This is a fantasy or dream topic about future transport system needed for Tamilnadu. I hope the topic heading is self explanatory. We all know this is very distant dream, but it is not very far.. in 15-20years from now we must be eligible and building above system one by one.


Discussion could be about:

High Speed Rail

1. Chennai-Trichy-Madurai-Nellai/Tuticorin-Nagercoil High speed rail
2. Chennai-Salem-Erode-Tiruppur-Coimbatore High speed rail
3. Chennai-Pondicherry-Cuddalore-Chidambaram-Thanjavur Semi High Speed rail

Suburban System for tier II cities

1. Coimbatore-Tiruppur-Erode, Coimbatore-Mettupalayam, Coimbatore-Pollachi suburban system
2. Trichy-Thanjavur-Delta district suburban system
3. Madurai-Dindigul/Virudhunagar.Sengottai suburban system
4. Salem-Erode, Mettur-Salem-Attur suburban system
5. Tuticorin-Tirunelveli suburban system

Metro Rail/Mono Rail

1. Coimbatore
2. Madurai

Monorail

1. Trichy
2. Salem
3. Tirunelveli
4. Tiruppur
5. Erode
6. Vellore
7. Tirunelveli
8. Tuticorin

New Airports needs

Bus - Modern bus system

Water ways - especial coastal transportation as our rivers are not fit for navigation.

Topic is acknowledged by our MOD

Pl discuss HSR in the relevant thread.

If you want it to be specific to TN, you may start a new thread under TN or under TN Railway.

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I request members to post their dream/fanatasy ideas here.

crossposting

State government must support and start working on Phase2 of Chennai metro and adding AC coaches on local EMU train running on Sub urban rail network.

Central government ready to fund for Chennai metro rail Phase 2 and Coimbatore Metro rail so Tamil Nadu government should work on this line.

State government should support Chennai Metro phase 2 for the welfare of the state becuase it can be expanded even beyond 100 km on any side and it can be easily linked with high speed rail which will be built in future........

As central government is planning to implement metro on more cities the cost of metro rail will be minimized due to mass production and expertise built over the time.........

For the benefit of Tamil Nadu people state government should concentrate on Metro rail rather than Monorail, Instead of pet monorail project they can go for high speed rail from Chennai to Kanyakumari as a pet project implemented in phases as a first phase they can take Chennai to Madurai to replace 1000 of private buses which takes exorbitant fares and kills life, this will give more popularity rather than monorail to the concerned people and they can get vote all over Tamil Nadu:):):)

Chennai to Madurai 450 km - > Private AC volvo bus charges 700 to 1100 rupees ( not considered recent hike)for 9 hr of travel, However in high speed rail we can cover the same distance in 100 minutes for the charge of 1035 (as per Chinese Std 2.3 rupees for 1km)

^^ High speed rail is not a simple task. It involves huge LA costs, which would be double the actual cost of construction itself. HSR requires huge investments as well. I feel SR can still manage to run a Duronto express from Chennai to Madurai in 4 hours. Currently 120KMPH is the top speed for SR express trains. But the lines are capable of handling 130-150KMPH with minimal modifications. However the reality is we hardly touch 110KMPH and even if we do it lasts only for a few minutes due to signals and various other factors. We need tremendous Signalling system upgradations in IR overall, and that will pave way for shorter trips on current routes itself.

And on the Metro topic, yes I do prefer Metro over Mono, but let us see what kind of proposals have come in from various companies. I am sure Hitachi and Bombardier Monos would equal Metro's capacity, but yes, as you said the knowledge bank, experience and expertise are already available aplenty for Metro, whereas Mono is quite new to the country (Scomi's Mumbai Mono doesn't seem okay for chennai)..

+1..
MS-MDU at 4 hrs with less modifications and less cost will be much appreciated by TN People then MS-MDU at 2 hrs with high investments and high cost...
look at the Euphoria on bus fare price increase...

I completly agree with ur point but then in Tamil Nadu currently Double track is laid between in CGL to MDU and not even approved after MDU even approved will take another 50 years, So we can expect CGL to VM double tracking will be completed in 2015 then VM to DG will be completed in 2025, then new(refurbhished) trains for south TamilNadu from Chennai, In every budget 1 train so after 10 years 10 additional trains(old rajadhani coaches of Northern Railway)

Coming to track upgradation to run trains in 150kmph, recently work has been taken in Mumbai- Delhi strech(still in consultancy phase) then Delhi-Kolkata and then Kolkata - Mumbai; Hope u can visualise the triangle Mumbai,Delhi, Kolkata power centres, even Kerala was not there in this so expecting TamilNadu track upgradation is not possible even in 2100, First let see whther Chennai- Madurai is completed before 2025, another shocking news is Mumbai -Chennai track doubling is approved some 30 years back still not completed and still electrification is not approved in Chennai- Mumbai stretch

States like kerala, harayana are started planning for high speed rail so TamilNadu State government can take an initiative in this line, If state government is really interested in people welfare they should go for feasibility study atleast.

Postive thing abt TamilNadu regarding High Speed railway is
TamilNadu is flat terrain compared to Mumbai- Pune and Kerala so cost of constuction will be less(from european report on Cost of High speed railway) and in Chennai 60 to 70% popultaion is from south TamilNadu district( as per CMDA master plan) so no dearth for passaneger count and also if high speed rail passes through Japanese Township then we can easily push Japanese companies to South Tamilnadu districts and Japanese will be one of the beneficiaries so we can easily get loans from Japan....

High speed railway involves cost and time but even if we start to plan now it will completed in 2022/25 only so before that people will have more money to pay the ticket price of even 5to 6 Rs per km will become affordable, oil price is expected to be high in coming decades even petrol 200-300 RS in 2025 and diesel 150-250 Rs in 2025 is possible so the High speed rail which uses electricty will be the best option and Volvo's will be more coslty as it uses Lot fuel compared to High Speesd Railway, As per reports oil reserves are there only for 2050 so petrol/ diesel is going to rise due to specutlative and strategic reserves built up in different countries

The point to note here is If government is really interested in people welfare they have to go for feasibilty study atleast, but High speed rail way cannot be completed before 2014/15 election:), Tamil Nadu government really missing a vision for the future which needs serious thinking and long term perspective.......... as they are bound to think only for 5 years...:bash:

IF this 750km railway HSR is laid from Chennai to Kanya Kumari and using integrated transport bus facilities to near bydistricts the growth, Quality of life will increase tremendously in tamilnadu, Assumption Chennai -Coimbatore will be completed as Consultancy work is alreasy started. We can even use the high speed railway station which will be built for Chennai - banglare, coimbatore, trivanadpuram stretch

Railways in India should be analysed politically first then technically as it is direct control under ministry( railway ministry is used to become Chief minister in state elections) there is no demand supply match concept here

Topic deviated from Chennai monorail but worth discussing as no news regarding monorail.

New Airports needs


Runway in Kovai, Madurai and Trichy extended to 12k feet and terminals capable of handling 777s. If done no lobby can stop international airlines flying to above dest.

This will also help Chennai have a airport close to city for years.

Water transportation is slow rite?

Double lines itself will reduce the travel time considerably

Double lines itself will reduce the travel time considerably

then Chennai-Coimbatore travel time has not got reduced why?

There is huge difference between reduction in running time due to a HSR and reducing in running time due to double tracks.:)

Chennai-Arrakonam will have 4 tracks! but have enough congestion and limits for the same.

There is huge difference between conventional rail and High speed rail.:)

This is your ajjumption. Appo micha oorukku naduvulla odurra bus ellam ippa kaatha vanguthu? Naan onnum karaikudi to sivaganga HSR kekkalai. Market study boss, ok since it is fantasy thread we have to do fantasy market study through KT-Arul Inc .,

Of-course when demand is there surely HSR can run from erumapalayam to peikulam.:)

now within TN, only to Chennai there are huge no. of first class train, AC bus, flight travellers. Even II class unreserved, second sitting, sleeper class, ordinary bus travelers to Chennai will be way high compared to other sector.

Next the demand to Coimbatore and Madurai will find 2nd place, but they are at the far distant (I am telling this seeing the present choice of availability and demand).

And further if Chennai-Coimbatore HSR laid, it will not be used by Chennai crowd alone, the intemediate crowd will also use the train for example Salem/Erode crowd bound for Coimbatore may use HSR. Same with the case of Chennai-Nagercoil, Trichy/Nellai crowd to Madurai will use it.

then Chennai-Coimbatore travel time has not got reduced why?

There is huge difference between reduction in running time due to a HSR and reducing in running time due to double tracks.:)

Chennai-Arrakonam will have 4 tracks! but have enough congestion and limits for the same.

