What do you do with what should be prime real estate, but conditons on the ground fight mighty hard against redevelopment?

The following locations offer naturally stellar waterfront locations that have been crippled by human usage for over 100 years:

Calumet region shoreline (Lake Co, IN): short of some disasterous areas in NJ, it would be hard to think of a landscape more brutalized by the hands of man than this steel making area. Shoreline casinos is basically all that has been done to readpt the waterfront to recreational/pleasure usage. The real question here: how many years and decades would it truly take to turn around the Hammond, E Chgo, Gary waterfronts, horribly scarred by industry, but possessing unparralleled prime shoreline so close to Chgo?

South Chicago/South Works: similiar to above. the plans have been in place for a long time. Not much has happened. Can upscale housing and quality redevelopment go in here, separated as it is by South Chicago and South Shore to the nearest comparable community, Hyde Park?

Waukegan/North Chicago: industrial, blue collar cities, with Waukegan having a port. The industry's dead and redevelopment is needed (and hopefully occur without the poor being squeezed out). The amount of infastructure work is daunting, but could the North Shore extend not only from Evanston to Lake Bluff, but to No. Chgo and Waukegan, as well?

Lakes in Lake County: Fox Lake is not Lake Geneva, but it's pretty damned attractive. What once was "summer cottages" dot the shoreline of Fox Lake, Lake Zurich, and others. One would have thought that tear-downs would have discovered this prime waterfront real estate years ago, but it hasn't happened (even in relatively close-in Lk Zurich). It's not that I want to see trophy homes dot the shore of Fox Lake; it's just I'm surprised it hasn't happened.

Rogers Park: nothing at all like any of the above (and industry has never been an issue), but why is this neighborhood so resistent to gentrificaton and redevelopment? All the lakefront neighborhoods to the south clearly are. Other inland neighborhoods on the city's northern fringe (W. Rogers Park, Peterson Pk, Hollywood Pk, Sauganash, Edgebrook) are doing quite well (with admittedly a larger stock of suburban like homes than Rogers Park can offer). Meanwhile, Evanston is damned beautiful across city limits. How can Rogers Park, with its lakefront, prime North Side location, an major university campus (Loyola) be so resistent to change.

Do you agree or disagree with the observations on the above and are there other such communities that you can identify?

Awww "Parc Rogier". When was considering a move to Chicago in 1998, a friend of mine in Seattle suggested Rogers Park would be a nice area to move to when made the big move here. He grew up in Rogers Park, and thought highly of it.
So, on my first visit in 98, My friend (a different one, I have more than one :wink2: ) and I set off on the Red Line for the northern reaches of the city. We got off at Jarvis, walked over to Sheridan Rd, and wound around pretty tree lined streets with beautiful houses and ended up at the Morse "L" station. I liked what I saw, and decided this was the neigborhood for me when I made my move, besides, it was amazingly affordable compared to Seattle (at the time).
I rented an apartment on Estes one block south of Touhy and a block off of Sheridan from a website on the internet. I paid for my deposit, and first months rent before I arrived, and on the day I arrived, I went to the leasing office, signed the lease, got the keys and finally saw the apartment. It was a HUGE one bedroom (900 sq ft) with beautiful refinished hardwood floors, and cheaper than my 500 sq ft place in Seattle by almost $200 a month.
Well, let me tell you..... It didn't take long for me to realize this was not the neighborhood for me. The photo's on the website neglected to show the crack dealers living in my building. Nor did it indicated that there would be gang bangers on the corner, or that that my laundry would be stolen more than once from the washing machine (it wasn't even finished washing). There is also lousy access to grocery shopping on Transit. I had to shop at Jewel on Berwyn on my way home from work. I had heard a lot of negative things about the dangers in Chicago while back in Seattle, and based upon my first apartment, it took me a awile to realize that it isn't this way in most of the city.
I lasted one year to the day in that place, when I was able to purchase a condo on the lakefront in Edgwater. Outside of the Heartland Cafe, and Enui Coffee House, I didn't have much of a good time in Rogers Park, and quite frankly, if I never end up there again, I don't feel I would be missing anything.
I know that Rogers Park can be very block by block, but it still isn't worth it to me.

