Miami and any larger cities in Florida was cheaper to live there than CA, Northeast and West standard.

I lived in Los Angeles for almost in my life. Los Angeles is pretty old, dirty, very expensive as hell (mostly on housing price but rent is pretty good) and ecomany have been worse in early 1990s but not now. Traffic is very nightmare!!! Los Angeles have very good crime/law breaking prgram with LAPD but maybe same as like Miami PD. Miami is seem very nice and modern city ever. Maybe better living than L.A.

Does Florida laws let people can using neon light on under car for driving on road and freeway?

I never went to Miami before though. Which is better living? L.A. or Miami

Does have any problem in Miami?

no problems in miami,

its the best here, skyscraper future wise were the best in the country in terms of future boom.

neon lights under cars, theres nothing wrong with that,
unless theres some wacky law

welcome

no problems in miami,

its the best here, skyscraper future wise were the best in the country in terms of future boom.

neon lights under cars, theres nothing wrong with that,
unless theres some wacky law

welcome

Thank you so much.

I think we need to differentiate between the areas around Miami.

Miami Beach, Coral Gables, Brickell, Aventura, Sunny Isles Beach, Key Biscayne, Fisher Island are stunning. They can rival some of the best places to live in the world.

The rest of Miami-Dade County is a either a ghetto or cookie-cutter suburbia, for the most part. I try to avoid it at all costs.

I think we need to differentiate between the areas around Miami.

Miami Beach, Coral Gables, Brickell, Aventura, Sunny Isles Beach, Key Biscayne, Fisher Island are stunning. They can rival some of the best places to live in the world.

The rest of Miami-Dade County is a either a ghetto or cookie-cutter suburbia, for the most part. I try to avoid it at all costs.

Does all of Miami-Dade County covered with ghetto and cookie-cutter suburbia? Does Miami-Dade County got alot diverse changed in 1980? (Like it changed into more Cuban than white people or European).

miami is now 60 percent hispanic/latin

miami is now 60 percent hispanic/latin
RX, I say thats GOOD :) , and Thanks to 30 % of them For Making MIAMI , WHAT IT IS TODAY, I'm A American White Native Born in Baltimore , Maryland, and to tell you at my upper 40's age, I went back to Baltimore for a Visit 2 years ago, AND I got sick of looking at the City I was raised in, and seeing a City that went down and very sick looking , The Latins I live with and Work with here in MIAMI , ARE HARD Working People and To Tell you the TRUTH, I'm Lazy when it comes to them being Hard Working, The Latins will work all the way into their 70's and beyond, They never QUIT. I have to hand it to them, THEY BUILT MIAMI, More than Half of the Devolpers ARE LATIN, and GOD Bless them, Thats my opinion, and if you don't Live with them and work with them like I do with Miami-Dade County, well you don't KNOW them like I do. :cheers:

Thanks Chuck, from a Cuban-American. I tell you, Miami is becoming a more cosmopolitan city everyday. I think everyone has contributed to this magical city, white and black folks early on, then we cubans came into the picture, and now people from all over latin america and europe are helping Miami continue its amazing growth. I notice that we are maturing more as a community and in my opinion everyone is getting along better. Hope to see those 50 cranes in '05. Boomtown!!!! :cheers:

One thing that I do have to ask (and I'm a big fan of Miami), over the years Miami has acquired a reputation for rudeness. Indeed, one particular travel magazine used to run a survey in which they declared Miami "America's Rudest City" year after year.

But this was some years back. Does the reputation still persist ?

One thing that I do have to ask (and I'm a big fan of Miami), over the years Miami has acquired a reputation for rudeness. Indeed, one particular travel magazine used to run a survey in which they declared Miami "America's Rudest City" year after year.

But this was some years back. Does the reputation still persist ?
DALE, :) NO WAY Now !, We , the People, and Residents of MIAMI-DADE County Have changed since then, We pulled through 4 Hurricanes and Binded together as ONE Community to WELCOME Back :) THE TOURISTS From ANY COUNTRY, STATE or CITY. We are not RUDE and We behave like Normal Country folks, YA All Come NOW and VISIT the MAGIC City of MIAMI !!! :cheers:

IMO the rudeness depends on the ethnic group. I was dissapointed by the quality of service when I went down there with my wife, who was born and raised in Miami. She said she is used to rude ass people in Miami... the thing is, it's mainly the Cubans. Cubans think they run Miami, it's pretty sad. Other than that, most fast-paced cities generally have a ruder people, since you're dealing with so many people every day, your bound to become a little less patient. Btw, my wife is peruvian.

I Think Your Probably Generalizing
Youll Encounter Rudeness Anywhere You Go

As The Saying Goes You Get What You Pay For...
So Overall If You Want A Better Quality Of Service Pay The Extra Buck But Dont Expect Etiquette And Streamlined Manners To Come Out Of Dinning At Little Havanna

I Think The Statement Is Unfounded And Bias And A Bit Harsh
And Most Would Find Offense To It.

Im Sure If I Said Peruvians Are Nothing But Indians And There Idea Of Hospitality Is Chewing Corn And Spitting It In A Glass And Offering It To There Guest.

You would Find That Offensive But Its True... So Reserve Some Of Your Comments or opinions To Yourself.

lol
I don't take offense to stereotypes. Most of the times stereotypes exsist because there is some truth to them. I base my bias off of personal experience. Of course it doesn't apply to all of them, but I experienced the rudeness & lack of class first-hand. Like it or hate it my opinion still stands

well to make such an unruley remark or statement would clasify you right up there with those you so call mention as being rude.

its brilliantly one of those things in the world where it takes one to know one... either that or your just extremely picky in service or have a hard time understanding the culture.

either way im so sorry you had a hard time in miami luckily you wont be visiting any time soon.

as a miamian, the rudeness here is unbelievable. it's the one thing that might cause me to leave the area eventually. i've tried to figure where it comes from, but from my experience it spans all ethnic, racial, class groups. For a service oriented city, you'd think we'd have a handle on it, but that never seems to be the case.

That's not to say there aren't nice people here too. There's plenty. I go out of my way to be nice to people, especially in traffic and such in the hopes it might rub off.

I should also add that I see this as a trend in most of America. Maybe Miami is just ahead of the game.

Wow, Does Miami have alot of rudest people?

well, its wrong to judge, like i did (sorry)
something like that you'd have to find out for yourself. Visit the city & draw your own conclusions... because one person might have a good experience while someone else might have a bad one.

well, its wrong to judge, like i did (sorry)
something like that you'd have to find out for yourself. Visit the city & draw your own conclusions... because one person might have a good experience while someone else might have a bad one.

Are all of Miami-Dade County was ghetto? (Like ugly community and neighborhood)

I'm little nervous now.

not at all
aventura, miami beach, brickell, pembroke pines (i think that's miami-dade), coconut grove, coral gables... all very nice & upscale areas. But seriously, visit the city for yourself! Miami is a large city so there's much contrast and diversity. Obviously the city has something to offer, seeing the kind of boom that it's currently experiencing.

Are all of Miami-Dade County was ghetto? (Like ugly community and neighborhood)

I'm little nervous now.

That is why I left MIami forever. I will never go back there.
Lack of good jobs, rude people, not a good freeway system.
Only one freeway has carpool lanes, and they are just starting to have meter lights on freeways.
California, Houston, Minneapolis are way ahead. when it comes to freeways.
This weeks people from Seattle , and Houston will be training people in Florida on how to use the meter light on freeways.

Miami might be a nice city one day. Maybe 50 years from now.
I heard it is growing, but I hope they clean the city, and try to lure high tech companies to the area.
Hotels and restaurants jobs does not help much the economy.
They have to diversified the local economy as San Diego and Chicago does

not at all
aventura, miami beach, brickell, pembroke pines (i think that's miami-dade), coconut grove, coral gables... all very nice & upscale areas. But seriously, visit the city for yourself! Miami is a large city so there's much contrast and diversity. Obviously the city has something to offer, seeing the kind of boom that it's currently experiencing.

How about Hialeah, Kendrall, North Miami and North Miami Beach?

That is why I left MIami forever. I will never go back there.
Lack of good jobs, rude people, not a good freeway system.
Only one freeway has carpool lanes, and they are just starting to have meter lights on freeways.
California, Houston, Minneapolis are way ahead. when it comes to freeways.
This weeks people from Seattle , and Houston will be training people in Florida on how to use the meter light on freeways.

Miami might be a nice city one day. Maybe 50 years from now.
I heard it is growing, but I hope they clean the city, and try to lure high tech companies to the area.
Hotels and restaurants jobs does not help much the economy.
They have to diversified the local economy as San Diego and Chicago does

lol. I loves California alot because nice state ever. Los Angeles County only have few ghetto area like South Los Angeles (expect Baldwin Hill, View Park, USC, Crenshaw and West Adams), Compton, some part of Inglewood, some part of Lynwood and North Long Beach but not all. Crime rate was lowest than Miami. It have more carpool, good job, bigger public transportation and nice community in almost most area.

Hialeah is ghetto. Kendall is middle class suburbia (tho it has somewhat of a downtown forming), North Miami I'm not too sure, but I know it's not high-class, and I'm not too sure about North Miami Beach either. I'm sure a local Miamian can chime in on those areas.

Hialeah is ghetto. Kendall is middle class suburbia (tho it has somewhat of a downtown forming), North Miami I'm not too sure, but I know it's not high-class, and I'm not too sure about North Miami Beach either. I'm sure a local Miamian can chime in on those areas.

lol. Does Hialeah have high crime rate or just high poverty rate?

Please show me a picture of ghetto in Hialeah.

Hisma, Hialeah is not "ghetto". Obviously by you choice of words, you must be a very biased person. Hialeah is blue collar, with industrial parks and factories. There is a high number of new arrivals from Latin America, so obviously they have to start from scratch. For there to be rich, "high class" folks in Brickell and Coral Gables, there has to be blue collar people in Hialeah. P.S. Pembroke Pines is in Broward not Miami-Dade :)

That is why I left MIami forever. I will never go back there.
Lack of good jobs, rude people, not a good freeway system.
Only one freeway has carpool lanes, and they are just starting to have meter lights on freeways.
California, Houston, Minneapolis are way ahead. when it comes to freeways.
This weeks people from Seattle , and Houston will be training people in Florida on how to use the meter light on freeways.

Miami might be a nice city one day. Maybe 50 years from now.
I heard it is growing, but I hope they clean the city, and try to lure high tech companies to the area.
Hotels and restaurants jobs does not help much the economy.
They have to diversified the local economy as San Diego and Chicago does
Sorry to hear that you left and will never come back. Like many people, I have great job (how many good jobs did you need?). Sure there are rude people, there are also people from other cultures that haven't fully integrated their experiences/education to the subtilties of what we may consider polite culture, they may even be holding on to their former country's proper protocols. I'll deal with a few people walking through the door and letting it close for the opportunities to learn about other cultures. They will come around! As for the freeway complaint. Okay. Hopefully these lights you mention will make commuting from suburbs so appealing that I'll move away from the water, stop taking the MetroMover to work, and start singing the praises of freeway life.
The city that I live in today is very nice. 50 years from now, it will likely be even better. Not a chance that a Floridian will trade their tax bill with a Californian.
The balanced and diverse economy has served us quite well during the 2000 recessioin when the rest of the country was reeling and downsizing, Miami was still booming, and continues to boom. Not too many Fortune 500 companies here. Lot's of medical services, import/export, banking, and of course, tourism.
Immigration is the highest form of flattery!
For every Fredcali we loose, we gain a Federico, Francoise, Fredrick, and some very nice Fernandas.

^^WOW...that was awesome Roark!! concise and to the point!

Roark, spoken well. I would, however, like to follow up on what you said. With respect to Hisma's many inaccurate comments, i'm not sure what makes you think you know so much about Miami. You clearly do not. Hialeah is small and over crowded and blue collar, but not ghetto--except maybe for Seminola. Pembroke Pines is not in Miami-Dade county by the way, and the Cuban-American community that you have so unjustly slandered, within the past 30 years has worked cohesively with one of the most diverse mix of ethnic groups in the country to create a genuinely international economic vitality that was never before present--and is now likely to bring to Miami the headquarters of Free Trade Area of the Americas, which will make Miami the de facto diplomatic and economic capital of the entire hemisphere. The Cuban-American community does not assert that they run the city. Rather, they have, for over 3 decades, helped operate Miami more effectively than ever before, and have in fact succeeded, through careful collaberation with other Miami social, political, and ethinc factions, in bringing Miami to the international limelight, where it is destined to remain.

FredCalif, sorry to hear that you are so disgruntled with Miami, and you're right about our transportation system being inadequate, however, Miami is a young city and transportation improvements are being ambitiously worked on in order to accomodate our substantial population growth. Also, the statement that "Miami might be a nice city one day" indicates that you have not visited the city in quite some time and are unaware of the phenomenal growth in terms of developmental activity throughout the county. Miami will be a world class city to be reckoned with in 10 years or less! Whether you like it or not, the entire country will be proud of what Miami will become.

Hisma, Hialeah is not "ghetto". Obviously by you choice of words, you must be a very biased person. Hialeah is blue collar, with industrial parks and factories. There is a high number of new arrivals from Latin America, so obviously they have to start from scratch. For there to be rich, "high class" folks in Brickell and Coral Gables, there has to be blue collar, "ghetto" people in Hialeah. P.S. Pembroke Pines is in Broward not Miami-Dade :)

o my gawd, u people are so PC. Hialeah is dominated by poor immigrants, what other way would u describe it other than ghetto? Every city has it's poor areas. I guess that just hurts too many peoples feelings... gimme a break.

Here are a few random pics from downtown South Miami, by Sunset Dr. (sw 72nd st) and US-1...A full photothread will be made in the next few months... unless someone beats me to it!


http://img89.exs.cx/img89/7475/IMG_812.jpg


http://img89.exs.cx/img89/5505/IMG_0812.jpg


http://img89.exs.cx/img89/9611/IMG_811.jpg

that's sunset place, near UM. Very nice, caught a movie there and it's very clean & upscale.

What happen to Miami for next 20-50 years later? Make your opnion or can be fact?

I Think Hisma Has a Problem with definitions and proper word usage
hialeah isnt one of the greatest in miami but overall its above average and has about 75 percent of small business in dade county in those little run down warehouses. it could be a much better place to live but atleast its not a ghetto and nowhere near to it. the streets are maintained and alot of improvement has been made on water drainage where in other parts of miami there still arent any wells installed. so overall i think hisma's post is definetly biased and unfounded...

To sit here and think of what will happen in Miami in 50 years is outright preposterous. It simply cannot be done with any accuracy. 20 years of growth and development can be forecasted more accurately, but it is easier to stick analyzing the next 5 to 10 years of development in Miami in order to fully gauge what Miami is evolving into. The various threads in the Forida forum give much insight into the next 5 to 10 years of development.

Roark, spoken well. I would, however, like to follow up on what you said. With respect to Hisma's many inaccurate comments, i'm not sure what makes you think you know so much about Miami. You clearly do not. Hialeah is small and over crowded and blue collar, but not ghetto--except maybe for Seminola. Pembroke Pines is not in Miami-Dade county by the way, and the Cuban-American community that you have so unjustly slandered, within the past 30 years has worked cohesively with one of the most diverse mix of ethnic groups in the country to create a genuinely international economic vitality that was never before present--and is now likely to bring to Miami the headquarters of Free Trade Area of the Americas, which will make Miami the de facto diplomatic and economic capital of the entire hemisphere. The Cuban-American community does not assert that they run the city. Rather, they have, for over 3 decades, helped operate Miami more effectively than ever before, and have in fact succeeded, through careful collaberation with other Miami social, political, and ethinc factions, in bringing Miami to the international limelight, where it is destined to remain.



I didn't claim to know everything about the city, I don't even live there. I have however been there many times, & spent a number of weeks in the city to have an opinion on it. My opinions are just that, and while you may not like the way I speak, my opinions are at least informed and I am not making things up. I was already corrected on the Pembroke Pines comment, & i wasn't even sure it was in Miami-Dade anyway. I drove through Hialeah, and it wasn't "Bronx" ghetto but it was certainly less than desirable. I was trying to look up the demographics on the city, but last I checked it was almost 80% foreign, most of them poor. Don't know what you would classify as ghetto but that more than does it for me. Again, you guys are a little too sensitive to criticism. I have plenty of nice things to say about Miami, but one negative comment seems to set off all these alarms. Learn how to take the good with the bad, Miami has alot going for it but it still has it's share of problems.

o my gawd, u people are so PC. Hialeah is dominated by poor immigrants, what other way would u describe it other than ghetto? Every city has it's poor areas. I guess that just hurts too many peoples feelings... gimme a break.


::I'm not trying to be an aggressor::
The thing is Hisma, we're trying to tell you that Hialeah is not as Poor as you're describing, I consider Hialeah lower-middle to middle-middle class, and places like Kendall middle-middle to upper-middle class! Hialeah is far off from being a Ghetto. A ghetto is a place where people are afraid to start businesses and where you are apprehensive about unlocking your car door! That is very far from where Hialeah is...relatively speaking, it's a thriving city (i.e., nw 103rd ave, 49th st)

very stong point RX.

Now, I understand about ghetto. Ghetto means like poor neighborhood, ugly community and alot of rundown house. It can be considered into high crime rate. Ghetto is not including for Hispanic, Asian and White. Most considred for poor African American in biggest American cities like New Orleans, Detroit, St. Louis, Atlanta, Birmingham, Jackson, Memphis, Southside Chicago, Harlem in NYC, South Los Angeles, North Philadephia and other.

Miami only have 22% black people that considered into heavy Haitian immigrant. Ghetto maybe not including for black immigrant.

Now, I understand about ghetto. Ghetto means like poor neighborhood, ugly community and alot of rundown house. It can be considered into high crime rate. Ghetto is not including for Hispanic, Asian and White. Most considred for poor African American in biggest American cities like New Orleans, Detroit, St. Louis, Atlanta, Birmingham, Jackson, Memphis, Southside Chicago, Harlem in NYC, South Los Angeles, North Philadephia and other.

Miami only have 22% black people that considered into heavy Haitian immigrant. Ghetto maybe not including for black immigrant.


LOL...trust me Blink, Miamians know that ghetto doesn't have to mean poor black neighborhoods, there are plenty of examples where that is not the case!

Hisma, it is not about being sensitive to these issues. Rather it is about bringing to truth to innacurate claims. That is it. Nothing more nothing less.

well, I suppose I was unfortunate enough to see the run-down part of Hialeah. Any local would know more about the area than I do, so I take your guys' word for it. I wasn't expecting to ruffle so many feathers with my comments, but I'll leave my opinions to myself unless I have something positive to say. I guess I'm just a bit more "pessimistic" than most ;)

LOL...trust me Blink, Miamians know that ghetto doesn't have to mean poor black neighborhoods, there are plenty of examples where that is not the case!

yeah. Upper class black family and middle class black family have nice clothes like rap, hip hop, some punk and some rock. They have money to buy nice Tripp punk pant for $55. :)

I have some black friend that they was rock/punk culture. They was not live in ghetto though but it have nice apartment in Hollywood.

Hialeah does have its rundown areas just like most other cities, including South Miami.

Hialeah does have its rundown areas just like most other cities, including South Miami.

Right. Everywhere in America have rundown but no one was point to be 100% non-rundown.

most people in hialeah about 80% own there homes outright
and believe it or not hialeah has a huge white population of old floridians

go to little havana and homewnership is only about 10-15 % the other 85-90% are people who rent.

so lets remove the poor statement aswell from yor previous post while we are at it...


thats just a little info so you can form informative educated post in the future

Hialeah does have its rundown areas just like most other cities, including South Miami.

Excellent point Xzayvier on South Miami the area diresctly east of Sunset Place is very upscale and is a upper-middle to upper class neghborhood, while directly across US-1 it is in fact "ghetto," the contrast is amazing!

You just happened to visit the really nice parts of South Miami, Hisma!

Actually, in southern Miami-Dade County, US-1 seems to be the dividing line for many of Miami's affluent communities to the east and the city's poorer (or just middle class) areas to the west....(one exception, the poor areas of Coconut Grove, are to the east of US-1 while the affluent neighborhoods of Coral Gable are directly to the west)!....Does anyone agree with this analysis!

Don't sweat it Hisma, I know it feels like we are bearing down on you, we just want to make sure you were properly informed on Miami's different neighborhoods!

RX brings up a key point. Home ownership equals lower crime rates. Due to the obvious fact that people that own are more vigilant, and are also inclined to open up small businesses or find work near their neighborhoods. Areas with low ownership rates are normally plagued with crime, often denote poverty, and leave little foundation for future residential and economic growth. This is why all the residential development occuring in the Park West, Omni-Venetia, and Financial Districts is so important in ensuring the increase in security and quality of life of those formely non-residential communities. Those areas are going to see home owners for the first time, and therfore these areas will be completely transformed for the better.

Te US1 observation is quite interesting and true. I had never realized that fact.

Does in Miami have alot of good job and affordable cost of living?

lool roark great answer, about gaining the fredrecos etc lool

its cool, I prefer to be educated than remain ignorant :)

NOT 50 YEARS FROM NOW MORE LIKE NEXT YEAR
AND ON ANOTHER POINT TOURISM IN MIAMI MAKES
OUR ECONOMY GREAT LAS VEGAS LIVES OFF OF
GAMBLING WHY CANT WE LIVE OFF OF TOURISM?

HERES AN UPDATE ON TRAFFIC IN MIAMI WHICH IS
A MILLION TIMES BETTER THEN CALIFORNIA TRAFFIC


State installing metered traffic lights on I-95 entry ramps

By Tom Harlan
The Florida Department of Transportation is installing metered traffic lights on Interstate 95 ramps to manage traffic during rush hour.
The ramp metering system will be in operation from Ives Dairy Road to Northwest 62nd Street late next year, officials said. The system, in which traffic lights channel merging traffic, is being implemented to improve traffic flow and reduce crashes during rush hour, department officials said.
The system will incorporate meters to control merging traffic from the ramps to the highway. Sensors along the highway will measure gaps between vehicles and transmit the information to a center, where the traffic lights would be controlled.
Ramp metering helps commuters merge onto freeways during peak travel times, said Jesus Martinez, an administrator for the department. While drivers might be annoyed and have to stop on a ramp, the system is one of the most effective means of alleviating bottlenecks, he said.
During peak traffic hours, ramp metering can increase traffic from 1,400 automobiles per lane per hour to up to 2,200, according to US Department of Transportation statistics. In addition, meters can cut crashes up to 50% during the peak of rush hour, the federal department says.
About 220,000 vehicles enter the 11-mile section of I-95 daily, according to department records.
The system could save commuters up to six minutes on a commute between the northern Miami-Dade county line and downtown Miami, Mr. Martinez said.
Miami is the seventh-worst are in the nation for traffic congestion, according to the Texas Transportation Institute's 2003 Urban Mobility Report.
The state transit department has few options to expand traffic arteries as Miami continues to grow over the next decade, Mr. Martinez said. Transportation projects such as ramp metering are needed to reduce travel times on I-95, State Road 826 and other major arteries, he said.
Also, the department's intelligent transportation system is to incorporate overhead signs, cameras and other devices to manage traffic, Mr. Martinez said. The devices are to be used to help manage traffic accidents and the consumer information network, an Internet service that would include Miami-Dade transit information and highway reports.
"Ramp metering is one of the many tools we are employing to manage traffic more effectively," Mr. Martinez said. "We can't just rely on building our way out of traffic."
Transit department officials studied metering systems in Minneapolis, Atlanta, Los Angeles and Seattle, Mr. Martinez said. A department contractor began the project in 2002.
The contractor is to finish installation in six to eight months and conduct tests for several months, Mr. Martinez said. Then the department will train workers on how to monitor the technology during peak traffic hours in the morning and afternoon.
"We have quite a lot of work to do," Mr. Martinez said. "We're not looking to deploy ramp metering until the end of next year."

LOGISTICS-FRIENDLY: Miami is the 22nd-most-logistics-friendly US metropolitan area, according to a ranking of the largest 100. Expansion Management and Logistics Today magazines produce the ranking in 10 categories. Miami ranked first in transportation and distribution industry climate, fifth in air cargo, sixth in workforce, 32nd in interstate highways and 42nd in waterborne commerce. Details: www.beaconcouncil.com.

Does in Miami have alot of good job and affordable cost of living?
YES BLINK :) , MIAMI does Have alot of JOB Openings , The Most Wanted in JOBs is Bilingual, its a 50/50 Better chance of a good 50,000 Plus annual Paying Job. :cheers:
Affordable Cost of LIVING :) in Miami-Dade County is With a FAMILY of 4 ,Income of 75,000 a Year, Can buy a 2 Bedroom- 2 Bathroom Single Family Home at around 150,000 in the WEST KENDALL LAKES :) area with a Front and Back yard, but Not much room on each side of the Home. I mean the Houses are very close to each other, so you might hear a little noise :bash: from your neighbor yelling at His or Her Kids, LOL. :cheers:

YES BLINK :) , MIAMI does Have alot of JOB Openings , The Most Wanted in JOBs is Bilingual, its a 50/50 Better chance of a good 50,000 Plus annual Paying Job. :cheers:
Affordable Cost of LIVING :) in Miami-Dade County is With a FAMILY of 4 ,Income of 75,000 a Year, Can buy a 2 Bedroom- 2 Bathroom Single Family Home at around 150,000 in the WEST KENDALL LAKES :) area with a Front and Back yard, but Not much room on each side of the Home. I mean the Houses are very close to each other, so you might hear a little noise :bash: from your neighbor yelling at His or Her Kids, LOL. :cheers:

Thank you so much for full information.

Free Mountain Dew or Pepsi for you. :cheers: :cheers:

I live in Orlando, and did my time in Miami ala Miami Lakes area. Here is MY assessment. Miami-Dade is like Orlando Metro: There are pockets of really nice areas that stand out among not-so-great areas. And those really nice areas DO IN FACT rival some of the best areas around the WORLD.

To me, the ENTIRE US-1 corridor is nice from Dadeland to I-95;
Collins, well, it goes without saying, is ALL nice;
NMB/Aventura on the mainland is pretty decent around 826- Aventura is a step up;
Miami Shores- not my speed (near Barry U.);
Opa Locka- needs a tactical nuke in downtown;
Carol City- (see Opa Locka);
Liberty City- I would be stating the obvious here, so, I won't;
LeJeune from MIA to Opa Locka- It's alright.

BUT, Los Angeles Metro has alot more worse neighborhoods than those mentioned. There's more people in LA metro than in Florida. Its the law of averages. What about the San Fernando Valley- the Porn capital of the world- is that just a bonafide industrial park of porn with no lower class slums?

Every City has its good and bad points. Many people hate Miami because they hate foreigners. Period. All the Florida rednecks hate Miami-Dade except for the Homestead NASCAR track. I TOOK Spanish in high school AND in college. I happen to be GREEK and understand why immigrants come to the U.S. and never learn the language- because they don't have to.

Go to NYC, Chicago, Detroit, San Fran, etc. Its the SAME STORY in those cities. People give Miami a bad rep b/c of the Cubans and other Latins. Personally, I think Miami is the only really interesting city in the SOUTH BECAUSE of its cultural diversity. Bada boom, bada bing.

and we should add little havana,little haiti and overtown to the bad list

I live in Orlando, and did my time in Miami ala Miami Lakes area. Here is MY assessment. Miami-Dade is like Orlando Metro: There are pockets of really nice areas that stand out among not-so-great areas. And those really nice areas DO IN FACT rival some of the best areas around the WORLD.

To me, the ENTIRE US-1 corridor is nice from Dadeland to I-95;
Collins, well, it goes without saying, is ALL nice;
NMB/Aventura on the mainland is pretty decent around 826- Aventura is a step up;
Miami Shores- not my speed (near Barry U.);
Opa Locka- needs a tactical nuke in downtown;
Carol City- (see Opa Locka);
Liberty City- I would be stating the obvious here, so, I won't;
LeJeune from MIA to Opa Locka- It's alright.

BUT, Los Angeles Metro has alot more worse neighborhoods than those mentioned. There's more people in LA metro than in Florida. Its the law of averages. What about the San Fernando Valley- the Porn capital of the world- is that just a bonafide industrial park of porn with no lower class slums?

Every City has its good and bad points. Many people hate Miami because they hate foreigners. Period. All the Florida rednecks hate Miami-Dade except for the Homestead NASCAR track. I TOOK Spanish in high school AND in college. I happen to be GREEK and understand why immigrants come to the U.S. and never learn the language- because they don't have to.

Go to NYC, Chicago, Detroit, San Fran, etc. Its the SAME STORY in those cities. People give Miami a bad rep b/c of the Cubans and other Latins. Personally, I think Miami is the only really interesting city in the SOUTH BECAUSE of its cultural diversity. Bada boom, bada bing.

South Central L.A. (after Hyde Park), Compton, Inglewood, Watts and North Long Beach (Just behind to Compton) is worst neigborhood, high crime rate and alot of gang warface.

Boyle Height, East L.A., Downtown L.A., Northeast San Ferando Valley and midtown are average but most safe in daytime. Murder rate in city of Los Angeles have been fell to 50% in 1995 but it fell more than 20% this year.

L.A. is very cultural diversity too. Mexican and other latino from Central America does not make L.A. more worse. I just noticed in latino neigborhood don't commited into much crime as like African American neigborhood does. Latino neigborhood just seem quiet and poverty but not all Latino neigborhood are poor.

If one city in suburb of Los Angeles that including 60,000 population and 80% was Hispanic. This city only have 1 through 5 murder per year. That seem much lower than national average.

Where is Overtown in Miami?

Sorry to hear that you left and will never come back. Like many people, I have great job (how many good jobs did you need?). Sure there are rude people, there are also people from other cultures that haven't fully integrated their experiences/education to the subtilties of what we may consider polite culture, they may even be holding on to their former country's proper protocols. I'll deal with a few people walking through the door and letting it close for the opportunities to learn about other cultures. They will come around! As for the freeway complaint. Okay. Hopefully these lights you mention will make commuting from suburbs so appealing that I'll move away from the water, stop taking the MetroMover to work, and start singing the praises of freeway life.
The city that I live in today is very nice. 50 years from now, it will likely be even better. Not a chance that a Floridian will trade their tax bill with a Californian.
The balanced and diverse economy has served us quite well during the 2000 recessioin when the rest of the country was reeling and downsizing, Miami was still booming, and continues to boom. Not too many Fortune 500 companies here. Lot's of medical services, import/export, banking, and of course, tourism.
Immigration is the highest form of flattery!
For every Fredcali we loose, we gain a Federico, Francoise, Fredrick, and some very nice Fernandas.


:applause: :applause: :applause:

I Agree BHK :) , To ROARK :) !!! :cheers:

I will disagree

then leave

It's not really accurate to describe Hialeah as "ghetto". It would be more accurate to say that Hialeah's building and zoning department took a 20 year lunch break and allowed a situation to develop with illegal (and just plain bad) construction that it will NEVER be able to rectify because it would be political suicide.

I read somewhere that a conservative estimate is that something like 89% of the Hialeah's single-family homes have at least one MAJOR zoning/building code violation, and dozens of lesser ones. If their building or zoning department even TRIED to crack down on existing violations, public outrage would get the whole department fired within a matter of days. Their only hope is to someday meticulously document and grandfather all but the worst existing violations (and maybe even a few of THOSE), then try to enforce the building codes and zoning from that point forward.

Hialeah's main problem is the fact that pre-Cubans, it was basically white trash urban-fringe semi-rural outback, with lots of trailer parks and mediocre, poorly-maintained buildings. Stuff got done half-ass because nobody really cared, or really thought it would ever be anything BESIDES white-trash urban-fringe semi-rural outback. So they let people build buildings 20 feet from the (then 4-lane) Palmetto expressway, and as the rest of Miami grew, allowed developers to build low-rise condominiums with inadequate parking right next to industrial warehouses, off of roads a half step above gravel that weren't even up to the task of handling the traffic BACK THEN.

That said, if someone wanted to know the best place for someone without a lot of money to invest in real estate TODAY, I'd probably tell them to buy stuff in downtown Hialeah... thanks to all the road improvements in the area, it's become accessible to the rest of Dade County for the first time in history (as opposed to being a virtual peninsula, isolated by a hostile City of Miami Springs and canal to the south, generally dangerous hardcore-ghetto Liberty City to the east, and absolute road disaster along its western edge south of 103 st). South Beach is a 15 minute drive (or less). Brickell is 20. MIA is 10 minutes south, and best of all, most of Hialeah isn't even in a direct flight path. Hell, there's even a metrorail station in a fairly central location.

Downtown Hialeah is SO ripe for redevelopment it's scary. For developers, it's a dream come true, like working-class white ethnic neighborhoods in cities like Chicago and Pittsburgh -- depressed property values and not terribly pretty, but generally safe and stable, with existing residents that wealthier new arrivals don't automatically fear. And, in fact, far from being antagonistic towards the new arrivals, generally welcome the new residents because they own their own homes and don't have to worry about getting priced out of the neighborhood anyway, and it means they don't have to worry about their neighborhood going in the other (*nudge nudge*) direction (tu sabes... los moros)...

:) I don't have any problems with Hialeah, Its suicide to drive down 103 av lol. but its cool though, I love cuban food so its soo worth it to go down there. :)

nicely put canes, i think hialeah is gonna b the next neighborhood that were gonna start seeing projects come out of

^^Where is Downtown Hialeah?

and why is driving down 103rd suicide? Traffic? cause traffic was a HUGE BITCH when I last passed through there!

ya, traffic is a huge bitch on 103rd, although that new onramp is a godsend, we need that in alot more places along the palmetto

i too am baffled, where is downtown hialeah, i didnt even no there was one

any new develelopment here is gonna b middle class, this will never b a high class neighborhood, but i do see a great many middle income nice midrise condominiums in the future for hialeah

Heading north on LeJeune, turn left onto Okeechobee and go to Curtiss Parkway and turn right at Palm Avenue.

There are a few places where you can actually envision it looking like downtown Coral Gables someday. Which isn't entirely a coincidence... Hialeah, Opa-Locka, and Coral Gables were all Merrick communities. When the real estate boom crashed in the 20s, Merrick abandoned Hialeah and Opa-Locka to save Coral Gables. But traces of his handiwork are everywhere, with the race track probably being the crown jewel.

From what I vaguely remember from a lecture by a Coral Gables historian back when I was at UM, Hialeah was originally supposed to have deep-water canals leading to the river (direct access to the bay!) and be an inland version of Coral Gables, complete with mansions and yachts.

It's obvious why downtown Hialeah 's there... back in the 20s, the part that most people NOW think of as Hialeah (by Westland Mall) was hardcore everglades, just like everything south of US-1 and the railroad tracks that used to be where Metrorail is now was. Miami's western development was almost entirely along US-41 (Tamiami Trail/SW 8 street) and US-27 (Okeechobee Road). Coral Gables' northern boundary is 8 street, Hialeah's southern boundary is Okeechobee rd. It's also fairly obvious why hardly anyone who doesn't live in Hialeah has ever been there... until VERY recently, all of the roads leading there from elsewhere in Miami were gridlocked disasters. The only reason I actually know about it is because last January (when I first started looking at condos) I considered buying a condo in Los Portales (a new development there where some builder bought a few dozen square blocks, demolished almost everything in sight, and built some fairly nice townhomes in their place.

I haven't been there in a while, but I think there is enough room between Hialeah Station and the racetrack to squeeze a strip of Downtown Dadeland-type condos and retail in there. In 3 or 4 years (when MIC is mostly done), Le Jeune road is going to be a clear shot all the way south to 836, and 74th street (aka "The Hialeah Expressway"), which happens to run straight west from the station, will be rebuilt and be an easy trek all the way to the Palmetto and Palmetto Station (another obvious candidate for Dadeland-style development). Okeechobee Station is probably a lost cause for urbanization, though... from what I remember, it's surrounded by hardcore industrial-type stuff and a big (most likely permanent) active rail yard that's probably fundamentally incompatible with even middle-class highrises and retail, let alone upscale ones.

^^Where is Downtown Hialeah?

and why is driving down 103rd suicide? Traffic? cause traffic was a HUGE BITCH when I last passed through there!

Traffic is terrible on 103 av, Okeechobee, le jeune. but again traffic is terrible all over South Florida I mean when I first moved to Pembroke Pines I used to take I 75 to go to work in Miami and it wasn't that bad, but now I 75 it's just like I 95 at rush hour terrible.

I've been to downtown Hialeah at nite. It's not that bad. Didn't they widen or improve Okeechobee a couple of years ago coming in from 826? I agree, getting in and out of Hialeah in the past was like that Bill Murray movie "Quick Change" when they got off the expressway somewhere in NYC and couldn't find their way back.

Cool...thanks for all the info guys..I might have to make a trek out there when I go back to Miami for Christmas!

then leave

No way I love Lauderdale. I just avoid Miami..........

No way I love Lauderdale. I just avoid Miami..........

aww...why do you hate your big brother to the south?...p.s.I'm not trying to turn this into some malicious, mud-slinging battle (I'm sure uptown-mitown and nimbyhater will handle that for me), I just wanna know what you dislike about Miami that, conversely, Ft Lauderdale does better! :)

Honestly I think Miami is very kewl. I like Lauderdale because the pace is slower its like a big small town. Im not a Miami hater I just stated I do not agree with someones earlier comment about what the city offers. If I did like Miami and it had what appeals to me I would be living there. Theres a lot of things that do not appeal to me but thats on a negative side and I don't want to turn this into that, so I simply stated "I disagree" and nimbyhaters response is "then leave"
I'm not there to begin with. I poped in here to find out more about Miami and why people talk it up and maybe find out more about areas I hav'nt seen and reshape my opinion.

^^cool beans!

lol, scraperdude, south florida would b a lesser place witout, that was my bad, lol

and street, me and uptown just jump on people's asses cause were passionate people, lol, its a cuban thing *wink, at least for me, i got no idea wat uptown is

I've been to downtown Hialeah at nite. It's not that bad. Didn't they widen or improve Okeechobee a couple of years ago coming in from 826? I agree, getting in and out of Hialeah in the past was like that Bill Murray movie "Quick Change" when they got off the expressway somewhere in NYC and couldn't find their way back.
Okeechobee Rd (US 27) has been widened to six lanes with median from Le Jeune Rd all the way to the Turnpike, except at the Palmetto interchange which is under construction... The newest segment, probably completed about 2 years ago, is from Le Jeune to NW 74th St, which has landscaped sidewalks and a palm tree-lined median.

In Hialeah Gardens (west of the Palmetto) a new intersection was built to provide a connection across the Miami Canal between S. River Drive and Okeechobee Rd... connecting Hialeah and Hialeah Gardens with Medley.

And right now, the biggest upgrade yet to open is the new flyover from northbound Le Jeune to north(west)bound Okeechobee... This is at the crossroads of NW 36th St, Okeechobee, Le Jeune Rd (NW 42nd Ave/E 8th Ave), and State Road 112. It's gonna be great once it finally opens.

I haven't been there in a while, but I think there is enough room between Hialeah Station and the racetrack to squeeze a strip of Downtown Dadeland-type condos and retail in there. In 3 or 4 years (when MIC is mostly done), Le Jeune road is going to be a clear shot all the way south to 836, and 74th street (aka "The Hialeah Expressway"), which happens to run straight west from the station, will be rebuilt and be an easy trek all the way to the Palmetto and Palmetto Station (another obvious candidate for Dadeland-style development). Okeechobee Station is probably a lost cause for urbanization, though... from what I remember, it's surrounded by hardcore industrial-type stuff and a big (most likely permanent) active rail yard that's probably fundamentally incompatible with even middle-class highrises and retail, let alone upscale ones.
The Palmetto Station is ideal, however, it's a long shot since the station is in Medley, which tends to zone industrial almost exclusively.

I think there might also be potential for commercial development at the Tri-Rail transfer station (plus the Amtrak station is right there too) ... Interconnect the three terminals, build a retail complex, a few restaurants, build some condos... voilà! A whole new way to think about Ja-ya-lía... :)

TIVO, Good INFO, But there still is a Part of Okeechobee Road thats still a Four-lane from the 74th street Connector to the Palmetto Expressway, If you drive it , like I do at least once a week, That part still has to be Done.

The Palmetto Station is ideal, however, it's a long shot since the station is in Medley, which tends to zone industrial almost exclusively.

Methinks it's only a matter of time before Medley relaunches itself as "North Doral". When it comes to sheer tax value, you can beat luxury condos and upscale retail. Miami-Dade county (and to a lesser extent, the City of Miami) might fret about the loss of jobs due to escalating property values causing luxury condos to displace employment centers and send the jobs to Broward, but Medley has basically no residents to speak of anyway, and I suspect it could give a flying f**k about the consequences of encouraging unrestrained residential development there upon the rest of the county. Just imagine the Mayor of Medley's office, as s/he sits in front of an Excel spreadsheet, jaw dropped, upon seeing just how much cash is going to come rolling in from ONE 30 story luxury condo with a hundred half-million dollar units sitting across the street from Palmetto metrorail station alone...

Plus, it's not like most of Miami's "industry" is the dirty, noisy, unpleasant kind like they have in places like New York and the northeast. Let's face it... in Miami, buying a condo next door to an "industrial" area usually means something like a FedEx depot or electronics import company. Hell, the "industrial" park where I work (one of the hundreds in Beacon Center off 87th ave in Doral) WOULD actually be a pretty nice place to live ;-)

I give the industrial users within a quarter mile of Palmetto Station 10 years max before the last one is gone and the area makes Dadeland North look rural by comparison. Easy access to metrorail, Doral, and Hialeah. Big, brand new roads. A few hundred thousand upscale residents in Medley... who'd have ever thought it could happen just 10 years ago, when that area didn't even have a ZIP CODE, Doral was still under a sewage moratorium, and the next exit north after 836 was Okeechobee road? :eek2:

Methinks it's only a matter of time before Medley relaunches itself as "North Doral". When it comes to sheer tax value, you can beat luxury condos and upscale retail. Miami-Dade county (and to a lesser extent, the City of Miami) might fret about the loss of jobs due to escalating property values causing luxury condos to displace employment centers and send the jobs to Broward, but Medley has basically no residents to speak of anyway, and I suspect it could give a flying f**k about the consequences of encouraging unrestrained residential development there upon the rest of the county.
Interesting thought... it would definitely be a paradigm shift for them... Doral developed and already had a good residential base before the County let them incorporate... The County was providing their services when it was part of UMSA (and almost basically still does now).. It would be the opposite for Medley -- already incorporated and used to providing MINIMAL residential municipal services.

I can't see very many places in Broward that could house all of those industries, or anyone who would want to take the "dirtier"/"dustier" ones. The clean warehouse bays would probably go to Miramar... But I don't see Miramar taking in Rinker and the cinder block plants.

I wonder what would happen to Miami International Airport and the Port of Miami cargo operations... Increased truck traffic traveling longer distances, etc., and a shift to using Fort Lauderdale and Port Everglades. Hmmm... so as all of this transit-oriented development is being built, and all the jobs going someplace where the transit network is decades behind. hmmm....

who'd have ever thought it could happen just 10 years ago, when that area didn't even have a ZIP CODE, Doral was still under a sewage moratorium, and the next exit north after 836 was Okeechobee road? :eek2:
oh, yes... believe you me... I travel that stretch almost everyday and have seen the area explode.. I'm waiting for a 70-something'th Street exit as well as full speed Sunpass lanes à la 836 at the Okeechobee toll plaza...

Hmmm... so as all of this transit-oriented development is being built, and all the jobs going someplace where the transit network is decades behind.

And you've just brought up one of the dark secrets of pushing transit over roads instead of maxing out BOTH. High-density development really only works for value-dense businesses with expensive employees. NOBODY is going to build a tractor factory, fruit packing depot, or shipyard in the middle of a dense central business district where transit is cost effective. For one thing, zoning laws won't let them. For another, it would be cost-prohibitive. They're always going to be located as far away from anything remotely urban as possible because it's cheaper and presents fewer government-imposed hassles.

The proposed "Melrose" Metrorail station is a perfect example of the folly. MDTA's own studies basically say, "there's no real economic justification for spending $50 million to build a station across the street from a large shipyard with a few dozen employees and maybe a hundred residents living in single-family homes (on land explicitly zoned for single-family, so redeveloping it would be an insurmountable barrier to most developers) within a half mile, with minimal likelihood that either the shipyard or single-family residences are going away anytime soon thanks to zoning, but we might as well build it anyway because otherwise someone is going to bitch to the federal government that we're not providing equal service to poor areas"

where was that melrose station proposed?

i've never heard of a melrose station,is there going to be one?

I'm not sure whether it was mooted by the final alignment that was chosen, but it was/is basically going to sit halfway between Earlington Heights and MIC. Basically, the people who lived in the neighborhood were bitching about having to put up with the noise from Metrorail and demanded a station to make up for it, even though the staffing costs ALONE would exceed the total amount they could EVER hope to collect in revenues, even if every single person living or working within a half mile used it daily.

Think: the two pointless 15-story high Metromover stations on both sides of the River that accounted for about 1/3 of the Brickell line's cost, even though future developers would have almost certainly incorporated the tracks into their buildings and built stations at their own expense anyway.

Never Never Lands
Planned But Never Built

It was a great billboard. Big and colorful, with artwork depicting the wonders to come, it stood watch over the vacant land near Biscayne Bay for years. An amazing new theme park, Interama, would shortly be built on this very site -- the sign said so.
The only thing wrong with the sign was that it wasn't true. Interama was not to be, another dream to die stillborn in the Florida sun. Disney had it right; he refered to his Imagineers as Dreamers and Doers. To dream was not enough, you had to follow through.

These are Florida's Never Never Lands -- the fantasy lands that would never, never be built, despite announcements and billboards and even, in some cases, groundbreaking. The rumors and the failed projects that started with a bang and then, usually, simply faded away from the public eye.

When it comes to new attractions -- don't believe it 'till you see it. You won't be seeing:


Bible World
Back in the 1970's a biblical theme park was proposed for Kissimmee. This proposed park is not the Holy Land Experience which did open, but a park on the same theme that never happened.
Blockbuster Park
Known to the irreverent as "Wayne's World", Blockbuster Park was a giant sports and theme park complex proposed for Broward County by Blockbuster Video stores owner H. Wayne Huizenga in the early 1990's. While the park was working its way through zoning and permitting (and tax concessions were being pondered by the legislature), Wayne sold Blockbuster to Viacom, which nixed the project.
(Viacom would become theme park owners anyway with the acquisition of Paramount and that company's already developed parks.)


Charlie Daniels Western World and Theme Park
In 1994, Country fiddler Daniels and Florida stockbroker Michael Vandiver were at a Las Vegas rodeo when they got the idea of developing a rodeo arena back in Pasco County, Florida. Soon the project grew into a huge complex offering a full arena, concert venues, hotels, golf courses, and a western themed theme park on 1,954 acres near Saddlebrook at I-75 and SR 54.
They had the land, they had the ideas, and they had powerhouse themed entertainment designers Landmark Entertainment Group working on the plan, including a 3D show based on Daniels' popular hit "The Devil Went Down To Georgia" . What they were still working on is the funding.

In the 1990's Vandiver told the St. Petersburg Times: "Five years ago, I would have said (the chances of pulling this project off) probably weren't a hundred percent. A year ago, I would have said 50 percent. Now I'm at about 85 to 90 percent. Things are happening."

The park was to have opened in 1997.


Hurricane World
What? You don't want to think about hurricanes on your vacation? This Orlando project was supposed to be both a serious hurricane research center, and a tourist attraction featuring giant simulated storms. Now, it's gone with the wind.

Interama
In 1951 the State of Florida created the Inter-American Center Authority to build a cultural and trade center. A trade center building was built, but the cultural part...
A permanent international exhibition park was planned -- inspiration taken half from past Worlds Fairs and half from the new Disneyland in California. It would be a theme park, but unlike other theme park projects, it was hoped that the governments of the various countries would contribute to the building of their representative pavilions much as they do for a Worlds Fair, except that this would be a permanent commitment.

The United States was looked to to provide the bulk of the financing, and bills to that effect were put before Congress by Rep. Claude Pepper, always happy to try and bring home the Pork to his district.

Land in North Miami was acquired and shortly after a huge sign touting the park's development was erected.

Congress, meanwhile, declined to fund the project. One after the other, Latin and South American Governments, with poverty to deal with in their own lands, declined to participate. (By the same token, Walt Disney World's EPCOT, which relies on sponsorships when building its national pavilions, showcases no South American nations.)

Private funding was sought, but little found. Interama continued to drift as a project for years, always hopeful, always just around the corner, never built.

Complications in the contracts involving the site itself, as well as a fight with the Department of Environmental Regulation over part of the site's use as a landfill, kept the land tied up right into the 1980's as the City of North Miami, stuck with paying off bonds on the unproductive land, lobbied the State of Florida to purchase the property.

In 1985 the State and City finally made a deal as the Legislature voted to buy the 300 acre tract, most of which would go to expand Florida International University's Bay Vista Campus.


Little England (AKA British Kingdom)
British grocery store magnate Lewis Cartier was the developer of this British themed theme park slated for Kissimmee in the early 1980's. Land was even cleared and a few buildings constructed, including a preview center, before the project ran into financial trouble. Actual building materials, and even buildings, were imported from England for the first phase, a small but authentic country village.
But the ancient english tiles and wood were no match for neglect and the hot, humid Florida weather -- after the project stalled the buildings eventually had to be demolished, deemed unsalvageable after the local insects had a feast on prime British Oak.

A housing development eventually went into the nicely prepared site with with no hint of a British theme in sight.


Paramount Orlando
The Orlando Sentinel once reported the rumor that Paramount was looking to buy the old Lockheed Martin property to build a film studio. Paramount did not, in fact, buy it (Universal Studios did, but later sold it). Viacom, Paramount's current owners, has shown very little interest in developing more theme parks -- see Blockbuster Park above.

Roy Rogers Western World
Western Star Roy Rogers announced plans for a huge resort/dude ranch/western theme park in the early 1960's and claimed to be searching for a suitable site in the Orlando area. No less a figure than Florida's Governor Burns was on hand at Roy's press conferences to pledge his assistance. Roy never found that site and finally said happy trails to Florida.

Six Flags Florida
Yes, Six Flags did once look into buying Circus World. They passed. A Jacksonville politician tried to get them to build in that area. They looked, but they passed. They once owned Stars Hall of Fame and Six Flags Atlantis in Florida -- they sold them. Six Flags has not, to date, announced any plans for a Florida theme park whatsoever, and consistently denies all rumors.

Desipte this, not a year goes by without a coaster enthusiast announcing that their uncle's brother's friend's friend is a sewer worker who says they're working on a secret construction project to build a new Six Flags in Florida. Never happens.

It would seem many enthusiasts are laboring under a basic misunderstanding of how major construction projects actually happen in the real world. A business like Six Flags does not and cannot just buy a big plot of land and start building. Major projects like theme parks simply do not get to the construction stage without publicity following a lengthy zoning approval process before the local government. There are permits to be applied for, at which point the project becomes a matter of public record and the local media jump all over it. Environmental impact statements must be filed. Zoning hearings must take place. Usually, a group of locals makes a very noisy protest over it (see the history of most other modern theme parks). Public corporations like Six Flags must also inform shareholders what they're up to, so major projects will also be mentioned in their SEC filings and annual reports.

What this means is, if you haven't been seeing reports in the news for the past year about the planning and permitting process for such a theme park, and some twit assures you that they know someone who is involved in clearing land, or digging ditches, or breaking ground for one -- you can be assured that they are either delusional or lying to you. You simply can't clear the first bush or turn a spade of dirt on your property without a building permit.

There are no secret theme park construction projects. "What about Disney?" the enthusiast complains. "Disney World was built in secret." No, sorry. The aquisition of land was carried out mostly in secret, but the Orlando Sentinal blew Disney's cover before even that was finished. Construction, on the other hand, didn't begin until several years later after a very public act of the Florida Legislature approved it, several press conferences were held, and years of publicity announced the fact. Look at every major recent theme park building project, completed or not (Visionland, Jazzland, the reopening of Magic Springs, Disney's California Adventure, Entercitement City, World of Oz, etc.) and you can find a paper trail going back for years in the press, from proposal through construction, with big press events held at the groundbreaking ceremonies.

New construction is also unlikely right now in this already overcrowded market. Orlando's theme parks depend on long distance tourism, while Six Flags style ride parks rely more on regional visitors on daytrips. The people elsewhere in the country don't need to visit a Six Flags park on an expensive Florida vacation -- chances are they already live near one back home. They come to Florida to get something they can't get at home: Disney and Universal. That leaves the locals market, which is already served by Busch Gardens, as well as the Disney and Universal parks (which is why they offer resident discounts on annual passes and other resident deals), and which will soon have the revamped with rides Cypress Gardens.

While local enthusiasts always predict that a thrill ride oriented park would do better than Disney or Universal, that just shows a basic misunderstanding of the market. The money is in family travel, not roving packs of teen enthusiasts. Boardwalk and Baseball tried going the thrill ride route and never made a profit. Islands of Adventure was touted as a Disney-beater by enthusiasts before it opened, yet even Disney's half-day Animal Kingdom sees more annual visitors. It's easy for coaster enthusiasts to picture a Florida Six Flags park the equal of, say, Magic Mountain (which still attracts fewer visitors than Disneyland in the same market and can't even stay open 365 days a year), but that's in no way what a newly constructed park would look like. It takes years for a park to get that many coasters, one or two at a time, year after year. Even if Six Flags did build in Florida the park would look more like Visionland or Jazzland when it opened than a Disney-class park due to the starting investment required. (Islands of Adventure cost nearly a billion dollars and enthusiasts still think it needs more rides). Still think Six Flags would outdo Disney?

Disney also has an advantage in this market no outsider has: the Reedy Creek Improvement District. Back in the 1960's the Florida Legislature basically gave Disney the ability to build whatever they want, whenever they want, without a lengthy approval process. If they wanted to, in the time it would take Six Flags to get approval, Disney could build their own competing ride park and open first (as they managed to open Disney-MGM Studios between Universal's announcement of a Studios theme park and the actual opening). Disney has a history of building their own versions of the competition and outselling them (note the similarities between Animal Kingdom and Busch, The Living Seas and Sea World, Disney-MGM and Universal Studios, Pleasure Island and the now defunct Church Street Station, their waterparks and Wet 'n Wild, Disney's California Adventure and Knott's Berry Farm, Disney's West Side and Citywalk...) and Six Flags knows this, making the huge investment an Orlando park would take a huge risk.

Also, consider this: current Six Flags management doesn't develop parks from scratch. They prefer to buy existing parks and convert them. That means the only likely possibility for a Six Flags theme park in Florida would be if Busch or Universal or Cypress Gardens decided to sell out, and Six Flags decided to buy, and could swing the funding. As I update this article in mid-2004, Six Flags is in no financial condition to build or buy a new park -- they have sold off their European parks, sold Six Flags World of Adventure, and still have a rather large debt load from past aquisitions and improvement projects. They're not likely to build anything soon, in any market, let alone one as crowded as Central Florida.

What about elsewhere in Florida? South Florida has a large population, but it's still in the outer range for the Orlando parks, while Southwest Florida can reach Busch Gardens. It's an old population, however, with a smaller group in the young theme park demographic than would appear at first glance. There's also a limitation in driving range -- build a park in Miami and you serve that area but Orlando's to the North, there's only a small population to the South, and nothing but water to the East, making the population sparse in the outlying areas compared to parks in other areas of the country that can draw from miles around them. It could possibly support a smallish park, but the track record for getting new projects approved (see Blockbuster Park and Interama, among others) isn't good,and Pirates World failed. Boomers could stand watching: at least the Dania Beach Hurricane shows a roller coaster has some draw in the area. Maybe somebody will go in someday, but it sure won't be Six Flags any time soon.

The Jacksonville area is another possibility, but when the local government practically offered to give Six Flags free land in the booming 1990's Six Flags turned them down. To the South of Jacksonville the older population of some of the other counties would be expected to fight any big development (the head of the St. Johns County Tourist and Convention Bureau even said in the late 1990's that they don't want a Six Flags there), and don't forget that Marco Polo Park flopped. That area is also still within reach of Orlando, as well as the ever growing Wild Adventures in Valdosta, Georgia.

The panhandle has become a more likely target now that Miracle Strip is closing, but the population including tourists couldn't support anything much bigger than that park already was. A big park will not be going in there any time soon (yeah, I know, a Six Flags has been rumored for years in that area, but they have always flatly denied those rumors -- it's just not true).

I've also heard rumors for the Spring Hill area and Sebring -- also not gonna happen. Look at a map: modern theme parks are not built without major Interstate Highway access. A theme park could never get approval to add that kind of traffic to clogged US 19 or US 27: every retiree home owners association for miles would protest it. Parks you can't get to go out of business.

The idea of a Six Flags Florida is still just wishful thinking on the part of coaster enthusiasts. If they ever do decide to build in Florida you won't have to hear it from your Mother's Brother's friend's dental hygenist's bridesmaid's nephew -- it'll be in the news long before construction begins.

Vedaland
New age magician Doug Henning announced in 1990 plans to build a theme park in Kissimmee, just west of Old Town, based on Magic and Transcendental Meditation. Then, Henning announced that he would build the first Vedaland in Canada, near Niagara Falls. Shortly thereafter the project, not unlike Henning's career, slowly faded, then disappeared.

WinterWonderlando
With a name like that, I almost wish they had built this cool sounding park. Instead, I'll keep dreaming of a white Christmas in Orlando.

Others
Other rumors/proposed projects have included Legoland Florida (Lego looked at the state but considered it an over-crowded market), Dollywood Orlando (Dolly's company built a musical dinner theater, NOT a theme park), and Opryland Orlando (Gaylord planned a hotel, not a theme park -- they already had closed Opryland Theme Park in Nashville before constructing the Gaylord Palms Hotel and Conference Center).

TRUE Uptown-Midtown :)

lol, scraperdude, south florida would b a lesser place witout, that was my bad, lol

and street, me and uptown just jump on people's asses cause were passionate people, lol, its a cuban thing *wink, at least for me, i got no idea wat uptown is
TRUE NIMBY :)

Thank god we bought our house in Coral Gables years ago when it was cheap, because now the prices are crazy. 250 000 for a house with one bedroom and one bathroom these days...

Does all of Miami-Dade County covered with ghetto and cookie-cutter suburbia? Does Miami-Dade County got alot diverse changed in 1980? (Like it changed into more Cuban than white people or European).


Most Cubans that live here are white. (85%)

Thank god we bought our house in Coral Gables years ago when it was cheap, because now the prices are crazy. 250 000 for a house with one bedroom and one bathroom these days...

Holy shit! You found a HOUSE in Coral Gables that's only $250k?!?!? Where is it?!? (runs to grab checkbook...)

:D

Miami is a good city for a vacation or just for visiting, not living. I mean if you live across the bridge on the beach thats good. Or the few "nice" suburbs we have. Other than that just visit for the mean time!

I suggest we all ignore the previous post!...don't wast your time:):)

ditto again^

LOL :D

Dang looks like we have a bunch of Broward, Miami-wannabe living people on this board also.

^do u even live here bobo?

or just grew up here and now egging miami from whereever your living now.
and if u did live here, u might have just had a bad experience,

My take is not to write off Boo Boo as an uniformed knucklehead....
I believe he has an alterior motive...he really does love in Miami, but his 18 year old model girlfriend just had her car towed, so he is discouraging people to locate here.
Boo boo couldn't possibly be as stupid as to say Miami is not a good place to live/love....
Give the guy/girl/dog some credit.

hahahah

^do u even live here bobo?

or just grew up here and now egging miami from whereever your living now.
and if u did live here, u might have just had a bad experience,
TRUE MIAballinboi :) , His Bad Experience was Being Homeless :bash: Living at the Columus House in Overtown. :sleepy:

Yeah Im from Miami, born and raised, and still kicking it here. And I dont understand what was wrong with my thread. Its not like EVERYWHERE in Miami or dade is good to live in. U can talk to plenty of people who have came from outtatown and ask them what they think.

I just browse around the forum and you guys act like nothings wrong with Mia, which I agree you guys didnt say specifically.

Yeah Im from Miami, born and raised, and still kicking it here. And I dont understand what was wrong with my thread. Its not like EVERYWHERE in Miami or dade is good to live in. U can talk to plenty of people who have came from outtatown and ask them what they think.

I just browse around the forum and you guys act like nothings wrong with Mia, which I agree you guys didnt say specifically.
TRUE BOBO :) , We're Talking about the GOOD OF MIAMI, There's NOTHING WRONG about That !, :cheers:
And WELCOME to the FLORIDA FORUM, Bozo, oops I mean Bobo :) , lol, Happy New Year, BRO !!! :cheers:

Holy shit! You found a HOUSE in Coral Gables that's only $250k?!?!? Where is it?!? (runs to grab checkbook...)

:D

My house! We bought the house at 25 or 40 thousand (we needed to ask for money for even that sadly) and now about 20 years later its 250 000, plus we got the money to add another section to the house :D and its going higher...

where the hell in the gables do u live that ur house is only worth 250k? dude, thats not possible

i live two blocks west of the gables in south miami and my house was 110k when we bought it about a year after andrew, today i could sell it for 500k

theres no way ur house is only worth that much dude

where the hell in the gables do u live that ur house is only worth 250k? dude, thats not possible

i live two blocks west of the gables in south miami and my house was 110k when we bought it about a year after andrew, today i could sell it for 500k

theres no way ur house is only worth that much dude
LOL, NIMBY :) , It must be on CORAL WAY, With the BILTMORE GOLF COURSE in the Back of the HOUSE, lol. :cheers:

where the hell in the gables do u live that ur house is only worth 250k? dude, thats not possible

i live two blocks west of the gables in south miami and my house was 110k when we bought it about a year after andrew, today i could sell it for 500k

theres no way ur house is only worth that much dude

Thats how the government valued it, but that is different from the market value which is probably 600 000 USD. I havent checked it in 3 years, I hope it doubled :cheers:

lol, ya, government values mine at like 120k, lol, fine by me, 1/5 the taxes i should b payin, lol

Ya, bunch of cheap men in black :D

I want to live in Orlando. I just think on my future kids. They jus gonna love to live there. A lots of fun parks that they gonna love to visit! Never been on either Disneyworld or Disneyland but my cousin have been on both. And Im little jealous. I want there.

Miami has it going on that's for sure.. But to me the future population is going to flood Orlando and Tampa, they offer more Americana life style.. :banana: And that's Orlampa as there suburbs one day could almost link up from ORL western suburbs to TPA's most eastern suburbs.. That is why the HSR is being built first in this major I-4 Corridor..

You know the Cali posters are going to hate on our great state...:cheers:

I want to live in Orlando. I just think on my future kids. They jus gonna love to live there. A lots of fun parks that they gonna love to visit! Never been on either Disneyworld or Disneyland but my cousin have been on both. And Im little jealous. I want there.

I live in winter park a northern suburb of Orlando and I love it , it has a great urban vibe and it is near everything !!! We have all types of people here generation Y , X , baby boomers , families , retirees , college kids , with all types of neighborhoods , it is historical as well
you should come down and visit you will love it I bough a 2 bedroom condo here in winter park

I live in winter park a northern suburb of Orlando and I love it , it has a great urban vibe and it is near everything !!! We have all types of people here generation Y , X , baby boomers , families , retirees , college kids , with all types of neighborhoods , it is historical as well
you should come down and visit you will love it I bough a 2 bedroom condo here in winter park

The photos that SkyDiveJunkee posted of Winter Park are great! Why don't you post your own perspective of Winter Park the way Simms3 posted of Jacksonville? Let's keep the Florida forum alive. I'm already plastered enough Miami pics all over everywhere else!:lol::):cheers:

I don't know what city yall talking about but hialeah homeownership is lower than Miami gardens, and on average our median income is a few thousand dollars shorter than them, and that city includes carol city and parts of opa locka. Hialeah aint the spot you want to live at, most of us are trying to get out