View Full Version : Excellent news from the TTC


Mr Man
September 23rd, 2004, 06:20 PM
TTC ponders return-trip pass
Riders could do errands on one fare, within a time limit
Commission also considering rear-door entry on streetcars

KEVIN MCGRAN
TRANSPORTATION REPORTER

The TTC is considering introducing a system-wide time-limited transfer that would allow passengers to pay just one fare to go shopping and return home, all part of a bid to increase ridership.

The current transfer system doesn't allow riders to hop off public transit to do some banking, or drop their kids at day care, and then get back on again without paying a second fare. Commissioners told TTC staff yesterday to report back in February on the impact of a time-limited transfer, which would act as a kind of short-term transit pass, perhaps good for 90 minutes or two hours.

"Time transfers would allow a passenger to get on a streetcar, shop and get home," said Councillor Joe Mihevc, the Toronto Transit Commission's vice-chair. "I think it would show us to be extremely passenger friendly and small-business friendly.

"It would give the small businesses along College, Bloor, Spadina, St. Clair, that little bit of competitive edge that they need right now. It's a real neighbourhood revitalization strategy, as well as a TTC ridership strategy."

The proposal was one of many service-improvement ideas bandied about at the commission's monthly meeting. In addition, the TTC is considering:

Allowing streetcar passengers with proof of payment to enter through the rear doors.

Removing rush-hour restrictions and reducing the price of the $7.75 one-day adult pass.

Introducing a weekly transit pass.

Eliminating paper tickets.

Selling daily and weekly passes through vending machines.

Converting the Sunday family pass — which costs $7.75 for six people, with a maximum of two adults — to a weekend pass.

"I happen to believe we're actually going to make money," Councillor Howard Moscoe, who chairs the TTC, said of the initiatives. "I think if you had a weekend pass for tourists, they'd use the hell out of it.

"In terms of the weekly pass, it's absolutely essential. Working people in the city can no longer pay $100 a month (for a Metropass). I think weekly pass use would skyrocket."

There are problems with many of the initiatives, not the least of which is the possibility of cheaters. Some might sell their transfer, costing the TTC fares. Proof of payment for rear-door entries requires enforcement officers, like on GO trains, adding to operating costs. Weekly passes without photo identification, which is found on a Metropass, could lead to friends "sharing" the pass, but with photo identification could add to bureaucracy. Vending machines placed throughout the city could be costly.

But Mihevc said the TTC primarily should be worried about riders, adding the time-limited transfer would be a boon.

"I think it will only increase ridership," he said. "If I knew I could go to a store, a Home Depot at the end of the line, and come back on the same fare, I might be encouraged to leave my car at home. That's one ride the TTC wouldn't otherwise have had.

"It might actually yield enough additional passengers, encouraging people to make a short trip to the dentist or the doctor, now to take the TTC," he said.

"I think it's an idea whose time has come. It is present in so many jurisdictions around the world, and it's good news for all citizens in the city of Toronto."

Mihevc put forward motions on the time-limited transfer and proof-of-payment proposals as an outgrowth of a study that recommended streetcars on St. Clair Ave. be given their own right-of-way.

Merchants fear losing parking spaces to make room for streetcar-only and left-turn lanes.

Homer J. Simpson
September 23rd, 2004, 07:31 PM
Didn't we just talk about this in an other thread?

It will be great for ridership, I hope that the TTC will approve of it.

Mr Man
September 23rd, 2004, 07:41 PM
^ That's what I thought. It's almost like the TTC is listening.

Homer J. Simpson
September 23rd, 2004, 09:21 PM
^Maybe they are. :lurker:

salvius
September 23rd, 2004, 09:22 PM
Best news I heard in a long time. Now it needs to be implemented.

turboskyline
September 23rd, 2004, 11:37 PM
Doesn't POP already exist on some streetcars like Queen? And what they should really do although costly is get a card access system in place like on the MTA. I hate tokens/tickets...

TRZ
September 24th, 2004, 03:36 AM
Took them long enough, Mississauga Transit has been using this for 2 years already.
And yes, it came it in another thread, that was my dirty work :cheers:
Allowing streetcar passengers with proof of payment to enter through the rear doors.

Removing rush-hour restrictions and reducing the price of the $7.75 one-day adult pass.

Introducing a weekly transit pass.

Eliminating paper tickets.

Selling daily and weekly passes through vending machines.

Converting the Sunday family pass — which costs $7.75 for six people, with a maximum of two adults — to a weekend pass.
As already pointed out, Queen already allows rear-door boarding. Kinda forced to do so due to capacity issues. System wide though? Well, er... way open to abuse.

REMOVE RUSH HOUR RESTRICTIONS! YES! That angle is so retarded and a very poor cash grab that deters more users than profits.

Weekly pass is a long overdue idea, I don't know HOW long Mississauga Transit has been using those.

Eliminating Paper Tickets? While I do support this, I will be ticked if I have to use tokens.

If they can sell passes (day, weekly, etc.) through the vending machines, it might pave the way for the elimination of the farebooths, which would be a huge money saver. It would be a bit of a hefty renovations operation, but since they are planning to do so anyway to allow for smart-card technology (and have been promised (or already given) the money ear-marked for that), they can kill two birds with one stone, if they are smart (probably aren't though).

Mr Man
September 24th, 2004, 03:41 AM
Eliminating Paper Tickets? While I do support this, I will be ticked if I have to use tokens.

METROCARD, MetroCard, METROCARD!!!

Filip
September 24th, 2004, 04:05 AM
Like in New York right?

Mr Man
September 24th, 2004, 04:09 AM
I think the TTC calls it a SmartCard

Are Be
September 24th, 2004, 03:00 PM
Just as long as we don't merge the TTC with other transit systems and have it all integrated -- too European- we don't want that here.

samsonyuen
September 24th, 2004, 11:21 PM
I think integrated transit systems would be a great idea. Instead of competing systems, you'd have a real integration, and more efficient transit for customers. What's wrong with too European anyway?

agrigentum
September 25th, 2004, 03:05 AM
I love NYC's Metrocard, especially how it gets sucked in on the one side of the turnstile and *spat* out on the other...FUN! But seriously now, the one-price return fair is an awesome idea here, I don't know how many times I've wanted to go up to Dufferin Mall but have changed my mind at the thought of paying $4.50 to do a quick Walmart/No Frills shop.

indian
September 25th, 2004, 05:26 AM
I m in for the weekend pass. And they should do something for the tokens. I will confuse it with dimes!!!!

TRZ
September 25th, 2004, 05:26 AM
I love NYC's Metrocard, especially how it gets sucked in on the one side of the turnstile and *spat* out on the other...FUN!

OH, so THAT's Metrocard, we have the same thing in Tokyo under the name PASSNET (or is it PATHNET? In Japanese either translation flies).

I think JR East's Suica system is better though. It's a "No touch" fare card. You hold the card in whatever manner near the sensor and it deducts your fare. Most people smack or tap the card on the sensor as they pass through in a hurry, providing physical contact, but it works without that contact as well. The card is also reloadable, which kicks ass - PASSNET cards don't do that.

The smart-card technology that GO Transit tested on the Richmond Hill line I beleive is similar to Suica, based on what I read about it - I have no use for the Richmond Hill line, so I didn't get to test it out personally.

Filip
September 25th, 2004, 05:29 AM
That would be really convenient, I really hate to look through my bag trying to find those little paper tokens. Anyway I really hope the TTC does that, convenience=more customers.;)

Byron
September 25th, 2004, 05:37 AM
Eliminating Paper Tickets? While I do support this, I will be ticked if I have to use tokens.


Why? Tokens are the next best thing to a Metropass. Paper tickets are useless alot of subway entrances. Tokens also allow you to enter through almost all turnstyles, even the Metropass doesn't give you that option.

IMO get rid of paper tickets, which are not reusable, only recyclable, and at least expand the token system (if a Metrocard/Smartcard system is too expensive) with other colour tokens, for different transit rates (student, senior, etc.).

TRZ
September 25th, 2004, 05:44 AM
Why? Tokens are the next best thing to a Metropass. Paper tickets are useless alot of subway entrances. Tokens also allow you to enter through almost all turnstyles, even the Metropass doesn't give you that option.

IMO get rid of paper tickets, which are not reusable, only recyclable, and at least expand the token system (if a Metrocard/Smartcard system is too expensive) with other colour tokens, for different transit rates (student, senior, etc.).

The tokens suck because they are too small and too similar in appearance to dimes. Worst fare design ever. The fact that it is the most accepted fare type just makes it worse. I never use tokens, I strictly go with paper tickets if I am not on a metropass (which normally I probably would be), because I don't lose or confuse tickets - it's impossible really, except for possibly other systems, but the colour/designs are fairly distinct that I wouldn't call that a problem.

M II A II R II K
September 25th, 2004, 05:55 PM
Maybe another way to increase ridership is to not have to pay again when you transfer from a 905 route to a TTC route, that can get costly, especially for short distances.

Byron
September 25th, 2004, 07:28 PM
The tokens suck because they are too small and too similar in appearance to dimes. Worst fare design ever. The fact that it is the most accepted fare type just makes it worse. I never use tokens, I strictly go with paper tickets if I am not on a metropass (which normally I probably would be), because I don't lose or confuse tickets - it's impossible really, except for possibly other systems, but the colour/designs are fairly distinct that I wouldn't call that a problem.

I actually have the same impression about tickets that you have about tokens. lol I remember when they got wet in the rain they would bend and not go down the ticket receptacle, plus it was so easy to make forgeries (I never did since I actually care to support the TTC, but alot of my friends used fakes).

IMO ticket fraud would be almost impossible if we stopped using paper tickets, and the TTC loses millions each year because of forgeries. You can confuse tokens with dimes, but I don't see that as a huge hassle, since they do differ greatly: they are a different colour, weight, texture and don't have notched edges. I can tell a dime from a token in my hands without looking at it anyday.

TRZ
September 26th, 2004, 04:22 PM
I have no idea how you carry your tickets to allow them to get wet in the rain, the only time I've ever lost tickets to moisture is if they somehow ended up in the wash - rarely happened, but did.

I agree that forgery is a lot more difficult with tokens, but it's weight, size, and colour are all extremely similar to the dime, I have to take a really close look in the pile of small change my wallet/pouch has to find the token.

TRZ
September 26th, 2004, 04:25 PM
Maybe another way to increase ridership is to not have to pay again when you transfer from a 905 route to a TTC route, that can get costly, especially for short distances.
Financially unfeasable.

However, they should have a fare-integration system similar to that which GO Transit uses with suburban transit routes. Ironcially, the TTC is almost the only provider that GO Transit does not have a deal with, because the TTC is too financially strapped to allow for such programs (they used to have one, but the savings were negligible in the now-discontinued twin pass). This is obviously why they don't do it with other providers as well. However, I think it does indeed hold ridership increase potential, and would be a worthwhile investment, but only for Mississauga Transit, and maybe YRT.

doady
September 28th, 2004, 05:31 AM
I don't understand this. Time-limited transfers and weekly passes... I thought all transit systems had these. Exactly how do TTC transfers work now if they are not time limited?

TRZ
September 28th, 2004, 09:59 AM
I don't understand this. Time-limited transfers and weekly passes... I thought all transit systems had these. Exactly how do TTC transfers work now if they are not time limited?
They are time-limited, but with a long list of restrictions of use.

If you have purely time-limited transfers, it is the unrestricted usage that we are talking about and is the HUGE plus. Transfers are generally useless if you are not transfering from one bus or streetcar to another, with certain subway stations (20% of the system?) being exceptions.

West@East_Coast
December 6th, 2005, 01:49 AM
WOW

ssiguy2
December 6th, 2005, 03:33 AM
Its about time.
Translink has had it for ever, atleast since I moved here in '89.
If you just need a quick trip somewhere it saves you a small fortune.

pottebaum
December 6th, 2005, 03:50 AM
So..did this happen for you guys? I notice this thread's over a year old.