Although business mans already planned to build higher buildings than Europa Tower and architects were making projects for them, there will be no taller buildings in NCC than Europa tower. City planners decided that there could be a few towers of a similar height to ET but all the rest should be lower.
There will be 700 000 m^2 of residential buildings and a similar amount of office space, space for shopping centers. In NCC there will also be schools, new church, etc. The residential buildings will have not more than 5-7 floors. The bright exterior colors of high-rises will be not allowed too. Different buildings will be of a unique design but also they'll have some common things. All these rules were created in order to save the old town, nature (some hills). There are some more rules for example: the planted trees will have to be not younger than 7-12 years and only of some particular sorts; there will be no advertisments allowed on the residential buildings; pavements and other environment details will have to be made only of some sort of materials; etc.
Near new high-rises and other modern buildings there will be left 100 year old wooden buildings which are located around Giedraičių street - this'll create a nice contrast. Those wooden buildings will be restored and will be used for residential purposes, cafes, restaurants, hadicraftsmans workplaces (didn't know how to say it correct in English :)).
NCC will be a lively city center at day time and nighttime. There will live 30 000 people. It is expected that some government isntitutions, banks, other offices will move from the old town to NCC.
There are panned many parks, squares, other open spaces, artificial lakes, also art galleries, museums, concert halls.

Now some more exact plans for NCC:
The owners of "Forum Palace" wants to build two 12 floor high-rises, near Konstitucijos avenue.
Near "Forum Palace" "Merko statyba" plans to build public-commercial building.
Hotel "Reval hotel Lietuva" plans to build big conference center instead of parking place next to hotel.
Company "Vyrokas" (which is building "Vyrokas residential" right now) plans to build residential-commercial high-rise and a new building for "Vilniaus kooperacijos kolegija" (some college).
Other projects (as Kernaves bridge, some hotel, etc. were mentioned on these forums).
Also new pedestrian path above geležinio vilko street is planned - it'll connect NCC to an amusement park (where Siemens arena now is being built and other things such as waterpark, etc. are planned) and of a 30 000 places stadium near "Akropolis" (recently municipality of Vilnius got a suggestion from Izrael company "Klial Trading" which wants to build that stadium - it should cost about 140-160 mln EUR).


That's all for now :), sorry if I made some English language mistakes.

thwat??? no taller buildings then ET? ROfl, that suxx hard

:naughty:

good to hear that they plan residentials there too, and bars restaurants so on, if it had been strictly business it would be ghost town at night, now we can expect a very lively place!

@ch1le

yeah that sux really, and it even more sux that there won't be anything taller than ET in Tallinn :(


on the other hand it's just a proposal of a concept (vision) and for sure nobody will be strictly forced to obey it because every individual project is prepared separately and thus it's always possible to add a few floors if the investor will find it necessary, everything will depend on the detailed plan and approving in the municipality :)

john, ur starting it :nono:

well, ill be glad if they dont obey it, 129 shouldnt be a benchmark, better then the 123 in tallinn(luckily it was given tha finger)

Unfortunate and sad a for you guys. Well, it's better than nothing - be proud (like I *need* to say this) of what you already have. I think it's good that they intend to increase number of apartments in the area. Is the area around Europa Square any more lively nowadays after business hours?

Its NCC - but somewhere in Vilnius still something higher can be built? (But would somebody do it?)

@Ober

Don't forget, it's how SOME architects WISH it was so (I'm about no taller buildings than ET). This however doesn't mean it WILL be so, don't forget Lithuanian traditions of highrise constructions and their tend to become higher than they're supposed to be :)

Is the area around Europa Square any more lively nowadays after business hours?

