Daba pourquoi tous le monde veut créer tout une polémique, alors que la proposition de loi vient juste d’être annoncé, sans aucun détails !
Je ne suis pas très Pro-PJD mais faire payer les rejetons des familles aisées est une bonne chose.



3 petites questions :

Est ce que cela augmentera le nombre de places ?



Oui, surement puisque l’état investira moins dans la formation et plus dans l'infrastructure.
Chaque année il y a 2700 bacheliers qui vont en 1ère année médecine, si au moins 700 étudiants payaient leurs études, ça ferait économiser à l'état ~100 millions DHs par an.




Est ce que le fait de payer donnera la priorité et est ce qu'il y aura des quotas de boursiers pour les matières chères ( médecine, ingénierie, etc) ?




Surement pas, l'accès à la faculté de médecine et aux écoles nationales d’ingénieurie se fait par concours => Mérite

Daba pourquoi tous le monde veut créer tout une polémique, alors que la proposition de loi vient juste d’être annoncé, sans aucun détails !
Je ne suis pas très Pro-PJD mais faire payer les rejetons des familles aisées est une bonne chose.

C'est au ministre de preparer ses dossiers avant de lancer des infos, ils continuent dans l'amateurisme, le mec il parle à la presse et puis il dis que il n'en a toujours pas parlé au gouvernement .

Et puis il continue en disant qu'il va demander +/- 10% de 9000 euros


Oui, surement puisque l’état investira moins dans la formation et plus dans l'infrastructure.
Chaque année il y a 2700 bacheliers qui vont en 1ère année médecine, si au moins 700 étudiants payaient leurs études, ça ferait économiser à l'état ~100 millions DHs par an.

Tu l'as entendu parler de places supplementaires ? moi pas . il ne parle que de ses problemes de budget actuels et donc ce que les frais d inscription vont payer c'est le deficit .



Surement pas, l'accès à la faculté de médecine et aux écoles nationales d’ingénieurie se fait par concours => Mérite

Donc comme tu le dis c'est que des eleves meritants qui sont dans ces cursus , les meilleurs.

Que l'on fasse payer une partie d'entre eux ne changera rien au nombre de place disponible

C'est au ministre de preparer ses dossiers avant de lancer des infos, ils continuent dans l'amateurisme, le mec il parle à la presse et puis il dis que il n'en a toujours pas parlé au gouvernement .




Va dire au ministre de l'emploi francais que c'est un amateur puisqu'il a proposé de rapatrier les centres d'appels en France avant meme de consulter le reste du gouvernement.


Et puis il continue en disant qu'il va demander +/- 10% de 9000 euros


Il a dit :"maghadich netleb TA 10%", la journaliste lui repond:" nisba 9lila"


Tu l'as entendu parler de places supplementaires ? moi pas . il ne parle que de ses problemes de budget actuels et donc ce que les frais d inscription vont payer c'est le deficit .


Faire payer aux étudiants de familles aisées permettra d’alléger les charges du ministère => augmentation de l'investissement


Donc comme tu le dis c'est que des eleves meritants qui sont dans ces cursus , les meilleurs.

Oui, ecoute bien ce qu'il dit à la minute 1:53

wk4XP5k7kOc


Que l'on fasse payer une partie d'entre eux ne changera rien au nombre de place disponible

Relis mon dernier post, j'ai pas envie de me répéter.

à mon avis, ce qu'il dit est logique...

Va dire au ministre de l'emploi francais que c'est un amateur puisqu'il a proposé de rapatrier les centres d'appels en France avant meme de consulter le reste du gouvernement.

Ton ministre français, il s'est fait tirer les oreilles et par la presse et par son 1er ministre .


Il a dit :"maghadich netleb TA 10%", la journaliste lui repond:" nisba 9lila"

Il donne un pourcentage donc il sais combien cela va couter , qu'il ne vienne pas dire ... euh ! je n'en ai pas encore parler au gouvernement .



Faire payer aux étudiants de familles aisées permettra d’alléger les charges du ministère => augmentation de l'investissement .

Faire payer les etudes superieures aux " riches" n'est qu'une façon detournée de les faire payer au plus grand nombre dans pas longtemps .

La justice sociale se fait via l'impot. Si ils ont besoin d'argent et qu'il veulent faire contribuer les riches, il n'ont qu'à augmenter les impot sur les tranches superieures .

Toucher à la gratuité de l'enseignement c'est clairement une régression sociale .

Pour finir il ne parle pas des places supplementaires, ni de nouvelles écoles ni de nouvelles universités .

à mon avis, ce qu'il dit est logique...

Sutout quand il dit " j'ai des gens riches qui viennent me dire : je veux payer !!! je veux payer !!" :lol:

Sutout quand il dit " j'ai des gens riches qui viennent me dire : je veux payer !!! je veux payer !!" :lol:

:rofl:

jpense qu'un riche est prêt à tous pour ses enfants
si payer va améliorer les conditions des étudiants, ils adhéreront c'est sûr
et puis les frais ne seront pas mirobolants comme en France, pour laquelle il faut 6900 dhs minimum par mois pour un étudiant marocain.

:rofl:

jpense qu'un riche est prêt à tous pour ses enfants
si payer va améliorer les conditions des étudiants, ils adhéreront c'est sûr
et puis les frais ne seront pas mirobolants comme en France, pour laquelle il faut 6900 dhs minimum par mois pour un étudiant marocain.

Il m'a fait rire . Je me suis dis ou alors il est en train de dire à la tele que des gens lui proposent de l'argent ou alors il ment et c'est encore plus grave

Cela dit on s'en fout des riches, eux ils s'en sortiront toujours .

C'est juste que ce n'est que le debut et que c'est les classes moyennes qui vont trinquer .

Il donne un pourcentage donc il sais combien cela va couter , qu'il ne vienne pas dire ... euh ! je n'en ai pas encore parler au gouvernement .

1- Donc il peut révéler le pourcentage sans voir avec le gouvernement mais s'il propose d'annuler la gratuité sans consulter les autres ministres il devient un amateur. Intéressant.

2- Et quelle est le pourcentage qu'il a annoncé ?


Faire payer les etudes superieures aux " riches" n'est qu'une façon detournée de les faire payer au plus grand nombre dans pas longtemps .

Il a dit ça ? Soit je deviens sourd soit j'ai du mal à comprendre ce que les autres disent. Je devrais consulter un médecin ou peut-être un psy :/


La justice sociale se fait via l'impot. Si ils ont besoin d'argent et qu'il veulent faire contribuer les riches, il n'ont qu'à augmenter les impot sur les tranches superieures .

Parce que tous les gentils marocains payent leurs impôts :) , y en a pas un qui cache son revenue, ni sa richesse pour échapper au fisc.


Pour finir il ne parle pas des places supplementaires, ni de nouvelles écoles ni de nouvelles universités .

Je commence sincèrement à douter de tes capacités à écouter, analyser et comprendre ce que les autres disent, ça commence à m’inquiéter.

Parce que tous les gentils marocains payent leurs impôts :) , y en a pas un qui cache son revenue, ni sa richesse pour échapper au fisc.

Ah enfin !!!!!

Tu as trouvé le noeud du probleme, son gouvernement au lieu de decider des augmentations generales, devrait d'abord s'atteler à faire respecter la loi et à lutter efficacement contre le blanchissement d'argent et l'evasion fiscale . La moitié de l'economie voire plus est informelle, voila ou trouver de l'argent .

Avant les elecctions c'etait nous allons combattre la corruption et l'economie de rente, une fois élus ils vont à Davos et font payer l'enseignement .

Parce que faire payer l'enseignement remplacera l'argent non payé par les "citoyens".
Ne mélangeons pas tous, là, on est en train de parler d’éducation et non de blanchiment d'argent et autres tralala qui font souffrir l’économie marocaine.

Parce que faire payer l'enseignement remplacera l'argent non payé par les "citoyens".
Ne mélangeons pas tous, là, on est en train de parler d’éducation et non de blanchiment d'argent et autres tralala qui font souffrir l’économie marocaine.

L'education mon cher il faut l'encourager pas lui mettre des battons dans les roues . surtout dans un pays comme le Maroc .

Riches ou pauvres on s'en fout . nous avons besoin de cadres, de medecins et d'ingenieurs . c'est eux qui creent les richesses . c'est un investissement, le meilleur de tous .

^^ Ce n'est pas les frais d'inscription qui vont les décourager. Par contre de nouveaux laboratoires, des hôpitaux propres vont avoir un effet positif sur l'envie de l'etudiant d'apprendre :)


L'education mon cher il faut l'encourager pas lui mettre des battons dans les roues . surtout dans un pays comme le Maroc .

Riches ou pauvres on s'en fout . nous avons besoin de cadres, de medecins et d'ingenieurs . c'est eux qui creent les richesses . c'est un investissement, le meilleur de tous .

Va dire ça à l'oncle Sam, il te rira au nez :)

^^ Ce n'est pas les frais d'inscription qui vont les décourager.

tu regarde ça d'un point de vue financier moi je le regarde d'un point de vue ideologique. le cout de l'enseignement doit être le même pour tous le reequilibrage doit se faire par les taxes et les impots . de toute façon, presenté comme tel ce texte est anti-constitutionel parce que discriminatoire .


Va dire ça à l'oncle Sam, il te rira au nez :)

Je ne suis pas americain et ce n'est pas un modele de sociéte que j'admire .

Tu devrais te renseigner sur la catastrophe qui s'annonce sur les marchés financiers à propos des prêts étudiants americains .

tu regarde ça d'un point de vue financier moi je le regarde d'un point de vue ideologique. le cout de l'enseignement doit être le même pour tous le reequilibrage doit se faire par les taxes et les impots . de toute façon, presenté comme tel ce texte est anti-constitutionel parce que discriminatoire .


Tu sais, c'est l'argent qui va payer la formation et non le regard que les étudiants portent sur leurs universités.


Je ne suis pas americain et ce n'est pas un modele de sociéte que j'admire .

Tu devrais te renseigner sur la catastrophe qui s'annonce sur les marchés financiers à propos des prêts étudiants americains .

Et pourtant, les USA est la 1ère puissance économique mondiale.

Et pourtant, les USA est la 1ère puissance économique mondiale.

Grâce aux frais d'inscriptions ?

Non, grâce à leur sens inné du business.

Non, grâce à leur sens inné du business.

Et qu'est ce que cela a à voir avec notre discussion sur les etudes superieures au maroc ?

Une formation contre de l'argent (pour les étudiants de familles aisées)
On ne demande pas aux familles de s'endetter, seulement de payer des frais d'inscriptions.

Voilà un petit aperçu du paradis americain:)

Les prêts étudiants font trembler l'Amérique


Par Pierre-Yves Dugua Mis à jour le 13/06/2012 à 16:51 | publié le 12/06/2012 à 19:09


Le chômage met en péril le remboursement des dettes des étudiants, dont le montant dépasse 1000 milliards de dollars. Un risque pour le budget fédéral et les banques.

Attention danger. Cinq ans après les subprimes, les banquiers américains ont des sueurs froides lorsqu'ils regardent leurs encours de prêts aux étudiants. Chaque seconde qui passe, la dette accumulée par les jeunes Américains pour financer leurs études augmente de 2854 dollars. Au total, ces prêts dépassent les 1000 milliards de dollars.

Et le volume ne cesse d'augmenter (+ 293 milliards de dollars depuis 2008), alors que les autres formes d'endettement marquent le pas, notamment les crédits immobiliers et la dette sur cartes de crédit. Selon les derniers chiffres de la Réserve fédérale de New York, depuis le pic d'endettement de la fin 2008, le stock de dettes des particuliers a plongé de 1530 milliards de dollars.

Jusqu'en 2007, avant la grande crise économique consécutive aux subprimes, les étudiants trouvaient des emplois sans trop de problème à la sortie de l'université, ce qui leur permettait de rembourser assez facilement leurs emprunts. C'est beaucoup moins vrai aujourd'hui. Le marasme qui frappe encore le marché du travail, trois ans après la fin de la récession, bouleverse la donne. Non seulement les étudiants peinent à trouver un emploi, mais les salaires des jeunes diplômés sont revus à la baisse.

Ajoutons qu'ils sont de plus en plus nombreux à vouloir faire des études supérieures. Le taux de chômage est pratiquement deux fois plus faible pour les diplômés d'université. Enfin, pour ne rien arranger, les droits de scolarité augmentent nettement plus vite que l'inflation, tant dans les universités publiques que privées…

L'addition de tous ces facteurs n'est guère rassurante. Les Américains débutent leur vie professionnelle handicapée par un endettement sans précédent. Le tout avec un arrière-goût de subprime. Les emprunteurs deviennent de moins en moins solvables. À preuve, le taux de défaut sur ce type de crédit approche encore 9%, contre 6% il y a dix ans. Il a cependant diminué par rapport à un sommet de 9,17% au troisième trimestre 2010.

Scénario catastrophe

Le sujet est désormais politique et envenime le débat électoral entre démocrates et républicains. 85% de ce stock de dette est garanti par l'État fédéral. Or, si le Congrès ne vote pas un compromis avant la fin du mois, le taux des nouveaux prêts aux étudiants qui sont non seulement garantis, mais aussi bonifiés, va doubler. Il passera de 3,4% à 6,8%. Pour éviter un tel scénario, il faut trouver 6 milliards de dollars rapidement.

Les républicains, majoritaires à la Chambre des représentants, ont bien leur idée. Ils veulent prendre cette somme dans le programme de santé. Les démocrates, majoritaires au Sénat, souhaitent quant à eux augmenter les impôts des plus riches.

Le parallèle avec les subprimes est encore plus criant pour les prêts bancaires directs aux étudiants qui échappent aux garanties fédérales. Trois millions de jeunes Américains ont choisi cette voie, souvent pour compléter d'autres types de prêts. Souvent mal informés, ils découvrent, comme l'ont fait en 2006-2008 les ménages aux ressources modestes ayant souscrit des prêts immobiliers, que leurs taux d'intérêt peuvent brusquement grimper et dépasser 10%. Le scénario catastrophe.
http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2012/06/12/20002-20120612ARTFIG00656-les-prets-etudiants-font-trembler-l-amerique.php

Wach le ministre a dit:" On va endetter les étudiants." ?

Wach le ministre a dit:" On va endetter les étudiants." ?

Je voulais juste te montrer ou mène ce genre de politique .

Oui, c'est parce qu'aux USA tous le monde paye, même les étudiants de classes défavorisées :/

Oui, c'est parce qu'aux USA tous le monde paye, même les étudiants de classes défavorisées :/

Je ne suis pas sûr que les classes defavorisées aient acces à ce genre de prêt c'est plus la classe moyenne .

les etudiants pauvres c'est soit les bourses soit le car-wash .

Je ne suis pas sûr que les classes defavorisées aient acces à ce genre de prêt c'est plus la classe moyenne .

les etudiants pauvres c'est soit les bourses soit le car-wash .

Avec l’état de l’éducation de la fac, c'est le car-wash , diplôme ou pas diplôme, avec son sur nom très connu La Formation Accélérée au Chômage

Je ne suis pas sûr que les classes defavorisées aient acces à ce genre de prêt c'est plus la classe moyenne .

les etudiants pauvres c'est soit les bourses soit le car-wash .

Pour les étudiants de classe défavorisée, les banques étudient leur dossier (notes + entretien...) avant de leurs donner un prêt.
Sinon c'est des bourses d’études oula des boulots le soir.

Avec l’état de l’éducation de la fac, c'est le car-wash , diplôme ou pas diplôme, avec son sur nom très connu La Formation Accélérée au Chômage

:lol::lol::lol:

C'est là ou on attendait les premieres reformes mais bon ils ont d'autres priorités .

احترم نفسك و لا تسب أم رجل ارتضاه المغاربة أو جزء منهم رئيسا لحكومتهم و مسؤولا عنهم ، و لا تعطي نفسك طول لسان تظهره وراء الشاشات و قد تبلعه عند أول خطوة في الشارع، وعجرفة جوج فرنك تلك التي تعلو محياك عادة و أنت تتحدث عمن تراهم فخامتك ''بسطاء المغاربة '' لا تواتيك صدقني مع هذا الرجل لأنه إن كان جاها فهو في مركز لم و لن يبلغه أي واحد من عشيرتك كفاءة كان ذلك أو وصولية .نجزم بذلك لأنك وجه أهلك بين الناس و قد رأيناك. و إن كان نسبا تفاخرا فارغا بالأصول فهو من بيت فاسي عريق و ليس كمن يدعي للقوم وصلا و هو ليس منهم فقط فخفخة خاوية و ذلك حال بعضكم هنا ،و مع ذلك و رغم أصله و لأنه من فرع فقير في تلك العائلة فقد باع جافيل ديال العبار في أحياء العكاري يوما و لم يمد يده للناس.
فدع أنت و زمرتك هنا ذلك التعجرف الفارغ فأغلبكم تراه يعيش على الكفاف و يأتي يتقزقز تقزقز الدمدومة على الناس هنا،يضن أنه سيدهشر أحدا.

:banned:

Bayen liya sebnou M6 meziane w galih jme3 rassek chwiya oula nsifete immak l se7ra. :laugh:

:lol: @ Immak ! Ch7al hadi massme3t had l'expression !

Saraha mnin sma3t lkhbar dial hadf majania dial ta3lim f lawal ma fhamtch 3lach darou had lkhotwa
walakin daba fhamt w ana te9riban m3a had l khotwa hit :

- la nass li myassar 3lihoum lah khelso wahed le9der dial lflous ( w 9erraw wladhoum f bladhoum )

ghadi tweli 3end lhoukouma mtiyazat akbar bhal :

te9tased leflous d da3m ltoulab bach ye9raw ( lhakama l jayida )
tzid tda3am l kouliyat w l jami3at men nahit l mawad li ki khedmo biha ( da3m idafi )
binae dial a9sam oukhra w ziyadat 3adad l ma9a3id w 3lach la binae kouliyat w jami3at b takhasousat oukhra
ziyadat 3adad l ahyae l jami3ia w nkheliw nass li b3ad hta houma ye9raw
ziyada f rawatib l asasida l jami3iyin w f l3adad dialhoum w hada li ghadi yen9as men iktidad f l a9sam

kandon anno hada howa tawajouh dial lwazir daoudi walakin khas nkouno mtaf9in 3la wahed l haja :

- lekhlas dial lwajibat dial ta9yid ma ki 3tiwch l asba9ia f achyae ma3roufa ( no9at - afdalia f lkoulia ... ) walakin hia khotwa tacharokia , bhal li ka tcharek b l afkar ka tcharek hta b lmal la mostata3 ...
- lekhlas khaso ykoun mobachara b fla banque hit rakoun 3arfin koul blasa fiha lflous ki koun fiha sda3 w ydiro chi lajna tabe3 hadchi ...

ach bane likoum ?

^^ wa ta sir tn3ss, kaytshab lik lmghrib howa norvège ola danemark :lol:
50% dyal cha3b rah fa9ir ila hiydti dak sondo9 lma9assa ghadi iwliw 90%
achkhsk al3ryan lkhatm a moulay

^^ wa ta sir tn3ss, kaytshab lik lmghrib howa norvège ola danemark :lol:
50% dyal cha3b rah fa9ir ila hiydti dak sondo9 lma9assa ghadi iwliw 90%
achkhsk al3ryan lkhatm a moulay

bon , je crois que tu peut dire tout sa d'une façon plus poliment
de toute façon le ministre en personne a dis que les marocains ( riches ) vont pays qu'une petite somme d'argent
alors pourquoi exagérer a ce grand point
- ila kan 90% dial lemgharba fo9ara wla taba9a mtwasta w ma ghadi ykhalso walo idan lach had leghwat kamel
( wakila b9aw fihoum wlad lemrafhin )

^^ dsl si j'était pas polis :lol:
en tout cas on sait tous que le Maroc a, depuis plusieurs années , choisit le chemin de la privatisation, donc que se sois aujourd'hui ou demin on finira par privatiser tout les secteurs publiques ce n'est qu'une question de temps :D

mdrrrrr sbitar aliouine 2012

H5BWcNWq9B4

^^:lol:makayen mayedar fmirikan fouaqt ramdan.

احترم نفسك و لا تسب أم رجل ارتضاه المغاربة أو جزء منهم رئيسا لحكومتهم و مسؤولا عنهم ، و لا تعطي نفسك طول لسان تظهره وراء الشاشات و قد تبلعه عند أول خطوة في الشارع، وعجرفة جوج فرنك تلك التي تعلو محياك عادة و أنت تتحدث عمن تراهم فخامتك ''بسطاء المغاربة '' لا تواتيك صدقني مع هذا الرجل لأنه إن كان جاها فهو في مركز لم و لن يبلغه أي واحد من عشيرتك كفاءة كان ذلك أو وصولية .نجزم بذلك لأنك وجه أهلك بين الناس و قد رأيناك. و إن كان نسبا تفاخرا فارغا بالأصول فهو من بيت فاسي عريق و ليس كمن يدعي للقوم وصلا و هو ليس منهم فقط فخفخة خاوية و ذلك حال بعضكم هنا ،و مع ذلك و رغم أصله و لأنه من فرع فقير في تلك العائلة فقد باع جافيل ديال العبار في أحياء العكاري يوما و لم يمد يده للناس.
فدع أنت و زمرتك هنا ذلك التعجرف الفارغ فأغلبكم تراه يعيش على الكفاف و يأتي يتقزقز تقزقز الدمدومة على الناس هنا،يضن أنه سيدهشر أحدا.

sutout dak le beur weld l'illettré qu'est ce qu'il adore faire le fassi wannabe pour à la fin aller sur ebay chercher un billet d'avion je vous laisse deviner qui c'est.

sutout dak le beur weld l'illettré qu'est ce qu'il adore faire le fassi wannabe pour à la fin aller sur ebay chercher un billet d'avion je vous laisse deviner qui c'est.

Et un brig de 3 jours pour toi.

derp

Pffffffff


Benkirane says in an interview with Al Jazeera that the government can't fight corruption..
"We can not look for crimes in every corner of the state, because this is a crime against the nation", says Abdelilah Benkirane at "Bila Houdoud" .
"The government wants to turn the page. Who has stolen money etc, may God forgive you'' People who continue this acts, may god punish them''
Benkirane, says the arrest of corrupt people is impossible. Because this would create a witch-hunt in the society".


Source: bladna.nl

^^ Je pense que ce soir c'est la 2eme partie de l'interview sur Al Jazeera non ?

^^ yes and here it is :lol::
Gl73rGFDlK8

Morocco: Can the Third Way Succeed?

08/02/2012
Marina Ottaway

http://moroccoboard.com/492-news-release/5668-morocco-can-the-third-way-succeed

Morocco’s Islamists: In Power Without Power


08/03/12

David Ottaway
Seven months after an Islamist became prime minister for the first time in Morocco’s history, it remains as nebulous here as in Tunisia and Egypt what the Islamists coming to power really portends. It is a conundrum that Islamist-wary Western capitals and independent analysts are all struggling to fathom.
In Morocco, King Mohammed VI has yet to yield any real authority under a new constitution, which requires him to pick the prime minister from the winning party of parliamentary elections won last November by the moderate Islamist Justice and Development Party (PJD).

