Why the hell isn't this company blacklisted by the EU? Everything I have ever read about this company is that they are FUBARing everything they are involved in.

If it's not the worthless IC4 in Denmark, then it is the worthless new trams in Gothenburg or the worthless new V250 HSR train in Holland or the worthless ETR 500 in Italy.

What the hell is going on? Why is this maffia shite organization allowed to continue with their scams, all they do is robbing money from taxpayers all over europe :bash:

Calm down. They offer better prices than other train makers, and get contracts.

The V250 project is recovering after previous problems - finally.

Calm down. They offer better prices than other train makers, and get contracts.

The V250 project is recovering after previous problems - finally.

They sell you a Ferrari and then you find out after delivery that in reality it was a Fiat with a broke gearbox.

They sell you a Ferrari and then you find out after delivery that in reality it was a Fiat with a broke gearbox.

The problem is that people contracting them usually mixup the specs and other things during the project, and AnsaldoBreda is less flexible with protocol adjustments than other train maker. So they can argue in courts forever.

There is no such "blacklisting" of an European company operating under the law of an European state.

Suburbanist has stock in AnsaldoBreda.

Always defending incompetence.

Suburbanist has stock in AnsaldoBreda.

Always defending incompetence.

I don't own any shares of Finmeccaninca (the holding of which AnsaldoBreda is part of).

Finmeccanica is facing major financial problems due to economic crysis in Italy. Just a few days ago stocks plunged losing 20% in one day.

We're having major delays in Italy as well on deliveries from Ansando Breda, FinCantieri and Alenia, and we're sorry for delays all around the world.

The problem is that people contracting them usually mixup the specs and other things during the project, and AnsaldoBreda is less flexible with protocol adjustments than other train maker.

So you are conceding that it is a less customer orientated company than the other rolling stock suppliers?
Because it looks like it will either have to adapt to the realities of the market, or disappear. There are companies out there after all that manage to deliver reliable train sets on time and on budget...

Why the hell isn't this company blacklisted by the EU?

It's not up to the EU to "blacklist" companies. It's up to the railways not to consider their offers when writing out a tender. I suspect that the V250 will probably be the last train AnsaldoBreda will sell outside of Italy for a while...

This firm is the epitome of poor performance, and frankly I'm disappointed that people still buy rolling stock from them. Just let it die for christ's sake.

That's true, and even italian railways should stop buying AnsaldoBreda trains! :bash:
In Italy we still have othe non-state owned companies, that can work much better, even if they don't get any order from the state railways :ohno:

So you are conceding that it is a less customer orientated company than the other rolling stock suppliers?

Of course. There is no point negating that. They work like it were 1992 in terms of project specification and didn't implement design-adjust-build philosophy at all.

Because it looks like it will either have to adapt to the realities of the market, or disappear. There are companies out there after all that manage to deliver reliable train sets on time and on budget...

Finmeccaninca is considering either selling the rolling stock unit, and/or shutting down the long-distance stock unit (retaining only the subway, light-rail and tram unit).

It's not up to the EU to "blacklist" companies. It's up to the railways not to consider their offers when writing out a tender. I suspect that the V250 will probably be the last train AnsaldoBreda will sell outside of Italy for a while...

In certain cases, laws prevent railway companies owned by governments for not considering a bid from a capable supplier.

In certain cases, laws prevent railway companies owned by governments for not considering a bid from a capable supplier.

Capable supplier? Well no law will force anyone to consider AnsaldoBreda, then :lol:

...retaining only the subway, light-rail and tram unit).

Makes sense. They're supplying rolling stock to LA's Metro (apparently they have the unions "bought"), and they are going to have the Honolulu Light Rail Project. SF Muni also.

Why the hell isn't this company blacklisted by the EU? Everything I have ever read about this company is that they are FUBARing everything they are involved in.

If it's not the worthless IC4 in Denmark, then it is the worthless new trams in Gothenburg or the worthless new V250 HSR train in Holland or the worthless ETR 500 in Italy.

What the hell is going on? Why is this maffia shite organization allowed to continue with their scams, all they do is robbing money from taxpayers all over europe :bash:

Can we have sources for these claims, specific cases and problems, please

Finmeccanica looks to sell off Ansaldo-Breda:

As part of a 1 billion euro asset sell-off by the end of 2012, Finmeccanica will also move ahead with talks to sell loss-making rail unit Ansaldo Breda.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=8272007&c=EUR&s=TOP

A different article says Bombardier is the favored suitor...

^^ For example the V250.
The trains were orderd in 2005 by HSA and NMBS.
The first v250 came in the end off april 2009 in holland when all the 19 trains should have been deliverd around 2007.
Right now they are still testing the trains and not all the trains are dellivered yet.
According to the latest rumors, the V250 train can't past a test to get a 1000 km without a mallfunction.:ohno:

Can we have sources for these claims, specific cases and problems, please

To help your knowledge of the problems with the Danish IC4 train sets, here is an article from the International Railway Journal on the subject.
The reason DSB decided, after this article was published, to continue with the project is mainly because it would be more expensive to abandon the project than to more or less rebuild the trains themselves and get them to work.
At this moment all IC4 trains are grounded, because of 2 cases of brake failures, leading to trains passing signals showing red. Luckily no accidents.

PS. The transport minister mentioned in the article is no longer part of the government having lost a general election to the Social Democrats.


http://i44.tinypic.com/nlvsqp.jpg

Can we have sources for these claims, specific cases and problems, please

Do you really want me to digg up tons of articles about the continous FUBARing of all the rail-contracts awarded to Ansaldobreda?
Here is one from 2009 about the FUBARed IC4

Executives at the state rail service have a backup plan ready in case its next generation of passenger trains are not delivered by the May deadline. National rail service DSB has indicated that it doubts whether Italian company Ansaldobreda can meet its deadline to deliver 14 IC4 passenger trains by May.

After repeated delays delivering the latest generation of passenger trains, DSB gave Ansaldobreda a final ultimatum last year that the first of a total of 83 IC4s would be in service by May 2009. Ansaldobreda was originally supposed to have delivered the first the IC4s by 2003, with all being fully operational by 2006.

Eight trains have been delivered, but only three are operational, and all still have problems, according to DSB. ‘I’d like to be able to say that I hope the deadline is met, but I’ve stopped believing in the IC4,’ said Søren Eriksen, DSB’s managing director, told TV2 news.

Eriksen said DSB was initiating a back-up plan should the IC4s not arrive in May. He said up to 45 double-decker trains, along with three IC3s and an additional three InterCityExpress trains loaned from Germany’s state rail service Deutsche Bahn will be ready to be put into service. He added that the failed delivery of the IC4s would result in DSB having to annul its 5 billion kroner contract with Ansaldobreda. DSB has already paid Ansaldobreda 3.5 billion kroner.

A spokesperson from Ansaldobreda told The Copenhagen Post that the company was not a liberty to comment on the situation. Currently, one IC4 train operates Monday through Thursday between Aalborg, Aarhus and Copenhagen.

Here is another article (summer of 2007) about the new trams in Gothenburg.

Gothenburg new trams a fiasco

40 new trams from Italian AnsaldoBreda would have entered service in autumn 2005. To date, twelve delivered. And all stuck with quality problems that squeak, thump tions, howling and air conditioning systems that often do not work.

- We got promises rather than reality, says Bernt Nielsen, Gothenburg's public transport manager told the newspaper Gothenburg Post. The contract between the traffic office in Gothenburg and AnsaldoBreda was signed six years ago. That the order went to the Italian company was mainly on price, about 600 million swedish krona and significantly lower than competitors could offer. Under the contract, the first car was supposed to be delivered in spring 2003 and the final in fall of 2005. That did not happen.

The first tram that was delivered could only be put in traffic between Christmas and New Year's eve 2005. The delivery of the tram series was only started in the summer of 2006, several years behind schedule. Currently (summer of 2007) only twelve trams have arrived in Gothenburg, and they all malfunction.

Why the hell isn't this company blacklisted by the EU? Everything I have ever read about this company is that they are FUBARing everything they are involved in.

If it's not the worthless IC4 in Denmark, then it is the worthless new trams in Gothenburg or the worthless new V250 HSR train in Holland or the worthless ETR 500 in Italy.

What the hell is going on? Why is this maffia shite organization allowed to continue with their scams, all they do is robbing money from taxpayers all over europe :bash:

And you forgot the Rome metro:lol:!

However Finmeccanica (the parent company of Ansaldo Breda) is in deep trouble because of the typical mismanagement of Italian state owned companies.

P.S.: now FIAT cars have good reliability, especially for what concerns mechanics.;)

However, as an Italian, is really a shame.

P.S.: now FIAT cars have good reliability, especially for what concerns mechanics.

FIAT= Fix It Again Tony

MADE IN ITALY

IC4 has become a favorite subject for Danish cartoonists. (Roald Als / Politiken)

http://i44.tinypic.com/jtxlyh.jpg

The Danes weren't to happy when an IC4 set turned up in Lybia...

http://ing.dk/modules/xphoto/cache/57/54057_616_600_0_0_0_0.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=73028985&postcount=8

Aparently a gift from Berlusconi to his pal Khadaffi...

