NASCAR has its sights set to build a new track in the Snohomish County area, or possibly Kitsap or Thurston. :cheers:

Heres a small article:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/motorsports/183130_nascar22.html

And then what?

^then all the people living in the trailer parks will come out and party ;)

lol....I guess it's good for the economy in general. :dunno:

Figures they would build it in Yoakalsville. You can take the person out of Snohomish County, but you can't take Snohomish County out of the guy.

I know some guys that are really into Nascar, but they are all from the Southern states, like Virginia and North Carolina.

YEE HAW!

I know alot of people as well who love nascar. This could be good for the state, and yet maybe not.

Please Don't Make It So!!!!!!!!!! Why??????

Say it isn't so. The area seems to be too populated. Not a good thing for Snohomish County. Maybe it should be somewhere in Pierce County, Buckley or Spanaway. Perferct place for NASCAR.

What a waste of land in a region that's trying to reduce sprawl.

I don't buy the economic arguments either. Typically these discussions fail to mention that a lot of the spending is by locals who are simply spending money on this instead of other things. And they don't mention things like the number of locals who leave town during events (spending their money elsewhere) or the non-nascar tourists who decide not to come because there aren't enough hotel rooms.

Meanwhile there's talk of using this non-existent "windfall" of revenues to con the public into paying for road improvements, etc.

The noise issue is another killer. You can hear this shit for miles. That alone ought to be enough to kill it. Ought to.

I hope I get we chance to vote on this. In any case, now's the time to make your voice heard.

:fart:

I believe it is official now, that a location has been chosen: Marysville

I believe it is official now, that a location has been chosen: Marysville

Nascar sucks.

Marysville is the perfect spot for it though.

You can take the person out of Snohomish County, but you can't take Snohomish County out of the guy.

:hahaha:

No, it's not official. It requires a move in the urban growth boundary (so I hear), and public subsidy. Both require government action. Both are good opportunities to kill it at this location.

Maybe it should be somewhere in Pierce County, Buckley or Spanaway. Perferct place for NASCAR.

Too populated. Arlington has less people than Spanaway. Ground Mound in between Seattle & Portland along I-5 would have been the best spot IMO (already has sewer system, land, etc). Lewis County would be a good spot for it too.

I love how people love to dictate what other people SHOULD have to do for fun... Whatever happened to "live and let live" Oh I forgot this isn't america anymore, you can't make everyone happy because we all think everyone should live like everyone else....ugh.

Latest news:

Tribe aims for NASCAR in southwest Washington (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/214945_nascar08.html)

With a plan to build what would be the state's largest casino already in the works, the Cowlitz Indian Tribe is now setting its sights on bringing a NASCAR speedway to southwest Washington.

"This is all still very preliminary," tribal spokesman Dave Barnett said. "But we hope that one day, we can make a proposal that makes sense to the tribe, the state and to NASCAR."

Last week, Barnett -- a member of the tribe's development team now trying to build a $400 million casino resort about 25 miles north of Portland -- met with a representative of International Speedway Corp. to discuss locating a racetrack in southwest Washington.

Tribal officials and the auto speedway developers will meet again this week to discuss financing options. Details of exactly where the proposed track would be and how much it would cost have yet to be disclosed.

For months, ISC -- a developer and owner of auto tracks across the nation -- has been exploring potential sites in Washington and Oregon that could host major National Association of Stock Car Racing events.

A plan to build such a track -- which can typically accommodate 75,000 fans -- in Snohomish County recently fell through when a public financing deal couldn't be reached. Officials for ISC -- now considering several other Northwest sites -- could not be reached for comment yesterday.

(click here (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/214945_nascar08.html) for the rest of the article)



Here is the prospective location (to the left side of pic near I-5):

http://www.aerolistphoto.com/images/wa/ridgefield/2004/WARIh040429D_008.jpg

I hope they find the right location for NASCAR just in between Portland and Seattle for fans to come watch the race! :D. By the way, nice ariel of the area with 3 volcanos at the same time! Mt. St. Helens, Mt. Rainier and Mt. Adams, aka 3 sister volcanoes. When u look at it on the map, you can see it looks like a triangle. ;)

^I belive Cowlitz county is bidding for it now.

Sheesh is this stupid thing back??? It's like nail fungus! It never dies!

Get with the program, guys. NASCAR is the fastest growing sport in America. Its fanbase extends to every region of North America, and beyond. One of its fairhaired boys, Kasy Kahne, is from your own backyard.

