New thread to separate any updates on the masterplan in general, rather than posting in the HQ thread.


www.noma53.com


Initial Masterplan Design Lead: Aedas

Development JV Partner: TBA (Latest) (http://www.noma53.com/c/news/boost-uks-biggest-redevelopment.php)

Public Realm Design: Mecanoo (http://www.mecanoo.nl/Default.aspx?tabid=116&DetailId=886&pcode=A534)


Initial phases of the development comprise:

Co-operative head office building (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=770686)

Miller Street inner ring road works

City Buildings Hotel Indigo (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=1440262) - Conversion & new build

Power plant off Cheetham Hill Road

Multi-storey car park

Public realm works

Refurbishment of existing buildings - Hanover Building (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=1602359) (fly-through (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIkKJEK2QK4)) and E Block

Masterplan Area:
http://i44.tinypic.com/ih8ya0.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/w03k43.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6186/6123319427_4bb89979ee_b.jpg
Flickr/Co-operative (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theco-operative/sets/72157623936315216) (26/08/11)

http://i46.tinypic.com/20jnswj.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/33m1r0l.jpg


Fly-throughs:

xuB62hB9Zhw
(07/09/11)

RIkKJEK2QK4
(07/03/12)


http://i41.tinypic.com/16bwobd.jpg


Miller St/Inner Ring Road Scheme:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2s5y61d.jpg
More Info (http://www.engage.coop/default.aspx?page=7) App: 096797/VO/2011/N2 (http://pa.manchester.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=LO6493BC6K000)


Other links:

http://www.co-operative.coop/estates/Developments/New-Head-Office

Manchester City Council - Co-op Regeneration Framework (2010) (http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/500113/city_centre_regeneration/4968/co-operative_estate/1)
.

Good idea Nq. Thanks!

Should this be in the under construction section? Seeing as the flagship building is half complete and demolition is continuing elsewhere.

As far as the ringroad changes, and i know this has been discussed before. The new route seems to be a bit of a hash job and is going to take much longer to cross that part of town. I can understand the reason behind it, to bring the COOP HQ within the main city centre. If we look to London however, we can see that it is possible to have major ringroads running through town without being a major barrier between areas.

In my opinion the closing of roads, traffic calming and one way systems have meant that all traffic is now channeled onto one or two key roads which then cause chaos. Much better to have more roads open so that traffic can spread out more, and then to improve the crossing and street scene on the current ring road to visually connect the COOP area to the rest of the city.

If Las Vegas can do it so can we.

NOMA could be Manchester's new Spinningfields - IoD chair

28th Nov 2011 at 08:56am

The Co-operative's multimillion-pound NOMA development in Manchester could be as "impressive and vibrant as Spinningfields". That's according to the chairman of the Institute of Directors (IoD) North West's Manchester branch.

He made the comments as almost 100 IoD members attended a breakfast briefing to discuss the north Manchester project, set to rejuvenate the area around the company's head office in Miller Street, close to Victoria Station.

The Co-operative's plans include constructing a new "environmentally-friendly office building" – due for completion in autumn 2012 – as well as flats, retail units and a public realm.

Phil Smith, the chairman of the IoD North West's Manchester branch, said: "We admire The Co-operative’s ambitious vision and investment in NOMA.

"There is no reason why the area should not be as impressive and vibrant as Spinningfields. IoD Manchester is delighted to support the scheme."

Martyn Hulme, managing director of Co-operative Estates, added: "We were pleased to have the opportunity to update IoD Manchester members on NOMA and explain to them its importance.

"NOMA has the potential to bring new businesses and residents to the area. We are keen to ensure we update all stakeholders on its progress."

IoD North West's Manchester branch currently has 1,000 members.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/north-west/62508-noma-could-be-manchesters-new-spinningfields-iod-chair/index.html

Strange decision considering.....

MEN.

Staff at the Manchester office of Co-operative Travel have been told their jobs are being moved out of the city after the company's merger with troubled Thomas Cook.

In October, 176 staff were told their jobs were subject to a 90-day consultation process, and 100 of them have now been told they are being relocated to other Thomas Cook offices.

The majority will move to Altrincham, with the remainder heading to Accrington.

The joint venture's chief executive Simon Robinson said: "We're pleased that we've been able to update a number of colleagues today with the news that we are relocating their roles to our Altrincham and Accrington sites.

"By doing this we believe the sales, service and financial performance of this important part of the joint venture will improve.

"We have shared with our colleagues today the proposal and the next steps we'll take to support them through this process."

At the time the merger was announced Co-op bosses said it was always the intention to transfer operations to Thomas Cook.

Consultation remains ongoing for the remaining 76 staff affected, with redundancy still a possibility.

The merger created the largest high street travel agent in the country with more than 1,200 outlets.

I think the merger is just being handled crazily, in Wigan theres two Thomas Cooks oppostite each other in the Town centre and their renovating both premises!

I seem to recall Thos. Cook has just had to ask its bankers for more money as their business has suffered badly from events in Egypt and with other travel related problems.

Looks as if the Co-op has merged with a corporate basket case.

I seem to recall Thos. Cook has just had to ask its bankers for more money as their business has suffered badly from events in Egypt and with other travel related problems.

Looks as if the Co-op has merged with a corporate basket case.

I wouldn't call one of Europes biggest package operators a basket case. It's just a tough time of year for operators like Thomas cook and so a bit of extra leg room (no pun intended) in cash flow is usefull until next year. The olympics should see them pick up much more trade over the short term.

I wouldn't call one of Europes biggest package operators a basket case. It's just a tough time of year for operators like Thomas cook and so a bit of extra leg room (no pun intended) in cash flow is usefull until next year. The olympics should see them pick up much more trade over the short term.

The trend over a few years now is to use the internet and also away from "packages" to "individualised" holidays apparently.

Thos. Cook has lots of shops and they will certainly rationlise their estate in the coming months.

Still think they are more likely to contract than expand the traditional non-internet business but time will tell.

£3-3.5m tender for Phase 1 public realm,
http://www.publictenders.net/tender/132176

The key target contract dates are:

Award notification letter 30.3.2012.

Award contract 11.4.2012.

Start on site 7.5.2012.

Completion 17.9.2012.

^^ That seems to be a nice swift turn-around, finished by Sept this year (not that i'm comlaining)! I'm taking it that this is the 'square in front of the HQ & stretching from Miller St across to Angel St. It should give a good physical impression and advert for NoMa and what is to come!

Excellent work NQ.

As a northsider resident, I eagerly await, like a Pavlovian dog anticipates a ringing bell, for this to emerge.

Bump.

Co-op ring road work to start ‘within weeks’

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1485088_co-op-ring-road-work-to-start-within-weeks

@paulunger (http://twitter.com/#!/paulunger/status/167170870916288512)

Co-op application going in within weeks for 107,000 sq ft office refurb of Hanover Building. #mcrannualreview

10 hours ago

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4097/4885385074_fa681df78e_z.jpg
Flickr: Robert Wade - Hanover Building (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossendalewadey/4885385074/)

Found this the other day, how long has 29 Shudehill been known as NOMA House? Does it pre-date Co-op's use, or has it been recently renamed?

http://www.wtgunson.co.uk/Pages/Property.asp?ID=600

http://i44.tinypic.com/bj8sbm.jpg

Discussion on Beswick at Breakfast this morning about Noma, Coop, Hotel Indigo and the Ring Road works.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00p3gmq/Beswick_at_Breakfast_28_02_2012/

Starts at 1hour 17mins

Finally we've had more traffic news, this time about the inner ring road.

To quote the city council press release.

'Work on the Miller Street ring road will begin on Monday 19 March.

'The road is integral to unlocking The Co-operative Group's £800 million NOMA development in the north of the city centre, and is seen as one of the catalysts to the inward investment vital to the success of the project.

'The road construction work, carried out by contractor Galliford Try on behalf of Manchester City Council, is expected to create 50 jobs during the twelve-month construction period. The contractor will be updating residents on developments as the project progresses, whilst updates will also be available via The Co-operative Group's Engage website, click here.

'The council has also revealed that details of the compensation scheme for local residents affected by the road will be announced in the next few weeks: affected residents will receive details of how to submit a claim shortly.'

http://www.manchesterconfidential.co.uk/Property/Ring-Road-Announcement-As-Deansgate-Closes

The trend over a few years now is to use the internet and also away from "packages" to "individualised" holidays apparently. ***

What's with that weird image link in your posts Psykick???


Coming up on Wednesday,
At MIPIM we’ll be able to let you know about the new and refurbished office space that’s become available, as well as a lot of behind the scenes work that is integral to the project’s success.

http://manchesteratmipim.wordpress.com/2012/03/01/guest-blog-david-pringle-noma/

Wednesday 7 March

15:45: 'Reshaping Manchester's Skyline'

Speaker(s): David Pringle, director of NOMA and Ruairidh Jackson, strategy and development director of NOMA

Random short fly-through, might be for NOMA's power station.

gbk14Q7wPx4

Where will the NOMA power station be situated?

Where will the NOMA power station be situated?

According to the 2010 framework doc, near the Fort Retail Park. Might be a more recent update somewhere.
A 5 acre site located behind Manchester Fort Retail Park in Cheetham Hill, about 1 mile from the Masterplan, has been identified as the best location for the project. A conditional contract for purchase (subject to Planning Permission being granted) is nearing completion with the site developer.

p.23 http://www.manchester.gov.uk/downloads/download/4216/co-op_draft_framework_december_2010

Maybe that video isn't related, looks too small for it. Just one of their other related uploads is labelled NOMA green energy centre.

What's with that weird image link in your posts Psykick???


It's spam - the post was just a copy of part of iamafreeman's post further up and the weird 1x1 image is used to track your IP address when you view the page. Does anyone know how to report spammers - I clicked on the report button but who does that go to?

Ah, thought it may have been, didn't notice the duplication from further up. Was thinking it was some kind of sneaky backlink.

That's what I usually do, click the report button, sometimes a bit of a delay before they get banned. Not an obvious spam to pick up.

Cheers nq. Some kind of steel framed building going up right now behind 'The Fort' / Metrolink depot but Im unsure if its this. Its fairly large anyway!

Possibly the new Irish Heritage Centre construction? Or is that the wrong direction/size.

http://www.iwhc.com/news/119-new-centre-takes-shape

Don't think we've seen an app for the power plant yet.

Time waits for NOMA

7th March 2012

THE director in charge of the Co-operative Group's £800m NOMA project said that talks were still ongoing with potential joint venture partners.

The Co-operative has been in ongoing talks both with Manchester-based Bruntwood and a joint Delancey/Landid bid since October.

However, Mr Pringle told an audience at the MIPIM property conference in Cannes that "we are not going to rush it".

"We'll continue to develop out NOMA ourselves until we find the right partner or partners," he added.

Following the granting of planning permission to Liverpool-based Sanguine Hospitality for the Hotel Indigo scheme in December, the next building which is set to be brought forward is the 100,000 sq ft Hanover Building, which is being converted into Grade A offices with ground floor retail units.

Mr Pringle said that one of the building's key features is a large central atrium which had previously been a loading dock A glass roof will be placed above this, with the two wings of the buildings linked by a series of bridges. Glass-fronted lifts will run up and down each side of the building.

To the rear, the building will open out onto a new square, which will represent the second phase of new public realm being developed at the site. It is set to get underway later this year, while the first phase outside Co-Operative's own £100m 1 Angel Square headquarters will begin in April.

Mr Pringle said the Co-operative intends to achieve a BREEAM 'Excellent' rating for Hanover House, where office space is expected to be pitched at around £20 per sq ft.

In total, around 600,000 sq ft of offices will be redeveloped as part of NOMA, and the space developed will provide "a mix of quality and price points" to encourage a diversity of occupiers.

He added that the Co-operative "either invested or committed to invest" some £280m in the project to date.

NOMA strategic director Ruaridh Jackson said that 1 Angel Square has a combination of environmental technologies including a plant oil-fired CHP system, earth tubes delivering 100% fresh air plus absorbers and chillers which, when combined, will mean the building has "the highest BREEAM score of any building int the UK".

http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/

The new fly-through, with a little bit of Victoria Station.

RIkKJEK2QK4

eDjyqXIZGjI

fSLFuKnWfRo

MIPIM Noma presentation up.

Points, renders, 2 videos.

Enjoy. :)

Quick points.

Existing buildings to be refurbished creating 600,000 sq ft of office space.

300,000 sq ft of retail space to be created.

13 storey(?) Hotel Indigo to start in May.

Public realm starts in April.

Noma Energy Centre. (lower middle render)

http://i.imgur.com/87SWe.jpg

Architects involved in Noma.

http://i.imgur.com/hZ6N4.jpg

Actual office designs put forward by unnamed architects.

http://i.imgur.com/LV3r3.jpg

Video 1.

eDjyqXIZGjI&list=UU-m-kl6eBJODdwz0vz1Z7YA&index=2&feature=plcp

Video 2.

fSLFuKnWfRo&list=UU-m-kl6eBJODdwz0vz1Z7YA&index=1&feature=plcp

NOMA Hanover walk-through:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIkKJEK2QK4&feature=youtu.be

RIkKJEK2QK4

The new fly-through, with a little bit of Victoria Station.

RIkKJEK2QK4

Absolutely loving that.
Superb fly through.

Old style class meets contemporary chic :cheers:
This is what proper cities can do that blow ins can't

NOMA Hanover walk-through:

Oh shame. Looks like someone beat you to it :ohno:

Oh shame. Looks like someone beat you to it :ohno:

Oops! Sorry nq, missed it.

Co-op takes solo approach for NOMA

8 Mar 2012, 10:00

David Pringle, director of Noma, the Co-operative Group's 20-acre development in central Manchester, told delegates at Mipim the company will continue to deliver the project alone for the foreseeable future.

A lengthy development contest has failed to find a suitable partner for the scheme, Pringle said. He told guests on the Manchester Stand on Wednesday: "We wouldn't have started this development without understanding the size of the commitment needed and a having a clear plan to deliver it.

"We recognised right at the outset if we were to do this with the right partner it would really add to the success of Noma. We started a process last year of trying to find a partner who wished to share in our vision.

"Those discussions are still ongoing, we've had some great conversations but this is a very large and complex project and we're not quite there yet. But for us it's really important that we get this right so we're not going to rush it. We'll continue to develop out Noma ourselves until we find the right partner or partners."

Place understands a recommendation will be put to the Co-op board later this month that none of the shortlisted joint venture partners are selected to partner on the whole scheme. The sticking point is believed to be the level of financial commitment the bidders were willing to commit; the Co-op wanted them to take a greater share of the risk.

Instead, the Co-op will develop alone or consider piecemeal plot sales and development agreements with specialists for separate elements such as office refurbishment, residential and retail as phases come forward.
The two shortlisted contenders were reportedly Bruntwood and a combined Delancey and Landid bid.

The Co-op has consent for 4m sq ft of development in its estate in the north of the city centre. The scheme is anchored by its own new 325,000 sq ft headquarters which is due for completion this year.

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/11189-co-op-takes-solo-approach-for-noma.html

New views of Noma's next stages

14 Mar 2012, 10:49

The Co-operative Group has released new images and an animated video walk-through of its central Manchester development focusing on the forthcoming Hanover Buildings office refurbishment.

Work on Hanover is expected to begin before the end of the year. The detailed planning application is due to be submitted in the coming weeks. The build programme schedules completion by the fourth quarter of 2013, but, said a Co-op spokesman, this process can be accelerated at the request of a tenant.

The images in the gallery below show the front exterior of the building as well as the central atrium and bridges linking the two parts of the scheme. Roger Stephenson Architects and Sheppard Robson designed the Hanover Buildings redevelopment.

Office agents on the scheme are WHR Property Consultants and Jones Lang LaSalle and retail agents are Tushingham Moore.


http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/11223-new-views-of-noma-s-next-stages.html

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/assets/_files/cached/img/858x1000/mar_12/pnw__1331568857_NOMA_VIEW_04_hanover_house.jpg

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/assets/_files/cached/img/1000x980/mar_12/pnw__1331722056_1302-COOP-VIEW_0.jpg

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/assets/_files/cached/img/1000x920/mar_12/pnw__1331568939_NOMA_1302-COOP-VIEW_01.jpg

13 storey(?) Hotel Indigo to start in May...
Along with the new Hannover walk through video, it seems like "Hotel Indigo" has shrunk in size significantly from here:
http://flic.kr/p/ak6BwT
In that pic it looks a similar size the existing co op (mini) 'scraper. Gutted.

Bit confused here.

The Hanover fly through originally posted by NQ looks gorgeous.

The still images just posted by Flange appear to have some dodgy looking 'box' on the roof (I did spot the worrying reference to Roger Stephenson, gulp)

Then check out the original NOMA fly through and there's some even worse looking roof litter.

I'm hoping for the clean lines of the NQ posted vid and not a jumble of crap on the roof like the Arndale Centre.

Jacobs could be first to move in at Noma

May 08, 2012

Jacobs Engineering could become the first occupier at The Co-operative Group’s Noma scheme in Manchester city centre.

The US-owned firm currently operates from sites in Cheadle and Sale as well as the city centre, where it is understood to be eyeing a move to occupy 105,000 sq ft at the historic Hanover building on Corporation Street.

A planning application for the Hanover building will be submitted soon, say Co-op bosses.

They intend that the building will be converted into around 100,000 sq ft of grade A offices, alongside just over 25,000 sq ft of retail space.

These will be available from the end of 2012.

Ruairidh Jackson, strategy and development director for Noma, said: "We don’t comment on specific occupier interests.

"We have announced our intention to bring the refurbishment of the Hanover building forward as the next phase of Noma.

"We also have a selection of new-build options available, so any sensible occupier looking to either relocate within the north west or move to Manchester for the first time is likely to consider moving to Noma, as it is the leading scheme in the city."

Jacobs is also understood to have looked at Ask Developments’ Number One First Srreet office scheme, and sites near Manchester Airport.

Earlier this year, Jacobs signed up for 22,000 sq ft at Orbit Developments’ Park Square development in Cheadle.

Vail Williams, the estate agency advising Jacobs, did not comment.

Other big firms including BUPA, the healthcare provider, and insurance giant Aviva are also understood to be mulling over the option of new city centre offices.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/commercial_property/s/1493102_jacobs-could-be-first-to-move-in-at-noma-

RIkKJEK2QK4[/QUOTE]

Just looking again at the perspective shown in the screenshot, wouldn't this with a bit of imagination, make a great new public square as a counterbalance to St Peter's Sq? (tramlines and all).

The closing of the last bit of Corporation St to all but buses wouldn't be a great hardship.
The space is certainly big enough, has an open aspect to the southwest for letting in light, and already contains some meaty urban buildings.

It might also offer the opportunity to build a new modern 'front' entrance to Victoria Stn - complimenting the new roof - now that Chets has hidden the old one.
A station that opens out onto a new modern public square and orientates itself towards the new commercial district would work for both NOMA and Victoria.

Any views?

Just looking again at the perspective shown in the screenshot, wouldn't this with a bit of imagination, make a great new public square as a counterbalance to St Peter's Sq? (tramlines and all).

The closing of the last bit of Corporation St to all but buses wouldn't be a great hardship.
The space is certainly big enough, has an open aspect to the southwest for letting in light, and already contains some meaty urban buildings.

It might also offer the opportunity to build a new modern 'front' entrance to Victoria Stn - complimenting the new roof - now that Chets has hidden the old one.
A station that opens out onto a new modern public square and orientates itself towards the new commercial district would work for both NOMA and Victoria.

Any views?

It barely even encroaches on the entrance. Surely the main entrance now is more or less at the end elevation of the building which still falls under the listed facade, therefore meaning that there is no need for a modern entrance.

Judging by the comments already condemning the tram lines in SPQ, I can’t see this new craze catching on.

[/QUOTE]wouldn't this with a bit of imagination, make a great new public square as a counterbalance to St Peter's Sq? (tramlines and all).

The closing of the last bit of Corporation St to all but buses wouldn't be a great hardship.
[/QUOTE]

How would closing Corporation St affect access for taxis/dropping off to the Printworks, Hanover Building ground floor retail units or the soon to be re-launched Exchange/Triangle Arcade (with its notion to create a mainly bar/dining experience). What issues would this create on the IRR for accessing the Shudehill and Arndale car parks via Shudehill alone?


I would imagine the Co-op would be against another public square here when they will struggle to get people out to the new one next to the HQ. As that is being funded by taxpayers of Manchester, how could another square be justified when MCC struggles to maintain the upkeep of the ones that it does manage?


I’ve expressed on the Greengate debate how I believe a Northern bus station/rail/Metrolink hub on the Strangeways site would be a strategy for removing the larger buses/superfluous traffic from the city centre to address the chronic pollution levels and failing transport policy of MCC.


The Fishdock site would also be ideal for creating that bus station/transport hub next to Victoria Station. I imagine though the ASK/MCC relationship would almost certainly kill off that notion for the usual vague mixed-use proposals that only benefit the land owners/developers rather that attempt coherent city planning.

Place North West

Co-op Confirms JV Talks Over NOMA

28 May 2012, 13:30

The Co-operative Group has entered into exclusive talks with developers Delancey and Landid to form a joint venture for its £800m NOMA development in central Manchester.

The Co-op said the 'announcement represents a milestone for the ambitious project which will transform 20 acres of the city's Northern Gateway into a high quality development, providing 4m square feet of office, residential, retail and leisure space.'

The first phase, the £100m new head office, 1 Angel Square, is due for completion in September, with additional phases coming online throughout the course of the year.

David Pringle, director of NOMA, said: "This represents a great opportunity to bring together businesses of equal pedigree and financial standing. Delancey and Landid have the track record, undoubted talent and complementary expertise that will enable us to drive the Noma project forward in the way we have always intended.

"Delancey have already demonstrated a commitment to Manchester through previous developments, and have an excellent understanding of the national and North West property markets. This, coupled with our shared experience and brand reach, will ensure that investors and occupiers will be comfortable and confident working with both parties.

"We have a shared belief in what Noma can deliver to partners and the city, and we are looking forward to delivering this vision together."

Paul Goswell, managing director of Delancey, added: "Noma is one of the most exciting redevelopment opportunities in the UK today. It is part of an incredibly vibrant city centre and has the critical mass needed to create a new integrated residential and commercial district, in keeping with today's urban lifestyles. We are delighted to be in exclusive talks with The Co-operative and, with our partner Landid, are relishing the challenge of creating something truly special for Manchester."

From the Co-op Intranet... The UK’s biggest regional redevelopment project, the £800 million NOMA scheme in Manchester city centre, received a major boost when The Co-operative Group named preferred joint venture partners for the scheme. Specialist real estate investment and advisory company Delancey, working in partnership with asset management, development and refurbishment specialist Landid, are now in an exclusive lockout period, whilst detailed talks with the Group continue. Coming during tough times for the UK economy, which have hit the construction industry hard, the announcement represents a milestone for the ambitious project which will transform 20 acres of the city’s “Northern Gateway” into a high quality development, providing 4m square feet of office, residential, retail and leisure space. Phase One of the development– The Co-operative Group’s £100 million new building, 1 Angel Square – is due for completion in September, with additional phases coming online throughout the course of the year. David Pringle, Director of NOMA, said: “This represents a great opportunity to bring together businesses of equal pedigree and financial standing. Delancey and Landid have the track record, undoubted talent and complementary expertise that will enable us to drive the NOMA project forward in the way we have always intended. Delancey have already demonstrated a commitment to Manchester through previous developments, and have an excellent understanding of the national and North West property markets. This, coupled with our shared experience and brand reach, will ensure that investors and occupiers will be comfortable and confident working with both parties. We have a shared belief in what NOMA can deliver to partners and the city, and we are looking forward to delivering this vision together.” Paul Goswell, Managing Director at Delancey, added: “NOMA is one of the most exciting redevelopment opportunities in the UK today. It is part of an incredibly vibrant city centre and has the critical mass needed to create a new integrated residential and commercial district, in keeping with today’s urban lifestyles. We are delighted to be in exclusive talks with The Co-operative and, with our partner Landid, are relishing the challenge of creating something truly special for Manchester.”

From the Times article they are paying a small amount to join the project and then will be 50-50 partners spending equal amounts.

Don't think this was posted, from the beginning of last month,
Consultants named for £800m Co-Op scheme

1 June 2012

Consultants Turner & Townsend, Gardiner & Theobald and Davis Langdon have been appointed to work on the Co-Operative Group’s £800m Northern Gateway Manchester scheme.

Architects 3D Reid, Roger Stephenson and Leach Rhodes Walker have also won a place on the scheme, known as Noma.

The news follows this week’s announcement that developers Delancey and Landid have been chosen as preferred bidders to partner the Co-Op in developing the scheme (pictured).

Roger Stephenson will work with architect Axis, a division of Sheppard Robson, on designing a £16m refurbishment of the Edwardian Hanover office, made up of two of the nine listed buildings on the site. Turner & Townsend is working as project managers while Davis Langdon will provide cost consultancy.

3D Reid, architect of the Co-Op’s £100m new HQ building is working on a four-star hotel, worth around £25m, which will be the first of two hotels on the 20-acre site. The other is being designed by Leach Rhodes Walker and will include a 850-space multi-storey car park below a three star hotel.

The masterplan for Noma was completed by Arup Associates. The architects now working on individual buildings are providing services as a design panel working with prospective buyers and occupiers. Ian Simpson Architects, Aedas and PLP are also on the panel but are yet to win work on individual buildings.

Ruairidh Jackson, strategy and development director for Noma at the Co-Op, said that the company was a “loyal client” and expected firms currently on the scheme to win more work on the huge development in the future.

“As a business we believe in building long-term relationships so we hope that teams that work well with us can work across the site,” he said.

However, he added that it was also important to be open to new partners with fresh ideas.

Commercial property consultants partnership Drivers Jonas Deliotte is acting as planning consultant on the project while engineer Buro Happold is providing on-site engineering consultancy.

http://www.building.co.uk/consultants-named-for-%C2%A3800m-co-op-scheme/5037441.article

However, he added that it was also important to be open to new partners with fresh ideas

And so they appoint Roger Stephenson, Sheppard Robson, Ian Simpson, Arups, Aedas and Leach Rhodes Walker. :nuts:

Where are the smaller, younger or more left field practices represented?

3D Reid, architect of the Co-Op’s £100m new HQ building is working on a four-star hotel, worth around £25m

That'll be the proposed Indigo Hotel on Corporation St that we've already seen, I reckon.

Working on? A redesign maybe?

Co-op submits office refurb plans

24 Jul 2012, 13:33

The Co-operative Group has submitted its planning application for the redevelopment and refurbishment of Hanover Building, the early 1900s block opposite the entrance to Victoria Station in NOMA.

If the application is accepted by Manchester City Council, the building will be transformed into 100,000 sq ft of quality office space and 30,000 sq ft of retail on the ground and basement floors.

Roger Stephenson Architects and Sheppard Robson designed the Hanover Buildings redevelopment. Office agents on the scheme are WHR Property Consultants and Jones Lang LaSalle. Retail agents are Tushingham Moore.

The submission of the planning application will not affect the current staff and occupants of the building in the short term.

David Pringle, director of NOMA, said: "This is a really important milestone for NOMA, and marks the beginning of phase five of the programme. The plans are a brilliantly creative use of one of our heritage buildings, and the first step in unlocking the potential of the Group's current Manchester complex."

NOMA is an £800m scheme covering 20 acres in the northern part of Manchester city centre, with a mixture of office space, residential and leisure.

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/12033-co-op-submits-office-refurb-plans.html

App for the Hanover refurb,
Land Bounded By Corporation Street Hanover House And E Block Hanover Street Federation Street And Balloon Street Manchester M4 4BB

External alterations to restore and refurbish building to accommodate office (Class B1)use (floors 1 to 6), shop (Class A1) use, or financial and professional services (Class A2) use or restaurant and cafe use or (Class A3) (ground floor and basement) or commercial storage space (Class B8) (upper and lower basement) including works to open connection between Hanover Street and Balloon Street within covered atrium, insert bridge links within atrium , alterations to facades including windows and entrances, addition of roof level extension and plant room.

100005/FO/2012/C1 (http://pa.manchester.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=M7LY23BC03M00) 100010/LO/2012/C1 (http://pa.manchester.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=M7NLLJBC03M00)

www.oneangelsquare.co.uk

http://www.oneangelsquare.co.uk/img/content/bgs/view7.jpg

http://www.oneangelsquare.co.uk/img/content/noma/masterplan.jpg

http://www.oneangelsquare.co.uk/img/content/location/aerial4.jpg

Good find.

Hotel Indigo constrution starts September 2012???

Another render out the brochure,

http://i50.tinypic.com/2gvkneg.jpg

Is it just me, or does it seem daft to spend the money on one of the finest office buildings of its generation and then completely bury it by surrounding it with (being kind) mediocre mush?

Is it just me, or does it seem daft to spend the money on one of the finest office buildings of its generation and then completely bury it by surrounding it with (being kind) mediocre mush?

Surely you've seen the hot girl who surrounds herself with ugly friends?

A few new renders from the website.

http://www.oneangelsquare.co.uk/img/content/bgs/cam2.jpg

http://www.oneangelsquare.co.uk/img/content/bgs/terrace.jpg

Which buildings are to be/have been demolished thus far? Interested particularly in the building on Hannover Street and Coporation Street, and then the old coop union building from 1911.

The Crown & Cushion pub, the 'United Yeast Company' building and the Co-op recycling centre (no loss) have been knocked down up til now. Next to go will be the old post office on Long Millgate (behind the City Buildings) to prepare the space for the Indigo Hotel. The Co-op buildings are set to stay and be renovated for future use. The only other structures that disappear on the renders are the Ducie Bridge pub and the adjoining old warehouse, which is a great shame, but we'll wait and see how it all pans out. Considering the closeness of the area to Victoria and the centre of town, it's hard to imagine that the current under use of 'NOMA' will continue.

That will be a shame to lose the cluster of buildings around Oswald Street. Particularly an old Victorian pub, which the urban designers could have easily integrated into the scheme. Thousands of people working in finance would really appreciate somewhere like that adjacent to their offices.

Getting a bit sick of these carte blanche schemes which expunge any relic of the past. Manchester is interesting because it is a composite of different ages and styles. Yeah, its great they are doing something with the space down there, but they could be a bit more creative with the assets already in place.

Getting a bit sick of these carte blanche schemes which expunge any relic of the past. Manchester is interesting because it is a composite of different ages and styles. Yeah, its great they are doing something with the space down there, but they could be a bit more creative with the assets already in place.

Agreed. Although at least we get to keep the Angel. Early proposals saw that disappearing underneath the new ring road as well as the Ducie and Crown and Cushion....

Best,
Slip

Which buildings are to be/have been demolished thus far? Interested particularly in the building on Hannover Street and Coporation Street, and then the old coop union building from 1911.Are there any changes planned south of Miller Street, apart from City Buildings and possible building on the old CIS car park?

Docs are up.

100010/LO/2012/C1 | LISTED BUILDING CONSENT for internal and external alterations to restore and refurbish building including opening connection between Hanover Street and Balloon Street within covered atrium, insertion of bridge links within atrium ,external alterations to facades including windows and entrances, addition of roof level extension and plant room, all associated with scheme to accommodate office (Class B1)use (floors 1 to 6), shop (Class A1) use, or financial and professional services (Class A2) use or restaurant and cafe use or (Class A3) (ground floor and basement) and commercial storage space (Class B8) (basement). | Land Bounded By Corporation Street Hanover Street Hanover House And E Block Hanover Street Federation Street And Balloon Street Manchester M4 4BB

Design and Access Statement
PROJECT Hanover
ADDRESS Hanover St, Manchester
CLIENT The Co-operative Group

http://www.publicaccess.manchester.gov.uk/associateddocs/selecteddoc.aspx?100010-dsx-0001.pdf (all you really need yo know)

Full list of docs. http://www.publicaccess.manchester.gov.uk/associateddocs/MCCList1.aspx?100010/LO/2012/C1

^^ (all you really need yo know)

That's something of an understatement! Interesting to read the history of the Co-op buildings, and how the Edwardian buildings are viewed now compared to the time when they were good for nothing more than demolition. How impressive would the Bank have looked behind the facade of the 'G' Block instead of the bland 70s building?

It's a venue which helped put fledgling rock stars on the path to fame.

Now New Century Hall on Miller Street – once one of Britain’s top music stages – is set for a major overhaul.

The Co-operative Group, which owns the site in Manchester city centre, says it is looking for new businesses to move in once its own workers vacate the space next year.

The retail and banking group is moving to a new HQ across the road as part of an £800m redevelopment.

The multi-storey building, which includes the hall and several floors of office space, played host to Jimi Hendrix, The Bee Gees and Ike and Tina Turner during its heyday in the 1960s.

Now mainly used for corporate functions, the venue also hosted African music legends Amadou and Mariam as part of last year’s Manchester International Festival.

But the Co-op now say the Grade II listed building would be ‘reinvigorated’ as part of the Noma scheme – once its staff had transferred to new One Angel Square headquarters.

The group said businesses, architects, and developers were being invited to submit proposals for using the new space.

The spokesman said: “As part of the scheme, which will transform 20 acres of the city’s Northern Gateway by incorporating an exciting mix of office, residential, retail, leisure and cultural space, we are currently investigating ways in which we can reinvigorate New Century Hall for the 21st Century.”

Also being planned is the creation of a walkway which would connect the building to a public space at the heart of the new district. The 1962-built tower – which incorporates the hall – was created to mark the centenary year of the Co-operative Wholesale Society.

Leading Manchester photographer Harry Goodwin took a classic picture of Jimi Hendrix playing his guitar with his teeth at the hall in 1967.

Kevin Lane, 64, a DJ at the hall in 1966, said: “New Century was the most popular venue in Manchester in its time. Anybody who was anybody played there. If you were at the top of the charts, you would be there.

Musician Paul Mlynarz, who played in bands including Phoenix City Smash, said: “I saw many top names there including Hendrix. Many people say they were there, but after a few minutes of Hendrix, most people were in the bars.

“I loved the place. Just walking into the main hall was a magic experience, even though it was a regular visit.”

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1586494_new-centry-hall-music-venue-to-have-major-overhaul-as-part-of-noma-development

Hi guys

Not sure if this has been mentioned and noted before. I cant remember it anyway. On WHR's website under offices (i'll attach the link), if you watch patiently you will see in the slide show the various office schemes aswell as two other new renders of offices from NOMA - one appears after MediaCity and the other after Belvedere House. Now I understand that they may well be massing blocks but these have never been released before and dont look anything like the renders we've seen of the masterplan.

http://whrproperty.co.uk/ManchesterOfficesDevelopmentConsultancy.php

Andrew

Whats Angel Meadow like? go past it all the time and never knew it was there.

Whats Angel Meadow like? go past it all the time and never knew it was there.

Nice enough. Area itself is presently a but lifeless, although it is next door to the Marble Arch, which would be enough for me and my stressed liver.

Hi guys

Not sure if this has been mentioned and noted before. I cant remember it anyway. On WHR's website under offices (i'll attach the link), if you watch patiently you will see in the slide show the various office schemes aswell as two other new renders of offices from NOMA - one appears after MediaCity and the other after Belvedere House. Now I understand that they may well be massing blocks but these have never been released before and dont look anything like the renders we've seen of the masterplan.

http://whrproperty.co.uk/ManchesterOfficesDevelopmentConsultancy.php

Andrew

Good find!

http://whrproperty.co.uk/images/MI865_Cam-6-HI-RES-FINAL5.jpg

http://whrproperty.co.uk/images/COOP.jpg

Look a bit too intricate to be massing blocks to me.

Look a bit too intricate to be massing blocks to me.

That was my thought when I saw the bigger renders and tbh I'm quite liking them. Be interesting to see other angles if these are the final designs.

Andrew

Good find!

http://whrproperty.co.uk/images/MI865_Cam-6-HI-RES-FINAL5.jpg

http://whrproperty.co.uk/images/COOP.jpg

Both buildings on stilts. If that's the correct term for them?

Both buildings on stilts. If that's the correct term for them? There called Piloti. But stilts is acceptable in general architectural lingo.

Both buildings on stilts. If that's the correct term for them?

Yeah, that will do. And the render even has the old BR massive lighting stack at the back if you look closely enough.

Sympathetic and modern enough to enhance the area I would argue.

New advertising banner on City Buildings.

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae129/neil081273/D3F51C32-7CB2-4444-A695-84AB578C8204-402-000000461A401AE1.jpg

When's actual work to start on this site. I know the permission has been granted for the hotel but no clear sign that work is to start. Seems a lot of promotional in the form of the wrap around but nothing of any substance.

I think some one mentioned October?

Also in regards to the road remodeling the junction at Red Bank and Corporation street is coming into being. I wasnt 100% but there will be no connection through onto the new ring road, what with it being about 6FT higher now! So the two roads will curve past each other but will no longer be joined.

New advertising banner on City Buildings.

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae129/neil081273/D3F51C32-7CB2-4444-A695-84AB578C8204-402-000000461A401AE1.jpg

That banner has been there for about 2 months neil. It was defo there in mid June.

Work is said to start September according to the brochure on One Angel Sqaure

Andrew

I heard it had been put back to "2013" for Hotel Indigo? Has it moved forward again?

I get the feeling myself nothing is starting this year.

The plan at the moment is to just complete One Angel Square by the end of the year. Co-op are hoping they will find a £150m buyer for One Angel Square - they claim there is interest. This will be on leaseback terms, but they will get immediate capital so they can release some of that money for the building of Hotel Indigo & renovation of Hanover Building next year.

The plan at the moment is to just complete One Angel Square by the end of the year. Co-op are hoping they will find a £150m buyer for One Angel Square - they claim there is interest. This will be on leaseback terms, but they will get immediate capital so they can release some of that money for the building of Hotel Indigo & renovation of Hanover Building next year.
Does anyone have any kind of idea how much this could potentially cost the Co Op in renting back the building when sold? I mean, my shitty office costs our company £7k per month in rent... surely the rental price for the Co Op would be astronomical?

Does anyone have any kind of idea how much this could potentially cost the Co Op in renting back the building when sold? I mean, my shitty office costs our company £7k per month in rent... surely the rental price for the Co Op would be astronomical?

Ultimately, the Co-op will ensure a favourable rate of rental for itself as part of the deal over a set period.

It's a classic tax avoidance practice to remove both debt and VAT from the balance sheets accrued from the new building and also to avoid any business tax due on the increase in the land value of the wider NOMA estate.

How such accountancy wizardry sits with a supposedly ethical business model is for others to speculate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaseback

All the traffic islands have been removed on the junction of Miller and Corporation St, in preparation for the complete remodelling of the ring road. Can’t see the Ducie Bridge being there for much longer - being surrounded by construction and road workers.

All the traffic islands have been removed on the junction of Miller and Corporation St, in preparation for the complete remodelling of the ring road. Can’t see the Ducie Bridge being there for much longer - being surrounded by construction and road workers. The Ducie has a lease until 2015. However I think they could be turfed out much sooner. Angel Square looks fantastic, just a shame about those buildings on the corner of the junction. Doesn't ruin it, but it would look much better without them.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7125/6872332912_89ace8a39f_c.jpg

Overall, I was dissappointed when i saw the Masterplan road network because the junctions with Great Ancoats St looked to be unneccessarily large. These junctions should be the key to making the area feel part of the City but if they are going in as planned, they will be large enough to create the feeling of a barrier seperating NOMA from the City Centre, which is exactly what Co-Op don't want.
It's lazy design and transport planning at the Masterplanning stage although i hope that things were improved prior to detailed design.

^^

What'll the speed limit be on those sections?

Its 30 now, but whether you will have chance to go that fast on the new Southbound section is another matter, its fairly twisty. They should have burried the Northbound section, but then you would have been left with various other sections totally impassable to pedestrians.

The Ducie has a lease until 2015. However I think they could be turfed out much sooner.

Having destroyed one interesting and historically importantly Manchester pub in the Crown and Cushion for their (subjectively) necessary road move I hope there is a future for the Ducie Bridge Pub as part of the NOMA project.

I would also hope that the Co-op have taken note of how the banal corporate chain-led development of Spinningfields has failed to draw in footfall outside of those who work there (never mind keeping them there after work hours) especially given it’s peripheral location and poor transport links. The favourable rental deals given just to get restaurants to occupy the units there can’t last forever. Ironically it is a pastiche of an interesting building in the Oasthouse (http://theoasthouse.uk.com/gallery/) that has helped invigorate that area in the summer especially.

Realistically like Spinningfields, I do not see a reason why anyone outside of Co-op (and other future office) employees would bother to come to this location- even less so without any interesting social, dining or drinking experiences.

The photo taken from Miller Street doesn’t do justice to the remaining warehouse building which, were the abusive render on the front removed, could quite easily be incorporated into a Carver’s Warehouse-style office development that retains the adjoining Ducie Bridge Pub as well. It could even become an interesting Dukes 92/Albert Shed-style bar and restaurant scheme with added beer garden onto the public realm and views of the new headquarters.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8614/oldgeorgiantownhouseand.jpg

The danger is without imagination that celebrates the architecural history of this area, NOMA could end like the Piccadilly Place development of dull soulless construction that fails to fulfil its mixed-use potential and justify the use of public money in constructing the public realm.

Overall, I was dissappointed when i saw the Masterplan road network because the junctions with Great Ancoats St looked to be unneccessarily large. These junctions should be the key to making the area feel part of the City but if they are going in as planned, they will be large enough to create the feeling of a barrier seperating NOMA from the City Centre, which is exactly what Co-Op don't want.
It's lazy design and transport planning at the Masterplanning stage although i hope that things were improved prior to detailed design.

NB. Moving the road was probably always borne from a desire to bestow a more lucrative M1 postcode (as opposed to the M4 carpark it was) on the new building 2yrs after the original submission rather than design a valid network that addressed the issues of connecting this area to the city

^^:applause: Well argued!^^

Well argued indeed Long Ripple, I admire your vision. I have never seen the warehouse building from that perspective before.
It really would scrub up well and challenge the other architectural styles around it, to the benefit of all. Restaurant/bar at ground, apts above.
I would be tempted into having a go myself if I had the time.

Hmm... I can't say I agree with your point.

The Northern fringe of the city centre is a ****hole, has been for years. It is dominated by rail viaducts stretching out from Victoria and dull, dated buildings with little architectural value. A friend of mine formerly worked at a converted unit under the viaduct in Redbank. Rats were frequent, the area was never maintained.

The building you've pictured isn't really my idea of charismatic old building. I'm all in favour of converting buildings of architectural/historic value - but it looks very dreary, simple and is ripe for demolishment. The building in the background is certainly my idea of architectural worth. If they were deemed historic enough then English Heritage would have listed some, but there are no Grade II buildings around the NOMA area to my knowledge.

I wouldn't say Spinningfields has been disappointing, more underwhelming. The problem is, it is an up-market area of town which suits a minority than a majority. We have to be realistic, it will never be a Market Street unless some banks at Canary Wharf decide to open some large well-paid jobs in Manchester. There are nice parts to Spinningfields, but it will always be quieter like King Street has been for years.

The Northern fringe of the city centre is a ****hole, has been for years. It is dominated by rail viaducts stretching out from Victoria and dull, dated buildings with little architectural value. A friend of mine formerly worked at a converted unit under the viaduct in Redbank. Rats were frequent, the area was never maintained
Agreed it’s a neglected area of town but most of Manchester is infested with rats if you hang around long enough (Chinatown is probably the worst). Also the proximity to the River Irk would make this area particularly susceptible. Shiny new glass offices won’t provide a solution to rats if the council doesn’t commit to cleaning the area as part of it’s commitment to “regeneration.”

Actually I'd love to see the River Irk revealed, by removing many of those scruffy micro-industry units along its route to create a real green corridor out of the city.

If they were deemed historic enough then English Heritage would have listed some, but there are no Grade II buildings around the NOMA area to my knowledge.
Within 100yards of the new Co-op HQ site: The Parker’s Hotel, Ashton House (Boutique Hostel), New Mount St (Business Centre), both Charter St & Sharp St Ragged Schools, Damaz Warehouse conversion and the Marble Arch Pub are all Grade II Listed, with the old Co-op Tobacco Warehouses adding “buildings of merit” surrounding the historic Angel Meadow Park. The old Pot of Beer Pub has recently been converted into a Charity HQ retaining the quirky architectural charm of the area and the Angel Pub has one of the oldest continual licences in the city. The soon-to-be vacated offices of the Co-op are all "listed" as is the Hovell’s Umbrella Warehouse on the Shudehill area within the NOMA site.

It's these buildings that could provide architectural inspiration for new building on the NOMA estate to create an integrated whole rather than replicate the dull convoluted Spinningfields development (I actually see the new Co-op HQ successfully referencing those rusting railway viaducts that you refer to and even the historical railway box girders of Sir William Fairbairn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Fairbairn)).

This area featured recently on the BBC Michael Wood’s The Great British Story: A People's History (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01llg39).

Actually it’s this history of Manchester that could provide the “destination” location that would bring people to this area, with plans to unearth the old Arkwright Mill foundations on the NOMA plot and the historical importance of the Angel Meadow Park. Demolishing interesting historical buildings, such as the Ducie Brdige Pub in favour of another sterile corporate hinterland would be at odds with that possibility.

NB. Agreed, the Parker’s Hotel is indeed an incredible building and should be one of the most sought after addresses in the city but instead typifies the rubbish planning of Manchester that added the appalling annnex and turned it, and other buildings of merit and quality, into overcrowded student/migrant worker dorms (or seeks to eradicate them altogether) at the behest of the visionless property gangsters and "value of nothing" land owners.

I agree with Mr Ripple as well. It takes vision to see the potential of grim and unfashionable buildings such as the one above. Look at Castlefield in the 80's, who would have thought anyone would want to spend any time there?

I would like to see NOMA incorporating as many of the existing buildings as possible, the more variety the better.

Parkers Hotel is a building I would approve of. But the other buildings are mostly dingy buildings a of a by-gone era. Just because they're old or listed doesn't mean they have architectural value or are vital. Park Hill in Sheffield is a great example of civil servants losing the plot. Like you say, if the roads, viaducts were maintained more then the area wouldn't have a ******** feeling about it. That would be a start rather than persuading the Co-op to fix and regenerate an area they can't possibly do without the help & willingness of the council to maintain the area.

I agree with Mr Ripple as well. It takes vision to see the potential of grim and unfashionable buildings such as the one above. Look at Castlefield in the 80's, who would have thought anyone would want to spend any time there?

I would like to see NOMA incorporating as many of the existing buildings as possible, the more variety the better.

+1

Parkers Hotel is a building I would approve of. But the other buildings are mostly dingy buildings a of a by-gone era. Just because they're old or listed doesn't mean they have architectural value or are vital.So why did you mention listing as an example of there being no buildings of merit? Changing your argument because you don't like the answer?

LongRipple, you forgot the CIS building in your listed properties. There may be others on the sites south of Miller Street too.

Long Ripple....
Nice to see a bit of unconventional and original thinking on here.
Quite a persuasive argument IMHO

Hmm... I can't say I agree with your point.

The Northern fringe of the city centre is a ****hole, has been for years. It is dominated by rail viaducts stretching out from Victoria and dull, dated buildings with little architectural value. A friend of mine formerly worked at a converted unit under the viaduct in Redbank. Rats were frequent, the area was never maintained.

The building you've pictured isn't really my idea of charismatic old building. I'm all in favour of converting buildings of architectural/historic value - but it looks very dreary, simple and is ripe for demolishment. The building in the background is certainly my idea of architectural worth. If they were deemed historic enough then English Heritage would have listed some, but there are no Grade II buildings around the NOMA area to my knowledge.

I wouldn't say Spinningfields has been disappointing, more underwhelming. The problem is, it is an up-market area of town which suits a minority than a majority. We have to be realistic, it will never be a Market Street unless some banks at Canary Wharf decide to open some large well-paid jobs in Manchester. There are nice parts to Spinningfields, but it will always be quieter like King Street has been for years.

Yes I would agree and say most of your points are valid. I’m wholeheartedly for the preservation of warehouse buildings when they function coherently as part of a street, but when they sit lonely, around a soon-to-be modern development, they’re going to look very odd, and not even in a quirky way.

The photo taken from Miller Street doesn’t do justice to the remaining warehouse building which, were the abusive render on the front removed, could quite easily be incorporated into a Carver’s Warehouse-style office development that retains the adjoining Ducie Bridge Pub as well. It could even become an interesting Dukes 92/Albert Shed-style bar and restaurant scheme with added beer garden onto the public realm and views of the new headquarters.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8614/oldgeorgiantownhouseand.jpg I completely understand preserving old buildings - but they have to have historical or architectural value too. I'm all for restoring old buildings in Manchester. There are many I can name off the top of my head which should be restored such as London Road, Barnes Hospital near the A34, Gateway House etc.

It just looks dingy to me and just looks 'past it' to me. Compare Parkers Hotel in the background of this image and you soon understand some old buildings have a timeless quality - some just don't and the time has come for something new and move on.

Using your criteria though JS1000, wouldn't most of the NQ get the wrecking ball treatment?
Again using the same criteria, much of Castlefield would have been demolished years ago. Actually some of it was more's the pity.

I think Long Ripple has hit the nail on the head in pointing out that NOMA (shudder) should avoid becoming another Spinningfields devoid of any character. As has already been pointed out, only the Oast House has that quirkiness that makes the place worth going to unless you work there.

Take a proper look at that tired old building. Imagine it with that horrible rendering off and the fabric spruced up and lively again.
As I've already said it's a project I'd put my own money into if I had the time - assuming it's structurally sound.

Sadly I can see 'asset value maximization' bean counters in the Co-op deciding that the plot would 'yield' more with a MSCP on it.
More goodbye Manchester, hello corporate clone town

Using your criteria though JS1000, wouldn't most of the NQ get the wrecking ball treatment?
Again using the same criteria, much of Castlefield would have been demolished years ago. Actually some of it was more's the pity.

I think Long Ripple has hit the nail on the head in pointing out that NOMA (shudder) should avoid becoming another Spinningfields devoid of any character. As has already been pointed out, only the Oast House has that quirkiness that makes the place worth going to unless you work there.

Take a proper look at that tired old building. Imagine it with that horrible rendering off and the fabric spruced up and lively again.
As I've already said it's a project I'd put my own money into if I had the time - assuming it's structurally sound.

Sadly I can see 'asset value maximization' bean counters in the Co-op deciding that the plot would 'yield' more with a MSCP on it.
More goodbye Manchester, hello corporate clone townPeople need to understand that Spinningfields caters for only a few i.e. upmarket stores in what is essentially a working class city and not like a rich part of London like Canary Wharf. It will never be a thriving place like Market Street or Northern Quarter. You can talk about the Oast House, but even a pint there is £4+ & its actually a new build. NOMA is totally different. People live in apartments nearby, it is right next to Manchester Victoria (which will become the new route between Liverpool & Leeds), good efforts are being made to landscape the area.

Engels described the area as 'hell on earth'. I don't see the point in preserving industrial warehouse remnants of that dark, depressing age. A body was found dumped in a carpet on the Angel Square building site in 2010 which is believed to have been there for up 40 years - that's how much this area of Manchester has been forgotten and needs regeneration. Probably only Ashton House & Parker's Hotel are the only two buildings that should survive. I can understand people saying "its need to be quirky to be more attractive, a charm etc." but its very difficult to see how the current site, including the dilapidated warehouse could do that.

And to compare the area around Angel Meadows to Castlefield is crazy. These Merchants Warehouses are fantastic architecturally.
http://www.manchesterisace.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/DSC_0437.jpg

This is not:
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8614/oldgeorgiantownhouseand.jpg

But check out the old photos of Castlefield ........just to see what can be possible with a bit of imagination.
It was in far worse condition than anything around this area. Many would have bulldozed the whole lot. Fortunately it was not.

You need to be able to see through the cosmetic and the here and now.
I've made a very good living out of doing that.

I know the Oast House is a new build but it was designed and built to give character and quirkiness that didn't exist. In the case of NOMA the quirkiness is ready built in the form of this warehouse and the pub.

Probably an academic argument anyway as the accountants will have the last say.

Spinningfields lacks character you say. Well it's modern, but not everything modern lacks character. The front piece of Spinningfields on Deansgate next to the John Rylands building is a great piece of design. It looks and feels vibrant.

Maybe it's not a good idea for NOMA to model itself on Spinningfields as it does not have the geographical advantage of Deansgate, Albert Square and the River Irwell. I would like to see the clearance of the car parks and a green open space like that which surrounds Urbis and the Cathedral. That would be a much more welcoming gateway to the City than what we have now.

Еще похоже вместе с мостом на глубокую деревянную ложку.
http://www.jycm.info/xiaowang18.jpg

...And to compare the area around Angel Meadows to Castlefield is crazy. These Merchants Warehouses are fantastic architecturally.
http://www.manchesterisace.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/DSC_0437.jpg

This is not:
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8614/oldgeorgiantownhouseand.jpgWell said that man.

And to compare the area around Angel Meadows to Castlefield is crazy. These Merchants Warehouses are fantastic architecturally.

...This is not:

But with some imagination it COULD be something like this

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8454/7939336362_de6457c6b3_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71054856@N08/7939336362/)
Merchants Warehouse (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71054856@N08/7939336362/) by LongRipple (http://www.flickr.com/people/71054856@N08/), on Flickr

(Ian Simpson’s Merchant’s Warehouse)

or this

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8181/7939336228_53bed11bba_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71054856@N08/7939336228/)
Alberts Shed (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71054856@N08/7939336228/) by LongRipple (http://www.flickr.com/people/71054856@N08/), on Flickr

(Stephenson Bell’s Albert Shed/Dukes 92)


Whether you appreciate the aesthetic value of the warehouse next to the Ducie Bridge it cannot be argued that the pub itself has no historic merit (or has outlived its potential) to justify demolition.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8030/7939336084_cbb3f6e70d_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71054856@N08/7939336084/)
Ducie Bridge (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71054856@N08/7939336084/) by LongRipple (http://www.flickr.com/people/71054856@N08/), on Flickr

How the Co-op would tally the destruction of another perfectly functioning building (after removing the Crown & Cushion Pub) with its social, ecological and environmental ethos is anyone’s guess.

Probably an academic argument anyway as the accountants will have the last say.

The fact the Co-op own the entire acreage and thus can control what gets built (rather than the usual process of negotiating with smaller land owners seeking maximimum return on smaller plots) somewhat negates the economic arguments for needing to maximise the revenue on this plot. Any losses here could be attained by building higher elsewhere on the site.

Anyway, the Co-op should be concentrating efforts on filling and redeveloping the soon-to-be vacated Listed Estate and Shudehill areas of the NOMA project, to bridge what will become a worrying gap in the transitory route connecting the New HQ with the rest of the city before even considering what might be best to attract people to the Miller St site.

Here are some photos of Castlefield in the 1970's for illustrative purposes.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2p8gh.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/9tesmr.jpg

Seems the 'because the building is old it should saved' gang is on here at the moment. I stand by my statement, the buildings around Redbank/Irk Valley have very little historic value and neither do they have architectural quality or quirkiness.

I don't think people should worry too much, Parker's Hotel and Ashton Hotel will remain (rightly so) and will fringe the development site. Likewise Hanover Building will renovated so historical buildings will still remain. But to compare the area and warehouses to Castlefield is ridiculous. The area around NOMA is dark, dreary and depressing with an overgrown viaduct to complete the drabness of a derelict area. Castlefield was still pretty much in one piece with many warehouses still remaining, most of which were very charming.

If you feel so strongly about it then email the council or architects. I know 3DReid are the lead architects, Mike Hitchmough I believe who occasionally posts on here. I know Ian Simpson has put in a submission, I've seen him surveying the area late last year. I think he would probably agree with me that there is little that can be done with that run of the mill warehouse.

It's not a "run-of-the-mill" warehouse (and its architectural merit is obvious), it's actually a type of warehouse that's extremely rare now; these types of warehouses are adjoined to a town house in which the owner of the warehouse would live. There's a handful of these types of warehouses still extant in Liverpool, for example, but as far as I'm aware, this particular warehouse is the last of its kind left in Manchester.

This looks to be a recent addition to Mecanoo's website, for the public realm design.

Zoning plan for NOMA site (http://www.mecanoo.nl/Default.aspx?tabid=116&DetailId=886&pcode=A534)

http://i46.tinypic.com/10glk5t.jpg (http://www.mecanoo.nl/Default.aspx?tabid=135&pcode=A534&subs=false)

I don't think people should worry too much, Parker's Hotel and Ashton Hotel will remain (rightly so) and will fringe the development site.

I have read somewhere that what is now Parker's Hotel was once the HQ of the CIS - before they moved to the CIS Tower in the early 1960s. Does anybody know if this is correct?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8455/8013017688_f9ebdc662d_h.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dean_capri_2-8/8013017688/

Shame the pictures aren't sharp.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8449/8010065760_09ff89c88e_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8443/8010055001_f1051a3f88_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8443/8010055001_f1051a3f88_b.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/loodealer/8010065760/

I have read somewhere that what is now Parker's Hotel was once the HQ of the CIS - before they moved to the CIS Tower in the early 1960s. Does anybody know if this is correct?Yes, from 1908 until 1962. They continued to use the building until it was sold to the hotel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_Street,_Manchester

if you missed it, this article in the guardian by the great Jonathan Meades articulates what some on this forum fear is happening to manchester with developments such as spinningfields and noma:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2012/sep/18/architects-cities-jonathan-meades

if you missed it, this article in the guardian by the great Jonathan Meades articulates what some on this forum fear is happening to manchester with developments such as spinningfields and noma:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2012/sep/18/architects-cities-jonathan-meadesSo he would rather fill the space with "supermarket trolleys in toxic canals, rotting foxes, used condoms, pitta bread with green mould, polythene bags caught on branches and billowing like windsocks..." to name but several. Pompous twaddle.

if you missed it, this article in the guardian by the great Jonathan Meades articulates what some on this forum fear is happening to manchester with developments such as spinningfields and noma:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2012/sep/18/architects-cities-jonathan-meadesObviously plugging his book...

The roof of l'Unité is a transcendent work: it is as though Odysseus is beside you. In a few gestures, it summons the entirety of the Mediterranean's mythic history. It is exhilarating and humbling, it occasions aesthetic bliss. It demonstrates the beatific power of great art, great architecture.Pretentious twaddle, looks like a jumped up multi-storey car park to me...

His thesaurus was working overtime when he wrote that wasn't it? What a load of pretentious bollocks the man makes no sense whatsoever. #pointless :)

<pretentious twaddle>

The excerpt from the Grauniad is a poor (and deliberately provocative, one might argue) reflection of the rest of the new book in terms of his general style of work. Meades' often deliberately contradictory and controversial views (and indeed lifestyle choices - he lives in the Unite d'Habitation despite bemoaning Corbusier's work a decade beforehand) reinforce the intended wry lack of seriousness within his essays.

His work focuses on the the minutiae and minor sideshows of life that are either ignored by mainstream society or overinflated by prestige, pomposity and ego. His arguments are deliberately vague and convoluted. His conclusions (if there are any) are rarely supported in anything other than opinion. His writing serves to reinforce this absence of solemnity by illustrating his work with whimsical flights of fancy and humorous asides. In short, his writing, like his subject matter, is not meant to be taken too seriously.

His art and worth as a writer lie in creating and provoking readers (and viewers) to challenge their own established and received beliefs in terms of architecture, planning, politics, and place. This can surely only be a "good thing".

</pretentious twaddle>

:)

Best,
Slip

Meades is the most accurate, savviest and certainly the funniest chronicler of urban regeneration. Appropriately the patron of Manchester Modernist Society. More Meades, less Splash, less Simpson...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpLaZtWKOqA

The guy is a caricature of an art critic worthy of a slot on the Chris Morris’s Day Today (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_Today) satire program.

In the same way that Private Eye is the only print media outlet that really gives insight to the corruption and folly of the system, the self-knowing sneery satirical delivery ultimately becomes a tool for the maintaining of the status quo- who would bother to engage with such polemicists?

Meades merely exacerbates the intellectual dumbing down of society by being too elitist much like Brian Sewell criticising the YBAs.

He is evidently desperate to be seen as the new Robert Hughes.

It’s interesting how he lauds the Unite d'habitation in Marseilles of today in contrast to Hughes who was particularly scathing on his visit during the early 1980’s. That building at the time had failed to live up to the utopian vision of Le Corbusier with the nursery closed, most of the shop units unoccupied and a general decay set in. I understand it now has become an exclusive address and the upper middle class community within has been revitalised (aided presumably due to collection of management fees). It is also helped by the fact that it has spectacular views of the Mediterranean allowing one to ignore the wider decay around- much like Urban Splash’s Midland Hote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midland_Hotel,_Morecambe)l does with Morecambe Bay.

Meades does make interesting points about regeneration, with Mancunian Buildings such as Chips in New Islington or Skyline Central borne of similar ideal as the Unite d'habitation; A style, summed up by one of the respondees to the article as having “no sense of fit or cohesion, just this rather ego-laden I-wuz-ere, fuck-you architecture that shits on the past simply because it's not the present. “

I.e. better to be in the exclusive pool taking a piss rather than on the outside pissing in an outside toilet.

The Unite d'habitation has been regenerated by its historical place in modernist architect. I doubt the likes of Will Alsop’s oeuvre will have the same appeal 60yrs down the line especially once the poor construction materials are failing, the lifts are broken, the "ultra modern" heating system is kaput and the management fees dried up.

These were the issues that blighted the Hulme Crescents and Fort Ardwick and one which seem eerily present in many of the new schemes around Manchester including New Islington and Green Quarter. How the NOMA estate lives up to its neo-socialist rhetoric remains to be presented.

We need people like Jonathan Meades and I am glad that he does what he does. He was in Manchester on Thursday for the book launch at the International Anthony Burgess Foundation - invited by the manchester modernists.

The evening wasn't a total success. Meades was interesting, but the structure was that of an interview and the interviewer talked too much for my liking. He didn't say much about Manchester, but what I took away from Meades was the question that should be applied to new developments; would it be better if it were not built? I entirely agree with him about the Olympic Park.

In the case of One Angel Square I would answer no, but not hell-no! Not yet anyway. I am less certain about the plans for the rest of NOMA and I hate that [pretentious] name. There are some great buildings on the co-operative estate and while these are listed and will be staying - they may take a bit of a kicking or find something entirely inappropriate wedged into the ground floor.

I do feel I understand the basic concept of 'decay with vitality' that Meades mentions - not to the same extent as his description of the Olympic Park site but there are areas in Greater Manchester and indeed the UK at large, that have no obvious attractive aesthetics but that I find attractive nontheless. In a similar way, I don't rate the Beetham Tower aesthetically but I'm glad it's there, as a landmark.

But I can't see how his littered utopia of filth and dangerous trash can be any way preferable to cleaned up landscapes, even if they are sterile by his standards.

To me, every area of Manchester that has been redeveloped since '96 has been an improvement. Even if not particularly beautiful, developments like 1 Angel Square are much better than the tip that was Angel Meadows.

^^ I used to LOVE just wandering around the decay and emptiness of Ancoats in the late nineties/early noughties. I don't feel the same bond for the place now, as weird as I know that sounds, but you cannot deny that the regeneration that has happened, had to happen and is a positive. I guess it's just at halfway house now and when fully redeveloped will be a pretty great place.

The builders were busy taking down some of the hoardings on Miller Street today. You can now see right into the area with good views of the landscaping and those air-vent/sculpture things.

A few of the ring road works.

http://i49.tinypic.com/14j9utd.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/fz19q1.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/k1xena.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/263j9mt.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/23koim1.jpg

I used to love the quirky old bad bend on Angel Street. Looking at the smooth bend that's replaced it makes the old version hard to visualise.

I used to love the quirky old bad bend on Angel Street. Looking at the smooth bend that's replaced it makes the old version hard to visualise.
It was horrendous to drive round though! I didn't realize how close the new road is to the Co-op building.

I'm excited to walk around/drive along here!
Does anyone know when is the Eastbound section is due to open?

I imagine then that the works will soon start on Miller Street for the new Westbound carriageway. The drive round the E'bound curve is going to give the city a real wow factor.

The image of the city one develops from using the Ring Road has undergone a transition over the past 10-15 years and will continue to. The spaces around the ring-road are changing (gradually) from collectively being the a***hole of the city, to a collection of functional, built up but admittedly not world-beating spaces.

This is gradually changing a certain view of the city (which many receive as visitors in their cars/passing through on coaches) from one of a post-industrial wasteland, to a built up, vibrant metropolis. Discuss.

We've already seen (clockwise):
Chapel Street redevelopments (continuing)
Audatious building
Spectrum
Abito
Mirabel Street Apartments
Strangeways Travelodge
Greenquarter
Shudehill Interchange
Crown Plaza
Holiday Inn Express
[That apartment block with the swimming pool on the spikey bit]
[Cross Keys Street, Adlington Street building]
Band On The Wall
The Workshop (is it called? Tib Street)
Ancoats Redevelopments
42nd Street Building
The Urban Exchange
ISIS
Chips
Milliners Wharf
New Islington Tram Stop
Extension to Piccadilly Village/Chapeltown Street Apartments
Eastbank residential scheme
PC World Building
McDonald Hotel Redevelopment
Holiday Inn, Oxford Road
17 New Wakefield Street
Manchester Student Village apartments
MMU Business School
Lumiere
St George's Apartments
New Manchester 'M' branded LED screens.

And we're set to see (clockwise):
New Bailey Development
Sillavan Way Residential scheme
Victoria redevelopment
Angel Square
Rest of NOMA (Existing Co-Op buildings south of Miller Street)
Smithfield Market redevelopment (please god)
Nuovo (if it ever re-starts)
Redevelopment of Central Retail Park
Fabrica/Ibis Budget
Manchester University North Campus Redevelopment
First Street
River Street Tower
MMU Hulme campus (view from the Mancunian Way)
Potato Wharf Completion (If ever)
Granada Studios complex redevelopment

By 2020, a daily stream of thousands of motorists continuously circling the MSIRR with their gobs open will be commonplace. :nuts:

I only hope the new Manchester City training facility with new sixth form college, leisure facility will encourage those to achieve. For me that is real regeneration - not a supercasino.

We shouldn't delude ourselves. We still have a donut of deprivation around Manchester which is not good. The gap between the well off and less well off is very pronounced in Manchester. You only have to come on a train into Manchester to realise that.

The one with the swimming pool is Skyline Central. Nuovo and Potato Wharf are rumored to have possible March and April restarts.

On City's training ground and other facilities. I believe it would be a great area for Manchesters basketball team to make its name again but on a much smaller scale. They've been getting crowds of over a 1,000 for some games. A sound business plan with a little promotion with the young local team they've built up over the last few years would work a treat. Much like the sustainable success of Manchesters ice Hockey team in Alti.

By 2020, a daily stream of thousands of motorists continuously circling the MSIRR with their gobs open will be commonplace. :nuts:Unless they sort out Trinity Way / Chapel Street junction motorists will be sat in a rush hour traffic jam and not continually circling. Maybe they'll have more time to admire the architecture...

Tarmac is being applied to the new section of ringroad today, Hoorah!

I used to love the quirky old bad bend on Angel Street. Looking at the smooth bend that's replaced it makes the old version hard to visualise.

Let LS Lowry re-imagine it for you then.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8473/8116868612_8704755688.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71054856@N08/8116868612/)
st-michaels (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71054856@N08/8116868612/) by LongRipple (http://www.flickr.com/people/71054856@N08/), on Flickr

A quick couple from me taken yesterday afternoon.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/IMG_20121108_124249.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/IMG_20121108_123418.jpg

Coming along quite nicely

There’s some real wrecking ball fodder in the above picture.

There’s some real wrecking ball fodder in the above picture. Pretty cheap stuff. Can't see it lasting more than a few decades. I think MCC made the right call when re-routing this road around the building. Miller Street is a nasty road really, glad to see it going to one-way only.

There’s some real wrecking ball fodder in the above picture.

All those involved in the design and sanctioning of building those flats on the side of the Grade II Listed Parker's Hotel should be strapped to the side of the wrecking ball as well.

^^ I used to LOVE just wandering around the decay and emptiness of Ancoats in the late nineties/early noughties. I don't feel the same bond for the place now, as weird as I know that sounds, but you cannot deny that the regeneration that has happened, had to happen and is a positive. I guess it's just at halfway house now and when fully redeveloped will be a pretty great place.


So did I and I wasn't living here. I always hoped it would be re generated. And look now it will!

Tremendous picture Tony

The new traffic signals have been switched on now at Corporation Street and Miller Street. Most work has now moved to the Northern end of the Road X, still traffic chaos!

Docs are up.

100005/FO/2012/C1 | External alterations to restore and refurbish building to accommodate office (Class B1)use (floors 1 to 6), shop (Class A1) use, or financial and professional services (Class A2) use or restaurant and cafe use or (Class A3) (ground floor and basement) or commercial storage space (Class B8) (upper and lower basement) including works to open connection between Hanover Street and Balloon Street within covered atrium, insert bridge links within atrium , alterations to facades including windows and entrances, addition of roof level extension and plant room. | Land Bounded By Corporation Street Hanover House And E Block Hanover Street Federation Street And Balloon Street Manchester M4 4BB

http://www.publicaccess.manchester.gov.uk/associateddocs/MCCList1.aspx?100005/FO/2012/C1

I wonder if they're still planning on having a 'Borough-style market?' :)

That's the Hanover app back out for consultation. A few amendments to the ground floor elevation, alterations to the existing facade, MCC planning/conservation panel called the previous design pastiche.

The amended scheme revises the original submission architecturally by removing the existing stone transom and mullions to allow a modern projecting, square plate glass bays, together with re-positioned retail entrances

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Hanover_Building%2C_Manchester.jpg
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hanover_Building,_Manchester.jpg)

Previous:
http://i50.tinypic.com/2gwztwn.jpg

Updated:
http://i48.tinypic.com/2wco03p.jpg

Retains an element of granite plinth under the bays.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2a0clmt.jpg

Those silhouettes :sly:

http://i45.tinypic.com/14ik1dt.jpg http://i47.tinypic.com/2ly1gmh.jpg


Bonus pic of the bridges (RAL 3001 signal red).

http://i48.tinypic.com/bh0y2w.jpg
.

Docs are up.

Do you think that the new extended bank HQ could be housed here.

The Hanover Building app (http://pa.manchester.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=M7LY23BC03M00) has been approved. Showing 'Committee Decision' but it looks to have been delegated.

NOMA & 1 Angel Square are shortlisted in a couple of categories at the MIPIM awards next month,
http://blog.mipimworld.com/2013/01/mipim-awards-2013-finalists-announced
.

The Hanover Building app (http://pa.manchester.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=M7LY23BC03M00) has been approved. Showing 'Committee Decision' but it looks to have been delegated

Wasn't the Hanover Building renovated by the now-defunct Roger Stephenson Architects?

That's the Hanover app back out for consultation. A few amendments to the ground floor elevation, alterations to the existing facade, MCC planning/conservation panel called the previous design pastiche. I feel irritated about this sort of thing. You want to make a change to an existing building that's in keeping with the original, but people call it "pastiche" and make you do something that isn't at all sympathetic. That's the English Heritage "carbuncle" logic that ends up defacing nice old buildings.

It's the on going trend for historic buildings to tell a ' story' as they like to say. So the building shows that any addition shows that it was built at a different time. I'm not entirely for that either as some new add ons do look bad.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Hanover_Building%2C_Manchester.jpg
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hanover_Building,_Manchester.jpg)



Whilst I do love this building, as I've said before 'only in a proper city', I've only just twigged what is 'not quite right' with it.....

The top floor with the high stone arches: it looks like there might have been real windows filling those arches at one point and in later years, smaller oblong ones have been added and the space above bricked up. I can't imagine the architect who would lavish some much love in to a design like this would have dreamed it that way. Similarly, the top windows of the 'turret' are bricked up.
Do any of the more architecturally literate amongst us know how this used to be?

The windows at the top that are currently bricked in will be restored as windows as part of the refurbishment plans.

They'll also be upward lighting installed. I think every old building in Manchester should have upward lighting - particulary around Piccadilly Gardens.

If the arched windows at the top of the building are made into glass windows,that will make quite a difference to the look of whole building for the better. Getting people to look up at it and notice it,is a different matter.

The windows at the top that are currently bricked in will be restored as windows as part of the refurbishment plans.


:cheers:
Chuffed about that.
More lookin up for me then hey

:cheers:
Chuffed about that.
More lookin up for me then hey

:)

Pages 25 and 26 have renders

http://www.publicaccess.manchester.gov.uk/associateddocs/selecteddoc.aspx?100005-dsx-0001.pdf

The top floor with the high stone arches: it looks like there might have been real windows filling those arches at one point and in later years, smaller oblong ones have been added and the space above bricked up. I can't imagine the architect who would lavish some much love in to a design like this would have dreamed it that way. Similarly, the top windows of the 'turret' are bricked up.
Do any of the more architecturally literate amongst us know how this used to be?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8381/8466400316_c3d0c418c1.jpg (http://images.manchester.gov.uk/Display.php?irn=3320&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&QueryName=BasicQuery&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&Restriction=&StartAt=1&Anywhere=SummaryData|AdmWebMetadata&QueryTerms=corporation+st&QueryOption=Anywhere&Submit=Search&EMUSESSID=6576922d230226b6c2d19125fa607296&__utma=92605445.688545587.1360615277.1360615277.1360615277.1&__utmb=92605445.32.10.1360615277&__utmc=92605445&__utmz=92605445.1360615277.1.1.utmcsr%3D%28direct%29|utmccn%3D%28direct%29|utmcmd%3D%28none%29)
Manchester Local Image Collection (http://images.manchester.gov.uk/Display.php?irn=3320&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&QueryName=BasicQuery&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&Restriction=&StartAt=1&Anywhere=SummaryData|AdmWebMetadata&QueryTerms=corporation+st&QueryOption=Anywhere&Submit=Search&EMUSESSID=6576922d230226b6c2d19125fa607296&__utma=92605445.688545587.1360615277.1360615277.1360615277.1&__utmb=92605445.32.10.1360615277&__utmc=92605445&__utmz=92605445.1360615277.1.1.utmcsr%3D%28direct%29|utmccn%3D%28direct%29|utmcmd%3D%28none%29)

This picture is dated 1940. The Miller St area (upon which the New HQ stands- formerly Baxendales) and nearby Holyoake House suffered extensive bombing during the Blitz soon after- in December of that year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fte9DpZRfwo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fte9DpZRfwo)

I would speculate the windows were a casualty of that incident.
.

I concur Mr Ripple. I would cautiously expand that speculation to say the roof and top floor were probably seriously damaged too, later rebuilt at a lower height and of a "less adventurous" construction. Note that many of the features along the roofs edge, including the top of the turret, have also gone.

Here they are in render-land,

http://www.rogerstephenson-studio.co.uk/images/portfolio/hanover-building/hanover-building-1.jpg
http://www.rogerstephenson-studio.co.uk/portfolio/hanover-building.html

http://i46.tinypic.com/23k6c00.jpg

Those red things...
Existing watertower heads to be fully refurbished and painted red. External skin to have new cut apertures back lit to form lighting feature Subject to opening up works.

Renderland really is a great place - always sunny!

But, erm... not really in agreement with those, um, water towers!!!!

Miller Street miniature version was taking shape today, shame at the moment the traffic and roads are a shambles!! :lol:

[QUOTE=LongRipple;100172751][/URL]
[URL="http://images.manchester.gov.uk/Display.php?irn=3320&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&QueryName=BasicQuery&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&Restriction=&StartAt=1&Anywhere=SummaryData|AdmWebMetadata&QueryTerms=corporation+st&QueryOption=Anywhere&Submit=Search&EMUSESSID=6576922d230226b6c2d19125fa607296&__utma=92605445.688545587.1360615277.1360615277.1360615277.1&__utmb=92605445.32.10.1360615277&__utmc=92605445&__utmz=92605445.1360615277.1.1.utmcsr%3D%28direct%29|utmccn%3D%28direct%29|utmcmd%3D%28none%29"]Manchester Local Image Collection (http://images.manchester.gov.uk/Display.php?irn=3320&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&QueryName=BasicQuery&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&Restriction=&StartAt=1&Anywhere=SummaryData|AdmWebMetadata&QueryTerms=corporation+st&QueryOption=Anywhere&Submit=Search&EMUSESSID=6576922d230226b6c2d19125fa607296&__utma=92605445.688545587.1360615277.1360615277.1360615277.1&__utmb=92605445.32.10.1360615277&__utmc=92605445&__utmz=92605445.1360615277.1.1.utmcsr%3D%28direct%29|utmccn%3D%28direct%29|utmcmd%3D%28none%29)

(upon which the New HQ stands- formerly Baxendales) .

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fte9DpZRfwo)
Now that in itself is very interesting, I didnt know that that was where Baxendales was, Baxendales also was a Manchester iconic company,and therefore nice that another one now stands on the same site.
I wonder when the Baxendales building was demolished.
.

I feel irritated about this sort of thing. You want to make a change to an existing building that's in keeping with the original, but people call it "pastiche" and make you do something that isn't at all sympathetic. That's the English Heritage "carbuncle" logic that ends up defacing nice old buildings. MCC planning dept and English Heritage need to go to London and see what magic architects have worked on old buildings similar to Hanover. The Apple store on Regent Street springs to mind.

Typical civil servants I guess. Incredible how they approved a piece of glass carbuncle between two Grade II* buildings yet have objections to what looks like a great renovation.

Despicable idiots.

[QUOTE=LongRipple;100172751]
Manchester Local Image Collection (http://images.manchester.gov.uk/Display.php?irn=3320&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&QueryName=BasicQuery&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&Restriction=&StartAt=1&Anywhere=SummaryData|AdmWebMetadata&QueryTerms=corporation+st&QueryOption=Anywhere&Submit=Search&EMUSESSID=6576922d230226b6c2d19125fa607296&__utma=92605445.688545587.1360615277.1360615277.1360615277.1&__utmb=92605445.32.10.1360615277&__utmc=92605445&__utmz=92605445.1360615277.1.1.utmcsr%3D%28direct%29|utmccn%3D%28direct%29|utmcmd%3D%28none%29)

(upon which the New HQ stands- formerly Baxendales) .

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fte9DpZRfwo)
Now that in itself is very interesting, I didnt know that that was where Baxendales was, Baxendales also was a Manchester iconic company,and therefore nice that another one now stands on the same site.
I wonder when the Baxendales building was demolished.
.

Baxendale & Co. Limited

Baxendale & Co. was a firm of hardware manufacturers and suppliers that was established in 1863 by Laban Baxendale and his future brother-in-law, Alfred Innes.

The company was originally based in Salford, Greater Manchester, but in 1892 moved to Shudehill Mill (commonly known as Arkwright's Mill) in Miller Street, Manchester where it remained until the building was destroyed in the Blitz in 1940.

By 1914 Baxendales were described as furniture, lead, and electrical manufacturers as well as hardware and builders' merchants. The business, which had expanded to Liverpool, Edinburgh, and Dublin, had a staff of 1,250.http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8100/8465635359_d4d51d7b24.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71054856@N08/8465635359/)

Actually they rebuilt some of it after the war on the junction of Dantzic St and Miller St. It lasted until at least 1964 when this picture was shot.

Typing "Baxendales" in the Local Image Collection search engine brings up numerous shots of both the Blitz damage to the area and the later buildings.

The large building next door was the Union Cold Storage Co. that replaced the Iceplant Building in Ancoats (recently converted into apartments) as purveyors of ice for Italian icecream men of Market St no doubt and George Best's drinks!
.

That photograph must surely be pre 1964, or is it my bad eye sight but are the overhead lines still up from the original tramway.
Or are they for the trolly buses which I thought had also finished before that date.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8381/8466400316_c3d0c418c1.jpg (http://images.manchester.gov.uk/Display.php?irn=3320&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&QueryName=BasicQuery&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&Restriction=&StartAt=1&Anywhere=SummaryData|AdmWebMetadata&QueryTerms=corporation+st&QueryOption=Anywhere&Submit=Search&EMUSESSID=6576922d230226b6c2d19125fa607296&__utma=92605445.688545587.1360615277.1360615277.1360615277.1&__utmb=92605445.32.10.1360615277&__utmc=92605445&__utmz=92605445.1360615277.1.1.utmcsr%3D%28direct%29|utmccn%3D%28direct%29|utmcmd%3D%28none%29)
Manchester Local Image Collection (http://images.manchester.gov.uk/Display.php?irn=3320&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&QueryName=BasicQuery&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&Restriction=&StartAt=1&Anywhere=SummaryData|AdmWebMetadata&QueryTerms=corporation+st&QueryOption=Anywhere&Submit=Search&EMUSESSID=6576922d230226b6c2d19125fa607296&__utma=92605445.688545587.1360615277.1360615277.1360615277.1&__utmb=92605445.32.10.1360615277&__utmc=92605445&__utmz=92605445.1360615277.1.1.utmcsr%3D%28direct%29|utmccn%3D%28direct%29|utmcmd%3D%28none%29)

.

Thanks for all replies. It's the depth of historical knowledge on this site that impresses me most I think.
I like the token sandbags dotted around at street level. Of course they had no idea what an air raid might be like. Damned shame the cupola was lost of the top of the turret. The original was even better than I thought.

Come on Co-Op get it restored to it's former glory, you know you want to.

Can't say I'm enthused by the blocks of red cheese on the roof in the renders.:lol:

That photograph must surely be pre 1964, or is it my bad eye sight but are the overhead lines still up from the original tramway.
Or are they for the trolly buses which I thought had also finished before that date.

They are for trolley buses - you can see there's two pairs of overhead wires and no tram tracks in the road. Trolleybuses lasted until 1966.

They are for trolley buses - you can see there's two pairs of overhead wires and no tram tracks in the road. Trolleybuses lasted until 1966.

Cheers loweskid hadn't realised that the trollies lasted so long.

That photograph must surely be pre 1964, or is it my bad eye sight but are the overhead lines still up from the original tramway.

You are right- August 1958 (L.Kaye).

The Transport Museum (http://www.gmts.co.uk/) in Cheetham Hill still has a couple of examples of Trolley Buses.
.

Can't say I'm enthused by the blocks of red cheese

http://i45.tinypic.com/14ik1dt.jpg


Perhaps the introduction of the colour RED has a function; to draw people to this building- Amsterdam-style?
.

:lol::lol::lol:

http://www.propertyweek.com/news/chinese-in-landmark-%C2%A3155m-regional-deal/5050213.article


Chinese in landmark £155m regional deal

12 February 2013 | By Nick Johnstone

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Co-op, Manchester

A Chinese sovereign wealth fund is thought to be part of a consortium of investors that has bought into the Co-Operative Group’s huge new headquarters building in Manchester.

PropertyWeek.com understands that Ginkgo Tree Investment, a London-registered Chinese state-owned fund, is among the parties that is this week thought to be completing on the £155m purchase of the building, One Angel Square.

The deal, which is set to be announced tomorrow, is an important one for the market – it is the first time that the current wave of Far eastern investors targeting UK property have taken the plunge in the regional office market, and sees a major Chinese fund make a significant investment in Manchester.

The deal is being fronted by fund manager RREEF, as revealed by Property Week, which has been at the forefront in terms of bringing Far eastern investors to the UK.

It is thought several other Far Eastern investors, including a Malaysian pension fund, have taken stakes in the deal, which yield just less that 6% on an index-linked 25-year lease.

One Angel Square is a 330,000 sq ft property at the northern end of its proposed 4m sq ft NoMa scheme.

Gingko Tree was incorporated as a UK company in 2009 and is run from the City of London offices of the People’s Bank of China on behalf of its sole shareholder, the Investment Company of the People’s Republic of China (Singapore) – itself an investment vehicle of the Chinese Government’s State Administration of Foreign Exchange.

Jones Lang LaSalle and WHR advised on the sale. All parties declined to comment.

Perhaps the introduction of the colour RED has a function; to draw people to this building- Amsterdam-style?
.

Of course I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about but that bloke on the right with the duck's arse does seem to be taking an unusual interest in the lady in the box :lol:
Maybe I was right all along, it's a cheesy idea

Does anyone know what's going to go where the other side of the carriageway (1 angel sq side) currently is on miller street?

Also anyone any idea when the hotel is due to start? Thought it was to be January.

Up for an award at MIPIM.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8248/8470124805_fde8635b8c_o.jpg

Good find!

http://whrproperty.co.uk/images/MI865_Cam-6-HI-RES-FINAL5.jpg

http://whrproperty.co.uk/images/COOP.jpg


More for the same site - this time from Aedas architects..nice enough but i'm not liking the other in the background opposite Parkers hotel.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-v03hHVtrplI/T9ytOTL7ZjI/AAAAAAAAAL0/C4ZWKiXrgOk/s1600/A4Folio-2012+(highres)_Page_14.jpg

Looks to be a MSCP behind.

Could be Choggs...I was thinking balconies so its residential but you could be right.

The top 2 have been posted before. The bottom one is new. Hmmm. underwhelming. Hopefully whatever is built will be much better. Thanks Man Med.

Im not 100% but I think it was posted on here a while back that the next thing go up would be said multistory.

Yaaaayyy:nuts:

MEN

Co-op launches new deal for firms to locate to NOMA

The Co-operative Group today announced the launch of a special package available to firms looking to locate at its £800m NOMA development.

Businesses will be able to choose what services they want, depending on their own circumstances.

NOMA bosses said that gave companies an alternative to serviced office packages they typically encounter when looking to rent space.

David Pringle, director of NOMA, will make the announcement at the MIPIM property convention in Cannes.

He said: “This is a previously unavailable alternative for occupiers.

“Businesses can be benefit from The Co-operative’s buying power and supply chain - the resources of a £14bn turnover business, directed to support occupiers in NOMA, a suite of options that businesses of all shapes and sizes can benefit from.

“Alternatively, we can work with organisations to design a building that works for them – be it a new build or refurbishment of our listed estate. Likewise, occupiers don’t have to adopt any of these options. This is about providing choice.”

Ruairidh Jackson, director of strategy and development at NOMA, added: “Let’s be very clear – these are not serviced offices in the traditional sense.

“No two businesses are the same and now there is finally a way of addressing that challenge. By putting occupiers in control, we are changing the way that property is provided. At NOMA, it is both building and service.

“You get big fibre, giving you high capacity, real time data transfer to anywhere in the world, and with an associated programme of major transport infrastructure works transforming the site's accessibility, you are connected - to talent and to your markets. This is our entry level offer, but its most other city's dream.”

NOMA will also unveil its new i-Brochure for the Hanover building, which is part of the scheme.

It was built in 1904 by the Co-operative Wholesale Society and it set to be transformed into modern office space.

Situated opposite Victoria Station – which is itself due to undergo a revamp as part of £530m plans to improve the rail network around the city - Hanover will feature 100,000 sq ft of offices, with 30,000 sq ft of retail space on its ground and basement floors.

Mr Pringle added: “This is a really important milestone for NOMA, and marks the beginning of Phase Five of the programme.

“The plans are a brilliantly creative use of one of our heritage buildings, and the first step in unlocking the potential of the Group’s current Manchester complex.”

On the bespoke package of services available to businesses.

Mr Pringle said: “We are living in a new age, where technology is empowering people by giving them greater choice and freedom.

“The world is getting smaller and cities need to compete for investment and talent on the global stage.

“NOMA is leading the way in showing how major regeneration projects can answer these challenges, offering businesses and residents the type of high quality, personal experience they want and showing once again how Manchester is at the forefront of new ideas and innovation.”

That promo film again, shown at MIPIM, no fly-throughs it's just about their 'occupier offer'. I've stolen the graphic, quite like it :cheers:


Zx8QE-rXcMc


Anyway...here's the link to the new brochure with more info on Hanover:

http://www.noma53.com/dl/noma_interactive_brochure.pdf


Don't think anything's changed on this but i'll post it anyway, interesting for phasing, if not for 'estimated delivery time'.

http://i47.tinypic.com/w03k43.jpg


Little thing I noticed, different render of Hanover at street level, the glazed bays don't project out as much.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2lswltu.jpg

I've stolen the graphic, quite like it

It reminds me of one of those multicoloured perspex desk tidy tubes that everyone had on their desks in the 1970's & 80's


That latest render of the Hanover Building looks dreadful. How can English Heritage favour that over the sympathetic symmetry of the original submission?


http://i50.tinypic.com/2lswltu.jpg

Original design:


http://i50.tinypic.com/2gwztwn.jpg

.

Didn't realise that there was to be a second public realm on the Miller St plot. Presumably this will incorporate the Arkwright Mill excavation site?
.

English Heritage have demonstrated perverse views about this kind of thing. If somebody wants to breathe new life into some shabby but classy old building, EH typically insist that anything new must be obviously new and not in keeping with what's currently there. EH have demonstrated other perversity such as getting MCC to chop down hundreds of mature trees to return Alexandra Park to its original state. There's lots of other examples that demonstrate that they're a bunch of high-minded arrogant unaccounable pseuds. I don't know why anybody puts up with them for a minute, or why they continue to get grant-in-aid. IMHO they're not fit for purpose, and need to be replaced by a body that does the job properly.

Taking the mullions straight down to the ground, without any plinth just looked strange to me.

Looked at the plans, they have been amended again per the new render. Final details still subject to agreement.

English Heritage have got what they wanted with the new design, the retention of 2 of the 6 original basement windows, previously all to be removed. So now it steps up from introduced door, to new bay, to retained window.

From the previous proposed square bays, the revised angled glass follows the line of the mullions above. Some middle ground between modern and pastiche.

http://i45.tinypic.com/rc7rx5.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/11ky44o.jpg


Didn't realise that there was to be a second public realm on the Miller St plot. Presumably this will incorporate the Arkwright Mill excavation site?

Yeah, think i've seen it titled Arkwright Square before. Mecanoo, the public realm architects, seem to call it Arkwright Mill Garden.

I wander what they mean by :

MEN
...
with an associated programme of major transport infrastructure works transforming the site's accessibility
...

Exchange squre stop.

English Heritage have demonstrated perverse views about this kind of thing. If somebody wants to breathe new life into some shabby but classy old building, EH typically insist that anything new must be obviously new and not in keeping with what's currently there. EH have demonstrated other perversity such as getting MCC to chop down hundreds of mature trees to return Alexandra Park to its original state. There's lots of other examples that demonstrate that they're a bunch of high-minded arrogant unaccounable pseuds. I don't know why anybody puts up with them for a minute, or why they continue to get grant-in-aid. IMHO they're not fit for purpose, and need to be replaced by a body that does the job properly.

If the two points you make,ie the cutting down of the trees and the point about making things obviously new, then indeed it is perverse, assuming you are accurate,I ask the question, "who is it that writes their rules" and in fact who are they. Hopefully not another quango,if they are a quango,then i have answered my own question, I know very little about them,but if they are not local,then I am with you,lets get rid.

In defence of the tree cutting, parts of Alex Park are very overgrown, and the trees aren't very nice. Think more of large shrubs in an abandoned garden.

In defence of the tree cutting, parts of Alex Park are very overgrown, and the trees aren't very nice. Think more of large shrubs in an abandoned garden.

I havent seen it,but i know the thing you mean.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Hanover_Building%2C_Manchester.jpg


Taking the mullions straight down to the ground, without any plinth just looked strange to me.

...Some middle ground between modern and pastiche.

I agree the design with the mullions straight to the ground wasn't great but at least it aspired to symmetry. Everything that works in this building from top to bottom is about balance (even with losing the cupolas during the war) and harmony of its visual lines.

It would have made more sense to provide (presumably required disabled-friendly) entrances in the corner sections either side, so that the balance between the windows is untouched. The fact that there will be large walk through entrances connecting Balloon St and Hanover St (10 paces round the corner) makes destroying the fabric of the building on Corporation St to incorparate some superfluous doors even more offensive.

THIS middle ground between modern and pastiche is aesthetic barbarism contrived by people with too much power and not enough ability.

Maybe sometimes pastiche just works?
.

Guys, I've added a new thread for the Hanover Building refurbishmen (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1602359)t on the main forum. Seems to be getting a lot of attention (and rightly so, an interesting building) on this thread which is mainly for an overview of the development and the site in general. :cheers:

Schooner: best if you do your own research on English Heritage. For example do a google search on English Heritage and out of touch (http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=english+heritage+%22out+of+touch%22&oq=english+heritage+%22out+of+touch%22&gs_l=hp.3...994.10666.0.10859.41.27.4.9.9.0.271.4055.5j18j4.27.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.6.psy-ab.79bmPscy87E&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43828540,d.d2k&fp=4e753e884ed8bf36&biw=1366&bih=625). They're locked into a mindset that says if you don't agree with me you have no taste and therefore I don't need to listen.

In defence of the tree cutting, parts of Alex Park are very overgrown, and the trees aren't very nice. Think more of large shrubs in an abandoned garden.Come off it Che. Here's one of the before and after pictures. They cut down this avenue of trees because they weren't there originally.

http://savealexandraparkstrees.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/header-before-after3.jpg
http://savealexandraparkstrees.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/header-before-after3.jpg

I agree the design with the mullions straight to the ground wasn't great but at least it aspired to symmetry. Everything that works in this building from top to bottom is about balance (even with losing the cupolas during the war) and harmony of its visual lines...Well said Longripple. After EH's meddling, the proposal is a mishmash, the building's beauty is harmed.

Thnks for the info nq.

The NOMA website has be en updated. NQ may have already posted this info?

Link to the website and the Hanover building brochure is below the screen grabs. Website includes a night render of Noma which I haven't seen before, and 2 before and after aerial models of the Noma site. Not sure if I've seen them TBH.

Note the proposed new roof on Victoria Station.

http://i.imgur.com/TmMiODS.jpg

New layout/buildings?

http://i.imgur.com/0MmBIaX.jpg

http://www.noma53.com/

Lovely.

This week the Co-op confirmed the sale of its Asset Management Business and its Life Assurance Business. And they also announced that the rest of the CIS is up for sale.

What's going to happen to the CIS Tower? A re-brand? Is all this office-space really required. If they don't need it, presumably it will be let?

I guess that's what you get when you have retail people running the group.

I guess that's what you get when you have retail people running the group.

Whats that got to do with the price of fish?

Andrew

I think the reference is to Peter Marks the CEO of the Co-op whose background was Co-op Food.

They are selling their Insurance business to pay for an expanded banking business. I'm not sure why they think they can get a higher rate of profit from that business, than an Insurance Business where they have some level of expertise and reputation. The banking sector is going to be very heavily regulated for years to come.

There seems to be activity on the Rochdale Road side (uphill) of 1 Angel Square. Whether they're just land-scaping or what I'm yet to investigate, but the side has been bordered off.....

There seems to be activity on the Rochdale Road side (uphill) of 1 Angel Square. Whether they're just land-scaping or what I'm yet to investigate, but the side has been bordered off.....

I think it is just to hide what will be carparking for several years hence from the staff and visitors to the new HQ. Similar hoardings cover the area near Parker's Hotel (which should be the multi-storey carpark much sooner). I reckon it just looks neater than leaving the whole area open to the elements and the windswept landfill sites that carparks in Manchester invariably become.

For some reason the final section of pavement halfway along Miller St from Rochdale Road has been tarmaced rather than laid flag stones- looks very odd and scruffy. Presumably, the old two lanes of Miller Street adjoining it will be added to the Co-op Estate.

Anyone know why?
.

I think the reference is to Peter Marks the CEO of the Co-op whose background was Co-op Food.

They are selling their Insurance business to pay for an expanded banking business. I'm not sure why they think they can get a higher rate of profit from that business, than an Insurance Business where they have some level of expertise and reputation. The banking sector is going to be very heavily regulated for years to come.

By neoconservatives? Want to bet your life savings on that?

For some reason the final section of pavement halfway along Miller St from Rochdale Road has been tarmaced rather than laid flag stones- looks very odd and scruffy. Presumably, the old two lanes of Miller Street adjoining it will be added to the Co-op Estate. Anyone know why?

My guess would be that it will be used for future construction traffic and that it will be paved when NoMa has been largely completed.

My guess would be that it will be used for future construction traffic and that it will be paved when NoMa has been largely completed.

I which case they might have put in a drop kerb to create access from Miller St and laid flags as close to any entrance as possible.

From the original designs it would suggest much of the future construction and post-build access would be from the new ringroad (No.10 on the ringroad design).



http://i47.tinypic.com/33m1r0l.jpg

Miller St/Inner Ring Road Scheme:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2s5y61d.jpg
.

I think the reference is to Peter Marks the CEO of the Co-op whose background was Co-op Food.

They are selling their Insurance business to pay for an expanded banking business. I'm not sure why they think they can get a higher rate of profit from that business, than an Insurance Business where they have some level of expertise and reputation. The banking sector is going to be very heavily regulated for years to come.Yes, that's right.

The insurance side may have a reasonable reputation but hasn't been very forward thinking since they lost their home service agents. The bank clearly think they need a critical mass (like the retail group have achieved with mergers) through the Lloyds takeover.

Yes, that's right.

The insurance side may have a reasonable reputation but hasn't been very forward thinking since they lost their home service agents. The bank clearly think they need a critical mass (like the retail group have achieved with mergers) through the Lloyds takeover.

I know its hypothetical at the moment, but if the Co-op got received an acceptable bid for it's insurance unit, what impact would that have on jobs? Would that KO the entire Miller St tower and if so how many jobs would be affected?

It seems to me that NOMA will be dead in the water if Miller Street comes onto the rental market as no one is going to finance more office construction in the area if there is already a glut in the locality

I thought today its actually quite a nice space, even if some of it still a building site. Even render-land seemed to becoming a reality with the nice blue skies.

Still bloody cold though!

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/2_zps8ccd3a02.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/21_zpsff0bcc15.jpg

I know its hypothetical at the moment, but if the Co-op got received an acceptable bid for it's insurance unit, what impact would that have on jobs? Would that KO the entire Miller St tower and if so how many jobs would be affected?

It seems to me that NOMA will be dead in the water if Miller Street comes onto the rental market as no one is going to finance more office construction in the area if there is already a glut in the locality

Interesting point Marvin.
CIS HQ is likely to be somewhere else post sale. That might release a lot more office space than can be absorbed.

On the other hand, I'm not sure of the quality of the Miller St office space but I doubt it's Grade A.
If NOMA is pushing Grade A then it could be two different markets.

More worrying is the absolute lack of anything else happening on the NOMA site. What's happened to the hotel? The MSCP?
The Co=op is strapped for cash at the moment hence the fire sale of CIS in order to raise the necessary funding for the Lloyds branches.

On the other hand, I'm not sure of the quality of the Miller St office space but I doubt it's Grade A.

I recall somwhere in the pre-planning that they were quoting £300million + to bring the existing Co-op Estate up to modern Grade A status but didn't necessarily deliver the best working environment for a single business.

Hence why building a brand new £100million office on their own cheap adjacent land was a no-brainer.
.

I thought today its actually quite a nice space, even if some of it still a building site. Even render-land seemed to becoming a reality with the nice blue skies.

Still bloody cold though!

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/2_zps8ccd3a02.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/21_zpsff0bcc15.jpg

Critically appraising this virtually completed project as is my wont... stop groaning at the back!

I wouldn’t say it’s the most fluid space to navigation around to get to the new building with lots of curves from the pedestrian crossing points.

I hope the Co-op employees manage to keep off the grass and landscaping so that it does get “sheep tracks” across like Piccadilly Gardens or at Media city where lazy workers cut 0.6seconds of their commute.

Knowing Miller St to be one of the windiest roads in the city due to CIS tower windsheer, they may need to add some design solution to make the square a nice place to sit in and stop the trees being uprooted. Can’t quite see £12million public money spent so hopefully there is more work to be done.

Some of the sunken areas may have security/ anti-social problems once the shrubs have grown if they create hidden spaces.

The uplighting on the benches look good at night but we all know that the wooden 3x2” benches will last about 3yrs. One can hear the presentation speeches of the architect using the word “sustainable” to describe their use of wood- not in Manchester pal!

I’d kind of hoped for more if I’m honest given Meccanoo’s self-proclaimed “avant-garde architect shtick. Wish we'd got their Nigeria Design, complete with massive elephants (http://www.mecanoo.nl/Default.aspx?tabid=135&pcode=A515&subs=false). Hopefully the bronze cladding around the air vents will provide the interesting central feature that’s missing at the moment.

More trees around the whole estate (as always) would be good and I also think more work needs to be done to define the boundaries of the NOMA estate with different lighting and street furntiture than the usual MCC generic stuff.

Let’s also hope the Bumble Bees in their nest have survived the frost.
.

The planting around the new co-op building is a prime demonstration of the lack of any sort of real planting knowledge in landscape architecture today. The trees are the standard Betula utilis or other such small, short-lived characterless specimens which are all too common in Manchester. The shrub planting is non-existent and the herbaceous layer is plain boring (despite it having only just been planted the species choice is clear). Where is the long term vision of majestic planes or oaks which would help frame the imposing building behind in 50 years time? this was an opportunity which appears to have been ignored. It seems that yet again landscape has been an afterthought.

The planting around the new co-op building is a prime demonstration of the lack of any sort of real planting knowledge in landscape architecture today. The trees are the standard Betula utilis or other such small, short-lived characterless specimens which are all too common in Manchester. The shrub planting is non-existent and the herbaceous layer is plain boring (despite it having only just been planted the species choice is clear). Where is the long term vision of majestic planes or oaks which would help frame the imposing building behind in 50 years time? this was an opportunity which appears to have been ignored. It seems that yet again landscape has been an afterthought.

I guess that's what happens when architects reckon they can do landscape as well, especially avant guarde Dutch ones like Mecanoo- wait till the tulips come up in the Spring!

What should they be planting bearing in mind that MCC hate spending money (after the publicity handshakes) on things like maintenance and leaf collecting?

Seeing Delancey putting trade mark apps in makes me wonder. They're obviously building a brand up.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmownerid/search?domain=1&id=11693&app=0&mark=UK00002654742

Currently involved in a JV with Qatari Diar at the former Olympic village. Keen to see what they've possibly got planned here (or elsewhere in the city) on the 'private rented sector' (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmcomloc/writev/953/prs81.htm) front.

Come on Co-op, let's get started with the Sanguine Hotel, outside of (the soon to be revamped) Victoria station!

Does anybody know, or remember when this should be on sight?

Thanks in advance! :cheers:

The usual long winded legal finance dull stuff I think. Think someone mentioned on here Coop are waiting till they sell off their new headquarters to then gain finance to start the next lot of works or something on those lines.

The project is currently at phase 5 which entails the redevelopment of Hanover Building opposite Manchester Victoria. Construction on the hotel won't start until renovation of Hanover is complete early next year at the earliest.

Dare I say, construction might not on the hotel until early 2015 after the Victoria is renovated and the new Metrolink lines are laid and also bearing in mind Co-op are pretty cash strapped at the moment. There are a lot of mitigating factors which are stopping construction on the hotel at the moment.

Lol said it would be long winded dull finance stuff.

I guess that's what happens when architects reckon they can do landscape as well, especially avant guarde Dutch ones like Mecanoo- wait till the tulips come up in the Spring!

What should they be planting bearing in mind that MCC hate spending money (after the publicity handshakes) on things like maintenance and leaf collecting?

Working in ecology as well as landscape I'm rather biased towards naturalistic planting such as the meadow vegetation at Olympic park. That can be low maintenance and high impact, and I personally think looks good if combined with more formal features such such ornamental grasses and moderate height yew/beech hedging which can be cut once a year. As I've said previously I'm much more in favour of larger, and where possible, native trees and they really should have included some up there. There is a paucity in manchester which is partly due to the industrial history of the city where buildings were built to occupy all of the spaces between streets; but also because many architects don't have a clue about tree species.

The project is currently at phase 5 which entails the redevelopment of Hanover Building opposite Manchester Victoria. Construction on the hotel won't start until renovation of Hanover is complete early next year at the earliest.

Dare I say, construction might not on the hotel until early 2015 after the Victoria is renovated and the new Metrolink lines are laid and also bearing in mind Co-op are pretty cash strapped at the moment. There are a lot of mitigating factors which are stopping construction on the hotel at the moment. As I say that, a day later:

Road goes one-way for Victoria improvements

An important city centre route will temporarily become one-way from Monday (22/04/2013) as part of the multi-million pound upgrade of Victoria station.

A one-way system will be put in place on Withy Grove and Corporation Street from Dantzic Street. It will enable traffic to flow from Shudehill towards Corporation Street, ending at Miller Street.

Vehicles entering the road from the Arndale car park exit will have no restrictions and will be able to turn either left or right onto Withy Grove.

The works will last for approximately 12 to 16 weeks, with signed diversions in place, and come as part of changes to gas mains beneath the roads.

In addition, bus services 88,135 and X35 will be boarded from an additional stop at Shudehill, before Thomas Street and a temporary stop, behind the Co-op on Angel Street.

The taxi rank on Corporation Street, outside Printworks, will continue to operate, but facing the opposite direction.

Businesses and residents near the works have already been contacted by Transport for Greater Manchester with the information. Any further questions can be answered via e-mail - future.metrolink@tfgm.com or by calling 0161 244 1555.

The upgrade of Victoria station is being jointly funded by Network Rail, Manchester City Council and Transport for Greater Manchester. It is set to be complete by 2014.

http://www.tfgm.com/Corporate/media_centre/Pages/News.aspx?articleId=209 Conflicting construction activity at Victoria provides the perfect excuse for cash-strapped Co-op to wait 18 months.

The hotel will definitely happen but come back in early 2015 would be my message (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1440262&page=3).

Darn, I had hoped that it would be completed by 2015. It's a real eye-sore so close to Exchange Square, Printworks NFM/Urbis.

I think it is just to hide what will be carparking for several years hence from the staff and visitors to the new HQ. Similar hoardings cover the area near Parker's Hotel (which should be the multi-storey carpark much sooner). I reckon it just looks neater than leaving the whole area open to the elements and the windswept landfill sites that carparks in Manchester invariably become.

For some reason the final section of pavement halfway along Miller St from Rochdale Road has been tarmaced rather than laid flag stones- looks very odd and scruffy. Presumably, the old two lanes of Miller Street adjoining it will be added to the Co-op Estate.

Anyone know why?
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I guess this is what you are referring to:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MNCksHQWSGY/UYa3fYPxc3I/AAAAAAAAAv0/zqmIGZPg3mY/w701-h526/P1010143.JPG
It does look a bit odd (especially when half of the old Miller St. is still there!).

I noticed that the CiS Tower could do with a bit of an external refurb:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_dHqcxQEhI0/UYa4_27ePtI/AAAAAAAAAwE/3JJ68utPUuA/w701-h526/P1010144.JPG

NOMA planting:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zA1R-M3kR3o/UYa54yRYzkI/AAAAAAAAAwU/tNTJZuM2ODY/w701-h526/P1010145.JPG

I note they have large screen TVs in the foyer now:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tgdlxfjZQUc/UYa6K73FWEI/AAAAAAAAAwc/NgRm4GeDGwM/w701-h526/P1010146.JPG

Paving is of good quality too:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7tnIg0hGqYQ/UYa8txRTh4I/AAAAAAAAAw8/PSXS2uehcj8/w701-h526/P1010148.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_it6aHAISa8/UYa-C5IG8YI/AAAAAAAAAxc/-2PGrI7FfAc/w701-h526/P1010152.JPG

Just a shame about the undeveloped land spoiling the arrangement:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-d7Pdk04VEis/UYa-MEPOeOI/AAAAAAAAAxo/3ZDm-0TKMJA/w701-h526/P1010153.JPG

Mods!!!!

In terms of cash, the situation changes now that the Co Op have withdrawn from buying Lloyds branches.

Back on track.

Yeah self observation to give an anecdotal feel of the area.

The 135 bus flies past the Co Op building on the new road like a devil possessed and then halts unceremonially at the junction with Rochdale Road. Sadly there isn't a stop next to the Angel, but hey.....

It's odd, next to to it seems small, but from a far it's much more impressive and at night far more so as I dance towards the city centre, merrily with a boost of Marble Arch Dobber ale in my blood stream.

This is a long project with many players: Co Op, CIS, MCC, Network Rail, the Chinese.......

Be patient. It isn't that long since this area was a waste land.

Mods!!!!

In terms of cash, the situation changes now that the Co Op have withdrawn from buying Lloyds branches.

Back on track.

Yeah self observation to give an anecdotal feel of the area.

The 135 bus flies past the Co Op building on the new road like a devil possessed and then halts unceremonially at the junction with Rochdale Road. Sadly there isn't a stop next to the Angel, but hey.....

It's odd, next to to it seems small, but from a far it's much more impressive and at night far more so as I dance towards the city centre, merrily with a boost of Marble Arch Dobber ale in my blood stream.

This is a long project with many players: Co Op, CIS, MCC, Network Rail, the Chinese.......

Be patient. It isn't that long since this area was a waste land.

I'd thought the Co-op had been turned down because they would not have enough capital to cover those extra 600 branches.

I'd thought the Co-op had been turned down because they would not have enough capital to cover those extra 600 branches.

Moodys have downgraded the co-op bank stating it is likely to need external funding to survive. :(

IMHO there's a whiff of nobble the competition to that. The Co-op overall has vast assets.

More news today about co-op using reserves from elsewhere in the group to support the bank.

Surely this will mean this development is less likely as they divert funds towards the bank?

More news today about co-op using reserves from elsewhere in the group to support the bank.

Surely this will mean this development is less likely as they divert funds towards the bank?

In 2009 when the NOMA project was conceived (http://www.co-operative.coop/Corporate/PDFs/Annual_Report_2009.pdf)they had about £3.5 Billion in cash reserves and assets totalling nearly £12Billion. Cash-rich in a recession, they went about about engaging in hoovering up mid-sized competitors (Britannia and Somerfield) and cheap old-fashioned land speculation (NOMA & Airport City, etc).

The strategy with NOMA always was that the Co-op would inflate their own land value holdings with their New HQ Building (£100million) and landscaping (achieved using tax payers money) but the estimated investment return (£800million) on that would be through other investors and the selling off of the leaseholds on the vacated Listed Estate and (probably through sale-and-leaseback) on any developed Miller Street plots.

Nothing has really changed other than the recession has lasted longer than they thought and investors just aren’t there yet.

Having made a £50million+ profit on selling the freehold of Angel Square and the HQ (to Deusche Bank and the Chinese) that part could be described as a massive success.

The LLoyds aquisition represented a huge financial gamble based on using their assets to leverage the capital- which never sat with European Banking Regulators demands for holding a higher percentage of cash reserves in the event of market crashes. Most of those assets aren't very liquid (land, property, etc) and thus they couldn't provide the necessary guarantees.

IMHO there's a whiff of nobble the competition to that. The Co-op overall has vast assets.

I do however agree that whilst their Executives aren’t quite a smart as they like to think, their lack of national & international political muscle (realistically claiming a rather contrary ideology) is never going to allow them true parity with the less ethical “big boys.”
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Isn't a huge chunk of that cash destined for the buildings now required to give the bank liquidity?

Isn't a huge chunk of that cash destined for the buildings now required to give the bank liquidity?

Not sure if £50million would make much of a dent on nearly £700million losses last year and even less on the possibility of a £1.8billion capital short fall this. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/10053762/Co-op-Bank-capital-hole-may-reach-1.8bn.html)

Basically the cretins took a business with limited exposure to the sub-prime mortgages that left them cash-rich in a recession and stymied the opposition for a while, then bought the toxic liabilities of Britannia Building Society. They may be being "nobbled" by the opposition but most likely they've hobbled themselves.

Similarly, I'm not sure on the exact terms of "sale & leaseback"- the justification for which is that they avoid tax on the newly inflated land value and the new building with the notion that they will invest it back into the project and the city.

Hopefully, any profit on the Angel Square deal is at least ring fenced for the NOMA project.