So we don`t get to see much of Albanian cities.

This is Shkodër or Skadar. 90.000 inhabitants

http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/259_big.gif

http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/260_big.gif

http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/261_big.gif

http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/262_big.gif

http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/265_big.gif

http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/266_big.gif

http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/269_big.gif

http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/273_big.gif

http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/275_big.gif

http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/276_big.gif


http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/277_big.gif



the newest building is this mosque
http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/264_big.gif

very high percent of cars in Albania are Mercedes Benz. Maybe 90%
http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/263_big.gif

It looks like wild wild west :runaway:

Well, it's the poorest country in Europe

Well, it's the poorest country in Europe
there are users who will dispute this waiving with numbers from CIA factbook :D

http://www.offroaders.cz/fotoGalery/albania2003/DSCN1618.JPG
http://www.albanovaonline.com/immagini/chiesa/katedrale.jpg
http://www.ferieguiden.no/kontinent/europa/albania/bilder/bilde3.jpg
http://farsy.netfr.com/photos/ALB07.jpg
http://www.aths-travel.com/Album/shkodra7.jpg
http://www.aeci.ba/img/fotos/06shkoder.jpg
http://www.kfunigraz.ac.at/bib/aktuelles/hoeflechner/Roll/014_13a.jpg

that mosque was constructed by arab states.

I think it would have been better if they gave them some asphalt

That mosque is similar to New York's Mosque (for me)
http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/city_of_stars/images/10a_mosque.jpg
The same thing was in Afghanistan when Taleban was overthrowned. So After some time Saudis sent several thousand Qurans as humanitarian help.

well the best usage of money from Saudis was in Turkmenistan.

whole city was refurbished with 6 billion $

off course turkmenbashi spent huge amount on building his rotating golden statue but it makes it even more interesting

Ashghabat
http://www.thunderperfectmind.com/silkroad/turkmenbashi/IMG_1466.jpg
http://www.thunderperfectmind.com/silkroad/turkmenbashi/IMG_1476.jpg
http://www.thunderperfectmind.com/silkroad/turkmenbashi/IMG_1470.jpg
http://www.thunderperfectmind.com/silkroad/turkmenbashi/IMG_1478.jpg

That looks terribly depressing.:(

has some potential, but it looks extremly poor, but i guess these are old pics
this one is awesome
http://www.barakatravel.com/images/upload/273_big.gif

http://www.offroaders.cz/fotoGalery/albania2003/DSCN1618.JPG

Is that a UFO we see there above the road....or is that a NATO jet?

I thought it was a lamp but where are the wires???? So i think it's UFO. This city looks like Fallujah or Sadr City

well the best usage of money from Saudis was in Turkmenistan.

whole city was refurbished with 6 billion $

off course turkmenbashi spent huge amount on building his rotating golden statue but it makes it even more interesting

Ashghabat
http://www.thunderperfectmind.com/silkroad/turkmenbashi/IMG_1466.jpg
http://www.thunderperfectmind.com/silkroad/turkmenbashi/IMG_1476.jpg
http://www.thunderperfectmind.com/silkroad/turkmenbashi/IMG_1470.jpg
http://www.thunderperfectmind.com/silkroad/turkmenbashi/IMG_1478.jpg

ashgabat(and all turkmenistan) built by turkish firms and mostly turkish and turkmen moneys!!!

albania looks really poor! architecture is not so bad but they are look very old. and i think they need asphalt!!

It looks like wild wild west :runaway:

It reminded me of some Mexican villages and stuff....

Yeah, it's preatty bad. I hope they'll do something with their country becose true Albanians are cool people, Albanians from Kosovo and Metohija are scum.

For start they should build some roads, connect Albania with Serbia and Montenegro and Greece, stop supportind Albanian terrorists in Serbia and Montenegro, Greece and FYR Macedonia and then we'll see...I suppose Serbs and Greeks would agree to help them.

Albania interestingly doesn`t seem to support Kosovo Albanians. They occasionally arrest some gun transporters and so on

They have to change a lot. Long way to go. In fact - very little heard about this country in last years.

Turkmenistan got 10 billion $ from Saudi Arabia as a gift for independence!

