This thread will be devoted to all possible questions related with Polish and Ukrainian road infrastructure during Euro 2012, especially:


what is the best route to
speed limits and dealing with police
driving regulations and customs
where to eat
motorway toll
road surface


Special note for Western Europeans:

Don't be afraid to ask any questions concerning a stereotypical view of Central/Eastern Europe, cause otherwise you may never be proven wrong.



I would like to remind everyone that this thread is not meant to show Poland superiority over Ukraine - all posts that deliberlately break this rule will be deleted and authors brigged.

Could someone tell me which would be the best (shortest in hours) road route to reach Poznan from Zagreb, Croatia (Euro 2012). If I got it right there is no direct motorway connection to Poznan from Checz/Slovakia. Thank you!

Go via either Vienna or Bratislava to Brno, then to Gliwice, then to Wrocław, then Poznań. The new D1/A1 motorway at the CZ/PL border should open before Euro 2012. A significant section of the S5 under construction between Wrocław and Poznań is due to be completed in October 2012 and which I guess will probably be opened temporarily on a limited basis for Euro 2012. The trip should take about 10-11 hours, but there could be extra traffic because of Euro 2012.

a) PL: When shall the A4 Wrocław-Katowice become a toll motorway
b) UA: How does it currently look to drive from L'viv to Kyiv ?

The main route into Ukraine for Euro 2012 fans from western Europe is via M06 from L'viv to Kiev.

According to data found on Google Earth and photos;

* M10 Polish border - L'viv: two-lane, condition unknown
* M06 L'viv - Rivne: mainly two-lane
* M06 Rivne - Zhytomyr: mostly four-lane
* M06 Zhytomyr - Kiev: fully four-lane

The northern route via M07 is probably less attractive because the entire route is two-lane, but I've read it was repaved this year and ought to be in good condition.

a) PL: When shall the A4 Wrocław-Katowice become a toll motorway

A4 Wrocław-Gliwice become a toll motrway in summer 2012. This part of A4 had to became a toll motrway in the beginning of the 2012, but there was some delays in construction. Gliwice-Katowice will be free of toll for cars <3,5t ;)

I want to ask a question which could sounds stereotypical. I heard, and also my polish friends said it, that in Poland there's high risk of car theft (especially in the eastern part). Is it true? Better to leave the car into a secure parking or you can also leave it along the road?

The thing I noticed about Poland is the "traffic tempo". You always need to stay alert, while in Sweden, you can drive quite relaxed. Suddenly there are overtaking cars driving in the opposite direction right in front of you - they are expecting you to use the shoulder.

I find a very good idea to open a thread for major sport events when they are going to be played in several cities.

I've made some calculations:

For the first phase (three matches on groups), Czech Republic, Spain and Sweeden will not move anywhere (all matches at Wroclaw, Gdansk and Kyiv.

The team that will have to move longer is Germany. First match at Lviv, Second match at Kharkiv, third one at Lviv. More than 2.000 km go and return Lviv.

About second phase (quarter final) obviously it depends if finishing in first or second position...
but considering if first position... Spain should have to move 727 (from Gdansk to Donestk), Czech Rep will move 343 km (Wroclaw to Warsaw) and Sweeden... will remain at Kyiv for one round more, 0 km


The trips to arrive, obviously longer from Lisbon and Dublin.

I want to ask a question which could sounds stereotypical. I heard, and also my polish friends said it, that in Poland there's high risk of car theft (especially in the eastern part). Is it true? Better to leave the car into a secure parking or you can also leave it along the road?

Car theft in Poland was a big problem in the 90', but it is all in the past now, car theft rates are at more-or-less Western European rates.

Police statistics registered 16098 car thefts in year 2010 for 19 million registered cars. (Detailed statistics in Polish here) (http://www.statystyka.policja.pl/portal/st/840/62034/Kradzieze_samochodow__2010_rok.html) You can google the statistics for your own country and compare the risk etween for yourself.

I want to ask a question which could sounds stereotypical. I heard, and also my polish friends said it, that in Poland there's high risk of car theft (especially in the eastern part). Is it true? Better to leave the car into a secure parking or you can also leave it along the road?

According to Eurostat you should be more worried staying at home: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/images/e/e8/Crimes_recorded_by_the_police_-_Theft_of_a_motor_vehicle%2C_2002-2008.PNG
Car theft in Poland is actually quite low, Poles seem to be the biggest believers of false stereotypes about own country. Of course you have to be careful everywhere as there's no guarantee something nasty won't happen to you.
Here are stats about most often stolen car models in Poland:
http://www.statystyka.policja.pl/portal/st/840/62034/Kradzieze_samochodow__2010_rok.html

Thanks for the answers! My car is not in the list :)

Are there particular tricks with the intent to stop a driver and hold-up? Like false accidents, false checking controls.... in Italy one of the most common is that a moto hits your side mirror to make you take down the window to settle it again. When you do it, another moto passes to steal your watch.... what about there?

Not a question for here, but I think the England team might be needing some advice on travelling between Kraków and Donetsk and Kyiv.

I don't know why they wouldn't change arrangements after the draw came out.

I'm wondering if any of the UK's sports presenters will ever pronounce even Kraków correctly; you can imagine how badly they do with Łódź, 3 pronunciation mistakes in 4 letters.

Anyway, this map showing main routes might be interesting, from Wikipedia, though obviously Google Maps might be favourite

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/EUFA_Euro_2012_pluken.png

the best road from (Romania-) Chisinau (Moldova) to Donetk? some ideas? We have/won 4 tickets to the 2nd semifinal on 28th june. :cheers:
EXCEPT TRANSNISTRIA!!!!!! Thx.

I really hope I'll be able to ask questions about this(in other words go to Poland this summer :D)

Thanks for the answers! My car is not in the list :)

Are there particular tricks with the intent to stop a driver and hold-up? Like false accidents, false checking controls.... in Italy one of the most common is that a moto hits your side mirror to make you take down the window to settle it again. When you do it, another moto passes to steal your watch.... what about there?

Poland is not a leader in car thief invention. if you know the tricks which work in your country, most probably you can spot them in Poland as well.
all in all - as said above Poland is safe. I would say if euro 2012 had been placed in the UK, I would have worried much more - statistics are terrible there

Not a question for here, but I think the England team might be needing some advice on travelling between Kraków and Donetsk and Kyiv.

I don't know why they wouldn't change arrangements after the draw came out.

I'm wondering if any of the UK's sports presenters will ever pronounce even Kraków correctly; you can imagine how badly they do with Łódź, 3 pronunciation mistakes in 4 letters.

Anyway, this map showing main routes might be interesting, from Wikipedia, though obviously Google Maps might be favourite

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/EUFA_Euro_2012_pluken.png


I remember that for one football competition, the Spanish organization studied all cities where playing to have a look to possible hotels, stages, etc... before knowing the group they had and the cities to play.
They had booked a hotel in each possible city to play for using it in case that the group was based there.

And also locations for stages near several stadiums...

And later to decide which hotels they get finnally.


In this case they had very easy. Only four groups and two host countries. It is known where the host countries will play so they knew that only two options were possible (even for Spain and the Netherlands).

They had the good luck to not to move in the first phase.

The thing I noticed about Poland is the "traffic tempo". You always need to stay alert, while in Sweden, you can drive quite relaxed. Suddenly there are overtaking cars driving in the opposite direction right in front of you - they are expecting you to use the shoulder.

Yeah, this is an important issue.


I've noriced a general improvement through a few last years and such manovers are becoming rare and rare.

However, you must always be prepared that someone will not finish overtaking soon enough or deliberately make you move to the hard shoulder. Feel free to flash your light as this is not seen as generally acceptable.

What is more, you must not use the hard shoulder in any case, especially in order to let people behind you pass.

Even a dashed line does not implicate additional lane:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/smar/92-A2-92/Poznan-Swiecko/IMG_4858.jpg

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Always keep an eye on these behind you - never brake very rapidly because of speed limits (but of course do it eventually).

General rule - truck drivers, white van men and company car drivers are the ones to cause most trouble (in this order).

Now a few words about speed limits.

Yo'll se this rather impresive sign at the border:
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/56/424pxspeedlimitpoland.png

The difference between 90 and 100 on normal roads and 100 ans 120 on expressways is as follows:

Higher speed limit applies when the road has at least two lanes in one direction and opposite directions are divided by a barrier or grass.

--------------

Unlike in Western Europe, speed limits are cancelled by every road crossing or end-of-the-limit signs.

--------------

This sign does not implicate build up area and 50 km/h speed limit:

http://prudnicka.pl/gfx/newsart/oberglogau.jpg

This one does:
http://www.jasienica.com.pl/administracja/foto/cv338.jpg

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Lights are mandatory 24/7. Day lights possible

This sign does not implicate build up area and 50 km/h speed limit:

http://prudnicka.pl/gfx/newsart/oberglogau.jpg

This one does:
http://www.jasienica.com.pl/administracja/foto/cv338.jpg

Thank you for this information. In my country it's different: you can see only #1 or a combination of #1 + #2, but both variants say that the speed limit is 50 km/h.

I want to ask a question which could sounds stereotypical. I heard, and also my polish friends said it, that in Poland there's high risk of car theft (especially in the eastern part). Is it true? Better to leave the car into a secure parking or you can also leave it along the road?

Since 2004, the theft rate dropped a lot. I've been several times to Warsaw, Kraków, Katowice, Wrocław and Poznań (big cities) with French license plates & no problem. Before 2004, my radio had been stolen twice, but since 2004, no problem. I'd even say I'm more afraid about my car when parking in France than in Poland now !

Now a few words about speed limits.

Yo'll se this rather impresive sign at the border:
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/56/424pxspeedlimitpoland.png

The difference between 90 and 100 on normal roads and 100 ans 120 on expressways is as follows:

Higher speed limit applies when the road has at least two lanes in one direction and opposite directions are divided by a barrier or grass.

--------------

Unlike in Western Europe, speed limits are cancelled by every road crossing or end-of-the-limit signs.

--------------

This sign does not implicate build up area and 50 km/h speed limit:

http://prudnicka.pl/gfx/newsart/oberglogau.jpg

This one does:
http://www.jasienica.com.pl/administracja/foto/cv338.jpg

-------------

Lights are mandatory 24/7. Day lights possible

@PLH: where did you find that sign ??? :lol: The correct sign is this one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Speedlimitsinpoland.png, which is EVEN MORE impressive :lol:

& as PLH stated it, the green signs you saw are the administrative limit of a village/town/city. Only the "built-up area" sign implicates a 50km/h (5AM-11PM) or a 60km/h (11PM-5AM) speed limit. Most of the times, the built-up areas begin or end at the same time as the administrative limits (like this: http://opencaching.pl/upload/06C67F44-5B47-0BA8-78FA-EA4737C198D0.jpg)

One more advice: DO NOT EVER drink alcohol and drive in Poland. They allow only 0,2g/L of alcohol in your blood (as in Sweden. France or Germany allow 0,5g/L while in the UK it's 0,8g/L)

UKRAINE: in theory, the entering sign looks like this: http://iv.pl/images/52441350960185763837_thumb.jpg, but I never saw it entering to Ukraine by car :ohno:

^^ What happened in 2004?

Poland joined EU?

I don't know if it's because Poland entered EU or because late Kaczyński (as some say) was elected in Warsaw or whatever politics have to do with this. But it's about the time I stopped parking my cars in guarded car-parks (PL-singular: Parking strzeżony), especially in Warsaw.

IMHO, these may be the main reasons:
A) More cameras in the big Polish cities ?
B) More police & the Polish Treasury (fiskus) fighting illegal car-parts selling (especially in markets like near ul.Wolumen in Warsaw) & in the Internet ?
C) An unemployment rate that dropped from over 20% during the SLD (left-wing) governments to around 6% (if I remember well) during the PiS (right-wing) government (part of this dropping due to lots of Poles emigrating to the UK & Ireland, but not only) & around 10% nowadays, which isn't much more than in France for instance ...

Anyway, the result is the same: even having a car on foreign license plates, you're not an attraction anymore. Unless you come with very distant plates like Kazakhstan or Portugal ;) (which I see more & more often there !). Some people even think cars with other EU numbers are cars that have been bought by Poles abroad & will soon have Polish license plates :lol:

EDIT: I've also been in Ukraine in 2005 by car (with French license plates). I crossed in Zosin (PL)/ Ustyluh (Устилуг) (UA). Next I went through Volodymyr Volyns'kyj (Володимир Волинський) to L'viv. Next, I went to Luck (Луцьк).

As stereotypical as it may sound, I had to pay a ridiculous fee (15 PLN) at the border when entering Ukraine ("na chokoladu / на чоколаду" as said the customs woman ...) because she helped me with filling the papers to enter the country.
But next - which is much less Ukraine-stereotypical - the police (Мiлiцiя) stopped me around Zhovkva (Жовква) to check my papers. They had a look at my tires & ... let me go, without asking for anything.

I left my (French-licensed) car out of any guarded park during the day in L'viv & ... no worries, no problems ! :)

I also visited Kyiv last year. When stopped by the Мiлiцiя for speeding, no "na chokoladu" either :lol:

Poland joined EU?

I don't see the connection with car theft and the join into EU. Rather, the list of Grobin about the possible reasons make a sense.

Grobin, yes you're right, nowadays with a lot of people working abroad cars with foreign license plate aren't an attraction anymore. It's like to spot an italian license plate in Romania or Albania, 70% the driver is not italian but romanian or albanian....

I don't see the connection with car theft and the join into EU.
Well many criminals are in the west so our streets are safer now :yes:

EDIT: I've also been in Ukraine in 2005 by car (with French license plates). I crossed in Zosin (PL)/ Ustyluh (Устилуг) (UA). Next I went through Volodymyr Volyns'kyj (Володимир Волинський) to L'viv. Next, I went to Luck (Луцьк).

As stereotypical as it may sound, I had to pay a ridiculous fee (15 PLN) at the border when entering Ukraine ("na chokoladu / на чоколаду" as said the customs woman ...) because she helped me with filling the papers to enter the country.
But next - which is much less Ukraine-stereotypical - the police (Мiлiцiя) stopped me around Zhovkva (Жовква) to check my papers. They had a look at my tires & ... let me go, without asking for anything.


Perhaps it was still necessary to have a visa to enter the country in those days? I can find this statement for 2004: All travelers to Ukraine must have a valid single- or multiple-entry visa before arriving in the country.

That fee was hardly a lot of money.

In any case, there is no visa requirement now for citizens of EU and various other countries.


Edit: from Wikipedia, it seems that negotiations on visa-free travel started in late 2008, and an action plan agreement was announced (http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/91142/) in late 2010.

Many sections of high speed roads was completed in Poland in 2011 . Probably more kilometeres of motorways and expressways will be built in next year. Some map services present obsolete view of road network (for instance Google Maps).
The most truthful view of Polish road network has OSM map (http://openstreetmap.org).
Informations included on this map would be useful during travel to Poland.

Some map services present obsolete view of road network (for instance Google Maps).


Yes, I travelled through Poland to Lithuania in July, checked my route with Google Maps just before leaving, and was surprised to find a new section of the S8 open just to the west of Warsaw.

I spotted a new road sign for Białystok just under a bridge, and it seems that some of my friends missed it or followed the satnav more rigorously.

Could someone tell me which would be the best (shortest in hours) road route to reach Poznan from Zagreb, Croatia (Euro 2012). If I got it right there is no direct motorway connection to Poznan from Checz/Slovakia. Thank you!

In my opinion the shortest in hours would be Marbior, Graz, Brno, Praha, Dresden, Frankfurt (Oder), Poznań. Almost all the way on highway. Try to avoid nonmotorways at all cost during Euro2012. Now they are highly congested, i cannot imagine what it will be on Euro2012.

Perhaps it was still necessary to have a visa to enter the country in those days? I can find this statement for 2004: All travelers to Ukraine must have a valid single- or multiple-entry visa before arriving in the country.

That fee was hardly a lot of money.

In any case, there is no visa requirement now for citizens of EU and various other countries.


Edit: from Wikipedia, it seems that negotiations on visa-free travel started in late 2008, and an action plan agreement was announced (http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/91142/) in late 2010.

:nono: Just after Youshchenko was elected as the President of Ukraine, he put an end to the visa requirement for Westerners. That's exactly why I went to Ukraine in 2005 despite 8 hours waiting to enter Ukraine & 2 hours waiting to enter Poland back. & as Belarus & Russia have still not put an end to visas for Westerners, I have still not been there. Pity, because I'd love to !

In my opinion the shortest in hours would be Marbior, Graz, Brno, Praha, Dresden, Frankfurt (Oder), Poznań. Almost all the way on highway. Try to avoid nonmotorways at all cost during Euro2012. Now they are highly congested, i cannot imagine what it will be on Euro2012.

I partly agree. The road from Wrocław to Poznań is a pain-on-the neck. But on the other hand, if you go via Dresden, you’ll have a trip around 150-200 km longer…

Some map services present obsolete view of road network (for instance Google Maps).

That is very good point, should go on the first page with most usable info ;)
I bet that because some roads will be finished just before Euro many maps in navigators will be even more obsolete...


The most truthful view of Polish road network has OSM map (http://openstreetmap.org).
Informations included on this map would be useful during travel to Poland.

On the other hand I'm not so sure about it, this map service tends to be over optimistic. If I remember correctly, this map showed AOW as finished a couple of weeks before it was actually true. But there is probably no worse wide known map service than Google Maps regarding freshness of their data of this part of the world :ohno:

What is more, you must not use the hard shoulder in any case, especially in order to let people behind you pass.

You sure about that?

You sure about that?

According to what I heard, this was a major change 2-3 years ago in Poland. It isn't allowed anymore. It's a pity as it was a way for Poles to be civic, but on the other hand, people whose car broke down, pedestrians & cyclists might be safer ...

On the other hand I'm not so sure about it, this map service tends to be over optimistic. If I remember correctly, this map showed AOW as finished a couple of weeks before it was actually true. But there is probably no worse wide known map service than Google Maps regarding freshness of their data of this part of the world :ohno:

In fact sometimes occur mistakes on the OSM, because this map is developing by many users, despite it is very precise. Sometimes someone draw too fast new section of road, but few days later another one correct this mistake. I'm always using this map to plan trip :).

In my opinion the shortest in hours would be Marbior, Graz, Brno, Praha, Dresden, Frankfurt (Oder), Poznań. Almost all the way on highway. Try to avoid nonmotorways at all cost during Euro2012. Now they are highly congested, i cannot imagine what it will be on Euro2012.

You might be right, but that's a lot longer than via Brno, Gliwice, and Wrocław, plus getting past Prague can take a long time. My suggestion will be all motorway from Brno to Wrocław. In light traffic, your suggested route would take one to two hours longer than my suggested route. During Euro 2012, your suggestion might be faster.

You sure about that?

This does not not apply to tractors, bikes and other slow vehicles - but only when the line is dashed.

In the last few years vast majority of these were repainted into a continious ones and therefore they look just like motorway hard shoulders, which with no doubt cannot be driven on:

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6302/img2011112300121kopiowa.jpg

What is more, you must not use the hard shoulder in any case, especially in order to let people behind you pass.
This does not not apply to tractors, bikes and other slow vehicles - but only when the line is dashed.

Are you sure? According to regulations, cyclist is obliged to use shoulder when there's no cycling path serving a road. There's nothing about lines :dunno:

Art.16, ust. 5
Kierujący pojazdem zaprzęgowym, rowerem, motorowerem, wózkiem ręcznym oraz osoba prowadząca pojazd napędzany silnikiem są obowiązani poruszać się po poboczu, chyba że nie nadaje się ono do jazdy lub ruch pojazdu utrudniałby ruch pieszych.

You might be right, but that's a lot longer than via Brno, Gliwice, and Wrocław, plus getting past Prague can take a long time. My suggestion will be all motorway from Brno to Wrocław. In light traffic, your suggested route would take one to two hours longer than my suggested route. During Euro 2012, your suggestion might be faster.

If you want to avoid toll fees, go from Brno directly north via Klodzko (in Poland) to Wroclaw. It might take maybe 1 hour longer tough as there is no highway from Brno till the beginning of A8 south of Wroclaw.

According to what I heard, this was a major change 2-3 years ago in Poland. It isn't allowed anymore. It's a pity as it was a way for Poles to be civic, but on the other hand, people whose car broke down, pedestrians & cyclists might be safer ...

This does not not apply to tractors, bikes and other slow vehicles - but only when the line is dashed.

In the last few years vast majority of these were repainted into a continious ones and therefore they look just like motorway hard shoulders, which with no doubt cannot be driven on:

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6302/img2011112300121kopiowa.jpg


Thanks for your replies, guys.

Does anyone know if there is some kind of plan to reduce waiting times at the PL-UA border? Right now it often takes at least an hour, or several hours to cross it, according to granica.gov.pl (http://www.granica.gov.pl/index_czasy.php?p=u&c=t&v=en)

I'm afraid the only way is to ease border rules. It's goint to be a good few weeks for smugglers.

Well, If I read the stories about smuggling the main concern of the Polish customs are the cross-border trains.

We have problems on our eastern border with of all types of smuggling: foot, car, truck and trains as well. Trains are the most media-prone.

Great thread! Two questions:

1. What is the road like from Kharkov to Donetsk?

2. What are the rental car requirements for foreigners in Ukraine and what are the typical rental rates?

Thanks.

I don't see the connection with car theft and the join into EU.

Well, there is connection acutally. Before Poland joined EU we had high import taxes for used cars. In the result cars in Poland were quite expensive, especially older ones, and market supply was limited. So stealig cars and parts was profitable. After we joined EU the border became fully opened, prices have dropped significantly, and market of cars and auto parts became reasonably wide. Of course decrease of unemployment rate and overall increase of wealth were important in that process too. So was sealing of our eastern border and increase of wealth in Russia (that formerly used to be huge market for stolen cars).

70k cars have been stolen in Poland in 2001. 16k in 2010 in comparison to 160k(!) in Italy.

Europol data for 2008:

Country Vehicles stolen
1.Italy 167689
2.United Kingdom 142321
3.France 127850
4.Spain 77645
5.Czech Republic 43757
6.Greece 38837
7.Sweden 30776
8.Denmark 27234
9.Poland 22773
10.Belgium 16676

Considering population and number of cars Poland is preety safe. On the other hand number of stolen cars in Poland and Germany is more less the same (16k a year), while Germany is more than twice as populous as Poland.

Thanks for the answers! My car is not in the list :)

Are there particular tricks with the intent to stop a driver and hold-up? Like false accidents, false checking controls.... in Italy one of the most common is that a moto hits your side mirror to make you take down the window to settle it again. When you do it, another moto passes to steal your watch.... what about there?


Recently media reported series of flatten tyre trick. Thieves let air out of (usually) rear tyre, follow the car, and when driver steps out of vehicle to see what's going on they open the oposite side doors and steal handbag, waist bag, wallet, phone, whatever left in car. Also beware of Gypsies pretending (usually) turkish second hand car traders. They stand by car with german temporary plates stopping over other vehicles and asking for help. The usual story is they're on their way home and run out of fuel, and ask (in poor german) for some money offering their "golden" ring or "expensive" watch in return. Some naive people give them money. I've been in that situation too, the extra part of the story was a little kid in the backseat of an old Mercedes W210. The guy ofered me his signet ring. After he realised I won't give him any money he smacked doors of my car and left. Well, to be honest: beware of Gypsies in any situation ;)

Another very important thing is zebra crossings.

Pedestrians have by law no right of way unless they are standing on the street itself.

However if the traffic is not big and you will not cause any dangerous situation it is seen as good manners to let people go.

beware of Gypsies in any situation ;)

:okay: the only good thing of them is that you can recognize them quite easily and beware to fall into their tricks.... personally, I would never stop in a foreign country to help somebody on the street.... maybe just if she's a stunning woman but sometimes behind a stunning woman there are tricks... like in Budapest about the beautiful girls in Vaci Utca that "invite" naive foreign tourists into locals and then they have to pay an expansive bill some years ago (I don't know if they are still there)....

If you want to avoid toll fees, go from Brno directly north via Klodzko (in Poland) to Wroclaw. It might take maybe 1 hour longer tough as there is no highway from Brno till the beginning of A8 south of Wroclaw.

Looking at Google Maps, where once you've got one route you can drag it about a bit, I'd be tempted by cutting across north from Olomouc to the A4 SE of Wrocław.

According to Google, that's only a few minutes slower than the quickest option mentioned above, via Ostrava, and nearly 80 km shorter

So we have suggestions ranging from 850 to 1100 km, and 10 h 45 to 12 hours

Looking at Google Maps, where once you've got one route you can drag it about a bit, I'd be tempted by cutting across north from Olomouc to the A4 SE of Wrocław.

According to Google, that's only a few minutes slower than the quickest option mentioned above, via Ostrava, and nearly 80 km shorter

That's because the D1/A1 motorway at the CZ/PL border hasn't opened yet. It will be about 30-60 minutes faster then than it is now.

Anyone shares a highway/rail map of Poland&Ukraine?

^^It`s the newest map:

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5441/autostradyidrogiekspres.png



Green - motorways/expressways in use
Red - under construction
yellow - tender

Luki_SL, that link doesn't seem to work properly. Did you mean this (http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5441/autostradyidrogiekspres.png) map?

Yes, the famous omnipresent map. :D

Luki_SL, that link doesn't seem to work properly. Did you mean this (http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5441/autostradyidrogiekspres.png) map?

I corrected bad link:) thx

That other map is much better in my opinion. Why are there two versions?

^^You mean this map : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=86262458&postcount=4105 made by esce??:)

As much as I love maps about development of our highway network I don't think they I proper in this thread. It can fool careless readers. I think that only maps with finished or to be finished on may 2012 roads should be posted here.

Hi there! I'm visiting Poland every year and I sure won't skip it next year! ;)

I'm planing to visit my friends in Sosnowiec before I continue to Poznań so I was wondering will the A1 from CZ border to Katowice be finished by Euro?
I would rather use my usual route via Bielsko-Biała if A1 is not finished because my navigation directed my to that route last time I was traveling to Poland in May and it was a terrible experience...

As I understand A4 is in traffic all the way from Katowice to Wroclaw? And what is the condition of S5 from Wroclaw to Poznań? Is it like S1 from CZ border to Bielsko-Biała?

And I have one more question :) What will be the toll system situation during the Euro? I'm asking this because they were talking about introducing vignettes last time I was in Poland???
If this is not truth how much is the toll for A1 (section CZ border-Katowice), and A4 (section Katowice-Wroclaw)?

Thank you :)

:cheers:

1. A1 from czech border to Katowice should be ready in March 2012.
2. A4 is in traffic all the way from german border to Kraków.
3. At the moment there is no S-class road between Wrocław and Poznań while S1 between CZ border exist.

I was wondering will the A1 from CZ border to Katowice be finished by Euro?
Yes, the official date is March 2012, which might be possible if the mild winter weather continues. May 2012 should be easy given the current state.

As I understand A4 is in traffic all the way from Katowice to Wroclaw? And what is the condition of S5 from Wroclaw to Poznań? Is it like S1 from CZ border to Bielsko-Biała?
I would expect bad traffic conditions on all roads during Euro 2012. There really is no S5 between Wroclaw and Poznań yet, though there is one section that they may open on a temporary basis for Euro 2012.

What will be the toll system situation during the Euro? I'm asking this because they were talking about introducing vignettes last time I was in Poland?
I'm not aware of any special toll provisions for Euro 2012. No Polish vignettes -- just bloody toll booths. :ohno:

Will Poland be closing down it's borders during the event? I know Germany and Portugal did something similar when they hosted the World Cup/Euro (not sure about Austria)

And the most important question of them all: who's going to win it? :D

Poland :D

And the most important question of them all: who's going to win it? :D

We, the enthusiasts of Polish motorways, are the winners. Think of all the road building which is going on now just because of Euro 2012. :)

^^

True ! :) & especially Polish people that will use these motorways &/or see those motorways get some traffic out of congested small roads.

P.S.: It'd be nice if some of our Ukrainian roadgeeks wrote something here ! We don't hear you a lot guys ! Як справи ? Як життя ? Is anybody theeeeeere ?:dunno:

It'd be nice if some of our Ukrainian roadgeeks wrote something here ! We don't hear you a lot guys !

I agree. It would be nice. I think there are two possible reasons. One is that it's more fun to be a Polish road geek than a Ukrainian road geek because there is a lot more cool road construction going on in Poland. The other is that English is more pervasive in Poland than Ukraine (though I have some Ukrainian friends who speak English very well).

Will be driving from Moscow to Warzaw to support Russian Team. Planning on making a detour to Vilnius, LT.

Well, If I read the stories about smuggling the main concern of the Polish customs are the cross-border trains.

As long as fuel, cigarettes and alcohol will be cheaper in Ukraine, do not shorten the waiting time at the border, that is, in my opinion never.

Anyone shares a highway/rail map of Poland&Ukraine?

Seems, there is some nice PL highway maps in the topic. So have some other maps:

Road UA - http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gvethXaaw24/SeIzLmkskOI/AAAAAAAAAqY/JO1MKCzWNL0/s1600-h/Map_Ukraine_Roads_Euro-2012_Karta.gif
(But OSM is more useful, IMHO - http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.58&lon=31.41&zoom=7&layers=M)

Rail UA - http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/ukraine/ukraine.gif

Rail PL - http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/poland/poland.gif

Thank you for the links.

Hi. I would like to attend Lwiw. It is difficult to find some english or german informations concerning the current state of the M06 between the Hungarian Border and Lwiw. Has anyone driven in the last few months and could give some new informations?! Thank you!

^^

First of all: are you driving from Munich (as your nickname suggests) ? Or from elsewhere ?

^^

First of all: are you driving from Munich (as your nickname suggests) ? Or from elsewhere ?

Doubtful since he's asking how the roads are between Hungary and Lviv. My guess is he's flying to Hungary and will drive from there.....

Hi,

yes, I'm from munich and I will go by car. Flights are too exepensive and I enjoy to use the car :-). I heard that the M06 should be one of the best roads in the Ukraine but I don't know how to define "best". My intention is to use either the border crossing Zahoni or Berehove!

^^Are you sure to go M06?? I think the best way is to go M11 from Korczowa to Lviv. That road has new pavement all way long:) I don`t remember if M06 from Hungary border to Lviv is renovated.

I think it's obvious that ChrisMuenchen tooks way through Austria and Hungary from Munich to reach Lviv. Section from Cracow to border is terrible in terms huge number of lorries. I would choose Hungary.

I heard about the renovation of the M11, but, as Rombi noticed, from Munich in my opinion, it is better to travel via Austria and Hungary. And, as i said, its very difficult to get some actual information about the M06

Hi. I would like to attend Lwiw. It is difficult to find some english or german informations concerning the current state of the M06 between the Hungarian Border and Lwiw. Has anyone driven in the last few months and could give some new informations?! Thank you!

I can't be sure about current state on all length, but M06 (conventionally known as Kyiv-Chop motorway) is a key highway project for EURO 2012 and is scheduled to be completed be the championship. Thus I would recommend taking it as the best quality option. Moreover, I was taking part of M06 between Lviv and Chop when going skiing 3 years ago, and it was in perfect shape already back then. If I am not mistaken, main construction work now is being done on Lviv-Kyiv part, while Chop-Lviv segment has been ready for couple of years.

Lviv-Chop has been made about five years ago and already have some traces of repairs. It's mostly 1+1 with only some stretches 1+2 in Carpathian Mountains and 2+2 in Lviv Oblast. Here are some vids

Carpathian Mountains
zDacaycfScc

Lviv Oblast' (till 5:14) from Solonka to Rudniki (http://g.co/maps/ebaq8)
u6iTZVQfWl0

I think it's obvious that ChrisMuenchen tooks way through Austria and Hungary from Munich to reach Lviv. Section from Cracow to border is terrible in terms huge number of lorries. I would choose Hungary.

It depends. As far as Poland is concerned, remember A4 from Kraków to the border shall be ready on most sections, except 2 (Bochnia-Tarnów, and Rzeszów-Jarosław). Moreover, the A1 section from the Czech D1 to Gliwice shall be ready at the time too. & East of Miskolc (H) (through Nyíregyháza), there's no motorway...

Anyway, 3 solutions, with advantages & inconveniences:
A) Drive as most suggest - through Salzburg, Linz, Vienna (A), Győr, Budapest, Nyíregyháza (H) & Chop (UA). It's the most straight way, but not the shortest (1268 km & 13h15 according to Google Maps (maps.google.com)), although the difference with the other possibilities isn't big at all. Moreover, remember about:
- both the Austrian & Hungarian vignettes.
- The fact that refuelling & eating is really expensive in Austria, a bit less in Hungary. Half of your way will be done through Austria ...
- I heard (but here other people will put at stake my statement) that there are a lot of speed traps on Austrian motorways & fines are quite expensive.

B) Drive through Regensburg (D), Plzeň, Prague, Brno, Olomouc, Ostrava (CZ), Gliwice, Katowice, Kraków, Tarnów, Rzeszów (PL), (1243 km & 13h15 according to Google Maps (maps.google.com)) which may be the cheapest & will be the shortest in distance. Remember this:
- you must buy the Czech vignette & pay for both tolls on Polish A4 between Katowice and Kraków (which is not expensive though - 2x8PLN = 16PLN in total, which is less than 4 EUR)
- You'll have cheaper fuel and cheaper food in the Czech Republic & especially in Poland
- You may have a lot of speed traps in the Czech Republic. In Poland, the speed limit on motorways is 140 km/h with an official tolerance of 10 km/h. But you can do more... & fines are not that expensive
- According to this website (http://www.motorways-exitlists.com/europe/ua/ukraine.htm), there's an avtomahistral' between Krakovec' (PL/UA border) and L'viv. If other forumers confirm this, take this in account (I hope some of our Ukrainian SSC users will write something ...)

C) Drive through Ingoldstadt, Nürnberg, Chemnitz, Dresden, Görlitz (D), Legnica, Wrocław, Gliwice, Katowice, Kraków, Tarnów, Rzeszów (PL) (1298 km, 14h00 according to Google Maps (maps.google.com)). Take in account this:
- A lot of km on German motorways, which means better driving for you for a longer time but also more expensive in fuel & food.
- You'll drive through the whole Polish A4, which means: cheaper refuelling & cheaper eating for a long time. The rest is just like on the B) solution.

Anyway, I hope the waiting time at any of the borders with Ukraine will be much shorter than now ...

Aha: one map that can help you a lot: the Polish map of motorway & expressway construction, which is always up-to-date ;):

http://ssc-mapa.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/nowa-mapa.png[/

^^
▃ existing
▃ under construction
▃ project & bulid
▃ tender
▃ tender for project & bulid
▃ enviromental decision (DSU)

First of all, thank you for you kind and helpful answers, videos etc. Despite all, it seems to me that the M06 is in a very good condition. Toll etc. doesn't play a remarkable role for me. Fuel in Austria for example is cheaper than in germany, but i have to admit that i don't know the prices in hungary and ukraine.

What about the density of the filling stations at the M06. I suppose there are enough...
Has anyone an idea about the truck density on the M06 at weekends?

^^ E95 petrol in Hungary is now around 400 HUF, which is around 1,27 EUR. Diesel is about 25 HUF more expensive. The filling stations on motorways are the most expensive ones, though.

AFAIK petrol in Ukraine is much cheaper, below 1 EUR.

thank you. AFAIK you have to pay cash at the ukrainian petrolstations??? As I saw on the maß above, the polish motorway from Rzesow to the border will bei ready till EURO 2012...

Because I returun immediately after the match, I will choose Lwiw - Rzesow than the via Dukla pass in direction to Kosice and then furter Miskolc-Budapest...

I heart that it should be dangerous to travel during the night by car.....but I don't know why....safety or road conditions maybe both...or is it just a fairytale??

If we're taking into account Poland - it's just a fairytale.

Sorry, I heard that about travelling on ukrainian roads during the night...

Sorry, I heard that about travelling on ukrainian roads during the night...

As for Poland - you can drive during the night without any issues at all. No worry. As for Ukraine - I have no idea. :-)

You can go to Kiev through Hungary and go back via Poland - just to see something new and don't be bored to much :cheers:

Btw. I'm driving Munich-Krakow and Krakow-Munich couple times during the year each time taking another road :) Just for fun and curiosity. :banana:

As for Poland - you can drive during the night without any issues at all. No worry. As for Ukraine - I have no idea. :-)

You can go to Kiev through Hungary and go back via Poland - just to see something new and don't be bored to much :cheers:

Btw. I'm driving Munich-Krakow and Krakow-Munich couple times during the year each time taking another road :) Just for fun and curiosity. :banana:

^^

If you're not in a hurry, that's the best thing to do :) & it's the best way to know which road is in better shape, less stressful, etc.

Driving in Ukraine during the night (this statement excludes Kyiv) is VERY tiring & stressful. You can't see any potholes in advance & out of the main roads there, you can have such BIG surprises. I highly recommend you to drive during the day in Ukraine.

Can anybody confirm, that you can only pay cash at ukrainian filling stations?

^^

False ! When I was in Ukraine by car in 2005, I could already pay by credit card. In 2010, I went by plane, but - as far as I remember, my father (whom I visited) paid sometimes by card ... Who told you that ? :D

I think that I read it in a traveller guide or something comparable, can't remember the exact source.....

^^

Oyoyoy ! Never trust 100% traveller guides ! There are so many inaccurate & stupid things written about each country ! I once had the surprise - talking to 2 Québec tourists - that some tourist guide told them not to bring their shaving machine to France because there's no electricity here ! & it was back in 2004 ! They made me read the statement on their book, & it was in French !

A similar case with an American tourist in Poland (back in 2002, when Poland wasn't even in the EU & the unemployment rate was around 20%), the guide of which stated that the MINIMUM salary in Poland was of 2,000 USD !!!!

^^

Oyoyoy ! Never trust 100% traveller guides ! There are so many inaccurate & stupid things written about each country ! I once had the surprise - talking to 2 Québec tourists - that some tourist guide told them not to bring their shaving machine to France because there's no electricity here ! & it was back in 2004 ! They made me read the statement on their book, & it was in French !

Maybe they mean that in France they have different voltage (220V vs 110V) and you can't use North American electrical equipments without adapter.

A similar case with an American tourist in Poland (back in 2002, when Poland wasn't even in the EU & the unemployment rate was around 20%), the guide of which stated that the MINIMUM salary in Poland was of 2,000 USD !!!!
Maybe they put a 0 more.

Maybe they put a 0 more.

The minimum Salary was around 250$ in 2000. Now it's 500$ so still very low.

The minimum Salary was around 250$ in 2000. Now it's 500$ so still very low.

The only effect of a minimum salary is to make it illegal for anyone whose skills are worth less than the minimum to work. Governments enact minimum salary laws in order to keep the poorest people from supporting themselves.

^^

Hard to say which system is the worst ...

Hi everyone,

first of all thank you for your kind regards. Has somebody of you experience with entering the ukraine with a rental car??...are some special documents necessary except that one that the rental company allows you to enter the ukraine........

I know no rental car companies that would let you go with a EU car into Russia, Belarus or Ukraine so far ...

You'd better take your personal car. As far as your own name & surname is on the documents, no problems ! :)

oh yes there is. I reserved a car in the international reservation center of Avis in Germany. There must be a so-called "Travel-East-Tarif", so far so good, but you can't find it in their homepage :-). I asked directly via the customers hotline. But I don't know if the local agency in munich has enough experience with the documents that would be necessary. But you are right as far as the normal contract conditions are concerned. "normally" Belarus, russia, etc is forbidden.

Will be driving from Moscow to Warzaw to support Russian Team. Planning on making a detour to Vilnius, LT.

From Polish border drive to Augustów. From there you have 2 options:
- DK8
- DK61

IMHO, better road is DK8, altough the traffic is bigger than on DK61 and it is a bit longer.

Why do you want him to go through Augustów ? From Moscow, he's got a straight road through Minsk, Terespol & Siedlce. Augustów is O.K. if you come from the Baltic countries, Finland or Saint-Petersburg ...

Read his comment, he wants to make a detour to Lithuania,so he is going to be coming from the Baltics :)

Ahhh ... Sorry, you're so right ! :lol:

Could someone tell me which would be the best (shortest in hours) road route to reach Poznan from Zagreb, Croatia (Euro 2012). If I got it right there is no direct motorway connection to Poznan from Checz/Slovakia. Thank you!


Drive from Zagreb via Graz to Vienna, than Bratislava, Brno, Ostrava, new motorway from Ostrava to Gliwice in Poland. In Poland drive: Gliwice, Katowice, Czestochowa, Łódź and finally Poznań. You will drive almost all time on motorways or four lane roads.

Drive from Zagreb via Graz to Vienna, than Bratislava, Brno, Ostrava, new motorway from Ostrava to Gliwice in Poland. In Poland drive: Gliwice, Katowice, Czestochowa, Łódź and finally Poznań. You will drive almost all time on motorways or four lane roads.

The fastest way from Vienna to Brno is direct, not via Bratislava. Also, unless something has changed that I don't know about, it will be slow getting past Łódź. I would go from Gliwice to Poznań via Wroclaw. Otherwise, it looks like a good route.

The fastest way from Vienna to Brno is direct, not via Bratislava.Yup, there's no reason why you should drive through Bratislava, unless you really want to purchase an extra motorway sticker. :)

Yup, there's no reason why you should drive through Bratislava, unless you really want to purchase an extra motorway sticker. :)

I always prefer to drive better road, even if it means longer distance. So, if I was you, I would drive via road closer Bratislava. That’s true about Łódź. However, there is no problem, if you avoid rush hours.

Gliwice, Katowice, Czestochowa, Łódź and finally Poznań. You will drive almost all time on motorways or four lane roads.

Driving from Gliwice to Katowice and than to north is dangerously stupid idea - daily traffic on S86 near Katowice (it's the only road to north directly from this city) is over 100 000 vehicles per day, on A4 there - a little bit lower. I think Klukas should go from Gliwice still on A1, through Zabrze, Bytom and Piekary Śląskie, and change it for S1 on "Lotnisko" interchange. By few kilometers there's an interchange with DK1 to Częstochowa and Łódź. S1 from "Lotnisko" to this interchange is single carriageway, but expressway. This variant is shorter and faster.

A1 from Zabrze to "Lotnisko" is already U/C, but it will be opened in April.

I always prefer to drive better road, even if it means longer distance. So, if I was you, I would drive via road closer Bratislava. That’s true about Łódź. However, there is no problem, if you avoid rush hours.

IMHO there's no important reason to drive via Bratislava - direct variant from Vienna to Brno (via A5 and 7 in Austria and (R)52 in Czech Republic) is shorter, faster and not worse, because whole stretch has pretty good surface, there's quite low traffic and not many towns.

Speedlimits in Poland and Ukraine:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Ograniczenia_pr%C4%99dko%C5%9Bci_w_Polsce_od_2011.svg

http://iv.pl/images/17077759257988314821_thumb.jpg (http://iv.pl/viewer.php?file=17077759257988314821.gif)

Fuck yeah, our readable sign!

This is why I "love" my country. Nothing can be simple because...no. :bash:
Tell me why Mr. Nowak!

Don't exaggerate :P Country is fine, but in some cases a little bit more complicated than it should be.

140 speed limit :drool::righton:

140 speed limit :drool::righton:
If I may add something. On A1 from Świerklany to Sośnica the traffic is so small that police don't react if you drive even more ;)

^^In fact if you drive 10km/h over the limit, you shuldn`t be punished. Wherever you will drive, on the motorway, or on the other national road.

^^ So, speed limit in polish autobahns is even 150 km/h :nocrook:

^^ On A1 Świerklany-Sośnica practically there is no speed limit ;) Although few people go faster than 130-140.

Campsites in Poznan:
http://www.poznan.pl/mim/turystyka/en/campsites,poi,17,6049/

also:
http://campingpoland.eu (they are renting places to sleep for 4 people in every camping trailer)
http://www.carlsbergfancamp.pl/en (places in a tents)
http://www.campervanvillage.com/ (only places to park your own campervan)


hope it will help someone ;)

maybe this one http://www.2012life.eu/en/

What is (will be in June) the better route from Brno to Katowice?

Olomouc, Cieszyn, S1, Bielsko-Biała or Olomouc, Ostrava, A1 + A4?

What is the status of A1 from CZ border to A4?

How much is the toll for A1+A4 from CZ border to Katowice and for A4 from Katowice to Wrocław?

:cheers:

What is (will be in June) the better route from Brno to Katowice?

Olomouc, Ostrava, A1 + A4?
Yes, exactly.

What is the status of A1 from CZ border to A4?
It should open in May.

How much is the toll for A1+A4 from CZ border to Katowice and for A4 from Katowice to Wrocław?
No toll for these sections Bzyq_74's post below regarding A4].

No toll for these sections.
but from 1st June is toll A4 section: Gliwice - Wrocław (about 30 PLN).

Thank you :cheers:

And better route from Brno to Katowice is D1 -> A1 -> A4. :)

And better route from Brno to Katowice is D1 -> A1 -> A4.

No, the D1 has not been completed yet. The best route is to take the 46 and the 35 past Olomouc.

I meant that it will be better if KHS choose Polish A1 and A4, than S1 and DK1 - lack of some stretches of Czech D1 isn't very important, because you can drive by quite comfortable R35 and R46.

From today Street View is availible in big Polish cities :)

^^Street view is available on the main roads in Poland :) A1, A2, A4, and other :)

I meant that it will be better if KHS choose Polish A1 and A4, than S1 and DK1 - lack of some stretches of Czech D1 isn't very important, because you can drive by quite comfortable R35 and R46.

I agree.

From today Street View is availible in big Polish cities :)

Finally! News appear in this forum very fast, on RMF.FM radio I heard about it today.

Corruption at the border. TVN24news reveals: "Who will pay cross the border faster "

More (only polish)
http://rzeszow.gazeta.pl/rzeszow/1,34962,11429568,Korupcja_na_granicy__TVN24_ujawnia___Kto_da__pojedzie_.html

Edit:
http://www.tvn24.pl/12690,1739489,0,1,placisz-_-jedziesz-na-bandyte--pod-prad--po-chodniku,wiadomosc.html

Condition of national roads in Poland. Breakdown by region.

Green - good surface.
Yellow - average surface.
Red - bad surface.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3750/krajowa2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/krajowa2.jpg/)

very interesting

The best surface is in the Świętokrzyskie Voivodeship :)

According to news in Polish media, A1 from Czech border to Świerklany won't be ready for EURO2012. Best options to cope without this stretch:

1. From Olomouc go by 35, in Lipnik nad Becvou it become D1, at D1/48 interchange turn D1, keep it till the end, at last interchange direct Chałupki (PL), after CZ/PL border keep 78 to Wodzisław Śląski, at first roundabout you'll see in this town turn 932 Świerklany and look for signs direct to A1.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3358/possibility1st.jpg

2. From Olomouc go by 35, in Lipnik nad Becvou it become D1, at D1/48 interchange turn 48, keep it to CZ/PL border, than keep S1 to S1/81 interchange in Harbutowice, turn 81 and keep it to Żory, crossing with northern bypass of town - 935, turn 935 and wait for interchange with A1.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/83/possibility2nd.jpg

^^There is road works on national road no 1 in Tychy and Pszczyna. On I/48 near Frydek Mistek, there is diversion because of construction works at new section of R48 expressway. I think better to go with option no 1 :)

A bloody shame nearly no project is finished in time for Euro 2012. Most projects only need half a year additional construction time. I know these projects are not solely built for Euro 2012, but if you're constructing it anyway, you may as well finish it in time for a major event like that :(

^^There is road works on national road no 1 in Tychy and Pszczyna. On I/48 near Frydek Mistek, there is diversion because of construction works at new section of R48 expressway. I think better to go with option no 1 :)



DK1 in Tychy and Pszczyna is a worst choice, mostly 1x1(1 line to Katowice and 1 line to Bielsko are closed) and max 50km/h because they build new non-collision interchanges.




@MajKeR_, @ChrisZwolle : April Fool's Day (Prima Aprilis in Polish:P)

A bloody shame nearly no project is finished in time for Euro 2012.

How many kilometers of motorway and expressway opened in Poland and in Ukraine last year?

A bloody shame nearly no project is finished in time for Euro 2012. Most projects only need half a year additional construction time. I know these projects are not solely built for Euro 2012, but if you're constructing it anyway, you may as well finish it in time for a major event like that :(

Despite the fact we won't complete most of the roads on the championship, our road infrastructure is in progress and we're constructing the roads for us at all, not only for the event. Besides this probably most of the football fun/tourists would come to Poland by plane so they couldn't feel the lack of parts of highway/motorway.

How many kilometers of motorway and expressway opened in Poland and in Ukraine last year?

Here You have list of highways & motorways, opened in 2011 in Poland.
Completed investments in 2011

19.01.2011 - S8 Warszawa: Konotopa–Prymasa Tysiąclecia, 2x3, 10,4 km
21.04.2011 - A1 Rowień - Świerklany, 2x2/3, 6,6 km
27.04.2011 - S7 Skarżysko-Kamienna - Występa, 2x2, 16,7 km
05.05.2011 - A8 obwodnica Wrocławia: Wrocław Południe - Wrocław Lotnisko, 2x3 7,5 km
13.07.2011 - S3 węzeł Parłówko część 2x2 4,2 km
13.07.2011 - S3 węzeł Parłówko część 1x2 1,9 km
15.07.2011 - A8 obwodnica Wrocławia: Wrocław Północ - Wrocław Psie Pole, 2x2 4,5 km
28.07.2011 - S7 Elbląg - Pasłęk, 2x2, 14,6 km
19.08.2001 - S1 Bielsko-Biała, w. Komorowice - w. Rosta, 2x2, 2,8 km
31.08.2011 - S8 przy obwodnicy Wrocławia, 2x2, 0,5 km
31.08.2011 - A8 most na obwodnicy Wrocławia, 2x3, 1,8 km
31.08.2011 - A8 obwodnica Wrocławia część 2, 2x2, 8,6 km
30.09.2011 - A1 węzeł Maciejów - węzeł Sośnica, 2x3, 8,2 km
14.10.2011 - A1 Grudziądz - Toruń, 2x2, 62,4 km
28.10.2011 - S69 Bielsko-Biała, w. Rosta - w. Mikuszowice, 2x2, 9,1 km
28.11.2011 - S11 ZOP, pomiędzy węzłem Swadzim a węzłem Dąbrówka, 2x2, 8,1 km
30.11.2011 - A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl, 2x2, 105,9 km
16.12.2011 - S3 obwodnica Miękowa, 2x2, 4,1 km
17.12.2011 - S74 Kielce, odcinek miejski, 2x2, 2,7 km
17.12.2011 - S74 Kielce - Cedzyna, 2x2, 4,2 km
21.12.2011 - S19 obwodnica Kocka i Woli Skromowskiej, 1x2, 7,7 km
22.12.2011 - A1 Zabrze Północ (Wieszowa) - Gliwice Maciejów, 2x3, 8,1 km
22.12.2011 - S6 obwodnica Nowogardu, 2x2, 9,4 km

In total, completed in 2011: 310,0 km (highways: 213,6 km, motorways 2x2/2x3: 86,8 km, motorways 1x2: 9,6 km)

A bloody shame nearly no project is finished in time for Euro 2012.
Looking at the list above of motorways and highways opened last year, I cannot agree that "nearly no project is finished in time for Euro 2012." Thanks kmieciu for posting the list.

Well, major projects like A1, A2 and A4 were planned to be completed before Euro 2012. That's more kilometers than what opened in all of 2011.

^^These plans were unreal at the start. Before april 2007 these plans were for the 2007-2015 year.

Maybe the 5-year planning time for Euro 2012 is not enough, in cases of countries who need to upgrade a substantial amount of their road/airport/rail/tourist/football infrastructure.

Countries who need more than 5 years to upgrade a substantial amount of their infrastructure should not be awarded with the organization of such an event, it's as simple as that.

Guys, who cares about over a dozen kilometers stretch of motorway somewhere near the border? Do you think that this event will be pure disaster, because motorways don't cut the whole territory of Poland? Main things will be completed and it's the most important; if you're affraid that this country is completely wild, don't travel here.

Can we be happy that so much new road infrastructure has been built and continues to be built?

Maybe the 5-year planning time for Euro 2012 is not enough, in cases of countries who need to upgrade a substantial amount of their road/airport/rail/tourist/football infrastructure.

I understand the planning of road development projects in PL goes far beyond 5-year term. The onus would be on the funding available in future.

Countries who need more than 5 years to upgrade a substantial amount of their infrastructure should not be awarded with the organization of such an event, it's as simple as that.

That's a fairly narrow-minded view. In Poland the Euro 2012 acted as a trigger event for infrastructure development, which had been suffering from underinvestment for decades. However, the project management side from GDDKiA and legal regulations (in part. focussing on the lowest bid price in public tenders, without taking into account e.g. reputation of the bidder) could've been better, for sure.

And from organisational side of the fence, I believe the Euro cup will be organised in PL on a good level (certainly not worse than in such countries like eg. Italy).

That's a fairly narrow-minded view. In Poland the Euro 2012 acted as a trigger event for infrastructure development, which had been suffering from underinvestment for decades. However, the project management side from GDDKiA and legal regulations (in part. focussing on the lowest bid price in public tenders, without taking into account e.g. reputation of the bidder) could've been better, for sure.

And from organisational side of the fence, I believe the Euro cup will be organised in PL on a good level (certainly not worse than in such countries like eg. Italy).

Let's organize next meeting in Nigeria and let's see if you still think that way.

^^ I'm not going to speak for Ukraine, but if you wanted to insult Poland and Polish people by saying that, you'd need to try harder next time. Anyway, I won't get down to such level of argumentation.

^^ I'm not going to speak for Ukraine, but if you wanted to insult Poland and Polish people by saying that, you'd need to try harder next time. Anyway, I won't get down to such level of argumentation.

You understood wrong, I never mentioned Poland. You made this association, probably you think that Poland and Nigeria are comparable, not me.

I just said that this competition should be organized by countries that require less than 5 years to build infrastructures. I never said that Poland and Ukraine aren't such countries. If they can build whatever is necessary, then it's good!

Think twice and read better when you accuse someone of insulting.

^^ Whatever...

This discussion is held in a thread related to Poland & Ukraine, and not a theoretical 3rd party country, so it seems to me that any conclusions or assumptions of the users would refer to PL & UA as well.

Let's organize next meeting in Nigeria and let's see if you still think that way.

Euro cup in Nigeria? :nuts:

^^ Whatever...

This discussion is held in a thread related to Poland & Ukraine, and not a theoretical 3rd party country, so it seems to me that any conclusions or assumptions of the users would refer to PL & UA as well.

Apparently, you're wrong.
I don't care about football, and I don't know any Pole, so I have no reason to insult them.

Euro cup in Nigeria? :nuts:

Yeah, I realized that afterwards :)

I just said that this competition should be organized by countries that require less than 5 years to build infrastructures.
Ukraine needs minimum 20 years to build infrastructures...<lol>

You should remember that countries hosting Olympic Games or World Championships in football are known 6-7 years earlier, not 5.

Limiting the organisation of such events as football Euro only to the countries that "have" the infrastructures seems to me bit stupid. The infrastructure is only about the magnitude of such events, it doesnt really hinder or is crucial for the organisation of the event istelf. I would be the same happy with Euro tournament that would happen on stadions for 5000 people as with one happening on stadions for 50 000. I dont think that events like Euro or olympic games should be so resources demanding that it would drain the investment of a country. Most important if there is investment made that should be made in a wise way and should be ready to be usefull many years after the event is long forgotten. Its really stupid to invest heavilly in event connected things and find them uselles afterwards, or of bad quality because of rushing. And I think that the polish plan for infrustructure is something that will serve the country long after the euro, and that the euro was rather good kick for it.

I think that the euro should have been in Poland even if they it did not promise to build all these new highways. It is not something that you have to have in order to organize a football match. Or a huge stadions etc. It is only something that allows to make things bigger and smoother.

The problem here lays with promising more than you can deliver. Or not being able to deliver on time what you have promised. Therefore I find it better not to promise too much. Because that causes further problems. Anyways I wouldnt have heavy head over if someone complains he had to drive on a local road because something was not finished. Because it will be finished in the end and it will serve the country for many years. I would be more concerned about those many years then about the one event Euro. The only thing you will probably remember about Euro is who had won.


and to g.spinoza... I dont know why country like Nigeria could have not organized a world class event like a football championship. It would only have had different proportions and size. But it would have been doable, certainly. And it would have been right in the sense of what sport should do and why we have it and praise it so much. What I would find indeed nonsensical is to require Nigeria to produce event in the style of advanced european country. It would be complete loss of resources.

You should remember that countries hosting Olympic Games or World Championships in football are known 6-7 years earlier, not 5.

You`re right. We should remember that all new roads constuctions didn`t started after april 2007. General Directorate of National Roads and Motorways had to prepair "new" Euro2012 projects.

and to g.spinoza... I dont know why country like Nigeria could have not organized a world class event like a football championship. It would only have had different proportions and size. But it would have been doable, certainly. And it would have been right in the sense of what sport should do and why we have it and praise it so much. What I would find indeed nonsensical is to require Nigeria to produce event in the style of advanced european country. It would be complete loss of resources.

Oh, come one, g.spinoza is still a bit grumpy because certain country starting from letter "I" did't get the tournament ;)

You understood wrong, I never mentioned Poland. You made this association, probably you think that Poland and Nigeria are comparable, not me.

I just said that this competition should be organized by countries that require less than 5 years to build infrastructures. I never said that Poland and Ukraine aren't such countries. If they can build whatever is necessary, then it's good!

Think twice and read better when you accuse someone of insulting.

Then you folks better start collecting trash in Naples, next chance is not that far..

Btw Nigeria could be really innovative option for Euro based tournament:lol:

Euro-Nigeria 2016 for the win

Euro-Nigeria 2016 for the win
Nigeria is scoring quite alot in Western Europe since the last 20 years and they are in East as well those days....

Martin Kallen: All Euro-2012 tickets are sold 10.04.2012



All tickets to the final part of the 2012 European Football Championship have been sold, said UEFA Operations Director Martin Kallen. According to him, the Ukrainian-Polish tournament has broken all records in terms of interest in purchasing entry passes to the football matches, and the number of applications alone submitted for them was in excess of 12 million!

“There will be no vacant places at any Euro-2012 arena. There are figures that testify that all the tickets to the championship have been sold. We can get off this subject and move to the football itself. This championship will become symbolic. We have never encountered such interest in the Euro during the entire history of European football,” the football functionary noted.

He said that the most active fans during the ticketing campaign were those from the two host countries, England, the Netherlands and Sweden, and they have got most of the entry passes to the matches of the future continental tournament. The UEFA operations director has also emphasized that the European Football Association is intentionally delaying sending out the tickets, which will have several levels of protection against counterfeiting.

"The official presentation will take place simultaneously in Kyiv and Warsaw on 23 April. The new tickets will have several levels of protection - more than five, and we will start the targeted distribution for fans very soon after 10 May, and everyone who bought tickets will receive them by mail. I assure you that this way all fans will be guaranteed to receive their tickets to the tournament, and those swindlers who want to profit from fake tickets are hardly likely to have the time to create something similar in such a short time", Martin Kallen explained.

Information center Ukraine 2012

Oh, come one, g.spinoza is still a bit grumpy because certain country starting from letter "I" did't get the tournament ;)

I don't give a bleep about football, I didn't even know that Italy was out. Really, I don't follow football, couldn't care less.

Then you folks better start collecting trash in Naples, next chance is not that far..



Why you people took it personal?
I never said that Italy should host the tournament. It should not. Italy is third world for these kind of things.

Happy now?

Well if you don't car about football, Poland, Ukraine, etc. Why did you bother posting anything in this thread if it wasn't going to be related to the topic in any way?

Why you people took it personal?


Oh, come on dude. First you compare Poland to Nigeria and then you are surprised that people took it personal?

Following your way of thinking only Germany and few Scandinavian countries should be allowed to host any big event. They have all the resources, their economies are not fucked up and organization will be perfect.
But wouldn't be such world a bit boring?

BTW
We Poles are strange nation, between ourselves we keep moaning and complaining about our country but when others do the same thing we jump on them and complain how dare they criticize us and our "great country" ;)
But to be honest, I found it is true about UK as well.

WOOOOWW!!! This is Poland???? Amazing!! :):cheers::cheers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpIuFa57eRI&feature=related

Polish roads:

M5haGPFFmt0

Polish roads:

M5haGPFFmt0

You got this video from the discussion about Polish Highways and Road Infrastructure, you failed to mention that what the video above presents is no longer existent !! This road was in such state for less than a month in 2011!

Nah, that video went viral. You don't think road videos like these get watched 135.000+ times by road enthusiasts alone, right?

You got this video from the discussion about Polish Highways and Road Infrastructure, you failed to mention that what the video above presents is no longer existent !! This road was in such state for less than a month in 2011!

No, I've got it from an article at Serbian B92 info portal: http://www.b92.net/automobili/razno.php?yyyy=2012&mm=04&nav_id=602304

Title of this article means "Maybe our [Serbian] roads are not that bad". No hard fellings, anyway.

^^ Polish roads are in much better condition than Serbian, actually the are in a pretty good condition.

Nah, that video went viral. You don't think road videos like these get watched 135.000+ times by road enthusiasts alone, right?

So what?

Besides, if you have a certain thesis to prove, you'll find enough arguments...

No, I've got it from an article at Serbian B92 info portal: http://www.b92.net/automobili/razno.php?yyyy=2012&mm=04&nav_id=602304

Title of this article means "Maybe our [Serbian] roads are not that bad". No hard fellings, anyway.

Exactly, nothing cures some humans' ego better than finding alleged failures/weaknesses of the others. :lol:

^^ Polish roads are in much better condition than Serbian, actually the are in a pretty good condition.

:lol:

Yeah! Some national roads are in terrible condition. Provincial roads - the tragedy. Local roads, without comment, the tragedy of x 2 This is a good roads?

DK62 - odcinek Strzelno - Kruszwica. Dalej jest na szczęście tylko lepiej



http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3867/img1334b.jpg (http://img835.imageshack.us/i/img1334b.jpg/)
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7896/img1335r.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/img1335r.jpg/)
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9817/img1336rc.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/i/img1336rc.jpg/)

Actually, what is this discussion. After all, everyone knows that in Poland polar bears are running around freely ;)

That road showed in the video actually looks like its constructed 5 years ago or something. I guess they used the wrong material or they used cheap asphalt.

DK62 is one of the least important main roads in Poland, though that's not an excuse for poor road quality.

DK62 is one of the least important main roads in Poland, though that's not an excuse for poor road quality.

Only 58% of national roads are in good condition. 17% is in poor condition. 25% in tolerable condition.

^^ Look, all of us would like to have perfect roads, but what's the influence of regular Joe Bloggs here? Can you get the things going quicker?

Having upward ambitions is certainly a good thing, but it shouldn't take effect in constant moaning, in my opinion.

Besides, were you equally eager to moan e.g. 10 years ago, when hardly any infrastructure projects were being progressed?

katsuma,

are we still in euro 2012 thread ? 'cause looking at the map of Poland I can hardly imagine DK62 can be anyhow useful for football fans.

you feel like discussing details of Polish road conditions go to appropriate section, otherwise stop messing around

Polish roads:

M5haGPFFmt0

:lol: The road was repaired last year, so that what is shown of the video doesn't exist now.

:lol:

Yeah! Some national roads are in terrible condition. Provincial roads - the tragedy. Local roads, without comment, the tragedy of x 2 This is a good roads?

But most of the national ones are in very good condition and only 17% are really bad. It's true that local roads are in poor quality(nevertheless they've improved for the last years), but most of the traffic takes place in national ones.

:lol: The road was repaired last year, so that what is shown of the video doesn't exist now.

Good for you! :lol:

katsuma,

are we still in euro 2012 thread ? 'cause looking at the map of Poland I can hardly imagine DK62 can be anyhow useful for football fans.

you feel like discussing details of Polish road conditions go to appropriate section, otherwise stop messing around

You seem to be addressing your comment to a wrong person, I guess.

Nevertheless, if you have some valuable info to add to this thread, don't be shy. ;)

^^ Look, all of us would like to have perfect roads, but what's the influence of regular Joe Bloggs here? Can you get the things going quicker?

Having upward ambitions is certainly a good thing, but it shouldn't take effect in constant moaning, in my opinion.

Besides, were you equally eager to moan e.g. 10 years ago, when hardly any infrastructure projects were being progressed?

Yes, you're right :) but, the appetite grows with what it feeds on.

Pojebało was, świetną promocję Polski robicie ;/// może jednak lepiej zachowajcie to dla siebie, nie każdy przecież tymi drogami będzie przejeżdżał wrrr co za ludzie!!

DK62 is one of the least important main roads in Poland, though that's not an excuse for poor road quality.Actually, DK62, along with DK50, are supposed to be the bypass road for heavy truck traffic around Warsaw Metropolitan Area.

Although DK50 is a priority, the role of DK62 should not be underestimated. Take a look at recently opened Serock bypass - the size of DK61/DK61 junction is not a coincidence.

Another factor is the new airport at Modlin / Nowy Dwór Mazowiecki, to be opened in June / July 2012. It will serve not only Warsaw, but also entire north-eastern Poland.

Future of DK62 are new bypasses and 2+1 / 2x2 alignments at least between Wyszków and Wyszogród.

I'm going from Suwalki to Krakow. Which road do you recomend if I want to avoid Bialystok-Warszawa route and Kielce because of the road works? Last time I lost almost 3(!) hours between Piotrkow Trybunalski and Warszawa because of the road works. Thanks!

I'm going from Suwalki to Krakow. Which road do you recomend if I want to avoid Bialystok-Warszawa route and Kielce because of the road works? Last time I lost almost 3(!) hours between Piotrkow Trybunalski and Warszawa because of the road works. Thanks!

I think works on "8" between Białystok-Warszawa aren`t heavy. There aren`t better road than this one:) Road works under construction of second carriage way on the bypass of Kielce shouldn`t make you any problems, there is no jams :)

I'm going from Suwalki to Krakow. Which road do you recomend if I want to avoid Bialystok-Warszawa route and Kielce because of the road works? Last time I lost almost 3(!) hours between Piotrkow Trybunalski and Warszawa because of the road works. Thanks!

Tell me which day of week and daypart. It really matters!

I am sure this has already been asked and answered several times, but will A2 be opened temporalely between Lodz and Warszawa for EURO2012?

will A2 be opened temporalely between Lodz and Warszawa for EURO2012?

It seems to me that would probably be possible for sections A, B, D, and E, but probably not for Section C. We'll see.

I think works on "8" between Białystok-Warszawa aren`t heavy. There aren`t better road than this one:) Road works under construction of second carriage way on the bypass of Kielce shouldn`t make you any problems, there is no jams :)

We went from Suwalki to Augustow, than through Grajewo, Lomža, Ostrow Mazowiecka, down by Minsk Mazowiecki and through Grojec, Radom and Kielce. It was a good decision, we arrived to Krakow faster than planned initially, it took us netto less than 9 hours. Still, if Poland had motoways all the way, it would take us some 6 hrs. :(

^^We`ll wait a long time before the road Warszawa-Krakow ("7") became expressway at all.

Never mind Poland (and yes, some of their roads are in a ridiculous state, trust me... I know, as Toyota started to move some of their production there, and I deliver the parts in my van...) it seems to me that the Ukraine has other problems...

^^We`ll wait a long time before the road Warszawa-Krakow ("7") became expressway at all.

I cannot think of any good excuse for failing to complete the S7 between Warsaw and Krakow by 2020.

I cannot think of any good excuse for failing to complete the S7 between Warsaw and Krakow by 2020.

It's only the connection between the country's two main cities, why would they rush? :nuts: :lol:

Hi,
Planning a trip to Kiev in June and would really appreciate some advice regarding which road to choose. Will cross the border at Dorohusk. M07 would bring me straight to Kiev but maybe I should consider accessing M06 at Rivne and drive from there to Kiev?
Any comments or ideas?

The Dutch ANWB motorist/tourist association did a pre-euro 2012 "expedition" to Kiev from the Netherlands.

At first they took the southern route via Dresden and L'viv. Crossing the border took them 30 minutes. The road to L'viv was mediocre at best, but good from L'viv tot Kiev. The Dutch embassy advises this route to Kiev (and Charkov).

They took the M07 back, the northern route to Lublin and Warszawa. Despite stories about bad roads, the M07 was in good condition, but it's nearly entirely two-lane and can be quite boring and does not have much services. Crossing the border back into Poland took 1 hour. The average speed Kiev - Dorohusk was higher than Krakovets - Kiev.

They were stopped by the police just once; in the Netherlands :lol:

They do advise to buy a proper road map of the Kiev metropolitan area because most GPS's have less than 40% of the roads in Ukraine mapped, usually only the main routes, so finding your hotel or the stadium may prove to be somewhat difficult if you don't have a good map.

M06 and M07 should be in good conditions, but connections between them may be in very bad conditions. So if you appeared on one of them, just go straightforward and do not turn on the side:lol: M07 is two-lane, but almost empty (except for stretches near Kiev). But that may not be the case during EURO.

Lemberg - Rzeszow - Svidnik - Presov - Banska Bystrica

Hello altogether, in order to avoid "travelling by night through the ukraine" (Lemberg - Berehove by night) (right back to munich after GER-POR) its my intention to use the above mentioned route. Has anyone some experience with that route? exhausting/road conditions/safety etc... I'm looking forward to your answers....

Lemberg - Rzeszow - Svidnik - Presov - Banska Bystrica

Hello altogether, in order to avoid "travelling by night through the ukraine" (Lemberg - Berehove by night) (right back to munich after GER-POR) its my intention to use the above mentioned route. Has anyone some experience with that route? exhausting/road conditions/safety etc... I'm looking forward to your answers....

Some parts are new, some are old, some are under construction. The new parts of the Slovak D1 are very good.

The Dutch ANWB motorist/tourist association did a pre-euro 2012 "expedition" to Kiev from the Netherlands.

At first they took the southern route via Dresden and L'viv. Crossing the border took them 30 minutes. The road to L'viv was mediocre at best, but good from L'viv tot Kiev. The Dutch embassy advises this route to Kiev (and Charkov).

They took the M07 back, the northern route to Lublin and Warszawa. Despite stories about bad roads, the M07 was in good condition, but it's nearly entirely two-lane and can be quite boring and does not have much services. Crossing the border back into Poland took 1 hour. The average speed Kiev - Dorohusk was higher than Krakovets - Kiev.

They were stopped by the police just once; in the Netherlands :lol:

They do advise to buy a proper road map of the Kiev metropolitan area because most GPS's have less than 40% of the roads in Ukraine mapped, usually only the main routes, so finding your hotel or the stadium may prove to be somewhat difficult if you don't have a good map.


Thanks for the update!

Are there any photos of the temporary Euro 2012 signs?

http://www.polishguide2012.pl/uploads/znaki_kierunkowe_1_big_1336747076.jpg

http://d.polskatimes.pl/k/r/11/59/cd/4fb4c348a6425_k2.jpg?1337246694

http://gfx.mmka.pl/newsph/413247/1063131.3.jpg

Thanks! How frequently are they signposted?

'At major [national] road crossings and borders' - that's all I've found.

Kyjiv? i have never seen that transliteration.

That's Ukrainian. We usually use the Russian name (Kiev).

That's Ukrainian. We usually use the Russian name (Kiev).

and what about Kyiv? i thought that was proper ukrainian transliteration. actually, i have never seen transliteration with all 3 - y, j, i. slavic "j" is usually transliterated as "y".

In English, the name of the city is Kiev, but the usual transliteration from Ukrainian is Kyiv. Neither can be said to be wrong.