The next city to get a CFL team will be... [Archive] - Page 6

Gdoggy

November 10th, 2008, 04:25 PM

REPORT: SECOND TEAM IN TORONTO COULD BE WORTH $600 MILLION

Tsn.ca

If Southern Ontario is awarded a second NHL team it would be an extremely valuable commodity.

According to a report in the Globe and Mail, a second NHL team in Toronto could be worth up to $600 million and Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment would likely be entitled to a territorial payment of approximately $250 million if an existing team relocated.

The research for the report was done by sports finance expert Marc Ganis who is the president of SportsCorp Ltd. of Chicago. He stated that he believes that the second team in Toronto would instantly become the third most valuable team in the league behind the Maple Leafs and the New York Rangers.

"There is no better (hockey) market anywhere than the one for a second team in Toronto," Ganis told the Globe and Mail. "The reason is the strength of the Toronto market for hockey."

Second Toronto team would be a fat cat

DAVID SHOALTS
From Monday's Globe and Mail

November 10, 2008 at 1:32 AM EST

The value of a second NHL team in Toronto would range between $400-million and $600-million, and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment would be entitled to a one-time territorial payment of up to $250-million for allowing the relocation of an existing team, according to sports economists.

The second team in Toronto would instantly become the third most valuable franchise in the league behind the Maple Leafs and New York Rangers and on par with the Detroit Red Wings and Montreal Canadiens, sports finance expert Marc Ganis said.

Ganis, the president of SportsCorp Ltd. of Chicago and a consultant to professional sports clubs and leagues, said the size and strength of the Greater Toronto Area market would drive the new franchise's value. The payment to MLSE would range between $90-million and $250-million (all currency U.S.), depending on factors such as arena rental, sponsorship, broadcast rights and advertising.

“There is no better [hockey] market anywhere than the one for a second team in Toronto,” Ganis said. “The reason is the strength of the Toronto market for hockey.”

Brad Humphreys, a University of Alberta professor who teaches sports economics, said many variables would be considered to calculate the rights fee, particularly whether the team would become a tenant at the MLSE-owned Air Canada Centre. The rights fee would be lower if the team rented the Air Canada Centre and significantly higher if the club operated another arena in the GTA area.

Likewise, Ganis said, the team's estimated value would be closer to the bottom range if it rented the Air Canada Centre rather than owning its own arena in, say, North York.

“It's tricky because it involves not just current costs but perpetual costs,” Humphreys said. “Who knows? What if 10 years from now the new franchise has won a couple of Stanley Cups and the Leafs have not?”

However, Humphreys believes “$200-million would not be an unreasonable figure” as an estimated rights fee to be paid to the Leafs.

Some NHL governors have informally discussed the notion of placing a second team in the GTA rather than in Hamilton or another Southern Ontario market.

But getting another franchise into Toronto could be difficult – to the point of a prospective owner having to resort to litigation. In that scenario, two legal experts say, there's a good chance the league would be forced into submission.

EXPAND OR RELOCATE

There would be two ways of landing a second team in Toronto. One would be through expansion, which would be easier as it would involve implicit support from the league and MLSE. It's also the more unlikely option, as NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has repeatedly indicated North American expansion isn't on the agenda. Bettman's strategy instead is to continue supporting dubious warm-climate hockey markets such as Nashville, Atlanta, Florida and Phoenix.

The other method is to relocate an existing team and be prepared to fight the NHL for the right to move it.

The incumbent owner would ask the NHL for approval to move the team to another city. If the franchise was being sold to a new owner, the league would first conduct due diligence before approving the sale. (The NHL has an uneven record in this area, given the current bankruptcy proceedings involving Nashville Predators minority owner William (Boots) Del Biaggio.)

Assuming the new owner was deemed worthy, the governors could approve both the sale and the move. However, if the governors approved the sale and refused the move, or refused the sale because it involved a move to Toronto, the dispute could go to court.

Two experts in antitrust law both say there would be at least one and possibly two legal avenues for an owner to pursue.

Anita Anand, the associate dean of the University of Toronto's Faculty of Law, said that if the NHL tried to prevent a move, the prospective owner could take the league to court under Section 79 of the Canadian Competition Act.

COMPETITON IN THE COURTS

Theoretically, the NHL could not use its “dominant position” in the professional hockey market to prevent competition with an existing company, in this case the Maple Leafs. Anand said a lawsuit could be filed on those grounds even though the Competition Bureau, which acts as an enforcement arm for the federal government in antitrust matters, ruled last March that the NHL does not engage in monopolistic behaviour.

The bureau stated that its decision could not be used as the basis for a future case. Therefore, Anand said, “it is possible for the dominant position argument to be successful in a new context.”

The Competition Act states that when “one or more persons substantially control . . . a class or species of business,” it is not permissible for those persons to “have the effect of preventing or lessening competition substantially in a market.”

Another expert who works in antitrust law for a major downtown Toronto firm said the prospective owner could pursue legal action under the section of the Competition Act that deals with restraint of trade. The lawyer, who did not want to be identified because his firm has had dealings with parties involved with the NHL, said a restraint-of-trade complaint could even involve criminal charges.

“You can look at it as if there is an agreement to restrict trade severely,” the lawyer said. “Then, with a league, maybe that agreement lessens competition unduly. That could get you into the criminal provision of the act.”

BEEN THERE, DONE THAT

The bureau investigated a complaint last year that alleged the league's constitution allowed any of the NHL's 30 teams to veto the move of another team into an 80-kilometre radius of its home arena.

The bureau's decision dealt with Jim Balsillie's attempt to buy the Nashville Predators and move the franchise to Hamilton. The NHL blocked the purchase.

In its decision, the Competition Bureau said it “found no instance where a ‘veto' was exercised by an incumbent club to protect its local territory from entry by a competing franchise.”

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly affirmed in e-mail to The Globe and Mail that the constitution does not guarantee a veto. “Any [franchise] relocation into Southern Ontario would only require a majority vote of the Board of Governors,” he said.

Since the Competition Bureau has already been satisfied no veto exists, Anand said, “it may be difficult for an argument about restraint of trade to succeed.”

However, if someone wanted to move a team into Toronto, this would provide the “new context” Anand mentioned, and a different decision would be possible.

What could not be disputed, the experts agreed, is the payment of a territorial rights fee. The NHL and other sports leagues have charged the fees in the past. Most recently in the NHL, former Los Angeles Kings owner Bruce McNall received $25-million in 1993 when the league awarded the Walt Disney Co. an expansion franchise in Anaheim.

algonquin

November 11th, 2008, 05:59 AM

^ it's pointless... the NHL obviously doesn't need more money. We're talking about spreading the LOVE of hockey to warm places. :nuts:

Taller, Better

November 11th, 2008, 06:37 AM

How 'bout them Raps! :D

xzmattzx

November 11th, 2008, 06:49 AM

With all of this NHL talk, does anyone know anything (or even remember) Saskatoon's pushes to get a hockey team? I know they wanted an expansion team in the early 1980s, and I think that they applied for one in the early 1970s as well (at around the time that Buffalo, Washington, Vancouver, etc got their teams). I aso know that they tried to get the Blues to move in the early 1990s, but the league voted against it.

isaidso

November 11th, 2008, 09:55 AM

The NHL will always say no to Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Atlantic Canada. They're all better off applying for a team in that new Russian hockey league. I hope that Russian league takes off, and the NHL's monopoly ends. Stiff competition would make the NHL think twice about treating so many good hockey markets here so poorly.

The NHL don't deserve the number of fans they have in this country. Bring on the Russians!

Canadian Chocho

November 12th, 2008, 12:45 AM

Ya lyublyu ruskie devushek!

Canadian Chocho

November 14th, 2008, 04:06 AM

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081113.SQUEBEC13/TPStory/National

QUEBEC CITY FACILITIES: LIBERALS OFFER $50-MILLION

SEAN GORDON

November 13, 2008

Montreal -- It remains a distant dream, but fans nostalgic for the long-departed Quebec Nordiques may yet have a new NHL team to cheer for.

And so may football fans in Quebec's provincial capital.

A development consortium is flogging a $660-million plan to construct a recreational complex that would include a CFL-ready outdoor football stadium, a state-of-the art hockey installation and a hotel and retail complex in a suburb west of the city.

Quebec Liberal leader Jean Charest, who is running for re-election as premier, promised to kick in $50-million in public money to help finance a new arena project if he wins on Dec. 8.

It's no coincidence Charest is making the announcement in the middle of a campaign - his party was decimated in the Quebec City area and is trying to curry favour with voters by stoking the hope that a spiffy new athletic complex would go a long way to winning a bid for the Winter Olympics (Quebec vied unsuccessfully to host the 2010 Games).

And the whole enterprise is being greeted with a healthy dose of skepticism in la vieille capitale, where speculation over the return of professional hockey and appearance of professional football has raged for years - with little or no progress.

isaidso

November 14th, 2008, 07:33 AM

When they're talking about a western suburb, do you think they're referring to the area near Universite Laval or further out?

habsfan

November 14th, 2008, 09:09 PM

When they're talking about a western suburb, do you think they're referring to the area near Universite Laval or further out?

Much further West. It would be in a suburb called St-Augustin-de-Desmeures. Just south of the Airport along highway 40.

If you've got Streets and Trips(Microsoft), you can see the huge piece of land.

isaidso

November 16th, 2008, 01:38 PM

Oh dear! Quebec City needs a downtown arena and football stadium not one in St-Augustin-de-Desmeures. I'm not a fan of sports facilities plunked down in no man's land. Look at Ottawa! They don't have an NHL team, Kanata does.

Congratulations Montreal and Calgary. Our nation's only professional sports league gears up for the 96th Grey Cup, the 2nd oldest trophy in North American pro sports after the Stanley Cup.

BS1jCfg7Qxc

http://www.jerseycity.ca/ir/oi/1000462/1181222.jpghttp://www.jerseycity.ca/ir/oi/1000462/1181237.jpg

Canadian Chocho

November 16th, 2008, 09:18 PM

^^ Why don't the put one in Lévis. There seems to be plenty of room there.

malek

November 17th, 2008, 12:36 AM

Montreal has lost it's F1 race thanks to the incompetent Mayor Tremblay.

Thank you mayor tremblay for letting the track in such a bad shape for so long, thank you for ruinning the name of our city, thank you for throwing money out of the window on so many toys-programs all over the city.

The only big event we have and we lost it, you can kiss good bye a good portion of commercial ste-catherine, all these because of 13m$/year.

malek

November 17th, 2008, 12:41 AM

its actually 7m$ per year!!! mind boggling:

Le détail des chiffres (en dollars américains):

left: offered, right numbers expected by the F1

2009: 25 928 313 offerts, 31 413 027 exigés
2010: 27 224 728 offerts, 32 983 678 exigés
2011: 28 585 964 offerts, 34 632 861 exigés
2012: 30 015 262 offerts, 36 364 504 exigés
2013: 31 516 025 offerts, 38 182 729 exigés

Total: Sur 5 ans, 143 270 292 offerts, 173 576 802 exigés

Taller, Better

November 17th, 2008, 01:13 AM

and a greedy Bernie Ecclestone deserves some credit, too.

RegencyGirl

November 17th, 2008, 07:46 AM

I just moved to Toronto last week from California. Which games are usually more exciting, Maple Leafs ice hockey or Raptors basketball?

vancouverite/to'er

November 17th, 2008, 07:51 AM

I just moved to Toronto last week from California. Which games are usually more exciting, Maple Leafs ice hockey or Raptors basketball?

If your a cultured Torontonian give the raptors a try!
If your a Ford driving, duck hunting airhead from the 905 go for the leafs!
So it's very ambiguous as to which type of Canadian (the above) you are!!:)

Plumber73

November 17th, 2008, 07:57 AM

I just moved to Toronto last week from California. Which games are usually more exciting, Maple Leafs ice hockey or Raptors basketball?Neither are exciting. Watch Toronto FC. No, wait... ;)

Taller, Better

November 17th, 2008, 04:42 PM

Give them all a go, Regency Girl! We are lucky to have the opportunity to see more than just one or two sports.

RegencyGirl

November 18th, 2008, 02:18 AM

Thanks Taller. I might as well! I'm feeling pretty ambiguous about the other two responses :p

Taller, Better

November 18th, 2008, 02:19 AM

People are, in my humble experience, hard creatures to please! ;)

vancouverite/to'er

November 18th, 2008, 02:21 AM

EDIT

vancouverite/to'er

November 18th, 2008, 02:22 AM

Thanks Taller. I might as well! I'm feeling pretty ambiguous about the other two responses :p

Oh snap! I try to hard don't I?:)
Anyways welcome to SSC Canada!

isaidso

November 20th, 2008, 04:29 AM

^^ Why don't the put one in Lévis. There seems to be plenty of room there.

Levis is south of the river, correct?

ChrisDVD

November 20th, 2008, 04:50 AM

yep, right across...

Overground

November 20th, 2008, 05:43 AM

Canada lost 3 nil to Jamaica tonight in WC Qualifying. Canada already crashed out of Qualifying recently but Jamaica was hoping for help from others in the Group. Even though they scored 3 they lost out on goal difference and it's Honduras and Mexico advancing. Add this to a string of sad events for Canada. A sacking of the CSA is the only thing that will get this team to a respectful position in the world of football.

On the other hand, not is all lost for myself. England visited Germany and defeated them 2 - 1 at Berlin Olympiastadion in a friendly. Not the clobbering of 5 -1 England gave them a few years ago at Munich but England did this basically with their B team.:cheers:

Canadian Chocho

November 20th, 2008, 05:59 AM

^^ Brazil beat Portugal 6-2

Those Brazilians make scoring look easy!

^^ To think Canada there was a time that Canada actually held their own against Brazil...about 6 months ago!

Overground

November 20th, 2008, 08:43 AM

Wow...6 goals! I thought Brazil has been a bit off lately but I guess not now 'cause Portugal is a pretty good side obviously.

Taking a look at some results...

France need to sort it out, they drew with Uruguay 0-0.
Italy and Greece drew 1-1. Must have been a fun match to watch.
Holland 3-1 over Sweden. No surprise here.

Going back to the Eng/Ger match. Interestingly, this was Germany's first loss in Berlin since 1973 and it was at the hands of England not playing their first team. Sorry...had to gloat a bit.

Plumber73

November 20th, 2008, 09:02 AM

I had totally forgotten about Canada until now. :ohno: Thanks for reminding me of our situation. :)

France has gone downhill since Zidane left. He was a major contributer and playmaker.

"Italy and Greece drew 1-1. Must have been a fun match to watch." <<<< This is with sarcasm? Actually, it probably would be good to watch.

Overground

November 20th, 2008, 05:42 PM

It would have been fun for Greek fans in Athens anyway as they held Italy for most of the match and then went ahead to only let one in by Italy a few minutes later. A draw against Italy using their reserve keeper should be a boost for Greek fans.

Plumber73

November 22nd, 2008, 07:52 AM

FYI - Montreal withdraws MLS bid.

http://sports.sympatico.msn.cbc.ca/abc/News/ContentPosting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CBC-SPORTS-V3&showbyline=True&newsitemid=mls-montreal-expansion

In a surprising development, it was revealed Friday that Montreal has rescinded its bid for a Major League Soccer expansion franchise.

In his annual state-of-the-union address ahead of Sunday's MLS Cup final in Los Angeles, league commissioner Don Garber confirmed Montreal had dropped out of the seven-city race to land one of the two expansion franchises that will join the league in 2011.

"They're out for the next round of expansion," Garber said of Montreal. "I don't think it's gone forever but it's gone for now."

The Montreal bid was tabled by Joey Saputo, owner of the Montreal Impact of the United Soccer Leagues First Division, and George Gillett, owner of the NHL's Montreal Canadiens and the part-owner of Liverpool of the English Premier League.

Garber said Montreal's delegation informed him within the past week of possible trouble.

"Montreal has had to evaluate what kinds of private capital they needed to refinance their stadium to fund the expansion fee, and what kind of public support would be available," Garber said.

"I'm not sure they were able to come to terms in this economic environment."

Garber revealed that the league's board of governors met with officials from several other ownership groups that hope to obtain an MLS team, including investors from Ottawa [Eugene Melnyk] and Vancouver [a group that includes NBA star Steve Nash].

Other cities vying for an expansion team are Atlanta, Miami, St. Louis and Portland, Ore.

"Ottawa blew us away," Garber said. "They do give a very focused plan as to where they'd build the stadium. Their presentation was not just about how they were going to build the stadium but how they were going to build the sport."

Garber said Vancouver's presentation was "one of the best I've ever seen, and I was involved in sports expansion in [the NFL]."

But the commissioner warned that expanding into Canada was far from a sure thing, as it might jeopardize the growth of soccer in the United States...

Taller, Better

November 22nd, 2008, 08:10 AM

:eek2::weird::dunno::down::rant:
That is bad news, and very surprising.

Overground

November 22nd, 2008, 08:44 AM

Totally shocked!! I thought they would be a shoe in for sure. What a complete downer for Impact fans....sorry guys. At least this will hopefully increase Vancouver's chances now.

Garber said Vancouver's presentation was "one of the best I've ever seen, and I was involved in sports expansion in [the NFL]." :okay:

isaidso

November 22nd, 2008, 04:53 PM

And Ottawa's.

Steeltown

November 22nd, 2008, 05:57 PM

Balsillie to make another bid for Predators
RIM co-founder to make an offer for 27% of NHL team

Canadian billionaire Jim Balsillie, whose fervent desire to bring another NHL team to Canada has made him the scourge of league officials, is expected to make his third attempt in less than two years to purchase an NHL franchise.

Sources say Mr. Balsillie, the 47-year-old co-founder of the BlackBerry and lifelong hockey fanatic, is considering the final terms of an offer to acquire a 27% minority stake in the Nashville Predators, whose backer filed for bankruptcy last June.

The details and price have mostly been negotiated for the bid, which now rests with Mr. Balsillie to determine whether he wants to go ahead with the risky venture for the team, which has an estimated book value of US$30-million. If he proceeds, sources say a final offer is to be filed for approval with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Northern District of California within a few weeks.

This will be Mr. Balsillie's third attempt to purchase a franchise, and his second effort to go after the Predators, but with this latest bid, the businessman appears to be changing tactics -- and it just might work.

By seeking to purchase a minority stake in an NHL team rather than outright control, he may be demonstrating a willingness to be a team player.

Mr. Balsillie would not comment, but sources say he desperately wants membership in the exclusive sports league and may be willing to play by the NHL's rules, rather than challenge them outright.

It is a dramatic turnaround for the tenacious Canadian businessman with a reputation among some league officials, and particularly league commissioner Gary Bettman, as a one-issue maverick bent on bolstering the Canadian portion of the league.

"I think his way of doing business is in stark contrast to what the Board of Governors is all about. It flies in the face of what Bettman is trying to do," observes Wayne McDonnell Jr., a clinical assistant professor of Sports Management at New York University.

What hasn't changed is Mr. Balsillie's desire to repatriate a team to Canada.

That's why the 27% minority stake is key. If this bid is successful, Mr. Balsillie would become an alternate governor for the team and would be eligible to attend meetings of the NHL's board of governors. The rookie owner could then try to force the Canadian relocation onto the agenda from the table, rather than taking shots from the sidelines.

The NHL is closely monitoring the machinations in the California bankruptcy court and is well aware of Mr. Balsillie's latest move.

"He's certainly free to pursue that interest and we'll play the normal role in approving or considering any new owner," William Daly, NHL deputy commissioner, told the National Post in a recent interview.

"I don't know what's in his mind and I don't know Jim well enough to speculate," Mr. Daly responded when asked about Mr. Balsillie's latest gambit. "Who knows what his motivations are and what he's trying to do and not trying to do."

----

A fiercely passionate hockey fan, who grew up near Peterborough cheering for the Montreal Canadiens, Mr. Balsillie is an intensely focused businessman worth an estimated $1.97-billion.

The co-chief executive of Research in Motion Ltd. has named the Waterloo, Ont.-based company's boardrooms and conference rooms after retired hockey legends Gordie Howe, Maurice Richard, Frank Mahovlich, Bobby Hull, Guy Lafleur, Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky.

"I'm going to get my name on the [Stanley] Cup one way or another," he said when he offered to buy the Pittsburgh Penguins in October, 2006, for US$175-million from a consortium led by NHL all-star Mario Lemieux.

"What Canadian boy wouldn't do it [buy an NHL team] if he could?"

That dream ended bitterly two months later when he withdrew his offer after a dispute over two dozen conditions imposed by the league, including a seven-year prohibition from relocating the team.

Five months later, however, all seemed forgiven. By May, 2007, Mr. Balsillie was in Mr. Bettman's Manhattan office wielding a letter of intent in which he agreed to pay a whopping US$220-million for the Nashville Predators, an ailing U.S. Sun Belt team that Forbes business magazine had valued at half the price.

The NHL commissioner marvelled at the Canadian hockey fan with the deep pockets willing to dole out a princely sum for an ailing franchise in a bid that would raise the market value of the league's other 29 franchises.

That was until Mr. Balsillie began talking publicly about moving the Predators out of Nashville, and relocating the team to Hamilton, Ont. To punctuate the point, he initiated a ticket campaign that attracted over 10,000 paid-season ticket holders, easily trumping the number of seat holders in Nashville.

Mr. Bettman and his associates at NHL's head office seethed, worried that the public musings about relocation and the ticket drive further destabilized the fragile franchise in Nashville, where the league insisted on keeping the team.

After months of backroom manoeuvring, Mr. Balsillie wound up empty handed. His lucrative bid for the Predators was snubbed last year in favour of a community-based group that had tabled an offer US$27-million lower than his.

Hockey fans and pundits in Canada cried foul, claiming the NHL and Mr. Bettman stacked the pads against Mr. Balsillie. Worse for the league, its most loyal customers denounced the NHL as anti-Canadian.

Publicly, league officials dismissed the allegations, while privately they decried Mr. Balsillie as a rich rogue player who defies all the rules.

"What I can say is from our owners' perception that there is a concern that there is a refusal to abide by the proper processes to become an owner in the league," Mr. Daly said of Mr. Balsillie's past attempts at purchasing NHL franchises.

Sources say Mr. Balsillie understands that his chances at restoring his reputation improve significantly as a member of the club rather than an outsider.

The Canadian businessman had attempted to buy the 27% preferred equity stake in the Predators before its financier filed for bankruptcy, but the NHL was lukewarm on the idea. William "Boots" Del Biaggio, the financier for the Tennessee-based franchise, filed for bankruptcy last June amid allegations of fraud, and his minority interest in the NHL club has been part of a liquidation process under the supervision of a court-appointed trustee.

Since then, officials for Mr. Balsillie have travelled to California to meet with the bankruptcy trustee to hammer out details and garner support from the creditors' committee.

The minority stake would make Mr. Balsillie the second-largest owner of the Nashville Predators, giving him a number of contractual rights that would allow him to buy out his co-partners' shares after two years if the team sustains cumulative losses of US$20-million or if it fails to maintain average attendances levels at 14,000 a game or more.

Conversely, Mr. Balsillie could "put" his shares to David Freeman and the rest of the local Nashville-based group of investors -- Predators Holdings LLC -- forcing them to buy him out after two years if the team successfully meets its financial criteria. In other words, Mr. Balsillie could keep his options open and even wait for the opportunity to buy another team as a majority owner.

Still, even if he is successful in court, Mr. Balsillie needs the blessing of NHL Commissioner Mr. Bettman, and the league's 30 governors, which endorse any changes in the ownership of clubs.

Despite the turbulent history, some NHL officials may be ready to forgive the deep-pocketed Canadian businessman, especially with a souring U.S. economy, says Prof. McDonnell.

"Some owners will bite their tongues even though they don't like certain people," he said, "because they believe those people can bring cachet and asset value to the league."

----

Mr. Bettman's game plan is to grow hockey in the United States in non-traditional markets where college football and basketball attract most of the disposable income earmarked for sports.

Since the 56-year-old lawyer from Queens, N.Y. assumed the helm in February, 1993, the NHL has expanded by six teams and all but one (Ottawa) has been located in U.S. cities, most of them in the south.

Mr. Bettman's mandate has also seen two labour disputes which resulted in lockouts, including the cancellation of the entire 2004-05 season.

His march to expand the league's footprint across the United States and away from traditional hockey markets, as well as relocating the NHL's head office to New York from Montreal, has garnered him criticism in Canada.

"It's embarrassing for him when he gets booed by the fans -- they aren't remembering other things he's done for the game," says Prof. McDonnell, who worked as a financial analyst and accountant at Madison Square Garden in New York.

He may be unpopular with the fans, but Mr. Bettman's iron-grip over the league is a sign that most of the 30 team owners and the league's Board of Governors, who appointed him to modernize the league and expand its markets, appear content with his track record.

Under his tutelage, hockey has grown from a business worth hundreds of millions into an estimated US$4-billion a year industry. (Compare that to US$6.5-billion for Major League Baseball and US$7-billion collected annually by the National Football League.)

The six Canadian teams – Toronto Maple Leafs, Montreal Canadiens, Ottawa Senators, Calgary Flames, Edmonton Oilers and Vancouver Canucks – generate just over 30% of the NHL's net revenues.

That figure is buttressed by a national broadcast contract – estimated at just under US$150-million – the league signed with the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. to broadcast the Canadian teams nationally.

Compare that to the estimated US$80-million broadcast deal the NHL has signed in the U.S. with Versus, a cable network with limited branding and reach, to broadcast the 24 American teams.

In both cases, the broadcast revenues are shared by all 30 NHL clubs.

"God Bless the Canadians. The fact that they love hockey so much is great for us, and great for our business," concedes Mr. Daly.

Still, the NHL's deputy chairman, who negotiates the broadcast contracts, maintains that the lucrative Canadian national rights are "not necessarily attributable" to the Canadian clubs.

"It's a reflection of the popularity of the NHL, not the six Canadian clubs. They aren't the ones generating the estimate of TV revenues, it's the National Hockey league that is generating those revenues," he explained. "We look at them as league deals."

None of the six Canadian NHL teams are currently receiving funds as part of the league-wide revenue-sharing assistance program, due in large part because of the stronger Loonie.

The NHL's revenue-sharing pool is comprised of money collected from the top 10 revenue generating clubs and distributed to the league's most financially challenged teams. The 12 clubs currently receiving assistance are U.S.-based teams, most of them located in sunbelt states.

At least half of those teams – Atlanta, Phoenix and Nashville – are struggling financially, despite repeated denials by NHL head office.

Court documents filed in October by the Nashville owners suggest otherwise. Predators Holdings LLC, the partnership group that owns the club, petitioned the California bankruptcy court for damages of up to US$100-million, as a result of Mr. Del Biaggio's bankruptcy without factoring in the effects of a deteriorating U.S. economy.

The group claims the fair market value of the team, which was purchased for US$193-million in December, 2007, has been reduced by 15% -- or US$27-million -- since Mr. Del Biaggio filed for bankruptcy protection. As well, the team calculates an estimated loss of between US$5-million to US$10-million annually – as much as US$50-million in lost revenue – as a result of diminished sponsorships, ticket sales and other revenue streams.

Still, Mr. Daly told the Post the NHL is not concerned about the Predators' financial health, because "there is no apparent stress in terms of [the current owners] meeting their financial obligations to the club."

Some league officials are privately incredulous over the NHL's sanguine view of the slumping economic conditions and are expected to express concern about worsening debt levels of some of the teams at the board of governors meeting next month.

Prof. McDonnell says the NHL's senior brass recognizes there are weak markets but is desperately trying to manage them.

"I think Bettman's thought process on this is if he were to relocate a franchise it would be an admission of failure," he explained.

More importantly, he says the NHL commissioner is determined to avoid setting a precedent by allowing one team to move because others in similar financial straits will want to do the same.

"I am a firm believer that at least one of these struggling U.S. teams should be relocated to Canada," says Prof. McDonnell. "I think the NHL recognizes there are fragile markets but are concerned about setting a trend that they probably can't control in the long term."

At the same time, Mr. Bettman wants to avoid a potential showdown with the NHL's most valuable franchise – the Toronto Maple Leafs, worth US$448-million according to Forbes business magazine – and the Buffalo Sabres.

The league's constitution grants territorial rights to the 30 teams, outlining "each member shall have exclusive territorial rights in the city in which it is located and within 50 miles of that city's corporate limits," known as the club's "home territory."

Teams also have exclusive control over its "home territory," and each club can prohibit hockey games from being played on its turf without their consent.

In other words, existing hockey teams have the right to veto relocation of other clubs within an 80-kilometre radius of their own market.

Confusing matters further is a league bylaw that prohibits relocations, although Mr. Bettman has said a majority vote by the governors could give a team the right to move into another club's turf. But another clause in the NHL constitution says such a move would require a unanimous vote by all the teams.

Thus, Mr. Balsillie's desire to relocate a team to Canada could force the NHL to confront the sensitive issue of enforcing territorial rights.

Rather than risk a messy, internecine battle, the league head office sticks to its mantra of no expansion, no relocation and no contraction.

"We have 30 teams in 30 markets and we're not looking to expand," says Mr. Daly when asked why the NHL has not studied whether southern Ontario could support another franchise. "We're hoping to avoid any need to relocate a franchise and we want to make our franchises as healthy as they can where they are."

After 15 years at the helm of the NHL, Mr. Bettman is protecting his legacy, observes Prof. McDonnell, and "if clubs start relocating, it reflects badly on the teams, its owners, the league and head office and raises questions about Bettman's leadership."

Against this backdrop, Mr. Balsillie is winding up to take another shot.

National Post

Canadian Chocho

November 22nd, 2008, 06:05 PM

I saw the Montreal thing coming. They showed absolutely no enthusiasm in their bid. Unlike Vancouver.

Taller, Better

November 22nd, 2008, 08:20 PM

algonquin

November 22nd, 2008, 08:42 PM

I posted this reply in the Hamilton hockey thread in the Ontario section:

The NHL commissioner marvelled at the Canadian hockey fan with the deep pockets willing to dole out a princely sum for an ailing franchise in a bid that would raise the market value of the league's other 29 franchises.

That was until Mr. Balsillie began talking publicly about moving the Predators out of Nashville, and relocating the team to Hamilton, Ont. To punctuate the point, he initiated a ticket campaign that attracted over 10,000 paid-season ticket holders, easily trumping the number of seat holders in Nashville.

Mr. Bettman and his associates at NHL's head office seethed, worried that the public musings about relocation and the ticket drive further destabilized the fragile franchise in Nashville, where the league insisted on keeping the team.

The NHL commissioner marvelled because he is a certified retard.

Hey Gary... the man is "willing to dole out a princely sum for an ailing franchise" because he intends to make it a successful one, by "moving the Predators out of Nashville, and relocating the team to Hamilton, Ont". It's as clear as being hit in the head with a crystal ball.

Canadian Chocho

November 23rd, 2008, 12:20 AM

But, I am perplexed.. what was the problem?

"Montreal has had to evaluate what kinds of private capital they needed to refinance their stadium to fund the expansion fee, and what kind of public support would be available,"

I can understand if they were not able to secure funding, but I thought public support was a given. What is the average attendance for Impact games at home? Surely they could count on that, and more if they joined MLS.

Maybe Saputo is feeling the the effects of the credit crisis? Plus, 40 million dollars US is more than it was a couple of months ago in Canada.

And then there's the fact that their organization is already quite successful. They are in the champions League Quarter-finals and they already have their own stadium.

Taller, Better

November 23rd, 2008, 08:31 AM

I suppose, but it would be a shame to settle for that. :(

Habfanman

November 23rd, 2008, 10:54 AM

I think that Saputo and Gillett see MLS expansion for what it is: a waste of 50$ million. The league is shaky at best and the talent level doesn't seem to be appreciably better than the USL. Making it to the quarters of CONCACAF is way more awesome than winning the MLS, they've been facing much stiffer competition than anything the MLS puts on the field.

I like what the Impact are doing. They've built a great stadium with natural grass and it sells out every game. The team is half Canadian and 10 of those are local boys developed in the Québec system. Limniatis is a great coach: local guy, played 1st division in Greece, played for the Impact and the Canadian National team, and he's been developing local talent with the Lac St Louis club since 2003.

It would be great to develop a Canadian league but since that will never happen, good luck to Vancouver. But like Pat Hickey says "The MLS needs the Impact more than the Impact needs the MLS." and he said that over 2 weeks ago.

http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=934402

Montreal doesn't need to join MLS
PAT HICKEY , The Gazette
Published: Wednesday, November 05, 2008

Nine cities, including Montreal, are in line to bid for two expansion franchises in Major League Soccer, which, in theory at least, is the height of professional soccer in North America.
The principals in these cities - we're talking Joey Saputo and George Gillett here in Montreal - will be asked to fork over an expansion fee that could be as high as $40 million.
The question everyone should be asking is: What do you get for your money?

Let's start with MLS, which was born out of the soccer fever that surrounded the 1994 World Cup in the United States. Someone mistakenly believed the support for this one-off event was evidence Americans had suddenly developed a passion for the world's most popular game.
But the latest attendance figures show, if anything, popularity for pro soccer in North America is waning. The average attendance at MLS games this past season was 16,459. That's down 1.8 per cent from last season.
Only three teams - the L.A. Galaxy, Toronto FC and DC United - averaged more than 20,000. Ironically, they all missed the playoffs. The San Jose Earthquakes, the latest expansion team, averaged only 13,713. The Kansas City Wizards drew a league-low 10,686, which is about 2,000 less than the Impact drew.
Looking for growth? It's non existent. The average attendance is lower than it was in the league's 1996 inaugural season.
League revenues are up, but you have to wonder how much of the increase comes from selling expansion franchises. At one point, MLS concentrated on strengthening its existing franchises and cautiously added teams. In recent years, it seems to be addicted to expansion, because it knows it can fleece prospective owners.
Why would anyone want to invest in a business that is stagnant at best?
How about a chance to compete against the best?
The MLS comes up short in that area. Four MLS teams competed in the CONCACAF Champions League; two of them fell by the wayside in the preliminary round and the others were eliminated in group play. The United Soccer Leagues, the supposedly weaker league that is home to the Impact, had two teams in Champions League play - the Impact and the Puerto Rico Islanders - and they advanced to the quarterfinals.
There are some impressive big names in MLS like David Beckham, Juan Pablo Angel and Marcello Gallardo, but the Beckham experience has left a lot to be desired. Beckham plays for the Los Angeles Galaxy when he's not playing for England or AC Milan, or watching the Olympic basketball final in Beijing. During his first two seasons in MLS, he has appeared in only 25 of the Galaxy's 60 games.
In a league that has extensive revenue-sharing, MLS should be concerned with attracting cities that have a proven track record of success, which should put Montreal on the top of the list, especially when you consider the success of Toronto FC.
But Montreal might be better off joining Vancouver, Ottawa and some of the other cities seeking MLS franchises and starting a league of their own or shoring up the existing USL. They'd save money on the franchise fees and would be able to give their fans a more affordable product. The threat of such a move might even convince MLS to reduce its exorbitant franchise fee, because the reality is that the MLS needs Montreal more than Montreal needs the MLS.
phickey@thegazette.canwest.com

rick1016

November 23rd, 2008, 12:32 PM

The other night I caught a bit of a soccer game here in Australia. Me and my friend were at the bar watching because that was on the TV. There were a quite few people in the bar, maybe 2 of them were actually watching the game. As expected both were loud, aggressive and obnoxious as hell.

Sorry if that sounded mean...

isaidso

November 23rd, 2008, 04:15 PM

Congratulations Universite Laval. After the game yesterday at Ivor Wynne:
http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq260/isaidso_photos/P1000696.jpg?t=1227453972

Today marks the end of football season with the big show, the 96th Grey Cup. Go Alouettes!

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/2008/05/02/alouettes_logo_400.jpg
http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/2008/05/02/alouettes_logo_400.jpg
And lets get a team in Quebec City for 2011.

Taller, Better

November 23rd, 2008, 04:42 PM

isaidso

November 23rd, 2008, 05:42 PM

It's an interesting development though. The USL is perceived as weaker, but there's certainly merit in recognizing the value of USL and developing it further. Why spend $50 million on something you already have? If Vancouver doesn't get a franchise, maybe Montreal and Vancouver should take on the roll of leaders in the USL, encourage more Canadian teams like Ottawa, and maybe even get the league head office moved to Montreal.

If the NHL can move its head office out of Canada and to New York, the USL can do the same. You never know, we might end up with the MLS stagnating because of apathy in most US markets, and see TFC eventually apply for membership in USL. Stranger things have happened.

Taller, Better

November 23rd, 2008, 05:49 PM

I see that the average attendance at USL games is 5,164, and Montreal leads the USL in attendance at 11,554. Pat Hickey says in his article that popularity for pro soccer in North America is waning, but it could also be said he is exaggerating a bit, as attendance at MLS only marginally changed in 2007 to an average of 16,459 which was slightly off from the previous year’s 16,770. A drop of 311 people per average per game might not necessarily warrant a description of waning support. Waning support, if it is a real trend, will affect both of these professional leagues. It is certainly premature to predict the end of MLS.

isaidso

November 23rd, 2008, 06:57 PM

True, I found that statement regarding waning support inaccurate also. A better assessment would be for the Impact to recognize the relative strength of their team and market. They've proven their skill on the field and their strength at the gate.

Perception in sport seems to be very important with fans. It will be interesting to see if the Impact's attendance spikes higher now that people are starting to see the USL on an equal footing with MLS.

TFC, the Impact, and the Whitecaps all have solid fan bases and seem very well managed. Soccer is drawing better in Canada than down south. If there is waning support it is in US markets. This might bode well for the development of pro soccer in Canada beyond just the large cities.

Taller, Better

November 23rd, 2008, 07:13 PM

Well, the leagues are both relatively young and we will have to wait and see if North American support of soccer is just a flash in the pan. I think it is probably wiser to just sit back and watch it all shake out over the next few years rather than jump to the conclusion Pat Hickey has a crystal ball next to his laptop.

Habfanman

November 23rd, 2008, 07:35 PM

Pat Hickey isn't predicting anything he's just pointing out that a 40$ million US expansion fee is a little steep for a league in which: 13 of 16 teams are losing money, attendance has been down since 1996 and for which financial health seems dependant on fees generated by rapid expansion.

CONCACAF is the real prize and it's been demonstrated that you don't need the MSL to succeed at that level. In fact, no MSL team has been successful at that level whereas 2 USL teams have.

Taller, Better

November 23rd, 2008, 07:49 PM

Well, time will tell us why Saputo flip flopped so quickly- it is all still a bit of a bombshell
just yet. If interest in professional soccer in North America proves that it has an initial peak of interest and then fades away then that is not good news for either of the leagues.
In the meantime I hope Vancouver or Ottawa makes it into the MLS. That would be great!

Habfanman

November 23rd, 2008, 08:04 PM

I think that Vancouver should be a shoo-in if MSL isn't tied to its US-first expansion policy. I honestly can't take the Ottawa bid seriously.

It's not Saputo but Gillett, who is currently embroiled in his Liverpool FC fiasco, who is probably balking. Rumour has it that he has lined up a buyer at 1$ billion and he will extricate himself from that mess by January.

Canadian Chocho

November 23rd, 2008, 08:46 PM

I'm rooting for Vancouver but I'm not going to lie. I am liking the thought of Ottawa a bit more every single day.

Taller, Better

November 23rd, 2008, 08:50 PM

Vancouver has the potential market, and might be a very successful candidate if their financing is solid. I just hope one of them gets in, and it does sound like Vancouver has the better chance.

Plumber73

November 23rd, 2008, 10:48 PM

Seattle has 18 thousand season ticket holders for their opening season and Vancouver is at least as supportive as Seattle, which it has shown through the years. The ownership is solid. The stadium has already started renovation. I'm not a big fan of artificial turf, not many soccer fans here are, but apparently we'll be getting the latest stuff. I'm more confident in Vancouver as a franchise as I am in the MLS. The worry I would have is for the number of teams down south that seem to be on shaky ground, and the league crumbling as a result.

Taller, Better

November 24th, 2008, 04:42 AM

There may be a cull, but in the meantime, GO WHITECAPS!!!! The decision of the Impact makes the chances considerably better for Vancouver.

Canadian Chocho

November 24th, 2008, 05:29 AM

CONGRATS TO CALGARY! I kind of wnated Montreal to win but you can't always get what you want.

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/?src=http://www.torontosun.com/sports/2008/11/23/game27.jpg&size=640x480&quality=60

BS1jCfg7Qxc

isaidso

November 24th, 2008, 05:47 AM

I almost lost my voice urging Montreal on, but to no avail. :cry:
The Alouettes hit a brick wall. The better team won. The Stamps were just awesome and their defense outstanding. Good for Burris. Did you see him cry after ward? It's got to feel good to accomplish a 20 year old dream. It's going to be very difficult to get that smile off his face.

Congratulations Calgary, and we know you're going to do Canada proud next year. :applause:
Time to scrub my war paint off.

Taller, Better

November 24th, 2008, 05:59 AM

Lucky you didn't have to don a watermelon on your head! :D

I assume it was a sellout, despite the cold weather?

algonquin

November 24th, 2008, 06:05 AM

Good game, but the half-time show was utter crap, as always.

skyboi

November 24th, 2008, 06:25 AM

Congratulation Calgary ! I hope Calgarians will be back to visist Montreal more from now since they won the Cup here , their feeling for this City will be less intense , going home with a smile is worthy of the trip isn't it , have a nice trip back home folks , I find them very nice while "invading" our City , cheers people :)

Canadian Chocho

November 24th, 2008, 02:15 PM

Lucky you didn't have to don a watermelon on your head! :D

I assume it was a sellout, despite the cold weather?

