Los Angeles scores as best place for sports teams (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6143100/)


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Los Angeles scores asbest place for sports teams
Phoenix as most overextended market, American City Business Journals study finds

By G. Scott Thomas
American City Business Journals
Updated: 7:13 a.m. ET Oct. 4, 2004


Los Angeles and Phoenix may be separated by just 375 miles, but they are light-years apart in terms of sports economics.

Los Angeles is the nation’s most appealing site for an expansion or relocated team, says a new study by American City Business Journals. The No. 1 ranking is based specifically on Los Angeles’ ability to support a new franchise in the National Football League.

Phoenix, on the other hand, is the most overextended market in the nation, according to the study. That means its income base is insufficient for its current teams, let alone new ones.

American City Business Journals analyzed 172 markets across America to determine their economic ability to support additional professional teams in baseball, football, basketball, hockey and soccer. The study focused on markets without a team in at least one of the five major sports.

Los Angeles ranks first because of its economic power. Its income base is eight times larger than necessary to adequately support a franchise in the NFL, the only league in which L.A. is not represented.

Right behind Los Angeles on the list of best sites for new teams are Philadelphia, Orlando, Houston, Portland, Ore., and Las Vegas:


Philadelphia, the nation’s sixth-largest metropolitan area, is the biggest market not in Major League Soccer.
Orlando has twice the economic capacity needed for an NFL franchise or a National Hockey League team. It also has the highest rating of any market not in Major League Baseball, though its income base falls 7 percent short of the sport's requirements.
Houston, with a population above 5 million, has more than enough room to add either a hockey or soccer team.
Portland could back a pro team in any of three leagues, including the NFL, MLS and the NHL.
Las Vegas has the strongest income base of any area without a franchise in any of the five major sports. It ranks No. 1 among all potential markets for the National Basketball Association.



At the opposite end of the spectrum is Phoenix, which already has baseball, football, basketball and hockey franchises.

The study estimated that Phoenix would need another $68 billion in total personal income (TPI) to comfortably support all four teams. TPI is the sum of all money earned by all residents of an area in a given year.

The shortfall does not necessarily mean that any of Phoenix's teams will move or fold. But it is a fairly reliable sign that they can expect continued volatility in attendance and revenues.

Some of Phoenix’s franchises, in fact, are finding it difficult to prosper in their overextended market:

The Arizona Cardinals ranked dead last in the NFL in attendance last season. The Cardinals averaged 36,000 fans per game. Every other team in the league was above 53,000.
The Phoenix Suns fell 4 percent short of last year's average crowd size in the NBA.
The Phoenix Coyotes finished 19th in the 30-team NHL in attendance in 2003-2004.

Following Phoenix on the list of overextended sports markets are Tampa-St. Petersburg, Pittsburgh, Denver, Kansas City, Cincinnati and Milwaukee. Each would need at least another $30 billion in TPI to provide a comfortable base for its existing franchises.

American City Business Journals based its rankings of appealing and overextended sites on income data produced by the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis.

The study also generated a precise score, called a market capacity rating, for each area without a pro team in a specific sport. All ratings were done on a 100-point scale. (Scores for all 172 markets can be found on the accompanying spreadsheet.)


ACBJ used data on team revenues and ticket prices to estimate that a market needs an income base of at least $70.4 billion to support a franchise in Major League Baseball, the highest figure for any of the major sports. The least expensive is Major League Soccer, requiring a minimum base of $14.1 billion.

The study calculated each market’s remaining capacity for pro sports by taking the area’s TPI and subtracting the amounts needed to support its existing teams. Further details are available in the accompanying methodology box.


Major League Soccer has the widest range of expansion or relocation options among the five big leagues, according to the resulting market capacity ratings.

Eighty-two areas have scores of 100 for MLS, placing them above the league’s minimum income threshold. The list of qualified sites for soccer ranges from Philadelphia to such unlikely choices as Shreveport, La., and Johnson City, Tenn.

Twenty-nine markets have the economic capacity to support a new National Football League franchise, as do 23 areas for the National Hockey League and 18 for the National Basketball Association.

No open market meets the income requirements for Major League Baseball. Orlando comes closest with a capacity score of 93, followed by Portland at 78 and Las Vegas at 74.

The Washington part of the Washington-Baltimore economic area has a sufficient base when separated from Baltimore, which already has a baseball team. Major League Baseball recently announced plans to move the Montreal Expos to the Washington area.

The ACBJ study was designed solely to measure each market's economic ability to support teams in the five major sports. Other considerations also would be important in any decision to expand, including proximity to existing teams (a possible problem for Orlando), unique local factors (such as the prominence of gambling in Las Vegas) and the availability of stadiums or arenas.

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The West Coast needs another AL baseball team (or two) & is underserved by the NFL & the NHL...I could see Portland, Sacramento, & Las Vegas battling for the A's (if nothing happens in Oakland or the South Bay) or a future expansion franchise...LA will get the NFL inevitably...The NBA would be a perfect fit in Vegas...Seattle or Portland are bound to land an NHL franchise one of these days...If current growth trends continue, Sacramento & Salt Lake City will probably become (or already are) underserved markets.

portland didnt get the expos =(, but now that DC's got their team, portland is technically the next largest market available for baseball... altho i personally dont think the A's will leave the Bay Area, and would rather see them in San Jose... perhaps the Twins and Marlins? There are several teams in MLB that are supposedly in "trouble"...Portland does have a complete stadium finance package ready to go, tho, i dont know with a new mayor coming in this year if the political will is going to still be here after novemeber. i guess we'll see...

NHL needs to clean up its act before it expands into either Seattle or Portland (if Portland lands MLB, this is a lock for Seattle once NHL is ready).

Interesting article. So what's taking LA so long to get an NFL team then? Orlando already has a NHL and NFL team next door in Tampa, it should be considered to have one. It's unbelieveable that Vegas still has no teams, I had hoped the Expos would go there. I don't think NHL would work well in Houston, but Seattle seems a natural, especially in creating a rivalry with Vancouver. The only rivalry they've had is the short-lived Sonics-Grizzlies in NBA. I wonder if Toronto were in the US, if they'd be due for a team. Maybe soccer or NFL.

The West Coast needs another AL baseball team (or two) & is underserved by the NFL & the NHL...I could see Portland, Sacramento, & Las Vegas battling for the A's (if nothing happens in Oakland or the South Bay) or a future expansion franchise...LA will get the NFL inevitably...The NBA would be a perfect fit in Vegas...Seattle or Portland are bound to land an NHL franchise one of these days...If current growth trends continue, Sacramento & Salt Lake City will probably become (or already are) underserved markets.

If LA is a possible candidate for the NFL, they need to know how to keep football in their town. They lost the Rams and the Raiders. But the problem is LA folks don't even care for football at all. UCLA Bruins and USC get all the glory. About the NBA, the Lakers don't even have any local fans at Staples Center because the seats are expense. It always has to be the celebrities who get to be there all the damn time; typically the only sports team to have full-blown celebrity fans, from movie stars to TV starts to pretty women who are skinny, full of anorexia illnesses and slutty.
It would be nice for Vegas to have some basketball in their city. If I had my way, I'd name the team "The Las Vegas Gamblers", or "The Las Vegas Blackjackers!"

If LA is a possible candidate for the NFL, they need to know how to keep football in their town. They lost the Rams and the Raiders. But the problem is LA folks don't even care for football at all.

When LA had the Rams & Raiders, they had more fans go to NFL games than any other city in the country other than E. Rutherford, NJ. They supported & cared for football.

When the Rams and Raiders were huffing and puffing and threatening to leave, it was "see ya!" Everyone keeps telling LA that they need a team, but they've been fine without one. The problem isn't trying to keep a team in their town. Most couldn't care less. The problem is that the NFL needs to make LA want the team. The burden is on the NFL, not LA.

There are plenty of people in LA who want a team. Put a team in LA and you instantly get a fan base larger than half of the teams in the NFL before even playing a game.

I guess the question to ask is What happened to the NFL in LA?

NHL needs to clean up its act before it expands into either Seattle or Portland (if Portland lands MLB, this is a lock for Seattle once NHL is ready).

Well where do you suggest the Seattle NHL team play because I know we aren't buliding any new arenas soon. :dunno:

Interesting article. So what's taking LA so long to get an NFL team then? Orlando already has a NHL and NFL team next door in Tampa, it should be considered to have one. It's unbelieveable that Vegas still has no teams, I had hoped the Expos would go there. I don't think NHL would work well in Houston, but Seattle seems a natural, especially in creating a rivalry with Vancouver. The only rivalry they've had is the short-lived Sonics-Grizzlies in NBA. I wonder if Toronto were in the US, if they'd be due for a team. Maybe soccer or NFL.


if toronto, Vancouver, Montreal were american cities there would be no problem with anything i think. its just a disadvantage competing with american cities, when your a canadian city, so its not a lock that the raptors, or even blue jays are staying in toronto forever.

that's a really cool picture of downtown and staples center. i like it.

Argos' new stadium to be built at York


Canadian Press


10/18/2004

TORONTO (CP) - Less than three weeks after the University of Toronto backed out of a proposed downtown stadium plan, the CFL's Toronto Argonauts and the Canadian Soccer Association have found a new home.


York University, in north Toronto, will be the site for the proposed $70-million, 25,000-seat facility.


The new site has two clear advantages over Varsity: much more land to work with and lots of parking.


On the minus side, the new location is a 45-minute drive from downtown - longer during rush hour - and is not directly on the subway line.






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Related Info

*Argos' new stadium

``Our feeling is very strong that this is the best place to have a football stadium,'' Argos co-owner Howard Sokolowski said Monday, standing on the new site.


The CFL evidently agrees.


``The Grey Cup game will come back to Toronto before the end of the decade for sure,'' said commissioner Tom Wright, noting temporary seating could increase capacity to more than 40,000 for the CFL championship game.


The hope is to have the stadium completed in time for the 2006 CFL season - so the Argos can leave SkyDome and the CSA can use it as the centrepiece of the 2007 world under-20 soccer championship.


It appears the Argos will have to dig deeper into their pockets for the new plan.


The federal government will contribute $27 million and the provincial government $8 million. York is contributing the land and $15 million with the Argos responsible for the final $20 million and any cost overruns.


The Varsity Stadium plan called for the same $35 million in government funding, with the University of Toronto securing $30 million in credit with the Argos paying the financing charges. The final $15 million was to come from private donations, with the Argos owners in for a piece.


Both the Argos and CSA said the York University site had been checked out earlier and was seen as being desirable.


``This was very much neck and neck with Varsity to begin with,'' said Argos co-owner David Cynamon.


Kevan Pipe, chief operating officer of the Canadian Soccer Association, said the York plan was ``incredibly better.''


``We do not have a running track around the stadium, so the first row of seats will be six yards from the sidelines.


``The Varsity stadium model had a lot of unique design features because of the (space) limitations of the site. Here we have no limitations. We'll be able to build a stadium-bowl atmosphere that is truly like what you would see in the new stadiums in Europe.''


Time was especially of the essence for the CSA, whose right to host the world under-20 championships in 2007 was hanging in the balance if a new stadium could not be found in a hurry.


FIFA, the world's soccer governing body, was putting on the heat.


``It's fair to say that they expressed a lot of concern,'' said Pipe. ``When the project was cancelled by U of T for whatever reasons they claimed, it certainly caused some interesting discussions with our friends in Europe (FIFA).


``They're ecstatic now.''


Pipe says the CSA can use the new Toronto stadium to bid for the Women's World Cup, the CONCACAF men's Gold Cup and the CONCACAF men's Olympic qualifying tournament.


And Pipe says a Major League Soccer franchise could be a target with Sokolowski and Cynamon interested in being part of a possible ownership group.


Said Sokolowski: ``I know MLS is interested in coming here but let's find out how interested.''


That will add to the Argos' price tag. The new MLS team in Salt Lake City, set to begin play next season, paid $10 million US to secure a franchise.***


The stadium location will generate debate.


Paul de Zara, who lives downtown, said he bought season tickets this year because of the proposed downtown location.


``Now with the move to York not only will I not be renewing my tickets but I doubt given the inconvenience of getting to the new facility I'll even go to a game as a walk-up ticket,'' he said.


The Argos see the glass as half-full.


``There are people who told me they're now going to get season tickets because it will be at York University,'' Sokolowski said. ``I guess if you live down on Bloor St. (downtown), you would prefer Varsity but it all comes down to perspective.


Said Cynamon: ``One thing is certain: the venue here will be much greater, a much better fan experience than it would have ever been downtown because as you can see here we have a much better footprint to work with.''


For the Argos, the move to the outdoor stadium will be a welcome change after playing in the cavernous SkyDome since 1989, where even a respectable crowd of 25,000 leaves the place half-empty and without atmosphere.


The Argos will now operate their own stadium and schedule their own games, as opposed to waiting to hear from SkyDome on what dates are available. That means more weekend games during the summer.

LA will not support a losing team. When the Rams and Raiders stopped winning, attendance at their games went way down, and fans in So Cal were punished by not having any game on TV while the local teams played before less than sell out crowds.
When the Raiders left, there were (according to the LA Times ) fewer than a handful of fans protesting at their departure. LA now gets the best TV games because they are not blacked out. I don't think LA cares that much for a local team.

Pasedena opposed the NFL coming to town. Interesting.
http://www.nbc4.tv/sports/3914204/detail.html

LA simply doesn't care about their teams. They don't support them at all. People leave in the 7th inning of Dodgers games to avoid too much traffic which is reasonable I guess, but is that supporting your team though?

Yeah, L.A. has never supported the Clippers. Granted, they are never good, but it just goes to show that L.A. doesn't care about teams when they suck. Same goes for the Angels. They would draw about 13,000 a game until one day they made the playoffs. Suddenly, every game was sold out! Everybody in the L.A. area was magically an Angels fan!

the Clippers have averaged more than 16,000 the last 5 years and the Angels have passed the 3 million mark the last 2 out of 3. The dodgers have more than 3 million every year and the lakers sell out every game. The Dodgers and Angels combined for almost 7 million fans last year, and guess what LA is the only metro that has drawn over 6 million combined for its two teams. not SF, not NY and Certainly not Chicago. The Kings had 30 sell outs last year, and had 97% capacity last year as well as over 95% the last 5 years. the Trojans averaged over 88,000 last year, UCLA at 60,000 a game, the galaxy led the MLS in Attenedance for the year once again, i believe every year since the beginning of the MLS. The LA Marathon had over 1,000,000 people lining the streets as well as the Fontana speedway drawing 100,000 for major events. The tennis tournaments all did very very well, with the mercedes cup at UCLA selling out once again and the Womens tournamnet in Staples averaging 10,000. The track events at the Home depot center all sold out as well. Tell me what major city does support losers?? the Mets couldnt draw flies, the Islanders play in front of 10 people a game, the Devils cant sell out finals games if their franchise depended on it, the White sox cant draw more than 15000 unless they are playing the cubs, etc etc. Please dont come here and pretend you know anything about LA sports. im sick of you east coasters thinking you have some kind of superiority.

Why are people so shocked that more people attended Angels games when they made play-offs? I don't remember LA fans there, but I remember A LOT of Anaheim people went to that game.

Ever thought that maybe the people in those stands are actually Angels fans? What a concept.

If they were Angels fans, why weren't they at the games the rest of the season? L.A. fans are fairweather. They go to the games when the teams are doing well, but otherwise, they neglect them. I knew plenty of people who started wearing Angels' apparel after they made the playoffs, and they couldn't even name one player on the team. It's called jumping on the bandwagon. I'm not saying everybody does it, but plenty of people in L.A. do.

^ please name me one major city that is not like that.

Ever heard of a place called Boston, the best sports city in the world?

86 years, no championships, constant love for their team

thats true with the red sox, but the celtics are drawing flies right now, not to mention the dodgers not having won anything the last 17 years, yet drawing over 3 million every year since the strike as well as most of those 17 years. so if the celtics start winning anytime soon and all of a sudden they start selling out games, the fans are bandwagoning?

If they were Angels fans, why weren't they at the games the rest of the season? L.A. fans are fairweather. They go to the games when the teams are doing well, but otherwise, they neglect them. I knew plenty of people who started wearing Angels' apparel after they made the playoffs, and they couldn't even name one player on the team. It's called jumping on the bandwagon. I'm not saying everybody does it, but plenty of people in L.A. do.

not necessarily a case of jumping the bandwagon...but i hate when the "ill thug gangsters" wear LA hats in SD just because they think they are cool...it pisses me off...

OMG January 11, 2005 was the last post on this thread. Until someone decides to open it.....:lock:

Just for the record there's already an active sports thread....