The Ultimate Southern City Debates!!! Round 1- *Raleigh VS Columbia** [Archive]

LSyd

October 1st, 2004, 07:44 AM

^ no, South Carolina...

i'm biased to Columbia; i went to USC and lived there (mostly) almost 5 years, and will likely end up back there at some point in my life (tired old man)

from what i know of Raleigh though and the few visits, i prefer Columbia; it seems more vibrant and happy. and Columbia's undergoing a boom now; one high-rise finished this year, another starting, and lots of nice fill projects in and around downtown. plus lots of re-landscaping.

here's some pics...

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30460876/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/27688323/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/27688321/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/27688597/original.jpg

Downtown and University Neighborhood; home to USC and some nice residential

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30415203.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30415072.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30415056.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30340210.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30340208.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30340203.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30340198.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30415204.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30415067.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30340207.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415773.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415769.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415849.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415851.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415853.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415852.jpg

Five Points - college-focused nightlife area

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415938.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415945.jpg

Finley Park hood - next to downtown, overlooking the park

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31416003.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31416004.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415997.jpg

The Vista - more upscale nightlife area

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415702.jpg

by now the urban Publix is open; it's in what was the "Confederate mint"

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415700.jpg

here's some night life pics and testimony

5 Points - more for college kids; pics above and more to come...some really great bars there though

The Vista - more for adults, and home of the best bar in the world (IMO,) The Art Bar (http://www.artbarsc.com); no cover, great drink selection, lots of cool people, great decor and atmosphere, lots of different "crowds" that all get along, great music and dancefloor with occasional concerts and even movies upstairs

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30326003.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30326004.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30326006.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30326011.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30326005.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30415060.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30415059.jpg

then there's West Columbia just across the river, with a few clubs, bars and coffee shops; most importantly, home to The New Brookland Tavern (http://www.newbrooklandtavern.com/), a great dive-like music club that manages to get a lot of good shows which are even better b/c it's such a nice, small club.

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30326010.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30326012.jpg

and much of Columbia's night life is thankfully supported by the great WUSC-FM (http://wusc.sc.edu), the university's radio station; when i'd go to Atlanta or NYC for various interviews for my radio show, i heard a lot of tour managers talk well about the station (and no, they won't just blowing smoke up someone's ass)

lots more Columbia pics to come as i reload 'em to my host...

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LSyd

October 1st, 2004, 07:49 AM

so anyway, Columbia's a pretty cheap place to live..."major city at 1/4 the size...and cost" as i've heard it described.

transportation? not much traffic unless you decide to go out and get stuck in it, and then only in 2 directions out to the burbs.

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IHateBirds

October 1st, 2004, 08:07 AM

I'll vote Raleigh in this match... The Raleigh area suits me better, what with the concentration of high-tech jobs, great schools, and overall greater diversity of things (a product of being a larger city and part of a much larger metro area).

I love some of the recent skyline shots of Columbia though--Raleigh's skyline is quite laughable by comparison, even though the Raleigh skyline towers over Columbia. Once again, it's all in the presentation--aesthetics are everything to me.

Columbia and Raleigh share similar geography, as well as an overwhelming heap of pine trees. Raleigh does experience slightly milder summers, though both places are hardly comfortable during that time. Raleigh does have more "severe" winters, especially when it comes to little statistics like average annual snowfall (8.2" versus 1.8"). Of course, I use the word "severe" lightly. :D So Raleigh is my pick of the two in that category.

I don't know much about the transit systems except that Raleigh is part of the proposed TTA Rapid Rail transit system, and Raleigh will also enjoy electric high-speed passenger rail service hopefully in the near future when the Charlotte-to-Washington DC leg of the HSR project is completed.

Raleigh has a thriving arts community, primarily in the form of visual arts and especially performing arts. From what I've seen, Columbia also has its share of arts, but I do not know to what extent.

Tauricorn

October 1st, 2004, 08:30 AM

I've never been to Raliegh, but I know its much larger. I'd like to hear more about both cities before I cast my vote.

Columbia, SC
City: 117,357
Metro: 708,247

Both cities are similar in the fact that they are both state capitals and have major research universities. Both cities usually rate fairly high in the quality of life category. I'd say if Raleigh didn't have a Durham these cities would have quite a bit more in common. Raleigh's urban area is only larger by about 100,000 people.

Columbia isn't as well publicized as Raleigh but that doesn't mean that the city has been sleeping. It's been named as one of the most liveable cities in the nation. It's ranked #28 on Forbes best places list right behind Charlotte.

The city in general is diverse or at least diverse by SC standards anyway, has a live and let live attitude. Great location 2hrs from the beach or mountains. 3-3.5 hours from ATL. Columbia has a steady strong local economy (has the states only fortune 500 company, SCANA) and is aggressively changing itself from a state government and federal government based economy into a brainpower economy. The National Science Foundation recognized USC as being the institution for Feul Cell research and Nanotechnology. The USC Research Campus is under development (Du Pont, BASF, & other companies are partners in this endevour). The city is developing a Wireless downtown.
USC business incubator (for small start up tech companies)
Columbia is the North American HQ for Siemens diesel feul.

Columbia is also a big law town. There are more lawyers concerntrated here than any other place in the state. The Meridian building was built by, or for (I can't remember) a law Firm relocating from Atlanta.

I know many people will find this hard to believe but I read an article recently that stated Columbia has a more active arts scene than Charleston. Which I could see as possible. The city has several museums, theatres, music and dance companies etc. I listed a few on this post but there are alot more Arts/ Culture link (http://www.columbiasc.net/cofc_aac_artsculture.html). I couldn't tell you how much money is put into the art scene here though?

I know the city isn't quite on the developmental level of the triangle but it is taking steps in the right direction!

IHateBirds, I'm not so sure Raleigh's DT "towers" over Columbia though:wink2:

Columbia Skyline
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/Columbia%20Skyline/I-77pano2.jpg

More info about Columbia:

Education:
Richland County has a very well educated population. According to the census it is the 45th most educated county in the nation (that's individuals who live there with a bachelors degree or higher), and the #1 in the state of SC.

Nightlife:
Has two districts in the vicinity of downtown The Vista (usually older/urban professional crowd), and 5points (USC crowd).

Transportation:
3 major interstates that intersect the city (I-26, I-20, I-77)
Columbia Metropalitian Airport (United Parcel Service hub)
Amtrak service to the North East or where ever you want to go
The new South East Highspeed rail corridor will actually be going through Columbia from Raleigh. There are plans to build HSR from Columbia to Charlotte in the future as well.

Recreation:
Congaree National Park (States only National Park, since 2003)
Lake Murray (water activities) 30 min from downtown, located just NW of the Irmo suburb
Harbison State Forest (hiking, mtn biking)
Three Rivers Greenway (series of parks located along the Congaree River in DT)

Arts/ Culture:
SC State Museum
Ed Venture (south east largest children's museum)
The Columbia Museum of Art

The Koger Center for the Arts
The South Carolina Shakespeare Company
Columbia Marionette Theatre

The South Carolina Philharmonic Orchestra
The Columbia City Ballet
The Columbia City Jazz Company

The Richland Country Public Library (2002 public library of the year)

Anyhow I like both cities. But I chose Columbia b/c that's where I grew up!

Check out these websites for any further info about Columbia.

Most Livable Cities 2004 (http://www.mostlivable.org/cities/columbia/home.html)
Columbia Home Page (http://www.columbiasc.net/)
City Developments Page (http://www.columbiadevelopment.org/)

By the way LSYD, love those panos keep em coming!

LSyd

October 1st, 2004, 04:57 PM

Nelson Mullins Riley Scarborough's the law firm in Meridian (i think that's the full name.)

Columbia's also got more nightlife growing in downtown - Sherlock Holmes Pub has/will have when it reopens late night parties (a friend of mine's DJ'd there) and there's some trendy club that opened up in the past year in downtown.

there's also Uncle Doctor's out by the airport in Cayce; it's owned by the same guys as Ground Zero in Spartanburg and caters mostly to the metal/rap crowds.

more "things" in Raleigh? like what? speak, speak!!!

more panos? sure thing:

Five Points area

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/28611086/original.jpg

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astro

October 1st, 2004, 06:13 PM

Hmm... if Raleigh and Columbia connected you would have "Ralumbia" and it would be huge! Cool man!

O.k. seriously though,

Well, being from NC and being more familiar with Raleigh it is hard for me to make an unbiased pick. Both cities have a lot going for it. I believe there are several areas where Raleigh is a clear leader over Columbia, but that doesn't neccesary make it better. Both cities have large state supported schools in NCST and USC. Raleigh is a major-league sport city with the NHL Hurricanes. As far as jobs, particularly in the high-tech fields of computers and bio-tech Raleigh is hard to beat. Raleigh and the rest of Wake County have experienced tremendous growth over the past 20 years--so much so that it has really been one of the hottest relocation spots in the Southeast. Due to the economic diversity of Raleigh and less dependence on manufacturing, Raleigh's economy is very healthy and looks very good for many years to come. I don't know a lot about Raleigh's nightlife but I do know between Walnut Creek Ampitheater and the RBC center, you have a steady flow of national acts passing through the city.

We all know that being larger and having more "stuff" doesn't neccesarily make a city better than another. So, not knowing Columbia well enough I can't make a vote based on one city being better than the other. Aside from that though, Raleigh is a much larger city and metro--and a very healthy one at that. At the rate of Raleigh's growth compared to Columbia I would guess this conversation becomes even less meaningful in another 10 years.

One last thing. I really get a good sense of identity in Columbia. Columbia seems to have a good feel for who they are. That is one thing that a lot of cities struggle with. Particularly I think for fast growing cities like Raleigh it can be easy to lose your identity. Combine that with the fact that many residents are transplants from other regions of the country and you can end up with a place that is not the most "rooted" or "identifiable".

O.k. after all that jibberish and nonsense, I would vote for Raleigh because it is milder. I hate hot weather! And oh yeah, it is closer to Greensboro. :)

teshadoh

October 1st, 2004, 06:19 PM

Though I think Columbia can compare to many amenities Raleigh has - I would go with Raleigh based on employment. The Research Triangle is too large of an employment base to overlook, even it is an overglorified office park. Also, Raleigh will have a transit system in the near future & with it's proximity to Durham & Chapel Hill - it's hard to beat it in future growth.

LSyd

October 1st, 2004, 06:31 PM

i remember night life in Raleigh seemed to be getting really cool in 2001...i saw static-x there, and i remember foetus played there (or at least in the metro area.) thrill kill kult also played there, but they played in columbia the year after that, too...

but for most of 2002 and 2003 i saw fewer and less-interesting shows playing in Raleigh, and more in Columbia by comparison.

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teshadoh

October 1st, 2004, 06:37 PM

Chapel Hill most likely overshadows Raleigh in that regard - with Chapel Hill being one of the 'new Athens' during the 90's there was a lot more going at Cat's Cradle than anyother place in Raleigh. Though many of those Chapel Hill bands were actually Raleigh - but it was Chapel Hill's fame that gained them notiriety (misspelled the hell out of that word, sorry).

kingkillthirtythree

October 1st, 2004, 06:38 PM

I cant decide. does anyone have any pictures of raleigh that they can show??

LSyd

October 1st, 2004, 06:39 PM

NCtarheel

October 1st, 2004, 07:51 PM

Well i've been to both...but raleigh is larger, not only that but the metro is much larger. Raleigh has a healthier economy as well. People tend to ignore raleigh's entertainment districts (warehouse district and south glenwood). Glenwood south is growing even more as a restaurant destintation and there are many condos/apartments going up on that end of downtown. Raleigh is also moving toward linking with it's metro area through light rail system..which is a big plus for future growth.

ATL-MAN

October 1st, 2004, 10:22 PM

Columbia skyline is much better than Raleigh. But, those girl's in that club need to cut back on the Nachos.

Tauricorn

October 1st, 2004, 10:31 PM

Columbia usually gets overlooked in the growth department.

I know alot of people won't acknowledge it but, Columbia was the fastest growing large metro (percent) in South Carolina from 1990-2000, at least according to the census anyway. It grew by 18.4% three spots behind Greensboro nationally. source:Fastest growing metros 1990-2000 (http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t3/tab05.txt)

But b/c it's not talked about most people don't know that.

Myrtle Beach was top dawg in the state though! It is 13th nationally and grew by 36.5%, right behind Raleigh.

LSyd

October 1st, 2004, 10:48 PM

no one cares about Columbia...

But, those girl's in that club need to cut back on the Nachos

it's from booze dude. they're friends of mine and would proceed to drink you under the table until you were passed out in a puddle of your own piss.

:cheers:

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Tauricorn

October 1st, 2004, 11:03 PM

Skanky the Boricuo

October 1st, 2004, 11:11 PM

I'd take Columbia over Raleigh in a second.

astro

October 1st, 2004, 11:17 PM

Columbia skyline is much better than Raleigh. But, those girl's in that club need to cut back on the Nachos.

I don't know, the girl second one from the left looks pretty cute. Can I have her number dude? jk.

TritaniumZ3

October 2nd, 2004, 12:49 AM

So JRQ...
Someone acually listensed to me and stared these debates after all the s*** I got from you.
Thanks alot!!!

