The new thread for folks to post articles and renderings and commentary about development in and around Milwaukee...




The link to the old thread in the SSC Archive...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=806







***IDEA***

It would be great if a local would create a reply within this thread featuring a synopsis of each project in development (u/c, approved, proposed, etc), with the basic info on the project, and then I will edit that information into this initial post...PM me if you want this done, as I have numerous threads like this all over SSC that I'm tending to. A reminder would be great. :)

You can reference the Tampa Development News thread for an example to serve as a guide (but yours can be different)...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=115507

What About Milwaukee?

September 12th, 2002 - November 26, 2004

R.I.P. :cry:





Seriously, why not keep the "What About Milwaukee?" thread going? I would've liked to see it hit 2,000 posts.

well hey, at least your the first person to post on this thread...which hopefully will last a long time too

Jasonhouse mentioned on another recently closed long thread that moderators must now close threads when they reach 500 posts. Sounds like it may have something to do with conserving webspace/preventing a drain on the servers.

Markitect, I have a couple questions..
I think you mentioned earlier that Pier Wisconsin is going to have an aquarium. Is it going to be a big one that has many aquatic species from around the world like shed..or is it going to boast only WI native species?

Do you have any more renderings of the public art thats going to be put in Vetrans Park next spring. I think its called Wind Leaves..because the metal will move in the wind...

Finally, I think I asked this before the other thread got taken down...Do you have any renderings or information on the large building going up near Froedert? I can see it all the way from 91st/Swan..up near Burleigh..its pretty huge. Thanks

Markitect, I have a couple questions..
I think you mentioned earlier that Pier Wisconsin is going to have an aquarium. Is it going to be a big one that has many aquatic species from around the world like shed..or is it going to boast only WI native species?

Pier Wisconsin's Great Lakes Aquatarium will have freshwater and saltwater aquariums--probably with a bigger emphasis on Great Lakes/freshwater species.

Do you have any more renderings of the public art thats going to be put in Vetrans Park next spring. I think its called Wind Leaves..because the metal will move in the wind...

All I've seen of that art installation is what you saw in the newspaper the other week.

Finally, I think I asked this before the other thread got taken down...Do you have any renderings or information on the large building going up near Froedert? I can see it all the way from 91st/Swan..up near Burleigh..its pretty huge.

That sounds like it might be the new GE Healthcare headquarters going up on the County Grounds in Wauwatosa. I haven't been out there recently, so that's just a guess. Search the archives at jsonline.com...there were renderings along with an article last spring.

cool, ive been waiting for a nice aquarium here. thanks markitect

Jasonhouse mentioned on another recently closed long thread that moderators must now close threads when they reach 500 posts. Sounds like it may have something to do with conserving webspace/preventing a drain on the servers.

That's exactly it, Jan wants to limit threads to 500 posts to help server performance. There's not much we can do, I hate to see the "What About Milwaukee" thread go too. It's in the archive now so it'll still be available for easy access to read.

Well I think I'll post this post here to see if it's still here 2 years from now. :)

Any new projects on the way for Milwaukee. Seems like development is slowing down a bit.

Any new projects on the way for Milwaukee. Seems like development is slowing down a bit.

I'm just going to throw out a bunch that I know off the top of my head that are in the pipeline. Maybe folks could add to this list with what they know:

- Redevelopment of the entire block surrounded by Fond Du Lac, North Ave. and Garfield. New Covenant housing (?)

- Continued 3rd Ward residential -- harborfront, Jefferson Block, a new mandel project (name?)

- Kilbourn Tower and U Club Tower - under const.

- Pier Wisconsin - under const.

-Pabst City - last I've heard they've pulled their demo permits and have done utilty work.

- Milwaukee Public Market - under construction

- West End Menomonee Valley - land has been cleaned up (MJS 11-29) and will be available for sale early Spring ... Canal street extension, Chimney park and Airline Yards park should be done by end 2005.

- Harley Davidson museum - City is in the process of moving DPW facility to the Tower Autmoitive site on the NW side.

- New construction of Gateway Center on 34th and North Avenue -- North Avenue CDC.

- King Commons on King and Hadley - under construction (MLK Econ. Development Corp.)

- New Sheraton hotel on 4th & Wisco -- soon to start construction, unexpected environmental issues ..

What else?

- The Marquette Interchange Project - Preliminary work underway

Wind Leaves!!!!!-soon I hope, Brady St. Bridge...Granville Station (close to my crib on the NW side :sleepy: )

What would everyone like to see go into Park East?

Ok, it is a bummer that the old thread had to be closed, but if was taking up too much server space, that is ok. But can i request that this thread be renamed "What About Milwaukee". That is what it has been called since the beginning of time, and i like the name. It set it apart from the countless other development threads. Please? Is nothing sacred??? :)

What would everyone like to see go into Park East?

I would like to see a geyser that spits out nothing but $100 bills every ten minutes in the Park East corridor.

Wouldn't we all...:)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ON NOVEMBER 28, 2004
For more information contact: Andrea Rowe, DCD Communications Manager, 414.286.8580


City completes largest environmental clean up in history

Menomonee Valley site ready for business, recreation

Mayor Tom Barrett and Department of City Development Commissioner Rocky Marcoux announced today the successful completion of the city’s largest environmental clean up project. The project remediated environmental problems at a 140-acre site, just east of Miller Park in the Menomonee Valley. The property is being redeveloped as a new business park and recreation area.

Full article @ http://www.mkedcd.org/news/2004/MRVcleanup.html

Ok, it is a bummer that the old thread had to be closed, but if was taking up too much server space, that is ok. But can i request that this thread be renamed "What About Milwaukee". That is what it has been called since the beginning of time, and i like the name. It set it apart from the countless other development threads. Please? Is nothing sacred??? :)
I agree and I think we need to start flooding Jan's mail bag with this request.

I am in love with the plan for the West End of the Valley. This is what urban redevelopment is all about ... not just high end condos, but good-paying jobs, greenspace, and a unique sense of place. Hell yeah!

I wonder what will happen with the former stockyards site now that they've gone. I know Men. Valley Partners got the site.... that could end up being something interesting. The Potowatomi have talked for years about doing a hotel down in the Valley to go along with their casino. The stockyards site I think fronts water on the south end. But is right next to Empak, who pack meat. So maybe something other than industrial wouldn't work.

that park looked pretty cool in the Shepard Express article earlier this year. Are they still gonna leave the chimenys up too?

Found a cool site for info and maps on newer planned Beerline B projects. Also check other links for more renderings.

http://www.mkedcd.org/projects/blb/blbdev.html

Also, anyone know any information on this project? I was wondering if its really being built.
http://www.mkedcd.org/projects/blb/images/UnionPoint.jpg
All I found was this:

Union Point
Union Point is situated along Humboldt between Commerce Street and Riverboat Road. This project is the first mixed use building within the Beerline "B" Neighborhood. The development includes 71 units and over 11,000 square feet of retail space.
Developer: Wescott Real Estate

Found a cool site for info and maps on newer planned Beerline B projects. Also check other links for more renderings.

http://www.mkedcd.org/projects/blb/blbdev.html

Also, anyone know any information on this project? I was wondering if its really being built.
http://www.mkedcd.org/projects/blb/images/UnionPoint.jpg
All I found was this:

Union Point
Union Point is situated along Humboldt between Commerce Street and Riverboat Road. This project is the first mixed use building within the Beerline "B" Neighborhood. The development includes 71 units and over 11,000 square feet of retail space.
Developer: Wescott Real Estate


Yep, they're breaking ground on December 10 at 3 pm. Finally some retail presence on the beerline!!

Anyone have any updates on "Pabstcity"?

My family recently saw something on the news about it in Madison which I thought was odd. Just wondering if there has been any further developments.

I was wondering if anyone knows if the Airport Amtrak station is open yet?

Pabst City:

They've got their permits to demolish the non-historical structures, including the giant tower with the old Pabst-sign frame atop. So far nothing has happened, I think because DOT is using the site as a staging area for work happening on the Marquette interchange.

The Pabst City developers requested a $70 million TIF which is way above and beyond any previous TIF done in the City. Mayor and council essentially scoffed at the size of the TIF, which sets them back a ways.

Right now the developers are scaling back the plans, at least for the initial phase, since they won't get such a huge assistance from the City in the form of a TIF.

I beleive what they will axe will be a lot of the residential that was in their initial plan, keeping the Hoffbrau house, Gameworks, and the movie theater. That and a few more restaraunts and bars should make a pretty nifty entertainment area.

I have my own concerns about Pabst City, maybe I should start a Pabst City thread.



Amtrak Station:

Under construction, should open in the next few months.

Anyone have any updates on "Pabstcity"?

My family recently saw something on the news about it in Madison which I thought was odd. Just wondering if there has been any further developments.

PabstCity developlers are supposed to be scaling back their proposal a bit because they haven't been able to secure all the financing they need to get the project going. The $75 million tax incremental financing the developers were asking from the City was too steep a price--such a large amount would take away from the money the City could devote to other redevelopment projects that use TIFs. In other words, the City wisely decided they didn't want to put too many eggs in one basket. PabstCity developers have been looking elsewhere for funds, as well. And I haven't heard much about their legal disputes lately, either (the Pabst trademark infingement lawsuit, and the dispute between all of the partners involved in the project). Look through the archived "What About Milwaukee?" thread for all the details on that stuff.


I was wondering if anyone knows if the Airport Amtrak station is open yet?

The opening was pushed back from November 15 to the end of Decemeber/early January.

The new Airport station is however listed on the Hiawatha Schedule from November 2004. In case you were wondering, it will affect train times by 3 minutes :)

I've been following the development of pabstcity, I just thought to be on the news they would have had some newer developments with the project...

I guess that's Madison news for you

Can anyone post any recent photos of the Kilbourn tower progress? I'm curious to see if it has any impact on the Milwaukee panorama and how far it is from completion...or if any of you would kindly direct me to a thread with info, pics, etc.

http://img20.exs.cx/img20/1779/87-P1010136.jpg
taken two days ago from Museum

Nice picture Redd

thanks :)

another from Vetrans Park
http://img21.exs.cx/img21/1453/63P1010121.jpg

That view makes the tower look monsterous, I love it. Crazy how you can't see the rest of the skyline from that view though.

hey milwaukee people..check out my photo tour on the cityscape photo page..thanks :)

This city site has the listings of the new, under construction, planned, and proposed residential projects for downtown Milwaukee. Great Resource

http://www.mkedcd.org/downtown/pdfs/Housing.pdf

The one thing our city is lacking right now is that signature tower. 50-60 stories. Any word if a project of this nature is on the horizon or are we stuck with what we got.

Until there is actual market demand for something taller than what we have, we won't be getting anything taller than what we have. It's simple economics.

Double post.

The Ovation Plaza is the only major office tower that's even being talked about right now. It would be built on the site of the Marcus Center's parking structure on Water Street. Something will be built there eventually, but until the office market picks up ain't nothing happening there. The office market in Downtown Mil is soft to say the least.

When will there be the demand for a new office tower in Downtown Milw? The abundance of cheap land in the suburbs coupled with the relative ease of driving around our metropolis leads me to believe that most significant office development will continue to take place in the suburbs for the forseeable future.

The Ovation Plaza is the only major office tower that's even being talked about right now.

what about that 24 story Broadway-Wisconsin Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=176955) proposal? is that one completely dead now, or still just on the back-burner? if i recall correctly, i believe it was proposed to be a mixed-use tower with commerical office space and condos.

damn them for getting rid of the What about Milwaukee thread....now St. Louis and Indy are vying to be king thread in this forum.

Whens that Market downtown gonna get finished, and what kinds of stuff are they going to have there? I assume weird fruits and nuts for the cool people who cant be seen shopping at Pick n Save or JewelOsco. I hope they get a good seafood stand there. Maybe then Ill move out of my Northw---err Granville (trying to sound cool to live in an area with a name) enclave and find a place in the Third Ward. Thats if I could afford to live in such a trendy area.

btw--------I think both those developments are dead....... :badnews:
if that is a good enough analogy......maybe a bit too graphic

what about that 24 story Broadway-Wisconsin Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=176955) proposal? is that one completely dead now, or still just on the back-burner? if i recall correctly, i believe it was proposed to be a mixed-use tower with commerical office space and condos.

I'm thinking that tower proposal is pretty much dead. Aside from the soft office market in Milwaukee (i.e. no major tenants for the building), the site is presently occupied by some shabby-looking, yet historically significant buildings. Nothing's been in the news about it since it was proposed.


Whens that Market downtown gonna get finished, and what kinds of stuff are they going to have there? I assume weird fruits and nuts for the cool people who cant be seen shopping at Pick n Save or JewelOsco. I hope they get a good seafood stand there.

The Public Market going up in the Third Ward will be open next year. Vendors there (mostly local farmers and small business owners) will be selling fresh stuff on a daily basis (meat, poultry, fruits, veggies, fish, flowers, etc.), so it'll be quite a different retail environment than the typical warehouse supermarket chain.

The Milwaukee Public Market will be more than a place to get food, it will be a temple of food culture. There will be a demonstration kitchen where the City's top chefs will prepare meals and do instructional sessions, using fresh ingredients that day from the market. There will also be kitchen incubators for those looking to start a food business but who don't have the necessary funds for a restaurant or kitchen space. In this sense the market will further develop Milwaukee's restaurant scene by tapping into the potential food entrepreneur pool in this City.

I heard all of this straight from the mouth of the lead developer of the project.

This place is going to kick ass.

With all of the residential development downtown, don't you think it would draw the suburban office space back into the city. There used to be something said about having a downtown address for your office. Milwaukee wants to promote itself as a business center it has to develope a business center.

that place sounds great. Something we really need in this city is a bigger boost to our already great food scene. I might have to check it out if they have different demonstrations etc... :)

Found some interesting info in the Milwaukee Biz Journal. Economic job growth rates were ranked out 226 U.S. metropolitan areas.

Milwaukee/Racine stats:
Percentage growth--ranked 26 out of 226
Raw growth [actual numbers]--ranked 10 of 226

Highlights from the article worth noting:
The employment picture continues to brighten in a wide range of U.S. metropolitan areas, but many other metros are still waiting for the economic recovery.

"U.S. employment totaled 131.9 million jobs as 2004's third quarter drew to a close. The increase was 1.4 percent above the same period in 2003"....

"...Eastern Great Lakes

Times are harder in the Eastern Great Lakes than anywhere else in America. Its 27 markets have collectively lost 56,800 jobs since September 2003. New England is the only other section to register a net loss, just 600 jobs.