Its leader, Abdelilah Benkirane, now heads the government but is doing everything to avoid confrontation with the king. As a result, nothing of real substance has changed so far nor is it expected to anytime soon.
“In Morocco, everything appears to change so that nothing really changes,” commented a prominent Moroccan news analyst, who asked to remain anonymous because of his current falling out with the king. In his view, Benkirane has served to “stop the Arab Spring in Morocco” and his party has played the role of the king’s “shock absorber” from pressures for real political reform.
A common prediction is that Benkirane (an Islamist) will prove no more successful in turning Morocco to the right than was Abderrahmane Youssoufi (a socialist) in shifting it to the left after being called back from political exile in France by the late King Hassan to become prime minister in 1998.
If Benkirane’s PJD does fail, the likely outcome is the rise of more militant Islamists already mobilizing in anticipation.
King Mohammed VI has proven the most agile of the Arab world’s eight monarchs in responding to reform pressures generated by the popular uprisings of last year that toppled the three long-ruling autocratic leaders in Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya. He stopped a widening protest movement in its tracks by rushing through a new constitution in four months, which was overwhelmingly approved in a referendum last July. He committed himself to appointing the prime minister from the winning party in national elections, widening parliament’s powers, and creating an independent judiciary.
But the king still remains “supreme arbiter” in all spheres; he is head of the armed forces and the highest religious authority in the land bearing the title “Commander of the Faithful.” Whether he is a true reformer or just a master manipulator is yet to be seen.
The new constitution requires, in theory, a lot of power-sharing between the king and prime minister; how this will work out, in practice, is the question of the day. Right now, there is a sense of calculated gamesmanship by both sides as they discuss new government appointments, Islamic measures for the media, and reform of the judiciary. Many of the constitution’s provisions still require “organic laws” that both the prime minister and the king must approve to take effect.
“We are developing cooperation with the king step by step,” said Benkirane’s Minister of Communication Mustapha El Khalfi. “People think democracy will come as a result of conflict between the monarchy and the government. They are completely wrong. Democracy will be the result of cooperation between the two.”
The PJD has a tenuous foothold in power. It holds only 107 out of 395 seats in the lower elected house of parliament and 11 out of 31 cabinet posts. The upper house, indirectly elected by municipal notables, is still dominated by the king’s supporters; new local elections will not be held until 2013. The PJD is also constrained by leading a coalition government that includes both ex-communists and pro-royalists.
Still, unlike previous prime ministers, Benkirane has quickly proven a popular, telegenic figure. He makes monthly televised appearances before parliament, not only to answer questions but to defend and build support for his government, even its unpopular decisions. As a result, a recent 20 percent increase for a liter of gasoline provoked no street protests. Nor has a bill to assure amnesty to military personnel for abuses committed while on duty.
El Khalfi pointed to some early PJD accomplishments in forging cooperation with the king starting with agreement on the appointment of senior government officials. The monarch would continue to name his choices for 40-odd “strategic positions,” but the PJD now has the right to fill 1,140 others. Together, they had also launched a new national health services program, benefiting 8.5 million poor Moroccans and financed by a one percent surtax on private companies’ earnings. There had also been agreement on cuts in operating budgets for all ministries that would help reduce the government’s deficit from 8.5 to 6 percent of GDP.
The minister made no mention, however, of one embarrassing faux pas—his own attempt to change guidelines for state TV channels requiring notification of prayer time and more programs in Arabic at the expense of French and Spanish programs. When the king heard of the proposed changes, he reproached El Khalfi by appointing a new commission headed by a leftist minister unlikely to approve such changes.
Meanwhile, more militant Islamist groups that have refused so far to participate in parliamentary elections are waiting to see this unprecedented experiment in royal-Islamist “cohabitation” fail. They are deemed by Moroccan and outside analysts a far more serious threat to the king than the youth-led, secular, pro-democracy February 20 Movement, whose widening street protests in early 2011 provoked the new constitution.
Already, the Al-Adl wal-Ihsan (Justice and Spirituality) movement that rejects the king as Commander of the Faithful and hints at a “republic” to replace the monarchy is preparing for its entry into politics. Led by the reclusive, 83-year-old Sheikh Abdul Salam Yassin, the group mixes elements of Sufi mysticism, Salafi fundamentalism, and Muslim Brotherhood-style social activism. It is widely believed to have considerably more followers than Benkirane’s PJD but has eschewed any participation in the monarchy.
This may be about to change.


“We are ready. It’s just a question of conditions,” said Omar Iharchane, head of the movement’s research center.
Though al-Adl wal-Ihsan is officially outlawed, it was already a registered “political association,” according to Iharchane. It had internal structures in place ready to launch a political party and had demonstrated its political bent by quickly becoming the mainstay of the February 20 Movement. Al-Adl wal-Ihsan’s political clout was made clear last December when it withdrew from the pro-democracy movement and its momentum fizzled.
Iharchane predicted Morocco was headed for a second uprising because of its “dire social and economic problems,” adding “we also see problems in the implementation of the new constitution in reality.” He implied that another outbreak of mass protests and PJD’s failure were the “conditions” al-Adl wal-Ihsan was awaiting to make its bid for power.
Even more stridently ultra-fundamentalist Islamists, former “Salafi jihadists,” have begun reappearing in public wearing their singular long beards and short white robes. Another of King Mohammed’s gestures to the Arab Spring was the release from prison in April 2011 of three of their sheikhs. They had been implicated in the May 2003 bombings of five sites in Casablanca that killed 45 people, including 12 suicide bombers. Over 1,000 Salafis were subsequently arrested, and 700 are still in prison. One of the released sheikhs, Mohammed Fizazi, has talked openly of forming a Salafi party as has already happened in Egypt and Tunisia.
But Anas Haloui, spokesman for the remaining Salafi detainees, doubted such a move was imminent. He noted there was no agreement among Morocco’s Salafi leaders about recognition of the king’s political or religious authority. Those who followed the Wahhabi traditions of Saudi Arabia, where the king is viewed as prime protector of the religious establishment, accepted Mohammed VI as “Commander of the Faithful.” Others did not, and some rejected the king in any role.
Several Moroccan analysts said the Salafis were badly fragmented into as many as six groupings. “Maybe they will form a non-governmental organization first,” said Sanaa Karim, a religious affairs reporter for the PJD newspaper Attajdid. In any case, their numbers were only “some hundreds” and they had no hope of matching the success of Egypt’s Salafis, who won a surprising 28 percent of the vote in last year’s elections.
“They have no common leader and no common ground,” she remarked. But this was also true of Egyptian Salafis.



Source:
http://moroccoboard.com/492-news-release/5670-morocco-s-islamists-in-power-without-power#comments#comments

تقرير 'اليونسكو' يرسم صورة قاتمة للتعليم بالمغرب

http://www.lakome.com/images/resized/images/stories/2012/0730/ta3limmaroc_444_333.jpg http://83.img.v4.skyrock.net/83a/lamya-maroc92/pics/2092663251_small_2.jpg

المغرب يحتل مراتب متأخرة في نسب التمدرس خلف دول عربية وإفريقية
رسم تقرير صدر عن معهد "اليونسكو" للإحصاءات، صورة سوداوية عن الوضع التعليمي بالمغرب، وأشار التقرير الذي قدم مقارنة إحصائية للتعليم في العالم لسنة 2011، إلى أن المغرب يحتل مراتب متأخرة في أغلب المؤشرات مقارنة مع دول عربية وإفريقية عديدة.
http://www.lakome.com/%D9%85%D8%AC%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%B9/84-%D9%85%D8%AC%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%B9/16573-%D8%AA%D9%82%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%88%D9%86%D8%B3%D9%83%D9%88-%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%B3%D9%85-%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%A9-%D9%84%D9%84%D8%AA%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%85-%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%BA%D8%B1%D8%A8.html

Je ne comprends pas le classement de l'UNESCO alors qu'on a des écoles de qualité royale.

:lol:
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/c51.0.403.403/p403x403/395799_456430571057470_2068967103_n.jpg

:hilarious

The unbelievable Irresponsibility of Mr. Benkirane


By Ahmed Benchemsi

Morocco World News

Santa Clara, California, August 5, 2012

(“My policy against corruption, is as follows: “God forgives what occurred in the past, and if anyone backslides, God will take revenge from him”)
So here is what was said by the head of the Moroccan government, Abdelilah Benkirane, on Al Jazeera on 25 July 2012.

In itself the fact of allowing those who have looted the state coffers to get away so lightly is shocking. It is difficult to establish a culture of accountability when one grants an amnesty to all corrupt people.

But if one can be against the general amnesty (which is my case), this principle is not totally absurd either, and it was not invented by Mr. Benkirane. This is a policy that, sometimes, in other countries and other contexts, has yielded some results.

Its principles are as follows:

1. Build a solid arsenal of law enforcement, especially a strong and independent justice system, which would be reluctant to grant any favors;

2. Once this arsenal is functional, that is to say ready to be set in motion immediately and relentlessly, to announce a general amnesty coupled with a firm policy of zero tolerance from the time the amnesty is granted;

3. From that same moment, to be ready to swiftly and severely punish any offender and under maximum media coverage. The objective of this would be to quickly set epochal examples to demonstrate that the amnesty was a measure of reconciliation and social appeasement, not a weakness of the state.

As we can see, the general amnesty is a practice that has its rules and logic. We cannot pronounce it without being solidly prepared.

But what did the leader of the Moroccan government do? He declared a general amnesty, as simple as that, during an interview. His sole argument was a verse from the Quran! What could function only as a deliberately and carefully planned state policy became, in the mouth of Mr. Benkirane, a rhetorical figure, or worse still, an oratorical moment with a religious connotation.

The interviewer of Al Jazeera could not believe his ears. He interrupted the head of government, insisting that Morocco was “the only country in the region to adopt the policy of the general amnesty.” One would think that upon hearing this, Mr. Benkirane would wake up, and suddenly realize that the general amnesty is a “policy” and not a cookie cutter formula to be announced in an interview without measuring its impact.

But no, showing off is also part of the personality of our head of government. Mr Benkirane has persisted, twisting the folds of his mouth as a sign of contemptuous defiance, as he knows to do so well: “Yes sir, it is in the Quran: God will take revenge.” Subliminal message to all those who will criticize this sally: “What, you do not believe in God?”

More than the principle of amnesty (which remains questionable, although its three rules are applied), it is the incredible irresponsibility of Abdelilah Benkirane that really shocked me. Does this man realize what he says? Does he realize that his cheeky spontaneity, which contributed to his success when he was in opposition, is now totally inappropriate given the function he holds?

When you are a Prime Minister, Mr Benkirane, you do not say anything, especially on something as serious as corruption. Morocco has suffered enough from this scourge, no need to add a dose of ridicule.



Source: http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2012/08/50595/the-unbelievable-irresponsibility-of-mr-benkirane/

:lol:
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/c51.0.403.403/p403x403/395799_456430571057470_2068967103_n.jpg

Ce qui m'a fait marré le plus c'est la gueule de ElKhlifi :lol:

تقرير 'اليونسكو' يرسم صورة قاتمة للتعليم بالمغرب

http://www.lakome.com/images/resized/images/stories/2012/0730/ta3limmaroc_444_333.jpg http://83.img.v4.skyrock.net/83a/lamya-maroc92/pics/2092663251_small_2.jpg



Je ne comprends pas le classement de l'UNESCO alors qu'on a des écoles de qualité royale.

very sad situation:ohno:

i understand your point....but then what about the teacher? does not he/she have some responsabilty to the kids and classroom?
it looks dirty and have not be cleaned for a long time! how can someone work there in such a state?
yes the govermnent have a lot to answer for but lets not forget that the teacher has responsabilities too besides teaching

very sad situation:ohno:

i understand your point....but then what about the teacher? does not he/she have some responsabilty to the kids and classroom?
it looks dirty and have not be cleaned for a long time! how can someone work there in such a state?
yes the govermnent have a lot to answer for but lets not forget that the teacher has responsabilities too besides teaching

:lol::lol:funny

galles fo9 lkorssi dyallek relaaax fchi blasa f europe ,kat3ti dorous lmo3aliem meskien ,gallek kaykhelli classroom mosekh?:lol:

fenahouwa aslan had classroom?mabentlekch l7ala lmozreya dyal dok talamid?malik dyal had talamid li howa aghna molouk l3alam

wallah mate7chem

:lol::lol:funny

galles fo9 lkorssi dyallek relaaax fchi blasa f europe ,kat3ti dorous lmo3aliem meskien ,gallek kaykhelli classroom mosekh?:lol:

fenahouwa aslan had classroom?mabentlekch l7ala lmozreya dyal dok talamid?malik dyal had talamid li howa aghna molouk l3alam

wallah mate7chem

:ohno:

eh 3endek sa7 ana fi europa hada makay3nish ana ma 3endish l7a9 n3ti lopinion diali...:ohno:

donc binissba lik nta...ash kan 3la lprof ydir? yeji ou may9ari 7ta wa7ed 7int l9issm moussekh? oula maydir walou ge3?

koulshi 3aref ash kay douz fil lmaghrib walakin ma kat3nish bianna lprof ya9arri talamid fil lwasakh....

walakin nadafa mach point fort dilna :-)

wallah mate7chem
allah yessme7 lik :-)

:ohno:

eh 3endek sa7 ana fi europa hada makay3nish ana ma 3endish l7a9 n3ti lopinion diali...:ohno:

donc binissba lik nta...ash kan 3la lprof ydir? yeji ou may9ari 7ta wa7ed 7int l9issm moussekh? oula maydir walou ge3?

koulshi 3aref ash kay douz fil lmaghrib walakin ma kat3nish bianna lprof ya9arri talamid fil lwasakh....

walakin nadafa mach point fort dilna :-)


allah yessme7 lik :-)

Je trouve ça un peu reducteur et raciste, au contraire, moi je trouve que les marocains sont très propres, le souci c'est l'espace public mais ça c'est une question d'organisation et de budget, comme pour tout ce qui est service public au maroc .

Je trouve ça un peu reducteur et raciste, au contraire, moi je trouve que les marocains sont très propres, le souci c'est l'espace public mais ça c'est une question d'organisation et de budget, comme pour tout ce qui est service public au maroc .

ach men raciste????

ana maghribi ou ngoulha ou n3awdha, lmaghrba ma3endhoumch m3a nadafa....wa ti9 oul ga3la

shouf dik la salle makaynch 3liha tkoun moussekha kihoukak...niveau dial nadafa dial hadak lprof 0

shouf ghir fil finission dial lkhadema, fin ma mcheti kayn zbel...ou bezzaf ness mazal kaydirou toilette dialohoum fi zen9a fil lmidinates....ou sir ou sir.
ness 7tahouma khasshoum ykounou chwiya proactif ou machi daymen yba9aw yatssenaw fi douwla tdir lihoum koulchi....

oubla mat9aren liya meddrassa 3oumoumiya m3a wou7da dial would lmalik...it does not make sense :ohno:

ach men raciste????

ana maghribi ou ngoulha ou n3awdha, lmaghrba ma3endhoumch m3a nadafa....wa ti9 oul ga3la

shouf dik la salle makaynch 3liha tkoun moussekha kihoukak...niveau dial nadafa dial hadak lprof 0

shouf ghir fil finission dial lkhadema, fin ma mcheti kayn zbel...ou bezzaf ness mazal kaydirou toilette dialohoum fi zen9a fil lmidinates....ou sir ou sir.
ness 7tahouma khasshoum ykounou chwiya proactif ou machi daymen yba9aw yatssenaw fi douwla tdir lihoum koulchi....

oubla mat9aren liya meddrassa 3oumoumiya m3a wou7da dial would lmalik...it does not make sense :ohno:

Désolé, mais tu rentres chez n'importe quel pauvre au maroc ( ceux qui ont accès à l'eau ) et même dans les campagnes, c'est toujours nickel .

Apres la propreté publique c'est un probleme d'organisation, il y a certes des incivilités mais c'est surtout un manque d'infrastructures et de moyens .

Khay Tangerin sm7 lia bzaf walakine ghan dem souti ldoukkali ou ngoul lik : 7na lmgharba mouskhine. :lol:
M3a kamil 7tiramati walakine hada hoa lwa9i3 dialna. Sir a khoya chouf nass fine 3aychine flkarianate msaken ou dour l9ezdir ou tmete3 lia bnadafa ou n9a. 3liha dima ki tchkao mn lwad l7ar. Wa chouf gha zna9i dialna bla ga3 lkarianate ki dayrine. Chouha :ohno:

J'ai juste été choqué, quand j'ai été en Turquie, de voir à quel point les turcs sont propres. Les rues d'Istanbul et d'Ankara sont étincellantes. Même en pleine campagne en Cappadoce, je n'ai même pas vu le moinde sachet en plastique, la moindre cannette... Macha'allah! :ohno:

:lol:
9IgvJpETHNo

http://www.lakome.com/images/resized/images/stories/2012/0730/ta3limmaroc_444_333.jpg http://83.img.v4.skyrock.net/83a/lamya-maroc92/pics/2092663251_small_2.jpg

very sad situation:ohno:
i understand your point....but then what about the teacher? does not he/she have some responsabilty to the kids and classroom?
it looks dirty and have not be cleaned for a long time! how can someone work there in such a state?
yes the govermnent have a lot to answer for but lets not forget that the teacher has responsabilities too besides teaching

Ta7att assawma3a 3al9o al7ajjam, way off target.

1/ That's all what you see in that picture? It's not clean? that's your conclusion?

2/ Let's assume that the classroom is CLEAN. How about the seating? Should the teacher play the role of a carpenter and build some tables?

3/ What if the roof is leaking? should we blame it on the teacher too? Should he build new solid walls?

4/ How about the schools located in the Moyen Atlas when classrooms are like freezers during the winter? should the teacher build a fireplace for the students? It's his responsability too?

The teacher has responsibilities. True. But you cannot force him to do some charity or voluntary works.
Morocco is not as poor as Poland or Portugal. These countries cannot afford the TGV. Morocco can. We cannot accept then to have one single school in Morocco in such a poor state.
This is TGVland for god's sake !

..................
oubla mat9aren liya meddrassa 3oumoumiya m3a wou7da dial would lmalik...it does not make sense :ohno:

That comparison makes sense. How come the poor kid family pays taxes to finance the prince's school?

It's a legitimate question that many don't dare to ask. They'll tell you that's the way it is. He's a prince. He needs your taxes to pay for his luxurious school. That's normal. Be realistic., bla bla bla.......

Ok, ok,.. let's find a common ground. I understand the prince needs a decent school. A school above the average. But please, please, don't make me pay more than what British people pay for their prince. I know, I know, Moroccan people are not as poor as the British. You got a point there......:lol:

عامل شفشاون يدهس طفلا بسيارته ويلوذ بمقر إقامته

قالت مصادر محلية من مدينة شفشاون إن عامل المدينة، امحمد اعسيلة، دهس مواطنا بسيارته وأصابه إصابة خطيرة، ولم يخضع لأية إجراءات قانونية. وحسب نفس المصادر فإن الحادث وقع يوم 6 غشت قبيل الفطور عندما كان العامل عائدا بسيارته من واد لاو، وقعت الحادثة بالمنطقة المعروفة بـ "سد البريسة". ونقل شهود عيان أن العامل كان يسير بسرعة مفرطة عندما أراد تجاوز أحد مستعملي الطريق في منعرج ورغم وجود خط متواصل، فصدم الطفل الذي كان يهم بعبور الطريق، وواصل طريقه دون أن يتوقف، وعندما حظر رجال الدرك إلى عين المكان تم نقل الطفل إلى المستشفى دون أن يقوموا بالإجراءات القانونية.
http://www.lakome.com/%D8%AC%D9%87%D8%A7%D8%AA/69-%D8%AC%D9%87%D8%A7%D8%AA/16674-%D8%B9%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%84-%D8%B4%D9%81%D8%B4%D8%A7%D9%88%D9%86-%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%87%D8%B3-%D8%B7%D9%81%D9%84%D8%A7-%D8%A8%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%AA%D9%87-%D9%88%D9%8A%D9%84%D9%88%D8%B0-%D8%A8%D9%85%D9%82%D8%B1-%D8%A5%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%87.html

Un des commentaire sure lakome.com:
هداك الطفل سقط بلعاني قدام السيد العامل نصره الله. باغي يبتز الرجل الكبير. فين عمرو شفتو عامل ديال صاحب الجلالة كيرتبك جريمة؟ حاشا لله. الرجل برئ. وهو ماشي جبان باش يهرب. عمال صاحب الجلالة لا يأتيهم المنكر لا من يمينهم ولا من شمالهم. العامل كان مسكين غير دايز بشوية 10 كلم في الساعة قل 5 كلم في الساعة قل غير كان كيدفع السيارة. لكن الولد باغي يبتز وسقط قدامو. شوفو نهار يتحاكمو عمال صاحب الجلالة عرفو بأن هداك النهار هو يوم القيامة. نجاكم الله منه.

^^ :rofl:

:cripes:

Khay Tangerin sm7 lia bzaf walakine ghan dem souti ldoukkali ou ngoul lik : 7na lmgharba mouskhine. :lol:
M3a kamil 7tiramati walakine hada hoa lwa9i3 dialna. Sir a khoya chouf nass fine 3aychine flkarianate msaken ou dour l9ezdir ou tmete3 lia bnadafa ou n9a. 3liha dima ki tchkao mn lwad l7ar. Wa chouf gha zna9i dialna bla ga3 lkarianate ki dayrine. Chouha :ohno:

J'ai juste été choqué, quand j'ai été en Turquie, de voir à quel point les turcs sont propres. Les rues d'Istanbul et d'Ankara sont étincellantes. Même en pleine campagne en Cappadoce, je n'ai même pas vu le moinde sachet en plastique, la moindre cannette... Macha'allah! :ohno:

shoukran

7ta hna lma7alat dial kebab dial turk koulha n9iya...oudial lmgharba...bla mangoulik :ohno:

@tangerin, khassek tadreb wa7ed doura fil 3alam ou 7ayed ndadrek dial shemsh ou shouf m3a ressek ki ness n9aya kter men lmaghrib

That comparison makes sense. How come the poor kid family pays taxes to finance the prince's school?

It's a legitimate question that many don't dare to ask. They'll tell you that's the way it is. He's a prince. He needs your taxes to pay for his luxurious school. That's normal. Be realistic., bla bla bla.......

Ok, ok,.. let's find a common ground. I understand the prince needs a decent school. A school above the average. But please, please, don't make me pay more than what British people pay for their prince. I know, I know, Moroccan people are not as poor as the British. You got a point there......:lol:

you are the ever sensationalist nothing more nothing less...keep up the good work :)

http://www.lakome.com/images/resized/images/stories/2012/0730/ta3limmaroc_444_333.jpg http://83.img.v4.skyrock.net/83a/lamya-maroc92/pics/2092663251_small_2.jpg



Ta7att assawma3a 3al9o al7ajjam, way off target.

1/ That's all what you see in that picture? It's not clean? that's your conclusion?

2/ Let's assume that the classroom is CLEAN. How about the seating? Should the teacher play the role of a carpenter and build some tables?

3/ What if the roof is leaking? should we blame it on the teacher too? Should he build new solid walls?

4/ How about the schools located in the Moyen Atlas when classrooms are like freezers during the winter? should the teacher build a fireplace for the students? It's his responsability too?

The teacher has responsibilities. True. But you cannot force him to do some charity or voluntary works.
Morocco is not as poor as Poland or Portugal. These countries cannot afford the TGV. Morocco can. We cannot accept then to have one single school in Morocco in such a poor state.
This is TGVland for god's sake !

as i said it is a very sad situation...but what else do you want me to say? M6 blah, makhzen blah, 7oukouma blah...everyone here knows that and no need to keep repeating the same things....if you wait for the Moroccan government to fix everything, like cleaning the classrooms or adding more chairs then you are going to wait for a long time because it is the reality...corruption AND luck of will from everyone including the citizens...
some people all they know is complain without any initiatives.
if my child was going to that school probably i would ask the teacher why is he working in that environment, and while waiting for a new revolution, maybe the parents can help....but i guess that is not reasonable to ask

so biladatlas, keep waiting for a new revolution when you can start doing something constructive

..........
if my child was going to that school probably i would ask the teacher why is he working in that environment, and while waiting for a new revolution, maybe the parents can help....but i guess that is not reasonable to ask

so biladatlas, keep waiting for a new revolution when you can start doing something constructive

You have a very special way of seeing things.
- For you whoever is criticizing the Makhzen is waiting for a new revolution! Weird.

- Before you ask the teacher why he's working in that environment he'll be the one asking you why are you sending your kids to such place? He'll tell you you better keep your kid at home where he doesn't risk a roof falling on his head.

There are many families who are gathered in associations and do their best to help. In many occasions they get the Makhzen in their way who accuses them for illegal" associations.

I think you've been disconnected from Doukala's reality long time ago.

bien au contraire c'est le "makhzen" qui accorde des aides à ce genre d'asso (financement, équipements récupéré de la douane...). tu n'as trouvé que cette madrassa rural à nous montrer
désinformation de bas fond http://www.smileyemoticone.com/Smiley/Malade/36_19_7[1].gif

^^ wa mabrouk Ramdann a VromVrom

J'ai montré deux écoles: Une du monde rural (photo gauche) et une du monde urbano-royal (photo droite). J'ai essayé d'équilibrer un peu pour ne pas avoir des mécontents. J'ai voulu montré tout le spectre en terme d'écoles au Maroc.

Voila d'autres exemples d'écoles comme reportée par Makhzen TV:

Monde rural:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qhhSj7FiVg

Monde urbano-royal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAh5BbJStkk

Comme tu le vois bien. J'ai essayé de suivre les méthode de travail de Makhzen TV. On montre tout. Du monde rural jusqu'au monde urbano-royal.

You have a very special way of seeing things.
- For you whoever is criticizing the Makhzen is waiting for a new revolution! Weird.

- Before you ask the teacher why he's working in that environment he'll be the one asking you why are you sending your kids to such place? He'll tell you you better keep your kid at home where he doesn't risk a roof falling on his head.


this attitude explains why morocco is way behind in education leagues! like i said before, keep waiting for a new revolution to fix all problems and then we can start teaching, working,...:ohno:


There are many families who are gathered in associations and do their best to help. In many occasions they get the Makhzen in their way who accuses them for illegal" associations.

I think you've been disconnected from Doukala's reality long time ago.
not really true...i dont believe it is a government policy to stand in the way of associations.

as for doukkala, well nowhere is perfect, there are problems despite it being a very rich area, but people from doukkala are optimistic and i know that parents are getting together to repair schools or even build them as long as the government provides teachers, and this is a fact!!

i have a moroccan friend of mine here in london, and he is originally from jbala, and he helps with this charity where he collects money and one of his brothers takes the money to morocco (jbala) to do good things with it. so far: a health center, community center and a school....and wait for it, the government gave them the land for all three :)

http://www.lakome.com/images/resized/images/stories/2012/0730/ta3limmaroc_444_333.jpg http://83.img.v4.skyrock.net/83a/lamya-maroc92/pics/2092663251_small_2.jpg



Ta7att assawma3a 3al9o al7ajjam, way off target.

1/ That's all what you see in that picture? It's not clean? that's your conclusion?

2/ Let's assume that the classroom is CLEAN. How about the seating? Should the teacher play the role of a carpenter and build some tables?

3/ What if the roof is leaking? should we blame it on the teacher too? Should he build new solid walls?

4/ How about the schools located in the Moyen Atlas when classrooms are like freezers during the winter? should the teacher build a fireplace for the students? It's his responsability too?

The teacher has responsibilities. True. But you cannot force him to do some charity or voluntary works.
Morocco is not as poor as Poland or Portugal. These countries cannot afford the TGV. Morocco can. We cannot accept then to have one single school in Morocco in such a poor state.
This is TGVland for god's sake !



+1

Well said, Biladatlas...Education is a basic need and a government is obligated to profide good education for all their people.

Some people here are suffering from the Stockholm syndrome, they praise the Makhazen and M6, meanwhile they prefer to live abroad .

+1

Well said, Biladatlas...Education is a basic need and a government is obligated to profide good education for all their people.

Some people here are suffering from the Stockholm syndrome, they praise the Makhazen and M6, meanwhile they prefer to live abroad .

ramadan moubarak to you too...welcome back :)

show me where i praised makhzen and M6?
or is it that if someone does NOT talk about makhzen or M6 means they like them? waw what kind of thinking is this:ohno:

very sad situation:ohno:

i understand your point....but then what about the teacher? does not he/she have some responsabilty to the kids and classroom?
it looks dirty and have not be cleaned for a long time! how can someone work there in such a state?
yes the govermnent have a lot to answer for but lets not forget that the teacher has responsabilities too besides teaching

Yes, the teacher is responsible for cleaning the classroom, feeding the students and building fucking chairs for them!

Yes, the teacher is responsible for cleaning the classroom, feeding the students and building fucking chairs for them!

if you say so!

that is all you find to say :ohno:

we all know that we have a sub-standard government but the teacher is also sub-standard. no pride at all...

Le maître ou la maîtresse ont pour seule responsabilité d'éduquer les enfants et leur inculquer le civisme. Les enfants doivent apprendre à respecter la classe, les espaces publiques et l'environnement et celà relève de la responsabilité de l'oustad. Cependant, l'état de cette classe/école est déplorable et juste inacceptable. C'est une véritable honte! Comment on peut parler d'éducation quand on voit des classes/écoles qui ne vérifient même pas les conditions les plus simples? Des classes délabrées, où sont regroupés 3,4 ou 5 niveaux d'enseignement différents et qui doivent se partager un seul professeur? Chouha tout simplement :ohno:

if you say so!

that is all you find to say :ohno:

we all know that we have a sub-standard government but the teacher is also sub-standard. no pride at all...

The teacher is the result of the Moroccan education system. They did not pop out of nowhere. They are poorly paid, badly trained, yet they are supposed to take the blame for the failure of the Moroccan regime.

this attitude explains why morocco is way behind in education leagues! like i said before, keep waiting for a new revolution to fix all problems and then we can start teaching, working,...:ohno:

Again you have a weird way of seeing things. If you criticize the Makhzen then you are waiting for a new revolution. Weird.
Morocco is behind in education because the inner circle of the regime was and is still stealing our money since the independence. They are stealing money needed for schools for roads, for hospitals, etc....

not really true...i dont believe it is a government policy to stand in the way of associations.

Again you're disconnected from MakhzenLand's reality. Do you know Mohamed VI foundation? We don't want your association to compete with Mohamed VI foundation. It is the only association allowed to distribue 7areera to Moroccan people.

Again you have a very special way of seeing things. You steal people's money. You push them to poverty and yet you ask them to build schools, hospitals and clean them. Weird.
But you are always in mute mode when it comes to putting the blame on the mafia of the Makhzen. All what you say is this: What do you want me to say? it's sad.
But you write lines and texts blaming Moroccan people. Moroccan people are always an easy target for you.

Le maître ou la maîtresse ont pour seule responsabilité d'éduquer les enfants et leur inculquer le civisme. Les enfants doivent apprendre à respecter la classe, les espaces publiques et l'environnement et celà relève de la responsabilité de l'oustad. Cependant, l'état de cette classe/école est déplorable et juste inacceptable. C'est une véritable honte! Comment on peut parler d'éducation quand on voit des classes/écoles qui ne vérifient même pas les conditions les plus simples? Des classes délabrées, où sont regroupés 3,4 ou 5 niveaux d'enseignement différents et qui doivent se partager un seul professeur? Chouha tout simplement :ohno:

+1
Et apres tu verras certains critiquer les Nations Unis lorsqu'ils nous classent parmi les derniers en termes d'IDH.

... Kada lmou3allimo an yakouna rassoulan ! :D

biladatlas 3asser 3lina tani :lol::lol: wafin

The teacher is the result of the Moroccan education system. They did not pop out of nowhere. They are poorly paid, badly trained, yet they are supposed to take the blame for the failure of the Moroccan regime.

the same applies to any profession then? badly trained, poorly paid so it is ok to drive a dirty bus! falling to pieces! dirty work place, and on and on...seems that there is no sense of pride in people nowadays:ohno:

you just dont get it! you are expecting the government to do everything and fix everything and be everywhere! that is impossible and also it is not healthy. you want people to have receposiblities and duties and fulfill them...it does not mean that the government is off the hook.

what is needed is pragmatism and civisme...and LESS DEMAGOGY

Again you have a weird way of seeing things. If you criticize the Makhzen then you are waiting for a new revolution. Weird.
Morocco is behind in education because the inner circle of the regime was and is still stealing our money since the independence. They are stealing money needed for schools for roads, for hospitals, etc....



Again you're disconnected from MakhzenLand's reality. Do you know Mohamed VI foundation? We don't want your association to compete with Mohamed VI foundation. It is the only association allowed to distribue 7areera to Moroccan people.

Again you have a very special way of seeing things. You steal people's money. You push them to poverty and yet you ask them to build schools, hospitals and clean them. Weird.
But you are always in mute mode when it comes to putting the blame on the mafia of the Makhzen. All what you say is this: What do you want me to say? it's sad.
But you write lines and texts blaming Moroccan people. Moroccan people are always an easy target for you.

seriously, you lost the argument and now clearly you do have an issue with yourself :)
we are debating a dirty classroom for fucks sake!!!!!!!!!!! and you turn it as always into either with or against makhzen.

listen, look at how many comments i wrote about the corruption in the government...maybe they are not enough...or do i have to be like you and be OBSESSED and make makhzen my raison-d'etre??

:cripes:

Benkirane Apologizes to King Mohammed VI and his advisers


Fez, August 9, 2012

In an unprecedented move, the Moroccan Prime Minister, Abdelilah Benkirane, apologizes to King Mohammed VI in the wake of an article published in the daily newspaper “Sabah” in its edition of Thursday August 9, entitled: “Benkirane: there is no communication between me and the King’s entourage.

“I can’t but apologize to His Majesty the King for any unintentional harm that I might have caused, and through him I apologize to his distinguished advisers. I avail myself of this opportunity to renew His Majesty expressions of my loyalty and appreciation to His Majesty the King. May God protect him,” Benkirane was quoted by the news website Hespress as saying.

“I regret to announce to the public that the article published by Assabah newspaper in its issue of Thursday, 9 August 2012 under the title (Benkirane: there is no communication between me and the King’s entourage) is full of slander aiming at disturbing the existing cooperation between the constitutional institutions under the leadership of His Majesty the King, may God protect him,” added Benkirane in his statement.

In an interview broadcast on Al Jazeera on July 25, Benkirane had boasted his understanding with the King, saying that he works in close consultation and harmony with him.

Many criticize the head of government, arguing that his main concern seems not to meet the Moroccan people’s main concerns, but rather to please the King and his entourage.

Others lash out at him saying that he does not have the charisma and gravitas to be heading the Moroccan government at this critical juncture in Morocco’s history.

Over the past two weeks, Benkirane came under heavy criticism when he showed his inability to fight corruption and hold corrupt officials and embezzlers to account.


http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2012/08/51248/benkirane-aplogizes-to-king-mohammed-vi-and-his-advisers/

Moroccan parlements are puppets of a higher institute.
Their main task is trying to execute what this higher institute is obliging them to do whilst the recourses to do that are dissappering into corrupted pockets.

the same applies to any profession then? badly trained, poorly paid so it is ok to drive a dirty bus! falling to pieces! dirty work place, and on and on...seems that there is no sense of pride in people nowadays:ohno:

you just dont get it! you are expecting the government to do everything and fix everything and be everywhere! that is impossible and also it is not healthy. you want people to have receposiblities and duties and fulfill them...it does not mean that the government is off the hook.

what is needed is pragmatism and civisme...and LESS DEMAGOGY

That sadly applies to you. You have no idea what you are talking about. You think that teachers hold responsibility for extremely overcrowded classrooms, rickety school rooms, lack of teaching materials, school transportation...etc and not the Ministry of education and call yourself pragmatic?

That sadly applies to you. You have no idea what you are talking about. You think that teachers hold responsibility for extremely overcrowded classrooms, rickety school rooms, lack of teaching materials, school transportation...etc and not the Ministry of education and call yourself pragmatic?

lets say we have the follwing scenario and i want to know what YOU would do:
there is a school in a small village in doukkala, the school is dirty, windows broken, not enough tables,...

1) do you stop teaching, go to the 3amala or moufetichiya, wait for someone to come in fix that, while the kids are not being educated

2) you come to a forum like this and say the makhzen is this and makhzen is that, while the elite children are being educated in fancy schools, and this makhzen still carries on just like it has for 100's of years

3) do nothing

4) as a civil person, with pride in your profession, you TRY and organise the parents, pull all possible strings and have as many problems as possible fixed...despite all known problems.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

No , here is the scenario :

- Me being a teacher , i'll try to teach them , and i'll try to make the classroom as nice as possible .

- Then i'll have to wait until " Souk day " , to go and try to arrange a meeting with the parents , and i'll ask them to give me 500 Dhs each , so i can during the AID holidays , paint the classroom , and buy tables and chairs .

- They'll answer with a " Ou ddouwla achkaddir ? 7adguin ghi fechefra ? " , or they'll tell their kids " Watta ga3la t9ra , aji khdem m3a bbak fzzre3 ! " .

Doukalli , this is the Minister of education's responsability !!! The teachers responsability is to teach !

Most of the teachers teaching in the country side , are young , single , paid peanut money , and teaching in the worst conditions ever ... Do you think they really are in the mood to clean a classroom or paint walls ?

It's the governments responsability ! The teachers become responsible only when the government is already doing a good job !

No , here is the scenario :

- Me being a teacher , i'll try to teach them , and i'll try to make the classroom as nice as possible .

- Then i'll have to wait until " Souk day " , to go and try to arrange a meeting with the parents , and i'll ask them to give me 500 Dhs each , so i can during the AID holidays , paint the classroom , and buy tables and chairs .

- They'll answer with a " Ou ddouwla achkaddir ? 7adguin ghi fechefra ? " , or they'll tell their kids " Watta ga3la t9ra , aji khdem m3a bbak fzzre3 ! " .

Doukalli , this is the Minister of education's responsability !!! The teachers responsability is to teach !

Most of the teachers teaching in the country side , are young , single , paid peanut money , and teaching in the worst conditions ever ... Do you think they really are in the mood to clean a classroom or paint walls ?

It's the governments responsability ! The teachers become responsible only when the government is already doing a good job !

This is BS, in other countries waaay more rich and developped than Morocco, teachers and students clean the classroom on a daily basis, example japan... but of course in morocco the teacher is "not in the mood" to do so ...

seriously, you lost the argument and now clearly you do have an issue with yourself :)
we are debating a dirty classroom for fucks sake!!!!!!!!!!! and you turn it as always into either with or against makhzen.

listen, look at how many comments i wrote about the corruption in the government...maybe they are not enough...or do i have to be like you and be OBSESSED and make makhzen my raison-d'etre??

I see that you can talk dirty.
Yes you wrote many comments about corruption. But as usual most of the time you blame it in the Moroccan people. You always try to shoot far away from the Makhzen.

The classroom is dirty. True. But your problem is you always focus on the finger asking you to rather look to the moon.
In that class many childreen are sitting directly to the floor. But what do you do? You focus on secondary point and you go far by asking the poor people to build their own schools. This is crazy.
People have problem to bring food to their tables and yet you're asking them to build their own schools and hospitals.
Another point that you're missing: when we build schools or hospitals we do it following certains standards. There is a liability question. If the roof falls on kid's heads who's responsible? the village? the contractor? the government?
In a modern country we build following standards and regulations. At least that's the minimum one should learn from the British comfort.

^^ Some people like to play in the distraction.
Let's take this picture again. Let's assume the teacher worked hard and now the floor is as clean as the picture to the left.
It is still a SAD picture.

http://www.lakome.com/images/resized/images/stories/2012/0730/ta3limmaroc_444_333.jpg http://83.img.v4.skyrock.net/83a/lamya-maroc92/pics/2092663251_small_2.jpg

lets say we have the follwing scenario and i want to know what YOU would do:
there is a school in a small village in doukkala, the school is dirty, windows broken, not enough tables,...

1) do you stop teaching, go to the 3amala or moufetichiya, wait for someone to come in fix that, while the kids are not being educated

2) you come to a forum like this and say the makhzen is this and makhzen is that, while the elite children are being educated in fancy schools, and this makhzen still carries on just like it has for 100's of years

3) do nothing

4) as a civil person, with pride in your profession, you TRY and organise the parents, pull all possible strings and have as many problems as possible fixed...despite all known problems.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

- First thing you need to know: even under these miserable conditions the teachers never stop teaching.
- Yes you have to go to forums and media to denounce those in charge.
- People try to help. That's what you don't understand. Many teachers in the countryside are taken care of by people. Maybe you don't know this. When a teacher gets his job for the first time he has to wait 6 to 12 months to get paid. Go ask this teacher to clean the classes during these months. The problem you're not aware of this.

- Here we're looking for solutions and not for attar9a3. If we have only one school that needs to be taken care we can ask people to help. But here we're talking about thousands of schools. We need a Plan Marshal to save our schools. We're not ranked 130th for no reason.
Our school system needs a revolution. Asking teachers to bring their chattaba to schools is a JOKE. Even the Makhzen government recognizes this.

Sur Hautes instructions royales
La Garde royale organise la distribution du repas du «Ftour» au profit des familles nécessiteuses
« En exécution des Hautes instructions royales, la Garde royale organise, au cours du mois sacré de Ramadan, la distribution du repas du «Ftour» au profit de familles nécessiteuses dans plusieurs villes du Royaume. Selon un communiqué de la Garde royale, cette opération devrait permettre de distribuer, au cours de ce mois béni, 225 000 rations au niveau de 13 sites, dont 4 à Tanger, Tétouan, Marrakech et N’khilat près de Rommani
http://www.lematin.ma/journal/Sur-Hautes--instructions-royales_La-Garde-royale--organise-la--distribution-du--repas-du-Ftour--au-profit-des-familles-necessiteuses/170134.html

Et pourquoi ne pas envoyer la garde royale pour nettoyer les écoles? :lol:
La garde royale distribue La 7areera maintenant.
Au lieu de donner des instructions pour creer un systeme ou un mecanisme ou on crée et on partage les richesses du pays (y compris La 7areera) on fait dans le ridicule.

Sa Majesté le Roi reçoit wali Bank Al-Maghrib
« Sa Majesté le Roi Mohammed VI, que Dieu l’assiste, a reçu, jeudi au Palais Royal à Casablanca, Abdellatif Jouahri, wali Bank Al-Maghrib, qui a présenté au Souverain le rapport de l’Institut d’émission sur la situation économique, monétaire et financière au titre de l’année 2011.
http://www.lematin.ma/journal/Activites-Royales_Sa-Majeste-le-Roi-recoit--wali-Bank-Al-Maghrib/170136.html

Bien sur Benkirane est Absent

S.M. le Roi Mohammed VI nomme Driss Jettou Président de la Cour des comptes
http://www.lematin.ma/journal/Activite-Royale_S-M--le-Roi--Mohammed-VI-nomme-Driss-Jettou-President-de-la-Cour-des-comptes/170135.html

Bien sur Benkirane est Absent

Gallik la nouvelle constitution :lol:

‎المخزن يستمر على نفس المنوال‫.‬ غضبة على بنكيران المدافع الشرس على الملك ودفعه الى اصدار اعتذار مذل وجعله يستعد نفسيا لما هو اكبر من مجرد اعتذار كتعديل حكومي‫.‬ لم يحضر تعيين جطو وغيب اثناء تقديم تقرير والي بنك المغرب
http://www.goud.ma/‎المخزن-يستمر-على-نفس-المنوال‫-‬-غضبة-على-بنكيران-المدافع-الشرس_a15578.html

I see that you can talk dirty.
Yes you wrote many comments about corruption. But as usual most of the time you blame it in the Moroccan people. You always try to shoot far away from the Makhzen.

The classroom is dirty. True. But your problem is you always focus on the finger asking you to rather look to the moon.
In that class many childreen are sitting directly to the floor. But what do you do? You focus on secondary point and you go far by asking the poor people to build their own schools. This is crazy.
People have problem to bring food to their tables and yet you're asking them to build their own schools and hospitals.
Another point that you're missing: when we build schools or hospitals we do it following certains standards. There is a liability question. If the roof falls on kid's heads who's responsible? the village? the contractor? the government?
In a modern country we build following standards and regulations. At least that's the minimum one should learn from the British comfort.

how would the debate take us if i was like you and all we keep doing is look at the government

all you do is complain but you provide no solutions and no way forward, and anyone that DARES suggest something different from "makhzen this, M6 that" line, you label them as pro-makhzen???

in england, i have seen teachers cleaning classrooms...teachers will get the kids to help and not JUST teach...and of course the teachers will complain.....i am sorry i should not use england as an example because they dont have Makhzen or M6 :ohno:

as i said before, keep waiting for the revolution for you you to start working

Et pourquoi ne pas envoyer la garde royale pour nettoyer les écoles? :lol:
La garde royale distribue La 7areera maintenant.
Au lieu de donner des instructions pour creer un systeme ou un mecanisme ou on crée et on partage les richesses du pays (y compris La 7areera) on fait dans le ridicule.

:ohno:

No , here is the scenario :

- Me being a teacher , i'll try to teach them , and i'll try to make the classroom as nice as possible .

- Then i'll have to wait until " Souk day " , to go and try to arrange a meeting with the parents , and i'll ask them to give me 500 Dhs each , so i can during the AID holidays , paint the classroom , and buy tables and chairs .

- They'll answer with a " Ou ddouwla achkaddir ? 7adguin ghi fechefra ? " , or they'll tell their kids " Watta ga3la t9ra , aji khdem m3a bbak fzzre3 ! " .

Doukalli , this is the Minister of education's responsability !!! The teachers responsability is to teach !

Most of the teachers teaching in the country side , are young , single , paid peanut money , and teaching in the worst conditions ever ... Do you think they really are in the mood to clean a classroom or paint walls ?

It's the governments responsability ! The teachers become responsible only when the government is already doing a good job !

that is your way, which is happening now...so no change there.

no one is denying it is not the government's responsibility, but it is easy to do nothing that have pride and being pro-active....

but you are wrong!! there are teachers who doing exactly the opposite of what you are saying, they are teaching and trying to change the environment around the school...while waiting for the government to move...

^^ Some people like to play in the distraction.
Let's take this picture again. Let's assume the teacher worked hard and now the floor is as clean as the picture to the left.
It is still a SAD picture.

http://www.lakome.com/images/resized/images/stories/2012/0730/ta3limmaroc_444_333.jpg http://83.img.v4.skyrock.net/83a/lamya-maroc92/pics/2092663251_small_2.jpg

and the reason is that you are obsessed with people in the picture in the left and i am 100% you don't give a damn about the kids in the picture in the right.
:ohno:

This is BS, in other countries waaay more rich and developped than Morocco, teachers and students clean the classroom on a daily basis, example japan... but of course in morocco the teacher is "not in the mood" to do so ...

You really talk bullshit. In other countries the Ministery of Education gives every school a budget and with that money they can buy materials, books, hire staff to repare things and hire a cleaning team.
The classes are cleaned by cleaners and not by teachers. Teachers are not responsible for cleaning a room and reparing a class, they are only responsible to profide their students with good education.

So the question should be were is the money going that the Moroccan Ministery of Education gives to schools??
Probably in the pockets of corrupt people..

how would the debate take us if i was like you and all we keep doing is look at the government

all you do is complain but you provide no solutions and no way forward, and anyone that DARES suggest something different from "makhzen this, M6 that" line, you label them as pro-makhzen???

in england, i have seen teachers cleaning classrooms...teachers will get the kids to help and not JUST teach...and of course the teachers will complain.....i am sorry i should not use england as an example because they dont have Makhzen or M6 :ohno:

as i said before, keep waiting for the revolution for you you to start working




All schools in the UK hire a cleaning team to clean the schools and hire people to fix things..I really doubt it that is are the teachers who clean, repare the classes..

The huge illitracy in Morocco says a lot, that the government of Morocco was and is never interested in profiding good education and good education facilities for their people.
M6 talks allmost never about good education in his speeches and after 12 years he still talks about the Moudawana law, reconciliation commission and the holy Sahara.....

Nobody can deny that the regime isn't shearing its wealth with its people during Ramadan..

Thank you Mohammed V Foundation for the vegetable oil, sucre, flower and tea!
http://www.nadorimg.com/photos/03082012tawziaa03.jpg
http://www.nadorimg.com/photos/03082012tawziaa04.jpg

All schools in the UK hire a cleaning team to clean the schools and hire people to fix things..I really doubt it that is are the teachers who clean, repare the classes..

The huge illitracy in Morocco says a lot, that the government of Morocco was and is never interested in profiding good education and good education facilities for their people.
M6 talks allmost never about good education in his speeches and after 12 years he still talks about the Moudawana law, reconciliation commission and the holy Sahara.....

yes true that there cleaning companies (after all this first world and not third world) that mostly in the mornings, but guess what, when there is a party, parent meetings...or emergency, then everyone do their bit, including teachers...and i dont believe that an english teacher would teach in a dirty place....standards is everything.

i will repeat again, you can wait for the government to change but till then if something is not right then it has be fixed...simples!

here is photos of a school in brazil, a country that Mister79 is so impressed with....and this is from a school in a very big city, not the countryside! yeah, school administration must be waiting for the government to do something!!

http://i1.r7.com/data/files/2C95/948E/3699/57BD/0136/9C37/0871/1D57/escola-bel%C3%A9m-2-hg-20120410.jpg
http://i1.r7.com/data/files/2C95/948E/3699/57BD/0136/9C3C/BF19/4E27/escola-bel%C3%A9m-4-hg-20120410.jpg

some associations that are helping building and renovating schools in Morocco.
some people are not sitting on their asses doing nothing but are actually making a difference to the little people.
http://www.association-noor.org/index.php?id=1
http://www.azekka.org/dossiers/cat.php?idcat=49

here is photos of a school in brazil, a country that Mister79 is so impressed with....and this is from a school in a very big city, not the countryside! yeah, school administration must be waiting for the government to do something!!

http://i1.r7.com/data/files/2C95/948E/3699/57BD/0136/9C37/0871/1D57/escola-bel%C3%A9m-2-hg-20120410.jpg
http://i1.r7.com/data/files/2C95/948E/3699/57BD/0136/9C3C/BF19/4E27/escola-bel%C3%A9m-4-hg-20120410.jpg

the president of brazil is not one the richest presidents in the world but here in morocco the king is one of the richest in the world .

HDI of brazil:0.718[7] (high) (84th
HDI of morocco:0.582 (medium) (130th

la majal lil mo9arana

how would the debate take us if i was like you and all we keep doing is look at the government

all you do is complain but you provide no solutions and no way forward, and anyone that DARES suggest something different from "makhzen this, M6 that" line, you label them as pro-makhzen???

in england, i have seen teachers cleaning classrooms...teachers will get the kids to help and not JUST teach...and of course the teachers will complain.....i am sorry i should not use england as an example because they dont have Makhzen or M6 :ohno:

as i said before, keep waiting for the revolution for you you to start working

I don't understand why you feel targeted whenever someone points fingers to the Makhzen.

Even in Morocco we see teachers cleaning classrooms, planting trees, etc. But that is not the problem of our education system in Morocco. You can clean all the schools in Morocco it will not solve the real problem of our schools and our education system in general.

And of course you should be ashamed to dare comparing between UK and MakhzenLand. Watch Britsh TV and you'll see the educational role they play. Watch now our TV and you'll see it's all about one Za3toutt. So yes, don't ever dare comparing a modern country like UK to Makhzenland.

biladatlas 3asser 3lina tani :lol::lol: wafin

Comme d'habitude: Mamfakinsh.

some associations that are helping building and renovating schools in Morocco.
some people are not sitting on their asses doing nothing but are actually making a difference to the little people.
http://www.association-noor.org/index.php?id=1
http://www.azekka.org/dossiers/cat.php?idcat=49

You can sit on your ass on the British comfort and ask the teacher, who walk tens of miles to reach his school, to clean up classrooms.
A complete disconnect from Makhzenland's reality.

This is BS, in other countries waaay more rich and developped than Morocco, teachers and students clean the classroom on a daily basis, example japan... but of course in morocco the teacher is "not in the mood" to do so ...

Tta 2ach ghadi 2i ne99i llay hdik ?!

Khassou 2idreb lhad l9issem lmertoub , ou 2i3awd lih ddala , wi chri tbali .... Bezaaaaaaaaaaaaa f ! :lol:

Let's say that it's his job ( Even though i stand by what i said ) to clean the classroom ... Where are the tables and seats ? Why are the students sitting on the floor ? Is that the Teacher's job too ? Carpenter ? :lol:

Tkherbi9 !

here is photos of a school in brazil, a country that Mister79 is so impressed with....and this is from a school in a very big city, not the countryside! yeah, school administration must be waiting for the government to do something!!

http://i1.r7.com/data/files/2C95/948E/3699/57BD/0136/9C37/0871/1D57/escola-bel%C3%A9m-2-hg-20120410.jpg
http://i1.r7.com/data/files/2C95/948E/3699/57BD/0136/9C3C/BF19/4E27/escola-bel%C3%A9m-4-hg-20120410.jpg

...At least they got tables !

Our students are sitting on the floor !

Do you see what i mean ? In Brazil they at least have the basics ( Structure , tables , seats ... ) ,so the teacher can still work and try to make thinks better , while in Morocco , kids are sitting on the FLOOR , so there isn't much the teacher can do for them !

^^ bayn liya wa9ila chhal hadi machfti les classes dyal lmghrib a ssi amine, rah le Maroc tetwar a 3mi:lol: drari mab9awch tayglsso f dss, o tbali mojodin wa kha kayn liktidad mais les choses ne sont pas catastrophiques à ce point là

^^ Sniperman, essayes de sortir un peu de la zone de la ville d'Agadir et tu verras.
Dans les villes tu ne verras pas les éleves sur le sol. Par contre tu verras 3 éleves partager la meme table.
Dans les zones rurales c'est une autre affaire. C'est la catastrophe.

how would the debate take us if i was like you and all we keep doing is look at the government

all you do is complain but you provide no solutions and no way forward, and anyone that DARES suggest something different from "makhzen this, M6 that" line, you label them as pro-makhzen???

in england, i have seen teachers cleaning classrooms...teachers will get the kids to help and not JUST teach...and of course the teachers will complain.....i am sorry i should not use england as an example because they dont have Makhzen or M6 :ohno:

as i said before, keep waiting for the revolution for you you to start working

-doukkali installé dans son petit confort londonien et totalement déconnecté de la catastrophe de l'éducation au Maroc

-figure toi que notre mauvais classement dans l'idh est principalement dû, a la médiocité du secteur de la santé et l'education (nous sommes bonnet d'âne au Maghreb et dans le monde Arabe).

-d'ailleurs makhzenland et l'afrique du sud se pleignent tout le temp de ce classement qui les giffle tout les ans et les mets face a leur réalités.

-ensuite tu reproche a bilad de faire que se plaindre a longueur de journées et tu lui demande qu'il fasse des choses? mais a la base lui est un citoyen de ce pays comme toi et moi,c'est pas son rôle de faire ce qu'il doit être fait,notre rôle c'est on "vote et on élit un gouvernement et c'est a lui de se démerdé" et quand sa va pas on manifeste et on se fait entendre comme "a londres" mais ici a makhzenland c'est tais toi et suit le za3im

PS: a ta place j'aurais honte,c'est a cause de groupies comme toi que le Maroc ne décollera jamais, BILAD TA TOUT MON SOUTIENT MAN.

^^ bayn liya wa9ila chhal hadi machfti les classes dyal lmghrib a ssi amine, rah le Maroc tetwar a 3mi:lol: drari mab9awch tayglsso f dss, o tbali mojodin wa kha kayn liktidad mais les choses ne sont pas catastrophiques à ce point là
^^
lors mon prochain voyage a tafraout dans ma maison en montagne, je prendrai en photo l'école ou étudie les gamins du village et je l'est afficheré sur ce forum, je te donne un petit aperçu, pas de fenêtre et des trous dans la toiture,la moitié des élèves ne viennent pas une partie de l'hiver car ils fait froid et en plus de sa elle est un peu loins du village.

PS: si les collectivités locale ne font rien, moi mon frère et un ami de hollande on se partagera les frais pour la remettre a neuf :)

the president of brazil is not one the richest presidents in the world but here in morocco the king is one of the richest in the world .

HDI of brazil:0.718[7] (high) (84th
HDI of morocco:0.582 (medium) (130th

la majal lil mo9arana

3endek sse7...lamajal lil mou9arana...ou 3lesh kat 9aren bin M6 ou presidente dial lbrazil? :)

HDI of brazil:0.718[7] (high) ou mazal 3ndhoum b7el had lmadaress? wakha 3endhoum lpetrol, ou dhab, ou shi 3joub!!

I don't understand why you feel targeted whenever someone points fingers to the Makhzen.

Even in Morocco we see teachers cleaning classrooms, planting trees, etc. But that is not the problem of our education system in Morocco. You can clean all the schools in Morocco it will not solve the real problem of our schools and our education system in general.

And of course you should be ashamed to dare comparing between UK and MakhzenLand. Watch Britsh TV and you'll see the educational role they play. Watch now our TV and you'll see it's all about one Za3toutt. So yes, don't ever dare comparing a modern country like UK to Makhzenland.

the thing i like about you is that you are predictable :)

now you are changing your tune about teaching doing a bit more than teaching...i am glad that for you there is hope.

-doukkali installé dans son petit confort londonien et totalement déconnecté de la catastrophe de l'éducation au Maroc

-figure toi que notre mauvais classement dans l'idh est principalement dû, a la médiocité du secteur de la santé et l'education (nous sommes bonnet d'âne au Maghreb et dans le monde Arabe).

-d'ailleurs makhzenland et l'afrique du sud se pleignent tout le temp de ce classement qui les giffle tout les ans et les mets face a leur réalités.

-ensuite tu reproche a bilad de faire que se plaindre a longueur de journées et tu lui demande qu'il fasse des choses? mais a la base lui est un citoyen de ce pays comme toi et moi,c'est pas son rôle de faire ce qu'il doit être fait,notre rôle c'est on "vote et on élit un gouvernement et c'est a lui de se démerdé" et quand sa va pas on manifeste et on se fait entendre comme "a londres" mais ici a makhzenland c'est tais toi et suit le za3im

PS: a ta place j'aurais honte,c'est a cause de groupies comme toi que le Maroc ne décollera jamais, BILAD TA TOUT MON SOUTIENT MAN.

yeah, now your argument is i am disconnected from morocco, or i live in the comfort of london..so i dont have the right to debate issues about morocco?!? :ohno:

i did the same thing with the photos from brazil as biladatlas, but that does not mean that the whole of brazil is like that....so the same thing for morocco, just because of one photo, does not mean all moroccan schools are like that!!

when you have nothing to say, you start tkhellet cha3ban m3a ramdan

^^
lors mon prochain voyage a tafraout dans ma maison en montagne, je prendrai en photo l'école ou étudie les gamins du village et je l'est afficheré sur ce forum, je te donne un petit aperçu, pas de fenêtre et des trous dans la toiture,la moitié des élèves ne viennent pas une partie de l'hiver car ils fait froid et en plus de sa elle est un peu loins du village.

PS: si les collectivités locale ne font rien, moi mon frère et un ami de hollande on se partagera les frais pour la remettre a neuf :)

you don't have to pay for anything,it is not your responsibility just wait till the government sends someone to fix the problems with the school...that is what many people here prefer to happen! :ohno:

but if you help, then that is great and i am happy for you and i will forgive your last comment :)

the president of brazil is not one the richest presidents in the world but here in morocco the king is one of the richest in the world .

HDI of brazil:0.718[7] (high) (84th
HDI of morocco:0.582 (medium) (130th

la majal lil mo9arana

+1

^^
lors mon prochain voyage a tafraout dans ma maison en montagne, je prendrai en photo l'école ou étudie les gamins du village et je l'est afficheré sur ce forum, je te donne un petit aperçu, pas de fenêtre et des trous dans la toiture,la moitié des élèves ne viennent pas une partie de l'hiver car ils fait froid et en plus de sa elle est un peu loins du village.

PS: si les collectivités locale ne font rien, moi mon frère et un ami de hollande on se partagera les frais pour la remettre a neuf :)

Mettons le gouvernement à coté... Je vous félicite pour ce que vous allez faire :okay:

lets say we have the follwing scenario and i want to know what YOU would do:
there is a school in a small village in doukkala, the school is dirty, windows broken, not enough tables,...

1) do you stop teaching, go to the 3amala or moufetichiya, wait for someone to come in fix that, while the kids are not being educated

2) you come to a forum like this and say the makhzen is this and makhzen is that, while the elite children are being educated in fancy schools, and this makhzen still carries on just like it has for 100's of years

3) do nothing

4) as a civil person, with pride in your profession, you TRY and organise the parents, pull all possible strings and have as many problems as possible fixed...despite all known problems.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

What makes you think that teachers stop teaching in these conditions? It is the quality of teaching that is what we are talking about.

What makes you think that teachers stop teaching in these conditions? It is the quality of teaching that is what we are talking about.

you are moving the goal post!! since when we were talking about the quality of the teaching?!?
and for that matter, how can you qualify the QUALITY of the teaching? what are parameters to say whether a teacher is performing well or not? it could depend on the school, teacher, on the curriculum or the kids! also the parents are important.

we are/were debating whether the teacher could have done more to the school, especially in the countryside where parent are not educated, government does not care and community always respect the teacher!! this is the point of the debate.

Mettons le gouvernement à coté... Je vous félicite pour ce que vous allez faire :okay:

+1

i hope there are more people like cs7even, even when he is a pain in the neck at times :)

Teacher are under responsability of ministery of educaction.

But are you sure schools are under responsability of minister and not cities ?


Programme d'urgence


Le bilan du programme d'urgence devant la commission des affaires de l’enseignement, de la culture et de la communication du parlement


M. Mohammed Elouafa a présenté le Mardi 24 Juillet 2012 devant la commission des affaires de l’enseignement, de la culture et de la communication du parlement un exposé relatif au programme d’urgence 2009-2012...les détails
http://www.men.gov.ma/sites/fr/Lists/Pages/DetailFR.aspx?List=81656579-6b89-4f76-a431-04eeb362c684&ID=525

Maroc : Le retour en grâce de Driss Jettou avec la Cour des comptes


10.08.2012


La Cour des comptes a un nouveau président : Driss Jettou. Une nomination qui devrait réjouir le PJD et les premiers partenaires politiques et économiques du royaume à savoir l’Europe et les Etats-Unis.


Driss Jettou revient sur le devant de la scène politique. Le roi Mohammed VI a nommé, hier, l’ancien premier ministre (9 octobre 2000 au 15 octobre 2007) à la tête de la Cour des comptes à la place d’Ahmed Midaoui. Un retour en grâce après presque cinq ans d’attente d’une nouvelle mission. Et pourtant l’homme est connu pour sa compétence.

Juste après son départ de la primature, des informations donnaient Jettou au cabinet royal en tant que conseiller, sauf que le courant ne passait pas entre lui et quelques membres de l’entourage du monarque. L’ancien premier ministre avait subi pendant deux ans les assauts de ces derniers qui voulaient le déloger de la primature. Des médias, notamment 2M, étaient même impliqué dans cette campagne contre Jettou. En 2011, alors que le Conseil économique et social était sur le point d’être mis sur les rails, le nom de Jettou était cité pour occuper sa présidence. Finalement, C’est Chakib Benmoussa qui est propulsé aux commandes du CES.

Très proche des islamistes du PJD

La désignation de Driss Jettou à la présidence de la Cour des comptes devrait réjouir la direction du PJD. La relation des islamistes avec l'ancien premier ministre est même très bonne. Pour mémoire, C’est le même Jettou qui avait fait un cadeau aux « frères » de Benkirane en incluant leur bras syndical, l’UNMT (Union nationale marocaine de travail), dans les rounds du dialogue social alors qu’elle ne répondait même pas au critère requis pour faire partie des grandes centrales syndicales : avoir 6% de représentativité nationale lors des élections professionnelles. En signe de reconnaissance de cette "générosité", les islamistes avaient beaucoup réduit le nombre de grèves qu’ils lançaient.

Cette nomination est à même de normaliser les relations entre le gouvernement et la Cour des comptes. Le ministre de la Justice, Mustapha Ramid, s’était plaint en avril du manque de coopération de cette institution avec son département. Devant une commission au parlement, il reconnaissait que l’ancien président du CC, Ahmed Midaoui, ne répondait même pas à ses appels téléphoniques.

Jettou estimé à l'étranger

Ce retour en grâce de Driss Jettou sera, sans aucun doute, bien accueilli dans les capitales étrangères, notamment en Europe et aux Etats-Unis où l’homme bénéficie d’un capital d’estime important. Justement, c’est cette position privilégiée qui lui avait permis d’assumer son mandat jusqu’à son terme.

Jettou reste, jusqu’à présent, le seul premier ministre marocain qui a fait un déplacement, janvier 2004, à Washington en sa qualité d’invité du gouvernement américain. Une visite au cours de laquelle, Jettou avait eu des entretiens avec les hommes clés de l’administration Bush : le vice-président, Dick Chenney, la conseillère du président pour la sécurité nationale, Condoleeza Rice, et le secrétaire d’Etat Colin Powell
http://www.yabiladi.com/articles/details/12330/maroc-retour-grace-driss-jettou.html

i did the same thing with the photos from brazil as biladatlas, but that does not mean that the whole of brazil is like that....so the same thing for morocco, just because of one photo, does not mean all moroccan schools are like that!!


Again, you don't get it.
You were asking about parameters used to measure the quality of education. Well guess what, United Nations has these parameters well standardized and when they compared Brazil to Morocco they ranked:
- Brazil 84th (High)
- Morocco 130th (medium).
This means the likelihood of seeing sad pictures like that are VERY high in Morocco.

Avoid the Khoza3billattes when comparing between countries. Use technical data.
And for your information the debate here is about the quality of education.

Here is again the "article" that started the so-called debate. It was about the quality of education in Morocco. But doukali wants to play the "distraction" and start attacking teacher instead of pointing fingers to the true responsible of this catastrophe.

تقرير 'اليونسكو' يرسم صورة قاتمة للتعليم بالمغرب

http://www.lakome.com/images/resized/images/stories/2012/0730/ta3limmaroc_444_333.jpg http://83.img.v4.skyrock.net/83a/lamya-maroc92/pics/2092663251_small_2.jpg

المغرب يحتل مراتب متأخرة في نسب التمدرس خلف دول عربية وإفريقية
رسم تقرير صدر عن معهد "اليونسكو" للإحصاءات، صورة سوداوية عن الوضع التعليمي بالمغرب، وأشار التقرير الذي قدم مقارنة إحصائية للتعليم في العالم لسنة 2011، إلى أن المغرب يحتل مراتب متأخرة في أغلب المؤشرات مقارنة مع دول عربية وإفريقية عديدة.
http://www.lakome.com/%D9%85%D8%AC%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%B9/84-%D9%85%D8%AC%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%B9/16573-%D8%AA%D9%82%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%88%D9%86%D8%B3%D9%83%D9%88-%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%B3%D9%85-%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%A9-%D9%84%D9%84%D8%AA%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%85-%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%BA%D8%B1%D8%A8.html

Je ne comprends pas le classement de l'UNESCO alors qu'on a des écoles de qualité royale.

-figure toi que notre mauvais classement dans l'idh est principalement dû, a la médiocité du secteur de la santé et l'education (nous sommes bonnet d'âne au Maghreb et dans le monde Arabe).

-d'ailleurs makhzenland et l'afrique du sud se pleignent tout le temp de ce classement qui les giffle tout les ans et les mets face a leur réalités.

PS: a ta place j'aurais honte,c'est a cause de groupies comme toi que le Maroc ne décollera jamais, BILAD TA TOUT MON SOUTIENT MAN.

cs7even, Matkhammamch. Rah golnaha lihom: Mamfakinsh :okay:

الغضبة الملكية ضد بنكيران تأخذ بعدا تصعيديا. بنكيران عن تعيين جطو : ما عندي خبار ولما علمت بتعيينه اتصلت به

http://www.goud.ma/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%BA%D8%B6%D8%A8%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D9%84%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%B6%D8%AF-%D8%A8%D9%86%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%AA%D8%A3%D8%AE%D8%B0-%D8%A8%D8%B9%D8%AF%D8%A7-%D8%AA%D8%B5%D8%B9%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%A7-%D8%A8%D9%86%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%B9%D9%86-%D8%AA%D8%B9%D9%8A%D9%8A%D9%86-%D8%AC%D8%B7%D9%88_a15593.html

^^
lors mon prochain voyage a tafraout dans ma maison en montagne, je prendrai en photo l'école ou étudie les gamins du village et je l'est afficheré sur ce forum, je te donne un petit aperçu, pas de fenêtre et des trous dans la toiture,la moitié des élèves ne viennent pas une partie de l'hiver car ils fait froid et en plus de sa elle est un peu loins du village.

PS: si les collectivités locale ne font rien, moi mon frère et un ami de hollande on se partagera les frais pour la remettre a neuf :)

:applause:je vous félicite pour ce geste là, espérant que le governement face vite pour resoudre les problèmes des zones rurales non seulement l'education mais tous les secteurs.

^^
merçi pour vos soutiens,comme j'ai dit la haut la jeunesse et son niveau d'éducation c'est l'avenir d'un pays.
PS:il y'a énormement de choses a amélioré dans le monde rurale,je pense notamment aux montagne aux alentours de Marrakech, bon la ou j'habite dans les villages alentours la route c'était une piste,et les mre de chaque village se sont tous cotisé pour goudronné la piste,ma mère a craché 1000 eu,moi j'ai donné 500 eu, la mosquée aussi on la retapé,et tout les 3 piges on rachète chacun son tour des tapis pour cette mosquée, bref on se substitue a l'état et j'ai confiance en ce pays et ses habitants,le Maroc a ce petit quelque chose que les autre pays arabes n'ont pas c'est "LA RICHESSE DES HOMMES"

We have a flawed tax-system and too many corrupt officials on a lower level. Personally I do not agree with those which point the finger towards the king. The people surrounding him though, are rotten. They are rotten when they ruled under Hassan II, and its basically the same people. If he would start a sweep just out of a blue, chances are pretty big he will not survive it.

Oh and cs7even, the way you talk about MRE's is not very respectful.

We have a flawed tax-system and too many corrupt officials on a lower level. Personally I do not agree with those which point the finger towards the king. The people surrounding him though, are rotten. They are rotten when they ruled under Hassan II, and its basically the same people. If he would start a sweep just out of a blue, chances are pretty big he will not survive it.

Oh and cs7even, the way you talk about MRE's is not very respectful.

agree...the elite families have been running the show for a long time. they use their relationship with france to strengthen their hold on power, and people look to france for everything..... my problem is how to change this situation without a bloody revolution and also how to make changes,even small ones to the people , while waiting for the day that morocco is really independent again

you are moving the goal post!! since when we were talking about the quality of the teaching?!?
and for that matter, how can you qualify the QUALITY of the teaching? what are parameters to say whether a teacher is performing well or not? it could depend on the school, teacher, on the curriculum or the kids! also the parents are important.

we are/were debating whether the teacher could have done more to the school, especially in the countryside where parent are not educated, government does not care and community always respect the teacher!! this is the point of the debate.

The point is that you are talking from your comfortable place wherever you are and theorizing about things you know nothing about. Teachers, most of them at least they are doing as good as they can in deplorable situations. Teachers sleeping in a classrooms, hundreds of kms away from civilization, teaching students with three, four and even five levels in one classroom, having to walk hours for a loaf of bread and increasingly being ridiculed by people like you and the media and ignorant ministers like the current one who can't speak a correct and complete sentence and he is the minister of freaking education. The problem is in the top! If the top is fixed it will force change on the lower levels. We don't live in a democracy, that is the only way it can be done here: force change from the top.

The point is that you are talking from your comfortable place wherever you are and theorizing about things you know nothing about. Teachers, most of them at least they are doing as good as they can in deplorable situations. Teachers sleeping in a classrooms, hundreds of kms away from civilization, teaching students with three, four and even five levels in one classroom, having to walk hours for a loaf of bread and increasingly being ridiculed by people like you and the media and ignorant ministers like the current one who can't speak a correct and complete sentence and he is the minister of freaking education. The problem is in the top! If the top is fixed it will force change on the lower levels. We don't live in a democracy, that is the only way it can be done here: force change from the top.

you know what, this is becoming boring, try and come up with something else :)

you know what, this is becoming boring, try and come up with something else :)

It is boring to you because you have hard time to accept the points of view that are not in line with yours.
Very sad.

We have a flawed tax-system and too many corrupt officials on a lower level. Personally I do not agree with those which point the finger towards the king. The people surrounding him though, are rotten. They are rotten when they ruled under Hassan II, and its basically the same people. If he would start a sweep just out of a blue, chances are pretty big he will not survive it.

Oh and cs7even, the way you talk about MRE's is not very respectful.

pourquoi sa serait pas respectueux,qu'est ce que je dit de mal?

It is boring to you because you have hard time to accept the points of view that are not in line with yours.
Very sad.

what points of view?

you mean:
useless government
corrupt politicians
elitism
french dominance
monarchy (no comment)!!
....
show me when did i disagree with these!! just look at how i voted which was a long time ago

the difference between you and me is this:
i dont see just the negative aspects of Morocco
you blame the government for 100% of the problem but i don't.
i keep saying that things are not as bad as you paint them
i also believe that some of Morocco's problems are not the fault of the government.
but the main difference is that i am more practical and you are sensationalist...with all respect :)

enquête exclusive M6 now , y'a un marocain qui a 7reg et il se fait 7agar par son boss,sa me fait mal au coeur...

wow wow 220 page :D . ha bonjour diyal a khoya bilad Atlass. ana ba3da tu as tous mon respect pour ton commitement.

what points of view?

the difference between you and me is this:
i dont see just the negative aspects of Morocco
you blame the government for 100% of the problem but i don't.
i keep saying that things are not as bad as you paint them
i also believe that some of Morocco's problems are not the fault of the government.
but the main difference is that i am more practical and you are sensationalist...with all respect :)

The difference between you and me is more than that.
You are not practical and you cannot be.
At least, you should:
- try to understand what the Makhzen needs to learn from the British government.
- try to understand the role of governments and the roles of associations. Who should be building roads and hospitals? The role of associations in a society.

Now let's go to who's painting things as good or bad. We started this conversation when I posted the ranking of UNESCO that shows Morocco pulling behind in Education. I didn't paint it as BAD or GOOD. Let the data speak.
UNESCO study shows that our Education system is catastrophic.
I said it needs an urgent "Marshall" plan. In the other hand your only obsession is about the teacher who didn't clean the classroom. You see how off-target you are?

The problem of Education I blamed it on the Makhzen. I don't blame it on the government since there is NO government in MakhzenLand. Go read the new-old constitution and you'll understand this. Last Example is when the King of the Makhzen named Driss Jettou few days ago. Benkirane learnt this with us on TV.

In Morocco we have many good things. I don't say all is bad.
Look to the sacrifices of Moroccan people in many areas. Look to the teacher who has to travel tens of kilometers to reach his school. Look to the soldiers and their sacrifices. Poorly paid and they are the first ones on the front-line. These are some of the good things in Morocco. Get the Makhzen out of their way and you'll see an even better Morocco.

As far as the Makhzen is running Morocco, things will never improve. The teachers can clean all the classrooms in Morocco it won't improve our HDI ranking.

wow wow 220 page :D . ha bonjour diyal a khoya bilad Atlass. ana ba3da tu as tous mon respect pour ton commitement.

Tu dois ajouter les centainrs de pages des autres threads qui sont fermés maintenant :)
Warah golnaha likom: Mamfakinsh

The difference between you and me is more than that.
You are not practical and you cannot be.
At least, you should:
- try to understand what the Makhzen needs to learn from the British government.
- try to understand the role of governments and the roles of associations. Who should be building roads and hospitals? The role of associations in a society.

Now let's go to who's painting things as good or bad. We started this conversation when I posted the ranking of UNESCO that shows Morocco pulling behind in Education. I didn't paint it as BAD or GOOD. Let the data speak.
UNESCO study shows that our Education system is catastrophic.
I said it needs an urgent "Marshall" plan. In the other hand your only obsession is about the teacher who didn't clean the classroom. You see how off-target you are?

The problem of Education I blamed it on the Makhzen. I don't blame it on the government since there is NO government in MakhzenLand. Go read the new-old constitution and you'll understand this. Last Example is when the King of the Makhzen named Driss Jettou few days ago. Benkirane learnt this with us on TV.

In Morocco we have many good things. I don't say all is bad.
Look to the sacrifices of Moroccan people in many areas. Look to the teacher who has to travel tens of kilometers to reach his school. Look to the soldiers and their sacrifices. Poorly paid and they are the first ones on the front-line. These are some of the good things in Morocco. Get the Makhzen out of their way and you'll see an even better Morocco.

As far as the Makhzen is running Morocco, things will never improve. The teachers can clean all the classrooms in Morocco it won't improve our HDI ranking.

i am glad you think that we have many good things in morocco...and i will leave to that :-)

The point is that you are talking from your comfortable place wherever you are and theorizing about things you know nothing about. Teachers, most of them at least they are doing as good as they can in deplorable situations. Teachers sleeping in a classrooms, hundreds of kms away from civilization, teaching students with three, four and even five levels in one classroom, having to walk hours for a loaf of bread and increasingly being ridiculed by people like you and the media and ignorant ministers like the current one who can't speak a correct and complete sentence and he is the minister of freaking education. The problem is in the top! If the top is fixed it will force change on the lower levels. We don't live in a democracy, that is the only way it can be done here: force change from the top.

+1000

Doukali, Jordan has the best education system of the Arab world, why? Because their king focussed on good education. King Abdullah made education one of the most important issue of his country.
The Moroccan regime focussed 12 years on tourism..That is a big mistake, non-productive people don't produce anything.

Vietnam made huge progress in only 10 years, because their government invested in good education and started economic reforms. And now the start to build infrastructure. In Morocco they first build infrastructure, but forget to educate their people. Investors want good educated people .
That is why the FDI in Morocco is very dissapointing..
Lee Kuan Yew the old president of Singapore who made a poor country into one of the richest countries in the world. He said he did this by starting economic reforms and invest in a good educated population..

The Moroccan elite knows education is very important, because they have all studied on the best universities abroad and send their childeren to the best universities in France, Swiss, US, Uk etc. But they don't want the Moroccan people to get good education, because they are afraid that young good educated people and intelligencia can turn against them..

Doukali, Jordan has the best education system of the Arab world, why? Because their king focussed on good education. King Abdullah made education one of the most important issue of his country.
The Moroccan regime focussed 12 years on tourism..That is a big mistake, non-productive people don't produce anything.

Vietnam made huge progress in only 10 years, because their government invested in good education and started economic reforms. And now the start to build infrastructure. In Morocco they first build infrastructure, but forget to educate their people. Investors want good educated people .
That is why the FDI in Morocco is very dissapointing..
Lee Kuan Yew the old president of Singapore who made a poor country into one of the richest countries in the world. He said he did this by starting economic reforms and invest in a good educated population..

The Moroccan elite knows education is very important, because they have all studied on the best universities abroad and send their childeren to the best universities in France, Swiss, US, Uk etc. But they don't want the Moroccan people to get good education, because they are afraid that young good educated people and intelligencia can turn against them..
dumbass.
The World Travel & Tourism Council expected the tourism sector to account for 19.2 percent of Jordan's GDP in 2008



http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9rale_des_travaux_du_Maroc http://www.novec.ma/fr/index.aspx

Arretez de blablater dans le vide, et regarder ce que vous a votre niveau pouvait apporter a votre pays, les problemes au Maroc ne sont pas uniquement d'ordre politique ou de regime, ca serait beaucoup trop simple et un raccourci simpliste, c'est toute la societe Marocaine du bas jusqu'au haut de l'echelle qui est a revoir , cela demande un investissement de chacun a son niveau et cela prendra du temps... il faut arreter les pleurnicheries et agir avec ses moyens...

Arretez de blablater dans le vide, et regarder ce que vous a votre niveau pouvait apporter a votre pays, les problemes au Maroc ne sont pas uniquement d'ordre politique ou de regime, ca serait beaucoup trop simple et un raccourci simpliste, c'est toute la societe Marocaine du bas jusqu'au haut de l'echelle qui est a revoir , cela demande un investissement de chacun a son niveau et cela prendra du temps... il faut arreter les pleurnicheries et agir avec ses moyens...

+1000000

Doukali, Jordan has the best education system of the Arab world, why? Because their king focussed on good education. King Abdullah made education one of the most important issue of his country.
The Moroccan regime focussed 12 years on tourism..That is a big mistake, non-productive people don't produce anything.

Vietnam made huge progress in only 10 years, because their government invested in good education and started economic reforms. And now the start to build infrastructure. In Morocco they first build infrastructure, but forget to educate their people. Investors want good educated people .
That is why the FDI in Morocco is very dissapointing..
Lee Kuan Yew the old president of Singapore who made a poor country into one of the richest countries in the world. He said he did this by starting economic reforms and invest in a good educated population..



did you ever ask yourself why is it that the level of education is always higher in arab countries of the middle-east despite the fact that they have had worse autoritarian regimes than morocco? palestine, iraq, lybia, tunisia,syria,egypt,jordan...could it be that their society values eduction more than we do? yes, it is true that moroccan government is not investing enough and should invest more, but also moroccan society should also look at itself in the mirror and see if they could do more!


The Moroccan elite knows education is very important, because they have all studied on the best universities abroad and send their childeren to the best universities in France, Swiss, US, Uk etc. But they don't want the Moroccan people to get good education, because they are afraid that young good educated people and intelligencia can turn against them..
+1

did you ever ask yourself why is it that the level of education is always higher in arab countries of the middle-east despite the fact that they have had worse autoritarian regimes than morocco? palestine, iraq, lybia, tunisia,syria,egypt,jordan...could it be that their society values eduction more than we do? yes, it is true that moroccan government is not investing enough and should invest more, but also moroccan society should also look at itself in the mirror and see if they could do more!


+1

It has nothing to do that their society values education more than Morocco. Most of the Gulf Countries give free education to their people, many get help from the state to study abroad in the US etc. Also many of this countries send people abroad to study, search for partnerships with top universities etc
They also hire teachers from abroad to work in universities. Their leaders and dictators, but they want their people to get good education.

The Moroccan regime does nothing to stimulate good education. They don't even send their best students abroad to study and bring them back like for example China, India, Middle-East etc are doing.
The French education system in universities is totally outdated and people who went though such a university stay mostly unemployed. Foreign companies and even French companies want now people who speak English. English is the language of business. People who went though a English orientated university find for 99% a job. So Doukali the question is why doesn't Morocco build English orientated state universities?
Morocco has one top English education orientated university in Ifrane and that is a private university. Those students all find quick a job. So why doesn't the Moroccan regime wakes up and build state university based on a English education system..







MOROCCO: Many elite Arabs opt for American-style education, moving away from the French mold
June 27, 2010 | 8:06 am



The 259 students who graduated this year from the Al Akhawayn University in Ifrane, Morocco’s only English-language college, are practically guaranteed a job -- unlike those Moroccans who went through the country’s French-inspired education system.

Commencement weekend at AUI, as it is commonly known, is not a very Moroccan affair. The atmosphere at the campus, set amid the pine and cedar forests of the Mid-Atlas mountain range, is part Swiss ski village, part Ivy League college. The university is in Ifrane, a mountain resort originally built for the French colonial elite wishing to escape the summer heat of Casablanca and Rabat. On a recent weekend in June, it was beset by a different kind of elite: AUI’s class of 2010 and their proud parents.

It was quickly obvious from the speeches that AUI did things the American way.

“AUI gives you not just a degree but a whole new personality,” said alumni President Khalid Baddou.

“AUI is more than a university; it is a community with an amazing culture. Here, you are given the weapons to face the real world with,” said science and engineering graduate Ahmad Arjdane.

Morocco-aui3

The underlying message was loud and clear: This is what you miss out on if you study at traditional French-inspired universities in Morocco.

“I lost all hope with the French system while I was in high school,” said Fahd El Hassan, a 2009 graduate. “It is all about memorizing, not about learning.”


El Hassan was invited to speak at this year’s commencement because he had won third place in the 2008 Imagine Cup, a student competition organized by Microsoft and Unesco to further sustainable businesses through technology. This year’s AUI graduates included winners of the Google Anita Borg Memorial Scholarschip and the Google Computer Excellence Award in computer science.

"Morocco has long been handicapped because it has been so oriented toward Europe and France," said the dean of the science and engineering school, Ahmed Legrouri. "Let’s face it: Where can you go with just French these days? France, Switzerland and Belgium? Even in France, technical publications are in English these days.”

Morocco-auiThe former Moroccan king, Hassan II -- although himself a strong Francophile -- was among the first to stress the need for Moroccans to learn English to help ensure international success. Fate lent a helping hand. In 1995, Morocco’s beaches were threatened by an oil spill from a foreign tanker off the coast. The oil eventually drifted away, but by then king Fahd of Saudi Arabia had written a $50-million check to come to Morocco’s aid. The money was used to found AUI.

The university likes to boast that Moroccan employers are falling over themselves to hire AUI graduates. A recent survey by the alumni association said 98% of AUI graduates had found a job, started a business or were working a master's degree within six months of graduation.

This is in stark contrast to other Moroccan universities, some of whose graduates have been demonstrating every day for months in front of the parliament building in the capital, Rabat, demanding to be given jobs. Passersby sometimes make snide remarks about these demonstrators, saying graduates think a university degree automatically entitles a person to a government job.

"Like in many developing countries, it was long policy in Morocco that college graduates were given government jobs straight out of school," said AUI alumni President Baddou. "It was part of an internal security strategy at the time."

Moroccans also have learned the value of learning English. Moroccans initially missed the boat of the economic boom in the Persian Gulf countries because French was of no use in Dubai or Kuwait. Now, English is becoming a requirement in Morocco. Even some French companies in Morocco require that employees know English.

“The demand for an institution like ours is insatiable for the moment," said Simon O'Rourke, AUI’s American communications director. “We are the only one to offer the overall college experience."

-- Gert van Langendonck in Rabat, Morocco

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/06/morocco-draft-elite-arabs-prefer-american-education-and-no-longer-dream-of-france-.html

dumbass.




http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9rale_des_travaux_du_Maroc http://www.novec.ma/fr/index.aspx

It is difficult for you to understand what I have said..
I will said it again, when King Abdullah came to power he said that education was the main issue for development etc. He and his government did a lot to improve the education of Jordan and with big succes.

When M6 came to power he talked mostly about focussing on tourism, about a tourism vision etc. How many English orientated universities have been build in the past 12 years?? None..
Nothing about a education vision for the future to put Morocco in the top of the world of good education..
I am not talking about how much of their GDP comes from tourism. That is not important..








Jordan is among the region’s highest spenders on education, investing more than 20.4% of our GDP to enable a labor force tailored to meet the demands of the modern market.

Jordan’s literacy rate of 91% is among the highest in the Middle East.

Over 200 thousand students attending our 25 universities and another 20,000 Jordanians are earning degrees abroad.

We have 60 community colleges and 35 vocational centers graduating over 10,000 skilled technicians annually.


Jordan has long enjoyed a skilled labor pool for services and industry. The average wages in these sectors are on par with those of China and India


Beginning in elementary school, Jordanian children learn English and Computer skills ;( in preparation for IT training at the secondary level.)

We boast 5 “business incubators”, where students receive guidance and assistance from the private sector.

Jordan produces over 6,000 IT graduates every year.

An efficiently, productive workforce. We spend 4.2% of our GDP to guarantee the well being of our citizens- more than any other country in the region. Life expectancy and public health levels in Jordan are comparable to the West with 70% of the population on medical insurance.

Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) Report in 2003, ranked Jordanian students scores to be 22 points above international average in science and mathematics.

http://www.jordaninvestment.com/default.aspx?tabid=76&language=en-US

^^
lors mon prochain voyage a tafraout dans ma maison en montagne, je prendrai en photo l'école ou étudie les gamins du village et je l'est afficheré sur ce forum, je te donne un petit aperçu, pas de fenêtre et des trous dans la toiture,la moitié des élèves ne viennent pas une partie de l'hiver car ils fait froid et en plus de sa elle est un peu loins du village.

PS: si les collectivités locale ne font rien, moi mon frère et un ami de hollande on se partagera les frais pour la remettre a neuf :)

Bravo

It has nothing to do that their society values education more than Morocco. Most of the Gulf Countries give free education to their people, many get help from the state to study abroad in the US etc. Also many of this countries send people abroad to study, search for partnerships with top universities etc
They also hire teachers from abroad to work in universities. Their leaders and dictators, but they want their people to get good education.

The Moroccan regime does nothing to stimulate good education. They don't even send their best students abroad to study and bring them back like for example China, India, Middle-East etc are doing.
The French education system in universities is totally outdated and people who went though such a university stay mostly unemployed. Foreign companies and even French companies want now people who speak English. English is the language of business. People who went though a English orientated university find for 99% a job. So Doukali the question is why doesn't Morocco build English orientated state universities?
Morocco has one top English education orientated university in Ifrane and that is a private university. Those students all find quick a job. So why doesn't the Moroccan regime wakes up and build state university based on a English education system..

you know i am not a big fan of france or french-biased eduction in Morocco...but the problem is that the elite in Morocco have created these English-based school to give them even more power. just check who is studying there and you will see that most of students are part of this elite.

a starting point is to have Arabic and Amazigh as the eduction languages in Morocco. what i want to see is the Moroccan education system cleaned up off french, and use french just as a foreign language, and have everything in Arabic and later Amazigh, and increase the use of English....if we teach all subjects in English then we will still have the same problem.

just look at Turkey, Korea, Brazil,...where their national language is their native language and NOT a colonial language.

Li bgha yeqra rah yeqra. Bgha ikoun foug jbel oula ta7t lard.

Li bgha yeqra rah yeqra. Bgha ikoun foug jbel oula ta7t lard.

+1000

Li bgha yeqra rah yeqra. Bgha ikoun foug jbel oula ta7t lard.

Hadi hia lhadra li kherjat 3lina depuis 50 ans wa lil asaf... Rah lmadrassa 3ndha les standards dialha ou machi kol berraka fwest chi doar twelli 9ism! :ohno:

Hadi hia lhadra li kherjat 3lina depuis 50 ans wa lil asaf... Rah lmadrassa 3ndha les standards dialha ou machi kol berraka fwest chi doar twelli 9ism! :ohno:
+1 c'est pas une baraka et une tawila pour 5 qui va me donner envie d’étudier.
Le pauvre petit campagnard n'as pas a supporter cette situation autant ir3a laghnam que rester dans des brarak
l'Etat doit prendre ses responsabilités et construire des écoles avec tout ce qui va avec terrain de sport, sanitaires, cantines et infirmeries

Li bgha yeqra rah yeqra. Bgha ikoun foug jbel oula ta7t lard.

makat3almou walou f dek europa li saknin feha?

wela dima lamghabra msakken homa li khasshoul ya9dew bach makan

+1 c'est pas une baraka et une tawila pour 5 qui va me donner envie d’étudier.
Le pauvre petit campagnard n'as pas a supporter cette situation autant ir3a laghnam que rester dans des brarak
l'Etat doit prendre ses responsabilités et construire des écoles avec tout ce qui va avec terrain de sport, sanitaires, cantines et infirmeries

Pas la peine d'aller en campagne, ma mère est prof et elle nous dit toujours que lli bgha ye9ra aye9ra. Elle connait des élèves qui n'ont rien, dont les parents sont toujours absents, qui luttent pour venir chaque jour assister aux cours et qui réussissent et d'autres lli 3endhoum koulchi et qui redoublent à chaque fois !

makat3almou walou f dek europa li saknin feha?

wela dima lamghabra msakken homa li khasshoul ya9dew bach makan

C'est quoi le truc avec l'Europe je n'arrive toujours pas à comprendre!
Chnou, à chaque fois qu'un MRE se pointe vous allez le critiquer parce qu'il ne vit pas au Maroc? C'est quoi ce délire?

Hadi hia lhadra li kherjat 3lina depuis 50 ans wa lil asaf... Rah lmadrassa 3ndha les standards dialha ou machi kol berraka fwest chi doar twelli 9ism! :ohno:
+1
+1 c'est pas une baraka et une tawila pour 5 qui va me donner envie d’étudier.
Le pauvre petit campagnard n'as pas a supporter cette situation autant ir3a laghnam que rester dans des brarak
l'Etat doit prendre ses responsabilités et construire des écoles avec tout ce qui va avec terrain de sport, sanitaires, cantines et infirmeries
+1
Ce sont les standards qui permettent de juger la qualité de l'école. Le slogan qui consiste a dire "Alli bgha ya9ra rah ya9ra" est du n'importe quoi

Safiot, tu as utilisé l'expression "envie d'étudier". C'est ce qui manque dans la methode de "alli bgha ya9ra rah ya9ra". Il nous faut une école qui donne aux gamins l'envie d'apprendre.
La méthode PASSIVE de "alli bgha ya9ra rah ya9ra" a échoué et nous a ramené au bas du classement. Il faut essayer autres méthodes pro-actives pour attirer les enfants vers l'école.

C'est quoi le truc avec l'Europe je n'arrive toujours pas à comprendre!
Chnou, à chaque fois qu'un MRE se pointe vous allez le critiquer parce qu'il ne vit pas au Maroc? C'est quoi ce délire?

Ce n'est pas ca. Quelqu'un qui vit dans un pays moderne avec des standards bien définis comme en Europe doit souhaiter le meme bien (dont il profite) a ses concitoyens. Il ne doit pas leur dire: 3addiw bach makan, alli bgha y9ara ya9ra. Ca fait un peu EGOISTE. C'est un discours dial AL7OGRA.
En plus de ca, les MRE representent presque 15% de la population marocaine. La majorité vivent dans des pays developpés. La Maroc profitera grandement si cette communauté appelle a utiliser au Maroc des méthodes de travail similaires a celles de l'Europe.
Un MRE qui dit aux Marocains "3addiw bach makayn" n'apporte rien au pays apart sa devise.

Pas la peine d'aller en campagne, ma mère est prof et elle nous dit toujours que lli bgha ye9ra aye9ra. Elle connait des élèves qui n'ont rien, dont les parents sont toujours absents, qui luttent pour venir chaque jour assister aux cours et qui réussissent et d'autres lli 3endhoum koulchi et qui redoublent à chaque fois !

La réponse a ton post est dans ta signature:

“The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.”

lli bgha ye9ra aye9ra = The question isn't who is going to let me = PASSIVE

Il faut essayer la méthode: who is going to stop me = PROACTIVE

Tu interprètes mal ma signature.
“The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.” => Rien n'est impossible, avec de la volonté on arrive toujours à ses fins.

^^ Fais attention. C'est ta signature mais pas ta "quote". Tu peux porter un maillot de FC Barcelone avec le numero 10, mais ca ne fera pas toi un Messi :)
La quote appartient a Ayn Rand. C'est pas toi qui jugera la bonne interpretation de la "quote".

Tu sais, je n'ai pas fait cette interprétation sans connaitre, bien que légèrement, la philosophie et les valeurs que Ayn Rand prônait (Travail, raison et égoïsme rationnel).
Pour elle, dans la vie on a un seul but => Réaliser ses rêves pour mourir heureux, ce qui explique mon interprétation que je trouve plus proche de ce qu'elle voulait dire.

D'autres citations qui "confirme" mon interprétation:

« Ma philosophie conçoit essentiellement l'Homme comme un être héroïque dont l'éthique de vie est la poursuite de son propre bonheur, la réalisation de soi son activité la plus noble, et la Raison son seul absolu. » Ayn Rand

« Throughout the centuries there were men who steps down new roads armed with nothing but their own vision. » Ayn Rand

Mais bon, je ne pourrais te confirmer à 100% que mon interpretation est juste.

.

Le gros problème de l’éducation au Maroc c cette mafia de syndicats, qui ce fout royalement des enfants du peuple. 60 % des instituteurs ne méritent pas leurs salaires, j'arrivent même pas a compter le nombre de jours de gréve par années pour des revendications non légitimes.


.

makat3almou walou f dek europa li saknin feha?

wela dima lamghabra msakken homa li khasshoul ya9dew bach makan

wachmen msaken. loukan rahoum ghir ba3da yeqdiou belikayen loukan rahoum labas.

It is boring to you because you have hard time to accept the points of view that are not in line with yours.
Very sad.


Ahum.. sounds familiar doesn't it? :ohno:

pourquoi sa serait pas respectueux,qu'est ce que je dit de mal?

You are perfectly able to think by yourself. You are suggesting that he doesn't know what he is talking about since he lives in a different country. In the Netherlands we call this false reasoning. I think its disrespectful because it's a nasty tactic to push the MRE's out of the social debate.

Ahum.. sounds familiar doesn't it? :ohno:

with the way you are going on about it, you will end up with just you, mister79 and a couple more guys and i cant wait to see what kind of debate you will have
:ohno:

with the way you are going on about it, you will end up with just you, mister79 and a couple more guys and i cant wait to see what kind of debate you will have
:ohno:

I am not sure what you are talking about. I am referring to BiladAtlas himself, in case you didn't understand.

I am not sure what you are talking about. I am referring to BiladAtlas himself, in case you didn't understand.

ah..sorry....i was also referring to biladAtlass as well :-)

je suis avec lhaja "lwalida" maintenant et je lui ai demande pourquoi elle ne veut pas apprendre a lire est a ecrire alors qu'on a une ecole et la mosque qui propose ce service dans notre quartier.

sa reponse est "diha frassek, et redonne moi le credit que je t'ai donne quand tu as acheter... ". :D .

chrito liya sda3.

alors ma question est pour bilad atlas and co comment vous pouvez obliger lhaja a aller a l'ecole ? .

je suis avec lhaja "lwalida" maintenant et je lui ai demande pourquoi elle ne veut pas apprendre a lire est a ecrire alors qu'on a une ecole et la mosque qui propose ce service dans notre quartier.

sa reponse est "diha frassek, et redonne moi le credit que je t'ai donne quand tu as acheter... ". :D .

chrito liya sda3.

alors ma question est pour bilad atlas and co comment vous pouvez obliger lhaja a aller a l'ecole ? .

ila bghiti rdate lwalida ou rda dial biladAtlas and co ghir b9a saket ou matghoul walou :) sinon rah "mamfakensh"

je suis avec lhaja "lwalida" maintenant et je lui ai demande pourquoi elle ne veut pas apprendre a lire est a ecrire alors qu'on a une ecole et la mosque qui propose ce service dans notre quartier.

sa reponse est "diha frassek, et redonne moi le credit que je t'ai donne quand tu as acheter... ". :D .

chrito liya sda3.

alors ma question est pour bilad atlas and co comment vous pouvez obliger lhaja a aller a l'ecole ? .
C est pas vraiment l haja qui pose probleme au maroc , mais les petits qui forme le futur du Maroc qui delaisse l ecole bach ir3aw laghnam ou labgar

C est pas vraiment l haja qui pose probleme au maroc , mais les petits qui forme le futur du Maroc qui delaisse l ecole bach ir3aw laghnam ou labgar

khay safiot wach ta hadik mdrassa b3da bach imchiw liha nass ? :lol:

dakhla, Khalli Al7ajja fi atti9ar :) Hak lis cette article. Tres interessant. Fi Assameem:

رب عذر أكبر من زلة!
الأحد, 12 آب/أغسطس 2012 01:43 علي أنوزلا

نذ أن جاء عبد الإله بنكيران إلى رآسة الحكومة وهو يصدر التصريحات تلو التصريحات التي يسعى من ورائها إلى كسب ثقة الملك أكثر من سعيه إلى كسب ثقة الشعب المفترى عليه، والذي قاطعت غالبيته الدستور الجديد والانتخابات. و في ظرف نحو ستة أشهر على رآسته للحكومة اتخذ بنكيران من الاجراءات والقرارات التي قصمت ظهر فقراء هذا الشعب، ما لم تتخذه حكومة سابقة في مثل هذا الظرف الزمني القياسي. ومع مرور الأيام تتوالي تنازلات بنكيران وحكومته أمام القوة القاهرة للمحيط الملكي، وبالتالي ترتفع ضرباتهم القاسية إليه، فيترجمها بنكيران قرارات وإجراءات موجعة
موجهة إلى الشعب على شكل زيادات تمس قوته اليومي أو اعتقالات لأحراره أو تعنيف للمحتجين من أبنائه أو محاربة لمن يحاربون الفساد حقا...
ي هذا السياق يأتي بيان اعتذار بنكيران الذي يجُبُّ كل ما سبقه من حيث الإذعان والخضوع لإرادة المحيط الملكي وليس لإرادة الشعب. ومن هذا المنظور يجب قراءة بيان الاعتذار هذا الذي تجاوز كل "زلات" و"قفشات"، بنكيران السابقة، من حيث حجم الإهانة التي يتعرض إليها رئيس الحكومة من محيط الملك، وهو الذي خلال حملته الانتخابية خاطب صلاح الدين مزوار ساخرا ومتحديا: "من أين ستأتي باستقلالية القرار ومن أين ستأتي بالقوة لتتحمل مسؤوليتك إن أصبحت رئيسا للحكومة وتصمد أمام التعليمات الصادرة عن أشخاص يدعون القرب من المحيط الملكي ؟ ما عندكش هذه القوة."

La suite sur:
http://www.lakome.com/%D8%B1%D8%A3%D9%8A/106-editorial/16782-%D8%B1%D8%A8-%D8%B9%D8%B0%D8%B1-%D8%A3%D9%83%D8%A8%D8%B1-%D9%85%D9%86-%D8%B2%D9%84%D8%A9.html

Ahum.. sounds familiar doesn't it? :ohno:

No it doesn't. I have thick skin.
I watch Makhzen TV every day and yet I don't find it boring. doukali (and maybe you too) gets bored quickly once he sees things not flowing in his direction. So it doesn't sound familiar.

khay safiot wach ta hadik mdrassa b3da bach imchiw liha nass ? :lol:

Rah hadak chi ligalte f l poste diali lakhrani

+1 c'est pas une baraka et une tawila pour 5 qui va me donner envie d’étudier.
Le pauvre petit campagnard n'as pas a supporter cette situation autant ir3a laghnam que rester dans des brarak
l'Etat doit prendre ses responsabilités et construire des écoles avec tout ce qui va avec terrain de sport, sanitaires, cantines et infirmeries


^^

wachmen msaken. loukan rahoum ghir ba3da yeqdiou belikayen loukan rahoum labas.

ewa chnu mazal kaddier f leurope ,yek li bgha yakra yakra wakha ykoun f jbel ,welli bgha yakhdem yakhdem wakha ykoun mane3ref fien ...aji lmaghreb w bayyena 7enneyt yaddek

Al Harmaka High Tech:

المغرب يستورد مدرعات مصفحة أمريكية الصنع لقمع الاحتجاجات الشعبية

http://www.lakome.com/images/stories/2012/0815/police.jpg

http://www.lakome.com/%D9%85%D8%AC%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%B9/84-%D9%85%D8%AC%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%B9/16896-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%BA%D8%B1%D8%A8-%D9%8A%D8%B3%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%AF-%D9%85%D8%AF%D8%B1%D8%B9%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D9%85%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D8%A9-%D8%A3%D9%85%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%86%D8%B9-%D9%84%D9%82%D9%85%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AD%D8%AA%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D8%B9%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%A9.html

No it doesn't. I have thick skin.
I watch Makhzen TV every day and yet I don't find it boring. doukali (and maybe you too) gets bored quickly once he sees things not flowing in his direction. So it doesn't sound familiar.

this is a BIG contradication :ohno: well our 2M and Oula are sanitised and does not cover all the problems and you still dont find it boring??? this is new :)
i on the other hand dont like to see project initation (whether it is M6 or someone else), that really turn me off :)
you are pre-programmed to ONLY see the problems but never solutions. you are happy to just highlight what is wrong but never actual and practical solution

BilladAtlas & Co can be categorized as : look at that horrible makhzen, did you see what M6 did? how dare the government spend money like that? and so on...you are like BERRE7
most others are like this : ok, we have problems, so what can we do to help? this is the pragmatic way

Many people were afraid that this would happen. Tamazight is according to the constituion an official language, but the government is not really interested to implent it real life or in government instutions..
Tamazight as official language was just a lie to fool the people who speak tamazight...too good to be true..



Exclusion of Tamazight from Ministry of Justice’s Job Announcement angers Amazigh activists


Morocco World News

Rabat, August 12, 2012

Although the new constitution, approved in July 2011, turned Tamazight into an official language, it seems that the Amazigh people will still have to wait before seeing its provisions implemented on the ground.

The Official journal number 6070 issued on 13 Ramadan, corresponding to July 23, 2012, published the decision of the Minister of Justice and Freedom, Mustapha Ramid, concerning the organization of the entry competitions for interpreters accredited by the courts of the Kingdom and the end of training exam.

The decision of the Ministry of Justice and Freedoms, which set 21 October as the date of the written exam, was accompanied by the agenda, in addition to number of vacancies to be filled.

The Journal announced 32 job offers for each language and 7 languages in three districts of the courts of appeal in Rabat, Casablanca and El Jadida.

The decree didn’t include any seats for Tamazight. This exclusion of Tamazight language poses a serious problem in the courts of the Kingdom, especially since the ministry has allotted 4 seats for Hebrew language, Russian, Dutch, Portuguese, Italian respectively and 8 seats for German language, in addition to 4 seats for Arabic.

Many Amazigh people lost their cases in the court due to their inability to neither speak nor understand Arabic.

“Fatma, a forty-year old woman, told MWN that she did understand a word of all what was being talked about in the court when she was brought before the judge in the procedures of divorce held to the court as the behest of her husband.

In line with the constitution, which regards Tamazight an official language along with Arabic, hiring Amazigh interprets is a must in order to facilitate the duties of the judges and help the Amazigh to defend themselves before the courts through the only language they speak.

The absence of the Amazigh language in the announcement of the Ministry of Justice and Freedoms, and the allocation of 4 seats for Hebrew, has angered some Amazigh activists who expressed, on Facebook pages, their disapproval of the resolution, which they regard as discriminatory and unfair to Amazigh language, the second official language of the country.

“The job offers announced by the Ministry of Justice and Freedoms excluding Tamazigh is another attempt from the PJD to marginalize the Amazigh people and their language which is an official language of the country along with Arabic,” said Imenza Muha an Amazigh activist from Goulmima, in south eastern Morocco.

It is worth mentioning that the house of representatives has issued a decree banning the use of Tamazight in the parliament until the provision of logistics and human potential for translation from Tamazight into Arabic.


http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2012/08/51669/exclusion-of-tamazight-from-ministry-of-justices-job-announcement-angers-amazigh-activists/

No it doesn't. I have thick skin.
I watch Makhzen TV every day and yet I don't find it boring. doukali (and maybe you too) gets bored quickly once he sees things not flowing in his direction. So it doesn't sound familiar.

You make it sound like having a thick skin is a good thing. Having a thick skin usually means "not open to any other form of reasoning" - or tunnelvision.

I find the lack of self-criticism of Moroccans kind of boring (yes, let me generalize a bit). It's also a problem of many MRE's by the way. Moroccans have a habit to point the finger to everyone but themselves.

The Algerians did it.
God did it (e.g. it's God's will)
Spain did it.
Europeans did it.
America did it.
Israel did it.
The king did it.
No, its the Makhzen.

A perfect example is rules on the road. We do have them. The government certainly provided those rules, signs everywhere. And they are pretty clear. Nobody obeys them though, not a single Moroccan drives according to these rules.

Your way of reasoning: - "Its because of the corrupt police" or "its because the makhzen didnt provide any proper education".

No it's not. Moroccans just like to show off and break the rules. They perfectly know the rules. They just choose not to obey them. This is the case with many many things. We are just plain stubborn.

You are perfectly able to think by yourself. You are suggesting that he doesn't know what he is talking about since he lives in a different country. In the Netherlands we call this false reasoning. I think its disrespectful because it's a nasty tactic to push the MRE's out of the social debate.

je ne met pas tout les MRE dans le même sac,mais il y'en a certain qui sont complice de la mauvaise gouvernance qu'il y'a au Maroc,et qui soutienne les crapules qui nous gouverne,il y'a même des célébrités comme Debbouze,redone,et d'autres qui font la promotion de ces irresponsables a l'étranger,ils ont tous leur reçu silver grima qui est un joli riad dans la palmeraie de marrakech,rien a voir avec la grima du pauvre qui lui reçoit une grima de taxi !

Maroc : 130 policiers et douaniers sont en état d'arrestation

Les arrestations annoncées de plusieurs membres des forces de l'ordre, il y a quelques jours, sont au nombre de 130. Elles ont eu lieu dans les différents point de transit des MRE, en particulier le port de Nador.

Les arrestations annoncées, par le cabinet royal, le 9 août, s'avèrent, aujourd'hui, d'une ampleur considérable. 130 membres des douanes, de la police et de la gendarmerie affectés notamment aux postes frontaliers ont été arrêtés et suspendus de leurs fonctions, révèle le quotidien L’Economiste, aujourd’hui, mercredi 15 août. En plus, 24 policiers ont été invités à se mettre à la disposition de la Direction générale de la Sûreté nationale.

L’enquête avait été ouverte il y a plusieurs mois sur les agissements frauduleux des fonctionnaires aux postes de transit. Ils sont accusés aujourd'hui d’avoir maltraité des Marocains résidant à l’étranger durant leur passage par certains postes frontières. Plusieurs charges ont été retenues contre eux.

Ces arrestations ont eu lieu principalement au nord et dans l’Oriental : dans les ports de TangerMed et de Tanger ville, à Al Hoceima, Nador, Tetouan, Melilia et Larache. La seule ville de Nador rassemble, à elle seule, 50 des 130 interpellations, dont 30 gendarmes.

De nombreux suspects se sont présentés d’eux même aux autorités lorsque leur suspension leur a été signalée, croit savoir l’Economiste. 9 policiers exerçant au poste frontalier de Bab Sebta se sont rendus à la wilaya de la Sûreté de Tétouan. 27 gendarmes, à Tanger, se sont rendus, samedi 11 août, à la direction générale de la gendarmerie du Nord pour signer les décisions de suspension dont ils font l’objet.

Ces arrestations sont au moins les deuxièmes à toucher des membres des forces de l’ordre marocaine depuis le début de l’année. Le 19 mars, une vingtaine de policiers, a été arrêtée à Rabat, Salé et Temara pour leur rôle présumé dans un trafic de drogue

source:http://www.yabiladi.com/articles/details/12400/maroc-policiers-douaniers-sont-etat.html

je suis avec lhaja "lwalida" maintenant et je lui ai demande pourquoi elle ne veut pas apprendre a lire est a ecrire alors qu'on a une ecole et la mosque qui propose ce service dans notre quartier.

sa reponse est "diha frassek, et redonne moi le credit que je t'ai donne quand tu as acheter... ". :D .

chrito liya sda3.

alors ma question est pour bilad atlas and co comment vous pouvez obliger lhaja a aller a l'ecole ? .

Le problème d'éducation au Maroc n'est pas la question de ces mères et grandes mères illétrées qui acceptent ou pas d'aller s'éduquer, le problème s'articule autour du système éducatif néfaste primitif incapable de s'adapter avec le marché d'emploi.
Alors le problème c'est la jeunesse marocaine coincée avec ce système qui est classé parmis les derniers au monde :bash:

Concernant lwalida, (Mo7arabt l 2omiya ) ils ne leur présentent que l'éducation de l'arabe classique avec sa propre grammaire. J'aurais aimé qu'il est un peu de français et d'informatique vue que c'est indispensable à nos jours pour toute personne.
Sinon ça reste très bien pour les dames qui veulent apprendre le Coran et l'éducation islamique.
Tu peux bien l'aider toi même à commencer d'apprendre l'alphabet; et ainsi de suite.

this is a BIG contradication :ohno: well our 2M and Oula are sanitised and does not cover all the problems and you still dont find it boring??? this is new :)
i on the other hand dont like to see project initation (whether it is M6 or someone else), that really turn me off :)
you are pre-programmed to ONLY see the problems but never solutions. you are happy to just highlight what is wrong but never actual and practical solution

BilladAtlas & Co can be categorized as : look at that horrible makhzen, did you see what M6 did? how dare the government spend money like that? and so on...you are like BERRE7
most others are like this : ok, we have problems, so what can we do to help? this is the pragmatic way

I told you before. You have hard time to hear something different than what the Makhzen has drawn for you. Your slogan is: Think doukali way. Otherwise you're a BERRE7, you are pre-programmed, etc.
It's just SAD. You get frustrated easily when you listen to a different tune.

You live in a modern country. You know what are the TRUE solutions.

Having a teacher cleaning the classroom is NO solution. It's just a distraction from those who are not looking for REAL solutions.
I told you in one of the posts, do your homework about the definition of government role and Civil Society role. You'll understand that your obsession about the teacher not cleaning his classroom has no reason.

You make it sound like having a thick skin is a good thing. Having a thick skin usually means "not open to any other form of reasoning" - or tunnelvision.
................
.......................

Your way of reasoning: - "Its because of the corrupt police" or "its because the makhzen didnt provide any proper education".

No it's not. Moroccans just like to show off and break the rules. They perfectly know the rules. They just choose not to obey them. This is the case with many many things. We are just plain stubborn.

I am open to all your reasoning. But I don't have to agree with them. One thing, I won't be cursing because I don't agree with you. I am not sure about you based on previous posts.

For the rest. You're right about my reasoning. I will say:
its because the makhzen didnt provide any proper education

The slogan of all developped countries is: EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION.

The confirmation is from the way United Nation bases the HDI ranking. EDUCATION is weighted very high.
So YES: its because the makhzen didnt provide any proper education

You say that: We are just plain stubborn. That is just a PASSIVE statement with NO action. No solution suggested!

Rah hadak chi ligalte f l poste diali lakhrani

Sam7ass macheftch l'autre poste!

............................
Concernant lwalida, (Mo7arabt l 2omiya ) ils ne leur présentent que l'éducation de l'arabe classique avec sa propre grammaire. J'aurais aimé qu'il est un peu de français et d'informatique vue que c'est indispensable à nos jours pour toute personne. ....................

+1
Malheureusement, pour notre systeme Mo7arabat AlOmmiya consiste a enseigner l'arabe classique avec sa propre grammaire. On peut parler Darija seulement et ne pas etre un Ommi.

je ne met pas tout les MRE dans le même sac,mais il y'en a certain qui sont complice de la mauvaise gouvernance qu'il y'a au Maroc,et qui soutienne les crapules qui nous gouverne,il y'a même des célébrités comme Debbouze,redone,et d'autres qui font la promotion de ces irresponsables a l'étranger,ils ont tous leur reçu silver grima qui est un joli riad dans la palmeraie de marrakech,rien a voir avec la grima du pauvre qui lui reçoit une grima de taxi !

L'exemple de Debbouze est flagrant. Il aime profiter de sa liberté en France. Mais ca ne le derrange pas que ca ne soit pas le cas pour les autres au Maroc. Pire, il fait l'éloge de la situation au pays.
Les artistes dial Akhir Azzamann.

I told you before. You have hard time to hear something different than what the Makhzen has drawn for you. Your slogan is: Think doukali way. Otherwise you're a BERRE7, you are pre-programmed, etc.
It's just SAD. You get frustrated easily when you listen to a different tune.

You live in a modern country. You know what are the TRUE solutions.

Having a teacher cleaning the classroom is NO solution. It's just a distraction from those who are not looking for REAL solutions.
I told you in one of the posts, do your homework about the definition of government role and Civil Society role. You'll understand that your obsession about the teacher not cleaning his classroom has no reason.

i have to laugh :lol:

so someone that disagrees with you has to be pro-makhzen?!?

i am old enough to know what a governments supposed to do!

and i suggest that you also do some homework about what a civil society is all about

and as my obsession about the teacher, if that is the way you see it, well if you read my comment(s) and paid attention, it was more about the role of the society than the actual teacher....and it was ONLY one comment so that is hardly an obsession compared to the over 100 about makhzen/M6

EDUCATION,EDUCATION,EDUCATION is the same as tony blair's...interesting!!!

i have to laugh :lol:

so someone that disagrees with you has to be pro-makhzen?!?

i am old enough to know what a governments supposed to do!

and i suggest that you also do some homework about what a civil society is all about

and as my obsession about the teacher, if that is the way you see it, well if you read my comment(s) and paid attention, it was more about the role of the society than the actual teacher....and it was ONLY one comment so that is hardly an obsession compared to the over 100 about makhzen/M6

EDUCATION,EDUCATION,EDUCATION is the same as tony blair's...interesting!!!

No. You can disagree with me and not be pro-Makhzen. Read carefully what I wrote. I said : what the Makhzen has drawn for you. Look at it deeply. You're old enough.

And back to the slogan: EDUCATION,EDUCATION,EDUCATION. It's not just Tony Blair. All people looking forward will tell you:
EDUCATION,EDUCATION,EDUCATION

i have to laugh :lol:

so someone that disagrees with you has to be pro-makhzen?!?

i am old enough to know what a governments supposed to do!

and i suggest that you also do some homework about what a civil society is all about

and as my obsession about the teacher, if that is the way you see it, well if you read my comment(s) and paid attention, it was more about the role of the society than the actual teacher....and it was ONLY one comment so that is hardly an obsession compared to the over 100 about makhzen/M6

EDUCATION,EDUCATION,EDUCATION is the same as tony blair's...interesting!!!




Doukali, the state is obligated to profide their people with good education, clean schools, clean hospitals and medical equipment etc. This are the jobs of the Ministery of Education and Helath Care..
Moroccan people pay tax, so they should get descent health care and education in return..

Why should teachers renovate or paint their schools? People who live in old medinas don't also renovate or paint their homes, the state is the one who renovates this medinas. The medina of Casablanca, Fez, Tetouan are all going to be renovated by the state..
Old colonials/historical building are renovated/repainted by the state.
Many poor neighbourhood are renovated by the state, they get a paint job, parcs, new facilities etc

Doukali, the state is obligated to profide their people with good education, clean schools, clean hospitals and medical equipment etc. This are the jobs of the Ministery of Education and Helath Care..
Moroccan people pay tax, so they should get descent health care and education in return..

Why should teachers renovate or paint their schools? People who live in old medinas don't also renovate or paint their homes, the state is the one who renovates this medinas. The medina of Casablanca, Fez, Tetouan are all going to be renovated by the state..
Old colonials/historical building are renovated/repainted by the state.
Many poor neighbourhood are renovated by the state, they get a paint job, parcs, new facilities etc

:ohno:
i dont want to go back to this debate again because there is no one to debate with!

because mister79 and biladatlas are refusing to understand!!
listen, go back and read what i said and read it slowly and tell me where i said that it is not the responsibilty of the governement to renovate/fix schools and everything else?

all i said was that if the classroom is not clean then it is the responsibility of the teacher to make sure it is clean! can get the kids to speand 5 mins to clean THEIR classroom, and by doing so the teacher is giving the kids a valuable lesson.
the same with a bus driver whose resposibilty to make sure that the bus is clean before he/she takes it from the depot.
the same for an imam to make sure that the mosque is clean because

if the classroom is not clean then the teacher HAS TO DO something, and just teaching in that environment like that is not acceptable.

an example, where you work, if you see an empty can on the floor, would you a) pick it up and put in a bin eventhough it is not your responsibility b) do nothing and wait till some cleaner comes and pick it up?

like biladatlas said
EDUCATION how to read and write
EDUCATION how to behave nicely within society, including keeping the place clean
EDUCATION good work ethics and not waiting for someone to do something when you can do it yourself

and this does not mean that the government/mekhzen/M6/el himma/benkirane or whoever in charge is not responsible!

i just hope you got my point.

Dutch Member of Parliament Tofik Dibi asked questions to the Dutch government about rapper Mouad 'El Haqed' Belghouat who is in prison. He called also other musicians to support this rapper.


http://3voor12.vpro.nl/nieuws/2012/augustus/Tofik-Dibi-op-de-bres-voor-gevangen-Marokkaanse-rapper.html

ewa chnu mazal kaddier f leurope ,yek li bgha yakra yakra wakha ykoun f jbel ,welli bgha yakhdem yakhdem wakha ykoun mane3ref fien ...aji lmaghreb w bayyena 7enneyt yaddek
shkoun li galek rani f leurope dourki? kolchi kif kif, ghir t7elou fhadak lfoum.

reportage sur envoyé special france 2 now, sa parle des souks de Marrakech et ses contrefaçon !

I am open to all your reasoning. But I don't have to agree with them. One thing, I won't be cursing because I don't agree with you. I am not sure about you based on previous posts.

For the rest. You're right about my reasoning. I will say:
its because the makhzen didnt provide any proper education

The slogan of all developped countries is: EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION.

The confirmation is from the way United Nation bases the HDI ranking. EDUCATION is weighted very high.
So YES: its because the makhzen didnt provide any proper education

You say that: We are just plain stubborn. That is just a PASSIVE statement with NO action. No solution suggested!

In the area's where there is proper education I have seen parents letting their children dropping out from school? Why? In order to either work on the fields, help in the households or work in a restaurant. And it's not because they need money, no they just think education is overrated. Even though the teachers and/or government gives them incentives to go to school, they don't. I have talked with a shitload of Moroccan children about this, as a MRE I tried to show them the importance of education. Yet, they don't give a shit. So its not as black as white as you are stating here. And its not only education, as I said before - its also the use of other state facilities - like roads. The makhzen has definately made traffic-rules. Yet hardly anyone obeys them.

This means that even when the facilities are there, Moroccans tend to be stubborn and do things their own way. We can also see this kind of culture going on in Europe. Drop-out from school is the highest amongst Moroccans.

Must be the makhzen there as well right? :lol:

Doukali, the state is obligated to profide their people with good education, clean schools, clean hospitals and medical equipment etc. This are the jobs of the Ministery of Education and Helath Care..
Moroccan people pay tax, so they should get descent health care and education in return..

Why should teachers renovate or paint their schools? People who live in old medinas don't also renovate or paint their homes, the state is the one who renovates this medinas. The medina of Casablanca, Fez, Tetouan are all going to be renovated by the state..
Old colonials/historical building are renovated/repainted by the state.
Many poor neighbourhood are renovated by the state, they get a paint job, parcs, new facilities etc

You act like the Moroccan state has unlimited acces to money. The medina's are being renovated by the state because of the tourist-revenue. Yet in my opinion - if the people can afford to buy a house - they should be able to afford some paint. Painting should thus not be payed by the state at all.

Au contraire. The government should make a law in which people should be forced to repaint their house every 5 years or so.

In the area's where there is proper education I have seen parents letting their children dropping out from school? Why? In order to either work on the fields, help in the households or work in a restaurant. And it's not because they need money, no they just think education is overrated. Even though the teachers and/or government gives them incentives to go to school, they don't. I have talked with a shitload of Moroccan children about this, as a MRE I tried to show them the importance of education. Yet, they don't give a shit. So its not as black as white as you are stating here. And its not only education, as I said before - its also the use of other state facilities - like roads. The makhzen has definately made traffic-rules. Yet hardly anyone obeys them.

This means that even when the facilities are there, Moroccans tend to be stubborn and do things their own way. We can also see this kind of culture going on in Europe. Drop-out from school is the highest amongst Moroccans.

Must be the makhzen there as well right? :lol:

Ok. Let's keep your reasoning going here for a moment. You're saying that Moroccan (at least the one you talked) don't give a shit to education. That's what you said. Can you find some reasons why?

Ok. Let's keep your reasoning going here for a moment. You're saying that Moroccan (at least the one you talked) don't give a shit to education. That's what you said. Can you find some reasons why?

Yep, its blended within our culture. In other countries, education determines your status, in our culture, money determines status. Look at what car he drives, look at the house he has! "Yes but thats all drug money" "Yeah, but you can't do it, can you!"

As I said, you can also see this within community of Moroccans abroad. Or are you telling me, the facilities in Europe are bad as well?

Enfin quelqu'un qui a réagit contre la mafia de l'education

http://lakome.com/%D9%85%D8%AC%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%B9/84-%D9%85%D8%AC%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%B9/16966-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%88%D9%81%D8%A7-%D9%8A%D9%82%D8%AA%D8%B7%D8%B9-%D8%B4%D9%87%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%86-%D9%85%D9%86-%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%AA%D8%A8-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%B2%D9%8A%D9%86-%D9%88%D9%8A%D9%82%D8%B1%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%AE-%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%AD%D9%82%D9%87%D9%85.html

Yep, its blended within our culture. In other countries, education determines your status, in our culture, money determines status. Look at what car he drives, look at the house he has! "Yes but thats all drug money" "Yeah, but you can't do it, can you!"

As I said, you can also see this within community of Moroccans abroad. Or are you telling me, the facilities in Europe are bad as well?

I agree with you for a part that this has become culture. But the reason is that our parents and other parents of the Moroccan people who live abroad are totally not good educated. Most of them can not even read and write. That is why they can't stimulate their childeren to do better a schools and think making money is more important.
You have parents who say to their childeren who study stop and go work in a factory to make money just like they did in the past.
This people don't realize how important education is because the Moroccan state never educated them..
Moroccan parents who are better educated all stimulate their childeren.

The third generation of Moroccans is getting better educated, because their parents are better educated than the first generation.
They stimulate their childeren, go with them to school etc
If I look to my sister , brother in low and other Moroccans of the same age they stimulate their childeren to do better a school, helps them with homework etc
The first geneation never did this with their childeren..I don't know any Moroccans who's parents helped them with homework, went with them to school meetings etc

You act like the Moroccan state has unlimited acces to money. The medina's are being renovated by the state because of the tourist-revenue. Yet in my opinion - if the people can afford to buy a house - they should be able to afford some paint. Painting should thus not be payed by the state at all.

Au contraire. The government should make a law in which people should be forced to repaint their house every 5 years or so.

Their is enough money in Morocco. You should read the report of the corruption commission of Morocco. Billions from the Social Fund have been dissapeared in the past years.



Het laatste rapport van de Nationale Commissie om publiek geld te beschermen laat ons ene klein kijkje nemen in hoe erg die corruptie is in een land waar de kloof tussen arm en rijk is enorm is en alsmaar enormer wordt.



Het rapport van de commissie noemt in de eerste instantie namen op van leden van politieke partijen die honderden hectares grond van de stad hebben ingelijfd op een illegale manier; Ali Belhadj (Vrijheden Liga partij) 450 hectare, Mahjoubi Aherdaan (Volksbeweging partij) 328 hectare, Ourahou Elhalai (Partij van de Vooruitgang en Socialisme) 609 hectare, Boudlal Bouhdoud (RASSEMBLEMENT NATIONAL DES INDEPENDANTS) 380 hectare, Abdelrazak Mouissat (Socialistische Unie partij) 200 hectare, Mohamed Talmoust (Sociaal-Democratische Beweging Partij) 123 hectare, Milouda Elalj (Hizb Istiqlal) 138 hectare, abdessalam Elbayari (UNION CONSTITUTIONNELLE) 165 hectare, Moulay Elbachir Badla (RASSEMBLEMENT NATIONAL DES INDEPENDANTS) 77 hectare, Ayad Benali (Volksbeweging partij) 302 hectare, Khalid Barkia (Volksbeweging partij) 1082 hectare, Mohamed Barkia (CONGRES NATIONAL ITTIHADI) 88 hectare, Lahcen Bouaoud (Volksbeweging partij) 816 hectare, Tarik Elkabbaj (Socialistische Unie partij) 339 hectare, Bouamar Taghouan (Hizb Istiqlal) 153 hectare.



Het rapport bevat ook cijfers over andere vormen van corruptie zoals de verspilling en diefstal van 115 miljard Dirham bij het Fonds van Sociale Zekerheid, dit gigantische bedrag is 14 keer het Marokkaans reserve aan Buitenlands valuta in 2001 en 34% van het bruto nationaal inkomen van Marokko in hetzelfde jaar.
Dat bedrag zou volgens het rapport genoeg zijn om 2 miljoen banen te creëren.
Het rapport noemt ook andere instanties en bedrijven waar miljarden dirham verdwijnen zoals; OFFICE CHERIFIEN DES PHOSPHATES (10 miljard dirham), Comanav (400 miljoen Dirham), Office National des Transports (20 miljoen dirham), Royal Air Maroc (bedrag onbekend), etc etc...

Een van de schokkende feiten die het rapport opnoemt is dat 70% van de nationale visproductie op een illegale manier wordt verhandeld.


Het rapport noemt verder andere manieren van corruptie en verspilling van publiek geld zoals de privatisering van staatsbedrijven, volgens het rapport die verschillende voorbeelden heeft genoemd zouden die bedrijven voor belachelijke prijzen zijn verkocht terwijl ze in werkelijkheid veel meer geld waard zijn; privatisering van Hyatt regency hotels (verkocht voor 18 miljard terwijl de marktwaarde 27 miljard dirham was), privatisering van Ikoz bedrijf ( verkocht voor het symbolische 1 dirham terwijl het bedrijf de staat 40 miljard dirham had gekost en terwijl de fabriek 90 miljoen dirham aan voorraad had), de verkoop van S.A.M.I.R aan een Saoedisch bedrijf voor 300 miljoen DOLLAR terwijl de marktwaarde van het bedrijf 2 miljard DOLLAR was, een canadees bedrijf bood 1 miljard dollar aan voor het bedrijf plus de belofte om 700 miljoen dollar te investeren in het bedrijf.



Ondanks de gigantische cijfers die in het rapport zijn opgenoemd is dit slechts het topje van de ijsberg wat de corruptie betreft in Marokko die volgens Wikileaks rapporten tot in de koninklijke paleis is doorgedrongen.

Yep, its blended within our culture. In other countries, education determines your status, in our culture, money determines status. Look at what car he drives, look at the house he has! "Yes but thats all drug money" "Yeah, but you can't do it, can you!"

As I said, you can also see this within community of Moroccans abroad. Or are you telling me, the facilities in Europe are bad as well?

Let's say that's the case, what actions should be taken to tackle this phenomenon? Who should lead these actions? People who are already affected by this culture? Those ruling the country?

^^ Il faut revaloriser l'éducation tout simplement, comme à l'étranger. Et ça ne relève pas de la responsabilité des paysans dans les douars coupés du monde que je sâche. Nous sommes en 2012 les gars, si être "weld l9ayed flane, weld tajer fertlane" était une réussite sociale du temps de nos grands parents, ce ne doit plus être le cas aujourd'hui. Maintenant la réussite doit passer par l'éducation, pas par l'héritage.

Let's say that's the case, what actions should be taken to tackle this phenomenon? Who should lead these actions? People who are already affected by this culture? Those ruling the country?

i think it is both....but ultimately it is the government who is responsible BUT everyone has to do something, even little while waiting for change from the people in charge.
also, society has to look into itself and see what is wrong maybe a bit of soul-searching. you can change laws and things but as long as the moroccan society still behaves the way it is behaving then we will achieve nothing.

and importantly, we have to learn how to obey the laws even if we don't agree with them.

I agree with you for a part that this has become culture. But the reason is that our parents and other parents of the Moroccan people who live abroad are totally not good educated. Most of them can not even read and write. That is why they can't stimulate their childeren to do better a schools and think making money is more important.
You have parents who say to their childeren who study stop and go work in a factory to make money just like they did in the past.
This people don't realize how important education is because the Moroccan state never educated them..
Moroccan parents who are better educated all stimulate their childeren.

The third generation of Moroccans is getting better educated, because their parents are better educated than the first generation.
They stimulate their childeren, go with them to school etc
If I look to my sister , brother in low and other Moroccans of the same age they stimulate their childeren to do better a school, helps them with homework etc
The first geneation never did this with their childeren..I don't know any Moroccans who's parents helped them with homework, went with them to school meetings etc

simple...France and the Moroccan elite are responsible :)

i think the reason why the first generation of Moroccans that we went to Europe in the 60s and 70s were illiterate is that they were born during the french occupation where schools were very few and limited to a very select group...it is that system that is mostly responsible for that generation illiteracy.
having said, the government could have spent more money on education but they chose not and instead we are where we are.

i read this nice analysis about the education situation of MREs in Europe and it clearly shows that there is a correlation between that first generation of Moroccans illiteracy and the current situation of their European-born children or grand-children.

i will dig the document and paste the link later on.

^^ Il faut revaloriser l'éducation tout simplement, comme à l'étranger. Et ça ne relève pas de la responsabilité des paysans dans les douars coupés du monde que je sâche. Nous sommes en 2012 les gars, si être "weld l9ayed flane, weld tajer fertlane" était une réussite sociale du temps de nos grands parents, ce ne doit plus être le cas aujourd'hui. Maintenant la réussite doit passer par l'éducation, pas par l'héritage.

Oui il faut revaloriser l'éducation. On ne peut pas demander au paysan de valoriser l'éducation. On a besoin de leaders qui peuvent avoir un impact sur nous pourqu'on change nos méthodes et nos facons de voir les choses.

Pour resumer: On ne peut pas demander aux gens de changer des choses qui font partie de leurs culture. Il faut plutot que les leaders (les vrais) créent des mécanismes intelligents pour forcer le changement dans la bonne direction malgré cette culture et sa resistance. Sinon, ca sert a quoi un leader?

i think it is both....but ultimately it is the government who is responsible BUT everyone has to do something, even little while waiting for change from the people in charge.
also, society has to look into itself and see what is wrong maybe a bit of soul-searching. you can change laws and things but as long as the moroccan society still behaves the way it is behaving then we will achieve nothing.

and importantly, we have to learn how to obey the laws even if we don't agree with them.

But if you read what Muttie says there is one category of people that cannot change for cultural reasons. This category doesn't value Education. You cannot ask them to take actions. Someone in this country has to step up and take the necessary actions despite the cultural obstacles. That's the leader the country needs to take us out of this mess. So far, this leader (or leaders, may have many) didn't show up yet. Our ranking in human development proves it.
We are still waiting for AlMahdi Almontadar.

Oui il faut revaloriser l'éducation. On ne peut pas demander au paysan de valoriser l'éducation. On a besoin de leaders qui peuvent avoir un impact sur nous pourqu'on change nos méthodes et nos facons de voir les choses.

Pour resumer: On ne peut pas demander aux gens de changer des choses qui font partie de leurs culture. Il faut plutot que les leaders (les vrais) créent des mécanismes intelligents pour forcer le changement dans la bonne direction malgré cette culture et sa resistance. Sinon, ca sert a quoi un leader?

Est-ce si dur à comprendre a 3ibad llah ? :ohno:

Oui il faut revaloriser l'éducation. On ne peut pas demander au paysan de valoriser l'éducation. On a besoin de leaders qui peuvent avoir un impact sur nous pourqu'on change nos méthodes et nos facons de voir les choses.

Pour resumer: On ne peut pas demander aux gens de changer des choses qui font partie de leurs culture. Il faut plutot que les leaders (les vrais) créent des mécanismes intelligents pour forcer le changement dans la bonne direction malgré cette culture et sa resistance. Sinon, ca sert a quoi un leader?

On a quand meme pratiquement 40% des Actifs qui travaillent dans l'agriculture, pres d'1 actif Marocain sur 2 travaille dans l'agriculture, comment voulons nous develloper ou changer les methodes avec une telle repartition ? :nuts:

Le Marocain doit arreter de penser qu'a Fellaha, il doit encourager l'education de ses enfants meme si l'Etat ne l'aide pas, de maniere a ce que ses enfants ne sortent pas du systeme educatif sans diplome, pour aller ensuite souvent partager une terre pauvre avec ses freres et soeurs, et tout ca avec des moyens derisoires...

Let's say that's the case, what actions should be taken to tackle this phenomenon? Who should lead these actions? People who are already affected by this culture? Those ruling the country?


No, not those ruling the country. Those kids do not care about what those have to say anyway. They do care what their parents say, or what their families say. The social ties within the Moroccan culture are very very strong. The solution is to have the well educated Moroccans, like you and me for example, to speak out against these bad cultural elements. We have to criticize those who deal drugs, those who drop-out, we have to play it hard. Not sit back and blame everyone but themselves. Doing that will not give them incentives to go to school at all. Children in rural China have crappy facilities as well, yet they want to learn - it's in their culture. They know knowledge is power..we (and by we, I say it again, I mean all the educated Moroccans).

Seriously, as I said before, most of the time it has nothing to do with facilities. In Europe we have great facilities, yet they do not wish to educate themselves as money is priority number one. A deluxe vehicle, an armani suit, thats what they want... education comes in last. That has to change.

I agree with you for a part that this has become culture. But the reason is that our parents and other parents of the Moroccan people who live abroad are totally not good educated. Most of them can not even read and write. That is why they can't stimulate their childeren to do better a schools and think making money is more important.
You have parents who say to their childeren who study stop and go work in a factory to make money just like they did in the past.
This people don't realize how important education is because the Moroccan state never educated them..
Moroccan parents who are better educated all stimulate their childeren.

The third generation of Moroccans is getting better educated, because their parents are better educated than the first generation.
They stimulate their childeren, go with them to school etc
If I look to my sister , brother in low and other Moroccans of the same age they stimulate their childeren to do better a school, helps them with homework etc
The first geneation never did this with their childeren..I don't know any Moroccans who's parents helped them with homework, went with them to school meetings etc

I'm sorry to say, but I think that last thing you mentioned is a bad excuse. The Chinese and Turks don't have these problems on the same scale as Moroccans, howcome? Besides, I'm a youngster from the second generation. My parents indeed never helped me or either of my brothers and/or sisters with their homework. Yet I got a mastersdegree in Law.

And thats what my problem is in general when I see this thread. I am just tired of Moroccans always pointing their fingers to other people, yet they keep failing to understand that they are the ones keeping themselves backward.

We can't get a follower to become a leader overnight. That's why our current way of government won't succeed until we change how we elect our leaders IMO.

Prêt d'un avion : Le roi du Maroc très généreux avec les Sarkozy


Décidément, le roi du Maroc Mohammed VI prend vraiment soin de ses amis français, Nicolas et Carla Sarkozy ! Après leur avoir prêté des palais à plusieurs reprises, voici qu'il leur a prêté un avion pour se rendre en vacances...

On ne pourra pas dire que Mohammed VI, roi du Maroc, ne prend pas soin de ses amis ! En effet, lors de leurs nombreux voyages au Maroc, pendant le quinquennat de Nicolas Sarkozy et depuis sa défaite, le roi du Maroc a prêté ses luxueux palais à plusieurs reprises au couple.

La dernière fois, fin juillet, les Sarkozy ont pu déposer leurs valises dans la magnifique villa Jnane Lebkir, située à 3 km de la capitale marocaine, Marrakech, au bord de la palmeraie. La résidence a offert au couple toute la tranquillité et le confort dont ils avaient besoin. Ce n'est d'ailleurs pas la première fois qu'ils y résidaient, puisque le roi l'avait déjà mise à leur disposition plusieurs fois à Noël.

Direction le sud sans passer par Paris

C'est aussi dans cette maison que Nicolas et Carla Sarkozy étaient venus se reposer, loin de l'agitation française, après la défaite du président sortant à l'élection présidentielle de début mai. Après leur séjour au Maroc fin juillet, le couple avait prévu de prolonger ses vacances au Cap Nègre dans le sud de la France, où la famille de Carla Bruni possède une villa au bord de la mer, près du Lavandou.

Et grâce à la générosité de leur ami marocain Mohammed VI, inutile de s'encombrer par un retour à Paris ! En effet, le roi leur a tout simplement prêté l'un de ses avions pour se rendre directement dans le sud de la France... Une attitude qui n'est pas sans rappeler la période bling-bling d'après élection à la présidence de Nicolas Sarkozy, lorsqu'il avait passé ses vacances sur le yacht de son ami Bolloré, et qu'il lui avait été reproché son copinage avec les plus riches de ce monde...

source:http://www.planet.fr/dossiers-de-la-redaction-pret-d-un-avion-le-roi-du-maroc-tres-genereux-avec-les-sarkozy.235658.1466.html

et pendant ce temps son peuple mendit pour ne pas avoir faim...
Il est plus président le nain que je sache pourquoi ces courbettes de la part du roi ??

Their is enough money in Morocco. You should read the report of the corruption commission of Morocco. Billions from the Social Fund have been dissapeared in the past years.

This is something we can imagine, but when you read the figures you would wish that all this corrupted, stealing bastards will be catched and put in prison.
But Benkiran obviously doesn't have the power or will to stand up against these stealing elite.

Moroccans need to be educated and teached that knowledge is good and for those fue muslims left it's more or less required according to Islam. TV is good to bring this to their mind, but TV is used to fill their brains with empty soaps & music and to glorify our mighty sixto (M6).
Educated people have a handicap: QUESTIONING what happens around them. And now you can all tell me how this can be a benifit for the corrupted ruling class in Morocco. H2 & his elite friends knew how to keep the croud under control, state of schools today is a legacy of that.

If Moroccans were educated we would have had an Moroccan spring a few decades ago!

This is something we can imagine, but when you read the figures you would wish that all this corrupted, stealing bastards will be catched and put in prison.
But Benkiran obviously doesn't have the power or will to stand up against these stealing elite.

Moroccans need to be educated and teached that knowledge is good and for those fue muslims left it's more or less required according to Islam. TV is good to bring this to their mind, but TV is used to fill their brains with empty soaps & music and to glorify our mighty sixto (M6).
Educated people have a handicap: QUESTIONING what happens around them. And now you can all tell me how this can be a benifit for the corrupted ruling class in Morocco. H2 & his elite friends knew how to keep the croud under control, state of schools today is a legacy of that.

If Moroccans were educated we would have had an Moroccan spring a few decades ago!



You are 100% right. The Makhazen are afraid for good educated young people, because they know they will ask for democracy, freedom of speech etc. That is why Hassan II keept the people illiterate and went after students.

But the Makhazen are making a huge mistake this aren't the sixties, seventies, eighties anymore. You can not repress, arrest people, steal money and get away with it anymore.
Thanks to social media and foreign tv channels the young people know what is happening in Morocco. On social media their is a lot of debates about politics, democracy, palace, corruption, the elite etc.
Not so grazy that the Moroccan secret service is watching Facebook and other media.

The young good educated youth in Morocco will demand democracy and nobody is going to stop them.

Europeans had an enlightenment 400 years ago and it's time for Moroccans to have one to. We only criticize others but all the problems are our own fault. Who gives the corrupt police officer money? We do! Who drinks tea and gossip 24/7 while there kids are outside doing crazy shit? We!

We don't educate our self and if we do study our own people ask us; why?! Or how many scholarship do you get? Why you're not married yet?

If you go to the city center you'll find Moroccans all over, but libraries are only used by Moroccans as a place you can go if you have to pee while shopping.

I'm sorry but our people are really idiots. We are our main problem (both Amazigh and Arabs, in Morocco and outside)

And we are sooooo obsessed by other-ones lives:

"Mohammed has a new Mercedes." - "Yeah but I have a BWM!"

"I saw Yasmina in Amstardam with a boy!!" - "OMG tell me more, what a ho!"

"Rachid is going to New York for a weak." - "Oh really...uhm, I will go to Las Vegas for a month..."

"Did you hear the story about Aziz? He was spotted by Hadj Mbarek drinking inside a café." - "Oh really....Eh I heard he's alcoholic and an addict gambler!"

You are 100% right. The Makhazen are afraid for good educated young people, because they know they will ask for democracy, freedom of speech etc. That is why Hassan II keept the people illiterate and went after students.

But the Makhazen are making a huge mistake this aren't the sixties, seventies, eighties anymore. You can not repress, arrest people, steal money and get away with it anymore.
Thanks to social media and foreign tv channels the young people know what is happening in Morocco. On social media their is a lot of debates about politics, democracy, palace, corruption, the elite etc.
Not so grazy that the Moroccan secret service is watching Facebook and other media.

The young good educated youth in Morocco will demand democracy and nobody is going to stop them.

education alone would not help. i can see 3 things which might help:

1. change the education system and make it less dependent on french language and system and introduce english for business (but not for administration see point 2). this is way we break this 2-tier system once and for all.
2. make ALL of the administration in the local languages, amazigh and arabic (darija) and NO french, this way, the administration would be open to all moroccans. because it is really stupid that people speak french to show that they educated or snobbish...kay bghiw yebanou!! why?!?
3. work on encoureging civisim and self-reliance to moroccans. they need to stop waiting for the government to do everything and instead they can do more to help other poorer moroccans! there are lot of charities from abroad working in morocco with good and bad stories but i think moroccans can do this without intervention of anyone from outside.


i believe that it is a matter of time before we can see big changes and i hope it is not through any revolution

:ohno:source:http://www.planet.fr/dossiers-de-la-redaction-pret-d-un-avion-le-roi-du-maroc-tres-genereux-avec-les-sarkozy.235658.1466.html

et pendant ce temps son peuple mendit pour ne pas avoir faim...
Il est plus président le nain que je sache pourquoi ces courbettes de la part du roi ??

for some reason, it seems that moroccans from poor to the very top (M6) are obsessed with pleasing the europeans, especially the french? as soon as a frenchman asks, moroccans would open wide their legs ...little pride :ohno:

and of course you hear stories of what happening in marrakech, agadir...

Europeans had an enlightenment 400 years ago and it's time for Moroccans to have one to. We only criticize others but all the problems are our own fault. Who gives the corrupt police officer money? We do! Who drinks tea and gossip 24/7 while there kids are outside doing crazy shit? We!

We don't educate our self and if we do study our own people ask us; why?! Or how many scholarship do you get? Why you're not married yet?

If you go to the city center you'll find Moroccans all over, but libraries are only used by Moroccans as a place you can go if you have to pee while shopping.

I'm sorry but our people are really idiots. We are our main problem (both Amazigh and Arabs, in Morocco and outside)



I don't agree with you. Every culture has its negative things. Their are idiots in every culture.

In the Turkish culture honor killings are very normal. If a daughter has a boyfriend or marries someone that the family doesn't like, they send their sons to kill the daughter. You know that a lot of honor killings are happening in Holland by Turkish, Iraqi etc people. We don't know that in the Moroccan culture.
In Turkey men beat the hell out of their wives in public. They are not a ashamed..

source:http://www.planet.fr/dossiers-de-la-redaction-pret-d-un-avion-le-roi-du-maroc-tres-genereux-avec-les-sarkozy.235658.1466.html

et pendant ce temps son peuple mendit pour ne pas avoir faim...
Il est plus président le nain que je sache pourquoi ces courbettes de la part du roi ??

^^
il lui est reconnaissant dans l'affaire du sahara (gdeim izik),l'affaire hosni benslimane ou il y'avait un mandat d'arrêt internanionale contre sa tête (sarkozy l'a annulé 24 heure après qu'il a était émis, et aussi les importations de blè qui tait quasi offert au Maroc sous la prèsidence du nain...

education alone would not help. i can see 3 things which might help:

1. change the education system and make it less dependent on french language and system and introduce english for business (but not for administration see point 2). this is way we break this 2-tier system once and for all.
2. make ALL of the administration in the local languages, amazigh and arabic (darija) and NO french, this way, the administration would be open to all moroccans. because it is really stupid that people speak french to show that they educated or snobbish...kay bghiw yebanou!! why?!?
3. work on encoureging civisim and self-reliance to moroccans. they need to stop waiting for the government to do everything and instead they can do more to help other poorer moroccans! there are lot of charities from abroad working in morocco with good and bad stories but i think moroccans can do this without intervention of anyone from outside.


i believe that it is a matter of time before we can see big changes and i hope it is not through any revolution


I agree with you with 1 and 2..But I am afraid that this will not happen soon.

Their are many charity organisations in Morocco active who help poor people. For example the Justice and Charity is helping a lot of poor people with education, food, health care etc
But Doukali the negative thing is that some of this organisations use charity to gain support from the people for their political ideology. Many Islamic charity organisations help people, but they want people to support their ideas and try to brainwash them.
The christian organisations help poor people, childeren etc , but they want to convert them to christianity.

That is why it is much better that the state does most of the charity.

source:http://www.planet.fr/dossiers-de-la-redaction-pret-d-un-avion-le-roi-du-maroc-tres-genereux-avec-les-sarkozy.235658.1466.html

et pendant ce temps son peuple mendit pour ne pas avoir faim...
Il est plus président le nain que je sache pourquoi ces courbettes de la part du roi ??

^^
il lui est reconnaissant dans l'affaire du sahara (gdeim izik),l'affaire hosni benslimane ou il y'avait un mandat d'arrêt internanionale contre sa tête (sarkozy l'a annulé 24 heure après qu'il a était émis, et aussi les importations de blè qui tait quasi offert au Maroc sous la prèsidence du nain...

J'ai remarqué qu'il y avait des offres au salon SMAP IMMO 2011 du genre : acheté un appart au Maroc et bénéficiez de 10 aller-retour gratuits.

Sarkozy a acheté une villa pour 5 millions d'euros à Marrakech, il a eu son billet aller-retour en vol privé.

Un appart : vol régulier
Une villa/palais : vol privé :D

A mon avis vous tapez a coté, le Roi ne prete pas tout ca a Sarko pour ces beaux yeux, Sarkozy a des liens tres proches avec tout les grands patrons Francais du CAC 40 (Martin Bouygues, Bernard arnault, Bolloré...), le Roi est un businessman, Sarko peut servir d'intermediaire entre eux... je pense que c'est la qu'il faut creuser...

A mon avis vous tapez a coté, le Roi ne prete pas tout ca a Sarko pour ces beaux yeux, Sarkozy a des liens tres proches avec tout les grands patrons Francais du CAC 40 (Martin Bouygues, Bernard arnault, Bolloré...), le Roi est un businessman, Sarko peut servir d'intermediaire entre eux... je pense que c'est la qu'il faut creuser...

Sarkozy ne peut pas arrêter sa carrière politique mais ne veut pas se représenter à une élection.

Il devrait avoir un rôle à la Tony Blair (lui aussi a quitté le pouvoir assez jeune), en tant qu'émissaire spécial de quelque chose à définir. Pourquoi pas "émissaire spéciale de la Méditerrannée".

Le temps nous dira ce qu'il en sera.

:ohno:

for some reason, it seems that moroccans from poor to the very top (M6) are obsessed with pleasing the europeans, especially the french? as soon as a frenchman asks, moroccans would open wide their legs ...little pride :ohno:

and of course you hear stories of what happening in marrakech, agadir...

not sure what you're talking about the khalijis i guess? if so most of the prostitutes are "7aragat" from eljadida(doukala), safi, rabat, casa, zayan... etc. not only the prostitutes but also the female farm workers (200.000 people) or in canning factories, cleaning womans of "lmaw9af" who has a bad reputation, les gendarmes... etc tous ces trucs la ville en est récéptrice net.


أغلبهن وافدات على المدينة خصيصا لامتهان هذه المهنة الخسيسة من مدن البيضاء، آسفي، الرباط، الجديدة، خريب?ة..

source: attajdid (PJD newspaper)

so, tes leçons tu peux te les garder! jusqu'ici je n'ai pas vu de communauté autant conservatrice que les gens de la région d'agadir peut etre les ... [euh...pas vraiment] , faut venir sur le terrain pour comprendre.

not sure what you're talking about the khalijis i guess? if so most of the prostitutes are "7aragat" from eljadida(doukala), safi, rabat, casa, zayan... etc. not only the prostitutes but also the female farm workers (200.000 people) or in canning factories, cleaning womans of "lmaw9af" who has a bad reputation, les gendarmes... etc tous ces trucs la ville en est récéptrice net.


source: attajdid (PJD newspaper)

so, tes leçons tu peux te les garder! jusqu'ici je n'ai pas vu de communauté autant conservatrice que les gens de la région d'agadir peut etre les sahraouis ou rif, faut venir sur le terrain pour comprendre.

you took it personal... typical :ohno:
my comment was not against marrakech or agadir but because these 2 cities are the tourist capitals that attracts most tourism in morocco...so i gave them as an example.
and if they are from doukkala or elsewhere still my point stands.

so i will keep mes lecons and you...well keep living in denial

and if they are from doukkala or elsewhere still my point stands.

so i will keep mes lecons and you...well keep living in denial

i'm not denying anything tout au contraire je suis sérieux, khaliji: d'accord (karita) autant à casa ou marrakech moins à tanger, europeans: pas ok, below 0.1%.
bazz à ceux qui font des raisonnement de leur XXXX kilometres, you can check by yourself dans n'importe quel bar populaire d'alcolos de la ville, c'est importé zéro doute là dessus! j'ai plus de 15 ans dans la ville et je suis un adepte (oui la3fou bla bla) hormis le ramadan biensur je vais pas commencé à balancer les noms de bar sur internet mais je te conseille de faire un tour dans celui pas loin du centre ville (st--- h----) et le fe-----, enjoy le cocktail d'accents. la derniere fois j'ai eu affaire à une d'eljadida l'autre de khenifra et deux de rabat, mais encore une fois lman t3awd zabourek.!! tu devrais vraiment pas connaitre les gens de la région l'anti atlas occidental c'est l'afghanistan relation femmes hommes.

i'm not denying anything tout au contraire je suis sérieux, khaliji: d'accord (karita) autant à casa ou marrakech moins à tanger, europeans: pas ok, below 0.1%.
bazz à ceux qui font des raisonnement de leur XXXX kilometres, you can check by yourself dans n'importe quel bar populaire d'alcolos de la ville, c'est importé zéro doute là dessus! j'ai plus de 15 ans dans la ville et je suis un adepte (oui la3fou bla bla) hormis le ramadan biensur je vais pas commencé à balancer les noms de bar sur internet mais je te conseille de faire un tour dans celui pas loin du centre ville (st--- h----) et le fe-----, enjoy le cocktail d'accents. la derniere fois j'ai eu affaire à une d'eljadida l'autre de khenifra et deux de rabat, mais encore une fois lman t3awd zabourek.!! tu devrais vraiment pas connaitre les gens de la région l'anti atlas occidental c'est l'afghanistan relation femmes hommes.

you are right about the khaliji going for women which might be from doukkala or not which is besides the point...but, europeans go for male prostitutes which sometimes happen to be kids.

aucune idée j'ai rien vu ni entendu concernant donc je ne peux commenter. lahou 3lem
l'endroit le plus chaud de la ville coté homicide et viole est un bidonville... "ghezwa" vers anza on ne traine pas la nuit ni en journée dans le contrée, puis les habitants de bidonvilles démolis en majorité par occasion n'ont aucun lien avec la ville encore moins la région, une minorité des montagnes d'essaouira rien de plus.
comme par hasard l'affaire du genre la plus médiatisé au maroc je te laisses découvrir où ça se passe mais bon aucune mention des origines: http://www.medi1tv.com/ar/%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%AD-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%85%D8%A9-%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%AD-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%85%D8%A9-%D8%A8%D8%B1%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%AC-1865-50 الزمان 08 دجنبر 2003، المكان حي المرابطين بالجديدة، وقعت جريمة قتل ذهب ضحيتها مواطن أمريكي قضى بمدينة الجديدة أكثر من عشرة سنوات. القاتل لم يكن سوى أحد أصدقاء الضحية، حيث قضى معه الليلة في احتساء الخمر وتدخين المخدرات والشذوذ الجنسي، قبل أن يقرر فجأة تصفيته بتسديد 28 طعنة قاتلة بالسكين. ... . mais évitant les cas parlant des études
Menée dans les régions du Moyen Atlas, Souss et Rabat, l’enquête révèle que la prostitution des enfants et des mineures est plus répandue à Meknès, Beni Mellal, Azrou, El Hajeb, et moins à Rabat.
comme tu vois le souss/agadir n'est pas concerné, enfin les régions émettrices vers la ville c'est comme suit:
أغلبهن وافدات على المدينة خصيصا لامتهان هذه المهنة الخسيسة من مدن البيضاء، آسفي، الرباط، الجديدة، خريب?ة..

جريدة التجديد
ajoute à ça les ouvrieres agricoles (200.000 personnes sans blague) majoritairement en provenance des trous du centre du maroc qui certaines d'entre elles font des trucs louche voir meme les cas de sida sont concentré chez cette catégorie http://hespress.com/faits-divers/12627.html حيث تأتي أفواج من العاملات و العاملين من كل المدن المغربية من (أزيلال،دمنات،بني ملال،خنيفرة،خميسات..) . et aussi une partie de celles des usines de conserverie ou autres de lmaw9af. je peux bien comprendre s'il s'agissait d'un village mais là devant toi le deuxieme pole économique du royaume jusqu'il y a peu!

alors n'essaie pas de trouver un quelconque rapport tes entrain de se tromper de cible a3mou les seuls locaux concerné sont ceux li mzawjin avec des allemandes ou hollandaises en nombre bazaaaf à agadir en commencant par mon voisin juste en face et mes proches de famille mais beaucoup moins le cas ces dernieres années puisque c'est le divorce dans tous les cas + surtout terrible réputation de musulman plus récemment, la plupart en embauche dans les hotels avec une clientèle allemande et scandinave ou simplement rencontré dans un pub à l'anglaise l'un d'entre eux durant son job d'été de sauveteur en plage il se foutait des baigneurs et a fini par se marié avec tiens ca me rappelle plein de cochonneries c'est drole lol. avec les énormités sans nom qui trainent dans ce monde virtuel je peux comprendre que tout cela parait chelou de tes XXXX KM .

oops dsl edit répétitif c'est plus claire.

I don't agree with you. Every culture has its negative things. Their are idiots in every culture.

In the Turkish culture honor killings are very normal. If a daughter has a boyfriend or marries someone that the family doesn't like, they send their sons to kill the daughter. You know that a lot of honor killings are happening in Holland by Turkish, Iraqi etc people. We don't know that in the Moroccan culture.
In Turkey men beat the hell out of their wives in public. They are not a ashamed..

You see what you did? You just prove my point again. We are talking about the bad things in OUR culture. Not the Turkish culture.

aucune idée j'ai rien vu ni entendu concernant donc je ne peux commenter. lahou 3lem
l'endroit le plus chaud de la ville coté homicide et viole est un bidonville... "ghezwa" vers anza on ne traine pas la nuit ni en journée dans le contrée, puis les habitants de bidonvilles démolis en majorité par occasion n'ont aucun lien avec la ville encore moins la région, une minorité des montagnes d'essaouira rien de plus.
comme par hasard l'affaire du genre la plus médiatisé au maroc je te laisses découvrir où ça se passe mais bon aucune mention des origines: http://www.medi1tv.com/ar/%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%AD-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%85%D8%A9-%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%AD-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%85%D8%A9-%D8%A8%D8%B1%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%AC-1865-50 الزمان 08 دجنبر 2003، المكان حي المرابطين بالجديدة، وقعت جريمة قتل ذهب ضحيتها مواطن أمريكي قضى بمدينة الجديدة أكثر من عشرة سنوات. القاتل لم يكن سوى أحد أصدقاء الضحية، حيث قضى معه الليلة في احتساء الخمر وتدخين المخدرات والشذوذ الجنسي، قبل أن يقرر فجأة تصفيته بتسديد 28 طعنة قاتلة بالسكين. ... . mais évitant les cas parlant des études

comme tu vois le souss/agadir n'est pas concerné, enfin les régions émettrices vers la ville c'est comme suit:

ajoute à ça les ouvrieres agricoles (200.000 personnes sans blague) majoritairement en provenance des trous du centre du maroc qui certaines d'entre elles font des trucs louche voir meme les cas de sida sont concentré chez cette catégorie http://hespress.com/faits-divers/12627.html حيث تأتي أفواج من العاملات و العاملين من كل المدن المغربية من (أزيلال،دمنات،بني ملال،خنيفرة،خميسات..) . et aussi une partie de celles des usines de conserverie ou autres de lmaw9af. je peux bien comprendre s'il s'agissait d'un village mais là devant toi le deuxieme pole économique du royaume jusqu'il y a peu!

alors n'essaie pas de trouver un quelconque rapport tes entrain de se tromper de cible a3mou les seuls locaux concerné sont ceux li mzawjin avec des allemandes ou hollandaises en nombre bazaaaf à agadir en commencant par mon voisin juste en face et mes proches de famille mais beaucoup moins le cas ces dernieres années puisque c'est le divorce dans tous les cas + surtout terrible réputation de musulman plus récemment, la plupart en embauche dans les hotels avec une clientèle allemande et scandinave ou simplement rencontré dans un pub à l'anglaise l'un d'entre eux durant son job d'été de sauveteur en plage il se foutait des baigneurs et a fini par se marié avec tiens ca me rappelle plein de cochonneries c'est drole lol. avec les énormités sans nom qui trainent dans ce monde virtuel je peux comprendre que tout cela parait chelou de tes XXXX KM .

oops dsl edit répétitif c'est plus claire.

i did not mean to hurt your feelings because you took it personally.

:ohno:حسبيا الله ونعم الوكيل:ohno:
3fyvy6KtJRA

:ohno:حسبيا الله ونعم الوكيل:ohno:
3fyvy6KtJRA
kayen za3eem likayjieb l3aazzz lil che3b dyalo w kayen za3eeem lijab del lil che3b dyalo


khassnaa chi za3eeem bhal hakka;


f1NGUMY9v_I&feature=related

Tres jolie chanson avec des paroles veridiques, mais j'ai envie de repondre a ces jeunes Egyptiens , a leur question ''Matloob za3eem'' , que le peuple egyptien libre a choisit par la voie des urnes leurs za3eem , en la personne de Mohamed Morsi , c'est sa la democratie . Mais vu leur look , je pense que ils devront faire un deuxieme tome de leur chanson ''Matloob za3eem '', parce que Morsi ne va pas vraiment aller vers leurs idees :lol:Sa c'est sur .

:ohno:حسبيا الله ونعم الوكيل:ohno:
3fyvy6KtJRA

J'ai une question:
Pour faire l'allegeance a ce monsieur, doit-on faire Al Wodoue(ablutions) ou peut-on se contenter de atayammom?

مدير عام وكالة الأنباء الرسمية يكتب عن: البيعة باعتبارها انفتاحا على الحداثة!

L'allégeance comme ouverture sur la modernité

L'un des actes fondateurs, en fait et en droit, à travers les siècles, de la singularité politique marocaine est bien l'acte d'allégeance. Par cet acte multiséculaire, renouvelé annuellement, un contrat moral engageant les deux parties, se construit, une relation pérenne formelle et équilibrée entre les droits et les devoirs de chacun
www.map.ma/fr

http://www.larbi.org/public/0006/Maroc-prosternation-.jpg

La modernité comme definie a Makhzenistan.

مدير عام وكالة الأنباء الرسمية يكتب عن: البيعة باعتبارها انفتاحا على الحداثة!



http://www.larbi.org/public/0006/Maroc-prosternation-.jpg

La modernité comme definie a Makhzenistan.

:lol::lol::lol:

Je vois pas qu'est ce qu'une cérémonie Moyen ageuse a de moderne, comment peuvent ils nous faire avaler ca ? :lol:

Je vois pas qu'est ce qu'une cérémonie Moyen ageuse a de moderne, comment peuvent ils nous faire avaler ca ? :lol:

^^
la question c'est plutôt comment arrive t'il a faire avaler sa au ministre et wali qui s'y prête volontiers,le peuple lui ne sait même pas c'est quoi cette tradition Moyenageuse et il s'en tape royalement...

Mdrrr par contre le pote de Biladatlas, est un fervent adepte de cette ceremonie :lol:

C5igi9DL5Tg

^^:hilarious depuis que cette personne suit l'équipe nationale y a plus de resultats

^^:hilarious depuis que cette personne suit l'équipe nationale y a plus de resultats

il a toujours suivi l'équipe nationale ce guignol,c'est juste que maintenant il a youtube et il est filmé souvent par nos chaines alors qu'avant c'était pas le cas,mais c'est vrai que cet enpafé porte la poisse :lol:

Ma ka nebrich nezrab deghya f itla9 l ahkam walakin wakha hakek ka nel9a rassi ka netafa9 m3a ba3d ma ja fhad tahlil



اسليمي يكشف رسائل أقصر حفل ولاء في تاريخ المغرب

http://t1.hespress.com/files/allegeancem6_712633160.jpg

بالرغم من أن الصورة السياسية العامة التي قدمها حفل الولاء في الذكرى الـ13 لتولي الملك محمد السادس العرش، والتي تبين أن الطقوس لازالت لها المكانة الجوهرية في الإستراتيجية التي تعتمد عليها المؤسسة الملكية لتأكيد مشروعيتها السياسية في نظام الحكم، فان الصيغة التي جاء بها حفل الولاء لهذه السنة توضح انه موضوع نقاش داخل النسق الثقافي السياسي المحيط بالمؤسسة الملكية بين المتشبثين بطقوسه القديمة والداعين إلى تجديده .

وفي هذا الصدد يرى عبد الرحيم منار اسليمي، المحلل السياسي المغربي، أن حفل الولاء حمل إشارة سياسية من خلال الصيغة التي جاء بها في الذكرى 13 من حيث مدته الزمنية، والتحليل السوسيولوجي والسياسي للحاضرين، وكذا الرسائل السياسية التي يوجهها للفاعلين الوطنيين والمحيط الإقليمي والدولي ....

هذه الإشارات يضيف اسليمي في اتصال مع "هسبريس" تعني "أن الفلسفة السياسية للنظام السياسي المغربي تعرف تغييرات مقابل وجود "مقاومات" في هذه المرحلة" فالثابت، يتابع اسليمي في تصريحه، أنه "لا يمكن مقارنة حفل الولاء في الذكرى الـ13 في سنة 2012 ببعض المحطات الكبرى في تاريخ حفل الولاء بالمغرب مثل حفل ولاء سنة 1962، لما طلب الملك الحسن الثاني من العلماء مبايعته وجاء تقديم حفل البيعة متأثرا بمناخ بالمرحلة السياسية التي كان يعيشها المغرب أنداك الباحث عن الاستقرار، وبين بيعة 14 غشت 1979 التي رسخت طقوسا تقليدانية قوية، وبين البيعة في حفل ولاء 21 غشت 2012 الذي جاء بدوره يحمل صيغا لها علاقة بفلسفة الحكم ، والتي يبدو فيها أن صيغة حفل الولاء هي موضوع مطروح لنقاش أساسي داخل هذه الفلسفة بين أجنحة متعارضة".

حكومة لا علاقة لها دستوريا بحفل الولاء

واعتبر الباحث في القانون الدستوري بجامعة محمد الخامس بالرباط، أن حفل الولاء لهذه السنة، أي الذكرى الـ13 لتولي الملك محمد السادس العرش، وجه مجموعة من الرسائل السياسية.

فالرسالة الأولى تتمثل في الحيز الزمني، حيث أن حفل الولاء لم يتجاوز عشرة دقائق،ويكون بذلك أقصر حفل ولاء في تاريخ المغرب، والمدة الزمنية في الطقوس التقليدية لها دلالتها السيكولوجية والسياسية، لان الأمر في هذه الطقوس يتعلق بـ"الرعية" و"ثبات الرعية"،فطول المدة الزمنية كان يعد اختبارا سياسيا في الماضي .

أما الرسالة الثانية، يضيف اسليمي، فتتعلق بغياب ملحوظ لأعضاء الحكومة، حيث حضر رئيس الحكومة ضمن المدعوين ولكنه لم يمارس طقوس حفل الولاء، بينما لم يحضر باقي أعضاء الحكومة، بمعنى غابت الحكومة، وهنا يحضر التفسير الدستوري، "فنحن لسنا بصدد وزير أول ولكن رئيس حكومة له مجاله الخاص البعيد عن مجال تجديد البيعة، فهو ليس معنيا بممارسة هذه الطقوس لأنه أصبح يستمد مشروعيته الدستورية من الانتخابات رغم رمزية تعيينه من طرف الملك " يضيف الباحث في القنون الدستوري.

ناهيك على أن حفل الولاء لهذه السنة يقدم إشارة تبرز أننا "أمام حكومة لا علاقة لها دستوريا بحفل الولاء لأنها نابعة من الانتخابات، ونكون بذلك لأول مرة أمام مرجعية الملك المبنية على مشروعية مستمدة من البيعة مقابل شرعية الحكومة ورئيسها المستمدة من صناديق الاقتراع ،وهي إشارة يجب أن تقرا جيدا من طرف رئيس الحكومة الذي يكثر من تقديم الولاء أخرها الاعتذار وتجديد الولاء ،فالملك يمارس مجال مشروعيته و يحافظ للسيد "بنكيران " وحكومته على شرعيتها الانتخابية" .

ويقدم اسليمي ملاحظة هامة حول عدم حضور الحكومة، ومعناه دستوريا أن الملك يرسم مجاله الخاص مقابل مجال رئيس الحكومة في تنزيل الدستور الجديد، "فالحكومة لم تعد هي حكومة "جلالة الملك "كما كان يردد الوزراء الأولون في السابق، ولكن هي حكومة رئيس الحكومة".

http://hespress.com/files/manarslimi_606144755.jpg

وزارة الداخلية لا زالت سيادية

أما عن حضور وزير الداخلية امحند العنصر الذي ينتمي لحزب سياسي مشارك في لحكومة في حفل الولاء، يرى اسليمي أن حضوره يعني أن هذه "الوزارة ولو أنها سلمت إلى الأحزاب السياسية فإنها لازالت وزارة سيادية مجالها ملكي بامتياز ،فقد كان من الممكن أن يحضر الولاة والعمال بدون وزير الداخلية ،خاصة وان الدستور في فصله 145 غير واضح وقابل لكل التأويلات لما ينص على أن الولاة والعمال يمثلون السلطة المركزية في الجماعات الترابية، فالملك هو سلطة مركزية في هذه الحالة، وبالتالي فحضورهم ليس فيه إشكال دستوري، لأن الدستور لا ينص على أنهم يمثلون الدولة آو أنهم تحت رئاسة رئيس الحكومة، لكن وضعية وزير الداخلية مختلفة لان رئيسه هو رئيس الحكومة، وستتضح معالم هذه الوزارة ومكوناتها من ولاة وعمال وباقي رجال السلطة في مضمون التعيينات المقبلة، فقد سبق أن أوضح بلاغ الديوان الملكي في التعيين الأول للولاة والعمال في فترة حكومة "بنكيران " أن رئيس الحكومة كان حاضرا إلى جانب وزير الداخلية في مراحل مسطرة التعيين".

حفل الولاء لهذه السنة يجيب على النقاشات الدائرة

وبخصوص غياب مؤسسة العلماء (المجلس العلمي الأعلى والمجالس العلمية الجهوية)، يلاحظ اسليمي، أن العلماء بالرغم من أنهم ظلوا بعيدين خلال فترة الملك محمد السادس عن هذه الطقوس ،فان غيابهم عن حفل الولاء في الذكرى الـ 13 ، إذا ما قورن بمكانتهم الدستورية الجديدة من خلال الفصل 41 من الدستور، يبين أن هناك تحولا دستوريا قد حصل في إمارة المؤمنين مابين الانتقال من الفصل 19 في دستور 1996 إلى الفصل 41 من الدستور، وغياب مؤسسة العلماء في هذه المرحلة تجيب على النقاشات التي طرحها العلماء- الفاعلون في الفضاء العمومي، فاستمرار غياب مؤسسة العلماء عن هذه الطقوس يبين شكل الطريقة التي يتم بها إنزال إمارة المؤمنين في شكلها الجديد.

وأكد منار اسليمي بأن الصيغة التي جاء بها حفل الولاء في الذكرى الـ13 تجيب على النقاش الذي راج في الفضاء العمومي حول البيعة، وبالتالي فرغم وضوح الصراع بين الجناح الداعي إلى المحافظة عليه بكل طقوسه القديمة والجناح الداعي إلى تجديده، فيبدو انه في صيغته التي مورس بها يتجاوز المبررات التي قدمها وزير الأوقاف ويتجاوز المبررات التي قدمها رئيس المجلس العلمي الأعلى حول حفل الولاء ، ويجيب بطريقة واضحة على أفكار الدكتور "الريسوني"، وهنا يتبين أن هناك جهات في الدولة بدأت تتابع ما يجري من نقاش في الحقل العمومي وتنتبه إليه وتبني عليه قراراتها سواء اتفقت آو اختلفت معه، بل إنها تقدم إجابات عنه خاصة إذا صدرت من عالم ديني مؤثر كالدكتور" الريسوني".

هذا، ويُشار إلى أن حفل الولاء عرف حضورا لفئات المجتمع المدني المرتبطة بمجال المبادرة الوطنية للتنمية البشرية، وهو نوع من التحالفات المحلية الجديدة الذي أسست لها المؤسسة الملكية في السنوات الأخيرة مقارنة مع الماضي.

أما عن حضور بعض أعضاء حزب العدالة والتنمية في حفل الولاء مثل "محمد يتيم" بصفته البرلمانية "يقدم رسالة على النقاشات التي جرت في الأسابيع الأخيرة حول موقف حزب العدالة والتنمية وجناحه الدعوي حركة التوحيد والإصلاح من حفل الولاء، وبالتالي فحضور "محمد يتيم" كقيادي في الحزب وجماعة التوحيد الإصلاح يبين أنه داخل الحزب والجماعة ليس هناك موقف واحد حول حفل الولاء" يقول منار اسليمي في تصرح خاص لـ"هسبريس".



http://hespress.com/politique/60968.html

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ana ded dik tari9a dial tahia ( li galo houma machi roko3 .. hit khas nia ... ) , tahia te9dar tkoun b ayi tari9a hsen 100 merra men tehni tal jiht rejlik ...

w ana ded hta dak tari9a zayda 3la hed lwa9i3 w l manti9 li biha ki cherho l9anawat dialna w doyouf dialhoum had l hafl ( ka theshoum bhala ma ki dwiwch 3la bachar - أستغفر الله - )

brit gha nefham fo9ach had cha3b ghadi yefham ano l3ala9a li khesha tkoun bin lmoasasa l malakia w cha3b hia 3ala9at tawafou9 w tacharouk ( hada l asas dialha men 3ahd M5 ) machi 3alakat 3ouboudia kima ki briw ybayno b soulouk dialhoum ...
nhar yfehmo hadchi w yethamlo masoulia dialhoum y9ad tha9a9 chi matalib bkoul tawa3ia w basata ...

Un Criminel protégé par le Makhzen et les Fromages qui pue,se serait réfugié dans l'ambassade Marocaine a Londres afin d'échapper a son arrestation !

U4E63SAEnsw

Ma ka nebrich nezrab deghya f itla9 l ahkam walakin wakha hakek ka nel9a rassi ka netafa9 m3a ba3d ma ja fhad tahlil



http://hespress.com/politique/60968.html

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ana ded dik tari9a dial tahia ( li galo houma machi roko3 .. hit khas nia ... ) , tahia te9dar tkoun b ayi tari9a hsen 100 merra men tehni tal jiht rejlik ...

w ana ded hta dak tari9a zayda 3la hed lwa9i3 w l manti9 li biha ki cherho l9anawat dialna w doyouf dialhoum had l hafl ( ka theshoum bhala ma ki dwiwch 3la bachar - أستغفر الله - )

brit gha nefham fo9ach had cha3b ghadi yefham ano l3ala9a li khesha tkoun bin lmoasasa l malakia w cha3b hia 3ala9at tawafou9 w tacharouk ( hada l asas dialha men 3ahd M5 ) machi 3alakat 3ouboudia kima ki briw ybayno b soulouk dialhoum ...
nhar yfehmo hadchi w yethamlo masoulia dialhoum y9ad tha9a9 chi matalib bkoul tawa3ia w basata ...

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almoushkil houwa be3d lmarrat, M6 berassou kay jbed yaddih ou wakha ki houkkak, kaynin shi wou7din lli bghaw yetla7ou 3la yeddih...wa innama hada mounkar

wa kantssenaw nhar lli koun fih bayan malaki kay mne3 rki3 ou boussan lliddin :)

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