The Berlin City Palace (Stadtschloss in German) will be (partly) reconstructed.

Its site marked the historical core of the German capital, being the root for the city's development. After considerable damage in World War 2, it still could have been rebuilt - but the GDR government of East Berlin decided to blow it up in 1950. This act of crime was followed by a huge parade ground for the GDR authorities - and in 1976, the Palace of the Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palast_der_Republik) (Palast der Republik) was built on its site. In 2008, the demolition of this historical hoax was finally finished. You can comprehend the whole process until today at this thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=307542).

Since reunification in 1990, there were various initiatives coming up for the reconstruction of the Berlin Castle. In 2002, the German parliament (Bundestag) made the decision to partly rebuild the Palace complex as the new Humboldt-Forum.
This concept is intended as a combination of a museum and a venue for events. The museum will show non-European exhibits & art, as a counterpart to the Museum Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_Island), which represents European history. So altogether, this part of Berlin will establish a prominent place of world culture.

The site of the Berlin City Palace (in light red) laid over the city's urban layout of today:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Karte_berlin_stadtschloss.png/595px-Karte_berlin_stadtschloss.png
Source: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Karte_berlin_stadtschloss.png?uselang=de


An aerial view of the complex with the GDR "Palace of the Republic" still occupying the site:
http://i51.tinypic.com/rayrrn.jpg
http://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article1616754/Erinnerung-an-Palast-der-Republik-verblasst.html

Comparison: A visualisation of the "Humboldt-Forum", aerial view
http://i52.tinypic.com/5x39dg.jpg
http://www.welt.de/kultur/article7879733/Wiederaufbau-des-Berliner-Stadtschlosses-gefaehrdet.html

Wonderful news :cheers: Are there any other plans to rebuilt other old buildings in Berlin?

Berlin City Palace before WW2:


With the national memorial (dedicated to Emperor Wilhelm I) in front of it:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Berlin_Nationaldenkmal_Kaiser_Wilhelm_mit_Schloss_1900.jpg/800px-Berlin_Nationaldenkmal_Kaiser_Wilhelm_mit_Schloss_1900.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Berlin_Nationaldenkmal_Kaiser_Wilhelm_mit_Schloss_1900.jpg?uselang=de

As seen from Lustgarten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lustgarten) in 1913:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/Lustgarten%2C_1913.jpg/800px-Lustgarten%2C_1913.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lustgarten,_1913.jpg

Postcard of the City Palace and the Berlin Cathedral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Cathedral) (which wasn't reconstructed according to its former looks, btw):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Dom_und_Stadtschloss%2C_Berlin_1900.png/800px-Dom_und_Stadtschloss%2C_Berlin_1900.png
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dom_und_Stadtschloss,_Berlin_1900.png

Aerial view of the Berlin Palace and the former dense urban old town core of the city (called Alt-Berlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-Berlin) and Cölln (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%B6lln)), which today mostly is a huge lawn (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:View_of_Marx-Engels-Forum_from_the_Berlin_TV_tower.jpg):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Berlin_stadtansicht_mit_schloss_1891.jpg/800px-Berlin_stadtansicht_mit_schloss_1891.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Berlin_stadtansicht_mit_schloss_1891.jpg

The east facade of the Berlin Palace towards the river Spree (with Marx-Engels-Forum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx-Engels-Forum) and the TV tower sitting behind today). In the current concept, the reconstruction of this multi-era facade is not scheduled.
Instead, there will be a "modern" facade made by architect Francesco Stella which I'll show later.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Kaiser_Wilhelm-Br%C3%BCcke-Berlin.jpg/800px-Kaiser_Wilhelm-Br%C3%BCcke-Berlin.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kaiser_Wilhelm-Br%C3%BCcke-Berlin.jpg

A look towards the other direction, down the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Bridge to St. Mary's Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mary%27s_Church,_Berlin), in 1900:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Berlin_Kaiser_Wilhelm_Bruecke_1900.jpg/798px-Berlin_Kaiser_Wilhelm_Bruecke_1900.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Berlin_Kaiser_Wilhelm_Bruecke_1900.jpg

The east facade again as seen from the river Spree with the original look of the cathedral (Berliner Dom):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1998-014-24A%2C_Berlin%2C_Stadtschloss_%28Spreeseite%29%2C_Berliner_Dom.jpg/758px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1998-014-24A%2C_Berlin%2C_Stadtschloss_%28Spreeseite%29%2C_Berliner_Dom.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1998-014-24A,_Berlin,_Stadtschloss_(Spreeseite),_Berliner_Dom.jpg

"Round corner" (there still is a chance this might get rebuilt):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1977-061-26%2C_Berlin%2C_Kurf%C3%BCrstenbr%C3%BCcke%2C_Schloss_und_Dom.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1977-061-26,_Berlin,_Kurf%C3%BCrstenbr%C3%BCcke,_Schloss_und_Dom.jpg

Additional aerial views of the Palace, Cathedral and the dense urban old town core before WW2:
Photochrom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photochrom) view from 1920
http://i51.tinypic.com/11v3d7b.jpg
http://www.berliner-historische-mitte.de/ (Really interesting organisation that intends to rebuild Berlin old town parts - similar to Dresden Neumarkt society. Luckily re-activated since some time, please feel free to support them! :))

Old Berlin aerial
http://i52.tinypic.com/mcb5g2.jpg
full resolution here (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=p1090423fbag.jpg), shown by unify (APH Forum (http://www.architekturforum.net/))

The Spree island in Nazi times
http://i54.tinypic.com/11mc2l3.jpg
Full res (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=postkarten-lustgartenvhmn.jpg), credit to unify (APH forum)

Was there any particular reason why this Palace received considerable damage from Allied bombing during WW2? BTW, they should also rebuild the stunning Wilhelm Memorial.

It didn't receive any more damage than the rest of Berlin.

You can see the damage to the east façade compared to the Marienviertel on the right of these comparison pictures originally posted on the Architectura Pro Homine (http://architekturforum.net/index.php?page=Thread&postID=99749):
Before the War:
http://www.abload.de/img/mv19254cs2.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=mv19254cs2.jpg)
After:
http://www.abload.de/img/mv1945hcpk.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=mv1945hcpk.jpg)

The main reason for the subsequent demolition by the communist East Germany (Pictures (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Demolition_of_the_Stadtschloss_Berlin)) was it's status as a symbol for an unwanted (and failed) system (the monarchy) right in the centre of it's new and modern (communist) capital.

Ironically the demolition of the palace of the republic (picture in a better state (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-Z0602-323,_Berlin,_Palast_der_Republik,_Fernsehturm.jpg), and another one from the east (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-1987-0527-010,_Berlin,_Marx-Engels-Forum,_Dom,_Palast_der_Republik.jpg)) on this very spot had pretty much the exact same reasons. It was a symbol of the communist past of East Germany in the centre of the new All-German capital.
(The official reason was it's asbestos contamination, but almost every building from the 70ies has this problem. One of the more prominent examples is the ICC-Building (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WestendMessedamm.JPG), opened 1979 in the former west of Berlin, and nobody is going to demolish that one.)

I can't wait to see the Schloss rebuilt. Of course it's sad that they are not rebuilding the Palace in a 100% accurate way (that eastern facade will surely look awful), but at least from Unter den Linden people will get impressed with the beauty of the Stadtschloss. Also, the PdR didn't fit the location, in the middle of Berlin historic centre, as the City Palace did.

Are there any plans to reconstruct the Monbijou Palace? It would be too a great addition to Berlin cityscape, especially in the architectural environment around Museum Island.

Final approval for the Humboldt-Forum! That's the GO for the Berlin palace to come back!

Even if it's not what the palace was once.

German article (google translate):

Politicians give final OK for city-castle building (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&hl=de&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/0,1518,772721,00.html&usg=ALkJrhi9C44nq_99trcfXbetVZehS6ERsQ)

Fantastisch! :)

Was there any particular reason why this Palace received considerable damage from Allied bombing during WW2? BTW, they should also rebuild the stunning Wilhelm Memorial.


Churchill's bombing war was based on the strategy to destroy EVERYTHING regardless of its historic and cultural value or lack of military importance. With this directive, the bombers carpeted the entire nation with incendiary bombs, missing very little in the top 100 population centers. The Stadt Schloss was simply part of the victim list.

Interestingly, George VI of Great Britain nearly begged the Royal Air Force to spare the royal palace in Hannover due to its historic link to the British royal family, but even that did not deter the bombs from destroying that grest building as well.

Much of what was left after WWII could have been rebuilt, but the effort to do so would have cost much more money, time, and resources than were available in the post WWII 10-20 years. And, the serious need for fast infrastructure was a much higher priority than history.

Churchill's bombing war was based on the strategy to destroy EVERYTHING regardless of its historic and cultural value or lack of military importance. With this directive, the bombers carpeted the entire nation with incendiary bombs, missing very little in the top 100 population centers. The Stadt Schloss was simply part of the victim list.

Interestingly, George VI of Great Britain nearly begged the Royal Air Force to spare the royal palace in Hannover due to its historic link to the British royal family, but even that did not deter the bombs from destroying that grest building as well.

Much of what was left after WWII could have been rebuilt, but the effort to do so would have cost much more money, time, and resources than were available in the post WWII 10-20 years. And, the serious need for fast infrastructure was a much higher priority than history.

Well, some people say Churchill was a war criminal.....Although, that's for one part true and one part false. Churchill warned with bombings on German cities that they repeat the bombings on other German cities if the Nazi's attacked England, and the bombings were also an revenge of what the Nazi's did with their Blitzes on England.

Dresden was by far a war crime. Killing nearly 35,000 people and destroying the whole innercity. The good news about Dresden is, that Germany is reconstructing the Innenstadt again :banana:

Never forget, everything is possible, even the most impossible is possible

I'm surprised why so much people prefer this reconstruction instead of building something new there. The palace is a symbol for king and kaiser. That's an anachronism and its going to be some kind of museum for museum island anyway, so why that illusion
of something old there?

And: this thing will cost over 600 mio. €. (I guess no one really believes in the 590 mio. it is said to cost. Such buildings always get more expensive :D) I guess that amount of money could have been invested better..

God, Germanys financial situation can't be that bad if we can afford that.. :dunno:

very nice

I'm surprised why so much people prefer this reconstruction instead of building something new there.
The baroque facade will cost just around 80 mln EUR, which is peanuts for the value of the cityscape that gets restored there and compared with useless crap like extraordinary pensions for our "civil servants". Besides the sum for the reconstructioned parts being donated by people like you and me, or enterprises. So a modern museum at this location would cost you as a tax payer just the same. And now show me only ONE modern design for this location that doesn't fail. There was an extensive competition (which wasn't in need imho, you can't come up with something better than the reconstruction there). But nothing REMOTELY qualitative for this central location next to the Dom and on museum island turned out of it. So the logical conclusion is: There's no other way to do it than to reconstruct.

