The Indian Ministry of Railways' white-paper Vision 2020 submitted to Indian Parliament by Railway Minister Mamata Banerjee on December 18 2009 envisages the implementation of regional high-speed rail projects to provide services at 250-350 km/h, and planning for corridors connecting commercial, tourist and pilgrimage hubs. Six corridors have already been identified for technical studies on setting up of high-speed rail corridors:

1. Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar.
2. Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad.
3. Hyderabad-Dornakal-Vijayawada-Chennai
4. Howrah-Haldia
5. Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam
6. Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna.

These high-speed rail corridors will be built as elevated corridors in keeping with the pattern of habitation and the constraint of land.

Estimated cost

In a feasibility study published in 1987, RDSO and JICA estimated the construction cost to be Rs 49 million per km, for a line dedicated to 250-300 km/h trains. In 2010, that 1987-estimated cost, inflated at 10% a year, would be Rs 439 million per km (US$ 9.5 million/km). RITES is currently performing a feasibility study.

According to news media, the costs for constructing such rail lines in India are estimated to be Rs 700-1000 million per km (US$ 15-22 million/km). Therefore the Mumbai-Ahmedabad route of 500 km, will cost Rs 370 billion (US$ 8.04 billion) to build and to make a profit, passengers will have to be charged Rs 5 per km (US$ 0.11/km). Delhi to Amritsar one-way, a distance of 450 km, will cost about Rs 2000 (US$ 43.48).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/India_HSR_potential_route.gif

Source (http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5058571)

UK firm to study pre-feasibility of Delhi-Patna bullet trains

New Delhi, Mar 21 (PTI) Aiming at connecting Patna with high speed train, the railways will undertake a pre- feasibility study of Delhi-Patna rail route, which would be conducted by a British firm.
"UK firm Mott Macdonald has been given the responsibility of conducting the pre-feasibility study of the 993-km-long Delhi-Patna route," a senior Railway Ministry official said.
It would cost the Railways Rs 8.8 crore for preparing the report, which would focus on technicalities, financial and operational viability of the project on Delhi-Agra-Lucknow- Varanasi-Patna route, he said.
The firm has to submit the report within seven months.
"The report would suggest the cost, ridership, alignment, commercial exploitation of land along the route and possible business plan of the Delhi-Patna high speed rail corridor," the official said.
While it takes about more than 12 hours to travel to Patna by Rajdhani, the high speed train is expected to complete the journey in less than five hours.
The Railways so far has identified six routes as possible high speed corridors for running trains at the speed of 250 to 350 km per hour .
While the study for Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad route is complete, the next routes to be taken up for similar study are Howrah-Haldia and Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar sectors.
Later on study for the remaining routes -- Hyderabad- Dornakal-Vijaywada-Chennai and Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore- Ernakulum would be taken up for the proposed high speed train corridor.
In order to expedite the work, the Railways is setting up an independent authority -- National High Speed Rail Authority -- to plan and execute the bullet train project.
Currently it cost about Rs six crore for construction of one km rail route, while it is estimated to cost Rs 70 crore for construction of one km high speed rail corridor.
Since the high speed corridor is a costly proposition, it is being planned to implement it on PPP model with the participation of state governments, the official said.

this is , if ever, 30 years off.
the study is just a job creation scheme..

High speed rail in India would be quite beneficial given the vast area and distances between the major cities. Therefore it makes sense to invest in this technology especially since there is a demand in our country. They should start with Delhi-Mumbai route and work their way across the country. I do think though that railways will have to be privatized in order the achieve such a feat, similar to the liberalization of the aviation sector. I don't think we have the resources or the technology to build our own trains. We would probably have to import them from China/Japan/Korea.

I doubt though that there is the political will or incentive to seriously plan and implement something of this magnitude. There is too much money to be made in the current system.

High school rail . ?? :)

?? :)

LOL. Corrected. Thanks for the heads up.

B2C, do you think this news I posted in the Jaipur Projects Thread has got to do anything with this? Could you please check: This (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=73337399&postcount=309)

Major investment is needed in upgrading & modernising stations, rolling stock, services, locomotives, safety & infrastructure before bullet style trains are introduced.

Just like how the Airports in the country have been upgraded is the samething the Railways need.

but dont u guys think that this high speed rail wont attract the masses bcuz one ticket would be atleast 2000 rupees

^ 1. In a country like India that is vast and large there will be demand for high speed rail. I think right now you pay a similar amount for express trains like Shatabdi and Rajdhani (correct me if I am mistaken). Therefore I don't think one needs to worry about demand. The main point is that this would be a huge investment for the economy and GDP. It will create jobs and is a future oriented outlook.

if ever implemented the fares wont be around 2000 bucks. it would have a similar fare structure as that of the flights. I read this here on SSC itself in some news item

The Indian Ministry of Railways' white-paper Vision 2020 submitted to Indian Parliament by Railway Minister Mamata Banerjee on December 18 2009 envisages the implementation of regional high-speed rail projects to provide services at 250-350 km/h, and planning for corridors connecting commercial, tourist and pilgrimage hubs. Six corridors have already been identified for technical studies on setting up of high-speed rail corridors:

1. Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar.
2. Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad.
3. Hyderabad-Dornakal-Vijayawada-Chennai
4. Howrah-Haldia
5. Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam
6. Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna.

These high-speed rail corridors will be built as elevated corridors in keeping with the pattern of habitation and the constraint of land.

Estimated cost

In a feasibility study published in 1987, RDSO and JICA estimated the construction cost to be Rs 49 million per km, for a line dedicated to 250-300 km/h trains. In 2010, that 1987-estimated cost, inflated at 10% a year, would be Rs 439 million per km (US$ 9.5 million/km). RITES is currently performing a feasibility study.

According to news media, the costs for constructing such rail lines in India are estimated to be Rs 700-1000 million per km (US$ 15-22 million/km). Therefore the Mumbai-Ahmedabad route of 500 km, will cost Rs 370 billion (US$ 8.04 billion) to build and to make a profit, passengers will have to be charged Rs 5 per km (US$ 0.11/km). Delhi to Amritsar one-way, a distance of 450 km, will cost about Rs 2000 (US$ 43.48).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/India_HSR_potential_route.gif

Whoever drew the map couldn't tell his Jodhpur from his Udaipur. :ohno:

And also Jabalpur is exchanged with Nagpur :ohno:

Source : rediff 21/03/2011
Trains @ 350 kmph! 6 high-speed routes identified
Aiming at connecting Patna with high speed train, the Railways will undertake a pre-feasibility study of Delhi-Patna rail route, which would be conducted by a British firm.
"Mott Macdonald, the United Kingdom firm, has been given the responsibility of conducting the pre-feasibility study of the 993-km-long Delhi-Patna route," a senior railway ministry official said.
It would cost the Railways Rs 8.8 crore (Rs 88 million) for preparing the report, which would focus on technicalities, financial and operational viability of the project on Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna route, he said.
The firm has to submit the report within seven months.
"The report would suggest the cost, ridership, alignment, commercial exploitation of land along the route and possible business plan of the Delhi-Patna high-speed rail corridor," the official said.
While it takes about more than 12 hours to travel to Patna by Rajdhani, the high speed train is expected to complete the journey in less than five hours.
The Railways so far has identified six routes as possible high-speed corridors for running trains at the speed of 250 to 350 km per hour.
While the study for Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad route is complete, the next routes to be taken up for similar study are Howrah-Haldia and Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar sectors.
Later on study for the remaining routes -- Hyderabad-Dornakal-Vijaywada-Chennai and Chennai-Bengaluru-Coimbatore-Ernakulum would be taken up for the proposed high speed train corridor.
In order to expedite the work, the Railways is setting up an independent authority -- National High Speed Rail Authority -- to plan and execute the bullet train project.
Currently it cost about Rs 6 crore (Rs 60 million) for construction of one km rail route, while it is estimated to cost Rs 70 crore (Rs 700 million) for construction of one km high speed rail corridor.
Since the high speed corridor is a costly proposition, it is being planned to implement it on PPP model with the participation of state governments, the official said.

Cross Posting

If it were Haldia to Howrah, we would have seen the first highspeed rail in progress by now.

India can opt to improve or upgrade the existing lines in order to run 200 km/h trains.

In China, the Guangshen (Guangzhou-Shenzhen line) was upgraded for 160 km/h operation in 1990's and 200 km/h few years later.

B2C, do you think this news I posted in the Jaipur Projects Thread has got to do anything with this? Could you please check: This (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=73337399&postcount=309)

Yes this is related to this .

A news few days old

City may get high speed train

TNN (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-03-12/lucknow/28683188_1_pune-mumbai-ahmedabad-delhi-chandigarh-amritsar-delhi-agra-lucknow-varanasi-patna),
LUCKNOW: Good news is in store for commuters, as travel time between Lucknow and Varanasi may get reduced to 1.2 hours from the existing 7 hours. If sources are to be believed, high speed trains between Lucknow and Varanasi would be moving at a minimum speed of 250 kilometre per hour in future.

The route; Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna has been identified as one of the six routes for pre-feasibility study for constructing high speed rail corridor.

The fastest train in the country at present is Bhopal Shatabdi at 160 kmph. The high speed trains running at a minimum speed of 250 kmph will redefine train travel. "It will be a different set-up altogether with new tracks, coaches and operational technology," said sources in the railway board.

Railways has identified six corridors for conducting pre-feasibility study for running high-speed trains. They are Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad (650 kms), Hyderabad-Darnakal-Vijaywada-Chennai (644 kms), Howrah-Haldia (135 kms), Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam (649 km), Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar (450 kms) and Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna (991 kms).

These will be elevated corridors and the trains running on them will be different from the regular rakes. "These tracks will be different with no obstructions like unmanned level crossings," said sources. The tracks will be barricaded on both sides to keep any external disturbance out. These trains might run on magnetic track.

Sources also said that Railways plans to set up at least eight high speed corridors. To begin with, six have been identified. The pre-feasibility study for Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad has been done. A similar study has been taken up for Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar route. The private organisations and PSUs are also involved with the study.

"It is a long-term project. As of now, there is no time-frame to it. Once the pre-feasibility study is done, Railways will take stock of investments and other infrastructural requirements. The corridors will be built through Public Private Partnership (PPP)," officials said.

Railways has more than 10,000 trains and over 2 crore passengers move almost daily. The growth in number of passengers is increasing pressure on existing train services. The high speed trains will provide additional services. Besides, they might pose a challenge to air services for being fast. "Although it is still remains to be seen which section of passengers will use them as these might be slightly costlier services," said sources.

The bidding process has started for pre-feasibility study to be taken up on Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna. On this route, some 200 kms might fall under Bihar and remaining under UP and Delhi. Railways will have to co-ordinate with state governments for setting up these corridors. Besides, there might be a technological input from foreign countries, which have faster trains running.

I agree with TWK90.China followed a segmented implementation of high speed rail.They had this program to increase train speeds all over the network and first ventured into 200kmph trains on selected routes.

I think 200kmph can be implemented on just laying normal high speed lines without the use of elevated portions,which greatly increases the cost per km.

Again if India is willing to shell out the money we can have 300kmph trains today itself and in places like mumbai-ahmedabad at Rs 2000 it could be much in demand.
But i believe it would be biting more than one can chew.8 billion dolllars is close to 35,000 crore and to spend that one a single line will cause a lot of opposition.
Who will come up with the money?Certainly not the railway industry because it is cash strapped.

Not that everything is all hunky dory with the Chinese.There high speed lines are running at losses,but the government hardly cares and is pumping in more money.
Also Chinese use the construction of infrastructure like high speed rail as a means of propping up the economy so as to negate the effects of low domestic consumption.

I agree with TWK90.China followed a segmented implementation of high speed rail.They had this program to increase train speeds all over the network and first ventured into 200kmph trains on selected routes.

I think 200kmph can be implemented on just laying normal high speed lines without the use of elevated portions,which greatly increases the cost per km.

Again if India is willing to shell out the money we can have 300kmph trains today itself and in places like mumbai-ahmedabad at Rs 2000 it could be much in demand.
But i believe it would be biting more than one can chew.8 billion dolllars is close to 35,000 crore and to spend that one a single line will cause a lot of opposition.
Who will come up with the money?Certainly not the railway industry because it is cash strapped.

Not that everything is all hunky dory with the Chinese.There high speed lines are running at losses,but the government hardly cares and is pumping in more money.
Also Chinese use the construction of infrastructure like high speed rail as a means of propping up the economy so as to negate the effects of low domestic consumption.

High speed rail in India would be quite beneficial given the vast area and distances between the major cities. Therefore it makes sense to invest in this technology especially since there is a demand in our country. They should start with Delhi-Mumbai route and work their way across the country. I do think though that railways will have to be privatized in order the achieve such a feat, similar to the liberalization of the aviation sector. I don't think we have the resources or the technology to build our own trains. We would probably have to import them from China/Japan/Korea.

I doubt though that there is the political will or incentive to seriously plan and implement something of this magnitude. There is too much money to be made in the current system.

Nah! I don't agree. India is changing before our own eyes. 10-12 years back if someone would have said that there'd be air conditioned metro rails in every major city, I'd have said get out! And now the center has committed 60,000 cr for metros even in smaller towns (>50 lakh population). 5 years back I wouldn't have believed if you told me that there'd be air-conditioned public buses on streets. Now we have them (at least in delhi). I think it's achievable. I read somewhere that kerala govt. was already trying to push for HSR between Kerala and southern cities. I dunno what happened to that.

And I don't think costs will be as high as planes. One, because railways carry huge amounts of traffic and two, because even at 250 km/hr the trains will still be very much on the ground, not flying (i.e. the technology will still be cheaper). Compare, for example the ticket price of metro rail (much less) with the buses for the same destination.

In order to expedite the work, the Railways is setting up an independent authority -- National High Speed Rail Authority -- to plan and execute the bullet train project.

source: http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5058571

If this will be on the lines of Metro Rail Authority (or Corporation - whatever it is), we can be sure of efficient execution.

Yes this is related to this .

Okay well just for the easiness of other fourmers here it is again:

Zip Jap' zoom to Delhi in 90 mins

JAIPUR: If you are tired of travelling to Delhi via road and rail, it is time you can expect the unexpected!

Mamata Banerjee has sanctioned pre-feasibility work for the Jaipur-Delhi corridor to attain the speed of 200km/hr.

The Indian Railways will seek the help of Japanese expertise to convert its dream run into reality.

If this happens, you can zip through the distance in just 1.5 hours. The average speed of trains between Delhi and Jaipur currently is around 110 km/hr.

Speaking on the project, North Western Railway chief public relations officer, Lalit Bohara, said, "It is a remarkable proposal. To start with, a Japanese company will assist with the technicalities."

"The ministry has already roped in a Japanese firm to do the needful," Bohara said.

Asked, how many years it will take for the bullet train to become a reality, he said, "In this financial year, the Japanese firm will plan the blueprint and give its suggestions attaining the speed of 200 km/hour? The company will also suggest on the development of tracks and the signalling mode needed to run a train at such a speed. This work, including the study and logistics support, may take five years to complete."

If this works out properly, the railways can also increase its revenue by ferrying goods in such high speed trains. "The marble industry of Kishangarh may benefit hugely from this," said Kishan Lal Tekwani, a leading marble trader of Kishangarh.

Currently, it takes seven hours for goods trains to reach Delhi from Kishangarh!


Read more: Zip Jap' zoom to Delhi in 90 mins - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/Zip-Jap-zoom-to-Delhi-in-90-mins-/articleshow/7575058.cms#ixzz1F0UJJz1j

Actually i had read somewhere that chinese hsr tickets cost 1/3 of their plane tickets

I personally feel that there are no need for High Speed Trains in India. It will be add to the Black money and pocket money of the politicians. It will be better, if all the existing tracks are modified in such a way so that the existing trains can be operated upto a speed of 200 kms, which is more or less enough.

Let the Segment of High Speed Trains be served by Low cost airlines. They will definitely be cheaper option to travel.

^^they will find some way or the other to gobble up the money.

^^ this happens in most of the countries including China...

what happens?

5 years back I wouldn't have believed if you told me that there'd be air-conditioned public buses on streets. Now we have them (at least in delhi).
Not only Delhi Bengaluru(400+no's),kolkata(300),Kolchi,Thruantapuram etc etc have A.C buses also...Those are quite popular among the peoples ..:cheers:

Nah! I don't agree. India is changing before our own eyes. 10-12 years back if someone would have said that there'd be air conditioned metro rails in every major city, I'd have said get out! And now the center has committed 60,000 cr for metros even in smaller towns (>50 lakh population). 5 years back I wouldn't have believed if you told me that there'd be air-conditioned public buses on streets. Now we have them (at least in delhi). I think it's achievable. I read somewhere that kerala govt. was already trying to push for HSR between Kerala and southern cities. I dunno what happened to that.

1. There isn't an air conditioned metro rail in every major city! Delhi is the only city, beside Kolkota, that has been able to implement metro system in phases. There is a big difference between a plan and it's implementation. Now work is in progress, which is encouraging, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

2. Let's not make comments without understanding the intimate details of the issue shall we? China for e.g., which is 10 years ahead of India at least in infrastructure first setup a bid, in which various international manufacturers like Bombardier and Japans Kawasaki, participated. Bombardier won that order and delivered first trains back in 2006. The Chinese model is based on transfer of technology. It can now produce those trains domestically. In Delhi Metro's case the rolling stock was supplied by a consortium of companies comprising Hyundai Rotem, Mitsubishi Corporation, and MELCO, after which local production could be setup and now we have the technology to build our own cars. Similar approach was used for the phase 2 Bombardier rolling stock. Therefore instead of being hyper-inflated let's be realistic.

1. There isn't an air conditioned metro rail in every major city! Delhi is the only city, beside Kolkota, that has been able to implement metro system in phases. There is a big difference between a plan and it's implementation. Now work is in progress, which is encouraging, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

2. Let's not make comments without understanding the intimate details of the issue shall we? China for e.g., which is 10 years ahead of India at least in infrastructure first setup a bid, in which various international manufacturers like Bombardier and Japans Kawasaki, participated. Bombardier won that order and delivered first trains back in 2006. The Chinese model is based on transfer of technology. It can now produce those trains domestically. In Delhi Metro's case the rolling stock was supplied by a consortium of companies comprising Hyundai Rotem, Mitsubishi Corporation, and MELCO, after which local production could be setup and now we have the technology to build our own cars. Similar approach was used for the phase 2 Bombardier rolling stock. Therefore instead of being hyper-inflated let's be realistic.

On both the points, I somewhat agree with you. But it is also true that India is changing infront of our own eyes... In every big cities the construction is going on for the merto rails... The difference in time between planning an implemetaion is also getting reduced with time due to healthy competetion between the cities...:cheers:

1. There isn't an air conditioned metro rail in every major city! Delhi is the only city, beside Kolkota, that has been able to implement metro system in phases. There is a big difference between a plan and it's implementation. Now work is in progress, which is encouraging, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

2. Let's not make comments without understanding the intimate details of the issue shall we? China for e.g., which is 10 years ahead of India at least in infrastructure first setup a bid, in which various international manufacturers like Bombardier and Japans Kawasaki, participated. Bombardier won that order and delivered first trains back in 2006. The Chinese model is based on transfer of technology. It can now produce those trains domestically. In Delhi Metro's case the rolling stock was supplied by a consortium of companies comprising Hyundai Rotem, Mitsubishi Corporation, and MELCO, after which local production could be setup and now we have the technology to build our own cars. Similar approach was used for the phase 2 Bombardier rolling stock. Therefore instead of being hyper-inflated let's be realistic.