Races are staged in California (Sonoma, no less) and Las Vegas. Successful events have been staged in Japan and in Mexico, and even Great Britain and Australia have their own versions of NASCAR.

True, true, it ain't fancy-schmancy like them frenchy-fou-fou F1 races. But, unlike F1, NASCAR allows passing ! ;)

Figures they would build it in Yoakalsville. You can take the person out of Snohomish County, but you can't take Snohomish County out of the guy.

I know some guys that are really into Nascar, but they are all from the Southern states, like Virginia and North Carolina.

YEE HAW!

My guess is that you pride yourself on being an "open-minded" person.

My guess is that you have neglected to investigate the automotive engineering that is the basis NASCAR.

My guess is that you look down upon anything even remotely related to "The South".

My guess is that you're relegated to your hospital room and are occasionally allowed to spew incoherent nonsequiturs.

If it has an engine, it's not a sport.

If I want to watch the skills of mechanics, I'll go to an auto shop.

NASCAR would be a giant waste of land in a region that doesn't have any to spare. The noise can be heard from miles away, which alone ought to be enough to kill it. It's all based on driving, which we have too much of already.

Why in the hell would I care how popular it is?

I don't hate the South. I think many of its residents ought to lose some weight, and I don't like its trademark forms of entertainment. But I realize, from having been there, that reality is better than the poor PR you get.

Just let them try to subsidize a track in Washington with tax dollars...

If it has an engine, it's not a sport.

If I want to watch the skills of mechanics, I'll go to an auto shop.

NASCAR would be a giant waste of land in a region that doesn't have any to spare. The noise can be heard from miles away, which alone ought to be enough to kill it. It's all based on driving, which we have too much of already.

Why in the hell would I care how popular it is?

I don't hate the South. I think many of its residents ought to lose some weight, and I don't like its trademark forms of entertainment. But I realize, from having been there, that reality is better than the poor PR you get.

Just let them try to subsidize a track in Washington with tax dollars...

You write: "If it has an engine, it's not a sport." So, if humans participating in athletics lack muscular strength (i.e. paraplegics) and use mechanical equipment to compete in the Special Olympics (for example) their efforts are not 'sports'?

"I don't hate the South. I think many of its residents ought to lose some weight, and I don't like its trademark forms of entertainment."

Your's is the quintessential response of someone gravely in need of an education.

First of all, "Southerners", outside Texas' major cities - arguably not a part of "The South" - are not among the nation's top 10 "fattest" cities. Take a peek at the rankings and notice the number of cities in the Midwest...

Next, "I don't like its trademark forms of entertainment." You don't like jazz, the Blues, Bluegrass...I suspect that you are referring to "country" music and confusing the contribution of the South on the evolution of music.

^I belive Cowlitz county is bidding for it now.

It's the Cowlitz tribe which is petitioning the feds for tribal land in Clark County near La Center that is looking into a potential partnership with NASCAR. In other words if this scenario happened, the track would be in northern Clark County.

NASCAR would be a giant waste of land in a region that doesn't have any to spare.

They aren't proposing a track in downtown Seattle. There is plenty of land availible in this region that would be suitable for NASCAR with some minor infrastructure upgrades.

I'm sorry, but having lived all my life in the south, I will gladly admit that I hated it. Heh, I had a roomate who was a nascar fanatic and I had to watch numerous races. Granted, this still gives me no right to look down on people from the south, seeing as I am one of them! So, if Nascar helps the area bring it on. But, I do understand how it could be a turnoff seeing as I left the south to avoid certain things, and if nascar was in my backyard I would not be super happy about it. Sounds like this is more a matter of personal taste.

Next, "I don't like its trademark forms of entertainment." You don't like jazz, the Blues...
But those are black though. They're not associated with rednecks. ;)

There is certainly plenty of land outside of the Seattle Metropolitan area, but I don't know about everyone else, but my idea of fun is not sitting there for however long just to watch cars going around in circles, for the purpose of possibly seeing a crash...there is plenty of that on I-5.

^ Hundreds of thousands of people pile along Lake Washington each August to watch a dozen or so fast boats run around in circles intermittently for 30 or so minutes in 6 or 7 hour period. I think NASCAR would be a smashing success here. 2004 rookie of the year Kasey Kahne is from Enumclaw & Vancouver, WA's Greg Biffle has won a race already in the young '05 season.

^not me and most of Bellevue and Seattle isn't one of them either. Point exactly, if they want that noisy thing, keep away from the Metro area :D

Keep in mind that the hydroplane races are only once a year, unlike NASCAR

Why don't you take the Indy, since it's been put on hiatus in Vancouver until at least after the Olympics? Can you sacrifice a few streets and endure some noise for a few days each summer?