I have an opinion that may not be too popular here.

I think some resistance to gentrification, esp on the already overgentrified north side, is not such a bad thing. In my opinion, some of the bitter, cold, harsh realities of life should remain present in the city. Crime, gangbangers, homelessness are a part of life and can be experienced first hand in Chicago. The suburbs, with their almost fake cleanliness and monotonous crime-free landscapes, do not have much of that element.

But this same brutal ugliness is what makes Chicago so much more beautiful. It is a place for all types--poor, rich, confused, angry, drug addicts, etc. It is a CITY, not a playground for the rich. Its role, as a city, is not just to exist, but to be a social machine, a means for the betterment of people--not for their elimination. That is why cities are where all the social programs for gangs and poor people are, not suburbs.

To continue to gentrify and force out those elements will likely be the most suburban thing that can be done to this city. You can build all the lofts, condos, streetfront shops, etc that you want, but in the end without the harsh realities of life, many of Chicago's neighborhoods will evolve into cute, suburban replicas of themselves.

I don't find that unpopular at all, Urban Poltician. In fact, I agree with you. Gentrification can be a curse. As you said, the gritty areas add to a city's character. A city can not be great if it just caters to the wealthy (and it certainly cannot have a soul) and, on a pragmatic level, total gentrificaton leads to total lack of jobs that service a community.

My original post had less to do with gentrification than with a curiosity of how areas that have:

• the right location (in the cases I mentioned, prime waterfront)

• a man-made landscape that defiled the land

can truly redevelop

(obviously more true of the industrial areas described on the far South Side and Indiana, as well as the industrial areas of Wauk/NoChgo

What I was really getting at: was land this valuable, but so scarred really capable of developing, or will it take decades after decades to make it happen?

"Crime, gangbangers, homelessness are a part of life and can be experienced first hand in Chicago. The suburbs, with their almost fake cleanliness and monotonous crime-free landscapes, do not have much of that element."

Somehow, I don't think you'd be so keen on the romantic aspects of homelessness and violence if you lived in a neighborhood with a lot of homelessness or violence.

Saying that it's a bad idea to simply run poor or working-class people out of town with high rents is one thing, and I agree strongly with that. But to say we should keep gangs and homelessness so we can have some kind of romanticized urbanness is sick. The city should focus a huge amount of its energy on transforming neighborhoods with these problems into someplace more liveable. It is possible to have a safe neighborhood where people want to bring up their kids without gentrification.

^That's exactly what I'm saying. That's why I said there should be social programs for the advancement of these people.

But if you read Edsg's first statement (no offense Edsg) he asked whether Rogers Park will not gentrify.

I don't have an urban fantasy to see violence and drugs. But to gentrify these people out of the neighborhood so that we middle/upper class people don't have to see them or their problems is just as sick, in my book.

But their problems cause the community problems. I don't see the benefit to anyone. Its one thing to say "Deal with it, its the city", when a young family can say "I don't have to deal with this shit at all" and leave for the burbs.
Rogers Park made alot of news recently about "gooning", groups of teenagers beating the hell out of older, single men for fun. That is sick. Beyond sick, really. I don't know about you, but I am avoiding E. Rogers Park completely. It is shit like this, that makes some urbanites move to the suburbs. No matter how much one can love a city, they will put their safety above it by a long shot.

I don't get what you are saying. It is better to see drug dealers and gang members around Morse Avenue, than to see yuppies around Belmont and Sheffield? It is better for Chicago if the activity on Morse spreads throughout the rest of the northside? I don't think so.

But their problems cause the community problems. I don't see the benefit to anyone. Its one thing to say "Deal with it, its the city", when a young family can say "I don't have to deal with this shit at all" and leave for the burbs.
Rogers Park made alot of news recently about "gooning", groups of teenagers beating the hell out of older, single men for fun. That is sick. Beyond sick, really. I don't know about you, but I am avoiding E. Rogers Park completely. It is shit like this, that makes some urbanites move to the suburbs. No matter how much one can love a city, they will put their safety above it by a long shot.

I don't get what you are saying. It is better to see drug dealers and gang members around Morse Avenue, than to see yuppies around Belmont and Sheffield? It is better for Chicago if the activity on Morse spreads throughout the rest of the northside? I don't think so.