The biggest problem with Albania is corruption. I guess the EU and other countries would like to help but the money doesn't ever reach the avarage Albanian.

I don't know, it's somewhat a forgotten country don't you think?

^^^^
I think Albania is not forgotten but a real fenomenon in Europe.

considering the history they are doing preety well.

you can still see bunkers all over the country. 700.000 of them exist in Albania!!! on 3 mil residents
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2098705.stm

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/Albania_bunkers.jpg

^^^^
I think Albania is not forgotten but a real fenomenon in Europe.

Fenomenon? Explain...

Fenomenon? Explain...
I's not explainable that is why it is a fenomenon :)

I's not explainable that is why it is a fenomenon :)

lol smarty pants.... ;)

I guess countries around Albania have some interest in it, in a good and bad way but the EU really has lost all relation with it and at the same time, the interest...

Alabania has been forgotten, in Western Europe at least....

I can't remember the last time I heard anything about Alabania in the news or the media/press...

I personally, have no idea what the country even looks like...

That's all what I ment by forgotten....

The biggest problem with Albania is corruption. I guess the EU and other countries would like to help but the money doesn't ever reach the avarage Albanian.

I don't know, it's somewhat a forgotten country don't you think?

Average Albanians do not need European moneys. Despite what it seams like extreme poverty, that's just a facade created in the last 14 years.

Albania is not a cheap country. Holidays in Macedonia and Montenegro are actually cheaper then in Albania it self. I even heard people returning from some other East European contries and saying that there was cheaper then in Albania.

The problem is with the Central Goverment and Local Administrations doing the job they got elected to.

If you check Municipality records, I'm sure that those unpaved road results "paved" at least twice in the last 10 years.

No one pay taxes in Shkodër (Singidumun it is not Skadar, we are not in the Serbian forum here, if you haven't realised that), and less then 20% pays for the electricity they use.

As for the bunkers, they were "great" as love-nests or make-shift toilets.

only if you are blind you didn`t notice that I wrote "Shkodër/Skadar" and that it is on wikipedia as well

What is wikipedia? And I saw what you wrote.

^ Online encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page). It's really quite accurate considering it depends on user contributions.

Interesting photos... some beautiful scenes, but certainly in decay.

Serbian epic poem - building of Skadar on Bojana:


ЗИДАЊЕ СКАДРА
Град градила три брата рођена,
До три брата, три Мрњавчевића:
Једно беше Вукашине краље,
Друго бјеше Угљеша војвода,
Треће бјеше Мрњавчевић Гојко;
Град градили Скадар на Бојани,
Град градили три године дана,
Три године са триста мајстора;
Не могаше темељ подигнути,
А камои саградити града:
Што мајстори за дан га саграде,
То све вила за ноћ обаљује.

Кад настала година четврта,
Тада виче са планине вила:
"Не мучи се, Вукашине краље,
Не мучи се и не харчи блага!
Не мож, краље, темељ подигнути,
А камоли саградити града,
Док не нађеш два слична имена,
Док ненађеш Стојуи Стојана,
А обоје братаи сестрицу,
Да зазиђеш кули у темеља:
Тако ће се темељ обдржати,
И тако ћеш саградити града."

Кад то зачу Вукашине краље,
Он дозива слугу Десимира:
"Десимире, моје чедо драго,
Досад си ми био вјерна слуга,
А одсаде моје чедо драго!
Хватај, сине, коње у хинтове,
И понеси шест товара блага;
Иди, сине, преко б'јела св'јета,
Те ти тражи, сине, Стоју и Стојана,
А обоје брата и сестрицу;
Јали отми, јал' за благо купи,
Доведи их Скадру на Бојану,
Да зиђемо кули у темеља,
Не би л' нам се темељ обдржао,
И не би ли саградили града."

Кад то зачу слуга Десимире,
Он ухвати коњеу хинтове,
И понесе шест товара блага;
Оде слуга преко б'јела света,
Оде тражит' два слична имена:
Тражи слугу Стоју и Стојана,
Тражи слуга три године дана,
Ал' не нађе два слична имена,
Ал' не нађе Стоје и Стојана,
Па се врну Скадру на Бојану,
Даде краљу коње и хинтове,
И даде му шест товара блага:
Ја не нађох два слична имена,
Ја не нађох Стоје и Стојана."

Кад то зачу Вукашине краљу,
Он подвикну Рада неимара,
Раде викну три стотин' мајстора:
Гради краље Скадар на Бојани,
Краље гради, вила обаљује,
- Не да вила темељ подигнути,
А камоли саградити града!
Па дозивље из планине вила:
"Море, чу ли, Вукашине краљу,
Не мучи се и не харчи блага!
Но ето сте три брата рођена,
У свакога има вјерна љуба;
Чија сјутра на Бојану дође
И донесе мајсторима ручак,
Зиђите је кули у темеља:
Тако ће се темељ обдржати,
Тако ћете саградити града."

Кад то зачу Вукашине краљу,
Он дозива два брата рођена:
"Чујете ли, моја браћо драга,
Ето вила са планине виче,
Није вајде што харчимо благо,
Не да вила темељ подигнути,
А камоли саградити града!
Још говори са планине вила:
Ев' ми јесмо три брата рођена,
У свакога има вјерна љуба;
Чија сјутра на Бојану дође
И донесе мајсторима ручак,
Да ј' у темељ кули узидамо:
Тако ће се темељ обдржати,
Тако ћемо саградити града.
Но је л', браћо, Божја вјера тврда
Да ниједан љуби не докаже,
Већ на срећу да им оставимо,
Која сјутра на Бојану дође?"
И ту Божју вјеру зададоше
Да ниједан љуби не докаже.

У том их је ноћца застанула,
Отидоше у бијеле дворе,
Вечераше господску вечеру.
Ал' да видиш чуда великога!
Краљ Вукашин вјеру погазио,
Те он први својој љуби каза:
"Да се чуваш, моја вјерна љубо!
Немој сјутра на Бојану доћи,
Ни донијет' ручак мајсторима,
Јер ћеш своју изгубити главу,
Зидаће те кули у темеља!"
И Угљеша вјеру погазио,
И он каза својој вјерној љуби:
"Не превар' се вјерна моја љубо!
Немој сјутра на Бојану доћи,
Ни донијет' мајсторима ручак,
Јера хоћеш млада погинути,
Зидаће те кули у темеља!"
Млади Гојко вјеру не погази,
И он својој љуби не доказа.

Кад ујутру јутро освануло,
Поранише три Мрњавчевића,
Отидоше на град на Бојану.
Земан дође да се носи ручак,
А редак је госпођи краљици.
Она оде својој јетрвици,
Јетрвици, љуби Угљешиној:
"Чу ли мене, моја јетрвице!
Нешто ме је забољела глава,
Тебе здравље! пребољет' не могу;
Но понеси мајсторима ручак."
Говорила љуба Угљешина:
"О јетрво, госпођо краљице!
Нешто мене забољела рука,
Тебе здравље пребољет' не могу;
Већ ти збори млађој јетрвици."
Она оде млађој јетрвици:
"Јетрвице, млада Гојковице!
Нешто ме је забољела глава,
Тебе здравље! преболјет' не могу;
Но понеси мајсторима ручак."
Ал' говори Гојковица млада:
"Чу ли, нано, госпођо краљице!
Ја сам рада тебе послушати,
Но ми лудо чедо некупато,
А бијело платно неиспрато."
Вели њојзи госпођа краљица:
"Иди," каже, "моја јетрвице,
те однеси мајсторима ручак,
Ја ћу твоје изапрати платно,
А јетрва чедо окупати."
Нема шта ће Гојковица млада,
Већ понесе мајсторима ручак.

Кад је била на воду Бојану,
Угледа је Мрњавчевић Гојко;
Јунаку се срце ражалило,
Жао му је љубе вијернице,
Жао му је чеда у колијевци
Ђе остаде од мјесеца дана;
Па од лица сузе просипаше.
Угледа га танана невјеста,
Кротко ходи, док до њега приђе
, "Што је тебе, добри господару,
Те ти рониш сузе од образа?"
Ал' говори Мрњавчевић Гојко:
"Зло је моја вијернице љубо!
Имао сам од злата јабуку,
Па ми данас паде у Бојану,
Те је жалим, прегорет' не могу!"
Не сјећа се танана невјеста,
Но бесједи своме господару:
"Моли Бога ти за твоје здравље,
А салићеш и бољу јабуку!"