It was at Olympic stadium.

isaidso

November 24th, 2008, 04:39 PM

Lucky you didn't have to don a watermelon on your head! :D

I assume it was a sellout, despite the cold weather?

I've always wondered about those watermelons. I wonder whether they buy them already hollowed out. That's an awful lot of melon to eat to get a hat.

Olympic Stadium is the largest capacity stadium in Canada and holds 65,255. They can squeeze a few thousand more seats in there when they need to. Attendance for the Grey Cup was 66,308. It's was a sell out, but I believe it's possible to push capacity to 68,000 with a few more sets of temporary bleachers at field level.

The all time attendance record for a sport was 72,000 in 1976 for a soccer game between East Germany and Poland. This capacity is no longer possible without major work done to the stadium. Thousands of seats were taken out after the 1976 Olympics and a giant score board installed behind the end zone on the right. You can see this in the seating plan below.

As you can see, the entire upper bowl seats at the end zone on the right is no longer there. If the bowl was rebuilt all the way around, capacity would jump well beyond 70,000. The 'Bronze' end zone seats on the right were added for the Grey Cup as were other small bits along the perimeter of the field.

http://en.montrealalouettes.com/images/legacy/stadium_olympic_thumb.jpg
http://en.montrealalouettes.com/images/legacy/stadium_olympic_thumb.jpg

Overground

November 24th, 2008, 07:33 PM

skyboi

November 24th, 2008, 09:37 PM

We were lucky the Olympic stadium's roof still there or the spectators would have all got their a**es frozen , it was quite cold last weekend though , what a beautiful stadium it has been !

Overground

November 24th, 2008, 10:48 PM

The Joey Saputo news conference was today in response to their bid being released by MLS or if it was in fact their own doing.

He said that they put in a $45m(US$35m) fee, expansion of Stade Saputo, and strong attendance and team to field as the main part of their bid. MLS was asking for US$40m and all this was supposed to be a part of their bid presentation which was handed into MLS on 15 Oct.

It seems Montreal didn't have the right requirements then and were trying to offer less fee money and supplement it with a better product. Rightfully so, but if MLS can get the same thing from someone like Vancouver or another bid with the right expansion fee money, then that's just the way the business goes.

He also said that some bids didn't even add the expansion fee to their presentation.

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081124.wsptimpact1124/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home

isaidso

November 25th, 2008, 12:03 PM

I thought when seeing Stade Olympique on the news that the roof was open to the elements finally. I didn't realise they painted it on the inside dark blue. When that happened I have no idea but it fooled me.

I just watched the Grey Cup a second time on broadband. That blue roof is deceptive. They did a good job.

Overground

November 25th, 2008, 07:59 PM

Ya it sure is deceptive. I saw some photos of it from other games and the light would reflect off it and make it look shiny but maybe on Sunday they did something so that didn't happen. Very cool idea anyway.

More evaluation of the Montreal MLS bid. Apparently Saputo offered C$45m(= US$35m now) which included the expansion fee AND the stadium expansion costs together. This would fall way short of what MLS wants for the fee, which is US$40m. The expansion costs would have be completely separate of course from the expansion fee. I don't know how Saputo thought this would be acceptable for a bid when there are others willing to pay that fee tommorow. One of them being Vancouver.

Saputo said they could have paid it but didn't think it would be in the best interest of the club.

Taller, Better

November 25th, 2008, 08:40 PM

Well, hopefully now either Vancouver or Ottawa gets in!! :cheers:

isaidso

November 26th, 2008, 06:38 AM

Grey Cup audience of 10 million?

"We set out to deliver unprecedented CFL coverage and we are absolutely thrilled that nearly one in three Canadians – more than 10 million – tuned in to TSN and RDS this week for Grey Cup programming," TSN president Phil King said. "We are extremely proud to be the home of the CFL and we look forward to bringing Canadian sports fans all CFL action and excitement next year."

The tv audience on TSN/RDS was 3.65 million, so I'm assuming they estimated just over 2.5 people/tv? It's an ok number considering that the Grey Cup was on TSN/RDS only for the first time ever and there was no team from Ontario in the playoffs for the first time ever. The move away from CBC meant a reach of 4 million fewer televisions. The 1.215 million viewers on RDS in Quebec also represented the largest television audience in that networks history.

Mark Cohon, the CFL Commissioner, seems to be the leader this league has desperately needed. I watched his speech regarding the state of the league. The mindset, plans, and strategy all seem to be very well thought out and smart. He's a sharp fella and leaving no stone unturned. Pro football fans in Canada should take great comfort that the decades long search for the right leader has been found. I think he has what it takes to make pro football in Canada blossom once again. Maybe a 10 team league for the 100th Grey Cup will be attainable. :cheer:

Taller, Better

November 26th, 2008, 07:05 AM

? The article in the Globe said it was quite a drop in viewing audience from CBC's coverage.

isaidso

November 26th, 2008, 07:16 AM

Yes, I read that one too. The English language audience dropped on TSN compared to the previous year on CBC. The numbers this year were quite bad due to both a move to a network with less of a reach and no Ontario teams in the playoffs, let alone the Grey Cup. The loss of English language audiences was made up by an increase in the French language audience.

The question becomes, will this balance out next year if there are Ontario teams and no Montreal? History seems to say yes. Dissecting the numbers further would suggest that the numbers weren't that bad considering that TSN/RDS is available in 9 million homes vs 13 million for CBC. 40% of homes that were capable of receiving the feed, watched the game.

3.5 to 4 million is what the Grey Cup usually gets, so it was not only in line with recent levels, but good considering the lower availability of the game to Canadian households. The key to the long term success of pro football in Canada may rest with Quebec being able to carry the league with or without the support of people in southern Ontario. Melbourne does it in the Australian Football League. Quebec and the Prairies might have reached the point where they can do the same here. Pro football needs to be able to prosper regardless of the whims of citizens in one city, Toronto.

Taller, Better

November 26th, 2008, 08:19 AM

From what I gather, the drop in TSN viewers was across English speaking Canada, with 200,000 less in Ontario, and a further 260,000 less across the rest of the English speaking country, which seems about proportional to the general population. . Viewership on RDS in Quebec was up due to Montreal being in the game. link to Globe article:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081125.TRUTH25/TPStory/?query=tsn+grey+cup+coverage

TRUTH & RUMOURS: BROADCASTING: TSN

Small audience tunes in to Grey Cup Game

Headshot of William Houston

WILLIAM HOUSTON

whouston@globeandmail.com

November 25, 2008

TSN's first Grey Cup telecast drew one of the lowest television audiences in the history of the CFL championship game.

The 2.439 million people who watched the Calgary Stampeders' win over the Montreal Alouettes is the Cup's second-worst TV audience since 1989.

It was down 27 per cent from the CBC's 3.337 million a year ago for Winnipeg Blue Bombers-Saskatchewan Roughriders.

The only audience worse was the CBC's 1.628 million for a Blue Bomber rout of the Edmonton Eskimos in 1990.
Print Edition - Section Front

Section S Front Enlarge Image
The Globe and Mail

TSN faced several challenges.

Calgary-Montreal was not a great matchup for English-language television.

The game was dull.

TSN's playoff audience results, leading up to the game, were poor.

Audiences for the division semi-finals and finals were down significantly, because the games aired on Saturday rather than Sunday, and the two southern Ontario teams were not involved.

And TSN, a cable channel, couldn't match the broadcast distribution of the CBC, which is available in 13 million households compared with TSN's nine million.

The audience, though poor by Grey Cup standards, was substantial for TSN. But it wasn't close to a record.

The network has drawn more than three million for several world junior hockey championship gold-medal games.

The good news for TSN was viewership on RDS, its French language companion channel.

The RDS telecast was watched by 1.215 million, a Grey Cup record for the network. Viewers tuned in because the Als were playing. There was also the factor of hometown pride. The game was played in Montreal.

Taken together, the TSN-RDS audience, the total Canadian viewership, was 3.615 million, slightly more than the combined CBC-RDS audience of 3.539 million in 2007.

Last year, RDS drew only 200,000 for Bombers-Roughriders.

TSN president Phil King attributed the weak audience in English Canada to the participation of the Alouettes, which have a strong following in Quebec, but less so in the rest of the country.

He said he was pleased with the overall result because English-French language viewership together surpassed last year's total.

"We're happy," he said. "The total audience is up. It doesn't really matter from TSN's point of view what the mix is."

Still, the TSN audience is not good news for the CFL, which chose TSN over the CBC in a five-year rights agreement that started this year.

The audience figure could affect TSN's advertising rates for the 2009 Grey Cup.

The CFL won't be touched in the short term. Its rights fees are guaranteed. However, if Grey Cup audiences stay at this level over the next four years, the league will have difficulty maintaining the present rights fee of about $16-million for regular season and playoff games plus the Grey Cup in the next negotiation.

Despite the low audience, sports TV executives yesterday praised the quality of the telecast.

"I thought they did a very good job of production," one said. "The director, Paul Hemming, did a great job."

One criticism was TSN ending the postgame coverage at 9:30 p.m. Last year, the CBC stayed past 10 p.m. and provided locker room interviews.

another article from the Toronto Star: link:
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/542808

TELEVISION
TheStar.com | Sports | Grey Cup ratings a mixed bag

Grey Cup ratings a mixed bag

Sunday's Grey Cup game was a big hit in French Canada, but not so much in the rest of the country and certainly not in Ontario.

According to overnight BBM-Nielsen ratings, a per-minute average of 3.65 million viewers watched the Calgary Stampeders defeat the Montreal Alouettes 22-14 on TSN and French-language RDS.

That represents a 5 per cent increase over what CBC and RDS drew together last year.

RDS, which is in 2.6 million homes, attracted the largest football audience in its history with 1.2 million viewers.

But TSN's audience of 2.439 million was down 21 per cent from the 2.9 million CBC attracted last year for the Saskatchewan-Winnipeg final. They were 23 per cent below the 2006 Canadian Football League final, the last time Montreal was in the Grey Cup.

It was also the smallest English-language audience since 2001.

But TSN president Phil King isn't concerned about the drop in the English audience.

``It was pretty much what we expected," King said, who added TSN's record this year proves that a specialty channel can attract large numbers of viewers.

"More Canadians watched the game than last year and our season ratings were up over last season," King said. ``We're very pleased with our first year (of exclusivity) and hope to build on that next year."

Despite the drop in English audience, ratings in the key 18-34 age group rose 17 per cent.

The biggest drop in Grey Cup ratings came in Ontario, with more than 200,000 viewers below last year's total. That was no doubt partly due to the poor performance of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and Toronto Argonauts.

Chris Zelkovich

isaidso

November 26th, 2008, 10:21 PM

Overall Grey Cup television audience is up from 2007, but only by 76,000

Taken together, the TSN-RDS audience, the total Canadian viewership, was 3.615 million, slightly more than the combined CBC-RDS audience of 3.539 million in 2007. Hopefully, they can build on this increase and get close to that 4 million mark next year.

The key will be to hold onto as many of those RDS viewers as possible, and increased subscription rates to TSN/RDS. I'm still not convinced that going from a network that 13 million households receive, to one that 9 million receive is a wise strategy. You're bound to see a drop when you decrease your availability by 30%. Quebec numbers managed to make up for the drop because Montreal was in the final. Outside of Quebec, the move to a smaller tv network did a lot of damage. I liked the TSN broadcast, but you've eliminated 4 million potential households right across the country.

It's a good sign that overall numbers still managed to rise, despite the network change, and despite Ontario.

algonquin

November 27th, 2008, 08:22 AM

We were lucky the Olympic stadium's roof still there or the spectators would have all got their a**es frozen , it was quite cold last weekend though , what a beautiful stadium it has been !

it is gorgeous. That's the first time I've seen the inside.

Taller, Better

November 27th, 2008, 08:36 AM

Does anyone have a colour photo of the roof? I'm dying to see it. I think the Big O is beautiful.

Steeltown

November 27th, 2008, 02:23 PM

Money talks, not Balsillie
NHL warms to outspoken billionaire but in a matter of partial ownership

November 27, 2008
Steve Milton
The Hamilton Spectator

It's becoming obvious that Jim Balsillie will get his National Hockey League team.

The three major questions are: 'Where?' 'When?' And, 'How do we do it?, and still save face for Gary Bettman?'

Consider how quickly the schmozzle with La Presse disappeared last week.

The Montreal paper reported that the Waterloo billionaire had said the Canadiens were for sale. Balsillie denied that he had said it, and Habs' owner George Gillet, who was initially angry, then jumped vigorously to Balsillie's defence.

No other NHL governors -- and not even Bettman -- commented, and the controversy fizzled. Had this happened a year ago, NHL owners and their head office would still be slinging public mud northward.

That's one example of how big chunks of the league power structure have warmed to Balsillie, but there are other examples, most of them behind the scenes.

One scenario at play, of course, involves the bankruptcy hearings which include Boots Del Biaggio's suspiciously-financed 27 per cent ownership in the Nashville Predators.

Reports have linked Balsillie to the purchase of those shares. But the U.S. bankruptcy trustee is still deciding whether the shares are transferrable without the approval of the buyer by the Nashville ownership group and, ultimately, the NHL. That decision could take another few months and, given the past history of Balsillie and the Preds, approval would likely take much more time, if it came at all.

But the process, and positive comments from the likes of former NHL board chairman Harley Hotchkiss, indicate that the league likes the idea of Balsillie taking a partial share and playing nice with the other boys before he gets his own team. That was their plan for Del Biaggio, incidentally.

Still, it's unlikely Balsillie is putting all his eggs in the Preds' basket. He doesn't need to: there are too many other teams for sale, and the Nashville knot could take forever to unravel.

Florida, Atlanta or Phoenix may be available sooner. A few other teams have also contacted Balsillie in the past year.

And what of Buffalo? There has been no public confirmation that Tom Golisano wants out of the Sabres, but The Spec reported several months ago that there were preliminary rumblings he was thinking about selling the team he rescued from the junk heap.

Those rumblings have not gone away, especially with the economic downturn. Buffalo is a lot closer to Waterloo/Hamilton than Pittsburgh is, and Balsillie made a viable offer to buy the Pens 19 months ago.

Taller, Better

November 27th, 2008, 04:59 PM

Interesting. I guess you have to be rock solid financially with tons-'o-cash to get into the glamour business of owning a professional team, which Balsillie obviously is. The NHL might have no choice but to warm to him, as other potential suitors, and some existing team owners are finding the heat in the kitchen too intense.

Overground

November 27th, 2008, 06:59 PM

Does anyone have a colour photo of the roof? I'm dying to see it. I think the Big O is beautiful.

Here you go TB. I must say it's quite difficult to find some good photos out there. On tv the roof didn't look quite as shiny as you will see in these photos.

http://i34.tinypic.com/3146mpd.jpg
CTV

http://calgary.ctv.ca/gallery/html/CGY_stamps_greycup_081125/photo_8.html

http://flickr.com/photos/cdnboyfotos/3063164696/in/set-72157610219112010/

http://flickr.com/photos/15400634@N05/3059542179/

http://www.greycupfestival.com/index.php/article/objective-68-400-fans photo from earlier this year

Taller, Better

November 27th, 2008, 07:05 PM

Well, that is a very nice colour for a roof! Thanks for the picture! :)
by the way, the photo itself is stellar..

koolio

November 27th, 2008, 11:27 PM

Does anyone have any renders of the new Rexall Centre in Edmonton?

isaidso

November 28th, 2008, 01:02 AM

Thank god they didn't snap the cup off this time. Those boys can get a little rough.

algonquin

November 28th, 2008, 04:14 AM

Still, it's unlikely Balsillie is putting all his eggs in the Preds' basket. He doesn't need to: there are too many other teams for sale

Woo hoo! He's going to buy several teams. Lets plop one in Kitchener, one in Waterloo, one team at each major intersection along Yonge Street, and one for Hamilton. :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

habsfan

November 28th, 2008, 05:34 AM

Woo hoo! He's going to buy several teams. Lets plop one in Kitchener, one in Waterloo, one team at each major intersection along Yonge Street, and one for Hamilton. :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Patience! Within the next 2 years, I'm willing to bet that there will be 2 to 3 teams that will go under...or their owners will look to dump the team...Balsillie can just pick them up at that moment(and at a reasonable price!)

Steeltown

November 28th, 2008, 06:18 AM

Which is why it's important for Balsillie to become a member of the NHL Board of Governors, even if he only owns 27% of the Predators. He'll get inside information and be the first to obtain a team.

Canadian Chocho

November 28th, 2008, 05:02 PM

Well, that is a very nice colour for a roof! Thanks for the picture! :)
by the way, the photo itself is stellar..

rs73tAA6KJs

Taller, Better

November 28th, 2008, 09:24 PM

^^ nice, chocho!

mr.x

November 30th, 2008, 01:01 PM

new rendering from the BC Place Stadium site:

football mode - 60,000
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/images/roofinterior.jpg

soccer mode - 22,000
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/newsreleases/WC_Vision_2011.jpg

posted by leftcoaster at ssp:
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/3752/bcplacenightlightdn5.jpg

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/1705/1865432ty8.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/245/1654213uv6.jpg

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/9280/1765432fo5.jpg

isaidso

November 30th, 2008, 08:27 PM

^^ Looks good except for that new white mid rise in the 2nd last pic.

Yellow Fever

December 3rd, 2008, 08:27 AM

Ownership group for Major League Soccer in Vancouver reconsiders franchise fee

By Bruce ConstantineauDecember 2, 2008 8:00 PMBe the first to post a comment

VANCOUVER — Should we pay or should we go?

That's the question facing the Vancouver Whitecaps and five other ownership groups bidding for two Major League Soccer franchises as a global recession forces them to reconsider the $40-million US franchise fee.

A Montreal bid from the Saputo and Gillett families was rejected by MLS two weeks ago because they wanted to pay less than $40 million.

A SportsBusiness Journal report this week said the Vancouver group won't fully commit to the expansion fee until $350 million Cdn is secured for the renovation of BC Place Stadium.

However, former Yahoo! executive and Vancouver bid applicant Jeff Mallett stressed the group is confident that planned renovations will proceed at BC Place, making it MLS-ready by the time the Whitecaps begin play there in 2011.

He said his group still expects to pay a $40-million fee if it is selected to join the league. Toronto FC paid a $10 million franchise fee three years ago while Seattle and Philadelphia paid $30 million each to begin play in 2009 and 2010, respectively.

"We know the league is looking for $40 million and we respect that," Mallett said in an interview. "All our financial modelling has been done around the $40 million.

"When it gets down to the final face-to-face meetings, both sides will look at all things considered and make the appropriate move at that time."

Mallett is part of a four-person ownership group headed by Whitecaps owner Greg Kerfoot, along with NBA star Steve Nash and Boston Celtics part-owner Steve Luczo. Other cities bidding for franchises include Portland, Ottawa, St. Louis, Miami and Atlanta.

Uncertainty around the $40-million franchise fee appears to be growing as the St. Louis bid group is reportedly okay with the fee as long as credit markets improve. The Miami bid group indicated it would pay $40 million as long as no one else pays less.

MLS senior vice-president of marketing Dan Courtemanche said the league has no plans to cut the fee.

"Clearly with trying economic conditions, it's a concern for every business as to how they're investing their dollars," he said. "But we still have more interest in MLS expansion now than at any other point in our history.

"The groups understand the fee and they are moving forward under those guidelines."

Courtemanche said the fee is based on several factors, including the $30 million paid by Seattle and Philadelphia and the fact that a 50-per-cent interest in the MLS Houston Dynamo recently sold for more than $22.5 million.

The franchise bidding process has clearly hit a few bumps, with the departure of the Montreal bid and a demand from Miami bidders FC Barcelona and Marcelo Claure that if selected, they be allowed to begin play in 2010 instead of 2011.

Courtemanche said the league would be flexible on that issue.

"If we have the right ownership group with the right facility in the right market, we'll go when they have the best chance for success, whether it's 2010 or 2011," he said.

The Whitecaps have signed a letter of intent to play in a renovated BC Place for five years, starting in 2011, but a formal lease has not yet been completed.

Stadium owner PavCo plans to spend $65 million renovating the stadium before the 2010 Olympics and then an estimated $200 million-plus on a retractable roof, using the same technology found at Commerzbank Arena in Frankfurt, Germany.

PavCo president Warren Buckley said it's too early to determine the final cost of the roof project.

"I don't know the number yet. We haven't even gone out to tender," he said. "We're about 60- to 65-per-cent done on the design and hope to tender the steel and the fabric by early 2009. We haven't even had a speculative number from the engineers."

Buckley said the business case for the roof project must be approved by the province based on final costs and the value of the land to be developed around the stadium.

bconstantineau@vancouversun.com

Canadian Chocho

December 4th, 2008, 12:12 AM

uh oh

Overground

December 4th, 2008, 03:59 AM

Completely misleading article and I'm totally not suprised considering it's the Vancouver Sun/Canwest Global. Inferior journalism strikes again. God they suck.

However, former Yahoo! executive and Vancouver bid applicant Jeff Mallett stressed the group is confident that planned renovations will proceed at BC Place, making it MLS-ready by the time the Whitecaps begin play there in 2011.

He said his group still expects to pay a $40-million fee if it is selected to join the league. Toronto FC paid a $10 million franchise fee three years ago while Seattle and Philadelphia paid $30 million each to begin play in 2009 and 2010, respectively.

"We know the league is looking for $40 million and we respect that," Mallett said in an interview. "All our financial modelling has been done around the $40 million.

Yellow Fever

December 4th, 2008, 07:15 AM

BC Place should be Major League Soccer-ready for 2011 season: PavCo

By Bruce Constantineau

December 3, 2008 9:01 PM

VANCOUVER — Don't worry, Vancouver Whitecaps.

Recession or no recession, BC Place stadium should be Major League Soccer-ready by the start of the 2011 season, retractable roof and all.

That was the word Wednesday from PavCo chair David Podmore, who expects to know the final price tag of the roof project by mid-January, with provincial cabinet approval expected soon after.

An upgraded BC Place stadium is crucial to the Whitecaps' bid for an MLS franchise to begin play in 2011.

A $65 million improvement to the stadium's interior is due for completion by November 2009, while work on an estimated $200 million-plus retractable roof, if approved, would begin in April 2010 and finish by the spring of 2011.

Questions about the viability of the roof project have arisen as the project's business plan calls for more than $100 million to be recovered through the sale and lease of development sites near the stadium.

However, the economic slowdown has clearly affected development activity throughout Metro Vancouver, with work halted or delayed on several projects.

Podmore said he's not worried about the impact of a recession, noting PavCo can delay the sale or lease of the development sites until the market recovers.

"I'm not concerned because we're talking about a program that's going to refurbish this stadium for 40 years," Podmore said. "If we take the land to the market in 24 months instead of six months, it doesn't kill the business proposition.

"I'm very optimistic we'll have strong [government] support for this."

Development plans for two major land parcels near the stadium call for up to 1.4 million square feet of new residential and commercial space to be built, including a maximum of 700,000 square feet of residential space.

"We would have mixed retail and entertainment uses on the rest of the site," Podmore said. "We want to get uses in that enliven and bring activity to the stadium area."

The stadium's interior renovation project already approved by the province includes improved access for disabled people, 35 refurbished suites and seven new suites and renovated concessions, washrooms, dressing rooms and general public areas.

Podmore said PavCo will soon award a separate contract for seismic upgrading and other work to prepare the stadium to receive the new roof.

He said design work on the roof project should be finished by January, after which PavCo will put out a tender for all the roof components - including steel, cables, castings, fittings and mechanisms for opening and closing the roof.

bconstantineau@vancouversun.com

Taller, Better

December 4th, 2008, 08:21 AM

The mist is clearing.... From today's Globe. link:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081203.GILLETT03/TPStory/?query=habs+could+feel+ripple+effects+of+owner%27s+loan

HOCKEY: NHL: CANADIENS
Habs could feel ripple effects of owner's loan
Gillett borrows $75-million against another sports asset, which might lead to pressure on storied NHL team

SEAN GORDON AND PAUL WALDIE

December 3, 2008

MONTREAL and TORONTO -- Montreal Canadiens owner and Colorado-based debt-financing king George Gillett is engaged in another financial high-wire act that could have an impact on Canada's most storied hockey franchise.

According to a lien filed in Delaware, Gillett has taken out a high-interest, $75-million (all currency U.S.) personal loan from a U.S.-based private investment fund, putting up his heavily-leveraged share of British soccer giant Liverpool Football Club as collateral.

Though the loan doesn't directly involve Gillett's separate ownership of the Canadiens, it's clear that the global credit crunch is having an impact on his other businesses, and could well splash onto the NHL team, which continues to carry an estimated $240-million in arena debt.

If Gillett's other interests begin to collapse, it will heap added financial pressure on the Canadiens and concert revenues from the Bell Centre, and only fuel speculation over his continued ownership.

The Globe and Mail

As someone who also counts dozens of car dealerships and several up-market ski resorts to his name, Gillett may be in the wrong businesses at the wrong time.

That Gillett would seek the loan from a relatively obscure lender rather than a well-established bank illustrates the difficulty many monied, but leveraged investors are having raising capital.

It also shows he's keen enough to have the money that he's willing to incur steep interest costs, which could rise to as high as 19 per cent.

The five-year loan is from a Virginia-based company called Mill Financial, and was taken out on Jan. 25, 2008, according to the documents.

As security for the loan, Gillett's company, Delaware-incorporated Gillett Football LLC, pledged all of its "right, title and interest in Football Investments LLC," the documents show.

Gillett owns his 50-per-cent stake in Liverpool through Football Investments.

A spokesman for Gillett declined to comment on either the loan or his overall financial picture.

Though speculation was rampant in sports business circles earlier this year that Gillett was interested in taking on a partner, that talk has been strenuously denied, as have suggestions he is interested in selling the team outright (most recently floated in a newspaper interview quoting technology billionaire Jim Balsillie). "I don't know who would want to invent such a story," Gillett said of the rumours last month.

But it's clear Gillett is among the many NHL owners facing stormy financial seas because of the economic downturn.

Hockey industry sources say at least three other teams - the Florida Panthers, Tampa Bay Lightning and the Phoenix Coyotes - have recently taken out high-interest loans with distress lenders or private equity funds because of tightening credit in the United States.

But unlike most of his NHL peers, Gillett is an old hand when it comes to complicated, debt-laden financial deals.

Whether it was buying into his first sports team - the Miami Dolphins, at 28 - or using the money from his sale of the Harlem Globetrotters to buy a meatpacking plant, Gillett has rarely been afraid to spend money to make money.

In 1991, Gillett's businesses - then focused largely on ski resorts and television stations - went bankrupt after defaulting on $983-million in junk bonds.

The next year he filed for personal bankruptcy, giving his $5-million classic car collection to a creditor to settle a debt and selling his 250,000-acre ranch in Oregon. (He also had to buy his clothes back from the bankruptcy trustee.) Since then, Gillett has rebuilt his fortune, and bought into two of the world's most legendary sports teams.

Gillett and his partner Tom Hicks, who also owns the Dallas Stars and baseball's Texas Rangers, are in hock to the tune of more than $600-million over their purchase of Liverpool, and are facing mounting pressure from supporters to sell.

For the time being, the Canadiens and the Bell Centre, which Gillett bought in 2001 for roughly $180-million, are probably the strongest businesses in the Gillett empire.

But with the Canadiens spending $11.5-million annually on revenue sharing and the Canadian dollar sliding fast, the NHL team is bracing for difficult times.

Gillett is running into challenges at some of his other holdings as well.

Last year he sold his interest in Swift & Co., a Colorado-based meat company that had only one profitable quarter in four years.

The sale came a few months after U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents raided Swift plants in six states and arrested more than 1,200 workers for having fake identification. Gillett bought the company in 2002 along with a private equity firm.

Gillett is also a car lover and last year he became the majority owner of a NASCAR team.

"Racing is in my blood," Gillett said at the time, noting his family's long history in the auto business.

But the team - Gillett Evernham Motorsports - is now in a state of flux.

A couple of weeks ago, Gillett's partner, former NASCAR champion Ray Evernham, said he wants to sell his 20-per-cent interest.

A spokeswoman for the team said yesterday that Evernham has had discussions with potential buyers but has yet to cut a deal.

Times are tough for NASCAR, in general, as the U.S. auto industry runs out of gas. Sponsorships are drying up and several teams have already announced plans to scale back (it costs roughly $25-million annually to run a competitive car). The Gillett Evernham team drives Chrysler cars but is trying to cut a deal with Toyota.

The Sports Business Journal reported this week that Mill Financial's parent company, Springfield Financial, is selling the $75-million note - which is subject to an interest rate as high as 19 per cent - and that it's expected that will be done by mid-month.

Citing anonymous sources, the publication said Gillett and a group of investors are negotiating to acquire the debt, as is another entity seeking control of Gillett's slice of Liverpool, which would presumably be available if he were to default on the loan.

Even if he doesn't succeed in acquiring the note, Gillett has the possibility of paying it off - assuming he can come up with the liquid cash - by Jan. 25, the magazine said.

habsfan

December 4th, 2008, 09:22 PM

NOt really worried about this. Gillett has made aprox 80 millions$ with the Habs in teh past 3 years.(and we missed the playoffs that first year). If he sells anything, it,ll be Liverpool. His business relationship with Hicks has been strained since the beginning...and the people in Liverpool, don't like having an American as the owner of their team... and we are the ones who are supposed to be racist???

Overground

December 6th, 2008, 01:54 AM

News broke last night that Honda is out of Formula 1 due to the economic situation. McLaren, Ferrari, and Toyota are committed they've said. McLaren Mercedes said they have financially solid foundations and is in large part financed by sponsoring partners.

Honda is pulling out of Formula One, blaming the world economic crisis for plans to sell its team.

The decision leaves Englishman Jenson Button and 2009 team-mate Rubens Barrichello without drives, with only a few mid-ranking seats still available.

Honda, which spent more than £300m a year on F1, said it would also no longer supply the sport with engines.

The team say they are optimistic they will find a buyer who will enable them to continue in the sport.

Chief executive Nick Fry said he has had three approaches already.

But a deadline of January has been set to find an investor and workers at Honda's Brackley base have been told to expect redundancy letters before Christmas.

"Honda Motor Co. has come to the conclusion that we will withdraw from all Formula One activities, making 2008 the last season for participation," said Honda president Takeo Fukui at an emotional press conference.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7766092.stm

Canadian Chocho

December 6th, 2008, 07:39 PM

^^ damn!

These are the new TFC kits for 2009. I like the gray one.

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/images/2008/12/04/chLk7WI2.jpg

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/images/2008/12/04/BbzFhDor.jpg

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/6f/cf/d7d0e08e444b9fe3d7fafb0a922f.jpeg

Overground

December 6th, 2008, 10:40 PM

It could be worse and it could be better. This is exactly what Adidas designers have been doing lately, being mediocre. I like the grey better. The long sleeve stripes being cut off at the elbow is one of the worst things I've seen in a kit.

habsfan

December 8th, 2008, 05:16 PM

NO mention of the NFL Game at the Skydome last night?

Taller, Better

December 8th, 2008, 05:23 PM

I actually watched some of it on tv! I was kind of rooting for Buffalo, but it was interesting watching a football game, as I had not watched one in years. Was filthy cold yesterday at -12c, and despite a sold out crowd at the Raptor's game around the corner they did have a near capacity crowd (52,134 with capacity at 54,000). The cheerleaders were glitzy and cheesy! :D
A fair number complained how expensive the tickets were, but that is due to the fact Rogers has to pay to the Bills almost $10,000,000 PER GAME held at the Skydome, which adds an extra whack to each ticket. They have paid $78,000,000 for the series of games.

Habfanman

December 8th, 2008, 09:29 PM

They probably could have filled the stands with all the AGCO liquor inspectors that were no doubt on hand to control the "fun"!

It's the tailgating, stupid
Buffalo can offer NFL fans one thing Toronto can't

Last Updated: Sunday, December 7, 2008 | 11:12 PM ET

Comments6Recommend20
By Jesse Campigotto CBC Sports
Somebody get this guy a six-buck beer. (Nathan Denette/Canadian Press)
Toronto, be careful what you wish for.

You say you want an NFL team? Well, you took one out for a test drive Sunday and it turned out to be a real lemon.

Buffalo's drab 16-3 loss to the Miami Dolphins in the first of five regular season appearances through 2012 at Rogers Centre should teach you what we Bills fans already knew: if someday you're able to lure the team to Toronto on a permanent basis, you won't get your money's worth.

Unless you happen to own the team, in which case you'll be able to make boatloads more loonies than you ever could in economically trampled Buffalo.

But what would a fan of the Toronto Bills get? You found out Sunday.

Arm-and-a-leg ticket prices (upwards of $180 plus taxes for the average ducat).

J.P. Losman (a vintage performance by the hapless former No. 1 quarterback: 13-of-27 passing with an interception and three fumbles).

Coach Dick Jauron (the kind of guy who wouldn't double down with an 11 against a six).

Left tackle Jason Peters (the new world-record holder for the fastest transition from most underrated to most overrated player in football).

There's one thing you won't get, though. And it might just be the thing that keeps Buffalo fans flocking to suburban Orchard Park despite the perennially mediocre roster, the 10 consecutive seasons without a playoff berth and the four straight Super Bowl losses (we all totally miss those days, by the way).

To borrow from an old Bill Clinton campaign mantra, It's the tailgating, stupid.

Strolling the area around the Rogers Centre before Sunday's game was to witness Toronto at its corporate, capitalistic, conservative lamest. Three hours before kickoff — a time when the air outside Ralph Wilson Stadium is thick with the smell of barbecued meat and the sound of drunken revelry — the streets were only slightly busier than on a normal church day.

Thanks to Ontario's strict liquor laws and a lack of plentiful, affordable outdoor parking, the former SkyDome is woefully unequipped to offer anything remotely resembling even a serviceable NFL game-day experience.

So instead of cracking open the trunk and pulling out the lawn chairs, portable grill and cooler of Duty Free beer for a full day of tailgating festivities, you're forced to make do with something called the Budweiser "Tailgate" Party (quotation marks are mine, and they should be around "party" as well).

Set up on a vacant lot at a semi-out of the way street corner a couple blocks north of the Rogers Centre, this glorified beer garden's main attraction was an impossibly irritating Jim Kelly. The hall of fame quarterback — who the Bills still haven't replaced, and yes, I'm looking at you, Trent Edwards — was perched on one of those hastily constructed concert stages attempting to jack up the sparse gathering of onlookers with some sort of ill-conceived trivia contest.

From what I could gather, the answer to every question was "Jim Kelly."

The makeshift setup, shivering spectators and general lack of intoxication was reminiscent of those tedious alcohol-free outdoor New Year's Eve shows I attended as a youngster in my hometown of Niagara Falls, Ont., and always hated (expect for that year when Glass Tiger totally rocked it).

Clearly, I was out of my element. Ah, but ice-cold Budweiser was on sale. How bad could it be? Well, it got worse when the girl working the fridge informed me cans of Bud were going for a wildly un-American six bucks a pop.

Not that there weren't signs of a real Bills tailgate. The bone-chilling temperature (minus-20 C when you factored in the chill from the whipping wind) was so Western New York, and plenty of fans walked around in Bills jerseys — including the requisite blockhead sporting a "Simpson 32" in spite of (or maybe because of) O.J.'s recent prison sentence.

But the plusses fell far short of the minuses, including the abundance of smug Miami fans (they actually have a shot at the playoffs) strutting around in Dolphins gear without fear of reprisal.

Was it enough to bring a lifelong Buffalo fan to tears? I swear that was the wind in my eyes, but I know one thing: this was a sad day in the history of the Bills, no matter where they end up.

Jesse Campigotto was born and raised in Niagara Falls, Ont., and now lives in Toronto, where friends continue to insist he lose the Cheektowaga accent.

Steeltown

December 8th, 2008, 10:02 PM

Looks like Buffalo could lose the Sabres as well......

Would Sabres deal include Hamilton?
Report says Buffalo courting Balsillie

December 08, 2008
Steve Milton
http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/478827

A report out of Rochester says that the Buffalo Sabres are for sale and that preliminary talks have been held between Sabres’ representatives and Jim Balsillie.

Further, it is suggested, those exploratory talks have also included discussions about some Sabres games being played at Copps Coliseum, should Balsillie buy the team.

The Spectator has reported for several months now that the Sabres are likely for sale. Rochester TV station WROC says on its web site today that a story to appear in Thursday’s edition Western New York Hockey magazine will cite unnamed sources about “talks in the exploratory stage” and that “prices are being discussed” with Sabres owner Tom Golisano.

Reached in his car as he was returning from Montreal this morning, Richard Rodier - Balsillie’s spokesman and lawyer on hockey matters - told The Spectator that he could not immediately comment on the story-about-a-story, “because I don’t know enough about what that story says.”

Rodier’s camp has repeatedly denied to The Spectator that they are going to, or are even seriously investigating the possibility of, purchasing the Sabres.

Other sources have told The Spectator on several occasions that the Sabres’ lease at HSBC Arena is airtight and the team could never be moved, because three different levels of government would have to approve.

TSN reports that Sabres minority owner Larry Quinn denies the report.

"We're not selling the team, we're not moving the team to Hamilton, there is absolutely nothing going on," said Quinn who is, in effect, the managing partner of the team and is also rumoured to be the point man in any sales discussions.

Golisano rescued the Sabres from bankruptcy five years ago, for perhaps as low as $20 million. In the current battered local and international economy the club is likely worth under $200 million, perhaps significantly less, but it has enjoyed renewed success at the gate since the NHL lockout of 2004-05.

However, the salary cap which was designed to protect smaller markets such as Buffalo and Edmonton has risen steadily since then. That has meant that the salary floor - the minimum amount a team must spend on player salaries - has risen proportionately and the Sabres are now obliged by the collective bargaining agreement to spend more on player costs than they were spending before the lockout.

Golisano is said to be among several owners who are concerned about those rising costs. In the past two years, he has not been as visible around the team’s home games as often as he was in the previous two years, further fuelling speculation he was prepared to sell.

Ironically, the Sabres play in Pittsburgh tonight. The Penguins were the first team Balsillie made a formal offer to buy, but the tentative deal fell through when the NHL added several provisions which Balsillie found untenable.

He is still interested in purchasing the 27 per cent share of the Nashville Predators which--depending upon the eventual ruling by the judge in the bankruptcy proceedings of now-indicted William “Boots” Del Biaggio—could be for on the market by early spring.

Taller, Better

December 8th, 2008, 10:10 PM

I had no idea the Sabres were for sale!

Canadian Chocho

December 9th, 2008, 01:47 AM

NO mention of the NFL Game at the Skydome last night?

^^ Hardly Canadian Sports. What is there to say besides the fact that the Bills still suck and that it was overpriced/overhyped.

isaidso

December 9th, 2008, 02:38 AM

^^ Yes, the best advertisement our own football league could possibly have asked for.

Yellow Fever

December 9th, 2008, 06:02 AM

Hamilton deserves to have a NHL team.

isaidso

December 9th, 2008, 06:23 AM

The NHL has turned their backs on this country. First Bettman moved head office out of Montreal, and re-established it in his own country. Now he's rebuffing overtures from Canadian cities that actually care about hockey like Hamilton and Winnipeg in favour of those that don't like Atlanta and Charlotte.

If they don't make some massive strides toward repairing the damage, Canadians should abandon the NHL and build our own league. The NHL don't deserve Canada and can go to hell. Here's a link to a National Post article about Balsillie trying to repatriate a team back to this country:

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=982129

Yellow Fever

December 9th, 2008, 06:39 AM

Canadians should abandon the NHL and build our own league.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=982129

Is it possible for the "Canadian leaque" compete with the much bigger NHL?

Taller, Better

December 9th, 2008, 06:41 AM

Yes.

but that is not a popular opinion round here.............
I think, if done properly, it could benefit both leagues.

Yellow Fever

December 9th, 2008, 06:54 AM

World Series between the two leagues. :)

Taller, Better

December 9th, 2008, 07:40 AM

In my humble opinion, the CFL should get with the programme and be part of the
future with the NFL in the country, as in a partnership. Much easier (and more profitable) than having second string Senators like Larry Campbell trying to ram through legislation to prevent an American football league from entering Canada.... let's turn a blind eye our active participation in the American Hockey, Soccer, Basketball and Baseball leagues that have already managed to cross the border? Be part of it, be on the ground floor...... and go with reality.
Is it smarter to be part of the action, or fight it?

apparently the Canadian way is to pull the patriotism flag on this sport, and turn a blind eye to just about all the other professional leagues already operating North of the 49th parallel.

isaidso

December 9th, 2008, 09:12 AM

Partnership between our football league and theirs would be a facade. It would be tantamount to a takeover. Look what happened to our US partnership in hockey! Canada gets out voted, we lose the league head office, and the league ignores Canada in favour of the US.

There can not be any partnership unless we want to lose the last pro sports league Canada has left. We're down to 1 folks. We lost the NHL to the States, and the CFL is all that remains. We never had a league in basketball so there was nothing to lose in the first place. The baseball league in Canada is still intact, but has never flourished.

It's not about turning a blind eye to the other sports leagues, but building and supporting the only one we have left. I'd very much be in favour of the NHL being repatriated and that our baseball leagues flourished. You're quite right that the CFL needs to learn how to prosper even with NFL competition, but in the mean time, if Rogers can wave the flag regarding the telecom industry, surely a Canadian cultural institution can do the same.

The NFL is simply not good for Canada if we end up with a team in one city, and nothing in the rest of the country. Besides, a lot of people love the Canadian game more than the US version. US football can be relatively boring. They get excellent marks for the spectacle that is US football, but excitement on the field?

Is it possible for the "Canadian leaque" compete with the much bigger NHL?

Yes. With only 20% of the teams, Canada generates 30% of NHL revenue. Canadian teams are the cash cows of the league. Put another way, 24 US teams generate 70% of NHL revenue, or just over double what the 6 Canadian teams generate. Clearly, the economics are better in Canada, and done properly, the smaller Canadian market could compete head on with a US hockey league. Without the 6 Canadian NHL teams, the NHL would be in a lot of trouble.

Canada should get to crown a hockey champion every year, not once a decade! All we need is a rich billionaire like Balsillie to launch a new league in partnership with the Russians. There could be a Russian League and a Canadian League with up to 30 teams in each country. I much prefer the European model of divisions whereby anyone can start a team, then build it up to one day gain inclusion in the highest division. The North American system is a closed old boys club that limits the growth of the sport.

The Canadian League:

Halifax
Moncton
Quebec City
Montreal
Laval

Ottawa
Oshawa
Toronto
North York
Mississauga

Hamilton
KW
Windsor
London
St. Catharines

Thunder Bay
Winnipeg
Saskatoon
Regina
Calgary

Edmonton
Kelowna
Vancouver
Surrey
Victoria

Some cities are smaller than 300,000: Moncton, Thunder Bay, Regina, Saskatoon, and Kelowna. It's better to have regional representation than a strict population cut off.

This would be far more interesting than having 6 cities to follow, and watching a championship being played in a foreign country year after year after year. If we had a true Canadian Hockey League, we could crown a champion every year. The winner could play a best of 7 series with the Russian champion. Screw the NHL. They've turned their back on this country, it's time we did the same.

They can give us the Stanley Cup back too. It doesn't belong to the NHL. Technically, any hockey team in Canada can challenge for the Stanley Cup. It's only become the de facto cup of the NHL because no other league has existed to challenge for it.

Taller, Better

December 9th, 2008, 09:28 AM

I do not subscribe to the concept that the CFL cannot survive if the NFL comes to Canada. Quite the contrary I think it has a chance to grow if they get on board now and form a partnership with the NFL.
Should Larry Campbell, dottering old Senator from BC, have the right to try and legislate the league out of Toronto?
Sorry, but no. Because if he does we would also have to ban the NHL, the NBA, MLS, and MLB.
Would be hypocritical to single out one sport, would it not?

Yellow Fever

December 9th, 2008, 09:55 AM

Remember one thing though, the players will go to where the the money is. If the Canadian League can not match the salary the NHL offers, the top players will be very likely playing in the NHL, then the Canandian league will be ended up like the AHL etc. I highly doubt the smaller Canadian cities can attract enough fans to the games.

isaidso

December 9th, 2008, 10:12 AM

Should Larry Campbell, dottering old Senator from BC, have the right to try and legislate the league out of Toronto?
Sorry, but no. Because if he does we would also have to ban the NHL, the NBA, MLS, and MLB.
Would be hypocritical to single out one sport, would it not?

If Larry Campbell doesn't, I'll find one in Toronto that will. The NBA, etc. aren't threatening an existing product while the NFL is. What Canadian league would we be protecting by banning TFC, the Raptors, and the Blue Jays? The NHL was a Canadian league that has been moved to the US that still has some teams here, so it's not comparable.

The only hypocrite I see is Rogers. Have you ever wondered why none of the foreign telecom/cable giants of the world have operations in this country? That's right. Rogers, Bell, and Telus have legislation in place to prevent it. Rogers has legislation to protect their product and market, then use it to threaten a Canadian cultural institution. Nice!

Steeltown

December 9th, 2008, 02:39 PM

Balsillie, Sabres deny talks
But rumblings are persistent

December 09, 2008
Steve Milton
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/479190

Where there has been this much smoke, you have to suspect, or at least search for, some fire.

For a few years, The Spectator has heard rumblings -- and duly reported them -- linking Jim Balsillie, the Research in Motion co-CEO from Waterloo, who would like to land an NHL team for Hamilton, to a potential sale of the Buffalo Sabres.

At the turn, both sides have either denied or refused to comment upon the notion. A denial and a no comment were issued yesterday.

But the rumblings continue to amplify, with unconfirmed reports out of Buffalo and Rochester this week that the Sabres have approached Balsillie for exploratory discussions; that a purchase price has already been discussed and that some Sabres games could be played in Hamilton if Balsillie buys the team from current owner Tom Golisano.

Something must be going on here. The exact degree of mutual interest, and whether this would be just one of a number of irons that Balsillie has in the NHL fire, are the larger questions.

Sources in western New York hinted to The Spectator last week that the Balsillie-Buffalo link had been recently revived and that a purchase price in the neighbourhood of $185 million might have been discussed.

Such a price would be below the behind-closed-doors $200 million minimum that NHL owners prefer and that framed the recent sales of franchises in Tampa Bay and Edmonton.

However, it might also be above what a team in Buffalo would fetch at market because: a) three levels of government are involved in the lease at HSBC Arena, making the franchise almost impossible to move if the team becomes economically unviable there; and b) there is no actual market for NHL franchises in the current league.

A year ago, the Nashville Predators were finally sold to a local group, which included now-indicted Boots Del Biaggio, for a published price of $193 million, although the real cash value was actually $176 million. That was far less than the $220 million Balsillie had bid, but his stunning offer included what has been characterized as a Hamilton bonus.

Purchasing Del Biaggio's 27 per cent equity share in the Predators must still be an option for Balsillie. A California bankruptcy judge will decide, likely by early spring, whether those shares can be auctioned to the highest bidder, regardless of approval by the Predators' ownership group.

There are a number of other NHL franchises reportedly up for grabs, foremost among them Phoenix, Florida and in all probability, Atlanta, once and if the Thrashers' thorny ownership questions are settled in court. But Phoenix and Florida aren't likely to find anyone willing to keep the teams in horrible money-losing situations and their local leases are strong enough to preclude a facile move.

Balsillie seems to be the only one with significant financial clout interested enough to buy an NHL team in the current economic climate. Balsillie's chief hockey lawyer and spokesperson Richard Rodier has refused to comment on any potential purchase situations, which makes legal and political sense.

"From time to time, reports surface quoting anonymous sources claiming a club is for sale, or that Jim is doing this or that with respect to a particular club," Rodier said via e-mail yesterday.

"These reports have generally been inaccurate. More importantly, these reports unfairly put the incumbent owners (or club management) in the uncomfortable and potentially destabilizing situation of having to comment on these inaccurate reports. Very unfairly. As such, we have no comment beyond referring you to the statement made by Larry Quinn, the managing partner of the Sabres."

Quinn's statement: "We're not selling the team, we're not moving the team to Hamilton, there is absolutely nothing going on."

But Golisano has seemed much less interested in the Sabres over the past two years. He rescued the club from bankruptcy in 2003, paying a reported $93 million, with more than half of that assigned to back debt. If he were to sell the team now, he would still reap a significant profit.

The Sabres have enjoyed renewed success at the gate since the lockout of 2004-05. However, the salary cap that was designed to protect smaller markets, such as Buffalo and Edmonton, has risen steadily since then.

The salary floor -- the minimum amount a team must spend on player salaries -- has climbed proportionately and the Sabres are now obliged to spend more on player costs than they were spending before the lockout. Golisano is said to be among several owners who are deeply concerned about those rising costs.

Speculating a little further, this would be the kind of compromise that could satisfy, at least partially, Golisano, Balsillie's yearning for more Canadian NHL franchise content, the worried Leafs, and the Sabres' marketing problem of not having a broadcast outlet on Canadian cable TV. Balsillie would be eligible to put together some kind of Sabres broadcast package in Canada.

Additionally, it could save face for Gary Bettman, who has chosen to take Balsillie's aggressive NHL interest personally. Balsillie would be off the league's back and into its lodge.

So there is some logic to the Balsillie-to-Buffalo speculation. How much truth there is won't be clear for a while yet.

salvius

December 9th, 2008, 04:05 PM

From what I'm reading, the NFL game was an utter flop. And I'm glad. It's such a crappy sport.

habsfan

December 9th, 2008, 05:57 PM

Is it possible for the "Canadian leaque" compete with the much bigger NHL?

NO, it couldn'T. It would be like the CFL compared to the NFL. This Canadian Hockey League would just turn out to be some kind of "minor" league for the bigger and more powerful NHL.

As a habsfan, there's no way in hell I'd stop cheering for the Habs. I've always said it, and I'll say it again...i couldn't care less about other teams...whether they be canadian or american. All that matters are my Habs. I will die before I cheer for another team!

Let's be realistic here. What junior player would choose to play in a CHL where the average salary is 200,000$(maybe 400,000$) when he could go to the States and make milions??? The CHL would have players who couldn't make the NHL and would therefore be a cheaper imitation of the NHL.

i'd rather make 4 million$ per year and play in front of 5000 people compared to making 250,000$ and playing in front of 20,000 people!

Yes. With only 20% of the teams, Canada generates 30% of NHL revenue. Canadian teams are the cash cows of the league. Put another way, 24 US teams generate 70% of NHL revenue, or just over double what the 6 Canadian teams generate. Clearly, the economics are better in Canada, and done properly, the smaller Canadian market could compete head on with a US hockey league. Without the 6 Canadian NHL teams, the NHL would be in a lot of trouble.

One of the main reasons why the Canadian teams performed so well over the past couple of years is due to the fact that the Canadian Dollar was at par with the US Greenback. If the Canadian dollar drops to 65 or 70¢ US again, the Canadian teams won't be doing as well. Just the latest drop in the Can. Dollar has had some consequences. Canadian teams will be 20% less profitable in the coming year.

They can give us the Stanley Cup back too. It doesn't belong to the NHL. Technically, any hockey team in Canada can challenge for the Stanley Cup.

Not anymore...the Stanley Cup does belong to the NHL!

Halifax
Moncton
Quebec City
Montreal
Laval

Ottawa
Oshawa
Toronto
North York
Mississauga

Hamilton
KW
Windsor
London
St. Catharines

Thunder Bay
Winnipeg
Saskatoon
Regina
Calgary

Edmonton
Kelowna
Vancouver
Surrey
Victoria

AS much as I'd like to see a Canadian League, your vision is a little to optimistic. 11 teams in Ontario yet only 3 in Québec???:no: IN any case, I don't think Toronto could have 5 teams, let alone 11 teams in Ontario.

I understand your frustrations regarding the way Bettman has handled this league, but what many of you are suggesting is simply not realistic and will never happen!

EastVanMark

December 9th, 2008, 09:03 PM

Thanks for pointing out the logic Habsfan.

Taller, Better

December 9th, 2008, 10:11 PM

If Larry Campbell doesn't, I'll find one in Toronto that will. The NBA, etc. aren't threatening an existing product while the NFL is. What Canadian league would we be protecting by banning TFC, the Raptors, and the Blue Jays? The NHL was a Canadian league that has been moved to the US that still has some teams here, so it's not comparable.

The only hypocrite I see is Rogers. Have you ever wondered why none of the foreign telecom/cable giants of the world have operations in this country? That's right. Rogers, Bell, and Telus have legislation in place to prevent it. Rogers has legislation to protect their product and market, then use it to threaten a Canadian cultural institution. Nice!

I understand the fear of the CFL collapsing, but I am just not convinced using firewall legislation is the way to go. How would we feel if the USA passed legislation outlawing Canadian teams from American Leagues? You are one of the few true Canadian patriots I know, and I admire your commitment to the country. You love it from sea to sea and from North to South. Many people who claim to be Canadian patriots are surprisingly wrapped up in petty regional jealousies. How deep is the love for the CFL across Canada? We recently found out that if Montreal is in the finals the rest of the country tunes out, and if Montreal is not in the finals Quebec tunes out. The last Grey Cup I watched was the one in 1991 in Winnipeg when the Toronto Argonauts won over the Stampeders. There was so much open hostility toward Toronto fans who made the trip to Winnipeg that it all left a very bad taste in my mouth. When I was young there was friendly inter-city rivalry, but everyone watched the Grey Cup no matter where it was, or who was playing. I remember when I was in about Grade three our reader had a wonderful story about a family travelling to another city to see the Grey Cup.
Does Canada still love the CFL?

isaidso

December 10th, 2008, 12:12 AM

There's a sizable and fiercely loyal Canadian football population from coast to coast. Without them, this Canadian sport would probably have ceased to exist about 20 years ago. I believe a great deal of my persistence and determination stems from being an immigrant from a very self confident and unwaveringly independent nation, Britain. I brought to Canada that cocksure domineering mentality that most Britons are ingrained with. I understand the benefits of having a strong sense of nation and the ingredients that result in that self assuredness. I also have the luxury of seeing Canada from an outsiders perspective and become sad when I see it not appreciated and potential unfulfilled.

When I moved here, I fell in love with the country immediately. My admiration of Canada has only grown stronger the more I learn about it. I also admire many things about Americans and what they have achieved as a nation. Therein lies my eternal grief. I see many of the things that they have attained and built as a nation, and want the same things for Canada and Canadians.

Canada is a smaller country, and has to fight much harder to get many of these same things, but the struggle is worth it. I've watched Canada grow ever stronger and more confident as a nation since I first arrived as a young boy. When I arrived, my classmates would look to Hollywood as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. That really bothered me. Why don't they look to Toronto? Over the last 25 years, I've watched a shift occur where the young generation don't look south as much as they used to as Toronto has come of age, and vastly greater opportunities now exist at home. Before, LA was that place of glamour. It still is, but now we've developed our own shimmer. In music, in television, in cinema, in theatre, in galleries, in museums, in skylines, in business, and in every little area imaginable, I've watched the country come of age.

This young generation growing up today, have a confidence that I couldn't detect in the generation I saw when I arrived in this country. It's because Canada has grown stronger, more independent, bigger, more compelling, and more confident. People devote their energies into nation building because they recognize the myriad ways it enriches every citizen that lives here. I wouldn't do it, if I didn't believe in what Canada represents.

The Aga Khan recognizes it. He chose Canada over every other nation on earth to build his cultural centre. He sees what I see, a society that has vested its future in pluralism. Football? Sure, it's just one small part of this country, but it represents one of those unrealized assets that Canadians don't appreciate. Once it's gone, you can't get it back. Sure, I love the sport as well, but in a country that seems so divided at times, it represents one of the most unlikely bonds that will help Canada stay together.

The power of sport to unite people should not be underestimated. From Australia to Nigeria, it is sport that binds a nation together more than anything else. It seems unfathomable that such a trivial thing can have such an effect, but it's far more important than people realize. Why do Australians and Brits seem to have a tighter bond than Canadians and Brits? Sports! Through cricket and rugby, those 2 nations are continuously being joined at the hip through weekly interaction and rivalry. Sport is a glue that binds people together.

We're missing that in Canada. You may wonder why I go on and on and on about domestic sports leagues? That's why! I love sports, but it goes well beyond that. It's important for this country and how Canadians view themselves and each other. Canada is very important to the world. Nothing like it exists, and what Canada represents must succeed, if the world is to prosper. It's why I live in Toronto, and not London.

I do believe the CFL will survive, but it needs some help through a rough patch. Canadians invented this game and I don't want to be the generation that 'dropped the ball' because we were too blind to its greater value beyond sport. It has the potential to be as important a national bond as hockey is. It used to be a huge deal in this country. The product hasn't changed, only people's perception of it. As a Torontonian, I feel we have a responsibility as the nexus of this country to nation build, not turn our backs on the rest of the country. Many Torontonians don't see it that way, but I feel that it's our duty to support and bolster the few national institutions that this country has. The Grey Cup is a national institution and as the Grey Cup commercial rightly pointed out, 'for one Sunday in November, it's the nation's glue'.

Taller, Better

December 10th, 2008, 06:50 AM

eloquently put, isaidso! :applause:

Yellow Fever

December 10th, 2008, 09:38 AM

This Canadian Hockey League would just turn out to be some kind of "minor" league for the bigger and more powerful NHL.

That's pretty much exactly as what I said on my post #975. :)

Canadian Chocho

December 17th, 2008, 08:20 PM

¿nothing new?

Overground

December 18th, 2008, 12:35 AM

I've got some footy updates.

- As you probably already know, Canadian international and former Houston star player, Dwayne De Rosario, has been transferred to TFC. There has not been an unveiling yet but Mo said when the holidays are over there will be a "big splash" event for him. Mo is also working on another big signing(DP striker?), which no one knows who yet.

- TFC has sold out of all Season Tickets again. Still no word on grass yet at BMO. I'm not confident there will be this coming season but hopefully they'll sort something out for 2010. I wonder if DeRo stipulated something about grass.

- Oh dear. Canada dropped nine spots to 90th in the latest Fifa World Rankings. In just over a year they've dropped 40 spots and deservedly so. The best team they beat this year was St. Vincent. Canada has ranking company with NZ, The Gambia, Panama, Congo DR, Austria, the Sudan, Cyprus. Australia is up nine spots to 28th. Sad indeed.

MLS bid news -

- St Louis Lions'(PDL club) owner is trying to acquire a USL-1 team for the 2010 season. How this will effect the St Louis MSL bid who knows? It went the opposite with Atlanta, who's USL club folded recently but the not-talked-about MLS bid still remains.

- MLS commish Don Garber's expansion bid tour has had him stop in Vancouver, with great praise for the bid by him. His comments when visiting Portland were great and he said he wants a MLS team there but the City really needs to come through with the money to build the two stadiums.

His words for Miami were not as good. Garber expressed issues with the market, Florida International University that is the proposed venue, and a few other items. He wants better press boxes, more amenities, and they had questions about the artificial turf. Miami bid owner Marcelo Claure said his offer is good for 2010 only and not for the league's projected date of 2011 to add two more teams. Possibly bluffing, he said otherwise, they're not interested.

Habfanman

December 18th, 2008, 10:01 AM

Garber just wants his 40 million and he'll give a team to whomever comes up with it first. With 13/16 teams losing money and stagnant, if not declining attendance, there's no way that the value of an MSL franchise has quadrupled in 3 years.

Overground

December 18th, 2008, 09:59 PM

Forbes says the average franchise value is US$37m. L.A.(worth 100m), Toronto(44m), and Dallas(?) being the winners. Beats me but if they're going to expand then they need to be in proven markets like Vancouver or Portland which have historical success with the sport and where they will get people in the seats and sponsors. K.C. made only $5m and Columbus $6m even though they have a SSS. Time to move the losers to proven markets.

Overground

December 19th, 2008, 02:53 AM

Canucks signed Mats Sundin!

VANCOUVER, British Columbia (AP) — The Vancouver Canucks signed free agent center Mats Sundin on Thursday.

"I am truly excited to be joining the Canucks," Sundin said. "Once I made the decision to return to play a few weeks ago, the Vancouver opportunity was simply the best overall fit. I want to thank (general manager) Mike Gillis and the entire Canucks organization for their professionalism throughout this entire process."

http://www.vancouversun.com/Sports/Sundin+excited+joining+Canucks/1092529/story.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/19/sports/hockey/19sundin.html?ref=sports

Yellow Fever

December 19th, 2008, 09:17 AM

If Sundin can plays as good as when he played in Toronto, it would be an excellent addition for the Canucks.

Huhu

December 19th, 2008, 10:27 PM

I couldn't believe it when I read the newspaper this morning; it's finally over! I thought I was still asleep and dreaming lol!

isaidso

January 22nd, 2009, 01:31 PM

The 2009 World Baseball Classic 1st round comes to Toronto's Skydome!

Pool A: Tokyo Dome, Tokyo, Capacity: 42,000
China, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea

Pool B: Foro Sol, Mexico City, Capacity: 27,940
Australia, Cuba, Mexico, South Africa

Pool C: Skydome, Toronto, Capacity: 49,539
Canada, Italy, United States, Venezuela

Pool D: Estadio Hiram Bithorn, San Juan, Capacity: 18,000
Dominican Republic, Netherlands, Panama, Puerto Rico

Pool C: Skydome, Toronto
Sat., Mar. 7 #1 Canada v. USA
Sat., Mar. 7 #2 Italy vs. Venezuela
Sun., Mar. 8 #3 Game 1 vs. Game 2 Winners
Mon., Mar. 9 #4 Game 1 vs. Game 2 Losers
Tue., Mar. 10 #5 Game 4 Winner vs. Game 3 Loser
Wed., Mar. 11 #6 Game 3 vs. Game 5 Winners

Got to root for the home team! Team Canada's provisional roster for the 2009 World Baseball Classic (with name, team and league if non-MLB):

PITCHERS
Phillippe Aumont, Seattle Mariners; James Avery, Cincinnati Reds; Chris Begg, Free Agent; Tim Burton, Houston Astros; Jesse Crain, Minnesota Twins; Eric Cyr, Free Agent; David Davidson, Pittsburgh Pirates; Scott Diamond, Atlanta Braves; Bryan Dumesnil, Atlanta Braves; Jeff Francis, Colorado Rockies.

Eric Gagne, Free Agent; Steve Green, Free Agent; Rich Harden, Chicago Cubs; Blake Hawksworth, St. Louis Cardinals; Mike Johnson, Free Agent; Chris Leroux, Florida Marlins; Kyle Lotzkar, Cincinnati Reds; Brooks McNiven, San Francisco Giants; Alexandre Periard, Milwaukee Brewers; Vince Perkins, Chicago Cubs.

Scott Richmond, Toronto Blue Jays; Robert Swindle, Milwaukee Brewers; Philippe-Alexandre Valiquette, Cincinnati Reds.

CATCHERS
Cole Armstrong, Chicago White Sox; Luke Carlin, San Diego Padres; George Kottaras, Boston Red Sox; Pierre-Luc Laforest, Free Agent; Russell Martin, Los Angeles Dodgers; Chris Robinson, Chicago Cubs; Maxim St. Pierre, Detroit Tigers.

INFIELDERS
Chris Barnwell, Houston Astros; Shawn Bowman, New York Mets; Richard Clapp, Free Agent; Cale Iorg, Detroit Tigers; Justin Morneau, Minnesota Twins; Peter Orr, Washington Nationals; Mark Teahen, Kansas City Royals; Joey Votto, Cincinnati Reds.

OUTFIELDERS
Jason Bay, Boston Red Sox; Aaron Guiel, Yakult Swallows, NPB (Japan); Jamie Romak, Pittsburgh Pirates; Matt Stairs, Philadelphia Phillies; Adam Stern, Free Agent; Nick Weglarz, Cleveland Indians.

UTILITY PLAYER
Brett Lawrie, Milwaukee Brewers.

Baseball: since June 4th, 1838, Beechville, Ontario, Canada

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/wbc_09/index.jsp?loc=toronto

Canadian Chocho

January 22nd, 2009, 09:07 PM

Ugh! 60$ a ticket! :( Why do dey gotta play a brotha like dat?

Canadian Chocho

January 22nd, 2009, 09:09 PM

oh wait!! nvm

isaidso

January 22nd, 2009, 11:07 PM

Ugh! 60$ a ticket! :( Why do dey gotta play a brotha like dat?

The entire upper bowl is only $12. So this event is affordable to about 80% of population. That's better than most sports.

Canadian Chocho

January 24th, 2009, 06:04 PM

Yeah, I had looked at the strip of 6 games. LOL, how stupid.

isaidso

January 26th, 2009, 04:17 PM

Ah! $60 would be steep. I'm buying 5 tickets to the Canada - USA game tomorrow. As much as I love sports, it just dawned on me that I've never been to any sport featuring national teams. I did see a Japanese women's volleyball game, but I don't think it was their national team.

isaidso

January 27th, 2009, 09:12 AM

The 2009 Capital Hoops Classic goes tomorrow night pitting the nation's #1 ranked team, Carleton University against #2, the University of Ottawa. 8,000 tickets have already been sold in what promises to be one of those great Canadian college basketball nail biters.

The Capital Hoops Classic may end up being a primer for the National Championships which are in Ottawa for another 2 years after a 24 year run in Halifax from 1984 to 2007. It seems that Ottawa is gaining a love of college hoops like exists on the east coast. It doesn't hurt having 2 great teams in your own backyard. Carleton has matched up well to top NCAA teams this year. They beat Alabama 83-72, and lost to Kansas by just 1 point, 84-83.

Other decent showings: McGill University beat Virginia 88-83 a few months ago, and almost upset Kansas, going down 72-67. Some other surprises: Calgary beat Weber State 81-74, Concordia beat Illinois 86-82, and Brock beat North Florida 81-72.

The Classic will be broadcast nationally on the Score. The event is a double header with the women's squads going first, followed by the much anticipated men's game. Here's Acadia shocking #1 ranked Carleton University at last year's Nationals, 82-80 in double overtime. GO AXEMEN!! It was held at Scotiabank Place in Kanata, Ontario, as is the Capital Hoops Classic.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/sports/photos/2008/03/16/392bell_ryan080315cp.jpg
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/sports/photos/2008/03/16/392bell_ryan080315cp.jpg

Favourite teams: Dalhousie University Tigers, my alma mater, and then other AUS squads like Acadia University, SMU, and St. FX. I'm definitely traveling to Kanata, Ontario for the National Championships in March if my Tigers make it to the big show. Black & Gold, Black & Gold! Go Dal Go!

:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

Taller, Better

January 28th, 2009, 07:00 PM

habsfan

January 29th, 2009, 04:04 AM

Could there be anything more Canadian than Crashed Ice, at the Quebec Winter Carnival? Hockey players skate at top speed down the very famous toboggan run from Chateau Frontenac. I had seen the advertising poster in the subway, and it was a breathtaking view of Quebec City with the skaters headed downward. We were just watching the Brazilian tv station and they had a lengthy report on the race - looked amazing!

Yeah, I watched a report on TV about Crashed Ice in Q.C. You gotta be a littel coocoo to go down that track at that speed, but I must admit, I'm gonna try to be there for next year. Looks like it was lots of fun...not to mention there were 100,000 people there in -25 degree weather!

Taller, Better

January 29th, 2009, 09:27 AM

You freeze your butt off, but the Winter Carnival is a lot of fun! That Crashed Ice thing looked amazing, and the view of Quebec City from the top is breathtaking...

isaidso

January 30th, 2009, 03:36 AM

^^ I'm dying to go back to Quebec City in the winter. Crashed Ice is awesome! My sister and I want to try it.

4os2ufb5EuE&feature

No. 1 Carleton Ravens win Capital Hoops Classic 87-72 over No. 2 Ottawa Gee-Gees in front of record crowd of 10,523. Not bad considering the transit strike in Ottawa and nasty weather in the nation's capital. That's a bigger crowd than showed up for the Raptors - Nets game.

Here's the nation's Top 10 published on January 27th with previous week's rankings in parenthesis.

#1. Carleton (1)
#2. Ottawa (2)
#3. UBC (3)
#4. StFX (5)
#5. Calgary (4)

#6. Victoria (8)
#7. Western Ontario (6)
#8. Windsor (9)
#9. Concordia (7)
#10.Trinity Western (NR)

Other teams receiving votes: Saint Mary's (45), Cape Breton (26), Dalhousie (15), Toronto (13), Brandon (9), UQAM (9)

The 2007 meeting
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/163/371651040_6ab5ebab0e.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/163/371651040_6ab5ebab0e.jpg?v=0
The Red Zone in 2009
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2247/2252980919_218b1a2edb.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2247/2252980919_218b1a2edb.jpg?v=0

isaidso

January 30th, 2009, 05:49 AM

A Carleton victory over NCAA Division 1 school LaSalle in 2006. Is that the Raven's Nest? I think you guys need a bigger gym. Apparently, there were over 3,000 at this game. Are there plans to build a larger basketball only arena for them? Something around 5,000 that can be expanded, if need be?

There's talk of big improvements coming to university and sports infrastructure due to the Conservative budget. Would be nice to see a few purpose built college basketball arenas constructed. University of Toronto plays in an old gym. They really should get a proper arena. What other schools have strong growing basketball programs, but are still playing in high school style gyms?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/80/237943618_822dd9bb28.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/80/237943618_822dd9bb28.jpg?v=0

Taller, Better

January 30th, 2009, 09:20 AM

WOW!! I love that Crashed Ice thing!! Can't believe my eyes, so thanks for posting that youtube video!

isaidso

January 30th, 2009, 09:27 AM

WOW!! I love that Crashed Ice thing!! Can't believe my eyes, so thanks for posting that youtube video!

No problem. There's a whole whack of them on youtube. It would be fabulous if they tried to tie it in to the 2010 Vancouver Olympics some how.

Taller, Better

January 30th, 2009, 09:31 AM

Maybe have them skate down an iced path on the mountain, and have them crash to the bottom at about 500 mph!! :D

CrazyCanuck

January 30th, 2009, 09:34 AM

Demonstration sport? It's always possible. it's no different really than skier or boarder cross(invented at Whistler). It's just on skates

Taller, Better

January 31st, 2009, 07:30 PM

This is not a clip on Canadian sport, per se, but I am wondering if this is done in Canada as well... the clip is from Norway, and these skiiers go over a cliff, drop the skiis and then parachute down with only the special clothing they are wearing. They look like bats. Check it out!
http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=1778399&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1

isaidso

February 2nd, 2009, 07:40 AM

^^ That clip is awesome. I assumed it was impossible, because it hadn't been done yet, but apparently not.

Taller, Better

February 2nd, 2009, 08:53 AM

I was a bit shocked, too... I wouldn't have thought that bat clothes would give enough "lift" for a person to glide like that. Would like to see them hit the water, however...

isaidso

February 2nd, 2009, 11:35 AM

It reminds me of the story of that woman who fell out of an airplane, but survived by spreading herself into the shape of a starfish. She proceeded to try and find a grassy hill to 'land' on, then angled her approach to mirror the grade of the hill. I think she sprained her ankle. You know we're all going to see this flying suit in the next big spy movie. The film industry is going to be all over this one.

Overground

February 3rd, 2009, 10:14 AM

Holy crap that video is insane! When that one guy flies by the road.....wow. You wouldn't get me going anywhere near one of those things though.

isaidso

February 3rd, 2009, 10:23 AM

Holy crap that video is insane! When that one guy flies by the road.....wow. You wouldn't get me going anywhere near one of those things though.

I'm scared of heights, but I don't think I could pass up the opportunity to experience flight. It must be magical to be able to fly around like a bird. I'd do it.

isaidso

February 4th, 2009, 02:37 PM

Back in December, at the State of the League address in Montreal, CFL commissioner Mark Cohon offered a timeline to Ottawa fans regarding the stadium and the return of football to the nation's capital.

''By mid-January, we hope to have an indication from the city in terms of the direction we'll be going in Ottawa,'' Cohon said about the stadium design. "If that is positive, we're hopeful that 2011 would be a time that we could get a team back in Ottawa.''

It's now February. I know that the south stands of the old stadium have been demolished, but is there any news from the City of Ottawa?

25,000 seems rather small for a metro of 1.2 million people. Perhaps, it was scaled down to cater to the needs of the potential MLS team. If Ottawa has a team in the Canadian Football League in 2014, it's been decided that it will host the Grey Cup at season's end. Even with 10,000 temporary seats in the end zone, that only brings this up to 35,000. Here's a reminder of the stadium proposal.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/siteplan_large.jpg

The plan would include:

* A refurbished\rebuilt Frank Clair Stadium, with a capacity for 25,000 fans, and suitable for both CFL football and soccer
* A refurbished Civic Centre, presumably with about the same capacity as it currently has (just south of 10,000), suitable for OHL hockey and concerts.
* An outdoor amiptheatre for musical and theatrical acts, with a capacity of 2,000.
* A retail park and central promenade, with restaurants and shops lining the areas along Bank and Holmwood. Dome residential development would be involved as well.
* Community soccer, baseball and football fields.
* A walk-through aquarium inside the Aberdeen Pavilion.
* Significantly reduced surface parking, and overall, a much more pedestrian friendly area.
* A specially designated space for the Ottawa Farmer’s Market, allowing it to continue on in the Glebe.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/aerial_large.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/stadiumaerial_large.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/retail_large.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/stadiumfield_large.jpg

More information can be found at the proposal's official website, here (http://www.lansdownelive.ca/index.asp)

isaidso

February 5th, 2009, 02:35 PM

GADSDEN WANTS CFL TEAM FOR U.S.

DAVID NAYLOR
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
February 4, 2009 at 6:56 PM EST

The CFL says it's not interested in revisiting expansion to the United States, but former Miami Dolphins receiver Oronde Gadsden still wants to try.

Gadsden, who played with Miami from 1998 to 2003, has put together a group that plans to pursue a CFL expansion franchise for either Detroit or Rochester, N.Y.

"I'm going to put my best foot forward," Gadsden said from Miami. "I'm going to try. I've got a few interested guys down here with myself.

"Because of the suspension of the Arena Football League and NFL Europe, there's lots of people in South Florida who don't have a chance to play. In these financial times, you are looking for something with stability and the CFL is extremely stable."

Gadsden played in both the AFL and NFL Europe before joining the Dolphins. Though Gadsden never played in Canada, he said he knows many players who have, including current Dolphins running back Ricky Williams and Gadsden's cousin John Avery, who spent five years in the CFL.

"I know a little bit about it because I looked at it when I was doing my tour around the AFL and World League [later known as NFL Europe]," he said. "We want it to be a win-win situation for everyone involved. The two cities that I've put my finger on are Rochester and Detroit."

Gadsden said he believes those sites would be ideal because they are border cities where people are already familiar with the Canadian game.

"It's a great bang for your buck for what you pay to see it," said Gadsden, who caught Dan Marino's last touchdown pass in the NFL. "I think you could get the best of both worlds if you get a team on the U.S. border, with 12 players and three downs, you could have a great thing.

"Detroit and Rochester border Canada and people in those two cities already watch CFL on TV so it's not a big change, not like bringing it to Miami."

Gadsden's biggest problem will be that — after the ill-fated southern expansion in the early 1990s — the CFL has apparently no interest in returning to the United Sates.

"The CFL has not discussed the opportunity of U.S. expansion with this group," league spokesman Jamie Dykstra said. "We have no interest in adding an expansion franchise in the United States. Our focus is on building our league in Canada."

Gadsden's plan actually reflects the CFL's original designs on U.S. expansion, which were built around the idea of expanding to cities located within driving distance of the border.

However, when the league's first two expansion suitors turned out to be San Antonio (the first edition of which folded before playing a game) and Sacramento, the league shelved that priority and went to Baltimore, Las Vegas, Memphis, Birmingham, Ala., and Shreveport, La. The league returned to San Antonio for the 1995 season after relocating the franchise from Sacramento.

"It's something that can be done. I know it's been done before but I think [not locating teams close to the border] was the downfall," Gadsden said. "Like I said, I don't think a team would work in Miami or for [Canadian] teams to travel to Miami."

The CFL in recent years has tried to distance itself from its expansion years, adopting a more nationalist platform and suggesting that expansion to the U.S. was a mistake.

However, Montreal Alouettes owner Robert Wetenhall is on record of supporting a return to the U.S. built on the concept of targeting border cities.

Most of the CFL's U.S. expansion teams that played from 1993-95 were disasters off the field, with the Baltimore Stallions, which consistently drew crowds of more than 30,000, the only one achieving a measure of success. The Stallions played in two Grey Cups, winning the second before moving to Montreal after the arrival of the NFL's Baltimore Ravens for the 1996 season.

The Stallions and the rest of the CFL's U.S.-based teams had the advantage of not having to dress 20 Canadian players on their rosters, a provision which is seen to be in violation of U.S. labour law.

The five remaining U.S. expansion teams were folded after the 1995 season.

At of the end of the 2008 CFL season, just two players, Saskatchewan Roughriders defensive back Eddie Davis and Montreal quarterback Anthony Calvillo, remained active of those who had played on U.S. expansion teams.

My take on this is that we need to expand and strengthen the league in Canada before we entertain any ideas like that. Ottawa, Quebec City, Halifax, and London in the east. Victoria and the Okanagan Valley in the west.

I have to admit that the Detroit area is a worthwhile idea, but put the team in Windsor and call it Windsor. If people in Windsor travel across the bridge to see the NBA, MLB, etc. people in Detroit who love the CFL will do the same in the other direction.

Windsor is a sports loving town and could easily draw 20,000 by itself. Add Detroit to the mix and you could arguably get another 10,000 Americans showing up to games. That would put Windsor at the average CFL attendance right off the bat.

Taller, Better

February 5th, 2009, 05:51 PM

Didn't the CFL try unsuccessfully once in the past to expand to the US?

isaidso

February 5th, 2009, 06:19 PM

Didn't the CFL try unsuccessfully once in the past to expand to the US?

Yes, except for Baltimore, it was a complete disaster. The people running the league today seem far more competent. Cohon is making all the right moves and breathing life back into a league that had been run into the ground. I'm confident that his #1 priority is Canada, and returning the league to its former prominence.

I do feel bad for those Baltimore fans though. They genuinely adored their team. You still get a contingent of them showing up at Grey Cup games and they don't even have a team any more. Now that's dedication.

There are definitely a significant number of Americans who love Canadian football. Putting a team in Windsor makes sense, but a franchise there needs to be able to stand up on its own without American fans. I think it can. People in Windsor share the same strong sporting culture that exists on the other side of the Detroit River in Michigan.

Let's keep in mind that 100,000 people go to University of Michigan football games. Another 80,000 go to Michigan State University games. Then there's the huge crowds at college basketball and hockey for both teams, pro football, pro basketball, MLB, and then NHL. Windsor people have grown up with sports playing a far larger role in day to day life than exists in the rest of Ontario. Windsor people would support football en masse.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Windsor attendance figures match those posted by Toronto.

isaidso

February 11th, 2009, 07:33 PM

With just 3 weeks left till College Basketball's March showcase, things are really tightening up in the Atlantic Conference.

TEAM WINS-LOSSES POINTS

StFX 13-2 36pts
Cape Breton 11-4 32pts
Saint Mary's 9-6 24pts
Dalhousie 9-5 24pts
UPEI 9-8 22pts
Acadia 5-11 12pts
Memorial 3-13 10pts
UNB 3-13 8pts

Will it be 'X' again?
http://www.xmenbasketball.com/Pictures%20and%20graphics/XMenBball2006_1.gif
http://www.xmenbasketball.com/Pictures%20and%20graphics/XMenBball2006_1.gif

Perennial basketball power, St.FX looks set to make another trip to the national tournament. Coach K will have to do without assistant coach Gallimore after a physical confrontation with an official at a game with Cape Breton 2 weeks ago. "I sincerely apologize and express my personal regret to the young man involved, to Cape Breton University, and to my alma mater, StFX University." Mr. Gallimore's resignation was accepted by head coach Steve Konchalski and Director of Athletics, Leo MacPherson.

On a brighter note, the AUS championship looks set to be another nail biter. Rivalries are intense out east, and 2009 promises to be the pressure cooker it always is. Could this be Dal's break through season, or will always well coached SMU pull another rabbit out of the hat? Acadia has been disappointing after almost winning a national title last year, while UPEI has shown flashes of brilliance. Then there's those orange jerseys from Cape Breton! I just don't know who'll do it this year.

http://www.xmenbasketball.com/Pictures%20and%20graphics/top4.jpg
http://www.xmenbasketball.com/Pictures%20and%20graphics/top4.jpg

Have to pull for my alma mater though. Go Tigers!
:weird:

Steeltown

February 11th, 2009, 11:28 PM

Pan Am bid needs Hamilton: Peterson

February 11, 2009
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/511394

Pan Am bid chairman David Peterson made it clear today that the games bid needs Hamilton, and Hamilton needs the bid.

"This is an incredible opportunity for Hamilton to increase its sports infrastructure," said Peterson. "We want Hamilton to be an integral part of this Bid, and now is the time to get on board."

Peterson made the comments in remarks to the Hamilton Chamber of Commerce today.

Earlier, a source close to the bid had confirmed that if the Toronto 2015 bid was successful, a new 50-metre pool would be built at McMaster University, in a new building adjacent to the existing pool, which would remain in use.

"It's huge, when you start thinking about it, the number of people who could use a second pool," the source said. "It's something that would be good for the next 50 years."

The current plan has the city hosting track and field at a new stadium. Hamilton also would receive a portable velodrome for track cycling, and is to host volleyball at Copps Coliseum.

The bid brings back hopes for a new permanent pool in Hamilton that had appeared to have been dashed last month when the province cut $300 million from its $1.8-billion Games budget.

Downtown councillor Bob Bratina said the Games are a huge opportunity for the city.

“I believe we have a rare opportunity to create an asset for our City's future, just as they did in 1930 building the municipal pool and civic stadium for the British Empire games. These facilities are still in use almost 80 years later.”

But Ward 4 councillor Sam Merulla maintains his opposition, saying the money is better spent on other projects.

“We have a $180-million hard infrastructure deficit. Any money considerations should be allocated to fast-track those important projects," he said. "Anything other than that would be irresponsible.

The Pan American Games is a major international multi-sport event, held every four years for athletes of the 42 Pan American Sports Organization member nations. The 2015 event, which includes the Pan American Games and the Parapan American Games, is expected to draw 10,000 athletes and officials and 250,000 visitors. Rio de Janiero, Brazil hosted the 2007 Games and Guadalajara, Mexico will host the 2011 Games.

The Bid already has been warmly received by the Canadian sporting community and has the support of all three levels of government, including more than a dozen municipalities across the Greater Golden Horseshoe.

Peterson, a former premier of Ontario, spoke to the Hamilton Chamber of Commerce at noon.

isaidso

February 12th, 2009, 02:16 AM

Is the stadium proposal the same as the one that got tossed around last year? If this all goes ahead, I hope they lower the field after the Pan Ams so football fans aren't so far away from the action on the field. One of the great things about Ivor Wynne is how close the stands are to the sidelines.

Steeltown

February 12th, 2009, 04:44 AM

City Council will vote on Feb 23rd for stadium location and support for the bid finanically. There's two proposed sites for the stadium, West Harbourfront and the Airport land. It's likely council will support the West Harbourfront location.

isaidso

February 12th, 2009, 07:35 AM

When they say West Harbourfront, what area are they referring to? Where the steel plants end, but before that bridge to Burlington? I take it that the airport land isn't very central. Sounds like another Scotiabank Place in the middle of nowhere.

Steeltown

February 12th, 2009, 02:34 PM

West Harbourfront is from Pier 10 to the High Level Bridge. The proposed site is right next to Bayfront Park. It's just outside of downtown Hamilton, literally right next to the new James St North GO Station and along the A-Line transit line.

Canadian Chocho

February 13th, 2009, 06:01 AM

^^ How big will it be? (stadium)

Steeltown

February 13th, 2009, 06:19 PM

About 30,000 seats. The Pan Am committee will only fund a 15,000 seat stadium. So the City has to come up with paying the rest, nearly $95 million to double the size of the stadium. Bob Young (Ti-Cats owner) has already committed to funding the stadium.

The City is counting on naming rights, selling the land Ivor Wynne Stadium resides and donations.

isaidso

February 14th, 2009, 04:11 AM

I can't see Canada being awarded the Pan Ams if athletics is held in a stadium that puny. Let's keep in mind that some venues at the Pan Ams are Olympic calibre. 80,000 seater? Obviously, Hamilton shouldn't build anything that big, but 15,000 is going to be laughed at. It should have a capacity of at least 40,000 if they are serious about actually winning this bid. If that's too big for Hamilton, Hamilton shouldn't get the athletics stadium. Lets get serious here.

Canadian Chocho

February 14th, 2009, 07:52 PM

I don't think it's for the main athletic field.

Steeltown

February 15th, 2009, 12:04 AM

^ Yes it'll be for the main athletic field for the 2015 Pan Am bid. David Peterson, Toronto 2015 Bid Chair, said so this week.

"Hamilton is slated to play a central role in the Games. The current plan has the city hosting perennial Games' favourite track and field (Athletics) at a new stadium. Hamilton also will receive a portable velodrome for track cycling, and is slated to host volleyball, another of the Games' most popular sports, at Copps Coliseum."

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/February2009/11/c7590.html

Canadian Chocho

February 15th, 2009, 07:56 AM

Oh....well they can F*ck off then!

No offence to Hamilton but, the main Athletic field has to be massive. How the hell is a 30,000 seat stadium gunna compare to this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Abertura_Jogos_Panamericanos_2_13072007.jpg/800px-Abertura_Jogos_Panamericanos_2_13072007.jpg

okay, maybe that's too much because I too believe that the Maracana is in a league of it's own but the PanAM before will be here:

(60k)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/284857981_dd4735e925_o.jpg/800px-284857981_dd4735e925_o.jpg

The other Candidate cities stadiums are also impressive.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_C_YgurjHT70/RydZOjy5T7I/AAAAAAAAAI0/5sJdGrOkzOQ/estadio.jpg

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/south_america/colombia/bogota_campin2.jpg

These games REALLY shouldn't be taken lightly.

Steeltown

February 15th, 2009, 05:19 PM

Opening and closing ceremony will take place at Skydome. If the 2015 Pan Am committee had it their way they would only build a 15,000 seat stadium for Athletics at Hamilton. Hamilton has to fund doubling the size of the stadium.

isaidso

February 15th, 2009, 11:00 PM

I want Hamilton to get a new stadium, but it's just too small. 15,000?

Steeltown

February 16th, 2009, 12:20 AM

isaidso

February 16th, 2009, 07:20 AM

No, Hamilton will build a 30,000 seat stadium if council approves the bid Feb 23rd. The Toronto 2015 Pan Am committee will only fund the cost of a 15,000 seat stadium. So it is up to Hamilton to basically come up with the other half of the cost for the stadium. In fact Hamilton will be paying more for the Toronto 2015 Pan Am bid than Toronto itself.

Do you know if the multi-billion dollar infrastructure stimulus package that the feds announced will be of help? This is exactly the type of project that this money is targeting because it can put people back to work very quickly. I suppose this old proposal is too much to ask for?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/dahammer/CommonwealthStadium.jpg

If this does come to pass, what are the plans for Ivor Wynne Stadium? It's a run down antiquated facility, but still manages to be one of the best places to watch football in the country. You're close to the field, sight lines are great, and it has buckets of charm. Ivor Wynne also affords great views of the city if you're up high enough. It's far better than Skydome.

I'm also curious about the new on campus football stadium at Mac. What kind of reception is it getting? I was a little disappointed that they didn't leave much room for possible expansion down the road. 20 years from now, I'd like to see another grand stand on the other side, then eventually a complete bowl. The adjacent land doesn't allow for any substantial enlargements. It looks awesome, but you've got a road on one side and a building and field on the other. Capacity is 6,000.

http://www.cpci.ca/images.asp?month=82008&image=1.jpg
http://www.cpci.ca/images.asp?month=82008&image=1.jpg

isaidso

February 16th, 2009, 08:08 AM

As I'm on the topic of stadia, it's been reported on the Waterloo Warriors Football site, that they're in store for a new stadium as well. Since 1957, football at UW has been played at Seagram (now University) Stadium in Waterloo, about a 15 minute walk off campus. Seagram Stadium was originally the property of UW when construction began in the spring of 1957. The Stadium was UW’s first official permanent facility. The City of Waterloo took back ownership in 1975 then sold it to Wilfrid Laurier University in 1991 for $1.

“The new field will be a boost to Warrior Football, but its scope is far greater,” commented head coach Dennis McPhee. “This is a chance to marry a traditional varsity program to an outstanding student body here at UW. This is an opportunity to engage all our students through an athletic contest which is a bi-product to social interaction and student life. Our alumni are very encouraged that Waterloo Football will be played on UW soil. It is our hope that we are more accessible to both the current students and to our alumni. We want to make them proud.”

What's happening with this project? Details are scarce.

http://www.waterloowarriorfootball.com/NewsArticles2008/uwathleticsfield1--resized.jpg
http://www.waterloowarriorfootball.com/NewsArticles2008/uwathleticsfield1--resized.jpg

Here's Acadia University's new football turf and running track. It features the largest lettering of any field in the world. The homecoming game ball being parachuted in courtesy of the Canadian Forces:

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/news_images/2008/11/game02.jpg
http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/news_images/2008/11/game02.jpg

Steeltown

February 17th, 2009, 05:32 AM

Do you know if the multi-billion dollar infrastructure stimulus package that the feds announced will be of help? This is exactly the type of project that this money is targeting because it can put people back to work very quickly. I suppose this old proposal is too much to ask for?

Yes, the city has the venues (stadium, pool and velodrome - $235 million) under consideration for the infrastructure fund. Though it's unlikely the city will use the infrastructure fund to finance the venues.

If this does come to pass, what are the plans for Ivor Wynne Stadium? It's a run down antiquated facility, but still manages to be one of the best places to watch football in the country. You're close to the field, sight lines are great, and it has buckets of charm. Ivor Wynne also affords great views of the city if you're up high enough. It's far better than Skydome.

The city will demolish the stadium and sell the land for an infill redevelopment. Yesterday a large section of lights broke off and smashed down at Ivor Wynne. Interesting time for that to happen.

I'm also curious about the new on campus football stadium at Mac. What kind of reception is it getting? I was a little disappointed that they didn't leave much room for possible expansion down the road. 20 years from now, I'd like to see another grand stand on the other side, then eventually a complete bowl. The adjacent land doesn't allow for any substantial enlargements. It looks awesome, but you've got a road on one side and a building and field on the other. Capacity is 6,000.

If awarded the 2015 Pan Am bid a swimming pool is to be built next to the stadium and that road (Michell Cresent) will likely permanently close to free up more space and that's where more seats for the stadium could be built. On another note McMaster is in the process of planning a new sports arena for hockey, I've been told it'll be offsite.

On Thursday I will get an advanced copy before council will approve the 2015 Pan Am bid. In this document it'll include new information on the stadium and perhaps new renderings as well.

isaidso

February 18th, 2009, 04:31 PM

The city will demolish the stadium and sell the land for an infill redevelopment. Yesterday a large section of lights broke off and smashed down at Ivor Wynne. Interesting time for that to happen.

If awarded the 2015 Pan Am bid a swimming pool is to be built next to the stadium and that road (Michell Cresent) will likely permanently close to free up more space and that's where more seats for the stadium could be built. On another note McMaster is in the process of planning a new sports arena for hockey, I've been told it'll be offsite.

On Thursday I will get an advanced copy before council will approve the 2015 Pan Am bid. In this document it'll include new information on the stadium and perhaps new renderings as well.

I suppose it's time to say good bye to Ivor Wynne. I just hope the running track in a proposed athletics stadium will be temporary. In reality, the Tiger Cats would be the primary tenant once the Pan Ams are over. Their needs should be the focus and that means no athletics track. Having stands that far away from the field takes away from the football experience.

Countless stadiums in the US have done away with their tracks to bring fans closer to the football field. The best option seems to be lowering the field, and then adding another 15 rows of seating at the bottom.

Regarding Mac, that would be terrific if Michell Crescent is permanently closed. They should always make allowances for stadium expansions, etc. Lets keep in mind that we may see significantly larger college football crowds in the future. U of T was attracting 25,000+ back in the 50s. College football's popularity may never get back to that level of support, but we should design our campuses in the event that it does.

Steeltown

February 20th, 2009, 12:09 AM

$1-million bubble roof would cover Hamilton Pan Am stadium

February 19, 2009
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/516542

Hamilton's Pan Am stadium proposal includes a $1-million bubble roof that would extend use of the facility to 12 months a year.

The fabric dome would be installed to cover the playing field in the winter months, said David Adames, executive director of Tourism Hamilton.

He stressed the roof would fit into a stadium design that can be enlarged from 15,000 to 30,000 seats.

Adames said the city would explore other engineering breakthroughs to maximize use of a $100-million stadium.

City council will vote on a $60 million plan to build the 15,000-seat stadium for track and field and construct a permanent $11.4-million velodrome for track cycling.

The stadium could be expanded later if enough private partners backed the larger facility.

Copps Coliseum would be used for volleyball and McMaster University has been designated for a $35-million pool within the 2015 Games plan.

isaidso

February 22nd, 2009, 07:51 AM

On Thursday I will get an advanced copy before council will approve the 2015 Pan Am bid. In this document it'll include new information on the stadium and perhaps new renderings as well.

Did you get your hands on that advanced copy? I can't imagine the Tiger-Cats sitting on the side lines on this one. In all likelihood, the stadium will be the larger version at 30,000.

After no significant stadium developments in the 1990s, Canada seems to be in a new stadium building cycle:

2000, TD Waterhouse Stadium at UWO, London, College Football (8,000-16,000)
2006, Griffiths Stadium at University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, College Football (10,000)
2007, Saputo Stadium, Montreal, Soccer (13,034)
2007, BMO Field, Toronto, Soccer (21,978)
2007, Redevelopment of Varsity Stadium, Toronto, College Football (5,000)
2007, New field at Acadia University, College Football
2008, Expansion of Mosaic Stadium by 2,100 seats, Regina, Pro Football (30,900)
2008, Ron Joyce Stadium at MAC, Hamilton, College Football (6,000-12,000)
2008, Expansion of Molson Stadium by 5,000 seats, Montreal, College and Pro Football (25,002)
2008, New Warriors Football Stadium, Waterloo, College Football (Capacity unknown)
2010, 'New Moncton Stadium', Moncton, Athletics (10,000)
2010, New retractable roof for BC Place, Vancouver, Pro Football

Pending:

'New Bomber Stadium', Winnipeg, College and Pro Football (30,000-45,000)
Pan Am Stadium, Hamilton, Athletics and Pro Football (15,000-30,000)
Redevelopment of Lansdowne Park, Ottawa, Pro Football (25,000)

Steeltown

February 23rd, 2009, 02:18 PM

You can read the report here....

http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/043C0F26-B39C-417E-B10B-BB2DD290FF0D/0/Feb23CM09006BusinessCaseStadiumFeb1709FINAL.pdf

Steeltown

February 23rd, 2009, 02:21 PM

Council set to OK $60m for Pan Ams

February 23, 2009
Nicole Macintyre
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/518559

The city's plan to spend $60 million to build a Pan Am stadium and velodrome in the west harbour is expected to be overwhelmingly endorsed by council today.

Even the deal's most vocal critic, Councillor Sam Merulla, is walking in expecting to lose in a 13-3 vote.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger isn't willing to predict numbers but he is banking on a strong show of support from council.

"I think there is majority support for this."

For a council known for split decisions, Eisenberger believes today's vote will send a powerful message to the community and outside observers.

It tells residents that the city "isn't prepared to fold its tent and just fill potholes" in the face of an economic downturn, he said.

"It's also a signal to other levels of government that we're willing to be a partner ... it lets people know this council has vision."

But Merulla believes "history will show this will be one of the biggest mistakes this city has ever made."

The deal calls for Hamilton to jump into the Golden Horseshoe 2015 Pan Am Games bid with a $60-million commitment to building an approximately $165 million sports complex.

The province and federal government would throw in $54 million, with the city looking for private partners, like the Ticats, to raise the remaining millions needed to build a 30,000-seat stadium.

A smaller stadium is required for the Games, but Hamilton wants a venue big enough to replace Ivor Wynne and host the Ticats.

The preferred site for the complex is a 30-acre plot bound by Barton, Stuart, Bay and Queen streets.

Though the location costs more up front because the city needs to buy and remediate the land, staff believe it is the best choice for legacy and accessibility.

There is also hope the city will receive additional funds because the site is a brownfield.

The airport is the second pick.

Games supporters launched a strong push for the city's participation in recent weeks, as critics argued the Games are unaffordable.

Merulla, who believes he'll vote against the deal - along with the Games' original opponents Brad Clark and Margaret McCarthy - thinks emotions have overtaken the city's business sense.

"I want a new stadium, too. It's not about want, it's about need," he said, arguing the money should be spent on other infrastructure.

The $60 million is to come from the Future Fund - a $100 million city legacy account created from the 2002 sale of Hamilton Hydro.

Tony Tollis, acting head of finance, said taking from the reserve will not hurt the city's credit rating, but does push it closer to a change.

The expenditure would have no impact on taxes. Tollis said the one drawback would be reducing the fund that council has borrowed from to finance other projects.

"The decision (council) has to make is: Do we want to put all our eggs in one basket?" he said, noting there will still be $40 million left.

Councillor Brian McHattie, who was on the fence, said he will support the deal, but wants the city to pay back the fund. Councillor Chad Collins, who was also undecided, said he's now supportive as well.

Both sides of the Pan Am debate

PRO

* Hamilton needs a new stadium, this is a chance to leverage funds.

* The city will benefit from international attention for the Games.

* The proposed site reforms a brownfield and ties into the city's transit and waterfront planning.

* Money is available in the Future Fund, therefore there is no tax impact.

* Without a new stadium, Hamilton risks losing the Ticats.

* Urban regeneration, spin-off development.

CON

* Hamilton faces ongoing budget issues, must make tough decisions about where to spend.

* Permanently removing $60 million from Future Fund limits available funds for other projects.

* New stadium to be used predominately by a private sports team after the Games.

* Bid is billed as the Toronto Games, Hamilton could miss spotlight.

* Experts warn economic spin-offs of any large-scale games are generally overstated.

New stadium: Council takes buy now, pay later approach

City council's $60-million decision today will only pay for half the stadium Hamilton needs to replace the aging Ivor Wynne. Can the city afford the $50 million more required to build the stadium it really needs?

Steeltown

February 23rd, 2009, 09:53 PM

Hamilton Council has approved the bid, 12-3 in favour. Hamilton is offically in the bid for a new stadium, velodrome and a pool.

isaidso

February 24th, 2009, 02:08 AM

Thanks for the link to the report. It fleshed out a lot of blank areas I had. The only conclusion that I took exception to was one regarding whether an athletic track negatively effects attendance levels at CFL games. A comparison to Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton was used. It's true that Edmonton leads the league in attendance, but the report went on to state:

"Clearly the stadium limitations have been accepted by the spectators."

The correct conclusion is that Edmontonians don't have a choice regarding the athletics track. Edmonton is the most stable franchise in the league. It's probably more accurate to conclude that Edmonton has managed to top CFL attendance levels despite the athletics track. Edmonton has 50% more people to draw from in its metropolitan region than Hamilton and is situated in a market where CFL football is viewed more favourably than is the case in southern Ontario. Hamilton attendance is the lowest in the league and needs every benefit it can exploit to prosper.

It's a mistake to view the existence of an athletics track in a new Hamilton stadium as a minor drawback. It could very well be crucial. Although I take exception to what I see as flawed conclusions on this matter, they have acknowledged the issue, and the 2 obvious options to rectify the situation down the road:

"If the desire was to improve the sense of intimacy in the seating bowl after the Games, either a grandstand would have to be dismantled and reassembled in a location closer to the field or the field level would have to be lowered and additional seats added in the lower seating bowl. Both of these options are costly and would require serious consideration prior to implementation."

If the long time viability of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats is the goal, these options need to be fleshed out because the athletics track is a far bigger problem for the Tiger-Cats than it is for the Eskimos in Edmonton.

Steeltown

February 25th, 2009, 01:18 AM

Bob Young to Seek USL Soccer Franchise for Hamilton

http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3781903

February 24, 2009 - Canadian Football League (CFL) Hamilton Tiger-Cats

Hamilton, Ontario - Bob Young, owner of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, announced today that the team has begun the process of applying for a United Soccer League (USL) franchise for the city of Hamilton, contingent on the construction of a new stadium in Hamilton.

Young remarked, "As a minority owner of the USL's Carolina Railhawks, I'm personally aware of the growing popularity of USL soccer across North America and would be thrilled to see a Hamilton team play in a league with the great Montreal Impact and Vancouver Whitecaps franchises."

"We have been investigating the economic viability of a professional soccer team in Hamilton for a number of years and with the possibility of a new stadium on the horizon, we felt that this is the right time to begin the application process."

Canadian Chocho

February 25th, 2009, 06:00 AM

^ YAY!!!!

Steeltown

February 25th, 2009, 02:07 PM

New tenant for Pan Am stadium?

February 25, 2009
Drew Edwards
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/Sports/article/519974

A day after city council approved a $60-million stadium for the Pan American Games, another potential tenant for the facility has stepped forward.

Hamilton Tiger-Cats' owner Bob Young announced yesterday that he will seek a franchise with the United Soccer League, a Tampa-based organization that fields 11 teams in its top division, including the Montreal Impact and the Vancouver Whitecaps.

Young, who is part-owner of the league's Carolina RailHawks, said that he has been examining professional soccer opportunities in Hamilton since taking over the Canadian Football League franchise in 2003, but couldn't make the numbers work with a team housed at the aging Ivor Wynne Stadium.

"With the new stadium, we have a business model that makes good sense and the USL league is doing well enough, so we're excited to do this, assuming the stadium does get built," Young said.

While the team has yet to formally submit an application to the league, Young says he's already held discussions with league officials about bringing a team to the city.

Matthew Weibe, senior director of franchise development for the league, says the interest is mutual.

"They've approached us and have shown interest in acquiring a franchise and that's something we're interested in exploring," Weibe explained. "We think given its location and where we want to grow the league, Hamilton is an ideal market."

Weibe said a franchise typically costs in the "upper six-figures."

Young said the application is conditional upon the success of the Pan Am bid -- a decision is expected in November -- but that the team could begin play earlier than the planned stadium's 2015 completion date, possibly as early as 2011.

"We'd play a couple years at Ivor Wynne and then move to the new stadium," Young said.

The Tiger-Cats owner said he doubted a team could be viable playing at Ivor Wynne on a permanent basis.

"It would certainly raise real questions about it," he added.

Young said he wanted to step forward quickly after the stadium decision because he wanted to show his support for council's decision with something tangible.

"City council has demonstrated a real commitment to this stadium project. A lot of people were telling the city, 'if you build it, good things will happen,' and we're just an example of that."

Taller, Better

February 25th, 2009, 05:28 PM

I'm really liking the sounds of this move...

isaidso

February 26th, 2009, 04:23 AM

As am I. I was hoping we'd start seeing some moves made by some of our smaller Canadian cities. Ottawa was the first and now Hamilton.

I've noticed a trend develop regarding sports owners pairing soccer and football ownership together. It already exists with basketball and hockey. Spreading stadia and other expenses over 2 franchises makes sense. They've obviously crunched the numbers and a benefit concluded.

If this is a trend, will we see similar moves by other Canadian cities with football teams? I realize that soccer purists are going to be less than happy regarding the position of seating behind the nets, but this may become the norm. Winnipeg? Calgary? Edmonton? Regina?

Canadian Chocho

February 26th, 2009, 05:24 AM

Holy shit, 55,000 people packed the Stade Olympique to watch Montreal defeat Santos Laguna of Mexico, in the Quarterfinal of the CONCACAF Champions League by a score of 2-0.

habsfan

February 26th, 2009, 07:14 AM

Holy shit, 55,000 people packed the Stade Olympique to watch Montreal defeat Santos Laguna of Mexico, in the Quarterfinal of the CONCACAF Champions League by a score of 2-0.

I couldn'T believe it. I was watching the game on my computer earlier tonight and I got chills just hearing the 55,000 people in the Big O go nuts when Sebrango scored his two goals!

Once again, some latin amrican team comes to Montreal expecting to beat us easily, and they get their asses handed to them by our boys.

Who would have thought the Impact could make it to the semi-finals!!

Once again the Ultras(those crazy fans who sing and jump around all game long) were amazing!!!

Go Impact!!!:banana::cheers::banana:

isaidso

February 26th, 2009, 11:58 AM

Once again, some latin amrican team comes to Montreal expecting to beat us easily, and they get their asses handed to them by our boys.

Who would have thought the Impact could make it to the semi-finals!!

Go Impact!!!:banana::cheers::banana:

Is it a best of 3?

Canadian Chocho

February 26th, 2009, 06:24 PM

^^ No it is a 2 leg (home and away) affair.

If Impact win both games, well they go the the 2 leg Semi-Final.

The Two-Leg Elimination system uses the better aggregate score (sum of the goals). So if the next game is Santos 2 - 1 Impact, Impact move one because they have an aggregate score of 3 goals to the 2 goals of Santos. If the sum of the goals is tied, the winner will be decided by the greater number of away goals. If the away goals are tied, they will play two 15min halves of extra time and if no one scores, they go to penalty shoot-out.

Some pics by rstlouis at flickr.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3602/3311051536_c3e785dc76.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3421/3310227109_02fd0e7c01.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3445/3311063894_a053cb9e9a.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3147/3311064270_5f3b1c3f98.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3320/3310222317_010f8bea2d.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3396/3311066504_2b36361499.jpg

The tourny as of now.

(USA)Houston 1 - 1 Atlante(MEX)
(CAN)Montreal 2 - 0 Santos Laguna(MEX)*
(MEX)Cruz Azul 1 - 0 Pumas(MEX)
(PR)Islanders vs. Marathon(HON)

habsfan

February 26th, 2009, 08:17 PM

That last picture is a picture of the Ultra's!! They are basically a bunch of crazy bastards who sing, scream, stand, dance, jump and throw things on the field (Beer, lit firecrackers and flares(as you can see in the picture!) Basically they are a swell bunch!!

When you try to buy tickets for Impact home games, if your tickets are anywhere near the Ultra's, the Impact organization sends you a warning that these people get pretty loud and never sit down during a game!!

Canadian Chocho

February 26th, 2009, 09:10 PM

^^ No need, to explain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Vjf7Q73yk

Overground

February 27th, 2009, 04:19 AM

What a match that was!! They just need to hold on for a draw to advance or a least score 1 in a loss but it's going to be tough down in Mexico.

They will play Houston or Atlante in the Semis but I hope it's Houston. Can you imagine what that will show MLS if Montreal sells out Olympic Stadium and Houston only pull in 10k like they did last night.:cheers:

mr.x

February 27th, 2009, 04:26 AM

http://bcplacestadium.com/images/roofinterior.jpg

2011 Grey Cup coming to Vancouver

By Mike Beamish, Vancouver Sun
February 26, 2009 6:01 PM

A Grey Cup festival culminating with the CFL championship game in 2011 will be the next feature event at a refurbished B.C. Place Stadium following the opening and closing ceremonies of the 2010 Winter Olympics.

Premier Gordon Campbell and B.C. Lions owner David Braley will make the announcement at a joint press conference Friday morning in downtown Vancouver.

The Lions last played host to Grey Cup festival in 2005, when the Vancouver economy received a $40-million jolt from visitor spending, according to Tourism Vancouver.

Vancouver's successful 2011 application represents the third straight year the Grey Cup game has been awarded to a city in Western Canada.

Edmonton was just named host of the 2010 Grey Cup, and Calgary is the site of this year’s game.

mbeamish@vancouversun.com
© Copyright © The Vancouver Sun

http://www.vancouversun.com/Travel/2011+Gr...3144/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/Travel/2011+Grey+coming+Vancouver/1333144/story.html)

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/8936/84899419hy9.jpg

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/1705/1865432ty8.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/245/1654213uv6.jpg

malek

February 27th, 2009, 06:27 AM

isaidso

February 28th, 2009, 02:37 AM

http://bcplacestadium.com/images/roofinterior.jpg

http://www.vancouversun.com/Travel/2011+Gr...3144/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/Travel/2011+Grey+coming+Vancouver/1333144/story.html)

99th Grey Cup to go to Vancouver

That's awesome for Vancouver and a very smart move by league commissioner Cohen. It will be the first big sporting event in a newly refurbished stadium. Cohon seems to capitalize on all the opportunities presented to him.

This begs the question of where the 100th Grey Cup Game will be held. It's looking more and more likely that the centenary anniversary championship of Canada will go to Toronto. With Montreal just hosting, and the next 3 all in the west, Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver respectively; the choices are narrowing.

Ottawa is promised a Grey Cup if they can get Lansdowne Park rebuilt on time, the Bombers will have a great new stadium at the University of Manitoba, while Hamilton looks unlikely given the issues with Ivor Wynne. The dark horse could be Regina. They're, by far, the best football fans in Canada. Will they get rewarded with the 100th Grey Cup? Toronto doesn't really deserve it.

When you try to buy tickets for Impact home games, if your tickets are anywhere near the Ultra's, the Impact organization sends you a warning that these people get pretty loud and never sit down during a game!!

That's ridiculous. Ultra behave the way I expect fans to behave. Ultra aren't the 'problem', it's sedate people. Sports organizations should put out warnings if you have to sit near people who sit down the whole time, are too busy eating their hot dog to support the team, or look like they're on the verge of sleep. At the very least they should give you a discount for being subjected to 'fans' like that. They totally take away from the live sports experience.

Overground

March 4th, 2009, 06:01 AM

Miami has announced today that they are out of MLS expansion.:banana: So this leaves only 4 bids left - Vancouver, Portland, St Louis, and Ottawa.

plenty of links about it but here is one from the NYT - http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/mls-and-barcelona-ciao-for-now/

....Also, Houston is losing to Atlante right now 2 nil so if it remains then Montreal would be facing Atlante in the semis of Champions League if they win Thurs night in Mexico.

isaidso

March 4th, 2009, 10:49 AM

So what happens to the Whitecaps if Vancouver's bid is successful? Will they just move to MLS from the USL, or will their be 2 teams in Vancouver?

Eugene Melnyk's condescending attitude towards football and unwillingness to work with the Ottawa CFL expansion team may come back to bite him in the ass. I'd like Ottawa to get an MLS team, but if that means a soccer stadium in Kanata at the expense of the football stadium in Ottawa, then no thanks! Melnyk can take a hike.

Scotiabank Place was a huge mistake. Let's not make it worse by building another important asset in the middle of nowhere. In that respect, Scotiabank Place is like Toronto's Sheppard TTC subway line.

I hope Ottawa goes ahead with the Lansdowne Live proposal. Bring back football to the nation's capital and in time for the 100th anniversary of our Grey Cup! Do they really have to be the Rough Riders though? Please say no. How about Sooners. Ottawa already has a football team with that name. How about Rams? Then they can bring back that famous 'R' they had on their helmets.

http://www.silverstate55.com/images/CFL/OttawaRR_84-87Mini_01.jpg
http://www.silverstate55.com/images/CFL/OttawaRR_84-87Mini_01.jpg

Overground

March 4th, 2009, 07:06 PM

The Caps would dissolve their USL franchise and it would move over to MLS. Seattle did this and they actual were allowed to bring most of their players as well. There's lots of cities that would love a USL franchise so maybe Ottawa could start there. I just don't know how much interest there is in the sport there. Maybe somewhere like Edmonton or Calgary may be a good idea.

With the Ottawa Rough Riders. Isn't that their original name though, before Saskatchewan? I suppose they couldn't go back to using it again, but there must be some other historical name they could use. So what's happening now with them getting back into the CFL?

habsfan

March 5th, 2009, 08:16 PM

BY the way, the return match betoween the Impact and Santos laguna will be tonight at 10PM in mexico!

Go Impact...get that first goal, and you're almost assured of moving on to the next round!!!

isaidso

March 6th, 2009, 09:41 AM

^^ 5-2 Santos. Montreal eliminated. That 2nd half was excruciating to watch! They were up 3-2 with only a few minutes left. All Montreal needed to do was clear the ball down field and hold on to the ball.

Even when it came down to the last minute of extra time, all they needed to do was kick the ball down the field, but opted to pass it to the Mexican team who proceeded to score 30 seconds later. Montreal collapsed completely, made foolish silly decisions, and got out hustled for almost every ball. Santos deserved to win.

The Caps would dissolve their USL franchise and it would move over to MLS. Seattle did this and they actual were allowed to bring most of their players as well. There's lots of cities that would love a USL franchise so maybe Ottawa could start there. I just don't know how much interest there is in the sport there. Maybe somewhere like Edmonton or Calgary may be a good idea.

With the Ottawa Rough Riders. Isn't that their original name though, before Saskatchewan? I suppose they couldn't go back to using it again, but there must be some other historical name they could use. So what's happening now with them getting back into the CFL?

I see. Vancouver would simply switch leagues, retain the name Whitecaps, and keep most of its roster intact. I imagine the appeal of soccer is fairly uniform in most of Canada, but there are only about 10-12 cities large enough to host a pro soccer team.

The Ottawa Rough Riders were founded in 1876 . In 1925-1926 they changed their name to the Ottawa Senators and the Rough Riders nickname was adopted by the Regina Rugby Club immediately. Ottawa reverted back to the the name Ottawa Rough Riders in 1927, while the Regina team continued to be called the Roughriders, but written as one word. Eventually, the Regina Roughriders became the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

The Ottawa Rough Riders were one of the oldest living professional sports teams in north America till their demise in 1996 and far older than any NFL team. As can be expected, Ottawa is attached to the name it invented and lived with for all but 2 years of its existence. Two teams with the same name is confusing, but what's important is that fans feel a connection to their team and tradition is respected.

In Canadian college sports both the University of Saskatchewan and Saint Mary's University are named 'Huskies'. In the NCAA, both the University of Kentucky and the University of Arizona are named 'Wildcats'. I'm sure there are other examples.

The Hunt ownership group in Ottawa has been granted a CFL expansion team as well as rights to the 2014 Grey Cup. It's conditional on the City of Ottawa backing a new stadium. Clouding the picture has been the MLS bid by Eugene Melnyk who refuses to work with the CFL or the City of Ottawa planning committee which wants key infrastructure built downtown and on designated transit corridors. Melnyk wants a soccer only stadium in Kanata. The City of Ottawa has indicated that it might fund one stadium, but not two.

What does seem likely is that if the City of Ottawa comes through with a downtown stadium, the Ottawa team will respect tradition. At the very least, expect the old Ottawa helmut with the 'R' on it, and probably the old Rough Riders name as well. It's a little odd, but the CFL has been convinced of the wisdom in satisfying the desires of football fans in Ottawa. Studies have made it very clear that they want the Rough Riders name. The following has been posted in the Canada Arena and Stadium thread, but I'll re-post here.

'Lansdowne Live' proposal for an Ottawa CFL team
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/siteplan_large.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/mennnc1701/siteplan_large.jpg

http://www.lansdownelive.ca/images/gallery/stadiumfield_large.jpg
http://www.lansdownelive.ca/images/gallery/stadiumfield.jpg

habsfan

March 6th, 2009, 06:03 PM

5-2 Santos. Montreal eliminated. That 2nd half was excruciating to watch! They were up 3-2 with only a few minutes left. All Montreal needed to do was clear the ball down field and hold on to the ball.

Even when it came down to the last minute of extra time, all they needed to do was kick the ball down the field, but opted to pass it to the Mexican team who proceeded to score 30 seconds later. Montreal collapsed completely, made foolish silly decisions, and got out hustled for almost every ball. Santos deserved to win.

Horrible loss by the impact...i can't believe they choked the way they did!!!

isaidso

March 6th, 2009, 07:07 PM

Horriblek loss by the impact...i can't believe they choked the way they did!!!

At half time, some Mexican fan emailed CBC sports predicting that Santos would come back to win 5-2. The CBC commentator didn't think it was possible, but I had a bad feeling about it 10 minutes into the 2nd half. It was like watching a high school team playing Brazil. The last 25 minutes were very frustratingly difficult to watch.

If there's a bright side to all this, Montreal got further than anyone thought they could. Perhaps, this is the start of Canadian teams starting to field competitive club teams. More good news, but on the baseball front: Team Canada pounds the New York Yankees 6-0 as they gear up for a showdown with Team USA at Skydome on Saturday.

Canadians silence potent Yankees bats
Diamond tosses 2 shutout innings in World Baseball Classic tuneup
The Canadian Press

Atlanta Braves prospect Scott Diamond, about to face big-league hitters for the first time, was warming up in the Canada bullpen when he heard the New York Yankees lineup announced to the Legends Field crowd in Florida.

Melky Cabrera, Nick Swisher, Mark Teixeira, Hideki Matsui, Xavier Nady ...

"I was thinking to myself. 'This is going to be a little bit of an adventure,'" said the 22-year-old from Guelph, Ont. "I'm really happy with the way it turned out."

And so he should be.

The left-hander, hoping to make the jump to double-A this spring, threw two scoreless innings, striking out two in Canada's 6-0 exhibition victory over the Yankees on Thursday afternoon in Tampa Bay.

xzmattzx

March 6th, 2009, 08:46 PM

isaidso

March 7th, 2009, 05:13 PM

College Hoops elation for Dalhousie
Dalhousie beats Cape Breton 78-77 in front or 5,149 at the AUS Conference semi-finals in Halifax. Dal to meet national power house St. FX tonight at the Metro Centre.

Simon Farine scored 28 points, including the go-ahead three-point play, as Dalhousie survived a furious Cape Breton rally to move on for a shot at its first conference title since 1996. "It feels great, especially to win a game like that," said Farine, who added eight rebounds and five assists and has 73 points in two games this weekend.

Dalhousie has won six games in a row following a mid-season slump that culminated in a pair of blowout losses in Cape Breton. "We’ve thought all year that we were one of the better teams in the conference," Farine said. "Hopefully we’ll come out tomorrow and win the game."

The Tigers started the third quarter on a 17-2 run and built a 19-point advantage, but Cape Breton came charging back. Phil Nkrumah stole the ball and went in alone for a dunk to give the Capers a 62-61 lead, capping a 25-5 run. Cape Breton led 73-71 when Farine made a one-handed floater in the lane, drew a foul and sank the free throw to put the Tigers ahead 74-73 with 1:13 to play.

The Capers had a chance to take the lead when they forced a Dalhousie turnover with 11.3 seconds left, but then they lost the ball out of bounds themselves and had to foul Andrew Sullivan. He hit two free throws with 4.3 seconds remaining to put Dal ahead 78-75.

On Cape Breton’s last possession, Fraser drove the length of the court but went for a layup instead of pulling up for a three-pointer, giving Dal a 78-77 win. "We didn’t get the play that we wanted to get," said Cape Breton coach Jim Charters. Fraser had 18 points for the Capers, while Nkrumah had 18 with 17 rebounds before fouling out with 4:41 to play.

Notes — Today’s final is at 7:30 p.m.... St. F.X. is playing for its first title since winning a sixth in seven years in 2006.

GO TIGERS! Best sports news of the year for me, by a long shot.
http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq260/isaidso_photos/2318171116_720e04b40d_m.jpg?t=1236534039 http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq260/isaidso_photos/2318175302_51ba17248b_m.jpg?t=1236533769

G-roy

March 7th, 2009, 05:27 PM

Can someone explain how the hockey leagues work in Canada? I know that the CHl league (OHL, QMJHL, WHL) are the top, and that's where people get drafted from, but what about these Junior A and Junior AAA and Tier II stuff? What is the heirarchy?

The three major leagues of the CHL (QMJHL, OHL, WHL) are the hierarchy in Canadian junior hockey. Players usually choose the CHL if they are wanting a fast track to being drafted or getting to the NHL, its also a bigger and faster league.

Now I know the BCHL junior A league is starting to have a lot more kids drafted into the NHL but the difference is that playing Junior A makes you eligable for scholarships to the NCAA. Once you play one game in the CHL you are disqualified from joining the NCAA. Here out west, could be different out East, but you will find the faster, smaller more skilled players playing in the BCHL junior A playing for a scholarship making it a fun league to watch skill wise.

But i would much rather prefer the NHL as it is the closest to NHL my town will get.

isaidso

March 8th, 2009, 01:29 AM

Just got back from Skydome. Canada loses 6-5 to the United States. Canada trailed 6-4 after 8 innings. In the 9th, the entire crowd of 42,314 stood and cheered. Canada scored one run, but came just short. It was an awesome game, but now the attention shifts to a 6.30 showdown on Monday against the loser of the Italy - Venezuela game.

Canada must win that game to earn a chance at advancing.

isaidso

March 8th, 2009, 02:05 PM

Dalhousie books a ticket to the March tournament
5,587 take in the AUS Championship at the Metro Centre

Long time coming!
http://www.universitysport.ca/e/photos/dal-Mbball-action09-AUS_banner09.jpg
Beattie leads Tigers past X-Men for first AUS hoop title since 1996
By CHAD LUCAS Sports Reporter
Sun. Mar 8 - 6:21 AM

Dalhousie Tigers’ Yannick Walcott, left, tries to get the ball away from St. Francis Xavier X-Men’s Alberto Rodriguez during the AUS men’s basketball championship game Saturday at the Metro Centre. The Tigers won 72-60 to take their first title since 1996. Legions of fans stormed the court, leaving a mess of splattered black body paint, deflated Thunder Sticks and dented noisemakers in their wake. Overhead, "Eye of the Tiger" blared on an endless loop. It’s been a while since the basketball Dalhousie Tigers had reason to celebrate like this, so they made the party a good one.

Josh Beattie changed the game with a barrage of third-quarter three-pointers and the Tigers held off the top-seed St. Francis Xavier X-Men 72-60 to win their first AUS conference championship since 1996 on Saturday at the Metro Centre. "This feels amazing," said tournament MVP Simon Farine, who played all but the final 12 seconds of the weekend for the Tigers and scored 89 points in three games. "We’ll definitely go out and celebrate for a while tonight, but we’ll get our rest because now we have to get ready for nationals."

After beating Acadia by three points and Cape Breton by one to reach the final, Dalhousie survived a miserable first half on Saturday in which they shot just 11-for-42 from the field. St. F.X. wasn’t much better at 10-for-31, and the two sides were tied 27-27 at halftime. But when the Tigers’ shots started to fall, they fell in a deluge that sank the X-Men for good. Beattie hit six straight baskets, five of them three-pointers that barely ruffled the mesh, to pour in 17 points in the first five minutes of the third quarter. Farine sank a three for good measure as Dalhousie took a 49-32 lead, and St. F.X. drew no closer than six points the rest of the way.

An ecstatic Beattie, a sophomore guard from Bedford, said he’s never had a stretch like that before, especially on such a big stage. He credited divine inspiration. "Something just clicked," Beattie said. "I’ll be honest with you, I’ve got to give all the glory to God. It’s because of Him I’ve been so successful this season." Beattie finished with 25 points for the Tigers, while Farine had 16 with 11 rebounds and seven assists. Stephen Lopez chipped in 10 points and Sandy Veit grabbed 14 rebounds.

Meanwhile the Tigers will prepare for just their second appearance ever at nationals. It’s a big step for a school that until last season hadn’t posted a winning record since 1999. "Last year and this year I thought we started to earn some respect," said Farine. "Hopefully now people will look at us as one of the best teams, if not the best team in the conference."

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq260/isaidso_photos/P1000381.jpg?t=1236533907