The epicenter of decline is Detroit, which has seen 30,200 jobs slip away, easily the worst figure in the nation. Other large drops have occurred in Lansing, Mich. (down 11,700), Saginaw, Mich. (down 7,800), and Indianapolis (down 7,200)

Western Great Lakes

This section may be doing well in comparison to its eastern neighbor, but it's nothing special in national terms. The 20 markets in the Western Great Lakes have a job-growth rate of just 0.6 percent.

Leading the way are five Wisconsin metros with gains of 2.2 percent or better, headed by Sheboygan at 3.5 percent. Milwaukee and Minneapolis-St. Paul are the pacesetters in raw numbers, adding 21,500 and 11,100 jobs, respectively...."

December 6th, 2004
click for link to article: http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/specials/jobs2004/story1.html
click on the link to the spreadsheet to check out rankings

In a November 26th biz journal article, there was discussion on the possible development of high-rises in third ward. Developers were discussing this as very large possibility.

Highlights from the article:The next phase of development could involve high-rise condominiums. Milwaukee city planners are preparing new building standards for the 3rd Ward that will accommodate developers who have discussed, with city officials and the Historic Third Ward Business Improvement District, constructing high-rises on empty lots in the district, said Mike Maierle, a planner with the Department of City Development.

Two locations most likely to see high-rise buildings include one of the parking lots owned by the Italian Community Center near the Summerfest grounds and a Parking Systems Inc. lot at the corner of East St. Paul Avenue and North Water Street, Maierle said. To date, no plans for a high-rise condo have been submitted to the city, however.

Here's my question to everyone. Do you see high-rises in third ward as being beneficial to the neighborhood? If so, where would be a good location to develop large residential towers?

Personally I think that the designs on those towers would have to be very killer for me to support this. At the same time, with the desire for residential growing so much in the area, why not build the residential higher? I wonder though if the infrastructure of the area could handle the traffic.

What are everyones thoughts on this?

Great article though, refreshing to hear developers discuss possibilties in such a matter-of-fact way.
Link to the article: click here (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/11/29/story2.html)

In a November 26th biz journal article, there was discussion on the possible development of high-rises in third ward. Developers were discussing this as very large possibility.

Personally I think that the designs on those towers would have to be very killer for me to support this. At the same time, with the desire for residential growing so much in the area, why not build the residential higher? I wonder though if the infrastructure of the area could handle the traffic.

What are everyones thoughts on this?


The Third Ward area most certainly could handle any increases in traffic. Most of the existing streets in the areas being talked about are overbuilt and underutilized at their current capacities anyway. And the street grid would likely be extended across the ICC land to link up with the Summerfest Grounds on the east, assuming the ICC decides to put its land up for development (which they have indeed considered before).

Also keep in mind, the media tends to have a very liberal defintion of "high rise." They may be referring to 30+ story towers, or an 8-story building.

I personally think it would look out of place if they put something that looked like University Club in that area. I say leave the "futuristic" buildings line north part of the lake. If they do build one in the 3rd Ward, it should be a cool looking new, yet rustic looking tower that is more building than glass.

I have a question as well. Are there any more towers going to be going up on Lincoln Memorial Drive near the big clump they have now. This is just personal opinion, but that stretch (especially around the biggest one) reminds me of Honolulu for some reason.

In lincoln memorial or prospect?

Prospect, it think the building is called Landmark on the Lake...or something of that nature.

I personally think it would look out of place if they put something that looked like University Club in that area. I say leave the "futuristic" buildings line north part of the lake. If they do build one in the 3rd Ward, it should be a cool looking new, yet rustic looking tower that is more building than glass.

Any new buildings, whether they're towers or low-rises, should absolutely not be built to look rustic or have an "old" appearance. Buildings should be designed for the era in which they are designed--not to look cutesy. Architect, developers, and planners in Milwaukee have finally gotten this message, as can be seen in some of the recent projects going up and others on the drawing board. It's perfectly fine to have a new or "futuristic" building go up near to an authentic "old" building. In fact, it's perfectly natural--that's how architecture and cities evolve.

I have a question as well. Are there any more towers going to be going up on Lincoln Memorial Drive near the big clump they have now. This is just personal opinion, but that stretch (especially around the biggest one) reminds me of Honolulu for some reason.

Private development on Lincoln Memorial Drive, at the bottom of the bluff, is prohibited by State Law. At the top of the bluff, however, along Prospect Avenue, there will eventually be some new high-rises. Some developers have intentions of putting up some more towers there in the future (specifically, on the site next to Landmark on the Lake), but there aren't any official plans yet. Baiscally they're sitting on the land, waiting for the right time--their plates are full right now, so to speak.

Oh I know what you mean Markitect...i was thinking something like Miller Parks design. I just dont wanna see some gleaming white tower in the middle of an area that it doesnt idenify with in any way--save those for downtown or the area you were talking about. I wanna see some cool looking tower in this area that is unique--not some huge glass structure that can be found in any other large city.

The retro/post-modernist architectural styling of Miller Park definitiely not unique at all. It's a very common style seen not only in ballparks (pretty much all of the new stadoiums built in the past 10-15 years has had, or will have, a retro style), but it can be found in everyday buildings throughout cities everywhere. There are tons of examples in Milwaukee alone, of such cutesy, retro, fake-historic buildings.

Modern, glassy, sleek buildings can be unique. Allowing high-rises in the Third Ward, with modern styles, doesn't mean wer'e going to get a bunch of Kilbourn Tower rip-offs.

awww cmon how can you not love the home of our perennial winners. I like it personally. It looks much better than most stadiums--you have to agree with me on that Markitect. Miller Park and Safeco in Seattle are the best domed stadiums in the U.S.--and second fiddle to Skydome in Canada. I think its more unique...but then again..it does dwell too much on the past. I agree with you on that. Whats your take on the Midwest Express Center--which kinda looks like Miller Park. I know they are all rip offs of the greatest building in Milwaukee-City Hall, but they do look better than lifeless glass monstrosities such as The Federal Building--which would only fit in some futuristic city in an 80's movie.

My take on the Midwest Airlines Center's architectural styling is the same for Miller Park:

They are both certainly better looking aesthetically than their predecessors, but they are architecturally dishonest because they're turn-of-the-21st-century buildings with cartoony architectural details meant to mimic authentic turn-of-the-20th-century buildings tacked onto them.

I don't exactly like the aesthetics of the big blue Reuss Federal Building, but at least it's design is honest to the era in which is was designed. It's not necessarily the materials (glass and steel) that make it bad, it's the way the building responds to the street/city(dark windows, anonymous-looking, turns itself inward) that's the problem. Just look at Kilbourn Tower--same basic materials as the Fed Building--but it's designed to fit in with the city much better. We can have other buildings, even in the Third Ward, that do that just as well, without loking like carbon copies of each other, or like some other buildings in another city.

I agree with you on Kilbourn tower....it already looks good in that blank part of the skyline. I remember reading on this site before I was a member that they are building U.C. tower right next to it. I drove by the other day--they are only seperated by a fence! How close are they going to be? Do you have any renderings of the towers together..because personally...I think both buildings will lose their beautiful effect--especially U.C. It will make the skyline look a little bigger though..which is a plus to some, however I was always content with the skyline. I doubt we will ever get something taller than U.S Bank unless the ecnomy picks up.

I remember reading on this site before I was a member that they are building U.C. tower right next to it. I drove by the other day--they are only seperated by a fence! How close are they going to be? Do you have any renderings of the towers together..because personally...I think both buildings will lose their beautiful effect--especially U.C.

The towers will be 10 feet apart at their bases, and about 25 feet apart at their shafts.

Here's a schematic section drawing showing the relationship between the two. The tower on the left is University Club Tower; on the right is Kilbourn Tower.

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/641/120section_north_south.jpg

so they are going to be right next to each other.....If feel sorry for the people that are paying 1 million dollars for a condo with a view of the side of a building. Then again I dont feel sorry for a person that can afford a house like that...because I would love to be able to have a place in that beautiful building. I cant even afford ghetto apartments around the crib. Are you an architect Markitect ........your name seems to say so, however you are very knowledgeable about such things? If so...can you tell what Architectual Tech does, because they have a program at MATC and was wondering what they do.

Holy Crap, WAM is gone. I am WAY late to the party this time.

They done gone'n killed my BABY! Woe! WOE!!


So everyone pretty much knows what I think of the UCT-KT situation, and I'll spare you my pissing and moaning this time around. But I do want to comment on the topic of modern architecture in the Third Ward. I'm with Marky-Mark on this one. Faux-history only cheapens the actual historic value of the existing buildings in the area. Miller Park and The Midwest Airlines Center are nice and all (MP is an interesting to the skyline when heading north on I-94) but innovative roofs aside, they're total kitsch. Abrasively contextual, if you will. And Miller Park isn't really contextual at all. (I'd imagine that it's hard to find context in a lake of freaking concrete, but whatever.) I can see the use of materials like brick and stone in new Third Ward buildings, as long as the buildings aren't trying to look like they've been around as long as their neighbors. There's a new building right along the river that fits in very well while still looking very modern. I have no name, and I can't really describe it, but you'd know it if you saw it. (Markitect can probably tell you the name and tell you how long construction took and how many bricks were used in its facade.)

lol.

Yes, it seems it seems you both have a point about the whole architecture/rustic topic. Im guessing you are studying this field, whereas I am just trying to learn about such things. Are they actually considering building a large tower in the 3rd ward? Im pretty sure people will buy it out, with the huge condo craze going on. When is this building going to be completed? Personally, i think this is one of the coolest looking developments in the area.
http://img116.exs.cx/img116/1579/marine1big0eb.jpg

http://img116.exs.cx/img116/8272/marine3big9nc.jpg

Markitect and CG5 summed up my thoughts exactly.

Often it seems plans focus too much on the architectual context of the surrounding instead of the architectual significance the design has in reference to the period. [both of which should be held to high regard]

The only time I enjoy seeing architecture of this type would be in the case of something like a traditionalist development thats using new-urbanism in a battle against sprawl. Seen in something like the Middleton Hills development in Middleton, WI. [a location I saw a lot growing up] click for more info on that (http://www.erdman.com/mhills/cover_mh.htm) However in an urban scene I don't see this architectual style beneficial. The focus should be more so on creating architectual symbols of the current period [if they don't turn into urban eyesores in a decade]

as I've stated before, I'[m impressed by central city residential construction in Milw...both the amount of it and its quality.

I have another question for you guys (since I've learned a lot from reading here):

Milwaukee traffic is from virtually all the experience I've had (and that has been plenty) is delightful compared to most cities. That's amazing considering you don't have rapid transit.

You can zip in and out of downtown with relative ease (and I do mean relative...I know it isn't always like that). So here's my question: is it difficult to sell downtown living when people in the Milw area, in fact, have pretty good access to the downtown area and can enjoy it fairly easily whenever they want? Is the lack of hassle here in any way a negative for downtown development?

They are rebuilding the Marquette Interchange right now, so that might affect it somehow.

Are they actually considering building a large tower in the 3rd ward? Im pretty sure people will buy it out, with the huge condo craze going on.

Right now there are no tower proposals for the Third Ward because the zoning code and development standards does not allow them to be built there. The Department of City Development and the Historic Third Ward are considering changing those rules to allow towers--or at least taller buildings than what's currently allowed--to be built there in the future.

When is this building going to be completed? Personally, i think this is one of the coolest looking developments in the area.
http://img116.exs.cx/img116/1579/marine1big0eb.jpg


That's the Marine Terminal Building on Erie Street. Work started a few months ago to convert the old warehouse into commercial space and residential lofts. The top two floors will be new construction, built onto the existing roof. It ought to be done sometime next year, I'd guess.

The only time I enjoy seeing architecture of this type would be in the case of something like a traditionalist development thats using new-urbanism in a battle against sprawl. Seen in something like the Middleton Hills development in Middleton, WI.

New Urbanist developments like Middleton Hills, or any of the others out there, are nice-looking with their "traditional" architectural styles, but again, they still look like something they're not--old buildings. Developments can have traditional urban patterns (pedestrian friendly streets, smaller lots, mixed-uses, etc.) without having to use traditional architectural styles. Unfortunately, most architects and developers seem to think there's some kind of rule that says new urbanist developments have to be done in a traditional architetcural style.

At least we have some arhcitects/developers in Milwaukee who realize new urbansim doesn't mean traditional architecture. Case in point: the Park Terrace development going up on Commerce Street--rowhouses and single-family detached houses with a modern architectural style.

Its nice to hear that there seems to be a consensus among everyone here that new buildings shouldn't try to cling to old styles. Even in New Urbanist developments, there is no need to make the developments look "traditional" It is called NEW Urbanism, not OLD Urbanism. Unfortunatly, the housing market is pretty conservative right now. You have to search pretty hard to find developments like what is going up along the Beerline amongst the tradtitionalist developments elsewhere.


Milwaukee traffic is from virtually all the experience I've had (and that has been plenty) is delightful compared to most cities. That's amazing considering you don't have rapid transit.

You can zip in and out of downtown with relative ease (and I do mean relative...I know it isn't always like that). So here's my question: is it difficult to sell downtown living when people in the Milw area, in fact, have pretty good access to the downtown area and can enjoy it fairly easily whenever they want? Is the lack of hassle here in any way a negative for downtown development?

True, but people still complain about it all the same. Actually, i hear people complain more about parking downtown than anything else. But i don't think that the relative lack of bad traffic hurts the downtown housing market too much, i think people just want to be where the action is.

I totally agree that traditional architectual styles don't have to be used in developments using new urbanistic ideals, however the fact that new urbanism is being used in suburbs to prevent surburban sprawl at this point makes me happy. I'm happy with one step of the problem being solved.

In the suburban market I have no problem with this, however in the urban context is where problems arise with me.

Also in response to the traffic question. I rarely have problems getting around the city once inside it. Normally the only time I really have problems is when I want to leave the city or return into the city. I guess if people dont' want to deal with traffic congestion everyone will just have to live in the city and end commuting....

I wish:)

I've only lived in Milwaukee for two years, and my appetite for information on the city only continues to grow. I have a question for someone whos got information on this subject [markitect I'm guessing this would be one of your areas]

I was reading Urban Politican's new thread on the influence of Minneapolis on Chicago with regards to the job market and I didn't have any response to it because I don't know much about the regional job market strengths.

Was it Milwaukee's dominant job market?

I'm guessing the high-tech industry will grow in the future due to the valley redevolopment [which I see as a great asset, considering we have that room for large growth], and I've read articles about Milwaukees push to be recognized within the high-tech industry [hence the blue high-tech industry symbols seen in windows thoughout Milwaukee].

I'm come to the conclusion that we're trying to change our dirty-industry history to a high tech future, but is that correct? If high-tech industry is important in job market what else is? I really only have guesses on this subject, but I'd like to be informed by someone who has facts.

