As a northerner, I recognize and appreciate the way the way that the issue of race has changed dramatically in the South since the civil rights movement. Ironically, in so many ways, IMHO, you are ahead of the North in this area.

I've recently seen some programs about the huge wave of hispanic immigration (legal and illegal) that is transforming many areas of the South (including the rural South). The issues center on the clash of cultures, whether Spanish will eventually be equal to English, crowding of many families into one house, taxes, so many others. Many native southerners are torn between the cheap labor they have acquired and the affect of a different culture in their midst. In many respects, not all that different from what other immigrant groups faced when they came to the US.

What I don't know or understand is this:

of course all groups of people are composed of individuals who think the way they do as individuals. but, that said, how do you see the majority of thinking on the part of the black community as to Hispanic immigration to the South?

Do most African Americans have sympathy for a group that struggled like their own with the issues of poverty and bigotry? Or is their thinking more akin with the concerns of many white Southerners on issues such as culture, language, jobs, taxation, etc.?

As I've said, I think the US has learned a lot from the South on healing racial wounds and working towards a truly inclussive America. I just wonder where most blacks in the South view this issue.

African-Americans in the south tend to view hispanics differently than whites; at least in my experiences. We respect them for their struggles, because we often share them. In my experience african-americans also respect hispanic culture and the influences that it can have. It will be interesting to see how the older white americans deal with no longer being the majority in this country in a few generations.

African-Americans in the south tend to view hispanics differently than whites; at least in my experiences. We respect them for their struggles, because we often share them. In my experience african-americans also respect hispanic culture and the influences that it can have. It will be interesting to see how the older white americans deal with no longer being the majority in this country in a few generations.

thanks for the response, NCTH. but as a group whose roots in the US go so far back, how do African Americans respond to the whole English/Spanish/bilingual issues and the other presures of change due to immigration? In a similiar way to the white community or vastly different?

I agree with you about white America. We will all be better off when the US becomes a "no majority race" country. I'm also was glad to see you state your observations as "older white americans". The younger generations think differently. I taught school for many years and my students (largely white) just could not understand why there was ever an issue of race, and always recognized the inequities during the times of slavery, Jim Crow, and the civil rights movement. Sometimes we don't realize how stunningly radical the changes in the 50's and 60's were in how we think about race (which, I sincerely hope, we will not take a big step backwards on the issue with people from the Middle East today).

sometimes I think african-americans take the 'american or nothing' point of view....meaning that although we respect hispanics for their struggles we also become territorial in a sense; just like white americans. Hispanics and blacks tend to group together I think because of cultural similarities.
And although I said older white americans; there are still a significant amount of younger people in this country too with issues about race (black and white) that stem from parental influence probably.
Think about it...it's only been 35 years since the end of segregation. So anybody over 55 (a very very large part of the population) spent their formative years looking down on any non-white citizen....and old habits definitely die hard.

Let's make one thing clear, African-Ams are no stranger to resenting Hispanics in the South, namely those GA and NC. They welcome Hispanics b/c it benefits them by taking some attention away off them, but political power is getting taken away too. This makes it a love-hate relationship.

Let's make one thing clear, African-Ams are no stranger to resenting Hispanics in the South, namely GA and NC. They welcome Hispanics b/c it benefits them by taking some attention away but political power is getting taken away, too, which makes it a love-hate relationship.

I'm white, so I can't presume to speak for African-Americans, but certainly I've read things which indicate there are political tensions between hispanics and blacks. Additionally, black/hispanic problems have been noted in terms of affirmative action programs for hispanics since something like 65% of hispanics identify themselves as white, yet are entitled to some degree of affirmative action programs.

^ Yeah, the majority of Hispanics identify as "white" but the majority of Hispanics are not in the same economic boat as "whites". Rather, they're more equal to African-Ams and Native Ams. Let's not forget about history neither. Most Hispanics are descendents of Native Ams. Affirmative Action is a form of reparation to Hispanics, and Natives Ams, for the effects of colonialism on them. AFA applies to them b/c of their heritage not their genes. Again, just b/c their genes are majority "white" doesn't mean their jeans carry around wallets filled with the same amount of cash as "whites". So, if certain African-Ams are upset b/c they think Hispanics are wrongfully receiving AFA benefits, they are wrongfully upset.

Census 2000 - Income and Education by Race
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/abaddonn/us-2000-census.jpg

^ Yeah, the majority of Hispanics identify as "white" but the majority of Hispanics are not in the same economic boat as "whites". Rather, they're more equal to African-Ams and Native Ams. Let's not forget about history neither. Most Hispanics are descendents of Native Ams. Affirmative Action is a form of reparation to Hispanics, and Natives Ams, for the effects of colonialism on them. AFA applies to them b/c of their heritage not their genes. Again, just b/c their genes are majority "white" doesn't mean their jeans carry around wallets filled with the same amount of cash as "whites". So, if certain African-Ams are upset b/c they think Hispanics are wrongfully receiving AFA benefits, they are wrongfully upset.

Census 2000 - Income and Education by Race
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/abaddonn/us-2000-census.jpg


and asians rule. go us.

The hispanic population is growing here in arkansas pretty fast too. In fact, there's supposed to be some hispanic convention held here (usually held in states like TX or NC) because of the large influx of hispanics here. Spanish church services, resturaunts, stores, radio stations, etc. are budding up here.

Race issues between black and white here in the South are a bit different than in the North. Jim Crow laws mainly sought to segregate whites from minorities in public places and businesses, by in large, it did not tell them where to live. Another thing to take into consideration is the common history and culture Southern blacks and Southern whites share. One thing that's never brought up in discussion about race is the stereotypes associated with the African American community that many whites hold, and a lot of those issues relate to culture. The culture between whites and blacks in the South is much more integrated than in the North. When blacks migrated North after the Civil War and during the two World Wars, many brought elements of their Southern culture with them that are not at all unfamiliar to Southern whites.

One thing you have to understand about the South is that there are many contradictions with race relations. A big reason the economic disparity between blacks and whites in the South is not what it is in the North is the times in which both regions prospered economically. The South has risen economically largely since the 1960's and 1970's, and with this rise, both white AND black Southerners have been brought up economically at the same time, so there is less economic class segregation that corelates to race down here.

Racial tensions in the South have been historically about skin color more than culture. Where such ingrained mentalities have largely disappeared in the South, you'll find whites and blacks sitting together in the same restaurants, going to the same grocery stores, driving the same cars, living in the same shitty suburban housing, etc, etc, etc. Now that a lot of such tension is gone (not all of it, there's still a significant amount left), the common Southern culture is doing what it's supposed to do, cross racial lines. This is exactly what most segregationists feared.

I know I put that rant together as I was sorting out the thoughts in my head in a linear fashion, but I think you get my point. De facto segregation was much more common in the North. Not so in the South, so you had de jure segregation rear its ugly head as a result of fear from the elite white community here in the South.

I think even though the south, historically, has had the more violent history when it comes to racial incidents, but the north was also very segregated when it came to housing and stuff like that, especially after blacks from the south began to flock to the north. But yeah i see what you're saying edsg.

One thing you have to understand about the South is that there are many contradictions with race relations. A big reason the economic disparity between blacks and whites in the South is not what it is in the North is the times in which both regions prospered economically. The South has risen economically largely since the 1960's and 1970's, and with this rise, both white AND black Southerners have been brought up economically at the same time, so there is less economic class segregation that corelates to race down here.
Amen to that. "Whites" and "blacks" in the South are rising together. Not so much class tension there. I'd venture to say this noveau riche has more animosity towards old money than each other racially.

Rising together? Yeah, maybe against the Mexicans. Those guys waste precious Maurice sauce on Donkeys, for chrissake! They don't even use an enema before the festivities. Feliz mole day, *****.

don_king, don't you have better things to do like promoting boxing matches?

Think about it...it's only been 35 years since the end of segregation. So anybody over 55 (a very very large part of the population) spent their formative years looking down on any non-white citizen....and old habits definitely die hard.

of course, you are right. but think about how remarkable the turn around has been, considering those abhorant, yet major, parts of US history: slavery, Jim Crow era, white backlash during civil rights movement.

considering the direction that other "social" issues have gone in the US, as of late, I'd have to say that the racial issues are one of the few areas of improvement.

look. this nation today values rich over poor like no time in history. we care little about the environment. we view middle easterners and Islam with suspicion or scorn. we look at education as an after thought. i'd have to say that race relations are one of the few areas that are looking up.

Race issues between black and white here in the South are a bit different than in the North. Jim Crow laws mainly sought to segregate whites from minorities in public places and businesses, by in large, it did not tell them where to live. Another thing to take into consideration is the common history and culture Southern blacks and Southern whites share. One thing that's never brought up in discussion about race is the stereotypes associated with the African American community that many whites hold, and a lot of those issues relate to culture. The culture between whites and blacks in the South is much more integrated than in the North. When blacks migrated North after the Civil War and during the two World Wars, many brought elements of their Southern culture with them that are not at all unfamiliar to Southern whites.

One thing you have to understand about the South is that there are many contradictions with race relations. A big reason the economic disparity between blacks and whites in the South is not what it is in the North is the times in which both regions prospered economically. The South has risen economically largely since the 1960's and 1970's, and with this rise, both white AND black Southerners have been brought up economically at the same time, so there is less economic class segregation that corelates to race down here.

Racial tensions in the South have been historically about skin color more than culture. Where such ingrained mentalities have largely disappeared in the South, you'll find whites and blacks sitting together in the same restaurants, going to the same grocery stores, driving the same cars, living in the same shitty suburban housing, etc, etc, etc. Now that a lot of such tension is gone (not all of it, there's still a significant amount left), the common Southern culture is doing what it's supposed to do, cross racial lines. This is exactly what most segregationists feared.

I know I put that rant together as I was sorting out the thoughts in my head in a linear fashion, but I think you get my point. De facto segregation was much more common in the North. Not so in the South, so you had de jure segregation rear its ugly head as a result of fear from the elite white community here in the South.

Point well taken. Do you remember the old line about the north and south?

The north didn't mind how big blacks got, as long as they didn't get close.

The south didn't mind how close blacks got, as long as they didn't get big.

Part of the success the South has over the North even to this day is that blacks and white were and are in much closer proximity to each other. That breaks down racial barriers.

look. this nation today values rich over poor like no time in history. we care little about the environment. we view middle easterners and Islam with suspicion or scorn. we look at education as an after thought. i'd have to say that race relations are one of the few areas that are looking up.

We're even better than that. We are the most tolerant people on earth. We pay the most for education than other country (we just don't spend wisely). If the chango-nigs would just quit bitching about how shitty they have made their own lives, we would all be much better off.

Thanks for the racist PM there, Evan. I'll not post it to protect you. I stand up for the protection of ALL people.

It sounds like you more stand up for the denegration of ALL people, applecheeks. You ought to get that looked at.

It sounds like you more stand up for the denegration of ALL people, applecheeks. You ought to get that looked at.

Equal opportunity. Is that some kind of tree-hugging avatar there or what? Oh wait, Asheville. That explains it.

Cities where the American minority is the majority usually do not do good. I live near a minority controlled city that has the highest unemployment in the State, high crime, high poverty, high drug rates, high gang numbers, etc. Is there a correllation? You decide.

On the large influx of Mexicans, that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is all of the illegal Mexicans. They should be thrown in jail, and shipped back at there own expense. But legal immigrants is perfectly fine.

Actually, that's some random anime character I photoshopped until it looked like me. I doubt it's anything to do with tree-hugging, and in fact it's probably just another one of those animes that have to do with those silly giant robots. I hate those. But hey, the avatar worked with only a little altering, so who am I to complain?

Cities where the American minority is the majority usually do not do good. I live near a minority controlled city that has the highest unemployment in the State, high crime, high poverty, high drug rates, high gang numbers, etc. Is there a correllation? You decide.

On the large influx of Mexicans, that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is all of the illegal Mexicans. They should be thrown in jail, and shipped back at there own expense. But legal immigrants is perfectly fine.


YEEESSSSSS!

Equal opportunity. Is that some kind of tree-hugging avatar there or what? Oh wait, Asheville. That explains it.
Hypocrite? You "stand up for the protection of ALL people" yet you belittle people who you suspect are tree-huggers. And, I didn't know it was immoral to be a tree-hugger. Wtf? You need to reevaluate yourself, boy.

You know what used to bother me about the large influx of Mexicans? The biggest, fattest, trashiest white women always seemed to be able to snag the best looking Mexican guys. That's what bothered me. I always used to ask myself -- why? Why can't I land a good-looking guy like that?

Then I met my boyfriend, who is half-Cuban and half-Black, and that took care of that, but out of curiousity I asked him his thoughts on the matter. Turns out though that you usually see the biggest, fattest, trashiest Cuban men with the best looking white chicks on their arms, so he wasn't any help.

I am not racist whatsoever, just for the record. I do not like illegal imiigrants of any race. To sneak into a country and take jobs from legal citizens is just wrong. I personally encourage legal immigrants to come to the US; more diversity is better.

Hypocrite? You "stand up for the protection of ALL people" yet you belittle people who you suspect are tree-huggers. And, I didn't know it was immoral to be a tree-hugger. Wtf? You need to reevaluate yourself, boy.

Hey, relax blackfoot. Those people choose their own path of degeneracy. At least the Mexicans are doing what they were born to do. And of course it is immoral to be a tree-hugger. These luddites value the lives of worthless animals and plants more than they value human life and progress.

Amen to that. "Whites" and "blacks" in the South are rising together. Not so much class tension there. I'd venture to say this noveau riche has more animosity towards old money than each other racially.

The Old Money vs New Money argument with that is another point to be taken into consideration, thanks for bringing that up.

Hey, relax blackfoot. Those people choose their own path of degeneracy. At least the Mexicans are doing what they were born to do. And of course it is immoral to be a tree-hugger. These luddites value the lives of worthless animals and plants more than they value human life and progress.
Where did you get that PhD in Trolling? Must've been a good school. You've gotten away with trolling this forum for this long. And, apparently, you didn't learn about sustainability throughout your ed. Ever heard of the great ecosystem that God created? Yeah, if we don't stop consuming the hell out of it the Earth won't be able to sustain human life. It's common sense.

I am not racist whatsoever, just for the record. I do not like illegal imiigrants of any race. To sneak into a country and take jobs from legal citizens is just wrong. I personally encourage legal immigrants to come to the US; more diversity is better.

What are you talking about? Immigrants don't take jobs from anyone, companies give jobs to them illegally. What you said sounded really racist. I think you are but you just don't realize it. :|

Interesting. Food does have a mysterious way of bringing people together.

http://www.charlotte.com/images/logos/site/charlotte/charlotte/archives_title.gif

Posted on Tue, Oct. 19, 2004


Deep-fried and divided (http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/living/food/9958973.htm)
Conference chews over how food has shaped racial relations and identity in the South
KATHLEEN PURVIS
Food Editor

http://www.charlotte.com/images/charlotte/charlotte/9959/99183422825.jpg

OXFORD, Miss. - Growing up in Chicago, Audrey Petty played air guitar and sang along to white-bread rock like "Bohemian Rhapsody."

Her best friend was white and Jewish.

And she ate chitlins only to please her mother.

"Chitlins were straight-up country -- k-u-n-t-r-e-e. If you called someone `country,' you were calling them out."

The thoroughly assimilated daughter of Southern black parents, Petty grew up to be an assistant professor of English at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. And she came to Mississippi this month to deliver a lecture, "The Sacred and Profane: Late-Night Chitlins With Momma."

Chew over. Swallow. Digest.

Is it a coincidence they are all words that can describe both eating and discussing?

The fifth annual Southern Foodways Symposium convened on the campus of the University of Mississippi Oct. 7-10 to chew over, swallow and try to digest the meaning of Southern food.

After years of lectures that danced delicately around loaded issues of race in Southern food, this time the theme was squarely on the table: "Southern Food in Black and White."

Food and tension

The symposium, organized by a group of writers, historians and interested eaters who call themselves the Southern Foodways Alliance, has always aimed at finding the common ground under the plate.The organizer and driving force is food writer John T. Edge of Ole Miss' Center for the Study of Southern Culture. Edge's genius has come not only from organizing an academic gathering that lures people of diverse backgrounds to talk about controversial subjects.

It's also in the way he has gone about it, giving lectures and events absurd names. This year's conference included "The Fried Chicken Throw Down" and "Possum & Taters: Where Have You Gone?"

The names are slightly silly, easing the discomfort of the subjects they disguise: symbolic foods that are fraught with tension and the contested ownership of traditions.

In that context, watermelon, fried chicken and chitlins aren't just foods. They're symbols of the way we have defined ourselves and others, and the terrible gulf in between.

In America, a land of "familiar strangers," we get mixed messages, said Adrian Miller, this year's program chair. A special assistant to President Clinton who helped organize the White House's Initiative for One America in the 1990s, Miller pointed out the difficulty: We're taught to look past racial differences at the same time we're taught to respect heritage.

That makes it hard to talk, he said.

"We don't have shared memories of history."

`Still talking about race'

Will D. Campbell, the civil-rights and anti-war activist and preacher, started the conference with his own memory of history. A white Mississippi native, he was literally driven out with his family 48 years ago, escorted to the Tennessee border by state troopers.

Some things never change, he said. "We are still `Ole Miss,' and we are still talking about race."

York County, S.C., peach farmer and author Dori Sanders followed, taking the lectern to describe growing up on a black-owned farm. "It wasn't always so wonderful," she said. After the Civil War and well into the 20th century, most black farmers were reduced to sharecropping.

"The S stood for `slavery' and the C stood for `continued,' " she said. "It was slavery continued."

And Diane McWhorter, the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of "Carry Me Home," about growing up white in segregated Birmingham, Ala., described Southern civility as "the balm" that allowed whites to live with segregation.

Along with several other speakers, McWhorter noted one of segregation's greatest ironies:

Black servants could cook and handle white people's food, but they weren't allowed to use the same water fountain or bathroom or share that food at the same table.

After leaving the South, McWhorter found she identified more with blacks than with her Northern neighbors.

"Southern culture is black culture, in a way."

African influence

The discussions continued for three days, chewing over issues like "toting privileges," which allowed black cooks to take leftovers home to their families, and the relationships between domestic servants and their employers. White employers called servants "like a member of the family" but never gave them holidays and Sundays off to be with their own families."I learned to cook at 11 years old," said Dr. Trudier Harris of UNC Chapel Hill. Her own mother was a domestic who had to leave early to cook breakfast for white families.

But as the lectures continued, through brief histories of watermelon rind pickles and descriptions of presidents who loved 'possum and sweet potatoes, an interesting pattern emerged.

People talked about food. And they talked about race. But they never really talked about food and race.

The closest moment came in an informal meeting on the porch of Taylor Grocery, a catfish restaurant near Oxford, when Guelel Sanghott, a musician from Senegal who has lived in Mississippi for a year, took a break from playing for the crowd.

Since Senegal is in West Africa, the origin of most of the slaves who were brought to America, Sanghott was asked if Southern food seemed familiar.

Oh yes, he answered enthusiastically. Jambalaya, okra, rice. They are all food from home. He described a fish stew made with rice and "tomato pasta" (tomato paste).

Skip the fish and it would be a close cousin to Charleston's red rice.

Stripping the myths

Unlike past years, when the symposium brought emotional debate over points of history like the origin of fried chicken, this year's symposium was almost pointedly polite. A New York Times article the day before it opened had predicted fireworks that did not come to pass.

But maybe the reason the Southern Foodways Symposium didn't cover race and food is for the same reason that discussions stayed so respectful:

Maybe Americans are finally reaching a point where differences are less important than similarities, where ownership of tradition is less important than keeping tradition alive.

"This is a process, not a product," said cookbook author Ronni Lundy, a founding member of the alliance. "We keep coming back to the table to strip away the embroidery," to free Southern food of its myths, both romanticized and demonized.

If the differences are disappearing, what we are left with is respect and the right to own our own experiences without denying someone else the right to own them, too.

Maybe the end of conversation is the beginning of understanding.

TALKING POINTS

Program committee chair Adrian Miller is the director of outreach for the Bell Policy Center in Colorado and a former special assistant to President Clinton. He offered a list of community activities to foster discussions of food and race. He also requested that anyone who tries them report the results by e-mailing sfamail@olemiss.edu.

• Dinner club. Host a dinner with diverse guests and feature Southern food items. Discuss how many people in the South eat the same things.

• Book club. Read a Southern cookbook and a soul food cookbook. Compare the similarities and differences.

• Gardening. Start a community garden and share the harvest.

• Faith community. Have a joint worship service with another faith institution. Conclude with a pot-luck supper.

• Oral history. Identify the great cooks, black and white, in your community. Interview them together.

• Chefs. Do a "chef exchange" between white and black chefs at Southern restaurants.

© 2004 Charlotte Observer and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.charlotte.com

The Old Money vs New Money argument with that is another point to be taken into consideration, thanks for bringing that up.
Do you think what I say has truth? The new money class is friendlier towards other ethnic groups within itself than it is towards the entire waspy old money class. New money tends to be more liberal than Republican old money, tho, there are the psuedo Republicans/neo cons.

What are you talking about? Immigrants don't take jobs from anyone, companies give jobs to them illegally. What you said sounded really racist. I think you are but you just don't realize it.

Immigrants not taking jobs from citizens is complete bull. How stupid.
I think you're racist toward white people. Numerous posts you've made on other threads have been racist. And don't pull the little 'I have no clue as to what you're talking about' trick. I know you have been, so there.

Yea Illegal immigrants take jobs from U.S Citizens, usually the lowest paid jobs that no one wants, I don't find pity on any American who has the capability to get a better education and then takes a job at McDonalds.

Imagine how a poor american feels when he cant get that job at Mc. Donalds to put himself through education.

Immigrants not taking jobs from citizens is complete bull. How stupid.
I think you're racist toward white people. Numerous posts you've made on other threads have been racist. And don't pull the little 'I have no clue as to what you're talking about' trick. I know you have been, so there.

I'm not racist against white people, just hicks. There is no hick race. I feel really sorry for you if you are crazy enough to believe immigrants "take" jobs from Americans. Try reading this.

http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=walmart

They take the jobs we won't do. Would you go down into a sewer and clean the shit off the filter screens? Pick produce in the 100 degree Summer sun? Work in a slaughter house cleaning the animal guts up off the floor? Work in a poultry factory beheading chickens everyday? Who would do these, and 1000 other shit jobs, and do it for minimum wage?

I sure the shit wouldn't do ANY of those things above for 50 times above minimum wage. They will, and be glad for it.

Hell, I wouldn't do any of those jobs for any amount of money. They will, and be glad for it. I say, more power to em.

Interesting. Food does have a mysterious way of bringing people together.
That is true, but the bad thing about it is it depends on the region. Like you won't find anything "deep-fried" in the north. Back in my freshman years, my world geography teacher told me and my classmates about the time she encountered culture differences in food. In the north, you ask for a chicken fried steak, then they say, "What the hell is that?" Glad I live where I can eat some fried chicken, steak, and fries, all deep fried! And the soul food as well. :eat:

Damn, you're making crave soul food, now. Fried chicken, pork 'n' beans, mashed potatoes, slaw, and pulled pork BBQ (NC-style, of course)...all that southern goodness. I've decided what I'm eating for dinner. :)

I forgot to mention cornbread. Can't forget cornbread...w/ butter. Sweet potato casserole and/or pecan pie for dessert. Don't forget the essential glass(es) of sweet tea to wash all this down. :cheers:

As a Filipino (Asian-Hispanic), I can only speak from my point of view. I think that racism in America has reduced in the last decades. The roughly 10 million and rapidly growing number of mixed race Americans is a sign that people are coming together. There are mixed celebrities such as Mariah Carey (half balck, half white), Pharrel Williams (half balck, half Filipino) and many more who gain recognition in the society. America may be a melting pot but I would rather put it in the concept of a mosaic nation of many races and ethnicities that are somewhat divided. In almost every major place in America, there are quarters where minorty groups separate themselves from others. I don't know why it has to be like that. To be honest, I can easily mingle with both blacks and whites since I'm non of both, and what I figured out is that the black and white issue in America is total crap. I think it is possible for people to come together if they only want it to happen. If they do this, they could easily trust and get used to each other. This will never be achieved if they don't at least try it. I assume that many blacks and whites want to come together since I know they don't want this problem to go on forever. If they really want to be separated, then I assume they are in favor of having an apartheid society. No one is to blame here since it was caused by history. Many people take it as a burden, but you know, history is past and we should rather learn from it. Peoples' differences keep us from knowing who they really are inside. I hope I said nothing wrong or offending since I speak from my own experience.

Speaking of immigration, for those who think that immigrants take away jobs, I'm not really sure what to say. Isn't it weird that a lot of immigrants who just arrived in the US for a short while can easily find jobs, while the jobless American who has been living in the US for almost all his life cannot find a job? But I also agree that illegal immigration is not right. Many people blame Mexicans for this issue and even recieve hate. But you have to understand that people do not come illegally just because they want to but they really have to. Well, I don't know anything to say right now because it is obvious that illegal immigration in not right. There are 1 million US citizens in America who happen to be Filipino and about 1 million Philippine nationals, while there are also half a million Filipinos who live and work illegally in the US. Mostly in the West Coast. But I think most of them have it easier than the illegal Mexican immigrants since they can easily find contacts and legalize their status. A big plus is also their high fluency in English and high qualification for good jobs, that's why it is not a serious issue.

Good points, Thunder. The "black" and "white" segregation is hard to combat b/c of history, tho. Things are improving with the christening of the New South. The title is an optimistic one and a sign of the times. Time heals all wounds.

Btw, you mentioned Filipino-Am fluency in English. It's true. It has helped them excel and quickly assimilate into society, as Asian immigrants, in the same way Indian-Ams have. Both groups have colonialism to thank. Not saying colonialism was/is right.

Race issues between black and white here in the South are a bit different than in the North. Jim Crow laws mainly sought to segregate whites from minorities in public places and businesses, by in large, it did not tell them where to live. Another thing to take into consideration is the common history and culture Southern blacks and Southern whites share. One thing that's never brought up in discussion about race is the stereotypes associated with the African American community that many whites hold, and a lot of those issues relate to culture. The culture between whites and blacks in the South is much more integrated than in the North. When blacks migrated North after the Civil War and during the two World Wars, many brought elements of their Southern culture with them that are not at all unfamiliar to Southern whites.

One thing you have to understand about the South is that there are many contradictions with race relations. A big reason the economic disparity between blacks and whites in the South is not what it is in the North is the times in which both regions prospered economically. The South has risen economically largely since the 1960's and 1970's, and with this rise, both white AND black Southerners have been brought up economically at the same time, so there is less economic class segregation that corelates to race down here.

Racial tensions in the South have been historically about skin color more than culture. Where such ingrained mentalities have largely disappeared in the South, you'll find whites and blacks sitting together in the same restaurants, going to the same grocery stores, driving the same cars, living in the same shitty suburban housing, etc, etc, etc. Now that a lot of such tension is gone (not all of it, there's still a significant amount left), the common Southern culture is doing what it's supposed to do, cross racial lines. This is exactly what most segregationists feared.

I know I put that rant together as I was sorting out the thoughts in my head in a linear fashion, but I think you get my point. De facto segregation was much more common in the North. Not so in the South, so you had de jure segregation rear its ugly head as a result of fear from the elite white community here in the South.

great post; thanks for sharing and informing.

Btw, you mentioned Filipino-Am fluency in English. It's true. It has helped them excel and quickly assimilate into society, as Asian immigrants, in the same way Indian-Ams have. Both groups have colonialism to thank. Not saying colonialism was/is right.

Oh,well. As Asian immigrants. I am an Asian in common understanding and Filipinos are geographically Asians.

Another note in racism: When the first waves of Filipinos came to America in the 19th century, a lot of them still had the typical native aborigine Negrito features. That's why they were seen and described by the society as "negroes of the south". I actually also read an article about it. Due to large migrations from China and Vietnam, most Filipnios are today, somewhat mixed.That's why they appear to be Asians. But the Philippines was also colonized for over 300 by Spain, that's why some Filipnios could also pass as Hispanic. I know how that is, I also apear to look Hispanic in a way. People often think I'm Mexican even though I'm not. They cuss me and say nasty depressing stuff about Mexicans and Mexico in general. I only listen and observe hoy they express their hate. It's actually sad. I get to understand what many illegal immigrants have to go through everyday. Today, many people still argue wether Filipinos should be classified as Asian of Pacific Islander or even Hispanic. I don't really care about race at all.

Everything said is true, Thunder. Filipinos are kinda outcasts of Asia. They are Asian, tho. I think some East and SE Asians resent not having such close ties with the West as the Philippines. About the negritos in the Philippines, from what I understand, they remain in the mountains. They never got assimilated in Philippine society. Also, Filipino are darker in the southern part of the country b/c there's more interbreeding with light-skinned East Asians in the northern part, namely Manila/Luzon.

Yeah. From what I know, Negritos still stay in iscolated regions. But I read this Newpaper article from Boston Globe, which dates back fom 1880's and showed pics of them. Weird. You know what, I think it is cool discussing with you, as if we're having an actual conversation than posting replies.

Yeah. From what I know, Negritos still stay in iscolated regions. But I read this Newpaper article from Boston Globe, which dates back fom 1880's and showed pics of them. Weird. You know what, I think it is cool discussing with you, as if we're having an actual conversation than posting replies.
Hey, same to you. I try to post what I'd say, in the way I'd say it, in a real conversation. This is a discussion board, right?

Yeah. From what I know, Negritos still stay in iscolated regions. But I read this Newpaper article from Boston Globe, which dates back fom 1880's and showed pics of them. Weird. You know what, I think it is cool discussing with you, as if we're having an actual conversation than posting replies.

My mother is Filipino. She has some spanish in her from far in the past. Her maiden name is Monticello. My father, on the other hand, is full German.

So what's the topic of this thread again....Race Issues in The South? Lets stick to the topic please.

Race Issues-I don't really think there are many left; except maybe in the extremely rural portions. A new wave I myself have seen is a slight dislike of Mexicans. Most southerners get on their guard at the thought of them taking away their jobs, etc. But thats about all; rwally, not many issues are left at all.

I have lived alot of places all over, north south east west. And I have to say that there is always some form of racism. While it is not as widespread as it may have been in say 1968, it is still very alive in the minds of most southerners. I have known Louisvillians young and old to use the N-word or talk poorly about a black community. I have also lived in Mississippi and you would think that we were back on a cotton plantation circa 1849. In the neighborhood I grew up in, in Los Angeles people had very harsh words/feelings toward mexicans. I went to Boarding school in Salt Lake City, and I ahve to say that city has very very very little diversity so ...no problems there, it has to be the biggest cleanest waspy suburb ever. As far as mexicans taking jobs, I have never really witnessed it or heard of anyone opposing it except in the media, I do disagree somewhat that since you are illegal it is my understanding that you dont pay taxes, I think that is a little lame. Also it has been said that most of them send most of their paychecks home to mexico which means it does not help the local economy too much. Then in their defense they are usually not put in very good conditions nor do they get payed very much (why they are hired in the first place).

Sorry, offtopic. SChris, if you don't mind me asking, how have you lived in so many places? You remind me of my cousin. After graduating from high school, he traveled everywhere in the country by living with friends in various places and using his parent's money. Sounds like fun, tho, I think he lost a lot of friends by wearing out his welcome. He even stayed with my family for two weeks. Fortunately, we didn't have to kick him out b/c we got sick of him. He got sick of the place and found a new city to hop to. Eventually, he did join the Army so could continue to travel and because his parents forced him b/c they got sick of his mooching. Lol. Talk about an adventurous guy.

Yes, people do get defensive about mexicans taking their jobs; I'm talking on the manufacturing sector. Where most whites/blacks want around $15.00 an hour, most mexicans will work for $8.00 or so.

I have lived alot of places all over, north south east west. And I have to say that there is always some form of racism. While it is not as widespread as it may have been in say 1968, it is still very alive in the minds of most southerners

I grew up in New York, moved to the LA area in my late 20s and have lived in Charlotte for about 5 years now. I will tell you this...there is racism everywhere and I believe it is just as bad in the Northeast and West as it is in the South. The main difference is racism is openly stated and displayed in the South, while people exercise it quietly and "underground" elsewhere, like some sort of secret society. I'm white, and I witnessed it every day at my Wall Street job. From my experience, most of the racism was against blacks and latinos, while the least was toward Asians and Indians, because they were considered "smart".

I have to laugh at New Yorkers who say to look at all the diversity in the city and how people all get along, ride the subway together, etc, etc. Well, people of all backgrounds might work together, but the neighborhoods and villages both in the city and in the suburbs of New Jersey, Long Island, Westchester and Connecticut are the most segregated in the country. Birds of a feather flock together, especially in NY. Those liberal chic New Yorkers who are trumpeting diversity go home to their lilly white co-ops on the Upper West Side or SoHo, or their 5000 square foot houses in Greenwich, CT or Short Hills, NJ.

But I also believe there is reverse racsim as well...if you don't believe it and your white, try walking on E. 125th Street late at night with your black or Latina girlfriend and see what happens.

And although I've never lived there, I will tell you that my Irish Catholic friends from Boston (most from an area called "Southie") were amongst the biggest racists I've ever met, hands down.

So I don't think the South (at least North Carolina) is any worse in terms of the degree of racism than anywhere else in the U.S.

Good post smellycat; I agree.

Per the earlier request I was staying upon the subject of racism in the south, yet I may have gave a cloudy image that I think only southerners are racist. However the first two sentences were made to clear that up. I do believe racism in different regions is geared toward different ethnicities. I think Angelinos are just as voiced about their mexican racism as someone in Mississippi about black people.

I think
But I also believe there is reverse racsim as well...if you don't believe it and your white, try walking on E. 125th Street late at night with your black or Latina girlfriend and see what happens.
is just plain old flat out racism, not reverse neccesarily, in conjunction with my comment that racism is toward many races even though the main picture is geared at African Americans. I have never liked that term, if an asian hates on people is that upside-down racism?

Other than that I will agree that most people that clamour on about diversity and seem to embrace it are as clique oriented as the rest.

Personally I encounter more racism between minorities then the whole black vs. white issue, at least here in Chicago.

In regards to SmellyCats comment about undercover racism being in the north, I'd have to say there is alot of behind your back racism in the south as well (not disregarding your experiences in anyway). Growing up in the "new south" as a resident of South Carolina if you step into the backwoods somewhere racism is very blatent and in your face. However if you venture into some of the so called "we've arrived, new south" areas of the state the racism is a lot more undercover. They still hate but it's not politically correct to be out-forth with it. At least that's been my experience anyway?

I agree with you in the masses. Usage of certain vocabulary in a large metropolitan area such as Charlotte etc, is low class. So it can be done in subtle ways, but out yonder it seems class as well as diversity encounters arent as prevalent making it more blatant.

I hate it when people think a certain race should only listen to certain kind of music. For exampe, Rock is for "whites" and Hip-Hop/R&B is for "blacks".

and reggae is for weed heads.

Numerous demographic projections point towards the time around 2050 when the US will offically become non-majority white. That is the time when the white population is expected to drop below 50% for the first time, becoming a plurality but not a majority.

I have a sense that the whole race issue (and the whole race nonsense issue) will be settled long before that. And it won't be coming from counting whites, blacks, hispanics, or Asians.

It will come from the huge growth in folks with no racial group, folks who are the off-spring of people of different races. The same mixing we once saw between Catholic Irish and Catholic Italians in the US is now between races. There are some things to consider here: this trend can and will only increase and, maybe even more importantly IT CAN'T BE UNDONE. Think about that....for every mix, there is no way to unmix. It's permanent. We're talking about the worst nightmere the Third Reich could have ever had. We're talking about why white supremacists have themselves seculded in the mountains of Montana and Idaho, away from an America that all their hatred and gunpower cannot change.

It is this rapidly growing group of people of no single race that will be what truly end the issue of race in America, not whites falling below 50% of the nation. And thank God for that.

I hate it when people think a certain race should only listen to certain kind of music. For exampe, Rock is for "whites" and Hip-Hop/R&B is for "blacks".
and reggae is for weed heads.
Another ex.: Country/western music is for white people in Texas, cowboys and rednecks who play guitars, ride bulls, drive big pickup trucks and feed farm animals.

Isnt it interesting how you can identify a frenchman, a spaniard, a brit etc etc. It is weird to think about because it probably all just stemmed from migration and eventually people had a common feature. It is neat to think in 100 to 200 years americans may be able to be commonly recognized as the american race. Of course by then mutations will probably have us looking rediculously different anyways.

"Another ex.: Country/western music is for white people in Texas, cowboys and rednecks who play guitars, ride bulls, drive big pickup trucks and feed farm animals."

I really thought that was true...I guess we are all guilty at some point then . :)

Isnt it interesting how you can identify a frenchman, a spaniard, a brit etc etc. It is weird to think about because it probably all just stemmed from migration and eventually people had a common feature. It is neat to think in 100 to 200 years americans may be able to be commonly recognized as the american race. Of course by then mutations will probably have us looking rediculously different anyways.

It would take a lot longer than that. For a country of 300 million people of all different races to merge into a single, recognizable race would take centuries upon centuries, if not millenia, to fully play out.

True...but its a sweet thought isnt it....maybe

That would be cool to see.

It is this rapidly growing group of people of no single race that will be what truly end the issue of race in America, not whites falling below 50% of the nation. And thank God for that.
Mixing between which specific groups in the US? Asians and Caucasians? Caucasians and Africans? Hispanics and Africans? Jews and Gentiles? Etc? If the mixing occurs among Asians and Caucasians it's not really a big deal, both are not "at risk" groups. On the other hand, mixing between Hispanics and Africans is not really a big deal either, both are "at risk" groups. Now, if mixing becomes commonplace between Caucasians and Africans, we were talking about in the suburbs, the US has come a looooonngg way. You catch my drift?

Another important point, IMO, mixing between two races is more a sign of good race relations than a catalyst for mixing. Mixed race people do kind of break the taboo and cause a multiplier effect. However, the taboo must be broken first before the multiplier can cause it's effect.

Lastly, what about people who come to the US already w/ an ambiguous race classification? By 2050, Hispanics will make up 25% of the pop. Hispanics can be of any race, many, actually most, are already mixed race. I think you're discounting the significance of this. While you're thinking on race mixing is idealist it isn't realistic. I doubt race mixing will result a mixed race class that will out number Hispanics. Then there's the Middle Easterners and Asian Indians who can classify themselves as Caucasian. ;)