A lot of people seemed to want a Bristol transport thread - apologies for any mistakes or omissions, I'll try to correct any howlers you point out.

Development: Great Western mainline electrification
Value: £5 bn including rolling stock, signalling and station upgrades
Developer: Network Rail
Completion: 2017

Designed to improve reliability, capacity, frequency and journey times. This huge project will involve new Hitachi trains being serviced in a new depot at Stoke Gifford, the possibilty of the Digby Wyatt shed at Bristol TM being re-opened for trains to Paddington via Parkway and a possible fourth platform at Parkway. A new eastern entrance to link with the enterprise zone and an extended subway under the forecourt, are also mooted for Temple Meads.

The government is to fund the restoration of four tracks at Filton Bank, to ensure room for improved local services and potential traffic from the proposed deep water terminal at Avonmouth.



http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j477/geoffbradford/electrify_1.gif http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j477/geoffbradford/tmeast.png

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j477/geoffbradford/ProposedplatformsatDigbyWhyattShed.jpg


Development: Greater Bristol Metro
Value: ?
Developer: Local authorities and franchise holder
Completion: 2015 onwards

A scheme designed to maximise the use of the existing rail infrastructure, then expand it as the latent demand requires. Largely dependent on the government funding four tracks at Filton Bank or there is unlikely to be enough capacity to reach the target of at least one train every 30 minutes. An early aim will be to re-open the Portishead line followed by new/re-opened stations as passenger numbers build. This could be followed by the re-introduction of passenger traffic to the Henbury loop.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j477/geoffbradford/gbmr-rt-map.jpg


Development: Bus Rapid Transit
Value: £195m
Developer: Former Avon authorities
Completion: 2015-2016

In the absence of money for tram schemes, the local authorities have obtained funding from the goverment for a bus rapid transit scheme. This will involve a limited amount of guided busway, some new bus lanes and bus priority measures which will involve some road building and widening. The vehicles to be used have yet to be chosen, but will not be diesel powered and may be bendy buses because of their capacity and embarkation times. A smart card system (similar to London's Oyster card) will be introduced and all stops will have real time information and CCTV.

The scheme has three sections.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j477/geoffbradford/nfh-route20with20zones20sml.jpg


Ashton Vale to the centre (£49.6m) - which is joined by the South Bristol Link (£50.4m) to the North Fringe-Hengrove route (£95m).

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j477/geoffbradford/south-bristol-link-zones-600px.jpg


The North Fringe to Hengrove will involve a bus only junction on the M32 (a future park and ride is planned at Stapleton allotments), a new bridge over the New Cut and some re-modelling of the city centre.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j477/geoffbradford/M3220Visualisation20220800px.jpg

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j477/geoffbradford/Bristol20bridge20photomontage20south20600px_0.jpg

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j477/geoffbradford/Baldwin20after20600px.jpg


Development: Bristol Airport expansion
Value: ?
Devleloper: Bristol Airport
Completion: 2012 onwards

The airport has a phased devlopment plan to allow it to cope with up to 10 million passengers a year.

From the airport's website;
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j477/geoffbradford/site-plan.jpg


1
Expansion of the Passenger Terminal
The existing terminal will be extended to the east and west, doubling the size of the building and delivering increased capacity at security and immigration, and improving passenger comfort levels

2
Aircraft Parking
Additional space will be required to accommodate aircraft, so the existing apron (the area on which aircraft are parked) will be extended to the east and west.

3
Walkways
Two walkways (or piers) will serve the extended aprons, enabling passengers to walk between aircraft and the terminal building and reducing the use of buses to board and disembark flights.

4
Additional Car Parking
Alongside challenging targets for increased public transport use, some new car parking facilities will be required. Development will be concentrated on the north side of the airport.

5
Public Transport Interchange
Using the top level of the multi-storey car park, a new public transport interchange will provide convenient pick and drop off facilities for buses and coaches.

6
Fuel Storage
A new underground storage facility for aviation fuel will be located in the north west corner of the long stay car park.

7
Office Building
Located to the east of the existing control tower, office space will be used by airport and airline staff.


Development: Deep Sea Container Terminal
Value: £500m
Developer: Bristol Port Company
Completion: Awaiting improved economic conditions. Build time should be three years from commencement.


A new terminal designed to take the largest of the next generation of container ships. It will be constructed on a brown field site alongside the Royal Edward Dock and will have new railway sidings and a dual carriageway to the M5 junction.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j477/geoffbradford/bristol-deep-water-terminal.jpg

Looks good - Would the Port expansion also come under this thread?

Looks good - Would the Port expansion also come under this thread?

I should think so, yes. The DSCT will also be offloading 1/4 of its imports onto rail too (which is why using the Hallen loop for passenger services could prove to be difficult.

Looks good - Would the Port expansion also come under this thread?

Good point -knew I'd forget something! Added as requested.

Some really exciting projects here (rail, airport and port) and the not so exciting (BRT, south bris link)

The electrification, Temple Meads improvement/rebuild, Filton Bank and metro really ought to be considered by the local authorities & government as a comprehensive vision and not a disparate group of separate projects and aspirations.

It'll be interesting to see what response, if any, The Port Of Bristol will have with regards to the revived Severn barrage plan led by Peter Hain.

Update regarding as to what's been built so far:

The £8 million, 450 metre long, two storey walkway was completed and opened in mid 2010. The walkway connects the terminal building to eight new pre-boarding zones and enables passengers to walk to and from aircraft instead of being driven by bus, as was previously the case.

http://ukbestguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Bristol-Airport-Fliers.jpg

http://www.businesstraveller.com/files/News-images/Bristol-Airport/Bristol-walkway-main-1.jpg

http://www.kier.co.uk/uploaded/projects/586_Bristol%20Airport%20Western%20Walkway.jpg

http://www.kier.co.uk/uploaded/projects/586_Bristol%20Airport%202.jpg

http://mitsubishi.ourpressoffice.com/photo/images/MHI%20Bristol%20Airport%20Walkway.jpg

It'll be interesting to see what response, if any, The Port Of Bristol will have with regards to the revived Severn barrage plan led by Peter Hain.

Is there a thread for this anywhere?

Probably, although I doubt the barrage will come to fruition. Not in the next 10 years at least, hopefully never.

There was a thread once but think it might have been closed/locked a while back.
I wouldn't say it is dead in the water though - only last month Peter Hain stepped down with getting the severn barrage up and running high on his wish list:
http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Peter-Hain-steps-shadow-Welsh-secretary/story-16078538-detail/story.html

On another transport front, been driving through those beautiful m4/m5 roadworks twice every day so thought at least by documenting the progress I might be able to give something back to those who are not able to experience such pleasure.
The pictures do not look much, but things are moving along nicely. I saw the first steel supports in place last night for the new signage/camera gantries(if that is what they are called?) atop the concrete plinth, and most of the groundworks/landscaping/reinforcement for the extended hard shoulder looks to be complete.
I only drive the m4 section so do not know if progress is mirrored on the m5.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa272/Berbaking/2012-06-29143117-1-1.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa272/Berbaking/2012-06-29143106-1-1.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa272/Berbaking/2012-06-29143224-1-1.jpg

See all that traffic on the M4 two or three times a week as I speed past on the train. :smug:

So they're making this bit of the M4/M5 like the M42 nr Birmingham Airport? Using the hard shoulder in rush hour.

Schmeek, is that you?
------------------


Regarding other port news, this news tidbit is fairly interesting:



Cruises to leave from Avonmouth.



AVONMOUTH is set to become Britain's latest holiday cruise port.

Once Bristol's busiest docks, but now overshadowed by its near neighbour Royal Portbury, it is about to undergo a revival as a departure point for thousands of sea-going holidaymakers.


Cruise and Maritime Voyages revealed today that it would be launching a full programme of cruises direct from Avonmouth next year.

The UK company operates two "classic and traditional" style cruise ships, Ocean Countess and Marco Polo. Ocean Countess will be sailing from Avonmouth. The 17,500-tonne vessel is a former Cunard ship and offers 'traditional, smaller-ship cruises'.

Sue Turner, spokeswoman for the Bristol Port Company, said they were delighted the cruise ships would be operating from Avonmouth.

She said: "If you go back in history, you will see that Brunel had a vision of opening up travel for people by taking them by rail to Bristol and then across the Atlantic and other parts of the world by ship.

"What we have now is a 21st century version of that vision.


Departures start in February with a 28-night voyage to the West Indies, followed by a 15-night cruise up to the Norwegian Arctic region in search of the Northern Lights.

At Easter there is the opportunity to cruise to Spain and Portugal on an eight-night cruise, while during April there is a choice of five cruises including a special Springtime Gardens cruise to Dublin, Guernsey, the Isles of Scilly and Falmouth; a Celtic theme cruise with visits to Ireland, Scotland and the Isle of Man, and another to the spectacular Norwegian fjords.

The final one of this debut season will be a ten-night cruise called Treasures of the British Isles.

Announcing the launch of cruises direct from Avonmouth, the firm's commercial director Chris Coates said: "Our first eight departures of Ocean Countess in 2013 will be from Bristol Avonmouth.

"We have already established a following of regular passengers from the South West of England so we have every confidence that our decision to add the port to our portfolio will be welcomed. Our research, based on customer satisfaction questionnaires, shows that 95 per cent of our passengers rated the enjoyment of their CMV cruise experience as excellent or good.

"Our feedback also shows that a convenient departure port is a key factor, hence our plans for Bristol."

Mrs Turner added: "Cruise holidays are now very popular and instead of the hassle of flying out to Mediterranean ports to get on a ship or travelling to Southampton, people will be able to use the M4 or M5 which makes the whole thing a very easy proposition.

"We can also offer high security parking which means people know they can leave their vehicles in complete safety.

"All in all, it makes cruise holidays very easy and we are delighted these voyages are being offered from our port."

Prices start from £399 for the five-night night Springtime Gardens cruise.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Cruises-leave-Avonmouth/story-16468043-detail/story.html




Thoughts?

Schmeek, is that you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HAUzVJPM2g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

The campaign for the Bristol Metro are claiming success with £100m allocated in the city deal for the Metro; http://greaterbristolrail.com

Detail is very thin on the ground at the moment but the Post is saying a transport authority will be set up with control over all transport funding; http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/pound-1billion-revolution/story-16481396-detail/story.html

According to BBC's Robin Markwell on Twitter the money for a metro is conditional on agreement between local authorities about a regional transport body; https://twitter.com/robinmarkwell/status/220827051274412032

Should provide the carrot to reach a speedy settlement. :)

Ah, the whole financing situation makes much more sense then, all the articles I've seen so far were very confused about it. Let's hope this is actually enough for them to get their act together.

Good news that the government are knocking heads together over transport. They should have done this 15 years ago and we wouldn't have had the "tram terminus" debacle that lead to us losing light rail in Bristol.

In other transport news, I noted this morning that the first two new gantries have gone up across the M4 at the Almondsbury Interchange.

According to BBC's Robin Markwell on Twitter the money for a metro is conditional on agreement between local authorities about a regional transport body; https://twitter.com/robinmarkwell/status/220827051274412032

Should provide the carrot to reach a speedy settlement. :)

Hopefully Elfan Ap Rees has changed his tune since last time:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Greater-Bristol-transport-authority-hopes-fade/story-11260894-detail/story.html

There is surely no defensible position against a regional authority if the price of disagreement is over £100m investment. Wouldn't put it past these people though.

Hopefully Elfan Ap Rees has changed his tune since last time:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Greater-Bristol-transport-authority-hopes-fade/story-11260894-detail/story.html

They might need to 'bribe' him with some early improvements around Weston to get his agreement. Maybe have the Weston to Yate phase of the Metro done before the Bristol to Bath improvements.

Dronkula: looks like he's getting Weston-super-Mare M5 junction 21 improvements (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-18735485) in return. Though I'm sure those things have nothing to do with each other and the timing is pure coincidence.

Maybe you've seen it, but this I figured people would find this muito interessante.

gL_So666mYY

The governments HLOS and SoFA (basically the governments vision for the railways) are being released on Monday so we should expect some leaks over the weekend in relation to electrification of the GWML.

As a transport professional, I cannot understand how the Long Ashton BRT has a business case if Portishead passenger line reopens.

My suggestion would be to
1. Develop North Bristol Fringe to South Bristol as a faster light rail scheme. If Nottingham can afford to develop its third line, why shouldnt Bristol ? We have a more successful economy and higher GVA.
2. Convert Severn Beach line/Henbury Loop to Light Rail
3. Develolp north and south Hub interchanges at Windmill Hill (connects south Bristol scheme to Portishead, WSM rail) and Stapleton Road (connects Severn Beach/Henbury line and Yate/Parkway and Northern Fringe line). Both Hubs would provide fast links to Broadmead and Centre avoiding Temple Meads.
4. Metro services to Lawrence Hill should support much denser development, to achieve this huge roundabout should be scaled down, with underpass to St Phillips Causeway if necessary.

That's interesting CitizenSanchez, can totally understand why interchanges avoiding TM would be desirable but why convert Severn Beach & Henbury Loop to light rail? The freight services along the Henbury loop surely makes this a non starter?

[QUOTE=Pompey77;93182368]That's interesting CitizenSanchez, can totally understand why interchanges avoiding TM would be desirable but why convert Severn Beach & Henbury Loop to light rail? The freight services along the Henbury loop surely makes this a non starter?[/QUOTE

I'm not hung up on a precise modal solution, rather the principle of a high frequency service. Would need to be every 15 minutes to make it attractive. With 5000 housing units planned to be built on Filton Airfield, and the expansion of CribbsMall, there needs to be a proper public transport alternative, or else there will be congestion problems.

The hubs would provide fast links to the Centre/Habour/Broadmead and would help to regenerate run down areas like Bedminster and Stapleton Road. This is how we approach regeneration in East London where I work and it is paying massive dividends. Obvously the scale is different in Bristol but the principles are the same and could be as effective. :):

Well I think everyone with experience of the current Severn Beach service is with you on the question of frequency.

Unfortunately (or potential not?) we are stuck with heavy rail on the Henbury Loop & Portishead routes.

Going back to the Staple Hill-Centre tram route, Metro/tram interchange could be encouraged at Lawrence Hill instead of TM (The lines cross here so much easier interchange for metro passengers from Severn Beach/Henbury Loop) but from here the tram would still have to continue to TM to provide an easy link for national rail passengers into town...

The Henbury loop really is a pig to consider for high-frequency services. SGC decided to put the housing estate on Filton Airfield on the premise that a station on the Henbury Loop would mitigate any extra car traffic created by the development.
However, BPC have already been allocated line capacity for the DSCT. The problems then are:
a) It is on a steep hill (when you see frieght trains going through the airfield, they are *very* slow)
b) It is single-line for part of it
c) It is in a deep cutting
d) The Stoke Gifford junction is quite busy

In effect, without a substantial 8-figure investment, it's a non-starter.
(BTW, SGC didn't even commission a technical report from NR to determine its feasibility.......ohhh, the North Fringe is going to be fun in five years!)

How many freight trains are they expecting to be running on this route? If its enough to prevent regular-ish passenger services to Henbury & North Filton then surely they will cause some serious problems along Filton bank (even after 4tracking) and through Parkway too? Surely they will mostly be night time operations?

I cant see this route being an immediate priority anyway reopening to Portishead and major improvements to Severn Beach will surely come first.

What is the rail line along Spike Island? Looked pretty disused when I visited.

that's the harbourside railway, it runs from the M-shed along the habour then between the buildings and under the road down to near the create centre.

How many freight trains are they expecting to be running on this route? If its enough to prevent regular-ish passenger services to Henbury & North Filton then surely they will cause some serious problems along Filton bank (even after 4tracking) and through Parkway too? Surely they will mostly be night time operations?

I cant see this route being an immediate priority anyway reopening to Portishead and major improvements to Severn Beach will surely come first.

The plan is that up to 40% of all the frieght taken out of the DSCT will be carried by train. That means 600,000 TEUs (Twenty-foot Equivalent Units - i.e. metal containers). The average frieght train carries about 100 TEUs, so 6,000 trains per annum, or about 17 per 24 hours *in each direction*. Remembering that the line is single-track for part of its length and a train therefore leaves the line blocked for about 10 minutes, this doesn't leave much scope for high-frequency services to share.

Blimey that is a lot of trains. So what improvements do you foresee (beyond building the stations and redoubling the single track section) would be required for frequent passenger service (say 3 per hr each way)?

Triple track would do it. I'd estimate that would cost about £200m.

£500m Heathrow link to cut times on Great Western line

"A new £500m rail link to Heathrow Airport has been given the go-ahead which will cut journeys by up to 30 minutes for travellers. (...) From 2021 they will no longer need to travel via London Paddington." (story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18817874)).

Guess that's only some kind of cross-rail link from Reading/Slough to Heathrow, but still rather nice. Must surely be good for Bristol!

Alas, Bristol Airport is not happy (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Airport-s-fears-pound-500-million-rail-link/story-16528657-detail/story.html). If only they got their heads out of their ... and started to fix the rather ridiculous surface access to the airport. Sure, a direct rail link is considerably more expensive than a few new busses, but now that the Bristol Metro is taking off, a direct link in 10 years time should be feasible as part of the Bristol Metro, even with less than the 15m passenger per annum that the masterplan suggests are required for a viable rail link.

^^
They are right to an extent, it is folly to continually spend such huge sums on improving access to an airport so constrained in its ability to grow.

Triple track would do it. I'd estimate that would cost about £200m.

That then makes it an unlikely prospect for the foreseeable. Would need some mighty developer contributions to raise that sort of sum.

Where to start? Most obviously with thanks to Geoffbradford - a wonderful idea to have a transport thread. I have always felt a little twinge of guilt when banging on about transport in the main Bristol thread. These are suddenly exciting times in transport, and it will be good to discuss and record things as they happen.

What is the rail line along Spike Island? Looked pretty disused when I visited.

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/IMG_0979.jpg

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/IMG_0974.jpg

Until recently, this was the preserved route for a light rail line, to connect with the Portishead line at Ashton Gate. Now (and I can feel my blood beginning to boil) it is the route for the stupid Bus Rabid Transit Line 2 from 400 yards from Temple Meads to a park and ride that will get much quieter when the Portishead line reopens. In short, it will be ripped up, and replaced by a concrete busway, with rails set into it so the Harbour Railway can at least run a token service on Sundays. This monumental folly is supposed to be costing us £49 million, although given that West of England Partnership spent £1 million on the inquiry alone, according to Bristol Evening Post (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Rapid-Transport-inquiry-cost-pound-1-million/story-16481381-detail/story.html), the final tab could be a lot more. Stop BRT2 (http://stopbrt2.org.uk/), a pressure group opposed to this act of wanton political vandalism, did a pretty good job of rubbishing WEP's business case at the Inquiry. The inspector gives his verdict in the autumn. Just before the mayoral election, then, which could yet throw a spanner in the works.

The line was last used by mainline traffic in the early 1980s, with a regular coal train delivery to what was then Western Fuel's depot at Wapping Wharf - now the car park. It was disconnected from the main line before the Portbury Dock line was rebuilt, prior to which it saw occasional use for visiting engines going to the Harbour Railway. The latter still uses it as far as the Create centre. It also saw use as a test track for the Parry People Carriers (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Parry_People_Mover_PPM35_railbus_on_Bristol_Harbour_Railway_(close-up)_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1572559.jpg) for a couple of years, successfully running the little flywheel powered trams in what could have been a demonstration of a better idea than BRT.

Before that again, the Harbour railway ran across Bathurst Basin (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/kevin.dare/main.html) over a bridge (shown in the photo on that link) into the tunnel next to the Ostrich pub. The bridge over the main road by the Grosvenor Hotel, which took it into Temple Meads, was demolished in the 1990s. Ah, had we known then what we know now!

I might start a Bristol Mayoral thread, but I was chatting to one of the candidates tonight (Tim Collins), who has a long history in Bristol politics, trying to get light rail to the city when he was chair of the planning, highways and transport committee. Not a massive fan of BRT2, but very keen on quickly developing the heavy rail metro (and also thinks light rail would be better use of the old Midland line up to Mangotsfield, despite the inevitable scuppering by Sustrans).

I might start a Bristol Mayoral thread, but I was chatting to one of the candidates tonight (Tim Collins), who has a long history in Bristol politics, trying to get light rail to the city when he was chair of the planning, highways and transport committee. Not a massive fan of BRT2, but very keen on quickly developing the heavy rail metro (and also thinks light rail would be better use of the old Midland line up to Mangotsfield, despite the inevitable scuppering by Sustrans).

I agree with him on the light rail for Maggotsville, Bertyboy. SusTrans could hardly argue that a tram is not Sustainable Transport, as the route would carry far more people on trams than it currently does on bicycles. It would not be a SusArg. There would be fewer little kids on quad bikes, too. If it ever happened, there would be fewer buses running down Fishponds Road, meaning the cyclists would be able to use the bus lanes even more freely than now. There may even be a way to accommodate cycles by the tram track.

A

Development: Great Western mainline electrification
Value: £5 bn including rolling stock, signalling and station upgrades
Developer: Network Rail
Completion: 2017


As game changers go, this is the biggie! I took my own pictures of what will become two new platforms for Bristol Temple Meads:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/IMG_1123.jpg
One platform is still extant in what IKB would have been horrified to see being used as a car park.

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/IMG_1128.jpg
The current signal box is inconveniently situated between the new platforms and the rest of the railway network. Fortunately (although not for those who work therein) the resignalling project is scheduled to be done by 2015. After that, this signal box can be bulldozed within moments.

There are many who argue that their own little branch line should be added to the list of electrification projects. Portishead, for example, could be rebuilt, resignalled, and electrified, all within the current programmes. Alas, it is not that simple. There will be one electrification train, 23 wagons long,,,, and it wil follow the orders it is given.

It will be interesting to see what sort of dent (if any) the inspector's report puts in the BRT Ashton Vale route. As a minimum I would hope it stays on Cumberland Rd and doesn't go alongside the harbour.

I hope the council have a fall back position and have learned from the unedifying mess that surrounded the Ashton Vale stadium fiasco.

Maybe you've seen it, but this I figured people would find this muito interessante.


Muito obrigado, delerium. What sets the route apart from Bristol are the long, very wide, very straight roads. The Northern Fringe to wherever route of Bristol's proposed route ticks that box, more or less. I am not against that part of the route, which will give a quick fix to a problem, and probably will help reduce traffic levels. BRT2 certainly doesn't look promising, and should be scrapped immediately.

geoff, I hope it stays on the drawing board, and well away from the docks. It will take a brave inspector indeed to alter it much, but from what I have heard, he took the job very seriously, riding on the existing P+R route, cycling, and making his own site visits in addition to the formal events.

Going back to the GWR electrification for a moment, Amey have got the gig, worth some £700 million. A German company, Windhoff Bahn- und Anlagentechnik, will be building the train for Network Rail, and reckon it can do a full 1.6 km install in an 8-hour overnight possession. There is an article in Railway Gazette (http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/single-view/view/windhoff-to-build-network-rails-electrification-factory-train.html) about it. Sadly for we watchers of infrastructure improvements, that could mean that this £35 million marvel of the Four Sprung Duck Technique could whizz through this stretch of track (the GWR from St Annes towards Bristol Temple Meads):
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/IMG_1063.jpg

and transform it overnight, unobserved by any save the tooth fairy and the drunken reveller. I live fairly close by, and will keep eyes and ears open.

All eyes in Bristol are now on the HLOS announcement, due out tomorrow (16 July). If it includes four-tracking of the line from Temple Meads to Filton Bank, then corks will be popping, and the politburo's Executive Member for Transport will be nominated for sainthood. If not, he will probably be debagged and radished on College Green.

Heres the DfT docs; http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/hlos-2012/

The West: The Secretary of State wishes the industry to undertake
work to expand the capacity of the railway serving passengers to and
from Bristol including increasing route capacity into Bristol from Filton
Abbey Wood and increasing station capacity at Bristol Temple Meads
by bringing back into railway use the historic station building.

That sounds pretty good to me. Although the fact it doesn't specify four track is annoying, it is mentioned in the illustrative options;
West
 Filton – Bristol capacity enhancement (four-track).
 Bristol Temple Meads station capacity and incorporation of historic Digby
Wyatt train shed. Station potentially a focus of wider city regeneration.
 Route gauge clearance for different DMUs.

but these are not commitments, only potential ways of delivering whats committed to in the first paragraph.

Also indicates electrification of the route to Birmingham for CP6 (after 2019);
The Secretary of State wishes the industry to identify the most efficient
strategic electrification schemes that may be considered for CP6. This
should include freight linkages in South Yorkshire and Derby –
Birmingham – Bristol.

Heres the DfT docs; http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/hlos-2012/

That sounds pretty good to me. Although the fact it doesn't specify four track is annoying, it is mentioned in the illustrative options;


It may be more of a pointer than you think.

"The HLOS....describes strategic outcomes without referring to specific schemes but a specific scheme has been assumed for cost purposes.

West
 Filton – Bristol capacity enhancement (four-track).  Bristol Temple Meads station capacity and incorporation of historic Digby Wyatt train shed. Station potentially a focus of wider city regeneration.  Route gauge clearance for different DMUs."

I hope I'm right in this, but a re-reading suggests to me that HLOS wants to provide a certain outcome for the Bristol area. Network Rail can pursue any scheme to achieve that, but for the purposes of estimating cost, DfT have assumed four-tracking Filton Bank to BTM. Given the mix of rail traffic here, it may be the only option with any chance of achieving the strategic outcome. Also, why route gauge clearance for different DMUs rather than EMUs, given the electrification, unless there will be DMUs cascaded to Bristol from other areas?

I would prefer to see "We will definitely pay to Four Track Filton Bank", but what is written here gives me hope.

"Inclusion of a train service or an infrastructure scheme in the Department’s illustrative options does not guarantee it will be delivered; that only happens if the scheme is named in the HLOS. It does, however, mean the Department found the scheme to be a viable solution and this solution is likely to be amongst those considered by the rail industry in deciding the best and most efficient way to deliver the outputs specified.

So now it is up to NR and the ORR to hammer out the detail.

Hold on: A BIG EDIT:


Four track for Filton Bank? That’s a yes
Posted on July 16, 2012 by commsofficer
1

A corporate sweat broke out on the forehead of the four authorities when dawn broke this morning, as we waited nervously to see if the government had funded our four tracks to Filton Bank.

You can see who we were up against on the DfT website

And then Rail Minister Theresa Villiers swept into Temple Meads (looking a lot calmer than us) to confirm that four-track from Temple Meads to Filton Bank will go ahead.

Anyway, it’s all down to you again, wonderful public who like trains. Four track is the crucial bit of the jigsaw that we have to put in place to get Greater Bristol Metro Rail to work. So many, many thanks to the hundreds of you who wrote special letters to the ministers about it. Half-hourly trains in Bristol and the region, a new line to Portishead, and all those re-opened stations can actually happen.
http://greaterbristolrail.com/

Call me a cynic but;

Temple Meads to Filton bank... so that's a no to more track to parson st? Not exactly overwhelming; no timetable, costing or funding commitment. Just a lowly minister saying to a receptive audience that it will happen.

Im getting more doubtful over this tbh, I'm beginning to think that if we don't get swift agreement over devolved transport powers and a mayor who is going to fight tooth and nail for this it is unlikely to happen in this control period. Would love to be proved wrong of course, but there's no commitment from anyone at this stage. There is the perfect opportunity for the four tracking to coincide with the electrification in a single program of works but it looks as if its going to be missed.

Call me a cynic but;

Temple Meads to Filton bank... so that's a no to more track to parson st? Not exactly overwhelming; no timetable, costing or funding commitment. Just a lowly minister saying to a receptive audience that it will happen.

Im getting more doubtful over this tbh, I'm beginning to think that if we don't get swift agreement over devolved transport powers and a mayor who is going to fight tooth and nail for this it is unlikely to happen in this control period. Would love to be proved wrong of course, but there's no commitment from anyone at this stage. There is the perfect opportunity for the four tracking to coincide with the electrification in a single program of works but it looks as if its going to be missed.

Without the four track the government's aim to increase the frequency of trains to London to every 15 minutes would be on shaky ground. The metro proposals would struggle to make headway and freight trains from Avonmouth would have little capacity for expansion. I think you may be being rather too pessimistic on this one. Well, I certainly hope you are!

From http://greaterbristolrail.com/

commsofficer on July 16, 2012 at 7:24 pm said:


£100 million is in the bag and so is the major infrastructure we needed government to fund separately. There are business cases to be made for some of the stations and improvements that did not form part of the original proposals. But Greater Bristol Metro Rail is about laying the right tracks first so that everything else becomes more possible than it was before we started.

That's the history of British infrastructure investment in a nut shell. Stupid decisions like that have been made continually over decades what makes you think now will be any different?

Let's just pretend for the time being that the lack of clear confirmation and commitment, is because Westminster are waiting for the new mayor to be elected.

"No point planning anything too early when the political landscape will change in just a few months" Random minister.


[/Severe-denial/optimism]



Just as well the city managed to vote yes.

That is a likely outcome which is why I say the mayor needs to be well prepared for a fight or two with the DfT for firm commitments to carry out the work. For me it is THE election issue and it is quite damaging for people like the metro campaign, extremely admirable as their work is, to decree success now.

That is a likely outcome which is why I say the mayor needs to be well prepared for a fight or two with the DfT for firm commitments to carry out the work. For me it is THE election issue and it is quite damaging for people like the metro campaign, extremely admirable as their work is, to decree success now.

I don't think the choice of mayor will affect central government funding. The powers were devolved to the cities regardless of the mayor referendum result. The government will be well aware that neither coalition party stands much chance of its candidates winning in Bristol.

Of course it will. The government has made fairly clear that they expect to negotiate further transfers of power and money with the elected mayor. Im not saying this is a party issue but the elected individual and his (the candidates are overwhelmingly men) priorities will matter in this process. But beyond that it will be the job of the mayor or indeed the head of any LA in this country to lobby central government for resources for their patch.

Of course it will. The government has made fairly clear that they expect to negotiate further transfers of power and money with the elected mayor. Im not saying this is a party issue but the elected individual and his (the candidates are overwhelmingly men) priorities will matter in this process. But beyond that it will be the job of the mayor or indeed the head of any LA in this country to lobby central government for resources for their patch.