^I don't get it...am I missing something...

^I don't get it...am I missing something...
Hey db. ;)

Every summer, for a long time now, the Indy racing circuit has been making a stop in Vancouver on its annual tour. Select streets around False Creek were closed to the public for a few days to provide the track for the event.

Starting this year, though, the Indy race in Vancouver has been cancelled, since the land is now being put to other use in preparation for the 2010 Olympics. I was thinking if Seattle could make the required sacrifice and set aside a few streets and other resources to accomodate it, it could take over as the Indy tour's stop in this region, and bring in a bit of money to your economy.

^I get it now. :D You forgot to mention several very important peaces of information for me to understand what you were talking about :)

It should also be a little more exciting to watch than a bunch of souped up stock cars running around in circles, wouldn't you say? Not to mention not having the 'redneck' stigma attached to it. ;)

If they tried to shut Seattle streets for a fucking car race, I'd go ballistic. Moot point though -- it wouldn't even be considered by the City of Seattle, let alone approved. Far too disruptive, not to mention costly. And even if it was "approved" we'd stop it in the courts. One positive aspect of the US' overly-litigous culture is that it's much easier to get in the way of things like that, compared to Vancouver. As for our economy, that sort of argument is typically misrepresented by boosters and media who don't know the first thing about economics.

... Yes, we have land in the Puget Sound area. But we don't have extra land. We have growth management because we want to save farms and forests, and we want to use land judiciously. A car racing track would be directly counter to our typical priorities, directly or indirectly. (I know, sounder, you right wingers don't agree with this.)

... Southerners might not be the fattest group in the US, but they're pretty damn fat on average. Even the US average is pretty gross. Fly in from another country and it's like landing in a bovine convention. Anyway, Seattle is fitter than probably every southern city. (PS, personally I'm 40% of the way to losing 25 pounds...)

... Wheelchair races are fundamentally unfair and non-sportlike if wheelchair design or motors play too big a role. On the other hand, if they're pushing by hand, winning is still based on athleticism, not mechanics. Car racers have to be fit, but fitness isn't the deciding factor. A typing contest is more of a sport than a car race.

... I was referring to trademark "while people" entertainment. Note that I didn't say "most popular". By "trademark" I mean something similar to "stereotypical."

... Our hydroplane races are becoming, per capita, less popular every year, reportedly. Even so, attending is more about being on/near the water, and possibly watching the airshow. I doubt that many Seattle people follow the hydroplane circuit.

... Yes, we have land in the Puget Sound area. But we don't have extra land.

We have plenty of land. A NASCAR track would take up a microscopic drop in the bucket of undeveleloped land.

We have growth management because we want to save farms and forests, and we want to use land judiciously.

We have GMA because certain religious fundamentalists hate growth. This isn't about "save farms and forests" because they are also the same religious kooks fighting to kill farming & logging.

A car racing track would be directly counter to our typical priorities, directly or indirectly.

Hogwash. This ain't Hong Kong. We are flowing in undeveloped land suitable for track.

Agreed mhays. Seattle will never allow this to happen. And if it tried, the NIMBY's would sue until the next millenium.

If they want in down in the 'couves that's fine. It would fit in well with that sprawlsville.

Yes, Sounder, it's my ideology.

If I'm a kook, you're a rapist, or complicit. At least I cross the aisle on some issues. You come across as pure Rush Limbaugh.

Yes, I'm against anything that destroys forests. We've already lost most of our natural forest land. I want to save the rest of our natural forests, and also let our previously-cut semi-fake forests revert to a more natural state. We could easily get by on half or 1/3 the wood.

I'm in favor of keeping farmland. Preferably without killer chemicals near streams, though I'm willing to phase those out over time.

Forests are a renewable resources. If you like trees, buy some forest property & turn it over to a conservation trust. We have gobs of forests already under protection & many more that are not but are just sitting there undisturbed. Trees grow like weeds here & there are more of them now than 100 years ago.

The funny but sad truth about UGB's is they hurt many of what the lefty religious nuts worship & helps what they loathe -

- UGBs cause more sprawl & worse sprawl by forcing people further into the periphery away from jobs forcing more traffic & more burning of oil, & more forests cut down

- UGBs artificially raise housing prices thus screws the poor.

- UGBs favor large corporate property owners with access to political power. The little guy gets hosed while the rich make out like bandits.