^ But don't you guys see? You all are taking it from a "selfish" (no offense, just making a point) perspective. It's all about how this affects "me". How would this crime affect "me" or people like "me". Sure, let Rogers Park gentrify, let people like you or me move in; sure, kick those "gooning" teenagers out. But it doesn't get rid of the problem. They'll just move somewhere else. What have we accomplished? Perhaps some neighborhoods just shouldn't gentrify. Maybe we can't keep pushing the problem away.

Chicago has to deal with its problems. Why? Because its a CITY; it's not the suburbs. Suburbs have very small, homogenous populations that can easily vote out affordable or multifamily housing from their communities.

Chicago can't. I has to open its arms to the poor and the troubled. Sure, Chicago probably abuses them, but at least it provides them a home.

Name 1 suburb, just 1--that is providing housing for the poor. Name 1 town, just 1, that is at least attempting to create mixed-income housing neighborhoods that include very poor people living next door to middle-class people. Name another town that is creating SRO's (Single Room Occupancy buildings for the homeless) that are designed by Helmut Jahn!

Perhaps I am wrong. I respect all of your opinions, and I want to see Chicago become a safer place like all of you--I really do! But pushing the poor out is not fair. It's the strong bullying the weak, to tell you the truth. Chicago has a big heart--it is a place for all types. That's also, along with its great architecture, nightlife, etc, one of its truly awesome assets.

Name 1 suburb, just 1--that is providing housing for the poor. Name 1 town, just 1, that is at least attempting to create mixed-income housing neighborhoods that include very poor people living next door to middle-class people.

I for one live in Streamwood which is a smaller western suburb of Chicago and my community has worked quite hard to cater to lower income people. Much "section 8" housing is sprinkled throughout my subdivision and others where poor people do indeed live side-by-side with middle class. The rents for these poor houses are fairly low and are covered almost completely by the government. Also the neighboring town of Elgin has built even more section 8 housing than Streamwood. In fact, Elgin probably has the same percent low income housing per total as Chicago. So you should not stereotype suburban communities like that. I admit that there is too many white snobbish gated communites out here but that is not all of them. :)

Urban Politician, I live in West Rogers Park right now. I am not affected by violence, but even if I were, I fail to see how it would be selfish of me to demand a safer neighborhood.

You seem to be under the illusion that poor people necesitate drug dealing, gangs, and violence. This simply isn't true. I don't think anyone (here) is saying that we should push out the lower economic classes in our city, but we should provide an environment for everyone in which people feel safe.

Much "section 8" housing is sprinkled throughout my subdivision and others where poor people do indeed live side-by-side with middle class. The rents for these poor houses are fairly low and are covered almost completely by the government. Also the neighboring town of Elgin has built even more section 8 housing than Streamwood.

HA! I'm very cynical about the effectiveness of section 8 housing methods.

ou seem to be under the illusion that poor people necesitate drug dealing, gangs, and violence. This simply isn't true. I don't think anyone (here) is saying that we should push out the lower economic classes in our city, but we should provide an environment for everyone in which people feel safe.

What did Jane Jacobs say about this? Ah yes, I think it was the North End she was referring to (of Boston)... low income, but planners wrote it off as a poor area, banks blacklisted it... but it was a safe area. While planners decried the supposed blight of decay, the neighborhood itself was stable and connected together. Its only crime was that it was poor.

Not everybody has what it takes to earn a 6 digit salary, or be middle-class. That's not to say that they don't deserve a safe environment or should have quality affordable housing.

A city can be a city without the grit (Tokyo perhaps?), it just can't be a city without class diversity.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again:

can the Indiana shore in Lake Co ever be turned into the prime lakefront land it would be if the industry hadn't been there in the first place....or is this land just too scarred to have any serious redevelopment for decades?

Is this land rescuable?

^ thats what i heard about these land being proclaimed with

Awww "Parc Rogier". When was considering a move to Chicago in 1998, a friend of mine in Seattle suggested Rogers Park would be a nice area to move to when made the big move here. He grew up in Rogers Park, and thought highly of it.
So, on my first visit in 98, My friend (a different one, I have more than one :wink2: ) and I set off on the Red Line for the northern reaches of the city. We got off at Jarvis, walked over to Sheridan Rd, and wound around pretty tree lined streets with beautiful houses and ended up at the Morse "L" station. I liked what I saw, and decided this was the neigborhood for me when I made my move, besides, it was amazingly affordable compared to Seattle (at the time).
I rented an apartment on Estes one block south of Touhy and a block off of Sheridan from a website on the internet. I paid for my deposit, and first months rent before I arrived, and on the day I arrived, I went to the leasing office, signed the lease, got the keys and finally saw the apartment. It was a HUGE one bedroom (900 sq ft) with beautiful refinished hardwood floors, and cheaper than my 500 sq ft place in Seattle by almost $200 a month.
Well, let me tell you..... It didn't take long for me to realize this was not the neighborhood for me. The photo's on the website neglected to show the crack dealers living in my building. Nor did it indicated that there would be gang bangers on the corner, or that that my laundry would be stolen more than once from the washing machine (it wasn't even finished washing). There is also lousy access to grocery shopping on Transit. I had to shop at Jewel on Berwyn on my way home from work. I had heard a lot of negative things about the dangers in Chicago while back in Seattle, and based upon my first apartment, it took me a awile to realize that it isn't this way in most of the city.
I lasted one year to the day in that place, when I was able to purchase a condo on the lakefront in Edgwater. Outside of the Heartland Cafe, and Enui Coffee House, I didn't have much of a good time in Rogers Park, and quite frankly, if I never end up there again, I don't feel I would be missing anything.
I know that Rogers Park can be very block by block, but it still isn't worth it to me.


I agree that gentrification is not necessarily all good....what woul be good is if the economy were such that it could support jobs for people who don't have college or advanced degree....but this is getting off topic


Edsg let me just say that I know what you are talking about RP being resistant to gentrification.....however it really has changed quite a bit especially over the past few years.

I have lived in RP most of my life.....between stays in uptown, and ravenswood......I own a house on wolcott near pratt.......gentrification is happening "big time" in RP.....single families in East RP are going for over 400K starting......a house just sold two blocks north of me for 850K...another is on the block for 850K......houses along albion just near the beach all go for well over 500 - 600K......

Now property values are only one sign of gentrification.......there are other but I am hungry and have to go eat :cheers: :cheers:

Dude, this thread is ancient.

Strangely, I actually remember when InTheLoop made that post

^:lol:
well youll be in Ny so would it matters to you

Is this true TUP... Are you joining the dark side? I though you had plans to move into Dorothy Tillmans ward and kick some ass...

But their problems cause the community problems. I don't see the benefit to anyone. Its one thing to say "Deal with it, its the city", when a young family can say "I don't have to deal with this shit at all" and leave for the burbs.
Rogers Park made alot of news recently about "gooning", groups of teenagers beating the hell out of older, single men for fun. That is sick. Beyond sick, really. I don't know about you, but I am avoiding E. Rogers Park completely. It is shit like this, that makes some urbanites move to the suburbs. No matter how much one can love a city, they will put their safety above it by a long shot ..... LA1

You call these young boys sick, but i find it sick how a general society of irresponsible morons can produce and such "sick" youth. These kids are the product of poverty, violence, desperation, and IGNORANCE ... we dismiss these problems like they aren't our fault ... like these kids were possessed by the devil or something ..... NO. It is instead "sick" how we can ignore and dismiss the fact that POVERTY, DRUGS, MURDER, VIOLENCE, ABUSE, HUnGER, GANGS, plague these areas. THE problems of this violent youth are the community's problems because they are direct effect the community's condition of poverty.

"I don't have to deal with this shit at all" is America in a nutshell. THAT's what freedom is .... that's why more than half of America doesn't vote .. that's where our adversion to taxes comes from. We're lucky we don't have to deal with this shit at all ... because we live in a society and city segrated by wealth and race, so we don't have to confront other people's problems. Segregation removes ourselves from guilt we otherwise feel.

LA1, i don't think you're a racist or anything, and i don't expect you to be a martyr for the cause of desegration. What pissed me off is just the way you refered to that group of youth as being "sick." what's really sick is how you, me, and everyone else aren't willing to take the blame for their "sickness."