It's not as lively as it could (or as I wish it was) be but it's quite ok, people like to meet and just have a rest in the square itself (it's quite a pleasant place at night with great ilumination) not mentioning the mall. Although as somebody mentioned before it now looks like "in the middle of nowhere", it's partially truth because if you walk a few meters to the side the view will be not as pleasant as before and the area is not developed. For the area to be lively it must be a movement from one place to another i.e. there must be many points of shopping, entertainment etc in one street or area. Now it's just a cluster of some enterprises in one point so even being a point of strong attraction it's still not as lively as it should (or should I say will?) be. We have to wait some time :)


@Gatis
height limitation varies in different areas, some areas (e.g. the street to the Northern direction which later goes as A2 highway to Riga) has no limitations and according to the vision there should be a cluster of highrises built which would be known as "Norhtern City Center" with new bus terminal, office, residential and other enterprises. But that's for the future after the Western highway will be built and it will connect the A2 highway with Minsk highway. This should happen in 2009 so then we may expect something even taller things to rise there.

That sucks bad.

No, if other areas would be developed as highrise areas - to my mind it is not bad decision.
The possibly best development of NCC - 24 hours alive quartal, real "city". This is achieved by having lots of interesting things there - museums, galleries, clubs, shops (not supermarkets but boutiques and specialty shops), open areas for walking, gathering, apartments, hotels.
NCC is located near to the Old City, it is even merging with it. And Old City is UNESCO WH monument. This is the priority above all.

Only - would be fine if the "real highrise" Northern Center would be visually well linked with NCC. With large boulevard (do not forget trees) or similar.

@John: If this plan will be accepted by municipality (the decision will be made this month) then building of higher buildings than ET will not be allowed. I'm 70% sure that it'll be accepted :). I'm quite sure that no one will build taller buildings then because they will not get a permision to build and another thing is that if they want to build bigger buildings (with more space) they can make them fatter instead of taller :).

Maybe for some forumers it seems that this is a disaster but I think that Vilnius will get a really great and modern city center. Modern architecture does not mean tall ;).

I see the lithuanian people here are so "blue eyed"!

well, for me its a disaster that no higher buildings are not allowed, it seems u gone back to 2000 where it was that "Vilnius will stay the only capital in the world with no Skyscrapers"

And here is a plan (scanned by John :)):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/johngang/snipiskez.jpg

red - commercial; yellow - residential; blue - high-rises.
Notice that big green area with small red buildings right behind Europa Tower. These small buildings are earlier mentioned old wooden houses which will be renovated. Such big park with the district of wooden buildings and skyscrapers in the background is expected to become a tourist attraction.

I see the lithuanian people here are so "blue eyed"!

well, for me its a disaster that no higher buildings are not allowed, it seems u gone back to 2000 where it was that "Vilnius will stay the only capital in the world with any Skyscrapers"
Sorry ch1le but sometimes you write something that is hard to understand, for example: "Vilnius will stay the only capital in the world with any Skyscrapers".

And well for me it definitely is not a disaster. Nice modern center with big parks, nice environment, highrises up to 33 floors, artificial lakes, wooden district inside a big park, modern low-rise buildings, etc. etc. looks really GREAT to me. And btw it's very unique I think.

dam :P lol.. yea at first i mentioned Vilnius will stay the only capital in the world with no skyscrapers, then i changed into any for somereason.... :P rofl, im kinda tired still, i hate mornings! :)

@Edd

Before the NCC (Europa Square) development started, it was not allowed to build taller buildings than 30 floors and 120m, but we see it didn't mean to become a strict rule. Height may vary according to the detailed plan changes.

We yet have to see what will happen with Helios tower, the permission was given for 23 floors, we'll see how tall actually it will be :|

heh lithuanian companys are crazy, in tallinn they would be tard and featherd for doing something like that :P will build the twins to 50 storeys rofl, i can already see the tallink ships to be transformed into battleships and moving towards finland to take out lemminkäinen! :P

@ch1le

it's not exactly that those companies are doing this just so. They use tactics. At first they get a permission for a building of 30 floors (for example, Europa Tower), then the construction starts and suddenly the detailed plan is changed and a few more floors are added. The excuse is that the architects and developer think it's better this way and those few floors "will not do much harm anyway" so they start to pressure the municipality to grant a permission for the corrected project. Some buildings get permission before the building is topped out (e.g. ET), and some not (e.g. EA). Now both are "legalized" anyway.

