374 – 376 (LOTS 7 AND 8), 378 – 394 (LOT 132) AND 396 (LOT 2) MURRAY STREET, PERTH – PROPOSED 15-LEVEL COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT CONTAINING A LOWER GROUND RETAIL / OFFICE TENANCY, FIVE GROUND FLOOR RETAIL TENANCIES AND ONE CAFÉ, 12 LEVELS OF OFFICE SPACE AND 87 VEHICLE PARKING BAYS – REQUEST FOR BONUS PLOT RATIO

DETAILS
Approval is sought to redevelop the existing public car park and the adjoining single and two storey commercial buildings to the east and west respectively, fronting Murray Street, to construct a 15-level commercial building including ground and lower ground retail, café and office space and 12 levels of office. The aggregate site area is 4,928m2.

Lower Ground (Shafto Lane):-
This level emerges from the natural ground level along the western boundary as the site slopes progressively down towards Wellington Street. A vehicle and pedestrian connection is proposed as a northern extension to Shafto Lane beyond Murray Street and Wellington Street, providing vehicle access to the site and a pedestrian connection along the full length of the western boundary of the site.
The proposed vehicle access is via a private right-of-way over the adjacent site forming 625 - 639 (Lot 15) Wellington Street which accommodates the Telstra building. The proposed pedestrian connection immediately east of the vehicle access, within the subject site, varies in width between 1.5 and 2.5 metres. This pedestrian facility is intended to accommodate a future pedestrian connection through to Wellington Street upon the redevelopment of the lot(s) immediately north of the subject site. The adjacent proposed alfresco area extends the space in certain locations up to 6 metres in width.
Fronting the proposed pedestrian connection is a retail / office space in the north eastern corner of the site. The remainder of the lower ground level contains bicycle, change facilities, a bin store, service / storage areas, the principal vehicle access, loading / disabled bays and 15 vehicle parking bays.
The pedestrian facilities and retail / office space form the basis of a proposed plot ratio bonus for the site and will be discussed in a presentation.

Ground Level:-
This level contains five retail tenancies fronting Murray Street, with the western most tenancy having a dual aspect to a proposed colonnade and pedestrian access / alfresco areas to both Murray Street and Shafto Lane. The south eastern corner of the building is truncated and includes a grassed mound and timber seating. The level also includes a 238m2 lobby fronted internally by a café and seating area. The remainder of this level incorporates 36 vehicle parking bays and two motor cycle bays.

Level One:-
This level contains two office tenancies fronting Murray Street and Shafto Lane totalling 2,026m2 divided by a central void and includes 36 vehicle parking bays and two motor cycle bays.
Level Two:-

The level includes a 2,511m2 office around a central core and includes a terrace to Murray Street forming the podium for the building and a staff break out area forming the upper floor of the central projecting entrance feature to Murray Street.

Level Three:-

This level includes a 2,537m2 office around a central core and small terrace located centrally to the Murray Street frontage.

Levels Four to Twelve:-

These levels include similar floor plates to those below, excluding the terrace. The floor plates vary marginally to each level given the geometric projection forming the main feature to the tower

Level Thirteen:-
This level accommodates a plant deck of approximately 1,160m2. It is noted that a further vertical projection of 5 metres in height above this floor occurs to accommodate a 118m2 machinery room and lift core.

Grounds for Bonus Plot Ratio:
The applicant has sought a plot ratio bonus of 20%, or 4928m2, for the provision of:-

Shafto Lane widening for pedestrian access (all within the subject site). Activation of Shafto Lane through design of alfresco areas. Truncation of ground floor retail – entry to Shafto Lane. Sculptured artwork around the entry from Murray Street footpath.

The applicant provided the following information in support of the bonus plot ratio:-

“Shafto Lane Widening
Shafto Lane and Murray Street frontage, will be linked to the surrounding public domain in a significant upgrade to Shafto Lane and Murray Street. This will create a new pedestrian/retail streetscape and provide an important pedestrian link between Murray Street and Wellington Street. The upgrade of Shafto Lane is consistent with the Statement of Intent for the Precinct and with the principles of the City’s “Forgotten Spaces – Revitalising Perth’s Laneways” document. As Shafto Lane is a privately owned ROW, its redevelopment potential hinges on input from its owner. The transformation of Shafto Lane into an urban environment will provide the locality with a unique pedestrian link and replicate the successful upgrade of nearby King Street and Wolf Lane (for example).
Given that the land known as “Shafto Lane” is not under the control of the owner of the subject site, an innovative design has ensued which will ensure a 2.5m widening of Shafto Lane can be realised. This widening is proposed to be primarily for ‘pedestrians’...[and will have a] strategic role in providing a mid block pedestrian link between the soon to be realised Northbridge Link project and the remainder of the Perth Central Area.

Activation of Shafto Lane
In conjunction with the above point, the design of the building will not only realise a long required need for pedestrian activity in and around the northern area of Shafto Lane, but also activate the streetscape with active uses aimed at ensuring “eyes on the lane” is realised, although the location of this proposed use in itself does not warrant a plot ratio bonus as per the provisions of CPS2 and the Plot Ratio Policy, it does significantly add to the ‘opening’ of Shafto Lane to the public and works in a close relationship with the widening of the space. That is to say, a combination of the 2.5m widening along the site’s western boundary, and the activation of the space works in a collaborative approach to ensuring the pedestrian and retail realm of Shafto Lane can be realised.

Truncation of Built Form
The proposed plans have included a truncated pedestrian link which is aimed at promoting the use of Shafto Lane by pedestrians....[T]he creation of this ‘desire line’ will not only assist in the use of Shafto Lane, but it will also promote the use...It is believed this in collaboration with the widening and activation of Shafto Lane will ensure a significant change to the urban form in and around the subject site...