There is huge difference between conventional rail and High speed rail.:)

I agree with you. Just having double tracks would not suffice. We need to heavily upgrade signalling systems.. and more importantly all trains in the line should have Anti-collision device. In all level crossings and stations the Duronto express should be given max priority. Pity that Delhi-Chennai Rajdhani takes 28 hours and Duronto takes 27.5 hours. What's the big advantage here? Rajdhani stops in at least 10 stations and even that doesnt answer the negligible 30 mins difference.. what's the point in having Duronto, that too just twice in a week. Prioritization of Duronto would hardly affect all other trains, and may be some level crossing would need to wait for a couple of mins extra, but I am sure the train could cover the 2176 Kms distance in 16-17 hours. And this is say having the top speed at 130KMPH. If they increase that to 150KMPH it takes 14.5 hours and that's a great deal for more than 2000kms!!! Even a direct Chennai-Delhi flight takes 3.5 hours (with checkin and other wait times included it takes close to 6 hours)!! Any connecting flight takes at least 5-7 hours (with checking and other waiting times it takes 7-9 hours).. So 14-15 hours is a great deal, with the current tracks and minimal cost at which this is done!!

There shall be two more HSR's.

Hosur - Salem - Namakkal - Trichy - Pudukkottai - Ramnad HSR.
Coimbatore - Madurai - Tuticorin HSR

I agree with you. Just having double tracks would not suffice. We need to heavily upgrade signalling systems.. and more importantly all trains in the line should have Anti-collision device. In all level crossings and stations the Duronto express should be given max priority. Pity that Delhi-Chennai Rajdhani takes 28 hours and Duronto takes 27.5 hours. What's the big advantage here? Rajdhani stops in at least 10 stations and even that doesnt answer the negligible 30 mins difference.. what's the point in having Duronto, that too just twice in a week. Prioritization of Duronto would hardly affect all other trains, and may be some level crossing would need to wait for a couple of mins extra, but I am sure the train could cover the 2176 Kms distance in 16-17 hours. And this is say having the top speed at 130KMPH. If they increase that to 150KMPH it takes 14.5 hours and that's a great deal for more than 2000kms!!! Even a direct Chennai-Delhi flight takes 3.5 hours (with checkin and other wait times included it takes close to 6 hours)!! Any connecting flight takes at least 5-7 hours (with checking and other waiting times it takes 7-9 hours).. So 14-15 hours is a great deal, with the current tracks and minimal cost at which this is done!!

I agree with you that as a first step we need to go ahead with track upgradation for semi HSR. For this to be acheived following things needs to be done

1. Strengthening the tracks to fit for 220KMPH, so that 150KMPH average speed could be achieved i.e peak speed will toruch 200KMPH

2. Upgradation of signals

3. Changing the arrival and departure system i.e dep and arrival area will be separate. PF will be accessed only 5min before train arrival.

4. Upgradation of rakes from existing loco-coach comb to semi HSR EMU trains.

5. Fencing the tracks

6. Every level crossing needs to be replaced with subway/flyover,

But again this will get congested in no time!! So apart from upgrading the existing tracks, there is a need of real High speed rail for connecting the metro cities atleast in regional level i.e for example connecting southern tier II cities with Bengaluru/Chennai!

Basically three HSR lines running from Chennai to Kanyakumari.

Chennai-Trichy-Madurai-Nellai-Kanyakumari
Chennai-Coimbatore-Kanyakumari (More stops can be added)
Chennai - KanyaKumari (Along ECR).

Here in Tokyo, there is shinkansen for every 15 minutes to all parts of country.
I know it is not possible for Indian Railways to match efficiency , Planning and execution of Japan Railways.

Those are very nice points put forth.. But I don't see Point no. 6 happening ever in my lifetime! And I dont think that is needed to be implemented as well. There are level crossings all over the world. When I was in Texas I noticed a few level crossings which were unmanned, no gates but just traffic signals in place. And people follow that so strictly. Because they are educated about their safety.

Railways would definitely respond that they are ready for converting all Level crossings into Subways/ROBs, but all that depends on the Highways Dept and specific state governments.

Ok, even if HSRs get approved, constructing a Chennai-CBE or Chennai-MDU line would take at least 7 years (by DMRC/CMRL standards). That eats up this 2011-2020 decade. Train travel in India cant be this slow till 2020!!! So apart from focussing on HSRs we also need to focus on what best we can extract from whatever resources we currently have.

I saw in Indian Railways write-up that all Rajdhani express coaches are getting upgraded to Stainless steel coches which can withstand speeds upto 200KMPH. Also, the Bhopal-Delhi Rajdhani has a top speed of 160KMPH already!! So why don't we push for increase in speed and priority in signals for Duronto express trains? That will bring the travel time for Chennai-CBE from the current 6.5 hours to less than 5 hours. And Chennai-MDU from the current 9 hours to less than 6 hours. The glaring defect of planning in Duronto Express is that, top speed of a Duronto cant be more than 110KMPH, while Rajdhani has very few stops but can touch speeds of upto 130KMPH. Then why do we need Duronto in the first place?!!!? If Duronto was an improvised version of Rajdhani, it should have possessed whatever facilities and technicalities that Rajdhani already had plus some more extra points (like Point A to B stops, free water bottle, etc.)

[QUOTE=robertashok;85962458]Basically three HSR lines running from Chennai to Kanyakumari.

Ideal routes 1Chennai -Vellore-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Kochi-Trivandrum


2Coimbatore-Karur-Tiruchi-Madurai-Tirunelveli-Kanyakumari


3 Coimbatore-Udumalpet-Palani-Dindigul-Madurai-Tirunelveli

^^

Why Madurai/Trichy people needs to travel to Chennai via Coimbatore? ;) :lol:

Chennai-Coimbatore and Chennai-Madurai corridor can have common point for certain distance, then later they should travel in the respective distance. Even in developed/ing countries HSR is being built to give shorter route covering maximum cities en-route. This does not mean for connecting Chennai with New Delhi, HSR should be laid from Chennai to Delhi via Mumbai.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

High Speed Rail

1. Chennai-Trichy-Madurai-Nellai/Tuticorin-Nagercoil High speed rail
2. Chennai-Salem-Erode-Tiruppur-Coimbatore High speed rail
3. Chennai-Pondicherry-Cuddalore-Chidambaram-Thanjavur Semi High Speed rail

These three will act as main line and next feeder HSR would be

4. Coimbatore-Karur-Trichy-Thanjavur (this will provide west-east connection)
5. Ramnad-Madurai-Dindigul-Coimbatore & Hosur-Salem-Karur-Dindigul will provide north/west-south connection.

---------------------------------------------------------------

North East-South - 1
North East-West -2
North East to Central via Coastal -3

Coast/East-West -4
Coast/South-West - 5
South-North West -5

And these 5 lines will give other combination too.

But even Chennai HSR is quiest distant dream of 15yrs, connecting rest of cities with HSR i.e next 2 corridors will be 30yrs fantasy dream. So IMHO we can dream for the nearest one first i.e connecting South/Central/West TN with state capital first.

[QUOTE=robertashok;85962458]Basically three HSR lines running from Chennai to Kanyakumari.

Ideal routes 1Chennai -Vellore-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Kochi-Trivandrum


2Coimbatore-Karur-Tiruchi-Madurai-Tirunelveli-Kanyakumari


3 Coimbatore-Udumalpet-Palani-Dindigul-Madurai-Tirunelveli

I'm sure KT will love this. :)

Here in Tokyo, there is shinkansen for every 15 minutes to all parts of country.
I know it is not possible for Indian Railways to match efficiency , Planning and execution of Japan Railways.

I read somewhere during my school days that the Japan railways pays money to the commuters if the train is late by some minutes... Is that true?? If so, how much do they pay? (Sorry, if I discussed something irrelevent)

"In France, the cost of construction (which was €10 million/km (US$15.1 million/km) for LGV "

Can HSR be done at Rs 160 crores per Km like Chennai Metro? Rs 1,28,000 Crores for a line from Chennai to KK!! Realy a fantasy!

Let us plan to make the second line under construction fit for a HSR. May be cost effective.

I read somewhere during my school days that the Japan railways pays money to the commuters if the train is late by some minutes... Is that true?? If so, how much do they pay? (Sorry, if I discussed something irrelevent)

Hi ,
Even i read it somewhere, but it never happenend .
They give some kind of late notes once in a while, so that it can be showed to office, as some Japanese companies are very strict on timings.

During March 11[Fukushima] this year, the trains which were running did not accept the money, it got automatically refunded.
The Taxi's also did not charge any penny extra.but going in taxi in Japan and going in a flight in India is the same. (it is damn costly).

