Which is the overall top University in the midwest, based on academics?

Northwestern University in Evanston, IL (Chicago) and Washington University in St. Louis are tied for the #11 spot, which makes them the best in the Midwest.

US News & World Report - Best Colleges, 2005 (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php)

^despite the fact that obvious rankings are already in place, I started this thread because we all know that rankings vary and are often subjective, even if they do incorporate data :)

So what is your guys' opinion?

BTW, only schools that have full graduate programs are included (ie medical schools, law schools, etc), hence Notre Dame is not on the list

According to the USNews & World Report 2005, the best universities in the Midwest are as follows:

11. (TIE) Northwestern University - Chicago
Washington University - Saint Louis

14. University of Chicago

18. University of Notre Dame - South Bend, IN

22. University of Michigan - Ann Arbor

32. University of Wisconsin - Madison

35. Case Western Reserve University - Cleveland

37. University of Illinois - Champaign/Urbana

62. (TIE) Miami University - Oxford, OH
Columbus State University - Columbus, OH
Purdue University - Lafayette, IN

66. University of Minnesota - Twin Cities

71. (TIE) Indiana University - Bloomington
Michigan State University - East Lansing

81. Saint Louis University

86. University of Missouri - Columbia

90. (TIE) Marquette University - Milwaukee
University of Kansas - Lawrence

98. (TIE) University of Dayton - Dayton, OH
University of Nebraska - Lincoln

106. (TIE) Illinois Institute of Technology - Chicago
University of Missouri - Rolla

111. Loyola University - Chicago

120. Michigan Technological University

USNews & World Report Best Colleges 2005 (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php)

Personally, I hate the US News and World Report's lists. I am a bit tired of east coasters (and their magazines/ control of media, etc) telling us who is the best and who isn't. They always rank their own schools in the very top rung, typical for a region that is trying to maintain its prominence.

University of Chicago has the greatest number of Nobel Prize laureates in its faculty than any other US school (one just nominated this year), and they're ranked number 14? Whatever..

I think the USNews/WR rankings are skewed for a couple of reasons. Except for Univ of Notre Dame, all of the universities listed have strong engineering and medical schools, which the report biases because of the large number of federal money that flows into those programs. Universities like Indiana Univ, whose medical school is technically at IUPUI and which does not have an engineering school, lose out on those rankings. It's probably better to look at individual programs, rather than at the university as a whole.

At IU for example (the school I know best)--the music school, SPEA, and Central Asian (incl Tibetan) studies are consistently ranked at the top nationally. I might also suggest that the IU campus is the most beautiful of all listed, even if the town of Bloomington leaves something to be desired compared to STL, Chicago and Minneapolis. There are three Tibetan restaurants here, though...not bad for a small town in the cricks and hollers of Southern Indiana.

In this case, my vote would go to UW-Madison, because I think they have the best all around program, and they aren't sports crazy like OSU and UMich.

St. Norberts near Green Bay, its the Harvard of the midwest. It's also a private school, I don't know if you were including private schools.

I think trying to rank universities as "greater" or "greatest" is as silly and pointless and trying to rank cities the same way. To me UW Madison is the greatest because of it's sheer size and scope, and it's excellence in a diverse array of fields. Others would say St. Norbert's outside of Green Bay is the greatest because it's you get indivudual attention from world class instructors. Others would say U of Chicago because of its concentration of some of the best minds in Academia. Others would say Marquette because of its emphasis on religious service. Who's right? I dunno.

Of course, it's UW Stout, because that's where I went. :cheers:

2nd place goes to U of Minnesota, because that's my hometown, and that's where I live. :)

Those US News and World Report statistics are the worst (not to keep belaboring the point). Why would I trust a magazine that has a "Mysteries of the Bible" special every 6 friggin months. Even US News' special on "World History" was essentially an account of European history. Euro-centric, Judeo-Christian-centric garbage.

Screw US News and World Report!

You gotta be kidding me if you think St. Norbert's is the Harvard of the Midwest. My hometown is De Pere, so I think I know what I'm talking about. It's a nice school, but confusing it with a world-class institution like Harvard is absurd.

I'm a U of Minnesota guy, although I gave my vote to the U of Chicago based on overall quality. For what I studied, though, (Political Science and History), I wouldn't trade it with any other school on the list. I had some truly excellent teachers at the U of M, (though not necessarily the best researchers), and that's something that is usually completely and totally overlooked by U.S. News' Rankings. Not that the UofM doesn't have it's problems, though: They turned Coffman Union into a glorified shopping mall, and there's a choking bureaucracy entrenching itself in the school, making it impossible for student groups to get anything done without jumping through about a thousand hoops.

I'm not saying it's a world class institution, I'm saying to the Midwest its our Harvard. I did not make up that term, I've heard it said, and I agree with it.

Well, to say that St. Norberts isn't a world-class institution like Harvard, yet is the "Harvard of the Midwest", is to imply that the Midwest doesn't have any world-class institutions. Which from the looks of schools like the U of Chicago, NW, etc, etc, simply isn't true. I don't see what resemblence to Harvard St. Norbert's has, when there are probably literally a dozen or two other schools in the Midwest that offer similar or better educational experiences.

The term isn't implying anything like that. Both universities are private institutions. St. Norberts has similarities to Ivy league schools like Harvard, mostly seen in the setting and teaching style of the institutions. Don't analyze this to deeply, it's a general similarity kind of thing.

I go to UW-Milwaukee so I'm not pushing this St. Norberts thing or anything, I'm simply stating a term I've heard that I agree with. It is not something to be looked very deeply into.

I do believe that St. Norberts is a very strong university. The intimate teaching style, which is hard to find in larger universities, makes for beneficial comprehension of information and creates a dominant environment for intellectual discussions, which again are very beneficial to an education.

I'm not going to discuss it further, because this thread is a matter of opinion anyways.

Well, to say that St. Norberts isn't a world-class institution like Harvard, yet is the "Harvard of the Midwest", is to imply that the Midwest doesn't have any world-class institutions. .

I agree--I think we should call Harvard the "St. Norbert's of the East."

"Where did you like go to school?"
"Yeah, I mean, I done went to Harvard."
"Harvard? Never heard of it."
"Huh? It's near Boston."
"Oh, well, I'm from Chicago. I don't know the East so well. Is it a good school?"
"Well, I dunno if this is true, but I've done heard it called the St. Norbert's of East."
"That's impossible--nothing can compare to St. Norbert's."

And while we are at it:
New York is the "Chicago of the Mid-Atlantic States"
Boston is the "Cincinnati of New England"
Baltimore is the "Milwaukee of the Chesapeake"
The Hudson is the "Mississippi of the Northeast"
ad nauseum...

Signed,
Raddy, the Midwest Nationalist

I said something similiar on the college boutique thread, but I'll say it here, too:

among public insititutions in the nation, the University of Michigan holds a special spot. Although hardly the oldest of the state universities (UVA and UNC are older), U-M set the example for the concept of the large, comprehensive state university. The vast majority of state u's in the midwest, south, and west used U-M as its model.

Today the school remains a powerhouse on every level. Michigan is one of the few institutions that combines stellar academics with stellar athletics. With its tradition, it creates an aura incompaible in the midwest.

I also find that Michigan, as a state, is unusual for having too such huge and excellent public universities as U-M and MSU. Few states can claim two state institutions of this quality (Indiana does pretty well in this category, too, with IU and Purdue)

If the poll was for worst, crappiest, stupidest, run-down, ugliest university in the midwest, I would vote for Wayne State.

interesting discussion here on the relative ratings of midwestern universities.

here's something that i think any of us midwesterners can argue with: when it comes to academics in the major (BCS) conferences, the Big Ten comes on top by any measure.

When it comes to top-to-bottom, the conference is in a class by itself that the other conferences can't touch: there is NO (nada, zero, zip) institution in the conference that is not an academic powerhouse. All are classified as major research institutions. No school in the conference is ranked below USN&WR's second tier (and, yes, I know this is not a bible).

On the top? The B10 comes out as good as any. In comparing the top notch academic institutions (alphabetically), the results (IMHO) come out this way:

BIG TEN: ILLINOIS, MICHIGAN, NORTHWESTERN, WISCONSIN
Pac Ten: Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC
ACC: Duke, UNC, UVA, Wake
Big 12: Texas
SEC: Vanderbilt
Big East: ????????????

If the poll was for worst, crappiest, stupidest, run-down, ugliest university in the midwest, I would vote for Wayne State.

Olaf, it always seemed to me that in official policy, the state of Michigan always tries to push Wayne as the state's third flagship. I believe they are basing it on research and grad schools, but the state puts it in a level above EMU, CMU, WMU, MTU, etc.

First of all, is my observation correct? And second, does anybody buy the incredibly ludicrous concept that Wayne belongs in any type of grouping with U-M and MSU

????????????????????????????????????

Probably Northwestern, University of Chicago and the University of Michigan. Oberlin and Carleton are not bad liberal arts schools either.

[QUOTE=Oberlin and Carleton are not bad liberal arts schools either.[/QUOTE]
I agree entirely that these are both awesome schools (I'm an Obie myself), but they are undergrad Liberal Arts colleges, not universities as per the poll.

Really, this depends on the discipline; UC is tops in the MidWest for Law, but IU is better for Library Sciences, etc.

Niether, University of Mizzou.

All of you are wrong!! North Park U is the best!!

Based on academics I'd probably go with Northwestern or UChicago. However, keep in mind those are not state schools and the tuition is obscene both for in state and out of state residents.

As far as public state institutions go. I think that UMich and UMinn are probably pretty good contenders. However cjfjapan has an excellent point in that the schools within the universities are often worlds unto themselves. I'm an IU grad and was well aware of the Central Asian research and studies, and the collections the IU library held (I had to shelve them, and shelving Tibetan long books and get rather tedious) so I sometimes question the merit of ranking large public research institutions as a whole.

North Park??? Sure, If I want to learn Swedish :runaway:

Top University Endowments, 2004 (Midwest universities in bold):

Harvard University $22.6 billion
Yale University $12.7 billion
Stanford University $10.0 billion
Princeton University $9.9 billion
University of Texas $9.7 billion
Massachusetts Institute of Technology $6.0 billion
University of California $4.8 billion
Emory University $4.5 billion
Columbia University $4.5 billion
Texas A&M University $4.3 billion
University of Michigan $4.2 billion
Washington University in St. Louis $4.1 billion
University of Pennsylvania $4.0 billion
Northwestern University $3.7 billion
Duke University $3.3 billion
Rice University $3.3 billion
University of Chicago $3.6 billion
Cornell University $3.3 billion
University of Notre Dame $3.1 billion
Dartmouth College $2.5 billion
Vanderbilt University $2.3 billion
University of Virginia $2.0 billion
Johns Hopkins University $1.9 billion
Brown University $1.7 billion

Bloomberg.com Top University Endowments, 2004 (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aq4uwJJZxkBk&refer=us)

Washington University in Saint Louis is the most underrated university in the United States in my opinion. It is a first-class institution in every aspect.

Public: Michigan
Private: Chicago
Parochial: Notre Dame

Marquette University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Not even mentioned on the list.

UNIVERSITY OF TOLEDO!!!! GO ROCKETS!!!!!

:righton:

The University of Florida does a yearly study of the top research universities in the country. Here is that list with midwestern in bold.
1. Harvard
2. MIT
3. Stanford
4. Columbia
5. Cornell
6. Johns Hopkins
7. U of Pennslyvania
8. Duke
9. UC Berkeley
10. Michigan
11. Yale
12. USC
13. Washington
14. Wisconsin
15. Washington University
16. UCLA
17. Minnesota
19. Texas
20. Princeton
21. UC San Diego
22. UC San Francisco
23. U of Chicago
24. Penn State
25. Illinois
26. Northwestern
27. Ohio State
http://thecenter.ufl.edu/research2004.pdf

All of you are wrong!! North Park U is the best!!

It definitely wins the battle of Foster Ave vs. NEIU!

Part of the problem with the US News, Princeton Review, etc rankings is that they are biased to the Northeast view of what a university should be. In particular, they prefer schools that have more students from higher income groups. Dont get me wrong, there are a ton of bright kids who go to the Ivys, but if you are really wealthy, its much easier to buy your kids way (through donations, legacy programs,..) into an Ivy type school then a large public school.

I always really liked the Michigan States, Ohio States, and U of Minnesotas for having huge enrollments offering quality education to a much broader group. In the eyes of the US news, these schools dont rank as high though because they arent as "elitist" as many of their private counterparts. U of Michigan, which is considered to be one of the "best publics" by those rankings, could best improve their image by denying admission to a quarter of their incoming students. I just dont think that is right.

In many ways, kids from poor and urban areas dont have the resources to compete their wealthier counterparts to get into the elitist schools. The large state schools give them an opportunity to improve their skills and grow to their potential. There, they earn it and it isnt bought for them. But of course the rankings wont reflect that, afterall they are biasly put out by alumnus and faculty of the Ivys anyway..

University of Wisconsin Whitewater people... really there is no comparison. It is clearly the best school not only in the midwest, but arguable the best in the nation. I don't know why we were ever even having this discussion since it is so obvious...

No doubt, the top 5 go as... (spaces indicate size of gap)

1 - Univ. of Chicago



2 - Northwestern

3 - U. of Michigan

4 - U. of Wisconsin


5 - U. of Illinois

This is obviously undergrad. When you get into grad school, each school excels at it's own things it's too hard to rank them. Behind the big two (U of C and NW), Ohio State has the best business school, Wisconsin the best education, Purdue the best engineering, etc.

No doubt, the top 5 go as... (spaces indicate size of gap)

1 - Univ. of Chicago



2 - Northwestern

3 - U. of Michigan

4 - U. of Wisconsin


5 - U. of Illinois

This is obviously undergrad. When you get into grad school, each school excels at it's own things it's too hard to rank them. Behind the big two (U of C and NW), Ohio State has the best business school, Wisconsin the best education, Purdue the best engineering, etc.

Badger, for all the attention that Michigan gets among the B10 publics, many people don't realize what academic powerhouses UW and U of I are.These two have always been among the best public universities in the nation.

Michigan is hardly a public school. Sure it gets state money, but its entrance requirements are much more like a private. Right now, Minnesota is undergoing a transformation that many in the state oppose that will make it a more elite U of Michigan type public university. I agree with what Kavoc said above about public schools and how they should accept in broader ranges of people.

By the way, though, Minnesota has one of the top engenering schools in the country (Chemical Eng. is #1 I believe), the business school is also one of the most sought after schools in the nation, not just the midwest, and it is one of two schools in the country that have a full medical school, law school, and ag program all at the same campus.

Michigan is hardly a public school. Sure it gets state money, but its entrance requirements are much more like a private. Right now, Minnesota is undergoing a transformation that many in the state oppose that will make it a more elite U of Michigan type public university. I agree with what Kavoc said above about public schools and how they should accept in broader ranges of people.

By the way, though, Minnesota has one of the top engenering schools in the country (Chemical Eng. is #1 I believe), the business school is also one of the most sought after schools in the nation, not just the midwest, and it is one of two schools in the country that have a full medical school, law school, and ag program all at the same campus.

I'm not sure your point here, ap_. I don't think there is any question that U-M has long operated on high entrance requirements and inordinately high out-of-state tuition; there is no question that U-M has built an impressive endowment that more that supplements what $ comes from the MI legislature. Other powerhouse public universities, ones with academic reputations like the Ivies (i.e. Cal and UVa) have operated similiar to U-M.

But they are still public instiutions with the state responsible for the trustees that run them as well as funding a sizeable percentage of the university's cash flow.

I would agree with you (or what I preceive you are saying here) on one point: we are getting to the point where flagship state universities are operating more and more like private universities, making decisions independent of the states to which they are a part.

In many respects, such a trend makes sense. In an era where money is tight, the amount of financial control that states exercise over their flagship public universities becomes less and less. And most states realize that the service that flagship institutions provide for their state is great enough to allow more freedom at the upper echolon insitiutions than on the lower tier ones.

So, IMHO, Michigan is still as "public" as the other state universities of its class, but that entire group of flagships, coast to coast, are evolving in more and more to look like private universities.

Washington university and northwestern are obviously the best midwestern schools based on academincs, there really is no doubt about that. If you factor in other, subjective factors such as sports and size and school spirit, the top could change, but that is due to subjective factors. in terms of acadmics, there really is no doubt that the best two are Washu and northwestern.

Minnesota's business school isn't ranked that highly. It's ranked behind three other Big 10 schools I believe, and lands in the 20's- which is good but not great. I'm not Minnesota bashing, either... Minnesota is a very good college, though, no doubt. It's not saught after like Texas, Chapel Hill, Berk, Michigan, UCLA, Ohio State, Purdue (wtf), or U of Washington- which are the Publics that rank above it.

Minnesota will never become elite like Michigan though. Michigan- publicwise- is it's it's own league in the Big 10 barring NW.

For engineering in general, Minnesota is ranked below Wisconsin, Purdue, Austin, Michigan, Penn State, UCSB, U of Washington, U of Florida, Ohio State, U of Illinois, Berkeley, UC San Diego, Texas, U of Maryland, and maybe another Public.

It also does not rank (at least in the top 3) for Chemical Engineering as someone here said...

U of Minnesota is "getting better" (although their athletic program is probably the least exciting in the Big 10), but no other Big 10 Public School will reach the "jene sai quois" or whatever of Michigan.

Minnesota, in the long term, give it 15-30 years, does have a chance of getting to the 3rd or 4th spot in Publics in the Big 10.

No doubt, the top 5 go as... (spaces indicate size of gap)

1 - Univ. of Chicago



2 - Northwestern

3 - U. of Michigan

4 - U. of Wisconsin


5 - U. of Illinois

This is obviously undergrad. When you get into grad school, each school excels at it's own things it's too hard to rank them. Behind the big two (U of C and NW), Ohio State has the best business school, Wisconsin the best education, Purdue the best engineering, etc.
According to what source? Yourself?

Bringing up athletics, Minnesota is a great Midwestern school.

I don't have the time to look up all the specifics, but here is what I can pull from my head.

Football: Ranked team last few years went to and won I believe 4 or five straight bowl games, raising money to build new on-campus stadium
Men's Basketball: Rebuilding from scandal that hurt recruiting, ranked and made it to the tourney last year
Women's Basketball: Great! Final Four two years ago Sweat Sixteen last year. Two players chosen top five in last two WNBA 1st rounds, number 1 this draft
Men's Hockey: Two championships in past four years
Women's Hockey: At least one or two championships, always ranked in top three
Volleyball: Good, one of only few midwestern powerhouse volleyball teams
Also won or came close to national or big ten championships recently in golf, gymnastics, wrestling (always competative). I'm sure there is more, but that's what I have for now.

It is definatly not the best, especially in the money sports men basketball and football. But it is far far far from the worst, especially looking at the totality of the athletic program.

Northwestern University and the University of Michigan are the top 2.

By the way, the University of Iowa is a good school. It should have been polled.

Michigan State is a very good school also. Much better than some of the colleges being polled.

University Iowa and Michigan State are both ranked higher undergrad than many of those schools.

Univ of Chicago is BY FAR the best college, followed by NW and U of Michigan, then Wisconsin and Illinois.

Northwestern University and the University of Michigan are the top 2.

By the way, the University of Iowa is a good school. It should have been polled.

Michigan State is a very good school also. Much better than some of the colleges being polled.

Michigan State and IU are tied for dead last in the big ten for undergrad.

Iowa is 60, Minnesota is 68, and Michigan State is last at 72.

University Iowa and Michigan State are both ranked higher undergrad than many of those schools.

Univ of Chicago is BY FAR the best college, followed by NW and U of Michigan, then Wisconsin and Illinois.

What makes you such an authority on this? Wisconsin and Illinois are definitely highly-ranked state schools, but Washington University is ranked much higher in terms of academics. That's not even arguable. Debate the rankings all you want, but there's no way you know every school intimately enough to make such a certain conclusion, when numerous ranking lists show otherwise.

University of Chicago

Obviously the private schools are going to have an edge because of the money you fork over for the education. They can afford distinguished professors, small class sizes, academic resources etc.

I'm beginning to think that the US news rankings are based on overall competitiveness instead of academic quality when it comes to public schools. Wisc, Mich, and Ill have a greater pool of students applying therefore they are more competitive than Iowa, Minnesota, Ohio State, and Mich St. It doesn't mean theyre better!

Minnesota probably has a bad ranking because they include the General College which admits underpriveleged students who don't have the highest marks but show potential which is a good thing. It gives them a chance to succeed and become useful to society instead of a burden. If you compare Minnesota's business school, engineering program, and biological sciences to Wisc and Ill, i'm sure UMN is on par with them if not better. Ironically, I got accepted to Madison's engineering school but not Minnesota's two years ago and i'm a Minnesota resident!

I know Michigan is strong academically in all fields, which is why it should be #1 among public schools. As for the other schools, it really depends on the field of study. IMO those rankings give a false sense of accuracy when it comes to academic quality.

Illinois has an insane engineering school, top few in the country. I got accepted into the Minnesota and Iowa undergrad out of HS with a 3.05 GPA and horrible 24 ACT. No Public University in the Midwest has a great Business School besides Michigan. All are ranked below 20, and Madison probably has roughly the worst, although it's still okay. All are in the "middle" territory though.

It definitely depends on field of study. You may apply for the Education School at Madison and get rejected, apply for the Education School in Minneapolis and get accepted. Likewise, you may apply to the business school at Madison and get accepted, but not at Minnesota.

i still say top two are WashU and Northwestern, and U chicago is number 3

From just reputation, I would say that Michigan and Northwestern are considered to be the two top schools. However Washington and Chicago are "ranked" higher then Michigan. Reason being, at least according to the so called rankings, Michigan lets too many kids in.

Michigan is just like North Carolina, Cal Berkley, and Virginia in that the reason they arent ranked higher compared to the private schools is because their admission scores dont compare as well. They have great reputations, probably even better than some of their higher ranked private counterparts. But simply put, if Michigan said, "instead of admitting the top 10,000 applicants, we will only take the top 2,500 applicants," their admission scores would obviously rise significantly, and their enrollment numbers would be more comparable to a private school.

However, this raises the debate of what a university mission is. Is it to provide education to the students of the state, or to educate the very few with high credentials? A school like Ohio State or Michigan State (40,000-50,000+ students) basically lets anyone in with a good academic background or with signs of potential. A Northwestern (around 10,000 students) on the other hand only lets in a very few students with extremely high academic marks. Michigan is somewhere in the middle.

Does that mean a student attending an OSU or MSU gets a much lesser education than one at a Northwestern? Probably not, because a college education is what the student makes of it. So of course the MSUs and the OSUs, and even the UofMs wont reflect as well in the "rankings", simply because the mission of their schools is a kind of "slap in the face" to the elitist Northeastern view upon which the "lists" are based.

That is very true. It's not that Wisconsin or Minnesota are worse schools than U of Virginia, for instance, necessarily, but they serve a different purpose (even if they have to). While you'll see Chapel Hill and other EC schools only let 30% in, you'll see schools like Madison and Minnesota let in 60%, which is giving a lot more people a chance at a great education.

I do know that Madison and Illinois kids actually outtested U of Virginia kids, or something- outperformed in some way.

U. of Chicago is the best school in the midwest though. It's generally considered to be of Ivy League quality, up there with Princeton, etc.

case western rules!

they invented the internet! (no seriously, this isn't an al gore move. They developed the first ever remote access (i.e. modem) computer in the world)

okay, done with homerism.

the reason Washu doesnt have that reputation yet is because its "rise to the top" has happened in the last 10 years. it takes time to build that reputaion.

How about some of the Midwestern smaller state schools?

I graduated from Winona State (MN) and when I first went there, academics weren't a big push. It's changed quite a bit since then, with the whole laptop program and all.

Being from La Crosse (8,500), I know UW-L ranked 19th out of 100 on the Kiplingers list (2004?) nationally (Madison #13). I know they ranked #3 or #4 last year behind Truman State and Northern Iowa for Midwestern schools in the U.S. News and World Report rankings for schools offering bachelor and master's programs. I believe they were #3 this year. They have a strong accounting program, as UW-L’s accountancy graduates rank first nationally on the CPA exam among all universities.

There's a sort of "joke" here at UW-Madison about Minnesota. It goes:

What do Wisconsin students and Minnesota students have in common?

.
.
.
.

They both got into Minnesota.

Minnesota actually is getting VERY competitive. 5 years ago when I was applying to colleges I was a shoe-in at the U of M. My grades were less than impressive too. By today's standards I would have NO chance of getting into the U of M. I know kids that applied this year with GPA's of 3.6-3.8 that recieved decent ACT scores and were rejected from every U of M college. I think part of the reason is because the reciprocity with Wisconsin was revoked. Minnesota also has plans to make the school more competitve by decreasing enrollment. 5 years from now I expect the U of Minnesota's reputation to be on par with that of Michigan.

^ Its true that U of M is very competitive, here (http://admissions.tc.umn.edu/academics/profile.html) is the high school profile of last year's admitted freshmen. As a reference, a 3.5 GPA was about at the 75th percentile at my high school. Keep in mind that General College and College of Natural Resources has been or is going to be shut down for next year. The president of the University is trying to make Minnesota one of the top 3 research universities in the world by shutting down those colleges.

Minnesota is ranked something like 71st now, while Michigan is like 15th. 5 years from now it won't be like Michigan. It will probably never be like Michigan. That's good to see that they are trying to get a better reputation though. It wont be a "Top 3 research university in THE WORLD," though. "The world" is ridiculous... US is very feasible as Minnesota is already a huge research institution here.

Still, the ACT scores, outside of Carlson, are all very unimpressive. I was a shoe in at Minnesota too. I had a 3.7 HS GPA and a 28 on my ACT though. Still, my friend who got like a 3.0 and a 24 got in, and that was 2 years ago.

I think in 5 years Minnesota could very well be more like Wisconsin or Illinois. A great reputation, but still not touching Michigan.

However, right now Minnesota is ranked 10th in the Big 10... while Wisconsin is ranked 3rd and Illinois 4th, so I'm not sure about that either.

Also, since when did Minnesota cut off it's reciprocity with Wisconsin?

I got accepted into the Minnesota and Iowa undergrad out of HS with a 3.05 GPA and horrible 24 ACT.

Minnesota is ranked something like 71st now, while Michigan is like 15th. 5 years from now it won't be like Michigan. It will probably never be like Michigan. That's good to see that they are trying to get a better reputation though. It wont be a "Top 3 research university in THE WORLD," though. "The world" is ridiculous... US is very feasible as Minnesota is already a huge research institution here.

Still, the ACT scores, outside of Carlson, are all very unimpressive. I was a shoe in at Minnesota too. I had a 3.7 HS GPA and a 28 on my ACT though. Still, my friend who got like a 3.0 and a 24 got in, and that was 2 years ago.

I think in 5 years Minnesota could very well be more like Wisconsin or Illinois. A great reputation, but still not touching Michigan.

However, right now Minnesota is ranked 10th in the Big 10... while Wisconsin is ranked 3rd and Illinois 4th, so I'm not sure about that either.

You confused me about YOUR ACT scores and GPA. Which one is it? And how are the ACT scores for all the colleges except Carlson unimpressive when the avg ACT score for the Institute of Technology is higher than Carlson and the avg score for College of Biological Sciences is barely less than Carlson?

I don't know where Minnesota now stands in the ranks of world research universities but this (http://www1.umn.edu/systemwide/strategic_positioning/) link states the school's future plans and the reasoning behind it.

I think Minnesota will be just as hard to get into as Wisc or Ill by next year or the year after for residents of their respective states. As I stated before, Minnesota's ranking is bad because of the General College and now with that gone, its ranking can only get better.

That is true. I also think that it will be as good as Wisconsin or Illinois. I actually have always considered it as good, but the rankings disagree for some reason. I don't think Minnesota will ever be a Michigan though.

And it seems as though reciprocity between Wisconsin and Minnesota is still on. Also, I read about the "general college" and it's not getting totally destroyed, just merged with another college.

C'mon though... Top 3 research university in the entire world? For some reason I doubt that to a disgusting degree, at least over only a decade. For Minnesota to suddenly jump up like that and establish itself with Berkeley is impossible. Also, the guy doesn't even mention Chapel Hill among his top Publics.

Oops, on the first quote I meant my friend.

I read some of the plan. He said top public research universities and described how hard it is to compete with schools like harvard, which have almost 22 times the endowements.

It seems feasible since I'd say Minnesota is already a top 5 PUBLIC research in the US.

It also does not rank (at least in the top 3) for Chemical Engineering as someone here said...

according to USnews MN's chemical Eng program (graduate) is indeed the top in the nation (tied with MIT), that is if you agree with USnews...
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/eng/brief/engsp03_brief.php
it's second in undergrad
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/engineering/phd/enps03_brief.php

I probably was looking at the nongraduate one.

Edit: That's really peculiar. I may have just glanced over it or something, but I was not knowingly lying.

Okay, I just don't know how to navigate the US News site correctly.

I got this

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/engineering/nophd/enns03_brief.php

then realized thats only for bachelors/masters schools, which i didnt see last time.

Man no wonder Michigan is rated so well. The prices they charge are ludicious. A year of the MBA program, in state, is 31k- compared to 14k in Minnesota.

For academics AND athletics, all hail Michigan

I choose Wayne State. Simply because I go there but there is alot WSU offers.

The Graduate schools with the pharmacy, medical, law and social work schools are rated some of the best in the state and can compete with MSU or UofM any day. The medical college is expanding again with the Karmanos Cancer institue adding more buildings to a already large Med center area. And in my opnion is alot better the the MSU med school. stat 1 of every 2 state physicans comes from the WSU med school.

The social work school is one of the best in the nation and competes with Michigan very successfully.

School enrollment is around 33,000 making it behind Michigan the 3rd largest school in the state.

The pharmacy school has built a new facility in honor of Eugene Applebaum, creator of CVS/ arbor drugs a WSU alumni student.

The law school is rated one of the best in the state as well again competing with Michigan on a consistant basis.

I refer you to more on WSU through this link

http://www.wayne.edu/keyfacts.html

Chicago, Washington, NW and Michigan.

Wisconsin is 3rd IMO.

But overall, of course Michigan

Chicago's scholars do have the best reputation. Yes, all those Nobels, plus, how many universities have had multiple schools of thought named after themselves? The U of C has produced the Chicago School of economists (Milton Friedman, etc.), as well as the Chicago School of sociology. Lots of great things have occurred there -- the first controlled nuclear chain reaction w/ Enrico Fermi. The Oriental Institue has a world-class collection of Middle-Eastern art and archaeology.

But the main reason why Chicago is the best major university in THE COUNTRY for undergrads is its notorious core curriculum, with its Great Books (primary texts) focus and its broad course (not area distribution) requirements. Even Columbia's (NY) core is softer. Seriously, an intelligent person get through most elite universities without much effort or depth if he chooses the "right" courses. But ALL U of C students come out of there well-rounded. Unless they've changed it in the last couple years, I believe all undergrads take calculus!

Chicago's scholars do have the best reputation. Yes, all those Nobels, plus, how many universities have had multiple schools of thought named after themselves? The U of C has produced the Chicago School of economists (Milton Friedman, etc.), as well as the Chicago School of sociology. Lots of great things have occurred there -- the first controlled nuclear chain reaction w/ Enrico Fermi. The Oriental Institue has a world-class collection of Middle-Eastern art and archaeology.

But the main reason why Chicago is the best major university in THE COUNTRY for undergrads is its notorious core curriculum, with its Great Books (primary texts) focus and its broad course (not area distribution) requirements. Even Columbia's (NY) core is softer. Seriously, an intelligent person get through most elite universities without much effort or depth if he chooses the "right" courses. But ALL U of C students come out of there well-rounded. Unless they've changed it in the last couple years, I believe all undergrads take calculus!

I've always admired and greatly respected the U of C's approach to education: preparing you for life, every bit as much as career.

What states do reciprocity with wisconsin?

I live in wisconsin and i have a 3.65 GPA/24 ACT. I'll be applying to madison/minnesota.

I think madison is a great school only because i hear its praise all the time. =X

What states do reciprocity with wisconsin?

I live in wisconsin and i have a 3.65 GPA/24 ACT. I'll be applying to madison/minnesota.

I think madison is a great school only because i hear its praise all the time. =X

Minnesota definitely. Iowa, too, i believe.

Poor Chicagoland kids. They end up in droves in Madison, Bloomington, and Iowa City....and not a penny break on out-of-state tuititon.

In my opinion, the only school that could hold its own against the Ivy League is the University of Chicago. I think that's the most important test here. The other schools on this list are good MIDWESTERN universities, but you can't really put them up with Harvard and Yale and say they're peer schools. You can do this with UChicago (Nobel Prize winners, first nuclear reaction, highest SAT average, etc.).

I chose UChicago over several Ivies and Northwestern didn't even come close. When I got my acceptance envelope to NU I was just like "oh, that's nice..."

How the hell is U-Minnesota 2nd on that list? The US News 2006 rankings rank it well behind every single University on that list!!!

You might not get into UW-Madison with a 3.65/24, as the averages are a 3.7/29 now. The averages at U-Minn are 3.35/25 though so you have a better shot there...

They also dropped in ranking following the drop of the general college, which is strange... (They are 77th now, Madison also dropped to 34th...)

That is at least according to the Princeton Review book.

I think the USNews/WR rankings are skewed for a couple of reasons. Except for Univ of Notre Dame, all of the universities listed have strong engineering and medical schools, which the report biases because of the large number of federal money that flows into those programs. Universities like Indiana Univ, whose medical school is technically at IUPUI and which does not have an engineering school, lose out on those rankings. It's probably better to look at individual programs, rather than at the university as a whole.

At IU for example (the school I know best)--the music school, SPEA, and Central Asian (incl Tibetan) studies are consistently ranked at the top nationally. I might also suggest that the IU campus is the most beautiful of all listed, even if the town of Bloomington leaves something to be desired compared to STL, Chicago and Minneapolis. There are three Tibetan restaurants here, though...not bad for a small town in the cricks and hollers of Southern Indiana.

In this case, my vote would go to UW-Madison, because I think they have the best all around program, and they aren't sports crazy like OSU and UMich.


No way, Notre Dame is the most beautiful campus in Indiana, and probably the Midwest.

I vote for Notre Dame. Pound for pound and all around, it is better than all those schools for the liberal arts. I would actually make it a tie btwn ND and Wash U in STL. Univ. Chicago is well behind them IMO and only ranks high due to its oustanding faculty and research.

There's no question that it's the University of Chicago, followed closely by Northwestern.

^^Considering Washington University is ranked #1 in the Midwest by US News & World Report, your assertions are completely subjective.

No way, Notre Dame is the most beautiful campus in Indiana, and probably the Midwest.

I vote for Notre Dame. Pound for pound and all around, it is better than all those schools for the liberal arts. I would actually make it a tie btwn ND and Wash U in STL. Univ. Chicago is well behind them IMO and only ranks high due to its oustanding faculty and research.

ND is a very good undergraduate college and highly selective--possibly the most difficult to get into in the midwest. However, the question was "best university" not "best college." And, better than U of C in the liberal arts? You obviously know very little about Chicago. Hell, there's two major social science schools of thought (economics and sociology) named after Chicago. How many schools of thought are named after Notre Dame?

ND is very mediocre as a graduate or research university. It's not a member of the AAU and not likely to be extended membership anytime soon. And, had it joined the Big Ten, it would have been ranked dead last for graduate programs or research. That's why ND's faculty senate voted overwhelmingly (34-2 I think) in favor of joining the Big Ten--to gain access to the CIC and boost their graduate schools and research. Yet, they were overruled by what was best for the football team.

Uhh scraperboy I'm not sure if this makes a difference, but I know of several people who chose Chicago over the likes of Stanford, Yale and Princeton (and this one girl who chose it over Harvard). I myself chose it over Cornell, Penn, Brown and Duke. The same just can't be said for Notre Dame or WashU, even though they're both great schools. I didn't apply to either of those schools; the only schools in the Midwest I even looked at were Chicago and Northwestern (I'm in Virginia).

I ultimately chose the University of Chicago because there is literally no better place in the country to major in Economics. It's avg starting salary in that major beats MIT and Princeton--something few schools (Midwest or otherwise) can lay claims too. Have you ever heard of the Chicago School of Economics by any chance? It sure wasn't named after the city.

ND is a very good undergraduate college and highly selective--possibly the most difficult to get into in the midwest. However, the question was "best university" not "best college." And, better than U of C in the liberal arts? You obviously know very little about Chicago. Hell, there's two major social science schools of thought (economics and sociology) named after Chicago. How many schools of thought are named after Notre Dame?


ND is very selective; if you didn't have a parent or grandparent go to the school, your chances of getting in are very slim. This comes before gpa and test scores. I lost respect for that school when I saw many kids with lower gpa's and test scores get into ND over more qualified canidates all because of legacy. I'm not saying its bad school, because it graduates do go on to do very well in life, but I think the school could benefit from changing its admissions policies a little.

^^Considering Washington University is ranked #1 in the Midwest by US News & World Report, your assertions are completely subjective.

Yes, it is subjective. I guess I should've said "There's no question, in my mind, that the University of Chicago is number 1."

A university should not be judged only by its undergraduate education. One should look at the grad school as well. Minnesota probably is not a good college, seen from the undergraduate ranking of USNews, even though if you just look at the academic excellece part of USNews, it shoould be ranked way higher than it is now. What pulls the rank lower is just the huge student body, not the academic reputation. Besides ranking itself, a student should look at how they ranked each school. Research wise, UMinnesota might not be as good as Michigan, but is surely better than U Virginia or North Carolina.
It is arguable whether it is better than Wisconsin, but not worse. Minnesota's business school is ranked below those schools you mentioned, yet is a lot higher than Wisconsin or Illinois. For law school, it is the same way. Both business school and law school ranks are comparable to Washington University. For enginneering, it is far above Washington University or Virgina or North Carolina. Also, the engineering rank is not fair at all. The peer assesment score of Minnesota should be ranked 15th, 0.3 points higher than USC. However, what makes the rank low is the research expenditure for which USNEWs just took the data reported by each school. i just can't believe that Minnesota's research expenditure in engineering is lower than Florida or Washington University where funding is such a big problem that a lot of students have to find advisors elsewhere. That's just insane. If one looks at the NRC report in 1995, Minnesota's engineering is ranked 11th.

It is not easy at all to have all your major schools be ranked above or around the 20th. None of Illinois, Wisconsin or North Carolina or Virginia can do so. Not to mention the 'good' colleges like Emory or Washington University or Notre Dame or Wake Forest, etc. Besides, there is no doubt that Minnesota's chemical engineering is ranked top 3. It has been ranked top 3 for so many years. Even in the NRC report in 95, Minnesota's chemical engineering is ranked No. 1. Since then, each year in USNews, it is ranked 1st or 2nd, never below the 3rd.

Minnesota's business school isn't ranked that highly. It's ranked behind three other Big 10 schools I believe, and lands in the 20's- which is good but not great. I'm not Minnesota bashing, either... Minnesota is a very good college, though, no doubt. It's not saught after like Texas, Chapel Hill, Berk, Michigan, UCLA, Ohio State, Purdue (wtf), or U of Washington- which are the Publics that rank above it.

Minnesota will never become elite like Michigan though. Michigan- publicwise- is it's it's own league in the Big 10 barring NW.

For engineering in general, Minnesota is ranked below Wisconsin, Purdue, Austin, Michigan, Penn State, UCSB, U of Washington, U of Florida, Ohio State, U of Illinois, Berkeley, UC San Diego, Texas, U of Maryland, and maybe another Public.

It also does not rank (at least in the top 3) for Chemical Engineering as someone here said...

U of Minnesota is "getting better" (although their athletic program is probably the least exciting in the Big 10), but no other Big 10 Public School will reach the "jene sai quois" or whatever of Michigan.

Minnesota, in the long term, give it 15-30 years, does have a chance of getting to the 3rd or 4th spot in Publics in the Big 10.

Where the hell is Loyola?

U of Minnesota is "getting better" (although their athletic program is probably the least exciting in the Big 10), but no other Big 10 Public School will reach the "jene sai quois" or whatever of Michigan.

Northwestern and Indiana are definately not as exciting as Minnesota.

Minnesota did not make it to the tournament last year. They made it to the "losers tournament" but were not in contention for the NCAA Championship. Also, even the people who finish 7th in the Big Ten get a bowl game...

Also: Carlson/Minnesota's business school is not rated "much higher" than Wisconsin. It is ranked 23rd and Madison's is 31. Not a big difference.

Also, among publics, Wisconsin ranked 3rd with research output, and Minnesota ranked 11th. The first three research publics (UCLA, Michigan, Wisconsin) were all within 7 million of eachother, and thus extremely close. Most other big public research schools (Berkeley) were well over 100-300 million below these three.

Furthermore, Wisconsin's business school accepts 39.1 percent of those that apply (who have an average GMAT of 659) while Minnesota accepts 48.1 of those that apply and has a GMAT average of 650.

Minnesota is certainly a great school, but it does not have the research output of the giants (Wisconsin, Cal, UCLA, Michigan) and although it's grad schools rank highly, they are not overly competitive.

But do not take any rankings seriously; I certainly don't. You can look at the hard scores (like average ACT, GPA) of students at The Princeton Review site, and they are less than impressive at Minnesota. But still, like I said, USNews rankings, most people need to realize... are stupid bullshit. They take shit like "alumni giving rate" into consideration, which boosts some schools like USC and other privates higher than they deserve to be, and pushes publics a bit down.

Part of my apparent Minnesota-bashing is probably caused by sports rivalries, but Minnesota is just not first-teir in any of it's specific graduate schools (Law, Business, etc). The only publics that ever reach first teir status are Berk, Mich, and UVa, and UCLA

How is UIUC losing out to Minnesota and Indy? You can still get into Bloomington with a 24 ACT.

I chose UChicago over several Ivies and Northwestern didn't even come close. When I got my acceptance envelope to NU I was just like "oh, that's nice..."

^ Well, I would argue that the University of Michigan is on par with U Chicago. It didn't do well on the poll above, but in reality it's a top notch university that has only been getting better over my lifetime

Minnesota definitely. Iowa, too, i believe.

Poor Chicagoland kids. They end up in droves in Madison, Bloomington, and Iowa City....and not a penny break on out-of-state tuititon.


Iowa definitely does not have reciprocity with WI (if you don't believe me, ask my distraught, bankrupt parents). I don't believe IL and IA have reciprocity either, yet there are a shit-ton of chiburban kids at Iowa.

As for Madison, I didn't get in despite a 31 ACT composite score and a "perfect 12" on the writing sample. I guess that 2.9 GPA my sophmore year in high school did come back to haunt me. :bash: Also attending a high school where 7 kids went to Ivy Leagues (and others to Wash U, Univ. of Chicago, Stanford, et al) doesn't help your chances of getting in to a competitive in-state school like Madison.

The only state that has reciprocity with Wisconsin is Minnesota. There are tons and tons of Chitown and East Coast kids here, with still tons from every other state. Also, like UMich, it's a big jewish school.

Minnesota did not make it to the tournament last year. They made it to the "losers tournament" but were not in contention for the NCAA Championship. Also, even the people who finish 7th in the Big Ten get a bowl game...

I didn't know Men's Basketball and Football were the only collegiate sports.

They are the only sports people nationwide really care all that much about.

True, but overall, Minnesota is far from least exciting in the Big Ten.

How is UIUC losing out to Minnesota and Indy? You can still get into Bloomington with a 24 ACT.

Indiana has passed MSU as the easiest B10 school to get into. It is the only B10 school which has a rating of "selective" by USN&WR. All the other schools are either "more selective" or "most selective."

True, but overall, Minnesota is far from least exciting in the Big Ten.

Yeah. But it's much less exciting than it should be.

Why do you say that?

Because it's a school of 52,000 people and they might get swept in Big 10 football.

Minnesota is competitive every year in men's hockey, women's hockey, baseball, volleyball, wrestling, and men's golf. Our football program's running game the last 3 years was far from boring, too.

Iowa definitely does not have reciprocity with WI (if you don't believe me, ask my distraught, bankrupt parents). I don't believe IL and IA have reciprocity either, yet there are a shit-ton of chiburban kids at Iowa.

As for Madison, I didn't get in despite a 31 ACT composite score and a "perfect 12" on the writing sample. I guess that 2.9 GPA my sophmore year in high school did come back to haunt me. :bash: Also attending a high school where 7 kids went to Ivy Leagues (and others to Wash U, Univ. of Chicago, Stanford, et al) doesn't help your chances of getting in to a competitive in-state school like Madison.

you sir got shafted. my friend got in with an ACT score of 26

you sir got shafted. my friend got in with an ACT score of 26


Probably an out-of-stater, for whom the standards are lower (I'm told). Either that, or his class rank was higher than mine. It was essentially a scarlet letter for admission at any top university.

Madison's AVERAGE ACT admittance score for the incoming class this year was a 30. That should say enough. Also, out-of-state is much more competitive. If you have a 3.5 overall, you can get in maybe from a Wisconsin school- but definitely not from a New York school. However dumb the girls that walk around campus may seem- they aren't.

Madison's AVERAGE ACT admittance score for the incoming class this year was a 30. That should say enough. Also, out-of-state is much more competitive. If you have a 3.5 overall, you can get in maybe from a Wisconsin school- but definitely not from a New York school. However dumb the girls that walk around campus may seem- they aren't.

3.5? My sister had a 3.8 unweighted (4.1 weighted) GPA and din't get in with a 28 ACT.

I just said it was possible - hence the Maybe. The average I believe is like a 3.7, but her ACT was below average. My friends sister applied with a 3.8/25 and got waitlisted and eventually not let in, too

My opinion is that U of C, NW, and Wash U have the highest pedigree, followed by U of michigan. I would also guess those are the most nationally recognized.

I really only take those US News and world report rankings with a grain of salt. They certainly have some value, but it's impossible to strictly measure the greatness of schools in relation to one another. That's why I think national perception is extremely important, and why I listed the schools I did.

^ I've said this before, and I'll say it again.

Why is U of Mich getting the shaft here? I would put it at an equal level to U Chicago. And NW? Sorry, not at the level of those two. U Chicago won by a sizeable margin, and I wonder if the presence of a lot of Chicago forumers has influenced these results.

WHen it comes down to it, in most areas U Mich is ranked quite highly. WHile UC beats it out as a business school, U Mich wins as a medical school. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Of course, I am speaking of them as graduate schools. For undergrad, it has been too many years for me to say which is better. I would suspect U Chicago is a bit more selective.

There unquestionably an anti-public university filter to the USN&WR rankings...and other of its kind.

Michigan gets almost as undervalued in the midwest as the ridiculous position that Cal has in relationship to other western universities.

So, yes, Michigan is every bit as good as Chicago, Northwestern and any midwest school as Cal is every bit as good as Stanford or any west coast school.

^ No, I'll tell you what it is. When University of Minnesota and University of Wisconsin beat University of Michigan, that tells me that there are a bunch of forumers from Minneapolis and Milwaukee (and of course, Chicago, as I mentioned from my previous post) that are boosting their own universities.

It makes me laugh--how silly, since everyone knows that University of Michigan is perhaps the top (among the top 3) universities in the entire midwest. BTW, I never went to UMich and have no ties to the place. I just have a hard time believing the silly results to the poll.

Milwaukee School of Engineering is a top school for tech based careers and also has a nice Business program. I thought I would add that to the list.

While I'm new to the forum, I'm anything but new to the midwestern college debate. After having attended both Wisconsin and Minnesota (transfered to the U OF M) my junior year, I believe I can provide a rather objective opinion on the educational merit of both institutions. I maintain a high level of respect of UW, and feel it belongs among the upper tier of Midwestern schools. I do, however, feel that the education provided at Minnesota is equally comparable, and actually better within my particular field of geography. Additionally, Minnesota did NOT fall in the US news rankings, it actually increased from its place of 77 last year into the 60's, and Carlson only ranked 23rd in its full time MBA program (not nearly the full extent of its graduate program). I question where some of this information is being mis-represented?

I posted that a long time ago, that it dropped. I can't remember when.

Minnesota has much less jene sai quios or whatever than Wisconsin. It's ranked quite badly (below University of Delaware) and it's ACT scores and average GPAs are quite low compared to other Big 10 schools such as Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, or especially Michigan.

Minnesota is no doubt a good school. Especially Grad School. But it lacks the "world class" attachment that Wisconsin and Michigan have. I think there plan to become one of the Top 3 research universities in the World is a bit far fetched.

It's graduate schools are, I think, equal with Wisconsin's. No better, no worse. You can't pay too much attention to rankings, and there is really no difference between 23 and 31, it's all about tiers. There is the first tier (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc), the second tier (Washington U, U of C, etc), and then the ginormous third tier that includes Wisconsin and Minnesota, both undergrad and grad. Admissions departments don't care about the ranking of your school.

^ No, I'll tell you what it is. When University of Minnesota and University of Wisconsin beat University of Michigan, that tells me that there are a bunch of forumers from Minneapolis and Milwaukee (and of course, Chicago, as I mentioned from my previous post) that are boosting their own universities.

It makes me laugh--how silly, since everyone knows that University of Michigan is perhaps the top (among the top 3) universities in the entire midwest. BTW, I never went to UMich and have no ties to the place. I just have a hard time believing the silly results to the poll.

or perhaps something "everyone (should) know" is that the whole rating system is nothing more than a lot of b.s. from the start.

Madison's AVERAGE ACT admittance score for the incoming class this year was a 30. That should say enough. Also, out-of-state is much more competitive. If you have a 3.5 overall, you can get in maybe from a Wisconsin school- but definitely not from a New York school. However dumb the girls that walk around campus may seem- they aren't.


30? not quite, more like 27.6.

taken from the school website.

impressive freshman class. im proud to be a part of these stats.

UW-Madison received 22,816 total freshman applications, the most in university history.

Of those, 13,322 were admitted and 5,643 students enrolled.

1,182 or 20.9 percent, are first-generation college students.

There is record-high student of color representation, both in number and percentage. The freshman class is now 14.2 percent students of color, up from 12.7 percent last year. UW-Madison received 10 percent more applications from students of color.

Academically, 57 percent of incoming freshmen ranked in the top tenth of their high school classes.

Women make up 53.9 percent of the freshman class, down from 56.1 percent last year.

Average ACT score of new freshmen is 27.6, compared to 22.2 for the state and 21.1 for the nation.

Sixty-four percent intend to take honors courses at UW-Madison, and 55 percent plan to study abroad.

Wisconsin, Minnesota and Illinois are the top feeder states, followed by New York, California, New Jersey and Massachusetts.

Top Wisconsin feeder counties are Dane, Waukesha, Brown, Outagamie and Racine.

There are incoming freshmen from all states except Vermont, South Carolina and Arkansas.

I went off studentsreview.com and princetonreview.com, both have higher than a 27.5

I went off studentsreview.com and princetonreview.com, both have higher than a 27.5

princetonreview probably just rounded up to 28.
and studentsreview...thats based on like 100 student...

thats really interesting to see the wisconsin counties most accepted. I see represented Milwaukee's west metro, Green Bay, Appleton, Madison, and the shocker: racine!?

In the wall street journal, Univ of Michigan was ranked top business school in the nation. Thats good news for there national image.

In the wall street journal, Univ of Michigan was ranked top business school in the nation. Thats good news for there national image.

^ Top? Wow, even higher than MIT, Wharton, and Harvard? I find that interesting, although I'm not surprised. It's good to see U of M thriving--it's a great university and I'm damn fed up with Ivy League elitism.

BTW, do you have a link to that particular article?

^ Top? Wow, even higher than MIT, Wharton, and Harvard? I find that interesting, although I'm not surprised. It's good to see U of M thriving--it's a great university and I'm damn fed up with Ivy League elitism.

BTW, do you have a link to that particular article?

yeah sorry i didnt dig it up right away, here you go: wall street


http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:JUCVNicFhzsJ:online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/MB_06_Scoreboard.pdf+wall+street+journal+michigan+top+business+school&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

if not just search GOOGLE.com Wall street journal top business schools