Artwork
It is acknowledged that ‘artwork’ is not a criterion for awarding plot ratio bonus..., however, it is our opinion that should artwork be used as an architectural tool, then it can be considered to assist in the overall quality of the development and therefore can be contemplated. In relation to the proposal, the lobby space immediately abutting Murray Street has incorporated a significant architecturally designed piece of art which goes ‘above and beyond’ that required under the provision of CPS 2. Furthermore, this artwork assists in the formality of the entry to the building and in combination with the remaining bonus items, assists in the overall development’s design.”

Moved by Mr Davies, seconded by Mr Thierfelder
That the Design Advisory Committee, having considered the proposed 15-level commercial development containing a lower ground retail / office tenancy, five ground floor retail tenancies and one café, 12 levels of office space and 87 vehicle parking bays including a request for bonus plot ratio at 374 – 376 (Lots 7 and 8), 378 – 394 (Lot 132) and 396 (Lot 2) Murray Street, Perth:-
1. does not support the awarding of 20% bonus plot ratio as the proposed pedestrian facilities within the development and the design and nature of the proposed development as a whole are not considered to constitute a significant improvement to the amenities of the area to an extent worthy of a substantial bonus;
2. does not support the design of the proposed building for the following reasons:-
2.1 the monolithic form of the building does not respect the rhythm and fine grain of the built form that characterises the Murray Street streetscape. The form of the podium and the width of the tower require review in order for the development to complement the streetscape;
2.2 supports the applicant’s justification for the variation to the building height requirement, however, notes that the extensive width and monolithic form of the building exacerbates the overshadowing impacts;
2.3 there is insufficient detail provided to assess the appropriateness of the design and form of the single storey element adjacent to Shafto Lane;
2.4 the façade design does not appear to incorporate any passive solar design treatments to enhance the energy efficiency of the building;
2.5 the truncated form of the ground floor, while linking directly to Shafto Lane, detracts from the activation of Murray Street.

*sigh*

http://perth.wa.gov.au/documentdb/2557.pdf

What a waste of space

The ONLY good thing about this being an office is that there will be no residents to complain about capitol and amps. Anyway, fuck this. I wonder what it looks like though.

2. does not support the design of the proposed building for the following reasons:-
2.1 the monolithic form of the building does not respect the rhythm and fine grain of the built form that characterises the Murray Street streetscape. The form of the podium and the width of the tower require review in order for the development to complement the streetscape;

nothing says rhythm like a surface car park and giant bomb proof telstra building

Makes some good usage of that single level carpark.

This must be old now ?..Looks to have more than 12lvs of office space.
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/245/396murrayvw8.jpg

that's the one i was after.

That was posted ages ago wasn't it?

yep.

This must be old now ?..Looks to have more than 12lvs of office space.
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/245/396murrayvw8.jpg

I find it hard to believe this was knocked back...

Sigh. Why do we keep making the same mistakes over and over again :(

that's because we haven't got to the 1st step yet (acknowledgement)

Woohoo, found this on realestate commercial today... Nice & Wide....

396 Murray Street, Perth, WA 6000
Property No. 5843861

http://images2.au.reastatic.net/800x600/Commercial/3861/5843861,1315807784,ImageA.jpg

http://images1.au.reastatic.net/800x600/Commercial/3861/5843861,1315807713,Main.jpg

http://images1.au.reastatic.net/800x600/Commercial/3861/5843861,1315807801,ImageB.jpg

http://images2.au.reastatic.net/800x600/Commercial/3861/5843861,1315807918,ImageC.jpg


Offices
Floor Area: 2098.0 m² - 30456.0 m²

For Lease: From $735/sqm plus GST Plus Outgoings

Property Description
396 Murray Street, Perth
396 Murray Street is centrally located in the western end of the CBD. Wellington Street provides easy access north and south via the Kwinana and Mitchell Freeways, as well as Perth's western and eastern suburbs.

Free CAT buses pass the building's entrance and there are extensive public car parking facilities nearby with entrances off Murray Street.

King Street, the Murray Street and Hay Street shopping malls, numerous small bars, cafes and restaurants are all in close proximity, as is St Georges Terrace via the southern section of Shafto Lane. Perth Train station is a short two block stroll to the east.

The building is a high grade 12 level office tower with ground floor retail and large efficient floor plates which enjoy abundant natural light. End-of-trip facilities for the building's occupants include secure bicycle storage, separate male and female showers, change facilities and lockers.

5 Star NABERS Energy Base Building rating is being targeted.

4 Start Greenstar is also being targeted.

Source (http://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-offices-wa-perth-5843861)

EDIT:
If you want to print out this as a brochure. :)
http://properties.knightfrank.com.au/wp-content/plugins/Realty/display/elements/brochure.php?property_id=109433

HOT.

I'll take this monolith. Will do wonders for bulking up that end of town. The ground level also gets my tick of approval.

Fucking design advisory committee. They will probably water it down to just a plain glass box.

Also those terraces should be a restaurant/bar or some other interesting use.

Wow nice. Lets hope it goes through.

LOL this will be knocked back. Too big too much shadow too good too much glass too little white too many angles........ pick your reason.

DAP's get the final say.

LOL this will be knocked back. Too big too much shadow too good too much glass too little white too many angles........ pick your reason.

:lol: Oh man don't say that.. :ohno: you are probably going to be correct...

Someone needs to sack the current council approval team if they are going to forever knock back big shaddow bldgs and fancy developments. The council needs to get some in some new blood in there to breath a fresh vision to the City of Perth. Isn't there an election coming up this October? :)

That might help with getting decent proposals and less white fridges too? Will it not :nuts:

Activating Shafto Lane should be enough to get it approved.

I hope it goes ahead as is.

Council change won't make any difference. Zero Guarantees you'll get anything better.

Like the curvy glass.

