You make a very good point Wiggley, London is just too expensive for its own good.

Something for Langur:

I was like you, from london, and had similar perceptions about the north. Especially 12 years ago, at a time when places like leeds and manchester *were* really grim (or at least I thought they were). Leeds seemed like a cross between forest gate, and dagenham all rolled into one :lol:

Having lived here now and witnessing the huge changes (whilst london has rapidly become more and more of a dump), I have to say I prefer these awful northern mill and textile towns that you talk of. The quality of life is so much better. Employment levels are high and deprivation levels low. Plenty of greenery a stones throw away from a bustling and vibrant city centre, with excellent job opportunities. Places like leeds and manchester have the highest student population proportions in the UK, and this creates a real buzz when you go out round town - something I've often found lacking in London, particularly so in the greater london towns. To be able to live in the heart of the city centre, on the waterfront, on just a modest income is something Londoners never have the oppurtunity to do.

In terms of quality of life, Even someone on a basic wage can have the kind of lifestyle only a select few can attain in london.

As an example, I have one friend on just 17k/year working in a call centre in Leeds. He can afford his own city centre apartment.. a car, and has ample money for decent clothes, and money to go out. I also have a friend who lives in london and works in IT and is on 35k a year. He lives in a 2 bed ex council flat that he rents out in tower hamlets. The 2nd room he has to sub let. He cant afford a car, and doesnt have as much disposible income. He lives in a grotty area.. and has a long coummute to work each day. To get anywhere when he goes out.. taxis cost a fortune and are always over a tenner for anywhere. I also know people that, to afford a nice 3 bed semi in a tree lined suburban area have to have 2 people both working long hours to afford to live. Their area is so far from london that the commute is a nightmare. Also.. like most londoners.. their local town centre - the place where most of their urban interaction after work is done - (kingston upon thames) is small and lacks many amenities. They crave to be 5 minutes from a large city centre that has what they need, yet still be in tranquil suburbia, but this isnt possible in London.

So yup, from experience of living in both london, and the north.. gimme leeds, manchester, or liverpool anyday.

And if London is so good.. why are so many people leaving London? Yes london is heaving with immigration as new people arive to make it their home daily. But at the same time, tens of thousands of existing londoners annually are upping and leaving.. either to move as far away from london as possible yet still within commuting distance.. or they completely move away.

Yes, london has all sorts of cultural and tourist attractions, and museums, and art galleries.. some of the best in the world.. but lets be honest here.. most londoners dont experience all this, they just go to work 5 days a week in the city centre, braving the long commute, then come home to their house. They shop in their local small grim suburban town, only venturing into central london socially very occasionally. How many times this year have people on this thread visited the opera ? lol

spot on!

Well said wiggs, that monkey boy is a right twat, city bashing thread or not!

Well said wiggs, that monkey boy is a right twat, city bashing thread or not!

Who does he think he is? Thats one of the most insightful pieces i've read on SSC.

Oxford and Cambridge hold the strongest appeal, Canterbury impressed me, and Bath, Bristol, and Edinburgh all have some appeal.

These are just the places I'd expect you to say. Edinburgh is just the Scottish version of London, but friendlier a lot more attractive, while Bristol is where Londoners go when they want to go to uni and are scared of going 'up north'! Bath is very dull except for it's roman elements and Oxford and Cambridge, while being very nice architecturally, are nothing special. And, the amount of stuck up students on silly 1930s bikes, ringing their bells, while giving you a horrid look and nearly running you over is really annoying. Why would anyone want to live there? Why didn't those students go to a proper, red brick university like Leeds, Manc, Brum, Liverpool or Sheff, which cater for people who actually want to have occupations?? It's just about their 'grand' status. They are not all they are cracked up to be. Do some research. Look at how crap Cambridge Vet school performs compared to Liverpool, Edinburgh, Glasgow or Nottingham which is brand new for instance. From my experience at uni, those that don't get into Oxford/Cambridge usually end up in York or Durham, because the towns sound better to their bigoted southern parents. :ohno:

Something for Langur:

I was like you, from london, and had similar perceptions about the north. Especially 12 years ago, at a time when places like leeds and manchester *were* really grim (or at least I thought they were). Leeds seemed like a cross between forest gate, and dagenham all rolled into one :lol:

Having lived here now and witnessing the huge changes (whilst london has rapidly become more and more of a dump), I have to say I prefer these awful northern mill and textile towns that you talk of. The quality of life is so much better. Employment levels are high and deprivation levels low. Plenty of greenery a stones throw away from a bustling and vibrant city centre, with excellent job opportunities. Places like leeds and manchester have the highest student population proportions in the UK, and this creates a real buzz when you go out round town - something I've often found lacking in London, particularly so in the greater london towns. To be able to live in the heart of the city centre, on the waterfront, on just a modest income is something Londoners never have the oppurtunity to do.

In terms of quality of life, Even someone on a basic wage can have the kind of lifestyle only a select few can attain in london.

As an example, I have one friend on just 17k/year working in a call centre in Leeds. He can afford his own city centre apartment.. a car, and has ample money for decent clothes, and money to go out. I also have a friend who lives in london and works in IT and is on 35k a year. He lives in a 2 bed ex council flat that he rents out in tower hamlets. The 2nd room he has to sub let. He cant afford a car, and doesnt have as much disposible income. He lives in a grotty area.. and has a long coummute to work each day. To get anywhere when he goes out.. taxis cost a fortune and are always over a tenner for anywhere. I also know people that, to afford a nice 3 bed semi in a tree lined suburban area have to have 2 people both working long hours to afford to live. Their area is so far from london that the commute is a nightmare. Also.. like most londoners.. their local town centre - the place where most of their urban interaction after work is done - (kingston upon thames) is small and lacks many amenities. They crave to be 5 minutes from a large city centre that has what they need, yet still be in tranquil suburbia, but this isnt possible in London.

So yup, from experience of living in both london, and the north.. gimme leeds, manchester, or liverpool anyday.

And if London is so good.. why are so many people leaving London? Yes london is heaving with immigration as new people arive to make it their home daily. But at the same time, tens of thousands of existing londoners annually are upping and leaving.. either to move as far away from london as possible yet still within commuting distance.. or they completely move away.

Yes, london has all sorts of cultural and tourist attractions, and museums, and art galleries.. some of the best in the world.. but lets be honest here.. most londoners dont experience all this, they just go to work 5 days a week in the city centre, braving the long commute, then come home to their house. They shop in their local small grim suburban town, only venturing into central london socially very occasionally. How many times this year have people on this thread visited the opera ? lolYou live in Leeds if you prefer it. I gave my opinion on the city already. I disagree with the rest of your post. I'm a full time, self-supporting, and fee-paying student, but I can afford to live in Central London just down the street from Kensington Gardens/Hyde Park. I go out to swanky clubs and restaurants (though not all the time) and I travel all over the world several times per year. I have a very good quality of life. There are more than 400,000 students in London so if you can't find student life then you're a loser. If you can't sort yourself out with a social life or a decent place to live, even on £35k pa, then you're a loser. And, as you say, people from all over the world come to make London their home. Those moving to the commuter belt are generally those ready to settle down and start families. Now maybe you never went to the opera but some of us actually enjoy high culture. ;)

i've always wanted to try group

I'm very surprised you haven't already.

These are just the places I'd expect you to say. Edinburgh is just the Scottish version of London, but friendlier a lot more attractive, while Bristol is where Londoners go when they want to go to uni and are scared of going 'up north'! Bath is very dull except for it's roman elements and Oxford and Cambridge, while being very nice architecturally, are nothing special. And, the amount of stuck up students on silly 1930s bikes, ringing their bells, while giving you a horrid look and nearly running you over is really annoying. Why would anyone want to live there? Why didn't those students go to a proper, red brick university like Leeds, Manc, Brum, Liverpool or Sheff, which cater for people who actually want to have occupations?? It's just about their 'grand' status. They are not all they are cracked up to be. Do some research. Look at how crap Cambridge Vet school performs compared to Liverpool, Edinburgh, Glasgow or Nottingham which is brand new for instance. From my experience at uni, those that don't get into Oxford/Cambridge usually end up in York or Durham, because the towns sound better to their bigoted southern parents. :ohno:Edinburgh is not the Scottish version of London. It's nothing like London. And even its prettiest Regency crescents are not as grand as the elegent districts of west/central London so I'm not sure that I'd accept your claim that it's more attractive either. However I agree that Edinburgh is pretty which is more than can be said for former mill towns. Bath may be somewhat small and dull but at least it looks nice. I was there in that new Thermae spa last weekend and it was gorgeous. My girlfriend and I were in a warm rooftop pool looking up at the stars and down on the illuminated monuments of the city - beautiful! York, Durham, Bristol etc are popular university choices partly because they're good quality universities and partly because those cities are visually attractive. They don't just sound better, they look better too. Cambridge has won more Nobel prizes than any other university in the world and is currently ranked 2nd in the world (joint with Oxford and Yale and with only Harvard above). Oxbridge also represents the pinnacle of ambition and achievement in most academic fields both in Britain and the wider world. So I think they're more than just "grand" (though the architecture is stunningly beautiful - something you apparently attach no value to). Apparently a "proper" univesity has to be a redbrick in an industrial city in the North or Midlands. But isn't Bristol University also a redbrick? And if you think that Oxbridge students don't want to get occupations then you're sadly deluded, prejudiced, and, dare I say, somewhat inexperienced in this world. The difference between you and me is simply that I value to attractive urban surroundings wheras you apparently don't.

That might be correct, but Manchester has now moved on to finance, Knowledge and Media. Cotton used to be king, but Primark has now made it unviable. :)

Liverpool was handed a dead car industry, a dead food industry and 'bio-tech' but then NWDA gave Manc all the real money as that sector actually has some potantial! :)

Edinburgh has a different kind of beauty to London, they can't really be compared.

Edinburgh has a different kind of beauty to London, they can't really be compared.

Edinburgh is beautiful. Flew there from Birmingham for the first time a couple of years ago. We got in the taxi, it was about 8pm & dark, & told the driver it was our first time in the city. He immediately switched off his clock in the cab, & took us on a night time guided tour - all the buildings were lit up along the Royal Mile up to the castle, it was superb - the best city of this type in Britain :)

Edinburgh has a different kind of beauty to London, they can't really be compared.

Edinburgh is beautiful. Flew there from Birmingham for the first time a couple of years ago. We got in the taxi, it was about 8pm & dark, & told the driver it was our first time in the city. He immediately switched off his clock in the cab, & took us on a night time guided tour - all the buildings were lit up along the Royal Mile up to the castle, it was superb - the best city of this type in Britain :)

Why did it do that twice???? ^^

Because it was a good post;)

It's a little touristy sometimes with all the tartan and shortbread, but its still a lovely place:)

:lol: I will continue to use the city bashing thread to legitamtely city bash. As for them lowering themselves to my level, that is hilarious. I kept and will always keep all comments above board and civil. I'm not the one who desperately had to resort to personal attacks, posting peoples self-photos, and making racist comments. Ironically. it is me who manages to refrain from lowering myself to the level of the liverpool lot. :cheers:

The irony of all this is that you (wrongly) see negative comments about liverpool and liverpudlians as a racist attack, and as such feel its justifiable to make *real* racist comments about people's ethnicty. No other people of any region in the uk act the same way, be it yorkshire folk, mancunians, or brummies. Only scousers demonstrate this chip on their shoulder, yet similtaneously ironically demand not to treated like a minority ethnic group. It is self propogated by scousers themselves and your actions were so perfect at demonstrating this. :cheers:

I'm glad you posted this Wiggley, because it shows once and for all what a demented lunatic you are. I will begin by apologising to the other forummers for bringing this up again, but I cannot let it lie; however, it will be the last time I mention it before I put Wiggley on permanent ignore.

I must also point out that I am not from Liverpool; I was not born there or have ever lived anywhere near it. I am in fact much more affiliated to Leeds than to Liverpool, although it is a place I happen to be quite fond of having worked there and got to know the place and people over the years.

Let's begin with the basics. Wriggley has been allowed to get away with rather a lot here; nobody has bothered to check him and I think it sheds light on a wider problem in our society.

Race, n - "Humans considered as a group."

Racism, n - "Discrimination or prejudice based on race."

Race is a very broad term that applies to various types of human sub grouping, be it genetic, geographic, ethnic, religious. It also refers to the broader race, or species, which is the human race. It is a very broad and nebulous term. The term racism refers to a hatred of a particular human sub grouping - it is useful to think of it as a hatred of people per se, for whatever reason, because they are, or are perceived to be, different. Different in a bad way.

People like Wiiggley do not have a monopoly over the use of this term just because they have a particular skin colour or are from a particular part of the world, and nor do any other types of people, whether they be red haired, black, green eyed, albino, Muslim, etc. It is a common and rather sad state of affairs in our society that the word "racism" has been abused and misappropriated, and is now terribly misunderstood. Let's be clear though, primarily, its proper meaning refers to a hatred of the one single race - the human race - and any member or grouping within it. This is a rational interpretation of its meaning.

Just carefully read Wiggley's vicious outburst (above) and consider it in the context of his previous, repetitive campaign of nastiness against this imaginary enemy race he has created, called "scousers". Note how he intentionally uses this creation and clearly tries to differentiate it from other losely defined peoples around the UK. In one sentence he says it is impossible to be racist against "scousers", and in another effectively describes "scousers" as a race, and one that is quite evil.

In the quote above, he has had the malice to accuse the Liverpool forummers, and Liverpool folk generally, of racism based on a post that I wrote, and which not a single Liverpool forummer even commented on, let alone condoned. He not only levelled that word, "racism", against me, to further his own nasty interests, but also levelled it against a whole grouping of people who had had no involvement whatsoever. Is the logic of his posts and thoughts not a familiar one? Especially when you read them in the broader context of his long-term hate campaign. The fact that he uncontrollably targeted the scousers yet again is telling.

I posted a photo of an Indian train. It wasn't an invented or doctored image but a real one. It has neither negative nor positive connotations; it simply depicts the use of transport in some areas of Indian life. I used that image and several very minor and low level comments in an attempt to draw Wiggley's attention to the flaws and irony of his own thinking. Sadly it went right over his head, I suspect because he lacks intelligence, but also because he is nasty. It also went over the heads of several others, such as Langur, who failed to understand my post in the broader context. I don't blame those people for that; when people like Wiggley maliciously use the word "racism" and "racist" as a weapon, it scares people. Just to reiterate, I did not make a single negative comment about other human subgroups.

What saddens me though is that not a single person has bothered to check Wiggley; to say, "hang on a minute." When people like him use those words as weapons to further their own selfish and pathetic little objectives, it not only debases those words, but it is a disgusting insult to the people in this world, of all shades and origins, who are actually experiencing hatred.

Back to Wriggley's post above. Note his eagerness to launch into a vicious tirade against people who had no involvement in what was posted (not withstanding that what was posted was not actually racist, and certainly nowhere near as hateful as his posts.)

In an act of breath-taking and vile cynicism, this lad not only misappropriated quite serious terms, but then also proceeded to sling shit at a large group of people who had done nothing to him. Oddly, neither they, nor any other, cared to raise their hand in protest. Perhaps they were too afraid to speak in case he used the forbidden word against them. Well it isn't his word, and he was out of order to use it. His conduct over the last week has been despicable.

The ultimate irony of course is that, not only does he launch that weapon at people with impunity, but is in fact a pure, unadulterated racist himself. Read his posts and tell me the logic of his thoughts and writing are not the same as any other bigot.

Anyway, that's my piece. I'm putting the piece of shit on ignore so I won't say another word about it.

^ 99.9% of the population do not understand the word "racism" as applying to some random definition of a group based on any number of variables. "Racism" is popularly understood to be directed against a group with a different physical appearance (ie different racial characteristics). Liverpudlians do not have different physical appearance from the rest of us (aside, perhaps, from curly hair and moustaches ;) ) wheras attacking Wiggley for being Indian, and then providing, by association, an unflattering image of Indian poverty, as you did, is just downright racist in the old fashioned classical sense of the word as understood by the vast majority of decent people.

And the "Go home" comment didn't help.

Because it was a good post;)

It's a little touristy sometimes with all the tartan and shortbread, but its still a lovely place:)

I loved it there. The place we stayed at was a little out from the centre, about 2 miles, we had 3 nights there. The journey in to town was a pleasure, with well kept houses & shops - not like the cities in the North of England or the Midlands at all, where you have the affluent outer suburbs, the dreadful bit & then the city centre. Of all the cities I've been to in Europe, Edinburgh is up there with Prague, Vienna & Stockholm - 3 of my favourite European cities :)

Now you're just being flattering;)

As a tourist, do you think modern buildings would be a threat to the look and feel of the city?

Now your just being flattering;)

As a tourist, do you think modern buildings would be threat to the look and feel of the city?

I definately feel Edinburgh is not the right place for high rise buildings, by "high rise" I mean anything over 15 storeys, but well positioned modern buildings could work well in the city - but there isn't a lot you'd want to knock down in Edinburgh City Centre to make way for modern developments.

Glasgow however, especially along the Clyde, is a great place for tall buildings - & I think Glasgow has been a sleeping giant for too long in this respect (apart from the tall 1960's residential buildings in the city). Glasgow is one of the few British cities that could sustain major office growth, it is a vibrant, modern cosmopolitan city (not been for 10 years however - but noises coming out of Glasgow in recent years are good) - but Glasgow is lucky in the fact that it has retained some of it's 'grandeur'. To me Glasgow is a cross between Liverpool & Manchester ..... Liverpool because of the grand architecture & Manchester because of its vibrant commercial importance :)

Liverpool was handed a dead car industry, a dead food industry and 'bio-tech' but then NWDA gave Manc all the real money as that sector actually has some potantial! :)

You'll take it to the grave with you Tony. Let it go before it kills you. :pet:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/jwe0277lcopy.jpg

Thanks for opinions!

There is a 17 storey hotel planned which has kicked up a lot of fuss, so its good to get an opinion from a tourist.:) I think Leith (the city's waterfront) has got the potential for some great modern buildings.

Yes I'd agree about Glasgow. Elphinstone Place was Credit-Crunched, but with the Jumeirah announcement, we are all very excited. There are 4 main tower proposals at the moment, and 2 of them will be U/C soon, so good times:happy:

Thanks for opinions!

There is a 17 storey hotel planned which has kicked up a lot of fuss, so its good to get an opinion from a tourist.:) I think Leith (the city's waterfront) has got the potential for some great modern buildings.

Yes I'd agree about Glasgow. Elphinstone Place was Credit-Crunched, but with the Jumeirah announcement, we are all very excited. There are 4 main tower proposals at the moment, and 2 of them will be U/C soon, so good times:happy:

Fantastic news about Jumeirah - you'll be having all the rich Sheikh's flocking to your city!!

Hang on ..... this can't be right .... this is a "Bashing" thread, isn't it?? Perhaps we should start a 'CITY LOVE-IN THREAD' ... maybe? :lol:

^ 99.9% of the population do not understand the word "racism" as applying to some random definition of a group based on any number of variables. "Racism" is popularly understood to be directed against a group with a different physical appearance (ie different racial characteristics). Liverpudlians do not have different physical appearance from the rest of us (aside, perhaps, from curly hair and moustaches ;) ) wheras attacking Wiggley for being Indian, and then providing, by association, an unflattering image of Indian poverty, as you did, is just downright racist in the old fashioned classical sense of the word as understood by the vast majority of decent people.

it has a specific definition, whether its popular or not.

from the U.N. :-

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

Ergo you can be racist to, for example, the French and the Irish and they're caucasoid. If you turn people into an ethnic group by differentiating based on different traits, culture and their distinctiveness, you can be racist to them by the above definition. What's the difference between discriminating against people of different geographical region outside your country based on certain cultural traits, and discriminating against people of a different geographical region within your country based on certain cultural traits? Lines on a map.

Fantastic news about Jumeirah - you'll be having all the rich Sheikh's flocking to your city!!

Hang on ..... this can't be right .... this is a "Bashing" thread, isn't it?? Perhaps we should start a 'CITY LOVE-IN THREAD' ... maybe? :lol:

:lol: It's a very changeable thread, one minute everyone is best buddies, the next Wiggley is posting Unemployment statistics etc.

Yes the Sheikh's are welcome anyday!:bow: Apparently the Middle East loves the whole Scottish thing;)

You'll take it to the grave with you Tony. Let it go before it kills you. :pet:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/jwe0277lcopy.jpg

:lol:



The bastards WILL be the death of me!

Perhaps we should start a 'CITY LOVE-IN THREAD' ... maybe? :lol:

You should start one, would be 100x better than this trash :okay:

it has a specific definition, whether its popular or not.

from the U.N. :-

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

Ergo you can be racist to, for example, the French and the Irish and they're caucasoid. If you turn people into an ethnic group by differentiating based on different traits, culture and their distinctiveness, you can be racist to them by the above definition. What's the difference between discriminating against people of different geographical region outside your country based on certain cultural traits, and discriminating against people of a different geographical region within your country based on certain cultural traits? Lines on a map.

The UN doesn't own the word. The people do. Dictionaries always strive to follow popular understandings and the most common and popular understanding always appears top of the list. Where there is more than one understanding, or several variations, then the most popular usage will always be listed first, trumping less common uses, which then appear further down the list of definitions. In this case the UN definition is not listed in the dictionaires at all which only suggests how uncommon and legalistic it is. From Dictionary.com:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism?o=0

1) a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2) a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3) hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

However the UN definition is not far off the mark. I totally agree with "race, colour, and descent". However, like the dictionary, I do not agree with the UN that negative comments based on national origin are necessarily racist, unless the target's national origin can feasably be associated with a different racial type. Hence for me to say that "Brazilians are lazy" is not a racist comment as the target are a national group with no single racial type - and especially given that many Brazilians are of similar racial type to me. However if I say that "blacks are lazy" then I am being racist as I'm clearly attributing a negative characterstic to a racial group (it would be racist for a black man to say this too). If I say that "Indians are lazy" then I am attributing a negative characteristic to a national group, but one that is distinguished from me, a white man, by a different racial type. If the context is an insult about Indians dished out by a white majority member (eg Herr Rathbone) towards an Indian minority member (eg Wiggley - and note that Wiggley is "Indian" by descent, origin, and racial type rather than nationality) then it stinks of racism. The litmus test is whether the slur can feasably be attributed to racial type. Rathbone's comments to Wiggley pass this test. Wiggley's negative comments on Liverpudlians do not.

The word "ethnic" is also used by the UN. Once again, in popular usage, it's often synonymous with "racial type" (hence all those CRE-encouraged tick lists of racial types under the heading "ethnicity"). However ethnicity is a broader, albeit related, concept. Generally I'm happy with the UN's inclusion of "ethnic" because of the potential for overlap and synonymity with "race".

^^

Well the UN Definition is fairly clear in that there is no distinction between Racial Discrimination and Ethnic Discrimination. Likewise, in British Law a racial group is defined as "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin". So whether or not "the people" own the word it is pretty much irrelevent, its defined that way to cover as much as possible.

So you may rip up the UN/British Law definition and redefine it for yourself how you want it, to make it more acceptable to you or someone else, but at the end of the day its just a means of justifying abhorrent behaviour. Prejudices are fundamentally bad.

Okay so I'm going to bash Belfast using these statistics:

http://www.citymayors.com/gratis/uk_topcities.html

"Males: n/a" The place has no men!

in British Law a racial group is defined as "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin".

So which one of those do people from liverpool come under?

People from liverpool are not one unique racial group, colour, or nationality. They, are the same as the rest of england, in that they comprise of a variety of diferent racial groups, skin colours, and nationalities. Also, people from Liverpool are not of one sole ethnic or national origin. They are the same as the rest of england, in that they comprise of a mix of people of diferent ethnic origins. When the government releases data showing that almost 1 in 3 liverpudlians are economically inactive, they are not refering to a racial group, colour, nationality, or ethnic group, they are just refering to people who live in liverpool - whereby people in liverpool fit the same racial, nationality and ethnicity profile as the rest of england.

^^

Well the UN Definition is fairly clear in that there is no distinction between Racial Discrimination and Ethnic Discrimination. Likewise, in British Law a racial group is defined as "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin". So whether or not "the people" own the word it is pretty much irrelevent, its defined that way to cover as much as possible.

So you may rip up the UN/British Law definition and redefine it for yourself how you want it, to make it more acceptable to you or someone else, but at the end of the day its just a means of justifying abhorrent behaviour. Prejudices are fundamentally bad.In English law, and indeed in all Anglophone common law systems, the word "consideration" is one of the key concepts in the law of contract. It has been defined by centuries of case law and has a very precise meaning in the legal context. Does that mean that the legal profession now owns that word and monopolises its interpretation and understanding for everyone else? Does that mean that when ordinary people use it for their everyday purposes that they are, in fact, using it incorrectly? Of course not! As with "racism", you'll find that the dictionaries list the popular uses of the word first, and the legal definition comes way down in 8th place, where it belongs:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/consideration?o=0

Your UN definition of racism is not listed in the dictionaires at all which only suggests how uncommon and legalistic it is. "My" defintion, as you call it, is not mine at all. It's the one listed in the dictionary - and the dictionaries always prioritise the popular and common understandings. They never create definitions. They do not set themselves as master of the language. They strive merely to follow and reflect - never to lead. Theirs is the correct approach:


Oxford Dictionary: "racism"
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/racism?view=uk

1) the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race.
2) discrimination against or antagonism towards other races.


Cambridge Dictionary: "racism"
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=65090&dict=CALD

1) noun [U] (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialism) DISAPPROVING the belief that people's qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races.
2) noun [C] (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialist) DISAPPROVING someone who believes that other races are not as good as their own and therefore treats them unfairly.
3) adjective: "He furiously denied being racist." "They were the victims of a vicious racist attack."


Dictionary.com: "racism"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism?o=0

1) a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2) a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3) hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

You're trying to justify racist or quasi-racist behaviour. Whether or not its strictly racism, the behavoural pattern of a racist is there for all to see. You have gone out of your way to differentiate people from Liverpool from the rest of society and turn them into subgroup based on culture, linguistics, behavioural traits etc... Now you're backtracking by saying we're actually the same?


If anybody doubts Wiggley's racist/quasi-racist behaviour, this is the sort of thing we've had to put up with on the Liverpool board, never mind the City Bashing board;-

:rofl:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7376584.stm


so typical. You post something from the media, that unfortunatly shows liverpool in a way you dont want it to.. and just as expected.. childish personal attacks, and childish attacks on leeds. So fucking typical.. and u wonder why your all wallowing in famine, decay, and chronic deprivation, and why tens of thousands of people are fleeing merseyside annually, its down to ur pathetic mentality of whineing and victim culture, while other cities just get on with it. Your responses are so cliched. No other cities' people have this mentality. If someone had posted a similar article in the leeds forum about Leeds (or manchester, or brum), no one would have done what u did, they would have questioned the article. *this* is why liverpool is diferent and why u will *always* be held back by yor own pathetic petty mentality.

dont worry, i wont get dragged into ur wallowing chip-on-ur-shoulder arguments, im outta here :ohno:


Hes like a spoilt jealous little girl, he get jealous at something, post some shit stirring article or statistic for reaction, so that he can have a big hate filled rant and justify further name calling. We'll then get the perms and moustaches mocking people from Liverpool, or originally from Liverpool, which is near enough a scouse version of a golliwog. There is very little in the way of actual city bashing there, its the people from the city he is targetting, whether they be in the city or elsewhere, as demonstrated below. If we answer back we get called "whingers" or "self pity city".

Back in London, most scousers I knew of, were known to others as either big-issue seller, dole-scum, or just theif. :ohno: how cruel were kids!

^^

This is more like the City Bashing Thread!! :bash: :lol:

In English law, and indeed in all Anglophone common law systems, yada yada

You're arguing over semantics, both language and the law is open to interpretation and change. Whether its racist or quasi-racist, the sentiment is the same. There is a common theme in the above definitions, one of discrimination, intolerance, bullying and not being afforded the same rights as others based on some factor.

You're arguing over semantics, both language and the law is open to interpretation and change. Whether its racist or quasi-racist, the sentiment is the same. There is a common theme in the above definitions, one of discrimination, intolerance, bullying and not being afforded the same rights as others based on some factor.Rathbone was being racist. Wiggley was not. It's as simple as that!

at the end of the day it doesn't matter about the legal or quasi legal definitions about what is 'racist' or not. What is clear is that it is deeply, deeply offensive, as offensive as lots of thngs that could undoubtedly be classed as racist. The trouble is that it is meant to be so!

Rathbone was being racist. Wiggley was not. It's as simple as that!

I'm neither condemning nor condoning Herr Rathbone as I didn't read his post. If you want to stick up for a shit stirring hated filled little git Wiggley then I'll just end up popping you on ignore along with him sorry. :cheers:

at the end of the day it doesn't matter about the legal or quasi legal definitions about what is 'racist' or not. What is clear is that it is deeply, deeply offensive, as offensive as lots of thngs that could undoubtedly be classed as racist. The trouble is that it is meant to be so!

You've hit the nail on the head there Tony, cheers.

Rathbone was being racist. Wiggley was not. It's as simple as that!

No, I wasn't being; just because you have said it doesn't mean it is so.

Here is one of the definitions you posted:

Dictionary.com: "racism"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism?o=0

1) a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2) a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3) hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
Now please elaborate on how, precisely, I exercised any of the above in my postings. Bear in mind that what you are doing is making quite serious accusations; please state clearly and without any room for confusion, how I exercised hatred or intolerance of another race or other races in the way I addressed Wiggley. It is quite easy for you to discuss this sort of thing in a non-thinking manner, when really you should be very clear. It is a serious accusation and warrants a serious explanation.

Also, I think you entirely miss the point about what racism is all about, and why we have legal definitions relating to it. The entire point in the first place was to tackle hatred towards people; that was the essential rationale behind it. You completely miss the point when you focus on the types of people hatred has been aimed at. Go and look at Wiggley's post once again, the one that I quoted. Replace the term "scouser(s)" with "Indian(s)" or "Black(s)" - and tell me how Wiggley's posts read. They would, without a shadow of a doubt, read as being deeply racist. What you will then contend is that scousers are not a "race" and that therefore, the hatred being exercised was not racist in the same way that it would be had it been exercised against a person with a certain colour of skin. In doing so, you simply underline your own racism, except, unlike the old bigots of the 70s that you referred to earlier, you don't even have the sense to see it.

The fact that you single out people with certain skin colours and ethnic backgrounds for special treatment is in itself racist. In doing so, you are discriminating towards or against people based on their ethnic backgrounds and skin colour. In other words, you differentiate between people based on their race. You do not view and treat all people, regardless of their race (however we define it), in a fair manner.

It is also telling that earlier you described me as being white, based on your incorrect assumption that I had been racist. Despite the fact that you know absolutely nothing of my skin colour or origins, you made that assumption. How racist of you. How do you know that I am not an English-born black man, or even an Indian who told Wiggley to "go home" simply because I am an enlightened being who was attempting to point out the irony of Wiggley's posting?

Whether or not "scousers" are a "race" is really beside the point, although in the way Wiggley has been referring to them, you could argue that he was using the term in that sense. The essential consideration is hatred towards others; that is the essential concern. That is why the UN and legal definitions apply it in that manner, because it isn't an objective of civilised humans to protect specific groups from hatred, but to protect all from it. The root cause of racism is after all, hatred. It is a real shame you do not understand the importance of this. You instead fall back on your own definition, which you claim is shared by 99.9% of people and which is based on your own racism.

You claimed earlier that the UN and legal definitions of racism are unimportant as "99.9% of people" understand it to be something else. Firstly, how on earth do you know what 99.9% of people think about the matter? Prey tell, sage, when did you discover your talents for prophecy? We have legal definitions of terms like racism for good reasons. It is so they can be applied in a rational manner in the courts and so that people like you cannot adapt them for convenience to try to win an argument.

You are nothing more than a white, middle class male (and I have seen your pictures, so I know what colour your skin is) who has identified other groups, having different skin colours and origins to you, as needing your special consideration. "Those poor, inferior, helpless people need to be protected from superior, white racists. I will stand up for them. They need me!" Your words betray your real feelings about the status of others, who are different to you. They cannot be treated fairly or equally because they need your help. It is the sort of patronising, vulgar and non-thinking attitude exercised by some on the political left who are blind to their own prejudices. The difference between you and the "classic bigots from the 70s" is that they at least knew they were being prejudiced and could potentially be reformed. You don't even understand your own thought processes.

You make disgraceful allegations against people without even having the decency to properly justify it. You misunderstand and misappropriate the legal, and therefore the, definition of words for your own purposes. You discriminate between people based on their skin colour and origins. You assume that whenever somebody is being racist, they must have white coloured skin. You believe, without realising you're doing it, that you are superior to other peoples and that they need your special consideration; you patronise people different to you. How deeply racist and stupid of you.

I suggest you go away, sit down, and really think about this one. Because frankly, as things stand, you are in no position to be making such grave accusations.

You completely miss the point when you focus on the types of people hatred has been aimed at. Go and look at Wiggley's post once again, the one that I quoted. Replace the term "scouser(s)" with "Indian(s)" or "Black(s)" - and tell me how Wiggley's posts read. They would, without a shadow of a doubt, read as being deeply racist.That's because black and Indian are different racial types. Liverpudlians are not. I've already mentioned that my saying "Brazilians are lazy" is not racist because they're not a racial group and many of them are of similar racial type to me. However if I said that "blacks are lazy" it would be racist. Frankly it was abundantly clear the first time around. I have no idea why you have such difficulty understanding such a simple concept!What you will then contend is that scousers are not a "race" and that therefore, the hatred being exercised was not racist in the same way that it would be had it been exercised against a person with a certain colour of skin. In doing so, you simply underline your own racism, except, unlike the old bigots of the 70s that you referred to earlier, you don't even have the sense to see it.These sentences are just total and utter rubbish.The fact that you single out people with certain skin colours and ethnic backgrounds for special treatment is in itself racist. In doing so, you are discriminating towards or against people based on their ethnic backgrounds and skin colour. In other words, you differentiate between people based on their race. You do not view and treat all people, regardless of their race (however we define it), in a fair manner.More gibberish.... If an insult is not feasably targetted at a particular racial/ethnic group then it's not racist. That doesn't mean it's not a slur but it's not a racist slur.It is also telling that earlier you described me as being white, based on your incorrect assumption that I had been racist. Despite the fact that you know absolutely nothing of my skin colour or origins, you made that assumption. How racist of you. How do you know that I am not an English-born black man, or even an Indian who told Wiggley to "go home" simply because I am an enlightened being who was attempting to point out the irony of Wiggley's posting?I find it unlikely that someone who may himself belong to a group subject to racism or calls to "go home" would come out with such an insensitive comment towards another. My impression of you is that of an old fashioned thuggish white racist - thoroughly unpleasant.Whether or not "scousers" are a "race" is really beside the point, although in the way Wiggley has been referring to them, you could argue that he was using the term in that sense.It's not beside the point at all when determining whether his comments are racist or not. It's all the point. Liverpudlians are not a racial or ethnic type and therefore his comments are not racist (unlike yours which were).The essential consideration is hatred towards others; that is the essential concern.Nonsense. The essential concern is hatred or discrimination towards others of a different racial/ethnic type. Geddit?That is why the UN and legal definitions apply it in that manner, because it isn't an objective of civilised humans to protect specific groups from hatred, but to protect all from it. The root cause of racism is after all, hatred. It is a real shame you do not understand the importance of this. You instead fall back on your own definition, which you claim is shared by 99.9% of people and which is based on your own racism.Every sentence here is total crap. First of all it wasn't "my definition". I gave definitions from no less than three leading dictionaries. None of them supported the UN's inclusion of the word "national" which I argued was legalistic. I argue that it's only right to include slurs against nationals if that that slur also crosses a racial/ethnic divide (as yours did did when you insulted Wiggley as an Indian). However all the other terms in the UN definition I fully agree with (eg "race", "ethnicity", "colour", "descent" etc). Note that Liverpudlians, as a group, fall outside any of the categories of target groups listed in the UN definition.You claimed earlier that the UN and legal definitions of racism are unimportant as "99.9% of people" understand it to be something else. Firstly, how on earth do you know what 99.9% of people think about the matter? Prey tell, sage, when did you discover your talents for prophecy? We have legal definitions of terms like racism for good reasons. It is so they can be applied in a rational manner in the courts and so that people like you cannot adapt them for convenience to try to win an argument.How much clearer can I make myself? Just how stupid are you?? I repeat:

In English law, and indeed in all Anglophone common law systems, the word "consideration" is one of the key concepts in the law of contract. It has been defined by centuries of case law and has a very precise meaning in the legal context. Does that mean that the legal profession now owns that word and monopolises its interpretation and understanding for everyone else? Does that mean that when ordinary people use it for their everyday purposes that they are, in fact, using it incorrectly? Of course not! As with "racism", you'll find that the dictionaries list the popular uses of the word first, and the legal definition comes way down in 8th place, where it belongs:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/consideration?o=0

Your UN definition of racism is not listed in the dictionaires at all which only suggests how uncommon and legalistic it is. "My" defintion, as you call it, is not mine at all. It's the one listed in the dictionary - and the dictionaries always prioritise the popular and common understandings. They never create definitions. They do not set themselves as master of the language. They strive merely to follow and reflect - never to lead. Theirs is the correct approach:


Oxford Dictionary: "racism"
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/racism?view=uk

1) the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race.
2) discrimination against or antagonism towards other races.


Cambridge Dictionary: "racism"
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=65090&dict=CALD

1) noun [U] (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialism) DISAPPROVING the belief that people's qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races.
2) noun [C] (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialist) DISAPPROVING someone who believes that other races are not as good as their own and therefore treats them unfairly.
3) adjective: "He furiously denied being racist." "They were the victims of a vicious racist attack."


Dictionary.com: "racism"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism?o=0

1) a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2) a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3) hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.You are nothing more than a white, middle class male (and I have seen your pictures, so I know what colour your skin is) who has identified other groups, having different skin colours and origins to you, as needing your special consideration. "Those poor, inferior, helpless people need to be protected from superior, white racists. I will stand up for them. They need me!" Your words betray your real feelings about the status of others, who are different to you. They cannot be treated fairly or equally because they need your help. It is the sort of patronising, vulgar and non-thinking attitude exercised by some on the political left who are blind to their own prejudices. The difference between you and the "classic bigots from the 70s" is that they at least knew they were being prejudiced and could potentially be reformed. You don't even understand your own thought processes.I am indeed white, male, and middle class. Congratulations on your correct identification of my species! However it's not patronising to dislike racists like you. It's not patronising to cut people like you down for making blatantly racist comments. Oh and by the way I'm not especially left wing. I'm a Thatcher-loving capitalist who supports the death penalty.You make disgraceful allegations against people without even having the decency to properly justify it.On the contrary calling you a racist is not disgraceful. It's true. You are a racist. I have justified and explained ad naseum.You misunderstand and misappropriate the legal, and therefore the, definition of words for your own purposes.Utter claptrap. A legal definition is NEVER the meaning of a word unless it 100% corresponds with the most popularly understood use of that word. That's why the legal definition of the world "consideration", one of the key concepts in law, appears in the humble 8th position in the dictionary list (behind no less than seven more popular variations and uses) and why none of the dictionary definitions of "racism" support the UN's inclusion of hostility towards national groups.You discriminate between people based on their skin colour and origins. You assume that whenever somebody is being racist, they must have white coloured skin. You believe, without realising you're doing it, that you are superior to other peoples and that they need your special consideration; you patronise people different to you. How deeply racist and stupid of you.What utter garbage. In fact I specifically gave the example of a black man making negative comments about blacks (or indeed any other racial or ethnic type) as an example of racism.I suggest you go away, sit down, and really think about this one. Because frankly, as things stand, you are in no position to be making such grave accusations.Sorry but no deep level of thought is required here. You made a blatantly racist comment and I called a spade a spade (ie you a racist). Deal with it. You owe Wiggley an apology.

Who is this guy? Sloyne?

Who is this guy? Sloyne?

who? Langur or Herr Rathbone? The latter is a good contributer in the Liverpool forum, he is not Sloyne. I think Sloyne, who is a pensioner, was quite laughably banned for threatening to beat up Wiggley, after wiggley told on him. I've no idea why Langur is getting involved defending someone who kept sniping and trolling away until he got a reaction off another forumer, just the same as he done with Sloyne. He's got another argument going again, and hes managed to drag it once more into the gutter. The fact that he trawls Liverpool's newspapers and his collection of spastistic websites for negative stories to post should be a good indicator of his obsessive mentality, the jealous little girl.

Wiggley's the one barrier that Leeds has from being constantly attacked on here. No one else has the balls to do it, including me. I can barely defend Opal 3. Woe betide the day when everyone can abuse Leeds without comeback.

Yo, I meant Herr - just wondered because his sign-up date wasnt long ago :) This race and racism 'debate' (:lol:) is really tiring to watch and just put me in mind of Sloyne in his final days here.

Gherkin, thats is so true actually. Wiggley is your (Leeds) buffer! :tongue4:

Wiggley's the one barrier that Leeds has from being constantly attacked on here. No one else has the balls to do it, including me. I can barely defend Opal 3. Woe betide the day when everyone can abuse Leeds without comeback.

by whom? Does sheffield get attacked? Does Bristol? Leeds didn't register with most forumers until his constant sniping and trolling!

Attack being the best form of wiggley's defence... his tactics of course have their drawbacks. It's nice to know that Herr Rathbone can post pictures of all of Leeds' back alleys and graffiti and tell everyone that they're Leeds' main shopping streets; and someone like wiggley is there to defend it.

Hmm yes it did. Loads. People hated it when Leeds was voted the UKs Favourite City; there were endless Leeds vs Manchester arguments.

That's because black and Indian are different racial types. Liverpudlians are not. I've already mentioned that my saying "Brazilians are lazy" is not racist because they're not a racial group and many of them are of similar racial type to me. However if I said that "blacks are lazy" it would be racist. Frankly it was abundantly clear the first time around. I have no idea why you have such difficulty understanding such a simple concept!These sentences are just total and utter rubbish.More gibberish.... If an insult is not feasably targetted at a particular racial/ethnic group then it's not racist. That doesn't mean it's not a slur but it's not a racist slur.I find it unlikely that someone who may himself belong to a group subject to racism or calls to "go home" would come out with such an insensitive comment towards another. My impression of you is that of an old fashioned thuggish white racist - thoroughly unpleasant.It's not beside the point at all when determining whether his comments are racist or not. It's all the point. Liverpudlians are not a racial or ethnic type and therefore his comments are not racist (unlike yours which were).Nonsense. The essential concern is hatred or discrimination towards others of a different racial/ethnic type. Geddit?Every sentence here is total crap. First of all it wasn't "my definition". I gave definitions from no less than three leading dictionaries. None of them supported the UN's inclusion of the word "national" which I argued was legalistic. I argue that it's only right to include slurs against nationals if that that slur also crosses a racial/ethnic divide (as yours did did when you insulted Wiggley as an Indian). However all the other terms in the UN definition I fully agree with (eg "race", "ethnicity", "colour", "descent" etc). Note that Liverpudlians, as a group, fall outside any of the categories of target groups listed in the UN definition.How much clearer can I make myself? Just how stupid are you?? I repeat:

In English law, and indeed in all Anglophone common law systems, the word "consideration" is one of the key concepts in the law of contract. It has been defined by centuries of case law and has a very precise meaning in the legal context. Does that mean that the legal profession now owns that word and monopolises its interpretation and understanding for everyone else? Does that mean that when ordinary people use it for their everyday purposes that they are, in fact, using it incorrectly? Of course not! As with "racism", you'll find that the dictionaries list the popular uses of the word first, and the legal definition comes way down in 8th place, where it belongs:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/consideration?o=0

Your UN definition of racism is not listed in the dictionaires at all which only suggests how uncommon and legalistic it is. "My" defintion, as you call it, is not mine at all. It's the one listed in the dictionary - and the dictionaries always prioritise the popular and common understandings. They never create definitions. They do not set themselves as master of the language. They strive merely to follow and reflect - never to lead. Theirs is the correct approach:


Oxford Dictionary: "racism"
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/racism?view=uk

1) the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race.
2) discrimination against or antagonism towards other races.


Cambridge Dictionary: "racism"
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=65090&dict=CALD

1) noun [U] (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialism) DISAPPROVING the belief that people's qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races.
2) noun [C] (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialist) DISAPPROVING someone who believes that other races are not as good as their own and therefore treats them unfairly.
3) adjective: "He furiously denied being racist." "They were the victims of a vicious racist attack."


Dictionary.com: "racism"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism?o=0

1) a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2) a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3) hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.I am indeed white, male, and middle class. Congratulations on your correct identification of my species! However it's not patronising to dislike racists like you. It's not patronising to cut people like you down for making blatantly racist comments. Oh and by the way I'm not especially left wing. I'm a Thatcher-loving capitalist who supports the death penalty.On the contrary calling you a racist is not disgraceful. It's true. You are a racist. I have justified and explained ad naseum.Utter claptrap. A legal definition is NEVER the meaning of a word unless it 100% corresponds with the most popularly understood use of that word. That's why the legal definition of the world "consideration", one of the key concepts in law, appears in the humble 8th position in the dictionary list (behind no less than seven more popular variations and uses) and why none of the dictionary definitions of "racism" support the UN's inclusion of hostility towards national groups.What utter garbage. In fact I specifically gave the example of a black man making negative comments about blacks (or indeed any other racial or ethnic type) as an example of racism.Sorry but no deep level of thought is required here. You made a blatantly racist comment and I called a spade a spade (ie you a racist). Deal with it. You owe Wiggley an apology.

I see you passed on the opportunity to...

please elaborate on how, precisely, I exercised any of the above [definitions of racism] in my postings. Bear in mind that what you are doing is making quite serious accusations; please state clearly and without any room for confusion, how I exercised hatred or intolerance of another race or other races in the way I addressed Wiggley. It is quite easy for you to discuss this sort of thing in a non-thinking manner, when really you should be very clear. It is a serious accusation and warrants a serious explanation.


