While walking on Queen the other day, it dawned on me that Toronto really does not have many car-free places, which I think is a shame. However, maybe I just don't know all the areas. So, in this spirit, please list some areas which are car-free.

I'll start, together with pros and cons.

Destillery District
Pro: Nicely rennovated, especially inside. A little slice of history.
Con: WAY too short--can't really 'walk.' Overlooks the gardiner. Feels somewhat dirty outside.

Dundas Square
Pro: Nice area. Will only get better. Flashy.
Con: Short once again, cars are still all around.

Kensigton Market
Pro: Quirky, quintessentially Toronto-like multiculturalism. Great shops. Always a great experience. A place to meet and greet people.
Con: Street closed only one day a week and not anymore (didn't know about the latter part)

Beaches Boardwalks:
Pro: Stunning view (minus the chimneys), definetely a fair-sized walk, houses on the other side are quite nice (if 'suburban').
Con: It may not count, it's not really a 'street' or a 'square,' more like a park.

The Toronto Islands are completely car-free.

But we definitely lack a ped-only street in Toronto. This past summer, Kensington Market was ped-only on Sundays for about 10 weeks. Also, Church between Wellesley and Alexandra was made ped-only on Sundays but it failed (it was supposed to go until Labour Day, I show up the weekend before and... cars). Kensington, on the other hand, was very successful (even the mayor showed up). But still, the city is talking about Queen W. and the Danforth as potential ped-only experiments. I think Queen W. is a great idea but the Danforth is a bit wide (although there plenty of cafes to keep it interesting).

I'm really not a big fan of the ped-only street. I like the hustle-bustle of roads and crowded sidewalks...especially if there is a streetcar on the street and scooters zipping around. I think a good combination has more vitality than one or the other. Places like Kensington may have vehicles...but it's pretty clear who has the priority in that area....even the roads are considered pedestian zones over the vehicles....unless you absolutely have to be there, I would never try to drive around that place.






KGB

I think I'm not the only one that would disagree. Sure noise is good, but not when it's car horns and cars moving. Ped-only has a lot of advantages, not least of all being able to cross the street without having to look out for cars.

Possibly a question to ask is what streets are good candidates for ped-only... and at what frequency (all the time, once a week, etc). I think you'll find that outside of Kensington, there really aren't any other good candidate streets. Possibly Baldwin between McCaul and Beverley, or Elm St. between Yonge and Bay? Toronto excels at creating vibrancy on its major streets but, for the most part, the side streets are either purely residential or have very little commercial activity... something that, if Toronto had more of, would make excellent ped-only candidates. But I see nothing wrong with making Queen W. for example ped-only on Sundays during the summer months.

Hmmm, I like the Elm street idea.

Personally, I would close Queen W. for all time, but obviously this ain't gonna happen.

I'm with KGB on this one. Ped-only streets are usually bad ideas. Think of Ottawa, whats more happening: Sparks St. or Byward Market? There are some good examples in Montreal, but generally they're pretty tricky.

And having Kensington Market as ped only would kill the area. It's a fully functioning diverse economic zone, not some fluffy tourist park. It simply needs trucks for deliveries; it's a market for christ sake. Baldwin Street would be successful because its just restaurants and patios mostly, and its not an important thoroughfare in any sense. Maybe even that street beside Honest Ed's (cant recall the name offhand). I won't even talk about Queen West! That would be a miserable failure.

No, it's definitely not gonna happen... because Queen is a major thoroughfare. It's gotta be a street that currently doesn't see much traffic, is vibrant, and other street options for drivers are easily accessibly.

How about the Esplanade? It's kinda like a forgotten road... it's screaming to be ped-only (it would need some work though)


Maybe even that street beside Honest Ed's (cant recall the name offhand).
Yeah, I thought of Markham St. but it's still a pretty busy street (one of my favourite residential streets in the city... it's beautiful!!)


Oh, another ped-only area is Trinity Sq. on the west side of TEC... nice church, a fountain, a cool little maze cut from grass, lots of benches and an outdoor cafe.

I think I'm not the only one that would disagree. Sure noise is good, but not when it's car horns and cars moving. Ped-only has a lot of advantages, not least of all being able to cross the street without having to look out for cars.


I agree...personally, I think pedestrian only areas are fantastic. They just have a certain freedom and atmosphere I find very appealing.

SpatulaCity, Esplande is a very interesting idea, but I haven't been there in a billion years. But last time I remember, not much goes on in that area in terms of restaurants/caffees, no?

Esplande has it's fair share of restaurants, cafes, and pubs/bars... the Bier Market for one. Esplande would be tricky though because the Novotel would require car access and then further down, there are apartments that have no other access out. Possibly ped-only between Church and Jarvis, although this is quite a small distance.

I'm not against certain little stretches transforming into more pedestrian street affairs. Stretches Queen West would certainly be a major one...however, it is doable, as the street is serviced by delivery alleys on both the north and south of the street, which would make deliveries still practical. They could still keep the streetcar, with wide ped walkways on either side. Queen is indeed a major thoroughfare, but it's flanked by other major routes to the north and south of it....it wouldn't cause a huge problem getting through downtown east-west.

Other smaller stretches could also benifit...John St is a natural...Baldwin, etc.

I just don't like the temporary ones...either do it right or don't bother.






KGB

^ Ah, I see. Well then, I am in complete agreement with you KGB. I was actually thinking exactly the same thing - keep the tram but car traffic out. Still, way too drastic to ever happen.

Quite a bit OT, did they widen the sidewalks on College west of Spadina? I honestly can't remember what it looked like before... it seems wider though.

"Still, way too drastic to ever happen."


Yea...Queen West is pure retail....and there's no way in hell the business community would go for it. Look how they're freaking out about the right-of-way on St Clair...and that really isn't even going to affect anything in a major way.

Besides...can you imagine the Black Bull without the herd of Harleys parked out front?? LOL!






KGB

Algonquin,

Sparks Street in Ottawa did not fail because no cars are allowed, it has been challenged as a shopping destination by the nearby Rideau Mall. One attempt to rejuvinate the street is the addition of residential units, a first for Sparks street.

Algonquin,

Sparks Street in Ottawa did not fail because no cars are allowed, it has been challenged as a shopping destination by the nearby Rideau Mall. One attempt to rejuvinate the street is the addition of residential units, a first for Sparks street.

Perhaps it's apples and oranges, but wouldn't the market have been affected negatively as well? Just a thought... it's a very complex issue that deals with the science of urban dynamics, and I'd get fired if I spent too much time here trying to figure it out! Now wheres my copy of Death and Life of American Cities?

By the "market" I assume you mean the Byward market. That area is very different from Sparks. For one thing, people live in and around the Byward Market. There is also a very diverse range of merchants and lots of bars. Over the years, the pedestrian areas have been enlarged, and it is a pain in the ass to park there. No, it is not a "pedestrian only area" like Sparks. But then the Byward market doesn't empty out like the downtown does at 5:30. Sparks is pretty much surrounded by office buildings.

Nevertheless, I have noticed that life on Sparks is ever so slowly improving. It really needs some residential component and even a hotel would help. Ottawa can easily support at least one pedestrian mall.

I think Queen Street West and Kensington are too great the way they are to fiddle with, and though I love pedestrian zones I would be reluctant to change these areas. Here's my list:

1) The little stretch of Dundas on Dundas Square near the Hard Rock Cafe. Close it and make HAAAAAYOOOOGE patios all along there, with new restos replacing the Dundas Square family resto or whatever. This seems to me a total non-brainer.

2) I think Elm Street, at least half of it between Yonge + Bay, is a good idea. With signs so that people on Yonge know it is there.

3) I always though John Street should be promoted as the "Main Street" of Toronto's E-District. It's such a natural, running from the high (Grange Park, AGO, OCAD) to the low (SkyDome) with all sorts of stuff happening below. Make it pedestrian and market it heavily, perhaps even rename it.

I think Queen Street West and Kensington are too great the way they are to fiddle with, and though I love pedestrian zones I would be reluctant to change these areas. Here's my list:

1) The little stretch of Dundas on Dundas Square near the Hard Rock Cafe. Close it and make HAAAAAYOOOOGE patios all along there, with new restos replacing the Dundas Square family resto or whatever. This seems to me a total non-brainer.

2) I think Elm Street, at least half of it between Yonge + Bay, is a good idea. With signs so that people on Yonge know it is there.

3) I always though John Street should be promoted as the "Main Street" of Toronto's E-District. It's such a natural, running from the high (Grange Park, AGO, OCAD) to the low (SkyDome) with all sorts of stuff happening below. Make it pedestrian and market it heavily, perhaps even rename it.


1. I think I heard once upon a time that something like this was actually proposed.

2. Yes, this I approve of.

3. Probably too much work to happen.

John St. intersects with many major downtown streets... King, Adelaide, Richmond, Queen, how will cars cross the street when it's ped-only?

I agree that Dundas Sq. being ped-only is a complete no brainer. When was this idea proposed? What's the status of it?

I agree that Dundas Sq. being ped-only is a complete no brainer. When was this idea proposed? What's the status of it?

Again, this is hearsay, I heard from a friend of a friend that this was in the cards. Meaning it most likely isn't.

Oh...the intersections on John stay open of course.






KGB

lets make the Gardiner ped-only :D

^ Hahaha, although really, it would be quite an interesting, if pointless, excersise for so many reasons.

Seriously, though, I wonder just how serious the city is on making ANYTHING ped-only.

Oh...the intersections on John stay open of course.

I know... my point is that it would be kinda annoying.

Pedestrian-Free zones are a great concept that thrive in European communities where tight quarters create a great sense of community, comfort and closeness. In Toronto there are areas that give off this atmosphere but because of their importance in serving traffic flow, eliminating cars could mean irritating problems for drivers and pedestrians in surrounding areas. The Distillery works well as a quaint area on its own, and having Kensington Market streets close down on days where traffic isnt such a problem is a great idea. However, it would be difficult to see other popular areas shut down to cars simply because they are too important for transportation in and out of the area...such as Queen W.
One street that Toronto City Council is considering closing (partially) is Gould St. on Ryerson University campus - from Victoria St. to Bond St. I think this is a GREAT idea considering the intense flow of students from one side to the other and the current construction of the New Student Centre on Gould St. (scheduled to open Feb 2005) This will increase the sense of community, comfort and closeness on a campus that seriously needs it!

I know... my point is that it would be kinda annoying
why? any pedestrian street that goes more than a block or 2 intersects with streets that carry cars.

lets make the Gardiner ped-only :D

Or put streetcars on it!

I personally like the concept of pedestrian corridors done in places like Melbourne. These are often back alleys, boardwalks or other narrow cozy areas where people can stroll. Having a whole full width street given over to pedestrians is usually overkill and ends up feeling devoid of life as KGB mentioned.

It's hard enough for pedestrians to provide enough activity and energy to animate a city square, and that's a much more limited space. Trying to translate that into a busy full-length street is much tougher and requires a huge amount of foot traffic to avoid it feeling desolate.

Pedestrian only can ONLY work on relatively narrow streets. In fact, the narrower the better. Trying to adapt a typical four lane North American asphalt thoroughfare into a pedestrian only corridor is a recipe for disaster. You wind up with a windswept, souless landing strip that people just don't feel comfortable or cosy on.

But we definitely lack a ped-only street in Toronto.

+1. We need to intensify our war on the car! :cheers:

One street that Toronto City Council is considering closing (partially) is Gould St. on Ryerson University campus - from Victoria St. to Bond St. I think this is a GREAT idea considering the intense flow of students from one side to the other and the current construction of the New Student Centre on Gould St. (scheduled to open Feb 2005) This will increase the sense of community, comfort and closeness on a campus that seriously needs it!

Update on this, 7 years later; I'd say it has been a success during the school year, and during the daytime in particular. I ride my bike around there many nights and it is completely deserted, as there are no cafes, bars etc... If there is no reason for people to linger on a pedestrian -only strip, no one will bother staying there. Also, it still has that "permanent temporary" look; ie: ordinary paved street with little effort made to provide benches, interlock paving, plants, trees, etc... It looks like any moment they could move the portable pylons away and traffic could nicely resume where it left off. So... it really was a half assed effort.

We will see a bigger push for this once all the new downtown residents settle into the urban life

Update on this, 7 years later; I'd say it has been a success during the school year, and during the daytime in particular. I ride my bike around there many nights and it is completely deserted, as there are no cafes, bars etc... If there is no reason for people to linger on a pedestrian -only strip, no one will bother staying there. Also, it still has that "permanent temporary" look; ie: ordinary paved street with little effort made to provide benches, interlock paving, plants, trees, etc... It looks like any moment they could move the portable pylons away and traffic could nicely resume where it left off. So... it really was a half assed effort.

The closure was only a pilot project. It was only approved recently by Council that it will be a permanent closure, so I expect some more effort.

Pedestrian only can ONLY work on relatively narrow streets. In fact, the narrower the better. Trying to adapt a typical four lane North American asphalt thoroughfare into a pedestrian only corridor is a recipe for disaster. You wind up with a windswept, souless landing strip that people just don't feel comfortable or cosy on.

Agree. Turning 2 way streets into 1 way streets isn't as bad, but also takes away from the vibrancy of a street. I wonder how much better Richmond and Adelaide would be if they reverted back to 2 way streets?

Personally I think that king or queen west between younge and spadina would work. Keep the street cars and it would feel very European. You already have loads of restaurants and boutiques, which could spread out in the summer.

Kensington should be pedestrian only all the time except for delivery and service vehicles.

Personally I think that king or queen west between younge and spadina would work. Keep the street cars and it would feel very European. You already have loads of restaurants and boutiques, which could spread out in the summer.


Between University and Spadina maybe. Baldwin Street would also be a good pedestrian only street.

Kensington should be pedestrian only all the time except for delivery and service vehicles.

That is the first one on the list. It is already de facto pedestrian. Rip up the asphalt, put down pavers and Bob's yer uncle.

When walking down there I'm always miffed when you see people in there cars out for an afternoon drive trying to wedge through the masses. they kind of piss me off. The sidewalks are way to small for the amount of people who go there.

Kensington should be pedestrian only all the time except for delivery and service vehicles.

Yep, I agree 100%! And I'd love to see the retail expand to more streets in the neighbourhood. I'd love to see the whole area from Collage to Dundas, Bathurst to Spadina, become a huge retail market and culture/entertainment area. In time, I'm sure it will happen naturally, when the population density grows in that area. It would be a great area for intimate lane-way retail/cafes and quirky night clubs. The more pedestrian areas, the better!

I'm sure it would have an amazing ambiance!