http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=381071

Sources tell TSN that Graeme Roustan, the chairman of the hockey equipment company, Bauer, who also moonlights as an arena builder, and Toronto-area land developer Rudy Bratty, ranked in 2010 by Canadian Business Magazine as the 62nd richest man in Canada with a net worth of $940 million, are working together in a massive real estate venture that includes a 19,500-seat facility that they hope will be built regardless of the NHL interest, or lack thereof, in southern Ontario.

The project is located a slapshot away from where Tampa Bay Lightning superstar Steven Stamkos grew up in Unionville, or the western part of the town of Markham that is situated on the northeast border of Metro Toronto.

The arena would be built on a tract of land owned by Bratty, just west of the existing GO Transit train station in Unionville, and just north of Highway 407, but would be part of a much larger sports and entertainment complex, not unlike the Staples Center and L.A. Live entertainment block in Los Angeles. And all of that would be just one element of what's known as the Bratty-inspired Markham Centre, a $3 billion , 900-plus acre high-density residential, commercial and retail development that is part of the official plan of the town.

Waste of money, NHL team will never come to Markham or Hamilton for that matter. Leafs make sure of that.

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae29/htpwn/Picture10-2.png
Location in comparison to Downtown Toronto.

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae29/htpwn/Picture13-2.png
I think this is the site, but am only working off the limited information McKenzie reported. It could be further south of here, adjacent to the railway tracks.

http://a.yfrog.com/img857/7581/6s6zq.jpg
Early render from UT.

Waste of money, NHL team will never come to Markham or Hamilton for that matter. Leafs make sure of that.

I agree the Leafs (MLSE.) won't let it happen but I do think an NHL. team will eventully come to southern ontario but not Hamilton or the GTA. the team would play in southwestern Ontario like London , Kitchener or Aldershot & would be called Ontario ?????????? & play in Hamilton whille a new arena is being bulit in one of thoses cities . Some people in the GTA. don't get it that the greatest unserved NHL. market in North America is southwestern Ontario ( Hamilton , London , Kitchener , Brantford ect. ) not the GTA. (Toronto) Toronto only wants 2nd team is to inflate there ego & to try to be on the same level as an Los Angeles or New York in which they will never be .

I agree the Leafs (MLSE.) won't let it happen but I do think an NHL. team will eventully come to southern ontario but not Hamilton or the GTA. the team would play in southwestern Ontario like London , Kitchener or Aldershot & would be called Ontario ?????????? & play in Hamilton whille a new arena is being bulit in one of thoses cities . Some people in the GTA. don't get it that the greatest unserved NHL. market in North America is southwestern Ontario ( Hamilton , London , Kitchener , Brantford ect. ) not the GTA. (Toronto) Toronto only wants 2nd team is to inflate there ego & to try to be on the same level as an Los Angeles or New York in which they will never be .

As Victor Newman(The Y & The R) might say: 'You little man! You know nothing of hockey!"

Hockey works as an industry. The NHL is acutely aware of the teams that provide it with its young talent, and a key component of that development system is the Ontario Hockey League.

A team in Hamilton, Kitchener or anywhere else in the western hinterlands of the GTA would have a seriously detrimental effect on junior hockey clubs in Mississauga, Brampton, Guelph, Kitchener, St. Catharines and possibly even London. That's a quarter of the OHL that would feel serious economic impact from a pro team. Some might go out of business.

Hockey doesn't work that way.

A second pro team in the Toronto area would be far less harmful to the junior clubs, even one in the Markham area where no junior club exists, but where a clear appetite exists for more hockey.

When the Mississauga Ice Dogs were to be moved a few years back by interim owner Eugene Melnyk so he could move St. Mike's Majors into the Mississauga Hershey Centre arena, his initial destination was Newmarket. The Barrie Colts owner, Howie Campbell, blocked that.

Since then, there's been numerous rumours that Campbell was selling his Barrie ownership in order to be able to acquire a relocated OHL franchise in the area. The word was that a new 6,000-ish arena would be built and that the likely site was Aurora, with the Stronach family involved in the land deal.

This new deal completely trumps the smaller project and might even prove to be a home for a junior team until a NHL team arrives and, even then, they might work out as co-tenants. Bauer would certainly be able to work with that.

Rudy Bratty's involvement is the crucial aspect to this deal. He's been a huge player in building the many sub-divisions springing up across the northern 905 region. This arena deal would likely only serve as a spearhead for much more extensive commercial and residential development on land he and his associates already own or have a stake in.

It would also provide impetus to the provincial government to improve commuter rail service to Toronto's northeast in the same way that is now planned to the northwest corridor up to Barrie as well as justify making the current toll road of Highway 407 a fully free-access public highway in order to broaden its use.

There's a lot of reasons why this arena deal has legs. Not one of them has anything to do with some perceived whack notion that Toronto collectively 'wants' a second NHL team to big itself up in regards to other cities.

What The Hammer will get in the near future is its own OHL franchise. The Montreal Canadiens want to do what many NHL clubs are now doing and move its American League farm team closer to the big club. A lot of speculation about where that team would be housed(Laval, Verdun, Trois Riv., etc.).

That would leave Copps Coliseum(The Sheepdogs SO rocked that place on Saturday night) open for the relocation of an OHL club. Might even see a nearby rival move in as well if plans take hold to build a new arena in nearby Burlington or Oakville. That would make for a lot more entertaining and involving hockey scene than watching 20 NHL could-be's going through the motions most nights.

Alright, bud, you're up to date now and you're welcome.

I agree the Leafs (MLSE.) won't let it happen but I do think an NHL. team will eventully come to southern ontario but not Hamilton or the GTA. the team would play in southwestern Ontario like London , Kitchener or Aldershot & would be called Ontario ?????????? & play in Hamilton whille a new arena is being bulit in one of thoses cities . Some people in the GTA. don't get it that the greatest unserved NHL. market in North America is southwestern Ontario ( Hamilton , London , Kitchener , Brantford ect. ) not the GTA. (Toronto) Toronto only wants 2nd team is to inflate there ego & to try to be on the same level as an Los Angeles or New York in which they will never be .
Are you the same JMROwe on HFboard?

Honestly I dont think anyone who owns the Leafs will ever allow any team in Southern Ontario.

If it does get built, it will be a part of a Toronto 2024 Olympics bid, even if it's not ideally downtown.

Honestly I dont think anyone who owns the Leafs will ever allow any team in Southern Ontario.
While I understand where that is coming from I don't see what gives MLSE the entitlement to this market. Every city in the world where a certain sport is a hotbed multiple sports teams exist. It just make sense the hottest market for hockey on the planet with a regional population in excess of 7 million people only has 1 pro sports team. It doesn't take a genius to figure out collusion of some sort is going on and a monopoly against the principles of a competitive market. How is not the NHL and MLSE taken to court already.

Its their legal rights as a the sole owner of the territory which makes sense. They were their first so to speak.

As Victor Newman(The Y & The R) might say: 'You little man! You know nothing of hockey!"

Hockey works as an industry. The NHL is acutely aware of the teams that provide it with its young talent, and a key component of that development system is the Ontario Hockey League.

A team in Hamilton, Kitchener or anywhere else in the western hinterlands of the GTA would have a seriously detrimental effect on junior hockey clubs in Mississauga, Brampton, Guelph, Kitchener, St. Catharines and possibly even London. That's a quarter of the OHL that would feel serious economic impact from a pro team. Some might go out of business.

Hockey doesn't work that way.

A second pro team in the Toronto area would be far less harmful to the junior clubs, even one in the Markham area where no junior club exists, but where a clear appetite exists for more hockey.

When the Mississauga Ice Dogs were to be moved a few years back by interim owner Eugene Melnyk so he could move St. Mike's Majors into the Mississauga Hershey Centre arena, his initial destination was Newmarket. The Barrie Colts owner, Howie Campbell, blocked that.

Since then, there's been numerous rumours that Campbell was selling his Barrie ownership in order to be able to acquire a relocated OHL franchise in the area. The word was that a new 6,000-ish arena would be built and that the likely site was Aurora, with the Stronach family involved in the land deal.

This new deal completely trumps the smaller project and might even prove to be a home for a junior team until a NHL team arrives and, even then, they might work out as co-tenants. Bauer would certainly be able to work with that.

Rudy Bratty's involvement is the crucial aspect to this deal. He's been a huge player in building the many sub-divisions springing up across the northern 905 region. This arena deal would likely only serve as a spearhead for much more extensive commercial and residential development on land he and his associates already own or have a stake in.

It would also provide impetus to the provincial government to improve commuter rail service to Toronto's northeast in the same way that is now planned to the northwest corridor up to Barrie as well as justify making the current toll road of Highway 407 a fully free-access public highway in order to broaden its use.

There's a lot of reasons why this arena deal has legs. Not one of them has anything to do with some perceived whack notion that Toronto collectively 'wants' a second NHL team to big itself up in regards to other cities.

What The Hammer will get in the near future is its own OHL franchise. The Montreal Canadiens want to do what many NHL clubs are now doing and move its American League farm team closer to the big club. A lot of speculation about where that team would be housed(Laval, Verdun, Trois Riv., etc.).

That would leave Copps Coliseum(The Sheepdogs SO rocked that place on Saturday night) open for the relocation of an OHL club. Might even see a nearby rival move in as well if plans take hold to build a new arena in nearby Burlington or Oakville. That would make for a lot more entertaining and involving hockey scene than watching 20 NHL could-be's going through the motions most nights.

Alright, bud, you're up to date now and you're welcome.

Thats slap in the face & kick to the groin at the same time Hamilton is city of over 700,000 people & has access to over 6 million people in the surounding areas in SW. Ontario & is not I & I repeate not an Minor\Junior league city to even suguest such a thing is insulting none the least but I expect that from sombody that is probley from Toronto or the states . Hamilton is a major league city in Canada not a minor\junior league city & we are far more deserving NHL. franchise than Toronto is 2nd or should I say 3rd yes 3rd I included the marlies & to say the OHL would be efected by an NHL. team in SW. Ontario is nonsense . :bash:

Its their legal rights as a the sole owner of the territory which makes sense. They were their first so to speak.

Cry me a river on that argument. Were not the Rangers there 1st before the Islanders and the Devils, or how about the Kings before the Ducks, the Knicks before the Nets, the Lakers before the Clippers and on and on.
Its not unprecedented for a city two have more than 1 team in a league.

First of all, NHL doesnt have to let Markham get an NHL team or anywhere else in Toronto metro area plus Hamilton. Its not anyones right to get a NHL team.

Second of all, Leafs have big say in NHL. They are one of 30 owners (MLSE I mean) who run the league.

First of all, NHL doesnt have to let Markham get an NHL team or anywhere else in Toronto metro area plus Hamilton. Its not anyones right to get a NHL team.

Second of all, Leafs have big say in NHL. They are one of 30 owners (MLSE I mean) who run the league.

I'm not saying the new team has a right. But the NHL has a right to service the market properly, and a single team doesn't do that here. Look at the Rangers, Lakers, or whoever. Despite those teams/owners say a second and even a 3rd team moved into the market. There is enough wealth to spread and doesn't nor shouldn't be hoarded by 1!!!!!!!!!

They are being served, Toronto Maple Leafs, enough said.

delete.

Why should a new arena be built in Markham?

Why should a new arena be built in Markham?

I agree money is going to be the to be a major issue there is just not enough of it to build another world class arena for 300 million in Toronto (GTA.) area & won't get off the table just like the idea to build in Vaughan\Downview . If anybody wants to build a new arena in southern Ontario they should build it in Hamilton why because we also have land in & around the Hamilton area that is ripe for develoment such as the old west harbour site that was going to be used for the new stadium why not build an arena there or they can just do the cheap thing & renovate Copps Coliseum & get another 40 years out of that arena . Not to mention Hamilton is the best place in which to invest in in Ontario & a world class arena can easly be built there for 300 million $ .

I agree the Leafs (MLSE.) won't let it happen but I do think an NHL. team will eventully come to southern ontario but not Hamilton or the GTA. the team would play in southwestern Ontario like London , Kitchener or Aldershot & would be called Ontario ?????????? & play in Hamilton whille a new arena is being bulit in one of thoses cities . Some people in the GTA. don't get it that the greatest unserved NHL. market in North America is southwestern Ontario ( Hamilton , London , Kitchener , Brantford ect. ) not the GTA. (Toronto) Toronto only wants 2nd team is to inflate there ego & to try to be on the same level as an Los Angeles or New York in which they will never be .

First of all, Aldershot is an area in Burlington, which is part of the GTA. It literally could not be more sandwiched between Hamilton and the rest of the GTA. So you kind of contradicted yourself there, in the first two sentences of your post.

Also, most people who want a second NHL team in the Toronto area cite reasons that have nothing to do with ego. They see the biggest hockey market in the world, with the most valuable money-making franchise in the league having only one team. Many other large markets throughout sports have 2 or more pro teams of the same sport in large markets where that sport is popular, and it works from an economic standpoint.

From what I've seen, people who want a second team in Toronto are usually thinking about it from a business standpoint. I haven't seen anyone that came across as wanting another team here to make Toronto more like LA or NY.

Get over this Hamilton nonsense. It's not going to happen. Ever.

It's not just the Leafs involved in this. The Buffalo Sabres are a well-established, well-run franchise held in high regard by fellow owners. They're not about to stick a new hockey club 45 minutes away that would put the Sabres in jeopardy. Just like they aren't about to disrupt junior franchises that help to provide fresh talent to the league.

A second club in southern Ontario will only go to the GTA, be it a second franchise playing out of the Air Canada Centre, or in the suburbs.

But if you were paying attention to recent reports as Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment was being sold, you might have heard concrete king Larry Tanenbaum, the 25% owner and league(NHL) governor of MLSE being asked about the possibility of a second Toronto NHL team. His response:

'Not in my lifetime'. I believe him.

Get over this Hamilton nonsense. It's not going to happen. Ever.

It's not just the Leafs involved in this. The Buffalo Sabres are a well-established, well-run franchise held in high regard by fellow owners. They're not about to stick a new hockey club 45 minutes away that would put the Sabres in jeopardy. Just like they aren't about to disrupt junior franchises that help to provide fresh talent to the league.

A second club in southern Ontario will only go to the GTA, be it a second franchise playing out of the Air Canada Centre, or in the suburbs.

But if you were paying attention to recent reports as Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment was being sold, you might have heard concrete king Larry Tanenbaum, the 25% owner and league(NHL) governor of MLSE being asked about the possibility of a second Toronto NHL team. His response:

'Not in my lifetime'. I believe him.

There will never be 2nd team in Toronto or the GTA. because one MLSE. will never let it happen two the total cost of bring a 2nd team to toronto would be around the billion dollars maybe more & that is just to much money for a hockey team . My opinion is that there will be a 2nd NHL. team in southern ontario but not in the GTA. most likely ethier Hamilton , Kitchener , London would get the NHL. team because Hamilton & the southwestern ontario market is the largest unserved NHL. market in north america & if there was 2nd team put in Toronto seriously doubt anyone the Hamilton & southwestern ontario would support it . The thing is a Team in the Hamilton southwestern area would benefit the entire area & just not one city whille a 2nd team in Toronto would benefit Toronto & no one else . Toronto is the most hated city in Canada because of there I am better than you attitude towards every one else what I am trying to say is Toronto gets a 2nd NHL. team & 3rd overall over Hamilton & southwestern ontario Toronto would be more hated & dose Toronto need to be more hated in this economy my answer is no .

Get over this Hamilton nonsense. It's not going to happen. Ever.

It's not just the Leafs involved in this. The Buffalo Sabres are a well-established, well-run franchise held in high regard by fellow owners. They're not about to stick a new hockey club 45 minutes away that would put the Sabres in jeopardy. Just like they aren't about to disrupt junior franchises that help to provide fresh talent to the league.

Is there any public data on the Sabres' fanbase in the Hamilton/Niagara region? I don't buy it that they're dependent on border-crossers to stay afloat. I lived in St. Catharines for 5 years and never met a Sabres fan. Tons of Leafs and Habs fans and most at least casually followed the Niagara Icedogs.

Yes, there's plenty out there and it's a substantial percentage of Sabres ticket sales. But it can't be released on this thread because this one iis about a proposed Markham project.

MIght I suggest a new thread for the new Hamilton arena and NHL franchise fantasizers.

Yes, there's plenty out there and it's a substantial percentage of Sabres ticket sales. But it can't be released on this thread because this one iis about a proposed Markham project.

MIght I suggest a new thread for the new Hamilton arena and NHL franchise fantasizers.

You must be from Toronto because only someone from Toronto would support the idea of 2nd NHL. team in Toronto over the Hamilton southwestern ontario area . I say the idea of 2nd NHL. team in Toronto is pure fantasy do to the fact that MLSE. would never allow it to happen & the total cost to bring a 2nd NHL. team to Toronto (GTA.) would be in excess over a billion dollars .

MLSE wont allow Hamilton neither.

No another team in Southern Ontario for a while.

You must be from Toronto because only someone from Toronto would support the idea of 2nd NHL. team in Toronto over the Hamilton southwestern ontario area . I say the idea of 2nd NHL. team in Toronto is pure fantasy do to the fact that MLSE. would never allow it to happen & the total cost to bring a 2nd NHL. team to Toronto (GTA.) would be in excess over a billion dollars .

I just live in the real world. Come join us.

If a team in Hamilton made sense, it would have already happened. Years ago.

Copps Coliseum can be upgraded and expanded. There were schematic drawings and graphics of the possible changes in the arena supervisor's office in back of the Zamboni gate. Years ago.

Not only has the NHL protected and respected existing franchises in Toronto and Buffalo, it's also very aware of impending changes to the hockey arena landscape in nearby junior centres that would be negatively affected by a NHL franchise in your dream site.

St. Catharines council just approved a new 5,000-seat project to house the Niagara Ice Dogs. Kitchener is adding an upper deck onto it's venerable Aud, raising capacity by 1,000 to near 8,000 to watch the popular Rangers team. Despite rumours about franchise movement, the word is that the Misssissauga Majors will be sold by owner Evegeni Melnykov (owns Ottawa Senators, too) to a local buyer who plans to keep the team at the recently upgraded Hershey Centre.

Add in on-going care and concern for junior clubs in nearby Guelph and Brampton who have put many players into the NHL recently and there's no chance the NHL will pull apart the well-woven fabric of the game in SW Ontario by putting a team in Hamilton or Kitchener or Acton.

A second team in the greater Toronto area would create far less harm. But given the sale of the Leafs parent firm late last week, that possibility has diminished significantly in the short term.

I just live in the real world. Come join us.

If a team in Hamilton made sense, it would have already happened. Years ago.

Copps Coliseum can be upgraded and expanded. There were schematic drawings and graphics of the possible changes in the arena supervisor's office in back of the Zamboni gate. Years ago.

Not only has the NHL protected and respected existing franchises in Toronto and Buffalo, it's also very aware of impending changes to the hockey arena landscape in nearby junior centres that would be negatively affected by a NHL franchise in your dream site.

St. Catharines council just approved a new 5,000-seat project to house the Niagara Ice Dogs. Kitchener is adding an upper deck onto it's venerable Aud, raising capacity by 1,000 to near 8,000 to watch the popular Rangers team. Despite rumours about franchise movement, the word is that the Misssissauga Majors will be sold by owner Evegeni Melnykov (owns Ottawa Senators, too) to a local buyer who plans to keep the team at the recently upgraded Hershey Centre.