Similar case with Helios tower, they got a permission for 23 floors but then changed the project to 26 floors (it might actually be 27 floors) and now are attempting to get it approved and permission for 26 floors. Works are underway since June

not sure which variant of Helios Tower is that but looks like 23-24 floors
http://www.inre.lt/g_img/past1.jpg

@John: ET and EA were just a begining. I'm sure that after the plan of area will be accepted by municipality - no such things as with ET or EA will occur.

Helios tower is a different story (it's in a different place and it seems that the company which is building it has a good relationships with authority of municipality ;)). But ofcourse I can't also say that it'll have 26 floors for sure.

This is old thread and I bring it up to tell you that ET will not only stay as the tallest building in NCC - it will stay as by far tallest building in NCC.

The news: from this week (as far as I know - from tommorow) the new law will take action which will limit new constructions in the center. 28 floor Registru center which was U/C a few days ago will not be built. Most of TV news are giving very negative information about newly built and planned high-rises. People of Vilnius and Lithuania in delfi.lt and everywhere else share the same - very negative opinion about high-rises.

So, you can say welcome to new Helsinki of our region. ;)

Helsinki has 20 or so +50m projects going on. ;) Don't be so negative about us, we don't have anything as tall as Vilnius, but we're coming.

About the law. I don't think it is too bad; the most important aspect of all great cities is density, not height. :)

This is old thread and I bring it up to tell you that ET will not only stay as the tallest building in NCC - it will stay as by far tallest building in NCC.

The news: from this week (as far as I know - from tommorow) the new law will take action which will limit new constructions in the center. 28 floor Registru center which was U/C a few days ago will not be built. Most of TV news are giving very negative information about newly built and planned high-rises. People of Vilnius and Lithuania in delfi.lt and everywhere else share the same - very negative opinion about high-rises.

So, you can say welcome to new Helsinki of our region. ;)

Where did you get news that RC wont be built?

what This is horrible news (little devlish laugh) seriously, i dont think the opinion of some internet commentators can change much, most commentators in the internet are fkin 13 year olds saying negative about anything... in Estonia alot peopple (most actually) are opposed to highrises too...

@Edd

where did you get such info from? I haven't seen anything in the newspapers or TV. There are some talks about the new law and its possible negative effect to new constructions (well, it's a typical fuss going on about every law of such kind), but I wonder where did you hear about Registru centras and other projects in NCC?

About the law. I don't think it is too bad; the most important aspect of all great cities is density, not height. :)

And livelyness, good infrastructure, etc. of course. :)

Seriously, it's not the end of the world. Doesn't the law still make it possible to build tall buildings outside the inner city areas?

the law doesnt mean anything... the next city gov will dismiss it, just like in Tallinn there were regulations (well actually they are still in planning stage - possibility still is liivalaia maakri will be declared limitless) The law will go.. just like once there was some stupid medievel church law in Tallinn ... youll get over it !;)

And livelyness, good infrastructure, etc. of course. :)

Seriously, it's not the end of the world. Doesn't the law still make it possible to build tall buildings outside the inner city areas?

The law appearantly doesn't even talk about highrises or where they might or might not be built. Edd seems to be interpretating things in his own way here ;). The main problem with the new law is that other legal acts are not prepared yet which would give further instructions and indications about how points of the new law should work. So basically they are going to pass a law which is incomplete and thus cannot work normally.
There is a line which says that new constructions should be coordinated with protection of heritage including "visual pollution" while not describing what that "visual pollution" actually is. Now some heads of some construction companies claim that such unclearness create good environment for corruption and possibilities to interpretate the law in many diferent ways thus creating unclear situation which may affect any new project. They're suggesting to postpone the new law until all needed legal acts will be prepared.

I think this was the main topic. And I'm still wondering how Edd came to such conclusions he posted. :|

@Edd

where did you get such info from? I haven't seen anything in the newspapers or TV. There are some talks about the new law and its possible negative effect to new constructions (well, it's a typical fuss going on about every law of such kind), but I wonder where did you hear about Registru centras and other projects in NCC?
This is not just "ordinary law" - it will change pretty much and it will be active from this week. TV3 news said that 28 Registru center will not be built. In LTV, one of the main figures which worked with new law said: "some people say that high-rises are good, beautiful, etc., but there is UNESCO bla bla bla". Almost every TV channel showed some info about it and most in negative way towards high-rises. There is also something in tv5 todays news (but not so negative) - check it in their website (it's at the end of the news in section about economics).

the law doesnt mean anything... the next city gov will dismiss it, just like in Tallinn there were regulations (well actually they are still in planning stage - possibility still is liivalaia maakri will be declared limitless) The law will go.. just like once there was some stupid medievel church law in Tallinn ... youll get over it !;)
This law is not in municipal level - it'll affect all cities of Lithuania.

Edd, I think you're overstating some things here. So after all there are no any new official restrictions or limitations for the NCC or other areas. Just don't mislead other forumers by posting such info or ;)
Anyway we'll have to follow the situation.

The law appearantly doesn't even talk about highrises or where they might or might not be built. Edd seems to be interpretating things in his own way here ;).
John, please at first learn something about what is going on and then talk about how Edd interpret things. Ok? ;)

I'm just saying what I saw in different TV channels today - nothing more. And you are wrong - the law talks about exact permitted height of buildings in meters for some areas.

@Edd
It seems I've already read and saw the same info as you did and I still don't get why are you saying that the new law will limit constructions in the NCC. :?

Btw, the TV3 news seems to be confusing some things, they claim that "most of the most scandalous buildings" were designed by K.Pempe who actually designed only "Delfinas" and the Registru centras tower which according to the TV3 news "is stopped" and then showed how it would impact the skyline (they only repeated their old reportage which was published a few weeks ago). So perhaps things are not that bad. I'm not really tended to trust TV3 news.

@Edd
It seems I've already read and saw the same info as you did and I still don't get why are you saying that the new law will limit constructions in the NCC. :?The 28 Registru center will not be built because of new law. Is RC in NCC or not? Yes ofcourse it is in NCC. The law affects one building (in this case RC) or buildings in some area? Ofcourse buildings in some area. Additionally you can watch TV5 news where it is said that there are set strict height limits in meters for areas. We don't know yet for which areas and what are the height limits - but we'll surely learn about height limit in NCC, in the future (less than 28 floor RC).

Ofcourse I wrote what I heard in different TV news (TV3 maybe is a bit too much negative) and something might change - e.g. the law will not be released for now or smth. but when something like this will happen - I'll also write about such event in this thread.

Btw John, K. Pempe as far as I know is not the author of Registru Centras. He is the author of Delfinas and commercial building near "sporto rumai" called "Karaliaus Mindaugo apartamentai" or smth. And somewhy in TV3 news "Karaliaus Mindaugo apartamentai" (or smth. ;)) was showed as a high-rise - maybe that was the first proposal and TV3 just showed it because they don't know anything. :)

I totally agree with Oberleutnant: Well, it's better than nothing - be proud (like I *need* to say this) of what you already have Even now Vilnius high-rise district is great and ET is really high. Maybe this kind of ''encouraging'' is irritating, but this is my opinion.

It just could be more lively. Or maybe it is during warm seasons, when I was there it was too damn cold, so it's not a wonder that it was so empty and almost ''dead''. :)

@Edd

Now it's clear, I watched all the news. ;)
TV3 claimed that skyscrapers are being built in the old town and lots of other nonsenses so I'm not sure if it's ok to trust such "news". Though I'll try to find and read the law myself if it's already published (couldn't find it in www.lrs.lt yet). But I think we shouldn not mislead other forumers and rather post the factual information instead of trying to bring a sensation made of our interpretations. Don't you agree? ;)

Hm. From the side your situation looks unclear (Edd versus John). It would be strange if Registru Centras would be stopped - large investments rarely are stopped due to intangible reasons. Visual impact is intangible and immeasurable thing. Inventing and imposing new legislation after the start of construction... that might lead to some expensive court cases.

If I remember correnctly - Kvartalas planned to have one pretty high building as well.
I hope the best for you. Defeat of highrise boom in Lithuania may lead to increased anti-highrise moods here too.

Could it simply be that the Vilnius authorities have finally faced the fact that lowrise buildings are more efficient. I mean, this is the main reason in most places where there isn't that big lack of space. If you think about my hometown, Jyväskylä, we have reasonably tall buildings (and one or two in planning) because of the lack of space. The town can't spread out more because we're surrounded by hills. On the other hand, if you have unused plots lef in the downtown, there is no real need for highrise buldings even if the city is bigger than Jyväskylä. Lowrise buildings are more space-efficient, and that is why city-planners are ususally more fond of them.

But I think we shouldn not mislead other forumers and rather post the factual information instead of trying to bring a sensation made of our interpretations Don't you agree? ;)This information which I gave was not my own, far from the truth interpretation - I gave information which was given today in our media. And it is you who started to make interpretations about Edd that he is giving only his own far from truth interpretations. (I hope this sentence is clear :D)

John, I think that you just have to open the first page of this thread - the situation is similar: I gave some information and you said that it does not mean anything (who was right? eh?). Although back then it was not so clear as in this situation. Also, as I said before, if somethig will change I'll post new information here.

Oh, I almost forgot to say this: I hate you. :tongue:

Could it simply be that the Vilnius authorities have finally faced the fact that lowrise buildings are more efficient. I mean, this is the main reason in most places where there isn't that big lack of space. If you think about my hometown, Jyväskylä, we have reasonably tall buildings (and one or two in planning) because of the lack of space. The town can't spread out more because we're surrounded by hills. On the other hand, if you have unused plots lef in the downtown, there is no real need for highrise buldings even if the city is bigger than Jyväskylä. Lowrise buildings are more space-efficient, and that is why city-planners are ususally more fond of them.
No, I'll repeat it again - everything is not in municipal level - it's in state level. Municipality of Vilnius, investors, architects are protesting.

It would be strange if Registru Centras would be stopped - large investments rarely are stopped due to intangible reasons. Visual impact is intangible and immeasurable thing. Inventing and imposing new legislation after the start of construction... that might lead to some expensive court cases.There will be no court cases for simple reason - the project of Registru centras was not yet approved. :D

Too bad Vilnius isn't gonna become the skyscrapercapital of Europe in the near future :crazy:

Leaving John vs. Edd and the TV3 news aside let's just see what factual situation there is:

- The new law is about to be implemented on April 20th
- The law lacks of other legal acts which should have come with it and thus the law will not work effectivelly (it will leave many unclear situations).
- because of these reasons new projects are delaying to get approved because those who were supposed to coordinate new projects are now very busy preparing the legal acts for the new law. Companies also will be afraid to start new projects because they don't know how the missing points of the law might be interpretated without aditional legal acts.
- Because of these reasons many new projects might be delayed until all needed additional acts are prepared (this should happen in a few months)
- Business companies are suggesting to postpone the new law until all needed legal acts will get prepared and the law will work as it's supposed to not leaving any unclearness.

So I hope I'm clear enough now.

Now can we judge about if ET will remain "by far the tallest" or if Center of registers will be cancelled or... etc. from this information (and this is what all the fuss is about today)?

OMG... they really were building Registry Centras without approvals in the very center of capital city???? I would understand if they prepare construction site - but here were pictures where they make fundaments! It has to end up with some investigations and ruined careers. I also understood that developer of Registry Centras is state institution... how they expected to survive regular auditing with such a large unauthorised construction on-going? People sometimes are just crazy. It is impossible to repair toilets in state institutions without permits and here some guys build skyscraper...
- - -
And - there should be painful court cases. Even if Vilnius has not permitted this construction, there were construction companies engaged for works. They will have loss and will start looking - who will cover it. It will reach state or municipal institutions anyway.

OK, John explained it a little for me :) Let's wait again. And hope that this wawe of highrise hate will not reach Riga.

It's funny - what could be the name of the new law? "About the limiting of the height of buildings in Lithuania. Just because." ??? :)

@John: Ok, if you want we can ignore TV3 but other sources are talking to the same direction - the area around old town which is preserved and has height, etc. limits, expanded (NCC is not so far from old town) and everyone are talking about visual affect of new constructions in zones which surround old town. About acts - it was said that by the day when the law will be released there will be also 20 most important acts released who'll make the law work well. And yes, the new projects will be stopped for some time until investors will learn the new rules.

Isn't the law about saving heritage? That means not all highrises are affected ;)

@Gatis Actually they got a permit for preparation works and tower wasn't started, thus everything is legal ;)

@Gatis

The detailed plan was approved but there was no permission of construction given yet(this is not the same as approving). According to a press article (again, I dunno if we can trust it considering how unreliable our media is) the construction was stopped due to cold weather in winter months and will resume shortly.

Btw, quite a similar situation was with Saules Akmens, it was being built without a permission for quite a while.

@John: Ok, if you want we can ignore TV3 but other sources are talking to the same direction - the area around old town which is preserved and has height, etc. limits expanded (NCC is not so far from old town) and everyone are talking about visual affect of new constructions in zones which surround old town. About acts - it was said that by the day when the law will be released there will be also 20 most important acts released who'll make the law work well. And yes, the new projects will be stopped for some time until investors will learn the new rules.


I'd be tended to "ignore" the TV3 news since it's publishing such contradicting facts (e,g, "skyscrapers in the old town" etc.). It seems TV3 was just "hunting" the audience trying to make it a sensation for uneducated people (corrupted mayor, skyscraper constructions in the old town etc.). And I don't believe you're also taking TV3 news seriously. So it's kinda wrong to present such "news" as a fact (what you did). This is my point. For now let's just stick to actual information and see how situation regarding the new law develops. Btw, I still didn't find this law in the database, it would be very interesting to see it.

How wasn't started? They were laying concrete. As far as I understand - preparation means removal of old buildings, groundwork, installation of construction infrastructure. Sometimes pile driving is considered to be preparation too - when piles awert damage to nearby buildings or prevent entering of groundwater.
But if there are driven piles for the building itself and started laying of concrete - it is construction already...

OK, I calm down. The start of Saules akmens really was enormous scandal here too... Hope, this will not repeat anymore.

They have a permit for preparation works, not construction ;) Laying concrete for basement is also included

But if there are driven piles for the building itself and started laying of concrete - it is construction already...
No, it was not done so yet.

hehe, im just so glad tallinn has passed this "issue" several times now ;)

If they won't let us build taller we will build broader !

I'm already concidering a choice to move to Riga or Tallinn ;) (j/k)

Any news?

Any news?

The law was implemented as it was supposed to. The law itself doen't provide any exact info regarding highrise buildings in NCC as I alkready mentioned before. However some protectors of geritage (not official ones but rather some separate groups) are attempting to do everything to stop "destruction" of the historic skyline of Vilnius and say that there should be no skyscrapers in Vilnius. But this is a rather radical opinion and neither city officials nor official Heritage protection agencies don't support it. However there were some rumors that the Heritage protection department (official institution) is suggesting to limit the height of new highrises in NCC to 22 floors (but that's only a rumor and nobody knows if such a suggestion would be accepted).
One more point is the "protection zone" of the old town of Vilnius which also occupies part of the NCC and some of the new highrises are actually located on it (at least it's claimed so, I haven't seen any actual info regarding this). However it's again unclear if this means that highrise buildings should be limited there or not, some suggest to decrease the protection zone, some suggest to ban highrises at all.
All in all there's no any clear solution at the moment and everything looks too messy so perhaps the best thing is to wait and see what's going to happen.

it is only rumors nothing, specific and determined isn't on the table for now.
we will se in the near future how things will be going

i doubt very much that they(kvad, heritage protection departaments) will somehow ban the construction of highrises, but i believe they will be limiting the floors and highs of the new buildings

and new news 55% of the asked people said that highrises in NMC are beautiful and they decorate our capital :)

OK. Riga and Vilnius many times are more similar than we can imagine. In Riga the planned Kliversala-Kipsala highrise district is also partly in UNESCO monument buffer zone. F.e. the planned Akropolis highrises are outside this zone but the planned Da Vinci - inside. At the moment there has been reached a kind of silent agreement that highrises in this place don't harm but one day this can change. I hope that detailed plans by this moment would be approved - if we would go this far, then it is very hard to stop the things.