Just imagine the buildings around Bebelplatz being all modern, they are reconstructions.
Or Gendarmenmarkt. Or Prinzipalmarkt in Münster. Or many parts of Rothenburg. The Würzburg Residenz. Montecassino. Warsaw old town. Gosh, even the famous Venice Campanile is a reconstruction...

People, get finally used to it! Reconstructions are a natural part of construction culture.
They are way older than all the modernist crap, which is in itself completely old fashioned, since it's a style that barely changed for 80 years now.

There's nothing more modern than creating urbanity through partioned buildings that are naturally beauty in proportion, material and detail. They don't always have to be reconstructions, but many of them were great treasuries of art and mancraft and it's a pleasure to have them. Everyone who lives in any original European old town (like me atm) will agree to that.

Reconstruction of Germany is great.

Such a great post and interesting comments. I found this post while surfing the web for Thanks for sharing this article.
These kind of post are always inspiring and I prefer to read quality content so I happy to find many good point here in the post, writing is simply great.

Dresden was by far a war crime. Killing nearly 35,000 people and destroying the whole innercity. The good news about Dresden is, that Germany is reconstructing the Innenstadt again :banana:
[/B]

Dresden was not a war crime... it was a victim of a natural phenomena (firestorm) caused by high winds.

Could have happened in any city.

Hamburg actually suffered a worse fire-storm and subsequent carnage than Dresden, but is not as published.

Sure, and this firestorm was caused by the "natural phenomena" of Lancaster bombers.


Whatever. NO WAR DISCUSSIONS or anything related in this thread! I won't tolerate them, delete posts and ban/brig people if needed.

FFS stop living in the past and look to the future!!!!! yes it was tragic what happened but things have moved on and it's 2011 not 1939 anymore." It will look great when rebuilt "

FFS stop living in the past and look to the future!!!!! yes it was tragic what happened but things have moved on and it's 2011 not 1939 anymore." It will look great when rebuilt "

Preserving and rebuilding history, particularly those aspects of history which were tragcially and unnecessarily lost, is not the 'living in the past' mental problem you seem to align it with. Looking to the future is fine if the future holds things better than history has delivered. In the case of architectural and city planning jewels, the modernist buildings and neighborhoods hold very little long term value or staying power. Far more people jam the roads to see and photograph the Frauenkirche in Dresden than the Sony building in Berlin.

I love historic architecture and also love the modern!! all i meant was that the people where just going on and on about the war and not concentrating on the rebuilding of this beautiful building. "It will be a great assett to the city of Berlin"

How well are the buildiong in Dresden reconstructed? What I mean is do they look like they used to are they washed down because the masonry was to complicated and stuff like that.

You can see the progress of Dresden reconstruction project here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=250017&pp=20&page=1000

Here is a detailed ground view of the Stadtschloss as it was before:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2637/4200212186_4c33bced9c_b.jpg
(source (http://www.flickr.com/photos/junsuzu/4200212186/in/photostream/))

Some past views:

First courtyard (Eosanderhof):
http://media.kunst-fuer-alle.de/img/41/g/41_00056557.jpg
(source (http://www.kunst-fuer-alle.de/))

Second courtyard (Schlüterhof) Both paintings are by Eduard Gaertner.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Stadtschloss_Berlin%2C_Schlueterhof%2C_Gaertner%2C_1830.jpg/800px-Stadtschloss_Berlin%2C_Schlueterhof%2C_Gaertner%2C_1830.jpg
(source (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stadtschloss_Berlin,_Schlueterhof,_Gaertner,_1830.jpg))

How it would look when finished:


http://www.bz-berlin.de/multimedia/archive/00264/schloss-berlin_2641716.jpg
(source (http://www.bz-berlin.de/))

Following pictures from Welt Online (http://www.welt.de/)

From Unter den Linden
http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/01407/bs_28_08_DW_Kultur_1407475s.jpg

Schlüterhof
http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/00941/statdtschloss20_dra_941780a.jpg

Aerial view
http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/01284/StadtschlossDraufs_1284077s.jpg

From north, with Stella's facade. (comparison) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Kaiser_Wilhelm-Br%C3%BCcke-Berlin.jpg)
http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/01284/StadtschlossDrauss_1284079s.jpg

Ground view
http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/00941/statdtschloss20_eg__941783a.jpg

Full set of pictures: http://www.welt.de/kultur/article4980591/Franco-Stellas-ueberarbeitete-Plaene.html

Pretty Castle!
Oh, pinnacle of Baroque!
Long missed
And not forgotten
Need is urgent
Does it matter?

Shine, you will!
Utterly bright
Curious the world
Kisses are thine
Shine!

I just hope they're gonna rebuild the dome.

Again, NO WAR DISCUSSIONS or anything else unrelated to the Humboldt-Forum project in here!
I'll delete the posts and ban/brig people if necessary. Cordial thanks for noticing.

I still can't understand why anyone would think having one shitty postmodern side would ever be a good idea.

I can't wait to see it :D

I still can't understand why anyone would think having one shitty postmodern side would ever be a good idea.

It is hard to comprehend. No integreation whatsoever with the other three sides. I assume it's an architect's idea to link the interior with the exterior.

Will any of the former grand rooms be recreated such as the White Hall, Throne Room and grand staircase?

Current status:

http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-95950-galleryV9-jgif.jpg
(from Spiegel Online (http://www.spiegel.de))

It is hard to comprehend. No integreation whatsoever with the other three sides. I assume it's an architect's idea to link the interior with the exterior.

Will any of the former grand rooms be recreated such as the White Hall, Throne Room and grand staircase?

I hope so, although according to the ground view posted above, the interior wil be all-modern. What a pity.

really great project.. but i like the current situation, too.

i like the current situation open space looks great.

I hope so, although according to the ground view posted above, the interior wil be all-modern. What a pity.


That is my fear; sure seems as if none of the interior will be rebuilt. It is silly to make the effort of restoration on the exterior and fail to at least carry that theme into the main entry or some other key area(s) in order to reflect the history and give a reason why the exterior is what it is. The exterior alone will be out of context if nothing on the inside serves to support the restoration.

The modern facade look rather decent. I'm more of a purist when it comes to rebuilding, and restoration projects but I think it looks rather nice. I just wish Berlin would make more of an effort at rebuilding the Alexanderplatz, the museum island looks so out of place next to the giant radio tower.

That is my fear; sure seems as if none of the interior will be rebuilt. It is silly to make the effort of restoration on the exterior and fail to at least carry that theme into the main entry or some other key area(s) in order to reflect the history and give a reason why the exterior is what it is. The exterior alone will be out of context if nothing on the inside serves to support the restoration.

Yes, that's a shame, since the interior by Schlüter and Eosander von Göthe was a baroque masterpiece and is well documented.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6884/schloss01.jpg

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2729/schloss02.jpg

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/7965/schloss03.jpg

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/5140/schloss04.jpg
source (http://www.bildindex.de)

A masterpiece indeed. Thanks for the detailed images. Beautiful. Here is a photo of the Knights Hall in former times.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/eurochief/hohenzollernhall.jpg

^^
That is the Grafensaal (Duke's hall) of Burg Hohenzollern. It's a photography of very recent times and the depicted room ist still there.

Here, the Rittersaal:

http://www.historisches-stadtschloss.de/cms/upload/neuesschloss/20101001_Rittersaal.jpg
(Historisches Stadtschloss (http://www.historisches-stadtschloss.de/))

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Rittersaal_%28Schl%C3%BCter%29.jpg/460px-Rittersaal_%28Schl%C3%BCter%29.jpg
(Commons (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rittersaal_%28Schl%C3%BCter%29.jpg)) (Although I have my doubts regarding this one)

http://www.morgenpost.de/multimedia/archive/00243/b_rittersaal_BM_Ber_243570b.jpg
(Berliner Morgenpost (http://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article988164/Diese_Stadtschloss_Entwuerfe_sind_es_nicht_geworden.html))

Here are two images from the model inside the "Humboldt box"

Hier mal ein Bild des Modells aus dem Humboldtbox. Das Modell sieht mir aufgehuebscht aus verglichen mit dem Modell aus der Ausstellung beim Hausvogteiplatz. Vielleicht haben sie auch einfach nur mal Staub gewischt:

http://www.abload.de/img/dsc008837jff.jpg

Bald...

http://www.abload.de/img/p1100606_22jii.jpg

(eigenes Bild)

Source: DAF (http://www.deutsches-architektur-forum.de/forum/showthread.php?p=306630#post306630)

Great pictures!

The German text with the model-photo above is only somewhat clear; can someone translate accurately? Where is this model?

That model is inside the Humboldt-Box (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humboldt-Box) on the castle site.

PhilippK just mentioned that it looked renovated to him, compared to the state of the model that could be seen at an exhibition inside the building of the castle foundation at Hausvogteiplatz (a square just around the corner).

What is the new Stadtschloss gonna be used for again once it is built?

^^

(...) The new building will contain the following:

* Quality Shops (probably more at the higher end of the market, which is quite fitting for a building of this design
* Restaurants
* A museum
* A Business Center
* Rooms for corporate "special events" and functions

http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/00941/statdtschloss20_eg__941783a.jpg
(source: welt.de)

Thank you GFM!


Another historical illustration of the Berlin Castle, showing the "round corner" at the river Spree facade Schlüter created.
I'm still not sure whether this will make its way into the Humboldt-Forum project.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/5/5b/BerlinSchloss.jpg/800px-BerlinSchloss.jpg
Source: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:BerlinSchloss.jpg

^^
No, it won't. If you' ve seen the most recent plans, you'll notice that there won't be a clean "cut" between the reconstruction and the modern facade anymore. The reconstructed facade now kind of fades into the modern part. Thus there is no place for that round corner, as it would create a cut.

http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/01284/StadtschlossDrauss_1284079s.jpg

You see what I mean? I'm pretty sure this also applies for the other facade. None of the plans ever featured a rounded corner...

I prefered the clean cut between the reconstructed part and the modern part, as it was initially planned, MUCH more. :(
And to think that the cladding of the modern wing now will be concrete...

Agreed. I think they should better leave out the East / Spree facade and make it an open building towards the river for now. Rather than having this modernist crap. Someday they could make an effort to also reconstruct this side of the castle then. The way it's planned for now it's going to look ridiculous. Not much of a surprise, only few people are willing to donate for this bastard... :|

If I had the authority, I would have build a fourth Baroque facade (copying the others) but adding arcades along the river Spree. The perfect place for Berlin's grandest and finest cafe or restaurant. But today's spirit of Berlin isn't grand or refined at all...

Well, not that unrealistic after all. Didn't the architect Schlüter intend to reshape and "baroquicise" the East facade as well? I'd love to see those plans. Does anyone know if there any?

In the end, they'd probably have reconstructed this facade if it was Baroque as well.
But I think it should be rebuilt just the way it was before destruction, as the partly renaissance and even older Spree facade was a remarkable heritage of Berlin's and the Castle's history. In addition, I think the donation organization (Stadtschlossverein) made the failure of not proposing this facade as part of the reconstruction, showing it in renderings etc. Things would look different then I guess.

I'm still trying to explain myself what is so wrong in the minds of today architects. They always have to ruin a good idea by adding modernist rubbish.

This also goes for the new version of Eosander's courtyard, the 'Agora':

http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/00941/statdtschloss20_ago_941786s.jpg
(source: welt.de)

P.S. Is there any thread about the Potsdam Stadtschloss? I'd like to know.

^^ I agree 100%. I just hope once it's complete that it ends up looking better than what I see in the renderings! Although I wont hold my breath!

P.S. Is there any thread about the Potsdam Stadtschloss? I'd like to know.

We have this thread on the topic :) http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=552007

No, it won't. If you' ve seen the most recent plans, you'll notice that there won't be a clean "cut" between the reconstruction and the modern facade anymore. The reconstructed facade now kind of fades into the modern part. Thus there is no place for that round corner, as it would create a cut.

http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/01284/StadtschlossDrauss_1284079s.jpg

You see what I mean? I'm pretty sure this also applies for the other facade. None of the plans ever featured a rounded corner...

I prefered the clean cut between the reconstructed part and the modern part, as it was initially planned, MUCH more. :(
And to think that the cladding of the modern wing now will be concrete...

Wow, the modern facade doesn't really compliment the reconstructed part at all.

Even something super modern (akin to the dome atop the Reichstag) would look better.

http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/00941/statdtschloss20_ago_941786s.jpg

Whats wrong with this? Spacious, bright and minimal...quite stunning really.

I think the roof is necessary here, even if people do not like the mix of modern and old. The roofed yard is needed for space.

There ain't much of a problem with this for me. As I said, the main issue is the modern exterior facade (http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/01284/StadtschlossDrauss_1284079s.jpg) towards the river Spree. It's a disgrace to this to the grand old City Palace.

True the exterior looks dull, they should have gone for deconstructivism instead. :)

I agree, the 3 parts historical, one part modern facade is not very appealing.

I love that they are rebuilding the Stadt Schloss, but I'm disappointed at the modern block facing the Spree. I would rather they left that wall out and expose the 2nd inner courtyard to the Spree, try to integrate the Spree with the building a bit more than a bland wall.....

the starkness of the modern Spree-side of the new building with its wall-like characteristics will probably emerge as a joke being referred to as the second coming of the Berlin Wall...out of place, unattractive, inhibiting, characterless, and literally a barrier to what was once a grand place.

At the moment I am working on an initiative against the modernist east facade of the City Palace.
I'll let you all know when it's finished so you can drop in.

the starkness of the modern Spree-side of the new building with its wall-like characteristics will probably emerge as a joke being referred to as the second coming of the Berlin Wall...out of place, unattractive, inhibiting, characterless, and literally a barrier to what was once a grand place.

+1

I found this when looking for color pictures of the Stadtschloss for a new 3D I'm making. The video is made of photos showing the history of this emblematic building and recreations of the rebuilt palace as well.

vdX_YP9_O3g

Another restoration project:

Koenigsberg

http://www.altstadt.ru/

Now it's +2.

the starkness of the modern Spree-side of the new building with its wall-like characteristics will probably emerge as a joke being referred to as the second coming of the Berlin Wall...out of place, unattractive, inhibiting, characterless, and literally a barrier to what was once a grand place.

And the same design will be applied to the western façade of the Schlüterhof (which by the way, was also Renaissance).

Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
the starkness of the modern Spree-side of the new building with its wall-like characteristics will probably emerge as a joke being referred to as the second coming of the Berlin Wall...out of place, unattractive, inhibiting, characterless, and literally a barrier to what was once a grand place.

so a prefect architectural representative of the Berlin Republic...

... whereas the architecture of the Bonn Republic was characterized by a dull colorless brutalism. What does this tell us about West Germany? :dunno:

A fascinating project. I must go back to Berlin and see how the city looks now having last seen it in 1991.

The idea of recreating three sides of a traditional building and creating a modernist fourth side does seem a rather laboured point by the architect and I guess that Berliners will see this as a money-saving ploy rather than an architectural statement (maybe it is, I don't know) but you can see the logic behind it.

Had the building been repaired during the years following WWII then there would be little argument in reconstructing it as near to the original as possible. However, to have a break of well over half a century between the destruction of the original and the reconstruction means that the site has accumulated a lot of history in the intervening years - not least being a headquarters building for the German Democratic Republic.

