Not another new useless agency please....fed up from these useless and corrupt bodies sucking the blood out of common man...

One can guess the type of functioning of high speed rail body considering the fact that it will have Indian Railway officials.

Not another new useless agency please....fed up from these useless and corrupt bodies sucking the blood out of common man...

One can guess the type of functioning of high speed rail body considering the fact that it will have Indian Railway officials.

I will prefer another agency anytime over The Great Indian Railways

ahmedabad-surat-baroda-mumbai(borivali-Bandra-Dadar-Kurla-Thane-Kalyan)-lonavala pune


forget bullet trains, if trains can travel at 180km per hour it will heavily boost connectivity.


If you can get from a-bad to pune to 5 hours it will be highly successful venture incorporating major points of MMR. Many routes such as Surat to Ahmedabad and Pune to Mumbai many will use for their daily commutes brining volume to sections of the route making it profitable.

then you can have delhi-gurgaon-jaipur-a bad and join the two lines.


but lets keep costs in control. Rather than aiming for 300km per hour bullet trains lets go for affordable 180 km per hour conventional trains and invest in tracks and upgrade bridges.



Realistically the aim should be to connect Delhi to Mumbai via Ahmedabad in 9-10 hours from the current 16.5 by rajdhani.


Anybody planning to goto Delhi from mumbai or vice versa can take the 10pm train and arrive at their destination at an affordable price to flying the next morning.

quite sensible. They should quadruple the trackage between Virar and ahmedabad to seperate slower express trains, goods trains and passenger/shuttles from the faster express trains. Improve the signaling (in-cab signalling and automatic train stop). These modifications will allow for speeds upto 200 kph.

Similar approaches should extend to other trunk lines like Mumbai-Pune, Chennai-Bangalore, Chennai-Hyderabad, Chandigarh-Delhi-Agra-Kanpur-Lucknow and Kolkata-Patna. Even the Trivandrum-Ernakulam stretch can be speeded up similarly.

I guess later the entire trunk routes like Mumbai-Delhi (via Ahmedabad), Chennai-Delhi and others can be upgraded to form a golden quadrilateral just like NHAI did for the highways.

^^

separation of freight corridor will be done under DMIC. New tracks will be laid for HSR and older ones will be for slow trains including Duronto and Rajdhani and Shatabdi. But if they just separate dedicated lines for Shatabdi and other fast trains and increase their frequency as well as speed it will serve the purpose

One can guess the type of functioning of high speed rail body considering the fact that it will have Indian Railway officials.
+1.
why not include rail experts from China/Japan in the national HSR board or atleast consider them in advisory panels, if GoI policies permit. :)

They should quadruple the trackage to seperate slower express trains, goods trains and passenger/shuttles from the faster express trains. Improve the signaling. These modifications will allow for speeds upto 200 kph.*

Existing rail lines in India are built on open land without any access control as well as have joints, curves and gradients where higher speeds maynot be practical.We all are aware some express trains speed reduced due to accidents & for improved safety in recent past. Hence let us accept those limitations and welcome access controlled HSR in India for high speed trains while existing rail lines be used for freight and low speed passenger trains.

+1.

Existing rail lines in India are built on open land without any access control as well as have joints, curves and gradients where higher speeds maynot be practical.We all are aware some express trains speed reduced due to accidents & for improved safety in recent past. Hence let us accept those limitations and welcome access controlled HSR in India for high speed trains while existing rail lines be used for freight and low speed passenger trains.

Agree to a point. But I was not discussing 300-350 kph lines. Those speeds necessitate separate lines for the high speed part of the journey. I was hinting at speed increases till 200 kph ( approx 125 mph) like the Northeast corridor in the US and the east coast and west coat mainlines in UK.

Now while our railway routes have many curves, on close observation the trunk routes paralleling the proposed high speed routes are fairly straight and sharp curving sections are not that common on these routes. Quadrupling and improve the speeds will include slight course deviation to maintain speeds. Gradients are not a problem for achieving high speeds. The joints on the railway tracks are, but this can be improved by having continuously welded tracks. In my observation tracks in and around mumbai have reduced the joints with long stretches of welded tracks.

Now open access tracks can be made partial access. Eliminate level crossings on trunk routes. Introduce underpasses/overpasses at regular intervals to enable crossing of people and animals. these facilities should be more frequent in urban/populated areas.Introduce fencing of tracks wherever necessary. And perhaps elevate tracks wherever necessary to avoid interference with other modes.

Well, I support you on quadrupling of trunk lines not for 200kmph speeds but for higher carrying capacity.:)

IR trunk routes are congested now and with demand of more trains every year, more tracks needed. With existing speed limits itself, safety seems compromised as seen by accident reports below:-
=======================================================
http://www.livemint.com/2012/07/05193150/Why-our-trains-are-such-killer.html
Why our trains are such killers | Jul 6 2012 Aakar Patel
In 2008-09 there were 13 train collisions, which could all have been avoided. In the last five years, 1,220 people have died in such crashes. The BBC reports that India has a budget of Rs20,000 crore for rail safety, but it is clear that there’s no improvement in the accident record. Negligence of staff and failure of equipment accounted for 69% of India’s train accidents in 2009-10, 61% in 2010-11 and 64% in 2011-12. Last year, 3,548 people died on Mumbai’s local train network.
=====================================================
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-07-19/india/28313545_1_train-accident-train-mishap-kmph
Uttarbanga Express had crossed speed limit: Officials | Jul 19, 2010
Preliminary probe into Monday's train mishap has indicated that Uttarbanga Express was moving at a speed of over 60 kms per, nearly 40 kms per hour more than the limit, and overshot the signal resulting in the fatal incident.Commissioner of railway safety is holding a detailed inquiry into the accident, the second in less than two months after Jnaneshwari train accident in the State which claimed 148 lives.
=========================================

For higher speeds upto 200kmph, Iam sure huge funding needed to meet additional safety requirements.Passenger travel is subsidised and with Railways now in red, already GoI is stressed to provide funds. Only with adequate safety mechanisms in place, IR should think of increasing speed limits otherwise lives maybe at stake.

Easier way out is as I said earlier it is better to run high speed trains on dedicated HSR tracks and leave the existing IR tracks for speeds upto 130kmph.^^

High speed rail will help cut down on environmental pollution

BANGALORE: There could be a welcome spin-off to introducing the High Speed Rail between Bangalore and Mysore. It may cut down carbon dioxide emission by 31.32 % according to experts from the Indian Institute of Science following a recent survey.

The experts found that a large chunk of carbon emissions currently comes from private mode users (cars and two-wheelers) as their emission rate is high. "The policy-makers should look at ways to make rail-based mode of transport more attractive. Instead of investing in highway corridors, improvement can be done in the HSR corridor and movement within the city can be improved," said Ashish Verma, assistant professor, department of civil engineering, Indian Institute of Science. Varun Raturi, along with Verma, did this survey.

The need

The Indian government is looking at HSR as a possible mode of transport. Many feasibility studies have been undertaken and the state government too has done many infrastructure projects, one of which is the HSR link. However, given that HSR has not yet been implemented in India, there are few studies. asWe have undertaken this study to largely look at the practicality of introducing HSR in the state. "We will submit it to state government officials," said Verma.

Data collection

* Data collected through surveys at bus-stands, railway stations, onboard trains between Bangalore and Mysore and National Highway 17 and restaurants

* Provided information about socio-economic status and travel behaviour of sample population and their willingness to shift to HSR. Bangalore-Mysore corridor taken as study area

* Target population were passengers travelling from Bangalore to Mysore with 290 interviews

* Each individual given six choice situations, thus making a total of 1740 observations

Emission calculation

* Daily passenger kilometres of travel: Derived by multiplying daily number of passengers with distance of trip i.e. 144km.

* Calculating total emission from vehicle travelled during a year: Determined by multiplying annual passenger kilometre with standard value of vehicle emissions for different modes.

source:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bangalore/High-speed-rail-will-help-cut-down-on-environmental-pollution/articleshow/15310846.cms

+1.
why not include rail experts from China/Japan in the national HSR board or atleast consider them in advisory panels, if GoI policies permit. :)



Existing rail lines in India are built on open land without any access control as well as have joints, curves and gradients where higher speeds maynot be practical.We all are aware some express trains speed reduced due to accidents & for improved safety in recent past. Hence let us accept those limitations and welcome access controlled HSR in India for high speed trains while existing rail lines be used for freight and low speed passenger trains.
I think the mumbai - Ahmedabad route is pretty much straight and it should be possible to upgrade the existing infra structure to accomodate speeds of around 200 to 225 . If I am not mistaken some Japanese experts were already carrying out a survey on that

The existing railway line can not be upgraded to high speed for technical as well as implementation issues. There are some technical issues such as no access control, curves, grades etc. The major issue is implemetation problem. The recent Kakodar report on railway safety has clearly indication when it said there is 'implementation bug' in IR functioning.This IR management can not do anything when thousands of people are killed in rail related accident, how can we expect them to upgrade existing network to even decent high speed network.

TOI (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata/High-speed-rail-corridor-feasible-Consortium/articleshow/15427511.cms)
High-speed rail corridor feasible: Consortium

KOLKATA: In a state where a sizeable chunk of the population supports the decision not to raise train fares, will people be ready to shell out Rs 1,000 or more to cover the 135-odd kilometres between Haldia and Kolkata in less than an hour? This is the question doing the rounds, now that the Spanish consortium engaged by the Indian Railways to conduct a pre-feasibility study on a high-speed railway corridor between Kolkata and Haldia has stated that it is possible to run trains between the two locations at 200-300 km per hour.

The ministry of railways, in consultation with state governments, proposed high speed corridors between Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar, Pune- Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Hyderabad-Dornakal-Vijaywada-Chennai, Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulum, Howrah-Haldia and Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna. It was also proposed to set up a National High Speed Rail Authority ( NHSRA) for planning, standard setting, implementing and monitoring these projects. It was estimated that the construction cost per km would be Rs 75-100 crore.

"The consortium of M/s INECO, M/s PROINTEC and M/s Ayesha (the consultant) was engaged to conduct a pre-feasibility study. The study was completed earlier this year and the report stated that it is feasible to build an elevated corridor from Kolkata (Howrah) to Haldia. Some companies from Japan have also expressed their interest in providing high-speed trains for these corridors. However, all these projects will be extremely cost-intensive. It has been estimated that the Haldia-Kolkata stretch (the smallest one) will cost over Rs 10,000 crore. Unlike other railway networks in the country, the rate of return will have to be high for the high-speed trains. Though a feasibility report has not yet been prepared, passengers would need to pay at least Rs 10 per km," an official said.

Though Haldia is an industrial township and there is a demand for better connectivity from Kolkata, officials aren't sure whether this ambitious project will be financially viable. In the past, a catamaran service between Kolkata and Haldia had to be closed down due to lack of adequate patronage.

"If high speed trains are to be run, an elevated corridor is the only solution. Given the situation in the country, land acquisition is a very difficult proposition. For an elevated corridor, we would require only small patches of land for the pillars. The tracks and electric supply would also be quite different from those used by Indian Railways now. The tracks would have to be fenced to prevent people or animals from crossing over.

Running services are also expensive as power requirements will be much higher. An elevated corridor is much more expensive than surface tracks though. Laying tracks on the surface costs much less and a lower rate of return can be considered," the official said.

People are now wondering whether the route from Howrah to Haldia for the high speed corridor was a right choice. The railways could have selected a longer route which is in greater demand.

ET (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/railways/hsrc-to-execute-indias-first-bullet-train-project-between-mumbai-and-ahmedabad/articleshow/16007726.cms)
HSRC to execute India's first bullet train project between Mumbai and Ahmedabad

NEW DELHI: High Speed Rail Corporation of India (HSRC), a company that was incorporated last month, will speed up the process of building India's first high speed rail network between Mumbai to Ahmedabad. This will reduce the current travel time between the two financial hubs from current eight hours to about two hours.

The HSRC, which has been created as a subsidiary of Rail Vikas Nigam Ltd (RVNL), will formally be launched by railway minister Mukul Roy in September, according to an official connected to the development.

The Vision 2020 document presented to Parliament by then railway minister Mamata Banerjee in 2009, first talked about implementation of high speed rail corridors with services at 250 to 350 km per hour.

"We have just begun the process. But yes, it will be implemented in a public private partnership mode", Satish Agnihotri, managing director of RVNL said. According to the written reply to a question in Lok Sabha on Thursday, the railway ministry informed that likely private investment in the high speed corridor between Mumbai and Admedabad will be to the tune of Rs 20,000 crore. The government is also expecting soft loan from multilateral agencies and government institutions of Japan.

The newly incorporated HSRC will first concentrate on Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor before venturing out to other corridors such as Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar, Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna, Howrah-Haldia, Hyderabad-Chennai and Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam-Thiruvananthapuram.

The company will prepare project related studies, preparation of technical standards, providing support to government in finalizing financial and implementation models.

Significantly, the first high speed train Shinkansen, popularly called bullet train, was introduced between Tokyo and Shin-Osaka in 1964. The original speed of the bullet train was 240 km per hour, which was later enhanced to 300 km per hour. The other such high speed trains are TGV of France, AVE of Spain and Chinese Railways.

In India, Shatabdi Express is the fastest train so far which zips at a maximum of 150 km per hour only in the section between Delhi and Agra. In most other stretches its speed limit is 130 km per hour.

I was wondering when HSRC would come in effect, looks like it materialized. First major step for HSR in India.

so after 51 pages a post that marks the beginning :)

Now some concrete news :cheers:

It's only a dream

ET (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/railways/hsrc-to-execute-indias-first-bullet-train-project-between-mumbai-and-ahmedabad/articleshow/16007726.cms)
HSRC to execute India's first bullet train project between Mumbai and Ahmedabad

NEW DELHI: High Speed Rail Corporation of India (HSRC), a company that was incorporated last month, will speed up the process of building India's first high speed rail network between Mumbai to Ahmedabad. This will reduce the current travel time between the two financial hubs from current eight hours to about two hours.

The HSRC, which has been created as a subsidiary of Rail Vikas Nigam Ltd (RVNL), will formally be launched by railway minister Mukul Roy in September, according to an official connected to the development.

The Vision 2020 document presented to Parliament by then railway minister Mamata Banerjee in 2009, first talked about implementation of high speed rail corridors with services at 250 to 350 km per hour.

"We have just begun the process. But yes, it will be implemented in a public private partnership mode", Satish Agnihotri, managing director of RVNL said. According to the written reply to a question in Lok Sabha on Thursday, the railway ministry informed that likely private investment in the high speed corridor between Mumbai and Admedabad will be to the tune of Rs 20,000 crore. The government is also expecting soft loan from multilateral agencies and government institutions of Japan.

The newly incorporated HSRC will first concentrate on Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor before venturing out to other corridors such as Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar, Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna, Howrah-Haldia, Hyderabad-Chennai and Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam-Thiruvananthapuram.

The company will prepare project related studies, preparation of technical standards, providing support to government in finalizing financial and implementation models.

Significantly, the first high speed train Shinkansen, popularly called bullet train, was introduced between Tokyo and Shin-Osaka in 1964. The original speed of the bullet train was 240 km per hour, which was later enhanced to 300 km per hour. The other such high speed trains are TGV of France, AVE of Spain and Chinese Railways.

In India, Shatabdi Express is the fastest train so far which zips at a maximum of 150 km per hour only in the section between Delhi and Agra. In most other stretches its speed limit is 130 km per hour.

Oh!! Finally After 9 Months:cheers::cheers::banana:

It's only a dream

Till few years ago people used to say the same about the IGI Airport or Metro trains or Formula 1 track in India too. :)

Till few years ago people used to say the same about the IGI Airport or Metro trains or Formula 1 track in India too. :)

do u see the common denominator here....DELHI...
I think only DELHI can pull of such huge infrastructure projects like this....therefore i think there should b a delhi mumbai high speed corridor first...and then rest of India will follow....:cheers:

Oh.. The fortunes of being the political capital.. :|

^^ The Formula 1 was in Noida and was implemented by UP govt.

For me, there is nothing wrong with dreaming. But we need concrete action plans to get there. Also, I don't know if this has been discussed before but I think HSR should cater to middle-class and business travelers as an alternative to flights.

^^ The Formula 1 was in Noida and was implemented by UP govt.

For me, there is nothing wrong with dreaming. But we need concrete action plans to get there. Also, I don't know if this has been discussed before but I think HSR should cater to middle-class and business travelers as an alternative to flights.

I believe this comment will be met with criticism because people will always worry about the aam admi.

^^ The Formula 1 was in Noida and was implemented by UP govt.

For me, there is nothing wrong with dreaming. But we need concrete action plans to get there. Also, I don't know if this has been discussed before but I think HSR should cater to middle-class and business travelers as an alternative to flights.

they wouldn't have made F1 any where else in UP. it was NOIDA only because it is close to Delhi. Any way HSR is being made by a new company not Indian railways so it might even become a reality :)

^^ That new company will be a subsidary of RVNL which will ultimately report to Indian Railways /Ministry of Railways.

^^ The Formula 1 was in Noida and was implemented by UP govt.

For me, there is nothing wrong with dreaming. But we need concrete action plans to get there. Also, I don't know if this has been discussed before but I think HSR should cater to middle-class and business travelers as an alternative to flights.

F1 race track was implemented by JAYPEE group as part of the bigger jaypee sports city project....what is the role of UP govt in this other than approval...also i guess the approval given by noida authority and NCR planning board....not by any "gunda pradesh" agency....

F1 race track was implemented by JAYPEE group as part of the bigger jaypee sports city project....what is the role of UP govt in this other than approval...also i guess the approval given by noida authority and NCR planning board....not by any "gunda pradesh" agency....

No need to post racist comment with very high degree of generalization and sensationalist attitude. :bash:

Delhi have more crime and rapes then UP which have 12 times the population of Delhi.

Oh.. The fortunes of being the political capital.. :|

No, its about the melting pot the true metropolitan. The Delhi Metro is built under the leadership of a keralite and IGI airport by Andhra Pradesh co. (GMR Group and L&T)

No, its about the melting pot the true metropolitan. The Delhi Metro is built under the leadership of a keralite and IGI airport by Andhra Pradesh co. (GMR Group and L&T)
Actually I too believe that Delhi has benefited because of its political status including the metro, the various road projects. Every metropolitan city including delhi should have excellent transit facilities. I don't believe that the delhi state govt would have pulled it off on all projects on its own. The initiative of central govt has definitely been a major factor.

However I also agree with the original point made by archikind that a Mumbai-Delhi high speed corridor (via Ahmedabad and jaipur) should be persisted instead of just Mumbai-Ahmedabad for different reasons though. Doing this will truly make the public confident that high speed rail can work over long distance (>1000 km) and a complete national network is more of a necessity rather than a luxury.

^^ That new company will be a subsidary of RVNL which will ultimately report to Indian Railways /Ministry of Railways.

That doesn't necessarily mean that they would have the same mindset of the Indian Railways. Hopefully not.

You are right.. I was attempting to correct the statement and that it is still with in the Indian railways umbrella.

However I also agree with the original point made by archikind that a Mumbai-Delhi high speed corridor (via Ahmedabad and jaipur) should be persisted instead of just Mumbai-Ahmedabad for different reasons though. Doing this will truly make the public confident that high speed rail can work over long distance (>1000 km) and a complete national network is more of a necessity rather than a luxury.

Let them atleast start with 350kms first.. before dreaming for 1000kms :)

There are almost 25 trains running daily between Ahd and Mum and god knows how many Private buses and Govt buses. And still during festive periods it is hard to get tickets between this two stops. I think this would be the busiest (or atleast one of the busiest) route in India.

I would say, to start HSR as a trial in a shorter distance, it's a perfect start between Ahd and Mum.

And on a lighter tone, we would see a smaller SCAM :)

Let them atleast start with 350kms first.. before dreaming for 1000kms :)

There are almost 25 trains running daily between Ahd and Mum and god knows how many Private buses and Govt buses. And still during festive periods it is hard to get tickets between this two stops. I think this would be the busiest (or atleast one of the busiest) route in India.

I would say, to start HSR as a trial in a shorter distance, it's a perfect start between Ahd and Mum.

And on a lighter tone, we would see a smaller SCAM :)

Delhi _ Patna is another route where you can't find a confirm ticket during festival season.

Delhi _ Patna is another route where you can't find a confirm ticket during festival season.

And I thought people dont have to buy a ticket when travelling to patna !! :lol:

And I thought people dont have to buy a ticket when travelling to patna !! :lol:

:lol: Even Delhi-Kolkata, Delhi-Patna, Kolkata-Mumbai, Delhi-Bangalore, all are very busy routes. :) The Delhi-eastern region of India routes are always jammed! :):lol:

And I thought people dont have to buy a ticket when travelling to patna !! :lol:

hehe.. good one mate... :lol:

:lol: Even Delhi-Kolkata, Delhi-Patna, Kolkata-Mumbai, Delhi-Bangalore, all are very busy routes. :) The Delhi-eastern region of India routes are always jammed! :):lol:

I have been saying on this thread in the past and again i repeat. Ahmedabd mumbai is the only feasible route at this time in india. There are atleast 60000 people travelling on this route. People work in surat and live in ahmedabad and baroda and vice versa. I know a few people who travel daily from surat to mumbai for business.

^^ + 1 Lot of people travel between Surat and Mumbai daily. But I doubt they can pay daily expense else they would have been living in Mumbai and not the daily up-down. There are many who do daily Pune-Mumbai updown (there are 3-4 early morning trains daily) But again I think, they cannot afford the daily expense. Note monthly pass between Pune- Mumbai costs somewhere Rs600 and HSR will cost more than that for a single trip itself forget whole month.

However Amd- Mumbai is definately feasible and will later be extended to Pune.

And I thought people dont have to buy a ticket when travelling to patna !! :lol:

These are only myth. And fools believe in this. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

These are only myth. And fools believe in this. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

FYI, I have travelled on NR from Delhi to Gaya in 2010 Jan, and have seen the worst ! Even if you have a ticket in the Sleeper class, you have to pay the bahubalis to sit on your own seat.

FYI, I have travelled on NR from Delhi to Gaya in 2010 Jan, and have seen the worst ! Even if you have a ticket in the Sleeper class, you have to pay the bahubalis to sit on your own seat.

And also have to pay them stupid trannies -_-

And also have to pay them stupid trannies -_-

Yeah ! I would ban them from even coming out of their homes !

FYI, I have travelled on NR from Delhi to Gaya in 2010 Jan, and have seen the worst ! Even if you have a ticket in the Sleeper class, you have to pay the bahubalis to sit on your own seat.

The first time I traveled in one of the east bound trains (back in my school days) I was in for a rude shock. I asked one the persons sitting on my seat in sleeper class that the one you are sitting on is mine (with an obvious frustration. the temper in good'ol school days as it is used to be high). They laughed so hard that I had to retreat back without saying a word. There were some sane ones who told me to sit elsewhere till these guys get off at Mughalsarai and Patna. After that you can have your seat. :ohno:

The first time I traveled in one of the east bound trains (back in my school days) I was in for a rude shock. I asked one the persons sitting on my seat in sleeper class that the one you are sitting on is mine (with an obvious frustration. the temper in good'ol school days as it is used to be high). They laughed so hard that I had to retreat back without saying a word. There were some sane ones who told me to sit elsewhere till these guys get off at Mughalsarai and Patna. After that you can have your seat. :ohno:

Gujarat is much better. I travelled every two weeks from Mumbai to ahmedabad from 2008 to 2010 and the ppl are so nice and accomodating. Something to learn from gujaratis ! Thats why i say, amd-bom is the only feasible route right now.

Gujarat is much better. I travelled every two weeks from Mumbai to ahmedabad from 2008 to 2010 and the ppl are so nice and accomodating. Something to learn from gujaratis ! Thats why i say, amd-bom is the only feasible route right now.
how about DEL-AMD-BOM?

how about DEL-AMD-BOM?

In that case, it should be DEL-JAI-AMD-BOM (maybe baroda too?)

In that case, it should be DEL-JAI-AMD-BOM (maybe baroda too?)

Amd - bom already have plans to stop at baroda and surat

how about DEL-AMD-BOM?

I still feel ppl will prfer to fly when distance is higher than 600 km.

too many stops will kill the speed

Another feasible route in near future is only blr - chennai. Rest of india needs to wait till maybe 2030 or 2040

Umang Shukla, what do you reckon the pricing of high speed rail will be like. If it is on par with the airlines, it may not make sense to use it for longer distances. What sort of speeds will be considered "high speed" in India. Will it hit 250 km/h?

too many stops will kill the speed

Whats the intent of having a bullet train? To reduce the current time from 6.5 hrs to 3 hrs. In that case, bullet trains are also costly to run. U will need to cater the traffic from big cities and u cant ignore the traffic from baroda and surat even if stopping there increases the total journey time by 30 mins

Another feasible route in near future is only blr - chennai. Rest of india needs to wait till maybe 2030 or 2040

You think you will get AMD-BOM by 2030? :D

Umang Shukla, what do you reckon the pricing of high speed rail will be like. If it is on par with the airlines, it may not make sense to use it for longer distances. What sort of speeds will be considered "high speed" in India. Will it hit 250 km/h?

I guess amd - bom shall cost around 1000 rs

I think it will definitely reach 230-300 kmph range between surat and mumbai coz for about 250 km after surat no stops. But the top speed of 250-300 will last only for a few mins say 10-15 mins only.

Why are operational costs of bullet trains higher than conventional trains ?

too many stops will kill the speed

Too many stations won't necessarily reduce the speed as it is possible to run multiple services with different stopping patterns.

As an example in Japan, the Tokaido Shinkansen has 3 different services which are fastest (few stops), intermediate and local (all stops).

You think you will get AMD-BOM by 2030? :D

by 2020 if modi is the pm from 2014 else even 2050 is unattainable !!:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

My question here, when world is going for 400-500km/hr we are thinking for 250-350km/hr. So result we will get a train with average speed of 150-200km/hr. So what's result of spending so much crores of rupees to get just average speed of 150?? With these tracks also we can achieve top speed of 150km/hr. They should target for 400-500km/hr so we can achieve atleast 250-350 average speed.

My question here, when world is going for 400-500km/hr we are thinking for 250-350km/hr. So result we will get a train with average speed of 150-200km/hr. So what's result of spending so much crores of rupees to get just average speed of 150?? With these tracks also we can achieve top speed of 150km/hr. They should target for 400-500km/hr so we can achieve atleast 250-350 average speed.

There is always a place to start mate.

My question here, when world is going for 400-500km/hr we are thinking for 250-350km/hr. So result we will get a train with average speed of 150-200km/hr. So what's result of spending so much crores of rupees to get just average speed of 150?? With these tracks also we can achieve top speed of 150km/hr. They should target for 400-500km/hr so we can achieve atleast 250-350 average speed.

Even if they reduce the travel time by half its a good start

Incremental upgrades such as improving safety standards, better signalling and grade separation of existing track in order to get the train to travel at least 160 km/h on average (with top speed of 200 km/h) will be able to bring down to travel time between Mumbai and Delhi to about 8.6 hours.

If the average speed increased to 180 km/h on existing track, that travel time can be brought further to 7.7 hours.

This is appealing as such services if run overnight, tourists and business travellers can take this train while saving expenses such as hotel.

Incremental upgrades such as this will allow longer and better planning of future new passenger rail track (up to 350 km/h).

by 2020 if modi is the pm from 2014 else even 2050 is unattainable

Agree Modi is a good at providing governance. but there are other leaders around the country who have delivered as much without polarising people. If you are trying to imply that the country wont develop without Modi then you cant be more wrong. And just FYI, I do not support the Congress. :)

And I believe than the Kerala HSR will be very successful. And Hyderabad-Vijayawada-Chennai will have a lot of takers as well. And if Chennai-Bangalore HSR meets Hyd-Chennai somewhere near Tirupati then both routes will be jam packed.

Agree Modi is a good at providing governance. but there are other leaders around the country who have delivered as much without polarising people. If you are trying to imply that the country wont develop without Modi then you cant be more wrong. And just FYI, I do not support the Congress. :)

And I believe than the Kerala HSR will be very successful. And Hyderabad-Vijayawada-Chennai will have a lot of takers as well. And if Chennai-Bangalore HSR meets Hyd-Chennai somewhere near Tirupati then both routes will be jam packed.

So u are saying that people will pay 1500 Rs to travel from hyd to blr? Dude to run a hsr u need massive loads. Its not an airplace with 200 passengers. It requires 1500+ ppl who are willing to pay.

My question here, when world is going for 400-500km/hr we are thinking for 250-350km/hr. So result we will get a train with average speed of 150-200km/hr. So what's result of spending so much crores of rupees to get just average speed of 150?? With these tracks also we can achieve top speed of 150km/hr. They should target for 400-500km/hr so we can achieve atleast 250-350 average speed.

Valid point...why do we look only for cathing up to the world..why cant we lead...are we that scared of failure that we cant even try??

Air plane*

I never talked about a Hyd-Bang direct route(The IR route itself a single track at some places). I said a Chennai-Bang route and Hyd-Chennai route intersecting somewhere near Tirupati.

There are around 30 Volvo services between Hyd and Bang everyday. I'm not saying that they are operating at 100% occupancy. But that is significant traffic. I'm not saying that everyone will switch over.

Hyd-Vijayawada will run full if priced well. And Tirupati as you know is one of the biggest domestic tourist destination in India. Bangalore-Tirupati and Chennai-Tirupati traffic is also very significant.

I never talked about a Hyd-Bang direct route(The IR route itself a single track at some places). I said a Chennai-Bang route and Hyd-Chennai route intersecting somewhere near Tirupati.

There are around 30 Volvo services between Hyd and Bang everyday. I'm not saying that they are operating at 100% occupancy. But that is significant traffic. I'm not saying that everyone will switch over.

Hyd-Vijayawada will run full if priced well. And Tirupati as you know is one of the biggest domestic tourist destination in India. Bangalore-Tirupati and Chennai-Tirupati traffic is also very significant.

http://nexus.umn.edu/papers/HighSpeedRail.pdf
Please read this report

Agree Modi is a good at providing governance. but there are other leaders around the country who have delivered as much without polarising people. If you are trying to imply that the country wont develop without Modi then you cant be more wrong. And just FYI, I do not support the Congress. :)

And I believe than the Kerala HSR will be very successful. And Hyderabad-Vijayawada-Chennai will have a lot of takers as well. And if Chennai-Bangalore HSR meets Hyd-Chennai somewhere near Tirupati then both routes will be jam packed.

Looks like good and viable option.

Looks like good and viable option.

I agree that BLR- Chennai is a Viable option but not HYD- Chennai !

by 2020 if modi is the pm from 2014 else even 2050 is unattainable !!:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

I have heard Modi talking about HSR between BOM-AMD couple of times in his speeches. So I believe HSR will be his priority if he becomes PM in 2014

I have heard Modi talking about HSR between BOM-AMD couple of times in his speeches. So I believe HSR will be his priority if he becomes PM in 2014

The word is if. My family would be delighted if anything of the sort happened.

The word is if. My family would be delighted if anything of the sort happened.

He said that gujarat is ready to start a bullet train to delhi !!!

The others have to be ready too. Haryana, Rajasthan etc.

As far as routes go, a good idea (again just an idea) would be to have a golden quadrilateral (del-mum-chennai-kolkata) and/or north-south (delhi-bhopal-hyd-bang) east-west (mum-kol) high-speed corridors just like the highways built over a 30 year time-span.

Over the next decade, I think we should pursue Kerela HSR (already started), BLR-Chn, AMD-MUM trains.

I would also like to see BLR-Mys (as an extra alternative to driving, regular train, etc.)

Yes,the idea of golden quadrilateral is the best with some minor changes like Kolkata to chennai via Hyderabad ,chennai to Mumbai via Bangalore and Mysore ,Mumbai to Delhi via Ahmedabad and Jaipur .

Yes,the idea of golden quadrilateral is the best with some minor changes like Kolkata to chennai via Hyderabad ,chennai to Mumbai via Bangalore and Mysore ,Mumbai to Delhi via Ahmedabad and Jaipur .

+1

http://nexus.umn.edu/papers/HighSpeedRail.pdf
Please read this report

Thanks for the link. Totally agree about HSR not being more beneficial for long distance travel. That is why the proposed HSR route between Hyd-Chennai goes through Dornakal(Warangal District), Vijayawada, Guntur and from there to Chennai. There are other short distance routes like Nellore-Chennai, Gudur-Chennai, Tirupati-Chennai that see a lot of passenger movement. It's not like people will only get on/off only at Hyd/Chennai.

HSR may be expensive for short distance travelers, unless they are business or corporate travelers. However, there are routes like Bangalore - Chennai, or BLR - HYD which can easily absorb the HSR, not to mention routes in the rest of the nation.
A 350 kmph train between any two metros will be a fantastic option for travelers. As mentioned by someone above, India may not be capable of super high speeds, given the lackadaisical approach of the govt and god forbid quality erosion due to corruption. That would be a real horror story in the making.

India should keep the future in mind while building these corridors.So they should go for 450-550kmph tracks.Or else after 5 years of service they will again have to go for upgradation,which would lack of vision.

Plus these high speed corridor will definitely help our economy by reducing the air fuel consumption.One thing our govt. can do is that to give subsidy for HSR use.Make Air fuel more costly(for domestic use only) which is inevitable in near future,o that more no. of people would embrace travelling in HSR.So it would be easier for HSR corp.

India should keep the future in mind while building these corridors.So they should go for 450-550kmph tracks.Or else after 5 years of service they will again have to go for upgradation,which would lack of vision.

Plus these high speed corridor will definitely help our economy by reducing the air fuel consumption.One thing our govt. can do is that to give subsidy for HSR use.Make Air fuel more costly(for domestic use only) which is inevitable in near future,o that more no. of people would embrace travelling in HSR.So it would be easier for HSR corp.

Totally agree

Yes,the idea of golden quadrilateral is the best with some minor changes like Kolkata to chennai via Hyderabad ,chennai to Mumbai via Bangalore and Mysore ,Mumbai to Delhi via Ahmedabad and Jaipur .
Agree except for slightly different alignments

International Rail Journal (http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/asia/indian-high-speed-rail-project-moves-forward.html?channel=542#.UE4B26AlrTo)


Indian high-speed project moves forward

INDIA's Railways Ministry says it expects to begin work soon on a detailed project report for the country's first high-speed line with the aim of inviting global tenders for the Rs 650bn ($US 11.8bn) Pune – Mumbai – Ahmedabad project by November 2013.

A pre-feasibility report jointly conducted by a consortium of Systra, France, Italffer, Italy, and Rites, India suggests annual ridership on the 650km route would be around 1.1 million.

Pre-feasibility studies have also been completed on three other corridors: Delhi – Lucknow – Patna (991km) Howrah – Haldia (135km) and Hyderabad – Chennai (664km). However, the Indian government has decided to concentrate initially on only the Pune – Mumbai – Ahmedabad corridor.