Coming back to three lines which I mentioned, I am sure it can cover most areas of TN.

I am putting forward my Ideas:

1. First, TN govt must try to build an Access Controlled Express-way from Chennai to Coimbatore and Chennai to Tirunelveli / Tuticorn / Kanyakumari.

2. Until Congress is there in the Central, they can try out High-Speed Rail and Metro/Mono for their cities, on its own fund.

3. For railways, first they need to upgrade their existing tracks to withstand the speed of upto 250 kmph and change most of the day trains to modern EMU coaches. Then, IR can think of HSRL. Hope our Great Grandchildren travel in the inauguration of High Speed Rail between Chennai and Coimbatore by IR.

The priorities for TN govt in Transport Infrastructure must be in the following order:
1. Approval for Chennai Metro Expansion.
2. Metro / Mono in Coimbatore, Madurai and Tiruchirapalli.
3. Expressway
4. High Speed Rail.

"In France, the cost of construction (which was €10 million/km (US$15.1 million/km) for LGV "

Can HSR be done at Rs 160 crores per Km like Chennai Metro? Rs 1,28,000 Crores for a line from Chennai to KK!! Realy a fantasy!

Let us plan to make the second line under construction fit for a HSR. May be cost effective.

Got the cost from some older post in another thread...

Cost of HSR tracks
As per european std

Avg 70 Crore INR per km
35 crore INR as cost of laying in land
and for pillar track it will take 110 crores

so CHennai madurai 450km will cost 49,500 crores(if avg cost is considerd 31500 crore)... and CHennai kanyakumari 700 km will cost 77,000 crore (if avg cost is considerd 49,000 crore), as tamil nadu is a flat terrain cost may be less also because HSR track should be in constant height for high speed so flat terrain means easy to built, as pillars will be in same height....

Hopefully Japan can provide 85% funds as soft loan and we can pay it back in 30 years easily and Japan will also be one of the beneficiary and they will be willing to shift industry to South Tamilnadu and already they have invested heavily in Tamilnadu......

We need a feasibilty study to find the cost involved,best alignment in the interest of the state not any individual, expected passenger tariff and expected passenger count ........ Central Government will not be interested in this project as it is within one state so only way is State government and private partnership.......

^^


Where will money come from ?

Central Government will not be interested in this project as it is within one state so only way is State government and private partnership.......

Not exactly. If you see, for Chennai, Bangalore and various other Metro Rails, CG's funding is on par with SG. If that is the case Metro projects are carried out only in specific cities, then how is it going to benefit the rest of the state? So CG will not think that way..it will fund any project that it thinks is important to the city, state and the country. What matters is whether it benefits the people or not!! Certainly HSR would benefit people if the tickets are priced well :)

deleted as posted twice

^^


Where will money come from ?

TamilNadu announced 1,oo,ooo crore budget for 2011-12

TamilNadu exports 40,000 cores in IT, ITES for 2010-11

10,000 crore for shipping industry

22,500 crores for power industry

912 crore for laptops only

TamilNadu taxrevenue is 2,73,424 crore

TamilNadu is the most industrialised state in India

So we have potential to execute big projects with PPP patnerships.....:)

As mentioned early, PPP project means there will be a private investor who will be putting some crores of money and State government some crores and apart from that we can go for Japan soft loan also...

Japan soft loan terms for Indian project, sample terms from some news:
*****************
As regards the rate of interest, the Japanese official said the standard rate for India is 1.4 percent. 'I hope the new loan will also come at this rate with a repayment period of 30 years and a grace of 10 years.'

Yuichiro said Japan may also make available two other options -- one, an interest rate of 0.80 percent, with repayment period of 20 years and grace period six years; and, two, a rate of 0.70 percent, with repayment period 15 years and grace period of five years.
******************

SO to attract these PPP investors and Soft loan we need to do feasibility study with international consultants, we can go for consultants who are already doing consultantcy for Chennai-Banglare(Mysore)-Coimbatore-Thiruvanathapuram,

If we start our feasibility study now it will take minimum 5 years to start the construction work and we can complete only by 2025........... all big infrastructure project will take many years but if it PPP, state governement then we can finish within stipulated time.

If IR, Chennai- Mumbai doubling approved some 30 years back still not completed and same will be the case for Chennai-Madurai doubling so if we start now we can beat Chennai- Madurai doubling by IR.

What we need now is, a feasibility study...............

Not exactly. If you see, for Chennai, Bangalore and various other Metro Rails, CG's funding is on par with SG. If that is the case Metro projects are carried out only in specific cities, then how is it going to benefit the rest of the state? So CG will not think that way..it will fund any project that it thinks is important to the city, state and the country. What matters is whether it benefits the people or not!! Certainly HSR would benefit people if the tickets are priced well :)

Yes i completely agree with u but what You have mentioned is ideal situation, but that is not the case with indian railways and Central Government.... I can quote number of examples for that,

I don't know if this has been mentioned. We need a Bus Rapid Transit System too for Coimbatore.

Those are very nice points put forth.. But I don't see Point no. 6 happening ever in my lifetime! And I dont think that is needed to be implemented as well. There are level crossings all over the world. When I was in Texas I noticed a few level crossings which were unmanned, no gates but just traffic signals in place. And people follow that so strictly. Because they are educated about their safety.

No point in comparing Texas with Indian condition.. What about density? how many villages enroute? how many village roads criss cross the tracks?how many poor people live near tracks en route? Both are way different.

FYKI when Delhi-Agra line was upgraded for 180KMPH MPS, the line was almost fenced and every LC was replaced with flyover/subways.

Railways would definitely respond that they are ready for converting all Level crossings into Subways/ROBs, but all that depends on the Highways Dept and specific state governments.

yes! but when you (means ministry) sets mission it can be completed. IR can learn from NHAI for project execution.. both are under same parent, my one ministry executed 4-lane roads to lenght and breadth in a decade, if such vision is there for railways by this time IR might have reached new levels.


Ok, even if HSRs get approved, constructing a Chennai-CBE or Chennai-MDU line would take at least 7 years (by DMRC/CMRL standards). That eats up this 2011-2020 decade. Train travel in India cant be this slow till 2020!!! So apart from focussing on HSRs we also need to focus on what best we can extract from whatever resources we currently have.

7yrs itself to early. This fantasy thread is for 2025.. all tier II cities and important dt HQ from state capital should be just less than 3hrs. ;)

speed upgradation for existing tracks are separate which IR needs to execute. But HSR should be state, center, private model.

I saw in Indian Railways write-up that all Rajdhani express coaches are getting upgraded to Stainless steel coches which can withstand speeds upto 200KMPH. Also, the Bhopal-Delhi Rajdhani has a top speed of 160KMPH already!! So why don't we push for increase in speed and priority in signals for Duronto express trains? That will bring the travel time for Chennai-CBE from the current 6.5 hours to less than 5 hours. And Chennai-MDU from the current 9 hours to less than 6 hours.

It will take 10years for such coaches to reach south. FYKI Chennai-CBE duranto is introduced because some shatabdhi train in north got new rakes, so old rakes were pushed down. Even Madurai is waiting for the same! Some old Rajdhani rake is going to reach down south. So we can stop dreaming about stainless coaches for now as I said above it will take good 10yrs to reach down south.


The glaring defect of planning in Duronto Express is that, top speed of a Duronto cant be more than 110KMPH, while Rajdhani has very few stops but can touch speeds of upto 130KMPH. Then why do we need Duronto in the first place?!!!? If Duronto was an improvised version of Rajdhani, it should have possessed whatever facilities and technicalities that Rajdhani already had plus some more extra points (like Point A to B stops, free water bottle, etc.)

There is no such rule that duranto will touch 110KMPH, Rajdhani will touch 130KMPH... even ordinary super fast express will touch 110, 120KMPH.. the speed is purely based on traffic before block station, speed restriction on tracks, signalling etc.,

To make it more simple, we cannot achieve any magic 100KMPH average speed(end to end) for trains in India with current setup. Even the Bhopal shathabdi is just doing 89KMPH average speed! We cannot expect every train to have such priority. At most we can expect 6hours for a non stop train b.w Chennai and Coimbatore/Madurai (after entire doubling) and not less than that. But even to achieve this 6hours, many things needs to be done in operation wise because signalling/congestion will make 6hrs is not achievable.

Having said all this, 6hrs ellam semi speed train kooda illinga.. atleast 150-200 average speed vanthathan athu semi speed. For this 150-200KMPH avg speed those 6 points which I have mentioned needs to be done and it will cost 5 crores per KM for upgradation.. so it will be 1000crores project for CBE and Madurai each.. but for this IR needs to do! IR's star routes are Mumbai-Delhi-Howrah so first such projects will be done there and such vision will reach TN side by 2025 and 2035 we have semi HSR. Athukula congestion on tracks might have reached hype saturation.