Whatever you think of that era, it was one of the most important in German and European history and can't just be erased from history. I guess that in designing the fourth facade in this way, the architect is attempting to recall the monolithic buildings of the communist era.

That history has already been erased. At least in that particular location. There is just a green grassland that one has to deal with.

Regarding the one modern facade: the original building had some kind of appendix at that location,
because the building was grown over centuries, but there was no reason to reconstruct such a appendix.
So there was no facade worth of beeing reconstructed on that side of the building.
I think not to fake a historism facade there was a good idea.


http://h5.abload.de/img/dsc008837jff.jpg

http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/01284/StadtschlossDrauss_1284079s.jpg

That history has already been erased. At least in that particular location. There is just a green grassland that one has to deal with.

Regarding the one modern facade: the original building had some kind of appendix at that location,
because the building was grown over centuries, but there was no reason to reconstruct such a appendix.
So there was no facade worth of beeing reconstructed on that side of the building.
I think not to fake a historism facade there was a good idea.

In fact, what you call an "appendix" was, along with the transverse wing between Schlosshöfen I and II, the essential part of this palace before Schlüter's project of 1699-1706. It cointained the living quarters of King Frederick I, the Schlossapotheke, the Braunschweig and Elector's galeries, the chapel and others, at a time in which the other wings were little more than simple corridors.

That history has already been erased. At least in that particular location. There is just a green grassland that one has to deal with.

Regarding the one modern facade: the original building had some kind of appendix at that location,
because the building was grown over centuries, but there was no reason to reconstruct such a appendix.
So there was no facade worth of beeing reconstructed on that side of the building.
I think not to fake a historism facade there was a good idea.

It is an interesting argument, although it does seem from the model that there was an original facade there before the 'appendix' was added. That begs the question - do you want to restore the building to how it originally looked or how it looked just prior to being destroyed.

What I mean by 'erasing something from history' though goes further than just demolishing a building. If you see a large patch of grass in the centre of a city, you are likely to ask 'what used to be there?' However, if you see a building that to all appearances looks like it was built in the 18c, to the uninitiated it is going to look as if that is how things always have been.

Having first visited Berlin just two years before the wall came down, I'm a bit surprised that so little of it now remains and yet it shaped the history of the post-war era and its fall heralded the end of the communist era. Maybe the truth is that Berlin wants to forget about its twentieth century history and go back to an era that it feels more comfortable with.

to bad they didn’t go for a taller building. they should have asked someone like zaha hadid to design a modern style palace with a shopping mall in it, perhaps with a nice tower on top of it. everyone would love that. just like frankfurt did, zeil galery should be a example for berlin

^^
You've got to be kidding me, A SHOPPING MALL?! In the historical and cultural core of what today is Berlin? Only the most uneducated hillbillies would love that.

He's obviously joking. ;)

But a shopping mall isn't that far fetched, looking at Braunschweig or the initial plans to make the Berlin Palace a commercial one too. Perhaps we would have got a complete reconstruction that way.

It is an interesting argument, although it does seem from the model that there was an original facade there before the 'appendix' was added. That begs the question - do you want to restore the building to how it originally looked or how it looked just prior to being destroyed.

What I mean by 'erasing something from history' though goes further than just demolishing a building. If you see a large patch of grass in the centre of a city, you are likely to ask 'what used to be there?' However, if you see a building that to all appearances looks like it was built in the 18c, to the uninitiated it is going to look as if that is how things always have been.

Having first visited Berlin just two years before the wall came down, I'm a bit surprised that so little of it now remains and yet it shaped the history of the post-war era and its fall heralded the end of the communist era. Maybe the truth is that Berlin wants to forget about its twentieth century history and go back to an era that it feels more comfortable with.

Good points. But one must also not loose site of the fact that in 1945 "so little of it (the city)" remained anyway. The post war/pre wall-coming-down era was one of flux and haphazard building to accomodate basic needs and political agendas. The new Berlin is both an attempt to sober up from the 1945-1990 period and get back on track, even though quite often the "track" has taken the city in some new diretions. Case in point--the new Lehter Bahnhof. It is a fabulous, modern transportation hub taht looks great and fits in its location. Had it been built closer to the Schloss and museum island, it would have been a scar on the city scape (like the 4th wall of the schloss is going to appear).

^

I first went to Berlin in 1987 and I thought that it was a fantastic place - very lively and maybe it is that haphazard nature of the city that is so appealing (as I said, I haven't been there for almost twenty years now so I don't know what I make of it nowadays).

I would understand Berliners wanting to reconstruct the city after the trauma of the war and the wall era but it is that turbulent history that has made the city what it is today. I'm sure that, if I lived in Berlin, I would want to see the Humbolt Forum go ahead and I would have some trepidations about that 'fourth wall'.

What is the point of that modern-looking side of the rebuilt City Palace and what does the facade of that side represent? Should have made that side's facade like the three other sides instead of just simplifying the facade.

What is the point of that modern-looking side of the rebuilt City Palace and what does the facade of that side represent?
It's to satisfy the modernists who oppose the complete reconstruction ;)

^^Why do people oppose the complete reconstruction of the city palace?

^^Why do people oppose the complete reconstruction of the city palace?

It depends. If it comes to politics, well, some people would say that it would be 'a representation of imperialist Germany rising again', 'a move to erase GDR from German history', 'the victory of capitalism', 'validation of the imperialist terror', etcetera, etcetera.

Some people will quote the economical situation in the country, and that such a project would mean a rise on taxes. Others would say that a complete (external) reconstruction would be too "kitsch" or would look fake.

Of course it will look fake if they built that modernist façade instead of a faithful reconstruction.

(...) perhaps with a nice tower on top of it. everyone would love that. just like frankfurt did, zeil galery should be a example for berlin

Did you know there was a plan to add a 100-meter tower above Portal III? :lol:

http://berliner-schloss.de/wp-content/uploads/20030202190455.jpg
(Förderverein Berliner Schloss e.V. (http://berliner-schloss.de/))

how was the numbering of the portals organized? Portal III was the main entrance on the west, correct?

^^ Exactly. If seen from above, the numbering would be clockwise:

- Portal I was the one made by Schlüter close to the Lange Brücke, facing the Neuer Marstall and correspondent to the southern portal of Schlosshof II.
- Eosander's Portal II was at the northern end of the Breite Straße, and was a copy of Portal I that led to the first courtyard (Schlosshof I).
- Portal III, built by Eosander, faced the Schlossfreiheit and was the main entrance.
- Schlüter's Portal IV led to Schlosshof I and was decorated with two bronze statues by Peter Clodt v. Jürgensburg. This portal was integrated into the Staatsratsgebäude, making it the largest part of the Stadtschloss still standing. The statues by Jürgensburg can be seen in the Kleistpark.
- Finally, Portal V was a copy of Portal IV, correspondent to the northern portal of Schlosshof II. Portal V also had additional ornaments in the lower windows.

berlin need this as soon as possible please.

Has construction or rebuilding begun? If not when will it begin? Are there any photos of the beginning of construction or progress photos?

No they didn't start, it's used as a park for now. Construction should start in 2013 approx.

I can't seem to find it. I think it was on the Humboldt forum. They showed several statues, exterior sculpture and a restored exterior window. One had a column capitol that just a bit that was broken off was repaired/ replaced. When they demolished the palace, where were the sculpture or architectural detail pieces taken? Were any of them saved? Is/was there much left of the original palace detail saved somewhere?

When I first began reading began reading the Berliner Schloss website, they stated that their objective was to restore the exterior and a few room that were significant. Future rooms and restoration would be left for future generations to do. I think this is wise. Do what you can and can afford. Provide the framework for future generations to do. The schloss was built over several centuries and I don't think there could ever be enough money to restore it all at once.

informative thread, didnt know about the one "modernist facade" until now. im a bit sad about it but still happy overall that the old Palast der Republik is gone and that at least from 3 of the four sides this new reconstructed Stadtschloss will add to the atmosphere of this nice place in berlin.

any news?

I still can't understand why anyone would think having one shitty postmodern side would ever be a good idea.


I second your opinion. It's almost painful to look at. Years later people will come to regret it.

I second your opinion. It's almost painful to look at. Years later people will come to regret it.

That's why I'll always prefer this.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/313981_203435583053340_100001606996271_581867_2798247_n.jpg

^ Interesting visualisation! Where did you get it from?

I'd so much prefer a reconstructred Spree facade to this modernist crap.

^ Interesting visualisation! Where did you get it from?

I'd so much prefer a reconstructred Spree facade to this modernist crap.

II made it. t's part of my 3D reconstruction of the Stadtschloss, seen on Google Earth.

The modernist façade is, indeed, the worst replacement for what was the oldest part of the palace (taking into account that the transverse wing is going to be built that way too). If Stella's design is finished, any chance of architectural unity in the Marstall-Palace-Cathedral axis will be lost.

I'm thinking about creating a Cause/Site on facebook calling for a reconstruction of the Spree facade.
It might get enough attention to make planners reconsider some things if it gets big enough.

Or better yet organize one of those "Occupy" things with your Wunderbar buddies!

Did you know there was a plan to add a 100-meter tower above Portal III? :lol:

http://berliner-schloss.de/wp-content/uploads/20030202190455.jpg
(Förderverein Berliner Schloss e.V. (http://berliner-schloss.de/))It would be cool if they build this tower as well. Why just a reconstruction, if we can make some things better? Every little mistake in the original design can be restored in the new version. Nonetheless i hope the modern facade towards the Spree river will be reconsidered.

What's going to happen with the statue of Karl Marx in front of the old Kulturpalast? Will he be replaced by some pre-WWII German emperor?

According to this article, the construction start of the Humboldt Forum (partial Berlin Castle reconstruction) is approved for March 2012!

http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fkultur%2Farticle13795645%2FDer-Neubau-des-Berliner-Schlosses-ist-ein-Wunder.html

(German article Google translated)

I thought that it would begin in 2013. It's good to know they will start soon :)

What will happen to the Humboldt Box? I know it is on the site just for a while until they start constructing the palace. But i kind of like the architecture of it. I hope it gets a definitive location elsewhere in the citycenter.

What will happen to the Humboldt Box? I know it is on the site just for a while until they start constructing the palace. But i kind of like the architecture of it. I hope it gets a definitive location elsewhere in the citycenter.
Well, it's supposed to be a temporary building. But I don't know what they intend to do with it later on.

It'll remain on the site for quite a while though. The official website of the Humboldt-Box (http://www.humboldt-box.com/en/concept/building.html#middle) says, that it will be there presumably until 2019.

via youtube:

http://youtu.be/LAlqzuc6HgE

That's why I'll always prefer this.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/313981_203435583053340_100001606996271_581867_2798247_n.jpg


Good news! The turret which you can see on the picture above will be build, too! :cheers:

Construction works will start next month and launch ceremony will be in 2013.

via youtube:

http://youtu.be/LAlqzuc6HgE

thanks to Disney I cannot view the video.. :bash::ohno:

^^
What the...? Does Disney now claim all rights too castles/palaces?

By the way, some good news:
They will start groundworks for the palace already this year, as Dr. Seltsam mentioned, they'll now add that baroque "round corner", which was recently donated and the dome will be build as well (maybe first in a simpler form, if donations don't come in as planned). :)

I'm so excited this is actually being built instead of just talked about. The more I see the modern facade, the more upsetting it is, I understand the desire to recreate with something unique, but that design is just horrible, at least do something creative like some Foster style glazing on the backside to enable the courtyard to look out on the spree.... I cant believe an architect designed that tumor on such a beautiful building.

From the German forum (DWF)

Musterfassade:

http://www.abload.de/img/img_6530k5jab.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/img_6573c0kdp.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/img_6574tyjlu.jpg

Quelle: Stadtbild Deutschland / lesn (http://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org/forum/index.php?page=Thread&postID=136953#post136953)

http://www.abload.de/img/p1050587q6kqi.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/clipboard0118kkz.jpg

Quelle: Stadtbild Deutschland / Palantir (http://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org/forum/index.php?page=Thread&postID=136519#post136519)

I fell in love with this photo, it's just beautiful:

Gute Neuigkeiten aus der Schlossecke (...)

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/7896/kulturgeschichtekunstha.jpg
Was für eine Pracht: Der mit Gold geschmückte Rittersaal des Berliner Schlosses auf einer Aufnahme um 1935.

Weiter: http://www.welt.de/kultur/history/article106238880/Schaetze-des-Berliner-Schlosses-doch-nicht-verloren.html
The Knights' Hall, 1935.

^^ Thank you for the interesting photos :cheers:

You should check the Berlin Castle Webcam (http://www.cityscope.de/bss/):

www.cityscope.de/bss

http://i.imgur.com/li1UM.jpg

Are there any plans to reconstruct the Kaiser Wilhelm Nationaldenkmal?

http://www.wsa-b.de/wasserstrassen/images1/12_Schloss_und_Nationaldenkmal_fuer_Kaiser_Wilhelm_am_Spreekanal,_1900_neu.jpg
It's the 'building' on the right side of the photo.

I think this is similar to the one Disney claimed "rights" to, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpENzprCHKU

Hurry and see it before they find it. Its in black and white - some of the rooms, such as the 'golden room' I have seen in color so the black and white does not do it justice. I to hope there is a faithful reconstruction instead of the moderist dreck. Also, the Kaiser Wilhelm memorial is rebuilt. Its as if a cultural zeitgeist made everyone insane after the war and decided that living a life without beauty was preferable. I like the quote someone said on another thread: Modernist are like dogs, they shit everwhere.

Are there any plans to reconstruct the Kaiser Wilhelm Nationaldenkmal?

http://www.wsa-b.de/wasserstrassen/images1/12_Schloss_und_Nationaldenkmal_fuer_Kaiser_Wilhelm_am_Spreekanal,_1900_neu.jpg
It's the 'building' on the right side of the photo.


http://d1.stern.de/bilder/stern_5/kultur/2011/KW15/einheitsdenkmal_fitwidth_420.jpg

The Memorial for Freedom and Unity.....
The Kaiser will stay in Doorn:-))

The Kaiser Wilhelm memorial won't be reconstructed.

We'll get a reunion memorial (Berlin 1990) instead.

Though I'd prefer to have that one in front of the Reichstag building.

A memorial for the reunification of Germany is a good idea.
But why does it have to be so ugly?
They could rebuild the nationaldenkmal, but instead of having a statue of the kaiser in the middle, they can put their a statue that celebrates the reunification.

A fat Helmut Kohl on a tiny horse, that's what I initially had in mind and proposed years ago - Germany, show some humour, ja! :okay:

They could rebuild the nationaldenkmal, but instead of having a statue of the kaiser in the middle, they can put their a statue that celebrates the reunification.

Ever since the disastrous personality cult around a certain A. Hitler there is an almost hereditary aversion towards (new) statues and sculptures of people in Germany.
The only one in recent history I can think of is a statue of Willy Brandt in the SPD party headquarters. And that one is so heavily stylized you almost can't make out it's even human.
To rebuild a memorial to a Prussian king is unthinkable for officials. Even without the statue itself it's still 'a glorification of Prussian militarism' and 'doesn't belong in a modern Germany'.

As for the current design. It's pretty obviously one of those desperately modern abomination that strife to be as abstract as possible so the designer can call it 'art'.
The Humboldt-Forum is a very rare case in Germany where something is not (re-)build in an exclusively modern design and even the rebuilt city palace will have a mind jarring modern backside and interior design.

It's just not possible to really reconstruct something in Germany. Officials will always try to 'preserve the damage' done to a building or location in or after WWII (Neues Museum) and architects will always try to give the building their 'personal note' in form of some horrible modern appendage (Humboldt-Forum). Granted sometimes these do work (Reichstag, although that one lost much of it's former grandeur which was most likely intended).