A380- News/Events [Archive]

scorpion

December 21st, 2004, 10:00 AM

Super threat to Boeing crown

December 21, 2004

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Focus/images/airbus1_1221.jpg

A model of the first-class bar and sitting room of the new Airbus A380. The world's largest commercial jetliner is due to begin its test flight next month and the company hopes the 450,000-kilogram behemoth will silence its critics in the airline industry.

Its wings stretch nearly the length of a football field, about 15 metres longer than any plane in the air today. Nose to tail, it is longer than two blue whales. Inside the cabin, it has room for at least 550 passengers - and as many as 1,000.

The world's largest commercial aircraft - the Airbus A380 - sits in a factory at Toulouse in southwestern France, awaiting its unveiling next month. Then in the spring, it faces a critical flight test that Airbus SAS hopes will answer naysayers' questions about the 450,000-kilogram behemoth.

Safety experts have raised concerns about how airlines will be able to evacuate so many passengers in an emergency. Pilots worry whether runways are wide enough to accommodate the huge jet in the event of an engine failure.

Airports are spending millions of dollars to strengthen taxiways and build double-decker jet bridges for quick boarding to avoid cramped terminals.

The A380 poses a profound threat to Boeing's crown jewel, the 747, which has reigned as the largest passenger plane for the past 30 years. It symbolises the latest blow to Boeing's once-predominant position in aircraft manufacturing. Airbus, which receives funding from four European countries, surpassed Boeing last year to become the world's biggest maker of commercial airplanes.

The US$12 billion (HK$93.6-billion) superjumbo, already US$2 billion over budget, offers luxury options never enjoyed aboard a commercial airliner. Passengers will be greeted on the lower deck not by a cramped galley but by a wide staircase to the upper level where first- and business-class passengers will be seated. Each first-class seat will fold open into a bed stretching the depth of two or three rows of coach. On the lower deck, the coach section will look similar to airlines today, with just an extra inch of width in each seat. Airbus envisions that airlines will use the ample space aboard the long-haul plane for cocktail lounges, waterfall fountains and private suites that serve as in-air bedrooms and double as business meeting areas.

The Airbus A380 is ``the new modern airplane of the future'', said John Leahy, an American who is Airbus' executive vice-president for customer affairs. ``Just like the 747, it changed the way we flew so we could cross oceans and it gave us more space. [The A380] will be more the mentality of a cruise ship ... to get up, have a drink, visit with some friends.''

But sceptics doubt many airlines will invest in costly luxuries when they place their orders. Instead, they say, the carriers will likely want to cram as many passengers aboard as possible to maximise profit.

Several United States airline executives and consultants said its size will result in passengers feeling like cattle - first crammed into an airport terminal and then slowly loaded onto the aircraft. ``What's in it for me to sit on an airplane with 500 other people, wait for my bags with 500 other people, check in with 500 other people?'' Continental Airlines chief executive Gordon Bethune asked a travel industry group last year.

Airbus is convinced the aircraft is the right model for increasingly congested skies and shifting patterns of global wealth. As crowded international hubs begin to limit the number of flights from each carrier, Airbus believes the A380 - with 144 more seats than the 747 - will be regarded as the more profitable aircraft.

``There will be quite a few more people flying than today,'' Leahy said. ``We can't just keep putting people into more and more airplanes.''

Airbus envisions vast increases in air travel in Asia and the Middle East, with much slower growth in the US. The company hopes to sell more than half of its superjumbos to airlines in developing nations in Asia, where a growing middle class doesn't fly very much now but increasingly has the financial means to do so. Executives point to figures that show China's aviation industry is rapidly expanding, with an expected growth of 8.5 per cent annually over the next several years.

By contrast, Americans fly more often per capita than any other travellers in the world, but growth in passenger traffic has largely matured at a 2.7 per cent annual rate. Although many foreign carriers plan to fly the jet into some US airports, Airbus does not expect early orders for the US$250 million aircraft from financially struggling US carriers. Cargo company FedEx is the American exception. It has ordered 10 cargo versions.

The megaplane broadens Airbus' assault on Boeing's lead in world aviation. Another Airbus jet, the A340-600, this year began flying the world's longest non-stop flight from Singapore to New York, an 18½-hour journey. Airbus' smaller planes have become a favourite of low-fare carriers such as JetBlue Airways, and some analysts said the competition forced Boeing to shake up its top sales executives earlier this month.

Airbus also announced plans this month to build a plane to compete with Boeing's new 7E7 Dreamliner, a double-aisle aircraft scheduled to debut in 2008. The 7E7, Boeing's first new aircraft in a decade, is aimed at the growing market for mid-size aircraft flown by low-fare carriers. It is designed to have fuel-efficient engines and is constructed of materials that are lighter weight than those usually found on commercial airliners.

Airbus' A350, which is expected to be approved by the company's owner, European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company, hopes to compete with the 7E7 on fuel efficiency.

The rivalry between the two companies erupted into a trade war in October when the US and Europe charged that the other unfairly subsidised its domestic airplane manufacturer. The companies are competing for stakes in an estimated US$2 trillion aircraft market over the next 20 years.

Boeing has the opposite view of the future of commercial aviation and said it has no plans to develop a superjumbo to compete with the Airbus A380.

Although it once considered jointly building a giant plane with Airbus, the Chicago company now says it sees no profit and no market for such a plane. The A380 ``just doesn't make sense'', said Randy Baseler, Boeing's commercial airplane vice-president for marketing. ``We know airplane sizes are going down.''

Several US aviation analysts agree that Airbus may have difficulty turning a profit on aircraft. The company has sold the jet at reported discounts of 35-40 per cent, said Frost & Sullivan, which means it would have to sell 325 aircraft to break even.

Airbus said it needs to sell 250 for the project's success.

Airbus contends that its A380 is arriving at an ideal time - just as airlines will be looking to replace their ageing Boeing 747s. By offering more room and greater luxury than the 747, the A380 will shake up the entire market for large aircraft, according to one of the early architects. ``It's like the atomic bomb,'' senior vice-president of product strategy Philippe Jarry said.

Since the top-flight amenities will largely be found in first class, coach passengers - with their one extra inch in seat width and no benefit in leg room - may not recognise the jet's revolutionary aspects. Airbus says, however, that fares for the A380 should be attractive because its fuel-efficient engines will reduce operating costs.

Airbus has sold 139 of the A380s, mostly to government-backed airlines. Its largest customer is Emirates, a rapidly expanding state-owned carrier based in Dubai.

Etihad Airways, based in the United Arab Emirates and barely a year old, has ordered three superjumbos.

Singapore Airlines - the carrier with its 18-hour daily flights - will be the first to fly the A380.

Some European carriers, including Virgin Atlantic and Air France, have delayed delivery of the A380.

THE WASHINGTON POST

Rational Plan

December 21st, 2004, 12:34 PM

My My, what an unbiased report from the Washington Post. I suppose we can look forward to more negative press from the american media as poor old boeing keeps floundering around. The european media are of course generally positive about the A380. Over the last two years I have read articles in Time, Newsweek etc that pretty much follows boeings press release output. Note that the article disparages the airlines that have bought the A380 as government owned. So what? Most of the Worlds airlines are still government owned. In fact in the good old days of boeings dominance nearly all the worlds airlines were government owned. The idea of US airline chiefs worrying about treating coach passengers like cattle! TH

Mike

December 22nd, 2004, 04:43 AM

http://tyrell.homeip.net/pics/2004/a380_01.jpg

http://tyrell.homeip.net/pics/2004/a380_02.jpg

skynet126

December 22nd, 2004, 10:09 AM

If the middle East and Asian countries want to bought cheap airplane in the future, then they better wishes that Airbus and Boeing mumbo jumbo company going to sue the hell out of each other. That way there are going to be competition, and everybody got a great deal.

The Mad Hatter!!

December 23rd, 2004, 07:53 PM

Last Updated: Wednesday, 15 December, 2004, 12:18 GMT
bbc news-business

Airbus A380 is $2bn over budget

The A380 pre-production model is due to be used in trials next year
The Airbus A380 superjumbo project is running 1.45bn euros (£1bn; $1.9bn) over budget, the company's majority owner EADS has admitted.
"That is indeed a lot, that is indeed hefty," EADS co-chief executive Rainer Hertrich told journalists in Munich.

Total costs for the double-decker aircraft are now estimated to be more than 12bn euros, the company said.

Due to enter service in 2006, the A380 will replace the Boeing 747 jumbo as the world's biggest passenger aircraft.

But despite the increase in costs, the jet is on schedule and its inaugural flight should take place next year, the company said.

A380 SPECIFICATION
Length: 73m
Wingspan: 79.8m
Height: 24.1m
Typical capacity: 555
Max capacity: 840
Engines: 4
Cruising speed: 0.85 mach
It is then expected to start carrying passengers in 2006, with an estimated four planes being produced every month by 2008.

Joint effort

The 555-seater plane could revolutionise the airline industry and could lead to a doubling in Airbus' profits, some experts say.

The A380 has wider seats, more legroom and 50% more floor space than the Boeing 747. It also has a 15,100km (8,150 nautical miles) flight range.

The assembly of the giant plane is taking place at a £240m factory in Toulouse, France.

Sections of the aircraft have been manufactured in the UK, Germany, Spain and France before being transported to Toulouse for assembly.

andysimo123

December 24th, 2004, 04:12 PM

When anyone does big projects like this you have to ready for costs to go over budget. Most big Projects go over budget. This has gone over budget alot but i think they were ready for it.

andysimo123

December 24th, 2004, 04:17 PM

How much does a A380 cost to buy?

The Mad Hatter!!

December 24th, 2004, 04:51 PM

in my opinon theres no need for the a380 or even the 747 anymore,atleast not right now

Nephasto

December 24th, 2004, 08:32 PM

in my opinon theres no need for the a380 or even the 747 anymore,atleast not right now

It will sell more in some years time, when the 747-400's start to get really old.
Anyway, there's a need for it right now, and it's a great project by airbus! And all the boeing fans just have to accept that. :D

andysimo123

December 26th, 2004, 12:56 AM

They have sold over 130 odd already. They want to build 3 a month so its 43 a year so about 4 years guarentteed building work so far. Airbus must be charging well over 200 million each so I dont think there complaining, it should pay off the 12 billion developing fee.

Hobodog

December 26th, 2004, 01:18 AM

Im American and since it seems to be the fad for Euros to say Boeing sucks and vice versa....

Yeah...well, if Boeing made a big fat ugly plane like this it would be better, faster, cooler, and just plain niftier...hell yeah...Go America...Go USA...

But as is...Its fat, its ugly...but its hella big and I have to give my props to Airbus even if I don't care for their business...

andysimo123

December 26th, 2004, 01:25 AM

Your right its being built in the wrong place. It should be being built in the US is where all the super fatties are. Also I want to buy one :cheers:

Nephasto

December 26th, 2004, 05:36 AM

Im American and since it seems to be the fad for Euros to say Boeing sucks and vice versa....

Yeah...well, if Boeing made a big fat ugly plane like this it would be better, faster, cooler, and just plain niftier...hell yeah...Go America...Go USA...

Well, nobody here is saying that boeing sucks or that airbus is better, so you should shut up instead of writing that stupid lines about boing/america being better!
About it being the fad for euros and americans to say that A or B sucks, well, let's not transform this thread into one of those stupid pointless discussions.

GuilhermeC

December 26th, 2004, 06:05 AM

Both Boeing and Airbus are fine companies that have excellent planes. Boeing had it's glory with the Jumbo and other models and now Airbus is on the spotlight owing to the A380. But who knows in the future? There's nothing here worth fighting for.

Qwertyuiop

December 26th, 2004, 06:19 AM

How much does a A380 cost to buy?

If I remember correctly, they're U.S. $250 Million, compared to a Boeing 747-400 at U.S. $218 Million.

Launch customers like Singapore Airlines and Emirates probably also received a little bit of a "discount" for being the first to fly them.

tritown

December 26th, 2004, 06:24 AM

This seems to be more of a pride issue than anything else. Not that this new airplane isn't cool, but it just seems like smaller models such as the A330 are the most plausible airplanes now.

andysimo123

December 26th, 2004, 01:14 PM

Buying in bulk willl also make it cheaper for them.

Solblanc

December 26th, 2004, 03:03 PM

I wanna see this behemoth fly!

Hobodog

December 27th, 2004, 07:57 AM

Well, nobody here is saying that boeing sucks or that airbus is better, so you should shut up instead of writing that stupid lines about boing/america being better!
About it being the fad for euros and americans to say that A or B sucks, well, let's not transform this thread into one of those stupid pointless discussions.

Please please do understand sarcasm...sorry if you thought I was starting something or not...I just notice that many of these types of topics degrade into some kind of Airbus vs. Boeing flame job...

I still think its ugly though...

andysimo123

January 5th, 2005, 11:26 PM

I got some petty big news just bin on the airbus site and Mr Behemoth AKA the A380 will be revealed at 11.00AM GMT+1 on 18th January. 12 days from now.

Count down on this site.
http://www.airbus.com/prehome.asp#
Finally we will see one. I dont know but it could also be the day that it flys. Fingers crossed.

RafflesCity

January 6th, 2005, 11:03 PM

:eek2:

it looks amazing!

http://tyrell.homeip.net/pics/2004/a380_01.jpg

huaiwei

January 6th, 2005, 11:25 PM

:eek2:

it looks amazing!

http://tyrell.homeip.net/pics/2004/a380_01.jpg
:eek: Scary even!

RafflesCity

January 7th, 2005, 05:55 PM

Said it before and I'll say it again...

I cant wait to see it at Changi!!! :banana:

EarlyBird

January 7th, 2005, 09:21 PM

And I can't wait to see it at Manchester! That baby is something else. I can't wait to see it flying.

andysimo123

January 8th, 2005, 01:05 PM

Were 9 days 22 hours away from seeing a finished one and seeing it flying I hope.

MVL318

January 8th, 2005, 05:10 PM

The first images of the a380 with 4 engines and fully painted. Some parts are still covered.
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=293950
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=293951

MVL318

January 8th, 2005, 05:14 PM

The covered parts may hide the new livery. There is a good chance that it looks like this:
http://www.airbus.com/wallpapers/2005/jan_05_800_600.jpg
This is the wallpaper for January 2005 on the aibus site.

The Mad Hatter!!

January 8th, 2005, 05:26 PM

i doubt the livery will look like that

MVL318

January 8th, 2005, 09:01 PM

At this picture you can see the same types of blue on the tail.
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=293950

andysimo123

January 8th, 2005, 09:05 PM

Mint pics. :okay:

EarlyBird

January 8th, 2005, 09:22 PM

This thing is an engineering masterpiece.

andysimo123

January 9th, 2005, 12:38 AM

This thing is an engineering masterpiece.
We havent seen it fly yet but am sure it will. :okay:

Prestonian

January 9th, 2005, 02:14 AM

Truely incredible. It just looks so huge!

Isan

January 9th, 2005, 11:55 AM

It was smallest what I am expecting

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/bigcatming/751309.jpg

bs_lover_boy

January 9th, 2005, 01:29 PM

I can't wait!!!

EarlyBird

January 9th, 2005, 01:31 PM

It looks a lot smaller than I expected on that photo. Either that or the people underneath it are 9ft giants.

huaiwei

January 9th, 2005, 02:09 PM

Or the huge engines and the huge tail makes it appear shorter and smaller?

Nephasto

January 9th, 2005, 04:31 PM

Mike

January 9th, 2005, 04:41 PM

The engines are huge and make the plane look small in comparison. Concentrate on the humans as point of reference and you'll see that the plane is fairly large in reality.

RafflesCity

January 9th, 2005, 06:06 PM

I hope its maiden flight makes big press coverage

will the first plane to fly have any paint scheme?

Vapour

January 9th, 2005, 08:31 PM

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/751309/L/

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=293951

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=294003

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=294004

MVL318

January 10th, 2005, 06:34 PM

The tail colours of the a380:
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=294528

These are the same colours as airbus wallpaper from this month.
http://www.airbus.com/wallpapers/2005/jan_05_800_600.jpg

MVL318

January 10th, 2005, 06:36 PM

Only 7days 17 hours 25 minutes still to go. :) :)

MVL318

January 11th, 2005, 08:48 AM

UPS Places Order for 10 Airbus A380 Freighters

http://ups.com/pressroom/us/press_releases/press_release/0,1088,4503,00.html

huaiwei

January 11th, 2005, 06:01 PM

Posted: 11 January 2005 0531 hrs

A380 super-jumbo takes first peep outside French hangar

BLAGNAC, France : The A380 super-jumbo passenger jet, due to be officially unveiled next week, was wheeled out of its hangar in southwestern France for the first time. The white prototype, one of four that will make test flights later this year, will remain in the open for 48 hours before returning inside the hangar at Blagnac near the city of Toulouse, informed sources said.

