Hello, something interesting sparked up. I like to read about different world cultures but these couple of days I'm beginning to wonder if I'm reading propaganda, false information, etc. And I just want to clarify this with our Hungarian community.

For as long as I've lived, I always knew Hungarians were: Christians, Europeans, and Westerners. Even Samuel Huntington's book on Clash of the Civilizations puts Hungary as a Western country.

Now I know that most of Europe speak Indo-European languages but a small portion also speak Uralic languages, notably in Finland, Estonia and Hungary.

My overall knowledge was that Hungarians, Estonians and Finns are somehow therefore ethnically related, due to their linguistic similarities. Of course it doesn't always have to be the case.

But the general consensus was that, okay those guys are all Finno-Ugric and they came from the Urals, etc etc.

But recently, I did the misfortune of searching for "Uralic" videos on youtube. And by God now I'm ever so confused.

I saw this pan Turanian video, now I dont know if this is propaganda or if its actually something the majority of Hungarians believe in. The video links Altaic and Uralic people together, which as far as I'm aware is academically unaccepted. The bigger problem is, it says Hungarians, Turks and Mongols are part of a Turanian group, maybe similar to the broad "Indo-European" or "Afro-Asiatic" family. But Ive searched and searched, and all I got in results were sites that I couldnt trust.

So I wonder, do Hungarians think of themselves simply as European, Uralic, Finno-Ugric, etc? Or do the majority also believe in the Turanian theory?

By the way, if this was asked before, I'm very sorry.

^^

This is a complicated question. Firstly, the Turanian is only a cultural concept in Hungary: Turanian = descendants of the Eurasian nomads. For example: Hungarians, Turkish peoples, Ossetians, Mongols, etc. So, Our ancestors' culture was pagan Turanian semi nomads on the Eurasian steppe in Asia, but now we live in Europe. And now we are Christian but mostly not religious. We are Finno-ugric people, but we do not have a strong relation with their language relatives. We like our Turanian cultural relatives on the other hand. And the self-image of course are politically determined:

social-liberal minority: we are enlightened Europeans
moderate right majority: we are christian Europeans with Turanian ancestors
right and far-right minority: we are not Europeans (they are not undertaken the community with the present decadent and liberal Europeans), we are Turanians

So, the Hungarians mostly are proud of their Turanian ancestors, but they call themselves an European already.

Hungarians are a Western people with a nomadic, Asian historical tradition, a quite interesting mix. However, after a thousand years in the Carpathian basin nomadic traditions are pretty much a lost heritage and Hungarian culture (by which I mostly mean the way people think) is predominantly Germanic, of course with some very individual elements.

However, the idea that perhaps assuming Christianity and thus becoming a Western people was not really a good idea is continuously present in Hungarian culture. This is accompanied by the thought that adapting Western ideas and technology and 'culture' in the Western sense of the word is not fit for Hungarians. Of course this is not the common opinion at all but it's constantly present in our literature and some political movements.
The best example for this (of course I'm mainly writing this for the other Hungarians because unfortunately there is no English translation of that book) is Kard és kasza (Sword and Scythe) by Wass Albert. This is a little like Márquez's Hundred years of solitude, a thousand years long chronicle of a Hungarian family that settles in Transylvania, wins nobility, survives through the many perils of the Middle Ages, and eventually witnesses the eclipse of Hungarian culture with the influx of Romanian immigrants and the fall of Transylvania with rampant Communism and Nazism. Just like in Márquez's novel, in every generation you can find pretty much the same characters and very similar things happen over and over again, only with a different historical context. The main message of the book is that the bringers of Western civilization - priests, the king's men, Germans - always mean trouble because they want to force upon people something that is not meant for Hungarians (or at least Transylvanians, the book makes a clear distinction between western, royal Hungary and Transylvania). Also, the protagonist family is from the so-called 'lesser nobility' which means they have land and some wealth, but they are by no means rich and they have a very close relationship to peasants and agriculture, often working on the fields themselves. Wass obviously considers this the right way and through many characters expresses the thought that 'the land belongs to those who cultivate it', and believes that the loss of Transylvania to the Romanians was because Hungarian noblemen abandoned agricultural work for pleasure in the economically advanced times of the Monarchy, trusting their fields to Romanian peasants. This book is a very good essence of what we are talking about, but no, this is not the general public opinion.

^^ Not the best idea to compare Márquez to Wass. Wass did paperbooks only, he is not a qualitative author. On the other hand, he is a typical far-right hero, and this text is a typical new far-right narrative in Hungary:

However, the idea that perhaps assuming Christianity and thus becoming a Western people was not really a good idea is continuously present in Hungarian culture. This is accompanied by the thought that adapting Western ideas and technology and 'culture' in the Western sense of the word is not fit for Hungarians. Of course this is not the common opinion at all but it's constantly present in our literature and some political movements.

The typical statements in this text: the corrupt West ruins the Magyars, since the western ideas are not compatible with the Hungarian reality.

Much Hungarian sees this now, mostly young persons. They did not see the old and strong West, only the decadent and corrupt West. Greens, gays, PC, self-hatred intellectuals, capitulations before the barbarians, colored gettos, immigrants everywhere, Cohn Bandits, etc. We did not join this West with a thousand years ago.

Pretty much. Although I believe the 'corrupt West' is a fairly modern idea. Wass, for example, praises Germans very much (the first protagonist of the aforementined book admittedly took his idea of building a house from the time he was a mercenary in Germany and Italy, previously unknown in Transylvania in Wass's account). Western ideas not being compatible with 'Hungarian reality' is a very correct description of the idea though. An unbelievably stupid idea, I have to say.
The obvious corruption of the Western World (Hungary nowadays absolutely included) is so far mainly moral and not yet economic. It's still not too late to turn back the tide. Western civilization is obviously superior to everything else humanity has ever created, and even if this was dubious, it would still manifest the only set of values acceptable for us, Westerners.

As of the 'quality' of Wass, personally I love him and I believe that some of his works (Átoksori kísértetek, Tizenhárom almafa, Elvásik a veres csillag) are inevitable lectures for anyone interested in getting to know Hungary. I don't think there is a way to objectively assess the quality of an author: it's on one hand very subjective, on the other hand heavily dependent on how we set our demands of content and entertainment. Stephen King IMO is a far better author than most literary classics, for the simple fact that he is more successful in conveying his message to today's audiences.

Nowday maybe there aren't a single person who totally Hungarian. I'm sure there aren't anyone..

During the centuries all kind of nations invade Hungary. Houndred thousands of germanic,slavic people arrived in every centuries. So all this Uralic origin thing is a bit incomprehensible.

We regard ourselves as simply Europeans.

Nowday maybe there aren't a single person who totally Hungarian. I'm sure there aren't anyone..

During the centuries all kind of nations invade Hungary. Houndred thousands of germanic,slavic people arrived in every centuries. So all this Uralic origin thing is a bit incomprehensible.

We regard ourselves as simply Europeans.

^^ This is not working in the Western Civilization! The Hungarian (or Romanian, German, Spanish) nation is not a blood question, we are not a Jews or nazis! The Hungarian nation is a historical and lingual community.

Thanks for your replies, gentlemen. Much is appreciated.

My only quarrel with the Turanian theory (or Pan-Turanism) is that it's based off old and ancient terms that the Persians gave to any land east of the first Persian Empire's outermost borders. That is, it referred to the deserts of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and other parts of Central Asia that were heavily occupied by Turkic tribes.

The biggest question is, did the Uralic people ever occupy that same territory?
In my opinion, the answer is no, they never did.

I've read about Finno-Ugric tribes occupying Siberia, and the surrounding areas of the Ural mountains, hence why they're given the name "Uralic" as their linguistic classification. But as far as I'm aware, most of them were positioned in the European side of the Urals (west of the mountain barrier that defined the border between Europe and Asia). And even those who were located east of the Urals were pretty much located in the Asian steppes of Siberia, not Turan.

But "Turan" is a location Iranian peoples used, most notably the Persians, to refer to the deserts of Central Asia (i.e. Turkistan) that were mostly inhabited by Turkic tribes, Persianized Turkic tribes, and linguistic relatives of the Turkic peoples (Mongols or other Altaic peoples).

So the Turanian theory is flawed, in my opinion, specifically when pan-Turanists try to promote this false 'racial' propaganda that relates Altaic and Uralic peoples together. In layman terms, the notion that Uralic languages and Altaic languages are related is (according to what I read from many people, online and in books) academically implausible. Furthermore, saying that a nation of people have their origins going back to Asia (and hence are non-European) is, in my opinion, also implausible. The reason is that we all go back to something, including the French, English and Germans all go back to Asia at some point in time. And if we wanted to go further back, we're all Africans as well. So from a philosophical point of view, sure we're all related and we all have the same ancestries. But academically speaking, the Turanian theory has linguistic, genetic and therefore ethnic obstacles to overcome. Therefore when it tries to relate different linguistic/ethnic families together purely on the basis of broad geographic definitions, it is far-fetched in my opinion.

So I was really looking more toward answers regarding Hungarian politics. Did the treaty that force Hungary into ceding its territories after choosing the wrong side during WW1 give the Magyars this social backlash toward their own neighbors?

Anyway, regarding the Ossetians, again they're an Indo-European speaking group located in the Caucasus, which isn't among the boundaries of Turan's geographic definitions.

Interesting discussion nevertheless. I'd like to hear any refutations, or if anyone wants to add a point, so feel welcome to join the discussion anytime. Thanks again for the replies.

The Hungarian cultural, economical and historical turanism, and the Turkic ethnic and imperial turanism is two different thing. This is a good essay: The interplay between Turkish and Hungarian nationalism: Ottoman pan-Turkism and Hungarian turanism (1890-1918) (http://etd.lib.metu.edu.tr/upload/12606629/index.pdf)

And the Ossetians' ancestors is Sarmatian-Alan nomads, and they are Turanian folk: they lived on the Eurasian steppe on the Turanian plain.