Also in the news:

The PrivateBank to occupy First National building--
The PrivateBank-Wisconsin plans to open its doors in downtown Milwaukee in January and will renovate the former home of First Wisconsin into its permanent headquarters. click for link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/12/06/daily3.html)

I'm come to the conclusion that we're trying to change our dirty-industry history to a high tech future, but is that correct? If high-tech industry is important in job market what else is? I really only have guesses on this subject, but I'd like to be informed by someone who has facts.


Here's how the job market has changed over the past 30+ years in metro Milwaukee:

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/dec04/brown2G120504.gif

Yes, Milwaukee is shedding its heavy, dirty, industrial image, but that's only because many of such firms have closed up for good, moved out to the suburbs/down south, or out of the country completely because it's cheaper.

All rustbelt cities are experiencing this.

wow, those hospital figures are huge. I guess this is why my mom (who works for Aurora) tells me to get into the medical field.
Speaking about industry, does anyone have any news on the valley, its projects, the park they are building..etc..thanks

All info about the Menomonee Valley redevelopment can be found on the Menomonee Valley Partners website (http:://www.renewthevalley.org). They have all the plans/drawings there.

As somebody posted here a couple weeks ago, the environmental clean-up at the west end of the Valley (approximately between 35th Street and Miller Park parking lots) has been completed. The City expects to put the developable land up for sale next year, with construction starting in 2006 (assuming there are buyers). So right now, there are no actual proposals for any new factories, warehouses, offices, whatever to be built there yet, since the land hasn't been put on the market.

What you see in the drawings on the website is all hypothetical. But it is hoped that it will become a 21st century industrial park--high tech stuff, clean stuff...not dirty, heavy industrial, smoke-belching factories. The development design guidelines that were recently written for the Valley will encourage environmentally sustainable archietcure design principles, so the developments will be ecologically-friendly.

Canal Street is being extended westward, so it will run the entire length of the Valley, all the way to Miller Park--that should start sometime next year, and will provide access to the west end where none really exists right now. Meanwhile, improvements to the existing eastern end of Canal Street are in progress.

Work will continue on the parkland and recreational areas. The twin smokestacks from the long-demolished Milwaukee Road railroad facility will remain if money can be found to stabilize and preserve them so they become the focus of one of the new parks going in. If not, they'll likely be torn down.

[deleted because already posted]

Thanks for the figures markitect.

I'm familar with the flee of industry overseas into the burbs, and down south, and the post-industrial effect on the rust belt cities, my father's company was bought out by John Deere then closed permantely to move overseas recently, John Deere is cool like that.

My question was more so along the lines of why we're focusing on high-tech indsutry? Is this common today within rust belt cities that were heavy on industry and didn't have a balanced market before the post-industial era. There's the simplistic answer that its easier to turn dirty-industry to high-tech. If thats the answer it makes sense, but I'm guessing it could be more complicated than that.

I heard Milwaukee produces some hi tech stuff. Someone said we make parts for the space shuttle and anti counterfeiting equipment. I also heard we produce robotic parts, x ray machines-which I assume is done by GE. Does anyone know of any other high tech things we produce?

My question was more so along the lines of why we're focusing on high-tech indsutry?

Milwaukee has always been a technology town, especially in the areas of machinery and electronics. The machinery manufacturing sector is much less than what it was (as indicated in the chart I posted earlier), but the electronics field always seems to be growing, especially now with computers and really high-tech stuff. So expanding that field which we already have, is a pretty safe bet--computers aren't liekly to disappear anytime soon. And we can still focus on things like electronic controls for motors and engines, or manufacturing mining equipment and such, like we've been doing for the past several decades.

The rise of the health care sector has a lot to do with the aging of the baby boomers and growing concern about the health of the general population. Most everybody wants to stay healthy, and a huge chunk of the population is reaching an age where they start having healh problems, so they want people and businesses who can help them with that. And that is where high-tech and health care fields cross--see GE Healthcare, which makes hospital equipment and does other medical stuff.

One of the main goals of attracting businesses to the Menomonee Valley is that the jobs created there be family-supporting--that people can live off the wages they earn. High-tech and manufacturing jobs ought to do that, some helth care jobs out to do that, but it isn't likely many service sector jobs can do that. This is one of the reasons why the City was so vocally opposed to having the west end of the valley developed into a retail center (like the previous owners wated to do). Families just can't be supported on jobs at fast food joints, big box retailers, or some corporate back-office calling center.

speaking of mining equipment...I heard they just shipped one out of the Port for Russia. It was a big shovel....like over a million pounds.

Sorry for the double post on the link, I didn't see that.

Thanks for the info on that markitect. Always good to hear about the positive decisions of the city.

I heard Milwaukee produces some hi tech stuff. Someone said we make parts for the space shuttle and anti counterfeiting equipment. I also heard we produce robotic parts, x ray machines-which I assume is done by GE. Does anyone know of any other high tech things we produce?


We have a respectable base of high-tech manufacturing in Milwaukee. Cerac Chemical on St. Paul in the Valley makes the tiles that keep the space shuttle from blowing up on re-entry. Eaton Corp. off of 27th & Capitol has a defense division that makes top-secret spy tecnology. Astroautics on Hampton makes components for space probes and satellites. Brady Corp on Good Hope Road makes computer software. GE Healthcare is the largest manufacturing company in Milwaukee, and it makes X-ray equipment, medical software, etc.

Manufacturing is alive and well in Milwaukee, but the people doing it are as likely to be scientists and engineers as what we think of as "traditional" blue collar types.

thats pretty cool milwaukeeunseen, I didnt know Milwaukee made all that stuff for the space program. Also intresting is that my uncle and cousin worked at Eaton (which I did not know what they did till now). Brady is right up by the crib and is housed in some really shiney blue building that kills my eyes when I drive past on a sunny day. Never heard of Astroautics, very intresting.
Well I think Im done with my posting frenzy tonight.....
One last question..
Does anyone know of any video stores that sell independant/low budget kind of videos in Milwaukee, because we dont have any that Im aware of on the NWside. Thanks

Holy crap, this thread is busy.

Okay, so in regards to the debate on arcartoonture in New Urbanist Developments: the New Urbanists' fondness for kitsch historicism is one of the things that bothers me about their movement. It's sort of like the architectural equivalent of the "return to moral values" in the political world, if you will. I'm equally excited to see that suburbs are opting for more dense, urban-esque developments. But they don't have to look like they were designed by Mickey Mouse and Friends. Keep Main Street USA in Disneyland, thankyouverymuch.

Does anyone know of any video stores that sell independant/low budget kind of videos in Milwaukee, because we dont have any that Im aware of on the NWside. Thanks

You can check Video Advantures on Brady and Oakland, although they do more rentals than sales. But a very good selection of foreign and hard-to-find flicks.

You might also check Riverwest Video on Locust. This is where the UWM film students go to get independent, underground films.

I visited Milwaukee this past weekend. It's amazing how close to Chicago it is. It only took me about an hour to drive there. I went to a nice restaurant and club. There seems to be a decent amount of development going on downtown and the lakefront was pretty nice.

Its cool how close it is-now if only they would get that high speed train with affordable prices.

I havent contriubted to this forum in a while, so I'd thought I'd post something Milwaukee-related...


http://milwaukee.brace.nu/Basic/CorsetMilwaukee.jpg

im too young to know what that ..........devise is.. :)

This is off-topic, but what do you think will be the third most important/populous/influential etc. city in Wisconsin. I was thinking it would be the Appleton area, which has a metro of 300,000 some thousand i believe.

^ Surely it will be Rhinelander. Maybe Stevens Point if they can get that light rail system up and running.

Yes, it has to be the Appleton-Green Bay area.

I'd say the fourth would have to be Superior, due to its position in the Superior-Duluth area.

Fifth - La Crosse.

Sixth: - Eau Claire

Seventh: Wausau

Eighth: Who gives a shit?

Appleton-Oshkosh-Neenah: 350,000+
Green Bay-DePere: 220,000+
Together: pretty big

One might argue that Sheboygan could be lumped in there too, and that's 115,000+

yeah the fox cities and green bay are pretty close. I wish Green Bay would be known for something besides the Packers outta state. I never heard about the light rail in Rhinelander though..

The Milwaukee law firm has hired Gensler Architecture, Design & Planning, Chicago, to develop a revised floor plan and interior design for the eight floors it leases in the downtown high-rise office building. Law firm executives would not disclose the cost of the renovations, but property management executives, who did not want to be identified, estimate the project would cost more than $1 million.
Article Link: click here (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/12/13/newscolumn2.html)

Gensler. Nice.


theodore, my roommate would fall in love with you if he saw that post. He actually uses the phrase "Rhinelander metro area" in conversation...in jest, of course, but still.

Question:
Since their rebuilding the market interchange, is there a way they can illuminate somehow with lighting? Is this a costly thing to do, or has it been done anywhere. It could be a good way to de-ugly the whole giant elevated interstate going through a downtown thing...

it would look cool. I always wanted them to light up the two giagantic smokestacks off the expressway with neon. I would like to see more buildings get lit up, like the Milwaukee Center. Lights always look cool in downtowns, especially the blue ones on the river in the third ward.

Question:
Since their rebuilding the market interchange, is there a way they can illuminate somehow with lighting? Is this a costly thing to do, or has it been done anywhere. It could be a good way to de-ugly the whole giant elevated interstate going through a downtown thing...

"Beautification" of the freeways in the Marquette Interchange area was indeed considered in the design--called "community sensitive design." Though I don't think there will be much in the way of lighting as there will be in other decorative things:

Instead of the standard cylindical pylons holding up the roadway, they will be a bit more graceful-looking with a spire motiff cast into the concrete (inspired by the steeples of the many churches in the area).

Two bas relief sculpture murals will be placed in the retaining walls/abutmaents of I-43 north of the core interchange. The murals will depict Milwaukee's history of slavery abolition and the Underground Railroad.

The street bridges which pass above the freeway will have decorative iron fencing, as opposed to chain link fencing. The Walnut Street Bridge will have ceramic tiles with African symbols on them--portraying some of Milwaukee's African-American heritage. The tiles were made by local school children and artists.

See the Community Sensitive Design (http://www.mchange.org/page.jsp?&key=csd) section of the Marquette Interchange website for some renderings.

it looks really good :)

I'm familar with that site, I was just looking for something with a more modern design...[sigh]

One of several endangered buildings at the Zablocki Vetrerans Affairs Medical Center will be preserved with a grant from the US Department of Housing and Urban Development. The VA hospital grounds were established in the years after the Civil War, but today some of the buildings are underutilized, dilapidated, and/or in danger of being demolished to support new development. The grant will be used to rehabilitate the Surgeons Quarters, built in 1887, into a small housing and rehabilitation facility for homeless veterans and other medical patients. Officials hope this effort will get the ball rolling to rehabilitate other buildings on the VA grounds.

Read the details in this article from the Journal Sentinel: Old VA building to get new use - Homeless veterans, others to share housing (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/dec04/285617.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/dec04/vets122004.jpg

^ The former Surgeons Quarters at the Zablocki Veterans Affairs Medical Center, and gravestones at Wood National Cemetery.

***

Two art installations have been proposed for Veteran's Park on the lakefront. The problem is, they're proposed for the same location.

The first is a life-like scultpure commemorating the Great Circus Parade (an annual Milwaukee tradition, once again on indefinite hiatus due to funding shortages). The sculpture features bronze likenesses of Ben Barkin, Chappie Fox, and Bob Uihlein (who were instrumental figures in producing the parade), and a replica of the popular Cinderella circus wagon pulled by two ponies. The problem is, this proposal was thought to be dead after supporters let the paperwork and fundraising deadline expired. Now that another sculpture has been proposed for the site, circus statue supporters suddenly want another shot at it.

The second, and most recent, proposal is for an interactive, abstract sculpture called "Wind Leaves." The installation is a forest of sail-like sculptures with shiny silver discs which will move in the wind, glimmer in the sunlight, and are interactive--viewers will be able to turn the sails.

Check out the editorial from the Journal Sentinel for the debate: Circus Parade memorial is out of step (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/dec04/285590.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/dec04/gould122004.jpg

^ A rendering of the Great Circus Parade sculpture proposed for Veteran's Park.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/dec04/gould2122004.jpg

^ A model of the "Wind Leaves" sculpture for Veteran's Park.

***
Part of the Columbia-St. Mary's Hospital campus consolidation and redevelopment on the East Side could include a new grocery store. As part of the upcoming hospital project, Columbia-St. Mary's purchased and demolished the Heiser Ford dealership at N. Prospect and E. North Avenues. Current plans for the site call for an 8-story medical office building and 600-car parking garage; the reaminder of the site would be open for other development.

Milwaukee-based Roundy's is exploring the possibility of building a Pick n' Save Metro Market--an upscale and small-format grocery store, similar to the one recently opened in Downtown. Austin-based Whole Foods, an upscale/natural/organic grocery retailer, is interested in the site as well (and has previously looked at other sites in the Downtown area).

More info in the Business Journal article: Grocery store wars: Roundy's, Whole Foods consider St. Mary's site for stores (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/12/20/story2.html?page=1)

They tried to build a massive movable sail sculpture in a suburb of Madison called Monona. Although it was beatiful, it had 3 overly sized metal sails that were actually very dangerouns in the wind, so they had to make it so they couldn't move.

Sorry that was off topic, I'm not saying wind leaves won't be workable, I'm sure it will because the size of the sales are smaller the one I know had problems. I hope this project gets built, it sounds like it has more momentum...is that correct?

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/dec04/gould122004.jpg

wtf?

I hope I'm not breaking some sacred board rule here, but you guys on the Milw thread are always so nice, I thought I'd give it a go...

how is Turner's restaurant on 4th and Water for lunch? Good choice? thanks

can anyone go over to SSP and find giovanni sassos' emial address for me and pm it to me, please. No, I'm not stalking him.



----FiddleStiXXXXXXXX

I hope I'm not breaking some sacred board rule here, but you guys on the Milw thread are always so nice, I thought I'd give it a go...

how is Turner's restaurant on 4th and Water for lunch? Good choice? thanks

Turners is on 4th & Highland (across the street from the Bradley Center) and is a really good German restaurant with affordable prices. If you like German cuisine (schnitzel, sausage, spakel, etc) then this a good place to go.

Heavy German food is great in the dead of winter.

Hey guys does anyone know whats going on on the corner of 2nd and Clybourn?? There's some building being torn down. Anyone know what for?

Hey guys does anyone know whats going on on the corner of 2nd and Clybourn?? There's some building being torn down. Anyone know what for?

Developers who own that site (Wispark) are just tearing down the vacant building so the land can eventually be redeveloped. As far as I've heard, there aren't any specific plans for the site yet--so in the meantime, it will be used as a surface parking lot.

It was rumored earlier this year that several retailers were looking at the site--including Roundy's, Whole Foods, and Kohl's--but it doesn't seem anything has materialized form that yet.

Good news on the METRA Expansion! :)




http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/dec04/286583.asp

Happy Holidays dudes. I'll see you in '05.

Since its around Christmas I have a random question for everyone, not very important but something I was thinking about.

Do you guys like the way the city decorates for the holidays, or do you think they need an update? I'm home in Madison right now and I really enjoyed the new modern looking lights that are up and down state street.

I know its a detail, but I think its an image issue that could be addressed.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS

reggie white? Come on!

I feel bad for his family. He was a great man and motivator. This is also another tragic incident for Brett Farve...who was friends with Reggie i believe.

I hate to say it but the last thing I remember about Reggie White was him taking $250,000 to rebuild his church that burned, and never using the money to rebuild it. Sounds like a thief to me.

I hate to say it but the last thing I remember about Reggie White was him taking $250,000 to rebuild his church that burned, and never using the money to rebuild it. Sounds like a thief to me.

I thought it was more money than that... yeah... i'm glad somebody said it and not me though...

of course it is a shame that Reggie White died. And of course he did some very great things for the community.

but if I had met him I would have told Reggie, a black man, that what southerners once said about his race was no more offensive than what Reggie said about gays.

Personally I am all for a tolerant America and, I'm sorry, Reggie White was not a tollerant man.

It was Reggie White who came before the Wisconsin legislature in 1996 and gave a speech riddled with ethnic stereotypes and gay-bashing. And that wasn't the only off-field incidence of ignorant, bigotted behavior.

I find it embarrasing and apalling that White's death gets top billing in the Milw. Journal Sentinel, above the tsunami in Asia, which has claimed 23,000 lives and counting. Today my thoughts are with the people of South Asia, I could give a flying hell about Reggie White, or skylines for that matter.

It was Reggie White who came before the Wisconsin legislature in 1996 and gave a speech riddled with ethnic stereotypes and gay-bashing. And that wasn't the only off-field incidence of ignorant, bigotted behavior.

I find it embarrasing and apalling that White's death gets top billing in the Milw. Journal Sentinel, above the tsunami in Asia, which has claimed 23,000 lives and counting. Today my thoughts are with the people of South Asia, I could give a flying hell about Reggie White, or skylines for that matter.


well, come on now. Reggie White was a local hero in the first place, so his status on the front pages was justified. Hell, even in here in South Carolina he was on the front page this morning. So its understandable why they chose to cover it so extensively.

Next, Reggie White was a product of his upbringing...black southern ministers are not always gay friendly. He made the mortal celebrity sin of letting his personal beliefs spillover into the public light. Whatever you thought of him politcally, you should still be sad that a great football player and a pretty decent man has died.

I am sad that a great football player and a pretty decent man has died. But I don't see why that's more important than 24,000 people dying in one of the worst natural disasters ever.

The story should be covered in the sports pages, where it belongs.

both incidents had front page stories I believe. I think people care more about Reggie, because he was a local hero-a person many people connected to. He wasnt afraid to show his love for God, which is cool in my book. He did some dumb things-but that was coming from a southern minister. The Bible doesnt agree with homosexuality anyway-so I dont know why this makes him a bigot really. The tsunami story is horrible and I feel sorry for those people. I really am not suprised by this story at all-seeing how a regular typhoon kills hundreds of thousands in Bangladesh every blue moon. I feel for these people who lost everything, but theres sadly not much that can be done or said against a natural disater-except donate money to the RedCross or something. They still are taking donations for Hurricane Relief though, so we shouldnt forget about our own country.
I like Reggie alot-he did alot for the community, his family, Gods work, and the Packers. He also helped the economy I hear.

I am sad that a great football player and a pretty decent man has died. But I don't see why that's more important than 24,000 people dying in one of the worst natural disasters ever.

The story should be covered in the sports pages, where it belongs.

Please. Like I said, Reggie White was a local legend. His death will probably impact more people here than the tsunami did.

Please. People in this state need to realize that football is just a game. I'm tired of how every time Brett Farve takes a dump it's reported on the news like it's the second coming. You speak of Reggie White's religious views -- a lot of churches cancelled Christmas Eve services due to scheduling conflict with the packer game. Perspective, people.

I am sad that a great football player and a pretty decent man has died. But I don't see why that's more important than 24,000 people dying in one of the worst natural disasters ever.

The story should be covered in the sports pages, where it belongs.
Yeah and what are you doing about it? Are you actually makeing a difference and helping out in any way? Are you donating money, food, or blankets and close? The people in Southeast Asia who are suffering don't need your pity out of your right to know...they need your help!

I'd like to hear your arguement for how Reggie White helped the economy. People everywhere (not just WI) have an inflated sense of pro sports' impact on the local economy. This is because we've been duped by millionaire owners and athletes into thinking that without pro sports, your city is nothing, economically. There's two excellent books out there, "Major League Losers" and "Field of Schemes" that present damn compelling arguements that pro sports do not have nearly the economic impact that warrents the level of public investment in stadiums and arenas.

Sports play an important role in society. But suggesting that Mr. White had more impact on our pocketbooks than the costliest disaster in history (not to mention 50,000+ dead) is ridiculous.

^ You make very valid points milwaukeeunseen

Hey, guys, I know that malls are the lowest form of urban and suburban life form (and mentioning them, in the eyes of some, makes you a front against urbanity, culture, and a blight on the urban streetscape).

Still I'll chance it.

I drove by Mayfair the other day; I didn't go in, but I couldn't believe the development that was going on in and around the mall. That is a pretty impressive group of restaurants on the east side with outdoor entrances (Maggiano's, PJ Chang, ChFact, etc.). That's also some movie complex. And, as always, I think it's save to say that Field's at Mayfair has to be the single best dept store in metroMilw.

I've been in this mall a number of times. It always seems to have had the ability to reinvent itself (from outdoors to indoors to the ice skating era to its present reincarnation.

Does Mayfair dominate the metro retail scene in Milw the way, let's say, the Galleria does Houston? Considering the mix of stores, I was suprised that when C&B decided to open a Milw store it went elsewhere (Brookfield...right?)

How do you see Mayfair in the retail scheme of things in Milw. I think the place is cool, kind of a Milw version of combining Oakbrook with Woodfield. Do you agree?

I'd have to say the Mayfair is dominant when compared to other metro Milwaukee Malls. Personally I hate it because its crowded EVERY DAY, more so than any mall I've ever been familar with, and parking is horrible.

Going to Mayfair for me is a trip I save for a day when I have a lot of time, and I feel like leaving the city. Otherwise living on the eastide I'd rather pick up a few things at Grand Ave, or bayshore, which are both very close by car and bus. Now with the major renovation of bayshore, I'm sure that will be able to compete with Mayfair as a destination shopping mall. It's too bad Mayfair does have the better stores, but I'm rooting for Grand Ave. and Bayshore anyways.

About the Bayshore area:
The location is proximate to the North Shore's most affluent communities. The trade area of more than 300,000 features an average household income of more than $100,000 a year. The commute from downtown Milwaukee is only six miles. Those planning this development hope to make it the premier Greater Milwaukee destination for shopping and dining.

Note the choice of steering clear of tradional mall design, and focusing on creating a "neighborhood" experience, very new-urbanistic of them.

Renderings:
Entry Plaza
http://www.bayshoremilwaukee.com/_graphics/uploads/renderings/bldg_entryplaza_large.jpg
Town Square
http://www.bayshoremilwaukee.com/_graphics/uploads/renderings/bldg_townsquare_small.jpg
Bayshore Ground Plan
http://www.bayshoremilwaukee.com/_graphics/uploads/images/bayshore/bs_groundlevel_300.jpg
Second Level Plan
http://www.bayshoremilwaukee.com/_graphics/uploads/images/bayshore/bs_2ndLevel_300.jpg

Bayshore looks nice, following the role of other lifestyle shopping center that return a sense of street and community to suburban shopping.

I don't know if you guys have had a chance to see any of them that we have in the Chgo area, but two of the best are:

The Glen (in Glenview) on the site of the old naval air station. A wonderful street environment in a total community that has a number of links to the past. A great and LARGE infill development that's really quality (and really worth seeing). They even built alake in the middle

Deer Park northwest of Palatine in the NW burbs, on Rand road...great upscale shops, good dining, theatres, quite walkable.

I myself am all the way on the Southside near Mitchell Airport so I myself usually head to Southridge, or maybe Grand Avenue once and awhile. But I feel like trying out Mayfair, do you all think its worth the trip? I know that Southridge is adding four stores in the old Yonkers Store.

Also more information on Midwest Rail in today's Journal Sentinel. Looks like price is going up: :(


http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/dec04/287778.asp

Dunno if I should post this in General Midwest forum. If I should have, sorry lol :(

edsg25, I'll try to check those out sometime, huge fan of good development, and thanks for the link Kyoto.

EastSider,

you'd really enjoy seeing the Glen. It is the largest in-fill development ever in the Chicago area. An unprecidented situation where prime real estate, along the fringe of the North Shore, became available by the closing of the naval air base.

no money was spared to build this community. in addition to the town center (which looks like an old fashioned street, with great shops and restaurants..it even retained the hanger of GNAB), the development includes its own Metra station, a large lake (beautifully landscaped), state of the art community fittness center and middle school, a museum, homes with garages in back and porches in front (new urbanism), townhouses designed like Chgo rowhouses surrounding the town center (giving it almost instant urban feel) and more. There are a number of residential communities within the Glen and they are all pretty distinctive architecturally and in the innovations they have made.

well worth a see...if you're reading south on 294,just get off at Willow and head east to Patriot...turn right and you're there. As a city lover and lover of new development, you won't be disappointed.

Please. People in this state need to realize that football is just a game. I'm tired of how every time Brett Farve takes a dump it's reported on the news like it's the second coming. You speak of Reggie White's religious views -- a lot of churches cancelled Christmas Eve services due to scheduling conflict with the packer game. Perspective, people.


I never said I was such a huge packer fan. I'm just saying his life (and death) was very important in this commnity. Like it or not, you can't disagree with that.

Yeah and what are you doing about it? Are you actually makeing a difference and helping out in any way? Are you donating money, food, or blankets and close? The people in Southeast Asia who are suffering don't need your pity out of your right to know...they need your help!

What the people of South Asia need from us right now is money. You can donate online at www.worldvision.com, or at www.oxfamamerica.org. It doesn't appear that Red Cross has online donations yet for the tsunami relief.

I would encourage everyone to give as much as they can. If medical aid does not come quickly, even more people could perish from disease.

I found some cool photos of downtown Milwaukee taken from the Teweles Seed Tower, which is just south of downtown and is being converted into apts.

See the photos here:

http://www.tewelesseed.com/progress.php

cool view. I was thinking of getting a place there due to it being inexpensive, however its in a pretty rough neighborhood correct?

btw..the new bridge over lincoln memorial dr. looks pretty nice if anyone saw it.

What the people of South Asia need from us right now is money. You can donate online at www.worldvision.com, or at www.oxfamamerica.org. It doesn't appear that Red Cross has online donations yet for the tsunami relief.

I would encourage everyone to give as much as they can. If medical aid does not come quickly, even more people could perish from disease.
Thanks unseen! I just saw that the death toll is up to 77,000 and they still believe that's only a fraction of what the number will come to. Yeah I been waiting for the Red cross to get their act together.

Thanks Buzzcut for that site. Those are some impressive views!

Milwaukee's lookin good! The latest Bureau of Labor Statistics figures on metropolitan employment gains show the four-county Milwaukee area gaining more workers from November 2003 to November 2004 than any other metro area in the region, and the 22nd-most of 284 urban areas nationwide.

http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/dec04/288174.asp

Noone has posted here for awile, including myself---so I thought I would try to start a discussion....

Does anyone think it possible to build a bridge or an underground tunnel, crossing Lake Michigan?

In the news recently:

No traffic jam: Downtown group seeks campaign
Downtown-area business owners, citing stories that have already run on the massive highway project in daily newspapers in Minnesota and Illinois, hope to help change the impression of Milwaukee getting Chicago-like traffic jams.

They are working with the Greater Milwaukee Convention & Visitors Bureau to persuade state officials to allocate $250,000 for a marketing campaign aimed at northern Illinois. Wisconsin Department of Transportation officials have budgeted $5 million for communications aimed at helping Milwaukee-area residents navigate the roads during the project.
click for link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/12/27/newscolumn1.html)

City Hall could sidetrack Amtrak plan
The $5.4 million renovation of the downtown Milwaukee Amtrak station, already almost a year behind schedule, may be derailed by zoning and permit problems with Milwaukee city officials.
click for link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/12/27/story1.html)

Many obstacles, pitfalls scuttle ambitious projects
The stalled Hawthorne Suites proposal is one example of dozens that Milwaukee officials receive every year from real estate developers with big plans that never happen.
click for link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/12/27/story2.html?page=1)

Grocery store wars: Roundy's, Whole Foods consider St. Mary's site for stores
Two grocery store retailers are exploring options to build stores on vacant land on Milwaukee's east side owned by Columbia St. Mary's Inc.
click for link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/12/20/story2.html)

Milwaukee developer to build retail center on Farwell
Milwaukee development firm is building a 5,000-square-foot retail center on Farwell Avenue on the Milwaukee's east side.
click for link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/12/27/newscolumn2.html)

Sears attempts to stop Bayshore parking structure
Sears, Roebuck & Co. has asked a Milwaukee County Circuit Court judge to halt construction of a parking deck planned as part of Bayshore Mall's $300 million renovation into a retail, entertainment, office, residential and public use development
click for link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/12/20/daily25.html)

Employment up, unemployment down in Milwaukee area
The number of people working in Milwaukee and Waukesha counties increased by 17,200 in November compared with November 2003, an improvement of 2.1 percent, according to statistics released Wednesday by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Employment in the two counties stood at 836,700 in November, the bureau said.
click for link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/12/27/daily28.html)

Milwaukee's lookin good! The latest Bureau of Labor Statistics figures on metropolitan employment gains show the four-county Milwaukee area gaining more workers from November 2003 to November 2004 than any other metro area in the region, and the 22nd-most of 284 urban areas nationwide.

http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/dec04/288174.asp
I know this is awesome.

The BLS reported similar figures for the September 2003-September 2004 period a few weeks back. (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/nov04/273005.asp) However, it is important to put them into perspective.

While the numbers may appear impressive at first, one should consider that the local economy was lagging a bit behind here than elsewhere. So we're not really doing better than evberyone else--we're catching up from behind due to the lag. Second, most of the employment gains haven't actually gone those those who need it the most--the poor. And finally, out of all the jobs that have been created, they've typically been paying ower-than-avegage-wages.

New jobs are good, of course; but it may not be quite as awesome as you may think.

That one linked article about the "Farwell Shoppes" (nice friggin name) alluded to a possibility of Farwell becoming open to two-way traffic. Is that for real?

Farwell and Prospect being converted to two way has been on the table as a possibility for some time. The retailers on both streets are strongly for it, as it slows traffic down, which is essential for urban retail. The owners of the high-rise residential towers on Prospect are against it, saying that it will make their units less attractive.

I think what will end up happening is that Farwell and Prospect will be two way from Bradford south to about Brady Street, then south of there will be one way. This has been brought forward as kind of a comprimise, and from what I understand people have been receptive to the idea.

The BLS reported similar figures for the September 2003-September 2004 period a few weeks back. (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/nov04/273005.asp) However, it is important to put them into perspective.

While the numbers may appear impressive at first, one should consider that the local economy was lagging a bit behind here than elsewhere. So we're not really doing better than evberyone else--we're catching up from behind due to the lag. Second, most of the employment gains haven't actually gone those those who need it the most--the poor. And finally, out of all the jobs that have been created, they've typically been paying ower-than-avegage-wages.

New jobs are good, of course; but it may not be quite as awesome as you may think.

That makes sense, what do you think will occur in the future? Will we see the same pattern?

On the DOT site I found this rendering for the new Amtrak station by the Post Office.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/state/images/amtrak-new-terminal.jpg
click here for a larger pic (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/state/docs/amtrak-new-terminal.pdf)
click for the sit through the DOT (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/state/amtrak-phase1.htm)

http://img43.exs.cx/img43/3357/wisconsin0nk.gif

LOL at ReddAlert, why couldn't they have made that the Wisconsin quarter instead of the stupid, ugly, Cows head? What you showed would've been better! UG, when people start getting these Wisconsin quarters I think I'm going to have to bury myself somewhere...

On the DOT site I found this rendering for the new Amtrak station by the Post Office.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/state/images/amtrak-new-terminal.jpg
click here for a larger pic (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/state/docs/amtrak-new-terminal.pdf)
click for the sit through the DOT (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/state/amtrak-phase1.htm)
I really don't like that meaningless "V" on the entrance portal roofline. Reminds me too much of the "style" of the sixties and seventies. I won't quibble about the rest of the design, but since the canopy is an undulating arch, since the building otherwise looks quasi-traditional, and arches are are a motif frequently used in rail terminal design, wouldn't inverting and smooting that "V" be a real improvement? A not terribly accomplished altering of the original rendering:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/amtrakintermodallg.jpg

Hm...the Amtrak renovation looks a little better than I had thought.

Hm...the Amtrak renovation looks a little better than I had thought.
You prefer the current plan?

its alright....an improvement to say the least.
I wish they would build something more....grandeur..like Calatravas Orient Station in Portugal. Then again, this station isnt as significant as that one.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/amtrakintermodallg.jpg


What I really love about this picture is the two random hot women in the foreground. Since when have there been hot women at the train station? In Milwaukee?


It's distracting either way, and the artist should have taken that into account. A few cars or some really fat people would have put the viewer's focus on the building.


I don't like the building, either.


I had a bad day.

I think I like the V better than the rounded top, but with keeping the V I'd like to see a change with the over-hangs. I'd have to agree with you all, not a horrible design, but I could see Milwaukee doing better.

> Does anyone know of any other high tech things we produce?
Here I come with my dorky siren info. :D

American Signal Corporation has been stationed in Milwaukee for some time now, and they decided to move to Milwaukee for more space and to utilize the labor pool. So they moved out of Mequon.

American Signal Coporation is THE only other major mechanical siren manufacture worth paying attention to besides Federal Signal Corporation, which is located in University Park, IL suburb of Chicago.

ASC produces the currently loudest siren in the world, the Tempest 135. On direct axis with the siren's projection horn, the siren kicks out 135 dB of a relatively low frequency(for a siren anyways) @ 100 feet away. The T-135 is the 2nd loudest siren ever in history.

One thing ASC did, in buying out a lot of Alerting Communications of America, is manufacture tons of sirens that made it into the market, but were considered prototypes because they always dropped them so fast. Therefore, the T-135 was originally called the P-50, but is the same exact siren as the T-135, it just has a different company name and model name(IE: ASC bought out ACA). Kenosha County has 20 P-50s, and Milwaukee has plenty of them.

http://www.wisconsinsirens.com/sirenvideos.php

A video of this siren in question is on my siren site in the above link.


American Signal Corporation, originally known as ACA or Alerting Communicators of America has been designing and manufacturing warning systems and providing clients with turn-key installation services for 60 years. In 1982, we became the first company in the industry to provide a wireless digital supervisory control and data acquisition (SCADA) system called CompuLert™ with over 6000 installations world- wide. The advancements in the siren designs include battery operation, high powered Voice/Sirens, indoor alerting systems and with the experience in the wireless field, American Signal has the expertise to meet virtually any warning system project goal.

Our engineering and system specialists work hand in hand with clients to assist in the development of the project scope, so that we understand and are able to meet the goals of our clients. Our client base includes municipal governments (Village, Town, City, County and entire Countries), industrial facilities, and military bases. When our clients make the decision or commitment to provide their constituents or employees with emergency notification, whether natural disaster or man made, American Signal can take you from start to finish. We can coordinate efforts from needs assessments, acoustical surveys and technical proposals, to radio system back-bone studies, installation and service/maintenance contracts.

In our new production facilities we have the ability to respond to customer lead time requirements quicker and with more consistency than our competition and we would welcome the opportunity to respond to you.

What I really love about this picture is the two random hot women in the foreground. Since when have there been hot women at the train station? In Milwaukee?


It's distracting either way, and the artist should have taken that into account. A few cars or some really fat people would have put the viewer's focus on the building.


I don't like the building, either.


I had a bad day.

You're right about the phony glamorizing. It needs a more honest setting:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/amtrakintermodalmke.jpg

LOL.

Thats cool! I didnt know we were the siren king of the U.S...thanks for the info Ben. We should build one so loud, it makes buildings crumble...like in movies.

I may have asked this before...but does anyone have a Milwaukee skyline pic that shows how the Kilbourn Tower/UC tower will look next to each other? Thanks.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/suburbanmonkey50/uctandkt.bmp

^oh Can't Wait

Thats cool! I didnt know we were the siren king of the U.S...thanks for the info Ben. We should build one so loud, it makes buildings crumble...like in movies.

Hehe. The T-135 actually pushes the limit. It has far more strict mounting requirements. Infact ASC custom-made a pole specifically for mounthing the T-135 due to the laws on it's mounthing height, due to the dB level. Even so, I'm suprised they have not gotten lawsuits yet(Not ASC directly, but towns in general). 135dB, if you were to get the full effect of it, would be Bad News(TM) The only siren that is louder isn't used anymore and is very old. The Chrysler air raid siren powered by a 180hp hemi engine. http://victorysiren.com for more. The chysler's were only 3dB louder than the current one produced by ASC, and the chrysler was known to start grass fires and turn fog into rain because of the vibrations it caused.

But, that's pretty neat, Milwaukee is ASC country, and Wisconsin is jus siren country in general, Dane County having a diverse selection of over 100 sirens, Milwaukee County itself having 48. Siren enthusiasts from around the country have taken trips to ASC just to get tours.

> ^oh Can't Wait
Oh yeah! That picture, and both of those designs just look downright sexy IMO. :D


Now, that Northwest Milwaukee stuff I've hinted at. I have a fellow siren enthusiast acquaintence from West Allis who drives public transit throughout Milwaukee during 3rd shift hours. He is a little over 40 and has lived there his whole life. Another friend of mine is attending Marquette and living there. He recently got mugged by a black man, around 10pm at night while walking to his car from a cofee shop. Guy held a sawed-off 12 guage to his stomach and went through his pckets.

Through talking to both of them, I've hacked this together:
http://datadrops.com/temp/Milwaukee2.jpg

Yes/no?

The purple lakefront marking is just a generaliation of the nice area, but I would surely appreciate specifics while using that map as a guide. I am also aware of some of the hispanic pockets right where the actual word downtown is on my map, but since I've been told that they're hit and miss I didn't feel the need to include them.

If you would like a clean version of that map for reference, if perhaps it's confusing to look at while trying to describe stuff to me, try this one instead:

http://datadrops.com/temp/Milwaukee.jpg


The only thing I am concerned about in the Northwest area is what it looks like and the seriousness of crime for, especially for a white person. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be racist with that remark, I had a black friend for a long time, and ..I mean we all know that topic is silly. Even so, black ghettos in big cities are never a place for a white person to be, especially at night. It's just common sense.

IE: I may go through there soon just to see what it's like and experience it. I also may document the sirens in that area(quickly).


Northwest
So?
Stay in your car at night?
Stay in the light?
Try to go with at least one other person?
Daytime is fine, even going to resturaunts and stuff, but make sure your feelers are out?

Downtown
At night, stay away from alleys when you're alone?

I realize the Northwest area doesn't have as much to offer as the Miller Park/State Fair Park and Downtown areas, but I would appreciate a run down of Milwaukees "be aware here" areas...especially if I plan on moving closer just to be able access it more frequently and quicker.

I live off of Mill Road on the NWside. Its not THAT bad really. You should read my post in the Madison thread in which you asked about that area. Parts are deterorating and businesses are leaving...however the area isnt in complete turmoil. I would say that crime is increasing due to the people moving in from the inner city. Maybe Ill do a photo thread of the NW side...to show people its not a complete wreck.

BTW..
I wouldnt say you should stay in light...thats a bit of an exageration lol. Maybe deep in the northside..but my area isnt too that extreme. Although there were people rioting on 76st this summer and beat up some gas station owner and looted the store.

That map is a shocking pile of horseshit, ben. I live within one of your red circles and it's the best neighborhood I have lived in. And yes, I have lived in your blue circle also, the so-called "nice" lakefront area. And I fail to see the "common sense" in staying away from certain parts of town if you're white. What is it about being white that makes you more of a target for this crime you hear about on the news? Sorry friend, but 99% of the crime in this city is inflicted upon minorities. Oops, sorry for talking about race, that "silly topic" in your words. How silly a topic to discuss one of America's most segregated cities.

Crime happens more on the North Side then anywhere else in the City. But tornadoes happen more in Oklahoma than any other state. Does that mean I'm going to avoid Oklahoma, or when I'm there, look out for twisters? Ridiculous.
I'm sorry your friend got robbed at gunpoint but I know an old lady who was also robbed at gunpoint -- in her house in a rural hamlet tucked away in picturesque southwest Wisconsin. Let me tell ya, since that happened I've avoided the area like the plague. But when I'm there I have my feelers out, if you know what I mean.

By all means come to these neighborhoods. But why don't bring your little map along and ask the "locals" their thoughts on your personal geography of this city.

yes and south of downtown has alot of gang activity as well.

Where do you live milwaukeeunseen?

> That map is a shocking pile of horseshit, ben.
Wel, you'd know more than I would. I was just going off what one person told me. I'll talk with the transit driver more to see what he has to say.

> sorry for talking about race, that "silly topic" in your words.
It is a fairly silly topic because I have not, and will not treat someone bad because of their race or religion. If they do something retarted, that's another story. I think that the fact that some people do segregate is the dumb stuff, but I'd care not to get into it.

> But why don't bring your little map along and ask the "locals" their thoughts on your personal geography of this city.
I don't know who I'd want to avoid more now, crime or you. I don't even live in Mil. and I'm trying to understand the areas that are a bit more run down and have had more crime in them so I can simply be more aware.

You, find some sort of disgust in this and go off on me. Unusual.

I dont think he was angry at you Ben. The parts you should stay away from during the night and day is the northside...up along North Ave, Fond du Lac Ave, Walnut, Capitol...etc. Mostly the parts closer to downtown are the bad parts of Milwaukee. This is true with the Southside as well..which is where the Latino gangs are. I dont think people will give you too much trouble in this area during the day. I wouldnt really walk too much on the Northside ghetto.....theres nothing to do there anyway!! If you take North Ave. through the hood you'll come to a park that has a beautiful view of downtown Milwaukee..keep on going past that on North and your in UWM area...which is pretty safe. Driving around these parts in your car isnt so bad...I would watch out in the summer though! People in these areas like to park their car in the middle of the street and screw around...large groups also form sometimes..I wouldnt want to be in my car with all these people blocking the road really! Around Marquette is pretty bad as well...mostly west of the campus. Downtown and the east side is safe. Westown part of Downtown near Grand Ave. probally has more problems than the eastern part...near the U.S bank building and the art museum. The Third Ward is filled with yuppies so dont be afraid of that area..even though it does look like dark and industrial at night. The northwest side is not as bad as the North side near downtown..South of Mill or along 76 st. is kinda bad in the numerous apartment complexes. Wauwatosa has some bad parts...as does Glendale...but for the most part they are safe. Mayfair doesnt have the problems it did so I wouldnt worry about that place....except if your looking for parking! Waukesha County is extremly safe. Racine and Kenosha have some pretty bad parts....most parts are good though. Ozaukee Co. is very safe as well--however Mequon is bordered by some pretty run down parts right near Northridge and its apartments. The apartments by the man made lake have their problems...along with the apartments in Servite Woods that are inbetween 76st and Brown Deer. The stores in this area arent anything spectacular..trust me. This isnt the area to do shopping in...unless you live around here.
Thats my personal feelings on bad parts of Milwaukee..if anyone has any other comments? Dont worry Ben, Milwaukee isnt a city where you have to look over your shoulder all the time.

I live on the Southside my self. On Howard Ave. This area in my opinion has actually improved over my years here. There used to be grafiti, but Ald. Pawlinski formed the Howell Ave. Business League, and since they started cleaning it up, I have seen less crime, and graffiti ever since. Of course theres the break in once an awhile, but these are usually garages. Id say a lot of the gang probs. on the southside are Mitchell, maybe Lincoln and North. Other than that, a lot of the Southside, especially near the Airport is pretty nice :) . I remember when we used to live on Lincoln, and it wasnt too bad there either really, worse than parts my cousin lives in, on near Greenfield Ave. But still, Milwaukee, for a city for its size is pretty above average in crime control, but there are still problems nonetheless

Question I've been wanting to ask: is there commuter rail service between Chicago and Milwaukee ?

> Dont worry Ben, Milwaukee isnt a city where you have to look over your shoulder all the time.
Well yeah, it's Wisconsin!

But like I said, I don't know much about Milwaukee's patches where you have to be cautious. Most of what I had in that picture and the questions I asked, "put your feelers out" etc, is based on this guy I know who is attending Marquette University and he is the same guy that was robbed. However, that isn't biasing his decision much. He told me he'd visit people, go out to eat in some of the Northwest areas, take part in our siren hobby thing, etc. But he said that he wouldn't recommend doing much in that area AT ALL at night. And HE(not me) said that the caution area keeps going to anywhere within the city limits, EVEN where it starts to thin out on that map.

Now, the transit driver who is 40+ and has lived in Milwaukee his whole life and drives bus 3rd shift hours has said almost the same thing, though not to the extreme the college kid has. Even so he's said the same thing the college kid said; daytime is pretty fine for almost all areas, but the areas that are concerns multiply when you start talking about walking around alone at night.

My dad had to goto Northwest near the inner city for a diverse culture study/interaction of some sort and everyone there was either black or mexican. He was the only white person, and THEY told him that the area he was in was not a place for a white person to be, especially at night. He took my mom back to that area to show her houses with windows falling off, doors falling off, garbage all over, etc. My dad personally defends Milwaukee with the excuse, "It's in Wisconsin. Don't worry about it." among a few other excuses. But what he said is what he said, he wouldn't do it just to stir the pot.

If you have any concerns to this information, please try to discuss it civily, I am not the one making these false claims, I'm just trying to clarify them. Hell I'm willing to give Miltown a chance by moving inbetween Madison and Milwaukee instead of just moving closer to Madison and forgetting about Milwaukee for the most part.

I personally can't wait until Kilbourn/UV Club are done. :) PICTURE TIME.

Speaking of that, I found one website where a guy went on a picture hunt in Madison and Milwaukee, among Eau Claire and a few other notable Wisconsin cities. All pictures were like bare minimum 1024x768. It was nice. Anyways, in flipping through these, my own collection I've found on the net, and all the typical UV Club/Kilrbourn Tower pictures, it's kind of tricky for me to see where the best vatange point is to see these towers from, as far as 94, 794, and 894 is concerned. You get a really good night time/daytime shot of Milwaukee's main downtown area when you're going over the Marquette exchange on 894 and merging into 43 north. You also get a good downtown shot from high-rise bridge going north on 794. Both of these are very pretty, but I think I like the nighttime view from the exchange better. You're higher up, and due to the square grid orientation of downtown you see more from the exchange cause you're at an angle in relation to the downtown grid.

Either way, will you be able to see the towers blending in with the skyline from either of these places? All the times I've went through there I haven't bothered to ID Kilbourn yet.

Good lord. Milwaukeeunseen, you don't have to go to the other extreme. Being completely ignorant of your surroundings is a terrible idea.

In the News:

Derail DOT's Amtrak station plan
The Wisconsin Department of Transportation, working with four private sector development and construction firms, has proposed a makeover of the exterior of the 60,000-square-foot building at 433 W. St. Paul Ave., an upgrade of the interior and the addition of retail space, including a drive-through restaurant.

Everyone should read this article. It talks about the development of the current Amtrak station into a mixed-used retail project. They're looking to downsize the project, or build more than one building.

What are your opinions? One building or two?
CLICK FOR LINK IN BIZ JOURNAL (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/01/03/editorial1.html)

Let's talk about perception vs. realty. I live in Sherman Park and many of my East and South Side friends are reluctant to come to my neighborhood because they perceive it as unsafe. In all my time living there, not only have I never had a problem with crime, I don't know of a single neighbor who has. In fact, given the fact that my neighbors all "look out for each other" and know each other, I actually feel safer there that I did living on the East Side, where my car was broken into several times and I had friends robbed at gunpoint. Does that stuff not happen in my neighborhood? Of course it happens. It happens everywhere.

So why are people scared of my neighborhood? I have to conclude that it's because most of my neighbors are African American. Are my friends racists? Of course not. They're just overly influenced by what they see on TV and on the evening news. When was the last time you saw a positive news story come out of my part of town? I can tell you that positive things happen everyday in my neighborhood. In fact, they're the norm.

And I'm not suggesting you should be ignorant of your surroundings. When you see six young men standing around doing nothing, giving people menacing looks, this is a sign of trouble, whether you're on the North Side of Milwaukee or some cowtown in Minnesota. My point is this: there is absolutely, positively NOTHING inherently dangerous about living around black people, or being "the only white person" in places you go. Every single day I am the only white person I see in any number of places I go. Sure, every once in awhile someone gives me a funny look or treats me unfairly. This happens maybe once a month. But I figure that's their problem, not mine, and move on with my life, irrespective of what "red circle" or "blue circle" I perceive myself to be in.

Question I've been wanting to ask: is there commuter rail service between Chicago and Milwaukee ?

Yes.

Amtrak operates the Hiawatha, which shuttles back and forth between the two cities (7 trains each way per day, Monday-Saturday; 6 trains each way on Sundays). It has exeprioenced a growing ridership in recent years (enough that Amtrak added more trains for the route, and hopes to add more in the future); and it is also one of Amtrak's best-performing trains (if not the best performing) in terms of on-time arrivals and departures (most likely attributed to the relatively short distance between the two cities).

Amtrak also operates a non-commuter train, the Empire Buildier, which passes through Milwaukee on its way back and forth between Chicago and Seattle/Portland (1 train each way per day).


There is also discussion of extending commuter trains opereated by Metra (Chicago's own commuter rail system) northward from Kenosha into Milwaukee. The Metra extension would offer different service than Amtrak--slower trains, with more frequent stops, serving more and different communities. The earliest this could start running is about 2010 or so, assuming money can be found, agreements can be made, trackwork improved, etc.

In the News:

Derail DOT's Amtrak station plan
The Wisconsin Department of Transportation, working with four private sector development and construction firms, has proposed a makeover of the exterior of the 60,000-square-foot building at 433 W. St. Paul Ave., an upgrade of the interior and the addition of retail space, including a drive-through restaurant.

Everyone should read this article. It talks about the development of the current Amtrak station into a mixed-used retail project. They're looking to downsize the project, or build more than one building.

What are your opinions? One building or two?


WisDOT's plans for renovating the Amtrak station are in some ways very admirable and logical (making it an intermodal station--trains and buses, introducing retail shops, re-introducing a restaurant (the old restaurant in the station was closed several years ago, and replaced with a bank of vending machines)), however, it is also a bit overly-ambitious considering the size of the site and building.

WisDOT's proposal calls for using the existing station building, and just remodeling it inside and out. The problem is, the building is just too small to cram in all of the different uses they want to put in it. And the reason WisDOT is simply using the existing building is because it's cheaper than demolishing and building something completely new and bigger that would actually fit all of the uses being proposed.

The other problem with WisDOT's plans is the proposed fast food restaurant drive-thru window. There's nothing wrong with a fast food restaurant itself, it's the drive-thru that is the major sticking point, as it is completely inappropriate for the site and the building's intended use. There's not really any room for a drive-thru window anywhere on the site--at least not without sacrificing good architecture and urban design. Also, it doesn't make much sense to introduce such an auto-oriented feature into a building that is supposed to be catering to the needs of trains, buses, and their passengers--it's almost conterproductive because it destroys the pedestrian/transit-friendly environment that's trying to be created. And this is where the concerns of City officials comes into play (like Alderman Bauman who is opposing the current WisDOT plan). The drive-thru window requires a zoning change in order to make it legal for a drive-thru window to be built there...but certain City officials have wisely realized that a drive-thru should not belong there, period.

It would be an unwise move by WisDOT to sacrifice the chance to create an intermodal transportation center over an unwillingness to drop the drive-thru. I can see it now--the City rightfuly denies the zoning change; the fast food retailer WisDOT has lined up bails out because they can't have a drive-thru; and thus WisDOT's financing for the entire thing, which was depentant on having that fast food retailer as a tenant, falls apart; and we have to wait who knows how long before we ever get a decent station...all because of an inapropriately proposed drive-thru window.


EDIT NOTE: In all fairness, when I say "WisDOT" above, it really includes the DOT and the developers who are working with them on the station renovation project.

check out some of my recent pics of the art museum area

Recent Pics (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=166694)

Also....I know how people on this site always talk about rowhouses. I actually found a bunch of them that looked kinda nice, near Northridge.

http://img103.exs.cx/img103/6512/0109123lg.jpg
http://img103.exs.cx/img103/6083/0109154wb.jpg
http://img103.exs.cx/img103/7822/0109163pf.jpg

WisDOT's plans for renovating the Amtrak station are in some ways very admirable and logical (making it an intermodal station--trains and buses, introducing retail shops, re-introducing a restaurant (the old restaurant in the station was closed several years ago, and replaced with a bank of vending machines)), however, it is also a bit overly-ambitious considering the size of the site and building.

WisDOT's proposal calls for using the existing station building, and just remodeling it inside and out. The problem is, the building is just too small to cram in all of the different uses they want to put in it. And the reason WisDOT is simply using the existing building is because it's cheaper than demolishing and building something completely new and bigger that would actually fit all of the uses being proposed.

The other problem with WisDOT's plans is the proposed fast food restaurant drive-thru window. There's nothing wrong with a fast food restaurant itself, it's the drive-thru that is the major sticking point, as it is completely inappropriate for the site and the building's intended use. There's not really any room for a drive-thru window anywhere on the site--at least not without sacrificing good architecture and urban design. Also, it doesn't make much sense to introduce such an auto-oriented feature into a building that is supposed to be catering to the needs of trains, buses, and their passengers--it's almost conterproductive because it destroys the pedestrian/transit-friendly environment that's trying to be created. And this is where the concerns of City officials comes into play (like Alderman Bauman who is opposing the current WisDOT plan). The drive-thru window requires a zoning change in order to make it legal for a drive-thru window to be built there...but certain City officials have wisely realized that a drive-thru should not belong there, period.

It would be an unwise move by WisDOT to sacrifice the chance to create an intermodal transportation center over an unwillingness to drop the drive-thru. I can see it now--the City rightfuly denies the zoning change; the fast food retailer WisDOT has lined up bails out because they can't have a drive-thru; and thus WisDOT's financing for the entire thing, which was depentant on having that fast food retailer as a tenant, falls apart; and we have to wait who knows how long before we ever get a decent station...all because of an inapropriately proposed drive-thru window.


EDIT NOTE: In all fairness, when I say "WisDOT" above, it really includes the DOT and the developers who are working with them on the station renovation project.

What are the chances of the intermodal station being built?

In the News:
The Wisconsin Department of Transportation, working with four private sector development and construction firms, has proposed a makeover of the exterior of the 60,000-square-foot building at 433 W. St. Paul Ave., an upgrade of the interior and the addition of retail space, including a drive-through restaurant.


I really don't like that meaningless "V" on the entrance portal roofline. ...since arches are are a motif frequently used in rail terminal design, wouldn't inverting and smooting that "V" be a real improvement?

Sometimes you gotta be really careful what you wish for:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/amtrakintermodalmcd.jpg

A WaterPark In The Zoo?

(From JSOnline.com Jan 10th)

Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker wants an animal-themed water park at the Milwaukee County Zoo and is pushing a consolidation of the operations of four downtown entertainment and convention facilities.

State Of
The County

Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker will deliver the annual "state of the county" address at 10 a.m. Monday at the United Community Center, 1028 S. 9th St.
He will call for seeking bids for a privately built animal-themed water park and possibly a hotel on property owned by the county zoo.

Walker also will propose more commercial partnerships between businesses and county parks. He will push for the four major downtown entertainment venues to save costs by consolidating services.

Walker also is pledging to attract more patrons to downtown's Juneau Park and other county parks in part through commercial partnerships modeled after the successful Starbucks coffee-Red Arrow Park example near City Hall.

The county executive made those proposals, and more, today in his annual "state of the county" speech at the United Community Center.

See the whole story here:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan05/291646.asp

[]

The County has to do something drastic to get some cash flow in the parks budget, otherwise they'll have to shut down park amenities like swimming pools and tennis courts, or even start selling off parcels of parkland. What makes Milwaukee unique is not only that our parks system is run by the county, (most other places city parks are run by the city) but the County also runs the zoo and the museum. Neither are huge money makers. And parks are of course a money-losing proposition.

I'm no fan of walker, but I'm all for the zoo waterpark idea. It'll get some badly needed funds pumping into the county budget, and could become a major attraction for families from throughout the region. The Starbucks at Red Arrow Park has been a great example of how to let a private business into a public park and have it work. Hopefully with more money the County can make some improvements on some of our more well-known parks, like Lake, Juneau and Washington Parks. I for one think it's a shame the state that Washington Park is in. This Olmsted-designed park could be one of the most beautiful parks in the country. But it looks shabby and rough around the edges.

what do they mean animal themed water park? Like Disney land with rides after its charcters? If that the case..then it could a pretty nice thing for Milwaukee. It would be great for the youth in summer..great for the zoo. I dont know how big it would be..but wouldnt it compete with Noahs Ark and Wisconsin Dells? Do you have a rendering unseen? You sound pretty optimisic about it...usually forumers (outside the midwst of course!) frown upon things that are all around fun for kids in a city. Like I said, im all for it. Im all for boosting our great zoos image, which most people dont realize is one of the best in the midwest.

what do they mean animal themed water park? Like Disney land with rides after its charcters? If that the case..then it could a pretty nice thing for Milwaukee. It would be great for the youth in summer..great for the zoo. I dont know how big it would be..but wouldnt it compete with Noahs Ark and Wisconsin Dells? Do you have a rendering unseen? You sound pretty optimisic about it...usually forumers (outside the midwst of course!) frown upon things that are all around fun for kids in a city. Like I said, im all for it. Im all for boosting our great zoos image, which most people dont realize is one of the best in the midwest.

There aren't any renderings for the Zoo water park--it's just a suggestion made by County Executive Scott Walker that could help bring in revenue for the County. So yes, it would compete with Noah's Ark and all the other water park/hotel clones in Wisconsin Dells--that's the whole point--people could go to the one at the Milwaukee County Zoo instead of going to Wiscosnin Dells, which in turn brings in money for the County.

I like the waterparks in the dells..but one closer to home we be nice as well. Extra money is always a plus, granted it doesnt go into a politicians pocket. My question is...Is there the space for a water park there? I assume they are going to build on the Southern parking area...but Im curious on how big the park is going to be. I hope it has some big waterslides and such...mabye a nice lazy river to relax in! :)
I doubt this park will really take a huge chunk of the Dells...which offers way more in terms of touristy stuff. Speaking of the Dells...they are getting some nice rollercoasters there.

According to the article describing Walker's suggestions, the zoo water park/hotel could be built near the southeastern corner of W. Blue Mound and N. Mayfair roads--which would be near the northwestern corner of the zoo. There's not much of anything in that section of zoo property; it is a woodland area right now. There aren't any details about it yet because it hasn't been formally studied, which is what Walker wants to do next.

ohhhh that part. I hope they dont tear down the whole woods building this thing. I hope it blends the nature part with the waterpark part--with the slides going around the trees. Besides, it would be hypocritical tearing down a forest where lots of birds and squirells live on zoo property!

Im listening to Mark Behling right now. He's talking about the USS Des Moines. Im sure youve all heard of it...and the more I hear about it, it makes me more against it. I dont mind them placing in Milwaukee, however they demand it being located in close proximity to the Art Musuem. This cruiser is around 700 ft. long and they want it horizontal to the lake! This will totally ruin the view from Vetrans Park and the Art Museum. I know you guys, and Whitney Gould didnt like the original Pier Wisconsin...this is much worse. It will challenge not only the Art Museum, but the Pier Wisconsin/Dennis Sullivan. Its mast will block views of parts of the lake. I am having high hopes for the lakefront--with the two new towers, museum, Pier Wisconsin, Lake Express, boat racing, Wind Leaves etc...but this ship and that fairy godmother statue are going to detract in a big way. I dont understand their logic putting a WW2 era monsterous ship right next to one of the U.S. architectural jewels. I wish they would put this huge ship down by the Port--kinda by the Lake Express station, under the expressway by Jones Island. That would be a cool view off the expressway....not having to look at this hisotrical eyesore right next to our 2 new beautiful buildings. I preffer the blue shirt to putting this ship in this location. Why dont they put it in Manitowoc or Sturgeon Bay, cities that produced minesweepers, landing craft, submarines, etc...?
look at the size of this f'ing boat...700 ft of lakefront space GONE
http://img96.exs.cx/img96/1883/another20ca1346ex.jpg

Does anyone have any more details on that? Is this a vision that someone has for the boat, or they plans?

no, they (veterans) are dead serious on bringing it here....soon as possilbe. I hope they vote it down. I heard about this last year at the military airshow at the air base at mitchell. I signed a list to bring it here! However I didnt know they were going to put it right next to the Art Musuem.

The propsal to dock the USS Des Moines on Milwaukee's lakefront, as a Navy memorial and tourist attraction (i.e. tours of the ship, and even a possible bed & breakfast I think), was floated a year or two ago by some veterans groups. It would be located in Veteran's Park, closer to the kite-flying/bicycle rental shop than the Art Museum/War Memorial (so it's not really blocking view of the museum). The issue resurfaces every few months, and it is indeed heavily debated.

It is also, indeed, a horrible idea. It does not have any local relevance at all; no connection to Milwaukee or Wisconsin (i.e. it wasn't built here). It wasn't even a wartime ship, so it did not fight in any battles. It would block lake views--forget about the tall masts for a while and just consider the body of the ship itself would rise up above the lakewall a good distance. Also, docking the ship would require certain infrastructure to be added to the proposed location in Veteran's Park (i.e. lighting, fencing, and parking--all of which would intrude on the exisitng lakefront greenspace. It would also be horribly expensive to fix up, tow to Milwaukee, and then upkeep once it gets here.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jan05/desmoines010805.jpg

^ Here is a rendering of the USS Des Moines berthed at Veteran's Park. Note it does not show the other site "improvements" that would be needed (lighting, fencing, etc.).

And here are some recent articles and letters about the ship proposal from the Journal Sentinel:

Deep-six plan for docking USS Des Moines (http://www.jsonline.com/news/editorials/jan05/288624.asp)

Is USS Des Moines a good fit for Milwaukee? - Sunday Symposium (http://www.jsonline.com/news/editorials/jan05/290984.asp) (also be sure to check out the links in the sidebar for some previous articles about the ship)

Yeah I really hope they reconsider the location and direction of this ship if they bring it here. If they are not going to make an alternative location they just shouldnt really bring it here. Not in disrespect of our veterans, but still, the view of the lake you get from the Calatrava(sp?) Expansion is priceless, and a ship should not block it. It would be poor planning, really poor planning IMO :(

It seems like a bad idea all around, I'm shuddering just thinking about having that docked and blocking views from Veteran's Park (or any other location near downtown).

I agree with Markitect...this ship has no ties to Milwaukee really. If it were the U.S.S Wisconsin (a badass battleship) it would be a complely different thing. However, that ship is way too big to get through the St. Lawrence Seaway. This ship is called the Des Moines...the capitol and largest city of IOWA!! This ship will ruin Vetrans Park...it will ruin that path where lots of joggers run and where people hang out in the summer. They should put it in Kenosha or Racine..not at Milwaukees most popular city parks.


on the subject..what do you think of Americas Freedom Center?

http://img82.exs.cx/img82/7391/westview0dg.jpg
http://img82.exs.cx/img82/4602/lakeview2np.jpg
http://img82.exs.cx/img82/9404/fountainview2ze.jpg
http://img82.exs.cx/img82/7271/arielview4yu.jpg
http://img82.exs.cx/img82/4465/afcexterior1lj.jpg

The building and gardens are cool, but the entrance near the art museum is horrible. All thats there now is a surface parking lot..so Im all for it. The museum itself is really nice..looking at the info about it.

Is there anyone out there that thinks USS Des Moines is a good idea? Some veterans have been quoted as saying they're for it, but I've seen just as many veterans saying it doesn't make any sense.

At any rate, I doubt this one will get off the ground. The group behind it has raised only a fraction of the millions of dollars required just to acquire it -- to say nothing of restoration and relocation to Milwaukee.

^well thats good news. These guys are probally good people, but I doubt older veterans know much about the beauty of buildings and their surroundings.

The proposed America's Freedom Center (post-9/11 super-patriotic name for "addition to War Memorial building") would be better suited for a site on the Veteran's Administration grounds, which in fact, is curently under consideration accorind to an Journal Sentinel article earlier this week: Veterans group considers relocating planned freedom center from lakefront (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan05/292204.asp).

I cant lie..it looks kinda cool by the lake. I like the hanging gardens...and the gardens overlooking the lake. The building itself is pretty cool too. I dont know about the VA land....It seems too far away from everything. If they make the Valley this entertainment district...then I probally would go for that. I would preffer they go through with that plan to have a rail that would go from Miller Park to the lake. I hope they come up with a cool design for the Harley Museum as well. What other developments are they trying to get down there?

The name alone is a travesty.

I'm in favor of cooling lakefront development by Lincoln Memorial for a while. The options they spoke about for relocation seems more beneficial for the group, especially if they actually want the project to be built.

The lakefront will always be a envious location for development, why not push the area of the valley from Miller Park to the lakefront? Where is the city in all of this?

As for the design of the Freedom Center, if they do chose to build there I hope they come up with a better plan for the area. I understand the idea of wanting to have it partially underground to preserve some park space, if that is why the design is like that, but it's pretty ugly to look at. (sorry ReddAlert I just can't handle it)

lol ^
its not THAT bad! Like I said, I love the gardens and how it fits nicely in that spot by the War Memorial. I dont dig the name or entrance. The building is alright..it doesnt try to take away from anything-like the previous Pier Wisconsin did.

These projects, while they may be good for the city, spark the debate over a more coherent, controlled vision for the lakefront and park system. These things really need to be planned accordingly, keeping in mind that the quality, beauty, functionability of our lakefront and parks should not be sacrificed for a bunch of tourist attractions. These projects must tread carefully or they won't happen.

The planned exhibits inside the AFC (there's a walk-through on the AFC website (http://www.americasfreedomcenter.org)) are very interesting, but I don't really care for how they've essentially burried the entire thing underground--especially on the lake side, a good chunk of it just looks like a big grassy mound, which also destroys the "hovering" effect of the War Memorial in the background (evident in the renderings showing the view from the lakefront and Lincoln Memorial Drive).

I also think the building's entry is rather awkward, almost an after thought, tucked into the retaining wall along the plaza, beneath the Mason Street Bridge. Meanwhile at the other end of the building, there's this glassy, cyclindrical-type form highlighted by some kind of decorative pylons, as if to signify that it's some important part of the building, like a bold front entrance--yet there's not an entryway there at all. It's like they did all this stuff, and put all those doodads on there as if to highlight it as something significant, and it turns out to be nothing at all.

The name is indeed quite silly; I don't know why they just don't associate it as part of the War Memorial anyway, since it's basically an addition onto the building. It'd be great if it could be some sort of low-slung building, like the Art Museum addition--that way it wouldn't detract from the lake or the War Memorial.

The lakefront is like the front yard of the city--few people want to see it mucked up with tacky lawn ornaments. That's why all the lakefront development is such a hot topic.

The lakefront will always be a envious location for development, why not push the area of the valley from Miller Park to the lakefront? Where is the city in all of this?

The City has been pretty quiet concerning these proposed lakefront developments because they are all on County-owned land within Coutny Parks. The City doesn't get much say into what can and can't be done there.

speaking of lawn ornaments..whats your take on the Circus statue Markitect? Personally, I think it belongs in Baraboo or DisneyLand. I am much more in favour of Wind Leaves. Also, what do you guys think of the new Brady St. Bridge so far? I still kinda miss the old pedestrian bridge...but this one looks nice so far. I have heard its going to be a pedestrian bridge and a road bridge...how is this going to work?

"Wind Leaves" is by far a much better than the Circus Parade statue.

The new Brady Street pedestrian bridge over Lincoln Memorial Drive is a vast improvement and much more elegant than the utilitarian chunk of concrete that was there before, but it is not going to be a road bridge.

whoa im going to ruin my post count--which if you read this will be one after my birth date 6-26

anyway...Im really glad that the bridge isnt going to be a road one. I heard that it was going to be both...maybe that was something else I was think of. Good news Markitect...Im happy you, and probally everyone else agree with me on that statue thing.

I feel like I live on this site...it seems like I never leave! :)

Quarles in quest for new downtown office tower
Six sites emerge as Milwaukee law firm reviews its options

"...The law firm sent a request for qualifications to 16 Milwaukee and Chicago developers in late December. It will whittle down the list to five that will be asked to submit proposals for a new downtown office building, which would be the first new building in downtown since Cathedral Place, 555 E. Wells St. was built in 2003. The RFQ responses are due Jan. 7..."
CLICK FOR LINK (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/01/10/story1.html?page=2)

The firm is looking at these six locations:
--A parking structure U.S. Bank owns that is attached to the south of the 42-story U.S. Bank Center, 777 E. Wisconsin Ave., the city's largest and tallest office building.
--A second U.S. Bank property at 909 E. Michigan St., which is currently used by Milwaukee County Transit System as its downtown transit center.
--Irgens Development Partners, Wauwatosa, is pushing its proposed Ovation Plaza for the parking structure north of the Marcus Center for the Performing Arts on North Water Street.
--Milwaukee developer Joe Lee's downtown parking lots across street from The Pfister Hotel on the corner of North Jackson and East Mason streets.
--Lee's parking lot on the northeast corner of North Jackson and East Michigan streets. Lee is the president of Van Buren Management and is one of the developers of Cathedral Place.
--A parking structure adjacent to the 1000 North Water Street office building, 1000 N. Water St., which is owned and managed by Anthony Palermo, a Milwaukee real estate investor.

Out of these six locations which do you think would be the most appropriate?

I'm going to agree with the writer of the column and say that the parking structure next to the US Bank site would the best. What a great location for an office tower with views. Throw in a hotel (which would be nice) and we have a great project. (very optimistic I know)

What are everyones thoughs?

More News:
Two firms trying to buy 411 building
The 654,000-square-foot building, 411 E. Wisconsin Ave., the second largest downtown Milwaukee office building, is owned by New York City-based Teachers Insurance & Annuity Association/College Retirement Equities Fund and has an assessed value of $89.2 million link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/01/10/story2.html)

Downtown Howard Johnson may change brands
DeForrest said the hotel's owners are planning a major renovation and brand repositioning for the Howard Johnson. Lane Hospitality will work with the owners to determine the best course of action for the limited service hotel at 176 W. Wisconsin Ave. link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/01/10/daily7.html)

cool...I agree with that area. Are they talking about building a skyscraper like the U.S. Bank tower, or a lower rise one--like the one that was built right next to the bank tower recently? Its cool news either way. :) I doubt it will be our next tallest, but a condo/hotel/offices are great.

Speaking of Cathedral Place, what a great building compared to the ones they had built previosly.

cool...I agree with that area. Are they talking about building a skyscraper like the U.S. Bank tower, or a lower rise one--like the one that was built right next to the bank tower recently? Its cool news either way. :) I doubt it will be our next tallest, but a condo/hotel/offices are great.


Specifics about a possible new office building aren't mentioned in the article at all. The law firm looking into it, Quarels & Brady (which would be the anchor tenant), just recently sent out a request for proposals to different developers a few weeks ago, so this is very very very early on the process. Not to mention a single site still needs to be whittled down from six possible locations. Plus, there is still a possibilty the law firm may stay at its current location.

All of the possible locations seem at least somewhat appropriate for a mixed-use office building, but I think the Ovation Plaza would be a smart choice. It's in the heart of Downtown, right across from 1000 North Water. It's already been designed, at least somewhat (there are renderings in the archived "What About Milwaukee?" thread), since it was an early contender for the GE Healthcare headquarters (which opted for a new campus in Wauwatosa instead). The site currently contains the parking garage for the Marcus Center for the Performing Arts, which is financially supported by Milwaukee County. Redeveloping the site could be tied into the public-private partnerships County Exec. Walker was getting at in his "State of the County" address earlier this week.

You Milwaukee people are taking this news so casually...with office tower proposals being so rare.
I really hope this is serious.

That would be so cool! Kilbourn, UV Club, possible lafayette, and maybe, just maybe a contender to the bank.

WOOT!
:eek2:

You Milwaukee people are taking this news so casually...with office tower proposals being so rare.
I really hope this is serious.

Quite honestly, and I've pointed this out before, the local media often seems to have an odd defintion of "tower." I've seen it used to describe 30+ story buildings. I've seen it used to describe 7-story buildings. That being said, there's not really enough information available to get too excited over this Quarels & Brady thing yet.

And tower proposals (be they office, residential, or mixed) haven't been all that rare around here in the past 5 or so years. And some of them even got built.

That would be so cool! Kilbourn, UV Club, possible lafayette, and maybe, just maybe a contender to the bank

No possible Lafayette Place--that was cancelled over a year ago. Couldn't get the financing.

I wish they would have built River Tower or Wisconsin/Broadway Tower instead...even though Layfayette place was a tall building.

You Milwaukee people are taking this news so casually...with office tower proposals being so rare.
I really hope this is serious.Well anytime you get news like this it is exciting but Milwaukee has had many of these types of news stories that didn't pan out and that's why we'll be happy with these news stories but not doing cartwheels at the same time.

First we had Mr. Palermo back in the 90's saying when the market was right for it he wanted to build a 30 story office tower on top of the parking structure of his 1000 N Water building. That didn't happen. Then we had the Broadway/Wisconsin 24 story office tower that was proposed a few years ago but they couldn't find enough tenants. After that we had the 16 to 18 story Ovation tower proposal. It;s been somewhat of a mystery what is going on with that one but I'm sure it has to do with not being able to find enough tenants. Because of these proposals I take this latest news with a grain of salt. I wish them the best but where were they when these other proposals were up in the air?

No possible Lafayette Place--that was cancelled over a year ago. Couldn't get the financing.
Plus they knew they would've had a big fight on their hands with the locals, right?

First we had Mr. Palermo back in the 90's saying when the market was right for it he wanted to build a 30 story office tower on top of the parking structure of his 1000 N Water building. That didn't happen. Then we had the Broadway/Wisconsin 24 story office tower that was proposed a few years ago but they couldn't find enough tenants. After that we had the 16 to 18 story Ovation tower proposal. It;s been somewhat of a mystery what is going on with that one but I'm sure it has to do with not being able to find enough tenants.

Palmero's "second tower" proposal for 1000 N. Water resurfaces every once in a while. It was first mentioned in the 1990s, and again when GE Healthcare was looking at space downtown, and now again for Quarels & Brady. So far, nobody seems all that interested in it.

The proposed Broadway/Wiscosnin tower was also a hopeful contender for GE Healthcare. But, as we've been through before, the site sits within a historic district, so demolition of the existing 1860s-70s-era buildings is unlikely. I think this proposal is pretty much dead.

Ovation Plaza was also a contender for GE Healthcare until the firm decided to locate in Wauwatosa instead. The developers put this tower on the back burner for a while, but are now working with the City and actively seeking tenants again--which is another possibility for Quarels & Brady.

So yeah, these proposals have everything to do with the market and finding tenants. No tenant, no money, no building.

Plus they knew they would've had a big fight on their hands with the locals, right?

Yes, developers of Lafayette had to face strong (and rightfully justified) opposition of the tower from neighborhood residents. The most recent incarnation of the tower had already been shortened from its original height in an effort to appease the neighborhood.

Did you guys read about the planetarium in the Cue section of the Sunday paper? Its going to have the best technology in the world....only matched by ones in NY, LA, and China. Im really excited about this, just curious what your thoughts are about it?

Planetarium (http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/arts/jan05/293016.asp)

btw...is Rivertower officially dead?

http://img149.exs.cx/img149/2411/120milwaukeerivertower5gs.jpg

this was a really cool, sleek looking building. I think it would have been a huge plus to the downtown. Where was this going to be located anyway? I assume on the Milwaukee River..but what part?

nevermind.....lol.i just noticed that pink/purple window building in back.

The planetarium will be a great addition to the Milw. Public Museum, hopefully raising its profile nationally. I bring out of town visitors there a lot, and everyone is always really impressed with it. It rivals any other history museum in the US.

River Tower is long dead. It was to go on the site of a wholesale florist right on the Milw. River between Kilbourn and State. They didn't pre sell enough units to get financing to build the thing. I believe a scaled-down version could work better.

Im very pleased with the things we are getting here now. We arent getting some 1000 ft tower..but we are getting little things that makes the city more intresting. Pier Wisconsin will benefit our sailing community and people who like everything else asscoiated with the waters. The Planetarium will benefit the astronomical society...probally througout the Midwest. The Market will boost the Milwaukee culinary experience. The valley is getting a makeover from being an industrial wasteland....we are getting a great looking interchange...new entertainment venues..such as the PabstCity, condo boom, new museums, public art..etc. Overall, Im pretty happy on whats going on in the city.

Same here, I am glad to see such developements. While no city is perfect, at least milwaukee is moving in the correct direction

BTW the Airport Amtrak Station opens alas tommorow :)

I found another rending of the downtown Amtrak rendering, I think this one may be older but I like it more:
http://my.execpc.com/~sponholz/milwdepot.JPG

These are the most recent pics I could find of the station, anyone have newer ones? These are from December, and they're off the DOT site.

ps Frank Lloyd Wright called, he wants his designs back...

http://www.milwaukee.gov/display/displayFile.asp?filename=/User/leburt/witkoAmtrackphotolarge.jpg
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/state/images/gmia-12-1.jpg
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/state/images/gmia-12-2.jpg
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/state/images/gmia-12-3.jpg
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/state/im
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/state/images/gmia-12-5.jpg

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jan05/milwaukee-logo.jpg
Seeking to burnish Milwaukee’s image, a non-profit group is about to unveil a new brand for the area - a logo that depicts the Milwaukee Art Museum’s soaring "brise soleil" and no tag line other than the simple word, "Milwaukee."

Link: http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan05/294128.asp

What you think?

Personally I like it, it might be my new logo.

I love it! You wouldnt be mad if I took the same avatar would you Eastsider?

You can have it ReddAlert, I'm going to keep mine.

im just playin Eastsider.....I may keep Snoop around a little longer....perhaps I may change to the new image later on. :)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jan05/milwaukee-logo.jpg


What you think?



Doesn't that look like a bayonet sticking out the top? Seriously, I think the design is barely recognizable as the art museum, much less as any kind of evocation of Milwaukee. It also seems more '20s than 2000's. I think this is being promoted by the same folks who gave us that interesting (blech, vomit) redo of the milwaukee auditorium exterior, so I'd be cautious about their aesthetic predelictions.

I would agree, except for the fact that I completely disagree with you.

lol

Doesn't that look like a bayonet sticking out the top? Seriously, I think the design is barely recognizable as the art museum, much less as any kind of evocation of Milwaukee. It also seems more '20s than 2000's. I think this is being promoted by the same folks who gave us that interesting (blech, vomit) redo of the milwaukee auditorium exterior, so I'd be cautious about their aesthetic predelictions.

like citygod, i completely disagree with you. the graphic is ridiculously recognizable as the art museum addition. if it were anymore recognizable, it would be a photograph of the place.

and whether or not anyone likes it, the calatrava art museum addition has most definitely become THE symbol of milwaukee. there isn't even any use trying to fight it. the art museum is milwaukee and milwaukee is now the art museum. this is the image which people around the country will conjure in their minds when they hear the word "milwaukee".

i think it's a great looking symbol and very befitting for milwaukee.

You guys have been spending too much time staring into the sun watching that brise soleil open and close.
Of course the Calatrava is now Milwaukee's icon. Who says not? And it's a good one.
But you already have to be awfully familiar with it (as we no doubt are) to recognize it in that poster, which in no sense evokes the graceful embracing fluidity of the building. If the art museum evokes Milwaukee, and this design barely represents the art museum, well, you figure it out.
I stand by my warning about the aesthetic standards of the promoters of this design. If the exterior of the Milwaukee Theater doesn't upset you, then you may not see what I'm getting at.
I think much, much better better results can be obtained using the Calatrava in a new Milwaukee logo. This one seems ill considered and hastily promoted, and is really worse than its recent predecessors.

Addendum:
Smaller may be better
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jan05/visitmilwaukee-logo-125.jpg
Better typeface too, but I still don't think it will fly.

they already got that logo on the State Fair screeen. I think its cool..it makes Milwaukee look more modern.

I like it much better than what Eastsiders logo is....no offense. It was just a circle that said Genuine American City...something that could be said of any city such as Des Moines, Wichita, or Harrisburg, PA. This is a great building to be identified with, it makes look like a more "cool" city...I think it should represent the city, not the government...as the old one is still cool because it has our greatest building and center of government.
http://img153.exs.cx/img153/1651/milwaukeelogo1mh.jpg

> It was just a circle that said Genuine American City
Not to mention a lot could mistake it for a beer cap.

I like the proposed design, like others said it promotes Milwaukee's new direction as a city, focusing on modern aspects. However I hate throwing the history away. I wish we could see something mixing them both...

City approves lease for Kenilworth development
The Redevelopment Authority will lease the 500,000-square-foot Kenilworth Building from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, then lease the property back to the state after it’s been redeveloped into student housing, classrooms and retail space. The state’s rent payments to the authority will pay off $68 million in bonds that the authority will sell to finance the project.
link (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jan05/294885.asp)

Editorial: Editorial: Not your grandpa’s logo
A view on the proposed logo. Also just a note my avator is the current logo for the city it looks like.
The new logo a non-profit promotional group, Spirit of Milwaukee Inc., has come up with - featuring a representation of the stunning Santiago Calatrava addition to the Milwaukee Art Museum - makes it clear that this isn’t your grandfather’s town anymore.
link (http://www.jsonline.com/news/editorials/jan05/294500.asp)

here's a better pic of the logo as well:
http://www.metromilwaukee.org/images/new/mark.gif

Milwaukee Athletic Club seeks proposals to develop parking garage
The Milwaukee Athletic Club is seeking a developer to convert the club's Milwaukee Street parking structure and an adjacent surface lot into the next downtown office, condominium and retail building.
link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/01/17/story2.html)

Casino could neighbor Bradley Center
Representatives of the Bradley Center are talking with the Forest County Potawatomi about the possibility of developing a casino near the downtown Milwaukee sports and entertainment venue.
link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/01/17/story3.html)

Also just a note, if you guys get annoyed with me posting all these articles, feel free to tell me :)

I always like your posts Eastsider...keep up the good information gathering.

Say hello to the Blizzard of '05' everybody! :)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jan05/snow012205.jpg

Also just a note, if you guys get annoyed with me posting all these articles, feel free to tell me :)

Not annoyed at all EastSider. If it wasn't for you posting these articles I never would've seen this statment in print for I think the very first time.
"With the revival of downtown in full swing, we think this is the opportune time to look at proposals,"
I guess downtown Milwaukee's revival is official now! Of course we already knew that to be true.

The quote was taken from the Bizjournal article on the Milwaukee Club Parking garage proposal. This looks very promising, lets hope they're innovative.

Thanks for the replies, and Neph thanks for the picture, that is awesome.

http://img114.exs.cx/img114/2783/0122300kg.jpg

Looks like your dog had fun in the snow! :)

i wasn't in town for the storm, how much is the total snow fall?

11.4 at Mitchell International, but larger amounts in a lot of outlying areas, I think Waukesha got 13 in.?

Speaking of snow, it's starting again.

Quick question:
Anyone know about the condo development (I think its condos) going up downtown on Ogden and something? (I forgot the other street, but its directly in the heart of where most of the condos are, directly downtown near the new Kern Center.)

I was by there the other day and saw a sign up on the grounds, and it looked like construction had started on something. Anyways the quick glance of the rendering that I got looked interested, tell me if you know anything. :)

Those are the 601 Lofts. (http://www.601lofts.com)

Thanks Markitect, I'm really liking the design. Any information on completion dates?

The mayor announced today that he was looking for Bold, Innovative proposals for the City's portion of a the Park East Project. Anyone have any opinions on whether we're going to see any in the near future?

Speaking of the 601...Ogden's kind of morphed into an even yuppie-er Brady, methinks. I like it.

^I'm liking the area, minus the nasty stripmall disguised as a urban development...For real though, I see good things. That leads me to a something.

Quick question if anyone feels like answering:
Am I the only one who takes pride in the fact that we're building medium-density residential housing, or low-highrises in the city instead of sweating over the fact that we should be building high-rises? When I see new, healthy residential developments going up I feel positive about the fact that we're infilling with quality, and not sweating over the height.

Or am I way off base?

Well, either way is pretty good. A long list of buildings look like these popping up all over the place will definitely turn things around on the cosmetic front, but a high-rise, while it looks very impressive, is the ultimate for denisity, quality and space saving all in one.

Not every condo or apartment building being built has to be or can be a Kilbourne Tower. As long as the designs of the buildings are smart and innovative I'll be pleased with what's happening. So far that's mostly the case. EastSider, I don't think your off base at all.

from onmilwaukee.com....
__________________________________

AVALON THEATER RUMORS....AGAIN

Word on KK Avenue is that the Avalon Theater, 2469-83 S. Kinnickinnic Ave., which has been a centerpiece of Bay View's renewal hopes for a number of years, is being sold to an investor who plans to lease the theater to Landmark and offer retail space to Schwartz Bookshops.

But if a change is imminent, interested parties are remaining tight-lipped, and while it seems clear that Schwartz and Landmark have looked at the Avalon, the sale of the building remains little more than a rumor that's gaining momentum among neighborhood businesses.

“We’re just looking, it doesn’t really mean anything,” said Deb Tzortzos, Landmark’s Midwest district manager, of Landmark's interest in the Avalon. “We looked and that’s it. I don’t have anything to tell, really. I guess it’s ‘no comment,’ since there isn’t anything to say.” Tzortzos also said that Landmark generally doesn't buy theaters, preferring instead to lease them.


Craig Ellsworth, of Avalon Investments, which owns the building, refused to comment when reached via telephone.

Schwartz Bookshops considered opening a Bay View location in 1999, when late owner A. David Schwartz looked at the Avalon building before opting instead to open a Racine location. However, a source, who requested anonymity, said although the company has been scouting Bay View locations, the Avalon location is far from a done deal and other locations are still being considered.

Schwartz CEO and Vice President Mary McCarthy would also not go on record about Schwartz's efforts to find a Bay View location.

The Avalon ceased showing films in 2000. After a number of deals to re-open the Avalon as a movie theater or as a concert venue failed, it appeared a done deal that the building would be converted into office space, quashing the hopes of neighborhood residents dreaming of a renovated movie palace in Bay View.

The Avalon Theater, the city's last remaining atmospheric movie house (with twinkling lights in the ceiling to recreate an outdoor vibe) was designed by Milwaukee architect, and Frank Lloyd Wright disciple, Russ Barr Williamson. It was built in 1929.

Calls to Landmark's Los Angeles headquarters were not returned by press time.

^
Am I the only one who takes pride in the fact that we're building medium-density residential housing, or low-highrises in the city instead of sweating over the fact that we should be building high-rises?

Or am I way off base?

I feel the same way. Milwaukee isnt a high rise city in my opinion...
These other cities dwell so much on tall buildings its almost sickning. Some have based their whole image of Milwaukee on its "weak" skyline--which I happen to like. I think a lot of these condos dotting the Milwaukee River is great. Id rather have alot more neighborhoods like the Beerline or Third Ward than some lifeless emerald city like Houston. We are getting two tall buildings--both are great and add to the skyline.

AVALON THEATER RUMORS....AGAIN

i saw a merrionette version of "the telltale heart" there a few years back.

fuckin' a.

:cheers:

I love the low rise neighborhoods we have going in. The Fifth Ward will be the next booming area. I think bringing back a population density to our downtown area will bring back home offices that fled with the population to the suburbs. This will translate into the high rise towers. I still feel Milwaukee needs two 600-700 foot signature buildings downtown though. Got my fingers crossed.