JRQ

October 2nd, 2004, 01:18 AM

gravy

October 2nd, 2004, 01:51 AM

Columbia, SC
I know many people will find this hard to believe but I read an article recently that stated Columbia has a more active arts scene than Charleston. Which I could see as possible.
I'd believe it. Excluding Sploeto USA and the fine arts program at the College of Charleston, which is supposed to be very, very good, Charleston's day to day art scene really doesn't go beyond gallaries full of Rainbow Row prints. Heck, I'd even guess that Greenville, with it's theatre companies, symphony and ballet companies, could have an arts scene that's more active than Charleston's. But I kind of doubt it...

If you were to exclude Chapel Hill then I would say that, for it's size, Columbia would suit me better than Raliegh.

LSyd

October 2nd, 2004, 03:38 AM

yeah but why are we including Chapel Hill as Raleigh? can't it stand alone?

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Tauricorn

October 2nd, 2004, 04:46 AM

I forgot to add in my initial post that Columbia has aspirations to be known as the "Hydrogen City".

The city is initiating efforts to develop the east coast version of the "Hydrogen Highway". Similair to the west coast highway running from San Francisco to San Diego.

Here's more information about these developments. Hydrogen Highway (http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/business/columnists/c_grant_jackson/9221925.htm)

TritaniumZ3

October 2nd, 2004, 04:33 PM

Tritanium, I don't know what the heck you're talking about. All I told you was we have already done them before, and people cheated on them and stuff. I have actually had this idea for months now, so it wasn't your idea. Maybe you got me confused with someone else.....

Anyways, I think I will vote for Columbia because it seems to have much more things to do.

ok ok im sorry dude. I didn't know you had the idea before me. After tou finish the rounds you should have a knckout or something to have the Ultimate South city!!!

JRQ

October 2nd, 2004, 05:00 PM

yeah, that is what I was going for-maybe have 2 knockout competitions; one for smaller cities and one for larger ones.

Buckley

October 3rd, 2004, 07:11 PM

LSyd

October 3rd, 2004, 09:28 PM

Voted for Columbia, it has some interesting character (as well as some unfortunate ugly sprawl admittedly). RDC is certainly more affluent with lots of economic potential in a pleasant setting. But other than downtown CH, the area has a overwhelming suburban vibe. I know there are some mini-urban developments happening there, but one cannot help but be struck by the generic sprawling development.

what city in the U.S. doesn't have unfortunate, ugly sprawl? :dunno:

i've always thought that aside from Clemson and Two Notch Roads, Columbia's sprawl was a lot nicer and better organized than a lot of cities.

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JRQ

October 3rd, 2004, 09:31 PM

Would you still count something as sprawl if it was located in the city limits?

astro

October 3rd, 2004, 09:41 PM

Wow, this is a tight race. What happens if there is a tie?

Buckley

October 3rd, 2004, 09:51 PM

what city in the U.S. doesn't have unfortunate, ugly sprawl? :dunno:

i've always thought that aside from Clemson and Two Notch Roads, Columbia's sprawl was a lot nicer and better organized than a lot of cities.

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All cities do. The only towns that don't are those that are dying. Don't get me wrong, I think Columbia is an interesting town with a lot of character, more so than RDC. I think it was the two notches road (?) area that I'm rerrring to above (north and west-Bush River Road?).

LSyd

October 3rd, 2004, 10:02 PM

Would you still count something as sprawl if it was located in the city limits?

yes; it's the type of development as well as the location.

I think it was the two notches road (?) area that I'm rerrring to above (north and west-Bush River Road?).

yup, Two Notch Road, part of U.S. Highway 1...which is looked down on in the Columbia area as being nasty sprawl. i remember a news story comparing Two Notch Road to Divine Street; both are sprawl to an extent, but Divine's got trees on the side, street parking, more businesses closer to the road, better traffic flow, and is a lot nicer; it's a much more natural progression away from the city center compared to Two Notch's blandness.

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JRQ

October 3rd, 2004, 11:18 PM

Wow, this is a tight race. What happens if there is a tie?
The mods can decide :)

romec

October 4th, 2004, 12:25 AM

First off let me say that I'm not really a fan of "vs" threads; It really seems like boosters of a city are looking for reassurance for their city. Also typically one of the cities is usually seen as having a chip on its shoulder in relation to the other city. Also I've noticed that the thread is never from the larger city: New Yorkers don't start NYC vs LA threads, Atlanteans never start Atlanta vs Charlotte threads. Charlotteans don't start Raleigh vs Charlotte threads. That aside, I decided to join the fray because there is a heavy Columbia bias and not a lot of info about Raleigh in this thread.

So here are some pics/info about Raleigh and btw is this vs for metro or city??

Downtown Raleigh
http://www.webdesignace.com/photos/wilm2.jpg
http://www.webdesignace.com/photos/9_24_04/IMG_0886.JPG
http://www.webdesignace.com/photos/9_24_04/IMG_0910.JPG
http://www.webdesignace.com/photos/9_24_04/IMG_0911.JPG
http://www.webdesignace.com/photos/9_24_04/IMG_0881.JPG
There are more flattering angles, but I stuck to pictures that I've taken.

As far as sports/entertainment (including metro because dook(Duke) and UNC are within 30 minutes of downtown raleigh)
3 top college programs.
Durham Bulls baseball
Carolina Hurricanes Hockey (if the lockout ends)
Many entertainment acts at the RBC center and Alltel pavillion(one of the best outdoor venues in the southeast).
In addition the BTI center for the performing arts(a truly awesome venue)/exploris-IMAX/and two large museums are located downtown.
Also Glenwood South is rapidly becoming a destination downtown, but I don't have any pics.

Education
Well the metro has 3 world class research institutes.
Raleigh alone is host to
NC State, Peace College, Shaw U, St Augustine's college, Meredith College and Wake Technical college.
I can't back up the stat, but Raleigh-Durham has the most Phd's per capita in the nation after Boston, Mass.

Other
Research Triangle Park (Nationally known Research Park)
I know malls aren't typically a good point to bring up on a skyscraper related page, but Raleigh has two 1.3 million sq foot malls and a third is in Durham.
I believe Hanes mall in W/S is still the largest between Atlanta and DC and that Charlotte has a large mall or two, but about 3/5 of the largest malls between Atlanta and DC are in Raleigh-Durham

We've got a light rail system on the way along with a larger convention center.

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 12:39 AM

here's Columbia's sports and some other crap that seems to be loved for these pissing contests:

USC - Gamecocks; covers everything, with a baseball team that's gone to the college world series a lot recently

Bombers minor league baseball

Columbia Inferno hockey - no lockout here

lots of college/underground bands coming through because of WUSC...

but if you want corporate arena crap and big-name stuff, there's a lot more going to the new Carolina Center now

other schools around Columbia besides USC:

Allen and Benedict colleges - historic black colleges
Midlands Tech
Columbia College

Columbia has one of the highest percentages nationwide of college grads (people with degrees)

malls...hell, they're malls, they're in Columbia too, no shortage; why are you so obsessed with malls anyway to mention Durham?

and history? you're got lots of history when 1/3 of the city was burned during the Civil War.

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Tauricorn

October 4th, 2004, 12:47 AM

Wow, this is a tight race. What happens if there is a tie?

Yeah it is a pretty tight race! I honestly didn't expect many people would suppport Columbia over Raleigh though. I figured if anything they would look at the names of the cities and vote for Raleigh just because. But it's encouraging to see so much support for my hometown. I really think its one of the most overlooked, underrated cities in the Carolinas. I do think with all that is going on in Columbia that in the near future it will change.

The city is using Austin, TX as a model for sucess. Ten years ago Austin had a similar size metro as Columbia today. Other similarities include major research institutions, convergence to a brainpower/ high-tech local economy, oppourtunities and incentives for start up high-tech businesses to locate to the area,state capitals, both cities usually overlooked by states other cities (Myrtle Beach, Charleston, Hilton Head; or in TX Houston, Dallas, San Antonio), both cities hot as hell, liberal friendly environments (Austin probablly a little more so than Columbia though), thriving arts scene, & high quality of life index.

So again I say right now Columbia may not compare w/ RDU as far as high-tech economy is concerned but as far as quality of life for its size at just under 1 million, Columbia packs quite a punch. Even w/o the presence of 3 major research institutions, or a professional team.

The citys' future seems to be heading in the right direction! :)

IHateBirds

October 4th, 2004, 12:53 AM

why are you so obsessed with malls anyway to mention Durham?

Errrrr... Are you just messing with him or are you actually serious? I hope it's the former.

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 01:02 AM

Errrrr... Are you just messing with him or are you actually serious? I hope it's the former.

i was just messing with him...although mall consideration on this forum, in particular, is crazy.

Even w/o the presence of 3 major research institutions,

how many actually in the city though?

i really have developed a hatred of Chapel-Hill though...everyone i've met who's gone there is egotistical as hell, and many are free to tell me it's "The real Carolina."

secretly, they're probably jealous b/c USC has a cooler mascot.

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IHateBirds

October 4th, 2004, 01:04 AM

So again I say right now Columbia may not compare w/ RDU as far as high-tech economy is concerned but as far as quality of life for its size at just under 1 million, Columbia packs quite a punch. Even w/o the presence of 3 major research institutions, a professional team.

The citys' future seems to be heading in the right direction! :)

I zoomed through Columbia not that long ago on a roadtrip to the backward-ass heartland of Georgia (wow, talk about culture shock!)... I was very impressed with what I briefly saw of Columbia. I really didn't know what to expect because I had never been there before.

You've brought some very nice pictures of the Columbia skyline to the table, and I really believe it looks a hell of a lot better than Raleigh's, despite the Columbia height deficit. This is another example of how height isn't necessary for a cool skyline. Richmond is the ultimate example of this.

I've enjoyed this thread so far because everyone except for two people contributed something useful, positive, and articulate regarding their opinion.

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 01:12 AM

IHateBirds

October 4th, 2004, 01:14 AM

...although mall consideration on this forum, in particular, is crazy.

And I believe the dude pointed that out specifically... :lol:

how many actually in the city though?

Raleigh and RTP work together as a unit. In fact, a very large number of RTP based companies have satellite offices in the city of Raleigh. Also, NCSU along with the very impressive Centennial Campus houses a ton of stuff like this. There are a large number research oriented office parks spread throughout Wake County... The big corporations often have their main campus/home base in RTP though (Nortel, Cisco, IBM, EPA, GlaxoSmithKline, etc).

i really have developed a hatred of Chapel-Hill though...everyone i've met who's gone there is egotistical as hell

And you are very perceptive to have arrived at that conclusion. I hate Chapel Hill because of the snotty attitude many people there end up developing. Though I hate to generalize--there are some genuinely great people there as well.

and many are free to tell me it's "The real Carolina."

I have never heard this, nor any kind of negative remark in regard to South Carolina. I hear Virginia mentioned more often than South Carolina, which stands to reason if you look at the distances between the Triangle and Virginia.

secretly, they're probably jealous b/c USC has a cooler mascot.

Your perception is accurate once again... It would be just like someone from Chapel Hill to be jealous of something so silly. :lol:

Tauricorn

October 4th, 2004, 01:15 AM

^IHateBirds, I appreciate the comment!

As far as malls in the area, b/c I know everyone love's malls Columbia has 4, and at least one that I know of with 1.1milion sq. ft. yaaay! :)

Oh yeah and there is an IMAX theatre coming to the state museum. Not sure exactly when but I do know its in the expansion plans accoding to the Columbia Development Corp.

I know nobady asked about it but,

"Go fake Carolina, go!"

JUST Planyn! :)

IHateBirds

October 4th, 2004, 01:17 AM

^ yet you voted for Raleigh...

on the point of mass transit, Columbia's been working on expanding the bus system, and doesn't have enough of a traffic problem to really merit spending money for any other mass transit.

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What is your point? Why are you making excuses for Columbia? It is entirely unnecessary. Have I said something that prompted this response from you? If so, cite the exact passage so I can analyze and explain it for you.

don_king

October 4th, 2004, 01:21 AM

Columbia, for sure. I'de take it over Charleston, too - where I'm from. If you can look past the murderworld feel to the town (a plus, actually) it is a great place to raise a family. If the children survive, they will surely murder those charpet-bagging yankees that infest UNC-CH and stuff their orifices with cocks. Not sure where they get off. THEY SOLD OUT THE REAL DIXIELAND! THE FLAG FLIES FOREVER!

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 01:21 AM

And I believe the dude pointed that out specifically... :lol:

yup, so why stretch the boundary?

Raleigh and RTP work together as a unit. In fact, a very large number of RTP based companies have satellite offices in the city of Raleigh. Also, NCSU along with the very impressive Centennial Campus houses a ton of stuff like this. There are a large number research oriented office parks spread throughout Wake County... The big corporations often have their main campus/home base in RTP though (Nortel, Cisco, IBM, EPA, GlaxoSmithKline, etc).

so it's still sprawl-centered?

And you are very perceptive to have arrived at that conclusion. I hate Chapel Hill because of the snotty attitude many people there end up developing. Though I hate to generalize--there are some genuinely great people there as well.

Your perception is accurate once again... It would be just like someone from Chapel Hill to be jealous of something so silly. :lol:

yeah, there's always exceptions of cool/bad people in any group. i'm speaking from a 100% encounter basis though.

Columbia metro...what cities/towns are there? thanks to South Carolina's restrictive annexation laws, a lot.

for farther out ones that are growing now and with some stuff, there's Lexington, Newberry...a bunch of smaller ones. Newberry's got an opera house that attracts a lot of people and has nice small-town feel.

-

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 01:23 AM

What is your point? Why are you making excuses for Columbia? It is entirely unnecessary. Have I said something that prompted this response from you? If so, cite the exact passage so I can analyze and explain it for you.

well you did vote for Raleigh.

as for mass transit, it's one thing that was listed for the "vs" categories on page one...

so when Raleigh says "mass transit/light rail planned," well, why not respond with another plus of Columbia; a general lack of bad traffic.