I wouldn't dispute that for a moment. I do not think the choice of mayor will have any effect on whether Filton Bank is four tracked, as it has implications considerably beyond the area for which a Bristol mayor is responsible. We are heading towards some sort of ITA for the area and the mayor will only be head of one quarter of its constituent parts.

I'm with geoffbradford on this one. HLOS paying to four-track Filton Bank makes everything else attainable. That was the major banker - the Metro would be a non-starter without it.
There is some very major work to be done. Apparently, the new part of the bridge over Stapleton Road will need to be rebuilt, and contains a lorra lorra ballast, just for starters. The track will need a bit of realignment, as well as the two new tracks, but I think that was on the cards for the Dr Days improvement before the resignalling project anyway. Resignalling can be done to leave provision for the four-track layout, if, as seems likely, it is done first. Similarly, electrification could be done in two parts, although all at one go will be the best way.

As for Parson Street, this was looked at in the GRIP 3 (http://www.travelplus.org.uk/public-transport/train/portishead-grip3-report) report for Portishead:
The Up Relief Line through Parson Street Junction is connected directly to
the West Depot Freightliner Terminal. In consequence the relief platform line
has goods line status. This connection will be moved to connect to the Up
Main instead. This is as a result of the siding being in use as well as to help
facilitate the proposed double junction at Parson Street. An additional signal
is required on the siding.
The signalling arrangement through Ashton Loop leading up to Parson Street
Junction will be simplified.

There is a proposal to resignal the Bristol area during 2012 – 2017. Works
around Parson Street is proposed for 2015. This being the case, the work at
Parson Street will aid this project if done concurrent, hence installed, tested
and commissioned at the same time using the same resources and the
resignalling projects disruptive possessions. The estimate has been based
on this being the case, however there is a risk the work is not done at the
same time and a risk provision has been included in the contingency figure.

These two quotes make more sense when the context of the whole document is used. Suffice to say, though, that this report, published in October 2010, shows that someone is well on the case. In short, the single junction at Parson Street will become a double, and the Freightliner Depot will connect to the Up Main, giving three tracks at least from Temple Meads to Parson Street. Simples!

So the mayor won't have to go, tricorn cap in hand, to beg for the brass to do the big job. He or she can, however, have a massive input into what is done on all these shiny new tracks in terms of stations, services, etc, as well as how it all integrates with other transport, including cycle and foot. Planning issues can now also begin to take the Metro into account. Or so I reckon. Time will tell, but I think today, Pompey77, is a better day than you think it is.

I know this means two consecutive posts, but, hey! This thread is about transport. If no-one else is bothered, I am!

Bristol Evening Post (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Green-light-long-awaited-rail-improvements/story-16547255-detail/story.html) have given details of reactions around the area:
TRANSPORT ministers have given the green light for a package of long-awaited rail improvements – the first step in making the dream of a Bristol Metro possible.

Government minister Theresa Villiers unveiled a series of improvements for the rail network around Temple Meads on a visit to the city.
​
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/images/localpeople/ugc-images/275775/Article/images/16547255/3970543.png
Transport minister Theresa Villiers at Temple Meads


Yesterday's announcement, part of a multi-billion-pound package of improvements nationwide, means two extra lines of track will be opened between Temple Meads and Filton.

The move means that a huge bottle-neck will be eased, opening the way up for increased services in and out of Bristol's main station.

There are also plans to reopen the old Digby Wyatt sheds at the side of the station – creating two new platforms in the process.

Network Rail, the firm which operates Temple Meads, has announced it wants to create a new main entrance at the station, opening into a main concourse which would run under the existing platforms.

Ms Villiers said: "This announcement is really great news for Bristol. Improving our transport system is a key part of the Government's strategy.

"We think it is vital for the region's economy that we have a transport system that works and is affordable."

The minister also confirmed that Bristol will get a direct rail link to Heathrow Airport, which will see current journey times cut by 30 minutes.

The line between the city centre and Filton was reduced from four to two tracks in the early 1980s, preventing more trains from being run and causing delays due to congestion. The widening of the track is seen as crucial for the half-hourly services to all local stations that are proposed under the Metro scheme.

A spokesman for the pressure group Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways (http://fosbr.org.uk/) said: "This is fantastic news. This piece of vital investment will enable half-hourly services to all local stations – the Greater Bristol Metro – something FOSBR has been campaigning for, for many years."

"We are delighted, because it will make an integrated transport system possible. When the extra tracks are laid and new services running, the train will become even more convenient for local and longer distance journeys.

"This is a victory for local campaigners, our local politicians and the public, who have lobbied long and hard for a half-hourly service."

Patrick Hallgate, who is in charge of Network Rail in the South West, said: "We are excited by these Government announcements to add to the already massive investment programme on the Western route.

"Temple Meads station is at the heart of the new Enterprise Zone and these improvements are vital in terms of opening up the city.

"The station is no longer fit for purpose and what we are trying to do is create a station suited to the needs of Bristol as it is today.

"We had suspected that these items would be included in the new investment programme but it is good to see the Government's commitment to these schemes."

The business community also welcomed the announcement.

Phil Smith, managing director of Business West, which represents the area's companies, said: "This is great news for the South West.

"Our recent survey of businesses across the West of England area found that traffic congestion was the most significant disadvantage for businesses located in the sub-region.

"Business supports the Government's strategy to provide long-term strategic investment to improve transport infrastructure, rather than simply looking at short-term fixes. We will continue to push for a modern and efficient rail system that supports growth and improves competitiveness."

James Durie, Director of Bristol Chamber of Commerce, said he was particularly pleased with the latest news.

He said: "Rail is one element of our transport infrastructure that our members constantly tell us that they want improved.

"It is fantastic news that the Secretary of State wishes the industry to undertake work to expand the capacity of the railway serving passengers to and from Bristol. "Increasing route capacity into Bristol from Filton Abbey Wood and increasing station capacity at Bristol Temple Meads by bringing back into railway use the historic station building, will be a big boost for business in this region."

Transport Secretary Justine Greening also announced yesterday that the full details of the next Great Western rail franchise will be made public by the end of the week.

All seems rather upbeat to me! Even Theresa Villiers looks surprised, and she was the one bringing the news.

All coming together rather well if you ask me.
Seems to be snowballing as well, and I for one am very positive about all this.
It does seem ironic though that things are all getting sorted before the mayor takes up his seat...and there are now concerns that he/she might rock the boat too much!

All coming together rather well if you ask me.
Seems to be snowballing as well, and I for one am very positive about all this.
It does seem ironic though that things are all getting sorted before the mayor takes up his seat...and there are now concerns that he/she might rock the boat too much!

Ha ha, my dear scrumping friend! There's still plenty for an aspiring mayor to organise, don't worry. This is the groundwork. There is much to do to integrate transport around the area, from deciding who runs the gig, to what else can be added, to smart ticketing - the lot. The Metro, although it will take 4 years or so to bring into existence, can be seen as real now for the purposes of planning new homes and businesses. This is the real kick start the Enterprise Zone needed, and a strong mayor with good vision can make a heck of a difference. So can a crap one, of course, but we get what we vote for.

Candidates, to the Hustings!

I shall defer to the collective optimism for the time being, but I'm not convinced that we'll see any actual work on this within the next 5/6 years.

Certainly looking forward to seeing the details of the franchise tho.

The HLOS mentions gauge changes as part of the proposals. Could this be for different diesel trains coming over to replace pacers or enhance other services. Pretty much all of Cardiff's lines will go electric, as will local lines West of London. That will free up a hell of a lot of diesels such as turbostar networkers.

The HLOS mentions gauge changes as part of the proposals. Could this be for different diesel trains coming over to replace pacers or enhance other services. Pretty much all of Cardiff's lines will go electric, as will local lines West of London. That will free up a hell of a lot of diesels such as turbostar networkers.

That had me thinking, too. There may need to be gauge changes to accommodate OHLE and pantographs, although I can't think of any low bridges over the new line. Apart, of course, in the Severn Tunnel. If that has to be done, then it will be a huge job - the floor will have to be lowered, for the whole 4-mile length. Overhead rails for the power supply, rather than catenary, may be the best option.

Unless Severn Beach line and reopened Portishead are electrified, we are likely to see DMUs cascaded from other electrified areas. Cardiff is, I think, likely to be after Bristol in the programme, but Manchester to Liverpool and the Trans-Pennine Express will be done before then. Those services will be run by refurbished EMUs released from Thameslink, which being in London will get spanky new kit. Four tracking could be done around the same time, in 2015. There will Class 150 Sprinters, Class 156 SuperSprinters, and Class 158 Express Sprinters up for grabs, which would be nice, as well as other units. Turbostars were built with longer routes than ours in mind, so are unlikely to come our way.

Assuming Portishead is reopened, it is unlikely to happen before early 2017. We could see two trains per hour to Severn Beach, 2 tph Portishead to Bath, 2 tph Weston super Mare to Yate, and 2 tph from Severn Beach to Bath - these fit into a clockface service (just!). Is that 8 trains needed? Not sure. Or there could be 2tph Portishead to SVB, and a shuttle to BTM. What is clear to me from even thinking about it is that route planning is a job for the experts, and this may even mean a fresh start for the whole of the timetable through Bristol. If you get a train from Abbey Wood to Temple Meads, it could come from Wales, Birmingham, Yate, London, Great Malvern, Cheltenham, Swindon and be going to Bath, Weymouth, Westbury, Taunton, and a whole lotta other places. All in all, a headache, especially when anything you do to services beyond Greater Bristol will affect other areas too.

All of this, of course, will need thinking about before the new franchises are agreed, and put into place in contracts whether stations and lines exist or not.

A exciting time for Bristol railways, at any rate!
Never thought I'd live to see the day etc :)

I have read all the reviews about bristol transports and it helps me aloot to know about it, and i would like to compare this service with surfcity transfers because just like Bristol transport , surfcity transfers also provides a Reliable and Professional Luxury Chauffeured Transport Service on the
Gold Coast, Brisbane, Cruise Terminals, Sunshine Coast, Ballina and Byron Bay.

Yeah...well......the Bristol Metro will provide reliable and professional luxury services to Severn Beach. Which is a bit like the Sunshine Coast. Without the Sunshine. Or the Coast.

There's mud!

Yeah...well......the Bristol Metro will provide reliable and professional luxury services to Severn Beach. Which is a bit like the Sunshine Coast. Without the Sunshine. Or the Coast.

There's mud!

Bloody hell, Bertyboy, it doesn't even have a beach! It does have a Severn, though, I'll admit that.
What it does have is what is euphemistically called affordable housing, and space for more. This is a town that was a farm before the railway came in 1900. Now there are some 2,500 people living within a 10 minute walk of the station, few of whom can walk to work. If they work in Bristol city centre, their options currently are
drive 13 miles each way, and pay £7.00 per day to park;
catch one of the two daily 624 buses each way, journey time 1 hour, cost £7.50, with an earliest arrival time 8.30 (although that may be brought back to as early as 8.29 if the stupid £49m BRT2 is built);
take a 38-minute rail trip on one of the 11 trains daily along what Thomas Cook call one of the prettiest rail lines in Europe, cost £3.00 return, earliest arrival before 7am.
Then there are 9 intermediate stations before Temple Meads (soon to become 10 when the Avonmouth Park and Ride station opens in 2013), with progressively larger populations nearby as you get closer to Temple Meads. Severn Beach, nice though it is, is somewhere to come from, not go to.
Remember that a report to then transport secretary Alistair Darling in September 2005 recommended ripping up the rails to build a busway (a bit like the stupid £49m BRT2). (Anyone listening at West of England Partnership? Thought not.) Luckily, pressure was brought to bear, and from May 2008, Bristol City Council provided a subsidy of £450,000 annually to provide three trains every two hours.
A bit of a gamble? Passenger numbers had increased over 90% by May 2011. The subsidy was cut by half, an extra service provided in the evening, and three-car trains put on during peak hours. With ticket vending machines reducing the chance to travel anywhere but Temple Meads for free, this line could soon be revenue neutral. I am convinced that, but for the success of the Severn Beach line with modest investment (what WEP propose to waste on the stupid £49m BRT2 would keep it going for 245 years at current subsidy level) we would have no chance of the Metro system, and probably not see Portishead reopened ever. The Severn Beach line was its own feasibilty study, imho.

There is also, on the route, our new luxury cruise terminal;

Cruises to leave from Avonmouth

AVONMOUTH is set to become Britain's latest holiday cruise port.

Once Bristol's busiest docks, but now overshadowed by its near neighbour Royal Portbury, it is about to undergo a revival as a departure point for thousands of sea-going holidaymakers.

according to Bristol Evening Post (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Cruises-leave-Avonmouth/story-16468043-detail/story.html), and thank you delerium for the pointer. Whilst this may have had some BEP readers rolling helpless on the floor with laughter, it isn't as daft as it sounds, and once established as a departure point, Avonmouth could well become a port of call for visiting liners too. With Mrs BoyamIjealous, I am a veteran of some 4 cruises so far. Some ports I have seen - Bridgetown; Barbados; Catalina Island, California; and Funchal, Madeira for example - are quite attractive places in their own right. Others - Haifa, Israel; Los Angeles; Port Said, Egypt to name three - are like Avonmouth, workaday ports not considered pretty by even their mothers, but close to beautiful places. Cruise lines, in my experience, will take any opportunity to dip their grubby mitts in your pocket, and will probably offer a coach excursion. They do in Rome, for over £30, where you can walk out of the port, get a €6.00 day ticket at the station, change to tram at Trastevere, and enjoy yourself. An excursion to Bristol will be £25 or so. In this digital age, though, the Savvy Travvy will know he can walk out of the gate to Avonmouth Station, and £3 later arrive at Temple Meads, the start of a ride by ferry through the docks and back to the centre for exploring and shopping, and still get back to the Royal at Avonmouth in time for pre-embarkation cocktails, canapes, and dancing. (alright, cider, crisps, and a fight/shag/both).
The Severn Beach line, whilst maybe no jewel in any crown, is certainly not the cherry on the dog turd. Bristol City Council are to be congratulated on their tiny investment (this was not a WEP project then), even if they hoped to show that it was a no-hoper. (My inner cynic got the better of me for a moment):cheers:

^^Indeed, potential excursions to Bath, Wales, Oxford, Wells, even jolly old brizzle.
---------
One thing the potential Bristol metro could do, is allow the chance for Avonmouth to develop as a 'proper', i.e. far more diverse, secondary employment centre (and maybe even a place to live, in say 20 years) as opposed to what is effectively a giant industrial estate. Having sections that were something akin to the area around the M4/A4 in Brentford-Chiswick wouldn't be too shabby:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=51.486942,-0.316887&spn=0.065311,0.181789&hnear=Plymouth,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=13&layer=c&cbll=51.487049,-0.316664&panoid=iKoKcq-6M68p90ME4QXT7Q&cbp=12,316.91,,0,-4.5

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=51.49282,-0.274658&spn=0.065303,0.181789&hnear=Plymouth,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=13&layer=c&cbll=51.493092,-0.274639&panoid=wff1hJnzsEmm6KBsgNRygQ&cbp=12,351.84,,0,1.44

[/pigflyingpigflyingfantasyfantasy]

Plenty of room to expand into; none of the area between the M49 and estuary is greenbelt, so 'in theory' it would be easy(er) to build and there wouldn't be a (significant) reduction in the city's industrial base either, maybe even a increase.

But currently the area is a little too awkward to access for commuting for most people, and in the holidays when the M5 becomes a car park, forget about it.

^^

You're alert to the potential! Given it's a 20-minute train ride at £9.00 per week from Stapleton Road (population within 5 minutes=about 4 million, I sometimes think), then getting to work in Avonmouth will be no problemo. It isn't a desert there now - the DSCT website (http://dsct.bristolport.co.uk/comments) mentions 8,000 jobs protected and 1,800 new ones created. They may have trouble getting enough people in!

Apropos which, with a stack of Bibles in each hand, I would swear that when I first looked at the DSCT website, it gave an opening date of 2015. Now it says simply:

We are currently waiting for global economic conditions to improve. Once construction start the terminal will be ready in about 3 years

which in Bristol terms usually means that we will wait until everybody else has one, then order one just before they become obsolete. I'm not the only person to have noticed this though. Bristol 24/7 (http://www.bristol247.com/2012/07/18/avonmouth-should-be-at-centre-of-regions-transport-plans-33236/), in the issue dated 18/7 (see what I did there?) highlights the issue, and suggests we bloody well get on with it now. And Tim Davies, a property specialist with Colliers International, has views on transport projects within the area, too;

Tim Davies said the proliferation of major transport schemes in the area including the Great Western mainline electrification, the Greater Bristol Metro scheme, the Bus Rabid Transit schemes and Bristol Airport expansion were jostling for prominence with little or no consideration given to the potential impact on competing schemes.

How I agree, especially about the stupid £49m BRT2 scheme, which should be sacrificed on the nearest altar, of any denomination, including €500. Mr Davies' cautious, almost gloomy, outlook gives Bertyboy's cautious, almost gloomy, outlook on the Henbury loop added credence. (I always felt the same as you did, Bertyboy, that the vast container traffic would make it difficult). My priority list is:

Electrification
Four tracking to Filton Bank
Launch of Metro along Severn Beach line to existing stations
"Smart" ticketing to include all modes of transport within Metro land
Reopening of Portishead line
Expansion of Metro system to include Portishead and Weston, including new stations
BRT route from northern fringe to wherever

then, much further down the list

9992. Development of personal matter transference system
9993. Issue of "Smart" pogo sticks and space hoppers to all workers
9994. Expansion of free parking at Council House
9995. Stupid £49m BRT2 link

I might stop before the last one.

Is any redoubling of the Severn Beach line planned? To my knowledge, only the tunnel from the gorge to Clifton Down is permanently single track.

And further to that, just how intensive a service could be run on the line in its current condition, and in a re-doubled condition?

Is any redoubling of the Severn Beach line planned? To my knowledge, only the tunnel from the gorge to Clifton Down is permanently single track.

And further to that, just how intensive a service could be run on the line in its current condition, and in a re-doubled condition?

It's currently double at Clifton Down and Avonmouth, purely as passing places. It's 8 minutes from Stapleton Road to Clifton Down, and 11 minutes from Clifton Down to Avonmouth. This may explain the odd service intervals now, but I reckon a half-hourly service each way may fit the current layout - just. The stretch from Avonmout to SVB is the longest at 13 minutes, and would need to bring a second platform into use at least to get anything more than 2 tph. The freight line via Hallen is double, although the way the line is laid out, the SVB line is effectively single track from just past Avonmouth Station to SVB. Unless that is dealt with, you would have a very long turnaround time at SVB of around 15 minutes if there were points splitting the line to two platforms just before the station. It probably wouldn't be worth the cost for a Severn Beach of the size it is now to redouble the line from Avonmouth, so you will probably see alternate trains turning around at Avonmouth. Clifton Down is, of course, already equipped with a turnback, currently used only to get the timetable back on track by short running Avonmouth trains.
The line was doubled for a lot of the length in the olden days. Whether the tunnels would fit double lines with modern trains, I don't know, and the bridge at Sea Mills, over the mighty River Trym, isn't very strong. Bringing the points and signal at Clifton Down back to Montpelier would be straightforward technically, as would bringing Avonmouth's double stretch back to before Shirehampton. That would reduce the time taken to clear the single track to 3 minutes (SRD to MTP) and 4 minute (CFN to SML), and would probably double the capacity. Shire and the new park and ride station would need footbridges, though.

My father worked for Tom Williams back in 1967 to 1970 (approx) about the time Tom changed the name to Freightline Transport Ltd. It grew into a very large concern and eventually disappeared into the Curries of Dumfries company.
I have a few pictures of my dads time at Freightline and a lot of fond memories of the lorries and characters, I spent a lot of Saturdays at the Williams farm in Felton from where Freightline operated out of, from seeing the drivers getting payed on the village green to watching the Volvo F86, Guy Warrior, Scammell Highwayman, and as far as I know the first Scania 110 in the west being maintained.
I know a lot of Bristol drivers have had some connection with Freightline over the years and I would love to hear recollections and to see some pictures of this colourful company.

Stop BRT2 (http://stopbrt2.org.uk/) will be handing out this leaflet (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=138b40a7a57829f0&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D4ac234216d%26view%3Datt%26th%3D138b40a7a57829f0%26attid%3D0.1%26disp%3Dsafe%26realattid%3Df_h4zkdhdc0%26zw&sig=AHIEtbQ7kIz1AG5YpYW9uQ0MSd9sU-J8Nw&pli=1) at Prince Street swing bridge tomorrow. It concerns the stupid £49 million BRT2 route primarily, but also outlines the effect the whole BRT project will have on the Harbour area. IMHO, it makes for worrying reading.

I'm very impressed by the knowledge and discussion going into this forum.

After reading everyone's contributions I can see that this is a very exciting time for Bristol transport and a period that will play a fundamental role in the future development and shape of Bristol and surrounding region.

I noticed Hitachi have won a contract to build the new trains and plans to establish a depot in Bristol as part of the £4.5 billion.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/south-west/74192-hitachi-plans-doncaster-depot-part-45bn-deal

I noticed Hitachi have won a contract to build the new trains and plans to establish a depot in Bristol as part of the £4.5 billion.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/south-west/74192-hitachi-plans-doncaster-depot-part-45bn-deal

Expect the residents of Stoke Gifford/Little Stoke to kick up further fuss! They've been against the TMD on the junction there for months, and now it's confirmed to go ahead, there'll be a backlash from people wanting to move it to St. Philips (to replace the HST TMD).

Expect the residents of Stoke Gifford/Little Stoke to kick up further fuss! They've been against the TMD on the junction there for months, and now it's confirmed to go ahead, there'll be a backlash from people wanting to move it to St. Philips (to replace the HST TMD).

RupertSB, Bertyboy's hit this nail right on the head. They have been up in arms already at their local council giving the depot the nod.

Getting my Sinclair Cambridge calculator out, I see that an average of 23 trains per depot will be the order of the day. They will arrive at and depart from the TMD under electric power, and will be serviced behind closed doors, in a depot built to 21st century standards. St Phillips was built when locomotives had their fireboxes raked out nightly, and restoked with coal. They currently service diesel trains, including the Intercity 125s. I live about the same distance from there as Stoke Gifford is from this new place, and hear and smell nothing. I think the engineers are more likely to complain about the noise coming from Little Stoke. This is fuss about nothing, and will go away soon. Roll on 2017, I say.

I tried to get a few "before" pictures of the Filton depot. Not easy, but I'm not giving up yet. The new trains aren't even on the drawing board properly so far, yet they have their detractors in other places. The Intercity 125s they will replace have been excellent workhorses; fast, big, and reasonably comfortable if you can get a seat. Some say the IEPs will be mere EMUs, and will be noisier because of having a motor under every carriage. We shall see. Change is inevitable, though, as the youngest 125 is 30 years old. Some will continue on unelectrified lines, although harsh words have been spoken about plans to reduce the London - Penzance service in the new franchise. They may still be running in 2035 - almost 60 years from the first delivery. The efficiency advantages of electric trains are obvious. Carrying almost 2000 gallons of fuel uses a lot of fuel and reduces acceleration. The class 43 locos used for 125s are driven by DC electric motors, the diesel engines producing the electricity rather than driving a gear train, so what we are getting is simply a much more efficient electric train than the one we have now.

The more track is electrified, the fewer hybrids that will be needed.

From http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Future-rail-franchise-operator-run-planned-new/story-16616202-detail/story.html

Sounds promising.

THE company which will run Bristol's railways from next year will have to operate the Bristol Metro service until 2028, according to the franchise documents.

The papers confirm a three-month delay for the new Great Western Line contract, meaning First will have its current deal extended until July 2013.


The franchise document expects the winning bidder to provide:

â—� the Bristol Metro service

â—� new station at Portishead and Pill

â—� potential station at Ashton Gate

â—� extra services to Severn Beach

â—� trains between Temple Meads and Portishead.

The four companies have been asked to come up with a price for the metro scheme as part of their bids.

The future of the Severn Beach line, which is currently subsidised by Bristol City Council, appears to have been secured, with the Government taking over the funding from 2015.

But there is no promised increase in the frequency of services between London and Bristol Temple Meads, currently two per hour.

Both the electrification of the great western line and the new Intercity Express Programme, which was rubber-stamped last week, had been based on an increase to four trains per hour.

But the franchise documents say: "Bidders are free to determine for themselves whether this frequency is justified and, if so, when it should be introduced and whether it is justified all day every day."

However, some analysts believe this could favour passengers rather than the approach taken with previous franchises of prescribing, in detail, a minimum service requirement, as it will mean bidders are forced to compete with each other to offer the most attractive package.

The franchise invitation does not guarantee the Bristol Metro scheme, which has already been promised by ministers as part of the city deal package unveiled last month.

But in designating it as a "priced option", it makes clear that the government expects companies to come forward with proposals for the improvements, which it says have "considerable public and political support".

A third of all of the responses to the franchise consultation related to this project.

Proposals would include one train per hour between Severn Beach and Bath Spa, calling at all stations in between, one train per hour from Severn Beach to Portishead, and an hourly service from Temple Meads to Portishead.

Any Bristol Metro proposals must also include the re-opening of the railway to Portishead into a passenger service, the opening of a new station at Portishead and Pill, and a potential future station at Ashton Gate.

The current franchise expires in April, but the process has been held up by delays in publishing the invitation to tender.

This has been controversial because it means First Group, which avoided £800 million in payments to the government by cancelling the current deal early, will continue to operate the service for a further three months.

Under the revised timetable, bids for the franchise are expected to be received in October 2012 and the new operator will be announced in March 2013, taking over the service in July 2013.

First Group is also bidding for the new contract, and is up against Arriva, National Express and Stagecoach.

Good to see it at last. No explanation of the delays?

These are the docs;

http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/great-western-franchise-2013/

The relevant bit is on page 117 of the invitation to tender.

I like it, I think. The 2 tph minimum from Temple Meads to London Paddington looks odd at first sight. If the successful company do things the way TOCs have done before, and fulfill the basic obligation with nothing extra, that will be terrible. Hopefully, they will offer at least 4 tph, and will see the chance to make money out of the additional service as a good reason to do so. Train operators make more money out of one full train with 200 angry passengers standing all the way to Paddington than they do from two nearly full trains with everyone sat down. That needs to change. They need to be able to use the routes to the maximum, whilst still making money.

It is wonderful to see Portishead actually in print. It gives me the very distinct feeling that this time it will happen. Same goes for the Metro plan - it is weird to think we may see the first services under that brand next year, although it will be a slow build up to the full system. The stupid £49m BRT2 route will be just about useless when it is built as a result of all this quality infrastructure - I hope someone tells WEP before they order the concrete.

The delay was, I think, the result of the political process nationally. I think, and I may be way wide of the mark, that it took longer to get the money side of things sorted out than usual, what with a change of government, a coalition having to do a lot of the work twice, and the allegedly parlous state of the nation's coffers. Look at page 118:
current levels. However, discussions with Bidders and analysis of loadings have suggested that within this level a TSR minimum level of six weekday through services between London and Penzance would be provide a better balance of local versus long distance provision.
However, stakeholders have stressed the value of this connectivity, and the Department is therefore this Priced Option requires the provision of the following specification:

and you can see hurried redrafting at the last minute without time for proof reading.

Something that astonishes me (in a good way) is the realisation that those letters written by members of the public advocating the Bristol area Metro scheme, mine included, seem to have been read and taken into account. The ITT gives a link to the Greater Bristol Metro (http://greaterbristolrail.com/) website for further reading for bidders - as it is a quickly bashed together campaign website, it is surprising, but there we go. Reading further on, it looks like people power may be the order of the future, providing we have a passenger transport executive set up.

Re. BRT2 - I'm actually wondering if there's a Plan B in the drawer somewhere. The City Deal with the government includes 'flexible delivery' of the BRT, which apparently means that any savings achieved don't have to be returned but may be kept locally. This seems a somewhat odd clause to include (and bargain for) IMHO, given that the BRT schemes have already been value-engineered to the brink, and they're not exactly the kind of thing that tends to be delivered with money to spare...

Re. BRT2 - I'm actually wondering if there's a Plan B in the drawer somewhere. The City Deal with the government includes 'flexible delivery' of the BRT, which apparently means that any savings achieved don't have to be returned but may be kept locally. This seems a somewhat odd clause to include (and bargain for) IMHO, given that the BRT schemes have already been value-engineered to the brink, and they're not exactly the kind of thing that tends to be delivered with money to spare...

It isn't value engineered, it's cheap and nasty. Here's my plan B:

BoyamIjealous' Plan B

1. Scrap the stupid £49m Bus Rabid Transit Route 2.
2. Do one of the following, which will be much better value for money, and much better for the city:
a) Something, anything, else;
b) Nothing else.
3. Have a word with the nice people from Sustraco, whose ideas were brusquely poo-pooed with little real thought, because the WEP are programmed to advocated nothing but the stupid £49m BRT2 scheme.
4. Paint a bus lane on Hotwell Road inbound from the Long Ashton Park and Ride, so achieving everything the stupid £49m BRT2 route was meant to achieve, with none of the bad bits, and at a fraction of the cost.
5. Carry on with the Northern Fringe route as far as Temple Meads and the Centre, then pause to consider the effect of the emerging rail policy, as well as the outcome of the Yorkshire Tram-Train trials, on the rest.
6. Organise a multi-cultural event on College Green, with debagging and radishing of all council supporters of the stupid £49m BRT2 scheme as the headline event.
7. That's about it, really.

