Toronto Subways

[hkskyline]

http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/images/emblem.gif

Subway Map
http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/schedules/subway/images/subway_rt.gif

Sheppard-Yonge Station
http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6633.jpg

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6630.jpg

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6631.jpg

Don Mills Station
http://www.geocities.com/canadawestphotos/20031222/RIMG3066.jpg

Davisville Depot
http://img75.exs.cx/img75/8366/101_0060.jpg

http://img75.exs.cx/img75/9414/101B0030.jpg

http://img75.exs.cx/img75/9616/101B0011.jpg

http://img75.exs.cx/img75/3751/101B0050.jpg

Track & Depot near Wilson Station
http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6674.jpg

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6669.jpg

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6675.jpg

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6664.jpg

Yorkdale Station
http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6682.jpg

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6679.jpg

Downsview Terminus
http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6702.jpg

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6697.jpg

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6698.jpg

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6692.jpg

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6702.jpg

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6704.jpg

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6705.jpg

http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20040612/RIMG6707.jpg

[superchan7]

I don't like those trains..........

[DrJoe]

well generally subway cars arent made for looks.

[superchan7]

Hop on over to the Hong Kong MTR thread...I won't say they're beautiful works of art, but they look decent.

[DrJoe]

http://www.urbanrail.net/am/toro/ttc18.jpg

http://www.urbanrail.net/am/toro/ttc16.jpg

http://www.urbanrail.net/am/toro/ttc17.jpg

happy???

[superchan7]

Hey those look pretty good, whats the difference from those of the other pics? Are they mixed on the same lines or do they just run on different lines?

[Palal]

The heavy-rail trains are not very nice-looking.

[KGB]

Those Bombardier T-1's are the best money can buy...ultra heavy duty workhorses. I think they are gorgeous...just like having a restaurant quality stainless range in your house, instead of some consumer crap made to look professional.

And you guys like those little 1970's era RT pieces of crap???????

Don't tell me...you are the kind of people who like taking those little japanese shitboxes and filling them up with aftermarket crap...spoilers and neon lights underneath...rendering an already bad looking car a complete joke??? LOL!!!


And as usual, very bad pictures. Maybe it should be renamed..."subway yards" ?






KGB

[SD]

Don't tell me...you are the kind of people who like taking those little japanese shitboxes and filling them up with aftermarket crap...spoilers and neon lights underneath...rendering an already bad looking car a complete joke??? LOL!!!


KGB


"Japanese shitboxes"? If you're referring to Civics, Corollas, etc. those arguably are the best quality cars you can buy in their class.

[KGB]

I'm talking about those little cars people buy and put those little coffee can looking things on their tailpipes to pretend it sounds like a Ferrari.

Anyway, that's not really important....I'm talking about people's cheezy taste.






KGB

[Grey Towers]

Subways are meant to be functional. I don't see anything wrong with the old cars; in fact I prefer them to the ones with the red stripes.

[DrJoe]

the silver ones are actually the newer ones i believe.

[superchan7]

Nothing wrong with spicing it up like the red and white ones, just for a more pleasant appearance...
The industrial/"Gotham" look of the other trains kind of deters me, like the ones in New York.

[KGB]

"Nothing wrong with spicing it up like the red and white ones, just for a more pleasant appearance..."


Why the hell would you want to paint stainless steel and aluminum? Not only is it more practical, they look much slicker that way. You guys seem to have very tacky taste...this is the real world...not a fuking world's fair or Disney Land.

And these are not old...those little ICTS RT "toys" are what's old...they were designed in the 70's and delivered to the TTC in 1985. Thise T-1's are brand new (well, they began arriving in like 1998 onwards).

The TTC had Bombardier custom make those T-1's...they are state of the art, very roomy and VERY heavy duty...it's no wonder you think they look like New York trains....New York loved them so much they bought them too.






KGB

[superchan7]

Or, you could ditch the steel and use lighter aluminium or alloys (which is what the red/white train has, since you said you don't paint steel), just like the foul language could be ditched here.

[algonquin]

I'm with KGB on this one. The Scarborough LRT is an outdated 70's style. They remind me of the blue Montreal Metro cars. The Bombardier's are more appropriate for a subway anyways.

[en]

I like the blue Montreal Metro cars, makes it look very European and has a nice 60s feel to it.

From all the pictures I seen of Toronto, it just looks like copy of NY's subway, a run down old and depressing system.

[salvius]

The RT cars are indeed a piece of shite, no idea how anyone can like them.

NY and TO subs are nothing alike in almost every respect. To even make such a comment is to show ignorance.

[Palal]

I take some of my words back. After looking at pics on nycsubway.org, I do agree, that for the most part, they look okay. However, something needs to be done to their cabs. It would be nice it the face of the cab was somehow smoother.

You have to realize that transportation has to appeal to the average user, and that "sleekness" and "smoothness" is a part of appeal today.

Also, a few red stripes couldn't hurt, although I know how hard it is to paint aluminum.

[KGB]

"You have to realize that transportation has to appeal to the average user, and that "sleekness" and "smoothness" is a part of appeal today."


Well...that's just the point...these things actually look good...the TTC could have just as easily had them made to look like Lamborghinis if they wanted to. But why would they do that? People have better taste here I guess....the rest of you can have an orgasm over your tacky toys if you like....we'll stick with professional.

If you are going to open a restaurant...do you buy the big pro range...or an Easy-Bake oven?







"The RT cars are indeed a piece of shite, no idea how anyone can like them."

Well, their linear induction motors and driverless automation was a novelty back in the day I guess (and this was a compromise from the mag lev technology the Ontario government was working on). You should check out what some of the Vancouverite forumers have to say about it (they have the excact same thing)...they are calling it "the most advanced transit system in the world" LOL!!!






KGB

[cntower]

Looks? People care about Looks of Subway Cabs?

What the hell is the point of making a subway cab look good when 90% of the time it's UNDERGROUND! Who's gonna care? The people who ride it? I think they have better things to do like GET TO WORK or SCHOOL then to view a paint job of a subway car!

I like these cabs; they look solid!

[Roch5220]

A subway car is a subway car. Who cares.

The 1970 RT cars are indeed outdated.

Montreal cars are nice - but not a fan of the rubber tires (makes the ride a little more bumpy than others).

[superchan7]

Appearance isn't the biggest factor in public transport usage, but with attractive appearance--whatever that may be for a given region in the world--more people would consider using public transportation utilities.

So if the people in Toronto feel that their trains look nice, then that's all that matters to Toronto. Post pictures of them in this international forum, though, and one should expect to get a mixed bag of opinions.

[salvius]

^ I think the fact that there was some consensus that the RT cars looked better makes me not take these comments very seriously.

[SD]

I'm talking about those little cars people buy and put those little coffee can looking things on their tailpipes to pretend it sounds like a Ferrari.

Anyway, that's not really important....I'm talking about people's cheezy taste.






KGB


Usually Civics...those are great cars. Many of the ground effects and customizations you can get are indeed cheesy but there is some nice stuff out there too.

[SD]

Well...that's just the point...these things actually look good...the TTC could have just as easily had them made to look like Lamborghinis if they wanted to. But why would they do that? People have better taste here I guess....the rest of you can have an orgasm over your tacky toys if you like....we'll stick with professional.

If you are going to open a restaurant...do you buy the big pro range...or an Easy-Bake oven?


KGB


They wouldn't do it because of cost. I personally like our subway trains, I think they look great, but I don't think exterior aesthetics were at the top of the priority list.

I wish they'd go red like the old Rockets. As a kid I remember they'd run one once in a while...those were great.

[TRZ]

The new T-1s are fabulous, except for the seats - hard as a rock. I used to like the older models that had couchier seats (they actually were more like couches as there were no divisions into individual seats). But gawd were they noisy compared to the new ones.

The RT is mixed bag. It's not visually bad, but it does look old-school. It also has the same uncomfortable seats, and with stupidly narrow aisles!

There's a difference between appealing appearance and clean appearance. The T-1s are an efficiency thing, but even still, they look like what they are - subway cars. The much wider windows on them compared to their predecessors also adds some good aesthetic by shape alone, letting it speak for itself.

If I was going to alter the design at all, it would only be a single stripe - that's it, representative of the line it services (Green = B/D, Yellow = Y/U/S, Purple = Sheppard). It's not necessary though. Tokyo Metro employs this method/logic, but they have a much more complicated system that justifies it.

[KGB]

"I wish they'd go red like the old Rockets. As a kid I remember they'd run one once in a while...those were great."


Yea...the origional Gloucesters...they actually ran some of them right up to 1990. I remember them back when they had those round glass incandescent lights that would flicker when the subway went through switches.

The new T-1's brought back the pull-down handles of the origionals...much better than that maze of bars all over the place.

These were short though...57 feet vs the usual 75 feet. Damn well built though...even by the 1980s, although reaching the end of their lives, they remained in such good condition that Lima, Peru seriously considered buying the cars for their new subway system.



http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/archives/canada_first_subway/images/9563-1.jpg


KGB

[spsmiler]

"I wish they'd go red like the old Rockets. As a kid I remember they'd run one once in a while...those were great."


Yea...the origional Gloucesters...they actually ran some of them right up to 1990. I remember them back when they had those round glass incandescent lights that would flicker when the subway went through switches.

The new T-1's brought back the pull-down handles of the origionals...much better than that maze of bars all over the place.

These were short though...57 feet vs the usual 75 feet. Damn well built though...even by the 1980s, although reaching the end of their lives, they remained in such good condition that Lima, Peru seriously considered buying the cars for their new subway system.


KGB


The old Gloucesters were built in Britain, and painted red to match the London Underground trains.

As a Brit I found them fascinating because they combined features which here were to be found on a diverse range of urban rail systems.

Things such as the lampshades, the push-buttons to open the doors, etc.

