Yes it's that time of year again! Now that the newly-created Greater Manchester Combined Authority is fully functioning, these local elections will have the added twist of not just determining who governs the councils, but who governs the county too.

Just a reminder that each council gets to elect one of its Councillors to the Combined Authority executive. The 10 members in turn elect a Chair and Vice-Chairs. The current Chair is Lord Peter Smith (Labour) of Wigan council.

THE COUNCILS

One third of each of the 10 councils are up for election on Thursday 5th May. With the government performing poorly in the polls, we might expect Labour to pick up a few gains here, potentially taking control of Bolton, Bury and Oldham, with LibDem-run Stockport likely to go into No Overall Control.

Here's the state of play at present:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/GreaterManchesterNumbered.png

1. CITY OF MANCHESTER (LABOUR)
Lab: 62, LibDem: 33, Con: 1, Total: 96 seats.

2. STOCKPORT (LIBERAL DEMOCRAT)
LibDem: 35, Lab: 13, Con: 9, Ind: 6, Total: 63

3. TAMESIDE (LABOUR)
Lab: 47, Con: 8, Ind: 2, Total: 57

4. OLDHAM (NO OVERALL CONTROL - LIBDEM-CONSERVATIVE COALITION)
LibDem: 27, Lab: 27, Con: 5, Ind: 1, Total: 60

5. ROCHDALE (NO OVERALL CONTROL - LABOUR MINORITY)
Lab: 22, LibDem: 18, Con: 12, Ind: 8, Total: 60

6. BURY (NO OVERALL CONTROL - CONSERVATIVE MINORITY)
Con: 23, Lab: 20, LibDem: 8, Total: 51

7. BOLTON (NO OVERALL CONTROL - LABOUR MINORITY)
Lab: 30, Con: 21, LibDem: 7, Ind: 1, Vacant: 1, Total: 60

8. WIGAN (LABOUR)
Lab: 51, Con: 7, LibDem: 3, Ind: 14, Total: 75

9. CITY OF SALFORD (LABOUR)
Lab: 39, Con: 13, LibDem: 5, Ind: 3, Total: 60

10. TRAFFORD (CONSERVATIVE)
Con: 36, Lab: 21, LibDem: 5, Vacant: 1, Total: 63

From what im hearing in Wigan it looks likely Conservatives will lose one and Independants lose two to Labour. There was also a by-election a month ago where Conservatives lost one to Labour.

Is it a safe assumption to say that the Lib Dems in the city are about to get a good kicking?

Where I live in Hulme the Greens have had a good presence over recent years, but they were squeezed out last time due to a strong Lib Dem showing which meant Labour took the seat, maybe a collapse in Lib Dem vote will see the Greens get a seat back on the council.

It was a shame when the Greens lost their Hulme seat, was there a change of candidate which may have also had influence?

Hulme and the City Centre wards should be easy/prime Green territory, yet they seem to fail to make any headway, wonder why?

Green support is one of those things where (in general) support increases from working class to middle class as income increases but there reaches a certain point where green support starts deteoriating again as income increases, the kind of level where people realise that they would be significantly financially better off not supporting green.

Link road - I'm not sure the Greens are trying for the city centre. Last May for the local elections I didn't get a leaflet from them (compared to numerous from the other 3 (I appreciate they are Green, but nothing!)) so I tried to find out about their candidate from their website - and they didn't have anything on him or anything about the Ward.


I was surprised they got as many votes as they did considering their lack of interest in asking anyone to vote for them in the city centre. Probably due to choosing targets wisely, but it means they aren't well placed this year when it is wide open (the former lib-dem incumbent is in the mix too).

I'll admit to being a non-active member of the Manchester Green Party, perhaps that's why! Other provincial cities seem much better organised, such as Sheffield, Norwich, Brighton, and their key to success (and gaining momentum) seems to be targetting central/inner wards.

You'd also think the 'pink' vote, of which there must be a element of electoral influence in Manchester, would vote Green too, given their success in London and Brighton, both of which are similar considered metrosexualpolitain areas.

I've voted Green consistently for the past few years, because I feel that the main parties offer nothing different to each other. Although I was very tempted to vote Conservative at the last general election. Prior to voting Green, I voted (and joined) the LibDems, being pro-European, but became disillusioned with them after a spat with Andrew Stunnell and how they awfully handled Charles Kennedy, from which they never recovered, IMO.

Three parties I'd NEVER vote for: Labour, BNP or UKIP.

Just out of interest, how can a Green supporter be seriously tempted to vote Conservative?

The Greens are a left-wing socialist party, where as the Conservative party, well....aren't. There's an almighty ideological difference between the two and the country would be hugely different depending on which one was in government. So how do you square that almighty circle?

Perhaps its just like those who voted Labour because they were so desperate to get rid of the Tories back in 1997? I just will never ever vote Labour, despite being a Trade Unionist.

All of the main parties claim to have pro-environment policies, but I fail to see the reality. I guess that Tories spin on being green might have got to me.

I have worked and lived in areas that vote Labour. I see failure, filth, laziness and selfishness. Whereas when I have lived in those areas that vote Conservative (Derbyshire Dales, and now Milton Keynes) you have the opposite - prosperous, clean, work ethic, etc.

Maybe that is urbanity? All I know is that Manchester (and other GM boroughs) need to break free from Labour's grip.

Whatever happened to the Community Action Party? I was a bit dubious of them at first, thought they were connected or bankrolled by Peel, they seem to have gone a bit quiet?

Maybe Manchester needs more Independents, free of any party politics, and work for the city and its people, rather than their party?

I'd vote Green if they ran in Salford. Not voting otherwise. Salford Labour can get fucked.

Perhaps its just like those who voted Labour because they were so desperate to get rid of the Tories back in 1997? I just will never ever vote Labour, despite being a Trade Unionist.

All of the main parties claim to have pro-environment policies, but I fail to see the reality. I guess that Tories spin on being green might have got to me.

I have worked and lived in areas that vote Labour. I see failure, filth, laziness and selfishness. Whereas when I have lived in those areas that vote Conservative (Derbyshire Dales, and now Milton Keynes) you have the opposite - prosperous, clean, work ethic, etc.

Maybe that is urbanity? All I know is that Manchester (and other GM boroughs) need to break free from Labour's grip.

Whatever happened to the Community Action Party? I was a bit dubious of them at first, thought they were connected or bankrolled by Peel, they seem to have gone a bit quiet?

Maybe Manchester needs more Independents, free of any party politics, and work for the city and its people, rather than their party?

CAP are still going in theory (some councillors) but their sucess fell apart when they actually had to have policies on more than one issue, they also pissed about not turning up to council meetings and abused their influence in office. They then set upon themselves when they started failing.

I have worked and lived in areas that vote Labour. I see failure, filth, laziness and selfishness. Whereas when I have lived in those areas that vote Conservative (Derbyshire Dales, and now Milton Keynes) you have the opposite - prosperous, clean, work ethic, etc.

No offence, but you sound like a complete prick. And a confused one at that.

No offence, but you sound like a complete prick. And a confused one at that.

You cannot deny facts. Whereas I can ignore your (personal) opinion(s).

Perhaps one of the silent majority who have drifted south for decades. Didn't the drift only stop (or slow down) due to the false 'boom' Labour years?

Labour destroyed the country yet people vote Labour again??? Deary me. No common sense, only tradition....

Any views on the AV referendum happening at the same time ??
It’s a “no” from me.

Has tactical voting disappeared now? :ohno: My voting is based on anything but Tory (there wasn't an option for that on this poll), but my Marple vote defaults to Lib Dem. Are the Greens non existent in Stockport?

Labour destroyed the country yet people vote Labour again??? Deary me. No common sense, only tradition....

Any views on the AV referendum happening at the same time ??
It’s a “no” from me.

These two comments I'd like to tie in together, I have never voted Labour, but I think its too simplistic to say that they did destroy the country. Sure allowing a housing bubble to grow, personal debt to grow, companies to grow beyond their means and to allow banks to gamble with astronomical sums each and every day on the derivative market were the cause, but I think its safe to say that any free market conservative would still have allowed the same process to have happened, which for me is the real issue, choice.

Watching Question Time or a major debate in parliament, it does highlight the futility of it all. Whatever you think about the traditional starting points of Conservative and Labour, the actual difference between the two is null. Some folk like to create and us and them atmosphere between voters based on traditional allegiances, christ there is nout better then an ideological principle to get one annoyed, but the reality is the real separation is not between voters themselves but between the elector and the elected.

So I'll be voting yes for AV as I want a shake up of it all, personally Id have voted yes for PR, but AV will do for now. First past the post encourages the seesaw politics we have in this country which creates complacency and a job for life in many constituencies. Politicians should never take voters for granted, it should be a constant discussion and they shouldnt be allowed to ride roughshod over people who never actually voted for them without it.

Granted - there’s not as much to separate the main parties as there used to be.
But there still is a choice - broadly to do with how large you want the state...
Large under the Tories, or vast under labour / lib dems.
Pretty much the only party arguing for a substantially smaller state is UKIP.

As for AV - I have several main problems :

1. It favours the centre ground. So Lib Dems should do very nicely, squeezing the Tories and labour more-or-less equally. Meaning the outcome we saw at the last general election is likely to become the norm - with the Lib dems as king makers, and policy being decided in a smoke filled room rather than by manifesto... ie the “Coalition agreement”.

2. In marginal seats it’s likely to be the second preference votes of fringe parties that end up deciding the outcome.
The BNP for example would normally come pretty much last, meaning their voter’s 2nd choice vote would be redistributed... which could easily decide it.
Is it right for the voting preferences of fringe and sometimes extreme individuals to decide the outcome in a constituency. ?? ... It doesn’t sit well.

3. It favours mediocrity over the bold. After all AV returned Red Ed as the Labour leader, where as his elder brother would clearly have been a better tool with which to beet the Tories. (If you’re into that sort of thing).

Whatever your views on AV - I think the real problem with politics is the electorate rather than the system. Most people in the country vote one way - always have and always will.
Why I do not know, and how you change it I do not know either...
Labour’s candidate could be a dribbling donkey in a flat cap and still get elected in many parts of Manchester.
Similarly the Tories could offer a dribbling donkey in a top hat in some parts and have the same result.

Is this ignorance, laziness, peer pressure ?? who knows - probably a bit of each.

I guess that Tories spin on being green might have got to me.

I have worked and lived in areas that vote Labour. I see failure, filth, laziness and selfishness. Whereas when I have lived in those areas that vote Conservative (Derbyshire Dales, and now Milton Keynes) you have the opposite - prosperous, clean, work ethic, etc.



But both MK seats were Labour until the last election! Are you suggesting that in 5 years the residents of MK have gone from lazy,selfish failures, to prosperous, clean, hard working people? Maybe the difference you have noticed between Labour and Conservative voting areas is coincidental?

You cannot deny facts.

You didn't mention any facts, just nasty stereotyping which had more than a whiff of early 20th century eugenics about it.

Still, thanks for opening my eyes as to how Greens really are though.

You didn't mention any facts, just nasty stereotyping which had more than a whiff of early 20th century eugenics about it.

Still, thanks for opening my eyes as to how Greens really are though.

Bit sweeping

From Twitter

GwynneMP - Andrew Gwynne
Not a single Liberal Democrat standing in Tameside Council elections on 5th May! How pathetic!!! Even UKIP managed 19 candidates.

