Yeah, I'd love if 20 years down the road we'd have teams in Halifax, Moncton, Quebec City, Ottawa, KW, Windsor, Saskatoon, the Okanagan, Victoria, and Abbotsford, and eventually 2 - 4 teams in each of Montreal and Toronto.

I much prefer how things are structured in England and Australia where by the big cities field from 3 or more teams, while smaller cities have one. That way you get more parity between the cities. These are leagues designed to fit the country they operate in.

It would make far more sense to have a CFL team in downtown Toronto, one in Mississauga, one in North York, and another in Oshawa-Durham. Montreal could have the Allouettes, and another one in Laval.

That would never work.

I think it would work. We have to give it a try. The bigger concern maybe that no will ever do that....not to mention the fact that the CFL probably has some archaic "regional restrictions" where it wouldn't allow new teams to emerge in an already established market. I think Mississauga could definitely work though. The population is big enough, the per capita income is high enough and there is more than enough corporate presence in the city. In addition, I've noticed more and more people feeling a disconnect between Mississauga and Toronto. It's not just a bedroom community for Toronto anymore. It's a city unto itself, albeit a poorly planned one. I absolutely believe that Mississauga can sustain a CFL and even an NHL franchise if given a chance.

Unless they play in tiny stadiums, I don't see that happening.

A CFL/NFL merger would be ideal in my mind. I know that some want to maintain a unique identity and all, but it's pretty weak that the two nations are together in every sport but our two mildly different codes of gridiron football. Maybe some small compromise in the rules could permit such a thing. I too like the CFL passing game more.

Horrible idea. Even ignoring the difference in rules, the leagues are not on par with each other in terms of talent and all a merger would do is kill the CFL, and dilute the talent in the NFL. There are too many teams in the NFL already IMHO. And in the end, the only teams in the CFL likely to survive are those like Toronto and maybe one or two more.

Horrible idea. Even ignoring the difference in rules, the leagues are not on par with each other in terms of talent and all a merger would do is kill the CFL, and dilute the talent in the NFL. There are too many teams in the NFL already IMHO. And in the end, the only teams in the CFL likely to survive are those like Toronto and maybe one or two more.
You don't think salary structures and revenue sharing would be transferred over? Like I said, some really small markets survive in the NFL because of this. Furthermore, the Argos and Bills would not be faced with this alleged NFL lust of Torontonians.

In terms of dilution, the severity is debatable. It's the biggest sport in a nation of 300 million people and near the top in a nation of 30 million more. There is an assload of people who play the sport at a high level right now. It might thin some benches or weaken the arena league, but that's about it.

IT's still a bad idea. You don't combine Rugby League with Rugby Union. Why woul; you combine these two.

IT's still a bad idea. You don't combine Rugby League with Rugby Union. Why woul; you combine these two.

It's called adopting rules like they did with the USFL. You clearly are just a bandwagon type and don't know anything about sports because if you did, you would know rugby union is a completely different sport while the CFL only has some cosmetic changes from the NFL.

Unless they play in tiny stadiums, I don't see that happening.

I agree. 4 CFL teams in one metro area saturates the market.

You don't think salary structures and revenue sharing would be transferred over? Like I said, some really small markets survive in the NFL because of this. Furthermore, the Argos and Bills would not be faced with this alleged NFL lust of Torontonians.

In terms of dilution, the severity is debatable. It's the biggest sport in a nation of 300 million people and near the top in a nation of 30 million more. There is an assload of people who play the sport at a high level right now. It might thin some benches or weaken the arena league, but that's about it.

The NFL would never merge with the CFL. And it would be a bad idea if it happened. As another poster already mentioned, it would dilute talent.

It's called adopting rules like they with the USFL. You clearly are just a bandwagon type and don't know anything about sports because if you did, you would know rugby union is a completely different sport while the CFL only has some cosmetic changes from the NFL.

WTF Rugby Union isn't completely different?!?!?! The only real changes is the restart of play and the amount of plyers on the pitch. other than that, they are pretty much the same.

Hell the reason there are 2 DIFFERENT RUGBY CODES doesn't even have to do with the rules changes.

WTF Rugby Union isn't completely different?!?!?! The only real changes is the restart of play and the amount of plyers on the pitch. other than that, they are pretty much the same.
Competitive scrums, lineouts, shoulder charges, etc.

NFL and CFL are more alike. Also, the rugby codes are divided by social factors, not just rules.

Competitive scrums, lineouts, shoulder charges, etc.

NFL and CFL are more alike. Also, the rugby codes are divided by social factors, not just rules.

Never said I didn't agree with that.

That would never work.

Why? It works in almost every other market in the western world.

I absolutely believe that Mississauga can sustain a CFL and even an NHL franchise if given a chance.

It's potentially one of the best markets in the nation. It's simply never been cultivated.

London can have 5 teams in the Premiere, only two are really successful, and if you look at the winners from the last 16 seasons, its resumes to only 4 teams from 3 cities, and thats from a country roughly twice our size with only one major sports league running the show.

In Canada a similar league would be dominated by the two biggest market, namely Montreal and Toronto... not too intresting if you ask me.

I'm not saying the Premiership is boring, but really it's more interesting for its fans when they play the uefa cup or champions league (nhl/nfl equivalent in my book).

Arsenal: London
Manchester United: Manchester
Chelsea: London
Blackburn Rovers: Blackburn

Season Winner
1992–93 Manchester United
1993–94 Manchester United
1994–95 Blackburn Rovers
1995–96 Manchester United
1996–97 Manchester United
1997–98 Arsenal
1998–99 Manchester United
1999–2000 Manchester United
2000–01 Manchester United
2001–02 Arsenal
2002–03 Manchester United
2003–04 Arsenal
2004–05 Chelsea
2005–06 Chelsea
2006–07 Manchester United
2007–08 Manchester United

no expansion.

In Canada a similar league would be dominated by the two biggest market, namely Montreal and Toronto... not too intresting if you ask me.

I'm not saying the Premiership is boring, but really it's more interesting for its fans when they play the uefa cup or champions league (nhl/nfl equivalent in my book).


Having a league dominated by Toronto and Montreal clubs is a lot more interesting than having a Canadian team in the championship game once every 20 years or so. Bear in mind that these would be different clubs in the same metros. People in England don't think of Arsenal and Chelsea as London. They are independent entities with separate loyal fan bases.

My proposed league structure wouldn't be dominated by clubs from just 2 cities either. There are many sizable markets in Canada and revenue sharing would be the hallmark of any such league. It's to the benefit of big market clubs to have a healthy balanced league. All teams benefit from maintaining a league that can sustain 16-20 clubs rather than 6 big ones, and another 6 existing in obscurity.

By the way, England isn't twice as big as Canada, the UK is. England has a population of 49 million compared to 33 million for Canada. That's not a huge difference. Australia has only 21 million. Australians don't seem to find it boring having championship teams from Melbourne all the time. At least they have a true national championship of football EVERY year with all regions of Australia having the opportunity to shoot for a title each year. It builds national unity and strengthens Australian culture and identity.

You and I are not going to agree on this subject. That is fine. Just realize that there are people who hate the present system and find it destructive to the maturation of Canadian culture and cohesion. Our arguments are valid, they just don't appeal to you, that's all.

Saint John's.

Just thought of something. If Halifax had a football club, they would have one sexy club crest!

Well there's St. John's which is in NL, and Saint John which is in NB. They are traditionally written like that to avoid confusion. Which one do you mean? I'm assuming the one in NL.

I was just kidding, there's probably no chance to see a CFL team in NL. I think Halifax is next on the list.

London can have 5 teams in the Premiere, only two are really successful, and if you look at the winners from the last 16 seasons, its resumes to only 4 teams from 3 cities, and thats from a country roughly twice our size with only one major sports league running the show.

In Canada a similar league would be dominated by the two biggest market, namely Montreal and Toronto... not too intresting if you ask me.

I'm not saying the Premiership is boring, but really it's more interesting for its fans when they play the uefa cup or champions league (nhl/nfl equivalent in my book).

Arsenal: London
Manchester United: Manchester
Chelsea: London
Blackburn Rovers: Blackburn

Season Winner
1992–93 Manchester United
1993–94 Manchester United
1994–95 Blackburn Rovers
1995–96 Manchester United
1996–97 Manchester United
1997–98 Arsenal
1998–99 Manchester United
1999–2000 Manchester United
2000–01 Manchester United
2001–02 Arsenal
2002–03 Manchester United
2003–04 Arsenal
2004–05 Chelsea
2005–06 Chelsea
2006–07 Manchester United
2007–08 Manchester United

That's irrelevant. The debate is whether more than one team per city in a league would be financially successful enough to be able to stay above the water, not if they can compete in terms of championships. If you look at the "secondary" London teams such as Totenham and Fulham ... they're doing EXTREMELY well in terms of staying in the black. In fact I think it would be safe to assume that even those teams are valued more than TML and the Habs.

Canada vs. Jamaica Tomorrow!

Fulham has huge support. You don't need to win championships to maintain a valued franchise. Just look at the Maple Leafs in hockey.

What sport?

^ FIFA i think!

Bobsleigh.

Fulham has huge support. You don't need to win championships to maintain a valued franchise. Just look at the Maple Leafs in hockey.

LOL :lol:

Even though I think multiple teams in one city (especially in and around Toronto can work) I think we've let the single team per city philosophy to live long enough that any thing else will not be viewed as being viable. In cities like London and Melbourne where there are about a dozen footy teams each, the professional clubs there have grown their roots for decades upon decades now ... heck, I believe Melbourne has a footy (AFL club) that was formed in 1850's ... so I guess what I'm trying to say is that it may be too late to change the philosophy as at the Maple Leafs and Argos of our city have already established strong firm roots in regions all across the GTA and further. Any new franchise will have to face off against a century of established fan bases. Multiple franchises usually require (although not necessarily) social and regional rivalry within the city limits to flourish . Here in Toronto, all of our sports teams are sported equally well by all regions of the city, blue collar or otherwise, so we don't have the same situation here.

With that said, I can say for certain that Mississauga can definitely house new professional franchises as there is enough regional animosity against Toronto and such that people will be most definitely willing to switch allegiances if there is a team in their own (rather large) backyard.

Canada v Jamaica match is on now but the criminal thing is Blue Jays baseball, which is televised daily, takes precedence over a World Cup Qualifying match by Canada's national men's team. It's being streamed on SN and tape delayed later.

Gerry Dobson has another one of his great articles on the SN site. He talks about the FieldTurf issue at BMO Field and how there might finally be changes coming soon. Due to footballers and especially fans who have a big distaste for the plastic grass. Here is what he says -


And finally, there's Mo Johnston. The gloves are off -- No more Mr. Nice Guy when the subject is the BMO pitch. I get the distinct feeling MLSE have made a conscious decision to throw it out there and see if it sticks. It's the beginning of the lobbying process to convince the politicians that a change has to be made. It's now apparent the lion's share of the Maurice Edu transfer money will be used to create a training facility, upgrade the academy, and get real grass at BMO Field. Johnston has said so himself.

As guardians of the transfer money, the MLS has to approve the plan, and they will. Make no mistake. As far as MLSE is concerned, this is now priority No. 1. I can tell you this team has lost seven potential players because of the turf, and that includes Darren Huckerby. And so its' been a busy week. Let's cap it off with a win for Canada over Jamaica and a win for the Reds over New England.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/blogs/2008/08/20/dobson_grass_bmo/

Also at TSN -

TORONTO - Maurice Edu is headed for greener pastures with Glasgow Rangers. But the U.S. international midfielder could leave a green legacy of his own in Toronto.

Mo Johnston, director of football for Toronto FC, said Tuesday he may try to use his club's share of Edu's US$5-million transfer fee to replace the FieldTurf at BMO Field with natural grass.

You're spot on in mentioning the historical precedent in Melbourne and London for multiple clubs. I think we should try though. It only takes one generation to create a loyal fan base. Look at the NFL! If you had told anyone in Canada back in 1970 that the NFL would rival the CFL one day in popularity here in Canada, they would have thought you were high.

New franchises will always have an uphill battle, but in 15 years, these new teams would enjoy a fan base that has known nothing else but the new franchise. Toronto's a rapidly growing metro. You've got 100,000 newcomers almost every year who know nothing of the entrenched franchises here.

I could definitely see a rivalry develop between teams in Hamilton, Mississauga, Toronto, and Durham.

^^OK, thanks. I thought it was men's soccer, but wasn't sure. I take the 401 King, so I'm often aware when there's a game set to start, in progress, or just finished. Hopefully, that new CBC Sports channel will make games like this more accessible for Canadians.

A very disappointing result. Canada tied Jamaica 1-1.

Canada v Jamaica match is on now but the criminal thing is Blue Jays baseball, which is televised daily, takes precedence over a World Cup Qualifying match by Canada's national men's team.

It is all about contracts. If I had a professional team and signed a season's tv contract for certain nights of the week, I would not want to see it bumped for other events! :)

A very disappointing result. Canada tied Jamaica 1-1.

Ehhh, it wasn't that bad. I think near the end we could have won but at least we can leave this game learning from our mistakes, luckily our mistake only cost us 2 points instead of 3.

Yeah, the match itself wasn't bad. Canada had a bunch of great chances but was unlucky on many ocassions. Its just the result itself that was disappointing. We really needed the three points against the weakest team in the group.

It is all about contracts. If I had a professional team and signed a season's tv contract for certain nights of the week, I would not want to see it bumped for other events! :)

I know, same with me, but it still stinks. I wish there was a way where the national team could have a little more importance with such important events. We'll have to be patient in the meantime.

With the match, it wasn't too bad and they got unlucky on that goal that slipped past Onsted. I think Canada will play better against an opponent that plays better. I love how Dobson brought up the grass pitch issue!

If anyone wants e-mail updates on our amateur athletes and teams I've got a Canadian sports newsletter (http://sportsportal.ca/page/4/newsletter/). Feel free to sign up... it'll keep you up to date on results, events, medals won etc. :cheers:

Canada v Jamaica match is on now but the criminal thing is Blue Jays baseball, which is televised daily, takes precedence over a World Cup Qualifying match by Canada's national men's team. It's being streamed on SN and tape delayed later.

True. The thing is there's nowhere in Canada where baseball trumps soccer. Damn Rogers and their iPhone monopoly!

Just thought of something. If Halifax had a football club, they would have one sexy club crest!


Something I have been wondering all week.. why? What crest did you have in mind?

Something I have been wondering all week.. why? What crest did you have in mind?

Yeah ... the randomness of the post did boggle my mind as well. Although I think we're meant to assume that the crest would include the flag of Halifax, which does indeed look quite kick ass if I may say so myself:

http://images.civicheraldry.com/120/halifax_city_fl_n7784.gif

LOL it actually started when I saw a car go by on the street with a Nova Scotia car flag.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Flag_of_Nova_Scotia.svg/800px-Flag_of_Nova_Scotia.svg.png

Yeah ... the randomness of the post did boggle my mind as well. Although I think we're meant to assume that the crest would include the flag of Halifax, which does indeed look quite kick ass if I may say so myself:

http://images.civicheraldry.com/120/halifax_city_fl_n7784.gif

I'm lovin' this flag. Woody Woodpecker in a four way scramble intersection, with two ships honking their horns for him to hurry up and make up his mind which way he is going to walk!! :D

yeah, they would have a hard time not making an awesome crest with their city flag and their provincial flag.

St. John's would have a nice set of colours too, if they ever get a footie club.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Flag_of_Newfoundland.svg/800px-Flag_of_Newfoundland.svg.png

Man, If I were a billionaire!

I think the Nova Scotia flag in some way on a shield, if allowed, would be a perfect crest/logo for a Halifax footie club. The people there might want something different but it would look really smart. That or using that sailing ship in some fashion within a shield.

For Vancouver FC:wink2:<<<when we get a franchise, a ship also might be cool. I think the fans here will probably want to keep the Whitecaps name though. I think with that route they should just have Vancouver FC as the official name and use Whitecaps as the unofficial name similar to how TFC uses the Reds.

You could also tie in whitecaps and a ship within a design due to both being oceanic. This or use whitecaps as a term for both whitecaps(the sea) and white caps(the hat). Why not market the team using white caps, like New Zealand cricket team are known as the Black Caps. Hell, as a marketing gimmick they could hand out/sell cheap white newsboy caps to fans when they come in. Hmmm...

The Whitecaps is a very traditional name and I hope they don't change from. From what I've read, the earliest football matches were played between teams that had different coloured caps, not jerseys, which is what you see today. So like baseball with the Red Socks and White Socks, football teams were known by the colour of their caps.

Now I know this most probably wasn't the intention behind the team name but it is something cool anyways.

hmm..interesting point. I assumed the whitecaps just referred to waves on the ocean.

Well, the Impact are leading 1-nil in their first concacaf champions league match vs Esteli FC. 18 minutes left. Go Impact!

That's it, it'S over! The Impact wins 1-nil!!!:banana::cheers:

Boooo!

Boooo!

He he he!!!:banana:Lovin' it!:)

How did the Impact get its name?

How did the Impact get its name?