The Hungarian cultural, economical and historical turanism, and the Turkic ethnic and imperial turanism is two different thing. This is a good essay: The interplay between Turkish and Hungarian nationalism: Ottoman pan-Turkism and Hungarian turanism (1890-1918) (http://etd.lib.metu.edu.tr/upload/12606629/index.pdf)

And the Ossetians' ancestors is Sarmatian-Alan nomads, and they are Turanian folk: they lived on the Eurasian steppe on the Turanian plain.
Yeah I heard the about Ossetians being original Alans, or "Early Iranians" as someone once used to describe them. But within the Turanian plain is a question. I always thought Turanian boundaries are limited to east of Persia, all the way across the deserts of Central Asia.

Thanks for the link.

Kuwati, we appreciate your interest in Hungarian origins. There were extensive and prodigious quests launched during the heyday of the Austro-Hungarian Empire to locate and discover the Magyars' origins in the East. 19th century Hungarian Romantic nationalism was inflamed and pre-occupied with that very question.

The Hungarian nation is first and foremost a question of linguistic, ... there was a very prominent aristocrat in the early to mid-19th Century, Count Steven Szecsenyi who endeavored to bring Hungary into modernity from the backwater glorified status Hungary occupied before the rise of the dualist Hungarian-Austrian Empire. Szeczenyi launched a rapid modernization programme aimed at securing Hungarians' destinies as a viable, lasting modern unified nation in the Empire>

Szecsenyi famously proclaimed: "The nation lives in its mother tongue" - i.e. the Hungarian nation primarily is identified by language instead of customary ethnic descriptions.

Kuwati, Hungarians are a composite people in Europe who first and foremost indentify with their mother tongue. Every fibre, trace and ray of race in Europe is included in the Hungarian nation today, they are the most genetically intermingled people in Europe.

The great Tatar invasion of 1242 devestated Hungary and a large portion of Magyars were killed as Hungary stood as a central European bastion of Western Christendom against the onslaught of barbarian Mongol hodes. The Kingdom was repopulated by Poles, Germans, Russians, Slavs, French, Italians during the second foundation of Hungary after the Mongols quit Hungary and the country was rebuilt.

Here's a video starring Franco Nero as Prince Arpad during the Hungarian Home Conquest of the Carpathian Basin -- the "Home Settlement". Basin:

bMrWyFea6Co

Kuwati, we appreciate your interest in Hungarian origins. There were extensive and prodigious quests launched during the heyday of the Austro-Hungarian Empire to locate and discover the Magyars' origins in the East. 19th century Hungarian Romantic nationalism was inflamed and pre-occupied with that very question.

The Hungarian nation is first and foremost a question of linguistic, ... there was a very prominent aristocrat in the early to mid-19th Century, Count Steven Szecsenyi who endeavored to bring Hungary into modernity from the backwater glorified status Hungary occupied before the rise of the dualist Hungarian-Austrian Empire. Szeczenyi launched a rapid modernization programme aimed at securing Hungarians' destinies as a viable, lasting modern unified nation in the Empire>

Szecsenyi famously proclaimed: "The nation lives in its mother tongue" - i.e. the Hungarian nation primarily is identified by language instead of customary ethnic descriptions.

Kuwati, Hungarians are a composite people in Europe who first and foremost indentify with their mother tongue. Every fibre, trace and ray of race in Europe is included in the Hungarian nation today, they are the most genetically intermingled people in Europe.

The great Mongol invasion of 1242 devestated Hungary and a large portion of Magyars were killed as Hungary stood as a central European bastion of Western Christendom against the onslaught of barbarian Mongol hodes. The Kingdom of Hungary was repopulated by Poles, Germans, Russians, Slavs, French, Italians during the second foundation of Hungary after the Mongols quit Hungary and the country was rebuilt.

Here's a video starring Franco Nero as Prince Arpad during the Hungarian Home Conquest of the Carpathian Basin -- the "Home Settlement".

bMrWyFea6Co

Hungary is still a proud equestrian nation in Europe after our 1,100 year settlement in Europe.

r0G9YYebhDQ

The conquering Hungarians come into Hungary in 896 A.D., a famous painting:

http://pelasta.hu/uploads/Feszty-korkep.jpg

The typical statements in this text: the corrupt West ruins the Magyars, since the western ideas are not compatible with the Hungarian reality.

Much Hungarian sees this now, mostly young persons. They did not see the old and strong West, only the decadent and corrupt West. Greens, gays, PC, self-hatred intellectuals, capitulations before the barbarians, colored gettos, immigrants everywhere, Cohn Bandits, etc. We did not join this West with a thousand years ago.

Blogen this is not an issue of Hungary but whole Central Europe I would say (with the exception of neo-liberal Czech Republic). Despite Slovaks are also less religious they keen on conservative view of the culture left by historical Kingdom of Hungary and the culture we share with other nations living there (mostly Croatians, You and Germans). Even more conservative are bigot Poles
So the general opinion in Slovakia is the same. What comes from West is disgusting threat to our culture and what comes from East is barbarous.

And when Greece fell down begging for a bailout the suspicion of corrupted and falling apart West took place also on political level which reflects the general mood of the population.

Nowday maybe there aren't a single person who totally Hungarian. I'm sure there aren't anyone..

During the centuries all kind of nations invade Hungary. Houndred thousands of germanic,slavic people arrived in every centuries. So all this Uralic origin thing is a bit incomprehensible.

We regard ourselves as simply Europeans.

True, you are the same mix as we are. With the only exception that your roots were first genetic Asiatic. And nowadays a mixture of slavic, germanic genetic roots. Same as we..

There is only lingual continuity, same as on our side. And on your side even more by Magyar language influenced by slavic languages, however also examples of clear Magyar language influence can be found in Slovak.

So the general opinion in Slovakia is the same. What comes from West is disgusting threat to our culture and what comes from East is barbarous.

No. This is the Hungarian version: What comes from West is disgusting threat to our culture and what comes from East is glorious.

Hungary withdraws from the West slowly. Orbán said it (http://index.hu/belfold/2010/11/05/orban_keleti_szel_fuj/): The West loses his benefit obtained under the industrial revolution. We sail under a western flag, but an east wind blows in the global economy. Hungary now the part of the Western civilization, but if we do not change, then we are shipwrecked (with the West). Hungary has to respond.

Probably this is the part of the answer:
Kazakhstan (and not Germany) was the Hungarian cultural undersecretary's first foreign country visit. (http://culture.hu/main.php?folderID=1319&articleID=303876&ctag=articlelist&iid=1)
Hungary signs railway deal with China (and not with Germany) in hope of long-term co-operation for the Hungarian railway modernisation (http://www.portfolio.hu/en/cikkek.tdp?feed=1&k=2&i=22108)
etc.

The new national orientation's caricature in the fallen proeuropean left's newspaper:

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7820/attmt.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/attmt.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
(Attention, you are leaving the European sector and entering the Asian sector!)

No. This is the Hungarian version: What comes from West is disgusting threat to our culture and what comes from East is glorious.

Hungary withdraws from the West slowly. Orbán said it (http://index.hu/belfold/2010/11/05/orban_keleti_szel_fuj/): The West loses his benefit obtained under the industrial revolution. We sail under a western flag, but an east wind blows in the global economy. Hungary now the part of the Western civilization, but if we do not change, then we are shipwrecked (with the West). Hungary has to respond.

Probably this is the part of the answer:
Kazakhstan (and not Germany) was the Hungarian cultural undersecretary's first foreign country visit. (http://culture.hu/main.php?folderID=1319&articleID=303876&ctag=articlelist&iid=1)
Hungary signs railway deal with China (and not with Germany) in hope of long-term co-operation for the Hungarian railway modernisation (http://www.portfolio.hu/en/cikkek.tdp?feed=1&k=2&i=22108)
etc.


what to say: then remember 1956...someone has to learn twice to become wise enough..
We and Czechs have very sceptical view on East and refusal point of view against West.

Fico also signed a draft for wide-rail construction proposal from UA- Kosice to Bratislava which was blew-off from the table by current government and criticized by whole Slovak community. And now we will make angry Brussels for the second time because refusal statement against Euro Rescue Fund is going to be passed in Parliament. Thus do not allow EU to update Treaty of the function of the European Union. In favour of banks...of course..

This is the Hungarian version: What comes from West is disgusting threat to our culture and what comes from East is glorious.

Which is another choice of being blind, of course.

All western countries used us as far, as it was cost effective - their new toys are now called India and China - production must be cheap, quality lost its importance. Now the first companies arrived to us at early 90's are closed and moved toward the Orient.

From this point of view i do not see any difference between "western" or chinese/russian capital. All wants great profit under law investion. This is business-logic.

what to say: then remember 1956...someone has to learn twice to become wise enough..

See, this is the difference between us! You are Slovak, you are European, only European. But, we are Hungarians, we are Eurasians, Asians in Europe, or Europeans and Asians, or Asian origin Europeans, etc. Asia means the horror to you, but the glorious past and future for us. Asia the evil in the European narrative, the Huns, Magyars, Mongols, Soviets and now the Chinese concurrency came from Asia. But look at the underlined text! We have choice. You are European everything else for you on nerve. But we know it that Asia is beautiful, developed and highly civilized, we came from there and our identity is dual. A cultural aversion does not keep us at a distance from Asia.

And Europe's protection and the protection of the European ideas was the largest mistake of our history. The most considerable examples:

1242 - Hungarian-Mongol war: the Mongols offer an alliance against Europe. We reject it. Our reward: the Austrians stab Hungary and my Cumanian allies in the back while we battle against the Mongolians. ~40% of the Hungarian population was murdered and 60% of the country was destroyed. Thanks Germans!

