(sorry, duplicate post)

I know that to those on the East Coast, Chicago, and in Europe, this isn't a big deal, but here in the good ol' midwest it is news. H&M is opening its first store in Indianapolis at Circle Centre (downtown) in September of 2005.

I was in Chicago this weekend with friends and one of the stops was at H&M. I have a friend who has a pretty "respectable" job at Simon (of the malls) and she told us that H&M just signed a lease within the past few weeks to open in Indy. She has ALWAYS been correct on her "leaked" info. I was able to see the plans and elevations for the new Simon Headquarters well before it hit the local media as well as knowing about Saks well before it was announced.

All I can say is yippee! I know H&M is the "Old Navy" of Europe, but their clothes are soooo much more fashionable.

I just hope it gets a good storefront or something. I would like to see more on the street and less tucked into the mall.

H&M. Oooh-la-la. Very chic, very modern, veeerrry......European.

http://www.hm.com/us/start/start/index.jsp

Actually, I hear that their American stores are toned down and much more plain than their European stores. But they still beat the hell out of Old Navy.

My first thought was that Indianapolis always gets all the new, popular things, but the way that H&M is expanding, I wouldn't be surprised if they make an announcement about ten or fifteen midwest stores all at once. So we'll probably get one here in Columbus. Happy, happy, joy, joy. Another drive to the suburbs. :|

My first experience at H&M was in Europe and I remember thinking how cool it was. As for being "toned-down," the only American store I hav visited was the one in Chicago and it actually seems better than the ones I have visited in Europe.

H&M rocks. Im glad to hear this.

I've heard rumblings that Milwaukee is getting one soon, though nobody actually knows where. I'm guessing Mayfair mall.

This is good news for the Midwest! We're all gonna be more fashnabull!

LOL...I reckon Cincinnati will get one too.

My guess would have been for them to open in LA and Miami first, but I guess after Chicago, they're just growing from the East Coast westward. (Though they are building one in SF for next year.)

Actually, I don't really think H&M is a store that would would be in a mall. Would it?

All of the ones in Europe I have been to are not in malls...but there are far fewer malls in Europe than North America. Again, a friend as a very respectable position with Simon and has an inside "knowledge." The Sam Goody in Circle Centre will not be there once their lease expires and H&M have signed to go there.

Also, Create & Barrell is going to open at the Fashion Mall where Friday's used to be. They have already torn down the old Friday's and will be starting construction soon.

Wow, well then thanks for the information. :)

The Sam Goody in Circle Centre will not be there once their lease expires


do you know why they are leaving? hopefully another music retailer will come to downtown.

I've heard rumblings that Milwaukee is getting one soon, though nobody actually knows where. I'm guessing Mayfair mall.

This is good news for the Midwest! We're all gonna be more fashnabull!

I've heard the same. I remember them saying something about how it would be in soon after the Cheesecake Factory was done, and it is...so I'm hoping it wasn't just a rumor.

do you know why they (Sam Goody) are leaving?

Probably because they couldn't find enough idiots willing to pay $24 for a CD that they could buy absolutely anywhere else for $12.99 or less.

My favorite part of Sam Goody is their DVD bargain bin where they have obscure DVD's that nobody wants "on deep discount sale" for $17.99. Yes these are the same movies that other places have in their bargain bins selling for 5 to 10 dollars.

Hey, I did buy the "It's Pat" DVD at Sam Goodies a few days ago for $9 bucks. Their DVDs aren't that bad, but their CDs suck.

OK, my friend at Simon has forwarded an email to me regarding the progress of H & M at Circle Centre. It is looking like a June 1, 2005 move-in date is set for H & M:

Project: Circle Centre Mall Primary Leasing Agent: < removed name>
Project ID: 0564 Leasing Agent Title: Assistant Vice President
Location: Indianapolis, IN Secondary Leasing Agent: None
Division: Div V Deal Type: 2 - $ Amendment
Region: Southeast


General Comments: THIS IS A RUSH.

<person's name I removed>, PLEASE E-MAIL THE DOCS.


CAN WE USE SHORT FORM LEASE ??

THIS DEAL IS VERY IMPORTANT TO CIRCLE CENTRE MALL,
AND THE SOLIDIFICATION OF THE H & M DEAL.

This is a 120 day amendment which effectively
changes the expiration date in their existing
space, and RELOCATES
them to the abandoned Wilson's location.

This get's them out of their space before H&M needs
it on 6/1.

This is a 12% gross deal, plus utilities.

Their current minimum rental obligation is about
XXX They are projected to do about $2.5 million
in their existing space.
IF they continue to do that, they will pay about
XXX as the 12 % of sales.

REMEMBER, THE KEY HERE IS TO GET THEM OUT OF THEIR
EXISTING SPACE WHILE WE CONTINUE TO NEGOTIATE
THEIR NEW USE CLAUSE AND LEASE
FORM......................AND NOT HOLD UP H&M.

There is currently a lease OFS that will relocate
Sam Goody PERMANENTLY to G04a; and the opening of
that store to cancel THIS amendment.

Congrats Indy! I would LOVE to see one in MPLS.

Expect to see H&M in every city from Kokomo, Indiana to Medford, Oregon withen 2 years.

They're building an H&M in Fort Wayne for the love of God. (Open before the Indy store even) It won't be long before every city in America is sporting three of this place.

WHAT???? Ft. Wayne?

How do you know this?

haha, I don't have any cool connections or anything, but I went to the mall in Fort Wayne and its plastered all over the walls..."H&M opening in Spring 05"

It's already u/c and almost finished.

WOW! I had no idea...does anyone know of other locations outside of Chicago that is getting one? I really thought that Indy was the first outside of Chicago...Ft. Wayne, who knew??

Does South Bend/Mishawaka get one too?:D

Is your friend trying to get fired. Anyway since I don't shop there what do you guys feel when you go there. Also, do they hire bunnies or nunnies?

I took a look at the website and the style is similar to a fashion show I was at 2 days ago at DAAP in Uptown Cincinnati.

When I first learned of H&M I was told how they came the U.S. early just because there was a prime location open on 5th ave in New York. Their idea was to be with all the high fashion stores. Which, without looking at their price tags, fit like a glove in the eye of the consumer. That location was deliberately was not in a mall, and even their chicago location was chosen for its spot on the mag mile.

When did they become European Old navy and begin moving into every other mall in America? Do you not think that it loses some exclusivity? Seems like a major departure of their original marketing strategy in my mind. Or does the store carry the image by itself, even if in a mall?

But... either way I'd love to have one in Milwaukee... any putting down of H&M moving into your city is pure jealousy! :)

It's not nationwide, it's only in Chicagoland and the northeast right nowm though they are opening in Indianapolis and California. It's never been that exclusive either, they are the Gaps of Europe, with them in every city.

It's not nationwide, it's only in Chicagoland and the northeast right nowm though they are opening in Indianapolis and California. It's never been that exclusive either, they are the Gaps of Europe, with them in every city.


YES, they are EVERYWHERE in Europe. The first time I went to one was in Leiden, the Netherlands. I fell in love instantly. The clothes are much more fashionable than at the Gap or Old Navy. I would say fashion-wise, much more similar to Banana Republic, but loads cheaper! Last year when I was in Amsterdam, I had to buy an extra suitcase to take all of the clothes home I bought from there.

I looked on Ft. Wayne's Glenbrook Mall website and there is NO MENTION of H&M opening there.

I saw yesterday that there is one going into Crocker Park in Cleveland so I guess they are working the midwest then they will probably leak into the southeast because all the Charlotte people were talking about one possibly going there.

Straight from their website...took me 2.5 seconds to find on Google "Fort Wayne H&M"


H & M was established in Sweden in 1947. Our company’s business concept is to offer fashion and quality at the best price. H&M has a wide product range that is divided into a number of different concepts for women, men, teenagers, children and cosmetics. The company’s clothing collections are created by its own designers, pattern designers and buyers. We now have over 1,000 stores in 20 countries employing over 40,000 people and we are opening a new store this Spring in Glenbrook Square - Fort Wayne, IN!

For further information on H&M concepts, history, job opportunities and much, much more please visit www.hm.com

I searched the exact same thing yesterday and nothing about H & M. Hmm. Great news. Indiana representin'

I think they're less preppy or conservative than Banana Republic, but it depends. The stuff they sell in London can be different from the stuff they sell in Syracuse. I see them more like Zara (if your city has one, you're lucky), Euro(cheap)chic.

I heard somewhere that one will be opening at the Mall of America. Not sure if this is just a rumour.

H&M is not a big deal. In some cities in Upstate (Rochester and Albany) they don't even sell men's clothing. In Syracuse's two stores they do sell men's clothing and their styles are OK, but I'd rather shop at J. Crew or Lord & Taylor for clothing.

BTW, every store sells very different things, like samsonyuen said. In the store at great northern mall in the northern suburbs of Syracuse, the H&M store sells much more men's clothing than the store near downtown Syracuse.

do you know why they are leaving? hopefully another music retailer will come to downtown.


The Sam Goodies is moving to the former Wilson's store

H&M to open store at Brookfield Square
Clothing retailer plans debut in September

By DORIS HAJEWSKI
dhajewski@journalsentinel.com
Posted: April 11, 2005

H&M, a hot Swedish fashion chain that made its U.S. debut five years ago, will open its first Wisconsin store at Brookfield Square in September.

H&M created a frenzy among young fashionistas when it opened its first U.S. store on Fifth Ave. in New York in 2000. Shoppers waited 20 minutes in line for fitting rooms to try on the latest looks in pants and skirts, priced $20 to $30. Tops are $12 to $20, and dresses can be had for $25.