Тад јунаку грђе жао било,
Па на страну одвратио главу,
Не шће више ни гледати љубу;
А дођоше два Мрњавчевића,
Два ђевера Гојковице младе,
Узеше је за бијеле руке,
Поведоше у град да уграде,
Подвикнуше Рада неимара,
Раде викну до триста мајстора;
Ал' се смије танана невјеста,
Она мисли да је шале ради.
Турише је у град уграђиват';
Оборише до триста мајстора,
Оборише дрвље и камење,
Узидаше дори до кољена:
Још се смије танана невјеста,
Још се нада да је шале ради;
Оборише до триста мајстора,
Оборише дрвље и камење,
Узидаше дори до појаса:
Тад отежа дрвље и камење;
Онда виђе шта је јадну нађе,
Љуто писну како љута гуја,
Па замоли два мила ђевера:
"Не дајте ме младу и зелену!"
То се моли, ал' јој не помаже,
Јер ђевери у њу и не гледе.

Тад се прође срама и зазора,
Паке моли свога господара:
"Не дај мене, добри господару,
Да ме младу у град узидају!
Но ти прати мојој старој мајци:
Моја мајка има доста блага,
Нек ти купи роба ил' робињу.
Те зидајте кули у темеља."
То се моли, но јој не помаже.

А кад виђе танана невјеста
Да јој више молба не помаже,
Тад се моли Раду неимару:
"Богом брате, Раде неимаре,
Остави ми прозор на дојкама,
Истури ми моје б'јеле дојке,
Када дође, мој нејаки Јово,
Каде дође, да подоји дојке!"
То је Раде за братство примио,
Остави јој прозор на дојкама,
Па јој дојке упоље истури,
Каде дође нејаки Јоване,
Каде дође, да подоји дојке.
Опет тужна, Рада дозивала:
"Богом брате, Раде неимаре,
Остави ми прозор на очима,
Да ја гледам ка бијелу двору
Кад ће мене Јова доносити
И ка дворy опет односити."
И то Раде за братство примио,
Остави јој прозор на очима,
Те да гледа ка бијелу двору
Каде ће јој Јова доносити
И ка двору опет односити.

И тако је у град уградише,
па доносе чедо у кол'јевци,
Те га доји за неђељу дана,
По неђељи изгубила гласа;
Ал' ђетету онђе иде храна:
Дојише га за годину дана,
Како таде, тако и остаде,
Да и данас онђе иде храна:
Зарад' чуда и зарад' лијека,
Која жена не има млијека.

???

^ It's okay, Backdoorman. You got the city, they can keep the poem. :)

What the f***?
Can someone please erase Skadar on the title of this topic?
What is Skadar supposed to mean?
The name of the city is Shkodër and is a city in Nortwestern Albania.

Holy ****!. Cmon guys! Get over this city name and focus on the discussing things that matter for real. Scutari/Shkodra/Scodra/Skadar whatever you like to call it used to be one of most developed cities in the Balkans some 2000 years ago and continued to play an important role until the 1940's when the communists began to rule the country. Since then the city has been underserved. During communism the city and its people were collectively punished for being agains the system and the same thing is still happening as the socialists have never won any elections in the city. You can easily count employed people in the city and the most of the people live under the poverty line.

Yes it is sad and the city has fantastic development opprtunities because of its position near the Adriatic coast and Montenegro. It also has good potential for tourism. The beach is awsome and alpine touris is also an option as the region of Malesi e Madhe, in the norht of city, is a real juel of nature.

Too bad the government is not treating it fairly. Oh and they do not pay taxes because they do not receve public services and they do not have to pay them unless teh government starts behaving like a government for all its people and not just for its supporters.

Regarding the political position of Albania in the region, the country has promissed to act as a factor of stability in the region and that is what it is doing, will and go on doing and thats what its people want. The relations with Montenegro and Macedonia are very good at high levels and also albanians have put Macedonia and Montenegro in their favorite tourist destinations. The VISA regime is liberalized among the countries. I can only hope to see Albania and Serbia at same good level of relationship. But please, for gods sake, keep (ultra)nationalism out of these forums.

Illiricum , what fairy tales have you been watching?
First , Shkodër was not anti-governmet during comunism.Who told you this?
Second , they have no potential like you are saying they do.
The beach is in Velipoje which is a village in Shkoder County far from the actual city.
The infrastructure here as it is all over Northern Albania is disastrous.
Shkoder is one of Albania's poorest cities.
Its old history deserves to be mentioned but Shkoder now is sh*t as is every city up North.
You are seriously exagerating here

Singdurum , the name Skadar is provocative.
It's like me opening a topic about Belgrade and putting it like Belgrade/ Beogradi ,Jugoslavija
Shkoder is a city in Albania and its name dervies from Scutari , this is a historical fact.
Skadar is serbian name for the city , it has nothing to do with it and it shouldnt be in the title.

I did not say Shodra is a developed city. It is not recieving public services and that is the reason why they do not pay taxes. Now I am sure you are a left wing guy and I have no objection to that. Shkodra is recognized as the starting point for for the development of the north of the country where there has been no public investment for more then 8 years, transforming this region of Albania in "sh*t" as you say. The people of Scodra are not some kind of Albania's black sheep. Scodra was contrary to the system until more then 30% of the population was pushed on exile from the city and people from the center and the south of Albania, primarily students, were transfered to Scodra. The city was also the where the democratic movement of the early '90-s began. Who said infrastructure was good? On the other hand who told you infrastrucutre is at good levels in Albania at all? Be real man! You dream of Albania as you see Tirana, which appart from the downtown area, is poor and massively unemployed. A couple of nice building don't mean nothing at all. Tirana still remains the city where the streets have no names, where you have to get a private electrical pump to get water if you live anywhere above the third floor, where bars and pubs are a great way for cleaning dirty money, the traffic is disastrous and the most polluted city in Europe. Yes the center has been developing very well but what about the other part of the city? Who told the south is developed in Albania? Do you have any clue abpout unemployment rates is Korca, Tepelena, Gramsh, Elbasani, Permet, Argyrocastro etc? Albania has 71 cities and of all this Tirana, Durres, Vlora and Saranda have a descent situation. Other cities my friend are worse then what you think of with no infrastructure, not electricity, no potable water and with less schools year by year, as a result of the lack of public investments.
By potential I mean good POSSIBILITIES of economic development and not DEVELOPMENT itself, and yes, Scodra has a lot of potential. Never forget that Albania is pushing into increasing trade with Montenegro and Macedonia, and Scodra, as the bordering city with Montenegro has to play a big part and get big part of the outcome.
Getting back on what Scodra position was during the communist regime I advise to go an read more stuff about it at the Central State Archive in Tirana.
And finally you have no right judge my opinions as fairy tales. You can agree or not, that's your right. I did not offend you in any way so I would appreciate if you do the same.

Regards

I did not say Shodra is a developed city. It is not recieving public services and that is the reason why they do not pay taxes. Now I am sure you are a left wing guy and I have no objection to that. Shkodra is recognized as the starting point for for the development of the north of the country where there has been no public investment for more then 8 years, transforming this region of Albania in "sh*t" as you say. The people of Scodra are not some kind of Albania's black sheep. Scodra was contrary to the system until more then 30% of the population was pushed on exile from the city and people from the center and the south of Albania, primarily students, were transfered to Scodra.

I am not a left wing guy.
I am simply speaking the truth.
Most of today's Shkodra is northerners from other cities and villages , that's how the city was formed during the centuries.
It was a movement of populations from the northern surrounding areas.

The city was also the where the democratic movement of the early '90-s began.

No , Kavaje was.

Who said infrastructure was good? On the other hand who told you infrastrucutre is at good levels in Albania at all? Be real man! You dream of Albania as you see Tirana, which appart from the downtown area, is poor and massively unemployed. A couple of nice building don't mean nothing at all. Tirana still remains the city where the streets have no names, where you have to get a private electrical pump to get water if you live anywhere above the third floor, where bars and pubs are a great way for cleaning dirty money, the traffic is disastrous and the most polluted city in Europe. Yes the center has been developing very well but what about the other part of the city?

I disagree.
Tirana is not only downtown.
The surrounding areas have drastically improved.


Who told the south is developed in Albania? Do you have any clue abpout unemployment rates is Korca, Tepelena, Gramsh, Elbasani, Permet, Argyrocastro etc? Albania has 71 cities and of all this Tirana, Durres, Vlora and Saranda have a descent situation. Other cities my friend are worse then what you think of with no infrastructure, not electricity, no potable water and with less schools year by year, as a result of the lack of public investments.

Vlora is a fast developing city.
Same thing goes for saranda.
Infrastructure in the South is night and day difference compare to the North.

By potential I mean good POSSIBILITIES of economic development and not DEVELOPMENT itself, and yes, Scodra has a lot of potential. Never forget that Albania is pushing into increasing trade with Montenegro and Macedonia, and Scodra, as the bordering city with Montenegro has to play a big part and get big part of the outcome.
Getting back on what Scodra position was during the communist regime I advise to go an read more stuff about it at the Central State Archive in Tirana.

Shkodra has little potential.
What does it offer?
The area around the city is swamp land.
The city itslef looks like sh*t.
It has no coastline , it has nothing that offers to the economy exept it being a city with dirty streets and buildings.
How many major factories are there in Shkoder?


And finally you have no right judge my opinions as fairy tales. You can agree or not, that's your right. I did not offend you in any way so I would appreciate if you do the same.

Regards

Ok.
Agreed.

Illiricum , dua te shtoj diçka tjetër se nuk kërkoj të hap debat lidhur me temën.
Kryesorja është titulli provokues që hapësi i temës i cili është moderator e ka lejuar.
Nuk ka nevojë për ta zgjatur sepse siç e shikon këto legena kanë folur keq për Shqipërinë duke filluar me kët serbin e pastaj ajo kurva tjetër Spotless Mind me të cilën jam zënë më parë këtu.
Prandaj ta lejmë me kaq apo jo?

Scodra existed since King Gnetius and Queen Teuta and there is no documentation refereing to it as a city being formed merely as a consequence of population movements.
Which surrounding of Tirana are you talking about? Cause people are still poor and unemplyed and aged pensions are still lower then in 1990 according to what the government told the people 2 days ago. An average pension is about 65-70$ and the average salary is at the level of 100-120$, making life a real nightmare even if you in work in 2-3 places. While the pensions in the rural areas are at level of 30$. The good scenario in maro economic development never showed to be more food on Albanians table. Never forget Albanian chldren are the worse nurished in Europe. So yes, Twin Towers, Sky Tower, European Trade Center and the Blloku area. It is true about what you say regading the south. There are some serious investments there. Never forget though where the money came from. Trafficking played a major role in developing the south as a result of the fact that most people trafficked departed from Vlora. The money was invested, but did that bring any good to the people of the city, are they reacher now?
Why don't you understand that as long as there are no public investments, the north will still be poor. Never count the racism Ghegs face from the Tosks despite Albanians prefere not to say this. How well are Ghegs represented in the current government? How well is the Tosk "majority" serving the need of the Ghegs in the north. But never mind "Albania is a great country, the prime minister is corrupted but he is also a great dude, the Ghegs are underserved but who cares about the north; unemplyement is increasing and so is corruption; the only advocate people have is a TV Show called "Fiks Fare", but who cares Albania is a great place to visit, but I doubt is a great place to live. Tirana is a great place to have a coffee, but how do the people live there? Do they get to the end of the month? Is the famous 6% GDP annual growth offering them more employment or food? But who cares our prime minister is a great man. He got divorced and married to a young girl. For that he is cool. He has a private plane and owns a chopper company as well as bus transport company. He has a 200.000$ Mercedes and luxurios 2 floor appartment in the center of Tirana and he did all this with only 32.000$ cause he is a cool man, not just a corrupted man. Give me a break! Let alone the opposition who does nothing better but making uthopic promises just to get the elections this year. This, my friend, is real Albania, and not the one people see while sitting comfortably at Sky Bar, having a Red Bull while laghing with the mayor insulting jornalists and the people that live in the surroundings of the city, and in the mean time enjoying the view.

PS: Are there any factories in Tirana, Valona, Saranda, Korca, Pogradec, Tepelene or elsewhere? Albania my friend is not producing anything

Scodra existed since King Gnetius and Queen Teuta and there is no documentation refereing to it as a city being formed merely as a consequence of population movements.
Which surrounding of Tirana are you talking about? Cause people are still poor and unemplyed and aged pensions are still lower then in 1990 according to what the government told the people 2 days ago. An average pension is about 65-70$ and the average salary is at the level of 100-120$, making life a real nightmare even if you in work in 2-3 places. While the pensions in the rural areas are at level of 30$. The good scenario in maro economic development never showed to be more food on Albanians table. Never forget Albanian chldren are the worse nurished in Europe. So yes, Twin Towers, Sky Tower, European Trade Center and the Blloku area. It is true about what you say regading the south. There are some serious investments there. Never forget though where the money came from. Trafficking played a major role in developing the south as a result of the fact that most people trafficked departed from Vlora. The money was invested, but did that bring any good to the people of the city, are they reacher now?
Why don't you understand that as long as there are no public investments, the north will still be poor. Never count the racism Ghegs face from the Tosks despite Albanians prefere not to say this. How well are Ghegs represented in the current government? How well is the Tosk "majority" serving the need of the Ghegs in the north. But never mind "Albania is a great country, the prime minister is corrupted but he is also a great dude, the Ghegs are underserved but who cares about the north; unemplyement is increasing and so is corruption; the only advocate people have is a TV Show called "Fiks Fare", but who cares Albania is a great place to visit, but I doubt is a great place to live. Tirana is a great place to have a coffee, but how do the people live there? Do they get to the end of the month? Is the famous 6% GDP annual growth offering them more employment or food? But who cares our prime minister is a great man. He got divorced and married to a young girl. For that he is cool. He has a private plane and owns a chopper company as well as bus transport company. He has a 200.000$ Mercedes and luxurios 2 floor appartment in the center of Tirana and he did all this with only 32.000$ cause he is a cool man, not just a corrupted man. Give me a break! Let alone the opposition who does nothing better but making uthopic promises just to get the elections this year. This, my friend, is real Albania, and not the one people see while sitting comfortably at Sky Bar, having a Red Bull while laghing with the mayor insulting jornalists and the people that live in the surroundings of the city, and in the mean time enjoying the view.

PS: Are there any factories in Tirana, Valona, Saranda, Korca, Pogradec, Tepelene or elsewhere? Albania my friend is not producing anything

IlliricumSacrum , do ishte më mirë sikur të flisnim shqip që mos të na kuptonin këto.
Nuk duket mirë kur flasim keq për vendin tonë dhe nuk besoj se duhet të ketë përçarje ndërmjet krahinave.
Të kërkoj falje nëse u ofendove me ato që shkruajta , ndoshta u tregova i papërgjegjshëm. :cheers:

Is there tension between north and south Albanians?, do they get along?, Does Albania want to annex Kosovo?

No tensions between north and south but the north does not recieve public investment because the north is mostly right wing and the south is mostly left wing and the current is a left government. Now this is quite e problem because there is hardly any gheg in the government and it seems ghegs are constantly punished for not voting the Socialist Party. Really sh*ty. Now this is a big problem and needs to be solved exactly because there is no conflictual situation between the north and south. The north is less develped then the south but this gets agravated when you think that the south is sh*t itself. The south is being built to serve the needs of the tourists and is becoming a great tourist destination for tourists; Tirana and Durres are being built to serve investors and multinational companies; the north is being continously destroyed and people are getting poorer as times go by. That's why I think that visiting Albania as a tourist is a great experience in every dimension but being an citizen of Albania sucks. Politicians have screwed anything up. It is sad but it is real and albanians should keep all of this in mind when they cast their votes this summer and protect their votes, too, so that they are the one electing their government. If election will be free this year things will probably go smoothly. And by the way IMF is destrying the country in the same way they did with the countries in the southern hemisphere and Albanians don't seem to understand that.

Regarding Kosovo. There is a political party in Albania which opts for "Great Albania". They never get more then 1% of the votes so you can understand Albanians have no goal in unification with Kosovo. Kosovars, on the other hand, are working in creating a Kosovar identity is derived from the Albanian identity. We should also stress that you can easily tell if someon is from Albania or Kosovo despite they both are Albanians. So Albanians in Albania identify Kosovars as Albanians but hardly see them as their cocitizens. So no way Albania will try to anex or unify itself with Kosovo. The Albanian government will work to assure that the minority rights are respected for the Albanian minorites in the Balkan, as well as respecting other minorities within itself. Balkan countries are very heterogenous and that should ne used as an advantage and this is the way Tirana is working towards. Tirana won't do anything that will harm or bring tension to the region. The people of (The repiblic of) Albania see ethnic and religous tolerance as great values and they will hardly give this up for any reason at all. Tirana has been working great with Skopje and Podgorica and will (hopefully and with some good will) do the same with Belgrade once the Kosovo issue is solved, hopefully in a way that satisfies both Serbs and Albanian kosovars.

I agree with you about the lack of public investment in the North, however, if you look at it more closely, the public investement that the goverment can provide cannot really make that much of a great difference. I would say that the North is less developed that the South, that is the North without the city of Shkodra, because of the actions of the pseudo-communist regime, rather than the currrent socialist party. For the situation in Shkodra i think both socialists and communists have responsibility. The current party hasn't made any good decisions about the Albanian economy, except for a few stabilizing moves before 2000, and if there is development it is because of private indviduals. It is funny how the leftist party is the one that is currently discriminating. Another sign that left and right doesn't mean much.

I agree but the SP is like a big family where Nano is the godfather and unfortunately he got only a few people to "baptise" in the north. Do not forget that Nano had a very admirable political position during the dictatorship. You are right, right and left do not mean anything in Albania. I am dessapointed by Edi Rama though. He recently was taken as accountable (by the governement) for a loss of 50% in the construction business, the main business in the country. So yes, he did a good job once, but he is constantly failing and is just one of Nano's soldiers now. Albanains lack a choice in these elections. International Monetary Fund and the World Bank messed up a lot recently, too. The situation is weird. They say Albania is getting richer, but Albanian are getting poorer. The truth is that rich people are getting richer, multinaitonals are having fun in Albania, and for that matter in the rest of South East Europe. Albania is being projected with tourists and investors in mind, instead of being projected with the wellbeing of its citizens in mind.


PS: One funny fact is that Albania (and our beloved neighbours) has a lot of warning notes in tourists sites, especially US governement ones. While the US is literally less safe according to crime stats :) :cheers:

PS: One funny fact is that Albania (and our beloved neighbours) has a lot of warning notes in tourists sites, especially US governement ones. While the US is literally less safe according to crime stats

this is what pisses me off. its not only US alone. its also the neighboring coutries. its a stereotype developed out off no real example. its funny everytime i read a western europeans trip report on albania, all mention that the people were very good natured, friendly and helpful. they also say the truth. buildings look like sh!t.

illiricum i find alot of the things youve mentioned true. and like you i hate that positive attitude most albs have about albania when theres no progress at all. "ne dhjet cjet do beher shqiperia si gjith evropa" :bash:

if you dont mind me asking, in what ways you think can albania improve its economic situation? how? what markets should it enter, etc....

shnet

1-Monopoles should be turned down immediately. They have been built by stealing our money.

2-Farmers should organize into bigger groups to compete and fill the internal market. They should enjoy fiscal facilities.

3-Invest in transport whether in airports, ports, roads or railways.

4-Invest in petroleum so that it is of good quality fills at least the internal needs.

5-Increase the public investments in the north which will lead to less unemployment.

6-Reduce the quote paid for social insurance which will lead to more people paying it. More people paying it will mean higher pensions.

7-DON'T allow multinational coorporations take over the whole market leaving Albanians with nothing.

8-Liberalise the energy market.

...and so on and so forth....

thanks for replying.

ive always wondered why albania doesnt have a major cheese brand(exporting) or something. bosnians have their own cheese and it taste like crap(no offense to bosnians). i mean there are alot livestock downthere and shepherding has been part of albanian culture. most of the tribes in 1300s were semi-nomadic transhuman. it think albania can produce at lower cost.
or i could be wrong and thinking of this stuff because im hungry. :lol: