would be a decent small city in any state. Plus, you'd get Disneyland as part of the deal!

Orange County Demographics - 2010 Census
3.1 Million People
Median Family Income - $75,700
Whites - 60%
Hispanic (any race) - 34%
Asian - 18%
Black - 3%
Other Race (self described) - 18%

We have enough people to be our own major metro area, and we have a culture and lifestyle that is distinctly different from Los Angeles. Yes, we share network TV channels with LA, although in southern OC people watch the San Diego channels as well as tune in the San Diego radio stations. The broader LA Metro area, of which I'm mature enough to acknowledge that Orange County alongwith four other counties are comprised of, is a massive megalopolis. But Orange County has its own unique identity and most of us have chosen to live here on purpose.

We don't want to be LA, and we don't want to pretend to be LA. We are Orange County. :)

Saying your from the OC to a foreign person is very unusual in my experience. I deal with and travel with residents of the OC regularly and they universally say LA when travelling. Even Irvine would draw blank stares, except maybe in China. There's a reason the Angels went with LA as a brand rather than Anaheim.

As for culture being distinct, this is really very silly. You're saying people don't surf in Redondo, or go to up-scale tennis and golf clubs on the westside? Or go sailing or hang at upscale bars in LB, Malibu and the Marina?

Anybody in the OC ever go to a Laker game? Read the LA Times? Watch radio and TV? Come into Hollywood for clubbing? How many QB's does USC get from the OC?

Same gas stations, same fast food, same malls, same freeways, etc. Huge commuting in each direction. You even argue against yourself, when you note the amount of diversity in the OC, which is not that different from LA County.

Saying your from the OC to a foreign person is very unusual in my experience. I deal with and travel with residents of the OC regularly and they universally say LA when travelling. Even Irvine would draw blank stares, except maybe in China. There's a reason the Angels went with LA as a brand rather than Anaheim.

If I were to be at a cocktail party with foreign nationals in Beijing or Paris or Moscow, I certainly wouldn't bother with saying I'm from "Orange County". No one would know what I'm talking about, just like they also wouldn't know where Portland or Austin or Charlotte is. But if I'm making small talk with my American seatmate on a flight from Dallas to Chicago, I'll say "Orange County".

That said, I've never been at a cocktail party in Beijing. Heck, I've never been to Beijing, and have no current plans to go there. But if I was there, I'd probably say "Southern California", rather than claim some residence up in Los Angeles that I don't have. I have traveled in Japan and western Europe, and if I think about it I said "Southern California" or "California" when discussing where I was from. Say the word "California" to a shopgirl in Tokyo or a bartender in Edinburgh and their face lights up instantly with visions of Bay Watch and the Beach Boys and searchlights over Hollywood and Mickey Mouse at Disneyland and God knows what else. And that's good enough for me. I never needed to drag Los Angeles into the conversation.

As for culture being distinct, this is really very silly. You're saying people don't surf in Redondo, or go to up-scale tennis and golf clubs on the westside? Or go sailing or hang at upscale bars in LB, Malibu and the Marina?

They do those things up in LA, and they do them down in San Diego too. They do much of that in any mid-sized city, really. But Orange County has many unique and specific aspects to it that is quite different from LA, for those that pick up on stuff like that.

I used to live in Charleston, South Carolina, and there was a fun and very unique difference between Charleston and its similar yet different neighbor just to the south, Savannah, Georgia. I also once lived in suburban Boston, and came to appreciate the uniqueness of nearby New Hampshire and its wildly different political outlook and culture that was a stark contrast to Massachusetts towns just a few dozen miles south.

Differences are not a bad thing. But they exist. And there's a noticeable and apparent difference between Orange County and much of Los Angeles County. Even if both counties have In-N-Out Burger and Vons Supermarkets as a common bond.

Being from outside California, I perceive Anaheim as part of "greater LA" even though I am fully aware that it is a separate city in a metropolitan area and LA specifically means the City of Los Angeles or Los Angeles County or the general LA basin.

I guess since SoCal is such a sprawling decentralized place its not unreasonable for non-locals to see it as a kind of single megalopolis. Disneyland is in Anaheim but really its something identified as an LA thing.

Being from outside California, I perceive Anaheim as part of "greater LA" even though I am fully aware that it is a separate city in a metropolitan area and LA specifically means the City of Los Angeles or Los Angeles County or the general LA basin.

I guess since SoCal is such a sprawling decentralized place its not unreasonable for non-locals to see it as a kind of single megalopolis. Disneyland is in Anaheim but really its something identified as an LA thing.

I think that just about sums it up. They may not like being called part of "LA", but they would agree to being part of "the San Clemente to Ventura urban zone", which is usually called LA for sort.

In fact, think about the name of this site: Los Angeles Forums > Greater LA Area > Orange County

lol, U guys seen that cheetos commercial where the construction worker is dancing with the cheetah??

I love the quote at the end....."I can still see you!" and the cheetah responds "We KNOW"!

This is one of those moments! Anaheim is not LA! WE KNOW! but its all greater LA Area! case closed!! lol

I guess this issue has come up again since Arte Moreno is talking about moving from Anaheim to LA (presumably while dropping "of Anaheim"). MLB considers them the same area and, of course, he has been using the name LA for 7 years or so now in spite of being in the OC (I suppose there aren't that many people who remember the original minor league LA Angels or even the major league version that played at "Chavez Ravine" 50 years ago).

I would guess that Anaheim is really fighting a losing battle in claiming to be separate from LA since its population is small compared to LA and it doesn't have a county with the same name. It is trying to argue that it is separate from LA for puposes of wooing the Kings from Sacramento; but ironically, it also seems to be risking getting the Kings to move there by insisting on their not using the name "LA". This would just make the Anaheim Royals marketing people go through more hoops to really take advantage of the SoCal market.

Face it, Alweg! You've been taken over. Now, get Alweg to build you a mighty monorail and get over here where you belong! . In a world where (Hey, I sound like that guy who does trailers!) In a world where cities are now the preeminent locations on the planet, I would suggest you unite. Otherwise, you're gonna have your ass handed to you by everyone else. And I think this belongs here: LOS ANGELES: A WRITER'S CHALLENGE AND GLORY NOVELIST ROBERT CRAIS DRAWS FROM PERSPECTIVES BOTH NEAR AND FAR TO UNCOVER A CITY RICH IN MYSTERY AND OPPORTUNITIES . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%203/chandler.jpghttp://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%203/ulfandersengetty.jpg . RAYMOND CHANDLER . ROBERT CRAIS . The Los Angeles Times determined we have 114 separate and distinct neighborhoods here in Los Angeles. The city has posted several hundred blue signs naming far more. L.A. is a mash-up of uncountable, diverse neighborhoods spread over 465 square miles; hard and soft, painted in colors from concrete gray and security bar black to putting lawn green and jacaranda snowfall purple; beautiful, mysterious, dangerous, welcoming neighborhoods, soundtracked by the music of more languages than you or I or even the Los Angeles Times can count. . In "The Long Goodbye," Raymond Chandler (speaking as Philip Marlowe) described Los Angeles as a city "no worse than others, a city rich and vigorous and full of pride, a city lost and beaten and full of emptiness. It all depends on where you sit and what your own private score is." . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%203/bendelker9988-003.jpg . Meaning, L.A. is a city unique to each of us as well as a city we all create together. . Climb to the top of the Hollywood sign or gaze from the skyview seats above home plate at Dodger Stadium or hoist yourself onto the bench atop Runyon Canyon, and the City of Angels spreads her wings to the horizon. The hundreds of neighborhoods melt into a gently rolling forest dotted by skyscraper mountains where even the freeways vanish. This towering view of Los Angeles gives us the great, vast forest perspective in which we are all of one kind (Angelenos) and of one place (Los Angeles), but as with a forest covering a distant mountain, the individual trees — our neighborhoods — are invisible. If we want to know the rich flavors of K-town and Little Ethiopia, WeHo and Chinatown, Van Nuys and Compton, Brentwood, Boyle Heights and all the others, we need to leave the high ground and move into the trees. . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%203/4562927005_17a4b02fac_o-001.jpg . As with any forest, we have our share of predators. Murderers, gangs, thieves, maniacs — plenty of grist for my crime writer's mill, but these things can be found anywhere. To me, the best stories explore what it is to be human, and transcend neighborhood boundaries — an undocumented mother's fear when her daughter goes missing - an immigrant father's hope his children will have a better life, the friendship between Elvis Cole and Joe Pike that reflects the loyalty and love we all want to share. . To learn what joins us, we must take the city in our arms and gaze into the angel's eyes. I try to see those things we share, street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood, good and bad. These are the stories to which we can all relate and are the stories I want to tell. At the same time, I want to know our differences, because they are the flavors that make our city the most rewarding and our lives so interesting. . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%203/theusatravelnet-1.jpg . My challenge, then, is to see both near and far without losing either perspective. Not so easy in a city as large and complex as Los Angeles, but the struggle is worth it. . Where a city can define a people, by turn the people who live there by choice or circumstance also define that city, and it is these choices and circumstances I write about. What we risk, how far we go, how much we sacrifice. Will we be lost to the darkness or shine through it? . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%203/4679550206_7b8fe74a7e_b-1.jpg . As Chandler wrote, perhaps we each see our city from the perspective of our own private score, but what seems undeniable to me — private scores aside — is the hope that brings so many to Los Angeles, and the opportunities they seek here. Whatever the scale of our dreams, from the glitz-and-glam dream of stardom to the simple good hope of work and a better life, this place we call home is a beacon of light. The stories are worth telling. . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%203/rappensuncle3-001.jpg . ROBERT CRAIS LOSANGELESTIMES

A very nice article and generally very accurate. And I might add that people didn't come here to copy other cities; or at least the people who are going to thrive here didn't.

Any large city is a collection of communities. People in Brooklyn and Queens quite often think of "New York" (meaning Manhattan) as something alien and undesirable. They have their own small worlds. London, Paris, Istanbul, etc., are the same: people within miles of the center consider the center to be alien, decadent, prejudiced, arrogant, etc., and pride themselves on being distinct. It's all pretty human.

Saying your from the OC to a foreign person is very unusual in my experience. I deal with and travel with residents of the OC regularly and they universally say LA when travelling. Even Irvine would draw blank stares, except maybe in China. There's a reason the Angels went with LA as a brand rather than Anaheim.

As for culture being distinct, this is really very silly. You're saying people don't surf in Redondo, or go to up-scale tennis and golf clubs on the westside? Or go sailing or hang at upscale bars in LB, Malibu and the Marina?

Anybody in the OC ever go to a Laker game? Read the LA Times? Watch radio and TV? Come into Hollywood for clubbing? How many QB's does USC get from the OC?

Same gas stations, same fast food, same malls, same freeways, etc. Huge commuting in each direction. You even argue against yourself, when you note the amount of diversity in the OC, which is not that different from LA County.

I agree... I just got back from China and was traveling with a friend from OC and when asked where he was from, the answer was always LA.