I know you guys are probably tired of these, but I am bored. Plus I don't remember seeing this one. In terms of entertainment, growth, attractiveness, skyline, etc. Which of these cities is better.

Fayetteville is a cess pool. Sorry

For once I actually agree with something he said, though I'd wager it is for different reasons...

I choose death by electric shock.

I'm not a huge Greenville fan, but I have driven through Fayetteville several times and it is a city well past its height. Cesspool is an accurate description.

What's next - Spartanburg vs. Greenville, NC? :) I'll give this one to Greenville SC.

Greenville is a crap town. Almost nothing in the way of cultural and entertainment establishments. Definitely nothing in the way of downtown vibrance. To be fair, for the most part it's too new to have deep-rooted urban maturity, but it doesn't look to me like they're even trying to build the place into a real city. It's basically one long New Southern suburban hell.

BUT.....

Even Greenville can't compare to the waste of space that is Fayetteville. There's nothing that I know of that can redeem Fayette-Nam. Even Greenville has economic vibrance to justify its existence.

Greenville wins by attrition.

I just can't figure out why some of you hate Greenville. Maybe because its a city thats pushing hard in the right direction, mostly. I think its a beautiful blooming city, which is why I moved here. There is lots of development going on. It is growing quickly. It is also beautiful at night if you are in the right spots. Come on folks! Give my city a break and a chance.

When the first capitol building burned down, they almost moved the state capitol to Fayetteville. Back then it was the largest city in NC.

I would say Greenville. You guys are greatly under-estimating Greenville.

http://greenvilleonline.com/images/banner0716left.jpg

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/5369/c8qmain2.jpg

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/400/o9vgville.jpg

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/9871/f7dgville3.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/209974/b3b.jpg

1930's view of Main Street in Greenville!

http://img30.exs.cx/img30/4217/greenvillesc1940s1.jpg

http://greenvilleonline.com/news/images/fallspark/images/bridge08.jpg

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v342/Spartanburger/Greenville/cityGreenvilleSC_skyline_night2.jpg

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v342/Spartanburger/Greenville/cityGreenvilleSC_downtown_night.jpg

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v342/Spartanburger/Greenville/cityGreenvilleSC_skyline.jpg

http://www.greenvillesouth.com/pavil2.jpg

http://www.greenvillesouth.com/falls1.jpg

Thanks Matthew. Greenville is striving to become a productive and cosmopolitan city. I am thinking of driving to Asheville just for the sake of going somewhere different. I have only been there once. Maybe you can tell me some spots to check out.

Dang Mathew, you have alot of cool photos :).

Bob Jones approves of those pictures!

Hmmm, let's think about this one. Fayettnam...hot, sandy, dirty, full of transients that care nothing about where they live 'cause they'll be shipped off to the middle-east shortly, and lots of whispy, twiggy pine trees - OR - Greenville...downtown full of life, beautiful riverside park, views of the Blue Ridge, and a people actually like living there.

Hard choice.

Bob Jones approves of those pictures!

Actually, outside of BJU I rarely ever here about BJ. If he and his twisted views are what you are basing Greenville off of you are using the wrong information. One person doesn't make a City and he is not involved in many things outside of BJU. Greenville is beautiful, peaceful, and thriving. Oh, and thats coming from a non caucasian.

I have always liked Greenville. Fayetteville is in a flat pine barren. Real pretty

Sorry but Greenville is not very nice compared to Charleston and Columbia and really anywhere else on earth. It does have a quaint little downtown... but that's the point, it's a quaint little small town downtown surrounded by a city's worth of sprawl.

But compared to Fayetteville? Tough call.

I think the downtown area in Greenville is one of the best. It did win the 2003 Main Street Award. I wish you guys who feel this way could revisit.

And Bull Connor and Gerald Allen approve of your post Justin. :D

As you can see, that's a doubled bladed knife. I live in the county just north of Greenville County (Henderson) and our TV and Radio is mostly from Greenville. I drive through Greenville to get to and from college/home. These forums are the only place I ever hear the name Bob Jones. These forums and history class are the only places I hear the names Bull Connor or Gerald Allen from your city. No one would ever doubt how artsy/edgy Asheville is, but we have Billy Graham and his Billy Graham Ministries International. Every city has their own "Bob Jones." I would say New York has more conservative organiations than any of our cities. The difference is, people are willing to forget the one in their city, but they aren't willing to forget Greenville's. You guys need to realize that Bob Jones has no influence on Greenville's growth or attitude. Greenville also can't do anything about Bob Jones anymore than you can do anything about Bull Connor or Gerald Allen.

Thank you Matthew. Everyone on here since the day I joined seems to want to beat Greenville up. And enough with this Bob Jones crap! I never hear of him til I come on here. I guess none of your cities have twisted people in them right? If I am non caucasian and live in Greenville and can forget he exist, I am sure the ones who bring him up and don't live here can forget he exist. Its people like that who give a person like BJ so much publicity, because they bring him back up all of the time. The fact that he is from here doesn't make the city. It is still beautiful, blossoming, and productive.

I have a picture of this office building under constrution somewhere. It was part of the Greenville Westin Hotel project. It says a lot that Westin Hotels thought enough of Greenville to take part in the restoration of the Poinsett Hotel. How many cities like Greenville have a top quality hotel, like Westin, in their downtown?

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Ruffwax07/SC-DT-Aug2002-018.JPG

Greenville and the Upstate is the business center of SC.

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/3128/375gnsc04-04.jpg

Look how beautiful it is!

http://www.carolinafamilyadventures.com/images/greenville.jpg

http://www.greatergreenville.com/development/street.jpg

http://www.greenvillesouth.com/mainst2.jpg

It's fast growing too!

http://www.bookends.us/Photos/7.9.04%20progress2.jpg

http://www.greenvillearea.net/graphics/photos/morning%20012.jpg

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/3128/375gnsc04-10.jpg

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/3128/375gnsc04-12.jpg

Thanks for the photos. Greenville is a beautiful city!

I want some Fayetteville photos; from the part I went through, it was a pretty nice looking city; but I did stay in the nicest parts possible.

I have been really impressed with Greenville's downtown and riverfront improvements.

Anyone who says Greenville doesnt have a vibrant downtown obviously hasnt been there in the past few years. I am definately NOT a fan of the Upstate area...I live here and hate it, but Greenville, for a city of its small size, does have a vibrant DT area. I lived in Fayetteville for a while too and it was pretty bad...but to tell you the truth I liked the people better there than in the Upstate SC area...

downtown Greenville is cool, but as a whole the city is way too conservative for my tastes.

I don't know why but I think this thread is funny. Anyways...

Greenville is SC's best-kept secret...IMO. It has a great downtown. Fayetteville...???...what UPWARD, said.

I know BJU gets alot of the mention, but you can't list Greenville without also listing Furman University. One of the most beautiful college campuses in the States.

http://www.furman.edu/postcard/Postcards/pic13.jpg

www.furman.edu

Wow; thats a very cool tower.

I don't know why but I think this thread is funny. Anyways...

Greenville is SC's best-kept secret...IMO. It has a great downtown. Fayetteville...???...what UPWARD, said.

So New Bern is NC's best kept secret & SC's best kept secret is Greenville?!? Why not Abbeville or Beaufort?

I don't think anybody's trying to "beat up" on Greenville. Why would anyone hate a mid-sized city with no outstanding attributes?

As has been pointed out above, the problem with Greenville is that it has a small-town downtown with big-city sprawl. Yes, its central core is fairly attractive, but it's nothing to rave over. Considering the immense resources that have been flowing into the city over the past decade or two, it should be much, much larger. Unfortunately all the growth is going out, out, out. A visitor's experience of Greenville is that it's nothing but car lots and Applebees.

So New Bern is NC's best kept secret & SC's best kept secret is Greenville?!? Why not Abbeville or Beaufort?
Because I've never been to Abbeville and I don't live in Beaufort. ;)

Justadude, what the hell are you talking about? Do you live here? If not, how do you know so much about Greenville? Is it sprawling? Yes! Is the core getting better and growing everyday? Yes! There are currently plans for 3 new towers, not to mention all of the other development going on downtown. A midsized city with no attributes? Are you nuts? Greenville is known for lots of attributes. Many large companies have there headquarters here. BMW USA, Michelin, ICAR just to name a few. Liberty Bridge in Falls Park is the only one of its kind. Its beautiful! Greenville a secret? I doubt it. It is a hot bed for growth right now. How often do you come here? How much do you actually know about Greenville? Probably not near as much as you would like to think.

I gave Fayetteville a sympathy vote thinking i'd be the only one...oh well.

Greenville, SC by a long shot.

Justadude, what the hell are you talking about? Do you live here? If not, how do you know so much about Greenville?

I've been to Greenville on a number of occasions for different reasons, ranging from stopping for dinner on the way through to spending the weekend in town. I'd say I probably end up there at least half a dozen times a year for one reason or another. You're right that a number of large companies have settled in there, but that's not really going to make the city feel any different. The park is nice as well. But as far as I can tell minor-league hockey is about the most interesting thing to DO in town. If you compare it to similar-sized towns like Asheville, Chapel Hill or Wilmington, it doesn't even come CLOSE to the feeling of large-town urbanity and culture.

I'm sorry if this is stepping on your toes, but I'm pretty sure what I'm saying is in line with the common opinion of Greenville. Its downtown has the feeling of a much smaller town than it is, and the sprawl around it is really a turn-off to a lot of people. That doesn't mean everything about Greenville is bad, just that it has a lot of maturing to do. Glad to know they're finally seeing some vertical growth.

Yep you did step on some toes! Doesn't compare to Asheville, Chapel Hill, or Wilmington? What the hell! I have family members in Asheville that come here for things not available there. Just because you visit doesn't make you an expert on a city and it definetly doesn't give you the right throw judgement on the city. Common opinion of Greenville? Your funny. Where are you from by the way? I sense some envy. Greenville has grown at such an incredible pace things are just getting on track to catch up with the growth, which is the reason for all of the development downtown and around town.

I still say the Upstate is stuck in the Civil War, and that's after living there ;)

I don't think its stuck in civil war, I just think its very conservative like most of the country apparently is. Conservatives have won 2 elections in a row! I'm on the fence, but I still say I like it here.

Yep you did step on some toes! Doesn't compare to Asheville, Chapel Hill, or Wilmington? What the hell! I have family members in Asheville that come here for things not available there.

I would like very much to know what Greenville is offering that those towns aren't. Whatever it is, it's a pretty well-hidden secret.

Just because you visit doesn't make you an expert on a city and it definetly doesn't give you the right throw judgement on the city.

I might not be an "expert" on the city (whatever that means) but I'd say that after a few visits one begins to have the "right" (whatever that means) to judge a city's general worth in comparison to another. Otherwise we'd all be sitting around talking nonjudgmentally about our hometowns, and these boards would suck... forget the vs. threads.

Where are you from by the way? I sense some envy. Greenville has grown at such an incredible pace things are just getting on track to catch up with the growth, which is the reason for all of the development downtown and around town.

I'm from Charlotte originally. Believe me, Greenville is not a city that I've ever heard named in conjunction with the word "envy". I know you're trying to stick up for the place, but be reasonable. Civic pride has its limits. These discussions aren't going to influence any local economies, so there's no need for intense boosterism here.

I would like very much to know what Greenville is offering that those towns aren't. Whatever it is, it's a pretty well-hidden secret.

Shopping.

Greenville has better stores than Asheville, but that is starting to change. It wasn't until recently we got our first Target. Asheville is at the bottom of the list when it comes to retail. Greenville gets things years before we do. Greenville's Haywood Mall even has a Macy's department store! Some have even cited this as a reason not to move to Asheville! I don't care much for chain retail, and you can always go to Greenville. That's our attitude! It's a great place to go shopping! They have nice stores and great restaurants. Then later that night, you can explore downtown with live music and fun before driving back to Henderson or Buncombe counties to the North. I'm in Henderson County and Greenville County borders our county. It's not that far away.

Does anyone have pics of Fayetteville?

I would like very much to know what Greenville is offering that those towns aren't. Whatever it is, it's a pretty well-hidden secret.



I might not be an "expert" on the city (whatever that means) but I'd say that after a few visits one begins to have the "right" (whatever that means) to judge a city's general worth in comparison to another. Otherwise we'd all be sitting around talking nonjudgmentally about our hometowns, and these boards would suck... forget the vs. threads.



I'm from Charlotte originally. Believe me, Greenville is not a city that I've ever heard named in conjunction with the word "envy". I know you're trying to stick up for the place, but be reasonable. Civic pride has its limits. These discussions aren't going to influence any local economies, so there's no need for intense boosterism here.

You know nothing about Greenville. Your from Charlotte. So what! You want a prize for that? You come to Greenville on occasion, but you don't live here everyday and don't have the opportunity I do to learn about it. It is obvious you have a dislike for Greenville, and I guess thats ok. Thats not going to stop it from growing and progressing. You are showing strong emotions and trying hard to convince me and others that there is nothing special about Greenville. You don't have to come here, and you don't have to live here, as a matter of fact you can choose to go around Greenville instead of through it. If I don't like a place I stay away from it. You can do the same. Next time you see a thread with Greenville in it you can also choose not to read it if you know you don't like the city. And Matthews, thanks for backing Greenville! I think Asheville is beautiful and special also. Even though we aren't a metropolis like Charlotte or Atlanta. :bow:

I guess thats it.

Greenville beacuse this is the wrong size city to go up against Fayetteville

Greenville beacuse this is the wrong size city to go up against Fayetteville

I am not sure I understand. Greenville's city population is only 56,000(small politically drawn lines, annexation is hard to do in SC); I think Fayetteville's city population is 100,000+. Although Greenville's urban area population and metro population is more than Fayetteville's. What cities are best for Greenville to go up against?
Greenville's urban area is 302,194 and the metro is 578,000(metro split recently)
Fayetteville is somewhere around 280,000 for urban area and 350,000 or so metro. Don't hold me to this. This is what I went by when I started this thread.

Shopping. ... Asheville is at the bottom of the list when it comes to retail.

This is true, but Asheville's a much better place to do window shopping. It lacks the big retail chains but it has a much quirkier shopping scene with a lot of unique stores. I've never found anything like that in G-ville. I guess it depends on what kind of shopping you're looking for.

Your from Charlotte. So what! You want a prize for that?

No, I was just answering your question. Where I'm from makes little if any difference. I'm not a cheerleader representing any particular city, I'm just calling them as I see them.

You are showing strong emotions and trying hard to convince me and others that there is nothing special about Greenville.

No, I'm really not.

I've never been to Greenville SC... From the pics here, I can't believe it is even being compared to Fayetteville. Perhaps there is a more appropriate comparison for Greenville out there.

Though Greenville NC is just a college town (ECU), it would be interesting to see pics of the two places together, being that they share the same name and all.

I am not sure I understand. Greenville's city population is only 56,000(small politically drawn lines, annexation is hard to do in SC); I think Fayetteville's city population is 100,000+. Although Greenville's urban area population and metro population is more than Fayetteville's. What cities are best for Greenville to go up against?
Greenville's urban area is 302,194 and the metro is 578,000(metro split recently)
Fayetteville is somewhere around 280,000 for urban area and 350,000 or so metro. Don't hold me to this. This is what I went by when I started this thread.
Well what i mean by that is not pop but things to do. Buildings, sports, places to eat things that make a city a city and Fayetteville just doesn't really have as much as Greenville or maybe i just didn't go to the side of Fayetteville that has that stuff. What city should Greenville go up against that is a good question, thats one for you to figure out.

I think Greenville should go up against a similar city with maybe similar geography, etc. Knoxville, Tn. or Huntsville, Al. comes to mind as a reasonable vs thread

I think Greenville should go up against a similar city with maybe similar geography, etc. Knoxville, Tn. or Huntsville, Al. comes to mind as a reasonable vs thread

I have always felt that Knoxville was a great deal larger than Greenville, but then I know nothing about Knoxville.

I'm not sure how K-ville compares to G-ville in terms of population, but even if it's larger Greenville can probably still compete with it. I've been through Knoxville dozens of times and have always been thoroughly unimpressed. It has virtually no skyline, no nightlife outside sports bars, and no special cultural attractions that I know of. If UT wasn't based there it would probably be half the size it is now. And believe me, UT isn't much of a cornerstone for a mid-sized city.

The only thing remarkable about Knoxville is that it was made fun of on the Simpsons once.

Justadude, sorry for coming off too harsh earlier in the thread. I got too involved. I really love Greenville, but I did come from a much smaller city; Greenwood, SC. There is definetly nothing bad I can say about Charlotte. I love the city, plus my Carolina Panthers are there. FloTownBaller I think Florence and Greenwood maybe of similar size. I have only been through Florence once though and don't really remember what it was like. Its near the beach so it couldn't have been bad.

Greenville.

The city is undergoing a pretty amazing renaissance of sorts for a city it's size.

Here's a list of mid/high rises proposed for the city:

1. Pinnacle on Main (Main @ Elford)
-- 13 stories

2. Camperdown Condominiums (Reedy View St., just past Academy St. bridge)
-- 12 stories

3. Main at McBee (old Kress Bldg. site - not a highrise, but Class A office space)
-- 7 stories

4. Bob Ellis designed building (mentioned along with Pinnacle on Main, but no location given)
-- 14 stories

5. RiverPlace Office (largest building shown in the rendering. Other buildings in RiverPlace are also 8+ stories)
-- 8-10+ stories

6. Gateway to Greenville* (no actual info, but original plan was 15 stories)
-- 15+ stories

7. Keystone Properties, LLC Office Building (behind the currently vacant Kimbrell's building site)
-- 12 stories

8. Mixed-Use Tower @ Main & Broad (if not #4 on our list)
-- 14 stories

9. The Tower at Falls and Broad (Ron Vergnolle & PHC Communities)
-- 20 stories

(taken from a poster on another site)

Not to mention that the city will be soon developing the International Center for Automotive Research and will also be the first city in the Carolinas to get a Salvation Army Kroc Center (http://www.kroccenter.org/Virtual%20Tour%20-%20Apr%202004.pdf) (this is a tour of the one in San Diego).

You've also got the headquarters for Hubbell Lighting corporation:

http://www.lightsearch.com/lightnow/June_05_images/Hubbell_New_Facility.jpg

Also a new ballpark is to be built in the West End and a $50 million Publix/housing project is coming to the city as well. The city will also be getting one of most impressive Hampton Inns I've seen:

http://www.hamptoninnandsuitesgreenville.com/images/his-riverplace.jpg

So in terms of economic development......where's the competition? From what I understand, Fayetteville is overly dependent on Ft. Bragg, whereas Greenville's economy is more diversified.

But I guess it all depends on what one looks for in a city.

I say Greenville in a landslide! Fayettville is working on improving their downtown though.

James,

It would be cool if u could start a new bern thread with lots of photos???

If I had a digital camera I would

Greenville is getting a Whole Foods Market. Fayetteville isn't. So there. I guess this debate is officially OVER!!! :bleh:

It is very hard to root for Fayetteville when compared to Greenville :( The former has not yet found a way out of bad reputation - more than anything else - but I surely hope the city reinvents itself some day... soon. There is potential, indeed, but as is, Fayetteville cannot impress and stand tall when compared to attractive cities and towns. Time will tell. Greenville wins this contest.

Greenville wins ths hands down even though there is hope for Fayetteville.