Roads and Highways of Norway
Construction updates and development projects of the Norwegian network of roads and highways.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/30/06135u1200ltefossenx100.jpg

Nye E6, Trondheim - Melhus

This is the largest road construction project in Trøndelag today. The old 2 lane E6 will be replaced with a new 4 lane/ 2 lane E6 motorway from Berkåk down Gauladalen and to Trondheim which is a distance of 80 kilometers. I will make this whole road project into three replies, because of the size of the road project. The first piece of the road is Trondheim - Melhus.

E6 between Trondheim and Melhus is the largest part of this project and content a 4 lane road for 7km. Half of this was completed last month, and the next two construction pieces is under development but will probably start construction in 2006 and 2008.

http://home.no.net/sveiodal/e6melhus/nytrase.jpg
This is the new E6 which will be completed in january 2005, but the road was opened for traffic in october. Its a 4 lane road with several tunnels for about 3km. The new road goes around the city of Melhus, instead for through the city where the old E6 went and caused extremly slow traffic in periods.

http://home.no.net/sveiodal/e6melhus/tkulvert.jpg
Construction of a tunnel under the E6.

http://home.no.net/sveiodal/e6melhus/bstoep1.jpg
Construction tunnels.

http://home.no.net/sveiodal/e6melhus/a35c2d6r.jpg
Clearing the new E6 area. Several houses and other buildings was also demolished.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Other/melhus13.jpg
Several bridges needed to be built over the road. All this roads was crossing directly on the old E6 which caused many problems especally when the traffic was heavy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Other/melhus12.jpg
The road under construction this summer, just south of Melhus.

The planns for the last 5km of road is not yeat decidet. But the information concerning this last pieces of road will fallow in this reply. The other two pieces of Nye E6 Trondheim - Berkåk will fallow in two other replies, which i will post later when i have some more information.

I can give some information about a major road project south of Oslo.

E6 Oslo-Sweden

Before the end of 2009 the Norwegian Parliament have decided, that E6 from Oslo to the Swedish border, is going to be reconstructed to a modern four lane motorway facility. Most of the road will be constructed by adding two new lanes to the Existing two lane roads. But Also comletely new sections will be constructed.

Section Klemetsrud-Vinterbro

This road is one of the most important roads out of Oslo. It is also very close to Oslo. A reconstructed part of this section (From Klemetsrud to Assurtjern) opened September this year. I am sorry that I don't have any real pics for this project, but I have found some illustrations of the road project:

I/C Assurtjern
http://www.vegprosjekt.info/E_6_Vinterbro_-_Klemetsrud/Assurtjernkrysset_nytt1.jpg

I/C Taraldrud
http://www.vegprosjekt.info/E_6_Vinterbro_-_Klemetsrud/Taraldrudkrysset_nytt1.jpg

A map of the opened section
http://www.vegvesen.no/SVVbilde/E6_sor_OogA.jpg

The last part of the section Assurtjern-Vinterbro is going to be finished in 2009. This part will be a completely new road. Construction of this part will begin in 2006. 3,7 kms of the road will be a long tunnel.

Pictures:
http://obimg.no.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=OB&Dato=20041001&Kategori=MENINGER&Lopenr=209568&Ref=AR&MaxW=580
http://www.multiconsult.no/www/images/web/Nyheter/Vinterbru.jpg

Hålogalandsbrua

This is the first results after the new superbridge system was made last year. This system makes it passible to built bridges up to 3 000m long. There has started several developments of such bridges in Norway, but this is the first project relized. Hålogalandsbrua just north of Narvik is a 3km long bridge which replaced a second planned bridge on 1 400m. This bridge is still under development, and it will take quite a few years before the bridge can start construction. But the idea is ready!

[IMG]http://www.haalogalandsbrua.no/bildearkiv/bilde_4_18_magasin.jpg
As you can see the terrain is quite a challange for the bridge. Its far too steep on the other side of the fjord to a road. The proposal is to built the bridge directly into a tunnel.

[IMG]http://www.haalogalandsbrua.no/bildearkiv/bilde_4_16_avis.jpg

[IMG]http://www.haalogalandsbrua.no/bildearkiv/bilde_4_17_avis.jpg

[IMG]http://www.haalogalandsbrua.no/bildearkiv/bilde_4_19_avis.jpg
Architects redering of the bridge.

[IMG]http://www.haalogalandsbrua.no/bildearkiv/bilde_1_7_avis.jpg
On this map you can see the E6 today, and with the planning bridge. The bridge will make the road around the fjord 55km shorter.

The other developments are nice... but that bridge is something special. Wouldn't it be among the highest constructions in Norway

Juhu, nice thread! :banana: :cheers:

I hope I am allowed to participate by writing something about other road projects, if I manage to dig up enough interesting information. I can see if I find something about the planned 4 lane motorway from Kristiansand to Grimstad, for example.

Btw, the part of the motorway from Oslo to the Swedish border that finished recently, became cheaper than budget!

The other developments are nice... but that bridge is something special. Wouldn't it be among the highest constructions in Norway

Yeah, it would be very tall, far over 300m i belive. But we have the platforms here...;) And they are far taller, with Troll A on 472m, and several over 400m.

Juhu, nice thread! :banana: :cheers:

I hope I am allowed to participate by writing something about other road projects, if I manage to dig up enough interesting information. I can see if I find something about the planned 4 lane motorway from Kristiansand to Grimstad, for example.

Btw, the part of the motorway from Oslo to the Swedish border that finished recently, became cheaper than budget!

Everyone is of course allowed to post projects here(included you...;))

Trondheimsfjord Tunnel

There has been planns of a tunnel below Trondheimsfjorden between Trondheim and Fosen for over 10 years now. But the deapth is to large, so a tunnel is almost impassible. The fjord is 500m deep, and very steep. So we still got ferries over the fjord, and is now one of the five largest ferry transition in Norway. But after the idea of floating tunnel was realized there is again opportunities for a tunnel.

There is about 6 alternatives. Three between Trondheim and Leksvik (local authority), which we have one between Flakk and Rørvik, where the ferry transition is today. The tunnels will become from 30km long to 8km long. But after they built Skarnsundsbrua (1010m bridge) between Mosvik and Inderøy there is not as large need for a tunnel between Leksvik and Trondheim. Perhaps Rissa - Lensvika or Brekstad - Agdenes is a better opportunity.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Norwegian%20Images/Map2kopi.jpg
Map shows the 6 alternatives.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Norwegian%20Images/TransatlanticTunnel.jpg
This is the Transatlantic tunnel. A floating tunnel between London and New York which you have probably heard about. The tunnel which are been planned here are quite the same, but content a road, not train.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Norwegian%20Images/TransatlanticTunnel1.jpg
Another image of the Transatlantic Tunnel.

Sounds almost as another world... placing tunnel over the bottom of a fiord. Would be cool if they have windows although may be it is dark down there anyway.
Btw. some weeks ago was reading story by A.Allan Poe about Malstroem. Funny.

Sounds almost as another world... placing tunnel over the bottom of a fiord. Would be cool if they have windows although may be it is dark down there anyway.


Oh, i forgot to write it! The tunnel will not stay on the botton of the fjord., Its to deep and too steep to manage that. The tunnel will be around 100-200m deep i guess, but not deeper than that.

It was supose to be windows on the Transatlantic tunnel. I have no odea why they do that when the trains is supose to have a speed of 8 047kph...:eek: Nobody would have a change to looks outside. The windows must then be long as a skyscraper! So it would be far better idea to have windows at this Trondheimfjord tunnel.

All these new roads are good n'all, but what about the rail links? The tracks going east from Oslo need upgrading, I've been led to understand. Apparently the trains go way slower on the norwegian side of the border. Not that the Oslo-Stockholm trains will keep running anyway. Stupid NSB/SJ concept of making all the seats buissness class. Idiots. Now far too few passengers to make a profit even with subsidies.

That's true, the rail link is worse on the norwegian side of Stockholm-Oslo. That comes from years of neglecting investments in rail, and because all money is now poured into the new double railtrack out of Oslo in western direction. Sweden has, and is investing a much higher share of their infrastruckture-funds on rail than us, unfortunately.

This lack of willingness to upgrade the track to Sweden has led to the traincompany Linx, that drive between Oslo and Stockholm to cancel most of their routes from next year. There will only go trains in weekends and summer:(

whikked highways projects..i wish sweden focued more on highways too even tough cars are more pollutenating then trains... that tunnel over trondheim fjord seems kinda dangersou,, what if the tide / of streams will make the tunnel covvle, i mean it is floating but held down by ropes so the tide could make it go in the side a train derails or the tunnel cracks, plus if a line that hold the tunnel down brakes...

whikked highways projects..i wish sweden focued more on highways too even tough cars are more pollutenating then trains... that tunnel over trondheim fjord seems kinda dangersou,, what if the tide / of streams will make the tunnel covvle, i mean it is floating but held down by ropes so the tide could make it go in the side a train derails or the tunnel cracks, plus if a line that hold the tunnel down brakes...

The streams is a danger, yes. But i think the tunnel can handle that, Trondheimsfjorden is at its widest between Trondheim and Leksvik, so here its not a problem. But further out is more dangerous.

Perhaps the ice is more dangerous to the tunnel than the streams, at least between Leksvik and Trondheim. The inner part of the fjord freezes to ice during winters, but the ice is not deeper than 2-4m. But in the spring they sometimes floates out of the fjord by the stream. This ice shields can be up to 200-300m long, and if they capsize it could make a danger to the tunnel.

But today i guess the money is the biggest danger to the project. The cost to built such a floating tunnel in Norway will probably cost far more than the Bjørvika tunnel in Oslo.

And i don't think Oslo people would prefere building such a tunnel far from nowhere, when they could make the roads far better in Oslo for that price.

And i don't think Oslo people would prefere building such a tunnel far from nowhere, when they could make the roads far better in Oslo for that price.

But this will be a tunnel near our 3'rd biggest city, that's not far away from nowhere...;)

But this will be a tunnel near our 3'rd biggest city, that's not far away from nowhere...;)

Yes, and the ppl from Trondheim would become super-delighted for this tunnel. Then they can drive to the countryside far faster than before. But then we are only about 20 000 living on Fosen, and thats few for the tunnel price.

Austevollsbrua

The construction of Austevollsbrua between Huftarøy and Hundvåkøy in Hordaland, Southwestern Norway will start in february 2005. The project is apart a 3.8km long road which is been constructed. This road will conten a few more bridges as well. The cost of the bridge is supose to be around 430 million kroner (NOK). 190 million will be payed through a bar station, while the rest will be payed by local facilities and governmental facilities. The bridge is plann to be completed by 2008.

(No images yeat)

Lofast

This is the new main road which is currently been constructed in Lofoten, Northern Norway. The project with a cost of 1 billion Kroner (NOK) was started in 2003, and is expected to be completed by 2007. The 2 lane road counting 14.5km will also content several tunnels and bridges.

Tunnels:
Sørdaltunnelen, 6370
Raftsundtunnelen, 1530 m
Ingelsfjordtunnelen, 1240 m
Storåtunnelen, 210m

Bridges
Vesterstraumen bru, 300 m
Austerstraumen bru, 250 m

http://www.vegprosjekt.info/lofast/20031023011.jpg

http://www.vegprosjekt.info/lofast/20031023061.jpg

http://www.vegprosjekt.info/lofast/20031023201.jpg

http://www.vegprosjekt.info/lofast/20031023491.jpg

http://www.vegprosjekt.info/lofast/20031023121.jpg

Three bridge proposals for E18, Glomma.
Fossum - Norway

Thrre bridges has been proposed as the new Fossum bridge. The bridge will start construction in 2006 and is to be completed by 2008. Here are the three proposals. The span over the river is 270m.

http://www.smaalenene.no/multimedia/archive/00488/T_RN_MED_SKR_KABLER_488469g.jpg
1) A suspension bridge, one tower with a height of 76m.

http://www.smaalenene.no/multimedia/archive/00488/BRUA_MED_TRE_A_ER___488470g.jpg
2) The second bridge with three 20 tall AAA's.

http://www.smaalenene.no/multimedia/archive/00488/TO_SPYD-MODELLEN____488471g.jpg
3) A second suspension bridge with two towers counting 50m.

The next part that will be opened on the E6 Oslo - Svinesund road construction project is the huge new Svinesund Bridge.

The old brigde is from 1946.
http://www.sfm.no/Arkiv-2004/Fot-Sep-04/Svinesund-2.gif
As you can see the bridge is very narrow. There is also very much trafic over the bridge, and the result is long queues, especially during summer.

Luckily, the Norwegian and the Swedish government have decided that a new bridge will be built. And the opening is set to June 10th 2005. The new brigde will be a four-lane high-speed motorway brigde.

Here is some pictures
http://www.vv.se/filer/16609/genomskarning_final_2B.jpg
http://cache.aftenposten.no/multimedia/archive/00118/1205bro_118086a.gif
http://www.svinesund.no/bilder/bru/svinesundsbrua30juli2004.jpg
The first three pictures are computer models, but the last one is a real picture taken on July 30th 2004.
http://www.haldenhavn.no/~havnadm/cam1/snap.jpg
This is a webcam showing the progress of the construction.

E6 Røra

New E6 cross with RV. 755. The construction started in June 2004 and is expected to be completed to the autumn 2006. RV. 755 is the road that leads to Straumen over Skarnsundbrua and to Leksvik.

http://www.bygg.no/Proff/Media/431_1.jpg

Wow, that bridge over the fjord that goes into the tunnel is sooooooo cool!!

This here looks like a good spot for a new city. ;)
http://www.vegprosjekt.info/lofast/20031023201.jpg

I don't understand why most of the norwegian forumers discuss highway matters on the international forum. Big projects I can understand, but shouldn't the daily debate happen here in the Norwegian section?

Anyway, the construction of the Jondalstunnelen have finally begun. This have (together with the Folgefonnstunnelen) been a dream/fantasy for the locals (myself included) for many decades.

This is very important for the local traffic, but as many of you might know, this will probably become the main road between east and west also.

How it is now :lol:
http://g.api.no/obscura/www.hardanger-folkeblad.no/510x510r/02895/1257325309000__MG_1405_2895015510x510r.JPG

but things will change
http://g.api.no/obscura/www.hardanger-folkeblad.no/510x510r/02895/1257332798000__MG_1336_2895113510x510r.JPG


http://g.api.no/obscura/www.hardanger-folkeblad.no/510x510r/02895/1257326942000__MG_1321_2895084510x510r.JPG


http://g.api.no/obscura/www.hardanger-folkeblad.no/510x510r/02895/1257328177000__MG_1364_2895137510x510r.JPG

http://g.api.no/obscura/www.hardanger-folkeblad.no/510x510r/02895/1257326568000__MG_1312_2895056510x510r.JPG


http://g.api.no/obscura/www.hardanger-folkeblad.no/510x510r/02895/1257325367000__MG_1398_2895016510x510r.JPG


http://g.api.no/obscura/www.hardanger-folkeblad.no/510x510r/02895/1257328407000_Fenstor_2895149510x510r.JPG



There has been a lot of debate where the tunnel should start on the Jondal side.
http://g.api.no/obscura/www.hardanger-folkeblad.no/708x708r/02860/1255423092000_jondal_copy_2860009708x708r.JPG

Now it seems that Jondal can pay the extra 40 millions for the best alternative N6, after a merge between some local energy companies. (http://www.hardanger-folkeblad.no/hfnyhende/article4703197.ece) :cheers:

Oh man, this thread is OLD! Maybe we should start a new thread? :)

Nice shortcut to Bergen you are getting, but correct me if i'm wrong here: the Jondalstunnel roadsystem will have low standards since it's classified as a county road?

Nice shortcut to Bergen you are getting, but correct me if i'm wrong here: the Jondalstunnel roadsystem will have low standards since it's classified as a county road?

Don't think the standard on the new road will be a problem, not in a 20-30 years pespective at least..:shifty:

Just read (http://www.hardanger-folkeblad.no/hfnyhende/odda/article4708027.ece) that the money for the N6 alternative is secured thanks to local energy companies and Trond Mohn !

Trond Mohn must be the perfect billionaire. What a man! :happy:
Wicki on Trond Mohn:

Han er en stor bidragsyter til norsk idrettsliv og forskning og har en rekke tillitsverv. Han har blant annet støttet byggingen av en ishall i Bergen Vest med 15 millioner kroner og i 2006 bidro han med over 45 millioner kroner for å bygge nye fotballbaner i Bergen og 100 millioner til Universitetet i Tromsø. I 2009 gav han Tromsø Idrettslag en gave på 10 millioner for å støtte klubben i et økonomisk vanskelig år. Totalt har han gitt over 700 millioner i pengegaver til forskjellige formål innen utdanning, forskning og idrett.

Han var medlem av representantskapet i Bergen Bank (nå DnB NOR) i perioden 1984 til 1989.

Trond Mohn er kommandør av St. Olavs Orden.

The T connection is now underway in Haugesund/Karmøy/Tysvær

The project includes a new road connection shaped as t with three tunnels, the main one being over 7000m total, and two shorter ones.

http://www.fellesforbundet.no/Avdelinger/avd057/Oversikt%20T-forbindelsen.bmp

http://www.vegvesen.no/binary?id=28804

The main tunnel will have one roundabout in the middle, the roundabout will be 60m below sea level
Tunnel under Karmsundet 3977 m, max depth 139 m
Tunnel under Førresfjorden 3764 m, max depth 136 m
Tunnel to Fosen (Hellevik) 1164 m
Husafjelltunnelen, 687 m

Spannavarden tunnel, 260 m

^^ Both the Karmøy T-connection and Jondal projects are good, although the latter hopefully will be four lane in due course :)

I don't think it is a good idea to revive this thread. Unless this thread go into Bokmål/Nynorsk/Sami/Harding mode I see no reason to have two threads for Norwegian highways, the activity is not that high... If we should have only one thread, it should clearly be the one in the international forums, because

The international forum provide ample reference to road standard and solution in other comparable and not so comparable countries.
In the international forum there are some people with a high degree of insight in transportation which can provide valuable feedback
Showing pictures of our country in the international forum is a nice way of market our country (although pictures of roads probably is not....)

^^ Both the Karmøy T-connection and Jondal projects are good, although the latter hopefully will be four lane in due course :)

I don't think it is a good idea to revive this thread. Unless this thread go into Bokmål/Nynorsk/Sami/Harding mode I see no reason to have two threads for Norwegian highways, the activity is not that high... If we should have only one thread, it should clearly be the one in the international forums, because

The international forum provide ample reference to road standard and solution in other comparable and not so comparable countries.
In the international forum there are some people with a high degree of insight in transportation which can provide valuable feedback
Showing pictures of our country in the international forum is a nice way of market our country (although pictures of roads probably is not....)


All those arguments could also be used for most of norwegian development threads. Maybe we should just drop the Norwegian section?

IMO people can post where they want, but I think that people interested in Norwegian development will look to the Norwegian or N&B section first, and perhaps even miss that that there is actually a debate going on in the international forum. Also I think we need more traffic in our part of SCC.

At least for me it was the other way around. Finding the Norwegian highway thread in the international highway thread is really easy as they have a sticky country index thread. That is different from the other international forums in SSC, for instance railway, bridges, airport etc.

If this thread should be permanent the discussion will actually be divided in three: This thread, the Nordic infrastructure thread, and the international highway thread. That way, it will be much more difficult to follow the few discussions that are going on here.

Whatever solution is chosen there should be a link between the int. highway forum and the Norwegian forum. Since the international highway forum already have a system in place, and are not likely to change it because of some opinions in the Nordic / Norwegian section, the best solution would be to provide a sticky thread here in the Norwegian forum with link to the international road thread.

This thread could have space for more smaller projects in Norway. IMO, the international forum should mostly focus on motorways + only the most important/interesting stamvei projects. That way it won't get overloaded with some random road connection around some never-heard-of town.

Was that directed towards my town? :lol:

Yes, then i can post some Halden municipal roads soon :)

http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/Skatt-kan-kutte-Jondalstunnelen-968116.html

Skatt kan kutte Jondalstunnelen

Dersom ikkje Jondal Energi får skattefritak for tilskotet på 40 millionar kroner til Jondalstunnelen, spøkjer det for traséen forbi Torsnes.

Jondalstunnelen will provide a 100km shorter distance when going from Bergen to Oslo.

^^

Yeah but there is still that ferry to Jondal. I think my choice will be the Hardangerbridge when that is finished, rv.7 and Hardangervidda.

I just love Rv50, it's out of this world with all them serpentine turns down on the westside, so it doesn't matter if it's a detour <3

Check out this brochure about Hardangerbrua:
http://www.vegvesen.no/binary?id=206607

^^One would think that someone who speaks French would know how to spell the word "brochure":lol:

edit, next page!

A better rendering of Hardangerbrua |
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Architecture/Hardangerbrua6.jpg

It will be incredible view from the bridge!:nuts:

The government has decided to build a new 4-lane E18 from Langangen, Telemark og Grimstad, Aust-Agder, 130 km. This will complete a 4-lane highway all the way between Oslo and Kristiansand.
http://www.regjeringen.no/nb/dep/sd/pressesenter/pressemeldinger/2010/E-18-Langangen--Grimstad-Ny-firefelts-veg-langs-dagens-trase.html?id=592295

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k439/marshol/E18.jpg?t=1264604439

^^Wonder how many peaces they will split that project into.

Construction at the 23,5 km. long strech from Gulli to Sandefjord will begin next fall and take 3 years (like it seems all streches takes, no matter how long the strech is).

The different alternatives. Red is the choosen one.
http://www.regjeringen.no/upload/SD/Foto_artikler/e18konsepter514.jpg
Personally I would like the purple route down to Kragerø, and then the blue route the rest.

yeah, they will probably divide it into a lot of parcels, and only build one at a time.

This is nothing new. It's just a "we're making progress press release". Langangen - Dørdal and Arendal - Tvedestrand is planned to be built between 2013 and 2019, the rest probably between 2020 and 2030.

Personally I would like the purple route down to Kragerø, and then the blue route the rest.

I agree with you. It would be a huge mistake to keep the longe deroute to Porsgrunn, and it would make much more sense to move E18 closer to the coastal cities of Agder.

Well this is good news.

Maybe we'll finally be better than Albania in highway building?

Well this is good news.

Maybe we'll finally be better than Albania in highway building?

Be careful in believing what the government says. As stated in this thread, this is no more than what´s previously been promised in this matter, they are not pushing the timespan which already is outrageously stretched out, and user payment is the key prinsipal to get this plan realized. It´s just (another) example of the government going out to take credits, when there really isn´t anything to take credits for. (just as when Stoltenberg lied Obama into the face by stating Norway would increase it´s transfers to Afghanistan back in December, when reality was the money had been promised and taken credit for over a year earlier.)

Not that I´m against our government, though:D:nuts:

The good news here is aubviously that it will be 4 lanes, remembering that only a few years ago there was built a stretch of new road between Risør and Kragerø with 3 lanes :)

^^ With Jens & Co you always, always have to read the fine print....

- For strekninga Brokelandsheia – Vinterkjær, der det i dag er tre felt, skal ein behalde dagens veg.

I.e. the three lane road will remain, even in the promised 2030 vision....

Still, Sørlandet should be happy. Up here we are still waiting for any government funding, or even a starting date, or in most cases a plan for the following stretches...

1. E6 South of Trondheim, Sentervegen (Heimdal) -Håggåtunnelen, a road with ridiculously low standard (two lane road, through almost every little village in the area), with 25000 AADT (ÅDT) and above (+ 20 000 on paralell road) closest to Trondheim. A short km of the even more trafficated E6 Tonstad-Sentervegen (28 000 ÅDT) will luckily be started this summer, with 100% + VAT=125 % toll financing, of course...
2. E6 Omkjøringsveien , Leangen, two lanes, 25 000 cars
3. E6 Ranheim-Steinkjer, AADT 15 000 Ranheim-Stjørdal
4. E39 Klett-Orkanger, AADT 12 000

^^ With Jens & Co you always, always have to read the fine print....

I.e. the three lane road will remain, even in the promised 2030 vision....

Still, Sørlandet should be happy. Up here we are still waiting for any government funding, or even a starting date, or in most cases a plan for the following stretches...

1. E6 South of Trondheim, Sentervegen (Heimdal) -Håggåtunnelen, a road with ridiculously low standard (two lane road, through almost every little village in the area), with 25000 AADT (ÅDT) and above (+ 20 000 on paralell road) closest to Trondheim. A short km of the even more trafficated E6 Tonstad-Sentervegen (28 000 ÅDT) will luckily be started this summer, with 100% + VAT=125 % toll financing, of course...
2. E6 Omkjøringsveien , Leangen, two lanes, 25 000 cars
3. E6 Ranheim-Steinkjer, AADT 15 000 Ranheim-Stjørdal
4. E39 Klett-Orkanger, AADT 12 000

And you won't get them either, until you fully subdue to the government, and agree to 150% local fundings:nuts:

http://www.pd.no/breviksposten/article4832340.ece

Here we go again... Seems like building for the future is something that never will happen here in Norway...

"I og med at mye av trafikken på E18 i dette området skal til Porsgrunn og Skien, tror jeg det blir litt voldsomt med firefelts vei her, sier Gärtner"

How much more "voldsomt" will a bridge that is 22 meters wide be than one that is 13?.. And how much more will it cost the day they find out that two lanes just was'nt enough?

Well, two lanes is still better than no bridge at all. I'm surprised to hear that they actually think that far ahead.

[url]
How much more "voldsomt" will a bridge that is 22 meters wide be than one that is 13?.. And how much more will it cost the day they find out that two lanes just was'nt enough?

Dont know if I hould laugh or cry, seriously he CANT be serious. Wtf is "det blir voldsomt" mean?!?!? Bet he have a cabin in the area.

Well, two lanes is still better than no bridge at all. I'm surprised to hear that they actually think that far ahead.

A new bridge paralell to Grenlandsbrua is better in my opinion. A four-laner is probably needed to Porsgrunn in the future anyway. It's atleast better than the break-off standard a two-lane bridge will give, and I'm guessing the traffic will be far over "stamveinormalen" within few years. And probably from the beginning more traffic than the county border between Telemark and Aust Agder... The worst thing that ever happened to norwegian roadplanning/building must be "Motorvei klasse B". Seems like some engeneers still thinks this is the future.:ohno:

Pure idiotic and short-sighted. :bash: There is always use for high capacity on such roads. Why not build it now? They have to expand it in the future anyway.

You know, the goverment think we'll start using spaceships to travel within 50 years and don't want to build an unnecessary road network before that. ;)

Voldsomt? Ofcourse it is voldomst to pay for such a bridge, oh yeah - that's right! Only the users will pay for it, maybe it's voldsomt for Brevik residents to pay 50 kr get to work in at Herøya? I rather they keep the Langangen - Brevik parsell with a slight upgrade untill a shortcut can be built around the whole thing, as i wish the Larvik-detour could have been avoided instead of having the Farris-bridge controversy.... I don't like to see a map with a worm-shaped motorway as E18 will become.... :ohno:

Riksantikvaren has decided to preserve 66 road peices in Norway. And doing anything other than maintenance is not allowed. This is everything from tunnels, bridges, toll boots and whole road stretches.
Disse veistrekningene kan bli fredet (http://www.tv2nyhetene.no/prosjekt/veifredning/)

I thank god that Staurset bridge made of all wood at E 39 Vinjefjorden has been replaced. It was the last all wood bridge at the Riksveg network and was built in 1938.

Rv456 in Kristiansand will become a 4 lane road by 2013:

http://www.tu.no/multimedia/archive/00129/V_gsbygdveien_10012_129300d.jpg

Larger map:
http://www.vegvesen.no/binary?id=193060

More details about the project:
http://www.vareveger.no/article235337.ece
http://www.vegvesen.no/Vegprosjekter/Vagsbygdveien

About time, there's been too much traffic on this road for a couple of decades now.

I would think that E39 had a higher priority tough :nuts:

Not as much traffical problems there. Vågsbygdveien has several intersections with stop-lights, and many busses. I think it is more traffic on Vågsbygdveien in the rushhours. Atleast congestion there has been a problem for a long time, but I don't think this is a big problem on E39. Fewer people commute from Mandal and parts of Søgne, than from Vågsbygd(with some 25.000 people and some industry) and other parts of Søgne, wich also uses this road.

edit: looking at vegvesenet's maps, one can see that E39 and Vågsbygdveien has about the same number of cars daily; around 23000
http://svvgw.vegvesen.no/http://svvnvdbappp.vegvesen.no:7778/webinnsyn/anon/index

E39's traffic is probably more evenly spread out over the day though

Norge har Europas tregeste trafikk

Norge - 65,0 km/h
Albania - 68,1 km/h
Polen - 71,3 km/h
Irland - 74,3 km/h
Finland - 81,1 km/h
Sverige - 88,4 km/h
Sveits - 90,5 km/h
Danmark - 93,8 km/h
Østerrike - 95,9 km/h
Portugal - 96,8 km/h
Frankrike - 106,9 km/h
Tyskland - 108,3 km/h

http://www.nettavisen.no/motor/article2827729.ece

Trondheim-Tromsø is the fastest route :lol:

Should we cry or laugh?
When will any Norwegian politicans be visionary?

I would rather see how the average speed is for Oslo - Göteborg tough, that can't be too bad :)


Webcam for the E18 bridge crossing Glomma:

http://webkamera.vegvesen.no/kamera?id=100205

Should we cry or laugh?


Why not do both, crylaugh?


When will any Norwegian politicans be visionary?

Good question. The problem though is actually the people of Norway, the voters. I wish I could blame the politicans (and I do), but in the end it is our own fault. TØI (http://www.toi.no/category6.html)???

The Norwegian people should give an ultimatum to the politicans. If they before the next election don't come up with a realistic plan for completed highways and highspeedtrain between all the major cities in Norway within 2030, they should start looking for a new job..

The only problem is that we would never agree on such an ultimatum. Maybe we should hope for a dictator with interests in infrastructure???

I've said right form my first post that infrastructure was fucked in Norway. This should be a major political embarrassment for the govt, but they don't care and Norwegians are too stupid and ignorant to even think about complaining or heaven forbid vote the socialist fuckers out.

It's about time for people to take stand, woops sorry I forgot this is Norway, people here are so spineless that they might get a headache standing up for something.

Albania's traffic flow better than Norway's

Norway has long had among the slowest roads in Europe. Now a new study indicates that even drivers in Albania can get from one city to another in their country faster than drivers in Norway.

Newspaper Aftenposten reports that fresh figures obtained from the Information Council for Road Traffic (Opplysningsrådet for Veitrafikken, OFV) shows that Norwegian drivers can only drive at an average speed of 65 kilometers per hour (kph) between the country's large cities.

That's down from 67.9 kph in 2008, and places Norway at the bottom of the list of 12 European countries surveyed.

Last year Norway placed next to the bottom, and Albania was slowest. But road improvements in Albania have helped speed traffic up in the impoverished country, with average speeds rising from 64.6 kph in 2008 to 68.1 kph in 2009.

The speed reduction in Norway can be blamed on calculation methods, posted speed limits or road conditions, "but regardless, the actual development here defies transport policy goals," Vilrid Femoen of OFV told Aftenposten.

Road building and maintenance are matters of public debate in Norway. Motorists are often frustrated and politicians claim they aim to improve roads, making them safer and faster. They continue to opt, however, for an expensive piecemeal approach to road building, and even heavily trafficked stretches with high accident rates can go neglected for years. Many of Norway's highways, notes Femoen, are only narrow two-lane roads, lacking even a center line.

"A lot could be improved simply by widening roads and dividing them with a yellow line to prevent passing," she said.

Politicians also blame the poor roads on difficult mountain territory and fjords that need to be crossed, but Switzerland (and Austria, Alpine areas in France, Italy, Croatia, even little old NZ) for example, also has had to cope with mountains and has much better roads.

With poor Albania now even surpassing wealthy Norway, state highway officials also point to geographic challenges in Norway, along with political choices. A good highway system in Norway has never been a high political priority.

or heaven forbid vote the socialist fuckers out.


Like the socialists alone are responsible for this:nuts: Its not like they have teared down the awesome highways we had from Oslo to Trondheim. Bergen to Stavanger or what so ever.

Well we are a big country with difficult geography but i would have no problems paying more roadtolls if i could drive on a safer faster road the few times i drive between Bergen and Oslo.

At least they are going to cut the travel time on E39 with 1h the next ten years. Or so they say.
Trekantsambandet is soon downpaid and Rogfast and Osveien would cut a lot of traveltime between Bergen and Stavanger.

Like the socialists alone are responsible for this:nuts: Its not like they have teared down the awesome highways we had from Oslo to Trondheim. Bergen to Stavanger or what so ever.

Of course they are!! Just because they didn't actually destroy any roads, and not even that is completely true, they DO have the responsibility of the state of our infrastructure - what is not built and should have been built - regardless.

The socialists (or social democratic in the Scandinavian term) has been the leading political power in Norway for the last 65 years, since WWII. They have for the last 40+ years been neglecting infrastructure investments. This is the truth. The reasons for it may be discussed, but the concept of the "welfare state", has involved that huge money sums has been handed out to non-productive individuals and an inflated public bureaucracy. Of course, in more recent time, we've had enormous petroleum incomes, but even then, the spineless government completely lack the ability to invest and plan for the future.

The history of road construction in Norway is a complete and utter shame. It's been bits and pieces, there's even a book written about it.

^^^

Well, this forums is really about urbanism, not politics so I won't get too deep in this. But if it really is the fault of the "socialists", then why do Sweden and Dennmark, which also have social democratic governments and have had so for the past 50 years, both have excellent infrastructure?

Either way, I say thank god they didn't build that much over the past 50 years, or we could have ended up like many European and American cities, with miles and miles of car based sprawl and oversized highways everywhere.

If you ask me, the best way to go in the future is HSR and upgraded local lines, combined with trams and subways in bigger cities, and possibly car rental systems for smaller and more remote places. (I.e, you take a train to 'Indre Skruttlandsfjord', where you can cheaply rent a car for a few days. Like the bysykkel system, only with cars). Some higways between the bigger cities, sure, but not more than necessary.

I am all for urbanism and against sprawl. My post above relates to what the (social democratic) governments in Norway have and have not done. Sweden and Denmark have of course done a lot better on infrastructure (just like about every other European country).

Having said that, there is no contradiction about having decent roads between the cities in Norway and having good urban planning. There is no contradiction to having a good infrastructure within the city and good urban planning either.

Building highways in Norway is a lot more expencive and tricky than in flat Denmark and south Sweden (where all the swedes live).

Like the socialists alone are responsible for this:nuts: Its not like they have teared down the awesome highways we had from Oslo to Trondheim. Bergen to Stavanger or what so ever.

They sure as hell are, they haven't done anything about the roads and the ones that we do have are in a piss poor state, the state of the nations roads rests entirely in the hands of the government, who else could be responsible for the massive underinvestment and the countless lives that have been lost.

^^^

But if it really is the fault of the "socialists", then why do Sweden and Dennmark, which also have social democratic governments and have had so for the past 50 years, both have excellent infrastructure?

Since socialist parties have been in charge of Norway for most of the last century they are the only people who can be blamed for the current situation.

If you ask me, the best way to go in the future is HSR and upgraded local lines, combined with trams and subways in bigger cities, and possibly car rental systems for smaller and more remote places. (I.e, you take a train to 'Indre Skruttlandsfjord', where you can cheaply rent a car for a few days. Like the bysykkel system, only with cars). Some higways between the bigger cities, sure, but not more than necessary.

HSR is not the magic cure to Norways transport problems, HSR if built will only really help peole in 3-4 cities get to Oslo quicker, it won't address the rest of the country nor will it be of much benefit to Norwegian industry who are crying out for better roading.

Building highways in Norway is a lot more expencive and tricky than in flat Denmark and south Sweden (where all the swedes live).

That's not entirely true, building highways in Norway is expensive because the govt won't fund or maintain them properly, it's more a political problem than an engineering one.

I'm sure that the economic benefits to Norway in having an efficient and well maintained highway infrastructure would far outweigh the cost of building it.

Architectural contest for E18 bridges over Farris in Larvik sentrum, check them out here:
http://www.vegvesen.no/Vegprosjekter/e18larvik/Nyhetsarkiv/123863.cms

The one with the huge arch appeals to me very much ;)

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss282/Ingenioren3/Larvikbru.jpg

Look at the cant on that turn. Like a bobsled track.

the boy racers will love it.

I find it a tragedy that alternative 4 wasn't choosed.

http://www.vegvesen.no/binary?id=22120

The one with the huge arch appeals to me very much ;)



Yes looks nice. Build it:)

"Vil ha tunnel under Hardangervidda" (http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/ostafjells/buskerud/1.6989410)

What do you think? Waste of money? With the Hardangerbridge this will be the fastest road between Oslo and Bergen.

I wouldn't say that these plans for a tunnel are new. I saw something similar way back in the early 90's, but as far as I know it didn't get past the idea stage.
But it's a great idea IMO, Hardangervidda should have been the preferred main road between Bergen and Oslo from the start. If it had, we could have had both the Hardanger Bridge and a tunnel like this in place already, instead of wasting money and resources on a project like Lærdalstunnelen.

I wouldn't say that these plans for a tunnel are new. I saw something similar way back in the early 90's, but as far as I know it didn't get past the idea stage.
But it's a great idea IMO, Hardangervidda should have been the preferred main road between Bergen and Oslo from the start. If it had, we could have had both the Hardanger Bridge and a tunnel like this in place already, instead of wasting money and resources on a project like Lærdalstunnelen.

Welcome to the forum sveknu!

I agree with you that Hardangervidda should have been the prefered route, but since a lot of money has been spent, and a lot i planned to be spent on E16 and E134 I'm not so sure if I wanna see this project realized for at least some decades. First of all we need one good road between our two largest cities, and not three routes with a standard that belongs to a third world country on most sections, with a few decent sections here and there because the locals wanted a winter safe road. For 1,9 billions they should instead expand from two to four lanes from Bergen to Trengereid, rebuild E16 further east or somewhere on E134.

I find it a tragedy that alternative 4 wasn't choosed.

http://www.vegvesen.no/binary?id=22120

Typical Norway isn't it? always put the mainroads as close to city or town centres as possible... Imagine how nice the area occupied by E18 could have turned out for Larvik...

I find it a tragedy that alternative 4 wasn't choosed.

http://www.vegvesen.no/binary?id=22120

Typical Norway isn't it? always put the mainroads as close to city or town centres as possible... Imagine how nice the area occupied by E18 could have turned out for Larvik... (Not to mention that motorists not headed for Larvik would save some time and tight curves :))

As for Bergen - Oslo... I would love to see a tunnel crossing an entire mountainpass, i think it has been proposed for Haukeli by Statens Vegvesen some time ago as several alternatives in a study, Haukeli is the road to go for, it's easiest accesible from the all of the Oslofjordregion and it serves Haugaland, and to a certain point may serve Stavanger too... :)

The paper version of VG says that road and rail investments will probably be cut from 2011 as part of the governments plan for saving money, and that they probably wont be able to follow the NTP 2010-2019 that they introduced last spring. So this finally shows what an unnecessary and stupid plan NTP is.... And by thinking of the problems with the trains this winter, its unbelievable that the government even thinks of reducing rail investments, when its already way to low in NTP 2010-2019.... And on top of that, the government plans to demand parking-taxes.... So no better roads, and more taxing on cars..... Why is it always infrastructure that has to suffer??... Time to emigrate???

The paper version of VG says that road and rail investments will probably be cut from 2011 as part of the governments plan for saving money, and that they probably wont be able to follow the NTP 2010-2019 that they introduced last spring

I was just waiting to hear it. And just before the elections they were bragging about how much money they were going to use on infrastructure even if most of it was roadtolls.

God, I hate people in this country! Who are these people that keep on reelecting those retards?!

God, I hate people in this country! Who are these people that keep on reelecting those retards?!

It's incredible isn't it. And they still insist f.ex on paying 100% sick leave money for up to one year. Only that cost the state more than double of what is spent on road investments each year (35 Bill kr compared to the lousy 14 Bill for roads). I could of course make a veeery long list about other things state money is wasted on that should be cut rather than infrastructure investments, but to avoid being too political I'll stop there.

A short answer to your question: Egoistic, non-productive people that would rather prefer the state to care for them... And the oh-so naive socialists, reactionaries, NIMBYs, public sector paper shufflers, well yeah.. the list goes on.

the government plans to demand parking-taxes....
Yes, please! And i want to pay by Sms or autopass if possible...

God, I hate people in this country! Who are these people that keep on reelecting those retards?!

It's because the majority of Norwegians have been brainwashed into believing that socialism is the only way, I'm certain that hard times for Norway are just around the corner.

Some happy news :D
The project Håggåtunnelen (Støren) - Skjerdingstad (Melhus sør) will be build as narrow motorway (19 m). Some people (Vegdirektoratet) wanted to build the stretch as four lane expressway (16,5 m), but now we actually might have motorway and 100 km/h all the way from Støren to Trondheim in 2020. :D Then the question is when is Ranheim - Steinkjer and Klett - Orkanger being upgraded?

^^ i will be very surprised if we get 2x2 and 100km/h Trondheim - Støren before 2020...

I said might ;)
Jaktøyen - Tonstad is supposed to be finished in 2018. And they start building Håggåtunnelen - Skjerdingstad in 2013 and is finished in 2016. But as it's not in NTP I guess it's postponed a few years. Meaning they probably will be finished around 2020.

That's awesome! After they built the Melhus bypass i imagined there would be 2/3 lane all the way to Gudbrandsdalen, i am very surpriced by this good news, and construction this soon? I imagine 60 % toll then? (Or more?) That's a pretty long stretch to be building in one piece by Norwegian standard, great!

I said might ;)But as it's not in NTP I guess it's postponed a few years. Meaning they probably will be finished around 2020.

It does'nt need to mean that it will be delayed, but that it will probably be 100% toll financed just like the rest of projects in Arbeiderparti/Senterparti-land (Trønderlag, Oppland, Hedmark). The reason for this: most people in this area votes for those two parties anyway, and the does'nt have to "buy" the voters with roads:ohno:... But anyway I'll bet it will not be completed before 2020.

Hardangerbrua
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Architecture/Hardangerbrua6.jpg

Hardangerbrua is in financial difficulties again...
Statens vegvesen manglar 132 millionar kroner til vegsystemet på sørsida av Hardangerbrua. LINK (bt.no) (http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/Pengeknipe-naer-Hardangerbrua-1036614.html)

132 millionar? E det så satans mye da? Kutt litt i lønnå te feit kattane i stortinge, og vips, så har du faen meg peng og!

Politicians in Ap, Sv and Sp are questiong the plausability of the red-greens promised road and railroads fundings put up during the elections. In 2010 the overspending in the national budget is at 40 bio NOK, and they can't allow such overspending in years after years.

- Regjeringen svikter veiene
De rødgrønne tror de må bryte egne løfter om vei og jernbane


Av Alf Bjarne Johnsen og Andreas Nielsen 28.02.2010 kl. 13:19 Kilde: VG

BODØ/OSLO (VG) Det ligger an til betydelige kutt i de rødgrønnes løfte om å satse 100 milliarder kroner mer på vei og jernbane.



Nasjonal Transportplan, NTP, ble markedsført som tidenes vei og jernbanesatsing da regjeringen presenterte planen i fjor.

- Utenkelig at planen kan oppfylles fullt ut

Investeringene skulle øke med hele 100 milliarder kroner i forhold til det siste tiåret, og transportplanen ble brukt for alt den var verdt av regjeringspartienes lokale kandidater i valgkampen sist høst.

Men nå innrømmer flere sentrale regjeringskilder overfor VG at regjeringspartiene Ap, SV og Sp gaper for høyt, når man i 2010 bruker 40 milliarder kroner mer enn det den såkalte handlingsregelen tilsier.

- Det er helt utenkelig at planen kan oppfylles fullt ut, sier en sentral Ap-kilde.

- Alle må kutte

De formelle drøftelsene om hvorvidt gigantløftet på vei og bane lar seg gjennomføre, er ikke i gang. Men VG har snakket med en lang rekke politikere i regjeringsapparatet og i stortingsmiljøet, og ingen av dem våger lenger å garantere at samferdselsløftene overfor velgerne blir holdt.

For når oljepengebruken skal ned, blir det knallharde politiske prioriteringer.

- Alle må kutte, også samferdsel. Der er det jo veldig mye penger, sier en av de rødgrønne statsrådene til VG.

Samme statsråd peker også på at pengene følger partilederen:

Når Sp-leder Liv Signe Navarsete nå har forlatt samferdselsdepartementet og blitt kommunalminister, kan det bli vanskeligere for hennes å sikre at hennes «hjertebarn» NTP blir fulgt opp med like mye penger som lovet.

- Det må kjempes knallhardt for penger til samferdsel. Det har vi måttet gjøre hvert eneste år. Det er ikke slik at pengene automatisk kommer selv om vi har et stortingsvedtak om hvor mye penger vi skal bruke, sier en Sp-kilde med god innsikt i budsjettprosessen.

Trafikksikkerhet

Det første slaget vil stå allerede om to uker, når statsrådene, de parlamentariske lederne og regjeringspartienes fremste finanspolitikere på Stortinget setter seg ned på budsjettkonferansen på Thorbjørnrud på Jevnaker.

Der vil Finansdepartementet komme med sine nyeste anslag på utviklingen i norsk økonomi, og hvor mye penger som kan brukes.

Aps stortingspolitikere har allerede svettet seg igjennom den første budsjettøvelsen, som gikk ut på å foreslå fire prosent kutt på samtlige fagbudsjett.

VG er kjent med at Aps samferdselspolitikere på Stortinget internt har gitt uttrykk for engstelse for at NTP-kuttene vil ramme mindre kostbare tiltak som trafikksikkerhet og sykkelveier.

På avbetaling

Allerede nå i 2010 ligger regjeringens satsing på vei og jernbane langt bak målet i planen. Samferdselsminister Magnhild Kleppa (Sp) har 2,3 milliarder kroner mindre til rådighet i år, enn det planen forutsatte.

En annen kilde bekrefter at det jobbes med senere innfasing av noen av de største veiprosjektene. Samtidig presser spesielt Sp-representantene i Stortinget og regjeringen på for å bygge veier på «avbetaling» slik at man unngår full politisk ydmykelse over at løftene må brytes.

Midt oppe i tidenes togkaos jobbes det også intenst med å skjerme jernbaneinvesteringene.

Kildene sier at partiene vil slåss for «sin» del av Nasjonal Transportplan. SV vil ikke kunne tåle kutt i jernbaneinvesteringene.

Sp vil gå til ytterligheter for å skjerme rassikring og distriktsprosjektene, mens Ap i utgangspunktet er mest opptatt av firefeltsveier og veiutbygging rundt de største byene.

Sikret forbehold

I NTP er det lagt opp til at det skal bygges 23 mil med firefelts vei de neste ti årene.

Samtidig sier en av strategene i Ap at samferdsel ikke er et politikkområde som partiet kan tjene mange velgere på, og viser til at Aps velgere er mest opptatt av helse og skole. Dermed må vei- og jernbaneløftene konkurrere med Aps kanskje aller viktigste valgløfte fra i fjor; sykehjemsplasser til alle som trenger det.

Regjeringen har imidlertid sikret seg et forbehold med liten skrift i NTP-dokumentet. Der heter det at pengebruken til samferdsel må tilpasses den økonomiske situasjonen.

Varsler massive E18-aksjoner

Aksjonsgruppa for sikrere E18 gjennom Telemark akter å stenge E18 dersom veiutbyggingen utsettes.

Ifølge NTP skal veien bygges i 2013, og planprosessen er i gang. Aller helst vil aksjonsgruppa ha firefelts vei gjennom Telemark klar til 2015.

- Den skal ikke ut av planen, da stenger vi E18. Vi skal aksjonere så stortingspolitikerne blir svimle og ber om å få bevilge penger til prosjektet, lover aksjonsleder Vidar Tellefsen.

Provosert
Aksjonsgruppa for sikrere E18 gjennom Telemark har kjempet strekningen Dørdal-Langangen inn på NTP. Strekningen er i årevis kalt «dødsveien». Midtdelere på veien mot Oslo og gjennomsnitts-ATK på vei mot Arendal har presset opp antallet forbikjøringer.

De alvorlige møteulykkene, ofte med dødelig utgang, skvises inn i Telemark.

- Det er 100 små og store avkjørsler på veien. Jeg blir sjokkert over å høre at politikere som før valget satset stort på NTP, nå firer på satsingen. Jeg blir provosert når politikerne sparer penger fremfor menneskeliv. De skulle vært med ut på en av de mange dødsulykkene her nede, så hadde de fått se hva som skjer, sier Tellefsen.

- Farlig

Aksjonslederen sier det aldri har vært så farlig å kjøre på E18 i Telemark som nå.

Omkring 200 vogntog og andre kjøretøy aksjonerte i oktober i på E18 i to timer i protest mot veibevilgningene til E18.

Nesten 2500 kommentarer er postet på aksjonsgruppas debattside på lokalavisens nettutgave.

- Vi har synliggjort at vi har makt og vi skal bruke den, fastslår Tellefsen.

(VG 28.02.2010 kl. 13:19, Sist oppdatert 28.02.2010 kl. 13:41 )

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=582047

With the new toll ring in Trondheim, the toll stations on E 39 Thamshavn - Øysand and E 6 Ranheim - Stjørdal becomes automatic. Becouse of this the companies behind saves about 11 million NOK annually, 3 million on E 39 and 8 million on E 6. Dispite the increased profit, neither the downpayment time or the fees will be decreased. Meaning the 11 millions the companies save is extra income for the goverment, or taxes as we also call them.
In total this becomes 150 million NOK. 120 millions on E 6 and 30 millions on E 39.

Who keeps voting for the damn bastards?

Some youtube's from our latest motorway projects..

E18
PFZ-M4AgUwk


E6
KVehjMu5uaE&feature=fvsr


And I think this one was kind of cool..
wyU9d44z7No&feature=related

Construction pics from Hardangerbrua, three screenshots from this video: http://vimeo.com/9381567

Newer videos of the bridge under the profile.

Construction tunnels to the main road tunnel.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Architecture/February101.jpg

Bridge tower base is been done.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Architecture/February103.jpg

Tunnel entrance, where the bridge will start. The two holes on the top of the image is the bridge cable attachments.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Architecture/February102.jpg

Cool!

Fuckin A!

E6 Sandmoen-Tonstad
First phase of the new 9.6km long E6 between Jaktøyen and Tonstad south of Trondheim. I made a large rendering (the map) for those who are
interested inseeing the details. The original plans are available at Vegvesen.no.

Illustration with description (1002 x 2143 pixels) (http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/2807/nyee6sandmoentonstadx10.jpg)
VIEW LARGE SIZE (2987 x 6394 pixels | 2.4Mb) (http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6603/nyee6sandmoentonstadmeg.jpg)
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/2807/nyee6sandmoentonstadx10.jpg

Illustrations, driving from Sandmoen to Tonstad.
http://i47.tinypic.com/258mgco.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/idzw9y.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2e19a21.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/25u1rep.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/27wubcw.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/35bimmu.jpg

I would like to see a map showing where there are 4 -lanes in Trøndelag:)

hey guys,
I'm a location scout visiting Oslo right now, and I'm looking for some good venues to host an art conference in *2012, do you know some?
I thought this would be a good place to ask:)

I would like to see a map showing where there are 4 -lanes in Trøndelag:)

Just a quick one, think i remembered them all (there really isn't much to remember...)

http://i49.tinypic.com/25qet1l.jpg

Is Stjørdal - Trondheim supposed to be complete as a 4 lane motorway before 2020?

That was dissapointing. I had hoped for a lot more between Trondheim and Steinkjer :ohno:

Thanks for the effort btw!

Is Stjørdal - Trondheim supposed to be complete as a 4 lane motorway before 2020?

Not a chance...

That was dissapointing. I had hoped for a lot more between Trondheim and Steinkjer :ohno:

Thanks for the effort btw!

That will never happen. We might get a few more 2+1 lanes though.

That will never happen. We might get a few more 2+1 lanes though.I believe that the 4 lane road south of Steinkjer has already bee approved for a continuation, and the new road through Stjørdal will be 4 lanes. 4 lanes all the way from Trondheim to Steinkjer is a LONG way off, but I hope will we have something in the not too distant future that won't allow the camping vehicles to stroke the arteries of Trøndelag every summer. That will be a combination of 4 lanes, 2+1 lanes and 2 lanes.

Don't make me come up there with a shovel! Get four lanes built between Steinkjer and Trondheim, like now!

The construction work between Værnes and Kvithammar includes two roundabouts in the middle of the road :nuts:

Why
Why
Why

http://www.vegvesen.no/Vegprosjekter/e6ost/Vernes-Kvithammer/_image/63991.png?_encoded=2f66666666666678302f35382f&_ts=11d1d73c630

EDIT: Actually, three roundabouts (at least)

The construction work between Værnes and Kvithammar includes two roundabouts in the middle of the road :nuts:

Why
Why
WhyI have wondered about that myself.

^^ Probably because it's cheaper than building grade separated junctions.

^^ Probably because it's cheaper than building grade separated junctions.

But it can't be that much more expensive. Now they are preventing this from becoming a motorway. This risk of accidents surely must be higher. Plus, it must be a pain in the butt to slow down to yield for traffic in three roundabouts on a road like this.

This is a flat area, and to build graded intersections here, would probably involve tearing down nearby houses. Seriously expensive. An alternative could be filling out in Trondheimsfjorden, but try to get Riksantikvaren and Miljøverndepartementet accepting that!:lol:

This is a flat area, and to build graded intersections here, would probably involve tearing down nearby houses. Seriously expensive. An alternative could be filling out in Trondheimsfjorden, but try to get Riksantikvaren and Miljøverndepartementet accepting that!:lol:

Yes, but this is not the case in Stjørdal. The E6 Steinkjer is a good example of how to solve this, at least for the E6+E14 corner where you could easily just make it a bit bigger to handle more traffic.

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2365/steinkjere6.jpg

There is more than enough room, especially when they are going to fill out this area anyway.
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1609/sjore6.jpg

Vegvesenet "wanted" to build a grade separted junction, but they weren't allowed to use more of strandsonen. TV-interview (http://www.adressa.no/tv/?id=12402).

Personally I'm against the whole project. A new E6 through Stjørdal should go east of the city. This becouse any future motorway between Trondheim and Steinkjer have to go in a longer tunnel between Stjørdal and Åsen.

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/2594/e6stjrdal.png

I'm not that very fond of keeping the airport at Stjørdal either. They are to big for eachother. But sadly there are no alternative areas suitable for a new airport of that size. At least I can't see any.

Shouldn't the motorway follow the built up corridor to serve Levanger, Skogn etc. ?

My picture is between Stjørdal and Åsen only. Skogn, Levanger, Verdal and Steinkjer is further north.

Vegvesenet "wanted" to build a grade separted junction, but they weren't allowed to use more of strandsonen. TV-interview (http://www.adressa.no/tv/?id=12402).

So I was correct afterall...

Well, If you look at this picture you see that they are going to fill up Trondheimsfjorden at that location anyways. Building a grade seperated intersection would be no problem.
http://www.vegvesen.no/Vegprosjekter/e6ost/Vernes-Kvithammer/_image/63991.png?_encoded=2f66666666666678302f35382f&_ts=11d1d73c630

Better renderings.

http://i49.tinypic.com/295uuqd.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/k3qcsl.jpg
Enlarge (4000x915 pixels, 800kb) (http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4422/illustrasjonhalsoen1x40.jpg)

http://i48.tinypic.com/wi7kgk.jpg
Enlarge (2200x509 pixels, 500kb) (http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6318/vedtattregplanb102a0x22.jpg)

Just a quick one, think i remembered them all (there really isn't much to remember...)

You forgot quite a lot of roads/streets in central Trondheim.

Not a chance...



That will never happen. We might get a few more 2+1 lanes though.

The long term plan of Vegvesenet is four lanes Støren-Steinkjer, but things are progressing quite slowly. First phase north of Stjørdal might be Stjørdal-Åsen.
Vegvesenet "wanted" to build a grade separted junction, but they weren't allowed to use more of strandsonen. TV-interview (http://www.adressa.no/tv/?id=12402).

I think one issue was that a grade separated solution would be to tall (visually), or too expensive (if dug down).

Personally I'm against the whole project. A new E6 through Stjørdal should go east of the city. This becouse any future motorway between Trondheim and Steinkjer have to go in a longer tunnel between Stjørdal and Åsen.

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/2594/e6stjrdal.png
I'm not that very fond of keeping the airport at Stjørdal either. They are to big for eachother. But sadly there are no alternative areas suitable for a new airport of that size. At least I can't see any.
IMO a better idea for the E6 would be a tunnel below the fjord Ranheim-Frosta. From there it would also be quite easy to continue all the way to Fosen (but the latter arm of the tunnel should not be E6)

The airport is there to stay.

You forgot quite a lot of roads/streets in central Trondheim.

I didn't include the roads with kollektivfelt (which all 4x4 roads between Tempe and Lade is) thats why.

3/7-10

New road from Hasle to Økern in Oslo, close to opening - a local road, but it will serve as a detour while Østre Aker vei is closed for Økern upgrade:

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/030710/DSC_1975.jpg

Crossing a bridge over some local roads, T-bane and parkingslots:
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/030710/DSC_1979.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/030710/DSC_1980.jpg

Ramp from Ring3 comming from the right:
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/030710/DSC_1981.jpg

Roundabout north of Ring3, mainroad continues right:
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/030710/DSC_1982.jpg

From the new localroad, it's a deadend:
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/030710/DSC_1983.jpg

Continuing the main road:
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/030710/DSC_1984.jpg

Another round-about with tangent-lane from Økern:
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/030710/DSC_1985.jpg

Ulvenveien towards Økern:
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/030710/DSC_1986.jpg

Going under Alnabanen railway:
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/030710/DSC_1987.jpg

Some work remains at Økern:
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/030710/DSC_1988.jpg

SINTEF and NorNet is making some grand plans for a truly unique bridge between Bø and Hadsel in Nordland. The bridge
will be 3.8km long. Wind, wave and tide-turbines will be built on the bridge making the bridge producing a whole
lot of renewable energy!

The bridge will be very useful for the 2 800 people living in the municipality of Bø in Vesterålen. A bridge here will
shorten the road from the town of Bø with 2 hours of driving.

http://www.vol.no/multimedia/dynamic/00387/bro_pan_387509c.jpg

http://www.vol.no/multimedia/dynamic/00387/bro4_387511c.jpg

http://www.vol.no/multimedia/dynamic/00387/bro3_387510c.jpg

http://www.vol.no/multimedia/dynamic/00387/bro5_387512c.jpg

Watch a video here:
cw0-DY4AzYc

SINTEF and NorNet is making some grand plans for a truly unique bridge between Bø and Hadsel in Nordland. The bridge
will be 3.8km long. Wind, wave and tide-turbines will be built on the bridge making the bridge producing a whole
lot of renewable energy!

The bridge will be very useful for the 2 800 people living in the municipality of Bø in Vesterålen. A bridge here will
shorten the road from the town of Bø with 2 hours of driving.

We live in a weird country....

Edit: I like idea of the bridge making renewable energy though!

I hope the project saves in a lot of money compared to doing each by themselves...

An image from Google Maps that shows where (I'm assuming) the bridge will run.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4128/25088198.jpg

Seriously, there is nothing in the area. Can't they just run some ferries? I'm pretty sure that would be cheaper in the long run. 2 800 people isn't enough for a bridge this size. If the bridge was part of a national highway system or something like that then it would be fine, but this is just a bridge from one remote island to another.

A renewable energy bridge sound great, but why not build it in a place that actually has some people in it?

SINTEF and NorNet is making some grand plans for a truly unique bridge between Bø and Hadsel in Nordland. The bridge
will be 3.8km long. Wind, wave and tide-turbines will be built on the bridge making the bridge producing a whole
lot of renewable energy!

The bridge will be very useful for the 2 800 people living in the municipality of Bø in Vesterålen. A bridge here will
shorten the road from the town of Bø with 2 hours of driving.



You gotta be F***ing kidding me!! A mega sized bridge smack in the middle of nowhere !?? :nuts: 2800 people ?? If it gets built, it will take waste of money to new levels.. The REALLY appalling fact is that similar things has happened before, and this while the infrastructure development in, around and between the major cities are starving..:ohno:

An image from Google Maps that shows where (I'm assuming) the bridge will run.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4128/25088198.jpg

Seriously, there is nothing in the area. Can't they just run some ferries? I'm pretty sure that would be cheaper in the long run. 2 800 people isn't enough for a bridge this size. If the bridge was part of a national highway system or something like that then it would be fine, but this is just a bridge from one remote island to another.

A renewable energy bridge sound great, but why not build it in a place that actually has some people in it?

There is a map on the video showing the location, so its correct.

But lets face the fact that this project can't become a reality at that location, its just that the company who gave birth to the idea of such a bridge is located in Bø. The politicians in Bø wants to do a 'forprosjekt' to see if this is a realistic project. I'd be very surprised if they find this bridge economical, when bridges such as Hålogalandbrua doesn't seem to be realised at the first place.

Actually, Fosna-Folket had a article about the bridge today, since Fosenvegene would like to see if such a renewable energy bridge could be done here. But they mention a bridge across Stjørnfjorden (fjord between Ørland and Rissa where only 5000 will benefit from), not Trondheimsfjorden (where 25 000 will benefit from)...

Great idea of a bridge, just a poor location. Wouldn't this be better if it was the Denmark-Germany bridge?

Actually, Fosna-Folket had a article about the bridge today, since Fosenvegene would like to see if such a renewable energy bridge could be done here. But they mention a bridge across Stjørnfjorden (fjord between Ørland and Rissa where only 5000 will benefit from), not Trondheimsfjorden (where 25 000 will benefit from)...

Great idea of a bridge, just a poor location. Wouldn't this be better if it was the Denmark-Germany bridge?
Perhaps a bit more windy in Vesterålen? Regarding Stjørnfjorden, is it Fosenvegene (with support from the local politicians) or that "Kystvegen" lobby group that has this proposal? It is a project with slightly better benefits than your describe however, as the bridge with connect the most populous regions of Fosen (around 20 000 people?), and be welcomed by Hytte-people from Trondheim as well. There has been far worse projects in Norway, but I do not believe in a bridge here. To deep / wide.

In any case, why don't anyone in Fosen work for a Trondheimsfjord crossing. It is possible with todays technology via Frosta, the Trondheim-Frosta could form a new route for E6 (shortening it significantly). Trondheimsfjord-tunnel + Stjørnfjorden would of course be perfect, making Ørlanded the new Rygge of Trøndelag...

Perhaps a bit more windy in Vesterålen? Regarding Stjørnfjorden, is it Fosenvegene (with support from the local politicians) or that "Kystvegen" lobby group that has this proposal? It is a project with slightly better benefits than your describe however, as the bridge with connect the most populous regions of Fosen (around 20 000 people?), and be welcomed by Hytte-people from Trondheim as well. There has been far worse projects in Norway, but I do not believe in a bridge here. To deep / wide.


Only Ørlandet and Bjugn benefit from this (parts of Bjugn in a lesser degree) (of course, more will benefit from it going to those places), but about 9 500 people live in Bjugn+Ørland. And you would have to build a new road from Rissa-Fevåg (20km new road, 3-5km long tunnel). And most likely its only the Kystvegen group that is considering this, not Fosenveiene. And anyway, the gain of this new rout is less than 30min driving. So its just wrong to do Stjørnfjorden first, when Tr.sfjorden counts far more.

http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/Os-Bergen-ett-aar-forsinket-1124204.html

-.-

They are checking to see if Rogfast will be geologically viable

http://www.h-avis.no/nyheter/startet-rogfast-boring-1.5472146

Rogfast is a planned tunnel/bridge road connection planned between Stavanger and Haugesund region, to replace the existing ferry/tunnel route (seen to the right)

http://www.h-avis.no/polopoly_fs/kvits-y-1.5472153!/image/1488843609.jpg_gen/derivatives/derivative_article_468/1488843609.jpg?modified=1279552854000

http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/Os-Bergen-ett-aar-forsinket-1124204.html

-.-

I'm not surprised at all:ohno:

8 km of new motorway in Østfold is closing up to completion. E18 from Krosby to Knapstad (past Spydeberg) will be opened in November, and NRK has gone for a testdrive. Watch the video here: http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/ostfold/1.7263249

Also note the time schedule for completion of the rest of E18 through Østfold, which will be done in perfect state already in 2015.

^^Good! I still dont see why they have to divide the project into such small pieces. Every time I drive there, there is some stupid new kilometres with road.

It's not too bad, we are finished with both our motorway-projects in Østfold by the time they manage to finish the Vestfold section, E6 in V. Göteland and way before Hedmark section of E6 is completed. What is stupid however is that the last piece to Vinterbro is finished last when it's the piece with most trafic, don't expect Vinterbro - Fiskevollbukta to become motorway anytime soon either :)

They should have planned 4 lanes all the way from Vintrebro to the Swedish border though, like they did with E6.

They should have planned 4 lanes all the way from Vintrebro to the Swedish border though, like they did with E6.

There really is no traffic to deserve it, and imo the road is good enough for speeds in the 120 km/h segment eitherway...

They should have planned 4 lanes all the way from Vintrebro to the Swedish border though, like they did with E6.

I agree. Maybe there isn't enough traffic today, but nothing wrong planning for the future. It will probably cost us more changing it to 4 lanes in 2030..

Anybody know if the Vinterbro - Mastemyr center barrier will replace the passinglane, or if the road will be widened, it's been a while since they promised construction - since it's been so long i have hopes that the project is larger than i innitially tought. I remember they replaced passing lanes on E6 Østfold to add barrier, but this was for a road due for reconstruction. E18 Vestfold is also due for reconstruction, but they bothered to widen road to add barrier there...

Anybody know if the Vinterbro - Mastemyr center barrier will replace the passinglane, or if the road will be widened, it's been a while since they promised construction - since it's been so long i have hopes that the project is larger than i innitially tought. I remember they replaced passing lanes on E6 Østfold to add barrier, but this was for a road due for reconstruction. E18 Vestfold is also due for reconstruction, but they bothered to widen road to add barrier there...

As I've said earlier, 2010 has always been the planed start. Nothing has changed since 2007, when the barriers were first ordered (with a three year delivery time).

As for the lanes, you can read the Doffin-kunngjøring:

Oppdraget består av montering av ca 800 meter med betongrekkverk og ca 3100 meter med to-sidig w-stålskinnerekkverk i midtdeleren på E18 fra Ringnes til Svartskog. Eksisterende veg har 3 felter og fremtidig veg skal ha 2 felter + krabbefelt nordover på en delstrekning. Deler av vegbanen skal freses (Ca 16 000 m2) og hele vegbanen skal asfalteres på nytt. Mengde asfalt er ca 9 000 tonn. Det skal byttes ut ca 700 meter med eksisterende W-kantskinne rekkverk. Tidspunkt for når arbeider kan utføres er strengt regulert i forhold til trafikkavviklingen. Arbeidene må utføres som nattarbeid og E18 vil da være stengt. Dette medfører behov for midlertidig arbeidsvarsling i stort omfang.
CPV: 45233000, 45233200, 45233280.

http://www.doffin.no/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=AUG150805


Why they have splitted the project in two, is beyond me, though.. But it's a fact that the road (and especially the shoulders) is narrower north of Svartskog, so the stretch might be more complex (and include an expansion).

I wish i could find some pics of the Karmøy side tunnel portal of the T-fobindelsen project, it's already well underway! :banana:


Nevermind, found some:

The roundabout in the middle of the tunnel:

http://www.karmoylokal.no/polopoly_fs/t-forbindelsen-1.5425296!/image/2187033046.jpg_gen/derivatives/derivative_780/2187033046.jpg?modified=1277925051000

As shown on this map

http://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.6064699!img6064655.jpg


And a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSPnQdTdyt0 ( suggest you watch it, if you're interested)


As mentioned in the video, this was planned already in 1987, even then they predicted Karmsund bridge would be heavily loaded, which it is now, with 20 000 ÅDT.

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/GlennR-91/karmoy-4.jpg

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/GlennR-91/karmoy-3.jpg

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/GlennR-91/karmoy-2.jpg


Karmsund bridge, and the current road:

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/GlennR-91/karmoy-1.jpg

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/GlennR-91/karmoy-5.jpg

Shot this photo from bridgeworks this summer on E18 between Larvik and Porsgrunn:
http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss282/Ingenioren3/aug10/DSC00601.jpg

Open day for Ring 3 project this sunday:
http://www.vegvesen.no/Om+Statens+vegvesen/Media/Siste+nyheter/Vis?key=173996

Last Saturday I drove the E39 from Stavanger to Molde, it's discusting how long it took, I left Stavanger at 8.00 and arrived home at midnight, some parts are nice and upgraded, the rest is horrible, I think if I have to do it again I'll go the inland route to Lilliehamer and up.

Would make the trip a hellofalot longer tough... Did you go by Fv60 (Stryn)? Saves you 2 ferries :)

Yup went through Stryn, theres some pretty nasty single lane roads that way as well, had to back up for over 500m for a truck at one point. Shocking that a first world nation has third world roading.

Yup went through Stryn, theres some pretty nasty single lane roads that way as well, had to back up for over 500m for a truck at one point. Shocking that a first world nation has third world roading.

Aren't you exaggerating again now. I have never driven a road in Norway where 500m backing is needed..:lol:

Sounds almost as another world... placing tunnel over the bottom of a fiord. Would be cool if they have windows although may be it is dark down there anyway.
Btw. some weeks ago was reading story by A.Allan Poe about Malstroem. Funny.http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002RJQT84?tag=anarchojose08-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B002RJQT84&adid=1FQSFGYYWFNTN7EPCPMA&

Yeah, i really hope Fv60 will get an upgrade soon because it's a real disgrace, by 2012 the E39 will be rerouted to the east (Kvivsvegen), this will make it even more common to use this alternative route...

Fv60:
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/8304400.jpg
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/27542621.jpg
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/27542805.jpg

Sounds almost as another world... placing tunnel over the bottom of a fiord. Would be cool if they have windows although may be it is dark down there anyway.
Btw. some weeks ago was reading story by A.Allan Poe about Malstroem. Funny.http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002RJQT84?tag=anarchojose08-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B002RJQT84&adid=1FQSFGYYWFNTN7EPCPMA&

You talking about the one i posted? that's just 130 metres, that's nothing

Bømlafjord tunnel and Eiksund tunnel are way deeper:
Bømlafjord goes down to 260m or so, Eiksund goes to 287(!!!!) metres, making it the deepest in the world.

Rogfast will reach 380m under sea level :)

Will it ever be built though? that's the question..

It's in the NTP, so yes. Statens Vegvesen has comed pretty far in the planning to.

Aren't you exaggerating again now. I have never driven a road in Norway where 500m backing is needed..:lol:

No I'm not I was driving a Ford Transit Jumbo, it's wider than a car, I had to reverse back a hell of a long way to one of those areas where you stop to allow oncoming cars to drive through.

Some photos from Lørentunnelen (Ring3):

Only 2-lanes today due to weekend-work
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/sep10/DSC_0001.jpg

Passing under the temporary ramp from Rv163:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/sep10/DSC_0002.jpg

At the point where concretetunnel begins, there is an extra tube being cast for ramp from Rv163:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/sep10/DSC_0003.jpg

Accesroute to site:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/sep10/DSC_0004.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/sep10/DSC_0007.jpg

Construction pit at Økern entrance:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/sep10/DSC_0008.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/sep10/DSC_0009.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/sep10/DSC_0013.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/sep10/DSC_0014.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/sep10/DSC_0015.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/sep10/DSC_0017.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/sep10/DSC_0018.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/sep10/DSC_0019.jpg

^^The project is immense! Though would've been better if they did Lørensvingen first, then this one:)

Skanskas film from Brandangersund bridge, it's well worth watching!
http://www.skanska.no/upload/Brandangersund.wmv

http://www.bygg.no/cache/image/25900/53/brandangersundet-bro-bredde.jpg

E 39 Rendalen - Staurset known as Vinjefjorden is opened by the Minister of Transport and Communications Magnhild Meltveit Kleppa next saturday (http://www.tk.no/nyheter/article5234419.ece).

Wonder what she will say. I'm guessing something like "This is the living proof of the goverment's road investments". Even though the building wouldn't even have started yet if it wasn't becouse the counties has prefinanced the road. Really tempting to go home that weekend and ask her where is Staurset - Stormyra and Rendalen - Betna. Or why the hell they keep building 15-20 km each time and not 100-150 km like they should have done.

E 39 Rendalen - Staurset known as Vinjefjorden is opened by the Minister of Transport and Communications Magnhild Meltveit Kleppa next saturday (http://www.tk.no/nyheter/article5234419.ece).
.

Looks good. How wide is that piece of road and what's the speedlimit?

It's 8,5 meters wide. The former road was 3,3 meters at the most narrow. The speed limit will as usual only be 80 km/h. With some modifications regarding curves it would be good enough for 90 km/h.

IMO, such kind of roads can at least support 100 km/h. But of course, all roads should have as low speedlimits as possible, because cardrivers are retarted, and statens vegvesen believes we can have lower than the worldst lowest car death numbers.

Old road not far away from the county border. One of the wider parts.
http://img.nrk.no/img/408398.jpeg

New road at the border.
http://g.api.no/obscura/www.tk.no/708x708r/03399/1282500959000_092146-Fylkesgrens_3399194708x708r.jpg

Same speed limit. Norway at the best. :applause:

IMO, such kind of roads can at least support 100 km/h.

I agree, but only at summer. At winter it should stay at 90 km/h. 110 km/h during summer.

Same speed limit. Norway at the best. :applause:

Good point! :lol: Sadly we are so narrow minded in Norway that the quality of the road makes little difference on the speedlevel. Its all about "tettbygd strøk" or not :ohno:

knappentunnelen has now opened in Bergen..

http://www.ba.no/nyheter/article5305549.ece

apparently its norways safest and most modern tunnel yet.

Good point! :lol: Sadly we are so narrow minded in Norway that the quality of the road makes little difference on the speedlevel. Its all about "tettbygd strøk" or not :ohno:

Indeed! I was unfortunate enough this summer to have a close encounter with the UP (traffic police) at Rv.3 in Østerdalen close to Koppang. There is a brand new stretch of the road there, which i dear say is probably the best quality 80-zone road in the whole of Norway. But yes, it is ONLY 80 km/h speed limit :ohno:. Most of Rv.3 through Østerdalen used to have 90 km/h before, but now it's 80 all over the place...

(PS. the police car which made a U-turn and caught up with me had a max speed of 215 km/h !!)

(PS. the police car which made a U-turn and caught up with me had a max speed of 215 km/h !!)

You had 215 or he had to catch up with you?

I enjoyed my 140km/h as i was driving past 10 cars driving 75km/h on the same stretch this summer. Didn't encounter any UP though!

^^

Since I hardly ever drive this way myself: Can you give a little status on the road between Elverum and Trondheim. How much of it has unacceptable quality now? (Mind you I'm thinking of acceptable 2-lane. Four lanes all the way is another debate ;))

EDIT: Question was ment for essenze, but anybody can feel free to answer.

^^

Since I hardly ever drive this way myself: Can you give a little status on the road between Elverum and Trondheim. How much of it has unacceptable quality now? (Mind you I'm thinking of acceptable 2-lane. Four lanes all the way is another debate ;))

EDIT: Question was ment for essenze, but anybody can feel free to answer.

In my opinion the whole of Rv.3 from Ulsberg to Elverum has acceptable quality, especially for only an 80-zone! This particular stretch is only a few km, but here they have actually cleared a wide belt of the forest on each side of the road (which I would think is for mitigating the moose hazard). A 110 km/h speed limit for this stretch and a 100 for the rest would be no problem at all. By comparison many 2-lane country roads in Scotland have a 70 miles/hr speed limit (=112 km/hr). Our 4-lane motorways should off course have a 130, just like Denmark, France, Italy etc. but that's another discussion.

And to Þróndeimr, i didn't have a 140, only 133 :) and i didn't pass any cars doing it. I guess the police car wanted to catch up with me as soon as possible since he came in the opposite direction and then had to stop and turn around.The penalty was 8 months without the driver license......:ohno:

In my opinion the whole of Rv.3 from Ulsberg to Elverum has acceptable quality, especially for only an 80-zone! This particular stretch is only a few km, but here they have actually cleared a wide belt of the forest on each side of the road (which I would think is for mitigating the moose hazard). A 110 km/h speed limit for this stretch and a 100 for the rest would be no problem at all. By comparison many 2-lane country roads in Scotland have a 70 miles/hr speed limit (=112 km/hr). Our 4-lane motorways should off course have a 130, just like Denmark, France, Italy etc. but that's another discussion.

I'm not sure if I agree completely. All though Rv3 is fantastic compared to most regional roads in this country, there are to many shorter stretches on this road that would require work before I could recommend 110 on the whole stretch. Still there are stretches with forrest comming really close to the road, and the road have some dangerous T-intersections and go through many "bygdetun", that demands better overview. The newest renovated stretches are good, but not all of Rv3 looks like this.

And to Þróndeimr, i didn't have a 140, only 133 :) and i didn't pass any cars doing it. I guess the police car wanted to catch up with me as soon as possible since he came in the opposite direction and then had to stop and turn around.The penalty was 8 months without the driver license......:ohno:

You must have been very unlucky, I don't think I've seen a police car with a radar in it the entire time I've been in Norway.

How long was he on your tail before stopping you?

You must have been very unlucky, I don't think I've seen a police car with a radar in it the entire time I've been in Norway.

While i've encountered at least 10 in my driving history.

^^ I passed three in the same week during school start, only one of the controls were anywhere close to a school though, through Østerdalen there is a control every weekend it seeems, in addition to the civilian police cars (but I guess KiwiRob is right in a way, the police no longer uses radar afaik :lol:)
^^

Since I hardly ever drive this way myself: Can you give a little status on the road between Elverum and Trondheim. How much of it has unacceptable quality now? (Mind you I'm thinking of acceptable 2-lane. Four lanes all the way is another debate ;))

EDIT: Question was ment for essenze, but anybody can feel free to answer.

As far as I know, there is roughly 200 km of sub-standard road along Rv3 from Elverum to Ulsberg, bringing up to standard would cost roughly 1.3-1.5 billion NOK according to this article (http://www.tungt.no/transport/nyheter/article233.ece) Since you asked for Elverum-Trondheim, you also have to add roughly 80 km (my estimate) between Ulsberg and Trondheim (E6) of even worse standard (and higher traffic). In addition (and not part of your question), Løten-Ommangsvolden (22 km) is also substandard (and due to be fixed in a toll-road scheme, partly as a motorway). Ommangsvolden-Hanevold (12 km), which for some reason still is 90 km/h, will probably require a fence soon. Altogether, at least 310 km to be fixed Kolomoen-Trondheim according to the current standards.

A few years ago vegvesenet made this map showing sections of RV3 with bad curvature:
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/6049/curverv3tu9.png

Although you don't ask for it, my recommendation would of course be to remake the whole road and build a motorway. Not everywhere following the current route as they seem to plan now, but find the best route in terms of distance, curvature, and environment / farms / residential areas. The Oslo-Trondheim road could be shortened to 450 km or less by cutting only a few corners of the current road (in terms of geography, not quality...).
In my opinion the whole of Rv.3 from Ulsberg to Elverum has acceptable quality, especially for only an 80-zone!

The road is narrower than 7 meter quite a few stretches, not much when you are driving a truck and meet another one during winter time... In addition, some places are quite steep and winding. Every winter the road is repeatedly closed for hours due to trucks that are stuck somewhere. The quality especially deterioates as you enter Sør-Trøndelag, that narrow bridge with a 90 degree turn in each end being the worst example.
This particular stretch is only a few km, but here they have actually cleared a wide belt of the forest on each side of the road (which I would think is for mitigating the moose hazard). A 110 km/h speed limit for this stretch and a 100 for the rest would be no problem at all. By comparison many 2-lane country roads in Scotland have a 70 miles/hr speed limit (=112 km/hr). Our 4-lane motorways should off course have a 130, just like Denmark, France, Italy etc. but that's another discussion.

And to Þróndeimr, i didn't have a 140, only 133 :) and i didn't pass any cars doing it. I guess the police car wanted to catch up with me as soon as possible since he came in the opposite direction and then had to stop and turn around.The penalty was 8 months without the driver license......:ohno:
If your velocity was measured to be 133, while a vehicle (the police car) came in the opposite direction I must say that your suspension was not altogether undeserved. Your speedometer most likely showed 133+3 (error margin police)+14 (10 % error speedometer)=150.....

During the summer, speeding like that is pointless during daytime because of the traffic (unless you want to test your vehicle, which grownups don't really need..), and very hazardous during night/dusk/dawn due to the moose. Even if they now have cleared the forest around that particular stretch of road, they would be difficult to spot in time in non-ideal light conditions.

As ELVIS77 has pointed out earlier, the more police free option Trondheim-Oslo (and technically the shortest route) is via Rendalen (Tynset-Rendalen-Åkrestrømmen-Rena), but this road is more winding and bumpy...

BTW: I agree that the general rural motorway speed limit in Norway should be 130, but due to the climatic conditions in Norway the limit should be electronically controlled.
I'm not sure if I agree completely. All though Rv3 is fantastic compared to most regional roads in this country, there are to many shorter stretches on this road that would require work before I could recommend 110 on the whole stretch. Still there are stretches with forrest comming really close to the road, and the road have some dangerous T-intersections and go through many "bygdetun", that demands better overview. The newest renovated stretches are good, but not all of Rv3 looks like this.
I partly agree, some part of Rv 3 would have been acceptable if it were a regional road, and not the main Oslo-Trondheim road, but other parts are rather winding (see above), narrow, and/or as you say with trees and rock really close, and some sections go close to residential areas , schools etc. I have always wondered, with all the space of Østerdalen, why settle 10 m from the main road...

The big problem is that the speed limit is the same everywhere, even where it would be quite safe to drive in say 110 during summer. Hence people just don't seem to care about the speed limit anywhere anymore, which makes them drive fast even where it might not be as safe. Just check this long-period speed measurement close to Hanestad in 2008:
http://www.sikkertrafikk.no/Fart.h1.gif
The quality of road here is far worse than close to Atna where essenze was unlucky, still the speed is at almost all days even during winter higher than the speed limit (80). As these numbers include everything (i.e. trucks, RVs, grandma from Koppang...) a lot of drivers drive very fast in order to get the average above 95 in April. My impression is that the average speed for passenger cars is above 100 at night in all of Østerdalen on sections with singposted speed 80 km/h, with the median having a 10 km/h margin or so towards the magic 115 km/h, and a couple of "essenzes" way above.... (the 10 km with average speed cameras is of course an exception)

One effect of the new 80 limits is that the difference in speed now is higher between cars. In addition to the high number of trucks (now at 700), this lead to quite a few dangerous passings, particularly at night. Some passing lanes would probably mitigate this...

In my view, reducing the speed limits to 80 on the previous 90-sections of Østerdalen was pointless. Almost all accidents in Østerdalen have historically been caused by excessive speeding or trucks losing control, neither problems were addressed by reducing the speed limits by 10 km/h.

Is it only me or do more people think it is rather silly to have discussions in the Norwegian section in English. IMO, the discussion should be in the international thread, or we could just as well discuss in norsk.

Is it only me or do more people think it is rather silly to have discussions in the Norwegian section in English. IMO, the discussion should be in the international thread, or we could just as well discuss in norsk.

Several of the active members in here doesn't even understand norsk (kiwirob among others). And i am linking loads of threads and posts back to the posts in this section. If it all goes in norsk it will all be ruined! Also, other people interested in Norwegian projects, who come here won't come if its in Norwegian.

While i've encountered at least 10 in my driving history.

Which isn't many so he was bloodly unlucky. I had thought most open road speed policing was done by poll mounted cameras with the occasional roadside cop with a laser gun.

Jubel i Larvik (http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/ostafjells/vestfold/1.7296950)
Parts of the new E18 between Bommestad and Sky will be laid in a environment tunnel past parts of Farrisstredet.

The distance of the new E18 will be 6 km. :nuts:

^^All these tunnels make our roads a lot pricier, and much less safe/comfortable to ride on. A tunnel solution should never be chosen unless very important factors are there. So I'm dissapointed again!

Finally! E18 through Bjørvika is CLOSED! And Dyvekes vei is clogged already:D

So time to dig, since "that day" is here, today:):

Even bigger date is closing up. In May the first half (eastbound) of the new Bjørvikatunnel will open! The biggest change of Bjørvika will happen in a day, just like that!:banana: (ok, it will happen in two days, as westbound will open someday Aug/Sept, but nevertheless). I'm personally taking out the flag, and will walk around randomly on E18 this day!

Biggest problem for me now, is that I don't have a flag. But nevertheless: this weekend is a super chance for a YIMBY-parade on the "new" soil! Just look at this map: http://www.vegvesen.no/Vegprosjekter/Bjorvika/Nytt+kj%C3%B8rem%C3%B8nster/Vegstengninger/_attachment/172397?_ts=12b140fdf30 Brings tears to your eyes, doesn't it?

Progress is SLOW on E39:

E39 litt bedre – bit for bit

Kyststamveien mellom Kristiansand og Trondheim, E 39, blir gradvis litt bedre. Men det går i sneglefart.


Av: NTB | Publisert: 17.09.2010 09:25 | Sist endret: 17.09.2010 09:28


Der ferjene forsvinner tar bomstasjonene over. Folk på Vestlandet tar mesteparten av regningen selv. Til NTB sier samferdselsminister Magnhild Meltveit Kleppa (Sp) at trafikantene fortsatt må belage seg på å bidra ganske mye gjennom bompenger.

Lørdag åpner samferdselsministeren enda en bit av denne viktige sør-nord-forbindelsen langs kysten av Vestlandet og Midt-Norge, en 15 kilometer flott vei ved Vinjefjorden i grenseområdet mellom Møre og Romsdal og Sør-Trøndelag. Det har tatt to og et halvt år å bygge parsellen og prislappen er 320 millioner kroner.

45,8 milliarder
Det er åtte ferjestrekninger langs E39, og ni dersom en regner med Kristiansand-Hirtshals. For E39 fortsetter egentlig helt til Ålborg i Danmark.

Det er gjort noen overslag over hva det vil koste å gjøre den norske delen av E39 ferjefri. En beregning fra 2007 konkluderte med 45,8 milliarder kroner.

Bare i Møre og Romsdal gjenstår tre store fjordkryssinger: Storfjorden, Romsdalsfjorden og Halsafjorden som vil koste rundt 10-15 milliarder kroner. Den politiske viljen er til stede og kreativiteten lokalt er formidabel. Det er «bare» pengene som mangler.

Og i Sogn og Fjordane er kryssingen av Sognefjorden den absolutt største utfordringen for et ferjefritt samband på hele den lange strekningen fra sør til nord.

Vestlandsrådet har vært en pådriver for Kyststamveien.

For lite
Fylkesordfører i Rogaland i de to forrige periodene, Roald Bergsaker (H), mener at en ferjefri E39 mellom Stavanger og Bergen er oppnåelig innenfor en tiårsperiode. Det store Rogfast-prosjektet med 25 km undersjøisk tunnel i to løp er i god gjenge. Prosjektet er med i Nasjonal transportplan og byggingen er forutsatt startet i 2014-2019.

Bergsaker skylder ikke bare på nasjonale myndigheter når det har gått litt tregt med E39 Kyststamveien:

– Nei, fylkene på Vestlandet har nok vært ivrigere etter å bygge veier mot Oslo enn nord-sør langs kysten. Det er først de to-tre siste periodene at Kyststamveien virkelig er blitt løftet fram, sier Bergsaker.

Han er lite imponert over statens medvirkning. 80 prosent av alt som er investert i Kyststamveien de siste årene har vestlendingene selv betalt. Statens medvirkning er for svak og det går dessuten for tregt å få gjennom store ferjeavløsningsprosjekter, mener han.

Fortsatt dugnad
Samferdselsminister Magnhild Meltveit Kleppa er enig med Bergsaker i at fremdriften for Kyststamveien historisk sett har vært for dårlig. Hun er også enig i at staten historisk sett ikke har bidratt nok til en nord-sør-forbindelse i en del av landet med svært høy verdiskapning.

– Men jeg er fornøyd med dagens fremdrift. Det skjer veldig mye nå. I alle fylker pågår det forbedringer av E39, det er planlagt prosjekter og det arbeides med konseptvalg og utredninger, sier Meltveit Kleppa til NTB.

Statsråden kan ikke love at de vel 45 milliarder kronene som trengs for å gjøre E39 ferjefri «kommer seilende inn fra samferdselsbudsjettet», og slett ikke i kommende statsbudsjett. Dessuten er det prosjekter som er i et teknologisk grenseland.

– Her blir det nok fortsatt en dugnad. Staten skal bidra, men det må også trafikantene selv belage seg på gjennom fremtidige bompenger, er den klare beskjeden fra samferdselsministeren.

I wish i could join your parade, but i'm stuck in Halden for the weekend working. Maybe you can take some pics of yourself setting up a picknick in the middle of E18 or something? :)

About the E39 article: They sure as hell hasn't been to much work being done on the Oslo - Connections, they are ALL a disgrace, there is still no only one mountaincrossing route that is half-decent standard (Hemsedalsfjellet - Rv52.)

Would be even better if they closed Bispelokket completely. The blue lines can still drive there. But anyway, this is a really great weekend with a lot of changes.

More news from Oslo's southern 'burbs: Statens vegvesen have now put the planing program for the new E18 from Reitvet (border of Akershus/Østfold) to Vinterbro out on hearing in affected municipals. Proposal includes multiple alternatives, both a full scale motorway for 100 km/h speedlimit, but also one alternative is to keep the road as it is, with just a few safety measures where the road runs close to residental areas. Local politicians are pushing for the latest, but everything seems really open right now. The hope is to get a municipal plan ready in time to get the project in the National transportation plan for 2015-2024.

Read the whole planprogram here:
http://www.as.kommune.no/getfile.php/1329212.746.btutvqpdyr/2010+10+13+E18+fra+Akershus+grense+til+Vinterbro,+forslag+til+planprogram+for+kommunedelplan.pdf?force=1

Rogfast-prosjektet setter seks verdensrekorder

E39 nord for Stavanger til kommunene Randaberg, Kvitsøy og Bokn i Rogaland blir verdens lengste og dypeste firefelts tunnel for ordinær trafikk.

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af172/mjoks007/Rogfast_Plankart_10_148952h.jpg

E39-Rogfast muliggjør kryssing av Boknafjorden og Kvitsøyfjorden med undersjøisk tunnel.

– Ja, og den blir med sine drøyt 26 kilometer verdens lengste og dypeste biltunnel med firefelts vei, sier Ingar Hals i Statens vegvesen.

Han har hittil vært planansvarlig for det omfattende Rogfast-prosjektet som i Nasjonal Transportplan har et foreløpig kostnadsoverslag på seks milliarder kroner.


LENGST OG DYPEST: - Rogfast blir verdens lengste og dypeste ordinære biltunnel, sier Ingar Hals i Statens vegvesen.
Bompenger
– Prosjektet skal hovedsakelig finansieres med bompenger, men også av statlige midler, sier Hals.

Tunnelen vil gå fra Harestad i Randaberg kommune til Arsvågen i Bokn kommune og vil bli rundt 26 kilometer lang. Det inkluderer tunnelarmen på ca to kilometer opp til Kvitsøy.

– Det laveste punktet i tunnelen vil ligge på om lag 360 meter under havoverflata, og veikrysset i tunnelen der det går en tofelts veiarm opp til Kvitsøy, vil ligge på minus 200 meter, sier Hals.

Langt frem
Men det er langt frem. Anleggsarbeidet vil tidligst starte mot slutten av 2014.

– Nå forbereder vi reguleringsplanleggingen som kanskje starter opp allerede i høst. Og vi er så vidt i gang med supplerende geologiske undersøkelser, sier Hals.


I SØR: På sørsiden kommer den planlagte E39-tunnelen i land ved Harestad i Randaberg kommune.
Vurderer TBM
Som et alternativ til konvensjonell sprengning i tunnelen, vurderes eventuelt å bruke tunnelboremaskiner (TBM).

– I kommunedelsplanen er det tatt utgangspunkt i konvensjonell sprengning. Med TBM vil man måtte ta ut mer masse enn det man egentlig trenger. Men kanskje kan andre deler av arbeidet går raskere med TBM enn med sprengning, og dette skal utredes, sier Hals.

80-tallside
Ideen om å krysse Boknafjorden og Kvitsøyfjorden med en undersjøisk tunnel kom opp midt på 1980-tallet. Rundt årtusensskiftet ble det utarbeidet en konsekvensutredning som ble godkjent i 2003. Fylkesdelsplanen ble godkjent av Miljøverndepartementet i 2004


http://www.tu.no/bygg/article256422.ece

Great to see that their actually building four lanes.

Fun video from today's chaos in the E18 trafic: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/oslo/article3818632.ece

For the last time period I've started to feel less and less empathy with commuters by car, and this video doesn't help. Who would use Mosseveien when commuting from Enebakk at all?

Now I know were my tax money goes!
But where we really need the highway, nothing happens!

^^A new ringroad wouldn't help, as practicly all traffic goes to office work places inside Ring3. What Oslo needs is more preassure to increase capacity and use of PT.

Not necessarily a ring road, but if we for example upgraded Rv22 worst parts and made a short-cut from Fetsund to E6 North it would not only benefit this connection between inner and outer Romerrike but also make it a more viable alternative for axis Østfold - Gardermoen. I also think that it's weird that there is no road east-west passing Oslo south of Rv35, and a new/upgraded road Hurum - E18 North.... :ohno:

The re-labelling of E16 makes me imagine Vegvesen is finally thinking about some roads that aren't radiating out of Oslo, it should be quite simple to build roads trough uninhabitated forrests, but not here because of the holyness of Marka... But it's not just Oslo tough, all Norwegian small and mid-size cities have the national routes going trough them and poor standard roads as only alternative (If any). From Mongstad to Troll who i imagine would be an important industrial connection there still have to make a large detour trough Bergen centre.

Compare this to Sweden where there are bypasses of villages/towns on even minor roads such as Lv164. Where our system mostly radiates, their make a grid and diagonals system one can drive in a straight line instead of making the large detours that our mainroads do. There could maybe cut one hour of travelspeed on E134 just by going in more direct route. Our industry is suffering enough from paying top wages, but having the least effective roads in whole industrialized world. Granted there are many natural obstacles, but there certainly are some unnecessary man-made ones (holy forrests and passing trough villages/towns because of district-politics.)

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/nrk_trondelag/1.7313067

Now I know were my tax money goes!
But where we really need the highway, nothing happens!

you mean where you really need a highway? ;)

oslo and eastern norway is already spoiled when it comes to this..

like my driving teacher said the other day "this car has 6 gears, but only 5 can be used in bergen.. the 6th one is for oslo" :lol:

at first i laughed, but then i realized.. thats actually not a laughing matter at all :ohno:

^^Well, we have something similar at E6/E18 Vinterbro, that are used at special incidents. It's used far to rarely though. But if something has happened on E18, it's good to know, so you can just take E6 instead into the city.

they will be starting the constrution of a tunnel related to ringvei vest very soon..

http://www.bt.no/nyheter/trafikk/Barberer-aassiden-1164722.html

heres what itll look like when finished
http://images.bt.no/btno/multimedia/dynamic/00666/ringvegvestill_jpg_666382b.jpg

looks pretty badass, if i may say so myself.. :)

^^So, how long is the second step of Ringvei vest? 3 km? I thinks it quite unbelieable that one have to share a project consisting 10 km into three pieces


like my driving teacher said the other day "this car has 6 gears, but only 5 can be used in bergen.. the 6th one is for oslo" :lol:

Your driving teacher sounds quite stupid... When did Oslo get this superroads? There are long queues every single day in and out of Oslo. However, you can inform her about the super highways we have here in Vestfold, soon we will have highways (class A) throughout Vestfold :). I do understand that its not that funny to throw shit about Vestfold though... :lol:

i have no idea how long the second step is :)

and i didnt throw shit about oslo, i just adressed the fact that oslo/eastern norway has roads where you can drive 100 km/h or more and that we have no such thing in or around bergen, or western norway, for that matter.

i have no idea how long the second step is :)

and i didnt throw shit about oslo, i just adressed the fact that oslo/eastern norway has roads where you can drive 100 km/h or more and that we have no such thing in or around bergen, or western norway, for that matter.

Talk about a rich country... .
I wonder for how long people will accept this bad road construction.

^^Well, most of Vestlandet is pretty scaresly populated, and it's not weird that such hard geography doesn't have many 100 km/h motorways. When thinking how many tunnels and bridges such a motorway would require, I don't think Poland, or any other western European country would've built it earlier either.

Norway is no ordinary country. Norway is the only country along with Saudi Arabia and Hong Kong to go with a surplus the year.

The Norwegian state is flooded with capital. The simple truth is that it's more important for the goverment to ensure high pensions to their parents and themself than it is to build the country.

Maybe there will be 100 km/h when the E39 get's built to Os? Come to think of it you don't even have any road qualified for 90 km/h in Hordaland? :lol: Actually, that's quite sad...

Maybe there will be 100 km/h when the E39 get's built to Os? Come to think of it you don't even have any road qualified for 90 km/h in Hordaland? :lol: Actually, that's quite sad...

so youre finally admitting that western norway is being suppressed? :lol:

especially when taken into consideration all the values that are being created here, it is indeed very sad that we dont even get enough resources for proper infrastructure.. :ohno:

^^No, he finally admitted Vestlandet has a terrible geography. If you had the topography of Trøndelag, you would probably have many kms of motorway.

so youre finally admitting that western norway is being suppressed? :lol:

especially when taken into consideration all the values that are being created here, it is indeed very sad that we dont even get enough resources for proper infrastructure.. :ohno:

Bergen has excellent infrastructure compared to anywhere else in Hordaland, you can't say you haven't gotten enough resources when by just driving into Bergen you see all the tunnels and 4 lane roads, and other costly things when entering the city. Hordaland in general though, has terrible infrastructure. But what exactly is the point of having a motorway, when you don't have the traffic amounts required for one, once you exit Bergen's metro area?
You got nothing of any justifyable importance to connect your costly new motorway to then...:nuts:
Maybe some day the motorway from Kristiansand will be linked to Stavanger's existing network, following the rogfast with a motorway to Haugesund, and then it passing over to Bergen.

But the way i see it, first priority shouldn't be a motorway from Bergen leading into nothingness, having a ferry less connection from Stavanger to Haugesund should be more important, as it's part of the big puzzle of connecting this coast more efficiently.

^^No, he finally admitted Vestlandet has a terrible geography. If you had the topography of Trøndelag, you would probably have many kms of motorway.

so because we're located in a place with many mountains, we shouldnt get proper infrastructure?

why does everything have to revolve around money? the 1,25 million living in western norway are just as important as a group of people of the same size living in any other part of the country.. so they deserve just as many luxuries in terms of infrastructure and everything else.

and as ive stated before, economically, western norwegians are even more important to our nation.. so really, why suppress them in such a manner? is it because we speak with an annoying dialect? or with a dialect at all, as opposed to you guys? :nuts:

our geography isnt terrible, its magnificent and brings in a hell of a lot of money to our national economy in terms of tourism, so stepping on it in this fashion is nothing but a declaration of ignorance and arrogance (and it has another value than money, one which people like you wouldnt know about).

Bergen has excellent infrastructure compared to anywhere else in Hordaland, you can't say you haven't gotten enough resources when by just driving into Bergen you see all the tunnels and 4 lane roads, and other costly things when entering the city. Hordaland in general though, has terrible infrastructure. But what exactly is the point of having a motorway, when you don't have the traffic amounts required for one, once you exit Bergen's metro area?
You got nothing of any justifyable importance to connect your costly new motorway to then...:nuts:
Maybe some day the motorway from Kristiansand will be linked to Stavanger's existing network, following the rogfast with a motorway to Haugesund, and then it passing over to Bergen.

But the way i see it, first priority shouldn't be a motorway from Bergen leading into nothingness, having a ferry less connection from Stavanger to Haugesund should be more important, as it's part of the big puzzle of connecting this coast more efficiently.

yes, like those first km's from the airport, which is nearly a one-lane road consisting of mud and wooden streetlights. :lol: ingeniøren said it himself, the infrastructure in bergen is a very sad case.

Because its fucking expensive to build on our side of the country, and you know that. Plus the slightest mistake , or miscalculation can send the whole bridged motorway tumbling down into the abyss.

We also don't have the requires manpower, and spending massive ammounts of money is bad for inflation.

ever landed on the airport in bergen? its like landing in a colder version of africa :lol: i bet tourists have to check twice with someone working there to make sure that they didnt accidentally get on the wrong plane and end up in burkina faso.

norway is one of the richest countries in the world, and the excuses have been used up for why it should all be spent in oslo instead of other places.

we dont have enough manpower? why would you even pretend like thats an issue? tons of contruction projects in norway have workers from other countries, most notably poland. being in the eec we're lucky enough to have pretty much an unlimited supply of "manpower", and ive never even heard this being brought up as an issue before.

ever landed on the airport in bergen? its like landing in a colder version of africa :lol: i bet tourists have to check twice with someone working there to make sure that they didnt accidentally get on the wrong plane and end up in burkina faso.

norway is one of the richest countries in the world, and the excuses have been used up for why it should all be spent in oslo instead of other places.

we dont have enough manpower? why would you even pretend like thats an issue? tons of contruction projects in norway have workers from other countries, most notably poland. being in the eec we're lucky enough to have pretty much an unlimited supply of "manpower", and ive never even heard this being brought up as an issue before.

And what about the brains? We got a lot of manpower, but we lack the QUALIFIED manpower, as the oil industry absorb those.

yeeeah, as if lack of engineers is the reason for western norways poor infrastructure :lol: dream on

It's one of many reasons, but yes, it is.

sure. well, that explains everything then.

Will you stop acting like such a bitch for once and think like a SENSIBLE being?:bash:


Why we can't have motorways spanning entire West Coast yet:

Cost:
Just the cost of it, digging the tunnels, some places you can hardly fit a 1 lane road, let alone 4 lanes, and with rockslides, it's not going to be fun making highway bridges crossing along the cliffside.

Inflation:
Spending massive amounts on large projects will fuck up the economy worse than the money lost on transportation along Vestlandet does now.

Geography:
Why does East Norway have more motorways? have you ever been in East Norway? HAVE YOU SEEN HOW FLAT IT IS where motorways usually ARE?

And even they have difficult terrain to build on. Can you imagine the COST of making the same strip of motorway from Svinesund to Oslo would make
if you made something spanning about as long along Vestlandet?:nuts:

Getting qualified personel is also an issue, because not many people want to go into civil engineering, and for motorways through this kinda terrain we're gonna need locals, not some know-it-all from engineer factories in India. And we can't expect Polacks to engineer tunnels, now can we?

whats the matter with you? you dont seem to have any other intention on this board than to completely suck up to the big and tough oslofolks. its quite embarassing to watch, really.

im not saying eastern norway shouldnt have a better and more and extensive road system than western norway, of course they should. over there its flat and they have a much bigger and denser population. its common sense, really. you dont have to tell me that.

what im saying is that the infrastructure in and around bergen (and the rest of western norway) is an utter embarassment, to the point of being completely unacceptable.

hell, even ingeniøren admits this, now why dont you get your lips off of oslos big fat ass and do the same instead of pretending like we dont deserve anything better than this because we're in western norway.

Please be a little more respectful here, we can be civil even with such strong opinions?

Last time i was in Bergen, there was a 4-lane road from downtown to Flesland (Almost), but now there is a dirt-track? There wouldn't be much sense to build motorways criss-crossing Hordaland, but one could expect a regional route with considerable trafic like Hardangervegen(also works as eastern bypass Nesttun - Arna.) to get an upgrade. Number of roads with 1-1,5 lanes are quite common on national routes troughout the whole nation, but even more so in the west and north. (There doesn't seem to be needed to mention route 60 again, would it?)

yeah, but the first couple of km's youll be wondering if youre on your way to bergen or mugadishu. its quite embarassing, to say the least..

this is however just one of the many stretches in bergen where the roads are of unacceptable quality.

why dont you get your lips off of oslos big fat ass

:nuts:

Even though Bergen or Hordaland doesn't have a 100 km/h motorway it doesn't mean that they have a bad infrastructure if that's what this is all about. As a matter of fact I think Bergen has a decent infrastructure, which by norwegian standards means good. My guess is that an average commuter in Oslo spends more time in the car then an average commuter in Bergen. And if you are going out of Bergen on a friday afternoon, I dont think you would need to calculate 2 hours extra driving like in Oslo.

I think we should be happy that Bergen just opened it's first light rail line, and maybe, if this becomes popular there won't be a need to build more motorways in the city. That would probably be the best.

Im not implying that the roads in Bergen or Hordaland is great, but compared to the rest of the country, its not much to complain about either. Whether or not a place generates alot of money to the government is not a good arguement to build roads. Why not suggest to build a motorway out to them oil riggs then?

Even though Bergen or Hordaland doesn't have a 100 km/h motorway it doesn't mean that they have a bad infrastructure if that's what this is all about. As a matter of fact I think Bergen has a decent infrastructure, which by norwegian standards means good. My guess is that an average commuter in Oslo spends more time in the car then an average commuter in Bergen. And if you are going out of Bergen on a friday afternoon, I dont think you would need to calculate 2 hours extra driving like in Oslo.

obviously, seeing as oslo is a bigger city.. now imagine how long time it must take to commute into or out of tokyo or new york. are you implying that these cities have bad infrastructure? how about moscow? its got crazy highways and one of the most extensive metro systems in the world (+ a light rail system).. ever tried driving there? its hell! your argument is invalid.

yes, i agree that we should focus on more light rail, bike tracks and a better bus system ;) this would be a lot better than building new highways, but unforunately many people dont share our way of thinking.. and because of that we need more and better highways.

danmarksplass in bergen is the most polluted area in the entire country, and due to the unimportantness of all areas outside of oslo, mindetunnelen will probably never be built as we'll never have the money. so we'll just hang around and choke in CO2 while funding your opera houses and what not..

Whether or not a place generates alot of money to the government is not a good arguement to build roads.

well, i think its a damn good argument for why that place shouldnt be treated like shit. ever heard of the term "dont bite the hand that feeds"? its not exactly the most recommended thing to do.

Exagerating a bit here, i don't know how you spend 2 hours getting out of Oslo... :nuts: Even on the worst day i've ever driven in Oslo with late fall snow-storm+friday afternoon i only used 2,5 hours crossing from Kolsås to Gardermoen. Typical extra time spent on for the road in my experience is around half an hour during the rush-hours.

Hordaland has some bad-ass infrastructure aswell, huge bridges, endless tunnels, motorways out of Bergen in 3 directions + newly opened ring-road and light-rail, but ofcourse much is still to be done, i don't understand why Mindetunnel has so low priority, the mammoth-intersection there isn't exactly efficient and as you mentioned it's a drag on development for the whole of South-Bergen. Seems a more sensible project than the airport-road who i guess works fine the way it is - Gothenburg also has a normal 2-lane road leading to Landvätter.

danmarksplass in bergen is the most polluted area in the entire country

for a short time during the most extreme winter in Bergen in decades, yes. But usually this "honour" belongs to alna, oslo. No chance to see any improvements there either (but i think it helped some when they removed the toll booths). If we see a lid in Alna, it's because private investors think it's profitable to build on top of it.

http://www.frp.no/Vestlandet+har+landets+verste+veier!.d25-SMBnK52.ips

- De fire Vestlandsfylkene som har 25 % av innbyggerne og 40 % av eksporten av tradisjonelle varer har landets verste veier, sier stortingsrepresentant Arne Sortevik fra FrP, medlem i Transport – og Kommunikasjonskomiteen.

- Mye av verdiskapingen på Vestlandet er avhengig av såkalte øvrige riksveier. Målinger utført av Statens Veivesen viser at for fylkene Rogaland, Hordaland og Sogn og Fjordane er hele 63 % av øvrige riksveier dårligere enn veinormalen.

- Vedlikeholdsetterslepet på øvrige riksveier i de fire Vestlandsfylkene er på hele 2,5 mrd.kr. Det er 33 % av det samlede etterslepet for hele landet, selv om de samme fylkene bare har 26 % av de såkalte øvrige riksveiene.

- Det sier seg selv at det må ekstraordinære løsninger og ekstraordinære midler til for å bedre veistandarden på Vestlandet, sier stortingsrepresentant Arne Sortevik fra FrP, som har tatt opp denne problemstillingen i skriftlig spørsmål til samferdselsministeren.

https://www.spv.no/om-oss/nyheter/2009/0901-taper-millioner-paa-daarlige-veier/

Taper millioner på dårlige veier

Dårlig veistandard på Vestlandet påfører saft- og syltetøyprodusenten Lerum nærmere seks millioner kroner årlig i ekstra avgifter og kostnader.

Administrerende direktør Trine Lerum Hjellhaug i Lerum AS la på Vestlandskonferansen i dag frem tall som illustrerer hvor dyrt det er å drive transportavhengig virksomhet på Vestlandet. Lerum AS har gjort målinger som viser at selskapets vogntog i gjennomsnitt bruker 1,33 liter mer drivstoff på milen på en rundtur på Vestlandet, enn på en transportetappe tur-retur Oslo.

– Det viser noen av de utfordringene vi har med veier på Vestlandet. Vi må over fjorder og fjell med vogntog som blir utsatt for stor slitasje og som bruker mye drivstoff. Våre transportkostnader utgjør 9,0 prosent av omsetningen, sier Lerum Hjellhaug.

Til sammenligning ligger de totale transportkostnadene i Europa på rundt 2,2 prosent av omsetningen.
4,6 millioner

Hadde Lerum operert fra hovedstaden, kunne det gitt en årlig brutto innsparing på 4,6 millioner kroner bare i transportavgifter til staten.

Øvrige riksveger? There is no such thing... :)

what I'm saying is that the infrastructure in and around Bergen (and the rest of western Norway) is an utter embarrassment, to the point of being completely unacceptable.



Something I've been saying since day one on this forum but you always disagree with me, talk about fickle.

:lol:

nah, pretty sure ive never disagreed with you on that :) me (and everyone in this city) always complain about the infrastructure around here..

i could have said i disagreed with you just cause i find your constant rants annoying, though :D but i kinda doubt it.

its so typical of you to not contribute to a discussion until you see a way to get me, though. its quite stupid, really.

Exagerating a bit here, i don't know how you spend 2 hours getting out of Oslo... :nuts:

My definition of getting out of Oslo might be a bit vague, but I've spent a bit over 3 hours getting to Sandefjord from Oslo which in good conditions can be done in just over an hour without risking to lose your license. That time I left Oslo at 14:30 on a friday in the end of june. Used 1 hour and 45 minutes just to get to Lier. If I had left later in the afternoon I can only guess that it would take longer time. The travel time would also increase if you drive from somewhere east in the city and not at Bislet like I did. It really doesnt matter that much and I'm not complaining, but it certainly is possible to be stuck in traffic for a while if you are bad at planing like me.

so we'll just hang around and choke in CO2 while funding your opera houses and what not..

If Bergen really is that bad, I suggest you move somewhere else :tongue3:
Just kidding. There is no reason to fight over where the government spends it's money on this forum, we can't do anything about it anyway and we probably have different opinions all of us. Lets get back to topic..

The never ending story:)

The motorways in the Bergen-area will be extended in the coming years with Svegatjørn-rådal (soon to start construction, projected speed limit 100km/h), Nyborgtunnelen and Sotrasambandet. All these projects are in the national transportation plan 2010-2019.

olabil, youre right, theres nothing we can really do about it ;) except for voting for the right political parties.

@hansadyret, at least its nice to know that the future is looking brighter for bergens infrastructure :)

Will be "exciting" to see the national budget next week. I guess it will be a all time high when it comes to road fundings as always.

nah, pretty sure ive never disagreed with you on that :) me (and everyone in this city) always complain about the infrastructure around here..

i could have said i disagreed with you just cause i find your constant rants annoying, though :D but i kinda doubt it.

its so typical of you to not contribute to a discussion until you see a way to get me, though. its quite stupid, really.

Well it would appear that you have taken over the raving ranter mantel on this forum, it's all you do at the moment, your negativity is amazing :)

Basically I think your argument about Oslo sucking the lifeblood out of the rest of the country is pointless drivel which everyone has found huge holes in.

As for motorways and roads in and around Bergen, having driven through it last month I don't see what you are complaining about, if you compare what Bergen has compared to the rest of Western Norway it's no contest, Bergen has the best infrastructure and it sure as hell doesn't look anything like Kandahar.

Well it would appear that you have taken over the raving ranter mantel on this forum, it's all you do at the moment, your negativity is amazing :)

this is bullshit. never before have during my time on ssc have i posted as many pictures and construction news as i do now. ranting only takes up a small amount of my post ;) which is quite different to what is the case with you.. i think your first post on this forum was the only one to not adress faults and lacks of this country. it must be the reason for your vivid popularity.

Basically I think your argument about Oslo sucking the lifeblood out of the rest of the country is pointless drivel which everyone has found huge holes in.

it depends on who sees it.. two political parties have been made on the fundations of my claims, and they both have a big following. a poll by vestlandspartiet projected that almost 60% of all bergensers would give them their vote. source: 57 prosent kunne tenke seg et vestlandsparti. (http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/57-prosent-kunne-tenke-seg-et-vestlandsparti-529176.html)

ive found huge holes in their arguments as well, for instance by providing news articles showing how hurt and unfairly treated western norwegians felt when ssb claimed that eastern norwegians were the main value creators in this country. i also provided a video of a former major of bergen basically tearing all their arguments apart.

As for motorways and roads in and around Bergen, having driven through it last month I don't see what you are complaining about, if you compare what Bergen has compared to the rest of Western Norway it's no contest, Bergen has the best infrastructure and it sure as hell doesn't look anything like Kandahar.

why would you compare bergen to the rest of western norway? the fact that lagos has a better road system than the rest of nigeria doesnt make it particulary good. your logic is senseless.. im speaking on behalf of all of western norway and not only bergen when i say that our infrastructure is lacking, and fortunately i have most of the population backing me.

New riksvegprojects to start construction this year:

E6 Oppdal(ST)
E6 Sentervegen - Tonstad(Trondheim)-Toll
E6 Brenna – Kappskarmo(Helgeland)-Toll
E6 Møllnes - Hjemmeluft(Alta)-Toll
E10 Solbjørnnneset - Hamnøy(Lofoten)
E16 - Fønhus - Bagn (Valdres) -Toll
E16 Smedalsosen – Borlaug (Lærdal)
E16 Voss (Hordaland) -Toll
E18 - Melleby - Momarken (Mysen) -Toll
E18 - Sydhavna (Oslo) -Toll
E18 - Gulli - Langåker (Vestfold) -Toll
E39 - Engevik sør (Stord)
E39 Vågsbotn – Hylkje (Bergen)
E39 Lavik ferjekai (Sogn)
E39 Festøy ferjekai (M&R)
E39 Astad - Knutset (M&R)-Toll
E105 Storskog - Elvenes (Kirkenes)
E134 Skjold – Solheim (Rogaland) -Toll
E136 Tresfjordbrua, Vågstrandstunnelen (M&R) -Toll
Rv2 - Slomarka - Kongsvinger -Toll
Rv7 - Sokna - Ørgenvika (Hallingdal) -Toll
Rv70 Oppdølstranda(M&R)
Rv80 Løding – Vikan(Salten)-Toll

http://www.regjeringen.no/nn/dep/sd/pressesenter/pressemeldinger/2010/statsbudsjettet-2011-fylkesvis-oversikt-.html?id=619748

Why are all these projects in Statsbudsjettet, when the government aren't paying a shit?!

If Bergen really is that bad, I suggest you move somewhere else :tongue3:


He can't move anywhere else, he's still a child living off his parents, he's only started learning to drive, so it's probably be while before flight from the horror that is Bergan is a viable option.

The big question is where would he go?

He can't move anywhere else, he's still a child living off his parents, he's only started learning to drive, so it's probably be while before flight from the horror that is Bergan is a viable option.

The big question is where would he go?

:lol:

ive been learning to drive for a while already and i do have a job! im not kiwibob enough to move from a place just because of the lack of infrastructure..

why would you call bergen horrible, though? i think its definitely the best city in the country and also among the best in northern europe.. and its definitely a more desirable place to live than molde, which is almost half the size of a number of bergens boroughs!

i am however planning to study abroad in the not so distant future, perhaps in some major asian or south american city. im leaning towards shanghai, hong kong, singapore and moscow :) after that i have no idea what ill choose to do next.

did this answer all your questions?

Not at all, the way you described Bergen comparing it to Mogadishu gives a person the impression that you believe it to be a horrible place, I on the other hand like it, it's a nice city, I wouldn't live in it, I'd rather stay in traffic free, cheaper, Molde.

Interesting choice of places to consider studying in, it would take a fairly special Norwegian to succeed in Moscow or Shanghai.

BTW whats the deal with Norwegians and capitalisation, days of the week, months of the year, town, city and country all start with a capital LETTER when writing English.

Not at all, the way you described Bergen comparing it to Mogadishu gives a person the impression that you believe it to be a horrible place, I on the other hand like it, it's a nice city, I wouldn't live in it, I'd rather stay in traffic free, cheaper, Molde.

i wasnt describing bergen, i was describing the infrastructure in bergen. i doubt there will ever be a time where i judge an entire city based on its infrastructure.

Interesting choice of places to consider studying in, it would take a fairly special Norwegian to succeed in Moscow or Shanghai.

thats quite insulting. are you implying that it wouldnt take a special new zealander to succeed there? im not even talking about becoming a big and succesful business man, i just want to study somewhere exotic and a little more exciting than here.

BTW whats the deal with Norwegians and capitalisation, days of the week, months of the year, town, city and country all start with a capital LETTER when writing English.

in english youre supposed to write days and months with capital letters.. i guess thats why norwegians do it? in norwegian only names and letters at the beginning of sentences are written in capital letters.

i wasnt describing bergen, i was describing the infrastructure in bergen. i doubt there will ever be a time where i judge an entire city based on its infrastructure.

Bergen and it's infrastructure are linked, if you liken it to Mogadishu then people think you also consider Bergen like that wonderful city.

thats quite insulting. are you implying that it wouldnt take a special new zealander to succeed there? im not even talking about becoming a big and succesful business man, i just want to study somewhere exotic and a little more exciting than here.

Why yes I do, us New Zealanders are highly adaptable people who can and do succeed where ever they end up.

None of the cities you mentioned are particularly exotic these days, I doubt Moscow ever was, it certainly isn't today, I've been there enough time to know that, they are just big cities, all more exciting than Norway, but you can get more exciting than Norway by driving to Denmark or Sweden.


in english youre supposed to write days and months with capital letters.. i guess thats why norwegians do it? in norwegian only names and letters at the beginning of sentences are written in capital letters.

The word English should always be written with a capital E :lol: as should Norwegian and Norwegians also have a capital N when writing them in English.

Bergen and it's infrastructure are linked, if you liken it to Mogadishu then people think you also consider Bergen like that wonderful city.

i doubt most people are that stupid. i should be able to tell people that it rains so much in bergen it seems like india during the moonsoon, without people instantly thinking that bergen is full of slums.

obviously i was exagerrating when comparing the infrastructure of bergen to mugadishu, and im quite surprised that you didnt get this.

Why yes I do, us New Zealanders are highly adaptable people who can and do succeed where ever they end up.

yes, youre a great example of this.. a new zealander who moved to norway and now spends a huge chunk of his spare time ranting about what a big mistake it was :lol: get over your complexes already.

None of the cities you mentioned are particularly exotic these days, I doubt Moscow ever was, it certainly isn't today, I've been there enough time to know that, they are just big cities, all more exciting than Norway, but you can get more exciting than Norway by driving to Denmark or Sweden.

why would you bring in sweden and denmark? it seems like you just took the opportunity to bring down norway once again by calling it unexciting.. how pathetic.

ive been to russia several times (might go to moscow next week), and its definitely exotic. in fact, its like another world.. though nothing like china and other asian countries for obvious reasons.

The word English should always be written with a capital E :lol: as should Norwegian and Norwegians also have a capital N when writing them in English.

what exactly is your point? i pretty much never use capital letters when writing stuff online, why would i bother? you asked why many norwegians seem to use capital letters, and i told you its probably cause thats the correct way of writing..

yes, youre a great example of this.. a new zealander who moved to norway and now spends a huge chunk of his spare time ranting about what a big mistake it was :lol: get over your complexes already.

I have not once in any of my posts said moving to Norway was a mistake, I have also never said I don't enjoy living here, what I have said is that Norway needs improving and a lot of what is done here and how things work is just downright dumb, I have never once said I don't want to be here, I have permanent residency, I am thinking about getting a Norwegian passport, I wouldn't consider it if I didn't want to be here.

i
why would you bring in sweden and denmark? it seems like you just took the opportunity to bring down norway once again by calling it unexciting.. how pathetic.

Norway is unexciting, most people except that as fact, read some travel reviews of Norway they all say three basic things, nice scenery, expensive and a little boring/unexciting. I was just pointing out you don't need to go far to find a more exciting place.

i
ive been to russia several times (might go to moscow next week), and its definitely exotic. in fact, its like another world.. though nothing like china and other asian countries for obvious reasons.

European Russian cities are not exotic, they are no more exotic than any other city in Europe, maybe with your limited outlook you find any place outside Norway exotic? If you want exotic in Russia you have to head south, Astrakhan is about the most exotic place I've been in Russia.

i
what exactly is your point? i pretty much never use capital letters when writing stuff online, why would i bother? you asked why many norwegians seem to use capital letters, and i told you its probably cause thats the correct way of writing..

When you write in English you should write correctly, sloppy habits on the web lead to sloppy habits elsewhere. I asked why many Norwegian have a problem with capitalisation, meaning why the bloody hell don't you capitalise correctly when it needed, is the standard of English they teach in Norwegian schools that bad?

BTW you should use spell check.

We have now moved far off topic, just accept I'm right, you are wrong and lets see some highway construction, after all we can't have the roads in Norway's provincial centres (like Bergen) being compared to African shitholes can we?

I have not once in any of my posts said moving to Norway was a mistake, I have also never said I don't enjoy living here, what I have said is that Norway needs improving and a lot of what is done here and how things work is just downright dumb, I have never once said I don't want to be here, I have permanent residency, I am thinking about getting a Norwegian passport, I wouldn't consider it if I didn't want to be here.

all you ever do is throw insults at norway so you should be a little more understandable when people ask you what the fuck youre still doing here.. sure, i criticize bits and pieces of my society, like the infrastructure around my city.. but as opposed to you i doubt people get the impression that i signed up here only to bash and talk shit.

especially when you say things like "a norwegian could never achieve success in moscow or shanghai, but a new zealander could", it really just makes you look like an arrogant fool. please dont get a norwegian passport.

Norway is unexciting, most people except that as fact, read some travel reviews of Norway they all say three basic things, nice scenery, expensive and a little boring/unexciting. I was just pointing out you don't need to go far to find a more exciting place.

calling a country unexciting is a downright insult.. going to a country and saying such things to the natives is just a sign of low class and possibly also quite sizeable inferiority complexes.

European Russian cities are not exotic, they are no more exotic than any other city in Europe, maybe with your limited outlook you find any place outside Norway exotic? If you want exotic in Russia you have to head south, Astrakhan is about the most exotic place I've been in Russia.

right.. it really seems like youve never been to russia. perhaps it doesnt seem all that exotic if all you do is just walk around in the streets.. have you ever had a real conversation with a russian? i guess you havent cause you dont speak russian.. well, i have and i can tell you that their mindset is completely different than the one found in western europeans.

i could travel to helsinki many times a week, but i wouldnt always be up for going somewhere as exotic as st petersburg.. even if its just a few miles further away. russians live in a completely different world than what we do here in scandinavians.

When you write in English you should write correctly, sloppy habits on the web lead to sloppy habits elsewhere. I asked why many Norwegian have a problem with capitalisation, meaning why the bloody hell don't you capitalise correctly when it needed, is the standard of English they teach in Norwegian schools that bad?

i just noticed that i misunderstood your question from the beginning.. i thought you were confused as to why norwegians always start names etc with capital letters.. i just realized that youre pissed cause apparently they never do.

i dont find it difficult at all to use capital letters when its needed, i just cant be arsed to do it on forums.. you understand the word "monday" just as well if its not written with a capital letter.

does it really seem like the standard english taught in norwegian schools is bad? tell me, how many languages do you (or the average new zealander) speak in addition to english? and how well do they speak these languages? if its one thing you as a new zealander shouldnt criticize about norwegians, its their lingual abillities as im pretty sure they far surpass the ones of average new zealanders..

BTW you should use spell check.

We have now moved far off topic, just accept I'm right, you are wrong and lets see some highway construction, after all we can't have the roads in Norway's provincial centres (like Bergen) being compared to African shitholes can we?

with such idiotic claims and arguments i doubt there will ever be a day when i accept that youre right, cause you are very far from it.

you seem to hung up in the mugadishu thing.. ever heard about people resorting to exaggeration in order to make their point come off as more clearly? dont new zealanders ever exaggerate? cultural difference, perhaps? :lol:

all you ever do is throw insults at norway so you should be a little more understandable when people ask you what the fuck youre still doing here.. sure, i criticize bits and pieces of my society, like the infrastructure around my city.. but as opposed to you i doubt people get the impression that i signed up here only to bash and talk shit.

especially when you say things like "a norwegian could never achieve success in moscow or shanghai, but a new zealander could", it really just makes you look like an arrogant fool. please dont get a norwegian passport.:

It's very easy to get a rise out of a person like you. Heøø I should get a passport just to annoy you.


calling a country unexciting is a downright insult.. going to a country and saying such things to the natives is just a sign of low class and possibly also quite sizeable inferiority complexes.:

There is even a forum dedicated to how boring Norway is.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/norway/TOAKN3IAAKT8OKG27

If you talk to most ex pats they will say Norway is boring, it's a quiet boring country in which little happens.



right.. it really seems like youve never been to russia. perhaps it doesnt seem all that exotic if all you do is just walk around in the streets.. have you ever had a real conversation with a russian? i guess you havent cause you dont speak russian.. well, i have and i can tell you that their mindset is completely different than the one found in western europeans.

i could travel to helsinki many times a week, but i wouldnt always be up for going somewhere as exotic as st petersburg.. even if its just a few miles further away. russians live in a completely different world than what we do here in scandinavians.:

My passport shows I've spent 35 days in Russia this year, last year it was 43, the year before 27, I've got another 7 days worth of visits coming up over the next 2 months, I'm pretty sure over those 105 days I've spoken to a lot of Russians, travelled to many towns and cities, far more than I suspect you have, I have two very good Russian friends, I just don't understand how you could consider European Russia an exotic destination, I doubt any Russian would consider themselves exotic either.


does it really seem like the standard english taught in norwegian schools is bad? tell me, how many languages do you (or the average new zealander) speak in addition to english? and how well do they speak these languages? if its one thing you as a new zealander shouldnt criticize about norwegians, its their lingual abillities as im pretty sure they far surpass the ones of average new zealanders..:

Why should I bother (being very arrogant here) to learn any other language when English is as widely spoken as it is, my attitude isn't any different to the vast majority of native English speakers. I can be critical when you make such a fucking mess of it, your spelling, punctuation, and grammar are appalling.

whats makes Sweden and Denmark so much more fun than Norway?