I have no idea, we would have to ask Joey Saputo to find that out.

How did the Impact get its name?
I heard it was preferable because it meant the same in English and French.

I heard it was preferable because it meant the same in English and French.


That is most likely part of the answer.

Good on Montreal for advancing to Group Stage of Champions League!! They beat Real Esteli(Nicaragua) 1 nil on aggregate in the Prelims.

They're in Group C with Atlante FC(Mexico), Joe Public(Trinidad), and Club Deportivo Olimpia(Honduras).

Next is Matchday 1 on 17 Sept against Joe Public.

Good on Montreal for advancing to Group Stage of Champions League!! They beat Real Esteli(Honduras) 1 nil on aggregate in the Prelims.

They're in Group C with Atlante FC(Mexico), Joe Public(Trinidad), and Club Deportivo Olimpia(Honduras).

Next is Matchday 1 on 17 Sept against Joe Public.

I watched both games, and they were both nerve racking! But congrats to the impact for moving on to the next round.

They should be careful about Joe Public, they just beat the New England Revolution 4-nil... this is gonna be a tough series!

Congrats to the Impact. I thought it was a bit of a gong show late in the game, thanks to the ref. I don't see a lot from the Impact going forward with them not creating a lot of goal scoring opportunities. They're in tough, but best of luck to them.

Federal cash could put CFL team in Quebec City


RHEAL SEGUIN
Globe and Mail Update
September 3, 2008 at 3:31 PM EDT

The federal government will announce today a multimillion dollar infrastructure program for Quebec that could pave the way for a Canadian Football league franchise in Quebec City.

The federal funding includes the expansion and renovation of Quebec City's Laval University sports centre where local investors are offering to expand the football stadium in their bid for a CFL franchise.

According to prominent Quebec City lawyer Marc Bellemare, local investors have already set aside half of the $40-million needed to expand the stadium with the other half expected to come from other potential investors once the project is approved.

However the head of Laval University Denis Brière has been reluctant in giving his full support to the stadium's expansion for a CFL franchise.

“It would be irresponsible to say no to the expansion of the football stadium.,” Mr. Bellemare said on behalf of the anonymous investors in an interview on Tuesday. “The investors need to settle the situation involving the stadium. And then we can move and show the rest of Canada that Quebec City is truly a city capable of attracting a CFL franchise.”

According to a marketing conducted on behalf of the investors the marketing firm Impact Recherche, 71 per cent of Quebec City residents support a CFL franchise. The study obtained by the Globe and Mail showed that 43-per cent of the 1001 people polled would be interested in purchasing a season ticket and that 85-per cent believed that Laval University sports centre would be an appropriate location to hold CFL games.

The investors worked closely with the Montreal Alouettes in preparing their project for a CFL franchise. Alouette's president Larry Smitth said in a recent local radio interview he embraced Quebec City as a potential CFL franchise location saying it would create a healthy rivalry between the two city that would boost interest for the league throughout Quebec. According to Mr. Bellemare, CFL director general Michael Copeland also indicated to him that Quebec City would be an ideal location for the league's proposed expansion project.

Quebec City has one of the most popular university football teams where the Laval University Rouge et Or has attracted as many as 19,000 people to local games in a stadium that only has slightly more than 10,000 seats. The marketing study showed that the attraction of CFL franchise in the city would not have a negative impact on the popularity of local university foot ball games.

“The university hold four local games per season. Most of the CFL local games could be scheduled in July and August and would no compete with the university games,” Mr. Bellemare said. “Now it's up to the government to urge the university to change their plans for a new sports centre to allow for the stadium's expansion.

Laval University's current $85-million sports centre proposal includes the construction of an indoor soccer field on empty land next to the current football stadium. The city has announced it will inject $10-million in the project with the other $75-million coming from equal contributions from Ottawa and the province.

The investors have proposed that the university modify the plan in order to move the soccer stadium further east and use the empty field for the expansion of the football field.

Today federal Minister of Transport, Infrastruture and Communities Lawrence cannon will confirm Ottawa's contribution to the university's sport centre proposal. Mr. Cannon as well as Quebec Finance Minister Monique Jérôme-Forget are expected to respond to investors' proposal for changes to the University's plan that could pave the way for a CFL franchise in the city.


This is great news for Q.C. Like the article mentions, this city is ready for CFL football, not to mention the immediate rivalry it would create with the Als.

Expect lots of cash announcements now that an election is looming.

Expect lots of cash announcements now that an election is looming.


Well, looks like I posted the previous article too soon. I just read another Article on cyberpresse.ca, saying that the Federal gov't would not invest in a stadium.

Maybe they will require voting promises first before they hand over money! :D

Out of curiosity. If the Impact made it to the quarterfinals of Champions League, which is in February, where would they play?

Out of curiosity. If the Impact made it to the quarterfinals of Champions League, which is in February, where would they play?


Most likely in the Big O. The Als already play their playoff games there on the new Fieldturf. I don't see why the Impact couldn't play there!

Real Esteli is from Nicaragua btw.

oops...that's right. Thanks!

$65-million BC Place Olympic Interior Facelift Contract Signed
Details on new roof to come in February 2009

9/4/2008

A 65-million dollar upgrade of BC Place has started, with the contract being awarded to general contractor Dominion Fairmile.

Operators say the 25-year old stadium needs renovations which include better access for the disabled and improved food services, but Pavco Chair David Podmore is not ready to disclose the price tag of a new retractable roof.

“I'm not going to give you a number until we have completed design, we've had the opportunity to go through a detailed costing, we'll then present a budget, we'll explain how that budget is built up," Podmore said.

Podmore says that contract should be awarded in February.

He insists the entire project will be completed by the summer of 2011, just in time for the Vancouver whitecaps to open their first season as members of the major soccer league.

Podmore said the work will include new lighting, refurbished concessions and improved hospitality suites.

Video tour: http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal...aspx?ID=1024526 (http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1024526)




Gate Awning Elevation
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/images/media_new/BCP_GateAwningElevation.jpg



Ramps
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/images/media_new/BCP_RamptoFoodCourt.jpg




Concourse
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/images/media_new/BCP_Concourse.jpg



Concourse murals
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/images/media_new/BCP_ConcourseMural.jpg




Concessions
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/images/media_new/BCP_Consession.jpg




Typical Suite
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/images/media_new/BCP_TypicalSuiteElevation.jpg
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/images/media_new/BCP_TypicalSuiteInterior.jpg



Lounge
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/images/media_new/BCP_EdgewaterLoungeEntrance.jpg
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/images/media_new/BCP_EdgewaterLounge.jpg

There doesn't appear to be a mention of the exterior cosmetic changes we saw in the renderings released in the May announcement. I guess this will be announced when the Feb info comes out.

There doesn't appear to be a mention of the exterior cosmetic changes we saw in the renderings released in the May announcement. I guess this will be announced when the Feb info comes out.

They may be part of the roof structure....they don't want to tamper with anything outside since it will involve the roof.

Well what can you say, the Riders pull out another one. Somehow, someway they keep on winning!

Riders win in dramatic fashion
Luca Congi kicks game-winning, 29-yard field goal on the final play
Murray McCormick, Leader-Post
Published: Sunday, September 07, 2008
WINNIPEG -- The Saskatchewan Roughriders continued to live life on the edge with a thrilling 34-31 victory over the Winnipeg Blue Bombers on Sunday.

The Riders roared back from a 31-14 deficit with a 20-point explosion that rocked the sellout crowd of 29,770 at Canad Inns Stadium. Saskatchewan improved to 8-2 with the victory and retained its hold on first place in the West Division.

"We have a great leadership on this team and that is a determining factor,'' said kicker Luca Congi, who drilled a 29-yard field goal without any time left on the clock to clinch the Riders' victory. "We've been around and we know what it takes to win. We might be down but we know what it takes to come back and win.''

On Sunday, the Roughriders won for the third time this season after trailing in the fourth quarter. They have also iced two wins with fourth-quarter bursts after being tied after the third quarter. The confidence and belief that the game isn't over is among the reasons the Riders seem to be able to overcome injuries and other types of adversity en route to being in first in the West.

"Of course we have a lot of people hurt but we keep chugging along,'' said veteran defensive back Eddie Davis. "The guys we do have who are healthy have to play that much better. We've been playing good team football and we have to keep doing that for the rest of the year.''

The defence rose to the occasion in the Riders' 19-6 victory over the Blue Bombers in the Labour Day Classic on Aug. 31. On Sunday, it was the offence's turn to shine. Quarterback Michael Bishop, who was acquired on Aug. 23 from the Toronto Argonauts for a conditional pick in the 2011 CFL draft, improved to 2-0 as the Riders' starting quarterback.

Bishop made 24-of-30 passes for 370 yards and three touchdown passes in the win. He connected with rookie Weston Dressler on touchdown passes of 31 and 45 yards. Dressler finished the game with a season-high 119 yards on six receptions.

Bishop also found Vincent Marshall for a 32-yard touchdown pass. Wes Cates opened the scoring on Saskatchewan's first drive with a three-yard run.

But it was a 45-yard bomb to Gerran Walker with 12 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter that will have the Rider Nation buzzing.

The pass showed off the strength of Bishop's arm and the accuracy as he hit Walker on Winnipeg's 22-yard-line. Walker was playing his first game since being added to the practice roster on Aug. 25.

"I knew that I was coming into a situation where these guys were winners,'' said Walker, who spent most of the 2007 season on the practice roster with the NFL's Pittsburgh Steelers. "Even though we have a lot of injuries, the standard doesn't change. Guys still have to make your play when your chance comes to do it. I just tried to do my part.''

Winnipeg picked up rushing touchdowns from Fred Reid and Joe Smith and quarterback Kevin Glenn threw two touchdown passes to Terrence Edwards. Kicker Alexis Serna also connected on a field goal. The Blue Bombers appeared to have the game in hand until the Riders started to rally.

"That's the most mind-blowing loss I've ever been a part of," Winnipeg linebacker Cam Hall told reporters. "We just let everything slip. Going into the fourth quarter with a comfortable lead, with all the momentum, with all the fans behind us, everything was great. And then, in the fourth quarter, for lack of a better term we just (crapped) the bed. We (crapped) the bed, plain and simple."

It appeared the Riders had done the same early in the third quarter. Congi never had a chance to connect on a 22-yard field goal attempt because Rob Bagg mishandled the hold. The Blue Bombers jumped on the loose ball and cap that possession with a second touchdown pass to Edwards to grab a 31-14 lead.

"I've never mishandled a snap like that before but I got some life back into me when we won the game,'' said Bagg, who had six reception for 52 yards. "Everyone played so hard, especially Walker. He probably saved my job for another week. We'll have to see what happens.''

The game marked the continuation of another theme -- injuries. The Riders lost defensive end John Chick early to a compound fracture of the ring finger on his right hand.

"I could have played if it was just a broken finger but the bone went through the skin,'' said Chick, who had returned from the nine-game injury list for Sunday's game. "It wouldn't stay in place and that was the issue.''

Defensive tackle Marcus Adams also missed time with a sprained ankle. Cates was on the sidelines after taking a hit in the head. Cates returned and rushed for 45 yards on eight carries.

Cornerback Omarr Morgan was also injured in the second half after a third-quarter tackle.

The Riders have Monday off before resuming preparations for Saturday's game in Vancouver against the B.C. Lions.

mmccormick@leaderpost.canwest.com

Buy a ticket bundle for best chance of Vancouver 2010 tickets: Vanoc

Derrick Penner, Vancouver Sun
Published: Wednesday, September 10, 2008

The public's best chance to get tickets to premier 2010 Olympic events will be by purchasing bundled ticket packages that Olympic organizers are putting together, officials have revealed.

Vancouver Olympic organizers will open sales for the biggest block of tickets available to the public starting Oct. 3, and have begun a three-week campaign to unveil the information would-be buyers need to try to gain access to the high-demand sports.

There won't be a rush because tickets will not be sold on a first-come-first-served basis. Games organizers will take applications for tickets from Oct. 3 to Nov. 7; no matter when they arrive, all applications will receive equal consideration.

Purchasers will also need to pull out their Visa cards. Although Vanoc won't charge their cards right away, a credit card number will be needed to secure a purchase order. Visa will be the only one accepted, since the company is a top Winter Games sponsor.

However, there will also be a method to buy tickets using a cheque or money order.

Priority for filling public ticket orders, however, will go to those who want to buy what Vanoc officials are calling Olympic experience packages: multi-day packages that bundle at least one event ticket per day, plus one ticket to one of the nightly victory ceremonies at BC Place Stadium, where the majority of medals will be presented.

"[Package purchasers] will be seated before [individual ticket purchasers] at an event," said Caley Denton, vice-president of ticketing and consumer marketing for the Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Games [Vanoc].

"Having said that, we will never sell out the full public allocation [of tickets] through packages," Denton added.

The packages will be designed much like cable television bundles, but Dave Cobb, Vanoc's executive-vice president for revenue and marketing, denied the exercise is about offloading tickets to less desirable sports along with seats to marquee events.

"It isn't about filling weak events," Cobb said, because Vanoc officials know they will be able to sell out venues.

"Our objective is getting people into seats and getting as many tickets as possible into the hands of the public," he said.

Details about Olympic-experience packages will be released Sept. 17, when Vanoc relaunches its website. Denton said there will be two different programs, one aimed at short-term visitors and another for local residents to take advantage of, with event tickets for evening and weekend sporting sessions.

Cobb added that packages were designed based on consumer research and the logistics of getting purchasers to all the events.

Nor will they come at a discount. Denton said prices will be the total face-value amount of the event tickets, including the victory ceremony.

Vanoc has also revealed ticket details for the nightly victory ceremonies. They will make available 30,000 tickets for the events, which will include entertainment by top acts, as well as presentation of most of the competition medals.

Some 10,000 tickets will be free, but the bulk of 20,000 will be sold for $22 each.

Cobb, in a briefing, said Vanoc is now confident it will exceed its $232-million revenue target for ticket sales, based on its market research and requests for tickets by the so-called Olympic family of national Olympic committees, sponsors and sports federations.

The $231 million figure in Vanoc's current budget was based on an estimate that it would sell almost 90 per cent of available tickets.

"We know if [tickets] go on sale to the public, and they don't sell as many as expected, we'll go back to the Olympic family and fill their orders," Cobb said.

As it is, Cobb added that Vanoc won't be able to fill all of the requests that Olympic family members have placed for tickets.

Vanoc will have two million tickets to sell, 1.6 million to the sports events and opening and closing ceremonies, the rest to the nightly ceremonies.

Vanoc has vowed that 70 per cent of those 1.6 million competition and ceremonies tickets will be available to the public. More than 60 per cent of total tickets will be available in Canada.

Vanoc will only sell tickets inside Canada. National Olympic committees in participating countries are responsible for selling allocations of tickets in their territories, which will also begin Oct. 3.

It won't be 70 per cent across the board, though, Cobb explained. He said the proportion of seats taken up by the public and that taken by the Olympic family will vary depending on demands by the Olympic family.

However, Cobb said that no fewer than 30 per cent of any one event's tickets - even for the figure skating and hockey finals - will go to the public.

One challenge, Cobb added, was balancing all the Olympic-family requests for tickets, which in some cases exceeded the capacity of venues where events will be held. Vanoc could have filled GM Place twice over with Olympic-family members, for instance.

The allocations that Vanoc has given to the Olympic family members, which includes almost 200 constituent groups, are with the International Olympic Committee for final approval, which Cobb is confident Vanoc will receive.

He said the IOC has approved Vanoc's global allocation of 30 per cent of all tickets to the Olympic family.

"The result of it is that nobody [in the Olympic family] will get everything they ordered, especially for top events," Cobb said.

While he expects some "push-back" when groups learn what tickets they have been awarded, Cobb said the IOC and key sponsors have been supportive of Vanoc's campaign to fill every available seat and avoid some of the embarrassments that pictures of large blocks of empty seats provided at the Beijing and Turin Games.

depenner@vancouversun.com

We should be posting Olympics news in the Winter Olympics section! :)

*sigh* Canada @ Mexico tonight, don't get too excited.

After being hyped all day after my England winning I was hoping Canada could pull off an upset....ya right. But......they have come back with a goal with 10 mins left. It's 2-1 Mexico so far.

They should just send out a whack of strikers and attack, attack!!

I was considering hanging myself for a bit there. Hmmm.... I look forward to our 2014 run then. Mitchell is gonna have to go. Thats two disasters now, with the Under 20s and now this. We really need to bring in someone like a Sven Goran Erickson next time. Certainly can't look within Canada for a coach/manager. Of course, a few world class players would be nice too.

You're right, Mitchell needs to go, and I hate to say it but Canada needs an experienced foreign coach. But of course this is the tip of the iceberg. The Canadian Soccer Association needs to be completely overhauled, similar to what Australia has so successfully done. Here is what the Aussies did and what Canada really needs to do --


2003 - Soccer Australia collapses after an indepedent inquiry called, the Crawford Report; brought on by failure to qualify for WC's, mismanagement, conflict of interest, corruption.

- Findings of the report are dismissed by Soccer Australia.

- Australian Gov't threatens to withdraw funding unless Crawford Report measures are implemented.

- Soccer Australia board resigned en-masse.

- Reconstitution of the organisation as the Australia Soccer Association (ASA) with an interim board headed by a prominent businessman.

- A-League domestic league formed.


2005 - The ASA renames itself Football Federation Australia to align itself with the general international usage of the word "football", in preference to "soccer", and to also distance itself from the failings of the old National Soccer League and Soccer Australia. It coined the phrase "old soccer, new football" to emphasise this.(I think Canada really needs to do this, to refresh the sport in Canada and rebrand itself. Canada and the US are now the only countries using the term soccer).

- Australia qualifies for the World Cup for the first time in 32 years.


2007 - Australia qualifies and plays in the Asian Cup. Made it to the Quarter Finals.

2008 - Australia formally announced their intention to bid for the 2018 FIFA World Cup.

- Australia's World Ranking. At the time of the big change to their org., they ended up plummetting to 89 and now have moved up to 38 today.

Big day is here for Mac's new stadium

September 13, 2008
The Hamilton Spectator

http://media.hamiltonspectator.com/images/59/08/e9c976a54ed3b0919ca7a75f77ef.jpeg

It's been years -- and $23 million -- in the making. But tonight the wait finally ends and a new era for Hamilton sports begins when McMaster University officially opens the beautiful Ron Joyce Stadium, when the football Marauders take on the University of Ottawa.

Melnyk to make pitch for MLS team
Richard Starnes, Canwest News Service
Published: Saturday, September 13, 2008
OTTAWA - Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk will officially announce his bid for a Major League Soccer franchise at a press conference Tuesday.

Melnyk, who has revealed plans to build a "world-class" stadium in Ottawa, had previously stated his intention to go after a franchise, which will cost at least $40 million US.

MLS currently has 14 teams - including Toronto FC - and has announced plans to slowly increase that number to 20 or even 24.

In order to land a franchise, Melnyk will need to offer a soccer-specific venue for 20,000 fans. TFC's BMO Field, which seats a little more than 20,000, has been sold out for every home game since it opened its gates for the 2007 season - TFC's first.

Seattle has been granted a franchise next year and Philadelphia is expected to join in 2010.

There is already solid interest from five other U.S. venues - Miami, Atlanta, Portland, Ore., St. Louis and a second franchise in New York.

In addition, there are strong claims from two Canadian cities.

Montreal has its own new soccer-specific stadium that seats a little under 14,000, but has been designed for easy expansion to an expected 20,000. Saputo Stadium is the venue for the Montreal Impact, which plays in the United Soccer Leagues First Division, the next professional tier below MLS.

The Vancouver Whitecaps also play in the USL, but are officially chasing an MLS franchise.

Ottawa Citizen

I wonder if this will tie in with the that Ottawa CFL bid and a shared facility with this MLS bid. If that's the case then it wouldn't be a SSS, which is what MLS wants.

With Portland's bid though, it involves sharing a converted PGE baseball park with the University of Portland grid-iron team. Which begs the question why a Portland or even an Ottawa, if they did share a stadium, would have any chance competing against Vancouver or Montreal in the next expansion phase. At any rate, Ottawa and Portland need to have a sound plan together to make an official bid by 15 Oct.

Senators Sports & Entertainment planned stadium in Kanata for a MLS expansion bid. 30k seater, real grass pitch.

http://i37.tinypic.com/rjo31d.jpg

HO-LY SHIT! My jaw literally dropped! :eek:

I must say I have become infatuated.

http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/home.php

That stadium looks awesome. Too many cities trying to get into the MLS though.

Shame my city could have built a stadium and got a team before the MLS became popular. Now, it looks like that will never happen with the interest in Canada and throughout the U.S.

^^ Milwaukee?

^That's what I was thinking. I wonder if Milwaukee is an area that would support footy. It's close to Chicago and could create a nice rivalry.



Well it's Match Day 1 for Concacaf Champions League tonight.

Montreal v Joe Public FC(Trinidad). Stade Saputo, Montreal.

CBC.ca/sports - Live stream 20.00 EST/17.00 PST
Radio-Canada.ca/sports - Live stream
CBC Bold - Live(pay channel)

CBC TV - taped - 24.00 EST/PST
Radio-Canada - taped - 23.45 EST

Well, the game is over and the impact won a convincing victory of 2-nil against Joe Public ( a team that destroyed the New England Revolution of the MLS).

Great win by the boys, and that's one win less that they need to move on!

GO Impact!!!:banana::cheers:

The Impact are on fire! They're going to need all the momentum they can get, because apparently the next two teams are the favourites to move through. I'm guessing the Joe Public vs Revolution game was a one-off, but it goes to show how bad an MLS team can become when missing a few of their starters (hello TFC...).

I've seen the Impact play three games of late now and they've maybe had 6 or 7 good chances total, yet they've won all those games. They get two or three good chances in this game and it's all they need. Hopefully they keep it up.

I'll be cheering for ya Montreal.

^^ Milwaukee?

yeah. We had the pieces in place for a stadium, plenty of potential season ticket holders, and some financing--but the city wasn't very hospitable for helping them get a downtown stadium. Shame, considering we could have a unique non-suburban SSS for a growing league. :ohno:


^That's what I was thinking. I wonder if Milwaukee is an area that would support footy. It's close to Chicago and could create a nice rivalry.

Not to the extent of a city like Toronto or L.A., but it would have been a perfect sport for the city. Cheap tickets and beer--a passionate fanbase would have soon emerged. Especially considering tickets for our beloved Milwaukee Brewers are becoming more scarce.

Well, the game is over and the impact won a convincing victory of 2-nil against Joe Public ( a team that destroyed the New England Revolution of the MLS).

Great win by the boys, and that's one win less that they need to move on!

GO Impact!!!:banana::cheers:

No offense to "Joe Public", but they sound like a team that my high school team should beat.

So whats the deal with the Impact, Ottawa, and Vancouver--and the MLS? There is so much interest in the league, yet they are only going to bring in a few teams?

No offense to "Joe Public", but they sound like a team that my high school team should beat.

So whats the deal with the Impact, Ottawa, and Vancouver--and the MLS? There is so much interest in the league, yet they are only going to bring in a few teams?The game of soccer is growing here. MLS is considered the closest thing to being at a so called big league level, which is funny because its shocking the difference between it and say the EPL. It's a lot closer to the USL Div 1 actually. You can't get a team if you don't put in a bid. I think Canada has a really good shot at getting a team, maybe two.

I doubt we'll ever see the MLS in Ottawa. They couldn't make a CFL team work in that city, why would it work witht he MLS?

Montréal and Vancouver still have a better shot at getting and MLS franchise.

Yea, I wasn't going to comment on the Ottawa proposal, but it's definitely one of the least likely to get a team. And that includes the US proposals.

I doubt we'll ever see the MLS in Ottawa. They couldn't make a CFL team work in that city, why would it work witht he MLS?

Montréal and Vancouver still have a better shot at getting and MLS franchise.

Because MLs is different than CFL. Different league, different sport, different fanbase.

The impact just tied against Atlante nil-nil. Good game by the boys, especially considering that Atlante was supposed to be sooooo much superior! The Impact has been surprising a few teams!!

We're on top of the division standings tied with Atlante!!

Superb considering Atlante is 3rd in Mexico's Primera table.

CBC's finally got the tape delay on now at midnight. I'll probably be out cold by the time the game is over but at least we know they draw.

The impact just tied against Atlante nil-nil. Good game by the boys, especially considering that Atlante was supposed to be sooooo much superior! The Impact has been surprising a few teams!!

We're on top of the division standings tied with Atlante!!

Yeah but Atlante rested most of their starters...

The newly recorded TSN "Hockey Night in Canada" theme! Nicely done:
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Hockey/article/505484

The newly recorded TSN "Hockey Night in Canada" theme! Nicely done:
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Hockey/article/505484

It's just not the same, not being on CBC....and i liked their version better.

The Impact looked pretty shaky in the first 15 minutes, but eventually found the game plan that's been working for them - They're very good at keeping their shape and getting numbers back to defend. I'd bet it'll be a different game the next time they meet. The Mexicans tend to be invincible when they play at home.

I am cheering for them though. If they meet the Whitecaps, that's a different story.

The Impact looked pretty shaky in the first 15 minutes, but eventually found the game plan that's been working for them - They're very good at keeping their shape and getting numbers back to defend. I'd bet it'll be a different game the next time they meet. The Mexicans tend to be invincible when they play at home.

I am cheering for them though. If they meet the Whitecaps, that's a different story.

Agreed! I also believe the game in Mexico will be much harder for the boys... but at least the Impact will not have looked like fools in this Concacaf Champions League. WE've got a good shot at making it through. (the top two teams make it to the next round) and I like our chances! :banana::cheers:

All we have to do is beat Olympia, and we're almost garanteed a spot to the next round!

I must say I have become infatuated.

http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/home.php

Yeah, it looks great, but the problem is the location. It makes no sense whatsoever to stick a stadium way the hell out in Kanata, and I think that more than anything might kill the bid.

I wrote this (http://thefulcrum.ca/node/1733) on the subject.

Strange what a huge difference that some minor tweaking can do. Never liked the original HNIC tune much. Found it very hokey and unsophisticated. The update, I like a great deal though.

The Impact looked pretty shaky in the first 15 minutes, but eventually found the game plan that's been working for them - They're very good at keeping their shape and getting numbers back to defend. I'd bet it'll be a different game the next time they meet. The Mexicans tend to be invincible when they play at home.

I am cheering for them though. If they meet the Whitecaps, that's a different story.

Looks like it's the Impact vs the Whitecaps this week-end! I'll be at Saputo Stadium on Friday for the first of the 2 games. I'll most likely be at one end of the Field with the ULTRA'S (those are the crazy bastards you hear behind the net cheering on the Impact the entire game!)

GO IMPACT!!!

Looks like it's the Impact vs the Whitecaps this week-end! I'll be at Saputo Stadium on Friday for the first of the 2 games. I'll most likely be at one end of the Field with the ULTRA'S (those are the crazy bastards you hear behind the net cheering on the Impact the entire game!)

GO IMPACT!!!Should be good. Hopefully both Montreal and Vancouver's home fields will be in decent shape by game time... Vancouver's was trashed recently by the pointy ball men of SFU. :|

Vancouver's was trashed recently by the pointy ball men of SFU.


Same here with the field at Saputo Stadium. The Impact have played soooooo many games there over the past 6 weeks.

Wow! Montreal are still undefeated! They beat Olimpia 2 - 1 in Honduras on Match Day 3 of Champions League. This put them at the top of the table with three matches to go in Group play.

Atlante(1W 1 D) are second in the table followed by Olimpia(1 W 2 L) and then Joe Public(2 L).

Montreal play on 8 Oct at Joe Public.
21 Oct v Olimpia at Montreal.
28 Oct v Atlante at Mexico.

Should be good. Hopefully both Montreal and Vancouver's home fields will be in decent shape by game time... Vancouver's was trashed recently by the pointy ball men of SFU. :|

The Clan Football team play where the Whitecaps play?

Wow! Montreal are still undefeated! They beat Olimpia 2 - 1 in Honduras on Match Day 3 of Champions League. This put them at the top of the table with three matches to go in Group play.

Atlante(1W 1 D) are second in the table followed by Olimpia(1 W 2 L) and then Joe Public(2 L).

Montreal play on 8 Oct at Joe Public.
21 Oct v Olimpia at Montreal.
28 Oct v Atlante at Mexico.

After having watched my Habs beat up on the poor Pooh-Bears last night, I had to watch the soccer game on the internet, in front of my computer, cause Radio-Can doesn't show the games LIVE. I was glued the whole game, and I must say that the Impact are really starting to make a name for themselves!! One more win, and they can move on to the next round. That win should come next week vs. Joe Public, who are clearly the worst team of the 4 in group C.:banana::cheers:

I waited for the tape delay at midnight and then stupidly fell asleep and forgot to tape it, so I didn't get the result til this morning. I thought for sure it would be a draw.

So all they need is one more win to clinch?

I posted this is the international section, but knew Canadians would take great interest in this as well:

Oldest baseball stadium in the world would be Labatt Park, in London, Ontario, Canada. The diamond opened in 1877 at the forks of the Thames River as Tecumseh Park. The distinction of world's oldest used to belong to a US stadium, but the Guiness Book of Records now says the London ballpark is older.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/24/49749567_d6f621eb68.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/24/49749567_d6f621eb68.jpg?v=0

Oldest North American football stadium would be Varsity Stadium at the University of Toronto. It opened in 1898, a full 37 years after the world's first documented football match was played at University College, University of Toronto on November 9, 1861. The original structure was replaced by a newer structure in 1924. This second structure was replaced by the current structure built in 2007.

26th Grey Cup played on December 10, 1938 at Varsity Stadium, Toronto.
Toronto Argonauts 30, Winnipeg Blue Bombers 7
http://torontoist.com/attachments/toronto_kevinp/2007_11_201938.jpg
http://torontoist.com/attachments/toronto_kevinp/2007_11_201938.jpg

What it looks like now:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2298/2502317484_4185f2a60d.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2298/2502317484_4185f2a60d.jpg?v=0

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2205/2148681161_ea0dbba9f6.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2205/2148681161_ea0dbba9f6.jpg?v=0

Oldest Hockey arena was one built in Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada in 1870. It burnt to the ground in 1897. The oldest hockey arena still standing in Canada is the Galt Arena Gardens in Cambridge, Ontario which was built in 1922. The oldest still standing in the world is Mathews Arena in the USA which was built in 1910.

I couldn't find an image of Windsor's original arena, but here's one of Galt Arena Gardens.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3189/2869063088_f42c26a150.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3189/2869063088_f42c26a150.jpg?v=0

The Clan Football team play where the Whitecaps play?Yes unfortunately. The city of Burnaby runs Swangard Stadium, the Whitecaps are basically a tenant renting it out. It's a bit odd for the Clan to play at Swangard - it's not like they have huge crowds at their games. This is all more reason for the Whitecaps to get their own stadium.

*sigh* I will admit, MTL beating Olimpia in Honduras is pretty damn impressive.

What makes me proud is that they have never beaten TFC.

I waited for the tape delay at midnight and then stupidly fell asleep and forgot to tape it, so I didn't get the result til this morning. I thought for sure it would be a draw.

So all they need is one more win to clinch?

Pretty much. If they win next Wednesday against Joe Public, they will have 10 points, which will be enough to make it to the next round!:banana:

I've been meaning to post this for a few weeks, so now is a good time. I found it very interesting! From the National Post. Link:
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=776096




Experts find new piece of hockey history

Birthplace Battle; British officer's memoir contains description of 1839 game

Randy Boswell, Canwest News Service Published: Monday, September 08, 2008
Related Topics
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/dawnd_01/Autumn%202007/winter%202007/Summer%202008/New%20Summer%202008/An1839paintingbyColRichardLevignesh.jpg
An 1839 painting by Col. Richard Levigne shows members of the 43rd Light Infantry enjoying a sleighing trip to Niagara Falls.


An 1839 painting by Col. Richard Levigne shows members of the 43rd Light Infantry enjoying a sleighing trip to Niagara Falls.Canwest News ServiceAn 1839 painting by Col. Richard Levigne shows members of the 43rd Light Infantry enjoying a sleighing trip to Niagara Falls.

As millions of Canadians sharpen their skates and otherwise prepare for a new season of the country's favourite game, hockey historians are celebrating the discovery of a document hailed as a missing link in the early evolution of the sport.

Two Swedish researchers have unearthed the second-oldest written reference ever found to hockey being played on ice, a vintage description of an 1839 game contested on a frozen river in Southern Ontario near Niagara Falls.

The discovery by European historians of new Canadian evidence of hockey's roots highlights the growing global interest in the sport's origins, which have been hotly debated for years as scholars try to trace the convergence, beginning about 200 years ago, of ice skating and various stick-and-ball games in Europe and North America.

The latest find comes from a British army officer's memoir of his years in what was then the colony of Upper Canada, where soldiers from England were known to pass the long winter months skating, sledding and otherwise embracing the sporting virtues of Canada's bone-chilling climate.

"During the winter, the skating on Chippewa Creek was excellent and added not a little to our amusement," writes Colonel Richard Levigne, referring to the present-day Welland River on the Niagara Peninsula between lakes Erie and Ontario.

"Large parties contested games of hockey on ice, some 40 or 50 being ranged on each side."

Levigne's description is the earliest known reference to hockey being played anywhere in southern Canada, where Halifax, Montreal and Windsor, N. S., have all long battled for the right to be called the sport's "birthplace."

But the 2003 discovery of an 1825 reference to ice hockey and skating -- found in a journal and letter of famed Arctic explorer Sir John Franklin -- added the tiny community of Deline, N. W. T., to the list of contenders. Franklin's description of his men playing hockey on a small lake near the fort, where British and Canadian members of his northwest expedition wintered that year, remains the oldest known document in the sport's history.

The latest find reinforces the key role played by British soldiers in the game's development in early 19th-century Canada, says Kingston, Ont., hockey historian Bill Fitsell.

It also becomes the earliest known description of black Canadians playing the game since Levigne goes on to describe the "ludicrous" scene of members of a "negro" military unit lacing on skates and apparently giving the game a go.

"A ludicrous scene, too, was afforded by the instruction of a black corps in skating: from the peculiar formation of a negro's foot, and the length of his heel, they were constantly falling forward; it was impossible to keep them on their skates, and down they came in whole sections," Levigne writes.

"They might have done admirably on snowshoes, but it was lamentable to witness the dreadful 'headers' they suffered from the skates."

The discovery was made in July by Swedish researchers Carl Giden and Pat Houda, members of the Canadianbased Society for International Hockey Research.

Combing through a digitized, Google Books version of Levigne's memoir -- The Echoes From the Backwood; Or Sketches Of Transatlantic Life -- the two researchers found what the SIHR has declared "another piece of the jigsaw puzzle that links field hockey played by British soldiers and the development of the Canadian ice game."

^^Very interesting. I know the folks down in Windsor won't like it, but this document can't be ignored. I'm quite surprised that so much of our history is only now being researched, documented, or deemed important.

Too late to save Varsity Stadium. That's one that should have been given a heritage distinction. It wasn't as large as Maple Leaf Gardens, but certainly as historically significant. It's where football started. I'm surprised the Americans didn't fight to save it. To add insult to injury they tore down a 20,000 seater to build a 5,000 seater?

Yes unfortunately. The city of Burnaby runs Swangard Stadium, the Whitecaps are basically a tenant renting it out. It's a bit odd for the Clan to play at Swangard - it's not like they have huge crowds at their games. This is all more reason for the Whitecaps to get their own stadium.

I would have thought they definitely would have played at their campus field. What's the capacity of Swangard?

What's the capacity of Swangard?About 5300 seats.

Well, looks like our boys ran out of gas against the Whitecaps yesterday in Vancouver! It was kinda inevitable. The Impact have played something like 14 games in 5 yeeks(almost 3 games per week).

Kudoes to the whitecaps, hope you beat up on the Islanders in the final.

At least we still have the champions League!

Canada axed from F1 Calendar!!!

The Canadian Grand Prix has been dropped from the 2009 Formula One calendar and replaced with the inaugural race in Abu Dhabi.

The International Automobile Federation (FIA) issued a revised calendar with Turkey moving from August to 7 June to allow a summer break for the teams.

There will be no North American round after the US Grand Prix at Indianapolis was dropped this year.

The new 18-race season will begin on 29 March in Melbourne.

The Belgian Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps has moved forward from September to 30 August, the weekend after the European Grand Prix in Valencia.

The Italian Grand Prix has switched back a week to take Belgium's original 13 September date.

It's all over the news but here is a link - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7657014.stm


I have to calm down. I am completely outraged at this. Unbelievable! Those FIA bastards didn't even tell Montreal organisers the race was cancelled, they had to learn through the media! They even had an agreement until 2011. Bernie and Max need to be stopped they are ruining our sport.

North and South America only have 1 race now???!!!!! Argentina, gone. Mexico, gone. USA, gone. Canada, gone. Brazil, you are next.

They've replaced Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, which was one of the biggest viewerships in the world, with one of the highest attendances, where drivers love the circuit and it's a very popular stop on the calendar for the F1 circus.

All this for another desert race, which is 200 miles from the other desert race.

Suzuka, gone. Imola, gone. Hockenheim, destroyed. Silverstone, gone and after 2010 the British GP will be gone more than likely since Bernie and Max can cancel any GP whenever they want.

That leaves us with TWO races in Spain, one of which is the new Valencia street circuit, BORING. New street race in Singapore, BORING. And Hungary, well Bernie has monetary stakes in the track so that isn't going anywhere. With South Korea and India being eventually added this is has now become the Eur-Asia Formula 1, not the World Championship.

The extortion has to end, every year its the same bullshit story with the F1.

They threaten Montreal, and the promoter, mayor and governments have to kneel and dump more cash and favors in the pockets of those clowns.

Seriously, this is the most watched F1 race in the world, i believe also the one that sells the most tickets and a favourite among drivers... what more do they want?

They want more and more money from emerging markets. I guess they think they can turn-on new fans with these markets but what they're doing is completely alienating their traditional markets in Europe and the Americas, markets that built F1 into what it is.

One race now between Greenwich Meantime and Melbourne going west?! What is that, 13 time zones! I don't see how this is a World Championship. And that 1 race now is Brazil, which is a huge cost to do one flyaway race, just like they say Canada was. Brazil surely are the next to be axed and therefore ignoring and putting the last nail in the coffin with the 800m person market of the Americas. How on Earth can they have a F1 World Championship without the Americas??

When BernMax gamble and realise after they got rid of the British GP(which is heavily thought as being axed eventually), Australian, the French, Brazil, and add Korea, India, and Russia and those venues don't add new fans, they'll come crawling back to their traditional markets. Hopefully we'll have moved on since then with a whole new breakaway series.

I have to calm down. I am completely outraged at this. Unbelievable!

You're not alone! This pisses me off! But what can we do?

I hope that our Mayor and Normand Legault(the guy who organizes the GP F1 of Canada) can pull another rabbit out of their hats(like they did 2004 after the Montreal race was cancelled because of the removal of tobacco adds) but I fear this time will be much harder.

What's even more frustrating is that the organizers (along with the fed gov't, the Prov gov't, the municipal gov't and Normand Legault) had invested 5 million$ to redo the paddocks as well as the media room last year!

I hope Ecclstone dies of a heart attack!

I get the feeling this is just another tactic by Ecclestone "the thief" to extort more money out of us! Apparently the F1 schedule is not written in stone, and is not finalized before the month of december. I find it funny that this announcement comes out just one week before the Canadian federal elections!!!:ohno:

Guess who just came out saying that they'd do everything they could to save the GP? The Conservatives!!(along with the Provincial Liberals as well as the city if Montreal)

God, they'd cry bloody murder if they axed the British Grand Prix. They really need to treat their fan base much better than they are. No Canadian Grand Prix is shocking. They better re-instate this race, and it better go back to Montreal. The race belongs there.

God, they'd cry bloody murder if they axed the British Grand Prix.

Actually, if i'm not mistaken, as of 2010, the British GP is no longer assured. For what reason i'm not too sure, but I've heard this on a couple of occasions.

I get the feeling this is just another tactic by Ecclestone "the thief" to extort more money out of us! Apparently the F1 schedule is not written in stone, and is not finalized before the month of december. I find it funny that this announcement comes out just one week before the Canadian federal elections!!!:ohno:

Guess who just came out saying that they'd do everything they could to save the GP? The Conservatives!!(along with the Provincial Liberals as well as the city if Montreal)

Totally agreed. No surprise to have Harper offering money during an election, either.

Ya, Donington have 2 years to bring their track up to standards and they were waiting for approval from the county council, which has been given the go ahead, I think. Lot's of local political stuff in the way so it seems strange why Bernie would grant Donington a 10 year contract and threaten them it has to be done by 2010, and at the same time tell Silverstone, who had a master redevelopment plan, to piss off. I don't get it but Sir Frank and others have said they will be surprised if Donington is done by 2010. If it isn't then there won't be a British GP it seems. For how long, who knows.

I don't think western countries, especially Canada, can compete with these emerging markets in Asia who are willing to put billions into hosting an F1 race. Bernie wants to be back in NA eventually but I think Canada would have to put in hundreds of millions to redevelop or the only race we're going to see in NA is in Las Vegas, where Bernie has hinted at going.

Bernie the ferret today - "It's a technical problem with the contract,'' Ecclestone said in a phone interview, declining to give details. "Next year, we'll lose it for sure.''

"It's disappointing not to have a race in North America", Ecclestone said. "If we could be there again in the future, we'd like to be. We'll get it sorted out.''

Bernie the ferret today - "It's a technical problem with the contract,'' Ecclestone said in a phone interview, declining to give details. "Next year, we'll lose it for sure.''

"It's disappointing not to have a race in North America", Ecclestone said. "If we could be there again in the future, we'd like to be. We'll get it sorted out.''


fvcking rat bastard! I hope he dies a slow excruciatingly painful death!:mad::bleep: Die Bernie, Die!

Anyone watching the Montreal match right now on the CBC site? I decided to watch the feed instead of the repeat later 'cause I fell asleep last week:nuts:

OMG...I don't want to give away the score....damn exciting though! Action packed and only 12 minutes in.

Started watching with 5 minutes left in the first half. Damn I missed a lot.

I'm trying to find the score of the Atlante match with no luck. Montreal is through to the Quarters if Atlante and they win.

The Olimpia v Atlante match is on live streamed at the link if anyone is interested.

http://sk.justin.tv/psn_2

Atlante are up 1 in the second half with 30mins to go. Apparently the goalkeeper scored.

Thanks! Gotta love the play by play. 1-1 now.

fvcking rat bastard! I hope he dies a slow excruciatingly painful death!:mad::bleep: Die Bernie, Die!

To be honest, the Grand Prix is a rich man's game. There is no longer even an American Grand Prix,
or any other North American race. At least when there was, Montreal could split the cost of bringing over all those cars with the American race. As it is, profit is eroded by this massive expense. At what cost do governments want to subsidize this professional sport? Abu Dhabi has money coming out of its ying yang.

These places like Abu Dhabi have too much money to compete with. They can build these cookie cutter circuits - $350 million, like it's nothing. But they have no soul. Montreal, Silverstone, Imola, and others have history that is being tossed in the bin. There is some news today though that looks promising, hopefully.


F1 teams working to reinstate Canada


Although there are suspicions that F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone could be using the Canadian GP situation to improve the financial terms of holding the event, both from the promoters and the teams, there is genuine concern in the paddock about the impact of losing the race from the schedule.

Honda Racing CEO Nick Fry told autosport.com: "I don't think it is a short-term problem, but it is a problem that does need to be addressed. We are a global series and not to be performing in one of the major continents is a serious problem - even more so because it is a continent that is very important for the motor manufacturers who are involved in F1.

"We need to look at the north American continent situation from a more strategic point of view and work out how we increase our popularity. I don't think you can just look at one race – you have to look at the whole situation there and put together a package which increases our appeal in North America. Then, the financial problems we have appearing at just one race in the continent, will go away."

BMW motorsport director Mario Theissen added: "I haven't got any explanation of the decision and how it came about, so I think we will discuss it."

The decision to drop Canada and hand its June 7 date to Turkey was prompted by the teams' desire to have a summer break inserted into next year's calendar.

It is understood that one solution being looked at now is for Canada to return to its original date, and the Turkey event to then switch to early August, just one week after the Hungarian GP.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71237

just watched the live press conference, bernie is not opposed to the idea of having F1 in Montreal next year... the mayor will meet him in the coming days/weeks to settle this down.

It looks like Legault dropped the ball, but the GP F1 team in Montreal is still intact and most probably will manage the race in the coming years with govt. funds.

I'm feeling a bit more confident. I don't see what the problem would be for taxpayers if there is economic benefit.

Government support dependent on economic benefits

The government would have to pick up the tab for the race to return to Montreal, he said. (Paul Wilson vice-president of marketing for Grand Prix F1 Canada). "Amongst the 18 Grands Prix across the world, 17 of them are owned and operated partially or totally by governments," he said.

Ville Marie Mayor Benoît Labonté echoed Wilson's call on Thursday. "The City of Montreal, the government of Quebec, as well as the government of Canada, should get together to make sure we can put together an offer," he said.

Premier Jean Charest said on Thursday any intervention by the Quebec government to save the Canadian Grand Prix would be conditional on taxpayers seeing economic benefits. Speaking in Quebec City, Charest stressed economic considerations have guided past efforts by the province to keep the F1 race in Montreal.

Quebec's economic development minister is meeting later Thursday with organizers to try to find out why the Montreal race was dropped from the 2009 calendar, said Charest.

The race draws an estimated $100 million per year in revenues and economic spinoffs to the city.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2008/10/09/mtl-grandprix.html

The Olimpia v Atlante match is on live streamed at the link if anyone is interested.

http://sk.justin.tv/psn_2

Atlante are up 1 in the second half with 30mins to go. Apparently the goalkeeper scored.

Geez Overground, I can't believe that Impact have made it this far. I followed the game on CBC yet couldn't quite make the connection between the current team and the team that I watched early in the season. I don't know what will be in store in the next round (I'm relatively new to soccer.. I LOVE the sport!) but... GO IMPACT GO!

Bernie is a dick. He's ruining F 1. If it were up to him, he would have 9 races in the desert and 9 races in China (or some combination thereof) on really boring tracks with half-filled stands and no avant or après race ambiance. I feel sorry for our promoter here but he is right when he says that this is no longer something that a private business can handle. Formula 1 is all about money now and with countries pouring millions into hosting races we have to make a decision: do we want a Canadian Grand Prix or not. If the answer is yes, then all 3 levels of government will have to kick in. If the answer is no, then we lose the national prestige and the economic benefits that such an event accrues.

The race here is one of the most popular with fans and drivers alike. It's one of the few remaining road races, the stands are packed with 330,000 passionate fans each year, and a huge section of downtown is turned into an open street party for 4 days. We've done our part, but we apparently only pay 12 million dollars wheras Dubai is willing to pay 50 million. Bernie doesn't care about the fans or the sport, he only cares about the 38 million differential. If Antarctica were willing to host a race for 60 million, Bernie would go there instead of Dubai.

I think that there is hope. The manufaturers and sponsors are surely not happy to lose their only North American exposure. The city and the province will find some extra cash, and the feds might even think that the international cachet of a Canadian Grand Prix is worth a few bucks. For Harper though, a name-change to 'Canadian Christian Grand Prix and Rodeo for Christ' may be in order. Sponsored by Exxon of course!

Btw we pay 18m$ and we have to pay all the shipping fees for the platform, since there's no one else to share it with since the USGP is no more.

Geez Overground, I can't believe that Impact have made it this far. I followed the game on CBC yet couldn't quite make the connection between the current team and the team that I watched early in the season. I don't know what will be in store in the next round (I'm relatively new to soccer.. I LOVE the sport!) but... GO IMPACT GO!

Blown away how well they're doing and how many matches they've played in the last month. Amazing! Touch wood, but the Impact need to at least draw in their last two matches or have Atlante win one, so they can advance. Exciting!

With F1, the teams are voicing their opinion about getting Canada back on the schedule. Their desire is to be in NA but I think we all know that the USA is the target but at least they acknowledge that Canada is necessary in that process.


Friday Press Conference at Fuji Speedway

Mario THEISSEN (BMW SAUBER) - The second question first: obviously we are not happy about not being in North America. The US is the most important and biggest car market for BMW and I think for the industry as a whole. It has always been difficult to set foot into the US but Canada has always been a very strong Formula One supporter and the race in Montreal.

I have seen the race in Montreal as an operational base to get a second race up and running in the US, and so we would, rather than drop the Canada race, use it or expand the operations in North America to have a Canadian plus at least one US race. The other question? Financial crisis, economical crisis world-wide.

Well, the answer is simple. Formula One is of this world and so Formula One will be affected as other industries are affected, as all the sponsors are affected. Basically every stakeholder in Formula One is affected and so we have to deal with it like any other operation.

Nick FRY (Honda) - On Canada, we are hugely disappointed – it's difficult to emphasise by how much. Honda is very successful in Canada, we make cars there, the local company there is hugely enthusiastic about Formula One. We have large numbers of guests from America and from Canada. We sponsor the event, we would like to see it back on the calendar as soon as possible and I support John's comments that I think it will be a major topic of conversation among the teams at the next meeting of the teams.

I think we need to look at North America on a more strategic basis. As soon as we were down to one race on the continent, things inevitably were going to get difficult because the costs of transportation and appearing just once across the other side of the Atlantic were huge and I think really we need to look at how we're not just going to get back Canada but how we get back to America, potentially more than once, as it is such an important market.

John HOWETT (Toyota) - Canada? We are sad because it's a great race, we like to go there. I think one of the targets of FOTA(Formula One Team is to actually ask the commercial rights holder to really establish a strong foothold in North America, particularly the US, with a race which showcases Formula One well, and is, if you like, economically beneficial to Formula One as a whole.

So I think this is one of the core discussions FOTA wishes to have because it is a very important market for our sponsors and for Formula One and hopefully in the next one to two years we can establish a proper race in the United States which is good for all of us.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71281

It is footy mania today, if you're a fan of the sport.

- Canada is playing in Honduras for an imperative win in World Cup Qualifying. It says the match is on Sportsnet West at 6.30pm. I have no idea as their website is so crappy and confusing, ironically that's exactly how the CSA is.

- (EDIT-the match is Sunday) Vancouver is playing Puerto Rico for the USL Championship in Van. If they win then it will be their 3rd major win in 34 years. Albeit, two of them are USL second division wins and the main one of course being the NASL 1979 championship. 4pm pst(Fox Soccer Channel). Probably streamed on the net on justintv.

- Toronto FC is playing today at FC Dallas for a much needed win to hopefully make the playoffs. CBC Bold, cbcsports.ca(streamed live) 8.30pm est. CBC TV(tape delay) at 1.30am est.

The good news for me today is earlier my England obliterated Kazakhstan 5 -1 at Wembley to remain top of their group for WC Qualifying:banana:

Big International Cricket matches all weekend in King City, close to Toronto. Avid Cricket fan friends of mine are going. It is first class cricket, and tickets are $40, but apparently well worth it.

^^ worth it... for the off-field activity? Free tea and biscuits?

Cricket Canada even know what it is? I've been to State games in WA which draw bigger crowds and more press coverage than any International game in Canada. Might as well stick to what Canada does well in, like hockey.

So we should just play hockey? Good grief. Do you think Americans were always good at football? No, we introduced the game to them, and then they practiced.

Sticking to one thing because we aren't as good at other things is ridiculous and defeatist. How are we supposed to get better at other things if we don't try? The Chinese couldn't put an airplane together 100 years ago, now they're sending their own astronauts into space in their own rockets. I don't think Canadians are content to stay sitting in some hole.

Cricket Canada even know what it is? I've been to State games in WA which draw bigger crowds and more press coverage than any International game in Canada. Might as well stick to what Canada does well in, like hockey.


Here is some information on the cricket match. Have a look, as you might learn something:
http://www.canadiancricket.org/

Canada is a BIG country, with a diverse population. There room for more than just Hockey.

I haven't been keeping up lately. Anyway, the Al-Barakah T20 Canada Cup is the biggest thing to happen for cricket in Canada. T20 cricket for those that don't know, is the new short form of the game played in 2.5 hours. So this Al-Barakah real estate group from Dubai will be organising this for the next 5 years. Check this out, this is huge news for the sport in Canada now!


Five year contract to organise T20 tournaments in Canada

TORONTO, Oct 12 2008- The organsiers of Toronto T-20 cricket tournament has signed a five year contract with Cricket Canada (CC) to organise high profile cricket tournaments here in summer season.

“It is a step forward to promote cricket in Canada and we will be having such cricket events in which world best teams including Pakistan, India, South Africa or other teams are playing depending on their availability “,said Imran Khan[<<edit<<<former superstar], Chief Executive Officer, Dubai based Al-Barakah Properties at a news conference on Sunday along with Nauman Nabi Ahmad, Chairman, Sports Marketing International (SIM) here on Sunday.

Imran Khan said Canada has a good potential of development of cricket and in recent years cricket has taken tremendous boost here with the holding of international matches among teams like West Indies, Bermuda and Canada.

“After five regular editions of Twenty20 cricket tournament cricket will be at its peak here in North America and we just don’t want to restrict the span of our activities here, we have some plans in pipe line to have similar events in other parts of the world including Dubai and America “,he asserted.

CEO of Al-Barakah said it is a matter of pride that two former world champions Pak and Lanka are playing in a T20 tournament and people are taking keen interest in it despite that fact that it is being played in the beginning of winters.

“International Cricket Council (ICC) has approved our future activity plan and we are in hands with hands with (Cricket Canada) to promote cricket here under a long term plan through such events," he added.

“From May till August we have ideal weather for international cricket tournaments and we will be organising our events in these months to attract crowd from all over the world", he said.

He said former chairman of Pakistan Cricket Board, Dr Nasim Ashraf conceived the idea of having this tournament in Canada and they are thankful to him and the PCB for their endeavour to help promote cricket in Canada.

“Changes take place every where in every cricket board and we look to similar cooperation to PCB to guide us in the development of cricket," he said.

Imran Khan said the presence of Pakistan cricket team is a big encouragement for (CC) and he anticipates a better future of the game in North America. “ Its not only Canada , cricket is being liked and loved in America as well and we will like to organise T20 tournaments in different parts of America in future “.

Nauman Nabi Ahmad speaking on the occasion said efforts would be made to built a permanent stadium in Toronto as make shift stadium are difficult to erect and hopefully in next few years a stadium catering the needs of spectators and modern day cricket will be built to have a platform for the holding of international competitions.

“We were just handed over a ground and we created all necessary ICC approved facilities to turn this dream into reality and today we are watching thrilling cricket here “,he said.

Tourney website - http://www.t20canada.com

I wonder why nobody is talking about the massacre that happened at the ACC last night???:):banana::poke::okay:;);)

I'm guessing the Habs destroyed the Leafs.

:'(

Why do I even bother....

Whitecaps win the USL Championship! Oddly, there is no mention of it on the CBC Sports site. Plenty coverage of TFC's game with Dallas though.

Overground, thanks for posting that article about the cricket contract.. I will tell my friends about it! :)


I wonder why nobody is talking about the massacre that happened at the ACC last night???:):banana::poke::okay:;);)

One game does not a Stanley Cup make! ;)

The Hab has a history for being quite superior at the beginning of the season and often kind of falter later on I don't know why they almost gave me a heart attack sometimes , but always a good feeling to know they are winning

Whitecaps win the USL Championship!

Congrats to the whitecaps, they deserve it!

One game does not a Stanley Cup make!

True! The Habs will have a better test tonight against the Flyers and wednesday against the Pooh-Bears. The Leafs aren't that good this year. Let's not kid ourselves, beating the leafs this year isn't gonna be very hard. However, if the Leafs' management keeps drafting well for the next couple of years,(ie: picking up good young guys like Luke Schenn) they'll be a much better team in 3 years! Growing pains!

But a game won at the beginning of the year can make a BIG difference in the final standings!
Uggh.. the Leafs did get skunked. Oh well, a young team and hopefully they will find their stride! :cheers:

Well, Toronto has hundreds of hockey teams. That so many care about the fortunes of one, to the exclusion of the rest, tells me that these people aren't hockey fans; they are Leafs fans.

How about supporting some of the other hockey teams in this city? If it's actually the game of hockey that is loved, it won't matter that much if the level of skill is lower. At least these other teams are accessible, the players are people we can relate to, they come from our own cities and towns, they live down the street from us, and they compete against a myriad of other teams from our country.

The Leafs? They compete in a US league with only 5 other Canadian opponents, and a quarter of the people in the stands are too busy making a business deal or chowing down on a hot dog to care about what's happening on the ice. How about St. Mike's? They have a great team. What about York? U of T? They offer affordable entertainment, and you're not emptying your wallet so that they can head to the Maserati dealership after the game.

It's no wonder college sports are growing by leaps and bounds. Most pro sports have just become an absurd proposition. MLS and the CFL are still fan oriented at least.

Here is some information on the cricket match. Have a look, as you might learn something:
http://www.canadiancricket.org/

Canada is a BIG country, with a diverse population. There room for more than just Hockey.

Well how many cricket matches have you seen, on tv or live? Any 20/20, 1 day, tests?

Seen quite a few down here in Australia. Yet outside of Southern Ontario can you find anyone who has actually seen a match?

Cricket matches aren't shown on main tv stations anywhere in Canada that I know, yet. They used to by the way. But that doesn't mean people aren't watching them on satellite or the internet. Ask a South Asian or Caribbean immigrant, including their kids, if they watch cricket and you won't be surprised to hear that they watch it by those means. I watch most England matches via internet tv in fact.

The sport is growing fast in Canada. Just look to how many schools in the TO area are now offering it to students.

- Scotiabank is the Official sponsor Cricket Canada.
- A cricket stadium is planned in Toronto in the next few years. Pakistan, India and Sri Lanka have well received this idea and put in their collective efforts to make it happen so they will play their summer ties in Toronto.
- 700 clubs in Canada.
- 70,000 players.
- Sri Lanka Cricket has officially adopted Canada Cricket team which gives SL the responsibility of nurturing the Canadian side to a higher international level.
- Canada has qualified for the last 2 World Cups.
- Ranked 14th in the World. 4 behind the 10 Test countries.

I used to play it as a kid, at least for a couple summers. I thought the practices were more enjoyable - much more ball time. The games took up too much of the day and we'd often end it after 2 or 3 hours no matter where the last batting team was.

Srsly guyz, i can has World Cup Qualifying Team now?

Please...:cry:

Well how many cricket matches have you seen, on tv or live? Any 20/20, 1 day, tests?

Seen quite a few down here in Australia. Yet outside of Southern Ontario can you find anyone who has actually seen a match?

How many hockey games do you see when you are in Australia? No one said Cricket was as popular in Canada as it is in Australia. It isn't. No one said Cricket is as popular in Saskatchewan as it is in Toronto. It isn't. I see kids playing cricket every day when I walk my dogs past Jarvis Collegiate. Like I said, Canada is a big country, and it is not homogenously identical from sea to shining sea. It is just one more of lots of sports being played. You dismiss it because it is not part of your personal Canadian experience, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Fort Erie officials team with Kuwaiti bank in plans for NASCAR track

By Stephen Watson
Updated: 10/14/08 2:40 PM

A Kuwaiti investment bank is leading a group that plans to spend $200 million (Canadian) to build a NASCAR-ready race track and entertainment complex in Fort Erie, Canadian officials announced today.

The consortium from the Middle East and Canada says it will build the 65,000-seat facility on a 623-acre parcel it has purchased just off the Queen Elizabeth Way in Fort Erie.

Investors and local officials say the racing complex will attract new visitors to Ontario, creating 1,200 jobs and generating $34 million (Canadian) in new tax revenue, according to a news release from Bayt Al Mal Investments, the Kuwaiti Islamic investment bank.

"The region will receive a huge shot in the arm through increased economic development and tourism," Peter Partington, the Niagara regional chairman, equivalent to the Erie County executive, said in a statement today issued prior to a news conference in Fort Erie.

The investment group is building the track to the specifications required to host a NASCAR race, and investors hope to persuade NASCAR's governing body to bring a Sprint Cup Series race to the track. NASCAR officials have said in the past that they want to hold a top-tier race in Canada.

About 1,200 people would be hired to build the track, located less than four miles from the border with New York. Another 120 full-time employees would operate the facility.

The complex could be expanded from 65,000 to 100,000 seats, and it will contain both a one-mile oval track and a 2•-mile road course.

Fort Erie Mayor Douglas Martin has been working with Bayt Al Mal for the past 18 months. The other partners in the investment group were not identified.

Martin and economic development officials from the region and the province were in Dubai last week meeting with members of the investment group in an effort to close a deal.

Local officials say the investment in the motor-speedway complex will be the first of many linking Ontario to the Middle East.

"Bayt Al Mal did their homework, recognized Ontario's tremendous potential and made a wise decision to invest here," said Sandra Pupatello, Ontario's minister for international trade and investment.

I wonder why nobody is talking about the massacre that happened at the ACC last night???:):banana::poke::okay:;);)

It's so embarrasing to see Leafs banners when you're watching the Raptors destroy the Nets or 76ers. Why can't cbc replace their national leafs airtime and replace it TO's favorite game? Why dosen't the NHL do Toronto a big favour and move?? :bash:

The sport is growing fast in Canada. Just look to how many schools in the TO area are now offering it to students.

- Scotiabank is the Official sponsor Cricket Canada.
- A cricket stadium is planned in Toronto in the next few years. Pakistan, India and Sri Lanka have well received this idea and put in their collective efforts to make it happen so they will play their summer ties in Toronto.
- 700 clubs in Canada.
- 70,000 players.
- Sri Lanka Cricket has officially adopted Canada Cricket team which gives SL the responsibility of nurturing the Canadian side to a higher international level.
- Canada has qualified for the last 2 World Cups.
- Ranked 14th in the World. 4 behind the 10 Test countries.

I've never been a fan of cricket, but recognize its importance to a great number of Canadians. It would be a massive accomplishment to get a cricket stadium built in Toronto. An equally massive accomplishment is the #14 ranking of the national team. Despite the growth trend, cricket is still a fringe sport, so it makes Canada's ranking all the more impressive.

A broadening of the sports options and their continued development is good for all of us whether we ourselves are fans or not.

^^
"An equally massive accomplishment is the #14 ranking of the national team. Despite the growth trend, cricket is still a fringe sport, so it makes Canada's ranking all the more impressive."

Same goes for mens field hockey. The pool of players in Canada is relatively few. I think most of them are here in BC. Yet the national team competes with the best. I have no idea what their ranking is though.

A new stadium for Ottawa? Yesterday, a proposal for a redeveloped Lansdowne Park was released by local sports magnate Jeff Hunt as part of a conditional bid for a new Canadian Football League team in the nation's capital.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/siteplan_large.jpg

The plan would include:

* A refurbished\rebuilt Frank Clair Stadium, with a capacity for 25,000 fans, and suitable for both CFL football and soccer
* A refurbished Civic Centre, presumably with about the same capacity as it currently has (just south of 10,000), suitable for OHL hockey and concerts.
* An outdoor amiptheatre for musical and theatrical acts, with a capacity of 2,000.
* A retail park and central promenade, with restaurants and shops lining the areas along Bank and Holmwood. Dome residential development would be involved as well.
* Community soccer, baseball and football fields.
* A walk-through aquarium inside the Aberdeen Pavilion.
* Significantly reduced surface parking, and overall, a much more pedestrian friendly area.
* A specially designated space for the Ottawa Farmer’s Market, allowing it to continue on in the Glebe.

Frankly, I think this is fantastic news, and I really hope the proposal goes through. Ottawa is desperately in need of a centrally-located world class stadium, and this could fill that gap perfectly. Here are some more renders:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/aerial_large.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/stadiumaerial_large.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/retail_large.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/stadiumfield_large.jpg

More information can be found at the proposal's official website, here (http://www.lansdownelive.ca/index.asp).

I've been waiting, giddy with anticipation, for this announcement for such a long time. This is much better than the Kanata option. Football and soccer need to be downtown, they need to be together, and they need to be at Lansdowne Park. Is it the south deck that will be demolished to build the 2 deck stands depicted above? What is the capacity of each of the decks in this new south stand? The north stands are currently one large deck and will be kept?

Fantastic news for the capital. The ownership group seems solid and the plans look great. If they follow the Montreal Alouettes model, pro football will prosper in Ottawa again. I was expecting a 30,000 to 40,000 seater, but this is fine. Is this stadium easily expandable to 50,000+ so Ottawa can host a Grey Cup? I hope so. Besides, there are twice as many people in Ottawa as there are in Hamilton or Winnipeg. They draw 22,000 and 27,000 respectively. Ottawa should be able to draw 44,000 to 54,000 people in the not to distant future if they play their cards right.

Just don't call them the Rough Riders. Keep the exact same uniforms Ottawa had in the 1970's and early 1980's. The stylized 'R' is classic, those black uniforms with red and white accents look great, and taken together they will connect fans with Ottawa's storied and glorious football past. Just change the 'R' to something else. Rams? That's a great football nickname commonly used in high schools and universities. I never warmed up to the name Renegades. Their uniforms and logo looked awful too. Go with something clean and classic.

Hope this happens, and Winnipeg gets booted back to the Western Conference where they belong. Now it's your turn Quebec City! A 10 team league is where we need to be for the 100th Grey Cup in 2012. Maybe we'll be treated to a 12 team league by then.

Thanks for posting. Very exciting news! :cheer:

^^

No problem! It's a fantastic looking proposal, and after attending a game at Frank Clair today, I can't wait to see the site improved. I'm "cheering" for Hunt's proposal as it stands against Melnyk's, and I was kind of amused to see how the Lansdowne Live! website somewhat snidely noted that the field could be made suitable for an MLS team.

With regards to the stadium itself, I don't believe any plans are concrete, as yet. The City is currently assessing the structure of the north side stands, so we'll have to wait and see whether they'll need to build new ones or just refurbish the existing ones. I'm sure refurbishment is the preferred option, since there's nothing inherently wrong with the stands that renovations can't fix, and it would save having to rebuild the Civic Centre.

As for the south side, I believe they want to refurbish the upper stands, and then completely replace the now-demolished lower stands. With regards to capacity expansion, I'm not sure, but looking at their current plan, there'd probably be room to build extensions on the corners of the field, should demand warrant it.

Oh, and I'd like them to call the team the Rough Riders again. It has history in Ottawa, and it'd be nice to return the CFL to it's quirky "Why do they have two teams with the same name?" days.

Uhmmm, footie in a gridiron stadium? No thanks.

http://web.mlsnet.com/media/player/mp_tpl.jsp?w=mms%3A//a1503.v115042.c11504.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/11504/v0001/mlbmls.download.akamai.com/11504/2008/open/topplays/10/101808_cocrbn_sapero_goal_400.wmv&w_id=26983&catCode=top_plays&type=v_free&_mp=1

^^

It's not unheard of. The Seattle Sounders FC will play home games at Qwest Field, with no plans for a soccer specific stadium.

Anyway, I'd much rather have a downtown mixed-use stadium than a stadium stuck way the hell out in Kanata.

Well, I didn't want them to get a team for that same reason. Look at the video I posted, it looks horrendous.

^^ Video doesn't load for me, but I do know what you mean. Although I heard that Frank Clair got positive reviews when it was used for the U-20 World Cup.

Regardless, Ottawa isn't going to get an MLS team. The competition is too good, and we don't have enough history with the sport. We should focus on getting the CFL back in town for now.

Uhmmm, footie in a gridiron stadium? No thanks.

http://web.mlsnet.com/media/player/mp_tpl.jsp?w=mms%3A//a1503.v115042.c11504.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/11504/v0001/mlbmls.download.akamai.com/11504/2008/open/topplays/10/101808_cocrbn_sapero_goal_400.wmv&w_id=26983&catCode=top_plays&type=v_free&_mp=1Hmmm, I can hear the video, but can't see it. Anyway, I can imagine... it does look terrible when you see the beautiful game played on a gridiron playing surface. They had that here at the old Empire Stadium in the NASL days. If the Whitecaps manage to get into the MLS within the next few years, they'll no doubt have to share it with the BC Lions at BC Place. It's getting a face lift before and after the Olympics. As long as there are plans to eventually move into a soccer specific stadium, I could live with it for a few years.

Here is the first game at BC Place, which I attended. No lines for CFL.
sQgeVYlt6Vw

Also, a more recent one. So I guess it shouldn't be a problem.
0qNwJgmSdng

A broadening of the sports options and their continued development is good for all of us whether we ourselves are fans or not.

ITA.

Hey has anyone ever been to the Toronto Cricket and Skating Club? They used to have more international cricket matches there but now have them at King City instead. But is there a chance of building permanent stands/stadium set up around the pitch there or would the local residents be against that? Looking at Google Earth it looks like they are pretty close.

Cricket matches aren't shown on main tv stations anywhere in Canada that I know, yet. They used to by the way. But that doesn't mean people aren't watching them on satellite or the internet. Ask a South Asian or Caribbean immigrant, including their kids, if they watch cricket and you won't be surprised to hear that they watch it by those means. I watch most England matches via internet tv in fact.

The sport is growing fast in Canada. Just look to how many schools in the TO area are now offering it to students.

- Scotiabank is the Official sponsor Cricket Canada.
- A cricket stadium is planned in Toronto in the next few years. Pakistan, India and Sri Lanka have well received this idea and put in their collective efforts to make it happen so they will play their summer ties in Toronto.
- 700 clubs in Canada.
- 70,000 players.
- Sri Lanka Cricket has officially adopted Canada Cricket team which gives SL the responsibility of nurturing the Canadian side to a higher international level.
- Canada has qualified for the last 2 World Cups.
- Ranked 14th in the World. 4 behind the 10 Test countries.

Good info dude, Cricket needs more exposure in Canada. Canada has talent, especially will all the south asian people here. The Cheema guy in the Canadian team gave a hard time even to Shoaib Akthar. This 5 year contact will definitely boost the impact of Cricket in Canada.

But Pakistan should have won the tourney. >(

Uhmmm, footie in a gridiron stadium? No thanks.


I simply can't wrap my head around the aversion you have for soccer and football playing in the same stadium. A soccer pitch is only marginally wider which would lead to soccer fans being closer to the action. The length of the pitch is shorter, meaning soccer fans would be a good 20 yards further back behind the goal, than they are used to.

Considering that TFC has practically no stands behind each net, I fail to see why this is upsetting to soccer people. If anything, soccer is going to benefit from getting a better stadium than they would without pro-football. Another paying tenant, more investment dollars, and probably a slightly larger capacity stadium than would get built for a soccer only facility.

This smacks of letting one's dislike of football, cloud one's judgement. Combining baseball and field sports that require rectangular fields, I can understand. Objecting to soccer being paired up with football is bizarre. It's almost an ideal collaboration. If this is the prevailing attitude amongst soccer people, they don't deserve any stadium at all. It would serve them right.

We all have varying degrees of opinion about mixing the two sports on the same field. My problem is primarily with seeing grid lines from CFL/NFL while watching a soccer game, not that it'd be a problem in BC Place. They can swap between the two different surfaces easily enough, but that'll cost some money. The second problem is with artificial turf... Soccer purists like me much prefer real grass. A soccer specific stadium can go with real grass, not having to worry about preparing the field week after week between the two sports. The issue with the length of field shouldn't be a problem at BC Place, because you'll notice they can add extra seats behind the nets.

I don't think it's only soccer fans hating sharing a stadium with another sport, there's a few good reasons.

One is that MLS wants their teams and future franchises to have soccer specific stadiums. It's part of the criteria for getting a franchise now. Seattle being the exception, which probaby had more to do with getting Paul Allen's Microsoft dollars and his investment in the team and MLS. I think we'll see a second exception if Miami gets a team, due to Barcelona buying into a MLS club there. Double standards, I know.

The norm for soccer pitches around the world is stands right to the pitch, especially the ends.

Another reason is if the stadium is shared with grid-iron then the pitch would more than likely have to be FieldTurf as real grass gets destroyed and cannot be kept up to par with both sports being played on it. Plus dealing with the lines. MLS prefers that stadiums have real turf, again falling into line with the rest of the world, and their plan of making MLS more internationalised. Same with the pitch dimensions. Soccer fans hate FieldTurf and more importantly the players hate it. It's even affected TFC from signing important overseas players because they won't play on it.

And probably the main reason is MLS prefers stadiums that have around 25k seats so it's a more intimate venue. They don't want stadia larger than this. Again, Seattle and a Miami being exceptions. Most CFL stadiums require 30k plus seats, and I think it's 40k to host a Grey Cup so that's not going to fly with getting a MLS franchise.

So basically what it comes down to is having this criteria to get a franchise. If a city doesn't than there is plenty of others in line wanting one.

Aren't lines changed back and forth depending on what sport is being played? I've watched the Argonauts play, and you can hardly notice where the baseball diamond is. Conversely, during Blue Jays games, the yard lines of football are barely noticeable.

I understand the desire for grass over Field Turf, but I doubt that any soccer specific stadiums in Canada will install grass. It's just not a financially viable surface in this climate. Costs escalate, and the number of days the facility can be used is drastically reduced when one opts for grass.

It's no accident that Commonwealth Stadium is the only significant facility in the country with grass. Soccer stadiums will get built will Field Turf in this country. Lines from other sports are going to be concealed.

Ottawa's revamped Frank Clair would hold 25,000. That's not too big for the MLS, and MLS' stipulation for soccer specific has more to do with not wanting franchises playing in NFL sized stadiums. A CFL stadium seating 25,000 is almost exactly the type of stadium that MLS is asking for. No grass, but this is Canada. Grass is just not going to happen unless a deep pocketed owner wants to spend a lot of additional money to make some fans happy. Not likely.

Aren't lines changed back and forth depending on what sport is being played? I've watched the Argonauts play, and you can hardly notice where the baseball diamond is. Conversely, during Blue Jays games, the yard lines of football are barely noticeable. <<< Yes, like I said in my previous post.
I understand the desire for grass over Field Turf, but I doubt that any soccer specific stadiums in Canada will install grass. It's just not a financially viable surface in this climate. Costs escalate, and the number of days the facility can be used is drastically reduced when one opts for grass. <<< Don't forget Montreal. The Whitecaps will have real grass in their stadium. The cost argument is silly, because if youth soccer games can play on real grass, certainly a pro team can. MLS plays in the summer, so even less problems with maintenance.

It's no accident that Commonwealth Stadium is the only significant facility in the country with grass. Soccer stadiums will get built will Field Turf in this country. Lines from other sports are going to be concealed. <<< One word. Montreal.

Ottawa's revamped Frank Clair would hold 25,000. That's not too big for the MLS, and MLS' stipulation for soccer specific has more to do with not wanting franchises playing in NFL sized stadiums. A CFL stadium seating 25,000 is almost exactly the type of stadium that MLS is asking for. No grass, but this is Canada. Grass is just not going to happen unless a deep pocketed owner wants to spend a lot of additional money to make some fans happy. Not likely. <<< It's now costing TFC not having real grass, like Overground said. I bet you'll see grass there eventually. Bottom line is, fans and players don't like it.

Comments in blue. I can't figure out the multi-quote feature.

I simply can't wrap my head around the aversion you have for soccer and football playing in the same stadium. A soccer pitch is only marginally wider which would lead to soccer fans being closer to the action. The length of the pitch is shorter, meaning soccer fans would be a good 20 yards further back behind the goal, than they are used to.

Considering that TFC has practically no stands behind each net, I fail to see why this is upsetting to soccer people. If anything, soccer is going to benefit from getting a better stadium than they would without pro-football. Another paying tenant, more investment dollars, and probably a slightly larger capacity stadium than would get built for a soccer only facility.

This smacks of letting one's dislike of football, cloud one's judgement. Combining baseball and field sports that require rectangular fields, I can understand. Objecting to soccer being paired up with football is bizarre. It's almost an ideal collaboration. If this is the prevailing attitude amongst soccer people, they don't deserve any stadium at all. It would serve them right.

1. Not necessarily.

2. Are you crazy!!! :eek: The southern stand at BMO is the most important part of the stadium bar none. It is where the most passionate supporters stand and sing their lungs out for the club. Ends like those are where most Ultras and Supporter groups sit. You can look everywhere arounf the globe and you will se flags and the most vocal of fans, behinf the net.

Dortmund
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2069/1651111601_4d2db12ccf.jpg

Liverpool
http://d.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/empics/20080220/11/1651619578-soccer-uefa-champions-league-liverpool-v-inter-milan-anfield.jpg

Sampdoria
http://members.fortunecity.it/mondoultras/6sampdoria.jpg

btw, this was the video I posted.

ySLAipswRgQ

btw, this was the video I posted.

ySLAipswRgQ Yea. That's laghable. No, it's horrible really.

That Giants stadium setup is a disgrace. When TFC play there I can't watch the screen. You would think it would be against some sort of FIFA rule.

With grass, TFC is more than likely switching to it for next season, as the rumours go. The Mayor said they're working hard to get it done. It all depends on where MLSE can/or will build a community pitch with artificial turf. This was one of the city's stipulations when they built BMO, a multi-use community field.

Montreal is grass. Vancouver will eventually be grass, if they hurry up and build the damn thing. FieldTurf is turning into a farce with teams, as TFC have proved with trying to acquire international footballers. Even Canada mens team said they prefer to play at Montreal instead of BMO.

If TFC get real grass then Seattle would be the only club using FieldTurf. The rest have built real grass stadiums or plan to.

Don't get me wrong. I think renovationg Lansdowne is great, and I do like the render, but the football is the part that kills me. If they do a good job hiding the lines (which I doubt) then go ahead...

^^Ok, that sounds more reasonable. If pro soccer was very well developed and swimming in cash, buy all means, go for a soccer specific stadium with grass. That would be wonderful. Unfortunately, pro soccer and football in this country do not have that luxury. At this point in the history of MLS in Canada, and with the CFL slowly climbing out of a 30 year abyss, these 2 sports need each other so that they can BOTH move forward and prosper.

I'd rather see an Ottawa MLS team at Frank Clair playing on Field Turf than no team at all because of unreasonable demands on the municipal government. Ottawa is not going to fund 2 stadiums just because soccer wants grass and stands closer to a net. What will likely happen is that Frank Clair will go ahead, and Ottawa's MLS chances go up in smoke. Melnyk needs to realize that his demands are going to sink the whole MLS ship.

Comments in blue. I can't figure out the multi-quote feature.

I just add to my original post, and do a lot of cut and paste. I wasn't aware of an easier method.

Back to the argument: If the cost of grass wasn't an issue, ownership groups wouldn't bring it up all the time. Youth groups do not play in $120 million stadiums. When you're spending that kind of money, you need the facility used as much as possible. A grass field with $100,000 in bleachers doesn't face the same type of financial justification that a multi-million facility does. It's not comparable.

Regarding grid lines, we agree. If they are camouflaged, it isn't an issue.

If soccer players and fans won't tolerate Field Turf, that's a valid argument. That said, the City of Ottawa should go with the Frank Clair Stadium redevelopment. If soccer people demand grass, and a soccer specific stadium, they should pay for it themselves.

There are only so many tax dollars to go around. If soccer people aren't willing to compromise, then they are on their own. Governments have to put public money where it will go the furthest. In this case, it's a facility that serves more than one sport, and can stay open most of the year. I prefer grass too, but the right decision for the citizens of Ottawa is Frank Clair. The one in Kanata? Sorry, but no.

Do you think football fans like playing in stadiums with athletic tracks? No, stands are way too far from the field, and the track even cuts the corners off the end zones! They do it because they understand the economics of building football specific stadiums in Canada. If they want government funding, they have to work with other sports.

I want Ottawa to get both an MLS team and a CFL team. There's only going to be one stadium built. The most likely way Ottawa will get both teams, is if they share a stadium. If Ottawa MLS prospers and grows, they can always build their own facility one day. What's important today, is to land a franchise. That Frank Clair proposal looks comparable to many current MLS stadiums. It's not like they're asking MLS to play at something unsuitable like Skydome.

^^Ok, that sounds more reasonable. If pro soccer was very well developed and swimming in cash, buy all means, go for a soccer specific stadium with grass. That would be wonderful. Unfortunately, pro soccer and football in this country do not have that luxury. At this point in the history of MLS in Canada, and with the CFL slowly climbing out of a 30 year abyss, these 2 sports need each other so that they can BOTH move forward and prosper.

I'd rather see an Ottawa MLS team at Frank Clair playing on Field Turf than no team at all because of unreasonable demands on the municipal government. Ottawa is not going to fund 2 stadiums just because soccer wants grass and stands closer to a net. What will likely happen is that Frank Clair will go ahead, and Ottawa's MLS chances go up in smoke. Melnyk needs to realize that his demands are going to sink the whole MLS ship.

I think you've summed things up quite succinctly. I think the difference, as well, lies in the fact that Ottawa CAN have a CFL franchise, and MAY have an MLS franchise. There's no way this city can support two 25-30,000 seat stadiums, so we might as well try and build the one that will definitely have a pro sports team on the field within a few years.

^^That's very true. Ottawa has already been granted a CFL franchise conditional on an acceptable stadium proposal. MLS is not guaranteed.


Oh, and I'd like them to call the team the Rough Riders again. It has history in Ottawa, and it'd be nice to return the CFL to it's quirky "Why do they have two teams with the same name?" days.

Looks like we might both get our wish. During a press conference, the old uniform was front and centre. I love those 1970's Ottawa uniforms with that classic 'R' on the helmut. The TSN anchor seems to think the old name will come back too. I appreciate the history and the attachment people in Ottawa have to the name Rough Riders, but if it has to be that, how about just Riders? Here's the clip:

http://watch.tsn.ca/cfl-news-and-highlights/clip103922#clip103922

What happened to Ottawa's previous CFL team? I don't really follow the CFL much.

^^

I seem to recall hearing that they'd secured the rights to the RR name, so it seems as though that's the direction they're headed.

ETA: Poor ownership is essentially what killed the Renegades and first incarnation of the Riders. I can't remember the exact details of the RR, but as far as the Renegades were concerned, they were poorly promoted, financially mismanaged, and couldn't maintain operations in the long term. Jeff Hunt has a good track record with the 67s, on the other hand, which is why a lot of people think things will be different this time around.

What happened to Ottawa's previous CFL team? I don't really follow the CFL much.

The CFL, once the premier football league on the continent, went into a nose dive around 1984. It simply couldn't compete with the massive US television revenues that the NFL was raking in. The CFL went from the pride of the nation, to being viewed as second rate. Almost all teams suffered, and interest plummeted.

The CFL limped along from year to year, talent left the league on the field, in the league offices, and at team offices. Ottawa, unfortunately, suffered more than others. The owner ran the franchise into the ground with stupid gimmicks that angered fans and made a bad situation worse.

The Ottawa Rough Riders, founded in 1876, and winners of 9 Grey Cups, folded to the shock of the football community. This, after all, was one of the oldest pro football teams anywhere, and certainly older than anything that existed in the USA.

People in Ottawa love football, but had had enough. An unstable and inexperienced group were awarded another franchise a few years later by a panicked CFL front office. Of course, that back fired, and that franchise folded as well.

The CFL has been slowly clawing it's way back to respectability. Smarter people began to be hired at league head office, and a solid foundation has now been formed to start building again. Thankfully, they were in no hurry to just grant a team to anyone that came along, but have waited patiently for the right ownership group to emerge. Ottawans still long for their football team back. Finally, it looks like a return to the nation's capital will be realized.


Some football tidbits
1. The first documented football match was a game played at University College, University of Toronto on November 9, 1861.

2. McGill University challenged Harvard University to a game, in 1874. It is through this varsity play, that the game now known as American football entered the United States.

3. The Grey Cup still holds the record for the largest viewing audience in television history for a Canadian sports program as 8,118,000 people watched Toronto edge B.C. 18-17 in 1983. At the time, that represented 33% of the entire national population.

4. The Grey Cup is the second oldest professional sports trophy in North America. Only the Stanley Cup is older.

As you can see, the CFL used to be a very very big deal in this country. Not even the current popularity of the Superbowl comes close to matching the dominance the Grey Cup once had in this nation. I hope the CFL will one day retake its lofty place in the hearts and minds of the nation and return to those glory days. People went to Grey Cup parties. The Superbowl? Um, no.

Wow, if you want FieldTurf then you can forget about hidding those Gridiron lines. It will simply look horrible and immature.

BTW? would the City of Ottawa have anything to do with Melnyk plans if the stadium is in Kanata?

Melnyk wants funding from the City of Ottawa. If his plans were 100% privately funded this wouldn't be a problem at all.

Wow, if you want FieldTurf then you can forget about hidding those Gridiron lines. It will simply look horrible and immature.

How so? They paint over those unsightly soccer lines, so football people don't have to look at them. Field Turf is fairly standard in most modern stadiums without natural grass. Remember Olympic Stadium after the U20 WC? You are right that you could see clues that soccer was played there the day after painting, but we survive.

BTW? would the City of Ottawa have anything to do with Melnyk plans if the stadium is in Kanata?

Ottawa would need to contribute funds no matter which stadium is built.

Melnyk wants funding from the City of Ottawa. If his plans were 100% privately funded this wouldn't be a problem at all.



How so? They paint over those unsightly soccer lines, so football people don't have to look at them. Field Turf is fairly standard in most modern stadiums without natural grass. Remember Olympic Stadium after the U20 WC? You are right that you could see clues that soccer was played there the day after painting, but we survive.

Don't even give me that reverse rubbish. Lets' compare the markings of a gridiron field with a soccer field.

http://www.mustangdrinkware.com/MDW/images/cfl/mirrors2.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Soccer_field_-_empty.svg/780px-Soccer_field_-_empty.svg.png

They most definitely don't look the same so don't treat them the same. Soccer Markings on a football field are practically invisible.

Go Canadian Chocho Go!

"3. The Grey Cup still holds the record for the largest viewing audience in television history for a Canadian sports program as 8,118,000 people watched Toronto edge B.C. 18-17 in 1983. At the time, that represented 33% of the entire national population."

Hehe. Even I watched that.

^^ I did too. I was very very young, and my family had just moved to Halifax, NS from London, UK. My brother and I sat absolutely mesmerized by it. I didn't understand a bloody thing that was going on, but thought it was the most fantastic thing I'd ever seen. I've been an avid fan ever since, so it was so upsetting to see it implode the way it did. Many people don't understand the appeal of sports like football, but to me it's the quintessentially Canadian sport. Nothing like it exists beyond these shores. It's a magnificent spectacle.

In the end, sports are what we make it. The SuperBowl is big because people watch it. People watch it, because it is big. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Likewise, Canadian football, or any other sport, can take that cherished spot in the national consciousness. If we want successful sports teams and leagues, it means supporting them, effort, devotion, and money. These things aren't going to be handed to us on a silver platter. There's a lesson here for all sports.

It irks me when Canadians make fun of the CFL. It's our league. If it's sub-par, what does that say about us? We deserve exactly the teams and the leagues that we have because they are the ones we've built. Want a richer and more celebrated team? You need to go to the game, watch it on tv, and build it into one. The NFL didn't happen over night. Americans built it. They deserve the wealthy league they have. They put in the effort, time, and money over decades. We didn't, so we got what we have today.

We can get back there, but people need to change their attitudes, build their teams, and end their sense of entitlement.

Don't even give me that reverse rubbish. Lets' compare the markings of a gridiron field with a soccer field.

They most definitely don't look the same so don't treat them the same. Soccer Markings on a football field are practically invisible.

I'm sorry. I couldn't help teasing you. :poke:

Thanks for those images though. I got all excited there for a minute. Had Choco become a Mustangs fan? I know that won't happen, so I hope you get your soccer stadium. I think Melnyk isn't going to make it a likely outcome though.

I'm bored so I thought I'd make a list of MLS clubs and who has real grass. As you can see most already play on grass and the trend is to build SSS(soccer specific stadium) with real grass. This is the norm and unless an expansion bid can conform to this they have a slim chance of getting a franchise.

The only club with with no plans to build a SSS with real grass is Seattle. Paul Allen $$$ the reason for that.


Chicago - grass SSS
Columbus - grass SSS
Washington - grass - proposed move to SSS with grass 2010.
Kansas City - grass - grass SSS 2010.
Chivas USA - grass SSS
Colorado - grass SSS
Dallas - grass SSS
Houston - grass - planned move to SSS with grass 2010.
Los Angeles - grass SSS
Salt Lake - grass SSS
San Jose - grass - proposed SSS 2010.
New York - grass SSS 2009
Philadelphia(2010 expansion team) - grass SSS 2010.


New England - FieldTurf - proposal for a grass stadium at Somerville.
Toronto - FieldTurf SSS(plans for grass - see Mayor Miller's comments & others).
Seattle(2009 expansion team) - FieldTurf

I guess I get passionate lol

And I do suppose that Melnyk will not get the team. Although I hope he pursues a USL-1 team.

^^We all get passionate about things we love. I know how much you love soccer, so I didn't take it the wrong way. Do you think it's plausible that none of the Canadian bids succeed? What about 6-7 new Canadian teams in USL and then to pull a 'WHA': a merger between USL and MLS a few years later?

That might be a sneaky way of getting a decent number of Canadian teams in there. We all know this country's record when it comes to domestic sports leagues. We only have 1 domestic league, and it's hardly been a rock of financial stability over the last 20 years.

There's no way this city can support two 25-30,000 seat stadiums, so we might as well try and build the one that will definitely have a pro sports team on the field within a few years.

Do you think they got the capacity right? I was thinking it would be 30,000 to 40,000, but maybe they are right to start with 25,000 and get sell outs.

^^

It makes more sense to start small and work up from there if needed. It's the model that seems to be working in Montreal right now, if nothing else.

Well, if all Canadian cities are rejected or at least two are, I hope and dream they do the following:

Get really mad and start working together to create a league of their own. Make a Canadian league.

How bout those Raps! :cheers::banana::cheers:

Oooh... there will be a few folk not happy to hear this news. But too bad.
From online Globe and Mail, link:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081020.shoalts21/BNStory/National/home


NHL floats notion of second team in Toronto

DAVID SHOALTS

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

October 21, 2008 at 12:18 AM EDT

TORONTO — NHL governors are talking informally about placing a second hockey team in Toronto alongside the Maple Leafs, The Globe and Mail has learned.

“Why shouldn't we put another team in the best and biggest market in the world?” one of several NHL governors who spoke with The Globe anonymously said of the Greater Toronto Area.

According to this governor, one idea floated is for prospective owner Jim Balsillie to be rewarded with an expansion team in Toronto after helping to restore financial ballast to the Nashville Predators.

“I've heard this exact scenario,” a second governor said.

Calgary Flames co-owner Harley Hotchkiss, a former chairman of the NHL board of governors, is also aware of the Balsillie movement.

“I've heard bits and pieces of this scenario, although not in that kind of detail,” he said. “Our priority is to have the existing franchises solid.”

“[It is] an interesting scenario,” Mr. Hotchkiss added, “ but I can only speak generally.”

Richard Peddie, president of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, said the organization would not automatically reject the idea of a second team in Toronto.

“When and if the league brings expansion to the table, we'll listen and decide what is best [for hockey],” he said.

As to the potential impact on the Maple Leafs, the first governor dismissively waved his hand. “The Maple Leafs would not be hurt one bit. In fact, it would help them. They could make all kinds of money renting the Air Canada Centre to the other team.”

Richard Rodier, a Toronto lawyer who acts as spokesman for Mr. Balsillie on hockey matters, declined to comment. Bill Daly, the deputy commissioner of the NHL, did not respond to a request for comment.

Two more NHL governors said the league should put a second team in Toronto, although one of them said it should be by relocating an existing franchise rather than expanding.

“I don't think it can be an expansion team,” a governor said. “We can't expand because we would be the laughingstock of professional sports.

“We've got too many troubled franchises. We've got to look at relocating a couple of them. These franchises were troubled long before the economic downturn and next year is going to be worse on them.”

Mr. Balsillie, the co-CEO of Research in Motion Ltd., angered league executives by attempting to buy the Nashville Predators with the intent of moving the franchise to Hamilton.

The league will never allow Mr. Balsillie to put a team in Hamilton for two reasons, according to one governor. One is that the city would be a tough sell for U.S.-based teams, and the other, more significant reason, is the belief it would ruin the Buffalo Sabres.

“It's a minor-league town,” the governor said of Hamilton. “How could we sell a team from Hamilton? Do you think the New York Rangers want to put the Hamilton Steelers on their marquee at Madison Square Garden? Do you think anyone in Manhattan would buy tickets to see them?”

He also said a team in Hamilton would mean thousands of fans in the Niagara Peninsula who attend Sabres games would simply drive to Hamilton to avoid border lineups.

“We do not want to kill the Sabres,” the governor said. “But if there was a second team in Toronto, that would not hurt Buffalo.”

A comparable situation exists in Los Angeles, where the Staples Center houses three professional teams – the Kings of the NHL, plus the Lakers and Clippers of the NBA.

A third governor thinks the Buffalo Sabres might accept a second team in Southern Ontario as well if it made business sense. He said that means charging Mr. Balsillie as much as $700-million (U.S.) for an expansion franchise.

NHL floats notion of second team in Toronto


DAVID SHOALTS


October 21, 2008 at 12:18 AM EDT

TORONTO — NHL governors are talking informally about placing a second hockey team in Toronto alongside the Maple Leafs, The Globe and Mail has learned.

“Why shouldn't we put another team in the best and biggest market in the world?” one of several NHL governors who spoke with The Globe anonymously said of the Greater Toronto Area.

According to this governor, one idea floated is for prospective owner Jim Balsillie to be rewarded with an expansion team in Toronto after helping to restore financial ballast to the Nashville Predators.

“I've heard this exact scenario,” a second governor said.

Calgary Flames co-owner Harley Hotchkiss, a former chairman of the NHL board of governors, is also aware of the Balsillie movement.

“I've heard bits and pieces of this scenario, although not in that kind of detail,” he said. “Our priority is to have the existing franchises solid.”

“[It is] an interesting scenario,” Mr. Hotchkiss added, “ but I can only speak generally.”

Richard Peddie, president of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, said the organization would not automatically reject the idea of a second team in Toronto.

“When and if the league brings expansion to the table, we'll listen and decide what is best [for hockey],” he said.

As to the potential impact on the Maple Leafs, the first governor dismissively waved his hand. “The Maple Leafs would not be hurt one bit. In fact, it would help them. They could make all kinds of money renting the Air Canada Centre to the other team.”

Richard Rodier, a Toronto lawyer who acts as spokesman for Mr. Balsillie on hockey matters, declined to comment. Bill Daly, the deputy commissioner of the NHL, did not respond to a request for comment.

Two more NHL governors said the league should put a second team in Toronto, although one of them said it should be by relocating an existing franchise rather than expanding.

“I don't think it can be an expansion team,” a governor said. “We can't expand because we would be the laughingstock of professional sports.

“We've got too many troubled franchises. We've got to look at relocating a couple of them. These franchises were troubled long before the economic downturn and next year is going to be worse on them.”

Mr. Balsillie, the co-CEO of Research in Motion Ltd., angered league executives by attempting to buy the Nashville Predators with the intent of moving the franchise to Hamilton.

The league will never allow Mr. Balsillie to put a team in Hamilton for two reasons, according to one governor. One is that the city would be a tough sell for U.S.-based teams, and the other, more significant reason, is the belief it would ruin the Buffalo Sabres.

“It's a minor-league town,” the governor said of Hamilton. “How could we sell a team from Hamilton? Do you think the New York Rangers want to put the Hamilton Steelers on their marquee at Madison Square Garden? Do you think anyone in Manhattan would buy tickets to see them?”

He also said a team in Hamilton would mean thousands of fans in the Niagara Peninsula who attend Sabres games would simply drive to Hamilton to avoid border lineups.

“We do not want to kill the Sabres,” the governor said. “But if there was a second team in Toronto, that would not hurt Buffalo.”

A comparable situation exists in Los Angeles, where the Staples Center houses three professional teams – the Kings of the NHL, plus the Lakers and Clippers of the NBA.

A third governor thinks the Buffalo Sabres might accept a second team in Southern Ontario as well if it made business sense. He said that means charging Mr. Balsillie as much as $700-million (U.S.) for an expansion franchise.






From TSN.ca


NHL GOVERNORS CONSIDERING SECOND TEAM IN TORONTO


It appears some National Hockey League officials think the Toronto market is big enough to have two teams.

According to The Globe and Mail, NHL governors have had informal talks about putting a second team in Toronto.

''Why shouldn't we put another team in the best and biggest market in the world?'' one governor told the newspaper anonymously, adding one scenario involves Research in Motion CEO Jim Balsillie being awarded an expansion franchise after coming to the aid of the financially-strapped Nashville Predators.

''I've heard bits and pieces of this scenario, although not in that kind of detail,'' Calgary Flames co-owner Harley Hotchkiss told The Globe and Mail. ''Our priority is to have the existing franchises solid.''

President of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Richard Peddie said his organization would listen to any expansion suggestions and downplayed any negative effect it could have on the Maple Leafs.

''When and if the league brings expansion to the table, we'll listen and decide what is best for hockey,'' Peddie told The Globe and Mail. ''The Maple Leafs would not be hurt one bit. In fact, it would help them. They could make all kinds of money renting the Air Canada Centre to the other team.''

Another governor told the newspaper the league would be better served by moving an exisiting team as opposed to granting an expansion franchise.

“I don't think it can be an expansion team,” the unnamed governor told The Globe and Mail. “We can't expand because we would be the laughingstock of professional sports. We've got too many troubled franchises."

In recent years, Balsillie has made attempts to buy the Predators and Pittsburgh Penguins amid speculation he would move the team to the southern Ontario region.

Files from The Globe and Mail were used in this report.

I heard about this on the radio.

What I didn't like though was that the new team would almost certainly be playing out of the ACC. I really would rather see the team land in Hamilton rather than help prop up MLSE (I'm sure the deal would only happen if they were to play out of the ACC).

The biggest benefit from it for fans would be to motivate MLSE to make the Leafs more of a contender.

I posted this last night in the Canadian Sports thread!

Quite frankly, they could put another 3 teams in Toronto, and they'd all prosper. It would certainly give an outlet to all those people who dislike the Leafs too.

Reports of second NHL team in Toronto 'nonsense'


NHL executive says idea has never been considered
Oct 21, 2008 12:14 PM
Kevin McGran
SPORTS REPORTER

It sounds as if reports that the NHL is considering placing a second team in Toronto are more fantasy than reality.

"The story is nonsense," one highly placed NHL source told the Star. "Perhaps the musings of one team representative. Expansion to Toronto has never been discussed with the board, the executive committee or any other league committee.

"And it's never been considered internally."

The report suggested league governors would reward Canadian billionaire Jim Balsillie for his aid in propping up the Nashville Predators.

In return for helping keep the Preds in Nashville while one of the team's owners, James (Boots) Del Biaggio, is in bankruptcy court, the NHL would award Balsillie an expansion team for Toronto.

Richard Peddie, president of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, called talk of expansion "speculative" in a statement.

It's widely believed the Leafs and Buffalo Sabres blocked Balsillie's attempt to buy the Nashville Predators last year and move them to Hamilton. But Peddie tried to sound open at least to the idea.

"If or when the National Hockey League comes to the board of governors with a recommendation on relocation or expansion of an NHL franchise, Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment will analyze the recommendation and provide its input at that time," said Peddie.

just give one to Hamilton.

Exactly! Actually give one to Winnipeg, Quebec City, Victoria, Hamilton, the Maritimes, Saskatchewan, Mississauga, and then give Toronto another 3 teams.

2 is enough for the GTA, although I somewhat agree that that amount of teams are supportable. Of course the other side of me dislikes hockey, so I wouldn't want that.

Hockey? Not a fan, I don't mind the sport, but do dislike the NHL intensely. Every few years, I try to watch a game because I forget why I won't watch it. Some punches fly, the guy doesn't get arrested, and I turn the channel.

:)

“It's a minor-league town,” the governor said of Hamilton. “How could we sell a team from Hamilton? Do you think the New York Rangers want to put the Hamilton Steelers on their marquee at Madison Square Garden? Do you think anyone in Manhattan would buy tickets to see them?”

Hasn't stopped the NHL playing in smaller cities, or cities that are just as obscure. Raleigh comes to mind.

What a douche!

“It's a minor-league town,” the governor said of Hamilton. “How could we sell a team from Hamilton? Do you think the New York Rangers want to put the Hamilton Steelers on their marquee at Madison Square Garden? Do you think anyone in Manhattan would buy tickets to see them?”

Hasn't stopped the NHL playing in smaller cities, or cities that are just as obscure. Raleigh comes to mind.

What a douche!

Exactly! People in Hamilton won't get a team because people in Manhattan won't want to go see them? Who cares what people in Manhattan think. I care a lot more about hockey in Canadian cities than the optics to a Manhattanite.

It's absurd that Canada has no professional hockey league. It's comments like this that make it even more intolerable. I hope that Russian League takes off, and they start adding teams here, that will teach the American NHL people to stop jerking us around.

Do they think Canadian hockey fans want to go see the Tampa Bay Lightning? Carolina? San Jose? Anaheim? Florida? Columbus? They'd much rather see Quebec City, Saskatchewan, Winnipeg, Halifax, or Hamilton. Those places care about hockey. People in North Carolina didn't even know the Stanley Cup was going on when their team was in the final.

Momentum swings our way
NHL in Hamilton no longer long shot

October 22, 2008
Steve Milton
The Hamilton Spectator

The important thing to remember is that, for the past 18 years, this battle has always been less about Hamilton than about a second team in Toronto.

Not the city proper, but its massive catchment basin. And the only NHL-sized rink in that area just happens to be in Hamilton.

And, despite what our colleagues at another newspaper insist, that is the rink where the next NHL team in this area -- assuming there is one -- will play. It's where Jim Balsillie, for his own reasons, wants the team.

For some months, there's been a softening of the once-rigid assumption no team could ever invade the Toronto Maple Leafs' sacred space. Prompted by The Spectator, some NHL owners had already wondered in private why theirs is the only professional league in the world that lets just one team mine its richest market.

What has changed this week is that some NHL governors are actually willing to talk about it in public, even if they're leery of attaching their names to their most pointed comments. Even staunch Gary Bettman ally Harley Hotchkiss, co-owner of the Calgary Flames, wouldn't deny he's heard Toronto-2 talk.

As recently as six months ago, Bettman had such control over his board no one would have expressed anything but the company line about the Toronto market -- which was essentially "no comment, so buzz off" -- let alone suggest there was a movement to put a second team there.

This change suggests Bettman is losing some of his grip on the people he works for, but who sometimes act like they work for him.

And, among Bettman's many mantras has been a Hammer-less NHL. His greatest issue with Jim Balsillie, until things got personal, was not the man himself but where he wanted, and still wants, to put a team. But trashing a city, especially one with ticket buyers to two NHL franchises, is bad form so, instead, the man got trashed. Balsillie was falsely demonized to governors.

Many things have changed since the NHL board meeting in June 2006, where, and after which, Bettman could not control his anger at Balsillie for staring him down with the season's ticket and corporate box campaign in Hamilton.

That got Balsillie's bid plenty of attention, which, at the onset, was destructive to his NHL aspirations but has quickly morphed into a strength. He challenged a basic assumption out loud and that got some important folks inside the league wondering why, in a revenue-sharing era, the NHL is leaving so much money on the southern Ontario table.

And some owners have become better acquainted with Balsillie, who has been quietly pitching his ownership strengths, with the mounting help of some allies within the NHL. Additionally, Bettman-recommended ownership structures in Nashville and Tampa have blown up very publicly in the NHL's face, with the Boots Del Biaggio fiasco far more resonant behind closed doors than the league will admit. So is the rising salary floor.

The teetering North American economy has become the best friend of the Balsillie bid. Even with the downsized Canadian dollar, there will be no shortage of franchises that can be rescued only by sale, relocation or both.

All this has conspired to change the direction the wind blows and even the folks at Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Limited are rejigging their sails. They know their league brethren are beginning to abandon them, recognizing a team in this area won't hurt the Leafs much, especially since no one involved disputes a Spectator report that Balsillie's group would hire MLSE to run their arena.

But a Leaf compromise would fall short of allowing within their city limits a new team and, far worse, a new arena that would be serious competition for the same non-hockey properties the ACC hosts.

Copps Coliseum is already in competition for those dates, so nothing would change there if Balsillie bought and moved Nashville, Phoenix, Florida, Atlanta, or, oh geez, the list is getting longer with each Dow drop.

As for Buffalo, their Canadian ticket sales have been greatly overestimated. The real figure is 11 per cent after being as high as 25 per cent a few decades back.

And no small portion of those Canadian tickets are sold for Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal games. Hamilton would join that trio. Can any sane person believe the 50 kilometres between Copps and, say, Woodbine Racetrack, would make a substantial difference to the Buffalo franchise? Puh-leeze.

But a team in Hamilton would still hit the Sabres, perhaps knocking their Canadian sales down to 5 or 6 per cent. Balsillie is known to have a relationship with the Sabres' ownership and management, so a financial arrangement could easily be worked out.

Talk is of an expansion team, but that won't happen, at least not soon, although expansion would give the other owners a share of the Balsillie windfall. There are too many franchises wanting to sell. Plus, according to Spec sources, the other expansion sure thing is now off the table. Well-known TV producer Jerry Bruckheimer, once willing to pay $250 million, has grown disinterested in hockey for Las Vegas. Head office isn't popular over that defection, either.

So momentum, once so stiffly against Balsillie and Hamilton, is moving behind them. That doesn't mean a team here is imminent, but it's no longer such a long shot.

Well, Huge tie for the Impact last night. With the 1 point, they are assured to move on to the next round of the concacaf Champions League.

Biggest game in Canadian Soccer history and where are the folks from Soccer Canada. Nowhere to be found! Pathetic!

GO Impact!

Soccer Canada? What?

I heard about this on the radio.

What I didn't like though was that the new team would almost certainly be playing out of the ACC. I really would rather see the team land in Hamilton rather than help prop up MLSE (I'm sure the deal would only happen if they were to play out of the ACC).

The biggest benefit from it for fans would be to motivate MLSE to make the Leafs more of a contender.

Most of the leafs fanbbase in the stix so a second nhl team in Toronto would make absolutely no sense.
The more relvent question is toronto getting a National league MLB team or AT LEAST the Bills lol.

Well, Huge tie for the Impact last night. With the 1 point, they are assured to move on to the next round of the concacaf Champions League.

Biggest game in Canadian Soccer history and where are the folks from Soccer Canada. Nowhere to be found! Pathetic!

GO Impact!This is fantastic. Either Montreal is really that good or the other teams are too hyped. Sorry to nitpick, but... I'd say it's the biggest soccer game in Canadian club history, maybe. The 86 World Cup was way way more in the forefront of people's attention. Biggest game for Montreal definitely, and it'll only get bigger. Biggest game for Vancouver was the 79 Soccer Bowl NASL victory, in which over a hundred thousand people turned out to celebrate their return. So, a little ways to go in my books.

Exactly! People in Hamilton won't get a team because people in Manhattan won't want to go see them? Who cares what people in Manhattan think. I care a lot more about hockey in Canadian cities than the optics to a Manhattanite.

It's absurd that Canada has no professional hockey league. It's comments like this that make it even more intolerable. I hope that Russian League takes off, and they start adding teams here, that will teach the Americans to stop jerking us around.

Do they think Canadian hockey fans want to go see the Tampa Bay Lightning? Carolina? San Jose? Anaheim? Florida? Columbus? They'd much rather see Quebec City, Saskatchewan, Winnipeg, Halifax, or Hamilton. Those places care about hockey. People in North Carolina didn't even know the Stanley Cup was going on when their team was in the final.

Here's an idea, let's pay all Canadian hockey players to stay at home for one season, and we'll see what the US has for hockey: FUCK ALL!

The NHL needs the 6 Canadian teams more than they need the NHL, but the owners are too uninterested in the further development of pro hockey in the rest of Canada to do anything about it.

If they demanded another 6 teams in Canada, they might just get it. A better scenario would be to leave the league. They could easily award 6 new Canadian franchises, leave the NHL, set up new league HQ in Toronto, and take the best 12 US teams with them.

Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver
ADD: Halifax, Quebec City, Mississauga, Hamilton, Winnipeg, Saskatchewan

US teams to mutiny: Boston, NY Rangers, NY Islanders, Philadelphia, Washington, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, and Minnesota.
ADD: Wisconsin

A 24 team league in cities that care about hockey. We wouldn't ever have to endure any more Stanley Cups in North Carolina or California.

US teams to mutiny: Boston, NY Rangers, NY Islanders, Philadelphia, Washington, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, and Minnesota.
ADD: Wisconsin


I'd put Denver ahead of Buffalo. BUffalo would struggle if you were to have a team in Hamilton!

Yes, perhaps, but my choices were weighted towards cities that have an affection for the game. Buffalo does, it's just not going to draw as many people as larger US cities like Minneapolis. I agree that Denver is probably a more lucrative place for a team though.

I'm not one of those people that think culture should be measured in dollars and cents. Money is important, but should never be the only concern. Other factors are arguably just as important in enriching our society. I'd rather see 12,000 rabid Buffalo fans, than 20,000 in LA. Buffalo cares about hockey, LA does not.

I'm not one of those people that think culture should be measured in dollars and cents. Money is important, but should never be the only concern. Other factors are arguably just as important in enriching our society. I'd rather see 12,000 rabid Buffalo fans, than 20,000 in LA. Buffalo cares about hockey, LA does not.


Agreed, however Denver is known to have great hockey Culture. THey actually care about Hockey there (unlike other places like Phoenix, Carolina, South FLorida, Nashville, Anaheim).

oh great! yay we can have yet another Toronto team to be forced to watch. :(

^^ Exactly. I'd much rather Winnipeg, Quebec City, the Maritimes, or Saskatchewan got a team. Develop pro hockey in the whole country before you start adding 2nd teams in cities that already have one.

oh great! yay we can have yet another Toronto team to be forced to watch. :(

hehe.."forced"


strange how the Leafs get such high ratings, isn't it? Apparently everyone hates them, and apparently people only watch when they are forced to! :)

But, when you take the Leafs off... the ratings drop.

yup....

"forced"

I don't think it's nearly as bad as it used to be, when the only channel you had was the CBC. Always either the Montreal Canadians or Toronto Maple Leafs...

hehe.."forced"


strange how the Leafs get such high ratings, isn't it? Apparently everyone hates them, and apparently people only watch when they are forced to! :)

But, when you take the Leafs off... the ratings drop.

yup....

"forced"

I think he/she is referring to the fact that Canadian media is all based in Toronto. Whether Torontonians notice it or not, a Toronto team is going to be broadcast over one from another part of the country because of the size of the Toronto tv audience.

It's a business decision, but people in other parts of the country are 'forced' to watch Toronto based teams if they want to watch hockey, baseball, etc. It doesn't always happen that way, but when locals want to watch the local team, and the 'national' media pick the Toronto team repeatedly, it's only natural that people become resentful and feel like Toronto is being forced upon them.

Maritimers tend to want to watch the Red Sox over the Blue Jays. Boston is considered the local team. I'm sure a similar grievance exists all over the country. I understand the business decision, but it's insensitive to pretend that these teams aren't being forced on the rest of the country. They are.

Always either the Montreal Canadians or Toronto Maple Leafs...


It's the Canadiens, not the Canadians!

And in case some of you haven't noticed, the CBC is starting to show more an more team besides the leafs.(it's a little too late if you ask me!) I know that Saturday nights' game betweren the Habs and the Ducks was broadcast in Québec and British Columbia. It's not much, but ususally it would have been Québec only. For some reason the CBC decided to show the Habs game in BC as well (instead of the leafs)!

I watch my Habs on RDS and TSN, i can't stand the CBC and their biased attitudes (let's not forget that asshole Cherry...i hope he dies soon!)

^^ Exactly. I'd much rather Winnipeg, Quebec City, the Maritimes, or Saskatchewan got a team. Develop pro hockey in the whole country before you start adding 2nd teams in cities that already have one.


I would normally agree with you. I would also like to see NHL teams in Q.C, Winnipeg, Hamilton...however none of those cities could make an NHL franchise thrive.(except maybe for Hamilton, but that's mostly due to it's proximity to Toronto.)

As much as I'd Hate to see another team in Toronto, I think it's the best location for another NHL team. There are enough people to support it, and more importantly, it has the business community and the money to support an NHL franchise.

Q.C and Winnipeg couldn't survive let alone thrive with a salary cap at 57 million$ and a salary floor at 40 million$!

With the way our TV media has grown, there is no longer a total dominance of certain teams over local media. I doubt anyone in Ottawa or Calgary has a hard time finding their teams on TV.

I actually malign the way we have ended up actually as I'm not happy the way they black out games here.

I would normally agree with you. I would also like to see NHL teams in Q.C, Winnipeg, Hamilton...however none of those cities could make an NHL franchise thrive.(except maybe for Hamilton, but that's mostly due to it's proximity to Toronto.)

As much as I'd Hate to see another team in Toronto, I think it's the best location for another NHL team. There are enough people to support it, and more importantly, it has the business community and the money to support an NHL franchise.

Q.C and Winnipeg couldn't survive let alone thrive with a salary cap at 57 million$ and a salary floor at 40 million$!

I'm not disputing the business case for Toronto vs. other Canadian cities, but I've never been one to let my decision rest solely on dollars and cents. Cultural development of Canada and cultural options for Canadians is important as well. If we measure culture only from a business point of view, we'd have no ballet, no opera, art festivals, etc. These things enrich our society.

Sports may not be considered 'high culture', but they contribute to the happiness of a population. For these reasons, I would rather have a slightly poorer NHL, and have a more broadly developed pro sports system throughout Canada.

I've never agreed with the prevailing attitude that sports is only a business.

It's the Canadiens, not the Canadians!

And in case some of you haven't noticed, the CBC is starting to show more an more team besides the leafs.(it's a little too late if you ask me!)

It is getting better, but the grievances aren't coming out of nowhere.

A franchisee who is going to pour megabucks into a team looks upon it differently. They would want to get the best return for their investment.

I would rather have a slightly poorer NHL, and have a more broadly developed pro sports system throughout Canada.


SO do I, unfortunately, we aren't the ones investing 200 or 300 million$ for a team.;) When you invest that kind of cash, you wanna make sure you invested in a region that will not only allow your team to survive, but will allow you not to lose any money at the end of the year!

I've been saying for years that Toronto should get an NHL team!

SO do I, unfortunately, we aren't the ones investing 200 or 300 million$ for a team.;) When you invest that kind of cash, you wanna make sure you invested in a region that will not only allow your team to survive, but will allow you not to lose any money at the end of the year!

Yes, in Canada, that is the reality. I wonder if we'll ever see the type of false economy that has developed in English soccer. Basically, fabulously wealthy Middle Eastern men and Russian oligarchs have lavished huge sums of money on 2nd string teams in the hopes of building a sporting dynasty and satisfying their boyhood desire for sporting glory.

Unfortunately, the professional sports structure on this continent is a closed club. You can't simply start a team and work your way up from division 3, to division 2, and on to the highest division. As long as league franchise holders have a monopoly in their chosen sport, we may never see teams in other Canadian markets. Owners will always block expansions to smaller cities because it's not the sport that they are guardians of, but their bottom lines.

Owning a team is fine, but no one should be able to own a market. The Maple Leafs should never be given geographic rights. It's absurd that these monopolies are allowed to exist and ironic that sports owners are viewed favourably by their sports.

It's ironic because the biggest enemies of sport on this continent, are in fact, franchise owners. They impede the development and growth of their sports to protect their own bank accounts. They are a cancer because they are monopolies.

I've been saying for years that Toronto should get an NHL team!

:lol: gj

It's the Canadiens, not the Canadians!

And in case some of you haven't noticed, the CBC is starting to show more an more team besides the leafs.(it's a little too late if you ask me!) I know that Saturday nights' game betweren the Habs and the Ducks was broadcast in Québec and British Columbia. It's not much, but ususally it would have been Québec only. For some reason the CBC decided to show the Habs game in BC as well (instead of the leafs)!

I watch my Habs on RDS and TSN, ...i can't stand the CBC and their biased attitudes (let's not forget that asshole Cherry...i hope he dies soon!)Yea, I'm well aware of the spelling (of Canadiens), at least when I'm fully conscious and alert. I'll forgive you for your spelling mistakes... if you forgive me. :)

I used to be a big fan of the Habs during the Guy Lafleur era, and I guess the CBC helped with that... I watched countless Canadiens games as a young kid. I barely knew the Canucks existed.

When I was a kid out West (pre NHL expansion days), our family was fiercely split down the middle between support for the Habs and the Leafs. Made for boisterous Hockey Nights in Canada! :lol: That was shortly after Rocket Richard quit playing.

Did they all turn into Jets fans when the WHA and NHL merged?

Oh, it was thrilling when the Jets and Bobby Hull came to town. But people who had supported either the Leafs or the Habs all their lives managed to keep them in their affections as well as supporting the new team!

Do they support the Manitoba Moose now that the Jets are gone? I know you haven't lived there in centuries, but wondered if the atmosphere in the arena is as good, better, or worse. It's still hockey. Do they support it still?

Not a clue.. perhaps 1ajs could answer that for us!

Good idea.

Winnipeg deserve the Jets back. Quebec deserve their Nordiques. Doesn't seem like it will ever happen though. It really sucks. I don't see how it could be a worse financial proposition that the Nashville team, Florida, or Carolina. Both those cities would sell out their arenas, their business leaders would support the teams, as would the politicians. The only drawback is the size of the consumer market. Even here, you'd think that more Manitobans are going to watch commercials during a Jets game than people in North Carolina tuning into watch Carolina.

The significant financial drawback of a Quebec City or Winnipeg team just doesn't seem believable.

I think it is a CRIME that Winnipeg, one of the biggest hockey cities in North America, IMO, still doesn't have an NHL team anymore, and it was an ever bigger crime to move them to Phoenix.