Japan Railway Technical Service (Jarts), Systra, and Mott MacDonald are among the companies that have offered to participate in the project.

"We are talking to the Chinese, Japanese and European governments about developing high-speed rail," a ministry official said.

A study conducted by the German Institute of Vehicle Concepts (DLR) indicates the potential for 35 possible high-speed lines in India, ranging from a distance of 289km (Chennai – Bangalore) to 778km (Delhi – Ahmedabad).

Meanwhile, the Indian government is also moving ahead with plans to establish a National High Speed Rail Authority (NHSRA). A bill to create this body, which will act as a facilitator and regulator for the high-speed network, has been prepared and is expected to be processed by parliament in November.

Draft NHRSA guidelines say that India will seek to implement the high speed projects as PPPs with two procurement options being considered. The first involves appointing a single developer to work on a Design, Build, Finance, Operate and Transfer (DBFOT) basis. The second would see projects tendered as separate contract. The aim would be to attract more bidders with greater affordability in terms of size and risk allocation.

^^ How many times DPR?? From last 20 years we are only doing DPR. Is this called Bharat Nirman??.

Approximately till today more than 20 DPR's are done on AMD-BOM sector.
:ohno:

^^To Abhinash, Govt. is already charging us for ATF more than any other countries.
In India even HSR and aviation can have good profits at a time. Main reason for having HSR in India compare to other countries is billion+ population and very little land compare to China and US. Just we need is good politics, policies and people.

Indian Railway is the most studied organization in the world. It suffers from 'implementation bug'. Cost of doing studies is nothing compared to actual implementation but gets sizeable media attention so IR find it amusing to keep producing report after report. I feel the only hope for HSR in India is from Kerala HSR because it is being headed by Mr. Shreedharan. If he can pull off this project, we would see many other HSR coming up in near future. Otherwise we would only be getting reports on various HSR from IR.

Deleted

Advantages of HSR over domestic aviation sector
1.It can transport much more number of people than our aviation sector.
2.Requires less land acquisitions.
3.will enable our economy to be less dependent on imported ATF which is hurting our economy to a great extent.
4.THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT....It will create huge no. of job opportunities during the construction phase and then during the operational phase.
5.It will definitely give the much needed impetus to our manufacturing sector like steel,iron,cement and electrical goods manufacturing sector.
6.It will drastically reduce air pollution which is caused by aviation sector.

So I think HSR is the future of transportation in India.Time to think about the future and go for 500kmph tracks. :)

Advantages of HSR over domestic aviation sector
1.It can transport much more number of people than our aviation sector.
2.Requires less land acquisitions.
3.will enable our economy to be less dependent on imported ATF which is hurting our economy to a great extent.
4.THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT....It will create huge no. of job opportunities during the construction phase and then during the operational phase.
5.It will definitely give the much needed impetus to our manufacturing sector like steel,iron,cement and electrical goods manufacturing sector.
6.It will drastically reduce air pollution which is caused by aviation sector.

So I think HSR is the future of transportation in India.Time to think about the future and go for 500kmph tracks. :)

Please elaborate when u say less land acquisition !!!!!

^^ How many times DPR?? From last 20 years we are only doing DPR. Is this called Bharat Nirman??.

Approximately till today more than 20 DPR's are done on AMD-BOM sector.
:ohno:

This is india man...u should be thankful dpr is going on for 20 years...thats a great acheivement man...be happy dpr dint take 40 years to get done...lol

Advantages of HSR over domestic aviation sector

2.Requires less land acquisitions.

So I think HSR is the future of transportation in India.Time to think about the future and go for 500kmph tracks. :)

Less land acquisitions compared to what ?? To build airports ?

500kmph will be a dream ... forever in India.

Less land acquisitions compared to what ?? To build airports ?

500kmph will be a dream ... forever in India.

500 km/h has not even been implemented anywhere yet. Forget India for a while.

Even running at 350/360 km/h constant is a challenge due to cost as power consumption of running trains at 350 km/h constant might not be cost effective and the resulting time reduction compared to a 300 km/h service is not large to justify such speed increase.

However, since your country (India) is planning new track from scratch at least you have the benefits of prior experience from other countries. For sure, such lines should be built at least to accommodate future 350 km/h operation.

500 km/h has not even been implemented anywhere yet. Forget India for a while.

Dont forget that there is always a first time..

^^ exactly!!

500 km/h has not even been implemented anywhere yet. Forget India for a while.

I think you are a typical pessimist Indian guy.The problem with us(Indians) that we don't dream big.We are satisfied with the little we get from our corrupt govt.As Dr.Kalam says dream big guys.Bill gates,steve jobs did d same and hence dominating the world of economics right now.

As far as 500kmph tracks statement is concerned,read the line again and again.I never said that we should go for locomotives with 500kmph from the word go,all I'm trying to say is that we should keep future in mind and hence go for tracks which can support a top speed of 500kmph.Unless we do this after 5 years of service,we gonna realize that the whole world is running at more than 600kmph and we are reeling behind with 300kmph.It makes no sense having so called HSR.We should try to compete with the world and hence gotta think a step ahead.

Less land acquisitions compared to what ?? To build airports ?

500kmph will be a dream ... forever in India.

Yes as compared to building airports,it requires less land acquisition.But to that we have to go for elevated tracks.The demography of our country is such that it's impossible to go for regular terrestrial tracks.It will take 50 years to complete just one route.So govt. should consider elevated tracks.

^^ How many times DPR?? From last 20 years we are only doing DPR. Is this called Bharat Nirman??.

Approximately till today more than 20 DPR's are done on AMD-BOM sector.
:ohno:

That's the secret of India's advanced Infrastructures..:lol:

Dont forget that there is always a first time..

I must say, its extremely likely that the fastest running train line in the world will be in India :lol:

I think you are a typical pessimist Indian guy.The problem with us(Indians) that we don't dream big.We are satisfied with the little we get from our corrupt govt.As Dr.Kalam says dream big guys.Bill gates,steve jobs did d same and hence dominating the world of economics right now.

As far as 500kmph tracks statement is concerned,read the line again and again.I never said that we should go for locomotives with 500kmph from the word go,all I'm trying to say is that we should keep future in mind and hence go for tracks which can support a top speed of 500kmph.Unless we do this after 5 years of service,we gonna realize that the whole world is running at more than 600kmph and we are reeling behind with 300kmph.It makes no sense having so called HSR.We should try to compete with the world and hence gotta think a step ahead.

We dream big. At least I do. We just do not seem to see the big dreams materialising.
By the way, unless we are China, there is no need to compete to make a train line. All we really need to do is make a good one.

Trains can run 500 km/h or so even on a new line that is rated 350 km/h or so (look at China, Japan and France etc.), however the issue is more on the train and power consumption rather than the track itself. Many of the attempts running at such speeds were done using specialised trains with shorter consist plus more powerful cars. Spain tested their regular train up to slightly above 400 km/h, but obviously they can't operate at such speed on regular commercial runs due to reasons that I outlined above.

France test trains at speeds in excess of 500 km/h, but concerns on issues such as power consumption and power collection for ordinary commercial operation at such speeds, precludes such operation on regular basis.

I think there is goal towards eventual operation to 360 km/h in France using newer Alstom AGV. In your country case, as long as the track is sufficiently built for at least 300 km/h commercial running basis (with large curve radius), it shouldn't a problem to run higher speed trains in future, as the issues now are mainly on the rolling stock and its associated issues such as power etc. Economics come in play as well.

TOI (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/IIT-Kharagpur-helps-Indian-rail-speed-up/articleshow/16379770.cms?)
IIT Kharagpur helps Indian rail speed up

KOLKATA: At a time when the world has reached a speed of 330 kilometres per hour on rail, the best that India could achieve has been a little over 130 kilometres per hour. But it is high time that we too sped up, feels the Indian Railways and with this intent, it has entrusted IIT Kharagpur with the responsibility of providing the technological knowhow. The research is to happen at the newly opened Railway Research Centre of IIT Kharagpur and work has already started. The goal is to immediately increase the maximum attainable speed to 200 kilometres per hour.
Experts who have workd in the railway board are however askance. They feel that over the past two decades the focus of the railways has been to keep the fare low, even if it is at the cost of not improving the infrastructure or spending to augment safety of rail travel. To introduce high speed trains the centre will have to re-lay tracks at a cost of Rs 100 crores per kilometer, which is a mammoth expenditure that the railways are not prepared for. So why this exercise?

The project that IIT Kharagpur has received is four pronged and is aimed at improving not only the speed but the general efficiency of moving trains, keeping the present infrastructure in mind. A total of three years time has been allotted to the centre within which time it should come up with solutions to the specific problems that have been earmarked by the Railway Board, the apex administrative body of the Indian Railways.

Four broad areas have been identified as "immediate needs" by the railways - improving speed, imrpoving carrying capacity (heavy haul), use of advanced material, advanced signalling and maintenance for better safety. A total of eight IIT Kgp departments have started work in tandem for this.

"Speed is a priority for the railways at the moment. However, as things stand now, it is not possible to haul it up from the existing 130 kilometres per hour to the desired 330 kilometres per hour. Countries that have been able to achieve this use a completely different rail technology. So we have decided to do it in stages. We will first provide the technical support that will help to increase the speed to 200 kilometres per hour," explained Siddhartha Mukherjee, a senior faculty member who heads the centre and is leading the research.

Nearly 100 faculty members and research scholars are working together on the project that involves electrical, ciomputer science, mechanical, metallurgy, civil, rubber technology, electronics and aeronautical engineering departments. There is a lot of excitement on campus over this mammoth project and faculty members say that a project of such magnitude has never been tried before.

One of the key experiments happenening at the moment in the institute's laboratories is whether a different quality of steel should be used both in the construction of the rails as well as the coaches. One of the options that the scientists are looking at, is Bainitic Steel. "It is unparalleled in its malleability and ductility. The most advanced railway systems in the world have already been using this steel. However, we will also have to consider mass availability of this kind of steel and the cost effectiveness," informed Mukherjee. This steel is being considered especially because the Railway Board has asked the institute to provide the knowhow so that the load carrying capacity can be sharply increased. "We will have to use the hypothetical load and study the resultant stress and strain over a long period of time before arriving at a conclusion. The material used to build the compartments and the design of the compartments will also go through changes to increase efficiency," said a faculty member involved in the project.

The recent spate of accidents have also induced the railways to ask the institute to imrpove the signalling quality. While in the more advanced systems in the world, fully computerised cab signalling is in vogue, India still follows the old rail side signalling technique. "We have been told that the idea was not to completely change the old pattern but to improve efficieny of the existing signalling system by developing an analytic signalling logic design tool," Mukherjee explained.

While briefing the institute about the future safety standards that the railway board had set out to achieve through indigenous technological support, the institute was asked to improve the efficiency of hundreds of railway bridges. "We are developing a censor system that will study the vibrations and wear and tear caused everytime that a train moves through a bridge. This will be charted on graphs so that the maximum strain can be studied and plotted to see if strengthening of the bridge is needed. The censor will be able to identify the spots on the bridge that need reinforcement," Mukherjee said.

SR Thakur, former additional member of the railway board feels that a national debate should start on whether the priority of the railways is to augment speed or whether it is to improve safety. "Huge funds are needed if high speed trains that run above 180 kilometres per hour are introduced. That is because the existing tracks will have to be taken out and new tracks laid. These tracks will have to be made of a different quality steel and will have to be laid on an elevated platform with no level crossings in between. Also the present kind of signaling will not work and cab signaling will have to be introduced. To do this Rs 100 crores per kilometer will have to be spent. Where will this money come from?" Thakur asked.

how about vacuum tube train between mumbai-delhi in half an hour? very much fuel efficient and it is 4 times faster than aircraft at 6000 km/h:

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/sci0404train_730x500.jpg
http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-04/trans-atlantic-maglev

how about vacuum tube train between mumbai-delhi in half an hour? very much fuel efficient and it is 4 times faster than aircraft at 6000 km/h:

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/sci0404train_730x500.jpg
http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-04/trans-atlantic-maglev

:bash:
it WONT START WITH 6000 kmph at time t=0 i.e. infinite acceleration!!!! It iwill take 17 mins to gain 6000 kmph at 9g acceleration, another 17 mins to stop from 6000 kmph. ultimately it will complete the distance before it gains the top speed :lol:

IIT Kharagpur helps Indian rail speed up....blah blah blah. Its all bullshit. It is only for public consuption. Increasing the sectional speed to 200 kmph does not require any new technology. Trains have been running at this speed for ages all over the world. IR only need to upgrade its network by widely available RS, Track, Signalling solutions for these speeds. It can start by upgrading Mum-Delhi or Delhi-Kol (would also please Mamata). There is lot of saturation on these lines. We may increase the capacity of these lines which may earn good revenue for IR.
Since IR do not have the vision, they are engaged in cheap, populist ,widely publicised study exercise done by IIT. IIT is not an expert in rail transportation. Enough of study, IR is suffering from 'implementation bug'. Get over this and start doing something on ground.

^^ that is just another west bengal welfare scheme.. dont bother outcome :cheers:

:bash:
it WONT START WITH 6000 kmph at time t=0 i.e. infinite acceleration!!!! It iwill take 17 mins to gain 6000 kmph at 9g acceleration, another 17 mins to stop from 6000 kmph. ultimately it will complete the distance before it gains the top speed :lol:

dude flight accelerates for 5 mins and mumbai-delhi in 2.5 hours.. what if train accelerates for half an hour? u did some calculation mistake

how about vacuum tube train between mumbai-delhi in half an hour? very much fuel efficient and it is 4 times faster than aircraft at 6000 km/h:

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/sci0404train_730x500.jpg
http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-04/trans-atlantic-maglev

But tell me how will u implement it? How will u create Vaccum in the tunnel which has to start and stop at stations which cant be vaccumed. Just cant get the mechanism. Till which point from the station will the vaccuming start and how will you create the difference without physical barrier between normal air and vaccum of the tunnel?

^^
As I remember that is a schematic for a train between Europe and USA in north Atlantic. more of a fantasy for now.

The IIT kgp study is good because the research is on how to implement these high speeds on current tracks and what changes are necessary and important. IIT kgp has very good expertise in Electronics, CS and Electrical Engineering.

BTW that is what research universities are for .. they help companies and government do research and in process train and teach new generation of students.

Though after research the process of implementation is where our great IR gets stuck :)

But tell me how will u implement it? How will u create Vaccum in the tunnel which has to start and stop at stations which cant be vaccumed. Just cant get the mechanism. Till which point from the station will the vaccuming start and how will you create the difference without physical barrier between normal air and vaccum of the tunnel?

it is easy to create vacuum.. upto 100m 1 bar pressure, next 100m 0.5 bar, next 100m 0.25 bar, there after 0.01 bar vacuum :banana2: only capital cost is more.. tunnel at ground level is cheaper. mumbai to delhi route is worth the capital investment

^^
As I remember that is a schematic for a train between Europe and USA in north Atlantic. more of a fantasy for now.

The IIT kgp study is good because the research is on how to implement these high speeds on current tracks and what changes are necessary and important. IIT kgp has very good expertise in Electronics, CS and Electrical Engineering.

BTW that is what research universities are for .. they help companies and government do research and in process train and teach new generation of students.

Though after research the process of implementation is where our great IR gets stuck :)

My point is why to waste time in reinventing the wheel. The technology is widely available for the speed in excess of 200 kmph. IR needs to identify route, arrange for finance, award contract , implement it in reasonable time. Roping in IIT, KGP is nothing but an eyewash. If at all ITTs are roped in, they should be asked to work for advancement in the already available knowledge.:)

I agree the technology is available but it involves creation of new infrastructure. If they are not looking at a copy paste solution then they need to do research to fit a particular solution to Indian needs, also its not just about running trains exactly same way as say france does but more about improving it to fit Indian conditions.

This kind of research is important if we need to move over just importing solutions rather than crating it. though it has nothing to with implementation and that is a separate issue.

Rajdhani-like coaches for all trains

KAPURTHALA (PUNJAB)/ AMRITSAR: Stainless steel seems to be future for Indian railways desperately trying to increase the life span of its coaches and wagons and increase the general safety standards in its network.

In an ambitious move, the railways have decided to replace all its traditional blue coloured Express train ICF coaches with the new and popular stainless steel made LHB coaches that are now being used in only select trains that include Rajdhanis, Shatabdis and Durantos.

All the LHB coaches will be made of stainless steel, making the coaches lighter and with a life span ranging between 30-35 years instead of the usual 20-25 years. The target is to replace all rakes of running express trains to LHB by the end of 2016. In the beginning, the AC rakes are to be replaced.

The Rail Coach Factory (RCF) Kapurthala which is making such coaches has been instructed to also step up production of AC coaches in general keeping in view the ever increasing popularity in AC travel — one of the cheapest mode of air-conditioned travel around the world.

From a mere 16 per cent of total coaches produced a couple of years back, the AC coaches now constitute 36 per cent of the 1500 coaches produced annually by the RCF. According to B N Rajsekhar, general manager, RCF, they have also begun the production of non AC LHB coaches for the first time.

"A train in Punjab is already running on LHB normal sleeper coaches. We are now trying to gift Northern Railway LHB coaches on its busiest route — the Delhi-Patna-Dhanbad route. These coaches will begin running soon.

These trains can run at a maximum speed of 160 Km/ hr instead of the usual 120 Km/hr with top speed braking within 1.1 km. These can be upgraded easily with very small changes to run at a maximum speed of 200km/ hr,'' he said.



Source (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/railways/rajdhani-like-coaches-for-all-trains/articleshow/16431953.cms)

India's first high-speed rail around the corner

India expects to begin work soon on a project to build the country's first high-speed line connecting the cities of Pune, Mumbai and Ahmedabad. According to local media, India's railways ministry has said it expects to begin work on the project by November 2013. The 650 km-long (403 miles) corridor will carry trains travelling at 300 km/h (186 m/h), cutting the travel for passengers between Mumbai and Ahmedabad from seven hours to two and a half hours. Studies made by a group of consultancy firms suggest that the annual demand for the line would be around 1.1 million passengers.
After the United States, Russia and China, India is the fourth country with the largest rail network, but the country does not have any high-speed rail lines. The fastest train in India, the Bhopal Shatabdi, currently has a top speed of 150 km/h (93 mph).

High-speed trains have been introduced by France, Germany, Japan and China among other countries, and can provide economic benefits in countries such as India where more than 20 million passengers use the train per day as the main means of transport.

Start by November 2013 you say? hmmm

Start by November 2013 you say? hmmm

:lol: Even that will be pushed back due to potential land aq. issues, bureaucratic red tape, environmental clearances, general elections, and God knows what else... Just hope that a Medha Patkar does not sniff for trouble in this project.

TOI (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Railway-ministry-plans-to-set-up-National-High-Speed-Rail-Authority/articleshow/16436289.cms)
Railway ministry plans to set up National High Speed Rail Authority

MUMBAI: The Indian Railways does a commendable job transporting an estimated 20 million people to the remotest parts of the country every day. Yet, modernisation eludes it even as nations like China and South Korea have stolen a march over us.

Indian Railways may have the most extensive network in the world, but its trains still run at speeds between 60 kmph to 130 kmph. Successive populist union rail ministers have turned down every attempt to raise fares, which would have helped upgrade the network and offer more comfort to commuters.

So far, the ministry has only proposed feasibility studies for high speed trains. The ministry of railways, in consultation with state governments, proposed high speed corridors between Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar, Pune- Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Hyderabad-Dornakal-Vijaywada-Chennai, Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulum, Howrah-Haldia and Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna. The ministry also planned to set up a National High Speed Rail Authority for standard setting, implementing and monitoring these projects. The estimated cost of construction cost per km would be up to Rs 100 crore.

The Railways intends to run high-speed passenger trains at about 250 kmph on these routes.

While India's ambitions are still on paper, Japan, which was completely devastated in world war II, introduced its first Bullet Train way back in 1964. The Shinkansen— as the Bullet Train is more popularly known all over Japan— revolutionised train travel when it took to the tracks, touching speeds of 210 kms an hour.

Today, it criss-crosses across Japan at speeds of upto 300 kms an hour. This correspondent was fortunate to travel on a bullet train some years ago. We were on our way to the city of Kitakyushu, a distance of 67.2 kms from Fukuoka. At precisely 12.59 pm, the Shinkansen starts its run. The urban landscape whizzes past the window at almost the same speed as a Boeing 737 taking off a runway. The scenery changes so swiftly, it is hard to believe a train can move so fast. At exactly 1.15 pm, our Shinkansen enters the Kokura station in Kitakyushu—a distance of 67.2 kms covered in just 16 minutes. It is akin to travelling from Churchgate station to Palghar (a little beyond Virar) in such little time.

Hopefully, someday in the distant future, a passenger will be able to travel between Mumbai and Ahmedabad in less than three hours.

TOI (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Railway-ministry-plans-to-set-up-National-High-Speed-Rail-Authority/articleshow/16436289.cms)
Railway ministry plans to set up National High Speed Rail Authority

MUMBAI: The Indian Railways does a commendable job transporting an estimated 20 million people to the remotest parts of the country every day. Yet, modernisation eludes it even as nations like China and South Korea have stolen a march over us.

Indian Railways may have the most extensive network in the world, but its trains still run at speeds between 60 kmph to 130 kmph. Successive populist union rail ministers have turned down every attempt to raise fares, which would have helped upgrade the network and offer more comfort to commuters.

So far, the ministry has only proposed feasibility studies for high speed trains. The ministry of railways, in consultation with state governments, proposed high speed corridors between Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar, Pune- Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Hyderabad-Dornakal-Vijaywada-Chennai, Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulum, Howrah-Haldia and Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna. The ministry also planned to set up a National High Speed Rail Authority for standard setting, implementing and monitoring these projects. The estimated cost of construction cost per km would be up to Rs 100 crore.

The Railways intends to run high-speed passenger trains at about 250 kmph on these routes.



The National High Speed Rail Authority has been in "proposal" stage for 1.5 years now. If they can't setup an office and staff some bureaucrats in 1.5 years, what hope do we have of the actual implementation in 20 years time?

The post#2 in this thread talks about NHSRA in March 2011.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=74675615&postcount=2

TOI (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Railway-ministry-plans-to-set-up-National-High-Speed-Rail-Authority/articleshow/16436289.cms)
Railway ministry plans to set up National High Speed Rail Authority

MUMBAI: The Indian Railways does a commendable job transporting an estimated 20 million people to the remotest parts of the country every day. Yet, modernisation eludes it even as nations like China and South Korea have stolen a march over us.

Indian Railways may have the most extensive network in the world, but its trains still run at speeds between 60 kmph to 130 kmph. Successive populist union rail ministers have turned down every attempt to raise fares, which would have helped upgrade the network and offer more comfort to commuters.

So far, the ministry has only proposed feasibility studies for high speed trains. The ministry of railways, in consultation with state governments, proposed high speed corridors between Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar, Pune- Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Hyderabad-Dornakal-Vijaywada-Chennai, Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulum, Howrah-Haldia and Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna. The ministry also planned to set up a National High Speed Rail Authority for standard setting, implementing and monitoring these projects. The estimated cost of construction cost per km would be up to Rs 100 crore.

The Railways intends to run high-speed passenger trains at about 250 kmph on these routes.

While India's ambitions are still on paper, Japan, which was completely devastated in world war II, introduced its first Bullet Train way back in 1964. The Shinkansen— as the Bullet Train is more popularly known all over Japan— revolutionised train travel when it took to the tracks, touching speeds of 210 kms an hour.

Today, it criss-crosses across Japan at speeds of upto 300 kms an hour. This correspondent was fortunate to travel on a bullet train some years ago. We were on our way to the city of Kitakyushu, a distance of 67.2 kms from Fukuoka. At precisely 12.59 pm, the Shinkansen starts its run. The urban landscape whizzes past the window at almost the same speed as a Boeing 737 taking off a runway. The scenery changes so swiftly, it is hard to believe a train can move so fast. At exactly 1.15 pm, our Shinkansen enters the Kokura station in Kitakyushu—a distance of 67.2 kms covered in just 16 minutes. It is akin to travelling from Churchgate station to Palghar (a little beyond Virar) in such little time.

Hopefully, someday in the distant future, a passenger will be able to travel between Mumbai and Ahmedabad in less than three hours.

Distant future..see the official is himself telling the truth..so he means after 40-50 years...distant future...:banana:

dude flight accelerates for 5 mins and mumbai-delhi in 2.5 hours.. what if train accelerates for half an hour? u did some calculation mistake

He said that acceleration has to be 9g for such speed and distance. 9g means 9 times more acceleration than "acceleration due to gravity" or about 90 times more acceleration than a metro train. This much acceleration might even crush the human body.

how about vacuum tube train between mumbai-delhi in half an hour? very much fuel efficient and it is 4 times faster than aircraft at 6000 km/h:

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/sci0404train_730x500.jpg
http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-04/trans-atlantic-maglev

what about gravity train?? :banana::lol::lol:

EapvQ3ALYJY

TOI (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/State-requests-bullet-train-from-Mumbai-to-Nagpur/articleshow/16619486.cms)

State requests ‘bullet train’ from Mumbai to Nagpur

MUMBAI: The state government has asked the railways to consider providing connectivity to the proposed Navi Mumbai international airport through the Mumbai-Ahmedabad high-speed rail corridor. It has also suggested that a similar high-speed project be contemplated between Mumbai and Nagpur.

Chief ministerPrithviraj Chavan made the two recommendations to railway board chairman Vinay Mittal on Saturday. The railways have been asked to make presentations on both the Mumbai-Ahmedabad project and the suggested Mumbai-Nagpur corridor, a source said.

A pre-feasibility report on the 497-km Mumbai-Ahmedabad high-speed rail corridor—which is estimated to cost Rs 60,000 crore—is already complete. Touted as the most technologically advanced rail project in the country, the corridor will reduce the travel time between the two state capitals from seven hours (as currently taken by Duronto Express) to two and a half hours.

Officials pointed out that the major portion of the corridor, as planned so far, will pass through Gujarat. The state government wants the corridor to provide connectivity to the proposed international airport in Navi Mumbai as well as perhaps Wadala to ensure that Maharashtra too gets maximum benefit from the project. Meanwhile, a high-speed rail corridor between Mumbai and Nagpur was suggested during the Saturday meeting to boost Nagpur's growth, officials said.

Eager to fast-track the Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor, the Centre recently set up the High Speed Rail Corporation of India (HSRC). A subsidiary of Rail Vikas Nigam Ltd, HSRC will conduct project-related studies, draw up technical standards, and additionally help the government finalize financial and implementation models.

Don't knw when the attitude of "my state... my state" would change... It's India's high speed rail.. not any state's high speed rail..

Obviously the people who have done project research (DPR) are well aware that the Ahd-Mum is one of the busiest route and shortest between two important cities..

So, it's worth to spend and test (trial) the HSR in this route...

TOI (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/State-requests-bullet-train-from-Mumbai-to-Nagpur/articleshow/16619486.cms)

State requests ‘bullet train’ from Mumbai to Nagpur

I still feel Delhi-Kolkata should be given more importance or at least equal importance as Mumbai-Ahmedabad-Pune-Surat. I feel so because eastern corridor needs a boost in terms of economic activity much more than the western or southern corridors do. Also, from Delhi-Kolkata you have 400 million people, much more than 100 million people in MH and 50 million in GJ. :)

P.S. I am saying this as someone from MH.

How will a HSR line give boost to economic activity when it is supposed to be for passenger travel and it passing through the poorest part of the country?

Aren't we already seeing the Dedicated Freight Corridor in the Delhi-Calcutta route which would actually translate into higher economic activity?

Mumbai -GJ line is the best bet along with Chennai - Bangalore one, IMO, for HSR.

True.

I still feel Delhi-Kolkata should be given more importance or at least equal importance as Mumbai-Ahmedabad-Pune-Surat. I feel so because eastern corridor needs a boost in terms of economic activity much more than the western or southern corridors do. Also, from Delhi-Kolkata you have 400 million people, much more than 100 million people in MH and 50 million in GJ. :)

P.S. I am saying this as someone from MH.

do you want Bullet train passing through UP-Bihar and Ruin the HSR plan completely? And are there masses to even pay that much price for travel when most of the people there travel for free.....:lol::lol:

I still feel Delhi-Kolkata should be given more importance or at least equal importance as Mumbai-Ahmedabad-Pune-Surat. I feel so because eastern corridor needs a boost in terms of economic activity much more than the western or southern corridors do. Also, from Delhi-Kolkata you have 400 million people, much more than 100 million people in MH and 50 million in GJ. :)

P.S. I am saying this as someone from MH.

I will respectfully disagree. I don't oppose a Delhi-Kolkata line. It should be built. But I think Mumbai-Ahmedabad or Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad-Jaipur-Delhi should be attempted before the Delhi-Kolkata line. Because that is where the chance of recovering investment is maximum. IMO the southern triangle of Chennai-Bangalore-Hyderabad also has good potential similar to the Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad belt.
Once a first line is operational the authorities will have a better handle over the problems and issues with building a high speed line. Also by then people in areas where potential HSR lines can be built will be more aware of its benefits and will be eager to have it built and use it.
e.g Volvo buses were first introduced in the southern states and MH since there was a ready demand for those services (due to the prosperity and awareness brought about by industrialization in some belts). Gradually the volvo buses were adopted by other states and one can see them in relatively lower income states like assam and bihar (no offense please). Similarly, Air travel has also been democratized gradually with budget services reaching even the Tier 3 cities.
Anyways in case of HSR the states also have to shell out handsome amounts to get them built. MH and GJ are ready to invest. Are UP, Bihar, Jharkhand and WB ready to commit investment and other resources to get the Kolkata-Delhi line completed??

do you want Bullet train passing through UP-Bihar and Ruin the HSR plan completely? And are there masses to even pay that much price for travel when most of the people there travel for free.....:lol::lol:

Typical ignorant comment. Do you think people travel for free in the Rajdhanis/Shatabdis or even the AC coaches of the normal express trains running though UP/Bihar?

Typical ignorant comment. Do you think people travel for free in the Rajdhanis/Shatabdis or even the AC coaches of the normal express trains running though UP/Bihar?

Bullet train needs power a lot of power. Dont u think the govt should give power to up/ bihar so that they can get some industries first and then they can think of getting a bullet train

Please dont subsidise bullet train fares as well. Else it will be another IR in the making

Soon: Bullet trains for tortoise tracks


The railways have decided to go in for six bullet train-sets at an estimated cost of Rs. 25,000 crore and an announcement is expected in the next rail budget. Bullet trains are capable of clocking a speed of 325 kilometres per hour. But in the absence of requisite infrastructure, these will run at an 110 kmph on existing broad-gauge routes.

Japanese, French and German consortia are in the race to sell these train-sets, even as the Japanese are sponsoring a study on high-speed rail possibilities in India.

Justifying the “piecemeal and premature” acquisition proposal, an official said, “Such projects have a long gestation period, but one has to start somewhere.”

The Japanese consortium has quoted a price of Rs. 54 crore per coach — the cost of the train-set working out to approximately Rs. 900 crore
“We will go in for some mix-and-match to negotiate a better price. Each train-set should come at a cost of about Rs. 300 to Rs. 400 cr,” an official said.

how come 6 coaches @ 900 crores requires 25,000 crores.....the mega scams have created a confusion so we seem lost the value of money..

Is the bullet train technology so sophisticated that we still have to depend on foreign players?

Soon: Bullet trains for tortoise tracks


The railways have decided to go in for six bullet train-sets at an estimated cost of Rs. 25,000 crore and an announcement is expected in the next rail budget. Bullet trains are capable of clocking a speed of 325 kilometres per hour. But in the absence of requisite infrastructure, these will run at an 110 kmph on existing broad-gauge routes.

Japanese, French and German consortia are in the race to sell these train-sets, even as the Japanese are sponsoring a study on high-speed rail possibilities in India.

Justifying the “piecemeal and premature” acquisition proposal, an official said, “Such projects have a long gestation period, but one has to start somewhere.”

The Japanese consortium has quoted a price of Rs. 54 crore per coach — the cost of the train-set working out to approximately Rs. 900 crore
“We will go in for some mix-and-match to negotiate a better price. Each train-set should come at a cost of about Rs. 300 to Rs. 400 cr,” an official said.

how come 6 coaches @ 900 crores requires 25,000 crores.....the mega scams have created a confusion so we seem lost the value of money..
They must be out of their mind they are crazy.Bullet trains are for faster travel and they will travel at only 110km/h.their is no difference btwn our great IR rolling stock and these high speed coaches:lol::lol::rofl:

Soon: Bullet trains for tortoise tracks

how come 6 coaches @ 900 crores requires 25,000 crores.....the mega scams have created a confusion so we seem lost the value of money..

:lol::lol::lol: Well caught am sure if this had not been highlighted by u I would have missed it as well... 6 x 900 does not even come close to 25,000 and maybe if it had been 2,500 then I would have thought it wsa some mistake of adding additional zeros...

Soon: Bullet trains for tortoise tracks


The railways have decided to go in for six bullet train-sets at an estimated cost of Rs. 25,000 crore and an announcement is expected in the next rail budget. Bullet trains are capable of clocking a speed of 325 kilometres per hour. But in the absence of requisite infrastructure, these will run at an 110 kmph on existing broad-gauge routes.

Japanese, French and German consortia are in the race to sell these train-sets, even as the Japanese are sponsoring a study on high-speed rail possibilities in India.

Justifying the “piecemeal and premature” acquisition proposal, an official said, “Such projects have a long gestation period, but one has to start somewhere.”

The Japanese consortium has quoted a price of Rs. 54 crore per coach — the cost of the train-set working out to approximately Rs. 900 crore
“We will go in for some mix-and-match to negotiate a better price. Each train-set should come at a cost of about Rs. 300 to Rs. 400 cr,” an official said.

how come 6 coaches @ 900 crores requires 25,000 crores.....the mega scams have created a confusion so we seem lost the value of money..
What is the source of this info.
In 2006, China bought 60 train sets from Kawasaki for 9.3 billion renminbi i.e Rs 7800 crores. 6 trainsets would cost Rs 780 crores.
Siemens was charging Renminbi 350 million per trainset which translates to Rs 300 crore per trainset.
Still the costs of trainsets is very high, I believe because the manufacturers are charging for the advanced technology.
Slightly slower trainsets (reaching 200-230 km/h) like ones seen in UK, Italy (pendolinos) or Sweden (X2000) may cost much less.

do you want Bullet train passing through UP-Bihar and Ruin the HSR plan completely? And are there masses to even pay that much price for travel when most of the people there travel for free.....:lol::lol:

Foolish comment. You need to visit Bihar and UP. here are people who can book entire bullet train. You understand.

Foolish comment. You need to visit Bihar and UP. here are people who can book entire bullet train. You understand.

If you build this Bullet between Delhi - Kolakata its going to be a costly blunder. Wait till 2030. But Bangalore Chennai is a very promising route today!

If you build this Bullet between Delhi - Kolakata its going to be a costly blunder. Wait till 2030. But Bangalore Chennai is a very promising route today!

:lol:

India in talks to buy first bullet trains: Report (http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-in-talks-to-buy-first-bullet-trains-report-275023):cheers::cheers:

http://www.ndtv.com/news/images/india_bullet_train_295x200.jpg

New Delhi: India is in talks to buy its first bullet trains for the nation's creaking and accident-prone network, but the new fleet will run at only a fraction of its top speed, a report said on Wednesday.

The government is speaking to Japanese, French and German manufacturers to purchase six new trains, which are capable of running at speeds of up to 325 kilometres (202 miles) per hour, the Hindustan Times newspaper reported.

"Such projects have a long gestation period, but one has to start somewhere," the newspaper quoted an anonymous official as saying in its report headlined: "Soon: Bullet trains for tortoise tracks".

:lol:

Plus why do we keep forgetting that building this bullet train corridor would require plenty of land and dont you think people in that part of the country dont giveup land easily even if its for their own development !:bash::bash:

India in talks to buy first bullet trains: Report (http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-in-talks-to-buy-first-bullet-trains-report-275023):cheers::cheers:

http://www.ndtv.com/news/images/india_bullet_train_295x200.jpg

New Delhi: India is in talks to buy its first bullet trains for the nation's creaking and accident-prone network, but the new fleet will run at only a fraction of its top speed, a report said on Wednesday.

The government is speaking to Japanese, French and German manufacturers to purchase six new trains, which are capable of running at speeds of up to 325 kilometres (202 miles) per hour, the Hindustan Times newspaper reported.

"Such projects have a long gestation period, but one has to start somewhere," the newspaper quoted an anonymous official as saying in its report headlined: "Soon: Bullet trains for tortoise tracks".

But where are the tracks...still tracks for 300+ km not yet started to construct oly...or will they procure these trains and run at normal speed..that will be a huge loss...apart from speed such trains have luxury which can be provided using normal rajdhani's and shatabdi's...

Instead of buying new trains IR could just have BEML or ICF or Bombardier manufacture MEMUs with better design and powerful power units. Alternatively they can modify the outer shell of a WAP4/WAP5s to fit into a streamlined trainset at either ends. The ICE experimental trainset in germany was actually made by modifying two locomotives into power cars.

But where are the tracks...still tracks for 300+ km not yet started to construct oly...or will they procure these trains and run at normal speed..that will be a huge loss...apart from speed such trains have luxury which can be provided using normal rajdhani's and shatabdi's...

These trains are capable of running @325 kmph, but will run at 150-60, on indian tracks,as proposed in railway budget, they will upgrade tracks to 200 kmph. then it will be useful, this is an excellent move. introduction of dedicated lines for bullet trains will take some years, these will be the first step for that, it will give exposure, there is always a first time.even we will ride on the same trains on dedicated tracks, till then we can enjoy these trains.!! :cheers::cheers:

Is the bullet train technology so sophisticated that we still have to depend on foreign players?

We can't even make decent normal speed trains. Now you are talking about Bullet trains, are you serious?

Come on.. We make space launch vehicles and ballistic missiles..

How difficult this could be compared to those things?

Be realistic. Don't compare ISRO and DRDO to local train manufacturers. They don't have any standards.

The latter aren't scientists.

Be realistic. Don't compare ISRO and DRDO to local train manufacturers. They don't have any standards.

The latter aren't scientists.

We need private sector in manufacturing trains

Be realistic. Don't compare ISRO and DRDO to local train manufacturers. They don't have any standards.

The latter aren't scientists.

By 'we' I didn't exactly mean IR organizations..

Who knows, if private players like Tata, mahindra etc are given the task, they might be able to do it.. Of course, with Govt support.

No offense, Neither Tata nor Mahindra have any sense of design while they might have standards. This is why we need to bring in International players to force local industries to put a massive effort in R&D to make good looking trains with good standards.

ISRO and DRDO have spend decades in developing launch vehicles and missiles. How can one expect Tata or Mahindra to build a bullet train from scratch.

L&T has a Railway Business Unit !

Does it manufacture anything close to a bullet train?

Does it manufacture anything close to a bullet train?

We have to start once. Who knows maybe by 2020 we may develop something similar !

http://www.larsentoubro.com/lntcorporate/common/ui_templates/HtmlContainer.aspx?res=P_RAILWAY_AABL_AOV

L&T is going to enter in the manufacturing of locomotives and coaches !

Promising!!! Lets just hope they come up with good designs based in it speed. Aerodynamic shapes.

Promising!!! Lets just hope they come up with good designs based in it speed. Aerodynamic shapes.

I am an ex L&Tite and I am sure nothing is impossible for L&T

^^

Why to waste time and money on research while we can just buy it. ISRO and DRDO are important involving private companies can risk the country so we developed that but I don't think buying a train will cause anything then buy it don't waste anything

We are not a small country. If HSR does take off, we need a lot of train sets over the next few decades. We will constantly end up paying a premium for buying these train sets from outside. The better option would be to negotiate some form of technology transfer agreements....

The idea of indian company manufacturing high speed trains is good. But we can not hold up projects till some Indian company is ready with this technology. If the orders are there surely Indian compnies will start investing in these technology and will compete with international players. In automobile initially the automobiles were imported but now we see may Indian companies doing good in this sector. Till the time market forces do not encourage indian companies to manufacture these trains, we should be happy to byu it from where ever available. The important point is since middle class is ready to pay and they should be provided HSR network.
IR, as always, has got strange way of doing things. What is the need to procure high speed trains when tracks are not ready.

These trains are capable of running @325 kmph, but will run at 150-60, on indian tracks,as proposed in railway budget, they will upgrade tracks to 200 kmph. then it will be useful, this is an excellent move. introduction of dedicated lines for bullet trains will take some years, these will be the first step for that, it will give exposure, there is always a first time.even we will ride on the same trains on dedicated tracks, till then we can enjoy these trains.!! :cheers::cheers:

As far I heard mum-delhi and delhi Jaipur routes were planned for upgradation. Later del-jaipur route was planned for conventional HSR route. Any news regarding mum-delhi route...official estimates indicated that the cost of upgradation would be around 5500 crores. Also it was mentioned that work on this route would be started soon...it will be a very mature and good step to upgrade tracks....also waiting to see such EMU's in India...sooon...:banana:

We have to start once. Who knows maybe by 2020 we may develop something similar !

2020 seems to be too early but I believe, it can be done by 2030. But here we were talking about buying some trains to run on the existing tracks. Indian companies cannot fulfill that order or the other expected orders if we manage to build HSR line(s) by 2020.

I am an ex L&Tite and I am sure nothing is impossible for L&T

Yeah I know. My uncle worked there too. L&T has standards. I'm sure they will do a good job if they build bullet trains.

Yeah I know. My uncle worked there too. L&T has standards. I'm sure they will do a good job if they build bullet trains.

Largest Coal gasifier, to largest refinery plant (Jamnagar) L&T has manufactured and acheived many records, may they acheive the goal of building the fastest train in world too.

Why is this thread created?>????


If all forumers talk that HSR cant be made, IR is a crap, IR cant do anything, then WHY is this thread created?????

Why is this thread created?>????


If all forumers talk that HSR cant be made, IR is a crap, IR cant do anything, then WHY is this thread created?????

Bhai, naraaz na ho.

Indians are like that........very emotional they get easily charged up or dishearten too.:lol:

I have full faith the Indian Railways have the capability its just the politicians who have ruined it.

Just hope that the Railways also gets to see the reforms and gets on track. :cheers:

^^ :lol: even i got fed up of all this thing, i am surprised by there thinking, when not much progress was going then everybody was saying, this will not happen, this is political stunt, when they approved that and made dpr, then they said, it will be ready in 2050 if even that possible, but when even prime minister said he will support this fully and e.shridharan also said india will het it by 2021, then people don't want to believe and saying indian railways should be upgrade, and when now they are taking bullet trains to india, no matter will not run on dedicated tracks, but definately be the first step for that, then people are saying we should purchase emu, india cannot make this, this will cost us,tata-mahindra is not gud,rocket science is easy than this,drdo-isro are morons.etc. etc. etc.
firstly decides u wants that or not, this is a mega project, u can't pickup tracks and put up anywhere,whenevr u want and start running bullet trains on that, that's not big thing, and no doubt india will get in near future, india is buliding most no. of metro projects at the moment, delhi metro is the largest rapid transit u/c at the moment, if we can manage that, than can also do this, it's just this is the first time that people are talking like that, once one line being built, it will carry on fluently after that.don't forget there is always a first time.!!:cheers:

2020 seems to be too early but I believe, it can be done by 2030. But here we were talking about buying some trains to run on the existing tracks. Indian companies cannot fulfill that order or the other expected orders if we manage to build HSR line(s) by 2020.

A 500 km track can be built in around 7 years average if good companies are involved and politicians don't cause trouble. Ya even I do agree 2020 is a slim target but at least if work starts within 2-3 years hopefully within 2025 we can see conventional HSR lines...

^^ :lol: even i got fed up of all this thing, i am surprised by there thinking, when not much progress was going then everybody was saying, this will not happen, this is political stunt, when they approved that and made dpr, then they said, it will be ready in 2050 if even that possible, but when even prime minister said he will support this fully and e.shridharan also said india will het it by 2021, then people don't want to believe and saying indian railways should be upgrade, and when now they are taking bullet trains to india, no matter will not run on dedicated tracks, but definately be the first step for that, then people are saying we should purchase emu, india cannot make this, this will cost us,tata-mahindra is not gud,rocket science is easy than this,drdo-isro are morons.etc. etc. etc.
firstly decides u wants that or not, this is a mega project, u can't pickup tracks and put up anywhere,whenevr u want and start running bullet trains on that, that's not big thing, and no doubt india will get in near future, india is buliding most no. of metro projects at the moment, delhi metro is the largest rapid transit u/c at the moment, if we can manage that, than can also do this, it's just this is the first time that people are talking like that, once one line being built, it will carry on fluently after that.don't forget there is always a first time.!!:cheers:

Yaa I agree, impossible is nothing. But IR alone cannot build because already it is suffering from shortage of funds. A special purpose vehicle is proposed or i guess already set up. Japan is whiling to participate by providing soft loans. So money is not at all a problem. But people must also cooperate. Vote bank politics is also a big problem we are facing. Also our pace of work is at snails speed. We need to build expressways at faster rate and also basic infrastructure. Indian's are pessimistic and it's obvious. Except Delhi metro all other major projects missed dozens of deadlines. It was only Delhi metro which completed first phase in 7 years when it was given a deadline of 10 years. Thanks to Mr. Shrredharan for his dedicated work :)

Yeah I know. My uncle worked there too. L&T has standards. I'm sure they will do a good job if they build bullet trains.

No doubt. L&T is a very prestigious company of India. It has set an example that even home grown companies can achieve international standards..

Since the Brits left India, the GOI has done very little to improve the railways. Most of the routes are existing ones for several decades. Even the railway stations are all old and decrepit, with nary a maintenance effort by IR. Given such pathetic conditions you can pretty much experiment with something "new" for the IR. HSR between say Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Pune-Mumbai, Chennai-Bluru, etc would make sense. A fresh effort in new lines, new land acquisition, new tech imported or domestic collaboration is the least that can be done. Try out something new and novel instead of the tiring iterations of ICF manufactured trains. There is ample demand for newer service and if things are run in tight ship manner the public is willing to pay for the services.

The political and babu clan leadership in IR is completely lacking. If this is fixed anything is possible in transforming the moribund IR. One such thing would be a vision to build a train that is uniquely Indian,modern and high speed with the talent pool of the nation and its private sector companies.

Here is quote that I found on this topic in TOI from one reader...

in the US the first modern High Speed Rail started in the 90s using imported French Bullet Trains ( Acela ) and ran between Boston & Washington at speeds of just 80 mph! It took nearly 15 years to build high speed track and now they run at 120 mph ( compared to 180 mph in France ). Rich Taiwan had the Japanese build them a 400 km long Bullet train system ( tracks, trains, power etc. ) at a cost $ 8 billion ( $ 20 million or Rs 120 crores per km ). These now run at 180 mph. Sample train fare for trips I have taken : Japan : Tokyo to Osaka 350 miles Y 12,000 ( Rs 7,000 ), Germany from Cologne to Berlin 400 miles Euro 140 ( Rs 11,200 )

Technology for HSR is mainly in Japan (Shin kan sen), France (TGV), Germany (ICE). Companies like Siemens, Bombardier, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Kawasaki Heavy Industries and Toshiba have the tech. Currently Japan is in talks with Brazil (B of BRIC) for HSR introduction for Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo and Campinas route.

Yaa I agree, impossible is nothing. But IR alone cannot build because already it is suffering from shortage of funds. A special purpose vehicle is proposed or i guess already set up. Japan is whiling to participate by providing soft loans. So money is not at all a problem. But people must also cooperate. Vote bank politics is also a big problem we are facing. Also our pace of work is at snails speed. We need to build expressways at faster rate and also basic infrastructure. Indian's are pessimistic and it's obvious. Except Delhi metro all other major projects missed dozens of deadlines. It was only Delhi metro which completed first phase in 7 years when it was given a deadline of 10 years. Thanks to Mr. Shrredharan for his dedicated work :)

More than pessimistic we are skeptical... I was born in a generation where my parents kept telling that nothing will improve here because nothing actually got done in-terms of infra so anything we take it with a pinch of salt... but they are changing for the good!! .. by sustained effort things will improve and we wont be pessimistic .. it ll happen in the future!!

Well I am not too optimistic either....In India we have not reached that level yet where projects are finished within deadlines and initiated very soon after they have been announced. Still we have long way to go...But in states like Gujarat, things are going pretty fast. GIFT a multi billion project was scheduled to start works in 2007..But due to financial crisis work was delayed but now we are seeing GIFT rising....Many said it will never even rise a bit. But there we have a very strong leader MODI....we need like him every where

And lets not start debate on Modi now :P....I only support him for his development works and his aggressiveness as a leader...Other allegations I donno and I dont discuss much :D

Why is this thread created?>????


If all forumers talk that HSR cant be made, IR is a crap, IR cant do anything, then WHY is this thread created?????

^^ :lol: even i got fed up of all this thing, i am surprised by there thinking, when not much progress was going then everybody was saying, this will not happen, this is political stunt, when they approved that and made dpr, then they said, it will be ready in 2050 if even that possible, but when even prime minister said he will support this fully and e.shridharan also said india will het it by 2021, then people don't want to believe and saying indian railways should be upgrade, and when now they are taking bullet trains to india, no matter will not run on dedicated tracks, but definately be the first step for that, then people are saying we should purchase emu, india cannot make this, this will cost us,tata-mahindra is not gud,rocket science is easy than this,drdo-isro are morons.etc. etc. etc.
firstly decides u wants that or not, this is a mega project, u can't pickup tracks and put up anywhere,whenevr u want and start running bullet trains on that, that's not big thing, and no doubt india will get in near future, india is buliding most no. of metro projects at the moment, delhi metro is the largest rapid transit u/c at the moment, if we can manage that, than can also do this, it's just this is the first time that people are talking like that, once one line being built, it will carry on fluently after that.don't forget there is always a first time.!!:cheers:

We are all skeptical until we see the work starting. Let them start land acquisition, then we will share the optimism. From Lalloo Yadav's time (even before that actually) we have been hearing crapshit about bullet trains. Over the last 7 years, I remember at least 3 times, that the ToI headline in Bangalore was about "Bangalore-Mysore bullet train". Just look back at this thread, how many "studies" and "feasibility" reports have been carried out, over and over and over again! 59 pages, and just a whole load of discussions, no action on the ground yet. Just announcements, announcements and more announcements.

Sorry, there is a large section of us who do not trust all this crap that sarkari organizations like IR come up with. This latest shit about running bullet trains on "normal" tracks is such a load of horsepoop. Tell me this - we keep hearing that signals and wait times are a big reason for the slowness of our trains, since lot of trains of varying speeds need to share the same track infrastructure. Now, they are talking about sharing the same track infra with 200 km/hr bullet trains? And are we expected to buy this fairy tale? :bash:

If a private organization or private consortium does the implementation with government support/stake, it has a far higher chance of seeing the light of day, than if IR does this.

HT (http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Bullet-trains-to-slow-down-to-110-kmph-for-India-tracks/Article1-941289.aspx)

Bullet trains to slow down to 110 kmph for India tracks


The train sets (bullet trains), which India had proposed to acquire, will be "intensively modified" so that they can run at a much slower speed on the country's existing Broad Gauge (BG) tracks.

These customised train sets in turn are likely to raise the acquisition costs by several folds, an official from a visiting Japanese team informed at the first meeting of the India-Japan working sub-group on High Speed Rail on Thursday.

It had earlier been estimated that the six train sets would come at a cost of Rs. 25,000 crore.

Bullet trains - designed to run at a speed of 325 km per hour (kmph) - are run on the standard gauge; but the railways wants to run these at a speed of 110 kmph on BG routes.

The railways will also need to carry out massive upgrades in the track structure and signaling systems - which will also come at a huge cost, officials said.

The railways plan to build a "Golden Rail Corridor" for running these slow-moving bullet trains on four other routes apart from the Delhi-Mumbai sector. Routes identified for this corridor includes the Mumbai-Kolkata and the Chennai-Bangalore sectors, besides the Delhi-Jaipur and the Ahmedabad-Mumbai routes.

"Most advanced countries have switched over its locomotive hauled conventional inter-city trains to Electric Multiple Units (EMUs) train sets for operating speeds ranging from 130-160 kmph," an official said.

But some sections feel that given the astronomical costs involved, the acquisition is unjustified - particularly since the railways can work on an alternative model at a fraction of the costs.

"The LHB-design coaches (certified for 160 kmph speed) can be upgraded to 180-200 kmph to create a train set with two locos at each end... This train set may not resemble an Inter City Express or a Shinkansen, but will more than serve the purpose," officials said.

ET (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/railways/high-speed-train-sets-for-rajdhani-and-shatabdi-expresses/articleshow/16725402.cms)
High-speed train sets for Rajdhani and Shatabdi Expresses

NEW DELHI: Aiming at reducing travel time in train journey, Railways is acquiring Electrical Multiple Units (EMU) train sets for premier services like Rajdhani and Shatabdi Expresses for operating at a higher speed of 130-150 km per hour.

The decision to adopt train sets technology was announced in the 2012-13 Railway Budget.

"We are working on introducing modern EMU train sets designed for operations at maximum speed of 130-150 kmph for running premium Rajdhani and Shatabdi trains, without any additional expenditure on existing track and signalling infrastructure," said a senior Railway Ministry official.

According to the official, existing rail tracks on Rajdhani routes are fit for running trains up to a speed of 150 km per hour, but average speeds of Rajdhani/Shatabdi trains is less than 90 km per hour due to large number of speed restrictions and poor acceleration of existing loco hauled trains.

The Railways are expecting that the proposed modern distributed powered EMU train sets will be free from these bottlenecks, provide faster and safer movement and will substantially reduce running time.

The proposed EMU train sets consist of 21 cars (coaches) and are estimated to cost about Rs 200 crore per train.

The Railways claim modern train sets are eco friendly, noiseless, consume 30 per cent less energy and do not pollute the environment as in case of conventional loco hauled trains.

But will this be economically viable..If fares are marginally increased then it will be fine to travel in such luxury...But quite big fares with such a less speed will it work??

Since the Brits left India, the GOI has done very little to improve the railways. Most of the routes are existing ones for several decades. Even the railway stations are all old and decrepit, with nary a maintenance effort by IR. Given such pathetic conditions you can pretty much experiment with something "new" for the IR. HSR between say Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Pune-Mumbai, Chennai-Bluru, etc would make sense. A fresh effort in new lines, new land acquisition, new tech imported or domestic collaboration is the least that can be done. Try out something new and novel instead of the tiring iterations of ICF manufactured trains. There is ample demand for newer service and if things are run in tight ship manner the public is willing to pay for the services.

The political and babu clan leadership in IR is completely lacking. If this is fixed anything is possible in transforming the moribund IR. One such thing would be a vision to build a train that is uniquely Indian,modern and high speed with the talent pool of the nation and its private sector companies.

Here is quote that I found on this topic in TOI from one reader...



Technology for HSR is mainly in Japan (Shin kan sen), France (TGV), Germany (ICE). Companies like Siemens, Bombardier, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Kawasaki Heavy Industries and Toshiba have the tech. Currently Japan is in talks with Brazil (B of BRIC) for HSR introduction for Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo and Campinas route.

Just to add to the list from my own experience:

KTX (South Korea)
Seoul-Busan (325 KM, 2.5 hrs) Highest speed 305/hr: 50,300 KRW (=2350 Rupees)

CRH (China)
Shanghai-Suzhou (84 KM, 30 mins) Highest speed 300/hr: 45 RMB (=375 Rupees)

But will this be economically viable..If fares are marginally increased then it will be fine to travel in such luxury...But quite big fares with such a less speed will it work??

It depends on what kind of seating is made available. They could use 3x3 seating for single decker cars accomodating 80-100 passengers. Or they could use double decker cars with 2x3 seating accomodating around 120-140 passengers. If they plan sleeper cars then the 3-tier arrangement should be persisted with. AC 3tier and AC chair car are the only classes in IR which produce a return on investment. The fares need not change much if only the trains are going to be changed.

It depends on what kind of seating is made available. They could use 3x3 seating for single decker cars accomodating 80-100 passengers. Or they could use double decker cars with 2x3 seating accomodating around 120-140 passengers. If they plan sleeper cars then the 3-tier arrangement should be persisted with. AC 3tier and AC chair car are the only classes in IR which produce a return on investment. The fares need not change much if only the trains are going to be changed.

I guess all trains should have sleeper class..because since speed is only fractionally increased time taken to travel will also be slightly reduced..so long routes cannot be traveled by sitting....

Rediff (http://www.rediff.com/business/report/high-speed-train-railways-to-sign-mou-with-spain/20121025.htm)
High-speed train: Railways to sign MoU with Spain

Railways have decided to sign an agreement with Spain for exploring the possibilities of introducing bullet train service and improvement of safety features in train operation in the country.

The memorandum of understanding, to be signed with Spanish Railways, will be in operation for three years.

Besides introducing high-speed rail service, Railways will avail Spanish expertise for increasing the speed of passenger trains on existing track, as per the agreed agenda of the agreement.

Railways are in the process of setting up a high-speed rail authority to run trains at 300 km/hour speed on seven selected routes.

"We have plans to develop high-speed train service in the country and currently we are in the process of carrying out pre-feasibility study on seven identified corridors," a senior Railway Ministry official said.

Spanish consultant Eneco has been hired to carry out studies in the Howrah-Haldia (135 km) route and it has submitted the initial report. Spain has a modern railway network linking all major towns and cities.

The identified routes for proposed bullet train service are Pune-Mumbai-Ahemedabad (650 km), Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar (450km), Delhi-Lucknow-Patna (991 km), Hyderabad-Chennai (644km), Chennai-Bengaluru-Thiruvanthapuram (850 km) and Delhi-Jaipur-Jodhpur (591 km).

Railways have roped in French firm Systra for Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad (650 km) route while UK-based consultant Mott McDonald has been engaged to conduct the pre-feasibility study of the Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna (991 km) route.

According to an estimate, it will cost about Rs 100 crore (Rs 1 billion) to construct one km high-speed corridor.

As per the preliminary report, ridership revenues would be able to cover the operating cost of the project.

State governments and financial institutions are expected to be stakeholders of the high-speed rail corridor projects which will be executed in PPP mode.

I guess all trains should have sleeper class..because since speed is only fractionally increased time taken to travel will also be slightly reduced..so long routes cannot be traveled by sitting....

Perhaps this Bombardier Regina-based sleeper EMU fast train would met the needs of your railways.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/CRH1E_shanghai_Hongqiao_Railway_station2.JPG/640px-CRH1E_shanghai_Hongqiao_Railway_station2.JPG

http://i.imgur.com/R3anS.jpg

But I still think this wont be a good move...Atleast if tracks are upgraded to 200 kn speed or other wise semi high speed corridors it will be a good move...just running these on our tracks would not be feasible

Longest route is 991 km which can be covered in little over 3 hours (without stopping) and probably 4 hours with stops. One won't need a sleeper for such a short duration.

Longest route is 991 km which can be covered in little over 3 hours (without stopping) and probably 4 hours with stops. One won't need a sleeper for such a short duration.

At present trains won't operate at 300 kmph.They will operate slightly quicker than present speed may be 150 kmph.

Rediff (http://www.rediff.com/business/report/high-speed-train-railways-to-sign-mou-with-spain/20121025.htm)
High-speed train: Railways to sign MoU with Spain

Railways have decided to sign an agreement with Spain for exploring the possibilities of introducing bullet train service and improvement of safety features in train operation in the country.

The memorandum of understanding, to be signed with Spanish Railways, will be in operation for three years.

Besides introducing high-speed rail service, Railways will avail Spanish expertise for increasing the speed of passenger trains on existing track, as per the agreed agenda of the agreement.

Railways are in the process of setting up a high-speed rail authority to run trains at 300 km/hour speed on seven selected routes.

"We have plans to develop high-speed train service in the country and currently we are in the process of carrying out pre-feasibility study on seven identified corridors," a senior Railway Ministry official said.

Spanish consultant Eneco has been hired to carry out studies in the Howrah-Haldia (135 km) route and it has submitted the initial report. Spain has a modern railway network linking all major towns and cities.

The identified routes for proposed bullet train service are Pune-Mumbai-Ahemedabad (650 km), Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar (450km), Delhi-Lucknow-Patna (991 km), Hyderabad-Chennai (644km), Chennai-Bengaluru-Thiruvanthapuram (850 km) and Delhi-Jaipur-Jodhpur (591 km).

Railways have roped in French firm Systra for Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad (650 km) route while UK-based consultant Mott McDonald has been engaged to conduct the pre-feasibility study of the Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna (991 km) route.

According to an estimate, it will cost about Rs 100 crore (Rs 1 billion) to construct one km high-speed corridor.

As per the preliminary report, ridership revenues would be able to cover the operating cost of the project.

State governments and financial institutions are expected to be stakeholders of the high-speed rail corridor projects which will be executed in PPP mode.

still pre feasibility report lol

At present trains won't operate at 300 kmph.They will operate slightly quicker than present speed may be 150 kmph.

Isn't that a temporary plane, if it happens at all? I still don't believe that they will be mad enough to purchase expensive trains only to run them at a speed of other dabba trains. That would be similar to DTC buying Boeing 797s and running them on NH-8 from Delhi to Jaipur!

^^ ?? Wasnt a DPR being prepared by Japanese consultants for these very alighnments?

^^ ?? Wasnt a DPR being prepared by Japanese consultants for these very alighnments?

There are several companies working on several routes... spain,uk,japan have all been mentioned in previous reports

At present trains won't operate at 300 kmph.They will operate slightly quicker than present speed may be 150 kmph.

At the very least, the infrastructure should be upgraded to at least 200 km/h, with possible average speed throughout whole journey should be 160 km/h, by then New Delhi-Mumbai will be 8 hours 39 minutes instead of 15 hours 50 minutes.

200 km/h is nothing new, and the upgrades done to achieve such speed in regular basis can be done within your means.

Secure fencing, power supply upgrade to support more trains running at the same time, then rebuild certain parts of the track to have gentler curves, remove all level crossings plus constant maintenance of the track to ensure optimal operational condition plus possible deployment of new signalling system, such as European Train Control System (ETCS) to increase traffic efficiency and so, possible line speed increase even during busy track traffic.

^^ ?? Wasnt a DPR being prepared by Japanese consultants for these very alighnments?

Pre-feasibility reports were being prepared by various consultants for these alignments. It has not reached the DPR stage yet.

At present trains won't operate at 300 kmph.They will operate slightly quicker than present speed may be 150 kmph.

What u are mentioning is those of upgraded tracks..conventional tracks are planned to be built as elevated ones...no one will be foolish enough to invest crores on concrete and elevated structures and run trains at just 150 kmph..if conventional tracks are built trains will be run at 300 kmph speed..

What u are mentioning is those of upgraded tracks..conventional tracks are planned to be built as elevated ones...no one will be foolish enough to invest crores on concrete and elevated structures and run trains at just 150 kmph..if conventional tracks are built trains will be run at 300 kmph speed..

Yes the government's present plan is to upgrade the tracks and import trains and run them at 160-200 kmph

Richard Branson willing to set up high-speed trains in India
26 Oct, 2012, 10.43PM IST, AFP



NEW DELHI: British transport mogul Richard Branson said Friday he would love to help set up high-speed trains in India at a time when the nation's creaking railway system desperately needs new investment.

State-run Indian Railways, the world's biggest employer, is studying the feasibility of attracting private investment for high-speed trains for six routes and has been studying various options of attracting funding.

In an interview with a news channel, Branson said he has the experience to upgrade the crumbling network as his Virgin Rail Group has operated a service along the west coast of Britain for more than a decade.

"We would love to help," said Branson.

"In Britain we took over a dilapidated part of Britain's network about 15 years ago and we transformed it.

"If you wanted high-speed trains in India, just give me a ring and we will be happy to send a team to have a look."

India's crumbling railway system, the world's second largest under a single management, is desperately in need of upgrading to ensure the country's infrastructure keeps pace with its economic growth.

Branson, who also runs his own airline, was furious when Virgin lost its franchise to operate the West Coast Main Line in Britain in August.

However the government has since put its decision to hand the licence to a rival operator on hold after irregularities in the licence tender process.

Rediff (http://www.rediff.com/business/report/high-speed-train-railways-to-sign-mou-with-spain/20121025.htm)
High-speed train: Railways to sign MoU with Spain

Railways have decided to sign an agreement with Spain for exploring the possibilities of introducing bullet train service and improvement of safety features in train operation in the country.

The memorandum of understanding, to be signed with Spanish Railways, will be in operation for three years.

Besides introducing high-speed rail service, Railways will avail Spanish expertise for increasing the speed of passenger trains on existing track, as per the agreed agenda of the agreement.

Railways are in the process of setting up a high-speed rail authority to run trains at 300 km/hour speed on seven selected routes.

"We have plans to develop high-speed train service in the country and currently we are in the process of carrying out pre-feasibility study on seven identified corridors," a senior Railway Ministry official said.

Spanish consultant Eneco has been hired to carry out studies in the Howrah-Haldia (135 km) route and it has submitted the initial report. Spain has a modern railway network linking all major towns and cities.

The identified routes for proposed bullet train service are Pune-Mumbai-Ahemedabad (650 km), Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar (450km), Delhi-Lucknow-Patna (991 km), Hyderabad-Chennai (644km), Chennai-Bengaluru-Thiruvanthapuram (850 km) and Delhi-Jaipur-Jodhpur (591 km).

Railways have roped in French firm Systra for Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad (650 km) route while UK-based consultant Mott McDonald has been engaged to conduct the pre-feasibility study of the Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna (991 km) route.

According to an estimate, it will cost about Rs 100 crore (Rs 1 billion) to construct one km high-speed corridor.

As per the preliminary report, ridership revenues would be able to cover the operating cost of the project.

State governments and financial institutions are expected to be stakeholders of the high-speed rail corridor projects which will be executed in PPP mode.

Which is this 'Spanish consultant Eneco'? I can't find its website or any other reference to this company on the net...

Pre-feasibility reports were being prepared by various consultants for these alignments. It has not reached the DPR stage yet.

Yes...I am also hearing pre feasibility study from centuries. Ahd-Mum line I guess all study works over. Now contract and financial studies are pending. Other line regarding del-varanasi-patna mott mcdonald carried the study..Now the status is not known...

I appreciate a high speed rail corridor between Metropolitan cities in India like Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, Bangalore and Calcutta.

given india's short/long term plans and current condition, when can we expect to see some trains crossing 570 kmph mark? I understand that not only the cost construction is high but also that the demand for these trains would be much less due to very high priced tickets; however, I would like to know if at least their is some sort of planning to introduce these trains sometime in the future.

Why 570 in particular?

^^ Land speed record for rail vehicles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record_for_rail_vehicles)

^^ I know about the records of wheel based rail vehicle and wheel-less rail vehicle (JR Maglev) but both are higher than 570!

^^ I know about the records of wheel based rail vehicle and wheel-less rail vehicle (JR Maglev) but both are higher than 570!

Just didn't remember the exact number so decided to go with 570 kmph...maybe its much higher now.

Just didn't remember the exact number so decided to go with 570 kmph...maybe its much higher now.

Not much higher. It is 575 and 581 for them respectively.

Just didn't remember the exact number so decided to go with 570 kmph...maybe its much higher now.

Friends, reaching 300 kmph or even 500 kmph is not a real challenge. With the traffic known, about 7k trains running all the times, maintaining an average of 200 or 300 kmph is the real challenge.

:nuts:

-Abhijit

Friends, reaching 300 kmph or even 500 kmph is not a real challenge. With the traffic known, about 7k trains running all the times, maintaining an average of 200 or 300 kmph is the real challenge.

:nuts:

-Abhijit

I agree with you on that; but the question is when...when will that happen?

What the hell happened to the pre-feasibility report of Delhi-Patna high speed corridor by Mott MacDonald? It was the first report to be submitted and was to be submitted by August end, and still no news about it. WTF is going on with these reports? Taking on like forever.

^^ They all are working in IST (Indian Stretchable Time) mode :)

My 2 cents to the ongoing discussion:

1. for(int i=0; i<=number_of_years_for_feasibility_studies; i++)
2. {
3. if(is_feasibility_study_conclusive)
4. {
5. if(whether_technology_became_old ||
number_of_years_of_study > 2)
6. {
7. restart_feasibility_study_with_other_options;
8. }
9. else
10. {
11. switch_to_different_technology;
12. }
13. }
14. else
15. {
16. restart_feasibility_study_with_more_funding;
17. }
18. }
19. if(railway_minister_changed)
20. {
21. return to step 1;
22. }

Somewhere in between it becomes an infinite loop.

Hyundai allowed to bid for Brazil rail project: report

SAO PAULO: Brazil has cleared the way for South Korean industrial giant Hyundai to put in a construction bid for a bullet train to link Rio with Sao Paulo and Campinas, according to a report Wednesday.

Economic daily Valor said the federal government has agreed to lower a requirement for prospective bidders: instead of requiring a ten year record of operating high-speed trains without accident, bidders would only need five.

Hyundai, which has only eight-and-a-half years of high-speed train experience, had pushed for the change.

"We are going to show flexibility, as we must recognize that the South Korean group developed a technology, operated it and never had any accident," Valor quoted Bernardo Figueiredo, president of the agency running the country's transport system, as saying.

"There is no point in excluding such an important operator," Figueireido said from the southern city of Porto Alegre.

The National Agency of Land Transports (ANTT) would not confirm the report.

The total cost of Brazil's 511-kilometer (318-mile) Rio-Sao Paulo-Campinas high-speed train project is estimated at $16.4 billion.

The proposed high-speed train will race between Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo at 280 kilometers (174 miles) per hour, covering the distance in just 80 minutes, compared to the at least six hours the journey currently takes by car or bus.

So far five major foreign operators -- the local subsidiary of France's GEC Alsthom, Germany's Siemens, Japan's Mitsui and Spain's CAF and Talgo -- have expressed interest in joining the initial bidding process.

Planning for the project began five years ago. Since then, investments have gone towards feasibility studies, environmental impact assessments, technical consultations, legal support and the holding of public hearings.

similar project in Brazil. May be these people can learn something and implement oit fast.

Railway Board plans to buy high-speed trains at Rs.550 crore apiecel (http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indian-railways-high-speed-trains-rs-550-crore-a-piece/1/229159.html)

Cash strapped Indian railways need an investment of around 10 lakh crore to enhance its safety.
The Indian railways needs at least Rs.10 lakh crore to enhance its safety measures and another Rs.1.25 lakh crore to complete 129 key projects.

These financial hiccups, however, have not stalled the flight of ambition of the railway board, which has prepared a proposal to buy highspeed trains, which can travel up to 200 km per hour, at the cost of Rs.550 crore per train.

The "speed-up high quality coach trains" are proposed to run on the Delhi-Mumbai route. The ambitious plan, involving an expenditure of Rs.10,587 crore for 20 speed-up trains, has triggered a debate in the railway department with several members finding the project unfeasible given the current condition of the railways.

The feasibility study, presented in the railway board meeting on November 1, also took into account the additional cost of three to four thousand crore rupees that would be incurred in setting up the infrastructure to run the high-speed trains.

The feasibility proposal (a copy of which is with Mail Today) has evoked sharp criticism from former board members and railway brass, with some sniffing a "scam" and "favouritism" to a particular company.

"It is learnt that companies like Altstom, Bombardier and Siemens are in the race to grab the contract. Japanese giants in the field - Hitachi, Kawasaki and Mitsubishi - are also not far behind. Incidentally, the feasibility study for these trains was sponsored by Japan's ministry of economy, trade and industry (METI),'' a board member said.

Many questioned the proposal's viability at a time when the railways is struggling to complete several pending projects. A senior board member pleading anonymity said: "There are several pending issues which need urgent attention and are affecting the daily operations of the railways. If we can run a highquality train at the cost of Rs.60-70 crore, including the locomotive cost, why are we going for the high-speed trains which are 10 times more expensive? The proposal is impractical given we don't have proper tracks to run even 100 km/hr speed trains."

The total cost earned from passenger fare per train will not even be enough to pay the interest of the loan required to buy these trains. "Had it been an investment it would have been a feasible approach. But that is not the case," the board member said. "Besides the Rs.11,000 crore cost of the train, also consider the expenditure on the tracks.

The cost of one km track for such high-speed train will be equivalent to the cost of 20 km of normal coach tracks in use in the country. I don't approve of the proposal, so do many other members in the board," the board member added.

Former general manager in the railways, R.C. Sethi, said: "You (the railway board) are dreaming a technological leap when you don't have the strength to even walk properly on the ground."

Former railway board member (mechanical) R.C. Acharya questioned the "extravagance" saying: "It seems to me to be an attempt by vested interests to push the railways into a horrendously expensive initiative."

"Rather than taking up such projects, the railways should push pending projects, enhance line capacity and consolidate its bread winner - the freight operations," Acharya added.


Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indian-railways-high-speed-trains-rs-550-crore-a-piece/1/229159.html

Railway Board plans to buy high-speed trains at Rs.550 crore apiecel (http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indian-railways-high-speed-trains-rs-550-crore-a-piece/1/229159.html)

Cash strapped Indian railways need an investment of around 10 lakh crore to enhance its safety.
Well this not at all a good move...First u must build a strong base...Our Indian ministers forget to start from base levels...Inprove safety, Cleanliness and modernize stations first....Then we can go for such EMU's..

Well this not at all a good move...First u must build a strong base...Our Indian ministers forget to start from base levels...Inprove safety, Cleanliness and modernize stations first....Then we can go for such EMU's..

I see people defecating, urinating, spitting, littering, dirtying railway platforms & tracks almost everywhere in the country, local train tracks in Mumbai is perhaps the worst example - & it has actually gotten worse in the last 10 years - no respect or civic sense at all by almost everyone.

Unless a law is passed against this by CG & strictly enforced with spot fines & arrest (depending on severity), nothing is going to clean up the railways, also cities, towns, villages, etc.

Fancy coaches are fine, but the access to them would still be stinking. Why would people prefer trains? Those who can will fly instead, leaving govt & state officials with passes to travel on them.

^^

Contrary to your saying a lot of "rich" people do travel by trains .. but for middle class its the only option with the airfares skyhigh.

The problem is the attitude of the railways too .. railways tracks are full of shit falling from trains so people feel no guilt on shitting by them in poor regions. This can also be related to the general lack of toilets in India and the culture.

^^

Contrary to your saying a lot of "rich" people do travel by trains .. but for middle class its the only option with the airfares skyhigh.

The problem is the attitude of the railways too .. railways tracks are full of shit falling from trains so people feel no guilt on shitting by them in poor regions. This can also be related to the general lack of toilets in India and the culture.

I'm aware of some richer sections traveling by trains, but this doesn't change the point - if they can conveniently travel by air, they would opt out. Yes, railways must change over to collect & dispose or built-in sewage treatment units for train toilets.

The dirty culture must be fought tooth & nail. Even if public toilets are built, we find people urinating just about anywhere - this cannot go on since we have the dubious distinction of having the largest number of people - nearly half the country's population defecating in the open (about ten times more than China, which is second on the list).

Prime Ministers Noda, Singh speak of bringing bullet train technologies to India (http://japandailypress.com/prime-ministers-noda-singh-speak-of-bringing-bullet-train-technologies-to-india-2118747)
http://cdn.japandailypress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/AJ201211210031M-200x133.jpeg

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India and Japanese premier Yoshihiko Noda met on the sidelines of the ASEAN Summit in Cambodia on Tuesday, reaching an agreement to discuss the potential of bringing Japan’s shinkansen (“bullet train”) technologies to the populated South Asian country. Specific conditions have yet to be set, but India has been looking into a high-speed railway project for the future.

Japan’s experience and developments with bullet trains would specifically be applied to a 680 kilometer (422 mile) route that would connect the Indian cities of Pune, Mumbai, and Ahmedabad, running through several highly populated areas. This would be the central focus of India’s plans, which include six different high-speed train routes across a total of 4,100 kilometers (2,548 miles). The expectation of the Indian government is that equipment be manufactured locally, a strategy that would cut costs, attract investments, and provide new job opportunities.

A representative from Japan’s Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport, and Tourism commented that the sideline meeting between the two countries’ leaders may have given the country a leg up over bidders for the project. Japan’s bullet train technologies and rail cars have only been exported to Taiwan, but earlier this year Hitachi landed a deal to bring $7 billion worth of high-speed trains to the U.K. In addition, several Asian countries like Vietnam and Thailand, as well as Brazil in South America, are looking into high-speed train advancements in order to serve their growing economies and populations.

India looks to China to put high-speed trains on track (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/india-looks-to-china-to-put-highspeed-trains-on-track/1036311/2)

Aiming to correct trade imbalances with China, India has identified railways as a major thrust area to engage the world’s second largest economy at the bilateral Strategic Economic Dialogue starting on Monday.

The Railways of the two countries are expected to sign a memorandum of understanding (MoU) which will concentrate on three specific areas — high-speed trains, station development and heavy haulage. This will be the second round of talks after the inaugural session in Beijing this year.

For China, a deal with India’s Railways could not have been better timed. Indian Railways has already approved six high-speed rail corridors for various parts of the country. With the feasibility study for the first one, between Ahmedabad and Mumbai, already in, India has been on the lookout for global technology leaders in high-speed railways for cooperation.

Unlike others like Japan and France, China is a relatively new entrant in the world of bullet trains, starting its operations only in 2007. But within a few years, it has developed the world’s largest bullet train network. India needs the technical know-how on laying dedicated tracks and shopping for rakes.

India is also exploring Chinese technology on heavy haulage in dedicated freight corridors.

With active cooperation in railways, India wants to try out a new model of bilateral trade engagement with China with the aim to make the trade size swell to around $100 bn in the next few years.

While there is heavy Chinese presence in the power sector as well, Chinese cooperation in railways is being thought as “safer” as the sector is completely controlled by the government.

The two neighbours are expected to sign four MOUs in all — on IT, railways, energy efficiency standards and planning. The Planning Commissions of the two sides will also sign an MOU for joint studies.

23 Nov, 2012, 07.24AM IST, Dipak Kumar Dash,TNN
Railways looks to run Delhi-Mumbai trains at 200 kmph (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/railways/railways-looks-to-run-delhi-mumbai-trains-at-200-kmph/articleshow/17331496.cms)
At present, Rajdhanis, the fastest running trains on this corridor, have a maximum speed of 120 kmph.
NEW DELHI: Much before bullet trains become a reality, travel time between Delhi and Mumbai is likely to reduce substantially with railways planning to launch semi-high speed trains with a top speed of 200 kmph. A railway official said a study to identify the need to strengthen the infrastructure for this service was nearing completion and work would start soon. The services could start by 2017.

"A study was on for the past one year to identify bridges that needed strengthening, better signaling and easing sharp curves for such service. The upgrade will take about four years from the launch of work. The existing lines can be used for fast moving trains at 200 kmph as freight trains will shift to the dedicated freight corridor (DFC)," said R Ramanathan, Railway Board additional member (civil engineering). He was speaking on the sidelines of a CII summit on urban transport on Thursday.

At present, Rajdhanis, the fastest running trains on this corridor, have a maximum speed of 120 kmph. DFC managing director R K Gupta said the dedicated lines for freight will decongest the existing tracks. He added that this will increase average speed of freight trains from the present 25 kmph to 75 kmph. He said transit time would come down by half (for example Mumbai-Delhi in 24 hours).

"Though the average speed of freight trains on the existing lines hovers around 25 km as we use the same track for passenger trains and the latter get priority over freight trains," Gupta said. He added that carrying capacity on the dedicated corridors would be much more than what is available now.

The first phase of Rewari-Vododara of Western DFC will be commissioned by December 2016 and the entire line - from Dadri (UP) to JN Port (Mumbai) - will be operational by March 2017.

India looks to China to put high-speed trains on track (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/india-looks-to-china-to-put-highspeed-trains-on-track/1036311/2)

Aiming to correct trade imbalances with China, India has identified railways as a major thrust area to engage the world’s second largest economy at the bilateral Strategic Economic Dialogue starting on Monday.

The Railways of the two countries are expected to sign a memorandum of understanding (MoU) which will concentrate on three specific areas — high-speed trains, station development and heavy haulage. This will be the second round of talks after the inaugural session in Beijing this year.

For China, a deal with India’s Railways could not have been better timed. Indian Railways has already approved six high-speed rail corridors for various parts of the country. With the feasibility study for the first one, between Ahmedabad and Mumbai, already in, India has been on the lookout for global technology leaders in high-speed railways for cooperation.

Unlike others like Japan and France, China is a relatively new entrant in the world of bullet trains, starting its operations only in 2007. But within a few years, it has developed the world’s largest bullet train network. India needs the technical know-how on laying dedicated tracks and shopping for rakes.

India is also exploring Chinese technology on heavy haulage in dedicated freight corridors.

With active cooperation in railways, India wants to try out a new model of bilateral trade engagement with China with the aim to make the trade size swell to around $100 bn in the next few years.

While there is heavy Chinese presence in the power sector as well, Chinese cooperation in railways is being thought as “safer” as the sector is completely controlled by the government.

The two neighbours are expected to sign four MOUs in all — on IT, railways, energy efficiency standards and planning. The Planning Commissions of the two sides will also sign an MOU for joint studies.

It would be better with Japan.. China does have largest hsr network...but many of its trains are stolen technology from Japanese...and many lines are alleged to have poor engineered ..

http://www.livescience.com/25061-japan-floating-maglev-train.html

http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/2012/12/13/358--Railways-plan-seven-bullet-train-corridors-.html
Railways plan seven bullet train corridors

New Delhi, Dec 13 (IANS) India could have as many as seven exclusive corridors for bullet trains, Minister of State for Railways Kotla Surya Prakash Reddy told the Rajya Sabha Thursday.

In a written reply to a question from Goa Rajya Sabha MP Shantaram Naik, Reddy said Spain, China and Austria were assisting Indian railways with technological inputs to get Indian trains into the high speed gear.

The bullet trains are named so for their appearance and speed.

"For introduction of high speed passenger trains in the country, Ministry of Railways has identified seven corridors for carrying out pre-feasibility studies," Reddy said.

The minister further said that pre-feasibility studies had been conducted on three corridors already: Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad (650 km), Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Patna (991 km) and Howrah-Haldia (135 km).

Offering an insight into the funds to be committed for the purpose, the minister said the estimated cost of the first corridor from Pune to Ahmedabad was Rs.55,859 crore.

^^ You got to be kidding me. When did Mott MacDonald submit its pre-feasibility report on Delhi-Patna route? I have been following it very keenly but never heard of any such report.

^^ You got to be kidding me. When did Mott MacDonald submit its pre-feasibility report on Delhi-Patna route? I have been following it very keenly but never heard of any such report.

No matter what you think of politicians, its the official written statement of a minister in the parliament and if he have said it then its 100% true.

And for more details on the per-feasibility report visit pib they have detail in the PDF format.

^^ Link please. I can't find it. Mott MacDonald's website also says nothing.

Source: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/railways/high-speed-train-on-delhi-mumbai-route-on-track/articleshow/17845858.cms

NEW DELHI: Railways today expressed optimism over progress in its plans to run passenger trains on busy Delhi-Mumbai corridor at 200 km per hour and launching for the first time train sets services on shorter routes.

Maintaining that global crisis is coming in the way from achieving higher growth, it said its earnings have, however, gone up by 20 per cent this fiscal.

Chairman Railway Board Vinay Mittal said even though there are several financial hurdles to overcome for materialising the high-speed corridor project, they are working towards achieving the objective of running train at 200 km per hour on Delhi-Mumbai route.

"Japan is involved in the study of the high speed train on Delhi-Mumbai route and things are progressing well," Mittal said here but did not give any time frame for its implementation.

Currently Rajdhani trains are expected to run at a maximum speed of 100 km to 120 km per hour while other express trains are running at an approximate speed of 80 km per hour because of the dense traffic condition.

Asked about the proposed train set project which will reduce travel time, he said that it was being studied but it will be launched in a limited scale in some Shatabdi routes.

However, on the proposed project on bullet train which will travel at 300 km per hour, he said "it is a long way to go as it involves heavy funding."

Even though railways' finances remain a big challenge, he said the bridge gap funding of Rs 3000 cr has been paid back with interest to Finance Ministry.

He said the foggy condition over north India have affected revenue earnings and the poor market condition led several of its rakes to lie idle.

Expressing optimism over the increased fund allocation, he said plan allocation in the 12th Five-Year Plan to railways has been increased to Rs 1.94 lakh crore from the Rs 77,000 crore in the 11th Five-Year Plan.

"Steps are being taken to curb expenditure as there is a need for fund renewal of assets and safety upgradation," he said.

Im sure this question has been asked before, but:

ASSUMING we get everything in place etc, then these supposed high speed trains will have to run on new tracks right? (I know they can upgrade the current tracks, but surely theres too much traffic currently on the major routes where HSR is proposed)...

My question is where is the space to build these new tracks and stations within the cities, like mumbai, Ahmedabad... And where is the space to extend the railway stations to accomodate these new trains?

Im more concerned about where the stations will go, because the tracks should be elivated, but a lot of space is required for elevated train stations and all their facilities. In our already crouded cities, where everything is already elevated (flyovers, metros etc), do we really want huge elevated stations?


Arent most of the stations of Shinkansen elevated aswell?

The trains don't need to run on 'elevated' tracks but they do require a gradual grading and isolation (no crossing of the tracks). Based on these requirements, the closest these trains can pick-up speed would be beyond Borivali in Mumbai. Same would be expected when the tracks pass thru various Gujarat cities.

However, if the route is thru parts of Rajasthan, there would be good opportunity to run at high speeds with relatively easy construction.

HT (http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Soon-semi-high-speed-trains-on-Indian-tracks/Article1-983692.aspx)
Soon, semi-high speed trains on Indian tracks

Semi-high speed trains will dash on Indian tracks at a speed of 200 kilometres per hour this year.

The Railways plan to acquire six train-sets from European or Japanese manufacturers and "we expect that one or two of these will become operational this year," chairman Railway Board (CRB) Vinay Mittal said.

Railways minister Pawan Kumar Bansal is likely to elaborate on the acquisition plan in his budget speech in February.

The train sets have the potential to run at a speed of 300 to 325 kilometres per hour and run on the standard gauge world-over, but the Indian

consignment will be customised, enabling them to run at lesser speed ( 200 km per hour) on the existing Broad Gauge tracks.

“The Rail Vikas Nigam Limited (a railways PSU) is in the process of completing formalities relating to the acquisition plan. These will be acquired through global tenders,” Mittal said.

A Japanese-sponsored study on running the semi high-speeds in India has been completed and the report is likely to be submitted shortly to the Railway Board.

Though the Japanese consortium chose the Delhi-Mumbai line for the study, the Indian Railways is likely to pilot the semi-high speeds to connect cities that are 500 to 600 kilometres apart.

Delhi-Amritsar and Delhi-Lucknow are likely to be the possible routes to run the semi-high speeds, an official said.

Meanwhile, the plans to run bullet trains (300-325 kmph speed) on the identified Mumbai-Ahmedabad route appear to have been put on the back-burner. "It is a hugely capital intensive area and the Railways are not so much cash happy at the moment," a senior official said.

Building high speed corridors on the Mumbai-Ahmedabad route is estimated to cost Rs.65,000 crore.

But the plans to set up a rail tariff regulatory authority are likely to be shortly implemented, officials said.

Proposed as an advisory body, the tariff authority will help de-link railways operations from political considerations, while enabling the public transporter to rationalise freight and passenger tariffs.

The trains don't need to run on 'elevated' tracks but they do require a gradual grading and isolation (no crossing of the tracks). Based on these requirements, the closest these trains can pick-up speed would be beyond Borivali in Mumbai. Same would be expected when the tracks pass thru various Gujarat cities.

However, if the route is thru parts of Rajasthan, there would be good opportunity to run at high speeds with relatively easy construction.

Thats not what i meant... Basically, will the new platforms for these trains be extensions of existing train stations, or would we get to see new stations built, and if so, where, in our crowded cities, would these stations be?

I know this is all hypothetical, only if HSR is even built.

So no bullet trains.....Thats sad

Why does it always have to be implemented from Delhi or Mumbai?? Aren't there any other sections where the traffic is high?? Can't they implement this in south india.

Bangalore - Chennai route is among the busiest in India. Why can't they implement this here??

Its because of Political pressure from the Centre. Chennai-Bangalore will probably see these trains in next 3-4 Years time if its Successful in the Mum-Del sector.

Delhi-Mumbai, Bangalore-Chennai, Calcutta-Delhi,Trivandrum-Bangalore, Trivandrum-Chennai, Delhi-Agra, Delhi-Amritsar, Delhi-Ahmedabad, Mumbai-Goa, Calcutta-Vishakapattanam, Chennai-Hyderabad, Jaipur-Delhi, Trivandrum-Mangalore, Delhi-Lucknow, Are the Best routes for these Trains. And if its One or two stop would make ideal for "DAILY" Commuters.

The ICE Trains Or The PENDOLINO Trains are Capable of Going 200 km and could do Fast Turns on curves due to its Tilt Technology.

high speed rail is a dumb idea in India

it will be an business lobby ( probably Japanese) that pushes it, but it makes little sense. It will divert resources from upgrading the existing system

and how can semi-high speed trains be imported to run on existng track. The limitations are track congestion/ track capacity. Otherwise existing trains could be run at higher average speeds.

Actually, building new railway lines in UP and Bihar is a bad idea because they will never generate enough traffic. For instance, trains at 200km/HR can make Bombay-Ahmedabad in 2.5 hrs. If track is laid thru Rajasthan, Delhi would be another 3 hrs or so. At 6 hrs or so, there won't be too many Bombay-Delhi flights. Not to mention the sheer number of people who can commute.

It seems to me that it is the airline/airport lobby that has a lot to fear from this.

At 6 hrs or so, there won't be too many Bombay-Delhi flights. .

you are assuming 200 kph constant speed. Most likely the travel time will be 8 hrs plus. Anyway to maintain a high speed the train will really need its own dedicated track.

the flying time between Delhi and Bombay will be 1 and a quarter hours. The ticket cost will be comparable - high speed rail is not cheap.

High speed trains are not competitive against planes for distances greater that 600 kms.

Our Grandchildren will see the first Stone been laid for the HSR in India...and their Grandchildren will travel on it. We are talking Years and years...Its the Indian time. :bash:

Our Grandchildren will see the first Stone been laid for the HSR in India...and their Grandchildren will travel on it. We are talking Years and years...Its the Indian time. :bash:

And it would be from the outskirts of one city to the outskirts of another, as by that time density and land price inside the city increase enormously. (It's already not possible to HSR which will stop in the heart of Mumbai)

Our Grandchildren will see the first Stone been laid for the HSR in India...and their Grandchildren will travel on it. We are talking Years and years...Its the Indian time. :bash:


cheer up. the dedicated freight corridor will remove freight trains from the main lines. this will improve speeds

fundamental problem Indian railways faces (among many other problems) is that its a shared system between freight and passenger traffic

In Europe trains carry passengers and very little freight

the dedicated freight corridor was conceptualised as a way of separating Indian Railways into two systems - passenger and freight

for the IR perspective this is the key strategic project

Of course the most important thing is that the new lines remain dedicated to freight only. Knowing Indian politicans we will start to see passenger trains on freight tracks

you are assuming 200 kph constant speed. Most likely the travel time will be 8 hrs plus. Anyway to maintain a high speed the train will really need its own dedicated track.

.

Concur, high-speed rail works only on dedicated lines. There is enough Bombay-Gujarat traffic to make this viable; has been for many years. Extending to Delhi would be costly but just check the cost of the upgraded Bombay-Delhi airports. Not cheap.

JARTS consortium to conduct high speed rail pre-feasibility study [of Hyderabad Chennai route]

Link (http://www.rail.co/2012/01/03/jetro-consortium-to-conduct-high-speed-rail-pre-feasibility-study/)

Japan Railway Technical Service, along with Parsons Brinckerhoff India, has won a contract to conduct the pre-feasibility study on the proposed route for running high speed trains between Hyderabad and Chennai. The new high speed rail service will run between Hyderabad-Vijayawada-Chennai and will cover a distance of 664 km in just two km hours. South Central Railway (SCR) Chief PRO K Sambasiva Rao said: “Besides reducing the travel time between the two cities by almost 12 hours, the bullet train will transform the economy of the region as well as greatly contribute to the economic growth of both Hyderabad and Chennai.” More than 13 bidders were eyeing up the high speed rail project. The study is expected to cost the SCR railways about Rs 3.5 crore and the consortium has been given seven months to submit the report.
In order to push high speed rail projects in the country, the government has set up the National High Speed Rail Authority, which will be solely responsible for setting up bullet train services in the country. According to an estimate, one km of high speed rail project will cost Rs 100 crore to Indian Railways who have made it clear that they are looking to develop the six proposed projects on the public private partnership (PPP) model. Japan is eyeing for high speed rail market and is planning to sell its high speed trains Shinkansen to India, which operate at a speed of up to 300 km per hour and are known for their punctuality, comfort, safety and efficiency. Japan was the first country to build dedicated railway lines for high speed travel.

The six rail corridors that are under study by the Government are:

Pune- Mumbai- Ahmedabad, completed by Systra, Italferr and RITES
Delhi- Chandigarh – Amritsar
Delhi – Agra-Luknow-Varanasi-Patna, Mott MacDonald (UK)
Haldia – Howrah route completed by Ineco along with Prointec and Ayesa
Hyderabad – Dornakal – Vijayawada – Chennai, JARTS with Parsons Brinckerhoff India
Chennai -Bangalore – Coimbatore – Ernakulam.

Indian high-speed plans take shape

Link (http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/high-speed/indian-high-speed-plans-take-shape.html)

INDIA's high-speed plans are firming up. Last year, Indian Railways (IR) took the first tangible steps along the path to high-speed by announcing plans to acquire a batch of six high-speed trains from a Japanese or European supplier - global tenders for the contract are likely to be invited soon.
This was followed in October by the finalisation of a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with Spain's national train operator Renfe and its infrastructure manager Adif for the development of high-speed trains, followed last month by a similar MoU with China. Pre-feasibility studies for one high-speed stretch have been completed and survey work on three other corridors is nearing completion.

In addition to this flurry of activity during the last few months, an Indo-Japan working group has been formed to develop high-speed trains and a similar pact is proposed with France, the High Speed Rail Corporation (HSRC) has been set up to implement schemes, and IR has sought cabinet approval to constitute a High Speed Rail Authority (HSRA) to provide the administrative, legal and procedural framework.

On the face of it, India appears willing to bite the high-speed bullet and is exploring various options. One is true high-speed running at 300-325km/h on standard-gauge track rather than broad gauge, which is the norm in India.

Semi-high-speed

Another possibility is semi-high-speed operating at 160-200km/h. IR has drawn up a draft plan for operating semi-high-speed services along parts of the so-called Golden Rail Corridor linking some of India's main cities. A number of companies, including Japanese and French, have offered to provide the technology. "Pre-feasibility studies for the semi-high-speed will begin in early 2013," a senior IR official confirmed.

A third option would involve increasing the speed of conventional mail and express trains on existing broad-gauge tracks. A Japanese consortium is sponsoring a study into the technical modifications required to signalling systems and structures such as bridges to enable faster trains to run on the Delhi - Mumbai main line.

Constructing high-speed lines could be a way to relieve congestion on the conventional network which is becoming increasingly clogged. Only around 11,000km of new lines were built during the last 65 years, while 3000 new trains have been added to the timetable in the past three decades.

To make matters worse, the number of passengers is expected to increase from 8.9 billion in 2012-13 to 11.7 billion by 2016-17. The annual growth in passenger-km is expected to be around 10.8%, rising from 1195 billion in 2012-13 to 1760.4 billion by 2016-17.

Huge as India's transport sector is, it has been unable to keep pace with rising demand. Based on estimates of aircraft seating capacity in 2009, a study conducted by the German DLR Institute of Vehicle Concepts indicates the potential for 35 high-speed lines in India, ranging from the proposed 289km Chennai - Bangalore line to the 778km Delhi - Ahmedabad route.

Indian roads today carry 90% of the country's passenger traffic and about two-thirds of its freight, but they are responsible for approximately 80% of greenhouse gas emissions. "The time has come to invest in high-speed rail which, being energy-efficient and environmentally-friendly, is the inevitable transport alternative of the future," one official said.

Despite the flurry of activity and the clear need to expand the rail network, this could be as far as it goes for the moment. IR's finances are decidedly shaky, with the operating ratio hovering at a high of around 95% during the past few years. Due to the lack of money, the number of projects put on the pending list has grown, and the current backlog of schemes is estimated at a whopping Rs 1470bn ($US 27.7bn). There is also a huge need to expand the rolling stock and motive power fleets during the next five years, with numbers estimated at 33,066 coaches, 105,659 wagons, and 4010 locomotives.

First project

Building the 650km Pune - Mumbai - Ahmedabad high-speed corridor, which has been identified as the first project, is estimated to cost Rs 700bn. This is three times the size of the annual budget of several Indian states, and for that money, India could meet its entire passenger coach needs for the next five years.

IR operates 19,000 trains, moving 2.65 million tonnes of freight and carrying 23 million passengers each day, so it is not surprising that some people believe it would be more prudent for IR to focus on its bread-and-butter job of providing safe, affordable and efficient travel. "Why go after fancy toys?" one official remarked.

There is also strong resistance to change within the monolithic and monopolistic railway establishment. IR has taken two steps forward and four back regarding plans to open up the sector to private investment, largely on account of what is described as the compulsions of coalition politics. Initiatives aimed at reform and modernisation have largely been stymied. Last year, railways minister Mr Dinesh Trivedi lost his job for daring to recommend in his budget speech a passenger fare increase to help fund investment.

While money might be tight and many favour investment in the conventional network, a political head of steam is building up in favour of high-speed ahead of the 2014 general election. The ruling UPA government seems determined to push ahead with the big-ticket high-speed project now that Mr Pawan Kumar Bansal of the Congress party, the leading party in the UPA coalition, has assumed charge of the railway portfolio.

India's 12th plan projections (2012-13 to 2016-17) encapsulate the goal of executing work on at least two high-speed rail corridors. "Tenders for the Pune - Mumbai - Ahmedabad corridor are being prepared," revealed a senior official dealing with the high-speed project. "The railways minister is likely to make an announcement regarding this in his budget speech in February."

http://www.railjournal.com/images/India-table-1.jpg

Nice.. TFS :cheers:

Google translation of Japanese news

ODA in Japan to apply for high-speed freight railway in southern India


It was found that the Indian government is planning to build a full-fledged high-speed freight railway linking Bangalore and Chennai in southern India will advance major Japanese manufacturers. Also plan to complete by the end of 2019, a new line of about 300 km to transport large amounts of cargo high-speed computer control. The total project cost is expected to about 110 billion rupees (about 180 billion yen), and a view to the application application of official development assistance (ODA) for the Japanese government.

According to the Ministry of Commerce and Industry, such as India, the new freight line, connecting Chennai and southern Tamil Nadu state, such as Nissan and Toshiba have advanced the state of Karnataka, Bangalore is the Toyota production offices. Electrified double track the whole line, the speed is more than 100 kilometers per hour plan. I am also planning to launch electric locomotives and freight cars designed specifically for. Construction started in mid-2016, aims to complete at the end of 19.

Near, expected to formally request the Government of Japan (FS) feasibility study by the Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA) is the Government of India. Summit with Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, Japan and India are among the Indian side hopes to develop into one of the agenda of this new line cargo in adjusting the visit of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, to visit Japan if realized.

The Indian government has adopted to promote infrastructure development and industrial agglomeration area that connects Chennai and Bangalore, which is also the gateway to the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) "plan of Indian Industry Southern Economic Corridor." However, infrastructure development is delayed compared with metropolitan areas in the northern part of New Delhi, from companies operating in the calls for improvement of logistics was strong.

We are advancing a joint development project called lay railroad tracks cargo between Mumbai and New Delhi, prepare the infrastructure, such as power plants and industrial parks in along the two governments India and Japan, "The Delhi-Mumbai Industrial Corridor" already. (Satoshi Iwaki New Delhi =)



http://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXNASGM0303X_Q3A110C1MM0000/

The semi HS plan, where they plan to buy HS trains suited to run at lower speeds is only for the existing broad gauge tracks, right? and Full HS trains will run on new tracks?

^^ That's right. IR has planned to make some modifications of the existing broad gauge tracks to run semi-high speed trains on them. Bullet trains will need a different dedicated track. Tenders are going to be called for semi HS train sets this year.

How can semi-high speed trains be run on existing track. The congestion levels are too high

Also the current tracks in many cases need to be "straightened" out. There are too many little curves and dips. This is becasue the track closely follows the contours of the land. This will involve lot of work

Of the selected Routes Chennai-Bangalore, Pune-Ahmadabad, Bangalore-Trivandrum, Chennai-Trivandrum, are the Profitable Routes [200km/hr range]. Rest Delhi-Patna none of them Buy tickets anyway. :ohno:

:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:
... Rest Delhi-Patna none of them Buy tickets anyway. :ohno:

:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

:lol:

Plan panel: Launch high-speed rail on Delhi-Agra corridor instead of Mumbai-Ahmedabad

The Planning Commission has suggested that the Railways should begin its high-speed rail (HSR) corridor project with the Delhi-Agra section rather than insisting on the Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor.

In a recent note to a steering group, the Commission has asked the Railways to take up the Delhi-Agra section of the 991 km-long Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi corridor, as it would be able to execute the project on a stretch that is barely 200 km as a demonstrative exercise and before developing other corridors.

The Plan panel has said that the section would cost far less than the Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor that is projected to cost Rs 63,000 crore.

Under the HSR plan, the railways intends to run trains at the speed of 160 km to 200 km per hour in its various zones of railways due to different track conditions.

The Railways has identified six corridors for conducting pre-feasibility tests for running bullet trains including Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor.

The other proposed sections are: Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar (450 km), Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad (650 km), Hyderabad-Dornakal-Vijayawada-Chennai (644 km), Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam (649 km) and Howrah-Haldia (135 km).

The government has also constituted a project steering group under chairman, Railway Board, to iron out implementation issues.

The Commission has argued against providing budgetary support for execution of any HSR given the high costs. The Railways would have to invest Rs 8,500 crore a year to meet the projected costs of the Mumbai-Ahmedabad project.

While committing such amounts, the Railways would have to shoulder all the risks without having prior expertise in implementing such a technology-intensive exercise, the Plan panel said.

It has also rejected the proposed design, build, finance, operate and transfer (DBFOT) model saying if the projected is executed through the PPP model, then mobilising a 40 per cent Viability Grant Fund amounting to nearly Rs 24,000 crore would be a uphill task.

The Plan panel also said that HSR corridors are required to be embedded in the overall strategy of the Railways, which is needed to ensure their profitability.


PILOT PROJECT

* The Planning Commission in a note has said that the Railways should start building the high-speed rail corridor on the Delhi-Agra section rather than insisting on the Mumbai-Ahmedabad route

* The Plan panel says that implementing it on 200 km stretch would be a good pilot project before developing other corridors

* This would cost far less than the Mumbai-Ahmedabad route projected to cost Rs 63,000 crore

Source (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/plan-panel-launch-highspeed-rail-on-delhiagra-corridor/1057671/0)

Plan panel: Launch high-speed rail on Delhi-Agra corridor instead of Mumbai-Ahmedabad

Thank god someone in the PC woke up. :cheers: It makes sense not to have HSRL at all for now (our per capita income is too low at 1900 dollars. Wait for it to reach $ 3000-which should happen in six or seven years. :) For a test HSRL it makes more sense to select Delhi-Agra/Jaipur or may personal preference Alwar. That way you start off with a small 120 km stretch and observe how it goes there. That acts as the guinea pig for the overall HSRL. China did this with Beijing Tianjin railway line. :cheers: This will be cheaper and more realistic. :banana: Delhi-Agra seems needless since YE is already there. Jaipur or Alwar or even Rohtak or Chandigarh may be a better option.