H&M will be the first major retailer to make its market entry at Brookfield Square since Old Navy made its area debut there in 1998.

The new store will strengthen Brookfield Square's position against Mayfair Mall in Wauwatosa, which in recent years has been the location of choice for every hot retail debut in the area.

H&M talked to Mayfair's leasing executives a few years ago, but Mayfair didn't have sufficient available space to meet H&M's needs, said the mall's marketing director, Nancy Conley.

"It's a great addition to the Milwaukee market," Conley said.

The 57-year-old Hennes & Mauritz chain operates 1,069 stores in 21 countries, offering clothing for men, women and children, as well as cosmetics.

The 11,000-square-foot store in Brookfield will feature only women's and teen clothing, said Lisa Sandberg, director of communications for H&M in the United States.

The chain has 75 stores in the U.S., including in Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, Syracuse, N.Y., and New York. H&M will open at the Mall of America in November as part of its westward expansion in the U.S., and it may open more stores in the Milwaukee area later, Sandberg said.

The new store at Brookfield Square will occupy space that formerly housed Waldenbooks, the Milwaukee Public Museum shop and extend into a long vacant space that once was occupied by WorkBench furniture store, said Tera Greenland, marketing manager at Brookfield Square.

H&M will be one of several new additions to Brookfield Square. Barnes & Noble will open a new store on the east side of the mall Wednesday. The Barnes & Noble store across from the mall on Blue Mound Road will close Wednesday.

Also in the works are plans for three new stores in two freestanding buildings at the corner of W. Blue Mound and N. Moorland roads. The new tenants include Organized Living, a retail chain specializing in storage products, and two restaurants: Abuelo's Mexican Food Embassy and Fleming's Steak House.

The mall hopes to start construction on the new buildings by this summer, Greenland said.

That article seemed to have a hint of advertisement...

Haha... it's from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. But true, it does seem a bit "flashy", when I re-read it...

A hot Sweedish fashion chain!!!!!11

Resurrecting an OLD thread. I don't get to the mall very often. Is this place doing O.K.? Did I see somewhere that Old Navy at Claypool closed?

H&M has had 3 stores in metro St. Louis for a long time already.

there building an H&M at castleton square and there is one in Ft Wayne to

4 in Cleveland, though I don't see the need for stores that sell clothes made of construction paper:ohno:

yay, haha.
I dont know if its new or not, either way, yaaay haha

Resurrecting an OLD thread. I don't get to the mall very often. Is this place doing O.K.? Did I see somewhere that Old Navy at Claypool closed?

Isn't the Weber Grill in the Old Navy spot?

yup atleast part of it i originally thought it would be all of it but someone said on here its only part of the old old navy

It would be nice if Cincy would finally get an H&M. At least we are finally getting a Nordstrom's and Crate and Barrel in 2009. I am amazed how Cincy seems to be the last major metro areas in the midwest to get most national retail stores. I have never quiet figured out what the demographic info is saying to retailers that make them look at Cincy last.

It would be nice if Cincy would finally get an H&M. At least we are finally getting a Nordstrom's and Crate and Barrel in 2009. I am amazed how Cincy seems to be the last major metro areas in the midwest to get most national retail stores. I have never quiet figured out what the demographic info is saying to retailers that make them look at Cincy last.

KC doesn't have an H&M either, although one was supposed to open in KCK this past year. They backed out though. I wouldn't be surprised to see one open up in the P&L, the Plaza, or in south JOCO somewhere.

St. Louis has 3 of them and they all suck. A bunch of cheap crap that you can wear once and then it falls apart. I'll never know what all the excitement is about.

Now let's all say this together....."Whooooo Cares!"

Now let's all say this together....."Whooooo Cares!"

Actually more companies and people than you might think. While people and companies look at many things when they decide to relocate or expanded, one thing many companies look at is the trend factor (part of the quality of life) for a community. They know they have to attract certain types of people to their company and the demographic profiles tell them that having to have certain types of retail in the area to meet that profile. So it can affect, to some degree, decisions if a community has or doesn't have a certain level of retail and dining. Nordstroms, Hard Rock, H&M, IKEA, Crate and Barrel, Saks, etc... You personally may not care, but if your community is being overlooked for certain types of jobs for this reason and/or other, you probably should care.

Actually more companies and people than you might think. While people and companies look at many things when they decide to relocate or expanded, one thing many companies look at is the trend factor (part of the quality of life) for a community. They know they have to attract certain types of people to their company and the demographic profiles tell them that having to have certain types of retail in the area to meet that profile. So it can affect, to some degree, decisions if a community has or doesn't have a certain level of retail and dining. Nordstroms, Hard Rock, H&M, IKEA, Crate and Barrel, Saks, etc... You personally may not care, but if your community is being overlooked for certain types of jobs for this reason and/or other, you probably should care.

Great statement! Milwaukee in particular was extremely overlooked until recently. Basically, once one retail store moved in, a whole bunch followed. The best part is, most are seeing great success, encouraging them to expand outside of their single store to many more. Take Cheesecake Factory, for example. It was noted that Chessecake Factory had a certain level for Milwaukee, only allowing the company to open 1 restaurant in the metro. However, due to its extreme success, they opened another, and will probably open a third.

It would be nice if Cincy would finally get an H&M. At least we are finally getting a Nordstrom's and Crate and Barrel in 2009. I am amazed how Cincy seems to be the last major metro areas in the midwest to get most national retail stores. I have never quiet figured out what the demographic info is saying to retailers that make them look at Cincy last.

does Cincy really have a upscale mall, like the fashion mall in Indy?

does Cincy really have a upscale mall, like the fashion mall in Indy?

Kind of. They have Kenwood which is anchored by Macy's and Dillards. It's also home to Cincy's only Cheesecake Factory and Maggiano's. The only high end department store in the Cincy market right now is Saks, which is downtown. Kenwood will in 2009 have the areas first Nordstrom's, Crate and Barrel and the Container Store. Like I said earlier, there must be something in the demographic profile info that makes these types of stores and restaurants make Cincy about the last major metro area in the midwest to expanded in.

With that said, Circle Center and the Fashion Mall definitely create a higher end retail market than Cincy has (I sure some Cincy fans won't like that comment). I know several people that actually drive to Indy or Columbus from Cincy now because they want these type of stores.

It would be nice if Cincy would finally get an H&M. At least we are finally getting a Nordstrom's and Crate and Barrel in 2009. I am amazed how Cincy seems to be the last major metro areas in the midwest to get most national retail stores. I have never quiet figured out what the demographic info is saying to retailers that make them look at Cincy last.


Cincy has some relatively exclusive retail that Indy doesn't have: Urban Outfitters and American Apparel.

Also, both cities have a Tiffany's, Saks, so I'd say they're fairly comparable. If either Indy or Cincy gets a Neiman Marcus and Ikea before the other, then maybe it will be a little different.

Also, why doesn't Cincy have a Hard Rock Cafe?

Cincy has some relatively exclusive retail that Indy doesn't have: Urban Outfitters and American Apparel.

Also, both cities have a Tiffany's, Saks, so I'd say they're fairly comparable. If either Indy or Cincy gets a Neiman Marcus and Ikea before the other, then maybe it will be a little different.

Also, why doesn't Cincy have a Hard Rock Cafe?


Cincy is getting an IKEA...the first in the region and Indy is getting an Urban Outfitters and an American Apparel, both at the Fashion Mall. Bloomington has the closests Urban Ouotfitters right now.


No offense to Cincy, but the Saks store that is downtown is an embarassment. It is SO TINY and nicer things can be found at Von Maur

Cincy has some relatively exclusive retail that Indy doesn't have: Urban Outfitters and American Apparel.

Also, both cities have a Tiffany's, Saks, so I'd say they're fairly comparable. If either Indy or Cincy gets a Neiman Marcus and Ikea before the other, then maybe it will be a little different.

Also, why doesn't Cincy have a Hard Rock Cafe?

Not to really start a new war.

Higher end Departments Stores:

Cincy - Saks

Indy - Saks, Nordstroms, 2 Von Maurs

I am not sure you could call this 'farly comparable'. Cincy is getting IKEA. But, most IKEA are not designed for a local market but to be centrally located for several markets. This really helped Cincy get IKEA, it was about location, not a local market decision per say.

I think Cincy will get a Hard Rock once they build the Banks downtown.

With that said, once Cincy gets IKEA, and a Nordstroms and Crate and Barrel (2009) I think its retail environment will definitely improve.

It's sad Milwaukee doesn't have higher end stores like Saks, Bloomingdales, etc.

Von Maur is interested in Milwaukee - and with them they'll probably become the top of the higher end stores in the area.

I just read that HRC might be up for sale in the coming months, so new HRCs probably won't be happening anytime soon.

.

With that said, once Cincy gets IKEA, and a Nordstroms and Crate and Barrel (2009) I think its retail environment will definitely improve.


more like boom. ;)

It's interesting to me how much we all keep up with "what we are getting" - like the presences of these (inter)national retailers is a meaningful measure of a city. I'm not saying it isn't, but for me local shops and boutiques are much more interesting than chains. For example, whenever I'm in Bloomington, I hit Sahara Mart on the near southside - it is one of the best grocery stores I have ever been too. Local clothing and merchandise stores are harder to come by these days. I guess it's just a little bit depressing to see a cities' worth valued by the presence of franchises and chain stores.

It's sad Milwaukee doesn't have higher end stores like Saks, Bloomingdales, etc.

Von Maur is interested in Milwaukee - and with them they'll probably become the top of the higher end stores in the area.

I just read that HRC might be up for sale in the coming months, so new HRCs probably won't be happening anytime soon.

wow even Ft Wayne has a Von Maur and there headquarters is in iowa so im surprised you dont have one

wow even Ft Wayne has a Von Maur and there headquarters is in iowa so im surprised you dont have one

Von Maur is SOOOOOO last year!:old:

Von Maur is SOOOOOO last year!:old:

Which kind of makes my point. It seems that all the major metro areas in the midwest get most of these store before Cincy does, and by the time we get them everyone has moved on to something else.

Which kind of makes my point. It seems that all the major metro areas in the midwest get most of these store before Cincy does, and by the time we get them everyone has moved on to something else.

Oh, I was just trying to be funny. I actually have no idea what Von Maur is.

Edit: I just checked. Apparently Wichita has one but not the KC area.

Not to really start a new war.

Higher end Departments Stores:

Cincy - Saks

Indy - Saks, Nordstroms, 2 Von Maurs

I am not sure you could call this 'farly comparable'. Cincy is getting IKEA. But, most IKEA are not designed for a local market but to be centrally located for several markets. This really helped Cincy get IKEA, it was about location, not a local market decision per say.

I think Cincy will get a Hard Rock once they build the Banks downtown.

With that said, once Cincy gets IKEA, and a Nordstroms and Crate and Barrel (2009) I think its retail environment will definitely improve.

Well if you want to make Indy look good, by 2008, we'll actually have 2 Nordstroms. :lol:

When does Cincy get an Ikea? That's good news for Cincy! Probably means Indy won't get one for a long time now.

Well if you want to make Indy look good, by 2008, we'll actually have 2 Nordstroms. :lol:

When does Cincy get an Ikea? That's good news for Cincy! Probably means Indy won't get one for a long time now.

Opening is set for spring '08. It located on I-75 in West Chester. Indy will probably not see its own IKEA until they do another round of market saturation in the future.

I would say that the main reason for retailers shying away from Cincinnati is the fact that Cincinnatians are extremely hesitant to support any outside (outside of Cincinnati) company. New ventures do succeed, don't get me wrong. But Wal-Mart's latest push in the Cincinnati market failed, as well as other phone carriers and what not.

In Cincinnati old habits don't die easy...and much of the time, locals will support those companies that they are familiar with 'til the end. It doesn't matter if it may cost more or have worse service. On top of all this Macy's (formerly known as Federated) has had it's World HQ in Cincinnati for some time...I don't see them helping the process of a Nordstrom or Van Maur opening up.

Another key item is the German heritage of Cincinnati. It is arguably the most German influenced city in the U.S. and you can still see it's effects today by the neighborhood butchers, bakeries, ice cream shops and many other neighborhood retailers. The big destination malls aren't as big in Cincy as they are elsewhere in the country (Indy for example).

There are many things that lead to this kind of thing, but I don't find it symbolic of negative undertones for the region...nor do I find it overall detrimental. If it does hurt Cincy then so be it; something that makes Cincy soo special and unique is that German influence that is still so very prominent in the region. I'll take that over a Nordstrom or Van Maur anyday.

I would say that the main reason for retailers shying away from Cincinnati is the fact that Cincinnatians are extremely hesitant to support any outside (outside of Cincinnati) company. New ventures do succeed, don't get me wrong. But Wal-Mart's latest push in the Cincinnati market failed, as well as other phone carriers and what not.

In Cincinnati old habits don't die easy...and much of the time, locals will support those companies that they are familiar with 'til the end. It doesn't matter if it may cost more or have worse service. On top of all this Macy's (formerly known as Federated) has had it's World HQ in Cincinnati for some time...I don't see them helping the process of a Nordstrom or Van Maur opening up.

Another key item is the German heritage of Cincinnati. It is arguably the most German influenced city in the U.S. and you can still see it's effects today by the neighborhood butchers, bakeries, ice cream shops and many other neighborhood retailers. The big destination malls aren't as big in Cincy as they are elsewhere in the country (Indy for example).

There are many things that lead to this kind of thing, but I don't find it symbolic of negative undertones for the region...nor do I find it overall detrimental. If it does hurt Cincy then so be it; something that makes Cincy soo special and unique is that German influence that is still so very prominent in the region. I'll take that over a Nordstrom or Van Maur anyday.

I dont know if this has anything to do with this.
But when I was in cincy with my sister, we stopped at this little restruant on the edge of OTR. And there were to old people who owned the busnise speaking to eachother in german.
I thought it was the coolest thing ever. :)

I would say that the main reason for retailers shying away from Cincinnati is the fact that Cincinnatians are extremely hesitant to support any outside (outside of Cincinnati) company. New ventures do succeed, don't get me wrong. But Wal-Mart's latest push in the Cincinnati market failed, as well as other phone carriers and what not.

In Cincinnati old habits don't die easy...and much of the time, locals will support those companies that they are familiar with 'til the end. It doesn't matter if it may cost more or have worse service. On top of all this Macy's (formerly known as Federated) has had it's World HQ in Cincinnati for some time...I don't see them helping the process of a Nordstrom or Van Maur opening up.

Another key item is the German heritage of Cincinnati. It is arguably the most German influenced city in the U.S. and you can still see it's effects today by the neighborhood butchers, bakeries, ice cream shops and many other neighborhood retailers. The big destination malls aren't as big in Cincy as they are elsewhere in the country (Indy for example).

There are many things that lead to this kind of thing, but I don't find it symbolic of negative undertones for the region...nor do I find it overall detrimental. If it does hurt Cincy then so be it; something that makes Cincy soo special and unique is that German influence that is still so very prominent in the region. I'll take that over a Nordstrom or Van Maur anyday.

There actually is truth in that. For example, numerous chains that were once in Cincinnati closed due to low-crowds (recently, Bahama Breeze and Copeland's). It clearly wasn't that Cincinnatians don't go out and eat (it probably is the most "going out to dinner" city in the state) but generally support restaurants that are more local or more locally familiar with it (re: Montgomery Inn, Graeter's, LaRosa's, etc).

Columbus is quite the opposite as it embraces anything it gets (thus, the whole "Test Market USA" monikor).

Von Maur wants to be in Cincinnati and Cleveland. Neiman Marcus is "looking" at Cleveland.

In 20 years I wonder if there will be any local venues left or will we be inundated with Target and Applebees?

Which kind of makes my point. It seems that all the major metro areas in the midwest get most of these store before Cincy does, and by the time we get them everyone has moved on to something else.

I don't know if Von Maur is a fair comparison as Von Maur isn't in most of the country yet not just Cincinnati.

In 20 years I wonder if there will be any local venues left or will we be inundated with Target and Applebees?

Isn't this already the case? How many Midwest cities even have locally owned department stores anymore - just Dayton (Elder-Beerman)?

I don't know if Von Maur is a fair comparison as Von Maur isn't in most of the country yet not just Cincinnati.

You are correct that they are not in every major midwest city, but they are in Chicago, Minneapolis, Louisville, Columbus, Detroit, Indy and soon to be in Dayton.

^Dayton...or as the 2010 Census will put it "Cincinnati-Dayton MSA"


:dance:

Isn't this already the case? How many Midwest cities even have locally owned department stores anymore - just Dayton (Elder-Beerman)?

Elder-Beerman is now a part of Bon Ton's network of department stores, headquartered in Milwaukee.

There actually is truth in that. For example, numerous chains that were once in Cincinnati closed due to low-crowds (recently, Bahama Breeze and Copeland's). It clearly wasn't that Cincinnatians don't go out and eat (it probably is the most "going out to dinner" city in the state) but generally support restaurants that are more local or more locally familiar with it (re: Montgomery Inn, Graeter's, LaRosa's, etc).

Columbus is quite the opposite as it embraces anything it gets (thus, the whole "Test Market USA" monikor).

Maybe retailers are following Mark Twain: "When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Cincinnati because it's always twenty years behind the times." They have decided that Cincy doesn't embrace new concepts very quickly so they wait to come to Cincy until the surrounding metros have embraced the product, which gives Cincy time to warm up to the concept.

Maybe retailers are following Mark Twain: "When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Cincinnati because it's always twenty years behind the times."

I hate this quote, and the reason is that it has never been authenticated. No one is sure who even came up with that line (if anyone at all), yet it has taken on a life of its own. It's pretty popular among people like you who would like to slam the city.

EDIT: Also, to correct some misinformation, Von Maur is VERY interested in putting a store in Rivers Crossing in South Lebanon.

Maybe retailers are following Mark Twain: "When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Cincinnati because it's always twenty years behind the times."

I hate this quote, and the reason is that it has never been authenticated. No one is sure who even came up with that line (if anyone at all), yet it has taken on a life of its own. It's pretty popular among people like you who would like to slam the city.

EDIT: Also, to correct some misinformation, Von Maur is VERY interested in putting a store in Rivers Crossing in South Lebanon.

I think you missed the point of the conversation. Cincy seems to be one of the last major metro areas in the midwest to receive certain types of commercial developments. Yes, Von Maur is showing some interest in Rivers Crossing (but still no signed deal or construction), but they have already opened stores in most of the main midwest markets. So has Nordstroms, Crate and Barrel, H&M, Hard Rock, etc... Cincy was even on of the last, if not the last, major metro area to get a Cheesecake Factory. UncleRando may be right on why this is happening. I still say it affects the image of the community to some degree and its willingness to accept new concepts.

On a side note: Why do you think these comments slam the city? Is the information that I gave incorrect? Does Cincy currently have Von Maur, Nordstroms, Crate and Barrel, H&M, Hard Rock etc... When did Cincy gets its Cheesecake Factory compared to most other major midwest markets? How many midwest markets already have all or most of these stores and have had most of these stores for some time now? I am sorry you don't like the discussion and the reality of the info, but it doesn't change the facts. I would be more than happy to hear your opinion of why Cincy has not received many of these types of establishments at the same time as many others cities.

Elder-Beerman is now a part of Bon Ton's network of department stores, headquartered in Milwaukee.

Not quite. Bon-Ton's Milwaukee offices only house the marketing, buying, and product development departments--it's a branch office. The actual headquarters for Bon-Ton is in York, Pennsylvania.

Cincy was even on of the last, if not the last, major metro area to get a Cheesecake Factory.

Just to clarify, Detroit and New Orleans currently do not have a Cheesecake Factory (though the CCF originally started in Detroit).

Cincy was even on of the last, if not the last, major metro area to get a Cheesecake Factory.

You say that as if it were a bad thing.

I think you missed the point of the conversation. Cincy seems to be one of the last major metro areas in the midwest to receive certain types of commercial developments. Yes, Von Maur is showing some interest in Rivers Crossing (but still no signed deal or construction), but they have already opened stores in most of the main midwest markets. So has Nordstroms, Crate and Barrel, H&M, Hard Rock, etc... Cincy was even on of the last, if not the last, major metro area to get a Cheesecake Factory. UncleRando may be right on why this is happening. I still say it affects the image of the community to some degree and its willingness to accept new concepts.

On a side note: Why do you think these comments slam the city? Is the information that I gave incorrect? Does Cincy currently have Von Maur, Nordstroms, Crate and Barrel, H&M, Hard Rock etc... When did Cincy gets its Cheesecake Factory compared to most other major midwest markets? How many midwest markets already have all or most of these stores and have had most of these stores for some time now? I am sorry you don't like the discussion and the reality of the info, but it doesn't change the facts. I would be more than happy to hear your opinion of why Cincy has not received many of these types of establishments at the same time as many others cities.

I think its your tone, which is coming off as "Cincinnati is lame and the fact that it doesn't have Nordstrom..blah..blah..blah etc, etc, makes it true."

I would say Milwaukee probably ranks next to Cincinnati when it comes to getting retail and dining options. However, Milwaukee has literally exploded since 2000 with new retail and dining options.

Since 2000, Milwaukee has landed....

Aeropostale, abercrombie, Coldwater Creek, J Jill, Crate & Barrel, Maggianos, Cheesecake Factory, California Pizza Kitchen, Apple store, Bar Louie, The Capital Grille, Devon's Seafood Grill, Bonefish Grill, Texas Roadhouse, Bravo!, Anthropologie, Urban Outfitters, Potterybarn Kids, Steve & Barry's, Club Libby Lu, LA Fitness, H&M, bebe, Limited Too, etc, etc, etc.

The only department stores that are interested in Milwaukee is Von Maur and Macy's, who notes Milwaukee as a place they want to expand on. Nordstrom won't even look at us.

I would say Milwaukee probably ranks next to Cincinnati when it comes to getting retail and dining options. However, Milwaukee has literally exploded since 2000 with new retail and dining options.

Since 2000, Milwaukee has landed....

Aeropostale, abercrombie, Coldwater Creek, J Jill, Crate & Barrel, Maggianos, Cheesecake Factory, California Pizza Kitchen, Apple store, Bar Louie, The Capital Grille, Devon's Seafood Grill, Bonefish Grill, Texas Roadhouse, Bravo!, Anthropologie, Urban Outfitters, Potterybarn Kids, Steve & Barry's, Club Libby Lu, LA Fitness, H&M, bebe, Limited Too, etc, etc, etc.

The only department stores that are interested in Milwaukee is Von Maur and Macy's, who notes Milwaukee as a place they want to expand on. Nordstrom won't even look at us.

Maybe because of the presence of Chicagoland and its like 50 Nordstroms. Milwaukee has no Macy's?

Maybe because of the presence of Chicagoland and its like 50 Nordstroms. Milwaukee has no Macy's?

Macy's has one location in suburban Wauwatosa - Mayfair Mall. However, Macy's and Von Maur have been considered extremely likely tenants for Pabst Farms, a shopping center in extreme suburban Oconomowoc (about 30 mins from downtown Milwaukee).

I think Chicagoland has its ups and downs for us - both being its influence. Some say a big reason of retail/dining moving into Milwaukee is Chicagoland. Some say a big reason of retail/dining not moving into Milwaukee is Chicagoland.

I guess we have the best of both worlds? I don't know. While I'd like a Nordstrom or Bloomingdale's in Milwaukee, at least I know I can just drive an hour to suburban Chicago and get those stores.

I also forgot to mention that Milwaukee will be getting the privilege of landing plenty of Wal-Mart Supercenters and SuperTargets - every new Wal-Mart in the area is a Supercenter. Target wants 2 SuperTargets in the suburbs as well. Do I credit Chicagoland? No. Milwaukee's population probably grew to the point of attracting the attention.

Another note I forgot to mention was I was chatting with the Bloomingdale's - Old Orchard manager and apparently Bloomingdale's considers Milwaukee and Scottsdale, AZ as markets to possibly expand upon.

Elder-Beerman is now a part of Bon Ton's network of department stores, headquartered in Milwaukee.

Whatever the headquarters has slinked off to, looks like it isn't Dayton anymore. Do any Midwest cities have "hometown" department (ex: Targety) stores any more, or have they all been disemboweled from their original host?

Whatever the headquarters has slinked off to, looks like it isn't Dayton anymore. Do any Midwest cities have "hometown" department (ex: Targety) stores any more, or have they all been disemboweled from their original host?

Well, I guess Milwaukee comes to mind again. Thanks in part to Saks and later Bon Ton keeping the Northern Stores Group headquartered in Milwaukee, Milwaukee can say Boston Store is its hometown department store. Boston Store is only in Wisconsin, but shares its symbol with the other brands of the Northern Group: Younkers, Bergner's, Carson Pirie Scott, Herberger's, and Elder-Beerman.

Before Macy's killed Marshal Fields, was it a Chicago/Milwaukee thing or did it have a larger influence?

They have decided that Cincy doesn't embrace new concepts very quickly so they wait to come to Cincy until the surrounding metros have embraced the product, which gives Cincy time to warm up to the concept.

Well, well, well ...

Let's see ...

Cincinnati:

Saks- Opened 03/24/1984

Tiffany's- Opened in 1997

IKEA- Under construction

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1361/850636051_37e91851fe.jpg?v=0

Indy:

Saks- Opened 09/10/2003 (LOL, 19 freakin years after the Cincinnati location!)

Tiffany's- Opened in June of 2006 (LOL, 9 years after Cincinnati's opened!)

IKEA- With Cincinnati's location (being that Cincy and Indy are about an hour of each other), I do not see this happening soon ...


By the way, you may or may not have noticed this building ...

http://www.pbase.com/ballhatguy/image/81329060.jpg


By the way, our Saks and Tiffany's are in the CBD, unlike your suburban locations. Also, both locations in Cincy are doing well -see Cincinnati Business Courier.

FYI: I think this is the stupidest debate to ever take place on an urban website. I just felt the need to throw my 2 cents out there ...

I will also say this ...

... because I am not completely naive to this discussion:

But downtown Indy's retail scene is one of the best in the Midwest and is certainly better than Cincy's.

It's just that Indy's "retail specialty stores" scene is fairly new.

To give you a better idea, most of the stores that were mentioned by Ragerunner are at this location north of the city ... this is an urban discussion board right?

I mean I'm all for specialty stores, I would just rather have them just a tad bit closer to the city center, you feelin' me?

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3144/indyjj0.jpg

Before Macy's killed Marshal Fields, was it a Chicago/Milwaukee thing or did it have a larger influence?

Marshall Field's had a huge influence. It originally was a Milwaukee/Chicago store, but if anything edsg25 should be discussing Marshall Field's.

I think any Midwestern city's downtown area would trump Milwaukee's at this point. However, our Third Ward district will be putting up a strong competition in the near future.

I thought Marshall Fields was a relative newcomer to Milwaukee. Didn't they not come into Milwaukee until the 1980's after Gimbels went out of business?

I think its your tone, which is coming off as "Cincinnati is lame and the fact that it doesn't have Nordstrom..blah..blah..blah etc, etc, makes it true."

Thank you. And I would add that this isn't the first thread in which ragerunner comes off this way.

Why does every Indy thread seem to become a "versus" thread, anyway? These are the types of threads that keep me away from SSC.

I thought Marshall Fields was a relative newcomer to Milwaukee. Didn't they not come into Milwaukee until the 1980's after Gimbels went out of business?

No, Milwaukee had a Marshall Fields in the 1950's when Mayfair Mall was built. It was one of the first Field's outside Chicagoland, if not the first.

Well, I guess Milwaukee comes to mind again. Thanks in part to Saks and later Bon Ton keeping the Northern Stores Group headquartered in Milwaukee, Milwaukee can say Boston Store is its hometown department store. Boston Store is only in Wisconsin, but shares its symbol with the other brands of the Northern Group: Younkers, Bergner's, Carson Pirie Scott, Herberger's, and Elder-Beerman.

Don't forget Kohl's...

Nordstrom won't even look at us.

Not true. They are looking at Pabst Farms.

Not true. They are looking at Pabst Farms.

Who said? I remember Doris Hajewski of the Journal Sentinel calling Nordstrom offices only to get a "We're not particularly interested in the Milwaukee area at this point"

Also, from Doris's blog:



Sad Sears (http://blogs.jsonline.com/shoptalk/archive/2007/07/11/Sad-Sears.aspx)

By Doris Hajewski

Wednesday, Jul 11 2007, 03:44 PM


It's been a tough month for Sears.

First the New York time publishes a story (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/04/business/04sears.html?ex=1341201600&en=260ad8a67bbb17f7&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) that discusses how a lot of mall operators around the country would be happy to get rid of their Sears stores.

Then this week, Sears announces that same-store sales declined in the second quarter at both its Sears and Kmart stores, and that it will miss Wall Street's profit expectations. The stock dropped by about 10% when the news hit Tuesday.

Both chains have been in trouble for years, and retail watchers like to point out that it doesn't help that they are run by a guy who is known for his expertise in finance and real estate, not retailing. This week, chairman Eddie Lampert acknowledged that the stores need to improve to become "more relevant" to consumers, while noting that Sears, like other retailers, is suffering from the impact of the housing market bust.

Locally, we see an example of what the New York Times talked about at Bayshore Town Center. In contrast to the rest the shiny new center, the Sears wing looks like it's part of an old class B mall that's struggling to fill space. There are a few empty storefronts and temporary tenants on the wing, which is usually a signal that a mall is having trouble renting space. In some cases, it also might mean that a mall is keeping space open for a large new tenant.

Bayshore manager Bud Schneider says he has a deal in the works with a moderate-price apparel retailer some of the space in that wing.

Meanwhile, Bayshore's owner has made no secret of the fact that he'd like to get rid of the Sears store and replace it with an upscale tenant. North Shore residents are hoping that will happen and that they will someday see a Nordstrom store where the Sears now stands. But don't hold your breath, because Sears has a long lease on that store.

Across town, at Brookfield Square, Sears has upgraded its Lands' End offering with a store-within-a-store. All of the Lands' End products, for men, women and kids, are now displayed in one area, near the entrance to the mall on the north end of the store.

Brookfield Square's owners are much less forthcoming about this, but that mall's best chance for a new upscale department store would also be the exit of Sears.

Don't forget Kohl's...

Oops....forgot about them! They don't have a flagship store, however.

I will also say this ...

... because I am not completely naive to this discussion:

But downtown Indy's retail scene is one of the best in the Midwest and is certainly better than Cincy's.

It's just that Indy's "retail specialty stores" scene is fairly new.

To give you a better idea, most of the stores that were mentioned by Ragerunner are at this location north of the city ... this is an urban discussion board right?

I mean I'm all for specialty stores, I would just rather have them just a tad bit closer to the city center, you feelin' me?

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3144/indyjj0.jpg

here we go again with another bitchfit.
cant anyone be positive on this forum????:ohno:

whats with your siggy?

here we go again with another bitchfit.
cant anyone be positive on this forum????:ohno:

whats with your siggy?

Hey all of us are extremely positive!! See: :)

I think you guys in Indy and Cincy need to settle your differences out in the SSC parking lot....

Hey all of us are extremely positive!! See: :)

I think you guys in Indy and Cincy need to settle your differences out in the SSC parking lot....

WE HAVE A PARKING LOT?
Damn this place has class.:)

Well, well, well ...

Let's see ...

Cincinnati:

Saks- Opened 03/24/1984

Tiffany's- Opened in 1997

IKEA- Under construction

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1361/850636051_37e91851fe.jpg?v=0

Indy:

Saks- Opened 09/10/2003 (LOL, 19 freakin years after the Cincinnati location!)

Tiffany's- Opened in June of 2006 (LOL, 9 years after Cincinnati's opened!)

IKEA- With Cincinnati's location (being that Cincy and Indy are about an hour of each other), I do not see this happening soon ...


By the way, you may or may not have noticed this building ...

http://www.pbase.com/ballhatguy/image/81329060.jpg


By the way, our Saks and Tiffany's are in the CBD, unlike your suburban locations. Also, both locations in Cincy are doing well -see Cincinnati Business Courier.

FYI: I think this is the stupidest debate to ever take place on an urban website. I just felt the need to throw my 2 cents out there ...

First, if you are trying to say that downtown Cincy's retail environment is as good as Indy's, that a joke. Also, most of the stores I listed are in downtown Indy.

As far as Saks and Tiffany's. The Saks and Tiffany's both in Cincy is doing so well that they close at 6:00 ever day except one and the Macy's just recently reduced their store foot print because sales are slow. Sound like a strong retail environment to me.

I'm sorry you don't like that I have have brought up the concept that Cincy is starting to fall behind many of its peers when it comes to, economic development, planning, downtown development, retail, and population. So if that makes some of the Cincy posters think I am down on Cincy, so be it (I am not, and have many post that have positive comments on Cincy).

But it doesn't change that many of my comments have facts, data and info behind them and that I have challenged some of your personal opinions with them.

First, if you are trying to say that downtown Cincy's retail environment is as good as Indy's, that a joke. Also, most of the stores I listed are in downtown Indy.

As far as Saks and Tiffany's. The Saks and Tiffany's both in Cincy is doing so well that they close at 6:00 ever day except one and the Macy's just recently reduced their store foot print because sales are slow. Sound like a strong retail environment to me.

I'm sorry you don't like that I have have brought up the concept that Cincy is starting to fall behind many of its peers when it comes to, economic development, planning, downtown development, retail, and population. So if that makes some of the Cincy posters think I am down on Cincy, so be it (I am not, and have many post that have positive comments on Cincy).

But it doesn't change that many of my comments have facts, data and info behind them and that I have challenged some of your personal opinions with them.

Um.....your whole store closing point.....is kinda incorrect, just because most stores along the Magnificent Mile in downtown Chicago close at 7, and I don't think they do that because sales are so terrible....

First, if you are trying to say that downtown Cincy's retail environment is as good as Indy's, that a joke. Also, most of the stores I listed are in downtown Indy.

Okay ... now go back and read the post after that. :ohno:


As far as Saks and Tiffany's. The Saks and Tiffany's both in Cincy is doing so well that they close at 6:00 ever day except one and the Macy's just recently reduced their store foot print because sales are slow.

So let me get this straight:

The more successful a store is, the later it opens? ... wow ...

And two, why don't you look up dept. store square footage construction built before the 90's and then after. When you see the trend, get back to me and let me know.


... and most posters don't think you have some weird inferior complexity issue with Cincy, they know you do. It's very evident, Rage.


I'm sorry, but I don't think big-box specialty chains get that many people off around here. I mean, I'm as metro as the next city dweller, but I don't take shopping that serious, lol ... and I sure as hell am not going to drive to Indy to purchase something, unless it where an IKEA product of course. ;)

You'd be surprised at how many Milwaukeeians travel to Chicagoland to do some shopping throughout the year.....

^ Oh, I know ...

I have a cousin that flies to Chicago frequently to shop in Chi-town from Cincinnati, but Indy and Chicago are two different worlds completely.

I've had friends on more than one occasion rent a Penske truck and drive to Chicago's IKEA and fill it up. One, IKEA's freight shipping charges are rediculous and two, it seems two-thirds of their items aren't available for online purchase.

^ Oh, I know ...

I have a cousin that flies to Chicago frequently to shop in Chi-town from Cincinnati, but Indy and Chicago are two different worlds completely.

I've had friends on more than one occasion rent a Penske truck and drive to Chicago's IKEA and fill it up. One, IKEA's freight shipping charges are rediculous and two, it seems two-thirds of their items aren't available for online purchase.

You got a point there. I guess Milwaukeeians should be honored to have such a shopping mecca only an hour away. As said earlier, our downtown right now needs a big retail facelift. So, even Milwaukee and Indy's shopping districts are two different worlds. Let's just put it this way: If Sak's opened a downtown Milwaukee store, I'm sure half the city would shit their pants.

I can't wait for IKEA to open a Milwaukee area store. I was and wasn't surprised to hear of Pabst Farms getting one, but I also heard of the US 45/Watertown Plank location as well (right next to the Medical Complex, Milwaukee County Research Park, and only a 10 min drive from Mayfair - Milwaukee's busiest shopping center). It's currently a football field and some county offices I believe.

^ So, Milwaukee is getting an IKEA? Is this what you're saying?

Okay ... now go back and read the post after that. :ohno:




So let me get this straight:

The more successful a store is, the later it opens? ... wow ...

And two, why don't you look up dept. store square footage construction built before the 90's and then after. When you see the trend, get back to me and let me know.


... and most posters don't think you have some weird inferior complexity issue with Cincy, they know you do. It's very evident, Rage.


I'm sorry, but I don't think big-box specialty chains get that many people off around here. I mean, I'm as metro as the next city dweller, but I don't take shopping that serious, lol ... and I sure as hell am not going to drive to Indy to purchase something, unless it where an IKEA product of course. ;)

Its a shame you were unable to actually focus on the real discussion issue that I brought up and you even pointed it out. Back 10 or 15 years ago Cincy did get (Saks and Tiffany's) the trend type retailers before most of the midwest metros did. But in the last 10 years or so something has happened in the demographic data that made many of the retailers make Cincy one of their last stops instead of one of their first stops. That was the real topic I presented and the store and restaurant developments point to this. Getting worked up because someone point this issue out is sad.:ohno:

^ No, you are failing to see what the point at hand is and that is ...


Cincy was one of the first to establish "high-end retail" in the midwest and was not "one of the last" ... it's just that Indy's is just now catching on and this is causing you to get an emotional erection.


Secondly, you have got to be a moron to think that a "nifty retail scene" is going to cause your city to outpace Chicago (directed toward your metro growth rate and the Chicago vs. Indy thread - and your broken record statements) ... and the reason for that is retail is like the mobile phone industry. It changes every 6 months. Nothing is set in concrete, it is a false savior, and it is NOT what makes a city a city.

You have got to be out of your fucking mind, if you think that a specialty big-box retail store is "where it's at".

I'd rather have a Detroit, St. Louis, Milwaukee, and a Cleveland any day over Indianapolis' (suburban, white man's land, hoosier, brickyard 400, shopping mecca of 2007 and runner up for 2008) sorry excuse for a midwestern city ... even if it double it's damn population in 6 fucking months.

^ No, you are failing to see what the point at hand is and that is ...


Cincy was one of the first to establish "high-end retail" in the midwest and was not "one of the last" ... it's just that Indy's is just now catching on and this is causing you to get an emotional erection.


Secondly, you have got to be a moron to think that a "nifty retail scene" is going to cause your city to outpace Chicago (directed toward your metro growth rate and the Chicago vs. Indy thread - and your broken record statements) ... and the reason for that is retail is like the mobile phone industry. It changes every 6 months. Nothing is set in concrete, it is a false savior, and it is NOT what makes a city a city.

You have got to be out of your fucking mind, if you think that a specialty big-box retail store is "where it's at".

I'd rather have a Detroit, St. Louis, Milwaikee, and a Cleveland any day over Indianapolis' (suburban, white man's land, hoosier, brickyard 400, shopping mecca of 2007 and runner up for 2008) sorry excuse for a midwestern city ... even if it double it's damn population in 6 fucking months.

Clearly you are unable to have a real planning and economic development conversation. Also, you can't spell Milwaukee.

Problem solved!

Clearly you are unable to have a real planning and economic development conversation.

toochey, ... - and your broken record statements ...


You just cannot handle this paragraph:
Secondly, you have got to be a moron to think that a "nifty retail scene" is going to cause your city to outpace Chicago (directed toward your metro growth rate and the Chicago vs. Indy thread - and your broken record statements) ... and the reason for that is retail is like the mobile phone industry. It changes every 6 months. Nothing is set in concrete, it is a false savior, and it is NOT what makes a city a city.


You get soooo caught up in this, it just baffles me. I feel like I am having a discussion with someone that owns a Drees manufactured home that lives on a lot sectioned out for a new subdivision, with a white picket fence, and makes sure that the neighborhood is at least 98% white, with the other 2% being Asian (because Asians are ok, as long as they are wealthy), and is a member of the NRA, and thinks that going to the local mall is a family-fun filled Saturday recreational activity for the whole family, type of guy.

... You should become more active in the "Sunbelt Cities" section of SSC. You'll love it over there!

^ No, you are failing to see what the point at hand is and that is ...


Cincy was one of the first to establish "high-end retail" in the midwest and was not "one of the last" ... it's just that Indy's is just now catching on and this is causing you to get an emotional erection.


Secondly, you have got to be a moron to think that a "nifty retail scene" is going to cause your city to outpace Chicago (directed toward your metro growth rate and the Chicago vs. Indy thread - and your broken record statements) ... and the reason for that is retail is like the mobile phone industry. It changes every 6 months. Nothing is set in concrete, it is a false savior, and it is NOT what makes a city a city.

You have got to be out of your fucking mind, if you think that a specialty big-box retail store is "where it's at".

I'd rather have a Detroit, St. Louis, Milwaukee, and a Cleveland any day over Indianapolis' (suburban, white man's land, hoosier, brickyard 400, shopping mecca of 2007 and runner up for 2008) sorry excuse for a midwestern city ... even if it double it's damn population in 6 fucking months.

you clearly dont know anything of the history, culture, urbanism, shopping, people, or anything in indianapolis.
fuckin grow up.

^ Unionstation13, just settle down. No, I don't hate Indy and I'm not going to blow it up. I've said it over and over again that I enjoy being downtown. It's just that I am not enjoying it when I am in a dressing room trying on a new pair of $650.99 pants from Saks.

Indy as of 2000, I know this is a long time ago, so feel free to update it!

70.2 percent non-Hispanic, white; 24.8 percent African American; 3.9 percent Hispanic; 1.3 percent Asian; and 0.6 percent Native American

^ Unionstation13, just settle down. No, I don't hate Indy and I'm not going to blow it up. I've said it over and over again that I enjoy being downtown. It's just that I am not enjoying it when I am in a dressing room trying on a new pair of $650.99 pants from Saks.

Indy as of 2000, I know this is a long time ago, so feel free to update it!

70.2 percent non-Hispanic, white; 24.8 percent African American; 3.9 percent Hispanic; 1.3 percent Asian; and 0.6 percent Native American

central Indianapolis has a high percent of the other ethnicities, the only white mans wolrds are out in the suburbian annexed areas.
But, the whole pants thing has absuloutly nothing to do with your sudden hatred towards indianapolis.
I still dont think you have actually been to indy,and just hopping on a plane, driving into circle centre and going back home doesent count buddy.
how did you not blow up? you just had some emotional breakdown, what were you abused as a child in indianapolis or something?

^ So, Milwaukee is getting an IKEA? Is this what you're saying?

I believe so. Milwaukee has been getting rumors of an IKEA opening for the past 2 years. Just nothing's been announced yet.

And for both Indy and Cincy posters - give up already! You guys are fighting over what? You guys both have great shopping, and right now Milwaukee can only look up to cities like yours to get up to par. So your fighting is absolutely pointless.

Also, every city has suburbs - massive suburbs. I'm sure Milwaukeeians would love to chime in right about now saying how terrible, hideous, and shameful it is to be in the same metro as some of Milwaukee's suburbs. So will you both shut it already and just have a nice, insightful, chat about retail expansion in the Midwest?

Thank you.

P.S: If you wanna bitch about racial segregation - Milwaukee holds the #1 spot for being racially segregated. Not that it's a good thing, but you cities sitting and taunting is just stupid. And anywho - what does racial backgrounds have to do with shopping?

I believe so. Milwaukee has been getting rumors of an IKEA opening for the past 2 years. Just nothing's been announced yet.

And for both Indy and Cincy posters - give up already! You guys are fighting over what? You guys both have great shopping, and right now Milwaukee can only look up to cities like yours to get up to par. So your fighting is absolutely pointless.

Also, every city has suburbs - massive suburbs. I'm sure Milwaukeeians would love to chime in right about now saying how terrible, hideous, and shameful it is to be in the same metro as some of Milwaukee's suburbs. So will you both shut it already and just have a nice, insightful, chat about retail expansion in the Midwest?

Thank you.

P.S: If you wanna bitch about racial segregation - Milwaukee holds the #1 spot for being racially segregated!


fine, ruin my fun. :bash:

MW is #1??? thats suprising.

fine, ruin my fun. :bash:

MW is #1??? thats suprising.

I will! :lol: I find it interesting that people have thoughts on their cities' retail scene and I refuse to let this go down to bickering just to have this thread closed. HELL NO.

Anywho, if I was gonna be doing such a thing I'd be saying we're getting an Anthopologie and Indy isn't!! muwahahahaha!!!



Yeeeah.....

First, if you are trying to say that downtown Cincy's retail environment is as good as Indy's, that a joke. Also, most of the stores I listed are in downtown Indy.

As far as Saks and Tiffany's. The Saks and Tiffany's both in Cincy is doing so well that they close at 6:00 ever day except one and the Macy's just recently reduced their store foot print because sales are slow. Sound like a strong retail environment to me.

I'm sorry you don't like that I have have brought up the concept that Cincy is starting to fall behind many of its peers when it comes to, economic development, planning, downtown development, retail, and population. So if that makes some of the Cincy posters think I am down on Cincy, so be it (I am not, and have many post that have positive comments on Cincy).

But it doesn't change that many of my comments have facts, data and info behind them and that I have challenged some of your personal opinions with them.

I don't understand this statement...if you made this about 10 or so years ago you might be right on, but Cincinnati has NOT fallen behind Indy yet in terms of population, corporate HQ, or anything else of that nature. And guess what Cincinnati compares very favorably to its peers.

The Cincinnati metro is experiencing steady economic and population growth...now it's not great, but when we're comparing it to Cincy's peers (Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cbus, Indy, Louisville, St. Louis, Detroit, etc). And it's right near the top with places like Minneapolis, Indy and Cbus. Just the facts...I don't know why you continue to make posts as if Cincinnati is heading in a downward spiral, because it really isn't at all...and never was.

Growth slowed, but NEVER declined. The job market continues to be one of the BEST in the Midwest, and now the inner-city is seeing population increases, massive drops in crime rates and tons of new investment in the center city (much more than many of it's peers).

Bottom line is yes, Indy has made great strides in the past 10-20 years. They were able to capitalize on the GREAT economy of the Clinton years and what not, while Cincinnati was down slightly and was unable to do the same. Cincinnati has since turned it around and is rebounding strong, but guess what the economy hasn't been there for the past 5 or so years to support any of this new development. Nordstrom would have been in Downtown Cincinnati 5 or so years ago, but the economy was crap and Nordstrom halted ALL new expansion plans nationwide.

Cincinnati can not control the national/global economy, but the next economic boom that comes around Cincinnati needs to be ready for it. That's all, a simple slowdown during a 5-10 year span is what you identify as setting Cincinnati back.

Oh, and by the way here is a list of some other notable metros without your beloved Van Maur:

New York City, NY
Boston, MA
Philadelphia, PA
Washington, DC
Miami, FL
Seattle, WA
San Francisco, CA
Los Angeles, CA
Portland, OR
Denver, CO
Atlanta, GA
Dallas, TX
Phoenix, AZ
San Diego, CA
Charlotte, NC
Las Vegas, NV

I don't think I need to go on...you get the picture. If you want you can see here where Van Maur is actually located. Quite exclusive if you ask me...clearly Cincinnati is behind the curve on this one.

http://www.vonmaur.com/Default.aspx?PageId=6&nt=9

^ All of those cities mentioned above are falling behind their peers. God save them!

Hey, calm down Cincy!

Von Maur is very well known as the "Nordstrom of the Midwest" for a reason. It doesn't need to span all across the country for recognition. Marshall Field's was also a Midwestern institution, but was known worldwide as truly an upscale department store people wish they could have had.

Also, Von Maur is in both Indy and Cincy, so to me it doesn't make sense as to why Cincy would be using Von Maur as a tool to mock Indy posters....if anything mock Milwaukee posters that every state in the Midwest has at least one Von Maur except Wisconsin. Then again, please don't mock us!!

I almost forgot to mention, if Cincy members go on the Chicago forums they'll discover that plenty of Chicagoans HATE and DETEST their company, Macy's Inc, to the point of where some wish Macy's would be sold and wiped off the map!

I don't understand this statement...if you made this about 10 or so years ago you might be right on, but Cincinnati has NOT fallen behind Indy yet in terms of population, corporate HQ, or anything else of that nature. And guess what Cincinnati compares very favorably to its peers.

The Cincinnati metro is experiencing steady economic and population growth...now it's not great, but when we're comparing it to Cincy's peers (Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cbus, Indy, Louisville, St. Louis, Detroit, etc). And it's right near the top with places like Minneapolis, Indy and Cbus. Just the facts...I don't know why you continue to make posts as if Cincinnati is heading in a downward spiral, because it really isn't at all...and never was.

Growth slowed, but NEVER declined. The job market continues to be one of the BEST in the Midwest, and now the inner-city is seeing population increases, massive drops in crime rates and tons of new investment in the center city (much more than many of it's peers).

Bottom line is yes, Indy has made great strides in the past 10-20 years. They were able to capitalize on the GREAT economy of the Clinton years and what not, while Cincinnati was down slightly and was unable to do the same. Cincinnati has since turned it around and is rebounding strong, but guess what the economy hasn't been there for the past 5 or so years to support any of this new development. Nordstrom would have been in Downtown Cincinnati 5 or so years ago, but the economy was crap and Nordstrom halted ALL new expansion plans nationwide.

Cincinnati can not control the national/global economy, but the next economic boom that comes around Cincinnati needs to be ready for it. That's all, a simple slowdown during a 5-10 year span is what you identify as setting Cincinnati back.

Oh, and by the way here is a list of some other notable metros without your beloved Van Maur:

New York City, NY
Boston, MA
Philadelphia, PA
Washington, DC
Miami, FL
Seattle, WA
San Francisco, CA
Los Angeles, CA
Portland, OR
Denver, CO
Atlanta, GA
Dallas, TX
Phoenix, AZ
San Diego, CA
Charlotte, NC
Las Vegas, NV

I don't think I need to go on...you get the picture. If you want you can see here where Van Maur is actually located. Quite exclusive if you ask me...clearly Cincinnati is behind the curve on this one.

http://www.vonmaur.com/Default.aspx?PageId=6&nt=9

The retail discussion has been about the major midwest metros, not the entire country, so your list doesn't apply to the conversation (Von Maur by the way is a midwest institution).

The point of the discussion was, at one time Cincy was one of the first to get 'trend retailers' but now it general is one of the last ones in the region. You responded to that with the German, hometown comments, which is fine, but doesn't change the retail situation.

All the rest, I'm not going to go through this discussion again. You know and I know that the Cincy area has not done well in embracing new urbanist principles, mixed use development in large amounts, roundabouts, modern mixed use lifestyle centers, the life science and biotech industry, and comprehensive planning for the future. These are the real issues and I firmly believe these issues are affecting the economic future of the Cincy area. Is Cincy still growing yes, but its missing out on a brighter future by not embracing these items in a bigger way.

Another Indy forumer knocking Cincinnati to make their city look better? Why am I not surprised. Get real...

You guys need to calm down....

You guys need to calm down....

Amen - these pissing matches are such a waste of urine.

It's almost amazing that we all don't die of strokes due to being so stressed out on this forum! :lol:

Hey cincinnati, if you ever get too frustrated with Indy, just read my signature.

I feel bad for the sane Indianapolis posters on here like arenn and cjfjapan that have to put up with such an extraordinarily high amount of embarrassing posters from their city like ragerunner1

and now everyone throws their 2 cents about how much they hate indy.
the midwest forum, ah, dont you love it?

Another Indy forumer knocking Cincinnati to make their city look better? Why am I not surprised. Get real...

this is the part where the cincy forumers act like the victums and another bitchfit starts, I get bored and watch youtube music videos, someone goes and masturbates, while two others have sex on some other ones hood and we all forget it the next day.. sorta like clubbing.
I'm half asleep, lacked coffee this morning, and I'm having my special time right now, so I honestly dont wanna get into this.
all the bitching on the midwest forum, I wouldent be suprised if half of us have like brain tumers or something.
:nuts:

I'd rather have a Detroit, St. Louis, Milwaukee, and a Cleveland any day over Indianapolis' (suburban, white man's land, hoosier, brickyard 400, shopping mecca of 2007 and runner up for 2008) sorry excuse for a midwestern city ... even if it double it's damn population in 6 fucking months.


That's just uncalled for, and completely ignorant.

I usually enjoy your intelligent fact-based posts, but now you're just dumb.

EDIT: I wasn't originally going to respond to this post, but it really pissed me off.

Indianapolis:

Suburban? Sure, but Cincinnati and every other city in the Midwest is dominated by its suburbs. It's a product of the late 20th century, and will continue for a long time. You can't say Cincinnati isn't part of a sprawling, bland suburban region. Sprawling so much now that Dayton is going to be in the MSA?

White Man's Land? I don't even know what you mean by that. I suppose if you're just sticking to the suburbs then sure it's mostly a white man's land. Even if you pull up statistics about demographics, they're going to be inflated since Indy has annexed so many "would-be" white suburbs. If you were to look at the city center, you'd have a high percentage of Blacks and Hispanics. More importantly those areas are very well integrated with whites. Can't really say the same for Over-the-Rhine. Indianapolis is host to the largest African-American celebration/festival in the country: Indiana Black Expo. It's a week long festival celebrating African-American culture, history, etc. Odd event for a white man's land.

Hoosier. I'm not really sure where you were going with that one. Hoosier refers to the entire state. I don't really see anything wrong with being considered "Hoosier". If assume you're using the term conjure up connotations of "backward" or "redneck" or whatever. Excuse me, I forgot that farms and rural areas with Hoosier-types don't exist in Ohio.

Brickyard 400. Here you go again trying to stereotype the entire city based on an event that occurs once every 365 days. The majority of the people that attend the race aren't even from Indianapolis. The city just happens to play host because of its 100 year auto-racing history.

Shopping mecca of 2007. No that'd be Milan.

Sorry excuse for a midwestern city. I'd say its more Midwestern cities are sorry excuses for cities.

cityfan, ignore that post. I was going to go back and delete it. It was arrogant and selfish, but when I got back home, it had already been up too long to even make a difference for me to delete it.

I apologize to the Indy forumers on here that have common sense in their discussions on what makes a city, a great one.

To Unionstation and brewcityfan, please don't assume that everyone that post a directed comment is losing it. Did it ever occur to you guys that some of us post harsh (real - uncensored) comments with a smirk on our face? ;)

To ragerunner's last post: see post #109, 3 comment down. (again)


... Cincy area has not done well in embracing new urbanist principles ...

... give it up, rage.

Downtown's hopping again
Revamped Square, new restaurants and nightclubs a hit
BY JON NEWBERRY | JNEWBERRY@ENQUIRER.COM


More than a decade after the city of Cincinnati poured millions into the so-called Backstage Entertainment District in hopes of sparking downtown nightlife, the blocks north of Fountain Square are finally catching fire.

Last year's renovation of Fountain Square itself gets a lot of the credit, having given investors added assurance that downtown has turned the corner.

But it seems to be a combination of factors in addition to Fountain Square - more residents, improved public safety measures and more effective leadership at City Hall and from Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) - that is finally drawing a critical mass of businesses and people to downtown streets after 6 p.m.

The estimated 40,000 visitors descending on downtown for the annual Macy's Music Festival this weekend will find that activity along Seventh and Walnut streets has increased considerably since last year with the opening of several chain-based venues: Sully's Sports Bar & Grill, The Lodge Bar and Cadillac Ranch Rock-N-Country Bar & Grill.

Others in the near future include homegrown entrants such as the proposed Bootsy Ruby nightclub, for which restaurateur Jeff Ruby and funk musician Bootsy Collins have been eyeing a spot on Walnut Street, and Buddakhan's Classic Rock Café, which is now being worked on, on Vine Street just north of Seventh.

New restaurants are also in the works at Sixth and Walnut, with Minneapolis-based Oceanaire slated to open in the newly revamped 580 Building and Boca Restaurant Group's Mexican restaurant Nada going into the space across the street that used to house Bella.

The new, evolving Backstage District - if that's what it's becoming - currently follows an L shape along Seventh and Walnut streets, beginning with Sully's at Seventh and Race and terminating at the Cadillac Ranch at Sixth and Walnut. It could be extended further west in September when Sung Korean Bistro opens at Seventh and Elm.

A couple of years ago, "you couldn't get anyone to come down to Seventh Street to save your life," said Danny Dell, a bar and restaurant consultant who has been hired to get Buddakhan's ready for a September opening. Back then, in the wake of the highly publicized closing of Maisonette and La Normandie, landlords desperate for tenants were practically giving away spots, Dell said.

