I have not contradicted myself.
You have NEVER heard me complain about SkyTrain safety or cleanliness and frequency but have complained about the crime around the stations. I have NEVER complained about the honour system..EVER.
I have NEVER had anything but praise for the trolley system and the inner city bus service.
I have always been very supportive and pleased with the excellent 98 & 99 BLines and have always advocated for their expansion.
All you have heard me bitch about is the MLine and especially RAV.
I have ALWAYS stated how I think the MLine should be extended west UNDERGROUND because both the residential and commercial density along Broadway justify it.
I have always complained about the cost of MLine with poor ridership levels. As I stated before it shoul have been LRT and then underground past Commercial.

For me the biggest complaints have always been RAV {namely the tunnelling} and the SkyTrain routes taken as I do not think point to point rapid transit is effective {as the ridership numbers prove} and Translink's infactuation with being more of a suburban system in terms of their rapid transit.
I have NOT contradicted myself.

Bike lanes approved for Burrard Bridge

Last updated Jul 19 2005 02:35 PM PDT
CBC News

Vancouver city council has voted overwhelmingly to close two of the six lanes on the Burrard Bridge to motor vehicles – turning them into dedicated bike lanes.

The closure will begin next April on a one-year trial basis.

Council's decision follows a public hearing Tuesday morning which heard strong opposition to a city staff recommendation to widen the outside of the old bridge – to accommodate cyclists and pedestrians.

* LINK: City staff report detailing various options (1.64 MB .pdf) External site (http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/documents/tt1burrardbridge.pdf)

City council has struggled for years with how to make the Burrard Bridge safer for pedestrians and cyclists who currently share the two sidewalks – with painted dividing lines to keep them separate.

The chair of the Transportation and Traffic Committee, Fred Bass, says this is happiest day on city council. But he says he knows there will be complaints.

"There will be motorists who want to cut my throat, I'm sure of that. But I will say to them, that number one, we want motorists to move as smoothly as possible, as quickly as possible," he says.

"This is not to get in the way of motorists. But this is to make maximum efficient use of the roadway."

The same experiment was tried for several day in the 1990s. triggering a loud outcry from motorists.

City council is also considering widening sidewalks – either inside or outside the current bridge structure – at a cost of $13 million. But that decision is expected to remain on hold until council deals with the results of the lane closure experiment.

I'm wondering if the station names on the RAV finalized or not. Seems like there are some stations that will use the same name. For example, there are "Broadway Station" on both the Expo and RAV lines, and "Cambie Station" on both RAV line and the future M-Line extension...

Good news on the bike lanes!!

For the stations - on the SSP forum one of the forummers spoke with a rep and they said Broadway would likely be "Broadway/City Hall" or just "City Hall".
Other names are "Yaletown", "False Creek South", and probably "Oakridge" and "Langara".

@ mr.x

Hundreds of times, eh? Care to elaborate on where ssiguy2 contracted himself hundreds of times? Or is it that because his opinion differs than yours, then you attack him just as you attack me and others who happen to not share your childish views? As far as I can see, he is far more knowledgable on the topic than you or most of the RAV Line supporters and he backs up his claim with facts, not mindless desire for toy trains at whatever the costs. Have it ever occured to you that perhaps the reason why ssiguy2 criticizes RAV so much is because the way it is in its current form is solely due to you and your neighbors forcing it to be that way? It truly does not make any sense to build a subway on a sparsely populated area, in a city that has no desire to densify the corridor, at the expense of those people in the eastern areas who truly need rapid transit system so they can have more options to getting at work or school other than their own personal automobile.

"Hundreds of times" was exagerrated to make a point. and I'm doing the attacking? You're doing all the attacking, you're the one that's constantly insulting me even in topics that do not regard you. Things like believing I want a "toy train" and I'm "creme de la creme", well if you repeat "He believes that..." a thousand times you'll end up believing that even though it's not true and even when I've said that's not true.

Has it ever occured to you that Vancouverites here don't agree with you and ssiguy2 because you're all constantly pessmistic about RAV? Really, you both don't live in Vancouver - how does this affect you? If you really do care about the region, stop b!tching about it because it's getting nowhere here in this forum - why not do something if you actually care! RAV has a 99% chance of going ahead and as how it is right now.

"Hate" is your theme.....and again, as I have said before, I don't like the tunneling south of Queen Elizabeth Park as it should be elevated. But your paranoia and constant mumbling blinds you to thinking I want it, just exactly like Queetz. And you're blaming people 10 km away? If anything, blame those who live along the Cambie corridor, not 10 km away. I blame them as well but at the same time this isn't a doomsday project as you and your colleague stress it as. Those who live in Point Grey have hardly anything to do with the tunneling of RAV the whole way in Vancouer, it's all Cambie corridor residents that's doing it. With this logic, you may as well blame the whole nation of the United States of America for going to war........the fact was that there were many who protested against the war and who vote for the other party - the people who are to blame is the administration and the people who voted for Bush. It's the same analogy.

As far as I can see it, the supporters here know more about the project as they ACTUALLY LIVE HERE in the city where the line will be built and aren't blinded by hate.

RAV is a done deal as you see it, tunneling won't change at this point of the project timeline. There's a time for being pessimistic and there's a time for being optimistic, now is that time.

Bike lanes approved for Burrard Bridge.

The same experiment was tried for several day in the 1990s. triggering a loud outcry from motorists.I don't understand what the problem is for motorists. They will not be able to go 30km/h over the speed limit anymore?

I would think they'd want to put in some sort of divider to separate the bikes from traffic. That's what I'd want if I were taking my bike across. A thick painted line wouldn't cut it for me. I don't trust other motorists.

The 1990s one week (?) trial test was not publicized and consisted of orange pylons blocking off lanes - that half-assed attempt was used for years as justification for not removing a lane. With proper information traffic will disperse.

I think the plan is to install a low concrete median to separate the bike lane from the car lanes - as well as normalizing the intersection at the north end of the bridge (i.e. no merge lanes to/from Pacific.

Thats so stupid, close off two lanes, anti road as usual is council.

The bike lanes are dumb. They should build an extensive network of bike lanes befor they clog up traffic on one of only 3 bridges that lead downtown. I read in todays paper that less then 6% of all traffic including pedestrians is bikes.

I hope the clowns that run Vancouver get kick out in November, Larry Campbell is the only half sane person in COPE.

Well I think they are closing off two lanes in hope people will start to use alternative ways other then driving.

Yeah I think its a message to people that they better find a different way to get to work, which is not all bad but you dont want to completely alienate motorists. Im guessing building any new bridges is out of the question??

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/newsreleases2005/NRbikeroutes.htm

The City opened 6 new bike routes in June. The southbound Burrard Street bike lane will be opened this fall when Burrard street is repaved. Hornby provides the northbound route.

City opens six new bike routes in June

As part of Bike Month 2005, and its continuing support for sustainability initiatives, the City of Vancouver will officially open six new bike routes in June. The first event -- Kent Avenue Bikeway Opening -- was held yesterday in Gladstone Park.

Upcoming events include:

Homer Street Bike Lane Opening
Monday, June 6, 2005 5-6 pm
David Lam Park (Homer Street at Pacific Avenue)

Gladstone Bikeway Opening
Thursday, June 9, 2005 5-6 pm
Mini-Park (Gladstone Street at Vanness Avenue)

Hornby Street Bike Lane Opening
Monday, June 13, 2005 5-6 pm
Northwest corner (Hornby Street at Pacific Avenue)

10th Avenue Bikeway Opening
Wednesday, June 22, 2005 5-6 pm
City Hall, North Lawn
(Cambie Street at 10th Avenue)

Beatty Street Bike Lanes Opening
Monday, June 27, 2005 5-6 pm
Terry Fox Plaza (Beatty Street at Robson Street).

Burrard Bridge with Cars...

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4986/272990282ef2993c45b0gb.jpg

Burrard Bridge with Bikes...

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4476/217506280792d225ebb1dd.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/171/217506295ca5855079b9qp.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/9122/22310512de2e8923c9b7of.jpg

Burrard Bridge with Cars, Bikes and Pedestrians (current configuration) :eek: that's squishy ...

http://image24.webshots.com/25/6/84/84/30968484sGaLVqHmCT_ph.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Council votes to turn two of six lanes on Burrard Bridge into dedicated bike lanes

Doug Ward
Vancouver Sun

Wednesday, July 20, 2005

Vancouver city council voted Tuesday to turn two of six lanes on the Burrard Bridge into dedicated bike lanes -- a one-year experiment set to begin next April.

"This is the happiest day of my time on city council," said COPE councillor Fred Bass, who proposed the motion authorizing the plan, which received overwhelming support, with only NPA councillor Sam Sullivan opposed.

"I became a city councillor because of global warming," Bass said after the vote. "And it seems to me that what we have here is a very feasible way of testing out whether we can mobilize people to walk and cycle and for people to leave their cars behind."

The city tried a similar bike-lane experiment in 1996, closing one lane to cars and opening it to cyclists. The trial was meant to be extended over a period of months but was called off after one week because of motorist outrage and escalating hostility between drivers and cyclists.

The new bike-lane resolution went against a staff report that warned last month that the closure of two curb lanes would increase traffic congestion and slow transit and the movement of goods.

City staff instead recommended spending $13 million to widen the sidewalk on both sides of the Burrard Bridge as the best option for improving downtown access for cyclists and pedestrians.

The curb lane closure experiment was criticized by Charles Gauthier, executive-director of the Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association, who predicted increased congestion. "This council decision doesn't make a lot of sense to us, especially since city staff had made dire predictions about what would happen with lane closures."

Gauthier said the one-year trial will only confirm what the city learned during the 1996 experiment -- that the lane closures would generate congestion and increase transit times.

Cycling advocates were delighted by the council decision. "I'm thrilled," said Bonnie Fenton of the Vancouver Cycling Coalition.

"It's a victory for everybody, but it's going to take a little bit of patience and faith to see that this is an experiment that can work."

Fenton said there will be delays and some motorist anger during the trial's initial phase, "but as has been shown elsewhere, those delays get reduced over time as people develop new routes and new habits."

Bass said he's optimistic that the experiment will work this time because the lane closure will be accompanied by an intensive program promoting cycling and walking across Burrard Bridge and alerting motorists to alternative routes, such as the Granville Bridge.

Council also asked staff to proceed with the design review of the sidewalk-widening proposal.

The bike lane experiment will be assessed by staff at six-month and one-year intervals. If there is a consensus on council to abandon the bike lanes, staff will proceed with the widening of the sidewalks.

Council also instructed staff to examine transit changes and HOV lanes to help reduce the number of single-occupant vehicles crossing Burrard Bridge into the downtown.

About whether he is ready to deal with irate drivers, Bass said: "Motorists called for my head long ago and my head is still on my neck."

dward@png.canwest.com

CROWDED CROSSING:

Each hour during peak times, 8,000 to 9,000 people cross the Burrard Bridge.