I agree with you about not getting hyperinflated. But I'd rather have the optimism of today than the pessimism of yesteryears. To start with, I never believed that metro would EVER be completed in delhi. I thought it was an eyewash. I'm a changed man today.:D

Like you pointed out, work is already in progress in our major cities (I meant chennai, bangalore, mumbai, hyderabad). From my side of things I don't see why these projects won't be completed unless there's a some major, unforeseen disaster. But there're many a slips...

Like you pointed out, work is already in progress in our major cities (I meant chennai, bangalore, mumbai, hyderabad). Add jaipur as well.... Also extention is going on in both delhi and kolkata..

Add jaipur as well.... Also extention is going on in both delhi and kolkata..

u forgot to add Ahmedabad too

Add jaipur as well.... Also extention is going on in both delhi and kolkata..

correcta-mundo! So the bottom line is that we shouldn't be surprised if we see HSR in india at the end of the decade. But let's not be too expectant, because we can be sure that if HSR aren't needed in india, they won't be build. Montek singh ahluwalia (whom I consider a brilliant strategy maker, along with P.Chidambram and the PM) said that China has excess of infrastructure (I sort of agree), while India (in the next decade) will look to reduce its infra deficit.

While I sincerely hope that HSR come to India, the money should be efficiently utilized.:cheers:

correcta-mundo! So the bottom line is that we shouldn't be surprised if we see HSR in india at the end of the decade. But let's not be too expectant, because we can be sure that if HSR aren't needed in india, they won't be build. Montek singh ahluwalia (whom I consider a brilliant strategy maker, along with P.Chidambram and the PM) said that China has excess of infrastructure (I sort of agree), while India (in the next decade) will look to reduce its infra deficit.

While I sincerely hope that HSR come to India, the money should be efficiently utilized.:cheers:


The only problem is the capability to absorb investments and funds.
The equipments for construction have shown many a fold increase due to the recent boom in construction and infrastructure and they have effect on common middle class and low class family like price rise on all essential commodities. The current manufacturers of materials in infrastructure and construction equipments have to expand their capacity in India and we need to invite all the global players related to this field to invest in India. Then only we should think of infrastructure growth.

The only problem is the capability to absorb investments and funds.
The equipments for construction have shown many a fold increase due to the recent boom in construction and infrastructure and they have effect on common middle class and low class family like price rise on all essential commodities. The current manufacturers of materials in infrastructure and construction equipments have to expand their capacity in India and we need to invite all the global players related to this field to invest in India. Then only we should think of infrastructure growth.

We are currently a bit short in infrastructure. To sustain the level of economic, military and scocial change/growth we are experiancing, augmenting the existing infra both strategically (Long term) and tactically (Short term) is the need of the hour. This is reflected while building new/upgrading airports, metro rails, BRTs, Monorails etc. All these are built keeping the future and current in mind. Investment flow increases with proper infra.

For HSR also, the same should be followed. Though buiding HSR on the scale of china is not needed and not feasible, on some routes, HSR will be beneficial. This is the process which is being followed now. Though I have doubts about IR, I am keeping my fingers crossed.
Also the existing rail infra should be upgraded with high priority.

I have been to China and travelled on both types of CRH, one on upgraded conventional line (Guangdong-Shenzhen line) which can travel up to 200 km/h and another on new passenger dedicated line (Shanghai-Nanjing line) which can travel up to 350 km/h, I think as I stated before, India can follow this model.

First, upgrade existing rail corridors by implementing track renewals, grade separation and better signalling system, then introduce 200 km/h or even 250 km/h electric trains. This way, more routes can be upgraded with the same budget to build brand new high speed rail line. Ticket price can be more affordable (not sure in your country) because you only invest on track upgrade rather than building totally new line.

When the critical mass of passengers who can afford such service reached, time to plan for brand new high speed line that has top speed of 300 or 350 km/h.

I have been to China and travelled on both types of CRH, one on upgraded conventional line (Guangdong-Shenzhen line) which can travel up to 200 km/h and another on new passenger dedicated line (Shanghai-Nanjing line) which can travel up to 350 km/h, I think as I stated before, India can follow this model.

First, upgrade existing rail corridors by implementing track renewals, grade separation and better signalling system, then introduce 200 km/h or even 250 km/h electric trains. This way, more routes can be upgraded with the same budget to build brand new high speed rail line. Ticket price can be more affordable (not sure in your country) because you only invest on track upgrade rather than building totally new line.

When the critical mass of passengers who can afford such service reached, time to plan for brand new high speed line that has top speed of 300 or 350 km/h.

^^
+1000

Yes,you are absolutely correct,now IR have LHB coaches(Used in Rajdahanis,Shatabdis,Durontos) which have the capability to run at 200 km/h,also some new WAP series engines have the capability to reach speed up to 200km/h,but due to bad quality of track and old age signaling system they can run at highest speed of 160-170 km/h.

great proposal

I do believe that one can run trains at 200km per hour on conventional rail tracks.

India in terms of geography is a much smaller nation than china.Just modify tracks to run trains between the metros (top 10 cities) at 200 km per hour.

Delhi to mumbai is about 1400km. If you can reach delhi to mumbai in 8 hours then thats super.

^^
+1000

Yes,you are absolutely correct,now IR have LHB coaches(Used in Rajdahanis,Shatabdis,Durontos) which have the capability to run at 200 km/h,also some new WAP series engines have the capability to reach speed up to 200km/h,but due to bad quality of track and old age signaling system they can run at highest speed of 160-170 km/h.

also india has other issues

like people crossing the tracks.

^^
+1000

Yes,you are absolutely correct,now IR have LHB coaches(Used in Rajdahanis,Shatabdis,Durontos) which have the capability to run at 200 km/h,also some new WAP series engines have the capability to reach speed up to 200km/h,but due to bad quality of track and old age signaling system they can run at highest speed of 160-170 km/h.

As of now, India's total investments in augmenting infrastructure and FDIs put together is not enough for construction of HSR.
It needs a still higher investments. So, financially HSR projects will not be feasible as of now.
If HSR projects are to be carried out, the projects must be started next decade. Before that, they need to give priority to all other infrastructure pojects and complete it.
I hope, atleast by 2030 all the Metro construction in existing cities will be over.

also india has other issues

like people crossing the tracks.


To prevent that they should remove the level crossings(all is not possible,but most of them can be replaced with flyovers and underpasses.),and provide high guard railings between the track in the stations,and provide barricades in the congested area(it is quite common in USA),should also cover the endpoints of the platforms.

We are currently a bit short in infrastructure. To sustain the level of economic, military and scocial change/growth we are experiancing, augmenting the existing infra both strategically (Long term) and tactically (Short term) is the need of the hour. This is reflected while building new/upgrading airports, metro rails, BRTs, Monorails etc. All these are built keeping the future and current in mind. Investment flow increases with proper infra.

For HSR also, the same should be followed. Though buiding HSR on the scale of china is not needed and not feasible, on some routes, HSR will be beneficial. This is the process which is being followed now. Though I have doubts about IR, I am keeping my fingers crossed.
Also the existing rail infra should be upgraded with high priority.


But all the infrastructure done are implemented only for Short term, except for some few cases.
If long term infra planning has to be done, then Metros must be bought to all State capitals and cities that are eligible for JnNURM funds. So, with the arrival of Metro, city planning and expansion can be done. But, seeing the status of India a decade ago, i am happy with the current developments regarding this.
Regarding the National Highways, the planning is really poor. For most of the NH upgradations, it is done only from 2 land to 4 lane. It is really poor. After some 10 years, that 4 lane road also will be congested and again a contract has to be awarded in PPP to upgrade that NH, which is a double expense.

For most of the NH upgradations, it is done only from 2 land to 4 lane. It is really poor. After some 10 years, that 4 lane road also will be congested and again a contract has to be awarded in PPP to upgrade that NH, which is a double expense.

if we will make 2 lane to 6 lane now then we will be short of funds... already the soaring interest rates are making difficult for the infra cos to raise money in india

I never been to India, therefore I admit that I have no first hand experience on taking trains in India.

However, based from the data that I read from Wikipedia, it seems incremental upgrades of railway track for 200 km/h operation can vastly improve the travel time on rail.

Case in point (China)

Beijing-Shanghai line

Before 2007 speedup programme on conventional line, the journey took 17 hours 26 minutes. After the 2007 speedup programme on conventional line, the trip can be made in just 10 hours.

They only upgrade the existing line to have several sections capable of 200 km/h and 250 km/h operation.

Only now, they built brand new 380 km/h high speed line between Beijing and Shanghai (1318 km). Travelling on this line will take just 4 hours.

Look back at India. The focus should be on not only increasing top speed, but they also need to increase average speed.

It seems the fastest train in India based on average speed, 93.1 km/h between New Delhi-Bhopal, takes 7 hours and 50 minutes over 701 kilometres.

Imagine if the average speed can be raised to 140 km/h, the same journey can be made in 5 hours.

New Delhi-Mumbai takes about 15 hours 50 minutes over 1384 km distance, with average speed of 90.5 km/h. If the average speed can be increased to 140 km/h, the journey can be made in under 10 hours, making this train service become overnight train. This is similar to the current Beijing-Shanghai overnight train which takes 9 hours 59 minutes on high-speed sleeper train.

I agree that India should work on increasing average speeds of the trains they already have. Focus on increasing speed on traditional rail and perhaps this is pie in the sky but if mag lev prices come down then India can leap frog rest of the world and build a true mag lev line.

For this to happen India should also have the capability to build the locos and the rakes or should have enough budgetary allocation to purchase from outside . The current locomotives and rakes do not have that power to run @ higher speed.
Do any one knows what is required so that the tracks can handle that speed ?

For this to happen India should also have the capability to build the locos and the rakes or should have enough budgetary allocation to purchase from outside . The current locomotives and rakes do not have that power to run @ higher speed.
Do any one knows what is required so that the tracks can handle that speed ?

The locos and coaches that we have now, are capable of running upto 250 kmph. Only the track conditions are not allowing them.

what happens?

Corruption happens in China as well.. !!! I am sure NONE of the Indian papers made a big deal of our Dragonly neighbor's recent scam involving Railway Minister Liu Zhijun .

Read more of it here...http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/03/23/new-revelations-in-chinas-railway-corruption-scandal/

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/03/23/new-revelations-in-chinas-railway-corruption-scandal/

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/03/23/new-revelations-in-chinas-railway-corruption-scandal/

deleted

I would like to see EMUs instead of locomotives + coaches on upgraded lines.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/China_railways_CRH1_high_speed_train_cimg1667bvehk.jpg/800px-China_railways_CRH1_high_speed_train_cimg1667bvehk.jpg

CRH1 (related to Bombardier Regina), top speed 200 km/h.

^^ While all these arguments are great guys - I'd like to point out - that some of these changes, in China, have been possible due to increases in their per capita Income - which I believe hovers around the 3500$ range? Even then - the prices of train travel have become quite expensive relatively speaking!!

India - with around 1200$ is much more price conscious - and Until we breach a certain barrier in the per capita threshold - Its reality that we will be stuck with our current workhorse(see image) for sometime - economics of the common man + political compulsion (can you DARE to suggest increasing fares when a politician is in charge of railways - Didi will bring down the government rather than increase fares!!) will unfortunately ensure that all HSR attempts will be fleeting and elitist in the short run!!!

Hate to be pessimistic - but I can't help but feel sad that bulk of our trains are still the slow, lumbering, cast iron rickety hulks that dump human waste onto tracks!! For the price of our tickets and economics - a better approach would be to slowly upgrade the lousy coach/rake infrastructure to acceptable levels (durontos and shatabdis are a good first baby step!!) as well as our antiquated signalling system, increasing our average speeds to 120-130 km/h - and [B]THEN begin the harder step of track transformation !! Though the former proposal would STILL need significant hikes in passenger fares !!

http://cdn.trak.in/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/IndianRailwaysBudget2009.jpg

India did it with the airports and the new metro line in Delhi is miles ahead of the rest of the world. Don't worry it will happen...in enough time. I would say in 10-15yrs construction will be in full swing.

Humn...this will happen in India sooner or later....it wont take 10-15 years I will say around next 4-5 years more...

India is changing fast....he's right Delhi metro and Airports in India are better than many around the globe...our transportation is getting better and better with intro of metro, monorails, new buses...Rail work would also get better ...

yes very true, india is moving by leaps and bounds . in 10 years years i am sure our infrastructure will be far better

The focus should be on not only increasing top speed, but they also need to increase average speed.


Absolutely!

In order for this to happen India needs to do the following:

1. Remove all manned and unmanned crossings. This can be done on a priority basis, concentrate on the golden quad section and say within 6 months convert to overhead or underground crossings. Time to execute things in parallel with independent charge/control.

2. Construct by-passes for all railway stations. This would provide a hassle free passage, instead of trains whizzing past every tom/dick/harry station, they simply take the by-pass track.

3. Use high quality LHB coaches and high horse power trains. Electric ones should be no problem traveling 150 mph.

4. Improve the signaling system to make sure the path is clear and free with no bottlenecks.

5. Increase the fares progressively. It is a myth that the Indian public cannot pay. Let us stop this Mamata Didi social nonsense. Better idea is to target the poor via the National ID system and provide direct rebates. The rest of the population pays a fair share of the charges.

6. Lastly fire Mamata Didi as Indian Railway Minister - give her coal or some useless ministry.

^^ Simply put, railways should become a separate entity like Election Commission or it should be privatised zone by zone. And please, don't start every thing from Delhi or Kolkata. Just determine which line/section has least no. of bottlenecks, finish it off first to gain momentum. Just like they privatised Kochi/HYD/BLR airport, and not the main metro ones.

Absolutely!

In order for this to happen India needs to do the following:

1. Remove all manned and unmanned crossings. This can be done on a priority basis, concentrate on the golden quad section and say within 6 months convert to overhead or underground crossings. Time to execute things in parallel with independent charge/control.

2. Construct by-passes for all railway stations. This would provide a hassle free passage, instead of trains whizzing past every tom/dick/harry station, they simply take the by-pass track.

3. Use high quality LHB coaches and high horse power trains. Electric ones should be no problem traveling 150 mph.

4. Improve the signaling system to make sure the path is clear and free with no bottlenecks.

5. Increase the fares progressively. It is a myth that the Indian public cannot pay. Let us stop this Mamata Didi social nonsense. Better idea is to target the poor via the National ID system and provide direct rebates. The rest of the population pays a fair share of the charges.

6. Lastly fire Mamata Didi as Indian Railway Minister - give her coal or some useless ministry.

Also, phase by phase all tracks in India need to be upgraded to have a capacity to travel upto 250 kmph. This will ensure that there is no need for any High speed rail line. The segment of High speed Rail can be served by Low cost Airlines.

Also, we must invite some foreign players to set up their plants and manufacture engines and coaches for all trains with IR. All the trains need to be upgraded phasely.

As stated above, all shatabdis, Janshatabdis and Intercity express can have MEMUs with speed capacity of upto 250 kmph, initially.

Many times it is said railways do not have funds...

But in real sense the funds are not utilised properly.
The cost at which a railway coach is made if properly monitered we can have great value from the same costing.

Everywhere when the project is of govt agencies the quality of material supplied , construction , speed of project implementation ...every where compromise is done.

The material of lesser value will not be purchased by the department , the higher the price you bid greater is the chance you get the contract .

_______________

.... www.india-gst.com

a huge hurdle in achieving 200 kmph on conventional tracks are the slow moving freight trains. as long as the tracks are not saperated there will be bottlenecks. goodthing we are working on dedecated freight corridors.

WAP - 5 : 5450 hp,25 kV ac, B.G. 160 km/hr. speed,3-phase drive
WAP-5 class locomotives employ advanced control and propulsion technology and are capable to deliver 5450 hp on rail. The locomotive has all the hallmarks of a high-speed propulsion unit viz. light weight, fully suspended drive and disc brake. Though presently, it has been certified for 160 kmph operation, the locomotive has been designed to give a service speed of 200 kmph with test speed potential of 225 kmph. Since IR is currently facing severe competition in Premium Passenger business market from commercial airlines, sooner or later.
http://www.clwindia.com/image/wap5_new.jpg

Source:CLW Website

Railways shortlists 6 high-speed corridors

Source (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/patna/Railways-shortlists-6-high-speed-corridors/articleshow/7834892.cms)Although introduction of Bullet trains on Indian Railway tracks is still a dream, the high-speed corridors have finally been identified by the Railway Board for pre-feasibility studies.

The governments of respective states through which the project would pass, have also agreed to share the cost of the project.

According to a Railway Board official, railway minister Mamata Banerjee has given her nod to this ambitious project conceptualized long back. Railways has identified six corridors for conducting pre-feasibility tests for running high-speed trains. They are Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna (991 km), Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar (450 km), Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad (650 km), Hyderabad-Darnakal-Vijaywada-Chennai (644 km), Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam (649 km) and Howrah-Haldia (135 km), he said.

Under the plan, railways intends to run some trains at the speed of 160 km to 200 km per hour while a few pairs of trains would have restriction to run at the speed of 160 km to 180 km per hour in different zones of railways due to track condition.

The high-speed train corridors have become the need of the hour for railways to face competition with air services. The railways is keen to provide fast running trains to people on the pattern of European countries. The high-speed corridors would thus fulfil the needs of railways at a time when it is facing tough competition with air and road transport services, said the Railway Board official.

According to him, the Patna-New Delhi route seems to be the most viable for converting it into a high-speed corridor. Tracks of superfine quality have replaced the old tracks all along the route. However, signalling system is yet to be improved on this particular route, he said.

According to sources, a high-level team comprising Railway Board officials has already held meetings with different state governments in connection with the survey work of the project's pre-feasibility.

In Bihar, Railways intends to carry out the pre-feasibility test at a cost of about Rs 15 crore, sources said, adding the total area falling under Bihar is about 200 km while the rest falls under the jurisdiction of Uttar Pradesh and Delhi state government. Introduction of high-speed trains would yield revenue to the railways as well-off passengers would prefer to travel by these trains. Railways must get uninterrupted power supply to run high-speed trains. IIT, Kharagpur, has been working on this project to make the dream project of railways a reality, sources said.

^^ I thought Railways have already short listed these routes long time back. What is new in this news ? I guess after 10 ten day or after a month we will get another news with the following heading .
"Railways finalizes 6 high-speed corridors"

and then the same news will be repeated again. Need to see some tangible actions from the Railways.

Railways shortlists 6 high-speed corridors

Source (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/patna/Railways-shortlists-6-high-speed-corridors/articleshow/7834892.cms)

When this report was published?:drool:Seems too old....

^^ Kumod Verma, TNN, Mar 31, 2011, 07.06pm IST

"According to him, the Patna-New Delhi route seems to be the most viable for converting it into a high-speed corridor. Tracks of superfine quality have replaced the old tracks all along the route. However, signalling system is yet to be improved on this particular route, he said"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So they are going to convert the existing tracks into high speed track or going for new alignment?

Looking at above statement, mostly it will be upgrading the existing tracks and run trains with same oldie blue dabbas.

But it does not suit with KM in the bracket!

Anyway this could be easy way for IR to give the taste of high speed trains in another 20years. If they go for new alignment mostly it will take more than 50years.

Here is my recommendation for the HSRL- The 2 corridors should be Chennai-Mumbai via Bangalore and Hyderabad and the second from Mumbai to Delhi via Ahmedabad

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/2794/15394192.png

"According to him, the Patna-New Delhi route seems to be the most viable for converting it into a high-speed corridor. Tracks of superfine quality have replaced the old tracks all along the route. However, signalling system is yet to be improved on this particular route, he said"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So they are going to convert the existing tracks into high speed track or going for new alignment?

