[INDONESIA] Defence and Military Issues [Archive]

Alvin

November 23rd, 2004, 03:27 AM

Indonesia to host first military expo

Tiarma Siboro, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

Indonesia is set to host its first defense industry showcase, featuring over 250 prominent companies from around the world, from Wednesday through Saturday.

A variety of products will be on show during the three-day exhibition at the Jakarta International Expo in the Kemayoran fairground in Central Jakarta, including Russian-made Sukhoi jet fighters, military trucks, Steyr gas-operated semi- and fully automatic assault rifles, integrated shore-based communications systems for maritime security, head protectors and military boots.

Minister of Defense Juwono Sudarsono said on Monday that the event, called Indo Defense 2004, would help visitors and trade delegates develop business contacts and networks.

"However, we are not expecting all the participants to directly strike business deals during the expo," Juwono said.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who is on his way home from the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in Santiago, is expected to open the exhibition.

Apart from Russia's Rosoboronexport State Corporation, which produces Sukhoi aircraft, other top names taking part in the defense expo include Steyr Mannlicher and Interarms, Oerlikon Contraves, Teijin Twaron GMBH, Daimler Chrysler, Korea Aerospace Industries Ltd., Daewoo Heavy Industry and Machinery Ltd., Britain's Rolls-Royce International Ltd., Kazan Helicopters, Russia's Rosverthol, Indian-Russian joint venture company Brahmo Aerospace, and, from Indonesia, the Army's munitions manufacturer PT Pindad, the Navy's shipbuilder PT PAL and state aircraft maker PT Dirgantara Indonesia.

The event comes as the defense ministry under Juwono is moving to streamline the military procurement process, which will start with the drawing up of a list of the hundreds of contractors that supply the country with its military equipment.

Indonesia has been seeking alternative suppliers of arms and other military equipment following an embargo imposed by the United States after East Timor atrocities following the former province's separation from Indonesia in 1999.

In the past year, the administration of former president Megawati Soekarnoputri bought four Sukhois and two Mi-35 assault helicopters from Russia and two submarines from South Korea as part of an attempt to rebuild the country's defense capabilities, which the military claims have been decimated by the U.S. embargo.

Defense experts from various countries will find a forum where they can exchange views, with a series of seminars on strategic security and defense issues in the Asia Pacific region due to be held on the sidelines of the exhibition.

Alvin

November 23rd, 2004, 03:28 AM

ROSOBORONEXPORT TO EMERGE AT INDONESIA ARMS EXHIBITION

MOSCOW, November 22 (RIA Novosti's Olga Semyonova) - At the first arms and military hardware exhibition INDO DEFENCE-2004 EXPO&FORUM, due in Jakarta in Indonesia on November 24 through 27, the FGUP Rosoboronexport will showcase versatile products of the Russian defence sector from the latest Su and Mig fighters to the renowned Kalashnikov automatic weapons.

"We will display the multifunctional Su-27SK and Su-30MK fighters; multifunctional attack plane Su-39 with the radar sight complex Kopye. We'll demonstrate the unique capabilities of the MiG-31E fighter-interceptor and the Yak-130 trainer," the Rosoboronexport spokesman told RIA Novosti before flying to Jakarta.

A place of pride in the Russian exhibition will be given to Mil and Kamov gunship, troop-carrier and reconnaissance helicopters - combat Mi-28NE; combat transport Mi-35, Mi-35P and Mi-35M; assault transport Mi-17-1V; radar picket Ka-31.

"Of the air-defence specimens brought along, specialists and visitors at the exhibition will inspect the 300VM Antei-2500 antiaircraft missile system, cutting-edge missile system S-300 PMU-2 Favorit and get exhaustive information on the antiaircraft missile systems of medium and small range Buk-M1-2 and Tor-M1, Pechora-2, Tunguska-M1, Osa-AKM, portable antiaircraft system Igla", the interviewee said.

He believes that foreign customers may find interest in the Zoopark radar system for missile and artillery positions surveillance; portable radar Fara-1 for group targets surveillance and aiming; radar Kredo-1 for moving surface targets surveillance; anti-radar protection system Gazetchik-E against self-aiming shells.

The Russian land forces exhibition will display the T-90S tank; T-72M1 updated tank with fire-control and heat-seeking sight of foreign make; updated light floating tank PT-76B; infantry combat vehicles BMP-3, BMP-3F; armoured personnel carriers BTR-90, BTR-80 and BTR-80A; self-propelled howitzer 2S19 Msta-S; as well as antitank missile systems Kornet-E and Metis-M1.

Rosoboronexport will showcase the well-known updated multiple-launch systems Grad and Smerch (RSZO), a multiple-launch version with the remote-controlled manned aircraft Pchela-1 (DPLA).

The Russian naval exhibition will show small coastal submarines Piranya, Piranya-T, Piranya-2; the escort ship Korsar; patrol boats Mirazh, Merkuri and Mangust; landing hovercrafts Murena-E and Chilim. Alongside them are different weapon systems - the shipborne missile system Uran-E with antiship missiles H-35E; shipborne rocket system with antiship cruise missiles Yakhont; shipborne antiaircraft missile systems Rif-M, Shtil-1 and Klinok.

Rosoboronexport will also present small arms like the Kashtan and Bizon-2 submachine-guns; improved Kalashnikov automatic weapons AK-101, AK-102, AK-103 and AK-104; Dragunov sniper rifles.

macgyver

November 23rd, 2004, 04:34 AM

Last Night I watched Metro TV.
That Indonesia Reject the condition from US for normalizing the military cooperation.
The US govt. wants Indonesia to ( skor = apa ya inggeris nya ? ) pejabat polisi dan militer yang terlibat kasus Timika dan Timor Timur.

Indonesia Defence Minister Say :
The Legal Process in Indonesia is merely Indonesian Business and cannot be pressed by other nation.
Indonesia regrets US that always use human rights to interfere other nation, in fact US itself has done many human right violations ... ( iraq, afghanistan etc. etc. )

PAK Juwono Sudarsono I am fully supporting you .... :okay: :okay:

Jakarta to press US on arms ban
Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono waves to reporters, 4 October 2004
Mr Yudhoyono plans to meet Mr Bush later this month
Indonesia's new defence minister is to visit the US to lobby for an end to Washington's arms embargo, as part of fresh moves to normalise relations.

Juwono Sudarsono will brief US officials about his country's need for arms and other military equipment.

The US banned weapons sales and direct military support to Indonesia because of the 1999 violence in East Timor.

Indonesia's new President Yudhoyono also hopes to meet President George W Bush at an Apec summit this month.

Foreign Minister Hassan Wirayuda gave no date for Mr Sudarsono's visit, but said it would take place early next year at the latest.

Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, has emerged as a key player in Washington's so-called war on terror. The new government of Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who won September's presidential election, is keen to present itself as a credible ally.

"We have really transformed ourselves into a democratic society," Indonesian Foreign Ministry spokesman Marty Natalegawa told BBC News.

"We feel that it is important that this new reality should be reflected by the United States."

Mr Bush is one of the leaders the new Indonesian President plans to meet on the sidelines of the Apec conference in Chile, which begins on 20 November.

Washington broke off military ties with Indonesia after pro-Jakarta militias went on the rampage in East Timor during and after the province's vote for independence from Indonesia in 1999.

It has insisted that those responsible must be held accountable before normal ties can resume.

Refugees in East Timor, 1999
Many thought responsible for East Timor's 1999 bloodshed walk free
US officials have expressed disappointment at the outcome of Indonesian tribunals set up to try those accused.

Last week, a court overturned a conviction against Abilio Soares, the last Indonesian governor of East Timor and the only man jailed over the violence. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3998821.stm :okay: :okay:

Yamauchi

November 23rd, 2004, 06:35 AM

How is that good news or a thumbs up? The United States was preparing to provide hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid and lift the arms embargo, but it was rejected by the US congress because of East Timor and the Papuan incident. Now we see the Indonesian armed services being very unprofessional, such as a few months ago when getting in an argument they went and got their buddies, loaded up in a truck, and slaughtered some civilians.

So, the Indonesian people suffer under an unprofessional army, and the armed services suffer from the lack of needed equipment because of this man's pride. I was hoping Indonesia would enter a new era, but now my hopes are a bit crushed. Every great power has gotten to their position by utilizing the superpowers for their benefit. That's just a simple study of politics and economics.

macgyver

November 23rd, 2004, 06:50 AM

How is that good news or a thumbs up? The United States was preparing to provide hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid and lift the arms embargo, but it was rejected by the US congress because of East Timor and the Papuan incident. Now we see the Indonesian armed services being very unprofessional, such as a few months ago when getting in an argument they went and got their buddies, loaded up in a truck, and slaughtered some civilians.

Please Try to compare ...
Bombing many innocent people in the Mousque.
Bombing people who celebrate marriage party.
Bring Millions of millions... of innocent poeple in uncertainty condition.

That What people always see .....
If there is a single or some Indonesia military doing not proper action, they pictured it and tape it .... then distribute everywhere ......... as suggest that all Indonesia military do the same thing.

While ....

When ...Others .... ???

Ruler rule the world
Ruler rule the value
Ruler rule the news
Ruler rule everything rudely .....

( I hope you know what I mean by ruler )

Once Again ... Supporting Mr Yuwono .... :cheers:

macgyver

November 23rd, 2004, 07:54 AM

Selasa, 23 November 2004
Berita: Menhan Keberatan Penuhi Syarat Amerika Serikat

Berita UmumJAKARTA (Media): Menteri Pertahanan Juwono Sudarsono keberatan jika dalam rangka pemulihan kerja sama militer Indonesia-Amerika Serikat, termasuk pembukaan embargo, dirinya harus menskorsing orang-orang yang dinilai terlibat dalam kasus Timor Timur (Timtim) dan Timika, Papua.

Pernyataan itu disampaikan Menhan dalam konferensi pers yang digelar di kantor Departemen Pertahanan, Jakarta, kemarin. ''Salah satu butir dari lima persyaratan yang diajukan pihak AS ada yang agak saya tolak, yakni ketika mereka meminta saya sebagai Menhan untuk menskors para tersangka dalam peristiwa Timtim dan insiden penembakan di Timika, Papua, pada Agustus 2002,'' ungkap Juwono.

Alasan pernyataan keberatan itu, menurut Juwono, karena hal yang terkait dengan kedua kasus itu merupakan urusan internal pengadilan Indonesia. Selain itu, sambung dia, dirinya memang tidak berkenan melayani desakan-desakan dari pihak luar.

Selain permintaan untuk memberikan skorsing, lanjut Juwono, AS juga mengajukan persyaratan agar ada transparansi dalam penggunaan anggaran oleh Dephan dan Markas Besar TNI. Padahal, menurut Juwono hal itu tergolong rawan karena menimbulkan kesulitan tersendiri bagi pihak Indonesia untuk meyakinkan pihak AS, terutama para anggota Kongres dari beberapa negara bagian tertentu di negara Paman Sam tersebut.

AS mulai mengembargo pembelian senjata dan suku cadang oleh Indonesia sejak kasus Timtim tahun 1999. Saat ini, pemerintah Indonesia berniat untuk memulihkan kerja sama militer, khususnya dalam rangka pembelian suku cadang dan persenjataan dari AS.

Terkait upaya itu, Juwono menandaskan bahwa pihaknya berada pada posisi sesuai prinsip hubungan luar negeri Indonesia, yakni bebas aktif yang diterjemahkannya sebagai langkah untuk mempertimbangkan terlebih dulu seluruh syarat AS, kendati tidak dimungkiri bahwa Indonesia memang berkeinginan untuk menjalin kerja sama.

''Jadi, kita tetap akan melihat dulu apakah semua syarat harus ditanggapi. Karena sebagai negara berdaulat, Indonesia harus meneliti dulu satu per satu kelayakannya,'' tuturnya.

Seperti diberitakan Media, kemarin, persyaratan yang sama juga diajukan oleh Presiden AS George W Bush dalam pertemuannya dengan Presiden Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, di sela-sela pertemuan Forum Kerja Sama Ekonomi Asia-Pasifik (APEC) di Santiago, Cile. Bush mengatakan AS sangat berkeinginan memulihkan kerja sama militer kedua negara, namun dia mensyaratkan penyelesaian kasus Timika.

Diungkapkan oleh Juwono, sebenarnya pemulihan kerja sama militer Indonesia-AS sudah bisa dimulai dalam waktu dekat. Jika saja, sambung dia, Presiden George Walker Bush menyatakan bahwa masalah yang ditudingkan Kongres AS terhadap Indonesia sudah selesai.

''Tetapi, sesuai sistem di AS, Presiden Bush harus mempertimbangkan suara dari senat AS, terutama senator dari beberapa negara bagian. Sedangkan para senator itu sendiri menang dikenal memiliki lobi HAM yang sangat kuat di sana. Misalnya dari Wisconsin yang sejak lama memang sudah menjadi langganan sebagai penggugat Indonesia,'' katanya.

Kendati keadaannya demikian, Juwono mengaku, tetap akan berangkat ke AS sekitar bulan Maret atau April 2005, dan berupaya menemui sejumlah anggota Kongres. Dalam pertemuan tersebut, kata Juwono, dia akan berusaha menjelaskan persoalan HAM di Indonesia.

''Agenda saya ke sana adalah untuk menjelaskan kepada Kongres. Karena dalam sistem mereka, Kongres memang ikut menentukan apa yang perlu dibantu, misalnya untuk Indonesia, dalam kaitan dengan militer.''

Senjata Libya

Sementara itu, ketika ditanya ihwal tawaran penjualan pesawat tempur dari Libya yang disampaikan putra pemimpin Libya Moamar Khadafi beberapa waktu lalu, Direktur Jenderal Sarana Pertahanan (Ranahan) Dephan Mayjen (Purn) Aqlani Maza menyatakan bahwa tawaran tersebut baru sebatas wacana. ''Tawaran itu belum disampaikan secara spesifik ke Dephan. Karena itu, Dephan belum bisa menanggapi.''

Seperti diberitakan sebelumnya, dalam pertemuan yang digelar Ketua Umum Pimpinan Pusat Muhammadiyah Syafii Maarif, beberapa petinggi TNI Angkatan Udara (AU), serta pengusaha Dedy Yulianto dengan Saeifel el Islam Khadafi terungkap minat TNI AU untuk membeli delapan pesawat tempur milik Libya yang diembargo AS, sejak 1972. Disebutkan dalam pertemuan yang berlangsung di Hotel Mulia, pada 9 November 2004, pesawat tempur milik Libya itu berada di Georgia dan belum pernah digunakan sama sekali.

Lebih jauh diingatkan Aqlani, dalam sebuah rencana pembelian persenjataan militer ataupun suku cadang persenjataan, yang ditinjau bukan sekadar harganya, melainkan harus pula disertai dengan pertimbangan-pertimbangan lain, seperti masalah teknis dan taktis.(Nur/P-6)

http://www.dephan.go.id/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6166

macgyver

November 23rd, 2004, 07:56 AM

Corvette Production
State-owned shipbuilding company PT PAL Indonesia said it will build a navy corvette at a cost of $40 million in cooperation with 12 other state-owned and private companies.

The corvette to be completed in 2007 will be the first built in the country, PT PAL President H. Suryohadiprodjo said.

He said most of the components are expected to be supplied by state-owned companies PT Krakatau Steel, PT Pindad, PT Inti, PT Len, PT Dirgantara Indonesia, PT Inka, PT Brata, and PT Pupuk Kaltim, as well as private companies PT Texmaco, PT Maspion Indalex, PT Mastrada Surya Surabaya and PT Guna Elektro Tadakara.

The 80.4 meter long and 12.2 meter wide warship will be built by PT PAL, designed jointly with Orrizonte Sistem Navali S.P.A (Ficantieri Shipyard) and Italian Navy Corvette, reported Antara.

http://www.laksamana.net/vnews.cfm?ncat=36&news_id=7593

David-80

November 23rd, 2004, 02:28 PM

No matter what, Indonesia is really need to resume US military ties, When you learned the cost of mantainance and spare parts of NON US arms, you will understand why. The cost of Sukhoi itself, pretty much expensive for a country like Indonesia. India and China that have many sukhois in their fleet are asking more budgets for its 5th generation fighter operation cost. Yet, you also need to really adapt the culture of back in russian era. That lead to consider re-install and re-build the whole system for supporting the operation. Because most of the system installed in Indonesian forces command are western made. TNI is also in need for logistic and transport operation, the hercules are only 50% in operation, we have conflict in Aceh and most of eastern province, that needed a rapid reaction operational commands.

US arms companies are famous with its flexibility and good customers services. Thats why Suharto is choosing F-16s in 1989. Even for a country like Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia which are islamic country, they also choosing US fighters.

I am not always pro-US, but in this case, we really need to get the military ties resumed, I spoke with someone in the airforce during the wedding of my friend and he told me, nothing beats The US when it comes to maintainances.

Does the russian mechanics will go to Indonesia when some problems occured in one of the devices? I doubt so. Try that to the US company, they will be there right away less than 3 days.

Why i can told you this? My uncle is working for USAF and hes everywhere around the world everytime a country needed. He was in Saudi Arabia working to fix the saudi F-15s along with Mcdonald douglas mechanics before they merged with Boeing, then Indonesia with the lockheed guys for the F-16s and moved back to Honolulu in 2000 until finally hes now relocating to Guam for the pacific central command, in case North Korea plays dirty in Asia.

Finally, I am wishing the Military ties resumes soon, its a sad thing to see Indonesia, which is the front of the war on terror is not properly armed. Look at Pakistan, Saudi, Egypt, Israel, Turkey and many others....they got at least hundreds of US fighters and military arms.

Mac, I know you feel The US is unfair, you're right, I think they do. But you cant fight the giant with anger and revenge, instead work together with them and if the time comes, the giant will finally surrender. Not because of the war but from his own action.

Cheers

Yamauchi

November 23rd, 2004, 08:58 PM

Please Try to compare ...
Bombing many innocent people in the Mousque.
Bombing people who celebrate marriage party.
Bring Millions of millions... of innocent poeple in uncertainty condition.

That What people always see .....
If there is a single or some Indonesia military doing not proper action, they pictured it and tape it .... then distribute everywhere ......... as suggest that all Indonesia military do the same thing.

While ....

When ...Others .... ???

Ruler rule the world
Ruler rule the value
Ruler rule the news
Ruler rule everything rudely .....

( I hope you know what I mean by ruler )

Once Again ... Supporting Mr Yuwono .... :cheers:

macgyver, I'm not arguing with you that the United States does many terrible things. Of course it does. I'm saying that for the sake of the military Indonesia should deal with these issues.

Do you think General Musharraf likes being told what to do by the US? He is in control of a 97% Muslim nation which is much more hostile to America than Indonesia is, and he is not even democratically elected. Yet, because he has been willing to swallow some pride US congress yesterday passed $300 million in military aid for 2005 and another $1.1 billion in discounted military sales.

If you think the Indonesian military cares about the ethics of the USA, ask them why they are going to Israel for F-16 parts. This is my point. We have to set those things aside and go for the good of the defense.

Alvin

November 24th, 2004, 11:02 AM

Indonesia hosts major arms expo as concern over military abuses persist

Tue Nov 23, 9:22 PM ET Asia - AFP

JAKARTA (AFP) - A major defence industry showcase has opened in Indonesia, moving the country closer to the high-tech weapons it wants to fight militants and crush rebels but doing little to ease concerns of those who want it held to account for past military abuses.

AFP/File Photo

The four-day expo comes as Jakarta is struggling to overhaul its military under a US embargo imposed in response to abuses by Indonesia's armed forces in insurgency-hit Papua and Aceh and during East Timor (news - web sites)'s 1999 independence vote.

Although it has begun to restore military ties, Washington says Jakarta has yet to atone for atrocities, particularly after the release and acquittal of security personnel and officials convicted over the East Timor violence.

Indonesia is keen to open new supply channels for its military as it pursues an offensive against rebels in the western province of Aceh and efforts to combat Islamic militants blamed for a series of bombings.

New Defence Minister Juwono Sudarsono said earlier this week the exhibition was not directly aimed at replenishing the country's armouries but would help forge contacts for future deals.

During former president Megawati Sukarnoputri's administration, Indonesia had purchased Russian Sukhoi jets and helicopters and Korean submarines.

The expo, to be opened by President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, features fighter jets, boats, vehicles and guns made by 250 leading firms from 28 countries, including leading arms-makers from Germany, Poland, Russia and South Korea (news - web sites).

Alongside prominent names Siemens, Korea Aerospace Industries, Daewoo Precision Industries and Singapore Technologies Kinetics, Indonesia's own defence manufacturers are fielding a formidable array of hardware.

On display is an Indonesian navy boat named after Nasi island, an area that came under attack last year in the offensive against separatists in Aceh, where human rights groups accuse the military of torturing captives and killing civilians.

Activists say the arms expo will do little to remove stains from Jakarta's human rights record and could even help revive military dominance in a country that, until recently, bowed to the demands of its armed forces.

"I am not convinced that the exhibition will help to repair Indonesia's image as a country that has terrible human rights records," said Bonar Tigor Naipospos of the Solidamor human rights advocacy group.

He told AFP the military, which has had its financial wings clipped by recent legislation, would use the exhibition to show the government that its equipment was obsolete and in need of replacement by routes other than the United States.

Despite satisfying the US attorney general that rebels rather than its soldiers were behind a 2003 ambush in Papua which left two American teachers dead -- a version disputed by rights groups -- Indonesia has yet to convince Washington it is fully back on-side.

In October former US ambassador for Indonesia Ralph Boyce said Jakarta had "missed its opportunity" to restore military ties by failing to make its soldiers accountable for the violence in East Timor that left 1,400 people dead.

Of 18 people, mostly military and police officers, sentenced by an Indonesian tribunal investigating the bloodshed, all have had their convictions overturned or been freed on appeal.

Human rights groups say the tribunal was a sham set up to deflect calls for an international inquiry into the carnage during which whole towns were razed to the ground as the country voted overwhelmingly to separate from Indonesia.

In Jakarta's latest snub to international demands, the defence minister on Monday said his country had no intention of bowing to pressure for further trials.

"I have stressed that that is a matter of the internal judicial court of Indonesia and Indonesia will not heed calls that are based on their (United States) own regulations," Sudarsono said.

macgyver

November 24th, 2004, 12:07 PM

Indonesia hosts major arms expo as concern over military abuses persist

"I have stressed that that is a matter of the internal judicial court of Indonesia and Indonesia will not heed calls that are based on their (United States) own regulations," Sudarsono said.

Yes .... Agree Sir ... :-)
:)

David-80

November 24th, 2004, 02:28 PM

Juwono might said that in the press but you never know behind the doors...SBY is really looking forward to resume the US military ties. Yamauchi is right, Does Indonesia is really care with that, I doubt so. A-4 Skyhawks and it spare parts are coming from Israel, The intelligence school in Batam have some former mossaids agents teaching there, the airforce Boeing MPA and GMF are working together with Israeli company.

cheers

David-80

November 24th, 2004, 02:31 PM

Wednesday November 24, 6:27 PM

Indonesia may buy Russian fighters, will push for lifting of U.S. ban on weapons sales

Indonesia is considering buying up to 12 fighter bombers from Russia, and the nation's defense minister will go to the United States next year to push for the lifting of a ban on weapon sales, officials said Wednesday.

The embargo and a resulting lack of spare parts has led to the breakdown of many of Indonesia's American-made weapons. The ban was imposed in 1999 after Indonesian troops and their proxy militias killed nearly 1,500 people in East Timor.

Jakarta has made repeated efforts to have the embargo lifted. It gained the support of the Bush administration, which sees the Indonesian armed forces as a key ally in the fight against terror, but the U.S. Congress has rejected the move.

"I will make a trip to Washington, D.C., in March in an effort to reopen military ties with the United States," Defense Minister Juwono Sudarsono said on the sidelines of a military hardware expo. "If this is not fruitful, we will consider acquiring military equipment from other countries."

But the director general of strategic defense, Maj. Gen. Sudrajat, said the country was already considering buying up to 12 high-performance fighter bombers from Russia. Last year, it bought four Russian-built Sukhoi SU-27 long-range fighters.

He would not say when Indonesia may buy the new planes or how much the deal would be worth.

Indonesia has sought to forge ties with possible alternative weapons suppliers because of the U.S. embargo.

Officials said the Indo Defense 2004 Expo and Forum, the biggest military expo in Indonesia since the fall of ex-dictator Suharto in 1998, gives the country an opportunity to find suppliers to replace obsolete equipment and bolster its military forces, which are battling separatist rebellions at both ends of the country.

The expo runs until Nov. 27 and features 250 companies from 24 countries hawking fighter jets, tanks, weaponry and ammunition

Alvin

November 24th, 2004, 03:02 PM

http://www.kompas.com/koleksifoto/0411//big4112407.jpg http://www.kompas.com/koleksifoto/0411//big4112406.jpg http://www.kompas.com/koleksifoto/0411//big4112408.jpg http://www.kompas.com/koleksifoto/0411//big4112409.jpg http://www.kompas.com/koleksifoto/0411//big4112411.jpg http://www.kompas.com/koleksifoto/0411//big4112410.jpg

macgyver

November 24th, 2004, 03:12 PM

Juwono might said that in the press but you never know behind the doors...

Yup You never know :-) ... coudl be yes could be no, right ?

SBY is really looking forward to resume the US military ties.

Agree :-)

Yamauchi is right, Does Indonesia is really care with that, I doubt so.

Well, I have different Opinion, Boleh Khan ... :-)

A-4 Skyhawks and it spare parts are coming from Israel, The intelligence school in Batam have some former mossaids agents teaching there, the airforce Boeing MPA and GMF are working together with Israeli company.

cheers

Agree .... Me too, ... selling Israeli Products ... he he he ...

My Point is ....
Kalo Amerika memaksakan kehendak ya kita khan punya harga diri ...
Kita beli aja dari lain negara ....
Jadi peralatan militer kita berasal dari beberapa negara sehingga tidaak dengan mudah dipermainkan oleh satu negara ....

I always remember someone says .....

Whatever US can Make, ....
We Can make ..... with much lower price .... :-) ....
IT IS CHINA ....

We'll see China in 2100 .....
Hope the next is INDIA ... en ... our beloved country INDONESIA .....

:cheers:

bahar

November 24th, 2004, 03:12 PM

So, the Indonesian people suffer under an unprofessional army, and the armed services suffer from the lack of needed equipment because of this man's pride. I was hoping Indonesia would enter a new era, but now my hopes are a bit crushed. Every great power has gotten to their position by utilizing the superpowers for their benefit. That's just a simple study of politics and economics.

Having been living in Singapore for a couple of years, I really appreciate Yamauchi's statement Every great power has gotten to their position by utilizing the superpowers for their benefit. Being a tiny country, Singapore plays its part smart by balancing the influence of world powers such us the US, China, and increasingly India (due to the fact that India is gaining importance in world economy.

The Indonesian goverment, being the administrator of the world's most populous muslim country, should play its role smart too. Alienating the US due to public popular public view will be unproductive.

A country will progress forward if it's economy and international relations are run by experts, not public consensus.

David-80

November 24th, 2004, 03:13 PM

Thales to Supply Key Systems for New Corvettes Indonesian Navy Worth €60m

Tuesday, November 02, 2004 10:43

The shipyard Royal Schelde and Thales recently signed several contracts for the delivery of a wide range of products that are to be installed on the two corvettes that Royal Schelde will build for the Indonesian Navy.

Thales will supply the ship's above-water defence system, the communication equipment and the sonar system. The value of the contracts amounts to approximately 60 million euros. The first ship is expected to be commissioned mid 2007.

The corvettes will be deployed by the Indonesian Navy mainly for patrol duties in the Indonesian archipelago in order to counter smuggling, illegal fishery and piracy, especially in the Strait of Malacca. One of the deciding factors for this contract is the good relation between the Indonesian Navy and Thales, based on the experience gained with the NAV5 patrol boats that were commissioned between 2000 and 2004.

The above water defence systems to be installed on the corvettes include: the TACTICOS scaleable combat management system, the MW08 3D multibeam surveillance radar, the LIROD Mk2 tracking radar, the LINK Y Mk2 datalink system and Target Designation Sights. For under water defence capability, the Thales Kingklip medium frequency active/passive Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) hull-mounted sonar has been selected. The naval communication system of the corvettes has been developed by Thales in Germany, based on the FOCON system. Thales will perform the complete combat system integration of these corvettes. To operate this sophisticated equipment, the future crew of the ships will be trained in the Netherlands by Thales. Thales expects to be able to keep playing a substantial role in the safety of the Indonesian archipelago.

About Thales Thales is the only non-US company capable of providing and integrating a comprehensive naval defence system for a variety of ship classes. Recent tests have proved Thales' leading position in defence missile control capabilities. Thales is an international electronics and systems group, serving defence, aerospace and security markets. The group employs about 62,000 people worldwide and generated revenues of 10.6 billion euro in 2003. - Thales

http://img123.exs.cx/img123/8889/indocorvette.jpg
http://www.naval-technology.com/contractor_images/thales5/Lirod-

Fir3blaze

November 24th, 2004, 03:37 PM

Wednesday November 24, 6:27 PM

But the director general of strategic defense, Maj. Gen. Sudrajat, said the country was already considering buying up to 12 high-performance fighter bombers from Russia. Last year, it bought four Russian-built Sukhoi SU-27 long-range fighters.

He would not say when Indonesia may buy the new planes or how much the deal would be worth.

Hee...which fighter-bomber do you think will be purchased? I have a nagging feeling that it'll be SU-32 (the export derivative of Su-34). I think the Su-34 is an impressive aircraft, particularly from the way it looks. Anyone know about it performs?

David-80

November 24th, 2004, 03:49 PM

It should be SU-30MKK and SU-27SK, I doubt about the SU-34. I have the details of the products that the russian offered. Its Su-27sk, su-30MK, su-34 and SU-37. Later i will post for you guys.

Cheers

Fir3blaze

November 24th, 2004, 03:54 PM

I think that both Yama and Mac's argument are sensible. all we need is balance, for both internal and external relationship. Meaning that while you balance relationship with other countries, as a government you must also carefully balances relationship with the population as well. That's how politics work. If you don't please your public, you might find yourself losing the next election. On the other hand if you don't please uncle Sam, you can't live (at least it's very hard economically).

Why the US senate continues to be hard on us and why Bush administration wants to resume military cooperation are all due to politics. Does any of them truly care for the welfare of the Indonesian people? I sincerely doubt that.

David-80

November 24th, 2004, 04:20 PM

Here is the detail!

Rosoboronexport; issued Nov. 23, 2004)

On November 24-27, 2004, the first Indo Defence'2004 Expo & Forum International Exhibition of armaments and military equipment will be held in the Indonesian capital of Jakarta. It is expected that about six thousand foreign guests will visit this exhibition organized by the Ministry of Defence of Indonesia.

At the exhibition, there will also be a conference titled "Regional Defence Strategies: Cooperation in a Changing World". The Exhibition will demonstrate practically the whole range of armaments and military equipment used in Land Forces, Air Force and the Navy. Special emphasis will be placed upon special technical means, special weapons and security systems.

The Rosoboronexport State Corporation will represent Russia at this exhibition, organizing a common exposition of about dozen leading producers of home defense industries.

The Russian exposition segment devoted to combat and transport aviation has been prepared taking into account requirements of commanding staff of Asian armed forces. The exposition will display the whole export range of the Su family of aircraft, including the Su-27SK, Su-30 multi-purpose fighters and Su-39 multi-purpose attack aircraft with the Kopie radar sighting system. The display will help guests and participants to acquaint themselves with the unique capabilities of the Mig-31E fighter-interceptor and Yak-130 combat training aircraft.

The Russian display will provide much information on combat attack, assault and reconnaissance Mil and Kamov helicopters, namely: the Mi-28NE combat helicopter, Mi-35, Mi-35P, Mi-35 combat helicopters, Mi-17-1V assault helicopter and Ka-31 radar patrol helicopter.

The unique capabilities of the Mi-28NE combat helicopter is certain to spur interest among experts since it is capable of performing combat missions day and night, at critical low altitudes. The Mi-26 heavy combat transport helicopter could also be at the center of attention since it provides excellent maneuverability even when loaded with troops with all their combat materiel. It can also transport large lots of cargo up to 20 tons.

At the Russian display one can also learn about the performance of the Mi-35M combat transport helicopter, which is a modification of the famous M-35 combat transport helicopter. Due to additional gun armament, the Mi-35M helicopter can more effectively destroy enemy armored materiel and provide better fire support for the army.

The Corporation exposition will display various models of Air Defence systems – from the portable Igla to the S-300 long-range systems. Experts and guests of the Exhibition will have a chance to get acquainted in particular with the capabilities of the S-300VM Antey-2500 missile system - the only system in the world that can engage both ballistic missiles with launching ranges of up to 2500 km and all types of aerodynamic and aero ballistic targets, as well as the latest S-300 PMU2 Favorit SAM system.

Visitors will get detailed information on such middle and low-range air defense missile systems as the Buk 1-2 and Pechora-2, Tunguska-1, Osa-AKM, Igla portable air-defense missile system.

Foreign customers may also be interested in the Zoopark missile and artillery locating radar system, Fara-1 portable guidance and surveillance radar system, Credo-1 unified ground moving target surveillance radar and Gazetchik-E system to be used to protect radar systems against homing rockets.

Army systems' exposition includes a broad range of tanks, infantry combat vehicles, and armored personnel carriers of all generations, landing-troop combat vehicles, armored recovery vehicles, multiple rocket systems, self-propelled artillery guns and howitzers, anti-tank rocket and anti-aircraft gun/missile systems, small arms and close-combat weapons. These are also tanks such as T-90S, upgraded T-72M1 tank equipped with foreign-made fire control system and infrared sight, PT-76B light amphibious tank, BMP-3 and BMP-3F infantry combat vehicles, BTR-90, BTR-80 and BTR-80 armored personnel carriers, Msta-S 152-mm self-propelled howitzer 2S19, as well as Kornet-E and Metis-M1 anti-tank rocket systems.

The Corporation's representatives will brief visitors on well-known upgraded MLR systems. Being the top-of-the-line, Grad and Smerch multiple rocket systems are capable of destroying practically all types of today's ground targets with minimum consumption of rockets within the shortest period of time and at high accuracy. Russian designers are also offering a variant of using multiple rocket systems in conjunction with Pchela-1 remotely piloted vehicles. They believe that this will allow a target to be detected and engaged in real time and standard combat performances will be greatly improved.

Experts may also obtain comprehensive information on a wide range of the Russian infantry combat vehicles, including upgraded BMP-2 and BMP-3. The BMP-3F infantry combat vehicle is the most attractive amphibious version of the well-known Russian BMP. Design modifications now allow these vehicles to move in water and to easily move onto the shore/bank at water/sea state of up to 3, to be afloat for seven hours with the engine operating and to conduct firing at preset accuracy at water/sea state of up to 2. The upgraded PT-76B light amphibious tank has the same characteristics.

Naval military equipment and armaments will also occupy one of the central places at the Russian exposition. Foreign customer will be offered small submarines capable of operating in shallow waters, such as the Pirania, Pirania-1, Pirania-2, Korsar patrol ship of 11541 design, and Mirazh, Merkuri and Mangust patrol boats. We believe that landing air-cushion boats such as Murena-E and Chilim might spur interest among visitors.

Alongside combat ships, the Russian exposition will also offer a wide range of various systems of armament, most of which have no analogues abroad. These are the Uran-E ship-borne missile system with the KH-35E anti-ship missiles, ship-borne missile system with the Yakhont anti-ship wing missiles, ship-borne air defense systems like Rif-, Shtil and Klinok and other missile, ammunition, torpedo and mine armaments.

Rosoboronexport State Corporation will represent the most competitive models of troop- and special-purpose small arms. Among the exhibits, are the Kashtan and Bizon-2 pistol-machineguns. Visitors will also be interested in such world famous models of highly effective small arms as Kalashnikov's sub-machineguns including upgraded versions of 101, 102, 103 and 104 of 5.56mm and 7.62mm calibers, SVD and SVDS sniper rifles of Dragunov's system. The Corporation's display will help visitors to acquaint with SPP pistol and APS sub-machinegun to be used for underwater firing. It is characterized by high penetration ability. This weapon may be also used on land.

Participation of Russia represented by the Rosoboronexport State Corporation at the first Indo Defence'2004 Expo & Forum International Exhibition in Indonesia demonstrates its interest in promoting actively, the sale of Russian weaponry in market and to continue strengthening of military and technical cooperation with all the countries of South-East Asia.

David-80

November 24th, 2004, 04:26 PM

Here is what I heard, S-300 missiles system and the Igla missiles are on the table for the Army. Kh-31 missiles is also on its way forNI AU. The navy will eventually choose BMP-3P for the Marines.

Man if we buy the S-300....the threat of air bombardment is easing....S-300 is practicaly in the same level of Patriot missiles, or slightly above.

Cheers

Yamauchi

November 24th, 2004, 11:15 PM

Yeah, S-300s are awesome. They're expensive but worth it.

The Su-34 is apparently a great fighter, otherwise Russia would not have chosen it to be the core of its AF. It's pretty obvious Indonesia needs to stick with the 27/30, though.

macgyver

November 25th, 2004, 04:15 AM

http://wmilitary.neurok.ru/s300pmu/s300pmu-s.gif
http://www.russiajournal.com/wpics/2003.6.11.Sb.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/130000/images/_131699_Copy_of_russian_S300_missiles_10-7-98.jpg
http://www.defensys.ru/images/pmu1.jpg
http://www.defensys.ru/images/s300_favorit.gif

From the look , It looks OLD ....
I prefer Patriot ... :-) :)

David-80

November 25th, 2004, 01:42 PM

Mac, Russian hardwares always looks old but they're fearsome, S-300 is slightly ahead of patriot in terms of capability.

Vietnam is the new customer for S-300 just this year.

Cheers

Fir3blaze

November 25th, 2004, 05:26 PM

Thing is that the S-300 system was orignated back in the 70s if im not wrong. However, there have been many variants after that. The one that Vietnam bought is one of the relatively more advanced variant. Hope if Indonesia is getting the system, we can get at least the same as Vietnam.

@Dave, yeah, i agree..the S-300 is a very effective form of air defence.

David-80

November 25th, 2004, 06:14 PM

Indonesia have RBS-70 and Rapier for their SAM system, its quite advanced though but its time to change those system....

After we bought the S-300 and Igla, lets put it on 6 important spots

Jakarta.
Biak
Balikpapan
Malang
Makassar
Medan

what do you think?

Hey fir3blaze, i posted an article about jetstar asia route to Surabaya, its a good news for you dude. Its getting cheaper!

Cheers

macgyver

November 26th, 2004, 04:48 AM

Fir3blaze

November 26th, 2004, 05:52 AM

Hey fir3blaze, i posted an article about jetstar asia route to Surabaya, its a good news for you dude. Its getting cheaper!

Yeah man! good news...i need to start flying cheaper (save some money)...

Alvin

November 27th, 2004, 02:26 AM

Russia cozies up to RI defense industry
Tiarma Siboro, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

Russia has said it is willing to provide Indonesia all the assistance it wants in developing its weaponry systems and defense industry.

"If Indonesia can absorb the technology -- which I think is possible -- then developing a cooperation between Russia and Indonesian state aircraft maker PT DI can become a reality," Anatoly Yo Voronkov, chief expert at Sukhoi's Aviation Holding Company, told The Jakarta Post on Friday.

He was referring to PT Dirgantara Indonesia.

Russia, according to Vorokov, would provide incentives for Indonesia to purchase aircraft from it, including generous conditions in the contracts.

"It's okay for us to adopt a countertrade mechanism," said Vorokov, adding that rubber, tin and palm oil were among the Indonesian commodities in high demand in Russia.

Indonesia was forced to seek alternative arms suppliers following a weapons embargo imposed by the United States after the Santa Cruz massacre in East Timor in 1992.

The U.S. maintained the embargo following 1999 atrocities after East Timor voted to break away from Indonesia in a United Nations-sponsored referendum.

Indonesia has purchased four Sukhoi jet fighters from Russia and is planning to purchase more next year.

Under founding president Sukarno, the newly independent Indonesia developed a close relationship with Russia and procured some military equipment from that country, including 14 submarines, missile carriers and torpedo boats.

Due to ideological differences, those close ties chilled when Soeharto took over power in 1966.

Promising that politics would not affect business ties between Indonesia and Russia, Voronkov said Indonesia's military was a potential partner in future trades.

"Let's leave political matters to our governments, while we deal with defense technology," he said.

At the ongoing Indo Defense 2004 Expo and Forum, Russia has the biggest pavilion, accommodating 24 companies, including producers of Kalashnikov rifles and Sukhoi jets.

The Indo Defense 2004 Expo and Forum is the biggest military expo ever held in Indonesia. It runs from Nov. 24 to Nov. 27 and features 250 companies from 24 countries.

Roman Nikolaev from Izhmash, which produces the Kalashnikov, said Russia's politics had never affected business matters.

The company produces AK rifles, the latest version being the AK-102 to AK-104 series. Many of these weapons have been offered to Indonesian security forces, in addition to the popular Bizon 2-01 submachine gun.

A submachine gun is an automatic rifle that can fire 53 bullets with one pull of the trigger.

Indonesia has developed the Army's munitions manufacturer, PT Pindad, which produces the SS-1 rifle in cooperation with neighboring Malaysia.

David-80

December 14th, 2004, 02:07 PM

Are you ready for national service? Dec 14, 2004

Indonesia plans to impose military draft

Controversial Bill calls for mandatory service for citizens between 18 and 45
By Devi Asmarani
Indonesia Correspondent

JAKARTA - INDONESIA is planning mandatory military service for its citizens in a bid to beef up the country's defence forces.

Under a controversial Bill, submitted to Parliament last week, all male citizens between the ages of 18 and 45 will be required to join the military reservists for a period of at least five years or face a jail term of up to two years.

The Defence Ministry has been working on the Bill for the past two years.

The new Parliament will start debating it when it resumes next year.

It is aimed at strengthening the Indonesian armed forces (TNI) to 'maintain territorial integrity, the nation's sovereignty and protect the nation from security threats'.

According to the Bill, a copy of which was obtained by The Straits Times, a recruitment committee will be set up at the central and regional levels to begin registering those eligible.

They will be put through mental and health tests before they are given stints of 30-day basic military training every year.

The reservists will be ranked according to a military grading system and must serve a five-year term, which they can extend for another five years.

They will be deployed in wars or military-emergency areas.

The director-general of Defence Potential in the Defence Ministry, First Admiral Dharmawan, said: 'We are targeting about 800,000 people to join as reservists - which still pales in comparison to the 200 million people in Indonesia.'

A survey by the International Institute for Strategic Studies shows that Indonesia has a smaller military force in proportion to its population compared to neighbouring countries such as Vietnam and Thailand.

With 297,000 military personnel, the ratio is one soldier to 694 people, compared to one in 169 people in Vietnam.

Compounded with the country's vast territory and its challenging geography, this also means that one Indonesian soldier must guard about 6 sq km, while in Thailand, one soldier guards an average of 2 sq km.

Defence analyst Hari Prihatono told The Straits Times that misguided defence policies of former president Suharto - which emphasised the strengthening of the army to deal with internal threats of separatism and political dissidents - had contributed to its current state.

The army has also had to suffer in the past decade because of the United States military embargo that followed allegations of human rights abuses carried out by the Indonesian military in the former East Timor.

But some observers are worried that under the reservist system, millions of unemployed Indonesians could get training, raising the possibility of some of them using their skills to commit crimes.

Said Mr Hari: 'Without an effective and sophisticated recruitment system, we could end up giving street thugs military training.'

That apart, observers are questioning the urgency of having the military reservists when there is no clear external threat at the moment.

'We are not in war nor do we have enemy, and I assume in the next five to 10 years we will not likely have such threats,' said Mr Hari.

'Instead of spending the money, which we don't have, on drafting civilians, we should instead upgrade the weaponry and equipment, and improve training to have more professional soldiers.'

Yamauchi

December 14th, 2004, 08:43 PM

That's possibly the dumbest idea I've ever heard. I could write a lot about it, but Mr Hari said all that really needs to be said.

David-80

December 15th, 2004, 02:18 PM

Not just dumb but its really lame. It could also turns backlash for the Military. What happen if the youngsters that were trained can possibly turns to be terrorists or have their skills to help the rebels in Aceh?

If the Military needs man power, they can just pick guys from any other semi-military organisation like Satpam or Hansip. They got their training like what the military does.

cheers

sanhen

December 15th, 2004, 02:38 PM

Lol.
Its too early for Indonesia to do this kind of military service.
Even between ethnic there's fighting...
David is right, it could be backslashed

Ara

December 16th, 2004, 10:18 PM

Good idea if we are going to invade another country or we are being invaded by another country. Since neither is happening, this is a dumb idea. The threats we are faced with doesnot require a large military force. Instead, we need our military to be small and mobile to move from one spot to another and take care of the problem. We do not need a large military. Our external military operations are peacekeeping operations. Last time I check, nobody in their right mind will send reservist for peacekeeping operations. Dumb idea, beside, I don't think I can survive boot camp at my current fitness.

Yamauchi

December 21st, 2004, 07:55 AM

Daewoo International wins US$150 million orders from Indonesia

SEOUL (Reuters): South Korea's Daewoo International Corp. said on Tuesday it has won ship orders worth $150 million from Indonesia's navy.

The deal would provide for the supply of four landing platform docks starting from January next year, the company said in a statement.

sanhen

December 21st, 2004, 08:13 AM

Mac, Russian hardwares always looks old but they're fearsome, S-300 is slightly ahead of patriot in terms of capability.

Vietnam is the new customer for S-300 just this year.

Cheers

I remember some proverb...

"America might have good computers, but Russian has great math".

hahaha

Yamauchi

January 9th, 2005, 12:07 AM

Indonesia cancels Sukhoi purchase after tsunami

[World News]: Jakarta, Jan 7 : Indonesia said Friday it has dropped plans to buy a squadron of Russian-made Sukhoi jetfighters worth Rupiah 8 trillion (around $890 million) because of the Dec 26 tsunami disaster in Aceh.

Defence Minister Juwono Sudarsono said here he had ordered Military Chief General Endriartono Sutarto to drop the Sukhoi proposal already submitted to the House of Representatives.

"We delay the purchase of war machines due to the disaster. We will shift the spending to personnel carriers such as helicopters," he said.

But the government will possibly renew the proposal in the next three years, Sudarsono said.

Indonesia has already bought four Sukhois, but the military has recommended the government to acquire at least one squadron (12 planes) this year.

Indo-Asian News Service

Yamauchi

January 11th, 2005, 10:33 AM

Seven C-130Hs are currently flying. Powell says that number will increase to 12 with spare parts.

US breaks military embargo to Indonesia with spare parts for relief planes
JAKARTA (AFP) Jan 05, 2005

Washington has decided to partially lift an embargo on supplying military hardware to Indonesia, promising spare parts for Hercules planes so they can be used to aid tsunami victims, officials said Wednesday.

Indonesian presidential spokesman Dino Patti Djalal said visiting US Secretary of State Colin Powell had confirmed that restrictions on equipment to mend a fleet of grounded military cargo aircraft would be lifted.

The embargo was imposed in the wake of alleged gross human rights violations by Indonesian troops in 1999 around an independence vote which saw East Timor separate from Jakarta.

Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono hailed the move, Djalal said, which would allow the planes to carry relief to northwestern Sumatra island to aid survivors of the tsunami which killed 94,000 Indonesians.

"The president welcomed it and said he hoped that it would be immediately implemented because we are in urgent need of the Hercules planes to resupply and distribute food, medicine," he said.

Djalal said that even though this decision was taken by Washington after evaluating the post-disaster needs of the Indonesian government, he believed the lifting of the restriction for the Hercules spare parts was permanent.

"I think this is something permanent... it is limited to spare parts for the Hercules," he said.

Powell on Wednesday toured tsunami affected areas of Sumatra's coastline, describing the carnage as one of the worst things he had ever seen.

"I've been in war and I've been through a number of hurricanes, tornadoes and other relief operations but I have never seen anything like this," he said.

Powell was due to attend an emergency summit in Jakarta on Thursday expected to secure pledges of aid for disaster victims and formulate strategies for delivering aid.

David-80

January 14th, 2005, 02:09 PM

Yeah, good news. I hope US will allow Indonesia to buy more choppers, we need something like seahawk or blackhawk.

cheers

Alvin

January 17th, 2005, 07:31 AM

U.S. and Indonesia May Restore Military Link
By ERIC SCHMITT

Published: January 17, 2005

AKARTA, Indonesia, Jan. 16 - The United States and Indonesia are seeking to use their cooperation in dealing with the tsunami crisis as a springboard to restore closer military ties after a decade of limited contact because of American concern over human rights abuses by the Indonesian Army, senior defense officials from both countries said Sunday.

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Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, visiting here on a trip to three countries hit hard by the tsunami last month, said Congressional restrictions on American training and arms sales should be re-evaluated in light of what the Indonesian military is doing to refashion itself into a more professional and accountable force.

"If we're interested in military reform here," Mr. Wolfowitz told reporters, "I think we need to reconsider a bit where we are."

Earlier in the day, Mr. Wolfowitz, who was the American ambassador here from 1986 to 1989, in the Reagan administration, said, "Cutting off contact with Indonesian officers only makes the problem worse."

Military assistance to Indonesia was halted in 1992 in response to the killing of demonstrators in East Timor by Indonesian forces. After the Sept. 11 attacks, some counterterrorism training for Indonesian forces resumed. Last week, restrictions were relaxed to allow the sale of spare parts for Indonesia's aging fleet of C-130 military cargo planes so they could be used to deliver aid. Only 8 of Indonesia's 25 C-130's were in condition to be used, American officials said.

Any further changes would require congressional approval.

Even proponents of the restrictions - including those who have been critical of the army for its continuing rights abuses in places like Aceh Province, the site of worst devastation from the tsunami - acknowledge that the best hope for developing an army whose conduct fits a democracy is to send officers for training in the United States.

Mr. Wolfowitz pointed out on Sunday that the new Indonesian president, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, is a former general who trained at the Army's Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, Kan.

He has made clear that in restoring assistance, the United States would not excuse past abuses and would press the Indonesian military to make changes to prevent such abuses. Any renewed assistance would have to be closely monitored, proponents of changes said.

Adm. Thomas B. Fargo, the head of the Pacific Command, said in an interview that the Indonesian military had already taken several steps - from no longer allowing officers to hold seats in Parliament, to centralizing control over special forces - and said he favored restoring full military ties.

Admiral Fargo is seeking Pentagon approval to expand a series of conferences his command has sponsored with Indonesian military officers on civil-military relations, democratic institutions and other nonlethal training, a spokesman said.

The Indonesian defense minister, Juwono Sudarsono, said Sunday at a news conference with Mr. Wolfowitz that he was trying to make needed changes in the 350,000-member military despite a limited budget.

Mr. Sudarsono sought to remove one possible irritant in relations between the United States and Indonesia by pulling back from his government's announcement last week that foreign militaries assisting the relief operations would have to leave by March 26, the three-month anniversary of the tsunami.

The comments had roiled some in Congress, who had viewed the remarks as an ungrateful reply to a surge of emergency American relief aid, particularly from Navy helicopters flying into remote coastal areas from the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln and other ships off the western coast of Sumatra.

Mr. Sudarsono said Sunday that March 26 was not a deadline for foreign militaries, but rather the date by which the Indonesian government would try to improve and accelerate its ability to oversee all relief efforts. "Foreign military operations providing relief and rehabilitation will be allowed to continue, albeit on a reduced scale," he said.

Here in Indonesia, Mr. Sudarsono said it was difficult to bolster the military's public image, especially in places like Aceh Province, which had the greatest number of deaths from the tsunami and where a separatist rebellion has simmered for decades. He said he had placed a full-page advertisement in Indonesian newspapers to thank the military for its efforts in helping tsunami victims.

He also appealed to Washington to provide more training for officers, particularly in management and on the technical aspects of defense, and Mr. Wolfowitz responded that such training made sense for a military in a democracy.

Officials from both the United States and Indonesia said that the Indonesian military's handling of the crisis in Aceh could influence members of Congress on the issue of restrictions. But perhaps more important, it might also open the door to a settlement of the long-simmering strife there, American officials said.

"If the military proves itself in Aceh, and shows they can do something other than kill people there, it could bring about a settlement," said one American military official who had studied the tensions there but who spoke on condition of anonymity because he did not have an official policy making position.

Before the tsunami, Aceh was mostly off limits to foreigners, including aid workers. Martial law was declared in the province in May 2003 and relaxed to a state of "civil emergency" last year, as some 40,000 troops weakened the rebels.

Human rights groups have accused the Indonesian military of severe abuses of civilians.

Mr. Wolfowitz will wrap up his inspection of the tsunami-stricken region with a visit to Sri Lanka on Monday to review the damage there as well as American military relief operations. He visited Thailand earlier in the weekend.

David-80

January 18th, 2005, 05:01 PM

Good read, but again the problem is not from the administration but the congress.

Anyway funny isnt when you read this kind of stuff in the news.

If the military proves itself in Aceh, and shows they can do something other than kill people there, it could bring about a settlement," said one American military official who had studied the tensions there but who spoke on condition of anonymity because he did not have an official policy making position.

:lol: :lol: thats just an opinion, why you have to speak on anonymity or ?? :lol:

cheers

Fir3blaze

January 26th, 2005, 04:04 PM

*** From www.thejakartapost.com ***

Susilo wants stronger military

JAKARTA (Antara): President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono said on Wednesday he wants Indonesia to have a stronger and better equipped military to enable it to help handle major events, such as the tsunami disaster.

"We face the challenge of building up stronger armed forces," Susilo said during a discussion on defense affairs.

Frequently criticized for human rights abuses during the Soeharto era, the Indonesian Military (TNI) has struggled to cope in the tsunami's aftermath, and has only managed to deploy a few helicopters compared to the number sent by other countries.

Foreign warships and aircraft proved crucial to the effort to get aid to the survivors of the Dec. 26 disaster stranded on remote coasts.

"If we had a stronger military, we could have done a lot more," he added.

Susilo also said that Indonesia must improve its capacity to produce military equipment so as to reduce its dependency on foreign armaments. (**)

Fir3blaze

January 26th, 2005, 04:07 PM

What to you think happened to these guys?

*** Taken from www.thejakartapost.com ***

Pirate attacks in Malacca Straits stop after tsunami

JAKARTA (Bloomberg): Attacks on shipping in the Malacca Straits, the world's busiest sea lane, stopped after the Dec. 26 tsunami that devastated Indonesia's Aceh province on Sumatra island which is adjacent to the waterway, a shipping group said.

A magnitude-9 earthquake off the coast of Sumatra caused a tsunami that swept across the Indian Ocean killing more than 200,000 people in 12 countries, most of them in Indonesia, where whole towns were wiped out. Sumatra is on the west side of the Malacca Straits, where about a fifth of the world's piracyincidents were reported last year.

"There hasn't been a single attack in any part of the Malacca Straits since the tsunami," said Noel Choong, head of the International Maritime Bureau's Kuala Lumpur-based Piracy Reporting Center. "If they were coming out of Aceh, we assume the pirates lost their boats and other assets."

Pirate attacks in the strait, where more than 50,000 vessels passed through last year, rose to a 14-year high in the first half of 2004. Most pirates come from the Indonesian side of the waterway and attacks were increasing in the two months before the tsunami, Choong said.

Pirates attack shipping in the Malacca Straits usingspeedboats that can travel fast and undetected. Armed with machine guns they board ships with grappling hooks and steal cash and other valuables from the crew, according to incident reports filed with the Piracy Reporting Center. (**)

David-80

January 26th, 2005, 07:08 PM

being wiped out in the ocean? :lol:

I think the fact that many foreign vessels and even aircraft carrier in the straits of malacca, its making them to think twice before they actually go in action.

chers

David-80

January 27th, 2005, 05:38 PM

SBY seeks to boost defense spending

Tiarma Siboro, The Jakarta Post/Jakarta

In a bid to create a strong and modern military, President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono is contemplating up to a five fold increase in defense spending to an "ideal level" of 3-5 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) compared to the current 1 percent.

Speaking at the opening of a seminar on developing the national defense industry on Wednesday, Susilo described the country's defense system as "under-strength, under-funded and under-capacity" to confront the various potential threats facing the archipelago.

"The time has come for this country to have sophisticated weapons system," said the retired army general, without specifying any time frames.

"Political will alone is not enough, because the aim of achieving an ideal defense system will also depend on the availability of funds, which in turn will depend upon the country's economic performance," he added.

He explained that one of the benefits of having a modern military was the ability of the nation to better cope with major natural disasters such as the tsunami in Aceh, where the country was forced to rely on foreign military because of the Indonesian military's limited equipment, especially helicopters.

"Our Air Force could only get nine aircraft into the air to help (tsunami) survivors, evacuate victims, and distribute aid, while foreign forces, within a matter of minutes, were able to supply twice as much military equipment, and were able to immediately carry out relief efforts," he said.

"Poor weapons systems are also causing difficulties for our soldiers in quelling the guerrillas in Aceh. If we had more sophisticated weaponry, I'm sure our security operations would be more effective there," he said, at time when his top ministers are heading to Finland for peace talks with leaders of the Free Aceh Movement (GAM) in a bid to seek a peaceful solution to the decades-long conflict.

The defense budget of the world's fourth most populous country is considered low even compared to smaller neighboring countries such as Thailand and Malaysia, which a few years ago had already achieved a defense budget of more than 2 percent of GDP.

Indonesia has a 400,000-strong military. But much of its military equipment is in poor condition. For instance, Indonesia has two squadrons of Hercules aircraft, but only 40 of them are airworthy. This is often used by the TNI as a reason for their slow response in sending troops and humanitarian aid to remote areas hit by security disturbances or natural disasters.

Some experts at the seminar suggested that the country should start reducing its dependence on foreign supplies of military equipment by pushing local companies to produce such supplies.

President of Bandung-based arms producer PT Pindad, Budi Santoso, gave a presentation on the company's capability in developing a certain type of rocket as well as modern tanks, but they were facing funding constraints.

"We are now seeking partnerships with foreign companies," Budi said.

It has been reported that some eastern European countries, as well as neighboring ASEAN countries, had proposed cooperation in developing defense industries, but the ministry's director general of defense strategy, Sudrajat, repeatedly said that "all the deals required us to provide huge funds."

For the 2005 fiscal year, the government has allocated Rp 21 trillion (US$2.3 billion) for defense expenditure, accounting for only 6 percent of the state budget.

Yamauchi

February 3rd, 2005, 08:01 PM

U.S. Seeks Military Ties With Indonesia

By CHRIS BRUMMITT, Associated Press Writer

ABOARD THE USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN, Indonesia - The United States wants to boost military ties with the Indonesian military on the back of the two countries' close cooperation in helping victims of the Dec. 26 tsunami, America's ambassador to Indonesia said Thursday.

The United States cut off ties with the Indonesian military in 1999 because of human rights concerns. The Bush administration, however, is keen to see the restrictions lifted, partly because of fears that al-Qaida may launch attacks from Indonesia, which has seen a string of deadly bombings in recent years.

The U.S. military was the first foreign army to arrive in Indonesia to join the tsunami relief efforts. Its helicopters have ferried tons of food and water to the survivors.

Ambassador B. Lynn Pascoe praised the two militaries' cooperation.

"We look forward to having much better relations with the military in the weeks and months to come, and we will certainly be working on that with them," he told reporters.

Pascoe declined to say whether he would recommend that the U.S. Congress lift the ban.

The USS Abraham Lincoln, meanwhile, was departing from Indonesia's tsunami-battered Sumatra island in the single biggest withdrawal of the American military aid effort since the Dec. 26 disaster.

The aircraft carrier, with 5,300 sailors and Marines aboard, "is moving out of Indonesian waters," said U.S. Navy spokesman Cmdr. Mark McDonald. The ship is expected to head for Singapore.

In a visit to Indonesia last month, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz said closer contact with the U.S. military would strengthen the Indonesian military's commitment to human rights and allow it to better respond to natural disasters.

Wolfowitz, a former U.S. ambassador to Indonesia, is a key proponent of improved ties between the two countries. Critics say he is turning a blind eye to massive human rights abuses by the Indonesian military.

Congress has so far blocked moves to reopen ties, which were severed in 1999 when Indonesian soldiers and militia proxies took part in bloody rampage that killed hundreds of people in East Timor following its vote for independence.

U.S. lawmakers maintain that the military has not improved its human rights record since then.

Suspected military involvement in the murder of two American teachers at a U.S.-owned gold mine in the remote province of Papua in 2002 has also complicated moves to restore links.

Indonesia has long called for the ban to be lifted so it can buy new U.S. military equipment and take part in American training programs.

Indonesian military chief Gen. Endriatono Sutarto, who also attended Thursday's ceremony, said he hoped the tsunami cooperation would "pave the way for a wider range of cooperation between the two armed forces."

Alwi Shihab, the government minister in charge of the tsunami relief effort, said he expected more "fruitful" ties with both the Bush administration and Congress in the coming months.

David-80

February 4th, 2005, 02:32 PM

Lifting the ban is just a matter of time right now, EU and UK already lifted the ban long time ago, why not the US.

cheers

Fir3blaze

February 6th, 2005, 08:30 AM

tata

February 6th, 2005, 03:44 PM

Is it PAKSI?
Anyone has more pictures of it?
Tata

http://img232.exs.cx/img232/4631/paksi8qz.jpg

sanhen

February 6th, 2005, 04:40 PM

Woah
What a strong car
What kind of engine and fuel consumption this car has?

Fir3blaze

February 6th, 2005, 05:01 PM

Yeah..that's the name..PAKSI. I saw the other pics before, but didn manage to find it again. I personally think that the design looks good.

Sorry Sanhen, im unsure of the specifications.

PS: Seems like it doesnt suffer any damage from knocking down that piece of wall :eek2:

tata

February 6th, 2005, 06:15 PM

do they have the civil version? ;)

sanhen

February 7th, 2005, 12:52 AM

Must be really hot inside.
Hope TNI has allocate some fund for air conditioner.
Poor soldier.. with such clothing inside a metal oven :) :) :)

David-80

February 7th, 2005, 01:02 PM

Paksi has aircon on it, thats Indonesia answer to Humvee :)

Anyway, Pindad also made APV with 90 mm turret gun, its very cool though, Also the patrol boat made by PAL with zebra cammo.

cheers

sanhen

February 7th, 2005, 03:12 PM

Actually
how many manpower Indonesian military currently have in total?
About 200,000 all together, I think?

Fir3blaze

February 7th, 2005, 06:16 PM

www.thejakartapost.com

Indonesian Navy, Lapan to produce missiles

JAKARTA (Antara): The Indonesian Navy and the NationalAeronautics and Space Agency (Lapan) signed a memorandum of understanding on Monday to develop missile to reduce the dependency on foreign weapons.

"We are very dependent on foreign weapons. It is very harmful not to be able to operate our weapons just because we are under an embargo," Navy Chief of Staff Adm. Bernard Kent Sondakh said.

"The missiles will be for defensive purposes only," he added.

Lapan chief Mahdi Kartasasmita said the early stages of the development process would make use Lapan's expertise in rocketry.

Lapan launched its first rocket, the Kartika, on Aug. 14, 1964, under the tutelage of then president Sukarno.

"We expect to launch the missile from a naval warship in 2006 if everything goes as planned," he said on the sidelines of the signing.

The Rp 25 billion (US$2.7 million) national missile program will produce a surface-to-surface missile with a range of 20 nautical miles and equipped with a steel-piercing warhead.

Bernard expects the venture also to involve Indonesia's other defense-related companies, including airplane maker PT Dirgantara Indonesia, arms maker PT Pindad, the National Institute of Sciences and the National Electronics Board.

The U.S. slapped an embargo to Indonesia following the Santa Cruz, East Timor, massacre in 1992. It tightened the embargo following violence in East Timor following the 1999 independence referendum there. Great Britain followed suit.

While the embargo is mostly aimed at the Army, the Air Force and Navy have also suffered. (***)

Yamauchi

February 7th, 2005, 09:09 PM

Actually
how many manpower Indonesian military currently have in total?
About 200,000 all together, I think?
All forces combined are right around 300,000.

sanhen

February 7th, 2005, 11:21 PM

@Yama: Thanks!

@missile
Missile is no longer a goverment exclusive.
You can make one using off the shelf spareparts.
Example: http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/

Fir3blaze

February 15th, 2005, 07:24 PM

http://img238.exs.cx/img238/1671/halim016wk.jpg

http://img238.exs.cx/img238/9004/halim027dr.jpg

http://img238.exs.cx/img238/8454/halim046yy.jpg

http://img238.exs.cx/img238/4826/f162vn.jpg

http://img238.exs.cx/img238/7010/foto7b7cg.jpg

Ara

February 16th, 2005, 08:50 AM

This is old news, but i think that this pic might be interesting.

http://img171.exs.cx/img171/2443/540116fu.jpg

The black vehicles in the pics are made by TNI themselves, and called sth like 'paksi'. Look at how they ram the Merc van :P *Pretty bad way to waste money*

That vehicle looks exactly like a South AFrican made vehicle. I can't remember the name though. here is the picture:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1165000/images/_1168130_sapolice300.jpg

David-80

February 16th, 2005, 01:57 PM

isnt that pic cute, combination of russian and american jet fighters laying together in the same airforce. :)

cheers

Fir3blaze

February 16th, 2005, 04:56 PM

Ara, i don't think the two vehicle looks similar. The south african one got a "flat nose", while the Indonesian made one isn't. :)
Cheers,

Fir3blaze

February 16th, 2005, 05:13 PM

taken from www.thejakartapost.com

'Air Force has less than half of required aircraft'
JAKARTA (Antara): Indonesian Air Force Chief of Staff Vice Marshal Chappy Hakim told the House of Representatives on Wednesday that he only had less than half of the aircraft required to safeguard Indonesian airspace.

"Currently we only have seven squadrons of fighters, five transport squadrons, one maritime patrol squadron, three helicopter squadrons and two training squadrons," he told House members.

"Actually we need 13 fighter squadrons, 14 transportsquadrons, three surveillance squadrons, seven helicopter squadrons and six training squadrons."

Chappy said the Air Force was prioritizing adding to the number of its aircraft in the next five years, especially fighter squadrons.

"Money is not the only obstacle to increasing the number as the Indonesian Military (TNI) is still under an arms embargo sanctioned by the United States and its allies.

It is difficult to get spare parts for our aircraft,particularly for fighters," he said.

The U.S. imposed an embargo on Indonesia following the Santa Cruz, East Timor incident in 1992 and further tightened the clamp following the riot following the UN-sponsored referendum in 1999that led to East Timor's independence. Great Britain followed suit.

Indonesia owns a number of American-made jets such as A-4 Skyhawks, F-16 Fighting Falcons, F-5 Tigers as well as C-130 Hercules transporters.

Meanwhile, British made aircraft include Hawk Mk 53s, Hawk Mk 100s and Hawk Mk 200s.

The Air Force currently has four Russian-made Sukhoi fighters, two Su-27 SKs and two Su-30 SKs. These fighters, however, are not equipped with weaponry. (***)

David-80

February 18th, 2005, 06:05 PM

Rice to 'soon' decide on resuming military training for Indonesia

(Kyodo) _ U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Thursday she will "soon" determine whether to fully resume military cooperation with Indonesia, which is now legally banned.
Rice told a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing that she is in the final stages of consultations with members of Congress about deciding whether Indonesia has met the cooperation requirements under the law for resuming the program to train the Indonesian military. "I expect to come to a determination really rather soon on that matter," Rice said, noting that Indonesia is cooperating "well enough" in an investigation that has led to an indictment in the 2002 case of two Americans killed in an ambush in Papua Province where violence is continuing between separatist rebels and government forces.

"I think it's a good time to do that," Rice said, also crediting Jakarta for holding its first direct presidential election last year, which Rice described as a "successful democratic exercise in a huge country with a huge Muslim population."

Rice noted that President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who was elected then, is a graduate of the training program.

The United States suspended military exchanges with Indonesia and banned weapons sales in reaction to the Indonesian military's alleged involvements in human rights abuses during the process of East Timor's independence in 1999.

The two nations partially resume military exchanges in 2002 as part of antiterrorism measures after the terror attacks on Sept. 11, 2001

http://sg.yimg.com/i/aa/providers/kyodo.gif

Ara

February 18th, 2005, 10:15 PM

Indonesia's Yudhoyono changes top military brass

Thu February 17, 2005 12:49 PM GMT+05:30

JAKARTA (Reuters) - Indonesia's president has named several new military chiefs, replacing a tough-talking nationalist general who headed the powerful army with an officer seen as a moderate.

The military said at a news conference on Thursday that President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono had also appointed new heads of the air force and navy, but not the position of overall armed forces commander, expected to become vacant in a few months.

Former general Yudhoyono picked the army's deputy chief, Lieutenant-General Djoko Santoso, to replace staunch nationalist General Ryamizard Ryacudu, military spokesman Major-General Sjafrie Sjamsuddin said.

"This decision didn't come overnight, but through a process," Sjamsuddin said. Ryamizard would remain on active duty but it was unclear what his new job would be.

Santoso won praise for helping implement a peace pact between warring Muslims and Christians in the volatile eastern Moluccas islands. Santoso took over as military commander after the deal was signed in 2002.

Analysts said the rise of Santoso -- who holds a masters degree in management and has a background in intelligence -- could dash Ryamizard's hope of heading the military and pave the way for Santoso himself to take the top post.

Nationalist politicians have been rallying behind Ryamizard to become military chief while moderates have wanted Santoso.

While the English-speaking Yudhoyono was seen as a thinking general who feels comfortable with foreigners, Ryamizard was known for his anti-foreign views and harsh attitude towards separatists in Aceh and Papua provinces.

Indonesia's military has lost some of its powers since the downfall of autocrat Suharto in 1998, but still retains much influence, especially over regions such as tsunami-hit Aceh province, where the government is engaged in a fresh round of peace talks with rebels.

Yudhoyono stopped short of picking a new chief for the armed forces to replace General Endriartono Sutarto, known as a professional soldier who has largely kept the military out of politics since he took over in 2002.

Sutarto has asked to be replaced, saying he wants to retire. Santoso's appointment could see him move into the top job after several months, analysts said.

The new navy chief will be Vice Admiral Slamet Soebijanto. The top air force job goes to Vice Marshall Djoko Sujanto.

Alvin

February 27th, 2005, 09:20 AM

U.S. to resume Indonesian military training

WASHINGTON (AFP): The United States, eager to build up its alliances in Southeast Asia, has decided to resume training members of the Indonesian armed forces suspended since 1992, officials announced on Saturday.

"Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has determined that Indonesia has satisfied legislative conditions for restarting its full International Military Education and Training program," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said in a statement.

Indonesia's participation in the program has been essentially on hold since 1992, when the Indonesian military launched a bloody crackdown against pro-independence protesters in East Timor.

The sanctions were further tightened in 1999, after the Indonesian army was accused of killing about 1,500 people in East Timor in an unsuccessful bid to prevent the territory from gaining independence.

The ban was effectively written into law by the U.S. Congress in 2002, when U.S. lawmakers insisted that generals in Jakarta were blocking an investigation into the killing of two U.S. school teachers in Indonesia's Papua province.

But Indonesian authorities have since taken steps to improve cooperation with the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation and brought murder and illegal firearms charges against Indonesian citizen Anthonius Wamang, a member of a Papuan separatist group.

Moreover, the administration of President George W. Bush has repeatedly stressed the importance of broadening post-Sept. 11 counterterrorism cooperation with Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim nation.

Boucher said Rice had concluded the Indonesians weredetermined to continue its cooperation with the FBI in the case of the murdered Americans "and thus have fulfilled the requirements articulated in the legislation to allow for resumption" of the training program.

"The department expects that Indonesia resumption of full international military education and training will strengthen its ongoing democratic progress and advance cooperation in other areas of mutual concern," the spokesman said.

There was .o immediate word on where Indon%sian military personnel will be trained and what kind of courses will be offered to them.

But the decision caps a quiet lobbying campaign by top Pentagon officials led by Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, who has openly advocated the view that congressional restrictions on military-to-military contacts with countries like Indonesia and Pakistan were hurting U.S. interests more than helping them. (***)

Alvin

March 8th, 2005, 02:13 PM

Malaysia spat raises questions of Indonesia military
By Shawn Donnan in Jakarta
Published: March 8 2005 11:38 | Last updated: March 8 2005 11:38

Indonesia has been engaging in old-fashioned gunboat diplomacy this week as it tries to shoo away Malaysia from a disputed and oil-rich patch of sea off north-eastern Borneo.

Yet alongside the nationalist calls to arms and anti-Malaysian protests that have accompanied the show of strength as Jakarta sent warships into the disputed waters is a nagging reality: if Indonesia wanted to turn the parade of muscle into action it would have to do so with a decidedly creaky fleet.

“What muscle do we really have?” said a senior Indonesian official this week. “People look at Singapore and think it is just a dot on the map. But now even the Singaporean navy would defeat ours.”

The question over Indonesia's ageing military might - the country has been under a US arms embargo for 13 years - is likely to be on the mind of Syed Hamid Albar, Malaysia's foreign minister, as he arrives in Jakarta today. Mr Albar will be in meetings aimed at finding a diplomatic solution to the dispute over the “Ambalat” block, which flared up last month after Malaysia awarded an oil concession in the area to Royal Dutch Shell.

But it also plays into a debate over the isolation to which the Indonesian military has been subjected by western governments since the early 1990s because of human rights abuses in East Timor.

Eager to see justice done for the 1999 military-led violence in East Timor, human rights groups continue to call for the US and other western governments to shun the Indonesian military, or TNI, until it hands over senior officers indicted by UN prosecutors.

Others argue there is more mileage to be had in engaging the military, something they say was proven in part by the welcome received by US and other foreign troops from the TNI in tsunami-stricken Aceh.

The debate will hit its latest milestone this weekend when Indonesia's defence minister, Juwono Sudarsono, leaves for Washington for an official visit that follows what are already encouraging signs for Jakarta in its bid to restore full military ties with the US.

The Bush administration last month restored a controversial programme that will allow Indonesian officers to train in the US. Following the Asian tsunami disaster it also relaxed conditions on a long-running arms embargo to allow Jakarta to buy spare parts for its ageing fleet of C-130 cargo planes. And Jakarta has influential friends in figures like Condoleezza Rice, US secretary of state, and Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy defence secretary.

Mr Sudarsono says he wants to “explain the broader context of reform” to critics of Jakarta in the US Congress during his trip. He argues that as Indonesia emerges as a democracy, further engagement is needed so young TNI officers can be prepared to run a “modern military” which knows how to report to a civilian government.

He says that would fit in with future reforms of the military planned by the new government of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, such as reining in notoriously corrupt military-owned businesses.

Mr Yudhoyono, the defence minister points out, is also seeking to sideline a hardline general who was widely expected to be the next head of the armed forces.

But analysts say the situation may not be as cut and dry as Mr Sudarsono may want it to appear.

For all its ageing equipment, Indonesia's military remains one of the most influential institutions in the country, says Kusnanto Anggoro, a military analyst at Jakarta's Centre for Stategic and International Studies. Although Mr Yudhoyono is a former general, in his first four months in office he “has not been able to assert his authority over the military”, says Mr Anggoro.

Constitutional changes passed in 2002 saw the military give up its seats in parliament. But Mr Anggoro says that has not always yielded change on the ground where soldiers continue to be accused of human rights abuses in the fight against separatists in places such as Papua and tsunami-stricken Aceh.

Yamauchi

March 8th, 2005, 08:47 PM

The Singaporean navy would obliterate Indonesia's. However, they shouldn't say "even" Singapore. Their Formidable frigates that are being built and coming into service are some of the most advanced frigates in Asia.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/formidable/images/Formidable_1.jpg

Alvin

March 9th, 2005, 05:40 AM

haha...again...the "red dot" frame of mind at work

Fir3blaze

March 9th, 2005, 10:02 AM

Yeah...in fact i think Malaysia would be a less intimidating adversary. In any case, the good thing about the Ambalat quarrel is that the people at DPR now realize (hopefully they do) that the TNI needs more funding to replace old inventories.

David-80

March 9th, 2005, 02:14 PM

But Indonesia's new sigma corvettes should be one of the most advance corvettes in the region though. Yama, do you think US will resume full military ties with Indonesia anytime soon? I was surprised they can deploy four f-16s to Kalimantan where the flyable fighters was only two last year. I think they already got the spareparts, my guessing is from Israel or....the netherland?

cheers

sanhen

March 9th, 2005, 02:44 PM

Ummm.. in general.. not againts certain country etc.. I think in term of hardware Indonesian military is not strong (but not weak too). However, in term of 'experience', TNI wins. Is not that easy to pull that trigger againts a moving objects... etc.

Fir3blaze

March 9th, 2005, 05:38 PM

I used to think that TNI will win in terms of experience, but as I observe things longer I begin to have doubts whether they actually do. I mean, if you count fighting GAM as experience, then we do have lots of experience. But when fighting other nations, I don't think that they'll be as "easy" opponent as GAM.

The Sigma corvettes would be a nice addition to the Navy, however its weaponries are just average I'm afraid. Given its size (length 91m), the ship should be able to accomodate a VLS.

Yamauchi

March 10th, 2005, 01:14 AM

I think that the US will soon resume full military ties given the prominent position of Paul Wolfowitz. He's essentially the overlord of the neo-conservative movement (Rice, Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc. - Not Bush), and Rice has indicated she supports restoring ties. If Indonesia wants good naval equipment look toward Japan. Since Russia's navy chief said their fleet was non-operational, Japan is really high on the list of world's strongest navies. They have all kinds of advanced designs.

Anyway, just looking at a list of Malaysia's ship list, I don't think Indonesia would have much of a problem given Indo's submarine fleet. Maybe if TNI is lucky they can get all of South Korea's 209-class subs (9 of them). I think if they go ahead with plans to develop anti-ship missiles they should look into creating their own class of missile boats. Sigma seems like it'll be a really good addition to the navy.

As far as Singapore is concerned, they're not going to war with Indonesia (it seems to me). They didn't get to where they are today by being stupid.

Yamauchi

March 10th, 2005, 06:53 AM

I think it's time for pictures of security forces.

Indonesian Police: Gegana - Anti-terror/Special Forces unit

http://img158.exs.cx/img158/4085/gegana8ov.jpg

Yamauchi

March 10th, 2005, 07:03 AM

http://www.cvl.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~kazmi/indexindonesia.html - This site has a list and pictures of all known naval units I suppose.

sanhen

March 10th, 2005, 08:09 AM

Huh?
Somehow that pic remind me of Counter Strike: Source new Counter Terorist models..

Ara

March 10th, 2005, 08:46 AM

That is a nice looking uniform.

Fir3blaze

March 10th, 2005, 10:25 AM

His glasses (the eye protection thingy) looked funny tho. Hee...

Alvin

March 10th, 2005, 01:23 PM

Military to up spending to modernize equipment

Rendi A. Witular, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

The recent dispute between Indonesia and Malaysia over territory and resources has rung alarm bells for the Indonesian military (TNI) to immediately increase spending to modernize its tattered war machines.

TNI Commander Gen. Endriartono Sutarto said the TNI along with the Ministry of Defense would propose a significant increase in military spending this year during the upcoming state budget revision scheduled to start this month.

"An immediate increase in military spending is a must. The TNI needs support from all parties to improve its equipment and arms in order to address future external threats," Endriartono told journalists aboard a commercial flight on Tuesday.

Endriartono refused to disclose the exact amount of the increase being sought, however, he hinted that the budget increase should be able to cover costs for reviving and modernizing all of TNI's war machines, which were either not functioning or too old.

"Our target for the next two years is to make all of our equipment fully operational. That will be just enough to defend our country from external threat," said Endriartono, adding that most of the funds would be allocated to the Navy and Air Force.

Based on the state budget, military spending this year is set at Rp 21.9 trillion (US$2.4 billion), up slightly from Rp 21.4 trillion last year and Rp 11.53 trillion in 2003.

The TNI's military equipment has been steadily deteriorating as a result of the 13-year arms embargo by the United States, which was imposed due to gross human rights violations in East Timor.

Endriartono said that the TNI was unlikely to purchase new arms for another two years, but might start expanding its equipment purchases again in 2007 when the country's economy was stronger.

Indonesia, southeast Asia's largest economy, needs a strong military force not only to address threats at home, such as separatist movements, but also as a deterrent to neighboring countries.

"Fighting separatism is not a grave threat for us since they can be tackled with small arms. The most dangerous threat comes from other countries. We need to show them that we are strong that they can't mess around with us," said Endriartono.

"Having a strong military is also a matter of dignity and sovereignty. Malaysia dares to claim our territory and acts rudely to our migrant workers because they know that we are not that strong," he said.

Endriartono also said that Indonesia would soon be able to directly procure spare parts for its Hercules aircraft, worth some $50 million this month, after the United States agreed to ease restrictions on the purchase of such parts.

Meanwhile, regarding efficiency efforts within the TNI, Endriartono said he had undertaken discussions with related ministries over the possibility of revising existing regulations on procurement, which had only created high costs for the TNI.

Endriartono suggested that any procurement of military equipment should be carried out directly by the Ministry of Defense without having to seek the assistance of third parties or private partners.

"Procurement using third parties only makes the price of our equipment more expensive because we have to cover the interest on the costs and also for their service fees ... We can actually save up to 50 percent if we can procure directly," he claimed.

The regulations, where military equipment and arms have to be purchased through third parties, was issued by former President Soeharto with the sole aim of enriching his family and cronies.

Fir3blaze

March 10th, 2005, 03:58 PM

Hee..that's good news. I just wish that the people in charge of this don't put the 'extra funding' into their own pockets.

Marshal

March 11th, 2005, 10:39 PM

Hi guys is it true that the Army s main battle tank is a French AMX13 and British Centurion and that they have Russian BVR ?

You guys don't make your own tank :?

Marshal

March 11th, 2005, 10:40 PM

Well at least Indonesia has F16s and Submarines. Philippines' military is so weak...we only have 2 F5s.

I dont think Indonesia needs F-22s. They just need an aircraft carrier to patrol the archipeligo filled with F18s and MiG-29s.

I agree!!

But HOLD ON!!!

F18s and MIG-29s are totally different a/c.. You can have one or the other but not both..

Marshal

March 11th, 2005, 10:42 PM

Based on the state budget, military spending this year is set at Rp 21.9 trillion (US$2.4 billion), up slightly from Rp 21.4 trillion last year and Rp 11.53 trillion in 2003.

Is indonesian rupiah (right?) very weak as trillions mean one US $2 billion???

Marshal

March 11th, 2005, 10:46 PM

As far as Singapore is concerned, they're not going to war with Indonesia (it seems to me). They didn't get to where they are today by being stupid.

I don't know about indonesian navy which could be strong as indonesia is a big island chain (or I could be wrong :? ) but Singapore a/f is one of its kind..

My friend gave me info as he lives in singapore and served in RSAF and they have kick ass F-16s blk52s etc. fitted with awesome israeli avionics and missiles NOT TO MENTION Hawkeye Awac's (top-of-the-line) and unrivaled by any other of their neighbours..

TheTramp

March 11th, 2005, 10:52 PM

that's cos the have the $$$ to purchase them and train the pilots....

TheTramp

March 11th, 2005, 10:53 PM

Is indonesian rupiah (right?) very weak as trillions mean one US $2 billion???

it's weak alright

Marshal

March 11th, 2005, 10:56 PM