one major mistake in ur comparison with buses plying cochin - b'lore. they carry a whole lot of cargo also which makes a huge difference in their revenue earnings, so they can afford not hvng enough passengers on board

Can you point out which luxury buses carry freight cargo on its belly, when ferrying passengers? Please be sensible!!!!

Can you point out which luxury buses carry freight cargo on its belly, when ferrying passengers? Please be sensible!!!!

dear irshad, seems u dont travel by bus a lot in that route. not just on the belly, even on the top, they carry a lot of cargo

dear irshad, seems u dont travel by bus a lot in that route. not just on the belly, even on the top, they carry a lot of cargo

I have constantly travelled in popular buses like Kallada, Shama, KSRTC-Karnataka etc... Never seen any vegetables or general cargo in its belly... Its mostly passenger's luggage etc being transported....... I have never seen luxury buses with cargo on top of it:lol::lol::lol:

Even so, its so minor, comparing to the distance and frequency of services..... I never seen any buses with less than half percent occupancy rates, being ply in this route.....

I think sujith refered bangalore kerala semi-sleeper and sleeper services which carry a ton of load on them. From kallada travels those people told the from the freight they earn around 18k and passengers 6k on average.But of course these buses do not fall into luxury class. Volvos may or maynot carry freight that too at little extent. But most of these freights are light, like parcels, flowers etc.

But the point here is that if bus doesnt carry a freight doesn't mean it is not profitable. Frieghts in these buses are extra income. On lean days they have less service.

I too don't believe airports in every districts/backyard.... But there should be some viable fast transporting options, that match with growth of our country and our state.....

There is one unique quality of Malayalees..... Everyone wants Dubai like development. No one wants development to usrp their piece of land, but can happen in neighbours land... But every development has to happen in one's backyard. At the same time, every Malayalee wants the nostalgic Village and simpleton lifestyle......

So there is utmost confusion of ideas..... There is intense opposition even for NH development, so Expressway is not an option...... Railways is not something that any state can control and by the time they develop something needed for today, India will be at 2100 AD..... Waterways is ideal for us, but never matches with faster time we want to reach places..... Airways is okay, but what about larger fields and area to be acquired?

So in your opinion, what are the options faster transportation? Remember, Transportation is the blood-lines for an economy's growth.... We are struck ages back in reality, with mental ideas fast forward..... This is where we require a treatment.....

As I said, the issue of HSR won't appear at first instance, if Railways was doing its duty properly...... The concept of faster transport won't arise, if NH development and subsequent road development happens like other states......

So need to think, the alternatives too....... Please define your Thala thiriyatha Vikasanam definition......

ok, first of all, its 'thala THIRINJA vikasanam' which means not knowing ur priorities/ going after the WANTS, instead of the NEEDS etc

for example, constructing airports in aranmula, idukky, wayanad etc. why do v need so many airfields in a small state like ours? isnt the existing ones good enough?

why do v need a vizhinjam container transhipment terminal just ard 200 kms away from vallarpadam? now dont give me examples of how ports in UAE are still gowing strong as its not a comparison at all.

my suggestion for faster transportation will be to build a 6 lane or more access controlled elevated highway which will not cost anything as this HSR. it will give a much needed boost to transport goods as well.

i hv no issues with this HSR if its done by the Central govt or IR without any financial commitment from the Govt of Kerala or its ppl.

i believe kallada, shama etc also falls under luxury buses and they defenitely carry cargo on them, both in their 'belly' and on top

btw, 'cargo' doesnt necessarily mean vegetables as ppj has pointed out.

del

dear ppj, i believe even the volvo/ merc buses carry cargo other than those of passengers on board as i hv seen it many times while traveling chennai/ kochi many times

anything which is not the 'baggage' of passengers on board is considered cargo, isnt it?

and i believe kallada, shama etc use volvo as well. if thats not considered as a luxury bus in india, then what else is?

well, anyway, v r way off topic now

Well, there is this little thing called inflation. What costed Rs 100 in 1991 would cost Rs 300 in 2009. That way, the ticket cost to Bangalore haven't changed much.

Let me ask a few of my own questions.

1. What would be the demographics of the users of this service? ie, who will use it, for what purpose?
- Commute?
- Business travel?
- Tourism?
- Personal travel?

2. Who can afford the Rs 1000-1500 (in todays rupees) ticket? The cost is also in todays rupees, which is going to inflate. So, there is no point in arguing about value of rupee.

Most of the other states are also looking @ HSR option..As usual we started the discussions and planning much before others and this will not come out of paper due to typical malayali attitude of crticizing anything and everything . Other States will implement it എന്നിട് നമ്മള്* അവുരുടെ HSR കണ്ടു വാ പൊളിച്ചു ഇരിക്കും ....ഇപ്പൊ കേരളത്തിന്* പുറത്തുള്ള NH കണ്ടു കണ്ണ് തള്ളി ഇരുക്കുനത് പോലെ.:bash:

Let me ask a few of my own questions.

1. What would be the demographics of the users of this service? ie, who will use it, for what purpose?
- Commute?
- Business travel?
- Tourism?
- Personal travel? .

It would be more of business, tourism and personal. Don't think of the second class season ticket holders, esp sarkari job walahs.

From my perspective, I would say that presently the options for travel between Trivandrum and Ernakulam is not that great. I used to travel in the TVC-ERS section when I was in Kerala (prior to 2008)for visiting our branch office in Kochi. Jan Shatabdi is the only convenient connection in the morning, with about two A/c chair car coaches. Even that time it was difficult to get seats, esp for last minute journeys. I am not sure how bad the situation is after the JS is extended to Calicut. If not JS, then we had to depend on long distance trains, getting in to the A/c compartments with a non reserved ticket, giving a sorry figure to the TTE to accommodate us in the vacant seats

Having faster connections, better facilities are always desired. And I feel it will create a need once the facility is there. If you can reach kochi in 45 minutes, more people will travel. Also it will help tourism also. As of now Trivandrum/Kovalam and Kochi have the highest number of foreign tourist arrivals. If faster & comfortable connections are available, more tourists would be using it.

2. Who can afford the Rs 1000-1500 (in todays rupees) ticket?

There are many executives who move around in Taxis. My friend is an Area Manager in Hindustan Uni Lever who travels across Kerala using Taxi, daily. I think if faster and comfortable connections are there most will switch to trains and use taxi only for local movement. Rs.1000-1500 would be lower than the taxi fares.

I don’t find any issue in spending Rs.1000-1500 if I can save time & can have a world class experience. Apart from the time, it is the third world conditions of our train travel which puts me off.

Of course, we should also think of ‘feasibility’ also. But I think we should look forward also. And as I said, I strongly feel ‘DEMAND’ can be self created also, it cannot be measured alone by present conditions. If there is an option for travel, demand will follow.

Most of the other states are also looking @ HSR option..As usual we started the discussions and planning much before others and this will not come out of paper due to typical malayali attitude of crticizing anything and everything . Other States will implement it എന്നിട് നമ്മള്* അവുരുടെ HSR കണ്ടു വാ പൊളിച്ചു ഇരിക്കും ....ഇപ്പൊ കേരളത്തിന്* പുറത്തുള്ള NH കണ്ടു കണ്ണ് തള്ളി ഇരുക്കുനത് പോലെ.:bash:

+1000

Originally Posted by sudheeshnairs
Of course, we should also think of ‘feasibility’ also. But I think we should look forward also. And as I said, I strongly feel ‘DEMAND’ can be self created also, it cannot be measured alone by present conditions. If there is an option for travel, demand will follow.

+1

It would be more of business, tourism and personal. Don't think of the second class season ticket holders, esp sarkari job walahs.

From my perspective, I would say that presently the options for travel between Trivandrum and Ernakulam is not that great. I used to travel in the TVC-ERS section when I was in Kerala (prior to 2008)for visiting our branch office in Kochi. Jan Shatabdi is the only convenient connection in the morning, with about two A/c chair car coaches. Even that time it was difficult to get seats, esp for last minute journeys. I am not sure how bad the situation is after the JS is extended to Calicut. If not JS, then we had to depend on long distance trains, getting in to the A/c compartments with a non reserved ticket, giving a sorry figure to the TTE to accommodate us in the vacant seats

Having faster connections, better facilities are always desired. And I feel it will create a need once the facility is there. If you can reach kochi in 45 minutes, more people will travel. Also it will help tourism also. As of now Trivandrum/Kovalam and Kochi have the highest number of foreign tourist arrivals. If faster & comfortable connections are available, more tourists would be using it.



There are many executives who move around in Taxis. My friend is an Area Manager in Hindustan Uni Lever who travels across Kerala using Taxi, daily. I think if faster and comfortable connections are there most will switch to trains and use taxi only for local movement. Rs.1000-1500 would be lower than the taxi fares.

I don’t find any issue in spending Rs.1000-1500 if I can save time & can have a world class experience. Apart from the time, it is the third world conditions of our train travel which puts me off.

Of course, we should also think of ‘feasibility’ also. But I think we should look forward also. And as I said, I strongly feel ‘DEMAND’ can be self created also, it cannot be measured alone by present conditions. If there is an option for travel, demand will follow.

+10000:cheers::cheers:

I fully join with Sudheeshbhai.... Often services create demand and its a cycle..... As said, in 1990s, there was just 3 to 5 services between Delhi and Mumbai whereas now its World's 7th busiest route with more than 150 services per day.

More aircrafts, more marketing induced more air-movements, which inturn created more economic development which inturn increased more further travel..... This is a cycle and exactly what I feel HSR is also going to generate.....

I have 30 years experiane in transportation design.
Let me tell you this HSR is only a dream it never will happen any time soon
just wasting money on studies etc.
let me tell you my experiance with HSR (acela express) in USA
i have to travel to philadelphia office form my home office in Metropark NJ
which about 160 KM. one way ticket to philadelphia was $115
takes about one hour to travel between philadelphia and metropark. from my home to train station about 16km, takes me about 45 minutes (driving through city roads)
including finding a parking space in the station. from philidelphia station
i have to take a local train (metrorail) to office + some walking takes 35 minutes. so my total commute was about 2 hour 20 minutes each way
(this is only possible if i reach the station on time. If i missed the train add another hour to it) from the following week i started driving to philly
it took about 1 hour 40 minutes each way. offcourse i used the New Jersey Turnpike, one of the bussiest roads in USA (up to 14 lanes)
the total cost for driving to philly is about a third of taking the HSR
and saved 40 minutes.
HSR in USA is using the existing infrastructure. trains are almost full
and loosing money and also subsidised by the Federal Government

(1.5% interest loan from Japan is to be paid in Yen not in Rupee)
so actual rate will be different

Just build that Express Way, then we can dream about HSR.

(trucks can also travel on Expressway)

there is proverb in malayalam "do not extend your legs before sitting"

Only a suggestion, use some gold from the temple to build the expressway
and call it "Sree Padbanaba Expressway"
I am sure Sree Padbanaba will love it.

I don’t find any issue in spending Rs.1000-1500 if I can save time & can have a world class experience. Apart from the time, it is the third world conditions of our train travel which puts me off.

:cheers::cheers:

there is proverb in malayalam "do not extend your legs before sitting"

that proverb is suitable only in 19th century. If we follow that today.....this will happens........:)

Most of the other states are also looking @ HSR option..As usual we started the discussions and planning much before others and this will not come out of paper due to typical malayali attitude of crticizing anything and everything . Other States will implement it എന്നിട് നമ്മള്* അവുരുടെ HSR കണ്ടു വാ പൊളിച്ചു ഇരിക്കും ....ഇപ്പൊ കേരളത്തിന്* പുറത്തുള്ള NH കണ്ടു കണ്ണ് തള്ളി ഇരുക്കുനത് പോലെ.:bash:

I have 30 years experiane in transportation design.
Let me tell you this HSR is only a dream it never will happen any time soon
just wasting money on studies etc.
let me tell you my experiance with HSR (acela express) in USA
i have to travel to philadelphia office form my home office in Metropark NJ
which about 160 KM. one way ticket to philadelphia was $115
takes about one hour to travel between philadelphia and metropark. from my home to train station about 16km, takes me about 45 minutes (driving through city roads)
including finding a parking space in the station. from philidelphia station
i have to take a local train (metrorail) to office + some walking takes 35 minutes. so my total commute was about 2 hour 20 minutes each way
(this is only possible if i reach the station on time. If i missed the train add another hour to it) from the following week i started driving to philly
it took about 1 hour 40 minutes each way. offcourse i used the New Jersey Turnpike, one of the bussiest roads in USA (up to 14 lanes)
the total cost for driving to philly is about a third of taking the HSR
and saved 40 minutes.
HSR in USA is using the existing infrastructure. trains are almost full
and loosing money and also subsidised by the Federal Government

(1.5% interest loan from Japan is to be paid in Yen not in Rupee)
so actual rate will be different

Just build that Express Way, then we can dream about HSR.

(trucks can also travel on Expressway)

there is proverb in malayalam "do not extend your legs before sitting"

Only a suggestion, use some gold from the temple to build the expressway
and call it "Sree Padbanaba Expressway"
I am sure Sree Padbanaba will love it.

Well Mr. Bridge,

You are saying the roads/expressway better than HSR..... Definitely!!! I too say, if you have a 10 lane or 14 lane expressway, its the real solution for all traffic woes of the state, atleast for next 50 years..... There is no need of any other option to be considered

But the question is, we are still discussing whether 30 M is enough for a 4 lane highway or 45M, even considering the next 20 to 30 year growth... We find miserable even to acquire 45m, how come we can think of a 10 lane expressway (I consider it could be somewhat around 90 M width of land to be acquired)?

The HSR is not the only option. We have water transport, we have helicopters, we can have much more like this. But will it really address our priority for a faster and efficient transportation? HSR was mooted, just because it requires just 20 M and being full elevated, it doesn't create controversies of dividing etc......

So, we are forced with this option.... Anyways, we have to have atleast ONE MODE OF FAST TRANSPORTATION. Expressway or HSR or Airways... The choice is for public..... In all probable ways, HSR gets more public pat, because of less land to be acquired and faster means!!!!

------

Well, in a democratic country like ours, its not possible to take wealth of a temple to finance a road/railway line, which was definitely possible in Royal days, especially if the Monarch is a Hindu King and controls temples.... Kerala has a history where temple, churches and mosques contributing their wealth for public rail/road services, which may not be possible in a society driven by religious equations and egoism.... Read here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=88600025&postcount=84) if you wish to know, how railway lines being funded by temples/churches without any hungama, which is not possible today at all

Those who are saying HSR is not viable - will be lose Making white elephant ... seems to be ppl who are not adventures.... Nobody in the world will build any mega structures like that without any foresight.

It's just a up-gradation, when KSRTC ( Karnataka...) /Bangalore started using Volvo Buses,

Most ppl changed from Rajahamsa executive to Airavat Volvo bus. There after ppl started moving into Multiaxle Buses (Airavat). Indians are rich but they remove money from their pockets unless until quality services are provided.

The same success story is now followed across many Cities in India.

Kerala and TN the Ticket fares are very less when compared to other cities, which is part of the electoral process to get Votes. By seeing that, don't come to a conclusion that their won't be Passenger to HSR.

Once it is started, see all Flight passengers will move over to HSR. which is more convenient to commute. Using Laptop's while travelling..... etc.

In case of Air travel - First we need to go by Taxi to Airport 1.5 Hours to reach airport another 0.5 Hr to get formalities in Airport. The same time once you reach the other side of your destination. Totally around 3-4 hours is wasted. The same which can be used to reach from Tiruvanthapuram to Mumbai in HSR ( Minus actually Time spent in travelling in Air).

500-600 Taxi fare both side + Air Ticket. That's at today's price. By 2020 it might be
3000 - Taxi fare + Air ticket..

So as per conversations 1500 to 2000 Ticket for HSR ( Tiruvanthapuram to Mumbai) seems to be most cheap way to travel in an High/world Class facility.

Those who are opposing the HSR might be getting some % from Domestic Flight operators ( Kingfisher,Spicejet,Deccan aviation....)

Once it is started, see all Flight passengers will move over to HSR. which is more convenient to commute. Using Laptop's while travelling..... etc.

In case of Air travel - First we need to go by Taxi to Airport 1.5 Hours to reach airport another 0.5 Hr to get formalities in Airport. The same time once you reach the other side of your destination. Totally around 3-4 hours is wasted. The same which can be used to reach from Tiruvanthapuram to Mumbai in HSR ( Minus actually Time spent in travelling in Air).

500-600 Taxi fare both side + Air Ticket. That's at today's price. By 2020 it might be
3000 - Taxi fare + Air ticket..

So as per conversations 1500 to 2000 Ticket for HSR ( Tiruvanthapuram to Mumbai) seems to be most cheap way to travel in an High/world Class facility.



You have some valid points here but you are missing one important fact. The HSR is not connecting indian cities, it is connecting cities within Kerala. That is my issue. If it is connecting all the major indian cities I am all for it . Let them connect all the major indian cities by HSR and let the local connectivity be Metros, monorails or whatever.
There are not enough people in Kerala who will be using this facility on daily basis to make this project financially viable. We all know that there are people in kerala who can easily afford the ticket rates but tell me why should they travel from one economic center to the next on a daily basis say from TRV to COK or COK to CCJ for doing business.
AFAIK the local economies of these cities are not inter dependent. The State government cannot go by the "If we build it they will come " philosophy.

^^ - Trivandrum-Mumbai HSR? Why not Trivandrum-Dufai then?!!!

Some of the claims in the course of this discussion bordered on the ludicrous but now we have really stepped off the edge! :lol:

that proverb is suitable only in 19th century. If we follow that today.....this will happens........:)

Well Damukannappan

when most people don't have clean drinking water.
Streets like the MG road in Kochi don't have a decent sidewalk.

needs to build basic infrastructure like clean drinking water, sidewalks, drainage, grbage disposal, and 4 lane expressways before getting into HSR. (not 14 lane express ways)
(don't brake your back)
we can talk about 700 km HSR on bridge all day, believe me it not going to happen. we are there not yet

^^ - Trivandrum-Mumbai HSR? Why not Trivandrum-Dufai then?!!!
:lol:

With a stop at Karachi. we can have some great food. :)

You have some valid points here but you are missing one important fact.

AFAIK the local economies of these cities are not inter dependent. The State government cannot go by the "If we build it they will come " philosophy.

I don't believe, none of the cities in Kerala have developed a completely independent local economies, unlike Delhi or Mumbai. All cities of Kerala, still requires close support of other cities, be it finance, human resource, technology, logistics, supporting/social factors etc...... Thats why we don't one One Metro in the state, rather almost equal and similar sized cities with a continuous urban and semi-urban habitat.

3 or 4 airports are okay, but will not definitely provide faster inter-city/town connectivity. For example, even with a 4 lane that matches Kerala specific 45M width, semi access controlled NH 544 from Cochin Airport to Thrissur, takes more than hour, just to cover 60 Kms... During peak times it goes more higher... An HSR automatically reduces to 15 minutes..... I hope you understand the difference

Folks like Sujith, Rajesh and Bridge, among others, have made some very valid points. Here are a few more thoughts:

A) The comparison to the Trivandrum-Bangalore Volvo services don't hold any water because the riders between two of South India's IT hubs, not inter-city commuters as in the Kerala context. An HSR fare between Trivandrum and Bangalore will work out to upwards of Rs 2500 each way. Moreover, the capital costs for buses and the HSR are not even remotely comparable, you could buy 70,000 Volvo buses for the cost of the Trivandrum-Ernakulam HSR stretch!

B) The build-it-and-they-will-come philosophy is a great recipe for financial disaster in most cases. Dubai, which someone mentioned is the common Malayaali's aspiration city, is the best case in point. The HSR may stimulate some additional trip generation due to its speed but that will still be within the demographic and market profiles that we spoke about. Just because there's a fast, albeit more expensive, means of transport doesn't mean that Sudheesh or I will travel more than we need to. Unlike mass transit which fundamentally modifies work-live location choices, HSR will not.

C) Let's do a quick thought exercise and list a few things that Kerala urgently needs:

Vizhinjam deep water port - Rs 8000 Crores
2000 MW LNG power plant at Vizhinjam - Rs 10,000 Crores
Kannur International Airport - Rs 1500 Crores
Trivandrum MRTS - Rs 6500 Crores
Ernakulam MRTS - Rs 5000 Crores
Calicut MRTS - Rs 2700 Crores
6-laning NH-66 from Cherthala to Trivandrum - Rs 5000 Crores
6-laning of NH-66 from Ernakulam to Kasargode - Rs 5000 Crores
2 new railway lines from Trivandrum to Kasargode - Rs 10,000 Crores
Development of Azhikkal and Beypore ports - Rs 1000
Sewage systems in Ernakulam and Calicut - Rs 1000 Crores
Expansion of Sewage system in Trivandrum - Rs 500 Crores
Drinking water schemes in all district HQs - Rs 3000 Crores
Urban infrastructure in the top 8 cities - Rs 5000 Crores
Acquisition of 2000 LF AC buses for cities - Rs 1200 Crores
Tertiary care hospital at each district HQ - Rs 3000 Crores
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grand Total - Rs 59,400 Crores

Even after accounting for transportation infrastructure, power, urban development and healthcare, we still have enough money left over from the Trivandrum-Kasargode HSR budget to buy 40 Airbus A-380s to start Kerala International Airlines! :lol:

And we still want to spend all this money on ONE project which will not solve any of the urgent issues addressed in the list above?