Looks a lot better than I was expecting. The street activation looks good and, if the indicative renders are anything to go by, this should compliment the architecture nearby on the other side of Wellington St in the link.

it's been recommended for approval by the planning committee. i would imagine there will be slight alterations such as use of glass colour alteration to 'break up' some of the very scary monolithic-ness of the building ala Raine Sq.

Hopefully they can make a few token changes to appease the Design Advisory Committee and they can get it into Planning in October, along with treasury.

Nice. It gets the acc tick of approval.

Gets jarkti ticks as well, much better than expected
They better approve it!!

Bring it over onto the new page
The glass is seriously hot!!

Woohoo, found this on realestate commercial today... Nice & Wide....

396 Murray Street, Perth, WA 6000
Property No. 5843861

http://images2.au.reastatic.net/800x600/Commercial/3861/5843861,1315807784,ImageA.jpg

http://images1.au.reastatic.net/800x600/Commercial/3861/5843861,1315807713,Main.jpg

http://images1.au.reastatic.net/800x600/Commercial/3861/5843861,1315807801,ImageB.jpg

http://images2.au.reastatic.net/800x600/Commercial/3861/5843861,1315807918,ImageC.jpg


Offices
Floor Area: 2098.0 m² - 30456.0 m²

For Lease: From $735/sqm plus GST Plus Outgoings

Property Description
396 Murray Street, Perth
396 Murray Street is centrally located in the western end of the CBD. Wellington Street provides easy access north and south via the Kwinana and Mitchell Freeways, as well as Perth's western and eastern suburbs.

Free CAT buses pass the building's entrance and there are extensive public car parking facilities nearby with entrances off Murray Street.

King Street, the Murray Street and Hay Street shopping malls, numerous small bars, cafes and restaurants are all in close proximity, as is St Georges Terrace via the southern section of Shafto Lane. Perth Train station is a short two block stroll to the east.

The building is a high grade 12 level office tower with ground floor retail and large efficient floor plates which enjoy abundant natural light. End-of-trip facilities for the building's occupants include secure bicycle storage, separate male and female showers, change facilities and lockers.

5 Star NABERS Energy Base Building rating is being targeted.

4 Start Greenstar is also being targeted.

Source (http://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-offices-wa-perth-5843861)

EDIT:
If you want to print out this as a brochure. :)
http://properties.knightfrank.com.au/wp-content/plugins/Realty/display/elements/brochure.php?property_id=109433

:dance2: Now that’s what I am talking about :cool:

stunning. Hopefully it stays true to this render.

hmmm not bad! that area really needs a face lift

VERY nice :D Let's hope this one gets built without any major scale backs in quality :)

I am nervous about the outcome of the DA process. You can't really get rid of the 'monolithic' form the committee are so concerned about without significantly changing the design.

can't you just use different types/colour glass? Although I don't mind the so-called monolithic look. The committee seems to be working off a script.

I think it's a fair request to ask for the facade to be more articulated, I'd like to see that.

It's different.

Not a fan of the podium, I'd like it better if it was tall and skinny.
The actual office buildings bulk wouldn't be a problem if the podium was removed all together, then it would be an awsome glass form rising from the ground.

The podium looks like a shitty 80s hotel bistro.

this is so weird... i could have sworn i've seen these renders before somewhere...

hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

this is so weird... i could have sworn i've seen these renders before somewhere...

hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


http://images1.au.reastatic.net/800x600/Commercial/3861/5843861,1315807713,Main.jpg

S (http://images1.au.reastatic.net/800x600/Commercial/3861/5843861,1315807713,Main.jpg)


lol, I think you may be right, I remember seeing this ^^ one come up for something before... maybe a previous design for another site which had been knocked back? a previous design for the Melbourne Hotel maybe???

Or maybe you just had a dejavu or you have seen it posted for another proposal a few years ago? perhaps something taller or just less wide :)

Who are the architects? COX?

I know Greg Rowe and Associates are involved. They are more planning though I believe.

It looks really similar to stuff that's in the link renders.

DA minutes from the latest meeting:

http://cityofperth.wa.gov.au/documentdb/2595.pdf

They have given them the plot ratio bonus for some alterations to Shafto and Murray, but are still not happy with the general design and facade. Seriously, for fuck sake, just let it go. It is a good looking building.

Considering the bulkyness of the building I think their recommendation is fair enough! Once its built its too late- look at the PCC. If the developers/designers had done their job properly in the first place they would not be in the situation they now find themselves and could get a move on!

A 2yr old could see it would be rejected!

Sure a two year old could see that it would be rejected, but should it be rejected? I don't think so.

The more I look at it the less I like it.

Podium is fugly and extends all the way to the side walk. The building shape as a concept is fine it's just that the floor plates are too large for the site. Scale back the floor plates and podium and extend it's height a few floors to compensate.

The more I look at it the less I like it.

Podium is fugly and extends all the way to the side walk. The building shape as a concept is fine it's just that the floor plates are too large for the site. Scale back the floor plates and podium and extend it's height a few floors to compensate.

Yes I totally agree!!

I like the more height bit of your comment.

But as for the podium extending all the way to the sidewalk, I thought zero setbacks was a good thing?

Well a podium done well addresses the street, this reminds me of Mt Newman House/ London house Podium that extends all the way to Hay Street.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/business/business-old/new-luke-saraceni-development-in-perth-cbd/story-e6frg2qu-1226166045638

But, that’s perfect for him as his latest Murray Street project, worth more than $300 million and in cooperation with Diploma Group, was approved by the local government this week.

middle of next year ground works start :)
Kinda funny that Saraceni and diploma are together on it.

One is in all sorts of trouble (allegedly) and the other one is on the brink of bankruptcy (allegedly) = What are the chances of this thing going ahead??

<steps up on soap box>

Ugh. Another boring glass box. :bash:

Why don't architects dream up big ideas for Perth? If we're in a mining boom then surely we have a bit more money to come up with something a more exciting and unique?

It's just all very frustrating.

