"Zunds"... or the new "Acropolis" in Riga - renderings

[Gatis]

Detailed planning for "Akropolis" quartal is approaching the end. It is done by architect Ugis Senbergs - he has designed also Centra nams (which starts to look just excellent!)
Area - 70 ha. Currently there is located old, abandoned Soviet time factory of agricultural machinery - nothing nice. Detailed design documents say that there are also some old wooden buildings which would be preserved... but I have not been in this jungle myself.
Area is bordering with Zunda channel - waterbody which divides Kipsala island from mainland. Area itself is located on mainland. It is part of the planned Kipsala highrise district.

Lithuanian investors "VP Market" are planning to develop here high-end 24 hours alive multifunctional centre with area exceeding 150 000 m2. The works had to start last month... but did not - due to upscaling of the project and additional designing activities. And it is worth to wait a little to get something better planned!
Plan of the area:
http://img21.exs.cx/img21/5403/mAkropolis_plans.jpg
Area will have five massive triangular highrise office towers (1). 2 - multifloor car park. 3 - the largest area - shopping and entertainment centre. 4 - Daugavgrivas Street - it will be reconstructed. It is planned that further to the right it will go under ground - but this isn't part of this project. 5 - new street to be built by City along Zunda channel. 6 - new street and bridge built by City to unite Imanta district with Kipsala. 7 - public transportation stop for river transportation and trolleybus. 8 - new - Azene Plaza. Rised terrace for entering into offices and shopping centre. 9 - new - Zunda Plaza, the same. 10 - Boat station. 11, 12 - waterside caffe, restaurant. 13 - Zunda Channel waterfront in stone or concrete. 14 - landscaped Zunda channel waterfront. 15 - the most tricky part - elevated walkways to unite everything and to provide fine views.
Here - 3D rendering:
http://img21.exs.cx/img21/27/mAkropolis_render.jpg
In the background there is seen the historical part of Pardaugava - including the Martina church - which in fact is quite big.
The enormous roof of the shoppping centre would be shaped as shiny, wawy surface with lighted lines of walkways - to resemble the surface of Daugava river. The highrises would be shaped as large glass "cliffs" in this wavy "water". All of this should provide wonderful view from the other highrises in Kipsala.
The restaurants and caffes at the waterside would be located in the existing old wooden buildings.
And here - inner view with elevated walkways (hope - they will add railings):
http://img21.exs.cx/img21/8606/Akropolis_skats.jpg
"VP Market" is developing part of this complex - other part should be developed by City or other investors. There could be needed large conference centre.
Zunda Channel is planned as international yachting channel where people can arrive from other countries, leave their yachts and have fun as long as they want and in any time of the day.

Now I m puzzled. There were talks about two highrises. And here are five.?

[John]

Wow this looks huge and freaky! :eek:

Btw, are they really going to name it "Akropolis" or find some different name?

[Gatis]

Absolutely no idea about the name. Today I found just an announcement that the planned "VP Market" investment now is increased to 135 mio EUR.

[Mantas]

Freaky :crazy: Seems like a huge project (and expensive!), at least it will make Riga more lithuanian :D ;)

[LatvianGG]

No Mantaz, it will make VP more latvian :D

[John]

In the next 1-2 years 3 new "Akropolis" (name might be different) centers will open in Riga, Kaunas and Klaipeda besides the one being enlarged in Vilnius...
And I think it doesn't matter whether Riga will become more Lithuanian or VP will become more Latvian ;). What really matters is that it's not some Wallmart, Carrefour of whatever, they even seem to "occupy" such places as China, but not Lithuania or Latvia. And you may guess why this is so ;)

[Edd]

Very nice project. Only those walkways might spoil the whole view, but we'll see how it is going to look like.
Some interesting table:
http://vpmarket.lt/upload/1078412776_angl_2a.jpg

http://vpmarket.lt/upload/1078412996_angl_4a.jpg

This project is a good news both for Vilnius and Riga. I'm not 100% sure (I'm not very good in economics and such stuff) but money from Latvia will go to Lithuania and the budget of Vilnius ("VP market" is registered in Vilnius). Am I right?

[blimey]

Yeah it kicks ass.
Btw i think that VPM is now somewhat a pan-Baltic company since there's many Latvians in the management and they've even shifted their head office to Riga [a PR trick, but still]. I think Latvians shouldnt complain much, a Lithuanian-Latvian company [more Lithuanian, but still] will always be much better than some English or French company for your suppliers.

[John]

@Edd

in theory you should be right but in reality all those money will be invested and they won't be invested only in Lithuania, there will be a few more big projects (Akropolis in Kaunas and Klaipeda) and it will be over with Lithuania, our market will be full. While they are going to expand in Estonia so I'm "afraid" most of those money will go to new T-Markets, Maximas and Akropols in Estonia, not even mentioning VP's other plans (Ukraine, Romania etc.) :|

[Edd]

@Edd

in theory you should be right but in reality all those money will be invested and they won't be invested only in Lithuania, there will be a few more big projects (Akropolis in Kaunas and Klaipeda) and it will be over with Lithuania, our market will be full. While they are going to expand in Estonia so I'm "afraid" most of those money will go to new T-Markets, Maximas and Akropols in Estonia, not even mentioning VP's other plans (Ukraine, Romania etc.) :|
What?? I don't understand what you have just said :).
I thought that Latvians, Estonians, Poles, Romanians, etc. will buy something in the shops of "VP market" but the taxes by VP market will add to the budgets of Lithuania and Vilnius.

[John]

Edd, is my English really that bad? :?

Do you think VP Market is not paying taxes in other countries? And where do you think all those money for a new Akropolis and other supermarkets in Latvia or Estonia come from? So don't be so sure that all those money will somehow just get back into Lithuania, they just will circulate here and there from one country to another and vice versa. What's so difficult to understand here, it's how the market works ;)

[Gatis]

Quite a profit goes to Lithuania, of course. There are lots of Lithuanian products sold... although their share is decreasing. I am sad but I can not find one kind of sweets there anymore - it is something like a large cookie looking like a heap. In some supermarkets they still are sold but not so often anymore. These Lithuanian products are transported by Lithuanian transportation companies, insured by Lithuanians etc etc.
But regarding the taxes of companies... In December there will be established Latvian company named "Rigas akropole" or something like this. They will be responsible about the realisation of this project.
I have also understood that VP Market top management will move into the highrises shown in the pictures. At least they have said so some time ago. There will be totally Latvian based company paying taxes to Latvian state budget. In fact they are already among the big taxpayers here.
At the same time Lithuanian VP Market still will be Lithuanian enterprise paying taxes to Lithuania.

Another thing is profit of VP Market. This is up to the management of company to decide where the profit goes. Sometimes it is used just for some private pockets, but in most cases - for development of company. Smaller share is spent on charity etc.

[Mantas]

@Edd

The tax of profit earned in one country goes to the same country budget, so the money earned in Latvia won't go to Lithuania's budget in any way ;) Moreover, money flow where the investment goes, so as John mentioned, it will reach such countries where VP is going to expand in ;)

[Edd]

Edd, is my English really that bad? :?
I wasn't talking about your English when I said "I don't understand".

Do you think VP Market is not paying taxes in other countries? And where do you think all those money for a new Akropolis and other supermarkets in Latvia or Estonia come from? So don't be so sure that all those money will somehow just get back into Lithuania, they just will circulate here and there from one country to another and vice versa. What's so difficult to understand here, it's how the market works ;)
Somewhy I thought that "VP market" is the same company in all countries but I was wrong. Is it necessary to open local companies in different countries in order to work there even inside EU?

[Mantas]

^^^ Yep, you must register a company if you want to do any kind of activity there

[Edd]

^^^ Yep, you must register a company if you want to do any kind of activity there
I don't know what I was thinking - if it wasn't so then probably rich countries with big companies would have already conquered economies of our small and poor countries :).

I think that we should stop this discussion about "economic things" in this thread because it's a bit off topic.

[Gatis]

Why should you stop this economic discussion? There is happening too little in this forum to stop any meaningful discussion...

[Edd]

Why should you stop this economic discussion? There is happening too little in this forum to stop any meaningful discussion...
Maybe there is too little of such discussions in this forum but I still think that this thread is not the right place for them (we should create such threads in the skybar). Also, notice that only few Lithuanians and one Latvian commented the "Akropolis" project although this project is one of the biggest in the Baltic states - it means that we are spoiling this thread with such our discussions ;).

So I'm getting back to the topic:
What I really like about this and some other projects in Riga is that it'll form a nice waterfront. And I always liked highrise clusters which are being developed near the water (unless they block access for people to the river).
Btw this project is a great addition to many other projects in Riga and it seems that Riga is planing very much for the future (from what we know today I think that even more than Vilnius and Tallinn combined) :okay:.

[Gatis]

:) Glad to hear it. I am glad also that the two more highrises in Jugla (25 and 24 floors) would form waterfront at Jugla and Kisezers lakes.
I am quite worried about Kliversala highrise district... Do not know what to write to Riga City Development Department about this...

[pablonis]

stupid conversation, VP market is and will be a lithuanian firm, not only because all the shareholders are lithuanians, you can even look at the name (VP market - VILNIAUS PREKYBA market :)

[Kommandant Mark]

Interesting thread!
SOmething similar here in the Balkans, with Slovenia's Mercator(mercator.si) expanding everywhere;)

I was wonder, does the VP Market have any plans for expansion outside of the Baltic states? Surely Belarus, with 10 million population, would be a great market for them? Or maybe the conditions there are not good, yet...?

[Geex]

Interesting thread!
SOmething similar here in the Balkans, with Slovenia's Mercator(mercator.si) expanding everywhere;)

I was wonder, does the VP Market have any plans for expansion outside of the Baltic states? Surely Belarus, with 10 million population, would be a great market for them? Or maybe the conditions there are not good, yet...?

No investments in Belarus is planed yeat.

Now on their plans they got: Estonia, Poland, Romania (don't know why) and Ukraine.

[John]

Interesting thread!
SOmething similar here in the Balkans, with Slovenia's Mercator(mercator.si) expanding everywhere;)

I was wonder, does the VP Market have any plans for expansion outside of the Baltic states? Surely Belarus, with 10 million population, would be a great market for them? Or maybe the conditions there are not good, yet...?

Currently VP Market is #1 retail chain in Lithuania and Latvia, their nearest goal is to become #1 chain in Estonia (in about 3 years from now) and I can bet they are going to reach this :)
As for other countries, next year they are planning to open first stores in Romania and Bulgaria, and if it would be successful then possibly their chain would expand there.
In fact that's what they are doing - opening a few small stores, if they are successful then open a few more bigger ones and if this is successful as well then a large scale expansion is starting. This happened in Lithuania back in 1998-2002 and a bit later in Latvia (they became the biggest chain just in a couple of years). Nowadays there are 10 small supermarkets in Estonia, next year there should be ~30 or more. I love this company and they way they do their business :)

[Geex]

BTW VP market is allready in Poland with another network of this group "Euro Vaistinė", they allready have more than 100 shops in polands (mostly in Warsaw).

[Mantas]

Interesting thread!
SOmething similar here in the Balkans, with Slovenia's Mercator(mercator.si) expanding everywhere;)

I was wonder, does the VP Market have any plans for expansion outside of the Baltic states? Surely Belarus, with 10 million population, would be a great market for them? Or maybe the conditions there are not good, yet...?
Don't be surprised if they get a baltic competitor in few years, because VPmarket growth rates are big enough :|

e.g., they entered Latvia 2002 now they are #1 there with ~25% market share ;)

[Kommandant Mark]

Just did some checking, for comparison purposes.

Slovenia's Mercator has 15.000 employees and annual revenues exceed 1.5 billion euros. About similar to VP Market:)

Oh and 1.000 shops in four countries - Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia & Montenegro.

[John]

Just did some checking, for comparison purposes.

Slovenia's Mercator has 15.000 employees and annual revenues exceed 1.5 billion euros. About similar to VP Market:)

Oh and 1.000 shops in four countries - Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia & Montenegro.

Mercator better starts to pray so that VP Market won't come to it's current market fields ;)

[ch1le]

Currently VP Market is #1 retail chain in Lithuania and Latvia, their nearest goal is to become #1 chain in Estonia (in about 3 years from now) and I can bet they are going to reach this :)


its a great company indeed, but people here dont like it, do what you want, but cheap food is out, although, if they get Maximas and Medias here their prospects will increase by alot! But atm, the food market is filled in Tallinn, and the rest of the cities, well, are they cities?

[Mantas]

^^^ Well, if they offer something better than their competitors offer, then I think there are some prospects :yes:

[ch1le]

cheaper doesnt mean better... but we'll see

[Mantas]

^^^ I mean Maximas and Medias. It's their tactic to put small stores firstly, then if they succeed, put bigger stores like M-series ;)

[ch1le]

Mantaz, but that means they wont bring m series...because Tmarket hasnt been that succesful imo

[Mantas]

^^^ Well, if they bring extra 20 T-markets so it was probably successful. Btw, last year there was only 1, in Pärnu, this year the number exceeded to 10 and next year it will be something like 30. That's something, IMO :)

[John]

its a great company indeed, but people here dont like it, do what you want, but cheap food is out, although, if they get Maximas and Medias here their prospects will increase by alot! But atm, the food market is filled in Tallinn, and the rest of the cities, well, are they cities?

According to one of the heads of VP Market Ignas Staskevicius, the first T-Market shops in Tallinn were very successful. Long queues of people appeared before the opening of one shop (it's hard to believe for me, are there no supermarkets in Tallinn? ;)). It seems that Estonians really like it (although I don't like T-Market/Saulute/Saulite, Maxima is what a good supermarket is all about). According to VP Market, they didn't plan to open bigger stores (Maxima) but since their start was very successful, next year they are about to open 25 new stores at least 2 of which - Maxima supermarkets - and eventually to become biggest chain in Estonia :)

[Kommandant Mark]

Opening day of first Mercator store in Belgrade;)

Sad day for Serbian nationalists:)

http://www.b92.net/galerija/pics/2002/12/1299318313def81faaae2b767361094.jpg

Nah, Mercator's CEO is Serb, Zoran Jankovic;)

[Geex]

Opening day of first Mercator store in Belgrade;)

Sad day for Serbian nationalists:)

http://www.b92.net/galerija/pics/2002/12/1299318313def81faaae2b767361094.jpg

Nah, Mercator's CEO is Serb, Zoran Jankovic;)

well... people are crazy ;)

[ch1le]

According to one of the heads of VP Market Ignas Staskevicius, the first T-Market shops in Tallinn were very successful. Long queues of people appeared before the opening of one shop (it's hard to believe for me, are there no supermarkets in Tallinn? ;)). It seems that Estonians really like it (although I don't like T-Market/Saulute/Saulite, Maxima is what a good supermarket is all about). According to VP Market, they didn't plan to open bigger stores (Maxima) but since their start was very successful, next year they are about to open 25 new stores at least 2 of which - Maxima supermarkets - and eventually to become biggest chain in Estonia :)

they are lyeing, well i know at frist people were curious about those shops, but alot of negative comments followed, tallinn area is pretty much covered with supermarkets, and people buy more stuff from supermarkets, tallinn market spaces are pretty much full, tmarket may be succesful in other parts of estonia, mostly eastern, i dont predict much success for them in tallinn, also, german LIDL is planning to enter...
ahh, and biggest chain, well, who cares, tmarts are small shops, they might conqour other parts of estonia, but tallinn is full, and thats just about what i care of, ofcourse shops which offer cheap stuff is welcome here, the poorer class might find them very good, like they did with Savingsmarket, but yeah, last 3-4 years heads are turning more and more towards big supermarkets, which tallinn is quite plentyful of.

lol, sorry, mostly bullshit i wrote, im tired :P

[Edd]

@ch1le: Big amount of shops in Tallinn does not mean anything - they can always be closed (and it'll happen when VP market will start to expand). Btw they plan to build not only T-markets.

[ch1le]

edd, erm, i doubt someone would close big markets which had cost hundreds of millions of kroons. Does a 500m2 T market give much competition for a 50000m2 shopping centre(theres alot of that size in tallinn).

[Edd]

edd, erm, i doubt someone would close big markets which had cost hundreds of millions of kroons. Does a 500m2 T market give much competition for a 50000m2 shopping centre(theres alot of that size in tallinn).
Do you read what we write? There were already some n times repeated that not only t-markets will be opened. And about "there is alot of 50000m2 shopping centers" - what is a number of 50 000 m2 shopping centers in Tallinn?

[Edd]

I have checked oberhaus. It seems that alot of 50 000 m2 shopping centers means "there are no shopping centers of 50 000m2 in Tallinn". ;) Well, maybe VP market will build one?

[Mantas]

That's market competition. If someone enters and succeeds, someone else have to leave. Simple as that :D

[Mantas]

www.skyscraper.favos.nl
Wtf? You think it's useful to spam in S&B section for this?

[Swede]

Spam removed :)

[Gatis]

Weird. Have not noticed spam here earlier.
In general Latvians are interested in success of VP Market in Estonia. This will mean more sense for central office with all the towers in Riga. But I personally do not have sympathies with this company... although am using their services rather often.

[pablonis]

well maybe we like this company because it born in our citie :) and you shouldn't be so happy abput that center, if the expansion in f.g. ukraine or romania will be succesful, they can easilly remove center from ryga to kyev or bucarest

[Rokas]

its a great company indeed, but people here dont like it, do what you want, but cheap food is out, although, if they get Maximas and Medias here their prospects will increase by alot! But atm, the food market is filled in Tallinn, and the rest of the cities, well, are they cities?

VP Market has announced that most probably they are going to buy some chain which now works in Estonia.

[Mantas]

btw, 12th store was opened today in Tallinn, probably just a week ago was 11th :| Another one will be opened next week in Narva

The store in Tallinn occupied a 528 m2 space and will soon be expanded to ~1000 to fit a Maxima there. So indeed Maximas are coming to Estonia ;)

[blimey]

That's good news.
I'm glad Estonians will finally catch up with Lithuania and Latvia and get some decent stores to buy their stuff in :okay:

[Gatis]

My experience is the opposite - Maxima's here in Latvia have somewhat lover standard than Citymarket and RIMI - but they win due to lover prices. If people can get cheaper products, they do not care about long queues, comparatively dirty floor, bad organisation at cashes (there is no place where to put the things and after payment on my purchase start moving the things of the next customer!), numerous wrong barcodes (girls at cash require me often to run after another piece of that product in hope that now the sticker with barcode would be OK), narrow car parking etc. etc. Who cares - they are cheaper! But for most part it is OK - there are fine pastries and Zementalis cheese and all the other products I need.
I am among their customers quite often - until Riga Plaza would be built a bit nearer to my house. Then we will see - who will sell the food there and would it be better.
- - -
Over the next year VP Market promises 65 mio EUR investments in Latvia, in this sum not included the costs to build "Akropolis". Among others there would be built new supermarket on Krasta Street with name "Ermitage" (wow, should we believe - this is art museum?!)

[Mantas]

OMG, they are already planning to build Ermitage :eek: The thing is that they have opened the first one in exntension of Akropolis just 2 weeks ago. This caused a war between Vpmarket and finnish Senukai (Kesko or smth), which was the leader and Ermitage is going to kick its ass :D

Another Ermitage is planned to build near Kaunas

[Gatis]

Did not understand - Senukai is Lithuanian chain of utensil shops. Kesko is Finnish retailer. What problems they have with VP Market who builds supermarket named "Ermitage"?

[Mantas]

Senukai is managed by Kesko ;)

The problem is that it's the same market and Senukai is dominating power, so they are afraid to loose this postition and started to persuade it's channels not to sell goods to Ermitage. Too bad there's a free competition department :D

[Gatis]

I see. Here in Latvia besides Senukai is Danish Jysk and Swedish... something I do not remember. Sometimes all are in one supermarket.

[Oberleutnant]

Damn, Finnish companies truly act like mafia in the Baltic countries, based on what I've heard here.

[Mantas]

There are not many finnish companies, but most that've been here acted like *earners*. Say, Lithuanian Telecom was sold to a finnish group and the prices just jumped by 100% in few months. That was a moment for cellular operators and Telecom isn't used as much for now

[Geex]

Senukai is managed by Kesko ;)

The problem is that it's the same market and Senukai is dominating power, so they are afraid to loose this postition and started to persuade it's channels not to sell goods to Ermitage. Too bad there's a free competition department :D

I wont be so happy about VP market.

Sorry, a little bit in Lithuanian.

Čia mūsų kaimynams dėl bendro Lietuvos įvaizdžio žinoti gal ir nereik. Šiaip ar taip nebūčiau toks laimingas dėl VP market, matyt nematėt šitos įstaigos iš vidaus, paradinė pusė atrodo šiaip net labai gražiai, tačiau tai ką jie daro ištikrųjų verta pasibaisėjimo.

1) Viskas kas importuota VP marketo yra skirta 3-iojo pasaulio šalim, todėl gaunate produktą pigiau. Apie kokybę išskyrus gražų popierėlį galite pamiršti.

2) Nors jie ir apsimeta gerais, tačiau jau baigia prismaugti nemažą dalį Lietuvos importuotojų. Jie net neima prekių kol negauna 30% nuolaidos, dėlto kai kurios įmonės beveik už savikainą tiekia produktus į jų parduotuves. Beto jie kaip pelną gauną daugiau nei pusę pinigų nuo perkamos prekės. 30% nuolaida iš tiekėjo + 15-30% antkainis.

Galima būtų daug privardinti, bet manau esmę visi suprato.

[Gatis]

I would not say that Finnish are THAT bad. But Stockmann in Latvia still is the most black sheep - some weeks ago they announced that they want to remove the end station of tramline No.6 in order to build additional part of their shop. And they still have not done ANYTHING for the city, what was required by agreement between the city and Stockmann - f.e. construction of pedestrian tunnel between their shop and Old City, repair of nearby pedestrian tunnel. In this respect VP Market or Hansabanka or many other investors are much better.
Kesko here has quite good reputation - Citymarket is fine. Do not mind, Swedes have done even more corrupt things in Latvia. But nordic nations have done here even much more good things, so do not feel bad about yourselves.

[Mantas]

I wont be so happy about VP market.

Sorry, a little bit in Lithuanian.

Čia mūsų kaimynams dėl bendro Lietuvos įvaizdžio žinoti gal ir nereik. Šiaip ar taip nebūčiau toks laimingas dėl VP market, matyt nematėt šitos įstaigos iš vidaus, paradinė pusė atrodo šiaip net labai gražiai, tačiau tai ką jie daro ištikrųjų verta pasibaisėjimo.

1) Viskas kas importuota VP marketo yra skirta 3-iojo pasaulio šalim, todėl gaunate produktą pigiau. Apie kokybę išskyrus gražų popierėlį galite pamiršti.

2) Nors jie ir apsimeta gerais, tačiau jau baigia prismaugti nemažą dalį Lietuvos importuotojų. Jie net neima prekių kol negauna 30% nuolaidos, dėlto kai kurios įmonės beveik už savikainą tiekia produktus į jų parduotuves. Beto jie kaip pelną gauną daugiau nei pusę pinigų nuo perkamos prekės. 30% nuolaida iš tiekėjo + 15-30% antkainis.

Galima būtų daug privardinti, bet manau esmę visi suprato.
Nesupratau, ką tu turi omeny "skirta 3-iojo pasaulio šalims"? Juk matome, ką perkame, t.y. tos pačios prekės, kurias galima įsigyt kitose parduotuvėse. Dėl nuolaidų tai ne tik jiems, bet ir mums gerai, kad galime nusipirkt pigiau, be to tai normalus dalykas verslo pasauly stambiems pirkėjams teikt nuolaidas. Ir beje, iš kur čia tokių žinių ištraukei?

[Geex]

Nesupratau, ką tu turi omeny "skirta 3-iojo pasaulio šalims"? Juk matome, ką perkame, t.y. tos pačios prekės, kurias galima įsigyt kitose parduotuvėse. Dėl nuolaidų tai ne tik jiems, bet ir mums gerai, kad galime nusipirkt pigiau, be to tai normalus dalykas verslo pasauly stambiems pirkėjams teikt nuolaidas. Ir beje, iš kur čia tokių žinių ištraukei?

Kas dėl "skirta 3-iojo pasaulio šalims", kalba eina tik apie tas prekes, kurias importuoja pats VP marketas. O trečio pasaulio šalims skirtos prekės savo įpakavimu nesiskiria, tiesiog jos gaminamos iš prastesnės kokybės žaliavų ir t.t. ir t.t.

Dėl nuolaidų tai gerai tik VP marketui. Ar pastebėjai, kad VPM kainos labai skirtusi nuo Rimi arba Norfos kainų (Iki šiaip viskas keliais centais brangiau viskas). Visas pelnas už nuolaidą nueina į VPM kišenę. Šiaip nuolaidos savaime aišku nėra blogai, tačiau kai importuotojai/gamintojai smaugiami atiduoti prekę beveik už dyką, tai jau yra problema. Na o gamintojai negali netiekti prekių į VPM nes tai būtų jiems visiškas bankrotas. Jeigu gerai atsimenu tai pagal oficialius duomenys VPM užima ~30% Lietuvos rinkos, nors šiaip firmos apie 70+% visos produkcijos parduoda VPM.

Kas dėl mano žinių, tai turiu pažystamų žmonių, kurie dirba su VPM ir netgi, kurie dirba pačiame VPM.

[Edd]

@Geex: Tu cia mane prajuokinai, cia juk biznis, ko tu tikiesi? Visi galvoja kaip padaryti kuo didesni bizni sau, o ne kad butu visiems kitiems didelis biznis. Jeigu tu cia manai, kad cia kazkas siaubingo, tai pasidomejes giliau tokiais dalykais pvz. kurie vyksta Rubikone is viso pasiurpsi. Manau, kad dauguma zmoniu yra pernelyg naivus ir tiki kad viskas puiku bei tuo kaip nusviecia ziniasklaida, kuria taip pat valdo ne kas kitas o pinigai. Reikia nebuti naiviems ir zinoti, kad egzistuoja verslininku ir politiku veiklos "pogrindis", kuriame ne viskas taip grazu. Ir beje, nemanau kad kitose salyse yra viskas visiskai kitaip - tiesiog mokama geriau pasislepti nuo viesumos.

[Geex]

@Geex: Tu cia mane prajuokinai, cia juk biznis, ko tu tikiesi? Visi galvoja kaip padaryti kuo didesni bizni sau, o ne kad butu visiems kitiems didelis biznis. Jeigu tu cia manai, kad cia kazkas siaubingo, tai pasidomejes giliau tokiais dalykais pvz. kurie vyksta Rubikone is viso pasiurpsi. Manau, kad dauguma zmoniu yra pernelyg naivus ir tiki kad viskas puiku bei tuo kaip nusviecia ziniasklaida, kuria taip pat valdo ne kas kitas o pinigai. Reikia nebuti naiviems ir zinoti, kad egzistuoja verslininku ir politiku veiklos "pogrindis", kuriame ne viskas taip grazu. Ir beje, nemanau kad kitose salyse yra viskas visiskai kitaip - tiesiog mokama geriau pasislepti nuo viesumos.

Tas tiesa.. verslas yra verslas. Beje apie Rubikona irgi žinau ;)

Bet šiaip ar taip žinau ir kaip dirba kiti tinklai, jie irgi spaudžia tiekėjus daryti nuolaidas (kaip jau sakiau nuolaidos nėra blogai, ypač kai perkama didžiuliais kiekiais), bet VPM vaizdas jau darosi per daug žiaurus.

Štai bendras jo vaizdas:

VPM = monopolija rinkoje, mokeščių nemokėjimas, sutarčių nesilaikimas, neaiškių produktu didžiausias tiekėjas, kitų įmonių žlugdimas.

Šiaip normalu, kad visur yra korupcija, visi stengiasi pasidaryti pinigų sau, tačiau šiuo atveju tai jau darosi panašu į valstybę valstybėje, VPM negalioja jokie įstatymai.

[Edd]

@Geex: Ta pati galima pasakyti ir apie Rubicon ir turbut dar kelias kitas imones/imoniu grupes (turiu omeny mokesciu slepimas/vengimas, Zuoko palaiminta monopolija Vilniaus Energijoje, pramogu parke ir pan.). Rubikono veiklos metodai panasus i mafijos. O siaip viskas vyksta pagal principa - kuo daugiau naudos man, o del kitu nusispjauti.

[Geex]

@Geex: Ta pati galima pasakyti ir apie Rubicon ir turbut dar kelias kitas imones/imoniu grupes (turiu omeny mokesciu slepimas/vengimas, Zuoko palaiminta monopolija Vilniaus Energijoje, pramogu parke ir pan.). Rubikono veiklos metodai panasus i mafijos. O siaip viskas vyksta pagal principa - kuo daugiau naudos man, o del kitu nusispjauti.

Rubikonas šiaip galėtų su VPM susijungti, gautusi neblogas vaizdelis ;)

[pablonis]

susijungtu Rubikonas su VPM, tada vapshe pizdauskas gautusi, viens kita uzpjautu, ir dar imbrasa su kitais reksniais neryje plaukiancius rastu :)

[Rokas]

Geex, tai tu manau net nenumanai, kokia produkcija veza kitos firmos. Jei suzinotum, tai VPM vezamos prekes tau atrodytu lyg auksciausios klases. Kas del nuolaidu, tai l.daug firmu prekes prekybos tinklams tiekia su dideliom nuolaidom, kartais net virs 30% !!! Cia as tau galiu pasakyt tu jokios naujienos nepasakiai. Vadinas tu isvis nieko nezinai apie centru veikla, uzkuliusius.

P.S.: pats dirbau ir ne kokiu kroviku ;)

[Geex]

Geex, tai tu manau net nenumanai, kokia produkcija veza kitos firmos. Jei suzinotum, tai VPM vezamos prekes tau atrodytu lyg auksciausios klases. Kas del nuolaidu, tai l.daug firmu prekes prekybos tinklams tiekia su dideliom nuolaidom, kartais net virs 30% !!! Cia as tau galiu pasakyt tu jokios naujienos nepasakiai. Vadinas tu isvis nieko nezinai apie centru veikla, uzkuliusius.

P.S.: pats dirbau ir ne kokiu kroviku ;)

Aš žinau ką veža kai kurios firmos, bet naturalu, kad nežinau ką veža visos firmos. Aišku spėju, kad daugelis stengiasi įvežti šh produktą už minimalią kainą, tačiau kadangi žinojau ką veža VPM tai apie tai ir kalbėjau.

O kas dėl nuolaidų tai aš turėjau omenyje, kad jos jau žudo importuotojus, iki VPM atėjimo į rinką tokių nesamonių nebuvo (ką dar kalbėti apie visokius mokeščius, kuriuos VPM ima iš tiekėjų). Bet kadangi pats dirbai tai manau žinai. Šiaip jau sakiau, kad nuolaidos stambiems pirkėjams yra nieko blogo, tačiau dabar firmos jau neduoda nuolaidų VPM, jos tiesiog priverstos tiekti produktus su tokia ir tokia nuolaida. Ir kai firma įveža produktą į Lietuvą, o jį parduoda VPM su minimaliu pelnu, aišku, kad ji ieškos pigesnio produkto, tada pradeda dar didesnis š**** į rinką plaukti.

Aišku visa tai yra verslas ir pinigai, bet mano nuomone VPM jau darosi problema Lietuvoje, jeigu jie ir toliau taip reketuos visus iš eilės tai greit valgysim visiška šlamštą už daugiau ar mažiau panašią kainą.

Šiaip aišku ir kiti tinklai seka VPM iš paskos, vienintelis pusiau civilizuotai dirbantis tinklas Lietuvoje yra IKI (čia mano asmeninė nuomonė), jie nors negrasina tiekėjams, nenutraukinėją sutarčių, produktus pas juos galima tiekti centralizuotai ir t.t.

[Mantas]

Jei firmoms tai pasidarys nuostolinga, jos paprasčiausiai nebetieks VPM'ui, čia logiška ;)

[Geex]

Jei firmoms tai pasidarys nuostolinga, jos paprasčiausiai nebetieks VPM'ui, čia logiška ;)

Jos negali netiekti VPM, jos ten parduoda dauguma savo produkcijos. Čia tik mūsų papirkti valdininkai sako, kad nėra monopolijos Lietuvoje.

Šiaip ar taip nusišnekėjom mes čia ne į temą ;) Politika galima palikti ateities kartoms, geriau grįžtam prie to apie ką šis forumas :)

[Mantas]

Negi tu sakai, jog jos priverstos parduoti per VPM net jei iš to nuostolį gauna? Abejoju. Tik tiek, kad per nuolaidas sumažėja jų pelnas, tačiau VPM nėra netgi monopolis, o tik stambus dalininkas su ~25% visos mažmeninės rinkos. Taigi įmonėms yra didelė pasirinkimo galimybė, tarp jų ir eksportas ;)

[Rokas]

Jei firmoms tai pasidarys nuostolinga, jos paprasčiausiai nebetieks VPM'ui, čia logiška ;)

jei koks tinklas randa pigesni tiekeja, tai tas, kuris iki tol tieke, skrenda lauk is tiekeju sarasu ir ateina naujas. nebent yra kokie nors susitarimai apie kuriuos zino tik tie kuriems reikia.

[Rokas]

vat musu diskutuojama tema labai gerai atspindi, kaip siais laikais reikia geru pazinciu :)

[Geex]

Negi tu sakai, jog jos priverstos parduoti per VPM net jei iš to nuostolį gauna? Abejoju. Tik tiek, kad per nuolaidas sumažėja jų pelnas, tačiau VPM nėra netgi monopolis, o tik stambus dalininkas su ~25% visos mažmeninės rinkos. Taigi įmonėms yra didelė pasirinkimo galimybė, tarp jų ir eksportas ;)

~25% čia oficiali statistika, negi galvoji, kad VPM nori būti pripažintas monopolininkų? Valdininkai užtai gavo gražių pinigėlių.

O pasirinkimo galimybės čia Lietuvoje nėra, tiesa eksportas galimas, tačiau tik vietiniams gamintojams, tuo tarpu ką daryti importuotojams?

Aš ir nesakau, kad įmonės perduodamos į VPM gauna nuostolį tai jau būtų dar vienas žingsnis link bankrotas. Negaudamos paknkamai pelno įmonės papraščiausiai riboja savo išlaidas. Vienos gamina prastesnės kokybės produktus, kitos importuoją prastesnės kokybės produktus, mažina etatus ir t.t. ir taip ratas sukasi :) Tik man įdomu kiek laiko toks ratas galės suktis.

Aišku aš manau, kad mūsų verslininkai patys kalti, užsienyje tokios parduotuvės kaip VPM jau senai stovėtų tuščios ir niekas jom produktų netiektų. Aš nesuprantu, kodėl gamintojai ir importuotojai negali susivienyti nors trumpam.

BTW VPM labai gražiai ir pats moka importuoti ir jeigu įmonė nenori duoti didesnės nuolaidos jis papraščiausiai pats atsiveža tą prekę iš užsienio.

[Mantas]

~25% čia oficiali statistika, negi galvoji, kad VPM nori būti pripažintas monopolininkų? Valdininkai užtai gavo gražių pinigėlių.


Statistiką renka ne VPM

O pasirinkimo galimybės čia Lietuvoje nėra, tiesa eksportas galimas, tačiau tik vietiniams gamintojams, tuo tarpu ką daryti importuotojams?


Jei veiklos rūšis nuostolinga, tenka keist rūšį arba eit į kitą rinką ;)

Aš ir nesakau, kad įmonės perduodamos į VPM gauna nuostolį tai jau būtų dar vienas žingsnis link bankrotas. Negaudamos paknkamai pelno įmonės papraščiausiai riboja savo išlaidas. Vienos gamina prastesnės kokybės produktus, kitos importuoją prastesnės kokybės produktus, mažina etatus ir t.t. ir taip ratas sukasi :) Tik man įdomu kiek laiko toks ratas galės suktis.


Galbūt tai dingstis gaminti efektyviau, o kokybę reguliuoja įvairios institucijos kaip Valstybinė Maisto ir Veterinarijos Tarnyba (mano mama ten dirba)

Aišku aš manau, kad mūsų verslininkai patys kalti, užsienyje tokios parduotuvės kaip VPM jau senai stovėtų tuščios ir niekas jom produktų netiektų. Aš nesuprantu, kodėl gamintojai ir importuotojai negali susivienyti nors trumpam.

Verslo pasaulyje sienos neegzistuoja. Visur taip, kur rinkoja žaidžia stambūs mažmenininkai. Prie ko tas užsienis? :dunno: Dėl kooperavimosi, tai čia, jei neklystu, pažeidžiamas kartelio įstatymas. Už tai baudžiama

BTW VPM labai gražiai ir pats moka importuoti ir jeigu įmonė nenori duoti didesnės nuolaidos jis papraščiausiai pats atsiveža tą prekę iš užsienio.
Taip, bet jie pirma pažiūri, kas jiems pigiau atsieina.

[Geex]

Statistiką renka ne VPM

Statistika yra nerenkamas o perkamas daiktas Lietuvoje. Tereikia žinoti kam saldainį į kišenę įdėti.


Jei veiklos rūšis nuostolinga, tenka keist rūšį arba eit į kitą rinką ;)


Veiklos rūšis nėra nuostolinga. Tiesiog didelę dalį pelno pasiima prekybos tinklai.

Galbūt tai dingstis gaminti efektyviau, o kokybę reguliuoja įvairios institucijos kaip Valstybinė Maisto ir Veterinarijos Tarnyba (mano mama ten dirba)

Čia irgi nedidelė bėda, VMVT tikrina produktų kokybę, tačiau tokios kontrolės kokia yra niekam neužtenka. PAtikėk nenorėtum pamatyti sandėlių kur laikomos prekės. Iš esmės didžiausia kontrolė tai yra pasienis, ten paprastai iš kiekvienos importuojamos naujos siuntos paimami mėginiai, tačiau deja ir ten yra LABAI didelė korupcija. Todėl pas mus importuoja pakankamai visokio sh.

Aš negaliu nepasakyti, kad tikrai yra įmonių, kurios importuoja normalią produkciją, tačiau visdėlto iki tvarkos dar toli gražu.


Verslo pasaulyje sienos neegzistuoja. Visur taip, kur rinkoja žaidžia stambūs mažmenininkai. Prie ko tas užsienis? :dunno: Dėl kooperavimosi, tai čia, jei neklystu, pažeidžiamas kartelio įstatymas. Už tai baudžiama


Už rinkos monopolizavimą, mokeščių nemokėjimą ir t.t. ir t.t. irgi pagal įdėją baudžiamą, tačiau kažkodėl dar neteko to pamatyti.


Taip, bet jie pirma pažiūri, kas jiems pigiau atsieina.

Aha užtai mes ir valgom neaiškios kokybės maistą.

[Mantas]

Statistika yra nerenkamas o perkamas daiktas Lietuvoje. Tereikia žinoti kam saldainį į kišenę įdėti.


Nagi nagi, gal gali pateikt STD kainyną? Kažkaip nemanau, jog apsimoka mokėt pingius tik dėl akių.

Veiklos rūšis nėra nuostolinga. Tiesiog didelę dalį pelno pasiima prekybos tinklai.
Tai neišvengiama, produkciją parduoti reikia

Čia irgi nedidelė bėda, VMVT tikrina produktų kokybę, tačiau tokios kontrolės kokia yra niekam neužtenka. PAtikėk nenorėtum pamatyti sandėlių kur laikomos prekės. Iš esmės didžiausia kontrolė tai yra pasienis, ten paprastai iš kiekvienos importuojamos naujos siuntos paimami mėginiai, tačiau deja ir ten yra LABAI didelė korupcija. Todėl pas mus importuoja pakankamai visokio sh.
O ar pats matei tuos sandėlius? Korupcija nėra viešas dalykas, tad jei sakai, tai geriau jau tiksliai žinotum, kaip yra.


Už rinkos monopolizavimą, mokeščių nemokėjimą ir t.t. ir t.t. irgi pagal įdėją baudžiamą, tačiau kažkodėl dar neteko to pamatyti.

Už monopolizavimą nėra baudžiama, juk įmonės augimo nesustabdysi. Kita kalba, jei įmonės nori susijungt ir sudaryt monopolį

ir be to principu "jis pažeidžia įstatymus, tai ir aš galiu pažeist" normaliam pasauly neegzsistuoja, turi būt baudžiama viskas, kas išaiškinama ir įrodoma.

Aha užtai mes ir valgom neaiškios kokybės maistą.
Per 15 metų pamenu tik vieną atvejį su latviškais sūreliais "Karums", kai nuo jų vaikai užsikrėtė kažkuom.

O pats Lietuvoje vartojamu maistu esu patenkintas ;)

[LatvianGG]

........monopolijas...................
.............
............monopolijas...................
..................VPM..............
..........produkcija...........
....................
......................súrelius "Karums"........ :D:D:D

[blimey]

Siulau istrinti visa sita sh kur lietuviskai parasytas. Buvo idomi diskusija iki to.

[Mantas]

Pasiūlyk būdą, kaip tai mums padaryt. Geriau pasiūlyk "Švedui" ;)

[blimey]

Svedas yra hipelis pacifistas kurio as nepernesu ir su kuriuo nenoriu tureti nieko bendro.

[_keen_]

Sutinku su logiska Manto nuomone, nesutinku su visaneigiancia Geex nuomone...

[jimm]

Čia ne vien VPM tą daro, čia visi prekybos centrai taip elgiasi: "Norfa", "RIMI"."Iki". Bene labiausiai tai daro IKI: ir išnaudoja žmones, ir ižūliai elgiasi su tiekėjais. Apie "Karums" atvėji. ten nebuvo jokių mikrobu tik berods ??? (ar kaip ten, kuri sūrelius panašaus tipo gamina, tikriausiai matėt ir ragavot, tikras Latviškas analogas) padarė visa tai (juodos technologijos ir tiek), bet visa tai pakenkė Latviams. Ir be to ima užknisti prekių iš Kinijos gausa, visur "Made in China" :down: . Tuoj bus kaip JAV - praktiškai viskas pagaminta iš ten.

[Gatis]

Regarding "Karums" - that was good way by VP Market to "pacify" "Rigas piensaimnieks" who wanted to get out some profit from this product also in Lithuania (after all - Lithuanian enterprises are getting some profit in Latvia?). So... one day state certified (!) Lithuanian laboratory finds bad microfauna in this product. This is announced loud in local mass-media and, of course, the purchase of this product falls sharply. Later this announcement is silently revoked - nobody finds anything bad there. "Rigas piensaimnieks" wants to start court case but is warned that similar actions may continue... they are warned by Lithuanian state authorities. As a result - "Karums" now is sold in Lithuania but nearly no profit from this product goes to Latvia.

[blimey]

Yeah, Gatis knows much better whether the Karums had bacteria or not than the "state certified" Lithuanian laboratory. I bet he participated in the investigation himself! After all, VP Market is just a Lithuanian mafia gang that works against the Latvians and the Latvian state.

[LatvianGG]

How old r u Blimey and what is your education?

[blimey]

Its none of your business. My post was just reaction to all those continuous Gatis's tittle-tattle statements regarding VPM's actions that were obviously simply made up. If you want to enter this discussion, enter it with facts and not with all this name-calling and irrelevant questions.

[LatvianGG]

LOL :bash: (this still is a friendly bash)

[John]

@LatvianGG

instead of your friendly laugh could you better provide at least some arguments why you think blimey is wrong? For now you just asked his age and education, then start laughing... Is that what a highly educated and mature person should do when asked to base his opinion on something or provide some arguments?

[LatvianGG]

@LatvianGG

instead of your friendly laugh could you better provide at least some arguments why you think blimey is wrong? For now you just asked his age and education, then start laughing... Is that what a highly educated and mature person should do when asked to base his opinion on something or provide some arguments?

I laugh because a lot of you here take it too serious. I don't really care whether VP did something with this bacteria thing or no so I didn't want to participate in this discussion at all! I just remeber Blimey has been quite "bright" in the past as well in his replies pointed against criticism to lithuanians so I was wondering what age is he ;)

[John]

I didn't notice anything what was taken too seriously here, it's cool as people are discussing things but it's better to do this using some base instead of taking things out of nowhere and inventing some conspiracy theories (I mean the VP Market and Karums thing) like one forumer from other European sub-forum likes to do and accuse others for being anti this and anti that or just accuse the whole world creating a conspiracy against glorious motherland (I think you know which forumer I mean) ;)

[blimey]

@LatvianGG: if you want to find things about me, youre free to ask in private. This is quite a serious discussion regarding serious matters and there's no place for all these childish questions and "laughter". If you accuse VPM of corruption, which is a serious accusation, you better have something to back it up with and i dont think that irrelevant questions and laughter [or in gatis's case - silence] are good enough to do it.


Anyway, I take it this argument is over, then?

[LatvianGG]

@LatvianGG: if you want to find things about me, youre free to ask in private. This is quite a serious discussion regarding serious matters and there's no place for all these childish questions and "laughter". If you accuse VPM of corruption, which is a serious accusation, you better have something to back it up with and i dont think that irrelevant questions and laughter [or in gatis's case - silence] are good enough to do it.


Anyway, I take it this argument is over, then?

Well from my side it never even was started. As I said, I don't care about this, I am not accusing anyone nore defending Gatis' theory. Bash and LOL was for your hard and serious reply.

[Tomas]

For what it worth: I consume "Karums" products regulary and never had problems with my health :eat:

[vytauc]

For what it worth: I consume "Karums" products regulary and never had problems with my health :eat:

Me to :)
There're some Latvian products I regulary consume: Karums (with hazelnuts); Laima (Selga); and Cido juices. And I usualy buy them in Maxima:)

As for "expertises" and other stuff- it's just business. We can remember a hysteria about Lithuanian pork in Latvia, Latvian construction company in Sweden and Lithuanian pharmacies in Poland. It's just one more way to protect your market or producers. Not the "cleanest" way, but pretty effective ;)

[Gatis]

Yeah, the treatment of Lithuanian pork was not the best way either.
For a while there is silence in this front between theBaltic states. Sooner or later something should happen again, I think. And mass-media in each country then behaves rather bad, turning the scandal even bigger.

Should get some more info about VP Market construction projects otherwise this thread turns into something else.
Btw. somehow over the last months I am getting the feeling that VP Market is not planning to move the head office to Riga. Nothing concrete, just the project is going too slow and latest press conferences do not tell anything about this idea. Who knows?

[Edd]

Btw. somehow over the last months I am getting the feeling that VP Market is not planning to move the head office to Riga. Nothing concrete, just the project is going too slow and latest press conferences do not tell anything about this idea. Who knows?
I think that you are wrong - they probably just do not want too much of publicity.

[vytauc]

And mass-media in each country then behaves rather bad, turning the scandal even bigger.


It often semes more like an "ass-media"...;)

[Gatis]

According to Riga City Webpage - today the Building Board of Riga City Council is reviewing the proposal of "Akropole Ltd." for construction of complex of entertainment, trade and office space on 7 land plots on Daugavgrivas Str. I think this is the same VP Market project. We'll see in some days - how it goes.