Penang-Butterworth Underwater Tunnel [Archive]

johan is

March 4th, 2013, 04:45 AM

mahathir approved it? never heard before. Maybe you can show us your reference if you have it.

even the 1st bridge, mahathir contributed nothing. the PLUS webpage somehow twisted the history and add some "contribution" for Mahathir.^^

Jumaat Mac 31, 2006

Jambatan kedua Pulau Pinang akan dibina

http://mstar.com.my/berita/cerita.asp?file=/2006/3/31/TERKINI/Mutakhir/Jambatan_kedua_Pulau_Pinang_akan_dibina&sec=mstar_berita

PULAU PINANG: Bagi rakyat Pulau Pinang yang berulang-alik dari tanah besar dan sebelah pulau, kini mereka boleh menarik nafas lega apabila projek jambatan kedua akhirnya akan dilaksanakan dalam Rancangan Malaysia Kesembilan (RMK9).

Pengumuman Perdana Menteri Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi mengenai projek jambatan kedua itu semasa membentangkan RMK9 di Dewan Rakyat hari ini itu akan memberi laluan alternatif masuk-keluar dari Pulau Pinang.

Jambatan Pulau Pinang sedia ada sepanjang 13 kilometer siap dibina pada tahun 1986 yang menghubungkan GeorgetownSeberang Jaya namun lima belas tahun selepas itu, laluan jambatan berkenaan menjadi begitu sesak terutamanya pada waktu puncak.

Kesesakan yang semakin serius itu menyebabkan kerajaan negeri Pulau Pinang meminta satu lagi jambatan pada tahun 2000 dan pada tahun 2001 Menteri Kerja Raya Datuk Seri S. Samy Vellu mengumumkan pembinaan jambatan kedua Pulau Pinang sepanjang 7.6 kilometer dengan menghubungkan Bagan Ajam, Seberang Prai Utara (SPU) ke Bagan Jermal, dekat Georgetown.

Cadangan asal pembinaan jambatan kedua itu memang menarik apabila sebahagian daripada laluan jambatan itu adalah di bawah dasar laut dan sebahagian lagi di atas pulau buatan.

Projek dengan anggaran kos RM2 bilion di laluan Jajaran Utara itu bagaimanapun tidak dipersetujui oleh kerajaan negeri yang mahukan jambatan kedua itu menghubungi tanah bahagian selatan di tanah besar setelah jambatan yang sedia ada menghubungi kawasan tengah di tanah besar itu.

Projek itu akhirnya "terdiam" begitu sahaja setelah kerajaan menangguhkan semua pembinaan projek mega akibat kegawatan ekonomi pada 1997.

Bagaimanapun, Isnin lepas, Samy Vellu mengumumkan bahawa kerajaan telah memulakan kerja-kerja mengenal pasti jajaran di laluan selatan tanah besar bagi meneruskan projek jambatan kedua itu.

Laluan selatan walaupun lebih panjang iaitu 23.6 km berbanding dengan laluan utara 9.2 km, kosnya dianggar lebih rendah, disebabkan pembinaan terowong dasar laut bagi laluan utara yang rumit dan memerlukan kepakaran asing dan komponen import yang besar yang mengakibatkan kehilangan tukaran wang asing.

Sebaliknya, laluan selatan memerlukan pembinaan jambatan sahaja dan dapat dikendalikan sepenuhnya oleh kepakaran tempatan dengan komponen tempatan yang tinggi, di samping memberi peluang kepada kontraktor-kontraktor dan pekerja-pekerja tempatan.

Bekas Perdana Menteri Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad dalam satu ceramah bertajuk "Membangunkan Negara" di Universiti Sains Malaysia (USM) baru-baru ini berkata, pembinaan jambatan di Pulau Pinang bukanlah sekadar membina sebuah jambatan, ia harus dilihat secara keseluruhan yang boleh menjanakan pendapatan kepada semua pihak termasuk para penjual nasi lemak kepada buruh-buruh yang bekerja di situ.

Sememangnya, pembinaan jambatan kedua di laluan selatan dapat mengagih, memangkin serta menjanakan pertumbuhan ekonomi ke kawasankawasan baru selain daripada Georgetown dan Butterworth.

Kawasan-kawasan yang akan mendapat manfaat daripada pembinaan jambatan kedua itu ialah Juru ke Nibong Tebal, Wilayah Batu Kawan dan Wilayah Transkrian di Seberang Perai Selatan serta kawasan Bayan Baru, Bayan Lepas, Teluk Kumbar sehingga Balik Pulau di bahagian pulau, kawasan selatan Kedah dan utara Perak. - BERNAMA

zhaochuan

March 4th, 2013, 04:47 AM

^^ Sarawak's GDP is bigger than what many Malaysians never realised is simply because of primary industries including O/G. Divided by a small base population, you get high GDP per capita. This high per capita is reflected amongst the "business class" of Sarawakians.

As for Penang. Penang has a very high levels of traditional businesses that may not necessary reflect in GDP. This is because many Chinese or even the Mamaks have inheritary businesses that are proprietary and a lack of reporting to the authorities and tax filings. In many countries internationally, they called this as "informal economy". (comparing to Selangor/KL, even some restaurants or hawker centres are run by Sdn Bhd)

Our manufacturing era is long gone. In fact today, manufacturing is no longer the no.1 sector in Malaysia - taken over by Services. Many of the manufacturing SMEs in Penang are unfortunately doing very lacklustrely and some have shifted overseas. But more importantly, due to geographical reasons, some of the Penang-based companies produce some of their outputs from KL/Selangor or places like Kulim instead.

Penang needs to boost its infrastructure and encourage the growth of Services. With this, then we can expect more Commercial-type Towers and Shopping Malls to rise in Penang.

Penang do not need too much shopping malls like what KL have, Penang have its own unique identity

zhaochuan

March 4th, 2013, 04:48 AM

Jumaat Mac 31, 2006

Jambatan kedua Pulau Pinang akan dibina

http://mstar.com.my/berita/cerita.asp?file=/2006/3/31/TERKINI/Mutakhir/Jambatan_kedua_Pulau_Pinang_akan_dibina&sec=mstar_berita

PULAU PINANG: Bagi rakyat Pulau Pinang yang berulang-alik dari tanah besar dan sebelah pulau, kini mereka boleh menarik nafas lega apabila projek jambatan kedua akhirnya akan dilaksanakan dalam Rancangan Malaysia Kesembilan (RMK9).

Pengumuman Perdana Menteri Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi mengenai projek jambatan kedua itu semasa membentangkan RMK9 di Dewan Rakyat hari ini itu akan memberi laluan alternatif masuk-keluar dari Pulau Pinang.

Jambatan Pulau Pinang sedia ada sepanjang 13 kilometer siap dibina pada tahun 1986 yang menghubungkan GeorgetownSeberang Jaya namun lima belas tahun selepas itu, laluan jambatan berkenaan menjadi begitu sesak terutamanya pada waktu puncak.

Kesesakan yang semakin serius itu menyebabkan kerajaan negeri Pulau Pinang meminta satu lagi jambatan pada tahun 2000 dan pada tahun 2001 Menteri Kerja Raya Datuk Seri S. Samy Vellu mengumumkan pembinaan jambatan kedua Pulau Pinang sepanjang 7.6 kilometer dengan menghubungkan Bagan Ajam, Seberang Prai Utara (SPU) ke Bagan Jermal, dekat Georgetown.

Cadangan asal pembinaan jambatan kedua itu memang menarik apabila sebahagian daripada laluan jambatan itu adalah di bawah dasar laut dan sebahagian lagi di atas pulau buatan.

Projek dengan anggaran kos RM2 bilion di laluan Jajaran Utara itu bagaimanapun tidak dipersetujui oleh kerajaan negeri yang mahukan jambatan kedua itu menghubungi tanah bahagian selatan di tanah besar setelah jambatan yang sedia ada menghubungi kawasan tengah di tanah besar itu.

Projek itu akhirnya "terdiam" begitu sahaja setelah kerajaan menangguhkan semua pembinaan projek mega akibat kegawatan ekonomi pada 1997.

Bagaimanapun, Isnin lepas, Samy Vellu mengumumkan bahawa kerajaan telah memulakan kerja-kerja mengenal pasti jajaran di laluan selatan tanah besar bagi meneruskan projek jambatan kedua itu.

Laluan selatan walaupun lebih panjang iaitu 23.6 km berbanding dengan laluan utara 9.2 km, kosnya dianggar lebih rendah, disebabkan pembinaan terowong dasar laut bagi laluan utara yang rumit dan memerlukan kepakaran asing dan komponen import yang besar yang mengakibatkan kehilangan tukaran wang asing.

Sebaliknya, laluan selatan memerlukan pembinaan jambatan sahaja dan dapat dikendalikan sepenuhnya oleh kepakaran tempatan dengan komponen tempatan yang tinggi, di samping memberi peluang kepada kontraktor-kontraktor dan pekerja-pekerja tempatan.

Bekas Perdana Menteri Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad dalam satu ceramah bertajuk "Membangunkan Negara" di Universiti Sains Malaysia (USM) baru-baru ini berkata, pembinaan jambatan di Pulau Pinang bukanlah sekadar membina sebuah jambatan, ia harus dilihat secara keseluruhan yang boleh menjanakan pendapatan kepada semua pihak termasuk para penjual nasi lemak kepada buruh-buruh yang bekerja di situ.

Sememangnya, pembinaan jambatan kedua di laluan selatan dapat mengagih, memangkin serta menjanakan pertumbuhan ekonomi ke kawasankawasan baru selain daripada Georgetown dan Butterworth.

Kawasan-kawasan yang akan mendapat manfaat daripada pembinaan jambatan kedua itu ialah Juru ke Nibong Tebal, Wilayah Batu Kawan dan Wilayah Transkrian di Seberang Perai Selatan serta kawasan Bayan Baru, Bayan Lepas, Teluk Kumbar sehingga Balik Pulau di bahagian pulau, kawasan selatan Kedah dan utara Perak. - BERNAMA

2nd bridge was brain child by the same person--Tun Lim Chong Eu as well, nothing about Mahathir indeed.

johan is

March 4th, 2013, 04:48 AM

Jajaran Jambatan Pulau Pinang kedua dibincang 31 Julai

27/7/2001

KUALA LUMPUR 26 Julai - Kementerian Kerja Raya dan Kerajaan Negeri Pulau Pinang akan mengadakan perjumpaan pada 31 Julai ini bagi menentukan jajaran yang akan diguna untuk membina Jambatan Pulau Pinang yang kedua.

Menteri Kerja Raya, Datuk Seri S. Samy Vellu berkata, kedua-dua pihak akan memilih salah satu antara tiga jajaran yang telah dikenal pasti dalam perjumpaan antaranya dan Ketua Menteri Pulau Pinang, Tan Sri Koh Tsu Koon pada Selasa depan.

``Kita akan lihat jajaran mana yang lebih ekonomik, di tempat mana yang boleh mengatasi masalah kesesakan,'' katanya ketika menjawab soalan tambahan Chong Eng (DAP-Bukit Mertajam) di Dewan Rakyat hari ini.

Samy berkata, jajaran yang telah dikenal pasti ialah jajaran utara sepanjang 9.2 kilometer dari Bagan Jermal ke Bagan Ajam dengan anggaran pembinaan RM2.3 bilion, jajaran tengah sepanjang 7.8 kilometer dari lebuh raya Jelutong ke Butterworth berharga RM2.5 bilion.

Artikel Penuh: http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/info.asp?y=2001&dt=0727&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Parlimen&pg=pa_04.htm#ixzz2MXVLQwt2
© Utusan Melayu (M) Bhd

johan is

March 4th, 2013, 04:52 AM

2nd bridge was brain child by the same person--Tun Lim Chong Eu as well, nothing about Mahathir indeed.

I'm not Mahathir's fanatic fan but when a mega project plan to be build, must be approved by PM 1st, but state gov rejected it

Projek dengan anggaran kos RM2 bilion di laluan Jajaran Utara itu bagaimanapun tidak dipersetujui oleh kerajaan negeri yang mahukan jambatan kedua itu menghubungi tanah bahagian selatan di tanah besar setelah jambatan yang sedia ada menghubungi kawasan tengah di tanah besar itu.

zhaochuan

March 4th, 2013, 04:58 AM

I'm not Mahathir's fanatic fan but when a mega project plan to be build, must be approved by PM 1st, but state gov rejected it

fyi, Mahathir just wanna Penang die off during his time, everyone know that.

and it is fact that Mahathir not the one who brain child and approved for 1st bridge, but PLUS website just change the history recently to suite and show "contribution" done by Mahathir, meanwhile they totally wiped off contribution from Tun Lim Chong Eu

thats the fact.

2nd bridge definitely also brain child brain child from Tun Lim Chong Eu too:cheers:

daeng_jal

March 4th, 2013, 09:33 AM

fyi, Mahathir just wanna Penang die off during his time, everyone know that.

and it is fact that Mahathir not the one who brain child and approved for 1st bridge, but PLUS website just change the history recently to suite and show "contribution" done by Mahathir, meanwhile they totally wiped off contribution from Tun Lim Chong Eu

thats the fact.

2nd bridge definitely also brain child brain child from Tun Lim Chong Eu too:cheers:

Sure it's sexy to think that despite blah.blah we still blah.blah. Sorry nope. The fact is as powerful as Dr. M is. If he wish for Penang to die. It would die. No Penang has got it worst! He don't care, he don't care of u live or die one.

If he doesn't want the bridge to be built it won't be. How does a GLC want to build a high risk project then use the low interest gomen loan, then repay the loan with subsidies to lower toll rate. And all of this is done without the blessings nor support from the prime minister?

I say it's another maria ozawa wet dream.

zhaochuan

March 4th, 2013, 11:05 AM

Sure it's sexy to think that despite blah.blah we still blah.blah. Sorry nope. The fact is as powerful as Dr. M is. If he wish for Penang to die. It would die. No Penang has got it worst! He don't care, he don't care of u live or die one.

If he doesn't want the bridge to be built it won't be. How does a GLC want to build a high risk project then use the low interest gomen loan, then repay the loan with subsidies to lower toll rate. And all of this is done without the blessings nor support from the prime minister?

I say it's another maria ozawa wet dream.

just go and check if Mahathir endorsed anything or even the brain child about the 1st bridge is from mahathir.

if you do not know about penang, then better dont make your comment. Just go findout how Mahathir using MCA to weaken Gerakan (during Tun Lim Chong Eu time) and then puppet Koh Tsu Koon later on. All the penang port importannt role shifted to other region; industries wise, he established Kulim hi tech to divert the investor to Kulim; port free? not to mention, already gone during Gerakan won as opposition previously....

during he in power, he even trying to shut down the penang international airport and build it on a man made island off the kedah shore..do you know about that history?

and lots more thing Mahathir attempted just to marginalise Penang, howver still Penang survive because Penangites hard working and love our own hometown, and yes we are proud of ourself that we survived though these years!^^

another reason why Mahathir said Penang is "negeri darul sampah" during Tsu Koon time--to defame Penang...fortunately, Penangites at last stand up and proudly kicked out the evil BN. since then, the development of Penang booming again and of course, Penang become one of the cleanest states in Malaysia now.^^

tomkat

March 4th, 2013, 12:05 PM

Has English standard in Malaysia gone down this low? I am waiting for someone to blame Dr Mahathir for that too.

zhaochuan

March 4th, 2013, 02:33 PM

Has English standard in Malaysia gone down this low? I am waiting for someone to blame Dr Mahathir for that too.

My English is very bad, no doubt.

But is better to use excellent English to twist facts or bullshiting

tomkat

March 4th, 2013, 03:24 PM

Sorry I don't get you mate.

Are you asking a question or making a statement?

zhaochuan

March 4th, 2013, 04:24 PM

Sorry I don't get you mate.

Are you asking a question or making a statement?

i am not talking about you, is pointing on other person.

sorry that you cant understand my poor english.

EricOng

March 4th, 2013, 07:29 PM

Has English standard in Malaysia gone down this low? I am waiting for someone to blame Dr Mahathir for that too.

To put one's proficiency in English down for an argument is just plain derogatory, and immature just because you couldn't reply intellectually enough.

Sorry, 2nd highest, you can't beat KL! And surprise surprise, Sarawak comes in a close 3rd. We only have 2010 statistics btw.
http://www.statistics.gov.my/portal/images/stories/files/LatestReleases/gdp%20negeri/gdpnegeri_2010/Table5.pdf

And what he said is true, 8.3%, but to me, a very important 8.3%
http://www.statistics.gov.my/portal/images/stories/files/LatestReleases/gdp%20negeri/gdpnegeri_2010/Table4.pdf

I love Penang and have an extended family there but hey, just correcting your facts. No hard feelings. :)

I stand corrected, thanks but noticed I said Penang is a state, whereas KL isn't, it's a federal territory. Technicalities here and there. No hard feelings of course.

Ironic isn't it? Coming from a guy/girl who claims that Penang's GDP is a mere 8 percent of the GDP, but Terengganu's GRP is what? 2.6 percent?

ILM

March 4th, 2013, 08:06 PM

Has English standard in Malaysia gone down this low? I am waiting for someone to blame Dr Mahathir for that too.
fyi, Mahathir just wanna Penang die off during his time, everyone know that.
These comments I love, well, I don't like Dr M too, but I just wanna throw in some hard proof that he did want Penang to die off.
Penang Bridge- Well I read somewhere that planning was done during Hussein Onn's time, by the time Mahathir took over it was too late to call it off.
Langkawi- While Penang's free-port status was revoked in 1969 by Tunku, Mahathir developed the backwater Langkawi and gave it free-port status instead! Well, at least tourists in Penang won't be puking on the streets cause they drank too much beer like in Langkawi.

I stand corrected, thanks but noticed I said Penang is a state, whereas KL isn't, it's a federal territory. Technicalities here and there. No hard feelings of course.

Ironic isn't it? Coming from a guy/girl who claims that Penang's GDP is a mere 8 percent of the GDP, but Terengganu's GRP is what? 2.6 percent?
Well, categorisation of state and FT is not much difference, for FTs, they function like states but they just don't have a state government- they're directly administered only by the Federal Govt. So naturally the Feds like to focus on KL more, plus it's not only our largest city, but the primate city of Malaysia.

Penang do not need too much shopping malls like what KL have, Penang have its own unique identity

I think it deserves a few more, but cleanliness is still far behind international standards (of course much better than KL lar). I hope next time Penang will look more scenic resort island like Honolulu in Hawaii or the Greek islands. While there are a lot of improvements, there are still a number of places that look more like cheap cheap and dirty Phuket. Start from the Hawker shops Komtar also deserves a lot more. And we need an MRT in Penang!:cheers:

9MMRD

March 5th, 2013, 02:31 AM

Kenyataan Akhbar Bersama Setiausaha Kerajaan Negeri Pulau Pinang Dato Farizan bin Darus dan Pegawai Kewangan Negeri Pulau Pinang Dato Haji Mokhtar bin Mohd Jait di Komtar, George Town Pada 4.3.2012.

Tidak Benar Sama Sekali Bahawa Projek RM6.3 Bilion Akan Dijalankan Oleh Syarikat RM 2 Bila Sebenarnya Modal Berbayar Keseluruhan Adalah Sebanyak RM 4,549.2 Juta.
Sebagai Pengerusi Lembaga Perolehan Negeri Pulau Pinang serta Pengerusi Jawatankuasa Teknikal dan Kewangan masing-masing, kami rasa kesal bahawa proses pemilihan tender yang dijalankan secara terbuka dan telus untuk 3 lebuhraya utama daripada Tanjung Bungah ke Teluk Bahang, Bandar Baru Air Itam ke Lebuhraya Tun Dr Lim Chong Eu(LCE) Persiaran Gurney ke Lebuhraya LCE dan sebuah terowong bawah dasar laut daripada Persiaran Gurney dan Bagan Ajam telahpun dipersoalkan oleh pihak tertentu.

Kos projek ini dianggarkan oleh kerajaan sebanyak RM 8 bilion. Akan tetapi selepas proses tender terbuka secara kompetitif dijalankan sejak 14.11.2011, surat niat telah dikeluarkan pada 6.2.2013 dengan harga lebih rendah iaitu sebanyak RM 6.3 bilion, yang terendah di antara semua pembida yang diterima. Projek ini agak tersendiri dan unik kerana kos RM 6.3 bilion dibiayai bukan dengan bayaran wang tunai tetapi menerusi “land swap” sebanyak 110 ekar di tanah tebus guna di Tanjung Pinang.

Memandangkan bayaran dibuat menerusi “land swap” dan bukan secara bayaran wang tunai, maka adalah perlu kontraktor berpakaran bekerjasama dengan pemaju. Konsortium Zenith BUCG Sdn Bhd adalah sebuah special purpose vehicle(SPV) yang merupakan konsortium usahasama di antara syarikat kontraktor berpakaran dengan pemaju seperti berikut:-
• Zenith Construction Sdn Bhd bersama China Railway Construction Corporation Ltd sebanyak 70% ekuiti dengan modal berbayar sebanyak RM 3.5 juta dan RM 4 bilion masing-masing;
• Beijing Urban Construction Group 10% ekuiti dengan modal berbayar sebanyak RM 541 juta;
• Sri Tinggi Sdn Bhd 10% ekuiti dengan modal berbayar sebanyak RM 3.7 juta; dan
• Juteras Sdn Bhd 10% ekuiti dengan modal berbayar sebanyak RM 1 juta.

Keseluruhan modal berbayar keempat-empat syarikat adalah RM 4,549.2 juta yang memenuhi criteria kerajaan negeri yang meletakkan modal berbayar minima RM 381 juta. Konsortium Zenith BUCG Sdn Bhd mempunyai modal berbayar RM 2 kerana ditubuhkan khas untuk ini(SPV). Sekiranya tidak berjaya dalam tender maka syarikat ini akan dibubarkan. Sekiranya berjaya maka setiap rakan kongsi atau pemilik saham mestilah menandatangani surat penerimaan secara langsung dengan kerajaan negeri.

Bila surat niat atau “letter of intent” dikeluarkan kepada Konsortium Zenith BUCG Sdn Bhd pada 6.2.2013, semua pemilik saham secara berasingan juga menandatangani surat penerimaan. Dengan kata lain bukan hanya sepucuk surat penerimaan tetapi adalah lagi 4(5 kesemuanya) surat penerimaan untuk memastikan ia dijalankan oleh syarikat induk masing-masing dan bukannya hanya dengan Konsortium Zenith BUCG Sdn Bhd.

Oleh itu adalah tidak benar sama sekali bahawa projek RM6.3 bilion akan dijalankan oleh syarikat RM 2 bila sebenarnya modal berbayar keseluruhan untuk keempat-empat syarikat yang jalankan projek ini adalah sebanyak RM 4,549.2 juta.

Apabila kontrak formal dimuktamadkan selepas perbincangan butiran lanjut pada beberapa bulanlagi, semua syarikat rakan kongsi diperlukan untuk menandatangani surat perjanjian untuk memastikan projek ini dijalankan oleh syarikat induk yang berprestij. Perlu ditegaskan bahawa China Railway Construction Corporation Ltd dan Beijing Urban Construction Group adalah syarikat pembinaan gergasi di Negara China yang telah menjalankan projek besar keretapi, terowong dan juga Stadium Olimpik “Bird Nest” di Beijing.

Sebagai rumusan, proses penilaian teknikal dan pemilihan tender dijalankan secara profesyenal oleh jawatankuasa yang dipengerusikan oleh Pegawai Kewangan Negeri dan Setiausaha Kerajaan Negeri masing-masing dan tidak melibatkan YAB Ketua Menteri. EXCO negeri hanya merestui syor kami bahwa tender dikeluarkan kepada Konsortium Zenith BUCG Sdn Bhd yang dibuat semasa ia dibentangkan kepada mesyuarat EXCO pada 30.1.2013.

Dato Farizan Darus
Pengerusi Lembaga Perolehan Negeri Pulau Pinang

Dato Mokhtar bin Mohd Jait
Pengerusi Jawatankuasa Teknikal dan Kewangan

zhaochuan

March 5th, 2013, 02:31 AM

These comments I love, well, I don't like Dr M too, but I just wanna throw in some hard proof that he did want Penang to die off.
Penang Bridge- Well I read somewhere that planning was done during Hussein Onn's time, by the time Mahathir took over it was too late to call it off.
Langkawi- While Penang's free-port status was revoked in 1969 by Tunku, Mahathir developed the backwater Langkawi and gave it free-port status instead! Well, at least tourists in Penang won't be puking on the streets cause they drank too much beer like in Langkawi.

Well, categorisation of state and FT is not much difference, for FTs, they function like states but they just don't have a state government- they're directly administered only by the Federal Govt. So naturally the Feds like to focus on KL more, plus it's not only our largest city, but the primate city of Malaysia.

I think it deserves a few more, but cleanliness is still far behind international standards (of course much better than KL lar). I hope next time Penang will look more scenic resort island like Honolulu in Hawaii or the Greek islands. While there are a lot of improvements, there are still a number of places that look more like cheap cheap and dirty Phuket. Start from the Hawker shops Komtar also deserves a lot more. And we need an MRT in Penang!:cheers:

The penang bridge is a brain child of Tun Lim Chong Eu, and 2nd bridge already in the discussion when 1st bridge built.

and is correct, there are nothing contributed by Mahathir at all. What makes people think that Mahathir have contribution over the bridge is because during the opening ceremony, he drove the proton saga through the bridge, and since then everyone thought is his effort to bring the bridge to penang, but hell, he wish penang die so much.

and do you know that he was once wanted to shut down tne Penang International Airport (was called Bayan Lepas International Airport) and shift to a manmade island at Kedah shore? Thank god this happened just before the 1997 world economy crisis, and after the crisis, the project was permanently discarded by Abdullah.

the 9 manmade island project that Mahathir was wish to build along the kedah shore (equivalent of singapore land size!) was the most expensive project during that time (more expensive than Bakun project). the reclaiming land alone already projected to take 10 years....you can imagine how much this greedy bastard wish to earn "percentage" from this gigantic project again...this evil man never stop thinking about corruptions:bash:

about cleaniness in penang, although it have much improved compared to last time, it still have rooms of improvement as you said. of course, at least it is much cleaner than KL and other cities in malaysia now. however, i still dont think penang need to have more shoppping mall but should concerntrate to upgrade some tourism products and emphasize on culture preservation.

and about MRT, as you know, penangites was cheated by BN last time about monorail, the only way is to let PR take over federal as SPAD is the devil behind this.

daeng_jal

March 5th, 2013, 05:48 AM

If someone can build road and tunnel why the heck did u need to take over SPAD for?

Tulsa

March 5th, 2013, 05:50 AM

another reason why Mahathir said Penang is "negeri darul sampah" during Tsu Koon time--to defame Penang...fortunately, Penangites at last stand up and proudly kicked out the evil BN. since then, the development of Penang booming again and of course, Penang become one of the cleanest states in Malaysia now.^^

But the truth is Penang economic growth has been lagging most other states since PR tookover
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8229/8530340418_844617bdf8.jpg

zhaochuan

March 5th, 2013, 06:01 AM

If someone can build road and tunnel why the heck did u need to take over SPAD for?

to make sure public transport system not holding by SPAD^^

federal is holding the public transportation development in penang, even since BN government time, thats another reason penangites rejected BN^^

zhaochuan

March 5th, 2013, 06:03 AM

But the truth is Penang economic growth has been lagging most other states since PR tookover
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8229/8530340418_844617bdf8.jpg

up and down, but overall obvious aggressive improvement in penang^^

we penangites enjoying the momentum now^^

i can ensure you that penangites know what happened during the 18 years + under BN (Tsu Koon time) the penang development is stagnant and no much development during those years^^

zhaochuan

March 5th, 2013, 06:08 AM

I'm not Mahathir's fanatic fan but when a mega project plan to be build, must be approved by PM 1st, but state gov rejected it

overlooked a point from you...

state didnt rejected the monorail promissed by BN, but BN discarded it after lost the last general election. i.e BN lie to penangites^^

mrkem

March 5th, 2013, 06:35 AM

P.Pinang bina terowong laluan bawah laut
BUTTERWORTH: Kerajaan negeri Pulau Pinang mengumumkan pembinaan terowong dasar laut bernilai RM6.3 bilion bagi menghubungkan Gurner Drive di pulau dengan Bagan Ajam sebelah tanah besar.

Ia bakal menjadi kenyataan tidak lama lagi kata Ketua Menteri Pulau Pinang, Lim Guan Eng.

Pembinaan itu akan menghubungkan Seberang Perai Utara dengan pulau bagi memajukan kawasan itu selaras dengan kepesatan pembangunan sejak kebelakangan ini.

"Walaupun Seberang Perai Utara dikuasai pembangkang Umno dan BN namun Kerajaan Pakatan Rakyat tetap meningkatkan kemajuan di situ demi rakyat bukan kerana dendam politik.

"Kita mencadangkan laluan ketiga di situ di mana Terowong Dasar Laut menghubungkan Gurney Drive dan Bagan Ajam yang menelan belanja RM6.3 bilion hasil pelaksanaan tander terbuka berbanding kos asal RM8 bilion diera pemerintahan BN," tegasnya.

Beliau berkata demikian ketika berucap pada majlis pelancaran Agenda Ekonomi Saksama (AES) yang diadakan di Dewan Haji Ahmad Badawi, Butterworth pagi tadi.

Beliau percaya pembinaan itu nanti akan memberikan lonjakan ekonomi pada penduduk Seberang Perai Utara di samping memberikan peluang pekerjaan yang cerah kepada anak-anak muda.

Menurut Lim, walaupun sedar cadanganya menimbulkan kemarahan sesetengah pihak ekoran tidak menerima cadangan mereka yang mahukan kerajaan negeri mengenakan bayaran kepada kenderaan yang ingin memasuki Georgetown.

Mereka mendakwa cara tersebut, akan mengurangkan kesesakan serta berpeluang menambah pendapatan negeri.

"Kita tidak akan gunakan pendekatan mereka kerana ia akan menimbulkan kemarahan rakyat. Lebih baik kita buat terowong kerana ia dapat memberikan beberapa keistimewaan sebagai tarikan pelancung, " ujarnya.

Kontraktor berpengalaman telah dilantik untuk melaksanakan projek tersebut, jelas beliau yang juga Ahli Dewan Undangan (Adun) Air Putih, Balik Pulau.

http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr127/kamarul04/penangdev_zps47731acf.jpg

sepul

March 5th, 2013, 02:07 PM

But the truth is Penang economic growth has been lagging most other states since PR tookover
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8229/8530340418_844617bdf8.jpg

wow look at Kelantan. If any of you haven't been to Kelantan, please make a visit and witness yourself bustling Kota Bharu. Our gov-controlled media will never highlight the economic prosperity of the city. More amazing that it reaches such feat with minimal aids from fed gov. Too bad the roads in Kelantan are in sad condition due to potholes everywhere.

tigana67

March 5th, 2013, 03:25 PM

zhaochuan

March 5th, 2013, 04:00 PM

I think the tunnel can be planned with a better idea.
I would like to see it support a circular rail line/MRT linking mainland and island.
The line would be from
1) Butterworth to Georgetown via the tunnel
2) From Georgetown along the coast to the Penang Bridge.
3) Cross the Penang Bridge to the mainland and then
4) along the Prai coast to Butterworth.

for 3), if cannot use the Penang Bridge, maybe just build another bridge along side / or under it.

every penangites would love to have MRT / rail transport integrated, i believe.

Unfortunately, in order to have that, we need to change the federal government (as approval needed from SPAD) 1st. Apparently, federal government under BN already cheated Penangites on the monorail project once and they will do it again.

johan is

March 5th, 2013, 04:20 PM

overlooked a point from you...

state didnt rejected the monorail promissed by BN, but BN discarded it after lost the last general election. i.e BN lie to penangites^^

what the hell is going on?? In this thread we discuss the underwater tunnel project but u mix it up with monorail n for the millions time BN, BN, BN..please get rid all of politics talking in this thread.. If u wanna blame BN for this and that please go to Mamak thread n :bash::bash: them

zhaochuan

March 5th, 2013, 04:25 PM

what the hell is going on?? In this thread we discuss the underwater tunnel project but u mix it up with monorail n for the millions time BN, BN, BN..please get rid all of politics talking in this thread.. If u wanna blame BN for this and that please go to Mamak thread n :bash::bash: them

very well, back to the topic.

but at least you should know state government didnt rejected monorail as you mentioned, this is the fact that you need to learnt by now.

johan is

March 5th, 2013, 04:31 PM

very well, back to the topic.

but at least you should know state government didnt rejected monorail as you mentioned, this is the fact that you need to learnt by now.

ok back to the topic but i never mentioned about monorail
I mentioned about the plan to build 2nd bridge from Bagan Jermal (Penang Island) to Bagan Ajam (Butterworth) that rejected by previous gov

now Penang State Gov come out with the idea of the underwater tunnel, from the same place, Gurney to Bagan Ajam

zhaochuan

March 5th, 2013, 04:40 PM

ok back to the topic but i never mentioned about monorail
I mentioned about the plan to build 2nd bridge from Bagan Jermal (Penang Island) to Bagan Ajam (Butterworth) that rejected by previous gov

now Penang State Gov come out with the idea of the underwater tunnel, from the same place, Gurney to Bagan Ajam

thanks for clarification.

appologies to drag too long into politics.

now back to main topic.

daeng_jal

March 5th, 2013, 06:16 PM

wow look at Kelantan. If any of you haven't been to Kelantan, please make a visit and witness yourself bustling Kota Bharu. Our gov-controlled media will never highlight the economic prosperity of the city. More amazing that it reaches such feat with minimal aids from fed gov. Too bad the roads in Kelantan are in sad condition due to potholes everywhere.

What no economic aids

They got more peruntukan than even Iskandar/melaka/Penang despite the itchy mini tax contributions. Heck they even have a uni hospital

To much reading pembangkang control media perhaps

sepul

March 5th, 2013, 11:35 PM

^^ my statement was nothing political. any average person would think that way. It is true that opposition controlled states especially Kelantan has always been marginalized.

.

daeng_jal

March 6th, 2013, 12:46 AM

johan is

March 6th, 2013, 02:24 AM

please back to the topic

EricOng

March 6th, 2013, 02:08 PM

Vince

March 6th, 2013, 10:02 PM

But not according to the level of funding they got.

Even melaka don't have 1km long flyover nor really nice airport terminal nor even a university Hospital nor a duty free zone nor any incentives for private sector investing there.

They got all this even with their puny tax contributions.

Personally I can't find any nor that anyone has ever given concrete prove on how they are being marginalized.

All I hear is "I'm not in their shoes", "u don't know " overall it seems they " feels" marginalized but actually not being marginalize

Probably kena brainwashed kot. If anyone being marginalized here is the penangnite, malacan and jb(Ian?) whose had not taste the full extent not even 1/4 of their tax contributions.

April 23, 2010

Federal-State Relations in Malaysia
First published in the Penang Economic Monthly.

Revisiting the Federalist System:

Federal-State Relations in Malaysia

Tricia Yeoh

Although Malaysia is officially a federalism, over the years the central government has responded to the opposition by tightening their terms of power sharing across tiers. This has even more interesting dimensions when one considers the political developments that have taken place in light of the March 2008 election results, where the “opposition” became the state governments of five states in the country. Now officially governing in Penang, Selangor, Kedah and Kelantan (the status of government in Perak is debateable), what effects has this predominantly centralised government had on the way Pakatan states operate? How have Pakatan states especially in Penang and Selangor responded to this situation? What are the alternatives available to these state governments, given current limitations?

There are several reasons for this highly centralised government, although by definition a federalism is one in which the federal and state governments have their separate and distinctive powers. In its proper form, it is a system of government that allows simultaneous recognition of diversity and common identity. In a country as diverse as Malaysia, federalism would be an ideal system of ensuring states preserve their individual and regional identities. However, despite the fact that Malaysia is a federalism, this exists perhaps only on paper especially in recent years.

One of the factors contributing to this present situation is that of constitutional design. Hence, although the Federal Constitution itself recognises the sovereignty of each state, this spirit is not adequately imbued within the document. Although the original drafters may have intended for a true federalist Malaya, the Constitution remained silent on the actual administrative provisions of distribution, and worse, did not adapt to its later changing political structures.

The ninth schedule of the Federal Constitution lays out the distribution of legislative powers and responsibilities between the federal and state governments. The federal government’s purview includes trade, commerce and industry, foreign affairs, defence, internal security, law and order, physical development (communication and transport), and human development (education, health and medicine). The state governments are left with lands and mines, Muslim affairs and customs, Native laws and customs, agriculture and forestry, local government and public services, burial grounds, markets and fairs, and licensing cinemas and theatres. The concurrent list covers social welfare, scholarships, town and country planning, drainage and irrigation, housing, culture and sports, public health and water services[1].

Because the constitution gives the central government authority over most of the crucial items, the state government is left with little else. The State Exco’s portfolios of healthcare, education, and infrastructure are in reality ineffective due to the authority structure of the central government.

The Penang state budget for example is RM477 million, which is half the budget of the Penang-based Universiti Sains Malaysia (USM). The Selangor state budget of course is much larger, given its greater urban population and size, of RM1.3 billion, but even so experiences financial pressure from the federal government that holds the purse-strings. Taxation has been monopolised by the federal government, which leaves state governments only a small range of indirect taxes and export duties. In the past, the federal government was able to hold the Kelantan state government (also under opposition) at ransom by keeping them functioning but barely so, resulting in little development relative to other Barisan-led states. The federal government recently announced it would pay Kelantan “some form of oil royalty”, but it is likely to be much less than RM1 billion, which it claims constitutes 5% of its offshore earnings. This sort of patronising benevolence from the top perpetuates a culture of beggary of states towards the federal government.

One of the ways to weaken opposition states has been to reduce budgetary grants and hampering policy implementation. Between 1985 and 1999 the central government’s revenue increased from four times the consolidated state-level government revenues to seven times[2]. The combined state expenditure budgets add to only 9% as a proportion of the overall Federal government expenditure[3]. The centralisation process was further exacerbated by the abolishment of local council elections, and use of the Internal Security Act (which allows for detention without trial), the OSA and the Printing Presses and Publications Act that restricts civil liberties.

As Pakatan took over in Penang and Selangor, several changes were made to restrict financial flows. Where previously development funds were injected directly to state-governed local district offices through the Federal Government State Development Office (SDO), after March 2008 funds would still be channeled to the SDO but no longer under states’ juridiction. Falling under the purview of the Prime Minister’s Office under its Implementation and Co-ordination Unit (ICU), the SDO was also physically removed out of both Penang and Selangor state government buildings to operate without the states’ knowledge.

Under the Federal Constitution, the federal government is only obliged to provide two major grants to the state governments, which are the ‘capitation grant’ and the ‘state road grant’[4]. The Democratic Action Party (DAP) has proposed that federal government provides 20% of tax revenues from a particular state be returned as that state’s entitlement. In Penang, 20% of the RM2.5 billion in income taxes would give them RM500 million (larger than its current budget), and in Selangor 20% of its RM16 billion would give them RM3.2 billion (more than double its current budget)[5].

Another important factor is that of the civil service. The majority of the civil servants at the state and local governments in Penang and Selangor is appointed by the federal government. Most of these officers would have worked under the previous Barisan government and would find it unnerving to serve a new government. This is especially the case for high-level officers of the Administrative and Diplomatic Service (Pegawai Tadbir dan Diplomatik), who are appointed to top positions of the state bureaucracy. For example, conflicting allegiances arise as they are technically employees of the federal government, which conducts evaluations and promotions. This is not to say that they automatically neglect their responsibilities to the states to which they are seconded, but there is a real perceived risk of not adhering to instructions from Putrajaya.

In addition, there are directives from the federal government that make it difficult for state governments to operate. The Minister of Agriculture Noh Omar has forbidden all its officers (including those stationed at the state office) from attending any meetings or courses sponsored by the Pakatan state governments. The decision to allocate RM50 million to Penang for conservation purposes was reversed, with Minister Datuk Seri Dr Rais Yatim saying that the money promised was a misconception. Pakatan is therefore obliged to be careful in the ways they administer the states, carefully sidestepping the sensitive areas they are discouraged to venture into.

Both Penang and Selangor have attempted to resolve these financial fixes in their own ways. For instance, Penang’s applauded introduction of open tenders is a way of reducing wastage of funds by ensuring only the best and most efficient companies are awarded, by so doing guaranteeing existing funds are maximised. In Selangor, the economic stimulus package announced by the Menteri Besar seeks unique financing models that involve private sector funding without relying on federal development funds. He also proposed that additional funds be channelled to the state Zakat board, forming a new Baitulmal fund for development and administrative purposes (this is a proposal and has not been implemented).

The changing political landscape of Malaysia continues to stimulate important legal and administrative debate, particularly in the case of the Pakatan-led state governments. Although Pakatan states will be forced to think creatively of alternative sources of funding at the present moment, in the long run policy reform must include a fair and equitable recognition of states’ rights, powers and adequate financing apportioned likewise. As we approach a maturing democracy of a two-party system in a federalist context, more ideal is a Grants Commission as practiced in countries like Australia. The manner of financial distribution would not be based on political affiliation but on developmental need. The “winner takes all” mentality so prevalently practiced by the federal government today would be avoided through better regulation. Other successful federalist countries have practiced decentralisation by giving development grants to states based on an equalisation formula that factors in population, poverty, area development, cost, human development and gross revenue per capita indices[6]. Granting greater autonomy to state governments, it is argued, leads to better participatory democracy and public involvement.

Other countries in the region are progressing with Indonesia and China as good examples of how fiscal decentralisation works by shifting powers from the central to local governments. Balancing funds in order to achieve better vertical balances between states and regions would allow Malaysia to develop holistically in the long run. Although income disparity between states will inevitably exist, allocation will ensure that “national development” is adhered to all round. In the final analysis, if principles of a democratic government are upheld, such as public accountability, better quality of living, public participation, and access to information, are better defended in a less centralised government, then this is the system that Pakatan should opt for if and when it takes federal government.

-end-

Tricia Yeoh is Research Officer to the Selangor Menteri Besar at the Selangor State Government.

dinoleon

March 7th, 2013, 11:19 AM

What the fx@# is one argues for I want LRT, another I want tunnel.
Can I say I want both?
I want the tunnel to be built, to have a lane reserve for rail-based transport, eg: LRT or train. Then, BN gives LRT in island and connect from island to Butterworth Double Track station via tunnel which PR gives. So the fx@#ing tranfic can be dispersed. And, I can back and forth to KL/Penang without driving.

Then, the fx@#ing missing 80 new buses + existing buses can use newly built island 3 tunnels between small towns to carry passenger faster.

I want both !

daeng_jal

March 7th, 2013, 02:52 PM

TWK90

March 7th, 2013, 04:43 PM

dengilo

March 8th, 2013, 04:37 AM

Would be better if the road tunnel has one special lane (each direction) for tram. Easier to expand tram network to Seberang Perai.

After all, it would be expected that tram could easier to be installed when the existing traffic concentration be diverted by these new roads.

I was thinking that would that be a better idea ,a tunnel just for trains@transit system.The idea is just to discourage cars coming into the island when possible May be a little cheaper to build too:)

tigana67

March 8th, 2013, 06:55 PM

Yes it does not have to be a LRT. It could be a bus line with a dedicated lane, strictly for buses (just like that city in Brazil).

fasszz

March 9th, 2013, 12:16 AM

to be honest..this is the most UNFEASIBLE PROJECT....8 BILLION should be used to built public transportation...komuter/mrt/etc....LOL

we should encourage people not to drive....:nuts::nuts::nuts:

ScuderiaVincero

March 9th, 2013, 12:22 AM

to be honest..this is the most UNFEASIBLE PROJECT....8 BILLION should be used to built public transportation...komuter/mrt/etc....LOL

we should encourage people not to drive....:nuts::nuts::nuts:

I am in half agreement with you :nuts:

Yes, money should be spent firstly to improve the public transport network in Penang (maybe a metro). But that underwater tunnel is more than feasible as a future link between the Penang and the mainland. I say it's best if the tunnel serves both public transport and road traffic. Any effort to relieve pressure on the bridges is more than welcome!

And :cheers:

lohxy

March 9th, 2013, 02:23 PM

April 23, 2010

Federal-State Relations in Malaysia
First published in the Penang Economic Monthly.

So anything in this article that can relate to the tunnel rather for some 'federal-state' relations?

EricOng

March 9th, 2013, 06:27 PM

to be honest..this is the most UNFEASIBLE PROJECT....8 BILLION should be used to built public transportation...komuter/mrt/etc....LOL

we should encourage people not to drive....:nuts::nuts::nuts:

Before you start jumping on the bandwagon and start to look like an idiot, please bear in mind that the state government has NO, let me repeat NO authority over public transport - that is by the federal government to approve anything related to it. One of the example is when the state government proposed to use their own, right THEIR OWN money to fund Rapid Penang buses to have free buses during peak hours to reduce public congestion - but then it was turned down by them.

So, what do you expect them to do ah? Do nothing ah?
Since roads (and land) falls under the purview of the state government - so that is basically what they can do. And do you even live in Penang to know how narrow the roads are in Batu Ferringhi? The jams in Farlim? AND please don't be like an idiot talking about road widening - you can't widen roads that are on the coastal line (ie. on your right is the sea, on your left is a hill).

I am in half agreement with you :nuts:

Yes, money should be spent firstly to improve the public transport network in Penang (maybe a metro). But that underwater tunnel is more than feasible as a future link between the Penang and the mainland. I say it's best if the tunnel serves both public transport and road traffic. Any effort to relieve pressure on the bridges is more than welcome!

And :cheers:

Yes, I agree in order for Penang to move forward we need to have the best of both - world class public transport and excellent roads - so that it would also spur economic growth. One of the main drivers of why Penang remains a popular FDI destination is because of its infrastructure (although is lacking behind now), but I believe this project would further boost up investments and the economy in years to come.

fasszz

March 9th, 2013, 11:12 PM

ScuderiaVincero

March 10th, 2013, 05:43 AM

EricOng

March 10th, 2013, 12:13 PM

oh yeah...sorry..i forgot that SPAD is the one who is in charge of public transport....but well....again....rather than build an underwater channel....it would be better to finance public housing....

8 BILLION IS A LOT OKAY....

don't tell me that penang is jammed...i knew it coz both my sister and brother live in penang and work there...i always go there...but again...to spend 8 billion for a tunnel alone is a waste...

at least, build a third bridge that will cost 2 billion while the other 6 billion to build housing estate....

Don't you understand?
The state does NOT fund these RM 8 billion projects, but rather it is done by private-public partnership through exchange of 110 acres through land reclamation. Moreover, the land was sold by the ex government for RM1 psf, so the state asked for MORE from the deals instead by increasing 10% of state land to 20%.

Secondly, to build a bridge is ALSO under the purview of the federal government, only tunnels are not (apparently there is a loophole in the contract). Besides, tunnels would also not affect the dredging of the Penang Port.

fasszz

March 10th, 2013, 12:59 PM

i see...cheers...

EricOng

March 10th, 2013, 01:25 PM

I'm just wondering EricOng, with that in mind (SPAD having the last word on public transport infrastructure), is the State Government in any position to initiate an independent feasibility study? To decide the ideal route and station locations?

Yes, the state is now undertaking a Penang Transport Masterplan, but it's not yet ready. However, to have a complete overhaul of the transport system in Penang is not gonna be cheap - and of course needs the funding from the federal government.

i see...cheers...

Yeah, not many people seems to understand these facts because the mainstream media is painting a very false picture depicting the state government decides to bulldoze through this mega projects without looking at the public transport improvements. I was there at the Penang Forum at the Town Hall earlier, where the CM openly engage in a public dialogue with the stakeholders, NGOs and Penangites to seek for the views and also to explain these projects in front of the media.

zhaochuan

March 10th, 2013, 05:51 PM

yes, indeed BN in Penang especially Gerakan, MCA and UMNO are trying hard to mislead people that public transportation is under state government control, they always asking the questions like "why not MRT/LRT..." via mainstream media..

dinoleon

March 11th, 2013, 09:23 AM

A burger cost 10 bucks
A mee goreng also cost 10 bucks
We only have 10 bucks in our pocket

Then how can we have both?

If you have 10 bucks only to choose either burger or mee goreng. Then, why not get another 10 bucks from another source?

Uncle Lim can promise tunnel from state fund.
Uncle Jib can promise LRT from federal fund.
It means, there are money (10 buck) from state and (another 10 buck) from federal.

Unless those uncles have no "bucks" in actual, but try to show off their "bucks".

FNNG

March 11th, 2013, 02:59 PM

:righton::crazy2:Don't you understand?
The state does NOT fund these RM 8 billion projects, but rather it is done by private-public partnership through exchange of 110 acres through land reclamation. Moreover, the land was sold by the ex government for RM1 psf, so the state asked for MORE from the deals instead by increasing 10% of state land to 20%.

Secondly, to build a bridge is ALSO under the purview of the federal government, only tunnels are not (apparently there is a loophole in the contract). Besides, tunnels would also not affect the dredging of the Penang Port.

i seriosuly hope that while this tunnnel project is on-going, they can also build LRT/Monorail/Tram and then make the rail track inside the tunnel as well, if not in future, if they want to link penang island and mainland together with public transport, they will need to build a fourth bridge which i think that will be quite unneccsary for penang to have so many bridge and might need to wait like 20 more years in order to have a new bridge for penang

Btw if the project funding is from private sector, means the private can charge any amount to the ppl who cross the bridge. Hope is reasonable price

ILM

March 11th, 2013, 07:34 PM

Before you start jumping on the bandwagon and start to look like an idiot, please bear in mind that the state government has NO, let me repeat NO authority over public transport - that is by the federal government to approve anything related to it. One of the example is when the state government proposed to use their own, right THEIR OWN money to fund Rapid Penang buses to have free buses during peak hours to reduce public congestion - but then it was turned down by them.
.
But I wanna ask, how about the CAT free bus service? Isn't it running now?:)

johan is

March 12th, 2013, 03:28 AM

But I wanna ask, how about the CAT free bus service? Isn't it running now?:)

still
and also have BEST service

ILM

March 12th, 2013, 03:32 PM

still
and also have BEST service

I know, I mean, EricOng has said that public transport is not under the purview of the state government, but under the federal government instead. But isn't CAT and BEST bus services under the State Govt.?

zhaochuan

March 12th, 2013, 04:26 PM

I know, I mean, EricOng has said that public transport is not under the purview of the state government, but under the federal government instead. But isn't CAT and BEST bus services under the State Govt.?

CAT and BEST are least the bus from Rapid Penang indeed. and Penang government have plan to expand them but unfortunately not approved already.

and Rapid Penang is under purview of federal government.

ILM

March 12th, 2013, 04:33 PM

He wanted to shut down tne Penang International Airport (was called Bayan Lepas International Airport) and shift to a manmade island at Kedah shore? Thank god this happened just before the 1997 world economy crisis, and after the crisis, the project was permanently discarded by Abdullah.

the 9 manmade island project that Mahathir was wish to build along the kedah shore (equivalent of singapore land size!) was the most expensive project during that time (more expensive than Bakun project). the reclaiming land alone already projected to take 10 years....you can imagine how much this greedy bastard wish to earn "percentage" from this gigantic project again...this evil man never stop thinking about corruptions:bash:
.

Man-made island? What for?! LOL!!!!:lol::lol: It'll be the biggest shit failed project ever. But eh, I thought he wanted to move the airport to Langkawi instead?

CAT and BEST are least the bus from Rapid Penang indeed. and Penang government have plan to expand them but unfortunately not approved already.

and Rapid Penang is under purview of federal government.
But who funds CAT and BEST? Penang state govt. has been promoting it like it's funding them, but Eric said state govts have no power over public transport. I'm confused

zhaochuan

March 12th, 2013, 04:49 PM

Man-made island? What for?! LOL!!!!:lol::lol: It'll be the biggest shit failed project ever. But eh, I thought he wanted to move the airport to Langkawi instead?

But who funds CAT and BEST? Penang state govt. has been promoting it like it's funding them, but Eric said state govts have no power over public transport. I'm confused

CAT and BEST are funded by state government, but the buses least from Rapid Penang are control by federal government.

About the previous case about shifting the international airport to Kedah, yes, Mahathir was proposed to shut down Penang airport (Bayan Lepas International Airport) and build it on a man made island offshore of Kedah...the total land size of 9 man made island (not mistaken are 9 islands) are equivalent of the size of Singapore.

Imagine if that happen, what will happen to the logistic cost and support to the Bayan Lepas electronic industries....obviously, Mahathir trying hard to kill the main economy income of Penang, you can see how evil Mahathir is.^^

EricOng

March 12th, 2013, 05:57 PM

daeng_jal

March 12th, 2013, 07:40 PM

Those money grabbing idiot don't want money? Really? OMG, this script just look like it come out of Disney or pinoy drama.

On the other hand, foreign investment too are under the preview of the Fed.

So unfortunately Mr.lim too don't have the power to allowed the Chinese to build him the tunnel. The area of the tunnel to are under preview of the Fed due to it being the port.

But yet he can do it. But the PT suddenly cannot? He cannot run any bus coz the Fed don't let him but yet MBPJ got busses?

And finally the reason why the PT plan has not been finished yet is when Mr lim take over, he thrown the old plan into the garbage, yet, there are plenty of plan before that too. then he make his own plan, which have finished but yet again he threw it into the garbage again in favor of a new plan made up by the Fed, which is currently in the drawings.

daeng_jal

March 12th, 2013, 07:51 PM

Would be better if the road tunnel has one special lane (each direction) for tram. Easier to expand tram network to Seberang Perai.

After all, it would be expected that tram could easier to be installed when the existing traffic concentration be diverted by these new roads.

Can always take away one lane on the current bridge when the second one complete for trams.

Should allowed far bigger people movement than just allowing the 1 lane occupied by private vehicle

Vince

March 12th, 2013, 10:10 PM

On the other hand, foreign investment too are under the preview of the Fed.

But yet he can do it. But the PT suddenly cannot? He cannot run any bus coz the Fed don't let him but yet MBPJ got busses?

Yup that's why these days the Feds are promoting Iskandar so much...trying to channel the FDIs to the south.

Regarding why MBPJ got buses: either they were already running before the last election or the Feds do not hate Khalid (Selangor MB) as much as LGE CM-Penang). Furthermore, PJ's transportation system is linked to the Federal Territory: KL, hence the Feds have no choice. :lol:

Save your breath on promoting the Feds. Everyone knows that the Feds are just slowing everyone down.Penang would have been a very developed free port by now if not for the Feds.

ScuderiaVincero

March 13th, 2013, 12:57 AM

Yup that's why these days the Feds are promoting Iskandar so much...trying to channed the FDIs to the south.

Regarding why MBPJ got buses: either they were already running before the last election or the Feds do not hate Khalid (Selangor MB) as much as LGE CM-Penang). Furthermore, PJ's transportation system is linked to the Federal Territory: KL, hence the Feds have no choice. :lol:

Save your breath on promoting the Feds. Everyone knows that the Feds are just slowing everyone down.Penang would have been a very developed free port by now if not for the Feds.

You seem more or less convinced of Iskandar's imminent failure anyway, so billions in investment should be headed to Penang anytime now.:banana:

zhaochuan

March 13th, 2013, 03:14 AM

dinoleon

March 13th, 2013, 05:25 AM

zhaochuan

March 13th, 2013, 05:57 AM

Since you are mentioning bus, it reminds me of one thing.
Isn't it Penang has few buses who had had ran on island for years? Eg; Transitlink, KGN, etc. My understanding is, these companies are having licenses for many routes on island, but couldn't proceed the business due to lack of fund. Can't LGE funding these companies which already has licenses?

since you mentioned about bus, just fyi that state government was funded a bus between penang and kedah for them to continue operate.

Also, is Transitlink and KGN still exist in Penang?

state government was once wanted to have own state bus company, but rejected by federal government (perhaps to let Rapid Penang monopoly?)

t3ars_culprit

March 13th, 2013, 07:44 AM

oh yeah...sorry..i forgot that SPAD is the one who is in charge of public transport....but well....again....rather than build an underwater channel....it would be better to finance public housing....

8 BILLION IS A LOT OKAY....

don't tell me that penang is jammed...i knew it coz both my sister and brother live in penang and work there...i always go there...but again...to spend 8 billion for a tunnel alone is a waste...

at least, build a third bridge that will cost 2 billion while the other 6 billion to build housing estate....

Butterworth to Georgetown seriously need a direct connection.. So how could you justify it is a waste by then?

Isn't building the tunnel because there's a port within that area?? If a bridge is built it would be not a good thing for the port ady..

EricOng

March 13th, 2013, 10:14 AM

Since you are mentioning bus, it reminds me of one thing.
Isn't it Penang has few buses who had had ran on island for years? Eg; Transitlink, KGN, etc. My understanding is, these companies are having licenses for many routes on island, but couldn't proceed the business due to lack of fund. Can't LGE funding these companies which already has licenses?

These buses no longer operate after Rapid Penang came in 2007, most of the buses were already bailed out by the Ministry of Finance after they suffered losses. Now, practically there is a monopoly in Rapid Penang buses in Penang with only 220 plying the road, when Najib promised to add 200 more in 2010.

zhaochuan

March 13th, 2013, 06:15 PM

fore those can read mandarin, a past newspaper that showing the tunnel was planned during BN time but not executed.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/480265_408605445898395_1284878848_n.jpg

Vince

March 13th, 2013, 10:07 PM

These buses no longer operate after Rapid Penang came in 2007, most of the buses were already bailed out by the Ministry of Finance after they suffered losses. Now, practically there is a monopoly in Rapid Penang buses in Penang with only 220 plying the road, when Najib promised to add 200 more in 2010.

And Najib is trying to promote himself as the PM who fulfills promises. What a load of BS. No wonder Penangites hate him.

fasszz

March 13th, 2013, 11:18 PM

Butterworth to Georgetown seriously need a direct connection.. So how could you justify it is a waste by then?

Isn't building the tunnel because there's a port within that area?? If a bridge is built it would be not a good thing for the port ady..

sorry I misuderstood the real situation...thanks to BN...I got it wrong...haha:nuts::nuts::nuts:

zhaochuan

March 14th, 2013, 09:06 AM

And Najib is trying to promote himself as the PM who fulfills promises. What a load of BS. No wonder Penangites hate him.

BN already cheated Penangites for many years, I was voted for BN previously, and lots of other penangites did the same, now we never regret to change a new state government as this new state government deliver much more than the BN government that holding all sort of resources and power but did nothing...

when Najib said:Janji ditepati... it really sounds irritating for us, as obviously, Najib ni terlalu muka tebal...tak tahu malu..and thats a reason why he received 3 big "NO!" during the CNY celebration with PSY..^^

now general election is very close, BN Penang introduced a series of "janji janji" again (free port, LRT, finantial hub etc etc..)...but with condition "BN take over Penang 1st"....you think Penangites will trust them again? (they not even delivered to us when we voted to them, now they come back with these janji-janji??)^^

tigana67

March 14th, 2013, 02:17 PM

zhaochuan

March 14th, 2013, 04:39 PM

Not offering BN RM10 million lah - that would be bribing. But saying that they are willing to fork out RM10 million for the project.

Bus services does fall under the purview of SPAD.

http://en.selangorku.com/?p=1101
The Selangor state govt is working with SPAD to expand from 2 free buses.

“Truthfully, the responsibility of providing public transportation lies within the authority of the Federal Government. The State Government does not have the right to plan.

yes, it is, under SPAD

JEFFREY ANG

March 14th, 2013, 05:15 PM

Finally, Penang will be like Hong Kong. Got her own undersea tunnel connecting to the mainland.

johan is

March 15th, 2013, 10:17 AM

These buses no longer operate after Rapid Penang came in 2007, most of the buses were already bailed out by the Ministry of Finance after they suffered losses. Now, practically there is a monopoly in Rapid Penang buses in Penang with only 220 plying the road, when Najib promised to add 200 more in 2010.

Rapid Penang owns 350 buses :)
but not all 350 plying on the road

patchay

March 15th, 2013, 11:56 AM

Is there any details or renderings for this project?

I personally think is a good project... and it will help to spur new developments on Butterworth.

zhaochuan

March 15th, 2013, 04:23 PM

Is there any details or renderings for this project?

I personally think is a good project... and it will help to spur new developments on Butterworth.

i think good and bad...and some worries about improper planning..

anyhow, i am not expert in this field, i hope the expert plan it properly.

dengilo

March 16th, 2013, 12:32 AM

Is there any details or renderings for this project?

I personally think is a good project... and it will help to spur new developments on Butterworth.

I agree thats what i like to see from the moment this proposal was made public:)I am curious how they come up with the cost to build it in the first place!
The best traffic management for penang is to restrict cars into the island to a manageable numbers.Thats why i rather see a tunnel dedicated to the transit system.

FNNG

March 16th, 2013, 04:01 AM

I believe the penang governor is trying his best to help penangites. But RM8 b that is one hell lots of money. Hope guan eng can fight for a tram system/LRT/ monorail in penang. Penang can seriously develop nicely if there is a real nice transport system.

Imagine take the bullet train/ new KTM to penang, den transit in butterworth to LRT/Tram to penang island, den put stuff in youth hostel, den take public transport and travel around city (gosh, its like europe developed country, i travelled alot in europe and i really hope penang can become a city like Geneva) nice and friendly town, heritage city, ppl are employed, slow path lifestyle, lots of nice food + nice scenery. It's just lack of United Nation office and also nice public transport. (U know sometimes be4 sleep and just thinking of how to develop penang/KL/johor can really make me happy, duno why haha)

and one more is to build railway system that link all the city/town of sabah and sarawak. den my dream really come true. hehe

daeng_jal

March 16th, 2013, 02:52 PM

^^^
He don't have to fight for it
It his own decision to make

Since he had mention "toll route" that simply mean it falls under LLM preview. If he did PT, it under SPAD view. Even if the tunnel is free, it's under MITI preview due to FDI from China. No matter what way, he still need federal approval. So let just hope he did the right thing.

Not offering BN RM10 million lah - that would be bribing. But saying that they are willing to fork out RM10 million for the project.

Bus services does fall under the purview of SPAD.

http://en.selangorku.com/?p=1101
The Selangor state govt is working with SPAD to expand from 2 free buses.

Hahaha. Not bribing lah. But like the selangor proposal. They will likely accept a free lunch.

A.k.a not paying from their own wallet.

As u can see, they won't mind FDI flow into PR rule state for As long As the money keep coming in:lol:

fairul

March 19th, 2013, 01:55 AM

CAP willing to lead against tunnel project
By WINNIE YEOH
winnie@thestar.com.my

http://thestar.com.my/archives/editorspick/images/photo320130319073827.jpg

GEORGE TOWN: The Consumers Association of Penang (CAP) is willing to take the lead to start a campaign against the proposed 6.5km undersea tunnel and three major road projects in the state.

CAP president S.M. Mohamed Idris said the association would do so if there was enough public support.

Slamming the state government for pushing through the RM6.3bil projects, he said they were not a long-term solution to traffic woes but would make Penang “unhealthy and unliveable”.

“Countless studies have proven that building more roads or even widening existing ones are only short-term solutions as the new roads will invariably attract more traffic.

“Soon the roads will be congested again,” Idris said, adding that this will be sooner in the case of Penang where 100,000 new vehicles hit the roads every year.

He also said the second Penang bridge is not operational yet.

“Given that its impact on traffic is yet to be seen, one wonders why the Chief Minister (Lim Guan Eng) is in such haste to push through the construction of an undersea tunnel that could be beset with risks and adverse effects,” he said at the CAP office here yesterday.

He said tunnel fires had occurred at the Mont Blanc Tunnel in Europe, Interstate 5 Tunnel in California, Taiwan Snow Mountain Tunnel and the Gotthard Tunnel in Switzer-land.

“Such an accident could turn into a national disaster if it happens in the proposed undersea tunnel,” said Idris, who showed images of tunnel fires to push across his point.

He said the state government should have some humility and consult the people first before announcing the projects.

Idris said public forums and discussions were redundant and “only served to legitimise” the projects.

The projects comprise the 6.5km Gurney Drive-Bagan Ajam undersea tunnel, a 4.6km bypass linking Air Itam to Tun Dr Lim Chong Eu Expressway, 12km Tanjung Bungah-Teluk Bahang paired road and a 4.2km road between Gurney Drive and Tun Dr Lim Chong Eu Expressway.

Idris said terms agreed for the projects were controversial as the builders will get a 30-year concession period to collect toll at the tunnel and 44ha of reclaimed land as payment.

He said the land would appreciate tremendously in value in future which he claimed would benefit the builders many times over their initial cost of construction.

who is this Idris guy? i just cannot brain what he is trying to say. :lol:

dengilo

March 19th, 2013, 03:26 AM

How much does the 44ha of the unreclaimed land actually worth?Also how much does it cost to reclaim land that big?

dcOhiney

March 20th, 2013, 03:30 PM

^^

btw, this project open tender or direct nego?

EricOng

March 22nd, 2013, 08:53 PM

How much does the 44ha of the unreclaimed land actually worth?Also how much does it cost to reclaim land that big?

It was just 110 acres of land that was previously given approval by the BN state government in 2004, who sold the land for RM1 psf, and then the current government demanded for the remaining land to be given back to the state at 10% to 25%, in which funded the highway and tunnel projects.

^^

btw, this project open tender or direct nego?

Open competitive tender.
Initial asking price was RM 8 billion, but then was reduced to RM6.3 billion (construction company who built the Bird's Nest Stadium 2008 Olympics)

gabriellim

March 23rd, 2013, 04:29 AM

I am sure most of you have seen LGE's justification for the tunnels (We don't want to be A TRAFFIC-JAM GENERATION - Guan Eng's Open Letter to Penangites (http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=69571:we-dont-want-to-be-a-traffic-jam-generation-guan-engs-open-letter-to-penangites&Itemid=2)), and civil society activist Khoo Kay Peng's rebuttal (REPLY TO GUAN ENG: Should Penangites suffer from failed systems created by EGOMANIACS! (http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=70972:a-respond-to-cm-lim-guan-eng-we-should-not-have-to-suffer-from-a-failed-political-system-created-by-egomaniacs&Itemid=2)).

Basically, LGE was saying Penang govt still prefers public transport, but pusat has been shooting down state initiatives, namely allowing city councils to run bus services (like Georgetown did in the 70s), and allowing state to fund RapidPenang RM 10 million per annum to provide efficient and frequent bus for free during morning and evening peak hours. So have to resort to tunnels and whatnot.

Whereas Khoo was saying, leaders must negotiate a best deal on behalf of the people they represent. Pusat rejecting state plans doesn't mean the people must be burdened for pusat's ill-advised decisions.

Public transport comes under federal jurisdiction. I once thought federal only legislate the related laws, states and municipalities could still fund and operate services, but I was wrong. Nothing can begin without pusat approval. So why did pusat insist to block it?

See, pusat has approved the single-tracking, double station Malacca monorail, as well as the Panorama Melaka bus restructuring (with buses loaned by Prasarana nonetheless). pusat has also approved Penang's Bas Negeri Pulau Pinang (BNPP) restructuring exercise, with corridors 1, 2 and 3 in 2006. So what's going on now?

We all know what's going on now.

When freedom and democracy finally downed in Malaysia one day, I would wish to see trams like those in the French historical city with UNESCO world heritage status, Bordeaux, here in Malaysia too. It's suitable for smaller cities, as well as bigger cities that for some reasons (cityscape, geography, historical or soil condition) cannot accomodate MRT.

http://static.flickr.com/51/168602401_efe86d6378_o.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5Ggj3gKMzsA/Ta3FlSwK93I/AAAAAAAAByY/jkUbOAV7AK8/s1600/bordeaux+tram.jpg

http://www.photo2ville.com/photos/france/bordeaux/tramway-de-bordeaux.jpg

http://images.travelpod.com/tripwow/photos/ta-02b5-66a4-a1d4/bordeaux-tram-bordeaux-france+1152_13145424142-tpfil02aw-16120.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5305/5662131903_b4b9686268.jpg

http://www.colstons.bristol.sch.uk/09-news/images/bordeaux-f1681.jpg

dengilo

March 24th, 2013, 05:56 AM

With the second bridge coming online soon.What measures are taken to somehow better managed the traffic situation?My logic is simply 2 bridge MORE traffic!Perhaps during morning and evening rush hour traffic the 2 bridges should be a one way traffic .The new inbound and the old bridge outbound.In the long term the only way control traffic is simply limiting the number of cars entering the island.Providing there is a alternative ,thats when the tunnel come into the picture.The tunnel should be for transit system exclusively.

zhaochuan

March 24th, 2013, 10:23 AM

daeng_jal

March 24th, 2013, 10:54 AM

why you think it will be one way traffic during rush hour? just curious.

Have u ever see a two way jammed during rush hour??

johan is

March 25th, 2013, 04:47 AM

dengilo

March 25th, 2013, 10:07 AM

Its just a option!I really don't know how bad is the traffic on the present bridge during peak hours!From what i hear from traffic updates on the radio its bad.Oklah perhaps during festive season then:lol:

daeng_jal

March 25th, 2013, 11:17 AM

Lim need toll to avoid UEM sue.he says

http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Malaysia/Story/A1Story20130325-411045.html

zhaochuan

March 25th, 2013, 07:34 PM

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/6026_598723176824454_60088569_n.jpg

i remember someone said the travel demand between penang and other state just 1%^^, that LIAR has not appeared for quite sometimes already...^^

dinoleon

March 26th, 2013, 10:34 AM

ridiculous

Penang bridge is enabled to provide 4lanes + 2 lanes in peak or accident/repair period. The middle divider has been allocated at few sites to let the vehicles to drive-in/out from opposite side.

The problem is, I think, it has never been practiced.

CxIxMaN

March 26th, 2013, 01:00 PM

Now I see why there people saying trams are too big for Georgetown.

http://forum.strassenbahn.tk/img/photos/cars/305/gmunden/20080928/20080928_hannes-schiestl_1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=779550

But they actually look good if placed properly
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1086/544565648_d0add18816_o.jpg

FNNG

March 26th, 2013, 01:32 PM

cannot la... penang ppl simply park their car... if a car blocked the road... then the tram ma stuck?

JEFFREY ANG

March 26th, 2013, 02:57 PM

cannot la... penang ppl simply park their car... if a car blocked the road... then the tram ma stuck?
Talking about FIRST WORLD FACILITIES/INFRASTRUCTURE and THIRD WORLD MENTALITY by Tun Abdullah (a Penangite himself). Now I know why where he get the idea from.

TWK90

March 26th, 2013, 08:29 PM

Provided if George Town road system to be converted into one way, fitting tram inside this area, would be possible.

The red tram in that photo above is Bombardier Flexity in Austria is about 2,400 mm wide.

Narrower tram of same model exists in Austria, used in Graz. It is 2,200 mm wide.

http://www.bombardier.com/files/en/supporting_docs/image_and_media/products/BT-1785-Graz.jpg

johan is

March 27th, 2013, 03:14 AM

cannot la... penang ppl simply park their car... if a car blocked the road... then the tram ma stuck?

just summon and then hit the car. Stupid driver :bash::bash:

johan is

March 27th, 2013, 03:18 AM

Penang bridge is enabled to provide 4lanes + 2 lanes in peak or accident/repair period. The middle divider has been allocated at few sites to let the vehicles to drive-in/out from opposite side.

The problem is, I think, it has never been practiced.

but personally I don't think one way traffic will be effective since the traffic congestion occurs at both direction

daeng_jal

March 27th, 2013, 07:42 AM

i remember someone said the travel demand between penang and other state just 1%^^, that LIAR has not appeared for quite sometimes already...^^

I remember someone says can't do public transport bcoz Fed power maa. Since when state can grant toll concessions :lol:

atmapg

March 27th, 2013, 03:51 PM

I remember someone says can't do public transport bcoz Fed power maa. Since when state can grant toll concessions :lol:

Tunnel NOT public transport ma! So can impose toll, just like Sg. Kelantan bridge in Kota Bharu where state(ie. PAS) govt. built the bridge and imposed toll(although now abolished).

JEFFREY ANG

March 27th, 2013, 04:13 PM

Tunnel NOT public transport ma! So can impose toll, just like Sg. Kelantan bridge in Kota Bharu where state(ie. PAS) govt. built the bridge and imposed toll(although now abolished).
At least it's abolished. Unlike our North-South Highway toll, EXTEND another 30 years for the concessionaire company. This haven't include the tolls for other highways under the federal government.

daeng_jal

March 29th, 2013, 03:08 AM

At least it's abolished. Unlike our North-South Highway toll, EXTEND another 30 years for the concessionaire company. This haven't include the tolls for other highways under the federal government.

Someone conveniently forgetting something in his back yard.

Muar bridge is now free. And so does jln pahang, east west lah link, part of besraya, Jln cheras, and so on.

JEFFREY ANG

March 29th, 2013, 04:07 AM

Someone conveniently forgetting something in his back yard.

Muar bridge is now free. And so does jln pahang, east west lah link, part of besraya, Jln cheras, and so on.
Did you know how many bombardment, anger and threat from Muar peple when they want to put a toll at Muar bridge??? That was after tonnes of Muarians showed their anger and dissatisfaction and disappointment. Jalan Pahang, Cheras and all those tolls existed how many years before BN dismantled it??? How much money have the government's cronies earned already??? I still remember the conditions of the road was like hell for Jalan Pahang although you paid the toll, same goes for Cheras toll and so on.

EricOng

March 29th, 2013, 09:40 AM

Someone conveniently forgetting something in his back yard.

Muar bridge is now free. And so does jln pahang, east west lah link, part of besraya, Jln cheras, and so on.

What about the other major highways? LDP, NKVE, MAX, Kesas, Karak, NPE? And most importantly PLUS?

CxIxMaN

March 29th, 2013, 11:11 AM

cannot la... penang ppl simply park their car... if a car blocked the road... then the tram ma stuck?

I think if a car was left on a train track, the train has a right to hit it off because the train cant stop in time. Same could be applied to trams.

dengilo

March 29th, 2013, 01:56 PM

I hesitate to drive in melbourne because of hook turn!:lol:

johan is

April 6th, 2013, 07:15 PM

Lagi penduduk bantah projek bina terowong

WARTAWAN SINAR HARIAN
3 April 2013

http://www.sinarharian.com.my/edisi/utara/lagi-penduduk-bantah-projek-bina-terowong-1.145610

BAGAN AJAM - Tindakan Kerajaan Pulau Pinang yang bertegas mahu merealisasikan pembinaan terowong dasar laut sekali lagi mendapat maklum balas kurang menyenangkan rakyat di negeri ini.

Penduduk sekitar Bagan Ajam dan nelayan pantai, Pantai Bersih di sini hadir berdemonstrasi untuk membantah projek mega bernilai RM4.08 bilion itu, semalam.

Kebanyakan mereka bangkit selepas Ketua Menteri, Lim Guan Eng dilihat tidak mengambil kira pandangan rakyat terlebih dahulu sebelum meluluskan tender projek berkenaan.

Ketua Unit Persatuan Nelayan Bagan Ajam, Mazlan Abdul, 38, berkata, pembinaan terowong dasar laut yang akan menghubungkan Persiaran Gurney di sebelah pulau dan Bagan Ajam di kawasan mereka dilihat boleh memberi kesan buruk kepada nelayan pantai kawasan berkenaan.

“Jika projek mega ini dibiarkan dibina, kawasan penangkapan ikan di sekitar lokasi ini akan terganggu hingga menjejas pendapatan nelayan yang hanya bergantung kepada hasil laut semata-mata.

“Ekosistem kehidupan marin di kawasan ini pastinya akan terganggu menyebabkan nelayan terpaksa beralih mencari lokasi lain untuk menangkap ikan,” katanya.

Mazlan berkata, keadaan ini menyebabkan nelayan terpaksa mengeluarkan kos tambahan untuk ke lokasi baru dan menyediakan peralatan memukat bersesuaian sedangkan sebagai nelayan pantai, rata-rata mereka terdiri dari keluarga miskin dan tidak berharta.

Sementara itu, Pengerusi Jawatankuasa Kemajuan dan Keselamatan Kampung Persekutuan (JKKKP) Bagan Ajam, Tajuddin Ibrahim, 59, berkata, sudah semestinya penduduk yang mendiami kawasan berkenaan diarah berpindah jika projek itu dilaksanakan juga.

“Kawasan penempatan ini merupakan satu-satunya kampung Melayu yang tinggal di negeri ini dan didiami lebih 4,000 keluarga yang rata-ratanya terdiri dari nelayan.

“Jika diarah berpindah mereka akan kehilangan pekerjaan untuk menyara keluarga masing-masing dan sudah tentu menjadi bebanan untuk beralih kerja kelak,” katanya.

Turut hadir mengadakan demonstrasi membantah projek berkenaan ialah Adun Telok Air Tawar, Datuk Jahara Abdul Hamid.

EricOng

April 6th, 2013, 08:49 PM

Lagi penduduk bantah projek bina terowong

crap

How to trust Sinar Harian when they even refused to sell ads to Penang govt?

ScuderiaVincero

April 7th, 2013, 05:17 AM

Let the exercise of free speech, BEGIN!!! :banana:

dcOhiney

April 7th, 2013, 05:20 AM

How to trust Sinar Harian when they even refused to sell ads to Penang govt?

I think u confused sinar harian with harian metro. Sinar harian is known to be unbiased

Vince

April 8th, 2013, 10:46 PM

Someone conveniently forgetting something in his back yard.

Muar bridge is now free. And so does jln pahang, east west lah link, part of besraya, Jln cheras, and so on.

So malu......:lol:

lohxy

April 10th, 2013, 05:46 PM

What about the other major highways? LDP, NKVE, MAX, Kesas, Karak, NPE? And most importantly PLUS?

The other highways had their contract period just started from 2000's. It will last about 20 years usually.
Oh and PLUS is a special case. No matter how I never wished that PLUS would be made free. As PLUS is a listed company in Bursa, they need to provide quality service to earn more profit. At least by now we can see that the condition of PLUS is very good.
Even France, UK, Spain (and other countries to be listed, maybe China) still have tolls on the intercity expressway. Germany is a special case. The Autobahn is free for driver, but they have a "special" payment for usage of the highway which is through petrol.
Do make your research if you don't agree with the points. :cheers:

atmapg

April 10th, 2013, 05:55 PM

The other highways had their contract period just started from 2000's. It will last about 20 years usually.
Oh and PLUS is a special case. No matter how I never wished that PLUS would be made free. As PLUS is a listed company in Bursa, they need to provide quality service to earn more profit. At least by now we can see that the condition of PLUS is very good.
Even France, UK, Spain (and other countries to be listed, maybe China) still have tolls on the intercity expressway. Germany is a special case. The Autobahn is free for driver, but they have a "special" payment for usage of the highway which is through petrol.
Do make your research if you don't agree with the points. :cheers:

Correction, in the UK all motorways (expressways/autobahns) are FREE except for the M6 Tolled in the Midlands, and as are the motorways in Ireland, Belgium, The Netherlands, Luxemburg, Denmark , etc.

asd5139

April 10th, 2013, 07:07 PM

Correction, in the UK all motorways (expressways/autobahns) are FREE except for the M6 Tolled in the Midlands, and as are the motorways in Ireland, Belgium, The Netherlands, Luxemburg, Denmark , etc.

All Ireland(Republic) motorways are tolled.

You can check it here http://www.highwaymaps.eu
and in fact there are actually 2 toll plazas on M6 between Dublin and Galway.

erwinkarim

April 11th, 2013, 05:53 AM

Correction, in the UK all motorways (expressways/autobahns) are FREE except for the M6 Tolled in the Midlands, and as are the motorways in Ireland, Belgium, The Netherlands, Luxemburg, Denmark , etc.

most developed countries where the motorways are free have their expenses paid by petrol taxes.

EricOng

April 12th, 2013, 05:43 PM

The other highways had their contract period just started from 2000's. It will last about 20 years usually.
Oh and PLUS is a special case. No matter how I never wished that PLUS would be made free. As PLUS is a listed company in Bursa, they need to provide quality service to earn more profit. At least by now we can see that the condition of PLUS is very good.
Even France, UK, Spain (and other countries to be listed, maybe China) still have tolls on the intercity expressway. Germany is a special case. The Autobahn is free for driver, but they have a "special" payment for usage of the highway which is through petrol.
Do make your research if you don't agree with the points. :cheers:

Except that I'm sure that those toll companies don't earn about 50% profit annually, do they?
Talking about petrol taxes, of course la. They're not net exporter of oil what, but Malaysia is!

fasszz

April 12th, 2013, 10:32 PM

guys...our national income each year is HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS okay...i dont wanna touch about politics in here but....

we are a very rich country, but needs a real good man to make sure every sen is worth it....:lol::lol::lol:

toll can be made free.....

JEFFREY ANG

April 13th, 2013, 05:11 AM

Except that I'm sure that those toll companies don't earn about 50% profit annually, do they?
Talking about petrol taxes, of course la. They're not net exporter of oil what, but Malaysia is!
I only know that these highway concessionaire companies annual net profit is at least by hundred millions of ringgit. E.g. Plus Expressway Berhad net profit for 2011 was RM420 million??? And every year net profit is as almost good as that. And yet these companies SHAMELESSLY demand toll hikes once every two years??? They even claim doing business was not easy and they have BIG expenditure. Yeah, sure so big until got such a HUGE net profit. Worst still, if the government did not allow the toll hike, the government has to use HUGE SUM of rakyat's money or national treasury to "compensate" these highway/expressway concessionaire companies. Talking about "LAWLESS DAYLIGHT ROBBING", I think these companies deserve this "title".

ScuderiaVincero

April 15th, 2013, 12:51 PM

atmapg

April 15th, 2013, 03:53 PM

I have a question, gentlemen. Your topic of discussion over the last few posts was the free tolls as part of Pakatan Rakyat's manifesto. For the sake of clarification, who's going to foot the bill for maintaining the highways?

Just to clarify a bit : All the proposed 3nos. highways and the tunnel will be paid via a land swap deal, the said land being reclaimed off Tg. Tokong. So no money involved at all.

LGE further clarified that the tunnel has to be toll-imposed as all the other channel-crossings (ie. Ferry, 1st Bridge and future 2nd Bridge) have toll imposed. If not, then most (if not all) vehicles would be using the tunnel and its operator would be liable to be sued the operators of the other cross-channel entity for loss of income! Please correct me if I'm wrong.

ScuderiaVincero

April 15th, 2013, 05:30 PM

LGE further clarified that the tunnel has to be toll-imposed as all the other channel-crossings (ie. Ferry, 1st Bridge and future 2nd Bridge) have toll imposed. If not, then most (if not all) vehicles would be using the tunnel and its operator would be liable to be sued the operators of the other cross-channel entity for loss of income! Please correct me if I'm wrong.

That's for sure, need to keep traffic balanced amongst the access points. :cheers:

I was going rather off topic actually; wanted to ask about the overall plans for toll removals. If the freeways are toll free, what would finance their maintenance?

atmapg

April 15th, 2013, 05:45 PM

That's for sure, need to keep traffic balanced amongst the access points. :cheers:

I was going rather off topic actually; wanted to ask about the overall plans for toll removals. If the freeways are toll free, what would finance their maintenance?

I assumed that after the tolls are removed then they will revert to being 'normal' roads/highways and to be maintained by either JKR or LLM, so the maintenance cost will be borne through our road tax and/or vehicular tax.

erwinkarim

April 15th, 2013, 06:29 PM

I assumed that after the tolls are removed then they will revert to being 'normal' roads/highways and to be maintained by either JKR or LLM, so the maintenance cost will be borne through our road tax and/or vehicular tax.

llm manage highway concessionaires.

even if they win tomorrow, the tolls won't be free immediately was their operation is legally bounded by contract. basically, if you want toll-free the government has to pay for cost of building the highway in the first place and compensation for loss of income.

case in point EPF tried to buy plus for RM33 billion. so the cost to by back all the highway is around RM50-100 billion.

yeah sure epf have RM300-400 billion but it's kinda silly to spend all that money so you feel good not paying tolls.

ScuderiaVincero

April 16th, 2013, 03:50 AM

patchay

April 16th, 2013, 06:19 AM

Highways are by privatised concessions... and to abolish tolls the Government will have to take over all the concessions. Toll operators will also need to be compensated through a newly-set-up fund already mentioned in the PR Manifesto. Many of the concession holders also have obligations to banks, syndicated funders and their stakeholders including the public (for those owned by EPF or listed ones). Bear in mind, the highways are built with lotsa paperwork done and I believe buying over the concessions would also need to involve legal studies, due diligence testing and audits.

Just like a normal mortgage, what happens if you terminate early? There are also penalties or worst case scenario in this issue, the toll companies also have the right to dispute. Besides that, all the vendors of maintenance and highway support businesses will also need to be sorted out. The total costs of abolishing tolls have not been made public.

How all the whole thing works... nobody knows as of now. How new sources of revenue for the government's lost of immediate revenue from taxing toll companies are also unknown.

The questions whether the private sector concessionaires are better off at managing highways and to remove its burden on Government's fiscal policies remained unanswered.

gabriellim

April 16th, 2013, 12:51 PM

From Insider (http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/uem-epf-waive-rm6.5b-plus-compensation):

PLUS Malaysia is the investment vehicle owned 51 per cent by UEM Group and 49 per cent by EPF.

UEM Group is a wholly owned subsidiary of state asset manager Khazanah Nasional Berhad.

EPF and UEM had last November proposed to privatise PLUS Expressways for RM23 billion but with the condition that the toll concessions be revised.

And from http://islam.ru (http://islam.ru/en/content/story/saudi-arabia-asia-set-dominate-sukuk-market-2012):

Plus Expressways is actually owned by UEM Group Berhad, which in turn is largely owned by Malaysian sovereign wealth fund (SWF), Khazanah Nasional Berhad, which is very active in the sukuk market - both domestic and cross-border. Khazanah for instance remains the only issuer to have raised funds through local currency sukuk in Singapore (S$1.5 billion) and in China (renminbi - RMB500 million).

Other members of the PLUS Expressways Group include Expressway Lingkaran Tengah Sdn Bhd (ELITE), Linkedua (Malaysia) Berhad (Linkedua), Konsortium Lebuhraya Butterworth-Kulim (KLBK) Sdn Bhd and is a substantial shareholder in PLUS BKSP Toll Limited (PLUS BKSP), Indu Navayuga Infra Projects Private Limited (INIPPL), PLUS Helicopter Services Sdn Bhd (PHS), Teras Teknologi Sdn Bhd (TERAS), Touch 'n Go Sdn Bhd (TNG), PLUS BKSP via PLUS Kalyan (Mauritius) Private Limited and Jetpur Somnath Tollways Limited (JSTL) in India and PT Lintas Marga Sedaya (LMS) in Indonesia. PLUS Expressways was listed on the main board of Bursa Malaysia in 2002 and is the largest toll expressway company in Southeast Asia and one of the largest in the world by market capitalization.

PLUS Expressways Berhad holds 94.12 percent direct and indirect interest in PLUS BKSP via PLUS Kalyan (Mauritius) Private Limited.

In view of this, is PLUS still a privatised concessionaire? Or considered Government already taken over the concession?

What is the amount of income they have spent over the years for the construction and maintenance of expressway? What is the toll they have collected so far?

Interesting facts related to another expressway concession, Damansara Puchong Putrajaya Expressway (LDP, the western half of MRR2) from Guan Eng (http://dapmalaysia.org/english/2007/mar07/lge/lge582.htm), something Utusan, The Star, TV3 or Bernama might hesitate to share with us:

For an initial capital cost of RM 1,327 million, inclusive of capitalised interest of RM 142.3 million, this 30 year concession agreement allow Litrak to a profit before tax of RM 27,066 million and an after-tax profit of RM 18,865 million. To get a profit after tax of RM 18,865 million from an initial capital outlay of only RM 1,327 million is a fantastic return of investment of 1,322%. In other words by 2029, Litrak would earn more than 13 times what it put in.

tomkat

April 16th, 2013, 02:53 PM

I assumed that after the tolls are removed then they will revert to being 'normal' roads/highways and to be maintained by either JKR or LLM, so the maintenance cost will be borne through our road tax and/or vehicular tax.

Don't think this is fair. Why would an uncle who lives in a remote town in Perlis that may be only have two major roads needs to pay an equal amount of roadtax as road users in KL so that the money can be channeled to maintain those gleaming highways around KL?

atmapg

April 16th, 2013, 03:39 PM

Don't think this is fair. Why would an uncle who lives in a remote town in Perlis that may be only have two major roads needs to pay an equal amount of roadtax as road users in KL so that the money can be channeled to maintain those gleaming highways around KL?

FYI fairness doesn't come into play with regards to our taxes. Whoever controls the federal govt. control the taxes and can spend it however they like (with the 'approval' from the Parliament of course!), and surely they tend to 'help' their 'friends'.

FNNG

April 16th, 2013, 04:07 PM

Logical thinking, if they abolish all the toll means they need to pay a "huge" amount of money to compensate the company. Where they will get that money? Tax??? IMO whoever use the highway need to pay. It's not fair to increase the whole nation tax just to make sure few road are free. If all road are free, then some road will be congested so badly until we can't even move our car coz everyone will try to use the fastest lane to go back. Like for me, sometimes i just use a further way to go back home because its toll free. If I feel like wanted to go back home faster, i just pay the toll. (lesser car)

So if in future pakatan wanted to build a highway, they will make sure its free and the government will build it? Well, i believe in free economy, ppl build it because there is profit. Like the LEKAS highway (i believe it is a private company who build it) it makes kajang and seremban nearer. I don't believe the government will build it coz the government won't even care to build that highway, the government will be more focus on national highway instead of small city to small city highway. For now i still don't trust our government department (even pakatan take over, still need to take some time to change the mentality of our civil servant) I cannot imagine the quality of the road. Since now most of our highway are maintain by profit oriented company, their maintenance sure will be better than our government one.

ScuderiaVincero

April 17th, 2013, 06:13 PM

Entah, if taxes aren't raised, I'll assume each state collects their own road tax to maintain their own roads (last time out, Perlis' roads were smoooooth). But I certainly wouldn't agree to a rise in road tax just so the highways can be "free."

There's only one way I'd agree to a tax raise: to provide quality free education. Ala Scandinavia.

Neb81

April 22nd, 2013, 02:47 AM

erwinkarim

April 22nd, 2013, 04:18 AM

I am not a fan of the PR idea for free tolls. It would only encourage more car use. I'd suggest the government bites the bullet and buys out the concessions, and caps toll increases to the rate of inflation. Profits from tolls are kept transparent, and ringfenced for investments in improving public transport.

In the interests of tackling congestion it might be worth rethinking tolls on the urban expressways in the klang valley, and replacing them with a toll to enter the CBD and old city centre. Moving the tolls from the highways to the city itself would get more traffic off of city streets, making walking and cycling more attractive, make bus travel faster and generally make the city more people-friendly and livable.

funny, some guys thots on that...

http://satdthinks.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-tale-of-2-bijik-kereta-murah.html?utm_source=feedly

http://econsmalaysia.blogspot.com/2013/03/cheaper-cars-makes-economic-sense.html

so bottom line is this:-

"Needless to say, the Manifesto wants to increase subsidies on petrol instead, which doesn’t make economic sense on many levels. Just as cheaper cars would increase car ownership, cheaper petrol would increase car use and therefore increase the public costs incurred from same. There would also be greater wastage, as prices lower than the market-clearing price reduces the incentive to use a resource efficiently. Adoption of alternative fuels and green auto technology would be set back. The public costs would well outweigh any private benefits from such a policy mix, even if you exclude the fiscal implications. Moreover, cheaper petrol and cheaper cars would severely undermine the viability of an expansion in public transport, which both sides ostensibly support. Given the relative merits of private (convenience) versus public transport (cost saving), reducing the gap between the two makes the economic and financial case for public transport that much weaker. Public transport would turn into a publicly funded white elephant. The economic case for removing excise duties on cars is clear – more competition, more consumer choice, greater efficiency. You only have to account for the negative externalities of car use.The economic case for increasing subsidies on petrol is even clearer, because there isn’t one. Instead, both economic theory and global practice suggest that the optimum, social welfare-maximising policy is to tax petrol use, not subsidise it. Put these together with the plan for public transport, and you have what can best be described as an inconsistent, even schizophrenic, approach to public and private transportation. The very same analysis that supports removing duties on cars provides the rationale for removing, not increasing, subsidies on petrol. Reducing the private costs of car use, which are already low, will guarantee the failure of public transport policy. The public non-fiscal costs of reducing private costs of car use will also likely offset the private benefits involved. From my point of view, this is simply not a good, or even coherent, policy mix."