You keep making nasty accusations despite having no proper basis for doing so. And you don't even have the intelligence to conceive that a white person might be the target of racism. Yes, of course, it can only apply to people with brown coloured skin pigments. Fool.

And yes, you are a bigot. You are racist. I think you need to have a long hard think about your behaviour and your views. You have been manipulative through out this "discussion" in an attempt to further your credibility. I'm afraid it has failed quite miserably. You are now on my ignore list.

And the sad thing is, the real thug in all of this, the bit of poison that started this whole thing, has slithered away, no doubt to return at some future date for more bigotted bating. I wonder if he will ever get around to apologising to the Liverpool forummers for his vicious attacks, and vile accusations of racism. They have barely raised their voices about it, which at least shows them in a good light.

Wiggley forms part of a long line of provincial mined trouble makers emanating from the Leeds forum. They obviously don't have enough to interest them on there. :ohno:

Attack being the best form of wiggley's defence... his tactics of course have their drawbacks. It's nice to know that Herr Rathbone can post pictures of all of Leeds' back alleys and graffiti and tell everyone that they're Leeds' main shopping streets; and someone like wiggley is there to defend it.

Take the blinkers off m8, Wiggleyleeds was posting page after page of repetitive shite laughing about liverpools "wallowing in poverty and self pity" population and the usual repetitive anti-scouse stuff long before Herr Rathbone became involved. People post stuff about Leeds BECAUSE of him.

I was actually planning on visiting leeds earlier this year but some of shite posted on here by wiggley and that other bigot DonWarrington/LeonardHenry/TonyYeboah put me off completely.

People post stuff about Leeds BECAUSE of him.

I was actually planning on visiting leeds earlier this year but some of shite posted on here by wiggley and that other bigot DonWarrington/LeonardHenry/TonyYeboah put me off completely.

Agreed, and I'm sorry to hear you didn't want to visit Leeds because of what he'd said. It's a lovely place, just as Liverpool, Manchester, Brum etc are. Each city has it's negatives and no one likes to hear them, especially time and time again from the same forumer(s). I haven't seen those usernames in a while... I presume they were banned?

Agreed, and I'm sorry to hear you didn't want to visit Leeds because of what he'd said. It's a lovely place, just as Liverpool, Manchester, Brum etc are. Each city has it's negatives and no one likes to hear them, especially time and time again from the same forumer(s). I haven't seen those usernames in a while... I presume they were banned?

those are the same person (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/member.php?u=102374) who has been repeatedly banned

This is exactly the reason why i dont waste my time on this Thread, becouse its really a waste of time. This whole thread should be scrapped and if somebody wants to talk down a city, then be big enough and say it on that cities Thread and then see what happens?????

good idea Brum X

:cheers:

No, don't ruin constructive threads. They are for debate and scepticism but not hate-fuelled arguments! It's nice to read arguments on here then wander into city threads to see photos and reading chilled out, content posts about cladding and such :)

Wiggley's the one barrier that Leeds has from being constantly attacked on here. No one else has the balls to do it, including me. I can barely defend Opal 3. Woe betide the day when everyone can abuse Leeds without comeback.

Wiggley is the worst advertisement for Leeds I have ever encountered. If I didn't know he was not from Leeds or if I took any of his bullshit in the slightest bit seriously, it would have a detrimental impact on my perceptions of your City. If you are happy about the way he talks for your City then so be it ... I personally think Leeds deserves better representation.

The things he says about Leeds are great - it's his attacks on the worst things about other cities that displease everyone on here so.

Wiggley is a tiresome tit. Leeds, although not at all anywhere close to being my favourite place in England, is by all means worth a visit. Disregard that spastic, and you will find a city that is a good day out. Not Manc, Scouse, or Sheffield by any stretch of the imagination, but a good day out all the same.

The things he says about Leeds are great - it's his attacks on the worst things about other cities that displease everyone on here so.

^^ aye, and thats wot all the city bashing thread is about. Naturally those on the receiving end (the scouse lot) will cry (or resort to racism ). Sadly, they all too commonly resort to personal attacks, be it with me, or most other forummers in all the city talk threads. Its quite comical watching them almost being parodies of themselves lol.

You usually know someone has lost an argument or discussion when they resort to pointless meaningless personal attacks, like an enraged incoherent acne ridden teenager - as dgnr8's post perfectly illustrates :)

I have always enjoyed my visits to Leeds but not everyone has personal experience to help erode perceptions that may present themselves here.

I have always enjoyed my visits to Leeds but not everyone has personal experience to help erode perceptions that may present themselves here.

exactly. If you were to judge liverpool solely by the forummers who come on to the city talk threads in here, you'd think liverpool was full of people who were angst ridden, whiney, insecure, wallowing, and forever bleating on about "liverpool's once great past" with huge chips on the shoulders. And of course people from liverpool are not like that at all. ;)

Wiggley, you actually come across as the most angst ridden, whiney, insecure, wallowing and bleating person on these forums. The fact that you seem unable to grasp that is truly ironic. ;)

So I'll put it simpley:

City

Bashing

Thread

(thanks helium ;))


Wiggley bashes cities in this thread so he's tecnically playing by the rules. People bashing wiggley should do so in the wiggley bashing thread.

So I'll put it simpley:

City

Bashing

Thread

(thanks helium ;))


Wiggley bashes cities in this thread so he's tecnically playing by the rules. People bashing wiggley should do so in the wiggley bashing thread.

True ... the thread was invented so that he would have a little corner to hide is narrow minded bigotry in. As I don't have the urge to condemn entire Cities or their populations to vitriolic hate, I will move onto other climes.

It's hilarious how the scouse lot on ere moan and whine and call all my statements about liverpool "trolling" - this is the city bashing thread. Anything else is off topic.

The sole purpose of this thread is to have a bit of a bash at other cities and engage in banter and a bit of provocation. If me posting legitimate newpaper article sources about the city's horrific deprivation was tiring, boring, and repetetive - why, time after time after time take the bait. No other group of forummers would continually whine, bleat, and bite in quite the same absurdly stereotypical comical manner. :)

I saw 2 ale fuelled tramps* fighting in Leeds once. It's how I think of the place to this day.


*average locals

The things he says about Leeds are great - it's his attacks on the worst things about other cities that displease everyone on here so.

it is the incessant nature of it that wears me down. I just wonder why he does it!

^^ I don't think anyone will ever know :)

I saw 2 ale fuelled tramps* fighting in Leeds once. It's how I think of the place to this day.


*average locals

ironically (and this is no word of a lie) many of the tramps and big issue sellers around leeds are infact scousers, or scotsmen).

ironically (and this is no word of a lie) many of the tramps and big issue sellers around leeds are infact scousers, or scotsmen).

RACIST

ironically (and this is no word of a lie) many of the tramps and big issue sellers around leeds are infact scousers, or scotsmen).

^^ Is that a joke,

or a joke sentence?

If (I reply) like, this. can you ) understand (itbetter). Wiggley?

The majority of tramps and big issue sellers in Bath are from Leeds. :)

I saw 2 ale fuelled tramps* fighting in Leeds once. It's how I think of the place to this day.


*average locals


I saw the same in Oxford Road Manchester the last time I was there. A local youth helpfully shouted "Put the bottle down you cunt!" at the better armed participant.

wiggley that better be true or you're in trouble! The phrase "(and this is no word of a lie)" made all our eyebrows rise. In fact mine are still going up.

A local youth helpfully shouted "Put the bottle down you cunt!" at the better armed participant.

That youth's got some respect then. A bottle's a huge advantage in a fight. One of those to head can knock you unconscious and cause quite serious brain damage, especially if they'd fallen and hit their head on the tarmac or the curve.

going back to tramps and big issue sellers, in Edinburgh quite alot are English, mostly cockneys - I think

what well travelled and diverse tramps we seem to have in the UK :)

There was a tramp who lived on a roundabout near Dudley who has apparently disappeared. My Dad drives past every day and says he hasn't seen him for ages. He wears tramp-like clothes, speaks in a tramp-like voice, smells quite badly and is quite rugged looking if anyone sees him. :)

wiggley that better be true or you're in trouble! The phrase "(and this is no word of a lie)" made all our eyebrows rise. In fact mine are still going up.



That youth's got some respect then. A bottle's a huge advantage in a fight. One of those to head can knock you unconscious and cause quite serious brain damage, especially if they'd fallen and hit their head on the tarmac or the curve.

All true, Gherkin. The lad and his pals were finding the whole spectacle to be very amusing though, I'll add.

Anyone who works in a hospital will tell you that most of the serious injuries in fights come from being knocked unconscious and falling over onto a curb or concrete. I guess there's a small part of all of us that really enjoys seeing two tramps fighting, but if only they did it on pads or mats...

There was a tramp who lived on a roundabout near Dudley who has apparently disappeared. My Dad drives past every day and says he hasn't seen him for a few weeks. He wears tramp-like clothes, speaks in a tramp-like voice, smells quite badly and is quite rugged looking if anyone sees him. :)

He was actually the Wolverhampton ring road tramp and he died a couple of years ago with much coverage on local news as he was Polish and they were trying to find his relatives. He had been living in his tent in the centre of the ring road for over 30 years I think!

30 years...bloody hell. Poor guy! What was the cause of his death?

Well.... he was about 85 and had been living outdoors for a few years. ;)

EDIT: Here's the article in The Guardian or all places. :D http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/oct/29/haroonsiddique

What was the cause of his death?

Run over?

I saw the same in Oxford Road Manchester the last time I was there. A local youth helpfully shouted "Put the bottle down you cunt!" at the better armed participant.

You sure the youth didn't say "Put the bottle down your cunt"?

I saw a knife stand off in New York once "fight like a man" one of the combatants shouted. They bounced around for ages without a single punch or slash being exchanged, I felt like I'd been let down, all the way to New York and they can't even do street violence as good as Leeds/mancs/tramps.

Here's the article in The Guardian or all places. :D http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/oct/29/haroonsiddique

Thanks Butters, I've joined the facebook group :happy:

talking of street violence, over the last 5 years, liverpool has witnessesed over *double* the amount of street violence of leeds, despite being half the size. :ohno:

it is shocking how travelling just a short distance to diferent cities within the UK, the nature and temperment of people, and their propensity to commit crime is totally diferent :dunno:

Its the same within london where i used to live. Visit one town centre within greater london and it feels worlds apart to a diferent town centre 15 minutes up the road where you can almost smell violence in the air - romford was like that

The way that i look at this, if your city does not have tramps, then its obviously not a proper city, becouse all big cities have tramps. Ive started now:bash: :bash:

talking of street violence, over the last 5 years, liverpool has witnessesed yada yada


I stopped reading as soon as I hit "witnessesed" :lol:

We've had some boss tramps over the years. Not so long ago a load of them mobbed up and built a little cardboard city under the crown courts, it was very sturdy and contained amenities and culture that put some towns* to shame.

* Leeds

You sure the youth didn't say "Put the bottle down your cunt"?

I saw a knife stand off in New York once "fight like a man" one of the combatants shouted. They bounced around for ages without a single punch or slash being exchanged, I felt like I'd been let down, all the way to New York and they can't even do street violence as good as Leeds/mancs/tramps.

You mean unlike Joey Barton and his Big Mac. Apparently he asked somebody to hold his MacDonald's bag before laying into the whole of the highstreet. I'm just glad no Japanese tourists were inolved. Heaven forbid.

Joey was a nice lad until he started mixing with mancs.

going back to tramps and big issue sellers, in Edinburgh quite alot are English, mostly cockneys - I think

what well travelled and diverse tramps we seem to have in the UK :)

I know an English tramp in Los Angeles and saw one by the UN in New York.
:D

I know an English tramp in Los Angeles and saw one by the UN in New York.
:D

did he start telling you about the beatles and his city's "glorious past" ?

did he start telling you about the beatles and his city's "glorious past" ?

You having a pop a Sloyne, lad?

where is sloyne anyway? despite his constant barage of insane ramblings, violent threats, and racist taunts, i miss him in a perverse way.

did he start telling you about the beatles and his city's "glorious past" ?

The one in LA lived on benches when he couldn't get a sofa. His father was a Cambridge professor and he went to public school.
The one in NY was from Manc I think.

where is sloyne anyway? despite his constant barage of insane ramblings, violent threats, and racist taunts, i miss him in a perverse way.

Bring Back Sloyne!

:lol:

He may be doing his annual snowbird drive from Toronto to St.Persburg, Florida.

talking of street violence, over the last 5 years, liverpool has witnessesed over *double* the amount of street violence of leeds, despite being half the size. :ohno:

it is shocking how travelling just a short distance to diferent cities within the UK, the nature and temperment of people, and their propensity to commit crime is totally diferent :dunno:

Its the same within london where i used to live. Visit one town centre within greater london and it feels worlds apart to a diferent town centre 15 minutes up the road where you can almost smell violence in the air - romford was like that

Major misinformation here from the Queen of stats.

Can't find a category for "street violence" but for 2007/08 Leeds and Manchester had 13,000 offences against the person, whilst Liverpool had 10,000. So Manchester, with a population similar but somewhat less than Liverpool, suffered almost a third more offences in this category, whilst Leeds came first with the most.

By the way, when it comes to Street Crime there can't be many more serious offences than that Opal Building. 20 years at least I'd say for that.

Opal's helping to regenerate a fairly crap area of Leeds. It's provided some of the best accomodation in the country to 550 students and so many people on here hate it because it's not world class architecture. Errr, it's student accomodation and it's 100% full. Job done.

Joey was a nice lad until he started mixing with mancs.

TOADY. Don't you mean mixing it with the Mancs. Here's Joey's latest gaff.

BAD boy Joey Barton knows he is facing a tide of abuse over his claims that he can become a more effective role model for kids than “squeaky-clean” David Beckham.

At least he gives an honest account of himself. To think I used to shout his name from the terraces. Where did it all going wrong Joey lad?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/s/1074285_barton_ill_be_a_role_model?rss=yes

Opal's helping to regenerate a fairly crap area of Leeds. It's provided some of the best accomodation in the country to 550 students and so many people on here hate it because it's not world class architecture. Errr, it's student accomodation and it's 100% full. Job done.

That Opal Building is an absolute travesty.

I drive along the gyratory every morning on my way to work and pass that thing. For months I have been thinking to myself "what the fuck is that monstrosity!?" It was only the other day I realised it is the much vaunted "Opal Building". Frankly, I think it would be best if we just pretend it isn't there. It is an embarassment. A big, horrid sore thumb of immensely cheap proportions.

The quality of cladding is woeful; the overall design and detailing is monstrous. This kind of shit is alright when it is 8 storeys in height and hidden away somewhere, but this must be approaching 30 storeys and is in an elevated position.

It just sums up everything that frustrates the hell out of me about Leeds. There is a certain greed about its ruling classes that has allowed so much low quality junk to be permitted, on a massive scale. This is the latest in a long line of crud. The stuff along the railway line is all horrid and will soon become the slums of the future. Even Bridgewater Place is a bit crap - it doesn't have the class of the Beetham buildings. The planners in Leeds seem to have the lowest standards when it comes to quality.

I weep for the future (of Leeds.)

You weep for these?

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z158/AlexW01/BLE_D061220acopy.jpg?t=1184943645



http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8ce02b3127ccec53b0785901700000040O01QZM2rhs4Yg9vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/



http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/2_canal%20basin_sketch_410.jpg

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/5_canal%20basin_model_410.jpg[

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/idenby/theplazanight.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Leeds/0007.jpg

http://www.carrerapropertyconsultancy.com/images/lumiere/leeds-investments.gif

http://www.carrerapropertyconsultancy.com/images/lumiere/lumiere-apartments.gif

http://www.carrerapropertyconsultancy.com/images/lumiere/lumiere-leeds.gif


You're mad! :tongue:

Major misinformation here from the Queen of stats.

