A Question . . .

I was just about to start an item on the PUBS Thread, about some pubs I used to visit years ago that are no longer with us, when I thought - The Pubs thread is great for all the current chat and news about what's going on NOW, but sometimes peoples memories can get a bit lost on there.

So I thought, what about a "Pubs of the Past" thread??

It works well with the RETAIL thread . . . there is now also the separate Retail Memories thread.

How about the same for PUBS - what do people think?


Great idea NH - go for it, I assume this also refers to pubs which have changed their names, i.e. pub still there but under a different name (heinous as that is!)
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Yes Steve, any aspect of "Pubs of the Past" that you like! Stupidly re-named pubs are a great annoyance to me too.

So, here is the new thread, started on 30th April 2012, but a fair number of posts from before that date have initially been pulled into the thread - so there's already a bit of a backdated story about our old pubs in here!

Even this "opening post" has been backdated!!

SO, lets kick off with a trip back to that mythical pub from the 1970s, The Geordie Pride . . .

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Welcome to the . . .
GEORDIE PRIDE . . for a pint and a bite to eat, at AMAZING PRICES!

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/GeordiePride1978.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/GeordiePride1979.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/GeordiePride-1.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/GeordiePride1977.jpg


It was a MASSIVE place, stretching the entire length of the new building, in the basement, with entrances in Grainger Street and Neville Street . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/GeordiePride.jpg

It was also made up of a large number of different styled areas, or 'rooms', one of which was actually made up (at least in part) from actual artefacts from the old Douglas Hotel, and was called the 'Douglas Vaults'. PHOTOS of this area, are below . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/GeordiePride1976.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/GeordiePride19762.jpg

and here is the quite recognisable (from the above re-make) ORIGINAL "Back Douglas" bar of the old Douglas Hotel itself . . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/DouglasHotel-TheBackDouglasBar.jpg


Now, the "Geordie Pride" was not a copy of the pre-existing place in the Piccadilly Circus area of Central London (at the time) called The Cockney Pride but it was definitely designed as a sort of 'rival' to it. Partially as a result of this, the place eventually became dogged by (often) 'football related' fighting!! The book "Heady Days, a History of Newcastle's Public Houses" describes the Geordie Prides relatively short life . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/GeordiePrideHeadyDaysbyBrianBenniso.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/GeordiePrideHeadyDaysbyBrianBenn-1.jpg

Advertisement in the 'Sunday Sun', on February 29th 1976 . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/GeordiePrideSundaySunFeb29th1976.jpg


So, there you have it . . THE GEORDIE PRIDE!

When it opened in the early 70s, at the same time a 'small' upstairs pub opened, called "The Green Dolphin". It is now still a pub in 2009, currently called The Head of Steam.

That upstairs bar was a separate place, but the 'big attraction' was the entire basement . . . filled by the (then) very famous and huge 'Geordie Pride'. The Geordie Pride, whose fame does not seem to have survived all that much longer than the place itself!!


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now that is cool.

the head of steam has an underground section for live music, in fact the layout looks the same as the photo with the guy at the bar, albeit everything stripped back. it's quite small though.

now that is cool.

the head of steam has an underground section for live music, in fact the layout looks the same as the photo with the guy at the bar, albeit everything stripped back. it's quite small though.

Perhaps the Green Dolphin, when it bacame the Head of Steam, took over a small discrete area of the former Geordie Pride?

But the beer selection, NH, the beer! it's enough to turn a chap TT. Still, I could go with a few hot pork baps, followed by a Collier's Grill and a Grey's Monument (a dish that ought to be resurrected).

In those days I used to love 'Ex' and 'Scotch', mostly, though Scotch isn't shown on the price list, it is in one of the photos (or, is it what is called "70/-" perhaps, can't remember). Anyway, it was certainly sold there.

I did not got go to the Geordie Pride as much as I did the Portland and the Burton House (with an occasional visit to the Trent or the Telegraph) in those days.

Oh, and also the Lonsdale, the Haymarket, the Midland, the Forth and the original version of the Bacchus on High Bridge.

Hmmm, no wonder I don't remember much about those days!!


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Brilliant photo's NH

Am i right in assuming that the building to the left (in the first photo) is roughly where the Newcastle Building Society is????

Yes, that building is exactly where you say it is (was) and that very building just happened to (eventually) become MY "in-town Local" pub, for most of the 1980s, called THE BURTON HOUSE. It was next to the Newcastle BBC building (until they moved to the 'Pink Palace' at Spital Tongues/Fenham Barracks, where they are now). The BBC building was built in 1825, by Dobson who designed it as a 'lying in' Hospital, which it was for many years until the BBC took it over. The Lying In Hospital was a charitable provision for married women. It catered for the latter stages of pregnancy and childbirth.

I think I spent more time in the Burton House there (through the 1980s, along with The Portland next door) than I spent at home!

I had a lot of good friends in there, including the bar staff and managers, one of whom was the Bill Mitchell I mentioned on the DIVERSION thread, who gave me my two missing copies of Diversion!

Here are some photos (to compare with the one you are referring to) showing The Burton House (and also the Portland) in relation to the BBC building.


The Burton House building, at roughly the same angle as the photo you refer to (it has "Newcastle Ales" written on the side) with (also) The Portland in the foreground next to the BSM building . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/1966PortlandBurtonHouse.jpg


Looking from the 'other angle', the Burton House buildings are on the right, the Portland on the left, and the BBC building in the middle. Note, the Portland has now had its top floor "chopped off" (it was in a dangerously delapidated state!) . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/PortlandandBurtonHouse-in1982.jpg


The new 'Newcastle Building Society' buildings now surround the former-BBC building. NOTE, this photo was taken before the BLUE CARPET was built (or should we say, LAID?) . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/ALLGONEbutbeforeTheBlueCarpet-in200.jpg

thanks for those photos which are the best ive seen of these pubs despite having a lot of books on the subject.they were a loss to the city centre and show how you cant just create character and heritage (which they had in spades) with poor substitutes like old orleans et al. i spent many an hour on the portlands bar billiard table which are a rarity these days.

thanks for those photos which are the best ive seen of these pubs despite having a lot of books on the subject.they were a loss to the city centre and show how you cant just create character and heritage (which they had in spades) with poor substitutes like old orleans et al. i spent many an hour on the portlands bar billiard table which are a rarity these days.

For me, at the Portland, in the far top left corner cubicle-area, it was the "pinball machine" . . particularly the 'Gogar' one that was there for what seemed like years. Thats where we all used to meet and congregate!

"half past five at the Portland" !!!!!!!!

Is that opposite Nexus house?

glad you brought that site up Chris, as we can also discuss it in this thread. the site was planned for an eight storey apartment block and i think has pp for this. atm it remains an empty plot bordered in by security fencing, after the previous pub The Carlisle (which had itself been closed for decades) was knocked down. i'm sure NH or Maxtoon et al will have some more info on the old pub.

the latest news was that the site failed to sell in auction in London after the previous owners Kingsway pulled out so looks dead in the water until someone purchases the site.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/nebusiness/nov2007/5/1/8ACAC17E-C7B0-F01D-17C2F9F7DD8B6765.jpg

The actual 'latest' information that I have on this development, is the below article from the Journal of 28th November 2007. This is quite some time ago now, and despite the headline, I can confirm that the site was NOT sold at that auction, as Johnny also says in his post. What has happened since then, I am not aware.

The newspaper article is quite useful though, as it gives a bit of background/photos of the old 'Carlisle Hotel', and of the proposed development . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/CarlislePub.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/CarlislePub001.jpg

here's a pic from the council photostream:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3501/4078619962_c96250b198_o.jpg

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Now, my favourite subject! What do these five City Centre Bars, from the 1980s, have in common?

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/51980sCityCentreBars.jpg

No idea but I hate the Vault post refurbishment!

No idea but I hate the Vault post refurbishment!

Yes, the City Vaults were very different in the 1980s, you went down an open alleyway from the Bigg Market, and entered a door on the right and went down to the basement.

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Now, my favourite subject! What do these five City Centre Bars, from the 1980s, have in common?

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/51980sCityCentreBars.jpg

Oh think it was Robertson.

Yes, Toonlad and Graham56, that particular group of bars, for a while, constituted the ever-changing 'Joe Robertson empire'.

While not my favourite type of bar, the people I was spending time with in part of the 80s used to go there a lot, and we had some good nights (and days!) in them all!

Yes, the City Vaults were very different in the 1980s, you went down an open alleyway from the Bigg Market, and entered a door on the right and went down to the basement.

I remember that, in fact you could walk through to St Johns Street opposite Rosemary Lane. My friends and i often visited the Bangladesh restaurant and Sloanes snooker hall both down on the left hand side of the lane.Good memorys!
Was the City Vaults originally the Royal Court Grill or am i getting mixed up with somewhere else?

I remember that, in fact you could walk through to St Johns Street opposite Rosemary Lane. My friends and i often visited the Bangladesh restaurant and Sloanes snooker hall both down on the left hand side of the lane.Good memorys!
Was the City Vaults originally the Royal Court Grill or am i getting mixed up with somewhere else?

Here is the view of that lane ('City Vaults Lane', I think it was called).

In this 1980s photo, looking back 'up' towards Bigg Market, the City Vaults doorway can be seen on the left, with 'Brahms & Liszt' on the right.

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/CityVaultsLane.jpg

Here is the view of that lane ('City Vaults Lane', I think it was called).

In this 1980s photo, looking back 'up' towards Bigg Market, the City Vaults doorway can be seen on the left, with 'Brahms & Liszt' on the right.

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/CityVaultsLane.jpg

That must be later than when i frequented the area, no lampposts or hanging baskets then.In fact the place was a bit of a dive and pretty sure you could get a car/van so far down and then a gate meant pedestrian access only through to St Johns St.

It is interesting to see how the now very "isolated" Balmoral used to look when it was in a civilised place all surrounded by normal housing streets back in the 1960s. This excellent photo was posted by hollow man recently, on the "Historic" thread . .

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2719/4090280485_3fa9890422_o.jpg

Former Balmoral Pub - now Ryokan Hotel, Westgate Road - photo's taken on 18th January

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5678/dsc01572wb.jpg

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7562/dsc01578qg.jpg

It is interesting to see how the now very "isolated" Balmoral used to look when it was in a civilised place all surrounded by normal housing streets back in the 1960s. This excellent photo was posted by hollow man recently, on the "Historic" thread . .

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2719/4090280485_3fa9890422_o.jpg

Heres one of the Queens Arms opposite the Balmoral...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2739/4080073880_db3ca25352_o.jpg

Here's what the Balmoral area looks like now:
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5259/balmoral.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/balmoral.jpg/)

Here's what the Balmoral area looks like now:


See also 'Post 69' of this thread (LINK below) which actually started this discussion with its info about and photos of the Balmoral as it is now . . . so we then "looked back" to the Balmoral as it was!!

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=50348211&postcount=69








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Royal George Public House, Brunton Park.

The Royal George is now just a 'memory'. I took this photo of the Care Home being built on the site last week, from exactly the same spot as the two photos of the Royal George (later on in this post) were taken from.

It appears that the new Care Home is nearly finished . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/25thFebruary2010024.jpg

There were over 600 objections to this demolition and development, but it made no difference whatsoever.


Below is a photo of the Royal George, from the Journal a while back . .

Wave of protests at bid to bulldoze pub
Oct 1 2008 by Tony Henderson, The Journal

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/nejournal/oct2008/2/6/B7ED9E05-B589-D7C0-2E8D706AECC8D4F8.jpg

Plans to demolish a Newcastle pub have been met with a wave of protest.

Hadrian Healthcare wants to build a 46-bedroom residential care home on the site of the Royal George in Brunton Park, Newcastle, just north of Gosforth.

More than 530 letters of objection have been lodged, together with a protest petition of 399 signatures.

The bid goes before city councillors on Friday.

Objections include:

The pub is a focal point for the estate and a community asset

The proposed building is more than three times the size of the existing pub building

The plans will harm the viability of the local centre of which the pub is part and which features a shopping parade, community centre, church and clinic.

All three ward councillors have protested against the proposal.

Council leader and ward member John Shipley has objected to the plans, saying that the proposed building is too large for the site and encroaches too closely on neighbouring houses. He also fears the scheme will have a negative impact on the local centre and that the Royal George has been a fundamental part of Brunton Park’s facilities since the estate was built.

Two other ward councillors have also objected. Coun Diane Packham does not consider that there is a demand for further residential care in Gosforth and the proposal does not support council policy to keep older people independent at home for as long as possible.

She also says that the Royal George is an essential element of the local centre.

Coun David Down claims that the proposal would be out of character with the area and that it would be overbearing and intrusive on neighbouring properties.

North Gosforth Parish Council has objected to the proposal due to the loss of a valuable community asset that provides a facility for residents to meet and that the loss of the pub may cause drink-driving.

The pub closed in early August.

Planners say although there have been substantial objections to the loss of the pub, they think that refusal of the proposal on these grounds could not be sustained.

However, they consider the scale and form of the development would have an unacceptable impact on nearby homes.

The proposal, at almost three times the size of the existing building, is considered to be an overdevelopment of the site, and planners are advising that the scheme should be rejected.


Another photo of the Royal George, as it once was . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/BruntonPark1966.jpg

I live in North Gosforth near Asda and had a walk up through Brunton Park and The Great Park the other night, until then I didn't realise the pub had gone. What an absolute disgrace it is too. Just as they're building a whole new community there it loses one of it's only community facilities.

Have to say I was very dissapointed with the quality of the great park too. About 2 years since I was last up there very little progress has been made. Pavements and curbs are sinking and collapsing and drains have cones on them to stop people getting injured. Cars are parked absolutely everywhere and over everything, there's no access between the great park and brunton park for the new residents to use the shops (or the former pub) easily. Lights don't work, there's no shops of any sort that I can see, only one way in and out, and mud everywhere.

I'm just glad I didn't pay the £200k for a tiny house they were asking there.

Can anyone tell me where The Adelaide is/was please? the building looks really familiar. The photo below is from same Flikr stream and is dated 1985.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2677/4089113602_c393bdb498.jpg

The Adelaide pub had two entrances, the one shown was on Newgate St, just up from the junction with Clayton St. The other entrance was on Clayton St next to "The Clock" -Duke of Northumberland PH.


Fab, thank you Graham. That would make the building on the right, what is now "Cafe Nero" and the pub and everything to the left is now gone and part of Eldon Square.


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Fab, thank you Graham. That would make the building on the right, what is now "Cafe Nero" and the pub and everything to the left is now gone and part of Eldon Square?

Yep, that`s right.

HISTORICAL PUBS of the PAST . . .

These photos of 150 Scottish & Newcastle Inns (from the late 70s/early 80s) have already been shown on the Newcastle Pubs thread, but I know that many people who visit THIS thread on Historic Newcastle do not necessarily ever visit the Pubs one!

So, I though they could be repeated on here, for those who have not seen them before.

In short, in the 1970s and 1980s Scottish & Newcastle Inns used to fix labels, showing photos of all their pubs, to each and every "box of matches" that they sold in their pubs.

Does anyone remember them?

A friend of mine was an 'Area Manager' (or something!) for S&N in those days, and he (knowing of my habit for collecting such things on Newcastle) gave me this full "proof set" of all 150 pub matchbox labels!

I am sure they are quite rare, so here is a trip down memory lane, followed by a few bits of Newcastle Brown Ale memorabilia, also . . .


Scottish & Newcastle Inns.
Matchbox Labels, Sheet 1.


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/ScottishNewcastleInns.jpg

01 – BEEHIVE
Mile End Road, South Shields.

02 – SCROGG INN
125 Scrogg Road, Walker, Newcastle, NE6.

03 – BEACON
Beacon Lough, Gateshead.

04 – ROSE & CROWN
491/493 Prince Edward Road, South Shields.

05 – BROADWAY
Broadway, North Shields.

06 – FALCON
Hilda Park Estate, Chester le Street.

07 – GREY HEN
141 Temple Park Road, South Shields.

08 – BLACK SWAN
Shields Road, Morpeth.

09 – HAMILTON RUSSELL ARMS
Thorpe Thewles, Stockton.

10 – SEVEN STARS
27 High Street, Wrekenton.

11 – JOHN GILPIN
Burnside, West Denton, Newcastle, NE5.

12 – FOUNTAIN
116 Highfield Road, South Shields.

13 – KELLY
Hedgeley Road, Hebburn.

14 – ROBIN HOOD
Murton Village, Newcastle NE27.

15 – BEDLINGTON TERRIER
Stead Lane, Bedlington.

16 – SOUTHERN CROSS
Dixons Bank, Marton in Cleveland, Middlesbrough.

17 – DUKE OF EDINBURGH
6 Moor Street, Newcastle, NE4.

18 – HONEST BOY
Blackfell Village Centre, Blackfell, Washington.

19 – JOHNNY MILLER
774 Durham Road, Low Fell.

20 – DOCTOR SYNTAX
New Ridley, Stocksfield.

21 – THREE MILE INN
Great North Road, Gosforth, Newcastle NE3.

22 – GREY HORSE
Mill Lane, Whitburn, Sunderland.

23 – CAULD LAD
Caithness Road, Hylton Castle Estate, Sunderland.

24 – THE SHIP
147 Sunderland Road, Harton, South Shields.

25 – COLLINGWOOD ARMS
2 Front Street, Chirton, North Shields.


Scottish & Newcastle Inns.
Matchbox Labels, Sheet 2.


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/ScottishNewcastleInns001.jpg

26 – CORNER HOUSE
Heaton Road, Heaton, Newcastle, NE6.

27 – TURBINIA
Fossway, Walker, Newcastle, NE6.

28 – MUSKETEER
Great Lime Road, Forest Hall, Newcastle, NE12.

29 – KINGS ARMS
Seaton Sluice, Tyne & Wear.

30 – COUNTY HOTEL
Aycliffe, Darlington.

31 – FARMERS REST
Haymarket, Newcastle, NE1.

32 – WAVENDON
Wavendon Crescent, Sunderland.

33 – THE CLIFF
Mere Knolls Road, Sunderland.

34 – SEA HORSE
Plessey Road, Blyth.

35 – RED LION
Plawsworth, Chester le Street.

36 – HONEYSUCKLE
92 Coatsworth Road, Gateshead.

37 – BAY HORSE
Front Street, Whickham.

38 – BARLEY MOW
East Street, Gateshead.

39 – BALLOON
Silver Lonnen, Fenham, Newcastle, NE5.

40 – NEW CROWN HOTEL
Mowbray Road, South Shields.

41 – FOX & HOUNDS
West Road, Newcastle, NE5.

42 – MARINERS
Mortimer Road, South Shields.

43 – HUNTSMAN
Loup Farm, Blaydon Bank, Tyne & Wear.

44 – CAVALIER
Silksworth Close, Sunderland.

45 – SHERATON
Hardwick Road, Stockton.

46 – MARINE
230/232 Ocean Road, South Shields.

47 – RAILWAY TAVERN
Station Road, Cramlington.

48 – BRIGANTINE
Ferry Street, South Shields.

49 – NORWOOD
Malvern Gardens, Lobley Hill, Gateshead.

50 – ASTRONAUT
Town Centre, West Precinct, Billingham.


Scottish & Newcastle Inns.
Matchbox Labels, Sheet 3.


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/ScottishNewcastleInns-3.jpg

51 – PORTLAND ARMS
Station Road, Ashington.

52 – ASHBROOKE
Stannington Grove, Sunderland.

53 – STATION HOTEL
42 Mile End Road, South Shields

54 – SPITAL HOUSE
Spital Tongues, Newcastle, NE2.

55 – HEARTS OF OAK
Medway Close, Peterlee.

56 – GREY HORSE
Bertram Place, Shiremoor.

57 – MOORCOCK
Burnhope Way, Peterlee.

58 – LORD GORT
Gort Place, Durham.

59 – NINEPINS
Saltwell Road, Low Fell.

60 – SIR COLIN CAMPBELL
3 Sackville Street West, North Shields.

61 – COBLE INN
7 Bridge Street, Newbiggin.

62 – RED DUSTER
Whiteleas Estate, South Shields.

63 – WATERMILL
Rectory Road East, Felling.

64 – HARROGATE HOUSE
27 Gosforth Street, Newcastle, NE2.

65 – ROYALTY
88 Chester Road, Sunderland.

66 – NORMAN CONQUEST
Flatts Lane, Eston, Middlesbrough.

67 – BLACK BULL
Lingey Lane, Wardley.

68 – BOLDON LAD
Hedworth Lane, Jarrow.

69 – FUSILIER
Clydesdale Avenue, Forest Hall, Newcastle, NE12.

70 – BEEHIVE
1 Holmside, Sunderland.

71 – OLDE CROSS
Narrowgate, Alnwick.

72 – WHITE HOUSE
83 Hendon Road, Sunderland.

73 – GRANGE FOUNDRY
Kepier Crescent, Gilesgate Moor, Co. Durham.

74 – WOODMANS ARMS
Whickham Park, Whickham.

75 – KINGS HEAD
Station Road, Lanchester, Co. Durham.


Scottish & Newcastle Inns.
Matchbox Labels, Sheet 4.


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/SNPubs-4001-1.jpg


76 – DORSET ARMS
Dorset Avenue, Wallsend.

77 – ROSE & CROWN
North Street, Winlaton.

78 – SATELLITE
Henderson Road, South Shields.

79 – UPPER DECK
33 Walworth Way, Sunderland.

80 – COLLINGWOOD ARMS
Brandling Village, Jesmond, Newcastle, NE2.

81 – MAURETANIA
Denbigh Avenue, High Howden, Wallsend.

82 – THE DOCK
Tyne Dock, South Shields.

83 – MARKET TAVERN
27 Market Place, Durham City.

84 – MARSDEN INN
Redwell Lane, South Shields.

85 – THE NELSON
Church Walk, Walker, Newcastle, NE6.

86 – MASONS ARMS
Dinnington, Newcastle, NE13.

87 – THREE FEATHERS
Easdale Gardens, Lyndhurst Estate, Low Fell.

88 – CENTURION
The Causeway, Throckley, Newcastle, NE15.

89 – ROYAL ARCHER
Archbold Terrace, Jesmond, Newcastle, NE2.

90 – CHIEFTAN
Cruddas Park, Newcastle, NE4.

91 – HOTSPUR
103 Percy Street, Newcastle, NE1.

92 – GEORGE & DRAGON
Old Eldon Square & Bus Concourse, Newcastle, NE1.

93 – ADELPHI
20 Shakespeare Street, Newcastle, NE1.

94 – THE GLOUCESTER
High Street West, Gateshead.

95 – OTTURBURN TOWER HOTEL
Otterburn, Northumberland.

96 – NORTHUMBERLAND ARMS
Prudhoe Chare, Eldon Square, Newcastle, NE1.

97 – COXLODGE
317 Kenton Road, Kenton, Newcastle, NE3.

98 – THE PORTLAND
60 New Bridge Street, Newcastle, NE1.

99 – CITY TAVERN
Northumberland Road, Newcastle, NE1.

100 – COFFY JOHNNY
11 Groat Market, Newcastle, NE1.


Scottish & Newcastle Inns.
Matchbox Labels, Sheet 5.


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/ScottishNewcastleInns-5jpg.jpg

101 – BOARD INN
Stella, Blaydon, Tyne & Wear.

102 – JOLLY FARMERS
Thornaby Road, Thornaby, Stockton on Tees.

103 – NORTH STAR
Charnwood Avenue, Longbenton, Newcastle, NE12.

104 – PACK HORSE
Crookgate, Burnopfield.

105 – WHEATSHEAF HOTEL
Callerton Lane Ends, Woolsington, Newcastle, NE13.

106 – YORKSHIRE DRAGOON
High Lane, Maltby in Cleveland.

107 – FOX INN
10 Bow Street, Guisborough.

108 – NEW TAVERN
Springfield, Stokesley.

109 – PLOUGH
369 Old Durham Road, Deckham, Gateshead.

110 – SWAN
Heddon on the Wall, Newcastle, NE15.

111 – LOCHSIDE
Red Hall Drive, Benton, Newcastle, NE7.

112 – CLEVELAND BAY
Ings Road, Redcar.

113 – RYTON HOTEL
Ryton, Tyne & Wear.

114 – EAGLE
Glynfillis, Leam Lane Estate, Felling.

115 – DUKE OF WELLINGTON
Kenton Lane, Kenton, Newcastle, NE3.

116 – HARDWICK ARMS
North End, Sedgefield.

117 – NEW MILL
Chesterton Road, South Shields.

118 – IMPERIAL VAULTS
1 Lambton Street, Sunderland.

119 – LAMBTON ARMS
Front Street, Chester Le Street.

120 – JUBILEE
Jubilee Road, Gosforth, Newcastle, NE3.

121 – HIGHLANDER
Front Street, Swalwell.

122 – FOXHUNTERS
Prestongate, North Shields.

123 – BORDER TERRIER
Hartington Road, Marden Estate, North Shields.

124 – PRINCE OF WALES
Calf Close Lane, Jarrow.

125 – THE BULL
Chillingham Terrace, Jarrow.


Scottish & Newcastle Inns.
Matchbox Labels, Sheet 6.


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/SNPubMatchboxLabels126-150001.jpg

126 – GENERAL HAVELOCK
Chapter Row, South Shields.

127 – WHEATSHEAF
254 Yarm Road, Darlington.

128 – GEORGE 1V
92 High St, Eston, Middlesbrough.

129 – MERLIN
Marsh House Avenue, Billingham.

130 – NOOK
Sunderland Road, Harton, South Shields.

131 – GUNNER
Trevor Place, North Shields.

132 – RAVENSWORTH ARMS
Lamesley, Gateshead.

133 – TELSTAR
Marsh Avenue, Low Grange Estate, Billingham.

134 – MILL TAVERN
Mill Lane, Hebburn.

135 – NORTHUMBERLAND HUSSAR
Sackville Road, Heaton, Newcastle, NE6.

136 – SPRING GARDENS
Spence Terrace, North Shields.

137 – SALUTATION
5 West Road, Billingham.

138 – SHIP INN
High St, Marske by the sea, Redcar.

139 – SPREAD EAGLE
Preston, North Shields.

140 – SHAKESPEARE
Split Crow Road, Gateshead.

141 – NAUTILUS
Verne Road, North Shields.

142 – BLACK DIAMOND
Delves Lane, Consett.

143 – RED HOUSE
Brierley Road, Cowpen, Blyth.

144 – RABY HOTEL
192 Shields Road, Byker, Newcastle, NE6.

145 – VICTORIA GARDENS
Ryhope Road, Sunderland.

146 – THE AVENUE
Park Avenue, Whitley Bay.

147 – QUEENS HEAD
Guidepost, Choppington.

148 – BEAUMONT
Park Lane, Shiremoor.

149 – CROSS KEYS
Upsall, Guisborough, Cleveland.

150 – BUGLE
Meresyde, Leam Lane Estate, Felling.


SO, THATS IT - ALL 150 OF THEM!!

Did anyone find a "long lost" LOCAL PUB, amongst them?


NOW . . .

Here is a little bit of information about the history of (at least, up until 1983 when it was written) the "Scottish & Newcastle Inns" public houses, featured in the above 150 photos . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/SNInn-keeping.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/SNInn-keeping001.jpg


AND FINALLY . . .

Here are a few bits of historical information, that you may not know, about the 'one and only' NEWCASTLE BROWN ALE . . .


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/ThingsyoumaynotknowaboutNewcBrown19.jpg


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/BrownAletojustBROWN.jpg

Some 'amazing' prices here!

This is a 1972 "S&N Price List" as sent to pubs, etc, containing Recommended Bar Prices . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/April1972SNPriceList.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/April1972SNPriceList2.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/April1972SNPriceList3.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/April1972SNPriceList1.jpg

Wow! Amazing how cheap beer was back then but the prices hadn`t changed much when i started drinking in 1974.Oh, and N/cle Starbrite beer, what a heap of shite that was, along with Tartan Bitter. I was partial to the 80/- myself, now that was a decent pint.
A barrel ( 36 gallon/288 pts) of 80/- for less than £27.

^^ I remember when I was 18 a few mates and me had a plan to get a barrell of beer as someone had an old tap lying around. Needless to say when we found out it was about 250 pints... we thought better of it.

What was the church with the spire shown on the lower photo, NH?


It was the 'Central Methodist Church' on Northumberland Road (Left hand side heading away from Northumberland Street) it has been replaced by the brick office block that is in between Tilley's/City Tavern/Stepps/Huxters/City Tavern again/Shamrox/LYH/whatever it is called this week, and Pacific Bar Cafe.

Here is a photo of it . .

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2711/4078194015_e13588eb56_o.jpg


and an earlier photo showing the spire. This one is earlier than even when "whatever it is called this week" was called the City Tavern!!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2607/4075872715_3329a936d5_o.jpg

I have another old-Jesmond question. Can anyone on here help, please?

I believe there was a small pub or inn along Jesmond Dene Road which has now long gone. I'll guess it was probably operating 1850-1910. But I've forgotten its name and exactly where it was.

It was on a road just off Jes Dene Rd, it faced north, was constructed as a single storey, pitched roof cottage with central doorway, whitewashed with the name on the east-facing gable end. The side road might have been the stub end of Reid Park Road (which leads to the footpath to St Mary's Well the Manor House and becomes The Grove), or it may have been near (the long demolished) Stote's Hall and the entrance into Collingwood Terrace.

I recall a picture of this pub in one of the series of "Bygone" brochures published by City Libraries which I've mislaid and which isn't in the current series. I don't know if that was from an old photograph, drawing or painting.
And I have a hunch that the word "rose" or "bird" appeared in its name.

Anyone know what it was called, what years it traded and where it was, please? Its been irritating me for some time that I've forgotten the detail.

^^
I think this is the place you are looking for.

I used to live nearby, and I remember passing that stone wall at the bottom of Reid Park Road, daily, on my way across the Dene to Manor Park School.

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/ReidParkRoad-OldInn.jpg
From - Bygone Jesmond, 1987 edition.

^^
I think this is the place you are looking for.

From - Bygone Jesmond, 1987 edition.
IT IS ! !
Thank you!

The "Apple Tree Inn", yes, that's exactly what I wanted to know, and that's exactly the image I remember having seen.
Much appreciated!

^^
I think this is the place you are looking for. I used to live nearby, and I remember passing that stone wall at the bottom of Reid Park Road, daily, on my way across the Dene to Manor Park School.

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/ReidParkRoad-OldInn.jpg
From - Bygone Jesmond, 1987 edition.


IT IS ! !
Thank you! The "Apple Tree Inn", yes, that's exactly what I wanted to know, and exactly the image I remember having seen. Much appreciated!


That WALL is indeed still there. Photo taken 27th May 2010 . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/27thMay20104.jpg
The wall, from exactly the same angle, is much more overgrown, but its 'shape' can still be seen. The pillars and gates are still there, just to the right of my photo. I thought they were 'in shot' actually!!

Can anyone remember what this bar (now Sinners) was called before it was called Lennon's?

was it Monroes?

Can anyone remember what this bar (now Sinners) was called before it was called Lennon's?


I have found out a bit more about this place (63 Newgate Street) . . .


1 - In the 1800s (!) it was called The Victoria Hotel.

2 - It was rebuilt in the 1920s, but was still called The Victoria.

3 - It closed (as the Victoria) in 1960 and became a carpet shop!

4 - It was re-opened as a pub in 1977, when 'John Smiths' opened it as The Canny Lad.

5 - In the late 1980s, it briefly became called Mr Smiths.

6 - In the early 1990s it became Lennon's.

7 - It is now (as we know) Sinners.

A few more annoying gaps and abandoned buildings for you (apologies in advance if they've been discussed before).

Corner of Blenheim Street & Westgate Road (Used to be site of a pub)
http://www.entertainment-newcastle.com/images/gap3a.jpg http://www.entertainment-newcastle.com/images/gap3b.jpg
Anyone have any ideas what used to be there and what, if any, are the plans for them?I've just come across this old pic of the Carlisle pub in that location, from a W.R.Harle
http://82.39.246.179/photos/CarlislePub_WestgateRoad.jpg

All boarded up still as at 4th June 2010

http://www.entertainment-newcastle.com/images/stereoboardedup.jpg

Royal George replacement, now complete.
The 'Manor House' Care Home at Brunton Park, is now (externally) finished . .

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/nejournal/oct2008/2/6/B7ED9E05-B589-D7C0-2E8D706AECC8D4F8.jpg

Near where I live, the below development, to replace the Royal George Public House (above) attracted more objections than any similar sized development ever has, in Newcastle (so I'm told).

Despite that, the pub was demolished and a new care home has been built on the site.

It is externally finished now, and landscaped, with internal finishing taking place. It is due to open next month.

I actually HATE to say it (as I was a leading objector) but I think the finished article looks quite good, and achieves the objective of "blending in" with the surrounding houses, on its prominent corner site, which I have attempted to show in the second and fourth, of the five photos below . . .

PHOTOS taken 21st June 2010 . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/CareHome21061.jpg

Blending in quite well (height-wise etc) on Princes Road . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/CareHome21063.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/CareHome21064.jpg

Also, blending in looking up Greenfield Road . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/CareHome21066.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/CareHome21069.jpg

Still wish the PUB was there . . . !

Something for the long term boozers in the city.

I know of Blacket Arms on Nelson Street and Black Garter on Clayton Street.

But where is/was The Black Swan?

Is it one of the two above, in a previous incarnation, or is it no longer?

The picture suggests clayton Street 1971, and it looks like it's around Grainger Market.

Any help appreciated.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2695/4078969884_016da64cdb.jpg

Image from Newcastle Libraries stream on flikr

Something for the long term boozers in the city.

I know of Blacket Arms on Nelson Street and Black Garter on Clayton Street.

But where is/was The Black Swan?

Is it one of the two above, in a previous incarnation, or is it no longer?

The picture suggests clayton Street 1971, and it looks like it's around Grainger Market.

Any help appreciated.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2695/4078969884_016da64cdb.jpg

Image from Newcastle Libraries stream on flikr


Yes, I am one of the long-term boozers! I remember the Black Swan, and it wasn't one of my favourite places by a long way, but a good mate of mine knew the landlord (may have been a relative) and we got the occasional 'lock-in' there, in my very early days around the town.

Your photo does indeed show the very distinctive buildings of Clayton Street, around the entrances to the Grainger market.

The Black Swan was merged with the Star & Garter (which I also remember) in the late seventies and the rest is explained in the below extract from Heady days - A History of Newcastle Public Houses (Vol 1 the Central Area) by Brian Bennison . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/BlackSwanClaytonStreet001.jpg

I knew you wouldn't let me down NH :). Thank you very much.

.
More on the "pre-Civic Centre" Haymarket/Barras Bridge Area . . .

Further to the photos in the recent post, HERE - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=60179735&postcount=1066 - here are two more photos . .


1 - A slight enlargement of part of the top photo from 'Post 1066', more clearly shows the then junction of Sandyford Road with the Great North Road (South of the Jesmond Road junction and just North of St Thomas' Church) in the Haymarket/Barras Bridge area . . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Haymarketpre-CivicCentre001a.jpg

If you look closely (in the ABOVE photo) at the point 'just before' Sandyford Road meets the Great North Road, you can make out a four-story building, with a ground-floor "arch extension" at the right hand side of the front of the building, as it fronts onto Sandyford Road.

I did wonder what that building was?

Now, I can see EXACTLY what it is, in the photo BELOW . .

A real 'flash from the past', as the building is revealed as the "Barras Bridge Hotel" . . . and amazingly, this photo also shows the new (very tall) Civic Centre in the process of construction right next to it!


2 - Using this photo, you can now see exactly where this 'Sandyford Road Junction' was, in relation to the Civic Centre building that is there now . . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/BarrasBridgeHotelpre-CivicCentre.jpg

3 - Here is another photo of the Barras Bridge Hotel, a few years earlier, in 1959 . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/BarrasBridgeHotel2001.jpg

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'Book of the Week' - W/C Monday 30th August 2010.

Tyneside PUBS - Past & Present.
Geoff Phillips/Jack Phillips.
G P Electronic Services.
1994.

There are quite a few books that show Contrast Photos of Newcastle 'as it was' alongside a new photo of Newcastle 'as it is now'.

This weeks choice, my eighth and final one from amongst that group of books, moves us nicely on from the "then and now" theme, into my next proposed group of books . . . which is to be about PUBS (of which this choice is the first!)

There are many 'amazing' contrast photos (then and now) in this weeks book!


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Pubs-PastPresent001.jpg

The Northumberland Arms on Northumberland Street, shown "as it always was", in 1966, and in the new "post ES version" in 1990 . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/PubsPastPresent1.jpg

The Portland (my OWN 'in-town' local throughout the 1980s) as it used to look before it had the top level 'chopped off', taken in 1966 and as it is now (in 1990) - ALL GONE . . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/PubsPastPresent2.jpg

Three shots of that famous place (next to 'The Punch Bowl') the Cradlewell, taken in 1896, 1906 and in the 1990s . .
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/PubsPastPresent3.jpg

.

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'Book of the Week' - W/C Monday 6th September 2010.

Old Pubs of Newcastle.
Geoff Phillips.
G P Electronic Services.
1995.

There are quite a few books that have been written about, and have many excellent photographs of, "the Public Houses of Newcastle and the North East", both past and present.

This weeks choice is my second from amongst that group of books, the first one being last week, which was also the LAST of the 'Newcastle then and now' series.

It is an excellent book, best explained by a note on its own cover . . .

"Why remember the old pubs of Newcastle? For many Tynesiders the pub is their second home, a place to unwind, a place to share a good story or a joke. The pub is a part of the culture of the City, Town and Suburb. It also forms part of the history of many a place, often providing us with a significant part of its architectural heritage."


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/OldPubsofNewcastle.jpg


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/GraingerHotel.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/ThePlough.jpg

.

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'Book of the Week' - W/C Monday 13th September 2010.

Inn Guide to the North East.
Newcastle Inns.
Newcastle Breweries Ltd.
1984.

There are quite a few books that have been written about, and have many excellent photographs of, "the Public Houses of Newcastle and the North East", both past and present.

This weeks choice is my third from amongst that group of books, and is a quite 'different' book, from the rest of those that will be shown in this series. The difference is, that this is a "Guide to the pubs of one particular brewer", and was written BY the brewer for use (at the time) as an aid to people to decide where to go for a meal and/or a night out.

Now (here in 2010) it has become more of a historical record of some of the pubs of the North East, frozen at a moment in time, ie the early-1980s.

Newcastle Inns / Newcastle Breweries / Scottish & Newcastle Breweries, all were/are an important part of the public house scene in our region. Other interesting information about "S&N" (etc) has already been posted on this forum - HERE . . .

Scottish & Newcastle Inns - 150 S&N Pubs of the 1980s
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=53752027&postcount=862
Scottish & Newcastle Inns - Price List from 1972
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=53864917&postcount=863
Newcastle Breweries Ltd and the 'Famous Blue Star' - in the early 1960s
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=61010743&postcount=1097
The Geordie Pride, a massive S&N bar opposite Central Station
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=48304095&postcount=365

Now, back to this weeks book . . .


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/InnGuide1.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/InnGuide2.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/SNPubGuide2.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/SNPubGuide1.jpg

.

.
'Book of the Week' - W/C Monday 20th September 2010.

Heady Days, A History of Newcastle's Public Houses : Volume One - The Central Area.
Brian Bennison
Newcastle Libraries & Information Service.
1996.

There are quite a few books that have been written about, and have many excellent photographs of, "the Public Houses of Newcastle and the North East", both past and present.

This weeks choice is my fourth from amongst that group of books, and covers the history of Newcastle Public Houses, in the City Centre.

This book is actually 'Volume One' of a three-part series, that will (when all three are seen) cover West, East and North Newcastle also. Volume One looks at over three hundred pubs that have graced (and occasionally 'disgraced') the City Centre over the last 100 years or so.

The discussions herein, include many great photos as well as descriptions of premises, dates of demise of famous places from the past, as well as stories about famous landlords and drinkers, from many of the City Centre establishments.


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/19Sept20101.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/19Sept20103.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/19Sept20104.jpg

.

.
'Book of the Week' - W/C Monday 27th September 2010.

Heavy Nights, A History of Newcastle's Public Houses : Volume Two - The North and East.
Brian Bennison
Newcastle Libraries & Information Service.
1997.

There are quite a few books that have been written about, and have many excellent photographs of, "the Public Houses of Newcastle and the North East", both past and present.

This weeks choice is my fifth from amongst that group of books, and covers the history of Newcastle Public Houses in North and East Newcastle.

This book is 'Volume Two' of a three-part series, and covers some 300 pubs in the following areas of Newcastle . . . Jesmond, Spital Tongues, Heaton, Gosforth, Fawdon, Coxlodge, Kenton, Shieldfield, Ouseburn, Byker, and Walker, as well as parts of Quayside . . .


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/HeavyNights2.jpg
The Front Cover shows The Rose & Crown, in Walker Road, in 1908.

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/HeavyNightsNENewcastle3.jpg
These two pages show (Left) the junction of City Road and Tyne Street in 1973 and (Right) The Free Trade Inn, in 1913.


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/HeavyNightsNENewcastle1.jpg
These two pages show (Left) a 1938 advert from 'The Grand' at Byker, and (Right) 'The Royal Oak' on Walker Road in the early 1950s, and 'The Ford Arms' in January 1967.


I love this next photo (though I don't think it has 'scanned in' too well). Inside 'The North Terrace', along Claremont Road, circa 1955. I would just LOVE to walk in there right now!

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/HeavyNights1.jpg


.

Was it the Ford Arms that in later years carried the slogan in huge lettering "Win or Lose, We'll have some Booze"?

Was it the Ford Arms that in later years carried the slogan in huge lettering "Win or Lose, We'll have some Booze"?


That, I don't know Wilf!

Perhaps someone else will know?

.
'Book of the Week' - W/C Monday 4th October 2010.

Lost Weekends, A History of Newcastle's Public Houses : Volume Three - The West.
Brian Bennison
Newcastle Libraries & Information Service.
1998.


There are quite a few books that have been written about, and have many excellent photographs of, "the Public Houses of Newcastle and the North East", both past and present.

This weeks choice is my sixth from amongst that group of books, and covers the history of Newcastle Public Houses in West Newcastle.

This book is 'Volume Three' of a three-part series, and covers some 300 pubs, being an 'exploration' of the licensed houses of the following areas of Newcastle . . . Arthur's Hill, Westgate, Elswick, Scotswood Road, then the rest of Scotswood, and through Benwell, Bell's Close, Lemington, Newburn, Throckley, Westerhope, Cowgate, and Walbottle.


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/LostWeekendsPubsoftheWestEnd1.jpg
The Front Cover shows The Green Tree, Laurel Street, Scotswood - in 1958.


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/LostWeekendsPubsoftheWestEnd2.jpg


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/LostWeekendsPubsoftheWestEnd3.jpg


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/LostWeekendsPubsoftheWestEnd4.jpg

.

That book ^ is my favourite. An excellent resource for the pubs of Scotswood Road.

Was there also a book by Geoff Philip about the pubs of Scotswood Rd?

That book ^ is my favourite. An excellent resource for the pubs of Scotswood Road.

Was there also a book by Geoff Philip about the pubs of Scotswood Rd?


Hi merleb,

There is a book called "Scotswood Road Pubs" by Jimmy Forsyth. Could that be the one that you mean?

It will be making an appearance later in the series!

That, I don't know Wilf!

Perhaps someone else will know?

Close Wilf. Here is a photo of Jackies Bar on Wilfred Street, which used to be The Ford pub.

GBDT


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/5051786487_824ec65b75_b.jpg


p.s. NH, I did it first time - got the photo to diplay without your help!

Hi merleb,

There is a book called "Scotswood Road Pubs" by Jimmy Forsyth. Could that be the one that you mean?

It will be making an appearance later in the series!

Ah Jimmy was it? Thanks NH, looking forward to seeing it again. I got it out of the library about 15 years ago and it was very good.

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'Book of the Week' - W/C Monday 11th October 2010.

Scotswood Road PUBS.
Jimmy Forsyth
Newcastle City Libraries.
1988.

There are quite a few books that have been written about, and have many excellent photographs of, "the Public Houses of Newcastle and the North East", both past and present.

This weeks choice is my seventh from amongst that group of books, and has been chosen "by request" . . .

The 'Lost Weekends' book is my favourite. An excellent resource for the pubs of Scotswood Road. Was there also a book by Geoff Phillips, about the pubs of Scotswood Rd?

Hi merleb, Maybe there is, but there is definitely a book called "Scotswood Road Pubs" by Jimmy Forsyth. Could that be the one that you mean? It will be making an appearance later in the series!

Ah Jimmy was it? Thanks NH, looking forward to seeing it again. I got it out of the library about 15 years ago and it was very good.


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/ScotswoodRoadPubs4.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/ScotswoodRoadPubs1.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/ScotswoodRoadPubs3.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/ScotswoodRoadPubs2.jpg


.

That looks good - I'll have to see if I can root a copy out somewhere. Another great pub book is Lynn Pearson's Northumbrian Pubs - the Duke of Cumberland (above) looks very similar to some of the Felling pubs she covered, by the practice of Septimus Oswald (I think). Big towers, domes, very impressive, no expense spared!

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'Book of the Week' - W/C Monday 18th October 2010.

Tyneside's Bygone Boozers.
Geoff Phillips
G P Electronic Services.
1994.

There are quite a few books that have been written about, and have many excellent photographs of, "the Public Houses of Newcastle and the North East", both past and present.

This weeks choice is my eighth from amongst that group of books, and is a small, but excellent, book full of great photos and details. More details of the book are in the second of the four scans, below . . .


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/BygoneBoozers-19944.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/BygoneBoozers-19943.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/BygoneBoozers-19942.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/BygoneBoozers-19941.jpg

.

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'Book of the Week' - W/C Monday 25th October 2010.

Brewers & Bottlers of Newcastle upon Tyne - from 1850 to the present day.
Brian Bennison
Newcastle upon Tyne City Libraries & Arts.
1995.

This book, the ninth in this short series about "the Public Houses of Newcastle and the North East", is pehaps my favourite.

As can be seen from the title, this book not only covers the pubs, but also the 'brewers and bottlers', and is all the more fascinating for that!

The narrative is VERY informative, and the photos are quite rare, many of them not seen anywhere else . . .


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/BrewersandBottlers2.jpg


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/BrewersandBottlers3.jpg


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/BrewersandBottlers4.jpg


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/BrewersandBottlers1.jpg


I just had to include, as one of the example pages, the last one (above) which included The Midland.

In the early 1980s, I had some memorable times there, it wasn't the venue I frequented the most (I think The Portland and the Burton House jointly hold that record!) but some of the occasions I was there, long stick in the mind.

Great days!!

.

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'Book of the Week' - W/C Monday 1st November 2010.

The Northumbrian Pub, an Architectural History
Lynn F Pearson
Sandhill Press
1989.

This book, the tenth one in this short series about "the Public Houses of Newcastle and the North East", is unusual in that it is one I have not read myself, but it comes recommended . . .


Another great pub book is Lynn Pearson's Northumbrian Pubs - the Duke of Cumberland (in the 'Scotswood Road PUBS' book) looks very similar to some of the Felling pubs she covered, by the practice of Septimus Oswald (I think). Big towers, domes, very impressive, no expense spared!


I think I will definitely try to get hold of a copy, but in the meantime . . .


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/NoerthumbrianPub.jpg


also, the book is described on its own dust jacket, as . . .


To demonstrate that the pub is much more than just a building in a landscape, the author has gathered together strands of information on architecture, brewers, the local economy and social history and through the buildings themselves, shows why our local pubs look as they do today.

Examples are drawn from urban, country and coastal pubs, some now demolished, reaching from the Georgian era to the present day and beyond.

The trail of discovery takes the reader from the crowded city of Newcastle upon Tyne, through the quayside, then along the coast, out into Weardale and along the North Tyne Valley.

Much fascinating detail is given as the pubs are described, and the influence of the important brewing industries, and local architects, are examined.

Lavishly illustrated with an extensive bibliography



.

.
'Book of the Week' - W/C Monday 8th November 2010.

The Burglars Dog - Alternative Guide to Drinking in Newcastle upon Tyne
Mark Jones
Tonto Press
2006.


This book, the eleventh and final one in this short series about "the Public Houses of Newcastle and the North East", is explained (in it's authors own words) on the back cover, shown below.

There has been an updated version of the book, as explained on the Website, here . . .

http://www.theburglarsdog.co.uk/

Sadly, the website goes on to explain that the author has also "retired" from updating it, which is a shame, but it has been a very enjoyable experience (even if I didn't always agree with what was written) reading the book and the website - so many thanks for that!


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/BurglarsDog_0001.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/BurglarsDog_0002.jpg

.

A great watering hole too.The back Turks.


Remember it well. We used to go in the hotel bar, then (I'm sure) you could walk through to the back bar and (eventually) out onto High Bridge.

Did that (in those days) ever have another name? Like the 'Royal Court' or 'The Collingwood', or something? It is all a bit vague!

I remember one night, late on, we couldn't seem to get through there, there was like a "metal bar gate" that was shut. I don't know if that was when they first started work on changing things around, or whether that was "just us" (late on that evening) . . .

The place on High Bridge opened as 'The Turks' years later, and (out of interest) the main barmaid in there is now at the other side of High Bridge, at the Duke.

Remember it well. We used to go in the hotel bar, then (I'm sure) you could walk through to the back bar and (eventually) out onto High Bridge.

Did that (in those days) ever have another name? Like the 'Royal Court' or 'The Collingwood', or something? It is all a bit vague!

I remember one night, late on, we couldn't seem to get through there, there was like a "metal bar gate" that was shut. I don't know if that was when they first started work on changing things around, or whether that was "just us" (late on that evening) . . .

The place on High Bridge opened as 'The Turks' years later, and (out of interest) the main barmaid in there is now at the other side of High Bridge, at the Duke.

Hello everyone :)

The bar in the hotel was called 'Puncinello's' and had a gay clientele - it's described on the Northern Pride website's Gay Heritage Tour as "the resort of older ‘refined’ homosexuals". I called in a few times for lunchtime drinks with some friends who worked at Binns, and seem to remember the booths were designed to look like horse-drawn carriages (without the horses, obviously).

The bar on High Bridge was called the Lord Collingwood (also known as the Chain Locker). The Royal Court Grill was a cellar bar in the Bigg Market. You could definitely walk through to the Collingwood from the hotel.

The Royal Turks Hotel was quite upmarket and was used to catering for 'showbiz' types, with the Theatre Royal being nearby. I remember reading an interview with Rod Stewart in the 1970s where he said it was one of his favourite UK hotels. And of course, The Beatles wrote 'She Loves You' while staying at the hotel after playing at the Majestic in 1963

Shows how blind I am then, as we all used to go to the Turks Head hotel a lot, and no one ever noticed the gay aspect!

THANKS for confirming the 'Lord Collingwood' name . . . I knew (sort of) that it was a name like that. Excellent!

I must admit that I didn't either. And I miss-spelt the name in my post, it should have said 'Punchinello'.

I used to frequent the Turk's Head in the 60s and I remember the long walk along the drab corridor linking the posh end with the cheap and cheerful "Back Turk's". There was a metal gate but I never saw it closed though it was never my last port of call.

As for the Beatles writing She Loves You in the Royal Turk's this is disputed and when asked in 2003 neither of the surviving members could remember whether it was the Imperial Hotel or the Royal Turk's Head where the group had stayed that night.

As for the Beatles writing She Loves You in the Royal Turk's this is disputed and when asked in 2003 neither of the surviving members could remember whether it was the Imperial Hotel or the Royal Turk's Head where the group had stayed that night.

That's what it says on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/She_Loves_You) - and it doesn’t surprise me that neither Paul or Ringo could remember the name of a Newcastle hotel, forty years later!

But as I recall, the Council were going to put a plaque outside the Imperial based on a general assumption that the song was written there, despite there being no evidence that they’d stayed there that night.

However, a taxi driver claimed in the Chronicle that he’d dropped the band off at the Turks that evening, and their stay is confirmed in a book by Barry Miles called The Beatles Diary (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_TBkf1ttNBYC&pg=PA84&lpg=PA84&dq=%22Majestic+Ballroom%22+Newcastle&source=web&ots=gJYV29J-mj&sig=4pWXcJITYiijiPXJFjZGuo0FOac&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=12&ct=result#v=onepage&q=%22Majestic%20Ballroom%22%20Newcastle&f=false) (a day-by-day account of their career, published in 1998), which also states that the song was written there.

Also, in 2006 Anderson & Garland auctioned a set of their autographs obtained by someone at Pilgrim Street police station, where they’d sought refuge from fans while in Newcastle at the time, which suggests they were using a city centre hotel. The Turks was the only hotel near the police station - a couple of hundred yards away.

It's by no means conclusive but the Turks' claim seems to be far more credible than the Imperial's.

AH, the Chain Locker with those lousy plastic "glasses".

=Al Reetson;6706224
The bar on High Bridge was called the Lord Collingwood (also known as the Chain Locker). The Royal Court Grill was a cellar bar in the Bigg Market. You could definitely walk through to the Collingwood from the hotel.

The Collingwood bar in High Bridge, from P&T Image Archive, Newcastle City Council
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5173016748_91253e9c8f_b.jpg


Cheers
GBDT

.

^^^^

FANTASTIC photo GBDT, brings back so many memories.

Not just for me, but for a whole group of us who meet up once a year at The Duke of Wellington, further along High Bridge. We have met up in the first week of December, every year since 1979, and I have sent this photo to all of them!

Mind, I can't actually remember that Maynards being there, which is surprising as I have a definite sweet tooth!

Correct Wilf,

and here is the proof . . .




http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/BroadloomMills.jpg


Well, thats it for me and the 'General Knowledge' thread, for today.

Four questions asked, and four questions very quickly and correctly answered!

Having now decided it's far too cold to venture out to the bar, then all I have to figure out is how to avoid having to watch the X Factor!!

Hmmmm, think I'll take the cat for a walk!

Aah the Grapes, a favoured watering establishment, no lasses!Was in the night it finally closed:cheers:
and look at the polis's hat it's got stripes and not the checks they have these days.

i hope someone else will confirm this-the central has never been known as the coffin despite its shape. there was a pub further down old askew road which was, and i cant recall its name.

. . . . there was a pub further down old askew road which was, and i cant recall its name.

The Foresters Arms.
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/SNO00068.jpg


Demolished in 1967
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/GL000222.jpg

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thanks dx-my grandad used to drink in there and it looks a canny pub . you have just confirmed my view of the journal/chronicles lazy journalism!

Andym, thanks for raising the point about the Central. I was puzzled by the references to it as the Coffin because I have lived in Gateshead most of my life and I have never heard it called such. The Coffin was always the Foresters on Askew Road and most locals never knew it as anything else. My grandfather used to take me to see Gateshead play at Redheugh Park occasionally and he would always stop for a pint at the Coffin or the Maggie (Magpie) on the way. I don't think I suffered from having to stand at the door and watch in awe as the big man sank his one pint in double quick time. The name the Foresters Arms survives on a pub in Askew Road West but it has none of the style of the original.

If the Central is coffin shaped whats wrong with nicknaming it the coffin bar ?
Is there a law which states just because an old defunct pub had that nickname a current pub can't have the same one :)

There is a rule that it's rather lazy journalism to say that a pub "is known as the coffin" when it isn't and never has been...

Also, The Central isn't even vaguely coffin shaped - you'd need a massive head/shoulders and tiny feet to end up in a box like that.

I have to say i've never heard of the central being nicknamed 'the coffin'. However the Foresters Arms was before it was razed along with almost the entire length of Askew Rd and Derwentwater Rd when the A184 was built.

Also, The Central isn't even vaguely coffin shaped - you'd need a massive head/shoulders and tiny feet to end up in a box like that.
Isn't it?

http://82.39.246.179/photos/Central Bar plan orig.gif

It is tapered to almost a point at both ends.

Wow, the Forrester Arms is really hard to pin down. The whole streetscape has been completely demolished. Am I anywhere near?

http://paulturnbull.co.uk/Images/view_01_composite.jpg

I'd say the Central certainly looks pretty coffin-shaped, rather more so than (from the pictures here) the Forester's, whether or not it was known as 'The Coffin'.

I'm sure I've also read somewhere that the Crown Posada was nicknamed 'the Coffin' for its shape, though I have never heard it called that.

Wow, the Forrester Arms is really hard to pin down. The whole streetscape has been completely demolished. Am I anywhere near?

http://paulturnbull.co.uk/Images/view_01_composite.jpg

Nice picture merge and pretty close .. It would be on the left hand carriageway as you look at your image. The original Askew Rd in this area is now under the far left slip road joining the A184 towards newcastle.

The Upton St flats can be seen to the left of below image. These were demolished abut 10 yrs ago. A housing estate sits here now.

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/GL000222.jpg

There is a rule that it's rather lazy journalism to say that a pub "is known as the coffin" when it isn't and never has been...

Chronic/Journal guilty of lazy journalism. In other news, Pope confirms affinity to Catholicism.

I actually have heard the Central referred to as the coffin in the past.... I always assumed it was due to the average age of the clientele rather than the shape of the building!

You can see that the Forester actually is coffin shaped, although there appears to be a later extension. The Central is practically triangular - you might get a coffin that shape if you were burying a guy with a massive gut sideways, but otherwsie...

Never thought to check Google Earth historical imagery.

http://paulturnbull.co.uk/Images/1945.jpg

I'd say the Central certainly looks pretty coffin-shaped, rather more so than (from the pictures here) the Forester's, whether or not it was known as 'The Coffin'.

I'm sure I've also read somewhere that the Crown Posada was nicknamed 'the Coffin' for its shape, though I have never heard it called that.

I've known a few managers of the Crown Posada over the years and none of them have heard it referred to as 'The Coffin', except in the Chronicle.

To be fair, I think Sir John Fitzgerald's have something to do with this, they love a bit of folklore. They've always been happy to perpetuate the myth that the Posada was once owned by a sea captain whose Spanish mistress ran the place, this being the origin of its name. Not true.

The actual reason is a lot more mundane.

I've known a few managers of the Crown Posada over the years and none of them have heard it referred to as 'The Coffin', except in the Chronicle.

To be fair, I think Sir John Fitzgerald's have something to do with this, they love a bit of folklore. They've always been happy to perpetuate the myth that the Posada was once owned by a sea captain whose Spanish mistress ran the place, this being the origin of its name. Not true.

The actual reason is a lot more mundane.

I have heard the Crown Posada referred to as 'The Corridor' though. But I wasn't aware that the sea captain/Spanish mistress was a myth - tell us more!

Never thought to check Google Earth historical imagery.

http://paulturnbull.co.uk/Images/1945.jpg


Excellent work, I assume 'The Foresters' is in the circle.

That 1945 Google Earth view, is great. We discussed it here, in September (various posts, either side of) . . .

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=63950893&postcount=1214

I have heard the Crown Posada referred to as 'The Corridor' though. But I wasn't aware that the sea captain/Spanish mistress was a myth - tell us more!

The 'official' line from Sir John Fitgerald's is that the Crown Posada is one of Newcastle's oldest pubs. According to them, it was originally called 'The Crown' and around 1800 it was owned by a sea captain who brought his mistress over from Spain to run the place. When he returned from his travels he would meet up with her there - 'Posada' roughly translates from Spanish as 'a place where people meet'. The rest is 'history'.

I looked into this a while ago when researching the history of Newcastle's pubs, and found that the Posada was built as recently as 1878 and stands on the site of a chemists shop that had been there donkeys years. So it's nowhere near being one of Newcastle's oldest pubs.

It was indeed originally called 'The Crown', but the Spanish connection comes from the Mexican and Spanish consulates that were situated nearby, on either side of it.

Their Spanish-speaking employees used the Crown as a mutually convenient place to meet - a 'posada', if you like - and this nickname stuck before becoming incorporated in the pub's proper name.

Excellent work, I assume 'The Foresters' is in the circle.

That 1945 Google Earth view, is great. We discussed it here, in September (various posts, either side of) . . .

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=63950893&postcount=1214

Agreed, that's exactly where it was .. slight misalignment on the modern map tho, it need to be moved about 1/2 inch to the right .. the A184 actually runs to the right of old Askew Rd and directly over the Foresters Arms site. The mini roundabout to the left of the circle should be ligned up with old Askew Rd .. The slip roads were built on top of the old rd.

The 'official' line from Sir John Fitgerald's is that the Crown Posada is one of Newcastle's oldest pubs. According to them, it was originally called 'The Crown' and around 1800 it was owned by a sea captain who brought his mistress over from Spain to run the place. When he returned from his travels he would meet up with her there - 'Posada' roughly translates from Spanish as 'a place where people meet'. The rest is 'history'.

I looked into this a while ago when researching the history of Newcastle's pubs, and found that the Posada was built as recently as 1878 and stands on the site of a chemists shop that had been there donkeys years. So it's nowhere near being one of Newcastle's oldest pubs.

It was indeed originally called 'The Crown', but the Spanish connection comes from the Mexican and Spanish consulates that were situated nearby, on either side of it.

Their Spanish-speaking employees used the Crown as a mutually convenient place to meet - a 'posada', if you like - and this nickname stuck before becoming incorporated in the pub's proper name.

Yes, thanks, Al: that's new and myth-busting information for me. Good stuff (and shows the worth of this forum and its many contributors as a historical source).

The 'official' line from Sir John Fitgerald's is that the Crown Posada is one of Newcastle's oldest pubs. According to them, it was originally called 'The Crown' and around 1800 it was owned by a sea captain who brought his mistress over from Spain to run the place. When he returned from his travels he would meet up with her there - 'Posada' roughly translates from Spanish as 'a place where people meet'. The rest is 'history'.

I looked into this a while ago when researching the history of Newcastle's pubs, and found that the Posada was built as recently as 1878 and stands on the site of a chemists shop that had been there donkeys years. So it's nowhere near being one of Newcastle's oldest pubs.

It was indeed originally called 'The Crown', but the Spanish connection comes from the Mexican and Spanish consulates that were situated nearby, on either side of it.

Their Spanish-speaking employees used the Crown as a mutually convenient place to meet - a 'posada', if you like - and this nickname stuck before becoming incorporated in the pub's proper name.

Yes, thanks, Al: that's new and myth-busting information for me. Good stuff (and shows the worth of this forum and its many contributors as a historical source).

That's very interesting - SJF have it as the 'second oldest', but at 1878 that sounds wildly unlikely.

the Spanish connection comes from the Mexican and Spanish consulates that were situated nearby, on either side of it.

Doing a bit of Digging the Mexican vice consul [a George Jenkins] was based at 1 Sandhill, with the Anglo American Telegraph Company, and the Spanish [a Ferdinand de Capri, with the Chancellor, a John Avery] was at 67 Grey Street, so though they were not directly on either side this idea of their hooking up in the Crown sounds at least plausible.

It wasn't there in 1858 according to Kelly's - the chemist story also seems to stack up, though the chemist [John Pattinson] is listed as an analytical chemist. There is a spirit merchant [Alexander Dinning] listed at 33 Side. Looking at this [and the role of the spirit merchant in importing, and often bottling wines] I also wonder if this might give some form of hispanic connection to the address - thinking of Jerez, sherries etc.

Ward's 1890 Directory doesn't show the bar listed as the Crown [with or without the Posada], but it does list a Gibson & Co, Innkeepers on the site [there may, or may not be significance to other Innkeepers in the directory not having the & Co]. Kelly's 1894 onwards has it as listed as the Crown Posada with the prop' being a George Frederick Gibson.

On the subject of the oldest pub in the city centre; does anyone have a definitive answer to this. My reading is that until the wrecking ball hit the Egypt Cottage was usually held out at the oldest. Discounting the Crown Posada there seem to be claims for the Old George [which sounds plausible] and the Duke of Wellington http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006021304010. The Duke sounds a little improbable, though as it s run by a friend it would cheer him up if it were true.

Anyone have a definitive on this ?

That's very interesting - SJF have it as the 'second oldest', but at 1878 that sounds wildly unlikely.



Doing a bit of Digging the Mexican vice consul [a George Jenkins] was based at 1 Sandhill, with the Anglo American Telegraph Company, and the Spanish [a Ferdinand de Capri, with the Chancellor, a John Avery] was at 67 Grey Street, so though they were not directly on either side this idea of their hooking up in the Crown sounds at least plausible.

It wasn't there in 1858 according to Kelly's - the chemist story also seems to stack up, though the chemist [John Pattinson] is listed as an analytical chemist. There is a spirit merchant [Alexander Dinning] listed at 33 Side. Looking at this [and the role of the spirit merchant in importing, and often bottling wines] I also wonder if this might give some form of hispanic connection to the address - thinking of Jerez, sherries etc.

Ward's 1890 Directory doesn't show the bar listed as the Crown [with or without the Posada], but it does list a Gibson & Co, Innkeepers on the site [there may, or may not be significance to other Innkeepers in the directory not having the & Co]. Kelly's 1894 onwards has it as listed as the Crown Posada with the prop' being a George Frederick Gibson.

Just checked my notes again for the book I've been researching.

In 1865 the spirit merchant Alexander Dinning was also trading as 'The Crown', but his building was demolished. The present building was erected in 1880 on the nearby site of the chemists for a local brewer called John Sanderson. He was convicted of "allowing drunkeness on the premises" that year.

The Spanish murals were painted in 1903 and the Crown Posada (as it was now called) was acquired by Fitzgerald's in the early 1920s.

On the subject of the oldest pub in the city centre; does anyone have a definitive answer to this. My reading is that until the wrecking ball hit the Egypt Cottage was usually held out at the oldest. Discounting the Crown Posada there seem to be claims for the Old George [which sounds plausible] and the Duke of Wellington http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006021304010. The Duke sounds a little improbable, though as it s run by a friend it would cheer him up if it were true.

Anyone have a definitive on this ?

It depends on what rules you apply. There was an Egypt Inn on the site in 1734, which was known as the Egypt Cottage by 1834. But that building burned down forty years later and was rebuilt, meaning the pub demolished last year wasn’t as old as The Forth, for example.

The Blackie Boy is mentioned in texts as early as 1751 but the building collapsed in 1889 and the present one was built the same year.

Lance is in with a shout with the Duke of Wellington, as there has been a licensed premises on the spot since at least 1810, when Stokoe’s Wine Merchants was established. That dates it to around the time the Barley Mow/Stereo was built - but it didn't become known as the Duke of Wellington until a couple of decades later.

If the criterion is how long a pub has traded continuously on the same spot, then there has been a pub just down from Pumphrey’s (I forget what it’s called this week) since at least 1635, when it was called the White Swan. There is a record of a Sir William Brereton lodging at the White Swan in June of that year. Apparently he didn't care too much for it.

It merged with adjacent buildings over the years which have doubtless been rebuilt or at least extensively remodelled, and has been known variously as the Nags Head and Robinsons Wine Cellar. Legend has it that wine worth a million pounds in today’s money was buried in the yard behind Robinson’s during the war.

If it changed its name back to the White Swan (a name that had survived until the 1970s), then it would be Newcastle’s oldest pub by virtue of having traded continuously on the same spot for four centuries, but little if anything of the original building survives.

The Old George’s claim is marred by the fact it spent a large part of the 19th century as a coffee warehouse for Pumphrey’s, but part of it undeniably dates to at least King Charles 1’s time when it was a pub and it is a pub now with its original name – and therefore Newcastle’s ‘oldest pub’ by a long way.

Many thanks for the reply. I look forwards to seeing the book. The consulate story certainly seems to stack up [though I must admit I was amazed that there was a Mexican consulate at the time]. I discussed this with a couple of friends in The Duke last night; they had heard that the latest Fitzgerald's steer is that the Crown is the oldest licensed establishment in Newcastle, but in the light of your research that also seems unlikely.

Oldest pub does seem a nightmare. I suppose I had in mind a test of continually trading on the same site [with perhaps the odd brief closure for refurb' and rebuild]. Worryingly that test would mean that it's Circuit 1, the foetid pit that replaced the equally unpleasant Liquid which would get the honours

http://www.pubsnewcastle.co.uk/Circuit1.jpg.

God help us, this is the oldest continuously trading pub premises in Newcastle. I am reminded of HL Mencken's axiom that 'no one ever went bust under-estimating...'. This is prima facie evidence that no one ever went bust under-estimating the tastes of Bigg Market Drinkers !!!!!

There is a record of a Sir William Brereton lodging at the White Swan in June of that year. Apparently he didn't care too much for it.

Some things don't change. Mind you Brereton was a staunch puritan, so perhaps the Bigg Market was never going to be his natural home. At least they're keeping the standards as low as possible. Perhaps they'd like a blue plaque... then again :ohno:.

Lance seems to be keeping ahead. I gather he's in with a good shout at 2nd in CAMRA's pub of the year. Actually, there's the opportunity for a bit of lobbying here; CAMRA members vote for the Duke. I always brighten my evening up by getting friends who've never met Lance to try to order a pint of John Smiths - then I duck :bash:.

Are we talking about oldest public house or oldest licenced premises?
If it's the latter then would Balmbras be considered? It gets a mention in the Blaydon Races (1862 on a summer afternoon, etc). I am assuming that being a music hall in those days that it would be selling drinks.

Just a thought,
Cheers
GBDT

.

Are we talking about oldest public house or oldest licenced premises?
If it's the latter then would Balmbras be considered? It gets a mention in the Blaydon Races (1862 on a summer afternoon, etc). I am assuming that being a music hall in those days that it would be selling drinks.

Just a thought,
Cheers
GBDT




That’s a very good point and you certainly can’t argue with its credentials, it’s mentioned in the Geordie national anthem!

The pub Geordie Ridley was singing about – and first performed ‘Blaydon Races’ in - wasn’t called ‘Balmbra’s’, it was the Wheat Sheaf. It was popularly known at the time as Balmbra’s because John Balmbra owned it. But the Wheat Sheaf dates back to at least 1832 as far as I can tell.

It later became the Oxford Music Hall and was rebuilt in 1902, opening as the Carlton Hotel, with a billiard hall at the back. It wasn’t until 1962 that it became officially called Balmbra’s, when the brewery decided to cash in on the centenary of the legendary trip to ‘Blaydon Races’ in Ridley's song, and the billiard hall became a music hall.

Technically they got it wrong because the Blaydon Races were cancelled in 1862 (so there was no bus from Balmbra's, that "summer's efternoon"), but Ridley had already written the song in anticipation of the event, based on a bus trip from the pub the previous year.

.

^^
Old George? After all it was a coach inn.

.
Most of us know the Cooperage, in more recent times, very well!

Here is an interesting photo of what it used to look like when it was still being used for it's original purpose, as late on as the 1950s . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/Cooperage.jpg


In the 1980s, while I was working with Waverley Vintners Ltd along Sandyford Road, I was lucky enough to meet a quite elderley gentleman there, called Harry.

He was known within the company as "the last Cooper in Newcastle" . . . and that was in fact exactly what he was.

He was also a very interesting character to talk to!

Well how about going back to the Northumberland Arms name.

Rosie's Bar used to be called The Northumberland Arms in this 1977 photo.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5208/5301767626_d45e153752_b.jpg

P&T Image Archive, NCC

cheers
GBDT

I've been searching for these all over my hard drives today and finally found them.

When the boarding that had been up against the old Carlisle pub came down in 2003/4 I took the opportunity to take some pics. I thought the building would be renovated but alas it was torn down which was sad.

What was amazing about the site was how little had changed since it had been boarded up, the signage and posters are brilliant.

You also get a sewing machine supply shop as an extra :nuts:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5283/5358051745_d79ff1d399_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5286/5358064609_aaa8082e3a_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5165/5358675370_429527a0b6_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5047/5358058453_ab0a379620_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5242/5358669594_d92d33aed7_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5121/5358686430_db31e70e7a_b.jpg

Hope you enjoyed those

F

Hi ferret88,

Yes, I did enjoy those, thanks.

Great to see the old 'Carlisle Pub' again, on that corner. A great shame what happened to it, and the fact that (so far) it was all to no avail, as nothing has happened with the site yet.

While I was routinely adding a 'link' to this post to the Forum INDEX Thread, I saw that there were links to three other posts about the Carlisle on there, that you may not have seen yet, and may be interested in?

They are listed under both "C" (for Carlisle) and under "P" (for Pubs and Public Houses) the latter link being along with a lot of other interesting posts about other public houses!

Yes thanks I'll check those out, I think I've looked at some of the pub threads earlier, was particularly nostalgic to see the Portland on New Bridge Street, I only frequented it for a short while back in 91/92 while on yet another useless government training scheme in the same building as the Central Snooker Club (also now gone I believe, shame I used to love popping down for a toasted sarnie at lunch!). Even so I have good memories of the pub and was shocked one day when I walked past after not being in that area for a while and it was gone!

Btw I apologise for having to put those pics on links, I wanted to just put them on the post but couldn't for the life of me get the img link thing to work :bash:

F

How long was that Carlisle pub boarded up for!?

Those posters were ancient. Did they really leave that building derelict for so many years?

How long was that Carlisle pub boarded up for!?

Those posters were ancient. Did they really leave that building derelict for so many years?

I have photos of the advert hoardings going up but there is no date on the file. I have other photos dated 1988 which show the hoardings. So I assume they went up early (?) 80's. The building was knocked down early 2000's.

Cheers

GBDT

Since you mention it, I have changed the 'links' to photos in your original post, looks better I agree.

The Portland was my second home (some would say my first home, that is, when I wasn't in the 'Burton House' next door) for many years in the 80s and early 90s, mainly on the pinball machine ('Gogar' etc) in the cut-out at the back!

My favourite barmaids, Joan and Joy worked there, I remember, Joy was great, no matter what you ordered you often ended up with a pint of Scotch. Amazing!

Was a pity when both those pubs went. I've got old photos and stuff about both those places, I'll put them up on here one day!


If you went there during the day in the week you might have seen me and my friends there the odd time, playing pool and the jukebox. I have fond memories of listening to Bryan Adams' Everything I do I do it for you playing in there so that roughly pinpoints the time (though not that much as that shite was number one for four months!).

F

Interesting how the famous "Turners Photography Head Office" used to be "Henry Angus & Co Coach and Harness Makers"!!

Here's a one from the 1890's - out of copyright and photographer unknown

http://www.fototime.com/F5D5E39F56BF797/standard.jpg


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5003/5378671194_f1e2d7217b_b.jpg

and yes . . .

Btw is the building behind it with CAMERAS PHOTOGRAPHY on it still there? Is it the building the Forth is in? The reason I ask is because I never realised how tall it is relatively speaking.


The Turners Photography building is still there. That was their Head Office building. Turners Photography had many photographic shops around the City Centre right through until the late 80s, early 90s, including at Grey's Monument and in the Eldon Square Shopping Centre. In fact, their big two-floor store in ES (on High Friars) was one of the original 'flagship stores' of Eldon Square, for many years. A very well known local firm, Turners Photography.

The Forth is a little way further up Pink Lane than Turners, I think their building is only a two-storey, and (interestingly) on the below photo from 1995, you can see exactly where the Forth is in relation to the Turners Photography building.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2730/4086741061_70be43f8a2_o.jpg
Photo of 'The Forth/Pink Lane', courtesy of Newcastle City Council/City Libraries PHOTOSTREAM - http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/

.

The Barley Mow / Stereo, over the years.


1920 . .

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3007/4075548403_c01303bea6_o.jpg


1965

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2591/4076856143_1398dd035a_o.jpg


1992

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2508/4091152824_d4f944aba9_o.jpg


2000's

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/StereoBar.jpg


Future Plans

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/stereo3.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/stereo1.jpg



1920, 1965 and 1992 PHOTOS, courtesy of the "Newcastle City Council / City Libraries PHOTOSTREAM" - http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=barley%20mow&w=39821974%40N06

.

Interesting how the famous "Turners Photography Head Office" used to be "Henry Angus & Co Coach and Harness Makers"!!

and yes . . .

The Turners Photography building is still there. That was their Head Office building. Turners Photography had many photographic shops around the City Centre right through until the late 80s, early 90s, including at Grey's Monument and in the Eldon Square Shopping Centre. In fact, their big two-floor store in ES (on High Friars) was one of the original 'flagship stores' of Eldon Square, for many years. A very well known local firm, Turners Photography.

The Forth is a little way further up Pink Lane than Turners, I think their building is only a two-storey, and (interestingly) on the below photo from 1995, you can see exactly where the Forth is in relation to the Turners Photography building.

.

Had a walk along to Pink Lane today, long while since I was there. The buildings from Forth lane down to the bottom of Pink Lane have been purchased and restored by an organisation called SILICONE ALLEY and no house small units for a host of different, media, IT type business's.

The building that houses TURNERS is now renamed as NORTHUMBRIA WATER HOUSE so that must be a recent change.

The Forth Hotel has changed in its appearance and this is its current 'livery'.

Looking down towards the Central Station:
http://www.fototime.com/597330B5D1BEE4D/orig.jpg

From bottom of Pink Lane (Neville Street):
http://www.fototime.com/2955DC47FEF7080/orig.jpg

The Forth Hotel:
http://www.fototime.com/9C087AB6D6EC21D/orig.jpg

Interested in the Quayside late 80s. When I first ventured out there. Trying to remember what was there then.

Crown Posada (On the way down) There was the pub that was in Stormy Monday which has a different name now. The pub under the Tyne Bridge.

Was Offshore around back then? I seem to remember a pub down that way. The Coop further along and Hanrahans on the corner in the Watergate building.

Then the Barley Mow Rose and Crown and Egypt up along city Rd.

When did the Waterline open?

My memory is already going at 40!!!

Anyone point me to pix from that era?

Dan.

Hi Dan

40???, blimey, you must have had a hard paper round as a kid ;-)

The pub under the Tyne Bridge. - Got to be the NEWCASTLE ARMS, quaffed many a pint in there on a Sunday when the Quayside had a decent Sunday Market in the 1970's. Went on to be renamed as MUSE and now FEVER. Unsure as to whether it was called anything else between NEWCASTLE ARMS and MUSE. It was a good 'old fashioned' S&N Pub back then, back room for us with the juke box.

Here's a shot of the pub just in case your memory at 40 is starting to go. :)

http://www.fototime.com/39FCFD2E4A09BF6/orig.jpg

Barley Mow - Closed but building still there are renamed a couple of times
Rose and Crown - Demolished
Egypt - Demolished

Hi Dan

40???, blimey, you must have had a hard paper round as a kid ;-)

The pub under the Tyne Bridge. - Got to be the NEWCASTLE ARMS, quaffed many a pint in there on a Sunday when the Quayside had a decent Sunday Market in the 1970's. Went on to be renamed as MUSE and now FEVER. Unsure as to whether it was called anything else between NEWCASTLE ARMS and MUSE.

For a few years, the Newcastle Arms was called (delightfully) The Pump House!!

Interested in the Quayside late 80s. When I first ventured out there. Trying to remember what was there then.

When did the Waterline open?

Dan.


Where much of the Waterline is now, was originally the ground floor of a Bonded Warehouse, that was owned and run by Newcastle Warehousing Company Ltd, as an 'annexe' of their main Bonded Warehouse (that we have regularly discussed again recently on this Forum) on Hanover Street.

Part of the Waterline premises, in the same building, used to be a small pub called The Tyne, which closed in the 1960s.

See first two photos . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/AnnexeLovelane1970s1.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/AnnexeLovelane1980s.jpg

Now, as I used to work in the Newcastle Warehousing premises (as well as in Hanover Street) I know that the situation remained as in the above photos, through most of the 1980s, but either by the end of the 80s, or the very early 90s, the ground floor had become The Waterline.

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/Waterline.jpg

Originally, when the Waterline first opened, it was not called that all the way round the corner. The area around from the Quayside, heading towards City Road, was separately named, and run, as Moby Dicks Restaurant, though you could walk directly through to/from Moby Dicks from inside The Waterline.

Then the Barley Mow Rose and Crown and Egypt up along city Rd.

Anyone point me to pix from that era?

Dan.

Barley Mow was at one stage the FOG & FIRKIN

http://www.fototime.com/777F3DCAA237986/standard.jpg

Egypt Cottage (RIP)

http://www.fototime.com/691F6BF4DFA01E2/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/BC75A1CBC987229/orig.jpg

The pub under the Tyne Bridge. - Got to be the NEWCASTLE ARMS, quaffed many a pint in there on a Sunday when the Quayside had a decent Sunday Market in the 1970's. Went on to be renamed as MUSE and now FEVER. Unsure as to whether it was called anything else between NEWCASTLE ARMS and MUSE. It was a good 'old fashioned' S&N Pub back then, back room for us with the juke box.


Also known as the Pump House at one time.

Used to drink in the Newcastle Arms in the late 70's. Remember the large leather armchairs. Bliss.

GBDT

Ooops, just saw NH's earlier post :-)

Ah some memories there. The Newcastle Arms was one I forgot.

I had also forgotten just how big that warehosue was where the Tyne pub sat on the corner.

Wasn't there a massive row about that building and it standing in the way of Quayside redevelopment? There was a big fire there. I think all that happend when I was out of the NE for a brief 3 years.

The Rose and Crown was a strange drinker. Tyne Tees used to have fads in where they drank. Sometimes the Egypt was the in pub, other times we would have to cross City Rd to the Rose and Crown.

Were the Egypt and Barley Mow linked? I used to have a flyer on my bedroom door as an exiled Geordie in Uni at Hull. It advertised both pubs with a slogan like, "One great harmonker player, two great bars." Referring to the old guy who I guess was from the Sally Army that used to knock out tunes on the harp in the Barley Mow.

And Steve...hard paper round? it was tough in Tynemouth as a teenager!

The Barley Mow and the Egypt Cottage were both owned by Fred Plater, who now has The Tyne.

The Rose & Crown's manager, Jimmy Butterfield, was the most sarcastic bloke in town, but with a great sense of humour. He had a a sign behind the bar that said: "If the think the staff are uncivil you should see the mananger". And another one: "Drink our beer - you won't get better". He later ran the Crown Posada for a while.

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/899/49191182680207245123542.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/49191182680207245123542.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

'Quayside' George Vickers was the harmonica player. He was in his seventies when I took this picture around 1990, and I heard that he'd died recently in a nursing home in Walker in his late nineties. He was in the Barley Mow every night and never left without at least eight pints of beer onboard.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1889/49191182686047391123542.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/i/49191182686047391123542.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Ah some memories there. The Newcastle Arms was one I forgot.

I had also forgotten just how big that warehouse was where the Tyne pub sat on the corner.

Wasn't there a massive row about that building and it standing in the way of Quayside redevelopment? There was a big fire there. I think all that happend when I was out of the NE for a brief 3 years.

The Rose and Crown was a strange drinker. Tyne Tees used to have fads in where they drank. Sometimes the Egypt was the in pub, other times we would have to cross City Rd to the Rose and Crown.

Were the Egypt and Barley Mow linked? I used to have a flyer on my bedroom door as an exiled Geordie in Uni at Hull. It advertised both pubs with a slogan like, "One great harmonker player, two great bars." Referring to the old guy who I guess was from the Sally Army that used to knock out tunes on the harp in the Barley Mow.

And Steve...hard paper round? it was tough in Tynemouth as a teenager!

Hi Dan

What links 'redevelopment', 'old buildings' and 'quayside'? - MYSTERIOUS TYNESIDE FIRES of course!
The warehouse that was to the West of Love Lane was the subject of a blaze in 1989 which led to its subsequent demolition. So that part of the development is 'new' - its the bit closest to the Law Courts.

Not 100% sure but I have a feeling that in the 1980's the Barley Mow and the Egypt Cottage may have been owned by the same person. A mate of mine worked as a Chef at the Barley Mow and I've sent him a mail asking if he knows.

A REAL story about the ROSE and CROWN - as you will know there were two ROSE AND CROWNS within very close proximity, one of City Road and the other on Walker Road.
Well one day the Manager of the Walker Road hostelry turned up to find a gang of painters busily painting the outside of the Pub. He enquired as to what they were about as he hadn't been told by the Brewery (probably Vaux in those days) that the repaint was going to happen.
So the next day when they had painted half of the exterior, they realised that they were at the wrong Pub - yes. they should have been at CITY ROAD. Of course they had to finish the job and Vaux got their Pub painted for nothing.

Another thing about the Walker Road ROSE and CROWN, it was briefly renamed as PIPS and was BYKERS first and only Gay Bar.

Tough in Tynemouth, perhaps when you wear rose tinted spectacles, or when you are looking through the bottom of your 6th pint :cheers:

Another thing about the Walker Road ROSE and CROWN, it was briefly renamed as PIPS and was BYKERS first and only Gay Bar.


Please tell me this then became the 'Fighting Cocks' then! Always did wonder about the name of that place.... :lol:

Please tell me this then became the 'Fighting Cocks' then! Always did wonder about the name of that place.... :lol:

Just in case that wasn't just a joke.......

The Fighting Cocks used to be over the road from the Rose & Crown site (Now apartments) on Albion Row and is now offices.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Newcastle+Upon+Tyne,+NE1+4BA,+UK&aq=0&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=14.410453,43.022461&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Newcastle+Upon+Tyne,+Tyne+And+Wear+NE1+4BA,+United+Kingdom&ll=54.971801,-1.58643&spn=0.001706,0.005252&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=54.971889,-1.586386&panoid=COth1KszVCak1nyBpFIRoQ&cbp=12,96.19,,0,-14.86

Graham56 commented in the VICTORIA Tunnel, QUAYSIDE RAILWAY Tunnel – and other “subterranean” Newcastle Thread : There was allegedly a tunnel that ran from Bourgognes pub to St Andrews Church.

Indeed there is a 'tale' connected with that particular tunnel - at the time Burgoynes was using its cellars as a Jail and it is claimed that condemned prisoners would be taken across to St Andrews for the Last Sacrament before execution at the WHITE CROSS.

Here's a cutting that I have which dates from 1972 - unsure as to which newspaper it came from. The cuttings are from a collection kept by JACK PHILLIPS and very kindly given to me by his son, Geoff.

http://www.fototime.com/356F5F24C3D7636/orig.jpg

Please tell me this then became the 'Fighting Cocks' then! Always did wonder about the name of that place.... :lol:

Or at one stage known named rather ostentatiously as YE OLDE FIGHTING COCKS

I remember the guy that ran the Rose and Crown and the Crown Posada. His wife was called Mary I think?

When he died I recall he made the national papers becuase the world Bollocks was written in flowers on his hearse.

The picture of the harmonica man brings it all back now. I'm getting the urge to dress like Don Johnson and buy a ton of hair gel while talking on my Motarola Brick Phone - though I don't really have the hair or figure for it these days and my iPhone is smaller and lighter.

The pub painting story was a bit of a legend at Tyne Tees. Good to hear it confirmed.

Thanks for the photos and replies people.

Dan.

Can anyone cast their minds back to the 1970's and recall the RED BARREL that was located in the ROYAL STATION HOTEL building, accessible from NEVILLE STREET it is where the EMPIRE RESTAURANT is now located.

Goes with the name but it did sell WATNEYS RED BARREL and in the 1970's was considered a 'trendy bar' with its tables and chairs fashioned from barrels. One memory of the place was the awful beer and the black and red theme.

This is a shot of the place well after it ceased to be the RED BARREL

http://www.fototime.com/6846B6C3DB531C9/standard.jpg

Can anyone cast their minds back to the 1970's and recall the RED BARREL that was located in the ROYAL STATION HOTEL building, accessible from NEVILLE STREET it is where the EMPIRE RESTAURANT is now located.

Goes with the name but it did sell WATNEYS RED BARREL and in the 1970's was considered a 'trendy bar' with its tables and chairs fashioned from barrels. One memory of the place was the awful beer and the black and red theme.

This is a shot of the place well after it ceased to be the RED BARREL

http://www.fototime.com/6846B6C3DB531C9/standard.jpg

When was this taken? The building to the right is now "North Bar" I believe, it still looks vacant and for sale in this photo. :)

When was this taken? The building to the right is now "North Bar" I believe, it still looks vacant and for sale in this photo. :)

Taken in the 1980's when the entrance way with the cover was what I remember as being the EMPIRE BAR? - I'm sure the former BRITISH RAIL TICKET OFFICE was up for let at that stage - that's the entrance way a little higher up in the shot.

Here's a frontal shot
http://www.fototime.com/F7168E12C50C873/orig.jpg

Taken in the 1980's when the entrance way with the cover was what I remember as being the EMPIRE BAR? - I'm sure the former BRITISH RAIL TICKET OFFICE was up for let at that stage - that's the entrance way a little higher up in the shot.


Ah yes, the current "NORTH BAR" is in what used to be the Ticket office for the trains. I wonder when North bar opened...?

http://www.northbarnewcastle.com/index2.htm

Was that the bar that is now Tokyo? I see from the 1894 & 1914 OS maps that it has "always" been a Public House.

Record of the BLACK BULL'S HEAD on that site (17 Westgate Road) and in the late 19th Century was rebuilt as the MIDLAND TAVERN, later to be renamed as MIDLAND HOTEL. Names since then have included RIKKS and BERLINS.

Well used in the 1950's by visitors to the nearby SEAMAN'S UNION and shipping firms, so much so that it is said to have become an unofficial employment exchange for seamen.

Appears to have been owned by both REIDS and NEWCASTLE BREWERIES during its lifetime.

Source : Brian Bennison's "Heady Days - A History of Newcastle's Public Houses Volume 1 The Central Area"

My own memories of the place from the 1970's was that it was well out of the way, tucked away as it was in the lower reaches of Westgate Road. Think I was only in there once, small place, typical boozers spit and sawdust pub, wooden uncovered floors, selling Bass.

The Midland was a Watney's house, I think, with a very small but pleasant front room popular with schoolboys revising for their exams in the Lit and Phil. I remember it well. I was that schoolboy.


The Midland.

That name brings back many memories.

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/BrewersandBottlers1.jpg

I have a photo somewhere, but can't find it right now, the above will have to do.

When I worked round the corner in Hanover Street in the 1970s and 1980s, the Midland was a very popular haunt for us. A really great 'basic' pub, and we got to know Bel, the landlady, very well.

In those days the licencing hours still had pubs closing at 3.00 in the afternoon, and opening again at 5.30. We had many lock-ins, to fill in those 'difficult hours', when we decided to stay out for the afternoon!

I remember during one lock-in, my mate (who was 'well away') when Bel was bending down behind him to clear away some glasses, made the mistake of f**ting in her face!! She was not amused, and came up with the immortal line of "When this place OPENS you're OOT", which I have never forgotten!

One other occasion we were knocking on the window, during closed hours, to get in, not knowing Bel was not there, and we were very insistent . . . until this bloke opened the door with a shotgun in his hand!

Happy days . . .

When it closed in the mid eighties, it was converted into a very different place, a winebar called Berlins.

. . . small place, typical boozers spit and sawdust pub, wooden uncovered floors, selling Bass.

And there we were in the snug working on our Latin and Greek unseens over a half of Scotch.

The Midland.

That name brings back many memories.

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/BrewersandBottlers1.jpg

I have a photo somewhere, but can't find it right now, the above will have to do.

When I worked round the corner in Hanover Street in the 1970s and 1980s, the Midland was a very popular haunt for us. A really great 'basic' pub, and we got to know Bel, the landlady, very well.

In those days the licencing hours still had pubs closing at 3.00 in the afternoon, and opening again at 5.30. We had many lock-ins, to fill in those 'difficult hours', when we decided to stay out for the afternoon!

I remember during one lock-in, my mate (who was 'well away') when Bel was bending down behind him to clear away some glasses, made the mistake of f**ting in her face!! She was not amused, and came up with the immortal line of "When this place OPENS you're OOT", which I have never forgotten!

One other occasion we were knocking on the window, during closed hours, to get in, not knowing Bel was not there, and we were very insistent . . . until this bloke opened the door with a shotgun in his hand!

Happy days . . .

When it closed in the mid eighties, it was converted into a very different place, a winebar called Berlins.


^^

Not exactly the one I was looking for, but you can just make out The Midland on this photo, to the right of the old Parcels Shed . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/MidlandPH.jpg

originally posted by tameracingdriver

Historic Pub is ready for new year facelift

Taken from: http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-east-news/evening-chronicle-news/2010/12/28/historic-pub-is-ready-for-new-year-facelift-72703-27896830/

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/nechronical/dec2010/2/6/rosie-s-bar-644357940.jpg

ONE of Tyneside’s most famous pubs aims to stay ahead of the game with a £150,000 facelift.

Rosie’s Bar on Stowell Street is popular with football fans, locals and foreign visitors with many coming to admire its famous moving heads.

New owner, well-known Tyneside pub entrepreneur Harry Costigan, has unveiled plans to restore the bar to its former glory.

Costigan has contracted specialist Newcastle-based interior design company Fluid Design Solutions to breathe new life into Rosie’s.

Fluid design director David King said: “Rosie’s Bar has always been a favourite with the football crowd on match days and regulars living around the Blackfriars area, but interestingly, it has recently found its way into the list of ‘must see’ places for tourists visiting the city – particularly those from Scandinavia – in their quest for a traditional British pub.

“Bearing in mind people’s affection for the pub, it is quite a delicate design brief because we are conscious of not wishing to spoil what is already there. But over recent years, it would be fair to say that Rosie’s advanced years have been creeping up on her, so we will be giving her a bit of a facelift during February.

“The moving heads on the back bar line are very well known, but have not been working properly for some time, so we will be giving them the kiss of life, not just by fixing their motors, but by bringing the characters to life in Rosie’s story, which tells the tale of Rosie O’Shea’s life and the origins of her famous hostelry.”

Costigan, who owns the Leopard Leisure Leased pub company operators of the Queen Victoria in Gosforth and The Hotspur on Percy Street, Newcastle, said: “The main objective of the facelift is not to take away the quality that is already in place in Rosie’s but to add to it.

“We will be introducing a cosier colour scheme, special effects artwork and, crucially, new feature lighting to the windows and ceiling, all combining to create a warm and welcoming environment for patrons to enjoy into the new decade.

“The refurbishment work will not begin until well after the Christmas period.

“It is business as usual until then.”


This is the story from the Chronicle website story. Al Reetson might know whether this is kosher or simply from the PR machine.

ROSIE O’Shea was born in the village of Ballyogan, Ireland, on February 8, 1851.

Rosie’s dad Patrick was in poor health so he sent her off to England with her aunt, uncle and cousin Bert to find a better life.

They set up home on Newcastle’s Quayside where bare-knuckle fighter Bertie was taken under the wing of a local character known as a Mr Alexander.

He also took a shining to Rosie and they opened a tavern where Rosie’s on Stowell Street now stands.

Rosie began to earn a great reputation, not only from her nightly singing performances, but from selling much more than ale!

In 1874 Alexander was attacked and stabbed to death for his bag of coins and watch. Rosie went into deep depression and one morning a lodger at the tavern went to see if Rosie was alright, but she had fled.

Five years later an Irish immigrant, who had left Newcastle, arrived at the Ellis Island immigration arrival hall in New York when he heard a familiar voice singing an Irish song.

There was Rosie O’Shea – standing on a wooden trunk singing her heart out to the Irish masses.

But he was knocked over in the crush and by the time he had recovered Rosie had gone. To this day nobody knows what happened to Rosie O’Shea but her legacy lives on in the Newcastle tavern bearing her name.


This story sounds a little too... slick for an old cynic like me, but you never know.


A bit more about Rosie's Bar from 1988 . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/Rosies-July8th19886.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/Rosies-July8th19882.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/Rosies-July8th19883.jpg

Thanks for that Graham. So that is what someone meant when they said the original Bacchus? I thought they meant the one on the same site as the present one, as it was either moved slightly or knocked down and built up again unless I'm completely making that up!

The Greenmarket was pretty impressive wasn't it, shame about it going (twice now!) pity they couldn't have reworked those frontages into the new build.

F

Really amazing when you think that Bourgognes was allowed to be demolished as part of the 1971 building of Eldon Square as it dated from at least 1634.

A 'new' pub under the name of Bourgognes opened up a little further to the South of Newgate Street in 1988 - a 'pale' imitation just seizing the name and nothing else from the original pub. This is the new one:

http://www.fototime.com/%7B56F8E30E-9E1F-45A6-8CA8-602C321975F7%7D/origpict/132-132-BOURGOGNES%2520PUB.JPG

^^

The original, seen in 1964 . . .

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2789/4081676364_c28edb4675_o.jpg

PHOTO courtesy of Newcastle City Council / City Libraries PHOTOSTREAM - http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/

^^

The original, seen in 1964 . . .

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2789/4081676364_c28edb4675_o.jpg

PHOTO courtesy of Newcastle City Council / City Libraries PHOTOSTREAM - http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/

330 years old then?

Wasn't it the house of the warden of Newgate Prison?

I wonder what happened with all those bottles when it was demolished?

F

The Greyhound (Formerly The Milburn) on Pitt Street is going through a re-furb.

Looks like it's been shut for ages, but work appears well underway on the bar area at least.

http://www.entertainment-newcastle.com/images/greyhound20110211_1.jpg

http://www.entertainment-newcastle.com/images/greyhound20110211_2.jpg

http://www.entertainment-newcastle.com/images/greyhound20110211_3.jpg

http://www.entertainment-newcastle.com/images/greyhound20110211_4.jpg

The Greyhound (Formerly The Milburn) on Pitt Street is going through a re-furb.

Looks like it's been shut for ages, but work appears well underway on the bar area at least.
]

Good to see the Pub springing back to life and hopefully with ongoing construction in that area it will get plenty of patronage.

Couple of shots here when it was The Milburn.

http://www.fototime.com/2D1D72FBE1DD9B9/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/5EAD19C235F1694/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/60784D08CB817FC/orig.jpg

This might be an easy one,but here goes :)

1. Where is this Pub?
2. What is the significance about the photograph?

http://www.fototime.com/510D81B7ACAD868/orig.jpg

I've been reading the posts about the Royal George with interest, so thought that some of you might be interested in the newspaper report I came across by chance yesterday when I was doing some work in the local studies library. It seems the pub's construction was as controversial as its demolition!

The Journal 8 July 1963 p1

ESTATE FIGHT TO WARD OFF PUBLIC HOUSE
By Journal Reporter

Residents at Brunton Park, near Gosforth, are circulating a petition to foil a brewery’s plan to build a public house on their estate. Scottish and Newcastle Breweries put up a ten-foot notice announcing their decision at the weekend.

People living on the fashionable estate are protesting that:-
* Property values will fall drastically;
* Undesirable patrons will lower the estate’s tone;
* Late-night revellers will keep children awake;
* There is no demand for a public house - residents drink either in the country or at home.

The one acre site for the public house is at the junction of Greenfield Road and Princes Road. Next to it are the popular St Aidan’s parish church, the community centre and a shopping precinct. Mr J A Woodcock, a paint salesman, whose newly-built detached house overlooks the site, said last night: “Almost everyone on the estate is against it. Property values will tumble because few will want to buy houses beside a public house.”

‘Lower tone’
“My two children’s bedroom overlooks what will be the car park and they will never get to sleep with the crashing of car doors.” A Gosforth fish trader, Mr D W Lilburn, said: “This is a quiet residential area. We have our set drinking habits and I’m sure few of us would use the public house. Outsiders pouring in on a Saturday night could be ruinous.” Mr William Inglis, of Kirkwood Place, said: “I have no objection to a public house provided it is in good taste. There were also plans for a school here, but nothing came of them. The pub, however, seems to be reaching the stage of reality.”

Permission
Mr James Hilton, chairman of North Gosforth Parish Council, which meets in the community centre said: “The notice announcing the brewery’s intention to build was erected at the request of the council. We know that the brewery intend to build a public house there. They have planning permission. It was originally intended to call it The Flying Saucer. That shows how long ago the idea was first put forward.”

[End of story]

This might be an easy one,but here goes :)

1. Where is this Pub?
2. What is the significance about the photograph?

http://www.fototime.com/510D81B7ACAD868/orig.jpg

Hi Guys

Thought someone would know the answer but unless you have been to either of the two pubs involved you wouldn't recognise the "feature" :)

Answers:

1. CUNMBERLAND ARMS - Byker
2. The actual bar was previoulsy installed in the HAYMARKET HOTEL which was demolished a long while ago. The bar is upstairs in the CUMBERLAND.

I use the "tease" when telling folk that I had a pint at the HAYMARKET HOTEL bar last night.

http://www.fototime.com/CF9F182830EAA7B/orig.jpg

The other little 'story' that I like to tell about the CUMBERLAND is that you can see HADRIANS WALL in the gents toilet of the pub. It's a fact that the Roman Wall runs through the Ouseburn Valley and very possibly close to the pub. Anyway there is a course of stone masonry in the toilet wall that could well be part of the Roman Wall (wishful thinking). Photograph below:

http://www.fototime.com/567EE6C2689684D/orig.jpg

^^

A good question!

I don't think I've ever been in the Cumberland Arms, though I had certainly been in the Haymarket a fair few times.

It wasn't one of 'our' pubs though, so I wasn't in that often and didn't regognise the bar area! One thing about the bar photo you showed that had occurred to me (that was sort of 'on the way' to the answer) was that it looked like a re-located bar, but I thought it was probably in someones front room!!! (not in another pub).

I had been wishing it was that and (specifically) that it was the bar from The Burton House (next to the old BBC, where I did used spend half my life). I remember looking at the bar area there and thinking how great it was.

Having said that, if it had been the bar from the Burton House, then I still probably wouldn't have really recognised it!

As I said, good question!

Some photos of the damaged Barley Mow/Stereo pub taken on 22/02/2011.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5016/5469265341_310bbcf5a2_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5300/5469266441_2dfbb9d98d_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5294/5469267743_963f3dda34_z.jpg
GBDT2011

Cheers

GBDT

It was a nice conversion. Given that it s been closed for quite some time I d say it's most likely to be replaced by a vacant building plot, followed by office or an apartment block.


Such a sad loss of a very historic building, with a long history.

A long history of survival and re-invention, as all else changed around it.

The history is shown here, earlier in this thread. I'm sure there must be other photos around . . .


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=73027637&postcount=23


Irreplaceable.

Such a sad loss of a very historic building, with a long history.

A long history of survival and re-invention, as all else changed around it.

The history is shown here, earlier in this thread. I'm sure there must be other photos around . . .

Irreplaceable.

There is this one, (no date though!)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5299/5470407405_04702d4b6e_z.jpg
P&T Image Archive, NCC

Cheers
GBDT

In mitigation [and there isn t much] it was pretty much finished of when it was 'Firkin-ed' before the last lot got their hands on it.

I was regular in the Mow for many years before Tetley took it over. Fred bought the bar - which had been trading briefly and unsuccessfully as a French restaurant - for £40k in the early 1980s, and sold it to Tetley in the early 1990s for £850k. During that time he had built it into one of Newcastle's busiest bars, shifting more beer on a weekend than most Bigg Market pubs - but unlike them it remained very busy throughout the week as well.

Tetley couldn't believe their luck, and were convinced they could improve on this. Fred's staff were mainly students from Keelmen's ands Garth Heads over the road, who brought load of their mates in. Tetley got shot of Fred's staff, and employed 'professionals'. So students stopped drinking there.

Then they changed its name to the Fog & Firkin and filled it with random brewery tat (canoes, phone boxes etc), which scared off the rest of the regulars. So it was literally dead in the water when Rob Cameron bought it off them to feed his Shindig nights at Foundation. He spent over a million quid removing every trace of the quirkiness and character that had made the Barley Mow so popular.

The Barley Mow did a roaring trade with the students who lived over the road. There are now thousands more students living within a short walk of the pub than there were back then, and had it been left alone it would still be packed every night. Fred can't be blamed for accepting Tetley's ridiculous offer for it. The reason it's in its current sorry state is because Fred's idea was so simple that Tetley's business people over-analysed into oblivion.

So yes, it was totally knackered as a business by the time Rob Cameron bought it, but he caused as much damage to the building and its prospects of ever being a decent and busy pub again, as the recent fire has.

Anyone got any history on the Bridge Hotel on the Newcastle side of the High Level Bridge?

Anyone got any history on the Bridge Hotel on the Newcastle side of the High Level Bridge?

The following information will be of interest . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/BridgeHotelhistory.jpg

The above narrative is from "Heady Days: A History of Newcastle's Public Houses, Volume One - The Central Area" - a BOOK by Brian Bennison.


If you would like more information about The Bridge, and many of the other old public houses of Newcastle, there has recently been published (on the "Books" Thread) a list of books that are available on the subject . . .

The "Public Houses of Newcastle and the North East" Series . .
54. Tyneside PUBS: Past & Present - Geoff Phillips/Jack Phillips
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=62893265&postcount=91
55. Old Pubs of Newcastle - Geoff Phillips
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=63183857&postcount=92
56. Inn Guide to the North East 1984 - Newcastle Inns
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=63575783&postcount=93
57. Heady Days, A History of Newcastle's Public Houses: Volume One (The Central Area) - Brian Bennison
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=63934015&postcount=95
58. Heavy Nights, A History of Newcastle's Public Houses: Volume Two (The North and East) - Brian Bennison
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=64343661&postcount=98
59. Lost Weekends, A History of Newcastle's Public Houses: Volume Three (The West) - Brian Bennison
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=64749055&postcount=101
60. Scotswood Road Pubs - Jimmy Forsyth
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=65114719&postcount=107
61. Tyneside's Bygone Boozers - Geoff Phillips
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=65496047&postcount=110
62. Brewers & Bottlers of Newcastle upon Tyne, from 1850 to the present day - Brian Bennison
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=65928229&postcount=112
63. The Northumbrian Pub, an Architectural History - Lynn F Pearson
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=66268607&postcount=114
64. The Burglars Dog: Alternative Guide to Drinking in Newcastle upon Tyne - Mark Jones
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=66630759&postcount=115
END of series.


(The above is reproduced here, from the INDEX Thread).

The following information will be of interest . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/BridgeHotelhistory.jpg

The above narrative is from "Heady Days: A History of Newcastle's Public Houses, Volume One - The Central Area" - a BOOK by Brian Bennison.


Interesting that Brian has the present building as built in 1901. Pesvner has it down as circa 1899 to a design by Cackett, Burns Dick. He describes it as anattractive art nouveau public house - however Grace McCombie in her Newcastle and Gateshead - Pesvner Architectural Guides does agree with the 1901 date.

http://www.fototime.com/57F9444AC2E15CD/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/DE7334FE6E7A9B9/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/67C4C211749CB0C/orig.jpg

In my opinion one of the BETTER Newcastle Pubs.

^^

Not exactly the one I was looking for, but you can just make out The Midland on this photo, to the right of the old Parcels Shed . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%202/MidlandPH.jpg

As an update, these shots were taken on 1st February 2011 and show the present occupants TOKYO bar :

http://www.fototime.com/6D980F202C8986B/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/2437B94AD8D212A/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/A2383283ACAFAA4/orig.jpg

11th March 2011

http://www.entertainment-newcastle.com/images/barleymow20110311_1.jpg

http://www.entertainment-newcastle.com/images/barleymow20110311_2.jpg

http://www.entertainment-newcastle.com/images/barleymow20110311_3.jpg

Excellent photos Stamford, as always, but how sad to see the Barley Mow like that.

After all this time, and after all the "times" that will have gone on there and after all the changes around it that it has somehow manged to survive.

What a great shame.


HERE it is, in 1920 . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/BarleyMow-1920.jpg

Excellent photos Stamford, as always, but how sad to see the Barley Mow like that.

After all this time, and after all the "times" that will have gone on there and after all the changes around it that it has somehow manged to survive.

What a great shame.


HERE it is, in 1920 . . .

Regarding the blurb accompanying the picture: The original pub was called 'Barley Mow & Sailor's Boarding House', and the 'new' Barley Mow reverted to being a pub in September 1982, not the 1990s. It was known locally as 'Timlins', that being the name of the family who ran it from around 1900 to 1940.

The Barley Mow is mentioned in a song from 1830 called 'Newcastle Landlords', and also features in 'The Horrid War i' Sangeyt', by J.P. Robson, commemorating a violent uprising in that part of town on May 11th, 1851.

The Quayside's Irish community fought a pitched battle with the keelmen in Sandgate, having become riled by an unrecorded comment from a Protestant street preacher. According to a journalist at the time, "The avowed object of the rioters was to take possession of the area. One of the expressions used by the ringleaders was 'By Jasus, we'll take Sandgate tonight'."

Over 200 Irishmen ran from alleys with pokers, tongs, coal rakes and other readily available weapons, while their women and lads accompanied them with brickbats and missiles, "shouting in a hideous manner."

The constabulary was called to the scene and the keelmen's wives launched a ferocious counter-attack with their rolling pins. Their menfolk rallied and the tale is taken up in Robson's song:

"The landlords joined the jolly row,
Bob Carr got help frae Barley Mow,
Moor put his Steam Boat cheps in tow,
An' a' wes waar i' Sangyt."

"By the combined exertions of the police and the English the Irish were overcome, and those who escaped decamped from the scene of destruction and left town the next morning," the journalist told his readers.

The Barley Mow was also one of the few buildings to survive the cholera epidemic that swept through the area in two years later, hastened by the appalling sanitation. Thirty-three streets were found to be without drains or sewers in the vicinity of the Barley Mow, which prompted large-scale demolition of the slum dwellings on Sandgatey.

As NH says, there have certainly been some 'times' at the Barley Mow, and it's tragic to see it now, in its third century, in such a pitiful state.

I never knew the building had so much history... The idea of it being hauled down in favour of some cheap, characterless glass-and-steel box is appalling.

I never knew the building had so much history... The idea of it being hauled down in favour of some cheap, characterless glass-and-steel box is appalling.

I'm sure this will have been asked before, but is there any sort of listing on the original structure ?

I'm sure this will have been asked before, but is there any sort of listing on the original structure ?

Not Listed - marked as having historical importance only.

I suppose that there isn't a lot of the original building left now, external walls and that will probably be all.

Not Listed - marked as having historical importance only.

I suppose that there isn't a lot of the original building left now, external walls and that will probably be all.

Round the corner from me. Walls and charred roof timbers, though the Battlestar Galactica extension is [regrettably] untouched.

Go me thinking - it was always alleged that when the Sports Cafe [now the Milecastle] was first being converted the [then] owners asked for permission to make massive internal alterations, permission refused.

In a wholly unrelated event a bulldozer carelessly caused the building to collapse. Permission to rebuild in a more convenient layout requested. Refused and told to effectively put it back as it was. It may be apocryphal, but if true ....tee hee !

Wouldn't it be nice if.... [though fat chance].

Legal notice The precceding is in no way to suggest that anything remotely improper occurred in either event, any similarity to any other MQF is wholly coincidental. But if Warsaw can be rebuilt with 80% as rubble it's not too much to ask to put the odd pub back as was...is it ? :cheers:

Round the corner from me. Walls and charred roof timbers, though the Battlestar Galactica extension is [regrettably] untouched.

Go me thinking - it was always alleged that when the Sports Cafe [now the Milecastle] was first being converted the [then] owners asked for permission to make massive internal alterations, permission refused.

In a wholly unrelated event a bulldozer carelessly caused the building to collapse. Permission to rebuild in a more convenient layout requested. Refused and told to effectively put it back as it was. It may be apocryphal, but if true ....tee hee !

Wouldn't it be nice if.... [though fat chance].

Legal notice The precceding is in no way to suggest that anything remotely improper occurred in either event, any similarity to any other MQF is wholly coincidental. But if Warsaw can be rebuilt with 80% as rubble it's not too much to ask to put the odd pub back as was...is it ? :cheers:

What surprised me from some of the photographs posted was the fact that windows and doors were simply covered with ply board - wonder why stronger precautions to prevent entry weren't taken? - thinking here about the way in which Councils now protect their empty properties with heavy gauge metal screens.

http://home.freeuk.net/timarchive2/assets/images/Lanes_St_John_La.jpg

St Johns Lane, 2001 (Courtesy of Tim Pickford-Jones) off the west side of the Bigg Market, it's now I believe part of City Vaults. Anyone know why the council allowed them to cover and close off a very attractive lane.

Shocking that really. I don't remember the lane but terrible closing a part of a right of way for a bar.

Shocking that really. I don't remember the lane but terrible closing a part of a right of way for a bar.

They cleaned up the stonework on the buildings in the 1970s and cobbled the road surface over and put the ornamental bollards and lamposts in, in the very early 1980s.

In the view as you look at it in this new photo . . .

http://home.freeuk.net/timarchive2/assets/images/Lanes_St_John_La.jpg

. . . there was a door just out of shot on the right, that led you to the (then) new City Vaults Wine Bar. It was a basement bar only (you went down a flight of stairs to the left for the winebar and to the right for the restaurant) and they had a lovely barmaid there who was 'the spit' of Debbie Harry of Blondie!

Down the far end (in the photo) on the left, was another bar, at ground level this time, called Bramz & Liszt. That, like City Vaults, was another typical 'Joe Robertson' Wine Bar.

We discussed this lane previously on January 26th 2010 (with a photo looking the other way) . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/CityVaultsLane.jpg

. . . on the General Knowledge thread, here - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=50806731&postcount=382

As part of that 'quiz question', I showed the below list of Joe Robertson's various bars, from the 1980s, which includes both of those (mentioned above) from on City Vaults Lane (as I knew it at the time) which is known to elliot (correctly I'm sure) as St John's Lane. . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/51980sCityCentreBars.jpg

I can remember the City Vaults of the late 1970's and it certainly wasn't what you could call a "cocktail bar" then - it was one of the "rougher" bars in the Town, full of what I would call "plonkies".:bash:

It was called the Royal Court Grill until about 1980, when it became the City Vaults. We used to go to the live jazz sessions on Sunday lunchtimes at the Vaults when it first opened and they did a nice dinner, which was a far cry from the Grill, which I also visited a few times. I have a photo of my grandad and his workmates drinking there in the 1950s.

There was a story in the press at the time that during the conversion several sets of leg-irons and manacles were found in a room beneath the pub (there was a picture of them), which it was claimed had been used to 'detain' drunken sailors until they either sobered up the following morning and were released, or were collected by their captain.

I also used the Indian restaurant as well, I seem to remember it was up a flight of stairs on the left, looking down the lane.

It was called the Royal Court Grill until about 1980, when it became the City Vaults. We used to go to the live jazz sessions on Sunday lunchtimes at the Vaults when it first opened and they did a nice dinner, which was a far cry from the Grill, which I also visited a few times. I have a photo of my grandad and his workmates drinking there in the 1950s.

There was a story in the press at the time that during the conversion several sets of leg-irons and manacles were found in a room beneath the pub (there was a picture of them), which it was claimed had been used to 'detain' drunken sailors until they either sobered up the following morning and were released, or were collected by their captain.

I also used the Indian restaurant as well, I seem to remember it was up a flight of stairs on the left, looking down the lane.

Yes of course it was the Royal Court Grill - I always thought it was such a 'fancy' name for the type of bar it was.

Knowing the type of clientèle that it used attract I would imagine that the bondage gear in the cellar might have attracted an 'hourly rate' :nuts:

It was called the Royal Court Grill until about 1980, when it became the City Vaults. We used to go to the live jazz sessions on Sunday lunchtimes at the Vaults when it first opened and they did a nice dinner, which was a far cry from the Grill, which I also visited a few times. I have a photo of my grandad and his workmates drinking there in the 1950s.

There was a story in the press at the time that during the conversion several sets of leg-irons and manacles were found in a room beneath the pub (there was a picture of them), which it was claimed had been used to 'detain' drunken sailors until they either sobered up the following morning and were released, or were collected by their captain.

I also used the Indian restaurant as well, I seem to remember it was up a flight of stairs on the left, looking down the lane.

You're reet son :) and the snooker hall was on the floor above.

You're reet son :) and the snooker hall was on the floor above.

According to Kelly's Directory of 1968 the lane is simply described as Royal Court Buildings and contains:

Sloan's Royal Billiards Rooms
B&L Roberts & Sons LTD - Linoleum Factors
Yatton Furniture LTD
Elper Products - Handbag Maunufacturers
Royal Court Grill
Taj Mahal Restaurant

Are these photos of both ends of the lane?

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5016/5540814921_d2f90892f2_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5094/5540808579_24c788d9d4_z.jpg
Both photos P&T Image Archive, Newcastle City Council

Cheers
GBDT


Yes, they are. Excellent!

It is from a time before the lane was cobbled over and fitted with ornamental bollards and lamposts down the middle. In other words, before Joe Robertson opened Brahms & Liszt and City Vaults down there in the very early 1980s.

The building stonework is clean though, so it looks like those photos are probably mid/late 1970s.

The likelihood is that something much (or even a bit) better will open in its place, so there will be jobs, and an important and prominent city centre site is not occupied by a dive.

Yes, I didn't go there more than a few times, but something like the original "Bar 55" would be good . . .

Here it is as Bar 55 . .

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2710/4132299458_7eab91d45a_o.jpg


Except, if that type of place failed once (Like I said about myself, "people not going there more than a few times") then there could be problems like that again (poor turnover) in the future.

Bar 55 looked nice from that picture it's just a shame I never got to see it.

Great news about Linikers closing, I didn't believe how bad that place was until I experienced it and when I finally tried it there was more bouncers than customers :lol:

Good news about The Duke of Wellington (ugh) too, I always thought that pub deserved to be something more.

Here's a better picture!

http://www.graeme-peacock.com/imgcache/large/769-AF89E8BBDA83111771AD00DAB059E814.jpg


Source:
http://www.graeme-peacock.com/imagedetails.asp?id=769

Do you think this is a better view of Linikers?

http://www.fototime.com/FBEC6DE2514D8AA/orig.jpg


It's an improvement on 'Linekers' (that's for sure) though not necessarily from when it was first 'Bar 55'!

When was that photo taken Steve?

Was it when Swan House was recently converted to 55 Degrees North, or was it when the 'false' Royal Arcade was first being constructed inside Swan House, when it was being built originally?

Great photo mind!

It's an improvement on 'Linekers' (that's for sure) though not necessarily from when it was first 'Bar 55'!

When was that photo taken Steve?

Was it when Swan House was recently converted to 55 Degrees North, or was it when the 'false' Royal Arcade was first being constructed inside Swan House, when it was being built originally?

Great photo mind!

Hi NH

It was taken in May 2002 when 55 Degrees North was being 'constructed' = some more take of the building as it was converted @ http://www.fototime.com/inv/1FDB8143CABC200

Seeing the Chillingham Arms mentioned on the pubs thread prompts:

What was it originally called?

Not certain, but was that the one that used to be called The East End Hotel?

That's the one, NH. As patronised by poor Mrs Kiddar in Kiddar's Luck.

^^

A bit more research leads me to . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/EastEndHotela.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/EastEndHotel.jpg


Above information obtained from the book Heavy Nights: A History of Newcastle's Public Houses Volume Two (The North & East), by Brian Bennison.

This book was reviewed on our Books Thread here - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=64343661&postcount=98

Regarding the blurb accompanying the picture: The original pub was called 'Barley Mow & Sailor's Boarding House', and the 'new' Barley Mow reverted to being a pub in September 1982, not the 1990s. It was known locally as 'Timlins', that being the name of the family who ran it from around 1900 to 1940.



Thought this might be of interest - its from the Jack Phillips cuttings collection and is from a 1977 publication called PUB CRAWL.

http://www.fototime.com/9487F0775DFD190/orig.jpg

Thought this might be of interest - its from the Jack Phillips cuttings collection and is from a 1977 publication called PUB CRAWL.

http://www.fototime.com/9487F0775DFD190/orig.jpg

Wow, love re warning on Theakstons and the references to the Baltic [which has been my local for many years, though only from Bonded warehouse onwards].

I did visit it as the Baltic Tavern as the Baltic occasionally when working on Dean Street - that would have been in the 80s, when it had a reputation. I seem to remember stories of someone being shot but amazingly the every customer was looking in the other direction and never saw a thing

"the character Heaton had had in the past for moral perfection and purity."

A long, long time in the past....

This article from the Newcastle Evening Chronicle of November 1979:

http://www.fototime.com/000A4D1499C0EF8/orig.jpg

Top of the Crows Nest on Percy Street/Barras Bridge?

Nice one Elliott :)

http://www.fototime.com/9BBCEC509621C40/orig.jpg

A quick question . . .

Since the ground floor of this building (which was closed for many, many years) re-opened as a pub in the late 1980s (I think it was) it has had a fair few different names.

Anyone know what they are, and roughly what were the dates for each name?

A quick question . . .

Since the ground floor of this building (which was closed for many, many years) re-opened as a pub in the late 1980s (I think it was) it has had a fair few different names.

Anyone know what they are, and roughly what were the dates for each name?

Not sure of the dates but in my time it has been Bar Oz and then INVENTIONS.

Inventions was in existence in 1995.

Not sure of the dates but in my time it has been Bar Oz and then INVENTIONS.

Inventions was in existence in 1995.


Was it not Inventions first, then Bar Oz?

Difficult to remember!

Was it not Inventions first, then Bar Oz?

Difficult to remember!

You could be right going from the description and date on this photograph in the City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4086468759/ - this indicates 1995.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2570/4086468759_0eba9392fc_o.jpg

Was Bar Oz when I took this one 15/01/2001

http://www.fototime.com/FC01B5DC1FC0D3F/orig.jpg

Little snippet:

On the matter of the Crows Nest, it also has a historical link (as do a lot of pub names with the fact that when the original pub was built it was surrounded by trees which contained colonies of rooks. Thus it was the rook's nests that gave the pub its name. At that time (early 1800's) Barras Bridge was quite "countrified" having lots of trees in the vicinity. Unfortunately many of the trees were cut down in the 1860's and the rooks moved on. Evidently the original Crows Nest pub had the appearance of a country cottage with a red tiled roof. The present Crows Nest was a redevelopment which commenced in the late 1890's. The pub was acquired by Newcastle Breweries in 1896 and further remodelled in 1899 and 1902. The Crows Nest closed in the 1960's and had the nickname "Feathers and Twigs" and also "Feathers and S*it". During its heyday, this was one of Newcastle Breweries "flagship" hostelries and it has some "luxurious" features.

hi does any one know the name of the pub facing swing bridge in the 50s. I thought it was the jolly sailor it was a buff sandstone colour and was run by a mr gibson possibly george it was my nans brother one of 12 and i can remember visting him in the 50s but cant find any old photos.


any info or photos of pub would be welcome please.

.

Jolly Sailor may well have been the pubs nickname?

Closest pub that I can find is THE ANCHOR hstood at the bottom of Castle Stairs and more or less at the end of the Swing Bridge on Close.

Built originally in the early 1800's and rebuilt 1878 and closed in 1967 (source is Brian Bennison's Heady Days a History of Newcastle's Public Houses Volume One The Central Area).

Photographs here courtesy of the City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4076836781/sizes/o/in/photostream/ and http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4077637978/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2480/4076836781_26f23c59eb_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2627/4077637978_6b8f786368_o.jpg

As far as I know it is:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCoQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.gateshead.gov.uk%2Fdocushare%2Fdsweb%2FGet%2FDocument-26015%2FItem%2B07a%2B-%2BGateshead%2BMillennium%2BBridge%2BRemoval%2Bof%2BVCPS%2Breport.doc&rct=j&q=gteshead%20millenium%20bridge%20remove&ei=e7OYTb64JZva4wbm9dnUAQ&usg=AFQjCNF1XtgrvZXSorqJC6LI0QI4Qgg46w

Note that the link takes you to the Council's word document on this subject

I always thought those bollards were a pointless addition to the bridge and detracted from its simplicity for the sole reason of far-fetched health and safety possibilities.

Having said that....I might even miss them when they're gone. I've gotten used to seeing kittywakes perched on them.

Going back earlier that Rockshots and Studio's, how many folk can recall their predecessors - SCAMPS and the HOFBRAUHAUS?

These tickets from the Jack Phillips Cuttings Collection:

http://www.fototime.com/97867389E2EC702/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/029884F4F10C68A/orig.jpg

Brilliant. To the best of my knowledge, Scamps was the previous name of the Rockshots club, whereas the Hofbrauhaus was either what became the Village pub or the Powerhouse / Scotland yard basement club. Incidentally, my Dad informs me that the latter was known as Zoots at some point?

Mega respect (naff I know) from me for getting Aphex Twin to appear. I've seen him twice in Newcastle, once at the Riverside and at the Mayfair - both times were very special and a little bit bizarre. Richard James is one of my main musical heroes, so getting him on stage in Newcastle is pretty cool :)

Wish you'd been to mine. My mother came. And most of the staff were off duty that night to revel with me for my birthday. They had to get temp staff and if you can imagine how heaving it was, imagine even further how chaotic the service was :p

Brilliant. To the best of my knowledge, Scamps was the previous name of the Rockshots club, whereas the Hofbrauhaus was either what became the Village pub or the Powerhouse / Scotland yard basement club. Incidentally, my Dad informs me that the latter was known as Zoots at some point?

It has been - in no particular order - the Hofbrauhaus, the Beer Keller, Zoots, Dingwalls, and The Bear Pit.

Dingwalls was the best of the lot, part of a national chain and a forerunner of Riverside. I saw some great bands there, including The Eurythmics and the Undertones.

I remember Scamps vaguely as an underage drinker, and I think it had a different entrance (but on the same street) to Rockshots, and a much different layout inside. So I don't think it was a straightforward transition. The Studio cinema became a paintball or laser place for a while in the late 80s/early 90s.

It has been - in no particular order - the Hofbrauhaus, the Beer Keller, Zoots, Dingwalls, and The Bear Pit.

Dingwalls was the best of the lot, part of a national chain and a forerunner of Riverside. I saw some great bands there, including The Eurythmics and the Undertones.

I remember Scamps vaguely as an underage drinker, and I think it had a different entrance (but on the same street) to Rockshots, and a much different layout inside. So I don't think it was a straightforward transition. The Studio cinema became a paintball or laser place for a while in the late 80s/early 90s.

Rockshots (the upstairs club with the long staircase entrance that is now the foyer of the City Loft apartments) became Laser Quest after 2001. Rockshots was still open upstairs when Scotland Yard was downstairs in the basement- they often complained about noise, would you believe, because they claimed they could hear our music over theirs. :D But, Rockshots had kinda died a death after a night they introduced in 1998 called The Fiver Deal - you paid a fiver in and had unlimited free drinks. As you can imagine, it attracted a very odd clientele of waifs and strays and charvas, and with that much booze imbibing and social mixing, it often led to volatility and a very tense atmosphere. It is my belief that was the beginning of the end of Rockshots. To the best of my knowledge, Rockshots had already closed at some point before Scotland Yard's forced closure after condemnation, which was in early 2002.

Well I never thought the sun inn was "scarey", just a working class pub.Perhaps that makes me the scarey one?!

For the size of the building the bar always seemed tiny to me, I assume the upstairs is accommodation?

I assume the sun inn was purpose built when Gibson St. flats went up, I believe this was in the 1930s, anyone got any old pictures of it?

On a different note, walked passed retro bar/flynns this afternoon, they now have a bloke outside trying to persuade/hassling people to go in, I have never seen that in this country, only abroad.

Well I never thought the sun inn was "scarey", just a working class pub.Perhaps that makes me the scarey one?!

For the size of the building the bar always seemed tiny to me, I assume the upstairs is accommodation?

I assume the sun inn was purpose built when Gibson St. flats went up, I believe this was in the 1930s, anyone got any old pictures of it?


From the Newcastle City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4078201281/sizes/o/in/photostream/ - circa 1971

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2525/4078201281_a2dafa47d8_o.jpg

Well I never thought the sun inn was "scarey", just a working class pub.Perhaps that makes me the scarey one?!

I only went a few times as the Sun. I know that the guys who converted it to Six did have some fairly scary times [as in they felt, or were threatened/scared] when they tried to change the character of the place. That was more what I meant. Though it struck me as being significantly rougher than an 'average' working class pub.

On a different note, walked passed retro bar/flynns this afternoon, they now have a bloke outside trying to persuade/hassling people to go in, I have never seen that in this country, only abroad.

I can t imagine how else they'd get bodies through the door. It won't last long, Bowlt has a lot on his plate; the demise of Linekers, Flynns about to be struck off, licencing and planning looking very closely at them.

From the Newcastle City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4078201281/sizes/o/in/photostream/ - circa 1971

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2525/4078201281_a2dafa47d8_o.jpg


Thanks for this, the flats look like they had flat roofs then, never knew that!

Does anyone remember Flynns, when it was Christies?

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/FlynnsasChristies.jpg

. . . . the 'top Ship' ought to be part of the circuit. But if your current scary, though spending customers indicate that you might suddenly become unwell..... it sharpens the mind . . . There have been connections with the Ship which have presented huge challenges. They may soon weaken - but then . . . .
Notwithstanding those challenges, we must be pleased that it still stands and, hopefully, will continue to enjoy prosperity as the Ouseburn progressively develops.

I only went a few times as the Sun. I know that the guys who converted it to Six did have some fairly scary times [as in they felt, or were threatened/scared] when they tried to change the character of the place.I agree that this always going to be a tough transformation. Sadly, the 'traditionalists' didn't seem to understand that any serious obstruction to the transformation was likely to lead them back to exactly where they had been - and to where they are again now: With a closed pub.


I can t imagine how else they'd get bodies through the door.The traditional methods work just fine:-
2 Pall Bearers at the front, and 2 at the rear.

Does anyone remember [I]Flynns, when it was Christies?Yes! I do!
(and I even went in there, in a professional capacity, rather than to drink anything).

But what I found more remarkable about that image is Baltic Chambers - At that time, its ground floor wasn't yet 'Heartbreak Soup' which I recall with immense fondness - and whose remaining proprietor S.P. still operates the Lazarides Gallery in that same building. Before the team of (then) young enthusiasts who created Heartbreak Soup in there, I only recall Baltic Chambers as a decaying pidgeon hostel. Their story of transforming an unwanted Quayside ruin into a left-field restaurant before the pubs moved in is quite a remarkable tale. The downstairs restaurant was booked for many private parties from wild rowdy events, often with a strong reggae bias (much to the annoyance of my learned gentlemen upstairs), through to a Newcastle Philosophical Annual Dinner.
Its sadly missed.

There have been connections with the Ship which have presented huge challenges. They may soon weaken - but then . . . .
Notwithstanding those challenges, we must be pleased that it still stands and, hopefully, will continue to enjoy prosperity as the Ouseburn progressively develops.


Fingers crossed.

I agree that this always going to be a tough transformation. Sadly, the 'traditionalists' didn't seem to understand that any serious obstruction to the transformation was likely to lead them back to exactly where they had been - and to where they are again now: With a closed pub. [Its a shame the phrase 'no-brainer' has been hi-jacked, because that was their error - No Brain]

There was no way the Sun was sustainable in its previous incarnation, the customers were going to die out [or in some cases be occupied on gardening leave in Parkurst].

The traditional methods work just fine:-
2 Pall Bearers at the front, and 2 at the rear. Yes! I do!
(and I even went in there, in a professional capacity, rather than to drink anything).

Certainly if they ve eaten there :). I wonder if Christies was a homage to the murderer. I can't imagine anyone [other than a tramp or someone involved in environmental health] ever wanting to drink there.

But what I found more remarkable about that image is Baltic Chambers - At that time, its ground floor wasn't yet 'Heartbreak Soup' which I recall with immense fondness - and whose remaining proprietor S.P. still operates the Lazarides Gallery in that same building. Before the team of (then) young enthusiasts who created Heartbreak Soup in there, I only recall Baltic Chambers as a decaying pidgeon hostel. Their story of transforming an unwanted Quayside ruin into a left-field restaurant before the pubs moved in is quite a remarkable tale. The downstairs restaurant was booked for many private parties from wild rowdy events, often with a strong reggae bias (much to the annoyance of my learned gentlemen upstairs), through to a Newcastle Philosophical Annual Dinner. Its sadly missed.

Steve did a great job in that restaurant. I never had a bad meal, and still remember the LP lined toilets. Fortunately, as you rightly point out he's still there, albeit in the art trade. His staff were usually excellent and at least some can still be found in Pan Hagertys.

Worked around the corner from the Baltic, of and on, in the late 70s, early 80s.

There used to be quite a few do's there, birthdays, retirements, promotions, etc. I went to a fair few, don't remember leaving very many!

Photograph from the City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4077975847/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2570/4077975847_01f849c243_o.jpg

Brilliant pic.

I have a recollection of a matter involving firearms in the Baltic [or the Blatic as it was occasionally known] where despite its being rammed full everyone was looking in a different direction. There's also a recollection of a couple of gentlemen regulars who used to receive calls via the pub phone, known as 'The Stella Twins' who were frequently used to give people what the army calls interviews without coffee, only with a bit more...... enthusiasm.

it was a top bar. I used to visit a lot when working in town and for the last 10 yrs it s been my local. It s way poncier than I d like it, but it's less of a pratfest then you might expect. I'll point the new management to the pic. I have a few of the Vanity Fair prints and bits and pieces from when the place was converted from the Bonded Warehouse & Wig and Pen to the Eye on the Tyne. Like many places it changed from being a pub to a bar.

By the way has anyone got a steer on Bar 38. It seems to have been darkened for a few days now [over what ought to be a busy weekend]. Wonder if another 'un has bitten the dust.

Yes they used to see some cheap tat in there but at least it was under cover :lol:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3509/4078262491_f67331afb9_o.jpg

I've just been out for a drink with a lad who put bands on in this shed in the early 1980s, and he says it was called Finnigan's Warehouse back then. It was owned by the person who held the lease for the Baltic Tavern.

Are you saying that when the Byker Wall Estate was constructed it was a deliberate and considered opinion not to include Public Houses?

I would like to know how many pubs and clubs were lost in the redevelopment?

Remember when the Bluebell a legendary pub at the top of Shields Road was taken over by Harditsy's Cycles and they put an art gallery in the first floor. It closed maybe it was a bit "gentrification" too far.

To widen it up a little to Byker in general, this is what Brian Bennison has to say in his book "Heavy Nights - A History of Newcastle's Public Houses - Volume 2 - The North and East":

"A hundred years ago Byker had a hard working community of around 40,000 people. There were 33 fully licences houses, 14 beerhouses and 21 off licences.
In 1896 342 people were arrested for drunkenness and of those 99 were picked up in Shields Road"

I'm sure that the Stag's Head remains amongst the Byker Wall Estate - on Headlam Street?

This is a picture of the pub courtesy of the City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4080070612/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3490/4080070612_d2abf65962_o.jpg

Also the Hare and Hounds on the new Raby Street although it may now be closed.

This picture from the City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4086901639/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2512/4086901639_e26af47d71_o.jpg

There was a pub called the Royal Station Hotel on the corner of Conyers Road and Dalton Street.

So there were pubs that were demolished to make way for the Wall but also those which survive :)

The Hare and Hounds has been closed a while, it was covered in a mural some time ago depicting various local things of note (shipbuilding, football etc iirc). Dont know if it still is though.

I'm sure that the Stag's Head remains amongst the Byker Wall Estate - on Headlam Street?Yes, it still stands.

But its last orders will have been called many moons ago. Its got thick grilles over all doors and windows.

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I am in no doubt that the (old) terraces of Byker included quite a number of pubs - these would not only have serves the community of local residents but also workers in the thriving industries along the Tyne and elsewhere across the area.

Raby Street and Commercial Road were the main arteries and I would guess that they might have been the focus of most community activities south of Shields Road.


On the theme of the old pubs of old Byker, I have just been looking at a copy of the old community magazine, the Byker Phoenix, from March 1977.

This edition includes a mini pub-crawl, through some of those very pubs, with a narrative written by the residents of Byker, from the 1970s . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/BykerPhoenix-March1977_0001.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/BykerPhoenix-March1977_0002.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/BykerPhoenix-March1977_0003.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/BykerPhoenix-March1977_0004.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/BykerPhoenix-March1977_0005.jpg


I always find it interesting to read contemporary writings from people.

They are often more 'revealing' than the more considered narrative in a book, probably written years later.

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Great stuff Mr Wilf and Mr Steve!
I remember in the early eighties that several bars in the city had "ladies lounges".
Did Newcastle have "pleasure gardens"?

THE LOWTHER had a ladies only lounge but I cannot place an others in the City, suppose being a bloke I wouldn't really have taken much notice. Of course the GRAPE VAULTS in Grey Street was a men only bar right up till it closed in the 1980's. Allegedly there was no ban on women entering but there was no ladies toilet.

Grape Vaults 1966 - courtesy of the City Library Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4079317273/

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3150/4079317273_d15ddd8473_o.jpg

The Lowther - this view on the Newgate Street side of the Pub - the Ladies Lounge was above the other entrance on Nunn Street - photograph courtesy of City Library Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4086688451/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2720/4086688451_5786d4c9fe_o.jpg

On the matter of the 'Pleasure Gardens', I suppose you could classify both Leazes Park and Exhibition Park as being a type of 'Pleasure Garden' on the basis that at least they had band stands :)

This is an interesting photograph of the Exhibition Park from the City Library Archive Collection @ http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2686/4077566758_8ec1fa632c_o.jpg as it is described as being Town Moor Recreation Ground - 1870.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2686/4077566758_8ec1fa632c_o.jpg

Not tot be outdone, here is a late 1800's photograph of the Leazes Park Bandstand - from the City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4079251779/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2638/4079251779_01b3fd56b8_o.jpg

I haven't heard of The Lowther having a Ladies' Bar, but Butlers Bar, which backs onto the Lowther on Nun Street, had a very famous one.

The pub was formerly called the Nags' Head but was known as Carter's Bar, after a well-known local landscape artist called Francis Thomas Carter (1853-1934), who ran the place for many years.

The Ladies Lounge opened upstairs in 1955, presided over by a Mr Armstrong. The pub officially changed its name to Carters Wine Lodge in 1968, and in 1976 the then manager Mrs Wright turned the 'Ladies' Lounge' into the ‘Licensed Ladies Powder Room’, where women could enjoy a drink without the company of men. But it incurred the wrath of the Equal Opportunies Commission, and had to admit blokes.

Robinsons, in the Bigg Market (also coincidentally once called the Nags' Head) had a 'No Unaccompanied Ladies" rule that lasted for a century and a half. As recently as 1975, they had a sign that said: "Women are let in only on condition they are fully manned" - but they did have a separate ladies-only room.

Yes of course it was Carters Wine Lodge - must be 30 years since I was in there, so thus the confusion (and old age!) - entrance on Nun's Lane into the Lowther - Ladies Lounge upstairs in Carters just off the stair landing if I recall.

Mind, historically it was all part of the Lowther Hotel and Buffet :)

Nice shot of Nun's Lane here courtesy of the City Libraries Archive Collection circa 1972 @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4078228687/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2798/4078228687_c68442cb7f_o.jpg

This sketch of the Bigg Market dates from 1860 and appeared in the January 1891 edition of the The Monthly Chronicle of North Country Lore and Legend.

The building with Rachel Dixon's name over the door is the UNICORN INN and next door with the rampant lion sign is the GOLDEN LION.

The Unicorn Inn has a link with the VICTORIA TUNNEL as it is there in January 1841 that the workers that had been employed on its construction were given a night out.

The event was recorded by Thomas Fordyce in his Local Records for 8th January 1841 reported 'The workmen, to the number of two hundred, were regaled with a substantial supper and strong ale, supplied by Mrs. Dixon, the worthy hostess of the Unicorn Inn, Bigg-market, Newcastle. The Albion band attended, and enlivened the joyous occasion with their music'.

http://www.fototime.com/512DC325349F828/orig.jpg

Came across a photograph of a similar view to the sketch above on the City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4086997775/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2645/4086997775_6ac02b5711_o.jpg

I've been behind these plans since I first heard of them a few weeks ago - they are replenishing buildings in the Cloth Market and beyond that have been decrepit for far too long. The Bigg Market area might be rather developed at street level, but when you look up, it's a whole different story.

On that subject, does anyone remember Java Jim's café when it was still open? I don't, but the livery is still on that shop unit and as far as I know it's been empty for years. I hope the redevelopments include that unit.

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It just happens that I was in the Cloth Market this afternoon taking some shots, primarily of Drury Lane but took some of the building at 10 Cloth Market that still carried the Java Jim name.

It was of course in at least the 1940's the Cloth Market Cafe and Restaurant - dates from 1908 but may contain earlier buildings with a date range of between the 17th and 18th Century (source - Grace McCombie - Pevsner Architectural Guides Newcastle and Gateshead).

Here are a couple of shots from today in what is fast becoming a dilapidated part of Newcastle:

By the way can anyone come up with the buildings name - looks to me like MOLLION BUILDINGS but unable to verify?

http://www.fototime.com/CD2C86DB599A964/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/B773D386023CDD5/orig.jpg

Bit of a views when it was Pavorottis Restaurant (circa 1995), courtesy of the City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4086690679/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2579/4086690679_d63299de2f_o.jpg

This one from 1964 when it was the Cloth Market Cafe and Restaurant, again courtesy of the City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4077592018/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3477/4077592018_d2dfcf16ef_o.jpg

The photo of the SEYMOUR'S ARMS / ROYAL BAR / ROYAL BUFFET / CAFE 100 / KINNEARS premises (that I had indeed included earlier in this thread) was taken when it was The Royal Buffet, in the 1980s. Here it is again . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/RoyalBuffetTheatreRoyal1980s.jpg


Cannot say that I ever ventured into this particular Pub but found it amusing to note that it was at one stage named Seymour's Arms, the amusement being that Stan Seymour's Sports Shop stood in more or less an identical spot on the other end of the block (corner of Pilgrim St and Market St).

Also noticed that in Kelly's of 1883 the pub was then named 100 Grey St - ROYAL RESTAURANT.


Quite a good photo of the Royal Buffet, from outside.

The sign with the red background seems very familiar to me, that's how I remember that corner being . .


http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/RoyalBuffet.jpg

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Here it is when it was the Lord Collingwood . . .

Yes saw that one when you posted it the other day NH, thought then that I had never realised the former Lord Collingwood/Turks is a flat roofed building.

Anyway, dragged this one up from the depths of my hard drive - dating from circa 2000, sorry about the size but memory space was at a premium back then :ohno:

http://www.fototime.com/1ABAB413EF2662E/orig.jpg

Yes saw that one when you posted it the other day NH, thought then that I had never realised the former Lord Collingwood/Turks is a flat roofed building.

Anyway, dragged this one up from the depths of my hard drive - dating from circa 2000, sorry about the size but memory space was at a premium back then :ohno:

http://www.fototime.com/1ABAB413EF2662E/orig.jpg

Well 10 years on I had a wander down High Bridge to see The Lane for myself, must be down to my ignorance of the ever changing Newcastle Nightlife Scene that I had never heard of The Lane. Some snaps taken today:

http://www.fototime.com/559F0561CBA1B0A/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/C7C0CEC3043DF07/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/417AF904907CC51/orig.jpg

Been a while since I last passed The Percy Arms in the Haymarket and was a little surprised to see it 'badged' as a Newcastle United type pub - has it been painted in that style for a while and is the theme continued on the inside?

http://www.fototime.com/8D23EE85D68D13B/orig.jpg

Very plain looking back in 1964 in this photograph from the City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4079308079/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2495/4079308079_33497cbccc_o.jpg

Been a while since I last passed The Percy Arms in the Haymarket and was a little surprised to see it 'badged' as a Newcastle United type pub - has it been painted in that style for a while and is the theme continued on the inside?

http://www.fototime.com/8D23EE85D68D13B/orig.jpg

Very plain looking back in 1964 in this photograph from the City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4079308079/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2495/4079308079_33497cbccc_o.jpg

Steve,

it's been a NUFC bar for some time now. Not certain if this is a new scheme or they've just cleaned it up a bit :lol:

Cheers
GBDT

This was what the Percy Arms turned into in 1986!!!!!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6015/5979293050_721cc5648e_z.jpg
P&T Image Archive, NCC

Hosted on flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/46354329@N06/5979293050/sizes/z/in/photostream/

Cheers
GBDT

This was what the Percy Arms turned into in 1986!!!!!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6015/5979293050_721cc5648e_z.jpg
P&T Image Archive, NCC

Hosted on flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/46354329@N06/5979293050/sizes/z/in/photostream/

Cheers
GBDT

Great picture - that brings back memories!

The pub was owned briefly by Pete Gosney, who died last month. He was behind the Broken Doll and the Jewish Mother. His girlfriend Rose was a Fine Art graduate from Newcastle University and he dabbled a bit himself.

The idea was to turn the pub into somewhere artists could exhibit their work on the first floor, with a cafe/restaurant on the top floor. You can just make out the 'Teas' sign in the window. If I remember correctly this required an external fire escape for some reason, which would have cost almost as much as he'd paid for the pub.

So the plan was abandoned and it reverted to the Percy Arms.

.
I remember the ELDON GRILL well, from the 1980s.

In those days it was a BERNI INN STEAK RESTAURANT, and I think it had recently changed from being a CHEF AND BREWER STEAK RESTAURANT, at that time.

There were at least two floors of restaurant, above a big Ground Floor Bar (like the restaurant, called 'The Eldon Grill' and later just 'The Eldon') in the 1980s.

The ground floor bar used to be an interesting place, you could just sit on a bar stool there, near the big windows, and watch the whole world go by, past Grey's Monument. You nearly always saw someone you knew, and could 'call them in' for a pint!

This photo is from a much earlier era, but it is interesting to see that it was already called THE ELDON GRILL, in 1938.

The Ground Floor was not a bar though, in 1938, as it is a branch of Barry Noble . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/EldonGrill-1938.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/4080064518_dbacf0bb93_o.jpg
Photos Courtesy of Newcastle City Council/City Libraries PHOTOSTREAM - http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/


For reference - the same building today (2009) courtesy of 'Newcastle Daily Photo' Website : http://www.newcastleupontynedailyphoto.com/
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/eldon-buildings2009.jpg

.

Re the Eldon Grill, a couple of memories popped up from the 70s of establishments nearby or possibly in the same building- The Pineapple (gay bar?) that used to have an occasional pianist, and also a ladies only lounge upstairs. To get round the law, they moved the ladies toilet sign from the toilet door to the outer door.

(Not that I ever went in any of the three).

Its one of the few pubs in Newcastle that I have never set foot, no special reason, just haven't.

Yes it did have a 'reputation' in the 1970's - bloke I used to work with had a part time job at the Eldon and often worked there dressed as a 'lady'. As I always say 'whatever floats your boat', at least he never turned up at his 'real job' dressed in women's clothes.

Eldon Building now houses The Charles Grey Pub and according to my Son they 'do good food' and its the same outfit (Ladhar Leisure) that own Sinners. I see they also do teas and coffee's and food for those sat on the pavement seats beside Greys' Monument.

Also a rather security minded jewellers on the ground floor with a security man standing outside who lets you through the door.

In Brian Bennison's book "Heady Days" he describes how Eldon Arms and Commercial Pubs amalgamated into the Eldon Grill & Restaurant during the late 1800's. Evidently in 1892 there was major damage when an internal support girder snapped and created damage that at first was thought to have been caused by a gas explosion.

Here's a shot of Eldon Building as Earl Grey see's it:

http://www.fototime.com/A0BA2125D259C31/orig.jpg

I unearthed this, a songsheet and admission ticket from the mid 1970s.
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv188/Shades_photos/Balmbras001.jpg

I've never actually been there, but I did promise Dicky Irwin at the Tyneside Summer Exhibition that I'd go and see him there when I was old enough. (I never did, I decided that I didn't like him half way through the conversation).

That slip of paper was stapled to the cover, obscuring the prices for the chops!

I passed by the Gap Site that was the Carlisle Pub on the corner of Westgate Road and Blenheim Street and noticed a Sold sign, so after at least 7 years since it was demolished we might see a new building?

Some snaps:

http://www.fototime.com/6C5BFFC11F4B32A/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/552E532263B8222/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/614DE28CBEA181B/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/26FBBE7BCBF5F52/orig.jpg

Time runs out for Scotswood clock landmark
by Andrew Glover, Evening Chronicle, August 3rd 2011

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/scotswood-stalwart-alma-wheeler-with-the-clock-in-the-background-740912271.jpg
Scotswood stalwart Alma Wheeler with the clock in the background

A PIECE of Newcastle history has been destroyed while in safekeeping with the council.

The clock which sat on top of the Ord Arms on Scotswood Road has been wrecked by vandals.

Council chiefs admitted the clock was wrecked in a break-in at the depot where it was being kept.

Developers working on the regeneration of Scotswood had pledged to restore the clock as a nod to the past.

But community leaders fear it could be beyond repair and are furious they’ve been kept in the dark for months.

Alma Wheeler, chair of the Scotswood Village Residents’ Association, said she has only just found out about the damage – even though it happened last January.

She said: “That clock was nearly 100% lead, I’ve been on about this clock at many meetings and no one from the council said anything.

“I’ve been made to look an idiot. I’ve made statements that the clock was in a safe and secure place and it was going to be returned to Scotswood either in the village or on a plinth or something similar.

“They can’t help that people come into the building and vandalise it but they should have made sure it was in a safe and secure place.”

The clock was part of the Ord Arms for more than 60 years before it was demolished in the 1960s.


Read More (Two Pages) - http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-east-news/evening-chronicle-news/2011/08/03/time-runs-out-for-scotswood-clock-landmark-72703-29169258/#ixzz1TyU10d7s

Time runs out for Scotswood clock landmark
by Andrew Glover, Evening Chronicle, August 3rd 2011

A PIECE of Newcastle history has been destroyed while in safekeeping with the council.

The clock which sat on top of the Ord Arms on Scotswood Road has been wrecked by vandals.

Council chiefs admitted the clock was wrecked in a break-in at the depot where it was being kept.

Developers working on the regeneration of Scotswood had pledged to restore the clock as a nod to the past.

But community leaders fear it could be beyond repair and are furious they’ve been kept in the dark for months.

Alma Wheeler, chair of the Scotswood Village Residents’ Association, said she has only just found out about the damage – even though it happened last January.

She said: “That clock was nearly 100% lead, I’ve been on about this clock at many meetings and no one from the council said anything.

“I’ve been made to look an idiot. I’ve made statements that the clock was in a safe and secure place and it was going to be returned to Scotswood either in the village or on a plinth or something similar.

“They can’t help that people come into the building and vandalise it but they should have made sure it was in a safe and secure place.”

The clock was part of the Ord Arms for more than 60 years before it was demolished in the 1960s.


Read More (Two Pages) - http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-east-news/evening-chronicle-news/2011/08/03/time-runs-out-for-scotswood-clock-landmark-72703-29169258/#ixzz1TyU10d7s

Quite an 'unsavoury' story I thought, especially given the absence of information on the damage to the clock from NCC and doesn't the comment As a gesture of goodwill, the council agreed to store it under lock and key just make you want to throw your arms up in despair.

Anyway, a couple of photographs of the clock when it was in the Breweries, pre demolition:

http://www.fototime.com/2839B6C8BC63B03/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/326A670ABA343FB/orig.jpg

.
In continuation of the ORD ARMS story, covered earlier in this thread, in the below posts . . .

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=82506430&postcount=2373
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=82513404&postcount=2375
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=82515491&postcount=2380

Rare photo donated to Scotswood residents
by Andrew Glover, Evening Chronicle, August 15th 2011

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/this-image-of-the-ord-arms-pub-in-scotswood-shows-the-clock-which-chimed-for-decades-and-was-loved-by-west-end-folk-378313919.jpg
This image of the Ord Arms pub in Scotswood shows the clock, which chimed for decades.

THIS rare photograph of a vandalised Newcastle landmark, brought back fond memories.

The image of the Ord Arms pub in Scotswood shows the proud clock which chimed for decades and was loved by folk in the West End. The clock sat on top of the pub for more than 60 years before the building was demolished in the 1960s. It was then moved to the Scottish and Newcastle brewery site at Gallowgate until that too was knocked down.

Newcastle City Council agreed to store the clock with the hope it would get a new home in Scotswood once the revamp of the area was finished, but vandals broke into the building where it was kept and badly damaged it. The mainly-lead clock was stripped for scrap.

Alan Richardson, 85, from Grainger Park, Newcastle, bought the photograph from a charity shop for about £2. The caption on the photograph reads: “There was a small pub on this site in 1834, named after the Ord family of Fenham Hall. This second Ord Arms was build at the turn of the century after Scotswood Works was opened.”

Alan has lots of memories of the clock and was saddened when he read it had been ruined by thieves. Alan has decided to donate the picture to the chair of Scotswood Residents’ Association, Alma Wheeler. “I’m really interested in the history of Newcastle and I knew the clock from years and years ago,” he said.


Read More - http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-east-news/evening-chronicle-news/2011/08/15/rare-photo-donated-to-scotswood-residents-72703-29234988/#ixzz1V6CvEjX9

Passed the Crofters Lodge pub (the old Kenton Bar pub, for years and years) today. It's been closed for some time but it's now being primed for demolition by our friends from Prudhoe. Shame, perfect place for a pub, just the wrong types got in! Will have to try and get some pics before it's gone.

Housing or care home?

Cheers
GBDT


Back in the 70s (working at the nearby Kenton Bar offices) we used to spend every lunctime in The Kenton Bar!

Was amazed, years later, when they changed the name to 'The Crofters Lodge', as 'The Kenton Bar' was such a well known name and place.

When people asked for directions when driving around in that part of Newcastle, you would always say "turn left at the Kenton Bar" (or whatever) to people.

That name change was the start of that DAFT era (still happening) when long-standing 'pub names' seemed to start to (and then continue to) change without seeming rhyme or reason!!

.

That name change was the start of that DAFT era (still happening) when long-standing 'pub names' seemed to start to (and then continue to) change without seeming rhyme or reason!!

Yes and in a way alters history, for example in this case the Kenton Bar was named after the Toll House on the Turnpike which stood close by.

Crofters Lodge?, sheesh.

I used to spend every lunchtime in the Crofters when I worked at the ministry at Kenton Bar.

Absolute madness it's going. The West and North West of Newcastle is becoming a bit of a barren land for locals. There's hardly any pubs left for a huge swathe of the city!

I used to spend every lunchtime in the Crofters when I worked at the ministry at Kenton Bar.

Absolute madness it's going. The West and North West of Newcastle is becoming a bit of a barren land for locals. There's hardly any pubs left for a huge swathe of the city!

An interesting photograph of an earlier Kenton Bar public house courtesy of the City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4081526296/

Description is:
042420:Kenton Bar Kenton Unknown Undated

Type : Photograph Medium : Print-black-and-white Description : An undated view of Kenton Bar Kenton. The Kenton Bar public house is on the right-hand side of the road with other buildings on the left-hand side.Description and Views Collection : Local Studies Printed Copy : If you would like a printed copy of this image please contact Newcastle Libraries www.newcastle.gov.uk/tlt quoting Accession Number : 042420


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2785/4081526296_ec15265b94_o.jpg

Brian Bennison reckons there may have been an Inn at that site for over 200 years.

Brian Bennison reckons there may have been an Inn at that site for over 200 years.

Makes sense: that's a thirsty hill to toil up.

Passed the Crofters Lodge pub (the old Kenton Bar) today. It's been closed for some time but it's now being primed for demolition by our friends from Prudhoe. Shame, perfect place for a pub, just the wrong types got in! Will have to try and get some pics before it's gone.

Housing or care home?

Cheers
GBDT

Had a word with the blokes erecting the fence. It's going to be demolished and replaced with a nursing home.

sad, but here is the last photo of the pub - with fence being erected.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6077/6059593183_29b403c43b_z.jpg

Cheers
GBDT

:cripes: Another one goes.

Well another example of meddling with pub names, this time the Ye Old Hundred in North Shields has changed its name to Bar 100 - this is an advert they have placed in the Whitley Bay Guardian.

http://www.fototime.com/B213B7B10483759/orig.jpg

And this is how it used to look:

http://www.fototime.com/7C8F902158F9251/orig.jpg

The Old Hundred (Ye Old Hundred) didn't come into existence until circa 1895 and it stands at the corner of Church Way and Albion Road. The Old Hundred is actually two public houses merged into one - Robert Potts had the Victoria Inn which stood at number 100 Church Way (thus the name) and his Sister owned the Angel Inn on Albion Road. At a date, circa 1895, both merged and became the Old Hundred Inn.

Bobby Shafto and Howlett Hall come to mind.

Surely they are not still open?


Bobby Shafto circa 2001 and boarded up then - that area was one of the few where I was conscious of perhaps being mugged for my camera gear :bash:

http://www.fototime.com/C031301D151643C/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/7631212558C85C7/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/138BF2A38443D6D/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/9EE2926FDB4A29C/orig.jpg

Howlett Hall is now a Sainsbury's Local.

Quick query - is there any sort of easy access online database kicking around anywhere that would detail every pub thathas existed in Tyneside in the last 100 years, address, whether currently open/shut, name changes, etc.? I would find it interesting to track the rate at which closures have occurred in different areas.



If you look on the WEBSITES LISTING THREAD under 'Section 09', there are a few Pubs Websites listed (under "P" for Pubs) and I know that one of them is called
Lost Pubs of Newcastle, or something like that.

I don't think it is 100%, but it may provide something of what you are looking for . . .

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=59482683&postcount=10

Remember, if you do find any more useful sites (not listed above) then let me know, so that I can add them to the list for everyone.

Quick query - is there any sort of easy access online database kicking around anywhere that would detail every pub thathas existed in Tyneside in the last 100 years, address, whether currently open/shut, name changes, etc.? I would find it interesting to track the rate at which closures have occurred in different areas.

I was in that new Lady Grey's last night. OK, but I can't help feeling that there's more than enough of these "upscaled" bars knocking around now (cf. The Central; The Town Wall), particularly in such economically bleak, no-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel times as these.


Would be nice to think that there is such a database on line but somehow I doubt it but what a historical resource it would make.

As NH mentioned, Brian Bennison has written three volumes of books that cover Newcastle Pub history. Geoff Phillips also has his book "Old Pubs of Newcastle" which is a handy resource.

Going wider afield I can recommend Charlie Steel's "Inns and Taverns of North Shields".

Quick query - is there any sort of easy access online database kicking around anywhere that would detail every pub thathas existed in Tyneside in the last 100 years, address, whether currently open/shut, name changes, etc.? I would find it interesting to track the rate at which closures have occurred in different areas.

I was in that new Lady Grey's last night. OK, but I can't help feeling that there's more than enough of these "upscaled" bars knocking around now (cf. The Central; The Town Wall), particularly in such economically bleak, no-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel times as these.

You might also want to PM a member called Al Reetson [he posts in this thread]. I get the impression he as an awful lot of information on this subject.

Quick query - is there any sort of easy access online database kicking around anywhere that would detail every pub thathas existed in Tyneside in the last 100 years, address, whether currently open/shut, name changes, etc.? I would find it interesting to track the rate at which closures have occurred in different areas.

I was in that new Lady Grey's last night. OK, but I can't help feeling that there's more than enough of these "upscaled" bars knocking around now (cf. The Central; The Town Wall), particularly in such economically bleak, no-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel times as these.

Not online, but don't forget the Wards/Kellys directories which list businesses by trafe as well as by street. Also the licensing authority records (annual 'Brewster Sessions') should name all the pubs in a particular area, and reasons for the cancellation of licences.

Not online, but don't forget the Wards/Kellys directories which list businesses by trafe as well as by street. Also the licensing authority records (annual 'Brewster Sessions') should name all the pubs in a particular area, and reasons for the cancellation of licences.

Some are online:

http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/

Fourth floor of the central library has full sets too.

You might also want to PM a member called Al Reetson [he posts in this thread]. I get the impression he as an awful lot of information on this subject.

I've only researched the lineage of pubs that are still trading in and around the city centre, and I can't say I've had to abandon too many in recent years due to closure.

In fact in the last decade or so, the tiny number of city centre pubs shutting down has been far outweighed by ones that have opened from scratch, so to speak: such as the Union Rooms, Town Wall, Pacific, Mushroom Bar and The Mile Castle, not to mention several on Mosley/Colingwood Street and in The Gate, and one or two on the Quayside.

I'm not saying they're all doing well or will be around for some time time to come, and the picture is certainly bleak once outside the city centre, but most of the older pubs in central Newcastle seem to plod along in some form or other.

I can't help with a comprehensive list of pubs over a century-long time-span, but Brian Bennison's books would be the nearest thing. All three are indexed, so it would be a matter of crossing off the ones that are closed in the index, then looking elsewhere in the book for details of when they closed.

I know you had a good steer on the history overall so thought you might be a straing point. I d say their best bet is a day in the central library with the Wards and Kellys.

I'm not saying they're all doing well or will be around for some time time to come, and the picture is certainly bleak once outside the city centre, but most of the older pubs in central Newcastle seem to plod along in some form or other.

Yes, with the exception of the odd 'texaco/esso' situation the ones in the city centre, at least the established ones, seem to just change names. In the Suburbs... different ball game entirely.

Going back to the first Newcastle Trade Directory of 1778 this gives an idea of the Public Houses that were listed, its based on the Landlords name but some entries do have the Pubs name - remember a f is an s:

Adams George. Quay-fide, m.
Ainfley James, fun, Percy-ftreet, m.
Alexander Thomas, D. of Cumber]., Queen-ftr.
Alcock Sam, cannon, Flefh-market, /.
Atkinfon John, burnt-houfe. Side, m.
Atkinfon John, bay-horse. Bigg-market, m.
Bailey Wm. unicorn. Quay-fide, m.
Bainbridge Wm. Forth-bank, //.
Hell Wm. Bee-hive, Flefh-market, m.
Bell Wm. peacock. Quay-fide, m.
Bell David, blue-bell, Black-gate.
Batfon Wm. Noah's ark, North-Shore, w;.
Benney John, fhip, Sandgate.
Benfon Richard, ditto, Ewesburn.
Black David, nag's head, Flefh-market, m.
Bolton Mrs. punch-bowl. Sandhill.
Bowden Wm. half-moon, Sandgate,/.
Brown Thomas, Jacob's well, ditto, h.
Brough Mrs. butchers' arms. Dog-bank, /;.
Burrell Richard, Wilkes' head, Flefh-market,/.
Burrell Cuth. bee-hive. Bigg-market, h.
Burden Rich. Highlander, Spicer-lane.
Galley John, three tuns, Pilgrim-ftreet.
Carr Thomas, rofe. Bigg-market, /;
Fife John, bull-heads, Caftle-yard, m.
Flint Paul, Crifpin, Side, /;.
Finley Daniel, cock and anchor, Sandgate, tii.
Firth Wm. blue potf, Pilgrim-ftreet, m.
Fotheringill Mrs. fhip, North-fhore, /.
Frames Wm. ditto, ditto.
Gibfon Wm. vine, Flefh-market, lit.
Gibson Mrs. ship, near New-gate.
Goodfellow Jof. near Ouie-burn.
Graham, , half moon, Oat-market.
Greaves Wm. rofe, Quay-fide, m.
Greatrex John, Queen's-head, Groat-market, m.
Hall Matt, black fwan, Flefh-market,/.
Hall Mrs. ditto, /;.
Harrifon , Firth-houfe.
Harle Thomas, grapes. New-gate.
Haftings Rowland, black-bull, Sandgate, m.
Hays Thomas, golden lion, Bigg-market, m.
Henzell Wm. Glynn's head, Flefli market, /.
Henzell James, Stone-cellar, North-fhore,/.
Henzell Timothy, Ballift-hills.
Henzell Ifaac, Glafs-houfes, North-fhore,/.
Henzell Mrs. ditto ditto.
Henderfon Geo. D. of Cumberland, Clofe, m.
Henderfon Mrs. North-niore, >n.
Hopper Mofes, red lion, F"lefh -market, m.
Hume Mrs. K. of Sweeden, eaft end of Clofe.
Hume James, fliip, Sandgate, /;.
Humble Mrs. Ballift-hills.
Hunter Geo. crofs-keys. Quay-fide, m.
Hunter Mrs. near Ewes-burn.
Johnfon Mrs. vine, Mufhroom.
Jopling Richard, fox and lamb, Pilgrim-ftr. m.
Jubbs, , Scotch arms. Nun-gate.
Kelly Jas. fun. Quay-fide, »«.
Kidd David, Golden anchor, Sandgate, m.
Lawfon Edw. feven ftars, Broad-garth.
Lee Edw. fun, Pandon, /.
Lee John, fhip, without the Weft-gate.
Leifhman Wm. black bull. Quay-fide, m.
Liddell Jof. fhip, Spicer-lane.
Livefton D. red lion, Sandgate, m.
Lock Robt. crown and cannon, Quay-fide,/.
Lowry Thomas, Phoenix, Clofe, «;.
Lowry David, fhip-launch, Sandgate-fliore.
Lyon Wm. plough, near Clofe-gate.
Manners Mofes, fun, near New-gate.
Maffey J. three kings and hawk, Quay-fi. m.
Middlemas Wm. Queen's-head, Ruecaftle-ch.
Moor Thomas, nag's-head. Butcher-bank, /.
Morton Ralph, hare and hound, Armorer's-ch.
Mordue Martin, pack horfe. Side, in.
Moffman Geo. hen and chickens, Butcher-ba. h.
Mowtry Wm. Scotfman, Sandgate.
Nefbitt Thomas lion and lamb, Execution dock.
Nefbitt Mrs. nagg's-head, Flefli-market, h.
Newton John, three tuns, F"lefh-market, vi.
Newton James, eaft end Clofe.
Oliver John, angle, Butclier-bank, /.
Park Ralph, blue bell. Side, /(.
Paterfon Mrs. Cow-gate.
Pearcy Mrs. pack-horfe, Pilgrim-ftreet, tn.
Petrie Alexander, Jacob's well, Sandgate, h.
Potts Wm. fighting cocks, Bigg-market, m.
Rayne Charles, Roljin Hood, Pilgrim-ftr. m.
Reed Wni. Ballift-hills.
Richey, James, bull's head, Quay-fide, «;.
Ridley George, blue bell, North-l'hore, in.
Richardfon Cuth. near Ewes-burn.
Richardfon Philip, bull's liead, Weftgate-ftr. /.
Rennifon Geo. Highlander, Sandgate, /;.
Robfon Lionel, Broad-chair, h.
Robinfon Thomas, fun, Spicer-lane.
Robertfon Daniel, fliip, North-fliore, /;.
Rogers James, fhip, Grindon-chair.
Rofs Thomas, ditto, Flefh-market, m.
Ruffel John, George, weft end of Quay-fide.
Rutherford George, cannon, Sandgate, m.
Rutledge M. golden anchor, Sandgate,/.
Sanderfon George, crown. Bigg-market, m.
Sanderfon Mrs. half moon, Caftle-yard, /.
Scott John, orange tree, Sandgate, /.
Scott James, fhip, North-fliore, h.
Scott Wm. blue bell, Sandgate, /(.
Scott Charles, fawyers, Pandon, m.
Scarborough Wm. half moon, Clofe, «/.
Shriglej' Hugh, pine apple. Quay-fide,/.
Simpfon James, flying horfe, Side, /;.
Simpfon Thomas, three tuns, Sandgate, m.
Singleton John, grapes, Fenkle-ftreet, /;.
Snowdon Lancelot, lion and lamb, New-gate.
Spark Mrs. black bull, Flefh-market, h.
Stead Thomas, black horfe, near Wliite-crofs.
Swanfton G. bay horfe, .Sandgate,/.
Swarley Richard, black boy. Groat-market, m.
Tate John, black bull, Piigrim-ftreet, It.
Taylor Jof. plane, Weftgate-ftreet, /.
Taylor Tho. bird in hand, Plumber-chair.
Thompfon George, cock, Low-bridge.
Todd Wm. fhip, High-br. m.
Trotter Jas. black houfe, Pilgrim-ftreet, m.
Trewhitt Mrs. fhip launch, Mufhroom.
Turnbull John, half moon. Sandhill.
Turnbull Mrs. crown, without West gate.
Turnbull Robt. Jacob's well, Sandgate, h.
Turnbull Matt, crooked billit, Ewes-burn.
Urwin Abraham, fun. Nun-gate.
Watfon Geo. bird in bufh, Pilgrim-ftreet, m
Weftmorland Rich, cannon, Clofe, ;«.
Wilfon Mrs. cock. Side, /;.
Wilfon Hen. fhip No. Shore, ;/;.
Wilfon Jacob, Ballift-hills.
Williamfon Mrs. Barras-bridge.
Winfliip Tho. fun, Flefh -market,/.
Wood Jno. Queen s head, without weft-gate.
Wray Geo. fhip, Grindonchair.
Wray Amos, golden lion, Spicer-lane.
Wright Jno. bear, Sand-gate.
Young Rich, carpenters' arms, Stock-bridge.

A useful resource for the pubs of Gateshead is Rob Bratton's site:

http://www.gateshead-pubs.com/

Apart from his target to photograph every pub in Gateshead and have a pint in each one he also has some useful photographs of old pubs long gone and a check list of pubs ancient and modern at the bottom of the Remember When section.

A useful resource for the pubs of Gateshead is Rob Bratton's site:

http://www.gateshead-pubs.com/

Apart from his target to photograph every pub in Gateshead and have a pint in each one he also has some useful photographs of old pubs long gone and a check list of pubs ancient and modern at the bottom of the Remember When section.


Thanks Alf,

I have added this site to the Websites Listing Thread.

This is all absolutely outstanding, everyone, thanks to you all for the assistance.

I'm pleased the Cradlewell has finally been sold. It was a bit silly for it to just sit there and S&N insist on it never re-opening again.

Although I am doubtful about its prospects, given its location miles from anywhere and given how utterly shambolic the nearby Punch Bowl has become of late.

I may have inadvertantly been misleading: it's by no means definite that the Cradlewell will reopen as a pub, just that it's been sold and it's no longer definite that it won't. The location's not bad for south Jesmond/Jesmond Vale/Sandyford, and there must be some students who prefer proper pubs to the Osborne Road abominations. Trouble is that S&N wrecked the place by going for an Its a Scream model and drove everyone away.

Sad to hear about the Punchbowl. That was my local for may years when Mrs Wilf and I lived at Akenside Terrace. In what was shambolic?

Wonder if it would be viable for a conversion into apartments, or are we to see the Jesmond equivalent of a MQF and subsequent new build?

Of course whatever happens there is bound to be 'noise concerns' with the next door neighbour - Kwik Fit :bash:

In better times:

http://www.fototime.com/3684BC2DEEA9C5C/standard.jpg

I remember this quaint little building on Northumberland Road as a "Carricks".


http://www.monkchester.plus.com/photos/carricks.JPG

courtesy of http://maps.google.co.uk/

However, looking at the photos on Newcastle Libraries Flickr site, it seems that it was, in the 1970's at least, a Tilley's.

http://www.monkchester.plus.com/photos/tillycarrick.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4078194015/

So then, were Tilley's taken over by Carricks, and then in turn, swallowed up by Greggs?

Chris

I remember this quaint little building on Northumberland Road as a "Carricks".

However, looking at the photos on Newcastle Libraries Flickr site, it seems that it was, in the 1970's at least, a Tilley's.

So then, were Tilley's taken over by Carricks, and then in turn, swallowed up by Greggs?

Chris

Hadn't realised it had been Tilleys - this 1966 photograph from the Newcastle City Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4077875649/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2615/4077875649_918c14f589_o.jpg

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Here is my favourite 'Metro Map', from November 12th 1982 . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/TynemouthtoStJamesMetro-Nov121982.jpg

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Here is my favourite 'Metro Map', from November 12th 1982 . . .


But a little sad when you read some of those pub names and realise they are no more :cheers:

But a little sad when you read some of those pub names and realise they are no more :cheers:

Yes, I agree.

It was even worse with the 150 Matchbox Labels thing I did a while back. An amazing number of those 150 have disappeared . . .

It's also been likened to a mosque :) and was widely rumoured to have been one . I remember looking into this a while ago and there was nothing to support either. I seem to remember it having a theatrical connection, but others probably know better than me.

Brian Bennison to the rescue once again - from his book "Lost Weekends - A History of Newcastle's Public House - Volume 3 - the West".

The Bodega was originally The Black Bull Inn, bought by Sir John Fitzgerald and re-opened in 1995 as the Bodega.

Perhaps dating from at least 1862 it was once owned by Jacob Wilkinson who brewed his own beer in the three story building at the rear. Evidently when the Pavillion Theatre was being built (on the site of another pub called The Pineapple) the excavations for its foundations caused the brew house to collapse.

In Brian's book "Brewers and Bottlers of Newcastle upon Tyne from 1850 to the present day" he has a paragraph on Jacob Wilkinson and adds that the collapsed brewery building was rebuilt and re-equipped in 1903 and he entertained 100 friends to celebrate its opening.

Evidently Wilkinson died in 1905 and the Inn and Brewery went to auction but failed to meet the asking price - presumably it lay empty until the SJF acquisition?

http://www.fototime.com/72DD4976FED9114/standard.jpg

I remember having a drink in there once or twice before it was the Bodega, so it can't have been empty "until the SJF acquisition". I remember it being quite a scary place with lots of shady looking people doing "business". I think it was still called The Black Bull at the time.

I remember having a drink in there once or twice before it was the Bodega, so it can't have been empty "until the SJF acquisition". I remember it being quite a scary place with lots of shady looking people doing "business". I think it was still called The Black Bull at the time.

Yes that's why I put the question mark as it seemed a long time 90 years for the place to remain unsold - must have a look at the Trade Directories to see if they throw any light on the situation :cheers:

I used to get in the Black bull back in the 70's, even then it was also known as the Bodega.

I used to get in the Black bull back in the 70's, even then it was also known as the Bodega.

Here is a time line going back as far as I have access to Trade Directories:

1822 – Black Bull – Margaret Lock

1834 – Black Bull – William Moore

1850 – Black Bull – W Jackson

1855 – Black Bull – T. Bell

1879 – 125 Westgate Road - Black Bull – Jacob Wilkinson

1883 – Black Bull – Jacob Wilkinson

1894 – Black Bull – Jacob Wilkinson

1921 – The Black Bull Inn – John Fitzgerald

1930 – Black Bull – Sir John Fitzgerald Ltd

Just caught up with this post now.

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%203/4089134558_3758b9d435_o.jpg

NH,

whereabouts was that pub (Brunton Arms)?

Was it where Matalan is now?
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The Kings Court, Kingston Park, Newcastle upon Tyne 3

The pub was called the Kings Court from 1981 to almost the end of its life, in 2000/2001, when it fleetingly changed it's name.

Its location could best be described as "just to the right of the entrance, as you drive into the Kingston Park Shopping Centre", which itself is/was on the left of Brunton Lane as you head north, before you reach the railway crossing/Kingston Park Metro Station.

It was on the opposite side of the road (Brunton Lane) to where Tesco/MacDonalds/Matalan etc, now are.

It is pretty much where the new Boots is now, a bit further south perhaps.

The third image in this Kings Court brochure from 1981 (below) shows the precise location on a map . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%204/KingsCourtPubKingstonParkNewcastle3_0001.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%204/KingsCourtPubKingstonParkNewcastle3_0002.jpg

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%204/KingsCourtPubKingstonParkNewcastle3_0003.jpg


The below 'Google Earth' image from 2001, shows the Kings Court newly demolished, just to the left (North/West) of the roundabout shown near the bottom of the image . . .

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/manorpark_photos/Newcastle%204/KingstonParkshops2001.jpg

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There is an excellent Website on Facebook (that I have only recently discovered) on this very subject of "Pubs of the past" . . .

Pubs, Clubs and Bars of Newcastle upon Tyne - Past and Present
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Pubs-Clubs-Bars-of-Newcastle-upon-Tyne-Past-and-Present/224146187641075