Can the Bay Adelaide stump be far behind? Has there been any news about the stump lately?

Well, Trump and Saphire are condos/hotel developments....B/A is an office tower.

Two different markets all together....the two are not connected in any way.

Brookfield has purchased Trizec's share of the project, and they are serious office developers....but until they get a lead tennant big enough to start the project, we won't see anything. If they find a lead tennant next week...it might get built right away...or it could be years...it all depends.

The north part of the site is where we will most likey to see something happen...this is where they can build a very tall residential tower. And the most likely contender to upset both Trump and Saphire.

Trump and Saphire will represent the famous rivalry between 40 Wall and the Vhrysler building....the BA condo project may be the perverbial Epire State Building to the scenario...upsetting both of them a short period after.






KGB

I can't wait to watch these big towers rise!

jonovision?!? - I HATE THAT SHOW. The host needs to be slaped. Quiet possible the worse Canadian programming the CBC has to offer.

Jonovision, wtf are you talking about? I know what the show is but you must have chosen the wrong thred to post it in.

How many Trump/Sapphire threads do we need?

Brookfield has purchased Trizec's share of the project, and they are serious office developers....but until they get a lead tennant big enough to start the project, we won't see anything. If they find a lead tennant next week...it might get built right away...or it could be years...it all depends.

KGB
Who are the possible lead tenants? That would have to be a pretty huge company, and with the trend towards moving office work to the lower tax 905 region, how likely is this ever to happen?

*** Jaybird Alert ***

Who are the possible lead tenants? That would have to be a pretty huge company, and with the trend towards moving office work to the lower tax 905 region, how likely is this ever to happen?

Well.... we've been waiting over 10 years now - so one day, but probably not in the near future.

Maybe if they made Bay/Adelaide to be a condo/hotel it would have a more likely chance of coming to be.

"Who are the possible lead tenants? That would have to be a pretty huge company, and with the trend towards moving office work to the lower tax 905 region, how likely is this ever to happen? "


Well, the "trend" doesn't matter...do you really believe that no-one will ever want AAA financial centre building with their name on it ever again? Of course there will be. Brookfield would not bother getting involved...they are one of the major players in that business.






"Maybe if they made Bay/Adelaide to be a condo/hotel it would have a more likely chance of coming to be"


Well, there are two building sites...one for hotel/condo...and for a large office tower. Brookfield is in the buisiness of building both, but I doubt they will give up on the office space...way too much profit on office buildings....they will build the condo tower...and probably just be patient with office tower.







KGB

I hope they all get built. Maybe Ritz will go into it.

I think the Ritz was already planning for another site...

In the Condo section of today's Toronto Star newspaper, there's a small article on the Sapphire Tower. In it, Stinson is quoted as saying that Sapphire is 25% sold.

Taking into consideration the project's incarnation as Downtown Plaza Hotel, Sapphire has been on the market since Spring 2003. So it's taken 1.5 years to sell 25% of the units. If developers like to start construction after 70% has been sold, we're a LOOOOOOONG way off from it.

In the same section of the paper, there are 2 articles about the Trump Tower. Great reading if you want to learn about the real money behind his Toronto project.

I think if his 1 King project turns out to be successful in terms of a hotel-rental investment, and if trump is successful in attracting investors...then i think it might be a plus for Saphire as an investment for those who find Trump too rich for their blood...it's only a block away after all.

And remember...it's 25% of over 1000 units....in terms of actual number of units, it's not bad.

Too many if's though.






KGB

I wonder if that includes the 100 units Harry owns himself.

At this point, it seems that Trump will be built while Sapphire is somewhat less of sure thing.

BA is a rather complicated storey.

At this point, it seems that Trump will be built while Sapphire is somewhat less of sure thing.


Sapphire WILL be built, don't you worry about that.

Just be prepared to endure 4 more years of half-hour infomercials during ungodly hours of the night.

"during ungodly hours of the night."


I never quite understood that phrase.

So...is that like, when god is on his break or something?






KGB

Maybe it has to do with all ungodly religious crazies who end up on television at that time.

Personally speaking, I love those ungodly hours - whether they have anything to do with god or not.

Maybe if they made Bay/Adelaide to be a condo/hotel it would have a more likely chance of coming to be.

I hope they don't. The city has to ensure prime space for future offices.

i think bay adelaide will become an egyptian pyramid

I hope they don't. The city has to ensure prime space for future offices.

This is the type of ideology I hate. It's a very similar position the city government took with respect to Scarborough Center....

how many egyptians do u hafta hire to turn bay-adelaide into a pyramid?

This is the type of ideology I hate. It's a very similar position the city government took with respect to Scarborough Center....

Just look at the problem they are having in Vancouver.

This is the type of ideology I hate. It's a very similar position the city government took with respect to Scarborough Center....

Let's not forget MCC. MCC had no development for almost 10 years because of this.

Just look at the problem they are having in Vancouver.

Problem? ...please elaborate.

^I think what Roch5220 was getting at was the lack of commercial floorspace in Vancouver.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, in this case, Brookfield has the best of both worlds...one site for a big office tower and one site for a massive condo tower. Brookfield is a patient company...they are more than happy to wait until a lead tennent shows up...they aren't about to give up that kind of location with it's long-term revenue.

And in the meantime, they can make a fast return by developing a massive 800,000 sqft condo tower.






KGB

^I think what Roch5220 was getting at was the lack of commercial floorspace in Vancouver.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Obviously... it's simply because the demand is not there. Does that mean the land should remain vaccant until the office market picks up like Scarborough Center? Or allow development to take place and when an office market does picks up, skyscrapers will be built to satisfy demand. Due to the scarcity land available, they would be taller and more dense whereas zoning large all-commercial areas will lead to big box stores like the new Price Choppers in what was suppose to be "downtown Scarborough." Maybe a suburban office campus or if you're really lucky, a 15-storey box.

By allowing development, it also leads to mixed-use communties as opposed all commercial districts which are vaccant after 6pm or all day on weekends. keeping parcels of land vacant forever, just wating for tall skyscrapers to come along has been proven time and time again not to work. It's similar to the planning ideology coming out of the 60s and 70s.

^Agreed, my comment was only a suposition.

When/if a demand exists in a maxed out area, other things can be done to relieve the demand.

^ Ya.. sorry. :)

www.trumptoronto.ca

Obviously... it's simply because the demand is not there. Does that mean the land should remain vaccant until the office market picks up like Scarborough Center? Or allow development to take place and when an office market does picks up, skyscrapers will be built to satisfy demand. \................

There is enough land/parking lots to satsify condo demand. Leaving a couple of parcels of land in the core to accomadate future growth isn't limiting growth or stifiling demand. I think it makes perfect sence to leave room, once its gone, its gone. MCC is a different beast, there are a lot of factors that have worked against it, ie., crap public transit/traffic, etc.

"There is enough land/parking lots to satsify condo demand."

These same parcels of land can also be used for office development. Unless you want to have strict segregation between office and residential areas which is a mistake IMO.

"Obviously... it's simply because the demand is not there. Does that mean the land should remain vaccant until the office market picks up like Scarborough Center? Or allow development to take place and when an office market does picks up, skyscrapers will be built to satisfy demand. "

A condominium tower is about as permanant a structure as a monument/landmark - who interested in property for (re)-development wants to deal with a corporation of hundreds of individual owners

A commercial skyscraper is a massive investment - even in a hot market securing multiple tenants to statify lenders for a 50 storey, one million plus building is extremely hard (thinking one large tenant will come along in Toronto's market is unrealistic)

I don't care for mixed-use buidlings (retail/entertianment excluded) and also believe the current popularity won't last

Finally, Scarborough Centre is not downtown