Can't find a category for "street violence" but for 2007/08 Leeds and Manchester had 13,000 offences against the person, whilst Liverpool had 10,000. So Manchester, with a population similar but somewhat less than Liverpool, suffered almost a third more offences in this category, whilst Leeds came first with the most.

Try looking for official home office crime stats from their website

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/soti.html

Check out crime data for "violence against a person", taking in all crime data from 2003-2008 to even out annual fluctuations.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh78/danlad/buildings/crimestats.gif

By working out the crime rates per 1,000 population the crime rates are as follows:


manchester 217 crimes per 1000
liverpool 242 crimes per 1000
birmingham 172 crimes per 1000
Leeds 130 crimes per 1000
sheffield 107 crimes per 1000

As you can see, Liverpool has by far the highest crime rate for violence by quite a shocking margin. This is why Liverpool has a bad name for crime. There is no smoke without fire.

You are nearly twice as likely to get attacks and beaten up on a night out in liverpool than you are in leeds, sheffield, or birmingham.

:cheers:

No you're not.

TOADY. Don't you mean mixing it with the Mancs. Here's Joey's latest gaff.



At least he gives an honest account of himself. To think I used to shout his name from the terraces. Where did it all going wrong Joey lad?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/s/1074285_barton_ill_be_a_role_model?rss=yes

Joey's from bad stock, the last thing he needed was mixing it with mancs.

To be fair he may be on to something if he's sincere, he may be able to reach the people that sneer at the golden boy type role models.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa6/eyesparky/CrimeStats.png

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa6/eyesparky/CrimeStats2.png

Don't you love selective data manipulation? :)

No you're not.

erm OK! ;)

i'll beleive factual crime stat data from the home office, rather than your own unfounded subjective viewpoint. :ohno: Its the denial, and blinkers that keeps liverpool at the bottom.

erm OK! ;)

i'll beleive factual crime stat data from the home office, rather than your own unfounded subjective viewpoint. :ohno: Its the denial, and blinkers that keeps liverpool at the bottom.

:lol:

Don't you love selective data manipulation? :)

yes. both your charts do not disprove that liverpool has shockingly higher violence levels compared to leeds. its why liverpool has a bad name. street violence, yobs, and chronic and endemic drug problems. :ohno:


All your charts still shower liverpool to be shockingly higher in crime for all but burglarly.

:cheers:

Yep!

Leeds certainly is the Capital of CRIME, whilst Liverpool is the Capital of CULTURE. :)

^^Don't you mean Yob Culture? Is that why you’re sharing it with Stavanger whose residents ancestors were Viking raiders? I suppose they and Scousers have a shared history of robbery and pillaging. :shifty: :baeh3:

:runaway:

:)

:lol: its funny coz its true

...

It's funny, when I was at university, the gulf was breathtaking between the ease with which students in Liverpool and my university town, Sheffield, enjoyed living in their adopted cities and the climate of fear that my two mates who lived in Leeds experienced in that place. Never daring to enter a neighbourhood pub where they lived and scarsely entering the city centre. Hiding in their student ghetto.

One told me when I scoffed at his scarediness and reminded him of how even we Formby softies used to go anywhere and everywhere in Liverpool before we went to uni, "You've got to understand, Leeds is a scary city, it's not like Liverpool".

Students girls getting raped in Hyde Park; on one occasion a terrifying man on the run from the police blithely walked into their house and sat in their living room. "Put fucken telleh on!" "Erm, would you like a cup of tea, erm, Sir?" Jesus, and this was Headingley, the "nice" bit.

Leeds fans, the worst, most racist football hooligans in England, the "Tetley bittermen" pissed up city centre brawlers of the 70s and 80s, the experience of my friends in the nineties and the worrysome crimes figures commented upon by Rathers above. Leeds has always been a scary, violent, nasty, small-minded and racist place. It's not special in being like this, however, I'll be fair. Small Yorkshire market towns tend to be like this. In fact, Wakefield is even worse.

Jesus, the crime in Leeds is so high compared to Liverpool. And when you consider that the real population of Leeds is around 400,000 (stripping away Otley, Wetherby, Boston Spa, Garforth, Shadwell and numerous other large settlements that are completely separate from Leeds and therefore not, in reality, a part of it), the rate of crime in Leeds must be staggering.

I wonder if anybody on these forums has access to GIS software? I don't any more unfortunately, but I'm willing to bet that if you compared super output areas for Leeds and Liverpool, and reduced the administrative boundary of Leeds so it is similar in size to Liverpool's, the crime rate in Leeds would be far higher.

I know that this is the city bashing tread and I myself have made a comment on here before, but it annoys me when people talk crap. There does seem to be a issue with Leeds on the forum. I'm not sure if it is because of troll/wums but some people just talk rubbish. It seems some people on here seem to think that places like Bootle are part of Liverpool, Sutton Coldfield part of Brum, but Pudsey, Rothwell, and Morley are not part of Leeds because they were not in the county borough in 1970?

The City of Leeds has now got a population of 761,000. Any sensible person will say that Otley and even more so Wetherby are not really of Leeds, but that only reduces the population total by 35,000. That 400k (county borough) figure your talking about doesn't even include Horsforth. Shadwell is pushing it a bit mate. Administrative boundaries mean nothing. Only historic counties and nations do. Liverpool’s population is low due to small boundaries, but as some people constantly point out Leeds is full of fields, so the population doesn't inflate it a lot, unless they are counting cows. It could be argued that Leeds boundary is not accurately represented, as to fill in the gap, the NE corner (Wetherby) of the failed WY council area was just stuck onto Leeds. Leeds could and should possibly have incorporated more towns along the M62 such as Birstall instead, and Wetherby become part of Harrogate DC for example.

It's funny, when I was at university, the gulf was breathtaking between the ease in which students in Liverpool and my university town, Sheffield, enjoyed living in their adopted cities and the climate of fear that my two mates who lived in Leeds experienced in that place. Never daring to enter a neighbourhood pub where they lived and scarsely entering the city centre. Hiding in their student ghetto.

One told me when I scoffed at his scarediness and reminded him of how even we Formby softies used to go anywhere and everywhere in Liverpool before we went to uni, "You've got to understand, Leeds is a scary city, it's not like Liverpool".

Students girls getting raped in Hyde Park; on one occasion a terrifying man on the run from the police blithely walked into their house and sat in their living room. "Put fucken telleh on!" "Erm, would you like a cup of tea, erm, Sir?" Jesus, and this was Headingley, the "nice" bit.

Leeds fans, the worst, most racist football hooligans in England,

Having a laugh at some of the traditional stereotypes is fine, but some of the crap you've just written is out of order - rape etc :ohno:. Oh, and Leeds fans are not as bad as the media makes out. Every club has idiots in the past/present. Come to Elland Road - here are loads of Leeds fans from ethnic minorities. My lass comes with me sometimes and she's a Toffee with a soft spot Tranmere. Tranmere won at ER last season and her family came over to watch and cheer - No problems. Leeds fans only hit back at people to attack them. Like the other day at Millwall, and when we've played Man United in the past (Istanbul Reds banners and chants) - waving turkish flags and chucking Turkish delight at little kids. I bet if it was the other way round, it would have been all over the news. For christ sake, the chant 'always look out for turks carrying knifes' was voted best chant in one magazine. I've never ever in 17 years of going to Elland Road heard for example a chant about aeroplanes and would be appauled - remember, Leeds nearly had their own munich at stansted. George Best mins applause - Liverpool and City fans booed though it, yet it was only Leeds that was in the media. But why should they have applauded if they don't approve - not that he played for Man United but because he wasn't exactly a model citizen. Don Revie who played and manages both Leeds and England and didn't hurt a fly didn't have a minutes silence and nor did Billy Bremner - except at Leeds.

Like i said, i never come on here (possible 3 post including this one), but i see comments like that i get very offended.

There does seem to be a issue with Leeds on the forum. I'm not sure if it is because of troll/wums but some people just talk rubbish.

go through WiggleyLeeds post history and you can probably work out why a lot of ppl take issue with Leeds

^^ I was kinda hinting at that. I don't know why he does it because he writes some great and informative posts sometimes. As usual, it's a few people giving the majority a bad name. :bash:

Believe it or not, there is a stereotype of Yorkshiremen (and Leeds AFC fans in particular) of being thick, close-minded, racist bigots. In fact it's such a well-known lame and obvious stereotype that the balefully unfunny stereotype-monger Harry Enfield used it in one of his sketches. "He'll never play for Yorkshire!"

Joking about stereotypes is fine you think? Does this mean it's okay to make fun of such "Yorkshire" characteristics? In which case, my post was entirely acceptable you must think and I'm now lost as to what you're complaining about in my post.

Joking about stereotypes is fine?

Believe it or not, there is a stereotype of Yorkshiremen (and Leeds AFC fans in particular) of being thick, close-minded, racist bigots. In fact its such a lame and obvious stereotype and the balefully unfunny stereotype-monger Harry Enfield used it in one of his sketches. "He'll never play for Yorkshire!"

Does this mean it's okay to make fun of such "Yorkshire" characteristics? In which case, my post was entirely acceptable you must think so and so I'm now lost as to what you're complaining about in my post.

There are saying things as a joke, and saying them in a way that is obviously malicious and nasty and possibly offending.

Leeds whineing, victim mentality, delusion etc. there TSR.

Leeds whineing, victim mentality, delusion etc. there TSR.

Just a hint - must be all my scouse family and the scousers on here having an effect on me. :okay: :baeh3:

Oh, and my post whilst polemical, and obviously Wiggleyesque in its one-eyed bias, was nevertheless entirely factual. Girls were raped in Hyde Park and the uni authorities advised students not to cross it. My mate would make mile long detours to avoid it, despite it being right between his house and the university.

And Scary Leeds Man did make an uninvited tea time visit to my friends digs.

Oh, and my post whilst polemical, and obviously Wiggleyesque in its one-eyed bias, was nevertheless entirely factual. Girls were raped in Hyde Park and the uni authorities advised students not to cross it. My mate would make mile long detours to avoid it, despite it being right between his house and the university.

And Scary Man did make an uninvited tea time visit to my friends digs.

I know about it because it happened 3?? years ago while i was at University of Leeds. I just didn't think it was right to bring up. Hyde Park is a shit hole, there's no doubt about it - and I'd seriously ask why female students were crossing it alone? Thats just sensible. Thankfully i live in Roundhay so never go to hyde park.

What happened with the scary man? Did he get a brew, or was it a swift bundle out the front door?

BTW, liking the word Wiggleyesque! :lol:

This is more like 13 than three years ago, TSR, so the problem might be chronic. Hyde Park is right by the university, remember. Wiggley likes to boast about Leeds' great attraction for students (although I'd be astounded if he didn't go to one of the less prestiguous HE establishments and not U of Leeds). It's shocking to think that the city's best university has its campus adjacent to a lawless rape zone. Contrast with Sheffield's lovely Weston and Crookes Valley parks, next to Sheffield University's main campus.

The scary man took his leave at his own leisure a few terrifying minutes after his univited entry.

Roundhay Park is very nice btw. [Don't tell Wiggley but I actually don't mind Leeds. My posts are an attempt to show how somebody with Wiggley's lack of decency might approach describing his adopted city; assuming he hadn't been dropped on his head as an infant, that is.]

Anyway, you seem like a good egg, TSR, so sorry for any offense caused.

When the scarey man came in was Nick Ross on the telly going "now I don't want to alarm you but if you see this man (photofit picture) police are warning the public not to approach him.

The scarey man should have been given a taste of trab.

He preferred Eastenders. And he had the remote and so who going to argue?

My mate was a ponce even by Formby standards. Trabs? He probably wearing brown brogues at the time.

Its shocking to think that the city's best university has its campus adjacent to a lawless rape zone. Contrast with Sheffield's lovely Weston and Crookes Valley parks, right next to Sheffield University's main campus.

....
Anyway, you seem like a good egg, TSR, so sorry for any offense caused.

I only know about the one incident. I don't think it's really a lawless rape zone, but i certainly think that Leeds Uni really should take control of that area and develop it - it has so much potential. I think a lot of the areas issues are a result of it being such a student ghetto, where most students don't seem to give a damn about where they live and it just has evolved into a dump. Woodhouse Moor, the parks correct name, used to be quite grand. Leeds Met has really great grounds up in Headingley at Becketts Park (I'm doing Italian there part time and my misses did her masters there - her BA was at Uni of Sheff and you are right about Weston Park). I think it just shows how much LMU has come in the last few years, as the ex poly is really showing the redbrick where to go in the future.

Don't worry about it! :cheers1:

Yes, Leeds U should buy the park and build on it. Instant parkland campus. Keep it well lit and patrolled, as uni campuses always are, and it's cool.

People complain about building on parks but if no one uses the park as it is, there's no point in having it.

Talking about Sheff's parks, I must say that when I was there, there was some kind of sex beast reportedly on patrol in the Endcliffe Park/Botantical Gardens area whilst I lived in nearby Hunters Bar. I reckoned it might have been one of my housemates but did the police want to know about it? :ohno:

Well no that's not true, Hyde Park is heavily used- particularly in the summer.

By rapists. And Wiggley. These are two separate things. :yes:

Jesus, the crime in Leeds is so high compared to Liverpool.


err nope.. the tables above show that the crime rates for Leeds are shockingly a *lot lower* in every single catergory compared to Liverpool with the exception of burglary. And for the crime category that blights peoples lives in UK cities due to its high prevelance, and what gives liverpool its well deserved name... "Violent crime again a person" - Liverpool's crime rate is double that of Leeds. :ohno: This is why liverpool has such a bad name with regards to crime, because for the most visible and 'noticeable' type of crime category Liverpool is affected the worst out of all the core cities.


And when you consider that the real population of Leeds is around 400,000 (stripping away Otley, Wetherby, Boston Spa, Garforth, Shadwell and numerous other large settlements that are completely separate from Leeds and therefore not, in reality, a part of it), the rate of crime in Leeds must be staggering.

Firstly, stripping away all the areas you listed only removes 50,000 of the population bringing it to 711,000. However, if one was to get rid of every area of Leeds that is *not* part of its continuous urban sprawl ie including places like guisley, and yeadon as well, it brings Leeds population down to around 680,000, so you are wildly off the mark there.

Secondly, there is no crime stats for inner urban leeds, so the only way to get a comparison is to use a similar geographical urban/suburban mix for Liverpool to that of Leeds. The closest match (which is incidently quite acurate) is Liverpool-Sefton-Knowsly. This area includes urban and outlying rural towns in the same way as Leeds boundary does. Now looking at crime rates for this conurbation, Liverpool still has higher crime rates in all categories, *including* burglary. :lol: (this is probabaly because this type of bounded area includes sufficient suburban housing to bump up the burglary rates)

:cheers:

The largest and worst council estate in Europe - Seacroft - plus Gipton, Halton Moor, Burmantofts, Armley, Beaston - all massive, nasty areas strangling the city centre.

firstly, the worst council estate areas in Leeds (seacroft, gipton, middleton) all fall outside the inner urban old-boundary, that, out of delusion you claim to be leeds proper.

Secondly, Leeds' most deprived ward (Seacroft) is actually less deprived than half of all liverpool wards. Secroft isnt in the top 20 most deprived wards in the england, yet a third of Liverpool's wards are, with *the* most deprived ward in england still being in Liverpool.

you always lose :cheers:

shout me when you actually say something that is factually correct ;)

I see you passed on the opportunity to...

You keep making nasty accusations despite having no proper basis for doing so. And you don't even have the intelligence to conceive that a white person might be the target of racism. Yes, of course, it can only apply to people with brown coloured skin pigments. Fool.

And yes, you are a bigot. You are racist. I think you need to have a long hard think about your behaviour and your views. You have been manipulative through out this "discussion" in an attempt to further your credibility. I'm afraid it has failed quite miserably. You are now on my ignore list.

And the sad thing is, the real thug in all of this, the bit of poison that started this whole thing, has slithered away, no doubt to return at some future date for more bigotted bating. I wonder if he will ever get around to apologising to the Liverpool forummers for his vicious attacks, and vile accusations of racism. They have barely raised their voices about it, which at least shows them in a good light.

Wiggley forms part of a long line of provincial mined trouble makers emanating from the Leeds forum. They obviously don't have enough to interest them on there. :ohno:Christ! Do you actually believe the garbage you type? By what extraordinary logic can you accuse me of being the racist when it was you that posted an insulting image of Indian poverty, and then suggested to Wiggley that he "go home"!! And then you have the nerve to accuse me of being "manipulative"?? How the hell do you justify this to yourself!! :dunno:Wiggley has self hate issues because he is Indian.

Go home Wiggley

http://embarqblog.wri.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/india-train.jpg^^ Just look at what you post for chrissakes!! You're a racist little toerag!! If you had any manhood or sense of honour you would apologise to Wiggley for that.... :ohno:

...

:ohno:

Christ! Do you actually believe the garbage you type? By what extraordinary logic can you accuse me of being racist when it was you that posted an insulting image of Indian poverty, and then suggested to Wiggley that he "go home"!! And then you have the never to accuse me of being "manipulative"?? How the hell do you justify this to yourself!! :dunno:^^ Just look at what you post for chrissakes!! If you had any manhood or sense of honour you would apologise to Wiggley for that. :ohno:

You aren't the sharpest pin in the pin box are you Langur? Please stop misunderstanding and taking my posts out of context. Also, that picture of a train is not insulting - it is a photograph depicting the use of public transport in a third world country. Your Home Counties head is obviously too far up your arse to recognise that many people do live that way and that it is just normal - neither good nor bad, nor insulting, just normal.

And yes, you are racist. That is abundantly clear from your previous posts, as I have already explained. You are just too stupid recognise it.

How silly of me, I forgot to put you on ignore. Goodbye, bigot. :ohno:

Secondly, there is no crime stats for inner urban leeds, so the only way to get a comparison is to use a similar geographical urban/suburban mix for Liverpool to that of Leeds. The closest match (which is incidently quite acurate) is Liverpool-Sefton-Knowsly. This area includes urban and outlying rural towns in the same way as Leeds boundary does. Now looking at crime rates for this conurbation, Liverpool still has higher crime rates in all categories, *including* burglary. :lol: (this is probabaly because this type of bounded area includes sufficient suburban housing to bump up the burglary rates)

:cheers:

shout me when you actually say something that is factually correct ;)

Try not to get involved in your crap but you do rile me and are beginning to make me despise Leeds

Population Liverpool-Sefton-Knowsley 864,000 - burglaries 6561, per 1000 people / 7.6 , per 1000 households / 17.7

leeds 750,000- burglaries 8449 , per 1000 people/ 11, per 1000 households/ 27

Awayo is right; Leeds isn't a great place for students. Partly because there is a severe lack of any cultural facilities for them to enjoy (no art galleries in the city centre and only one small museum, which was opened last week... oh, and the kiddy-fest that is the Royal Armouries.) And as we all know - a severe problem with the quality of architecture and built environment. Also, has anybody seen the "cathedral" in Leeds? :lol: It makes the Manchester one look impressive.

Leeds City Art Gallery is a large art gallery in the city centre. A second gallery, the Henry Moore Institute is adjacent. There is a third art gallery on New Briggate.

So really what you're saying is that there are two museums in the city centre, one of which is a national museum. Thackary Medical Museum is just outside the city centre. There are 4 theatres- the Playhouse is the biggest producing theatre outside London, one of which is City Varieties and another is The Grand- home to the only Opera and Ballet company outside London.

Leeds, like most cities in the country that grew during the Victorian age, has a rich city centre architecturally. It largely escaped the mass redevelopment that hit Manchester with the Arndale or Birmingham with the Bullring, instead priding itself on the arcades and open air shopping streets.

Leeds' Anglican Cathedral is at Ripon. St. Annes Cathedral is a RC one which has been restored to a high standard. It is one of the best RC Cathedrals in the UK.

Also racism is completely unacceptable. Stop it.

Awayo is right; Leeds isn't a great place for students.

Leeds Uni is the most applied for university in the uk. And both manchester & leeds are the most applied for cities out of the provinces, both with the highest number of students by number and proportion too.

They must be doing something right ;)

Nightlife, restaurants, and sheer vibrancy and employment oppurtunities are what attract students to places like leeds and manchester, and what makes them avoid liverpool.

Partly because there is a severe lack of any cultural facilities for them to enjoy

I dont think anyone can dispute that liverpool does well culturally. The history of its "glorious past" is the only thing it has left, given its bleak future in every other aspect according to government studies, and so cultural heritage naturally will be its strength.

But to suggest Leeds has a severe lack of cultural facilitis in the city centre area is wide of the mark (again).

Leeds is also only city outside London to have both its own opera and ballet companies - the internationally acclaimed Opera North and Northern Ballet Theatre.

There is also the Leeds Grand Theatre, The Carriageworks Theatre, the City Varieties Music Hall, the Phoenix Dance Theatre, the West Yorkshire Playhouse, the Royal Armouries Museum, The City Museum, Thackery Museum, The Discovery Centre Museum, The City Art Gallery, the Henry Moore Institute Art Gallery, New Briggate Gallery, LoftArt, Stanley & Audrey Burton Gallery, Mio Modo Gallery, the Leeds Acadamy.

Students are constantly the victims of crime in Leeds

Im sure they are. Huge highly dense student areas are vulnerable to crime, but then Liverpool lacks the big university pull of places like leeds and manchester. And as said before, statistically, you are still much more likely to be the victim of crime in liverpool for every single crime category with the exception of burglarly.

:cheers:

you keep loosing lol

You aren't the sharpest pin in the pin box are you Langur?Relative to you I'm sharp as a razor.Please stop misunderstanding and taking my posts out of context.What context is that? some unknown context in which they're not blatantly racist?? :dunno:Also, that picture of a train is not insulting - it is a photograph depicting the use of public transport in a third world country.That's a convincing argument!! :hahano:Your Home Counties head is obviously too far up your arse to recognise that many people do live that way and that it is just normal - neither good nor bad, nor insulting, just normal.It's not normal. It's degrading and you deliberately chose an unflattering image of Indian poverty in order to insult Wiggley.And yes, you are racist. That is abundantly clear from your previous posts, as I have already explained. You are just too stupid recognise it.The only one whose previous posts have made clear his obvious racism are yours. You're a racist twat. Deal with it....

isnt Herr Rathbonee just TonyYeboah in disguise with a fake profile anyway?

Can a moderator IP check this?

Thin skinned bunch from Leeds aren't they ... a little constructive criticism and off they go whinging and whining ... ;)

^^ I wonder what dick-for-brains Langur could be posting. I do hope it isn't aimed at me as that would be rather cowardly and spineless given he knows I won't be replying. Yet more negative personality traits to add to the others.

:ohno:

isnt Herr Rathbonee just TonyYeboah in disguise with a fake profile anyway?

Can a moderator IP check this?I'm gonna complain to the mods. There's no way that kind of post should be acceptable on this forum. I've been brigged for less!!

Thin skinned bunch from Leeds aren't they ... a little constructive criticism and off they go whinging and whining ... ;)


err there is a huge diference between whining that its untrue that scouseland is poverty stricken (when infact this is factually correct), compared to pointing out that someone has made a mistake in asserting that there are no art gallries in the city centre (when infact there are over 4)

you lose again

:cheers:

Very thin skinned Wiggley ... not surprising really ... something tells me that you have never actually experienced winning in any real sense of the word. Go on, get out in the real world and actually give life a go ... you may be pleasantly surprised.

this is a city bashing thread not a member bashing thread....

Leeds Cathedral...

http://dioceseofleeds.org.uk/cathedral/images/LC-P4-Heritige-CMYK.jpg

:lol:

Very thin skinned Wiggley ... not surprising really ... something tells me that you have never actually experienced winning in any real sense of the word. Go on, get out in the real world and actually give life a go ... you may be pleasantly surprised.

ahah.. the typical scouse-forrummer response - being unable to counter what I have said with regards to liverpool you ignore challenging my statements, and instead go in for an irrelevent meaningless personal attack in an attempt to divert the discussion. :lol:

This is why you lose yet again (4th time now) :cheers:

Leeds Cathedral...

its already been conceeded that Liverpool has signifiantly more culture.. even the independent has written an article about it

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh78/danlad/buildings/liv66.gif


:lol:

Leeds Cathedral...

http://dioceseofleeds.org.uk/cathedral/images/LC-P4-Heritige-CMYK.jpg

:lol:

There are market towns with bigger churches than that... like Selby.

:lol:

Having previously liked the city of Leeds I now realise that it is full of complete fucking idiots and will now consider it a place to denigrate at every opportunity. As others in this thread, I will keep all bigoted, narrow minded comments firmly focused on the City of Leeds which is a narrow minded shithole and will not mention the individuals that have given me this impression at all. If at any time I feel in the slightest bit affronted, I will run to a mod and whinge at every opportunity and play the victim even if I am neck deep in vindictive shit stirring ... I will play the victim and expect the full and immediate protection of the mods.

Having previously liked the city of Leeds I now realise that it is full of complete fucking idiots and will now consider it a place to denigrate at every opportunity. As others in this thread, I will keep all bigoted, narrow minded comments firmly focused on the City of Leeds which is a narrow minded shithole and will not mention the individuals that have given me this impression at all. If at any time I feel in the slightest bit affronted, I will run to a mod and whinge at every opportunity and play the victim even if I am neck deep in vindictive shit stirring ... I will play the victim and expect the full and immediate protection of the mods.

whhooOOooooOO lol. someones a bit rattled aint they. :lol:

maybe you are depressed....

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh78/danlad/buildings/liv888.gif

ahah.. the typical scouse-forrummer response - being unable to counter what I have said with regards to liverpool you ignore challenging my statements, and instead go in for an irrelevent meaningless personal attack in an attempt to divert the discussion. :lol:

This is why you lose yet again (4th time now) :cheers:

If you considered that a personal attack you need to get out more ... although living in a violent, crime ridden shit hole like Leeds it is no wonder you cower indoors so much.

...

... although living in a violent, crime ridden shit hole like Leeds it is no wonder you cower indoors so much.

lol u really are upset. Leeds may be crime ridden and violent, but according to the official home office data you even cited yourself, Liverpool is twice as crime ridden and violent/ No wonder people are leaving in their tens of thousands annually. Fleeing, clambering to get out.

Many, in an evil twist of irony, flee to manchester, the north west capital, and largest most successful city on the mersey. :lol:

It is funny you should say this because I never hated Leeds the way I do now until I encountered Leeds forummers on this website.

I never, ever had a bad thing to say about the place until I saw what a certain member was posting about other places. I now feel the need to attack every last fault Leeds has in return. And at the end of the day, there is a whole treasure trove of stuff to dig out.

To be fair to the normal Leeds forummers though (i.e. the ones actually from Leeds), they tend to be alright.

It is just one, sad fuckwit creating a lot of enemies for the place. Every time this person tries to big up "his" city by denegrating others, he just gives an extra person reason to point out every last fault in Leeds. And I wouldn't mind, but would you or I have been bothered had we not been provoked? Talk about counter productive!

Now, back to that "cathedral".. :lol:

I was being ironic ... a few idiots would not actually change my perception of a city I enjoy through actual life experience. :) I don't actually consider our favourite Leeds resident to be an enemy just a sadly misinformed shit stirrer ... the poor sod must have real issues to be honest and I have never been one to kick a dog when it is down.

lol u really are upset. Leeds may be crime ridden and violent, but according to the official home office data you even cited yourself, Liverpool is twice as crime ridden and violent/ No wonder people are leaving in their tens of thousands annually. Fleeing, clambering to get out.

Many, in an evil twist of irony, flee to manchester, the north west capital, and largest most successful city on the mersey. :lol:

Say it as often as you want but it does not stack up ... by your reckoning Westminster would be one of the worst crime ridden piss holes in the country when divided by the residents of Westminster. Violent crime is worse in Leeds ... it is improving but not at the rate that it is in other cities in the country such as Liverpool, which has been having some real breakthrough success in this area. Maybe Leeds could learn a lesson or two ... as I am sure that the respective Chief constables are not as narrow minded as some here they will be sharing information about what is working and what is not and hopefully finding solutions to make all our lives better (one would hope anyway :ohno:).

I was being ironic ... a few idiots would not actually change my perception of a city I enjoy through actual life experience. :)

exactly. if liverpool was judged by some of the commets of liverpool forrumers on here, liverpool would have a ready bad name in the media. and it doesnt ;)

Say it as often as you want but it does not stack up ...

maybe you should wite to the government's home office if you think the official crime stats that shockingly show liverpool to have the most crime out of the main core cities is somehow incorrect.

exactly. I mean, if people judged liverpool by the forrumers on here, liverpool would be known as a city full of angry, whining, angst ridden people with an incredibley huge chip on their shoulder, who bleat on about the beatles and of a forgettin time when liverpool was actually sucesful. And we all know that liverpool people are not like that at all in real life






;)

lol

I have only encountered people from Leeds that meet your above description on these forums.

maybe you should wite to the government's home office if you think the official crime stats that shockingly show liverpool to have the most crime out of the main core cities is somehow incorrect.

I actually did look at the Home Office stats Wiggley ... without an agenda. You should try it some time.

I have only encountered people from Leeds that meet your above description on these forums.

"I know you are, but what am I?"

C'mon you can do better than than. Please just try, ^^ why not compare Liverpool's with Leeds' Cathedrals, you can get him on that one.

"I know you are, but what am I?"

C'mon you can do better than than. Please just try, ^^ why not compare Liverpool's with Leeds' Cathedrals, you can get him on that one.

oh shush you! :P lol

dont be pointing them in the direction of common sense. Its far more fun seeing them split hairs and have epileptic fits in front of their stolen laptops

I could get him on countless things but I don't actually have a pathological hate issue.

I could get him on countless things but I don't actually have a pathological hate issue.

really? All your replies (stereotypically like all the liverpool forrumers on here) seem to focus on meaningless pointless personal attacks, rather than attempting to counter anything said about liverpool.

This pathological inability to see or acknowledge liverpool's flaws and faults is arguably the biggest reason why liverpool is still failing to compete with the other core cities, despite billions given in EU AID.

To take an example, if liverpool was 100% inhabited by mancunians, with ambitious and defeatist manchester people running its councils, offices, government departments, and businesses.. Liverpool today would be a completely diferent city. A thriving success, with companies scrambling to set up offices there, determined and competetive agencies winning contracts and investment deals, and a growing attractive city, rather than a declining port town sustaining itself on EU aid and government handouts, with little private investment, like a slightly larger vertsion of hull (as the latest thinktank policy exchange document suggests).

I like Liverpool architecturally but both of the cathedrals are totally overrated (at least from the outside). The Catholic concrete wigwam thing is pretty inside, I love the stained glass, but vile from the outside. The Anglican one is a great dark oppressive lump of a thing. It has none of the grace, beauty, soar, and inspiration of real gothic.

I have not attacked you personally Wiggley but you keep churning out the tired, trite horse shit and carry on with the typical victim mentality it seems people of Leeds now have. Perhaps you actually hate Leeds and that is why you enjoy bringing peoples focus on to the City in such a negative way. Whatever the case I can't say I am particularly arsed, if you are content to remain in the tiny, limited mentality you often exhibit here, for all time, then more fool you.

I have not attacked you personally Wiggley but you keep churning out the tired, trite horse shit and carry on with the typical victim mentality it seems people of Leeds now have. Perhaps you actually hate Leeds and that is why you enjoy bringing peoples focus on to the City in such a negative way. Whatever the case I can't say I am particularly arsed, if you are content to remain in the tiny, limited mentality you often exhibit here, for all time, then more fool you.

again, diversionary meaningless name-calling tactics completely ignoring any of the discussion below:

This pathological inability to see or acknowledge liverpool's flaws and faults is arguably the biggest reason why liverpool is still failing to compete with the other core cities, despite billions given in EU AID.

To take an example, if liverpool was 100% inhabited by mancunians, with ambitious and defeatist manchester people running its councils, offices, government departments, and businesses.. Liverpool today would be a completely diferent city. A thriving success, with companies scrambling to set up offices there, determined and competetive agencies winning contracts and investment deals, and a growing attractive city, rather than a declining port town sustaining itself on EU aid and government handouts, with little private investment, like a slightly larger vertsion of hull (as the latest thinktank policy exchange document suggests).

The Anglican one is a great dark oppressive lump of a thing
WHAT?!!

Wiggley, you are being less than entirely open ... I responded to your post as you were busy adding fatuous nonsense to the end of yours. I suppose an appropriate response to your fatuous nonsense would be that if Leeds was populated by people with eyesight then they would not have spent so much of their time building endless generic crap over the last decade. Now, I am off to the pub to socialise with erudite, interesting and fun friends in a vibrant city filled with fun and enjoyment. I hope the endless bigoted violence of your city does not deter you from doing the same.

Now, I am off to the pub to socialise

no comment..

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh78/danlad/buildings/liverpool/liv756.gif


:ohno:



:lol:

Leeds unemployment figures rocket

Published Date: 15 October 2008
By Nigel Scott
The number of people out of work in Leeds has jumped by almost 1,500 in just three months - double the national average.
New figures show 14,165 people were claiming the job seeker's allowance in the city in August - a 12 per cent rise from 13,384 in July and 12,689 in June.

And in a double-whammy for the regional economy, the total number of jobless people - including people on disability benefits - in the Yorkshire and Humber region has rocketed upwards by 17,000 in the three months to August.

The August figure for Leeds is the highest for two years. Apart from April and July 2006, the last time the figure breached the 14,000 barrier was back in 2000/2001.


:ohno:

WHAT?!!It's dark right? I mean compare the stone colour to that of a real gothic cathedral like Lincoln, Canterbury, Salisbury, Westminster Abbey etc. It's also a clumsy graceless design compared to the aforementioned cathedrals, and with its plain castle-like walls mounted high up on the hill it has an oppressive air. I really don't know why some Liverpudlians bang on about it so much. It may be big, and it may have been expensive, but there are dozens of finer buildings in Liverpool and dozens of finer cathedrals in Britain.

:lol:

I like Liverpool architecturally but both of the cathedrals are totally overrated (at least from the outside). The Catholic concrete wigwam thing is pretty inside, I love the stained glass, but vile from the outside. The Anglican one is a great dark oppressive lump of a thing. It has none of the grace, beauty, soar, and inspiration of real gothic.

There's something in that.

There's nothing wrong with going to the pub wiggley:cheers:

There are market towns with bigger churches than that... like Selby.

:lol:

As LN1 previously stated, that is the Catholic catherdal - which was a replacement as the original cathedral was knock down to widen the headrow!

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/discover/images/20031111_679860414.jpg

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/discover/images/20031111_370473207.jpg

Leeds has always shared its diocese with Ripon, so this is technically Leeds Protestant Cathedral:

http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/ripon/ripon-cathedral-4644.jpg

http://robertarood.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/ripon-cathedral.jpg

It's dark right? I mean compare the stone colour to that of a real gothic cathedral like Lincoln, Canterbury, Salisbury, Westminster Abbey etc. It's also a clumsy graceless design compared to the aforementioned cathedrals, and with its plain castle-like walls mounted high up on the hill it has an oppressive air. I really don't know why some Liverpudlians bang on about it so much. It may be big, and it may have been expensive, but there are dozens of finer buildings in Liverpool and dozens of finer cathedrals in Britain.

fully agree. There has been a tendencu in Liverpool to talk up any building that was built, for example, the way soem used to wank over Commutation Row, simply because it was in Liverpool!!!!

The Anglican is overwhelming, has some real records, but it is big, dark and red, being made from local sandstone!


Imagine wiggs, ALL of your work is for nothing, absolutely nothing.. sad lad!





If the recession keeps up then I imagine Leeds will soon be desperately looking at howe many more scousers start business and lioners. Real enterprise, rather than waiting for the ephemeral value of 'inward investment'. Liverpool found out the folly of that tactic in the mid 70s'

fully agree. There has been a tendencu in Liverpool to talk up any building that was built, for example, the way soem used to wank over Commutation Row, simply because it was in Liverpool!!!!

The Anglican is overwhelming, has some real records, but it is big, dark and red, being made from local sandstone!


Imagine wiggs, ALL of your work is for nothing, absolutely nothing.. sad lad!





If the recession keeps up then I imagine Leeds will soon be desperately looking at howe many more scousers start business and lioners. Real enterprise, rather than waiting for the ephemeral value of 'inward investment'. Liverpool found out the folly of that tactic in the mid 70s'

What absolute bull shit.



I am not 100% sure of the Leeds figures, but I am sure I red recently that Liverpool has (by far) the lowest VAT registrations, and the lowest number (by a long way) of patents (per head) than any of the other core cities.

http://www.ideopolis.info/downloads/ideopolis_dp01.pdf discuss.

I was talking with my friend the other night, who is also British, about the best place for financial jobs in the North. He is from Oswestry and was thinking that Manchester is still the financial centre in the North. I was arguing with him that Manc is more about media and higher education and that Leeds progress as a financial and legal centre is more impressive.
Do I earn any awards for this Wiggley?
:tongue2:

Regarding the Anglican Cathedral. It's a weird beast, not really a gothic building at all, although it has some references to this style. It's streamlined, almost industrial lines are bordering on Art Deco and are reminiscent of its architect, Giles Gilbert Scott's famous power stations at Bankside and Battersea. Comparing it to the country's mediaeval cathedrals is rather lazy. Liverpool is a very C20th building in its way. It's not beautiful in the manner of the genuine Gothic, Romanesque and Perpedicular cathedrals are; its strengths are in its scale and, as Monkey alludes to, its huge brooding presence over the south end of Liverpool city centre atop St James' Mount. My difference is that I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.

John Cornelius, in his memoir, Liverpool 8, likens it to a gigantic head upon gargantuan shoulders looming behind you as you walk past it at night.

I've just dug out my copy: "You can't escape the vast, black malevolent silhouette of this monstrous thing rearing up out of the solid rock". Brilliant. I love it, it's like having Minas Morgul in the neighbourhood, but I would never call the church pretty.

http://www.ideopolis.info/downloads/ideopolis_dp01.pdf discuss.

I know Tom canon and I know about those 'figures'!

I say we should leave this issue for 12 months!

I did post this the other day though... which elicited NO commets! Strange.
http://www.ft.com/cms/15998eca-9395-11dc-a884-0000779fd2ac.html?_i_referralObject=872920135&fromSearch=n





I don't see how anyone cannot like the Catholic cathedral in Liverpool, unless they are hidebound by notions of old fashioned architecture!

Tom Cannon. He should do stand up.

http://www.ideopolis.info/downloads/ideopolis_dp01.pdf discuss.

its out of date, and authored by Tom "Sky Sports" Cannon

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f376/willowmeister/MrT.jpg

:lol: Tom Canon has some good ideas, on enterprise and wealth creation at least, but that report was aimed at geting loads of money for him to put enterprise support in place across the city. It was a report that was part of part of a wider prospecting bid for funds. As everyone knows, when you are on the cadge it pays to hugely over exagerate the problems. Sadly, it didn't work. LCC being dertermined to go down teh Leeds/manchester path of dependence on the wealth creation of other cities to pass some on for a while (like till the next recession... er, like the one we are going into now..... bye, bye Leeds!)

Cotton was king. Urban renewal was king. Media will be king. The king is dead! Long live the king!

Taken from the EU's urban audit, here is a list of the UK's largest cities ranked by local authority underbounding:

Manchester - 1:5.81
Newcastle - 1:3.92
Leeds - 1:3.33
Liverpool - 1:3.07
Glasgow - 1:3.02
Nottingham - 1:3
Bristol - 1:2.56
Sheffield - 1:2.47
Birmingham - 1:2.38
Edinburgh - 1:1.74
London - 1:1.60

what does that mean? Can you elaborate?

I thought leeds was not under bounded :dunno:

*confused*

you got the link too? :crazy:

Manchester is deffinatley the most under bounded tho

It's the ratio between the number of people in the largest local authority area to the wider metroplitan area, using the EU's interpretation. Quite bizarre.

what does that mean? Can you elaborate?

I thought leeds was not under bounded :dunno:

*confused*

you got the link too? :crazy:

Manchester is deffinatley the most under bounded tho

Figures are taken from urbanaudit.org

The same cities ranked by GDP per capita:

Edinburgh - €31,812
London - €31,136
Bristol - €30,665
Glasgow - €24,660
Manchester - €23,672
Birmingham - €22,820
Newcastle - €21,968
Leeds - €21,247
Sheffield - €19,727
Liverpool - €18,331

The figure for Nottingham is unknown.

The Anglican one is a great dark oppressive lump of a thing.

How could you possibly find this svelte little number dark and oppressive?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/150/383649100_26e6d296a8.jpg?v=0

Careful what ye say lest ye be smited :lol:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3076/2562600218_ae076e6340.jpg?v=0

(Pictures from flickr by Pete Carr and Sarah Cartwright)

It's dark right? I mean compare the stone colour to that of a real gothic cathedral like Lincoln, Canterbury, Salisbury, Westminster Abbey etc. It's also a clumsy graceless design compared to the aforementioned cathedrals, and with its plain castle-like walls mounted high up on the hill it has an oppressive air. I really don't know why some Liverpudlians bang on about it so much. It may be big, and it may have been expensive, but there are dozens of finer buildings in Liverpool and dozens of finer cathedrals in Britain.
That's as well as maybe, but it still doesn't alter the fact that you're completely and utterly wrong about it. :yes:

what does that mean? Can you elaborate?

I thought leeds was not under bounded :dunno:

*confused*

you got the link too? :crazy:

Manchester is deffinatley the most under bounded tho

Leeds is overbounded in terms of it built up area- but in terms of the larger metropolitan area I guess it aint.
Glad to see Newcastle is at number 2, the under bounding in terms of built up area and overall metropolitan area badly attracts business to the city- Newcastle City itself only has a pop. of 280,000- but in reality the larger met area in just under 1m- when business looking for big enough markets or enough workforce they can, imo, look at Newcastle and think it is too small as stats say Ncl is so small.

^^I think Leeds is over bounded to the NE, and under bounded to the south. Like you said, in terms of the larger metropolitan area it isn't over bound. I'm sure most Loiners and other local people think that areas around Birstall and alike are more part of Leeds than Wetherby, which should have been put into Harrogate.

Although, with the amount of development going on up the A58, villages joining to one another and a 30mph speed limit up most of it due to the linear layout and distribution of the villages, (just look at what is now Bardsey cum Rigton!) it's probably not long until there is continuous development all the way up through Wellington Hill, east of Shadwell, Scarcroft, Badsey cum Rigton to at least Collingham.

The Anglican one is a great dark oppressive lump of a thing. It has none of the grace, beauty, soar, and inspiration of real gothic.

disagree

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3053/2983160819_ccdf947bc0_b.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3137/2980764257_1b8fd48ba2_b.jpg

pictures by I.carus

Although, with the amount of development going on up the A58, villages joining to one another and a 30mph speed limit up most of it due to the linear layout and distribution of the villages, (just look at what is now Bardsey cum Rigton!) it's probably not long until there is continuous development all the way up through Wellington Hill, east of Shadwell, Scarcroft, Badsey cum Rigton to at least Collingham.

Probably so; the same has happened on the A65 route and to a lesser extent, the A58 southwest. I expect there will be some major development in terms of offices parks and housing estates along the new A63 to the M1. A site of the new town for Leeds practically filled the remaining space between Micklefield, Garforth and Austhorpe.

Birstall definitely feels like part of Leeds; I would say it's success and behaviour is more linked to Leeds than Dewsbury. Being at the end of the M621 has really established it as part of the city; one of the easiest places to get to by road from the City Centre. I think most shops at Birstall's retail park advertise themselves as 'Leeds'- I know Ikea and Showcase Cinema do.

There is no smoke without fire...

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-187020385.html

:ohno:





:lol:

There is no smoke without fire...



More misinformation eh? Its actually Newcastle, and the sample size is laughable. They only tested commuters at bus stops outside a train station in 5 cities.

Commuters' hands were swabbed at bus stops outside five train stations around the UK (Newcastle, Liverpool, Birmingham, Euston and Cardiff).

In Newcastle and Liverpool, men were more likely than women to show contamination (53% of men compared to 30% of women in Newcastle, and 36% of men compared to 31% of women in Liverpool)


Newcastle - men 53%, women 30%
Liverpool - men 36%, women 31%
Birmingham - men 21%, women 26%
Cardiff - men 15%, women 29%
Euston (London) - men 6%, women 21%

The report concludes that the further north you go, the dirtier hands you will find. Isn't Leeds more northerly than Liverpool?

Them london ladies are a dirty lot. :ohno:

Them london ladies are a dirty lot. :ohno:

and their men are a bunch of poncey gets ;)

Pah, they'll be telling us to wipe our arses after a cack next.

and their men are a bunch of poncey gets ;)North(west)ern men are just surly envious losers with a macho hangup. ;)

North(west)ern men are just surly envious losers with a macho hangup. ;)

Them frilly nylon panties riding up a bit tight there Langur, me ole' cocker? You could use some of your hand cream to resolve the chaffing problem. ;)

Them frilly nylon panties riding up a bit tight there Langur, me ole' cocker? You could use some of your hand cream to resolve the chaffing problem. ;)Why not tell your flatcapped unemployed mates down at your filthy local of your panty fetish and nylon fantasies? I'm sure they're very broad minded gentlemen and will be very supportive and understanding. ;)

Why not tell your flatcapped unemployed mates down at your filthy local of your panty fetish and nylon fantasies? I'm sure they're very broad minded gentlemen and will be very supportive and understanding. ;)

:lol: Mistaken identity eh? My advice to you is to spray your perfume away from the eyes, and also keep the face cream away from them too. If you really insist on putting make up on, use of a mirror will cut down on eye accidents.

:lol: Mistaken identity eh? My advice to you is to spray your perfume away from the eyes, and also keep the face cream away from them too. If you really insist on putting make up on, use of a mirror will cut down on eye accidents.It sounds like you need move down to the sinful South Yoshef. They don't tolerate your kind up there! Haven't you seen Billy Elliot? ;)

It sounds like you need move down to the sinful South Yoshef. They don't tolerate your kind up there! Haven't you seen Billy Elliot? ;)

...reminds me of this
YPSzPGrazPo

Cotton was king. Urban renewal was king. Media will be king. The king is dead! Long live the king!Think of all the dingy brick chimneys you'll be able to build with all that new media wealth! :nuts:

Think of all the dingy brick chimneys you'll be able to build with all that new media wealth! :nuts:

Nothing you type can can upset me ATM Monkey Boy! It's win, win, win for the Mill Town and I've just got a free Sony C905. :wink2:

BTW. If your lucky, very lucky, we might let you have BBC Sport to cover the Olympiss in 2012.

Chin up! :lol:

^ Manchester's like Barcelona right? ;)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1104/557044056_26d15912c2.jpg?v=0 http://www.studylanguages.org/images/barcelona/barcelona2.jpg

It always make me laugh when people say that "Manchester has character". It's like saying that a girl has a "nice personality". :laugh:

Ironically the picture you just posted is in the middle of Manchester's most vibrant district. Around Oxford road and Chinatown. I guess you just googled "chimney manchester". Unrecognized of course, shows your hang-ups are at best a little off.

My advice would be - in future to make effort and find a picture of a chimney in Middleton or something.

London isn't allowed in city bashing! That's not fair! :lol:

Ironically the picture you just posted is in the middle of Manchester's most vibrant district. Around Oxford road and Chinatown. I guess you just googled "chimney manchester". Unrecognized of course, shows your hang-ups are at best a little off.

My advice would be - in future to make effort and find a picture of a chimney in Middleton or something.It says something that "Manchester's most vibrant district", as you say, features a dog-ugly industrial brick chimney as its architectural centrepiece. :laugh:

What does it say?

It says something that "Manchester's most vibrant district", as you say, features a dog-ugly industrial brick chimney as its architectural centrepiece. :laugh:

So what? its a sign of Manchester’s great past, a great past that helped fuel the British empire, besides, Manchester has done well for itself over the past decade or so, everyone knows that, regardless of what style the historic buildings are.

A matter of opinion.

Quite a nice chimney, it's fair to say.

A useful, finished, chimney as well.

Not some half baked, heroin addicts unfinished, concrete carbuncle then?

Obviously I quite like it really but I hate that Monkey idiot who seems to hate all things Manchester, which is actually a blessing

Isaac once had the idea to make that mill into some sortof art space. A Tate modern breed of conversion - I'm thinking design museum.

http://www.oliver-wood.co.uk/images/fac115.jpg

The red brick in that pic Monkey posted is really nice, I'm not so keen when it's used on red brick terraces you get in the city (but it may be a different brick?) but when they're on buildings like that it's very nice indeed :drool:

Aye well that whole area is like 80-90% brick buildings. The city's original warehouse district. Very pretty imo. Maybe some more trees and a stripping back of tarmac needed -

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1003/1484900701_c317b9db1c_b.jpg

You can see Monkey's chimney thar in the middle.

I gotta say im not very keen on he red brick look... however those little brick towers can look quite nice as a centre point when they are converted to mixed use schemes like this one pictured below just approved and tendering construction in leeds. ive seen similar around east london too that also has a lot of industrial brick warehouse type buildings made into conversions

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh78/danlad/buildings/theplace_towerworks_background-1.jpg

ironically a trendy area of barcelona, poblenou, is full of former industrial chimneys. typical former industrial environment that is being revitalised.

Indeed - the so called “Manchester Catala” :D

http://www.art-miniatures.com/ca/manchestercat.html

Oh oh the sweet ironyyy.

Indeed - the so called “Manchester Catala” :D

http://www.art-miniatures.com/ca/manchestercat.html

Oh oh the sweet ironyyy.

:lol:

So what? its a sign of Manchester’s great past, a great past that helped fuel the British empire....Manchester can achieve greatness once again! Manchester can once again "fuel" Britain! - and even more literally this time around!! Here's my clever little plan.... :)I have a new plan to make Manchester economically useful. Of course we all know that this will never happen without government intervention (witness BBC) so my new plan will be government led by necessity. It involves the construction of multiple nuclear power stations throughout Manchester. I'm sure there are loads of dingy old disused factories that have yet to be, err, "regenerated" or whatever, so there's no problem with available sites. The new factories will attract high skilled and highly paid nuclear experts to reside in the city which will improve its skills base and, who knows, may even have a trickle-down mentoring effect, thus raising the level of the wider Mancunian population. Though renewables are promising, it's nonetheless necessary for a massive and rapid shift to nuclear power in order to liberate this country from economic dependence on the Middle East or Russia and to cut our greenhouse emissions. Locating new power stations in Manchester, an already blighted place, will preserve more picturesque parts of the country from any fresh blight. After all why build new power stations in beautiful remote locations in the Scottish Highlands when you can build them in Manchester instead? It's simply a preference for ugly brownfield sites over pretty greenfield ones. Mancs have long had a chip on their shoulder about Manchester's diminished relevance and importance since the times of the Industrial Revolution and this will give them a new source of pride and relevance. Wheras once their city was "Cottonopolis" it can now be rebranded as Britain's "Nuclear Archipelago". This will effect a far more permanent economic transformation than the patronising charity of "regeneration" projects handed out by central government. Manchester will cease to be a sink for charitable handouts and will become useful and productive once again. Mancs should be encouraged to think of these new nuke plants as a "liberation" from the tyranny of London's charity. What say you Monkey for Mayor of Manchester? ;)

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh78/danlad/buildings/theplace_towerworks_background-1.jpg

That chimney in the background is ace I think Dundee has something similar.

I particularly like this power station featuring four chimney's. This power station with four chimney's is further enhanced by the upside down snooker table look. Perhaps the most interesting aspect of this power station with four chimney's is it's location. Slap bang in the middle of London. (I kid you not) These four chimney's can be seen clearly from the London eye and from miles away. The four chimney's are firmly on the must see list for American tourists.

So there you have it. One of London's premier tourist attractions. A former power station with four chimney's.

You couldn't make it up if you tried.(Monkey boy)

http://lisavalentine.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/battersea.gif

Talking of Mancunian chimneys, what happened to this proposal? It should have been completed by now....



Manchester Airport to build new chimney stack skyline
http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/content/articles/2005/05/26/airport_chimney_stacks.shtml


Manchester Airport today unveiled plans for five 90m tall chimney stacks in a bid to gain worldwide recognition. Developed in partnership with Manchester City Hall, the Manchester Tourism Board, and private sponsors, the chimneys are planned as part of the 2005-2105 "Manchester Lives!" urban regeneration plan.

Commenting on the project, Bob Stack, chairman of the Manchester Airports Group, said, "This is a great day for Manchester. Manchester is a city with an industrial character and soul. Brick chimneys are what we are all about. Chimneys put Manchester on the map and made the city the workshop of the world. Now they have become the symbol of our city. Visitors will arrive from overseas and the first thing they'll see will be brick chimneys."

The decision to build chimneys came after a drawn out selection process sponsored by Boddington's and the Manchester Evening News. Artists and architects were invited to submit plans to be put before a selection committee chaired by Stack.

"There was a fantastic response. The range of proposals was astounding. Many celebrated Manchester’s rich industrial heritage and the committee felt that the popularity of such ideas should be reflected in the final choice."


"Cotton Mill International"

Imaginative proposals included a huge flat cap on the control tower (rejected as a fire risk), an interactive steel furnace "exhibit" in Departures, and one simply involved renaming the airport "Cotton Mill International". Jane Slagheap, author of the latter proposal explained:

"With Liverpool naming their airport after John Lennon we felt it necessary to come up with a name reflecting our own sense of history and identity. Originally we thought of "Liam Gallagher International" after the Oasis frontman. However we soon concluded that this idea, like the band itself, was a somewhat naff copy of Liverpool's, so we kept looking for an original alternative reflecting our own unique identity. I think we got it right. After all what really put Manchester on the map was not Oasis but the cotton mills!"

Though not the winning entry, Jane hopes her shortlisted proposal will be adopted in addition to the new chimneys.

The chimneys themselves will rise 90m above the drab Manchester skyline. The original proposal was for three chimneys at 150m but the CAA ruled that it would infringe airport safety regulations to have such tall structures so close to the runway. The designers, Salford architectural practice Mills & Grimm, were sent back to the drawing board, reducing the height of their chimneys but adding an extra two.

"What we have is the perfect compromise" Mills enthused. "I grew up above the chippy on Vinegar Street, right in the heart of factory land. For me brick chimneys define the Manchester experience and we are thrilled to be giving something back to our city."


Belching smoke

Grimm emphasised that the chimneys would not be static repetitive museum pieces:

"We studied chimney design across the city, including stacks no longer standing from old photographs. Each chimney will be subtly different whilst still forming a cohesive cluster. We want everything to look right - the stacks will use second-hand blackened brick. We even had the idea of bricking up the control tower as well but eventually dropped that on grounds of cost. The tower is brick anyway, albeit somewhat redder than what we would have preferred."

"….instead of making a static architectural statement we wanted to recall the atmosphere of Manchester itself. To that end we'll have the chimneys belching smoke 24/7 using traditional coal furnaces at the base of each shaft. These days most coal produced in the UK is the highly refined smokeless kind. We will have to import smoking coals from Poland! How times have changed…."

However the plans are not universally popular. The BBC conducted a nationwide poll and message board on the shortlisted proposals. Samantha Snoote from Tunbridge Wells was unimpressed by any of them:

"Why couldn't they have chosen something more elegant? I thought an opera duet to welcome passengers in Arrivals would have been splendid. If they wanted to do something more "Northern" they could have had one of those charming traditional brass bands. That’s the trouble with Northerners, they drink too much beer and don't get enough polenta…."

The chimneys are expected to cost £12.4m of money funded jointly from the National Lottery and Northern Heritage Association. Work will commence next September and the chimneys are due to complete in June 2006.

You're trying far to hard, Monkey...

But I thought all cockernees liked chimernees...

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/VanDykeBert.jpg

whats with all the chimney abuse? nothing wrong with a good chimney - adds character

:lol: Ahhaha. Now monkey you've exhausted your tricks in what seems a fit of desperation - just do us a favor and have a full blown paddy.

I'm assuming of course that there couldn't be much more of a beautiful site than this monkey having a paddy! Once, some cunt was doing that blocking/unblocking thing to me on msn, so his online notification covered my screen. So causally, i blocked him.. Watching his appropriately small avatar turn from green to red, knowing that he was there, violently clicking his mouse - and knowing that in a few minutes he'd realize it was all in vain - that, that was something, probably the best thing thats ever happened to me actually. This could be close to that. Go on!!

Manchester Lalala Manchester Lalala!!! :D:D:D

four chimney's.



I'd have to advise checking the grammar if you're going to repeat the word 'chimneys' ad infinitum!

red brick doesnt always have to look too depressing

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/46/159238530_ce24ad2b44_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/3005689037_4297cffae4_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3050/3005684341_77d3d2005c_b.jpg

but it can look sinister, and closed at times

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1421/551982321_cd5b552b59_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/2478368909_500f5e8621_o.jpg

^ Red brick with limestone trim can look gorgeous. However far too many Manchester/Salford buildings have little or no trim They're entirely red brick. That's what gives the city its dark and depressing air - especially when combined with the low grey clouds and heavy rainfall.

what is limestone trim? :dunno:

That chimney in the background is ace I think Dundee has something similar.

Here we are :

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y68/El_Greco/Cox27s_stack_02SEP05.jpg

Bradfords got very nice chimney too :

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y68/El_Greco/1403923778_cb55d797f1_b.jpg

what is limestone trim? :dunno:Red brick trimmed with limestone around the windows or other architectural features:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/London/Kensington.jpg

You get a nice colour contrast. It looks much lighter than plain red brick.

I'd have to advise checking the grammar if you're going to repeat the word 'chimneys' ad infinitum!

Don't worry, I won't lose any sleep over that. Thanks anyway.

Don't worry, I won't lose any sleep over that. Thanks anyway.

Thought I'd better point it out - Manchester's competitiveness isn't helped by poor grammar! :)

Thought I'd better point it out - Manchester's competitiveness isn't helped by poor grammar! :)

Poor grammer or not, Leeds will always lag behind Manchester. Perhaps you should contact the guys who came up with that slogan, instead of worrying about my grammer and Manchester. Not very original or modern is it. They could do with some help.

http://www.leedsliveitloveit.com/images/signin/logo.jpg

Manchester's competitiveness Post #797 http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=570684&page=40 :wink2:

I particularly like this power station featuring four chimney's. This power station with four chimney's is further enhanced by the upside down snooker table look. Perhaps the most interesting aspect of this power station with four chimney's is it's location. Slap bang in the middle of London. (I kid you not) These four chimney's can be seen clearly from the London eye and from miles away. The four chimney's are firmly on the must see list for American tourists.

So there you have it. One of London's premier tourist attractions. A former power station with four chimney's.

You couldn't make it up if you tried.(Monkey boy)

http://lisavalentine.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/battersea.gif


Haven't had chance to post for a while, but I was thinking exactly the same thing jrb.

Why don't our London contingent go & pick a fight with a truly great World city like Paris or New York for example ...... Paris because it makes London look like the 'ugly sister' & New York because it makes London look like the stumpy 'poor relation'!! :)

Haven't had chance to post for a while, but I was thinking exactly the same thing jrb.

Why don't our London contingent go & pick a fight with a truly great World city like Paris or New York for example ...... Paris because it makes London look like the 'ugly sister' & New York because it makes London look like the stumpy 'poor relation'!! :)

Exactly Sandblast.

If you believed Monkey Boy, the streets of London are still paved with gold, the great fire is still raging, the plague is still rife, dead bodies are still being fished out of the Thames on a daily basis and it's got a power station with four chimneys slap bang in the middle of it.

http://www.batterseapowerstation.org.uk/hist1.html

PS. I have friends in high places. Either that or they feel sorry for me and edited my original post. :) Thank you.

Haven't had chance to post for a while, but I was thinking exactly the same thing jrb.

Why don't our London contingent go & pick a fight with a truly great World city like Paris or New York for example ...... Paris because it makes London look like the 'ugly sister' & New York because it makes London look like the stumpy 'poor relation'!! :)London's grander, more varied, and more interesting than New York, and more exciting and dynamic than the museum of Paris. We're arrogant because we know this is the greatest city in the world. :D

Let's face it, London is where the arrogant in this country go to live. The ones who think their arses smell of Roses;)

A w*nker magnet if you will?

couldn't have put it better:)

it's got a power station with four chimneys slap bang in the middle of it.

It's such a shame Battersea Power Station has been vandilised by the London Glitterati. A once great bastion of London's industrial heritage has been destroyed forever.

Where once there was smoke(another name for London), there is now champagne quaffing, canapés and really annoying pretentious people like Monkey Boy. :bowtie:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/ukBatterseaPowerStation.jpg

london is full of nice buildings, bodies and upper-class-twit-of-the-year-a-likes

manchester is full of red-brick-warehouses and statistical-willy-wavers

what can ya do huh?

Come to Liverpool: we have both styles of buildings without the twits or the willy wavers ;)

you know it makes sense :D

london is full of nice buildings, bodies and upper-class-twit-of-the-year-a-likes

manchester is full of red-brick-warehouses and statistical-willy-wavers

what can ya do huh?

Come to Liverpool: we have both styles of buildings without the twits or the willy wavers ;)

you know it makes sense :D

You do have the massive chip on their shoulder deluded souls though, who can't be pleasant neighbours. :D