Discussões sobre Moçambique | Discussions about Mozambique [Archive]

alama

August 14th, 2011, 07:14 PM

President Armando Guebuza of Mozambique signs up to support tourism July 08 2011 Posted by: hkennedy President Armando Guebuza of Mozambique has become the latest head of state to join the World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) and World Travel & Tourism Council (WTTC) sponsored Global Leaders for Tourism Campaign. “We support tourism as an area of major importance in our agenda to fight poverty,” said Guebuza. The President was speaking after joining the UNWTO/WTTC Global Leaders for Tourism Campaign. “Given its impact in terms of jobs and income and considering its multiplier effects in other areas of the economy, tourism has proven to be a sector of high relevance in the socio-economic development of our country,” continued Guebuza. President Guebuza received an Open Letter from UNWTO Secretary-General, Taleb Rifai, and World Travel &Tourism Council president, David Scowsill, highlighting the role of tourism as one of the most effective solutions to a series of global challenges . During his official visit to Mozambique, Rifai also met prime minister Aires Ali, who reiterated the government’s commitment to tourism. “We are fully committed to the development of tourism in Mozambique, as the Government has recognised the sector as strategic for the overall development of the country,” he said. “Mozambique has unique resources to advance tourism and make of it a real driver to improve the lives of its people." “Moreover, it has the political will to do so." Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, president of Indonesia, pledged his support to the scheme last month. He joins Pál Schmitt of Hungary and Jacob Zuma of South Africa. WTTC president, David Scowsill, said: “The tourism potential of Mozambique speaks for itself, with 2,700km of tropical coastline, a variety of ecological systems that are rich in species and a rich historic cultural heritage but most significantly, the Mozambican Government has recognised the opportunities for economic growth and job creation through tourism . “The total contribution of tourism to Mozambique’s GDP, including its wider economic impacts, is forecast to rise by 6.4 per cent each year over the next ten years. “By 2021 the sector will support over 700,000 jobs in Mozambique,” he added. With over two million international tourist arrivals in 2010, Mozambique is becoming one of the most important destinations in Sub-Saharan Africa. International tourism revenues of US$1 billion represent nine per cent of Mozambique’s total exports.

alama

August 14th, 2011, 07:17 PM

:applause: 2+milhões de visitantes em 2010. Estamos a subir.

alama

August 14th, 2011, 07:39 PM

Por falar em Salazar e Moçambique, o que é feito do Liceu Salazar? Lembro-me que esta escola foi construída com uma visão de futuro notável, com uma piscina em recinto coberto, anfiteatro para aulas de canto coral, enorme salão de festas onde se realizavam os exames finais e os bailes de finalista e afins, vários campos polidesportivos e um ginásio muito bem equipado.
Felizmente o nome actual já não é Liceu Salazar, mas sim Escola Secundária Josina Machel, em homenagem a heroina nacional moçambicana-primeira esposa do presidente Samora.

É a escola de ensino publico-secundário mais ampla da cidade de MPT.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMkjIN3bSoZMda3dvxugsEzFO8tpGz8cY_OxLDEAdFJxyUPaJ6uilRAQ
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dmCqyZsYXi8/TKNeYDkfELI/AAAAAAAABaU/UGENE_eMt5w/s1200/Escola+Secundária+Josina+Machel+-+Maputo.jpg
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIvPZAE5n880_8r5dWLYEpquJMXUAKmNxo31biYR1YbSoKp8_cgkeuEF5l
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTAX_B3KuOFoKvEDgdp1rwvwCY4_6_zLEFsdK2OyXbP0jfkV8DN5kgEHw
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS501wuqNMqDeV4asAJowZ3HtQloI_5xy_Rpmp1je0pM3pSM_Q0FSZPuCha

Loro.

August 14th, 2011, 09:57 PM

Amigos, trago do thread latino de economia para cá essa excelente noticia postada pelo forista Conde D'eu. :cheers:

Dom, 14 de Agosto de 2011 07:42

Agricultor do Brasil poderá usar por 50 anos área equivalente a 'três Sergipes', pagando R$ 21 por hectare ao ano

País africano mira expertise brasileira no cerrado, região similar; 40 brasileiros visitarão as áreas em setembro

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-al8h1wlgqYw/TgDkYZrKNXI/AAAAAAAAASc/z8f3jWftm84/s430/BANDEIRA%2BBRASIL%2BMO%25C3%2587AMBIOQUE.jpg

O governo de Moçambique está oferecendo uma área de 6 milhões de hectares -equivalente a três Sergipes- para que agricultores brasileiros plantem soja, algodão e milho no norte do país.

A primeira leva de 40 agricultores parte de Mato Grosso rumo a Moçambique -a próxima fronteira agrícola do Brasil- no mês que vem. As terras são oferecidas em regime de concessão -os brasileiros podem usá-las por 50 anos, renováveis por outros 50, mediante um imposto módico de 37,50 meticais (R$ 21) por hectare, por ano.

"Moçambique é um Mato Grosso no meio da África, com terra de graça, sem tanto impedimento ambiental e frete muito mais barato para a China", diz Carlos Ernesto Augustin, presidente da Associação Mato-Grossense dos Produtores de Algodão (Ampa). "Hoje, além de a terra ser caríssima em Mato Grosso, é impossível obter licença de desmate e limpeza de área."
Augustin organizou a missão de agricultores para ir ao país em setembro ver as terras. Um consultor da Ampa já está no país contatando autoridades e preparando a viagem. "Quem vai tomar conta da África? Chinês, europeu ou americano? O brasileiro, que tem conhecimento do cerrado", diz Augustin.
"Os agricultores brasileiros têm experiência acumulada que é muito bem-vinda. Queremos repetir em Moçambique o que eles fizeram no cerrado 30 anos atrás", afirma o ministro da Agricultura de Moçambique, José Pacheco. "A grande condição para os agricultores é ter disposição de investir em terras moçambicanas", diz Pacheco. É preciso empregar 90% de mão de obra moçambicana.

CONCESSÃO

A terra em Moçambique é propriedade do Estado e pode ser usada em regime de concessão, que está aberto a estrangeiros. O governo busca agricultores brasileiros por causa da experiência no cerrado, que tem características climáticas e de solo muito semelhantes à área oferecida.

As terras oferecidas aos brasileiros estão em quatro províncias da região Norte:Niassa, Cabo Delgado, Nampula e Zambézia. A região é superior a toda área cultivada de cana-de-açúcar no Estado de São Paulo (cerca de 5 milhões de hectares).

Os produtores vão a reboque da Embrapa, que mantém na área o projeto Pro-Savana, com a Agência Brasileira de Cooperação e a Jica (Agência de Cooperação Internacional do Japão).

O projeto de cooperação técnica em Moçambique é o maior da Embrapa fora do Brasil -terá 15 pessoas a partir de outubro. Em duas estações no norte do país, eles estão testando sementes de algodão, soja, milho, sorgo, feijão do cerrado brasileiro, para adaptá-las ao norte moçambicano.

"Nessa região, metade da área é povoada por pequenos agricultores, mas a outra metade é despovoada, como existia no oeste da Bahia e em Mato Grosso nos anos 80", diz Francisco Basílio, chefe da Secretaria de Relações Internacionais da Embrapa.

O governo vai dar isenção fiscal para importar equipamentos agrícolas.

Consultoria vai fazer turnê pró-África

Empresa pesquisa planos de plantio e logística mais adequados e irá apresentá-los a investidores no início de 2012

Regime de concessão de terra, comum no continente, alavanca projetos, afirma diretor da GV Agro

A GV Agro vai iniciar no ano que vem um "road show" para atrair agricultores para produzir em países como Moçambique, Senegal, Libéria, Zâmbia, Guiné Conacri e Guiné Bissau.

A consultoria está fazendo levantamentos em países com grande potencial de produção agrícola na África e na América Central, no chamado "Cinturão Tropical".

Os consultores estão pesquisando quais plantios são mais adequados, pontos de escoamento e logística. Com esses dados, vão fazer um "road show" para investidores privados, especialmente brasileiros, no início de 2012.

"Queremos atrair agricultores para produzir nesses países, que são as novas fronteiras agrícolas", diz Cléber Guarani, coordenador de projetos da GV Agro, braço de projetos agroindustriais da GV Projetos.

Em muitos desses países da África, há regime de concessão de terras. "As concessões alavancam o projeto, porque eliminam a necessidade de um investimento inicial grande em compra de terra", afirma Guarani.

Segundo ele, essa é uma forma de expandir as vendas do pacote tecnológico brasileiro. Governos locais dão benefícios fiscais para importar máquinas e equipamentos. "E é natural que o BNDES financie a compra de equipamentos brasileiros", diz.

Em Moçambique, por exemplo, a GV atua com o projeto Pro-Savana para atrair os investidores privados. A Embrapa treina técnicos moçambicanos e adapta sementes brasileiras. E a Jica (Agência de Cooperação Internacional do Japão) está financiando melhorias de infraestrutura na região.
"Interessa-nos ter brasileiros em Moçambique produzindo, porque temos grande deficit de alimentos", diz o embaixador de Moçambique no Brasil, Murade Murargy.

A inspiração é o Prodecer (Programa de Cooperação Japão-Brasil para o Desenvolvimento dos Cerrados), que nos anos 70 ajudou o cerrado a se tornar uma das regiões agrícolas mais produtivas.

"Antes disso, se dizia: 'o cerrado, nem dado, nem herdado', lembra o ex-ministro da Agricultura Roberto Rodrigues, presidente do Conselho Superior do Agronegócio da Fiesp.

"Moçambique pretende ser uma réplica do Prodecer", diz Marco Farani, diretor da ABC (Agência Brasileira de Cooperação). "Queremos estimular os produtores brasileiros a ir para lá e aproveitar a tecnologia que estamos desenvolvendo."

Rodrigues ressalta a dimensão geoestratégica da expansão do agronegócio brasileiro na África. "A China está lá, mas para extrair riquezas; nós podemos transferir tecnologia agrícola, dentro de uma estratégia para sermos líderes em economia verde."

Preço da terra brasileira subiu mais de 15%

O preço das terras no Brasil subiu mais de 15% em termos nominais nos últimos 12 meses, segundo levantamento da Informa Economics FNP.
A elevação é superior à alta dos últimos anos, em que os preços subiram entre 5% e 6%, em média.

Segundo Jacqueline Bierhals, gerente de agroenergia da Informa Economics FNP, nem as medidas de restrição ao capital estrangeiro na compra de terras, adotadas em agosto do ano passado, e as novas propostas de restrição em estudo no Congresso, frearam a alta dos preços.

"As última três safras tiveram resultados muito bons. O produtor brasileiro está bastante capitalizado --então, mesmo sem estrangeiros, o mercado continua muito líquido [quando há facilidade para vender]", afirma Jacqueline.

"Além disso, o cenário para grãos está muito aquecido, por causa da escassez nos Estados Unidos, que são formadores de estoque."

ÚLTIMA FRONTEIRA

Mato Grosso é o sexto Estado com maior valorização nas terras. "As terras no Brasil têm ficado muito caras --na comparação com Argentina e Europa, a terra no Brasil ainda é mais barata, mas com a África não dá para competir. A migração é um movimento que começa a ganhar força. A África é a última fronteira agrícola do mundo", diz Jacqueline.

Mas ela ressalta que há grandes dificuldades logísticas na África e não se pode subestimar o desafio de escoar a produção lá.

No Brasil, ainda há terras para abrir no oeste baiano, no Nordeste e no Tocantins. "Mas, tirando isso, não tem mais nada; e nos vizinhos, também tem pouca coisa."

Fonte: Folha de S. Paulo - PATRÍCIA CAMPOS MELLO

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/959518-mocambique-oferece-area-de-tres-sergipes-a-soja-brasileira.shtml

Nos proximos anos veremos uma verdadeira revolução na produção agricola moçambicana e um upgrade na construção civil em suas cidades pequenas e medias graças aos empregos rurais e industriais vinculados à agroindústria e ao agro-comércio, algo semelhante ao que ocorreu com o centro oeste brasileiro desde o advento da agroindústria na região.

Abraços. :okay:

alama

August 14th, 2011, 10:20 PM

Não seria mais útil para a povo se o governo moçambicano procurasse melhorar as estruturas de produção agrícola do país em primeiro lugar antes de disponibilizar assim do nada 5ml de hectares? Estamos a falar de grandes 5 Milhoes de hectares de terra fertil. :nono: Sinceramente isso aínda vai causar muitos conflitos e barulho...
PS: e eu não gostei nada disso, mas nem um bocadinho mesmo, até parece neo-colonialismo!! :mad:

alama

August 14th, 2011, 10:29 PM

EM 50 ANOS?? Juro que eu mato esses zucas e frito o c**alho do Guebuza.

Loro.

August 14th, 2011, 11:27 PM

Alama, respeito tua visão, mas discordo totalmente, tais incentivos a grupos empresariais podem parecer injustos, mas não tem nada de neo colonialismo tornar um pais atraente para receber investimentos estrageiros.

Produzir o que for em outros paises, fomentar investimentos estrangeiros e conceder incentivos fiscais é algo corriqueiro no mundo inteiro, Portugal por exemplo, concedeu bilionários incentivos fiscais para a Embraer construir uma fabrica de aviões em Évora, a Apple para começar a fabricar seus iPads, iPods, etc no Brasil ganhou praticamente de graça o terreno aonde vai construir sua fabrica e terá vultosos incentivos fiscais garantidos por decadas. Nesses dois exemplos caso Brasil ou Portugal não oferececem tais incentivos, os empregos gerados por esses empreendimentos e toda a cadeia ao seu redor iriam para algum pais da asia ou leste europeu.

O proprio agronegocio brasileiro se desenvolveu em boa parte graças aos investimentos de gigantes transnacionais da agricultura, como a Bunge, Cargill, Monsanto, Stora Enzo, Syngenta, etc. São estrageiros, mas o importante é que eles geram empregos aqui, possuem centros de P&D nas cidades medias do interior, alavancando os setores de ciencia, pesquisa, desenvolvimento e inovação nacional, pagam impostos e ajudam a equilibrar a balança comercial.

É isso que espero que ocorra em outros paises com potencial agricola, não é necessario ser dono da vaca para beber leite.

Kangaroo MZ

April 28th, 2012, 12:20 AM

blantyre bazaar

October 13th, 2012, 01:41 PM

:hi:

Kangaroo MZ

October 14th, 2012, 04:35 AM

bem vindo de volta!

Esses mambas quando querem desapontar os outros com sucesso conseguem... :ohno:

blantyre bazaar

October 14th, 2012, 10:08 PM

Eish meu nem me fales ! foi a derrota do seculo ! :(

Astmathic

October 16th, 2012, 04:36 AM

So by the information i get on moz it only looks to me like maputo is the only city that is really growing... Do you agree or disagree?

Kangaroo MZ

October 16th, 2012, 09:12 PM

Kangaroo MZ

October 16th, 2012, 09:15 PM

Eish meu nem me fales ! foi a derrota do seculo ! :(

eu proponho que deve haver uma reforma!

Lino

October 17th, 2012, 10:19 AM

Não deixem é empresas como a Monsanto entrar aí... produtos geneticamente modificados que lixam para sempre a biodiversidade, a qualidade dos frutos, os solos ficarão gastos... procurem uma agricultura sustentável, diversificada, orgânica.
A Monsanto é criminosa.

Astmathic

October 18th, 2012, 08:30 PM

I don't agree. Yes, Maputo seem to be getting the most growth because it's the capital of the country but there are other parts of the country that are receiving a lot of investment both foreign and domestic:
There's Matola (although it's within Area Metropolitana de Maputo) the city is growing and becoming very independent from the nearby capital; we have Tete which is among the fastest growing towns in the continent as well as Pemba in Cabo Delgado Province.
We also have other small towns like Moatize, Nacala, Inhambane that are having a lot of activities going on.

What's your opinion? I'd like to hear them.

My opinion is that just Maputo-Matola are growing at a rapid pace... Basically based on the information i get (which i get from news, family and peers). The only city be besides Maputo that also is growing is Nampula it seems like to me.

Very interesting with Tete tho, maybe i should just investigate it a bit more. :p

Another question, do you think it's right that Maputo gets most of the investment? Is it put to good use there, or do you think another city would put it to better use?

Kangaroo MZ

October 18th, 2012, 09:24 PM

Lino

October 21st, 2012, 10:15 AM

Experiência? Cada vez leio mais artigos que apontam os aspectos negativos da agricultura intensiva que desgasta a terra, que usa químicos nocivos, que altera a genética alimentar e todo o sabor dos alimentos....

Paperyostrich

October 21st, 2012, 01:47 PM

Do you think it's right that Maputo gets most of the investment? Is it put to good use there, or do you think another city would put it to better use?

I Personally think it is right. Maputo has about 2 million people living in it, but lacks the infranstructure and amenities to support 2 million people. Maputo, back in 1975 only had about, what, 500,000 people living there. That means that in 37 years over 1.5 million people have moved in, whilst the number of houses being built between 1975 and 1992 was virtually 0 and past 1992, not enough hoses are being built to support the large population, hence the massive sprawling slums in the city.

Every city would put it to good use but Maputo, being the commercial and economic capital needs it more than anything. It's not only houses but schools, hospitals and roads, busses, trains etc that are missing. And no other city in Mozambique is anywhere near as big as Maputo (Bar Matola) Transport wise, i'm not too sure what Maputo has, but I know that the other cities don't need things like a metro (which I think is being built) or trams (which I personally think Maputo should bring back!) But could focus on cheaper forms of transport, BRT or taxis. Anyway that is what I think.

As the country gets richer from the gas fields and the coal mines at Tete then investment will go more evenly around the country, especially to the more deprived north, where all of the resources are being found. :)

Paperyostrich

October 21st, 2012, 01:50 PM

A also have a question. Maputo is such a beautiful city and has nice archetecture, yet the concrete flats that make up the skyline are in an appaling condition 90% of the time. Why has the goverment allowed this to happen? Mozambiques goverment seems to be far more competent than other African countries. Surely it isn't that hard to paint a few towers, or get somebody to do it?

Kangaroo MZ

October 22nd, 2012, 08:44 AM

Kangaroo MZ

October 22nd, 2012, 09:48 AM

Spot on Papery i like your answers, they're very well put! :okay:
My opinion is that just Maputo-Matola are growing at a rapid pace... Basically based on the information i get (which i get from news, family and peers). The only city be besides Maputo that also is growing is Nampula it seems like to me.
Virtually every region in Mozambique is growing at a fast pace,,,Maputo region gets the largest share and a lot of attention for being the capital city and economic and financial hub of the country.
Nampula is growing too but not as much as Tete (I suggest you to read more about this city).

Very interesting with Tete tho, maybe i should just investigate it a bit more. :p
I suggest you to do that - I read a piece of article not a long ago that places both Tete and Pemba as some of the fastest growing towns in Africa,,,you get the rest,,, :laugh:

Another question, do you think it's right that Maputo gets most of the investment? Is it put to good use there, or do you think another city would put it to better use?
No. It's not fair but it's understandable.
Together with Matola they make up the most densely populated spot in the country where 10% of Mozambique's total population live, meaning, it exerts a significant impact upon the country's economy and hosting a large number of foreign companies requiring a base here, embassies, etc. IMO it needs more investiment than anywhere else.
The other cities also need it and I am pretty they would put it to better use but Maputo seems to be doing quite well in that department. :)

Paperyostrich

October 22nd, 2012, 06:17 PM

The civil war and the short period after independence contributed a lot to the state the buildings are today.
when the portuguese left the flats were occupied by poor people, and even though the city was neutral during the civil war they couldn't afford to paint them. The economy was crashed, and there was a lack of expertise and a very limited budget available for renewal projects.
And instead of rehabilitating the existing buildings, the government and some property developers are investing in the construction of new ones...
But I've heard of some programs for that, like PROMAPUTO which focuses in the rehabilitation of old historic buildings and other infrastructures.

Yes I have heard about PROMAPUTO. It's a good Idea. I hope that in the next few years all the buildings are put into a good condition again, Some cities E.G Beira need that more than anything. The buildings there are in an absolute terrible condition.

Talking about Beira I heard that the government purposly has money directed from it because they support RENAMO. Is that true? Because if it is then it's pretty discusting that thats happening. I mean isn't Beira Mozambiques 3rd most important city :nuts:

Kangaroo MZ

October 22nd, 2012, 07:44 PM

Actually they support the new party - MDM, which is the ''fastest growing party'' these days in the country. The beirenses hate both Renamo and Frelimo.
They hate Renamo because of what they did during the war, and Frelimo because...well, because they are Frelimo.
and Frelimo never got any support in that city so they just treat them carelessly,,,I have family members there and I know how frustrating it is.

DanielFigFoz

October 22nd, 2012, 07:50 PM

Kangaroo MZ

October 22nd, 2012, 07:51 PM

I really suggest you to take your time and read this interesting piece about what's going on in politics lately:
www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/20/us-mozambique-politics-idUSBRE88J0ST20120920

Kangaroo MZ

October 22nd, 2012, 07:56 PM

Paperyostrich

October 22nd, 2012, 08:56 PM

Yes, it's still considered as second most important city because Matola is often put together with Maputo.

You should go there,,,my mother said it was once the most beautiful city in the country (they called it Venice or Amsterdam of Mozambique) and tourists from all over the world would go there... :( :(

Thats why I said it was 3rd, cuz I didn't know if Matola was included as Maputo :)

I'd love to go to that city. It still looks like an intresting place to visit, and some of the archetecture is really intresting, I like the train station, although being from the 70's the skyline is a bit too "square" for me, but hey the city suffered hell during the war so i'm not too bothered.

I've seen the old pics. The city really did look lovely. To be honest the city still dosent look to bad, A lick of paint and some new roads would make the city look like a new place. I've been on the Beira thread and I can see that the city it recieving some attention so thats good.

By the way I have one more question regarding the city (Sorry I'm asking so many) I heard that the water drainage channels in Inhambane are to get rehabilitated to stop flooding. Beira has some rather large drainage channels in it, and being the second most important city in the country, are there any plans for rehabilitation?

Kangaroo MZ

October 22nd, 2012, 09:29 PM

Paperyostrich

October 22nd, 2012, 09:56 PM

no. All of you feel free ask as many questions i will try to answer them even though my knowledge is kinda limited in some aspects lol.
www.macauhub.com.mo/en/2011/07/14/mozambique-negotiates-funding-with-world-bank-for-drainage-system-in-the-city-of-beira/ (http://www.macauhub.com.mo/en/2011/07/14/mozambique-negotiates-funding-with-world-bank-for-drainage-system-in-the-city-of-beira/)
The article (from 2011) says that they were negotiating funding with the World Bank to build/rehabilitate the drainage system there and if everything worked well the work would begin in 2012 (this year) but I can't confirm this.
Quelimane will also get one i think...

Thats good. The city needed it done. Just one more (sorry) :nuts: Is there any advances on the Maputo Metro. I've tried serching, but I can't find any recent updates (in english anyway) And do you think they should bring the trams back to Maputo, like they were there back in the good days of Lourenco Marques? Thanks :)

Astmathic

October 23rd, 2012, 04:45 PM

Yeah what you guys are saying makes a lot of sense..
Can you post the links about tete, i can't really find em.

Thats good. The city needed it done. Just one more (sorry) :nuts: Is there any advances on the Maputo Metro. I've tried serching, but I can't find any recent updates (in english anyway) And do you think they should bring the trams back to Maputo, like they were there back in the good days of Lourenco Marques? Thanks :)

I definitely think Maputo should bring back the trams! It would make the city so beautiful and more charming. If they would bring the trams back where would the centralstation be? at CFM

Kangaroo MZ

October 23rd, 2012, 05:30 PM

Thats good. The city needed it done. Just one more (sorry) :nuts: Is there any advances on the Maputo Metro. I've tried serching, but I can't find any recent updates (in english anyway)
The major of Maputo gave a tv interview earlier this year,,,but ever since I have not heard about any thing... :(
I will try to find the interview on youtube for you (although it's in portuguese)
And do you think they should bring the trams back to Maputo, like they were there back in the good days of Lourenco Marques? Thanks :)
they definitely should,,,! It would give it charm lol.

Paperyostrich

October 23rd, 2012, 05:40 PM

The major of Maputo gave a tv interview earlier this year,,,but ever since I have not heard about any thing... :(
I will try to find the interview on youtube for you (although it's in portuguese)

they definitely should,,,! It would give it charm lol.

Thanks, if it's in Portuguese then it dosen't matter, I can't understand a word of it :lol:

With the trams I think so too. Maputo needs more public transport and trams are now coming back in fashion. It's definatly the way to go. I know that here in the UK they have re introduced trams in London, Sheffeild and Manchester + we already had them in Blackpool. They are immensly popular.

I think the metro is a good idea, the city needs one, and the terrain is quite good. I would also like to see a BRT, and maybe some light rail. The more public transport the better. If it's there people will use it. Do many people own a car in Maputo? And was there any other things like trams in any of the other cities?

Kangaroo MZ

October 23rd, 2012, 05:43 PM

Yeah what you guys are saying makes a lot of sense..
Can you post the links about tete, i can't really find em.
Here,,, it's a list of african towns experiencing the ''boom town effect'' thet made Johannesnburg what it is today - they place Tete in the first place, and Pemba takes the fifth spot.
www.cyberprop.com/cyber1_06072012_29.shp

I definitely think Maputo should bring back the trams! It would make the city so beautiful and more charming. If they would bring the trams back where would the centralstation be? at CFM
possibly.
It's always been the Central station and it's located downtown where most of the business, etc are located at.

Paperyostrich

October 23rd, 2012, 05:44 PM

Yeah what you guys are saying makes a lot of sense..
Can you post the links about tete, i can't really find em.

I definitely think Maputo should bring back the trams! It would make the city so beautiful and more charming. If they would bring the trams back where would the centralstation be? at CFM

I think that could work. It's quite large and spacious. I don't know much about it, but trams can share the same tracks as trains. Thats whats happening in the UK. we are using old rail lines and refitting the trams to run on there. The CFM is a beautiful building as well, but it seems very under - utilised. If the tram hub was put there then it could become more popular and the local area could flourish. As well as other areas of town which the tram would reach. Am I right that some of the tracks still exist?

Kangaroo MZ

October 23rd, 2012, 05:55 PM

276.000 is the number of cars in the city.
www.ctv.org.mz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1254%3Aqualidade-do-ar-degrada-se-nas-cidades-de-maputo-e-matola&catid=101%3Atodas-noticias&Itemid=554&lang=pt

Kangaroo MZ

October 23rd, 2012, 06:00 PM

tracks? You mean old tram tracks? Perhaps. I've never seem them anywhere.

Paperyostrich

October 23rd, 2012, 06:08 PM

tracks? You mean old tram tracks? Perhaps. I've never seem them anywhere.

Yeah. I saw it on Wikipedia (So it's most likely fake) 276,000 isn't alot since the city has 2 million people living in it. Another reason for more public transport. Even though there arn't all that many cars the cities streets are quite busy. I suppose this is down to the fact the city wasn't ment to have this volume of people in it. The wide avenues on the capital would make it perfect for a BRT. I've noticed the wide avenues in many other Mozambican cities, such as Xai Xai, Inhambane and Tete. As well as the much smaller towns.

This may be a dissagreeable idea, but I'd like to see a monorail system in Maputo. I read an intresting article saying that they are becoming the transport of choice in developing countries. Look at Accra, Port Harcourt and Mumbai. Some people say thy are awful and look like eyesores, but I think thay look awesome, I mean not many people can say they take a monorail to work. I also feel like the design of concrete would fit in with Maputo's "concrete" archetecture.

DanielFigFoz

October 23rd, 2012, 07:45 PM

Paperyostrich

October 23rd, 2012, 08:27 PM

Mostly Rhodesians though.

That was an interesting article you posted.

I heard South African's also liked Mozambique as a tourist destination. I couldn't blame them ;)

Now Zimbabwe is finally getting its act back together I think Zimbabwe and Mozambique could become good tradig partmenrs in the furute. Zimbabwe has some very valuble assets in the fact that it produces alot of platnum and it's landlocked. Mozambique should be using its landlocked neighbours to it's advantage.

Kangaroo MZ

October 23rd, 2012, 09:25 PM

Yeah. I saw it on Wikipedia (So it's most likely fake)
Lol i dunno,,, I grew up in Matola so even though it's a step away from Maputo, i usually don't go there that much... Not sure. :laugh:
276,000 isn't alot since the city has 2 million people living in it. Another reason for more public transport. Even though there arn't all that many cars the cities streets are quite busy. I suppose this is down to the fact the city wasn't ment to have this volume of people in it. The wide avenues on the capital would make it perfect for a BRT. I've noticed the wide avenues in many other Mozambican cities, such as Xai Xai, Inhambane and Tete. As well as the much smaller towns.
+1

This may be a dissagreeable idea, but I'd like to see a monorail system in Maputo. I read an intresting article saying that they are becoming the transport of choice in developing countries. Look at Accra, Port Harcourt and Mumbai. Some people say thy are awful and look like eyesores, but I think thay look awesome, I mean not many people can say they take a monorail to work. I also feel like the design of concrete would fit in with Maputo's "concrete" archetecture.
I also like monorails,,,they look kinda futuristic to me. What I didn't know is that Accra was building a monorail system that once completed it would serve no less than 300.000 people daily. How awesome! I wish they could do the same in Maputo plus a BRT line and a metro,,,would do wonders!

Kangaroo MZ

October 23rd, 2012, 09:45 PM

I heard South African's also liked Mozambique as a tourist destination. I couldn't blame them ;)
They still do. I mean how couldn't they? :lol:
Moz (especially the South) is becoming a top destination for young adventurous SAn tourists.

Now Zimbabwe is finally getting its act back together I think Zimbabwe and Mozambique could become good tradig partmenrs in the furute. Zimbabwe has some very valuble assets in the fact that it produces alot of platnum and it's landlocked. Mozambique should be using its landlocked neighbours to it's advantage.
we are. Most countries from the hinterland who used to use the durban port are now turning to Mozambique. Not long ago Zimbabwe, Botswana and Moz signed a memoranda of understanding on the construction of a 7 billion dollars deepwater port in Maputo Province, a 1.100km railway that will go through Zim linking Mozambique to Botswana plus a oil papeline. I will try to find a link to that news...

Zimbabwe and Moz are good trading partners.

Kangaroo MZ

October 23rd, 2012, 09:48 PM

here Papery
www.trademarksa.org/news/botswana-mozambique-agree-construction-techobanine-deepwater-port

Paperyostrich

October 23rd, 2012, 10:44 PM

here Papery
www.trademarksa.org/news/botswana-mozambique-agree-construction-techobanine-deepwater-port (http://www.trademarksa.org/news/botswana-mozambique-agree-construction-techobanine-deepwater-port)

Good news! I've heard about this project. Nice to see Mozambique building railways. They are the way forward. Hopefully you guys will not make the mistakes of others and rely on roads only for transportation of goods. How are Mozambiques railroads anyway? Are some of them in a poor condition, or being rehabilitated, because many countries are now rebuilding their rail lines. I doubt Mozabmique is an exeption! Mozambique has surprising amount of railways to be honest. But the only thing that annoys me is that none of them are joined up! I'm sure many people aren't happy about going through Malawi to get to the other end of the country. To move forward all of the rail lines need to be together. It would be so much cheaper and economically better in the long run. A rail line can do immense things economiclly.

Paperyostrich

October 23rd, 2012, 10:48 PM

Its not only the south Africans now who are findingit paradise. Europeans are now flocking to the country. I mean a ew years ago the country had the fastest growing tourism industry in the world!!!

I hope to go to Mozambique one day. I'm off to Kenya next year (My first time abroad) ;) So im edging closer. After tht I hope to go to Tanzania and then down to Mozambique in a couple of years time

Kangaroo MZ

November 9th, 2012, 11:24 AM

Mozambican rail lines are pretty extensive imo but they are old and some have not been used since the civil war started.
The government is using a new method in which, for example, mining companies Vale and Rio Tinto and oil companies ENI and Anadarko, through an agreement with them can participate in the construction of new ones as well as in the rehabilitation of existing ones.

Kangaroo MZ

January 18th, 2013, 09:24 PM

Paperyostrich

January 18th, 2013, 09:27 PM

I had a quick chat with a young portuguese man working in Maputo.
He left Portugal (Lisbon) last May and never went back, he first left to Qatar where he worked with IT and now he works for TV Cabo Moçambique (cable tv and internet provider) since last September and he also opened his business in the city...something related to IT.

Interesting story...

Intresting. It looks like Mozambique is again becoming a hotbed for the Portuguese. Mind you I can see why; Portugal is in a recession, Mozambique is one of the fastest economies in the world. With the gas and the coal, stories like this will become increasingly common, not to say they are rare already, this has already been going on for a while.

Kangaroo MZ

January 18th, 2013, 10:00 PM

Paperyostrich

January 18th, 2013, 10:03 PM

Yes, I heard a lot of stories about foreign people coming here but I never had an opportunity to talk to one of them personally.
He said he likes it here. Good food, nightlife, women, etc but he was complaining about the cost of life. He's living in a 2-bedroom apartment in central Maputo where he pays for aprox 615 US dollars monthly for rent alone. He also complained about the prices of vegetables and alcoholic beverages and bribery.

I think the cost of things is the most major problem. As new home are built and renovated in Mozambique the costs will surely go down, and as the agriculture industry takes off the so will the price of food. Corruption is definatly a major issue, but only the government can sort that one out.

Kangaroo MZ

January 18th, 2013, 10:28 PM

Kangaroo MZ

January 18th, 2013, 10:32 PM

Paperyostrich

January 18th, 2013, 11:20 PM

He is lucky he's not living in Johannesbur or Luanda where expatriates have to pay up to £12 for a fast food meal, £2.46 for a litre of milk, £7.9 for a trip to the cinema and £4.99 for 100g of
spaghetti.

Some expats want to bring their habits and customs here; nothing wrong with that, but if you want to buy tomatoes in the supermarket instead of buying them at a small market (which is much cheaper) then you need to be willing to pay for it no matter how expensive without any complaints.

About bribes and corruption most of expats are targets because they are clueless and powerless and don't know the laws for the most part. So they are more likely to fall for it than someone like me for example.

I've heard the same thing about Libreville and Malabo as well. It's so ridiculous. I mean, paying that much for food, no wonder people in these countries live in poverty. The main reason everything is so expensive is because it is imported. I mean this is bad, as obviously the cost of living goes up. The bad thing is in Angola and Gabon, most of the people seem to be proud of the fact that their cities are among the most expensive in the world.

I agree about the corruption part. Is the government doing anything about corruption, because Mozambique I hear is quite a corrupt country, something I honestly wouldn't have expected.

Paperyostrich

January 18th, 2013, 11:22 PM

Read this article about Luanda.
He would be paying 7,500 pounds for a one-room apartment in a nice area. :nuts: So Maputo is still an affordable place to stay.
[url]www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2183616/Luanda-The-capital-Angola-expensive-city-world.html

Did you hear about the amartment building completed in Luanda, the nice white one which is the oval shape. (I can't remember the name of it) Anyway, apparently the penthouse apartment there went on sale for $7.5 million. That's insane! Here in the UK, you can by a nice victorian mansion with that amount (you can buy a modern one as well, but the victorian ones are the best lol)

Paperyostrich

January 18th, 2013, 11:24 PM

And btw £7.90 for a trip to the cinema is cheap. It's about the same amount I have to pay in the UK

Kangaroo MZ

January 19th, 2013, 08:14 AM

I've heard the same thing about Libreville and Malabo as well. It's so ridiculous. I mean, paying that much for food, no wonder people in these countries live in poverty. The main reason everything is so expensive is because it is imported. I mean this is bad, as obviously the cost of living goes up. The bad thing is in Angola and Gabon, most of the people seem to be proud of the fact that their cities are among the most expensive in the world.
Thankfully our government is starting to invest in agriculture, fishing and livestock. It's the only way out of this mess. If it depended on me we would be food sufficient by 2015 if we invested heavily in that sector and we would be feeding the continent with our agri-potential.

I agree about the corruption part. Is the government doing anything about corruption, because Mozambique I hear is quite a corrupt country, something I honestly wouldn't have expected.
It is. I don't think they are doing anything to tackle that problem.

Kangaroo MZ

January 19th, 2013, 08:19 AM

Did you hear about the amartment building completed in Luanda, the nice white one which is the oval shape. (I can't remember the name of it) Anyway, apparently the penthouse apartment there went on sale for $7.5 million. That's insane! Here in the UK, you can by a nice victorian mansion with that amount (you can buy a modern one as well, but the victorian ones are the best lol)

Insane indeed. With that ammount of money you could build 2/3 big houses in a nice area here.
There are people who spend their money on that,,,smh.

Kangaroo MZ

January 19th, 2013, 08:39 AM

And btw £7.90 for a trip to the cinema is cheap. It's about the same amount I have to pay in the UK
Seriously? You spend that much for a movie?

We are starting to get this...let's call it 'cinema culture' here lately. Though we don't follow international standards. A ticket for a nice movie in the best cinema in the city (located @ MS Center) is about £4...just the ticket alone, plus a bucket of popcorn and beverage will cost you £1 each.
Close enough. :yes:

Paperyostrich

January 19th, 2013, 10:44 AM

Seriously? You spend that much for a movie?

We are starting to get this...let's call it 'cinema culture' here lately. Though we don't follow international standards. A ticket for a nice movie in the best cinema in the city (located @ MS Center) is about £4...just the ticket alone, plus a bucket of popcorn and beverage will cost you £1 each.
Close enough. :yes:

Yep. Popcorn costs almost as much as the movie. Crazy. I pay about £5 for some. And for a drink £3, when you can get it for 60p, both of them elsewhere. So I do

Paperyostrich

January 19th, 2013, 10:46 AM

Insane indeed. With that amount of money you could build 2/3 big houses in a nice area here.
There are people who spend their money on that,,,smh.

In London there are apartments for sale for 52 million, so is people will pay for that, they'll pay for anything.

musiccity

January 28th, 2013, 02:48 AM

I've been looking at Maputo on Google Earth and it looks like there are some towers U/C near Hotel VIP. Does anyone know anything?

Kangaroo MZ

January 28th, 2013, 03:12 AM

Looked at it..will try to find out.

Kangaroo MZ

January 28th, 2013, 05:15 PM

Floods are worsening.
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/blog/africa/trouble-brewing-mozambique-camps

http://allafrica.com/stories/201301260402.html

Paperyostrich

January 28th, 2013, 07:33 PM

Floods are worsening.
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/blog/africa/trouble-brewing-mozambique-camps

http://allafrica.com/stories/201301260402.html

I saw about the floods on BBC news. Bad indeed.

kitabulu

January 28th, 2013, 11:56 PM

I've been looking at Maputo on Google Earth and it looks like there are some towers U/C near Hotel VIP. Does anyone know anything?

Must be the Vodafone and JAT V buildings, but it seem that some other new ones are under construction or just about finished.

musiccity

January 29th, 2013, 11:01 AM

Must be the Vodafone and JAT V buildings, but it seem that some other new ones are under construction or just about finished.

Here is what I'm talking about

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8082/8290109285_2ce499345b_b.jpg

Kangaroo MZ

January 29th, 2013, 11:37 AM

It can't be the JAT and Vodacom ones. They are finished... it's something new.

Edificio Vodacom e JAT - Baixa

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/304950_268519209845390_777395182_n.jpg

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/321029_268522373178407_1715684117_n.jpg

Paperyostrich

January 30th, 2013, 12:06 AM

It shall be intresting to see what springs up there in the future

Kangaroo MZ

January 30th, 2013, 12:14 AM

All that space in the 3 pictures used to be bush not a long ago (i mean, less than 5 years ago there was nothing there). It's amazing how things can change before our eyes LoL.

DanielFigFoz

January 30th, 2013, 02:13 AM

All that space in the 3 pictures used to be bush not a long ago (i mean, less than 5 years ago there was nothing there). It's amazing how things can change before our eyes LoL.

Now you sound like my mum, after leaving Mozambique she was in Portugal for 5 years, and when we moved there in 2003 she was always saying 'none of this existed, none of this existed' :lol:

Also, I had assumed that Paperyostrich lived in the capital of Zimbabwe

Kangaroo MZ

January 30th, 2013, 02:37 AM

LoL sounds like your mom rocks! :lol:

Papery is british...he lives in england or scotland i think...no it's england.

DanielFigFoz

January 30th, 2013, 02:50 AM

Well the Salisbury in the UK is most certainly in England (in the West Country), a very nice city it is

musiccity

January 30th, 2013, 06:03 AM

Papery is American

Kangaroo MZ

January 30th, 2013, 06:04 AM

He told me he was from britain

musiccity

January 30th, 2013, 06:05 AM

He lied

Kangaroo MZ

January 30th, 2013, 06:07 AM

how can you be so sure?

DanielFigFoz

January 30th, 2013, 09:58 PM

In the last page he said 'Here in England'. I suppose it's likely that there's an Anerican Salisbury too

Kangaroo MZ

January 30th, 2013, 10:58 PM

and his profile says he's from England. Musiccity is trolling us :troll:

DanielFigFoz

January 31st, 2013, 12:05 AM

Talvez

Paperyostrich

January 31st, 2013, 10:14 AM

Stop arguing about me! haha. I'm English, and from Salisbury in the UK, which I have lived all of my life. I've never been to Zimbabwe or America either. And yeah the city is very nice indeed, abelit a bit dirty, but hey ho.

popa1980

January 31st, 2013, 12:12 PM

It just occurred to me that Maputo looks in better shape than Luanda. The buildings look better kept and you have less of those concrete communist blocks. Why is this? Luanda was equally if not more developed at independence?

popa1980

January 31st, 2013, 12:13 PM

popa1980

January 31st, 2013, 12:26 PM

Yes I have heard about PROMAPUTO. It's a good Idea. I hope that in the next few years all the buildings are put into a good condition again, Some cities E.G Beira need that more than anything. The buildings there are in an absolute terrible condition.

Talking about Beira I heard that the government purposly has money directed from it because they support RENAMO. Is that true? Because if it is then it's pretty discusting that thats happening. I mean isn't Beira Mozambiques 3rd most important city :nuts:

Yeah, I have a friend in the UK whose parents were Indians from Mozambique (THEY call themselves Indians before you say anything). They always remember growing up in Beira and said it was amazing. When they went back some 10 years ago they were saddened by the decay and have never returned. The luxury house they lived in was now some sort of informal housing.

There is a wonderful book called "Recordacoes de Lourenco Marques". Its a collection of urban photos from late colonial times. You will probably cry when you look at it though.

DanielFigFoz

January 31st, 2013, 02:49 PM

I have some book like that. I've seen photos of Beira 10 years ago and Beira now and it seems much better now.

I think Maputo looks better than Luanda because it's greener.

Paperyostrich

January 31st, 2013, 05:35 PM

Wait, but your parents are from "Rhodesia"? Thats what I thought.

Nope. I know nobody from Rhodesia (I dunno where everyone is getting that from) Me and my parents and all my family are from the UK

Paperyostrich

January 31st, 2013, 05:39 PM

I have some book like that. I've seen photos of Beira 10 years ago and Beira now and it seems much better now.

I think Maputo looks better than Luanda because it's greener.

Beira looks alot better than it did even years ago, but it's still a far cry brom Beira circa 1975, but at least it's heading in the right direction.

I also prefer Maputo to Luanda. To me Luanda is too messy, dirty and polluted. And despite haveing some brilliant economic growth, outside of the CBD (or the waterfront of you want to be specific) Then everything is a mess. The buildings are run down and dirty, roads are missing sidewalks, trash everwhere, and roads covered in potholes. Luanda can afford to build a nice shiny waterfront, but not pave a road. It's a shame as it has a lot of potential.

popa1980

January 31st, 2013, 05:54 PM

Beira looks alot better than it did even years ago, but it's still a far cry brom Beira circa 1975, but at least it's heading in the right direction.

I also prefer Maputo to Luanda. To me Luanda is too messy, dirty and polluted. And despite haveing some brilliant economic growth, outside of the CBD (or the waterfront of you want to be specific) Then everything is a mess. The buildings are run down and dirty, roads are missing sidewalks, trash everwhere, and roads covered in potholes. Luanda can afford to build a nice shiny waterfront, but not pave a road. It's a shame as it has a lot of potential.

You will get the Angolans angry!

I met a British diplomat recently who worked in Luanda for 2 years and pretty much hated it. He said Maputo was nicer, cleaner, more relaxed and less congested.

popa1980

January 31st, 2013, 05:55 PM

Nope. I know nobody from Rhodesia (I dunno where everyone is getting that from) Me and my parents and all my family are from the UK

Maybe its the "Salisbury". LOL.

Paperyostrich

January 31st, 2013, 06:17 PM

You will get the Angolans angry!

I met a British diplomat recently who worked in Luanda for 2 years and pretty much hated it. He said Maputo was nicer, cleaner, more relaxed and less congested.

Well they're an angry bunch anyway. I've seen how they have mauled on you on some of those forums, but that's a different story.

It's my opinion, and anyway critisism is good, and it's also plain to see. Luanda is not perfect, why, nowhere is, even the Scandinavian cities of Oslo and Helsinki aren't. Everyone is free to give their opinion and not everyone will like it, but that's life.

DanielFigFoz

January 31st, 2013, 07:28 PM

Beira looks alot better than it did even years ago, but it's still a far cry brom Beira circa 1975, but at least it's heading in the right direction.

I also prefer Maputo to Luanda. To me Luanda is too messy, dirty and polluted. And despite haveing some brilliant economic growth, outside of the CBD (or the waterfront of you want to be specific) Then everything is a mess. The buildings are run down and dirty, roads are missing sidewalks, trash everwhere, and roads covered in potholes. Luanda can afford to build a nice shiny waterfront, but not pave a road. It's a shame as it has a lot of potential.

I don't think that the Beira of now, with all the renovation is overly distant from what it once was, look at the cinemas for example. It's still a nice looking city, especially the residential roads.

The hotel has been like that for a long while, before 1975.

Maybe its the "Salisbury". LOL.

Yeah, that's what I had assumed, my fault :lol:

Kangaroo MZ

January 31st, 2013, 07:35 PM

Yeah, I have a friend in the UK whose parents were Indians from Mozambique (THEY call themselves Indians before you say anything). They always remember growing up in Beira and said it was amazing. When they went back some 10 years ago they were saddened by the decay and have never returned. The luxury house they lived in was now some sort of informal housing.

There is a wonderful book called "Recordacoes de Lourenco Marques". Its a collection of urban photos from late colonial times. You will probably cry when you look at it though.

Most of our cities were planned for a specific number of people. Maputo for example was planned for few than 500.000 people. now it has a lot more than thrice of that number due to people moving there (the same for Luanda) as a result of the civil war.

I am one of those people who think that it was a big mistake for the white population to leave the country in 1975 because locals did lack the skills and knowledge needed to run the city and maintain the infrastructure there.

Kangaroo MZ

January 31st, 2013, 07:40 PM

I don't think that the Beira of now, with all the renovation is overly distant from what it once was, look at the cinemas for example. It's still a nice looking city, especially the residential roads.

The hotel has been like that for a long while, before 1975.

Yeah, that's what I had assumed, my fault :lol:

Beira is a very beautiful city. My mother went there when she was little and the city had some beautiful canals, green spaces...

Oh the hotel -- one of the greatest in the country. :(
read this: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/01/in-mozambique-a-glorious-inn-becomes-a-slum/272533/

Kangaroo MZ

January 31st, 2013, 09:21 PM

This is getting worse. I gave some clean clothes and other materials as a donation... it's the best i can do.
Putin sends condolences over Mozambique flood

Russia’s President Vladimir Putin has sent condolences and words of support to his Mozambique counterpart Armando Guebuza over numerous victims and destruction caused by heavy flooding.

The death toll from Mozambique floods has climbed to at least 70 people while some 150,000 were forced to flee. :(

The floods, which have mostly hit the southern area, are the result of days of torrential rains.
Voice of Russia, RIA

DanielFigFoz

January 31st, 2013, 09:27 PM

I think they should renovate the hotel and make it social housing. A good use of the building I think.

Ainda quase não ouvi nada sobre as inundações. :(

popa1980

January 31st, 2013, 09:29 PM

Beira is a very beautiful city. My mother went there when she was little and the city had some beautiful canals, green spaces...

Oh the hotel -- one of the greatest in the country. :(
read this: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/01/in-mozambique-a-glorious-inn-becomes-a-slum/272533/

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/7872/hotelmozambique.jpg

This is nonsense of course because it decayed UNDER colonial rule.

There are a lot of people who believe that Africans are incapable of developing a country. Some of the comments I have seen on youtube videos (about Mozambique) by Portuguese people are truly shocking. There are a lot of bitter Rhodesians, Portuguese people etc who wish these countries to fail as proof that Africans should never have had power there. I hope Africa can prove them wrong.

Kangaroo MZ

January 31st, 2013, 09:31 PM

acho que o estado em que se encontra o edificio nao permitira nenhum tipo de renovacoes... o melhor, eu acho, seria demolir e levantar-se um outro. :dunno:

Kangaroo MZ

January 31st, 2013, 09:32 PM

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/7872/hotelmozambique.jpg

hurts but it's true kinda...

popa1980

January 31st, 2013, 09:40 PM

acho que o estado em que se encontra o edificio nao permitira nenhum tipo de renovacoes... o melhor, eu acho, seria demolir e levantar-se um outro. :dunno:

Pode ser. Eu acordo. Nao vale a pena pra manter-lo.

Kangaroo MZ

January 31st, 2013, 09:41 PM

:lol:

popa1980

January 31st, 2013, 09:43 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYywEVzyVLI

DanielFigFoz

January 31st, 2013, 10:11 PM

That before and after photo is bollocks. The hotel was unused andnthereforenwould have been abandoned before independence had it not come sooner. There's a nrand knew huge totally unused hotel in Figueira now. Things get abandoned in Europe

Os tuistas pararam de vir antes, por causa da guerra colonial

DanielFigFoz

January 31st, 2013, 10:19 PM

This is nonsense of course because it decayed UNDER colonial rule. .
Completamente!

acho que o estado em que se encontra o edificio nao permitira nenhum tipo de renovacoes... o melhor, eu acho, seria demolir e levantar-se um outro. :dunno:

Tens razão :(

Desculpem pelo DP, não sei copiar e colar no telemóvel.

Kangaroo MZ

January 31st, 2013, 10:51 PM

This is nonsense of course because it decayed UNDER colonial rule.

There are a lot of people who believe that Africans are incapable of developing a country. Some of the comments I have seen on youtube videos (about Mozambique) by Portuguese people are truly shocking. There are a lot of bitter Rhodesians, Portuguese people etc who wish these countries to fail as proof that Africans should never have had power there. I hope Africa can prove them wrong.

I know it decayed under colonial rule. but there are several other buildings that could be more preserved but aren't simply because the current government can't do shit.

Paperyostrich

February 1st, 2013, 12:03 AM

I know it decayed under colonial rule. but there are several other buildings that could be more preserved but aren't simply because the current government can't do shit.

The hotel has been like that since at least the 1960's. Sad really. There are buildings that can be preserved, but I don't think it's a case of just being able to renovate and restore them. If it was that easy then the government would probably be doing that by now. I think there are issues with things like land laws and property rights, things the government should sort out.

As Mozambique and its cities and towns grow richer, then I'm sure more attention will be paid to looking after buildings, but saying that, not all rich countries have good looking buildings. Have you seen some of the public housing in Hong Kong and Macau, even French Guiana

Paperyostrich

February 1st, 2013, 12:08 AM

I am one of those people who think that it was a big mistake for the white population to leave the country in 1975 because locals did lack the skills and knowledge needed to run the city and maintain the infrastructure there.

It was a big mistake, but in most cases they had no choice. I'm not sure if I'm right on this one, but didn't the president threaten to kill the Portuguese if they didn't leave as he preached rasict hate speaches up and down the colony before independece? Also some of the Portuguese were killed by the "natives" on the dawn of independence. If I was one of the Portuguese, then I know for a fact that I wouldn't want to stay there is that's how the government saw me. They chickened out and left, and after seeing what happened to them in neighbouring colonies (Belgian Congo was a brilliant example) then I suppose they didn't want that times 5 in all the colonies. That's for Mozambique, I don't know about Angola, and I don't even know if any Portuguese lived in STP, Guinea Bissau or Cape Verde?

DanielFigFoz

February 1st, 2013, 12:34 AM

It was a big mistake, but in most cases they had no choice. I'm not sure if I'm right on this one, but didn't the president threaten to kill the Portuguese if they didn't leave as he preached rasict hate speaches up and down the colony before independece? Also some of the Portuguese were killed by the "natives" on the dawn of independence. If I was one of the Portuguese, then I know for a fact that I wouldn't want to stay there is that's how the government saw me. They chickened out and left, and after seeing what happened to them in neighbouring colonies (Belgian Congo was a brilliant example) then I suppose they didn't want that times 5 in all the colonies. That's for Mozambique, I don't know about Angola, and I don't even know if any Portuguese lived in STP, Guinea Bissau or Cape Verde?

Some were forced out, but most left of their own choice. In my family one of my white aunts was forced out, but for another reason, but everyone else in the family left voluntarily, including (especially-mixed race people were hated by everyone :() the non-white members.

Some weren't forced to leave, my mum's old neighbours are still there.

Also, a lot of non-white people left as well.

The Portuguese government attempted to get everyone to stay in Africa, as the Portuguese economy was in the craps after the government spent all the money on the war, and the people who went to Portugal weren't at all welcome there either and people still complain about that but never mind.

The case in Angola, for the white people, was worse than Mozambique, in that a fair amount (not a big amount, but some) were killed. A lot of Angolans just drove to Namibia or to Luanda and barged themselves onto ships or planes. I remember hearing of one family that was driving to Luanda which decided they had more to loose by leaving and returned to where they came from, and I'm sure they weren't unique.

Kangaroo MZ

February 1st, 2013, 01:26 AM

It was a big mistake, but in most cases they had no choice. I'm not sure if I'm right on this one, but didn't the president threaten to kill the Portuguese if they didn't leave as he preached rasict hate speaches up and down the colony before independece? Also some of the Portuguese were killed by the "natives" on the dawn of independence. If I was one of the Portuguese, then I know for a fact that I wouldn't want to stay there is that's how the government saw me. They chickened out and left, and after seeing what happened to them in neighbouring colonies (Belgian Congo was a brilliant example) then I suppose they didn't want that times 5 in all the colonies. That's for Mozambique, I don't know about Angola, and I don't even know if any Portuguese lived in STP, Guinea Bissau or Cape Verde?

It wasn't exactly like that. you know when Frelimo asked for independence they didn't want a war with Portugal in the first place, they wanted to get independence through peaceful methods.

It wasn't until 1964 or so that Frelimo realised that they wouldn't get it peacefully so they started creating guerrilla forces with support from Tanzania and some farmers in northern Mozambique... you probably know the story...

It took a military coup to allow a cease-fire between the 2 countries but the white people still did not like the idea of being governed by what they saw as a black terrorist group.. so again they tried a coup d'etat against Frelimo but it was put down by both Frelimo and the new Portuguese administration forces.

^^ that coup d'etat attempt and the hatred accumulated for centuries of oppression is what provoked the tension between the locals and whites [i.e the dawn of independence incident, etc]...

The whites didn't trust Frelimo and the locals no longer trusted the whites..., the fear of reprisals and the communist ideologies led them to leave to Portugal not violence.

DanielFigFoz

February 1st, 2013, 01:39 AM

It wasn't exactly like that. you know when Frelimo asked for independence they didn't want a war with Portugal in the first place, they wanted to get independence through peaceful methods.

It wasn't until 1964 or so that Frelimo realised that they wouldn't get it peacefully so they started creating guerrilla forces with support from Tanzania and some farmers in northern Mozambique... you probably know the story...

It took a military coup (the one that killed Salazar) to allow a cease-fire between the 2 countries but the white people still did not like the idea of being governed by what they saw as a black terrorist group.. so again they tried a coup d'etat against Frelimo but it was put down by both Frelimo and the new Portuguese administration forces.

^^ that coup d'etat attempt and the hatred accumulated for centuries of oppression is what provoked the tension between the locals and whites [i.e the dawn of independence incident, etc]...

The whites didn't trust Frelimo and the locals no longer trusted the whites..., the fear of reprisals and the communist ideologies led them to leave to Portugal not violence.

Agreed. Apart from the bit I put in bold. Salazar was long dead by then and the leader at the time was sent to Brazil.

The truth of the matter is that the white people weren't going to let themselves be governed by black people, except for the liberal ones. Even the mixed race people weren't.

Most of my family still hate Frelimo and the Portuguese government. I don't feel sorry for my family them really, none of them have a bad life now, they were lucky they were mostly state employees, meaning that whilst they lost the money they had, they still got a pension from the Portuguese government

Kangaroo MZ

February 1st, 2013, 01:43 AM

sorry i mistook

popa1980

February 1st, 2013, 02:06 AM

Kangaroo MZ

February 1st, 2013, 02:40 AM

Agreed. Apart from the bit I put in bold. Salazar was long dead by then and the leader at the time was sent to Brazil.
I edited the part. I was confusing this. I am referring to the 1974 coup in Lisbon which was important not only to bring democracy to Portugal, but it was the first step for independence of the colonies.

The truth of the matter is that the white people weren't going to let themselves be governed by black people, except for the liberal ones. Even the mixed race people weren't.
Yeah. But there are those who stayed.. among those who stayed some were given high positions within the government, and some live a very good life (even better than blacks) till today. And some are very famous and proud of their nation: João Paulo Borges Coelho, Mia Couto, Carlos Cardoso (RIP) just to name a few.

Most of my family still hate Frelimo and the Portuguese government. I don't feel sorry for my family them really, none of them have a bad life now, they were lucky they were mostly state employees, meaning that whilst they lost the money they had, they still got a pension from the Portuguese government

I had to deal with a portuguese lady [who absolutely hates Frelimo] once on Facebook. It was a lady who lived in Nampula and had to leave to Portugal.. she said she'd create a time machine to prevent the Carnation Revolution from happening.

Contrary to people's beliefs most of them weren't welcomed with open arms when they arrived. They were called "retornados", weren't considered portuguese and suffered some serious xenophobia when they arrived in Portugal...the negative stereotypes were severe.

Kangaroo MZ

February 1st, 2013, 02:46 AM

Very mature and decent discussion. This isnt Oasis!

That is the heart of the matter, these people for years had lived under a privileged position in society and wouldnt have accepted it any other way. Ive had several arguments online with some of these Portuguese people, actually, normally the children of those who left who have obviously been told a twisted history by their parents.

They did get second class treatment in Portugal though. It was short but they did treat them like crap. It would have been the same (or perhaps better) if they stayed and fought for their nation - to create a new Mozambique..instead of fleeing like herds (although I don't blame them).

DanielFigFoz

February 1st, 2013, 02:51 AM

Totally agree with everything you and popa just said.

When my mum got to Lisbon someone said to her 'és café com leite?) and people really hurled abuse at the retornados in the street, 'voltem para onde vieram! Vocês estão a roubar os nossos empregos, não são portugueses'. Then they got used to the retournados

Also, fighting for a free and equal Mozambique?! Not likely. I think in Angola it would have been more lilely, white Angolans seemed to be morw emotionally tied to Angola than to Portugal and I don't think that was the case for Mozambique.

Kangaroo MZ

February 1st, 2013, 03:21 AM

Why do you think they weren't?

popa1980

February 1st, 2013, 11:47 AM

I wish you were here a few years ago when I had a VERY heated debate for 5 days on Oasis with Matt and a portuguese guy whose parents left Moz. He wouldnt accept the truth.

Seriously, dont ever go on those youtube videos, the comments there will make you crazy. I think these people are the most bitter out of the European settlers who left Africa. More bitter than the French who left Algeria, or even the Rhodesians. I assume they are the most bitter because of the lifestyle they were going back to. The average quality of life for a Portuguese settler was better than for the average Portuguese person back home.

DanielFigFoz

February 1st, 2013, 12:08 PM

Why do you think they weren't?
I think that, in general, the Portuguese people in Mozambique had beenn there less long, whereas they have been in Angola for generations and generations.

Of course there were some that considered themselces Mozambican over Portuguese, vut I kust get the impression this was more the case with Angola

I wish you were here a few years ago when I had a VERY heated debate for 5 days on Oasis with Matt and a portuguese guy whose parents left Moz. He wouldnt accept the truth.

Seriously, dont ever go on those youtube videos, the comments there will make you crazy. I think these people are the most bitter out of the European settlers who left Africa. More bitter than the French who left Algeria, or even the Rhodesians. I assume they are the most bitter because of the lifestyle they were going back to. The average quality of life for a Portuguese settler was better than for the average Portuguese person back home.

Oh certainly, most fomer settlers never regained the lifestyle they had.
I think anther factor was that the revolution in Portugal and independence was a hufe shicknto them. Huge shock.

popa1980

February 1st, 2013, 01:18 PM

I think that, in general, the Portuguese people in Mozambique had beenn there less long, whereas they have been in Angola for generations and generations.

Of course there were some that considered themselces Mozambican over Portuguese, vut I kust get the impression this was more the case with Angola

Oh certainly, most fomer settlers never regained the lifestyle they had.
I think anther factor was that the revolution in Portugal and independence was a hufe shicknto them. Huge shock.

Actually, in both Angola AND Moz, most European settlers were quite new unlike in South Africa for example. Settlers had been in Angola for centuries but in very small numbers. It was not until much the 1920s that "real" immigration started.

I think these cities were the most charming in Africa, even more so that most SA cities, they had more of the European character I love in cities.

It must have been really depressing to go back to post-revolution Portugal.

Paperyostrich

February 1st, 2013, 03:34 PM

Actually, in both Angola AND Moz, most European settlers were quite new unlike in South Africa for example. Settlers had been in Angola for centuries but in very small numbers. It was not until much the 1920s that "real" immigration started.

I think these cities were the most charming in Africa, even more so that most SA cities, they had more of the European character I love in cities.

It must have been really depressing to go back to post-revolution Portugal.

The cities are still charming in their own way. Maputo, is still a beautiful city (well the CBD is anyway) And, despite being a bit neglected I still see it as one of the most beautiful and charming cities on the entire African continent. In Angola as well, the city of Huambo is also very beautiful, and although some buildings need to be refurbished still, very good progress has been made.

As for the immigration, from the 1920's to about 1973 the real boom period began, but after that it all went downhill.

DanielFigFoz

February 1st, 2013, 04:58 PM

Actually, in both Angola AND Moz, most European settlers were quite new unlike in South Africa for example. Settlers had been in Angola for centuries but in very small numbers. It was not until much the 1920s that "real" immigration started.

I think these cities were the most charming in Africa, even more so that most SA cities, they had more of the European character I love in cities.

It must have been really depressing to go back to post-revolution Portugal.

Oh yes, but there were farmers and such that had been in Angola for ages, more so than in Mozambique where pretty much everyone was relatively recent.

Yeah it must have been depressing going from a nice house in Maputo or Beira or Nampula to an old hotel in Portugal or to a shanty town in Lisbon near the airport

Kangaroo MZ

February 1st, 2013, 05:03 PM

How did your mother end up in PT? Did they leave after or before 25 de Junho?

DanielFigFoz

February 1st, 2013, 05:30 PM

The family left gradually.

My mum left on the 25th May with her brother, her stepmother and her sisters children. I suppose they wanted to get the children out of Mozambique before independence. Some family had already left, others not

Kangaroo MZ

February 1st, 2013, 05:58 PM

Kangaroo MZ

February 1st, 2013, 05:59 PM

Dual citizenship isn't allowed but there are some people who have lol like my dad.. he has Moz and SA citizenships.

DanielFigFoz

February 1st, 2013, 06:09 PM

Interesting. Were they given portuguese citizenship (or perhaps it wasn't needed since they were already considered as such)? and how did they survive upon their arrival?

I am not sure if they can obtain Mozambican citizenship right now, but there are some people who are returning and asking the government to give them. the only problem is that dual citizenship is not officially allowed.

They mostly worked for the Portuguese government in some way or another (CTT and stuff) they got pensions. The younger ones opened businesses, my grand father just retired.

They were all already Portuguese citizens, but untill the 25th April they didn't have equal rights to people in Portugal. They could choose between keeping Portuguese citizenship or becoming Mozambican. Some did choose the latter but left after a few years. (Portufal does allow dual nationality, and as far as the POrtuguese goverment was concernes they were still Portuguese)

Also, I can't speak for Mozambique as a whole but in Beira Frelimo was aleady in control six months before independence.

Lino

February 1st, 2013, 06:45 PM

Há um livro chamado "A Árvore das Palavras" de Teolinda Gersão que aborda Moçambique pré-independência.

Os Retornados... está a dar uma série na RTP sobre o assunto, as pessoas eram mal consideradas... havia um certo ódio dos da metrópole em relação a quem vinha para o país, eram chamados de fascistas... mas os "retornados" eram pessoas bem empreendedoras...
Muitos perderam tudo ou muita coisa (tal como alguma família minha que veio de Angola) e, por exemplo, a minha mãe teve de vir de Angola antes da guerra (quando começaram os problemas), e ainda olham com alguma amargura para a terra de origem. Pena do que deixaram e de como ficou.

O 25 de Abril era algo necessário... o problema foi que não se trabalhou previamente sobre o "e depois" da revolução. Não houve um plano para o Ultramar, para o fim da guerra... houve a revolução, entregou-se o país aos generais da Junta de Salvação Nacional, depois foi a quase guerra civil entre partidos e movimentos, depois os políticos tomaram conta do país.... e foi tudo feito a correr, nada negociado... e daí também as guerras civis.

DanielFigFoz

February 1st, 2013, 06:52 PM

Pois, acho que estamos todos de acordo sobre este assunto neste thread :lol:

Kangaroo MZ

February 2nd, 2013, 11:13 PM

the rain's done its work already :lol:
http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/580593_460170580699325_815474463_n.jpg

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/486075_517345588310390_275776634_n.jpg

Paperyostrich

February 2nd, 2013, 11:15 PM

What happened there?

musiccity

February 2nd, 2013, 11:15 PM

Is that a highway? :eek:

And where in Moz is this?

Kangaroo MZ

February 2nd, 2013, 11:19 PM

What happened there?
A road that was U/C was destroyed by the rain waters.
Is that a highway? :eek:

And where in Moz is this?

Maputo.

Paperyostrich

February 2nd, 2013, 11:29 PM

[QUOTE=Kangaroo MZ;99857963]A road that was U/C was destroyed by the rain waters.

Oh dear

DanielFigFoz

February 3rd, 2013, 01:04 AM

Hora de re-começar :(

Kangaroo MZ

February 3rd, 2013, 09:57 PM

Infelizmente. As chuvas ja nao caem com muita intensidade e os ventos tambem nao sao tao impetuosos quanto antes...

DanielFigFoz

February 4th, 2013, 12:42 AM

Ainda bem

Jurisna

February 23rd, 2013, 03:16 PM

As propostas de revisão constitucional são mínimas, mesmo assim a comissão está aberta a discussões a outras propostas, acham que as propostas deviriam abranger o sistema político/ou de governação moçambicano?? Qual o sistema que acham que deveríamos ter em Moçambique: Presidencialista (ex: sistema Norte-Americano), Semi-Presidencialista (ex: sistema Português) ou Parlamentarista (ex: sistema Britânico)??