Looking at above statement, mostly it will be upgrading the existing tracks and run trains with same oldie blue dabbas.

But it does not suit with KM in the bracket!

Anyway this could be easy way for IR to give the taste of high speed trains in another 20years. If they go for new alignment mostly it will take more than 50years.

Upgrading the existing lines is the correct way to go forward.... IMO...
Once that is done we can start building the dedicated corridors...

I am hopeful and optimistic that it will not take 20 years... It should happen very soon (at least 1 or 2 corridors in the next 3-5 years)...

Regarding the "oldie blue dabbas", I hope they will also upgrade their designs and have better coaches and engines...

Yes , Upgrading the existing tracks should definitely be the way fwd , but should they be used to run HSR is dabatable . This is because the exiting tracks not only runs through congested localities where people still come out top take a walk on the rail tracks , where the cycle walas still cross over the rail tracks when the fataks are down and then there will be an odd cow who will decide to cross the tracks . If these tracks can be barricaded , the railways crossing removed and convereted to flyovers and the stations along the routes can be upgraded to have proper ROBs then definitely we can run HSR on these upgraded tracks.

If there were enough laws allowing states to start their own high-speed trains, we would see a lot more high-speed rails in the country. Today, the Railways is the bottleneck.

^^ agreed! Railways is like an individual nation within nation. It has its own budget, own schools, hospitals and employs the largest number of people too.

^^ agreed! Railways is like an individual nation within nation. It has its own budget, own schools, hospitals and employs the largest number of people too.

Add to that list:

Own security force, own telecoms network, factories, service centers, companies, restaurants, hotels and what not.

Lets start posting about the existing fast trains in India, like Delhi Metro AE trains, Shatabdis, Durontos, Rajdhanis etc. and post their pics, descriptions - including the interiors....

This is a suggestion as these are the trains which come closest to the HSR and currently operational in India...

Looking at above statement, mostly it will be upgrading the existing tracks and run trains with same oldie blue dabbas.


What is there with the Blue Dabbas regarding speed? They are nice for a typical Indian country. The day time Express Trains, can be upgraded with modern coaches and can be made EMUs with modern coaches from Bombardier / anyother player.

Even now, some of the engines are having capacity of running upto 200 kmph speed. So initially, a single section can be upgraded can be tested. If it is successful, all tracks can be upgraded in phases and any new tracks laid, can be laid with the capacity of supporting higher speed.

Upgrading the existing lines is the correct way to go forward.... IMO...

Regarding the "oldie blue dabbas", I hope they will also upgrade their designs and have better coaches and engines...

High Speed trains cannot be run with the existing Blue coaches. Technically unfeasible. They are meant for speeds of only up to 110 kmph (and 120 in some restricted cases). For high speed trains of 160-180-200 kmph, we need Airconditioned coaches. Open windows will lead to air drag. In today's date, LHB coaches of Rajdhani, Shatabdi and Duronto trains are capable of 160 kmph speeds except that we need to deal with other "ground realities" to manage high speeds. The only exception is Bhopal Shatabdi running at 150 kmph between Palwal and Agra.

Wow! such a great structure. I can't believe it..I didn't know that!

http://epaper.livehindustan.com/PUBLICATIONS/HT/HP/2011/04/20/Article//006/20_04_2011_006_003.jpg

^^ Translation please?

^^ Preliminary survey for starting a bullet train between New Delhi and Patna via Lucknow has begun, according to sources in the Railways Ministry.
* Survery has started between Delhi-Agra stretch. To be completed in 6 months
* 991 km journey to take 7 hours

991 km in 7 hours. Average speed of 141 km/h!! Isn't that a bit slow? Sounds more like a super-fast train than a "Bullet" train!

This is an extract of CRH on the Wuhan–Guangzhou line in China:
It travels 968 kilometres (601 mi) in 3 hours reaching top speeds of 350 kilometres per hour (217 mph) and averaging 310 kilometres per hour (190 mph).

india ki aukad itni hi hai

^^

Instead of acquiring land and building new, special and high speed tracks, they can go on for upgrading the existing tracks. Cost ll be far more lesser than new ones. Why are they not thinking about it.

^^ Translation please?

It is saying that the survey on Delhi-Patna route for bullet train has started.

Distace = 991 kms,

Duration of journey = 7 hrs

The the train speed will be 250 kms/per hour

currently Fastest train between patna-newdelhi is Rajdhani express which takes 12.10 hrs., garib rath express 12.10 hrs etc. etc.

A bristish firm Matt Macdonald will survey it and submit its report in 7 months at the end of this year.

The train will run on magnetic track.

Rc. 8.75 crore is the cost of survey.

The route includes New Delhi - Agra - Lucknow- Varanasi - Patna

According to railway board bullet tarin will cost Rs. 70 crore per km as against normal 5.75 crore per km for normal train track.

^^ I too read 250 km/h!!

But How is 991/7=250? It could be its TOP speed (like many of our current workhorses which claim to have a tops speed of 160 km/h - never happens in practice)- but 7 hours over 991km averages to 141 kmph - unless they plan on 1 hour and 30 minute halts at each of the the three stations in between!! :D

they are probably planning single line route. and they have also made the provisions for power cuts, illegal stopages, etc.....

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/8388/indiahsrpotentialroute.gif

9ixpMtzAWVQ

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5884/95303976.jpg (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/95303976.jpg/)

JAipur

Jaipur in place of Amritsar :ohno:

991 km in 7 hours. Average speed of 141 km/h!! Isn't that a bit slow? Sounds more like a super-fast train than a "Bullet" train!

This is an extract of CRH on the Wuhan–Guangzhou line in China:

~1000 km in 7 hours is not bad at all. The high speed trains of europe are not much faster either. Take the example of Frankfurt(Main) - Berlin line (~550km). Germany's fastest train takes a little bit more than 4 hours to complete the journey. TGV takes close to 4 hours to travel from Paris to Lyon (~450 km).

~1000 km in 7 hours is not bad at all. The high speed trains of europe are not much faster either. Take the example of Frankfurt(Main) - Berlin line (~550km). Germany's fastest train takes a little bit more than 4 hours to complete the journey. TGV takes close to 4 hours to travel from Paris to Lyon (~450 km).

TGV take 2h to Lyon (http://www.voyages-sncf.com/billet-train/resultats?hid=1E4A), and 3h to Marseille (http://www.voyages-sncf.com/billet-train/resultats?hid=WMH)(900km). :nuts:

Jaipur in place of Amritsar :ohno:

There are others mistakes for others countries.

New Delhi, Apr 24 (PTI) A Spanish consortium will conduct feasibility study of the proposed 135-km-long high-speed rail corridor between Howrah and Haldia in West Bengal which is expected to cover the distance in just 30 minutes.
Trains at the speed of about 250 km per hour will run on the shortest high-speed rail corridor in the country.
Ineco along with Prointec and Ayesa, all Spanish consultants, have been given responsibility to conduct pre-feasibility study for the project, a senior Railway Ministry official told PTI.
The Spanish consortium will be paid Rs 4.5 crore for carrying out the survey and the cost will be shared by the state government and Railways. The consortium will submit its report within three months.
"The study will focus on financial viability, cost, ridership, alignment, commercial exploitation of land along the route and possible business plan of the rail corridor," said the official.
It will also cover environment and economic impact, traffic pattern, structural design and signalling solution of the proposed corridor. The feasibility study will be followed by detailed project report, the official said.
High-speed rail corridors have become the need of the hour for Railways as it faces competition from air services. The Railways is keen to provide fast-running trains to people on the pattern of European countries.
The Railways has identified six corridors for conducting pre-feasibility tests for running high-speed trains.
While the study for Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad (650 km) was completed by a French consultant Systra, Delhi-Agra-Lucknow- Varanasi-Patna (991 km) is being carried out by British firm Mott MacDonald.
Hyderabad-Darnakal-Vijaywada-Chennai (644 km), Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam (649 km) and Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar (450 km) are other corridors to be taken up for pre-feasibility study.
In order to expedite the work, the Railways is setting up an independent authority -- National High Speed Rail Authority -- to plan and execute such projects, also known as bullet train project.
Currently, it costs about Rs six crore for construction of one km rail route, while it is estimated to cost Rs 75 crore for construction of one km high-speed rail corridor.
As the high-speed corridor is a costly proposition, it is being planned to implement the project based on PPP model with the possible participation of state governments and industries.

as per me, priority should be schedules of trains and not HSR. schedules be made in such a way that most journeys would be overnight.

priority should be at

mumbai-delhi 10 hrs (overnight perfect) 10 pm to 8 am
delhi-kolkata 11 hrs (another perfect overnight)
delhi-agra 1 hr (HSR)
delhi-amritsar 4 hr 15 min. incl. delhi cdg some 2 hr 15 min. cdg-ldh 30 min. fully HSR.
mum-kolkata- 17 hr (3 pm to 8 am)
kolk-chennai also 17 hrs. so chennai-vskp is some 7 hrs, koaa-bbs around 4 hrs
delhi-chennai 20 hrs something
chennai-bangalore 2 hrs (HSR)
mum-adi 4 hr 50 min (HSR till badoda) (5 am to 9.50 am)
kolk-ghy 15 hrs (overnight almost)
hyd-mumbai 8 hrs (very much possible by simply doubling). (duranto takes 12 hrs and reaches 1 hr before time)
delhi-srinagar 12 hrs (delhi-asr is 5 hr by HSR, asr-jammu 3 hr, take 90 kmph average for JUSBRL::4 hrs)
trivendrum- mas 11 hrs. possible only after doublinf mas-mdu.



SO AS PM HAS SAID IT
rlys priority should be on the basics like doubling, schedules, high utilisation. (i wont mention electrification because it doesnt lead to higher speeds)

SO AS PM HAS SAID IT
rlys priority should be on the basics like doubling, schedules, high utilisation. (i wont mention electrification because it doesnt lead to higher speeds)

utilization if tracks is already upto 150%

~1000 km in 7 hours is not bad at all. The high speed trains of europe are not much faster either. Take the example of Frankfurt(Main) - Berlin line (~550km). Germany's fastest train takes a little bit more than 4 hours to complete the journey. TGV takes close to 4 hours to travel from Paris to Lyon (~450 km).

I have no problems with the time - the indicated speed (250 kmph) is misleading IMO. Besides, I was comparing it against the Wuhan–Guangzhou line in China - which is what we should be benchmarking against - not slower trains - even if they're in developed countries!!
Anyways, just my op, back to project news!! :)

as per me, priority should be schedules of trains and not HSR. schedules be made in such a way that most journeys would be overnight.

priority should be at

mumbai-delhi 10 hrs (overnight perfect) 10 pm to 8 am
delhi-kolkata 11 hrs (another perfect overnight)
delhi-agra 1 hr (HSR)
delhi-amritsar 4 hr 15 min. incl. delhi cdg some 2 hr 15 min. cdg-ldh 30 min. fully HSR.
mum-kolkata- 17 hr (3 pm to 8 am)
kolk-chennai also 17 hrs. so chennai-vskp is some 7 hrs, koaa-bbs around 4 hrs
delhi-chennai 20 hrs something
chennai-bangalore 2 hrs (HSR)
mum-adi 4 hr 50 min (HSR till badoda) (5 am to 9.50 am)
kolk-ghy 15 hrs (overnight almost)
hyd-mumbai 8 hrs (very much possible by simply doubling). (duranto takes 12 hrs and reaches 1 hr before time)
delhi-srinagar 12 hrs (delhi-asr is 5 hr by HSR, asr-jammu 3 hr, take 90 kmph average for JUSBRL::4 hrs)
trivendrum- mas 11 hrs. possible only after doublinf mas-mdu.



SO AS PM HAS SAID IT
rlys priority should be on the basics like doubling, schedules, high utilisation. (i wont mention electrification because it doesnt lead to higher speeds)

Long distance can be costly. First let them complete small distances between major cities where ridership is very high then extend it phase wise.
I will say
1) Pune- Mumbai
2) Surat - Mumbai
3) Chennai- Bangalore
4) Delhi- Chandigrah

Mumbai- Delhi is definately high rider ship but may be too costly.
The first 2 because lot of people work in Mumbai and live in Pune/Surat and do daily up/down. The ridership will be high enough on these routes

@ ^^

whatever routes ive posted is NOT HSR. Ive said that railways should try to achieve these timings, by increasing track speeds. That can be done by more banking, correcting radii, and LWR (long-welded rails) or continuous rails (no joint for min. 3 km)

Even today, tracks are capable of taking rajdhani from mumbai to delhi in just 11 hr 40 min. the remaining period is slack. on making the tracks fit for 160 kmph (just like delhi-agra section) this is possible in 10 hrs. on making delhi-mathura and mumbai-badoda section an HSR, this would be very much possible in 10 hrs including halts.

what i was saying,
HSRs should be BG so HSR trains can run elsewhere.

in my above list, HSRs are
mumbai-brc
asr-delhi-agra
delhi-lucknow
chennai-bangalore

P.S. mumbai-pune HSR is not viable. would require a 5 km ramp, followed by 6 km tunnel and 3 km long bridge over khadakwasla, and enter pune thru a long viaduct right from warje side. pune-mumbai 1 hr possible only if sewri-nhava-seva link has HSR BG in it.

MeMumbaikar.... ur say on this??

Mumbai- Delhi is definately high rider ship but may be too costly.
The first 2 because lot of people work in Mumbai and live in Pune/Surat and do daily up/down. The ridership will be high enough on these routes

people who commute daily WONT use HSR :lol:

utilization if tracks is already upto 150%

i dont think so. :bash:

borivali-virar before quadrupling had some 140 around locals and 80 around M/E trains, and some 20 or so freighters entering mumbai. so 240 trains/day for double line.

mumbai-delhi section at kota gets everyday just 80 M/E trains incl. passengers, and around 120 conraj+freighters. So even Mumbai-delhi saturation is not achieved.
More freighters can be added departing mumbai Jnpt at 2-3 am night.
more M/E trains can depart @ mumbai at midnight after 12; upto 1 am. (now jaipur/indore duranto uses midnight departing slot)

to my knowledge only foll. sections have achieved saturation-

virar-surat
delhi-mathura (worst- quadrupling urgent.)
indore-dewas (single line)
chennai-madurai (single line)
howrah dhanbad/adra (didi menace)

Chinese high speed rail is facing the heat of corruption and huge loss on some lines.Foe INDIA I doubt wether it will be feasible or not.But we need to upgrade tracks and introduce high quality trains with speed around 200 kmph.Also we need to upgrade our dirty and filthy stations.

we can discuss and research all we want about feasibility of high speed trains but pridicting the behaviour of millions of people is not an exact science. i think we should first construct a line. may be between mumbai ahmedabad or bangalore chennai and observe how people behave. then we can continue from there. it will also increase the industrial capacity of the country

hmm 9-10 hours for Mumbai delhi is very much possible.

1420km in 10 hours means average speed of 180 of the trains with stoppages.


Have a train running every hour




Just have an average operating speed of 140-150km per hour.(excluding stoppages)

^^ i wanted your say on Mumbai-pune thing :)

btw mum-delhi is some 1340 km.

see the PM

thats cool ok did not know its 1340 then in that case its even quicker.


Pune to Mumbai is 192km. So if they can run trains which travel the distance in say 2 hours then it will be cool.

Yes, we don't really need super duper high speed trains right now, because of the cost. Trains that travel with an average speed of 140 - 180 km/h would be enough and practical.

Chinese high speed rail is facing the heat of corruption and huge loss on some lines.

Here is a report (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/are-chinas-high-speed-trains-heading-off-the-rails/2011/04/22/AFHzaNWE_story.html) on WaPo about the issue. Take with the usual pinch of salt.

X Posting from IR Thread

Another news about 'bullet' trains. This is in hindi... for non-hindi readers, basically it says the Planning Commission (PC) of India also wants the HSR to be pursued in coming 12th plan and have sent the proposals to PMO (prime ministers office) since the PM is also the chairman of Planning Commission.

The important diff is that PC wants this HSR to be done instead for Delhi-Mumbai and Delhi-Kolkota

(Source (http://www.bhaskar.com/article/SPLDB--the-metro-will-bullet-train-2058906.html?HF=))

तो महानगरों में चलेगी बुलेट ट्रेन

प्रधानमंत्री का ‘ड्रीम प्रोजेक्ट’ माने जाने वाली बुलेट ट्रेन परियोजना को योजना आयोग ने भी पंख लगा दिए हैं। शहरों में बढ़ती आबादी के दबाव से निपटने के लिए बेहतर यातायात मुहैया कराने की परियोजना के तहत योजना आयोग ने 350 किमी प्रति घंटा की दर से हवा से बातें करने वाली बुलेट ट्रेन का मसौदा पीएमओ को भेजा है। आयोग चाहता है कि आगामी 12वीं पंचवर्षीय योजना में हाईस्पीड रेल कॉरीडोर के लिए भी आर्थिक व्यवस्था हो। तकरीबन 1000 करोड़ रुपए प्रति किमी के खर्च वाली हाईस्पीड कॉरीडोर परियोजना में फंड के बड़े हिस्से का जुगाड़ पीपीपी मॉडल से होना है।

आयोग के चेयरमैन चूंकि प्रधानमंत्री हैं, इसीलिए अंतिम सहमति के लिए फाइल पीएमओ को अनुशंसित कर दी गई है। यह बात अलग है कि आयोग के प्रस्ताव से रेल मंत्रालय को करोड़ों को घाटा उठाना पड़ेगा। इसके अलावा आयोग ने वेस्टर्न और ईस्टर्न डेडिकेटेड फ्रेट कॉरीडोर के निर्माण में तेजी लाने का सुझाव दिया है। दोनों कॉरीडोर के 12वीं पंचवर्षीय योजना के साथ खत्म होने की ‘डेडलाइन’ भी तय कर दी गई है।

क्यों घाटे में रहेगी रेलवे: बुलेट ट्रेन की परियोजना के वर्ष 2008 में आकार लेने के बाद दिल्ली-चंडीगढ़-अमृतसर और पुणो-मुंबई-अहमदाबाद मार्ग पर हाईस्पीड कॉरीडोर बनाने के लिए रेल मंत्रालय ने प्री-फिजीबिलीटी-रिपोर्ट तैयार करने के लिए अंतरराष्ट्रीय कंपनियों से आवेदन मंगाए और पुणो-अहमदाबाद मार्ग के सर्वे का काम सिस्ट्रा कंपनी को दिया गया। इस मार्ग का सर्वे कर दिया गया। सिस्ट्रा कंपनी ने सर्वे के एवज में करोड़ों रुपए रेल मंत्रालय से ले लिए। दिल्ली-अमृतसर मार्ग पर भी प्री-फिजीबिलीटी-रिपोर्ट पर काम चल रहा था। लेकिन योजना आयोग ने 12वीं पंचवर्षीय योजना में इन दो परियोजनाओं के बदले दिल्ली-मुंबई और दिल्ली-कोलकाता रेलमार्ग पर हाईस्पीड कॉरीडोर बनाने की अनुशंसा योजना आयोग ने की है। यानी इन दोनों नए रेलमार्ग पर प्री-फिजीबिलीटी-रिपोर्ट के लिए रेल मंत्रालय को नए सिरे से माथापच्ची भी करनी होगी और खर्च भी।

सियासी फायदा रेल मंत्री का: तत्कालीन रेल मंत्री लालू प्रसाद ने रेल बजट में जोरशोर से 5 रेलमार्गो पर बुलेट ट्रेन की घोषणा की थी। उसके बाद प्रधानमंत्री मनमोहन सिंह ने भी बुलेट ट्रेन की प्रासंगिकता पर जोर दिया। यूपीए-2 में ममता बनर्जी रेल मंत्री बनीं तो उनकी प्राथमिकता में बुलेट ट्रेन कभी नहीं रहा। कारण स्पष्ट था, बुलेट ट्रेन के प्रारंभिक मार्ग में कोलकाता शुमार नहीं था। अब कम से कम ऐसी बात नहीं। जो काम रेलमंत्री रहते खुद ममता बनर्जी नहीं कर सकीं, वह काम योजना आयोग ने कर दिया। उम्मीद की जा रही है कि दिल्ली-मुंबई के साथ दिल्ली-कोलकाता का नाम सुनते ही रेल मंत्रालय में भी फाइलें दौड़ने लगेंगी।

राज्य सरकारों में उत्साह: कर्नाटक और तमिलनाडु सरकार ने बुलेट ट्रेन योजना के लिए प्री-फिजीबिलीट-रिपोर्ट बनाने में आने वाले कुल खर्च में से 50 फीसदी खर्च में भागीदारी योजना को नकार दिया है। इनके अलावा सभी राज्य सरकारों ने औपचारिक सहमति रेलवे बोर्ड को दे दी है। रेलवे बोर्ड भी इसीलिए दोगुने उत्साह के साथ इस योजना को आगे बढ़ाने में जुटा हुआ है।

Per km construction costs about 70-100 crores.How did it become 1000 crores.And I doubt that railways can build bullet trains with so many corrupt officials in power.Hope it will not happen like china

Here's a very good article about the Chinese HSR wreck. I wouldn't want such a thing to happen in India. GOI is neither as wealthy as the Chinese government nor do we have a command economy.

China’s train wreck (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/chinas-train-wreck/2011/04/21/AFqjRWRE_print.html)


For the past eight years, Liu Zhijun was one of the most influential people in China. As minister of railways, Liu ran China’s $300 billion high-speed rail project. U.S., European and Japanese contractors jostled for a piece of the business while foreign journalists gushed over China’s latest high-tech marvel.

Today, Liu Zhijun is ruined, and his high-speed rail project is in trouble. On Feb. 25, he was fired for “severe violations of discipline” — code for embezzling tens of millions of dollars. Seems his ministry has run up $271 billion in debt — roughly five times the level that bankrupted General Motors. But ticket sales can’t cover debt service that will total $27.7 billion in 2011 alone. Safety concerns also are cropping up.

Faced with a financial and public relations disaster, China put the brakes on Liu’s program. On April 13, the government cut bullet-train speeds 30 mph to improve safety, energy efficiency and affordability. The Railway Ministry’s tangled finances are being audited. Construction plans, too, are being reviewed.

Liu’s legacy, in short, is a system that could drain China’s economic resources for years. So much for the grand project that Thomas Friedman of the New York Times likened to a “moon shot” and that President Obama held up as a model for the United States.

Rather than demonstrating the advantages of centrally planned long-term investment, as its foreign admirers sometimes suggested, China’s bullet-train experience shows what can go wrong when an unelected elite, influenced by corrupt opportunists, gives orders that all must follow — without the robust public discussion we would have in the states.

The fact is that China’s train wreck was eminently foreseeable. High-speed rail is a capital-intensive undertaking that requires huge borrowing upfront to finance tracks, locomotives and cars, followed by years in which ticket revenue covers debt service — if all goes well. “Any . . . shortfall in ridership or yield, can quickly create financial stress,” warns a 2010 World Bank staff report.

Such “shortfalls” are all too common. Japan’s bullet trains needed a bailout in 1987. Taiwan’s line opened in 2007 and needed a government rescue in 2009. In France, only the Paris-Lyon high-speed line is in the black.

This history counseled caution about introducing bullet trains in China, where the typical passenger was still a migrant worker, not a businessman rushing to a meeting. To be sure, there was an economic case to be made for upgrading China’s lumbering rail system: It would free up limited rail capacity for freight trains, thus reducing truck traffic on congested roads. Beijing’s initial feasibility studies envisioned the gradual introduction of trains that would move at a maximum 125 mph, according to Caixin, the Chinese economic magazine.

But Liu Zhijun — part Cornelius Vanderbilt, part Sammy Glick — took over the rail ministry in March 2003 and urged officials to aim for speeds above 200 mph. “Seize the opportunity, build more railways, and build them fast,” he wrote.

Liu exploited the communist leadership’s fascination with bigness and national prestige. Among the benefits he promised was a chance to squeeze foreign companies for bullet-train technology so that China could build and export its own. What happened next suggests that he — and others — also saw the potential for graft in such a vast undertaking.

In 2004, the State Council signed off on Liu’s plan to build the world’s largest high-speed-rail network by 2020. The first leg, a 72-mile stretch between Beijing and Tianjin, would open in time for the 2008 Olympics.

Word went forth that state-owned banks and local governments were to give Liu all the money, land and labor he required. When Chinese journalists found that Liu’s ministry was using cheap, low-quality concrete, creating a safety hazard, the Communist Party’s propaganda department quashed the reports, according to a January piece in the South China Morning Post.

Students and other humble citizens greeted the first fast trains with complaints about high ticket prices. They crowded aboard buses instead. According to a recent report in China Daily, the government was forced to deploy 70,000 extra buses during the Chinese New Year celebrations in February.

This month, I rode the bullet train from Beijing to Tianjin in half an hour — then returned by bus, which took two hours. Next to me on the decrepit, but packed, vehicle was a 17-year-old girl migrating to Beijing to search for work. She had never heard of the high-speed train, but when informed it cost $9, as opposed to $5.40 for the bus, expressed no regret at missing it. The bus driver assured me the girl was typical of his working-class clientele; to them, even a little money is more valuable than a lot of time. Small wonder that the Beijing-Tianjin line, built at a cost of $46 million per mile, is losing more than $100 million per year.

Here's a very good article about the Chinese HSR wreck. I wouldn't want such a thing to happen in India. GOI is neither as wealthy as the Chinese government nor do we have a command economy.

China’s train wreck (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/chinas-train-wreck/2011/04/21/AFqjRWRE_print.html)

This project built unprecedented levels of skills for their engineers. And it will break even in few more years than expected. They will get rid of planes and oil associated.

Once the oil prices go up, it will suddenly start to reap benefits. Till then somehow it has to sustain with govt funding. The tipping point is still a couple of years away in my opinion. As they continue to grow in their per capita GDP and rising salaries of workers, it will become more affordable as compared to today.

^^ i wanted your say on Mumbai-pune thing :)

btw mum-delhi is some 1340 km.

see the PM

Mum-Delhi Bullet train would only work if the cost of the ticket is atleast 50% that of a plane ticket between the two cities.

For smaller distances like Mum-Pune, a bullet train is really not required. A train running at speeds of 150km/hr should work very well that can cover the distance in 1.5 hours with a maximum of two 5 min stops in between - 1 on Pune side and 1 on Mumbai side.

Yes, we don't really need super duper high speed trains right now, because of the cost. Trains that travel with an average speed of 140 - 180 km/h would be enough and practical.

For a train to average 140kmph - 180kmph...it would need to do around 200kmph - 230kmph, while its running.

Anyway, even 100kmph avg between del - mumbai is very hard to achieve, since there are so many other trains that run on it. Passengers/Expresses/goods/Intercity locals...

To get a 150kmph avg between delhi and mumbai, they would need a dedicated track for fast trains, where the top speed should be around 200kmph.

Upgrading the existing tracks to 200kmph speeds wont help, when there is a lot of slow traffic, which needs to be accommodated.

Mum-Delhi Bullet train would only work if the cost of the ticket is atleast 50% that of a plane ticket between the two cities.

For smaller distances like Mum-Pune, a bullet train is really not required. A train running at speeds of 150km/hr should work very well that can cover the distance in 1.5 hours with a maximum of two 5 min stops in between - 1 on Pune side and 1 on Mumbai side.

192 KM in 1.5 hours?
That means 100km in 45 minutes.
Take 2 stops of 5 minutes each away, and you get 100km in 40minutes, which means an AVG of 150kmph.

If you take away the time it takes for the train to get upto 150kmph speed and the time it takes to come to a complete stop, which has to happen 6 times for 2 stops. Even if we say it takes 5mins for a train to get to 150kmph speed and 5 minutes from 150kmph to 0kmph... thats 6 x 5mins... = 30mins.

Thats 30mins of time the train is not doing 150Kmph avg that we need...So, basically with 2 stops of 5 minutes each...and to cover192km in 1hour 30 minutes...the train has to have a top speed of around 190-200kmph.

Is 200kmph even possible on the mumbai-pune line? And can it even sustain that speed for atleast a half hour of the 1.5hour period? And what about other traffic on that line?

Lots of questions to think about...

High speed rail is a distant dream for India..At present its only better to dream.We would see high speed rail around 2040 probably in india.

High speed rail is a distant dream for India..At present its only better to dream.We would see high speed rail around 2040 probably in india.


well realy tired of hearing so many high rise projects in mum


Man - You're an ever optimist aren't you?

192 KM in 1.5 hours?
That means 100km in 45 minutes.
Take 2 stops of 5 minutes each away, and you get 100km in 40minutes, which means an AVG of 150kmph.

If you take away the time it takes for the train to get upto 150kmph speed and the time it takes to come to a complete stop, which has to happen 6 times for 2 stops. Even if we say it takes 5mins for a train to get to 150kmph speed and 5 minutes from 150kmph to 0kmph... thats 6 x 5mins... = 30mins.

Thats 30mins of time the train is not doing 150Kmph avg that we need...So, basically with 2 stops of 5 minutes each...and to cover192km in 1hour 30 minutes...the train has to have a top speed of around 190-200kmph.

Is 200kmph even possible on the mumbai-pune line? And can it even sustain that speed for atleast a half hour of the 1.5hour period? And what about other traffic on that line?

Lots of questions to think about...


I thought the distance is about 160 km and not 190 from Pune to CST? The current lines won't support high speed trains. Even for the supposedly planned bullet trains, they were thinking of constructing a new line if it ever becomes a reality mainly because of the uneven/hilly grounds in the Lonavla/Khandala region. The fast trains will only make sense if it cover the entire distance under 2 hours at higher speeds like you mentioned.

The current 6 trains between the 2 cities are fully packed and a new line will make economical sense too but the terrain is what will make it difficult.

The 2 stops i was thinking would be Pimpri on the Pune side which is about 20 km from the Main Pune station and maybe Thane or Navi Mumbai on Mumbai side which probably is ~35km from CST. So the train should be covering ~140 km without any stops.

Once the oil prices go up, it will suddenly start to reap benefits. Till then somehow it has to sustain with govt funding. The tipping point is still a couple of years away in my opinion. As they continue to grow in their per capita GDP and rising salaries of workers, it will become more affordable as compared to today.

In any case, they have planned these projects to provide some form of employment in the short-term to their massive population. The only issue is these HSR lines in China may be incurring losses for the first couple of years and then they will slowly pick up.

On a side note, I think HSR should cater to the middle-class to upper middle-class people as an alternative to flying. This will be convenient for small business trips between cities. That is the only way to slowly promote its use. Realistically, the ticket prices won't be low enough for the poor, so we shouldn't expect them to use.

We should better have trains with avg. speed of 100-120 Km per with maximum speed of 160km/hour. That would solve our most of the problem. We should have separate track for trains unto 160km/hour speed so that trains don't have to wait for malgadi. Although all trains which can have speed upto 160km/hour should be allowed to run on that separate track with minimum distance between two trains of 100 km. This would cost only 30 crore/km unlike Bullet train which is expected to cost 100 crore/km. Moreover we would be able to keep fair as low as possible.

Even China is having problem with Bullet train fair.

This thread should have been created after the bullet trains roll.Right now there is no point in anticipating that our sincere and honest politicians will build bullet trains.

192 KM in 1.5 hours?
That means 100km in 45 minutes.
Take 2 stops of 5 minutes each away, and you get 100km in 40minutes, which means an AVG of 150kmph.

If you take away the time it takes for the train to get upto 150kmph speed and the time it takes to come to a complete stop, which has to happen 6 times for 2 stops. Even if we say it takes 5mins for a train to get to 150kmph speed and 5 minutes from 150kmph to 0kmph... thats 6 x 5mins... = 30mins.

Thats 30mins of time the train is not doing 150Kmph avg that we need...So, basically with 2 stops of 5 minutes each...and to cover192km in 1hour 30 minutes...the train has to have a top speed of around 190-200kmph.

Is 200kmph even possible on the mumbai-pune line? And can it even sustain that speed for atleast a half hour of the 1.5hour period? And what about other traffic on that line?

Lots of questions to think about...

the bullet train would obviously not run on the bullock-cart track which goes fancying all the way from lonavala khandala etc and covers each and every village which comes on its way

itll have a dedicated track. itll be built over a new bridge spanning the vashi creek, or maybe would be made to run on sewri-nhava seva bridge. itll be built with the least distance and thats around 144 km and not 192 km.

P.S. delhi-agra distance of 192 km also can be covered in 1 hr incl halt at mathura, with another single dedicated track for HSR.

P.P.S. british used to run deccan queen in 2 hr 35 mins before independence. Now it takes 3 hr 5 min due to increased halts and safety factors. by the way have heard from friend that pune duranto does dombivali-pune stretch in flat 2 hrs.

We should better have trains with avg. speed of 100-120 Km per with maximum speed of 160km/hour. That would solve our most of the problem. We should have separate track for trains unto 160km/hour speed so that trains don't have to wait for malgadi. Although all trains which can have speed upto 160km/hour should be allowed to run on that separate track with minimum distance between two trains of 100 km. This would cost only 30 crore/km unlike Bullet train which is expected to cost 100 crore/km. Moreover we would be able to keep fair as low as possible.

Even China is having problem with Bullet train fair.

perfect...... minimum dist may not be as hgh as 100 km. IMHO a dedicated SINGLE LINE HSR track would be sufficient from mumbai-vadodara and delhi-mathura section to make mumbai-delhi in 10 hrs, plus add faster connection to a whole bunch of cities like valsad surat ahmedabad vadodara udaipur jaipur indore agra to mumbai and delhi in max 12 hrs.

On a side note, I think HSR should cater to the middle-class to upper middle-class people as an alternative to flying. This will be convenient for small business trips between cities. That is the only way to slowly promote its use. Realistically, the ticket prices won't be low enough for the poor, so we shouldn't expect them to use.

Targeting business people seems to be the right market to sell to at the moment. We should maintain both the rail systems unlike in China where they are discontinuing the slower trains thereby forcing people to pay higher to travel.

We have an excellent network density of trains and what's needed is another supplemental HS system catering to middle class and upper middle class. Question remains that even if they were to decide today, it will take almost a decade to see it in reality.

First target of indian railways should be to exceed the avg speed of a bus or car. That is 120kmph avg is enough. So that mumbai to delhi overnight, upto 16 hours journey can be called overnight as u will be spared 8 hours for work

You are right.Hsr ticket for mum-delhi might cost around 5000.Other wise it wont be a profit.If you pay a little more you can board a flight.I think upgradation of tracks,coaches and cleaning shit in railway staions is more than enough.200 kmph speed trains are more than enough for India.

^^ I agree. Just by the above measures I am sure Chennai - Delhi can be done in 12 hours or less. If sectors like this become overnight journeys, it will be more than enough for India. Cost of travel will also be affordable.

First target of indian railways should be to exceed the avg speed of a bus or car. That is 120kmph avg is enough. So that mumbai to delhi overnight, upto 16 hours journey can be called overnight as u will be spared 8 hours for work

mumbai delhi rajdhani already does the journey in 16 hr 5 min. The scheduled duranto would take 15 hr 50 min.

^^ I agree. Just by the above measures I am sure Chennai - Delhi can be done in 12 hours or less. If sectors like this become overnight journeys, it will be more than enough for India. Cost of travel will also be affordable.

Dear,
chennai-delhi is some 2200 kms. doing it in 12 hrs or less is keeping an average of 200 kmph. :bash: which means top speed of train should be 320 kmph or so. :bash: which means entire line should be HSR, including the Itarsi-Ghoradongri ghat section. :bash: at some 800cr/km, the cost of this would run in 1.2 crore crores. :bash: Tell me such an ambitious plan implemented anywhere else in the world :bash::bash::bash:

^^Not necessary. I understand there are locos currently in use that are good for 250 KMPH speed. What is needed is track/rolling stock upgradation and limited stops + right of way to enable an average speed of around 150 KMPH or so, and the distance is doable in about 14 hours. Leave Chennai at 5.00 PM, arrive Delhi 7.00 AM the next day, and you are good to go! Overnight need not exactly be 12 hours!

And oh, by the way don't go overboard with smileys!:)

well I think even today chennai raj does delhi-agra section at 140 kmph. nagpur-warangal-hyderabad can be made fit to 160 kmph r so

But by no means can delhi-chennai be done in less than 19 hrs for sure, in the next 50 years. the reason being the ghat section at etarsi.

Sorry for the smileys, I was too much over with your thought of delhi-chennai in 12 hrs :lol:

and WAP5 is the loco which can be upgraded to 200 kmph, (not 150) and fastest ever speed attained on a trial basis was with a WAP5 and 3 LHB coaches and it was some 184 kmph done around 10 years ago.

Currently hyderabad delhi takes 21 hours with avg speed of 78kph. That should be reduced to 14-16 hours..

chinnai-delhi and bangalore-delhi overnight is difficult, instead we should make one supreme court bench in south india (or even mumbai) so common man can afford to get justice, then only politicians will need to go to delhi. chennai-mumbai can be made overnight

mumbai-blore and mum-chennai is posible in 13 hrs (after improving tracks and completely doubling).

Today, its possible in 17 hr 30 min. (see mumbai-hyderabad duranto upto wadi= 9 hrs 5 min+ wadi-raichur 1 hr + blore rajdhani from raichur-blore= 7 hr 30 min)

Hyb-delhi can be done in 16 hrs after delhi-agra HSR and delhi-bhopal upgraded to 200 kmph. Today it cant go anything faster than 20 hrs ...

The slack of rajdhani (and the proposed duranto) should be further reduced. The tracks are fit to take these trains in 14 hrs. with slack. With no slack, distance is possible even in 11 hr 40 min.

The Beijing-Shanghai bullet train has begun trials ahead of schedule !

Take a look (http://www.cnngo.com/shanghai/visit/shanghai-beijing-high-speed-train-trail-begins-258304?hpt=C2)

X- POSTING from IR thread

Railways working on high-speed corridor project

PATNA: Under the Vision 2020 plan, the Indian Railways has decided to complete its most ambitious high-speed corridor project.

While a feasibility study of the proposed high-speed passenger train corridors at six places across the country is being carried out at identified places, the railways is keen to accelerate the pace of development work now. The railways intends to run high-speed passenger trains at 200-250 kmph. Currently, trains run at the maximum speed of 160 kmph on the Delhi-Bhopal route.

The railways has already identified these places located on the Delhi-Chandigarh, Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Hyderabad-Vijawada-Chennai, Howrah-Haldia, Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore- Ernakulam and Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna sections. The feasibility study is being taken up on cost-sharing basis with the governments in these states.


According to a former technical expert of the railways, G N Sahay, the proposed high-speed passenger train corridors have become inevitable for the railways to keep pace with air services. "Countries like Turkey and Morocco are well set to introduce high-speed corridor passenger trains soon. The Indian Railways must not lag behind now," he said.


Sahay said it would provide an alternative mode of communication to passengers at a time when the cost of travelling by air and train is more or less the same in AC first class .Besides, it would be the fastest journey by trains in the country, he said .


According to Sahay, the railways initially intends to develop a stretch of about 2000 km as the high-speed corridor in the country. :lol::lol::nuts:The railways proposes to build elevated corridors at those points where fencing on tracks is not feasible on high-speed corridor routes.

The Patna-New Delhi route could be converted into a high-speed corridor. Tracks have been replaced all along the route. The present track condition is conducive to run high-speed trains on the Patna-New Delhi route. :nuts::nuts: However, the railways needs to improve signalling system on this particular route, he said.


According to sources, the total cost of the survey work on the Patna-Delhi route would incur about Rs 11 crore. Since the 1000-km-long route falls under the territories of Bihar, UP and Delhi, the total area falling under Bihar is hardly 200 km, sources said.


A Railway Board official described a meeting held recently with the state government as positive. The state government would cooperate with the railways while carrying out the work on the high-speed corridor project. This ambitious project will enable the railways to increase its earnings, he said .


According to Sahay, the Indian Railways has the largest network in the country. Introduction of high-speed passenger trains on the pattern of foreign counties would fill railway coffers as elite class passengers would prefer to undertake journey safely by such high-speed trains.


"The project will be directly monitored by the High Speed Authority in the country to expedite fast development of the network," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/patna/Railways-working-on-high-speed-corridor-project/articleshow/8856548.cms

Source (http://in.news.yahoo.com/railways-high-speed-trains-may-french-connection-034800784.html;_ylt=AtLPb82RmzvnlNQjFRrYxl67scB_;_ylu=X3oDMTM5c211Z2RyBHBrZwMyZDhiYTZjZS03ZjU0LTMzYjgtODAzMS03M2EzYjRmZGEwZDIEcG9zAzUEc2VjA01lZGlhVG9wU3RvcnkEdmVyAzgyNmQwNjIwLTlhMjc)
Railways high speed trains may have French connection

New Delhi, Jun 19 (PTI) Railways is mulling to name its proposed high speed train service as TGS (Tibra Gatee Seva) on the pattern of TGV, the bullet train service in France.

France''s TGV, which stands for ''Train � Grande Vitesse'' or high speed train in English, is renowned for its speed and comfort, running at 280-300 km/hour speed on five major lines.

Some of the premier train services are named by Railways as Rajdhani, Shatabdi and Duronto.

Railways which is setting up the National High Speed Rail Authority to implement and monitor the high speed train project in the country is currently awarding contracts to global consultants for conducting feasibility studies of the proposed routes.

"As of now we are in the process of awarding contracts for the pre-feasibility studies of the proposed high speed corridors," a senior Railway Ministry official said.

As far as naming the proposed bullet trains is concerned, the official said, "No final decision has been taken yet to name it as TGS. This may be a just proposal as these trains are meant to cover distances of up to 600 km in two to three hours," the official said.

Railways plans to make the high speed rail corridor into a catalyst for India''s economic growth, a stimulus for the development of satellite towns and reduction of migration to cities.

"We have awarded three foreign consultants to carry out studies in three corridors out of the six identified routes for conducting pre-feasibility studies for developing high speed rail corridors," the official said.

Chandigarh bullet train to start rolling soon

(Source: ToI (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/Chandigarh-bullet-train-to-start-rolling-soon/articleshow/8931569.cms))

A bullet train ferrying passengers from Chandigarh to New Delhi at a speed of 200 km per hour and reaching national capital in less than one-and-a-half hours would soon be a reality with Northern Railways, who are currently conducting a feasibility study to ascertain where all strengthening of railway track would be required on the existing track between the two cities.

The bullet train, an integral part of High Speed Corridor (HSC), would run between New Delhi to Chandigarh to Ludhiana and onwards to Amritsar. The corridor would be the first among six in the country to be started, with the other five being Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Hyderabad-Vijayawada-Chennai, Howrah-Haldia, Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulum and Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna sections.

Speaking to TOI, senior Northern Railways official in New Delhi said, ''Northern railways is actively looking at creating HSC in the region and have begun a feasibility study along with concerned departments of state governments. This would be the first-of-its-kind in the country and would prove to be a major hit with passengers.''

The introduction of high-speed passenger trains on the pattern of foreign countries would no doubt fill railway coffers with high-end passengers preferring to undertake their journey on trains rather than airplane.

Amit Bhatia, resident of Sector 9, said, ''The bullet train would become the most preferred mode of transport to New Delhi as the time taken by the train to travel to the destination would be next to nothing. Getting to New Delhi in an hour-and-a-half would be very beneficial for businessmen as for them time is money.''

Gaurav Malik, resident of Sector 16, said, ''The train would be very useful for people who need to travel to New Delhi and return the same day. Even though the cost of train ticket would be more than other trains, the fact that one would be able to get to New Delhi in less than one-and-a-half hours would make up for that.''
:nuts:

19/06/2011
Railways high speed trains may have French connection (http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5218584)

New Delhi, Jun 19 (PTI) Railways is mulling to name its proposed high speed train service as TGS (Tibra Gatee Seva) on the pattern of TGV, the bullet train service in France.
France''s TGV, which stands for ''Train Grande Vitesse'' or high speed train in English, is renowned for its speed and comfort, running at 280-300 km/hour speed on five major lines.
Some of the premier train services are named by Railways as Rajdhani, Shatabdi and Duronto.
Railways which is setting up the National High Speed Rail Authority to implement and monitor the high speed train project in the country is currently awarding contracts to global consultants for conducting feasibility studies of the proposed routes.
"As of now we are in the process of awarding contracts for the pre-feasibility studies of the proposed high speed corridors," a senior Railway Ministry official said.
As far as naming the proposed bullet trains is concerned, the official said, "No final decision has been taken yet to name it as TGS. This may be a just proposal as these trains are meant to cover distances of up to 600 km in two to three hours," the official said.
Railways plans to make the high speed rail corridor into a catalyst for India''s economic growth, a stimulus for the development of satellite towns and reduction of migration to cities.
"We have awarded three foreign consultants to carry out studies in three corridors out of the six identified routes for conducting pre-feasibility studies for developing high speed rail corridors," the official said. (More) PTI ARU RAI ZMN

An what about kasargod thiruvunantapuram bullet train...i heard that delhi metro is undertaking pre feasibility studies for this line

X -Posting from Kolkata Suburbun Railway Thread

Kolkata to Haldia in less than an hour
NEED FOR SPEED SPURS TWIN PROJECTS: FAST TRACK TO HALDIA, 40 ‘ARC ROAD’ TO BARASAT

Haldia may finally get the boost it needs to realize its full potential as an industrial and business hub. More than two decades after Haldia Petrochemicals set up shop, the sea-port town is likely to get the first bullet traintype corridor in the country.
Lalu Prasad had first proposed running India's version of 'bullet trains' in his last railway budget in 2009. The people called it a pipe-dream. When Mamata Banerjee became railways minister, she revived the proposal and announced that pre-feasibility studies would be carried out for six high-speed corridors. The then Bengal government had agreed to bear 50% cost of the pre-feasibility study for a high speed route between Kolkata (Howrah or Sealdah) and Haldia.
Now, Mamata, in her capacity as chief minister of West Bengal, has gone a step further. She has given railway consultancy body RITES the go-ahead to carry out a study on an elevated corridor to Haldia. This 'tracks on stilts' will do away with the need to acquire large tracts of land and will also cut the distance between the state capital and Haldia - which was proposed to be the largest business hub in Bengal - by nearly half.
"The former state government had made attempts to develop Haldia into the most important business destination in Bengal. But one of the main impediments was the lack of proper connectivity. Even today, it takes nearly two and a half hours to travel to Haldia by road or rail. No investor would feel confident if it takes so long to cover a distance of 135 km. Mamata, immediately after taking over as chief minister, turned her attention to Haldia and resumed attempts to develop it into a sought after destination for investors. For this, connectivity has to be improved. While work on the national highway between Mecheda and Haldia has resumed, the chief minister also wants a high-speed rail corridor between the two cities," an official said.
She has asked RITES to explore the prospect of connecting Haldia through an elevated corridor from both Howrah and Sealdah. Officials are already trying to find out how much compensation would have to be paid to farmers and other landowners if pillars (for the elevated corridor) were to be erected on their land. Howrah already has a rail connection to Haldia via Panskura. The elevated corridor would not have to follow this alignment though and could take a more direct route. Officials believe that the distance between the two cities could be cut down to about 80-90 km. A high-speed train, running along a dedicated corridor, could cover this distance in less than an hour. The idea is to get people to commute to Haldia from Kolkata in a jiffy.
"The connection from Sealdah would be shorter and it could link-up with the proposed bridge between Raichak and Kukrahati. Even from Howrah, the elevated corridor would not have to go up to Panskura but could turn towards Haldia after crossing the Rupnarayan at Kolaghat," the official said.
One of the main concerns would be the exorbitant cost involved. According to officials, every km of elevated track costs nearly Rs 25 crore. This could send the project expense spiraling to over Rs 2,000 crore. Sources close to Mamata, however, said that the chief minister is confident that the railways can look forward to private participation. TNN

^^

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/9716/bulletn.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/bulletn.jpg/)

mumbai delhi rajdhani already does the journey in 16 hr 5 min. The scheduled duranto would take 15 hr 50 min.

No. Mumbai-New Delhi Duronto will be consuming over 17 hours. Both ways it will be around ~17.20-17.30 hours. Time schedules have been posted in other threads. Please check.

Dear,
chennai-delhi is some 2200 kms. doing it in 12 hrs or less is keeping an average of 200 kmph. :bash: which means top speed of train should be 320 kmph or so. :bash: which means entire line should be HSR, including the Itarsi-Ghoradongri ghat section. :bash: at some 800cr/km, the cost of this would run in 1.2 crore crores. :bash: Tell me such an ambitious plan implemented anywhere else in the world :bash::bash::bash:
1.76 lakh crore equal to 2g scam

Planes are the way to travel for a rich person in India, not trains. They should only cut down on the times for all those checks and build a fast access to the airports.

Converting the existing routes for High Speed Bullets will not only cost more but also disturb regular traffic.

They should lay new exclusive High Speed Cargo Corridors, which will also be used by Bullet trains.

They should link all metros with Delhi and with other metros. Major Ports should also be connected to nearby Metros.

http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/PUBLICATIONS/HT/HM/2011/07/12/Article//002/12_07_2011_002_002.jpg

IE (http://www.indianexpress.com/story-print/817335/)
Vadodara-Mumbai in 3 hours flat: Japanese arrive for study

Vadodara : While the Mumbai-New Delhi Semi High-Speed Rail Network (SHSRN) may take its own time to complete, it will be the Vadodara division of the Western Railway which would reap the first harvest.
Officials said that though the pilot project would be between Surat and Ratlam, the actual project implementation would start between Mumbai and Vadodara, for which an expert team from Japan is in India for a detailed study. A K Srivastav, Divisional Railway Manager, Western Railway, Vadodara division, said: “We will have the benefit of being the first in the project route, which would eventually connect Delhi and Mumbai. The pilot project would start in 2017 after due deliberations and studies conducted by the experts. And if everything goes as per the plan, the distance between Vadodara and Mumbai would be covered in just three hours.”

A team from Mitsubishi Research Institute, Japan, was in Vadodara on Wednesday to explore the feasibility of converting the existing rail track between Mumbai and New Delhi into SHSRN. The team observed the major installation in the divisional office controlling the movement of train and also the self-controlled device of Traction Distribution and control office. Later, the team visited the Route Relay Interlocking at Vadodara railway station, which controls the movements of all passenger and goods trains coming from Mumbai, Godhra and Ahmedabad.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Japan-team-studies-feasibility-of-semi-high-speed-rail-in-Gujarat/articleshow/9216683.cms
Vadodara-Mumbai in 3 hours flat: Japanese arrive for study

Vadodara : While the Mumbai-New Delhi Semi High-Speed Rail Network (SHSRN) may take its own time to complete, it will be the Vadodara division of the Western Railway which would reap the first harvest.
Officials said that though the pilot project would be between Surat and Ratlam, the actual project implementation would start between Mumbai and Vadodara, for which an expert team from Japan is in India for a detailed study. A K Srivastav, Divisional Railway Manager, Western Railway, Vadodara division, said: “We will have the benefit of being the first in the project route, which would eventually connect Delhi and Mumbai. The pilot project would start in 2017 after due deliberations and studies conducted by the experts. And if everything goes as per the plan, the distance between Vadodara and Mumbai would be covered in just three hours.”

A team from Mitsubishi Research Institute, Japan, was in Vadodara on Wednesday to explore the feasibility of converting the existing rail track between Mumbai and New Delhi into SHSRN. The team observed the major installation in the divisional office controlling the movement of train and also the self-controlled device of Traction Distribution and control office. Later, the team visited the Route Relay Interlocking at Vadodara railway station, which controls the movements of all passenger and goods trains coming from Mumbai, Godhra and Ahmedabad.

Thats a good idea to upgrade certain sections....its enough to run at 200 kmph...we cant build elevated tracks on all the routes..it will be costly

And will they run the normal blue dabbas or import new trains from japan

Ahmedabad-mumbai-pune line is likely to be scrapped...the cost has increased from 56000 crores to nearly 85000 crores due to huge delays...this line is doubtful...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Japan-team-studies-feasibility-of-semi-high-speed-rail-in-Gujarat/articleshow/9216683.cms
Vadodara-Mumbai in 3 hours flat: Japanese arrive for study

Vadodara : While the Mumbai-New Delhi Semi High-Speed Rail Network (SHSRN) may take its own time to complete, it will be the Vadodara division of the Western Railway which would reap the first harvest.
Officials said that though the pilot project would be between Surat and Ratlam, the actual project implementation would start between Mumbai and Vadodara, for which an expert team from Japan is in India for a detailed study. A K Srivastav, Divisional Railway Manager, Western Railway, Vadodara division, said: “We will have the benefit of being the first in the project route, which would eventually connect Delhi and Mumbai. The pilot project would start in 2017 after due deliberations and studies conducted by the experts. And if everything goes as per the plan, the distance between Vadodara and Mumbai would be covered in just three hours.”

A team from Mitsubishi Research Institute, Japan, was in Vadodara on Wednesday to explore the feasibility of converting the existing rail track between Mumbai and New Delhi into SHSRN. The team observed the major installation in the divisional office controlling the movement of train and also the self-controlled device of Traction Distribution and control office. Later, the team visited the Route Relay Interlocking at Vadodara railway station, which controls the movements of all passenger and goods trains coming from Mumbai, Godhra and Ahmedabad.

mumbai vadodaa distance is around 450 km...so 3 hours means trains will run at 150 kmph...what kind of high speed rail is this,....

mumbai vadodaa distance is around 450 km...so 3 hours means trains will run at 150 kmph...what kind of high speed rail is this,....

150kmph is the average speed. If you look at the current train's avg speed between mumbai and vadodara...I am guess it would be somewhere around 50 to 60kmph.

I am guessing that the trains would have a top speed of 200 250kmph, which is very decent compared to current system.

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=TOIKM/2011/07/17/14/Img/Ad0141100.png

Is it feasible to do this given the cost?

This is again a Pre- feasibility study only . I thought they have already done this study before. Haven't they ?

^^ the earlier studies will be moved to the pre-pre feasibility study to make place for the 'newer' pre-feasibility study.

indians like education very much.They like to study

wth!!! pre- feasibility?? I never seem to understand the purpose of a pre- feasibility study. Probably an eyewash and to waste more time and money! By now all feasibility studies should have been completed and DPR's should be the only thing pending.:bash:

indians like education very much.They like to study

:lol:

Euroji,You really make me laugh !

wth!!! pre- feasibility?? I never seem to understand the purpose of a pre- feasibility study. Probably an eyewash and to waste more time and money! By now all feasibility studies should have been completed and DPR's should be the only thing pending.:bash:

Almost every single article I read about high speed rail is only about "considering", "planning", "proposing" and "plans are afoot..". Nothing other than plans!

Forget High speed rail - I think it will be impressive if they can overhaul the bulk of our rakes and bogies that are so accident-prone and still drop human waste onto tracks with the hole-in-the-floor toilets, and give our railways some semblance of 21st century railways - I would consider it a great progression!!!

Its unbelievable that in the 21st century - most of our trains still drop s**t onto the tracks!!! Its a ghastly sight when the tens of thousands international visitors face that kind of thing for the first time!! Our own people have stopped caring in light of railway apathy!!

I am going to create a new committee that will conduct pre-feasibility study into evaluating whether there should be a pre-feasibility study for this project.

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=TOIKM/2011/07/17/14/Img/Ad0141100.png

They should have taken up BLR-HBL-PUNE instead.
No use of BLR-CHE-CBE-IRN to Karnataka

They should have taken up BLR-HBL-PUNE instead.
No use of BLR-CHE-CBE-IRN to Karnataka

i don't get your reason for your opposition to the CHE-BLR line. How does its benefit (only) to Karnataka important?

i don't get your reason for your opposition to the CHE-BLR line. How does its benefit (only) to Karnataka important?
+1.

@Naveen - this is just the beginning. They will connect big cities and then connect other cities with high-speed rail. In the South, BLR, CHN, HYD, CBE etc. are big cities.

^^ Coimbatore and kochin are smaller cities than say bangalore-pune-mumbai or bangalore-hyderabad.

^^ Coimbatore and kochin are smaller cities than say bangalore-pune-mumbai or bangalore-hyderabad.
You have to read my post carefully...I said 'in the South' :) Mysore is very close to BLR to be considered as corridor for high-speed rail. On the other hand, Cochin, although a small city is in a KL which needs coverage from high-speed rail. Other than that, the other cities that I have mentioned there are the big cities of the south.

You have to read my post carefully...I said 'in the South' :) Mysore is very close to BLR to be considered as corridor for high-speed rail. On the other hand, Cochin, although a small city is in a KL which needs coverage from high-speed rail. Other than that, the other cities that I have mentioned there are the big cities of the south.

What south got to do with high speed rail? Just like other guy above asked what advantage to ka got to do with. Your comment is illogical at best. We know tn and ap and even kl lobby is strong in railways. What is good for indian railways is bangalore-hyd or pune than bangalore to cbe or kochi. We will have pune mumbai high speed already. Bangalore to chennai we are not objecting. You can fool some illiterates.

As for lobby u can see proposed corridors hyd-vijaywada-chennai and chennai-bangalore-cbe-kochi which circle ka state but never through it :(

What south got to do with high speed rail? Just like other guy above asked what advantage to ka got to do with. Your comment is illogical at best. We know tn and ap and even kl lobby is strong in railways. What is good for indian railways is bangalore-hyd or pune than bangalore to cbe or kochi. We will have pune mumbai high speed already. Bangalore to chennai we are not objecting. You can fool some illiterates.

As for lobby u can see proposed corridors hyd-vijaywada-chennai and chennai-bangalore-cbe-kochi which circle ka state but never through it :(

Gentem, its not size of cities, that determine nessecity of high speed rail travel or not. Its actually extend of people travelling in the sector and extend of which people are willing to pay.

Kochi might be small city in terms of population, because the state's urbansphere is more spread out than concenrating all in one city. If you look, around 3 to 4 lakh people travel on a daily basis from other parts of state, work and go back to their home places. So don't take a city population stats and consider development projects. It may be true in other parts of India, but not true in Kerala.

The city has a huge travelling population to Chennai, Coimbatore and Bangalore. The Kerala-TN govt are in talks for a Kochi-Coimbatore Industrial corridor. And large number of people regularly pay high premium bus fares to travel. These surely justify commercial prospects of a line.

In addition, Kochi is a premium tourist destination and travellers do come in large numbers, which now depend on time consuming trains or air flights. HSR might be another alternative.

We are not looking for any charity to draw a line for sake of prestige. Let the feasiblity study happens and if our professional experts finds its commercial viable, let it happen, else leave it out!!!

What south got to do with high speed rail? Just like other guy above asked what advantage to ka got to do with. Your comment is illogical at best. We know tn and ap and even kl lobby is strong in railways. What is good for indian railways is bangalore-hyd or pune than bangalore to cbe or kochi. We will have pune mumbai high speed already. Bangalore to chennai we are not objecting. You can fool some illiterates.

As for lobby u can see proposed corridors hyd-vijaywada-chennai and chennai-bangalore-cbe-kochi which circle ka state but never through it :(

Without talking about state lobbies, I think the point being made was that wrt to the route mentioned was that it was primarily an E-W route in the southern region. For a route to be economically feasible, you need to evaluate the potential patronage along the whole route and not just the major cities it connects. With that in mind, a Chennai-CMB-Kochi (and mebbe TRV) route makes sense (And so does a BLR-Anantapur-HYD or a BLR-Solapur-Pune route) even though many cities in the route have less population. You must understand as mohammedirshad06 pointed out that demographics of Kerala are a little different from other bigger states and so the population of the city proper is not a true indicator of patronage for metro or other forms of transit.

They should have taken up BLR-HBL-PUNE instead.
No use of BLR-CHE-CBE-IRN to Karnataka

Agree ... Chennai-Bengaluru-Hyderabad would have made more sense even for the sake of study.

Imagine if a train can cover BLR-HYD under 6 hrs and BLR-CHE under 2 hrs. :cheers:

Agree ... Chennai-Bengaluru-Hyderabad would have made more sense even for the sake of study.

Imagine if a train can cover BLR-HYD under 6 hrs and BLR-CHE under 2 hrs. :cheers:

It seems, people from other states have little knowledge Kerala and its market potential. Hey guys, Kerala is definetly one of the most richest states in India. Its a state of several uniqueness and contrasts. The state GDP is very low, but household purchasing power is almost 10 times that of metros. Every year banks in Kerala recevie more than 1.61 lakh crore just in form of remittances, which now simply remain as dead money and convert into mere consumer purchases.

The state itself is mooting idea of intra state HSR. Looking at metro population doesnot justify any purchasing power status. Naturally Cochin as a point in Kerala makes prefect choice for inter city connections.

If Patna-Delhi can be considered, there is no need to doubt about Kochi's potentiality. I am not saying Kochinites alone use this service. Its more centralized location to allow all Keralites to travel to Chennai or Bangalore and vice versa to make profits.....

Let study happens and realize the potentiality....

^^ +1 about your comment on KL. :cheers: BLR has lots of migrant floating population...the % of pple from S.India migrating to BLR is greater than those migrating from N.India. So, a quick access to BLR from other S.Indian cities is required.

A similar case holds good for Mumbai.

What south got to do with high speed rail? ...(

I don't know if I have to :lol: or say :ohno: for this statement.

HSR is required for various regions in the country. Initially it will be confined to important cities in a region...then, it will integrated into the national network. With the costs involved, you can only take one step at a time.

^^ +1 about your comment on KL. :cheers: BLR has lots of migrant floating population...the % of pple from S.India migrating to BLR is greater than those migrating from N.India. So, a quick access to BLR from other S.Indian cities is required.

A similar case holds good for Mumbai.

True:) A huge population of BLR comprises of Malayalee Techies working in BLR. This holds same in case of Chennai too. Most of them travel to Kerala once in a week or two. Once HSR becomes reality, perhaps frequent travel is possible.

This is important, because in long run, floating population helps to reduce city congestion. BLR is literarily reeling under huge population. If people settled in places like Coimbatore/Kochi and travel only for work, surely the pressure and cost on BLR will reduce. It will also redistribute uncontrolled growth and many other urban issues.

Kerala to some extent achieved this, because of better intra-state transportation, helping people to distribute within the state.

^^ I the US, you have state taxes in the states where you work and where you live. Sometimes, you need not pay taxes in the state where you live. When this HSR becomes a reality, the distance between population hubs will reduce thereby resulting in improving the economy and getting rid of civic problems.

The entire mainland Japan is just about 4 routes - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen

True:) A huge population of BLR comprises of Malayalee Techies working in BLR. This holds same in case of Chennai too. Most of them travel to Kerala once in a week or two. Once HSR becomes reality, perhaps frequent travel is possible.

This is important, because in long run, floating population helps to reduce city congestion. BLR is literarily reeling under huge population. If people settled in places like Coimbatore/Kochi and travel only for work, surely the pressure and cost on BLR will reduce. It will also redistribute uncontrolled growth and many other urban issues.

Kerala to some extent achieved this, because of better intra-state transportation, helping people to distribute within the state.

Shouldnt we change that? Why are we trying to connect Tier cities? to some other metro city? There is huge population of North Karnataka people in BLR dont they need proper train service ? Tell me one good train service for people of Belgaum/Raichur/Bijapur/Bidar/Bagalkot even other parts like Mangalore are not that well connected to BLR from rail or Air.

Mumbai to Delhi in 7 hours?
Indian Railways’ Project Could Reduce Travel Time By Half

Manthan K Mehta TNN

Mumbai: If all goes as planned, your train travel time between the national and the commercial capitals of India could soon come down by at least half. According to railway officials, the infrastructure for the Golden Rail Corridor, which will have trains running at semihigh speed (160-200 kmph) between New Delhi and Mumbai, is likely to cost around Rs 5,000 crore. The cost, they say, is relatively low as the railways will not have to acquire land for the project.
Once the project takes off, the New Delhi-Mumbai travel time will be reduced to six to seven hours. At present, Rajdhani Express, the fastest train on the Indian railway, runs at 120-130 kmph and takes at least 16 hours to cover a distance of 1,400 km between the two cities.
Sharat Chandrayan, chief public relations officer, WR, said, “A delegation from the Japanese government that visited India last week is satisfied as far as the commercial viability of the project is concerned. Another team will soon visit the country to study the technical aspects of the project.”
A high-speed train runs above 250 km/hour, for which separate infrastructure, including the tracks, is required. For this, land acquisition is necessary. “These semi-high speed trains will run on existing tracks, so land need not be acquired. No major changes need to be made in the existing track design. The loop design (at points and crossings), however, will have to be modified to ensure that the train is able to change the track at a speed of 100 kmph or above. As of now, trains are not allowed to go beyond 30 kmph while changing tracks,” he said.
Conventional engine and coaches will not be used for this corridor. Chandrayan said, “State-of-the-art rakes will be used on this corridor that will have Electric Multiple Unit (EMU)-type distributed power system that assists faster acceleration and deceleration.”
Unlike conventional long distance trains, an EMU requires no separate locomotives as electric traction motors are installed in one of the carriages. The signalling system will also be different for the semi-high speed train. “These rakes will have cab signalling. This will help the motorman monitor the signal continuously on a screen installed in his cabin. He will not have to rely on the field signal to alter the train’s speed,” Chandrayan said.
It has also been suggested that the entire length of this corridor be fenced to prevent trespassing or stray cattle on the tracks.
Three routes have been proposed for the project, of which one will be selected.

ZIPPING AHEAD

One of the following will be chosen for Golden Rail Corridor:
ROUTE A: Delhi-Jaipur-Ajmer-Palanpur-Ahmedabad-Vadodara-Surat-Mumbai
ROUTE B: Delhi-Jaipur-Kota-Udaipur-Ahmedabad-Vadodara-Surat-Mumbai
ROUTE C: Delhi-Agra-Kota-Ratlam-Vadodara-Surat-Mumbai

TYPE OF TRAIN:

State-of-the-art rakes with cab signalling system No major changes in track design No need to acquire land as the train will run on existing tracks Estimated cost:
5,000 crore

Ahmedabad-Mumbai-Pune bullet train will cost Rs 56,000 cr
TNN (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Ahmedabad-Mumbai-Pune-bullet-train-will-cost-Rs-56000-cr/articleshow/9278371.cms)| Jul 19, 2011, 03.41am IST
AHMEDABAD: To get a bullet train zooming on the Ahmedabad-Mumbai-Pune route will cost Rs 56,000 crore for the 634 km distance.

The project report submitted to the railway board says that of the Rs 56,000 crore, close to Rs 50,000 crore will be for laying tracks and other infrastructure. The train, which according to reports is capable of running at speeds up to 350 km per hour, aims to reduce travel time between Ahmedabad-Mumbai-Pune to less than three hours.

Officials in the western division said that once the detailed project report is cleared, fund sharing will also be worked out between Maharashtra and Gujarat governments.

Officials said the pre-feasibility study by a French rail transport company stated that travel time will be around two hours between Ahmedabad-Mumbai without any stops. The same from Mumbai to Pune is estimated to be around 40 minutes.

The pre-feasibility study has stated that around 26.6 million passengers would travel by bullet train every year by 2021. Officials said that the railways have already made it clear that the project model would be a public-private-partnership.

However, the single bone of contention between the two states will be sharing of funds for the Mumbai-Pune corridor. Gujarat government wanted the bullet between Ahmedabad-Mumbai only, while Maharashtra wants to add Pune to the line. Gujarat did not concur as there were not many travelers between Ahmedabad and Pune.

True:) A huge population of BLR comprises of Malayalee Techies working in BLR. This holds same in case of Chennai too. Most of them travel to Kerala once in a week or two. Once HSR becomes reality, perhaps frequent travel is possible.

This is important, because in long run, floating population helps to reduce city congestion. BLR is literarily reeling under huge population. If people settled in places like Coimbatore/Kochi and travel only for work, surely the pressure and cost on BLR will reduce. It will also redistribute uncontrolled growth and many other urban issues.

Kerala to some extent achieved this, because of better intra-state transportation, helping people to distribute within the state.

Enough about uniqueness of kerala, we agree no other place in world can be compared with it. Anyday bangalore-hyd, hyd-pune and bangalore-pune make more sense.

Another advantage is pune will be connected to mumbai and ahmedabad and delhi by the time.. So it will make a network of high speed rail :cheers:

Mumbai to Delhi in 7 hours?
Indian Railways’ Project Could Reduce Travel Time By Half

Manthan K Mehta TNN

It has also been suggested that the entire length of this corridor be fenced to prevent trespassing or stray cattle on the tracks.

A high-speed train runs above 250 km/hour, for which separate infrastructure, including the tracks, is required. For this, land acquisition is necessary. “These semi-high speed trains will run on existing tracks, so land need not be acquired. No major changes need to be made in the existing track design. The loop design (at points and crossings), however, will have to be modified to ensure that the train is able to change the track at a speed of 100 kmph or above. As of now, trains are not allowed to go beyond 30 kmph while changing tracks,” he said.

ZIPPING AHEAD

One of the following will be chosen for Golden Rail Corridor:
ROUTE A: Delhi-Jaipur-Ajmer-Palanpur-Ahmedabad-Vadodara-Surat-Mumbai
ROUTE B: Delhi-Jaipur-Kota-Udaipur-Ahmedabad-Vadodara-Surat-Mumbai
ROUTE C: Delhi-Agra-Kota-Ratlam-Vadodara-Surat-Mumbai

TYPE OF TRAIN:

State-of-the-art rakes with cab signalling system No major changes in track design No need to acquire land as the train will run on existing tracks Estimated cost:
5,000 crore

Ahmedabad-Mumbai-Pune bullet train will cost Rs 56,000 cr
TNN (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Ahmedabad-Mumbai-Pune-bullet-train-will-cost-Rs-56000-cr/articleshow/9278371.cms)| Jul 19, 2011, 03.41am IST
AHMEDABAD: To get a bullet train zooming on the Ahmedabad-Mumbai-Pune route will cost Rs 56,000 crore for the 634 km distance.

However, the single bone of contention between the two states will be sharing of funds for the Mumbai-Pune corridor. Gujarat government wanted the bullet between Ahmedabad-Mumbai only, while Maharashtra wants to add Pune to the line. Gujarat did not concur as there were not many travelers between Ahmedabad and Pune.

Delhi-Mumbai 5k crores but ahmedabad-mumbai-pune is 56k crore :nuts: More over delhi-mumbai already covers ahmedabad-mumbai.

As mentioned above the bottleneck is change of tracks, if that is fixed average time will improve a lot. Delhi-Mumbai if they reduce it to 10 hours then also fine as one day working time will be saved making it overnight journey :cheers:

ROUTE C: Delhi-Agra-Kota-Ratlam-Vadodara-Surat-Mumbai


it should be Mathura instead of Agra. these journos :bash:

Ahmedabad-Mumbai-Pune bullet train will cost Rs 56,000 cr
TNN (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Ahmedabad-Mumbai-Pune-bullet-train-will-cost-Rs-56000-cr/articleshow/9278371.cms)| Jul 19, 2011, 03.41am IST
AHMEDABAD: To get a bullet train zooming on the Ahmedabad-Mumbai-Pune route will cost Rs 56,000 crore for the 634 km distance.

The project report submitted to the railway board says that of the Rs 56,000 crore, close to Rs 50,000 crore will be for laying tracks and other infrastructure. The train, which according to reports is capable of running at speeds up to 350 km per hour, aims to reduce travel time between Ahmedabad-Mumbai-Pune to less than three hours.

Officials in the western division said that once the detailed project report is cleared, fund sharing will also be worked out between Maharashtra and Gujarat governments.

Officials said the pre-feasibility study by a French rail transport company stated that travel time will be around two hours between Ahmedabad-Mumbai without any stops. The same from Mumbai to Pune is estimated to be around 40 minutes.

The pre-feasibility study has stated that around 26.6 million passengers would travel by bullet train every year by 2021. Officials said that the railways have already made it clear that the project model would be a public-private-partnership.

However, the single bone of contention between the two states will be sharing of funds for the Mumbai-Pune corridor. Gujarat government wanted the bullet between Ahmedabad-Mumbai only, while Maharashtra wants to add Pune to the line. Gujarat did not concur as there were not many travelers between Ahmedabad and Pune.

for a railways that has trains and stations that belong in a bombed out post apocalypse world there are much better ways to spend that kind of money than on just 1 high speed line. somebody slap some sense into these jokers

Shouldnt we change that? Why are we trying to connect Tier cities? to some other metro city? There is huge population of North Karnataka people in BLR dont they need proper train service ? Tell me one good train service for people of Belgaum/Raichur/Bijapur/Bidar/Bagalkot even other parts like Mangalore are not that well connected to BLR from rail or Air.
Do not mix up regular and HSR services. They will be treated differently although they are from the same department of the Govt.

Delhi-Mumbai 5k crores but ahmedabad-mumbai-pune is 56k crore :nuts: More over delhi-mumbai already covers ahmedabad-mumbai.

As mentioned above the bottleneck is change of tracks, if that is fixed average time will improve a lot. Delhi-Mumbai if they reduce it to 10 hours then also fine as one day working time will be saved making it overnight journey :cheers:
Read the posts carefully. Delhi- Mumbai is semi high speed (160-200 kmph) where trains can be run on same track without land acquisition.

Pune-Mumbai-Ahmadabad is HSR 350 kmph and will need land acquisition and different tracks etc.

Thus I feel as of now there is no need for HSR in India semi high speed of about 160 -200 kmph is enough and will be more feasible and more people will actually use it..

Shouldnt we change that? Why are we trying to connect Tier cities? to some other metro city? There is huge population of North Karnataka people in BLR dont they need proper train service ? Tell me one good train service for people of Belgaum/Raichur/Bijapur/Bidar/Bagalkot even other parts like Mangalore are not that well connected to BLR from rail or Air.

If such routes are going to make huge economic prospects, why not consider it.

See this Tier 1, Tier 2 cities etc does not mean much when coming to transportation options atleast. Kochi techincally is a Tier 2 city, yet it has India's 4th busiest airport and 9th domestic busiest airport. Train lines to Kerala are almost 160% saturated. More than 30 Lakh Domestic tourists and 10 lakh foreign tourists visit Kerala regularly. So naturally the demand of transport is almost on par with any Metro.

Don't connect mere urban population to all development aspects.

Enough about uniqueness of kerala, we agree no other place in world can be compared with it. Anyday bangalore-hyd, hyd-pune and bangalore-pune make more sense.

Who said, BLR-Pune or BLR-HYD is not sensible!!! But in that sense, why should we sacrifice a high traffic density sector like Kerala? Surely Kerala requires a connectivity and let feasible study proves the economic viability.

If such routes are going to make huge economic prospects, why not consider it.

See this Tier 1, Tier 2 cities etc does not mean much when coming to transportation options atleast. Kochi techincally is a Tier 2 city, yet it has India's 4th busiest airport and 9th domestic busiest airport. Train lines to Kerala are almost 160% saturated. More than 30 Lakh Domestic tourists and 10 lakh foreign tourists visit Kerala regularly. So naturally the demand of transport is almost on par with any Metro.

Don't connect mere urban population to all development aspects.


Who said, BLR-Pune or BLR-HYD is not sensible!!! But in that sense, why should we sacrifice a high traffic density sector like Kerala? Surely Kerala requires a connectivity and let feasible study proves the economic viability.

^^ Gulf air travel is not as far as europe or usa. Gulf is just as far as some domestic destination like delhi. So divide those international air passenger volume by 3 as eu/us are 3 times as far and would cost 3 times more. Come out of your illusion. Just like cochin has gulf traffic, chennai has singapore/Malaysia traffic which is again costs much less. So that international passenger traffic is deceiving.

BLR-HYD and HYD-PUNE are not just sensible, it is much more priority over bangalore-coimbator-cochin, so that should be implemented first, but due to political and executive lobby priorities are reversed.

^^ Gulf air travel is not as far as europe or usa. Gulf is just as far as some domestic destination like delhi. So divide those international air passenger volume by 3 as eu/us are 3 times as far and would cost 3 times more. Come out of your illusion. Just like cochin has gulf traffic, chennai has singapore/Malaysia traffic which is again costs much less. So that international passenger traffic is deceiving.

BLR-HYD and HYD-PUNE are not just sensible, it is much more priority over bangalore-coimbator-cochin, so that should be implemented first, but due to political and executive lobby priorities are reversed.

Its not any illusion dear. I was just quoting an example, that transportation has nothing to do with Tier ratings of a city. Brussels is a small city comparing to many other European cities. But its a transportation hub, because there are enough people to travel to and from Brussels....

How can you say there is no priority for Kerala or Kochi? Kerala has more than 80 lakhs floating population, which even includes Malayalee NRIs who travel a lot while during visits. In addition we have a huge tourist inflows/outflows, which also depends on transport.

Tourists/NRIs etc donot include in any city's population. Likewise people from other parts of Kerala will reach Kochi, if they want to make a fast travel to BLR or Chennai.

Hence it has enough patronage on prima facia. And extact details will come out once feasible study comes out. Kerala's route to BLR has nothing to do with its route with Pune. Its different game all together....

You seems to be too prejudiced... I have nothing to say in such a case. Let feasible study happens and facts become more clear!!!

lets not do high speed rail

lets keep intra city rail travel at 150-180km per hour average speed.


On the same upgraded tracks.



Which will also keep ticket prices down. Otherwise you will have ghost trains which most not able to afford them.

Enough about uniqueness of kerala, we agree no other place in world can be compared with it. Anyday bangalore-hyd, hyd-pune and bangalore-pune make more sense.

Another advantage is pune will be connected to mumbai and ahmedabad and delhi by the time.. So it will make a network of high speed rail :cheers:





Delhi-Mumbai 5k crores but ahmedabad-mumbai-pune is 56k crore :nuts: More over delhi-mumbai already covers ahmedabad-mumbai.

As mentioned above the bottleneck is change of tracks, if that is fixed average time will improve a lot. Delhi-Mumbai if they reduce it to 10 hours then also fine as one day working time will be saved making it overnight journey :cheers:


HSRL is needed in the eastern region, particularly between Delhi-Kolkata to accelarate development there.

^^ HSR won't be a charity like the Indian Railways. So, there is no way it will be done in poorest region of the country - eastern India...at least not right now.

High speed rail discussions in India are just time pass!

Nothing going to be in reality even by 2050

Bangalore-Coimbatore straight alignment is next to impossible! even british dropped the idea of connecting Chamrajnagar with Erode which has to pass through sathy/kollegal/eastern ghats steep mountains.

Since independence, IR is not able even to move a inch in connecting Coimbatore/Mettupalayam/Sathy with Mysore/Chamrajnagar/Bengaluru through thick eastern ghats that too with conventional super slow trains/tracks of IR!!

Dreaming about bullet train on that alignment is a big laughing stock!

lets not do high speed rail

lets keep intra city rail travel at 150-180km per hour average speed.

On the same upgraded tracks.

Which will also keep ticket prices down. Otherwise you will have ghost trains which most not able to afford them.

Yes that is very sensible. And that is what is proposed in last budget as "golden rail corridor" by didi. This costs very less comparatively that is just 5600 crores for delhi mumbai :cheers: No need to change tracks, but just loops where trains change tracks, which will increase speed limit in such places from 30 kmph to 100 kmph, which costs much less.

If anybody still wants to travel much faster they can fly :)

Mumbai to Delhi in just 7 hours?

If all goes as planned, your train travel time between the national and the commercial capitals of India could soon come down by at least half. According to railway officials, the infrastructure for the Golden Rail Corridor, which will have trains running at semihigh speed (160-200 kmph) between New Delhi and Mumbai , is likely to cost around Rs 5,000 crore. The cost, they say, is relatively low as the railways will not have to acquire land for the project.

Once the project takes off, the New Delhi-Mumbai travel time will be reduced to six to seven hours. At present, Rajdhani Express , the fastest train on the Indian railway , runs at 120-130 kmph and takes at least 16 hours to cover a distance of 1,400 km between the two cities.

Sharat Chandrayan, chief public relations officer, WR, said, "A delegation from the Japanese government that visited India last week is satisfied as far as the commercial viability of the project is concerned. Another team will soon visit the country to study the technical aspects of the project."

A high-speed train runs above 250 km/hour, for which separate infrastructure , including the tracks, is required. For this, land acquisition is necessary. "These semi-high speed trains will run on existing tracks, so land need not be acquired . No major changes need to be made in the existing track design. The loop design (at points and crossings ), however, will have to be modified to ensure that the train is able to change the track at a speed of 100 kmph or above. As of now, trains are not allowed to go beyond 30 kmph while changing tracks," he said.

Conventional engine and coaches will not be used for this corridor. Chandrayan said, "State-of-the-art rakes will be used on this corridor that will have Electric Multiple Unit (EMU)-type distributed power system that assists faster acceleration and deceleration."

Unlike conventional long distance trains, an EMU requires no separate locomotives as electric traction motors are installed in one of the carriages. The signalling system will also be different for the semi-high speed train.

SOURCE (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/railways/mumbai-to-delhi-in-just-7-hours/articleshow/9306591.cms)

Mumbai to Delhi in just 7 hours?



SOURCE (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/railways/mumbai-to-delhi-in-just-7-hours/articleshow/9306591.cms)

I dont see this happening. I am not trying to be a pessimist here, but what about the slower trains that need to run on the same track? If a train is running at full speed (200kmph), it covers about 33km in 10 minutes. Does that mean all other trains for the next 33kmph will come to a stop, so the fast train can pass through? What happens to gated intersections? Indians love to cross those until the last second. At 200kmph, that train will plow through hordes of idiots that cross in front of the train. I dont know, there are lots of things to consider. Even though its costs more to build a new separate high speed line, I think its much safer. We all know the safety track record of IR.

Anyway, a system is only as fast as its slowest component. A goods train travelling at 30kmph will take weeks to reach its destination, if its stopped every few miles, so faster trains can pass.

Mumbai to Delhi in just 7 hours?



SOURCE (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/railways/mumbai-to-delhi-in-just-7-hours/articleshow/9306591.cms)

Great!! Another "Could soon happen.." and "planning to..." project!! If I had a penny for every report that came out on these planned projects - I'd be a millionaire!!! Feels like every politico or beauracrat just wants to be in the limelight by using the now highly abused High Speed Rail proposal announcements every 10-15 days!!!

High speed rail discussions in India are just time pass! Nothing going to be in reality even by 2050

Bangalore-Coimbatore straight alignment is next to impossible! even british dropped the idea of connecting Chamrajnagar with Erode which has to pass through sathy/kollegal/eastern ghats steep mountains. Since independence, IR is not able even to move a inch in connecting Coimbatore/Mettupalayam/Sathy with Mysore/Chamrajnagar/Bengaluru through thick eastern ghats that too with conventional super slow trains/tracks of IR!!

Dreaming about bullet train on that alignment is a big laughing stock!

True that - it is indeed difficult to construct a high-speed link through those mountains. I think even Mumbai-Pune will face the same barriers in terms of terrain. They should think of the network in phases. Start with alignments that don't face as much physical barriers and are viable, and then tackle the tougher routes, gradually including more cities.

A sample approach: http://bit.ly/india-high-speed-rail

^^ HSR won't be a charity like the Indian Railways. So, there is no way it will be done in poorest region of the country - eastern India...at least not right now.

There is no doubt that barring the routes with high returns (DEL-AMD-BOM, CHE-BLR-HYD) high-speed rail will make losses for a long time before being profitable. So in some ways it will be a public service initiative or "charity". But even if you bring in economics, I think the Delhi-Kolkata route will connect among the most populated areas in the country and target the major cities, so it will still be economically feasible.

I dont see this happening. I am not trying to be a pessimist here, but what about the slower trains that need to run on the same track? If a train is running at full speed (200kmph), it covers about 33km in 10 minutes. Does that mean all other trains for the next 33kmph will come to a stop, so the fast train can pass through? What happens to gated intersections? Indians love to cross those until the last second. At 200kmph, that train will plow through hordes of idiots that cross in front of the train. I dont know, there are lots of things to consider. Even though its costs more to build a new separate high speed line, I think its much safer. We all know the safety track record of IR.

I think the article clearly states that separate tracks will be used, so there is no question of any train "waiting". Also, high-speed tracks are fenced along the route so that people and cattle crossing doesn't happen, and obviously there will be no gated intersections or 'phataks'

I dont see this happening. I am not trying to be a pessimist here, but what about the slower trains that need to run on the same track? If a train is running at full speed (200kmph), it covers about 33km in 10 minutes. Does that mean all other trains for the next 33kmph will come to a stop, so the fast train can pass through? What happens to gated intersections? Indians love to cross those until the last second. At 200kmph, that train will plow through hordes of idiots that cross in front of the train. I dont know, there are lots of things to consider. Even though its costs more to build a new separate high speed line, I think its much safer. We all know the safety track record of IR.

Anyway, a system is only as fast as its slowest component. A goods train travelling at 30kmph will take weeks to reach its destination, if its stopped every few miles, so faster trains can pass.

Priority train will take 7 hours. Laying separate track is not worth the capital investment. I liked this approach fixing bottlenecks. This costs just 5k crore if state govt shares it is very realistic.

Priority train will take 7 hours. Laying separate track is not worth the capital investment. I liked this approach fixing bottlenecks. This costs just 5k crore if state govt shares it is very realistic.

This approach will work and will keep us good for the next 5-8 years, but when you are looking at an investment from the POV of 50-100 years, you need to have this kind of project and the capital investment is justified. This is really "long-term" in the true sense of the word. 5 years down the line the general opinion will be that 150-180 km/h is not fast enough and we will be aiming at 200-250kmph

One way is to construct separate flyovers at stations where the HSR is not going to stop so that aam janta can cross over tracks as usual but will not slow down the HSR. What say?

One way is to construct separate flyovers at stations where the HSR is not going to stop so that aam janta can cross over tracks as usual but will not slow down the HSR. What say?

Trains dont slow down for sake of people crossing - instead foot overbridges can be constructed. But the train slows down to 30kmph where it has to change tracks.

But how about making arrangement so that priority train (say duronto) need not change track at all from start till destination? :cheers:

HSRL is needed in the eastern region, particularly between Delhi-Kolkata to accelarate development there.

This is the joke of the decade.. And i wont explain even if you ask me why.

HSR makes no sense for India right now. This is like a middle-class guy buying a BMW like his newly rich neighbor to mask his incompetency.

It may be less commercially viable perhaps than Delhi-Mumbai. On that point, I would agree with you.

It would bomb. People from Kolkata prefer travelling by Rajdhani than by air. Why would they pay as much as air fare and still drag along the tracks?

And trade in Kolkata hasnt yet evolved to the state where time is money, so businessmen couldn't bother less..

Trains dont slow down for sake of people crossing - instead foot overbridges can be constructed. But the train slows down to 30kmph where it has to change tracks.

But how about making arrangement so that priority train (say duronto) need not change track at all from start till destination? :cheers:

You are correct on this point. Let us take Didi;s fav Duranth exp!! It takes more or less same time of ordinary train in many routes. It is because though it is non-stop, it has to slow down to 10KMPH or 15KMPH in the bigger stations.. for example.. Chennai-Coimbatore duranth exp has to crawl at the speed of 15KMPH at Arrakonam, Katpadi, Jolarpettai, Salem and Erode... which just saves only 20-30min in this non-stop express compared to other train and we call that Duranth as high speed train. :lol: This is just a small example! Most of the Duranth express have same close call to existing train running trains.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

NHAI can be example! Earlier our national highway average speed might be around 45-50KMPH, now it is around 80KMPH after 4-laning of important highways. They didn't go straigh way for highspeed expressway! existing congestion on national highways was relaxed with increasing lanes, flyovers etc.,

I don't know whether broad gauge of Indian standard can have speed of 200-250KMPH for operation! If it can be achieved, like China first we need to upgrade the existing line to high speed. This will be economically viable to India...

1. Replacing all level crossing with Foot over bridge, flyovers, subways etc.,
2. Fencing the lines
3. Automatic doors for trains
4. Special PF for high speed trains in important stations were highspeed trains stops
5. Quadrapling of these high speed lines (2 for conventional and 2 for high speed trains... the same 2 can be used for freight in nights on intercity routes)

Even 150KMPH train will challenge the air in sectors like Chennai-Bengaluru, Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Chennai-Coimbatore/Madurai, Delhi-Jaipur, Delhi-Lucknow, Delhi-Chandigar/Amritsar etc.,

But even this upgrading the lines to highspeed will be 100years project for Indian railways! Yet we keep dreaming on high speed rail. If anyone have dream to travel in highspeed trains... don't wait for IR... please go to Europe, Japan or china to fullfill your dreams because we don't know whether in our lifetime we can see highspeed trains in India.

Lets hope high speed trains run in India within this decade.:)

You are correct on this point. Let us take Didi;s fav Duranth exp!! It takes more or less same time of ordinary train in many routes. It is because though it is non-stop, it has to slow down to 10KMPH or 15KMPH in the bigger stations.. for example.. Chennai-Coimbatore duranth exp has to crawl at the speed of 15KMPH at Arrakonam, Katpadi, Jolarpettai, Salem and Erode... which just saves only 20-30min in this non-stop express compared to other train and we call that Duranth as high speed train. :lol: This is just a small example! Most of the Duranth express have same close call to existing train running trains.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

NHAI can be example! Earlier our national highway average speed might be around 45-50KMPH, now it is around 80KMPH after 4-laning of important highways. They didn't go straigh way for highspeed expressway! existing congestion on national highways was relaxed with increasing lanes, flyovers etc.,

I don't know whether broad gauge of Indian standard can have speed of 200-250KMPH for operation! If it can be achieved, like China first we need to upgrade the existing line to high speed. This will be economically viable to India...

1. Replacing all level crossing with Foot over bridge, flyovers, subways etc.,
2. Fencing the lines
3. Automatic doors for trains
4. Special PF for high speed trains in important stations were highspeed trains stops
5. Quadrapling of these high speed lines (2 for conventional and 2 for high speed trains... the same 2 can be used for freight in nights on intercity routes)

Even 150KMPH train will challenge the air in sectors like Chennai-Bengaluru, Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Chennai-Coimbatore/Madurai, Delhi-Jaipur, Delhi-Lucknow, Delhi-Chandigar/Amritsar etc.,

But even this upgrading the lines to highspeed will be 100years project for Indian railways! Yet we keep dreaming on high speed rail. If anyone have dream to travel in highspeed trains... don't wait for IR... please go to Europe, Japan or china to fullfill your dreams because we don't know whether in our lifetime we can see highspeed trains in India.

Duranto is the worst thing that can happen to IR connect all cities to Kolkota might be the only motive

It would bomb. People from Kolkata prefer travelling by Rajdhani than by air. Why would they pay as much as air fare and still drag along the tracks?

And trade in Kolkata hasnt yet evolved to the state where time is money, so businessmen couldn't bother less..

True, High speed rail can only compete for medium distances say 150 to 450 km (I am talking of high speed as per intl standards) and that too in the beginning mostly for higher end business passengers (as companies want to save time and are ready to spend the extra buck for a one day trip). This way they can compete with air travel (which require time for check in and security) and can take you right into the heart of the city as most new airports have to be on the outskirts. For longer distances, they won't save time/money as compared to air travel.

True, High speed rail can only compete for medium distances say 150 to 450 km (I am talking of high speed as per intl standards) and that too in the beginning mostly for higher end business passengers (as companies want to save time and are ready to spend the extra buck for a one day trip). This way they can compete with air travel (which require time for check in and security) and can take you right into the heart of the city as most new airports have to be on the outskirts. For longer distances, they won't save time/money as compared to air travel.

But overnight train means no business hours lost. So mumbai delhi train is very much alternative to air travel if it is less than 10 hours.

You even get to save hotel stay expenses :lol:

@gentem, i think high end business travelers would prefer to fly for 2 hours than take a sleeper train, in terms of comfort they would have no problem on spending for a hotel.

if you look internationally, most business travelers will take high speed rail or air travel as opposed to overnight trains.

@gentem, i think high end business travelers would prefer to fly for 2 hours than take a sleeper train, in terms of comfort they would have no problem on spending for a hotel.

if you look internationally, most business travelers will take high speed rail or air travel as opposed to overnight trains.

High end people will always fly. High speed train is for higher middle class.

Bullet train accident in china minimum 48 dead. Conflicting death toll numbers

I have seen many businessmen travel to Bangalore by the 6.00 AM Shatabdi from Chennai, finish their business and board the same train at 4.20 PM for the return trip. They park their cars at Chennai Central in the morning and pick them up on the way back. One such person was sitting next to me on a trip and I got talking to him. According to him it was cheaper and more convenient than air travel, if one took in to account the check-in and check-out times, as well as the distance from airport to the city at both ends. He said there were many like him.

Corporate travellers, in contrast, always prefer to fly. But there is a rule in my company (also in some others I know of) which says one should not fly to a destination that is reachable by overnight train, unless there are mitigating circumstances.

^^^

Chennai - Bangaloe surely has a strong business case for HSR, the most favourable one out of other proposed routes. also remember chennai airport may fall on this route, allowing people to transfer in cae they wanna take international/domestic flights which bangalore airport may not have.

With such a population density in so small country, high speed rail suits India more than anywhere else in the world. Just like Japan. Flights will be doomed in a single year if we have well connected HSRl links. Which is better environmentally and economically for the country.
It's ridiculous to see how some people perceive infrastructure as money sucking machines, where as in reality the generate 1000s of times wealth in their lifetime and change the country's living standard. High speed rail is one such instrument.
This blood sucking PM could never understand this. Instead our govt spends 60kcrores on each single welfare scheme, which are counter productive and never reach the ultra poor anyway.

Duranto is the worst thing that can happen to IR connect all cities to Kolkota might be the only motive

Do some research before posting comments. Durontos connect more cities to Delhi and Mumbai than Kolkata.

100...99....98..97....96....

With such a population density in so small country, high speed rail suits India more than anywhere else in the world. Just like Japan. Flights will be doomed in a single year if we have well connected HSRl links. Which is better environmentally and economically for the country.
It's ridiculous to see how some people perceive infrastructure as money sucking machines, where as in reality the generate 1000s of times wealth in their lifetime and change the country's living standard. High speed rail is one such instrument.
This blood sucking PM could never understand this. Instead our govt spends 60kcrores on each single welfare scheme, which are counter productive and never reach the ultra poor anyway.

No point competing with flight. China is paying heavy cost for that. We need to cater to segment with lil less average speed.

china is facing loss because of foolishness...the chinese are building railway lines which are less frequently used..but the lines which IR have identified are pretty profitable...with a newly built corridor we can run at 300kmph...on upgraded 200kmph...

Come on!! the chinese r building ahead of time... These rail lines would eventually become growth corridors! Yes, in the short term, there would be losses.. But, think in the longer term!!

With such a population density in so small country, high speed rail suits India more than anywhere else in the world.

small country? did i miss the memo?

china is facing loss because of foolishness...the chinese are building railway lines which are less frequently used..but the lines which IR have identified are pretty profitable...with a newly built corridor we can run at 300kmph...on upgraded 200kmph...

ROFL :lol::lol::lol: Foolishness..? sounds like sour grapes to me. ROFL ROFL ROFL
The chinese know how to think long term when it comes infrastructure. Thats why they have gotten so ahead in such short time.

95..94..93..92...

Railways to introduce high-speed corridors

Thanjavur (TN): The Indian Railways would soon introduce high-speed passenger corridors in three sectors in South India, with trains running at 150 km per hour and dedicated freight corridors in six sectors, Minister of State for Railways J H Muniyappa said in Thanjavur on Friday.

"Survey work has started for these lines between Chennai-Bangalore, Chennai-Coimbatore and Coimbatore-Ernakulam," he told reporters at Thanjavur Railway station.

Dedicated Freight Corridors would also be introduced in the Delhi-Mumbai, Delhi-Kolkata, Kolkata-Chennai, Chennai-Mumbai, Chennai-Goa and Delhi-Chennai sectors, Muniyappa said.

He said survey work in two places to implement the freight corridor was in progress and work on other sectors would be taken up soon.

He said Southern Railway had registered a record growth of 4.26 per cent for the current year earning Rs 4789.43 crore, compared to the last year's Rs 4,593.95 crore.

Muniyappa expressed happiness over considerable reduction in ticketless travel, especially in the South and said revenue earned from fines had gone up to Rs 24 crore, compared to Rs 21 crore last year.

The minister earlier inspected the Thanjavur Railway Station and ongoing work for construction of two platforms.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/railways-to-introduce-highspeed-corridors/171409-3.html

china is facing loss because of foolishness...the chinese are building railway lines which are less frequently used..but the lines which IR have identified are pretty profitable...with a newly built corridor we can run at 300kmph...on upgraded 200kmph...

Do you really believe that Beijing - Shanghai is a "less frequently used" corridor? Time to go back and refresh ones knowledge of geography I suppose ;)

china is facing loss because of foolishness...the chinese are building railway lines which are less frequently used..but the lines which IR have identified are pretty profitable...with a newly built corridor we can run at 300kmph...on upgraded 200kmph...

:lol: less frequently used? for record purpose!

1. Beijing - Shanghai - 1318KM, daily ridership - 165,000 in 300KMPH new line approx 5hrs travel
2. Guangzhou-Wuhan - 968KM, daily ridership - 56,000 in >300KMPH new line, approx 3hrs travel

------------------------------------------------------------------------

still old lines are in operation for slow trains and for people who want cheap travel.

Mumbai-Surat-Vadodara-Ahmedabad-Jaipur-Delhi have all potential like Beijing-Shanghai line!!

dude beijing shanghai are not the only corridors...there are several lines which are less used....one line from shangzhou was built to handle 37 million passengers a year..but only 1.98 million passengers are using it

dude beijing shanghai are not the only corridors...there are several lines which are less used....one line from shangzhou was built to handle 37 million passengers a year..but only 1.98 million passengers are using it

Think future dude.. Long term :doh: After 100 years from now 39 million passengers an year maybe using the same line :lol: how can china go wrong? :bash:

Think future dude.. Long term :doh: After 100 years from now 39 million passengers an year maybe using the same line :lol: how can china go wrong? :bash:

what 100 years man...u kidding ah...think about present...100 years beyond imagination...i agree china is growing rapidly...that doesnt mean china can never go wrong...china's corruption index is just 3.5....which is alsmost same as ours...but chinese wont spare corrupt people..we spare them..thats the only difference between us and china

Remember that during the recent Chinese train crash, the media were handed out a press release and told to report only what it contained, and nothing else. So nobody will ever know the real death toll.

So before going overboard with criticism, ponder whether Chinese citizens have the freedom to make similar posts about their Railways. And live to tell the tale if they do. Learn to count your blessings - we have something the Chinese will never have for another century - if at all.

IE (http://www.indianexpress.com/story-print/822902/)
Delhi to Amritsar in 90 mins: Bullet trains idea on track

New Delhi : Delhi to Patna in three hours and Delhi to Amritsar in 1.5 hours by train. This may soon become a reality, as the Indian Railways is all set to have an independent board that will look into the operation of only high speed trains in select corridors.
The bullet trains will cover 300 km in an hour and their fare could be equivalent to that of airlines. Six corridors have been selected for the project — Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar (450 km), Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad (650 km), Hyderabad-Dornakal-Vijayawada-Chennai (664 km), Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam (649 km), Howrah-Haldia (135 km), Delhi-Agra-Lucknow-Varanasi-Patna (991 km). Twelve state governments and one UT have given their approval to share the cost of consultancy on a 50:50 basis. On Tuesday, Railways officials discussed a feasibility plan regarding the Howrah-Haldia high speed rail corridor.

The pre-feasibility report of two such high speed corridor projects was submitted to the ministry recently. According to the proposal, one can reach Patna from Delhi in a little more than three hours and from Delhi to Amritsar in 1.5 hours.

The formation of the National High Speed Railway Authority (NHSRA) was approved after it was announced during the Rail Budget earlier this year by the then minister Mamata Banerjee. The NHSRA will be an autonomous body with its administrative control under the Ministry of Railways, officials said. The formation of NHSRA seems to have been fast-tracked after Dinesh Trivedi took over as the Railways Minister. This is one of the ‘pet projects’ of his mentor and West Bengal Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee. A memorandum was finalised by the Railway Board on this and a note sent to Cabinet for approval a few days back.

The Howrah-Haldia high speed rail corridor project is said to be close to Banerjee. The proposed high speed train will cut the travel time to half-an-hour. Last week, UK-based Mott Macdonald, which was roped in to do the pre-feasibility study had submitted its interim report .

“Once the board is constituted, the high speed corridor will be fast-tracked and things will move in the right direction. These trains will drastically cut down travel time and can compete with airline sector,” said a senior official.

china is facing loss because of foolishness...the chinese are building railway lines which are less frequently used..but the lines which IR have identified are pretty profitable...with a newly built corridor we can run at 300kmph...on upgraded 200kmph...

Isn't it so typical of fool like this guy. Mouthing off. full of hot air but nothing really to show for it.. hahaha :lol::lol:

Isn't it so typical of fool like this guy. Mouthing off. full of hot air but nothing really to show for it.. hahaha :lol::lol:

Dude u analyze about high speed rail before speaking...spanish and french companies have given green signals to the corridors identified by IR...regarding chinese HSR u better go through it...

China's $34 billion high-speed rail network is up for its first big test on Thursday as a high-speed train from Beijing is scheduled to glide into Shanghai's Hongqiao railway station for its inaugural run. The event, coinciding with the 90th anniversary of the Chinese Communist party, is meant to showcase China's technological prowess.

Going by the first public test run for journalists Monday, China is vocally proud of its futuristic transport system that slashes the journey time between its two most important cities in half and delivers airline-like comfort.

The Ministry of Railways' chief engineer He Hua Wu, told reporters minutes before train G1 pulled out of Beijing that the train-link was the "pride of China and Chinese people." He said the Harmony Express, which is named after Chinese President Hu Jintao's harmonious society slogan, is a gift to the ruling Communist Party.

The high-speed train between China's financial hub Shanghai and the capital Beijing travels at 300 kilometers per hour, radically cutting the travel time between the two cities and covering the roughly 1,300 kilometers in less than five hours.

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While the facts certainly sound enticing, the project has become the focus of a national debate.

Here's a look at some of the pros and cons.

The Pros:

-The train system will likely spread economic development farther west.

-It will slash travel time between Chinese cities.

-It will spur trade and ease the flow of people and ideas.

-The construction, commodities and tourism industries are all likely reap huge benefits.

The Cons:

-Officials have admitted nearly $30 million of funds for the line were embezzled or otherwise misused. The corruption has heightened safety fears over worries that shoddy construction materials were used in the project.

-Pricey tickets (starting at $50) will further polarize China's already hugely divided rich/poor gap.

-There is no guarantee that the expensive seats will sell and this could strain the national budget for years.

-Environmentalists are concerned about the impact of tearing up countryside for new rail tracks.

All told, the economic payoff of this massive project is still uncertain. Accounting professor Ding Yuan at China Europe International Business School in Shanghai tells the Wall Street Journal, "Physically, they are good assets. Financially, they are black holes."

In 2004, China's State Council, the country's highest governing body, approved a 12,000-kilometer (7,200 mile) high-speed rail system to weave together major Chinese cities by 2020. Leaders then revised that plan in 2008 to reach 16,000 kilometers. Local politicians saw a winner and proposed to build their own high-speed branch lines to the network to connect outlying cities.

The World Bank is financing $800 million in track equipment, arguing that trains traveling at speeds of at least 250 kilometers an hour (150 mph) provide a "competitive advantage" over airlines for trips of less than 750 kilometers (450 miles). China has an excess of big cities well within that distance from one another.

The project has been built using a mix of international rail technology that the Chinese have adapted for their use. China's ambitious construction plans in building the world's largest high-speed rail network have made them the world's leading experts in high-speed railway construction.

Here's a look at some photos of the new train:



A conductor stands in a new high-speed train before it departs from the Beijing-South railway station for Shanghai as part of an official trip for members of the media June 27, 2011. (REUTERS/David Gray)


A new high-speed train is pictured before it departs from the Beijing-South railway station for Shanghai as part of an official trip for members of the media. (REUTERS/David Gray)


A train attendant (L) helps a passenger to adjust her seat at the business class carriage on a CRH 380A bullet train travelling on the newly built high-speed railway between Shanghai and Beijing during a test ride departed from Shanghai June 16, 2011. (China Daily China Daily Information Corp - CDIC)


A train driver prepares to depart the Beijing-South railway station for Shanghai in a new high-speed train as part of an official trip for members of the media June 27, 2011. (REUTERS/David Gray)

Dear friends

High speed rail is extremely expensive and without state subsidy loss making even in countries like Germany and France with per capita income of $40,000.

What is more you need to acquire massive amounts of land to make dedicated HSR corridors.

A more cost effective alternative IMHO is the tilt train.These trains such as the Pendolino can travel at 250 kmph on EXISTING lines and research is on to make them trave at 300kmph by 2020.

This is optimal because dedicated HSR can't travel more than 300-320 kmph profitably as the wind resistance beyond this geometrically increases the electrical consumption of the train.at 350kmph a train consumes twice the electrical power than 300kmph.

intersting how china admits to embezzling, we need to start that here

^^ China admits only because the HSR project is in global limelight. Approx. 1/3rd of the allocated funds were embezzled. International critics have lamented the poor quality of material used in some patches. They're even saying that some of the material will be worn out in five years. If China doesn't admit to corruption now, it never will.

Frankly, India is spewing out too much truth to be digested by the society at the moment. Sometimes watching the news makes me sick, but when the dust settles India will be a much prettier country.

^^ ++1 to solve problems first we need to accept they exist. India, for all its faults is always ready to do that.

btw there was a big controversy in china whether HSR made economic sense at all, all the technocrats and economists thought they didn't but the politicians pushed through the project to highlight china's achievement to the world. I read in a recent article published from hong kong that the experts in fact recommended something like IR's dedicated freight tracks in stead of HSR.

I think the way HSR was introduced in china is @rse first way of doing it, a massively costly project should be sanctioned if it actually makes sense for the people and the economy, not because it looks good.

Interesting article about China's HSR:

Latest Black-Eye for China Railways Ministry: Dubious Statistics
Monday, June 27, 2011.

A casual glance at the latest ridership statistics from China’s Ministry of Railways suggests the newly launched Beijing-Shanghai high-speed rail line is doing well despite last month’s tragic collision on a different part of China’s high-speed rail network.

Make that very well.

Between its public launch on June 30 and the end of July, the crown-jewel of China’s high-speed rail system carried an average of 179 trains a day and transported a total of 5.26 million passengers, according to a statement posted on the ministry’s website (in Chinese). Those numbers, the statement said, mean the line ran at 107% of capacity.

Unlikely in the best of circumstances, that better-than-perfect ridership rate is even more difficult to believe after the July 23 accident, in which at least 40 were killed and more than 190 injured after one high-speed train rear-ended another near the city of Wenzhou. Accounts from passengers suggest China’s high-speed trains, many of which were struggling to fill seats before the accident, have been running half-empty in recent days.

The number was ridiculed online almost immediately after being released Monday, and even some state-run media took potshots at it Tuesday–yet another public relations black eye for a government body that has been awash in criticism for its opaque handling of the accident.

“A hundred and seven? Is this a rumor? Please stop spreading lies,” one user of the popular Sina Weibo microblogging service wrote under another user’s photo showing an empty high-speed rail car. “You mean the vacancy rate is 107% right?” wrote another under the same photo.

The better-than-perfect number appears not to be a lie, exactly, but rather a consequence of the Railways Ministry’s unorthodox approach to calculating ridership. The ministry counts one seat on a Chinese train as being at 200% capacity if two different people sit on it during different legs of the trip, Zhao Jian, a railway expert at Beijing Jiaotong University, told the state-run China Daily newspaper on Tuesday. He added that foreign railways typically figure capacity by the percentage of a trip the seat is occupied.

Amtrak, as well as most American airlines, calculate percentage capacity by dividing “passenger miles,” or the total length of the trip times the number of occupied seats, by “seat miles,” the length of the trip times the total number of seats. (See here for example.)

Monday’s statement didn’t offer a break-down of passenger miles, making it impossible to calculate ridership on the line using standard methodology. Calls to the ministry rang unanswered Tuesday.

Nevertheless, the availability of tickets on the Beijing-Shanghai line suggests trains are running far below capacity. Roughly three-quarters of the tickets for a Tuesday afternoon high-speed train from Shanghai to Beijing were still available as of 7:30 p.m. the previous evening, China Daily reported.

One foreign passenger who took an 8 a.m. train from Shanghai to Beijing on Tuesday said there were only two passengers, including himself, in the first-class cabin when the train departed, with another three getting on the train at Nanjing. “The other first class car seemed to have about the same — a handful of passengers,” he said.

Meanwhile, airlines that had given deep discounts on their flights between Shanghai and Beijing after the new rail line opened appear to be having little trouble filling seats, with one Chinese Eastern Airlines official telling China Daily that the carrier was close to matching sales records that it set on the route during last year’s Shanghai Expo.

A check of Chinese travel site eLong.com Tuesday evening showed tickets for the vast majority of Wednesday flights from Beijing to Shanghai selling at full price, with only a handful offered at relatively modest 10% to 20% discounts.

As noted in state media, some people have continued to ride the country’s high-speed trains despite the Wenzhou accident, in part because they remain cheaper than planes. Fewer, however, seem willing to cut the Railways Ministry slack on its math.

“Does that mean the Beijing-Shanghai line offers standing tickets?” quipped a commenter in Baidu’s Tieba discussion forum, referring to seat-less tickets available on the country’s slower trains. “Or is that girls sitting on boys’ laps?”

– Josh Chin.


Source (http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/08/02/latest-black-eye-for-china-railways-ministry-dubious-statistics/)

^^ At least they BUILT their trains to world class levels!
We need our high courts to tell our railways to pull up their act - even then - we have so many dozens of accidents that world wide news agencies dont even bother reporting them anymore.
Compare that to china's singular HSR accident and it grabbed news headlines worldwide!!

Sad that accidents and third world standards of our railways don't even command "respect" of news agencies when so many people die - just because IR is so rotten that these deaths and accidents are actually considered "normal" enough so as not to even warrant reporting!!!

^^ Yea smell in railway stations is retrograde. World has moved on. Safety and hygiene should be given priority, at least in second decade of 21st century

^^IR is a mess, but the reason why Chinese HSR got worldwide attention was because:

1) It used a 'civilized' signalling system. I dunno if that's the case in India. Crash means that there was some problem with the automated part of the signalling system, which should be rare. Something similar would be a crash of Delhi Metro. Believe me, that would grab international headlines.

2) China plans to sell its HSR to Europe and rest of the world. That fact was repeatedly mentioned in the BBC.

3)HSR are a symbol of chinese technological prowess. Western nations are very keen to grab any opportunity that denies the rise of China and gives them a chance to say 'I told you so.'

Though some part of it is relevant, this thread is becoming more of China HSR and its news :)

Thats because NOTHING is happening on the Indian HSR front. Its only proposals and more proposals - all we can do is discuss - this is not a project reporting thread - because we have none to report!!!

small country? did i miss the memo?

think he means like not gigantic like usa or russia or china

^^IR is a mess, but the reason why Chinese HSR got worldwide attention was because:

1) It used a 'civilized' signalling system. I dunno if that's the case in India. Crash means that there was some problem with the automated part of the signalling system, which should be rare. Something similar would be a crash of Delhi Metro. Believe me, that would grab international headlines.

2) China plans to sell its HSR to Europe and rest of the world. That fact was repeatedly mentioned in the BBC.

3)HSR are a symbol of chinese technological prowess. Western nations are very keen to grab any opportunity that denies the rise of China and gives them a chance to say 'I told you so.'


^^ Oh please "china plans to sell on one sunny day" :doh: Not just speed, what matters is if the innovation is economically feasible. We are better off with semi high speed, like mumbai-delhi 5k crore plan.

think he means like not gigantic like usa or russia or china

Russia china half the land is desert or cold desert. Not much population spread.

This is, as they say- old wine in a new bottle. I say what the hell, at least the bottle is new.

Haldia & Calcutta on high-speed rail radar

JAYANTA ROY CHOWDHURY

New Delhi, July 28: India’s first high-speed train, supposed to travel at 250-300km per hour, would run between Haldia and Calcutta, railway sources have said.

An interim study for the high-speed service has been submitted by a Spanish consortium to the government for the 135km Calcutta-Haldia stretch.

Officials said since the Haldia stretch was the shortest of the six proposed high-speed corridors for which the studies were being done, its report “came in the first and will probably take the least time to set up”.

The railway ministry is also readying a cabinet note to set up a National High Speed Authority that will monitor and implement the project.

Railway officials said the high-speed trains would cut down a six to seven-hour train journey by more than half. Haldia, which is a four-hour local train ride from Calcutta, would barely take an hour to reach then.

The fastest train in India now is the Shatabdi Express that has a maximum permissible speed of 140kmph.

The rail officials also said the high-speed trains had 7.7 times lower carbon emission compared to airlines and 4.5 times less than cars. Laying the tracks would take lesser land than what a government would require to make an expressway.

Last year, during her tenure as railway minister, Mamata Banerjee announced the plan for high-speed rail corridors in her budget speech. Apart from Haldia-Calcutta link, the other proposed routes were Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar, Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Hyderabad-Vijayawada-Chennai, Chennai-Bangalore-Ernakulam and Delhi-Agra-Varanasi-Patna.

The high-speed train service has got a push from the Prime Minister’s Office as well.

Neighbouring China has set up a high-speed rail network, with Shanghai’s Maglev train service running at a 430kmph and most of its other railway longer high speed network running at between 200-300 kmph.

Japan’s bullet trains run at the top speed of 300km per hour.

The US, Spain, France, Germany and Russia have high-speed rail networks too. running at speeds between 200 kms per hour to 570 kmph.

India will either have to import or buy designs for the high-speed locomotives and will also have to work on new stainless steel coaches using fire-retardant materials and which have electro-pneumatic brake systems, in order to introduce any high speed train project.

Officials said many in the railways preferred the trains to run at 200kmph-250 kmph in the beginning “as this is something new for us”, but the government may choose to run them at a higher speed — around 350 kmph — to demonstrate that India can bridge the technology gap as other Asian rivals have.

India is a major player in railway exports, selling railway consultancy, construction and railway engines and coach sets to Asian and African countries.

Separately, the Kerala government has approached the Delhi Metro Rail Corporation (DMRC) for a high-speed train project. The DMRC is carrying out surveys to connect Kasargode to Thiruvananthapuram.

Source (http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110729/jsp/nation/story_14304820.jsp)

How many trains run in that section? Every year Bengal gets some 20-30 (figuratively) trains. Thanks to the numerous railway ministers. It's already crowded to the hilt. Now a(n) HSR corridor? I think in a decade or so Howrah will be connected to every tier 1,2,3 cities/towns in India. And some parts of the country can just dream about one passenger train.....

bengal is getting revenge for being seriously neglected since the 80's. :D

20-30 is exaggeration, most of those announcements do not come to fruition. this particular route is a very good idea though, it makes economic sense and is small enough to serve as a pilot project.

This is, as they say- old wine in a new bottle. I say what the hell, at least the bottle is new.

Haldia & Calcutta on high-speed rail radar

JAYANTA ROY CHOWDHURY



Source (http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110729/jsp/nation/story_14304820.jsp)

I don't know whether we can it ambitious or Over-ambitious. But Kerala is strongly pushing for the HSR as North-South Corridor connecting Mangalore with Trivandrum, so that one can reach Mangalore from the capital within 5 hrs!!!

The cost is now estimated at Rs 77,000 crore, which is the real issue!!! But as we say, a dream fuels action and reality, I believe it can make it a reality!!!

bengal is getting revenge for being seriously neglected since the 80's. :D

20-30 is exaggeration, most of those announcements do not come to fruition. this particular route is a very good idea though, it makes economic sense and is small enough to serve as a pilot project.

Then I guess there should be railway minsters from every state (wishful thinking). So every other state can take "revenge" of being seriously neglected since independence. And with more than 4000 kms of railway tracks, I would hardly call WB as "seriously neglected". Think North-Eastern states. Should they call themselves "orphaned"?

hey I do not support MB or her party's policies, I would rather have a RM who represents India, not his/her home state.

that said, WB was neglected by IR for a long time and it just reflects the parochial nature of Indian politicians. MB just represents the other side of the same coin. the 000's km of tracks were mostly laid during british era and overall maintenance, availibility of trains etc was just pathetic.

Think North-Eastern states. Should they call themselves "orphaned"? undoubtedly ! the neglect meted out to those states is completely unforgivable.