You didn't mention any facts, just nasty stereotyping which had more than a whiff of early 20th century eugenics about it.

Still, thanks for opening my eyes as to how Greens really are though.

.... errr I think he did. And they’re hard to dispute.
Perhaps it would be more constructive to postulate why - rather than branding someone a prick because they take a view different from yours ?

I know I have Lib Dem picture but really can't be bothered to change it.

Tories, do as they please. Labour are control freaks. The Lib Dems fucked it up and lost all support they had. Who do you vote for? My view, it doesn't really matter. Labour were going to cut services anyway, so its same for same.

Labour's had its time in Manchester for me. The fat councillors have failed. Their greed has led to their demise. People who are actually considering voting labour in are seriously misinformed.

Plot holes, Pot holes and pot-holed policies.

.... errr I think he did. And they’re hard to dispute.


What's hard to dispute? That poor people are "lazy, selfish and ignorant"?

Sounds like the sweeping statements the Nazis used to use against groups of people they didn't like. And if you believe in that dangerous nonsense then all it shows is what a nasty, ignorant person you are. Now that is hard to dispute.

Can I say to the 20 people who say they are voting labour - why? Particularly what would you say it is that they do (that say, the conservatives wouldn't do) that you like?

Are any of the big guns (Leese, Bernstein etc) up for re-election this time? I would love it if they were kicked out. I just can't stand that they pretty much know they're safe. They know people will blindly vote for them - they can do anything they want.

What like Cameron standing in a seat with a 60% Conservative share of the vote, happy that he cant be kicked out? Or Clegg standing in a seat with 50% Lib dem share of the vote?

Leese had 56% share of the vote in Crumpsall, a majority of almost 40% on next nearest candidate. Bernstein is the council chief executive, hes not a politician he started at the bottom as a junior clerk and worked his way to the top, heres a 2008 Biograpthy of him.

Sir Howard Bernstein joined the City Council as Junior Clerk, rising to become the Council’s Chief Executive in 1998.

Following the terrorist bombing of the City Centre in 1996 he was appointed Chief Executive of Manchester Millennium Limited, the public/private sector Task Force set up by the Government and the City Council to oversee the redesign and rebuilding of the City Centre, a task successfully delivered to critical acclaim on time and on budget.

Sir Howard is known for his business acumen; for forging partnerships with the City’s key players; and for successfully attracting millions of pounds into the City. He played a key role in the regeneration of Hulme, the first area in the UK to attract City Challenge status, and subsequent area regeneration initiatives, most recently in East Manchester; in major projects including The Bridgewater Hall, the Velodrome and the Arena, and the new International Convention Centre; the City of Manchester Stadium and SportCity Complex and City Art Gallery.

Since the mid 1980’s, he has been Clerk to Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Authority and took a lead in introducing Metrolink, the UK’s first on-street public transport system which is hoped to be expanded further across the conurbation shortly.
He was involved in the establishment of Manchester Airport as a plc in the mid-1980’s and has driven the expansion of the company into the next stage of commercial and physical development.

Sir Howard was instrumental in securing Manchester as Host City for the XVII Commonwealth Games in 2002, which was the largest multi-sport event ever hosted by the UK and the most successful Games ever.

Regular business surveys of the top 100 financial figures in the NW consistently rate him one of the most influential. Recognition of Sir Howard's contribution to Manchester includes being awarded an honorary degree by UMIST in 2003, Manchester University in 2004, Manchester Metropolitan University in 2005 and Mancunian of the Year also in 2003. Sir Howard was knighted for his services to Manchester in the New Year’s Honours 2003. The Financial Times group FDI named Sir Howard as their European personality of the year 2004. Sir Howard was recognised with a Lifetime Achievement Award at the Regeneration and Renewal Awards in September 2008.

Sir Howard took up appointment as Chairman of Blackpool URC in July 2008.

Can I say to the 20 people who say they are voting labour - why? Particularly what would you say it is that they do (that say, the conservatives wouldn't do) that you like?

Are any of the big guns (Leese, Bernstein etc) up for re-election this time? I would love it if they were kicked out. I just can't stand that they pretty much know they're safe. They know people will blindly vote for them - they can do anything they want.

Can someone who doesn't know that council chief execs are not elected really question anybody else's political views?

I vote (and will continue to vote) Labour because despite all its flaws it's the most viable political coalition that is dedicated to minimising the harm that our society does to its most vulnerable members and to preserving some equity in the economic system. It's not just whether you cut, but what you cut and who it hurts.

They're far from perfect, and I don't think they're magically going to solve all life's problems; but I don't think anyone you vote for will. So I make the most effective choice I can with the electoral resources available to me.

:okay:Can someone who doesn't know that council chief execs are not elected really question anybody else's political views?

I vote (and will continue to vote) Labour because despite all its flaws it's the most viable political coalition that is dedicated to minimising the harm that our society does to its most vulnerable members and to preserving some equity in the economic system. It's not just whether you cut, but what you cut and who it hurts.

They're far from perfect, and I don't think they're magically going to solve all life's problems; but I don't think anyone you vote for will. So I make the most effective choice I can with the electoral resources available to me.

:okay::okay::okay::okay::okay:

What's hard to dispute? That poor people are "lazy, selfish and ignorant"?

Sounds like the sweeping statements the Nazis used to use against groups of people they didn't like. And if you believe in that dangerous nonsense then all it shows is what a nasty, ignorant person you are. Now that is hard to dispute.

No. He didn’t say that, and neither did I.
Infact you seam to have conjoured “ignorant” all by your self.

Read what he said :


I have worked and lived in areas that vote Labour. I see failure, filth, laziness and selfishness. Whereas when I have lived in those areas that vote Conservative (Derbyshire Dales, and now Milton Keynes) you have the opposite - prosperous, clean, work ethic, etc.


Granted - more of an observation rather than fact - but difficult to dispute none-the-less.

Saying that “shit-hole areas are pretty much invariably Labour” is not the same as saying “all labour voters live in or are responsible” for said shit holes.

Can someone who doesn't know that council chief execs are not elected really question anybody else's political views?

I vote (and will continue to vote) Labour because despite all its flaws it's the most viable political coalition that is dedicated to minimising the harm that our society does to its most vulnerable members and to preserving some equity in the economic system. It's not just whether you cut, but what you cut and who it hurts.

They're far from perfect, and I don't think they're magically going to solve all life's problems; but I don't think anyone you vote for will. So I make the most effective choice I can with the electoral resources available to me.

Execs plural? As far as I'm aware regardless of whether Leese is elected to his position within the council, he is still a councillor, it says on his site (http://www.manchester.gov.uk/site/scripts/councillors_info.php?councillorID=60) that his term ends next year. I don't know why I thought that Bernstein was a city centre councillor. I think he leads a city centre initiative.

But in answer to your first question - of course I can. What does political structure have to do with political views?

So yes, I am absolutely going to question why you're voting labour. OK, you're telling me that you think that Labour are the only party in Manchester who will minimise "the harm that our society does to its most vulnerable members" and who will preserve "some equity in the economic system". Do you know specifically that the conservatives or the lib dems or the greens won't do that? What is it that they will do that will reverse that?

Granted - more of an observation rather than fact - but difficult to dispute none-the-less.

Is it bollocks. It was a nasty, snobbish comment by someone upset that the democratic system won't give him the result he wants.

And in response to someone above who asked why vote Labour, well to protect decent people from the small-minded ignorance of people like 'link road' would be a good start.

Execs plural? As far as I'm aware regardless of whether Leese is elected to his position within the council, he is still a councillor, it says on his site (http://www.manchester.gov.uk/site/scripts/councillors_info.php?councillorID=60) that his term ends next year. I don't know why I thought that Bernstein was a city centre councillor. I think he leads a city centre initiative.

But in answer to your first question - of course I can. What does political structure have to do with political views?

So yes, I am absolutely going to question why you're voting labour. OK, you're telling me that you think that Labour are the only party in Manchester who will minimise "the harm that our society does to its most vulnerable members" and who will preserve "some equity in the economic system". Do you know specifically that the conservatives or the lib dems or the greens won't do that? What is it that they will do that will reverse that?

Chief execs plural because every council has one. Leese is a councillor, the council leader and leads the council's executive committee, but that doesn't make him the chief executive, which is an apolitical civil service position held by Bernstein.

Your ignorance of political structure has a lot to do with your political views, as it gives the impression that you haven't got a clue about either. Lack of knowledge suggests that you aren't particularly informed about political issues and therefore, that the views you have will hold little weight. That may be an unfair judgement and if it is I apologise, but if you're going to start talking down the people it's best first to check you aren't standing in a hole*.

As for specifically why I would continue to vote Labour, it's not a case of knowing what they would do versus the Tories or Lib Dems; I can't predict the future and I'm not psychic. Looking at policies and manifestos and imagining that it's a window into our leaders souls is also about as useful as astrology. All I can do is make inferences about future actions based on past behaviour. What this tells me is that when a decision needs to be made, certain parties will act against my interests (or those of the political communities I support) and others won't (or will do so less often). Of those that will do so less often, Labour appears the most viable electoral force and the broadest social coalition. That's all there is to it.

*This goes for everyone. Particularly me.

Chief execs plural because every council has one. Leese is a councillor, the council leader and leads the council's executive committee, but that doesn't make him the chief executive, which is an apolitical civil service position held by Bernstein.

Your ignorance of political structure has a lot to do with your political views, as it gives the impression that you haven't got a clue about either. Lack of knowledge suggests that you aren't particularly informed about political issues and therefore, that the views you have will hold little weight. That may be an unfair judgement and if it is I apologise, but if you're going to start talking down the people it's best first to check you aren't standing in a hole*.


Could you explain this more. The ignorance you think I have (relative to what?) of the structure of Manchester's council, says that I don't have a clue about my political views? Eh? A very specific lack of knowledge (Thinking Bernstein was a councillor) says that any "political views" I might have hold little weight? Well it's bollocks, but if it was true so? I don't think I asked you to assess my political views or credibility to have political views (?). Why do you think its your business? I don't think I've put forward any political views here, it seems as though you're pretty cynically (and defensively) trying to snipe me down. I think all of what you've said about my political knowledge is absolute bollocks. And so I'll continue.

As for specifically why I would continue to vote Labour, it's not a case of knowing what they would do versus the Tories or Lib Dems; I can't predict the future and I'm not psychic. Looking at policies and manifestos and imagining that it's a window into our leaders souls is also about as useful as astrology. All I can do is make inferences about future actions based on past behaviour. What this tells me is that when a decision needs to be made, certain parties will act against my interests (or those of the political communities I support) and others won't (or will do so less often). Of those that will do so less often, Labour appears the most viable electoral force and the broadest social coalition. That's all there is to it.

So you don't have a clue specifically what each party will do, what it is that labour do in Manchester that you like that you don't think the Lib Dems or Green, Conservatives etc will do... You have an ignorance of the political issues. ;)

OK more questions. How can you say that you can only make inferences based on how people have acted in the past and that be a useful way to judge who you're going to vote for, when the majority of the parties or independents who are up for election have never been in a situation where they can make decisions?

Are you basically saying that you vote labour because they are in power now and they know how to run a council?

How do you know that other parties will "do so less often"? where do your inferences come from there? What is that based on?

Your ignorance of political structure has a lot to do with your political views, as it gives the impression that you haven't got a clue about either.

It does nothing of the sort.

I thought you could probably make easy work countering Kids' views, if they hold so 'little weight' as you suggest, yet you seem to have simply resorted to a personal attack on him. Interesting.

Some of the points make me chuckle, and remember why most people shy away from 'political' conversations/debate. Especially the eugenics pot-shot, which I found both rude and insensitive, given my personal background.

All I can say is THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

(The City of) Manchester's children are poor, as well as becoming more and more obese, living in a poor quality environment. Which party offers them the best hope? IMO, it is the Greens. I don't have children myself yet, but I care for their (potential) future.

Just be thankful that we haven't got the BNP to contend with (except at MEP level), otherwise GM would be placed in the same league as desirable locations as Burnley or Stoke-on-Trent.

Far from being anti-Labour, I am actively involved in helping my local three Labour Councillors improving our local community, because I do that for my neighbours, and my Trade Union, certainly not for them, or MCC.

I think until the conversation can elevate itself from the level of two drunk divorcees, bitterly arguing over who should have washed the pots, then I will avoid this thread.

More interestingly will be what the possible result will be, which parties will control which council and the greater impact on AGAM/CA politics.

And why there is an advert on here for two Finnish EPP candidates?

And why there is an advert on here for two Finnish EPP candidates?

The ads are linked to thread titles/content, IIRC. Better that than Gay Bear Dating ads, which seemed to plague Housepricecrash.co.uk/forum threads with all their 'Bull' and 'Bear' housing market banter. Certainly raised a few eyebrows, though.

Anyone see the letter in the MEN today by the UKIP MEP?
'Europe is planning to remote control your household electrical appliances such as vacuum cleaners and kettles through your electricty meters!'

Paranoid much?

^^
:D :D

If that means someone else is doing the vacuuming for me, I'm all for it. The idea of someone in brussels using my new self-propelled Dyson DC9000 in the dining room while I'm sat watching TV (or making some of the less improtant contributions SSC) kind of appeals :)

Election day tomorrow folks!

Remember to, as they say, 'Vote early, vote often!'

I'll post all the Greater Manchester council results once they're in on Friday morning.

Election day tomorrow folks!

Remember to, as they say, 'Vote early, vote often!'

I'll post all the Greater Manchester council results once they're in on Friday morning.
Can't wait. Labour or Tory. Both a bunch of twats.

Mess up in Stockport, 90 people given wrong wards ballot papers.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/politics/s/1419916_vote-2011-stockport-election-blunder-means-90-voters-put-cross-on-wrong-ballot-papers

I shall vote Tory and yes to AV.

I shall vote Tory and yes to AV.

An idiosyncratic choice that one.

Can't say what other authorities will do, but the expectation is that the Tories will lose nominal control of Bury with labour gaining two to four seats.

The big question will be if the Lib Dems are brave and smart enough to support a minority Labour control and also act as the opposition in their Prestwich seats.

We will see,

Ended up voting for the green party and voted yes for av. Nearly went with the Lib Dems.

Some tweets from the last half hour

manchestermule MULE
Rumours Lib Dems nervous in West Didsbury. Not good for them if so #Manchester

ArifBBC Arif Ansari
Lib Dems appear to be facing meltdown in Liverpool. Looks bad for them in Manchester too w likely defeat for leader simon Ashley.

More tweets

manchestermule MULE
Withington Labour activists starting to feel hopeful. Feel Greens are splitting the Lib Dem vote #Manchester #le11

InsidetheM60 Inside the M60
Just been speaking to council leader Sir Richard Leese who says he believes that turnout is low across the city

ArifBBC Arif Ansari
Lib Dem group leader in Manchester Simon Ashley has conceded defeat.

An interesting one

InsidetheM60 Inside the M60
A rumour is now doing the rounds that The Lib Dems may have come third behind the Greens in Withington

Gone by the sounds of it

InsidetheM60 Inside the M60
Can now confirm that Simon Ashley,Lib Dem leader in Manchester has conceded defeat in Gorton South

All gone by the sounds of it

ArifBBC Arif Ansari
I'm hearing the Lib Dems have lost all seats being defended in Manchester.

Wow...every LibDem has lost their seat in Manchester. Pretty extraordinary if true.

So Manchester's not just a Tory-free zone, it's fast becoming a Lib-free zone too!

LibDems have lost control of Stockport it's believed.

Wow...every LibDem has lost their seat in Manchester. Pretty extraordinary if true.

So Manchester's not just a Tory-free zone, it's fast becoming a Lib-free zone too!

Its rumoured to that in many wards the Lib Dems are in third behind the Greens.

The only thing thats going to keep Clegg his job is that in Scotland theres been a massive swing to SNP not Labour. SNP has somehow managed to convince people its Conservative, Liberal and Socialist at the same time, at least from the mix of voters.

The only thing thats going to keep Clegg his job is that in Scotland theres been a massive swing to SNP not Labour. SNP has somehow managed to convince people its Conservative, Liberal and Socialist at the same time, at least from the mix of voters.

Problem in Scotland is with the Liberal vote collapse there are only two real alternatives. And with Labour only recently kicked out of national government and with Salmond running a decent campaign the natural place for this votes is to the SNP.

Labour have gained Bolton from No Overall Control.

The stunning SNP success creates issues for the Edinburgh Trams.

A year or so ago, Labour were confidently expecting to get back into power in Holyrood, and there was a tacit understanding that they might relent on the absolute refusal to put extra national Scots transport funding into the tram.

That possibility has now gone out of the window; and it is clear that Edinburgh will have to fund any shortfall themselves.

Basically, the Edinburgh scheme can be split into three sections - Airport to Haymarket; Haymarket to St Andrew Sq, and St Andrew Sq to Leith. It is now clear that there is nowhere near enough money in the original pot to pay for all three. Unfortunately, however, the track laid so far doesn't join up, so there is no ready way to cut the scheme short to build it with the funds available.

It looks as though the SNP will be quite happy for this sorry mess to continue; on the basis that it will be Labour (whose original idea it was) who will suffer the political consequences.

Looking at democracy in action up in Scotland, I do hope that one day Manchester could have something on the same lines with a fully proportionate devolved city region here.

The Scots appear to have so much more say on their lives politically then any of us down here can ever hope to have.

Look at Bury!

Lab 25
Tory 20
Lib 5

Ramsbottom still to declare, after couple of recounts last night was a deadheat!

Either they need to find a consistent winner on the recounts or get a coin out to essentially toss for control of the council.

Looking at democracy in action up in Scotland, I do hope that one day Manchester could have something on the same lines with a fully proportionate devolved city region here.

The Scots appear to have so much more say on their lives politically then any of us down here can ever hope to have.

I absolutely agree.

Just having a Mayor and Assembly here in GM would be a good start!

The Scots seem to have full control of their destiny where as we in the North still have to go with the begging bowl to Whitehall.

Labour have taken control of Bury. The ward that took Labour over the top was a dead heat and Labour won it by choosing straws!

It looks as though the SNP will be quite happy for this sorry mess to continue; on the basis that it will be Labour (whose original idea it was) who will suffer the political consequences.

I wouldn't be quite sure of that. There comes a point in poltitics where it doesn't matter whose idea wasting the money was and it becomes the fault of whoever continues to do it; look at the Millenium Dome. If the SNP want to bankrupt their own capital it isn't going to look very good whose ever idea it was.

I don't want AV, I prefer the 1st past the post system to be kept for the House of Commons.

If we're doing political reform, lets do it properly, scrap those unelected ****s in the Lords and replace them with a fully elected chamber, voted in through proper proportional representation?

Quite frankly I'm far to pissed of with politics to really care anymore...

If we're doing political reform, lets do it properly, scrap those unelected ****s in the Lords and replace them with a fully elected chamber, voted in through proper proportional representation?

:applause:

OK folks, here it is. A run down of the full results in Greater Manchester.

Overall, Labour gained three councils (Bolton, Bury and Oldham), and additionally the LibDems lost Stockport. Rochdale stays under No Overall Control with Labour as the largest party. Labour would expect to take Rochdale next year.

With Labour now in majority control of 7 out of the 10 councils, this should be reflected with Labour very much in control of the new Greater Manchester Combined Authority

Total Councillors change:

Labour 387 (+55)
Conservative 130 (-5)
LibDem 104 (-35)
Other 24 (-15)
Total: 645 (Labour hold 59% of the council seats in Greater Manchester)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/GreaterManchesterNumbered.png

1. CITY OF MANCHESTER (LABOUR HOLD)
Lab: 75 (+13), LibDem: 20 (-11), Con: 0 (-1), Other: 1 (-1), Total: 96 seats.

2. STOCKPORT (NO OVERALL CONTROL GAIN FROM LIB DEMS)
LibDem: 31 (-4), Lab: 16 (+3), Con: 11 (+2), Other: 5 (-1), Total: 63

3. TAMESIDE (LABOUR HOLD)
Lab: 48 (+1), Con: 8 (-), Other: 1 (-1), Total: 57

4. OLDHAM (LABOUR GAIN FROM NO OVERALL CONTROL)
Lab: 34 (+7), LibDem 21 (-6), Con: 4 (-), Others: 1 (-1), Total: 60

5. ROCHDALE (STAYS AS NO OVERALL CONTROL)
Lab: 29 (+7), Con 14 (+2), LibDem: 13 (-4), Others: 4 (-5), Total: 60

6. BURY (LABOUR GAIN FROM NO OVERALL CONTROL)
Lab: 26 (+6), Con: 20 (-3), LibDem: 5 (-3), Total: 51

7. BOLTON (LABOUR GAIN FROM NO OVERALL CONTROL)
Lab: 35 (+5), Con: 20 (-1), LibDem: 5 (-3), Others: 0 (-1), Total: 60

8. WIGAN (LABOUR HOLD)
Lab: 58 (+7), Con: 5 (-2), LibDem: 2 (-1), Others: 10 (-4), Total: 75

9. CITY OF SALFORD (LABOUR HOLD)
Lab: 44 (+5), Con: 11 (-2), LibDem: 3 (-2), Others: 2 (-1), Total: 60

10. TRAFFORD (CONSERVATIVE HOLD)
Con: 37 (-), Lab: 22 (+1), LibDem: 4 (-1), Total: 63

Political reform put to bed for a generation.

AV may have been the first step on the road to PR, sticking with FPTP has ensured that first step is not going to be taken for at least 30 years now.

Still, that's democracy.

^^ I think that the Rammy solution could catch on though. Rather than AV let's do away with voting altogether and just get the candidates to draw cable ties to see who wins - apparently the returning officer did not have any straw.

Actually this is great news for Bury as it gets rid of our own little coalition where the Lib-Dem backed Tory council had pushed through plans to privatise all of the council services and become a commissioning body only. Presumably, Labour will reverse this policy...

Can someone please tell me why Trafford votes Tory? I don't understand why it is so different from the rest of GM.

^^ I think that the Rammy solution could catch on though. Rather than AV let's do away with voting altogether and just get the candidates to draw cable ties to see who wins - apparently the returning officer did not have any straw.

Actually this is great news for Bury as it gets rid of our own little coalition where the Lib-Dem backed Tory council had pushed through plans to privatise all of the council services and become a commissioning body only. Presumably, Labour will reverse this policy...

Actually Tories backed down a couple of weeks ago due to overwhelming public and council opposition to the idea. Pretty glad they were so dumb as to announce the radical privitisation 6 weeks before a local election.

Can someone please tell me why Trafford votes Tory? I don't understand why it is so different from the rest of GM.

It has a rather different makeup, large number of business and factory owners, relativly low population for its size compared to its neighbours and some rural areas. Large tracts of land are dedicated solely to industrial or commercial use with no housing. This means the urban population that work in these industries which would normally be Labour supporters is outnumbered by the business owners and affluent small towns and villages at its extremity. Bury is the other natural tory borough having a small dense central market town then vast amounts of countryside.

Can someone please tell me why Trafford votes Tory? I don't understand why it is so different from the rest of GM.

Short answer is that it's much wealthier*.

Long answer is probably something to do with the two authorities increasingly being mirrors of each other, with opposite virtues and vices attracting increasingly divergent communities. Manchester's cosmopolitanism will attract those who will vote Labour, Liberal or Green; and Trafford's conservatism will attract those more likely to vote Tory. As these groups become more concentrated the local tendencies become stronger and the trend becomes keener.

Or basically Trafford is Manchester's Tories huddling together for warmth.

*Although because it has some very deprived areas it's not as wealthy on average as it might appear. But it's rich bits are very rich and very Tory.

Can someone please tell me why Trafford votes Tory? I don't understand why it is so different from the rest of GM.

It seems as though 'urban' Trafford (within the M60) tend towards Labour. The Consevative wards are all Sale, Altrincham, Timperley, Bowdon, Hale, Flixton area - Basically areas of greater affluence than most of Greater Manchester. Salford follows a similar pattern in the sense that it is Labour closer to Manchester, and Tory on the urban fringes. The difference is most of the population of Salford live within the M60 wheras most of 'inner city' Trafford is basically Trafford Park, where nobody lives. Most of Trafford's population is concentrated in weathy commuter towns and villages.

Interestingly, in terms of share of the vote across the whole borough, Trafford isn't as firmly Tory as you might expect:

Political Party Votes % Seats for this Election
Current Election Won +/-
Conservative 32,376 43.1% 37 14 14 -
Green 5,172 6.9% 0 0 0 -
Labour 29,596 39.4% 21 7 8 +1
Liberal Democrat 7,459 9.9% 5 1 0 -1
UKIP 542 0.7% 0 0 0 -

Less than 3000 votes between Con and Lab, out of a 75k turnout.

Can someone please tell me why Trafford votes Tory? I don't understand why it is so different from the rest of GM.

In the late 1990s Trafford was under Labour control and the Tories didn't get a majority again until about 2004 I think. So there's still hope for it!

To be fair Sale (west of the A56 - Sale Moor and Priory) is also Labour voting - probably as this side of the road is not as rich as the eastern side of the road.

Also, over in Flixton, Urmston and Davyhulme the seats swing from Tory to Labour over the years.

It is only the east of the A56 in Sale (where you find some very wealthy areas), Timperley, Altrincham, Hale Barns and Bowdon that are consistently blue.


Although Labour not likely to take control of Trafford again anytime soon (there were some boundary changes some time ago) by the next election I would fully expect it to be in NOC as all those areas I mentioned that swing one way then the other could very easily be red in 3 or 4 years.

oh, there is also the 11 plus.

As mentioned above the wealthy group together in Trafford, normally because Tarqin and Pettles will get private education which will get them through the 11 plus and will in turn allow them to go to some grammar schools that get incredibly good GCSE and A-Level results.

As a personal point of view, as someone who lives in Trafford and passed the 11 plus, I think that having the division at the young age is incredibly negative for the educational aspirations of the 'bottom' 60% of the population - the exact part of the population that in my view needs to have their educational attainment increased to improve society as a whole. But that is for another thread.

Just look how red GM (and Warrington) is now...

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/

Trafford results...

http://www.trafford.gov.uk/content/elections/resultssummary.asp?year=2011

Looking through the list, Broadheath is down between Sale and Alty, that could easily slip red.
Likewise Davyhulme East & West & Flixton.
St Marys is East of the A56 in Sale and could possibly go red.

Already red, outside of the M60 are Priory and Sale Moor (both east of the A56).

FWIW...

Tory 43.1% of the vote.
Lab 39.4%
Lib Dem 9.9%
Green 6.9%
UKIP 0.7%

normally because Tarqin and Pettles will get private education which will get them through the 11 plus and will in turn allow them to go to some grammar schools that get incredibly good GCSE and A-Level results.

I went to a Trafford grammar school, and there were very few in my year who had come from private education. It's a lazy stereotype.

In the late 1990s Trafford was under Labour control and the Tories didn't get a majority again until about 2004 I think. So there's still hope for it!

No thanks. They didn't exactly leave it in a great state the last time they lost power here. I've lived in one of the areas with Labour councillors, and they're far more interested in playing politics against the Tories than working for the local area these days.

I went to a Trafford grammar school, and there were very few in my year who had come from private education. It's a lazy stereotype.



Not what I meant. What I was saying is that the areas with more richer areas, Alty, Sale, Hale etc all have a much higher % of kids going to the grammar schools whilst OT, and Stretford have lower %.

For whatever reason, be it private education, more parental drive or whatever, the richer areas DO take up a higher % of the grammar school places than the poorer areas. Sale is a great example of that. The modern schools tend to have high numbers from the race course, the grammar schools more so from the richer parts of the area.


No thanks. They didn't exactly leave it in a great state the last time they lost power here. I've lived in one of the areas with Labour councillors, and they're far more interested in playing politics against the Tories than working for the local area these days.

You get good and bad councillors from all parties. Some work hard for their area and some don't. I really don't think the party that they represent makes much difference on that score to be honest.

I've lived in one of the areas with Labour councillors, and they're far more interested in playing politics against the Tories than working for the local area these days.

Now, that IS a lazy stereotype.Labour councillors work very hard in my part of Salford, and I occasionally see them around, working with community groups, despite not being that politically active myself. Maybe it has something to do with them not having to play politics with the Tories - one of the many advantages of living in Tory free zone!

Now, that IS a lazy stereotype.Labour councillors work very hard in my part of Salford, and I occasionally see them around, working with community groups, despite not being that politically active myself. Maybe it has something to do with them not having to play politics with the Tories - one of the many advantages of living in Tory free zone!

Salford isn't a Tory free zone - I can think of two, Cllrs Lindley and Garrido of the top of my head, the former I've seen working hard too. Unfortunatley Salford would elect a donkey if it wore a red rosette and Salfords Labour cllrs know it - they've wasted money on ****ing ice rinks and that stupid magazines for years... and the pre-election bumf from Joe Murphy was the most hypocritical bash-the-coalition BS I didn't want to read in ages...

Likewise I hear about some of the antics that teh Tories get up to in Hale where they are guarenteed never to lose their seats.

You get good and bad councillors / MPs from all sides.

Likewise I hear about some of the antics that teh Tories get up to in Hale where they are guarenteed never to lose their seats.

You get good and bad councillors / MPs from all sides.

You do indeed - lying thieving cheating b*****ds on all sides :ohno:
And some good ones too... :)

Some memebers of Labour party round our way can come out their front doors and wave small peices of paper and make problems like dishonestly obtaining monies from us to buy Tvs just go away... :ohno:

Now, that IS a lazy stereotype.Labour councillors work very hard in my part of Salford, and I occasionally see them around, working with community groups, despite not being that politically active myself. Maybe it has something to do with them not having to play politics with the Tories - one of the many advantages of living in Tory free zone!

To clarify; I was referring to the councillors in my particular area, not Labour councillors as a whole.

In Trafford, they certainly do come across as being more interested playing politics than trying to work with the leading group to improve things. Because we have an electoral map (as previously mentioned earlier in the thread) where the majority of the borough is in Tory hands, but with the North Trafford area in Labour hands, this leads to a situation where the views of the area are not being represented like they should be, just in case a bit of bipartisanship means the Tories get any credit for anything round here. The pre-election literature from Labour was almost exclusively about the cuts, and how they would work to protect the area from cuts. How are they going to do that, if they're not going to make any genuine attempt to try and work with the leading group?

Salford isn't a Tory free zone No, but the ward I live in is.:)

No thanks. They didn't exactly leave it in a great state the last time they lost power here. I've lived in one of the areas with Labour councillors, and they're far more interested in playing politics against the Tories than working for the local area these days.

Hmm. And I'm sure you're perfectly impartial on the matter.

The Tories lost seats across Greater Mancheser on Thursday so I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Hmm. And I'm sure you're perfectly impartial on the matter.

The Tories lost seats across Greater Mancheser on Thursday so I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Sorry to disappoint you, but i've never voted Tory. So i'd say its safe to assume I am more impartial than you.

Perhaps you'd like to come back with an argument that was formulated after more than 2 seconds thought?

Making an argument that Labour councillors just 'play politics' was a bollocks argument on your part and I'm just pointing that out.

It's the kind of lazy stereotyping you'd find in the Daily Mail.

Making an argument that Labour councillors just 'play politics' was a bollocks argument on your part and I'm just pointing that out.

Well you didn't 'just point it out', you tried to make out that my argument was based on partisan politics. So you already look silly on that score, particularly given your own complete lack of impartiality you've demonstrated on political threads on this forum.

Aside from that, if you'd read the my posts properly, you'd see I clearly stated I wasn't referring to all Labour councillors (given that I have friends who are Labour councillors and work hard, that'd be a bit a bit stupid wouldn't it?), but simply to the ones in my area. Unless you also live here, I think I'm in a better position to comment on my local area than you are.

Still, no surprise to see you dismiss it as a 'bollocks argument', given that your previous contributions to this thread have included branding someone a 'prick', accusing them of supporting eugenics and being akin to the Nazis, and dismissing the entire Green party based on the views of a single anonymous forum poster.

Calm children. All politician play politics. Get real please and go and read Machiavelli.

Some points I would like to raise.

1. How astonishing that Bury MBC was decided by lots.
2. How does the results affect Greater Mancunia politics
3. How amusing is it to see Warrington included on the MEN election page.

1. Indeed astonishing, I guess both candidates must have consented to avoid a rerun.
2. At the AGMA council heads level not much, there were two Conservative, one Liberal 1 noc and 6 Labour before. Now theres 8 Labour, 1 Conservative and 1 (whoever is running Stockports NOC I imagine it would continue to be LD as they are twice the size of next competitor with some independents in coalition)
At the TfGM/GMCA level there was a Libdem-Conservative coalition with a small majority, now however I guess it will be healthily Labour.
3. Guess it goes to the fact demographically and statistically Warrington is part of the Manchester City Region even though its not a full member of AGMA/GMCA.

Im just waiting for the Councils to get down and start working again so I have papers to go over, theyve been on break for the election campaign and then the post election holiday period before meetings restarts.

TfGM will be 20 Lab 13 others this year.

Calm children. All politician play politics. Get real please and go and read Machiavelli.

Some points I would like to raise.

1. How astonishing that Bury MBC was decided by lots.
2. How does the results affect Greater Mancunia politics
3. How amusing is it to see Warrington included on the MEN election page.

Some people have strange notions of amusement. Warrington's results were repoted in detail in both the Liverpool Echo and Daily Post, as they have been down the years for as long as I can remember.

Likewise the Warrington results have also been in the MEN for ages.

It is 'amusing', if that is the right term, because it is the only none GM council that the MEN provides the reults for that appears on there map - giving the impression that Warrington is in GM to the un-informed (Who will be the majority of the readers).

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/politics/

You don't see Rossendale, Hyndburn or Cheshire East on the map but you do find Warrington. That is odd whichever way you look at it.