WVFbsW3gqgk

Jurisna

February 23rd, 2013, 03:37 PM

Universidade Nova de Lisboa vai formar Executivos em Moçambique, criando assim a "Universidade Nova de Moçambique". A Universidade Nova de Lisboa é considerada pela Financial Times estar entre as 30 melhores Faculdades de de Economia e Gestão da Europa.

http://www.rm.co.mz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7334%3Auniversidade-nova-de-lisboa-vai-formar-executivos-em-mocambique&catid=71%3Arecomendado&Itemid=199

Kangaroo MZ

February 23rd, 2013, 03:40 PM

Kangaroo MZ

February 23rd, 2013, 03:42 PM

[url]http://www.rm.co.mz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7334%3Auniversidade-nova-de-lisboa-vai-formar-executivos-em-mocambique&catid=71%3Arecomendado&Itemid=199[/IMG]

http://www.rm.co.mz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7334%3Auniversidade-nova-de-lisboa-vai-formar-executivos-em-mocambique&catid=71%3Arecomendado&Itemid=199

Universidade Nova de Lisboa vai formar Executivos em Moçambique
Qua, 13 de Fevereiro de 2013 02:08

A Nova School of Business & Economics (Nova SBE), a designação da Faculdade de Economia da Universidade Nova de Lisboa, em Portugal, prepara-se para abrir uma escola em Moçambique que terá como principal objectivo a Formação de Executivos.

Trata-se da escola "Nova Mozambique" cujo lançamento está previsto para o dia 20 de Fevereiro corrente, no Hotel Polana, na capital moçambicana.

Esta informação foi confirmada por Cátia Batista, directora Executiva do NOVAFRICA, um centro de produção de conhecimento em desenvolvimento sustentável para os mercados africanos de lingua portuguesa, numa breve conversa com a AIM, em Lisboa.

Em Moçambique, segundo a Professora Cátia Batista, o NOVAFRICA tem já vários projectos em curso, nomeadamente no que diz respeito ao Mobile Banking, desenvolvido em parceria com a operadora de telefonia móvel Mcel.

No projecto Mobile Banking, os promotores da iniciativa trabalham igualmente com o Ministério da Planificação e Desenvolvimento e com o Banco de Moçambique.

Segundo dados oficiais, em Moçambique, apenas 20 por cento da população adulta possui conta bancária de depósito e crédito,
uma fasquia muito abaixo da média registada ao nível dos países da Comunidade para o Desenvolvimento da Africa Austral (SADC), que em 2010 era de 38,9 por cento.

"A equipa que vai liderar a escola em Moçambique é a mesma equipa de professores da (Universidade) Nova (de Lisboa) que se encontra responsável pelo NOVAFRICA", sublinhou Cátia Batista.

O surgimento da "Nova Mozambique" ocorre numa altura em que o volume de investimentos em Moçambique exige não só a formação a
nível superior, bem como na necessidade do "saber fazer".

(RM/AIM)

Jurisna

February 23rd, 2013, 04:21 PM

Professor Finn Tarp, Director of UNU-WIDER and Assistant Professor Sam Jones, University of Copenhagen -- Delivering good jobs in Mozambique: progress, problems, and possibilities

JZYsUiodugc

Kangaroo MZ

February 23rd, 2013, 04:50 PM

Jurisna

February 23rd, 2013, 04:57 PM

Eu pessoalmente não percebo muito de politica e muito menos de sistemas de governo. :lol: Mas ao meu ver, um sistema de governo que reduz poderes do PR e "fortalece" o resto do Governo e o Parlamento seria melhor. Como exemplo tomo o Canadá onde o chefe de Estado e chefe de governo são pessoas diferentes e com funções diferentes.

Basicamente um sistema politico democrático difere três poderes separadamente exercidos: o Poder Executivo, o Poder Legislativo e o Poder Judiciário. A Constituição diz expressamente qual o órgão soberano que actua sob esses mesmos poderes.

Então defendes uma redução de poderes do presidente, e a transferência desses mesmos poderes nomeadamente executivos (condução e execução das várias politicas, sejam elas económicas, sociais, etc, essas competências vão ser expressamente definidas na constituição) para um outro órgão o "Governo" que nasce do partido mais votado da eleição da composição da Assembleia da República/Parlamento (o que implicaria uma alteração ao sistema eleitoral consequentemente), o Parlamento tem o poder legislativo (criar as leis e aprova-las que resultam dos trabalhos do governo ou de iniciativa própria de acordo com as suas competência expressas também na constituição), o Poder Judiciário ficará para única e exclusivamente os Tribunais, isso é um sistema semi-presidencialista dependendo das funções do Presidente. O do Canadá é Parlamentarista, isto é cabe ao parlamento "independente" controlar toda a actividade política, legislativa e judiciária. Também não seria mau!

Kangaroo MZ

February 23rd, 2013, 05:15 PM

Basicamente um sistema politico democrático difere três poderes separadamente exercidos: o Poder Executivo, o Poder Legislativo e o Poder Judiciário. A Constituição diz expressamente qual o órgão soberano que actua sob esses mesmos poderes.

Então defendes uma redução de poderes do presidente, e a transferência desses mesmos poderes nomeadamente executivos (condução e execução das várias politicas, sejam elas económicas, sociais, etc, essas competências vão ser expressamente definidas na constituição) para um outro órgão o "Governo" que nasce do partido mais votado da eleição da composição da Assembleia da República/Parlamento (o que implicaria uma alteração ao sistema eleitoral consequentemente), o Parlamento tem o poder legislativo (criar as leis e aprova-las que resultam dos trabalhos do governo ou de iniciativa própria de acordo com as suas competência expressas também na constituição), o Poder Judiciário ficará para única e exclusivamente os Tribunais, isso é um sistema semi-presidencialista dependendo das funções do Presidente.

Não peguei quase nada, mas acho que é basicamente isso. Um sistema em que o poder não esta bastante centralizado num único partido ou numa única pessoa (que neste caso seria o Guebas e a Frelimo).

O do Canadá é Parlamentarista, isto é cabe ao parlamento "independente" controlar toda a actividade política, legislativa e judiciária. Também não seria mau!

Não seria mau, porem acho que nunca seria aprovado um sistema desses, visto que o Chefe de Estado não é eleito directamente pelo povo mas sim formado a partir da maioria partidária dentro do próprio parlamento.

Jurisna

February 23rd, 2013, 10:44 PM

^^ Achei a parte onde eles (o Sam Jones e Finn Tarp) deram rápidas opiniões sobre o que deve ser feito pra aliviar/reduzir a pobreza em grande escala (policy punchline - 22:00 min) muito interessante.

Interessante também foi a explicação que o Dr.Finn tentou dar a partir dos 3.10min, porquê que quando chagaram a 2002 a 2008 a taxa de pobreza se manteve ao passo que o crescimento económico aumentava, ele tentou explicar que as comunidades rurais apenas passaram a produzir mas para auto-consumo, porque não há infraestruturas e empresas de armazenamento suficientes para comprar esses produtos hortícolas aos agricultores para poderem ser colocados no mercado, principalmente o mercado do sul de Moçambique com maior poder de compra (Maputo e África do sul), ao mesmo passo ainda de poderem ser exportados, o Prof. Sam até deu um numero concreto que apenas existiam 600 empresas de armazenamento para - já não me lembro do numero- mas penso que cerca 10 milhões de produtores rurais existentes. Daí uma grande oportunidade de investimento nesse sector, não só iria aumentar a produtividade (pois iria incentivar ao produtor rural a produzir mais produtos porque havia alguém quem comprasse os seus produtos) como reduzir a pobreza pelo menos nas áreas predominantemente rurais.

Kangaroo MZ

February 23rd, 2013, 10:58 PM

E a comparação entre o Vietname e Moçambique me pareceu bastante justa. Dois países com níveis de crescimento económico bastante semelhantes, mas que diferem no que diz respeito a redução da pobreza. Em Moçambique temos o “growth without poverty reduction”, enquanto que no Vietname o crescimento económico e a taxa de redução da pobreza andam de mãos dadas.

Kangaroo MZ

February 23rd, 2013, 11:01 PM

Eis aqui um artigo bastante interessante que fala exactamente sobre isso.
http://www.crop.org/storypg.aspx?id=613&MenuNode=&zone=3

Jurisna

February 23rd, 2013, 11:07 PM

Não peguei quase nada, mas acho que é basicamente isso. Um sistema em que o poder não esta bastante centralizado num único partido ou numa única pessoa (que neste caso seria o Guebas e a Frelimo).

Não seria mau, porem acho que nunca seria aprovado um sistema desses, visto que o Chefe de Estado não é eleito directamente pelo povo mas sim formado a partir da maioria partidária dentro do próprio parlamento.

Mas o sistema moçambicano actual é democrático e existe separação de poderes (poder executivo-Presidente da república que é ao mesmo tempo Governo, poder legislativo- Presidente da República e parlamento e poder judiciário- Tribunais), isto é o partido é eleito pelo povo e depois compõem o parlamento em função da proporção do numero de votos adquiridos ou seja acabam sempre por ter maioria na maior parte dos casos, e elegem o Presidente da República que é o presidente do partido e ao mesmo tempo GOVERNO também para exercer o poder executivo e legislativo à semelhança do que acontece nos EU, no Brasil etc. Acho que deveríamos adoptar um sistema mais moderno e inovador como o do Brasil, que é uma simbiose/mistura do sistema parlamentarista com o presidencialista!

Kangaroo MZ

February 23rd, 2013, 11:09 PM

Estou a me referir ao poder do ramo executivo.

Jurisna

February 23rd, 2013, 11:22 PM

Agora na perspectiva dos portugueses!

Part.1

DG6mdl1VDy4

Part.2

aYolTZhrfBE

Jurisna

February 23rd, 2013, 11:26 PM

Estou a me referir ao poder do ramo executivo.

Compreendo, por o Presidente assumir o poder executivo torna-se ao mesmo tempo Governo. O que significa que preferias que houvesse um Governo órgão diferente do Presidente da República com menos poderes.

Kangaroo MZ

February 23rd, 2013, 11:31 PM

Exacto, ou mais ou menos por ai. ;)

Jurisna

February 24th, 2013, 12:58 AM

Mais uma breve exposição desta acerca do se está a passar em Tete

_Yo7JQ1aHK0

Kangaroo MZ

February 28th, 2013, 05:55 PM

A Guiné Equatorial, é o terceiro maior produtor de petróleo em África, e o maior parceiro dos EUA, a população é menos que um milhão e o PIB per capita ultrapassa o Reino Unido, Alemanha e Itália, mas a população vive com menos de 1 dólar por dia.

Zw-HY9FAZBs

Pra onde vai todo o dinheiro??
Que historia mais triste. Esse presidente então..

Jurisna

March 2nd, 2013, 07:14 PM

As propostas já começam a ser ouvidas. Mobilizem-se! Pois é uma oportunidade que está nas mãos do povo moçambicano, para que se pronunciem como querem ser governados. A Europa levou séculos a conquistar estes feitos e só o conseguiu pelo uso da força bélica, temos aqui uma oportunidade para mudar alguma coisa em moçambique para melhor.

fFkpAGFa-WI

DanielFigFoz

March 5th, 2013, 12:56 AM

Muito intressante!

blantyre bazaar

March 28th, 2013, 01:26 AM

Alo. Tudo bom por aqui?
Alama, kangaroo, kitabulo e todos mfanas.

Kangaroo MZ

March 28th, 2013, 01:44 AM

hey puto por onde andaste hein? Ainda tas em Maputo? :banana: ja temos forum proprio como vês!

blantyre bazaar

March 28th, 2013, 01:54 AM

Bem as vezes dava 1 espreitadinha, mas nao cnseguia fazer log in pk havia esquecido minha senha. :) fiquei meio assustado quando nao vi o forum de Moc no forun de angola.

Kangaroo MZ

March 28th, 2013, 02:17 AM

Vives em Maputo?

blantyre bazaar

March 28th, 2013, 02:27 AM

Ya man to na town. :okay:

Kangaroo MZ

March 28th, 2013, 02:31 AM

nice. Que fazes ultimamente? Job, facul?

xrtn2

March 28th, 2013, 06:40 AM

quanta girias americazadas:nuts:

blantyre bazaar

March 28th, 2013, 08:33 AM

:lol: olha so quem fala. Como vai, brazuca?

Kangaroo MZ

March 28th, 2013, 11:21 AM

quanta girias americazadas:nuts:

quais? :lol:

blantyre bazaar

March 28th, 2013, 07:35 PM

^^ deve estar a falar de 'job, town, man' :lol:
Eu estou estudando Matemática na uni. Tú?

KoloneL

March 29th, 2013, 09:22 PM

Obrigado

Kangaroo MZ

March 29th, 2013, 09:29 PM

Vous ne parlez pas français?

KoloneL

March 29th, 2013, 10:10 PM

No parlez francais

Kangaroo MZ

March 29th, 2013, 10:30 PM

pourquoi

blantyre bazaar

March 30th, 2013, 12:59 AM

Eish já se fala françês sr Kangaroo? :lol:

Kangaroo MZ

March 30th, 2013, 01:03 AM

Não tão bem. O básico. ;) Alias, nunca tive aulas algumas dessa língua. Tudo, ou melhor, o pouco que sei eh por conta própria. :lol:

blantyre bazaar

March 30th, 2013, 01:13 AM

Sabia que so podia ter mão do GT. :lol:

Kangaroo MZ

March 30th, 2013, 01:21 AM

Ham?

AceOfSpades

March 30th, 2013, 04:29 AM

Va te fuder Caralho !

Now this is a proper way to say Congratulations ! :D

KoloneL

March 30th, 2013, 07:10 AM

pourquoi

You don't speak French either BRO!

Kangaroo MZ

March 30th, 2013, 10:48 AM

Aces, :cheer:

@Kolonel, i don't but i am not congolese. You ARE SUPPOSED to. :lol:

blantyre bazaar

March 30th, 2013, 02:49 PM

Va te fuder Caralho !

Now this is a proper way to say Congratulations ! :D

:lol:

KoloneL

March 31st, 2013, 05:18 AM

Create a NAMPULA city thread

blantyre bazaar

March 31st, 2013, 09:52 AM

There is 1 already.

Rain Drops

April 2nd, 2013, 08:09 PM

fk yeah baby :banana: :banana:

:dance:

It should have been in eastern africa :colbert:

Kangaroo MZ

April 2nd, 2013, 08:13 PM

No, Tanzania should be where it belongs - South side. :lol:

alama

April 4th, 2013, 10:03 AM

Tanzania is an undecided child.

alama

April 4th, 2013, 10:04 AM

Pessoal, como vão as coisas em Moçambique?

Kangaroo MZ

April 4th, 2013, 02:02 PM

Ia tudo bem ate a madrugada de hoje quando o cao da casa comecou a ladrar. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/04/us-mozambique-raids-idUSBRE9330AR20130404)

kitabulu

April 4th, 2013, 11:12 PM

Pessoal, como vão as coisas em Moçambique?

http://www.verdade.co.mz/newsflash/36024-apos-ataque-da-policia-homens-da-renamo-assaltam-comando-policial-ha-quatro-mortos

Após a invasão da sede da Renamo, nesta quarta-feira (3), por agentes da Força de Intervenção Rápida (FIR), em Muxungué, distrito de Chibabava, na província central de Sofala, os elementos da Renamo atacaram na madrugada desta Quinta-feira (5) o comando distrital da polícia, onde resgataram os 15 homens que haviam sido detidos na véspera. Dos confrontos resultaram sete vítimas mortais e pelo menos 14 feridos.

Kangaroo MZ

April 4th, 2013, 11:33 PM

O que eu ainda estou por entender é por que eles (os da Renamo) estão em Gorongosa depois de todos esses anos desde que a guerra acabou?
É claro que eles vão assustar a população que vive nessas áreas que já foram severamente afectadas pela guerra um dia.

E as ameaças de guerra ou conflitos que são emitidas pelos porta-vozes da Renamo a cada ano que passa, ou ameaças de não-participação nas eleições, etc. So revela imaturidade da parte deles.

blantyre bazaar

April 6th, 2013, 04:20 PM

As FIR também não tinham nada que atacar a base deles ou levar cativo membros do outro lado só porque os patrões querem assim. Esse tipo de coisas devem sempre ser resolvidas na base do diálogo pois trata- se do bem estar dos moçambicanos que está em perigo.

Kangaroo MZ

April 6th, 2013, 08:11 PM

Nao defenda esses bandidos, Blatyre. Faca me favor.

Assista agora o Jornal da Noite na STV. :|

blantyre bazaar

April 6th, 2013, 08:13 PM

Meu Deus!! Que terror!

Kangaroo MZ

April 6th, 2013, 08:14 PM

Ves agora? Homens armados atacaram um autocarro e um camião, matando três pessoas e ferindo uma.

blantyre bazaar

April 6th, 2013, 08:20 PM

Espera ai. Eu não estava a defender a ninguém, mas os da Renamo só atacaram a polícia pra resgatar os companheiros que tinham sido presos num ataque da FIR no dia anterior nas suas instalações. Claro q violëncia não justifica nada...

Kangaroo MZ

April 6th, 2013, 08:28 PM

E esses tais companheiros foram presos porque...? Quer dizer, a policia ja nem pode fazer seu servico por medo da Renamo atacar. Give me a break!!

Olha so o que eles fizeran com estes pobres civis. assassinato!!

A luta política deve ser travada única e tão-somente nas bancadas do parlamento!!!

blantyre bazaar

April 6th, 2013, 08:32 PM

Epá se pensas que estou a defendé-los então que fiques no seu engano.
Eu somente não acho boa a atitude da FIR que eu acho que estão a trabalhar pra Frelimo. :|

Kangaroo MZ

April 6th, 2013, 08:38 PM

Puto, não há nenhuma razão para você ficar nervoso, though. Estamos apenas a ter um debate político. ;) O quê? De onde foi que você tirou isso? Eles estão lá para proteger as pessoas dos ataques da RENAMO, não para trabalhar pra Frelimo.

blantyre bazaar

April 6th, 2013, 08:41 PM

FIR atacou primeiro, ó cabeção. Eu só quero saber a razão que levou eles a fazer isso?

blantyre bazaar

April 6th, 2013, 08:45 PM

E quem está nervoso aqui? Tas a criar tempestade em copo de àgua, Kangaroo.

Kangaroo MZ

April 6th, 2013, 08:47 PM

http://www.noticias.mozmaniacos.com/2013/04/queremos-comunicar-ao-povo-que-a-renamo-esta-cansada-de-ser-humilhada.html

Kangaroo MZ

April 6th, 2013, 08:49 PM

FIR atacou primeiro, ó cabeção. Eu só quero saber a razão que levou eles a fazer isso?

E quem está nervoso aqui? Tas a criar tempestade em copo de àgua, Kangaroo.
@Bold :|

blantyre bazaar

April 6th, 2013, 09:00 PM

http://www.noticias.mozmaniacos.com/2013/04/queremos-comunicar-ao-povo-que-a-renamo-esta-cansada-de-ser-humilhada.html

versão dos factos: contigentes da FIR provenientes de Dondo dirigiram-se à sede distrital de Gondola, onde atacaram e alvejaram membros da Renamo. Agora diga me se isso não é provocação.

blantyre bazaar

April 6th, 2013, 09:02 PM

@Bold :|

estava apenas a ser irónico. :cheers:

Kangaroo MZ

April 6th, 2013, 09:06 PM

I am good. :)
É claro que ninguém vai concordar com o outro aqui, então vamos concordar em discordar, mano.

blantyre bazaar

April 6th, 2013, 09:09 PM

:lol:

Kangaroo MZ

April 6th, 2013, 09:17 PM

O que é mais preocupante para mim é que o Presidente não está fazendo nada. Em vez de enviar sua equipe da FIR, ele deve mase deixar o conforto no seu palácio na Ponta Vermelha e voar para Sofala para atender Dhlakama pessoalmente.

Kangaroo MZ

April 6th, 2013, 09:27 PM

Renamo não tem qualquer idéia do que eles estão fazendo.
Eles deviam estar no parlamento, na cidade, a estudar os problemas reais dos cidadãos deste país. Em vez disso, os gajos vão se esconder no mato para atacar e semear terror no meio dessas pessoas que mais tarde estarao a pedir votos.
Eles atacam as pessoas apenas para se vingar da Frelimo, mesmo sem saber que estão tirando vida de pessoas inocentes.
Quando estavamos todos felizes a celebrar a Páscoa, eles estavam planejando boicotar as eleições.

Kangaroo MZ

April 6th, 2013, 09:32 PM

A media internacional nao demora.
NYTMozambique: Political Violence Rises (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/06/world/africa/political-violence-rises-in-mozambique.html?_r=0)

More bellicose noises from Renamo (http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk/news/africa/64805/more-bellicose-noises-from-renamo.html)

Reuters Three dead in Mozambique bus shooting (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/06/us-mozambique-shooting-idUSBRE93509T20130406)

Jurisna

April 7th, 2013, 12:47 AM

Artigo 39
(Actos contrários à unidade nacional)
Todos os actos visando atentar contra a unidade nacional, prejudicar a harmonia
social, criar divisionismo, situações de privilégio ou discriminação com base na
cor, raça, sexo, origem étnica, lugar de nascimento, religião, grau de instrução,
posição social, condição física ou mental, estado civil dos pais, profissão ou
opção política, são punidos nos termos da lei.

Artigo 52
(Liberdade de associação)
1. Os cidadãos gozam da liberdade de associação.
2. As organizações sociais e as associações têm direito de prosseguir os seus
fins, criar instituições destinadas a alcançar os seus objectivos específicos e
possuir património para a realização das suas actividades, nos termos da lei.
3. São proibidas as associações armadas de tipo militar ou paramilitar e as que
promovam a violência, o racismo, a xenofobia ou que prossigam fins contrários à
lei.

Artigo 53
(Liberdade de constituir, participar e aderir a partidos políticos)
1. Todos os cidadãos gozam da liberdade de constituir ou participar em partidos
políticos.
2. A adesão a um partido político é voluntária e deriva da liberdade dos cidadãos
de se associarem em torno dos mesmos ideais políticos.

Artigo 77
(Recurso à violência armada)
É vedado aos partidos políticos preconizar ou recorrer à violência armada para
alterar a ordem política e social do país.

Estes foram alguns dos artigos que a Renamo violou, fora o acordo geral de paz de Roma. Estes são preceitos da Constituição da República de Moçambique, a Lei Mãe de um Estado de Direito e Democrático. Acho que já estão a chegar ao ponto de serem banidos ou no mínimo punidos nos termos da lei. Primeiro exigem a demissão do Governo eleito democraticamente, ou seja, de acordo com a vontade da maioria dos cidadãos moçambicanos. Depois ameaçam boicotar as eleições ou mesmo impedir, agora entram numa esquadra e matam 4 policias com a intenção de libertar alguns dos seus militantes. A Renamo tem que perceber que não está acima da lei, e está a tomar o caminho de uma organização terrorista (era o que mais faltava ter uma "ETA" em Moçambique).