Is this true TUP... Are you joining the dark side? I though you had plans to move into Dorothy Tillmans ward and kick some ass...

^Yes, I'm going to New York starting this summer and I will be there for 3 years.

I tried really hard in Chicago but I just didn't get any love.....

Either way, I will be headed for Chicago when all is said and done--that's for sure. If Tillman is still around I will definitely be kicking some ass

^TUP, so let me get this straight. You're going to kick the ass of this old, defenseless woman?

http://www.thehistorymakers.com/admin_hm/images/1081291070.jpg

You monster!

3 years should be enough to get NY out of your system ;) Tillman will still be alive and kickin once you get here...

^Yes, I'm going to New York starting this summer and I will be there for 3 years.

I tried really hard in Chicago but I just didn't get any love.....

Either way, I will be headed for Chicago when all is said and done--that's for sure. If Tillman is still around I will definitely be kicking some ass

TUP......residency or what?


I am applying the Med School this spring.....my second attempt after spring of 04.......I hope to finish law school before ( if) I get in.....good luck in NY.......I would love to move there ( Just for a time....NY is NY....Chi is CHi....Love them both)


Once again good luck in the second city the doesn't sleep......actually that's be a good idea for a thread......"What time does your city's late night bars shut down".......Chi 5AM....NY 5am.....and few others

Wow, I found this ancient thread by googling rogers park and gentrification.
Our family bought our building in 2005, many naysayers obviously thought that gentrification of Rogers Park was impossible or just not in the cards.

Our building is near the Morse El stop. What do you guys think now? I think its obvious that Rogers Park is continuing to gentrify. I saw RP at that time at ripe for investment, it was before the big push. Its hard to time things and I dont have a crystal ball but in quick sucession Reside on Morse redid a horrible four plus one on Morse, and Actone/Mayne stage came into fruition. Morse Streetscape and two new condo buildings on Morse have changed the landscape. Top Hat Lounge is gone (it was a cool super seedy bar) and in its place is Chuckies, a new eastern european run bar. The historical society has relocated to Morse as well. Also Common Cup is at Greenview and Morse.

People can be pessimistic, but this thread was in 2004, JUST BEFORE the big movement forward. now its almost 2012. Look at Pratt and Sheridan, Pillars Social Club, an upscale panera like business is about to open. :banana::cheers:

What do you guys think now?
I think you are crazy for digging up a seven year old thread.

...and that we need to expand our urban vocabulary past that of gentrification. There are far too many complexities associated with the change of urban neighborhoods to lump everything positive into a single word.

I want to see urban neighborhoods evolve into safe environments, with good public schools, access to public transit, with a wide variety of housing all without having to have a starbucks on every corner and outrageous housing market conditions.

I think you are crazy for digging up a seven year old thread.

...and that we need to expand our urban vocabulary past that of gentrification. There are far too many complexities associated with the change of urban neighborhoods to lump everything positive into a single word.

I want to see urban neighborhoods evolve into safe environments, with good public schools, access to public transit, with a wide variety of housing all without having to have a starbucks on every corner and outrageous housing market conditions.

I know im crazy :banana:
My point is, is that you have to have some foresight in order to do well with investments. There was alot of BS with the housing bubble obviously.
But I had a very different view back in 2004/5. I thought Rogers Park was a good place to invest in at that time especially around Morse, especially with multiunit property (something stable). And it turns out that I was right. Many people are too negative is my point, especially concerning Rogers Park. Yes the schools still suck around there, atleast the public ones. The Private ones are decent. The Schools are always the last to improve. I want to know what people think of Rogers Park now, especially considering this extreme and in my opinion unwarranted pessimissim concerning this neighborhood.

Yes, well before g********* word, what was it?
How about the general neigbhorhood is improving, there is a starbucks
on sheridan and one inside of Dominicks. I dont think Starbucks will ever be quite the symbol for the g word again like it once was. More boutique businesses are opening.

I want to know what people think of Rogers Park now, especially considering this extreme and in my opinion unwarranted pessimissim concerning this neighborhood.

When I first looked at moving into the city I was attracted by Rogers Park, the tree lined streets, the pocket beaches, cheap rent, proximity to the El, ethnic cuisine on Devon... but was driven away after talking to many people who had been living in the area for a few years. Everyone told me the same thing, that there is nothing to do there, that it is too far away, lots of crime, "my friend so and so was mugged" and ultimately that I should look at the Lakeview, Lincoln Park, North Center, Lincoln Square neighborhoods.

I ended up moving to Lakeview and after bouncing around for a few years have finally found an apartment worth staying in... however, during the same time my views and experiences of various Chicago neighborhoods have drastically swayed. Since I am years and years away from possibly having kids I dont worry about schools (although they are good indicators of the potential for sustained neighborhood stability IMO) and have become attracted to areas like East Rogers Park, Edgewater, Ukrainian Village, Pilsen, Bridgeport for their authentic character, stable housing stock and affordable prices. I have even been keeping my eye on a pair of jumbo 3 flats for sale in East Rogers Park for the past few months deliberating making a move. It is just so incredibly tempting to pick up a vintage building on a 35+ft lot, with 2200SF units that is steps from the lake and steps from the red line for under $400K.

Not sure if that answers anything... kind of went on a tangent there

When I first looked at moving into the city I was attracted by Rogers Park, the tree lined streets, the pocket beaches, cheap rent, proximity to the El, ethnic cuisine on Devon... but was driven away after talking to many people who had been living in the area for a few years. Everyone told me the same thing, that there is nothing to do there, that it is too far away, lots of crime, "my friend so and so was mugged" and ultimately that I should look at the Lakeview, Lincoln Park, North Center, Lincoln Square neighborhoods.

I ended up moving to Lakeview and after bouncing around for a few years have finally found an apartment worth staying in... however, during the same time my views and experiences of various Chicago neighborhoods have drastically swayed. Since I am years and years away from possibly having kids I dont worry about schools (although they are good indicators of the potential for sustained neighborhood stability IMO) and have become attracted to areas like East Rogers Park, Edgewater, Ukrainian Village, Pilsen, Bridgeport for their authentic character, stable housing stock and affordable prices. I have even been keeping my eye on a pair of jumbo 3 flats for sale in East Rogers Park for the past few months deliberating making a move. It is just so incredibly tempting to pick up a vintage building on a 35+ft lot, with 2200SF units that is steps from the lake and steps from the red line for under $400K.

Not sure if that answers anything... kind of went on a tangent there

I just like to hear others viewpoints. To be sure RP is a risk aware neighborhood and those that are completely risk averse wouldnt venture there, but more and more it is becoming less risk aware.

If you could afford a three flat in RP I would do it IMHO. Our family is heavily vested in Rogers Park, we have a couple apt buildings in the family, one large one by Morse EL stop and a 2 flat by Jarvis EL stop. And despite the poor economy Rogers Park has continued to improve. There is a farmers market now that is doing extremetly well on glenwood. New gay bar on glenwood too, the glenwood, a nice one, always a good sign. Many new murals as well.

Ofcourse RP is patchy and it all depends on which block you buy a building.
I am very involved in the community and everyblock, one cant just hope an area improves, picking up trash, calling the cops when needed, covering up graffiti and calling things into 311 that need to be fixed has to be done.

There is nothing wrong with Lincoln Square, Lincoln park, North Center or Lakeview, its pricey and there is less upside. They will all continue to slowly appreciate, but ofcourse the buy-in is steeper because they have all "arrived". Good deals in up and coming nabes wont last forever, now is definitely a good time to buy.

Ofcourse RP is patchy and it all depends on which block you buy a building.


I know that areas near Howard are generally regarded as the "sketchier" parts of RP, but how would you describe the Juneway/Jonquil Terrace area?

I know that areas near Howard are generally regarded as the "sketchier" parts of RP, but how would you describe the Juneway/Jonquil Terrace area?

I think that area is still a good investment, but there are some long leases left on some of the section 8 there. So yeah thats whats bad about that area, alot of section 8. But Howard is still improving and a new streetscape is in the works, it will likely take awhile, but its supposed to happen soon.

Good deals around there, for a reason, its sweat equity, mainly there you have to sweat it out while there is still a preponderance of section 8.
Too much loitering on Howard too still. BUT, you have Lakeside Cafe doing well east of greenview, Lost Eras is great, the pawnshop spiffed itself up.
Supposedly the Howard Theatre building is going to be shaped up. A new bike coop on Paulina. And decrepit buildings that couldnt be saved have been torn down, a new community center. The building with sandys food in it was fixed up quite a bit. So more good people are in the area and less bad, thats was the 2010 census figures show.

The area is moving in the right direction, that and the new 415 Howard evanston apt building is bringing in new people and doing well, nice dominicks at clark and howard and that hopp haus is okay (a spin off from leonas) on clark. Also Triangle Park behind the cta train yard has new exercise workout stations.

So in the end its a good LONG TERM investment. Still NOH is the roughest part of Rogers Park, but its not as rough as before, closer to sheridan is better ofcourse because its more sfh and east of sheridan is very nice except for the neredowells who hang by the lake. I have definitely noticed that there is beginning to be a noticeable demographic change of who walks on howard. Still Howard is pretty seedy however.

Still Howard is pretty seedy however.

Yeah, that is what has been holding me up given the asking prices of the properties in question... maybe if they dropped another 12-15% I could overlook the general seediness, so long as the 5 year trend is that of diminishing neighborhood section 8 units.

Yeah, that is what has been holding me up given the asking prices of the properties in question... maybe if they dropped another 12-15% I could overlook the general seediness, so long as the 5 year trend is that of diminishing neighborhood section 8 units.

^ With Section 8 you at least are guaranteed rent collection. Of course, that does little for the long term value of your building.

Either way, Roger Park has a great building stock and would be a kick ass place once the undesirables are gentrified out of there.

I have taken up real estate investing (and rehabbing, at least as of lately) and if any of you are interested in partnering up, PM me. The really big buildings are just out of reach, but with a few partners a 10 or 15 unit building in a good area of the city can be a great asset to get a hold of, IMO.

^ With Section 8 you at least are guaranteed rent collection. Of course, that does little for the long term value of your building.

Another factor is that Section 8 pays out the same rent citywide, so if you're in a marginal neighborhood it will pay a lot more than the market will. For a lot of landlords trying to rent in a down market, a long term Section 8 contract is a godsend.

^ With Section 8 you at least are guaranteed rent collection. Of course, that does little for the long term value of your building.

While you're at least guaranteed the rent, I would rather not have to deal with Section 8 when it comes to disorderly tenants, damage to the property and eviction policies... everything I have heard while researching makes it one huge nightmare for the building owner.

And in my case, my purchase would lead to an owner occupied building while I get my feet wet in landlording/rehabbing so there is no way in hell I would put myself through that on a 24/7 basis.

While you're at least guaranteed the rent, I would rather not have to deal with Section 8 when it comes to disorderly tenants, damage to the property and eviction policies... everything I have heard while researching makes it one huge nightmare for the building owner.

And in my case, my purchase would lead to an owner occupied building while I get my feet wet in landlording/rehabbing so there is no way in hell I would put myself through that on a 24/7 basis.

Yeah its better to be living in your building for awhile so you can get keep an eye on it and fix things you can fix and get to know the building. We use a leasing agent to get good tenants, its worth it, I dont have time to find good tenants or show the place, there is alot of turn over with our one bedrooms, and the kind of people you get looking with a for rent sign or craigslist in the city, its just too huge of a hassle. If you only have a couple units though it could be managed yourself.

Yeah section 8 is never worth it, especially if you are living in the building.

^ With Section 8 you at least are guaranteed rent collection. Of course, that does little for the long term value of your building.

Either way, Roger Park has a great building stock and would be a kick ass place once the undesirables are gentrified out of there.

I have taken up real estate investing (and rehabbing, at least as of lately) and if any of you are interested in partnering up, PM me. The really big buildings are just out of reach, but with a few partners a 10 or 15 unit building in a good area of the city can be a great asset to get a hold of, IMO.

Glad to hear it URB. Smart move. I find working in real estate to be fun and something to be done longterm. No get rich quick schemes for me. I like managing and fixing up old buildings. Yeah Section 8 is bad for the value of the building.

Yeah, that is what has been holding me up given the asking prices of the properties in question... maybe if they dropped another 12-15% I could overlook the general seediness, so long as the 5 year trend is that of diminishing neighborhood section 8 units.

But you do have to look at it longterm. How long do you plan on owning this building? If its over 25 years than I think Rogers Park is a very good investment. Neighborhoods take a long time to change, especially that area, the whole fact that it is such a good location and that its got alot of section 8 that is slowly being phased out. On everyblock one informed person seems to think that alot of it will stay there for the next 20/25 years. I dont know.
Thats a whole nother generation. I think the 5 year trend for Howard is good however... But I think with that area its good to think in terms of 10-20 years. Howard has a great EL stop thats one thing for sure.

I think the 5 year trend for Howard is good however... But I think with that area its good to think in terms of 10-20 years.

It is always best to look further down the road when making RE investments, but the numbers also need to work in the immediate future as well.

Thanks for keeping up with the RP discussion, I'll get back to this later.

We use a leasing agent to get good tenants

Just curious, what kind of tenant demographics are you finding in RP? I would imagine the market being pretty flush with Loyola and Northwestern students... is that accurate?

Just curious, what kind of tenant demographics are you finding in RP? I would imagine the market being pretty flush with Loyola and Northwestern students... is that accurate?

Hey sorry, didnt notice your question til now.
Yeah some Loyola and NW students. The NW students are bored of Evanston and wanted to try something new nearby. GOOD!!! Some tenants are people that are long term hardworking people.

Getting a good leasing agent is so key to getting good tenants I cant say it enough. Its just not possible to get these people by yourself. We have tried. It takes time and work to build up a reputation.... And these kind of people are more apt to use a leasing agent. Its understandable. Plus its nice to have someone else to talk too. Being a landlord isnt easy and having more resources at hand is very helpful. Eventually the building we have should be run MORESO by a managment company. But for the time being we are running it ourselves.

The demographics have changed ALOT recently around the Morse EL stop.
Dollar Day has closed on Morse!!!! Thank god. :cheers: Hopefully a decent restaurant goes in its place!!!!!

Getting a good leasing agent is so key to getting good tenants I cant say it enough. Its just not possible to get these people by yourself. We have tried. It takes time and work to build up a reputation.... And these kind of people are more apt to use a leasing agent. Its understandable. Plus its nice to have someone else to talk too. Being a landlord isnt easy and having more resources at hand is very helpful. Eventually the building we have should be run MORESO by a managment company. But for the time being we are running it ourselves.

^ Couldn't agree more. I have been happy with a leasing agent I used recently. He wasn't that experienced, but he was very hard working and runs credit/background checks on potential tenants. He also brought in a lot of traffic, much more than I could have done with my Craigslist and Trulia listings. I paid that agent a full month's rent, just because I was eager to get my building filled. In the future I might try to bring down the rate. What have you been paying your leasing agent?

Despite that, I still worry that one of my tenants could end up losing their job or move out or something. You can never predict anybody 100%

^ Couldn't agree more. I have been happy with a leasing agent I used recently. He wasn't that experienced, but he was very hard working and runs credit/background checks on potential tenants. He also brought in a lot of traffic, much more than I could have done with my Craigslist and Trulia listings. I paid that agent a full month's rent, just because I was eager to get my building filled. In the future I might try to bring down the rate. What have you been paying your leasing agent?

Despite that, I still worry that one of my tenants could end up losing their job or move out or something. You can never predict anybody 100%

Yeah I pay the leasing agent one months rent. That is pretty standard.
Actually I think its good to keep it that way. Our leasing agent then has
an incentive to RAISE THE RENT and get higher rents. We are doing much better, more decent humans as tenants and better rents.

Im living in a 10 flat that we are renting out so its very important to have nice people (important anyways), it really helps the neighborhood out as well. You dont live in your rental property do you URB? Its fun and weird but I wont do it forever.The best rental property to live in at most ofcourse is a duplex/twoflat.

Where is your rental property located? I last heard you were working around racine is that still the case? I miss milwaukee, had lived there two years, but I make it up several times a year to check up on a duplex we kept in riverwest.