The plane, designed by the European consortium Airbus, will be officially unveiled on January 18 at Blagnac about two months before its maiden flight, Airbus executives have said.

The A380 is set to break a 30-year monopoly that US aircraft maker Boeing has held in the market for big passenger airplanes with its 747 jumbo.

French President Jacques Chirac, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso were expected to attend the unveiling. Representatives of all airlines that have ordered the A380, which is set to become the world's biggest commercial airliner, carrying up more than 550 passengers, were also on the guest list.

Airbus is 80-percent owned by the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company, and the rest of aircraft maker's capital is owned by British defence contractor BAE Systems.

Airbus and Boeing are currently locked in a bitter dispute. Boeing contends that Airbus benefits from government subsidies that violate international trade rules. The European Union for its part maintains that Boeing has received illegal subsidies in the form of major contracts from US defense and space agencies.

- AFP

huaiwei

January 11th, 2005, 08:09 PM

Posted: 11 January 2005 2320 hrs

Airbus consolidates A380 order book ahead of plane's official unveiling

PARIS : The European consortium Airbus is consolidating its order book for the new A380 aircraft thanks to a highly symbolic US purchase a week before the official unveiling of the world's biggest passenger jet.

The aircraft maker, which is preparing to present the A380 in Toulouse next Tuesday amid great fanfare, is celebrating a new order for the super-jumbo from US package shipper United Parcel Service.

UPS announced Monday it had placed a firm order for 10 A380s, with an option on 10 more, and in a related decision cut its order for 90 A300 aircraft to 53.

The super-jumbo A380 has the capacity to carry three decks of cargo with container capacity of nearly 40,000 cubic feet (1,100 cubic meters) and a maximum structural payload of 330,000 pounds (150,000 kilograms). It has a range of 5,600 nautical miles. It is to come into service in 2008, two years after the double-decker passenger version.

UPS did not disclose the financial details of the order. But according to Airbus catalog prices, it would amount to roughly 2.7 billion dollars (2.1 billion euros). The US order fleshes out the order book for the A380, which already had 129 firm orders and 10 options by end-November, the latest available Airbus figures show.

Airbus is to publish Wednesday its annual aircraft sales and orders data.

Airbus's strong performance comes against a backdrop of an aviation slump in the United States, where few airline companies are still risking investment in their fleets. Moreover, it is a new blow for Boeing, the US arch-rival that Airbus beat in aircraft deliveries in 2004 for the second straight year.

The A380, the target of Boeing's endless criticism that it is unsuited to the market, "will allow UPS to effectively meet the fast-growing demands of our customers across a variety of global trade lanes," said UPS airlines chief operating officer John Beystehner in announcing the deal Tuesday.

His praise of the plane's "exciting combination of payload and range" was bound to hearten Airbus's four partners -- Britain, France, Germany and Spain -- which have invested 10 billion euros in the project.

The chief commercial officer of Airbus, John Leahy, predicted in mid-December that 10 new A380 orders would be finalized in early 2005. He said more than 150 orders were expected by mid-year.

Presenting the A380 in Toulouse next week will be French President Jacques Chirac, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero.

Airbus is 80 percent owned by the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) and 20 percent by BAE Systems of Britain. - AFP

drwho

January 12th, 2005, 01:36 AM

huaiwei> get your digicam ready when the A380-SIA lands at Changi:)

bluga

January 12th, 2005, 03:16 AM

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/1.jpg

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/2.jpg

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/3.jpg

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/4.jpg

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/5.jpg

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/6.jpg

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/7.jpg

scorpion

January 12th, 2005, 05:52 AM

extremely bad-a$$ :cool:

absent-minded

January 12th, 2005, 07:59 AM

that thing is just HUGE!! can't wait to get in one of those. haha

i think the livery will only be new at the back/tail part of the plane.... i'm guessing the body just says A380-800 or something and that small bit near the nose has "AIRBUS" on it... hehe... probably something much, much better for this grand reveal, but that's what it looks like to me right now... haha

huaiwei

January 12th, 2005, 09:06 AM

huaiwei> get your digicam ready when the A380-SIA lands at Changi:)
Ahh...I hope to be able to invest in a DSLR with superb zoom by then! :D

RafflesCity

January 12th, 2005, 10:04 AM

OMG those last few pics posted are A W E S O M E ! ! ! :eek2:

Camaway

January 12th, 2005, 12:22 PM

Awesome!!!!!!!

andysimo123

January 12th, 2005, 12:32 PM

WOW this one is amazing. http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/3.jpg
Its huge.........
I bet the colours say something like "You wish boeing" lol :jk: it will just say Airbus and A380.
I wonder if they will make an Airbus A380-900 a bigger and improved one of this.

drwho

January 12th, 2005, 04:25 PM

wooohoo good pics Bluga:)

andysimo123

January 13th, 2005, 01:55 AM

5 days 10 hours and counting.

bluga

January 14th, 2005, 07:45 AM

A hulking beast joins the dogfight
Jan 13th 2005
From The Economist Global Agenda

Airbus is about to unveil its new A380 super-jumbo (pictured). Will the 555-seat monster leave Boeing trailing in its wake?

AP
AP

AS DISTINCTIVE Routemaster double-decker buses disappear from the streets of London, Airbus is set to unveil a double-decker passenger jet that it hopes will repeat the success of a vehicle that is every bit as iconic: Boeing’s 747. The European consortium’s A380 super-jumbo, which is to be formally unveiled at a lavish ceremony on Tuesday January 18th, will break the 747’s longstanding monopoly of the big-jet market when it enters service in 2006. Everything about the new plane is big, from its capacity of 555 paying customers and range of 15,000km (9,320 miles) to the purpose-built hangar, one of Europe’s largest enclosed spaces, at its construction site near Toulouse in southern France. Bigger, longer-range versions are planned and so far orders have been taken for 149 super-jumbos, over halfway to break-even point.
RELATED ITEMS
Backgrounders
Boeing v Airbus

From The Economist
Airbus, Boeing and the WTO
Oct 7th 2004
Boeing loses again
Jan 22nd 2004
Noel Forgeard, Airbus's Boeing-beater
Jan 15th 2004
Turbulence at Boeing
Nov 25th 2003
Airbus v Boeing
Jul 18th 2002

Websites
Airbus will shortly unveil the A380. Boeing gives information on its products.

Also in Global Agenda
Debt freeze for the tsunami-hit countries Jan 12th 2005
Apple Computer Jan 12th 2005
The Palestinian presidential vote Jan 11th 2005
Intellectual property Jan 11th 2005
World trade Jan 7th 2005
Peacemaking in Africa Jan 10th 2005
Buttonwood will return on January 25th

About Global Agenda

Advertisment

The size of the project reflects estimates about the future demand for air travel. Despite the recent travails of big airlines, both Airbus and Boeing expect a tripling of air-passenger traffic over the next 20 years. But the transatlantic rivals disagree about how the demand should be met. Airbus thinks an extra 16,600 new large planes (over 100 seats)—a doubling of the number of passenger aircraft currently flying—will do the trick, and expects that the average number of seats in aircraft will increase by 20%, to 215. By contrast, Boeing expects sales of 18,600 slightly smaller planes.

Airbus is hoping that the A380 will help it retain the lead it gained over Boeing in 2003, when, for the first time since the European consortium emerged as a rival to Boeing in the early 1970s, it delivered more aircraft than its American competitor. Airbus, to Boeing’s extreme displeasure, kept the number-one slot in 2004 by delivering 320 planes compared with 285 from its rival, according to figures released this week.

Boeing’s seemingly unassailable lead over Airbus was founded on the success of the 747, which entered service in 1970. The original jumbo jet could carry twice as many passengers as the next largest plane then flying and had a greater range, allowing, for example, a long transatlantic flight without refuelling. Its cost per passenger mile was around one-third less than its rivals. A huge home market for the jumbo and the rest of the Boeing range ensured its ascendancy. Some 1,400 747s have been sold to date.

However, only 15 were delivered last year. And as the jumbo has aged, Boeing’s domination of the commercial airways has foundered. The aerospace giant’s product line is ailing, and attempts to revive it have met with only partial success. The big airlines showed little interest in an upgraded jumbo. And a red-faced Boeing was forced to withdraw its Sonic Cruiser, a plane intended to fly at near the speed of sound, after airlines rejected the idea that passengers would pay a hefty premium for such rapid transit.

Boeing’s latest attempt to put things right, the 250-seat 7E7 “Dreamliner”, is born out of a belief that passengers will demand, and future deregulation allow, a big increase in “point-to-point” travel: direct flights between small and medium-sized cities, as opposed to the traditional hub-and-spoke model, in which international passengers fly between a few major airports and are then taken to more out of the way places on feeder flights. Boeing hopes the new plane will prove popular with the time-conscious business flyer. It says that the 7E7’s advanced engines will cut airlines’ fuel costs by 20%. So far it has received 56 firm orders.

The A380, by contrast, is designed to fly between big hubs. Its critics say it will mean longer journey times for passengers with onward flights to smaller destinations. But Airbus is claiming a similar step-change to the one that accompanied the launch of the 747: operating costs will be 15-20% lower than those of any rival aircraft, it says. To add to Boeing’s discomfort, Airbus announced in December that it would introduce the A350 in direct competition with the Dreamliner, offering much the same specifications.

Boeing’s fears that it would be left in Airbus’s wake also prompted it to attack on another front. In October, America made a formal complaint to the World Trade Organisation alleging the payment of billions of dollars of “unfair” subsidies to Airbus. Boeing claims that “launch aid” has enabled Airbus to roll out five new products in the past ten years while it has managed just one. Like Airbus’s rapid response to the Dreamliner, the European Union immediately said that it would file a counter-claim over large sums of aid going to Boeing through indirect government subsidies from its relationship with NASA and the Pentagon. This week, the EU said that it was ready to compromise to resolve the dispute and both sides agreed to suspend hostilities (and subsidies) for three months of negotiations.

The huge projected market for passenger jets over the coming years will allow both aircraft-makers to sell plenty of new planes. The A380 aside, Airbus and Boeing seem evenly matched. The success of the super-jumbo may well determine how much higher the Europeans fly than the Americans in the next few years.

andysimo123

January 15th, 2005, 06:29 PM

Am a bit pissed off that we won't see it fly whens its officially first shown. I can always hope though.

rufi

January 15th, 2005, 07:04 PM

This makes me proud of beeing european :)

Lee

January 15th, 2005, 07:14 PM

This makes me proud of beeing european :)

France, Germany and the UK are the main builders of the A380. Actually, 40% of it is made in the US, and some other parts in Spain. Do those countries represent Europe?

rufi

January 15th, 2005, 07:18 PM

god lee ! is something okay with the plane for u?

drwho

January 15th, 2005, 07:23 PM

2 days 16h 39min

Nephasto

January 15th, 2005, 08:07 PM

Actually, 40% of it is made in the US, and some other parts in Spain. Do those countries represent Europe?

Spain certainly does!
Anyway... I don't think boeing planes are 100% built in the USA Lee!

Do you do anything else in life apart from bashing Europe/European projects and glorify usa/usa projects?! :|
Grow up!!

huaiwei

January 15th, 2005, 08:39 PM

France, Germany and the UK are the main builders of the A380. Actually, 40% of it is made in the US, and some other parts in Spain. Do those countries represent Europe?
Your point being?

huaiwei

January 15th, 2005, 09:49 PM

Singapore Airlines (SIA) unveils its new logo layout for the launch of the Airbus A380 aircraft

http://www.airlinequality.com/images/a380-sia.jpg

In the lead-up to the world’s first Airbus A380 taking to the skies, launch customer Singapore Airlines (SIA) unveiled its specially created logo for the SIA A380. The logo contains the taglines “First to Fly – the Singapore Airlines A380” and “Experience the Difference in 2006”.

In 2006, SIA will be the first airline to operate the A380, and passengers will be invited to experience a travel concept that is different from what it is today.

This new SIA A380 logo captures the most outstanding feature of Airbus’ truly double-decker aircraft in the twin row of windows, and underlines SIA’s commitment to remain a most innovative and service-oriented company in the air travel industry.

Airbus will be revealing to the public the first A380 in Toulouse, France on 18 January 2005.

Singapore Airlines (SIA) will take delivery of its first A380 in 2006. SIA has 10 A380's on firm order and another 15 on option. The A380 can accommodate 555 seats in a standard, three-class configuration. SIA’s A380 will have less than 500 seats in a three-class configuration. SIA placed the order for the 25 A380 aircraft, worth US$8.6 billion including the cost of spares and installed engines, in 2000.

rufi

January 15th, 2005, 09:53 PM

sweet !

ZuluKingOfTheDwarfPeople

January 15th, 2005, 11:40 PM

Lee

January 15th, 2005, 11:42 PM

Spain certainly does!
Anyway... I don't think boeing planes are 100% built in the USA Lee!

Do you do anything else in life apart from bashing Europe/European projects and glorify usa/usa projects?!
Grow up!!

You are right, Boeing planes are not 100% made in the US. Over 30% of the 7e7 will be made in Japan. My point was that this plane isn't exclusively "european" because most european nations aren't even involved, and non-european nations like the US are building large parts of it, like for example its software-produced by Honeywell.

Being an airplane lover, I too am excited about this plane, even though I am skeptical it will make much money and meet performance expectations.

"Alcoa and Airbus are joining forces in Southern California as the US and European firms team up to bring the new Airbus A380 jumbo liner into existence. Alcoa plans to provide one million fasteners for each new Airbus plane. Those fastener devices are already being made at Alcoa facilities in the Los Angeles area, and will link key components of the big jet at assembly facilities in Europe.

Airbus North America Chairman Allan McArtor says about 50 percent of the components for the A380 will be US made."

Heck, the A380 is more American than it is Spanish or British!

andysimo123

January 16th, 2005, 12:03 AM

Wrong there are alot of european nations involved in building it. France, UK, Spain, The Netherlands, Germany, Belgium ,Russia, Austria, Sweden, Poland, Czech Republic and Switzerland.
Your very right about alot being built in the US because there is like landing gear ect been built in the US.

Lee

January 16th, 2005, 01:08 AM

^Those other nations have very small roles. If you want to include small roles, we might as well include Japan, Morrocco and China. The main Euro nations are (in order) France, Germany, UK, and Spain.

andysimo123

January 16th, 2005, 02:00 AM

Maybe small roles but they are still very much involved. Most nations in Europe only have a small roll because they are small and not massive like the US which already has everything. It also makes sense to build a lot of products in the US as new factories dont have to be built over here.

hkskyline

January 16th, 2005, 07:34 AM

Airbus set for China take-off
Dominic O'Connell
The Sunday Times - London

AIRBUS is close to clinching two big orders from China for the A380, the superjumbo aircraft that will be unveiled in Toulouse on Tuesday.

Industry sources say Airbus is in talks with the Chinese government and Cathay Pacific, the Hong Kong-listed carrier.

The Chinese government order, which is likely to be split between two airlines, Air China and China Southern, will be for five aircraft and a similar number of options to buy more.

Cathay’s order could be the same size, the source said, taking the value of the Chinese contracts, including options, to about $3 billion (£1.6 billion).

Airbus has been in lengthy negotiations with the Chinese government. An announcement of the government order was expected last year during a state visit by Jacques Chirac, the French president, but is understood to have been held up by negotiations over the European Union’s embargo on arms sales to China. Jack Straw, foreign secretary, said last week that he expected the arms embargo to be lifted within six months.

Cathay, one of the world’s leading long-haul airlines, has played hard to get with Airbus, and appeared to have turned its back on the A380 when it bought 10 second-hand Boeing 747s. But it is understood that the carrier’s top management will be present at the unveiling of the aircraft on Tuesday.

Three heads of state — Tony Blair, Chirac and German chancellor Gerhard Schröder — and 5,000 guests will attend the ceremony, which will cap Airbus’s recent period of supremacy over Boeing in the commercial aircraft market.

Last year Airbus delivered more planes than Boeing — 320 against 285 — for the second year in a row. On Friday, Boeing said it would take a $615m hit after deciding to stop production of its smallest airliner, the 717, and to cover the cost of its stalled programme to provide tanker aircraft to the US Air Force.

The A380 will be the largest passenger aeroplane ever built, and is expected to carry about 550 people in a three-class configuration. But this week two airlines, Emirates and Singapore Airlines, are expected to say that they will carry far fewer in an effort to increase passenger comfort.

vincent

January 16th, 2005, 11:45 AM

i actually got a question that i want to ask for long. When some airline order some plane as "option", what is that really mean?

CX is buying second-hand 747? i hope they only use that for cargo.

cladiv

January 16th, 2005, 01:49 PM

hey you forgot Italy!
Alenia aeronautica is building the central part of the fuselage of the A380!

andysimo123

January 16th, 2005, 02:05 PM

I knew there was one I forgot sorry mate. I wonder if British Airways will ever buy some A380s.

cladiv

January 16th, 2005, 02:13 PM

it's all right mate.I hope Ba will buy some since is the airline i use more often!

hkskyline

January 16th, 2005, 05:51 PM

CX purchased old 747s to convert into cargo planes amidst booming traffic. Airlines and the manufacturers usually use options in case more aircraft is needed in the future.

RafflesCity

January 16th, 2005, 06:01 PM

drwho

January 16th, 2005, 06:05 PM

Raffie!! 1 day 17h and 56 min left for the A380-flight:) :)

rufi

January 16th, 2005, 06:20 PM

http://www.jak.org.yu/PRILOZI/A380/hr_a380_nuit0.jpg

andysimo123

January 16th, 2005, 06:38 PM

Raffie!! 1 day 17h and 56 min left for the A380-flight:) :)
I really dont want to disappoint you but is very likely we will not see it fly in 2 days time. We know a finished one will be shown to the public but its not been said its going to try and take off.

rufi

January 16th, 2005, 06:44 PM

more pics
http://www.baesystems.com/gallery/air/images/Airbus_A380hires.jpg
:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

Nephasto

January 16th, 2005, 07:45 PM

I really dont want to disappoint you but is very likely we will not see it fly in 2 days time. We know a finished one will be shown to the public but its not been said its going to try and take off.

No, tuesday is just the roll out.
The first fly is schedulled for the end of march, beggining of april... (I've heard March 31)

Ning

January 16th, 2005, 07:50 PM

it won't flight in 2 day, it's "just" the inauguration. I think it will fly for the first time in March.

EDIT : Nephasto was faster :)

BMXican

January 16th, 2005, 10:35 PM

This makes me proud of beeing european :)

indeed. what an amazing mashine....

andysimo123

January 16th, 2005, 10:58 PM

No, tuesday is just the roll out.
The first fly is schedulled for the end of march, beggining of april... (I've heard March 31)
Ye I know. I was telling people it won't be flying so don't get your hopes up.

The Mad Hatter!!

January 16th, 2005, 11:05 PM

"makes me proud beeing european"-rufi

yea i would be to,i feel the same way when i see a 747.
hopefully the a380 is a sucess(not more than 747),but i still hope that boeing does better than airbus.

The Mad Hatter!!

January 17th, 2005, 01:05 AM

Longer, taller, wider A380 ready for takeoff
By Noelle Knox, USA TODAY
BRUSSELS — With the stakes sky-high, European aircraft maker Airbus this week shows the world what it hopes is the airplane of the future.

An employee works on the first Airbus A380 passenger jet Thursday near Toulouse, France.
By Christophe Ena, AP

Tuesday, the company will unveil its gargantuan A380, a double-deck aircraft that can carry at least 555 passengers. The plane is longer, taller and wider — wingtip to wingtip — than the White House. (Related photos: Airbus unveils A380)

In a sprawling manufacturing plant at Airbus' headquarters in Toulouse, France, aerospace industry leaders and top government officials from Great Britain, France, Germany and Spain will gather for the ceremonial debut. Airbus has spent more than a decade developing the plane, which is expected to begin carrying passengers next year.

Riding on the success of the plane is European pride and an enormous amount of money. The A380 will replace Boeing's 747 as the largest passenger plane, and could crush Boeing's chances of regaining its place as the No. 1 commercial plane manufacturer, a title Boeing lost to Airbus in 2003.

The huge plane reflects the Airbus belief that airlines will turn to high-capacity aircraft to unclog the current congestion in air travel, and to handle an expected explosion in the number of travelers in the coming years. If the calculation is correct, Airbus is well-positioned to meet the demand and take long-term command of the $55 billion aircraft manufacturing industry from U.S. rival Boeing.

"It's the realization of a dream of many people to build an airplane to change air transport in the 21st century, the way the (Boeing) 747 changed air transport in the 20th century," says Airbus executive John Leahy. The A380 has been a source of friction not only between Airbus and Boeing, but also between Europe and the USA, because both companies rely heavily on government subsidies to help with development costs. To avert a massive trade war, diplomats on both sides said last week that they will try to reach a settlement within 90 days on the amounts and types of aid that should be allowed.

In the fight for dominance, Boeing today lags Airbus only slightly in plane sales. But their strategies for tomorrow are fundamentally different. While Airbus is gambling on its giant new plane, Boeing is betting on the 7E7 Dreamliner, a smaller 250-passenger plane, to be unveiled at the end of next year.

The cost of developing each new plane is too great for either company to back down now. Airbus, however, recently hedged its bet by committing to developing a new 250-seat plane to go head-to-head with Boeing's 7E7. Airbus plans to introduce its A350 at the end of the decade.

For now, Philip Finnegan, of aerospace consultant Teal Group, gives Airbus the clear advantage. Boeing is vulnerable to financial difficulties of the big U.S. airlines, he says. Also, recent investigations of its defense business might distract management, he said.

Massive investment

Airbus has spent $13 billion developing the A380, about $2 billion over budget. The mammoth plane has a matching price tag: $280 million, though many airlines have negotiated discounts. Aviation regulators will begin the safety certification process with the first test flights during the first half of this year. The first planes will be delivered to Singapore Airlines in mid-2006 and are expected to be used for the carrier's route to San Francisco, and later to Los Angeles and New York. Other customers include Virgin Atlantic, Air France, Lufthansa and Emirates.

So far, no orders have come from U.S. passenger airlines, many of which are struggling, though U.S. transporters FedEx and UPS have signed up for cargo versions.

It seems unlikely U.S. passenger airlines will place orders very soon, Finnegan says. "There is the problem of the financial conditions of the airlines, but you also have a problem of perception — that it's not a passenger-friendly airplane."

That view arises, he says, from the fact that so many passengers will have to get on and off the airplane and get their luggage at the same time.

Nevertheless, Emirates airlines, the national airline of the United Arab Emirates, has signed the largest deal: 45 planes. The order is part of its plan to turn Dubai into a global tourism and transportation hub.

The carrier plans to put "in-air bedrooms" in first-class sections that can be closed off from the rest of the cabin. Each bedroom suite will have a minibar, closet and footrest that can be turned into a second chair for a business meeting.

The cabin also will have high-tech lighting to help passengers' body clocks adjust to new time zones and reduce jet lag.

Emirates spokesman Mike Simon calls the A380 "the perfect plane for us to build and develop into the future." Simon dismisses Boeing's 747-400 as "old technology."

Emirates now flies Boeing 777s, and has ordered more. As for the new 7E7 Dreamliner, Simon says, "We're looking at it, but the present version ... doesn't carry enough passengers."

More than 60 airports worldwide, including about a dozen in the USA, are spending millions to modify airfields and gate areas, and to reinforce runways and taxiways, to accommodate the A380. Los Angeles International, for one, expects to spend at least $53 million. Among changes: The roads for airport service vehicles that run parallel to the taxiways will have to be moved farther away because of the plane's wingspan.

Divergent visions

Until the mid-1990s, Boeing and Airbus shared a common vision for aviation, and produced a comparable line of planes. Both companies still expect passenger traffic to double in 15 years; "The difference (now) is how we view the evolution of the market," Boeing executive Randy Baseler says.

Changing conditions are driving demand for smaller planes, he says. Passengers want flexibility. Smaller airliners can now fly longer distances. There's more competition among the airlines, and countries are imposing fewer flight restrictions on foreign carriers.

Baseler cites Boeing's own experience with customer demand as a case in point. In 1985, when Boeing introduced the first 200-seat plane that could cross the Atlantic, the 767, it immediately started stealing market share from the larger 747 — even though the smaller plane costs one-fifth more to operate per seat-mile. "Why did that happen? Because passengers want more frequencies and more non-stops," Baseler says.

Boeing saw the same trend on Asian routes when it launched the 300-seat 777-ER in the 1990s.

That's why Boeing is spending up to $10 billion to develop the midsize 7E7 Dreamliner.

The 7E7 will be able to fly non-stop between almost any two airports in the world. The body is made from carbon-fiber reinforced plastic — aviation technology never attempted on this scale. The superlight plane will use 20% less fuel than other planes of the same size. With the new reinforced plastic body, the planes will have much larger windows, improved pressurization to minimize ear-popping during takeoffs and landings, and more humidity to ease passengers' dry throats and eyes.

The 7E7, with a price tag of $120 million, will be unveiled at the end of next year, and Japan's All Nippon Airways will be the first to start flying the planes in 2008.

Baseler says Airbus' plans to build the midsize A350, "basically takes their 20-year product strategy and throws it out the window." Airbus' Leahy disputes that interpretation.

Keeping an eye out for orders

Airbus has 149 orders for the A380, and needs another 101 to break even on its investment.

So far, Boeing has received 56 orders for the 7E7 — about one-quarter of its projections. Only one major U.S. airline, Continental, has placed an order.

Baseler says Boeing is mulling its future as a maker of jumbo jets.

At a meeting last fall in Hong Kong, he said the major airlines questioned whether Boeing will build a "stretched" version of the 747. The slightly longer plane could carry 450 passengers and — using the engines from the 7E7 — also fly a bit farther.

"They told us they need us to make a decision on it in the first half of 2005, so that's what we're in the midst of doing," Baseler says.

He has reason to wonder how airlines would respond if Boeing does commit to a stretched 747. Boeing hasn't sold a passenger version of the 747 since 2002 — another reason the company laughs off Airbus' big sales projections for the A380.

But only bigger airplanes can accommodate the explosive growth in air travel, says R.E.G. (Ronald) Davies, curator of the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum in Washington. Airports can't cope with the traffic created by maintaining the same size planes and increasing flight frequencies, he says.

Davies says Boeing, which ruled the market for jumbo jets for 35 years, got off track in 1995 when it scrapped plans for a 600-seat airliner. An anticipated order for the proposed airliner from British Airways didn't materialize, and Boeing pulled back.

"They canceled the plane instead of having faith," Davies says.

Contributing: Gary Stoller in Connecticut

vincent

January 17th, 2005, 03:03 AM

CX purchased old 747s to convert into cargo planes amidst booming traffic. Airlines and the manufacturers usually use options in case more aircraft is needed in the future.

10 extra 747 for cargo?? seems a lot. Is it a delivery spanning over couple of years?

By signing order contract as "option", the airline has the right not to buy more planes w/o penalty in case the market can't take it, right?
So what's the difference between a contract saying airline might buy it vs signing a firm order contract whenever plane are needed??

hkskyline

January 17th, 2005, 03:52 AM

Actually, here is the press release from Cathay. Not all of the 747s will become cargo planes. It's actually very hard to contract on something that is not certain to happen. Airlines usually want some room to maneuvre in case economic situations change, so options are oftentimes used. I'm not too sure how the intricacies work. You'll need to ask an aviation specialist for more information.

Press Release - 09 August 2004
"Cathay Pacific Airways today announced that its fleet will exceed 100 aircraft after committing to eight used Boeing 747-400s, half of which will be converted into freighters. The aircraft will be obtained from a number of owners and operators and arrive from now through 2006. The airline plans to purchase seven and lease one other.

This acquisition follows orders made earlier this year for one new B747-400 freighter plus two new B777-300 and six new Airbus 330-300s to join the airline’s regional fleet. These combined commitments will swell the airline’s operating fleet from 86 all-wide-body aircraft at present to 103 in just over three years, after the final A330-300s arrive. This additional investment will add to the approximate 20 percent increase in passenger capacity made by the airline in the past two years.

Four of the newly acquired aircraft will support the expansion of Cathay Pacific’s passenger fleet, following a complete retrofit so that the aircraft and cabin meet the same standards as existing Cathay Pacific aircraft. The other four will be converted into freighters and deployed on trunk routes to Europe and North America.

In January this year, Cathay Pacific announced it would be the world’s first airline to take part in the new B747-400 passenger-to-freighter conversion programme, and has so far committed to convert six aircraft with options on six more."

kony

January 17th, 2005, 04:37 AM

wow, this plane is gonna blow boeing away by light years !!! :eek2: :eek2:

the first official flight is supposed to take place at the Paris Air June next june...but they are supposed to conduct the usual series of tests before no ? so there is much chance we see it fly way before (it's not gonna do its first flight directly to the paris air show where all the press and official , and enemies will look at it)...actually we even don't know if this plane can fly as it never did before...so next weeks are gonna be really interesting :)

http://individual.utoronto.ca/izomax/A380/6.jpg

kony

January 17th, 2005, 04:39 AM

now look at this plane, it's huuuuuge. so the real question is : can that aircraft fly ???

what do u think guys ??

The Mad Hatter!!

January 17th, 2005, 04:44 AM

of course it can fly you know how much money they've put into this airplane,and the trust of the engine is crazy

kony

January 17th, 2005, 04:49 AM

yeah i know it can fly of course...but there's a sort of mistery as it's the largest (commercial) plane ever built and it has never proven anything you know...u remember the titanic was the largest ship ever built at its time ? (well i don't wanna make any kind of comparation but just looking at this plane i'm just overwhelmed by its hugeness)

anyway the russian antonov is bigger i think and it flies regularly !

i can't wait to board this AV380 plane ! i think i will have the same kind of excitement i usually have on a rollercoaster !

kony

January 17th, 2005, 04:54 AM

the greatest thing about it is that with this plane it would be a bargain to go from europe to NYC : currently a Paris/london/frankfurt/or Amsterdam flight to NYC is about 300 € (350 USD).

we can expect the price to go down around 200 € (240 USD) and maybe even 100 € (120 USD) with the 800 passengers version :)

New-york's gonna be a suburb of Paris :) (or the reverse)

The Mad Hatter!!

January 17th, 2005, 04:57 AM

i don't expect prices to drop that much this thing is a fuel drinker and airliners would never drop the prices that much unless they were threatened with bankruptcy

kony

January 17th, 2005, 05:35 AM

no it's wrong, one of the greatest strenght of the AV380 is that it will consume around 20 % less fuel than a B747 and will be able to carry much more passengers !

so it should push the prices down, the companies will win on quantities of tickets sold !

vincent

January 17th, 2005, 06:15 AM

hkskyline, thx for the info

if money is not an issue, planes could fly in virtually any size. I woundn't doubt a plane 20 times the size of 380 can't fly.

kony

January 17th, 2005, 06:26 AM

20 times bigger than the AV380 ??? are u crazy or what ??

i doubt even a plane twice bigger than this one could possibly fly safely ! not with today's technlogy knowledge

GuilhermeC

January 17th, 2005, 06:30 AM

Imagine the day I board one of this! So exciting!

tritown

January 17th, 2005, 06:47 AM

Let's just hope this isn't so big that it isn't efficient.

Koz

January 17th, 2005, 07:15 AM

now look at this plane, it's huuuuuge. so the real question is : can that aircraft fly ???

what do u think guys ??

If a 747 can carry a space shuttle atop its fuselage, the A380 can fly ;)

kony

January 17th, 2005, 07:27 AM

If a 747 can carry a space shuttle atop its fuselage, the A380 can fly ;)

yeah right ! but i never saw a 747 with a space shuttle ontop, wasn' it a russian Antonov instead ? (well even if i doubt the Us would take a russian aircraft for such a meaningfull transport)

A-brain

January 17th, 2005, 08:08 AM

http://photos.airliners.net/dc954897daad61865d6f7ee3a8993c31/41eb55bb/photos/6/8/5/602586.jpg

kony

January 17th, 2005, 08:50 AM

a brain your pix doesn't show, which is frequent with pix from the airliner site...

hkskyline

January 17th, 2005, 07:08 PM

U.S. airports make changes for A380
Gary Stoller
17 January 2005
USA Today

At least a dozen U.S. airports are bracing for the arrival of the Goliath of the skies -- Airbus' new A380 jumbo jet.

They expect to spend hundreds of millions in airfield and gate modifications to prepare for the world's widest passenger jet before it lands for the first time in 2006.

New York John F. Kennedy plans to spend about $120 million. Charles Gargano, of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, says JFK plans to widen runways and shoulders of taxiways, and to strengthen bridges.

Five foreign airlines -- Virgin Atlantic, Air France, Lufthansa, Singapore and Emirates -- plan to begin flying the world's only twin- deck, four-aisle airliner into JFK in 2006 or 2007.

At Los Angeles International airport, where more than $53 million will be spent to prepare for the A380, officials expect Qantas to arrive with the new plane in November 2006 and Lufthansa, Virgin Atlantic, Air France, Singapore, Korean Air and Federal Express by the end of the decade.

In addition to alterations to some gates and terminals, LAX plans to spend $28 million to pour more concrete and upgrade airfield intersections. Also planned: reinforcement of a tunnel under two runways.

"We'll be one of the airports most affected," says Mark Massman of Los Angeles World Airports.

The airport authority expects to spend much less -- up to "a few million" dollars -- for taxiway improvements at its airport in Ontario, Calif., where UPS is considering operating A380 cargo flights.

At San Francisco International, officials say they don't have to spend a penny to get ready for the dawn of the A380 era. "We're ready to take them today," says spokesman Michael McCarron. The airport opened a new international terminal in December 2000 that has five gates for A380s, and has modified its taxiways.

At Chicago O'Hare, spokeswoman Annette Martinez says modifications for the A380 will be part of a $6.6 billion runway and expansion plan that awaits federal government approval. One gate at the international terminal should be ready to handle A380 flights in the third quarter of 2007, she says.

Outside O'Hare, some members of local community groups who oppose the expansion are not looking forward to the arrival of a huge new airliner. Jack Saporito, of The Alliance of Residents Concerning O'Hare, says the introduction of the A380, which weighs hundreds of tons, will degrade the environment by increasing air traffic and forcing expansion of runways.

Kampflamm

January 17th, 2005, 07:35 PM

Comparison between A380 and 747. I think you guys are able to figure what everything means

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,426397,00.jpg

rufi

January 17th, 2005, 07:43 PM

WOW!

andysimo123

January 17th, 2005, 07:56 PM

yeah right ! but i never saw a 747 with a space shuttle ontop, wasn' it a russian Antonov instead ? (well even if i doubt the Us would take a russian aircraft for such a meaningfull transport)
The 747 did fly with the shuttle on top. When they first made them, they took them on a tour round a few other countries my dad saw it fly over Manchester.

huaiwei

January 17th, 2005, 07:59 PM

Airbus poised to clinch key Chinese orders

BEIJING, Jan 16 (AFP) - High-flying European airliner builder Airbus has already logged dozens of orders for its new giant A380 aircraft, and signs emerged on Sunday it would seal its success by clinching orders from China, one of the world's biggest operators.

The Sunday Times reported that Airbus is close to clinching two key orders valued at USD 3 billion (EUR 2.28 billion) from China for its new plane, the biggest passenger airliner in the world which will roll out of its assembly hangar on Tuesday

Citing industry sources the newspaper said the Toulouse, France-based maker was in talks with the Chinese government and Cathay Pacific, the Hong Kong listed carrier.

Although orders have flooded in for the A380, Airbus's success is seen as depending on whether it can interest China, one of the world's biggest operators.

With the 2008 Beijing Olympics looming, there had been speculation that a Chinese order for the twin-deck, four-engine plane, which can carry some 550 passengers, would be announced at the A380's official roll-out on Tuesday, Hong Kong-based aviation analyst Peter Negline of bankers JPMorgan said earlier.

Such an announcement had already been expected when French President Jacques Chirac visited China in October, and again when German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder was in Beijing in early December.

China's commercial air market is expected to be one of the world's largest in the coming years.

The Sunday Times report said that the Chinese government order, which is likely to be split between two airlines, Air China and China Southern, would be for five aircraft and a similar number of options to buy more.

The order of Cathay Pacific, it said, could be the same size, taking the value of the Chinese contracts, including options, to about USD 3 billion (EUR 2.28 billion).

The European group has so far received 139 firm orders for the A380 as well as 10 expressions of intent to purchase.

Airbus, which hopes the A380 will enable it to increase its global lead over US rival Boeing, did well last year on the Chinese front, recording firm orders for 58 of its smaller planes, including three from Hong Kong, and letters of intent for 23 more.

In the next two decades, Airbus sees potential sales to China of its products at some 1,600, while Boeing, which currently has a 62 percent market share, predicts more than 2,000 and the domestic Aviation Industries of China (AVIC) is looking at nearly 1,300.

While the Olympic Games are expected to attract tens of thousands of visitors to Beijing, relaxed restrictions by both China and foreign countries mean that many more Chinese are venturing abroad. All will need airline seats.

However, the number of orders for the A380 from Chinese airlines is not expected to be large, perhaps no more than 10 aircraft.

China is looking for a share in the latest aerospace technology, rather than the delivery of products fully finished.

Rainer Hertrich, the co-chief executive of Airbus' parent company, the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company, said in Beijing last month he was confident China would place orders for the A380 soon.

He said an undisclosed number of what will be the world's biggest commercial airliner, which has a catalogue price of USD 275 million (EUR 209 million), had been reserved for China.

"The A380 will be rolled out in January and the first flight is scheduled for March. I believe in the end, if the Chinese want to see it flying, honestly the Chinese have to hurry up," Hertrich said.

China's Vice Foreign Minister Zhang Yesui strenuously denied a report in The Wall Street Journal that Beijing was holding up orders for at least five A380s because of the European Union's refusal to lift a 15-year-old ban on arms sales to China.

Airbus China president Lawrence Barron said in November the company will set up an engineering centre in China next year and hire 200 staff by the end of 2008.

The company was also discussing the possibility of setting up an operation that would assemble planes in the country, Airbus boss Noel Forgeard said at about the same time.

Airbus also wants to manufacture at least five percent of the parts for its proposed A350 model in China, the head of Airbus Germany, Gustav Humbert, said in December.

One in four of the 3,500-plus Airbus planes in operation around the world is equipped with parts made in China, according to the Xinhua news agency.

© AFP

andysimo123

January 17th, 2005, 07:59 PM

After looking at the scale on that thing that Kampflamm posted you then really get to see just how big this plane is. Its like wow a million and one times!!!!!!!

Lee

January 17th, 2005, 08:00 PM

I didn't realize the A380 was that small when compared to the 747. It isn't that much bigger.

The Mad Hatter!!

January 17th, 2005, 08:03 PM

lee,would you stop.look at the a380's wingspan its huge

huaiwei

January 17th, 2005, 08:04 PM

I didn't realize the A380 was that small when compared to the 747. It isn't that much bigger.
Yes it isnt. Its only marginally longer, but hey, its a full length double-storey bird! ;)

andysimo123

January 17th, 2005, 08:14 PM

Lee are you looking at the right picture the thing is massive. I'll got an email from airbus with special stuff. I dont know if it is or not you may just be able to get it of the web site but here it goes.......
The A380 being painted.A380 being painted (http://www.airbus.com/A380/Images/Reveal/bt_painting.gif) I dont think this link works in firefox try ie.
An image of the A380 http://www.airbus.com/A380/Images/Reveal/a380exclusive.jpg

Plus other info ....
.........
Agenda for JANUARY 18th

08:30
Joint press conference with Noël Forgeard, Airbus President and Chief Executive Officer, and A380 customer Chief Executive Officers.

11:00
Arrival of Heads of
State and Governments

- Mr Jacques Chirac,

President of the French Republic

- The Right Honourable Tony Blair,

Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

- His Excellency Mr Gerhard Schröder,

Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany

- His Excellency Mr José Luis Rodriguez

Zapatero,
President of the Government of the Spanish Kingdom

11:05
Beginning of ceremony.
Aircraft Reveal.
Inauguration of the aircraft.

12:35 End of ceremony.

hkskyline

January 17th, 2005, 09:53 PM

The Airbus A380: from drawing board to runway-ready in a decade

PARIS, Jan 16 (AFP) - The A380, the new Airbus "superjumbo" which will be officially unveiled Tuesday, is the product of a decade of designing, drumming up of advance orders and dreams of knocking Boeing's 747 off its perch as the top bird in passenger transport.

Here are some key dates in its development:

Early 1990s: Airbus begins studying ideas for building an airliner capable of seating more than 500 passengers to compete against Boeing's 747, which started flying in 1970.

June 1994: Airbus begins engineering development of the plane, then known as the A3XX.

July 2000: Emirates Airlines becomes the first company to order the still under-wraps plane, saying it wants to buy seven.

December 19, 2000: Airbus officially launches the plane, calling it the A380.

January 2001: The US freight company Federal Express announces the first order of the cargo version of the A380, reserving 10.

February 20, 2001: Airbus expands its plant in Hamburg, Germany to handle assembly of the interior of A380 cabins. Assembly of the plane itself is to take place in Toulouse, France.

January 23, 2002: Production starts of Airbus A380 components.

July 16, 2002: French President Jacques Chirac lays the first stone in the vast Toulouse hangar used for assembling the A380.

June 15, 2003: Emirates increases its orders to 45 A380s.

July 4, 2003: Inauguration of an Airbus plant in Broughton, Wales, where wings for the A380 are to be made.

August 19, 2003: The first glimpse of the plane being put together in the French city of Nancy, when a big piece of fuselage is unveiled.

March 25, 2004: The front and central sections of the plane are unveiled at the plant in Saint-Nazaire, France, as they are transported to Toulouse. Special measures have to be made to allow the 50-metre long convoys to pass, taking up eight metres across and 12 metres high.

May 7, 2004: French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin inaugurates the Toulouse assembly line.

January 18, 2005: Airbus is to officially unveil a completed A380 in the presence of Chirac, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero.

March 2005: Scheduled first test flight of the plane.

March 2006: Forecast start of the A380 entering commercial service with Singapore Airlines using it between London and Singapore.

2008: The first freight-configured A380s are expected to take to the air.

Lee

January 17th, 2005, 10:01 PM

andy, I never said it wasn't massive. I said it isn't that much larger than the 747 when compared on scale. Not to mention less attractive.

huaiwei

January 17th, 2005, 10:12 PM

andy, I never said it wasn't massive. I said it isn't that much larger than the 747 when compared on scale. Not to mention less attractive.
Less attractive? Well...I have to agree in some angles that it just dosent look as graceful as the B747, but well, I suppose it just needs some getting used to? ;)

hkskyline

January 17th, 2005, 10:15 PM

A380 'superjumbo' will be profitable from 2008: Airbus chief

PARIS, Jan 16 (AFP) - The A380 'superjumbo', which will be presented to the world in a lavish ceremony in southern France on Tuesday, will be profitable from 2008, its maker Airbus told the French financial newspaper La Tribune.

"You need to count another three years," Airbus chief Noel Forgeard told Monday's edition of the newspaper when asked when the break-even point of the 10-billion-euro-plus (13-billion-dollar-plus) A380 programme would come.

So far, 13 airlines have placed firm orders for 139 of the new planes, which can seat between 555 and 840 passengers and which have a catalogue price of between 263 and 286 million dollars (200 and 218 million euros).

The break-even point is calculated to arrive when the 250th A380 is sold.

Airbus figures that, over the next two decades, more than 1,200 aircraft of the size of the A380 will be required for point-to-point routes in the world.

Forgeard said "we are well above our market plan," and added that his aim was to bring in two new airlines as customers each year.

Asked about China adding its airlines' names to the order sheet, Forgeard said he predicted a firm order would be soon forthcoming.

"I am extremely confident that the A380 will be bought by a Chinese company in the first half of this year," he said, without elaborating.

In December, Forgeard hinted that an agreement in principle had been signed with a Chinese airline for five A380s, and Britain's Sunday Times newspaper cited industry sources who said that had been firmed up into actual orders with an option for another five, and that Hong Kong's Cathay Pacific was preparing a similar order.

The Airbus chief told La Tribune there would be Chinese representatives at Tuesday's unveiling ceremony in Toulouse, "notably from the China Southern airline."

hkskyline

January 18th, 2005, 02:08 AM

London's Heathrow airport in big spend to welcome Airbus "superjumbo"

LONDON, Jan 16 (AFP) - London's Heathrow airport is spending 450 million pounds (643 million euros, 842 million dollars) to accommodate new Airbus A380 planes, the first of which was set to roll out of its hangar on Tuesday.

"The A380 will be an important aircraft for Heathrow," airport operator BAA said on its website.

"Its extra capacity will make efficient use of our two busy runways and will make it attractive to airlines operating in busy airport environments such as Heathrow," it added.

BAA said it would spend 450 million pounds "to prepare for the A380 and upgrade Heathrow's busy airfield".

The Airbus A380, which gets presented to the world on Tuesday in a roll-out ceremony in Toulouse, southwest France, is a double-decker "superjumbo" capable of carrying 840 passengers and will rank as one of the biggest machines ever to take to the air.

With a wingspan of 80 metres (262 feet), an overall length of 73 metres (239 feet), a height of 24 metres (79 feet) and a maximum take-off weight of 560 tonnes, the A380 can carry more passengers than any other commercial aircraft.

Heathrow has said that by 2016, it believes the A380, whose customers include British tycoon Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic, could account for one in every eight flights at Heathrow.

This would enable about 10 million more passengers to fly to and from the airport each year with no increase in the number of flights.

Heathrow welcomed 140.1 million passengers in 2004. The airport was meanwhile set to receive its first Airbus A380 in spring 2006.

As well as Virgin Atlantic, other airlines planning to operate the A380 in and out of Heathrow include Singapore Airlines, Australian carrier Qantas, Middle East airline Emirates and Thai Airways International.

"It is a very cost effective plane for us to compete with British Airways," Virgin boss Branson said Sunday.

"It is the biggest plane in the world, it means that the mile cost per seat comes down and therefore it just makes Virgin Atlantic that much more competitive," he told BBC television.

bluga

January 18th, 2005, 05:35 AM

Airbus set to clinch first China sales for A380
Sun Jan 16,10:41 AM ET Business - AFP

LONDON (AFP) - European aircraft maker Airbus is close to clinching two key orders valued at three billion dollars (2.28 billion euros) from China for its new A380 plane.

The Sunday Times quoted industry sources as saying that Airbus was in talks with the Chinese government and Cathay Pacific, the Hong Kong listed carrier.

Although Airbus has already logged dozens of orders for the A380 -- the biggest passenger airliner in the world which will roll out of its assembly hangar on Tuesday -- its success is seen as depending on whether it can interest China, one of the world's biggest operators.

The Sunday Times report said that the Chinese government order, which is likely to be split between two airlines, Air China and China Southern, would be for five aircraft and a similar number of options to buy more.

The order of Cathay Pacific, it said, could be the same size, taking the value of the Chinese contracts, including options, to about three billion dollars.

With the 2008 Beijing Olympics looming, there had been speculation that a Chinese order for the twin-deck, four-engine plane, which can carry some 550 passengers, would be announced at the A380's official roll-out on Tuesday, Hong Kong-based aviation analyst Peter Negline of bankers JPMorgan said earlier.

Such an announcement had already been expected when French President Jacques Chirac visited China in October, and again when German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder was in Beijing in early December.

China's commercial air market is expected to be one of the world's largest in the coming years.

Related link: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1518&ncid=1518&e=1&u=/afp/20050116/bs_afp/europeairtransportcompanyairbusa380chinaorders_050116154118
Uploaded file

elfreako

January 18th, 2005, 07:52 AM

I'm really surprised that the Japanese haven't bought the A380. If they made a short-haul version with 1000 seats they could used them on their domestic routes.

philip

January 18th, 2005, 07:55 AM

http://www.pacmin.com/news/images/A380.jpg

scorpion

January 18th, 2005, 07:56 AM

I'm really surprised that the Japanese haven't bought the A380.

there's POLITICS involved in life, too

ya think???

:runaway:

STR

January 18th, 2005, 08:00 AM

yeah right ! but i never saw a 747 with a space shuttle ontop, wasn' it a russian Antonov instead ? (well even if i doubt the Us would take a russian aircraft for such a meaningfull transport)

Now you have. It's called the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft (SCA) and it it used to ferry the space shuttles across country for maintainence, or when they land at Edwards AFB in California due to bad weather in Florida. The two SCA are converted airliners and the first SCA has been flying since the late 70's, when it was used for landing tests for the shuttle prototype Enterprise. The Second SCA first flew in 1989, ferrying the shuttle Endeavour to Florida for its maiden space flight.

http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/SMALL/GPN-2000-000183.jpg

http://www.sr-71.org/photogallery/sca/sca-05.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/wspaceport/sts68ln2.jpg

philip

January 18th, 2005, 08:01 AM

I'm really surprised that the Japanese haven't bought the A380. If they made a short-haul version with 1000 seats they could used them on their domestic routes.

Japanese favor Boeing's airplanes, they are the first customer to place an order for Boeing's new 7E7 planes (I think they bought quite many), so I don't think they will buy A380 at this time.

huaiwei

January 18th, 2005, 08:06 AM

I'm really surprised that the Japanese haven't bought the A380. If they made a short-haul version with 1000 seats they could used them on their domestic routes.
scorpion is partly right, although the main reason is still because these Japanese airlines have business links (not always directly) with Boeing. Afterall, they become the earliest (and few) airlines to buy the 7E7 for a reason.

Meanwhile, I came to know, that using those huge planes, even the existing B747, to fly domestic and high-demand routes within Japan are not exactly economical, because although they do manage to fill the seats, the costs of operating that plane still undercuts the profits which would have been derived.

kony

January 18th, 2005, 08:12 AM

huaiwei

January 18th, 2005, 08:22 AM

ok thanx STR for hose great pix ! wonderfull !! it's kinda unreal actually.

huaiwei, don't forget that A380 will use 20 % less fuel than the B747 for up to 50 % more ppassengers !!!

japan will buy AV380 one day very soon, that's for sure !!
Hhhmm.....well, that depends till we get more info. How much fuel does these big planes guzzle during take off and landing? This part of the flight eats up the most fuel, and the more the plane needs for that, the less economical it is to fly short range.

philip

January 18th, 2005, 08:30 AM

Hhhmm.....well, that depends till we get more info. How much fuel does these big planes guzzle during take off and landing? This part of the flight eats up the most fuel, and the more the plane needs for that, the less economical it is to fly short range.

I have read it in the news release too, it says 20% less fuel Per passenger mile than the 747-400. Not 20% less Total Fuel, obviously a bigger plane needs more fuel, but airliners can make more money on A380 because fuel cost per passenger is lower.

kony

January 18th, 2005, 08:33 AM

yeah but face the truth...it is the most technogically advanced plane...i really don't see how the boeing 7E7 will do better than this plane respect to fuel usage per pessenger !!

if they want to carry the most passengers inside japan, with just one flight, then the AV380 is the best solution...i don't see how the take off of two B707 at the same time would use less fuel than the take off of one single AV380 , considering the Airbus will carry more passengers than those two B7E7 !(up to 800 pax)

concerning the B747 , it's even not competitive given it's old tecnology and fuel usage ! not to speak about environmental issues...

kony

January 18th, 2005, 08:34 AM

yeah philip, that's right !

huaiwei

January 18th, 2005, 08:41 AM

I have read it in the news release too, it says 20% less fuel Per passenger mile than the 747-400. Not 20% less Total Fuel, obviously a bigger plane needs more fuel, but airliners can make more money on A380 because fuel cost per passenger is lower.
Hmm.....kinda wondering, but the passenger per mile thing obviously takes the average of total fuel consumed divided by distance, without giving us much info on the usage of fuel during take off?

It is probably unlikely, but there is still a likelihood for one plane to use alot more fuel for take offs and landings, while using less when cruising, and yet still ending up having a lower average cost. The problem is for such an aircraft, its cost advantage starts to decline the shorter the range.

Another issue for airlines to consider, especially when you are talking about a short domestic route, is flight frequency and timings. Flying one large plane vs several smaller planes would mean less flights per day, and this dosent always meets the expectations of passengers, nor the airline.

kony

January 18th, 2005, 08:47 AM

yes but this plane does not aim at replacing the smaller airplanes !

it's only the best solution for the overcrowded lines which are subjet to overbooking for instance...

and given that the tourism industry is this one type of industry that works on offer (the more offer the more demand), plus given that some countries like china have just begun to travel oversea, then you can bet that this is a very smart move from airbus to have conducted this great project !!

sorry boeing !

huaiwei

January 18th, 2005, 08:49 AM

I wasent really saying its meant to replace smaller planes either right? In fact, I was saying it isnt neccesarily a right replacement despite being able to fly the same number of people in less trips! ;)

RafflesCity

January 18th, 2005, 01:22 PM

SIA to install only 500 seats in Airbus superjet

18 Jan 05

S'pore carrier will be launch customer of A380, to be unveiled today

By VEN SREENIVASAN
IN TOULOUSE, FRANCE

SINGAPORE Airlines plans to install just 500 seats, instead of the full complement of 555 seats in a three-class configuration in the new Airbus A380, thus giving more space for passenger comfort.

SIA is one of 13 airlines around the world which has placed 139 firm orders for the megajet that will be 'revealed' for the first time to Europe's leaders and the world's media today.

Combining the latest technologies in material, systems and industrial processes and costing billions of euros to develop, the first A380 aircraft will take to the skies next year in the livery of the Singapore carrier, the A380's launch customer. SIA four years ago placed an US$8.6 billion firm order for 10 A380s and another 15 on option.

The A380's other big customers include Emirates, which has ordered 43, Lufthansa (15), Air France (10), Federal Express (10) and International Lease Finance Corp (10). The plane has a range of up to 15,000 km/8,000 nm and boasts 15-20 per cent lower seat-mile cost, making it ideal for long-haul routes such as London-Singapore and Sydney-Los Angeles.

SIA plans to put its first few planes on the London-Singapore-Sydney 'kangaroo route'.

The aircraft that will be unveiled at today's 'Reveal' ceremony at Toulouse's Blagnac airport, is one of four test-planes whose components were built in four European countries, France, Britain, Germany and Spain, the backers of the development of the new super jet. They will not be sold to customers. Instead, the A380 which SIA will take delivery of next year will be the fifth plane, which has yet to be built.

Once production begins, Airbus will build four A380s a month for delivery, but has the capacity to crank up production if demand picks up.

The A380 fits in with Airbus' forecast that passenger traffic will rise by 5 per cent per year over the next two decades, raising demand and utilisation of large aircraft to 3,400 flights a day, with about 70 per cent of them clustered around just 25 airports around the world, including Singapore and Sydney.

Meanwhile, airports around the world are bracing up for the much higher traffic of passengers which the A380s will disgorge each time they touch down.

San Francisco and Singapore airport authorities have said they are already prepared, having invested in higher capacity facilities, while others like New York's JFK, London's Heathrow and Sydney expect to be ready by next year.

Airbus, owned by the European consortium EADS, sold 370 planes last year, beating rival Boeing for the second year in a row to become the world's number one plane-maker.

Isan

January 18th, 2005, 01:55 PM

A giant at 1.2 million pounds, 555 seats

BY LORE CROGHAN
DAILY NEWS BUSINESS WRITER

The Airbus A380
Its wings span the length of a football field - a double-decker giant that's the largest passenger airliner ever built. And it's headed our way - to Kennedy Airport, at least.

The Airbus A380 will be unveiled today in Toulouse, France. Heads of state, and some 5,000 other guests will celebrate the debut of a mammoth flying machine that weighs 1.2 million pounds when fully loaded for takeoff, and seats 555 people - at least.

"The scale factor will be jaw-dropping," said Robert Mann of airline industry consultant R.W. Mann Group. "It will be like walking into a stadium."

The new super-jumbo jet will take to the skies in June 2006, when Singapore Airlines starts flying it.

Its arrival will end the 35-year reign of the Boeing 747 as the largest passenger plane in the skies. The American manufacturer says it isn't going to design anything new to compete with the Airbus A380. Instead, it's at work on a mid-sized aircraft called the 7E7 Dreamliner.

The new Airbus is so big that only major airports will be able to handle takeoffs and landings.

Kennedy will be one of about a dozen U.S. facilities where it will put in an appearance - thanks to $179 million in spending that the Port Authority authorized last spring to widen its runways and make other improvements.

At LaGuardia, the piers that support the runways would buckle under the weight of an A380 - so it won't be showing up there. Newark is unlikely to see the big bird because none of the airlines that use the airport is planning to buy it.

Numerous foreign carriers have ordered the A380, from Air France to Qantas. No American passenger airlines have done so. They're strapped for cash - and the plane's list price is a hefty $280 million, versus the Boeing 747-400's price of $198 million to $227 million.

American delivery services FedEx and United Parcel Service have jumped on the A380 bandwagon and ordered the cargo-carrying version of the plane.

The A380 has an interior layout of two floors. Airbus suggests it be furnished with 555 seats divided into first, business and tourist classes. In all three sections, both the seats and the aisles would be wider than in other kinds of planes.

The manufacturer also envisions bars, restaurants and shops inside the mega-plane. In its early marketing efforts, Airbus talked about things like installing a gym for passengers, and a place to take in-flight showers.

But profit-conscious airlines are likely to skip the amenities, analysts cautioned - and install 800 or more seats per plane.

"The carriers have to figure out how to turn this great potential into a real money-making enterprise," said airline consultant Mann.

Airlines can't charge higher ticket prices for the privilege of riding on the new bird - that tactic won't fly with consumers, analysts said. And though Airbus has promised the A380 will be 15% cheaper to operate than the Boeing 747, that isn't enough of a cost break to enable carriers to discount A380s tickets, and market the planes as bargain rides.

The carriers also have some logistical problems to solve - like how to get people on and off the planes without mind-bending waits. They may need to use multiple jet bridges for a single plane, Mann said. And boarding lounges will need to be rebuilt. Otherwise, "they'll be as crowded as Penn Station," he said.

Isan

January 18th, 2005, 01:56 PM

PARIS -(Dow Jones)- Air France-KLM (AKH) will make its inaugural flight with the A380 superjumbo jet in April 2007, with service from Paris to New York, Chairman Jean-Cyril Spinetta said Tuesday.

Speaking during a radio interview, Spinetta said Air France will take delivery of three Airbus A380's per year in 2007 and 2008, and four in 2009.

He said Air France may order more planes if demand is strong.

"We'll have to see how things are going in the different markets where we operate. For the moment, this aircraft seems perfectly adaptable to the North American routes ... and to Tokyo and Peking in Asia," Spinetta said.

Air France will fit its A380's with 538 seats in first, business and economy classes. Because the A380 is a wider plane and has more space on board than the Boeing 747, each class will have a so-called "pleasure area," the executive said.

Airbus (ABI.YY) is unveiling the A380 Tuesday at a ceremony in Toulouse. Its first delivery, to Singapore Airlines Ltd. (S55.SG), is scheduled for 2006.

huaiwei

January 18th, 2005, 04:41 PM

Posted: 18 January 2005 2155 hrs

Airbus unveils its superjumbo, European leaders hail lead over US

TOULOUSE, France : Airbus unveiled its A380 superjumbo in a glitzy ceremony at which the leaders of France, Britain, Germany and Spain hailed Europe's victory over the United States as the new king of the commercial skies.

The huge new aircraft, which can carry up to 840 people on its two full decks, supersedes the ageing 747 by US rival Boeing as the biggest passenger aircraft ever made.

When it starts flying commercially early next year, it will become the flagship of many airline fleets and offer unprecedented amenities on long-haul services, including, in some cases, gyms, bedrooms and bars.

For the countries which backed the 10.7-billion-euro (14-billion-dollar) development cost, the plane also stands as a prominent symbol of European cooperation.

"Good old Europe has made this possible," German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder told a packed hall in Airbus's headquarters in Toulouse, southwest France.

That was a barely-veiled barb recalling the US dismissal of France, Germany and other EU states as "Old Europe" because of their opposition to the war on Iraq.

Noel Forgeard, the French head of Airbus, made similar hints in his presentation of the A380 during a spectacle marked by computer graphics, atmospheric theme music and swirling colours.

"In this great aircraft, there is a mixture of determination and of dreams, which is, and always has been, at the heart of the wealth and splendid complexity of our European culture," he said.

"The European states -- so easily accused of weakness -- backed this fantastic challenge 35 years ago and have believed in the A380," he said.

The hubris on display was reinforced by recent figures showing that, for the second year running, Airbus has outsold Boeing and now holds some 57 percent of the world market for passenger aircraft.

The company, a majority owned subsidiary of the listed European Aerospace and Defence Company (with 20 percent in the hands of Britain's BAE Systems), forecasts that the A380 will extend that lead.

Thirteen airlines have already placed firm orders for 139 of the planes. Airbus calculates that by 2008 it will reach the break-even point of 250 A380s sold, and from that point it will turn out 35 of the aircraft per year.

The catalogue price of the huge machine -- wingspan of 80 metres (262 feet), overall length of 73 metres (239 feet), height of 24 metres (79 feet) and maximum take-off weight of 560 tonnes -- is between 263 and 286 million dollars, though discounts are frequently applied.

French President Jacques Chirac called the project a "big success" and said: "We can, and we must, go further on this path of European construction so essential for growth and employment."

British Prime Minister Tony Blair said the plane was "the culmination of many years of hard work" and congratulated the workers across Europe who made it happen.

Airline executives at the presentation were superlative in their praise, even though the A380 has yet to undergo test flights scheduled for March or April.

Richard Branson, the head of Britain's Virgin Atlantic, said his airline would pamper passengers on the six A380s ordered by including gyms, beauty parlours, bars -- and even casinos and double beds.

"So alongside our casinos, you'll have at least two ways to get lucky on our flights," Branson joked.

The biggest buyer of the new plane is the Emirates airline, which has ordered 43 because, "the A380 will be the future of air travel," its chairman, Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al-Maktoum, said.

Airbus's success with the A380 has raised hackles at Boeing, which has had relatively little interest in its own new offering, a long-range mid-size plane called the 7E7 Dreamliner.

A bruising challenge and counter-challenge over state subsidies for Boeing and Airbus was headed to the World Trade Organisation until both sides decided to see if three months of negotiations could resolve the dispute.

- AFP

huaiwei

January 18th, 2005, 04:47 PM

Airbus Says 1st A380 Is Lighter Than Target Weight

Jan. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS, the world's largest maker of commercial aircraft, said the first new 555-seat A380 airliner weighed in under target, meeting all performance guarantees and alleviating concern the model would be heavier than planned.

The first aircraft, unveiled today at a ceremony in Toulouse, France, weighs 0.4 percent to 0.5 percent less than a target of 245 tons when empty, Airbus Chief Operating Officer Gustav Humbert said in an interview.

``We can match all the performance guarantees we've made to airlines,'' said Humbert. ``I can really say we are on the safe side.''

Airbus is introducing the A380 to guard a lead over Chicago- based Boeing Co. in the $50 billion-a-year market for airliners seating more than 100. The model's 12 billion-euro ($16 billion) development cost is about 15 percent more than originally budgeted as the Toulouse-based planemaker struggled meet weight guarantees to airline customers and test-flight deadlines.

``In the competition with Boeing, Airbus has the upper hand,'' said Davide Sciannimonaco, head of Italian sales at Societe Generale's Paris-based asset-management unit, which has about $10 billion in assets. ``We can surely expect a counteroffensive from Boeing, maybe adjusting the price of its planes.''

Animated Figures

The planemaker displayed the A380 at an event featuring computer-generated and laser-outlined animated figures, live dancers and acrobats representing Airbus's four partner countries and graphics of the A380's design in a blue-lit auditorium set up in a hangar.

The aircraft was lit up after speeches by French President Jacques Chirac, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero and U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair.

The planemaker is designing the A380 to cost 15 percent less to operate than Boeing's 747-model plane, Humbert said, reiterating an earlier goal. The A380 has a list price of $280 million, compared with $198 million to $227 million for the 747- 400, the Boeing model's latest version.

The plane was physically weighed section by section on special scales, Humbert said. The plane as a whole will be weighed before the first test flight, scheduled for late March or early April, he said. Meeting the performance targets means Airbus isn't liable to pay penalties to the airlines.

``We had a problem with weight,'' and ``We took care of it'' by using different materials, Humbert said. ``We are certain that we won't have to pay any penalties'' to airlines because of overweight questions.

A380's Size

The double-decker A380 has a wingspan of 80 meters (262 feet), almost the length of an American football field. It's 73 meters long and will weigh as much as 569 tons when fully loaded for takeoff. It will have a range of 8,000 nautical miles (14,820 kilometers) compared with 7,600 nautical miles for the Boeing 747- 400. The first plane is scheduled to enter service in June 2006 with Singapore Airlines Ltd.

Forgeard said in July that the A380 was about 2 percent heavier than the weight target set when Airbus first decided to build the plane. Chief Commercial Officer John Leahy said on Jan. 12 that the plane was about 5 tons, or ``less than 1 percent,'' heavier than the target weight when full.

The new model gives Airbus a product line ranging from the 107-seat A318 airliner to an A380 charter-flight version able to seat 800 people.

Market Forecast

Airbus last month forecast that it will win as many as 700 contracts for the A380 in the next 20 years, out of a total market for 1,250 planes seating at least 400 passengers and 398 freighter versions. The planemaker expects the A380 will break even with 250 orders. Boeing's industrywide estimate for larger airliners, by contrast, is only one-third of Airbus's.

Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe's third-biggest airline, will probably order more A380s than the 15 it already has on order, Chief Executive Officer Wolfgang Mayrhuber said.

``Lufthansa has never made only a single order for any type of aircraft,'' Mayrhuber said in an interview in Toulouse.

Richard Branson, Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd.'s owner, told journalists in Toulouse yesterday that his carrier is also likely to buy more A380s. The London-based carrier already has a contract for six of the planes.

Airbus's ``plan to sell 750 of the A380 over the life cycle of the plane is realistic,'' said Tim Albrecht, a fund manager at DWS Investment in Frankfurt.

``One can assume that airlines with big orders of more than 10 planes or those who have committed themselves to buying an A380 very early will get a discount of about 20 percent,'' Albrecht said. ``This would mean that the A380 will sell for about $220 million.''

Shares of European Aeronautic, Defense & Space Co., Airbus's 80 percent owner, fell as much as 65 cents, or 2.7 percent, to 23.05 euros and were down 2 percent at 23.23 euros as of 1:22 p.m. in Paris. Shares of BAE Systems Plc, Airbus's other owner, fell as much as 1.5 pence, or 0.6 percent, to 241.75 pence and were down 0.5 percent at 242 pence in London.

Aquarius

January 18th, 2005, 04:58 PM

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/52006853.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1EC9635E468F3456717757C85AE85A779Bhttp://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/52006867.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1EAF499CBD4A696C987757C85AE85A779B

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/52006871.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1EDF4C97FCC5BA98B57757C85AE85A779Bhttp://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/52006858.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1EB7D0FE777630F1CF7757C85AE85A779B

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/52006925.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1ECA0679A7F9F5A4497757C85AE85A779Bhttp://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/52006681.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1E7BA2EB635BD2A90E7757C85AE85A779B

huaiwei

January 18th, 2005, 05:02 PM

MCarr

January 18th, 2005, 05:13 PM

The new Airbus livery looks great too!!!

MVL318

January 18th, 2005, 06:02 PM

The new airbus livery is better then the old one but I still don't like it. :no:

hkskyline

January 18th, 2005, 06:17 PM

Melbourne upgrades for A380
Tansy Harcourt TOULOUSE
19 January 2005
Australian Financial Review

Melbourne airport has awarded construction group John Holland the project to expand its runway to accommodate the new supersized Airbus A380 aircraft.

John Holland will start work on April 5 and is expected to take up to six weeks to complete the widening of the 3.7 kilometre north-south runway by 15 metres.

Melbourne Airport's owners will spend about $50 million upgrading the runway to handle the 544-tonne A380, which has a wingspan of about 80 metres, and building new aero bridges to cater for its 24 metre height.

The airport is trying to become the first in Australia to be "A380 ready" in the hope that it will encourage the aircraft's first users, Emirates, Qantas and Singapore Airlines, to use Melbourne over Sydney for the trial services of the aircraft.

It is believed Emirates has already decided to fly the aircraft to Melbourne.

Work at Sydney Airport, which is expected to eventually be a major destination for the A380, is yet to begin because of a lack of agreement with the airlines over cost recovery for the works.

However, Sydney Airport boss Max Moore-Wilton is believed to have said the work will be done before the first A380 arrives in Australia next year.

The first fully constructed A380 was "revealed" in the French city of Toulouse last night, in front of more than 5000 guests, including the leaders of Britain, France, Germany and Spain and all 14 launch customers.

Whether airports will be ready to accommodate the supersized aircraft in just over a year has been controversial across the world.

Virgin Atlantic last year year cited a lack of preparedness by Los Angeles airport as a reason for delaying its first deliveries of the plane.

Speaking from the Toulouse unveiling, Melbourne airport chief executive Chris Barlow said he was confident the work at Melbourne would be completed on time.

"Around the world airports are planning for several months of construction to complete the runway widening works. The John Holland Group's staff will work around the clock to complete Melbourne Airport's massive widening project in just four to six weeks," he said.

Airlines operating large aircraft on long-haul flights out of Melbourne are expected to face scheduling issues while the work is being undertaken because the runway being upgraded is the only one that can handle the take-off weight of a fully loaded long-haul aircraft.

Carriers are expected to either fly with reduced loads from Melbourne or else send passengers to Sydney to change planes there for the international leg of their trip.

KEY POINTS
· Melbourne Airport will spend $50 million preparing for the A380.
· It wants to be the first Australian airport fit to take the heavy plane.
· Passengers will face disruption in the construction period.

Mike

January 18th, 2005, 10:06 PM

From The Economist Global Agenda

Boeing’s latest attempt to put things right, the 250-seat 7E7 “Dreamliner”, is born out of a belief that passengers will demand, and future deregulation allow, a big increase in “point-to-point” travel: direct flights between small and medium-sized cities, as opposed to the traditional hub-and-spoke model, in which international passengers fly between a few major airports and are then taken to more out of the way places on feeder flights.

That's a very interesting question. Hub and spoke systems almost always develop where there is no full mesh of connections between all points possible (for whatever reasons, space, costs, complexity,etc...). Now in case of air as the connecting medium one could think that there don't have to be any highways or tracks or lines to be constructed between any two points. You simply start at point A and fly straight to point B, don't you?

Well, actually you don't, as in reality there are in fact highways in the air - airways. And just like highways on the ground each airway has to be "constructed" and "maintained" which creates costs and makes a fully meshed network economically impossible. Airways have to be constructed because if the volume of air traffic rises above a certain level (which is the case in most industrialized countries) the risk of collisions rises above acceptable levels, therefore traffic has to be ordered and directed to make it possible to effectively control it - airways are drawn in the sky. Thanks to the 3 dimensions of air you can of course layer alot of airways above each other but since there always has to be a minimum safety distance between them space is nonetheless limited. Furthermore airways cannot follow any route but have to stay as long over land as possible in order to enable emergency landings - this further shortens the available space. Then there are often no-fly zones above military areas, nuclear reactors, chemical plants or simply densily populated areas which also reduce available space. In the end you have a limited space which results in a limited number of possible airways which results in hub and spoke system as some points (hubs) will have to be given preference over others (spokes) in the assignment of connections. It is no coincidence that in nature you rarely find a fully meshed network as there is always some kind of cost associated with the construction of connections.

To sum it up: air travel allows more direct connections between two points than does ground based travel due to the 3 dimensional space it is using, yet even 3D space is limited and as such we will never see anything like a fully meshed network but rather a continuation of the current hub and spoke system with some augmented direct connections. For the 7E7 I expect it to sell well, but it won't revolutionize air travel, nor will the basic mechanics of hub and spoke be shaken. And the A380 will certainly sell well since major hubs can increase passenger throughput with the same amount of flights.

Lee

January 18th, 2005, 10:43 PM

I think today is a proud day for Airbus and Boeing. For Airbus it is the day its technological ability is on display to the world. For Boeing, confirmation of its might in that it has taken 35 years for someone to come up with a worthy competitor to the 747.

Lee

January 18th, 2005, 11:22 PM

By the way, the apperances of Blair, Chirac, Zapatero and Shroeder couldn't be more blatant implication of how the government subsidizes Airbus. I didn't see Clinton there with the launch of the 777.

nick_taylor

January 18th, 2005, 11:52 PM

^^ why bother with Clinton when you can get the Pentagon there instead :laugh:

vincent

January 19th, 2005, 04:17 AM

Size comparison: An-225, A380, 747-400 (from ssp forum)
http://ebozz.net/photos/8581.jpg
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,426397,00.jpg

kony

January 19th, 2005, 06:24 AM

very good mike, your explanation was on the point annd quite easy to understand and agree...it make a lot of sense what you said...

it makes boeing claims look a bit like a big lie as their presumptions is based on the huge need of connection between small/medium-sized cities , and the ability of the 7E7 to fullfill that specific need !

but in fact it's much easier to say than to do, so your post was very useful in understanding that ;)

philip

January 19th, 2005, 08:13 AM

For the 7E7 I expect it to sell well, but it won't revolutionize air travel, nor will the basic mechanics of hub and spoke be shaken.

Very well said Mike and Kony.

Whoever still thinks 7E7 will Revolutionize air travel just consider this, 7E7 already exists, how many 300-seats airplanes do we have today? 7E7 is nothing new, it's just a newer version of the medium-sized airplanes. The main advantage of 7E7 is more fuel efficiency, higher indoor humidity, and larger windows all wrapped up with a newer skin.

7E7 is like an improved version of Toyota Camry, whereas A380 is like a stretched version of Mercedes Benz.

vincent

January 19th, 2005, 10:24 AM

vincent

January 19th, 2005, 10:34 AM

i think 7E7 use a high percentage of carbon fiber, lighter material (save fuel), other than A380, does any other planes use it??

huaiwei

January 19th, 2005, 04:29 PM

but i thought the first 380 only got small part of seats installed. So i guess the final prototype would be couple percent higher than target??
Hm....the article didnt say much, but I think the target it is refering to here is the empty weight...without seats and all. Whether the targeted weight for a fully equiped and loaded plane has been met is yet to be tested thou...?

hkskyline

January 19th, 2005, 06:13 PM

With so many passengers and outdated weight assumptions used to calculate flight safety measures, the next step will probably be updating those assumptions to today's standards. Imagine a plane of 800 passengers using a 10% underweight measure. That may result in a plane crash.

huaiwei

January 19th, 2005, 06:17 PM

Yeah....with people eating more fast food nowadays, it might help to offer less seats on flights out of Hong Kong, for example. ;)

hkskyline

January 19th, 2005, 06:33 PM

Actually, overcapacity problems are much larger in Singapore, with a large number of seats on budget carriers and not enough passenger growth to support it. In fact, industry watchers are awaiting consolidation and possibly bankruptcies in that sector.

The overweight problem is much more problematic in North America, especially in America, where average weights are shooting higher and higher while aviation standards haven't kept up with this growth. This is a well-publicized problem that most American aviation industry followers should know. :)

huaiwei

January 19th, 2005, 06:38 PM

hkskyline

January 19th, 2005, 06:42 PM

hkskyline

January 19th, 2005, 06:46 PM

After fanfare, Airbus A380 now must prove it can fly

PARIS, Jan 19 (AFP) - After its glitzy debut, the new Airbus super-jumbo jet A380 now must prove soon it can fly, and eventually turn a profit.

Airbus unveiled the world's biggest passenger jet Tuesday at a spectacular sound-and-light ceremony in Toulouse, southern France, where the leaders of France, Britain, Germany and Spain cheered Airbus's latest victory over Boeing for aviation dominance.

The spotlight moment came as Airbus celebrates its second straight year of besting Boeing in global aircraft sales, and an estimated 57 percent share of the passenger aircraft market.

At the ceremony in Toulouse, where Airbus is based, the company's chief executive Noel Forgeard indicated the maiden test flight for the A380 would be held in late March or early April.

But the exact date will be kept under wraps to "not put pressure on the test pilots," he said.

Indeed, time is short for the grandest project envisioned by the European aircraft maker to take a reality test. The Airbus flagship is due to enter service next year.

The stakes could hardly be higher.

The development cost of the project amounts to 10.7 billion euros (13.9 billion dollars), borne by Airbus which is 80 percent owned by the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company and 20 percent by BAE Systems of Britain.

Airbus expects the project will break even in 2008 with the sale of 250 A380s. Currently, Airbus has firm orders for 139 of the planes from 13 airlines around the globe.

The behemoth, the world's first double-decker passenger plane, carries a catalogue price of 263-286 million dollars, however, aircraft discounts are commonplace. Once past the break-even point, Airbus is banking on selling 35 A380s a year.

For Claude Lelaie, the Airbus chief of test flights who will make the inaugural A380 flight with his chief test pilot, Jacques Rosay, the moment of truth begins simply.

"Fear -- there's not much time to think about it," Lelaie told Europe 1 radio Wednesday.

"The first flight is an extremely simple flight, in itself. We begin with just getting to know the plane. We have to find out what's in its belly," Lelaie said.

"You have to see if the landing gear pulls up right, how the plane behaves at a fast speed, if the flight controls are well-adapted... and bring the plane back down safely," he said.

Nevertheless, parachutes are a must for test pilots.

"Yes, it's true that we have a parachute on our backs and an evacuation hatch," he said in the radio interview. "Perhaps not for the first flight, but for the later ones in which we'll test the plane's vibration norms and we try very, very high speeds to test its limits compared with normal flight, there is a little more risk."

Asked about the date for the test flights, Lelaie replied: "We will fly when the plane is ready. As for us, we are ready."

The public will get its first look at the A380 super-jumbo jet at the Paris Air Show in June.

And the first commercial deliveries -- to Singapore Airlines -- are due in the first quarter of 2006.

The A380, which will break the monopoly held by Boeing's 747 on the super-jumbo market, represents a huge economic gamble for Airbus and symbolizes the emergence of Airbus as king of the skies.

The program, launched in December 2000, banks on a strategy of transporting huge numbers of passengers.

Boeing, for its part, is skeptical about the A380's commercial prospects and instead sees the need for long-distance, fuel-efficient flight, embodied in its future 7E7 plane.

Beyond the two rivals' differences on strategy, they do agree on at least one thing for their future planes: Both companies have chosen blue, grey and white color schemes.

huaiwei

January 19th, 2005, 07:26 PM

What value does your comment have on Americans' overweight problemissue and how it affects safety in the skies? Don't sidestep the issue here.

So you haven't been following this issue. I thought it was quite prominent and easy for aviation followers to pick up.
Haha...again I see your illness erupting again. Me sidestep from what? You know what I was talking about?

What do you mean by MY comment on Americans' overweight "problemissue"? Was it my comment, or YOURS?

hkskyline

January 19th, 2005, 07:51 PM

Here is an example why I brought up the weight issue. Especially with a plane with so many passengers, how large a margin of error will it take before air safety is comprised?

I wonder how the Hong Kong capacity issue has anything to do with the overweight problem. Perhaps some people don't think before they write?

Obviously, fixtures are easy to account for because they can be easily weighted and that is fixed. However, passenger weights do fluctuate and have been rising. Does anyone else have a take on this weight issue?

Extra weight led to crash; People 567 lbs. heavier than thought Ministry alters its standard estimates
Toronto Star
08 October 2004

When Georgian Express Flight 126 took off from Pelee Island airport on an afternoon last January, its engine was running and its structure was sound, but one thing was amiss: it was 1,270 pounds overweight.

Soon after, the plane crashed into the ice of Lake Erie, killing the pilot and all nine passengers on board.

Six months later, an investigation by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada revealed about half of the extra weight was on board because the calculated weight for the people on the flight using old standard weights was 567 pounds less than their actual weight.

The investigation has led the Ministry of Transportation to use higher safety values for standard average weight of passengers on all airplanes.

Increasing standard passenger average weights by 15 pounds for adult males and 25 pounds for adult females was in response to a recommendation by the safety board.

The board released two major recommendations for the ministry.

The first asks for a re-evaluation of the standard average weights. The second urges "the use of actual passenger weights for aircraft carrying nine passengers or fewer, to provide a greater margin of safety."

While standard passenger weights have been revised, the ministry is still studying the second recommendation, ministry spokesperson Lucy Vignola told the Toronto Star yesterday.

Steve Darling of Toronto-based Cameron Airline said he supports the recommendation to use actual weight measures, but doubted it will have a big impact on how pilots conduct themselves. "(By law) we can use standard weights at our leisure ... but our company's policy has always been to use actual weights if we are anywhere close to operating capacity, and this is standard procedure for professional pilots," he said.

Safety board investigator Denis Rivard said the reason behind the "actual weight" recommendation is that the risk of being overweight in small aircraft is higher than in bigger ones.

"In small aircraft, for example the Cessna Caravan involved in the (Pelee Island) accident, the ratio of passenger weight to total weight is 22 per cent whereas in a 747, it is around 7 per cent."

huaiwei

January 19th, 2005, 07:56 PM

I wonder how the Hong Kong capacity issue has anything to do with the overweight problem. Perhaps some people don't think before they write?
Was I talking about Hong Kong capacities? :lol:

Do you think before answering to my "toughtless" posts? ;)

And lets be honest. Do you even know what I was talking about? You cant seem to understand my jokes or sarcasms, but then again, that is the fun of it all! :lol:

drwho

January 19th, 2005, 08:31 PM

what are you two fighting about now?:)

andysimo123

January 19th, 2005, 10:50 PM

If a large amount of fat people get on the place am sure the staff will notice and the airline will take the right measures to stop the fat people grounding the plane.

hkskyline

January 19th, 2005, 11:45 PM

Actually, some American carriers tried forcing fatter people to pay for 2 seats, however, legal challenges forced the airlines to back off.

I wonder what thinking kind of thinking process can drive someone to say :
Yeah....with people eating more fast food nowadays, it might help to offer less seats on flights out of Hong Kong, for example.
which has no relevance to the issue on hand. Sarcasm is not an excuse to waste a post, and I wonder what kind of research he has done before making such an absurd point. Is sarcasm an excuse for idiocy? Are moderators allowed to get away with this?

hkskyline

January 19th, 2005, 11:46 PM

American Airlines doubtful about Airbus A380
January 19, 2005

NEW YORK(AFP) - A top American Airlines executive expressed doubts on the merits of Airbus A380, unveiled this week in France with great fanfare.

The world's biggest jumbo jet to be produced by the European consortium "doesn't really fit with the way we see the world market in the future," said James Beer, chief financial officer of American Airlines parent AMR during a conference call.

The A380 superjumbo, which can carry up to 840 people on its two full decks, will overtake the 747 by US rival Boeing as the biggest civilian aircraft ever made.

Beer, who spoke during a conference call on the company's fourth-quarter results, noted that American had deferred delivery on 54 aircraft from Boeing as a result of financial pressures.

Asked about the Boeing 7E7 "Dreamliner," the US manufacturer's smaller, more economical aircraft, Beer said the airline had no near-term plans to buy any but that it was "clearly a long-term possibility."

no name

January 20th, 2005, 01:55 AM

it would be great if boeing developed and the 747 advance and then watch it fail against the a380

scorpion

January 20th, 2005, 02:01 AM

so I guess American Airlines just 'ain't buyin' nothin'-- no wonder Beer is doubtful about anything other than holding onto his precious job

aatbloke

January 20th, 2005, 02:24 AM

in my opinon theres no need for the a380 or even the 747 anymore,atleast not right now
Why? Demand for air travel is increasing.

doubt the livery will look like that
Care to tell us why?

France, Germany and the UK are the main builders of the A380. Actually, 40% of it is made in the US, and some other parts in Spain. Do those countries represent Europe?
Of course Spain represents Europe. The point is, Airbus as a company is a European consortium.

Spain certainly does!
Anyway... I don't think boeing planes are 100% built in the USA Lee!
Do you do anything else in life apart from bashing Europe/European projects and glorify usa/usa projects?! :|
Grow up!!
No - Lee is notorious for his blinkered anti-European stance.

You are right, Boeing planes are not 100% made in the US. Over 30% of the 7e7 will be made in Japan. My point was that this plane isn't exclusively "european" because most european nations aren't even involved, and non-european nations like the US are building large parts of it, like for example its software-produced by Honeywell.
You're completely missing the point Lee. Airbus is a European company, and this is a product of that European company. It's no different to Ford - it's an American company, but do you think it's products are 100% US-sourced? Far from it.

"makes me proud beeing european"-rufi
yea i would be to,i feel the same way when i see a 747.
hopefully the a380 is a sucess(not more than 747),but i still hope that boeing does better than airbus.
This pathetic US vs European argument is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that the A380, 7E7 and the likes are spearheading renewed impetus in the airline industry - and that's good for every country.

I didn't realize the A380 was that small when compared to the 747. It isn't that much bigger.
It's large enough, don't you think Lee? Of course, I'm sure that had the A380 have been an American product, you'd have been raving about it's size. After all, big is best eh Lee? You really can't stand it, can you?

andy, I never said it wasn't massive. I said it isn't that much larger than the 747 when compared on scale. Not to mention less attractive.
What kind of plane which holds 400-500 passengers can be considered attractive? These vehicles generally have a function. If you want to discuss the most attractive commercial aircraft ever to have graced the skies, look no further than that produced by one joint venture between British Aerospace and Aerospatiale - the Concorde.

I think today is a proud day for Airbus and Boeing. For Airbus it is the day its technological ability is on display to the world. For Boeing, confirmation of its might in that it has taken 35 years for someone to come up with a worthy competitor to the 747.
...and Boeing hasn't ever put a supersonic airliner into service. Lee, will you ever be capable of giving full credit to someone other than Americans?

By the way, the apperances of Blair, Chirac, Zapatero and Shroeder couldn't be more blatant implication of how the government subsidizes Airbus. I didn't see Clinton there with the launch of the 777.
Perhaps that's because Blair, Chirac, Schroeder, et al are more interested in their countries' achievements than pouncing on anything in a skirt that smiles at them.

EarlyBird

January 20th, 2005, 03:00 AM

By the way, the apperances of Blair, Chirac, Zapatero and Shroeder couldn't be more blatant implication of how the government subsidizes Airbus. I didn't see Clinton there with the launch of the 777.

Plus there's also the fact that the 777 was hardly a technological breakthrough. It was a lower quality version of a plane Airbus already had in service. This is the largest passenger plane in the world. Hardly a comparison is it?

huaiwei

January 20th, 2005, 06:22 AM

I wonder what thinking kind of thinking process can drive someone to say :

which has no relevance to the issue on hand. Sarcasm is not an excuse to waste a post, and I wonder what kind of research he has done before making such an absurd point. Is sarcasm an excuse for idiocy? Are moderators allowed to get away with this?
:lol: Actually, its just an indirect joke based on this post:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=162399

Too bad you cant see the humour in there. Moderators cant joke? Well thats new. Meanwhile, if my post is that wasteful, why you bother replying to it? ;)

hkskyline

January 20th, 2005, 06:26 AM

Humour is no excuse for something irrelevant to the issue on hand, unless you have nothing relevant to contribute anymore.

hkskyline

January 20th, 2005, 06:28 AM

Branson considers setting up new airline to fly Pacific routes - report
20 January 2005
AFX Asia

SYDNEY (XFN-ASIA) - British entrepreneur Richard Branson will set up another Australia-based airline to fly across the Pacific if plans by Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd to fly the route do not proceed, The Australian newspaper reported quoting Branson. The newspaper said that the launch of the Airbus A380 prototype in Toulouse, France brings rival airlines closer to flying to route with the super-jumbos. As a result, Branson is prepared to set up a 51 pct owned Australian company with separate institutional shareholders if necessary.

"If we can work it with Virgin Blue, that will be great," he told the newspaper. "If the board of Virgin Blue decides just to keep it to short haul (flying), then we'll be looking for other Australian partners." Branson's comments came as Qantas Airways Ltd announced it will dedicate its first four 501-seat A380s to its US services when it begins flying the aircraft in the second half of next year. This comes in the wake of an announcement from Singapore Airlines chief executive Chew Choong Seng, who said he would like to fly the A380 between Sydney and Los Angeles. Qantas has ordered 12 A380s, with options for 10 more, and said the first dozen planes would allow the airline to fly at least 17 weekly services between Melbourne and Sydney and Los Angeles and 14 to London via Bangkok, Hong Kong and Singapore.

hkskyline

January 20th, 2005, 06:29 AM

Australia : Jumbo battle of the cities
KAAREN MORRISSEY
20 January 2005
Geelong Advertiser

THE traditional rivalry between Sydney and Melbourne stepped up a notch yesterday as their two international airports began the battle to become the first local city to receive the new super jumbo A380 aircraft.

Melbourne Airport said yesterday that it would definitely be the first airport to be "A380 ready" when work to widen its runways to accommodate the 80-metre wingspan aircraft is completed this May, at least seven months ahead of Sydney Airport.

But although Melbourne will be rearing to go by the time the first long haul 555-seater A380s are due to arrive in Australia from June next year, the airlines involved are likely to head to Sydney first.

Singapore Airlines, which will be the first carrier to use the planes commercially, is certainly expecting an initial landing in Sydney.

"We would anticipate flying the Kangaroo route -- London, Singapore, Sydney -- quite early so we are keen to see that Sydney Airport will be A380 ready,' Singapore Airlines group communications managing director Stephen Foreshaw said.

"We are hopeful and fairly confident that all of the arrangements will be in place by the time that the aircraft is scheduled to operate here."

Mr Foreshaw said the airline was also in discussions with Melbourne Airport and that it anticipates "Melbourne will follow Sydney for the operation of the aircraft fairly quickly."

A Melbourne Airport spokeswoman said the airport did not, at this stage, expect to take line honours in the race but pointed out that discussions with the international airlines that have ordered the aircraft are continuing, and airline schedules were a long way from being finalised.

"In any case, we expect to see them flying into Melbourne reasonably quickly after their introduction," she said.

Emirates, which has ordered 45 of the $260 million aircraft, said yesterday it had not yet decided whether it would fly first to Sydney or Melbourne.

Other airlines intending to fly A380s to and from Australia are Malaysian, Thai, and Qantas, which is planning to direct some of its 12 A380s the aircraft to a Melbourne/Los Angeles route.

Airlines say the ability to move more people at one time is economical and cost efficient.

huaiwei

January 20th, 2005, 06:30 AM

Humour is no excuse for something irrelevant to the issue on hand, unless you have nothing relevant to contribute anymore.
And who are you to say that?

hkskyline

January 20th, 2005, 06:34 AM

huaiwei

January 20th, 2005, 06:37 AM

How does your comment relate to the overweight problem - specifically the aviation assumptions used by pilots when they draw up their flight plans? So is it a comment without substantiation, without thought, and without relevance to the issue being discussed?
You still dont see the humour in it, do you? :lol:

(I am seriously beginning to wonder why am I bothered about this, but oh well)

hkskyline

January 20th, 2005, 06:38 AM

I don't see how it is adding value to this thread, but then, some people need to keep their post counts high, so things spew out from nowhere.

A hulking beast joins the dogfight
Jan 18th 2005
From The Economist Global Agenda

http://www.economist.com/images/GA/2005w04/bab.jpg
Airbus has unveiled its new A380 super-jumbo (pictured). Will the 555-seat monster leave Boeing trailing in its wake?

AS DISTINCTIVE Routemaster double-decker buses disappear from the streets of London, Airbus has unveiled a double-decker passenger jet that it hopes will repeat the success of a vehicle that is every bit as iconic: Boeing’s 747. The European consortium’s A380 super-jumbo, which was formally presented at a lavish ceremony on Tuesday January 18th, will break the 747’s longstanding monopoly of the big-jet market when it enters service in 2006. Everything about the new plane is big, from its capacity of 555 paying customers and range of 15,000km (9,320 miles) to the vast curtain that billowed to the ground revealing the A380 bathed in blue light. Bigger, longer-range versions are planned and so far orders have been taken for 149 super-jumbos, over halfway to break-even point.

The size of the project reflects estimates about the future demand for air travel. Despite the recent travails of big airlines, both Airbus and Boeing expect a tripling of air-passenger traffic over the next 20 years. But the transatlantic rivals disagree about how the demand should be met. Airbus thinks an extra 16,600 new large planes (over 100 seats)—a doubling of the number of passenger aircraft currently flying—will do the trick, and expects that the average number of seats in aircraft will increase by 20%, to 215. By contrast, Boeing expects sales of 18,600 slightly smaller planes.

Airbus is hoping that the A380 will help it retain the lead it gained over Boeing in 2003, when, for the first time since the European consortium emerged as a rival to Boeing in the early 1970s, it delivered more aircraft than its American competitor. Airbus, to Boeing’s extreme displeasure, kept the number-one slot in 2004 by delivering 320 planes compared with 285 from its rival, according to figures released this week.

Boeing’s seemingly unassailable lead over Airbus was founded on the success of the 747, which entered service in 1970. The original jumbo jet could carry twice as many passengers as the next largest plane then flying and had a greater range, allowing, for example, a long transatlantic flight without refuelling. Its cost per passenger mile was around one-third less than its rivals. A vast home market for the jumbo and the rest of the Boeing range ensured its ascendancy. Some 1,400 747s have been sold to date.

However, only 15 were delivered last year. And as the jumbo has aged, Boeing’s domination of the commercial airways has foundered. The aerospace giant’s product line is ailing, and attempts to revive it have met with only partial success. The big airlines showed little interest in an upgraded jumbo. And a red-faced Boeing was forced to withdraw its Sonic Cruiser, a plane intended to fly at near the speed of sound, after airlines rejected the idea that passengers would pay a hefty premium for such rapid transit.

Boeing’s latest attempt to put things right, the 250-seat 7E7 “Dreamliner”, is born out of a belief that passengers will demand, and future deregulation allow, a big increase in “point-to-point” travel: direct flights between small and medium-sized cities, as opposed to the traditional hub-and-spoke model, in which international passengers fly between a few major airports and are then taken to more out of the way places on feeder flights. Boeing hopes the new plane will prove popular with the time-conscious business flyer. It says that the 7E7’s advanced engines will cut airlines’ fuel costs by 20%. So far it has received 56 firm orders.

The A380, by contrast, is designed to fly between big hubs. Its critics say it will mean longer journey times for passengers with onward flights to smaller destinations. But Airbus is claiming a similar step-change to the one that accompanied the launch of the 747: operating costs will be 15-20% lower than those of any rival aircraft, it says. To add to Boeing’s discomfort, Airbus announced in December that it would introduce the A350 in direct competition with the Dreamliner, offering much the same specifications.

Boeing’s fears that it would be left in Airbus’s wake also prompted it to attack on another front. In October, America made a formal complaint to the World Trade Organisation alleging the payment of billions of dollars of “unfair” subsidies to Airbus. Boeing claims that “launch aid” has enabled Airbus to roll out five new products in the past ten years while it has managed just one. Like Airbus’s rapid response to the Dreamliner, the European Union immediately said that it would file a counter-claim over large sums of aid going to Boeing through indirect government subsidies from its relationship with NASA and the Pentagon. This week, the EU said that it was ready to compromise to resolve the dispute and both sides agreed to suspend hostilities (and subsidies) for three months of negotiations.

The huge projected market for passenger jets over the coming years will allow both aircraft-makers to sell plenty of new planes. The A380 aside, Airbus and Boeing seem evenly matched. The success of the super-jumbo may well determine how much higher the Europeans fly than the Americans in the next few years.

huaiwei

January 20th, 2005, 06:45 AM

I don't see how it is adding value to this thread, but then, some people need to keep their post counts high, so things spew out from nowhere.
And as I asked...who are you? Why do anyone need to tailor their postings based on how YOU value their contributions?

With such a mindset deeply seated in your consciouness, I am beginning to wonder what is going to happen should you take up a leadership position here. Hmm...I will have to seriously evaluate this phenomena.

Meanwhile, my post counts are as high as they are, because I have to ask questions at least 3 times to certain kinds of people, as well as countless posts dealing with folks too shallow to understand jokes. I cant really help it, can I? :D

huaiwei

January 20th, 2005, 06:47 AM

Business Times - 19 Jan 2005

Heralding new age of mass travel

World's biggest passenger aircraft will fly further and cost less to operate

By VEN SREENIVASAN
IN TOULOUSE, FRANCE

THE world's largest passenger aircraft was unveiled at Toulouse before leaders of four European nations, the chief executives of the customer airlines, scores of invited guests and over 800 members of the global media.

At the elaborate 'A380 Reveal' ceremony at Jean-Luc Lagadere Final Assembly Line at Toulouse yesterday, President Jacques Chirac of France, Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain, Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder of Germany and Jose Luis Zapatero of Spain - the four countries which led the project - hailed the completion of the A380 as a testament to European cooperation and technological excellence.

Meanwhile at a press conference held an hour before the unveiling, chief executives of the 14 customers which together had placed orders for 149 of these 555-seat aircraft, painted their vision of how the giant plane would help their companies achieve greater success and market strength.

The plane which was presented yesterday was a test plane. But after another 12 months of rigorous testing for every conceivable 'bug', the first plane will be delivered next year to Singapore Airlines, making it the first commercial user of the huge bird.

Singapore Airlines placed its US$8.6 billion order for 25 planes, of which 10 are on firm order, in September 2000, just one of 14 airlines around the world which have placed firm orders for the giant plane. Airbus' other customers include Emirates (45 planes), Lufthansa (15 planes), Air France (10 planes), Federal Express (10 planes) and International Lease Finance Corp (10 planes).

SIA chief executive Chew Choon Seng confirmed that the first four planes which SIA will take delivery of next year will be put on the London-Singapore and Singapore-Sydney routes. He added that SIA was also eyeing the Sydney-Los Angeles route, when it becomes available. (Australia has yet to grant SIA access to the route).

'We were not the first to place the order for the plane,' Mr Chew said at the press conference yesterday. 'But we were the swing customer whose order enabled Airbus to go ahead with the project in December 2000.'

Mr Chew added that SIA decided to place its order after Airbus assured it that the plane would meet three key criteria: seat 25 per cent more passengers than the existing competition while boasting the same or better range; offer up to 15 per cent increase in operating cost savings; and meet key environmental criteria in fuel efficiency and noise reduction.

Indeed, this is a plane which carries 35 per cent more passengers than the Boeing 747-400, flies 10 per cent further and costs up to 15 per cent less to use.

But customer airline chief executives said one of the key advantages of the A380 - which can seat over 800 passengers in a single class configuration - is the ability it gives airlines to fly more passengers to crowded airports (like London Heathrow) where gaining lot availability is a big problem.

Mr Chew said that SIA would decide on exercising its option for the remaining 15 planes within the next two years. Meanwhile, it is gradually phasing out its fleet of 27 B747-400 planes.

The airline is also busy working on configuring the interior for its first planes, using global interior design consultants like James Park and Bluebay. It will unveil its interior for its first planes within the next couple of months. Mr Chew said that in order to enhance comfort and provide more space, SIA's A380 planes will have less than 480 seats.

But others have even bigger ideas for their planes. Virgin Atlantic's Richard Branson plans to add gymnasiums, bars, casinos and even double beds side by side.

'Along with the casino, our passengers will have two ways of getting lucky,' he quipped cheekily. Virgin is buying six planes.

Meanwhile, Thai International's Narongsak Sangapong sees the A380 boosting Bangkok's new Suvarnabumi airport's status as a regional air hub.

'We will have five of the 120 gates catering exclusively for the A380,' he said. 'And we will also have the world's biggest hangar, capable of housing three A380s at a time.'

Whatever the differences in vision, everyone gathered at Toulouse yesterday seemed to agree on one thing: the A380 heralds a new age of mass travel.

Copyright © 2004 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd. All rights reserved.

hkskyline

January 20th, 2005, 06:51 AM

huaiwei

January 20th, 2005, 06:56 AM

So a comment about cutting capacity in Hong Kong with no substantiation but masked under the excuse humour is relevant to the discussion about potential weight problems when using the A380? How do you logically tie the two concepts together for the comment to make sense? So are moderators allowed to get out of point without consequence?

Now I've asked that same question mote than 3 times by now :)
No substance? No dear. A joke has greater impact and humour without having to be explained. If I have to actually explain to you what it is, then is it my fault that you cant see the humour? :lol:

In fact, I have already posted the stuff whereby my joke was based on. I suppose you still cant see the link. Too bad, and yeah, I seriously dont care how many times you are going to ask. Why? Coz unlike you, I dont call myself efficient. I dont claim that I can talk saliently. I dont fly the Atlantic, spend time in a city, and come back with a one-liner answer after repeated questionings.

So, ask away! :lol:

hkskyline

January 20th, 2005, 07:03 AM

So there is no explanation, which means there is no substance.

Anyway, back to the weight issue. Not only do overweight airplanes pose a safety risk, as evidenced by the plane crash in Canada, it is also costing airlines a lot more money in fuel.

Obesity; U.S. CDC says obesity weighing down planes
27 November 2004
Obesity, Fitness & Wellness Week

Heavy suitcases aren't the only things weighing down airplanes and requiring them to burn more fuel, pushing up the cost of flights. A new government study reveals that airlines increasingly have to worry more about the weight of their passengers.

America's growing waistlines are hurting the bottom lines of airline companies as the extra pounds on passengers are causing a drag on planes. Heavier fliers have created heftier fuel costs, according to the government study.

Through the 1990s, the average weight of Americans increased by 10 pounds, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The extra weight caused airlines to spend $275 million to burn 350 million more gallons of fuel in 2000 just to carry the additional weight of passengers, the federal agency estimated in a recent issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine

"The obesity epidemic has unexpected consequences beyond direct health effects," said Deron Burton, MD, of the CDC. "Our goal was to highlight one area that had not been looked at before."

The extra fuel burned also had an environmental impact, as an estimated 3.8 million extra tons of carbon dioxide were released into the air, according to the study.

The agency said its calculations are rough estimates, issued to highlight previously undocumented consequences of the ongoing obesity epidemic.

The estimates were calculated by determining how much fuel the 10 extra pounds of weight per passenger represented in Department of Transportation airline statistics, Burton said.

Obesity is a life-or-death struggle in the United States, the underlying cause of 400,000 deaths in 2000, a 33% jump from 1990. If current trends persist, it will become the nation's No. 1 cause of preventable death, the CDC said earlier this year.

More than half, 56%, of U.S. adults were overweight or obese in the early 1990s, according to a CDC survey. That rose to 65% in a similar survey done from 1999 to 2002.

Although the Air Transport Association of America has not yet validated the CDC data, spokesman Jack Evans said the health agency's appraisal "does not sound out of the realm of reality."

With most airlines reporting losses blamed partly on record-high fuel costs, everything on an airplane is now a weighty issue. Airlines are doing everything they can to lighten the load on all aircraft, from wide-body jets to turboprops.

Bulky magazines have gone out the door. Metal forks and spoons have been replaced with plastic. Large carry-on luggage is being scrutinized and even heavy materials that used to make up airplane seats are being replaced with plastic and other lightweight materials.

"We're dealing in a world of small numbers, even though it has a very incremental impact" to reduce a 60- to 120-ton aircraft's weight by bumping off a few magazines, Evans said. "When you consider airlines are flying millions of miles, it adds up over time."

Although passenger bulk has been an issue in the past-Dallas-based Southwest Airlines requires large people to buy a second seat for passenger safety and comfort-Evans says it's not likely airlines will scrutinize how much passengers weigh in the future. Instead, they are trying to do a better job of estimating passenger weight when figuring out how much fuel they need for a flight.

Seattle-based Alaska Airlines now calculates the weight of children on flights, instead of using adult-weight formulas for all passengers, Evans said.

"Just like we don't control the costs of our fuel, we don't control the weights of our passengers," he said. "Passengers gain weight, but airlines are the ones that go on a diet. It's part of the conundrum we face right now."

huaiwei

January 20th, 2005, 07:06 AM

So there is no explanation, which means there is no substance.
If I remember you saying this line before:

"just because you cant see, dosent mean its not there."

Used to great effect over here now, dont you think? :lol:

hkskyline

January 20th, 2005, 07:08 AM

Well the rest of the world cannot see how an unrelated joke made its way in here, but as long as you can see it then it'll be all right? :)

huaiwei

January 20th, 2005, 07:08 AM

Well the rest of the world cannot see how an unrelated joke made its way in here, but as long as you can see it then it'll be all right? :)
Haha...do you represent the world? :lol:

hkskyline

January 20th, 2005, 07:29 AM

Logic is consistent throughout the world.

Airbus shows European co-operation can work but demand is the problem
HAMISH MCRAE
20 January 2005
The Independent

THE AIRBUS super-jumbo is a great technical triumph - and an even greater commercial gamble, for we simply cannot know what the final market size will be. From a business perspective, it could hardly turn out to be a catastrophe like Concorde, but then it will not be a sure-fire success like the Boeing 737 either.

But there is another story here, a wider one about European competitiveness. Airbus is a European conglomeration. Not only is the plane built all over Europe but the company is multinational too. Unusually for such ventures, it has been commercially successful up to now, displacing Boeing as the world"s largest commercial aircraft manufacturer. As such it has done a world of good for the airline industry. Even airlines that end up buying Boeings are delighted to have Airbus around, for it enables them to negotiate down the price of the planes.

So it has demonstrated that for all the guff about Europe"s lack of competitiveness, the way manufacturing will leave for low-wage parts of the world, and the economic challenge from China and India, the fact remains that there are only two places in the world that can build large commercial jets. One is the US, the other is Europe.

This raises two further issues. One is whether the European economy is structured appropriately to take advantage of its undoubted excellence in high-end manufacturing. The other is whether being good in this segment of the world economy is enough.

The President of France, Jacques Chirac, raised the first of these at the launch of the A380, suggesting that Airbus could be a model for further European commercial integration. It is an important idea as well as being a politically seductive one, and needs to be taken seriously. There are other areas - stock exchanges, perhaps? - where it would be natural for there to be greater cross-border co-operation. But in practice most of the key commercial links forged over the past decade have been between European corporations and US ones, rather than happening within Europe. The oil and pharmaceutical industries are good examples of this, while the extremely successful venture between Renault and Nissan shows that a Japanese partner can bring strength to a union. Would Renault have done better had it used its financial resources and management to rescue Fiat instead of Nissan? Surely not; better to leave that one for a more gullible General Motors.

To take two other examples, when BMW looked to expand it turned to Britain and Rover. While it has extracted itself in OK shape, still owning the Mini, the experience was not a happy one. When Daimler-Benz looked to expand, it turned to Chrysler in the US, and while that too has been a bumpy experience, on a medium-term view it looks more likely to be successful.

So the experience of integration within Europe is not particularly happy; it may be that Airbus is an exception, rather than a model. But President Chirac is right to highlight its success.

The "is it enough?" question is easier, for the answer must surely be a clear "no". It comes hard to acknowledge but manufacturing in general and high-end manufacturing in particular is not a big business. For all its glamour and for its impact on the way we live now, the commercial aircraft business is quite modest in size.

Take, for simplicity, the company making the engines for half the A380s, Rolls-Royce - though as an aside, it was notable that Air France chose the alternative American engines, made jointly by GE and Pratt & Whitney. The engines account for between one-third and half the value of a civil aircraft.

Now look at the size of the company. It is doing well and its value has come up to £4.4bn, which is comparable to the £4.0bn of Associated Newspapers, the Daily Mail group. There are only three companies in the world making large jet engines - actually more like two and a half as Pratt & Whitney has been losing market share - but there are an awful lot of newspaper groups. Top-end manufacturing is important but it is not nearly enough to sustain an economy.

This paradox is evident if you look more generally at the European economy. There are many areas where European companies, particularly German ones, do lead the world. But they do not between them generate enough jobs to employ Europe"s workers, unemployment remains high and consumption growth low.

The first graph shows the latest consensus estimates for growth in the G7 economies that came out yesterday from Reuters. Surprise, surprise, the two countries that exemplify manufacturing excellence, Germany and Japan, are bottom of the growth league. The next graph shows how dependent the eurozone economy is on exports. The Purchasing Managers" Index reports give an early feel for the overall level of activity in manufacturing. As you can see, there is a very close relationship between that and the index for export demand. When exports do well, European manufacturing does well, and vice-versa.

Some countries, however, are more dependent than others. The next graph shows the divergence of retail sales in Germany and France, the former falling and the latter rising. The French economy is not doing too badly because there is some domestic growth, whereas Germany, for all its brilliance as an exporter, is stymied because its people won"t hit the shops. Yes, Germany is creating some net new jobs (final graph), but not enough to stop unemployment rising to the 4.5 million mark.

It is worse that that. Goldman Sachs, which pulled together these graphs on Europe, points out that many of the new jobs are low-wage ones, offered under various job-creating schemes. The high-wage ones in manufacturing are increasingly either being exported to Eastern Europe, or the terms changed so that workers work longer hours.

AMN-AMRO has looked at what is happening to wage negotiations in German industry. Some 55 per cent of industrial companies have increasing hours as part of their wage strategy, and 33 per cent are in negotiation for longer hours without extra pay.

On the one hand this is good news for German companies, for they are clawing back their competitiveness against other developed countries. But having to work longer for the same amount of money is not conducive to creating a more ebullient workforce, eager to spend.

And that surely is the central issue. Europe"s problem is not that it lacks centres of excellence, for it has huge competence in many areas, including top-end manufacturing. It has done very well - the UK has done very well - in maintaining as much manufacturing as it has. There may well be scope for further pan-European co-operation, and though that works only if it is commercially led, at least governments have a role in removing road-blocks.

No, the key point is that Europe"s problem is a lack of demand. The supply side is gradually being reformed: German companies, which have the highest labour costs, are attacking those more successfully than has been appreciated. But it is very hard for an economy to grow swiftly if consumers are too frightened to spend more in the shops. And if you want to be unkind to our European political leaders, you would say they should not be claiming for themselves some element of the success of Airbus, which really has very little to do with politics. Instead they should be paying more attention to the things that are within their control, such as the efficiency of the public sector and quality of the regulatory and tax regimes of Europe.

kony

January 20th, 2005, 07:38 AM

huaiwei

January 20th, 2005, 07:46 AM

Logic is consistent throughout the world.
Is it? Anyway, you dont define the world's logic.

hkskyline

January 20th, 2005, 07:46 AM

Here are some unveiling photos :

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20050118/capt.sge.cox88.180105164428.photo02.photo.default-384x257.jpg

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050118/i/r3022230305.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050118/capt.tou13701181540.france_airbus_tou137.jpg

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050118/i/r4094263694.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050118/capt.tou13301181505.france_airbus_tou133.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050118/capt.tou13601181513.france_airbus_tou136.jpg

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050118/i/r3667418640.jpg

huaiwei

January 20th, 2005, 07:48 AM

Hey both of u don't have u the feeling that you hijacked the thread with your mud'in the face !!

i don't know what's the rivalry between you and what is the reason behind it, but we don't have to be spectators of your hatry or whatever when we come here to hear about airbus !!
Whoops!

Anyway, I am kinda wondering why he has been tacitly critical of the A380 plane all these while. Maybe things will change when CX finally orders one of them, but till then, we in Singapore are holding our breaths in anticipation of the first A380 to arrive at Changi Airport a year later! :banana: ;)

huaiwei

January 20th, 2005, 07:50 AM

Kangaroo route first to host A380
January 18, 2005 - 6:16PM

Passengers flying the so-called Kangaroo route between Sydney and London will be the first to experience the new super jumbo A380 jet, Singapore Airlines says.

The aircraft will be operated by Singapore Airlines from mid next year when the airline becomes the first carrier in the world to fly the double decker long haul planes.

The Airbus A380 aircraft was being launched in Toulouse, France, in front of world leaders and global aviation executives, including Qantas Airways Ltd chief executive Geoff Dixon.

Singapore Airlines has ordered 10 of the aircraft, which cost about $US260 million each, while Qantas wants 12.

Singapore Airlines confirmed it will first use the aircraft on the Kangaroo route between London, Singapore and Sydney.

It hopes to eventually use the planes on routes from Australia to the US, if talks between the Australian and Singaporean governments next month about opening up Australian skies to the carrier are successfully concluded.

"Singapore Airlines is committed to the Australian market and we are delighted to be the first Airline to fly the A380 here, offering our Australian customers the first opportunity to experience a new era in flying," the airline's south west Pacific communications manager Samantha Stewart said.

The planes, which measure the length of eight public transport buses and have a wingspan of nearly 80 metres, are designed to carry 555 passengers but Singapore Airlines will offer passengers 500 seats in three classes.

Sydney Airport is planning to spend around $100 million upgrading the airport next year to make it A380 ready.

London's Heathrow has already budgeted STG450 million ($A1.11 billion) to prepare the airport for the planes.

The size of the jets requires wider than usual taxiways and double decker loading ramps.

© 2005 AAP

hkskyline

January 20th, 2005, 07:51 AM

hkskyline

January 20th, 2005, 07:52 AM

FedEx to be the first to take delivery of A380-800F freighter
The Edge
Jan 19, 2005

FedEx Express, a subsidiary of FedEx Corp, will be the first to take delivery of the Airbus A380-800F freighter in August 2008 and the first to deploy the aircraft in service for its global customers, the company said yesterday.

FedEx Corp chairman Frederick W Smith said delivery of the first A380 cargo plane would be followed by two more by the end of 2008, three more in 2009, three in 2010 and the 10th in 2011.

FedEx also holds options for 10 additional aircraft. “The A380 will play a significant role in our ongoing efforts to expand our networks and broaden our range of services,” said Smith in a statement. He is also president and chief executive officer.

“With its ability to provide greater network capacity with lower direct operating costs, the A380 will facilitate even more global trade, and the ultimate beneficiaries will be our customers, and future customers, around the world,” he said.

During the first year of operation, the three FedEx planes will operate on long-range routes between FedEx hubs in Asia and North America. Additional routes from Europe to North America and Europe to Asia will be added as more aircraft are added to the fleet.

The A380 is capable of flying more than 150 tonnes within 1,100 cubic metres, and provides significantly lower direct operating costs than today’s largest flying aircraft.

The A380 freighter, which has a range of about 6,000 nautical miles (11,100km), will have tonne/mile costs that are expected to be about 15% to 20% lower than FedEx's largest aircraft McDonnell Douglas MD-11.

huaiwei

January 20th, 2005, 09:23 AM

I don't think the articles I've posted are overbiased on the critical side. However, prudent people don't jump in quickly at the latest innovation without thought and analysis. After all, playing the waiting game can be fruitful in a negotiation. That's why Singapore lost a big breath when Cathay Pacific won rights to fly from New York to London.
Oh is it? ;) I leave that up to personal perceptions.

Meanwhile, Singapore Airlines, world reknown for being one of the most demanding customers who conducts extensive evaluation before commiting to aircraft purchases, gets to enjoy global publicity when it commences the world's first scheduled flight via the A380. That SIA's purchase was the key turning point behind Airbus's A380 program leading to its fruitation (it got the priviledge of flying the first plane despiten not being the first customer. for a reason of coz), and that purchase was one of the most important confidence-building events for the program. Afteral, almost every other major airline in the world looks at SIA's purchasing choices with keen ernesty, and it does influence their purchasing choices.

Indeed, that is just a brief discussion on the relevance of Singapore Airlines to the development of this new bird, something hardly worthy to be dismissed as being a result of a decision made without "thought and analysis."

And talking about that, how does playing the waiting game have any relation to the awarding of air traffic rights? CX being granted limited flights out of Heathrow seems more in relation to their requests for more rights out of HK to the Australian market, and in addition, CX isnt really expected to be a major threat to existing domination of that flight sector by existing carriers anyway. Compare that, to the "rioting" going on everytime SIA asks for similar rights, be it out of Heathrow, or out of Sydney to the US. They dont really care how long SIA has been demanding for those rights, do they? ;)