Simon

[hkskyline]

Passengers can use monthly passes on electronic cards or tokens, which are dime-sized coins that can be dropped into fareboxes.

http://www.geocities.com/canadawestphotos/20031222/RIMG3064.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/americanstocks/token02.JPG

[hkskyline]

Train Interior

http://www.geocities.com/niagarafallsphotos/20031109/RIMG2622.jpg

[Jaybird]

http://www.urbanrail.net/am/toro/ttc18.jpg

http://www.urbanrail.net/am/toro/ttc16.jpg

http://www.urbanrail.net/am/toro/ttc17.jpg

happy???

Charming. Looks like a carbon copy of Detroit's People Mover trains.

[Nick in Atlanta]

:) The "rt"s, aren't they just on the Scarborough section of the subway and most of their time is spent above ground, while the main TTC trains are mostly underground. I like the cars that have been around forever.

I'm glad to see that the Sheppard Line is partially completed. Will it go farther west than Sheppard station? How about to the airport? :) :runaway:

[M II A II R II K]

I wonder what the next train will look like....

[hkskyline]

The subway link to the airport was part of the Eglinton subway plan. However, it seems that a dedicated airport link to downtown will be built instead. The focus on the Sheppard line is to extend it east to Scarborough Town Centre.

[DrJoe]

Passengers can use monthly passes on electronic cards or tokens, which are dime-sized coins that can be dropped into fareboxes.

http://www.geocities.com/canadawestphotos/20031222/RIMG3064.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/americanstocks/token02.JPG

The ttc is finally planning to scrap this system and use smart cards...here's an article

'Smart-card' use wise for future, TTC decides
Toronto transit to join provincial plan allowing riders seamless travel in GTA

By JEFF GRAY
Saturday, November 27, 2004 - Page A21

In just five years, the Toronto Transit Commission's tokens, paper tickets and transfers could be collectors' items, its vice-chairman predicts, because of a move announced yesterday to join the province's regional transit "smart card" plan.

TTC vice-chairman Joe Mihevc said that under the plan, which involves GO Transit and the other major transit systems in the greater Toronto area, state-of-the-art smart-card readers will eventually replace the TTC's fare boxes, and allow riders onto buses, streetcars and subways with just a flick of the wrist.

"Five years is not a long time, but I don't think I'm being aggressive or ambitious in saying that 2010 is a good guess," Mr. Mihevc said yesterday, adding that the new technology would kill the trade in bogus tickets and tokens, which costs the TTC at least $2-million a year.

The province's Greater Toronto Area fare-card plan aims to allow riders to transfer seamlessly from system to system across the region, using one common electronic card. But until now, TTC staff, often accused of being overcautious on technology, were reluctant to get involved because of the estimated $140-million cost of converting the TTC alone.

Yesterday, TTC commissioner Brian Ashton told a breakfast conference put on by the Canadian Urban Institute that the TTC had signed on to the province's plan, which aims to have its first smart cards in use by 2007, for tests on Mississauga's transit system and the Milton GO train line.

"We feel the future's upon us now," Mr. Ashton said in an interview, adding that it took some persuading to move senior TTC brass. "This is a big departure for us."

The new cards, which are in place in scores of cities around the world, allow transit riders to board buses, subways or streetcars by holding the card close to a reading device.

The cards themselves, with a microchip embedded, can be used like credit cards, with cash uploaded via vending machines or the Internet. The right combination of fares is charged to the user automatically, whether the card is used on a bus in York Region or a subway downtown.

Mr. Mihevc said the TTC's change of heart on the plan came as it became clear that Queen's Park gave it priority. Also, money to establish the system is part of the $1-billion funding announcement from senior levels of government earlier this year.

By 2007, the TTC's smart-card readers could be installed for test runs at Finch and Union stations, he said, although details still have to be worked out.

Danna O'Brien, speaking for Ontario Transportation Minister Harinder Takhar, said the government is delighted that the TTC, which carries more than 90 per cent of all transit riders in the GTA, has chosen to participate.

"I think for it to truly work you need all municipalities . . . and you certainly wouldn't want a gap in the middle of Toronto," Ms. O'Brien said, adding that the whole project was still subject to various approvals.

The latest generation of smart cards, called contactless because they merely need to be held close to a reader rather than swiped through like a credit card, are in use in several world cities.

With Hong Kong's Octopus system of transit smart cards, launched in 1997, you can buy a coffee, among other things. You can even charge up a chip in your wristwatch with cash, and use it instead.

In September, the Netherlands launched the first phase of a project to put the entire country's transit on one smart card, beginning with the city of Rotterdam.

Jeroen Kok, chairman of the company set up to run the Dutch smart-card system, Trans Link Systems, also spoke at yesterday's transit conference.

He said smart cards allow transit agencies to better understand how many riders are using the system.

With paper tickets, he said: "It's kind of like having an oil company and you don't know how much oil is flowing from the pipes. How can you plan?"

TTC chief general manager Rick Ducharme said the smart card won't necessarily eliminate fraud, because criminals will inevitably find ways to beat the system. He also wasn't quite as optimistic as the vice-chairman on the early demise of tickets and tokens, saying he thought they would likely have to co-exist with smart cards, at least at first. "Most agencies I'm aware of have to have something [for people without smart cards]. . . ., " he said.

[hkskyline]

December 2, 2004
GTA transit numbers jump
Kevin McGran, Toronto Star

There's a quiet revolution happening: more people are riding transit.

There will be at least 11 million more rides on transit in 2004 than 2003 across Greater Toronto, if current trends hold. Most of them will be on the TTC, which is rebounding from SARS and the blackout, but GO Transit and all the 905 services are seeing a significant rise in use as well.

For the first half of 2004, there were more than 271.3 million rides on buses, subways, streetcars and trains on transit authorities in the region enclosed by and including Hamilton, Barrie and Oshawa, according to the Canadian Urban Transit Association. That's 5.8 million rides more than the first six months of 2003, or about a 2.2 per cent increase.

"Of the various initiatives that transit systems can take to encourage ridership, improving the quality and frequency of service is the one that has the most effect," said Michael Roschlau, president of the association, a lobby group for Canadian transit authorities and suppliers.

Yesterday, GO Transit said it added more than 1 million riders in the first six months of 2004, a 6.5 per cent increase over last year. For GO, the new riders are the result of increased service. GO added 11 new passenger railcars with more than 1,400 additional seats and 22 new buses to make room for 4,600 more riders every day.

"Any time we add capacity, it gets picked up," said Gordon Chong, chairman of GO Transit. "As much as we'd like to claim credit, the truth is the system is bursting and the people who would love to use transit are there, and if we can supply the capacity, whether it's trains, buses, additional parking, they'll come."

While the TTC attributes its rebound to a SARS-free and blackout-free economy, the trend upward is perhaps even more notable in the 905, where the car rules.

The trend began in 2003. About 3 million more people took municipal buses in 2003 in Durham, Halton, Peel and York regions than they did in 2002. That's a 6 per cent rise to 53,198,411 from 50,480,347.

York Region Transit is leading the way with 10 per cent growth annually for the last three years and the numbers are keeping up this year, surpassing 10 million rides for the first time in 2003. (Their numbers don't include the estimated 1.5 million riders who switched to their service when YRT took over a couple of GO bus routes.) Don Gordon, general manager of YRT, said the amalgamation of the region's various bus services under one banner has helped.

"We've almost doubled service since amalgamation," said Gordon. "With more service and more service hours, it's only logical that you would grow ridership. In addition to that, there's organic ridership growth just caused by population and employment growth.

"But there's no question improvement in service has attracted more people to public transit."

In Durham Region, transit ridership is up marginally. Whitby and Oshawa lost some riders in 2003, but Ajax-Pickering gained about 60,000. Oshawa and Whitby are working closer than they ever have to improve service, introducing a cross-border route. Oshawa ridership is up 14 per cent so far this year, mostly due to increased traffic to the local university and the addition of seven new buses.

And Durham Region is close to finalizing plans to follow York Region and amalgamate all its services. Mississauga surpassed 25 million riders for the first time in 2003, and is tracking higher for 2004. Brampton and Oakville are also enjoying growth spurts.

[Roch5220]

^ Good news of course, but still disappointing that ridership still hasn't fully recovered from the late 80s.

For the first half of 2004, there were more than 271.3 million rides on buses, subways, streetcars and trains on transit authorities in the region enclosed by and including Hamilton, Barrie and Oshawa, according to the Canadian Urban Transit Association. That's 5.8 million rides more than the first six months of 2003, or about a 2.2 per cent increase.

York Region Transit is leading the way with 10 per cent growth annually for the last three years and the numbers are keeping up this year, surpassing 10 million rides for the first time in 2003. (Their numbers don't include the estimated 1.5 million riders who switched to their service when YRT took over a couple of GO bus routes.) Don Gordon, general manager of YRT, said the amalgamation of the region's various bus services under one banner has helped.
.

York Region only has annual ridership of 10 million rides yet they want billions of dollars to increase ridership to a meager 38%.

[Homer J. Simpson]

^Yes, I too find that a little on the ridiculous side.

I am glad to hear about a smart card system as they are a much more effecient way to get occasional users to pay fares.

[hkskyline]

There are several key routes in York Region Transit that feed into the TTC. The Yonge and Hwy 7 trunk routes bring a lot of ridership to the subway connection at Finch Station.

It's quite ironic that even YRT, with its low ridership levels, is investing a lot of money with real-time bus tracking, BRT, and new transit bays and shelters on the major corridors.

[KGB]

Hmmm...this must be Toronto....we bitch about the 905's suburban nature...and we bitch about them wanting to invest in mass transit.

Let's just change the name to Humeville.






KGB

[Homer J. Simpson]

I don't deny that investing in transit in York Region is important to the future developement of that area. But this funding for expantion in the 905 seems a little misplaced when considering 90% of PT trips in the GTA are taken on the TTC.

[KGB]

And unless the 905 starts promoting public transit, it's going to remain 90%...while the 905 continues to grow bigger than the 416.

Serious initial transit infastructure is always expensive...you shoulda heard Torontonians gripe when they wanted to build the first subway line...and that was built entirely with TTC profits!!






KGB

[hkskyline]

November 27, 2004
TTC on board for smart fare card
Kevin McGran, Toronto Star

We may have to start calling it The Better e-Way.

After initial resistance, the Toronto Transit Commission is now fully on board with a $200 million provincial plan that would create a single high-tech fare system from Hamilton to Oshawa. "It's going to happen and we know the province is going to invest in it. We want to get it right," Brian Ashton, a Toronto councillor and TTC commissioner, said in an interview yesterday.

Ashton made his comments at a meeting of the Canadian Urban Institute, which drew leaders from around the Greater Toronto Area to talk about the future of transit. Ashton said in an interview that the about-face came after a closed-door meeting of TTC commissioners last week.

GO Transit chairman Gordon Chong called the decision "terrific," adding: "They had to be dragged kicking and screaming, but I guess they've seen the future."

Electronic smart card systems are already in place in several American, Asian and European cities. A microchip in the card counts off transit rides. Depending on the technology used, the cards, which can be purchased with a set number of rides on them, are topped up at kiosks and wickets, and in some systems via a secure website.

When riders enter a station or step on to a vehicle, a card reader scans the chip, verifying that the fare is paid and deducting it from the number of trips on the card. Some transit smart cards don't even require removing them from a pocket, wallet or purse.

The chips can be adjusted to allow for the price of an adult, senior or child's fare, or sliding-scale fares like GO's zone system. Some can even instruct a door to stay open longer for a disabled passenger or someone who travels with a seeing-eye dog.

It will take about two years to implement a pilot project - likely to include GO Transit, parts of Mississauga Transit and the TTC's Union Station, which
is the primary transfer point for commuters arriving by GO. If successful, the project would roll out across the GTA, between Hamilton and Oshawa.

GO Transit has been the biggest backer of the smart card technology, because its proof of payment machines - in which tickets are inserted so the travel date can be stamped on them - are old, breaking down and too expensive to replace.

GO hired smart card expert Robert Hollis a year ago to run the project. But the Dalton McGuinty Liberals, who campaigned on a promise to integrate fares in the GTA, pushed GO to work faster and ultimately brought Hollis on board to work directly for the government.

The government plans to issue a request for proposals to smart card suppliers in the next few months - with or without the TTC - and the City of Toronto didn't want to be left behind.

The TTC, by far the largest transit system in the GTA carrying 80 per cent of all riders, had resisted the smart card because it had more pressing issues to
spend money on: namely new bus purchases and maintenance of tracks, streetcars and subways.

But without the TTC's participation, the Liberal promise of integrated transit would have been empty.

The TTC's chief general manager, Rick Ducharme, said yesterday the TTC is on board now because financial promises from Queen's Park and Ottawa, through the gas tax and other measures, mean its future is more stable.

"We're in the camp," said Ducharme. "Our commitment is to fully co-operate and take this much more seriously."

Queen's Park is expected to pay for GO's part of the bill, about $60 million, and at least one-third of the remaining $140 million, with the municipalities and
the federal government paying the rest.

Ashton said the city is not so concerned about seamless travel between transit authorities but about the smart card's economic benefits. People could use the card to pay for coffee, lunch or other goods at subway stations and corner stores.

"Think of the things you can do," said Ashton. "You're into advertisers on your smart cards or aeroplan miles if you want. The marketing capabilities are enormous.

"We think there's a potential beyond transit. E-transit will become e-city," Ashton added. "There's a huge opportunity and not only to serve the transit
system but potentially to make Toronto an e-city (and) we're far behind in a whole number of areas."

The TTC has been accused of dragging its feet on the issue, and admits it has problems with passengers buying tokens, tickets and Metropasses. It's considering a huge move toward vending machines to dispense tickets and tokens. A smart card could simplify fares and simplify the counting of cash.

"Our equipment, though it's old-fashioned, it still works," said Ashton. "However, we know we have problems moving cash around. We know we have problems with fare media fraud. People around us are becoming more modern, we don't want to be seen as some city Luddite."

Ducharme said it's too early to tell whether the TTC would entirely eliminate the "gravity box" which collects tickets, tokens and coins, but he said he's
gone from a cynic to a believer, in part because of a trip to Hong Kong where the smart card is a smashing success.

"Can we do it? Once you see it you believe it. I was in Hong Kong and I was very impressed," said Ducharme, adding that smart card suppliers have had a decade to work out the kinks. "Just because I didn't push it doesn't mean I don't believe strongly in it. I believe we can do it."

[ilovetoronto]

I guess since I'm 13, I can't make comments on other transit systems, but I like the TTC. The Scarborough RT is REALLY ugly. It looks fake. The subways, however, look real. The idea of putting coloured stripes on the cars is impractical beacuse it would mean that the TTC could not move wagons between the diffrent lines.

[Nick]

Very impressive.

I rode the Toronto system in 2001.I was pretty happy with the serivce

[hkskyline]

Spadina subway study nearing finish
Advocates can select preferred routes online Subway to link York University to Downsview
Hicham Safieddine
Toronto Star
19 May 2005

Time is running out for public transit enthusiasts to select their preferred route for a Spadina subway extension.

The last public workshop to discuss the pros and cons of four possible routes for the proposed extension was held yesterday at an education centre in the city's west end.

But transit advocates who missed the meeting can still have their say with a click of a button, thanks to a new online service launched on the TTC website Tuesday.

The deadline for submissions is June 1.

"The online commentary is great for us," TTC chief engineer Tom Middlebrook said.

"The information is put in and we don't have to interpret what the participants submitted into the computer like we do with handwritten forms."

The workshop is part of Phase II of a $3 million environmental assessment study of the project, which is designed to link Downsview Station with York University and beyond in York region, one of the fastest growing regions of the GTA.

Members of the public will also get a chance to comment on the locations of the proposed stations along their chosen routes, and any additions or modifications they think will enhance the service.

The four currently proposed stops are: Downsview Park, Keele and Finch station, York University station, and Steeles station between Jane St. and Keele St.

Christian Quezada, who took part in yesterday's workshop, said he was looking forward to travelling on the new subway extension if the proposal goes through.

"I bike all around the city all the time, but I can't go too far with my bike," Quezada said.

"With the new extension, I can go wherever I want."

But the 22-year-old airport employee said he will recommend that the last proposed stop, currently planned near the northern edge of York University, is built at the Jane and Finch intersection.

The last and third phase of the study is expected to conclude this fall.

The results will be sent to the TTC board for approval. The Ministry of the Environment will then have seven months to review, and approve or reject the study's findings, Middlebrook said.

York University had lobbied hard for a new subway but was less enthusiastic about a busway currently under construction and expected to open in 2006.

Middlebrook said the university administration supports the choice of York Commons as the campus stop on the line.

"When we did our study we looked at student movement, concentration and convenience," Middlebrook explained.

"The centre of the university was at the commons and so that was pretty much a slam dunk."

Middlebrook said the cancellation of a project to build a football stadium helped more than it harmed.

"For our planning purposes the stadium was inconsequential," he said.

"It actually frees up space for possible high density and commercial growth."

[hkskyline]

TTC welcomes its 25 Billionth Rider

TORONTO, May 26 /CNW/ - The TTC today named its official 25 Billionth Rider at a draw at Eglinton Station bus terminal. Parkdale-High Park MP, the Honourable Sarmite Bulte drew the winning name, Mouris Moussa, and along ith TTC Chair Howard Moscoe, escorted Mr. Moussa to push the button to become the official 25 Billionth rider since the TTC was formed in 1921.

Mr. Moussa, who was accompanied by his wife, Anritte Hanna, received a first-class VIA rail trip for two to any Canadian destination, a free TTC Metropass each month for one year and a TTC leather varsity-style jacket. His name was drawn from the 25 finalists' stories, selected from the 2,000 entries in the TTC's 25 Billionth Rider Contest. His story follows:

"Me and my wife were seniors, new immigrants to CANADA. Our first ride to Union station from Sheppard was by the subway. My wife catched last car but I missed the subway. One of the employees of the TTC watched my very bad situation. Quickly he contacted the subway driver and took me with his car to Eglinton station where my wife was waiting me. I never forget this kind help from them."

The 25 finalists each received a TTC sling pack, a corgi model collector streetcar, an official TTC T-shirt, a spring jacket and a thermal travel mug.

One billion customers ride the TTC every 30 months.

[ssiguy2]

I don't quite understand this smartcard thing.
It seems to be almost like a debit card.........but $100 then the card keeps deducting until there is no money left on it.
That part I get. What I don't understand is that if they eventually get rid of transfers then does that not mean that the card will have to be used everytime they use the bus/streetcar/subway?. If so, you would be paying a lot more.
I'm sure they have thought of this but how will that work?

[hkskyline]

The smart card can automatically charge 0 for a transfer. For example, I swipe once on the subway entering and swipe again when I leave. At the time I leave, the smart card will store an electronic transfer valid for a certain period of time so the next time I swipe as I board the bus it'll know and not deduct anything.

Technically riders will have to swipe at every boarding - bus / streetcar / subway. Current technology allows contactless swiping (ie. put the card in your bag and swipe your bag) or even embed the chip in a watch or cell phone plate to make it as convenient as possible.

[usernames suck]

I'd take the stainless steel, industrial looking subway trains (like the ones found in TO, Phili, Chicago, and NYC) over any other subway train in the world, i just love the look.

[Booyashako]

Stainless steel subways are awesome! The look is very 'big-city-ish'.

[NY1]

The trains in Toronto may not look beautiful, but believe me that they are very clean and spacious.

[samsonyuen]

There are free transfers amongst tube lines here in the London Underground, and you don't have to exit and enter again using your Oyster or Travelcard. However, on buses, there are no transfers, and you have to pay for each journey.

[Homer J. Simpson]

The transfers between surface routes to subway was impemented in TO along time ago. I won't go so far as to say it was done here first but the TTC was certainly one of the firsts systems to do this.

The smart cards are a great idea, I can't wait for them to be implemented.

[Reflex]

Some nice stations, but don't really like any trains, neither the modern ones...:|

[rise_against]

i like th e Toronto subway cars as well, how old are they now? I was looking at the monorail system in Seattle, thats sweet. Do u think that theres a chance of toronto (or any canadian city) gettin that? Maybe they could use that $200 000 000 influx? Is this a good idea?

[DrJoe]

Well most were built from 1997-present.

[rise_against]

so whats the life of these cars? 30-40 years?

[hkskyline]

Grand piano in the subway???

TORONTO, June 27 /CNW/ - Decked out in white tie and tails, seated at a candelabra-lit baby grand piano ... TTC riders traveling through Finch Station this morning will ask themselves "Could this be Liberace?"

In fact, the pianist who is wiping away TTC customers' Monday morning funk is Gordon Murray playing from his wide repertoire: from Chopin, Mozart and Beethoven to popular tunes made famous by Lionel Ritchie, Diana Ross and the Bee Gees. From 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday, June 27th, Mr. Murray will entertain in the rotunda below the TTC bus platform at Finch Station. About 90,000 customers travel through Finch Station each weekday.

Over the summer months, the TTC will provide a series of small entertainments for customers at various subway stations, on bus platforms, in TTC parking lots and on streetcars. Mr. Murray's performance is one of these events.

Mr. Murray has a Bachelor of Music degree from the University of Toronto.

[Jaye101]

I guess since I'm 13, I can't make comments on other transit systems, but I like the TTC. The Scarborough RT is REALLY ugly. It looks fake. The subways, however, look real. The idea of putting coloured stripes on the cars is impractical beacuse it would mean that the TTC could not move wagons between the diffrent lines.

I find the beauty in the SRT, only the little portion around Kennedy is ugly.

[addisonwesley]

I agree with the majority of the Toronto forumers here, the subway cars are much more 'subway' looking. The SRT and other system trains with all the paint and such look as though they belong in an amusement park or world's fair. Rounding or 'smoothing' the front of a subway train is such a stupid idea. It's a subway, not a monorail, and besides - here in Toronto, the only thing that designates the front of the train is a conductor's cabin. This way, trains can be hooked up without a problem. The MTA in New York is overhauling the entire subway system, or so I've heard. Their are automatic station and direction announcements at every stop, but their seats are as hard as plastic now <-- DiscoveryChannel.

[hkskyline]

TTC to get new, tubular subways
Design will allow passengers to move between cars
James Cowan
National Post
20 October 2005

Toronto transit commissioners yesterday endorsed a new design for subway trains that will allow passengers to walk between cars, offer more standing room and break down less often.

The TTC needs 234 new cars by 2011 to replace its already 15-year-old fleet.

The transit system wants to replace its current T-1 model with new cars that link into an uninterrupted tube. Passengers will be able to walk from one end of the train to the other along a single centre aisle.

The open design tends to give riders a sense of security and improves air circulation, according to Rick Cornacchia, deputy manager of subway operations.

"From the customer environment perspective, this is a significant improvement," Mr. Cornacchia said.

In addition, the open model allows the trains to carry 8% more passengers without sacrificing seats.

"Currently, we're at maximum capacity on the Yonge line," he said. "So if we wanted to put another train on in the morning, we couldn't do that because of our signalling system."

Linking the cars together also eliminates the need to have redundant systems on the train, meaning fewer things can go wrong.

"There's a whole bunch of equipment you can just eliminate from the systems. It's a much simpler design," Mr. Cornacchia said.

The subway currently experiences 900 minutes of delays a year. Based on the models of New York and Hong Kong, the TTC projects the new cars will only suffer 300 minutes of delays each year.

The trains will also be designed with new safety features, including smoke alarms and intercoms that allow passengers to speak directly with the driver. In addition, the emergency exits will each be fitted with either an extendable ladder or ramp to make evacuations easier.

Councillor Olivia Chow said she had seen similar trains in Hong Kong.

"They are very, very efficient and beautiful. I was totally jealous when I saw them," she said.

TTC chairman Howard Moscoe said the system will ask riders to help tweak the final design of the trains.

"I've heard suggestions from skylights on the train to changing the way the poles are placed," Mr. Moscoe said. "I'm not saying they're all rational suggestions."

Last month, the TTC rejected a plan to install video screens on subway cars, quashing the proposal before a three-month pilot project could begin.

Built the same size as the overhead advertisements displayed on subway cars, the silent screens would have displayed the time, weather forecast and news along with ads. Plans called for the TTC to be able to override the system to show information during transit delays or emergencies.

TTC commissioners voted 4-3 against the plan.

Councillor Joe Mihevc said the screens were too intrusive. "If you do a study of TTC riders, they do one of three activities: They read, they talk or they enjoy their quiet time," Mr. Mihevc said in September. "Moving images are a distraction from the culture we have on the TTC."

[ssiguy2]

Any pics?
Toronto is getting a crap load of money for the TTC from the feds/prov over the next two years so it sounds like the ability to replace the current fleet with the new trains is quite do-able. As for those new streetcars................

[salvius]

^ they're hardly getting a 'crapload.' I'm waiting until the province and feds actually commit; if they do, then I'll celebrate.

The new subway cars are not the nicest looking, but there are politics at play here.

The TTC has not committed to the new streetcars. The model shown is one of the possibilities, but it's certainly not a done deal.

[addisonwesley]

God damnit, we're getting those London Underground style trains, eck.

^ they're hardly getting a 'crapload.' I'm waiting until the province and feds actually commit; if they do, then I'll celebrate. No, wait till you're actually using them, then celebrate.

[DrJoe]

God damnit, we're getting those London Underground style trains, eck.

What makes you say this??? London is forced to run tiny little trains, Toronto does not have to and has no reason to.

[canuckbanana]

God damnit, we're getting those London Underground style trains, eck.

Actually, if these are the Hong Kong style subway cars, they are far superior (in terms of comfort) to the London underground cars. First, they are not as cramped. Second, the London underground trains (at least the lines I've been on) are not one continuous tube like the ones in Hong Kong.

Hong Kong's MTR is gorgeous. If there is a system that the TTC wants to model itself after, Hong Kong is not a bad choice!

That being said though, I'm not going to get my hopes up :|

[zivan56]

Charming. Looks like a carbon copy of Detroit's People Mover trains.

Looks like a carbon copy of Skytrain MKI :jk:

[ssiguy2]

Ya, those MK1 are pretty awful. Very small, thin, small doors, dark, and loud.
The MK11 are light years ahead.
Roomy, the seats are more comfortable, they are articulated so the crowds can be more evenly spread out, much quieter, much brighter with more and larger window, wider and much better doors, far superior climate control and they look a hell of a lot better too.
You would hardly know they are used for the same thing

[addisonwesley]

The subway cars we have now are the roomiest. I prefer the cars' straight walls as opposed to those curved or 'leaning in' ones.

Looks like a carbon copy of Skytrain MKI An exact copy of the SRT cars. Very tiny, and cramped.

[zivan56]

Ya, those MK1 are pretty awful. Very small, thin, small doors, dark, and loud.
The MK11 are light years ahead.
Roomy, the seats are more comfortable, they are articulated so the crowds can be more evenly spread out, much quieter, much brighter with more and larger window, wider and much better doors, far superior climate control and they look a hell of a lot better too.
You would hardly know they are used for the same thing

I actually prefer them over the new ones, as the new ones are cramped in terms of leg room for knees, the seats are very hard and bad for your back, and are much more pleasant when heated (the MKII's are hotter than a sauna during the winter). Although, I guess during the rush to/from home the new ones are better.


The subway cars we have now are the roomiest. I prefer the cars' straight walls as opposed to those curved or 'leaning in' ones.

I don't really notice the walls curving in on the MKII cars, but it does make it look nicer and modern (the square design went out of fashion some time ago), but subways aren't really concerned about image.


An exact copy of the SRT cars. Very tiny, and cramped.

They are all the same Bombardier MK1 cars. Again, whenever I take it everybody that gets on gets a seat, but it probably would be during rush hour.

[PhilippeMtl]

Cars are very large and spacious compare to Montreal subway. But I don't really like station architecture and style.

[raymond_tung88]

Well, all I can say for Toronto's subway is that it is clean and efficient enough. North America isn't big on subways (except New York). IMO, Toronto's got a decent network of urban infrastructure. The only problem is that it takes WAY too long for Toronto to build even a five station subway line (Sheppard Line). Anyways, we're going to have too few subway lines for a more 'spread-out' city.

[hkskyline]

TTC Ridership Booming

TORONTO, Oct. 27 /CNW/ - TTC ridership is up almost 3 percent over the same period last year.

TTC expects to carry at least 427 million riders by year end ... a 9 percent increase over ridership in 1999 when the TTC carried 393 million.

October saw record sales of Metropasses - 202,000 passes in one month, a 50 percent increase in sales over October 1999.

- 70 percent of Torontonians have taken the TTC within the last 12 months
- 50 percent of Torontonians take the TTC at least once a week

[Jaye101]

^^ Muhahaha, Montreal... Watch out, Tdot's on a rampage.

[VansTripp]

Wow, Subway station in Toronto is nice and modern archiculture that like in LA subway station.

[addisonwesley]

Two thirds of them do not have modern architecture - they're from the 60s and 70s. They also look the same. And yes, there are a few modern looking ones, just as there are almost anywhere else in the world there is a subway.

[hkskyline]

TTC figures show 10 million jump in ridership
CTV.ca News Staff

Bus lines, streetcars and subway lines are running at full capacity during the morning rush hour thanks to a spike in ridership, according to the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC).

The TTC's statistics show 10 million more passengers are using public transit over this time last year.

Officials are downplaying the increase.

Spokesperson Marilyn Bolton told CTV.ca by the end of the year the TTC will have had 428 million rides, up from 418 million at this time in 2004.

"While we're very pleased with the increase it's not astronomical," she said. "We're not going around screaming about how amazing we are, it's less than a three per cent increase, but we're very happy. It's better than a decrease."

Bolton said the main reason for the spike is the transferable Metropass introduced in September, which enables more than one person to use the monthly or weekly pass for different rides.

"The transferable Metropass is something we've been talking about for years, and when we introduced it back in September people latched onto it," Bolton said. "So I think perhaps the best news for us here is that it's brought us some extra ridership."

Other factors include a better economy, which means more people are working in Toronto, and higher gasoline prices which can make vehicles too expensive to run.

Bolton downplayed an earlier report that suggested possible capacity problems caused by extra riders. Some trains on the Bloor line are crowded as early as 6 a.m.

"We have extra capacity on the subway, and we've been getting replacement buses and extra buses, so we feel that current capacity looks good," she said.

[CrazyCanuck]

Thats good news to hear, but I can't help but wonder how residential increase around ttc stops is helping ridership.

[hkskyline]

Littered with ghosts of subways that never came to be
5 December 2005
The Globe and Mail

I carry around a vision in my head of diagonal subway lines, stretching across Toronto from north Scarborough to south Etobicoke and from Rexdale to the Beaches, just as the Bakerloo, Piccadilly and Victoria lines slice across London.

It would certainly look nice on a TTC map.

But it wouldn't make sense. Most of the places those lines would go are just too spread out to support a subway system. For subways to make sense economically (inasmuch as something that is guaranteed to lose money can make sense), you need dense urban environments, where there are lots of potential passengers and lots of workplaces they need to reach.

Which is why the TTC's recently approved proposal to extend the Spadina line north to York University needs to be looked at very closely, if the city ever persuades Queen's Park and whomever is in charge in Ottawa to come up with their share of the $1.4-billion cost.

It's not necessarily a bad place for a subway, to be sure.

The university, which has 50,000 students, sees more than 1,000 buses roar onto its campus each day.

The proposed northernmost station, at Steeles Avenue, would become a monster hub for York Region commuters, taking pressure off Finch station and the Yonge line, which at rush hour is almost at capacity.

But there is little else there at the moment, between Downsview and York, to warrant a pricey subway. Without the Rolling Stones, Downsview Park is still just a big, empty field. If the subway extension happens, TTC and city officials will be betting on future high-density development in the area — condos, offices — to generate enough riders to justify an expensive 90-kilometre-an-hour, publicly funded underground train.

That's the same bet the city made with the Sheppard subway, and it is taking a lot longer than expected to pay off for the TTC, transit consultant Ed Levy says.

Nobody made sure that development along Sheppard would be transit friendly, he says. Most of the people moving into the area's condos have parking spots and cars and jobs in York Region that pay well, Mr. Levy says, leaving the Sheppard carrying far fewer people than it should.

Mr. Levy points out that the TTC has long had similar trouble filling the rest of the Spadina line's seats, thanks to NIMBY (not in my backyard) opposition to higher-density development, as well as spineless politicians and a tax structure that favours suburban sprawl. In fact, according to the TTC, every subway station built in Toronto after 1978 has failed to generate the expected densities.

“You are still seeing these single-family homes around Glencairn station,” he says. “It's ludicrous.”

TTC chief general manager Rick Ducharme says he will push governments to make a firm commitment to ensure that developers are bound to produce enough transit-friendly buildings — mid-rise or high-rise — to justify the Spadina line if it is given final approval and is built.

“I would hope that the province and the feds would have conditions on it. The low-density industrial area we have now, if that's all you're going to do and put a station there, why would you build it?”

Regardless, despite the York line's momentum, it may not be the next subway line Toronto builds. The TTC has several other ideas, each with its supporters.

Mr. Levy wants the Sheppard line extended west, where it would connect with the Spadina line and give Toronto a true rapid-transit network, as well as take the pressure off the Yonge line.

Then there is Scarborough, where local politicians are also braying for a Bloor-Danforth subway extension to replace the overcrowded Scarborough RT, whose current crop of vehicles is set to die in 10 or 15 years. Others want the Bloor line to head west into Mississauga.

Freer-flowing government money certainly has the TTC dreaming big again.

But this city remains littered with the ghosts of subways that never were.

The Eglinton subway is just an $83-million hole, filled in with sand in 1995. An underground streetcar line along Queen Street was approved in a citywide plebiscite not that long ago — New Year's Day, 1946. We are still waiting.

[Jaye101]

Makes me sad.

-Eglinton Line
-Bloor Subway Extensions
-Sheppard Line Extensions
-Spadina Line Extension
-Yonge Line Extension
-Downtown Relief

We can dream.

http://usera.imagecave.com/Jaye/FutureSubwayv.3.GIF

[hkskyline]

TTC Holiday Season Schedule

TORONTO, ON--(CCNMatthews - Dec. 19, 2005) - This holiday season avoid downtown driving hassles, as well as the high cost of parking, by taking The Better Way. Here are service changes that reflect TTC riders' holiday travel demands from Monday, December 19th, 2005 to Monday, January 2nd, 2006. On New Year's Eve, most subway trains leave downtown at about 2:30 a.m. The specific details are below:

Monday, December 19 to Thursday, December 22

* Regular service
* Subway and most routes start at 6:00 a.m.
* Reduced peak period service on 191 Highway 27 Rocket, 44 Kipling South and 134 Progress

Friday, December 23

* Regular morning peak service, reduced afternoon peak period service
* Subway and most routes start at 6:00 a.m.
* Afternoon peak period from 12:00 noon to 5:00 p.m.
* Reduced peak period service on 191 Highway 27 Rocket, 44 Kipling South and 134 Progress

Saturday, December 24 - Christmas Eve

* Saturday service
* Subway and most routes start at 6:00 a.m.

Sunday, December 25 - Christmas Day

* Sunday service.
* Subway and most routes start at 9:00 a.m.

Monday, December 26 - Boxing Day and Tuesday, December 27

* Saturday service
* Subway and most routes start at 6:00 a.m.
* 196 York University Rocket cancelled

Wednesday, December 28 and Thursday, December 29

* Regular service.
* Subway and most routes start at 6:00 a.m.
* Reduced peak period service on 191 Highway 27 Rocket, 44 Kipling South and 134 Progress

Friday, December 30

* Regular morning peak period service, reduced afternoon peak period service.
* Subway and most routes start at 6:00 a.m.
* Reduced peak period service on the 191 Highway 27 Rocket, 44 Kipling South and 134 Progress

Saturday, December 31 - New Year's Eve

* Saturday service extended until later than usual.
* Subway and most routes start at 6:00 a.m.
* Most bus and streetcar routes with late-evening service continue until 3:00 a.m.
* Extra trips on all Blue Night routes between 3:00 a.m. and 4:00 a.m.
* Last trains on the Yonge-University-Spadina Subway leave Union Station at 2:31 a.m. for
Finch Station, and 2:36 a.m. for Downsview Station.
* Last trains on the Bloor-Danforth Subway leave Bloor-Yonge Station at 2:38 a.m. for Kipling Station, and at 2:38 a.m. for Kennedy Station.
* Last train on the Scarborough RT leaves Kennedy Station at 3:04 a.m. for McCowan Station.
* Last train on the Sheppard Subway leaves Sheppard-Yonge Station at 2:58 a.m. for Don Mills Station.

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - New Year's Day

* Sunday service
* Subway and most routes start at 9:00 a.m.

Monday, January 2, 2006

* Saturday service. Subway and most routes start at 6:00 a.m.
* 196 York University Rocket cancelled

From December 26th, 2005 to Monday, January 6th, 2006, for just $8.00 a day, a TTC Day Pass provides unlimited travel all day long for group of up to six people, maximum two adults over 19.

For more information on holiday transit schedules, the public should call 416 393-4636 (INFO), seven days a week, or log on to www.ttc.ca.

[jeicow]

How can Vaughan be the first 905 city to get a subway station? I guess this is TOs way of giving the finger to Missy/Richmond Hill/Markham.

[Bertez]

^^Naw, that's just his "dream" TTC map.....but the TTC first priorities aren't to the 905 region....so any extention into the heart of the 905 won't be seen in a long time.

[mopc]

Toront´s system does indeed seem a little too small.

[Jaye101]

Yeah... But I do beleive Vaughan will be the first. There pushing so hard for it.

[mike_feng90]

I cant believe the incompleted Sheppard-subway took 8 years for those 5 stations!!!!

[samsonyuen]

How can Vaughan be the first 905 city to get a subway station? I guess this is TOs way of giving the finger to Missy/Richmond Hill/Markham.

I think because there is more continuous "density" north of the current termini for the Yonge and Spadina lines than west of the Bloor line. I don't think we'll see a station to Sherway, which is on the edge of Toronto.

[rise_against]

Vote me PM and i promise that "dream map" will be reality! ;)

[Skybean]

http://static.flickr.com/41/79661346_86f9cdfce6_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/43/79506857_ff92e215c8_b.jpg

[hkskyline]

TCF Subway Station Revitalization Project Gets $1 Million Boost From Budd Sugarman Foundation
$1.75 Raised to Date for Museum Station Renovations
16 February 2006
Canada NewsWire

TORONTO, Feb. 16 /CNW/ -- TORONTO, Feb. 16 /CNW/ - The Toronto Community Foundation (TCF) today announced it has received a gift of $1 million from the Budd Sugarman Foundation for TCF's "Arts on Track" initiative to revitalize three Toronto subway stations.

"This generous donation from the Budd Sugarman Foundation adds tremendous momentum to the initiative of other seed funders. It shows their transformational vision for Toronto's public transit, arts, environment and tourism," said TCF President and CEO Anne Swarbrick.

"We are thrilled to support this project in Budd's memory because it represents the perfect marriage of his two passions: the Arts and the City of Toronto," said Gerald Soloway, Trustee of the Budd Sugarman Foundation. "It creates a gateway between key Toronto cultural institutions located above ground with the below ground platforms through which thousands of adults and children pass everyday."

Mr. Sugarman was known as "the unofficial mayor of Yorkville" because of his efforts to preserve heritage buildings and architectural landmarks in the area. Upon his death a year and a half ago, Mr. Sugarman left a large portion of his estate to the Budd Sugarman Foundation. One of the directives given to its trustees was that he wished to make a significant contribution to the Arts and the City of Toronto.

TCF's "Arts on Track" project will revitalize Museum, Osgoode and St. Patrick subway stations to boost cultural tourism and public transit in Toronto. The platform levels of the three subway stations will be renovated to provide transit riders with a visual experience linking them to the major cultural institutions in the area, such as the Royal Ontario Museum, Art Gallery of Ontario, Ontario College of Art and Design and the Four Seasons Centre for the Performing Arts, which will be the home of the National Ballet of Canada and the Canadian Opera Company.

"The Budd Sugarman Foundation donation shows that our city's leaders share our vision of a stronger Toronto with a unique and world-class transit system linked to its outstanding cultural institutions," said Mayor David Miller. "I encourage others to support this project, which represents an important partnership in the City of Toronto."

Today's donation brings the early commitments raised by TCF for the project to $1.75 million. An estimated $4.5 million is required to complete renovations at Museum Station, where work will begin later this year and be completed in 2007.

The Toronto Transit Commission has endorsed "Arts on Track" and provided $1.5 million towards the total cost of the initiative, as part of a matching program to help TCF leverage private contributions.

TCF is working with its philanthropic donors, governments, the cultural institutions and Toronto's business community to gather the financial support to complete the project. Donations and gifts to support the "Arts on Track" project can be made through the Toronto Community Foundation.

"What impresses us is the role of the Toronto Community Foundation as the honest broker that creates an effective interface between private and public funders. TCF helps private philanthropists who want to make Toronto a better place, but who find it daunting to find a place to start," said Jason Soloway, advisor to the Budd Sugarman Foundation, who works for the Andrea and Charles Bronfman Philanthropies in New York.

"Toronto's leaders in business, tourism, culture and public transit are invited to join us in support of this project. Its economic, cultural tourism and environmental impact will provide lasting benefit for the whole community," Ms. Swarbrick said. "This project represents an investment in public spaces that will substantially improve Toronto's quality of life."

TCF is a charitable organization dedicated to making Toronto the best place to live, work, learn and grow. TCF helps philanthropic citizens and families establish endowment funds for charitable giving and identifies community opportunities to ensure that grants have the greatest impact on improving Toronto's quality of life.

Paul Howard, Vice President, Communications & Marketing, Toronto Community Foundation, (416) 921-2035 ext. 232

[hkskyline]

TTC to reconsider controversial seat layout
Second look prompted by recent arrests of 17 terrorism suspects in Toronto area
18 July 2006
The Globe and Mail

The recent arrests of 17 terrorism suspects in the Toronto area, along with deadly bombings on rail transit around the world, have led the Toronto Transit Commission to take another look at a controversial seat layout for its new subway cars.

Called perimeter seating, the proposed arrangement would line the sides of the next generation of subway cars with bench-like seats, removing the nooks and crannies of the current layout where, TTC officials say, terrorists could more easily hide bombs. Common on new subway systems in Europe and Asia, the layout was panned when first proposed in March to the nine-member commission of city councillors that oversees the TTC. Howard Moscoe, chairman of the TTC, said then that the change would turn Toronto's subway vehicles into “cattle cars.” The design of the new cars went ahead without it.

But the TTC's acting chief general manager, Gary Webster, said the TTC felt duty bound to reintroduce the idea after the arrests of 17 terrorism suspects in the Toronto area last month. He wants the commission, at its meeting tomorrow, to reconsider perimeter seating. “When the events occurred, the recent arrests in June occurred in Toronto . . . that was the final issue for us,” Mr. Webster said yesterday, adding that the TTC hoped to get more input from the public on the proposed change.

He said police, fire and ambulance workers favour perimeter seating, because it is easier to move through subway cars quickly in an emergency. The cars are also easier to evacuate than the current fleet, Mr. Webster said.

The cars would have a little more standing room and would be easier to navigate, he said. And if done right, he added, passengers wouldn't feel like animals: “We don't want a cattle car in Toronto.”

But the TTC's outspoken chairman remains opposed. Mr. Moscoe said yesterday he isn't convinced that making it easier to spot packages would make the transit system any safer, given that the TTC finds 30,000 unattended parcels on the system every year.

“So, we make packages visible, what then? Everyone can see the bomb explode?”

He predicted a public outcry if the TTC installs perimeter seating.

“If they need to look into nooks and crannies, put up mirrors,” Mr. Moscoe said. “But to make thousands of passenger rides uncomfortable and essentially degrade the system, for alleged reasons of safety, unless you can actually do something about safety, means nothing.”

Terrorists have targeted commuter rail lines or subway systems in Madrid, London and, most recently, Mumbai. However, the TTC was not identified as a target in the arrests of the Toronto suspects.

Toronto's plan to buy 234 subway cars, at a cost of up to $705-million, has also been controversial because of the commission's decision to enter exclusive talks with Bombardier to build the cars at its Thunder Bay plant without seeking bids from other firms.

Mr. Moscoe and Mayor David Miller defend the deal as a way to protect jobs in Ontario. Several right-leaning critics on city council have demanded that the contract be opened up to competition after German-based competitor Siemens said it could save the city at least $100-million, partly by building the cars in China.

The first new cars, to replace the chunk of the fleet that dates from the 1970s, are supposed to go into service in 2009. Talks with Bombardier on the design of the car, extended after a six-month deadline came and went, are now up against a tight timeline as the TTC hopes to have the project approved at city council's September meeting — the last chance before the Nov. 13 election.

Also tomorrow, Mr. Moscoe, a key ally of Toronto's left-leaning mayor, is expected to face a no-confidence motion in his leadership of the TTC.

The call for Mr. Moscoe to step down, which is expected to fail, comes in the wake of the illegal strike that shut down the TTC in May and the abrupt departure of TTC chief general manager Rick Ducharme.

[Skybean]

Nice. I think the TTC should take design cues from the MTR - the epitome of efficiency :)

[kashyap3]

ttc should expand its subway or build other forms of mass transit, like the scarbough rt
if subways aren't a reality, look at other rail options

[hkskyline]

TTC turns down perimeter seating
Commission rebuffs engineers' request to consider terrorism in planning new cars
JEFF GRAY
With a report from Oliver Moore
20 July 2006
The Globe and Mail

The Toronto Transit Commission rebuffed a request from its engineers yesterday to consider the threat of terrorism in deciding on the seating layout of the next generation of subway cars.

Plans for so-called perimeter seating, which would see the walls of the new subway cars lined with benches, were dismissed earlier this year by TTC chairman Howard Moscoe and other commissioners. Mr. Moscoe likened the design to a “cattle car.”

Yesterday, TTC staff asked them to reconsider, arguing that perimeter seating would eliminate the nooks and crannies of the current layout and make it more difficult to conceal a bomb.

Mr. Moscoe and other commissioners said they doubted whether the seat layout would make Toronto any safer from terrorists.

“We're going to make the car a safe as possible, but we're not doing it at the expense of the riding public,” he said.

Even as the commission considered the relevance of terrorism to the TTC, the bomb squad was busy on Dundas Street West where police cordoned off the normally busy block on the north side of the Eaton Centre for more than two hours at midday.

“It was just a suspicious package, there was no threat called in,” said 52 Division's Staff-Sergeant Alex Belgrade.

The item turned out to be harmless: A non-descript pair of dark trousers falling from a yellow No Frills bag as it was lifted off the ground by the bomb squad's robot. Traffic was allowed through the area again shortly after 1:30 p.m.

“The pants were probably entered as property,” Staff-Sergeant Belgrade said.

Meanwhile, Mr. Moscoe survived an attempt to knock him from his post as commissioners voted down a no-confidence motion accusing him of meddling in the TTC's troubled labour relations.

The motion from commissioners Bill Saundercook and Mark Grimes urged the TTC to dump Mr. Moscoe for interfering in relations between the union and management before and after the illegal strike that paralyzed the system on May 29.

TTC chief general manager Rick Ducharme resigned shortly after, accusing Mr. Moscoe of “political interference” in labour relations.

The motion failed 5-3, after commissioners loyal to the outspoken chairman — a key ally of Mayor David Miller — voted to keep him in his post.

After the vote, Mr. Grimes stood up and resigned as a commissioner, saying he could no longer serve with Mr. Moscoe as chair.

“Obviously my voice is not going to be heard,” Mr. Grimes said.

Also at yesterday's meeting, the commission members voted to cover $1,189 in travel expenses for commissioner Sandra Bussin, an ally of Mr. Moscoe's.

She flew back from a personal trip to Florida to attend an emergency TTC meeting called to deal with Mr. Ducharme's resignation.

[samsonyuen]

I like the permiter seating. It lets more people in the car (or more room for each person).

[edubejar]

I've only read so far the first messages on this thread, which I entered bc I'm visiting Toronto for the first time and I'm all about seeing things in advance about Toronto. Some Toronto members need to calm down about comments regarding the Toronto subway cars which some didn't like. While it's true that the primary purpose of a subway train is to carry people from point A to point B, there is nothing wrong with aspiring to a nicer, more sleak look. I'm POSITIVE that most people from Toronto (as well as NYC and Chicago) would prefer to have nicer, sleaker looking trains if they could. And just because it runs undergound doesn't mean that it can't look better...there is ALWAYS room for improvement.

[monkeyronin]

King Station as planned in the 1920s.
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/40/kingstationasplanned800ey9.jpg

The proposed map from the same era.
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8360/proposedsubwaysmap800rf5.jpg

Early perimeter seating as it would have appeared on one of the older trains. looks good, but why so narrow?
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8760/ttc15hc0.jpg

The old Gloucesters.
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3977/eglinln7.gif

Back in the 70s when the silver metallic train design first came into use.
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2153/grnwd006xj2.gif

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1334/yons004xz9.gif

[Skybean]

Surprisingly this is not too far off from what most stations look like today...
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/40/kingstationasplanned800ey9.jpg

[degnaw]

Early perimeter seating as it would have appeared on one of the older trains. looks good, but why so narrow?
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8760/ttc15hc0.jpg

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that the scarborough rt?

[Smelser]

"The RT cars are indeed a piece of shite, no idea how anyone can like them."

Well, their linear induction motors and driverless automation was a novelty back in the day I guess (and this was a compromise from the mag lev technology the Ontario government was working on). You should check out what some of the Vancouverite forumers have to say about it (they have the excact same thing)...they are calling it "the most advanced transit system in the world" LOL!!!

KGB

I realize that this comment was made several years ago, but I just noticed this thread today and couldn't help myself. This is so very true, Vancouverites live in total denial about Skytrain's capabilities, and that of LRT generally.

Here we got the automated LRT system designed by UTDC, a once-upon-a-time Ontario Govt Crown Corp as Skytrain in time for the 1986 Expo, which was officially a transportation exhibition! Why was this system chosen, and why was it put into service over a nearly 30km distance from downtown Vancouver to North Surrey. The answer of course is politics. Premier Bill Bennett had won the 1979 provincial election by a narrow margin, and wanted to secure his position by hiring new, highly talented political operatives. These he obtained from the Ontario Conservatives, the Big Blue Machine, in the persons of Jerry Lampert and Patrick Kinsella. In exchange, the BC Govt decided, over objections from local officials, to purchase the Ontario Crown Corp's ALRT system, which to that point had no significant sales.

Bennett's Science Minister, UBC Professor Pat McGeer also liked the fact that the trains would be automated. There would be no bus drivers who could go on strike. It was the same decision making criteria McGeer postulated in touting a fixed link to Vancouver Island, there would be no ferry workers who could go on strike. The fixed link project was later shown in BC Govt studies to require tolls of around $200, instead of the current $50 or so on the BC Ferries. Here was another, explicitly political rationale for choosing the Ontario ALRT equipment.

The Toronto Transit Commission was leery of the system and never let it get beyond one small spur line. And I understand that the Scarborourgh RT line does have drivers, because in Ontarion they didn't want to spook the riders by asking them board pilotless craft.

I hope this will help spur discussion, but I have to go now.

[LordMandeep]

Vancouver is a nice city but even having a small highway would have solved all of the city's traffic problems.

[Jayayess1190]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_subway_and_RT

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8826/ttcsubwayrtmap2015xr6.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/spadina_extension/prefered_alignment.htm

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/2121/preferaligaprilnq4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5511.shtml

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/333/nstartistconceptmf9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This artists conception, taken from the TTC’s website, illustrates one feature the mockup car was unable to encapsulate. The proposed trains are to feature cabs which stretch the width of the car. The TTC official on duty admitted that a number of people had complained about the loss of the “railfan” window allowing passengers to look out the front of the train.

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/7681/subway551106vp7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Another shot of the gangway effect. Photo by Gordon Keith.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/251/subway551108ou6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This image, taken from the TTC website, illustrates possible internal colour schemes that passengers could choose between. Scheme 1 is obviously closest to that of the T-1, and the internal appearance of the mock-up. The other schemes do not match the internal configuration of the mockup or feature only unpopular side-facing seats. One wonders which scheme passengers favoured.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4858/subway551109xm1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Another feature of that the mock-up car was not able to simulate was the evacuation ramp out of the front of the train, allowing passengers, including those on wheelchairs, to quickly reach track level.

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1928/subway551105es0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

One of the bells and whistles displayed on the mockup is this LED version of the TTC’s subway map. Coloured lights will tell riders where they are on the network, where they are going, and where the doors will open at the next stop.

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/8558/photo5ry8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The red X indicates that doors will open on the opposite side. The green arrow indicates the doors will open on this side.

[monkeyronin]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that the scarborough rt?

hmm, I guess it would be now that you mention it.

[Skybean]

http://static.flickr.com/37/125385844_5140404ede_b.jpg

Regarding "bells and whistles" of animated signboard maps: Many modern subway systems have had this for years.

[degnaw]

That is a lot of people...

How would everyone even fit on the train (I am in favor of perimeter seating, as it makes it less of a cattle car for those who can't get a seat), even if everyone was standing? how many trains would have to go by (which might already be full) before everyone in the picture could get on?

[yin_yang]

That is a lot of people...

How would everyone even fit on the train (I am in favor of perimeter seating, as it makes it less of a cattle car for those who can't get a seat), even if everyone was standing? how many trains would have to go by (which might already be full) before everyone in the picture could get on?

that's probably an isolated incident...i've lived here for 10 years and i've only seen it like that a few times. but to answer your question, if the train cars were empty, it would probably take 2 or 3 of them to get everybody on...

[hkskyline]

That's where platform screen doors can prevent people from being pushed off the platform inadvertently.

[KGB]

"How would everyone even fit on the train, even if everyone was standing? "


Theoretically, the answer would probably be just one. A T1 car has a crush load of 315 passengers, so a six-car train can hold nearly 1900 people...I don't think there are that many people in that pic.

Bloor/Yonge is the major subway transfer station between two major lines downtown....it is unlikely the coming train would be empty, but generally, most people get off the train at that station. And the platform would generally never be that crowded...a T! train will come every minute or two. It only gets like that when there is a delay on the sytem, or perhaps a very big event going on around there, which ends and everybody pours on the subway at the same time (like the Pride Parade or something).







KGB

[Smelser]

Vancouver is a nice city but even having a small highway would have solved all of the city's traffic problems.

I am not sure which "small highway" you mean, but I do understand that AADT volumes at Port Mann are in the range of 120 to 130 thousand compared to over 400 thousand on sections of Hwy 401 in Toronto.

I don't believe freeways alone would solve all traffic and transportation problems. Rather, a combination of freeways that include HOV lanes and express buses, heavy commuter rail of the GO or WCExpress variety running at improved speeds, and some rationally designed LRT lines are indicated. The GVRD and the BC Govt have refused to build the freeway element beyond a minimalist amount, have also seriously underplayed the commuter rail element, and instead have squandered billions on vastly overdone LRT lines that are too slow to be appropriate for the longer distances they are assigned to travel, but at the same time, by being elevated, have less impact on street level commercial activity that would a Calgary C-train arrangement.

It's an entirely suboptimal configuration arrived at by inter-governmental and inter-municipal log-rolling and politics, and conflicting irrational emotions, a desire to avoid the really big expenses of heavy rail and serious freeways, while at the same time being quite prepared to spend lavishly making an intermediate level system look like a major system. To stay out of trouble with the voters, the politicians, both local and provincial, rely on BC and especially Vancouver voters' smug, insular attitude, their endless willingness to be falsely flattered and told in cheesy government TV commercials that this is "the best place on Earth!", that they've done something really unique and special here that no other major city could possibly do. Which is partly true in a sense, although not a fit subject for bragging, really.

[kashyap3]

well eventhough the ttc subway is quite extensive, it needs to expand, build a ring rail or something that provides better connectivity to the suburbs or isolated regions of toronto

[mr.x]

Bloor

http://static.flickr.com/37/125385844_5140404ede_b.jpg

Regarding "bells and whistles" of animated signboard maps: Many modern subway systems have had this for years.

If I were up in front, I would be very very ver scared. Man, those station platforms need to be lengthened or widened and on top of that install platform screen doors.

[Bertez]

^^hmm...is it just me, or is the Bloor Line sign at the top reversed??

[DonQui]

^^hmm...is it just me, or is the Bloor Line sign at the top reversed??
I would imagine a that it is a photo that needs to be flipped around on its mirror image. :D

[Skybean]

I would imagine a that it is a photo that needs to be flipped around on its mirror image. :D


Close but the shot was taken at a mirror. Anyways, as mentioned earlier Toronto stations rarely have this type of overcrowding. Even if this were the case, we would not have the money to install barriers or to extend the platform.

If you walk aroud some of the older stations such as Finch, you can see leaking water and basically stations falling apart.

[samsonyuen]

That picture is quite crazy! Ther emust have been a stoppage of service that day or something.

[kashyap3]

well rush hour is quite busy but after that, there is virtually no traffic

[degnaw]

I dont know if this is a stupid question, but what is a hydro corridor? why is there no development there? it obviously can support ttc commuter lots and facilities, and they seem to be planning rail lines along it...

[Homer J. Simpson]

^Immagine if you will high tention hydro lines with developement on either sides. That is a hydro corridor, just power lines that cut accross the land.

The problem with placing PT and ajacent facilities on them is the same as placing them over other ROWs, that is that people do not like to walk into the hinterlands to use them unless there is some sort of development around the stations.

[degnaw]

^Immagine if you will high tention hydro lines with developement on either sides. That is a hydro corridor, just power lines that cut accross the land.

The problem with placing PT and ajacent facilities on them is the same as placing them over other ROWs, that is that people do not like to walk into the hinterlands to use them unless there is some sort of development around the stations.

Thanks, i was thinking of water pipes when i first saw the words "hydro corridor"...

although im still confused about the problem thing, the commuter lots take up the entire width of the corridor so wouldnt it be surrounded by development?

[elkram]

Toronto stations rarely have this type of overcrowding.
That's not how I remember that network -- twice as frequent service than here, twice as many people, twice as large cars -- I'd swear its the busiest network I've been on out of a couple of dozen I've ridden -- the number of passengers in the shot doesn't surprise me, rush hours.

Cheers,
Chris

[Jaye101]

This is a hydro corridor in Brampton, the one's in Toronto aren't this wide.
http://worksongs.com/blogpics/brampton_trainwires_col.jpg

[monkeyronin]

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8874/154526377799c348985byw9.jpg

[harsh1802]

^^
Lovely.

[Derryn-Hinch]

The whole subway system looks like a relic from the 50s.It's blandness matches the Toronto skyline.

[p5archit]

We refer to Hydro as electricity- probably because we get about 5-10% of our energy from there..makes sense doesn't it (sarcastic).

That said, there have been quite a few ideas about running transit down those so-called corridors and they are and possibly will be of more benifit later, that is when the corridors towers come down and we bury the lines- then we can talk transit and development.

p5

[thryve]

The whole subway system looks like a relic from the 50s.It's blandness matches the Toronto skyline.

Thank God... it's called timelessness.

[samsonyuen]

^^I don't agree with it being a relic. What you see as bland, I see as a dependable and reliable service that trades flashiness for functionality.

[salvius]

The whole subway system looks like a relic from the 50s.It's blandness matches the Toronto skyline.

Oh brother... That's two posts where I've found you spewing nonsense. I guess we can be like Melbourne and not have one.

[degnaw]

We refer to Hydro as electricity- probably because we get about 5-10% of our energy from there..makes sense doesn't it (sarcastic).
um... its actually 70%...

Back on topic, the hydro corridors have elevated power lines anyways, so is there anything hindering a rail line through it? or are people afraid of getting shocked? of course, the southernmost hydro corridor in toronto proper runs along finch, which is probably too north for a subway line, but the corridor continues to Mississauga city center, so it has some potential.

[Gil]

We refer to Hydro as electricity- probably because we get about 5-10% of our energy from there..makes sense doesn't it (sarcastic).

That said, there have been quite a few ideas about running transit down those so-called corridors and they are and possibly will be of more benifit later, that is when the corridors towers come down and we bury the lines- then we can talk transit and development.

p5

Degnaw, hydro as a term for electricity is a Canadianism, Americans refer to them (hydro lines) as power lines.

These high-voltage hydro corridors are in open areas for obvious safety reason (you wouldn't want kids climbing them, or things such as tree branches getting caught in them), aw well as some uncertain safety reasons, namely the electro-magnetic field the lines generate. There are camps on both sides of the debate on whether or not the EMF's are a health hazard. As no clear concensus can be reached the status quo of limiting development within the corridors remains. The concern also stretches to placing surface transit in these corridors as the vehicle operators would face prolonged exposure.

As for burying the lines, the issue of the EMF's comes up again. Since the effects are uncertain, how deep is safe enough to mitigate any possible effects? That aside, the insulation required to bury high-voltage lines, the heat generated from the lines, and the cost of essentially duplicating the network (as these lines need to remain active while their underground replacements are being built) are quite prohibitive. In some instances, the land beneath these corridors is already occupied by natural gas lines, further complicating issues.

Underground corridors of this magnitude do exist, but they are located in largely rural areas or underwater. We're talking about doing this in an urban environment. The only feasible means of burying high-voltage lines is for the voltage to be stepped down or reduced to a safe level. This however would require that there be several times as many lines all carrying lower voltage. Some of these corridors carry dozens of lines, each one requiring itself dozens of lines of reduced voltage to replace it. Soon you'll be faced with burying hundreds of these lines. Which all of a sudden doesn't seem quite as feasible.

[elkram]

functionality.
Dependable? Depends on how you regard functionality. Do your ears function well enough after riding that city's metro? How's the whiplash to your neck at stops? Are you the type to become embaressed from being thrown into the nearby passenger when the train halts? Not a pleasant legacy, Toronto.

Wheels squealing daftly even on the slightest of bends, noisiness ricocheting off no ballast underground; nothing learnt about how to quiet the squealing brakes when it came to freshly-commissioned trains a few years ago, the overall objective being to lurch the whole friggin unit into an abrupt stop.

I wish that city would just wake up -- with all that din of a tumbling you'd think it would've by now . . . .

For me functionality was first triumphed by London's Circle Line C stock fleet manufactured in the late 1960s. Its errr pleasant functionality outmatched even our fleets' here.

Cheers,
Chris

[degnaw]

Dependable? Depends on how you regard functionality. Do your ears function well enough after riding that city's metro? How's the whiplash to your neck at stops? Are you the type to become embaressed from being thrown into the nearby passenger when the train halts? Not a pleasant legacy, Toronto.

Wheels squealing daftly even on the slightest of bends, noisiness ricocheting off no ballast underground; nothing learnt about how to quiet the squealing brakes when it came to freshly-commissioned trains a few years ago, the overall objective being to lurch the whole friggin unit into an abrupt stop.
um, when I last took the metro (which was about three years ago) I dont remember having any of the above "symptoms", and from watching some more recent videos of it, it dosent seem too particularly loud or jerky to me, although you're probably just comparing it to the rubber-tired montreal metro (which ive never seen)

[elkram]

One knows lousy service when riding it -- it's no rocket science.

It's like a couple of evenings on a long intra-suburban bus ride here a couple of evenings ago. Driver flailing the passengers all over the place inside the facsimile of a city bus here, often hitting 50MPH on an old 30MPH winding road with utility poles edging the roadway (made me friggin' shudder), yet still all the passengers both sheepishly thanked and bade the driver good evening (regional habit here for passenger to alight from the front door).

Cheers,
Chris

[kashyap3]

buddy, Toronto has the best subway in Canada, on the contrary to what you may think

Montreal's subway is worn down piece of blue crap running down the rusty, horriby planned underground tunnels

have you looked at the size to toronto, and how much of it the subway actually covers?
it covers very little of the city, yet it does such an effective job in reducing the major gridlock problem in the GTA

[York Transit]

buddy, Toronto has the best subway in Canada, on the contrary to what you may think

Montreal's subway is worn down piece of blue crap running down the rusty, horriby planned underground tunnels

have you looked at the size to toronto, and how much of it the subway actually covers?
it covers very little of the city, yet it does such an effective job in reducing the major gridlock problem in the GTA

I just came back from a Montreal vacation. The metro is really loud and uncomfortable.

The suspensions on the old MR-63 trains, run on the green line, are seriously falling apart. The area near Lionel Groulx is the worst, I've never shaken/vibrated or seen some many people jiggle like jello on a train before. Go ride for yourself :)

The newer trains aren't that bad though, but they're still loud.

[elkram]

I just came back from a Montreal vacation. The metro is really loud and uncomfortable.

The suspensions on the old MR-63 trains, run on the green line, are seriously falling apart. The area near Lionel Groulx is the worst, I've never shaken/vibrated or seen some many people jiggle like jello on a train before. Go ride for yourself :)

The newer trains aren't that bad though, but they're still loud.
You mis-read me, for I was referring to current new fleets not being up-to-date, not ones respectively 40 and 30 years' old. For guys, our fleets aren't painful, whereas Toronto's hurts both genders -- I'm presuming our hilarious, rapid, bold jigglings might be painful for some females.

I often ride the eight tracks to or from Lionel-Groulx; 80 metres east of Viau station and the western half of Monk station are short tracking sections I'm suspicious of. No MR-63 here is seriously falling apart, or we'd have delays galore when the fact is the stark opposite. If anything, their seriousness is supposedly attributed to the spent costs at maintaining them in top form, plus neither fleet here spends time exposed to the elements. I find the older fleet's the stronger of our two fleets. Both fleets seem noisy due to the numerous open vents and grills in any car incessantly indoors, although its noisiness isn't painful. Toronto's noise levels are hazardous, its noisiness'd be hard to miss, whereas I must remember to be more alert on crowded platforms here coz that's when all that clothing around conceals the approach of one of our noisy trains.

[mrtfreak]

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8874/154526377799c348985byw9.jpg
Just my two cents, but the Toronto subway has made me appreciate these steel like systems. :)

[Jaye101]

Dependable? Depends on how you regard functionality. Do your ears function well enough after riding that city's metro? How's the whiplash to your neck at stops? Are you the type to become embaressed from being thrown into the nearby passenger when the train halts? Not a pleasant legacy, Toronto.

Wheels squealing daftly even on the slightest of bends, noisiness ricocheting off no ballast underground; nothing learnt about how to quiet the squealing brakes when it came to freshly-commissioned trains a few years ago, the overall objective being to lurch the whole friggin unit into an abrupt stop.

I wish that city would just wake up -- with all that din of a tumbling you'd think it would've by now . . . .

For me functionality was first triumphed by London's Circle Line C stock fleet manufactured in the late 1960s. Its errr pleasant functionality outmatched even our fleets' here.

Cheers,
Chris

The funny thing is I just got off of the subway, and I was reading your post. I was thinking what a horrible, horrible place you must be talking about. Then I saw it was Toronto and I laughed fairly hard.

Look at it this way. People in Toronto wouldn't be satisfied with a quiet "bus in a cave" (quoting a famous American comedian), we love the rumble beneath our feet as we walk down University, and we know to hold on tight when Union is the next station. It wouldn't be Toronto if it was quiet, and if the ride was as gentle as your Caravan--because that's not us. And us in the centre of the universe like ourselves alot.

If you asked a Torontonian which one they rather--the answer would be obvious.

http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/images/subway.jpg or http://lrta.info/articles/images/art0107c.jpg

[York Transit]

No MR-63 here is seriously falling apart, or we'd have delays galore when the fact is the stark opposite.

Actually, the MR-63's broke down on me about 4-5 times on 2 separate occasions.

The train would pull into a station, open it's doors, lights flicker, and then the entire train and lights would shut off, only to be restarted in 10-15 seconds. To me, that is not reliable! Something like that has never happened on the TTC, let alone 4-5 times in a WEEK.

One thing that STM does beat TTC is the speed of the trains. The MR-73's are definitely much improved and smoother than the MR-63's. I also like STM's automated voices, especially the new one on the green line. Much better than the constipated lady doing the automated announcements on the Sheppard line.

As for the noise, you can judge for yourself:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vA-hqSFO-fc [You can even see the camera shaking]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2hJGAhYQsE0

The TTC has its pros and cons, the STM has its pros and cons. :)

[Jaye101]

I can honestly admit that Toronto's subway is significantly louder than in that video. Some parts of the system are louder than others. For example the Yonge line north of Bloor is probably the most quiet, while inbetween Kennedy and Warden is probably the loudest.

[Homer J. Simpson]

The loudest part of the subway IMO is the bottom of the loop near Union and around St. George.

[elkram]

http://lrta.info/articles/images/art0107c.jpg
I wouldn't propose a survey whereat a sample's displayed out of context -- that's an indoor unit being displayed. :tongue2:

Actually, the MR-63's broke down on me about 4-5 times on 2 separate occasions.
. . .
The MR-73's are definitely much improved and smoother than the MR-63's.
The way you described the moments of diminished car lighting limited to stations did happen a couple of years ago, I'd forgot about those. Mind you, I doubt dimmed lighting to be as nauseating a functionality as mouldy air conditioning, the latter being a rotten pong that I reckon causes more head-turning than very minor delays from the past.

The MR-63s have always offered the superior ride, this being no secret to this city, although