Rant over. :cheers:

Oh dear. I didn't realise this was Saracini. I'm wary at his funding comments - hopefully he can get it off the ground.

well i wouldnt discount it entirely, his pride has been well and truly hurt and im sure part of him wants to show he's still in the game. on the other hand he could just be doing all the groundwork and looking to sell a site with plans approved right when there is a shortage looming

either way though the man is brilliant at what he does so there's always going to be a chance

I want him back in the game, we need guys like him.

I find it hard to believe this was knocked back...

what site was this proposed for- i think its a great design!!! although a little osi park

UP-DATE?

I recently caught sight of a 'SOLD' sign on the Wellington St side of this site. Any news on if and when this project is going ahead?
Does Saracini really still have the financial muscle?

Did anyone pick up the story that it was basically CBA's takeover of BankWest that triggered Saracini's financing problems; and that he'd never had those issues before?

have any companies signed leases to take over bankwest tower when they vacate for raine sq?

also, may holman centre is getting a refurb... fairlanes has a little bit...

what about all tha office space that's freed up when bhp move in to their tower???

what's happening with otb? any announcement soon?

ozaway, stop introducing your posts with a bold, all-caps title.

it's unnecessary and makes you look really, really crazy and weird and shouty and old.

REPLY

I agree.

Ozway = Rod Slater!

The wellington st side is unrelated to this.

LOL this will be knocked back. Too big too much shadow too good too much glass too little white too many angles........ pick your reason.

That pretty well sums up planning in Perth!

Ozway = Rod Slater!

Girls, girls - stop this. It's not a good look.

The wellington st side is unrelated to this.

And yet the original proposal specifically hypes planned frontages on Murray and Wellington Streets - as well as an up-grade of Shafto Lane. They got the height bonus (15 stories?) because of the extensive footprint.

The proposal didn't promote frontages to Wellington. It might have promoted links via Shafto. They are two separate sites.

Had not seen some of these before..

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=265550583473457&set=a.265550276806821.81023.154158544612662&type=3#!/media/set/?set=a.265550276806821.81023.154158544612662&type=3

Luv it, except the roof. I didn't realise how much the bent glass sticks out. I want this one to get up. Cheers for the link.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/307717_265550653473450_154158544612662_1038686_5377460_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/296757_265550383473477_154158544612662_1038678_4725354_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/306463_265550446806804_154158544612662_1038681_5706540_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/314842_265550583473457_154158544612662_1038684_6836339_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/317094_265550713473444_154158544612662_1038687_7132665_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/313431_265550513473464_154158544612662_1038682_1582393_n.jpg
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=265550583473457&set=a.265550276806821.81023.154158544612662&type=3#!/media/set/?set=a.265550276806821.81023.154158544612662&type=3

i thought there was an issue with this design? this has been floating around for sometime?

I'm gonna go with the "this has zero chance of NOT being watered down to a bland glass box" odds. The shed on the roof lets this design down.

Nup. Passed council last year. Ready to build.

ready to build... that's tha worrying part of this development? :p

Yeah well it is Diploma and Saracini so not the most stable. Hopefully they get precommitment. They were hoping to start in May I believe.

I hope this turd of a building never gets off the ground. I don't think i've ever seen a podium as poorly resolved as this one.

it's a 2-level podium... what more could you expect from it? there's no reason why tha podium areas have to be used by tha public...

i don't have a problem with it in general, provided tha glazing isn't any shade of blue... :p

If it's not meant to by the public, why are there 80 people standing on the top of it in the renders? What is that space even meant to be?

If old Lenny Buckeridge thought the arena looked like a squashed beer can, wait until he sees this one.

Unfortunately, that's what the planning scheme demands. I like this building, but would prefer to see the podium gone. 0 setbacks ftw.

"Shafto Lane: Perth's most luxurious after-dark secret drunken piss corner."

So this will consume the Wilsons car park and Hobby shop? What about the other side of Shafto lane whith the big ugly Telstra fence?

It is a pretty shit podium -- where's the interaction with the street? It's just glass. Boring.

The Shafto Frontage has been changed since those renders. The Murray Frontage is retail I believe so should be alright.

Considering there's nothing there it's interesting nothing has started. I guess they could b waiting for suitable per commitment though???

Yep they are waiting for pre-committment. Considering how much we keep hearing about the demand for A-Grade office space I am a little surprised that projects like this, Melbourne Hotel etc haven't attracted tenants.

^^^^ exactly, we hear a lot of conflicting opinions/stories etc re the economy so do you think the demand story could b a bit of hype to try n stimulate interest etc???

The demand is largely for office space NOW not in 2-3 years time, thats one of the problems.

Normally in this situation the buildings would just get built, assuming someone will occupy them, but you need the pre-commitment to get funding atm.

Unfortunately, that's what the planning scheme demands. I like this building, but would prefer to see the podium gone. 0 setbacks ftw.

I'd really like to see a Wellington Street aspect of this project; given that it will rise within the overall context of The Link development. I've gone to the i2C website, but can't find more on this project.

This building doesn't have a Wellington Street Frontage. The Wilsons Carparks on Wellington and Murray Streets are completely different sites, they just share a boundary.

The demand is largely for office space NOW not in 2-3 years time, thats one of the problems.

Well if the demand really is there NOW, one would think that there would be tenants lurking around. If they can't get this up now then i can't see how they will in 3 years time when all the demand has been absorbed and vacancy rates slowly creep up

Well if the demand really is there NOW, one would think that there would be tenants lurking around. If they can't get this up now then i can't see how they will in 3 years time when all the demand has been absorbed and vacancy rates slowly creep up

What I mean is that office space is needed immediately not in 3 years time. They want to sign leases and move into office space tomorrow. The demand is that strong in the city.

i.e it takes 3 years to build the thing.

Almost zero chance of this getting build Ryan. In spite of that demand.

I wonder how hard it will be to lease all the space in BankWest Tower once the bank moves to Raine...

I wonder how hard it will be to lease all the space in BankWest Tower once the bank moves to Raine...

Well it won't attract any major companies with such small floor plates but they won't struggle to find tenants.

This building doesn't have a Wellington Street Frontage. The Wilsons Carparks on Wellington and Murray Streets are completely different sites, they just share a boundary.

It may not have a frontage - but it will have an aspect.
There are two interesting early 20th century buildings on Wellington St; including an ancient cinema. Keen to see what happens to these.

Well it won't attract any major companies with such small floor plates but they won't struggle to find tenants.

You'd be surprised. The big miners have a big apatite for A-grade space.

For example, BHP is holding onto all but one of its leases on St Georges Terrace when it moves into City Square. And has committed to more space in Central Park. Tiny floor plates in the latter.

What exactly do all these office workers DO anyway?
And more to the point, given how many people BHP need, why didn't they just make their shiny new headquarters large enough to house everyone so they wouldn't need offices elsewhere?

^^^^ Besides plot ratio whats the height limit of the CBD. Adelaide has reviewed their City height limits and their documents state for alot of their zones 'airport height' what is ours????

300m above sea level, due to the airport

I think 300m is just a blanket CASA limit on all cities, but you could get an exemption I'm sure. Isn't it why Eureka tower is only 300m though?

297m.

I think Eureka Tower could of gone higher if they wanted but didn't choose to.

You'd be surprised. The big miners have a big apatite for A-grade space.

For example, BHP is holding onto all but one of its leases on St Georges Terrace when it moves into City Square. And has committed to more space in Central Park. Tiny floor plates in the latter.

No i wont. Demand is just a fraction of the story.

Not a chance in hell this project will get the requied finance in current conditions and the big companies needed to get this off the ground will be looking elsewhere because of the developers unfortunate track record (around banks).

It's a shame about the Banks complete lack of knowledge of the West Australian market, it's preventing them from raising the necisarry funds to support the 300,00sqm of potential new commercial space that is currently needed in our CBD/ West Perth in the next 3 years.

Bankwest don't really give a shit about the West when it comes down to it.

Some years ago I was speaking to one of the head honchos and despite all the pseudo patriotic rubbish they spruik here about being a WA bank etc, he said that their primary focus was over east. In the scheme of things perth isn't even that much on the radar.

I think 300m is just a blanket CASA limit on all cities, but you could get an exemption I'm sure. Isn't it why Eureka tower is only 300m though?

So this an Australian standard? Y is that when international cities build so much higher?

Tall poppy syndrome.

It's just for their peace of mind I guess -- It's not to say you cant go over 300m, you can, look at Q1, but you need to get permission from CASA

...

Bankwest don't really give a shit about the West when it comes down to it.

Some years ago I was speaking to one of the head honchos and despite all the pseudo patriotic rubbish they spruik here about being a WA bank etc, he said that their primary focus was over east. In the scheme of things perth isn't even that much on the radar.

There's more ATM's in Syd/Mel than Perth (in every 7/11). Their expansion over east though was basically halted when CBA took over.

^^^^ Well realy if another bank takes you over, things like this are should obviously b expected, its inevitable- I would have thought???

Bankwest hasn't been owned in WA, even Australia for quite a while. It was the ill fated HBOS that owned it before selling it to CBA. Why would they give a fuck about WA??

Mind you quite a few East coast banks have made a fair push this way.

There are big changes happening in.banking here. I was reading about how HSBC want to hugely grow their retail banking presence in the country too. Big branch expansion plans.

Not to mention Japanese banks who want to push in here. I get the feeling we might get some seriously competitive banking (hopefully).

I can't see this on realcommercial.com.au anymore. So either they've leased the whole thing (seems unlikely) or finance has fallen through (likely). Hopefully it hasn't fallen through though, but neither Diploma or Saraceni seem to be in the best of positions.

No pre commitement, no Finance.

the site is for sale i think ...

That was a waste of time then

And nothing of value was lost.

What makes you happy, Urbicus? You're down on every development proposal. All good, just curious.

If they have thrown the towel in on this one, I don't think it is much of a loss. Not really the most innovative design.

The design of this building was a little uninspiring, no big loss from the aesthetic POV. However this comment concerns me more:

No pre commitement, no Finance.

Really? If this is the case then NOTHING will get up on this site. From a commercial sense this office had a lot going for it surely?!

The design of this building was a little uninspiring, no big loss from the aesthetic POV. However this comment concerns me more:

Really? If this is the case then NOTHING will get up on this site. From a commercial sense this office had a lot going for it surely?!

This site? more like Perth in general, The Melbourne site will remain vacant for years. I know a real estate consulatant that works for Grant Samuel, doesn't give me details of his works but he laments the general situation.

The fact remains that a development might have good to strong long term viability, but the banks require pre-commitment. So we will see smaller and medium sized firms forced from the CBD again, until we see a Chevron going after 30,000sqm or more, or lending conditions change.

High construction costs, poor planning regulations from councils and a lack of finance is killing development in this city. :ohno: It's worse for Residential apartment developments.

What exactly do all these office workers DO anyway?
And more to the point, given how many people BHP need, why didn't they just make their shiny new headquarters large enough to house everyone so they wouldn't need offices elsewhere?

Probably because they were hedging their bets at the time they had to make a call on taking a lease.

Probably because they were hedging their bets at the time they had to make a call on taking a lease.

Sub-leasing gives them options and contractors not directly employed by BHP will remain out of C2/ BFP.

Had some good qualities but glad this fell through.

There is a DA worth $130 000 000 today for 374-376 Murray, which is technically just part of this site. Not sure if they are building or selling.

A sale wouldn't appear as a DA would it?

This one has open ended parentheses too!

What is this madness!!

A sale wouldn't appear as a DA would it?

I would think not.

open ended parentheses???

^^
The title of the thread has an open parenthesis - [15lv

To be pedantic, it's a BRACKET not a parenthesis.

[ Good point.

There is a DA worth $130 000 000 today for 374-376 Murray, which is technically just part of this site. Not sure if they are building or selling.

I'm not sure what you are on about. CoP gave the DA in October-ish 2011. The developer can't get pre-commitment so they can't get funding. If they can't get funding then they're not building. If they're not building then they're selling, one way or another.

374-376 is not "technically" part of the site, it is one of the lots encompassed in the DA application. $130 mill would build the building they proposed, it wouldn't be the end value.

As for the parenthesis/bracket thing, you guys have way too much time on your hands.

A. It is a new DA.
B. It was noteworthy because it only listed that lot on the DA, not the entire site.
C. I never said that would be the end value.

As for the parenthesis/bracket thing, you guys have way too much time on your hands.

OFF TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, really. As totally gripping as this conversation is, it is totally irrelevant to this thread: Stay OT.
Any chance of us staying on topic at all?
Any chance of staying on-topic?
I'm surprised no-one's come out with a "get the f**k back on topic".

lol a grand total of 36 post most of which telling people to stay on topic.

Serious lurker is serious.

The fact remains that a development might have good to strong long term viability, but the banks require pre-commitment. So we will see smaller and medium sized firms forced from the CBD again, until we see a Chevron going after 30,000sqm or more, or lending conditions change.

Yet more BS from the greedy banks.

lol Urbicus.

Anyway, how do most people prepare eggs?

Boiled? Scrambled? Poached? I've been considering omlettes: What would you advise in this important egg-related arena?

Yet more BS from the greedy banks.

agreed

in a time of a lot of financial turmoil, developers going broke, mining companies letting staff go etc i have no idea why they are insisting on pre-commitments before funding expensive commercial developments

i understand that they have to behave responsibly and in their best interests but this greediness is outrageous

^^

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8688/theword.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/theword.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

lol Urbicus.

Anyway, how do most people prepare eggs?

Boiled? Scrambled? Poached? I've been considering omlettes: What would you advise in this important egg-related arena?

scrambled (slightly creamy), laid on top of spam and choice of bread, finished off with dabs of truffle oil and basil...

aaannnnddd another DA.

10/09/2012
374-376 Murray Street
PERTH WA 6000
2 Tower Commercial and
Residential Mixed Use
Development
$130,000,000
DAPDA

See what I'm on about now, cucinando?

Get back on topic. Oh, wait....

So it is definitely a new proposal then.

Will be interesting to see what it looks like.

See what I'm on about now, cucinando?

Yep, I do. Now.

Thanks for that.

So it is definitely a new proposal then.

Will be interesting to see what it looks like.

Exciting.

We will go from slightly different if a little boxy, all the way to straight out bland.

oooh residential... interesting

130 mill is pretty decent for resi/mixed use. Is it totally naive of me to hope for something good?

Yep.

thought as much...

aaannnnddd another DA.

10/09/2012
374-376 Murray Street
PERTH WA 6000
2 Tower Commercial and
Residential Mixed Use
Development
$130,000,000
DAPDA

See what I'm on about now, cucinando?

This is actually for the eastern most portion of the site, going off the address but we shall see.

I am so confused right now. It seems there is two proposals for the same site.

http://perth.wa.gov.au/documentdb/3247.pdf

Proposal 1 is by a Diploma joint venture and is designed by Scanlan architects. 14 storey office, 32 storey, 286 apartment residential tower.

Proposal 2 is by a Grocon JV and designed by Denton Corker Marshall. 15lv office building with verticle blades. Naturally, the DAC has asked them to water down the blades.

Without seeing the details, theres no doubt that the second proposal will look better than the first, but I'm hoping the first one wins due to the inclusion of a large resi building by Perth standards. It will be 'affordable' too as it is mostly studios and 1 bedders.

That's strange.

Nice to see Grocon and Diploma relationship bearing fruit, whatever shape it takes. CFMEU love's them both.

Grocon and Diploma aren't working together. They are proposing seperate developments for the same site. Only one will get up.

moved

I am so confused right now. It seems there is two proposals for the same site.

http://perth.wa.gov.au/documentdb/3247.pdf

Proposal 1 is by a Diploma joint venture and is designed by Scanlan architects. 14 storey office, 32 storey, 286 apartment residential tower.

Proposal 2 is by a Grocon JV and designed by Denton Corker Marshall. 15lv office building with verticle blades. Naturally, the DAC has asked them to water down the blades.

Without seeing the details, theres no doubt that the second proposal will look better than the first, but I'm hoping the first one wins due to the inclusion of a large resi building by Perth standards. It will be 'affordable' too as it is mostly studios and 1 bedders.

I agree it would be great to see a resi tower of this size go up. Good ole DAC express their concern regarding the height of a 32 storey building on the site, LOL, it would probably only be a little taller than EQUUS & Raine &not much taller than Telstra Hello!!!!! Pathetic.

I'm in favour of the Diploma JV, provides a much needed bicycle parking station, residents, hopefully street activity and increased commercial office space.

They have also applied for a rooftop cinema space and residents lounge area, this is a nice addition for (hopefully) well priced single bed apartments.

Two slender towers will help add diversity and reduce shadowing.

Fingers crossed they can get finance and the market responds favourably to their product, it would be a great place to live with the link happening soon. I suspect it might be completed around the same time as EQ earth works.

Grocon and Diploma aren't working together. They are proposing seperate developments for the same site. Only one will get up.

I heard that Diploma and Grocon where in the process of getting into bed with each other around about sixth months ago.

It would be great to have anything of decent size on this site.

The resi would be my preferred option although I don't trust Diploma. I think this end of the city is the best place for more affordable apartments.

just imagine a taller Zenith here... or Even Rise
blah

just imagine a taller Zenith here... or Even Rise
blah

+1

Good in theory, but the execution will be utterly shit.

http://imageshack.us/a/img90/9672/396murray3.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img195/2639/396murray2.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img32/6930/396murray1.jpg

Not bad.

waaaiitt, let me see if I can guess which is the grocon one... is that before or after "watering down" the blades??

dac will have a field day with both of these.

hey, at least someone at scanlan has a realistic idea of how many people are on the street around there...

That last render would be great. If the DAC were worried about the height limit they seriously need to get over it. What happened to the new height limit and bonus for residential review or what ever it was?

http://imageshack.us/a/img90/9672/396murray3.jpg


http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/254/517/a70.gif

Is this a render of a fire drill? What's with the mob of people flooding the streets?

Diploma's proposal plz.

Is this a render of a fire drill?

lol. can I use that plz?

tha gods will bless us with tha shit one no doubt...

thanks in advance to those involved.

Doesn't look too bad, and at least the style differs a touch from the norm. Is that hotel with the wavey facade going up next door to this?

http://imageshack.us/a/img90/9672/396murray3.jpg
[/IMG]

Now I've never been a fan of Denton Corker Marshall, but this is a new low for them.

Lets hope the diploma one gets up (never thought I'd say that).

What the actual fuck. Both developments are asking for a plot ratio bonus of 20%. The DAC supports 20% bonus for the office tower, but only 10% for the mixed use development.

The office tower:
1. Provides a 4.2m wide sheltered pedestrian link between Murray and Wellington.
2. Provides a bicycle parking facility for 120 bikes and end of trip facilities and a small bike repair workshop.

The mixed use development:
1. Provides a 2.45m wide pedestrian link between Murray and Wellington.
2. Construction of a bicycle parking facility for 200 bikes and end of trip facilities and a small bike repair workshop.

So the differences are that the office development provides a wider pedestrian link and the mixed use development provides for more bicycle parking facilities. Yet the office development gets double the plot ratio bonus even though its a terribly boring design.

Cant believe im saying this, but Diploma's design is so much better
the apartment section could be better, but much better than Grocons office

Oh, and a big thanks and welcome to WA Holiday Guide for finding the renders.

What the actual fuck. Both developments are asking for a plot ratio bonus of 20%. The DAC supports 20% bonus for the office tower, but only 10% for the mixed use development.

The office tower:
1. Provides a 4.2m wide sheltered pedestrian link between Murray and Wellington.
2. Provides a bicycle parking facility for 120 bikes and end of trip facilities and a small bike repair workshop.

The mixed use development:
1. Provides a 2.45m wide pedestrian link between Murray and Wellington.
2. Construction of a bicycle parking facility for 200 bikes and end of trip facilities and a small bike repair workshop.

So the differences are that the office development provides a wider pedestrian link and the mixed use development provides for more bicycle parking facilities. Yet the office development gets double the plot ratio bonus even though its a terribly boring design.

I totally agree jackso its absurd! Its like they'll do anything even approve crap just to keep height limit down and to justify their phobia of height they use pathetic statments like 'going against the fine grain of the street.'

Someone want to tell me why CoP hates height or interesting buildings anyway? Its not like there is a "keep Perth low" lobby group fighting to ban tall buildings like there is for Cottesloe (I think the only real example I know of where people are complaining about development in the CoP is the EQ project)

You got to think though that there is soooooooooooooo many sites available for development in Perth that perhaps they're trying to keep height lowish to promote the development of more sites. This is a good thing really because it adds density and dimension to the city rather than just a few random talls with shit everywhere else.

We're just not New York, have to face facts.

Oh, and a big thanks and welcome to WA Holiday Guide for finding the renders.

Thanks Urbicus. All it took was a call to the CoP. :)

I cant see the renders.. unless there are actually small red squares with X's in them...

:(

Cant believe im saying this, but Diploma's design is so much better
the apartment section could be better, but much better than Grocons office

with you on both counts - the not believing and the preferring. never say never, huh?

plus diploma's is more likely to fly because it will be less dependent on office pre-commitment (my assumption being that it's easier to pre-sell apartments than to pre-lease offices atm)

however while rumours keep flying about diploma's financial health it's hard to see how they're going to muster the firepower to get this up. debt can only get you so far - where's the equity coming from?

uh, when did grocon come to perth? haven't they got enough shxt on their plate elsewhere?

This, and some other possible projects in the pipe line seem to be Grocons entry strategy.

This, and some other possible projects in the pipe line seem to be Grocons entry strategy.

awww, you don't get away with that - give! what other "possible projects in the pipeline"???

That Grocon proposal is shithouse. :ohno:

awww, you don't get away with that - give! what other "possible projects in the pipeline"???

I think they've tendered for a couple of projects, pretty sure they did a JV tender for someone for PCL..?

Thanks Urbicus. All it took was a call to the CoP. :)

Scraperface, is that you?

Scraperface, is that you?

Yep, sure is buddy. However this time around I'm not here to chat or offer opinion for the most part, only post photographs, new info or correct people, hence the new profile.

From the car park behind the site on Wellington Street last night:

http://imageshack.us/a/img546/2925/img4012r.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img845/6733/img4009j.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img805/8913/img4008l.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img209/8888/img4007k.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img204/9467/img4005j.jpg

Yep, sure is buddy. However this time around I'm not here to chat or offer opinion for the most part, only post photographs, new info or correct people, hence the new profile.


BOOOOOOORING*

*j/k welcome back

Welcome back. Looking forward to your updates.

Yep, sure is buddy. However this time around I'm not here to chat or offer opinion for the most part, only post photographs, new info or correct people, hence the new profile.

From the car park behind the site on Wellington Street last night:

http://imageshack.us/a/img546/2925/img4012r.jpg

Should throw a few digital electronic adverts on the west and east walls of the Telstra Exchange. Make some use of that empty space.

The following building below will replace the red brick building directly in front view of my photo.

They could put their own on the north of Telstra to match and really bling up Wellington Street!

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4522/screenshot20120816at529.png

I don't begrudge the OAKS - just wish we could have rescued and revitalise the old cinema building that the OAKS will replace.

http://imageshack.us/a/img90/9672/396murray3.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img195/2639/396murray2.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img32/6930/396murray1.jpg

wow that first one looks like its been done by a tafe student submitting their first assignment!!

#2 at least has some interesting visual -ness...

why are there two designs in with council for this site?

DAP agenda finally up for these two developments.

http://daps.planning.wa.gov.au/5892.asp

Man, I'm confused. So these are two proposals for the same site, and they've given both of them approval?

If they don't opt for this one I'm going to chain myself to the bulldozers:

It's resoundingly mediocre by national/international architectural standards but would probably be the best residential development in the CBD, the mixed used office component makes it even better. I have no problems with mediocrity when its on unimportant sites like this - definitely a positive step for Perth.

http://i.imgur.com/6CEG2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/g2jlU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iO4Cv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4yg6Y.jpg

Here are the renders for Option 2. Winner:

<EDIT> ha Urbicus beat me to it. Son of a...

Here are the renders for Option 2. Winner:

<EDIT> ha Urbicus beat me to it. Son of a...

oPwrodxghrw

Why do I keep thinking Equis when looking at this.

Man, I'm confused. So these are two proposals for the same site, and they've given both of them approval?

Correct. It will be up to the property owner to award the development.

Why do I keep thinking Equis when looking at this.

The set-backs and overuse of greenery?

Correct. It will be up to the property owner to award the development.

Oh. Guess we're fucked then.

Well it sounds like the office is more likely to go ahead.

I would much rather see the mixed-use, but it is backed by Diploma and Saraceni which gives us reason to doubt..

I can confirm that the apartment proposal has been selected as the preferred development option.

An Expressions Of Interest campaign is being launched in a few weeks from now.

Wow. Hope it gets up.

Fantastic! Was told the Grocon plan was almost a certainty though.

Need to get some heights for this.

Office building: 14 levels, 45.85m
Apartment building: 32 levels: 94.45m

The plans look great, the lobby has been moved off street to the plaza between the buildings.

Dang, misses out on being Perth's tallest apartment building by 3.55 metres. Still, great for bulking up the CBD.

Dilaz, you have to change the thread title now. Don't forget to leave out the last parenthesis.

Office building: 14 levels, 45.85m
Apartment building: 32 levels: 94.45m

The plans look great, the lobby has been moved off street to the plaza between the buildings.

Fantastic news, the pessimist in me was expecting that other shitbox to go up. Also good to hear they've relocated the lobby, I was disappointed to see they deleted the green wall for that side of the office building but this is a better outcome.

Great news!

All the design changes are detailed in the DAP link I posted including renders and floor plans. Urbicus, you'll be pleased to know they dropped the green wall.

I'm not going to get too excited just yet. This is Diploma and Saraceni we are working with. It must be a very recent decision too because the Grocon proposal is still going before the DAP on 30th Nov.

The title of the thread should also read 374-396 Murray Street

Dang, misses out on being Perth's tallest apartment building by 3.55 metres. Still, great for bulking up the CBD.

Dilaz, you have to change the thread title now. Don't forget to leave out the last parenthesis.

Don't worry tallest will be changing in the near future anyway :bowtie:

Oh you did not just do that... :)

Next year we should see a DA for Waterbank. Tallest is 40st/~130m.

Just found this, but it appears to be old news?

http://www.oneperth.com.au/2012/11/16/scraper-wars/

Scraper wars

Posted on 16 November 2012

CHRIS THOMSON

EXCLUSIVE: Australia’s skyscraper king and a Perth architecture firm are squaring off in a battle that will determine who gets to build a high rise development at the west end of Murray Street.

Melbourne company Grocon is famous in Victoria for having built Australia’s second, third, fourth and fifth highest skyscrapers. Grocon is reeling from a drawn-out stoush in Melbourne with the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union which in August blockaded several of the firm’s building sites.

But that hasn’t deterred the company from making a foray into the Perth property market with plans for a 15-level office block at 378-396 Murray Street.

Aside from its recent battles with the militant CFMEU, Grocon is best known for its Eureka Tower (297-metres and the second tallest building in Australia), 120 Collins Street (265-metres and third tallest), 101 Collins Street (260-metres and fourth tallest), and Rialto Towers (251-metres iand fifth tallest).

The company’s former boss, Bruno Grollo, once planned to build the world’s tallest building, Grollo Tower, in Melbourne’s Docklands precinct – but his blueprints were scrapped in 2001.

The 4927sqm Murray Street site is currently occupied by a bitumen Wilson car park and two small commercial buildings. Grocon’s planned tower has been designed by eminent Victorian architects Denton Corker Marshall which have worked on projects in 37 nations.

But Grocon’s ambitions may be thwarted by Perth architecture firm Lawrence Scanlan & Associates which has applied to build two towers on the very same Murray Street site.

Ironically for the nation’s skyscraper king, the Grocon plans are dwarfed by the local Lawrence Scanlan & Associates ones. The taller of the local outfit’s two towers would be a 32-floor residential building, and the smaller a 14-level office block.

The parcel of land is owned by two companies – Farcrest Holdings Pty Ltd, and Framington Nominees Pty Ltd. The City of Perth has recommended that both applications be approved when a state development assessment panel deliberates on Tuesday night.

It is curious, but not unheard of, for multiple development applications to be lodged and approved for a single site simultaneously. If approved, either building may be erected or wither on the drawing board. Alternatively, the approved plans may be used by the site owner to up the price of the car park before a sage land sale.

lol exclusive.

Edit. Yep. lol.