With a stop at Karachi. we can have some great food. :)

I am sure our brethren in Pakistan and Afghanistan will appreciate the business! :lol:

Well Damukannappan

when most people don't have clean drinking water.
Streets like the MG road in Kochi don't have a decent sidewalk.

needs to build basic infrastructure like clean drinking water, sidewalks, drainage, grbage disposal, and 4 lane expressways before getting into HSR. (not 14 lane express ways)
(don't brake your back)
we can talk about 700 km HSR on bridge all day, believe me it not going to happen. we are there not yet

+100000. The money can be utilized for improving infra instead of this unnecessary white elephant which would deliver the coup de grace to the already ailing Kerala economy

Folks like Sujith, Rajesh and Bridge, among others, have made some very valid points. Here are a few more thoughts:

A) The comparison to the Trivandrum-Bangalore Volvo services don't hold any water because the riders between two of South India's IT hubs, not inter-city commuters as in the Kerala context. An HSR fare between Trivandrum and Bangalore will work out to upwards of Rs 2500 each way. Moreover, the capital costs for buses and the HSR are not even remotely comparable, you could buy 70,000 Volvo buses for the cost of the Trivandrum-Ernakulam HSR stretch!

B) The build-it-and-they-will-come philosophy is a great recipe for financial disaster in most cases. Dubai, which someone mentioned is the common Malayaali's aspiration city, is the best case in point. The HSR may stimulate some additional trip generation due to its speed but that will still be within the demographic and market profiles that we spoke about. Just because there's a fast, albeit more expensive, means of transport doesn't mean that Sudheesh or I will travel more than we need to. Unlike mass transit which fundamentally modifies work-live location choices, HSR will not.

C) Let's do a quick thought exercise and list a few things that Kerala urgently needs:

Vizhinjam deep water port - Rs 8000 Crores
2000 MW LNG power plant at Vizhinjam - Rs 10,000 Crores
Kannur International Airport - Rs 1500 Crores
Trivandrum MRTS - Rs 6500 Crores
Ernakulam MRTS - Rs 5000 Crores
Calicut MRTS - Rs 2700 Crores
6-laning NH-66 from Cherthala to Trivandrum - Rs 5000 Crores
6-laning of NH-66 from Ernakulam to Kasargode - Rs 5000 Crores
2 new railway lines from Trivandrum to Kasargode - Rs 10,000 Crores
Development of Azhikkal and Beypore ports - Rs 1000
Sewage systems in Ernakulam and Calicut - Rs 1000 Crores
Expansion of Sewage system in Trivandrum - Rs 500 Crores
Drinking water schemes in all district HQs - Rs 3000 Crores
Urban infrastructure in the top 8 cities - Rs 5000 Crores
Acquisition of 2000 LF AC buses for cities - Rs 1200 Crores
Tertiary care hospital at each district HQ - Rs 3000 Crores
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grand Total - Rs 59,400 Crores

Even after accounting for transportation infrastructure, power, urban development and healthcare, we still have enough money left over from the Trivandrum-Kasargode HSR budget to buy 40 Airbus A-380s to start Kerala International Airlines! :lol:

And we still want to spend all this money on ONE project which will not solve any of the urgent issues addressed in the list above?

:bow: Mind you, TVM-MAN HSR cost is not 100000 Cr rather 160000 Cr

160000 cr almost equal to 176000 cr loss incurred due to 2G scam...

:bow: Mind you, TVM-MAN HSR cost is not 100000 Cr rather 160000 Cr

Okay, let's make it a 100 A-380s then, plus 10 years worth of fuel? ;)

the thing is, i believe none of us who opposes HSR is totally against it. It is the prohibitive cost which is the issue. the money can b put for much better use.

and the ppl who keep supporting HSR to the core has not been able to give even one convincing point on how it is going to be financially viable. ppl just want bragging rights without thinking abt the viability of projects

the thing is, i believe none of us who opposes HSR is totally against it. It is the prohibitive cost which is the issue. the money can b put for much better use.

and the ppl who keep supporting HSR to the core has not been able to give even one convincing point on how it is going to be financially viable. ppl just want bragging rights without thinking abt the viability of projects

There are two ways of buying a thing you like. Earn save the money then buy it or borrow some money and then buy it.
In first option it takes some time to get your required amount. You may live in tight budget but no liabilities. In second case you will have more to spent at hand at an early time but liabilities are there.

When we borrow we take the risk since anything can go wrong in the project. Thats everywhere for every project and thats the only option. If you dont borrow u do not develop. You will be in same state forever.

And about viability and those stuff, government will not be that stupid enough to play with 1.6 lakh crore without looking into viability. It just not few persons or few political parties involved in this. Those who know the job of doing these are doing it. The big failure we always met with our governments was lack of foresightedness for future development. This time they are thinking for the future,

the thing is, i believe none of us who opposes HSR is totally against it. It is the prohibitive cost which is the issue. the money can b put for much better use.

and the ppl who keep supporting HSR to the core has not been able to give even one convincing point on how it is going to be financially viable. ppl just want bragging rights without thinking abt the viability of projects

+2

Feasibility report clearly answer, all the queries raised by opponents of HRS, if only they are ready to believe.

the present kerala govt will accept whatever proposal one puts in front of them. how else will such a ridiculous project as the sky city get its approval?

Folks like Sujith, Rajesh and Bridge, among others, have made some very valid points. Here are a few more thoughts:

A) The comparison to the Trivandrum-Bangalore Volvo services don't hold any water because the riders between two of South India's IT hubs, not inter-city commuters as in the Kerala context. An HSR fare between Trivandrum and Bangalore will work out to upwards of Rs 2500 each way. Moreover, the capital costs for buses and the HSR are not even remotely comparable, you could buy 70,000 Volvo buses for the cost of the Trivandrum-Ernakulam HSR stretch!

B) The build-it-and-they-will-come philosophy is a great recipe for financial disaster in most cases. Dubai, which someone mentioned is the common Malayaali's aspiration city, is the best case in point. The HSR may stimulate some additional trip generation due to its speed but that will still be within the demographic and market profiles that we spoke about. Just because there's a fast, albeit more expensive, means of transport doesn't mean that Sudheesh or I will travel more than we need to. Unlike mass transit which fundamentally modifies work-live location choices, HSR will not.

C) Let's do a quick thought exercise and list a few things that Kerala urgently needs:

Vizhinjam deep water port - Rs 8000 Crores
2000 MW LNG power plant at Vizhinjam - Rs 10,000 Crores
Kannur International Airport - Rs 1500 Crores
Trivandrum MRTS - Rs 6500 Crores
Ernakulam MRTS - Rs 5000 Crores
Calicut MRTS - Rs 2700 Crores
6-laning NH-66 from Cherthala to Trivandrum - Rs 5000 Crores
6-laning of NH-66 from Ernakulam to Kasargode - Rs 5000 Crores
2 new railway lines from Trivandrum to Kasargode - Rs 10,000 Crores
Development of Azhikkal and Beypore ports - Rs 1000
Sewage systems in Ernakulam and Calicut - Rs 1000 Crores
Expansion of Sewage system in Trivandrum - Rs 500 Crores
Drinking water schemes in all district HQs - Rs 3000 Crores
Urban infrastructure in the top 8 cities - Rs 5000 Crores
Acquisition of 2000 LF AC buses for cities - Rs 1200 Crores
Tertiary care hospital at each district HQ - Rs 3000 Crores
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grand Total - Rs 59,400 Crores

Even after accounting for transportation infrastructure, power, urban development and healthcare, we still have enough money left over from the Trivandrum-Kasargode HSR budget to buy 40 Airbus A-380s to start Kerala International Airlines! :lol:

And we still want to spend all this money on ONE project which will not solve any of the urgent issues addressed in the list above?

You are assuming that 1 lakh crores is there in the treasury of Kearala Govt. waiting to be spent which is not at all correct. JICA is ready to fund the project based on feasibility of the project, business opportunities to Japanese, involvement of Mr. Shreedharan (who has a good track record), size of the Indian market, future of HSR in India.
In place of criticizing Kerala HSR, why don't you ask the people incharge of the project mentioned to do the same and arrange fund by themselves. Kerala HSR's loss is not going to gain in any way to these projects. The only way is to take a leaf out of the planning done by KHSR and do it themselves.:)

the thing is, i believe none of us who opposes HSR is totally against it. It is the prohibitive cost which is the issue. the money can b put for much better use.

and the ppl who keep supporting HSR to the core has not been able to give even one convincing point on how it is going to be financially viable. ppl just want bragging rights without thinking abt the viability of projects

Well, to talk about financial viablity, we further require more and more pieces of information.... Currently we have very limited information about the project. Hence as ordinary folks, we may not able to comment on viablity. But those who are working on the project, are world renowned experts and the nation has immense trust on their project skills. Its their initial opinions, the project is viable.

Ofcourse, we further require a Detailed Project Report, which is pending (It will be ready by Sept 2012) and once its presented to Govt, I think we can avail a copy of it thro' RTI.... Perhaps only then, we can actually comment on viablity and other factors......

Dear friends,

Its quite natural, there will be opposition to any new project, especially when involving higher costs.... I think, its equally important to check alternatives too......

The key issue here, which many forgot or purposefully forget is that, though there are many alternatives, each has its own demerits/issues which also take time to implement, and enlarge its cost owing to delays....

I wish to take a look into probable alternatives and its issues

------------------------------------------------------

1. Expressway:- The best solution. A 6 Lane with a dedicated one lane dual carriage for freight transport (in future a fully elevated expressway over existing possible), is something that solves our issue for next 20 to 30 years

Issue:- At par- access controlled expressway will generate heavy protests as Kerala is heavily dense populated state and too hard to find any portion without habitation unless we go to high range

Even to acquire a 45m wide Semi acess controlled NH has ran into trouble, making even acquired 30 M in many places lying idle for more than 10 years..... By the time we acquire a 45m wide 4 lane NH, the demand will be for 8 lane traffic.....

----------------

2. Fully Elevated Expressway

Issues with Solution:- Cost wise, it will shoot up terribly. Secondly it will freeze possibilities of increasing width for future, when more demand comes. And more roads, is indirect promotion of number of cars/private vehicles and existing roads won't able to cater more and more rising traffic. Land Acquisition still has an issue, it has to acquire atleast 30 to 40 M land in width.

Solution:- Despite of these negatives, still is a viable route in future, as the demand is always rising.... In

-------

3. Railways

Issue:- IR is incompenent enough for new lines, new services. Its a time consuming process and will take atleast 20 to 30 years, even for doubling any existing line.

The regular argument would be privatization. The proposals of privatization of Railways been in air for past 5 to 8 years.... It will take another 10 years for the process to kick off, passing several layers of bureaucracy and Parliament. And another 10 to 15 years, for see a private mixed use railway line and railway services flagging off in Kerala. I don't think Kerala can afford to wait for 30 more years to get better lines and services

Solution:- Lot of solutions are there... But railways is One big Giant and cannot hear all. Hence all options under this head are too time consuming and hence unviable

----------

4. Inland Waterways

Issue:- The prime issue of Inland water navigation, even on commissioning of NW 3 is that, it will not cater a faster transit passengers....... In modern society, time is something precious. The water transport takes more than 3 to 4 hours even to cover a 200 Kms distance. Hence might not be popular for longer routes, limiting to shorter routes

Secondly more services cannot be introduced, as most of inland waterways are sources of freshwater supply for the state and pollution of it will create more dangerous sitution.

Solution:- Not much. Perhaps it can take limited crowd plying in shorter distances. But will not address long distance transit passengers

-------------------

5. Airways

Airways take less time to transit all places. It can be combination of light aircrafts, helicopters, gliders and amphibious aircrafts, apart from standard jets to transit.

Issues:- Requires large tracts of open land to be acquired, even for unpaved fight runways for gliders/light aircrafts..... In a highly dense populated state, mass acquisition of land in one place, especially when involving wetlands will invite more massive protests... Day by day, environmental laws are getting tougher. So it won't be massive easy

Even for Amphibous aircraft services that can land in small tracts of land or water bodies, still the cost of the aircraft and fuel, coupled with safety and other costs, will not be a match for mass transport. It shall remain primarily individual transport.

3 or 4 Airports is maximum, a state like Kerala can afford. Still, there are many more places to be accessed and it will be still difficult to reach other prime towns/cities. Since Kerala model donot focus on buliding one or two major cities, such concepts will be irrelevant. The time factor is one major disadvantage.

-----------------------------------

6. Coastal Ferries

This is the only area, I see potential to solve much of woes, provided the state develops more ports, more promotion to coastal shipping/ferry services and more private parties get involved.

Issue:- Development of Ports are crucial. The state govt cannot develop every port..... Lot of private investors has to be roped in. Since ports's profitablity is not purely dependent on inter-city transit when involving private partners, hinterland freight traffic has to developed. More coastal vessels are required and more operators.

Though these services are popular in Europe, in Asia, particularly South, West and East Asia, its not much. The primary reason could be presence of traditional and mass fishing, not done in corporatized style. Even considering such options, we have to address the fishing concerns of 8.8 lakh fishermen serving the 12 Nm Territorial waters.

The third issue is, still it won't address traffic towards hinterland as well as even the fastest ship has speed of less than 150 Km/per hour basis......

Solution:- But despite of all, its not as difficult task as if there is a will, it can be done pretty easy. Comparative to high speed rail, High Speed Ro-Pax Ferry has key advantage of taking private cars from one city to another, without plying on congested highways. Being a mixed use, it can earn better and is cost effective compared to Investments made on HSR......

---------------------

Compared to all the options and issues that prevails over it, I feel the only two potential mode of faster and mass transport suitable for Kerala, would be HSR and Coastal Ferry. Even Inland Navigation will play key role for shorter transit and reduce its dependency on NH.....

In meantime, 4 Laned NH, upgradation of state highways, development of alternative GIS/GPS aided SH routes etc will also help reducing traffic congestions to much, only if other two options are realized in long run.

Well, this is my personal opinion about the issues......

You are assuming that 1 lakh crores is there in the treasury of Kearala Govt. waiting to be spent which is not at all correct. JICA is ready to fund the project based on feasibility of the project, business opportunities to Japanese, involvement of Mr. Shreedharan (who has a good track record), size of the Indian market, future of HSR in India.
In place of criticizing Kerala HSR, why don't you ask the people incharge of the project mentioned to do the same and arrange fund by themselves. Kerala HSR's loss is not going to gain in any way to these projects. The only way is to take a leaf out of the planning done by KHSR and do it themselves.:)

A) Neither is the JICA money in the bag, unless you have information to the contrary.

B) All the infrastructure investments in the list can also be funded by DFI funds.

C) This is a question of EITHER OR because the funds needed to repay the loan for the HSR can be better utilized to repay or fund the higher priority projects in the list.

The basic question is, whether you agree that these projects are more important and more urgent, from the angle of greatest benefit to the greatest number than the HSR project?

Yes or No?

Hey, the govt said it is 'feasible' to build and operate the railway. I have no doubt about it. If JICA pays, someone can sure build and run it.

My fear is, it is not viable. Will it have enough ridership to cover cost, let alone pay back the loan? No way.

Hey, the govt said it is 'feasible' to build and operate the railway. I have no doubt about it. If JICA pays, someone can sure build and run it.

My fear is, it is not viable. Will it have enough ridership to cover cost, let alone pay back the loan? No way.

I think by the time it is operation say 2020, it would be viable. Rs 2k-3k will be nothing that times,

Hey, the govt said it is 'feasible' to build and operate the railway. I have no doubt about it. If JICA pays, someone can sure build and run it.

My fear is, it is not viable. Will it have enough ridership to cover cost, let alone pay back the loan? No way.

Perhaps, there could be very few examples in HSR or any Mass rapid transit to be profitable within first few years of operations and ability to repay loans by itself. In this context, the rail company many not be viable enough to repay loans from itself

But faster and rapid transport, enables an economy to repay the loans with increased business opporunity, better investments, higher revenue sources etc. Since HSR is planned as a Govt entity, the Govt will be repaying the loans, with its increased economic operations.

The classic example that Cochin State Railway Board and its operator Madras Railways was never able to generate any penny of profit, to repay the loans it raised from Chidambaram Temple, Private Individuals and Travancore state, for financing the 1902 Cochin Rail Line. But the Economy of Kochi grew rapidly that by 1940s, the entire line was debt-free as the economy was able to repay the loans.

A) Neither is the JICA money in the bag, unless you have information to the contrary.

B) All the infrastructure investments in the list can also be funded by DFI funds.

C) This is a question of EITHER OR because the funds needed to repay the loan for the HSR can be better utilized to repay or fund the higher priority projects in the list.

The basic question is, whether you agree that these projects are more important and more urgent, from the angle of greatest benefit to the greatest number than the HSR project?

Yes or No?

JICA has shown interest to fund the project and it is not easy to get JICA funding. It has surely seen some merit in the project, so don't be unnecessarily skeptic.
The project you mentioned are also important and hope the people incharge will work in the direction of implementing it. Your either this or that is no solution.

Dear friends,

Its quite natural, there will be opposition to any new project, especially when involving higher costs.... I think, its equally important to check alternatives too......

The key issue here, which many forgot or purposefully forget is that, though there are many alternatives, each has its own demerits/issues which also take time to implement, and enlarge its cost owing to delays....

I wish to take a look into probable alternatives and its issues

------------------------------------------------------

1. Expressway:- The best solution. A 6 Lane with a dedicated one lane dual carriage for freight transport (in future a fully elevated expressway over existing possible), is something that solves our issue for next 20 to 30 years

Issue:- At par- access controlled expressway will generate heavy protests as Kerala is heavily dense populated state and too hard to find any portion without habitation unless we go to high range

Even to acquire a 45m wide Semi acess controlled NH has ran into trouble, making even acquired 30 M in many places lying idle for more than 10 years..... By the time we acquire a 45m wide 4 lane NH, the demand will be for 8 lane traffic.....

----------------

2. Fully Elevated Expressway

Issues with Solution:- Cost wise, it will shoot up terribly. Secondly it will freeze possibilities of increasing width for future, when more demand comes. And more roads, is indirect promotion of number of cars/private vehicles and existing roads won't able to cater more and more rising traffic. Land Acquisition still has an issue, it has to acquire atleast 30 to 40 M land in width.

Solution:- Despite of these negatives, still is a viable route in future, as the demand is always rising.... In

-------

3. Railways

Issue:- IR is incompenent enough for new lines, new services. Its a time consuming process and will take atleast 20 to 30 years, even for doubling any existing line.

The regular argument would be privatization. The proposals of privatization of Railways been in air for past 5 to 8 years.... It will take another 10 years for the process to kick off, passing several layers of bureaucracy and Parliament. And another 10 to 15 years, for see a private mixed use railway line and railway services flagging off in Kerala. I don't think Kerala can afford to wait for 30 more years to get better lines and services

Solution:- Lot of solutions are there... But railways is One big Giant and cannot hear all. Hence all options under this head are too time consuming and hence unviable

----------

4. Inland Waterways

Issue:- The prime issue of Inland water navigation, even on commissioning of NW 3 is that, it will not cater a faster transit passengers....... In modern society, time is something precious. The water transport takes more than 3 to 4 hours even to cover a 200 Kms distance. Hence might not be popular for longer routes, limiting to shorter routes

Secondly more services cannot be introduced, as most of inland waterways are sources of freshwater supply for the state and pollution of it will create more dangerous sitution.

Solution:- Not much. Perhaps it can take limited crowd plying in shorter distances. But will not address long distance transit passengers

-------------------

5. Airways

Airways take less time to transit all places. It can be combination of light aircrafts, helicopters, gliders and amphibious aircrafts, apart from standard jets to transit.

Issues:- Requires large tracts of open land to be acquired, even for unpaved fight runways for gliders/light aircrafts..... In a highly dense populated state, mass acquisition of land in one place, especially when involving wetlands will invite more massive protests... Day by day, environmental laws are getting tougher. So it won't be massive easy

Even for Amphibous aircraft services that can land in small tracts of land or water bodies, still the cost of the aircraft and fuel, coupled with safety and other costs, will not be a match for mass transport. It shall remain primarily individual transport.

3 or 4 Airports is maximum, a state like Kerala can afford. Still, there are many more places to be accessed and it will be still difficult to reach other prime towns/cities. Since Kerala model donot focus on buliding one or two major cities, such concepts will be irrelevant. The time factor is one major disadvantage.

-----------------------------------

6. Coastal Ferries

This is the only area, I see potential to solve much of woes, provided the state develops more ports, more promotion to coastal shipping/ferry services and more private parties get involved.

Issue:- Development of Ports are crucial. The state govt cannot develop every port..... Lot of private investors has to be roped in. Since ports's profitablity is not purely dependent on inter-city transit when involving private partners, hinterland freight traffic has to developed. More coastal vessels are required and more operators.

Though these services are popular in Europe, in Asia, particularly South, West and East Asia, its not much. The primary reason could be presence of traditional and mass fishing, not done in corporatized style. Even considering such options, we have to address the fishing concerns of 8.8 lakh fishermen serving the 12 Nm Territorial waters.

The third issue is, still it won't address traffic towards hinterland as well as even the fastest ship has speed of less than 150 Km/per hour basis......

Solution:- But despite of all, its not as difficult task as if there is a will, it can be done pretty easy. Comparative to high speed rail, High Speed Ro-Pax Ferry has key advantage of taking private cars from one city to another, without plying on congested highways. Being a mixed use, it can earn better and is cost effective compared to Investments made on HSR......

---------------------

Compared to all the options and issues that prevails over it, I feel the only two potential mode of faster and mass transport suitable for Kerala, would be HSR and Coastal Ferry. Even Inland Navigation will play key role for shorter transit and reduce its dependency on NH.....

In meantime, 4 Laned NH, upgradation of state highways, development of alternative GIS/GPS aided SH routes etc will also help reducing traffic congestions to much, only if other two options are realized in long run.

Well, this is my personal opinion about the issues......

You have nicely listed out all the option and the possibility of these projects happening. We are going round and round during the discussion. KHSR looks more likely to happen in future and hence shall be supported.

One more factor of these discussions going on here, which I noted was many US living members are advocating against HSR, comparing to US Scenairo.

The US urban transport is for airways and inter-state expressway/freeways, than rails etc. This was their guiding principle since 19th century.

But terrain/demographic wise, we can't take US equivalent to Kerala. The former has extremely large tracts of open/waste/desert lands, equivalent for massive roads and larger airports. The distance between various states are too far, it demands air transport..... The country itself has massive oil deposits and almost every kind of resource......

Whereas the right comparison between Kerala, should be with Japan or Taiwan which shares almost every similar attribute. Both Kerala and Japan are extremely resource limited state, having one of the world's highest ground density as well as area heavily fertile and naturally irrigated. In such a circumstance, the best comparision should be between Japan and Kerala.

1. We have no/little oil reserves and can't afford more roads that demands more transport that depends on oil

2. When LA for ground transportation is so tiresome and time consuming process for massive expressway/airports, it limits our prospects

3. Both Japan and Kerala have massive floating population, thereby having people ready or already commuting between residence and urban/work centers via public transport and private cars (Japan's rationale for HSR in 1970s was its traditional rail can't support the overwhelming floating population, something which Kerala has been facing)

4. In both the states, passenger traffic is on very higher scale than freight, hence requires more viable and supporting faster passenger transit.

5. Japan, while designing HSR, proposed the concept of ENABLING commuters from one end to another end, which was not there previously. Their HSR enabled a dream and rapidly transformed one of the most poorest, resource barred, all destroyed post war economy into one of world's fastest growing.

I too believe, its the enabling factor, thats going to help Keralites to transport more and develop more business opportunities.

JICA has shown interest to fund the project and it is not easy to get JICA funding. It has surely seen some merit in the project, so don't be unnecessarily skeptic.
The project you mentioned are also important and hope the people incharge will work in the direction of implementing it. Your either this or that is no solution.

Amen! :)

I think by the time it is operation say 2020, it would be viable. Rs 2k-3k will be nothing that times,
Remember, we need to repay in Yen. that means, the loan amount also inflates along with the ticket rate.

But faster and rapid transport, enables an economy to repay the loans with increased business opporunity, better investments, higher revenue sources etc. Since HSR is planned as a Govt entity, the Govt will be repaying the loans, with its increased economic operations.

The classic example that Cochin State Railway Board and its operator Madras Railways was never able to generate any penny of profit, to repay the loans it raised from Chidambaram Temple, Private Individuals and Travancore state, for financing the 1902 Cochin Rail Line. But the Economy of Kochi grew rapidly that by 1940s, the entire line was debt-free as the economy was able to repay the loans.

dear irshad, from where does our Kerala govt get so much revenue to repay this huge debt? obviously, in the end, they will hv to increase the revenue collection, which MIGHT mean more tax collection from ppl like us. increased cess on petrol, more tolls, more tax, just to pay off the interest for this white elephant.

and btw, dont forget, as per history, the king had (taken from ur cochin history, legacy....)

The King sold his 11 sacred crowns, half of Hill Palaces Gold reserves, used up entire Temple gold treasures and on the top 14 sacred Golden Caparisons of Palace Elephants of Tripunithara Temple, leaving one alone back.

in short, ullathu ellaam vittu tholachu, for one rail line project. are v also going to do the same - sell/ pawn whatever v hv just for this one single project?

and if history repeats, this HSR line will bring the downfall of the govt as well, just like for him

I think by the time it is operation say 2020, it would be viable. Rs 2k-3k will be nothing that times,

yah, keralites will be so bloody rich, no one will mind shelling out Rs 2000/ 3000 for a ONE WAY ticket from kochi to tvm!!! :bash:

One more factor of these discussions going on here, which I noted was many US living members are advocating against HSR, comparing to US Scenairo.

The US urban transport is for airways and inter-state expressway/freeways, than rails etc. This was their guiding principle since 19th century.

But terrain/demographic wise, we can't take US equivalent to Kerala. The former has extremely large tracts of open/waste/desert lands, equivalent for massive roads and larger airports. The distance between various states are too far, it demands air transport..... The country itself has massive oil deposits and almost every kind of resource......

Whereas the right comparison between Kerala, should be with Japan or Taiwan which shares almost every similar attribute. Both Kerala and Japan are extremely resource limited state, having one of the world's highest ground density as well as area heavily fertile and naturally irrigated. In such a circumstance, the best comparision should be between Japan and Kerala.

1. We have no/little oil reserves and can't afford more roads that demands more transport that depends on oil

2. When LA for ground transportation is so tiresome and time consuming process for massive expressway/airports, it limits our prospects

3. Both Japan and Kerala have massive floating population, thereby having people ready or already commuting between residence and urban/work centers via public transport and private cars (Japan's rationale for HSR in 1970s was its traditional rail can't support the overwhelming floating population, something which Kerala has been facing)

4. In both the states, passenger traffic is on very higher scale than freight, hence requires more viable and supporting faster passenger transit.

5. Japan, while designing HSR, proposed the concept of ENABLING commuters from one end to another end, which was not there previously. Their HSR enabled a dream and rapidly transformed one of the most poorest, resource barred, all destroyed post war economy into one of world's fastest growing.

I too believe, its the enabling factor, thats going to help Keralites to transport more and develop more business opportunities.

dear irshad, the per capita gdp (ppp) of japan NOW is $34362 while that of kerala is $1288. be reasonable in comparing. the rail charges for them might be peanuts compared to us keralites. if v find Rs1000 expensive now for ONE WAY travel from kochi to tvm, how can v be able to afford it 10 years later at an INFLATED cost?

Hey, the govt said it is 'feasible' to build and operate the railway. I have no doubt about it. If JICA pays, someone can sure build and run it.

My fear is, it is not viable. Will it have enough ridership to cover cost, let alone pay back the loan? No way.

very true. it is of course TECHNICALLY FEASIBLE. but is it FINANCIALLY VIABLE to build this line? that is the 1 lakh crore question :ohno:

dear irshad, from where does our Kerala govt get so much revenue to repay this huge debt? obviously, in the end, they will hv to increase the revenue collection, which MIGHT mean more tax collection from ppl like us. increased cess on petrol, more tolls, more tax, just to pay off the interest for this white elephant.

and btw, dont forget, as per history, the king had (taken from ur cochin history, legacy....)


in short, ullathu ellaam vittu tholachu, for one rail line project. are v also going to do the same - sell/ pawn whatever v hv just for this one single project?

and if history repeats, this HSR line will bring the downfall of the govt as well, just like for him

So what, that one rail line between Kochi and Shornour changed Kochi fortunes. Hope you might have read it fully.... Yeah, it brought his downfall as a King.... But it only helped a small merchant city, to rise into a port city of national and international repute over a period of 100 years.... Thats something called vision.....

And whats use of temple gold reserves, if its going to lie underneath earth without any use neither for state or its public..... Its good, Kochi King sold everything, so that, today state have one major IR Line, thats almost 140% saturated and still demanding 3rd and 4th line of it.....

After all boasting of Gold reserves will not help the state to grow.....

The state requires a faster transit, which only will change fortunes of the state in next 100 years..... The economy will be equipped to repay the money taken as loan and traffic will rise. Its of better interest to do so, than doing nothing......

dear irshad, the per capita gdp (ppp) of japan NOW is $34362 while that of kerala is $1288. be reasonable in comparing. the rail charges for them might be peanuts compared to us keralites. if v find Rs1000 expensive now for ONE WAY travel from kochi to tvm, how can v be able to afford it 10 years later at an INFLATED cost?

Did you take Per Capita Income of Japan at the time of taking decision of Bullet Train in mid of 1960s?

How worst is this, to compare today Japan and today's Kerala, when we are talking about a project of tommorrow? Isn't it the same, we are talking about today's Kerala and tommorrow's HSR?

Pls compare 1960s Japan GDP and today's Kerala GDP..... You will find more reasons to join with me.......

Dear friends,

Its quite natural, there will be opposition to any new project, especially when involving higher costs.... I think, its equally important to check alternatives too......

The key issue here, which many forgot or purposefully forget is that, though there are many alternatives, each has its own demerits/issues which also take time to implement, and enlarge its cost owing to delays....

I wish to take a look into probable alternatives and its issues

------------------------------------------------------

1. Expressway:- The best solution. A 6 Lane with a dedicated one lane dual carriage for freight transport (in future a fully elevated expressway over existing possible), is something that solves our issue for next 20 to 30 years

Issue:- At par- access controlled expressway will generate heavy protests as Kerala is heavily dense populated state and too hard to find any portion without habitation unless we go to high range

Even to acquire a 45m wide Semi acess controlled NH has ran into trouble, making even acquired 30 M in many places lying idle for more than 10 years..... By the time we acquire a 45m wide 4 lane NH, the demand will be for 8 lane traffic.....

----------------

2. Fully Elevated Expressway

Issues with Solution:- Cost wise, it will shoot up terribly. Secondly it will freeze possibilities of increasing width for future, when more demand comes. And more roads, is indirect promotion of number of cars/private vehicles and existing roads won't able to cater more and more rising traffic. Land Acquisition still has an issue, it has to acquire atleast 30 to 40 M land in width.

Solution:- Despite of these negatives, still is a viable route in future, as the demand is always rising.... In

-------

3. Railways

Issue:- IR is incompenent enough for new lines, new services. Its a time consuming process and will take atleast 20 to 30 years, even for doubling any existing line.

The regular argument would be privatization. The proposals of privatization of Railways been in air for past 5 to 8 years.... It will take another 10 years for the process to kick off, passing several layers of bureaucracy and Parliament. And another 10 to 15 years, for see a private mixed use railway line and railway services flagging off in Kerala. I don't think Kerala can afford to wait for 30 more years to get better lines and services

Solution:- Lot of solutions are there... But railways is One big Giant and cannot hear all. Hence all options under this head are too time consuming and hence unviable

----------

4. Inland Waterways

Issue:- The prime issue of Inland water navigation, even on commissioning of NW 3 is that, it will not cater a faster transit passengers....... In modern society, time is something precious. The water transport takes more than 3 to 4 hours even to cover a 200 Kms distance. Hence might not be popular for longer routes, limiting to shorter routes

Secondly more services cannot be introduced, as most of inland waterways are sources of freshwater supply for the state and pollution of it will create more dangerous sitution.

Solution:- Not much. Perhaps it can take limited crowd plying in shorter distances. But will not address long distance transit passengers

-------------------

5. Airways

Airways take less time to transit all places. It can be combination of light aircrafts, helicopters, gliders and amphibious aircrafts, apart from standard jets to transit.

Issues:- Requires large tracts of open land to be acquired, even for unpaved fight runways for gliders/light aircrafts..... In a highly dense populated state, mass acquisition of land in one place, especially when involving wetlands will invite more massive protests... Day by day, environmental laws are getting tougher. So it won't be massive easy

Even for Amphibous aircraft services that can land in small tracts of land or water bodies, still the cost of the aircraft and fuel, coupled with safety and other costs, will not be a match for mass transport. It shall remain primarily individual transport.

3 or 4 Airports is maximum, a state like Kerala can afford. Still, there are many more places to be accessed and it will be still difficult to reach other prime towns/cities. Since Kerala model donot focus on buliding one or two major cities, such concepts will be irrelevant. The time factor is one major disadvantage.

-----------------------------------

6. Coastal Ferries

This is the only area, I see potential to solve much of woes, provided the state develops more ports, more promotion to coastal shipping/ferry services and more private parties get involved.

Issue:- Development of Ports are crucial. The state govt cannot develop every port..... Lot of private investors has to be roped in. Since ports's profitablity is not purely dependent on inter-city transit when involving private partners, hinterland freight traffic has to developed. More coastal vessels are required and more operators.

Though these services are popular in Europe, in Asia, particularly South, West and East Asia, its not much. The primary reason could be presence of traditional and mass fishing, not done in corporatized style. Even considering such options, we have to address the fishing concerns of 8.8 lakh fishermen serving the 12 Nm Territorial waters.

The third issue is, still it won't address traffic towards hinterland as well as even the fastest ship has speed of less than 150 Km/per hour basis......

Solution:- But despite of all, its not as difficult task as if there is a will, it can be done pretty easy. Comparative to high speed rail, High Speed Ro-Pax Ferry has key advantage of taking private cars from one city to another, without plying on congested highways. Being a mixed use, it can earn better and is cost effective compared to Investments made on HSR......

---------------------

Compared to all the options and issues that prevails over it, I feel the only two potential mode of faster and mass transport suitable for Kerala, would be HSR and Coastal Ferry. Even Inland Navigation will play key role for shorter transit and reduce its dependency on NH.....

In meantime, 4 Laned NH, upgradation of state highways, development of alternative GIS/GPS aided SH routes etc will also help reducing traffic congestions to much, only if other two options are realized in long run.

Well, this is my personal opinion about the issues......

my suggestion would be to build a 6 lane or more access controlled fully elevated expressway. and keep the current NH's toll free. in that way, whoever wants to travel faster without minding paying for it will use the elevated one and those who dont mind the traffic and cares just abt not paying toll will use the current NH's and crawl to their destination.

also, roll out more MEMU services connecting nearby cities like kochi - ktm, kollam - tvm etc.

Did you take Per Capita Income of Japan at the time of taking decision of Bullet Train in mid of 1960s?

How worst is this, to compare today Japan and today's Kerala, when we are talking about a project of tommorrow? Isn't it the same, we are talking about today's Kerala and tommorrow's HSR?

Pls compare 1960s Japan GDP and today's Kerala GDP..... You will find more reasons to join with me.......

thats y i mentioned the GDP NOW. do u think the per capita income of keralites will suddenly jump many times more making it affordable? i also mentioned abt the price increase due to inflation

the percapita income of japan in 1964 was $6602, almost 4 times more than the per capita income of keralites NOW. u still think its right to compare the both?

http://www.publicpurpose.com/lm-ppp60+.htm

Before you go overboard, MI, the line was not to Shornur. It was to the rest of the entire Indian rail network. Just connecting to Shornur does nothing to the economy.

Similarly, HSR makes sense if it connects to other economic areas and metros of the country, like Chennai, Bengaluru and Mumbai. I do not see an economic impetus from an HSR within the state.

the percapita income of japan in 1964 was $6602, almost 4 times more than the per capita income of keralites NOW. u still think its right to compare the both?

http://www.publicpurpose.com/lm-ppp60+.htm

Definitely yes, Sujith..... Kerala GDP never takes account of massive foreign remittances and purchasing power, which we call Kerala Paradox. Since GDP PPP takes somewhat purchasing power into account, Kerala has $ 3350 as its GDP PPP (http://www.firstpost.com/politics/not-quite-heaven-the-ground-realities-of-the-kerala-model-39984.html), which is only little higher in 1960, when the decision work on HSR project started (In 1960 Japan was $ 4672, around 1322 $ extra, which anyway not as big as you project).....

We can see the level at Japan was leaping from 1960s to 1990s, definitely because of massive industrialization. Infrastructure played a key role in doing that. And Japan will be known around the world for its High Speed Trains than a 6 laned expressway.... Hope you got my point.......

Before you go overboard, MI, the line was not to Shornur. It was to the rest of the entire Indian rail network. Just connecting to Shornur does nothing to the economy.

Similarly, HSR makes sense if it connects to other economic areas and metros of the country, like Chennai, Bengaluru and Mumbai. I do not see an economic impetus from an HSR within the state.

True!!!! But someone has to start at some point.... Imagine what would happen to Kochi, if the King believed that the project was unviable, amatuerish as reported by eminent British economists..... The King planned only till his state, but sooner or later British connected it to their network.... A similar turn of events can happen in Kerala HSR too....

When Britishers started Bombay-Thane line in 1850s, there was no railways. Yet that line laid foundations for modern Metropolis called Mumbai.... Had Dalhouise waited to get, then the larger Metro- Calcutta to have a line first, before much smaller presidency city- Mumbai, the story would have been totally different today.

You have start somewhere, at some point..... How long you can sit and say, let neighbours start and we will follow.... Definitely there is lot of first mover advantage...

When Kerala starts and proves HSR, more states like TN, Karnataka will too start or push hard for Southern HSR. Those linkages happens and it shall create an economic grid....

There is no point in wasting next 20 years idle and believing one day IR will bring HSR to Kerala......

If Ali donot go to the mountains, the mountains has to come to Ali- an old malayalam saying.......

my suggestion would be to build a 6 lane or more access controlled fully elevated expressway. and keep the current NH's toll free. in that way, whoever wants to travel faster without minding paying for it will use the elevated one and those who dont mind the traffic and cares just abt not paying toll will use the current NH's and crawl to their destination.

also, roll out more MEMU services connecting nearby cities like kochi - ktm, kollam - tvm etc.

Well, a good suggestion.

The state govt will have to shell out full amount for NHAI's 4 lane + service road of NH, if BOT is not allowed. Thats means, more than 1000 crore in that way itself.

Secondly you cannot build a fully elevated expressway in 20 M wide Land... One major issue of Elevated Expressway is that, it must take into account, traffic for next 50 to 70 years, instead of traditional 20-30 years, as you cannot further increase the width of an elevated expressway....

That means, we cannot have a 6 lane expressway, but atleast a 8 lane expressway + 2 lanes for heavy vehicles (buses etc if not freight). This alone requires a width of elevated passage of around 40 to 50 M space.... In all possible way, the ground LA has to be around 30 M.

Being elevated, it costs more for interchanges, fully elevated refuelling stations etc........

In all these way, I don't believe, there will be a remarkable cost difference between HSR and elevated Expressway.

-----

In addition, always expressways and roads is an indirect promotion for more vehicles and private cars. If you have more roads, in one way, it promotes more ownership of vehicles. More vehicles means more oil and again increases the societial cost to higher... This can be avoided when migrating to a mass public transport, without depending much oil for long distance trips, while limiting private vehicles for intra-city traffic.....

------

MEMU services anyway is required. But that alone proves the classic example, how we cannot depend railways always. Its more than 3 years over, since Memus were declared for Kerala. In all probable ways, it will take another 2 to 3 years even for one service. Yet, without doubling or increasing lines, all trains will continue to crawl in the state.....

In short, we have a totally primitive rail network, taking bulk of passengers, which will not help the state's growth forever.......

Guys,

We had a couple round of discussions on both pros and cons of the project. After going thro' many here, I don't feel none of them are against the concept called HSR. But the apprehensions about its costs and viablity.

Well, I believe, there are more experts and professionals than us working for the project and more key reputed national and international figures. They are better more key to judge than us. Since we are limited to discussions, what I feel is to be opptimastic for the project as I believe it will revolutionize the state's progress and rapid leap for development.

There can be debates and discussions endlessly, involving techno-economic-social matters....

But in my opinion, all have a counter opinions and gets equally balanced at one point or not. This reminds me the most superb scene in the classic Malayalam movie- Traffic.... I am posting the scene here below

One can argue for and against based on its technicalities. But at the end of the day, the best is to take a major risk. One NO to the project, will not change the day... It shall remain like any other day. But ONE YES shall definitely change. A change to motivate others to take similar bold steps. And thats what make History. I believe in History


wiy76asBYGg

With this, I am summing up discussions on this matter from my side. I believe, its something that future needs for our development as well as region's. And if god willingly, along with our determination, it shall happen. Insha Allah!!!!

^^ Thats quite good thinking MI... But am afraid about not only the risk factor in implementing the project but also the fund allocation and its repayment. Arinju kondu kuzhiyil chaadano ennu maathrame ullooo ivide prasnam? ;)

^^ Thats quite good thinking MI... But am afraid about not only the risk factor in implementing the project but also the fund allocation and its repayment. Arinju kondu kuzhiyil chaadano ennu maathrame ullooo ivide prasnam? ;)

Every time when you are ready to take a risk, this question will come. There will be more people to say, its going to be disaster in making.... The British had same opinion, that granting Independence would be disaster for India itself.... Perhaps, to some extend, they can say that to our neighbours, but definitely not to India anyways.......

At every point of history, the rulers are made before a point of dilemma. We have countless examples. The right solution is invest into a project with heart and brain, you will get a body out of it.....

I am sure with the level of growth, we are aiming at, these projects are nessecary of future and economy will support it.... The only thing to be controlled is cost over-runs and high scale project management skills for effective and time bound implementation. Rest all is assured!!!

Cheers:cheers:

[B]The right solution is invest into a project with heart and brain, you will get a body out of it.....


Well said buddy... That is what my point is... :okay:

The right solution is invest into a project with heart and brain, you will get a body out of it....

You mean the kind with the toe-tag that reads "John Doe"?

China's high-speed rail project runs out of steam

China's high-speed rail project, the jewel of the country's transport policy and one of the most impressive feats of engineering in the world, has run out of money and will be scaled back dramatically this year.

Out of 23 current railway projects, some 70 per cent have been suspended, partly suspended, or delayed, according to the Chinese state media.

Meanwhile, an unnamed source told Dow Jones, the news agency, that only nine new railways would be commissioned this year, compared to 70 last year.

Having run up enormous debts, the Chinese Railways ministry is struggling to persuade banks to continue to finance its ambitions.

Ticket sales, meanwhile, have been slow on some lines as travellers baulk at the price.

"The ministry cannot bear so much debt. It has already taken 240 billion yuan (£24 billion) of loans and if it takes much more how can it pay the interest?" said Wang Mengshu, a member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering and senior consultant on the high-speed rail project.

"It can make profits of about 70 billion yuan on freight, but it is making no money on passenger travel. The government should cancel some of the debt, or invest some money itself rather than asking the banks to finance it," he added.

"A lot of projects are half-finished and while nine new lines have been approved this year, no one has started building them."

By the end of this year, China's high-speed network is likely to stretch to over 6,000 miles, transporting hundreds of millions of passengers in spacious long-nosed bullet trains. The 819-mile journey from Beijing to Shanghai, more than twice the distance from London to Edinburgh, now takes under five hours.

At the height of the high-speed boom, trains were being fitted with toilets that cost 1.2 million yuan (£120,000) a piece, and taps imported from Japan that cost 7,000 yuan, according to an investigation by Century Weekly magazine.

However, China's high-speed rail ambitions, which include tendering for the London to Birmingham high-speed link, took a blow last July when two trains collided, killing 40 and injuring almost 200.

A few months before the crash, China's Railway minister, Liu Zhijun was removed from his post and now faces corruption charges. Zhang Shuguang, the deputy chief engineer, who is also under investigation, reportedly paid £540,000 for a house in Los Angeles while on a monthly salary of a few hundred pounds.

Questions were raised about how much of the £190 billion high-speed rail budget had been siphoned off, and whether it would have an impact on the safety of the network.

In the wake of the crash, the Ministry found it increasingly expensive to borrow money, and no longer had access to the huge stimulus loans that were handed out in the wake of the financial crisis to keep the Chinese economy going.

"The Ministry's debts are now worth 60 per cent of its assets, and some analysts think they may rise to 70 per cent this year," reported the China Business Times.

Source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9095729/Chinas-high-speed-rail-project-runs-out-of-steam.html)

^^^ Not trying to compare but since we might be following a similar path there are lessons to be learnt from their experience

Dude the chinese are stupid morons..they are bilding HSR lines even on those routes which are unfeasible...the chinese motive is to build big not to build efficiently...they focus on quantity not quality...no other country in this world are connecting smaller cities and towns via HSR like these chinese...

And whats use of temple gold reserves, if its going to lie underneath earth without any use neither for state or its public.....

After all boasting of Gold reserves will not help the state to grow.....



Better safe in the reserves of temple for future generations , than getting looted by our present day ruthless politicians(2G scam, Fodder Scam ... etc.)

ക്ഷേത്ര നിധി കണ്ടു ആരും പനിക്കണ്ട.
ക്ഷേത്ര നിധി ക്ഷേത്രത്തിനു മാത്രം ഉള്ളതാണ്

ക്ഷേത്ര നിധി കണ്ടു ആരും പനിക്കണ്ട.
ക്ഷേത്ര നിധി ക്ഷേത്രത്തിനു മാത്രം ഉള്ളതാണ്

+1000

ക്ഷേത്ര നിധി കണ്ടു ആരും പനിക്കണ്ട.
ക്ഷേത്ര നിധി ക്ഷേത്രത്തിനു മാത്രം ഉള്ളതാണ്

100 % marks for that

ക്ഷേത്ര നിധി കണ്ടു ആരും പനിക്കണ്ട.
ക്ഷേത്ര നിധി ക്ഷേത്രത്തിനു മാത്രം ഉള്ളതാണ്
???

Nothing important friend, just a fun bit about the treasures in our ancient temples.

Lol okay

ക്ഷേത്ര നിധി കണ്ടു ആരും പനിക്കണ്ട.
ക്ഷേത്ര നിധി ക്ഷേത്രത്തിനു മാത്രം ഉള്ളതാണ്

+1000000001

പദ്മനാഭന്റെ സമ്പത്ത് കണ്ടിട്ട് ആര്*ക്കും 'മെട്രോ' 'ഹൈസ്പീഡ്' പനി പിടിക്കണ്ട.

Tenders part of DPR:

For Topographical survey from:
1. Thalessery to Kasargod - NIT (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/401/NIT.pdf), Tender Document (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/401/Tender_Document.pdf)
2. Tirur to Thalessery - NIT (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/400/NIT.pdf), Tender Document (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/400/Tender_Document.pdf)
3. Ernakulum to Tirur - NIT (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/399/NIT.pdf), Tender Document (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/399/Tender_Document.pdf)

For Geo-Technical investigation from:
1. Thiruvanathapuram to Changannur - NIT (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/398/NIT.pdf), Tender Document (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/398/Tender_Document.pdf)
2. Thalessery to Kasaragod - NIT (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/397/NIT.pdf), Tender Document (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/397/Tender_Document.pdf)
3. Tirur to Thalessery - NIT (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/396/NIT.pdf), Tender Document (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/396/Tender_Document.pdf)
4. Ernakulam to Tirur - NIT (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/395/NIT.pdf), Tender Document (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/395/Tender_Document.pdf)
5. Changannur to Ernakulam - NIT (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/394/NIT.pdf), Tender Document (http://delhimetrorail.com/otherdocuments/394/Tender_Document.pdf)

Check this video about the Indian Railways Budget
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL_nyGu9UR0&context=C4bd709eADvjVQa1PpcFO4_kot3gLDff77oWEfz1-1Lg1kmsVU1Qg=

Karnataka Govt wants Trivandrum-Kasaragod HSR to be extended not only to Mangalore, but till UDUPI.

So this will clear the doubts of those who opined that Karnataka would not be interested in extending it till Mangalore.

Besides, the State government is also holding talks with the Kerala government for the extension of the planned HSRL line between Thiruvananthapuram and Kasargod, covering 560 km, up to Udupi.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/233687/state-persuades-centre-study-blore.html

^^^^^^

Thats a good move, though its should be done by Karnataka Govt as it passes thro' territory.....

If planned well, they can take this to Goa, eventually and ultimately to Mumbai. A Malabar-Konkan High Speed Connectivity will surely take this route to new heights.

Perhaps, if each state plans the line within its territory and later connect together, it will be more likely better than all state getting involved in one line at first stage. That would create lobbying and demand first phase elsewhere etc....

Tenders part of DPR:

Just curious y no topography survey for ernakulam to trivandrum? Due ti terrain difference?

Courtesy Gentem for digging this from the budget speach

High Speed Initiatives
90. Madam, we had decided to construct High Speed Passenger Rail corridors in the country for running trains at speed of 250-350 kmph. As decided earlier, pre-feasibility studies on six corridors have already been taken up. One more corridor to be studied this year is Delhi-Jaipur-Ajmer-Jodhpur. Study of Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor has been completed and we are working on finalisation of financing of this project. Government of Kerala is also pursuing a high speed corridor between Thiruvananthapuram to Kasargod. National High Speed Rail Authority is under formation. However, the high speed corridors are highly capital intensive and resource issues need to be addressed with innovative funding mechanism and significant government support to make them a reality. The cooperation of state governments is a precondition to the success of high speed rail initiatives.

Kerala Government allocates 50 Crore for preparatory works, land survey activities for Kerala HSR, in the currently presenting Kerala Budget at Niyamasabha.:banana::banana:

The Finance Minister said that, this Land acquisition works will be initiated the upcoming financial year and additional funds allocation would be made from general heads, when required.

50 crores vellathilayyi

50 crore out of 1lakh crore ~ 0%

For Finance minister, this amount is peanuts...kittiyal ooti allankil chatti..

Also no clarity in central rail budget on the earlier approved Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam-Thiruvananthapuram HSR whether upto Thrissur only or upto Tvm itself?

50 crore out of 1lakh crore ~ 0%

For Finance minister, this amount is peanuts...kittiyal ooti allankil chatti..

Also no clarity in central rail budget on the earlier approved Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam-Thiruvananthapuram HSR whether upto Thrissur only or upto Tvm itself?
If I remember correctly Kerala gov opted out of this center sponsored HSR. I think it will pass through CBE and may connect to the proposed Kerala hsr. The minister did mention about the Kerala HSR in the budget speech.

50 crore out of 1lakh crore ~ 0%

For Finance minister, this amount is peanuts...kittiyal ooti allankil chatti..

Also no clarity in central rail budget on the earlier approved Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam-Thiruvananthapuram HSR whether upto Thrissur only or upto Tvm itself?

Its just a beginning.... Probably for starting company, its initial capital or appointment of staff or payment or technical consultancy etc.... One must note, the KERALA HSR was directly ordered for its DPR to DMRC, none other by Prime Minister's Office. And they will submit only in Sept 2012... Only after that, other process will happen. Even DPR will study the funding route for GOK/GOI for the project.

The Central sponsored Southern HSR's study is currently done till as per original plans- Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Cochin-Trivandrum with a branch line from Bangalore-Mysore. Kerala have raised opinion that the Central HSR may be limited to Thrissur, as there is no point in two parallel HSRs to one stretch. Perhaps, after its DPR, Kerala will have more point to raise the same to ask Central Govt to provide amount meant for Cochin-Trivandrum line into Kerala HSR, which is coincidentally the first phase of Kerala HSR.

If so, I feel that plan is good, as otherwise if ever Central Govt starts Southern HSR, the priority and first phase will be concentrated on Chennai-Bangalore stretch, leaving Kerala dry. But this, equally works commence too for phase 1 of Kerala HSR.....

DMRC angu undakkikalayum.:bash:

Ennal kollam!

The Central sponsored Southern HSR's study is currently done till as per original plans- Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Cochin-Trivandrum with a branch line from Bangalore-Mysore.

It would have been better if it is Chennai-Bangalore-Mysore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam-Tvm..



Kerala have raised opinion that the Central HSR may be limited to Thrissur, as there is no point in two parallel HSRs to one stretch.

:sad2:. I feel the central HSR and state HSR allowed to conduct their own surveys unhindered and continue. Why to stop one for the sake of other?

Whynot Central HSR pass through eastern parts of Kerala including Sabarimala and State HSR through coastal parts of Kerala between Thrissur and Tvm..:D

You never know which one may come alive (considering both state and central govt. are weak in strength) and no idea how the new govt. in 2 years will like these projects or not?


if ever Central Govt starts Southern HSR, the priority and first phase will be concentrated on Chennai-Bangalore stretch, leaving Kerala dry. .

+1

Work has to start from either end of the project..

It would have been better if it is Chennai-Bangalore-Mysore-Coimbatore-Ernakulam-Tvm..

Would you like to explain the necessity of two HSR lines between Kochi-Trivandrum areas?

:sad2:. I feel the central HSR and state HSR allowed to conduct their own surveys unhindered and continue. Why to stop one for the sake of other?

No one stopped other... Both are running in parallel and it will happen. Kerala's call is to Central Govt to revise its original proposal to extent to Trivandrum. They want to limit to Thrissur and contribute remaining stretch as planned in form of Central stake in Kerala HSR.

Anyway surveys and feasibility studies are going on. In both cases, Japan is taking an extreme interest for drawing this line....

Whynot Central HSR pass through eastern parts of Kerala including Sabarimala and State HSR through coastal parts of Kerala between Thrissur and Tvm..:D

I am not an engineer.... But I don't think, its possible to draw lines to such a topography. Even one Sabari Line is lagging for ages.... Considering the hilly part of Travancore, is never a good idea, especially when very high costs are involved.... Moreover it can lead to objections from environmental ministry and many other bodies, being ecological sensitive areas.

Secondly, this is not a regular line to have stops for Mavelikara, Chengannur etc..... Once you leave Trivandrum, the next main stop is Kochi. The State plan is to have atleast 2 additional stops at Kollam and Kottayam in Kerala HSR, whereas Central HSR donot have any such plans.

If what I heard/understands is right, even for Kerala HSR, Kollam station will be opened only after the main line is stabilized with traffic....

In such a case, its irrelevant whether you have a line passing thro' coastal or hilly etc, as the prime intention is to connect major economic hubs like Trivandrum, Kochi, Kottayam, Thrissur, Kozhikode etc, not every stop here and there.....

You never know which one may come alive (considering both state and central govt. are weak in strength) and no idea how the new govt. in 2 years will like these projects or not?

In most of cases, no sensible national party will be against to such projects, as these are drivers of tommorrow's economy. Even Mamata won't be against to such.... Perhaps the only difference might come in form of priority.... If its BJP in centre after 2 years, they may give more priority for Mumbai-Ahmedabad line than Kerala.... Other than this, no one will stall the project...

Even in Kerala, its the LEFT who proposed this ambitious project, underlining the fact, its a project having more broader consensus.....

But in anyway, Kerala won't be as powerful as Chennai/Bangalore to get a priority over them (nor its not right to say so, as Chennai-BLR are two major growth hubs, so its a natural priority for them).... If Ali donot goes to mountain, the mountains has to come to Ali..... If Kerala has to grow, we have to leap, hence we need this project.

If the project works starts within 2 years, the irrespective who is in center, it will go on.... Without works, then priority will change. Thats why the important is to break the ground and start the works at the earilest.

Would you like to explain the necessity of two HSR lines between Kochi-Trivandrum areas?

Pls correct it as Thrissur-tvm..

See, If someone asks you what is the necessity of four international airports in a small state like Kerala, what would you say?

The fact that HSR is proposed in Kerala amply shows there is potential in the state from tourists, NRIs, Business people etc. Whether we need one or two HSR in parallel is entirely upto GoK/GoI...

Kerala's call is to Central Govt to revise its original proposal to extent to Trivandrum. They want to limit to Thrissur and contribute remaining stretch as planned in form of Central stake in Kerala

This is where I have reservation. Why does Gok want GoI to stop its work at Thrissur.. let them continue their work till Tvm..and let GoK also continue with their work as proposed..


Considering the hilly part of Travancore, is never a good idea, especially when very high costs are involved.... Moreover it can lead to objections from environmental ministry and many other bodies, being ecological sensitive areas.

Ankamali-Sabari-Punalur-Tvm is not going through any forests or places where clearances needed.


Secondly, this is not a regular line to have stops for Mavelikara, Chengannur etc..... Once you leave Trivandrum, the next main stop is Kochi. The State plan is to have atleast 2 additional stops at Kollam and Kottayam in Kerala HSR, whereas Central HSR donot have any such plans.



Precisely why I said let both GoI/GoK continue with their work. GoI is more interested to connect the country with stops atChennai, Bangalore, Mysore,Coimbatore, Ernakulam &Tvm only whereas Kerala HSR plans to connect all district HQs in Kerala enroute which may be slower version or different type of rail altogether....:)

Pls correct it as Thrissur-tvm..

See, If someone asks you what is the necessity of four international airports in a small state like Kerala, what would you say?

The fact that HSR is proposed in Kerala amply shows there is potential in the state from tourists, NRIs, Business people etc. Whether we need one or two HSR in parallel is entirely upto GoK/GoI...



This is where I have reservation. Why does Gok want GoI to stop its work at Thrissur.. let them continue their work till Tvm..and let GoK also continue with their work as proposed..




Ankamali-Sabari-Punalur-Tvm is not going through any forests or places where clearances needed.



Precisely why I said let both GoI/GoK continue with their work. GoI is more interested to connect the country with stops atChennai, Bangalore, Mysore,Coimbatore, Ernakulam &Tvm only whereas Kerala HSR plans to connect all district HQs in Kerala enroute which may be slower version or different type of rail altogether....:)

There is another way to plan around the slow and fast tracks. Have a double track all through and have seprate rails to the station with fast merging back to the main line, this will avoid unnecessary expenditure and also you can have as many stations as you want which will not impact the main line traffic

The main line can be funded by central govt and station spurs can be funded by state. State can have as many stations as they want. Station spurs also improves the safety aspect as you do not need a HS train passign thru a small station at high speed

Now since Dinesh Trivedi is replaced by a joker as rail minister, there is no hope for HSR under IR. So the only hope for HSR is Kerala HSR. Lets support it for the future of good rail infra in India.

There is another way to plan around the slow and fast tracks. Have a double track all through and have seprate rails to the station with fast merging back to the main line, this will avoid unnecessary expenditure and also you can have as many stations as you want which will not impact the main line traffic

Good idea if both are similar.. But what If one is standard gauge and other is maglev..?

Now since Dinesh Trivedi is replaced by a joker as rail minister, there is no hope for HSR under IR. So the only hope for HSR is Kerala HSR.

Iam not sure about both considering the poor financial status Railway and GoK is in.. Didi was interested in HSR when she was there..so I guess her chamcha also have to be..:)

Any news on this?

DMRC studies for Kerala HSR. (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com//articleshow/12611676.cms)

Delhi Metro is doing a detailed project report for the Kerala government on the possibility of running high speed trains in the state, a senior official said today.

"A detailed project is going on by DMRC. After the project report is ready, then it will be taken to the government of India," former Delhi Metro chief E Sreedharan told reporters here on the sidelines of a function here.

"It will be a joint effort by the Government of India and Kerala together for executing the project, with the money will have to come from either Japan or somewhere," he said.

Asked whether high speed trains in India is possible with railway tracks running very close to human habitat in many villages, he said, "Yes, it is possible, because these trains will be either elevated or underground."

^^ DMRC and High-speed ? They would rather study n work on other metro projects in the country !

Yes, it is possible, because these trains will be either elevated or underground."

:cheers:

^^ DMRC and High-speed ? They would rather study n work on other metro projects in the country !

Pls check the back pages.

The Prime Minister after a meeting with Planning Commission Vice Chairman, Railway Board Chairman and Kerala HSR Officials, have entrusted DMRC to prepare the DPR and submit to central cabinet by Sept. So they are doing the study.... They too have done the initial pre-feasibility study.

NRI funding sought for Kerala high-speed rail (http://www.emirates247.com/crime/world/nri-funding-sought-for-kerala-high-speed-rail-2012-04-20-1.454797)
The Kerala High Speed Rail Corporation and Infrastructures Kerala Limited (Inkel) are wooing non-resident Indian investors to participate in the multi-million dollar High Speed Railway Corridor project linking the northern and southern parts of Kerala to ease train travel from the state capital Thiruvananthapuram to Kasargod and Mangalore.

T Balakrishnan, chairman and managing director of Kerala High Speed Rail Corporation Ltd, and managing director of Infrastructures Kerala Ltd, said he expects NRIs and high net worth Indian businessmen in the Gulf to participate in the project.

The proposed 650 km high speed railway across many districts of Kerala and the neighbouring Karnataka state is planned to be funded by private or foreign investors. While it takes more than 10 hours using the existing railway network to reach Kasargod from Tiruvananthapuram, with high-speed rail, the distance will be covered in three and a half hours.


“The High Speed Railway Corridor is a dream project of Kerala which cannot be completed with government funding. The total cost of the project will be about Rs1,180 billion and it will be sought mainly from international funding agencies,” said Mr Balakrishnan.

He said, given the experience of completing major infrastructure projects like Nedumbassery airport with NRI funding, the rail project is a good investment opportunity. There will be stops at major district headquarters and long term plan is to link the railway line to Udupi and Mangalore in Karnataka.


“The ‘Build Operate and Transfer’ option is also not ruled out. High speed railway will be mainly for faster passenger movement from Thiruvananthapuram to Kasargode. The train is expected to travel at 350 km per hour on an elevated rail line that would reduce the quantity of land needed for the project. In major cities, the train will be moving through tunnels.”

Mr Balakrishnan was in Dubai as part of MACE (Mar Athanasius College of Engineering) Global Meet at Dubai.


“Kerala’s economy is growing faster than the national economy. There are six similar high speed railway projects in India. Inkel has been formed as a public- private partnership firm to utilise the expertise and finances of overseas Keralites for such projects,” he said.

He added a container freight station is also coming up at Kochi. He said the investment climate in Kerala had improved and urged Indian engineers and entrepreneurs working in the UAE and other Gulf countries to take part in the high speed rail project that could dramatically change the passenger travel scene in Kerala.

He added that investors from the UAE had invested in major projects in Kerala. He said a major highway corridor project linking Coimbatore with Kochi is planned. “The size of the highway corridor project is almost similar to the high speed railway project. Its completion will ease container movement from Kochi and Coimbatore and back,” he added.

More than 2weeks passed and no updates ?

More than 2weeks passed and no updates ?
This is a long term project planned for 2025, don't expect weekly or even monthly updates. The feasibility report itself isn't ready, AFAIK.

Work on Kerala high-speed rail to begin by next April: Chandy (http://ibnlive.in.com/generalnewsfeed/news/work-on-kerala-highspeed-rail-to-begin-by-next-april-chandy/998642.html)

Kerala Chief Minister Oommen Chandy today said work on the state's ambitious high speed rail corridor project, involving an investment of a whopping Rs 1.18 trillion, will begin from April next year. The first phase of the project, connecting the state capital with Kochi, will be hopefully be over by March 2018, he said. "We are hopeful of beginning construction work on this big-ticket project by April 2013 and the first phase, linking political capital Thiruvananthapuram with the commercial hub Kochi will be over by March 2018. This stretch will cost around Rs 40,000 crore, excluding the land cost, which comes at a big premium in the state," Chandy told reporters here. He was here to launch the roadshow to showcase the forthcoming 'Emerging Kerala 2012' global investor meet.

The biennial Emerging Kerala 2012, to be held from September 12 to 14 in Kochi, seeks to review Kerala's hugely successful social development model to see how it can be leveraged to achieve sustainable economic growth.

The second phase of the Rs 1.18-trillion high speed rail corridor will connect Kochi with Udupi in Karnataka and is expected to be over by March 2020, Kerala High Speed Rail Corporation chairman and managing director T Balakrishnan said. The project will be equally owned by the state and the Centre, Balakrishnan said, adding that the Mangalore-Udupi sector will be owned by Karnataka and the Centre. When asked about the funding, Chandy told PTI that 80 per cent of cost will be debt-funded and he is keen on getting Japanese developmental fund under the JICA (Japanese International Cooperation Agency) soft loan route. On whether he is open to parting some equity with the Japanese in the project for which Japanese technology will be used, Chandy said, "A call on that will have to be taken at the policy level. As of now, it will be a 50:50 venture between the state and the Centre."

AFAIK, initial Kerala HSR proposal was upto Kasaragod only. Iam not sure whether Kerala HSR funding 100% of Kasaragod-Mangalore stretch (Karnataka) also..

Similar to Mangalore/Udupi included in Kerala HSR, border districts of Kanyakumari/Tiruchendur & Coimbatore/Palani (via Palakkad) may be included with TN Govt. backing..:)

AFAIK, initial Kerala HSR proposal was upto Kasaragod only. Iam not sure whether Kerala HSR funding 100% of Kasaragod-Mangalore stretch (Karnataka) also..

Similar to Mangalore/Udupi included in Kerala HSR, border districts of Kanyakumari/Tiruchendur & Coimbatore/Palani (via Palakkad) may be included with TN Govt. backing..:)

Kerala HSR is a generic term, to denote the rail proposed by Kerala Govt, funded outside IR sponsored NHSR scheme....

Kerala's funding into this project shall strictly limit between Trivandrum-Kasargod stretch... The project consultants DMRC has purposed for extending to Mangalore and later to Udipi, which anyway has nothing from Kerala to fund so. The stretch from Kasargod to Mangalore or Udupi is to be funded by Karnataka... How can Kerala fund for a project inside Karnataka's territory?

It could be in form of Karnataka taking equity in the company or Karnataka starting a new company and putting up extension from Kasargod.

As far as Coimbatore is concerned, the IR's NHSRA has given its alignment Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Kochi-Trivandrum.

So Coimbatore will anyway direct connected to Kerala.... I don't think Palakkad requires a HSR station, especially when Coimbatore is just 48 Kms away from it.....

Adding more and more stations, loses the relevance of HSR itself.... Secondly its more likely, none of the stations comes up in City centre.... So probably it must in points accessible for people in the region... Not just CBD purposes.

Kerala High Speed Railway Corporation Limited launched its own site (http://khsrcl.com/about.aspx).

The state government has formed a new public limited company - Kerala High Speed Rail Corporation Ltd - to implement a high speed rail network. The 630-km network will connect Thiruvananthapuram with Mangalore. The Kerala State Industrial Development Corporation (KSIDC) has been appointed the nodal agency to develop the project, and Delhi Metro Rail Corporation (DMRC) has been assigned with a pre-feasibility study.
The new company was formed on the basis of a pre-feasibility report submitted by DMRC. Further technical studies and economic evaluation are currently being planned. The proposed high speed corridor will have two parallel tracks in the standard gauge system as in the Delhi Metro Rail. The high speed corridor will have an alignment independent of the existing alignment of the Indian Railways.

The project will be implemented as a joint venture between the state government and a private partner which will be selected at a later stage. T Balakrishnan, Additional Chief Secretary (Industry and Commerce), Alkesh Kumar Sharma, Managing Director KSIDC, and T P Thomas Kutty, Executive Director, KSIDC, are the first directors of the new company. The company will undertake detailed feasibility report for the project and identify suitable rail technology to implement the high speed corridor. Steps have also been initiated for the release of a notification for the acquisition of land needed to implement the project. The width of the land required to be acquired for the rail corridor is 13 metres. The high speed corridor will use a greenfield route to keep the rehabilitation task to the minimum

Route Map

http://khsrcl.com/images/route_map.JPG

Mohammed, will HSR if it happens erase the rural urban divides in Kerala?

Mohammed, will HSR if it happens erase the rural urban divides in Kerala?

Well, Kerala is one of the very few states in the country with lowest Urban-Rural divide..... Its equally one of most fastest urbanizing state....

Any person who travels Kerala, can feel, its almost a continuous semi-urban spread thro' out the coastal side.. Almost every kind of urban facility is uniformly spread.... Barring hilly districts like Idukki, Pathanamthitta, Wayanad and some parts of Kasargod, I don't think there is any typical rural area as we define in Indian context.

HSR, to one extend will fasten the connectivity between major cities and enable more business opportunities....

comicbliss , kerela has high literacy rates (92%)so I think urban-rural divide might not be very huge

In that case HSR could erase whatever little divide there is.

A dream is shaping up well :banana::banana:

Kerala's funding into this project shall strictly limit between Trivandrum-Kasargod stretch... The project consultants DMRC has purposed for extending to Mangalore and later to Udipi, which anyway has nothing from Kerala to fund so. The stretch from Kasargod to Mangalore or Udupi is to be funded by Karnataka... How can Kerala fund for a project inside Karnataka's territory?

From news reports, I dont think so... Mangalore-Udupi reportedly funded by Karnataka Govt. but no mention of Kasaragod-Mangalore stretch, seems like latter is also going to be funded by Kerala HSR...Check out this report
http://www.business-standard.com/generalnews/news/workkerala-high-speed-rail-to-begin-by-next-april-chandy/8431/
Work on Kerala high-speed rail to begin by next April: Chandy|Mumbai May 14, 2012
The second phase of the Rs 1.18-trillion high speed rail corridor will connect Kochi with Udupi in Karnataka and is expected to be over by March 2020, Kerala High Speed Rail Corporation chairman and managing director T Balakrishnan said.
The project will be equally owned by the state and the Centre, Balakrishnan said, adding that the Mangalore-Udupi sector will be owned by Karnataka and the Centre.
========================================

It could be in form of Karnataka taking equity in the company or Karnataka starting a new company and putting up extension from Kasargod.

In former case, why not include TN also as stake holder in Kerala HSR similar to Karnataka?

In latter case, why DMRC not asking TN Govt. (DMRC already contacted them for Chennai monorail) for extensions from Kerala side to TN viz. Palakkad-Coimbatore-Palani and Tvm-Kanyakumari-Tiruchendur stretches similar to their discussions with Karnataka Govt.?

As far as Coimbatore is concerned, the IR's NHSRA has given its alignment Chennai-Bangalore-Coimbatore-Kochi-Trivandrum. So Coimbatore will anyway direct connected to Kerala.... I don't think Palakkad requires a HSR station, especially when Coimbatore is just 48 Kms away from it.....

Palakkad is an important growing industrial centre and are you asking them to depend on NHSRA @ Coimbatore ..? I dont think it is fair when Kerala HSR is even funding Kasaragod-Mangalore stretch. Instead why not Kerala HSR touch Palakkad with extension to Coimbatore/Palani....:)

Yes, Coimbatore is linked with Kerala in NHSRA but the rail gauges may be different from Kerala HSR, who knows? NHSRA also may link Mangalore with Goa/Mumbai in future, does that mean Kerala HSR should not go for Kasaragod-Mangalore-Udupi stretch..?

Interview with D.V. Sadananda Gowda, CM Karnataka (http://www.livemint.com/2012/05/20215710/Political-turmoil-in-Karnataka.html?atype=tp)
What about the high-speed rail link from Kerala to Karnataka? Is the Karnataka government interested?

We are really interested. Initially, the proposal was to build a high-speed rail between Kochi and Mangalore, but we thought it should be extended up to Udupi. It will be under PPP and the Karnataka government will take the lead in implementing the project.

Wondering why not Karnataka interested upto Karwar/Goa but only upto Udupi..?

BTW, In the below report prioritising Karnataka HSR routes, there is no mention at all of Kasaragod-Mangalore/Udupi route..
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/cities/bengaluru/high-speed-rail-links-gim-agenda-728

Karwar is a very hilly district no much population when compared to mangalore and udupi districts both of which are like single city

Ok, understand. So I guess the only option left is for NHSRA to take up Mangalore-Goa-Mumbai corridor in future..

Bullet train service in Kerala by 2021 likely (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kanpur/Bullet-train-service-in-Kerala-by-2021-likely/articleshow/13756065.cms)

Kerala will become first state in the country where the bullet train capable of running at a speed of 350 km/hour would be introduced. This high speed train would run on a 560-km-long stretch between Trivandrum and Kasaragod. The project would be a joint initiative of Kerala and the Union government and carried out under the guidance of E Shreedharan, principal adviser, Delhi Metro Rail Corporation.

Also known as Metro Man, Shreedharan had come to IIT-Kanpur as the chief guest on its 44th convocation ceremony. Answering a question, he said that the bullet train will run between Trivandrum and Kasaragod in Kerala by 2021. "We will be introducing bullet train in India on the pattern of Japan. The Japanese technology would be introduced. The feasibility report for launching the train in Kerala has already been prepared.

http://64.19.142.11/epaper.mathrubhumi.com/epaperimages/3062012/3062012-md-th-17/45114812.JPG


First survey updates
- HSR will have 9 stations including Trivandrum, Cochin and Calicut (Other stations being Kollam, Kottayam, THrissur, Kannur, Kasargod and a stop in Malappuram district)
- Total distance will be 580 km
- Time taken to reach Cochin from Trivandrum will be 1 hour and Trivandrum - Kasargod will take 3 hours
- Railway line will pass through Mannuthy in Thrissur District

http://64.19.142.11/epaper.mathrubhumi.com/epaperimages/3062012/3062012-md-th-17/45114812.JPG


First survey updates
- HSR will have 9 stations including Trivandrum, Cochin and Calicut (Other stations being Kollam, Kottayam, THrissur, Kannur, Kasargod and a stop in Malappuram district)
- Total distance will be 580 km
- Time taken to reach Cochin from Trivandrum will be 1 hour and Trivandrum - Kasargod will take 3 hours
- Railway line will pass through Mannuthy in Thrissur District

Not only that, the thrissur station will be at Mannuthy and Ernakulam station will be at Vyttila.:cheers:

^^

Also a station proposed near Cochin Airport which is 35km away from proposed main station (Vytila) in Kochi.

Karwar is a very hilly district no much population when compared to mangalore and udupi districts both of which are like single city

Also there is no much value addition for Karnataka until these cities are connected to the capital -Blr ( I might be wrong)
Also can someone tell me if these trains are for cargo also?

Also there is no much value addition for Karnataka until these cities are connected to the capital -Blr ( I might be wrong)
Also can someone tell me if these trains are for cargo also?

Don't be under assumption that, if cities in one state has to develop, only link with capital can make so.....

Mangalore is growing, under its own right as a coastal city in Karnataka. Its making its own identity. Linkage with any other Indian city will surely help Mangalore to grow better. Its not Bangalore, the only catalyst for Mangalore's growth.

Definitely, Kerala has a strong role for shaping Mangalore. Its closeness to Kerala, surely bring better development for Konkan region as whole.

Karnataka get value addition, when more cities develop, like Hubli, Mangalore, Karwar, Belguam etc. More business and connectivity options will enlarge the cities and more opporunities will surely prosper Karnataka. Don't believe, only Blore can bring in glory to Karnataka.

Ofcourse, no one is saying, there should be no connectivity to BLR. Its a metropolis and surely connection is required. But it should mean, only BLR should get first..... Why not Mangalore or Karwar?

----------------------------

Well, as of now, these HSR trains is planned as pure Passenger trains.

Also there is no much value addition for Karnataka until these cities are connected to the capital -Blr ( I might be wrong)
Also can someone tell me if these trains are for cargo also?

True,bangalore-mangalore connectivity is what will make Mangalore grow by leaps and bounds.Much of our products are shipped through chennai port,time to make use of our own port.GOK must not get into such excercise of HSRL etc.Improve that shiradi ghat by boring tunnels and bring down connectivity time to bangalore,you will see the difference.Mangalore is getting industrialized day by day.

A nice link to Bangalore will do the trick.Just open google earth and check for yourself Mangalore-Bangalore-Chennai all lie in a straight horizontal line :)

Bangalore-chennai will anyway see good connectivity,similarly Bangalore-Mangalore should get one.

Bangalore-Hassan is four laned,I want GOK to first invest in high return projects like Hassan-Mangalore 4 laning/tunneling rather than HSRL to other T2 cities.

Mysore-Bangalore-Hassan-Mangalore quadrilateral is the growth engine of south karnataka with a nice port city :happy:

First priority has to be better connectivity to State capital, socially and economically it is beneficial.

There is a steep ghat section between Mangalore and Bangalore. Ordinary railway line itself have speed restriction. HSR is not possible in that route. Similarly Mangalore-Goa-Mumbai HSR is impossible. Konkan railway itself was a big challenge. Land slide occurs like every year. There is no question of HSR in a route where there is speed restriction for normal trains during monsoon.

There is a steep ghat section between Mangalore and Bangalore. Ordinary railway line itself have speed restriction. HSR is not possible in that route. Similarly Mangalore-Goa-Mumbai HSR is impossible. Konkan railway itself was a big challenge. Land slide occurs like every year. There is no question of HSR in a route where there is speed restriction for normal trains during monsoon.

Not talking about HSR between Mangalore-bangalore,talking about that JICA tunnel project roadways. Forget HSR,these projects are not viable in Indian context.

^^^^

Adding to that, The HSRL from Bangalore to Mysore needs to be extended to Mangalore Via Madikeri, Sulya .

^^^^

Adding to that, The HSRL from Bangalore to Mysore needs to be extended to Mangalore Via Madikeri, Sulya .

Let them complete that Double track + electrification guruvae.Forget the rest. :) BMIC as per SC should happen,that will be much entertaining than HSR,believe me.But don't ask me when that will happen.

http://epaper.mathrubhumi.com/epaperimages/3062012/3062012-md-th-17/45114812.JPG

The Link with Chekuthan made became broken. Hence making the correct link.

------

Akash.... Whether Mangalore comes in picture or not, is something GOKarnataka has to decide.

For GOKerala, the project is Trivandrum-Kasargod HSR, aiming to transform Kerala into one Mega city and uniform accessibility between prime Kerala cities. This is in accordance to Kerala's policy of equitable growth and decentralization, which means, we are going to have 9 equal mid-sized, fairly distributed and faster/easy accessibility between Kerala cities.

Its DMRC's vision to have a line extension to Karnataka. As for any person of common sense, Mangalore, definitely get an edge to Kerala's advantage for a linkage, which later can be extended to Mumbai and further link to DMIC.

So, the priority for developing a Trans-Kerala line. Extensions are later part....

Not talking about HSR between Mangalore-bangalore,talking about that JICA tunnel project roadways. Forget HSR,these projects are not viable in Indian context.

In 1995, PPP itself was out of Indian Context and PPP in Airport was IMPOSSIBLE.... But it was made possible in 1999 thro' CIAL and today all Indian Airports wants who is best in PPP Airport model.

Same in this case of HSR.... Everything is IMPOSSIBLE before starting.... Even the first train itself was impossible in 1857. Only determination made it possible. With a highly determined man like E.Sreedharan and ambitious mindset of OC along with support of all political parties, surely I believe, this is going to be possible and much like CIAL, all other states will surely later fighting for better PPP model in HSR......

^^^^

Kerala's high speed rail project to be on track soon

Thiruvananthapuram: Billed as the biggest and most expensive infrastructure projects conceived by Kerala, a high speed rail corridor for India's first bullet train is one of the mega projects the state plans to implement.
On completion, it will enable one travel from Kerala's capital Thiruvananthapuram to the state's northern most point Kasaragod in 142 minutes, covering a distance of 526 km.
The project may sound unbelievable, especially in the case of Kerala lagging in industry and infrastructure development for decades.

http://static.ibnlive.in.com/ibnlive/pix/sitepix/06_2012/tokyo-metro-train630.jpg

Estimated to cost Rs 1,18,000 crore on completion, the first phase is expected to cost Rs 43,000 crore. It will also be showcased in 'Emerging Kerala Global Connect' at Kochi from September 12-14.
"If all preparatory works progress on schedule and the project starts by April 2013 as planned, the first phase is expected to be completed in five years and the second in the following two years. The whole project should be complete by 2020," said T Balakrishnan, CMD, Kerala High Speed Rail Corporation Ltd(KHSRCL).
"Work of drawing up the Detailed Project Report is now on.
Alignment study/survey has started; preparatory work on land acquisition has also begun.
Recruitment of key personnel has begun," Balakrishnan,a former bureaucrat, told PTI.
Nine stations are proposed initially - Thiruvananthapuram, Kollam, Kottayam, Ernakulam, Thrissur, Kozhikode, Kannur Kasaragod and in the final stretch to Mangalore in Karnataka.
Three more at Chengannur, Tirur and Thalassery, would come up at a later stage.
The total corridor length (upto Mangalore) would be around 571 km and it will have two parallel tracks each in standard gauge systems, independent of existing rail network in Kerala.
The government has appointed Kerala State Industrial Development Corporation as the nodal agency for the project, which could transform lives and economy by facilitating hassle free movement between cities and towns in God s own country.
"A public transport system of this dimension has so many advantages. Most important,it will help reduce traffic density and improve road safety," said KSIDC Managing Director Alkesh Sharma.
"If you look at it as a purely financial project it may not sound viable since the financial rate of return is estimated at around 5.2 per cent. But it becomes viable and massively so, as an economic project.A high speed rail network covering India can boost economic growth rate by upto 1.5 per cent and then there will be incremental growth as distances come down," Balakrishnan said.
The Delhi Metro Rail Corporation has prepared the pre-feasibility study and meeting at the PMO level has given the green signal to all departments concerned. An all-party meeting at the state-level to form a consensus has been very positive.
"We have started discussing funding options with various agencies, including Japan's JICA and ADB. It's in the early stages and nothing has been finalized yet. However, during the Emerging Kerala event, we expect a lot of international companies and financing agencies to take part. The project will be discussed with them and more options may emerge from these discussions," said the KHSRCL CMD.
The DMRC recommended model in the feasibility report is a Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) owned by the Central and Kerala governments with Japanese participation. "But a final decision on this has not been taken yet and the government is keeping all options open, including PPP and hybrid models," he said.
On the technology, he said it was not an issue at all as that was already available worldwide.
If we go by the DMRC recommendation, we can get it from Japan as a whole package, technology, funding, implementation everything. But it is also available elsewhere, in Europe, Korea and even in China, although the Chinese technology has not been fully tested and proven," he said.
About the Karnataka government's response to the project which extends to Mangalore, he said they had welcomed it.
"Karnataka actually wants it to be extended to Udupi, thinking it will attract greater traffic from Kerala, especially as a pilgrimage centre," he added.

source-http://ibnlive.in.com/news/keralas-high-speed-rail-project-to-be-on-track-soon/269095-62-133.html

In-principle approval for High Speed Rail Corridor: CM (http://www.keralacm.gov.in/index.php/component/content/article/34-frontslider/915-in-principle-approval-for-high-speed-rail-corridor-cm)
New Delhi 03-07-2012: CM today said that the Centre has given In-principle approval for the High Speed Rail Corridor. He said this after the meeting with Prime Minister. CM added that he has pressed for the approval of a special financial package for the state.

Representation regarding various needs of the state was given to PM. Classical language status for Malayalam, regulating the price of fertilizer, changes in the education loan scheme are some of the matters pointed out in the representation. CM said that the PM has agreed to the needs of the state in a positive manner.

CM said that he has brought the attention of Central Ministers Gulam Nabi Azad, Kapil Sibal, Sharad Pawar, K V Thomas and Vayalar Ravi the needs of the state. Financial assistance to endosulfan victims, regulating the prices of medicines, release of malayalees captured by Somalian pirates were some of the major problems pointed out by the state.

^^^^^^

If works of Kerala HSR Phase 1 goes along with Kochi Metro, I believe by 2016, we can travel straight from Aluva to Trivandrum, with an interchange only at Vytilla Mobility Hub, all in just 1.5 hours.

Hoping for starting works of this mega project too.....

^^^^^^

If works of Kerala HSR Phase 1 goes along with Kochi Metro, I believe by 2016, we can travel straight from Aluva to Trivandrum, with an interchange only at Vytilla Mobility Hub, all in just 1.5 hours.

Hoping for starting works of this mega project too.....

Mohammed, there will be a lot of people who may not want to see this project succeed. Also the Railways may at any time start interfering and say the Kerala govt is coming on their turf. There will be those who say "this project is a big fraud" without even knowing its basic features. There will be "Experts" who say "HSRL is not needed for Kerala". How will the Govt of Kerala tackle these naysayers? :ohno: :bash: Any idea?

^^^^^^

If works of Kerala HSR Phase 1 goes along with Kochi Metro, I believe by 2016, we can travel straight from Aluva to Trivandrum, with an interchange only at Vytilla Mobility Hub, all in just 1.5 hours.

Hoping for starting works of this mega project too.....

Also 100% airways will not let this project sail smooth...for example bangalore-mangalore railway line was delayed badly as the bus transportation department bribed the railways and almost freezed the project...so airways already facing crisis and loss would not bear further losses but would bribe the railways and cause bad delays...unless a ppp model is chosen and a good government implements this project its very difficult to take shape...remember this is India and not China where if government decides to build they will build at any cost....

Kerala high-speed rail project to be on track soon
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/industry-and-economy/logistics/article3599100.ece?ref=wl_industry-and-economy

It will enable travel from Thiruvananthapuram to the State’s northern most point Kasaragod in 142 minutes, covering 526 km.

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM, JULY 3:
Billed as the biggest and most expensive infrastructure projects conceived by Kerala, a high-speed rail corridor for India’s first bullet train is one of the mega projects the State plans to implement.

On completion, it will enable one travel from the State capital Thiruvananthapuram to the State’s northern most point Kasaragod in 142 minutes, covering a distance of 526 km.

The project may sound unbelievable, especially in the case of Kerala lagging in industry and infrastructure development for decades.

COST ESTIMATES

Estimated to cost Rs 1,18,000 crore on completion, the first phase is expected to cost Rs 43,000 crore. It will also be showcased in ‘Emerging Kerala Global Connect’ at Kochi on September 12-14.

“If all preparatory works progress on schedule and the project starts by April 2013 as planned, the first phase is expected to be completed in five years and the second in the following two years. The whole project should be complete by 2020,” said Mr T. Balakrishnan, CMD, Kerala High Speed Rail Corporation Ltd (KHSRCL).

“Work of drawing up the Detailed Project Report is now on. Alignment study/survey has started; preparatory work on land acquisition has also begun. Recruitment of key personnel has begun,” Mr Balakrishnan, a former bureaucrat, told PTI.

Nine stations are proposed initially – Thiruvananthapuram, Kollam, Kottayam, Ernakulam, Thrissur, Kozhi- kode, Kannur Kasaragod and in the final stretch to Mangalore in Karnataka.

Three more at Chengannur, Tirur and Thalassery, will come up at a later stage.

The total corridor length (up to Mangalore) will be 571 km and it will have two parallel tracks each in standard gauge systems, independent of existing rail network in Kerala.

NODAL AGENCY

The government has appointed Kerala State Industrial Development Corporation as the nodal agency for the project, which could transform lives and economy by facilitating hassle-free movement between cities and towns in 'God’s own country.' “A public transport system of this dimension has so many advantages. Most important, it will help reduce traffic density and improve road safety,” said the KSIDC managing director, Mr Alkesh Sharma.

“If you look at it as a purely financial project it may not sound viable since the financial rate of return is estimated at around 5.2 per cent. But it becomes viable and massively so, as an economic project. A high speed rail network covering India can boost economic growth rate by up to 1.5 per cent and then there will be incremental growth as distances come down,” Mr Balakrishnan said.

PRE-FEASIBILITY STUDY

The Delhi Metro Rail Corporation has prepared the pre-feasibility study and meeting at the PMO level has given the green signal to all departments concerned. An all-party meeting at the State level to form a consensus has been very positive.

“We have started discussing funding options with various agencies, including Japan’s JICA and ADB. It’s in the early stages and nothing has been finalized yet. However, during the Emerging Kerala event, we expect a lot of international companies and financing agencies to take part.The project will be discussed with them and more options may emerge from these discussions,” Mr Balakrishnan said.

The DMRC recommended model in the feasibility report is a Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) owned by the Centre and State government with Japanese participation. “But a final decision on this has not been taken yet and the government is keeping all options open, including PPP and hybrid models,” he said.

On the technology, he said it was not an issue at all as that was already available worldwide.

Also 100% airways will not let this project sail smooth...for example bangalore-mangalore railway line was delayed badly as the bus transportation department bribed the railways and almost freezed the project...so airways already facing crisis and loss would not bear further losses but would bribe the railways and cause bad delays...

It is foolishness to link ' Airlines' ( not Airways) in this. There is no Airline connection between Trivandrum- Kollam, Kottayam- Thrissur etc.

Karnataka's case is different. It has one of the lowest % of fully double & electrified rail lines; some 4-5 % only, the connection towards south towards TN & Kerala while Kerala is progressing towards almost 100%. In the case of KA there is no 'collective bargaining' or centres which can exert pressure/ lobby for. The politicians are more accountable to their own pockets only whereas in Kerala things are much better. Recently railways announced a change in timings for the SBC- KCVL train, while making it daily. But on the vociferous protests, dharnas et by Malayalee Associations it was rolled back.

A single step is the beginning for a giant leap to the future. Unless you dream/ plan for future, nothing can happen. I never thought TVM roads would become world class until TCRIP. A road project is not an HSR, but it is the signs of things to watch for. CIAL, KIAL etc are other examples. Of course there would be lot of issues with land acquisition and the like. You cannot win a war without attempting it.

Most favourable point about the project is that there is consensus among political parties. Both LDF and UDF supports the project. Only problem will be land acquisition. That will be a major problem though.

Its good that now Kerala HSR is getting support from everywhere. Everyone is fed up of IR and its way of project execution. Supply side bottlenecks are creating huge problem for travellers acroos the country. These fools are only going after touts in place of going for capacity expansion. Every option of financing shall be looked into. The adamant approach of Sreedharan against PPP may delay the project as happened with Kochi Metro.

No one will get hurt except Indian railways. So there will be hardly any "experts" and lobbies to oppose this project.

No one will get hurt except Indian railways. So there will be hardly any "experts" and lobbies to oppose this project.

You forgot about Solidarity and similar 'movements' who are the 'experts' in land acquisition. When a protest starts against LA all the local leaders irrespective of their political parties will come to support. They can't loose their votes. ;)

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9924/hsrkk0507.jpg

Expected time taken to travel from Trivandrum to:

Kollam - 15 mins
Ernakulam - 53 mins
Thrissur - 72 mins
Kozhikode - 98 mins
Kannur - 119 mins
Kasaragod - 142 mins

Other stations are proposed at Kollam & Kottayam. The station at Kollam is proposed near Travancore Medical College near Mevaram.

Source: Kaumudi

The biggest advantage with KHSR:
>>> Sreedharan: because he can get expertize of DMRC to complete DPR fast and ensure political concenssus.
The biggest disadvantage with KHSR:
>>> Sreedharan: because of his adamant approach against any kind of private participation may force GoK to go for public funding thus delaying the projcet by years and being shelved in the end.

The biggest advantage with KHSR:
>>> Sreedharan: because he can get expertize of DMRC to complete DPR fast and ensure political concenssus.
The biggest disadvantage with KHSR:
>>> Sreedharan: because of his adamant approach against any kind of private participation may force GoK to go for public funding thus delaying the projcet by years and being shelved in the end.

E.Sreedharan's is against Corporate PPPs where one corporate takes the entire project. Generally, most of Keralites are too against similar one single corporate entity projects, especially when it involves higher costs.

Whereas the PPP model which GOK is proposing is similar CIAL, KIAL etc. The govt will collects funds from public, make public particularly NRKs are shareholders. Equally a consortium of companies will also take a stake in the the project which includes banks and financial institutions. The single largest stakeholder shall be GOK and GOI in the project and a govt official will be managing the company with Chief Minister as Ex-offico Chairman and 2 Ministers in the directorial board.

I don't think E.Sreedharan will have any objection into the such sort of PPP, as its govt and govt allied agencies in primary roles, particularly decision making positions. CIAL is a good example. When other PPP airports of India wants to increase UDF and other charges, CIAL is the only one to abolish it as well as constantly reducing other charges, still making sustainable profits.

There are huge wealth sources among NRKs who have little sources to invest. Such mega projects are really worthy to invest and being Govt as promoter, there could be many to invest..... The PPP model which Kerala proposes is totally different from regular PPP style from other states, where one single company decides and dictates with no or little govt interference.

^^^^^^
Well, in this case Japan has already announced its intention to fund the project, if the full technology is brought from them.... Kerala has replied to Japan and JICA that they are looking upto 44% of funding support. Indian Govt will support to around 15% stake and remaining Kerala can raise thro' sale of bonds, NRK investments and other means.

You forgot about Solidarity and similar 'movements' who are the 'experts' in land acquisition. When a protest starts against LA all the local leaders irrespective of their political parties will come to support. They can't loose their votes. ;)

The LA for this project is negligible. Only 552 Hectares of land (1320 acres) is required, throughout length of Kerala. At every place, only less than 15 M width of land. A fully elevated/underground system and greenfield alignment, surely reduces number of displacements. The maximum estimate is less than 4200 families, across a very thickly populated state like Kerala, which is quite reasonable and okay.

The GOK's current policy of full settlement and other benefits surely make less opposition, compared to past. Then still we have some neerkooli parties and fake environmentalists to object.... After all, no ship ever sailed smoothly... So thats okay to deal with........

^^^^^^
Well, in this case Japan has already announced its intention to fund the project, if the full technology is brought from them.... Kerala has replied to Japan and JICA that they are looking upto 44% of funding support. Indian Govt will support to around 15% stake and remaining Kerala can raise thro' sale of bonds, NRK investments and other means.

Mohammed, in China poor people have had problems with high fares charged by the China HSRL. In fact, the issue of equity i.e ensuring fares are affordable to a wide cross section of people has come up there with some saying HSRL fares are unaffordable for the poor. How do you think the Kerala govt can ensure Trivandrum Kasargod high speed railways is affordable for the poor? Kerala is better off owing to its higher prosperity. :cheers:

Mohammed, in China poor people have had problems with high fares charged by the China HSRL. In fact, the issue of equity i.e ensuring fares are affordable to a wide cross section of people has come up there with some saying HSRL fares are unaffordable for the poor. How do you think the Kerala govt can ensure Trivandrum Kasargod high speed railways is affordable for the poor? Kerala is better off owing to its higher prosperity. :cheers:

Well, HSR option is made, not for poor.... They still have Indian Railways and road transport available. In addition Kerala's advisor Sam Pitroda has suggested for coastal ferry services which Kerala is actively pressing soon. In addition as soon as Inland NW3 is ready, KSINC will be gearing up for launching inland ferries across NW3.

HSR is primarily meant for taking away the creamy layer who are currently adding more traffic to both railways and road. The highly congested NH 66, especially Kochi-Trivandrum and Malabar cannot hold more potential to Kerala's rising number of personal cars. HSR is an alternative for those, who can afford to travel and reach fast, without getting caught in traffic.

In a state, that records one of highest number of sales of personal automobiles, more public transport options is the only viable solution to counter effect it. You can't add more lanes on yearly basis, especially when land is so scarce in Kerala, to match with rising number of cars.

Most of the days, air a/c coaches of morning and evening trains are full and very difficult to get, because lot of people are able to afford to take so to their short distance trips.... Its extremely difficult to get A/c coach of Janshathabdi train, on the day of travel, unless heavens bless you.

The fares of HSR is planned as just 1.5 times more than current A?C services of Janshathabdi, which is quite reasonable.... Current fare between Kochi-Trivandrum is 300 Rs.... So the cost is reasonable, especially when Kerala has better high-per passenger fares prevailing......

Tentative Alignment of KHSR

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/5300/keralahsrctentativealig.jpg

Wow!! Looks great. :cheers: Please post under Kerala Cafe or Kerala Projects thread too.

From the above map, it seems the HSR station in Trivandrum will be somewhere near Kochuveli. But as per the news reports, this station location will be finalised later.

Nice...Looks like something solid is really happening here.....Let see who gets HSR first, Kerala or Gujarat......Gujarat seems to be the first at setting examples.....But hope Kerala can do something about it when it comes to HSR.

^^^^^^^^

There was a report a few days back that a second station is proposed in Kochi, apart from one in Vytilla Mobility Hub-Kochi at CIAL.... I am not sure, as it surely reduce the speed as the distance is just 40 Kms....

I personally believe, the station for Kochi should be ideally located in CIAL. This can encourage lot of Fly+Rail option and ensure assured passenger base.

With KOMET connecting between CBD-Airport sooner/later, this can helpful.... If the station for Trivandrum planned at Kochuveli, surely it be revolutionary, helping easy access for Technopark Techies, airport users... A multi-Modal hub can be considered there for multiple access, including Monorail in future.

For Kozhikode, the location seems to be ideal, as airport is nearby.....

HSR Stations: Closer View in Map

Thiruvananthapuram & Kollam

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3250/tvmklm.jpg

Chengannur & Kottayam

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2825/cgrktm.jpg

Ernakulam & Thrissur

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1183/ekmtcr.jpg

Tirur & Kozhikode

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/4046/trrkkd.jpg

Kannur & Kasaragod

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1593/knrksd.jpg

It is reported that Chengannur,Tirur & Thalassery are the future stations. But the location of Thalassery station is not shown in the map.

Pre-Feasibility Report of HSR -Trivandrum to Ernakulam
Chapter 1:Introduction Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/ch-1.pdf)
Chapter 2:World Wide HSR Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/CHAPTER%202%20HSR%20WORLDWIDE.pdf)
Chapter 3:Traffic Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/Chapter%203%20Traffic.pdf)
Chapter 4:Planning Parameters Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/Chapter%204.pdf)
Chapter 5:Route Planning Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/Chapter_5__after_House_calculation_Route_Planning[1]%2017.9.20.pdf)
Chapter 6:Civil Engg Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/Chapter%20Civil%20%20-%206.pdf)
Chapter 7:Rolling Stock & Depot Facility Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/ch%20-%207%20-%20Rolling%20Stock.pdf)
Chapter 8:Power Supply Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/ch%208%20-%20POWER%20SUPPLY%20AND%20OVERHEAD%20CATENARY%20SYSTEM.pdf)
Chapter 9:Signalling & Train Control Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/Chapter%209%20Signallling%20Telecom%20and%20AFC.pdf)
Chapter 10:Train operation Plan & Transport Planning Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/Chapter%20-10%20%20Train%20Operation%20Plan%20and%20Transport%20Planning.pdf)
Chapter 11:Environmental Impact Assessment Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/CH%20-%2011%20-%20IEE%20HSRL%20Kerala.pdf)
Chapter 12:Cost Estimate Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/Chapter%2012%20Cost%20Estimate.pdf)
Chapter 13:Financial Viability & Funding Options Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/Chapter%2013%20Financial%20viabilityl%2016.09.2011.pdf)
Chapter 14:Implementation Plan Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/Chapter%2014%20Implimentation%20Plan.pdf)
Chapter 15:Conclusions Download (http://khsrcl.com/downloads/Chapter_15_Conclusions[1]%2017.09.2011.pdf)

source: http://khsrcl.com

I wonder what will happen to Bangalore-Trivandrum HSR by Indian railway? Will there be two HSR from Thrissur to Trivandrum? :nuts:

‘The SPV i.e., KHSRL will give the land free of cost to the developer. The
developer will bring equity to the extent of Rs.722 crore and the balance
amount towards construction to be given to KHSRL as 12% Market Debt.
The estimated development cost will be Rs.2891 crore. It is assumed that the
rental revenue will accrue to the developer from the FY 2020-21 which has
been escalated @5% every year. Out of the estimated rental income, apart
from meeting maintenance expenditure, the developer will repay the loan and
interest. After meeting these obligations and retaining 14% return on his
equity with an escalation @5% every year, the residual rental earnings will
accrue to JMRC, which has been taken into account in the FIRR calculations.
The income from PD from standalone land parcel have been worked out
based on the experience of DMRC by taking lease rent @ Rs.50/sq. ft., in
2016-17 construction cost of the development @ Rs.20,000/- per sq.mtr.,
maintenance charge of the development @ 20% of the lease rent income and
FAR of 2.75.’

Extract from feasibility report for KHSRL have JMRC (Jaipur Metro Rail Corporation) in it. Jai ho! Copy and Paste….

^^
:lol:

Not only this, you can see so many CTRL+F & CTRL+R and CTRL+C & CTRL+P.....
This is the "magic" by DMRC.

Off Topic: This is exactly going to happen in the case of Trivandrum Monorail (A DPR in 20 days !) :nuts:

I wonder what will happen to Bangalore-Trivandrum HSR by Indian railway? Will there be two HSR from Thrissur to Trivandrum? :nuts:

Forget IR, they only plan on paper!!!!

I wonder what will happen to Bangalore-Trivandrum HSR by Indian railway? Will there be two HSR from Thrissur to Trivandrum? :nuts:

Why to worry about things that has very less chance to happen.

^^ The ridership figures shows a huge number for Trivandrum. If there are so many travellers to TVM, maybe it should be extended south :).
Chummathe oronnu ezhuthi undakkum.

Karnataka agrees to partner in Kerala HSR; Wants extension to Udupi (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kochi/High-speed-rail-corridor-may-go-up-to-Udupi/articleshow/14727644.cms)

The proposed Rs 1.20 lakh crore Thiruvananthapuram-Kasaragod high-speed rail corridor is likely to be extended to Udupi.

Karnataka government has written to Kerala officials in charge of the project suggesting such an extension.

"They have also expressed willingness to fund the stretch of the high-speed rail corridor passing through their state," high-speed rail corporation (HSRC) CMD T Balakrishnan told TOI. "They see a lot of potential in attracting passengers to pilgrim centres like Mookambika Temple. Anyway we are planning to extend it to Mangalore, which is a proper terminus than Kasaragod," Balakrishnan said.

HSRC said the distance of the rail corridor between Thiruvananthapuram-Kasaragod will be 521 km while it will be 564 km if the project is extended to Mangalore. The distance estimate for Udupi is yet to be worked out. The high speed train, with a speed of 300 km/hour, will reach Kasaragod from Thiruvananthapuram in 2.42 hours. A journey from Thiruvananthapuram to Mangalore will only take in 2.53 hours.

Balakrishnan said the corridor will cover 11 districts and bypass only Wayanad, Palakkad and Idukki. He claimed that the project could break even within six to seven years.

"Japanese agency JICA has shown interest to provide loan for the project and this continues to be the first option. JICA loan will have a moratorium of 10 years and repayment period of about 40 years. We are also keeping our options open on availing loan from ADB and World Bank,'' he said.

I wonder what will happen to Bangalore-Trivandrum HSR by Indian railway? Will there be two HSR from Thrissur to Trivandrum? :nuts:

I think the central funds for IR project will be transferred to KHSRL project.

I think the central funds for IR project will be transferred to KHSRL project.

I think, the central partnership in this project is limited to Thrissur-Kochi-Trivandrum stretch of KHSRL, which is part of IR Sponsored Chennai-Bangalore-Kochi-Trivandrum leg of South HSR.

May be, thats why, Ommen Chandy said, they could save 45,000 crore when IR decided to extend Chennai-Kochi HSR to Trivandrum. It could be this much money, the Central Stake into the project.

Ofcourse, in no common logic, there will two HSR alignments, running between same places. In all probable means, Thrissur could be interchange hub between two lines.

Extract from feasibility report for KHSRL have JMRC (Jaipur Metro Rail Corporation) in it. Jai ho! Copy and Paste….

Its what DMRC is good at these days. Trying to grab and chew whatever they can through cut & paste job!!

Consultancy money matters, which run in to crores!!

Duplicate post

High-speed rail corridor may go up to Udupi
T Ramavarman, TNN Jul 7, 2012, 05.27AM IST

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-07-07/kochi/32577054_1_rail-corridor-high-speed-rail-high-speed

KOCHI: The proposed Rs 1.20 lakh crore Thiruvananthapuram-Kasaragod high-speed rail corridor is likely to be extended to Udupi.

Karnataka government has written to Kerala officials in charge of the project suggesting such an extension.

"They have also expressed willingness to fund the stretch of the high-speed rail corridor passing through their state," high-speed rail corporation (HSRC) CMD T Balakrishnan told TOI. "They see a lot of potential in attracting passengers to pilgrim centres like Mookambika Temple. Anyway we are planning to extend it to Mangalore, which is a proper terminus than Kasaragod," Balakrishnan said.

HSRC said the distance of the rail corridor between Thiruvananthapuram-Kasaragod will be 521 km while it will be 564 km if the project is extended to Mangalore. The distance estimate for Udupi is yet to be worked out. The high speed train, with a speed of 300 km/hour, will reach Kasaragod from Thiruvananthapuram in 2.42 hours. A journey from Thiruvananthapuram to Mangalore will only take in 2.53 hours.

Balakrishnan said the corridor will cover 11 districts and bypass only Wayanad, Palakkad and Idukki. He claimed that the project could break even within six to seven years.

"Japanese agency JICA has shown interest to provide loan for the project and this continues to be the first option. JICA loan will have a moratorium of 10 years and repayment period of about 40 years. We are also keeping our options open on availing loan from ADB and World Bank,'' he said.

Kochi: The proposed Rs 1.20 lakh crore Thiruvananthapuram-Kasaragod high-speed rail corridor is likely to be extended to Udupi in Karnataka.

The Karnataka government has written to the Kerala officials in charge of the project suggesting such an extension of the project. They have also expressed willingness to fund that stretch of the high speed rail corridor passing through their state, T Balakrishnan, who is the chairman and managing director of high-speed rail corporation (HSRC) formed by the state told TOI here.

"They see lot of potential in attracting passengers to pilgrim centres like Mookambika Temple. Anyway we are planning to extend it to Mangalore, which is a proper terminus than Kasaragod," Balakrishnan said.

HSRC said the distance of the rail corridor between Thiruvananthapuram-Kasaragod will be 521 km while it will be 564 km if it is extended to Mangalore. The distance estimates of the corridor extended up to Udupi was yet to be worked out. The high speed train with a speed of 300 km per hour will reach Kasaragod from Thiruvananthapuram in 2.42 hours and will reach Mangalore in 2.53 hours.

Balakrishnan said the corridor will cover 11 districts and bypass only Wayanad, Palakkad and Idukki districts.

He claimed that the project could break even within six to seven years.

The Japanese agency JICA has shown interest to provide loan for the project and this continues to be the first option. JICA loan will have a moratorium of 10 years and repayment period of about 40 years.

"We are also keeping our options open on availing loan from ADB and World Bank,'' he said.

Next:

MH govt says extend it from Udupi to Mumbai.
Guj govt says extend to it Ahmedabad.
Raj govt says extend it to Jaipur.
Union govt extends it to Delhi.
Union govt extends it to Jammu.
Finally Jammu-Trivandrum HSRL. :cheers::banana:

Its what DMRC is good at these days. Trying to grab and chew whatever they can through cut & paste job!!

Consultancy money matters, which run in to crores!!

Exactly.The over hype in the media is like DMRC and E Sreedharan is the only company/Person in the entire world who can do this.

As long as no other Indian or Foreign Company, have proved similar to DMRC, in keeping its time schedules and work quality at least disturbances to society, surely they can be really proud or even on head sometimes....

I am basically against one attitude of E.Sreedharan. The public lobbying for DMRC, which is NOT something good. But anyway, as long as they prove and others donot compete similar, they surely have the cake......

As long as no other Indian or Foreign Company, have proved similar to DMRC, in keeping its time schedules and work quality at least disturbances to society, surely they can be really proud or even on head sometimes....

I am basically against one attitude of E.Sreedharan. The public lobbying for DMRC, which is something good. But anyway, as long as they prove and others donot compete similar, they surely have the cake......

Well said Mohammed. In our country, there is a trend of trying to ridicule anyone who has achieved something because he/she may not be perfect. Let's appreciate DMRC's track record of doing work on time/budget. However, they are not gods either. :ohno:

After all DMRC is a govt entity. If not today, it'll become a 'real' govt entity in future ... As DMRC grows bigger and bigger, politicians will think of creating a ministry for metro rail under which DMRC will fall under :D With the politicians' interference, scams will follow :(

After all DMRC is a govt entity. If not today, it'll become a 'real' govt entity in future ... As DMRC grows bigger and bigger, politicians will think of creating a ministry for metro rail under which DMRC will fall under :D With the politicians' interference, scams will follow :(

Well, can't say about future, as in past too we had many shining Govt ventures like Air India etc, all in ruins now....

The current independence of DMRC, is because of E.Sreedharan's Ganga Attitude.... But can't predict how in future it will work out....

But there are many ventures of Govt doing expectionally well due to its sound organizational values. Say ONGC or BHEL or to some extend BSNL etc.... DMRC can definitely do wonders. But what I feel is that, it should become more competitive player and must participate in bids like any other professional consultancies/engineering firms.... It should not mere remain as Govt's choice within India. Rather must even try out foreign ventures too......

Kerala seeks investment from UAE (http://gulfnews.com/business/investment/kerala-seeks-investment-from-uae-1.1047706)

Abu Dhabi: The south Indian state of Kerala is trying to cash in on the reputation of its people, who constitute the largest Indian community in the UAE, to seek foreign investments for its ambitious megaprojects which include a 650km high-speed railway, an official of the state delegation visiting the UAE said on Sunday.
Highly educated and skilled Keralites are everywhere in the world, including the UAE, and have acquired a very good reputation, according to V. Somasundaran, Additional Chief Secretary in charge of Industries and Commerce in the Kerala state government.
A prominent Indian businessman said when India’s economy was opened to foreign investments in 1991, they were advised to take their Emirati business partners to India to look into opportunities there.
“They said it would be beneficial to both Indians and Emiratis to strengthen their existing relationships,” said Mohan Jashanmal, the chairman of Indian Business and Professional Group, Abu Dhabi.
Article continues below

The group hosted an event on Sunday evening for two senior Kerala government officials who presented the projects to be unveiled in ‘Emerging Kerala’. It is a global networking programme designed to bring together people from all walks of life who are interested in investing in the state.
The tender for the proposed projects will be ready at the ‘Emerging Kerala’, said Alkesh Sharma, Managing Director of Kerala State Industrial Development Corporation. The event will be held at Kochi, the city known as the commercial and industrial hub of the state, from September 12 to 14.
The Kerala government has identified 26 thrust sectors to be presented before the investors. Of these 10 will be core sectors.
Among the 10 core projects, the high speed railway will be the first of its kind in South Asia, they said.
The corridor linking Thiruvananthapuram, the capital of the state in the southernmost part, to Kasargode, the northernmost city, will be independent of the existing 1,148km railway lines on 13 routes in the state, they said.
The first phase of the project connecting Thiruvananthapuram and Kochi, will cost Rs45 billion (Dh2.97 billion).
Kochi Metro, a world-class Light Mass Rapid Transit System in Kochi City, of Rs450 billion and monorail projects at Thiruvananthapuram (of Rs34.08 billion and Kozhikode (of Rs15 billion) are also part of the ambitious infrastructure projects.
The officials said the government has set up an online single-window clearance system which facilitates the processing of licences and approvals can be secured within 90 days for investors.
When an Abu Dhabi government official inquired whether the 90-day duration is a long time to get all clearances, Somasundaram said: “It is the maximum time. In most of the cases, the clearance will be given in a shorter time.”
He explained that some projects like that of gas infrastructure need environmental impact assessment and related approvals which require a little time.

Kerala seeks investment from UAE (http://gulfnews.com/business/investment/kerala-seeks-investment-from-uae-1.1047706)

The first phase of the project connecting Thiruvananthapuram and Kochi, will cost Rs45 billion (Dh2.97 billion).

45 billion rupees for the first phase (approx 200 kilometers) comes out to about 22 crores/km. Do they mean 450 billion?

45 billion rupees for the first phase (approx 200 kilometers) comes out to about 22 crores/km. Do they mean 450 billion?

I think all the figures given in the report is incorrect.

^^

It's Rs 45,0000 crore, so 450 billion rupees.

So, 45,000 crores (not 45,0000 as stated above) to be spent for the benefit of 3.3 crores of population. That turns out to be Rs. 13,600 per person. That's about 1/3rd of per capita income.

At this rate, for 100 crore population of India might need 30 times the amount Kerala is planning to spend on HSR :cheers:

So, 45,000 crores (not 45,0000 as stated above) to be spent for the benefit of 3.3 crores of population. That turns out to be Rs. 13,600 per person. That's about 1/3rd of per capita income.

At this rate, for 100 crore population of India might need 30 times the amount Kerala is planning to spend on HSR :cheers:

Wont the cost of tickets be higher than airfare in this case?
I imagine Europe in Kerala :-)

So, 45,000 crores (not 45,0000 as stated above) to be spent for the benefit of 3.3 crores of population. That turns out to be Rs. 13,600 per person. That's about 1/3rd of per capita income.
Rs 13,600 per person not in a year. Divide it by another 10 or 20.

^^ Agree ..

For comparison, California HSR is expected to cost $68 billion to serve the state with population of 38 million, that comes to about $1790 per person. Per capita income of California is about $44,000. So HSR costs about 4% of per capita income. Yet there is lot of resistance from both the politicians as well as financial experts.

For Kerala HSR, the cost per person vs. the per-capita is 27%.

No complaint here ... just putting things in perspective. I'm sure there are many pros of Kerala HSR vs. CA HSR, and am sure we visited the pros many times in the past.

^^

Assume Rs 45,000 crores.

44% financed by JICA.
56% is divided between state and centre.
So in effect 28% by the GoK.

Now let's do the calcs again,

Rs 12,600 crore by the state, say for a period of 5 years.
Rs 3,818 per person for 5 years.
Rs 763 per person per year.

No need to compare with US. They are a declining economy while India is an emerging economy. There would have been no issues if US proposed this 10 years ago.

^^ Be it state or center of JICA, it's still money, right ? Why do you want to discount all of that and just stick to Kerala state govt contribution ... don't think I said anything about just the Kerala govt. I was talking about the project cost as a whole.

FYI, India too is on a decline this year, but that doesn't mean it'll not emerge again. So is US .. but this if off-topic that I'd rather not discuss. Take inflation in to consideration, then India's growth is not really a big one !

So, 45,000 crores (not 45,0000 as stated above) to be spent for the benefit of 3.3 crores of population. That turns out to be Rs. 13,600 per person. That's about 1/3rd of per capita income.

At this rate, for 100 crore population of India might need 30 times the amount Kerala is planning to spend on HSR :cheers:

Well, agree that the primary users of Kerala HSR would be people in the state. But a state, aspiring for huge industrialization, should count in increase of its population in next 10 years.... Kerala is not any Karnataka or AP, where all developments are concentrated in one city. Already 4 or 5 cities of Kerala have entered into the list of next boom cities of India. More are on its way.... Naturally the primary focus should be on inter-city transportation.

Added to it, the state is on its path of becoming India's most important tourist destination. Every-year, the number of tourists are increasing and Kerala already achieved all around destination status. This means, we need to count in these people too....

In short, the potential users of service is much more than state population.....


Wont the cost of tickets be higher than airfare in this case?
I imagine Europe in Kerala :-)

Its already declared that the cost of the ticket, would be 1.5 times more than Janshatabdi A/C Coach fares. You can count yourself, what would be cost from Kochi to Trivandrum, with current JS fares at Rs 300....

Hope, there is no need for being Europe....

^^

Assume Rs 45,000 crores.

44% financed by JICA.
56% is divided between state and centre.
So in effect 28% by the GoK.

Now let's do the calcs again,

Rs 12,600 crore by the state, say for a period of 5 years.
Rs 3,818 per person for 5 years.
Rs 763 per person per year.

No need to compare with US. They are a declining economy while India is an emerging economy. There would have been no issues if US proposed this 10 years ago.


Also have to take into account that 45k crores is only for Phase I, till Kochi. So it's not technically benefitting 3.3 crore people right off the bat.

Also have to take into account that 45k crores is only for Phase I, till Kochi. So it's not technically benefitting 3.3 crore people right off the bat.

I am sure, the project consultants DMRC would be better informed and wise than most of us.... We are living in a country, which sticks to its orthodox views.... Unless somewhere and sometime, we get ready to change, nothing is going to happen. If Kerala Govt is confident along with Central Govt, I don't foresee any major issue, given the fact there are enough people in the state with good pockets and looking for a better option to travel....

JICA funding seems to be delayed by 2 yrs for Kochi metro per TOI article ... gotta see how and when JICA will make a statement on funding the Kerala HSR.

JICA funding seems to be delayed by 2 yrs for Kochi metro per TOI article ... gotta see how and when JICA will make a statement on funding the Kerala HSR.

Don't take TOI's article even on a prima facia.... They are making fake news regarding Kochi, for past few months. It seems, someone in the editorial of TOI have strong grudge against Kochi... The recent example of TOI's fake news regarding crime stats is a best example.

If one observes past news reports, the TOI reports reintreprets every report, to present a sitution in very negative report.

JICA already have informed that loan process will take a year, since date of approval. E.Sreedharan has clarified in his press meet several times back, they are starting the work, with Central and State funds, especially when current works are mostly preparatory in nature, not actual works..... The same matter TOI reporters reintrepretted in their fashion. It was state who reduced JICA's stake, as they are looking their investment source. Even for Kerala HSR, JICA was ready to finance more than 60%, but state asked only 44% stake. But TOI reports as a matter done by JICA....

Afterall, its nothing but TOIlet paper.....

These stupid politicians have no idea about prioritizing. Who came up with the idea to build an almost parallel line to the existing IR line in a densely populated state like Kerala? :bash: The cost to build and more importantly, to maintain this would be much more than the projected $2.1 billion and prohibitive at the current state of affairs.For much less, they could add extra (even dedicated) lines and upgrade the IR system to handle trains that can do normal speeds by world standards (100-150mph -160-220 km/h).With that, even at the lower speeds and a lot more stops, it will only take 3-4 hrs to travel the entire length of this tiny state. What Kerala badly needs is decent roads. All the land acquisition efforts (always difficult in places like Kerala) should go to build an access controlled expressway through the entire length of Kerala. That will benefit the entire state (access for a lot more towns) and its economy (goods movement,lower fuel consumption).

^^ ^^I guess DMRC did the DPR for komet.

^^^
I was talking about the HSR. Komet(Kochi metro) is fine.They could even extend it to Trissur/kottayam.Metro being urban mass transit would be great for populated corridors like these.Transportation infrastructure in Kerala,much of India for that matter,is not mature enough to sustain HSR at such high costs.Why dont they run the existing 2 track IR system more efficiently? Why cant they upgrade these tracks and run trains at 150km/hr?
Kerala has pathetic roads as far as highways are concerned.They really need to fix that first before investing in fancy HSRs.Just one good freeway through the length of the state can serve the whole state well.

Kerala needs an HSR coz it cant further widen the national Highways and IR!! the reason is simple 'the population density'!! compare the highways with kerala and other states we can see both sides of NH in kerala is thickly populated while n other states there r acres of barren land n both sides of Highway!! The new govt is trying hard still people e oppose even 4 laning of highways!! think abt this in 2020?? kerala is developing n fast pace and atleast 5 cities are gonna b part of future indian TIER II cites! hw do people travel? not everybdy can afford air travel rite!!

HSR is a good option,but an elevated 6 lane would have been a better option as it will increase freight movements too..And for sure its going to boost our economy much more than HSR.But I believe they must have done their homework and weighed all the options before venturing out into this billion dollar project...anyways lets be optimistic and happy that atleast there is a paradigm change in the attitude of our politicians.

Dude are u crazy..elevated 6 lane expressway...man the concrete required for elevated section only costs so much...and u r telling to build an expressway...

Dude are u crazy..elevated 6 lane expressway...man the concrete required for elevated section only costs so much...and u r telling to build an expressway...

Thats the primary reason, Kerala abandoned the dreams of elevated expressway..... Secondly, you can build 8 or 10 lane expressway.. But you can't add more lanes, as and when traffic rises. In a state, which has highest density of vehicles and more are rising, its impossible for any expressway to cater the demand on long run.......

Hence a HSR makes an alternative

Kerala needs an HSR coz it cant further widen the national Highways and IR!! the reason is simple 'the population density'!! compare the highways with kerala and other states we can see both sides of NH in kerala is thickly populated while n other states there r acres of barren land n both sides of Highway!! The new govt is trying hard still people e oppose even 4 laning of highways!! think abt this in 2020?? kerala is developing n fast pace and atleast 5 cities are gonna b part of future indian TIER II cites! hw do people travel? not everybdy can afford air travel rite!!

+100

Dude are u crazy..elevated 6 lane expressway...man the concrete required for elevated section only costs so much...and u r telling to build an expressway...

Don't think it is a crazy idea. Old man Sreedharan said in an interview that the HSR will be on elevated tracks in open areas and will go below ground while passing through highly populated areas. So cost difference may not be that much between these two modes of transport.

Dude u also speaking in feasibly...how can u travel fast on such expressways...a HSR can carry 800 passengers in a 8 coach train and run at 300+ kmph.. till date no 1 has built so long elevated expressways between two cities...its completely madness

In HSR there r other advantages like less carbon footprint and much more ecofriendly!! if the Govt build 6-8 lane express way hw itz gonna recover the cost? may be toll..!! at that time all the political parties vl start agitation aganist toll and finally the project is gonna stand still! kerala is famous for their agitation aganist tolls all over! this project is feasible economically, Politically (since communist are not aganist this) and environmentally!!

For the time being, I would rather convert the existing National Highway 66 into a 6 lane freeway than build an entirely new one. The busy junctions, towns could be bypassed and can be connected by Exits before and after.

For the time being, I would rather convert the existing National Highway 66 into a 6 lane freeway than build an entirely new one. The busy junctions, towns could be bypassed and can be connected by Exits before and after.

6 lane freeway that too NH66?? Day dreaming or what.

Y should we develop for time being[ that only happens in kerala! that is just waste of money! nobody is gonna get advantage if u develop any infrastructure for time being!! develop our infrastructure for future!

6 lane freeway that too NH66?? Day dreaming or what.

Making a freeway's no day dream now a days. The NH 66 can be converted into a freeway. Highways should become a thing of the past like in the west. Freeways/ Expressway's are the future.

Making a freeway's no day dream now a days. The NH 66 can be converted into a freeway. Highways should become a thing of the past like in the west. Freeways/ Expressway's are the future.

Be realistic.... Do you think, we can acquire 100 M in densely populated NH 66 and make it into 6 Lane Freeways? Who will pay for the LA? Where will be they relocated? What about the civil cases and protests? And the most big question? Given the rate of increase of private vehicles, what will we do when the 6 lanes expressway not enough? Will be again go for another round LA to increase it into 8 lane?

Another question.... NH 66 is not just a Highway. It connects to almost N number of small towns, villages, farms etc... Our state's topgraphy is different. We have a continuous semi urban area and the Highway acts almost like arterial road for all these places. How will we replace it, without alternate road?

Think in Kerala context, not in Yamuna Expressway or Hyderabad ORR context.....

Be realistic.... Do you think, we can acquire 100 M in densely populated NH 66 and make it into 6 Lane Freeways? Who will pay for the LA? Where will be they relocated? What about the civil cases and protests? And the most big question? Given the rate of increase of private vehicles, what will we do when the 6 lanes expressway not enough? Will be again go for another round LA to increase it into 8 lane?

Another question.... NH 66 is not just a Highway. It connects to almost N number of small towns, villages, farms etc... Our state's topgraphy is different. We have a continuous semi urban area and the Highway acts almost like arterial road for all these places. How will we replace it, without alternate road?

Think in Kerala context, not in Yamuna Expressway or Hyderabad ORR context.....

+1
The NH in kerala almost act as city/town roads in most of the distance. It doesnt even fulfill the real intent of highway because of continous thickly populated towns and cities. Now we dont have a real highway which we struggling to make 4 lane and talking about 6 lane freeway is quite out of reality.

NH 66 is a city road in "Kerala Metropolitan Area". :D

Reposting here
Here is the web site of KHSRCL (http://www.khsrcl.com/)
Here is the Pre-Feasibility Report (http://www.khsrcl.com/download.aspx)
The alignment of phase 1 as Google Earth placemark (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2Q5kRmxjsVzTnFHS0RzMkhJME0)

Be realistic.... Do you think, we can acquire 100 M in densely populated NH 66 and make it into 6 Lane Freeways? Who will pay for the LA? Where will be they relocated? What about the civil cases and protests? And the most big question? Given the rate of increase of private vehicles, what will we do when the 6 lanes expressway not enough? Will be again go for another round LA to increase it into 8 lane?

Another question.... NH 66 is not just a Highway. It connects to almost N number of small towns, villages, farms etc... Our state's topgraphy is different. We have a continuous semi urban area and the Highway acts almost like arterial road for all these places. How will we replace it, without alternate road?

Think in Kerala context, not in Yamuna Expressway or Hyderabad ORR context.....

That's where you use exits to connect to these towns and densely populated areas while the actual freeway bypasses it. The old NH66 can be developed as an exit from the freeway and can rejoin the freeway after the freeway bypasses the town.

+1
The NH in kerala almost act as city/town roads in most of the distance. It doesnt even fulfill the real intent of highway because of continous thickly populated towns and cities. Now we dont have a real highway which we struggling to make 4 lane and talking about 6 lane freeway is quite out of reality.

5 years back, I never thought MG road in Trivandrum could be converted from a 2 lane road to 6 lane one. But it happened.

That's where you use exits to connect to these towns and densely populated areas while the actual freeway bypasses it. The old NH66 can be developed as an exit from the freeway and can rejoin the freeway after the freeway bypasses the town.

Then you will have an EXITWAY, than a freeway, as we exit from one town only to reenter into another town.....

Very few places in Kerala do actually have some open area, especially if we take the coastal route, where NH 66 passes off.... Its almost a continous urban habitat

Well, if you are talking about a new alignment and new expressway, Govt has tried its best to introduce. But failed, as it becomes too impossible to acquire 100 M land and develop an access controlled freeway. Then the next option if elevated one, which will also be prohibitive expensive.

Even if we make an 8 lane express highway we will still take at least 8-10 hours to drive from Trivandrum to Kasargod. Our normal trains can run faster than vehicles in express highway.

^^ HSR only stops at few places, what's the use of HSR for the continuous urban stretches of Kerala ?

^^ HSR only stops at few places, what's the use of HSR for the continuous urban stretches of Kerala ?

Otherwise too Expressway, donot have exits every now and there.

It will help passengers to reach the main city and then commute to individual places via local transport. Bu this way, the congestion in main highways can be controlled. Say, If I need to travel from Kochi to Pala, there is no point me adding to traffic congestion, in Vytilla, Tripunithara, Poothotta, Ettumanoor etc. Rather I can catch the train to Kottayam and then commute to Pala. In this way, there can be effective reduction in traffic on roads

^^ With Expressways, you can have exits as many as you want .. say 4 or 5 exits per city. But if we make create more stations for HSR, the trains will not be able to perform at the best speeds.

Anyways, each has its own pros n cons ... we don't need to show only the cons of Expressways just make it a point the HSR is the way to go !

Looks like having a metro train (like DAME in Delhi) all along Kerala coast is the only solution since it's all urban land with high population density :cheers: Pure HSR may not be the solution.

Well HSR is very effectivee solution....but cost is so huge that is sounds very tough to inplement

^^ With Expressways, you can have exits as many as you want .. say 4 or 5 exits per city. But if we make create more stations for HSR, the trains will not be able to perform at the best speeds.

Anyways, each has its own pros n cons ... we don't need to show only the cons of Expressways just make it a point the HSR is the way to go !

Looks like having a metro train (like DAME in Delhi) all along Kerala coast is the only solution since it's all urban land with high population density :cheers: Pure HSR may not be the solution.

The problem is that we can't get land of a 8 lane expressway in Kerala. People will strongly object.... In this case, the LA is minimal. Thats the only reason, the intensity of protests are very less....

The option of elevated expressway will also be equally prohibitive costly. Given such a choice, naturally a Public transport like HSR must be given priority than expressway which will be mainly used by private vehicles....

As per the plan, there will be 9 stops. each around in a distance of 80 to 100 KM....

I was reading some activist pages opposing HSR. There are claims that the right of way is much wider because of vibrations etc.

I took a look at how the Japanese do it, and what do I find? There is a 12-14M right of way, and houses abutting the boundary of the tracks!! There is no buffer zone etc. So, a 14M wide corridor should be fine for the cities/towns.

Otherwise too Expressway, donot have exits every now and there.

It will help passengers to reach the main city and then commute to individual places via local transport. Bu this way, the congestion in main highways can be controlled. Say, If I need to travel from Kochi to Pala, there is no point me adding to traffic congestion, in Vytilla, Tripunithara, Poothotta, Ettumanoor etc. Rather I can catch the train to Kottayam and then commute to Pala. In this way, there can be effective reduction in traffic on roads

Freeways/expressways can have any number of exits, one every 5-10 km or sometimes even less considering the area through which the freeway passes. We don't need a 8 lane freeway. A 6 lane one would suffice more than enough for a long long time.

Having said so, I didn't propose freeway as an alternative to HSR. I'm hoping for both projects to become a reality.

Then you will have an EXITWAY, than a freeway, as we exit from one town only to reenter into another town.....

Very few places in Kerala do actually have some open area, especially if we take the coastal route, where NH 66 passes off.... Its almost a continous urban habitat

Well, if you are talking about a new alignment and new expressway, Govt has tried its best to introduce. But failed, as it becomes too impossible to acquire 100 M land and develop an access controlled freeway. Then the next option if elevated one, which will also be prohibitive expensive.

You've said about going from Ernakulam to Pala in one of your posts. So, I suppose you've traveled from Ettumanoor to Pala. That road was constructed not long ago bypassing many junctions on the route. Constructing an exit road from the freeway to the busier junctions and towns and bypassing them is possible.

Freeways/expressways can have any number of exits, one every 5-10 km or sometimes even less considering the area through which the freeway passes. We don't need a 8 lane freeway. A 6 lane one would suffice more than enough for a long long time.

Having said so, I didn't propose freeway as an alternative to HSR. I'm hoping for both projects to become a reality.

The issue is not exits.... The issue is LA... Some months back, RBCK Director Beena said that in Kerala, most of the times LA becomes more costlier than the project itself.... Even for a 4 Lane road, you require minimum 45 to 50 M width (including service road). We are struggling even for 30M and people objecting for 45m acquisition, how can we consider.

By the time, we acquire land for a 45M wide highway, the demand surely will rise for 6 or 8 lane traffic. The Cherthala-Manutty road is a good example, as despite of its width, many times we feel more width is required especially in early mornings when there are huge number of trailers and lorries passes.

You've said about going from Ernakulam to Pala in one of your posts. So, I suppose you've traveled from Ettumanoor to Pala. That road was constructed not long ago bypassing many junctions on the route. Constructing an exit road from the freeway to the busier junctions and towns and bypassing them is possible.

Hope you too have observed, today this stretch of road, is booming into a city region and traffic increased multi-fold. In Kerala, an access-controlled expressway is too difficult, as once a road is constructed, immediately the area booms into an urbansphere. We are not living in Karnataka or AP, where, highway passes thro' lots of barren inhabited areas. Most of the areas, its thickly populated and a highway sooner or later acts like an arterial road. Its impossible to put up fences and restrict crossings, as it will invite public protests.

I am definitely not against Expressway. But we must consider our limitations too.

HSR is not an alternative.
You know why the farmers suicide?
Kerala will go down like Greece if we go ahead.
Express Highway cost only a fraction (1/20), Can Have extra right-of-way for future HSR.
Access controlled Express Highway can have any number of Exits.
Can Travel at any time, carry goods, can have bigger business impact on every exits.
Kerala is thickly populated is not a valid reason, we don’t need a Highway otherwise.
Go to Google map any one can see there is plenty of vacant land .Widening of the existing highway is too expensive and don't even think about elevated Express way.
All this point to only one thing Dr. Muneer’s proposed access controlled Express Way a decade ago, is the only alternative. with more Exits, with no service road and reduced Right of way.

very funny!! think before you comment!! development of four junctions in kochi costs more than 1500+ crore! nw u calculate hw much money the govt need to spend for LA n the whole state!! i dont know y people are worried abt num of exits! the expressways/HSR are not intended to take people to der door step, it aims at city to city transport much faster and cheaper!! i dont understand 'n' number of exits in an express way!!! u can betr call itz another highway rite :D..! expressway means controlled access highways! if u have exits in all small towns itz just a highway!!

The expressway is the need of the day. No question about it. But why HSR gets considered?

1. Less land acquisition (1/4th only), hence less opposition.
2. It is "Public Transportation", thus a major ideological opposition is blunted.
3. Paying for ticket is NOT DENYING RIGHT OF MOVEMENT, unlike TOLL.
4. Japan will gladly pay, because it is a WIN^3 for them. Spend money at better interest, then get back most of those money in equipment, and generate economic boost by manufacturing those equipment
5. More opportunities for kickbacks.

very funny!! think before you comment!! development of four junctions in kochi costs more than 1500+ crore! nw u calculate hw much money the govt need to spend for LA n the whole state!! i dont know y people are worried abt num of exits! the expressways/HSR are not intended to take people to der door step, it aims at city to city transport much faster and cheaper!! i dont understand 'n' number of exits in an express way!!! u can betr call itz another highway rite :D..! expressway means controlled access highways! if u have exits in all small towns itz just a highway!!

I had the experience of driving in a freeway while in the US and there was an exit every 5-10 km. In a highway, you can enter at any point but in a freeway you can enter only at designated entrances. Highways are disappearing fast from the developed world in favour of freeways and so should our highways, mainly the NH 66.

In the US context, expressways are not necessarily freeways. Freeways are access controlled, and without stoplights.

Freeways passing through urban areas have exits as close as half a mile or less. Look at the freeways of the Bay Area. But the expressway that we need should pass through the less populated areas, and there should be exits where the major roads cross it, keeping a minimum of, say, 10km between exits.

^^ I'm assuming Kerala is like bay area ... one city after the other .. one town after the other ... in which case Kerala needs a highway like US 101 too. Not saying HSR is not needed .. but just saying ...

My mother used to tell us a story "The uncle who threw away the curry".

It was olden times of matriarchal family system, where the uncle (mother's brother) is the chef executive of a family, and wield a lot of power, but often he will split more of his care to his own wife and kids, ignoring his 'realm'.

One day, the uncle come to his 'family', and the niece serve him meals. They could afford only one curry for the rice (thanks to the mismanagement of the uncle, btw). The uncle becomes angry, complaining that the curry is good for nothing, and pushes it out of the leaf and onto the floor.

Uncle: What kind of curry is this? Get me something good.
Niece: Sorry, We made only one curry, uncle.
Uncle: Is it? Get me some pickles then.
Niece: Forgive us, we didn't make pickles this year, uncle, as you didn't release money to buy fenugreek and asafoetida.
Uncle: Oho!! Get me some 'moru' and a chilly, then!!
Niece: Pardon us, We don't have moru, after you sold off the cow, uncle.
Uncle: Arrrrgh.. OK. Bring me some more of the same curry, as it is spilt out already.
Niece: Uncle, please have mercy! That is all curry we had. We served the whole of it to you.

Turning red, both by anger, and embarrassment, the man took the top, untainted portion of the curry from the floor to eat his rice with.

We Keralites are like that only. We oppose and torpedo anything and everything when it is introduced. Then 20 years later, meekly accept a worse, inferior option at a greater cost.

Same goes with expressway, and same will go with HSR.

^^

+ 1000

In the US context, expressways are not necessarily freeways. Freeways are access controlled, and without stoplights.

Freeways passing through urban areas have exits as close as half a mile or less. Look at the freeways of the Bay Area. But the expressway that we need should pass through the less populated areas, and there should be exits where the major roads cross it, keeping a minimum of, say, 10km between exits.

Don't you think a 4 lane Freeway like the inter state highways in US enough in Kerala? Why does it have to an "expressway" whatever it is. Add extra lanes near entries/exits and near bigger towns cities so that the main 4 lanes are not interrupted at any point and you can easily cover the whole 450 kms in 5 -6 hrs. I do that distance on a not at all fancy 4 lane interstate freeway almost every weekend in less than 4 hrs. To jobn,an exit doesn't mean that the whole highway exit at the town,stops at all junctions and start again. It's just a lane exiting the the highway while another one might be joining shortly afterwards. The traffic in the inner lanes flows fast without any interruption.
I understand your arguments about political ground realities but is LA for HSR that needs to be completely protected and isolated for safe passage of trains at 300km/hr that much less than that for a no stops (underpasses at all intersections no need for fancy interchanges yet ) 100km/hr capable 4 lane road? Alignment would be similar don't you think?
Why is a highway considered as something for private transport only? Newer buses like the volvos can do it faster than most cars in India. Run a Volvo every 15 min if you want to achased the toll to the ticket price. How about freight? I can't see HSR taking shipping containers. I just think that a good highway would be a lot more usefull than HSR.
What about utilizing IR system better. Why can't they start faster 100-120 km/ hr suburban trains frequently throughout the length of Kerala on the existing IR system?

All that said,if people would gladly give up their land for rail but not road and Japanese are willing to paying ( missed that bit of info earlier) I say go for it.

^^Absolutely. A 4 lane, access controlled highway with 6 or more lanes in urban areas is what we really need. You can do it in 35-40M Right of way in most of the places. Call it Expressway, Freeway, athivega patha, janakeeya patha (or maanaveeyam patha, if the party insist)

My considered opinion is that the proposal failed because it had too much of futurism in it. It was prepared from a business executive perspective. The first mistake was the publishing of the report. If it was proposed after a careful political campaign, it would have passed muster. Now we lost it all.

The HSR track need to be protected and isolated. I am waiting for dignitaries like Prof RVG Menon to come back with the "Flood on the east and drought on the west" and cultural leaders (OK, one of them is dead) to come lamenting that the boy from east can't love the girl from west. Though I hope for the best, I am prepared to see this too being shot down.

It is not I am against HSR, we probably need one in hundred years. mean time Express way is the only solution.

I think the cost for this project will be much more the 120000 core, may go double that amount. kochi metro is 200 core per km. high speed rail the force generated at 350 km/h is 20 to 30 times higher than 60km/h metro rail. for example a hammer placed on a table is city metro, no dammage to the table. HSR is you take the hammer and beat the table, the table breaks. so you have to make the table stronger. with my experiane metrorail needs 1 drilled shaft (1.5 m dia) every 30 meters, for HSR needs 2 drill ed shafts (1.5 to 1.8 m Dia) (1 under each rail) at 15 m, because of the tremendous force.
so the cost of HSR viaduct could go to 400 core/km

high speed trains cost about 100 core or more for each train (1000 people capacity)
need 25 to 30 Trains

Power for one trip from TVM to KG and back about 100 000 units (1000 people capacity @350 km/h)

cost of maintenance of station train tracks viaducts etc. needs more employees to run than KSRTC.



Japan bank loan may not be that cheep 100000 core borrowed in 2007 @ 0% rate is now more than 200000 core.



HSR produce high aero dynamic noise at inervals, Express way makes constant traffic noise. i dont know which is more unbearable.

^^+1

Google Maps to the aid of High Speed Rail Corridor (http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-kerala/article3685073.ece)
http://i49.tinypic.com/1zqcb2h.jpg
Marking done in the CUSAT campus for HSRC

The Delhi Metro Rail Corporation has deployed Google Maps to fix a preliminary alignment for the proposed High Speed Rail Corridor (HSRC), 55 kms of which will pass through Ernakulam district.

Markings denoting the alignment have been spotted on roads and compound walls at several places in Kalamassery municipality.

Sources said that this alignment could be changed if necessary as the effort is to avoid high-rise buildings and heavily populated areas.

They said that the markings were done without informing the local bodies necessitating a meeting of chairmen of local bodies on August 4 to ensure the smooth conduct of the operations to fix the alignment for the rail corridor, a dream project drawn up by the United Democratic Front government.

The district administration has been given a sketch of the route, based on which work on the alignment will be taken forward. Land acquisition proceedings will be initiated after the State government approves the survey report, sources added.

It is learnt that local bodies expressed discontent at the way work on the alignment of the rail passage has been carried out so far.

The High Speed Rail Corridor connects Thiruvananthapuram and Kasargod and passes through 21 local bodies in the district.

One problem with the HSR alignment is, you can't make minor local adjustments to the alignment. The specified minimum radius is 6250m. So, the notion of moving it to adjust to residential patterns won't be possible.

The fact that it is being bent west to reach Vyttila is affecting a lot of high value properties here. I foresee a lot of opposition from here.

One problem with the HSR alignment is, you can't make minor local adjustments to the alignment. The specified minimum radius is 6250m. So, the notion of moving it to adjust to residential patterns won't be possible.

The fact that it is being bent west to reach Vyttila is affecting a lot of high value properties here. I foresee a lot of opposition from here.

I still unconvinced to see the logic of makin Kochi station at VMH. Yes the primary intention could be the Multi-Modal transport Hub. But in HSR's case we need to have a stable passenger base. The best place should be Nedumbassery- CIAL, which has annual passenger base of 4.8 million and CAGR of around 9% annually. And surely for an Airline passenger, HSR is indeed affordable and direct access to anywhere in Kerala, makes it an Instant hit among NRKS.

KOMET will help local Kochi based passengers to reach Nedumbassery Hub and will connect to VMH. I would see that logic more better than a stop at VMH.

That is a WONDERFUL idea, MI!! We MUST put it forward!!

Good, that some preliminary work on Kerala HSRC i.e., Route alignment is carried on.
It may take 2-3 yrs to get the final route alignment after due diligence with various sections of Society. Compensation to those ppl who's land may come in the way of HSRC , take another 2-3 yrs. Hope ppl of Kerala won't Knock the doors of the court.

So we can see the construction activity to start somewhere in Mid 2015.

i think there are 10 times more travellers to city than Airport! for example people frm TVM and kollam need not travel to CIAL but they travel to City for their day to day life! same as the case with north keralites! why shud they travel all the way to airport and get a connect from there?? the airport passengers can travel to vytilla and get a connection! that wud be a betr choice rite( considering the num of passengers)??

The passengers to city need to take the metro from Vyttila Hub anyway, so it doesn't make much difference.

http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/01155/25KI-SURVEY_1155724f.jpg

Primary Survey markings made on roads for HSR alignment

Primary Survey markings made on roads for HSR alignment

Is that where HSR will travel?

Is that where HSR will travel?

Its initial Alignment survey. More details will be gathered soon. The markings is made to see the number of LA for the project...

I am Extremely sorry to say ,Some how I am not getting Convinced about the whole bullet train service or the express highway story though all are looking forward to see it happen.

Reason - Suitability of such projects to the likes of kerala landscape. availability of land, Cost of land,Need for bridges, overall cost of the project. This money can be used elsewhere.

The fact that, waters of kerala which are the natural gift it has for transportation is still under utilized adds to my confusion.
and this just not mean the inland waters but also the vast shorrline it has from Trivandrum to Kazargode.

If you can travel by waters from TVM to Kazargode. why do u need to acquire so much of land make brdges, roads or railway line which cuts the already thin Land of kerala.

There are passenger ferry services available which can travel at the speed of 100+ kms per hour.
why not use this.

solution according to me should be.
1. inland waters connect to the main Water high way which is the sea shore.
2. 1 lakh core for Bullet train service whould be invested in research or procurement of vessels/technology and can also be used as subsidy for travel.

I am Extremely sorry to say ,Some how I am not getting Convinced about the whole bullet train service or the express highway story though all are looking forward to see it happen.

Reason - Suitability of such projects to the likes of kerala landscape. availability of land, Cost of land,Need for bridges, overall cost of the project. This money can be used elsewhere.

The fact that, waters of kerala which are the natural gift it has for transportation is still under utilized adds to my confusion.
and this just not mean the inland waters but also the vast shorrline it has from Trivandrum to Kazargode.

If you can travel by waters from TVM to Kazargode. why do u need to acquire so much of land make brdges, roads or railway line which cuts the already thin Land of kerala.

There are passenger ferry services available which can travel at the speed of 100+ kms per hour.
why not use this.

solution according to me should be.
1. inland waters connect to the main Water high way which is the sea shore.
2. 1 lakh core for Bullet train service whould be invested in research or procurement of vessels/technology and can also be used as subsidy for travel.

I dont think in inland waterways you can travel at 100km/hr. Cannot compare water transport with high speed train. Frequency, speed, capacity all matters. However trivandrum-kasargod waterway is another project running. Trivandrum-kottapuram will be phase1. The waterway will be much useful for goods and container transport. So passengers can take HSR and goods can go in ships.

The need here is that we need atleast one high speed transport system either rail or road since water and air are not viable options. Of rail and road rail is only practical with current kerala conditions.

I dont think in inland waterways you can travel at 100km/hr. Cannot compare water transport with high speed train. Frequency, speed, capacity all matters. However trivandrum-kasargod waterway is another project running. Trivandrum-kottapuram will be phase1. The waterway will be much useful for goods and container transport. So passengers can take HSR and goods can go in ships.

The need here is that we need atleast one high speed transport system either rail or road since water and air are not viable options. Of rail and road rail is only practical with current kerala conditions.

PPJ,

He meant this just not mean the inland waters but also the vast shorrline it has from Trivandrum to Kazargode.

Personally I think this is a great Idea :cheers:

^^ Brilliant idea. GOK should explore this..

PPJ,

He meant this just not mean the inland waters but also the vast shorrline it has from Trivandrum to Kazargode.

Personally I think this is a great Idea :cheers:

Even if it is seashore it has many issues,
1. Limit on frequency of operation and ships dont come cheap.
2. Cities with navigable ports are less.
3. Comfort of sea travel. Many will be finding themselves sea sick.
4. Rainy times sea travel will be harsh.
5. much less speed compared to HSR.

You cannot substitute train with ship in anyway. You wont see any country
having sea route as prime mode of high speed transportation. Sea and rail are different mode transport meant for different purposes.

Are you saying Express Highway,Bullet train service do not have issues ? think in terms of finance and the Kerala land topology and its dense population. This is where my confusion is. :-(

There is a port in TVM,Kollam,Alleppy,Kochi,Calicut, kannur.Bullet train service talks only about 4 halts.

and its not a ship, Its a ferry

Fastest Ferry is functioning in Oman - 100+km per hours. 450 Km in 5 hours.
http://www.theweek.co.om/discon.aspx?Cval=934
http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/shinascatamaran/
Gone are those days of Sea sickness and influence of Climate

Austal is a leading company based in Australia which is into manufacturing of such ferries.
We have a shipyard which is capable of doing so.
Here is their Catalog
http://www.austal.com/en/products-and-services/commercial-products/ferries-vehicle-passenger.aspx

Even if it is seashore it has many issues,
1. Limit on frequency of operation and ships dont come cheap.
2. Cities with navigable ports are less.
3. Comfort of sea travel. Many will be finding themselves sea sick.
4. Rainy times sea travel will be harsh.
5. much less speed compared to HSR.

You cannot substitute train with ship in anyway. You wont see any country
having sea route as prime mode of high speed transportation. Sea and rail are different mode transport meant for different purposes.

Hi PPJ,

If the requirement is High Speed Rail, as you say nothing else is an option.
But, Our requirement is faster transportation ,an alternative to the current IR system keeping in mind all the issues that can come with LA and heavy investment required. If you think about all these things, I believe the above said Idea holds good and I would support it.
Regarding Issues, we will get many more issues in HSR when it comes to implementation than going for a ferry service as he has mentioned.It will also help freight transportation.