15-17th century - Turkish wars: Hungary defends against the Ottomans in the protection of the Christianity. We wait for the western help until two hundred years, 60% of the Hungarian population was murdered and 80% of the Country was destroyed. Thanks Europe!

1914-21 - First War against the Terror: Balkan terrorists murder our crown prince, we launch war against the state supporting the terrorists, against the Russian threat and we favour united Europe's plan (Mitteleuropa). But the peripherial coalition wins against the central powers and our country is shared out between Balkan folks. Thanks Western Europeans! (later the Little Entente was big help for the West against the Nazis. :lol:)

1939-45 - the western-Soviet compromises. Firstly the German-Soviet pact (MRP), secondly the British-Soviet pact (Jalta), and thirdly the partition of Europe. The peripheral powers secondly partitioned the continent, Hungary was a soviet colony. Thanks Germans, British and Americans!

1956 - the Hungarians rise up against the Bolshevik rule. The western radios promise help in case of a rebellion since years. But the help does not come. The Hungarian freedom fighters fight for the western freedom firmly, but the Soviet superiority wins. Budapest is ruined. Thanks America!

now - Hungary was freed, the soviet troops marched out, Hungary did democracy. But this is not the democracy of our dreams this is a semi-colonial status, this is the Franco-German alliance's continental power. If the Hungarian government shields the Hungarian interests, whole Western Europe (mostly Germany) turns against us. See the hysteria around the media law! Or the western hypocricy in the Hungarian minority rights. Thanks EU!

So the Hungarian western relation is arguable. Many good thing was, and there are many bad things in this relation. Superb culture and technology with many betrayals and letdown. Thanks for the Christianity, the Gothic, Renaissance and Baroque art and the industrial revolution, but now Europe already is empty. And China never reviled our homeland, China never partitioned Hungary, China are simply friendly, and not hostile and disgusting like the present West. And China will be the world's next superpower, so China better choice at anything what the today's West can offer.

See, this is the difference between us! You are Slovak, you are European, only European. But, we are Hungarians, we are Eurasians, Asians in Europe, or Europeans and Asians, or Asian origin Europeans, etc. Asia means the horror to you, but the glorious past and future for us. Asia the evil in the European narrative, the Huns, Magyars, Mongols, Soviets and now the Chinese concurrency came from Asia. But look at the underlined text! We have choice. You are European everything else for you on nerve. But we know it that Asia is beautiful, developed and highly civilized, we came from there and our identity is dual. A cultural aversion does not keep us at a distance from Asia.


You must be kidding :lol:

Which is another choice of being blind, of course.

All western countries used us as far, as it was cost effective - their new toys are now called India and China - production must be cheap, quality lost its importance. Now the first companies arrived to us at early 90's are closed and moved toward the Orient.

From this point of view i do not see any difference between "western" or chinese/russian capital. All wants great profit under law investion. This is business-logic.

Business as usual. But the cultural and political contacts now better with China than with Europe. We face a hostile and hopeless Europe, so...

You must be kidding :lol:

Te abba az öt százalékos budapesti értelmiségi balliberális politikai közösségbe tartozol, akik mindenáron bizonyítani akarják, leginkább saját maguknak, hogy ők milyen haladó európaiak vagy mik, akiknek ez ideológiai okból vicc. De már a legnagyobb megélhetési európai, szegény Bandita se nevet látod, csak szépen hazamegy és abbahagyja a haladást (http://index.hu/kulfold/2011/04/15/cohn-bendit_nem_indul_az_ep-valasztason/):

http://csepel.info/wp-content/uploads/daniel_cohn_bendit-%C3%A9s-az-lmp.jpg

Business as usual. But the cultural and political contacts now better with China than with Europe. We face a hostile and hopeless Europe, so...

We face a splitted Europe with strengthening problems caused by lack of MONEY, but it is Europe at least. And if this economic situation will change we may consider that their money is not so bad... see tenderimg for new trams and trolley cars.

Maybe China is not that true friend, but maybe has its own hidden plans as well. That is my fear. Wait and see. For China 1 year or 1 thousand years are the same.

Kicsit szelektíven válogatsz az elmúlt hónapokból nem blogen? Persze Orbán kijelentette, hogy nem kér a nyugatból, aztán meg megváltoztatta a médiatörvényt amikor kérték és egy olyan alkotmányt rityentettek, aminek konkrétan ez van az elején: "Büszkék vagyunk arra, hogy Szent István királyunk ezer évvel ezelőtt szilárd alapokra helyezte a magyar államot, és hazánkat a keresztény Európa részévé tette".

És tetszik nem tetszik: a legtöbb magyarnak semmit nem mondanak az ázsiai gyökerek. Egyébként meg nézd meg mire akar támaszkodni a politikai vezetés. Miből is akarjuk finanszirozni az új BKV járműveket, az új Ferenciek terét meg a csillió másik projektet? Ja hogy az EU pénzéből. Aki egyébként legnagyobb gazdasági partnerünk. Ez egy üres politikai maszlag volt, hogy Kelet felé fordulunk, amit már ők maguk azóta számtalanszor meg is hazudtoltak. Egyébként meg próbálhatunk kapaszkodni Kinába, de onnan mi már nem látszunk (az külön mókás, hogy szerinted jók a kulturális kapcsolatok... több ismerősöm is volt mostanában Kínában és mindannyian ugyanazt mondták vissza: a kínaiaknak halvány lila gőzük sincs, hogy mi az a Magyarország... ugy hogy Németországtól nem messze úgy már legalább be tudják lőni, hogy merre lehet, de ennyi). Ha ők valakivel komolyan üzletelni akarnak Európában akkor mi a lista alján leszünk.

Kicsit szelektíven válogatsz az elmúlt hónapokból nem blogen? Persze Orbán kijelentette, hogy nem kér a nyugatból, aztán meg megváltoztatta a médiatörvényt amikor kérték és egy olyan alkotmányt rityentettek, aminek konkrétan ez van az elején: "Büszkék vagyunk arra, hogy Szent István királyunk ezer évvel ezelőtt szilárd alapokra helyezte a magyar államot, és hazánkat a keresztény Európa részévé tette".

Ennek nem értem mi köze van a jelenhez? Persze, hogy büszkék vagyunk, ezer évvel ezelőtt az egy jó döntés volt. A médiatörvény vállalhatatlan kapituláció volt, ez igaz.

És tetszik nem tetszik: a legtöbb magyarnak semmit nem mondanak az ázsiai gyökerek.

Nem ez volt a lényeg. Hanem az, hogy nálunk van egy a társadalom által respektált történelmi tény az ázsiai származásunkról, ami miatt sokkal könnyebben nyitunk kelet felé, mint az Ázsiától szintén történelmi okok miatt elzárkózó európaiak.

Egyébként meg nézd meg mire akar támaszkodni a politikai vezetés. Miből is akarjuk finanszirozni az új BKV járműveket, az új Ferenciek terét meg a csillió másik projektet? Ja hogy az EU pénzéből. Aki egyébként legnagyobb gazdasági partnerünk. Ez egy üres politikai maszlag volt, hogy Kelet felé fordulunk, amit már ők maguk azóta számtalanszor meg is hazudtoltak.

Ehhez képest a magyar vasút komplett modernizációja már nem európai biznisz lesz. Szal a valóság az, hogy tettünk egy félfordulatot. Éspedig azért, mert egyelőre Európa a legfontosabb kereskedelmi partnerünk. De ez változik, méghozzá rohamléptékkel. Egyre több kínai mamut teszi európai székhelyét Magyarországra, legutóbb a világ második legnagyobb telekommunikációs gyártója, a Huawei tette második legfontosabb globális központjává (http://www.bitport.hu/trendek/huawei-2010-jelentes-magyarorszagi-ellatokozpont) Magyarországot, miközben a helyi termelést is ezerrel futtatja fel. (http://www.mfor.hu/cikkek/Magyarorszagon_erosit_a_Huawei.html)

Magyarországot Európa szeméttelepnek (http://www.origo.hu/uzletinegyed/20110421-az-eu-dontheti-el-valoban-silanyabb-aru-kerule-az-uj.html) és kizsákmányolható gyarmatnak nézi. Ettől a viszonytól szabadulni kell, nincs mit őrizgetni rajta.

Egyébként meg próbálhatunk kapaszkodni Kinába, de onnan mi már nem látszunk (az külön mókás, hogy szerinted jók a kulturális kapcsolatok... több ismerősöm is volt mostanában Kínában és mindannyian ugyanazt mondták vissza: a kínaiaknak halvány lila gőzük sincs, hogy mi az a Magyarország... ugy hogy Németországtól nem messze úgy már legalább be tudják lőni, hogy merre lehet, de ennyi). Ha ők valakivel komolyan üzletelni akarnak Európában akkor mi a lista alján leszünk.

Ezzel szemben a valóság, hogy a kínai tőke egyre nagyobb mértékben ömlik az országba. (http://www.gazdasag.hu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=355:dlhet-a-kinai-tke-magyarorszagra&catid=2:hirek&Itemid=57)

Te abba az öt százalékos budapesti értelmiségi balliberális politikai közösségbe tartozol, akik mindenáron bizonyítani akarják, leginkább saját maguknak, hogy ők milyen haladó európaiak vagy mik, akiknek ez ideológiai okból vicc. De már a legnagyobb megélhetési európai, szegény Bandita se nevet látod, csak szépen hazamegy és abbahagyja a haladást (http://index.hu/kulfold/2011/04/15/cohn-bendit_nem_indul_az_ep-valasztason/)

Blogen, it has nothing to do with being liberal or coming from Budapest. You are living in a theoryland. Nobody gives a flying f*ck about our Asian roots in Hungary. Common people dream about Western living standards. Your ideologies of separating Hungary from the rest of the European countries based on genetics is especially funny when it comes to Economy. Not a single sane Western country would miss the chance to have great connection with China, or any massively developing Asian country. Thinking that they would care and have better relations with us because of our Asian roots is just absurd.

Blogen, it has nothing to do with being liberal or coming from Budapest. You are living in a theoryland. Nobody gives a flying f*ck about our Asian roots in Hungary.

Yes, this is typical 5% socialliberal narrative from the Budapest downtown (mostly leftists intellectuals live here, ex SZDSZ voters, Bikes a typical hungarian exSZDSZ fan in this forum)

go to --> #2 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=75900963&postcount=2)
social-liberal minority: we are enlightened Europeans

Common people dream about Western living standards.

The peoples struggle for their job currently, they are not daydreaming about the western living standard already. After the catastrophic socialliberal eight year, here the problems are more fundamental. The question it: how do we produce the Czech living standard and not the German! And this is the answer:

"the country has to be competitive like China or Brasilia (and not Germany or France!)"says Orbán (http://www.mfor.hu/cikkek/Kinanal_is_versenykepesebb_orszagot_akar_Orban.html)

Wake up from your liberal dreams! The world was changed the Eastern states. Europe is not ideal anymore, a lots rather a deterrent example. And answer a question: Where do you live now?

Yes, thank you the hypocrisy from UAE! :D

És tetszik nem tetszik: a legtöbb magyarnak semmit nem mondanak az ázsiai gyökerek.

Nézz egy kicsit körül vidéken. Se szeri, se száma a keleti gyökereket felkaroló kultúrális programoknak (nomád táborok, lovasíjászat, kézműves táborok, ilyen-olyan sámántalálkozók, rovásírás-táborok és versenyek, keleti jellegű gasztronómiai fesztiválok, keleti harcászati bemutatók és ezek eszközeinek vására, magyar őstörténeti előadások stb.). A fiatalok közt reneszánszát élik ezek manapság. A szülők örömmel adják ilyen nyári táborokba a gyermeküket. Csak ezek szerint az ilyen hírek nem érnek el a pesti belvárosba.

Egyébként már a katolikus egyház is felfigyelt a jelenségre. Egyre inkább aggódva nézik a természeti vallások (sámánizmus) térhódítását.

Hódít az ezt tárgyaló irodalom is. Bőven megél az erre épülő könyvesbolthálózat, valamint az ilyen tematikájú egyéb üzletek. Ha belegondolsz ez még 15 éve sem volt így. Ha a trend folytatódik, egyenrangúvá válik a hivatalos kultúrával.

Yes, this is typical 5% socialliberal narrative from the Budapest downtown (mostly leftists intellectuals live here, ex SZDSZ voters, Bikes a typical hungarian exSZDSZ fan in this forum)

go to -->



The peoples struggle for their job currently, they are not daydreaming about the western living standard already. After the catastrophic socialliberal eight year, here the problems are more fundamental. The question it: how do we produce the Czech living standard and not the German! And this is the answer:

"the country has to be competitive like China or Brasilia (and not Germany or France!)"says Orbán (http://www.mfor.hu/cikkek/Kinanal_is_versenykepesebb_orszagot_akar_Orban.html)

Wake up from your liberal dreams! The world was changed the Eastern states. Europe is not ideal anymore, a lots rather a deterrent example. And answer a question: Where do you live now?

Yes, thank you the hypocrisy from UAE! :D

Blogen, not matter how much you use the liberal card, it doesn't justify such stupidities like we have any advantage over other European countries to build better relations with the East because of our roots.
It's easy to be "competitive like China or Brasilia" when you are not on par with countries like Germany or France (-> growth potential). There is no contradiction in having the competitiveness of an Asian country and dreaming of general high standard of living as in Germany.
How is Europe not ideal? How are the most developed countries with the highest living standards not ideal?
Not sure what you mean by the UAE, I'm still living in Budapest for a little while...

Ban Bank, persze ezek a dolgok lekötik a gyerekeket, nekem is volt részem benne. Akit viszont felnőttként is érdekel ezek közül bármelyik, azt egy kezemen meg tudom számolni. A média ugrik a létező igények kielégítésére, bár nem nézek tévét, de nem hallottam, hogy ezek a témák annyira dívnának. Ez lehet a kultúra (kis) része, de nem leszünk ettől még ázsiaiak.

Nézz egy kicsit körül vidéken. Se szeri, se száma a keleti gyökereket felkaroló kultúrális programoknak (nomád táborok, lovasíjászat, kézműves táborok, ilyen-olyan sámántalálkozók, rovásírás-táborok és versenyek, keleti jellegű gasztronómiai fesztiválok, keleti harcászati bemutatók és ezek eszközeinek vására, magyar őstörténeti előadások stb.). A fiatalok közt reneszánszát élik ezek manapság. A szülők örömmel adják ilyen nyári táborokba a gyermeküket. Csak ezek szerint az ilyen hírek nem érnek el a pesti belvárosba.

Egyébként már a katolikus egyház is felfigyelt a jelenségre. Egyre inkább aggódva nézik a természeti vallások (sámánizmus) térhódítását.

Hódít az ezt tárgyaló irodalom is. Bőven megél az erre épülő könyvesbolthálózat, valamint az ilyen tematikájú egyéb üzletek. Ha belegondolsz ez még 15 éve sem volt így. Ha a trend folytatódik, egyenrangúvá válik a hivatalos kultúrával.

Vidéken élek, vidéken él a legtöbb rokonom (Magyarországon + Erdélyben) és pont abból látom, hogy ha el is mennek egy táborba nyilazni, totál nem érzik magukat ázsiainak vagy ázsiai gyökerűnek. A legtöbb embernek ez egyszerüen semmit nem mond. A felnőttek körében van ilyen szubkultúra persze. Ahogy vannak Star Wars rajongók, meg x ezer másféle rajongó akik megveszik a témájukhoz vonatkozó könyveket, meg beöltöznek meg hasonlók, de ha az ember picit körbe néz akkor látja hogy ezzel a túlnyomó többség egyáltalán nem foglalkozik (megjegyzem pont ugy ahogy az egyházzal sem... nemcsak Budapesten de a vidéki városokban is 60 fölötti a templomba járók átlagéletkora... van mire parázniuk... a hozzánk hasonló kis falvakban mennek ugyan még más korosztályokból is, de nem nehéz észrevenni merre mutatnak a trendek)

Blogen, not matter how much you use the liberal card, it doesn't justify such stupidities like we have any advantage over other European countries to build better relations with the East because of our roots.
It's easy to be "competitive like China or Brasilia" when you are not on par with countries like Germany or France (-> growth potential). There is no contradiction in having the competitiveness of an Asian country and dreaming of general high standard of living as in Germany.
How is Europe not ideal? How are the most developed countries with the highest living standards not ideal?

This is already the past (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/6169731/Poverty-is-not-the-only-thing-poor-children-suffer-from.html). West = ghettos, immigrants, gypsy camps, crime, etc. In Budapest is bigger the public safety than in Paris, etc.

No thanks! :ohno:

Not sure what you mean by the UAE, I'm still living in Budapest for a little while...

Ok. you emigrated into a prospering eastern city mostly, and you praise the West from there!

Hello East:
http://zoldtechnologia.hu/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/burj_dubai_b.jpg

Bye-bye West:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_sUbe2EGhgqM/TUbm5xXM3rI/AAAAAAAAB7Y/jqiOCkOvKbY/s1600/i_banlieu_en_feu-2.jpg

Vidéken élek, vidéken él a legtöbb rokonom (Magyarországon + Erdélyben) és pont abból látom, hogy ha el is mennek egy táborba nyilazni, totál nem érzik magukat ázsiainak vagy ázsiai gyökerűnek.[/U]

Ez a mondat értelmetlen. Azt állítod, hogy ha ápolják az ázsiai szokásainkat, akkor nem érzik magukat ázsiai gyökerűnek. :lol:

Prospering? It's a place where you can get to jail for kissing your partner, hug your family in public. Internet is censored, you are not allowed to criticize the government. You can get tortured if you mess with the royalties (and they get away with it 100%) - I'm sure you are fine with this, but most Hungarians would call it insane. If you mean the economic side, then I'm sure you have heard about the $10 billion Dubai bailout and the current state of real estate. Boom to crash, and now they would only wanted slow but constant growth.

"West = ghettos, immigrants, gypsy camps, crime, etc."
Denmark? Norway? Switzerland? If you want long, safe life with high living standards, it's hard to say many better options than West-European countries (for you Pyongyang is still amazing - nice and clean, no gypsies, not ghettos, no crime).
Paris has a population of 10 million. It's hard to say any city with a size like that without ghettos and parts with high crime rate.

Funny how UAE is a positive example to you, a place which is being built by millions of immigrants and guest workers.

Ez a mondat értelmetlen. Azt állítod, hogy ha ápolják az ázsiai szokásainkat, akkor nem érzik magukat ázsiai gyökerűnek. :lol:

De hát épp ezaz: a gyerekek egyáltalán nem gondolják, hogy az ijjazás vagy bármi amit itt csinálnak az egy ázsiai szokás. Régen ezt csinálták és ennyi. Ráadásul ezután hasonló vehemenciával és szivesen játszanak cowboyosat, lovagosat vagy űrhajósat. Ők nem tulajdonitanak neki akkora jelentőséget mint te.

Prospering? It's a place where you can get to jail for kissing your partner, hug your family in public. Internet is censored, you are not allowed to criticize the government. You can get tortured if you mess with the royalties (and they get away with it 100%) - I'm sure you are fine with this, but most Hungarians would call it insane. If you mean the economic side, then I'm sure you have heard about the $10 billion Dubai bailout and the current state of real estate. Boom to crash, and now they would only wanted slow but constant growth.

Oh, poor Bikes! But why do you live on a so terrible place? :nuts:

"West = ghettos, immigrants, gypsy camps, crime, etc."
Denmark? Norway?

Scandinavia is the rape region of Europe: (http://www.thelocal.se/19102/20090427/)

Sweden: 46/100 000 person
Norway: 12/100 000 person
Denmark: 9/100 000 person

vs.

Civilized Europe:
Poland: 6/100 000 person
Hungary: 5/100 000 person
Czech rep: 4/100 000 person

Switzerland?

Switzerland is good. But the swiss confederacy is a white crow in Europe. This is a highly militarized, very chauvinistic nation.

If you want long, safe life with high living standards, it's hard to say many better options than West-European countries (for you Pyongyang is still amazing - nice and clean, no gypsies, not ghettos, no crime).
Paris has a population of 10 million. It's hard to say any city with a size like that without ghettos and parts with high crime rate.

Interesting, but there are not ghettos (=quarter infected with a crime) in the South Korean, Japanese, or Chinese (except HK) cities. Maybe the liberalism is the difference. No liberalism in the SK, Jap and Chinese cities! :banana:

Funny how UAE is a positive example to you, a place which is being built by millions of immigrants and guest workers.

They build and they do not live on public aids and make crime in their spare time. :bash:

De hát épp ezaz: a gyerekek egyáltalán nem gondolják, hogy az ijjazás vagy bármi amit itt csinálnak az egy ázsiai szokás. Régen ezt csinálták és ennyi. Ráadásul ezután hasonló vehemenciával és szivesen játszanak cowboyosat, lovagosat vagy űrhajósat. Ők nem tulajdonitanak neki akkora jelentőséget mint te.

Nem, á nem. Ki gondolná, hogy az, ugyan milyen összefüggés lenne! Játszanak focilabdával is, de nem gondolják, hogy gömbölyű, hiszen kockázni is szoktak. :cheers:

Nem, á nem. Ki gondolná, hogy az, ugyan milyen összefüggés lenne! Játszanak focilabdával is, de nem gondolják, hogy gömbölyű, hiszen kockázni is szoktak. :cheers:

Nyilazni nem csak keleten szoktak, ennyi a trükk. Ami pedig tényleg ázsiai kultúra -mondjuk egy jóféle karate tábor; magam is mentem ilyenre éveken keresztül- az meg már rohadtul nem érzik ugy hogy a saját kultúránk lenne vagy ilyesmi :cheers:

(egyébként tök jó, hogy a nyugat bukásáról szoló diskurzus is angolul megy... :))

Nyilazni nem csak keleten szoktak, ennyi a trükk. Ami pedig tényleg ázsiai kultúra -mondjuk egy jóféle karate tábor; magam is mentem ilyenre éveken keresztül- az meg már rohadtul nem érzik ugy hogy a saját kultúránk lenne vagy ilyesmi :cheers:

(egyébként tök jó, hogy a nyugat bukásáról szoló diskurzus is angolul megy... :))

Mit gondolsz azok a szülők, akik beadják a gyerekeiket liberális világpolgárok? Nem, hanem egyszerű magyarok, akik a nemzeti hagyományok és a történelmi kultúra ápolását várják ettől a tábortól, és nem a nyugati kultúráét, mert akkor keresztény táborba küldenék, olyan is van ugyanis. Ne próbálj egy olyan képet vetíteni, hogy a drága szülők feldobnak egy pénzérmét, hogy a Szivárvány Szabadelvű Kör Kis Rózsaszín Masírozók táborába, vagy a Rovásírásos Hátrafelé Nyilazó Görbelábúak Sámántáborába küldjék e a gyerekeket!

Oh, poor Bikes! But why do you live on a so terrible place? :nuts:

I don't!!!



Scandinavia is the rape region of Europe: (http://www.thelocal.se/19102/20090427/)

Sweden: 46/100 000 person
Norway: 12/100 000 person
Denmark: 9/100 000 person

vs.

Civilized Europe:
Poland: 6/100 000 person
Hungary: 5/100 000 person
Czech rep: 4/100 000 person

That is, if the data is correct, which is not. Hungary is a country where a mass-raped girl cannot win her case against the police.



Switzerland is good. But the swiss confederacy is a white crow in Europe. This is a highly militarized, very chauvinistic nation.

Yes, soo veery chauvinistic, it's hard to live there :D


Interesting, but there are not ghettos (=quarter infected with a crime) in the South Korean, Japanese, or Chinese (except HK) cities. Maybe the liberalism is the difference. No liberalism in the SK, Jap and Chinese cities! :banana:

South Korea and Japan are quite liberal countries, but feel free to name large cities without slums. I'm very curious.

Mit gondolsz azok a szülők, akik beadják a gyerekeiket liberális világpolgárok? Nem, hanem egyszerű magyarok, akik a nemzeti hagyományok és a történelmi kultúra ápolását várják ettől a tábortól, és nem a nyugati kultúráét, mert akkor keresztény táborba küldenék, olyan is van ugyanis. Ne próbálj egy olyan képet vetíteni, hogy a drága szülők feldobnak egy pénzérmét, hogy a Szivárvány Szabadelvű Kör Kis Rózsaszín Masírozók táborába, vagy a Rovásírásos Hátrafelé Nyilazó Görbelábúak Sámántáborába küldjék e a gyerekeket!

A szülők leszarják, az iskola meg a szakkörök ajánlanak a kölyköknek táborokat, aztán ők meg a szülők felé könyörögnek, hogy mi az ami éppen szimpatikus neki, vagy ahova Józsi és Mari is mennek.

That is, if the data is correct, which is not. Hungary is a country where a mass-raped girl cannot win her case against the police.

All of the data is official statistics. (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita)

Yes, soo veery chauvinistic, it's hard to live there :D

The kindly Swiss smile at all clients, but they are the chiefs. The immigrant is second-class citizen in Switzerland, because the Swisss do not tolerate the equality. For example in the religion freedom. What is legitimate for Christians, is not legitimate for Muslims.

South Korea and Japan are quite liberal countries

What! Hell yeah! Bocs Bikes, de azokról a japánokról beszélsz, akik azért futtatják a robotikát, mert állatoknak tekintik a nem japán ázsiaiakat és ez az egyetlen módja, hogy lemondhassanak a bevándorlókról és azokról a koreaiakról, akikhez képest a milosevicsi szerbek elfajult buzik voltak, mert olyan szintű náluk a hímsovén erőszak militarista kultusza. Ez két olyan nemzet, ahol az egyéniség fogalmát nem is ismerik, csak a külföldiek iránti udvariasságból van rá egyáltalán szavuk! A japán Liberális Demokrata párt, pedig egy olyan nacionalista és konzervatív frakciókból összeálló állampárt, amire több generáció óta engedelmesen szavaznak a japánok, mert fel se merül bennük 2009-ig, hogy a demokrácia parlamenti váltógazdaságot vagy eltérő véleményeket és más hülyeségeket jelentene.

A szülők leszarják, az iskola meg a szakkörök ajánlanak a kölyköknek táborokat, aztán ők meg a szülők felé könyörögnek, hogy mi az ami éppen szimpatikus neki, vagy ahova Józsi és Mari is mennek.

A liberális szülők lehet a szabaelvű gyereknevelés szabálytalansága alapján, de a felelős szülők megnézik hova adják a gyerekeiket és legfőképp miért, mert van ez az elavult provinciális szokásuk, hogy gyereknevelés, ami magába foglalja a gyerek által elsajátítandó információk szülők által megszabott halmazát is.

^^ Any form of future forecasts is not more serious then saying the next week lottery numbers or getting an exact direction in climate change forecasts in advance.

Europe is not infiltrated so deeply as Blogen tries to show, there are huge rural areas in all western countries, where life is showing its really pleasant face. Who cares about the New York ghettos and slums when living in Oregon, and who cares about the moslims of the Ruhr-region when living in Oberammergau...

At the other hand the economic development of China is simply overheated and costs millions of lifes, while serving mostly very rich investors from the western hemisphere... but who cares about lives, if profit is suspected.

The Hungarian people have a strange language. It is partially of turc and protoslavic, partially of ugrian, partially of unknown origin. Language is however only one factor, genetics is another one. Genetically we are mostly dinaridan people with some (in some parts of the country significant) asian genom part.

Socially we are without any doubt europeans and christians. Being at weekend an arrow-horseman is a beautiful hobby, like fox-hunting in Britain, but nothing more. When sending kids to summer holidays it is of course more interresting for a kid to play warrior and living in a jurt, than going to computer camp and living in normal rooms. Youth and adventure belong together, it is evidence. Earlier an indian camp was an alternative to a pioneer camp, by the way those pioneer camps were not that bad at all, as far as i remember the girls :lol:

So i do not believe a word from the fall of Europe and the rise of Asia. This is simple economic matter and a political dream of a single person will not influence, that the balance changes from time to time. Hungary may search and build economic connection towards China, but will never be able to cut the ropes to Europe which is present in our forgardens.

BTW from 1st of May 2011 the German and Austrian work is completely open for Hungarians. That is where we naturally belong. I do not know, how much Hungarians work in China, but do hardly estimate a large number...

Lol @ partly unknown. Azért ez nem sámli, hogy a nyelvünk egy nagy részéről nem tudjuk, honnan jött. Lehet Ferminek van igaza?

Vidéken élek, vidéken él a legtöbb rokonom (Magyarországon + Erdélyben) és pont abból látom, hogy ha el is mennek egy táborba nyilazni, totál nem érzik magukat ázsiainak vagy ázsiai gyökerűnek.

Nézd, én sem érzem magam ázsiainak, de Ázsiához is kötődöm, nemcsak Európához. Erre persze büszke is vagyok.

Nem lehet letagadni ázsiai, ha úgy tetszik turáni múltunkat. Ez ma is velünk él.
- Csak a népzenénket említem. Totálisan különbözik bármely európai nép zenéjétől, beleértve a finnugorokat is. Ez bizony turáni zene. Cáfolni felesleges.
- Vagy vegyük a népművészeti motívumokat. Turáni motívum szinte mind.
- Népmesei elemek... Van, ami nem keletről származik?
- Eredetmondáink, származástudat... Abszolút kelet.
- Vegyünk valami modernebbet! Építészet a XIX-XX. században. A magyar szecesszió egyik jellegzetessége az orientalizmus, ezzel egyértelműen elüt az európaitól, éppen ezért sajátosan magyar.

Egy személyes példát is hadd mondjak. Engem mindig jobban érdekeltek a Közép-Ázsiáról szóló ismeretterjesztő filmek. A sztyeppei népek kultúrája számomra izgalmasabb, mint egy francia katedrális építéséről szóló film. Kéretik a Duna TV-t nézni, ott gyakran vetítenek ilyesmit, még kazah és azeri estre is emlékszem.
Maguk a sztyeppei emberek is őszintébbnek tűnnek nekem. Soha nem éreztem őszinte érdeklődésnek, amikor valamilyen nyugat-európai kíváncsiskodott felőlünk, inkább csak az érdek vagy a kötelező udvariasság érződött, míg egy kazahtól például valódi ölelést kapsz. Ez személyes tapasztalatom (sajnos nem Kazahsztánban :D).

Még valami...
Érdekes, hogy ázsiai eredetünket keleten jobban számon tartják. Néhány példa:
- Egyszer mutattak egy magyar expedíció által készített filmet az ujgúrokról. Egy idős bácsika mondta benne: „Önök magyarok messze távolra kerültek tőlünk, ha úgy gondolják nyugodtan visszajöhetnek, van itt hely mindkettőnk számára.” (Mikor fogsz hasonló baráti üzenetet hallani „kedves” szomszédainktól?)
- Kirgizisztánban ma is tanítanak egy népmesét az ottani általános iskolákban, amely elmeséli, hogy valamikor nagyon régen mi magyarok és ők, kirgízek együtt vadásztunk a Jenyiszej alsó folyásánál. Majd mi messze nyugatra, ők pedig délnyugatra vándoroltak a mai hazájukba.
- Kínában az általános iskolában kötelező memoriter Petőfi Sándor Szabadság, szerelem! című verse. Gondoljunk bele, 1 milliárd ember ismeri!!!
- Japánban úgy tartják, hogy valamikor Mandzsúriában a távoli múltban szomszédos népek voltunk. Ma a Kodály-módszer szerint oktatják a japán gyerekeket zenére. Egyik ismert népdalunkat (ugyan japán szöveggel) megtanítják nekik. Ha jól tudom, ez a népdal teljesen megegyezik egy ujgúr népdallal is dallamában, csak szövegében térnek el.

^^ A népzenei és nyelvtani (ami nem egyenlő a közvetlen nyelvi kapoccsal!) kötődés nem vitatható. A turáni eredet kérdése azonban erősen vitatott. Magam sem elutasítani, sem elfogadni nem tudom saját kútfőből a hipotézist, de utána fogok nézni.

Kezdetnek egy 1925-ös vélemény, Schmidt József tollából (http://epa.oszk.hu/00000/00022/00382/11720.htm). A szöveg alapján ő nem lehetett a turanizmus nagy barátja :lol: .

Tudtok megbízható forrásokat a turáni eredet mellett? Bármely honlap érdekel, a kurucinfon van néhány érdekes link, az a baj, hogy a források kicsit körbehivatkoznak egymásra.

^^

1. Területileg Turánból érkeztünk, az ázsiai őshaza Turán északi részén található.
2. A honfoglalók embertanilag a turáni ősárja Andronovói kultúrára visszavezethető uráli vagy andronovói típusba tartoztak, akárcsak ókori szomszédaink a szarmaták.
3. Kulturálisan a turáni eredetű török kultúra is nagy hatást gyakorolt ránk, a honfoglalók esetében domináns volt.
4. A nyelvünk a turáni nyelvek (török, mongol, (finn-)ugor, mandzsu nyelvek közé tartozik)

Természetesen a pántörök etnikai turanizmusról szó sincs, de a magyar kulturális turanizmusról igen.

Természetesen a pántörök etnikai turanizmusról szó sincs, de a magyar kulturális turanizmusról igen.

Így van. Engem mindig megdöbbent, hogy egyesek mindig etnikai turanizmusban gondolkodnak, holott valójában erről szó sincs. Kizárólag kulturális kapcsolatról van szó.
Bár egyes honfoglaló törzsek, vagy legalábbis a vezető réteg türk származásáról nem lehet kétségünk. Talán még az Árpádok esetében sem. De ez már sikamlós terep. :D

Személy szerint én nagyon sajnálom, hogy az avarok nyelvéről vajmi keveset tudunk, úgy vélem sok meglepetést tartogatna számunkra. De jó, ez már totál más téma... :)

You must be kidding :lol:

He certainly has to :)

I am still surprised how this turanic-asian continuity is still in presence in Hungary, in the same country where there is a complete lack of any cultural continuity from the pre-settling times. Nowadays Magyars have very far from their genetic ancestors though they are glorified on Hosok Ter.

Magyars are the are the same mix as we are. Mix of Germans, Slavs and Jews. Surnames like Tóth or Horváth being one of the most frequent in Hungary are great proofs of this.
Even the language is not genuine one as it was deeply influenced by slavic, germanic and latin languages, though origins of the language and it´s basics is still different from Indo-European branch.

Might be that origin of Old Magyars is somewhere from Khanti-Mansi region (as it is supposed to be), but that is only and issue dealing with origin of language. Culture is by far different and fully European deeply influenced by Slavic customs.

^^ Plenty of Slovaks are singing folk-songs like it would be theirs. And it is ours, it is pentatonic. Or maybe it belongs to both of us, because You do not have less hungarian blood in Your family trees, then we have, only much more on your ground. Most Slovakians have at least one Hungarian granma or granpa or cousins. Bilingualism was absolute natural in the medieval Hungary, at least latin was spoken as second language by clerks, citoyens and nobles.

The panslavism is a strong idea, it is good feeling, i guess, to have an older brother, who protects You, tiny Slovaks, like Russia or Czechia. You had luck with the big brother, yeah... protection for 50 years. :lol: at least You could directly understand the commands...

We face a splitted Europe with strengthening problems caused by lack of MONEY, but it is Europe at least. And if this economic situation will change we may consider that their money is not so bad... see tenderimg for new trams and trolley cars.

Maybe China is not that true friend, but maybe has its own hidden plans as well. That is my fear. Wait and see. For China 1 year or 1 thousand years are the same.

Europe is agonized in socialistic corruption, desperate natality and lack of morality. It is not only a question of money but mainly customs which had changed dramatically since Europe got used into immigration from outside enjoying it´s own wealth after WW2. What happened that time reflects nowadays in a trend leading to a complete catastrophe. It is not only a question of a unity of Europe (which since fall of Roman Empire was never a fact) but mainly a way of life in Europe. And now I am speaking mainly about Western Europe with it´s life on a debt that became a custom throughout years supported by immigrants.
Once I have read a very good article in a Slovak magazine .týždeň (.week) where it was shown "expressis verbis" how the life in Western Europe looked like for decades. Almost 70 years the Western Europeans were born into a paradise where the state told them "You don´t have any responsibility, if you are unemployed the good father state will take care of you, if you need house the good father state will support you to have one, you can study as much as you want, because good father state will guide your study with a reasonable financial help" And so on. This of course cost a horrible amount of money. And when the good father state found out that this system is unsustainable it wanted to adopt some reforms. But what happened..people got used to on this life such deeply that any reform did not encounter understanding and so major strikes and demonstrations appeared. So the good father state had keep it´s mouth shut up. It was only a matter of time. And the first example was Greece and others are following. With growing influence of Islam the Old Europe is condemned to death (crucify me if you want).
The same example is a "social welfare" state called United States of America. By far the most irresponsible state ever leading this world.

Chinese know two skills and they know quite well: How to spare and how to copy. And in distinction from USA they are readable. I still remember an interview with ordinary Americans questioned on streets of American cities about other possible enemies of America. Names like Italy and Germany was nothing to be surprised of in this interview. Quite a threat for Europe knowing how simple American crowd is.
China is readable however it does sound very naive, but it is. They don´t want military annexation or any regime placement, they want business. So they know quite well how do adapt in 21st century..And if they know how to make business better than Europe, which wanted us in a project called EU only because of a cheap workforce and new markets then f... it all and the whole Europe..

See this
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0963807/
nothing in connection with a possible conspirations, just a naked horrible facts..

yeah Windblower btw: Finally I found our old discussion, about Slovaks and Magyars so I will reply in PM :) I apologize for leaving you without response such a long time.

^^ Plenty of Slovaks are singing folk-songs like it would be theirs. And it is ours, it is pentatonic. Or maybe it belongs to both of us, because You do not have less hungarian blood in Your family trees, then we have, only much more on your ground. Most Slovakians have at least one Hungarian granma or granpa or cousins. Bilingualism was absolute natural in the medieval Hungary, at least latin was spoken as second language by clerks, citoyens and nobles.

Nothing to disagree on..
We are not pretending to be something special as in our eyes you are pretending.

The panslavism is a strong idea, it is good feeling, i guess, to have an older brother, who protects You, tiny Slovaks, like Russia or Czechia. You had luck with the big brother, yeah... protection for 50 years. :lol: at least You could directly understand the commands...

Believe or not, Slovaks and Czechs were only abusing this idea and never supported it in reality. We have very cold attitude to this idea. Slovaks generally are very ignorant nation. If it comes to our neighbours we are familiar only with Czechs. Quite a shame I would say...
And if we are tiny or not (and be sure that we are a shit of Europe and we know it :) ), we still think to be a belly of Europe. And we have still such rudeness to say that "No we won´t give any money to lazy Greece" or to say "No Moscow, we won´t support wide-rail project". Maybe it is a very short-blinded attitude.

And as for the ironical part of your comment dear Windblower some history. After WW2 there were elections in both countries, Slovakia and Czech countries. In Slovakia the result was desperate for communists, DS (Democratic Party) was given 64% of the votes. Communists around 30%. But because in Czech countries communists won and the country was leaded by brutal pragocentrism (which was disadvantage not only to Slovakia) we had to bow down and accept communistic dictate. But Velvet Revolution started in Bratislava and year before it Candle Demonstration took place. Brutally surpressed by the government.

I did not want to offend You. It is the shame of our system that we invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968.

All other points are more relevant. For example, probably we had some slavic influence, but less than expected. For example our word Péntek (Patek) comes much more directly from the Greek (Penta = Pat' = Öt) then from slavic, just like our word Szombat comes much more directly from the hebreish Sabbath then from the slavic Subota. And this name of Saturday is in relation with our word Free = Szabad, as in the traditional calendar (before Christianity) Zabbath was the free (Szabad) day of the week. Now, we are here since at least 1100 years and we got that day-names from the Greeks and Jews we met first here in the Carpathian Lowlands. Interesting... Plenty of slavic words are from the Bulgarians from some 2500 ago...

I would be really interested, how old are the first proven slavic words. It seems, that german and slavic has common roots (Sun - sonne - solnce, Mother - Mutter - Mat", Son - Sohn - sin) and teherfore the independent slavic is a relatively new language (2-3 thousand years old?).

How did this crazy nonsensical thread get started in the Romanian forum? :bash: I think this thread should be moved home, to Hungary.

Thank you. :cheers:

I did not want to offend You. It is the shame of our system that we invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968.

Kadár was the only official to warn Dubcek before invasion, so all is ok. You had to take place, because of Moscow...


All other points are more relevant. For example, probably we had some slavic influence, but less than expected. For example our word Péntek (Patek) comes much more directly from the Greek (Penta = Pat' = Öt) then from slavic, just like our word Szombat comes much more directly from the hebreish Sabbath then from the slavic Subota. And this name of Saturday is in relation with our word Free = Szabad, as in the traditional calendar (before Christianity) Zabbath was the free (Szabad) day of the week. Now, we are here since at least 1100 years and we got that day-names from the Greeks and Jews we met first here in the Carpathian Lowlands. Interesting... Plenty of slavic words are from the Bulgarians from some 2500 ago...

Might be.., we are not studying influence of our language on your language that much. However I have Magyar friend studying linguistic in Budapest who told me that more than 5000 word in your language has clear slovak/slavic basics. He named me examples like deszka, udvar, király, csutortok, péntek, (might that you have truth, I am not familiar with it), utca, oszlop, pénz, szoknya, kulcs, hiba, tancólni, kovács, molnár, kacsa, gomba, uborka, abrosz, zsemle, szalonna, káposzta and many others who I do not remember. He also spoke something about great influence of Eastern-Slovak language (literally a different language) on Magyar in words like macsala, Karácsony, pokróc, kaláka etc.

But there are also some notable words in Slovak language influenced by Magyar one like: čerešne, baňa, gazda, oldomáš, oblok, pohár etc. This are mostly used in archaic Slovak, but some like baňa, čerešne, mačka also in nowadays Slovak.

I would be really interested, how old are the first proven slavic words. It seems, that german and slavic has common roots (Sun - sonne - solnce, Mother - Mutter - Mat", Son - Sohn - sin) and teherfore the independent slavic is a relatively new language (2-3 thousand years old?).

The first written statement was found to be in slovenian language (however there are some debates if this document is not written in slovien language which is a predecessor of Slovak language, but Slovenians claims so).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freising_Manuscripts
They might have origin probably from Great Moravia which also occupied Carinthia that time as part of origin was written in glagolitic script.

How did this crazy nonsensical thread get started in the Romanian forum? :bash: I think this thread should be moved home, to Hungary.

Thank you. :cheers:

This is the hungarian forum.

Plenty of slavic words are from the Bulgarians from some 2500 ago...

From the Turkic Bulgars? :D

...more than 5000 word in your language has clear slovak/slavic basics. He named me examples like deszka, udvar, király, csutortok, péntek, (might that you have truth, I am not familiar with it), utca, oszlop, pénz, szoknya, kulcs, hiba, tancólni, kovács, molnár, kacsa, gomba, uborka, abrosz, zsemle, szalonna, káposzta and many others who I do not remember. He also spoke something about great influence of Eastern-Slovak language (literally a different language) on Magyar in words like macsala, Karácsony, pokróc, kaláka etc.

Four in slovakian is štyri (négy). Csütörtök is equivalent to Stvrtok but sounds much more originating from old russian word Четверг (fourth day) then after the slovakian Štvrtok, which sounds much more similar to the hungarian pronounciation then to the old slavic. However i do not exclude the possibility. BTW have protoslavs been orthodoxes? How and when did they become roman catholics? Cyrill and Method were both orthodox priests...

What the heck means macsala? I have never heard this word before and do not understand it ...

But there are also some notable words in Slovak language influenced by Magyar one like: čerešne, baňa, gazda, oldomáš, oblok, pohár etc. This are mostly used in archaic Slovak, but some like baňa, čerešne, mačka also in nowadays Slovak.

No doubt about this, dear Ubertino.

The first written statement was found to be in slovenian language (however there are some debates if this document is not written in slovien language which is a predecessor of Slovak language, but Slovenians claims so). They might have origin probably from Great Moravia which also occupied Carinthia that time as part of origin was written in glagolitic script.

Well, written slavic and hungarian are about the same age then, since first hungarian written latin letter sentences are in the Founding Letter of the Tihany Abbey (BTW Tihany is from the slavic word tychy = csendes) from 1055, but some runic written hungarian sentences are known already from the 5th(!) - to the 8th century - not counting the older ones, because they are scientifically not proved.
Late avar runic script (http://hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=F%C3%A1jl:Szarvasi_k%C3%A9s%C5%91_avar_kori_csont_t%C5%B1tart%C3%B3.jpg&filetimestamp=20081201025138)

I was much more wondering about the history of the spoken slavic language, from which time do we have evidences about slavic-speaking peoples? At the fall of Rome they have not been in Middle-Europe yet (they were recorded by Plinius on the same area where we were that time) and suddenly (within 3 centuries) they were there? Maybe they came with avars, at around the 6th century? There are evidences about the avar-hungarian continuity, much more then about the continuity between huns and magyars...

Four in slovakian is štyri (négy). Csütörtök is equivalent to Stvrtok but sounds much more originating from old russian word Четверг (fourth day) then after the slovakian Štvrtok, which sounds much more similar to the hungarian pronounciation then to the old slavic. However i do not exclude the possibility. BTW have protoslavs been orthodoxes? How and when did they become roman catholics? Cyrill and Method were both orthodox priests...


Cyril and Method were south-Slavic (possibly Bulgarians) living in Solún (Slovak name for Thessalonike) and as such they were orthodoxy, but they came to catholized Great Moravia. You have to understand that Moravia Magna had been using catholic liturgy because of the Frankish Influence as it´s main rival was Eastern Frankish Empire which had some ambition to convert and culturally annex Moravia Magna through it´s priests spreading liturgy here. The problem was with different language which was latin and therefore foreign to the people. Cyril and Method did not came to change the religion (or better Church) of Sloviens but to translate latin liturgy to our language and in addition to create glagolitic script (later transformed by succesors of Constantinus (previous name of Cyril) to current Azbuka (in Bulgaria still called Cyrilic alphabet).
And after some diplomatic struggling and Method´s journey to Rome, the slovien liturgy was officialy recognized as one of the 3 in Europe by pope Hadrianus II.
Sloviens (Slovaks) remain Catholics, until Magyars came. It is truth that King Stephen I. the Saint was a Catholic but later orientation of Slovaks and Magyars became clearly lutheranic. Even the greatest Slovaks were lutherans (so as were Magyars). Maybe in this is a reason for peaceful coexistence and cooperation between Slovaks and Magyars for ages, which was not in presence in Transylvania were orthodoxy Vlachs were living.

For interest, here is image of glagolitic script dating from mid 10th century, from Moravia Magna found on Mt. Athos peninsula.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/ZographensisColour.jpg

What the heck means macsala? I have never heard this word before and do not understand it ...

might be that I do not remember it properly, I am therefore sorry for the mistake..
as for štvrtok
štvrť in Slovak means 1/4, a fourth day of the week, it might have russian influence but I doubt it as the last three days of week have clear numerical meaning
Streda= deriving from word stred=middle
Štvrtok= deriving from mentioned 1/4
Piatok = päť=5, 5th day, but origin might be also latin, penta..

Well, written slavic and hungarian are about the same age then, since first hungarian written latin letter sentences are in the Founding Letter of the Tihany Abbey (BTW Tihany is from the slavic word tychy = csendes) from 1055, but some runic written hungarian sentences are known already from the 5th(!) - to the 8th century - not counting the older ones, because they are scientifically not proved.
Late avar runic script (http://hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=F%C3%A1jl:Szarvasi_k%C3%A9s%C5%91_avar_kori_csont_t%C5%B1tart%C3%B3.jpg&filetimestamp=20081201025138)

There are yet not proven evidences about Slavs having runic script before they adopt Christianity. However they remain only as rumours having basics in early medieval sources and specially source of the bishop Thietmar of Merseburg, describing a temple on the island of Rügen, a Slavic pagan stronghold, remarked that the idols there had their names carved out on them ("singulis nominibus insculptis" Chronicon 6:23 and also mentioned by The 9th century Bulgarian writer, Chernorizets Hrabar in his О писменех (An Account of Letters). In this book he briefly mentioned that, before the introduction of Christianity, Slavs used a system he had dubbed "strokes and incisions" or "tallies and sketches" in some translations (Old Church Slavonic: чръты и рѣзы). He also provided information critical to Slavonic palaeography with his book.

As for Tihany being having slavic name it is funny how the language changes through ages. For example Esztergom is derived from the slovien fortress of Magna Moravia called Stregom, however current Slovak name for this town is Ostrihom. Country around Balaton was first a settlement and a seat of Pribina´s son Kocel (mentioned also in Slovenian history) so the old slovien influence is not surprising. Same in towns like Nyiregyhaza or Debrecen.

I was much more wondering about the history of the spoken slavic language, from which time do we have evidences about slavic-speaking peoples? At the fall of Rome they have not been in Middle-Europe yet (they were recorded by Plinius on the same area where we were that time) and suddenly (within 3 centuries) they were there? Maybe they came with avars, at around the 6th century? There are evidences about the avar-hungarian continuity, much more then about the continuity between huns and magyars...

It is said that Slavs were comming to current territories of the Slavic settlement in the 5th century from the region between Wisla and Dnieper rivers. However this is only one theory and the real old father country of Slavs remain unknown. Some of very crazy theories in Slovakia, Czech Republic describe aparent similairy between Slavic languages and Etruscan language.
However this is same crazyness as Magyar-Scythian-Sumerian similarity theories.
And as for Avars. Avars came from Asia and possibly they origined from the same Onoguric tribe as Magyars and proto Bulgarians therefore it could have some similarity in languages. In Asia nothing to be surprised of I suppose.

Four in slovakian is štyri (négy). Csütörtök is equivalent to Stvrtok but sounds much more originating from old russian word Четверг (fourth day) then after the slovakian Štvrtok, which sounds much more similar to the hungarian pronounciation then to the old slavic.

Csütörtök and péntek are a words of South Slavic origin (<= četvrtak, petak).

četvrti = negyedik => četvrtak = csütörtök (negyedik nap)

Csütörtök and péntek are a words of South Slavic origin (<= četvrtak, petak).

četvrti = negyedik => četvrtak = csütörtök (negyedik nap)

Nope. Csütörtök is for sure slavic, but comes much more from liturgic oldrussian/greek languages than from any south slavic language. We never lived mixed with south slaves before the 9th century. They got those daynames - in the same timeframe as we - from old slavic via Cyrill and Method.

Péntek is originating much more from the original Greek penta than from slavic Pät'. (the hungarian language does not insert consonats into words, maximum changes the order, like sreda => szerda.

BTW i do not see any evidence about if the names of Ponedelnik (vasárnap/szó szerint "nemdolgozás" utáni nap) and Vtornik (Második nap) has been translated into hungarian (hétfő and kedd), it could happen that the hungarian daynames were translated to protoslavic.

Do not underestimate the role of the 10th century Hungary in dissemination of liturgical culture - both orthodox and roman - in the Central-European region. It is only a fairy tale that some 150 000 horse breeding pagans arrived and settled in Hungary at around 600 to 895 and transformed within 100 years to a protochristian land-cultivating society.

There was a significant early orthodox influence at around the 9th-10th century in Hungary, which is measurable even in the names of religious holidays (pünkösd =>pentacost => ötvenedik (nap)), or Karácsony (= roman orthodox => craciun).

Nope. Csütörtök is for sure slavic, but comes much more from liturgic oldrussian/greek languages than from any south slavic language. We never lived mixed with south slaves before the 9th century. They got those daynames - in the same timeframe as we - from old slavic via Cyrill and Method.

hu.wikipedia:
csütörtök (http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cs%C3%BCt%C3%B6rt%C3%B6k)

Itt a szlovén četrtek-ből származtatja. Egyébként a csütörtök délszláv származtatása ma már evidencia.
A Dunántúl Balatontól délre és nyugatra eső része a magyar honfoglaláskor ősszlovének (a horvátok szerint protohorvátok) által lakott terület volt (Balaton-melléki szlávok). A magyar előrenyomulás következtében tömegesen menekültek a mai Szlovénia, illetve részben a mai Horvátország kontinentális területeire. Valójában ezekből a szlávokból a magyarok „csináltak” két népet, ennek oka pedig a magyar hódítás következtében a mai Szlovénia és Horvátország között létrejött határ volt. A határ nyugati oldalán, német fennhatóság alatt keletkezett a szlovén nép, míg a keleti oldalon a tenger felől jövő kulturális expanzió hatására az ottani szlávok elhorvátosodtak. Valamikor ezek egy nép voltak. Nem véletlen, hogy sokáig létezett a szlavón (szlovin/szlovinje)-horvát különállás, nemcsak nyelvileg, identitásban is (Horvátország, Szlavónia).

Péntek is originating much more from the original Greek penta than from slavic Pät'.

hu.wikipedia:
péntek (http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A9ntek)

Szintén a délszláv szlovénből származtatja, nem véletlenül. Emellett a szerda/szereda (=szreda) is délszláv jövevényszó.

Egyébként a délszláv hatás (kulturális és nyelvi értelemben is) sokkal jelentősebb a magyarra a szlovák és általában a nyugati szláv hatásnál. A keleti szláv hatás pedig teljesen elhanyagolható. A mai magyarban a szláv jövevényszavak döntő része délszláv eredetű (vallás, mezőgazdaság szavai, toponímiák).
Ez persze nem véletlen. A mai Magyarország nagy részén a délszlávokkal (bolgár-szlávok, balatoni szlovének, délszlávok által elszlávosodott avarok) került kapcsolatba a magyarság. A cseh/szlovák kapcsolat valamivel újabbkeletű. Más kérdés, hogy később aztán az válik jelentősebbé.

Turanism is not supported by Hungarian Academy of Sciences and it is not supported by any other academy of sciences on the world. Read about turanism in English Encyclopedia Britannica, French Larousse German Brockhaus or Encyclopedia

Americana, these great national encyclopedias were edited by academics scientists and scholars. There aren't any modern university professor and other professional academics, who support the existence of "turanic race". Don't forget:

Modern anthropology books didn't contain the fantastic "turanid race".

The problem is the following: In Hungary, there are many famous compulsory reading/novels for little pupils in primary schools.These romantic 19th century school novels propaged the beautifull fabulous turanian and Hun world. The

illustrations of Huns in the book are total white-men,and they depict the Huns as an ethnic nation instead of the reality: A confederation of various etchnically linguistically different barbarian tribes.In the 5-6th grade, the teachers

start to teach the scientific scholarly reality about the origin Hungarian language.It causes pain or identity problem for many pupils. As I know, the ruling elite of Hungarians were Turkic speaking people, the khazars. I think The turkic

name of the chiefs of the tribes sounds khazarian turkic rather than Hungarian (finno-ugric). The elite spoke khazar turkic as mother tongue, and they could speak Hungarian as foreign adopted language. They were horse archers. The people -

who were the ancestors of real Hungarians -were the vast majority, and tey spoke ancient Hungarian as mother tongue.

After the fall of Communism, a new type of book industry was born: the pseudo scientific books, which amalgamated esotericism, fantasy romanticism in the "turanic -world" After all, it became a very good business for these self-appointed

"scholars" (who are usually uneducated people with high-school leaving exam or "maturity exam), they produced many best-sellers, and they followers think that they are real scholars:)))). Turanism is often related to Hungarian fascist

and antisemite movements. Ironically the Turanism was invented by a foreign scholar, a german linguist: Max Müller. Ironically, the inventor: Max Müller revoked his turanism concept, but Hungarian Jewish (!!!) linguists (the most famous

was Ármin Vámbéry, best friend of Theodor Herzl) and orientalists maintained Max Müller's Turanic concept.


The other serious enemy of Turanism is the population genetics. Most slavic nations contain higher ratio of Eastern Asian (mongoloid) haplogroup markers than present day Hungarians, and most nations of Balkan contain high level of middle eastern haplogroup markers. Hungarians are also average lighter pigmented (average hair & eye color) than most of the neighbour countries, except Austria. See anthropology maps in google image searcher about hair and eye color pigmentation of Europe.



http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Gyermeteg turáni-hun-török-sumér-szíriusz bolygó+"Jézus magyar"mesékben hisztek?A nagyvilág egyetlen valódi (akademikus) tudósa vagy T.akadémiája lexikonja sem támogatja ezt a fantáziát.Primitív barbár-nomád mongolid ferdeszemű sárgabőrű rokonnépek kellenek?Fantasy ezoterikus könyveket olvastok olyan önjelölt"történészektől"akiknek ha részletesen utánanéztek életrajzuknak,max.1 érettségijük van,nemhogy b.miféle diplomájuk!Biológiai valóságot rokonságot feltáró populáció-genetikát sosem olvastok.

Tudtátok hogy Attila népszerűsége a nyugati világban felmérések szerint Hitlerrel vetekszik?A feltörekvő világhatalomban Kínában sem népszerűek a hunok("legyőzött kegyetlen nomád barbárok voltak a birodalom nyugati határainál akik nyugati irányba menekültek miután népünk legyőzte őket")Nemhiába támogatják 100%-ig a magyar-hun turáni elméletet a szlovák román szerb magyaellenes nacionalisták.Ők tudják mivel ártanak járatnak le bennünket legjobban.Sokan meg idehaza segítik őket ebben