The one who follows the crowd, will usually get no further than the crowd. The one who walks alone is likely to discover new places no one has ever been before.

Creativity in living is not without its attendant difficulties, for peculiarity breeds contempt. And the unfortunate thing about being ahead of your time is that when people finally realize you were right, they'll say it was obvious all along.

You have two choices in life: you can dissolve into the mainstream, or you can be distinct. To be distinct, you must be different. To be different, you must strive to be what no one else but you can be...

^^ A quote from Alan Ashley-Pitt :)

The one who follows the crowd, will usually get no further than the crowd. The one who walks alone is likely to discover new places no one has ever been before.

Creativity in living is not without its attendant difficulties, for peculiarity breeds contempt. And the unfortunate thing about being ahead of your time is that when people finally realize you were right, they'll say it was obvious all along.

You have two choices in life: you can dissolve into the mainstream, or you can be distinct. To be distinct, you must be different. To be different, you must strive to be what no one else but you can be...

Admirable first post.

[QUOTE=MANUTD;82817402]

Indeed, so let's see.

1) I don't have to buy any furnishings (or replace them when damaged).

2) I don't have to do any work to get an unfurnished 2 bed rented for a year in advance.

3) and I get 95,000AED paid in advance.

4) My ongoing damage costs are minimal on unfurnished.

I would call the furnished short term letting brigade busy fools, who, at the wrong times of the year, will struggle to get takers.

OK, I have to pay out same as the short term guys (agencies, rip off SP, etc), but at least I can forget about it now and I have a full year's revenue in the bank, earning interest (OK, being taken off my borrowing costs!).

The Torch

Man U - spot on analysis -

This thread seems to have become an advertising medium for short term rental providers - another Dubai variant of real estate shark!

I did the numbers of short terms rentals a while back and there's absolutely no point in using a third party as it kills the margin advantage stone dead. If you factor in voids, costs for cable/internet, DEWA, wear and tear, rip off management fee you're much better off doing annual lets on a vanilla unfurnished unit.

Is Property Magnet using these forums to push their services? - isn't this against forum rules?

[QUOTE=thetorch;82970851]

Man U - spot on analysis -

This thread seems to have become an advertising medium for short term rental providers - another Dubai variant of real estate shark!

I did the numbers of short terms rentals a while back and there's absolutely no point in using a third party as it kills the margin advantage stone dead. If you factor in voids, costs for cable/internet, DEWA, wear and tear, rip off management fee you're much better off doing annual lets on a vanilla unfurnished unit.

Is Property Magnet using these forums to push their services? - isn't this against forum rules?

crspn --before i incur wrath of Karen :lol:- i didn't post that and dont really have a view on that -- more concerned about getting my money back out of SG :lol:

[QUOTE=thetorch;82970851]

Man U - spot on analysis -

This thread seems to have become an advertising medium for short term rental providers - another Dubai variant of real estate shark!

I did the numbers of short terms rentals a while back and there's absolutely no point in using a third party as it kills the margin advantage stone dead. If you factor in voids, costs for cable/internet, DEWA, wear and tear, rip off management fee you're much better off doing annual lets on a vanilla unfurnished unit.

Is Property Magnet using these forums to push their services? - isn't this against forum rules?


How is explaining to the forum members that STRs can work deemed as pushing my services? Have I put my personal name, address, website and telephone number on this forum of recent?

My figures differ greatly to yours as STR works for myself , and others, but that is due to the amount of work and the quality of the furnishings I demand and are available for my guests. If you are unable to procure a full calendar then your figures certainly don't equate to those I am able to acquire. It's all relative to the amount of effort the owner is willing to put into their investment. I didn't purchase my apartment with the intention of sitting back and hoping the STR market would flood to the door, and if it didn't then take the LTR option. I, and possibly most owners, wanted more than that. It takes massive hard work but any Dubai owner could do the same. Isn't that what forum's are about, offering ideas for owners to increase their rental potential?

If, as it you seem to indicate by your post, you prefer LTR then my suggestions shouldn't be hitting a sore spot with you as you can simply disregard them. Viewing anything/anybody, without trial and error, as a real estate shark or rip off agent might not be a wise move in the current economy where we all need to possibly work that bit harder.

[QUOTE=thetorch;82970851]

Man U - spot on analysis -

This thread seems to have become an advertising medium for short term rental providers - another Dubai variant of real estate shark!

I did the numbers of short terms rentals a while back and there's absolutely no point in using a third party as it kills the margin advantage stone dead. If you factor in voids, costs for cable/internet, DEWA, wear and tear, rip off management fee you're much better off doing annual lets on a vanilla unfurnished unit.

Is Property Magnet using these forums to push their services? - isn't this against forum rules?

SGrCrap- Dont you think we need all the help so we can get some return on what is for me looking like a poor investment now. We can decide if we wish to contact & ask for Property Magnet services or not.
As per your earlier (spot on) post we should keep this thread to exposing Select for what they are

Hi All, I was in land department today. I went into handover my protest letter re. the delays and no information etc. The person just attached some papers to my letter and said that If I signed the addendem I could get handover. The person probably mistook me for a Torch investor without even looking at my letter. I was told to continue paying and go to court if I wanted the apartment. Should I understand that Select is going to use the land department to get us all to sign the addendums. So even if we all are planning to go to land department with regard to complaints re. the addendum, forget it, they are going to ask us to sign as well. I was also told that there is nothing with the letter, it is just a formality, we really must be coming across as jokers to them for having invested in this development.......................

a legal precedent. owners can sue and win even if the property is under construction and the completion date has NOT passed, if they can prove by an expert opinion, that the property cannot be completed by the completion date.

----------------------------------------
By Benjamin Roberts, Monday, 29 August 2011 7:49 AM

Lawyers representing an investor in a Damac Properties commercial project said their client has won the first of what is hoped to be many successful compensation claims against the company in a landmark case in property litigation.

The Dubai developer in July returned money plus costs to an investor that had bought seven units in the mixed use Executive Bay project in Business Bay, according to law firm The Legal Group, which secured the payout in Dubai’s Court of Appeal.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/damac-buyer-wins-payout-in-court-drama-417724.html

What is the latest here guys? I have been away and will be for another few weeks with business and did not have a chance yet to catch up with this Torch stuff! I obviously have not signed anything and not willing to sign. I had the usual threatening letters from Select and I just forwarded them to our new legal man!

Any chance someone can summarize the latest in a few lines without me having to read all of those pages?

Cheers :cheers:

What is the latest here guys? I have been away and will be for another few weeks with business and did not have a chance yet to catch up with this Torch stuff! I obviously have not signed anything and not willing to sign. I had the usual threatening letters from Select and I just forwarded them to our new legal man!

Any chance someone can summarize the latest in a few lines without me having to read all of those pages?

Cheers :cheers:

Hi there only new to this post and i thought a cut out from an artical i read may be of interest just some basic info i found.

The Dubai Court’s practice requiring that a separate lawsuit is filed for every contract at issue is a prohibitively expensive prac-tice. Every suit requires a payment to the Court of 7.5% of the contact value or a maximum of Dh. 30,000.00. In most cases, it is Dh 30,000.

http://lyhplaw.com/newsletters/newsletter2.pdf

Hi there only new to this post and i thought a cut out from an artical i read may be of interest just some basic info i found.

The Dubai Court’s practice requiring that a separate lawsuit is filed for every contract at issue is a prohibitively expensive prac-tice. Every suit requires a payment to the Court of 7.5% of the contact value or a maximum of Dh. 30,000.00. In most cases, it is Dh 30,000.

http://lyhplaw.com/newsletters/newsletter2.pdf


Is that all it is thats a lot better than I thought. This is very encouraging news thanks t054. Great first post Surprised its taken you this long to join this forum.

Check this out folks...Interesting stuff

Dear readers,

We thank you for your questions. In light of the great number of questions – mostly regarding Purchasers’ possibility to terminate Sale and Purchase Agreements (“SPAs”) when Developers (“Seller”) fail to fulfill their contractual obligations –, we cover below the largest possible number of inquiries by presenting an introductory post which we hope sets the parameters of current real estate disputes in Dubai.

The issue covered – from a general standpoint – is can Purchasers of real estate property terminate SPAs when the Seller fails to deliver a property on the agreed date?

Purchasers of real estate property in the United Arab Emirates can seek the termination of a Sale and Purchase Agreements and a full refund of the monies advanced toward the purchase of the Properties based on the provisions of the United Arab Emirates (hereinafter referred to as “UAE”) civil law.

Article 272 of Federal Law No. 5 of 1985 (hereinafter referred to as the “Civil Code”) allows parties to a contract to seek its termination if the counterparty does not fulfill its contractual obligations.

Would a given contract be cancelled in furtherance of the above article, Article 274 establishes the effects of such termination. In this regard, it indicates that the parties shall be restored to the position they were prior to the conclusion of the contract, and would this not be possible, compensation shall be ordered.

Undoubtedly, increasing court decisions are finding in favor of Purchasers when these seek legal recourse in light of the general inability of Developers to fulfill their obligations pursuant to the contracts concluded and hence are failing to deliver the properties on the contractually agreed dates.

Obviously, in order to obtain an accurate assessment of such viable legal option, it is crucial to establish that the Developers have failed to act as contractually agreed and that the Purchasers have fulfilled according to theirs. In addition, the defaulting party must not be able to excuse its non-compliance with the agreement of the parties.

Our analysis in this regard follows below.

Buyers Compliance with Contractual Obligations

The Buyers must have fully complied with their contractual obligations – i.e. payment terms –, and must be in possession of evidences supporting the said compliance.

Sellers’ Inability to meet the Anticipated Completion Dates

In general, SPAs include an Anticipated Completion Date (hereinafter referred to as “ACD”) by which they commit to deliver possession of the particular property. It is common that SPAs additionally grant the Seller the possibility to unilaterally extend the ACD by a period of 6 to 12 months.
It is crucial to verify that this period has expired. Otherwise the corresponding claim could be rejected on prematurity grounds.
Contractual Remedy afforded to the Purchasers

A large number of SPAs allow Purchasers to terminate the SPAs when the Seller fails to deliver the Property on the agreed date.

A smaller percentage of SPAs affords no remedy or provide only interest – i.e. a percentage interest per month upon the expiration of the ACD – as contractual remedy afforded to the Purchasers in case of default by the Seller. Accordingly, it can be understood that the Purchasers shall not be entitled to terminate the SPAs or merely be entitled to such interest up to the date of actual delivery.

Despite the above, numerous national court and arbitral tribunal decisions have applied by default general provisions of the Civil Code – i.e. Articles 272 and 274 above – and have consequently allowed Purchasers to terminate SPAs which had been left with an indeterminate completion date.

In turn it is important to note that court and arbitration decisions have rejected to apply the interest agreed by the parties in similar SPAs and usually apply the default provisions with regards to the interest granted to the Purchasers. Currently Dubai courts and Arbitral Tribunal decisions are applying interest in the amount of 9%.

In addition, decisions are not granting specific performance – save in the scenario of the Project being 100% completed at the time the competent authority is prepared to render a final decision –, rather courts and arbitral tribunals are rendering compensation comprising return of monies advanced plus interest, court costs and legal fees.

Based on the above and provided the intention of the Purchaser is to obtain the return of the amounts advanced towards the purchase of the particular property, we advise to verify that the project will not be completed at the time a decision is likely to be rendered to avoid a potential specific performance decision as opposed to one of compensation.

Force Majeure

The only afforded remedy available to the Seller when it has failed to comply with its contractual obligations would be the applicability of force majeure.

It order to assess the viability of its application, one must refer to the terms of each particular SPA which specifically defines the contours of such available defense.

It is important to note that the UAE legal system has always followed the civil law doctrine rooted in the French civil code of 1804. The interpretation which has been given to force majeure contentions has regularly been one of “unforeseen occurrence”. Accordingly, the circumstances which gave rise to its proper application must have been difficult to imagine for the breaching party at the time of executing the SPA. We do note that financial difficulties – even in a time of crisis! –, and the breach of a parallel contract by a third party – i.e. Master Developer – do not qualify as force majeure.

Pursuant to the foregoing, a Purchaser who has complied with the SPA but has not received possession of the property by the completion date agreed in the SPA can seek its termination in front of the competent authority – national courts or arbitration – and request the refund of the amounts advanced towards its purchase.

***

[QUOTE=SGrCRAP;83135284]

SGrCrap- Dont you think we need all the help so we can get some return on what is for me looking like a poor investment now. We can decide if we wish to contact & ask for Property Magnet services or not.
As per your earlier (spot on) post we should keep this thread to exposing Select for what they are

Fair does. People have to make their own choices. Just don't like people advertising their services on forums and also thought the figs were over optimistic as there was no consideration for voids, costs, agro factor etc. Won't be engaging in debate with Karen - Waste of time.

Back to topic. This is the man who ripped us all off. Always good to put a face to a name!http://i53.tinypic.com/ejdgy8.jpg

Has anyone who has not signed had any joy with courts yet ?

[QUOTE=shakka;83194226]

Fair does. People have to make their own choices. Just don't like people advertising their services on forums and also thought the figs were over optimistic as there was no consideration for voids, costs, agro factor etc. Won't be engaging in debate with Karen - Waste of time.

Back to topic. This is the man who ripped us all off. Always good to put a face to a name!http://i53.tinypic.com/ejdgy8.jpg

Aint heard from you thought you had given up SGrCRAP.
Yep thats the guy to aim at

Penthouse floors looks great!

22/September/2011

Torch penthouse floor

http://i56.tinypic.com/331zhxv.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/2whp7oh.jpg

The Torch fully furnished penthouse photos and the view

http://i51.tinypic.com/2vip548.jpg

Album:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/imresolt/sets/72157627728145198/

or

https://picasaweb.google.com/110829929853980358718/TheTorchFurnishedPenthousePhotosAndTheViewDubaiMarinaUAE22September2011#

IMRE -- youre cleary doing a job -- fair enough -- but this does really rub salt into the wounds of investors who havent been delivered the quality they were promised in other apartments AND are being asked to sign addendums which are not legal - just reinforces my distrust for SELECT -- good luck with your sales though everyone is entitled to make a living I guess

Anyone heard from Lily recently, how is she getting on with the courts ??

Interesting ?

Bloomberg
BusinessWeek
Business Exchange




Select Group Ltd.
October 19, 2011 2:36 PM ET
Real Estate Management and Development
SnapshotPeople
Company Overview
Select Group Ltd. engages in real estate investment and development activities in Dubai. It develops residential towers, mixed use developments, private residences, and apartments. The company also invests in real estate developments of other developers. In addition, it involves in hospitality and industry fields. Select Group Ltd. company was founded in 2002 and is based in Dubai, the United Arab Emirates.

Emaar Business Park

Building 4, 2nd Floor, Office 205

Sheikh Zayed Road

Dubai,

United Arab Emirates

Founded in 2002

Phone:

971 4 368 3355


Fax:

971 4 368 3344


www.select-group.ae

Key Executives
Mr. Rahail Aslam
Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer

Mr. Noor Khan
Director of Finance and Investments

Mr. Colin Wright
Chief Operating Officer

Mr. Mark Stott
Managing Director of Select Property Group

Ms. Helen White
Marketing Director of Select Property Group
Compensation as of Fiscal Year 2011.

Anyone heard from Lily recently, how is she getting on with the courts ??

There have been many rulings in favour of buyers but unfortunately, because of the confidentiality being part of the arbitration process, you will not find many people willing to come forward with their news :naughty:

There have been many rulings in favour of buyers but unfortunately, because of the confidentiality being part of the arbitration process, you will not find many people willing to come forward with their news :naughty:
Mackie
Pro Bono managed to add a very informative post regarding his/her own success. You may recall that Select claimed delays due to force majeure and Pro Bono's Lawyer proved force majeure did not take place at the Torch. He or she claimed to have won costs, compensation and interest until completion and in a separate post had a lot to say about the current situation where Select are refusing handover. You may recall that he or she claims Select will be liable for the amount you would have received in rent had you been allowed to take possession of your apartment and let it. It would be nice to get a little advice from Pro Bono since he or she appears to have a legal background and clearly he or she has chosen a competent Lawyer.

Mackie
Pro Bono managed to add a very informative post regarding his/her own success. You may recall that Select claimed delays due to force majeure and Pro Bono's Lawyer proved force majeure did not take place at the Torch. He or she claimed to have won costs, compensation and interest until completion and in a separate post had a lot to say about the current situation where Select are refusing handover. You may recall that he or she claims Select will be liable for the amount you would have received in rent had you been allowed to take possession of your apartment and let it. It would be nice to get a little advice from Pro Bono since he or she appears to have a legal background and clearly he or she has chosen a competent Lawyer.

How Many of us are still not signing, I have had various letting agents who have been given my details, contact me saying that they have lots of demand for my property. They have obviously been given my number in order to dangle the carrot!!! Where has everybody gone on this Thread?

I have still not signed. Received a letter fom SG telling me that they will refer to their lawyers and UAE law.

Arbitration will be fine by me !

I have still not signed. Received a letter fom SG telling me that they will refer to their lawyers and UAE law.

Arbitration will be fine by me !

Will take 12 months at least

Will take 12 months at least

No problems with that !!

How Many of us are still not signing, I have had various letting agents who have been given my details, contact me saying that they have lots of demand for my property. They have obviously been given my number in order to dangle the carrot!!! Where has everybody gone on this Thread?

I also get those and have signed so don't think this is the tactic here.

I also get those and have signed so don't think this is the tactic here.

What I'm saying is that my personal details I.e home phone number have been given out to an agent who also was aware that I had not signed , again I find this unacceptable behavior .

I have still not signed. Received a letter fom SG telling me that they will refer to their lawyers and UAE law.

Arbitration will be fine by me !

If SG want to get the case to arbitration, does that mean they will be paying the arbitration fee? According to several Lawyers that I have spoken to, SG never even pay their share of the arbitration fee which is supposed to be paid by both parties. The advice I was given was to pay their share at the appropriate time to avoid further delays caused by their failure to pay. This was backed up by what I read on the web.

If SG want to instigate proceedings, does that mean as well as not signing the addendum you have also stopped paying? According to the Lawyers I have been speaking to, no further payment should be made to SG. When one party to an Agreement stops performing, the other party has a right to stop performing - reciprocal rights. This was better explained by Pro Bono who appears to have made only two posts on here, both were excellent and informative. It is unfortunate that he or she lobbed the grenade then made a swift exit. If, as I suppose, Pro Bono has a legal background, his or her time would be too valuable to waste.

anyone has any idea of how much 2 beds in the torch are going for! I am talking about actual sales, not asking prices!!

correct. this is stipulated in Article 247 of the federal Civil Code: "In contracts binding upon both parties, if the mutual obligations are due for performance, each of the parties may refuse to perform his obligation if the other contracting party does not perform that which he is obliged to do."

According to the Lawyers I have been speaking to, no further payment should be made to SG. When one party to an Agreement stops performing, the other party has a right to stop performing - reciprocal rights.

anyone has any idea of how much 2 beds in the torch are going for! I am talking about actual sales, not asking prices!!

Glover, many months ago just a few days after receiving the completion pack and addendum etc from SG, I contacted them with a view to selling to avoid either 1. A lengthy legal battle to recover my outlay or 2. All of the problems experienced by other buyers in the Point and other SG developments, many of which have been discussed at length on this and other similar forums. The UK arm supplied the name and contact number of their own Agent in Dubai but informed me to expect a loss of about 200,000 UAE Dirhams on the original purchase price without the exta cost of their extended payment plan. They also informed me that a quick sale could be achieved at this price level since there were buyers interested in investing for rental income in the short term and capital gain in the long term. Any help?

If anyone can recommend Allen & Overy LLP? or any other firm, who preferably has experience in arbitration, please PM me...

Many thanks,

Hi All,

Can anyone recommend a solicitor / lawyer in Dubai that can assist me with my situation.
I purchased an apartment in the Torch with my father who unfortunately passed away last year. It was my name and my fathers name that was on the SPA. I need legal assistance in Dubai to help me with translating the 'Grant of Probate' and 'Last Will' in to Arabic and then notarising and attesting for Dubai Court.
Any recommendations or advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Nick

Hi there only new to this post and i thought a cut out from an artical i read may be of interest just some basic info i found.

The Dubai Court’s practice requiring that a separate lawsuit is filed for every contract at issue is a prohibitively expensive prac-tice. Every suit requires a payment to the Court of 7.5% of the contact value or a maximum of Dh. 30,000.00. In most cases, it is Dh 30,000.

http://lyhplaw.com/newsletters/newsletter2.pdf


How about if owners are suing over defects covering the whole building? How would you apportion the contract value? The build cost or number of units multiplied by 30k AED.

Glover, many months ago just a few days after receiving the completion pack and addendum etc from SG, I contacted them with a view to selling to avoid either 1. A lengthy legal battle to recover my outlay or 2. All of the problems experienced by other buyers in the Point and other SG developments, many of which have been discussed at length on this and other similar forums. The UK arm supplied the name and contact number of their own Agent in Dubai but informed me to expect a loss of about 200,000 UAE Dirhams on the original purchase price without the exta cost of their extended payment plan. They also informed me that a quick sale could be achieved at this price level since there were buyers interested in investing for rental income in the short term and capital gain in the long term. Any help?

Dude, don't for god's sake sell the unit through Select Group's sales function. They will play on your fears about the building, tell you it's worth a lot less and just churn the units to investors. They play on the FUD factor to rattle owners out of their investments so they can churn business. Use another agent who's more ethical than these cowboys.

Glover, many months ago just a few days after receiving the completion pack and addendum etc from SG, I contacted them with a view to selling to avoid either 1. A lengthy legal battle to recover my outlay or 2. All of the problems experienced by other buyers in the Point and other SG developments, many of which have been discussed at length on this and other similar forums. The UK arm supplied the name and contact number of their own Agent in Dubai but informed me to expect a loss of about 200,000 UAE Dirhams on the original purchase price without the exta cost of their extended payment plan. They also informed me that a quick sale could be achieved at this price level since there were buyers interested in investing for rental income in the short term and capital gain in the long term. Any help?

Quite shocking really, I don't know anyone who bought a Cayan apartment at original price and is sitting on such massive negative equity. Yet the Select mob keep telling me that all developers are the same.:ohno:

Averaging 3 years late with their developments and not delivering the high standards that they promised, WHO COULD HAVE PREDICTED IT? :smug:

Quite shocking really, I don't know anyone who bought a Cayan apartment at original price and is sitting on such massive negative equity. Yet the Select mob keep telling me that all developers are the same.:ohno:

Averaging 3 years late with their developments and not delivering the high standards that they promised, WHO COULD HAVE PREDICTED IT? :smug:

TB,

I don't think Select will have it all their own way for much longer. They are beginning to reap what they've sewn. You'll find out more soon.

Quite shocking really, I don't know anyone who bought a Cayan apartment at original price and is sitting on such massive negative equity. Yet the Select mob keep telling me that all developers are the same.:ohno:

Averaging 3 years late with their developments and not delivering the high standards that they promised, WHO COULD HAVE PREDICTED IT? :smug:

TB, I would be careful what you say.

RERA in their wisdom have told other HOA Boards that we do a good job here at Marinascape, and should seek advice from us, I have met with the Jewells Board, (one is a Lady Professor, to prove my point) and the Horizon Board as well, all is not so rosy at your place either.

Al

How about if owners are suing over defects covering the whole building? How would you apportion the contract value? The build cost or number of units multiplied by 30k AED.

I don't think that (rumoured) survey on the Point that you refer to can help you with the Torch. How much would it cost to get one done for the Torch?

TB, I would be careful what you say.

RERA in their wisdom have told other HOA Boards that we do a good job here at Marinascape, and should seek advice from us, I have met with the Jewells Board, (one is a Lady Professor, to prove my point) and the Horizon Board as well, all is not so rosy at your place either.

Al

We have an AGM soon so I will hear what the script is, however I know this lady professor you refer to and at the last meeting she came across as a complete loony tune! She is on the IOA but has no clue how to appraise a number of seperate tender bids on a like for like basis. Some of the solicitor guys seemed to be a bit more aware of the real issues but no one had any real construction or building management technical knowledge.

I don't expect that I am suddenly going to be plunged into a negative equity situation due to me buying at an unrealistic price, which was the thrust of my main point.

i am interested in buying a 2br here. anyone who wants a quick sell @ 650 dhs psft for a 2BR plz email me at "gloverpark2@yahoo.com"

Hi

Has anyone contact details for Paul Brady at Select? email address and postal address

thks

i am interested in buying a 2br here. anyone who wants a quick sell @ 650 dhs psft for a 2BR plz email me at "gloverpark2@yahoo.com"

Glover
You really are looking for a bargain. Two bedroom apartments in the torch are currently selling for between 930,000 and 950,000 AED which equates to a price per square foot of between 745 and 761 AED. At your price per square foot, you want a two bedroom apartment for 811,200 AED or a saving of between 118,800 and 138,800 AED. My figures are based on a two bed apartment on a high floor. If you can buy at your price and rent at current market prices that will be a pretty good return on investment.

yes, looking for a bargain, someone who wants to sell quickly. at the prices you quoted, the apt stays on the market for maybe 2-4 months, and prices are coming down even in the marina now, especially the tallest block! you can get a fully furnished 2br in JBR today for AED1.15m. that's something that would be unheard of last year, when supposedly property prices were worse than this year.

Glover
You really are looking for a bargain. Two bedroom apartments in the torch are currently selling for between 930,000 and 950,000 AED which equates to a price per square foot of between 745 and 761 AED. At your price per square foot, you want a two bedroom apartment for 811,200 AED or a saving of between 118,800 and 138,800 AED. My figures are based on a two bed apartment on a high floor. If you can buy at your price and rent at current market prices that will be a pretty good return on investment.

Firm in the process to hand over 3 projects in Dubai Marina
By Staff
Published Monday, December 05, 2011

Select Group, a private real estate firm and developer of the world’s tallest residential towers, The Torch, on Monday said it in the process of delivering over 1,700 residential units in Dubai Marina from three projects valued at Dh1.85 billion.

Rahail Aslam, Chairman, Select Group, said: “There is no doubt, the property market has gone through one of the toughest and challenging phases in the last two years with developers facing harsh choices of adjusting to the market conditions. The situation demanded patience and prudence and we now believe that Dubai’s real estate market is showing signs of an emerging momentum which should gather steam in the foreseeable future.”

He said the market will soon see a more sustainable growth cycle from increased demand and a slowdown in quality supply resulting in increased valuations, yield compression, and take up in the rental market in the medium to long-term.

The potential of Dubai’s real estate economy in providing returns that are higher than the global average will kick start development activities in the medium to long term.

Select’s three projects which is in handover phase includes the 684-unit The Torch, and a 365-unit Botanica, which boasts of the only sky garden in Dubai’s real estate sector, and a three-tower podium development, Bay Central with a total of 735 apartments.

Aslam said the handover of apartments at The Torch is already more than two thirds complete with nearly 440 residents already moved in. “We are seeing an extremely positive response in all these three projects with a demand side resurgence making us state with confidence that we are regaining confidence on Dubai’s real estate market.”

“We believe in Dubai as a global and regional destination for investments and even amidst the current unrest in the region, the city continues to attract investors thanks to its reputation as a safe haven,” Aslam added.

Select said its Dh393.5m 41-floor Botanica project, is complete and 87 per cent sold out.

Construction of the Bay Central is in full swing and the Dh785.9 million project is 95 per cent complete as of November 2011. The first two residential towers - 43 and 51 floors respectively - of the project were launched for sale in 2006 and are 95 per cent sold out. The third tower is envisaged to be a 5-star hotel and serviced apartments which will be managed and operated by one of the reputed international hotel operators, completion of the Hotel is expected in early 2013.

http://www.emirates247.com/property/real-estate/select-group-says-it-will-deliver-over-1-700-units-2011-12-05-1.431430

The last time I posted on this forum it was to inform Torch investors that the legal option was a valid course of action to consider as I have personally been successful in arbitration through the DIAC against the Developer and I have also had an award made and now enforced by the execution court. It is clear to me that certain people are purposefully posting information that is clearly intent on serving the Developers best interests.

I will soon be posting some information that I have recently become party to, which I feel all investors will benefit from in terms of dealing with the handover of Botanica and Bay Central.

HERE ARE THE FACTS.

If you have a legally binding contract (SPA) then both sides are duty bound to perform it in full.
If one party fails to perform an obligation in the contract then they are contractually obliged to remedy the breach.
If a remedy to the breach is not possible then the contract is cancelled and both sides are returned to their original (pre contract) state. This will also include interest on any payments made from the outset. The normal commercial interest rate that the DIAC will apply to these payments is 9%, regardless of what is specified in the SPA.

In order to succeed in Dubai you will need to pay a lawyer their working fees upfront (about £15k).
These fees will be refunded by the respondent when you win the award.
You will need to pay all DIAC fees (about £10k - £15k depending on the full claim amount).
The process of arbitration in Dubai takes about 9-12 months (Developer kicking and screaming all the way).
Once you have an arbitration judgement there is NO RIGHT to appeal.
Once you have an award judgement from the DIAC you need to take this to a court to have it enforced, (this is purely to check that procedural regularity has been followed by the DIAC).
If the Developer fails to pay the award the execution court then serves 15 days on the respondent to pay in full, failure to pay will be followed by an order to attach the debtor’s assets, bank accounts and any other property including real estate property that can be attached by the courts to satisfy the value of the adjudged amount. This is a key point which I will discuss in length soon.

This whole process will take 12-18 months and providing you can prove clear physical breaches of your SPA it will have a definite outcome with all costs awarded in your favor.

If you claim breaches to be poor quality bathroom fittings and badly fitted kitchen units then you are on dodgy ground.

If you claim breaches that can be physically proved then your chances of success are very strong indeed, instances such as unit size failings, Force Majeure, late delivery, handover conditional of signing addendums etc, are all easily provable and impossible to defend.

^^ Are you sure there is no right to appeal even if just for delay tactics. I believe Damac appealed in a past case and lost but delayed the process by doing so?

How long would an order to attach to assets take through courts after judegment has been made?

Why are you persisting with this propoganda Steve? Your facts about Damac are wrong, they said they would appeal but were later advised that they had no right of appeal and paid up.

Incidently, I would say that Damac are better connected than Select. Nakheel is also regularly loosing court battles.

Firm in the process to hand over 3 projects in Dubai Marina
By Staff
Published Monday, December 05, 2011

Select Group, a private real estate firm and developer of the world’s tallest residential towers, The Torch, on Monday said it in the process of delivering over 1,700 residential units in Dubai Marina from three projects valued at Dh1.85 billion.

Rahail Aslam, Chairman, Select Group, said: “There is no doubt, the property market has gone through one of the toughest and challenging phases in the last two years with developers facing harsh choices of adjusting to the market conditions. The situation demanded patience and prudence and we now believe that Dubai’s real estate market is showing signs of an emerging momentum which should gather steam in the foreseeable future.”

He said the market will soon see a more sustainable growth cycle from increased demand and a slowdown in quality supply resulting in increased valuations, yield compression, and take up in the rental market in the medium to long-term.

The potential of Dubai’s real estate economy in providing returns that are higher than the global average will kick start development activities in the medium to long term.

Select’s three projects which is in handover phase includes the 684-unit The Torch, and a 365-unit Botanica, which boasts of the only sky garden in Dubai’s real estate sector, and a three-tower podium development, Bay Central with a total of 735 apartments.

Aslam said the handover of apartments at The Torch is already more than two thirds complete with nearly 440 residents already moved in. “We are seeing an extremely positive response in all these three projects with a demand side resurgence making us state with confidence that we are regaining confidence on Dubai’s real estate market.”

“We believe in Dubai as a global and regional destination for investments and even amidst the current unrest in the region, the city continues to attract investors thanks to its reputation as a safe haven,” Aslam added.

Select said its Dh393.5m 41-floor Botanica project, is complete and 87 per cent sold out.

Construction of the Bay Central is in full swing and the Dh785.9 million project is 95 per cent complete as of November 2011. The first two residential towers - 43 and 51 floors respectively - of the project were launched for sale in 2006 and are 95 per cent sold out. The third tower is envisaged to be a 5-star hotel and serviced apartments which will be managed and operated by one of the reputed international hotel operators, completion of the Hotel is expected in early 2013.

http://www.emirates247.com/property/real-estate/select-group-says-it-will-deliver-over-1-700-units-2011-12-05-1.431430

What a terrible article from so many angles. Badly written, full of the usual Select pish and almost putting their heads on the block by exposing more lies.

Yeah he is right the fact that Select have caused a slowdown in the supply of quality units which has resulted in an increase in demand for Cayan units!

Obviosly BC is NOT in the handover phase, but more interestingly the use of the phrase "envisaged to be a 5 star hotel" Uh oh!

Following on from posts in Bay Central and Botanica forums.

FORCE MAJEURE.
This is the first major mistake Select Group have made in respect of Bay Central. It probably sounded like a good idea at the time as many developers did it in an attempt to save their arses.

FACTS.
Not one case of Force Majeure has been proven by a developer in Dubai real estate.
Force Majeure has already been successfully defended in the DIAC in respect of the Bay Central development.

This is enough for an investor to insist on a FULL refund of ALL monies paid with interest in accordance with UAE civil law;

http://www.hadefpartners.com/News/pageid/120-137/default.aspx?Mediaid=84 (http://www.hadefpartners.com/News/pageid/120-137/default.aspx?Mediaid=84)
http://www.clydeco.com/knowledge/articles/an-act-of-god-but-do-you-have-to-pay-your-employees (http://www.clydeco.com/knowledge/articles/an-act-of-god-but-do-you-have-to-pay-your-employees)

Article 273 of the UAE Civil Code states;

“In contracts binding on both parties, if force majeure supervenes which makes the performance of the contract impossible, the corresponding obligation shall cease, and the contract shall be automatically cancelled”.

Article 274 of the UAE Civil Code also states;

“If the contract is cancelled automatically or by the act of the parties, the two contracting parties shall be restored to the position they were in before the contract was made”

Ladies and Gentlemen. This is a simple fact of UAE civil law. It is not a matter of interpretation or something that can be negotiated by clever tongue twisting lawyers. Select have conformed in writing to investors that they have claimed Force Majeure and the reasons for claiming it (without even understanding its legal consequences). All you have to do is challenge it to get a FULL refund.

There are two possible outcomes;

1 DIAC rules No FM exists. Therefore you are entitled to a full refund as per contract as the long stop date has expired.
2 DIAC rules FM does exist. Therefore you are entitled to a full refund as per contract in accordance with UAE Civil Law.

Remember there is no lengthy right to appeal the decision of the DIAC, just a simple procedural check and then enforcement, followed by 15 days to pay or property gets sold by the court to enforce payment. No doubt Dubai Steve, Slowhand and the other Select mob will try and plant some seeds of doubt in your minds with quotes like, “how long will it take to get your money though” and “what if Select Group just closes Bay Central Ltd and move on leaving no money to pay”. This is ridiculous bullshit designed to cause distress about achieving your legal rights.

FACTS.

Bay Central Developments Ltd will be the respondent in your legal dispute.
Bay Central Developments Ltd jointly owns your unit with you, and you are both registered as the legal owners on the interim register at the Land Department.
Bay Central Developments CAN NOT liquidate and disappear, as they cannot sell your jointly owned asset (the apartment).
When Bay Central Developments Ltd refuse to pay your money back, the execution court in Dubai have the power to sell Bay Central Developments Ltd property to recover your settlement costs which includes (All monies paid + interest + legal costs).

You are in a win-win position with these clowns. The tables have turned in your favour due to their own incompetence and greed. Why let Select use your funds as development finance to pay for the build and then walk away from their legal obligations rubbing their hands in the process?

My advice is simple. Take your money back and go and buy what you originally signed up for which was a 5* quality apartment, and save yourself around 30% of the cost in the process. Select will even pay the legal costs for you.

Has anyone ever considered why Select seem so keen on getting addendums 1&2 signed by all investors, and will go to extraordinary lengths to do so?

Well here are the answers.

Initially you must understand a couple of points;

FACTS.

It is illegal in UAE to offer a mortgage unless you are fully approved by the ministry of economy and the Central Bank to do so.
Anyone offering credit facilities in the UAE MUST be registered to do so by all the relevant authorities.
Select Group and its chain of companies are NOT licenced by any of the relevant authorities to offer credit lines in the UAE.

The LPP instalment facility was offered by Select on the basis that it is NOT a mortgage, it is NOT a commercial loan, and it is NOT a regulated credit agreement, therefore no licences are required. It is a simple agreement between two parties (the Buyer and the Seller). The Seller (Select Group) agreed to offer its investors a payment plan of 15 years to pay for a unit to be delivered in accordance with a contract within a predetermined timeframe. Once the unit is delivered and in the possession of the Buyer, Select are legally powerless to enforce the Lengthy Payment Plan as it is not a regulated credit agreement. This is why there are such long and onerous securitization clauses in the 2nd addendum. The SPA only deals with the period of time leading up to completion. There is no post-completion relationship with regard to the SPA so once an investor has taken delivery of a unit (and changed the locks), if they were to stop paying the quarterly LPP instalments, Select would not be able to repossess the unit providing the service charges are up to date. The only method of contract dispute open to either Buyer or Seller in the SPA is through arbitration and the DIAC. There is nothing contractually to fall back on post-handover to remedy non-payment. Leaving the developer defenceless.

This is why Select are refusing to handover LPP units to investors unless addendums are signed, which effectively ties up the loophole left in the contract. In refusing to handover, Select are themselves breaching the SPA which gives rise to a claim for the breach using the arbitration clause in the SPA.

The 2nd addendum is a get out of jail free card that will allow Select to pass the buck to a 3rd party (Bank), who will legally tie the charge to the property in a properly formulated credit agreement (mortgage).

By signing the 2nd addendum you are agreeing to allow this procedure, and indeed contractually agreeing to implement whatever further paperwork is deemed necessary in order to facilitate a new secured agreement.

Half price appartment anyone?

No doubt Dubai Steve, Slowhand and the other Select mob will try and plant some seeds of doubt in your minds with quotes like, “how long will it take to get your money though”

You legal advice is all good and makes sense for those with access to the cash up front to do so, I would have been tempted myself purely for financial gain reasons due to the market crash. I am not really worried about the LPP addendum, I accepted from day 1 that I have to make payments or loose the apartment.

However, I think a question of how long from the day you start legal proceeding to the day you would get your cheque is a valid question? I only ask this as I have a similar case in another country and wanted to see what your estimated timelines are so I can complain to my lawyer why he said it could take 4 years or more to get a cheque back in my case :bash:

I think if you are giving out legal advise you should make the timeline clear.

^^Maybe you were not paying attention when he/she stated 12-18months in a previous post.

^^ Wasn't the 12-18 months just for the judgement to be made in court in your favour. That would tie up roughly with what my lawyer said about 18 months in the best case for a judgement.

But what about actually getting a cheque after that judgement. Is it expected they will just pay up and write a cheque there and then within 15 days or would the unit have to be sold etc. and attachments made to assets etc? How long does that stage take? For my case, I was told could be many years but maybe in Dubai it is stricter and each case is different.

I assume you used to be indecisive.... but maybe now you are not sure????



^^ Wasn't the 12-18 months just for the judgement to be made in court in your favour. That would tie up roughly with what my lawyer said about 18 months in the best case for a judgement.

But what about actually getting a cheque after that judgement. Is it expected they will just pay up and write a cheque there and then within 15 days or would the unit have to be sold etc. and attachments made to assets etc? How long does that stage take? For my case, I was told could be many years but maybe in Dubai it is stricter and each case is different.

^^ Wasn't the 12-18 months just for the judgement to be made in court in your favour. That would tie up roughly with what my lawyer said about 18 months in the best case for a judgement.

But what about actually getting a cheque after that judgement. Is it expected they will just pay up and write a cheque there and then within 15 days or would the unit have to be sold etc. and attachments made to assets etc? How long does that stage take? For my case, I was told could be many years but maybe in Dubai it is stricter and each case is different.

Steve it has been explained in black and white on this forum by many different members what the procedure is. I have my doubts that you are either a slow learner or you are deliberately trying to smoke screen the issue.


The case must first be taken to arbitration for the facts to be considered by a specialist in the field of the dispute.
Once a decision is passed down by the court of arbitration, both parties must abide by this descision. Ultimately Select will not, so you then have to take them to the law courts. This is a formality as the Judge will accept the desicion of the arbiter and will only look to see if the correct procedures were followed.
Once the judge is happy that everything was done properly by the court of arbitration, then the law court will rubber stamp the arbitration judgement and order the losing party to pay. Note that no new evidence or appeals can be introduced, the only thing that could be considered is a technical issue with the arbitration procedure, in which case you will need to start again.
If the losing party fails to pay up within 14 days, then the court will seize assets and possibly even their trading licenses. Their licenses will have considerable cash bonds attached. They lose their license, they lose the bond (approx£1 million for each license)


The MO of Select is to fail to cooperate throughout the entire process until the judgement is made against them, then they are wise enough to cough up. They are bound to pay the court of arbitration fees but will not, you will have to pay their portion. That is automatically a sign of how untrustworthy and unfit to be in business that they are.

I haven't heard of anyone going through the process and losing yet. some have even studied the procedure and gone alone without lawyers and still won. They seem to be the most wide open company in Dubai as they have not acted appropriately in their business dealings and have plenty of assets available to sieze.

"and have plenty of assets available to sieze."

The developer is Bay Central Developments Limited which is likely to be a separate company. It could be part of a group although it is likely to be standalone. If it is part of a group, in the UK there is no obligation on the parent company to support a subsidiary.

I am not sure how you have quantified "plenty of assets" in your trailing statement given above. Given the quoted timescales involved in establishing a claim I wouldn't bet that Bay Central Developments Limited will have many assets in 18 months time except for unsold properties. By the way there is nothing in principal to stop a company taking out development profits along the way to completion. It is not difficult for a FD who wants to to justify doing this on the grounds they "believe" the project is on track to make a profit.

Clearly the developer deserves being sued for the very cavalier way we have been treated. The sole reason my view has been not to sue the developer is the uncertainty of finally getting a return from the process.

Congratulations to Probono for taking the plunge all that time ago and thank you for providing all the info on the process. By the sounds of it a very good decision. However doing it now and waiting 12 to 18 months especially if many others try? Clearly everybody will make there own decision. A "bird in the hand" springs to mind.

^^ "a snake in the grass" also springs to mind :lol:

BC Developments limited will be part of a group of companies with a parent company, Select Developments or whatever they are called now. Someone must own BCDL to be able to draw off the profit.

The developer is Bay Central Developments Limited which is likely to be a separate company. It could be part of a group although it is likely to be standalone. If it is part of a group, in the UK there is no obligation on the parent company to support a subsidiary.

I am not sure how you have quantified "plenty of assets" in your trailing statement given above. Given the quoted timescales involved in establishing a claim I wouldn't bet that Bay Central Developments Limited will have many assets in 18 months time except for unsold properties. By the way there is nothing in principal to stop a company taking out development profits along the way to completion. It is not difficult for a FD who wants to to justify doing this on the grounds they "believe" the project is on track to make a profit.

Clearly the developer deserves being sued for the very cavalier way we have been treated. The sole reason my view has been not to sue the developer is the uncertainty of finally getting a return from the process.

Congratulations to Probono for taking the plunge all that time ago and thank you for providing all the info on the process. By the sounds of it a very good decision. However doing it now and waiting 12 to 18 months especially if many others try? Clearly everybody will make there own decision. A "bird in the hand" springs to mind.

Did YOU really write that ?

The last time I posted on this forum it was to inform Torch investors that the legal option was a valid course of action to consider as I have personally been successful in arbitration through the DIAC against the Developer and I have also had an award made and now enforced by the execution court. It is clear to me that certain people are purposefully posting information that is clearly intent on serving the Developers best interests.

I will soon be posting some information that I have recently become party to, which I feel all investors will benefit from in terms of dealing with the handover of Botanica and Bay Central.

HERE ARE THE FACTS.

If you have a legally binding contract (SPA) then both sides are duty bound to perform it in full.
If one party fails to perform an obligation in the contract then they are contractually obliged to remedy the breach.
If a remedy to the breach is not possible then the contract is cancelled and both sides are returned to their original (pre contract) state. This will also include interest on any payments made from the outset. The normal commercial interest rate that the DIAC will apply to these payments is 9%, regardless of what is specified in the SPA.

In order to succeed in Dubai you will need to pay a lawyer their working fees upfront (about £15k).
These fees will be refunded by the respondent when you win the award.
You will need to pay all DIAC fees (about £10k - £15k depending on the full claim amount).
The process of arbitration in Dubai takes about 9-12 months (Developer kicking and screaming all the way).
Once you have an arbitration judgement there is NO RIGHT to appeal.
Once you have an award judgement from the DIAC you need to take this to a court to have it enforced, (this is purely to check that procedural regularity has been followed by the DIAC).
If the Developer fails to pay the award the execution court then serves 15 days on the respondent to pay in full, failure to pay will be followed by an order to attach the debtor’s assets, bank accounts and any other property including real estate property that can be attached by the courts to satisfy the value of the adjudged amount. This is a key point which I will discuss in length soon.

This whole process will take 12-18 months and providing you can prove clear physical breaches of your SPA it will have a definite outcome with all costs awarded in your favor.

If you claim breaches to be poor quality bathroom fittings and badly fitted kitchen units then you are on dodgy ground.

If you claim breaches that can be physically proved then your chances of success are very strong indeed, instances such as unit size failings, Force Majeure, late delivery, handover conditional of signing addendums etc, are all easily provable and impossible to defend.

Very interesting - would an independent fire survey delivered by professional fire engineers which stated the entire fire control system (throughout the building) did not meet current standards be sufficient for a Dubai court to rule in favour of the owners as a collective?

The developer is Bay Central Developments Limited which is likely to be a separate company. It could be part of a group although it is likely to be standalone. If it is part of a group, in the UK there is no obligation on the parent company to support a subsidiary.

I am not sure how you have quantified "plenty of assets" in your trailing statement given above. Given the quoted timescales involved in establishing a claim I wouldn't bet that Bay Central Developments Limited will have many assets in 18 months time except for unsold properties. By the way there is nothing in principal to stop a company taking out development profits along the way to completion. It is not difficult for a FD who wants to to justify doing this on the grounds they "believe" the project is on track to make a profit.

Clearly the developer deserves being sued for the very cavalier way we have been treated. The sole reason my view has been not to sue the developer is the uncertainty of finally getting a return from the process.

Congratulations to Probono for taking the plunge all that time ago and thank you for providing all the info on the process. By the sounds of it a very good decision. However doing it now and waiting 12 to 18 months especially if many others try? Clearly everybody will make there own decision. A "bird in the hand" springs to mind.

What a Clown :bash::bash:

The developer is Bay Central Developments Limited which is likely to be a separate company. It could be part of a group although it is likely to be standalone. If it is part of a group, in the UK there is no obligation on the parent company to support a subsidiary.

I am not sure how you have quantified "plenty of assets" in your trailing statement given above. Given the quoted timescales involved in establishing a claim I wouldn't bet that Bay Central Developments Limited will have many assets in 18 months time except for unsold properties. By the way there is nothing in principal to stop a company taking out development profits along the way to completion. It is not difficult for a FD who wants to to justify doing this on the grounds they "believe" the project is on track to make a profit.

Clearly the developer deserves being sued for the very cavalier way we have been treated. The sole reason my view has been not to sue the developer is the uncertainty of finally getting a return from the process.

Congratulations to Probono for taking the plunge all that time ago and thank you for providing all the info on the process. By the sounds of it a very good decision. However doing it now and waiting 12 to 18 months especially if many others try? Clearly everybody will make there own decision. A "bird in the hand" springs to mind.

If some of you actually take the time to read this properly instead of dismissing Slowhand's posts out of hand all the time with rude and unhelpful comments, you'll find the points in red are actually correct.

However it should in theory be difficult for a developer to simply take out funds held in escrow as their profit, but hey this is Dubai and the Wild West !!

If some of you actually take the time to read this properly instead of dismissing Slowhand's posts out of hand all the time with rude and unhelpful comments, you'll find the points in red are actually correct.

However it should in theory be difficult for a developer to simply take out funds held in escrow as their profit, but hey this is Dubai and the Wild West !!

many of the people who post here are wannabee bigshots, low level sales people who understand nothing, unemployed kerb layers, never quote facts, trolls, the uneducated and can't read who have bought nothing, sold nothing but have uninformed opinions about anything. They will be spewing out the same bullshit next year without realising they are doing it. Still they are something to smile at from time to time.

What a Clown :bash::bash:

someone has seen you and says your avatar is a close likeness for you. This explains everything. :)

Did YOU really write that ?

It is more than you can do. If you read it, it has some useful and relevant points. Lets have some practical relevant facts from you that a disappointed investor can use.

Just slagging off the developer is not helpful. There isn't one investor who isn't very pissed off with the developer. You are just stating the obvious as TB and others do.

probono's post is very interesting and useful if true. Also Mistermark's post about doubting whether you can get legal redress is also very interesting and relevant. Man U pay attention and try harder to contribute something useful

^^If I am stating the obvious, why is it always contrary to your points of view?

You pedal personal insults because you are a loser who has never contributed anything worthwhile to this forum. You will continue to be a loser as you can not see the error of your ways and think you have made good choices. Let me tell you that you are WRONG and I am about to demonstate it with facts;

"By the way there is nothing in principal to stop a company taking out development profits along the way to completion"

WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! Your little torch barer has backed you up on this point because clearly he has never run a development business either. Answer me this, Mr Big Shot with a big mouth. How can you extract profit when you have not discharged your liabilities??? How can you extract profit when the funds are the investors funds and none of the money belongs to the developer??? Absolute fucking criminal, unethical and I would cut their balls off if they stole my money before delivering my part of the deal.

You clearly have a high opinion of yourself, but to everyone with business sense, you are a poisoned prick who obviously lives on planet "you". Or you are the snake in the grass who is still going out of his way to cover Select's back by pedalling trash. I suggest you spend some time searching the internet for facts before you post anymore SHIT on this forum, big mouth!

many of the people who post here are wannabee bigshots, low level sales people who understand nothing, unemployed kerb layers, never quote facts, trolls, the uneducated and can't read who have bought nothing, sold nothing but have uninformed opinions about anything. They will be spewing out the same bullshit next year without realising they are doing it. Still they are something to smile at from time to time.

What an ARROGANT PRICK!!!

What an ARROGANT PRICK!!!

That told him. :cheers:

It is more than you can do. If you read it, it has some useful and relevant points. Lets have some practical relevant facts from you that a disappointed investor can use.

Just slagging off the developer is not helpful. There isn't one investor who isn't very pissed off with the developer. You are just stating the obvious as TB and others do.

probono's post is very interesting and useful if true. Also Mistermark's post about doubting whether you can get legal redress is also very interesting and relevant. Man U pay attention and try harder to contribute something useful

Ok my tip , any disgruntled investor shoud listen to PRO BONO now --difference is I did 12 months ago :cheers: got to admit I looked after No.1 when others had heads in the sand :cheers:

Very interesting - would an independent fire survey delivered by professional fire engineers which stated the entire fire control system (throughout the building) did not meet current standards be sufficient for a Dubai court to rule in favour of the owners as a collective?

We will find out I hope soon ?? Interesting times ahead

To the guy who said that only 10 odd people are unhappy with the torch project: I have spoken to either face to face or over the phone to a figure that is a multiple of this 10 figure. If you include the timeshare people as well and the unhappy investors of other select project including their developments in other countries other than UAE (which has already been reported) then I am afraid the figure is 100s

A lot of people on this forum are accusing certain people of working for Select. I believe there to be a couple of regular posters to be working for or more the case used to work for Select Group either in the UK or Dubai as a sales agent.

I think they should do the right thing & own up now to working with this dishonest company. Then we know where they stand & why they may be always looking to the positive on what has been a disgusting company in the way they have run their business. On the other hand maybe they have been duped as well thinking they were selling apartments from an honest developer. I think we as buyers are owed this to know who may have a hidden agenda on this forum.

So who was a Select employee or sales agent commission only or whatever?

What's a "provocateur" Any annoying Frenchman perhaps ?? :dunno:

What's a "provocateur" Any annoying Frenchman perhaps ?? :dunno:

Not quite what I was getting at.

Well the silence is deafening! As least Morrismarina & Barry have come forward & admitted their part, fair enough. For that they must be commended. Its the others who have remained silent who check this forum & post regularly that deserve the real contempt.

So come on. I mean are you ashamed or something?

Not quite what I was getting at.

Well the silence is deafening! As least Morrismarina & Barry have come forward & admitted their part, fair enough. For that they must be commended. Its the others who have remained silent who check this forum & post regularly that deserve the real contempt.

So come on. I mean are you ashamed or something?

maybe we should have a vote on who we think the actors/agents are?

....

Dubai Having completed and handed over the world’s tallest dedicated residential high-rise — The Torch with 86 floors — its developer is turning to unfinished business in Ras Al Khaimah.

The Select Group has an ongoing project called the Pacific, featuring a cluster of six mid-rise buildings, in the northern emirate. The topping out for all six properties is complete and the rest of the work is, according to the developer, progressing well.

This will now set the stage for a renewed attempt at selling the 30 per cent of the properties that are unsold as of now. “For the remaining inventory Select holds in Pacific, we are planning to revive our sales campaign in the second quarter,” chairman Rahail Eslam said.
“We will be specifically targeting certain nationalities that are regular visitors to Ras Al Khaimah, i.e., Russians, Italians and Germans, although this does not mean we will restrict our marketing to these groups only. The emirate is a popular retreat among Dubai expatriates and local residents.”

The developer is looking to attain a price tag of Dh700 to Dh800 per square foot. Property selling in these still uncertain times comes with a fair share of caveats.
Buyer’s market

It is very much a buyer’s market and they can well set the tone for what the properties will actually sell for. Only developers with deep pockets and a lot of patience can hope to sit it out until the market trends set an opposite course.

The Select Group expects its track record of five completed projects in Dubai to raise its credentials along with the fact that the Pacific in Ras Al Khaimah is nearly 70 per cent sold.

“The Pacific is one of the few projects that has never been scaled down or placed on hold in RAK. It is around 70 per cent sold and our confidence to complete the project remains intact,” Eslam added. “Tough times have not deterred us from pursuing projects within a framework of prudence and diligence, including the financial planning. And our investor base continues to be intact.”
Even in Dubai it has enough to keep the developer keen in the near term. The handover process is continuing apace at the 41-storey Botanica, and with a botanical garden on the 27th floor, in Dubai Marina.

Completion of the Bay Central, a cluster of three high-rises also located in Dubai Marina, is scheduled for later this quarter. One of the high-rises will function as a five-star hotel and also feature serviced apartments. The identity of the hotel operator has not been disclosed.

Progress on land bank

“All our land bank in Dubai Marina is either under construction or already completed, including the hotel which is anticipated to open in early 2013,” Eslam said. “To date, we are the largest private developer in Dubai Marina.”

The completed properties now have their own owner association managements, which work in coordination with the interim board of property owners. “Within three to four months of opening a new project, we call an annual general assembly of all owners to elect an interim board to work with the OAMs — all FM services within each development are outsourced to specialist third-party suppliers,” Eslam said.

new strategy

rescue scheme

Now that it is more or less done with its roster of its own projects, the Select Group is giving a thought to help out with the stalled developments of other developers.

“There are good opportunities to rescue partially completed developments in Dubai and soon we will be placing our interest in some of those projects,” Rahail Eslam said. “We are already looking at other opportunities in Dubai and internationally — we are not just looking to complete our projects and sit idle.

“However, our main focus is placed on the handovers and completion of our ongoing projects.”

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidGN_12012012_130103/After_Torch_Select_Group_focuses_on_Ras_Al_Khaimah

The man has Balls, I will give him that.

^^ It just shows you the absurd level of profit that they have made out of selling high and delivering low. Being 3 years late with their bread and butter developments AND NOW they are coming to the rescue of other developers. you couldn't make it up!

...................................

Completion of the Bay Central, a cluster of three high-rises also located in Dubai Marina, is scheduled for later this quarter. One of the high-rises will function as a five-star hotel and also feature serviced apartments. The identity of the hotel operator has not been disclosed.



I still think there could be a sting in the tail on its way. The hotel operator has been on and off twice now and this statement suggests that there is now no one is on board. What happened to the boutique brand that was signed up?

Is it just coincidence that a new hotel is being built on the plot next to BC or have select sold the hotel license to a third party?? Maybe they are also silent backers of this investment company BUTA IN. Would align with his statement that they are focusing on helping out with stalled projects.

sounds like an episode of the Melinda Messenger cowboy builders on channel 5 (uk) programme where she helps homeowners put their property right after so called builders have wrecked their houses with very poor workmanship and left them broke with no money to put it right.Only difference select are offering their services to help stalled projects not sure it is ment to work like that!

^^ It just shows you the absurd level of profit that they have made out of selling high and delivering low. Being 3 years late with their bread and butter developments AND NOW they are coming to the rescue of other developers. you couldn't make it up!


Talking of making it up, I had a lovely dream last night, it was like Braveheart, Select had bought out Cayan, and the "Barley Twist Tower" so that by default, you now owned a select property, they thought that spending Billions to get you to be nice to them was worth it, it didnt end well for you scottie, they had you on that Rack, and where stretching you nicely, with many bits flying off, and you screaming out "Freedom and no fucking way":lol::lol::lol:

Al.

^^Not sounding good Al. I can't believe you are fantasising about me being tortured to death by Select. Maybe I shouldn't visit you any more in case you bind and gag me and throw me in a cupboard.:( You would probably get them to finish your snagging on condition you hand me over:lol:

If Select were to buy out Cayan and take control of Infinity you would see the fancy lighting system for sale on Ebay. They don't like buildings that look good at night :D

I am not a Select Hater anymore, all my hate went on Trident, and is still aimed at them.

Eventually got my Apartment, and let out to bring a few Quid in, is all I ever worried about, and might evevn get mt Torch Deeds Soon.

Al.

Very interesting - would an independent fire survey delivered by professional fire engineers which stated the entire fire control system (throughout the building) did not meet current standards be sufficient for a Dubai court to rule in favour of the owners as a collective?

I wondered if the IOA had pursued this option ?

Any news ?

http://i44.tinypic.com/fz9evl.jpg

[QUOTE=Dubai_Steve;87517782]Dubai Having completed and handed over the world’s tallest dedicated residential high-rise — The Torch with 86 floors — its developer is turning to unfinished business in Ras Al Khaimah.

The Select Group has an ongoing project called the Pacific, featuring a cluster of six mid-rise buildings, in the northern emirate. The topping out for all six properties is complete and the rest of the work is, according to the developer, progressing well.

This will now set the stage for a renewed attempt at selling the 30 per cent of the properties that are unsold as of now. “For the remaining inventory Select holds in Pacific, we are planning to revive our sales campaign in the second quarter,” chairman Rahail Eslam said.

[30% unsold.... really... why is that then - is it because Select were charging like Rhinos for these units? Yes definitely. Anyone with half a brain would realise there's absolutely no infrastructure in RAK and the prices which Select were pitching these places at was ludicrous. I speak from first hand experience - I almost bought one of these dogs but after visiting the site and looking at what's around the area (SCRUBLAND) it became very apparent the Pacific development is worth a lot less than these clowns are trying to hoof them for. Who's going to live in them? Where's the work for expats in RAK???]

“We will be specifically targeting certain nationalities that are regular visitors to Ras Al Khaimah, i.e., Russians, Italians and Germans, although this does not mean we will restrict our marketing to these groups only. The emirate is a popular retreat among Dubai expatriates and local residents.”

[Right Rahail...... so you think Pacific is going to be some sort of inclusive holiday resort? The only good thing about the location is it's proximity to the Oman border!]

The developer is looking to attain a price tag of Dh700 to Dh800 per square foot. Property selling in these still uncertain times comes with a fair share of caveats.

[:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Nice one Rahail you absolute moron. That's roughly the same as Dubai marina resales and there's an established end user market in the marina with proven yields. Where's the demand for rentals in RAK? Does this fella really think a load of ruskies are going to park their dosh in a seriously unknown proposition with zero demand in the area?]

Buyer’s market

It is very much a buyer’s market and they can well set the tone for what the properties will actually sell for. Only developers with deep pockets and a lot of patience can hope to sit it out until the market trends set an opposite course.

[ Why don't you sell the units at attractive prices then?]

The Select Group expects its track record of five completed projects in Dubai to raise its credentials along with the fact that the Pacific in Ras Al Khaimah is nearly 70 per cent sold.

[Five completed basket cases which are starting to fall to pieces. let's review this in 18 months and see what Select's reputation is like after the world's press have put some focus on how Select do business]

“The Pacific is one of the few projects that has never been scaled down or placed on hold in RAK. It is around 70 per cent sold and our confidence to complete the project remains intact,” Eslam added. [This means we're shitting ourselves about Pacific as we've never had a load of shitty units left on our books so long after project launch - it's a dog]
“Tough times have not deterred us from pursuing projects [you mean ripping everyone off] within a framework of prudence and diligence, [you mean corrupt business practices and illegal contractual modifications] including the financial planning. And our investor base continues to be intact.” [Bullshit - Select owners can't stand you - you're a con artist]

Even in Dubai it has enough to keep the developer keen in the near term. The handover process is continuing apace at the 41-storey Botanica, and with a botanical garden on the 27th floor, in Dubai Marina. [Garden.... that means water - it'll leak like a sieve into the units below...... it's a Select guarantee]

Completion of the Bay Central, a cluster of three high-rises also located in Dubai Marina, is scheduled for later this quarter. One of the high-rises will function as a five-star hotel and also feature serviced apartments. The identity of the hotel operator has not been disclosed.

[Oooops.... you mean nobody has signed up 'cos they know it'll be a shit building. Perhaps someone will start cheap arse B&B for stag and hen nights from it - now there's an idea]

Progress on land bank

“All our land bank in Dubai Marina is either under construction or already completed, including the hotel which is anticipated to open in early 2013,” Eslam said. “To date, we are the largest private developer in Dubai Marina.” [Re-phrase - largest private middle men sitting between owners and construction companies - providing zero added value by selling five star and delivering crap]

The completed properties now have their own owner association managements, which work in coordination with the interim board of property owners. “Within three to four months of opening a new project, we call an annual general assembly of all owners to elect an interim board to work with the OAMs — all FM services within each development are outsourced to specialist third-party suppliers,” Eslam said.

new strategy

rescue scheme

Now that it is more or less done with its roster of its own projects, the Select Group is giving a thought to help out with the stalled developments of other developers.

[You mean buying up bad debt and knocking them up on the cheap - more profit for the greedy bastards]

“There are good opportunities to rescue partially completed developments in Dubai and soon we will be placing our interest in some of those projects,” Rahail Eslam said. “We are already looking at other opportunities in Dubai and internationally — we are not just looking to complete our projects and sit idle.

[God help us if these clown start developing anywhere else in the world - it's bad enough having them in Dubai]

“However, our main focus is placed on the handovers and completion of our ongoing projects.”

[You mean holding onto keys until people sign illegal contract addendums which remove their right of title.... ferkin' crooks!]

SUMMARY - OFFSHORE INVESTORS BEWARE!!! - SELECT CHARGE GOOD MONEY AND DELIVER RUBBISH - SAVE YOUR CASH AND INVEST WITH A DEVELOPER WHO UNDERSTANDS HOW TO BUILD PROPERLY

[God help us if these clown start developing anywhere else in the world - it's bad enough having them in Dubai]

I really dont think they would get away with these techniques elsewhere in the world. No rich influential sheiks to back them up

I am still trying to work out why no action has been taken against Select Property in the U.K..
Most of us bought our property at the Point/Torch/Bay Central/Pacific etc from these people.
We all seem to have been told the same pack of lies ; 5 star quality, top grade fittings and appliances etc.
Under British law, it does not matter that the sales person believed the total fabrication he/she fed you. If it was not as described and bears no relation to the truth, then the law has consequences for the seller.
Don't let these liars get away with it. We probably will not get any money back, but we can close these conmen down.

I agree, I suggest you all report Sp to teh police and SFO and even your MP as I have done!

Select in the UK did lie to us about being the developers, now they are claiming they never ever said this to be the case! Everyone I have spoken to thought that SP was the developer. Now with the farce happening and we all lost our money, now SP are claiming no wrong doing as they never was the developers! Surely this is fraud! SP refuses to acknowledge my concerns because in their own words - we never said we were the developer and yet I have proof that they said they were back in 2006! They also claim the global crisis is the reason for the delays and yet we know the delays was due to the plans alterations! Again a case of fraud!

Select in the UK did lie to us about being the developers, now they are claiming they never ever said this to be the case! Everyone I have spoken to thought that SP was the developer. Now with the farce happening and we all lost our money, now SP are claiming no wrong doing as they never was the developers! Surely this is fraud! SP refuses to acknowledge my concerns because in their own words - we never said we were the developer and yet I have proof that they said they were back in 2006! They also claim the global crisis is the reason for the delays and yet we know the delays was due to the plans alterations! Again a case of fraud!

When did you sign the contract? 2005/6/7? I can't remember. It's important.

2006 I paid into this farce under the understanding that this was a British development.

If I knew what I do now, I would not had brought into it.

I would never had brought into a foreign development because having spent most of life working overseas I have a view not to do business with foreign companies. Because this was sold to me as a british project that I did. We all know now that this was a select properties (dubai select) missell lie and also a fraud that I want the authorities in the UK to investigate.

2006 I paid into this farce under the understanding that this was a British development.

If I knew what I do now, I would not had brought into it.

I would never had brought into a foreign development because having spent most of life working overseas I have a view not to do business with foreign companies. Because this was sold to me as a british project that I did. We all know now that this was a select properties (dubai select) missell lie and also a fraud that I want the authorities in the UK to investigate.

2006, that was the most interesting year. which part of 2006. It makes a -huge- difference if you are not aware why then you need to know.

2006, that was the most interesting year. which part of 2006. It makes a -huge- difference if you are not aware why then you need to know.

We too were 2006, rather early on.

Steve it has been explained in black and white on this forum by many different members what the procedure is. I have my doubts that you are either a slow learner or you are deliberately trying to smoke screen the issue.


The case must first be taken to arbitration for the facts to be considered by a specialist in the field of the dispute.
Once a decision is passed down by the court of arbitration, both parties must abide by this descision. Ultimately Select will not, so you then have to take them to the law courts. This is a formality as the Judge will accept the desicion of the arbiter and will only look to see if the correct procedures were followed.
Once the judge is happy that everything was done properly by the court of arbitration, then the law court will rubber stamp the arbitration judgement and order the losing party to pay. Note that no new evidence or appeals can be introduced, the only thing that could be considered is a technical issue with the arbitration procedure, in which case you will need to start again.
If the losing party fails to pay up within 14 days, then the court will seize assets and possibly even their trading licenses. Their licenses will have considerable cash bonds attached. They lose their license, they lose the bond (approx£1 million for each license)


The MO of Select is to fail to cooperate throughout the entire process until the judgement is made against them, then they are wise enough to cough up. They are bound to pay the court of arbitration fees but will not, you will have to pay their portion. That is automatically a sign of how untrustworthy and unfit to be in business that they are.

I haven't heard of anyone going through the process and losing yet. some have even studied the procedure and gone alone without lawyers and still won. They seem to be the most wide open company in Dubai as they have not acted appropriately in their business dealings and have plenty of assets available to sieze.

I have been very busy finding out some facts and have just returned from Dubai. The trip was an eye opener and believe me everyone I found out some interesting facts which I will share with those who have not yet fallen to SG’s lies and well orchestrated PR games.

More to come from me and I will not hold back for those who are looking for the truth.

Always interested in the truth Micromonro1. Look forward to your information.

So if a person wins in arbitration & gets the judges stamp he gets monies or the chance to seize assets. Would it be true that some of Selects assets are as well as the licences the remaining LPP on existing apartments?

I have been very busy finding out some facts and have just returned from Dubai. The trip was an eye opener and believe me everyone I found out some interesting facts which I will share with those who have not yet fallen to SG’s lies and well orchestrated PR games.

More to come from me and I will not hold back for those who are looking for the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by micmonro1 http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=87716698#post87716698)
I totally agree with SGrCrap and I would like to inform Botanica's investors that law are on your side with regards to your unit size. If you were supplied with a unit that is 5% or more less than the size your were promised then the developer has to pay you. Also if the developer supplied you a unit that is 5% or more than the size you agreed to buy then at this situation you are not obliged to pay the difference because you can successfully argue that you did not ask the developer for more when you bought the unit and Dubai's court will accepts your rights to refuse to pay the difference. Please know your rights

I have been very busy finding out some facts and have just returned from Dubai. The trip was an eye opener and believe me everyone I found out some interesting facts which I will share with those who have not yet fallen to SG’s lies and well orchestrated PR games.

More to come from me and I will not hold back for those who are looking for the truth.

For all you movie buffs and poor souls who are now so dejected you want to give up,,, remember "Erin Brokovich"! Remember "The wizard of Oz". This is the reality. SG are preying on your fear and ignorance using smoke and mirrors. They have become extremely efficient and plausible on these forums. Do not be fooled or give in. They are not as powerful as they would have you believe. They are good at what they do! ( an ambiguous statement indeed),,, take it how you like! They spend more time monitoring and posting on these forums than they do consulting their own lawyer,,, ( yes lawyer,,,and not lawyer'S). The legal people they hire don't last more than a few months before they are quickly replaced by other unfortunate individuals who are under the misconception that SG are only "a little bit" corrupt),,, look and see! ,, these crooks have been repeatedly firing their own legal dept since 2005.

These forums are a powerful medium and SG have learned to exploit it more than you will ever know. SG 'WILL' be exposed. Investors who take them through the Dubai courts will get a refund. Don't threaten them. They will only ignore you. You need to make them see you are serious. I've been reading statements like this on these forums for four years now. I was dubious. "A few brave or rich people with nothing to lose" I thought. Turns out every word they said was true. Now I find myself in the same position as them,,only four years down the road. Do it now. Be brave. You will not fail. SG are absolutely terrified of a mutiny. The only ammunition they have is their conviction that they can fool most of the people all of the time. (you really do have to applaude them I suppose). More and more investors are beginning to listen to people like micmonro. It takes time for the truth to come out, but it's coming now. Yes, it's been a long time but please believe this will end and they will be exposed for the brazen crooks we all know they are.
Last edited by The night (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/posthistory.php?p=87748752); Yesterday at 11:50 AM.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/report.php?p=87748752) http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/buttons/edit.gif (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=87748752)

Quote:
Originally Posted by micmonro1 http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=87716698#post87716698)
I totally agree with SGrCrap and I would like to inform Botanica's investors that law are on your side with regards to your unit size. If you were supplied with a unit that is 5% or more less than the size your were promised then the developer has to pay you. Also if the developer supplied you a unit that is 5% or more than the size you agreed to buy then at this situation you are not obliged to pay the difference because you can successfully argue that you did not ask the developer for more when you bought the unit and Dubai's court will accepts your rights to refuse to pay the difference. Please know your rights

I have been very busy finding out some facts and have just returned from Dubai. The trip was an eye opener and believe me everyone I found out some interesting facts which I will share with those who have not yet fallen to SG’s lies and well orchestrated PR games.

More to come from me and I will not hold back for those who are looking for the truth.

For all you movie buffs and poor souls who are now so dejected you want to give up,,, remember "Erin Brokovich"! Remember "The wizard of Oz". This is the reality. SG are preying on your fear and ignorance using smoke and mirrors. They have become extremely efficient and plausible on these forums. Do not be fooled or give in. They are not as powerful as they would have you believe. They are good at what they do! ( an ambiguous statement indeed),,, take it how you like! They spend more time monitoring and posting on these forums than they do consulting their own lawyer,,, ( yes lawyer,,,and not lawyer'S). The legal people they hire don't last more than a few months before they are quickly replaced by other unfortunate individuals who are under the misconception that SG are only "a little bit" corrupt),,, look and see! ,, these crooks have been repeatedly firing their own legal dept since 2005.

These forums are a powerful medium and SG have learned to exploit it more than you will ever know. SG 'WILL' be exposed. Investors who take them through the Dubai courts will get a refund. Don't threaten them. They will only ignore you. You need to make them see you are serious. I've been reading statements like this on these forums for four years now. I was dubious. "A few brave or rich people with nothing to lose" I thought. Turns out every word they said was true. Now I find myself in the same position as them,,only four years down the road. Do it now. Be brave. You will not fail. SG are absolutely terrified of a mutiny. The only ammunition they have is their conviction that they can fool most of the people all of the time. (you really do have to applaude them I suppose). More and more investors are beginning to listen to people like micmonro. It takes time for the truth to come out, but it's coming now. Yes, it's been a long time but please believe this will end and they will be exposed for the brazen crooks we all know they are. Last edited by The night (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/posthistory.php?p=87748752); Yesterday at 11:50 AM.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/report.php?p=87748752) http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/buttons/edit.gif (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=87748752)

The legal route definitely pays off. Good luck everyone :runaway:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MANUTD View Post
Yes i'm in here unfortunately - I'm told quite a few are in Arbitration in THE TORCH -- but i dont know of any "victories" as such




Yes, MANUTD,,,, you are correct,,,, Arbitration has been successful for many investors.

Why would SG want "victories" splashed all over these forums?

Wonder what agreement they reached?

All the regular disgruntled contributors to these forums who spent so much time threatening legal action have disappeared into thin air.
Do you think they 'gave up' ,,,,, or did SG just have them all shot? Investor activity on these forums is now a fraction of what it was a year ago.
The only regular contributors left are 'SG', 'Imre',, people who signed addendums and others who seem to be overly concerned about the views from their balcony's.

So many of those unhappy people who 'posted' with such conviction ARE gone. How come?

They have reached an amicable resolution and signed gagging clause. Remember 'Mistermark'. He DID tell us a long time ago

Ladies & Gentlemen,

The net is closing in on Rahail Aslam. We are making headway with a very senior official at the Dubai government. We have been collecting information on how Mr Aslam has been behaving towards investors and will soon be publishing a file disclosing facts that fully incriminate Mr Aslam.

Anyone wishing to get money out of SG or any of its little subsidiaries, my advice is to do it quickly. I don’t think SG will be around next year.

Heres just a small sample of some data which tells you everything you need to know about Rahail Aslam and his crooked ways.

An excerpt for the lazy;

“Sir Martin Nourse, delivering the Court’s judgment, found that CIL was unable to rely upon the good faith defence because its controller, Mr Aslam, must have known that the £50,000 payment that CIL received was actually made by the Company, rather than by Mr Susca personally, and that the payment was made at a time when the Company was insolvent.”

Full ruling;

http://www.mayerbrown.com/london/article.asp?id=3338&nid=369

Where will the LPP payments go to if Select Group are not around?

Good question Steve. In your case to another company that has bought the assets off Select or gained by bankruptcy ie your LPP portion of your apartment. So anybody taking Select to court looking to get paid out could be your next landlord.

^^ I hope any new landlord will stick to the agreement and allow reduction in price for early repayments as Select have done.

Ladies & Gentlemen,

The net is closing in on Rahail Aslam. We are making headway with a very senior official at the Dubai government. We have been collecting information on how Mr Aslam has been behaving towards investors and will soon be publishing a file disclosing facts that fully incriminate Mr Aslam.

Anyone wishing to get money out of SG or any of its little subsidiaries, my advice is to do it quickly. I don’t think SG will be around next year.

Heres just a small sample of some data which tells you everything you need to know about Rahail Aslam and his crooked ways.

An excerpt for the lazy;

“Sir Martin Nourse, delivering the Court’s judgment, found that CIL was unable to rely upon the good faith defence because its controller, Mr Aslam, must have known that the £50,000 payment that CIL received was actually made by the Company, rather than by Mr Susca personally, and that the payment was made at a time when the Company was insolvent.”

Full ruling;

http://www.mayerbrown.com/london/article.asp?id=3338&nid=369

This refers to an allegation of improperly moving money out of an insolvent UK company, a long time before Aslam set up shop in Dubai. If the UK authorities were unable to get him banged to rights, what chance the corrupt and incompetent Dubai ones? There's a big gap between proving someone is dodgy and getting redress.

This refers to an allegation of improperly moving money out of an insolvent UK company, a long time before Aslam set up shop in Dubai. If the UK authorities were unable to get him banged to rights, what chance the corrupt and incompetent Dubai ones? There's a big gap between proving someone is dodgy and getting redress.

No, you are wrong.

This does not refer to an allegation. This refers to a court judgement to which remedial action was necessary, demanded and implemented by a UK court. We have only disclosed one detail of the full file we have on Rahail Aslam. We have a trail of similar incidents of such acts in the UK and are currently speaking to several people who are willing to provide written testimony which will be used in a court of law here in the UK. This is just one instance that was dealt with through the courts.

Do you think this was an isolated incident?

We believe that one of the reasons Mr Aslam is in Dubai is the fact that he believes it is a safe haven from some of his dealings in Cheshire.

We agree that the UAE law system is impotent. The UK system is not, this is why we are going to use it to bring him down legitimately. Rahail Aslam can do what he wants in Dubai, but he cannot erase his corporate history in the UK. All of his business activities are available for the public record and he has a lot to lose now he has made some money.

Corporate fraud if proven is a very serious offence, as is money laundering and tax evasion. There is a high appetite for UK authorities wanting to be seen as successful in capturing such offenders, wherever they reside.

Rarely does someone go from selling cars to controlling a multi-million dollar property empire without upsetting a few people along the way. The problem is if one has left evidence of wrong doing, then due to one’s success, one has a lot more to lose.

Every company bar one, that Rahail Aslam has had a Directorship of in the UK has been wound up, dissolved or liquidated. Ever wonder why? Something to hide perhaps? 13 companies and none of them were sound enough to continue trading?

There is a lot we don’t know yet, but there is a lot we do know and in time we will have enough to pass to the UK authorities so that Mr Aslam’s past becomes his new problem.

No, you are wrong.

This does not refer to an allegation. This refers to a court judgement to which remedial action was necessary, demanded and implemented by a UK court. We have only disclosed one detail of the full file we have on Rahail Aslam. We have a trail of similar incidents of such acts in the UK and are currently speaking to several people who are willing to provide written testimony which will be used in a court of law here in the UK. This is just one instance that was dealt with through the courts.

Do you think this was an isolated incident?

We believe that one of the reasons Mr Aslam is in Dubai is the fact that he believes it is a safe haven from some of his dealings in Cheshire.

We agree that the UAE law system is impotent. The UK system is not, this is why we are going to use it to bring him down legitimately. Rahail Aslam can do what he wants in Dubai, but he cannot erase his corporate history in the UK. All of his business activities are available for the public record and he has a lot to lose now he has made some money.

Corporate fraud if proven is a very serious offence, as is money laundering and tax evasion. There is a high appetite for UK authorities wanting to be seen as successful in capturing such offenders, wherever they reside.

Rarely does someone go from selling cars to controlling a multi-million dollar property empire without upsetting a few people along the way. The problem is if one has left evidence of wrong doing, then due to one’s success, one has a lot more to lose.

Every company bar one, that Rahail Aslam has had a Directorship of in the UK has been wound up, dissolved or liquidated. Ever wonder why? Something to hide perhaps? 13 companies and none of them were sound enough to continue trading?

There is a lot we don’t know yet, but there is a lot we do know and in time we will have enough to pass to the UK authorities so that Mr Aslam’s past becomes his new problem.

Yes my guy dug up 13 companies too funnily enough

Good luck with your efforts , I couldn't imagine ruinning a business in the fashion you mention , but sometimes people seem to get on like that , not for me though :)

Hope one day soon there may be redress of some fashion lets see what happens :cheers:

^^ I hope any new landlord will stick to the agreement and allow reduction in price for early repayments as Select have done.

They would HAVE TO contractually ==oh but theres the problem :lol::lol:

I've spent the last three weeks going over my 3 bed unit in the Point with a fine toothcomb. The smug *unts/Select Group bum chums will no doubt bang on about the Point being totally different to other Select Developments but the simple fact is.... it was built by the same monkeys who built the Torch and the issues I've found are apparently widespread throughout Dubai.

For those who want to get ahead of the curve this is the technical breakdown of what's wrong with DCE's pipe lagging and for that matter pretty much every other building in Dubai which was knocked up on the cheap with no quality control or oversight by the developer. In no particular order:-

- The pipe insulation is not cut correctly around elbow joints, gate valves, drain valves and support brackets (the brackets support the chiller pipe runs by tying them into the concrete ceiling)

- DCE taped all the insulation so it looks like everything is nice and tidy but this is where the problem lies. To identify an area of poor insulation you need to either spot the condensation or feel around each joint very carefully. Where the condensation has presented itself you will always find an area where the insulation is either too thin or is simply not present. You've really got to get your fingers into find the problems - if you feel cold it's a sign the insulation is poor or not there. I've found completely exposed chiller pipe in the worst cases. The difficult places to lag are notorious for gaps in the insulation. Eg where the CHWS pipe runs very close to the AC drain and the pipes touch. Or where the chiller water pipe is up tight against the ac outlet ducting. You'll also find virtually every joint is poorly lagged ie elbows, valves etc.

- I've completed the re-lagging exercise in my 3 bed unit and it's not an easy job if you want it done properly. I stripped back the insulation, removed condensed water and rust, treated corroded areas with zinc oxide, remade the insulation properly, re-taped it and then covered the repaired areas with aluminium foil tape to improve the thermal insulation even further.

- I had to cut two ceiling access holes in the corridor to lag support brackets and two elbows which were poorly insulated. I also repaired any water damage on the ceiling side of the plasterboard - the condensation drips make holes in the plasterboard which will eventually fail and leak directly into your unit. After filling the damaged areas I treated both sides of the plasterboard with an oil based paint to protect them in the event of any future condensation. Shouldn't be a problem now due to lagging everything properly.

- Basically every FCU (fan coil unit) will need a lot of remedial lagging done around it is there are normally quite a few gate valves to allow the unit to be taken out of circuit for servicing/repair etc.

- Someone suggested 700 AED to get this done. If you want some clown to stand on some step ladders and put some tape around your condensing pipes then rock on. It won't solve the problem!

To do this properly the insulation needs to be spot on. Botannica and the Torch do have lagged pipes - so did the Point. The point (pardon the pun) I'm making is I think the probability of the chiller pipes being poorly insulated in the Torch, Botanica, BC etc is almost 1. Ie certain. The condensation problems won't present themselves for a good while after handover as the water will be building up inside the lagging and dripping onto the 60x60 ceiling panels and onto the plasterboard ceilings. The problem will only become apparent about 12-18 months after handover when things start failing due to excessive condensation in your roof voids. If you see your 60x60 panels starting to warp then suspect trouble!

If anyone wants a list of materials let me know - doing this yourself doesn't cost much but it's a dirty and time consuming job. It would be much easier to do it in newer buildings as the surface level rust on the chiller pipes won't have really taken hold yet so you won't have rusty water running down your arms when you open up the old lagging!

Before idiots start posting pro Select crap about all their developments post the Point being top notch and perfect - I challenge these morons to revisit their units 1 year from now (after a nice hot summer) - let's see whether condensation problems have reared their head in SG developments by 12/02/13. If they have - I will be dishing it out to all the twits who drank too much Select Group coolaide

I've spent the last three weeks going over my 3 bed unit in the Point with a fine toothcomb. The smug *unts/Select Group bum chums will no doubt bang on about the Point being totally different to other Select Developments but the simple fact is.... it was built by the same monkeys who built the Torch and the issues I've found are apparently widespread throughout Dubai.

For those who want to get ahead of the curve this is the technical breakdown of what's wrong with DCE's pipe lagging and for that matter pretty much every other building in Dubai which was knocked up on the cheap with no quality control or oversight by the developer. In no particular order:-

- The pipe insulation is not cut correctly around elbow joints, gate valves, drain valves and support brackets (the brackets support the chiller pipe runs by tying them into the concrete ceiling)

- DCE taped all the insulation so it looks like everything is nice and tidy but this is where the problem lies. To identify an area of poor insulation you need to either spot the condensation or feel around each joint very carefully. Where the condensation has presented itself you will always find an area where the insulation is either too thin or is simply not present. You've really got to get your fingers into find the problems - if you feel cold it's a sign the insulation is poor or not there. I've found completely exposed chiller pipe in the worst cases. The difficult places to lag are notorious for gaps in the insulation. Eg where the CHWS pipe runs very close to the AC drain and the pipes touch. Or where the chiller water pipe is up tight against the ac outlet ducting. You'll also find virtually every joint is poorly lagged ie elbows, valves etc.

- I've completed the re-lagging exercise in my 3 bed unit and it's not an easy job if you want it done properly. I stripped back the insulation, removed condensed water and rust, treated corroded areas with zinc oxide, remade the insulation properly, re-taped it and then covered the repaired areas with aluminium foil tape to improve the thermal insulation even further.

- I had to cut two ceiling access holes in the corridor to lag support brackets and two elbows which were poorly insulated. I also repaired any water damage on the ceiling side of the plasterboard - the condensation drips make holes in the plasterboard which will eventually fail and leak directly into your unit. After filling the damaged areas I treated both sides of the plasterboard with an oil based paint to protect them in the event of any future condensation. Shouldn't be a problem now due to lagging everything properly.

- Basically every FCU (fan coil unit) will need a lot of remedial lagging done around it is there are normally quite a few gate valves to allow the unit to be taken out of circuit for servicing/repair etc.

- Someone suggested 700 AED to get this done. If you want some clown to stand on some step ladders and put some tape around your condensing pipes then rock on. It won't solve the problem!

To do this properly the insulation needs to be spot on. Botannica and the Torch do have lagged pipes - so did the Point. The point (pardon the pun) I'm making is I think the probability of the chiller pipes being poorly insulated in the Torch, Botanica, BC etc is almost 1. Ie certain. The condensation problems won't present themselves for a good while after handover as the water will be building up inside the lagging and dripping onto the 60x60 ceiling panels and onto the plasterboard ceilings. The problem will only become apparent about 12-18 months after handover when things start failing due to excessive condensation in your roof voids. If you see your 60x60 panels starting to warp then suspect trouble!

If anyone wants a list of materials let me know - doing this yourself doesn't cost much but it's a dirty and time consuming job. It would be much easier to do it in newer buildings as the surface level rust on the chiller pipes won't have really taken hold yet so you won't have rusty water running down your arms when you open up the old lagging!

Before idiots start posting pro Select crap about all their developments post the Point being top notch and perfect - I challenge these morons to revisit their units 1 year from now (after a nice hot summer) - let's see whether condensation problems have reared their head in SG developments by 12/02/13. If they have - I will be dishing it out to all the twits who drank too much Select Group coolaide

Thanks for this as it is very very useful info! First thing I will do in bay central is have a look or if you are in town buy you a beer or two to have a quick shifty?

"Homes from Hell the Dubai dream" on ITV on Tuesday 13 March 8pm.
Look out Select here it comes..

"Homes from Hell the Dubai dream" on ITV on Tuesday 13 March 8pm.
Look out Select here it comes..

Well there was a Torch investor in the show - however no mention of The Torch!!

Furthermore, on 'homes from hell' they mentioned I think more than once that Sheikh Mohammed said investors would not lose money....
Apparently he said much more than that (not mentioned in the program for some reason):
http://selectdubaibeware.com/Sheikh_Mohammed_guarantee_capital_of_investors_Newspaper_Article/Article_Al_Bayan_From_Sheikh.pdf

Furthermore, on 'homes from hell' they mentioned I think more than once that Sheikh Mohammed said investors would not lose money....
Apparently he said much more than that (not mentioned in the program for some reason):
http://selectdubaibeware.com/Sheikh_Mohammed_guarantee_capital_of_investors_Newspaper_Article/Article_Al_Bayan_From_Sheikh.pdf

Any one fancy taking on Sheikh Mo ??

22/March/2012

http://i40.tinypic.com/14l35na.jpg

22/March/2012

http://i40.tinypic.com/14l35na.jpg

That reminds me - are they registered at the OFT for MLR? beautiful cab - virgin pure white innocence - hopefully all those who deserve it get what they deserve!!

What evidence do you have that they have only used investors funds ?? There are plenty of other ways to raise finance. The owner Rahail Aslam is worth over £100m and is featured in the Sunday Times Rich List. The MD Mark Stott is also very wealthy in his own right. Perhaps the owners have put capital into the business. Perhaps bank finance is involved. Or other equity partners ?? Who knows. But it's pure speculation to suggest they are only using investors funds for expansion.

So what's wrong with making a fortune from a computer business and then diversifying into property ?? What's wrong with owning a chain of luxury car showrooms in the UK and diversifying into property ?? You're right the restless never make any money by standing still. Look at Richard Branson, starting off selling records now he's into airlines, holidays, drinks, TV and media, cosmetics, trains, ballooning, finance, even looking to take over Northern Rock. Why do you deny the owners of DS the right to be ambitious ??

What do you mean by the escrow law is too late for DS investors ?? We know that DS were way ahead of the game by launching Bay Central over a year ago with the first escrow account in Dubai. I'd be very surprised if they were found not to have organised their finances to comply with the escrow law on their other developments.

DS have launched three projetcs in Dubai and all are under construction, yes they are going to be delayed but there's very few developments that come in on time in Dubai - at least DS investors haven't got the problems other have eg. The Atlantic, Dubai Lagoon and the Wind Tower.

I just think you're trying to cause trouble Salameer. :bash:


Name & Registered Office:
THE NORTH AND SOUTH COMPANY LIMITED
Company No. 03836236

Accounting Reference Date: 31/12
Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2004 (FULL)
Next Accounts Due: 31/10/2006 OVERDUE
Last Return Made Up To: 06/09/2007
Next Return Due: 04/10/2008 OVERDUE



Case Number: 1
Case Type: Compulsory Liquidation

Practitioner name: OR MANCHESTER, THE OFFICIAL RECEIVER
Practitioner address: 1ST FLOOR
BOULTON HOUSE
17-21 CHORLTON STREET
MANCHESTER
M1 3HY

Practitioner name: OR LONDON, THE OFFICIAL RECEIVER
Practitioner address: 21 BLOOMSBURY STREET
LONDON
WC1B 3SS

Do people check out the CEO's before investing with a company?
I know I would not invest with a company run by someone with this track record. It would make be even more nervous about signing 'addenda' which place me in a riskier situation.

it's got to a point where I can't take any more from Select

^^ Why, what have they done now?

^^ Why, what have they done now?

Accused me of breach of contract when they themselves have breached the terms of the SPA.

Completion date of bay central according to their own notice was 15th feb.
I notified them they were in breach of the spa and stopped paying.

They in return accused me of breach of contract and issued me with termination notice:ohno:

We'll see who the courts favor! I'm sure they are reading!

You not the only one who had lost money from Select Properties (UK) and Select Group.
This month alone, I had received another two emails from new people claiming the same as you. The total number of people unhappy with Select is staggering!

The number of people who are happy with Select is quite staggering also, I believe it was as high as 3 at last count!!

^^
No! it's 2 only.

Select Steve.... doesn't count, he is an employee/shareholder.:runaway:

No, make that 4, I am happy enough, numerous phone calls from agents asking if I am renting or selling, as the Torch (sorry this is the Select thread) is very popular, I got 95.000 last year, I am now told I could get 115.000 this year.

a.

No, make that 4, I am happy enough, numerous phone calls from agents asking if I am renting or selling, as the Torch (sorry this is the Select thread) is very popular, I got 95.000 last year, I am now told I could get 115.000 this year.

a.

Are you able to increase your rent by such an amount or is there a law that caps the rental increase each year - we are new to this game so any information on this would be appreciated!!

I think IMRE posted the rules somewhere, I think it is when a Tenant renews, if its a new Tenant perhaps the rule doesnt apply.

I think IMRE posted the rules somewhere, I think it is when a Tenant renews, if its a new Tenant perhaps the rule doesnt apply.

Thanks - that could well be the case and sounds reasonable ( although i would obviously like to increase our rental income from 90,000 a year!!)

I think IMRE posted the rules somewhere, I think it is when a Tenant renews, if its a new Tenant perhaps the rule doesnt apply.

If its a new tenant you can increase anything , for the renewal the latest rules:

Increases can only occur if the property was more than 25 per cent below the average index price.

If the rent was 26 per cent to 35 per cent less than the average rent for a similar property, the maximum increase shall be equivalent to 5 per cent of rent value.

If the rent was 36 per cent to 45 per cent less than the average rent for a similar property, the maximum increase shall be equivalent to 10 per cent of rent value.

If the rent was 46 per cent to 55 per cent less than the average rent for a similar property, the maximum increase shall be equivalent to 15 per cent of rent value.

If the rent was 56 per cent to 55 per cent less than the average rent for a similar property, the maximum increase shall be equivalent to 20 per cent of rent value.

:cheers:

If its a new tenant you can increase anything , for the renewal the latest rules:

Hi IMRE

Where's the avg price list posted please ?

Accused me of breach of contract when they themselves have breached the terms of the SPA.

Completion date of bay central according to their own notice was 15th feb.
I notified them they were in breach of the spa and stopped paying.

They in return accused me of breach of contract and issued me with termination notice:ohno:

We'll see who the courts favor! I'm sure they are reading!

They will fight all the way and use any means at their disposal -but you are in the right believe me !

Hi IMRE

Where's the avg price list posted please ?

Its on the DLD website but doesnt work now..

http://dubailand.gov.ae/English/eServices/EngMain.aspx (Rental Increase Calculator)

No, make that 4, I am happy enough, numerous phone calls from agents asking if I am renting or selling, as the Torch (sorry this is the Select thread) is very popular, I got 95.000 last year, I am now told I could get 115.000 this year.

a.

Al, that's all conjecture and Agent talk! If you get 115k then all well and good however if your tenant leaves at 95k then that tells it's own story IMO.

How many apartments like yours will be coming on the market at the same time?

We were in Dubai at the start of the month and visited The Torch a couple of times. It was great to see it being 'lived in' - the pool and gym were busy and people sunbathing on the terraces. All the communal areas were very clean and there was a 'buzz' about the place! As owners we felt really positive!

The building is really taken well care of. The facilities management are the best I've ever experience in Dubai, with a Call Centre, a dedicated team , and they simply turn up and do the job. WE've had more than a few issues there, but my god they have been sorted straight away. So no complaints....

We saw the boss ( a welsh man ) in action - directing his team - Must say he seemed passionate about what he was doing ( and heard from a third party that he is very proud of The Torch and works very hard to raise and maintain standards there!!) Very positive!!

Nice to hear some positivity for a change around here.

^^None of that is down to Select though, it is the building management that they are referring to!!!!

You like to complain about me and others doing exactly what you do yourself without shame :D

This is the SELECT BASHING THREAD so stick to the subject matter :lol:

Accused me of breach of contract when they themselves have breached the terms of the SPA.

Completion date of bay central according to their own notice was 15th feb.
I notified them they were in breach of the spa and stopped paying.

They in return accused me of breach of contract and issued me with termination notice:ohno:

We'll see who the courts favor! I'm sure they are reading!

[QUOTE=Dubai_Steve;90016972]Nice to hear some positivity for a change around here.[/QUOTE

"The trust of the innocent is the liars most useful tool!"
(Stephen King).

www.selectdubaibeware.com has been updated e.g. the Rahail Aslam profile.

Apart from that and not relating to 'Select' in any particular location -

There is so much yet to be divulged in the public interest, and it will be, for all those who have invested with Select and those who plan to etc.

The publishers of the site have spoken with a high profile lawyer who 'apparently' has no affiliations with Select, and based on some 'strong' 'evidence' indicated that despite that evidence which he felt was not 'evidence' and that they were fine, but when the word 'publicity' was mentioned he said, not just once, but twice "you will receive a death threat"

www.selectdubaibeware.com has been updated e.g. the Rahail Aslam profile.

Apart from that and not relating to 'Select' in any particular location -

There is so much yet to be divulged in the public interest, and it will be, for all those who have invested with Select and those who plan to etc.

The publishers of the site have spoken with a high profile lawyer who 'apparently' has no affiliations with Select, and based on some 'strong' 'evidence' indicated that despite that evidence which he felt was not 'evidence' and that they were fine, but when the word 'publicity' was mentioned he said, not just once, but twice "you will receive a death threat"

It seems that our Rahail's been a busy boy. Keep up the good work.

I think IMRE posted the rules somewhere, I think it is when a Tenant renews, if its a new Tenant perhaps the rule doesnt apply.

You cannot increase the rent for a new tenant, certainly not on the first renewal.
Psofos

From the Torch thread

We found this really useful, thanks:

http://www.selectdubaibeware.com/Sel...ales_Agent.pdf

It shows how for over 2 years Mark Stott's company appeared in the newspapers, including the financial times, as a developer, then:

in March 2008 Select Property
took the landmark decision
to move into overseas
property development



What we don't understand is the reservation form that people signed. It made no mention of the developer, and in the case where it said 'agent', which was the only time we ever saw that term used, we, presumably like other people thought that it referred to the sales agent for commission, e.g. Adam Price, and wrote the name beside it so that he could get his commission - we think he even asked us to do that - not sure.

If you feel you have been defrauded, and maybe you have already contacted the serious fraud office - then do it again!!!! now!!!

Case -NOT OVER- period.

Any case of criminally masterminded fraud casting people into a fifteen year deal whereby they might feel 'blackmailed' or otherwise into continuing payments for fear of losing everything must be reported to the police and the SFO - such people might be subject to e.g. a developer massively delaying construction and using funds to start new projects whilst looking forward to people suffering financial hardship so that they could simply keep all money paid to date, plus their apartment, with no real legal recourse - e.g. the system in Dubai seems to favour the developer and to continue paying 'installments' and in addition paying legal fees in a system which ultimately favours the developer , and where cases continue not for months but years...sigh - who said 'scam'?

will this provide us all relief from having to sign the addendums, late delivery, facilities and other many issues with them.

http://www.emirates247.com/property/real-estate/lifeline-for-dubai-investors-to-get-full-refund-if-developers-default-2012-04-29-1.456094

^^Just a proposal at this time, needs to be finalised and posted as law before it becomes a useable legal instrument.

Seems a shame that the authorities are starting to get their act together after the horse has bolted. Obviously the authorities are well aware that unscrupulous developers have been preparing glossy sales material showing ficticious designs and standards of finish that they have no intention of including in the final product. The intention only being to deceive purchasers and obtain the signatures.

I think off plan is over for Select, they won't be able to sell another development from doctored pictures. Buyers will not pay a cent until they see the finished item in future.

^^Just a proposal at this time, needs to be finalised and posted as law before it becomes a useable legal instrument.

Seems a shame that the authorities are starting to get their act together after the horse has bolted. Obviously the authorities are well aware that unscrupulous developers have been preparing glossy sales material showing ficticious designs and standards of finish that they have no intention of including in the final product. The intention only being to deceive purchasers and obtain the signatures.

I think off plan is over for Select, they won't be able to sell another development from doctored pictures. Buyers will not pay a cent until they see the finished item in future.

Correct - I can not see anyone in the future falling for their outright lies without seeing exactly what these cowboys are selling. Also there will be plenty of properties for sale in Dubai, so why would you buy from these guys again.

Correct - I can not see anyone in the future falling for their outright lies without seeing exactly what these cowboys are selling. Also there will be plenty of properties for sale in Dubai, so why would you buy from these guys again.

I dont even think they are going to try to build anything here anymore with the kind of reputation that they have now.

^^Just a proposal at this time, needs to be finalised and posted as law before it becomes a useable legal instrument.

Seems a shame that the authorities are starting to get their act together after the horse has bolted. Obviously the authorities are well aware that unscrupulous developers have been preparing glossy sales material showing ficticious designs and standards of finish that they have no intention of including in the final product. The intention only being to deceive purchasers and obtain the signatures.

I think off plan is over for Select, they won't be able to sell another development from doctored pictures. Buyers will not pay a cent until they see the finished item in future.

Far worse - deceiving people that the developer is U.K., planning permission is in place to start the build, supervisory architects K&H, 3 year delay using funds to commence other projects then claiming Force Majeure, the forcing people to sign away their rights with crazy addenda etc etc, preventing handover but investors still having to pay even after 6 years for another 9 years with no handover for fear of losing all money paid to date

Far worse - deceiving people that the developer is U.K., planning permission is in place to start the build, supervisory architects K&H, 3 year delay using funds to commence other projects then claiming Force Majeure, the forcing people to sign away their rights with crazy addenda etc etc, preventing handover but investors still having to pay even after 6 years for another 9 years with no handover for fear of losing all money paid to date

Potential investors would include social media research and WOM before buying in Dubai. This being the case they will see Select Group and Select Property for the cowboys they really are!
Psofos.

investors still having to pay even after 6 years for another 9 years with no handover for fear of losing all money paid to date

(Even though you have not signed addendum 2 to get handover) Don't you still have a fear of losing all money paid to date if you do not pay your next 9 years LPP instalments as agreed in the SPA?

Correct - I can not see anyone in the future falling for their outright lies without seeing exactly what these cowboys are selling. Also there will be plenty of properties for sale in Dubai, so why would you buy from these guys again.

I think you can be fairly sure that any new Select developments would have a lot of "useful help and tips" on this forum for any potential new investors with this developer......:ohno:

This could be interesting:

http://www.propertywire.com/news/mid...205016475.html

New Dubai law to give buyers full refund if developer fails to deliver on time
Tuesday, 01 May 2012

Dubai property investors are set to get a full refund if developers default on handover under a proposed new Investor Protection Law that could be in force by the end of June 2012.


The proposal also makes it mandatory for developers to provide all promised common facilities. It means that if there are delays and failures investors will be eligible for cancellation of their contracts and get a full refund.

It also means that swimming pools, gyms or any other promised facilities will have to be ready before officially handing over the keys to the new owners.

This comes as a growing number of developers have failed to provide the facilities mentioned in their sales purchase agreements (SPAs) or marketing material. Until now, buyers did not have much recourse and could only hope that the facilities would get completed at some point in time.

Developers will also face fines if the units they promise are not delivered on time, or to agreed specifications.

A proposed provision of the draft law also says that if a unit turns out to be 30% smaller than the actual net area in the contract, the investor will have the right to cancel the contract and obtain a full refund.

In case of off plan sales, the draft proposes to make it mandatory for a developer to get all approvals from the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) and to register all saleable units with the Dubai Land Department’s online registration system.

The developer is also obliged to register all contracts with RERA and to provide all information regarding the project’s handover, escrow account, etc.

According to Sultan Bin Mejren, director general of the Dubai Land Department, the new law could be implemented by the end of June.

Following the global economic slowdown of 2008, there are still hundreds of property projects on hold in Dubai. According to the latest figures from 165 projects have been completed since the beginning of 2009, 291 projects are on hold, 291 projects are likely to be completed in due course, and 29 projects have not yet been started.

This could be interesting:

http://www.propertywire.com/news/mid...205016475.html

New Dubai law to give buyers full refund if developer fails to deliver on time
Tuesday, 01 May 2012

Dubai property investors are set to get a full refund if developers default on handover under a proposed new Investor Protection Law that could be in force by the end of June 2012.


The proposal also makes it mandatory for developers to provide all promised common facilities. It means that if there are delays and failures investors will be eligible for cancellation of their contracts and get a full refund.

It also means that swimming pools, gyms or any other promised facilities will have to be ready before officially handing over the keys to the new owners.

This comes as a growing number of developers have failed to provide the facilities mentioned in their sales purchase agreements (SPAs) or marketing material. Until now, buyers did not have much recourse and could only hope that the facilities would get completed at some point in time.

Developers will also face fines if the units they promise are not delivered on time, or to agreed specifications.

A proposed provision of the draft law also says that if a unit turns out to be 30% smaller than the actual net area in the contract, the investor will have the right to cancel the contract and obtain a full refund.

In case of off plan sales, the draft proposes to make it mandatory for a developer to get all approvals from the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) and to register all saleable units with the Dubai Land Department’s online registration system.

The developer is also obliged to register all contracts with RERA and to provide all information regarding the project’s handover, escrow account, etc.

According to Sultan Bin Mejren, director general of the Dubai Land Department, the new law could be implemented by the end of June.

Following the global economic slowdown of 2008, there are still hundreds of property projects on hold in Dubai. According to the latest figures from 165 projects have been completed since the beginning of 2009, 291 projects are on hold, 291 projects are likely to be completed in due course, and 29 projects have not yet been started.

Nobody knows if this is retrospective yet --if it is it will be VERY interesting !

Nobody knows if this is retrospective yet --if it is it will be VERY interesting !
you can read up an article by hadef & Partners in their web site re. this news- apparently this law is not retrospective

There is nothing to beat the smell of raw sewage in your Italian sports car!

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8467/floodedbasement.jpg

There is nothing to beat the smell of raw sewage in your Italian sports car!



Which Dev is this? I'm assuming it is a select one!

Maybe he is referring to the Torch basement leak back in Feb 16th? :dunno:


Feb 16th 2012

Today morning , i find the Basement 4 full of water around 3 inches of water flow all over the basement
i can't pass to reach my car , i leave it and take a taxi.
I don't know what is happen now , i don't know if they fix this stupid problem , and i don't Know what happen to my car.

but TrueBlue's imageshack post shows B3 not B4.

Following the expose' in the March 20th edition of the Mail On Sunday regarding the dealings of Select Property in the UK, journalist Tony Hetherington is now looking into the dealings of both Select Property and the Select Group in the UAE.
If you have bought a property through either, or both of these companies , and feel that you have been misled, lied to or simply not received what you paid for thenTony would like to hear from you.
In the first instance please write to;
Tony Hetherington,
Financial Mail,
2, Derby Street,
London, W8 5TS

Any news on Tony Hetherington? what about the article on Select?

^^ So Scoob, are you going to complete and take handover now that you do not need to sign the addendums to get handover?

A little bird tells me that SG might be relenting on LTPP Addendums

They probably got enough to sign now and just want to clear up the rest with no hassle - best to contact SG see what they say ?

^^ So Scoob, are you going to complete and take handover now that you do not need to sign the addendums to get handover?

All I know is that certain processes have been initiated in London which are almost unstoppable.

Is Man UTD. a director of Torch Select Ltd.?

All I know is that certain processes have been initiated in London which are almost unstoppable.

Is Man UTD. a director of Torch Select Ltd.?

Wish I was I could have a Richard Mille instead of my old gold Hublot :lol::lol:

There is nothing to beat the smell of raw sewage in your Italian sports car!

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8467/floodedbasement.jpg

good one TB :lol::lol:

Is Man UTD. a director of Torch Select Ltd.?

Yes that is why he is so wealthy with plenty of cash stashed away in the Seychelles :D

Yes that is why he is so wealthy with plenty of cash stashed away in the Seychelles :D

Is Torch Select Ltd. a Seychelles company?

^^ Why don't you ask Select?

Yes that is why he is so wealthy with plenty of cash stashed away in the Seychelles :D

Trying detract attention from yourself.cant wait for the the new law to come into effect. TSL will be having to hand money back right left and centre.

^^ Why don't you ask Select?

There is only one way to ask - sending a courier to a Dubai PO box number - problem is they don't respond.

Like many people we thought that Torch Select Ltd. was effectively owned by Mark Stott & his Dubai Select company back in 2006, but that started to change in 2008 and Mark Stott subsequently in complete denial relating to ownership of Torch Select Ltd. - mind you did say last year it was owned by Select International Developments which is one of his companies - unless he made a mistake / slip of the tongue perhaps?

Crikes - signing a contract with a company which just has a PO box in Dubai - no idea where it is, who it is or what it is - or how to contact it other than by courier to a PO box number in Dubai with no response..it might be registered in timbuktu for all we know!

There is only one way to ask - sending a courier to a Dubai PO box number - problem is they don't respond.

Like many people we thought that Torch Select Ltd. was effectively owned by Mark Stott & his Dubai Select company back in 2006, but that started to change in 2008 and Mark Stott subsequently in complete denial relating to ownership of Torch Select Ltd. - mind you did say last year it was owned by Select International Developments which is one of his companies - unless he made a mistake / slip of the tongue perhaps?

Crikes - signing a contract with a company which just has a PO box in Dubai - no idea where it is, who it is or what it is - or how to contact it other than by courier to a PO box number in Dubai with no response..it might be registered in timbuktu for all we know!

Is this true of all their developments, including bc and botanica

There is only one way to ask - sending a courier to a Dubai PO box number - problem is they don't respond.

Like many people we thought that Torch Select Ltd. was effectively owned by Mark Stott & his Dubai Select company back in 2006, but that started to change in 2008 and Mark Stott subsequently in complete denial relating to ownership of Torch Select Ltd. - mind you did say last year it was owned by Select International Developments which is one of his companies - unless he made a mistake / slip of the tongue perhaps?

Crikes - signing a contract with a company which just has a PO box in Dubai - no idea where it is, who it is or what it is - or how to contact it other than by courier to a PO box number in Dubai with no response..it might be registered in timbuktu for all we know!

I thought Torch Select Ltd. is a child company of Select Group. So can you not contact Select Group by email or phone at their Dubai Marina address and ask?

Trying detract attention from yourself.cant wait for the the new law to come into effect. TSL will be having to hand money back right left and centre.

The new law is not retrospective.

Is this true of all their developments, including bc and botanica

Yes I think so. each development seems to have its own holding company, including Botanica.

The new law is not retrospective.

If unencumbered handover has not taken place before the law comes in, it will not matter wether it is retrospective or not because TSL will be breaking the law at that point. Get your reasonable deals done TSL it's only going to get worse for you

If unencumbered handover has not taken place before the law comes in, it will not matter wether it is retrospective or not because TSL will be breaking the law at that point. Get your reasonable deals done TSL it's only going to get worse for you

i think that's why they are desperate to hand over BC. including paying a large "deposit" to Municipality for the handover certificate...interesting times ahead.

I thought Torch Select Ltd. is a child company of Select Group. So can you not contact Select Group by email or phone at their Dubai Marina address and ask?

I don't know who Select Group is - apart from the fact that they appear as the facilities management company in schedule 10 of the contract. Why would I ask a facilities management company?

What is a child company? something Stott / Aslam gave birth to?

I don't know who Select Group is - apart from the fact that they appear as the facilities management company in schedule 10 of the contract. Why would I ask a facilities management company?

What is a child company? something Stott / Aslam gave birth to?

Either that or a company run by children :)

Either that or a company run by children :)

Seriously, we are trying to understand -what is Select Group Ltd.- ?

If it is the 'parent' company of Torch Select Ltd., does that mean it has more than 50 percent shares? Or is Select Group Ltd, a company of unknown country of origin, an 'agent' of Torch Select Ltd? The www.select-group.ae website says it's a 'freezone' company with no additional information whatsoever as to it's exact origin. Gulf News said that Select Group Ltd. is a U.K. based developer, presumably they had Mark Stott in mind?

This seems to conflict with Select Developments (we were asked to send Oqood registration fees to this company), and Select International Developments, who, as we've been led to believe, 'own' Torch Select Ltd, Select International Developments being a Mark Stott company.

I keep hearing about investors taking Select Group Ltd. to arbitration instead of Torch Select Ltd. How does this work? what do the lawyers say, do they simply accept Select Group Ltd. is a 'parent'?

Scoobudubai,

What exactly are you trying to achieve?

You seem to be completely obsessed with company formation and ownership. You are wasting your energy and probably boring the majority of the readership of this forum to tears, whilst providing a subject of pure amusement to those working for Select.

If you are a Torch invester as i was. Your contract is with Torch Select Ltd. If you are an LPP investor then your unit will be registered with the DLD in the name of Torch Select Ltd. If you can prove breaches of contract then all you have to do is seek redress by using the arbitration process at the DIAC.

Providing you can evidence any breach you will win. If Torch Select Ltd refuse to pay your award then the UAE courts will execute your award against their assets which in your case will be the appartment you jointly own (provide you have paid your 1% OQOOD payment). You will also be awarded costs.

Making handover conditional to signing extra addendums is illegal and Torch Select Ltd know this. Only the weak and desperate have signed. They will live to regret this course of action and only when they understand the full extent of rights they have given up will the reality sink in.

I dont understand why you have not started the process of seeking redress in court already.

[QUOTE=Pro Bono;91311715]Scoobudubai,


Providing you can evidence any breach you will win. If Torch Select Ltd refuse to pay your award then the UAE courts will execute your award against their assets which in your case will be the appartment you jointly own (provide you have paid your 1% OQOOD payment). You will also be awarded costs.


Has anyone actually won yet? Winning would be getting money back from
Select Group and legal fees paid.

Pro Bono, who exactly are you and what are your interests? I recall you posted last year saying you had tremendous success in getting your money back, at the same time micmonro was tried to get people to put money down and pursue matters legally in Dubai against Select Group Ltd.

I note you did not really add anything of any legal worth, instead prefer to ridicule us. If you have anything of any legal worth to identify who Select Group Ltd is and their relation to Torch Select Ltd., I might respect that.

I would be very worried about the Dubai arbitration campaigns - it's now one year on and I don't feel confident that anyone has won. I certainly hope that it's working.

Any decent lawyer would start with the very basics - e.g. with whom did you sign your contract? We know that in relation to "The Torch" a lot of people signed believing Torch Select Ltd. was part of Mark Stott's company based in the U.K.

So I still need an answer to the question, are lawyers quite happily taking people to court vs. Select Group Ltd? if so, they must surely have done due diligence to establish who they (SGL) are, where they are registered, and why they can represent Torch Select Ltd? e.g. is SG a majority shareholder?

If cases are still going on, why? Surely it is quite possible for Torch Select Ltd. to go bankrupt, people lose their money, and the Dubai lawyers are laughing all the way to the bank?

In any case you talk of breach of contract. What about those who see the London High Court as the place to seek remedy, for not just total breach of contract but for fraud as well?

Also there is a difference between those who bought in 2005 and 2006 compared to those who bought later, their interests could be quite different.

See Select Group
Directors
Mark Stott
Giles Beswick
Mark Littlewood
2001 Directors

http://www.selectdubaibeware.com/Select_Group_International_Ltd%20(U.K.)/Item_Select_Group_International_Limited.pdf

[QUOTE=Pro Bono;91311715]Scoobudubai,


Providing you can evidence any breach you will win. If Torch Select Ltd refuse to pay your award then the UAE courts will execute your award against their assets which in your case will be the appartment you jointly own (provide you have paid your 1% OQOOD payment). You will also be awarded costs.


Has anyone actually won yet? Winning would be getting money back from
Select Group and legal fees paid.

I agree, there are so many people in this forum who have bought in their developments in dubai, all facing similar situations of signing addendums and there is no news of anyone winning. Or is there a confidentiality clause- therefore no one will make it public information, even if they have won in the arbitration or have come to an arrangement with select

[QUOTE=profit hunter;91321920]

I agree, there are so many people in this forum who have bought in their developments in dubai, all facing similar situations of signing addendums and there is no news of anyone winning. Or is there a confidentiality clause- therefore no one will make it public information, even if they have won in the arbitration or have come to an arrangement with select

I am sure that if someone (out of the hundreds of people taking on Select Group in Dubai courts) won, they would at least share it with us here.

[QUOTE=kuttika;91333643]

I am sure that if someone (out of the hundreds of people taking on Select Group in Dubai courts) won, they would at least share it with us here.

why would they share with you?

Arbitration procedures are always confidential in Dubai. Only when an award has been ratified by the final court can it be made public. Select generally settle prior to this to keep things quiet.

Scoobudubai, if you need any help with your website my 6 year year old could lend you a hand if you like.

Why are you worried about identifying company structures. It's pointless. You have a legal agreement with Torch Select Ltd.
You jointly own an asset with Torch Select Ltd.
You have a legal dispute with Torch Select Ltd.
So simply take action against Torch Select Ltd.

When you serve a DIAC notice on Torch Select Ltd they have a duty to respond to the DIAC and either acknowlege that they are party to the arbitration procedure or deny that they are party to it.

If they acknowlege that they are party then the process proceeds to a conclusion and any award is made against them for which they are liable. If they liquidate the company as you suggest prior to paying the award then the courts simple use their share of your jointly owned asset (your unit) to satisfy the award.

If you dont want to pay a lawyer then do it yourself. Its a simple form to complete and sent to the DIAC.

Arbitration procedures are always confidential in Dubai. Only when an award has been ratified by the final court can it be made public. Select generally settle prior to this to keep things quiet.

Scoobudubai, if you need any help with your website my 6 year year old could lend you a hand if you like.

Why are you worried about identifying company structures. It's pointless. You have a legal agreement with Torch Select Ltd.
You jointly own an asset with Torch Select Ltd.
You have a legal dispute with Torch Select Ltd.
So simply take action against Torch Select Ltd.

When you serve a DIAC notice on Torch Select Ltd they have a duty to respond to the DIAC and either acknowlege that they are party to the arbitration procedure or deny that they are party to it.

If they acknowlege that they are party then the process proceeds to a conclusion and any award is made against them for which they are liable. If they liquidate the company as you suggest prior to paying the award then the courts simple use their share of your jointly owned asset (your unit) to satisfy the award.

If you dont want to pay a lawyer then do it yourself. Its a simple form to complete and sent to the DIAC.

Interesting.

Last year you wrote:

I have been in a legal dispute with SG since 2009 when they originally claimed Force Majeure on the development despite sacking respected architects Khatib & Alami due to a disagreement on the way Select wanted to cut corners on both design and implementation process in order to bleed profit from the project. After a long drawn out process of Arbitration and then enforcement by the Courts we are now in a position to throw some light on why Select Group have been and are behaving the way they are.


...

Anyway the point of me posting is just to say that we won our case against Select and the court upheld the arbitration ruling. Force Majeure was judged not to have applied at the Torch and Select are liable to pay penalties on the money we paid at the HSBC Middle East base rate until they give us possession and occupation of our unit.

...


As handover proceeds it is essential that all Select Group investors are fully aware of certain facts that significantly change the balance of power in their developments. My experience in dealing with this developer is a messy one. I was an investor in the Torch, however I am now in a much better place and retribution has been served on those who elected to act dishonourably towards me and many other investors. A FULL REFUND plus interest has been delivered.

I notice that you have yet to explain the relationship between Select Group, and TSL. I notice that you never mentioned TSL once last year when you only spoke about SG. Now you only speak of TSL, and you no longer mention SG.

It's unclear to me also, are you claiming you ended up with possession and occupation of your unit, or all your money refunded? It's clear that some investors couldn't wait to part with £15k after you posted the first time.

As you claim your award was enforced by the court, is there any evidence of this, publicly available?

You also claimed that Select Group sacked Khatib and Alami, but people were signing schedule 10 of the SPA, in 2005, 2006, which had SG as a facilities management company.

[QUOTE=profit hunter;91337535]

why would they share with you?

And why not? What's the secret? It would be nice to know that someone
has succeeded in taking on Select through Dubai courts. Then it would encourage others to do so. It seems to me that Select Group and lawyers are laughing all the way to the bank.

[QUOTE=AZ_1st;91339721]

And why not? What's the secret? It would be nice to know that someone
has succeeded in taking on Select through Dubai courts. Then it would encourage others to do so. It seems to me that Select Group and lawyers are laughing all the way to the bank.

perhaps it's a condition of their case/settlement not to declare publicly????

Your an anonymous name on a bulletin board. For all they know you could be a Select employee :lol:

Have you heard of anyone taking Select to court and losing??

[QUOTE=profit hunter;91348765]

perhaps it's a condition of their case/settlement not to declare publicly????

Your an anonymous name on a bulletin board. For all they know you could be a Select employee :lol:

Have you heard of anyone taking Select to court and losing??

Select employee:lol: You've made my day with that comment. I've read
here and on other forums about people wanting to take legal action against Select Group and was just wondering how is everyone getting on.

If I was working for SG, I would already know.:nuts:

Oct 2008: "Select Property, the UK based property developer, has joined forces with the Duchess of York Sarah Ferguson and the Dubai based Select Group to unveil a charitable foundation called "Sarah Selects", set up to help disadvantaged children in the United Arab Emirates."

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/10/prweb1471234.htm

Mark Stott: "...helping children all over the World, which is an issue cause close to my heart"


Telegraph 13th Jan 2012:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/9013458/Sarah-Duchess-of-York-and-Queen-of-Cringe.html

Sarah Ferguson Duchess of York "In 2008 it emerged she had taken a five-figure fee to attend the launch of her own her children's charity, Sarah Selects."


Does anyone know the hotline for Sarah Selects, so that we pan pay some well-deserved donations to the Stott, Aslam, Ferguson charity?

Oct 2008: "Select Property, the UK based property developer, has joined forces with the Duchess of York Sarah Ferguson and the Dubai based Select Group to unveil a charitable foundation called "Sarah Selects", set up to help disadvantaged children in the United Arab Emirates."

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/10/prweb1471234.htm

Mark Stott: "...helping children all over the World, which is an issue cause close to my heart"


Telegraph 13th Jan 2012:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/9013458/Sarah-Duchess-of-York-and-Queen-of-Cringe.html

Sarah Ferguson Duchess of York "In 2008 it emerged she had taken a five-figure fee to attend the launch of her own her children's charity, Sarah Selects."


Does anyone know the hotline for Sarah Selects, so that we pan pay some well-deserved donations to the Stott, Aslam, Ferguson charity?

I never did trust that toe sucker!

Or surely not, does sarah select disadvantaged 'human children'? or more likely children in real need - e.g. children of SG, Torch Select, Point Developments?

Sarah Ferguson is another money grabbing bankrupt. You can bet she charges her charity 90% for using her "good" name.

Here is some factual information on Select Property UK. I have been investigating this company for some time and I am now in a position to commence the informaiton flow as promised. The information is factual and in the public domain.


http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4558/independentreport.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/213/independentreport.jpg/)

In my opinion it is a matter of time before this company folds.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2696/concern.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/262/concern.jpg/)

For those who are unable to fully understand the implications of the factual information above which is factual data held in the public domain allow me to explain how this affects anyone investing in the Pacific project with Select Property UK

Paragraph 1 beginning with “The company incurred”.
This means that for the year to 31st December 2010 Select Property made a loss.

Paragraph 2 beginning with “The company is a party”.
Select Property is able to function as a solvent company as its parent company has agreed to underwrite its losses. On 31st December 2010 the group that underwrites Select Property had a deficit of £42,828. So the Group that was supposed to underwrite losses was also in debt and therefore unable to underwrite losses.

Paragraph 3 beginning with “The directors expect”.
In this paragraph the directors of Select Property explain that for some reason they expect their business to turn around during 2011/2012 which will allow the business to return to profitability. In order to allow the business to continue trading Select Property had to take out loans simply to meet their on-going obligations.

The report also goes on to mention that although certain banking covenants have been put in place by organisations lending money to allow Select Property to continue trading this was breached by Select Property and the bank forced Select Property to refinance the loan into a long term loan.

Paragraph 4 beginning with “In addition the group”.
Select Property are using the carrot of Pacific completing in 2012 to their bankers. Select are telling their bankers that the value placed on Pacific is reduced due to its incomplete state. Select are telling their bankers that when Pacific is complete in 2012 it will be worth so much more than it is now. Select are relying on the project completing this year and collecting final payments just to remain solvent.

..

So what will happen to the existing LPP payment scheme for handed over properties if Select should happen to fold? or does this relate only to Select Property's UK's sales branch?

So what will happen to the existing LPP payment scheme for handed over properties if Select should happen to fold? or does this relate only to Select Property's UK's sales branch?

Also what happens to the LPP for those who have been a) refused handover (sign here saga), but are on the interim register at the land dept

b) refused handover (sign here saga), but are -not- on the interim register at the land dept

Also what happens to the LPP for those who have been a) refused handover (sign here saga), but are on the interim register at the land dept

b) refused handover (sign here saga), but are -not- on the interim register at the land dept

I am in a similar situation with another property in a different country. Everyone refused to take handover because the development was not fully completed, ie. no hotel, no marina, no shops, no golf course etc. just an apartment. The company then went bankrupt and another company bought the asset. The new company claims that they did not buy any of the liabilities for some technical legal reason and now we have an expensive fight on our hands to get the money back which will take 5 years or so if anything. I hope not the same situation here.

Although I think anilm's post above refers to Select Property UK only (who were involved in Pacific) and not related to Torch Select.

very interesting.
If you got some money to invest, there is a new company selling now, they are called
Wolfe & Cole.... would you trust such a nice name........ have a look at website, see any resemblance.............. LOL

I am in a similar situation with another property in a different country. Everyone refused to take handover because the development was not fully completed, ie. no hotel, no marina, no shops, no golf course etc. just an apartment. The company then went bankrupt and another company bought the asset. The new company claims that they did not buy any of the liabilities for some technical legal reason and now we have an expensive fight on our hands to get the money back which will take 5 years or so if anything. I hope not the same situation here.

Although I think anilm's post above refers to Select Property UK only (who were involved in Pacific) and not related to Torch Select.

As far as we are hearing the only way to go is to Select the U.K. High Court. - fraud / total breach of contract.

To anybody who believes they have been defrauded etc - we have very important information to relay which will prove -extremely- useful, but we are holding back for the moment.
It relates to the data protection act.

To anybody who believes they have been defrauded etc - we have very important information to relay which will prove -extremely- useful, but we are holding back for the moment.
It relates to the data protection act.

Defrauded - We have all been defrauded, lied to & generally taken the pi** out of. Can one person say otherwise?

I agree with you we need to stick together as investors.

Would all investors like to meet up and see what we can do re: our position.
Or as im new if you have something setup let me know.
simple_me758@hotmail.co.uk

I have an appointment with a powerful M.P so anyone want to suggest anything just send me a pm or email. Thanks

I agree with you we need to stick together as investors.

Would all investors like to meet up and see what we can do re: our position.
Or as im new if you have something setup let me know.
simple_me758@hotmail.co.uk

I have an appointment with a powerful M.P so anyone want to suggest anything just send me a pm or email. Thanks

Very good idea. What about next weekend, Central London.
A new group "Select Action Group".
People willing to act in some way in the U.K. (& Dubai) We have accumulated so much evidence since last year and legal nous.
Preferably investors from 2005/2006.
Even a small group could work.

Can someone intelligent explain this?

http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/aml/amlsearch/

Also we have been party to a leaked email from Mark Stott to an investor who had been trying to contact him directly for over 5 years. This was the very first time Mark Stott, CEO Select Property wrote, or tried to respond in any way, to this investor. It denies belief. The words were highly insulting and cannot be printed.

Can someone intelligent explain this?

http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/aml/amlsearch/

Also we have been party to a leaked email from Mark Stott to an investor who had been trying to contact him directly for over 5 years. This was the very first time Mark Stott, CEO Select Property wrote, or tried to respond in any way, to this investor. It denies belief. The words were highly insulting and cannot be printed.

^^
whats your point?

Nice work, Pro Bono

So Select UK have an investement in Pacific and their entire existance depends on the success of the development.

Yet, Select UK will tell you they are just brokers and dont know what is going on?

Select UK were just brokers in some developments but were/are partners in Aquatania/West Avenue/Pacific

Can someone intelligent explain this?

http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/aml/amlsearch/

Also we have been party to a leaked email from Mark Stott to an investor who had been trying to contact him directly for over 5 years. This was the very first time Mark Stott, CEO Select Property wrote, or tried to respond in any way, to this investor. It denies belief. The words were highly insulting and cannot be printed.

Can give me a call or text me your number , would like a copy of that email aswell. I think we planning on meeting in manchester.

Can give me a call or text me your number , would like a copy of that email aswell. I think we planning on meeting in manchester.

Suggest you P.M. me. I am a Select victim with a score to settle and live within 50 miles of Manchester.

Not been here for Months but thought I would drop a line of support to those who still fighting those Scumbags. Good Luck :cheers:

Not been here for Months but thought I would drop a line of support to those who still fighting those Scumbags. Good Luck :cheers:

Yep still fighting

New law allows investors to void contracts
The law is aimed at protecting investors from delays or unilateral changes
By Zaher Bitar, Staff ReporterPublished: 00:00 June 1, 2012

Dubai: Real estate investors will be given the right to annul their contracts and get all their money back if developers violate the terms and condition, according to the latest draft of Real Estate Investor Protection Law.
Besides getting their funds back, investors will be able to ask for additional compensation, while the developer can be fined, said the director of the Dubai Land Department, Sultan Butti Bin Mujren told Gulf News.
The law, which has been in the works for some time is expected to be issued soon by the department. It is aimed at protecting investors from delays in the handing over of projects or unilateral changes in the size or other specifications of the properties.
Investors can cancel the contract if the property handover is delayed for more than a year. This applies even if there is provision for completion delays in the contract. They will be eligible for compensation if the handover is delayed for more than a month, but less than a year, according to the draft.
The law will also offer investors recourse in case of defects in the property when it is delivered and undocumented claims and charges from developers, among other provisions.
“It is a clear legislative tool to break the contract and guarantee compensation for investors where the developer attempts to breach the contract,” Bin Mujren said. According to the new law, the Land Department will have an observatory, regulatory, technical and executive role to protect investor’s rights. The law will spell out the rights and responsibilities of the developer and the investor during the project development, the sale of units, the completion of the properties and the handover to the investor.......
Majida Ali Rashid, Director of the Center for Investment Management at the department said: “This law is the first of its kind ......... with the real estate sector in the emirate.”
Muhannad Al Wadiya, managing director of Harbor Real Estate said that the new law should be considered a wake-up call for developers to finish their projects ....... by creating “a positive vibe”.............
The new laws are a necessary part of the ongoing efforts to safeguard investors and better regulate the Dubai property market, which experienced unprecedented boom – and bust – since 2007.
The Land Department has flagged the possibility of introducing a standard template for a sales and purchase agreement, which all developers will be required to use.
Al Wadiya said that this would end the practice of each developer using selling contracts to suit themselves. However, he pointed out that: “Investors must now take the time to read, understand and negotiate the terms of their agreements, instead of blindly signing them, which has been the case.”
link-http://gulfnews.com/business/property/uae/new-law-allows-investors-to-void-contracts-1.1030320


FOR THOSE WHO ARE STILL HOLDING BACK, HANG IN THERE, MORE TO COME SOON...
Lily

Not been here for Months but thought I would drop a line of support to those who still fighting those Scumbags. Good Luck :cheers:


Property investors in Dubai can seek refund and damages
Draft Investor Protection Law released for feedback from public
By Parag Deulgaonkar
Published Thursday, June 21, 2012

Developer’s failure to complete or handover a property within a certain timeframe from date specified in the sales contract, deliberate intention of defrauding an investor or altering the specifications of the unit without obtaining requisite permission will soon allow investors to recover all the amount by them.

The draft law regarding the protection of the real estate investor in Dubai was released on Wednesday (June 20) to get feedback, for the first time, from people involved and concerned with real estate investment in the emirate. The department will be receiving feedback until June 29.

However, it is not known when the law will be actually implemented. But in April, Sultan Bin Mejren Director General of Dubai Land Department, said the law was expected to be implemented by end of June.

Emirates 24l7 broke the news in April that property investors will be eligible for cancellation of their contracts and may seek full refunds if the real estate developer fails to deliver the unit or services within a specific timeframe.

According to Article (36) of the draft law, the following circumstances shall entitle intending investor to terminate the contract for sale and recover all amounts paid by it:

1. If the developer fails to complete the real estate unit or fails to hand over possession to the Intending Investor within [ • ] months after the date specified in the contract for sale as the estimated or agreed date for handover whether or not the contract for sale includes a provision allowing the developer to delay completion and handover in any circumstances;

2. If the real estate unit as built is materially different from the real estate unit’s specification as specified under the contract for Sale including a decrease of 30 per cent or more in the net area.

3. If the developer deliberately and with the intention of defrauding the intending investor fails to comply with the real estate unit’s specification or the specifications of the common areas and facilities under the contract for sale with the result that some are missing at the time of handover.

4. If the developer alters the specifications of the real estate unit without obtaining the required permit from the competent authority to such change in violation of the applicable rules and regulations as a result of which the intending investor is likely to suffer material loss or harm.

In any such case the intending investor shall be entitled to repayment of all amounts paid by it to the developer.

As per the proposed law, an intending investor is any person who enters into a transaction involving the sale of a real property or real estate unit or real estate right to him. This expression includes an intending tenant [under a long term lease] and any person who shall take a mortgage or provide [Islamic] finance in relation to a real property.

If Article (36) shall not apply, the draft law states that under Article (37) the following circumstances shall entitle an intending investor to payment of compensation:

1. Breach of any warranty or undertaking contained in the contract for sale by the seller and the broker.

2. Misrepresentation by the developer or investor or broker.

3. Specifications in violation of the contract for sale after obtaining an expert’s report to that effect.

4. Delay for a period more than one month and less than one year.

The intending investor, the draft law proposes, shall be entitled to recover compensation from whoever of the developer, investor or broker shall have caused the loss. If more than one is responsible every such person shall be [jointly and severally] liable for and bound by the information and data provided to the intending investor prior to the sale, whether such information was provided by means of a letter in writing, announcement or email.

Under Article (15), the proposed law puts the onus on the developer to provide to the buyer will correct information in relation to the common areas within the Jointly Owned Property.

The article states: “The developer to provide to an Intending Investor all accurate and correct information in relation to the common areas within the Jointly Owned Property and the provision of the infrastructure and utilities required to serve it and the stage of completion of each. Moreover, the developer may not without the approval of the department, after announcing a project to public, make any major changes to the infrastructure or the common areas and facilities which have been specified on the plans for the project approved by the department upon sale or in the [declaration of sale] [contract for sale] which would harm the interests of the intending investor.”

N. Naidu, an Indian, who has bought three properties in Dubai, welcomed the move by the department to seek feedback from the public.

“It is good that the land department is seeking feedback from investors. I have gone through the draft… I think it is quite a detailed one, but am certain that the department will incorporate more suggestions from investors.

“But it has to seen how well and effectively is the law, when issued, implemented and whether projects, that have never gone ahead or stalled for years, are included within the ambit of the new law,” he added.

F Harris, a British citizen, who has invested money in Sports City project, hopes the new law will allow him to get a refund from his developer.

“There was not a ray of hope left… I had given up on my investment. Now that the investor protection law is on the verge of being finalized, I hope I can recover my money which is still left in the escrow account,” he stated.

MUST READ:

Dubai investors to get full refund if developers default on handover

http://www.emirates247.com/property/...06-21-1.463886

Sabrtaqwa - good advice. I will contact you on your email. I am new but on this forum but was one of the first purchasers in 2005. The Torch.

Is there anyone out there taking legal action against Select?

(You can IM me if you don't want to say in Public)

Reply to AZ -1st

What is IM? New to this. I am interested in taking legal action in Dubai and UK.
I saw previously that Select Group lost case in Dubai where Force Majeure was not accepted. Anyone know more about this. Was it 'Pro Bono' message?

:ohno:

Reply to AZ -1st

What is IM? New to this. I am interested in taking legal action in Dubai and UK.
I saw previously that Select Group lost case in Dubai where Force Majeure was not accepted. Anyone know more about this. Was it 'Pro Bono' message?

:ohno:

i meant to say PM (private message)

There are plenty of actions taking place against Select Group. These are at various stages.

With regards to force majeure - No developer has ever had a FM claim upheld by the DIAC yet.

Has anyone employed the services of DLD to carry out a survey of your apartment? Looks like the cost is 3000aed.

If anyone has had this and the area of your apartment has been less than quoted by select what happened about it. Pm me please.

Select have now transferred the Torch LPP finance and assigned all their rights, title and interest in LPP payments to Standard Chartered Bank. LPP buyers now need to pay their instalments to a newly setup collection account at Standard Chartered Bank.

Select have now transferred the Torch LPP finance and assigned all their rights, title and interest in LPP payments to Standard Chartered Bank. LPP buyers now need to pay their instalments to a newly setup collection account at Standard Chartered Bank.

Would this mean that its now working more like a traditional mortgage type agreement and perhaps there's no more issues concerning voting rights with the owners association for those on LPP? If so, surely this is a much better scenario now?

Select have now transferred the Torch LPP finance and assigned all their rights, title and interest in LPP payments to Standard Chartered Bank. LPP buyers now need to pay their instalments to a newly setup collection account at Standard Chartered Bank.

Steve,
Would you transfer finance, rights and interests to a bank that has just been 'done' for money laundering (alledgedly)! I would have thought that Select need to try and improve their image not screw it up completely! Another own goal!
Psofos.

I don't think there is such a thing as a moral bank.

My understanding is that select have sold the buyers debt to the bank for a lump sum. Terms to remain as per the SPA. LPP payments and receipts to be managed by Select still.

This is a great deal for Standard Chartered Bank.
We are paying approx. 7% on our LPP while Standard Chartered are offering mortgages for 4-5% to ordinary punters, plus the loan-to-value ratio is very low and the properties are built and occupied.
Who needs customers in Iran with deals like this...:)

Maybe it's better going to a UK bank.
Are there new payment details, or does it still have to go to Barclays? (no notice yet received).

Interesting article;

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/-we-thought-we-d-get-rich-quick--443389.html?page=0


Another lawyer, Nick Clayson of Norton Rose, says that developers may sometimes be obliged to deliver facilities even if there is no mention of them in the contract, so if they have marketed the development as one with ample amenities, but issues need to be considered on a case-by-case basis.
“It is unlikely that an end-user would be able to reject a property where, for example, the pool was not finished or the landscaping not complete,” Clayson says.
He recommends that investors keep tabs on all communication with developers, to support any future legal proceedings. He says a written note of each call should be made, and investors should identify the person they are speaking to and understand their position and ability to make decisions.
“Face-to-face meetings are better and minutes should be taken. If letters are sent these should be sent by courier and copies retained. A well-ordered file of all correspondence, receipts and notes of calls will also make things much easier if lawyers have to be involved.”

In summary, if Select promised something through their marketing that has not been delivered then they could be forced to offer compensation or a full refund if they do not honour their promises. Whether or not it is specifically mentioned in the SPA. They are excused for late delivery in the case of the 5 star hotel in Bay Central but if it does not become a 5 star hotel, everyone will be entitled to sue for compensation.

Morally, True Blue, I agree with you. But has anyone ever won a case and received compensation from a developer in Dubai for a failure to deliver a project to the advertised specification?

^^The Lawyer in the article seems to think it is a sound case that will succeed in court. The only problem seems to be the timescales to get things through the courts at present with them being bogged down with so many cases. Probably Select that are the biggest contributor to the wealth of the legal eagles :lol:

^^The Lawyer in the article seems to think it is a sound case that will succeed in court. The only problem seems to be the timescales to get things through the courts at present with them being bogged down with so many cases. Probably Select that are the biggest contributor to the wealth of the legal eagles :lol:

I remember when I was dealing with the scum at Select, a lot of lawyers assured me they could get a result. When I asked them whether they were confident enough to work on a no-win, no-fee basis, they back-tracked pretty quickly. So I see these local press articles as lawyers touting for business, to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I remember when I was dealing with the scum at Select, a lot of lawyers assured me they could get a result. When I asked them whether they were confident enough to work on a no-win, no-fee basis, they back-tracked pretty quickly. So I see these local press articles as lawyers touting for business, to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I know what you mean. I have just come from a meeting involving an Administrator of a company (LLB qualified), a large company of Property Managers legal team and my own solicitor. I am not law qualified but I knew more about the strenghts and weaknesses of the case than they all did together. When I told them how I would easily defeat them in court, they went white and backed down. Bluff and bluster with most of them, that's why only a few make it to become a judge.

Kevin Brass
Nov 8, 2011

http://www.thenational.ae/deployedfiles/Assets/Richmedia/Image/SaxoPress/AD20111108185140-1-Unhappy%20propert.jpg
The UAE's often complex defamation laws are having a chilling effect on criticism of developers and the property market.

Unhappy buyers and commentators are wary of speaking out in fear of facing a defamation charge, which is a criminal matter in the UAE, according to lawyers. Those who openly criticise developers could face prison time or large fines.

"I think it makes all of us more cautious about how open we are in a public forum," says Ludmila Yamalova, an attorney who often works with property buyers.

http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/industry-insights/property/defamation-laws-keep-the-aggrieved-quiet

Dear Everyone ,

We all know the situation with select and everyone has agreed we have been mis - sold.

I have tried a couple of lawyers in the uk because i think select uk is to blamed first.

If anyone wants to join me send me a private message. If not , could you help me by

giving me advise . And if anyone is willing to be a witness in court let me know.

Many Thanks

For those who had lost money to SP and SG or who feel they had been misled into bad investments - statements are being collected by authorities in the UK. Should you wish to submit a statement then your first point of contact should be the Citizens Advice (CAS/CAB) and they will put you through to trading standards. As I said, statements are being collected.

For those who had lost money to SP and SG or who feel they had been misled into bad investments - statements are being collected by authorities in the UK. Should you wish to submit a statement then your first point of contact should be the Citizens Advice (CAS/CAB) and they will put you through to trading standards. As I said, statements are being collected.

Hi

This is very helpful information. Is there a specific number or office that we should call/email address or just call any CAS/CAB office?

thks

Ianthy

This is the number:

Call the Citizens Advice consumer helpline

To get information or advice, call the Citizens Advice consumer helpline on 08454 04 05 06

The helplines are open Monday to Friday 9.00am to 5.00pm.


They will report your case to the appropiate authorities i.e. trading standards etc...

As I said already, statements are being collected.

missell i.e. misrepresentations are breaches of the Consumer Protection Regulations and should be reported to your local Trading Standards office as a criminal act.

Report Select to Trading Standards either directly or via CAB/CAS.

Pro Bono are you still fighting? I am interested in fighting Rahail Aslam and Mark Stott et al in UK Court and then possibly in UAE Court. We have lost 548,457.82AED. Apartment in The Torch de-registered last year despite offering payment within specified time. Also written to CEO RERA await reply.

Captain Caveman. Have you tried Police in UK under Fraud Act 2006. Dubai Select in Wilmslow had at least the monetary gain of the £2000.00 deposits. I have written proof it was their fee. We were told all part of same company e.g. their developers.

As Pro Bono states (1607 Feb 2012) Corporate fraud if proven is a very serious offence, as is money laundering and tax evasion. There is a high appetite for UK authorities wanting to be seen as successful in capturing such offenders wherever they reside.

People power! We fighting for refund/compensation.

I remember when I was dealing with the scum at Select, a lot of lawyers assured me they could get a result. When I asked them whether they were confident enough to work on a no-win, no-fee basis, they back-tracked pretty quickly. So I see these local press articles as lawyers touting for business, to be taken with a pinch of salt.

You appear to have been on the thread a long time. What is your situation. Did you lose apartment to SG. We have lost our apartment. We had it let and they de-registered it!

We are fighting a campaign in UK, Wilmslow Office. We could arrange a protest People Power! They are threatening to have an injunction put on me We have a legal right to peaceful campaign Under Human Rights Act. I have spoken to Police regarding this matter. But I will tread very carefully and act fully within the law.



Fightback

Far worse - deceiving people that the developer is U.K., planning permission is in place to start the build, supervisory architects K&H, 3 year delay using funds to commence other projects then claiming Force Majeure, the forcing people to sign away their rights with crazy addenda etc etc, preventing handover but investors still having to pay even after 6 years for another 9 years with no handover for fear of losing all money paid to date

Could not have put it better myself. Our fear turned into reality. We had handover but only because they wanted us to pay service charge. Then de-registered apartment which was let! We now determined to fight back.

People Power

missell i.e. misrepresentations are breaches of the Consumer Protection Regulations and should be reported to your local Trading Standards office as a criminal act.

Report Select to Trading Standards either directly or via CAB/CAS.

I contacted Trading Standards UK. They say not come under consumer law but Property Law so they could not act. Is this wrong info?

If criminal act surely we should all contact Police Fraud Squad,

Look at Fraud act 2006, "Fraud by false representation" as defined by Section 2 of the Act as a case where a persosn makes "any representation as to fact or law...express or implied" which they know to be untrue or misleading.

I think many of us agree we were MISLEAD!

Hi

This is very helpful information. Is there a specific number or office that we should call/email address or just call any CAS/CAB office?

thks

Ianthy

Please let me know if they have been helpful. I doubt it as they are not legally trained, they are volunteers and this I feel would be too complex for them to deal with. We need to look at the lawyers who specialise in UAE Law and Fraud Squad in UK possibly under CONSENT AND CONNIVANCE: THE CRIMINAL LIABILITY OF DIRECTORS AND SENIOR OFFICERS.

Rahail Aslam
Mark Stott
Paul Brady et al?

:)Dear Everyone ,

We all know the situation with select and everyone has agreed we have been mis - sold.

I have tried a couple of lawyers in the uk because i think select uk is to blamed first.

If anyone wants to join me send me a private message. If not , could you help me by

giving me advise . And if anyone is willing to be a witness in court let me know.

Many Thanks

Like your fighting spirit. Will send private reply.

how do you know this?

[QUOTE=Pro Bono;91311715]Scoobudubai,


Providing you can evidence any breach you will win. If Torch Select Ltd refuse to pay your award then the UAE courts will execute your award against their assets which in your case will be the appartment you jointly own (provide you have paid your 1% OQOOD payment). You will also be awarded costs.


Has anyone actually won yet? Winning would be getting money back from
Select Group and legal fees paid.

Hi Guys,

Any update from this anyone?

ATTENTION TO ALL SELECT GROUP VICTIMS

You may recall a few of my posts stating that arbitration is the only way forward with these crooks as I can personally testify, as I have won a case and received my funds back from them.

I have been assisting another investor in a case where the DIAC has just awarded a significant sum due to several breaches of contract and within the details of the case are some very serious issues that have now become proven facts in law.

Issues such as;

Force Majeure
Unit Size
Illegal Addendums

Due to the confidential nature of arbitration in the UAE none of these shocking facts can be disclosed unless the arbitration award is not settled by Select Group and the case goes through the ratification and execution process in the Dubai courts.

If Select Group are arrogant enough and stupid enough to try and appeal this award in the courts, (which they probably are) the result and details of the case will become public, VERY PUBLIC.

Due to my professional background in law and media I have already lined up journalists in the UAE and UK who could not believe the dirty tricks (which are unlawful, even in Dubai) that Select Group have tried to pull over on investors, and in so many cases succeeded.

If any investors have not taken handover of any Select Group unit and are currently in arbitration then the details of this case will provide invaluable evidence to boost your case and ensure a successful and profitable result.

If any investors have not yet taken handover of any Select Group unit and are not yet in arbitration then the details of this case will give you the confidence to take these crooks on and win.

For those investors who have signed addendums 1&2 for any Select Group project then you have been financially raped by Select Group. Once you read the details of this case and award that will be widely published following its appearance in a UAE court, you should all invest in a good lawyer in Dubai and seek redress. Addendum 1 stating that you accept your unit and no further liability is due from Select Group will not hold up in court in context to the weight of evidence and contract breaches that have been conducted.

You have all been coerced and forced to sign away your legal rights under duress and threat of loss. Your arbitration rights within the SPA are still valid (there is no legal long stop), and you are therefore still able to seek redress for the losses that you have been forced to accept.

Could not have put it better myself. Our fear turned into reality. We had handover but only because they wanted us to pay service charge. Then de-registered apartment which was let! We now determined to fight back.

People Power

Hi Fightback,

This is outrageous

How can they deregister if you did handover? Are you on SPP or LPP?

Many Thanks

Hi Fightback,

This is outrageous

How can they deregister if you did handover? Are you on SPP or LPP?

Many Thanks

It is outrageous - we will fight them , we will not go away. We were on LPP.
I have been campaigning outside Select Property in Wilmslow which is our right under UK 'Right to peaceful protest' laws. Under Human Rights Act. They threaten me with injunction - I will not be bullied. Cheshire Police said their claims against me are 'rubbish' and I have the right to carry on. I will continue to act fully within the law. I am making banners. Should they decide to take action against me I will take banners to T.V. station in Manchester instead. Watch this space! All I am saying is what has happened to us after signing a contract with Mark Stott. That is not libel.

They tried to say they were just the agents and did not receive any money even the deposit of £2000. I have proof in the form of a letter that we sent deposit cheque to Ms. Garner in November 2005 at Dubai Select in Wilmslow. Once they see proof they admitted they did receive deposit. I will fight that this is Fraud and we were mislead that it was "their development, all part of the same company, you will be dealing with UK company."



People Power!

ATTENTION TO ALL SELECT GROUP VICTIMS

You may recall a few of my posts stating that arbitration is the only way forward with these crooks as I can personally testify, as I have won a case and received my funds back from them.

I have been assisting another investor in a case where the DIAC has just awarded a significant sum due to several breaches of contract and within the details of the case are some very serious issues that have now become proven facts in law.

Issues such as;

Force Majeure
Unit Size



Illegal Addendums

Due to the confidential nature of arbitration in the UAE none of these shocking facts can be disclosed unless the arbitration award is not settled by Select Group and the case goes through the ratification and execution process in the Dubai courts.

If Select Group are arrogant enough and stupid enough to try and appeal this award in the courts, (which they probably are) the result and details of the case will become public, VERY PUBLIC.

Due to my professional background in law and media I have already lined up journalists in the UAE and UK who could not believe the dirty tricks (which are unlawful, even in Dubai) that Select Group have tried to pull over on investors, and in so many cases succeeded.

If any investors have not taken handover of any Select Group unit and are currently in arbitration then the details of this case will provide invaluable evidence to boost your case and ensure a successful and profitable result.

If any investors have not yet taken handover of any Select Group unit and are not yet in arbitration then the details of this case will give you the confidence to take these crooks on and win.

For those investors who have signed addendums 1&2 for any Select Group project then you have been financially raped by Select Group. Once you read the details of this case and award that will be widely published following its appearance in a UAE court, you should all invest in a good lawyer in Dubai and seek redress. Addendum 1 stating that you accept your unit and no further liability is due from Select Group will not hold up in court in context to the weight of evidence and contract breaches that have been conducted.

You have all been coerced and forced to sign away your legal rights under duress and threat of loss. Your arbitration rights within the SPA are still valid (there is no legal long stop), and you are therefore still able to seek redress for the losses that you have been forced to accept.


Well done you!!! Keep up the good work. Cant wait for all the business activities of Rahail Aslam, Mark Stott, Paul Brady et al to go PUBLIC!

Anyone had a reply from Rahail Aslam or Mark Stott. I wrote to both and did not get a reply from Rahail Aslam at all and not a personal reply from Stott.
They are hiding behind their lawyers.

People Power!

For what reasons did they deregister the unit?


I appreciate your on lpp so had you made some late payments?

For what reasons did they deregister the unit?


I appreciate your on lpp so had you made some late payments?

They were still demanding payment whilst de-registering the apartment. We made an 'offer to pay' as per their instruction within the specified time. Cannot say more as ours is complex situation and in legal hands. It was a Friday, Moneycorp was closed until Monday so could not give actual date but we had made all payments through Moneycorp and never once said we would pay and then failed to do so. They took it because they could. We will fight them for as long as it takes. They started proceedings for 1 payment 14,865AED!

They will not tell us the date of de-registration. We believe it was while they still prepared to take more money from us. They in win win situation. Even if peope get their money back plus costs they have still had an interest free loan for 6 years.

Is Rahail Aslam on the current Sunday Times Rich List?

We have made them who they are today.
We the people who invested in their company from 2005 have taken Dubai Select (Select Property) from a 1 property shop to worldwide property business. That is how our loyalty for the so called Force Majeure is repaid. BEWARE!

So are you saying that you made all your payments as per LPP did handover took on a tenant then they decided to de-register you. There must have been a reason surely