I'm not really a fan of the stupid £49m BRT2 scheme, which I think will do more harm than good. I think the Northern Fringe route is viable, although I reckon along the Grove to Temple Meads after leaving the Centre would be better than the Wapping Wharf option. I don't think that the good people of Bristol have yet woken up to what the whole scheme means, though. Taking Dalby Avenue as an example, we have seen the clearance of the Pring and St Hill works to accommodate the BRT, which will be following the railway line to Ashton Gate. There is a bus lane there already that is seldom used by buses, as it is quicker at most times of the day to jink right, into the ordinary road, rather than to stay in the bus lane, slow down or stop, wait for the traffic lights to change, then carry on into the traffic. The same happens at Redcliffe Hill, and probably other places I have not been by bus. I'm not saying this proves that bus lanes don't work; they do if properly thought out. The Greater Bristol Bus Network though, with its slowcase buslanes etc, cost us £76m. In Stapleton Road, it has slowed everything, buses included, to a walking pace if that. Lawrence Hill usually has cars with their "I can park where I want" lights flashing in the bus lane throughout the morning rush hour. Bath Road works well, there is no denying that, it has definitely speeded bus traffic up, and I would use it to work if it went near my office, didn't cost such a packet, and was reliable. The real big change in journey times will only come with smart ticketing, so you don't have stops of 5 minutes to issue tickets and change to the travelling public, away from the big bus lanes.

Bristol City Council have consulted, in the sense that they have said what they are going to do, and asked for views to ignore, but then the Vogons did that for their intergalactic highway scheme, which involved demolishing the Earth. I'm not suggesting that Bristol City Council and the WEP intend to go that far, but I wonder what the reaction will be when the bulldozers appear behind Gatehouse Avenue, the no-parking signs go up in St Georges Road instead of the trees, and the markers go down on Highridge Green. And when the new road begins to machete its way down the hill from the A38 towards our beautiful new Town Green, pitchforks will be waved in a threatening manner.

Being fair to our councils, this is a complete and utter irresponsible waste of scarce public money, a total dog's breakfast, and a public relations disaster in the making. It is a classic local political hotch-potch, riding roughshod through all the work done in the past with regard to light rail, ignoring other improvements already on the way, and sticking two fingers up to an apathetic electorate. This all comes just as "localism" begins to gather momentum, all so that the various political factions in (especially) Bristol City Council can poke their tongues out at the others, slap themselves on their backs, and prove that they are ready for selection as an MP who will ruin the country by showing that they have managed to ruin a city as a councillor. It is all very sad.

Apart from which, it seems OK.

Somewhat ironically the BRT2 scheme and the Portishead rail line are both projected for around a 2015-16 finish. If they do take a deep breath, step back and look at the whole evolving transport network, you would hope BRT2 would be re-thought. It was drawn up in a world where a Greater Bristol Metro seemed more wishful thinking than a realistic aspiration, a 10,000 house urban extension at Ashton Vale was imminent and a 30,000 seater stadium would already be under construction.

An inbound bus lane up Hotwell Rd would seem to replicate most of the advantages at a fraction of the cost. If they do have second thoughts (and I am not optimistic about that), we have a nice new problem, where North Somerset will want their share of the saved money spent on something that benefits North Somerset. Suggestions?

geoffbradford, You are absolutely spot on. Portishead looks like early 2017 to me, and will be built by National Rail and its contractors. The stupid £49m BRT2 scheme is supposed to be a 2015 kick off, but with Bristol City Council's expertise behind it, it will hopefully never see the light of day. It may end up like Cambridge - years late, triple the original price - and then we will be in deep doo doo.

As regards money, BCC have to find £11m for this, I think, They are closing care homes because of a £7.5m deficit in the council coffers, so there is no spare cash. The proposal for the workplace parking levy has been welcomed with open hostility. Now, I'm no Robert Maxwell, but I can't make it all add up.

I heartily agree, though, that it would be wise and prudent to re-examine some of the cloud cuckoo land figures for benefits, in the light of the metro and Portishead schemes. If anyone from the council is reading this, then here's your chance to scrap it without losing face. It will be a few million down the drain, but rather that than £49 million down the khazi.

What's the latest with the enquiry into the AV route?

What's the latest with the enquiry into the AV route?

Awaiting the inspector's report, which I think is due in the autumn.

July 2012 Provisional Airport Statistics
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=80&pagetype=88&sglid=11&fld=201207

HEATHROW: 6,569,668: -4.4%
GATWICK: 3,634,169: +0.1%
MANCHESTER: 2,174,514: +2.6%
STANSTED: 1,781,475: -5.2%
LUTON: 1,015,696: -0.4%
BIRMINGHAM: 976,759: +4.1%
EDINBURGH: 958,316: -3.4%
GLASGOW: 789,463: +0.5%
BRISTOL: 655,095: +4.8%
NEWCASTLE: 517,467: +0.5%
EAST MIDLANDS INTERNATIONAL: 494,115: -3.5%
BELFAST INTERNATIONAL: 487,860: +2.2%
LIVERPOOL (JOHN LENNON): 453,800: -17.6%
LEEDS BRADFORD: 369,470: +2.3%
ABERDEEN: 311,321: +4.2%
LONDON CITY: 262,841: -6.7%
BELFAST CITY (GEORGE BEST): 189,833: -13.9%
SOUTHAMPTON: 174,010: -9.5%
PRESTWICK: 128,941: -19.4%
CARDIFF WALES: 126,578: -15.8%



Somewhat, but happily, surprised that Bristol airport continues to perform strongly, with passenger numbers up nearly 5% from last year. It's such an extreme contrast to the massive, unabated decline that's being experienced at Cardiff Airport; any sort of turnaround in the next few years at that airport will prove to be incredibly difficult methinks.

Somewhat, but happily, surprised that Bristol airport continues to perform strongly, with passenger numbers up nearly 5% from last year. It's such an extreme contrast to the massive, unabated decline that's being experienced at Cardiff Airport; any sort of turnaround in the next few years at that airport will prove to be incredibly difficult methinks.

The unabated growth in passengers for Bristol airport is great news especially when you compare against virtually all airports. If they needed further reason to push on with the expansion plans this must be it. During difficult economic conditions to post 5% growth is slightly outstanding and must mean the supply and demand balance has not yet been obtained.

Is this anything to be concerned about guys?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-19270112

Great that Lulsgate is getting busier and busier.
Just a shame that all the GA and Biz traffic that will inevitably get pushed out doesn't have another airfield in Bristol to go to........oh, if only someone would build another runway in Bristol! :D

Is this anything to be concerned about guys?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-19270112

Hopefully not. The Invitation To Tender is a shockingly badly written document, and bears all the hallmarks of hasty revision at the door of the printing shop. Take a butchers at page 117 about Cornwall, for example:

However, stakeholders have stressed the value of this connectivity, and the Department is therefore this Priced Option requires the provision of the following specification: nine weekday through services each way between London and Penzance. These services can be provided instead of local services as long as the overall TSR minimum is met.

or the Stakeholder Briefing document:

The consultation document for the proposed Great Western franchise was issued by the Department on the 22 December 2011, and closed on the 31st of March 2012. The new Great Western franchise is expected to commence on in July 2013.

The Department for Transport announced the names of the four short-listed bidders for the new franchise on 29 [check] March 2012.

The ITT sets out the bidding process and the specification for the franchise along with the scope of the issues bidders will need to consider when formulating their responses. Bidders are required to submit their final bids to the Department on xx October 2012 and it is expected that the Department will make an announcement of the preferred bidder to operate the franchise in February/March 2013.

Clearly, no time for proof reading. The fact that the tender doesn't spell out every detail doesn't stop the bidders from making provision in their tender. The government has already put cash aside for electrification, and has offered to stump up for four-tracking Filton Bank. It will want the maximum use of that investment, and if the train operating companies (TOCs) think it will pay, they will make provision. The eagle-eyed amongst you will see that the ITT only mentions 2 trains per hour to London, whereas the capstone of electrification is at least 4 tph. I can't see any company offering 2 tph from Temple Meads to Paddington being taken seriously, even if that's all the ITT specifies.

One thing that really astonished me from reading the ITT (I am a civil servant, and would never include the initial of a preposition in an abbreviation, at least not in capital case) is that it seems that all those letters by ordinary members of the public to the DfT made a difference, as did the campaign website. The point is that we should now begin a lobby of the TOCs to tell them what we want, what would work, and why. We have the Severn Beach Line to show how things can be done, confounding the nay-sayers of Alistair Darling's period.

In re which, we owe a debt of gratitude to those stalwarts of FOSBR, the Portishead Rail group, and other indefatigable crusaders who have done so much to keep this campaign alive, and whose patience is about to be rewarded. We should help by writing to the TOCs, and let them know that this is something important to more than a few. The Henbury Loop will be a very big ask, given the freight traffic that is forecast to come that way when the deep water terminal opens at Avonmouth, as Bertyboy so correctly pointed out, but no harm in trying.

Great that Lulsgate is getting busier and busier.
Just a shame that all the GA and Biz traffic that will inevitably get pushed out doesn't have another airfield in Bristol to go to........oh, if only someone would build another runway in Bristol! :D

Ah, Bertyboy! If only! When I was learning to fly at Filton, I usually called for engine start, then taxy, and was given both immediately on all but one or two occasions. Near the runway, I would do my power checks, then call "Ready for departure". If I wasn't given immediate departure or "via delta join runway 09" or similar, it was because something worth seeing was about to happen. Like an A380 being pushed back then taking off, or an arriving Spitfire or Harrier, or one of MK's 747s on short finals. My first instructor also taught at Bristol, where it is not unusual to sit, engine running, for half an hour or more, waiting for a gap in the traffic. If Filton was narrower and shorter, it might have survived, and I hope it still does. The possibility for business and maintenance is huge. What a waste.

Speaking of waste, Politburo member for transport Tim Kent says we should spend £3.6 million of the council's spare money on making every residential street a 20 mph zone, like this one:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Twenty2.jpg

with its floral covering.

The police have said they don't think they could enforce it. Is it a good way to spend scarce cash?

Will the bristol metro be branded like London Overground or merseyrail... stations and trians? If its not then won't the Bristol Metro just be throretical...just more trains and lines with no perceived cohesion. I can't get my head around what it will actually be. Whatever they do will be great and an improvment, but it won't have much of an impact if what we get is just more aged trains with First branding going around a network of ancient and battered stations with no ticket machines.

Will the bristol metro be branded like London Overground or merseyrail... stations and trians? If its not then won't the Bristol Metro just be throretical...just more trains and lines with no perceived cohesion. I can't get my head around what it will actually be. Whatever they do will be great and an improvment, but it won't have much of an impact if what we get is just more aged trains with First branding going around a network of ancient and battered stations with no ticket machines.

I've been wondering this myself. To be honest, I think it's a bit cheeky to be calling a half-hourly train service a "Metro" when it's clearly just commuter rail.

As things stand, I think it's all pretty much going to be up in the air until November, if we're lucky.



£3.6 million of the council's spare money on making every residential street a 20 mph zone, like this one:

You can't travel more than 20mph at the moment anyway due to all the parked cars. :tongue3:

I've been wondering this myself. To be honest, I think it's a bit cheeky to be calling a half-hourly train service a "Metro" when it's clearly just commuter rail.

I grew up in Newcastle and used the T&W Metro to go to school every day. It's a clearly defined network with its own signage/branding and rolling stock, and I'm sure the trains ran every 10 minutes during peak periods and every 15 or 20 mins off peak. This sounds like light-years away from Greater Bristol Metro. I can live with that if the intention is to eventually move to something like the T&W Metro, with its own Bristol Metro branding and improved frequency. The severn beach line is very useful if you're armed with a timetable, but metro networks only work if you can turn up at a station and know there will be a train along "soon"... not in half an hour. essentially it should be a service that you use on the hoof and not something you should need to "plan" to use. Also, the trains are an embarrassment... 3rd world buses on tracks. Are there any plans to get something more up to date running on these "metro" rails?

^^ Well, for a start, I don't think it will have anything like the frequencies of the T&W Metro initially. The problem is, it will be sharing track with other heavy rail services, so it will be more like a German S-Bahn.
No one knows if it will be separately branded yet (personally, I think it should be), but in terms of rolling stock, if they are going to electrify it (as I believe is the plan), there would be cascaded stock, probably from the SE.

^^ Well, for a start, I don't think it will have anything like the frequencies of the T&W Metro initially. The problem is, it will be sharing track with other heavy rail services, so it will be more like a German S-Bahn.
No one knows if it will be separately branded yet (personally, I think it should be), but in terms of rolling stock, if they are going to electrify it (as I believe is the plan), there would be cascaded stock, probably from the SE.

Entirely agree, Bertyboy. There will be cascaded stock, as more and more areas are electrified, and that will form the backbone of the whole thing.

I agree that a plan to have a half-hourly service at every station doesn't look ambitious, but it will be a great leap forward from the present, which is itself a vast improvement on 5 years ago. Portishead should be accessible by rail within a few years, and I think the plan will be to have half-hour Portishead to Severn Beach, half hourly to Temple Meads, and half hourly Severn Beach to Bath. There will be other services over parts of the route, especially Bath, Lawrence Hill Stapleton Road, Parson Street and Bemmy.

The clever bit will be to use these as the proof that we can sustain a 4 trains per hour on the whole Metro system. Also, meshing it with buses, and providing a good fare structure, will be crucial to the success. As things stand, the conductors on the peak SVB trains have no chance of getting a fare from everyone, and the buses are slowed greatly by tickets having to be bought from drivers. SVB weekly tickets are very cheap - £9.00 for a weekly ticket from SVB to BRI is fantastic value. A weekly bus pass for zones 1 and 2, is over double. It would be good to be able to get on the train at Severn Beach, prepaid, then get off at Clifton Down or Lawrence Hill, and finish the journey by bus. That's what a Metro needs to have.

It also needs to have a chance of expansion, as our Mancunian friends will tell you. The current plans by the Politburo to rip up the line from Ashton Vale to M Shed for the stupid £49 million BRT2 route look to be a complete waste of an opportunity, as well as a waste of £49 million.

I think this also has to be seen in the context of the new Enterprise Zone and all the jobs that are hopefully going to be created (or moved) there over the next 5-10 years. That's going to generate a huge amount of commuter traffic, and other traffic. Not all trains of course, but the numbers are large enough to make a real difference and should make things viable that aren't viable now. And once you have that baseline, you can build on that. I think there's a huge potential there once you get trains running every 20 minutes or so for most of the day. People will suddenly make trips they wouldn't even consider now because they can't be bothered and it's all too complicated.

And I'm sure there's a plan or at least an aspiration to have integrated ticketing for the Metro, BRT (or what's left of it by then) and busses. Fingers crossed.

I think this also has to be seen in the context of the new Enterprise Zone and all the jobs that are hopefully going to be created (or moved) there over the next 5-10 years. That's going to generate a huge amount of commuter traffic, and other traffic. Not all trains of course, but the numbers are large enough to make a real difference and should make things viable that aren't viable now. And once you have that baseline, you can build on that. I think there's a huge potential there once you get trains running every 20 minutes or so for most of the day. People will suddenly make trips they wouldn't even consider now because they can't be bothered and it's all too complicated.

And I'm sure there's a plan or at least an aspiration to have integrated ticketing for the Metro, BRT (or what's left of it by then) and busses. Fingers crossed.

Spot on, tpm. It's an indictment of councils and governments past that none of this has been done already. The blunderbuss approach to public transport hasn't worked very well. Spending £79 million on bus lanes and sticky-out bus stops is a case in point. The inbound bus lane on the A4 Bath Road is very worthwhile, and the buses, including the bendies from the park and ride are through in no time, and the A4 Portway is the same. The one through Fishponds caused outrage amongst the voters there. It helps the buses get stuck in Stapleton Road much more quickly than before. The sticky-out bus stops there actually slow the buses down, as well as everyone else. In Malago Road, bus drivers actively avoid the bus lane, as there is never so much traffic that it helps them to wait for the traffic lights to change.

BRT from the Northern fringe to Bristol will be very useful. There are lots of wide roads for it to go down, and barring the M32 stretch, much of the infrastructure is already there. The Hengrove route looks less beneficial, and may do no more to help than improvements to Hartcliffe Way and Parson Street would achieve. Will it really be quicker to get from the Wills roundabout to the centre via Ashton Vale than it is now? It will be a massive building programme, and will change the character of a number of residential streets in a very bad way. I'm not sure that everyone who will be affected realises it yet, and it may be set for a rough ride. And the less said about the stupid £49 million BRT2 route, the better.

The enterprise zone is coming for sure. As you say, it may relocate jobs, rather than create them, as happened in Temple Quarter. The area around Nelson Street shows how slapdash building and poor transport doesn't help, and companies will always be prepared to migrate to offices etc near a station. But at least investors and planners can assume the Greater Bristol Metro when making decisions. Network Rail have the funding available for four-tracking the line to Filton Bank, and signs of work on that will be a pointer to progress. Similarly, work on the Portishead line will give us some idea of timescale. The next step there, prior to GRIP 4, will be removal of vegetation along the whole 3-mile missing link, so that full engineering drawings can be prepared. That can only be done outside of nesting seasons, so unless it is started this winter, nothing much will happen until October 2013. I can find no clues in the WEP website. Any insider info anywhere?

Few drivers using £1.3m Stoke Gifford car park

An average of just 10 motorists a day are using a £1.3m car park built near Bristol, a council has admitted.

The facility, intended as a park-and-ride, opened in June 2011 but will not get a bus service until 2015.

South Gloucestershire Council said it was used by only 139 motorists in its first three months and raised £13,899.74 in revenue last year.

The council said it wanted to make local firms more aware of the Stoke Gifford car park, which has 200 spaces.

The new rapid transit bus route, scheduled to come into operation in 2015, is planned to pass the park-and-ride facility.

Council 'look stupid'
The nearest public transport is Bristol Parkway railway station, which is about five minutes walk away.

The council said that from September staff at the station would direct all overflow traffic to the car park while work was done to expand its own parking facilities.

"It's anticipated up to 400 cars will need to be redirected during the works," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-19368355

:|

What exactly are they planning with the carpark at Parkway? Adding another deck?

:|

What exactly are they planning with the carpark at Parkway? Adding another deck?

Yes, possibly two - I believe there will be a straight road between the current two-deck carpark and the new one, instead of having to drive in a loop around the back of it as now.
Of course, all this will make the SGC car park even more pointless! A Brian Allinson brainchild, I think.

Guess its this;
Bristol Parkway multi-storey car park – First Great Western
The project will deliver a new three-storey car park in the existing north car park at Bristol Parkway station which will provide an additional 710 bays. The car park will be integrated into the existing single deck car park providing a single structure. The current drop-off points and taxi rank will be relocated to provide an integrated transport hub, including cycle parking and a bus interchange.
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/Press-Releases/THIRD-TIME-LUCKY-AS-FINAL-ROUND-OF-BIDS-FOR-100M-STATION-IMPROVEMENT-FUND-OPENS-19b7/SearchCategoryID-2.aspx

http://www.stokegiffordjournal.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/bristol-parkway-new-multi-storey-car-park.jpg

Just a little update on the 'managed motorway' scheme which will frame Bristol's northern and western flanks on the m4/m5...

Nearly all the gantries are up now, and most ground works are complete by the look of it. Think we must be close to a staggered re working of the tarmac and layout of the lanes, so am expecting section closures and contra-flows to be appearing in the coming months.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa272/Berbaking/2012-09-05124403.jpg

This is looking extremely positive!! Also, if anyone is on LinkedIn you can comment directly on Jon Rogers profile by following this link.

http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?view=&gid=1842204&type=news&item=5647636877730136124&goback=%2Eamf_1842204_61115199&trk=NUS_DISC_N-nd_mr


http://www.businesswest.co.uk/news/2012/07/09/100-million-bristol-metro-train-network-by-2016?goback=%2Eamf_1842204_61115199%2Egde_1842204_news_5647636877730136124

£100 million Bristol Metro train network by 2016

THE £100-million Bristol Metro train network which will bring massive improvements to local railways is to go ahead with the first services running by 2016.
It comes as a result of the City Deal agreed between local council and the Government which was announced yesterday by Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. It will mean the line to Portishead being re-opened and trains running to the town again within four years. The Henbury line will also re-open in 2018 as part of the plans. The list of new and re-opened stations include:
• Ashton Gate
• � Horfield
• � Ashley Hill
• � Saltford
• � and Henbury
They will form part of a local rail network that supporters hope will see trains running every half an hour.

The dramatic improvements are part of the £1 billion deal, which the Post revealed yesterday, and which was confirmed by treasury minister Danny Alexander on a visit to Bristol.

The City Deal has been agreed between Westminster and councils in Bristol and the surrounding area which promises to revolutionise the way the area is run.
The plans also include the re-opening of the so-called Henbury Loop in north Bristol.

The fine details of the deal, which will see money raised in parts of the city through business rates kept in Bristol, were still being worked on as late as Wednesday night.

Mr Alexander claimed the deal represents a revolution in the way the city is run and financed and will see power shifted back from Westminster to the West Country.

The minister said: "Local leaders and strong leadership are essential to the future prosperity of Britain's cities. These new powers will allow Bristol and the surrounding area to decide its own priorities for local public transport and flexibility on skills training – benefiting both employers and young people.
"By allowing Bristol to keep the business rates growth in its Enterprise Areas, this deal will support up to £1 billion of investment locally.
"This unique deal will hugely benefit ordinary people and businesses in Bristol. It also marks an important step in Government's commitment to decentralise power and re-balance local economies."

The Enterprise Zone set up around Temple Meads station is set to be at the centre of economic growth for the city. All the money raised in the area in business rates will be kept in the city to fund major public projects and improvements to the road network in the city centre.

Talks are taking place to bring the BBC to the Enterprise Zone and to build a 12,000-seat indoor arena on vacant land close to the station.
Around £500 million would be raised but the four local authorities in the region have been given permission to raise loans against the expected revenue with immediate effect.

Mr Alexander believes the City Deal and Bristol's decision to opt for an elected mayor will give it a major advantage over other regional rivals. He said: "What we are doing is giving Bristol the chance to shape its own destiny, and an elected mayor will certainly help in shaping that process. This is a deal and of course we expect something in return in terms of jobs and economic growth but what we are doing is putting the building blocks in place for the future of Bristol and the region."

The deal has seen Bristol council working alongside North Somer- set, South Gloucester- shire and Bath and North East Somerset councils. There are also plans to create a new public body or company to take control of transport across the Bristol region.

The Local Enterprise Partnership, the organisation which replaced the South West Regional Development Agency, has played a key role in the negotiations.
Colin Skellet, the chairman of the organisation, said: "I think this is great for Bristol and the surrounding area and has come after a lot of negotiations. This is the first time the benefits of economic growth will be ploughed straight back into the city rather than being redistributed elsewhere."

He added: "This announcement is a massive vote of confidence from Government in our region's businesses to drive growth and create jobs. It is also an excellent example of what can be achieved by the four local authorities and business working together so effectively. This is a deal for hi-tech growth that builds on the West of England's strengths in engineering, the digital and creative sectors. It gives us unprecedented input into the skills training of our young people to ensure we're meeting the future needs of businesses across the city and region."

Bristol City Council leader Simon Cook said: "The package represents a historic devolution of powers from Whitehall that we have long argued for. It is very good news that business rates will be back in local hands and that we will be able to borrow against those revenues to invest in development. For the first time we'll have the ability to drive our own economic strategy and make the much-needed investment in our infrastructure, in particular in our rail system which is in urgent need of more capacity."

Business leaders also welcomed the announcement. Michael Bothamley, president of Bristol Chamber of Commerce, said: "This is fantastic news, it provides a huge boost for business and our wider community and will help stimulate investor confidence in this area. Investment on this scale into our local rail infrastructure, to boost skills and help create the space for new jobs, are things business has been asking for and are what this deal is all about. It's proof that government is backing what we have all been saying – that this city region will deliver substantial new private sector job growth.

"Very significantly, it provides the financial incentive for our local authorities to further support economic growth and job creation. It's also another success for close partnership working between business and local government through our Local Enterprise Partnership."
Bristol is one of eight cities across the UK to have agreed a deal with the Government. The city's MPs were broadly supportive although Labour's Kerry McCarthy declined to make a comment.

Charlotte Leslie, Conservative MP for Bristol North West, said the announcement was a "game-changer" for the city. She said: "This is obviously fantastic news. The Government has recognised just how central proper transport infrastructure is to Bristol. It really has been lacking in relation to other cities."
City leaders will need to work with neighbouring local authorities to manage the investment, which ministers said would boost the economy by up to £1 billion.
Kingswood Tory MP Chris Skidmore said: "This is a milestone moment for Bristol and the surrounding region. Never has so much power or funds been given back from Whitehall to the local community.

"This deal is about trusting local businesses and organisations who know how the region should be run best, giving them freedom to decide our city's destiny rather than the old-fashioned top-down 'We know best' approach of the state. This is an exciting time for Bristol."
Bristol West Lib Dem MP Stephen Williams added: "This deal will give local leaders the power and money to grow the Greater Bristol economy and transform our transport. I'm pleased to have helped in the negotiations."

The fine pine print of the package includes:
• A new growth incentive and the economic investment fund, which will allow West of England to keep 100 per cent of growth in business rates over 25 years to invest in projects, allowing authorities to deliver an investment programme worth £1 billion over 30 years.
• Ten years of major funding allocation for the Greater Bristol Metro; flexible delivery for the Bus Rapid Transit Network which will allow savings to be recycled locally; and new powers over rail planning and delivery.
• A Public Property Board will manage up to £1 billion of city council assets and an estimated 180 land and property assets to unlock more land for economic growth or housing and to lever in additional investment.
• A city growth hub with up to £2.25 million of government funding which will provide additional support to inward investors. This will be based in the Temple Quarter Enterprise Zone and will work closely with UK Trade and Investment.
• The business community and local enterprise partnership will have more influence in skills provision in the city region, in particular the £114 million Skills Funding Agency funding for Further Education colleges for post-16 provision, to help capture employer demand.

This is looking extremely positive!!

Positive? I'll say!! Thanks for posting this Rupert - this has cast in reinforced concrete the biggest leap forward in transport in Bristol since 1957, when the wheel was introduced to the city. The Henbury news came as a surprise to me (Bertyboy too, I'll wager) because of the freight traffic. The real beauty of all this is that it can be done mainly by National Rail and its subcontractors, leaving the local authorities to argue about the colour of the shelters at the stations, rather than falling out over important matters, spending time and money on arguing amongst themselves, and making a dog's breakfast out of a gourmet dinner. Our new mayor will be busy cutting ribbons and unveiling plaques., but will still have much to do with this scheme. He or she will be able to lobby for more frequent services than half-hourly, once demand can be demonstrated. In the case of the Portishead line, that should happen by the second week of operating. Then there is also the matter of integrating it all with the buses (and ferries?), to give a cross-modal smart ticket.

On the negative side, it makes BRT look even less value for money. The stupid £49 million BRT2 route will be a white elephant if the nice people of Portishead don't need to use the Park and Ride any more. There are far better options for the link from Cribbs Causeway too, once Filton Airfield closes and the Henbury Loop reopens. So, Mr New Mayor, what will you do?

This is getting interesting for many reasons.

I got rather overexcited earlier and posted stuff twice, sorry. I will edit it later today, It was such a long article it didn't all fit in and i tried to copy and paste though notepad to get rid of the strange coding and have been a bit silly.

I will edit it later today as on a train to London right now which I connected via Clifton to temple Meads early this morning, i love this metro expansion but it does need electronic ticketing and integrated with buses and ferries as pointed out by BoyamIjealous. 25 per cent of people didn't pay this morning which is lost revenue for expansion.

100 per cent behind the metro, for me it's chew chew all the way!!

I presume this will be all electric?

I presume this will be all electric?

:rofl:

Not in this country...

I presume this will be all electric?

That would make sound sense, from a long-term economic, efficiency, and environmental standpoint. 25Kv to Portishead and Portbury Dock, down the SVB and back through Henbury would mean many fewer diesel freight trains, and a Metro truly worthy of the sobriquet "Sustainable".

So no, then.

That would make sound sense, from a long-term economic, efficiency, and environmental standpoint. 25Kv to Portishead and Portbury Dock, down the SVB and back through Henbury would mean many fewer diesel freight trains, and a Metro truly worthy of the sobriquet "Sustainable".

So no, then.

Well, everything from Yate down to BTM will be electrified anyway, it makes sense that whilst the OHLE train is down here, it does the extra little bits to Portishead and Severn Beach. A little extra time and cost now will save a fortune in the long run.
Turn-up-and-go metro systems don't really work with diesel. That's why the SPT, T&W, Merseyrail metros are electric.

Well, everything from Yate down to BTM will be electrified anyway, it makes sense that whilst the OHLE train is down here, it does the extra little bits to Portishead and Severn Beach. A little extra time and cost now will save a fortune in the long run.
Turn-up-and-go metro systems don't really work with diesel. That's why the SPT, T&W, Merseyrail metros are electric.

So right, Bertyboy my friend. I worry that adding bits on to the electrification train's schedule will be a bit like adding little jobs that need doing by the plumber you have finally managed to nail down "while you're here". Before you know where you are, the bill has grown like Topsy, and his next customer is on the blower every five minutes wondering where he is.

From Parson Street Junction to the last Portishead Station is 9 miles 37 chains, if wikipedia is, for once, accurate. From Narroways to Severn Beach is 11m 51ch, and the Henbury loop is 5m 64ch to the South Wales main line. That gives a total of around 27 miles, or 43km by my abacus. The electrification train can do 1.6km per 8 hour possession, giving an additional 27 days work. By no means insignificant in the context of a nationwide project.

So no, then. At least not until the train has done the rounds and done all the original work. By then, there'll be a queue 1.6km long of people wanting their branch lines done.

The electrification train can do 1.6km per 8 hour possession, giving an additional 27 days work. By no means insignificant in the context of a nationwide project.

Out of curiosity: would it be possible to simply shut those branch lines completely for a few days and let the train work around the clock ? Or only allow a few small windows during the day? Not so easy on a main line, but perhaps it's doable on a branch (that is also assuming that there's enough people to actually do multiple shifts per day of course) ?

Out of curiosity: would it be possible to simply shut those branch lines completely for a few days and let the train work around the clock ? Or only allow a few small windows during the day? Not so easy on a main line, but perhaps it's doable on a branch (that is also assuming that there's enough people to actually do multiple shifts per day of course) ?

The train doesn't exist yet, though we know it will be 23 carriages long, and will cost £35 million see here (http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/projects-infrastructure/single-view/view/amey-awarded-great-western-electrification-contract.html). I think you've spotted the limiting factor, which will be the crew. There's not likely to be much spare capacity, and I wonder if the whole project will have planned breaks for crew holidays.

So right, Bertyboy my friend. I worry that adding bits on to the electrification train's schedule will be a bit like adding little jobs that need doing by the plumber you have finally managed to nail down "while you're here". Before you know where you are, the bill has grown like Topsy, and his next customer is on the blower every five minutes wondering where he is.

From Parson Street Junction to the last Portishead Station is 9 miles 37 chains, if wikipedia is, for once, accurate. From Narroways to Severn Beach is 11m 51ch, and the Henbury loop is 5m 64ch to the South Wales main line. That gives a total of around 27 miles, or 43km by my abacus. The electrification train can do 1.6km per 8 hour possession, giving an additional 27 days work. By no means insignificant in the context of a nationwide project.

So no, then. At least not until the train has done the rounds and done all the original work. By then, there'll be a queue 1.6km long of people wanting their branch lines done.

Problem is, without electrification, on a metro system with lots of short hops, you aren't going to get an efficient service at all, which in my mind would make the Bristol Metro pointless. I'd like to see the DfT Green Book analysis for the GB Metro both with and without electrification. In fact, I haven't seen *anything* yet that breaks down how the £100m figure was arrived at - how much of that was for new lines work, station upgrades, rolling stock, signalling, electrification etc.? I imagine the new bridge at Stapleton Rd will take up a fair chunk, as will widening the cutting in the Henbury loop (to get any decent service) and quadding up Filton Bank.
I'm already starting to get worried that, like BRT2, we're going to get a half-arsed version of a once good idea, but that it will be forever compromised because people will say "Ah, but it's better than nothing". Well, no - spending a shed-load of money on something that few people will use is NOT better than nothing. Nothing is much better if it encourages a focussed re-evaluation.

Problem is, without electrification, on a metro system with lots of short hops, you aren't going to get an efficient service at all, which in my mind would make the Bristol Metro pointless. I'd like to see the DfT Green Book analysis for the GB Metro both with and without electrification. In fact, I haven't seen *anything* yet that breaks down how the £100m figure was arrived at - how much of that was for new lines work, station upgrades, rolling stock, signalling, electrification etc.? I imagine the new bridge at Stapleton Rd will take up a fair chunk, as will widening the cutting in the Henbury loop (to get any decent service) and quadding up Filton Bank.
I'm already starting to get worried that, like BRT2, we're going to get a half-arsed version of a once good idea, but that it will be forever compromised because people will say "Ah, but it's better than nothing". Well, no - spending a shed-load of money on something that few people will use is NOT better than nothing. Nothing is much better if it encourages a focussed re-evaluation.

Half-arsed? You'll be lucky to get half-buttocked with BRT2. I agree with you all day long, Bertyboy. I have said here and in other places that a better idea than BRT2 is to do nothing at all. At least my reading of the mayoral candidates' output so far has identified one who thinks it's a good idea, so he needn't ask me to vote for him.

As for cost, then if connecting all the dots, four-tracking Filton Bank, provision for Saltford, new stations, and reopening Portishead and running metro services on it is going to cost £100 million, then the BRT scheme as a whole, at £200 million, is a terrible price to pay for a second third fourth-rate substitute for a proper transport scheme. In reality, the numbers are a bit meaningless, because bits are coming out of different jam jars, and some parts would need doing just to stand still. HLOS funds will cover four-tracking Filton Bank - expect that to cost upwards of £60 million. Sounds a lot until you think what is needed in detail. Signalling is scheduled for replacement around 2015 in our area, and will hopefully be fitted with the Metro in mind. Portishead reopening was pencilled in at £36 million in the GRIP3 report - probably nearer £50m now. The platform at the Avonmouth Park and Ride is costing £450,000, the other new stations could be up to a million each. Oh yes - nearly forgot the trains to run on the network, silly me. We could do with making economies - how about scrapping the stupid £49 million BRT2 scheme?

I agree entirely on electrifying it. Heading for the Paralympics on Thursday, I got a Jubilee line train from Wembley Park. Say what you like about the Tube, but they don't half zip along, and hammer into the stations. The thought of something diesel working as well just isn't there. Whether there are secret plans to put the wires up as soon as the lines open, I don't know, but it would make sense. 750V DC would be enough, although then you would need dual voltage trains, and this is complicated enough already. Another poser for our new mayor?

Half-arsed? You'll be lucky to get half-buttocked with BRT2. I agree with you all day long, Bertyboy. I have said here and in other places that a better idea than BRT2 is to do nothing at all. At least my reading of the mayoral candidates' output so far has identified one who thinks it's a good idea, so he needn't ask me to vote for him.

As for cost, then if connecting all the dots, four-tracking Filton Bank, provision for Saltford, new stations, and reopening Portishead and running metro services on it is going to cost £100 million, then the BRT scheme as a whole, at £200 million, is a terrible price to pay for a second third fourth-rate substitute for a proper transport scheme. In reality, the numbers are a bit meaningless, because bits are coming out of different jam jars, and some parts would need doing just to stand still. HLOS funds will cover four-tracking Filton Bank - expect that to cost upwards of £60 million. Sounds a lot until you think what is needed in detail. Signalling is scheduled for replacement around 2015 in our area, and will hopefully be fitted with the Metro in mind. Portishead reopening was pencilled in at £36 million in the GRIP3 report - probably nearer £50m now. The platform at the Avonmouth Park and Ride is costing £450,000, the other new stations could be up to a million each. Oh yes - nearly forgot the trains to run on the network, silly me. We could do with making economies - how about scrapping the stupid £49 million BRT2 scheme?

I agree entirely on electrifying it. Heading for the Paralympics on Thursday, I got a Jubilee line train from Wembley Park. Say what you like, but they don't half zip along, and hammer into the stations. The thought of something diesel working as well just isn't there. Whether there are secret plans to put the wires up as soon as the lines open, I don't know, but it would make sense. 750V DC would be enough, although then you would need dual voltage trains, and this is complicated enough already. Another poser for our new mayor?

Why bother with 750V? I'm assuming the lines will be shared with Great Western routes for some parts, so I'm assuming bog-standard 25kV AC? Whatever the Metro is, it's not a light-rail. As I've said previously, it just needs to be modelled on S-Bahn - heavy-rail, using standard stock but on reasonably short headways. We can even do what they do in France now and see if other cities want to build similar S-Bahn systems and combine procurement to get benefit-of-scale savings.
Basically, we're talking about what cities all over Europe have successfully operated for decades at reasonable cost.

Why bother with 750V?

That idea, which is a cheapo option, was suggested early in the coalition for lightly-used branch lines, currently running diesel. I would find the link for you, but life's too short. I would see it only as a Trojan horse to get the full 25KV in. It would be "Quality with a capitl K", though, so you're right.

On the subject of cheapo options, GBBN have spent £79 million on bus lanes etc. Does anyone know if this extravagance has prompted First or Wessex to introduce additional services on the Showcase routes?

The Transport for Greater Bristol Alliance (TfGBA) are holding a sort of hustings for all Bristol Mayoral candidates this week. I'll be going along to hear what they all have to say on transport....

Details: 11th September, 7pm-9pm, at the Broadmead Baptist Church on Union Street in the city centre.

The Transport for Greater Bristol Alliance (TfGBA) are holding a sort of hustings for all Bristol Mayoral candidates this week. I'll be going along to hear what they all have to say on transport....

Details: 11th September, 7pm-9pm, at the Broadmead Baptist Church on Union Street in the city centre.

Might see you there, or might watch the footie. Tough call. Do you think they've scheduled it for the evening of an international game to keep the numbers down? Or to try keep it all women?

Edit:

I went to the hustings meeting and listened intently. The 6 candidates and one proxy present each had a 2-minute spot in which to introduce themselves and say "integrated" several times, using many words to say very little. However, as the questions were put, some chose to make their views on transport much clearer, enabling me to cross off three that I will not vote for now, under any circumstances other than a complete u-turn by them (or me, for that matter, but not both).

Three of the candidates, as well as having policies of their own, had done their homework on other peoples' ideas, and were well informed. One may have been, I'm not quiite sure. There will be notes of the meeting, although I've forgotten where I saw the link to ask for them.

Most seemed to realise that transport is the key thing to improving the city. Rubbish transport, like we have now, will hold everything back. Two (or was it three?) had had charge of transport in the city, and spoke movingly about ideas they had had, but had failed to bring to fruition.

An ITA was a popular proposal. Some were for withdrawing from WEP as a matter of urgency, one was for giving it one last chance, then divorcing, one didn't make sense when answering the question, so I'm not sure what he wanted. The problem is Bristol having one vote, equal in weight to the three other authorities, but with the lion's share of the congestion. I suppose the other three still recall the Bristocentric nature of Avon County Council, and don't want forgetting again, but the flow to work in the morning is towards Bristol.

BRT did not get the "smooth ride" promised in the brochures. One candidate, immediately deleted from my list of possibles, was in favour. Three answered yes, but not in current form, one was against BRT2, for BRT1, and jury out on BRT3 (my provisional view, but the candidate then blew it on other matters), one nailed colours firmly to the mast by saying it was designed to chase the funding, not to solve traffic problems, and he would ask to spend the money on something more rail-based. That one got the first round of applause of the evening. As I have yet to meet anyone who thinks BRT, and BRT2 in particular, is a good idea, this didn't surprise me.

There was consensus on the Greater Bristol Metro being a game-changer, and very desirable, but I was surprised to hear some candidates speak as though it is not a done deal. I hope they are wrong. There was also unanimity in the matter of a smart payment system, with excuses from the one candidate who had the chance to implement it, but failed. He blamed First Bus, about whom many nasty things were said by all, for saying "Yes!" and doing "No!"

I got the impression that I was the only person there who was not a member of a pressure group or a political party, and I was sorry that there were not a thousand grim faces to concentrate the candidates' minds. I am prepared to cast my vote based purely on transport policy, simply because the wrong decisions now could ruin this city forever, whereas cocking up anything else can be sorted out in 2016 by throwing the incumbent out, and trying again. Transport is too important and too urgent for that. We've been promised the earth, and given the mud, and I don't care who, how, or why, but I do care when.

Having been thus entertained, I went home to watch the England football match. Next time I am in need of fun, I might try walking backwards around St James Barton, with a nail through my shoe.

I will not put names to the details above, nor recommend, nor divulge my own intentions. This is partly to avoid politicisation of the forum, partly because I am not sure of the finer detail of the meeting, and partly because I have yet to make up my own mind, except to discount three possibles. It is easy to say that the three major political parties have taken it in turns to bicker with the others, whilst at best doing nothing positive, and at worst making things worse. The indies, though, have the very real advantage of never having been anywhere near power. Think Boris, though. He is a Conservative, but says some very unconservative things, and does some outlandish ones too. He is as independent as the next man, and seems popular in London. H'Angus the Monkey, aka Stuart Drummond, stood as a joke in Hartlepool, and was elected, as a joke. Whilst he did not make Hartlepool a Shangri-La, something that could even be close to God's limits of ability, he was re-elected. I recall La Cohabitation in France in the 1980s and 90s, where a leftist president and rightist government or vice versa resulted in not much being done. Maybe this is the time to decide on issues and intent rather than affiliation? These are things to discuss over beer in pubs, not Skyscrapercity.

Bertyboy, it was a major positive to be able to say hello in person. We must do it again, maybe somewhere more licensed next time. Long live Filton Airfield!! :banana:

Might see you there, or might watch the footie. Tough call. Do you think they've scheduled it for the evening of an international game to keep the numbers down? Or to try keep it all women?

Well, I'm glad you did make it down, and it was a pleasure to meet you!
I'm not sure I'm much the wiser though - everyone promising the moon on a stick.

Well, I'm glad you did make it down, and it was a pleasure to meet you!
I'm not sure I'm much the wiser though - everyone promising the moon on a stick.

Bertyboy,

You posted your concise account whilst I was doing my over-wordy edit. This is why it looks like you answered before I asked, or vice versa. Tell me now, did one of the candidates appear to you to have sought Dutch Courage prior to the meeting? No names, no pack drill. What goes in Broadmead Baptist Church , stays in Broadmead Baptist Church. Ask Prince Harry.

Bertyboy,

You posted your concise account whilst I was doing my over-wordy edit. This is why it looks like you answered before I asked, or vice versa. Tell me now, did one of the candidates appear to you to have sought Dutch Courage prior to the meeting? No names, no pack drill. What goes in Broadmead Baptist Church , stays in Broadmead Baptist Church. Ask Prince Harry.

Lol. He did seem that way! :lol: Made for some interesting answers.

I think if you count me coming from Save Filton Airfield, you might be right about being the only one present not to come from a pressure group or party! A rather one-sided audience, which I felt meant that the questions allowed for "I'm with you" answers, and didn't probe the details of delivery. I'd rather it were more open-ended. For example, to ask the question about BRT2 and then for someone to say "Can we make it a one-word answer" was a bit unfair - it didn't allow candidates to say what it should be instead. As you know, I was there to support the candidate who is running on "Save Filton Airfied" but I'm not sure he came across all that well, not because he didn't say anything wrong but because he didn't say enough (I know he's got plenty good ideas, but he didn't project them well enough.....maybe he's saving them for the public hustings?!). Throughout the whole evening, I felt there was a lot of rhetoric but a lack of solid ideas. The one idea about "flashing amber" lights at night seems sensible, but isn't a decision for the Bristol mayor - that kind of approval needs to come from the DfT and they've studied (and rejected) it before.

Here's Bristol 24/7's take on it: "Bristol mayor: Candidates line up against BRT plans" (http://www.bristol247.com/2012/09/12/bristol-mayor-candidates-line-up-against-brt-plans-45608/).

And the Bristol Post:
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Doubts-cast-bendy-bus-plan-mayoral-hopefuls/story-16880241-detail/story.html

What is people's take on Gary Hopkins's comment in the EP comment section?


There would be 4 results of pulling out of BRT.

1 Cooperation with neighbouring councils would be put back 30 yrs.

2 A significant piece of the integrated transport jig saw would be removed.(train tracks do not go everywhere)

3 The £100M rail metro system including the Portishead line and the new stations would collapse because of lack of trust.

4 Business (west) has supported these schemes and acknowledged that business must and will pay its share .Cutting the greatest anti business burden (poor quality transport links) in an otherwise great region for business, will lose confidence and cost jobs not only in the long term but the 1,000 that go with the BRT construction.

Be absolutely clear that those who are saying we could use the money on something else are either in cloud cuckoo land or seek to decieve you.


Not meaning to politicise this thread, but I am curious how people think this would all play out.

Is the idea that a Bristol mayor would have such a strong mandate that the government couldn't possibly just take away the BRT money and spend it elsewhere if the elected mayor decides to do away with the scheme after having campaigned on that promise?

More importantly, what about the claim that the Bristol Metro scheme would collapse because of lack of trust? Not sure if I buy this one, since delivery of the Bristol Metro scheme will not actually be up to the council, but probably be up to Network Rail and rail operators for the most part, wouldn't it?

It's a difficult one. The former Avon authorities had a fairly awful record on co-operation on transport until fairly recently. If a Bristol mayor tries to unilaterally alter the BRT schemes, then the fragile trust between the councils might collapse. Without an ITA or an equivalent in place, cross border schemes will grind to halt.

The basics of the metro scheme will probably happen anyway, but long term progress needs co-operation, be it informal or within an ITA type structure.

Which is why the ITA needs to be autonomous of the councils. A situation that relies on fragile trust between councils is not going to produce bold, holistic decisions.

What is people's take on Gary Hopkins's comment in the EP comment section?

Not meaning to politicise this thread, but I am curious how people think this would all play out.


Blatant political blackmail of the dirtiest type in my book. He is trying to tell the incoming mayor that he didn't want that if he interferes with his party's crap pet project, transport in the area will be ruined. "We know best". A bit rich IMHO, coming from someone who has worked hard to achieve absolutely nothing positive, and who wants to wreck the ambience of the harbourside with his stupid £49 million BRT2 scheme. The man's a fool, and a dangerous one at that. If anything is going to ruin plans, it will be because the government find out just how hostile a reception this crackpot scheme is receiving from Cllr Hopkins' adoring citizens. Banging on about "trust" is pure hypocrisy, coming from someone who is trying to bulldoze through a scheme based on bad analysis of wrong figures obtained by a flawed study. We should tell him to bugger off, and take his stupid £49 million BRT2 scheme with him.

Having gotten that off my chest, and having demonstrated why I would make a rubbish mayor, I decided it was time for a few reference pictures from places that may be altered greatly in the next few years. I intend to add more pictures as I travel around the area, so that as and when things get built, we will be able to see the difference by reference to "Before and After" views. It also occured to me that others not living in Bristol may have an interest in these projects. What better place to begin than Stapleton Road station, soon to be four-tracked, unless Hopkins throws a wobbly.

A general view from the footbridge, looking north. A community garden centre currenly occupies the trackbed along which mighty electric trains should soon thunder:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Above.jpg

This bridge is apparently not fit for purpose:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Bridge.jpg

A sweet garden with attitude! I hope it finds a new home:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Garden.jpg

Unexpected indeed, finding an ingredient for my favourite beverage growing on a station!

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Mmmmbeer.jpg

Getting ready for four-tracking?

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Sale.jpg

The frame now standing on Platform 4:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Platform4.jpg

That knackered bridge again:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Oldbridge.jpg

Towards Bristol Temple Meads:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/TowardsBristol.jpg

It is difficult to avoid sounding political, and I want it to be understood that I don't necessarily think Cllr Hopkins and his political party are a bunch of amateurish tossers who couldn't run a bath, let alone a city. They may for all I know have a good idea about something. The criticism is levelled purely at the BRT idea, and especially the stupid £49 million BRT2 route.

^^ Nice shots of Stapleton Road. I've never been up there.
I wonder if they'll make the island platform narrower so that they can nudge the new bridge up against the one currently in use?

^^ Nice shots of Stapleton Road. I've never been up there.
I wonder if they'll make the island platform narrower so that they can nudge the new bridge up against the one currently in use?

Don't know, Bertyboy. There is a lot of bridge involved, so the answer may be "No". It's down to Network Rail, I suppose, who will presumably do it the cheapest way possible.

I pass Stapleton Road most days, and go through by train from time to time, but it was the first time I had explored, so to speak. With that muriel (which I meant to photograph and forgot!) and that garden centre, it has the feeling of being somewhere that the locals take great pride in. St Marks Road, with its fabulous Asian food shops and a pub I have been recommended to try, could become a destination. I have also, in another place, advocated its use as an interchange once the Metro is up and running, to take some of the pressure off Temple Meads. If you were doing Clifton to Salisbury, say, why go into BRI to change, with the attendant stairs crowds etc, when you can swap at SRD and probably stay on the same platform? I have done it once, coming home from Taunton to Redland. Lawrence Hill should be used as a good place to swap to bus for the centre, rather than BRI. Simples!

Blatant political blackmail of the dirtiest type in my book. He is trying to tell the incoming mayor that he didn't want that if he interferes with his party's crap pet project, transport in the area will be ruined. "We know best". A bit rich IMHO, coming from someone who has worked hard to achieve absolutely nothing positive, and who wants to wreck the ambience of the harbourside with his stupid £49 million BRT2 scheme. The man's a fool, and a dangerous one at that. If anything is going to ruin plans, it will be because the government find out just how hostile a reception this crackpot scheme is receiving from Cllr Hopkins' adoring citizens. Banging on about "trust" is pure hypocrisy, coming from someone who is trying to bulldoze through a scheme based on bad analysis of wrong figures obtained by a flawed study. We should tell him to bugger off, and takes his stupid £49 million BRT2 scheme with him.

Having gotten that off my chest, and having demonstrated why I would make a rubbish mayor,

Well at least no-one would be in any doubt about your opinion! :)

The next West of England LEP meeting has an interesting rail update document.

http://www.westofenglandlep.co.uk/transport-and-infrastructure/joint-meetings-of-local-authority-partners/joint-transport-executive-committee/

20th Sept. meeting, item no. 5

Apparently no chance of metro electrification until after 2019. Interestingly there are plans to electrify the freight route Derby-Birmingham-Bristol, so presumably that means the Portishead branch and Henbury loop. That would leave the tantalising gaps of Severn Beach and W-S-M for complete electrification and the prospect of cascaded Class 319s from Thameslink.

Edit: Looking at the major projects updates, everyones' favourite bus scheme BRT2 has already slipped 7 months, giving a completion date of April 2016. If it continues to slip it may face completion around the time of the Portishead branch line, which in some respects makes it redundant. Over to you Mr (Ms) Mayor.

The next West of England LEP meeting has an interesting rail update document.

http://www.westofenglandlep.co.uk/transport-and-infrastructure/joint-meetings-of-local-authority-partners/joint-transport-executive-committee/

20th Sept. meeting, item no. 5

Apparently no chance of metro electrification until after 2019. Interestingly there are plans to electrify the freight route Derby-Birmingham-Bristol, so presumably that means the Portishead branch and Henbury loop. That would leave the tantalising gaps of Severn Beach and W-S-M for complete electrification and the prospect of cascaded Class 319s from Thameslink.

Edit: Looking at the major projects updates, everyones' favourite bus scheme BRT2 has already slipped 7 months, giving a completion date of April 2016. If it continues to slip it may face completion around the time of the Portishead branch line, which in some respects makes it redundant. Over to you Mr (Ms) Mayor.

Interesting indeed, geoffbradford. We haven't yet sorted out the franchises up for grabs this year, the electrification train is as yet unbuilt, but we are looking at further electrification in the next control period. This suggests that the electrification train will not be going home when it has finished the current round of work. I think it is also a signal to stop bothering DfT with requests for extensions to the work in the current CP.

In re BRT, this is excellent news! Hopefully, it will be further delayed, by about 100 years would be good. Any more delay, and I will not be able to call the AV route the stupid £49 million BRT2 route. I could soon be calling it the stupid £94 million BRT2 route instead. Similar happened in Cambridge. It would make perfect sense to hold fire until after the railway is open, then gauge the benefits again - a view put forward at the public inquiry. It could otherwise be a very expensive white heffalump.

Some news on the South Gloucestershire Core Strategy....
The Government Planning Inspector has released his interim report:
https://consultations.southglos.gov.uk/gf2.ti/f/251202/7552773.1/PDF/-/Interim%20statement.pdf

He has found the plan unsound, and is recommending SGC re-address a few things and consult again. With particular regards to Filton Airfield, his take seems to be simply that without its inclusion in the CS, SGC would have to extend other free-standing settlements (read: towns and villages), which I'd have thought is exactly what a progressive plan *should* do, rather than try to shoe-horn everything into a densely populated suburb.
Interestingly, he also thinks that the extension of the Mall @ Cribbs is unjustifiable given its impact on other retail centres.

I'll be on Radio Bristol at about 8:15am tomorrow to discuss.....

Some news on the South Gloucestershire Core Strategy....
The Government Planning Inspector has released his interim report:
https://consultations.southglos.gov.uk/gf2.ti/f/251202/7552773.1/PDF/-/Interim%20statement.pdf

He has found the plan unsound, and is recommending SGC re-address a few things and consult again. With particular regards to Filton Airfield, his take seems to be simply that without its inclusion in the CS, SGC would have to extend other free-standing settlements (read: towns and villages), which I'd have thought is exactly what a progressive plan *should* do, rather than try to shoe-horn everything into a densely populated suburb.
Interestingly, he also thinks that the extension of the Mall @ Cribbs is unjustifiable given its impact on other retail centres.

I'll be on Radio Bristol at about 8:15am tomorrow to discuss.....

Damn! missed it! Didn't see your post until 9am, and I'm in Devon anyway. Was this part of a wider discussion?

Probably be on that listen again feature that you access through the Radio Bristol part of the BBC Bristol web page.

Edit: Having taken my own advice (I was fast asleep at 8.15am), I listened and that was a very polished, reasoned, set of comments Berty. I've never had a high opinion of Cllr. Hockey (the failure of the Parkway-City Centre tram line still rankles) and that interview has done nothing to improve it. Seems to have no clear understanding of what the inspector said, which is a lot more negative than the South Glos. press release would have us believe and a "big picture" that stops at the Bristol-South Glos. border.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/p00xxbmt
2:06

Well said, Bertyboy! It struck me that Ali Vowles seemed to know more about the subject than the councillor woman. Leaving aside the arguments about transport, houses and shopping malls, I hope someone comes forward with a plan to rescue the airfield as an airfield. It ain't over till it's over, to quote Lenny Kravitz.

In other news, there is a very detailed article in Bristol 24/7 (http://www.bristol247.com/2012/09/14/is-bristol-confident-enough-to-say-no-to-brt-92058/) about the stupid £49 million BRT2 route, and BRT generally. Please feel free to tweet, like on Facebook, and add to any other forum you think appropriate.

Kind've a 'transport' issue - and another example of one of the other non-Bristol council (and Long Ashton in particular) screwing things up for the city?


Cycle path's lottery funding 'in jeopardy'
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Cycle-path-s-lottery-funding-jeopardy/story-16927652-detail/story.html

THE final part of a £1.2-million cycle path is in doubt after calls to send the design back to the drawing board.

Festival Way runs from Queen Square in Bristol to Nailsea.

It is being built using £600,000 of lottery funding, in a joint venture between Bristol City Council and neighbouring North Somerset.

But villagers in Long Ashton have objected to the design of an unfinished leg of the route.

Cycle campaigners say the money to pay for it will be lost if it is not completed by the end of the current financial year. They have launched a petition calling on North Somerset Council, which has the final say over the plans, to make a decision as soon as possible.

But the authority's deputy leader has inflamed tensions by accusing cyclists of "arrogance".

In a message posted to petition organiser Bill Roberts and seen by the Post, councillor Elfan Ap Rees said: "It would be really helpful if those cyclists actually used the cycleways elsewhere in the district that have been provided instead of arrogantly ignoring them by cycling on adjacent roads designed for traffic at speeds of 40/50/60 mph. Similarly, riding on pavements amidst pedestrians. Until they are better behaved I can understand why there is opposition to new cycletrack schemes.

"Neither am I influenced by a petition signed by people who do not live in the vicinity of Long Ashton, know little of the true circumstances and have only one sheeplike point of view.

"North Somerset Council has to consider all road users and the decision will be made with that in mind, not to just satisfy a cycling lobby."

Cycle charity Sustrans won £50 million of National Lottery money in 2007 to fund a national network of cycle and pedestrian routes.

The Nailsea to Bristol path is one of them, but the final section from Cambridge Batch, between Long Ashton and Flax Bourton, along a section of Weston Road to Long Ashton itself, is the subject of safety concerns.

Long Ashton parish councillors last week made their objections to the current design for a third time because of the proximity of cyclists and pedestrians in the planned cycleway.

Bob Cook, a North Somerset councillor for the village, said: "We are holding out for the best possible outcome."

John Usher, Sustrans area manager, said funding for the scheme expires in March 2013 and the work needs to be completed before the end of this year to apply for the money.

He said: "There's a lot at stake. The track is incredibly important for those who are not confident enough to take up cycling next to the cars on a main road."

Mr Ap Rees was unavailable for comment when contacted by the Post.

Apologies for those uninterested in Filton Airfield (but it's in Bristol and comes under Transport!)........
We got hold of the 2011 accounts for the Airfield, which have just been published. Despite BAES claiming that last year's profits were a "one-off", and they would return to being an unviable operation, it seems they've turned in another £517,000 profit again! It's like they can't lose money if they try!
Still, I imagine both they and SGC will come up with the same excuses as to why that's not good enough and it needs to be Bradley Stoke MkII.....

As ill tonkso posted in the Southern Transport thread, it looks like the BRT in Portsmouth is proving to be quite unpopular with commuters:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-19571310

And this is a scheme that runs completely off-road, unlike Bristol's.

This really ought to be the final nail in the coffin for BRT in Bristol. They really are a complete waste of money.

Apologies for those uninterested in Filton Airfield (but it's in Bristol and comes under Transport!)........
We got hold of the 2011 accounts for the Airfield, which have just been published. Despite BAES claiming that last year's profits were a "one-off", and they would return to being an unviable operation, it seems they've turned in another £517,000 profit again! It's like they can't lose money if they try!
Still, I imagine both they and SGC will come up with the same excuses as to why that's not good enough and it needs to be Bradley Stoke MkII.....

Ah Bertyboy, with you every minute of the day! More of this:
gEbEqYOB4xw

I say, and Save Filton Airfield! There would be no problem at all in making it pay, attracting new business to Bristol, and adding to our options for transport.

As ill tonkso posted in the Southern Transport thread, it looks like the BRT in Portsmouth is proving to be quite unpopular with commuters:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-19571310

And this is a scheme that runs completely off-road, unlike Bristol's.

This really ought to be the final nail in the coffin for BRT in Bristol. They really are a complete waste of money.

And I'm with you every second, too, Bertyboy. The complete and utter lack of joined-up thinking is beginning to take its toll on me. Don't forget that in 2005, when the BRT in Cambridge was approved, the DafT plan was to also rip up the Severn Beach line, and turn it into BRT. Thank goodness for FOSBR and others, whose indefatigable campaigning not only won the day, but also led to improvements that show how popular local rail travel can become, with very little outlay on improvement works. I am convinced that the Severn Beach line was its own feasibility study, and that without it we would not be talking about a Greater Bristol Metro today. I bet Cambridgeshire are quietly wishing they had gone for resumption of rail services instead, but that probably wasn't an option then.

BRT was expensive in Cambridge, coming in at over £181 million against a projected cost in March 2007 of £116 million. This overrun will be the subject of protracted court proceedings, in 2014. The council have set aside £6.5 million to pay for the legal costs of suing BAM Nuttall for £60 million. BAM Nuttall, meanwhile, are countersuing for £43 million. If Cambridgeshire County Council lose, then they will be liable for all the overrun in costs, plus BAM's costs, as well as their own. BAM Nuttall will be unlikely to want to do any more BRT work without cast-iron guarantees up front. Luckily, Cambridge has some top-drawer lawyers, for whom this will be El Dorado.

As our Hampshire friend ill tonkso helpfully pointed out, BRT there has not taken off. Here in Bristol, the stupid £49 million BRT2 route is intended to connect Temple Meads with the Ashton Vale Park and Ride. By the time is built, it will be in direct competition with the very sensible £36 - £50 million Portishead rail line, which will whisk many of the car drivers from Portishead to Temple Meads in a mere 17 minutes, without having to drive to the P+R first. Others will be able to take advantage of enhanced rail services from Weston super Mare once the Greater Bristol Metro takes off, depleting the customer base of what is an already not fully used park 'n' ride still further. Meanwhile, as our friend Pompey (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=94603852&postcount=93) pointed out, the new Stoke Gifford Park and Ride (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-19368355), with its 200 spaces, is seeing an average 10 cars per day. South Glos are optimistic that BRT will bring with it many more customers, despite the fact that nearby Bristol Parkway station is in the process of adding 710 extra spaces to cater for those who prefer to get to the Enterprise Zone by rail, once GB Metro is up and running. Bristol's exposure to the costs of BRT2, BTW, is around £11 million, plus 80% of any overrun beyond the £49 mill.

As regards Dronkula's point, I don't know a great deal about the cyclepath proposal, not having been through LA in a few years. I'm guessing it involves shared use of the current footpath, something that would be popular with cyclists and drivers, but not with pedestrians. Although I don't cycle, I think it perfectly sensible to make safe provision for cyclists to use - one of my daughters' teachers was killed on the LA bypass some years ago, before we began to realise how many people wanted to cycle to work. With Bradley Wiggins, Victoria Pendleton, Laura Trott et al sparking even greater interest, it is hard to argue against, but like any other transport project, it needs doing properly.

The Cambridgeshire BRT takes people right into the town centres of Huntingdon, St Ives, and Cambridge, which the heavy rail option couldn't have done. Cambridge station in particular is too far away from the city centre to be any use for local journeys. You might argue that it should've been a tram instead, but then you have to get into the disruption of digging up the streets and, looking at the size of the towns on the route of the BRT, it's doubtful whether the population is there to justify that.

The Cambridgeshire BRT takes people right into the town centres of Huntingdon, St Ives, and Cambridge, which the heavy rail option couldn't have done. Cambridge station in particular is too far away from the city centre to be any use for local journeys. You might argue that it should've been a tram instead, but then you have to get into the disruption of digging up the streets and, looking at the size of the towns on the route of the BRT, it's doubtful whether the population is there to justify that.

If the towns on the route of the BRT are not big enough for a railway to be justified, then why would you spend £181 million on BRT when the railway could have been reinstated more cheaply? One for the good people of Cmbridgeshire to answer, really. The day may yet come that they will lay tracks on the BRT route, as has happened in Edinburgh (hardly a paragon, admittedly).
I thought I would continue with a look at what we have by way of railway in the area, past, present, and who knows, maybe future?

To Lawrence Hill, firstly, the first station north of Temple Meads. As it was a few months back:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Lawrence%20Hill/IMG_1115.jpg

As it is now, with new staircases:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Lawrence%20Hill/Newstaircase.jpg

I am surprised the chance was not taken to replace the old stairways with DDA-compliant access. Apparently, this is to wait until electrification and four-tracking of the line through here. There is room for the extra tracks:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Lawrence%20Hill/Twosparetracks.jpg

like it had in earlier times:
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6005/6002951260_112db275e2_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/6002951260/)
1960s Lawrence Hill railway station, Bristol (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/6002951260/) by brizzle born and bred (http://www.flickr.com/people/brizzlebornandbred/), on Flickr


and looking back from the platform by Lidl's towards Days Junction and Temple Meads:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Lawrence%20Hill/TowardsDays.jpg

The next station is Stapleton Road, detailed above. None of the others can boast a garden centre, with hops growing. I am not going to duplicate my earlier pictures, so we move to Ashley Hill, scheduled for reopening in 2018:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashley%20Hill/Ashley1.jpg
You can just make out what remains of the original platforms. The countdown boards warn of the signal around the bend, at Narroways Junction, where the Severn Beach line triumphantly joins the main line.
Looking north:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashley%20Hill/Ashley2.jpg
the track bends right to cross Muller Road below.

The next ghost of railways past, also due for reopening as part of the Greater Bristol Metro, is:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Filton%20and%20Horfield/Horfield1.jpg

Horfield, where again the outline of a platform below Bonnington Walk can just be seen. Looking towards Bristol:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Filton%20and%20Horfield/Horfield2.jpg

Facing northwards:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Filton%20and%20Horfield/TowardsAbbeyWood.jpg
we can see sufficient space for four tracks all the way to Filton Abbey Wood.

Speaking of which:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Filton%20and%20Horfield/AbbeyWood3.jpg

This is the newest station in the area, opening in 1996, with the arrival of the Ministry of Defence next door. It replaced the previous Filton Station, across the main road. Services have improved somewhat, with around 70 trains daily each way, compared to the previous 2.
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Filton%20and%20Horfield/AbbeyWood5.jpg
This third line and platform was added in 2004 to relieve pressure, and takes all the South Wales-bound trains. That took a lot of work, including a two week possession that caused the Severn Beach line to be closed to its normal service, with everything else routed around the Henbury Loop. A fourth track may be added here, but the bridge supports may need to be moved to allow it. Outside of Temple Meads and Parkway, this feels closest to a real rail station, with proper PIDs, a ticket machine, and a seldom-used office. It is also the only urban station equipped to take HSTs:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Filton%20and%20Horfield/AbbeyWood6.jpg

I know it was Sunday, but I saw only one train all day:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Filton%20and%20Horfield/AbbeyWood1.jpg

On the way to my next port of call, I was fortunate enough to see the new "value engineered" luxury modern bus, to be used on the new stupid £49 million BRT2 route, undergoing trials:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Filton%20and%20Horfield/Move%20over%20First%20Bus_zps4faf514f.jpg

An hour or so later, I made it to North Filton Platform:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Filton%20and%20Horfield/FiltonNorthplatform.jpg

which is not scheduled for reopening as part of the Metro, despite being the 2nd most recently closed station in the area, after Filton. Although services were not advertised after 1964, so far as I can tell, a one each way daily service, intended for workers at the Airbus factory, continued until the 1980s, and the station was only officially closed on 12 May 1986. It is, alas, not the only sorry tale of closure in these parts:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Filton%20and%20Horfield/Historyforsale.jpg
Sorry Bertboy:sad2:

Ah, the times I have radioed the tower for start-up, take-off, and landings For the record, the aircraft is an Embraer ERJ-145 of bmi. Built in Brazil, but with Rolls Royce engines, it is hugely over-powered, and a pilot's dream to fly, they tell me. I have no idea why it was there.
More follows.

I continued my exploration, heading next to the city harbour, where M Shed will, if WEP get their way, have buses hurtling past on the stupid £49 million BRT2 route:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/BRT/M%20Shed_zps5ec19916.jpg

Jubilee House, seen here:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/BRT/Jubilee%20House_zps125b89e8.jpg

will have to go to allow the buses to get around the corner. The first the owners knew about the possibility of a compulsory purchase order was when their tenant, a taxi firm, rang asking why there was a notice on the door when they arrived for work. They objected to the plans at the PI.

I posted pictures from the rail line along Cumberland Road earlier, and won't duplicate them, so look back a few pages for the next part of the stupid £49 million BRT2 route, currently used by the Harbour Railway. Their station by the Create centre:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashton%20area/Harbour%20railway%20terminus_zpsc0fbdc26.jpg

has already been fenced off, and will have to be moved. The former rail line can still be seen on the historic bridge over the new cut of the Avon:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashton%20area/Ashton%20Bridge%202_zps61ff6cf3.jpg

which currently has a foot / cyclepath over it:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashton%20area/Ashton%20Bridge_zpscedcbd01.jpg

The rails will go, the bridge will be done up to standard (expect a bigger bill than that in the plans), then the stupid £49 million BRT2 route will machete its evil way through the overgrown undergrowth along the alignment of the former trackbed into the Ashton Vale sidings:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashton%20area/BRT%20route_zps544ee43b.jpg

Another shot, looking back at the bridge:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashton%20area/Ashton%20Bridge%203_zps0d504184.jpg

shows it looking defiantly proud, even though it is but a shadow of its former double-decked glory. I can't find a picture I can post here, so see this link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/2043339552/),this link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/2053436340/) and this link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/2052650829/) to see how it used to be. Whilst I was taking the picture, I wondered what evidence there was of this being a flood plain. I didn't have far to look:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashton%20area/Mud_zps8b1eab8c.jpg

Speaking of the Ashton Vale sidings, dismantled before the Portbury line was reopened, here is what remains:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashton%20area/Sidings%202_zpsfa0965ff.jpg

The former Ashton Gate station is still patiently awaiting its next passenger:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashton%20area/Ashton%20Gate%20Station_zps5c1da592.jpg
but when the station reopens, it is unlikely to be here, but probably closer to this location:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashton%20area/Ashton%20signal%20box_zps7257e823.jpg
where the signal box was. Across the road, between the old railway alignment and here, the former Mercedes dealer showroom:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashton%20area/A%20new%20bridge_zpsce76fb4e.jpg
Has been "acquired for clients". Do they know that WEP want to build a bridge to take the stupid £49 million BRT2 route over the Portishead line? Or...

I carried on towards the country whilst I was out. I found clear evidence, at White City allotments (no, I didn't know either) that Stapleton Road does not have the monopoly on lineside gardening:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashton%20area/Goat_zps48bdf9dd.jpg
They use the same complex machine to keep the grass down, whilst producing manure. From there, I headed towards the GWR footbridge over the line, lovingly restored during the rebuilding of the line to Portbury:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashton%20area/GWR%20Bridge_zps5f397778.jpg
then mindlessly vandalised. I have made copies of the "tags" in my Book of Death, for future reference. From the summit of that bridge, I found that Clifton Bridge station:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Ashton%20area/Clifton%20Bridge%20station2_zps651aab9f.jpg

remains extant, with the eponymous landmark visible behind it. It has changed much since its glory days:

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6105/6410895463_83fb41cb16_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/6410895463/)
Clifton Bridge railway station, Bristol (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/6410895463/) by brizzle born and bred (http://www.flickr.com/people/brizzlebornandbred/), on Flickr
Fast forward now to Pill, where the viaduct remains in regular use by freight traffic:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Pill/PillViaduct.jpg
The station shows signs of work since I was last here:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Pill/Pillstation.jpg
at which time the southern - left - platform was covered with ballast. Ballast has also been scalped from the bed of the down line - is this connected with the recent flooding works in the tunnel?
The option given in the GRIP 3 report for reinstating passenger traffic suggests removal of the Portbury junction, with the southernmost platform being used for passengers in both directions, so removing points and signal on a bend. Surely, though, the two tracks must become one somewhere, unless gauntlet track is used? Even then, although points would not be needed, signalling would.
Anyone working on the railway would likely build up a thirst. They would not, however, be able to slake it at the Railway Hotel:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Pill/RailwayHotelPill.jpg
needs slight attention.
The junctions remains, albeit disconnected:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Pill/PortburyJunction.jpg
with the points dumped in the undergrowth, for reinstatement for construction traffic.

Heading for Portishead, the line passes under Sheepway:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Portishead/Portburystation.jpg
Portbury station is obvious. Looking the other way, though, the line is harder to see:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Portishead/AwayfromPortburyStation.jpg

Brilliant set of photos baij. Thanks very much. A huge amount of potential, let's hope we see it realised in the next ten years.

Brilliant set of photos baij. Thanks very much. A huge amount of potential, let's hope we see it realised in the next ten years.

Hear hear! Thank you, geoffbradford, for the compliment, and for sharing my sense of optimism. I kept the best for last. I did the whole lot, then pressed the wrong button, and lost it. So I've redone it in chunks, and here comes the last for now.

After leaving Portbury station, the line passes under Sheepway again, a half mile or so later. The bridge is by Portbury Wharf. Looking back towards Portbury Station:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Portishead/TowardsSheepway.jpg
we see a good day's work for a good man with a good strimmer, and then some.
There is a path alongside the invisible line:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Portishead/Portburywharfrailway.jpg
which heads towards the nature reserve at Portbury Wharf (I promise - there are two tracks under that lot!). The bridge itself is just visible from the path:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Portishead/PortburyWharfbridge.jpg
Further on, we re-enter civilisation, in the form of Quays Avenue. Note the roundabout sign, on the left:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Portishead/QuaysAvenue.jpg
This development was hardly half-built when I last came this way, and i'm sure it wasn't more than a year or so back. By that sign, though, is clear sign of a railway path:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Portishead/QuaysAvenue2.jpg
The other side of the road doesn't need a painted dot:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Portishead/QuaysAvenue4.jpg
and from a short distance, you can see exactly where the track will cross the road:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Portishead/QuaysAvenue3.jpg
That will raise its own problem though, as level crossings are frowned upon fro new build or reinstatement projects. The GRIP 3 advocates taking the road above the railway by means of a bridge. Whilst not an engineering problem of huge complexity, there is that roundabout immediately afterwards to think about. I wonder if dropping the road below the line might be better, such as at St Lukes Road, Bemmy?

Turning left at that roundabout takes you down to a new Lidl store. The car park contains this muriel:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Portishead/Muriel.jpg
depicting scenes from railway past and future. It was painted by local artist Aili Purdy, and unveiled in April 2012 by Liam Fox MP. It stands on the site of the proposed new station, something that becomes obvious when you look back towards Quays Avenue:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Portishead/Portisheadstation.jpg
The grass here was very thick, but I am sure I could feel rail below it. There is an even plainer clue, though:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Portishead/Terminus.jpg
something of an "X marks the spot".

I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of progress on this thread, hopefully not just mine, as the work begins, but wanted the "before" set to gauge change by. My next project will be to do the same for the BRT3 route. I think that when people see what will happen in their districts, rather than just lines on a map, they may be in for a surprise!

I think hell just froze over - there's a pro-Bristol Airport editorial (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Airport-crucial-future-city/story-16942956-detail/story.html) in the Evening Post!

I think hell just froze over - there's a pro-Bristol Airport editorial (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Airport-crucial-future-city/story-16942956-detail/story.html) in the Evening Post!

And an opinion piece about airfield strategy and the Greater Bristol concept:
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Airport-Debate-Time-Push-Boundaries/story-16954907-detail/story.html

^^
Boundary expansion needs to happen, no question about it.

---------
Thanks for the photo tours Baij. Much appreciated :cheers:. The Metro seems so near and yet so very far.
---------
Slightly worried regarding some of the more prominent would be mayors comments on Bristol Airport:

Jon Rogers said: "I don't want to see the expansion of the airport. We need good international links for the city but there are other ways of doing that.

"Bristol Airport has poor road links and there are other ways of moving around the country."

George Ferguson said: "The fast train link to Heathrow (will) give us direct access to an international hub that Bristol can never be."



Regarding Ferguson's comments: To most people's knowledge, that's not the expansion's intent, nor would 10mmpa be anywhere close to creating a Heathrow, or even an airport the size of Manchester, but what it would do is something that would clearly be of benefit, so the comparison seems rather... stupid out of step.

Also, relying on Heathrow for flights that aren't seriously long haul? Not a good idea. At all.

Normally I don't care for the comment section, but this one sums up my thoughts:
When we have people like Jon Rogers and George Ferguson, both of whom are undoubtedly passionate in their wish to see Bristol progress, say that an airport is not necessary for the city's economy to prosper I really wonder what the future holds. Every other city in the country with no airport or an ailing one (Plymouth and Cardiff respectively for starters) is doing everything it can to turn around a situation it sees as catastrophic to its economic progess: yet in Bristol we seem to regard having an airport as something that is beyond the pale.

Well at least Rees and Gollop are pro-airport; The headline suggested a nightmare scenario, which it wasn't (surprisingly).


Apologies for those uninterested in Filton Airfield (but it's in Bristol and comes under Transport!)........
We got hold of the 2011 accounts for the Airfield, which have just been published. Despite BAES claiming that last year's profits were a "one-off", and they would return to being an unviable operation, it seems they've turned in another £517,000 profit again! It's like they can't lose money if they try!
Still, I imagine both they and SGC will come up with the same excuses as to why that's not good enough and it needs to be Bradley Stoke MkII.....

I think we're all interested! but the current situation is rather depressing so it's easier to not think about it :lolcry:

I'm pro airport, but with a sense of realism. The Continental direct flights into Bristol from New York did not turn out to be a boon for either city, sadly, so now go to Brussels, to connect with a flight to Bristol. The newest aircraft now flying is the Boeing 787 Dreamliner. Like the forthcoming Airbus A350XWB it will be capable of flying near 300 passengers across the Atlantic, landing at Bristol, and being able to make the return without refuelling at Shannon on the way home. But 300 people a day don't want to do the trip from Bristol, which will prosper more by taking care of the holiday traffic around Europe, the business traffic from the West of England, and the tour company charters. That won't need another runway, but will mean a bigger terminal. Last time I flew to Los Angeles, and back from San Fran, I did so from Bristol. I changed planes at some Dutch place that sounded like Shithole, but wasn't. The ride back took less time to home than would have been the case via Heathrow or Gatwick. The ride out would have been quicker had not one of the catering lorry drivers backed into the DC-10 that was to take us. So unless and until demand for far-flung travel builds, I say keep Bristol on the same lines as now, but with room for more passengers to pass through. Certainly, no going back.

More parochially, I continued my journey around the putative Bristol Metro stations, and called at Bedminster.
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Bedminster/Bemmy2_zps5b7b3171.jpg
Although a shadow of its former self in the heydays of the Wills factories, when a thousand employees would await special trains on days out, and the buffet would do brisk business, it has three platforms with lines through them, and a possible fourth, last used to turn around HSTs from Paddington. It now has about a half-hourly peak service, and hourly otherwise, showing more commitment than a few years ago. The brightly painted and decorated underpass to the platforms:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Bedminster/Bemmy3_zpsd67d3198.jpg
is a far cry from how it was five years back; dark, dank, foreboding, smelling of wee, and without any reference to my favourite Aardman character, Shaun the Sheep. I am glad to have grandchildren as an excuse to record the episodes.
The next station towards Weston super Mare and, soon, Portishead, is Parson Street:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Bedminster/IMG_1998_zps2aa4d340.jpg
which had the original Avon Metro happened, would have been an important interchange. Who knows, its day may yet come. The Portishead line, for those unfamiliar with the area, turns off to the right, immediately after the bridge.

There are currently two platforms used by passengers, with an up relief line, and room for a fourth if need be, as a nostalgic look back, towards Bedminster, shows:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Bedminster/IMG_1996_zps86cf3cc8.jpg
The up relief line is connected to the recently (2010) reopened Freightliner terminal at South Liberty Lane. On a closer look, one can see a train there:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Bedminster/IMG_1994_zps4aac9dd5.jpg
being loaded or unloaded - hard to tell - with containers of wine. This is fetched in bulk from Tilbury, then by lorry to the Constellation plant in Avonmouth to be bottled. If you buy a bottle of Banrock Station, you can be sure it has been via Parson Street Station. God bless those brave men, and their work!:cheers:
Between the two stations, there is evidence of our wonderful Bus Rabid Transit scheme. Note that the airport bus is studiously avoiding the bus lane, as tripping the lights around the bend slows the buses down. This is but one example where profligate spending on Greater Bristol Bus Network was driven more by funding than need. This area, formerly Pring and St Hill steel depot, has been reserved for BRT use:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Bedminster/Malago2_zpsbfa4846f.jpg
I would say God knows why, but the Almighty is not to blame for BRT, which was hatched by Satan, IMHO. :devil:

Behind the hoarding:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Bedminster/Malago_zps65a62181.jpg
the mighty River Malago thunders majestically towards the distant sea. (Well, trickles feebly towards an outlet via a pipe into the New Cut of the Avon near Whitehouse Street). Back on East Street:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Bedminster/Dalby3_zps2f1f91e2.jpg
BRT will do to that Barclays Bank on the corner of St Johns Road what the financial crisis failed to accomplish: it must die so that the buses can get through.
On the border between Hartcliffe and Bishopsworth, the route will come from Cater Road along a new alignment of Hengrove Way, across the grass here:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/BRT/IMG_2012_zps2c4bb003.jpg
before crossing Hareclive Road and heading along here:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/BRT/IMG_2015_zpsf947e9bb.jpg
between Gatehouse Avenue and Goulston Road. A number of cul-de-sacs currently giving access to a bit of green land will soon give access to a dual carriageway. Arriving at Queens Road, the route will cross, by priority traffic lights, from the blank space opposite:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/BRT/IMG_2010_zps14d831f1.jpg
by the Queens Head pub, into King Georges Road. These trees will have to go:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/BRT/IMG_2009_zps1bd76e9c.jpg
and this currently tranquil, leafy street will find itself host to a very frequent bendy-bus service, with "No Parking Ever" signs all the way up here:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/BRT/IMG_2008_zpsb12c16d9.jpg:cheers:

From here, Highridge Green, it begins to get even more controversial, crossing by signalised junction onto what is at present open common land:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/BRT/IMG_2007_zps9206a7da.jpg
but which when looked at on Google Maps (https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=opera&q=bs13+8hu&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest&ie=UTF-8&hl=en) seems to have a fairly distinct course already!
Somewhere around here:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/BRT/IMG_2002_zpsafbc16ac.jpg
on the A38 - I haven't figured out the spot yet - it will cross by yet another signalised junction, before tarmacing its wicked way down a substantial slice of pasture land, towards our magnificent new Town Green.
I wonder how many of the people who will live along this route have any real idea of what is to come?

BoyamIjealous, your use of the English language is hilarious, its been a real pleasure to read through all eight pages of this thread. Hopefully there'll be many more pages to come in future!

I've recently moved into Bristol so all this talk about a Metro, and the BRT is new to me, as is the campaigning by the mayoral candidates, but it all seems like action stations as far as transport is concerned, which I believe can only be a good thing. Prior to moving here I'd visited the city numerous times, my sister goes to Bristol University, and the transport problems in general are terrible.

I tend to compare it to Coventry, which although somewhat smaller, at around 300,000, and significantly so if you include the wider area around Bristol according to the all-knowing oracle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol), manages to handle its traffic very well indeed. Being on the WCM is obviously a benefit, as is being close to Birmingham, but I look more towards the way the city manages its road transport. Having been flattened after WWII, Coventry got it right by getting its infrastructure sorted during the re-building process, but the same can't be said of Bristol. Admittedly Bristol suffered a great deal less than Coventry, so the scope for re-building was never the same, but having done some research at the Central Library last week, I discovered that the road plans for Bristol in the mid to late 1960s were in fact on a par with those of most other cities in the UK at the time.

This scan in particular (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crackers250/7982994857/in/photostream) that I obtained during my visit sums up the dream envisaged by the city planners, and whilst I'm a strong advocate of an efficient, well-planned and maintained road network, having explored the city centre recently, I can say confidently that the city is better off without the multi-level junctions that the Inner and Outer Circuit Roads would have brought to Bristol. The problem is that Bristol has had very little done to it since, not just when considering road transport, but transport-related infrastructure in general. In modern times, with sustainability a key driver of projects, and a greater need than ever for transport to be spread across as many mediums as possible, it's more important than ever that Bristol City Council and the national bodies and Government itself take decisive action to ensure that people living in and around Bristol are given a viable alternative to just driving into the centre on old, tired, over-capacity roads that are well past their sell-by-date.

Urban road building in Britain has by-and-large been off the agenda now for the best part of 40 years, and we need alternatives if places like Bristol are to be relieved from the horrific congestion that plagues the city every day. My other half has to leave an hour to travel from St Annes Park to UWE's Frenchay Campus so that she isn't late, and to put it bluntly that is a disgrace, and an insult to the residents and taxpayers of Bristol. Buses don't work because they use the same congested streets as everyone else, so the real alternative is rail, and the Metro system looks excellent, an ideal solution to give people in Bristol options in how they get about the city. I really hope the councillors and policy-makers pull their fingers out of their a***s and get this project moving!

This area, formerly Pring and St Hill steel depot, has been reserved for BRT use:

Are you sure about that, B? I believe this area has planning permission for a bunch of appartment buildings with ground floor shops/cafe use. Don't think it's got anything to do with the BRT mess.

Originally they wanted to run the BRT underneath the railway line at Bedminster station and then parallel to the railway lines towards St. John's Lane where the Malago trading estate is. I believe there's a corridor next to the railway line reserved for this. Oh, and they wanted to cover up the stream there of course. Didn't go down well with the residents, luckily, so I think the plan is now to just run it on the bus lane there (which even the busses don't use, because the priority light there is too slow, meaning busses always have to stop and wait).

Apologies for those uninterested in Filton Airfield (but it's in Bristol and comes under Transport!)........
We got hold of the 2011 accounts for the Airfield, which have just been published. Despite BAES claiming that last year's profits were a "one-off", and they would return to being an unviable operation, it seems they've turned in another £517,000 profit again! It's like they can't lose money if they try!
Still, I imagine both they and SGC will come up with the same excuses as to why that's not good enough and it needs to be Bradley Stoke MkII.....

I wonder what the effect of the proposed merger between EADS and BAe Systems will be on the proposed sale of the airfield? Would EADS as the dominant partner be more inclined to keep it?

I tend to compare it to Coventry, which although somewhat smaller, at around 300,000, and significantly so if you include the wider area around Bristol according to the all-knowing oracle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol), manages to handle its traffic very well indeed. Being on the WCM is obviously a benefit, as is being close to Birmingham, but I look more towards the way the city manages its road transport. Having been flattened after WWII, Coventry got it right by getting its infrastructure sorted during the re-building process, but the same can't be said of Bristol. Admittedly Bristol suffered a great deal less than Coventry, so the scope for re-building was never the same, but having done some research at the Central Library last week, I discovered that the road plans for Bristol in the mid to late 1960s were in fact on a par with those of most other cities in the UK at the time.

God, I hope you're not advocating Bristol gets a concrete ring of death, alla Coventry!?

God, I hope you're not advocating Bristol gets a concrete ring of death, alla Coventry!?

Absolutely not, but having lived there for three years I know for a fact that that piece of infrastructure does more for the city than anything else. It could have, and should have been designed to be more aesthetically pleasing, but in terms of functionality, you'd struggle to find anything better. The city centre's roads are free from traffic, save for the buses and taxis which are free to circulate unhindered by traffic jams and congestion. It has its negatives, it looks unsightly in places, and it has been argued that it's a 'concrete collar' that has prevented Coventry from growth, but without it, the city would be a hideous mess of traffic, much in the way Bristol city centre is today.

My point in my original post, which I apologise for as I didn't make myself very clear, was that urban road building in Britain is off the agenda and has been for decades, so the solution to Bristol's transport problems cannot be through a Coventry-style rebuild in worship to the motorist. Bristol had its chance to do that, but missed it, and for totally legitimate reasons because the centre is beautiful as it is, but since abandoning the plans for the Inner and Outer Circuit, it has done little else to resolve the issues. Now the focus is on public transport, and on spreading transport across as many mediums as possible, not just road, but cycling, walking, and most importantly, rail. Bristol has been handed a lifeline to start a process of diversifying it's transport options. Currently pretty much everyone chooses the car, even though the centre's road network is broadly similar to what it was in 1950. If the City Council can get commuters out of cars and onto trains, then it will relieve the roads, end the congestion and the jams, and make the city centre a nicer place to be.

Easy-peasy! ;)

Bristol had its chance to do that, but missed it, and for totally legitimate reasons because the centre is beautiful as it is, but since abandoning the plans for the Inner and Outer Circuit, it has done little else to resolve the issues.


The Inner Circuit ring road was actually completed - the only major difference between what was built and what the original maps suggested were 2 junctions - the one where the M32/A4032 terminates ended up as traffic light controlled and the A38 junction at Redcliffe is a roundabout.

The A4 junction at Temple Meads was originally pretty much what was shown - a single carriage flyover going North-East to West with traffic going west to north-east at street level.

And the route through Queen Square to the City Centre was completed.

Both the A4 junction and the Queen Square (and City Centre route) have since been remodelled - the A4 junction becoming the Temple Circus Roundabout (although it means that traffic going North-East to West now has to go south through Temple Gate to cross the river before turning around to go back towards the city centre - in reality now people going that direction generally go down Clarence Road towards Redcliffe along the New Cut) and the Queen Sq dual carrageway was ripped up in the late 90s and the square was restored to it's former glory again and the City Centre remodelled to make the South Eastern corner for public transport only with cars diverted from Princes Street along Marsh Street to Baldwin Street.

#Map Guy,

Welcome to Bristol! Whilst not pummelled as heavily as Coventry, Bristol did indeed suffer its own blitz, and was the fifth most heavily bombed city in Britain. Much of the historic centre was destroyed, the ruined church of St Peter on Castle Green being left as a poignant reminder. Over 80,000 homes were destroyed in 77 air raids. Filton, with its aircraft factory, was a prime target. Transport also suffered from bombing. The last tram to run in Bristol was on Good Friday 1941, from Old Market to Kingswood. A bomb hit the power supply cable next to the generator house in Counterslip (still there - lovely building), and with a bit of shoving by passers by, the tram freewheeled back to the Kingswood depot. There remains a short stretch of track outside Temple Meads, and another in the car park of Gloucester Road Medical Centre. A piece of rail embedded in the graveyard outside St Mary Redcliffe was blown there from Bedminster by a German bomb. There used to be locks into the New Cut of the Avon by the Louisiana pub, and in Cattle Market Road. Both were blocked up at the outbreak of war to limit the chances of a bomb emptying the harbour. Some say, though, that the destruction visited upon the city by the Luftwaffe was as nought compared to what has been done by the council since.

Living at St Annes Park will show you the very worst of public transport in Bristol. If the number 1 bus route was modelled on the number 1 tram route, then the number 36 route was based on a hallucinogenic nightmare as described by Lewis Carroll, J R R Tolkien, or Terry Pratchett. It is the craziest bus route anywhere outside of central America.

#tpm I stand corrected! I've looked at the plans again, and can see I was wrong on that point. BRT goes out that way, and back via East Stree. That will be fun - East Street is a classic example of a nearly pedestrian only street, with no access except for buses, deliveries, picking up, and short cuts by anyone who fancies it. Adding BRT to the mix doesn't bear thinking about.

#Dronkula - ah, the Temple Circus Gyratory! A true wonder of the modern age. The biggest improvement in that area during my time in Bristol was the widening of the bridge over the Avon. It actually helped, not something we're used to in these parts.

BRT goes out that way, and back via East Street. That will be fun - East Street is a classic example of a nearly pedestrian only street, with no access except for buses, deliveries, picking up, and short cuts by anyone who fancies it. Adding BRT to the mix doesn't bear thinking about.

Yeah, and then the route goes up West Street towards Parson Street, in both directions, that's going to be interesting too.

Yeah, and then the route goes up West Street towards Parson Street, in both directions, that's going to be interesting too.

One of the mayoral candidates slated the BRT scheme, saying it was a plan chasing funding, not something useful, and I am inclined to agree. Most of the others voice "doubts", especially over the stupid £49 million BRT2 route. Nobody I have spoken to has a kind word to say about it, and even the sponsors accept that it is a compromise. West Street is bad enough now, without this big bendy bus thing, which gives me the feeling that whoever "designed" the BRT routes hasn't actually been to Bedminster, but has just seen maps and Google Earth pictures. Until looking at the maps again, I hadn't realised that it was going through Knowle West and Inns Court that's not going to be easy either.

This thing will hopefully get kicked into the long grass. For a fraction of the cost, a bus lane could be built along more of Hartcliffe Way than at present, connecting with the newish bus lane by Parson Street Station. If the passengers exist, then a bus company could simply run a frequent service along it. If there isn't sufficient bus usage now, it is unlikely that the BRT is going to be a success in South Bristol.

^^
Boundary expansion needs to happen, no question about it.
---------
Slightly worried regarding some of the more prominent would be mayors comments on Bristol Airport:
:

I have to be honest I find it absolutely incredible that anyone in this city should have a problem with increasing the airports capacity. Thank you for highlighting this D. I've decided my vote for mayor will only be for pro Bristol airport expansion candidates! The economic benefits of this great asset should be embraced not attacked!!

One of the problems with Bristol is there are too many bean and tofu eating hippyish numpties who hold the whole city to ransom!!

One of the problems with Bristol is there are too many bean and tofu eating hippyish numpties who hold the whole city to ransom!!

Whilst I eat a lot of beans, and sleep with the window open as a consequence, I am inclined to agree that the papaya-munching tricycle-riding (with space behind for Freya and Harry to sit) wearers of dubious knitwear are a threat. But as none of them owns a TV (on principle), they probably don't even know there is an airport near Bristol. They could always assuage their consciences, should they fly to yet another climate change conference in Brazil, by offsetting their carbon usage. I took this very seriously as a hobby pilot with no reason to be behind the yoke of a Piper Cherokee other than sheer enjoyment. I would chop down and burn at least two trees for every hour airborne, which seemed to help. It certainly kept my holiday cottage nice and warm in winter.
[/rant over]

Transport will decide where my vote falls. Any candidate supporting the stupid £49 million BRT2 route need not ask. He will be very welcome on my doorstep, though, and will be given my views on the subject in a polite, yet forthright, manner.

#Map Guy,

Welcome to Bristol! Whilst not pummelled as heavily as Coventry, Bristol did indeed suffer its own blitz, and was the fifth most heavily bombed city in Britain. Much of the historic centre was destroyed, the ruined church of St Peter on Castle Green being left as a poignant reminder. Over 80,000 homes were destroyed in 77 air raids. Filton, with its aircraft factory, was a prime target. Transport also suffered from bombing. The last tram to run in Bristol was on Good Friday 1941, from Old Market to Kingswood. A bomb hit the power supply cable next to the generator house in Counterslip (still there - lovely building), and with a bit of shoving by passers by, the tram freewheeled back to the Kingswood depot. There remains a short stretch of track outside Temple Meads, and another in the car park of Gloucester Road Medical Centre. A piece of rail embedded in the graveyard outside St Mary Redcliffe was blown there from Bedminster by a German bomb. There used to be locks into the New Cut of the Avon by the Louisiana pub, and in Cattle Market Road. Both were blocked up at the outbreak of war to limit the chances of a bomb emptying the harbour. Some say, though, that the destruction visited upon the city by the Luftwaffe was as nought compared to what has been done by the council since.

.

This is an intriguing post BoyamI. I did know Bristol was heavily bombed and guessed by the nasty 50s and 60s monsters littered across the city but 80,000 homes is a shocking amount.

This is an intriguing post BoyamI. I did know Bristol was heavily bombed and guessed by the nasty 50s and 60s monsters littered across the city but 80,000 homes is a shocking amount.

I too was astonished by that figure, which comes from the 1990 book "Blitz over Britain" by Edwin Webb and John Duncan. I lived in Bedminster, by Victoria Park, for a while, and several of the houses in my road had been hit, then rebuilt, all with slight variations from the original Victorian template. Think then of the huge number of prefabs until recently - Ashton Vale, Sea Mills, St George, Southmead etc - and the number begins to assume credibility. I wouldn't have guessed at 80,000 houses in Bristol then in total, let alone damaged. Housing then was densely packed in places like Totterdown and St Phillips, and one bomb could have done a lot of damage to several homes. In the 1980s, I recall an incendiary bomb being found during work on the old Bedminster post office.

Read here (http://www.bristolblitzed.org/?page_id=63) for a bit more information.

Now, I know we're all friends, and no need to mention the war and all that, but if the stupid £49 million BRT2 route gets the go-ahead, then I for one would welcome a return trip by the Luftwaffe, if only for old times' sake.

Unbelievable, thanks for those stats, I figured that since Bristol is quite far west, that it wouldn't have suffered with bombing to the same extent as cities closer to the east. How wrong I was.

I'm not even looking into public transport from where we are, my motorbike has got that aspect covered nicely! ;)

The Inner Circuit ring road was actually completed - the only major difference between what was built and what the original maps suggested were 2 junctions - the one where the M32/A4032 terminates ended up as traffic light controlled and the A38 junction at Redcliffe is a roundabout.

In terms of layout, yes, but from my research, I found this diagram for the Inner Circuit:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8448/7982994857_17d98300d0.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crackers250/7982994857/)
01075 Bristol City Centre Policy Map (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crackers250/7982994857/) by The Map Guy (http://www.flickr.com/people/crackers250/), on Flickr

That shows some significant junction remodelling, at Temple Meads for the A4, and also further along for the A38 as a 'trumpet-style' junction, plus flyovers for said roads over the Avon New Cut too. So whilst on the ground, the road was laid out as planned, the actual junctions themselves weren't progressed as planned.

I will say that Queen Square is a remarkable area, lovely and well maintained and very peaceful too. Luckily enough that's where I'll be working, so I'm quite happy the Inner Circuit doesn't plough through there anymore!

I'm sure I've made it clear already, but just to clarify in case there's any doubt, I'm not advocating the plans of Bristol Corporation in the 1960s to transform the road network in Bristol. I think if it had gone ahead it would have been a great shame and a lot of characterful, beautiful areas would have been lost. Modern Bristol with its historic architecture and green spaces is something to be treasured, you only need to go to Birmingham to see what I mean in that respect. It's a massive asset to the city and a credit that it's been kept in the condition it has until now. Long may it continue!

The plans for the rail network that look so promising and are hopefully realised over the next few years will bring many of the benefits that the new roads would have done, and that's why it's such a great opportunity for Bristol because its a real chance to make a difference for commuters in an already lovely city, without ruining it as the roads would have done.

Looking at this map (http://www.bristolblitzed.org/pdf/luftwaffe_map.pdf) I have noticed an anomaly. My house was built in 1922, along with the rest of the street, but the street is not on this map, used by the Luftwaffe in 1940-41 to bomb Bristol. If they were navigating by a 20-year-old map, it's not surprising they hit a few unintended targets.

Speaking of urban annihilation, Bristol City Council have taken up where the Luftwaffe left off. Bristol 24/7 (http://www.bristol247.com/2012/09/27/new-station-for-bristol-in-transport-plans-97488/) reports on the proposed new railway station for Avonmouth Park and Ride. If you are wondering what it looks like now, then I can help, having been there only 2 days ago:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/AvonmouthPR.jpg

This is a welcome move, although it would not have been needed had the park and ride been built closer to Shirehampton station. It is an acknowledgement that bendy-buses are unlikely to appeal to businesses looking to set up in the Enterprise Zone. But further down the article, we read that:
Other proposals include:
Street lighting: £1 million will be invested over two years, to fit residential road and street lights with white light lamps;
Road repair and resurfacing: £1 million over three years, including resurfacing work on 24 roads across the city;
£5.7 million on bus and public transport infrastructure – this includes upgrading key bus stops to the standard on the Greater Bristol Bus Network (GBBN); and improving the original showcase one bus route (service 75 Cribbs Causeway to Hengrove and service 76 Henbury to Hengrove) to GBBN standard.

So £450,000 for a railway stop, and yet another near £6 million on bus stops annd lanes. Even worse news follows:


Cllr Tim Kent, Cabinet Member for Transport, said the council was determined to ensure that the BRT plans would be delivered “on time and on budget”.

“2012 has seen a massive injection of funding into Bristol’s transport by both the City Council and the Government. This means that we can move forward with major infrastructure improvements across the city – to roads, street lighting, bus stops, and also help fund local improvement schemes through a £2 million total grant pot,” he said.

“A huge amount of work is happening to prepare the way for the start of the Bus Rabid Transit’s three schemes in the city. We need to get everything in place so that the Government sign on the dotted line and grant full approval for the bids. We’re determined to deliver this major transport infrastructure on time and budget.”

A bit rich, given that the BRT scheme is already 7 months behind schedule. There is a glimmer of hope. It doesn't look as though this is as much a done deal as I had thought earlier. If the planning inspector and the new mayor don't kill off this crazy nonsense, the government may still realise what a shocking idea it is. Metro first, with smart ticketing across the whole Greater Bristol area, then tweak the bus routes.

The Evening Post (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/New-rail-station-Bristol-transport-upgrade/story-16994633-detail/story.html) has more details of the same story, as well as the Conservative mayoral candidate's views (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Parking-levy-business/story-16987432-detail/story.html)on the parking levy.

These are truly wonderful times in which to be an unelected transport consultant with a gullible council cabinet to talk to.

BUT - HOLD THE FRONT PAGE! the BBC's Robin Markwell (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-19743418) now reports that the parking levy has been binned.
Bristol workplace parking scheme scrapped by city council

A plan for a workplace parking levy on businesses in Bristol has been scrapped, the BBC has learned.

Bristol City Council wanted to raise £27m by imposing the charge on parking spaces owned by companies.

The Federation of Small Businesses said the levy would harm local businesses which the council claimed would cost firms £1 per day per space.

But the charge has been dropped by the Liberal Democrat-ruled council which said it was not practical to implement.

The party wanted to use the money to fund several transport projects including a high-speed bus route to the city centre.

The council will now look to raise the money by using new borrowing powers devolved from government.

They couldn't even get that right. You heard it here second!

A bit rich, given that the BRT scheme is already 7 months behind schedule. There is a glimmer of hope. It doesn't look as though this is as much a done deal as I had thought earlier. If the planning inspector and the new mayor don't kill off this crazy nonsense, the government may still realise what a shocking idea it is. Metro first, with smart ticketing across the whole Greater Bristol area, then tweak the bus routes.



Well it's 7 months at the moment. If the whole Ashton Vale site gets Town Green status (and we'll have a better idea in October) then that's a potentially very large spanner in the works of the BRT2 route, which is scheduled to go right through the middle.

As for the South Bristol Link road - that must be a shoo in for a Town Green application as it crosses common land. The officers already acknowledge Town Green applications as a risk. Cllr Kent may well need a rather longer timetable than he was hoping for.

Well it's 7 months at the moment. If the whole Ashton Vale site gets Town Green status (and we'll have a better idea in October) then that's a potentially very large spanner in the works of the BRT2 route, which is scheduled to go right through the middle.

As for the South Bristol Link road - that must be a shoo in for a Town Green application as it crosses common land. The officers already acknowledge Town Green applications as a risk. Cllr Kent may well need a rather longer timetable than he was hoping for.

Geoffbradford, you read my mind! Councillor Kent (I hate to direct this at one person, as I don't know the meetings and influence he has been subject to) may find that he needs a rather longer tenure of office than he was expecting. Plus a longer spoon, if he is to sup with the devil. :devil:

It's also worth pointing out that the voting patterns show that the councillors who form the majority represent wards that are predominantly north of the original course of the river Avon, whilst the worst effects will be felt south of it. Someone many years ago told me "Never live south of a river". I know what he means now! Arise, citizens, arise! You have nothing to fear but your feelings of inadequacy! Expect southernism!

Transport infrastructure has legal precedence over Town Green. The latter has a mad legal provenance, in that anyone with spare money can apply to register a town green, by hiring a planning inspector to make a recommendation. There is no official route of appeal, as this was meant as a device to cut corners and make it easier to register a town green, without the usual kerfuffle with planning permission, planning inquiries, localism, Secretaries of State, all the way to the European Court of Human Rights. Because, of course, no single human has a right to a Town Green. It is the remit of the rich man who opposes it, or the rich man who does not oppose it. Anyone without money can watch from the sidelines. Those with money and/or education can apply for judicial review of the inspector's decision, and any council can vote to ignore it.

The winners, if there are any, will be the lawyers, who must be relishing the chance to prove both the depth of their learning and their earning power. Don't forget that none of these arguments is really about the rights and wrongs of the case, but just about how good your barrister, your planning "expert", your transport "expert", your toxicology "expert" is, when compared to the other side's "experts". Who pays the piper calls the tune! As Bristol City Council can spend seemingly unlimited amounts of the Council Tax payers' cash on consultants when compared to the minnows such as http://stopbrt2.org.uk/ who rubbished the alleged business case for the stupid £49 million BRT2 route, then they think they can crash their Panzers though any obstacle. Tell them they can't, folks, unless you told them that you thought it was a good idea

Terrible. Such is localism, which shows that these things mean only what someone wants them to mean. So long as BRT, and especially the stupid £49 million BRT2 route does not go ahead, then I don't care.

Should Cllr Kent come up with a workable scheme that does not involve the word "BUS" or "Bus Rabid Transit", he may find himself cast as more saint than sinner. Otherwise, he may find that fifty or a hundred years from now, he may be remembered as the man who did not just "Beecham" it, but "Kented" it. I gave him some credit for leading us to the introduction of the Greater Bristol Metro, but I'm not sure now. He seems to be more concerned with the bottomless pit that BRT is likely to become than any true improvement from the parlous state of affairs that I found in 1977, when I first waited at 11pm (unsuccessfully) for a number 13. Before walking from the Haymarket to Brislington. I would not be at all surprised to hear that the BRT scheme, and especially the stupid £49 million BRT2 scheme, has been scrapped by the Government because it was not a good idea. Which it isn't, because it would remove any chance of the "Avon Metro" or "Supertram" schemes.

What we may end up with is nothing more than a few bent buses coming from The Northern Passage from Emersons Green to the new "Expletive Zone".

Where exactly is "Brislington Square", by the way? I have looked all around Brislington. The only square thing (rectangle actually) is Gilton House, which is not a great example of how to do things properly. I apologise to anyone on this forum who thinks it is the best thing since Nelson Mandela House.

That's very informative baij. My understanding of Town Greens is distinctly hazy but improving after that. The Ashton Vale judicial review application seems to have been made by selecting a person to apply for it who qualified for legal aid, which presumably reduces the cost, at least on the applicant side.

I do hope that the powers that be don't force themselves so far down the wrong road, that they feel they must continue to avoid loss of face.

That's very informative baij. My understanding of Town Greens is distinctly hazy but improving after that. The Ashton Vale judicial review application seems to have been made by selecting a person to apply for it who qualified for legal aid, which presumably reduces the cost, at least on the applicant side.

I do hope that the powers that be don't force themselves so far down the wrong road, that they feel they must continue to avoid loss of face.

Like the stupid £49 million BRT2 route, you mean? No wronger road has there ever been! I'm hoping the inspector gives them a way out. The Town Green is a madcap spoiler for the football ground. Steven Hargreaves will probably build a glue factory there as revenge.

Incidentally, I looked for what had been said previously by the Politburo's transport supremo on the BBC website, and found his earlier opinion: (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-17445392)
Bristol City Council has said the scheme would cost businesses £1 per parking space per day.

Councillor Tim Kent, who is responsible for transport, said the charge would be fixed at £1 and the parking levy agreement could be drawn up so "it would be impossible to change".

Then I looked for information on what the "partners" in West of England Partnership made of this:
Advert woos firms to Gloucestershire over car park tax
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/_48928530_dsc_0414.jpg
The council said the full-page advertisement cost £2,000

A newspaper advertisement is encouraging Bristol businesses to relocate to Gloucestershire to avoid possible workplace parking charges.

Gloucestershire County Council said firms were under enough pressure without having to pay another bill.

"We're committed to no business parking charges," the advertisement stated.

Bristol City Council said the plan to charge for workplace car parks was at "an extremely early stage".

Bristol Council leader Gary Hopkins said the city had to invest in its transport services.

"We are an extremely successful economy but with that success comes problems.

"Businesses say the one thing that needs sorting out is better public transport.

"That's what the money is for," he added.

'Pro-business stance'

But the leader of Gloucestershire County Council, Mark Hawthorn, said the £2,000 Bristol Evening Post advert was not an attack on Bristol or the decisions the council had to make.

He said: "There is an opportunity just down the motorway for businesses that want to move, or are thinking of relocating, to Gloucestershire.

"We are very keen to attract businesses into Gloucestershire and have decided not to introduce this [workplace parking] levy.
BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-11138737)


All in this together? Don't think so. This, IMHO, will be seen by future political historians as the first nail in WEP's coffin. It looks as though an ITA is going to be much harder to achieve than might seem the case now, if one of the authorities is going to use its neighbour's funding plans for improved transport as a reason to poach business. What could have happened if Bristol had gone ahead with the levy, built the Bus Rabid Transit scheme, then found that every business in central Bristol had upped sticks to a new business park at Filton? The Bus Rabid Transit and re-opened Henbury station would be very successful, carrying workers to South Gloucestershire, whose council would gratefully accept the business rates. I shall scrutinise any future WEP communiqués for evidence of disunity, with an intense scrute.

Gloucestershire is not in the WEP is it?
AFAIK, it's just BCC, SGC, NSC and BANES.

I have nothing but positive feelings about opening new railway lines and stations, electrification, and improved train frequency. But Temple Meads isn't close to the city centre, which makes the train inconvenient (especially for local journeys). Not ideal, but that's the way it is. A proper transport strategy for the city, then, must deal with this issue by properly serving the city centre.

The remaining options are bus, tram, and underground. I think we can place underground in the "comically expensive" category and rule that out. That leaves tram and bus. There is potential in tram-train, but that also can't be the entire answer. The BRT does serve the city centre.

There's no doubt that the tram is the greener, higher-capacity, and more glamorous option. I happen to think that guided busways look hideous compared to tram lines, which can even be grassed over. Trams are also more expensive, and there's the rub.

There are some extremely tenuous points on that Stop BRT2 website. They complain that it will only reduce car traffic by 0.2% - but what do they expect for £49million? Fair enough if they were saying "stop being cheap, we need hundreds of millions of pounds" - but they're not. All their alternative schemes are specifically highlighted as also being cheap. Heads up - 49 million quid does not buy an excellent PT system no matter what schemes you spend it on. They complain that the BRT2 route replaces the 903 bus - but do they really expect a chunk of cash to be thrown at a route with no existing demand? They complain that it will cost more to run because it will run every 6 minutes instead of every 8 - so increased frequency is now a bad thing?

On the whole, I have mixed feelings about this whole thing. IMO, a few new stations, the reconstruction of a short branch line, and a cheap bus scheme is a pointlessly low ambition. On the other hand, dismissing all bus schemes is unhelpful.

Gloucestershire is not in the WEP is it?
AFAIK, it's just BCC, SGC, NSC and BANES.

Whoops! Quite right, Bertyboy. Seems even more disingenuous for Gloucestershire County Council to be trying to pull the rug from under South Glos.

I have nothing but positive feelings about opening new railway lines and stations, electrification, and improved train frequency. But Temple Meads isn't close to the city centre, which makes the train inconvenient (especially for local journeys). Not ideal, but that's the way it is. A proper transport strategy for the city, then, must deal with this issue by properly serving the city centre.

The remaining options are bus, tram, and underground. I think we can place underground in the "comically expensive" category and rule that out. That leaves tram and bus. There is potential in tram-train, but that also can't be the entire answer. The BRT does serve the city centre.

There's no doubt that the tram is the greener, higher-capacity, and more glamorous option. I happen to think that guided busways look hideous compared to tram lines, which can even be grassed over. Trams are also more expensive, and there's the rub.

There are some extremely tenuous points on that Stop BRT2 website. They complain that it will only reduce car traffic by 0.2% - but what do they expect for £49million? Fair enough if they were saying "stop being cheap, we need hundreds of millions of pounds" - but they're not. All their alternative schemes are specifically highlighted as also being cheap. Heads up - 49 million quid does not buy an excellent PT system no matter what schemes you spend it on. They complain that the BRT2 route replaces the 903 bus - but do they really expect a chunk of cash to be thrown at a route with no existing demand? They complain that it will cost more to run because it will run every 6 minutes instead of every 8 - so increased frequency is now a bad thing?

On the whole, I have mixed feelings about this whole thing. IMO, a few new stations, the reconstruction of a short branch line, and a cheap bus scheme is a pointlessly low ambition. On the other hand, dismissing all bus schemes is unhelpful.

Quite right, and I would not dismiss all bus schemes. The BRT1 northern fringe route looks sensible, in the absence of a rail corridor to Emersons Green etc. But the stupid £49 million BRT2 route does not, and has a number of disbenefits. The main one of these is the loss of a rail route into the city centre. We don't really have a public bus service in Bristol, just something to suit the bus company. They run services where they want, when they want, at prices that they set. Two fully crammed buses an hour earn more and cost less than four nearly full buses. Despite the £79 million lavished on Greater Bristol Bus Network, this remains the case, and it is this mindset that needs to change before the bus becomes attractive enough to tempt people out of their cars.
The revamped Severn Beach line has shown that rail travel is popular, and does achieve modal shift, to use the jargon. £49 million on a glorified bus lane to nowhere is money down the khazi, and I have advocated doing nothing at all as a better alternative.
My former home, Blackpool (well, Cleveleys really, between Blackpool and Fleetwood) faced a major dilemma as what was for many years the only public tramway in England was decaying. One serious plan was to close it north of Cleveleys, and leave that to buses, but wiser heads prevailed, and the route was largely rebuilt, with 16 new trams. Demand has been much greater than anticipated, as can be seen in the Blackpool Gazette (http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/community/1-4m-ride-resorts-new-trams-1-4972389). In Hampshire, by contrast, the new BRT route from Gosport to Portsmouth has been a massive disappointment - see the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-19571310). By all means run bus services, but don't destroy rail routes to do it. Rail is expensive to build, but cheaper to run in the long term. Short term planning is what we do in this country, and not very well. Build it cheap, build it twice is something I learned from home ownership. It applies to transport too. It is time to be bold.

Temple Meads location* isn't really a problem in the grand scheme of things. The heavy (and growing) office presence already around it plus the enterprise zone and arena(!!!!!!!!!!!!!) balance out (or will) it's relatively peripheral location.

Bristol, in part due to the topography and the patterns of development, has never been well served by a suburban rail network, the route that ran through the Bristol-Bath cycle path could be seen as a small exception, although when it existed the tram was seen as just as preferable.
Even if TM was located in a more central position, it wouldn't make much difference for local journeys i.e. those within the city itself, as the coverage of the railway lines themselves within the city are pretty fleeting.

*Whichis in the centre, it might not be right next to where all the main leisure and retail areas are, but it's still in the city centre regardless[/beingpedantic].


I think we can place underground in the "comically expensive" category and rule that out.


Actually, something akin to what they have in Lille, Marseille, and Toulouse wouldn't be far fetched at all if the city gets a leadership with decent ambition*; they're not a full blown subway networks such as the The Tube, rather 1 or 2 lines (with vehicles that are 'basically' trams), in addition to the rail and 'overground' tram networks in those cities. Before anyone goes on about population and densities, Bristol has a very similar level to those cities.



*Yeah, I saw that piece of pork flying by the window too.

Temple Meads location* isn't really a problem in the grand scheme of things. The heavy (and growing) office presence already around it plus the enterprise zone and arena(!!!!!!!!!!!!!) balance out (or will) it's relatively peripheral location.

Bristol, in part due to the topography and the patterns of development, has never been well served by a suburban rail network, the route that ran through the Bristol-Bath cycle path could be seen as a small exception, although when it existed the tram was seen as just as preferable.
Even if TM was located in a more central position, it wouldn't make much difference for local journeys i.e. those within the city itself, as the coverage of the railway lines themselves within the city are pretty fleeting.

*Whichis in the centre, it might not be right next to where all the main leisure and retail areas are, but it's still in the city centre regardless[/beingpedantic].



Actually, something akin to what they have in Lille, Marseille, and Toulouse wouldn't be far fetched at all if the city gets a leadership with decent ambition*; they're not a full blown subway networks such as the The Tube, rather 1 or 2 lines (with vehicles that are 'basically' trams), in addition to the rail and 'overground' tram networks in those cities. Before anyone goes on about population and densities, Bristol has a very similar level to those cities.

*Yeah, I saw that piece of pork flying by the window too.

Underground is right out, because of topography as well as expense. The former rail route through Brislington to Whitchurch and beyond remains unused. It was earmarked for a road scheme to relieve the pressure on Bath Road, but that has been put back to at least 2017, and will probably never happen. A bit of street running past Sainsbury into Avonmeads would connect it to the railway. Tram-trains, such as Alicante and Mulhouse have, would enable routes through to Bath and Weston to be operated. A new home for a scrapyard would be the only big thing.
When I arrived in Bristol, there was a rail route along Hotwells Road into Canons Marsh. That would be just about impossible to use again. But nothing else is impossible. I have a vision of Old Market seeing trams again, as well as a circular route from Temple Meads. It is only 8 years since the Bristol Supertram plan was scrapped, and it could still be revived.
I look at Manchester, Birmingham, and Nottingham, and I think "Boy, am I jealous!"

Underground is right out, because of topography as well as expense. The former rail route through Brislington to Whitchurch and beyond remains unused. It was earmarked for a road scheme to relieve the pressure on Bath Road, but that has been put back to at least 2017, and will probably never happen. A bit of street running past Sainsbury into Avonmeads would connect it to the railway. Tram-trains, such as Alicante and Mulhouse have, would enable routes through to Bath and Weston to be operated. A new home for a scrapyard would be the only big thing.
When I arrived in Bristol, there was a rail route along Hotwells Road into Canons Marsh. That would be just about impossible to use again. But nothing else is impossible. I have a vision of Old Market seeing trams again, as well as a circular route from Temple Meads. It is only 8 years since the Bristol Supertram plan was scrapped, and it could still be revived.
I look at Manchester, Birmingham, and Nottingham, and I think "Boy, am I jealous!"

The council are planning to recruit officer(s) with expertise in dealing with rail transport (none of the present ones have) as part of the preparations for a Greater Bristol Metro.

Hopefully someone will come in, look at a big map of Bristol and begin to make connections both metaphorical and eventually literal.

In the dying days of Avon County Council, a fair amount of work was done an a tram scheme called the Westway, which included routes into South Bristol. Along with the abandoned Parkway-City Centre line there must be a considerable amount of preparatory stuff already done and gathering dust in a filing cabinet somewhere.

Underground is right out, because of topography as well as expense.

A full blown underground network wouldn't and I'm not advocating that, but as I said before, something not too dissimilar to what certain french cities have, particularly Lille's Metropole network (albeit smaller), wouldn't be so outrageous. In Bristol's case it would initially be just one underground tram line (or at least partially underground, particularly through places such as Easton, Greenbank and Fishponds where it's too built up and the roads are too narrow for an overground line to be that effective) that runs the same route as the Bristol-Bath cycle path linking the enterprise zone with the Science park in Emerson's green.

Any new tram system would have be as segregated from normal road traffic as much as possible, in order for it to work in this city.

The former rail route through Brislington to Whitchurch and beyond remains unused. It was earmarked for a road scheme to relieve the pressure on Bath Road, but that has been put back to at least 2017, and will probably never happen. A bit of street running past Sainsbury into Avonmeads would connect it to the railway. Tram-trains, such as Alicante and Mulhouse have, would enable routes through to Bath and Weston to be operated. A new home for a scrapyard would be the only big thing.


A tram line that would run that route and travels south west along the A4174 to Bishopsworth and beyond (i.e. the airport) would be ideal, the only problem would be the area around the Wells Rd Junction where it becomes quite tight. Pull that off and link it with a Bristol-Bath cycle path line along with a rail metro and we've got ourselves a public transport network this city deserves.


When I arrived in Bristol, there was a rail route along Hotwells Road into Canons Marsh. That would be just about impossible to use again. But nothing else is impossible. I have a vision of Old Market seeing trams again, as well as a circular route from Temple Meads. It is only 8 years since the Bristol Supertram plan was scrapped, and it could still be revived.
I look at Manchester, Birmingham, and Nottingham, and I think "Boy, am I jealous!"

Think of Gorton, Failsworth and Newton Heath to take your mind off of it.

The council are planning to recruit officer(s) with expertise in dealing with rail transport (none of the present ones have) as part of the preparations for a Greater Bristol Metro.

Hopefully someone will come in, look at a big map of Bristol and begin to make connections both metaphorical and eventually literal.

In the dying days of Avon County Council, a fair amount of work was done an a tram scheme called the Westway, which included routes into South Bristol. Along with the abandoned Parkway-City Centre line there must be a considerable amount of preparatory stuff already done and gathering dust in a filing cabinet somewhere.

I'm beginning to see that our beloathed council got this all round the wrong way, probably because they were convinced the Metro would be a non-starter, and headed straight down the rocky road of BRT. Now, they are after someone with railway experience, who will presumably look at the stupid £49 million BRT2 route with abject horror. It would have been sensible to get a railway officer in before even thinking about BRT, which explains why it wasn't done. Word reaches me of a Cabinet meeting on 4 October, to discuss allocation of £4.5 million to work up BRT plans. There will be a majority in favour, but it will be interesting to see if any account is taken of the strong protests made.



Any new tram system would have be as segregated from normal road traffic as much as possible, in order for it to work in this city.

A tram line that would run that route and travels south west along the A4174 to Bishopsworth and beyond (i.e. the airport) would be ideal, the only problem would be the area around the Wells Rd Junction where it becomes quite tight. Pull that off and link it with a Bristol-Bath cycle path line along with a rail metro and we've got ourselves a public transport network this city deserves.

Not impossible, and a good idea.

Think of Gorton, Failsworth and Newton Heath to take your mind off of it.

:) Strangely, my childhood impression of Failsworth was positive, although I had only the rest of Oldham to compare it with. It did, let's not forget, give the country its most successful hangman.

Ok - this is complete 'pie in the sky' just out of the box thinking but...

With the Inner Circuit ring road basically downgraded (or even removed) between Redcliffe and the City Centre, does the remaining route still need to be a dual carriageway?

Couldn't part of that route become a 'public transport route' (preferably something on rails, although I suppose the beloved BRT could use it until that's built) to join up Temple Meads and Broadmead?

As others have said, I don't think Temple Meads is *that* far out of the way anymore. 15 years ago when it was surrounded by disused railway workings - yes it was a problem. But now that Temple Quay is the Business District for Bristol then it's made the station much better located. Remember 'The Centre' was never really 'The Centre of Bristol' - it was named that because the old Tram Central Depot was there. The 'true' centre of Bristol, strictly speaking, would be Bristol Bridge/Castle Park.

A fast and frequent, and completely separate from private transport, route between Temple Meads and Cabot Circus/Castle Park would be perfect. Maybe have the route going along the eastern side of Temple Way?

Ok - this is complete 'pie in the sky' just out of the box thinking but...

With the Inner Circuit ring road basically downgraded (or even removed) between Redcliffe and the City Centre, does the remaining route still need to be a dual carriageway?

Couldn't part of that route become a 'public transport route' (preferably something on rails, although I suppose the beloved BRT could use it until that's built) to join up Temple Meads and Broadmead?


There was something on rails between BTM and Redcliffe. The tunnel is still there (and was build for broad gauge!)

One portal is here:
http://binged.it/PCPgBa

And the other under these trees (would need excavating out again).
http://binged.it/QD1Gf6

Of course, what do you do once you get to the Ostrich? There's all those flats there now, which scuppers any practical scheme.

edit: Actually, with a tram, you could potentially replace the footbridge over the marina with a joint tram/foot bridge then turn it down Merchant's Quay then right onto the Prince Street bridge into town? Some tight bends though.

Ok - this is complete 'pie in the sky' just out of the box thinking but...

With the Inner Circuit ring road basically downgraded (or even removed) between Redcliffe and the City Centre, does the remaining route still need to be a dual carriageway?

Couldn't part of that route become a 'public transport route' (preferably something on rails, although I suppose the beloved BRT could use it until that's built) to join up Temple Meads and Broadmead?

As others have said, I don't think Temple Meads is *that* far out of the way anymore.

Not pie in the sky at all! That was the plan for the original light rail route. The trams would go through the side furthest away from St Mary Redcliffe church, before crossing the Bascule bridge into the Grove, entering the Centre via Prince Street.

There was something on rails between BTM and Redcliffe. The tunnel is still there (and was build for broad gauge!)

One portal is here:
http://binged.it/PCPgBa

And the other under these trees (would need excavating out again).
http://binged.it/QD1Gf6

Of course, what do you do once you get to the Ostrich? There's all those flats there now, which scuppers any practical scheme.

edit: Actually, with a tram, you could potentially replace the footbridge over the marina with a joint tram/foot bridge then turn it down Merchant's Quay then right onto the Prince Street bridge into town? Some tight bends though.

Back to the future, Bertboy! The old bridge over the road by the Grosvenor wouldn't be needed for a tram. The bridge could indeed be restored, and Blackpool's Flexity trams would probably be able to negotiate the route you mention. Here is that bridge in its heyday:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/Bathurstbasin.jpg

Now what's wrong with that?

When was the broad gauge line finally torn up? Or was in standard gauge by the time that photo was taken?

When was the broad gauge line finally torn up? Or was in standard gauge by the time that photo was taken?

Difficult to say with certainty, Bertyboy. That picture dates from around 1960. so is certainly standard gauge. Broad gauge began to lose influence almost from the beginning, GWR reached Gloucester in 1844, but Gloucester was already served by standard gauge from Birmingham. IKB continued his broad gauge march northwards, but stopped at Wolverhampton, in 1854. Why is not certain, because Parliament had opted for standard gauge in 1846. So for the next few decades, there was a lot of work on existing broad gauge to add a third rail, giving the option of either, right until 1892, when the last broad gauge passenger train ran. Some isolated lines, however, remained broad gauge, mainly in ports, and if the Port of Bristol still had working broad gauge stock, they may still have used if to moved stuff within the port - which is why I don't know exactly when the line was narrowed.

The reasons for the change were not dissimilar to how VHS won the day over Betamax. (Note to younger readers: this relates to the Olden Days, when TV was recorded onto magnetic tape, so that you did not miss Match of the Day's report on Oxford United beating Arsenal 3-0 to stay in the highest division). Arguably, and Brunel argued it, broad gauge gave the superior stability. But it used more land, and standard gauge proliferated.

What we do know is that the connection to Temple Meads was lost in 1964, and the track was lifted. The branch to Canons Marsh, which followed Hotwells Road, closed the following year. All that remains of that is the trackbed just the city side of the Create Centre, behind Avon Crescent. The last coal train to Wapping Wharf ran in 1987, and the bridge to Temple Meads by the Grosvenor hotel was finally lifted in 1994.

Guys! Pods! Pod travel plan for Bristol enterprise zone (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-19757736) :cool:

To be fair, it's probably both the most sensible and most realistic idea I've heard in ages, though I'm not sure if this is just another election stunt or actually being considered.

Guys! Pods! Pod travel plan for Bristol enterprise zone (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-19757736) :cool:

To be fair, it's probably both the most sensible and most realistic idea I've heard in ages, though I'm not sure if this is just another election stunt or actually being considered.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

It's a distraction from the stupid £49 million BRT2 route, and a spoiler attempt for the new mayor. If they were serious, it would be "value-engineered" down to a fairground ride, before being dropped.

I don't know! I have to admit, I've fantasised about this before (but then I'm not a civil engineer of course). The whole system seems to have a lot going for it: it's fairly cheap (still tens of millions though), it's point-to-point (biggest attraction for me), so could easily be expanded in a hotchpotch fashion. But best of all, it is able to reconcile high frequencies (or rather: a short wait) even in the context of a low-density environment. And could probably operate 24/7. It's also made in Brizzle (ish) ;)

Wouldn't really be able to replace the North Fringe to Hengrove BRT, but could go a long way of creating connectivity from/to Temple Meads.

Having said that, you're probably right.

I don't know! I have to admit, I've fantasised about this before (but then I'm not a civil engineer of course).

You're not alone. Our Cabinet Member for Transport is also fantasising.

Wouldn't really be able to replace the North Fringe to Hengrove BRT, but could go a long way of creating connectivity from/to Temple Meads.

Having said that, you're probably right.

Actually, if it's a straight choice between the stupid £49 million BRT2 and this new latest wheeze, maybe we shouldn't dismiss it out of hand?

Wow, I had no idea that tunnel existed ;) Conneced the old harbour railway to Temple Meads I guess. How very useful. Assuming it hasn't been filled in, anyway.

It'd be easier to curve onto Lower Guinea street though, surely? Keeps the squeeling of the tight corner away from the flats (and makes it the problem of the new General Hospital development :D)

Having been on the ones at LHR, they are efficient, but would there is only one start and endpoint there (Business Parking and T5). I'm not sure how well they would scale. But if they did, it would be a great showcase for a local business (to show that they are suited to cities as well as airports).

Wow, I had no idea that tunnel existed ;) Conneced the old harbour railway to Temple Meads I guess. How very useful. Assuming it hasn't been filled in, anyway.

It'd be easier to curve onto Lower Guinea street though, surely? Keeps the squeeling of the tight corner away from the flats (and makes it the problem of the new General Hospital development :D)

I'll try and get piccies if I'm thereabouts.

Having been on the ones at LHR, they are efficient, but would there is only one start and endpoint there (Business Parking and T5). I'm not sure how well they would scale. But if they did, it would be a great showcase for a local business (to show that they are suited to cities as well as airports).

Our transport guy reckons these are doable, and you can go see them in action at Heathrow. I think you may be right about scaling, Bertyboy. They would need to hold more than 6 peeps at time.

As they would be bigger, it might be easier to run them on rails, and give them a permanent power supply. That would be doable, and if you go to Manchester, you can see them...

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Oldham/102_1572.jpg

And the other under these trees (would need excavating out again).
http://binged.it/QD1Gf6


I'm afraid you have this wrong :( The Eastern portal is here:
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=sk75z1gshv47&lvl=18.56&dir=175.55&sty=b&form=LMLTCC

As seen in this photo http://bristol-rail.co.uk/wiki/File:Redcliffe_Tunnel1.jpg
(More photos here: http://bristol-rail.co.uk/wiki/Redcliffe_Tunnel)

It's surrounded by buildings and impossible to get a tram down to. The old railway was elevated over the A4 and a reinstatement would have to bulldoze all sorts of stuff out of the way.

I'm afraid you have this wrong :( The Eastern portal is here:
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=sk75z1gshv47&lvl=18.56&dir=175.55&sty=b&form=LMLTCC

As seen in this photo http://bristol-rail.co.uk/wiki/File:Redcliffe_Tunnel1.jpg
(More photos here: http://bristol-rail.co.uk/wiki/Redcliffe_Tunnel)

It's surrounded by buildings and impossible to get a tram down to. The old railway was elevated over the A4 and a reinstatement would have to bulldoze all sorts of stuff out of the way.

Yeah, I realised this earlier today. I was trying to find some photos of the route between the portal and BTM via the bridge over the Bath Road, but without much success. :(

Yeah, I realised this earlier today. I was trying to find some photos of the route between the portal and BTM via the bridge over the Bath Road, but without much success. :(

Your wish, my pleasure!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/6702262627/

This one shows why the trams stopped running:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/2050158286/

The main power cable from the generator house to the tramway was under that bridge.

This one's a beauty, and shows the lines disappearing into the portal, right behind St Mary Redcliffe, plus the route into the docks on the other side.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/7988881544/

I can't post the pictures themselves, as brizzlebornandbred has removed the BB code. If I find unprotected copies, then I will post them.

There is one of Montpelier, which makes it look like two lines through the tunnel would be no problem.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7020/6606361961_4f4b1d60e9_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/6606361961/)
Montpellier Railway Station, Bristol (http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/6606361961/) by brizzle born and bred (http://www.flickr.com/people/brizzlebornandbred/), on Flickr

As a random and completely unrelated question, are there any buses running between Bristol and Gloucester?

I'm touring round the country using only buses for a book, but can't find a way to get between the two cities without a lengthy detour via Swindon.

As a random and completely unrelated question, are there any buses running between Bristol and Gloucester?

I'm touring round the country using only buses for a book, but can't find a way to get between the two cities without a lengthy detour via Swindon.

You could look at the National Express service to Birmingham, Friday and Sundays only. You won't enjoy it.

You could look at the National Express service to Birmingham, Friday and Sundays only. You won't enjoy it.

Nah, just using bus and not coach. Thanks anyway!

Nah, just using bus and not coach. Thanks anyway!

I think you can do Bristol to Thornbury and then to Gloucester.

Bristol - Thornbury:
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/bristol_bath/journey_planning/timetables/timetable.php?day=1&source_id=2&service=309/310&routeid=5374231&operator=3&source=sp

Thornbury - Gloucester:
http://www.fixmytransport.com/routes/south-west/207-bus--2

Over 2.5 hrs, but it is a very scenic route! (I think it's now Mike's Travel from Thornbury to Glos., rather than Jackies).

I don't think there's a direct bus because I've a feeling Stagecoach run Gloucester buses but Firstgroup run Bristol. And by that, I don't just mean Firstgroup run Bristol buses, mean they run the whole city.

However, a more direct route rather than via Swindon could possible be via Chepstow. I think there's express bus routes to Chepstow from both cities.

No idea what the interchange would be like though.

Speaking of buses, the beloathed Bus Rabid Transit is in the Evening Post (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/pound-20-million-ndash-just-bendybus-paperwork/story-17024588-detail/story.html?afterReg=Y) again.

£20 million – just for bendybus paperwork

THE controversial bendybus scheme will initially cost more than £20 million – just to sort paperwork.

Tomorrow Bristol city councillors will be asked to approve spending £5 million.

I won't paste the whole article, on the advice of the Samaritans. My favourite quote from the font of wisdom that is our cabinet member for transport is:

He said that transport schemes were highly complex and unless all the work was carried out thoroughly, a scheme could be derailed by a technicality. He said that thousands of pages of evidence and information are presented at public inquiries but inevitably the inspector says that more work should have been done on specific issues.

Derailed, eh?

I don't think there's a direct bus because I've a feeling Stagecoach run Gloucester buses but Firstgroup run Bristol. And by that, I don't just mean Firstgroup run Bristol buses, mean they run the whole city.

However, a more direct route rather than via Swindon could possible be via Chepstow. I think there's express bus routes to Chepstow from both cities.

No idea what the interchange would be like though.

Cheers for the input. I don't mind getting more than one bus, just as long as the route is more direct than having to go via Swindon.

I think you can do Bristol to Thornbury and then to Gloucester.

Bristol - Thornbury:
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/bristol_bath/journey_planning/timetables/timetable.php?day=1&source_id=2&service=309/310&routeid=5374231&operator=3&source=sp

Thornbury - Gloucester:
http://www.fixmytransport.com/routes/south-west/207-bus--2

Over 2.5 hrs, but it is a very scenic route! (I think it's now Mike's Travel from Thornbury to Glos., rather than Jackies).

Aah, thought the 207 had been cancelled. If at least one company is still running it, that'd be sorted. Cheers!

And scenic is what I'm after. :cool:

Aah, thought the 207 had been cancelled. If at least one company is still running it, that'd be sorted. Cheers!

And scenic is what I'm after. :cool:

Incidentally, do you know about the Traveline website? http://www.traveline.org.uk

You can do timetable searches for all modes of transport nationwide (inc just telling it to provide bus details if that's what you want).

Aah, thought the 207 had been cancelled. If at least one company is still running it, that'd be sorted. Cheers!

And scenic is what I'm after. :cool:

There is definitely a service between Thornbury and Gloucester that runs a few times a day, because it stops near a friend's house in Tytherington. It might be a different number now as well - the 201 maybe?

edit: Yes, 201:
http://www.travelinesw.com/swe/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?language=en&dateDay=20121008&command=direct&net=swe&line=45201&sup=%20&project=y10&outputFormat=0&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false

News has broken on the BBC that the decision to allocate £4.5 million for Bus Rabid Transit, taken last week by the politburo has been called in by the conservative group on the council. They say it should be a decision for the new mayor. Looks like the beginning of the end for the stupid £50 million BRT 2 route.

News has broken on the BBC the the decision to allocate £4.5 million for Bus Rabid Transit, taken last week by the politburo has been called in by the conservative group on the council. They say it should be a decision for theme mayor. Looks like the beginning of the end for the stupid £50 million BRT 2 route.

Delays a decision until late November at the earliest. By then a mayor in the probable shape of Marvin Rees, or perhaps George Ferguson, will be in post. Neither is a big fan of BRT2 so perhaps we will at last be able to wave it a not so fond farewell. The inspector's report from the public inquiry is also due around then, which may give the mayor the ammunition he/she needs.

Of the three BRT schemes, BRT2 is the one with the smallest contribution from the other authorities (£1.5m from North Somerset) so it ought to be the easiest to unravel.

Imagine what you could do with the £4.5m required for BRT preparatory work. That might be enough to open/re-open several of the proposed stations on the metro as well as replacing shelters, adding real time passenger information etc.

I rather hope the BRT 1 & 3 routes survive. That does seem to add something not available by better use of rail.

Personally, I hope BRT dies a death, full stop. It's the wrong technology at the wrong time.

Harsh words, Bertyboy, but not unfair. That said, I think that BRT1 from South Glos to Temple Meads and a loop around the centre and Cabot Circus could be a hugely successful route. Taking it further south merely increases the chances of the timetable slipping, so I would look at the Hengrove Park BRT3 option as a separate route, also looping around the centre and Cabot Circus to Temple Meads, but in the opposite direction. Anyone from Bradley Stoke who really wants to go to Hengrove can simply change buses at Plot 6. Anyone else working in Bristol centre would be catered for, as would the shops at Cabot Circus, and suddenly you have a circular shuttle route from the station at no extra cost. The intention is to integrate with the rest of public transport, so you achieve everything desirable, whilst losing nothing, and save a few quid towards the real future solution. As the routes are the same, no new permissions would be needed - simples!

South Glos have already put in place the Stoke Gifford car park, subjected to ridicule by an unfeeling Evening Post, which the BRT is scheduled to call at. Time will tell if that proves to be the more popular route to the Enterprise zone, rather than walking 5 minutes to Parkway and being at Temple Meads within 10 minutes. Cancelling BRT1 would certainly incur the wrath of S Glos DC, who would be within their rights to seek to recover their outlay from whoever caused the problem - namely Bristol CC.

Under the current proposals, after BRT3 has ram-raided its wicked way over the New Cut, it becomes no different to any other bus route, except it is a bendy bus rather than a double decker. It has no segregation from ordinary traffic, other than the bus lanes already in existence, plus widening of a few pinch points around Novers Hill. It even follows a classic Bristol bus strategy after leaving Hartcliffe Way, meandering through Knowle West, then down Bamfield before finally reaching it's goal, meaning that anyone actually going to Hengrove Park will probably be quicker getting off in Hartcliffe Way, and finishing the journey on Shanks's pony. The reason for this dog's breakfast of a dogleg is to strengthen the case for funding, which adds credence to George Ferguson's view of it being a system designed to secure funding, rather than to solve problems. Remove the fantasy lo-carb bendy bus, and you have a bus. Not a rapid bus, because we're all going to have 20 mph zones, and someone will have to obey the signs, but a bus.

BRT2 is a dead duck, though. The face- and money-saving solution would be for the inspector who held the PI to rule it out, or put such stringent conditions as to render it even more useless than it already is. Failing that, BCC could apologise profusely to North Somerset, and offer to railroad through the - well, railroad to Portishead by way of compensation, whilst adding the bus lane to Hotwell Road inbound in the morning rush hour, so achieving everything North Som wanted from BRT2.

However it ends up, it will be a poor second best to a strategy based on rail, with supplemental bus services. When this thing is busy hoovering passengers from the far-flung parishes to whisk them direct to the EZ, though, what happens to the existing bus routes? Do they remain exactly as at present, although with only half the passengers, or does, for example, Westbury on Trym, with its 12 minutely double decker number 1 bus to town suddenly find itself with a half-hourly 24 seater? I don't care how glossy the brochure looks, I think this thing will primarily attract people from slower bus routes, rather than out of their cars. Its principal competition will come from the railway, for BRT1 and 2.

I'm afraid I'm not sold on BRT1, BAIJ.
It's not the route I object to. It's the fact that in South Gloucs, it was originally going to be off-road, using the routes set aside for the light rail system that BCC and SGC managed to screw up. But the idea of a guided bus that could accelerate quickly (and therefore get you from Bradley Stoke to the centre faster than the 73, 75 or car) has been watered down to.....the X73, but using bendy buses, albeit with an expensive junction on the M32 - and, of course, using up a lane of it between St. Paul's and Frenchay. They aren't even using the wide grass verge through Bradley Stoke that was intended for this very thing.
Well, that gains us nothing. It's held up in all the same traffic that is currently held up in Stoke Gifford and Bradley Stoke (and the A38). If it was a grade-separated trolley bus that could accelerate quickly, quietly, in its own channel, I would say it makes absolute sense. But it's not; it's an old-fashioned diesel bus, so I can't agree with it. Pointless and costly. A folly.
As with BRT2, it's doomed to failure before it starts.

That's value engineering for you, Bertyboy. You start off with something clever, then strip the clever bits off it. It is truly a fairly royal screw up, which will probably end up as yet another inquiry into what went wrong. George Gollop's point is good, though - it is lunacy trying to rush this through with the mayoral mud slinging bout so close in time. You know the Big Dollop's right!

Trolleybus is an idea, cuts fumes etc, but why not just lay tracks? Reading transport minister Norman Baker's wise words, you find that not only is he keen on light rail, he is so sure the tram-train experiment in Yorkshire, not due to start until 2015, will be a success, that he wants us to start planning systems as though it were up and running already. For Bradley Stoke, this would be a perfect answer, joining the main line either at Patchway or Parkway. For the proposed stupid £50 million BRT2 route, it is a no-brainer. It could be used for either LRT to Ashton Vale, stopping at Spike Island and Ashton Gate station, or a tram-train link to the reopened Portishead line, giving two options for going home to Pill or Portishead, or it could be used for both ides.

In all honesty, rail is expensive. But it is durable, has lower running costs, and is known to attract people out of cars, in a way that buses won't.
It is harder to value engineer a tram way - you can't easily compromise like BRT is being watered down. I'm sure Tim Collins will still have copies of the plans for the tramway - what we need now is a bit of impetus.

Tim Kent posted the ULRT study report via Twitter yesterday - you can see it here. (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B82CuIC6Bvk9aUo3dDB5amo3TmM/edit) So is it right?

Rails are the best solution. However, as soon as you put them down, you open yourself to a vast unknown quantity in terms of costs - as Edinburgh will tell you! Moving services is the bulk of the cost of a tram system. A trolleybus has the advantages of fast acceleration, no-fumes, regenerative braking, can move around stranded cars. The downsides are: not quite as energy efficient and slightly messier overhead equipment (double wires instead of single). They're also well suited to hilly cities like Bristol.

I know Tim Collins would rather have trams - he spent a lot of time trying to get them in Bristol last time around. I'm just trying to think of a pragmatic compromise that isn't a complete cop-out like BRT.

Moving services is the bulk of the cost of a tram system.

Which is why the BRT2 route is perfect for a tramway. The rail track from M Shed to Ashton Vale was laid in 1906. If it has services under it, which I doubt, they haven't needed looking at for 106 years. The city centre would be more problematic, having telephone tunnels, gas, electric, water, and even the River Frome under it. It is not insurmountable though, as its correct title, the Tramway Centre, suggests.

I'm thinking now might not be the time, what with us all being in this together and everything. Having said that, a decent civil engineering project can have a real kick-ass effect on a local economy. The worst thing would be to spend scarce cash on crap projects like the stupid £50 million BRT2 route that would mean destroying the route for a real solution.

Consider also Bristol City Council's placatory words in the website introducing M Shed:
The whole site – the sheds and their quayside – is one of the last remaining complete 20th century docksides in the UK.

The sheds will be fully and sympathetically renovated. Their historic character will be preserved and a stunning glass rooftop gallery will be added to create an additional exhibition space.
which seem utterly at variance with the idea of bendy buses hurtling past at 18 mph.

There are some lovely old pictures here. (http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8953)

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/south-west/79041-bristol-airport-secures-279m-refinancing-deal

By Kaleigh Watterson , South West Correspondent

Bristol Airport has refinanced its previous debt with a £279m funding package from a consortium of five banks. The finance deal comes as the airport's latest accounts have revealed a slight increase in its turnover and growing passenger numbers.

The airport, which is owned by Macquarie European Infrastructure Fund and Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan, has secured the funding from a group comprising of Commonwealth Bank of Australia, Credit Agricole CIB, HSH Nordbank, RBS and Export Development Canada.

The deal refinances the previous bank funding put in place in 2005.

The group of banks were advised by Hogan Lovells, with the team led by London infrastructure finance partner Andy Gallagher, assisted by senior associates Camille Astier and Cheryl Enayati and associate Peter Flew.

Partner Michael Bates of Clifford Chance acted as legal adviser to the borrower and Rothschild provided financial advice.

Andy Gallagher from Hogan Lovells said: "We are pleased to have advised the lenders on this transaction, a successful example of an increasing number of refinancings of pre-credit crunch debt packages by infrastructure assets and owners as part of the so-called "refinancing wall."

Revenue at Bristol Airport has also slightly increased, its latest financial accounts have revealed.

For the year to 31 December 2011, Bristol Airport Ltd has reported turnover of £58.4m – up from £57.6m in the previous year.

But pre-tax profit has dipped slightly from £22.8m to £22.3m.

In the directors' report, the business said growth at the airport was approximately 1 per cent which "compared favourably to other airports in the South West and Wales region".

Bristol Airport said the growth in passenger numbers was achieved despite a greater than expected decline in the charter sector because of increase growth from the low cost and full service markets.

Low cost passenger numbers grew by 2.2 per cent with EasyJet and Ryanair expanding their operations at the airport during the year. The company added that full service passenger numbers increased by 10.9 per cent because of the expansion of services from Aer Arann, Air France, Brussels Airlines and KLM.

In the results, the company added that it was working with its financial advisers to finance its debt and was "confident" of achieving a successful outcome to this before the facilities mature on 31 March 2013.

In the report, the business said: "The outlook for the airport remains positive to the broad route, the good mix of key carriers and positive regional demographic. In addition, the capacity constraints at the main London airports should assist Bristol Airport to reduce 'leakage' from the South West in the medium term.

"The company is committed to the continued investment in the sustainable development of the airport, thereby providing the facilities to support the economic and social prosperity of the South West region."

Stop BRT2 (http://stopbrt2.org.uk/), whose admirable aims I wholly support, have raised an online petition (https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-mayor-of-bristol-please-stop-brt2?utm_campaign=share_button_action_box&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition&utm_term=32456524) to the incoming Bristol Mayor, whoever it may be, asking them to scrap the stupid £50 million BRT2 route. One candidate has already signed it, as have I and at least one other user of this forum. It is my civic duty to ask you all to follow the link above, and nail your colours to the mast.

If you think it is a good idea, then please read through Stop BRT2's rebuttal of the business case, accessible through their website. If then you still think it a good idea, I can recommend a therapist. It seems the Lib Dem faction at BCC are the only people who support it, and not even all of them are more than lukewarm.

Remember that this will introduce nothing new, it is a £50m vanity project to reroute perfectly adequate bus services from Hotwells Road. An inbound morning peak only bus lane there would achieve the same at a fraction of the cost.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-20115317

West Coast Mainline delay sparks rail improvement fears

The West Coast Mainline franchise delay has put planned improvements for Bristol at risk, it is feared Planned improvements to rail services in and around Bristol are at risk as a result of the West Coast Mainline franchise delay, an MP has warned.

A decision to award the line to First Group was scrapped due to "technical flaws" in the bidding process.

Bristol West MP Stephen Williams (Lib Dem) said: "What I think is at risk is all the local improvements that we were looking forward to in Bristol."

Bidding for all British franchises is on hold while a review is carried out.

'Delay and congestion'

"There were those services on the Severn Beach line, maybe a line out to Portishead, lines across north Bristol and making better use of those railway lines that we already have in Bristol that are closed to passenger traffic," added Mr Williams.

Chris Irwin, from TravelWatch SouthWest, said: "Things that we as passengers would have benefited from, the promised new vehicles, the promised new station improvements, promised minor infrastructure improvements, can make a lot of difference to daily travel.

"Those have undoubtedly not happened now. When they do happen, there'll be years of delay and congestion to make up for."

Apart from the risk of losing planned local rail improvements, the cost of the delay is also being raised.

"We're right back at the drawing board. In terms of how it's going to move forward it's going to be hard to say how much it's going to cost.

"Some people say it's just the £40m the bids themselves cost, but if you talk to people in the industry they say 10 times the cost, but perhaps a 100 times might be a better figure - we might be talking billions," added Mr Irwin.

'Big mistake'

Four companies were bidding to run trains for 15 years from April: FirstGroup, Arriva, National Express and Stagecoach.

They were due to submit proposals, but the overall bidding review is not expected to report back to ministers until Christmas, which could delay the Great Western tendering.

Patrick McLoughlin, Secretary of State for Transport, said: "What has happened is unacceptable and deeply regrettable and all I can do is apologise.

"We have made a big mistake as far as the department is concerned."

Let's hope the delays aren't too long, but at least a year looks possible. On the positive side, electrification and four tracking will be done by Network Rail, so they should carry on regardless of the new franchise mess.

Bristol's bendy bus rapid system seems to have been pulled.

I suppose putting in bus lanes will only be a massive waste if it all turns to rail though bus lanes will still be of some use as all major cities have and use them...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-20124370

So is this good news?

Bristol's bendy bus rapid system seems to have been pulled.

I suppose putting in bus lanes will only be a massive waste if it all turns to rail though bus lanes will still be of some use as all major cities have and use them...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-20124370

So is this good news?

From that link it seems that they are intending to use longer single decker buses with multiple doors rather than bendy buses.

The routes are presumably the same and the much loved (!) BRT2 scheme remains. As some of the corners are rather tight that could make getting round them even more interesting.

I see they intend to go to Temple Meads now rather than 400m from it. Still a half baked plan though. I wonder what the other "radical changes" proposed are? At least it looks like the council is beginning to give way under the mounting pressure.

Yay!! People power

From that link it seems that they are intending to use longer single decker buses with multiple doors rather than bendy buses.

The routes are presumably the same and the much loved (!) BRT2 scheme remains. As some of the corners are rather tight that could make getting round them even more interesting.

I see they intend to go to Temple Meads now rather than 400m from it. Still a half baked plan though. I wonder what the other "radical changes" proposed are? At least it looks like the council is beginning to give way under the mounting pressure.

This scheme has now lost any thin veneer of legitimacy it may once have had, and I shall henceforth refer to it at Bust Rabid Transit. This is a major climbdown for Dr Jon and his LibDem cronies, as well as for WEP, and I wonder what brought it about. Remember the original glossy brochure?
The new bus rapid transit network will be a higher quality experience; reliable, easy to use and understand, with modern vehicles and, in places, its own right of way.

and:
The rapid transit network will use modern high quality vehicles.

or:
The bus-way from Long Ashton Park & Ride to Prince Street Bridge will require permission to use. We can set quality standards for vehicles on both the section and the wider network.

All from the TravelWest propaganda and broken promises website (http://travelwest.info/rapidtransit).

So has the government intervened? Or has WEP finally realised that there is no such thing as the low carbon tram-like quality riding super-bus this whole project was supposed to hinge upon? Because without the "higher quality experience" promised by BRT, there is little likelihood of anybody being tempted out of the car and onto the bus.

I'm not too upset about broken promises, we're used to that with Bristol City Council. In fact, I hope they break all the others they have made about Bust Rabid Transit, and scrap whatever is still left of the original vainglorious plans. Spend the time, effort, and money on rail first, sort the buses out later.
It sounded like pie in the sky at the time, and it sounds even more that way now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-20115317

West Coast Mainline delay sparks rail improvement fears

The West Coast Mainline franchise delay has put planned improvements for Bristol at risk, it is feared Planned improvements to rail services in and around Bristol are at risk as a result of the West Coast Mainline franchise delay, an MP has warned.



This is much more serious, if accurate, and I hope it is just a bit of political scaremongering by Stephen Williams MP. I can't see why the biggest cock-up in a lot of years by DafT should necessarily get in the way of progress, though. The electrification project is surely safe, as contracts have been signed. Similarly, the resignalling project is essential, come what may. Four-tracking to Filton Bank will have to be done soon, just to keep the current services running. Portishead is unlikely to open before 2017. Any future franchise will specify services on that line, and surely this mess won't take 5 years to sort out?

Maybe there was a cunning plan all along: first, secure City Deal that states that the council may keep the money saved if it manages to deliver the BRT schemes below estimated costs. Then, downgrade BRT to a glorified bus route with smart/pre-board ticketing, grudgingly accept inspector's recommendation to re-route BRT2 via Cumberland Road, then spend the millions saved on other things ;)

So....basically it's just been watered down even further!

Bristol's rapid transit system had gone:

Light Rail
->
Guided, high-speed busway
->
Partially Guided busway (Bus Rapid Transit)
->
Unguided busway, with super-spanky bendy buses
->
Bog standard bus with a few short stretches of bus lane

Don't worry, the stupid dedicated bus lanes will be the last thing to go. Bit by bit, the idea is falling apart. Over 80% of the network is "on-road", so it has no advantage over the buses we already had. There's no point spending money on this idea now and everyone knows this. It's just becoming a new bus route.

Bus Rapid Transit (the promise):
http://www.bristol247.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Bus-Rapid-Transit-Bristol.jpeg

Bus Rapid Transit (the reality):
http://bus-and-coach-photos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/3072.jpg

...Then, downgrade BRT to a glorified bus route with smart/pre-board ticketing,...

I hear a lot of politicians talk about this. But the reality is that we need to have a fully formalised system and national database for whatever card-based ticketing is going to be implemented *before* we buy all the equipment for our Buck Rogers style buses (or Wright Gemini or whatever).

We know it will be ITSO and not the tech that Oyster uses, we just don't know how it's going to be co-ordinated yet.
The last thing Bristol wants to do is jump the gun and end up with a system that won't be cross-compatible with the rest of the UK transport network.
I want my card to get me on a bus to Parkway, then on a train to Manchester, then on a tram to Eccles, then on a bus to my parent's house. I don't want umpteen different cards to pay for my journey, it just needs to be seamless and take the money out of my account.

Maybe there was a cunning plan all along: first, secure City Deal that states that the council may keep the money saved if it manages to deliver the BRT schemes below estimated costs. Then, downgrade BRT to a glorified bus route with smart/pre-board ticketing, grudgingly accept inspector's recommendation to re-route BRT2 via Cumberland Road, then spend the millions saved on other things ;)

I think it may have been an even more cunning plan to begin with, hatched in smoke-filled rooms at WEP's secret underground bunker. "The public wants better transport, but we can't even agree amongst ourselves, and we have no idea what we are doing. So why don't we pay some consultants to dress up a crap plan in fine clothing, send it to DafT, and blame the Chancellor when he stops laughing long enough to reject it? That way, we'll all get voted back in."

But the Chancellor doesn't know what he's doing either, and WEP are horrified when he gives it the nod.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, as a rule, but it is almost Hallowe'en. I thought I saw Tim Kent and the other members of WEP in Broadmead the other day, but apparently it was a zombie walk.

I hear a lot of politicians talk about this. But the reality is that we need to have a fully formalised system and national database for whatever card-based ticketing is going to be implemented *before* we buy all the equipment for our Buck Rogers style buses (or Wright Gemini or whatever).

We know it will be ITSO and not the tech that Oyster uses, we just don't know how it's going to be co-ordinated yet.
The last thing Bristol wants to do is jump the gun and end up with a system that won't be cross-compatible with the rest of the UK transport network.
I want my card to get me on a bus to Parkway, then on a train to Manchester, then on a tram to Eccles, then on a bus to my parent's house. I don't want umpteen different cards to pay for my journey, it just needs to be seamless and take the money out of my account.

Don't know about Buck Rogers, Bertyboy. Roy Rogers might be appropriate, this being the ultimate cowboy operation. Jon Rogers is right out.

Two of the plastic cards in my wallet are ITSO standard contactless payment cards. I though the idea was that these, once registered with the company, could be used for smart ticketing as an alternative to a discrete card?

I have just watched BBC local news, whose website broke the news of the latest downgrade of BRT. Not a word.

Don't know about Buck Rogers, Bertyboy. Roy Rogers might be appropriate, this being the ultimate cowboy operation. Jon Rogers is right out.
I'm not going to diss Jon Rogers too much at the moment because I had a chat with him the other day and convinced him to change his mind about Filton Airfield (strange that happens when they hear what's *actually* going on behind the scenes. He was slightly shocked to learn that the new "aerospace park" actually has 10% fewer desks than Airbus has office employees!)

Two of the plastic cards in my wallet are ITSO standard contactless payment cards. I though the idea was that these, once registered with the company, could be used for smart ticketing as an alternative to a discrete card?

The wireless protocol of the cards is the standard, but the database behind it all hasn't been fully planned yet. I imagine there will be two routes to pay for travel - with ITSO contactless debit cards, and a ITSO PAYG travel card, including precharged disposable versions. Each travel authority will need a system that can check the balance on all cards, not just ones issued for that system, and there will need to be a system of cross-charging between databases. Hopefully, there will be an off-the-shelf system before long.

I'm not going to diss Jon Rogers too much at the moment because I had a chat with him the other day and convinced him to change his mind about Filton Airfield (strange that happens when they hear what's *actually* going on behind the scenes. He was slightly shocked to learn that the new "aerospace park" actually has 10% fewer desks than Airbus has office employees!)

I had no idea he could be reasonable.Certainly doesn't seem like it in public utterance. Perhaps we could have a word about Bust Rabid Transit? The Stop BRT2 petition (https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-mayor-of-bristol-please-stop-brt2?utm_campaign=share_button_action_box&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition&utm_term=32456524) has attracted 270 signatories in 48 hours, and contains some very persuasive arguments.

Also, we do some "hot desking" in some offices, presumably what Airbus have in mind. Very disruptive at times.

The wireless protocol of the cards is the standard, but the database behind it all hasn't been fully planned yet. I imagine there will be two routes to pay for travel - with ITSO contactless debit cards, and a ITSO PAYG travel card, including precharged disposable versions. Each travel authority will need a system that can check the balance on all cards, not just ones issued for that system, and there will need to be a system of cross-charging between databases. Hopefully, there will be an off-the-shelf system before long.

Perfect sense as always, Bertyboy. Thing is I'm on my second issue of both contactless cards, and I have yet to see anywhere that accepts them.

A few more details on the struggling BRT routes.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Plans-bendy-buses-Bristol-dumped-council-bosses/story-17197328-detail/story.html

"Dutch style" cycle lanes, the Temple Circus stop moved to Temple Meads and no bendy buses. This all smacks of increasing desparation and no real idea of how to make it work.

The suggested figure of £9m to be paid back to other authorities is scaremongering. That would only apply if all the routes were scrapped. Most of us think the North Fringe-Hengrove route might work and it's BRT2 that is the real disaster.

Makes me wonder what Norman Baker, a rail supporter and Lib-Dem MP to boot, said when he came to the city to look at the BRT scheme. Surely the council must realise it's time to stop, take a deep breath and think again.

So....basically it's just been watered down even further!

Bristol's rapid transit system had gone:

Light Rail
->
Guided, high-speed busway
->
Partially Guided busway (Bus Rapid Transit)
->
Unguided busway, with super-spanky bendy buses
->
Bog standard bus with a few short stretches of bus lane

Don't worry, the stupid dedicated bus lanes will be the last thing to go. Bit by bit, the idea is falling apart. Over 80% of the network is "on-road", so it has no advantage over the buses we already had. There's no point spending money on this idea now and everyone knows this. It's just becoming a new bus route.

Bus Rapid Transit (the promise):
http://www.bristol247.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Bus-Rapid-Transit-Bristol.jpeg

Bus Rapid Transit (the reality):
http://bus-and-coach-photos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/3072.jpg

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Most of us think the North Fringe-Hengrove route might work and it's BRT2 that is the real disaster.

Don't be so sure! The north fringe route is as bonkers as BRT2. Most of the route is along a motorway with no catchment at all, which in turn requires a dedicated £14m junction. The off-road routes that would make it "rapid" through Harry Stoke and Bradley Stoke have already gone, so it is sharing with other road users through the most congested parts of the city (around UWE/Abbey Wood, Axa, Aztec West and the A38), there's been very little detail on how it serves Emmerson's Green and Downend to the east of M32 J1, it takes a bizarre branch to serve Parkway and there's already an X73 bus service which does pretty much the same route (using J1).
So heading north, BRT would be slow (city centre), fast (M32, but with no stops), slow (north fringe). The urban metro covers the catchment from the centre to Filton far better. If the system could somehow have smaller, lighter electric vehicles that could diverge at Parkway and complete the route along the wide grass verges up to Aztec West, it would be far more sensible. We could call it "light" rail.

We are looking to upgrade the cycling provision to provide much more dedicated cycling infrastructure, with Dutch-style cycle paths separated from both the road and pedestrians.

About time. Cycling has a 27% mode share in the Netherlands thanks to precisely this kind of infrastructure. A bit of paint on the tarmac to make a cycle lane is not now and has never been good enough. The Dutch are doing it right. Copy them, wholesale.

Don't be so sure! The north fringe route is as bonkers as BRT2. Most of the route is along a motorway with no catchment at all, which in turn requires a dedicated £14m junction. The off-road routes that would make it "rapid" through Harry Stoke and Bradley Stoke have already gone, so it is sharing with other road users through the most congested parts of the city (around UWE/Abbey Wood, Axa, Aztec West and the A38), there's been very little detail on how it serves Emmerson's Green and Downend to the east of M32 J1, it takes a bizarre branch to serve Parkway and there's already an X73 bus service which does pretty much the same route (using J1).
So heading north, BRT would be slow (city centre), fast (M32, but with no stops), slow (north fringe). The urban metro covers the catchment from the centre to Filton far better. If the system could somehow have smaller, lighter electric vehicles that could diverge at Parkway and complete the route along the wide grass verges up to Aztec West, it would be far more sensible. We could call it "light" rail.

So to sum up then Berty, "not impressed"! It's a fair point, the route has not really recovered from the fairly savage value engineering it got when the government wanted the costs reduced.

Bust Rabid Transit has been watered down more than a homeopathic "remedy", and will do about the same amount of good. I love the tactics here - threaten trouble if we don't let them wreck the docks, bang on about how great GBBN is and BRT will be, but don't publish the evidence, then lob in a few red herrings like pods, Dutch bike lanes, and the like. They must think we're stupid.

Presumably somebody has been to Holland, and been more impressed with their cycle lanes than they were with ours. I wonder if, whilst they were there, they noticed the trams in Amsterdam, The Hague and Utrecht? Or how they do BRT in the Netherlands, with high quality, low emission, modern articulated vehicles running on a segregated track, unhindered by other traffic? If so, they may have learned a lesson.

BRT was always going to be savagely "value-engineered". With a system that can run on ordinary roads, the expensive segregated bits can always be done away with in the name of cost, expediency, or engineering difficulty. It is much harder to do that with rail-based options, and difficulties there have to be overcome, without sacrificing the route. Today, for the first time, I looked at the detailed drawings for the route from Bristol Parkway to Temple Meads. It has some segregated bits, most notably the bridge and bus-only junction with the M32, but still has lots of the route where it gets stuck into ordinary traffic. For example, after gaining the M32 by its own junction, it will join queuing traffic for some distance before reaching the bus lane. This will inevitably cause bunching up of the buses during peak periods, with the timetable suffering from both that and the delays in making the return journeys. We can't kid ourselves that BRT will reduce traffic to the point that this won't be a problem, although I can see an increase in the already large numbers opting to head for Bristol by train from Patchway or Parkway, especially if and when the Enterprise Zone begins to kick in.

Digressing, it was good to see Boris Johnson, in town to add a much-needed note of gravitas to the mayoral bunfight. What, after all, is a circus without at least one clown? He was at the docks to help Geoff Gollop try to get enough votes to get his deposit back, and was filmed riding a bike around M Shed. I wonder if the Big Dollop told him what WEP have in store for this delightfully historic part of the City. Can't see that he would have, or BoJo would have burst a blood vessel laughing.

I risk sounding political now, but can't think of another way of criticising mayoral candidates' support of BRT. Dr Jon has published his manifesto (http://jonrogers.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12&catid=7&Itemid=196), predictably called "My Prescription for Bristol". In it he says:
As Mayor I will make sure that the planned Bust Rabid Transit scheme goes ahead and is a success.

I don't see how he could do both.

This will bring the North and the South of the city together and help spread wealth out of the centre and into the suburbs.
Not to go ahead with these plans, as some have suggested, would mean throwing away £200 million of Government money currently earmarked for Bristol. I have ruled out the use of the controversial ‘bendy bus’ as part of this scheme and will review routes in the light of the independent inquiry.

He is, of course, wrong. The DfT contribution to the Northern Fringe to Hengrove (why?) BRT route is £51.1m, out of a projected cost in the Best and Final Bid of £92.9m. For the stupid £50 million BRT2 route, DfT will give £34.5 million (BAFB figure £41.5m). The South Bristol Link attracts £27.6 million of government cash (BAFB £41.6m). That gives total government contribution to the three madcrap schemes of £113.2 million. The local authorities have to find £63m, just to qualify for the funding, plus any cost overruns. For the stupid £50 million BRT2 route, this is already an additional £9 million, even before the planning inspector has given his verdict. I haven't made these figures up - they are from the DfT's own website. (http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/local-authority-major-transport-schemes/investment-local-major-update-dec2011.pdf) According to Stop BRT2 (http://stopbrt2.org.uk/brt-funding-truth-about-£58m-funding-gap), scrapping BRT2 will save the city at least £12 million, as well as saving the docks and reserving the rail route for a future decent scheme. So far as I can see, DfT do not see the three projects as interdependent, and the other routes could still go ahead, although the South Bristol Link would be only a road.

Dr Jon's statement that he has dropped the "controversial" bendy buses suggests that he has control of this whole stupid project. How true that is, I do not know, but it hardly endears him to me. Bendy buses have advantages. They hold more people than double-deckers, and are quicker to embark and disembark. The true reason is probably cost, or the wish to make the routes attractive to an operator.

Dr Jon is likely to be good at arithmetic, so this seems to be deliberate scaremongering. It seems more and more to me that the whole BRT thing was designed to attract funding at any cost, rather than to solve any problems. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but with friends like Dr Jon, who needs enemas?

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/turn-solve-gridlock-Bristol-business-leaders/story-17274405-detail/story.html

Your turn to solve gridlock . . . Bristol business leaders offer £5,000 prize for best idea

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/turn-solve-gridlock-Bristol-business-leaders/story-17274405-detail/story.html

Your turn to solve gridlock . . . Bristol business leaders offer £5,000 prize for best idea

I've suggested scrapping the stupid £50 million BRT2 route, and sacking Tim Kent. I haven't heard back yet, but I'm optimistic.

I am even more optimistic after reading about Transport Minister Patrick McLoughlin's visit to Bristol, reported in todays Evening Post (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Transport-minister-m-looking-forward-working/story-17300975-detail/story.html)
Transport minister: "I'm looking forward to working with Bristol mayor"

Transport minister Patrick McLoughlin was in Bristol today for David Cameron's Cabinet meeting - and afterwards met bosses from First Great Western and Network Rail at Temple Meads station.

The minister said that he is looking forward to working with the city’s first elected mayor.

He went on to say that the problems surrounding the tendering process for the Great Western franchise should be ironed out by the end of the year.

Mr McLoughlin said: “This is a fantastic facility and a fantastic station and there has been a big increase in demand for rail travel in recent years. It is fantastic that such a great city as Bristol is going to get a great city to match its aspirations.”

The minister said he saw the new mayor as a vital role for the city in terms of transport and business.

He said: “It will be a great help for me to be able to speak to one individual voice in the city. The elected may will be one clear single voice that we will be able to speak to directly.

“The mayor will be a major voice for Bristol. When I want to speak to someone about transport I can go directly to Boris and hopefully it will work the same way in Bristol.”

The city has been awarded £130 million to help pay for a new Rapid Transit System but some of the of the candidates have voiced objections to the scheme.

However, Mr McLoughlin is said he is willing to talk directly to the new mayor on a number of issues. He did not rule out moving the cash to another scheme but added that he was keen to work with the new mayor as soon as the election has been settled.

The row over the West Coast Mainline franchise has left a cloud of uncertainty hanging over the bidding to run train services between London and Bristol.

The bidding process has been put on hold after the Government was forced to admit it had made serious mistakes in the process.

Mr McLoughlin said: “We are holding a number of inquiries which are due to report by the end of the month. The hope is that once we have the findings then we will be able to continue in the bidding process.

“At the same time we want to make sure that Bristol and the south West will continue to get the train service it deserves.”

The emphasis is mine. Assuming the minister was actually asked if the money was movable, he has killed off the last desperate excuse offered by BRT's few supporters for not messing with the project.

BoyamIjealous approves! Drinks!

Well, that's good! We can put the money towards a tram system instead of BRT!

I really really like to believe, but just can't. But hey, there's three more days for someone to claim they would "look very hard" at converting the schemes to light rail, if elected.

Gary Hopkins claimed the other day that the (plausible) candidates that had expressed doubts about the BRT had been spoken to and convinced that pulling the plans would wreck havoc for the relationship with the other councils.

But one can always hope, right?

One can always hope, indeed. Gary Hopkins views can be taken with a pinch of salt, IMHO. I think a lot of the dross that has been coming out of the council cabinet has been wounded pride at the tough time their favourite scheme is getting. Had they consulted properly, of course, they would not have been surprised.

Converting the whole scheme to light rail is, of course, unlikely to be easy. It's not as easy as just drawing a pair of tracks down the original route plans. Certainly, the Ashton Vale route is absolutely perfect for rail, and could be done quickly. Until Ashton Gate is reopen, the point would be limited, just as the point of BRT2 is limited. With the railway reopened, it could be used either as the quickest route into the centre, or even for tram-train operations.

The obvious thing to do for my money is to get the rail improvements in place first, see what difference that makes to commuting habits, then react with changes to bus routes. The problem with that is that the mayor's first term will end before any of the rail improvements currently planned are finished. The traffic problems are with us now, and something needs to be done. But short term measures, which is what BRT is, simply will not work.

South Glos especially will feel aggrieved when BRT is scrapped. That will be helped if there is a better plan in place. They bristled with rage when BCC scrapped the planned waste incinerator, but were mollified when the new one, about to start generating electricity, was started. They are not fools. I am convinced that a few small scale improvements, especially running a bus from S Glos via the M32 with limited stops, but not the £13 million bus only junction, will achieve most of what the BRT northern fringe route would have achieved, at a fraction of the price, and with none of the destruction.

David Cameron has even agreed to an ITA:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/David-Cameron-ll-help-drive-Bristol-s-congestion/story-17307969-detail/story.html

Obviously what we were expecting at some point, but it's nice to hear someone confirm it.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/pound-100-million-promised-Temple-Meads-revamp/story-17309131-detail/story.html

Surprise Surprise, irksome Elfan ap Rees rears his dreary head again:

Edit: http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Council-opposes-independent-transport-authority/story-17317334-detail/story.html
Council opposes independent transport authority
A LEADING North Somerset councillor has made it clear the council opposes the idea of setting up an independent transport authority to sort out traffic congestion in the Bristol area.

Deputy leader Elfan ap Rees, who is the council's transport leader, said a new body to take control of transport was "untenable".

He told The Post: "The whole ITA argument is completely on the wrong lines.

"The way for us to go forward is to continue working in partnership with the other local authorities to get what is best for the region.

"We do not need an outside body, another bureaucracy, in which the local authorities do not have any control."

The Prime Minister revealed in an exclusive interview with The Post yesterday that he would be happy to listen to Bristol's new mayor about sorting out the region's transport issues.

But he said the mayor would need the support of the neighbouring local councils before any proposals were put to him.

This was because transport issues went beyond the city boundary.

Most, if not all the mayoral candidates agree that the best way to solve the daily traffic chaos in Bristol is to set up an ITA which would have the power to take control of public transport services including buses.

It would also be able to create an integrated transport network so we can use buses, trains and ferries more easily.

South Gloucestershire Tory transport spokesman Brian Allinson has told The Post that what mattered was a cross-boundary partnership which was strengthened in such a way that it did not compromise accountability, create bureaucracy or add a further cost to council tax payers.




"South Gloucestershire Tory transport spokesman Brian Allinson has told The Post that what mattered was a cross-boundary partnership which was strengthened in such a way that it did not compromise accountability, create bureaucracy or add a further cost to council tax payers."


AKA an Independent Transport Authority :|

Linky....
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Council-opposes-independent-transport-authority/story-17317334-detail/story.html

Presumably Brian Allinson would like more joined-up transport planning, like his £1.3m Stoke Gifford park & ride, which nobody ever uses?

Right, Mayor George it is! I hope to see the stupid £50 million BRT2 route scrapped on Monday, with the rest of BRT converted to rail on Tuesday. Arena Wednesday. But ITA before the weekend is out. Why are they bothered out in the sticks? What do they have to lose? I would think few people travel from SG, BANES or BCC to North Somerset to work. Is MoD Abbey Wood in SG or Bristol? Is there an advantage to either depending on which side of the line it lies upon? What about BAe / Airbus /Rolls Royce? Where do the workers come from, how do they get there, what does it cost the councils, what does it make for the councils? Is there a reason why we don't know?

A lot of people go to Bristol from SG, BANES, and NS every day to work. A lot go from BANES to Abbey Wood. A lot travel within those areas. I cannot see the sense in objecting to an ITA by any of them, except that the role model locally is Avon County, hated, yet long dead and forgotten by all bar the Royal Mail.

ITA now! Red Trousers now! Stop BRT2 .... yesterday!

I wonder what the chances are that Jon Rogers will end up in the cabinet, responsible for Transport ? ;)

A lot of people go to Bristol from SG, BANES, and NS every day to work. A lot go from BANES to Abbey Wood. A lot travel within those areas. I cannot see the sense in objecting to an ITA by any of them, except that the role model locally is Avon County, hated, yet long dead and forgotten by all bar the Royal Mail.


I imagine that the main unspoken objection, is that some councillors will go from being the big transport cog in their authority, to a much smaller one in a larger organisation.

The Royal Commission that reported on local government reorganisation in 1970, wanted Avon to be a single tier authority. The Heath government however opted for the two tier mess we remember. As a unit Avon actually made a lot of sense. 96% of the working population who lived within its boundaries also worked within them.

I wonder what the chances are that Jon Rogers will end up in the cabinet, responsible for Transport ? ;)

Somewhere between zero and nil. :)

I imagine that the main unspoken objection, is that some councillors will go from being the big transport cog in their authority, to a much smaller one in a larger organisation.

The Royal Commission that reported on local government reorganisation in 1970, wanted Avon to be a single tier authority. The Heath government however opted for the two tier mess we remember. As a unit Avon actually made a lot of sense. 96% of the working population who lived within its boundaries also worked within them.

Avon's biggest problem was the over-arching nature of the beast. Because it did so many things - education, transport, social services etc - it did none of them very well. Most of these functions were transferred from the other local authorities, along with the money, doubtless causing resentment. The councils kept staff for some of the functions, causing duplication. Handing back the functions was just as bad. An ITA would be Avon, but for transport only, and would make a lot of sense.

I think you are spot on with the reasons for the objections to an ITA. The "cabinet" system of running councils is to blame, for making one person too important. Not that the Mayor isn't one important person, but delegating responsibility in the way it has been done has not improved matters. So much money has been spent in bus lanes, yet with few if any extra services. This was always obvious to most of us, yet it happened anyway.

First policy to be implimented (transport-related): Sunday parking charges have been scrapped by Fergie with immediate effect.

I'm not going to diss Jon Rogers too much at the moment because I had a chat with him the other day and convinced him to change his mind about Filton Airfield.

Diss all you want now, Bertyboy! The man is history, as will be his madcrap schemes soon.

Diss all you want now, Bertyboy! The man is history, as will be his madcrap schemes soon.

You assume he won't be given the cabinet position for transport! :D

According to Kerry McCarthy here; https://twitter.com/KerryMP/status/271313702924468224

The rail minister Simon Burns has agreed today to look at the business case for the Henbury Loop as part of phase 2.

Sadly, it looks like the Bristol Ferry Boat company has now gone bust. I still think a ferry route around Bristol could work but:

1) It needs integrated ticketing that works on bus, train and ferry and not even London has that (you get a discount in the ferry with a travel/oystercard but it's not included in the zone)

2) It needs to be extended out along the Feeder canal towards St Annes - an area which isn't served very well by buses anyway (at least not buses that go directly to the Centre).

However, as the new Mayor was actually a director in the Bristol Ferryboat Company he presumably knows all about it and how difficult it is to get this to work. So, he may decide it's best to not push this.

According to Kerry McCarthy here; https://twitter.com/KerryMP/status/271313702924468224

The rail minister Simon Burns has agreed today to look at the business case for the Henbury Loop as part of phase 2.

I wonder how justifiable that is at the moment? It's single line in part of the uphill cuttings, and BPC have bagged quite a lot of the capacity for when the DSCT opens (with v. slow freight trains). You'd have to triple-track it to avoid conflicting movements, and that would be massively expensive.

I wonder how justifiable that is at the moment? It's single line in part of the uphill cuttings, and BPC have bagged quite a lot of the capacity for when the DSCT opens (with v. slow freight trains). You'd have to triple-track it to avoid conflicting movements, and that would be massively expensive.

How long can BPC hold on to their claim on capacity? There is no sign of a start for the DSCT anytime soon.

How long can BPC hold on to their claim on capacity? There is no sign of a start for the DSCT anytime soon.

Well, they have the planning consent. BPC are saying that when they see signs of a global recovery, they will start building work and it will take 3 years to complete. Freight is, of course, already the main user of the Hallen Loop, and they had to move to night-only when they were building the new platform at Abbey Wood, to allow 2tph (passenger) between Parkway and BTM. That's about all you can get on a clear line at the moment (because of the single-track sections at Avonmouth and the cutting at Filton).
Either it will be an infrequent service to Henbury OR it will cost some serious money to allow mixed working. It might actually be cheaper to build a new line that runs closer to Cribbs.

The story has hit the Evening Post. (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Huge-step-forward-rail-links/story-17389026-detail/story.html)
'Huge step forward' for rail links

AN MP has hailed a "massive step forward" for Bristol's rail links after ministers agreed to consider long-awaited improvements.

The Department for Transport will carry out a feasibility study into the benefits and costs of having a full Henbury Loop line – part of an improved Bristol Metro local rail network – rather than the spur currently proposed. It could lead to the Henbury Loop being included in the new Great Western franchise, which is currently on hold.

Yesterday a cross-party group of Bristol MPs met rail minister Simon Burns to call for extra improvements to be included when the line is put out to tender following a delay caused by the collapse of the West Coast Mainline deal.

Speaking afterwards, Bristol North West MP Charlotte Leslie, who organised the meeting, said: "We managed to get a pledge from him that the department would look into the feasibility of the Henbury Loop.

"It is real progress, and far more than I thought would come out of the meeting. It is potential game-changer for the Bristol Metro.

"It's not a promise that it will happen, but it's a massive step forward from where we were before."

I share Bertboy's reservations over capacity, given the DSCT traffic when it happens, but if the hundreds of homes planned for the airfield at Filton come to fruition, a station could be a condition of any planning permission.

Hopefully, the last rites for BRT will not be long coming. Once mayoral antipathy finds an outlet for expression, it could be done for. The Cambridge Guided Bus hit the news again yesterday, with the bus equivalent of a derailment - see the BBC website. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-20427214)

Charlotte Leslie seems to be a firm fan of rail - she has organised meetings of local MPs, is a member of Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways (http://www.fosbr.org.uk/), and was on the train to Portbury in September. I don't know what clout she has with the Government, but having her on board certainly won't hurt. There is cross-party support for rail improvements here.

Just scrapping BRT won't do, though. There are better ways, and one of them will have to happen, hopefully with light rail. A real transport hub on Plot 6 is more or less essential, and should cause a complete review of all bus routes, starting from scratch. Ticketing needs to be sorted as a matter of urgency - that probably causes more of the delays on buses than any other thing.

The story has hit the Evening Post. (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Huge-step-forward-rail-links/story-17389026-detail/story.html)


I share Bertboy's reservations over capacity, given the DSCT traffic when it happens, but if the hundreds of homes planned for the airfield at Filton come to fruition, a station could be a condition of any planning permission.

Which is presumably why the Tories are pushing for this...

Now Labour has reversed its decision to stay out of Ferguson's cabinet it looks as if Mark Bradshaw will be in charge of transport until May.