The Danes weren't to happy when an IC4 set turned up in Lybia...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=73028985&postcount=8

Aparently a gift from Berlusconi to his pal Khadaffi...

Maybe this is what started the revolution. :lol:

There's hardly any need to blacklist AnsaldoBreda,as so far they've managed to create excellent anti-commercial for themselves. In fact,if lack of decent quality control within company & problems with poor build quality continue,then soon there won't be any PT & railway companies left who would dare to try their luck on using Ansaldo's trains.

I feel sorry for Danes though - they got really screwed by AnsaldoBreda :(

I'm sorry for Italy, that buys only from AnsaldoBreda!

I'm sorry for Italy, that buys only from AnsaldoBreda!

NTV actually buys from Alstom.

I'm sorry for Italy, that buys only from AnsaldoBreda!

But Trenitalia also buys from Alsthom and Bombardier, and NTV bought from Alstom...

But in all cases the vehicles are partly built in Italy.

Siemens doesn't have any plant there, and basically no Italian railway company has Siemens' vehicles...

Even Stadler Rail is cooperating with AnsaldoBreda on the production of Flirt EMU's for a couple of local Italian operators.

When I look at Ansaldo Breda I understand why Italy is so deep in the Sh...... I could not even finish typing what they are in because Ansaldo Breda is still producing it!

When I look at Ansaldo Breda I understand why Italy is so deep in the Sh...... I could not even finish typing what they are in because Ansaldo Breda is still producing it!

not *really* funny :|

But somehow true :(

the worthless ETR 500 in Italy.

What's the matter with the ETR 500?

Anyway, the big fail in Italy was to leave Fiat Ferroviaria to be bought by Alstom. They could have made a big railway transportation company merging it with Ansaldobreda.
Now it's too small to compete with the other big companies (Bombardier, Siemens, Alstom)

Now Finmeccanica faces a lot of troubles and don't have the money to develop a serious project for AnsaldoBreda, so I don't know, probably they will sell it...

When I look at Ansaldo Breda I understand why Italy is so deep in the Sh...... I could not even finish typing what they are in because Ansaldo Breda is still producing it!
Well it could be true.
But personally I'm really getting tired the whole world now points at Italy as the global cause of any disaster in the world.
Now also die perfekt Deutschland is in trouble because they can't sell their bonds, so they don't laugh anymore I guess?
I think everybody spend so much time in pointing out other countries' problems that they don't have time to figure out that they also have a LOT, and maybe bigger.
bye

Even Stadler Rail is cooperating with AnsaldoBreda on the production of Flirt EMU's for a couple of local Italian operators.

So far Stadler has a superb quality record. I hope the image of the company doesn't get tarnished if these sets start having problems... although I have to say that I don't think the problems at Ansaldo Breda are caused by a general attitude of italians, just by a poor quality control division and bad engineering and supervising, if all that is well done I'm sure any train built in Italy can be as reliable as any other!

So far Stadler has a superb quality record. I hope the image of the company doesn't get tarnished if these sets start having problems... although I have to say that I don't think the problems at Ansaldo Breda are caused by a general attitude of italians, just by a poor quality control division and bad engineering and supervising, if all that is well done I'm sure any train built in Italy can be as reliable as any other!

Italians are quite able to produce well engineered, well designed quality products. I know of quite a few examples. However, these come mostly from smaller firms.
One of the problems is that larger firms in Italy have for to long been living at the expense of the state, so that they are good at rent seeking, but not at project management and quality control. In the new unified European market however they must adapt.
Fiat proved that change is possible. Ansaldo Breda shows that not everyone has adapted to the new world.

:applause:
Anyway, both Ansaldo and Breda built in the past very good products, before they were merged and put into control of the state...

Well it could be true.
But personally I'm really getting tired the whole world now points at Italy as the global cause of any disaster in the world.
Now also die perfekt Deutschland is in trouble because they can't sell their bonds, so they don't laugh anymore I guess?
I think everybody spend so much time in pointing out other countries' problems that they don't have time to figure out that they also have a LOT, and maybe bigger.
bye

But perhaps the Germans must take over ownership of Ansaldo Breda with good German management - just look at the massive difference it made to Lamborghini!

By the way, I am not European but a proud African! We have a lot a problems in Africa and will soon be in even more problems because of the European crisis. Europe is struggling to buy African goods and the people paying for the bad political structures of Europe and the Euro will be the developing countries.