Lone drivers 49%

Car poolers 21%

Transit riders 21%

Cyclists 5%

Walkers 4%

Source: City of Vancouver, Vancouver Sun
© The Vancouver Sun 2005

What is this talk about congestion? For all three bridges (Burrard, Granville, and Cambie) cars scream across no problem. Bike lanes taking over part of Burrard is not going to make things that bad or harm the economy :blahblah:

Part of the reason there are so few cyclists is because it's too dangerous mixing it up with cars. Talk to any person who cycles to work and they'll tell you stories I'm sure.

TransLink makes natural gas commitment

Last updated Jul 20 2005 01:30 PM PDT
CBC News

The TransLink board has decided to spend more than $60 million on natural gas buses – instead of diesel – to replace its fleet of aging diesel models.

A staff report had recommended that the transit authority buy 107 diesel buses, saying they would be cheaper to buy and maintain – which would mean more new buses on the road.

But Vancouver Mayor Larry Campbell told the board that buying diesel again would mean a 20-year commitment to greater pollution in Greater Vancouver.

And he challenged board members to back up their support for the environment with action. "I don't know how directors can say they're committed to the environment and sustainability and then buy diesel buses."

Campbell is happy with the board's decision. But he's still critical of the plan to buy new diesel buses instead of natural gas.

"This is a proven technology, it's clean, it will make the air better here, it's not going to be any more expensive and let's get on with life."

There's no word yet on how many new buses will be purchased. They'll hit the road by September 2007.

The transit authority plans to buy a total of 1,000 new buses in the next 10 years.

Buying 1,000 buses in the next ten years? wow.

Buying a 1000 new buses is great but will it increase the fleet or just replace the ones they have?? Any of those articulates?

Buying a 1000 new buses is great but will it increase the fleet or just replace the ones they have?? Any of those articulates?

It'll increase the fleet by 33%.

SkyTrain hires mystery shoppers to check service
Hired spies to report on travel experience and treatment by employees

Frank Luba
The Province

July 20, 2005

ADVERTISEMENT



What SkyTrain boss Doug Kelsey sees as a way to improve service is being called spying by one of the transit unions.

Kelsey plans to send mystery shoppers out to see how employees treat customers and what the customers experience while using the service.

He's used the research system, which employs an independent company, on West Coast Express and in his prior corporate experience at Shell and Starbucks.

"This is common in the service industry," said Kelsey, adding that the practice is common in the hotel and airline industry, and employed by Canadian Tire -- and even AirCare.

"It's how to manage if you are taking care of the business you said you're taking care of," he said.

That business ranges from cleaning stations and SkyTrain cars to making announcements and answering questions.

Gerry Cunningham, president of Local 7000 of the Canadian Union of Public Employees, said SkyTrain attendants and maintenance staff should be concerned about the technique.

"I think people better be aware," said Cunningham, who represents about 520 employees. "The SkyTrain attendants should keep their heads up. From my perspective, they are being spied upon."

Kelsey disagrees.

"Is it always about people? No," he said. "It's about the experience from the customers' lens.

"One of the big issues we get is visibility. Are our people out and about?"

Cunningham said that issue could be addressed by hiring more staff.

Usually there are just 40 SkyTrain attendants working at any one time, with two going up and down each line checking fares. That leaves 36 attendants for 33 stations.

"It'll be awful hard for our members to walk around with a smiley face on their face for 10 hours," said Cunningham.

Kelsey estimates the mystery shopper research will cost $60,000 to $100,000 a year.

fluba@png.canwest.com

There should be 80 attendants and officers working at one time.

That Mystery Shopper job would be a great part-time.

Translink also approved double tracking the RAV Line between Bridgeport Station and Cambie Station in Richmond.

^ Great....more additional costs. I wonder how many more concessions Translink will end up approving through the course of the RAV Line. I can see it now....

1) 2011, we need more millions from the Capital Projects fund to pay SNC Lavalin for the ridership shortfall for the year
2) 2012, we need more millions from the Capital Projects fund to pay SNC Lavalin for the ridership shortfall for the year
.
.
.
35) 2045, SNC Lavalin contract expires, finally money freed up to build the Broadway Line and replace those 38 year old buses and trolley buses we received 2007... :|

^ :cry: Cheer up mate!

^ well, pessimistic is his name.

Well, better a pessimist that an oppressive self centered 12 year old creme de la creme who thinks people who will never use the RAV Line in their lives and yet desperately need rapid transit improvements that they can never get because of RAV should still pay for his toy train. I suppose he does not care much for the rest of Translink projects since he is getting his little toy that he can play with at the expense of his poorer neighbors. And his attitudes towards those less fortunate than him is clearly shown at his making fun of those impoverish folks clinging on trains in India... :|

^ Yeah well get used to it, because its getting built wheather you like it or not. You can just sit there on your pansy LRT transit in Portland, because you are just in the minority, in a city you have to look at the majority, but also whats right, and like i said before i agree with you on the tunneling aspect, but other than that, everything else is fine.

Double post.

I haven't lived in the Lower Mainland for quite some time but I grew up in Tsawwassen. The worst part about going to Vancouver as a kid was taking the bus into Vancouver, it took forever.

The RAV line is going to make that Journey a thousand times better with the transfer at Bridgeport Station. It is going to increase transit ridership from Tsawwassen and Ladner by quite a lot I would expect, though only if there is an increase in amount of the busses to take people there.

Why thank you sukh! Yes, npinguy is an idiot. He has no back up and thinks whatever he says is the truth.

Wait wait wait.

YOU are the one who has so far named TWO industrial parks and have whined about how they have no bus access. While I'M the one who has described in detail how they actually DO, and provided the proof to back it up.

and I'M the one that has no backup and thinks what I say is the truth?

Wow man. You're more full of shit than I ever imagined. It's getting embarassing.


I kinda suspect he is one of those typical Vancouver trolls, possibly even benji45 himself, who thinks Vancouver is so perfect (and he admits it too) that it is immuned to legitimate criticism.

Once again.........Here is a thread about Vancouver public transit and every vancouverite on the forum supports it and gathers that the public opinion is largely supportive of it as well.

Meanwhile YOU are a guy who doesn't even live in Vancouver, on whom this has absolutely no impact whatsoever. Yet you come in here, and bash the system, and all vancouverites. You bash it with criticisms that you do not back up. And you even lie, and distort, and get facts completely wrong.

And yet I'M the troll. WOW......


As for legitimate criticisms -
So far you've made only 1 or 2 legitimate criticisms, and if you look carefully you'll see I responded to them.


I admit, my achilles heal is not being in Vancouver today but given that I was there during this whole RAV fiasco and still follow the news simply because of my interest in urban transit (and what not to do), I assure you I do know what I'm talking about and continue to backup my claims.


Right, like that commerce parkway and inex pharmaceuticals have no bus access, and all the other claims of yours that i have thorougly destroyed.


One thing I would like to point out though is when discussing urban planning, I believe the one being referred to is the GVRD, not just the city of Vancouver.

I'm not going to diss the GVRD because I love it but you are incorrect. Primarily when developers from other cities look to Vancouver, they look to predominantly Vancouver, especially the construction around false creek.


But when it comes to new urbanism and rail transit planning, a lot do come to Portland. I've heard or must have seen somewhere that even Translink went to Portland to look at how our MAX LRT works and lessons they can learn with regards to their Northeast Line.

Rail planning - yes. Portland's LRT is nice, and it would fit well for the Northeast line. But new ubranism? In your dreams. How'bout backing that fact up.

You can find information anywhere of Dubai, San Diego, Toronto, and many others looking to Vancouver for inspiration for projects. Find me something about anybody coming to portland to learn about new urbanism.




IN CONCLUSION, I absolutely adore people like you Wally. You are SO completely and utterly full of crap that it's incredibly easy to make you look like a fool. Here's how it works:

You (or anyone like you): "X sucks because of blah blah blah and Y"
Me (or anyone like me): "Well actually you are completely full of shit because you got it completely wrong about Y. You are wrong and here's why blah blah."
You: "<pause> You are biased, and X sucks because of blah blah blah and Y"

You completely ignore any efforst made to counteract your points, and simply repeat them over and over mindlessly. I love that.



Because some people here are so damn defensive that they would bash successful transit systems elsewhere in a futile attempt to validate their twisted illogical mindsets that Vancouver's transit system is "perfect", even though it clearly is not.

Actually, in case you've forgotten (and I know you haven't, but i digress), it's you and others that have STARTED to bash the vancouver transit system, and brought up the C-train to show how it SHOULD'VE been done instead.

So instead we point out how the C-train just wouldn't work for Vancouver (and i gave valid reasons? remember them? of course you do.) But because you guys just do not get it, we have to resort to going down to your level and go with mindless bashing like so:

"The C-Train blows. End of story."


Well, better a pessimist that an oppressive self centered 12 year old creme de la creme who thinks people who will never use the RAV Line in their lives and yet desperately need rapid transit improvements that they can never get because of RAV should still pay for his toy train. I suppose he does not care much for the rest of Translink projects since he is getting his little toy that he can play with at the expense of his poorer neighbors. And his attitudes towards those less fortunate than him is clearly shown at his making fun of those impoverish folks clinging on trains in India... :|

jesus christ give it up already. I have already established you're full of shit. Stop the bitching. You're only making yourself look worse.

BY THE WAY. You're gonna love this. I just started a new job this monday. It's at an industrial park in Burnaby - around Gilmore and Canada way. I take the millenium line every day.

Guess what. In the morning? Packed. In the afternoon? Packed. Packed to the brims.

Maybe the overall total ridership is still low because it's not as packed in the off-peak hours, but just the peak hour ridership alone justifies it's existence in my opinion. And I know my fellow riders agree with me.


It seems like you've contradicted yourself a hundred times in this post.

mr. x i agree with you on many things but don't do that. if you're gonna call somebody out, you gotta give reasons for it. You gotta POINT OUT how they contradict themselves if you want to do that. Otherwise you hurt our side.

It is going to increase transit ridership from Tsawwassen and Ladner by quite a lot I would expect, though only if there is an increase in amount of the busses to take people there.

It will double the frequency of all express buses because bridge port is about half the travel time of downtown (depending on which express bus route), all the buses will then turn around thus vastly increasy the freqency (I would expect an average of 50% more service on Express bus routes).

RAV will save express bus riders a huge amount of time. Currently the worst congestion that faces the express buses starts befor the Oak Street Bridge and ends at Downtown, there is really bad congestion at the Tunnel but buses avoid this with the HOV lanes. Once RAV is inplace Express bus riders will avoid all major traffic congestion.

The buses will get off well befor the Oak Steet bridge, and the riders will then ride RAV from Bridge Port to downtown in less than 20min riding under all the traffic.

This will save the 55,000 people who use the express buses every week day about 25min during both the morning and afternoon rush hour, which account for 70% of the week day ridership.

^ That sounds truly awesome. I don't think that people can truly understand how vastly the RAV is going to change the nature of travel in Vancouver yet. It is only 4 years away and people seem to think that it is the distant future.

Also the airport branch is going to be to add a lot of day visitors to downtown. I often travel and if I am doing a layover somewhere and there is a train to the downtown core I will usually take it even if it is just for a few hours. If there is only bus service I won't usually risk it.

Is the airport line going to terminate inside the terminal or somewhere else?

Is the airport line going to terminate inside the terminal or somewhere else?

It's gonna terminate outside the terminal and a new building will be constructed at the terminal and it'll have a connection to the station:

http://img62.exs.cx/img62/6700/rav.jpg
http://img299.echo.cx/img299/7089/yvr3xv.jpg

Well, better a pessimist that an oppressive self centered 12 year old creme de la creme who thinks people who will never use the RAV Line in their lives and yet desperately need rapid transit improvements that they can never get because of RAV should still pay for his toy train. I suppose he does not care much for the rest of Translink projects since he is getting his little toy that he can play with at the expense of his poorer neighbors. And his attitudes towards those less fortunate than him is clearly shown at his making fun of those impoverish folks clinging on trains in India... :|

Your paranoia, idiocy and lunacy is hillarious.......saying this over and over again doesn't make it true you know.

Guerrero brings up a good point, Vancouver gets alot of flights in from asia any many of the passengers have to transfer flights but they often have to wait 6-8 hours in, YVR is great but you cant kill 6 or 8 hours there. Downtown being just 20min subway ride away with no transfers is dead easy for tourists.

'Blasts' are TV fakes, warns SkyTrain

Broadcast News

Friday, July 22, 2005

VANCOUVER -- Passengers riding Vancouver's rapid transit system Friday night may get a bit of a fright when they hear a big "boom" that sounds like an explosion.

But SkyTrain officials say not to worry: it's just the film crew from the hit television show Smallville, using special effects that sound like explosions.

The series, which follows comic-book superhero Superman as a youngster, will be shooting in Burnaby between 10 p.m. and midnight Friday.

Officials say the boom will likely be heard between the Edmonds and Royal Oak stations.

SkyTrain says the filming poses no risk to travellers, but given the recent terrorist attacks in London, the company felt it was prudent to warn its customers.

© The Canadian Press 2005

I haven't lived in the Lower Mainland for quite some time but I grew up in Tsawwassen. The worst part about going to Vancouver as a kid was taking the bus into Vancouver, it took forever.

The RAV line is going to make that Journey a thousand times better with the transfer at Bridgeport Station. It is going to increase transit ridership from Tsawwassen and Ladner by quite a lot I would expect, though only if there is an increase in amount of the busses to take people there.

I disagree. During rush hour, it takes about 50 minutes to go from Ladner to Burrard station (35-40 mins in non-peak hours). RAV will actually increase the commute time to downtown outside rush hours.

Will South Delta's ridership increase? No. We pay $4.5 per trip to get to downtown and we wouldn't want to get off the coach at Bridgeport and then transfer onto a skytrain where we can't sleep and have to stand.

You are the one that is full of shit, npinguy! Let me explain.

Wait wait wait.

YOU are the one who has so far named TWO industrial parks and have whined about how they have no bus access. While I'M the one who has described in detail how they actually DO, and provided the proof to back it up.

Well, this is the post that is supposed to be your back-up.

COMMERCE PARKWAY? YOU FUCKING MORON!! I WORKED at Commerce Parkway for 13 months (At MDA). I lived in Kitsilano. I took the 98B-line to Aberdeen, then the 410 to a bus stop right in front of my company building. It took me about an hour.

I don't know about the other industrial parks, but given what you know about Commerce Parkway, it seems like you don't know what you're talking about any of them. I'm gonna assume that they all have bus service. And you are just full of shit.

Not much real facts over there, unless you honestly expect us to assume you are correct from one example that can't even be verified. Care to explain to us how people in Glenlyon or the Xantrex complex in Burnaby Mountain (a third office park that I mention) have easy bus access? :tongue:

"Once again.........Here is a thread about Vancouver public transit and every vancouverite on the forum supports it and gathers that the public opinion is largely supportive of it as well."

Well of course they are going to support it. They ain't the one that live in the outlying suburbs and yet still have to pay for this damn thing, especially the 12 year old creme de la creme. :|


As for legitimate criticisms -
So far you've made only 1 or 2 legitimate criticisms, and if you look carefully you'll see I responded to them.

Another lie. What about the post that I just made about the never ending subsidy Translink have to make to SNC Lavalin if the ridership forecast does not hit its overly optomistic target? :|

Right, like that commerce parkway and inex pharmaceuticals have no bus access, and all the other claims of yours that i have thorougly destroyed.

Which claims may that be? Or do you think by simply replying to my concerns without any solid backup that you think you are automatically correct? And I have yet to hear you prove that Inex Pharmeceuticals have bus access... :blahblah:

"I'm not going to diss the GVRD because I love it but you are incorrect. Primarily when developers from other cities look to Vancouver, they look to predominantly Vancouver, especially the construction around false creek."

Oh yeah....the city of Vancouver is limited to false creek. And I've heard somewhere that Larry Campbell dissed Doug McCallum because Surrey does not even bother following the GVRD LRSP so it looks like even the mayors themselves diss the GVRD in one form or the other. :|

Rail planning - yes. Portland's LRT is nice, and it would fit well for the Northeast line. But new ubranism? In your dreams. How'bout backing that fact up.

http://www.urbanresidue.com/urban_planning/portland/

You can find information anywhere of Dubai, San Diego, Toronto, and many others looking to Vancouver for inspiration for projects. Find me something about anybody coming to portland to learn about new urbanism.

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2001/04/16/daily65.html

http://www.upa.pdx.edu/pdf/chinaplanners.pdf

jesus christ give it up already. I have already established you're full of shit. Stop the bitching. You're only making yourself look worse.

LOL! More like the other way around. You must be smoking some serious stuff to think that way. Whatever your smoking, I want some!!!! :D

Maybe the overall total ridership is still low because it's not as packed in the off-peak hours, but just the peak hour ridership alone justifies it's existence in my opinion. And I know my fellow riders agree with me.

Again, full of shit. Do you have documentation that your fellow riders agree with you? :blahblah:

Or did you just assume that and expect everyione else to believe you. And you must be a big fan of Glen Clark. It is he who forced the Millenium Line to be Skytrain.

BY THE WAY. You're gonna love this. I just started a new job this monday. It's at an industrial park in Burnaby - around Gilmore and Canada way. I take the millenium line every day.

Let me guess...Pacific Blue Cross? BCAA? Telus? I know for a fact that you are lying. I did some consulting work for Xenon and took the Millenium Line myself connecting to the number 25 bus to get off by the Creo building and Electronic Arts CANADIAN Regional HQ (not the corporate HQ that some silly Vancouver forumers would claim). It was never full and this was during school days. :|

mr. x i agree with you on many things but don't do that. if you're gonna call somebody out, you gotta give reasons for it. You gotta POINT OUT how they contradict themselves if you want to do that. Otherwise you hurt our side.

What can you expect from a 12 year old creme de la creme who knows nothing what he talked about and simply takes other people's opinion and claim it is his own. If your ally is this punk kid, its no wonder you are considered an idiot even by other Vancouver forumers like sukh. :hilarious:

Wally, I know one moderator here that's watching you like a hawk and wants to ban you so I suggest that you shut up with all those insults and all and keep everything to yourself from now on.

Give him more reasons and he'll ban you for sure. The only troll here is you.

Wally, I know one moderator here that's watching you like a hawk and wants to ban you so I suggest that you shut up with all those insults and all and keep everything to yourself from now on.

Give him more reasons and he'll ban you for sure. The only troll here is you.

Well, if I'm gonna be banned, you, npninguy, and the alter egos of Benji45 should be banned too as you all are equally guilty of "trolling". You know the saying...let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. :|

mr.x, you are not an innocent bystander yourself so consider this your official warning. All of you should start behaving or there will be consequences.

You are the one that is full of shit, npinguy! Let me explain.

this'll be good. I'm all ears.



Well, this is the post that is supposed to be your back-up.



Not much real facts over there, unless you honestly expect us to assume you are correct from one example that can't even be verified. Care to explain to us how people in Glenlyon or the Xantrex complex in Burnaby Mountain (a third office park that I mention) have easy bus access? :tongue:


WOW.........you can't possibly be doing this not on purpose. no way is anybody this slow. Allow me to refresh your memory.


You mentioned ~5 or 6 tech parks. You said unequivocally that none of them have bus access. I saw one at which I worked and remembered QUITE clearly that it has excellent bus access (since i took this bus twice a day for 13 months).
I pointed this out to you.
What did you do?
You mentioned a SECOND tech park that you claim has no bus access. Yet quite simply by using google, google maps, and the translink website I have established that quite clearly they DO have bus access.

Now you mention a third. Do I even need to bother? Even if you do eventually succeed in finding one high tech park that doesn't have bus access you wouldn't have proven anything.



Well of course they are going to support it. They ain't the one that live in the outlying suburbs and yet still have to pay for this damn thing, especially the 12 year old creme de la creme. :|

So basically your whole problem is that people in Coquitlam will have to pay for the RAV line even tho that doesn't help them.

First of all that's bullshit. It's not like Translink comes to the door and says "give us money. We will use this money for the RAV system and it won't benefit you at all but you still have to give us money."

The CITIES give a certain amount to Translink for services, and Translink responds in kind by giving them services. But Translink has to decide which services have priority for the lower mainland. right now the big one (esp because of the olympics) is the RAV line. But there's also the Coquitlam LRT, bridge expansions, new bus routes, more buses, etc, etc.


Second of all, a large number of "outlying suburbs" will directly benefit from the RAV line. Obviously Richmond. But also Tswassen, Delta, etc.



As for legitimate criticisms -
So far you've made only 1 or 2 legitimate criticisms, and if you look carefully you'll see I responded to them.

Another lie. What about the post that I just made about the never ending subsidy Translink have to make to SNC Lavalin if the ridership forecast does not hit its overly optomistic target?

Whoops. i sincerely apologize for that. With the amount of bullcrap you spew out it's really hard to see your good points. if you think you got more, don't hesitate to mention them again and I'll respond.


I saw your post. i didn't understand it. Are you telling me that if translink doesn't get the ridership levels it is anticipated, Translink will have to pay SNC Lavalin? Could you run that one by me again? Why is that? And what's your source on that. I presume you're saying Translink needs to give SNC some percentage of the ticket money to help pay for the system, and that if they fall short they have to get the money elsewhere?


Okay...in that case I have to ask what makes you think RAV will fall below expectations in ridership levels?

Originally Posted by npinguy
Right, like that commerce parkway and inex pharmaceuticals have no bus access, and all the other claims of yours that i have thorougly destroyed.


Which claims may that be? Or do you think by simply replying to my concerns without any solid backup that you think you are automatically correct? And I have yet to hear you prove that Inex Pharmeceuticals have bus access...

So what you're telling me is you don't even read my posts eh? Because quite clearly in post:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=4776908&postcount=473
I say:
Inex Pharmaceuticals.
200-8900 Glenlyon Parkway
Burnaby, British Columbia
Canada V5J 5J8

Map:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=8900+Glenlyon+Parkway,+burnaby,+bc&spn=0.137149,0.321590&hl=en

May I recommend bus #116? You can catch it at the Metrotown skytrain station. Skytrain is easily gotten to from almost anywhere.
http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/maps/sys_maps/sys_Route_Map.pdf


Wally give this up, it's getting sad how utterly and completely full of shit you are.




Oh yeah....the city of Vancouver is limited to false creek.
Did I say that? I said "ESPECIALLY" false creek? Why? because that's how it is. It has nothing to do with being the ONLY thing in Vancouver.

For instance. A major developer in Dubai saw the development around false creek, and created an artificial inlet on the outskirts of dubai that was dredged out, and started building projects around it in an imitation of Vancouver. This was on the discovery channely many months ago.



http://www.urbanresidue.com/urban_planning/portland/

I'm sorry, please show me where on that site it talks about other cities looking to Portland for ideas or inspiration on Urban Planning



http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2001/04/16/daily65.html

http://www.upa.pdx.edu/pdf/chinaplanners.pdf


So portland is a leader in green development. Environmentally friendly. Okay.
Props on that. Really, no sarcasm.

Still. Compared to Vancouver that's like auditioning for a role that Brad Pitt is also up for when the highlight of your resume is "Busboy #2 in X-files episode 93"

Originally Posted by npinguy
jesus christ give it up already. I have already established you're full of shit. Stop the bitching. You're only making yourself look worse.



LOL! More like the other way around. You must be smoking some serious stuff to think that way. Whatever your smoking, I want some!!!!
It's quite sad, Wally. you have no case.

It goes like this:

You: "<bullshit claim>"
Me: "You're full of shit and here's why...<explanation for why you're full of shit, often as simple as a link to the translink bus route map>" (this bolded part is very important.)
You: "Hahaha actually it's YOU that's full of shit." (as you can see there's no bolded part, because you never explain it. You just subscribe to the 3rd grade philosophy of "i know you are but what am i".





Again, full of shit. Do you have documentation that your fellow riders agree with you? :blahblah:

Or did you just assume that and expect everyione else to believe you. And you must be a big fan of Glen Clark. It is he who forced the Millenium Line to be Skytrain.


If you were taking a rapid transit line that allowed you to take a 15 minute trip that would otherwise take you at least twice as long by bus....and you were taking it with a train full of people in the exact same situation as you....and you were very very glad that you had this line to cut your trip time down a lot...wouldn't you assume that the others felt the same way?


I mean if I'm in a candy store with 200 other people, and the owner says "free candy for everyone", i COULD stop to think that perhaps maybe a couple people in the room are diabetic and as such are in no way excited like I am. But that would be stupid. Instead, it'd be logical to suppose that everone is enjoying the prospect of free chocolate.




Let me guess...Pacific Blue Cross? BCAA? Telus? I know for a fact that you are lying. I did some consulting work for Xenon and took the Millenium Line myself connecting to the number 25 bus to get off by the Creo building and Electronic Arts CANADIAN Regional HQ (not the corporate HQ that some silly Vancouver forumers would claim). It was never full and this was during school days. :|


You know for a fact that I'm lying? You've reached a new level of being full of shit.

A) I work for HSBC.
B) The train is full. Both in the morning rush hour and in the afternoon. It's no lie. I don't know how to back it up. Oh I could take a few pictures of crowded cars with barely any room to stand. You'd just say I took it during an event or when there was a train delay. But you know what? What the fuck would you know? When was the last time you took this train?

I don't lie man. It's you that throws out the claims like that Inex pharmaceuticals has no bus access, etc. I don't lie. Never have I done so in this thread, and never will I do so.


What can you expect from a 12 year old creme de la creme who knows nothing what he talked about and simply takes other people's opinion and claim it is his own. If your ally is this punk kid, its no wonder you are considered an idiot even by other Vancouver forumers like sukh. :hilarious:

actualy it's you that sukh considers the idiot. read his post again you bird-brained chump.

As for Mr. X. - he IS a 12 year old kid. He DOES have problems making a coherent point sometimes. But he knows a lot more than you. And while that's not saying much, it should scare the living daylights out of you.

First, lets watch the language! Lets keep this reasoned and civil.

Second, I am EXTREMLY surprised that no one has commented on my previous views about Vancouverites VIEWS of transit. In Vancouver, like L.A. I think transit is seen as a last resort. You only take it if you have to, especially when you get out of the downtown core.
In eastern cities Tor/Mon/Ott it is seen as a real viable option regardless of your income or status. Even Calgarians seem a bit more open-minded about it.
Vancouverites have often left me with the impression that it is seen as a poor man's mode and they only take it becuase they don't have two cars.
There seems to be a stereotype of the people who use it here that you don't get back east.
Like I said, I think much of this is an L.A. view of transit............only if you HAVE to.

^ Thats not true, I and alot of other people I know go out of our way to take transit because it is cheaper on gas and parking, and its not for lack of cars my family has 4. Most of my freinds in Vancouver Proper (I live in White Rock) take transit all the time because its more convinet then driving.

I plan to eventualy live near one of Vancouver's skytrain, LRT or Subway lines. In Vancouver a car is aliability not a convenience.

i think its time to lock this thread :lock:

I'm not gonna bother responding to npinguy's posts in light of the warning from Chad, the moderator. But to confirm ssiguy2's post, groups like the Bus Riders Union and the fact that Skytrain was actually called a "loser cruiser" by the Vancouver Sun seems to support that transit over there is a poor man's mode. But I think the main reason why this is the case is it simply doesn't provide adequate coverage or decent service. Despite the traffic, transit is still slow and inconvenient for most of the residents of the GVRD and it will be like that despite the RAV Line since most residents don't live in the Westside of Vancouver or Richmond between now and forever as compared to other growth areas such as the Northeast region and Surrey. Rapid transit expansion should be concentrated to those areas first (and the Coquitlam Line is not guaranteed until the digging starts anyway). Your going to get stuck in traffic anyway so might as well do it in the comfort of your own private automobile.

i think its time to lock this thread :lock:Are you the man with the iron fist? You know this discussion would just start up in a new thread.

I will say it again before close this thread, everyone should respect others opinion.

It's just a common sense that if you want people to respect you, you have to do that first :)

Please do not close the thread! So much information has been posted (mostly in the early topics) about the Vancouver transit system and we're nearing 29 pages, it would be a shame to close it.




TransLink would put video cameras on buses
Move depends on Transport Canada

Jonathan Fowlie
Vancouver Sun; With Canadian Press and Associated Press


Saturday, July 23, 2005

TransLink would seriously consider installing video cameras on buses and SkyTrain cars if Transport Canada recommends the move, a spokeswoman for the Lower Mainland's regional transit authority said Friday.

TransLink already has 750 cameras in SkyTrain stations, but because of privacy issues it has been reluctant to put them on the SkyTrain cars and transit buses.

That could all change in the heightened security aftermath of transit system bombings in London, which culminated in the police shooting death of a terror suspect Friday after apparent bombing attempts failed Thursday in the U.K. capital.

In the U.S., transit passengers in major cities were greeted Friday by legions of police and bomb-sniffing dogs patrolling trains and subways, following renewed fears of transit attacks in high-target American cities.

"It's a fine line we have to walk in trying to balance the needs of making sure it is safe to take transit," TransLink spokeswoman Susan Danard said Friday, "but also so people don't feel their privacy is invaded."

Danard added, however, that if Transport Canada recommends putting cameras on transit vehicles, it would be an issue TransLink would "look at seriously."

She also said a proposal is being considered to expand video coverage to include areas such as bus loops.

Danard said the new SkyTrain police force, which has 85 constables who are all expected to be carrying firearms by the end of September, is also on the lookout for suspicious activities. She said enforcement activity includes knapsack searches which are intended to reduce crime and guard against greater threats.

"Because of concerns around crime and security in general in Vancouver we've been trying to increase our presence on the system with the armed transit police," Danard said. "It also, coincidentally, will help us with these broader threats that are more global in nature," she added.

Danard said TransLink has focused on anti-terrorism measures since the Madrid train bombings in March, 2004, and that it consistently works with Transport Canada and other Canadian transit systems to assess levels of security and preparedness.

Federally, installation of surveillance cameras on buses and subway cars is among anti-terrorism options being studied as part of a national review of transportation security, Canadian Press reported Friday.

The effectiveness of random bag searches and the presence of more uniformed officers at transit facilities will also be considered by a working group helping Transport Canada draft a new security blueprint, Canadian Press said.

Michael Roschlau, president of the Canadian Urban Transit Association, said there are three elements to the exercise -- preventing an attack, preparing for one, and dealing with the aftermath.

"We need to do what we can within reason to make our systems secure and to provide a reasonable level of confidence for the travelling public," said Roschlau, whose association represents most city transit systems across the country.

Roschlau recently spent a few hours with a consultant assisting the federally sponsored working group on public transit. A report from the group this fall will contribute to a federal blueprint on transport security to be published next year.

Closed-circuit cameras have helped British police identify people involved in bombings on the London transit system. In Canada the technology is generally limited to transit stations and platforms but the federally led study will examine placement aboard vehicles, Roschlau said.

"It would not surprise me if there would be more pressure to install more surveillance cameras on the systems, which to me makes sense," he said in an interview Friday.

Cameras would "make people feel more secure" and "allow for more eyes on the system" without necessarily bringing in more authorities to patrol stations and vehicles, he said.

"There's some very interesting technology that I think would make that kind of a concept effective. And admittedly it doesn't come cheap. So somehow we'll need to find the resources to do whatever comes out of this strategy."

Roschlau acknowledged the initiative raises privacy issues, but suggested people are becoming more used to being on camera. For instance, some taxis are now outfitted with surveillance devices for driver safety.

The working group will also explore:

pReplacement of standard garbage containers at transit stations with large, transparent plastic containers in which it is difficult to conceal a bomb;

pMaking stations generally more terrorist-proof by ensuring there are no hidden corners where explosive devices might be hidden;

pRandom passenger searches, which have already been carried out in cities including Boston, New York and Washington;

pA greater police presence, or placement of special transit authorities, within systems.

Roschlau believes 100-per-cent security is unattainable.

"There are ways to minimize the risk, and I think that's really all we can do. There is no way that we can be absolutely foolproof in terms of securing the system. I think that's just unrealistic," he said.

"It's just not possible without almost paralysing the systems. The challenge is to find the tradeoff, to find the balance, which minimizes the risk without crippling the systems."

Another hurdle is finding the money for improvements.

The urban transit association wants the federal government to come forward with cash since it has primary responsibility for security and could ensure consistency across the country.

"There's no question that there will be a need for investment in this financially," Roschlau said.

"And I think there will be a certain expectation for the federal government to step up to the plate on this one."

In the U.S. $130 million US has been earmarked to improve public transit systems security.

TransLink's security and law enforcement division provides security and enforcement for Coast Mountain Bus, SeaBus, SkyTrain, and West Coast Express.

Translink carried 156 million paying riders aboard its services last year, according to its 2004 annual report.

Also See: A local family's close call, A12; London police gun down suspect, A13

© The Vancouver Sun 2005

great another informative thread gone bad! :no: