Does anyone think there will be a tenth team or eleventh team anytime soon. A tenth team would make playoffs a lot more fair, and games a lot easier to schedule. What city do you think would be next in line for expansion? I would guess either Quebec City or Halifax would be great contenders. There has also been talk of a team in Saint John.

I thought the talk was in Moncton not Saint John. Either way I would like to see a team in Quebec City, Halifax, Moncton, Saskatoon and Victoria. This would make it a 14 team league. With 7 inthe east and 7 in the West. That should make things intresting.

I don't know too much about the CFL, but the Atlantic Provinces need a professional team to root for. A CFL franchise wold be the most practical.

How about another for Ontario? Like, London perhaps...

i think Halifax should get the next team

I meant to write in London as a poll option, but I had already submitted it. If people want to vote for London, vote for the 2nd team in a CFL city. It's not too far from Hamilton anyway. Or maybe Kelowna too.

Has anyone heard the rumor from last weekend about having four offers to move the Alouettes from Montreal to the US? Amongst the cities, Toledo, Ohio was mentioned.


@Algonquin, I definitely agree with you about their being a dearth of professional teams in the East.

@Big W, I believe you're right about Moncton, but Saint John is bigger and any team in Saint John would probably market itself as the New Brunswick team anyway (or even the Maritime or Atlantic provinces team). Maybe a 14-team league is stretching it. The quality of the player and the attendence level would diminish. Anyone remember the ill-fated expansion into the US?

If not, there were the:
*Sacremento Gold Miners (1993 and 94) who became the
*San Antonio Texans (1995; in 1993 there was a separate CFL team named the Texans who never made it to the field)
*Baltimore Stallions who won the Grey Cup and moved to Montreal the following year (1994 and 95)
*Shreveport Pirates (1994 and 95)
*Las Vegas Posse (1994)
*Birmingham Barracudas (1995)
*Memphis Mad Dogs (1995)


A few interesting facts, Interesting Fact number 1: Surprisingly the Baltimore Stallions (who wanted to be named the CFL Colts but couldn't because the NFL forbade them) and Sacremento Gold Miners/San Antonio Texans were financially successful.

Interesting Fact number 2: The US teams from 1993 on (when it was only Sacremento) had their own Southern Division in the CFL, and Winnipeg was sent to the Eastern League (which no one liked).

Interesting Fact number 3: Memphis and Baltimore now have NFL teams (well the Tennessee Titans were based out of Memphis before their stadium in Nashville was built. Tennessee was an expansion team for 2002, and the Cleveland Browns moved to Baltimore in 1995.

Interesting Fact number 4: Even though the Shreveport Pirates were unsuccessful, there was an attempt that fell through to move the team to Norfolk in 1996. There was also an attempt to move the Birmingham Barracudas to Miami as the Miami Manatees for 1996. Interesting fact number five: There was a team in 1981 named the Atlantic Schooners that never made it to the field.

London, Ontario is larger than Halifax, is it not? Halifax only has 300,000 people -smaller than London, Kitchener - Waterloo, etc which, in their areas, are pushing 400 to 500K.
London has some wealth and a corporate base as well -- insurance industry, Labbatts, etc.

But K-W are adjacent to Hamilton and Toronto, both of whom are struggling already. The London itself is 450k, so it wouldn't even need another city to support a team, in theory. The Halifax CMA is 375k, but there's nothing professional for hours, whereas London has Detroit, Buffalo, Toronto, and Hamilton all within a couple of hours.

The Atlantic provinces are isolated from the rest of Canada because they have no pro sports. The grey cup is a very Canadian event that the east coast has no part in. I would love to see a Halifax team.

I
@Big W, I believe you're right about Moncton, but Saint John is bigger and any team in Saint John would probably market itself as the New Brunswick team anyway (or even the Maritime or Atlantic provinces team). Maybe a 14-team league is stretching it. The quality of the player and the attendence level would diminish. Anyone remember the ill-fated expansion into the US?

Your right that adding that many teams right away would dilute the talent. However I think that if you did do that with maintaining good fiscal controls you may see some expansion. So maybe add a team every 3 or 4 years so that its nto so fast as to dilute the talent.

I don't know maybe start with Halifax. I just think that if it were the only game in town it would be like the Saskatchewan Roughriders. Everyone is on board and the province would rally around them. The same would happen in New Brunswick I would assume. And since there would only be 9 home games a year and a couple playoff games I am sure you can get 25,000 out per game in both places. Maybe a team out in St. Johns but I am not sure about the fan base there supporting a team due to smaller population when compared with NB and NS. Thats it for the Atlantic 2 teams. One in Halifax and one in Moncton as they already have some of teh infrastrature in place.

For Quebec there arent many choices on where to put another team. Quebec City is large enough to have thier own team and would support it as well. No other areas have a large enough population.

For Ontario there are many metros that have the population however as was mentioned earlier in SW Ontario there are lots of choices for football with 2 CFL teams closeby so I doubt it will mean anything. So if your in Windsor or St Catherines you will not go as the Bills and Lions are your local teams. I would also say that KW is too close to Toronto so I doubt how sucessfull this team will be. London is the best bet but I dont think it will happen as there are many other places in Canada where I see greater success.

In the West there is no place in Manitoba (as Brandon is the second largest and its at what 40,000 people) Saskatoon is the only posibility in Saskatchewan but I dont think they can support 2 teams in Saskatchewan. In Alberta once you get past Edmonton and Calgary the largest city is Red Deer and they are at what 75,000 people. Not going to happen. British Columbia has 2 posibilities. Victoria being first and then Kelowna as the Okanogan area has close to 300,000 I think. It way work there

Halifax deserves a CFL team.

I voted for Halifax

I dont think any Canadian team other then Toronto or Montreal can handle a second team

C'mon, you know you want Red Deer... :jk:

I can see Halifax getting a team...perhaps Kelowna in the future as it is getting quite large...

Kelowna.. no... 110,000 just 4 hrs away from Vancouver which already has a team which is supposed to cover all of BC, The BC Lions. If kelowna or anywhere in Bc for that fact got another team, BC Lions would have to change to Vancouver Lions, plus, Kelowna is too small and its only 4 hrs away from Vancouver in a province of only 4 million. Ontario has almost 13 million, which is why they can occupy 3 teams. Kelowna no.

Haha, it would never work to split saskatchewan into 2 teams. the whole province is behind the riders, and it runs deep so i dont think that people in saskatoon or around there would flip so easily. And for another thing, i dont think toronto or montreal could support another team. montreal has more of a chance than toronto. toronto has been in quite a tough spot financially lately, but it should get better once they get out of the skydome. I also thinkt that halifax is the most obvious choice. they have been talking about it for years anyways. plus it would even out the divisions seeing as there is more competition in the west at 5 teams.

I'd say a Maritime team. Halifax perhaps?

Halifax. it's about time we give the east coast some attention, and build them a stadium.

I once made the joke that a NB CFL team should be in Sussex, since it's almost exactly a 1 hour drive from each of the 3 largest cities in NB (a combined population base of over 300,000 in the triangle). I could see Halifax supporting one, but province-wide support would be a stretch. It would probably cover most of the mainland, but I doubt Cape Bretoners or people from Yarmouth would drive 3-4 or more hours on a regular basis to see a game...maybe once in a while though. And I think Halifax and Moncton would be too close to see two teams coexist successfully...right away anyway. They'd be competing for the same fan base in the Truro, Amherst, New Glasgow triangle most likely.

Two Maritime teams can be successful, but if the second's going to be in Moncton, it might have to wait a few years. St. John's might be able to handle one as well, but travel would be a lot worse for a Newfoundland team than any other Maritime team (I know it's on a different scale, but it's a major problem for MUN when compared to other universities).

All in all, I think Halifax and Quebec City would be the next two logical expansions. :)

I think Victoria, because its on the island, and people dont like to have to sit on a two hour ferry just to go to a football game, they're practically stuck on that isnald and They need some sort of entertainment, besides, the island does have roughly 800,000 people and i think it would do ok there.

I think Quebec city would be a great choise because football has gained alot of popularity as of late. Université Laval draws good crowds and has one of the best teams in the country. It would also allow a renewed rivalry between Montreal and Quebec like the good'ol Nordiques vs Canadiens rivalry back it the day. La Résistance de Québec vs Les Allouettes de Montréal.

Quebec and Halifax are and I repeat are the only two logical choices. No where out west will get a team. London would the 3rd option 10 or 20 years down the road. That is it.

London?? Why? Ontario has enough teams! Hamilton, TO, Ottawa, why london?

In 10 or 20 years which I said Ontario will have even more people. Only a fool would put another team in Ontario now. Ontario also has the biggest population so it makes sense they get another franchise. Of course only after Quebec and Halifax. Also you want an even team league. You don't want an odd number. London is the only logically choice.

Vancouver or Toronto cant handle two franchises, montreal maybe, another one in saskatchewan possibly or in halifax.

In 10 or 20 years which I said Ontario will have even more people. Only a fool would put another team in Ontario now. Ontario also has the biggest population so it makes sense they get another franchise. Of course only after Quebec and Halifax. Also you want an even team league. You don't want an odd number. London is the only logically choice.
Well, I guess you're right. London is a good choice, I was thinking of maybe windsor, but nah, they have the NFL just 2 minutes away.

I think Victoria third would make more sense than London, though another team in southern Ontario would be a viable option if it was placed well (most likely in London).

London should get a CFL team in the next 10-20 years. It's the cultural and economic center of southwestern Ontario and has a greater area population of 500,000+.
It also has a large blue collar sector which is great for sports teams since blue collar fans tend to be very loyal people.

London and Victoria should get CFL teams. I think Victoria more because there is no sports team or anything like that of the sort for miles and you have to leave the island to go to Vancouver to catch a game and That can be streeful for lots of people because the lines are a bitch and the wait is ok but having to do that a lot is pretty bad. Victoria needs something quick! I dont care if its a hockey team or a WHL team, it needs something!

I think Victoria, because its on the island, and people dont like to have to sit on a two hour ferry just to go to a football game, they're practically stuck on that isnald and They need some sort of entertainment, besides, the island does have roughly 800,000 people and i think it would do ok there.

Victoria is stuck on the southern tip of the island, it has maybe only 400k people in its immediate area. I'm not sure if people from even the middle of the island, like in Nanaimo or Port Alberni, would want to drive almost 2 hours to see a football game.

Halifax would be a good choice, or maybe Quebec City.

The CFL should expand to this

East
Montreal
Halifax
Toronto
Hamilton
Ottawa
Quebec or London

West
BC
Calgary
Edmonton
Winipeg
Saskatchewan
Victoria - Almost 500,000 people on the southern part of the Island.

Why halifax? Its as big as Victoria, and as isolated, its even more isolated. And, people wouldnt want to drive however long it takes from another large city in NS to get to Halifax to see a football game

Iqualit

^ CFL doesnt require a large or afluent population base. The isolation helps because if the CFL was in Halifax it would have almost no compition. People will travel to Halifax from other cities in Atlanic Canada; Charlotte, Moncton and Fredricton are all with in a few hours away. Almost 15% of Canadian CFL viewers are from the maritimes.

I could see London getting a CFL team because of its size and location and the market. But it may not be for a few years, because remember what happened with Toronto and Hamilton teams both going through potential bankruptcy and had to be taken over by the CFL. But since then, I think both teams have recovered very well for just two years, in fact, attendances this year, I believe were pretty high this year, in fact, I think maybe a couple of Hamilton games had over 30,000 in attendance. There was also a large crowd in the Skydome last game with the Argos. If London builds a new stadium, or expands TD Waterhouse, they'll have a good chance of a CFL team. The game in 2002 between Hamilton and Toronto had over 25,000 I believe in attendance, unless if I have the attendance confused with the capacity with additional seats of TD Waterhouse.

However, Halifax/Quebec City are DEFINITELY capable as well because of their location far from Montreal and geographic locations, not to mention being the capitals of their perspective provinces. They can also DRAW people from far away, particularly Halifax, which is probably the biggest economic city in Atlantic Canada.

Why halifax? Its as big as Victoria, and as isolated, its even more isolated. And, people wouldnt want to drive however long it takes from another large city in NS to get to Halifax to see a football game

People from other parts of BC aren't going to drive to Victoria to see a game. People in NS would probably be more willing to drive a little longer since they don't have any other high profile team. Anyways Victoria is right next to Vancouver which has the Canucks and the Lions, a new team should go to a place with no national franchise like NS or NB.

Don't overestimate Halifax's sports drawing power. It's still one of the next two logical expansions in my view, but it's main drawing power (one out of every two home games) probably wouldn't extend much further than Truro (just over 1 hour away), and would be about the same "time" distance in each direction. However, in this radius, there are about 450,000 (or more) people.

I also agree with benji45's argument for Victoria, and it has a similar population base as Halifax (and it works for balance too if Quebec or London gets a team as well). And I'd choose Quebec over London because, even though the population bases are similar, London would put three CFL teams (and an NFL team) in a small radius, whereas Quebec would have Montreal about 2 hours away (or maybe 1.5), and Ottawa 3-4 hours away. Some QC people might go to Montreal to see a game, but where they have to pass by Montreal to get to Ottawa, I doubt many go further to see CFL football. And there's always been a sports rivalry between Quebec City and Montreal since pro sports came to the two cities. Also, I think southern Ontario expansion, though it should happen, should wait until the Argonaughts and Ti-Cats are financially stable. :)

I am not against any of these cities having a team, but this seems to be the most plausible expansion plan to me.

Well, I guess you're right. London is a good choice, I was thinking of maybe windsor, but nah, they have the NFL just 2 minutes away.

Yeah, nobody in Windsor even follows the CFL, it's always buried in the back section of the newspaper. The Detroit Lions have a huge following though.

Really? Detroit Lions seem like a big underdog to me, but hey the NFL is the NFL right?

Blitz Windsor is a huge football city!

It is for the NFL, but I can't see a CFL franchise doing well there. London would make much more sense.

I still don't see how Southern Ontario can support 3 CFL teams. I mean, it's only 9 or so million people. Nowhere, even the NFL is there that much team per population. Quebec and Halifax, and then Kelowna. Why not Victoria first? I don't think they're football-hungry, and they're pretty close to Vancouver. Kelowna's poised to grow faster, and I think bigger too.

Having a CFL team in Victoria would sort of be like Hamilton whereas Victoria and Vancouver. Hamilton and Toronto have high rivalry. Today is the Eastern final and there's 8 bus ready to take Ti Cats fans to the Skydome, over 200 people. Gonna be a big crowd at Skydome today. This is the first time ever that Skydome is hosting an Eastern final, it usually happens at Ivor Wynne.

Every since Bob Young took over the Ti Cats the attedence has never been lower then around 25,000. It's a complete turn around. Last year Hamilton only won ONE game.

The Okanagan Valley wouldn't be a bad choice but it'll have to be many years down the road as the population expands. Right now there's maybe max 400k people in the valley. I don't know if people would be willing to drive from Kamloops to Kelowna to watch a game as it's a good distance away. People in the interior really support their teams however (eg. the WHL Blazers), maybe it could work sometime down the road.

Victoria would work well it has a metro area population of over 326,000 and there are other citys with in an 1.5 hr drive including Nanaimo which has a population of almost 100,000. So basicly a Victoria CFL team would have a fan base of almost 500,000. The CFL could divide the leage like this.

http://www.cfl.ca/CFLImages03/logo_div_east_small.gif
Toronto
Winipeg
Ottawa
Montreal
Hamilton

http://www.cfl.ca/CFLImages03/logo_div_west_small.gif
BC
Calgary
Edmonton
Saskatewan
Victoria

But I still think Halifax will get a CFL team first. As for the Okanagan I doubt it will happen any time soon.

Victoria would work well it has a metro area population of over 326,000 and there are other citys with in an 1.5 hr drive including Nanaimo which has a population of almost 100,000. So basicly a Victoria CFL team would have a fan base of almost 500,000. The CFL could divide the leage like this.

http://www.cfl.ca/CFLImages03/logo_div_east_small.gif
Toronto
Winipeg
Ottawa
Montreal
Hamilton

http://www.cfl.ca/CFLImages03/logo_div_west_small.gif
BC
Calgary
Edmonton
Saskatewan
Victoria

But I still think Halifax will get a CFL team first. As for the Okanagan I doubt it will happen any time soon.

Winnipeg in the east wouldn't be a such a good idea, the eastern division needs another team that is actually in the east instead of just lifting the closest west team from its division. How about Quebec, Halifax, and Victoria all getting teams? That would even out the divisions. :cheers:

I still don't see how Southern Ontario can support 3 CFL teams. I mean, it's only 9 or so million people. Nowhere, even the NFL is there that much team per population. Quebec and Halifax, and then Kelowna. Why not Victoria first? I don't think they're football-hungry, and they're pretty close to Vancouver. Kelowna's poised to grow faster, and I think bigger too.

It already does support 3 teams (Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton)

Actually, Ontario's population is over 12 million, with the vast majority living in Southern Ontario. When comparing provinces by population, Ontario seems like the best candidate for another team (well, of course Quebec as well, with 7.5 million and only one CFL team). Representation by population, right?

And London would be the 4th largest city in Ontario (if we exclude Mississauga).

Not that I care too much, just explaining the logic. Quebec City or the maritimes could use a franchise.

No, Ottawa is in Eastern Ontario. It is in the southern part of Ontario, but it is not in Southern Ontario. My population estimate for Southern Ontario is pretty close. The 613 area code itself has one and a half million, plus Northern Ontario. And it's not only representation by population, it's also by geographical area. Otherwise, Saskatchewan having a team would warrant twelve teams in Ontario!

No, Ottawa is in Eastern Ontario. It is in the southern part of Ontario, but it is not in Southern Ontario. My population estimate for Southern Ontario is pretty close. The 613 area code itself has one and a half million, plus Northern Ontario. And it's not only representation by population, it's also by geographical area. Otherwise, Saskatchewan having a team would warrant twelve teams in Ontario!

you must remember that there are saskatchewan fans all through canada though... our greatest export is people :tongue2:

but i understand what you mean. i dont think southern ontario needs another team for a while, with both the hamilton team and toronto team going through financial difficulties, and the ottawa organisation only in for 2 years now again, its still a pretty fragile market. granted support is increasing but what happens if they have a bad season again... other markets have proven that win or lose the teams are supported. so give a couple more years maybe decades before a new team is placed there...

for the time being halifax, and quebec city seem to have the greatest possibilities, with victoria in there too, but i think victoria should be a bit further down the road as well.

No, Ottawa is in Eastern Ontario. It is in the southern part of Ontario, but it is not in Southern Ontario. My population estimate for Southern Ontario is pretty close. The 613 area code itself has one and a half million, plus Northern Ontario. And it's not only representation by population, it's also by geographical area. Otherwise, Saskatchewan having a team would warrant twelve teams in Ontario!

oh, well.... blah. Same shit, right?

The main thing holding Halifax back is getting a stadium. The province and city don't want to put their parts in unless the prospective owners group can pretty much guarantee a CFL franchise in the city, and the CFL needs the stadium before it can award a franchise. :( Halifax would be a good next move, provided they can get the stadium situation taken care of. After that, all we'd need is a QMJHL team in Fredericton (now that Saint John has one for next year) and the Maritimes would be taken care of for sports teams. ;)

does the CFL have anough players to expand to 3 more cities?

I think there could be players if they pillage some other leagues such as arena football and nfl europe. But I think 3 teams at once may be too much. Maybe a new team every 3 years?

Victoria is getting it's first pro-hockey league in many years (ECHL), so let's wait and see how that pans out. As for a football team, Vancouver is close to both Nanaimo and Victoria so it might be a little tight if Victoria were to get its own team (worst part abouta accessing Vancouver is the cost and time of ferry travel, plus overnight expenses if its a late game).

However, I wouldn't doubt the support would be huge for a team on the Island. The island is known for producing some amazing rugby players and the communities are fairly pro-football.

i read somewhere that there's no other place in Quebec where you could add a team apart from Quebec city.

No one obviously though of Laval city which is situated in the northern suburbs and has 350000 population by itself. You can add an easy 200-250+k from other towns surrounding it in the further north suburbs.

Laval is a very rich and developped city and growing at a crazy rate. I'm pretty sure it could handle a team by itself even if its really close to Montreal.

Halifax, being the capital of Atlantic Canada. Also, they seemed to be starved of any professional sports.

Victoria is getting it's first pro-hockey league in many years (ECHL), so let's wait and see how that pans out. As for a football team, Vancouver is close to both Nanaimo and Victoria so it might be a little tight if Victoria were to get its own team (worst part abouta accessing Vancouver is the cost and time of ferry travel, plus overnight expenses if its a late game).

However, I wouldn't doubt the support would be huge for a team on the Island. The island is known for producing some amazing rugby players and the communities are fairly pro-football.

It takes over 3.5 hours if u drive and take the ferry from Vancouver to Victoria. I think that there would be no or at most a minimal impact on the lions attendance. I think Victoria should get a team in future expantion.

You're right crazyjoeda, it does take a good chunk of time to get to Vancouver. It would be interesting to have a market study done and get a good indication of the possibilities on the Island.

Québec City deserves a team. Just look at the attendance of the Rouge et Or. The team uses to draw at least 17,000 each game when the weather is not bad. There are big cities in a 250 km range and a rivalry between MTL would be crazy (like the Nordiques vs Canadiens)

^I agree Quebec City deserves a team, just because of the popularity of football there, and no major leagues after the Nordiques left. Look at Hamilton and Winnipeg. Both the same size as your town and both with CFL teams. I am also torn between QC and Halifax. Having a team in Halifax would anchor the league firmly to the nation... coast to coast. I would only accept both, not just one. To hell with having an equal number of teams in both divisions.

^I agree Quebec City deserves a team, just because of the popularity of football there, and no major leagues after the Nordiques left. Look at Hamilton and Winnipeg. Both the same size as your town and both with CFL teams. I am also torn between QC and Halifax. Having a team in Halifax would anchor the league firmly to the nation... coast to coast. I would only accept both, not just one. To hell with having an equal number of teams in both divisions.

I agree... the league doesnt even have equal divisions now anyways. there are 5 teams in the west and 4 in the east. I find that kind of sad since most of the population is in the east... so i think they could warrent 2 more teams (being halifax and quebec)

The CFL commissioner said earlier this week that by 2008 he wants the CFL to be coast to coast with a team in Halifax.

Other topics mentioned in Wright's state-of-the-union address were salary cap enforcement and league expansion.


Wright said the league would change the way it enforces the $2.55-million salary cap, but wouldn't give any details. In the past, the CFL audited its nine teams and those over the amount were fined or received punishment by way of lost draft picks or negotiation list players.


It's no secret that Wright wants to see the league add a 10th franchise and he reiterated that point in Friday's speech, saying he'd like one by 2008.


Wright said the new team would likely be in Atlantic Canada, but only if a 25,000-seat stadium was in place and if the league was confident the new franchise would be able to sustain itself.


Halifax, Moncton, Quebec City and London, Ont., have all been mentioned before as potential expansion centres but none has a proper stadium in place.

hah! u guys actually care about the cfl? lol

Ofcourse they do? Its the Canadian Football league? Its Canada?

hah! u guys actually care about the cfl? lol

Its way better then the NFL.

hah! u guys actually care about the cfl? lol

Bigger balls than them redneck yankees! :lol:

^and bigger fields! And, We have the largest Retractable roof in the world in Toronto and the worlds largest air supported dome in the world in Vancouver.

hah! u guys actually care about the cfl? lol

^ we don't always have to submit to American culture, lolz.

and also, the CFL is about a century older than the NFL.

and also, the CFL is about a century older than the NFL.
wow i didnt know that

Three downs is also better than four. This forces a team to make bigger plays, since there are less chances to get a first down.

Quebec City and Halifax would both make more sense than Victoria, Kelowna or London, at least for now. Yeah, maybe it's an x hour ferry ride from Victoria to Vancouver, but those two cities are MUCH MUCH MUCH closer together than Halifax is to Montreal, or even Quebec City to Montreal. Also, these two cities are home to the two top college football teams in the country, Laval and St. Mary's respectively. The only obstacle I can think of in Halifax's case is the stadium problem. However I heard that there have been tentative plans to build one in Shannon Park, under the MacKay bridge...

As for another franchise in Ontario, I think Thunder Bay deserves to be considered, it's much more isolated than London, Kitchener-Waterloo
or Windsor and there are no pro sports teams there. Sure the population is like a 1/4 of that of the other cities but hey, Regina has a team...

Then again, Southern Ontario may be able to eventually build a new franchise...consider that Oakland and San Fransisco each have their own NFL teams.

Oh, and about a team in NB, I have a feeling it would be in Saint John, since the franchise would almost definitely be funded by the Irvings.

You're probably right that the Irving's would want a piece of a CFL team (what don't they want a piece of out here :| ), but the talk thusfar has been about Moncton. But, like I said earlier, it would take some time before two teams could coexist successfully in the Maritimes, so Halifax would most likely go first, assuming they can get a stadium. As it is now, it seems to be just a race between the two cities for who can build the stadium first.

Regina's team isn't only for Regina, but also Saskatoon and the rest of Saskatchewan. Whereas, Thunder Bay is fairly isolated, maybe 200k at most that would go to a game.

The southern Ontario teams need to do better for there to be any mention of a third southern Ontario team (London or K-W).

Here's how it should be set up by 2010, when all the cities can get their financing and stadium issues out of the way:

East
----
Hamilton
Toronto
Ottawa
Montréal
Québec
Moncton
Halifax

West
----
Victoria
Vancouver
Kelowna
Calgary
Edmonton
Saskatchewan
Winnipeg

Kitchener-Waterloo is on a big building spree to start work on its sporting facilites. Its sniffing out the idea of a Commonwealth Games (don't laugh but Victoria & Hamilton are past smaller host cities) but maybe a CFL team is behind it. Still, I don't think we have a snowballs chance in hell of that happening with Hamilton and Toronto right at our door. It would either be a blessing or a curse for our chances. London, Thunder Bay and Windsor have geography on their side. The only 'sure thing' I can think of is Halifax, maybe Quebec City?

Thunder Bay is a dream, they are not going to receive a franchise in the next 50 years. London is 10 years down the road at the very least. Kelowna is another dream. I have a few friends here at Uni who are from Victoria and they all say football means nothing in Victoria it is all about rugby out there. Actually they couldn't believe how popular football was here in Southern Ontario. We do love football here, we just don't love the CFL for some strange reason.

Quebec needs to add 10, 000 or so seats to PEPS. Halifax needs a stadium period. St. Mary's field is in the middle of the campus they cannot add to that stadium. They need a new one. Considering how hard it was for the Argos to get a stadium in Toronto, I will put my money on Quebec receiving a team first. Quebec has a huge population and only one team. They can for sure support another team. Quebec also has a renewed love for football.

The only way I see London getting a team in the CFL is if Toronto and/or Hamilton lost one through relocation or contraction. There simply isn't that much of a market. Border cities in Ontario are NFL-hooked, even though they are in Southern Ontario.

Amongst the large populated provinces (ON, BC and QC), Ontario and BC have one team per 4 million or so, Québec should have a second. IMHO AB, SK, and MB have teams per capita because they are more isolated (in geography and from other pro sports) and I guess can get "behind their team" more.

^ Ya thats true Calgary, Edmonton, Regina and Winipeg are in the middle of no where as far as large. Vancouver is just 2.5hrs from Seattle which has NFL, MLB and the NBA but only ever here of people going down there for the Mariners.

Dec 11, 2004

UdeM eyed as site of CFL field
Idea of stadium on university grounds 'has been tossed around;' Premier backs quest to land professional football franchise for Hub City

As Moncton continues its quest to land a Canadian Football League franchise, informal discussions are taking place with l'Université de Moncton about locating a football stadium on university land.

Moncton is in direct competition with Halifax for a CFL team as the league eyes eastern expansion.

Sources familiar with the CFL dossier indicate there are two prime Moncton locations, with easy highway access, on the short list for the stadium site. UdeM is one of them.

"The idea has been tossed around in the past," said Paul-Emile Benoit, the university's director of communications. "The area behind the CEPS building has been considered for such a facility because of its proximity to the sports complex.

"There has been no formal approach that I am aware of, but I'm sure the university, if the city wants to discuss the possibility, the university would be willing to examine the concept."

Putting a football stadium in the heart of a university campus is nothing new for the CFL. The Montreal Alouettes play their home games at Molson Stadium at McGill University and the Toronto Argonauts just inked a $70-million deal to build a 25,000-seat outdoor complex at York University.

The federal government is contributing $27 million to the new Argos stadium and the provincial government is anteing up another $8 million. York University is donating the land and $15 million, with the Argonauts picking up the final $20 million.

Since moving back to Montreal, the Alouettes have pioneered the concept of creating demand for tickets by hosting their home games in a smaller venue. Tickets are in such high demand, Montreal plans to boost its stadium capacity to 25,000 00from 20,202.

This tactic was emulated by Toronto in the York

University deal and also by the Ottawa Renegades. Before the Ottawa Roughriders folded in the mid-1990s, Frank Clair Stadium held more than 30,000 seats. When the Renegades returned to the nation's capital, the team owners dropped the seating capacity to create a cozier atmosphere.

Playing host to a professional football team is a big deal for a university in terms of additional revenue and increased profile. When the Als moved into Molson Stadium, the CFL franchise paid the university rent that was based on a percentage of the concession revenues and the on-field logos. In the future, the team plans to pay a flat fee for the facility.

Having a CFL team call a local university home is also significant from a psychological standpoint because it offers instant national credibility within the sporting and business community.

Coun. Steve Mitton, who is spearheading the city's committee exploring the CFL franchise, said he's intrigued by the l'Universite de Moncton idea but insists that any future stadium must be centrally located to welcome fans from all corners of the Maritimes.

"Wherever a facility is, it needs to be somewhere that is easily accessible to the region," Mitton said.

"That is a huge consideration when we look at a site."

Moncton's quest for a Canadian Football League franchise took a major step forward yesterday when Premier Bernard Lord threw his personal support behind the project.

"I don't want to punt the issue. Yes, I am willing to be a quarterback," Lord said. "If my assistance can be helpful, I am certainly willing to consider that."

The premier confirmed his support for the growing movement to lure a CFL team to Moncton after being questioned by Moncton North Liberal MLA Michael Murphy in the legislative assembly. The provincial government isn't prepared to put any funding into the professional football franchise at this time but Murphy said it's important to have Lord's support.

"If this ever comes to fruition, it will be a watershed moment for the south of the province, if not for the entire province," Murphy said. "It means jobs and growth and prosperity."

In the meantime, Moncton is trying to land an exhibition game for next year.

Sat, November 27, 2004
CFL Maritime exhibition match key to expansion
By CP

SAINT JOHN, N.B. -- Canadian Football League commissioner Tom Wright hopes next June's exhibition game in either Moncton, N.B., or Halifax gauges fan interest while helping to determine whether the region is ready for a CFL franchise and prepared to build a new stadium. But Wright said both cities would remain strong contenders for a potential franchise regardless of which one lands June's coveted exhibition match featuring the Grey Cup champion Toronto Argonauts.

London perfect fit for CFL, longtime league vet figures
JIM KERNAGHAN, Free Press Sports Columnist *
2004-12-08 02:45:50 *

One doesn't speak with Leo Cahill long before grand ideas begin percolating beneath his pate. Then monuments emerge from his mouth.

And before you can say Joe Theisman, suddenly you can see a Canadian Football League franchise in London.

Folks of a certain age will recall Cahill. He was the guy who kept the Toronto Argonauts on the front pages and at the top of newscasts over two regimes as head coach and one as general manager.

Leo the Lip is back with the Argos, now in community relations. And one community he likes is London.

Cahill has always thought this would be an ideal city for CFL expansion, and nothing has changed his mind now that the league is enjoying an upswing in popularity.

"London would be one helluva place for the league to expand," Cahill said yesterday from his Sarnia home.

"It would make a lot more sense than the Maritimes. Can you imagine home-and-home games with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and Argos? You'd jam the place."

He was referring to recent CFL talk of expanding to Halifax. While Cahill sees potential there as a sort of community-owned regional franchise like the Saskatchewan Roughriders, he likes the football culture of this region more.

"If a deal could be struck like the ones the Argos did with York University, one between Western and the CFL and government, a stadium of 20,000 to 25,000 would sell out for sure," he said.

Cahill has always felt a London franchise also targeting the nearby American market would produce immense dividends.

Unlike other sports, CFL teams only have nine regular season games to sell. The key, of course, is a stadium. Even with temporary bleachers, UWO's TD Waterhouse could accommodate only about 16,000, well short of what a CFL team would require to be viable.

There are other issues. The sort of government assistance the Argos get -- $27 million from the feds and $8 million from the province -- is one thing. A large stadium on the Western campus would require vast road-building and parking upgrades.

That said, football is a drive-to sport and there are plenty other sites in or around town.

Cahill, once an assistant coach at the Montreal Alouettes with Indian Jack Jacobs, who coached the old senior London Lords, recalled a time when they were boarding a plane with head coach Perry Moss and then-owner Ted Workman.

"Jack had his golf clubs with him and something was said about it," Cahill recalled. "Jack told them he'd do what he wanted and what they could do. He was one tough SOB."

Cahill's style was more creative. In the same position as Jacobs, he'd conjure up ways in which his presence on the golf course would be of immense value to the Alouettes and get hearty applause.

It was Cahill who managed to attract such blue-chippers as quarterback Joe Theisman into Argo double-blue and fill the 31,000 CNE Stadium regularly. In fact, if anyone ever gets behind a CFL franchise for London, Cahill ought to be the first signing.

For now, he is glad to be back in football, even though "I have to take a low profile, which is not exactly my modus operandi," and enjoying finally getting a Grey Cup ring after the Argo victory over the BC Lions.

"It's great, doing radio and television and after the Grey Cup, doing autograph sessions along with the players."

At 76, Cahill has received some added recognition. Siemens Canada sponsors the Leo Cahill Trophy, which goes to the Toronto-area high school football coach who does most to support the game.

He gets to award it next week. There's a story behind the award. The CEO of Siemens once interviewed Cahill for his student newspaper and never forgot the coach's kindness.

Lots of recent talk about CFL expansion out east recently!

Again, CFL looking east
Argos-Ticats game in Halifax renews Atlantic team talk Lack of venues in region a major stumbling block


RICK MATSUMOTO
SPORTS REPORTER

The Canadian Football League has once again blown the dust off its oft-shelved plan to give the league a true national identity.

Whether the CFL finally acts on those plans could be determined by the response from fans and the corporate sector to a pre-season game between the Grey Cup champion Argonauts and the Hamilton Tiger-Cats on June 11 in Halifax.

CFL commissioner Tom Wright first revealed the idea of an Atlantic Canada exhibition during last month's Grey Cup. The Argos became a natural choice when they won the Cup and the rival Ticats were selected this week as their opponents.

Wright has said he'd like to see a team established on the east coast by 2008. Halifax and Moncton were suggested as the likeliest candidates for the league's 10th team, although Quebec City has also been named. Saint John, N.B., played host to a pair of pre-season games in the 1980s.

The CFL wants a fifth Eastern Division team to balance the two divisions and eliminate the need for the playoff crossover rule, under which it's possible that two teams from the same division could end up in the Grey Cup game.

Wright described next year's Argo-Ticat game as "a stake in the ground."

"This issue (Atlantic expansion) has been around for 20 to 30 years. If we don't address it one way or another now it's going to be around for another 20 to 30 years."

In 1983, there was a fifth eastern team — at least on paper. That's when the league granted a franchise to a group headed by Mississauga trucking firm operator John Donoval and Halifax millionaire Robert Burns Cameron.

However, the Halifax-based Atlantic Schooners never set sail.

The 70-year-old Donoval, who returned to the trucking business in 2001 after a year as director of business development for the Argonauts under previous owner Sherwood Schwarz, remains convinced that the Schooners would have floated had it not been for a last-minute decision by the federal government to renege on a promised $5 million loan toward a $6.9 million stadium.

"Everything was set," said Donoval. "The seats were ordered. We would have had 30,000 seats between the goal lines."

The stadium was to be built in an industrial park in adjoining Dartmouth as part of a larger plan for an exhibition park similar to Toronto's CNE or Vancouver's PNE.

"We thought, `Why not an ANE?' and the stadium would have been its centrepiece," said Donoval.

A press conference was called in June 1983 to formally announce the franchise. But a few days after returning from Regina, Donoval got a call from Ottawa. The loan was off.

Donoval said he was never given a reason. Even after more than 20 years, "I can still feel it right now."

Despite that failure, Donoval believes a CFL team can succeed in Atlantic Canada.

"There's interest there. A lot of people are sick and tired of hearing that a CFL team is coming and then it doesn't happen. There will be a degree of reluctance. But I'm confident the support will be there. It just has to be rekindled."

Halifax has a metropolitan population of about 360,000, which would make it the second smallest fan base of any CFL city behind Regina, which has 192,800 people. The Roughriders rely on support from across the province and a Halifax team would have to do likewise, drawing fans not only from the rest of Nova Scotia, but from Moncton, Saint John and even P.E.I.

Steve Patterson, director of football development at St. Mary's University and a native Haligonian, also thought a team could work.

"There's no question it (the CFL) would draw. Football is just growing here. It's all about the venue. It's real simple. The day they construct a stadium, the next day we'll have a team."

The stadium is the main stumbling block to eastern expansion. Neither Halifax nor Moncton has a facility that can be adapted like Percival Molson Stadium on the McGill University campus in Montreal, which has become the cozy and successful home of the Alouettes.

Moncton doesn't have a stadium, while St. Mary's Huskies Stadium in Halifax currently seats just 3,500. Plans call for enlargement to 5,000 with room for temporary bleachers that would bring capacity to 10,000. But there is no room to expand to the 25,000-seat minimum needed for the CFL.

Also to be settled is who would pay for a stadium.

The Argos' new home at York University, which is slated to open for the 2006 season, is projected to cost $70 million, with the university providing the land and $15 million. The federal and provincial governments will provide $35 million, leaving the Argo owners to pay the remaining $20 million as well as any cost overruns.

Similar cost sharing would be needed to put up a stadium in the Maritimes.

"We're going to look at the model the Argos brought this year," said Wright. "It's a collection of partners — committed individuals, the Canadian Soccer Association, York University and three levels of government."

Wright stressed the stadium would have to be a multi-use facility. "It has to have 250 events a year, not just 10 CFL games."

While no potential owners of the CFL's 10th franchise have come forward, Wright said there should be a local interest involved.

But he added, "It could be structured in many ways," pointing to B.C. Lions owner David Braley, who lives and works out of Hamilton.

Wright said the next step is simple if next year's exhibition game and a search for owners and a stadium site show that a franchise in the Maritimes is not feasible.

"Then we won't do it."

CFL seeks to be truly Canadian
Halifax trip about `brand building'

Argos, Ticats to battle in exhibition


RICK MATSUMOTO
SPORTS REPORTER

Argonaut president Keith Pelley is confident that once Atlantic Canada gets a taste of live CFL action they will become addicted.

So even if the league fails to establish a long-sought franchise in the region, Pelley feels the June 11 — not the 12th — pre-season game in Halifax between the Grey Cup champion Argos and the Hamilton Tiger-Cats will be a valuable exercise.

"You're building your brand nationally," he said. "We bring down Hamilton and Toronto and we engage some young kids into our brand and all of a sudden they're following the Argos and the Ticats.

"That, in turn, drives your television ratings. Anything you can do to build your brand is crucial."

Pelley said the Argos would "probably" not have agreed to the game had it not been televised nationally.

"It's all about brand building," he said.

"The C in CFL stands for Canadian, and it's important that our fans from coast to coast to coast get to see the game."

The game will be an Argo "home" game and will be the second of two pre-season encounters between the two clubs. An earlier game will be played in Hamilton.

Pelley acknowledged that after winning this year's Grey Cup, the Argos could expect to get a crowd of at least 25,000 for their pre-season game at the SkyDome next June. Huskies Stadium on the St. Mary's University campus will be expanded to a minimum of 10,000 seats from the current 3,500 with the installation of portable stands, so there will be a loss in money from attendance.

However, not having to pay the significant rental fee at the SkyDome will help offset the loss in gate receipts and the CFL, which will pick up transportation, hotel and other travel costs, will also make up the difference.

The CFL has long sought to establish a franchise in the Atlantic region, which would not only give the league a truly national identity, but give the Eastern Division a fifth team, the same as the West. Halifax, along with Moncton and Quebec City, have been tabbed as possible sites for an expansion team.

A key factor for the awarding of a franchise would be the erection of a stadium with a minimum of 25,000 seats.

CFL commissioner Tom Wright has set 2008 as the date by which he'd like to add the10th team.

Tiger-Cats president David Sauve joked that an Atlantic setting just might help them beat the Argos and break the stranglehold that their bitter rivals have held on them for more than two seasons.

"We can't beat them in Ontario, so maybe we can do it elsewhere," he said.

The Argos have beaten the Ticats in 12 of their last 13 meetings, including pre-season and playoff games. The only blip on the Argos' screen was a 30-30 tie last season. The Ticats last beat the Boatmen on Labour Day, 2002.

Will Schooners finally set sail in CFL?


An Atlantic-region Canadian Football League franchise has been a long-time dream of football aficionados in this part of Canada. Periodically, it inches tantalizingly close to reality, only to vanish when the time comes to put cold, hard cash on the playing field. That's when the whistle blows the play dead, and the dream trudges back to the locker room.

The dream will beckon again June 11, at Huskies Stadium in Halifax, when the Grey Cup-champion Toronto Argonauts play an exhibition game against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats. CFL commissioner Tom Wright has hinted that this game will be something of a test of Halifax's suitability for an expansion team in the east. The western division has five teams; the league would like to see a fifth team in the east to balance the divisions.

Other cities are in the running, including Moncton, which lost out to Halifax for the exhibition game; London, Ont.; and Quebec city. The league sounds serious about adding a 10th team, so the competition isn't a sham.

This is not the first time the CFL has tested Atlantic waters. Twenty years ago, a team called the Atlantic Schooners seemed ready to set sail in Halifax. But the launch never occurred, because the city lacked a CFL-size stadium, and no agreement could be reached to build one.

We still don't have a 25,000-seat stadium, which is the CFL's minimum capacity. There are no plans to build one in the near future, and the near future is when the CFL wants its 10th team in place — 2008.

So, even if a temporarily expanded 10,000-seat Huskies Stadium is packed for the June 11 exhibition game, Halifax's chances to land that team will be nil unless a stadium can be funded and built within the next three years. And even that is not a guarantee, as the other cities will still be seeking the franchise.

It would be an expensive gamble. The estimated cost to construct a CFL-size stadium is somewhere between $60 million and $70 million. That is not a small sum for a city and province struggling to keep their books balanced.

As well, the city is embarking on an ambitious development plan that includes the Halifax Harbour cleanup, a revamping of the transportation infrastructure and a spate of new construction in downtown Halifax. That's a full plate for the municipality, with precious little room on it for a new stadium.

Even though a CFL franchise would vault Halifax into big-league status, the task of building the necessary stadium is too large for the city to accomplish on its own. A regional, public-private partnership is a more viable alternative. Putting such a partnership together may be more difficult than actually building the stadium, but it's the only practical way to go.

It will take a team to get a team — if we want it.

I think everyone who has posted in this forum will find this website interesting.

http://www.halifaxcfl.com/

OTTAWA IN TROUBLE !!!
Globeandmail.com

CFL maintains Ottawa franchise a going concern
Owners trying to sort out differences

By DAVID NAYLOR

UPDATED AT 11:49 AM EST Friday, Jan 7, 2005

Advertisement

OTTAWA -- Tom Wright, commissioner of the Canadian Football League, is confident that delays in restructuring the ownership of the Ottawa Renegades will not interfere with the team's preparation for the 2005 season.

The Renegades, who were among the CFL teams that lost money last season, have been trying to sort out their complicated, five-person ownership group, whose members have often been at odds over losses. The team had hoped to have the problems cleared up shortly after the season ended in November, but they remain unresolved.

"I've been in close contact with the Renegades and spent a lot of time before, during and after the Grey Cup," Wright said. "And I've had assurances that any internal issues will be resolved as responsibly and quickly as possible and I believe they will.

"I've also communicated to them that they have to get on with running their business and I believe they're doing that. Season tickets are going on sale, sponsorships are moving forward. Would we have preferred these things be resolved earlier? Sure. But sometimes these things take time and I'm confident they'll be resolved quickly."

The Renegades have no coach or general manager under contract, although it's expected that last season's head coach, Joe Paopao, will be hired next week to fill both jobs.

Worries about the state of the Renegades hit the CFL radar screen last season when the team underwent significant cost-cutting measures to balance the books after two years of financial losses.

After the 2004 season, team president Brad Watters said he didn't know how his club would be able to compete in a league in which few teams paid attention to the salary cap of $2.55-million. Watters has been openly critical of the league's refusal to address overspending by its teams, going so far as to cite his group's expansion agreement, which includes a salary cap.

Reports that the owners were discussing an investment by Bernie and Lonie Glieberman, former owners of the defunct Ottawa Rough Riders, fuelled more worries that the team's finances were at issue.

A report this week in Ottawa said the Renegades suffered a $2-million loss last season despite a rollback in expenses.

That figure apparently surprised many of the Renegades' owners, who were expecting a break-even year.

The Renegades were sold as an expansion franchise to a group of five investors in the fall of 2001 for $4-million (including a $500,000 marketing fund).

The league also received 25 per cent of net proceeds from the 2004 Grey Cup. The owners were promised an enforceable salary cap, and received a list of typical expenses, some of which appear to be conservative. For example, numbers provided by the league's management council list coaching salaries at $350,000 while player injury contingency was listed at just $100,000.

Though the team was respectable on the field for much of its first three seasons, it has yet to reach the playoffs and finished last season with a record of 5-13.

Late in the season, one investor, Kevin Kimsa, let it be known he wanted to sell his 15-per-cent share in the club.

It was assumed that either Randy Gillies or Bill Smith, who each own 30 per cent of the team, would buy Kimsa out and move into a majority position.

However, the new year has arrived without resolution on the ownership front and it's unclear whether any of the partners is willing to commit to further losses.

The Gliebermans continue to wait on the sidelines, apparently eager to become involved. As for the possibility of buying the team outright, Lonie Glieberman said yesterday, "That would depend on the price."

Watters said his ownership group remains committed.

"There's no issue in terms of us playing," Watters said.

"We're going forward, building our fan base, and over the long term we have to find a model that works. We need our fan base and we'll do everything we can to put a winning team on the field."

Ottawa is not alone when it comes to financial losses. Despite an upswing in league popularity, Wright said during Grey Cup week that most teams were still losing money.

Bell Globemedia
© 2005 Bell Globemedia Publishing Inc. All Rights Reserved.

I think everyone who has posted in this forum will find this website interesting.

http://www.halifaxcfl.com/

they want to call it the Halifax Explosion? That's rather bad taste!

Besides, why would you want to relate your football team to a disaster? Not exactly a good connotation for a sports franchise lol

the new Halifax Memorial Stadium with 27,846 seats at a cost of $77 million.
http://216.234.171.134/images/stadium_artist_net.gifhttp://216.234.171.134/images/stadium_close_net.gif

Yea I agree the Explosions isn't the greatest name. I do like the Hurricanes, even though that is related to disasers as well. Just pleasseeee make it anything that doesn't have to do with Nova Scotia's Celtic history. It seems we can't get away from that image here :bash:

How about Halifax Privateers? In any case I'm sure that anything would be better than the Halifax Icebreakers (*Halifax Harbour is famous for being ice-free). I just hope they won't bring back the "Atlantic" Schooners idea. As much as the other NB/NFLD/PEI deserve teams, I'm tired of the rest of the country grouping the entire Atlantic area together as a single province. On a lot of tv networks etc. (see www.ctv.ca and www.canada.com) there's seperate sections for Victoria, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Sask, about 10 different cities in Ontario and Quebec, and then..."Atlantic."

Victoria needs a CFL team. We don't even have a university team.

a few thoughts.


- Although the BC lions are called the BC lions, they don't really have a following outside of Vancouver. So it's nto the same as with Saskatchewan. So it would be no problem adding new teams. I would recommend against renaming them to the vancouver lions tho because of tradition. It's okay though - the NHL has the Florida Panthers and the Tampa Bay Lightning.

- Kelowna is too small and too much of a hockey town, I don't know if they can support a team.

- Victoria however can and should get one.


- Right now though the obvious frontrunners are Halifax and Moncton. So guess what - GIVE THEM BOTH TEAMS. And give another one to victoria and EVERYBODY is happy! We can discuss Quebec City and Kelowna and London in the future but RIGHT NOW (ie within the next 4 years) the plan should be to add halifax, moncton, and victoria.

Then it's:

West:
BC
Victoria
Winnipeg
Calgary
Edmonton
Sakatchewan

East:
Toronto
Hamilton
Ottawa
Montreal
Moncton
Halifax



I think it's PERFECT. In each conference, 3 teams make the playoffs (1 with a first-round-bye), 3 miss out. It's awesome.

You've got to be kidding, right? Vicotria over Q.C? Moncton? What the hell are you talking about?

Q.C. is twice the size of any of those teams, and its Rouge et Or university team has been selling out for the past few years!

Out west i'd give a second team to saskatchewan before a second team to B.C.

I think Quebec city would make more sense than Moncton (for the same reasons that Halifax does), and I think Victoria would make more sense than Saskatoon (I'm assuming that's what ^ meant). Vancouver and Vancouver Island each have a strong enough population base that they could probably support two teams, but the Saskatchewan Roughnecks rely on spectators from both Regina and Saskatoon (among other cities) and adding another team would dilute the fan base too much.

You've got to be kidding, right? Vicotria over Q.C? Moncton? What the hell are you talking about?

Q.C. is twice the size of any of those teams, and its Rouge et Or university team has been selling out for the past few years!

Out west i'd give a second team to saskatchewan before a second team to B.C.


well a couple of thoughts. #1 - yes, size-wise, i'd give QC a team before anybody else. But are they petitioning for a CFL team? I know moncton and halifax are.


Saskatchewan has a bigger football base than BC, however it is truly a province-wide fanbase, and they want to support the green and gold. People wouldn't want a 2nd team. It'd be like a Civil war.

BC is different in the sense that the BC lions are essentially vancouver's team. People from the island don't go out to the games much. You add a team in victoria, and it's a whole new set of fans.

Saskatchewan has a bigger football base than BC, however it is truly a province-wide fanbase, and they want to support the green and gold. People wouldn't want a 2nd team. It'd be like a Civil war.



True enough, but there is also a natural Saskatoon/ Regina rivalry that could trump "Rider Pride". I know I'd dump the Green and White in a flash if Saskatoon got a team (of course, I'm not from here). In 20 or 30 years time, assuming Saskatoon contuinues to grow, a team there might be possible. As it stands even if the support existed for a team in Saskatoon there's no money to build a stadium.

Québec being the largest city without a team is definitely a factor. Plus it has a football history. Halifax is the next largest city outside of Southern Ontario (London, K/W) without a team. These numbers are important.

Hey, another city to put in the fight would be Windsor!

I was watching Sportsnet this morning and apparently the University of Windsor has proposed to build a 20,000 seat stadium for the University Football Team. Not only that, but in consideration would be drawing from Detroit and area across the border/river. Also in consideration is if this stadium proposal doesn't work, then maybe play out of the Pontiac Silverdome and have a Detroit/Windsor joined team or something.

Then a poll question came up on which city should get a CFL team, and the choices were Quebec City, Halifax, Moncton, Windsor, and Victoria. Why the hell wasn't London on that list? London was a considered city for the CFL as well, maybe they only had room for five options or something, I don't understand that. As I know, TD Waterhouse Stadium can easily be expanded to accomodate more than 20,000. Although they would probably have to be PERMANENT seating, as it seats 8,000 permanently.

I think London would be before Windsor only because it can draw from all across Southwestern Ontario, and wouldn't be in direct competition from Detroit.

^ I agree with that for more reasons than that. Also, London is certainly larger in the city and metro and because of the success of the Ti-Cats/Argos game 3 years ago, London is considered a suitable market, but there are other cities before it as well that should be considered, like Halifax and Quebec City. So, IMO, if the CFL were to settle in SW Ontario, it would make sense it would be in London, being the HUB of that area.

Halifax/Moncton or Quebec are the only choices. Either Halifax or Moncton are going to get the team not both. Quebec should just get one plain and simple. After that London or Kitchener/Waterloo should get the team.

^I agree. At first there can only be one Atlantic team, but maybe over time, there can be two. It doesn't matter the size of the market, only the loyalty of the fans. I think the Roughriders and Argos are good examples of that. Quebec should instantly get one. Then, the CFL will be imbalanced, with BC, Calgary,Edmonton, Saskatchewan, and Winnipeg in one division, and Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Québec and Halifax/Moncton in another. I think it's best when the divisions are evened out. Maybe a team in Victoria sounds the best, or just delaying the team in the Atlantic until the West can support another team. Or relocation...?

Rough Riders revival?
New ownership may put old brand on CFL franchise

Matthew Sekeres
The Ottawa Citizen

Tuesday, May 10, 2005

More Columns By This Writer
:: Renegades' plight may prove commissioner's Waterloo
It's not a resurrection -- not yet, anyway -- but it seems the name "Rough Riders" isn't quite resting in peace, either.

Lonie Glieberman, the former Rough Riders team president who is fronting a bid to purchase the Canadian Football League's Ottawa Renegades, told the Citizen he would explore bringing back the 107-year-old name for the three-year-old franchise under certain conditions.

"If the ownership group and the fans were interested in that, and the league is supportive of that, then we would work with all parties," Glieberman said late Sunday night.

"If they think it would make the operation stronger, we would definitely be willing to look at that."

Already, there are critics.

Brad Watters, the former Renegades president and the man who returned professional football to Ottawa in 2002, is decidedly against the change.

The name "Renegades" was Watters' baby, selected after a fan vote in which "Rough Riders" was not an option. Watters has previously admitted that he and his investing partners were only willing to consider certain choices, and were partial to Renegades.

"I would think it's short-sighted, at best," Watters said yesterday about the concept. "I was obviously one of the ones who wanted change."

Watters stands as a minority partner, along with his father, Bill, should the Gliebermans complete a deal for majority control of the Renegades, as expected. Bill Smith, originally a 30-per-cent investor, would also remain.

But even dating back to the pre-expansion days, it seems the CFL supported the concept, or was at least willing to let club owners decide.

The memorandum distributed to would-be expansion franchise buyers in 2001 states that the name Rough Riders "is currently owned by Mr. Horn Chen and may be available for purchase."

Later that year, the CFL applied to the Canadian Intellectual Property Office in an attempt to regain the logos and name.

With control over both, the team and league could use them for marketing purposes, namely the "retro" themes that have pervaded game-day promotions in many leagues of late.

Chen, the final owner before the Rough Riders were folded by the league following the 1996 season, has had the name "warehoused," according to his Ottawa-based lawyer, but wouldn't drive a hard bargain should someone want it back.

"Not at all. The valuations were reached beforehand," said Philip Rimer, Chen's lawyer, who refused to provide figures. "We've always viewed that this would be the most likely scenario."

It is believed Chen was once asking "several hundred thousand dollars" for the name and logo, according to Grant White, who pursued an Ottawa expansion franchise a full year before the Watters group.

Rimer said two matters would have to be cleared up before Chen is willing to part with the name.

First, the Chicago businessman needs to determine how much money he has spent defending his ownership of the club's intellectual property.

Second, Rimer said, his client would license the name to a buyer for a "trial period" and give the party an option to buy it once the period has elapsed.

He added that the royalty payments for licensing would have to be determined, but that they would be applied to the eventual purchase price.

"The only reason we're looking for upside ... is to reflect the costs incurred from the action launched by the CFL," Rimer said.

In 2001, the ownership consortium that purchased a CFL expansion franchise for Ottawa decided to break ties with the tradition of the name, mainly because it felt there were too many bad memories surrounding the final, failing days of the franchise.

"Don't compare us to the Rough Riders," became the cry, as a way of separating the new owners from the inadequate ownership to which the dwindling fan base that attended games at Frank Clair Stadium had become accustomed.

Watters wasn't convinced by a team telephone survey of fans in 2002 that turned up just 51-per-cent support for retaining the name.

Watters said a number of 70 to 80 per cent would have been needed to prompt discussions with Chen.

The Saskatchewan Roughriders, who always chafed at the mockery of a nine-team league with two near-identical team names, also supported the decision.

"One of the things we were known for was the stupidity of having two teams with the same name," former team president Bob Ellard told the Citizen in October 2001. "I'm happy Ottawa will have a fresh name. This group is starting off fresh. Had they chose to go to Rough Riders, it could have hurt us."

The name "Rough Riders" was associated with Ottawa's football team in an official capacity since 1898, and informally since 1867, the same year as Confederation.

There is no way in hell KW would ever get a CFL team. Hell, a lot of people in Ontario have never heard of the "village" of Kitchener :mad2:

If anyone in SW Ontario's getting, one it'd be London. It's closer to Windsor, and further away from Hamilton and Toronto... But Québec city and Halifax first. Maybe even Victoria first.

Halifax should already have a team....they have the population....london will make sense also...how about kitchener/waterloo?...what about mississauga?????....who cares if it's so close to toronto....it would create rivalries and would most definitely liven up the CFL

There is no way in hell KW would ever get a CFL team. Hell, a lot of people in Ontario have never heard of the "village" of Kitchener :mad2:

I've been to kitchener many time and know it can host a CFL franchise

Halifax should already have a team....they have the population....london will make sense also...how about kitchener/waterloo?...what about mississauga?????....who cares if it's so close to toronto....it would create rivalries and would most definitely liven up the CFL

I don't know. Hamilton and Toronto being close enough doesn't help either team. And they're the two biggest city in the region by far too!

Without a doubt Halifax first. I don't think Quebec could make a go of it. Football does not have a strong support base in Quebec.
Victoria maybe. I live in greater Victoria lots of seniors that wouldn't go and again I don't think much of a fan base.
I don't think spliting up the SK. team between Sask/Reg is a bad idea.
After Halifax thou I would say it would have to be London.
There is well over a million people in S/W Ont and that doesn't even include K/W and London is the undisputed capitol of S/W Ontario.
London is not only a large city but also right smack in the middle of S/W Ont and all transportation has to go thru London.
There is however more than just that that London has going for it. London is a wealthy white-collar city with lots of disposable income. It is a major financial and head office city which means corporate donors.......ie LondonLife, TDCanadaTrust, and construction giant ElisDon to name a few. It is far enough away from Toronto to have its own fan base and is also home to one of Canada's largest universities....UWO which is the size of UBC.
QuebecCity is larger but as we have seen in the NHL in the US market just because a city has a large population base doesn't mean it has a large fan base.
Victoria and Quebec are tourist and civil service cities...no corporate donations.
Halifax certainly first as it not only could make a go of it but it would make the CFL a truly national league but after that, no question, London.
I wish you had put London in the poll, o well.

BTW, Kelowna????.......are you kidding.
Only 150k and half are seniors, no head office corporate donations, and is one of the lowest percapita metro areas in Canada and no university for the student fans.
Ridiculous idea..brankrupt within a year.
No fan base, no population, no support, no money.................thats Kelowna.

YellowKnife all the way!!! :jk:
I'd love to see Halifax get it. The maritimes have absolutely no pro sports teams. And while they may not be able to support some of the other leagues, they definanatly should be able to support CFL.
London is a good pick too, but too close to Toronto & Hamilton

Can someone from Québec confirm the sweep across the province of football? Universities in Québec have football fever, along with the whole province. Damn right Québec city can support a team. More so than any city I would reckon. Don't forget Halifax and the Maritimes love the game of basketball, and have more history with basketball too. Kelowna would be a long way off, Victoria, with its university population is IMO closer, and it might be needed to balance the league, unless we return to the horrible three-division structure years ago.
_______________
From the Canadian Interuniversity Sport (CIS) website:

September 20, 2003
Quebec catches football fever

'Come for the ambience': University games are drawing bigger crowds than Expos
By Graeme Hamilton, National Post

MONTREAL - They have lost their first two games 46-0 and 71-0, and tonight they face some really stiff competition. But the Université de Sherbrooke football team's on-field woes cannot dampen the enthusiasm of the thousands expected to fill the stadium after an afternoon at Quebec's newest party tradition, le tailgate.

The Sherbrooke Vert et Or, playing its first season after a 30-year hiatus, is evidence of a football craze sweeping Quebec's francophone campuses. Once dismissed as an elitist sport best left to the anglophones, football has captured the hearts of Quebecers.

Université de Montreal brought back its team last year, and since taking the field in 1996, the Rouge et Or of Université Laval in Quebec City has become one of the province's most popular sports teams, trailing only the NHL's Canadiens and CFL's Alouettes in average attendance. Last year, it averaged 13,800 fans per game, more than Major League Baseball's Montreal Expos, who averaged just 10,025. The football bug has spread to high schools and colleges, even in outlying regions.

"Now there is football in Chibougamau, football in La Tuque. Every week we hear about a new team," Alain Lapointe, head coach of the Vert et Or (Green and Gold), said in an interview. "It used to be that football was associated with the anglophone schools. In the last 10 years, francophones have really taken it over."

Observers point to two key events in 1996 to explain the surge of interest in le football. One was the return of the Montreal Alouettes to the CFL, ending nine years without a pro team in the city. And Laval became the only French university competing in Canada's inter-university football league that year.

The return of the Alouettes, and in particular the team's move to Molson Stadium downtown two seasons later, created such a buzz around the sport that tickets became scarce. And in Quebec City, starved for big-time sports after the departure of the NHL Nordiques to Colorado, Laval teamed with a group of local businessmen to shrewdly market the Rouge et Or (Red and Gold).

They offered clinics to initiate fans to the basics of the game and introduced a new word into the Quebec lexicon: le tailgate. Fans, inspired by the legendary tailgate parties held in stadium parking lots before U.S. college football games, were encouraged to show up hours before game time with barbecues and coolers. For many, the action on the field is secondary to the festivities.

Now when the Rouge et Or has a 1:30 p.m. start, fans being arriving at the stadium at 7:30 in the morning. Before the gates open, the parking lot is packed with up to 6,000 people. The crowds for Laval's home games are the largest of any university in the country. Last Sunday, the team drew 16,843 people to its home opener. The next largest crowd for a Canadian university game this year was 10,036 at Queen's on Sept. 1. The third largest was the 7,487 people who saw Sherbrooke's opening game.

Jean-Charles Meffe, technical director of Football-Quebec, the organization that oversees amateur football in the province, said the enthusiasm for football extends well beyond the jock set. Even high school and CEGEP teams are drawing crowds in the thousands.

Just like in the United States, Quebec football teams have become rallying points for entire communities. The number of players has more than doubled in the last 10 years, reaching 20,000 this year.

"It's not just the final score that's important. It's a demonstration of belonging. It's your team, your colours," Mr. Meffe said. "Before, we went to Mass. Now people go to the football game.... It's a rendez-vous for the community."

Sitting high in the stands last Saturday as the Université de Montreal Carabins battled the McGill Redmen, Richard Tremblay said he was ecstatic that his alma mater decided to reinstate its football program last year. Mr. Tremblay played on the last Carabins team before it was disbanded in 1972. At the time, the university administration decided against funding so-called elite sports in favour of sports that could be played by all.

But after witnessing the phenomenal success of the Rouge et Or, who won the national championship in 1999, the university realized it was missing out on the exposure a football team can bring. "The Université de Montreal was unknown in terms of sports," Mr. Tremblay said. Now after going winless last year, the Carabins have won their first two games of the season, including a 12-11 victory over McGill before 4,135 fans.

At Sherbrooke, the university copied the model of Laval, recruiting local businessmen and alumni to sponsor the team and even staging tailgate parties before home games.

Paul Delage Roberge, a Sherbrooke alumnus and founder of the fashion retail company, Les Boutiques San Francisco Inc., was enlisted to head the non-profit corporation that runs the Vert et Or. The corporation raised $1.6-million to fund the team over the next five years, and it sold more than 5,000 season tickets for this year's four home games.

"It's very good for the university. It creates rivalries with other universities and a sense of belonging to the university among students," Mr. Roberge said. No one is expecting miracles from a team made up of rookies. Tonight, another capacity crowd is expected when Laval, ranked fifth in the country, visits. Mr. Lapointe, the coach, called it a "David and Goliath" confrontation, which might be accurate if David had not had that slingshot.

"It's going to be 80-0," Mr. Roberge predicted, "or maybe we'll get lucky and score a touchdown or two." While he did not even try to sound optimistic about the team's chances -- "we don't expect to win a single match this year" -- he was upbeat about its sharp uniforms and the quality of the cheerleaders. And in truth, the Quebec football phenomenon is about much more than two teams squaring off on the gridiron.

"People don't come for the performance of the team," Mr. Lemieux said. "People realize football is a happening. They come for the ambience."
_______________________
From College Colours, the Journal of Canadian Varsity Sports:

It's All in the Perspective


The numbers are undeniable. All it takes is a quick look at the CIS attendance figures for football to confirm that the sport enjoys its greatest popularity in the province of Quebec and at the French speaking schools in particular.

The rapid growth of football in Quebec is one of the biggest success stories in the history Canadian sport. After all, there was a time not so long ago when the imminent death of Canadian football was almost a daily story in the nation's sports pages.

Then, suddenly, people started to notice that there was a bunch of crazy French guys showing up to watch football in huge numbers. And they weren't just showing up at the pro level either. The new program at Laval was drawing over 10,000 people per game, big crowds were turning up to watch CEGEP games, minor football registration numbers were growing astronomically.

Somehow, without even the benefit of some slick marketing campaign, the people of Quebec saved Canadian football.

Ironic, eh?

It's impossible to pinpoint a single reason why the sport took off so dramatically in Quebec. However, I do have a theory. At the risk of being too political, modern Quebec has often differed from the rest of the country in its willingness to accept and celebrate its own success stories. Whereas English Canada often views success with suspicion (at least until someone in the United States tells us its worthwhile) French Canada embraces it.

Celine Dion is an icon in her native province and has been since she was a young girl; Alanis Morissette sells fewer records per capita in Canada than anywhere else in the western world.

It's almost like English Canadians are unwilling to believe that we do anything worthwhile. The French, unburdened by such hang-ups, are free to simply like what they like. In that light it is easy to understand why Quebec has taken to Canadian football; it's a great product. And it doesn't matter to them that it isn't played in Alabama, or reported on in Sports Illustrated.

The bottom line is that football fans in the rest of the country owe our francophone counterparts a great deal of gratitude.

All of this is meant as an introduction to College Colours' newest columnist Xavier Désilets. Xavier will cover Quebec for the site and he will do so in French. My statistics tell me that over one-third of College Colours' readers come from Quebec, so it seems only fair that we provide something for those readers in their native language.

Consider it my small, but heartfelt, merci.

oBVIOUSLY SSIGUY2 HASN'T BEN IN qUÉBEC FOR A VERY LONG TIME!(sorry about the caps)

Anyways, to answer your question, yes, Québec(all the province) has been bonkers for Football for the past 5 years.

Just to give you an Idea, Université Laval(in Q.C.) started up its football program 9 years ago, and most of us know the kind of success they've had since then!

in 2002 Université de montréal started their Football program, and last year they went 8-0(I think?) anyways, they are doing very well.

in 2003 Université de Sherbrooke brought back their football team and are averaging over 5,000 fans per game(in 2004)

And this year Université du Québec à Montréal(UQAM) will start up its Football program. That's four new football teams in 9 years.

I think its safe to say that Football is doing very well in this province...not to mention that its actually harder to get football tickets in Montreal(FOr the Als) than it is to get Hockey tickets!!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
agreed!:okay:

More news about Touchdown Atlantic in Halifax, and what it could mean for CFL expansion in the Maritimes.
________________________________
Walling: A touchdown for the Atlantic
TSN.ca Staff

6/10/2005 11:24:09 AM
After years, decades, even a past millennium, the CFL is finally coming to Halifax and it will be well received when they hold a pre-season game this weekend. The Toronto Argonauts play the Hamilton Tiger-Cats at the newly renovated Saint Mary's Huskies stadium in what is billed as "Touchdown Atlantic."
With tickets going for $40 and $62.50, the place is sold out.
The reason for the high ticket prices, according to event chairman Tony Martin, is because nearly 8,000 seats were brought in from outside the Maritimes. Each seat - when you include labour, transportation, installation and the other aspects - amounts to $27 per seat before any one even sits down.
By comparison, a fan can watch a CFL game in some cities for as low as $15. Then again, they have anywhere from 20,000 to 60,000 seats to offer.
There will be nearly 11,000 fans in the stands when TSN kicks off its football season Saturday night.


Now I've seen tons of 'Atlantic Bowl' games and none has ever seen attendance over 10,000. Not even in the Chris Flynn heydays from 1987 to 1990. In the past few years, 6,000 to 8,000 has been the norm for the Bowl game. It simply looks like more than that when you get the overview or wide angle shot on television.
The Saint Mary's stadium barely holds 2,500 as far as bleacher seating is concerned. Now they get good crowds (4,000 to 5,000) on Friday nights when the Huskies play their home games, but that's with standing room and temporary seating for a college game. But this is the big time and they've done a great job is making this college campus hub look like a pro stadium.
The CFL coming to Halifax has been a rumour for years. I came to this city in the summer of 1972, and within months I heard that 'the CFL is coming to town.'
They nearly did in the early 1980's when the Atlantic Schooners actually made an application to the league. They paid the $25,000 down payment but when it came down to hand over the 'first installment,' they folded.
It also appeared they had a deal for a new stadium from the federal government, but the deal was killed and so was the dream of a pro football in the Maritimes.
One of the other rumours still kicking around is that the scoreboard for the Schooners - which was the old one taken from the New England Patriots - is somewhere in a warehouse in the area.
Twenty-five years after those rumours, Halifax is a much different place.
Back in the 1970's, the population was barely above 100,000. Today, we are nearing the 400,000 mark - and that's just in the Metro area. That's a lot of bodies that could help fill seats. The surrounding area has also grown. Cities like Moncton, Fredericton, Saint John and even Charlottetown are considered potential drawing areas.
This will be the first time a CFL game has been played in this province but not the first in the Maritimes. In the mid 1980's, the city of Saint John, NB had two exhibition games. The first one in 1986 featured the Montreal Alouettes and the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and drew 11,000 fans.
The second game, a year later, saw 5,000 fans show up. That second contest had the Bombers playing the Hamilton Tiger Cats. What is remarkable about the second game was that is was played in a torrential downpour.
"To get that kind of crowd for an exhibition game in the pouring rain was amazing," says Randy Charles who works in sports at New Song-FM a Saint John radio station. Charles took in the downpour game as a 14-year old.
In the Saturday 'Touchdown Atlantic" tilt, both teams have given their word that the 'well known names' will dress and play.
This is a far cry from some 15 years ago when an NHL exhibition game billed as Boston vs. Quebec turned out to be an AHL game with most players belonging to the Halifax Citadels and Maine Mariners. Big stars like Ray Bourque and Cam Neely didn't even dress. This will not be the case on Saturday night as both coaches have given indications that the top personnel will be used.
"Unlike other sports such as baseball and hockey we have only two games to make some very serious decisions and take these games very seriously," Tiger-Cats head coach Greg Marshall told me. "We've been training now for two weeks and the coaches are anxious to see what the veterans and rookies can do."
This could also be the first major step in the procurement of a CFL team for this area. CFL Commissioner Tom Wright has been to this city often in the past year and there is no doubt that he would like to see the CFL in Halifax.
"A franchise here would make it a truly coast-to-coast league," he told me.
However, there are other areas in Eastern Canada that have been mentioned in regards to CFL expansion. They include Quebec City, London and Windsor. And let's not forget Moncton. While it seems the New Brunswick city doesn't have the population, Wright has been talking to officials in that city and says he is taking these talks 'very seriously.'
Adding more intrigue to Moncton is the fact that the Rolling Stones will be there for a concert on Sept. 3. Maybe the CFL isn't too far behind.
Now all of the mentioned eastern Canadian cities have the same problem as Halifax in the sense that there is no stadium in any of these areas to hold a CFL crowd in the 20,000 to 25,000 range.
Some, including Commissioner Wright say this is a 'test.' Sorry, I don't buy it. Halifax has been tested for the past 15 years and has passed every 'so called test' that one can run out of space in mentioning them.
Whether it's the World Figuring Skating Championships in 1990, the Memorial Cup in 1999, The Brier, or the World Junior Hockey Championship and World Women's Hockey Championship, this city has come through.
If this is a test, then I guess Commissioner Wright will be pleased. Even with the high-priced tickets, the game sold out within days. Imagine what a normal ticket would do.
The organizers are hoping that people - especially the politicians - will notice the sell out, the crowd, the atmosphere and start the ball rolling for a stadium.
Most other centres in Canada have received help for 'infrastructure' from the federal government - GM Place, Commonwealth Stadium, Pengrowth Saddledome, the Corel Centre, Rogers Centre, and the Olympic Stadium in Montreal to name a few.
The last time Halifax received any kind of major sports infrastructure was for the first Canada Summer Games back in 1969. They got money for tennis courts, a softball diamond, and some repairs to a baseball facility used at those games. That's it.
Some of those who are championing the cause for a CFL team are stating that Halifax is not only owed, but that this infrastructure is long overdue.
"Perhaps when the country and politicians see the enthusiasm for the CFL they can be moved to our cause," says Fred MacGillivray, president/CEO of the Atlantic Canada World Trade Centre Limited, the government body that runs the Halifax Metro Centre.
"It starts with the government. They have to get the ball rolling and hopefully the other levels (provincial and municipal) have to join in."
Regardless, this game is already a success off the field. The tickets sold out within a week and the enthusiasm is here.
But the other problems such as the stadium, ownership, salary cap, and how to attract people from outside of Metro Halifax are some of the many questions that must be answered before Halifax gets into the CFL.
But for now, the CFL is finally coming to town.
________________________________________
June 11, 2005
Wright still not certain
By PERRY LEFKO
HALIFAX -- The State of the Canadian Football League never has been better according to commissioner Tom Wright, but his own situation continues to be as confusing as ever.

As he addressed the media yesterday to provide an update of the league in advance of the pre-season game at Huskies Stadium tonight between the Argos and Hamilton Tiger-Cats -- a game which could be a harbinger of future expansion -- the third-year commissioner painted a positive picture of the empire he oversees, but dodged his status.

He talked about about how the nine clubs are "well managed, well financed and well positioned" and that, overall, the league is "extraordinarily healthy."

He revealed how corporate Canada has embraced the CFL with sponsorship support 50% higher than last year, significant television data, both in terms of the demographics and the reach, and greater licensing.

And, of course, he pointed to the game tonight, which could be the first step toward expansion by the end of the decade.

"We are ready for expansion, that's why this game is so important," Wright said. "Do we have challenges (as a league)? Absolutely. The salary system remains a core issue. I am committed to finding a solution before the 2006 season."

But will Tom Wright still be the commissioner in 2006? Inevitably, that had to be asked -- and he knew it -- though clearly he's not comfortable talking about the subject.

The CFL board of governors has reportedly offered him a one-year contract extension on his current three-year deal, which expires after this season, with no significant salary hike. It's hardly an endorsement.

There remains the possibility Wright may pass on the offer presented and inform the league of his notice to leave. If that happens, the league will go on without him, for better or worse. This is all hypothetical, of course, but in the absence of certainty, one can only speculate, and clearly his future is more concrete than talk of expansion.

"Between myself and the board of governors, we'll do what's right for the league and what's right for the game," he said. "I want to get it done as quickly as possible."

Who knows if Wright will be around if the league expands into a 10th market? He is trying to do all the things necessary to put a framework in place for the possibility of expansion, while also being practical and realistic. His predecessor, Mike Lysko, who lasted for only 11/2 years of a scheduled three-year term because the board didn't fancy his concept of what a commissioner should do, resurrected the Ottawa market during his tenure, which became as much a part of his legacy as his unceremonious end.

If there is ever a 10th franchise and Wright is around for it, that will be legacy. But his task is much more difficult. Ottawa had a lengthy history in the CFL and a suitable stadium. Halifax, or Atlantic Canada for that matter, has neither.

No one can definitively predict the future of either CFL expansion or Wright as commissioner, though clearly he has greater insight into his own future.

"I step back and I take a look at it objectively and where the league is, what has been accomplished, where the growth has happened and the support we're getting not only from our fans but from television ... and I say to myself, 'Have I played a role in that growth?' Absolutely, I believe I have," Wright said. "Am I enjoying what I'm doing? Most of the time I do. Am I challenged and feel good about the prospects? Absolutely. So if I had a disappointment it's that some of these things are handled in public and they shouldn't be. They belong in private with the private issues, so that's the disappointment I would have. Other than that, it's going to be a great game."
________________________________
Sat, June 11, 2005

Cap key to any CFL expansion
Commish calls for enforcement by '06
By JIM BENDER, STAFF REPORTER
EDMONTON -- Something just did not seem quite right as our line cut in and out yesterday morning.

There was Tom Wright, who is still negotiating a contract extension to remain CFL commissioner, on a teleconference call from Halifax trumpeting tonight's pre-season game between the Toronto Argonauts and the Hamilton Tiger-Cats as a litmus test for possible expansion into that Nova Scotia harbour city.

In the same breath, Wright -- who has reportedly been asked to take a pay cut -- said there will be no expansion anywhere until the CFL introduces an enforceable salary cap.

FUNDAMENTAL

"It is fundamental to our business model," Wright said. "Not all of our clubs make money now but hopefully, by the end of the decade, or by the time of expansion, that will not be the case."

Although there is a cap now, it has never been enforced. If the CFL governors ever do agree to an enforceable cap, they would still need approval from the CFL Players' Association as its collective bargaining agreement expires after this season.

Wright, who has yet to ink a new pact that would assure him of sticking around beyond this season, said committees are currently working on sorting out all of those details and he believes that such a cap will be in place before the 2006 season. He is hoping to add a 10th team to the circuit by 2008.

SOLD OUT

Although tonight's match has been sold out at St. Mary's University, where temporary stands have been added to reach a capacity of 11,000, there is still the sticky issue of erecting a new stadium at a reported cost of about $70 million. Wright believes a 25,000-seat venue, which could also host other events, is necessary to operate a successful franchise. Although some local businesses are anxious to get involved, some local politicians have expressed doubts, even if Halifax is expected to boom in the next decade or so. Wright did say the CFL will still consider other sites, such as Moncton, N.B., and Quebec City.

Wright has already discussed possible stadium plans with locals but much will be determined by the CFL's post-event analysis. However, he is encouraged by the enthusiasm of others in Halifax. They paid $62.50 and $40 for tickets. And a study has already shown that games could draw an average of 20,000 from the Halifax area alone, never mind the surrounding communities and provinces. The city has also proven it can host such wildly successful events as world junior hockey and the Brier (2003) recently.

"I'm excited about this opportunity," Wright said. "I'm confident that the league will continue to grow.

"We are ready for expansion and that's why this game is so important. But we need to make decisions and we need to make them quickly."

One of those will be whether the governors will agree to Wright's terms to continue as commish.

"I'm very encouraged that I will be able to finish what I started," Wright said. "Now I'm looking forward to the kitchen party (last night), and I may even have one or two beers."

TSN, by the way, will televise the game today at 6 p.m.

For fucks sakes! you people are all fucked up with your halifax/victoria shit!
Quebec city is the obvious place for football...LAVAL football proves it all!
You fishermen on the east coast can only dream about it.

It's good that he brought up the sports funding issue. As was mentioned in the article, we haven't seen anything since the 60's. If the federal government does kick in I'm sure there will be groaning about more "special treatment" for the region, but obviously it's not true and the same kind of funding has been granted in the rest of the country.

I'm pretty sure the CFL wants the next expansion team somewhere in Atlantic Canada, either Moncton, Halifax, or St. John's.

I think the CFL owners have gone off to Halifax for possible expansion. It would be great to have the whole country represented.
Maybe I have to study Quebec again.
Anyone who goes to the world's ugliest university to watch a game must be a fan.
After that, again, no question, London.

For fucks sakes! you people are all fucked up with your halifax/victoria shit!
Quebec city is the obvious place for football...LAVAL football proves it all!
You fishermen on the east coast can only dream about it.

go back to eating your poutine.

wow you BCians are pretty snobby..haha just joking(....not really)

I do have to admit that Halifax is a better choice than having another ontarian team from the same area (great lakes/ GTA) like london.
And then there's victoria which to my understanding does not make too much sence considering the pop./size and the fact that it is so close to vancouver itself.

...oh, and the toronto-hamilton game in Halifax kind of just gave it away..

Halifax it is then.

go back to eating your poutine.
I see we are making rash generalizations based on location... so why don't you go smoke some pot, hug a tree and steal a car? :)

Stealing a car? BC? Thought that would've been the Toronto stereotypes.
Oh wait, that's shooting people gangster style...lol

And btw IAmQuebecois, if your not going to eat that poutine, pass it along here okay

Speaking of poutines...You english-canadians are trying to make our poutine but for some reason you people make it with mozzerela cheese and you cant say it right lol.

...the whole point of this post is that...All provinces have their steriotypes...BC=pot, Ontario= bunch of immigrants, Quebec= homosexuals (cause of montreal) NS/NB/NFL/P.E.I= fishermen..and the rest just aren't improtant lol
Edit: sorry about the whole off-topic thing

Stealing a car? BC? Thought that would've been the Toronto stereotypes.
Oh wait, that's shooting people gangster style...lol

And btw IAmQuebecois, if your not going to eat that poutine, pass it along here okay

Nope ;)

Crime Category Vancouver, Canada Toronto, Canada
Robberies 412 58
Rapes 83 20
Homicides 5 1
Aggravated Assaults 815 252
Motor Vehicle Thefts 1244 5
Crime Lab Index 242 48

wow you BCians are pretty snobby..haha just joking(....not really)

I do have to admit that Halifax is a better choice than having another ontarian team from the same area (great lakes/ GTA) like london.
And then there's victoria which to my understanding does not make too much sence considering the pop./size and the fact that it is so close to vancouver itself.

...oh, and the toronto-hamilton game in Halifax kind of just gave it away..

Halifax it is then.

FYI, I was defending Halifax, not Victoria. I would rather have a CFL franchise in Quebec City than one across the inlet in Victoria.


Regarding the high crime rates in BC, well blame Ottawa for lack of police funding. BC by far has the lowest per capita funding for the RCMP by the feds.

Or...the car thefts could be a symptom of your mild weather...there's more convertibles. They're usually worth more, and they're easier to steal.
If I was a professional car thief, Vancouver would be my Canadian city of choice.

I voted Halifax in the poll, but QC should definetly be next.

If there are two teams added to the Eastern Conference, then there'd be a need for a new Western Conference. Uneven conferences suck! With one new team to the East, it'd be even. Maybe it'd be Halifax, then a year or so later, Quebec city and Victoria.

Speaking of poutines...You english-canadians are trying to make our poutine but for some reason you people make it with mozzerela cheese and you cant say it right lol.

...the whole point of this post is that...All provinces have their steriotypes...BC=pot, Ontario= bunch of immigrants, Quebec= homosexuals (cause of montreal) NS/NB/NFL/P.E.I= fishermen..and the rest just aren't improtant lol
Edit: sorry about the whole off-topic thing

What you missed a couple sterotypes. We are the most stereotyped province. Alberta = Rednecks, oil riggers, bible thumpers etc. Then Saskatchewan = Farmers. The north = Innuit. Manitoba I dont know anything for you guys.

Oh Alberta, we are so sorry. How could we forget you rednecks! :jk:

Hell we should start a thread we're instead of everyone bashing each other's region/city, we can only bash our own. It would go a long way in showing how ridiculous bashing can be. It would also expose stereotypes that often don't exist.
I personally like the redneck one because while Alberta has rednecks, what province does'nt. They're simply a stereotypical way of saying a rural person.
The BC pot smokers. I bet I can find some Ontarions who would challenge you for that title.
And Quebec with their poutine...okay they win that one. Only because they make it sooooo good! Everytime I go to Montreal, first meal I have is a big bucket of REAL poutine!


Anyways, samsonyuen, your right. We got to try to have even amount of teams in both conferences. It makes play off rankings more fair and even between both conferences.

Halifax may have a competitor in the quest to bring a CFL team to the Maritimes, the Canadian Press reports.

The city of Moncton has put in a bid for some federal funding to help build a stadium for a major international track meet... and perhaps a CFL franchise?

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/news_story.asp?ID=127928

It's suprising how little (optimistic) attention the media has given regarding a future CFL franchise since T.A.

This guy's such a downer:
http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2005/06/19/fNovaScotian149.raw.html

I would be disappointed, but not entirely surprised, if QC or Moncton get the team, based on the complete indifference that anyone important around here seems to have.

What’s the minimum stadium size from the CFL to be able host a team? I would expect 25,000.

I don't see what's so world-class about a 25,000 seat stadium.

Even if Moncton does build one they'll still be Moncton.

The "minimum" is 25000, although I think the smallest stadium being used for CFL right now (Molson) is only about 20000, and Commonwealth is 60000+. That article is treating it like it has to be the most lavish stadium in the country though and seems to assume that it will never be used for anything other than the CFL, which the columnist seems to think is the stupidest thing ever invented.

I want a CFL Team based in the either Yellowknife or Whitehorse. It would really give these underrated cities a boom.

^And the owner's will fly people out to Yellowknife for the games?:)

^And the owner's will fly people out to Yellowknife for the games?:)

and will we be playing each game under 5 metres of snow and under -40 degrees Celcius weather?

/\ Why not. They already do it in Edmonton, Regina and Winnipeg.

CFL governors discuss expansion, replay
Canadian Press

9/30/2005 6:34:08 PM
HAMILTON (CP) - For a change, CFL commissioner Tom Wright and the league's board of governors were able to look ahead to the future and not deal with an immediate crisis.
Wright and the board met Friday, discussing a myriad of subjects that included the dividends of the CFL's investment in its officiating, the use of instant replay for 2006 and the league's continued commitment to continue exploring adding a 10th franchise by the turn of the decade.
''The best part is the time was spent talking about the future and not just 2006 but also the next decade,'' Wright said. ''In the past with our league, we've spent time looking at the past.''
The meeting was Wright's first sit-down session with board members since July when he accepted their offer of a one-year contract extension to end an ugly two months of speculation regarding whether Wright would remain with the league. Back in May, board members gathered via conference call to discuss Wright's future while he was vacationing in France.
Wright wanted a two-year extension but could only get six of the required seven board members to support him. But enough governors favoured a one-year extension with the same conditions of Wright's existing contract, including no increase to his reported $400,000 annual salary.


''I've always said we'd be moving forward,'' Wright said. ''We've put forth an aggressive business agenda and we've got a business to run and that's what I'm focused on doing.''
Wright said the CFL will continue to look at adding a 10th franchise by 2010. He added the league remains open regarding what city the new team would be located in, be it Halifax, Moncton or even Quebec City.
''The key is that this be done right and we`ve always said that we`re not going to do it unless it can be done so,'' he said.
Last year during his Grey Cup address, Wright announced the CFL was tripling its investment in its officiating. Wright said 11 new officials have been added this season and that league personnel have seen a marked improvement in how on-field officials have handled games so far.
''We believe it has improved demonstratively,'' he said. ''We think the quality of our calls have increased and yet there has been a 20 per cent reduction in the number of penalties called in games.''
Still, the subject of instant replay remains on the table for CFL governors. Wright said the league's business model for next season includes replay, with a final presentation to be made to governors in January. If the board members vote in favour, then instant replay will be adopted in time for the 2006 season.
As for this year, Wright said attendance is up five per cent across the league, with B.C. (26 per cent increase), Toronto (19 per cent) and Calgary (11 per cent) leading the way. The commissioner also added television ratings are up 33 per cent at TSN (and 48 per cent in the male 19-to-49 demographic) and nine per cent at CBC, an amazing feat considering CBC has broadcast games without the use of commentators as a result of a labour lockout.
As well, Wright said CFL games are being broadcast in 75 million more households abroad this year compared to 2005.

We need more franchises...CFL needs to grow....I have had enough with Provincial named teams....

things needs to chage...if you are gonna add teams...we need a new CFL....Proximity creates rivialries in cities

Saskatchewan needs two teams: Regina Saskatoon

BC needs two teams...Victoria or Surrey....and then Vancouver

Quebec needs like 3...add a quebec city at least

Nova Scotia...needs a team badly...Halifax

and I would like a New Brunwick team

Also...put a team in Thunder Bay or Sudbury...so these cities can boom

We need more franchises...CFL needs to grow....I have had enough with Provincial named teams....

things needs to chage...if you are gonna add teams...we need a new CFL....Proximity creates rivialries in cities

Saskatchewan needs two teams: Regina Saskatoon

BC needs two teams...Victoria or Surrey....and then Vancouver

Quebec needs like 3...add a quebec city at least

Nova Scotia...needs a team badly...Halifax

and I would like a New Brunwick team

Also...put a team in Thunder Bay or Sudbury...so these cities can boom


I can tell you right now that Saskatchewan would not be able to support 2 teams, it just doesn't have enough of a population base to work off of. Plus the Roughriders have rivalries with every single western division team as it stands: Winnipeg because of Labour Day, Edmonton just because that's the way it has been for ages (as my mom keeps telling me), Calgary because of Burris, and BC because of last years playoffs/end of the season.

Many of the fans at Taylor field come from out of Regina. I was born in Saskatoon but I was a season ticket holder and travelled to all of the games. Also, it would be hard to make another team go in Saskatchewan... the roughriders, although they suck sometimes :(, have too much of a following.

Your other suggestions might possibly work, but I am little iffy on the Surrey/Vancouver thing, and where else in Quebec could support a team? Quebec City, Montreal and where?

But it would take quite a while before that many teams could be added anyway. Maybe by 2015-2020 we'll have 3 more teams in the league.

I am skeptical that adding a team in Northern Ontario will make the cities boom. I also don't think Vancouver and Surrey could each support a team (or do you mean one in Surrey, one in Victoria, and one more in Vancouver in addition to the Lions?). I think in the long term, Victoria and Kelowna will be able to support a couple of teams. Aside from Québec city and Montréal, I don't think Saguenay or Trois-Riviéres could support a team. I agree with NB being able to support a team alongside a Halifax team, but we'll have to wait.

Will this mean a CFL-ready stadium? The pieces are slowing coming together...
_______________________________
Halifax granted Commonwealth bid
Dec. 15, 2005. 10:26 AM
JIM BYERS
SPORTS REPORTER

Just look east to find Canada's bid for the 2014 Commonwealth Games.

A panel of Canadian Games officials this morning announced that Halifax had defeated three other municipalities and will carry the Canadian flag at the 2007 vote on where to stage the 2014 Games.

York Region, Hamilton and Ottawa also put in bids to be the Canadian representative on the 2014 ballot, which won't be in front of the international Commonwealth Games Federation until it meets in Sri Lanka in October, 2007.

Hamilton was the Canadian bid for the 2010 Games after defeating Halifax on the Canadian ballot. But international voters chose New Delhi over Hamilton for 2010, setting the stage for another Hamilton try.

Glasgow is also bidding for the 2014 Games, along with Abuja, the capital of Nigeria. Nigeria's bid could have the edge as the Commonwealth Games have never been staged in Africa.

The 1994 Games were held in Victoria and the 1998 Games in Kuala Lumpur. Manchester had the honours in 2002, while the 2006 version will be staged next March in Melbourne.

York Region bid chair Bill Crothers said the Commonwealth Games don't have the same reputation as the Olympics but that the 2014 Games will be bigger than the Winter Olympics, with up to 7,000 athletes from 72 countries playing more than a dozen sports.

Officials have said it could cost up to $1 billion to stage the Commonwealth Games in Canada if infrastructure costs are included. It's expected that senior levels of government will help pay most of the bill.

Hamilton staged the first Commonwealth Games in 1930, when they were known as the British Empire Games. They were held in Vancouver in 1954 and Edmonton in 1978.

congrads to Halifax! the maritimes deserve this, it's their time and it's the best choice for Canada!

Haha, it would never work to split saskatchewan into 2 teams. the whole province is behind the riders, and it runs deep so i dont think that people in saskatoon or around there would flip so easily. And for another thing, i dont think toronto or montreal could support another team. montreal has more of a chance than toronto. toronto has been in quite a tough spot financially lately, but it should get better once they get out of the skydome. I also thinkt that halifax is the most obvious choice. they have been talking about it for years anyways. plus it would even out the divisions seeing as there is more competition in the west at 5 teams.
I was just about to say that, rider pride is too deep within most people in Saskatchewan

I'm pretty sure the next team will be Halifax

Actually, I think the CFL should create another Saskatchewan team, but in Calgary :)

Stadium in Halifax could be CFL home
Dec. 16, 2005. 01:00 AM


The lack of a suitable stadium has been the main deterrent to a CFL franchise being placed in Halifax.

Well, the possibility of the long-awaited 10th franchise took a positive step yesterday when Nova Scotia's capital gained the right to be Canada's bid city for the 2014 Commonwealth Games.

If successful in obtaining the Games, a stadium would be needed as a key venue.

And when the Games are done, the facility could then become the home of a CFL franchise.

CFL commissioner Tom Wright suggested last night that if Halifax gets the Games the building of a stadium could be accelerated and be useable long before the event take place.

He also said he is confident that the CFL would work with Halifax to make sure that any facility would be football suitable.

"One of the reasons for a city bidding for a global event like the Commonwealth Games is the legacy that is left behind," he said. "There would obviously be a legacy left for not only our game, but for soccer, track and field, rugby and other sports so you want to make sure it's a multi-purpose stadium."

RICK MATSUMOTO

Tuesday » February 14 » 2006

Windsor 'ready and willing' for CFL expansion team
mayor

Matthew Sekeres
The Ottawa Citizen

Tuesday, January 31, 2006

WINDSOR - The mayor of Windsor says his city is "ready and willing" for a Canadian Football League expansion franchise and that the border-town's role as co-host of Super Bowl XL will prove its worthiness.

Eddie Francis, the youthful mayor elected in November 2003, said he wants to meet with CFL commissioner Tom Wright after Super Bowl XL, saying his city should be considered alongside Halifax and others should the league add a 10th franchise.

"The fact that football is so celebrated here, the CFL would be welcome. Windsor is a sports town and we're thirsting for more sport," Francis told the Citizen yesterday. "Super Bowl XL will prove that Windsor is more than willing, and ready, for a CFL team. I think there is a market for it here and a lot of Americans like the CFL also."

Wright has long spoken of the need for a 10th team to balance out the CFL schedule and divisions, and he hopes to have it in place by 2010. His preference is Halifax so that the CFL can become "a truly national league."

Moncton, London and Quebec City are also mentioned as potential expansion destinations. The lack of suitable stadiums in each proposed city is a major stumbling block.

The CFL announced last week that Halifax would host an exhibition game for a second straight year, an event dubbed "Touchdown Atlantic" that drew 11,000 last June.

London and Quebec City have also hosted exhibition games in the last four years, but the Nova Scotia capital is clearly the front-runner for an expansion team, particularly after winning the Canadian bid rights to the 2014 Commonwealth Games last month. Hosting the games would require a stadium with more than 20,000 seats that could be later be used for football.

For the moment, Huskies Stadium at St. Mary's University is the largest venue in town and will be the site for a pre-season game between the Ottawa Renegades and Montreal Alouettes on June 3.

The league views such exhibitions as barometers for expansion interest, meaning they are key precursors for cities wanting to be in the expansion mix. But Francis, 31, said he was not disappointed that Windsor has not yet been given such opportunity.

"That only motivates me to go out there and make sure it happens here," he said. "What we're trying to do is build up our case. ... We'll go through this (Super Bowl), prove ourselves and then certainly have those discussions (with the CFL."

Francis trumpeted his city's case saying a metropolitan population of six million, which includes Detroit, and its ready access to the NFL's Lions, the NBA's Pistons, the NHL's Red Wings and Major League Baseball's Tigers has made sports-watching "a way of life for us."

Wright said that he would be travelling to Super Bowl later this week and hoped to meet Francis. He also said the city has been discussed at the highest levels.

"The notion of taking a franchise to Windsor is actually one that has been discussed around the board of governors table," Wright said. "It could be a great opportunity to take a pre-season game to Windsor. I'm looking forward to meeting the mayor and discussing how we can grow the CFL in Windsor."

Francis isn't the only one who thinks the CFL could work here.

Ottawa Renegades president Lonie Glieberman, a Detroit native, met with Francis last year and also had several discussions with city officials when it appeared as though his father Bernie's bid to buy the Renegades had stalled. The Gliebermans possess CFL ownership rights to the Detroit-Windsor area, according to one report, and had looked at Michigan's Pontiac Silverdome as a potential stadium.

This week, Windsor will host the NFL's international media gala as well as provide 1,500 hotel rooms for out-of-town visitors. The city contributed $250,000 U.S. to the Detroit Super Bowl bid and Francis was named to the host committee.

The mayor said the benefits -- economic and otherwise -- of being involved with such a massive event will be immeasurable.

"This is the closest Canada will ever be to a Super Bowl. We're the only Canadian city to have its own Super Bowl mark," Francis said. "(Visitors) will learn about the city of Windsor and take in the Canadian experience through Windsor. This will allow us to introduce ourselves, or re-introduce ourselves, to the world and redefine what this city has to offer."

Windsor is basicly Detroit, so there are about 5 million people in that metro area. I see no reason why Quebec, Halifax and Windsor shouldn't get at team.

Windsor is basicly Detroit, so there are about 5 million people in that metro area. I see no reason why Quebec, Halifax and Windsor shouldn't get at team.

but most people in that 5 million metro area live in michign, and so they're going to like american football more. if you really want to count detroit as part of windsor, then you might as well put the team in detroit, because there are more people on that side of the river.

i think the best way for a windsor team to get americans in their fan base would be to market the cfl team as a cheaper alternative to the nfl. if the ticket prices are low, some people will be more inclined to watch a cfl game live for a much lower price than watching the lions live. the cfl team would also have to compete against the lions fans who watch lions games at home on tv. i think that would be even harder; if i'm a guy in michigan, i have two choices: either i stay at home and watch the lions and the nfl for free (meaning watching the top talent in the world for free), or i drive to another country and watch not-as-good talent for a price.

windsor might be able to support a cfl team on their own, but i don't think it's wise to bank on attracting a big american fan base.

The CFL season starts earlier then the NFL so during the summer months there will be no competition from the NFL. Like you said tickets will be cheaper so that will attract people in Detroit, which lets face it is not a very affluent city. I agree that the American fan base wouldn't be huge, but it would be a factor. Windsor also has about 300,000 people so they could on their own support the team.

I think Windsor could draw from parts of Southwestern Ontario like London, St. Catharines, Sarnia as well as parts of Metro Detroit.

From: http://winnipegsun.com/Sports/Football/2006/03/17/1492163-sun.html
______________________________________
Fri, March 17, 2006
Renegade rumours fly
CFL could partner with Glieberman to operate team

By BARRE CAMPBELL, SUN MEDIA


OTTAWA -- CFL governors are talking about Bernie Glieberman's exit as owner of the Ottawa Renegades not as a matter of if, but when.

And if Glieberman is to walk away from ownership of the team, governors would be left to decide -- in concert with the league -- the future of the franchise.

One source told Sun Media yesterday a scenario being discussed among governors is a partnership with Glieberman for the coming season, in which the owner would cover the bulk of the team's losses, with each team pitching in to keep it going.

In the meantime, a search for new ownership would take place.

But some governors are also discussing a bleaker plan in which the club would have its operations suspended for the 2006 campaign and revived for the following season should a new owner be found.


It's believed Glieberman, who did not return calls from Sun Media yesterday, wants to do what he can to keep the team alive in Ottawa, but not at any cost.

It has been estimated the Renegades could lose at least $5 million during the 2006 season.

Sources say Glieberman has spoken to people about buying into the Renegades.

One person contacted is Glenn Straub of Wellington, Fla., a real estate developer and entrepreneur, but it's unlikely he would be interested.

The owner of the Palm Beach Polo & Country Club bought the Miami Arena in an auction for a reported $28 million US two years ago.

Straub was at his office in Florida yesterday, but did not speak directly to Sun Media.

Through an e-mail from an assistant, Straub indicated he knows Glieberman and his son, Lonie, and that "they are respected businessmen."

Two years ago in a Florida publication, Straub said he bought a Florida business, Broward Yachts, "because it was there and unique and we buy things that need to be turned around."

That scenario could certainly be applied to the situation with the Renegades.

The team's ongoing saga took another turn earlier this week when word leaked that Glieberman was considering walking away from the club.

Earlier this month, Lonie Glieberman stepped aside as the team's business leader.

With few tickets being sold and little activity in corporate sales, Glieberman has been writing cheques to keep the team operating.

Meanwhile, minority owner Bill Smith, one of the club's founders, is hedging on his involvement with the team and has not given Glieberman an indication he would help shoulder the losses.

All the uncertainty is gaining attention from Renegades players.

Quarterback Kerry Joseph spoke of being discouraged after learning about the latest situation. Linebacker Jason Kralt, an original Renegade and Ottawa native, said he received several calls from teammates wondering what's going on.

"Guys are worried. They're wondering if there's going to be a dispersal draft, if there's going to be local ownership," he said. "They've got a whole bunch of questions that deserve answers because their careers are in a state of flux."

Joseph, speaking from Orlando, Fla., said he's hoping the problems are solved.

"But it's disheartening because guys have signed contracts with the trust and belief that there'd be football in Ottawa. You think of family and livelihood right now because we don't know what the future's going to hold."

Meanwhile, the club is on the verge of a deal to hold training camp at Carleton University.

Players would stay at residences and have meals on campus, with practices being held at various Ottawa and Gatineau fields, including many sessions at Frank Clair Stadium. Camp is scheduled to begin May 21.

From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060317.BRUNT17/TPStory/TPSports/
__________________________________
THE GAME
Wright fiddles, Ottawa burns

STEPHEN BRUNT

You wonder sometimes whether the people who run the Canadian Football League are shocked every morning to see the sun rise.

It didn't take a seer to know where the Ottawa Renegades were heading. It didn't require the gift of foresight to understand the looming disaster.

And yet here we go again -- the commissioner is on vacation, the franchise's very existence is up in the air and the inevitable crisis of confidence is in full bloom.

With this gang, it's always reactive, never proactive, even when the writing's on the wall. There's a pattern here, a history of not quite dealing with the toughest stuff, and that's going to make it awfully difficult for Tom Wright to defend his embattled leadership when his contract comes up for extension again in the spring.

Truth is, there were two real chances to save the CFL club in Ottawa, and both of those have now passed.

The first came during the months between the 2004 Grey Cup game, a wildly successful, positive event in the nation's capital, and the beginning of the 2005 season, when Bernie Glieberman was welcomed back into the fold after the Renegades' former ownership group became queasy about continuing to underwrite the club's losses.

Wright and the governors rolled the dice then, praying that this time it would be different, that when it came to the Gliebermans, lightning surely couldn't strike thrice.

And they were wrong.

The family's history -- or more correctly, the history of Bernie's son Lonie, who was immediately installed as the 'Gades president -- was well known to everyone in the CFL. There was every reason to believe that he'd run a business that was already fragile straight into the ground. The only question was how long it would take.

One comically awful season pretty much did it. By the end of the 2005 campaign, the Renegades had eroded every ounce of local goodwill and credibility. They were a laughingstock. And that situation certainly wasn't going to improve over the winter, with the detached, absent Forrest Gregg in charge of football operations and with Lonie's plan to cut costs to the bone, gut the front office and all but abandon conventional marketing.

You'd think the penny would have dropped somewhere along the line, after the Mardi Gras promotion, or the season-ticket giveaways, or the botched firing of Joe Paopao or the clear erosion of consumer confidence.

But no -- as long as Bernie was willing to pay the bills, the league was willing to turn a blind eye to what was taking place. Wright spent plenty of time this winter talking about instant replay, pie-in-the-sky expansion to Halifax and his salary cap, apparently oblivious to the fact that one of his league's nine franchises was in free fall.

The second chance to save the franchise -- after the 2005 Grey Cup, early in the off-season, when the league could have clarified Glieberman's commitment to the club and demanded to see a real marketing plan -- evaporated while Wright was desperately fighting to save his own job.

It is mid-March now. Training camps will open in just more than two months. The Ottawa Renegades don't even have a site. Nor do they have flights and rooms booked for the coming season. Nor do they have a business plan. Nor do they have much of a playing roster. Nor do they have a season-ticket base beyond what must be the most loyal 2,000 people on Earth. Nor do they have a real general manager, or a ticket sales staff, or a president or even the equipment necessary to outfit a team. Nor do they have money in the bank.

Nor do they have an owner willing to provide the massive investment that would be required to rebuild the franchise from something less than scratch, knowing for certain that the coming season would be calamitous.

Original investor Bill Smith doesn't want to spend another nickel unless he's convinced that there's a real chance for success. And Bernie Glieberman understands now that such a chance would require a significant cash outlay and significant risk -- and understandably, he's not anxious to emerge from 2006 as much as $10-million in the hole thanks to a hobby business in a foreign land that no longer even keeps his kid occupied.

Wright, the league office assures everyone, has been in constant contact from a beach in the Dominican Republic, just as he was in constant contact from Paris during the last Renegades' crisis. (Though anyone who sends him an e-mail this week will receive a programmed response that details the delights of holidaying in a place that lies outside the wired universe.)

When he returns, he'll be on the clock. Too bad he didn't hear it ticking so long ago.

Move the team to the HALIFAX and be done with it .

From: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1144619553751&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064&t=TS_Home
________________________
CFL right to fold Gades
And don't expect them ever to return to Ottawa again
Apr. 10, 2006. 03:57 PM
DAMIEN COX

Even for the CFL, this is a new one.
This league has folded franchises and watched teams fold themselves, carried clubs through bankruptcy and allowed teams to be reborn in Canada with the remnants of defunct U.S. franchises.
But never before has a team, and a city, been put on hold.
Ottawa and the Renegades may be back for 2007, but we know for sure they won't be participating in this year's CFL season. The league's board of governors, after an eight-hour meeting at a hotel near Pearson Airport yesterday, put the Gades on ice for '06 while keeping alive the possibility that football may return to the nation's capital in 12 months.
Just don't hold your breath.
The Renegades, by then, won't have any recognizable players, and cynicism over pigskin in Ottawa will be at an all-time high, which means even the best possible owner will have an enormous rebuilding job to do.
Perhaps such a person would rather give it a go in Halifax. Or Quebec City.
But Ottawa? Despite the contention of CFL owners like Bob Young that there's nothing wrong with the market, the viability of the city for the CFL can't be documented by anything that's happened, really, over the past quarter century.
The CFL definitely did the right thing here. Having a long, terrible summer in Ottawa with terrible attendance while the league caught the bills was no option at all, and there was no serious owner interested in giving it a go for this season.
Yep, the Glieber-guys really did a job this time, didn't they? Lonie was clueless, Bernie was only in it to keep his dopey son busy and the fact Tom Wright let these skunks in for a second go-round defies logic.
The repercussions of yesterday's decision were four-fold:
Touchdown Atlantic, scheduled for late June in Halifax between Ottawa and Montreal, has been cancelled. None of the other seven teams were interested in participating in the exhibition tilt at this late notice.
Winnipeg, set to host the Grey Cup next November, is moving back to the East Division for the third time in the past 20 years.
A new CFL schedule was sent out last night. For the Argonauts, they now open against Hamilton instead of Saskatchewan, and get an extra home date against the Tabbies as well.
The eight remaining teams will fatten themselves on the carcass of the Gades via a dispersal draft later this month, which means that the overall quality of play may be even higher than it would have been with nine teams.
Hamilton will have the top pick, with the gems expected to be quarterback Kerry Joseph and receiver Jason Armstead. Look for the Tiger-Cats to go for Armstead, also a talented kick returner, unless they believe they can draft Joseph and trade him, perhaps to Saskatchewan.
The league can take solace in the fact that the eight remaining teams are all solid to varying degrees, with five profitable. Indeed, suspending the Gades would have been a far more difficult decision if one of the other eight clubs was in trouble.
The league's dream, after all, may be to get to 10 teams, but it knows that if the number of franchises dwindles to seven, it could be curtains.
As it stands, none of the existing clubs will miss the Gades, a team that wasn't a great draw on TV or in other cities.
Frankly, those of us who love the CFL have only fond memories of the Rough Riders, of Tom Clements and Tony Gabriel or, for those of a different generation, of Ron Stewart and Russ Jackson.
The Renegades? They were about as near and dear as the Las Vegas Posse or Sacramento Gold Miners.
Insiders suggest there's a 50/50 chance of an Ottawa team coming back for '07, and if it happens, it will be with the first serious ownership group behind the team than has been the case since the 1980s.
So Ottawa either will come back with a real chance to flourish, or the league will be looking for not one but two expansion cities.

Why not just move them to Windsor or Halifax or Quebec?
What a shame.

From: http://www.canada.com:80/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=8b23e358-71cd-4d56-843d-80e8cf059aeb&p=2
_________________________
League puts Renegades on ice
Officially, team is suspended, but many fear CFL franchise is dead

Matthew Sekeres, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Monday, April 10, 2006
TORONTO - The Ottawa Renegades died yesterday.
In a Toronto airport hotel, Canadian Football League governors unanimously hammered the final nail into the infant franchise's coffin. In so doing, the league contracted to eight teams for at least the 2006 season, a massive credibility blow that will raise future questions about its financial viability.
More immediately, a league that trumpets its nationalism is left without a presence in the nation's capital.
Again.
"Instead of making a short-term decision to prop up the franchise in Ottawa, the league can make a strong decision," commissioner Tom Wright said yesterday. "The strong decision is: to get it right, or don't do it at all. We will get it right."
Officially, the league announced that it is "suspending" the Renegades operations for 2006, but Mr. Wright had no specific timetable for a return.

He suggested that it could take more than one year to find an appropriate owner.
It might take longer to heal reopened wounds among the city's football faithful, many of whom felt the league ignored obvious signs of the Renegades' demise.
"If it takes one year, terrific. If it takes two years, terrific," Mr. Wright said. "The point is we will only do it if we can do it right."
The league said funding the Renegades would not have yielded a competitive team this season, but many fans have said that professional football cannot afford to disappear and that the CFL and its clubs had a responsibility, if not an obligation, to keep the team alive.
"Suspending the franchise is as good as killing it. I don't believe there will be enough interest at this point next year. It was this year or nothing," said Rob Joachim, 35, a season-ticket holder since Day 1 and a charter member of Renegade Nation, the team's unofficial fan club. "For me, this leaves an extremely big void."
A dispersal draft of Renegades players will take place "in the next several days," Mr. Wright said, after the league has consulted with the CFL Players' Association.
"I'm very disappointed," quarterback Kerry Joseph said from Florida. "Not just for our team, but for our fans. "
The Touchdown Atlantic exhibition game scheduled for June 3 in Halifax between the Renegades and Montreal Alouettes was cancelled, and the league released a new eight-team schedule yesterday.
This marks the second time in a decade that the CFL has lost its Ottawa franchise. The 120-year-old Rough Riders were collapsed after the 1995 season, and it took six years before the expansion Renegades were formed by a consortium of Toronto investors. The Renegades played four seasons and finished with an all-time mark of 23-49, all under former head coach Joe Paopao.
After the 2004 season, highlighted by the Grey Cup game at Frank Clair Stadium, the original ownership group, fronted by former team president Brad Watters, became embroiled in a bitter financial dispute that lasted throughout the six-month off-season.
The matter was only resolved days into the team's fourth training camp when Detroit real-estate developer Bernie Glieberman purchased controlling interest of the team, returning to the city where his name had become a laughingstock. Mr. Glieberman owned the Rough Riders for a disastrous tenure from 1992-94. Minus the abstention of B.C. Lions owner David Braley, governors unanimously approved Mr. Glieberman's return to the CFL, saying that Mr. Glieberman and his son Lonie had learned from past mistakes.
Less than one year later, history proves otherwise.
By November, many who saw this day coming were calling for the removal of Lonie Glieberman, the team's president. Instead, the league passed a ceremonial motion supporting the franchise's direction.
The younger Glieberman's list of mistakes is long.
He alienated season-ticket holders by severely discounting prices just days before the home opener. He sullied the team's image with risque promotions and stripped down the front office to the bare bone, believing a football team could operate on a shoe-string budget like the family's ski resort in northern Michigan.
On March 3, he resigned, hoping the move would salvage his father's partnership with minority owner Bill Smith. Instead, his father lost interest in the team and began looking for an exit.
Mr. Wright admitted yesterday that the league could have been more "rigorous" in finding a new Ottawa owner this winter and accepted responsibility for the team's dissolution.
Mr. Wright tried to use "hindsight" as his rationale, just as he had with the bankruptcies of both southern Ontario franchises in 2003. When reminded of that, Mr. Wright said sheepishly: "We have foresight now."
The Renegades were expected to lose between $4 million and $6 million this season. Mr. Glieberman and Mr. Smith informed the league last month that they weren't prepared to see the team through the year.
The elder Glieberman did not return calls from the Citizen yesterday, but previously pledged to refund roughly $800,000 in season-ticket money to roughly 2,000 customers.

Move the team to the HALIFAX and be done with it .
I agree, this is being dragged out too long.

I believe that we have learned quite a lesson here.

Ottawa is to Canadian football what Montreal is to baseball.

Both will likely never see teams again in either of these sports because both cities screwed up big time.

just wait untill 2018 when the next expantion team is in .... OTTAWA again.

I'd like to see an expansion team either here in Halifax or in Quebec City (preferably both). I hope we get the Commonwealth Games so we'll finally build that damn stadium. And enough of this Moncton stuff.

agreed , the team should be in Halifax.

Ottawa for sure ;)

:gaah: :goodbye:

I believe that we have learned quite a lesson here.

Ottawa is to Canadian football what Montreal is to baseball.

Both will likely never see teams again in either of these sports because both cities screwed up big time.

I wouldn't get too upset. The Renegades are just Ottawa's version of the Montreal Concordes which also lasted only a few years.

From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060414.wxrenegades14/BNStory/Sports/home
__________________
Brewer eyes Renegades
Beer baron hasn't made formal offer

ANDY HOFFMAN
From Friday's Globe and Mail
A fledgling Ontario brewery with financial backing from billionaire pharmaceutical magnate Bernard (Barry) Sherman wants to resuscitate Ottawa's Canadian Football League franchise.

Frank D'Angelo, the Toronto-based head of Steelback Brewery, announced his intention to "save the beleaguered CFL club from gridiron extinction" by purchasing the franchise.

However, the outspoken chief executive officer, who also heads a food company, D'Angelo Brands Ltd., said a formal offer for the club had not been made, adding he had "left a message" with the league commissioner.

"If we could make a deal it would be a good fit for us," D'Angelo said. "It's disgusting the way that turned out -- a team in the capital, just before the season unfolds, all those poor people without jobs."

Steelback is a small, upstart brewery in Tiverton, Ont., about 250 kilometres northwest of Toronto, whose brands include Copperhead Pilsner and Bruce County Wild. In recent months, the company has spent millions of dollars advertising in the province in an attempt to generate interest in its beer.

Steelback's television commercials feature D'Angelo bantering in a hockey dressing room with former National Hockey League stars Phil Esposito, Dennis Hull and Brad Park.

"Do the sales warrant the amount of advertising that we've done?" D'Angelo said. "Absolutely not."

The company's marketing budget is approved and financed in part with the deep pockets of Sherman, who controls one of Canada's biggest drug companies, Apotex Inc. of Toronto. According to Forbes magazine's billionaires list, the 64-year-old has a net worth of $3.7-billion (U.S.) .

"I was consulted," Sherman said in an interview yesterday. "I'm aware they're investigating a purchase of the team."

He said he is "not yet" a football fan, but could bring in other partners in a deal to buy the Ottawa team.

"It's certainly a possibility," he said. "Whether that will happen, I don't know. There could be other people who join us as investors."

The timing of D'Angelo's interest is curious. The Ottawa Renegades went up for sale on March 22, with the league soliciting interested parties for a period of 2½ weeks before suspending the franchise's operations last weekend.

B.C. Lions owner David Braley, part of the CFL's Ottawa ownership search committee, said he has never spoken to D'Angelo or anyone associated with him.

D'Angelo has drawn attention for his unorthodox approach to marketing his products. Disgraced sprinter Ben Johnson is the pitchman for D'Angelo's energy drink brand, Cheetah.

A television commercial features Johnson, who was stripped of his Olympic gold medal for testing positive for steroid use at the Seoul Games in 1988, being asked whether he cheats when he runs. "Absolutely, I Cheetah all the time," Johnson replies.

Sherman dismissed the suggestion that D'Angelo's interest in the Renegades was a publicity stunt. "I don't think that's correct," he said.

However, it appears D'Angelo intends to use the team as a marketing vehicle for his products if he manages to buy the franchise.

"They wouldn't be called the Ottawa Renegades, they'd be called the Ottawa Cheetahs," he said.

The league has set no timetable for returning to Ottawa, stating only it would do so after the right owner for the team is found.

With a report from David Naylor

I don't think it's been mentioned, but this is interesting. I read awhile back that Halifax was actually granted a CFL franchise around 1981 or so? I think they were called the Halifax Schooners. They put a team together but it never got off the ground, again due to stadium difficulties.

Can anyone back this up?

I thought it was the Atlantic Schooners? I think there's a Wikipedia entry on it. www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Schooners

IMO, the next CFL team should go to either halifax of quebec city, they both have good university football in the area and dont have any other professional teams to distract the fans from football ... unlike Ottawa, who has proven twice now that they are uncapable of having a profitable football club
the only thing ottawa has in its favour is population, but places like saskatchewan, who have no other professional teams, have proven to have a HUGE fanbase and interest in football
thats y i take halifax and quebec to be CFL teams 9 and 10 ... over ottawa

From: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/sports/story.html?id=c63ebdbd-822c-45fe-9e6c-515817777e0b
____________________________
CFL delay plan miffs D'Angelo
Franchise suitor says club in Ottawa could play in 2007

Matthew Sekeres, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Thursday, April 20, 2006
It resembles a scene from the movie Old School, where Frank the Tank implores his fellow party-goers to join him for a midnight streak, then disrobes before them to prove his commitment to the idea.
Frank D'Angelo says he is not Frank the Tank. On the contrary, he says: "I'm not the emperor with no clothes." Still, at the same time, D'Angelo is feeling alone in his enthusiasm for reviving the just-buried Ottawa Renegades, and he doesn't think the idea is as wacky as a midnight streak.
"I remain 150 per cent committed," said D'Angelo, the president and chief executive officer of D'Angelo Brands and Steelback Brewery. "We're Ottawa nuts right now. We're CFL nuts. We see ourselves in the stadium, and we hear the roar of the crowd."
D'Angelo stepped forward last week just as the club's roster was being dismantled, hoping for a quick meeting with the CFL and access to the team's financial records. Instead, D'Angelo said he was told that the league would only meet with him next month, and it still can't promise him an audience with commissioner Tom Wright.
"I'm hoping these guys take us seriously because we really want this," he said. "My people would like to expedite this because we want a full year to build this up."
How seriously D'Angelo is taken from here could depend on the interest level of one of his friends: pharmaceutical billionaire Dr. Barry Sherman. The head of Apotex Inc., Canada's largest no-name drug manufacturer, has the financial wherewithal and business credibility that catches attention and allays concerns.
"He is an equity investor in my company, and I can assure you that when we make a decision, we are all on the same page," D'Angelo said. "I can't speak for Barry on any of this, but it would probably make him a football fan."
D'Angelo said he was coming to Ottawa next week to survey Frank Clair Stadium and hoped to meet with city officials. The beer pitchman insists myriad hurdles can be cleared in short order and that a team can be successfully launched by 2007.
The league says officials will eventually meet with D'Angelo at an undetermined time.
In the interim, several organizations are contemplating a change in commissioner, so, for the moment, re-launching Ottawa is on the back burner. Others want a full expansion process, including bids from several cities, while others are simply unconvinced Ottawa will work as a CFL market.
Still, D'Angelo wants to hear none of the naysaying, claiming he has hundreds of e-mails from Ottawa fans and the potential for a foolproof business strategy: beer and football.
He said a $10-million bond to secure the franchise in Ottawa was "not a problem, it makes sense," but was less bullish about a $5-million franchise fee.
"It's called negotiation," he said. "We're going to work and see if we make a deal good for the CFL and for my company. I believe we can make a deal with the CFL."
D'Angelo would also want to bring down the club's lease with the city, which presents more potential delays given the fall election. He also wants pouring rights in the stadium, which are currently held by another company.

From: http://www.canada.com/topics/sports/story.html?id=b8d68eeb-744a-4032-bbdd-fade34d2e3aa
____________________________
CFL cautiously considers return to Ottawa
"It won't be, 'Hey, I have $10 million, give me the keys' "

CanWest News Service
Published: Monday, July 31, 2006

The Canadian Football League says it has learned a lesson.
After the suspension of the Ottawa Renegades in April, league power brokers are working on a return to the nation's capital premised on more than the usual ownership criteria. You could call it the Lonie Glieberman Rule, which decrees that the person running the show -- namely the club president -- is more important than the person cutting the cheques.
"We're far more concerned about (the president), to be honest, than we are about the owner," said Calgary Stampeders president Ted Hellard, chairman of the CFL's franchise committee. "It won't be, 'Hey, I have $10 million, give me the keys.' We're not looking to go back to Ottawa unless they understand the league."
Hellard's committee met earlier this month and established guidelines for proceeding with an expansion back to Ottawa. The league has an Oct. 31 deadline to approve a new owner, although a deal would have to be worked out a month before that for a team to launch in 2007.
At least three groups are pursuing a team, including Golden Gate Capital Corp., a Toronto financial services company led by chief executive Anthony Primerano. The former chief of staff to Albina Guarnieri, the Veterans Affairs minister in Paul Martin's Liberal government, has met with several candidates for front-office positions, suggesting he would not assume the president's chair in Ottawa.
"As far as I'm concerned, we're moving forward on the bid," Primerano said Sunday.
Another group comprises eight to 10 American investors, some of whom have interests in a minor-league baseball franchise; it is led by an unidentified former CFL player with strong Ottawa ties. A representative from the group met with CFL commissioner Tom Wright on Thursday.
Frank D'Angelo and financier Dr. Barry Sherman, head of pharmaceutical giant Apotex Inc. and one of Canada's wealthiest individuals, are also interested. D'Angelo, president of D'Angelo Brands and Steelback Brewery, said Sunday he signed a confidentiality agreement with the league and would not discuss his bid.
"I'm so excited I'm bursting, but I can't tell you anything or I'll get in trouble," the flamboyant food-and-beverage entrepreneur said.
ARGO WOES LAUGHABLE?
John Avery's life with the Toronto Argonauts has provided a dependable source of material for his life as a stand-up comedian this summer -- especially when it involves teammate Ricky Williams, whom he recently joked was given his job before "he drew a breath of Canadian air."
But that was before Williams broke his arm and, in an almost farcical twist, before Avery himself was injured while preparing to reclaim his place as the team's starting running back early last week.
"This is a little too sensitive," he said, smiling. "I'd go from comedy to crying on stage."
Offensive co-ordinator Kent Austin has come under fire from fans over his schemes, but the problem might be the fact he has never had a consistent group of players upon which to base a plan. Austin had to tweak his system when Williams arrived a week into training camp, only to lose Williams to a broken left arm nine days ago.
Allen returned Saturday after going down early in the first game, and Avery went down before he could finish his first real week of practice.
Tony Miles, Toronto's leading receiver last season, expects to return against Montreal this week.
"What we've got to do is get everyone on the same page and start winning some football games," he said. "Get some confidence back in our team and just go from there -- start laughing and joking again in our locker-room, because it's too tense right now."

they will never learn, go east to HALI and you may not have these problems .

I don't know why it just can't work in Ottawa...bad ownership mostly.

give Halifax the team! they deserve it!! lets name it the Halifax Keiths or Halifax Acadians or something.

as for spliting the Saskatchewan market:
since they are known as the Saskatchewan Roughriders, why don't they split their home games between Regina and Saskatoon?

I don't think it's been mentioned, but this is interesting. I read awhile back that Halifax was actually granted a CFL franchise around 1981 or so? I think they were called the Halifax Schooners. They put a team together but it never got off the ground, again due to stadium difficulties.

Can anyone back this up?
There's an article about it on the fifth page of this thread - says the reason it never happened was because the federal government put forward $5 million for a new stadium and then pulled out at the last minute. :bash:

Edit: Why the heck is the stadium price today supposed to be $60 million? Back in 1983, according to the article, the price was $6.9 million for a 30,000 seater in Dartmouth.

Is there a big enough Saskatoon stadium for the RR? I guess where the U of S Huskies play?

Why should the fed government pay for the stadium anyway? The province or city, yes, but not the feds!

Because the city and province could never afford it?

Is there a big enough Saskatoon stadium for the RR? I guess where the U of S Huskies play?

Why should the fed government pay for the stadium anyway? The province or city, yes, but not the feds!

Haha, not even close... the Huskies play at Griffiths Stadium I think... and that cannot seat more than 10,000... I don't know the exact figures (although it is being expanded for the Vanier Cup), but it's definately nothing in comparison to Taylor Field (28,000+ at the moment... but soon to be expanded as part of the whole renovation stuff in the drive to host the hundredth Grey Cup).

And are you suggesting the Riders move to Saskatoon to play? It would never happen. They are much too involved in Regina to move... plus there is more support in Regina for them. I lived in Saskatoon until I was 12 and then Regina til now, so I do know first hand. Pretty much the whole province loves them, but it's strongest in Regina.

^No, I was just responding to the thread that suggested alternating between the two SK cities.

^ ^If the city and province can't pay for it, I don't think the feds should subsidise it. They don't for anyone else...

...And are you suggesting the Riders move to Saskatoon to play?

no no no. the idea was to split the home games between Saskatoon and Regina. however feeble the attempt. i know the Montreal Expos in their last season in MLB played half its home games in San Jaun, Puerto Rico. i was thinking why not have 4 out of 8 home games in Saskatoon, and the other 4 in Regina?

someone earlier had mentioned splitting the saskatchewan market, i think this would be a more feasable idea.

^ ^If the city and province can't pay for it, I don't think the feds should subsidise it. They don't for anyone else...
They helped to pay for the $600 million SkyDome in the late 80s..

no no no. the idea was to split the home games between Saskatoon and Regina. however feeble the attempt. i know the Montreal Expos in their last season in MLB played half its home games in San Jaun, Puerto Rico. i was thinking why not have 4 out of 8 home games in Saskatoon, and the other 4 in Regina?

someone earlier had mentioned splitting the saskatchewan market, i think this would be a more feasable idea.

I still think that would be a stupid idea. There are 10 home games btw...

To have 2 stadiums for one team is not ecomonically viable. What happens with season tickets? You'd have to buy 2 sets, one for each stadium, and then what of all the extra administration costs involved in the extra work for the 2 stadiums? Upkeep of the stadiums is also another issue. Youd have to have double the employees to cover everyting (maintenance, souvenir store, concession ppl, accountants, etc)

And splitting the market wouldn't work either. There wouldn't be enough support for another team to start up. Maybe when Saskatoon reaches 750,000 you could try, and even then it may not work because the riders are supported all over. But now, it definately wouldn't work.

Alberta can support 2 teams because you've always had 2, and you guys have the population base to work off of. If Saskatchewan had 2 teams from nearly the beginning it could have worked - there would have been a heated rivalry that's for sure - but since it's always only be the riders, it would be harder to start a team here.

Didn't they drop any cash on the Olympic Stadium? Or the Saddledome? Or Commonwealth Stadium (Edm)?

Didn't they drop any cash on the Olympic Stadium? Or the Saddledome? Or Commonwealth Stadium (Edm)?
Yes for the olympic stadium and Saddledome. (Couldn't find anything on the Commonwealth Stadium).

Yes for the olympic stadium and Saddledome. (Couldn't find anything on the Commonwealth Stadium).

Commonwealth Stadium was built for the Commonwealth Games... and I believe the Feds would have kicked in to help host it. So any gift for the stadium would probably have been lumped into the general support for hosting the games.

I don't think the federal government should have paid for the Skydome either. And not all the $600 m was paid by the feds, it was more like a third. Although, if Halifax were to win the Commonwealth Games, would the CFL stadium be used in it? If so, then it makes sense for them to pay for part of it.

Yes, it's been openly stated that if Halifax can build a stadium within the next few years then we will be pretty much guaranteed a CFL team. If the feds pitched in on Edmonton's Commonwealth Games facilities I don't see how it would be fair for them to not help pay for ours.

i know the Montreal Expos in their last season in MLB played half its home games in San Jaun, Puerto Rico.

Correction, they played 12 games in San Juan. The other 70 games were played at the Big O.

Correction, they played 12 games in San Juan. The other 70 games were played at the Big O.
Those games were ridiculous. they didn't draw a whole lot more than we did.
What was worse was that a game that actually drew some people to the ballpark (Expos vs. Jays), was played in Puerto Rico where it would have no significance!

^That was such a pillaging of the team!

Sometimes I wish i had 10 billion dollars! I'd buy back the Expos, and I'd have Bud "Buttface" Selig fired

Sometimes I wish i had 10 billion dollars! I'd buy back the Expos, and I'd have Bud "Buttface" Selig fired
Same here. On top of that, bring back the Nordiques and Jets to the NHL and CFL teams to Halifax and Quebec City.

Sometimes I wish i had 10 billion dollars! I'd buy back the Expos, and I'd have Bud "Buttface" Selig fired

You're kidding! What a coincidence! I often wish I had 10 billion dollars but I
thought I was the only one.... :)

You're kidding! What a coincidence! I often wish I had 10 billion dollars but I
thought I was the only one.... :)

Yay!!! I'm not alone!!!! :jk:

From: http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Football/CFL/Ottawa/2006/08/14/1753685-sun.html
________________
Rough ride in Ottawa?
CFL must avoid repeating mistakes
By JONATHAN HUNTINGTON -- Edmonton Sun

The CFL community is buzzing with excitement over three apparent groups being interested in reviving football in Ottawa - but this entire process to find a new owner likely means nothing unless the league's top executives allow the team a legitimate opportunity to be competitive.

Some CFL insiders are already confidently predicting that football will be back in the nation's capital next year.

However, the Ottawa team will have very little chance - if any - to survive if it can only produce two or three wins per season in its first few years.

The hardcore fan base in the region is probably too small and the casual fan base too frustrated to withstand abysmal records.

While it's unclear what the rules will be for stocking an Ottawa franchise with talent - if one gets off the ground - here's a passionate plea to the CFL's brain trust: don't make the same mistake as last time.



When the Renegades built their initial roster in 2002, their management had its hands tied with the expansion draft rules, which allowed every existing team to protect nearly every starting Canadian.

Obviously, the keys to building a great CFL team are a top-notch quarterback and an outstanding group of Canadian talent.

So, the draft rules used in 2002 - which hardly left any decent non-import talent available - need to be scrapped.

Here's a suggestion of the rules a new Ottawa team could live by, which could definitely make the franchise competitive in the first two years and on the same page as everyone after Year 3.

Rule 1: Don't make Canadians part of the expansion draft. Every current team keeps their non-import talent, making existing member clubs happy. It's also a concession to them because the rest of the rules are different for Ottawa.

Rule 2: Let the new team build Canadian talent through free agency and the college draft by giving the club the first two picks in every round in 2007.

Rule 3: Give Ottawa a three-year phase-in on Canadian talent. Allow the coach to only dress 12 non-imports in Year 1, 16 in Year 2 and the regular allotment of 20 in Year 3. This allows the franchise to be competitive in the short term with extra Americans and gives the club the necessary time to properly build a complete Canadian base.

Rule 4: Each existing team is allowed to protect 11 imports for a two-round draft.

FINISH LINES: One of the three groups - a U.S. consortium of eight-to-10 investors - has apparently agreed to pay $100,000 to former owner Horn Chen for the rights to the Rough Rider name. The Golden Gate bid, with local icon Jeff Hunt, is also apparently interested in the name. No word on the current intentions of the other bidder - Frank D'Angelo ... According to a report, the CFL will apparently enter a 30-day negotiation window with the three interested parties on Sept. 11.

Yes. Whoops!

^ wrong thread? :runaway:

Yes for the olympic stadium and Saddledome. (Couldn't find anything on the Commonwealth Stadium).

The olympic stadium in montreal was paid for by the taxpayers of quebec and montreal exclusively. The smartest thing pierre trudeau did was refuse to fund the 1976 summer olympics. IF Roger Thiebert and Jean Drapeau had of gotten access to the canadian treasury like they did with the province of quebec we would be looking at 3 billion dollars worth of debt for the olympics as opposed to 1.5 billion in 1976 dollars.

What you people in the HRM want is for the Feds to pay a far greater ammount then what has ever been paid in the past to commonwealth games or olympics. It is classic mismanagement of anything in the HRM with government money involved.

There is no injustice in Halifax not having a stadium as we dont have the population and places like Ottawa, Regina , Calgary , Winnipeg and Hamilton didnt built these CFL stadiums on the backs of sport festivals. With the current rooster of stadiums in the CFL including the newest home of the montreal aloulettes 6 of the 9 cfl teams are in stadiums with very little federal funding for construction or maintainance.

Yes Halifax is so badly mistreated by the rest of canada for something that has very questionable value. I bet Ottawa would like to have a third kick at the CFL can LOL. The Ottawa situation points to the value of a CFL franchise.
Toronto's franchise pays nothing to Ted Rogers to occupy the Roger Centre.

If Halfiax was to end up with a stadium we would be subject to franchise blackmail on the rent as there would be no other tennant for a halifax stadium .

jim jones

The olympic stadium in montreal was paid for by the taxpayers of quebec and montreal exclusively. The smartest thing pierre trudeau did was refuse to fund the 1976 summer olympics. IF Roger Thiebert and Jean Drapeau had of gotten access to the canadian treasury like they did with the province of quebec we would be looking at 3 billion dollars worth of debt for the olympics as opposed to 1.5 billion in 1976 dollars.

Can I see a source? I'm fairly certain the Montreal Olympic stadium received federal funding..

There is no injustice in Halifax not having a stadium as we dont have the population and places like Ottawa, Regina , Calgary , Winnipeg and Hamilton didnt built these CFL stadiums on the backs of sport festivals.

For Hamilton it's stadium was built to create a new sporting festival called back in the days Empire Games which is now known as Commonwealth Games. Before the stadium was called Ivor Wynne Stadium it was called Civic Stadium. Hamilton Spectator sportswriter Bobby Robinson came up with an idea to create a friendly game to unite all Commonwealth nations together. So Robinson pushed Hamilton to create the Jimmy Thompson Pool and Ivor Wynne Stadium.

Ottawa should be the only concern for the CFL right now, that needs to work first. After that who knows?

Can I see a source? I'm fairly certain the Montreal Olympic stadium received federal funding..

Beleive me I am of the age to remember that and Trudeau was adamate that no funding even for the operation of the summer games in 1976 was to be made by the federal government . The city was on its own until about 1974 when the province took a rescue role that would end up with a 19 cent per pack tabacco tax for quebecs to this very day to pay off the 1.5 billion dollar debt. The federal government allowed for a national lottery and olympic coins so that Drapeau and company could "self finance the games" . The federal government picked up the tab for the security and of course the Host broadcaster duties performed by the CBC. That was the extent of the federal involvement with venues for the 1976 games in montreal.

The security amounted to a cost that would compare to only 10 percent of the debt quebecs endured from the 1976 olympics. security was a 150 million dollar bill for monteal. After the 1976 olympics diasaster is was mandated by the International olympic committee that if a host city did not have federal funding secured at the time of the biding then a biding city would be disqualified from the biding process. Calgary had roughly 120 million of city funding, 250 of province of alberta funding and 350 million of federal fundng with the rest coming from private sector money including a 396 million dollar windfall from a Tv rights biding war between the three major american TV networks . Calgary realized a 70 million dollar plus profit because of the unforeseen TV rights war for the united states market. Calgary was also the benefactor of huge corporate sponsorship deals that Avery Brundage would not allow in the 1970's . Peter Ubberhopf the chairman on the los angeles games turned that policy around because the olympics was that far away from going under world wide that the europeans had to bend to commericalizing the games . Los Angeles realized a 300 million dollar profit and sent the standard for how games would be operated.

Here are some great video an audio clips from the CBC on what happened with the 1976 olympics
http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-41-1316-7918/sports/montreal_olympic_games/clip2
http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-41-1373-8382/sports/olympic_bids/clip1
http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-41-1373-8383/sports/olympic_bids/clip2
http://archives.cbc.ca/IDCC-1-41-1316-7930/sports/montreal_olympic_games/
http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-41-1316-7812/sports/montreal_olympic_games/clip4

The second last one shows the financing in pretty good detail and the opinions at the time of the provincial and montreal city finance people . It also shows the concern on Wall Street for the bonds Montreal was issuing to pay for Roger Thiibierts Grand vison of Disney's Space Mountian in montreal without the roller coaster inside.
The last video clip is of the Con artist architect from france that if he had of had his mits on the canadain treasury would have ripped us off blind with no problems in his megalmaniac mind.

jim jones

From: http://ottsun.canoe.ca/Sports/Football/2006/12/08/2686096-sun.html
_________
Fri, December 8, 2006
Rough Ride for CFL hopes
And then there were none? It looks like third investor out of football picture in Ottawa

By DON BRENNAN

From three, to two, to one .... now none?

The dwindling list of known suitors for a CFL team in Ottawa appears to be blank with talk that a Bill Palmer-led group of American investors has withdrawn its interest. According to those in the know, Palmer has balked at the league's franchise fee, which is believed to be $5 million.

"It looks like it has died an unceremonious death," an insider said yesterday of Palmer's bid. "It is dead .... there is nothing ongoing."

Palmer, a former CFLer and father of QB Jesse Palmer, did not return a call by the Sun.

The past few months have not been kind to those hoping for the resurrection of the Renegades, in some form or another.


A bid by Golden Gate Capital Corp. was pulled back in October when main money man Ernest Anderson was diagnosed with intestinal cancer. Many viewed it as the most attractive option, too, as 67's owner Jeff Hunt had signed on to run the team in a partnership with the financial services company.

A few weeks later, the football franchise ownership desires of beverage entrepreneur Frank D'Angelo were essentially snubbed by the CFL, as the league stated it preferred to focus on negotiating with the Palmer group at that time. However, the door was not completely closed on D'Angelo either, and yesterday the colorful showman said he'd be interested in re-entering the picture -- if he was asked by the league.

"They didn't tell us to go jump in the lake," said

D'Angelo would bring pharmaceutical billionaire Barry Sherman into a football venture with him as a partner.

"But if girl doesn't want to date you, why bug her? I've got a big ego," he said. "If they call us, we will be more than happy to restart talks with the CFL," D'Angelo added. "And with the same energy and passion we started with."

It's believed that the league -- which was originally looking for a $3.5-million franchise fee -- has increased that because it is closing in an a new, lucrative TV deal.

Prospective buyers can argue that it's been decades (if ever) since a CFL team in Ottawa made a profit. They can legitimately question why they should pay millions to potentially lose millions.

D'Angelo makes no secret of his motives. As the president and CEO of Steelback Brewery, he sees an opportunity to "market his brand."

Molson had the same mindset in owning the Montreal Canadiens for years.

"I said it before and I'll say it now, there are not too many businessmen willing to lose money for five years ... but for us it makes sense," reasoned D'Angelo, who would be looking to secure Steelback pouring rights at Frank Clair Stadium -- as well as the city's assistance in some much-needed "cosmetic surgery" for the structure.

"The focal point would be to put together an incredible, phenomenal, stupendous, kick-ass football team," said D'Angelo. "If we didn't, it would affect our brand."

D'Angelo admits he has had "informal" discussions with Hunt. Is it possible that the groups could unite.

"He's a very bright guy, he has the same goals as we do," D'Angelo said of Hunt. "At the end of the day, the CFL has to be interested in us."

well that put a crap beating on the league. and they want a CFL franchise in Halifax PIIIIIIIIIIssssssfffffffffffffffffff

ottawa has 1 million people and cant make it halifax 385,000

With that there will be no after games tennant for commonDEBT stadium

and no need to talk legacy.

jim jones

well that put a crap beating on the league. and they want a CFL franchise in Halifax PIIIIIIIIIIssssssfffffffffffffffffff

ottawa has 1 million people and cant make it halifax 385,000

With that there will be no after games tennant for commonDEBT stadium

and no need to talk legacy.

jim jones

And Regina has right around 200,000 people. Yet the riders survive...

^^ You have to forgive jimbo jones. Anything to do with Halifax is bound to fail in his eyes. A real Mr Negativity.

Generally, the rule is the larger the city, the weaker the support for sports. There are so many other entertainment options, more cultural diversity, and less of a sense of community/civic mindedness in large urban centres.

This phenomenon is not simply a Canadian one. Compare the percentage of Torontonians or New Yorkers who live and breathe football compared to the percentage in Nebraska or Saskatchewan. These latter two rally around their respective football teams as a function of pride and belonging to a community. There are other issues, but a lack of alternatives is another deciding factor.

Another major factor working against sports like football in Toronto is that half the population are foreign born who have supplanted the domestic culture with their own. Because of their sheer numbers, they tend to supplant culture rather than adopt both cultures. A Torontonian from Portugal, for example, is more likely to be a soccer fan than a soccer and football fan.

The lack of interest from half the population has a negative effect on the level of interest with the rest of the population. This phenomenon is widespread, entrenched, and very hard to reverse.

Traditional Canadian sports like football, basketball, baseball, and hockey need to invest heavily in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal to maintain the place these quintessentially Canadian pursuits have in our society.

A continuation of the previous post: pro football needs to develop alot more interest in Toronto, and expand. It is ridiculous that a fair sized nation like Canada has just 9 pro football teams.

Australia with 60% our population has about 18 Australian Rules Football teams. That's about 1 for every 1 million Australians. By comparison, Canada should be able to support about 30 teams.

To model the CFL after what exists in the USA is a mistake. It would suggest just 3 or 4 teams in Canada. That is a non-starter. The USA is a different market with different realities.

London, England is 2 to 3 times the GTA's size (10-15 million versus roughly 5.3 million) but is home to 6 Premier League Soccer teams. By extension, the GTA should be able to support 2 to 3 pro football teams.

I would suggest investing 5 or 6 years laying the groundwork for a team in Mississauga. Toronto has a very deep divide between urban and suburban and which the of the two the population relates to. Creating a cross town rivalry would strengthen the ties between urban Torontonians with the Argonauts, while suburban GTA'ers could develop ties with a suburban team in Mississauga.

KW should definitely be considered at the same time. There are 470,000 people in KW. Another 130,000 literally 15 minutes east of there in Guelph. The KW-Guelph triangle is rich, prosperous, and growing quickly. Developing a team between these two would make sense. 600,000 would put it rougly the size of Hamilton and almost triple Regina.

Perhaps an inclusive name like Waterloo or simply Ontario would be a good name.

A continuation of the previous post: pro football needs to develop alot more interest in Toronto, and expand. It is ridiculous that a fair sized nation like Canada has just 9 pro football teams.

Australia with 60% our population has about 18 Australian Rules Football teams. That's about 1 for every 1 million Australians. By comparison, Canada should be able to support about 30 teams.

To model the CFL after what exists in the USA is a mistake. It would suggest just 3 or 4 teams in Canada. That is a non-starter. The USA is a different market with different realities.

London, England is 2 to 3 times the GTA's size (10-15 million versus roughly 5.3 million) but is home to 6 Premier League Soccer teams. By extension, the GTA should be able to support 2 to 3 pro football teams.

I feel some of the problem is that Canadians eat American culture up with a shovel and the obsession with the NFL is a part of that. It's the constant cultural struggle Canadians have with the USA that it so difficult to stay away from. Combine this with Canada's obsession with hockey and you've got yourself a problem in creating interest, financially or socially, in the CFL and other sport leagues.

Your comparison above shouldn't be with Canada's grass ball game compared to Oz's grass ball game and England's grass ball game. It should be compared to ice hockey, the sport of the land. England has several sport leagues like rugby and cricket but the size and economic investment with the Premiership can't be compared. Same goes with the AFL in Australia. NHL in Canada.

This is why there's always been a problem with a football/soccer league here, CFL issues, basketball failing, and baseball failing. Canada stretches itself too thin.

in Canada we should be able to see teams in
Victoria
Vacouver
soon Kelowna
Edmonton
Calgary
Regina
Saskatoon
Winnipeg
London
Mississauga
Toronto
Ottawa
HAMILTON
Montreal
Quebec City
Halifax

^ you forgot Hamilton lol

^ and you wonder why Hamilton is trying to make so many international bids for events lol. Perhaps Hamilton 2017 Expo bid will do the exposure.

woops , LOL , sorry . :)

No way Regina and Saskatoon could each have a team. The Riders are Saskatchewan's team, not Regina's. THe team depends on the whole province, there aren't enough of us to support two teams.

Saskatoon : 202,340 people
Regina : 179,246

I believe there could be teams in Both , Imagine the rivalry ...

Saskatoon : 202,340 people
Regina : 179,246

I believe there could be teams in Both , Imagine the rivalry ...

The fans aren't just from Regina. When my family lived in Saskatoon we used to drive to Regina for every game (season tickets)... and many others did the same since the highways were a hell of a lot busier when there was a rider game ;).

If Canada was isolated like Australia then the CFL would be huge and we would have many more franchises. As it stands the USA is right there, and our media not even the American media likes to throw the NFL and NCAA down our throats.

As soon as Canadians start to care about sports other then hockey, and lose their American shades we will see a healthier CFL. I doubt this day will ever come, as it is the young population you need to attract and the NFL/NCAA with its marketing and clothing line is a lot more appealing.

I dream of a 18 team CFL, but I know that dream will never happen. For my part I attend at least 8 games a year whether it be at Rogers Center or Ivor Wynn.

I've been a season ticket holder since I was 5, so I've been to my fair share of games over the years :D... +3 Grey Cups... '95 (in Regina), '97 (Riders lost in EDM :(... but sooo much fun), '03 (in Regina). I still have yet to attend a playoff game though :(... When oh when will my riders get that home playoff? :(

I'll tell yea, I love the NFL, but being a Canadian, I really do WANT to love the CFL. But it is hard because I can't really attend games that often due to my team, Toronto, being, well, in Toronto. If London got a team, I'd probably get season tickets dammit! I mean, we have the Knights (OHL), and our city loves them to hell and back, but if we could score a CFL team, oh man, that would be damn right awesome!

I have friends who obsess over hockey, though I managed to pull them into my house for the super bowl. The dug it. Though, I'm sure if a CFL team was here, it would be a lot easier to gain exposure to the brand with about a half-million people within the area.

in Canada we should be able to see teams in
Victoria
Vacouver
soon Kelowna
Edmonton
Calgary
Regina
Saskatoon
Winnipeg
London
Mississauga
Toronto
Ottawa
HAMILTON
Montreal
Quebec City
Halifax

Since this is a dream you could also add Windsor and Moncton to the list.

Here's the Commonweath Games stadium we missed out on::bash:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h140/halpic/CWPStands.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h140/halpic/CWPView.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h140/halpic/bridge.jpg

Actually, they're talking about reviving the bid. (http://herald.ca/Front/567651.html)

I don't know why it just can't work in Ottawa...bad ownership mostly.

Bad luck.

The CFL was at one point the benchmark throughout North America. It was the dominant league. Teams from Canada played exhibition games in the USA. Giving up on the potential of the CFL is a self fulfilling prophecy. The CFL can get back there, but needs professionals running it who have vision, patience, and ambition.

They turned Hamilton around. It's Toronto and Vancouver that need nurturing. I have lived in Toronto for 4 years, and can not bring myself to support the Argonauts. I have never lived in Hamilton, but find myself drawn to Ivor Wynne. I've tried wrapping my head around that one.

I believe it has alot to do with Toronto feeling so cold, no sense of community. The population is growing so fast, no one seems connected to the idea of 'Toronto' the same way people feel attached to say Calgary or Montreal.

They turned Hamilton around. It's Toronto and Vancouver that need nurturing. I have lived in Toronto for 4 years, and can not bring myself to support the Argonauts. I have never lived in Hamilton, but find myself drawn to Ivor Wynne. I've tried wrapping my head around that one.

It's all because of the new owner, Bob Young. He's jamming a lot of events during the game at Ivor Wynne so the game becomes entertaining. For example Canadian warplane heritage flies over with different airplanes. During halftime Molson will be throwing a concert each game. The sponsors usually give away free stuff during the game as well, like a free t shirt. Because of this literally every game is sold out at Ivor Wynne even though the Ticats are one of the worst team in the league.

Yesterday Bob Young announced they'll hold their first annual Tiger-Cats Kick-Off Bash at Hamilton Place. So you can tell Young is giving us a reason to attend these games at Ivor Wynne.

I've heard alot about Bob Young and his accomplishments in Steeltown. The free concerts and other promotions are great, but would people go without them? There must be interest in the Tiger-Cats also or people wouldn't go.

I've never been to a Tiger-Cat game in Hamilton, so how does it explain my allegiance to Hamilton football teams? (I go to see MAC) I think Hamilton has very strong civic ties. People feel alot more connected to the idea of 'Hamilton' and any team that represents them, than Torontonians do with their city. Toronto teams seem so alien to me...in reaction to finding Toronto very alienating, I suppose.

When you say Hamilton, immediate images come to mind: Steel town. Hamilton has a very clear and strong industrial image that Hamiltonians can relate to. It translates into support for certain products that attest to represent them.

You say Toronto, and you have to pause first before the answers come. It is this detachment that makes it a tough go for the Argonauts. Torontonians do not see themselves when they see Toronto. By extension, they do not feel attachment to a team that attests to represent them. The Leafs are an exception to that.

If the Riders are Saskatchewan's team, they might consider playing home games in both Regina and the larger city, Saskatoon. I'd one day like to see one team in each. A Regina - Saskatoon rivalry could be fantastic and great for pro football.

I realize the small population base, but if the University of Nebraska in Lincoln can get 80,000 people to Cornhuskers games, Saskatchewan can support 2 teams drawing 25,000 each.

Lincoln has 230,000 people, about the same as Saskatoon.
Nebraska has about 1,700,000 to Saskatchewan's 1,000,000
That means 5% of the entire state show up to support the Huskers. A similar level of support in Saskatchewan would translate to 50,000 or 25,000 for each team.

If there is going to be an expansion, there should be an even number of teams to be added, so that there would not be complications with league re formating..

Agreed!!

First round: Halifax and Quebec, move Winnipeg back to the West where they should be. This would make for 5 in the East, 5 in the West.

Saskatchewan should start playing a few home games a year in Saskatoon at U of S. Add temporary bleachers. This should be done with the eventual goal of 2 teams in that province, and a rivalry.

Second round: Ottawa and Victoria for 6 teams in the East, 6 teams in the West.

Third round: K-W and Saskatoon for 7 teams in the East, 7 teams in the West.

Fourth round: Mississauga and Kelowna for 8 teams in the East, 8 teams in the West. I admit that a huge amount of groundwork is needed in the GTA market, but a natural attachment already exists between residents of Mississauga and Mississauga. A team here would could also spawn a good cross town rivalry: urban vs. suburban

Pro football needs to sow the seeds in these cities as future franchise cities. An 8 team league is too small. Demographically, these cities are the best options.

Kelowna and Victoria I can see in the future, but Saskatoon? I don't think Rider Nation will ever want to split up. Same goes for Ottawa, Quebec and Halifax in the east, but I don't know about Mississauga.

Agreed!!

First round: Halifax and Quebec, move Winnipeg back to the West where they should be. This would make for 5 in the East, 5 in the West.

Saskatchewan should start playing a few home games a year in Saskatoon at U of S. Add temporary bleachers. This should be done with the eventual goal of 2 teams in that province, and a rivalry.

Second round: Ottawa and Victoria for 6 teams in the East, 6 teams in the West.

Third round: K-W and Saskatoon for 7 teams in the East, 7 teams in the West.

Fourth round: Mississauga and Kelowna for 8 teams in the East, 8 teams in the West. I admit that a huge amount of groundwork is needed in the GTA market, but a natural attachment already exists between residents of Mississauga and Mississauga. A team here would could also spawn a good cross town rivalry: urban vs. suburban

Pro football needs to sow the seeds in these cities as future franchise cities. An 8 team league is too small. Demographically, these cities are the best options.

Scratch Mistersauga and K-W, and put in London and Windsor.

Scratch Mistersauga and K-W, and put in London and Windsor.

Actually keep Waterloo Region. I have no problem adding London and Windsor as well though.

If the Riders are Saskatchewan's team, they might consider playing home games in both Regina and the larger city, Saskatoon. I'd one day like to see one team in each. A Regina - Saskatoon rivalry could be fantastic and great for pro football.

I realize the small population base, but if the University of Nebraska in Lincoln can get 80,000 people to Cornhuskers games, Saskatchewan can support 2 teams drawing 25,000 each.

Lincoln has 230,000 people, about the same as Saskatoon.
Nebraska has about 1,700,000 to Saskatchewan's 1,000,000
That means 5% of the entire state show up to support the Huskers. A similar level of support in Saskatchewan would translate to 50,000 or 25,000 for each team.

Sorry, but that's just not going to happen.

First of all, Saskatoon is only slightly larger. It doesn't have a city of Moose Jaw, population 40,000, a stones throw away. Not to mention you look at the population distribution of Saskatchewan and its obvious that the majority live closer to Regina than Saskatoon. Southern Saskatchewan has Moose Jaw, Swift Current, Yorkton, Estevan, etc. Northern Sask has Prince Albert and the Battlefords.

This is a provincial team, and trying to split up the fan base would be asinine. Do you actually think the Riders would want to bring another team to Saskatchewan? Can you see the Leafs playing in Hamilton to try and market an NHL team there? What sense does it make from their point of view? All it means for them is a smaller fanbase and less money.

Griffiths Stadium is not a CFL venue. I can't even begin to imagine the costs of setting up temporary facilities there either.

Not going to happen unless Saskatoon grows to 500,000 over night. Even then Saskatoon shows minimal support to the Riders in comparison to Regina.

With this logic 5% of Toronto's population is what 250 000? Instead of 25 000 that they now draw.

Sorry, but that's just not going to happen.

First of all, Saskatoon is only slightly larger. It doesn't have a city of Moose Jaw, population 40,000, a stones throw away. Not to mention you look at the population distribution of Saskatchewan and its obvious that the majority live closer to Regina than Saskatoon. Southern Saskatchewan has Moose Jaw, Swift Current, Yorkton, Estevan, etc. Northern Sask has Prince Albert and the Battlefords.

This is a provincial team, and trying to split up the fan base would be asinine. Do you actually think the Riders would want to bring another team to Saskatchewan? Can you see the Leafs playing in Hamilton to try and market an NHL team there? What sense does it make from their point of view? All it means for them is a smaller fanbase and less money.

Griffiths Stadium is not a CFL venue. I can't even begin to imagine the costs of setting up temporary facilities there either.

Not going to happen unless Saskatoon grows to 500,000 over night. Even then Saskatoon shows minimal support to the Riders in comparison to Regina.


It's not that Saskatoon shows minimal support compared to Regina it is all about location! Had the team started in Saskatoon how many REGINA fans would show support?

Regina SHOULD show the most support for the team they have the team based there. If Saskatoon had their own team they would draw crowds as big or bigger if the facility could handle it.

Ture enough, but from my time living in Saskatoon it just didn't seem like many people cared much for the Riders. Hypothetically, I'm not sure if that would change over night if the team was moved to Saskatoon.

Ture enough, but from my time living in Saskatoon it just didn't seem like many people cared much for the Riders. Hypothetically, I'm not sure if that would change over night if the team was moved to Saskatoon.

I lived over 3 hrs from Regina up until last year and I made the trek to Rider games on average 5-6 times a year. Just because I went to the games it doesn't mean I care more than someone who doesn't go. It just means I had the means to go. Remember any game on a Friday night in Regina requires someone from the Northern part of the province to leave early from work or book a day off. Likewise with Sunday afternoon or evening games. Many times I have arrived home after a Sunday game at midnight or later and have had to get up at 5 am for work.

To be honest most people in Regina seem not to care about the Riders. If not why are the games not sold out?

I'm not judging their support from their attendance. I'm just saying from my years in Saskatoon, I noticed minimal support. People didn't really seem to talk about the Riders, never really saw people wearing Rider hats, etc.

With this logic 5% of Toronto's population is what 250 000? Instead of 25 000 that they now draw.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Cities the size of Toronto will never approach the percentage fan support of small cities because there are massively more entertainment options.

Comparing fan support in similarly sized cities with many other similar characteristics is a fair comparison. Nebraska and Saskatchewan are fair comparisons. Your extrapolation to suggest that I think Toronto, by extension, could attract 250,000 fans, is illogical.

CCF:

A team in Regina and one in Saskatoon may not work, but what is asinine is to dismiss it without studying the potential in the future. Of course, the Roughriders don't want to split their fan base and potential revenue, but individual franchises must always take a back seat to the expansion of pro football in Canada and adding teams.

A team in Regina and one in Saskatoon may not work, but what is asinine is to dismiss it without studying the potential in the future. Of course, the Roughriders don't want to split their fan base and potential revenue, but individual franchises must always take a back seat to the expansion of pro football in Canada and adding teams.

If individual franchises are always given the backseat to expansion, then you could possibly run into the trouble of making the league once again very unstable. It's starting to stabilize again now... support is growing... but if you keep splitting support everywhere, then you risk the chance of many teams running decifits, which could ultimately destroy the league. You have to balance the well-being of the franchises and the desire to spread the league/make it grow.

Agree with all of those points. There are numerous considerations. I should restate that franchises should sometimes take a backseat.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Cities the size of Toronto will never approach the percentage fan support of small cities because there are massively more entertainment options.

Comparing fan support in similarly sized cities with many other similar characteristics is a fair comparison. Nebraska and Saskatchewan are fair comparisons. Your extrapolation to suggest that I think Toronto, by extension, could attract 250,000 fans, is illogical.

CCF:

A team in Regina and one in Saskatoon may not work, but what is asinine is to dismiss it without studying the potential in the future. Of course, the Roughriders don't want to split their fan base and potential revenue, but individual franchises must always take a back seat to the expansion of pro football in Canada and adding teams.

I may be stretching things a bit but there should be no reason Toronto can't support its team. Saying there are more entertainment options is not part of the equation. Football is a pro sport!

Toronto should support its team, but Torontonians are awful sports fans. They aren't even good hockey fans....Leafs fans is more accurate. They support the Leafs and that's about it.

Torontonians are more interested in the packaging than the sport. If it is deemed cool, trendy, or flashy they will turn up in droves. These aren't people who actually love sports, they love a spectacle.

Unfortunately, not only do the Argonauts suffer because of it, but all of pro-football.

That is the sad thing about Toronto. Many seem to want the glitz and glam but don't really care for substance.

Couldn't agree more

Hey guys when I was a kid I used to watch the CFL all the time on ESPN. That was when ESPN was first getting started and I guess trying to fill up programming space. I really miss watching the CFL games. I thought it was a great fast paced game once I understood the rules.

I don't guess there is a chance of a US city getting a CFL team since we have the NFL here. But I sure wished that ESPN would still broadcast some of those games. The team I watch the most was Toronto.

I miss that crazy Australian Football as well.

I know I am not Canadian but I voted for Halifax. Looks like I voted for the overwhelming favorite. The CFL definately needs an even number of teams.

Nice to know that you appreciate our game. I wish more Canadians weren't so blind as to what they have. Alot of people in this country get all glossy eyed when they look at the glitz of American sport. I'm not here to take anything away from US football. It's the classic 'the grass is greener on the other side of the fence' syndrome. I hope their neglect doesn't result in pro football in Canada going the way of the NHL where Canada becomes an after thought. That would be sad, since it's a fantastic game.

I don't see a US city getting a CFL franchise. The expansion was a misguided failure. The CFL's future lies in television revenue just like the NFL's, not expansion to the USA. The NFL surpassed the CFL due to the massive US television contracts it was able to sign. Canada is a small market, and must therefore try to close the revenue gap by selling TV rights in foreign countries all over the world. This is slowly happening, but will take time.

The CFL also needs more than 8 teams. 6 in the East, and 6 in the West would be a more sustainable level. Victoria in the West. Halifax, Quebec City, and Ottawa in the East. This must be the goal.

Toronto should support its team, but Torontonians are awful sports fans. They aren't even good hockey fans....Leafs fans is more accurate. They support the Leafs and that's about it.

Torontonians are more interested in the packaging than the sport. If it is deemed cool, trendy, or flashy they will turn up in droves. These aren't people who actually love sports, they love a spectacle.

Unfortunately, not only do the Argonauts suffer because of it, but all of pro-football.

I completely disagree...

The Raptors are a success... the Jays are a success... we've added the FC too... Toronto is an excellent sports market. If anything, the fact that the Argonoauts still exist is a testament to how varied and tolerant the Toronto sports market is. The CFL doesn't get the same attention as other Canadian cities because there's more happening here.

And there's nothing spectacular or flashy about the Leafs, and considering their 40 year losing streak, fans certainly don't suffer from any attention deficit disorder.

Algonquin:

I agree with you up to a point. The Raptors and Jays are successes, but in a metropolitan region of 6 million people, they should be. You will always be able to find 20,000 people in a market that large.

Toronto is an excellent sports market because of its sheer size, it is not, however, a city with good sports fans. Those fans that do go to basketball or soccer are fantastic fans, but they are definitely not indicative of the population at large.

Go to Melbourne, London, or Madrid. Torontonians pale in comparison. Madrid gets 100,000 to soccer, Melbourne 120,000 to cricket and monster support for many other sports. London alone has 6 Premiership soccer teams. Add on cricket, rugby, etc. The citizens of sport loving cities live and breathe their sports teams and athletes. This phenomenon only exists amongst Leafs fans in Toronto.

Your last sentence makes my point for me. Torontonians are good Leafs fans, but that's about it.

Is this thread about expansion or what?

Algonquin:

I agree with you up to a point. The Raptors and Jays are successes, but in a metropolitan region of 6 million people, they should be. You will always be able to find 20,000 people in a market that large.

Toronto is an excellent sports market because of its sheer size, it is not, however, a city with good sports fans. Those fans that do go to basketball or soccer are fantastic fans, but they are definitely not indicative of the population at large.

Go to Melbourne, London, or Madrid. Torontonians pale in comparison. Madrid gets 100,000 to soccer, Melbourne 120,000 to cricket and monster support for many other sports. London alone has 6 Premiership soccer teams. Add on cricket, rugby, etc. The citizens of sport loving cities live and breathe their sports teams and athletes. This phenomenon only exists amongst Leafs fans in Toronto.

Your last sentence makes my point for me. Torontonians are good Leafs fans, but that's about it.

the MCG in Melbourne has a capacity of 100 000 after the recent renovations. It is true they get huge crowds for cricket but it is no where near sellouts for every match.

The Aussie footy does well in Melbourne but for regular season games the MCG is usually half full or a little better.