Add in on-going care and concern for junior clubs in nearby Guelph and Brampton who have put many players into the NHL recently and there's no chance the NHL will pull apart the well-woven fabric of the game in SW Ontario by putting a team in Hamilton or Kitchener or Acton.

A second team in the greater Toronto area would create far less harm. But given the sale of the Leafs parent firm late last week, that possibility has diminished significantly in the short term.

The Toronto area is already an over crowed sports market as it is with 7 pro teams & several minor league teams & they don't need an 8th pro team .

To say that a team in Hamilton \ southwestern ontario area would hurt OHL. teams in the area is stupid because the fact is there are a hell of a lot more OHL. teams in the GTA. than there is in Hamilton\southwestern ontario area & thoses teams in the GTA, will suffer if there is a 2nd team in Toronto & thoses in the Hamilton area \southwestwern ontario areas would have little or no impact on thoses teams .

MLSE. would block any move to try to bring a 2nd NHL. team to Toronto & if MLSE. had choice of 2nd team in Toronto or a team in Hamilton \ southwestern ontario who do you think they would choose Hamilton \ southwestern ontario because it would have least impact on there bottom line both for hockey & non hockey events . As for the sabers they really don't have a say in this for one there so called territory in southern ontario only strechs to about grimsby if that & I doubt a team in Hamilton would impact the sabers at all do to hassal at the border & the sabers have a waiting list for season tickets just like the leafs & just like the leafs they sell out every games & single tickets are hard to come buy & not mention the sabers do not advertise or televise there games in Hamilton .

Lets face it. No NHL player wants to live in Hamilton.

^Same goes for Winnipeg though. They got a team.

looks like this has an excellent chance of going ahead !!

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=393531

Love the wording -Roustan the chairman of the hockey equipment company, Bauer, who also moonlights as an arena builder- Has if he puts down the hockey stick at 17:30 and goes home then starts playing around with CAD's and thinking about sightlines.

You must be from Toronto because only someone from Toronto would support the idea of 2nd NHL. team in Toronto over the Hamilton southwestern ontario area . I say the idea of 2nd NHL. team in Toronto is pure fantasy do to the fact that MLSE. would never allow it to happen & the total cost to bring a 2nd NHL. team to Toronto (GTA.) would be in excess over a billion dollars .

Why bring a NHL team to a 500,000 people city?
Just saying...
I am not from the area but a second team in Toronto makes sense. It is such a huge untapped market....

Why bring a NHL team to a 500,000 people city?
Just saying...
I am not from the area but a second team in Toronto makes sense. It is such a huge untapped market....

Hamilton pop. is actully 721,053 & is in a centralized location that has access to 8 million people from Niagara , southwestern ontario , GTA. & the Kitchener\Waterloo area whille Markham only has access just to the GTA. which is an already taped NHL. market that would be difficult for people to get to outside of the GTA. because it is not a centralized location .

Hamilton pop. is actully 721,053 & is in a centralized location that has access to 8 million people from Niagara , southwestern ontario , GTA. & the Kitchener\Waterloo area whille Markham only has access just to the GTA. which is an already taped NHL. market that would be difficult for people to get to outside of the GTA. because it is not a centralized location .

What you've been smoking? I want some :))


Hamilton has a population of 500k, 700k with the suburbs. There is no way in hell southwestern Ontario has that population if we don't count the GTA in the mix. The entire population of Ontario is roughly 12 milion.... Hamilton is an industrial city that is a feeder for Toronto. It's pretty much a suburb of that huge metropolis.... Living in New York City, it is like comparing it to Newark.

So if MLSE decides to bring a second team to south ontario, i would only hope they do the wise thing and put it in Toronto. Having 2 teams in New York is great! And only hope my canadian brethrens to the north will have two in their biggest cultural/economical/political city of their country Toronto. And not some feeder city that nobody even heard or cared of.

Living in New York City, it is like comparing it to Newark.

Well let's hope Newark never gets an NHL team.........

Well let's hope Newark never gets an NHL team.........
I see what you did there.

Yea New Jersey Devils should move, its impractical to have 3 teams in NYC metro area.

I would honestly prefer a team in Hamilton over a second team in Toronto or GTA. I think the residents of Hamilton will really get behind their team and start an immediate, intense rivalry with the Leafs where as I don't imagine that there will be such loyalty from the locals for a second Toronto team. People will definitely come to watch but you won't get the immediate diehards.

I would honestly prefer a team in Hamilton over a second team in Toronto or GTA. I think the residents of Hamilton will really get behind their team and start an immediate, intense rivalry with the Leafs where as I don't imagine that there will be such loyalty from the locals for a second Toronto team. People will definitely come to watch but you won't get the immediate diehards.

How about both. Not that I see it happening but it would work. The appetite for NHL tickets is off the charts. When Balsillie tried to hijack the predators he sold out the season ticket deposits in a day.

Should Hamilton get a team ? Yes
will they ? No*

* the only way Hamilton gets a team is the Sabres relocate there or the sabres move elsewhere out of WNY or fold.
I stated years ago... want a team in Hamilton ? stop going to sabres games !!

A team in Markham only impacts the Leafs who are maxed out revenue-wise but there is still plenty of revenue to be had for the NHL in Toronto. The only way for the NHL to get more money from the top hockey market in the world is to add another team.

I think this is probably why Bell & Rogers both bought the Leafs, knowing there will be another team in Toronto so they can equally share the market with their own teams.

Sabres have almost nothing to do with Hamilton not having a team.

MLSE. Enough said.

Hamilton has a population of 500k, 700k with the suburbs. There is no way in hell southwestern Ontario has that population if we don't count the GTA in the mix. The entire population of Ontario is roughly 12 milion.... Hamilton is an industrial city that is a feeder for Toronto. It's pretty much a suburb of that huge metropolis.... Living in New York City, it is like comparing it to Newark.

Trust me. Newark is no suburb of NYC. Newark has its own downtown, its own financial center, and its own identity.

Plus, Newark doesn't rely all that much on NYC for economic influence. At every Devils home game, the name "Newark" is mentioned, not "NYC".

I can't speak for Hamilton, though.

I see what you did there.

Yea New Jersey Devils should move, its impractical to have 3 teams in NYC metro area.

Uh, why? The Devils are a very successful hockey team, why would they want to move away from an area that gives them alot of money in support?

Plus, lets keep in mind people that this stadium will likely be used for other things instead of hockey; like conventions, concerts, auto shows, all that jazz. Quebec City is going to build they're arena despite knowing that the NHL won't re-locate a team there.

And not some feeder city that nobody even heard or cared of.

Hamilton is the Steel City and one of this country's greatest industrial cities. It's not exactly some small insignificant place no one has heard of. It's the same size as Quebec City or Winnipeg. Hamilton has as high a profile within Canada as Pittsburgh does within the US. If southern Ontario gets a 2nd NHL team, it must go to Hamilton.

Uh, why? The Devils are a very successful hockey team, why would they want to move away from an area that gives them alot of money in support?

Plus, lets keep in mind people that this stadium will likely be used for other things instead of hockey; like conventions, concerts, auto shows, all that jazz. Quebec City is going to build they're arena despite knowing that the NHL won't re-locate a team there.

The Devils are a financial disaster headed for bankruptcy this summer.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/crushed-by-their-debt-reports-say-devils-are-bankruptcy-bound?urn=nhl,wp16667

I disagree about Quebec. There's not much substance behind the supposed buyers of the Yotes. Greg Jamison says he still needs 1-2 months and doesn't have enough financial backers yet. Even if he got that all sorted out he needs to con another 25 million/year subsidy out of bankrupt Glendale who have made it clear that's not going to happen again. Then they would need to avert a legal challenge from the Goldwater institute. Highly unlikely.

The proposed NHL-ready arena in Markham Centre will be expedited to bring the 2015 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships to the GTA.

While councillors are still under confidentiality agreements not to talk about anything NHL-related, [Regional Councillor] Mr. Jones alluded that part of the intent to build an NHL-sized arena in Markham Centre is, in fact, to bring an NHL team to Markham.

“None of us are that stupid to build a 20,000-seat arena to just do what Kansas City does,” he said of the Sprint Center, a NHL-ready arena without a professional sports team.

http://www.yorkregion.com/news/artic...uniors-roustan

Sources said Mr. Roustan and Mr. Bratty are pushing to have their proposal expedited Thursday night — six days after the first public meeting last Friday — so they can submit an approved plan to an NHL meeting next week when discussion on the relocation of teams is initiated.
The rush isn’t to do with bringing the World Junior Ice Hockey Championships to Markham, sources indicated, contrary to statements made by Mr. Roustan last week.

http://www.yorkregion.com/news/article/1342864--confidential-report-details-markham-s-nhl-dreams


It looks like these guys are going to make a play for the Coyotes and give Quebec some competition.

If they buy the Coyotes, are they going to keep them in Glendale for a few years till this new arena is completed?

If they buy the Coyotes, are they going to keep them in Glendale for a few years till this new arena is completed?

Wow I doubt that... they'd be on the hook for 20-30 million losses every year. I can see them playing in Copps til the new one is ready. There has been a lot of speculation that the Bulldogs are leaving for Laval after this season, so it would make sense...

Will it be hard to move the yotes since they are in the second round of the play offs ?

Will it be hard to move the yotes since they are in the second round of the play offs ?

No. Frankly it wouldn't be hard to move them even if they won the Stanley Cup, unless some billionaire who likes losing money steps up.

Markham council approve a plan to borrow funds to build $162 million arena:

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1169089--markham-council-approves-massive-arena

Could be a fair few years yet before a team moves there, if one ever does, but Markham's a posh little place getting big in a hurry. The buzz this creates will drive Rudy Bratty's schemes to build scores more developments full of upscale homes and chic malls. The tax revenue eventually generated by what Bratty envisions will probably pay for the new barn in time.

And so what is probably the busiest construction area in North America gets a splashy new project. But this is also the best hockey market anywhere and massively underserved by the Leafs alone. A bold move but one that has a better chance of gaining a NHL team that another site that has to have two clubs approval to relocate.

Like, say, Hamilton. Here's the deal, Neil, on what's going on there.

The Erie Otters pushed hard for over a year to get a transfer to Copps Coliseum. They were denied and have signed a new two-year lease at their Tullio Arena, hardly a deterrent to an eventual move in a year's time. They were proposing to become temporary joint tenants at Copps with current minor pro team Hamilton Bulldogs, who are a farm team for Montreal Canadiens.

With the new arena being built in Laval - north suburban Montreal - the Bulldogs will transfer there once the arena is ready. Copps will be up for grabs, but the man who currently owns the Bulldogs, Michael Andlauer, also own all hockey rights at Copps. And he's a minority owner of Montreal Canadiens.

He has the option of replacing the Bulldogs with another American League operation or buying and transferring an existing OHL junior franchise(Erie, Brampton, probably not Mississauga who have just been sold and are staying). He's built a nice front office operation that is well tied in to the Hamilton community. If they opt for a junior franchise, the plan is to keep the administration team together, retain the Bulldogs identity and play in the OHL, where many owners - to say nothing of players' agents - would welcome a return to Hamilton, a city offering a convenient location, decent education facilities and the possibility of another lucrative Memorial Cup at Copps with it's 17,500 capacity. There's a very strong chance the OHL will eventually take over in Copps.

That's it, Hamilton. No NHL team at Copps. Ever. Cry all you want. Ain't happenin'. NuhUh.

The Devils are a financial disaster headed for bankruptcy this summer.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/crushed-by-their-debt-reports-say-devils-are-bankruptcy-bound?urn=nhl,wp16667



Even then, lets keep in mind that Nashville and Pittsburgh have went through periods like this, and they still got they're teams.

Even then, lets keep in mind that Nashville and Pittsburgh have went through periods like this, and they still got they're teams.

The circumstances aren't the same. Pittsburgh had legitimate excuses for its financial troubles. A terrible team and a terrible building. Both of those problems have been solved.

New Jersey has been consistently good and have one of the best arenas in the league yet still struggle financially.

It has more to do with being in New Jersey. A problem that has killed the Nets as well. You're an afterthought in a heavily crowded sports market. You're also looked down upon as being the ugly duckling across the river from New York.

The circumstances aren't the same. Pittsburgh had legitimate excuses for its financial troubles. A terrible team and a terrible building. Both of those problems have been solved.

New Jersey has been consistently good and have one of the best arenas in the league yet still struggle financially.

It has more to do with being in New Jersey. A problem that has killed the Nets as well. You're an afterthought in a heavily crowded sports market. You're also looked down upon as being the ugly duckling across the river from New York.

I would have figured that the Islanders were the ugly duckling XD. In any case I'm sure the Devils will be successful at where they are if they can successfully promote the team throughout the entire state and heavily advertise them. The Devils have a huge advantage over the Nets due to the fact that they have won the championship three times in the last 25 years; people love to go to the games of winning teams, especially when they have star players that keep helping them make the playoffs like Martin Brodeur

Uh, why? The Devils are a very successful hockey team, why would they want to move away from an area that gives them alot of money in support?

Plus, lets keep in mind people that this stadium will likely be used for other things instead of hockey; like conventions, concerts, auto shows, all that jazz. Quebec City is going to build they're arena despite knowing that the NHL won't re-locate a team there.
On ice success=/=off ice success

Even then, lets keep in mind that Nashville and Pittsburgh have went through periods like this, and they still got they're teams.

Neither have NBA teams (or baseball, do the Pirates count?:lol:) and Pittsburgh loves the Pens.

It appears that Canada has three separate arena projects going on right now.

Markham- New Arena
Laval- Bell Place
Edmonton- New Downtown Arena

Will all three actually come to fruition?

It appears that Canada has three separate arena projects going on right now.

Markham- New Arena
Laval- Bell Place
Edmonton- New Downtown Arena

Will all three actually come to fruition?

You forgot Quebec City so there is actully 4 going on right now if you ask me the arenas in Edmonton , Quebec City & Laval have a good chance of being bulit as for the arena in Markham still to many question marks even with the support of the city of Markham I don't think it gets built if they are not garrenteed an NHL. team which is highly unlikely to happen when you consider MLSE. will not let it happen . I still think an arena gets bulit in Markham just not at 20.000 seats & I think we are going to see the arena there scaled down to about 10.000 to 15.000 seats that could accommodate an OHL. team which has a better chance of happening in Markham than an NHL. team dose .

It appears that Canada has three separate arena projects going on right now.

Markham- New Arena
Laval- Bell Place
Edmonton- New Downtown Arena

Will all three actually come to fruition?
Edmonton will get it done, they have to if they want to keep the Oilers.

It appears that Canada has three separate arena projects going on right now.

Markham- New Arena
Laval- Bell Place
Edmonton- New Downtown Arena

Will all three actually come to fruition?

Yup. Laval's rink will host the Habs AHL farm club, currently in Hamilton. Shame they won't ever play in the "House of Pain", the old Colisee Laval, next to the prison. What an asylum that was.

Markham? Yes. Founded on a desirable public-private partnership - $162mil each. It will also spur a whole slew of tax revenue-generating projects into motion, all masterminded by arena partner and 905-area code development monster Rudy Bratty. Determined to build a bigger tribute to himself than Frank Stronach can.

Edmonton? I would think so. There's enough money in Oilers owner Darell Katz' pockets to get things rolling and the idea of sparking further downtown core development and nightlife is a good thing in a city with a nine-month winter - worked for Winnipeg. Having to drive out to the frozen tundra of the charmless Northlands was hardly a memorable experience. Unless you have a parking lot - or cattle lot - fetish. And the rink really has had its day. If you've been inside both, you would know that it is, structurally, a twin for the Pacific Coliseum in Vancouver, a decent old barn that once housed the NHL's Canucks, but now only fit for junior hockey.

You forgot Quebec City so there is actully 4 going on right now if you ask me the arenas in Edmonton , Quebec City & Laval have a good chance of being bulit as for the arena in Markham still to many question marks even with the support of the city of Markham I don't think it gets built if they are not garrenteed an NHL. team which is highly unlikely to happen when you consider MLSE. will not let it happen . I still think an arena gets bulit in Markham just not at 20.000 seats & I think we are going to see the arena there scaled down to about 10.000 to 15.000 seats that could accommodate an OHL. team which has a better chance of happening in Markham than an NHL. team dose .

If they have to scale the arena down to 10000 seats, they might as well not build it to be honest. That will permanently kill their chances of ever getting an NHL franchise and that capacity will be too big for OHL as junior hockey is not big in the GTA. If NHL flat out refuses to come to Markham, they would be better off building something similar to Hershey Centre, Powerade Centre or GM Centre.

You forgot Quebec City so there is actully 4 going on right now if you ask me the arenas in Edmonton , Quebec City & Laval have a good chance of being bulit as for the arena in Markham still to many question marks even with the support of the city of Markham

I apologize for forgetting Quebec City.:doh:


So, for now, here's the rundown-

Quebec City- future NHL relocation
Laval- transfer from Hamilton
Edmonton- required for keeping the Oilers
Markham- somewhat up in the air

You forgot Quebec City so there is actully 4 going on right now if you ask me the arenas in Edmonton , Quebec City & Laval have a good chance of being bulit as for the arena in Markham still to many question marks even with the support of the city of Markham I don't think it gets built if they are not garrenteed an NHL. team which is highly unlikely to happen when you consider MLSE. will not let it happen . I still think an arena gets bulit in Markham just not at 20.000 seats & I think we are going to see the arena there scaled down to about 10.000 to 15.000 seats that could accommodate an OHL. team which has a better chance of happening in Markham than an NHL. team dose .

You really need to spend a little more time learning about how the professional sports industry works before you continue making uninformed comments.

If the NHL allowed MLSE this so-called veto privilige, it could kick off all sorts of court action in Canada and the US with regard to right to compete laws and anti-trust legislation.

No professional sports league wants anything to do with such a law suit that could weaken their control over franchises. It's one thing to keep a maverick like Jim Balsillie from gaining ownership of an NHL team. Gaining entry to the ownership club is where pro leagues have some say.

But once an individual is in control of a club, and wants to move it, that's where it all gets dicey. The leagues can attempt to persuade someone from moving, and even offer incentives to stay, but if an owner is set on making a move, it's very hard to legally compel him to stop. Al Davis stomped all over the NFL when he turned the Raiders into a migratory franchise.

The plan for this barn build is to have shovels in the ground by this coming fall. And install all 20,000 of the seats they initially planned for.

That suggests there have already been serious talks about moving a franchise. In fact, there's probably a bit of a competition underway between Phoenix, New Jersey and maybe the New York Icelanders to see who can get into Markham first. Even if it is suburban Toronto, it's a massively more lucrative market than Quebec City will ever be.

The only recourse MLSE have is to negotiate a compensation fee to have their market invaded. That's something routinely accepted in these sort of deals, in order for the league to expedite the approval process. But it's not a mandatory requirement. Going to court would be a lengthy and costly procedure, but ultimately a succesful one.

So have you picked out a seat yet at Copps for the two seasons of spectacular hockey you'll be able to enjoy watching future superstar Connor McDavid as he plays for the new OHL Bulldogs franchise?