We really need seperation of church & state so we can end this leftist religious oppression.

But those are black though. They're not associated with rednecks. ;)

The point was that he didn't like the music of the South not to segregate white from black. In any case, your point shows how little you know about the blues, and jazz... ;)

Forests are a renewable resources. If you like trees, buy some forest property & turn it over to a conservation trust. We have gobs of forests already under protection & many more that are not but are just sitting there undisturbed. Trees grow like weeds here & there are more of them now than 100 years ago.

The funny but sad truth about UGB's is they hurt many of what the lefty religious nuts worship & helps what they loathe -

- UGBs cause more sprawl & worse sprawl by forcing people further into the periphery away from jobs forcing more traffic & more burning of oil, & more forests cut down

- UGBs artificially raise housing prices thus screws the poor.

- UGBs favor large corporate property owners with access to political power. The little guy gets hosed while the rich make out like bandits.

We really need seperation of church & state so we can end this leftist religious oppression.

^how are you going to prove this other than saying that YOU and joe schmo left Seattle because of UGB's or left King County for that matter. You're statements severly lack evidence of this.

Also, have you heard of Asthma in kids? There is a reason why we have trees....

^how are you going to prove this other than saying that YOU and joe schmo left Seattle because of UGB's or left King County for that matter. You're statements severly lack evidence of this.

Why in the world are the communities of Clearwood & Carylon Beach in Thurston County booming? Investigate that & you will completely understand the destruction UGBs are doing in the name of religious ideology. Clearwood is located in the boot of Thurston County in the Bald Hills, as far as you can be in the county away from Olympia. Carylon Beach is located in a mudslide area on the tip of Hunter Point in the far NW corner of the county. Because a massive quanitity of lots were plotted prior to UGBs in those two communities, they are booming. This growth would be around Olympia & Lacey if it weren't for UGBs. Instead more growth is forced out into the distant periphery, farther away from jobs, transit, police/sheriff, & sewage treatmant plants. Carylon Beach is the #1 polluter in the SW corner of Puget Sound & UGBs are forcing more growth & use of their shitty sewage system that dumps right into the sound off Hope Island. It's also a mudslide area but thanks to UGBs, we are building out there instead of outside of the city.

UGBs are destructive & evil & do not solve the real true causes of sprawl.

^I don't know you should know the answer to that wouldn't you? All I'm saying is that house prices are not going up because people are "leaving". sorry sounder your statements are very contridictory to reality.

All I'm saying is that house prices are not going up because people are "leaving". sorry sounder your statements are very contridictory to reality.

What are you talking about? Housing prices are artificially high due to artificial lack of supply thanks to UGBs. I have no clue what you are talking about with people "leaving."

If they tried to shut Seattle streets for a fucking car race, I'd go ballistic. Moot point though -- it wouldn't even be considered by the City of Seattle, let alone approved. Far too disruptive, not to mention costly. And even if it was "approved" we'd stop it in the courts. One positive aspect of the US' overly-litigous culture is that it's much easier to get in the way of things like that, compared to Vancouver. As for our economy, that sort of argument is typically misrepresented by boosters and media who don't know the first thing about economics.
Really? No money will be brought in by visitors from outside, not to mention putting your city in the international spotlight for a day and advertizing it to potential tourists, while at the same time giving racing enthusiasts in town their bit of entertainment? Am I to take it Seattle's infrastructure is too unsuited to stage any large event of this kind?

It's probably too close to Portland to be considered a worthwhile stop by Champ Car officials anyways.

Too populated. Arlington has less people than Spanaway. Ground Mound in between Seattle & Portland along I-5 would have been the best spot IMO (already has sewer system, land, etc). Lewis County would be a good spot for it too.

Yeah, actually, it would. I think that just north of Centralia, next to the Freeway. There isn't too many people there. I don't even live in Western Washington, so I really could care less.

Thurston County and other exurbs are growing quickly, yes. A major reason is that their growth management plans are too lax. I say fix those. And limit sewer permits to the extent that the systems can handle.

People worried about affordability have plenty of housing options -- at least working people do. They can live in apartments, small ones if necessary. If they're really poor, they can double up. They can not have cars, and use that money for housing instead. It's not society's job to make sure they can have houses with yards. We should, however, make sure it's possible for the market to build low-income housing, through means such as not requiring parking, allowing very small bedrooms (nooks?), allowing shared kitchens, etc. (ps, I'm for subsidies at the lowest end)

I don't know how many trees we had 100 years ago, but 200 years ago we have way more. And truly-natural forests are nearly gone entirely. (I'm not trying to convince you, sounder. I'm just making sure your Rush Limbaugh approach to forestry doesn't go unchallenged.)

Really? No money will be brought in by visitors from outside, not to mention putting your city in the international spotlight for a day and advertizing it to potential tourists, while at the same time giving racing enthusiasts in town their bit of entertainment? Am I to take it Seattle's infrastructure is too unsuited to stage any large event of this kind?

It's probably too close to Portland to be considered a worthwhile stop by Champ Car officials anyways.

Yes.

1. During the summer, our hotels fill up pretty well already. Even if we got 100% occupancy for a few days instead of 90%, it's not a big difference. Whatever these hotels guests spend, it's not much different that what a regular week's hotel guests spend.

2. During big events like that, it's SOP for locals to leave town. Big events actually cause locals to spend more money elsewhere instead of here.

3. Some visitors would stay in Winnebagos, or with friends. This would be "new" money, but it would bring less per visitor. And you certainly wouldn't want to explain to locals that the roads would be full of Winnebagos.

4. Much of the spending at events like this is at corporate booths - hot dogs, shirts, etc. Locals often don't get much of that, except for some temp jobs at rediculously-low wages, and a little sales tax.

5. Due to police overtime, street work, and other public costs (always far more than whatever organizers pay), the City and other local governments would likely take a net loss once you factor in 1-4.

6. Regardless of where you put the event, it's going to disrupt someone severely. Downtown restaurants would probably report slow sales, as would Downtown stores -- first because they usually do during major events (mostly because the locals have been scared off), and second because of the real disruptions caused by street closures.

7. Publicity is good, but I'd rather my city wasn't associated with car racing. Seattle has a pretty-successful brand, and car racing doesn't match it. Speaking as a marketing guy, not all advertising is helpful advertising.

8. It's tough to imagine a location. The central waterfront along Elliott Bay is out of the question -- the ferry terminal, the Bell Street Pier cruise terminal, etc., are far too important. Anywhere in the middle of Downtown is also impossible, for obvious reasons. Industrial district -- not a chance. Belltown -- hell, hell no. South Lake Union -- not a chance. We simply don't have neighborhoods without businesses and/or residents.

Off-street would be possible, like maybe at the underused Interbay terminal site. But apparently that's not what the racing people do.

Good for Washington

Thurston County and other exurbs are growing quickly, yes. A major reason is that their growth management plans are too lax.

Care to expand on this? I don't think they are too lax at all. In fact they are too strict & are forcing growth into rural communities and areas pre-plotted prior to UGBs.

People worried about affordability have plenty of housing options -- at least working people do. They can live in apartments, small ones if necessary.

Great, make landlords rich & screw the poor by preventing them from building wealth & enjoying the tax benefits & appreciation of homeownership all in the name of petty religious ideology.

Instead of making the rich richer & totally screwing the poor & the environment, people worried about sprawl & saving forests should be proactive in making the city a residential growth spot & should buy their own rural land to put into conservation trust. This screwing the poor & enriching mega corporations & rich folks is respresive & regressive.


I don't know how many trees we had 100 years ago, but 200 years ago we have way more. And truly-natural forests are nearly gone entirely. (I'm not trying to convince you, sounder. I'm just making sure your Rush Limbaugh approach to forestry doesn't go unchallenged.)

So you are one of those lesser Seattle religious wackos that doesn't believe in evolution, decay, regeneration, & nature that long to have everyone leave so we can turn this state into a giant wildlife preserve? Trees grow like weeds here. Bulldoze a forest & it grows back. We have more than enough forests under conservation. Robbing private property owners & screwing the poor to save even more forests is totally regressive & excessive. Our forestry management practices in this state are first rate. I bet I spent more time in private forest land then you have. I have participated in stream rehibilitation on private timber lands. Our forests our fine. Some of your "truly-natural" forests were nothing a few hundreds of years ago whether due to forest fire or volcano. Nature regenerates herself. Check out an abandoned human community from just 100 years ago & see how much mother nature has reclaimed, reused, & recycled. Trees die, our earth isn't static, & when we leave a place, mother nature will slowly wipe away our foot prints.

Yeah, actually, it would. I think that just north of Centralia, next to the Freeway. There isn't too many people there. I don't even live in Western Washington, so I really could care less.

This location makes too much sense.

Here is part of the area (pic below) where I-5 & US-12 intersect in Grand Mound. If a freeway bypass is ever built around Olympia to connect to the 167/405 corridor, this is the point where it would likely join I-5. Plenty of land, great highway access (& potential), already near an exisiting speedway (less potential bitching perhaps), halfway between Seattle & Portland, close to Olympia & Centralia (existing nearby food & lodging), & a has sewage system.

http://www.aerolistphoto.com/images/wa/rochester_grand_mound/2004/WARGh040722D_001.jpg

http://mq-mapgend.websys.aol.com/mqmapgend?MQMapGenRequest=FDR2dmwjDE%3byt29%26FDJnci4Jkqj%2cMMCJ%3aHOEvq%3bwza5r2%3a%29uaxuu72%26%40%24%3a%26%40%24s%26wzx%26a8x%26ESEKGF%3dTPWIK%2cr00ryn%26%3d2ll622u%40%24%3a%26%40%24%3a%26a2%3a

8. It's tough to imagine a location. The central waterfront along Elliott Bay is out of the question -- the ferry terminal, the Bell Street Pier cruise terminal, etc., are far too important. Anywhere in the middle of Downtown is also impossible, for obvious reasons. Industrial district -- not a chance. Belltown -- hell, hell no. South Lake Union -- not a chance. We simply don't have neighborhoods without businesses and/or residents.

Off-street would be possible, like maybe at the underused Interbay terminal site. But apparently that's not what the racing people do.
How about any of the Boeing sites? Can they free enough space for a week or so to stage the event? Would their runways make suitable racing tracks? I'm sure their neighbours are used to the noise.

Nutterbug -

- CART (or whatever they call it now) is a dying sport in America

- folks in Western Washington have had plenty of chances to catch the races at Portland & Vancouver. It wasn't like tickets were that difficult to obtain.

- mhays is right, it wouldn't fly in Seattle. Build a track in the periphery or use Evergreen Speedway & a race is possible but I doubt it would be anything close to a smashing success.

- NASCAR is the way to go. It is the more popular circuit by far, our area is producing top NASCAR talent, & this is the largest part of the country totally void of it.

How about any of the Boeing sites? Can they free enough space for a week or so to stage the event? Would their runways make suitable racing tracks? I'm sure their neighbours are used to the noise.

The Renton Boeing plant would make a good one since most of it is going to be torn down, or is in the process of being torn down. The problem is that FLAT land around here is at such a premium, and some it this site is on Lake Washington that its just to valuable to be sited for something like NASCAR.

The Renton Boeing plant would make a good one since most of it is going to be torn down, or is in the process of being torn down. The problem is that FLAT land around here is at such a premium, and some it this site is on Lake Washington that its just to valuable to be sited for something like NASCAR.

yeppers, Fry's Electronics is on Boeing's property which is 21 acres, the parcel is about $11.1 million. The Fry's electronics store itself is $5 million, so that totals about $16 million for the whole property. I read somewhere that there will be redevelopment around Boeing's empty parking spaces and lots. New retail stores and apartments/condos, etc etc.

Any fantasy about a track in King County or in urban Pierce or Snohomish County is, well a fantasy. The Renton Boeing site is far too valuble land to waste for a race track. Race tracks & proving grounds belong in the periphery.

Did you know PACCAR has a proving ground in Skagit County?

http://www.kenworth.com/newspics/ptcaerial.jpg

It is partially visible in the clump of trees (go up from the first 'r' in "photographers" & left from the 2nd 'r'):

http://www.aerolistphoto.com/images/wa/burlington/2004/WABUh040403D_029.jpg

^^there is also some track in Mason County near Shelton, WA. It's used for training Washington State Patrols cops on the site, it's forested with winding and straight tracks going thru.

Ok, sounder, you can disagree with science and the will of the voters. Go listen to more populist talk radio.

Ok, sounder, you can disagree with science and the will of the voters.

I don't think I am the one disagreeing with science. There is a difference between sound science & religious b.s. UGBs are based on religious b.s.

We need seperation of church & state to protect us from being forced under the tyranny of the religion of the majority. UGBs will die sooner or later via rightfully being ruled unconstitutional or by popular mandate.

Now go back to being brainwashed by leftist religious kooks & fascist commies.

yeppers, Fry's Electronics is on Boeing's property which is 21 acres, the parcel is about $11.1 million. The Fry's electronics store itself is $5 million, so that totals about $16 million for the whole property. I read somewhere that there will be redevelopment around Boeing's empty parking spaces and lots. New retail stores and apartments/condos, etc etc.

Yep. I drive by it 4 days a week on the way to work. Paul Allen's property dev. company is looking to spend big $$ down that way if they can get some of that lake front property.

The thing is though, even though Boeing is going away the Renton Airport isn't. I know that I wouldn't spend a ton of $$ to live near an airport. Even if it is just for small planes.

Wow, Sounder is crazy.

Fry's certainly has enough parking! Even though some of it is probably Boeing's, they still have a ton.

Yep. I drive by it 4 days a week on the way to work. Paul Allen's property dev. company is looking to spend big $$ down that way if they can get some of that lake front property.

The thing is though, even though Boeing is going away the Renton Airport isn't. I know that I wouldn't spend a ton of $$ to live near an airport. Even if it is just for small planes.

Yea, since it's not far from the airport, I wonder if the condo/apt residents get annoyed by the loud planes taking off. :P I think there will be mostly retail stores. I think apt and condo units will be as far away from the airport.

I think the track is going to be built in Oregon along Interstate 205 and Interstate 84...the Troutdale area. There is a closed aluminium plant on the site. Reps from the governor, state, county, cities and port have met.

NASCAR likes the fact that there are 2 Interstates very close to the site as well as I-5 just a couple miles away. No one lives close to the site, except on the Washington site of the Columbia and across I-84 in Oregon so the noise generated would not be that much of a concern.

Also, Portland is finally waking up to the fact that locating facilities on the Washington side of the Columbia benefit mainly Washington and their sales tax structure.

Plus, the CART race, currently ran in North Portland, could possibly use the site for their race.

:cheers:

Port Orchard site reportedly chosen for NASCAR racetrack (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&slug=RAC%20NASCAR%20Track)

PORT ORCHARD, Wash. -- International Speedway Corp., thwarted last year in a plan to build a NASCAR racetrack about 30 miles north of Seattle, reportedly is set to build one across Puget Sound.

Officials of the auto racing development and promotion company based in Daytona Beach, Fla., will announce plans Thursday to build an 80,000-seat track on 950 acres near Washington 3 south of Bremerton National Airport along the Kitsap-Mason county line, the Kitsap Sun reported.

ISC released some details of the plan to the newspaper Wednesday but not the financing plan or naming rights.

If the Legislature grants approval and county permits are issued, construction could begin in 2007 or 2008 on a track of 7-8 of a mile to 1.2 miles surrounded by parking and camping areas with a tiered grandstand offering views of Mount Rainier in clear weather, the Sun reported.

Last September company officials announced the selection of a site by Interstate 5 near Marysville for a 75,000-seat NASCAR track, promising to spend $50 million of the $250 million cost and cover any overruns in exchange for $200 million of public financing.

Government experts estimated the plan would have required an additional $50 million in road work and other improvements, and Snohomish County and Marysville officials decided in November that fiscal risk to taxpayers was too great.

ISC then reopened the site selection process across much of western Oregon and Washington.

"I think they learned a lot from the Snohomish deal," said state Sen. Tim Sheldon, D-Potlatch. "That whole deal was a debacle. I don't think they did enough homework on the site, and too much of the negotiating they did was in the public, which backfired."

One advantage of the new site, officials said, was that only one landowner is directly involved, compared with 30 at the Marysville location.

"I've had a feeling from day one that we would have an opportunity at this," Kitsap County Commissioner Janice E. Angel said. "Even when Snohomish County was picked the first time, I felt that we'd get a chance."

Despite the potential cost, economic development agencies throughout the region have competed in efforts to lure the track, which could generate $87.3 million to $121.8 million in business a year, mostly from out-of-state tourists, according to a study commissioned by supporters.

ISC owns most of its 11 tracks outright, but the proposed track near Marysville would have been publicly owned and leased to the company for three car races a year - the same number contemplated at the Port Orchard site.

Company officials said Wednesday it was too early to say how much they would seek from Washington state and Kitsap County but indicated a similar partnership is part of the plan.

ISC officials said they were eager to build a racetrack in the Pacific Northwest, which now has at least 11,000 ticket-buying fans, because the Southeast market is well-saturated and the nearest West Coast track is in Sonoma, about 40 miles north of San Francisco, company vice president Grant Lynch said.

"When you look at the map, there's basically a quarter of the country that we're not serving," Lynch said.

Looking NE. Here is the general area of the proposed track. Seattle skyline visible in the upper right:

http://www.aerolistphoto.com/images/wa/bremerton/2001/bmh2001_003.jpg

Looking SW:

http://www.aerolistphoto.com/images/wa/belfair/2000/bfh2000_003.jpg

I still believe Grand Mound or Lewis County; halfway between Seattle & Portland along I-5 in Washington's "NASCAR belt" would have been a better site. The views from the proposed site would be amazing but the track will be a bitch to get to. They better provide some shuttle bus deal to the area ferry terminals to shuttle folks back & forth.

Well no offense Seattle, but I think Nascar should build in Boise. We have PLENTY of desert land for any size huge tracks. We could bring in the fan base from all over the northwest and Salt Lake City. Not to mention the weather.

The fan base is just so much larger, putting it Western Washington was a no brainer to capture Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Spokane, & Boise. There are more people in King, Pierce, Snohomish, Thurston, Mason, & Kitsap Counties than there is in Idaho, E. Oregon, & E. Washington combined. Tri-Cities would have made more sense than Boise. As many people live in Eastern Washington as Idaho plus Tri-Cities is closer to Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Spokane, Coeur d'Alene....

I think it's cool......I've never been to a race! :D

^ Me neither but some of my family members live near Pocono & Watkins Glen & love it; even the ones who hate racing (because they love the parties, tailgating, & crowds of people). When it is built, I am totally there! I only live 40 minutes away & I don't have to cross a bridge or take a ferry to get there.

Yup, it's offical...news said that they chose the site between Mason/Kitsap counties near Bremerton airport...it would be between 0.7 to 1.2 mile track on 950 acres of land and would probably bring in up to $121 million into the economy every year. I hope it gets built and have Northwest pride of NASCAR! :D I never been to one but wanna go to a real one someday, I've watched it on TV.

Proposed site:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2005/06/23/2002345993.gif

NASCAR tries again with site near Bremerton (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002346651_nascar24.html)

Proposed site:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2005/06/23/2002345993.gif

Now I see clearly where it is. I see it's near highway 3. I wonder if it's a 4 lane freeway or just a 2 lane road....it won't handle the traffic on a 2 lane road that well. I think they may have to widen that road all the way to the junction of SR 16.

It is a two lane road. It would need some work but not expansion into a full out freeway yet. With growth in the Belfair area & concerns of people using Highway 3 more often to avoid the coming Narrows Bridge tolls, the road needs to be fixed anyway & they have been talking about it for over a decade. It should be a 4 lane artery/highway with a center turn lane & traffic lights at busy intersections from Gorst to Belfair. An extra wide shoulder that can be used as a speedway traffic queue lane would be nice too.

Rendering:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/images/unisys-images/20050624-images/NWS0624_Nascar_G.JPG


Kitsap County lands speedway (http://www.thenewstribune.com/front/topphoto/story/4971020p-4543161c.html)

It is a two lane road. It would need some work but not expansion into a full out freeway yet. With growth in the Belfair area & concerns of people using Highway 3 more often to avoid the coming Narrows Bridge tolls, the road needs to be fixed anyway & they have been talking about it for over a decade. It should be a 4 lane artery/highway with a center turn lane & traffic lights at busy intersections from Gorst to Belfair. An extra wide shoulder that can be used as a speedway traffic queue line would be nice too.

A extra wide shoulder should be a good idea because NASCAR race only happens few times a year, so that would be a useful option. I think 4 lane artery would work with major intersections because of the belfair growth, not the NASCAR itself only. We'll see what happens.

Sweet I live in Bremerton! Hello NASCAR!

The fan base is just so much larger, putting it Western Washington was a no brainer to capture Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Spokane, & Boise. There are more people in King, Pierce, Snohomish, Thurston, Mason, & Kitsap Counties than there is in Idaho, E. Oregon, & E. Washington combined. Tri-Cities would have made more sense than Boise. As many people live in Eastern Washington as Idaho plus Tri-Cities is closer to Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Spokane, Coeur d'Alene....


Ya I see your point on the population issue. I also agree with you on the Tri-Cities. That would be very centrally located if you think about it. I guess I just would like to see Boise get something nice. Between Seattle, Portland, and Salt Lake they all have alteast 1 professional sport.

Actually, the fan base would be more centrally located around the tri-cities, not the tri-cities itself, but the surroundings. Also weather wise it would be better for them, and cheaper land, and they wouldn't have to demolish a thousand acres of forest for this. ugh, just look at those parking lots, i guess Weyerhaeuser will gladly mow em down for them.

in other news about the tri-cities, I hear that six-flags is thinking about a theme park here, so a friend says.

lol, I just looked up the six flags thing, and this is what I found:

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/tch/local/story/6414392p-6293032c.html

Ya, Boise was supposed to get a big ass theme park a few years ago and that fell through. Which sucks!