Now suitable spots for nightclubs are becoming scarce.

"The obituary for downtown was written prematurely," said Arn Bortz, a partner at Towne Properties, which has developed properties along the budding entertainment corridor and elsewhere downtown.

The most immediate explanation for the rash of new businesses is the rebirth of Fountain Square. But there's more to it than that, according to Bortz. He credits the arrival of more affordable clubs catering to younger customers - complementing the higher-end restaurants overlooking Fountain Square - with bringing new energy to the streets.

The idea is to make downtown a 24-hour-a-day destination for people who might not even know exactly where they're going to spend the evening.

"But they know they can enjoy a good time on Seventh Street or around Fountain Square simply by going downtown, parking and enjoying a number of different venues," Bortz said.

"It's a critical mass of different activities and choices, and not everybody wants to or can afford the higher-end, white-tablecloth restaurants that are clustered around Fountain Square."

That new energy, and the consumer dollars that accompany it, is attracting more investment and also flows into older businesses that survived the dry spell.

Natalie Zelina, manager of Rockin' Robin's, said her business has been picking up, and there's even been informal talk of street festivals a la the Main Street entertainment district.

"Now all of a sudden, there's people everywhere," she said. "It's wonderful.

"I think slowly people are starting to be less fearful. The more people who are down here, the better off we're all going to be."

Don Wilson, hands-on owner of Madonna's Bar & Grill for the past 10 years, said his core customer base consists of employees from nearby restaurants and clubs, so the growth adds to his business.

"Ruby's people are in here. McFadden's people are in here. Any bar or restaurant in the area .... this is their place to go when they get off," Wilson said.

"We've heard the term 'entertainment district' for a while. I'm all for it. All it's going to do is help me."

The impact is also being felt along Sixth Street's former restaurant row, where the buildings that housed Maisonette and La Normandie stand deserted.

Fred Seeger, a real estate broker with Re/Max Results Plus who has the buildings under contract, said buyer interest in recent weeks has perked up noticeably in terms of both the number of interested parties and their intensity.

"All of a sudden, it's gotten kind of loud," he said.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070728/BIZ01/707280366

To Unionstation and brewcityfan, please don't assume that everyone that post a directed comment is losing it. Did it ever occur to you guys that some of us post harsh (real - uncensored) comments with a smirk on our face? ;)

You actually can do that!? I'm really impressed!! See, when I post harsh things, I'm generally extremely pissed off and want to bust the monitor screen.....;)

Anyways...did I say anyone was losing it?? I'm really confused. I did say for you guys to calm down a tad! If you wanna see losing it, try finding the whole Milwaukee/suburbs = animosity thread. THAT was losing it! :nuts:

Also, I'm pissed that Cincy has a Madonna's Bar & Grill! :lol: Do they play Madonna music all the time?

I feel bad for the sane Indianapolis posters on here like arenn and cjfjapan that have to put up with such an extraordinarily high amount of embarrassing posters from their city like ragerunner1

Sorry LouisvilleGuy05 for discussing things like roundabouts, new urbanist, and mixed use on an urban development forum. I could see how these things are very embarrassing. I guess I should do more name calling, and swearing so I look more intelligent!

Have you seen arenn post on urbanohio discussing the Cincy area and what these same posters have said about his comments and how they have reacted? Its been the same way.

P.S. Correct me if I am wrong, but may of these same Cincy poster have not been very kind to Louisville in past either. Have you not picked up on a trend by some of them?

You actually can do that!? I'm really impressed!! See, when I post harsh things, I'm generally extremely pissed off and want to bust the monitor screen.....;)

Anyways...did I say anyone was losing it?? I'm really confused. I did say for you guys to calm down a tad! If you wanna see losing it, try finding the whole Milwaukee/suburbs = animosity thread. THAT was losing it! :nuts:

Also, I'm pissed that Cincy has a Madonna's Bar & Grill! :lol: Do they play Madonna music all the time?

same here. :lol:
madonna bar and grill?
I prefer to keep my food in my stomach.

Ragerunner, your comments look just as ridiculous to us as ours do to you ...

You are talking about a roundabout (which roundabouts do not make or break a city, by the way. lol) ... and a department store sure as hell doesn't.

To be honest, this thread belongs in the "Does your city have a Post Office" category. It really should be in the Skyscraper Bar if you are really that excited about this breaking news. If you get this excited about a department store then why do you choose to live in Hamilton, OH? Or claim Indy? Just curious …

I'm curious as to what Chicagoans think about "Indy to get H&M"? ... Or, other posters from around the US. It's actually kind of embarrassing to the Midwest in regards to a whole thread dedicated to a single department store on an urban forum.

We'll keep doing our thing with investing millions of dollars into our downtown and revitalizing our beautiful neighborhoods and we'll do it whether or not we have a roundabout at 5th & Vine St. ;)

Ragerunner, your comments look just as ridiculous to us as ours do to you ...

You are talking about a roundabout (which roundabouts do not make or break a city, by the way. lol) ... and a department store sure as hell doesn't.

To be honest, this thread belongs in the "Does your city have a Post Office" category. It really should be in the Skyscraper Bar if you are really that excited about this breaking news. If you get this excited about a department store then why do you choose to live in Hamilton, OH? Or claim Indy? Just curious …

I'm curious as to what Chicagoans think about "Indy to get H&M"? ... Or, other posters from around the US. It's actually kind of embarrassing to the Midwest in regards to a whole thread dedicated to a single department store on an urban forum.

We'll keep doing our thing with investing millions of dollars into our downtown and revitalizing our beautiful neighborhoods and we'll do it whether or not we have a roundabout at 5th & Vine St. ;)

You may be right. I guess I thought some people might understand such things as roundabouts and how they affect the overall environment and traffic flow (compared to regular street design), or the value of mixed use on a large scale (urban and suburban), or that companies DO use demographic data to determine potential communities to locate in and some of that demographic data does look at retail offerings, etc... I have even seen data that uses the amount of starbucks a community has to determine trend factors for a city (not saying its right or wrong, but these things are looked at to some degree or another, weather I or you think is right or not). My mistake was trying to convince some that these issue are relevent to a communities future and economic growth. I will be more careful next time to just make some general personal statement, throw a few 'your stupid around' and move on to the next topic and wait and see which concepts help produced the best future for a community.

By the way, our Saks and Tiffany's are in the CBD, unlike your suburban locations. Also, both locations in Cincy are doing well -see Cincinnati Business Courier.

FYI: I think this is the stupidest debate to ever take place on an urban website. I just felt the need to throw my 2 cents out there ...

Well, Indy has had Nordies in our CBD since 1995 and our second location will open next year. Where's your Nordies...? :)

As for the Saks, I don't think it's doing well in Cincy. A friend's wife works there in the cosmetics area and she tellls me repeatedly that they are on the verge of closing. I actually just saw her this weekend and she was saying how she hopes to either transfer here or get hired at Nordies at the Fashion Mall.

As far as "black population," Indianapolis was recently named one of teh Top 10 Cities for African Americans (the same list that put Charlotte #1). Indy has very little racial tension and really embraces its Black Expo and Circle City Classic.

Don't forget Kohl's...

I LOVE Khol's! Now there is a strore I can ACTUALLY afford to purchase from! When they have sales, there is no other place where I but clothes for work.

Well, Indy has had Nordies in our CBD since 1995 and our second location will open next year. Where's your Nordies...? :)

As for the Saks, I don't think it's doing well in Cincy. A friend's wife works there in the cosmetics area and she tellls me repeatedly that they are on the verge of closing. I actually just saw her this weekend and she was saying how she hopes to either transfer here or get hired at Nordies at the Fashion Mall.

I've heard that to from a former Executive at Saks, not that it was on the verge of closing, but that it was a low performer.

I LOVE Khol's! Now there is a strore I can ACTUALLY afford to purchase from! When they have sales, there is no other place where I but clothes for work.

See you can always depend on a Wisconsin company to reach out and help millions on day-to-day purchases!! :lol:

I'd probably say we're as fond of Kohl's as we are our Art Museum. We take our hometown businesses VERY seriously.

Perhaps that's why Nordies ain't looking here.....they think we're too cheap! :ohno:

I LOVE Khol's! Now there is a strore I can ACTUALLY afford to purchase from! When they have sales, there is no other place where I but clothes for work.

same here!
I can actually buy a bunch of stuff without wasting my paycheck away!:banana:

[QUOTE=Cincinnatus;14526835]Ragerunner, your comments look just as ridiculous to us as ours do to you ...
QUOTE]

Man I am sorry I bumped this thread back to life. :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

Does everyone here realize the original post on this thread was almost 3 years ago?

Does everyone here realize the original post on this thread was almost 3 years ago?

Yeeeeah.....your point being??

Anywho, I think they already calmed down. Thank God!!

For those who don't know H&M (stands for Hennes & Mauritz) is a Swedish store chain and we have had many of them in Sweden for decades. But it has only been in USA for a few years and it was big news in Sweden when they opened the first American store in New York City.

Here in Malmö, 5 of 6 H&M stores are located in malls!

For those who don't know H&M (stands for Hennes & Mauritz) is a Swedish store chain and we have had many of them in Sweden for decades. But it has only been in USA for a few years and it was big news in Sweden when they opened the first American store in New York City.

Here in Malmö, 5 of 6 H&M stores are located in malls!

What is your thoughts on the quality of H&M, and the IKEA quality? IKEA seemed alittle better a few years ago. Being a Swede, I do find several cool smaller non chain stores in the cities here.:banana: