I've read many times that Melbourne was until recently (1970's?) the largest and most important city in Australia. That it was the financial and cultural center of the country. Even today Melbourne leads Sydney in many categories, so why does Sydney have the larger population and world status, besides the weather/beaches/location. There's got to be more to it than that. I'm very curious to know if there were any econmic shifts that made this possible and how Melbourne sizes up to Sydney today.

So basically I would like some in put into when and why this shift occurred. It's been bugging me for years!

^^^
I would say that the people writting that Melboure was bigger than Sydney until the'70s didn't know what they were talking about. The Australian Bureau of Statistics puts the time at closer to 1906 (Sydney = 559,800 Melbourne = 530,660).

So this hasn't been a particularly recent thing. I'm sure other people would have a better knowledge of this than myself, so i'll leave it to them.

Yes, Orfeo is right. The population change happened at around the turn of last century.

Thats right. Melbourne was the biggest city for a short while in the 1890's because of the gold rush but Sydney has been Number 1 since then.

Why is Sydney Australia's largest and most important?

Historically one of the first cities, capital of the first state of NSW, and that is big kudos when starting a new colony ;-)

Melbourne was the financial capital for a lot longer than it was the biggest city, but it lost that title gradually over the 70's and into the 80's.

Politically there was always a tussle between the cities and Canberra was the compromise.

I personally find Sydney a real big city and will always be Australia's Number #1. It's got it all IMO, but Melbourne is really hitting it's strides.

I think you will find that Melbourne got a far bigger proportion of the post SWW migrants that came from europe during the 40s,50s and 60s but statred to lose that slight advantage when the incoming migrants were carried by Qantas to Sydney first.
Dont forget also that Melboburne is 46 years younger than Sydney and only 600,000 behind and that is far less that ANY other city in Australia.
Melbourne is also gaining considiable population now after a decade of stagnant growth form the 1980s- early 90s.

Hello, interesting topic for my first post!

Well Melbourne is the younger of the two cities as mentioned above. However Melbourne had the significant advantage of having the Gold Rush boom and the subsequent influx of people, not only from the rest of Australia but from the rest of the world also. However in the 1890's the trend from moving from Sydney to Melbourne was reversed as Melbourne fell to a huge recession/depression. The new jobs dried up and many people moved back to where they came from. However Melbourne did after a few years start attracting people back to the city, however by that time Sydney had re-taken the mantle of Australia's most populous city.

^^Yes the gold rush of the 1850's-60's was the single most important factor in the prosperity of Melbourne from dingy back water to a sophisticated city. Most of the city's grand buildings, many of which still stand today, are a direct biproduct.

During the 1880's boom period most of the countries major corporations made there HQ's in Melbourne and this is still the case today with our largest banks, Telco's and Mining Co's still based here.

During the 1970's Sydney took over as our finacial centre but it still has only about half the amount of industrial space of Melbourne.

So these days Sydney is big in Finance/commerce while Melbourne is big on manufacturing(Cars, Machinery, Transport, Chemicals etc), and biotechnology, and is stil our largest sea port with about 40% of Australia's cargo going through it.

So the current population gap of about 500,000, i think will stay fairly constant even though Melbourne has been growing at a higher rate over the last few years thanks to a masive construction/housing boom and a stable and growing state economy.

Cheers

Dean - Melbourne

I think there's been a misunderstanding - the population of Sydney has been bigger than Melb since the turn of the century (i.e. the 19th to 20th century!), but Melbourne was the more culturally, politically and (arguably) economically important city until the 1970s.

And dont forget Melbourne And Victoria, have 25% of the Australian population and manufacture close to 35% of all Australian manufacturing.

It is quite interesting to look at the population size difference between Sydney and Melbourne over the last 100 or so years. Melbourne has only gained on Sydney about 5 times (of which we're in the latest one now) over that period, lasting for maybe a 1/3 of the total time. Each seems to last for between 5 to 10 years, most closer to 5, and since Melbourne is just starting there should be a few good years to go.

I think the current 500,000-600,000 will remain though.

Currently it is about 640,000 and Sydneys growth number isn't that far behind, so I would say that it might shorten a little. It has really only been last year where Melbourne made up any ground.

Sydney having the only "real" international airport/gateway up until the early
1970's gave it a real boost in the "prominence" stakes i.m.o.

I think there will be a lot of potential growth in greater metro Sydney (Central Coast, Southern Highlands, etc) but not significant growth in Sydney proper.

I think Melbourne shot itself in the foot by not having an internationally capable airport for a while until the late 70's. Also apart from the Tasman, we don't get a lot of international ocean liners docking at Port Melbourne.

So really a lot of international traffic stops at Sydney and it is an extra step to get to Melbourne if they really want to. And if Sydney offers what they want, what real difference would Melbourne make?

Sydney has been taken for granted by many overseas companies as the place to do business. I know a couple that has set up offices in Sydney only to find later that they are getting more business out of Melbourne. Let's admit Sydney has been getting the attention as the city of Australia. How many movies mention Sydney as opposed to Melbourne?

The two cities are so different in many ways and I think in the end it comes down to what people's preferences are and where their jobs take them. Extroverted Sydney for sunshine, beautiful bodies and making money. Introverted Melbourne for art, dining and fashion culture, sports and its weather (you'll be surprised how many people like this sort of weather).

Heh good question Melbourne needs to raise it's international profile. The commonwealth games will help but it really needs another olympics

Nice speech Tays.
But yes, as other have said Steak 'n' Kidney has had the larger international airport.
Melbourne is known to shipping places around the world (i think) seeming that we have the most sea cargo.
Also sydney has the harbour, and the city is kind of built around it, Melbourne has the bay, and the city is built around the top of it, and the houses around it and the yarra, and the hills. Melbourne is more centred with the yarra river, its the activity center, same with sydny and the harbour.

EDIT: link to tays speech, well he just copied it from a book, but hey its good.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=2360172#post2360172

And dont forget Melbourne And Victoria, have 25% of the Australian population and manufacture close to 35% of all Australian manufacturing.
And only 3% of the land mass so Melbourne and Victoria are much easier to manage with much lower infrastructure costs.
IMO I dont care if Melbourne ever gets bigger than Sydney as it will always be a better and more comfortable society to live in.

I think Melbourne shot itself in the foot by not having an internationally capable airport for a while until the late 70's. Also apart from the Tasman, we don't get a lot of international ocean liners docking at Port Melbourne.

So really a lot of international traffic stops at Sydney and it is an extra step to get to Melbourne if they really want to. And if Sydney offers what they want, what real difference would Melbourne make?

Sydney has been taken for granted by many overseas companies as the place to do business. I know a couple that has set up offices in Sydney only to find later that they are getting more business out of Melbourne. Let's admit Sydney has been getting the attention as the city of Australia. How many movies mention Sydney as opposed to Melbourne?

The two cities are so different in many ways and I think in the end it comes down to what people's preferences are and where their jobs take them. Extroverted Sydney for sunshine, beautiful bodies and making money. Introverted Melbourne for art, dining and fashion culture, sports and its weather (you'll be surprised how many people like this sort of weather).

You can blame the Liberal Govt of the time for the Airport not being built sooner and when it was built it was only allowed to be 4/5ths the size of Sydney airport.

And another thing I dont want millions of grubby tourists crawling all over the city Sydney can keep them. And if Melbourne is such a bastard of a place why didnt all the people leave when the gold ran out in the late 19th century?

they did leave

all thats left are extras from a thins add

:)

Why? Because Melbourne's shit. So is the whole of Victoria :D

(Don't mind me, I'm just bitter because I have to live here. Take me back to Sunny Brisbane).

No, sale is shit. Vic rules but i've been to sale before lol, poor you.

Well I'm out of here at the end of the year... don't know where to, but I figure wherever I go it's going to be north of here.

lol comparing brisbane to sale.

lol comparing brisbane to sale.

Well obviously there is no contest.

But I'm not too keen on Melbourne either - although Sale makes it look good (and I like Crown - only reason I go to Melbourne nowadays).

But I don't know why you people insist on living in a place where it's cold and miserable for half the year - and if you go to Queensland for 3 weeks you can miss the entire summer (true story - last year). Sale's even worse cause it's foggy most mornings and 40kt winds.

Why there are 5 million people crammed into this tiny state when there is so much room up north, I'll never know.

The intelligence displayed in this thread has dropped low enough for closing it methinks.

clang.