So it is better to plan green field new lines and have it completed before 2025.:)

"In France, the cost of construction (which was €10 million/km (US$15.1 million/km) for LGV "

Can HSR be done at Rs 160 crores per Km like Chennai Metro? Rs 1,28,000 Crores for a line from Chennai to KK!! Realy a fantasy!

Let us plan to make the second line under construction fit for a HSR. May be cost effective.

It will cost 100crores per KM. Take a common route for western and southern TN in north TN, so total KM would come down to 850KM and which will cost 85,000crores with cost escalation we can round it to 1,00,000crores.

Consider this as 12yrs investment! It will be hardly 8300crores per year.

30% SG investment from tax revenue, 30% CG investment, 20% bank loan and 20% by private/infra bonds etc.,

2490crores SG, 2490crores CG, 1660crores bank loan, 1660 crores from infra bonds.

I feel it should be feasible ;)

It will cost 100crores per KM. Take a common route for western and southern TN in north TN, so total KM would come down to 850KM and which will cost 85,000crores with cost escalation we can round it to 1,00,000crores.

Consider this as 12yrs investment! It will be hardly 8300crores per year.

30% SG investment from tax revenue, 30% CG investment, 20% bank loan and 20% by private/infra bonds etc.,

2490crores SG, 2490crores CG, 1660crores bank loan, 1660 crores from infra bonds.

I feel it should be feasible ;)

I am curious.. How did you come at 850 Km figure? Chennai to Kanyakumari would be around 700 km (dist by train is 750 but that is a little convoluted). If you take common route of 200 km with western line (upto Ulundurpet or little south of it), then the total distance (Chennai to Kk + Chennai to Cbe) would be roughly 1000 km.

If the govt decides to do it with Japanese assistance, then they may be willing to provide loans for upto 85% of project cost at very low interest rates. So SG need to secure only something around 15K crores which is very easy over a period of say 5 years. Even CG assistance wont be necessary. Further it will immensely improve the image of the govt. Once Kerala goes ahead with its HSR, then the Cbe stretch can be extended upto Thrissur (hardly 70 km) and the missing connectivity from Kk to TVM completed (another 70 km). These two can be done on a cost sharing basis with Kerala.

But the bigger question is whether the cost will be only 100 crore per km?? I think this 100 crore per km is kind of a rosy picture and will be much higher. It will be highly variable but suppose it costs something like 200 or 250 crores per km, then the system will become a white elephant.

All these considerations should be taken in before embarking on the project.

^^

850KM is till Tuti/Nellai mid point.. It should be 930 if it needs to touch Nagercoil.:) We have a shorter route from CBE to Chennai which is almost equal distance to Madurai too.

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Beijing-Shanghai 350KMPH HSR cost was 120crore rupees per KM. And it is 86% elevated(i.e 1140KM elevated) and have 22 tunnels and also mega bridge with 6 railway tracks on Yangtze river. But I don't think we need completely elevated for TN's case. It may be 50% elevated and 50% on ground level, one tunnel and two quiet small bridges on Cauvery.:) So IMHO 100crores per KM would be more than sufficient.:)

^^ Arul neenga matum IAS padichirundheenga na State Revenue Planning division la irundhirukkalaam.. Seriously the way you project the plans are awesome.. :)

^^ Arul neenga matum IAS padichirundheenga na State Revenue Planning division la irundhirukkalaam.. Seriously the way you project the plans are awesome.. :)
I'm on that route.
If I ever become na, Arul will get daily calls from me.

^^ Arul neenga matum IAS padichirundheenga na State Revenue Planning division la irundhirukkalaam.. Seriously the way you project the plans are awesome.. :)

sir neenga vera, ssc la irukura ellarum IAS aga vendiyavanga thapi thavari vera edathuku poyitanga. :)

b/w I really don't know whether the project execution/fund allocation style which posted there is feasible.:lol: but have much positive hope that by 2025, there would be definetly need of such HSR.

Arul can still prepare for IAS exams.. Arul, Plz do that!

I'm on that route.
If I ever become na, Arul will get daily calls from me.


My best wishes to you!! :)

but have much positive hope that by 2025, there would be definetly need of such HSR.


Need is there even today.. Let's hope we have concrete plans for HSR by 2015, and dream it is in service by 2025.. :)

Shyam,

Just take it distance quoted by arul are perfect. :)

^^

850KM is till Tuti/Nellai mid point.. It should be 930 if it needs to touch Nagercoil.:) We have a shorter route from CBE to Chennai which is almost equal distance to Madurai too.

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Beijing-Shanghai 350KMPH HSR cost was 120crore rupees per KM. And it is 86% elevated(i.e 1140KM elevated) and have 22 tunnels and also mega bridge with 6 railway tracks on Yangtze river. But I don't think we need completely elevated for TN's case. It may be 50% elevated and 50% on ground level, one tunnel and two quiet small bridges on Cauvery.:) So IMHO 100crores per KM would be more than sufficient.:)

Yeah but Chinese brazenly stole European and Japanese tech. I dont think we can do that. Anyway it was just a caveat from my part. I didnt mean that it would end up costing 200 to 250 crore per km. If it is 100 cr/km (or less), well and good.. SG can seriously consider the project. It is definitely feasible even right now.

Shyam,

Just take it distance quoted by arul are perfect. :)

I know.. I know him right from the days of Orkut and he is very meticulous with these kind of details. Anyway I think he arrives at 930 km which is different from my 1000 km because

1. He is considering Nagercoil and I am taking Kk. So there is a diff of around 20 km.

2. I think he is taking a straight route from Trichy to Mdu whereas I go through Dindugal (the current train route) which adds another 50 km. I did this because it will be easier to lay a line along NH 7 connecting Madurai to Salem and onwards to Hosur/Blr at a later date. This will connect the southern and western districts (and kerala) to Bangalore.

So diff of 20 + 50 = 70 km (his estimate is 930 and mine 1000).

With the current financial suitation present Govt will not think about the Semi or full hsr. May be a quater HSR can be possible.

As far as I know...

Double HSR -> 581kmph (Maglev)
Full HSR -> 360-400 kmph (Shinkansen)
Semi HSR -> upto 260kmph (Some parts of Shinkansen)

So Quarter HSR should be at least speeds upto 200kmph. Is that what you mean Arun? :)

When will we see this happening in India??? :nuts:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/JR_East_Shinkansen_lineup_at_Niigata_Depot_200910.jpg

So Quarter HSR should be at least speeds upto 200kmph. Is that what you mean Arun? :)


TASMAC'la quarter adichittu kattavandila pona kooda parakura madhiri theriyum. Adhu than tamizhanoda quarter HSR :lol:

On a serious note, does the terminology "double/quarter/half HSR" really exist?

Post from CHennai Metro
Why not extension of metro till Tambaram not taken into consideration?????Upto Airport looks half balked.....I guess passangers are more in Pallavaram,chrompet,sanatorium and Tambaram....It'll be really helpful for passengers and then the suburban train frequencies must be added for tam-CGL line

Reply to this post

There is no need for Metro or monorail parallel to any suburban network, Becuase we can use existing infrastructure just add 3 AC Wagon in all the suburban train in all the stretch which is more than enough this has to be done with the Chennai metro implementation, based on demand we can add more further... Hopefully CMRL talk to Indian railways regarding this.............Fare structure for AC wagon can be planned separately by IR and CMRL and shared accordingly...


Sorry i am not able to post in Chennai metro so i am posting here, can someone post this in Chennai metro thread.... sorry for the inconvenience caused....

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/industry-and-economy/logistics/article2665772.ece

What is the cost per km of building a high-speed rail system?
For building tracks, the average cost is €15 million per km. But the cost varies depending upon the terrain. For mountainous regions, the cost could go up to €30 million per km.
For the rolling stock, a basic train set with eight-ten cars could cost €15 million. But the train sets with advanced features cost more, and a double-decker train set could cost up to €30 million.


15 million Euro = 104 crore


so Chennai - KanyaKumari 700 km is 72800,(I believe TamilNadu terrain is very much flat) and each HSR train cost 100 crore so 20 train means 2000 crore so anyway we can complete within 75000 crore....


Which is enough for Whole TamilNadu assuming Chennai Coimbatore will be completed as planning


Planning Takes 5 years... Construction 5 years... So within 14 to 15 years we can complete so we can target 2025...

Indha thread yaarum use pandradhu illaya?

^^ firstu ancient age technology transportation kidaikattum appuram futurekku povom :)

If this thread title reflecting duplicate, moderator has to move or delete it.

First we should have proper trains and stations