-

IHateBirds

October 4th, 2004, 01:36 AM

well you did vote for Raleigh.

as for mass transit, it's one thing that was listed for the "vs" categories on page one...

so when Raleigh says "mass transit/light rail planned," well, why not respond with another plus of Columbia; a general lack of bad traffic.

-

What in the hell are you talking about? And is this your answer to my question?

IHateBirds

October 4th, 2004, 01:46 AM

yup, so why stretch the boundary?

What??

so it's still sprawl-centered?

Um, yeah :?

I think I understand what you're really trying to say (for once), but I should point out that "sprawl-centered" is a very confusing term. Just analyze it and you'll see why.

yeah, there's always exceptions of cool/bad people in any group. i'm speaking from a 100% encounter basis though.

What is a "100% encounter basis"? Are you a republican?

Columbia metro...what cities/towns are there? thanks to South Carolina's restrictive annexation laws, a lot.

for farther out ones that are growing now and with some stuff, there's Lexington, Newberry...a bunch of smaller ones. Newberry's got an opera house that attracts a lot of people and has nice small-town feel.
-

Is this directed to me? If so, could you organize it into complete sentences and shoot it my way again? Also please include what this statement is in reference to--i.e. what statements from me prompted this response from you.

Is anyone else having difficulty understanding this person?

I'm sorry guy, I'm really trying to communicate with you, but it seems we're having a bit of a problem understanding one another, and I'd like to sort it out if at all possible.

romec

October 4th, 2004, 01:52 AM

Ohhhh thats cute, you kids down their also call your flagship university Carolina.
Just know this, when you flip on ESPN and they say Carolina, they aren't talking about you, unless its baseball in which case they will say South Carolina. (Heck, you guys aren't even THE USC, find an identity quick.) Its petty of me to just look at athletics. As far as best colleges in the nation, Carolina is ranked 29th in the nation, USC is ranked 30th. Oh whoops thats Southern Cal. YOUR USC is 117 (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php)
For the record NCSU is 86.

Why did I mention a Durham mall? Because for someone living in West Raleigh, both of those mega-malls are 15 minutes away. I did say mega mall, I'm not referring to "Columbiana." (I have family in Columbia, so I'm not blindly talking about other cities here.) The only reason I brought up malls in the first place is because they are typically a good barometer of retail in an area. There are two regional (mega) malls in Raleigh's city limits. I'm not sure if there is one in the state of South Carolina. . . .

Columbia is on the best place to live, right behind Charlotte right?? Look up a few spots on the list, Raleigh's been sitting pretty high on that list for the last decade.
Just about all the entertainment options for Columbia, more exist in Raleigh. We are definitely a concert/tour destination.

I do like that Columbia skyline shot though. Is Columbia's better than Raleigh? I don't think so, but that is a pretty good angle there. I've been to Columbia though, that skyline isn't imposing; Raleigh's can be (from 1 or 2 angles.) Face it, Neither one of us is Charlotte.

I'm surprised noone has mentioned Riverbanks in Columbia, I thought the zoo was cool. . . .

Metro: Raleigh-Durham vs Columbia isn't even a competition
Raleigh vs Columbia: Its kinda like Charlotte vs Raleigh; you've got some nice things and some similarities, but when you actually go to the other city and see how far it is ahead it kinda kills your argument cold.

You had to go say something about my Alma Mater. . . . Carolina (No North required, we all know the university I'm talking about)

romec

October 4th, 2004, 01:57 AM

I just wanted to state for the record that I was pulled into this pissing match and did not fire the first shot. After enough anti UNC-CH sentiment, I was forced to defend my Alma Mater. Let the records show that I started off civil.

(Read: I don't want to be quoted later in this post as an example of Carolina's arrogance)

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 01:58 AM

hmm, i don't remember you being this dense before, but maybe i never noticed. or maybe i've killed too many brain cells (like some other forumers...mainly you.)

so i'll be concrete

Originally Posted by LSyd: yup, so why stretch the boundary?

What??

this was the natural response to the "malls" comparison, because dude brought up a mall in Durham, and ribbed him on

LSyd: so it's still sprawl-centered?
Um, yeah

I think I understand what you're really trying to say (for once), but I should point out that "sprawl-centered" is a very confusing term. Just analyze it and you'll see why.

not in the way i used it; i wasn't referring to geographic location of sprawl (which can be directed, and can have a center,) but to the presence of the corporations you mentioned who have office parks in the Raleigh metro.

What is a "100% encounter basis"? Are you a republican?

where do you bring "republican" into this; and no, i'm not; i really don't like that party's ideology.

"100% encounter basis" means i haven't met anyone who's cool or not egotistical from Chapel Hill.

[QUOTE=IHateBirds]

LSyd: Columbia metro...what cities/towns are there? thanks to South Carolina's restrictive annexation laws, a lot.

for farther out ones that are growing now and with some stuff, there's Lexington, Newberry...a bunch of smaller ones. Newberry's got an opera house that attracts a lot of people and has nice small-town feel.
-

Is this directed to me? If so, could you organize it into complete sentences and shoot it my way again? Also please include what this statement is in reference to--i.e. what statements from me prompted this response from you.

[QUOTE]

no it's not; i thought you'd be able to tell a complex, multi-part post apart...i was wrong.

it's directed to other Columbia forumers.

[QUOTE=IHateBirds]

Is anyone else having difficulty understanding this person?

I'm sorry guy, I'm really trying to communicate with you, but it seems we're having a bit of a problem understanding one another, and I'd like to sort it out if at all possible.
[QUOTE]

i would too. i suggest...thinking skills. or i'll talk down, and make everything explicit, and we can talk like robots without any subtelties, nuances, innuedno, or that other fun stuff.

-

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 02:01 AM

I just wanted to state for the record that I was pulled into this pissing match and did not fire the first shot. After enough anti UNC-CH sentiment, I was forced to defend my Alma Mater. Let the records show that I started off civil.

hahahahahaha...uhm, no. you started off like every egotistical choad (and lass) from Chapel Hill i've met. then you try to deny it...cute. and typical.

-

Tauricorn

October 4th, 2004, 02:27 AM

romec.

You bring such astute observations, and original dialogue to the conversation.

It was trully insane that Columbia be put up agianst Raleigh. I guess we'll have to tell the moderators to stop the competition!

Why do you hate Columbia so much?

Chill out dude, live and let live.

Nobody said Raleigh was the axis of evil in the southeast.

I like the Raleigh area. I even have friends there.

But that doesn't mean that my town or anyones for that matter should be demoralized just because of a few superficial attributes?

The character of the city is formed by the individuals who live there and make it thrive.

Give love and get love back.

romec

October 4th, 2004, 02:29 AM

I'm the egotistical one?

hmm, i don't remember you being this dense before, but maybe i never noticed.

no it's not; i thought you'd be able to tell a complex, multi-part post apart...i was wrong.

would too. i suggest...thinking skills. or i'll talk down, and make everything explicit, and we can talk like robots without any subtelties, nuances, innuedno, or that other fun stuff.

I just stated several things about UNC and USC. UNC is the older university, has a stronger athletics program and stronger academics. We've been Carolina longer AND we are Carolina to more people; that is why we call ourselves "Carolina". Don't take it personally, I never actually said anything bad about USC. Now I suggest we stop flaming each other about Carolina and get back to the thread. If starting a "UNC vs USC which is Carolina?" thread will help you sleep better at night, go ahead be my guest.

IHateBirds

October 4th, 2004, 02:37 AM

hmm, i don't remember you being this dense before, but maybe i never noticed. or maybe i've killed too many brain cells (like some other forumers...mainly you.)

so i'll be concrete

The grammar... it's priceless. :lol:

this was the natural response to the "malls" comparison, because dude brought up a mall in Durham, and ribbed him on

See, he brought it up with a disclaimer... which should have been sufficient in holding off any serious criticism. I thought the tone of your response was worthy of comment, that's all.

not in the way i used it; i wasn't referring to geographic location of sprawl (which can be directed, and can have a center,) but to the presence of the corporations you mentioned who have office parks in the Raleigh metro.

Heh, that was actually a bit of a joke... I guess you missed it.

where do you bring "republican" into this; and no, i'm not; i really don't like that party's ideology.

That was also a bit of a joke, but I guess you missed it too. Heh, I'm not terribly surprised at this point.

"100% encounter basis" means i haven't met anyone who's cool or not egotistical from Chapel Hill.

Yeah, I was sort of picking on your "grammar". Sorry about that.

no it's not; i thought you'd be able to tell a complex, multi-part post apart...i was wrong.

it's directed to other Columbia forumers.

The only thing complex here is the nature of your grammatical errors. Christ, I need to quit doing that, sorry again.

i would too. i suggest...thinking skills. or i'll talk down, and make everything explicit, and we can talk like robots without any subtelties, nuances, innuedno, or that other fun stuff.

You know what--all you really need to do is work on your communication skills and your grammar. Honestly your writing "style" is extremely hard to follow. You are also very slow to pick up on context clues regarding inflection and such.

IHateBirds

October 4th, 2004, 02:40 AM

DallasTexan

October 4th, 2004, 02:40 AM

I choose Nashville.

texasboy

October 4th, 2004, 02:46 AM

I choose Nashville.

I don't mean to comment on every post you have been posting lately, but seriously, why do you do that?

BTW, I picked Raleigh.

romec

October 4th, 2004, 02:48 AM

Now what was the first thing that I said about "vs" threads before I posted. I don't know, maybe I'm just missing the point of them, but almost every tangible quality has already been ranked. Groups of categories have been ranked too, thats where our "best place to live" rankings come from. Someone always gets their feelings hurt. IMHO the only thing worse than a versus thread is a "what if New York and LA merged and became "New Yangeles". Tauricorn, please find one negative thing that I've said about the city of Columbia. I don't hate it, as I've stated I have family there. I only directly compared several things, I didn't say that anything in Columbia was "bad" I just said that something in Raleigh was better. BTW I really do like the zoo, we don't have one here in Raleigh, closest is in Asheboro.

DallasTexan

October 4th, 2004, 02:50 AM

SSC is one big joke for me; I use it for entertainment only.

Tauricorn

October 4th, 2004, 03:17 AM

Cool.

romec,

I actually like vs. threads b/c if you can sift through everthing you can learn alot about another city.

That's usually why I post on these to try to create awareness.

Columbia is a great town! Raleigh is a great town! Now from there its just a matter of opinion on which people prefer.

It's cool I can live with it if someone says that they don't like Columbia. I'm not trying to persuade people I'm just highlighting facts about the area, that I'm sure if someone hasn't been there before wouldn't know.

I guess the bottom line is for me is that yes RDU has more going for it than Columbia does right now, I acknowledge that. But with that said it's not a stick in the mud, backwoods metro either. There are several things there going in the right direction, and when it's all said and done that's the only real measuring stick. At least in my opinion anyway. As long as you are not in the same place today that you were yestarday then you must be doing something right.

I use the forbes analogy because towns like RDU, Austin, etc.. are on those list, and those list do have influence. Columbia was in the spot behind Charlotte this year. I thought that was pretty good because 10 years ago Columbia couldn't even be found on such a list.
The first time I new Raleigh was supposed to be an influential town (and I don't mean that in a negative way) was about ten years ago when I saw it on a "best cities" list. I had been there before but never really thought much of it, I didn't feel overwhelmed you know. Just felt like any other mid-sized city to me. But I read the list and found out it was a bio-tech town.

Anyway, Iv'e rambled enough.

JRQ

October 4th, 2004, 03:48 AM

The reasons I would vote for Columbia are; they actually have a good downtown
They seem to actually have a nightlife going on
People don't seem as snotty/stuck up in Columbia; but once again, not everyone is like that.

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 04:03 AM

LSyd, we can continue this discussion later when I come to see Justin's apartment. :lol:

And just for clarification... I have never said anything negative about Columbia--in fact I have been quite positive about it, and very very honest about my lack of knowledge. I think it's a great city with a bright future.

:weirdo:

good...as a journalism major, i'll tear you a new one in a grammar war. in fact, every post of yours i come across will now be examined and critiqued. like DT said, i don't come here to make the most serious and proper work of my life, even when arguing for something...i'll save that for law school work.

and i got your jokes, i just didn't find them funny. try harder.

and no, you didn't bash Columbia, but you did vote Raleigh and later praise Columbia. may you enlighten us with a clarification please?

I'm the egotistical one?

it was a joke on my part, one i thought Ihatebirds would've gotten. oh well...

i've never been to Riverbanks, but i've heard good things.

and i have said good things about Raleigh, and its extended MSA in this thread...

and yes, let's save the flames for who really deserves it; Houston, Atlanta, Charlotte and Nashvulle. :bash:

I actually like vs. threads b/c if you can sift through everthing you can learn alot about another city.

That's usually why I post on these to try to create awareness.

yes, get everything out, even the ugly pissing contests, in the name of education...hopefully, we'll all shake hands at the end.

so, to get back on track, some more shots of Cola:

around Olympia - old mill neighborhood, a mix of working class, college kids and everyone else; if you watch the movie "The Program," you can see the mill still in operation in winter (having never seen that, i thought it was cool)

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30325959.jpg

mills now being rehabbed

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415731.jpg

view from the parking lot in front

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415724.jpg

ruins nearby

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30325960.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30325967.jpg

Vulcan company quarry behind the mills...the truck route's been rerouted for redevelopment

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30325966.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30325968.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30325964.jpg

more pics of Columbia coming tomorrow...

how about gratuitous, partial skyline shot?

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/27688321.jpg

-

UrbanDesigner

October 4th, 2004, 04:23 AM

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 04:28 AM

don_king

October 4th, 2004, 04:28 AM

You are kidding, right? Columbia's an interesting city and once was a premier Southern city, but Raleigh just does dances around just about anything I can think of...population, income, education, recreation, medical facilities, economy...

We are just talking about city-for-city, right? I'd hate to throw Raleigh-Durham against Columbia. That would be harsh.

The best way of gauging how cool a town is: consider how easily it would be to get into trouble with the law. Columbia is the kind of town where you could easily be involved in some kind of crime, probably a felony. This is way cool, and makes Columbia a more "happening" place. What about Raleigh? The strangest thing that could happen is that you may sleep with a family member - normally an uncle, for north carolinians. UNC-CH graduates seem to be more partial to grandfathers.

Tauricorn

October 4th, 2004, 04:31 AM

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30340208.jpg

-

The Tapps building is actually lofts now.

Just thought that was cool.

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 04:43 AM

yup...and they're doing something to change the Greyhound station in the foreground.

pics from back in May:

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30340205.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30340206.jpg

future site of Columbia's newest, the First Citizens HQ

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30340107.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30340108.jpg

rendering:

http://www.thestate.com/images/thestate/state/8517/72544755914.gif

while something taller'd be cool, it's great looking and fits in well in that block; if it was taller, it wouldn't fit in as well because it's so close to the state house building.

-

Tauricorn

October 4th, 2004, 05:01 AM

What exactly are they doing with greyhound?

NCtarheel

October 4th, 2004, 07:21 AM

The strangest thing that could happen is that you may sleep with a family member - normally an uncle, for north carolinians. UNC-CH graduates seem to be more partial to grandfathers.

WTF? lol.

anyways...
What large performace halls does Columbia have? Is there residential construction downtown?

Tauricorn

October 4th, 2004, 07:29 AM

^Yeah theres the Koger Center for the Arts, the Township auditorium, Newberry Oprea house.

Koger Center for the Arts
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/koger.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/Kogerinside.jpg

And Canalside development along the Congaree river downtown.

Congaree River
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/Columbia%20Skyline/congaree.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/CDC_ND_Canal_Plan_lg.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/86964762500.gif

Heres the website for all the latest development downtown: Columbia City Developments (http://www.columbiadevelopment.org/futureproj_cdc.asp)

Future Projects:

The Vista is growing and changing at an incredible rate; new projects and businesses locate to the area monthly. Many large-scale development projects take years of work behind the scenes before they become public. This section of the CDC website gives a preview of some of these projects... what is being planned and trends in development, both public and private.

Lady Street Condominium Project
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/CDC_FutureProjects_lg.jpg
In 2001, the City of Columbia purchased a nearly half-block parcel in the 900 block of Lady Street to accommodate future parking needs. After the city obligated to build a parking garage on the site, Windsor Aughtry Co. of Greenville SC, proposed to build a residential condominium. The proposed project will offer both daytime and nighttime activity. The company has optioned the property from the city and is currently planning the two-phase project. The condominiums will continue a trend of upscale owner-occupied housing in the neighborhood. Click here to go to the Windsor Aughtry Website.

Riverfront Development
The Vista is blessed with beautiful rivers, as the Broad and Saluda form the confluence of the Congaree River. Only small portions of the riverfront were ever developed, and most of those uses were less than desirable. The River Alliance was created to promote the appropriate redevelopment along the river and facilitate access to the riverfront for Columbia citizens and visitors. The Columbia portion of the 3 Rivers Greenway is funded from a Tax Increment District that provided $17 million to pay for implementation of the plan. Eventually, pathways will run from Granby to the Riverbanks Zoo. Boaters, sportsmen, fishermen will have access to the area, and additional recreational uses are being planned along the miles of riverfront. Click here to go to the River Alliance.

Arsenal Hill
This lovely neighborhood is the last opportunity for the redevelopment of a traditional residential neighborhood in the City of Columbia. Named for the civil war arsenal located at its geographic center, Arsenal Hill is also home to the SC Governor's Mansion and Finlay Park. The Columbia Development Corporation has acquired tracts of vacant land in the neighborhood and is working with the residents to develop new homes that fit the character and scale of the neighborhood.

State Museum IMAX and Planetarium OPT
The SC State Museum is planning a future building expansion that will include an IMAX Theater and Planetarium. While the state of South Carolina has provided some funding for project study and planning, full funding is not anticipated for several years. Concept studies have illustrated how the planetarium and IMAX could be located around the present museum building. It is expected that future studies will show the potential of locating the facilities inside the old Columbia Mills building, in an area presently occupied by the State Department of Revenue. To see concept drawings and learn more about the proposed expansion of the museum click here.

Canal Side
When South Carolina closed Central Carolina Institute, its maximum-security facility, in the 1990's, Columbia's City Council recognized the enormous potential of the 25-acre site. Situated adjacent to the Columbia Canal, Canal Side's acreage is slated for an urban mixed-use redevelopment project, with approximately 80% residential use. Canal Side is a project of the City of Columbia's Economic Development Department.

Early 90's DT ariel
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/Downtown_Aerial1.jpg

Satallite view of Columbia (I know that's spelled wrong)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/7d1scr.jpg

Richland County Public Library (library of the year 2002)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/main_lib4.jpg

A view of the Vista
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/hospitality_left.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/vistabrewingco.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/vista1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/vistalofts.jpg

Vista area lofts
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/CDC_NeighborhoodDev.jpg

More condos going up in the Vista
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/88949842995.jpg

View from Finley Park
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/finlaydtview.jpg

Ariel of 5points
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/5PtAirR.jpg

fountain at 5points in front of Starbucks
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/couple.jpg

Governer's Hill DT
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/Finlay_Park_Fountain_Govenors_Hill.jpg

Seen from Capstone rotating restaurant
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/downtownfromcapstone.bmp

Lake Murray and a few homes there
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/Lake%20Murray/lakemurray.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/Lake%20Murray/RearExtwLake.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/Lake%20Murray/OtisElevator11X14.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/Lake%20Murray/duskExt.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/Lake%20Murray/RearExt.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/tauricorn/Lake%20Murray/BrawleyLKMRY.jpg

waccamatt

October 4th, 2004, 08:18 AM

Well, I am a little biased towards Columbia because I live there, but I just spent a weekend in the Raleigh Durham area for NC Pride. I can honestly say that Columbia has a MUCH better nightlife than Raleigh does. Durham has a much better nightlife than Raleigh. Also, I don't think Raleigh feels much bigger than Columbia. Yes, when you add Durham and Chapel Hill, it is a bigger metro area, but Raleigh by itself is not bigger.

waccamatt

October 4th, 2004, 09:16 AM

I believe someone stated in an earlier post that Raleigh had alot more concert and entertainment options. I do not believe that is true. In the month of April 2004, the Colonil Center in Columbia was the NUMBER ONE GROSSING ARENA FOR CONCERT TICKETS IN THE WORLD. Link Here: Colonial Center (http://uscsports.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/093004aaa.html) The CC was also 22nd in the world for all of 2003, so I don't believe that Raleigh argument holds water. We also have the Koger Arts Center, The Township Auditorium and the Finlay Park Concerts. Columbia has the country's oldest contimuousl operating community theatre in the country (Town Theater) and the only professional theatre in BOTH Carolinas...Trustus Theatre. We also have a world class zoo - Riverbanks Zoo and Botanical Garden, which is consistently one of the top ten zoos in the country. Below are 2 of my favorite pictures of Columbia's skyline. I believe Raleigh has 2 buildings taller than Southtrust, but overall their skyline doesn't compare.

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/downtown%20close%20up%20from%20greystone.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/pano%20from%20I%2077.jpg

IHateBirds

October 4th, 2004, 10:52 AM

good...as a journalism major, i'll tear you a new one in a grammar war. in fact, every post of yours i come across will now be examined and critiqued.

Please do... As an engineer , I expect someone who specializes in our language to find many subtle errors in my posts. My spelling isn't the best, and I often type too fast which results in missing words, etc.

My point about your grammar was in regards to clarity--some of your responses have left me puzzled, including one mentioned below (the voting issue).

I admit my sense of humor is often dark and perhaps a bit dry.

like DT said, i don't come here to make the most serious and proper work of my life, even when arguing for something...i'll save that for law school work.

I guess I hit a sensitive spot there... I didn't mean to insult you like that (if I did at all). That is sincere, not satire.

In a discussion forum I think it is very important to use whatever resources are available to ensure faultless communication. Your short thoughts and sentences weren't doing a very effective job, and I wasn't sure if I should feel offended or amused.

Of course that rule doesn't necessarily apply if one is just "trolling".

and i got your jokes, i just didn't find them funny. try harder.

A lot of southerners don't get my jokes, or jokes in general for that matter.

I got most of your jokes, however I questioned the remarks that I didn't understand. As a problem solver, I am very curious about where communication broke down and why you feel the way that you do. It is logical to assume that a journalist would put maximum emphasis on communication as well.

Also if you want to be a dick to me, you need to try harder. Or perhaps that just doesn't suit you.

and no, you didn't bash Columbia, but you did vote Raleigh and later praise Columbia. may you enlighten us with a clarification please?

Okay, am I to infer that my vote for Raleigh is a negative mark on Columbia? That is completely illogical, and I'm curious as to how you arrived at such a conclusion.

Put your journalism education to work and re-read my posts. Even in my original post where I stated my choice, I was quite honest and positive about Columbia.

it was a joke on my part, one i thought Ihatebirds would've gotten. oh well...

Who said I didn't?

hopefully, we'll all shake hands at the end.

That would certainly be the most desirable outcome. Just keep your response to me mature and stop using those pseudo-witty insults. I'm trying to repair miscommunication here, and I have apologized for every potentially insulting remark that I may have made to you.

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 03:57 PM

and I have apologized for every potentially insulting remark that I may have made to you.

yet you make a new one...

A lot of southerners don't get my jokes, or jokes in general for that matter.

probably assuming i'm so southern i've got a "southern accent" (if i want i can speak in one, but it's not natural.)

I admit my sense of humor is often dark and perhaps a bit dry.

yours too?

Your short thoughts and sentences weren't doing a very effective job, and I wasn't sure if I should feel offended or amused.

you're not the first; i like to keep it short. maybe too short, for some. i think the problem is grammatical masturbation; those who like it don't like my writing, and would rather have me write like oprah.

Also if you want to be a dick to me, you need to try harder. Or perhaps that just doesn't suit you.

no, it doesn't suit me. and i'd rather not be a dick.

Okay, am I to infer that my vote for Raleigh is a negative mark on Columbia? That is completely illogical, and I'm curious as to how you arrived at such a conclusion.

yet you're a "problem solver," and can't honor a simple request of mine? i never said or thought it was a negative "mark" on Columbia; i want to know how and why you voted for Raleigh, other than saying "it suits me better," then throw heaps of praise on Columbia later, much more than your first post.

how and why does it "suit you better?" UNC-CH's presence?

:jk:

-

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 04:25 PM

WTF? lol.

anyways...
What large performace halls does Columbia have? Is there residential construction downtown?

not only is there residential construction downtown, there's a decent amount already there (not including USC housing,) here's some:

Cornell Arms; when built in 1949, tallest apartment building between D.C. and Miami

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34620713.jpg

Claire Towers

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34620712.jpg

Senate Plaza

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/28611089.jpg

Barringer Building's being converted to lofts

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/28611078.jpg

i'm pretty sure this is housing...

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30340207.jpg

there's also the 19-story Heritage (i don't have a pic) and 17-story Marion Street Apartments (pic on another comp;)

there's also a few other high-rises around USC and Five Points, plus the neighborhoods around Five Points (not quite downtown)

in addition to some of the previously-mentioned lofts, there's many more and smaller ones; here's one above a bakery

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30340202.jpg

there's also University neighborhood, another neiborhood (i don't know the name) and the Finley Park neighborhood, in downtown:

University:

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415774.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415853.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415851.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415852.jpg

Finlay Park:

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31416003.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415997.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31416004.jpg

the other hood:

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30415198.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30415196.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30415199.jpg

there's also a lot of housing, built and under construction, in The Vista

more pics to come...

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romec

October 4th, 2004, 04:42 PM

I do not believe that is true. In the month of April 2004, the Colonil Center in Columbia was the NUMBER ONE GROSSING ARENA FOR CONCERT TICKETS IN THE WORLD.

Look at the month, April. Most large arenas have professional obligations (NBA/NHL) and cant book that many concerts in that month. Also keep in mind we have more than 1 venue; Alltell pavillion usually averages a tour a week during the summer in addition to events in the RBC center.

Although #1 in the world sounds exciting, it really means in the US, there really aren't that many large enclosed arena's internationally. (Typically international facilities are open) No venue with obligations to a professional team could get in 6 concerts. Raleigh's arena is shared by State and the NHL so the month of April isn't as heavily booked for concerts in that arena. In other words, we do get the same acts (actually more, but i'm not going to pull up a schedule to verify it right now.) Show me dominating ticket sales in July, then you've got something.

So essentially #1 grossing concert sales in the world in April = of large arena's without a professional team, we sold the most concerts. Most (don't quote me as saying all) large arena's do have a professional team) Feel free, however, to rub Greensboro's nose in it. Wait a second, there are no " home" college basketball games in April (except NIT and women's NCAA) That means for the month of April, your arena only had concerts and a couple of basketball games max. We were busy being an NCAA tournament site :P. (just teasing, its our first time hosting one in a while and we don't have one for 2005 and technically that was in March)

don_king

October 4th, 2004, 05:05 PM

Look at the month, April. Most large arenas have professional obligations (NBA/NHL) and cant book that many concerts in that month. Also keep in mind we have more than 1 venue; Alltell pavillion usually averages a tour a week during the summer in addition to events in the RBC center.

Although #1 in the world sounds exciting, it really means in the US, there really aren't that many large enclosed arena's internationally. (Typically international facilities are open) No venue with obligations to a professional team could get in 6 concerts. Raleigh's arena is shared by State and the NHL so the month of april isn't as heavily booked for concerts in that arena. In other words, we do get the same acts (actually more, but i'm not going to pull up a schedule to verify it right now.) Show me dominating ticket sales in July, then you've got something.

The Carolina center assists us in eliminating choads. They go to a concert, get drunk, piss off our security guards, and are promptly liquidated. Goes along with the murder world theme. An additional sports center with pro football, baseball, and basketball teams are going to further this development. Bring us your choads, and we'll give you their ashes!

Also, I'm tired of these damn yankee-ass companies buying out the names of all the venues in the country. I mean, seriously... Alltel pavillion? The Verizon wireless amphitheater? Yup, lots of history and memories there. "For some reason, that James Brown concert made we want to get down and buy a kyocera and a shitty calling plan for 49.99 a month! I FEEL GOOD!" Give me a break. I hear Yankee stadium is next. They're gonna call it the COLGATE WHITE STRIPS STADIUM! YES! LOVE IT! Can't we do something about this gayness?

romec

October 4th, 2004, 05:18 PM

Oh yeah, another thing about Raleigh.

I'm tired of these damn yankee-ass companies buying out the names of all the venues in the country.

We aren't still mad at the North for the "Northern Aggression"(I swear Virginia's public schools still call it that) of the early 1860's. We also haven't had any recent controversies over a confederate flag flying over our Capitol.

Tauricorn

October 4th, 2004, 05:18 PM

There's the Colonial Center, and the older Carolina Coliseum (or South Carolina Coliseum to those out of state, ha jus playin :) ).

USC/Carolina is also building an ampitheatre incorporated with the new baseball stadium in the Vista, for outdoor concerts.

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 06:04 PM

Oh yeah, another thing about Raleigh.

We aren't still mad at the North for the "Northern Aggression"(I swear Virginia's public schools still call it that) of the early 1860's. We also haven't had any recent controversies over a confederate flag flying over our Capitol.

Raleigh didn't have 1/3 of it burned during the Civil War, unlike Columbia.

and where's the flag now? not on the Capitol. some states address their issues and deal with them publicaly rather than ignoring them.

and who really cares about huge entertainment venues where you're milked for every penny for a bad nosebleed seat? I'd much rather be in a small club where i can have a beer with the band afterwards.
Columbia's got an active local music scene and as i've said and shown in this post, plenty of nice clubs to support it.

Raleigh's is in the Chapel-Hill area.

and like Tauricorn and others said, Columbia's also got big venues if that's your thing.

-

waccamatt

October 4th, 2004, 06:28 PM

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 08:26 PM

How does that compare to the max crowd of 85,000 at Williams-Brice? Your arguments fall flat, Romec.

is attendance still routinely around 80,000 for every game?

-

p.s. Ihatebirds, this question isn't directed to you, but if you've got the answer, please answer.

astro

October 4th, 2004, 09:15 PM

LSyd

October 4th, 2004, 10:31 PM

why can't we see who's voted on this poll, unlike the last ones?

-

waccamatt

October 4th, 2004, 11:15 PM

Lsyd, yes, USC sells out virtually every game and capacity is planned to be expanded to close to 95,000 in the next couple of years.

NCtarheel

October 4th, 2004, 11:18 PM

where are all the pictures of raleigh? There are a lot of columbia but not many of raleigh.

JRQ

October 4th, 2004, 11:48 PM

waccamatt

October 4th, 2004, 11:53 PM

Nobody has posted any. Here are some more downtown Columbia pics, though.

This is the Colonial Center. It seats 18,000 for basketball and 19,000 for concerts.

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/colonial%20center.bmp

This is the South Carolina State House. I won't mention how much nicer and larger it is than the tiny Capitol Building in Raleigh.

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/Capital_At_Night.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/snow2.gif

This is an aerial view of Williams-Brice Stadium.

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/williams-brice-stadium.jpg

This is Main Street looking North from the State House steps. The Meridian Building (u/c in this photo) recently opened. The new First Citizens Building will be in the first block on the right, before the Meridian Building and after the black and white building in the foreground.

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/main%20from%20the%20capitol.jpg

Another view of Williams-Brice Stadium (a/k/a, the WB or the Cockpit)

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/WB%20Pano.jpg

Some more skyline views:

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/another%20pano.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/cbd%20from%20Eau%20Claire.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/cbd%20from%20about%2010%20miles.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/cbd%20pano.jpg

The downtown Arcade Mall on a Sunday morning.

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/arcade%20mall%202.jpg

The Columbia Museum of Art:

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/columbia%20museum%20of%20art%202.jpg

The Palmetto Building, which was opened in 1912 and is being renovated to become a hotel.

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/palmetto%20bldg.jpg

The Richland County Public Library Main Branch. This was the National Library of The Year a couple of years ago.

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/richland%20county%20library%202.jpg

The Five Points Arts and Entertainment area, which has just begun a $10 million+ beautification project:

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/5%20points%20fountain.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/5%20points%20on%20a%20sunday%20evening.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/more%205%20points.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/saluda%20ave%205%20points.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/harden%20st%205%20points.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/the%206th%20point%20in%205%20points.jpg

Below are pictures of Columbia's Congaree Vista Arts and Entertainment area. The Vista is booming with the new Columbia Convention Center, many new condos, homes and apartments, the Convention Center's Hilton Hotel about to begin construction and lots of nightlife. "The Vista" is adjacent to the CBD.

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/more%20vista%20clubs%20and%20restaurant.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/vista%20publix.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/vista.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/vista%20clubs.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/vista%20brewing%20co.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/finlay%20park.bmp

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/columbia%20conv%20center.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/congaree%20vista%20area.JPG

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/gervais%20at%20main.JPG

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/waccamatt/04%20sc%20pride%201.JPG

Tauricorn

October 4th, 2004, 11:55 PM

I have to say, since coming to this forum I have developed a much greater appreciation for Columbia. The more I hear about and see the city the more I like it. Columbia really seems to have a lot to offer and without perhaps many of the headaches of a much larger city. The skyline shots are really cool! I'm a bit jealous. Columbia has really started to grow on me.

Cool deal astro!

That's what it's all about perspectives, seeing things in a different light that you may have glanced at before.

As I said earlier I'm really surprised by all the support Columbia received.

It may not win this competition but I don't think anyone can read this thread and write it off as a humdrum metro. Certain cities may be up to bat, but Columbia is definitely on deck. For me the best way to determine how successful an area is to measure where it is today and where it was yesterday. Ten years ago Columbia wouldn't have even been mentioned as a "best place to live", had a vibrant nightlife, a world ranked indoor venue (Colonial Center), or thought about bringing high-tech industry to the area (USC fuel-cell research campus), just goes to show what can happen when you get up off your ass and manifest it.

At the beginning I wouldn't have thought it would have been this close. That speaks very well for Columbia since it is not as recognized as RDU. Sometimes quantity doesn't matter all you need is what counts in the right places to make an impact (that goes for either town).

Who knows in the next decade or so if everything jumps off here like it is planned out to do Columbia may be outpacing RDU.

I know all nay sayers will say no-way that can happen but who would of thought 20 years ago that Charlotte, & RDU would be in the spotlight today.

Life is what it is!

Alright, I'm off the:soapbox:now!

waccamatt

October 5th, 2004, 12:00 AM

We aren't still mad at the North for the "Northern Aggression"(I swear Virginia's public schools still call it that) of the early 1860's. We also haven't had any recent controversies over a confederate flag flying over our Capitol.

Actually, Romec, that flag has been removed from the State House dome and is not supported by many people who live in Columbia. In fact, the city of Columbia sued the state in an action to help remove it from our city.

romec

October 5th, 2004, 02:33 AM

Where to begin where to begin. . .

Actually, Romec, that flag has been removed from the State House dome and is not supported by many people who live in Columbia. In fact, the city of Columbia sued the state in an action to help remove it from our city.

I know that its been removed. I stated that we haven't had a "recent" issue with a confederate flag over our capitol. I think the point I was making is that you made it to the 21st century with the confederate flag flying over your capitol.

Going to a Virginia Public High School, I can tell you that is not true. Maybe you're thinking of your own state, or SC. States that still have a fairly large population of rednecks.

O.k. A little hyperbole on my part; but guess what, I'm a native Virginian!
I do know that some textbooks as late as the 80's did have that phrase though.

Columbia has Speaking of stadiums, what is the largest crowd ever at NC State's Carter-Finley Stadium? 50,000? 55,000? How does that compare to the max crowd of 85,000 at Williams-Brice?
You have a larger football stadium. . . . touché. We aren't exactly football country, much more geared towards basketball around these parts. Thats bigger than NCSU, UNC or Dook's football stadium.

Well Romec, you didn't read all of my post because I also pointed out that the Colonial Center ranked 22nd in the world for all of 2003 in ticket sales. Those figures take out all of USC's men's and women's basketball games, along with other University events held there. You also tried to make a point that Raleigh has other arenas..well so does Columbia. We have Carolina Coliseum, the Koger Center, The Township Auditorium, Finlay Park Amphitheatre and Williams-Brice Stadium. Speaking of stadiums, what is the largest crowd ever at NC State's Carter-Finley Stadium? 50,000? 55,000? How does that compare to the max crowd of 85,000 at Williams-Brice? Your arguments fall flat, Romec.

Ok first yeah in the world sounds great, but remember this is heavily US Biased, 22nd in the world is actually #18th in the US. As I stated originally, not having a professional team gives you more room to book acts. the Colonial Center was ranked ahead of the Staples Center, American airlines arena and pepsi arena (denver). http://trustees.sc.edu/minutes/comm-min/exe011504.htm
Does Columbia get more acts than LA, Denver, and Dallas??? No, just a greater percentage of them happen in the Colonial center. I mentioned our second major venue because we have a lot of our shows there. 1) The pollstar ranking is for arenas (not amphitheaters) 2) The RBC center does not get the majority of our tours/concerts and would probably rank lower on the list because of that. Overall though, With our two major facilities we get as much if not more traffic than Columbia.

Speaking of venues, I only mentioned 2. There are other facilities in Raleigh. I didn't mention them because they aren't major tour stops.

, but I just spent a weekend in the Raleigh Durham area for NC Pride. I can honestly say that Columbia has a MUCH better nightlife than Raleigh does. Durham has a much better nightlife than Raleigh. Also, I don't think Raleigh feels much bigger than Columbia.

You were here a weekend and you were able to gain that much insight into the city. Perhaps you just didn't know where to go???

I'm romec, and I approve this message.

Now someone call me a flip-flopper or a liar so I can get my spin writers on it.

waccamatt

October 5th, 2004, 03:52 AM

Romec, you have a way of only reading what you want from my posts, so I will elaborate. I have been to Raleigh many times and actually dated a guy there for awhile, so I have spent a great deal of time in Raleigh and I haven't seen anywhere near the nightlife that we have in Columbia.

LSyd

October 5th, 2004, 04:12 AM

Now someone call me a flip-flopper or a liar so I can get my spin writers on it.

liar liar pants on fire, now get to work. :tongue:

I have been to Raleigh many times and actually dated a guy there for awhile, so I have spent a great deal of time in Raleigh and I haven't seen anywhere near the nightlife that we have in Columbia.

i've been to Raleigh for a few shows, and had a friend who went to school there and did a radio show similar to mine at the school. by all comparisons, Raleigh just wasn't as rockin' as Columbia.

-

romec

October 5th, 2004, 04:32 AM

Romec, you have a way of only reading what you want from my posts,

Raleigh many times . . . great . . . and I haven't seen . . . the nightlife in Columbia.

Once again, my opponent flip-flopping.

I'm romec, and I approve this message.

Truce? If Raleigh wins, we can double team Charlotte and Atlanta?
If Raleigh loses we're asking for a recount.

LSyd

October 5th, 2004, 04:44 AM

here's some more Columbia nightlife pics, this time from inside the New Brookland Tavern (http://www.newbrooklandtavern.com/main.html) with locally-based, regional cult band Confederate Fagg playing (a side project of Guyana Punch Line)

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641666.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641669.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641690.jpg

i'll take an intimate venue like New Brookland Tavern, Art Bar, and whatever else is still open in Columbia, and Raleigh can have all the mega stadiums with pro-sports teams on the side they like and worry about driving all the way to Chapel Hill for a cool show.

-

waccamatt

October 5th, 2004, 04:46 AM

I'd bet Romec is a repub too.

Tauricorn

October 5th, 2004, 04:53 AM

Raleigh has one pro-team, and from what I understand they may be moving to Charlotte. At least that's what I heard? I think it was because the area couldn't fill up the arena?

But I heard it from the infamous "they' so I could be wrong.

Then agian we lost the bombers.

But we may still yet get another team for C-town.

romec

October 5th, 2004, 05:15 AM

I'd bet Romec is a repub too.

No name calling. I'm actually an independent that is leaning strongly to the left for this upcoming election.

Raleigh has one pro-team, and from what I understand they may be moving to Charlotte.
Moving to Charlotte?? I haven't heard that one. Although I wouldn't throw any guarantees of the Hurricanes being in Raleigh long term. The team is losing money. It's not really a Raleigh problem as much as it is an NHL problem. The team is actually losing less money during the lockout. Unfortunately the lockout will hurt our fanbase and the NHL fanbase across the country.

Also I can't vouch for Raleigh's smaller music scene, but it doesn't mean its not there.

LSyd

October 5th, 2004, 05:19 AM

Truce? If Raleigh wins, we can double team Charlotte and Atlanta?
If Raleigh loses we're asking for a recount.

don't quit your day job and become a spin doctor... :)

the double teaming'd happen anyway.

now that we're on a new page, more pics time:

downtown/USC pics:

rehabbed train station into restaurant, California Dreamin'

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638661.jpg

out of date 360 pano from the top of Cornell Arms, from may 2003; Meridian's still under construction (some other construction going on now hasn't even begun yet)

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641647/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638673.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641664.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641660.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641663.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641662.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641661.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638714.jpg

the Sherlock Holmes cafe/pub's great; in the basement of the 1912 Palmetto Building, it's like going back to the 1890s inside

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638713.jpg

more of University Neighborhood

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638668.jpg

USC decided to preserve two buildings and incorporate them into its hotel (anyone have updates on the construction? i saw foundation work in May...)

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638666.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638669.jpg

recent green space at USC; tearing down warehouses in central campus

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/30326320.jpg

Elmwood, neighborhood adjacent to downtown

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638708.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638674.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638707.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638706.jpg

some Vista shots (entertainment/mixed area adjacent to downtown)

Publix, in the Confederate mint building, before renovation was finished

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638703.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638715.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638717.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638716.jpg

Five Points

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641665.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34638705.jpg

skyline stuff...some out of date because they were done before Meridian was finished

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641649/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641651/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641654/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641655/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641652/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641653/original.jpg

old pano by DrumCorpsAlum

http://www.pbase.com/image/34641656/original.jpg

a couple more snow pics

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641658.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641657.jpg

lunar eclipse shot

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/34641694.jpg

-

waccamatt

October 5th, 2004, 05:19 AM

Actually, it was a joke, Romec, but I'm glad you're leaning left. <G>

Tauricorn

October 5th, 2004, 05:27 AM

Moving to Charlotte?? I haven't heard that one. Although I wouldn't throw any guarantees of the Hurricanes being in Raleigh long term. The team is losing money. It's not really a Raleigh problem as much as it is an NHL problem. The team is actually losing less money during the lockout. Unfortunately the lockout will hurt our fanbase and the NHL fanbase across the country.

Also I can't vouch for Raleigh's smaller music scene, but it doesn't mean its not there.

I knew that I had heard something along those lines, but yeah I heard Charlotte, but like I said don't know how accurate the source was?

Tauricorn

October 5th, 2004, 05:35 AM

Lsyd your's killing me with those panos man. Awesome!

IHateBirds

October 5th, 2004, 09:59 AM

Wow, I worked late in my cube and missed two pages of stuff!

probably assuming i'm so southern i've got a "southern accent" (if i want i can speak in one, but it's not natural.)

Errr, I'm glad you stayed with liberal arts... with assumptions like that, you'd make a lousy engineer. :lol:

yet you're a "problem solver," and can't honor a simple request of mine?

What desire? The one that you have just now explained? :lol:

Turn it around every which way you desire. I am 100% confident that every square nanometer of my "stuff" is documented and very clearly explained. Instead of playing this little intellectual game--which you will lose, I assure you--play nice and endeavor to promote understanding.

i never said or thought it was a negative "mark" on Columbia; i want to know how and why you voted for Raleigh, other than saying "it suits me better,"

Umm, perhaps you should re-read everything I wrote in the beginning. I pretty much summed up the decision in my first post and I was very honest. Not only that, but I gave Columbia some positive points in that very post. Later on I added some specifics about my first visit to Columbia, in the spirit of the conversation.

Perhaps you missed some of that in the flotsam that surfaced since then? It is understandable. Unfortunately I stepped in the middle of a competative discussion between you and another forumer, and I believe you have projected some of your assumptions and defensive posture onto me. It is destructive and entirely unnecessary.

how and why does it "suit you better?" UNC-CH's presence?

First of all, I have never had any love for UNC-CH. I attended NCSU but even at the time (approaching 10 years ago) I was never into the school pride crap.

How can I accurately represent a school of nearly 30,000 students? I am confident that I attended an excellent school, but I'm not about to get into some moot pissing contest as to how it stacks up against another university. I'll let someone else fight that battle. I just want to express my rather insignificant opinion without being hammered with questions and doubt.

^This is actually what prompted the republican joke. I felt as though the rather humble and positive comments accompanying my vote were being questioned in a "you're wrong" kind of tone, which is entirely unacceptable, period. Obviously it is miscommunication, as I assume you are open-minded enough to realize not everyone will agree 100% of the time.

LSyd

October 5th, 2004, 03:53 PM

Errr, I'm glad you stayed with liberal arts... with assumptions like that, you'd make a lousy engineer.

journalism's not in liberal arts, genius...with assumptions like that, you'd be lousy at reporting.

:hahaha:

First of all, I have never had any love for UNC-CH.

you didn't get the obvious sarcasm in the mention of UNC-CH then? sad man, sad. :hahaha:

I am 100% confident that every square nanometer of my "stuff" is documented and very clearly explained.

explained? not very well; any one else not fully understanding this guy?

Lsyd your's killing me with those panos man. Awesome!

thanks man.

-

IHateBirds

October 6th, 2004, 09:00 AM

journalism's not in liberal arts, genius...with assumptions like that, you'd be lousy at reporting.

Heh, I figured journalism would fall into that category... oh well--I learn something new everyday.

I realize you might have thought that comeback was rather witty, but it is not a logical statement--unless of course your brand of "reporting" involves assumptions.

you didn't get the obvious sarcasm in the mention of UNC-CH then? sad man, sad.

Another faulty assumption--I was most certainly well aware of the "poke"... On the other hand I felt compelled to say something factual on the subject just in case you were beginning to confuse me with the other guy. The way things have gone with you thus far, I thought it best to cover every angle.

The "sad" part here is how horrible you are at constructing comebacks. :lol:

Anywho...

On another note, you do take really great pictures--right up there with Randy I believe. Keep up the excellent work.

texasboy

October 6th, 2004, 01:55 PM

Raleigh wins. Who's next.

LSyd

October 6th, 2004, 04:04 PM

Raleigh wins. Who's next.

isn't it a great thing when a city that gets attention mostly for its MSA and the snobby, overpriced schools within, having had hardly any promotion in this contest, barely wins?

:fart: :toilet:

congrats Raleigh.

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waccamatt

October 6th, 2004, 07:23 PM

I'm still staying in Columbia, thank you.

krazeeboi

June 19th, 2005, 03:08 AM

I voted for Ralumbia. LOL

Being a South Carolinian, I'm partial to my stomping grounds of Columbia. But you absoutely CANNOT ignore the huge impact that RTP has economically. So that's definitely a plus for Raleigh. However, I think that Columbia's proposed research campus will have a bigger effect on the city itself, economically and in terms of downtown activity/revitalization.

From what I've read, it seems as though Columbia has more DT activity than Raleigh (although Columbia desperately needs to work on Main Street, which its in the process of doing). Also, the RBC Center in Raleigh isn't located downtown unlike the Colonial Center in Columbia.

As far as a "creative class" cluster, Raleigh wins that one due to the number of colleges and universities in the area. But USC can definitely hold its own.

Columbia has a TON of projects on its plate right now that will literally change the face of the city in 5-10 years: check them out here (http://www.thestateonline.com/news/pdfs/connecting.pdf) (it doesn't mention the baseball stadium to be built downtown behind the Colonial Center). The only things that I'm familiar with in Raleigh in terms of projects and developments are the new convention center to be completed somewhere around 2007 (and I'm sure it will be QUITE impressive) and a proposed tower in Crabtree (which is not downtown). I think a new hotel is in the works as well.

If one desires a larger sense of place, I'm sure Raleigh provides that, being in a larger MSA and CSA. But that in itself doesn't determine how "urban" an area feels.

Being that both cities are state capitals, I'm sure that they're quite competitive in terms of cultural amenities. As far as natural boundaries go, Columbia has that advantage; natural recreational opportunties abound there (3 rivers, a lake, a national swamp, the last of its kind in the US).

Well, these are my objective observations. Take them for what they're worth.

willrusso

June 19th, 2005, 04:12 AM

Photos courtesy of Flash http://www.raleighskyline.com

http://raleighskyline.com/images/03.18.05/29.jpg

http://www.raleighskyline.com/gallery/photos/photo30.jpg

http://www.raleighskyline.com/gallery/photos/photo65.jpg

http://www.raleighskyline.com/gallery/photos/photo57.jpg

http://www.raleighskyline.com/gallery/photos/photo44.jpg

http://www.raleighskyline.com/gallery/photos/photo62.jpg

http://www.raleighskyline.com/images/04.19.05/raleigh.skyline.apr.05.47.jpg

http://www.raleighskyline.com/images/04.19.05/raleigh.skyline.apr.05.53.jpg

http://www.raleighskyline.com/images/04.19.05/raleigh.skyline.apr.05.55.jpg

JRQ

June 19th, 2005, 04:16 AM

Who thinks we need to start these up again???? Lol :)

We actually never did get to finish, and I did get permission to go ahead with these......maybe if I moved them to the VS forum......:)

krazeeboi

June 19th, 2005, 05:19 AM

I resurrected it, I'm guilty....had nothing else to do. LOL.

I wouldn't have thought the votes would've been so evenly split. Cool.

Tauricorn

June 19th, 2005, 05:47 AM

I haven't seen this thread in a while, it lives!

krazeeboi

June 19th, 2005, 05:55 AM

Yes it is yet alive.

DT Raleigh looks cool at night.

TarheelsCubs

June 19th, 2005, 06:41 PM

I did not read this thread. Because its to large. I love Columbia, its a great city. But there is no way Columbia has more nightlife than Raleigh. Raleigh is one of the largest college towns in the United States. Do I even need to make a list of all the colleges here??? Theres like 20. There is always a party, lots of nightclubs, great concerts...etc

Heres a list of bands that were just here or coming

The Pixies were here last Sunday
Dinosaur Jr is coming
Violent Femmes are coming
Coldplay is coming
Modest mouse
Interpol was here a few months ago
Green day is coming this summer

I am sure I left out some other bands. We also have Chapel Hill, which has the Cats Cradle. Which is famous in its own rights.

So, if u compare Columbia and Raleigh's nightlife, I do not think there is a comparison. I think Raleigh wins easy. When it comes to beauty of downtowns I would give the edge to Columbia. :)

Tauricorn

June 19th, 2005, 07:29 PM

Well the nightlife comparison is usually subjective but there are a number of colleges in the greater Columbia area as well (SC State, Newberry Coll., Presbyterian, Clafflin, Midlands Tech etc., no they may not be as large as UNC, or Duke but they are along the same size as Shaw, NCCU, etc. I've been to Raleigh-Durham several times, but I haven't "hung out" in Raleigh or metro Raleigh-Durham for that matter so I can't objectively say that one town has one up on the other I just know that C-lum has a pretty good night time vibe going on in the Vista, and 5 points. Can't tell you the names of the bands that are coming or that have played there recentlly but it is a blip on the radar for live music, for what its worth Hootie got there start there (5 points).

LSyd

June 19th, 2005, 07:40 PM

shouldn't you be at summer camp?

since you didn't read the thread, this is supposed to be city vs. city, hence Chapel Hill/Carborro/Cat's Cradle.

plus all your lovely colleges are again, in the sprawl-metro, while USC, Benedict/Allen, and Columbia College are all within walking distance of downtown, not to mention a city Midlands Tech campus (plus the nearby main campus by the airport, technically in the metro.)

as far your list and "thoughts" on nightlife...

OMG, COLDPLAY!!! :puke:

Modest Mouse played Columbia years ago. a few times. before they got big and crap.

Dinosaur Jr.'s going to be at Carborro/Chapel Hill, at the Cat's Cradle. (they also played Columbia in the past, and the main dude was at the college station while i was there while on his solo tour.)

Green Day's cool, i'm glad i saw 'em years ago at a smaller setting.

Interpol? big deal.

nightlife's more than big concerts, or college parties. granted Chapel Hill had a great alternative music scene, but that's not Raleigh. and UNC isn't in Raleigh, it's in Chapel Hill...again, City vs. City, not sprawling metro vs. metro.

go study for the SAT. :tongue4:

-

p.s./edit: as far as bands getting popular now, Crossfade, originally from Columbia, is getting a lot of air play on alternative radio.

TarheelsCubs

June 19th, 2005, 08:13 PM

LSyd

June 19th, 2005, 08:37 PM

ROTFL

you obviously know nothing about Raleigh. You obviously have no taste in music.

I was just listing bands that have been here within the last month or getting ready to come to Raleigh. Lol, u think Green day is the best out of the list???? You think they are better than Coldplay?? ROTFLAagin

I bet u like good charlotte and taking back sunday right? lol

you have no clue dude...you obviously no little of the world.

rofl...while i'll admit my favorite taste of music's offensive and attrocious to most ears, it's nothing like good charlotte or taking back sunday.

mind you i was in college radio for 5 years.

my favorite band out of that list? i don't really care for any of them, although i hate modest mouse and don't care for coldplay.

lol, u are 1@m3. :bash:

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spencer114

June 19th, 2005, 09:07 PM

Raleigh is just lame.

I was at the Interpol show there (to see Blonde Redhead). The venue was located in an industrial park (not cool industrial but lame 1980's) miles from downtown, nestled between weeds and fast food establishments.

I was dating a guy from Raleigh for the last 11 months. Trying to find something to do was like pulling teeth. It's a nice place to have a crappy office park job and has some nice grocery stores (and there are some nice older homes), but there is nothing unique, interesting or worthwhile there.

College town? A bunch of students doesn't make a place a college town. The triangle is a bastion of white, preppy, baby making drones. Rock on Raleigh!

TarheelsCubs

June 19th, 2005, 09:51 PM

romec

June 20th, 2005, 12:40 AM

Please, Please PLEASE, let this thread die.

I think we all learned from the vs threads that Nooga is the NYC of the south, Columbia has the greatest entertainment district ever and Sprawleigh might have a population density similar to Montana.

Sheesh, and I thought I knew what the term "booster" meant before I came to this forum. Appreciate what your city has, but it doesn't have to be better than every other city. Additionally, sprawl isn't the end of the world. Sprawl is all about economics: if you don't have boundaries (physical or governmental) you get sprawl because developers want to maximize their money. Guess what, eventually people get tired of being 30 minutes away from everything and sitting in traffic for a 2 hour commute and they move to urban developments. So yes everyone on this forum knows that sprawl is a bad thing (tm), but guess what???

If your city is growing and isn't bound by mountains, swamps, water or development limits YOU HAVE SPRAWL!

gwiATLeman

June 20th, 2005, 04:13 AM

Being that both cities are state capitals, I'm sure that they're quite competitive in terms of cultural amenities. As far as natural boundaries go, Columbia has that advantage; natural recreational opportunties abound there (3 rivers, a lake, a national swamp , the last of its kind in the US).

Well, these are my objective observations. Take them for what they're worth.

In the few months I've been on these forums I've seen all kinds of things listed as reasons why a particular city is the greatest known to mankind.........

a national swamp is a first

I'm sure its a lovely swamp, better than any state or regional swamp could ever hope to be, the loveliest in all the land.......but maybe something about the connotations of the word swamp makes me think you should probably leave this one off the list in the future. :whisper:

waccamatt

June 20th, 2005, 04:41 AM

I thought we were rid of this thread. Both cities have fine attributes, but I find Columbia to be a bit cooler than Raleigh...thus I live here. Raleigh is still all right, but Durham and Chapel Hill are cooler. NC State is, well, the Clemson of North Carolina. j/k :)

LSyd

June 20th, 2005, 04:47 AM

you have never been to hillsborough st I guess spencer. Theres plenty to do in Raleigh. It would take most of the day to list all the nightclubs, great restaurants, and bars. If you like Broadway plays, we have those to. So there is something for everyone.

About the Ritz on Industrial drive...who gives a crap where its located! Its a great venue to see a show and thats all that matters. We also have the Lincoln theatre downtown, which also has a lot of good bands from time to time. The ritz has host so many amazing bands in the past.

Lol...crossfade? Your proud of them? there just another crappy creed, sister Hazel, Puddle of Mudd, etc...sound alikes. They played in downtown Raleigh(in the street) a few months back

I like music with some originality, and melody. It does not matter to me if the band is mainstream, or underground. If there music is good, who cares?

BTW, I saw Green Day for the first time back in 1992, before Dookie.

I just cant imagine somebody not liking Coldplay!

i thought the ritz was a kickass venue.

crossfade, from what i've heard on the radio, is tolerable for heavy alternative. far better than puddle of mudd. i don't know though how you're comparing sister hazel to puddle of mudd or creed...one sounds nothing like the other two. i don't give a shit about pride relating to them or not, i just like to see a decent-enough band from the area getting success.

i don't like coldplay, i don't really hate coldplay, mostly i think they're overrated.

i can't imagine somebody who can't imagine somebody not liking coldplay...what a sick, sad world we live in. :badnews:

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TarheelsCubs

June 20th, 2005, 05:44 AM

"i don't know though how you're comparing sister hazel to puddle of mudd or creed"

I'm not comparing the music, I comparing the horrible lead singers voices. The majority of these newer mainstream rock alternative bands all have the same miserable voices. Starting in 1996 to the current day.

You think Coldplay is overrated? Maybe you should try listening to them one more time. There is nothing overrated about them. In fact, When I heard their first two albums I liked them but never considered them one of my favorite bands. The new album is simply amazing though. The sound is a little different and the music for the most part is faster. Its a complete masterpiece.

"i can't imagine somebody who can't imagine somebody not liking coldplay...what a sick, sad world we live in."

Thats funny u say that........condsidering you are always making the same kind of comments only on a different subject.

As usual though, you started the entire thing. You love confrontation don't you? your right...what a "sad world we live in"

How many posts have u made hear now???? lol My My, where do we get the time?

LSyd

June 20th, 2005, 05:50 AM

time flies when you're having fun.

and i figured this time i might as well start "the confrontation," although i don't consider it that. instead of having you pipe into a random thread with an "LSyd hates North Carolina, and lives in the crime-ridden cesspool of Birmingham."

and as you're so fond of saying though, it's opinion...and a lot of music does boil down to opinion. i'd rather listen to something else than coldplay, as it doesn't suit my fancy.

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TarheelsCubs

June 20th, 2005, 05:55 AM

romec

June 20th, 2005, 06:02 AM

I'm only typing this because he's gonna burn you on it.
Tarheels cubs meant city limits when he said metro, "What about all those colleges in Raleigh's city limits?"

TarheelsCubs

June 20th, 2005, 06:23 AM

Yeah romec,

I meant near downtown raleigh, not the entire metro area. That would make the list of colleges even larger. Thanks for the clarification. Not that it matters though. He would have found some way to trash Raleigh anyway, like he always does. I only responded to this thread to give my opinion on Raleigh over Columbia. I said Raleigh has a better nightlife but Columbia's downtown is nicer. Of course that was not good enough for him. I just do not see how the nightlife in Columbia can be better than Raleigh...sorry

spencer114

June 20th, 2005, 06:42 AM

I have spent more than enough time on Hillsboro Street to know that it's as white bread as streets get, not bad, easy to digest but vapid.

I do like Jackpot. It's a great bar. Kings is alright. Five star is cool. The overall experience of bar hopping there is, well, depressing. Nice places lose their appeal when the isolation gets factored in.

There is good stuff in Raleigh. There's just too much that isn't in-between it all. That's a buzz killer. And none of the "cool" places seem authentic. The atmosphere and the people seem really poser to me.

Coldplay isn't overrated. It's pop music. It sin't very intersting but sounds good as background music at Aplebees. Praise seems inline with the taste of the general public.

TarheelsCubs

June 20th, 2005, 06:51 AM

romec

June 20th, 2005, 07:29 AM

TarheelsCubs

June 20th, 2005, 07:40 AM

Ok just once again beating them to it before they burn you on it. A) bad idea to go grammar police on a forum. it self -> itself your -> you're.
Furthermore, this isn't geared at anyone in particular, but I think its hilarious how you all are basing the "coolness" of an area based on the type of music that you all like. There are very few people I think that are well rounded enough to even start comparing the "nightlife" of different cities. Just so I'm picking on everyone equally; Spencer 114 : it is Hillsborough Street.
Furthermore,pretty narrow minded to make general statements about a metro based on your limited visits to it. "Raleigh is just lame"? If you lived here a few years, AND tried every TYPE of bar/club, fair statement. Just because you can't find what you are looking for doesn't mean that others can't find what they are looking for.

Any grammatical/spelling error is a typo. . .

Romec,

"Any grammatical/spelling error is a typo."

very true. However, spency had like 20 errors though. This had nothing to do with music. Just Lysd and his usual hatred of NC. Thats it. Ask Lysd how much time he has spent in Raleigh. If you go back and read I said positive things about Columbia. I just think Raleigh has more of a nightlife..that does not just include clubs and music. It includes plays and pro sports.

Another thing, I have never had arguments with anyone on this board but Lysd, and just now spence. When it comes to Lysd and his sometimes retarted comments about North Carolina, I'm going to correct him.

waccamatt

June 20th, 2005, 07:50 AM

...this is downright amazing.

:badnews: :horse:

spencer114

June 20th, 2005, 02:50 PM

I think that spending roughly 40 days in a city does afford one a pretty good idea about what it has to offer. If it takes more than 40 visits to find something interesting, the before mentioned city has a problem. Raleigh is a short drive from here. I’ve found myself there on occasion a couple times a year over the past 10-15 years. As mentioned earlier, for the past 11 months I’ve been spending no fewer than 4 days a month there.

BTW, I wasn’t aware that I was fighting w/ anyone, just expressing my opinion about a place that I’ve come to know very well and dislike very much.

LSyd

June 20th, 2005, 03:23 PM

Whatever dude, Your horrible grammar speaks for it self. Your just another poster trying to stir up trouble. Your comment about Coldplay proves that. Don't bother responding because I am officially ignoring you.

Posers??? lol

I bet anything your the poser

---------------------------------------

When it comes to Lysd and his sometimes retarted comments about North Carolina, I'm going to correct him.

i could go on with further examples, but you saying someone else has bad grammar is like the pot calling the kettle black. :bash: you need to learn the difference between "your" and "you're."

again, there's the paranoia of "LSyd hates North Carolina, so i must defend it." oh no, poor NC, it can't handle someone with a dissenting opinion that it's not utopia.

again though, i figured i'd start the discussion this time (and that's what it is) instead of waiting for a cheap shot about how i hate NC or currently live in what you think is a crime-infested city.

-

Raleigh-NC

June 20th, 2005, 04:33 PM

First of all, let me say that so far I have been impressed with the representation that Columbia has received. I loved the photos posted here and I must say that Columbia residents have lots to be proud of. It seems that the place is heading to the right direction (based on what I hear and see) and I would not hesitate visiting Columbia any day.

Raleigh, a city that I know better, can sometimes appear as an overrated place, which is true in some ways. The quality of life is great and the options (entertainment, housing, work, shopping) are many. The lack of urbanity may be placed in the back burner, due to the great qualities of this city, but this is slowly changing. Just like ANY fast growing city, Raleigh suffered from the continuous sprawl that reached the maximum in its 90's, but the focus is shifting back to downtown and the establishment of a midtown area - North Hills and Crabtree Valley are currently competing for the title. DT Raleigh is definitely a happening place, a far cry from what it was 10 years ago. The city has been "trapped" between the big city attitude and the small town charm, which is why we say that Raleigh needs to decide what it wants to be when it grows up. The lack of a strong skyline may give people the impression that the city falls short of expectations, but this is far from the truth. As developers focus more on downtown and the nearby neighborhoods (e.g. Cameron Village, Hillsborough Street, Five Points) it will become more evident that what the city lacks in skyline, more than gains in true potential and direction. But even as is, Raleigh can win many "city vs. city" threads. If anything, it has the pace and the ongoing momentum to prove this.

As for entertainment options, it is laughable to even claim that Raleigh is behind. The problem we have is not lack of options but lack of established entertainment districts. Glenwood South is the up and coming area, while City Market/Moore Square and Warehouse District are holding their own. Hillsborough Street is no longer what it used to be, but it is slowly trying to come back as a destination [mostly] for students. Another thing one may notice is the lack of connectivity between the entertainment districts. While there is a trolley-looking bus that drives people around during the weekends (evenings only), an improved pedestrian flow needs to be addressed. In the past I have seen many people walking from one district to another, but this can be improved a lot. A few projects are under way and will hopefully fill in a few gaps here and there. The reopening of Fayetteville Street is also a great thing; 10 days ago I drove by there late in the evening and saw several groups of people crossing Fayetteville Street and creating pedestrian activity in areas previously dead.

I think that both Columbia and Raleigh can provide interesting venues for most visitors. While they still have work to do in revitalizing areas that are dominated by eyesores and parking lots, both cities have rediscovered their charming self and try to grow without sacrificing whatever history they have left. Unless big corporations and residential developers make their presence to the core of the two cities, urban sprawl will be the only thing to watch and fight hard against. Other than that, both cities have a great present and a very promising future. Raleigh will have an edge when it comes to population, but that is another story.

(Note: I didn't want to flood this thread with my photos. Anyone interested can visit my gallery of images, accessible through my signature below.)

IHateBirds

June 20th, 2005, 06:32 PM

I've been going out more in the past 3 weeks than I have in about 5 years. Not only does Raleigh seem like a completely different city to me (due to evolution), but I have found that the best places (IMO) aren't in Glenwood South at all--they are scattered about downtown and the vicinity. Raleigh has a surprisingly cosmopolitan scene--something I did not expect or even consider as a possibility.

Raleigh-NC

June 20th, 2005, 06:50 PM

You are correct, IHateBirds... This is exactly what will help Raleigh escape the typical downtown vs. suburban attitude. The area has already begun to see a variety of "cosmopolitan" attitudes, and not only inside the boundaries of downtown. Just like most cities below 500,000, Raleigh doesn't reveal itself to the newcomers, but it takes a while to realize what it truly has to offer. Hence, the impression that nothing really happens here. We cannot claim anything of great magnitude, but we do ask people to give Raleigh a chance and not be fooled by its suburban side.

LSyd

June 20th, 2005, 06:55 PM

two of my friends from Charleston who did job training in Raleigh and Charlotte both said they preferred Raleigh's bars and nightlife.

when i asked one how it compared to Columbia, he said he liked Columbia better though.

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krazeeboi

June 20th, 2005, 08:55 PM

In the few months I've been on these forums I've seen all kinds of things listed as reasons why a particular city is the greatest known to mankind........

a national swamp is a first

I'm sure its a lovely swamp, better than any state or regional swamp could ever hope to be, the loveliest in all the land.......but maybe something about the connotations of the word swamp makes me think you should probably leave this one off the list in the future. :whisper:

My initial post had absolutely nothing to do with listing reasons as to why the city of Columbia is "the greatest known to mankind'; as a matter of fact, I tried to be objective when comparing the two cities (despite my love for my capital city, if I was offered a job at RTP, I'd move there in a heartbeat). In context (that's important), I was listing Columbia's natural boundaries which give residents opportunities for natural recreation. The Congaree National Park (http://www.columbiasouthcarolina.com/congaree.html) (it's not truly a swamp, although commonly referred to as such), while not something that exactly makes tourists flock to the area in droves, is a 22,200-acre park that protects the largest contiguous tract of old-growth bottomland hardwood forest remaining in the entire country; it is also a designated International Biosphere Reserve. Six trails in the park provide over 18 miles of hiking, and canoeing, primitive camping, and fishing are allowed activties as well. So not only do we have the immense ecological importance of such an area, but also recreational/educational opportunities associated with this as well. THIS is the context of my listing of the Congaree National Park; no more, no less.

So even though this may not mean much to you, as one who is biologically/ecologically minded, it means much to me and is actually a plus for this area in that regard. The fact that the swamp has a "national" designation testifies to the federal government's commitment in preserving such a natural treasure, one that just so happens to be in the Columbia area and adds to the natural charm of the area.

JRQ

June 20th, 2005, 09:20 PM

Raleigh just has a suburban, wanna-be prep image that will take alot of work to get rid of.

LSyd

June 20th, 2005, 09:20 PM

^ nevermind the Atalantatude, Congaree Swamp's great.

-

krazeeboi

June 20th, 2005, 09:29 PM

scguy

June 20th, 2005, 09:35 PM

I Have only been to Raliegh once in the past few years and it was a whirlwind trip through town to Cary. I did pass through Downtown and it seemed very Dead to me....but Columbias Downtown seems dead alot too. Columbia seems to have made MAJOR strides in the past few years but since I havent seen too much of Raliegh I can't make any judgements on it, (other than what I saw briefly.)

Raleigh-NC

June 20th, 2005, 09:57 PM

@krazeeboy: Thanks :) I will be more than happy to show you around.

@JRQ: Hard work does not scare us :) There is no way to feel our enthusiasm without having spent some time 10 years ago and visiting again. The suburban side of Raleigh won't change, but DT Raleigh is definitely making an undisputed come-back. That is where we bet most of our money. As for the suburbs, they are slowly improving, with new projects addressing many of the issues that concern us. Far from becoming urban, but this is not what suburbs are all about, anyway. Our downtown can easily add another 10,000 people, with the nearby neighborhoods getting just as much. If we look at how much work we need to do then we'll never get started.

@scguy: DT Raleigh suffers from image :( People normally see Fayetteville Street and its two parallel streets and think that that is all there is to it. The Warehouse District can also offer you the very same image, but when you visit during most of the evenings you realize that there is a wealth of well-hidden clubs, bars and restaurants to make up for the image. To impress, both Columbia and Raleigh have to increase their populations inside their center, where most people expect to find proof of life. Looking at photos may not do justice to either place. My guess is that both cities have good nightlife options, considering their populations.

krazeeboi

June 20th, 2005, 10:20 PM

LSyd

June 20th, 2005, 10:26 PM

Yeah, Columbia has its work cut out for it with the revitalization of Main Street. But Five Points and the Vista are some hoppin' spots though.

Main Street Columbia's fine, except like most southern cities, it suffers a weekend shutdown. and the road work/streetscaping/construction's been a pain, but once it's done businesses will close or expand.

as far as night life on main goes, there's one club/restaurant on the end away from USC that i've read good things about, and the Sherlock Holmes is still there, just waiting to reopen. one of my friends has DJ'd there a few times. plus there's one or two random places in the bunch.

-

krazeeboi

June 20th, 2005, 10:34 PM

I may have seen 2 spots at the most on Main the last time I rode through on a weekend night. It doesn't come close to rivaling the Vista or Five Points, though. Main Street just doesn't give me a "Main Street" feel...although it has all the potential in the world. I think that area is key in Columbia capturing a more urban feel and developing the urban fabric of the city.

From what I hear, Greenville is an exception to the "Main Street weekend shutdown" syndrome. I'll have to check it out myself one night.

Raleigh-NC

June 20th, 2005, 11:18 PM

So, I gather that Columbia's Main Street suffers in a similar fashion with Fayetteville Street during the weekends. Also, I understand that Vista and Five Points are the primary entertainment districts. Am I correct? Anyone cares to provide an accurate map of DT Columbia, showing those districts clearly? One more question: What is the population in DT Columbia?

We talked a lot about downtowns, but how about outside the center? How is nightlife outside the latter? In Raleigh, we talk about Five Points, Hillsborough Street and Cameron Village - we can begin to talk about North Hills, but this project is far from done, plus there are no real nightlife spots yet, except for Cappers, a live Jazz music venue/restaurant and a few eateries. When we discuss North Hills and Crabtree Valley we talk about potential and progress and not about something in the traditional sense of entertainment. The most attractive is Five Points, I think, and if the NIMBYs let things happen, even at small scale, this area will provide some great options. I wonder if a roundabout could help address some traffic concerns.

Here is a map of DT Raleigh, to get an idea of what I am looking for:

Map of Downtown Raleigh (http://www.downtownraleigh.com/maps/district-guide.pdf)

Keep in mind that, for reasons unknown to me, Boylan Heights is missing. It should appear to the left of the Warehouse and Convention Center (aka South End) districts.

Tauricorn

June 21st, 2005, 12:35 AM

There is one club on Main St. in DT Columbia called Rio's Nightlife. It has a "New York/ Upscale vibe to it, only casual dress, young professional mixed crowd that plays good music. It's my favorite spot to go to when I'm back home. Those who dig that type of vibe should check it out.

Columbia's Main St. has never been the focal point of retail, or entertainment for the city, it jus hasn't. For the longest time this title was given to 5points, and now since the 90's The Vista. The city is in the process of revitalizing main st. and making it a more hospitable place but it's not there yet. There are developments going up on main st. currently First Citizens HQ, redevelopment of some of the older buildings into hotels, condos. So the city is actually in the process of converting Main into a pedestrian friendly district but of course there is still work to be done but I strongly believe that everything will pan out in the near future.

I know this development isn't DT proper but its pretty close, the state hospital grounds is being converted into an urban village/neighborhood with mixed housing, parks, and retail as well I believe. Here is a list of current developments going on in the core area of Columbia it also has a graphic of all the projects including the Research Campus, Vista, & 5points.Columbia Developments (http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/special_packages/growth/)

Map of developments (http://www.thestateonline.com/news/pdfs/connecting.pdf)

krazeeboi

June 21st, 2005, 03:49 AM

Raleigh-NC, as far as I know, there aren't any entertainment districts per se outside of downtown that I know of. There may be some isolated spots, but nothing that really attracts people like the Vista and Five Point.

scguy

June 21st, 2005, 04:27 AM

Yeah, Columbia has its work cut out for it with the revitalization of Main Street. But Five Points and the Vista are some hoppin' spots though.

I agree...Columbia has some great inner city hoods for a city of its size...especially in the South! I am not a lover of Columbia but I do expect it is one of the most up and coming citys' in the USA today.

krazeeboi

June 21st, 2005, 07:41 AM

I do agree...I believe that the research campus, along with the numerous other developments proposed/underway in the city, IF coordinated properly, will help to give the city a defining quality. Honestly, I think very few, if any, cities Columbia's size has so many things on its plate at one time. Proper implementation is very crucial at this point.

Raleigh-NC

June 21st, 2005, 04:53 PM

Those links are very informative and show the momentum in Columbia. Thanks for sharing them :okay:

Justin6882

June 21st, 2005, 05:33 PM

For all you Columbians (is that what you're called?), here is a list of stuff going on in downtown Raleigh. Its an excellent website outlining the plans for our Main Street (Fayetteville Street), the new 500,000 sq. ft. Convention Center, the cultural/entertainment district, the new mass transit, and tons of other information on all the individual projects (condos, office buildings, etc).

Raleigh: Liveable Streets (http://www.raleighnc.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_306_203_0_43/http%3B/pt03/DIG_Web_Content/project/public/livable_streets/index.htm)

James704

June 21st, 2005, 05:38 PM

Raleigh, duh.

Raleigh-NC

June 21st, 2005, 07:27 PM

We also have a thread discussing most of DT Raleigh projects. Not a complete list, but nevertheless informative.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=214624

Also, you will find projects that are not listed on the city's web page... for whatever reasons. None of them is pie in the sky, or very distant visions. You may safely assume there is more, but nothing deserving mention until there are some more solid plans brought forth.

ejohnson

June 22nd, 2005, 01:55 AM

I cant decide. does anyone have any pictures of raleigh that they can show??

If its pics you want ...its pics you will get!

The Progress Energy Tower gives off that elegant large city building look for 22 stories
http://www.whvo.com/ncphotos/images/centura_6359_550_dpwm.jpg

Hanover One……………………..
http://www.whvo.com/ncphotos/images/han1_7186_550wm.jpg

……..and Two, also the tenth tallest tower in the state
http://www.whvo.com/ncphotos/images/hanover_6433_550_dpwm.jpg

I always asked the question…why does a jailhouse need to be so tall?
http://www.whvo.com/ncphotos/images/wcps_6391_550_dpwm.jpg

The view from city market
http://www.whvo.com/ncphotos/images/1104/2/raleigh_2870.jpg

The very majestic Wachovia Capitol Center
http://www.whvo.com/ncphotos/images/1stunioncombob_550_dropwm.jpg

Nice view of buildings with Raleigh’s tallest
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/images/downtown_5326_550_dropwm.jpg

The Archdale building…………..one of the weirdest but impressive buildings that I have ever seen……….
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/raleigh_historic/raleigh_4773_550_dropwm.jpg

The Clarion Capitol Hotel
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/2/holiday_inn_757.jpg

Our newest tower…Two Progress Plaza
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/2/raleigh_1142.jpg

I think One Exchange Plaza and the old Wachovia building compliments the Wachovia capitol center well in this photo…………..
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/raleigh/raleigh_2334_550wm.jpg
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/raleigh/fay_st_mall_2405_550wm.jpg
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/char/char_view44_550_dropwm.jpg
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/char/skyline_3069_750wm.jpg
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/char/charlotte_105/2/charlotte_nc_3067.jpg
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/char/304/charlotte_8322_550wm.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/fsm.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/1progress.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/sheraton.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/333.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/hudson.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/sirwalter.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/cvs.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/wake.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/courthouse.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/exchange.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/briggs.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/2.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/fed.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/appeals.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/statue.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/capitol.jpg

Actually on Salisbury Street
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/safety.jpg[/QUOTE]

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/26857642.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/34970532.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/34970579.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/34970594.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/34970598.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/34972411.jpg

These pics were submitted by other Forumers......I did not take take none of these shots!

ejohnson

June 22nd, 2005, 01:59 AM

If its pics you want ...its pics you will get!

The Progress Energy Tower gives off that elegant large city building look for 22 stories
http://www.whvo.com/ncphotos/images/centura_6359_550_dpwm.jpg

Hanover One……………………..
http://www.whvo.com/ncphotos/images/han1_7186_550wm.jpg

……..and Two, also the tenth tallest tower in the state
http://www.whvo.com/ncphotos/images/hanover_6433_550_dpwm.jpg

I always asked the question…why does a jailhouse need to be so tall?
http://www.whvo.com/ncphotos/images/wcps_6391_550_dpwm.jpg

The view from city market
http://www.whvo.com/ncphotos/images/1104/2/raleigh_2870.jpg

The very majestic Wachovia Capitol Center
http://www.whvo.com/ncphotos/images/1stunioncombob_550_dropwm.jpg

Nice view of buildings with Raleigh’s tallest
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/images/downtown_5326_550_dropwm.jpg

The Archdale building…………..one of the weirdest but impressive buildings that I have ever seen……….
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/raleigh_historic/raleigh_4773_550_dropwm.jpg

The Clarion Capitol Hotel
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/2/holiday_inn_757.jpg

Our newest tower…Two Progress Plaza
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/2/raleigh_1142.jpg

I think One Exchange Plaza and the old Wachovia building compliments the Wachovia capitol center well in this photo…………..
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/raleigh/raleigh_2334_550wm.jpg
http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/raleigh/fay_st_mall_2405_550wm.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/fsm.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/1progress.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/sheraton.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/333.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/hudson.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/sirwalter.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/cvs.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/wake.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/courthouse.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/exchange.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/briggs.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/2.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/fed.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/appeals.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/statue.jpg
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/capitol.jpg

Actually on Salisbury Street
http://www.raleighrenaissance.com/gallery/fsm/safety.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/26857642.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/34970532.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/34970579.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/34970594.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/34970598.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/34972411.jpg

These pics were submitted by other Forumers......I did not take take none of these shots![/QUOTE]