no need to be offensive and a prick about it, all im saying is... trying to compare cities in the way many people do on this forum is silly and quite childish.

factoring in things which are definable in one sense and then disregarded in others to try and make a point about how good leeds is to brimingham or how good birmingham is in comparison to leeds.

here's a simple example for you to get your head around... it's like comparing your iphone to your landline phone...

If you're gonna act like a dick you should wear a condom on your head so you can at least look like one !!!

i love this forum, good healthy debate which universities and even question time would be proud of... next to playground name calling and jerry springer fights

no need to be offensive and a prick about it, all im saying is... trying to compare cities in the way many people do on this forum is silly and quite childish.

factoring in things which are definable in one sense and then disregarded in others to try and make a point about how good leeds is to brimingham or how good birmingham is in comparison to leeds.

here's a simple example for you to get your head around... it's like comparing your iphone to your landline phone...

your point is void. If there was 2 large convention centres in wolverhamptom, the region would already be served by convention centres and there would be no need for one in the birmingham administrative area. What administrative boundary it lies in is irrelevant.

It is also harder for you to grasp as the birmingham city region is so fractured. In the Leeds region, because the city region works together, it is decided that a convention centre in the city centre would be damaging to to economy and viability of Harrogate, which in turn is damaging to the entire leeds city region. Another example is the West Yorkshire Retail Park which has large superstore shopping outlets and an Ikea. This is marked as Ikea Leeds, but it is actually in Birstall in Kirklees. It would be insane to build a second ikea "in Leeds" when one already serves the entire city region.

your point is void. If there was 2 large convention centres in wolverhamptom, the region would already be served by convention centres and there would be no need for one in the birmingham administrative area. What administrative boundary it lies in is irrelevant.

It is also harder for you to grasp as the birmingham city region is so fractured. In the Leeds region, because the city region works together, it is decided that a convention centre in the city centre would be damaging to to economy and viability of Harrogate, which in turn is damaging to the entire leeds city region. Another example is the West Yorkshire Retail Park which has large superstore shopping outlets and an Ikea. This is marked as Ikea Leeds, but it is actually in Birstall in Kirklees. It would be insane to build a second ikea "in Leeds" when one already serves the entire city region.

Wiggs! Sort your f***ing Avatar out. It's giving me a headache.:gaah:

yeah thats valid but that is just business sense in its purest form, of course it makes no sense to have two ikea's or convention centres serving the same area. But that was not what i was getting at anyway.

my point is to do with your method of argument not your points.

when you compare a city you need some form of a boundary to compare it against. if you use leeds city region in your arugument then you should be comparing that to the, although fractured splintered and nowhere near as sophisticated as others like manchester (i don't know much about the leeds city region), of birmingham (wolves to solihul)

when you compare a city you need some form of a boundary to compare it against. if you use leeds city region in your arugument then you should be comparing that to the, although fractured splintered and nowhere near as sophisticated as others like manchester (i don't know much about the leeds city region), of birmingham (wolves to solihul)

Leeds city region, like manchester city region, are the only two city regions to both have devolved powers from whitehall, with super-council 'majority voting' powers

Wiggley what was it last time??Baghdad looking better than the average british city??? I guess living in Leeds this is kinda true....:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Leeds city region, like manchester city region, are the only two city regions to both have devolved powers from whitehall, with super-council 'majority voting' powers

you are missing my point. nevermind

Harrogate town to leeds is like Worcester to Birmingham - completely unconnected. If Harrogate was so good how come it doesn't hold any world or political conferences?? I've been there many a time working in the exhibition industry for over 20 years (probably since you were in shitty nappies wiggleydick) and you cannot compare the facilities of HIC with the ICC in Brum never mind the NEC. Stop being a faux yorkshire idiot and comparing a series of sporadic and badly connected towns to a large conurbation like Birmingham.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2wq4a9y.jpg

That MAP says it all so you can keep your Leeds and Manchester city regions. Birmingham can get on without that title like it always does.

Out here in Los Angeles I can safely say that the only "Leeds" on everyone's lips here is a mattress company!! They've all heard of Brum, Liverpool and Manchester and even Coventry due to The Specials playing next week!

http://i41.tinypic.com/2rxy15x.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2r3yyit.jpg

Harrogate town to leeds is like Worcester to Birmingham - completely unconnected. If Harrogate was so good how come it doesn't hold any world or political conferences?

It does though... Not really much more to say.

As for being unconnected. It's unconnected in terms of the urban area because of greenbelt land, but economically Harrogate and Leeds are very strongly linked. 15% of Harrogate's population commutes into Leeds daily.

So what if 15% of Harrogate commute into Leeds, the same can probably be said about people in Coventry who commute into Birmingham and that is Unconnected from the rest of the Birmingham city region.

Out here in Los Angeles I can safely say that the only "Leeds" on everyone's lips here is a mattress company!! They've all heard of Brum, Liverpool and Manchester and even Coventry due to The Specials playing next week!

http://i41.tinypic.com/2rxy15x.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2r3yyit.jpg

is that david batty on the advert? I wondered what the usless penalty missing cunt was up to these days!:bash:

I was really impressed on exploring Glasgow recently. It has easily the most urban and "big city" feel of any British city after London. I think it's because of the grid streets lined with big grand buildings. Many other British cities are linear. I don't mean they sprawl along just one major thoroughfare, because they may have several important streets. However one is aware that the surrounding streets are very much in the shadow of the main one in any given area. In Glasgow that's not the case as all the streets are big and grand in every direction in the grid. You feel as if you're in the centre of a proper urban core.

I couldn't agree more. The centre of Glasgow has magnificent architecture, superb 'urbanity' and a level of civic grandeur that is unmatched by any other UK city apart from London. Some of the streets lined with the grand buildings have an almost Parisien feel to them. Great city.

Just looking at my post-grad choices at the moment. I am looking at working within the BBC (already got my foot in...), I might end up living in Manchester.

All the Mancs are keeping quiet. Hmmm.

Massive, world class airport with three proper terminals and two runways.
Huge, 2nd largest attended concert arena in the world.
The two richest clubs in Britain, if not 2 or the 4 in the world.
Home to national radio stations and sport.
Tallest building outside of London, by a mile...with a nod to Portsmouth.

Should stoke the fires... ;)

The two richest clubs in Britain, if not 2 or the 4 in the world.

Well one of them is, the other is probably the most debt laden club in the world thanks to the Glazers.

Tallest building outside of London, by a mile


That sounds awfully tall indeed.

That sounds awfully tall indeed.

LOL.

Still, perhaps not so unlikely...maybe the plans for Eastlands will include a monster structure...indeed a tower or a hotel/office/resi/entertainment monster are more likely than not likely...and since we are talking about anything goes `world class' investment....the next few months could be, actually, quiet stupidly giddy.



Re Larven!

Yeah ok the richest and poorest clubs in world football....what an achievement for Manchester!!

World class is a phrase used so often it doesn't really mean anything anymore. Everything seems to be labelled world class... world class badgers, world class lager, world class cocaine, a world class shite, world class boobies, but I digress, enough about my adventures last night. World class to me translates as "ok but not shit".

World class badgers, world class lager, world class cocaine, a world class shite, world class boobies

I can understand most of those combining to make a rather enjoyable night out! :lol:

But badgers....wtf??

life would not be the same without quality badgers

badgers
EIyixC9NsLI


christmas badgers.
B_pWTlN15bc

Football badgers
Ddpobq4mG20

on a plane
h2R8v_oj0Vo

World Class youtube badger animations there yoshef

World class is a phrase used so often it doesn't really mean anything anymore. Everything seems to be labelled world class... world class badgers, world class lager, world class cocaine, a world class shite, world class boobies, but I digress, enough about my adventures last night. World class to me translates as "ok but not shit".

Well in this country I totally agree.

This Man City thing is not a UK project.
It is Abu Dhabi..who never do anything but stupid. True world-class.

I bet this ends up a project of international significance on an Arab oil money scale.

Not for the small fry of the provincial towns, squabbling on here? ;)

stir.

life would not be the same without quality badgers

Ahh yes I remember the badgers!

I always liked Magical Trevor too...

au3-hk-pXsM


or a bit of Salad Fingers to creep myself out a bit.

M3iOROuTuMA

magical trev is boss!



Well in this country I totally agree.

This Man City thing is not a UK project.
It is Abu Dhabi..who never do anything but stupid. True world-class.

I bet this ends up a project of international significance on an Arab oil money scale.

Not for the small fry of the provincial towns, squabbling on here? ;)

stir.


I think they'll spend a hundred million or so extending the stadium and developing the surrounding area. If they were willing to spend what you term "stupid" money developing a football club whilst throwing money at player transfers and wages every season, then they would not have baulked at the cost buying Liverpool and developing the Stanley Park stadium i.e. paying the extra for an already established brand. Maybe I'm wrong and we'll see Burj Eastlands, who knows? No doubt I'll incur the Wrath of Khan JRB by saying that!

So what if 15% of Harrogate commute into Leeds, the same can probably be said about people in Coventry who commute into Birmingham and that is Unconnected from the rest of the Birmingham city region.

actually you are wrong, even places like wolverhamptom will have a commuter level of around 15% or probably lower, whilst coventry will have significantly lower commuter levels. People who intend to work in birmingham and use it as their main city do *NOT* move to coventry - it is very much seperate. People who want to work in Leeds and live in the Leeds area but in an upmarket area will specifically choose to live in the golden triangle area which includes Harrogate. The fact that they will pass 15 minutes of rurarl belt to get to the city centre as opposed to 3 bed semis, is irrelevant to they relationship they have with the city centre.

All city areas have an area within them that is upmarket and affluent. And they are usually quite far from the city centre and away from inner city areas. Whether that area is within the administrative boundary, or continuous with the urban part of the city area is completely irrelevant. The Birmingham city area has solihul where wealthy people choose to live. Manchester has the small cheshire strip south of the city, and within the Leeds area, it is harrogate amd the golden triangle area

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/house-and-home/property/life-in-the-golden-triangle-701434.html

Manchester has the small cheshire strip south of the city,

That would be pretty much all of Cheshire, the Peak District National Park and NE Derbyshire you are referring to there?

then they would not have baulked at the cost buying Liverpool and developing the Stanley Park stadium i.e. paying the extra for an already established brand. Maybe I'm wrong and we'll see Burj Eastlands, who knows? No doubt I'll incur the Wrath of Khan JRB by saying that!

Ah, well....you see several reasons why I see the purchase of Liverpool did not happen by these guys.

1. Like Chelsea and Abromovich...he wanted to stamp his name on the club. With Arsenal/United and Liverpool the fame, trophies and history are the clubs not the owners.

2. Liverpool's ground, despite knicking part of Stanley Park, is too small to build on.

4. City have a mass transit scheme running through the complex and excellent road links, albeit in the urban core.

3. Liverpool is not as commercially viable as Manchester. Don't start. It is a fact

So, I can see why they did not buy Liverpool and chose City. I think another reason,weirdly is Manchester United..the name of the city is already known in football terms.

The above also kind of answers of questions of why not a London club (Spurs) or a Brum one. Only City had all the above boxes ticked....no trophy, football history, loads of land, a fantastic stadium, with loads of spare land and a large and wealthy, central location.

What about Didsbury?

The fanbase of Liverpool must ten times what manchester citys is they could of filled a 75 thousand seater every week.

That would be pretty much all of Cheshire, the Peak District National Park and NE Derbyshire you are referring to there?

no lol. If youre from manc then you should know where all the WAGs live, alderly edge, wilmslow etc.

actually you are wrong, even places like wolverhamptom will have a commuter level of around 15% or probably lower, whilst coventry will have significantly lower commuter levels. People who intend to work in birmingham and use it as their main city do *NOT* move to coventry - it is very much seperate. People who want to work in Leeds and live in the Leeds area but in an upmarket area will specifically choose to live in the golden triangle area which includes Harrogate. The fact that they will pass 15 minutes of rurarl belt to get to the city centre as opposed to 3 bed semis, is irrelevant to they relationship they have with the city centre.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/house-and-home/property/life-in-the-golden-triangle-701434.html
All city areas have an area within them that is upmarket and affluent. And they are usually quite far from the city centre and away from inner city areas. Whether that area is within the administrative boundary, or continuous with the urban part of the city area is completely irrelevant. The Birmingham city area has solihul where wealthy people choose to live. Manchester has the small cheshire strip south of the city, and within the Leeds area, it is harrogate amd the golden triangle area

I think you'll find that Harrogate it's more similar to Warwick and Leamington spa than Solihull. Solihull it's a continuous of the Birmingham urbanity Harrogate's not. Harrogate as Warwick, Leaminghton Spa, Redditch, Kidderminster, Tamworth etc its a commuter town and it's not part of the Leeds city/metropolitan area.

http://www.itraveluk.co.uk/maps/england/county/cache/yorkshire/leeds-icd-map-1200.png

http://www.itraveluk.co.uk/maps/england/county/warwickshire-map.png

All the Mancs are keeping quiet. Hmmm.

Massive, world class airport with three proper terminals and two runways.
Huge, 2nd largest attended concert arena in the world.
The two richest clubs in Britain, if not 2 or the 4 in the world.
Home to national radio stations and sport.
Tallest building outside of London, by a mile...with a nod to Portsmouth.

Should stoke the fires... ;)

I was just about to send a heated reply then :lol: till I saw the last bit. Beat ya by 2 inches! Thats what she said.

The fanbase of Liverpool must ten times what manchester citys is they could of filled a 75 thousand seater every week.

What has that to do with spreading the global appeal of Abu Dhabi?

Making United or Liverpool win more trophies has no benefit to Abu Dhabi.

City wiping the floor with all comers says "We are Abu Dhabi", with no one in any doubt as to who is responsible.

Investment in the surrounding available land and tapping into the wealth of the region is the bonus on the football club investment.

Not slagging Liverpool off, the same applies to all UK teams...maybe Rangers or Celtic may have been in with a shout...again..the golden rules above may not have applied?

no lol. If youre from manc then you should know where all the WAGs live, alderly edge, wilmslow etc.

Ey?

If you are restricting us to WAGS, then you cannot have any areas at all!

You have zero WAGS.

What a strange little boy you are.

I was just about to send a heated reply then :lol: till I saw the last bit. Beat ya by 2 inches! Thats what she said.

Largely due to your postings and gallant fighting of the bitter tyke & some scouse hordes, I have a warm feeling towards Pompey, especially after the harbour shot of a few weeks back.

Ah, well....you see several reasons why I see the purchase of Liverpool did not happen by these guys.

1. Like Chelsea and Abromovich...he wanted to stamp his name on the club. With Arsenal/United and Liverpool the fame, trophies and history are the clubs not the owners.

2. Liverpool's ground, despite knicking part of Stanley Park, is too small to build on.

4. City have a mass transit scheme running through the complex and excellent road links, albeit in the urban core.

3. Liverpool is not as commercially viable as Manchester. Don't start. It is a fact

So, I can see why they did not buy Liverpool and chose City. I think another reason,weirdly is Manchester United..the name of the city is already known in football terms.

The above also kind of answers of questions of why not a London club (Spurs) or a Brum one. Only City had all the above boxes ticked....no trophy, football history, loads of land, a fantastic stadium, with loads of spare land and a large and wealthy, central location.

You mean the only taxpayer funded stadium in the Premier League.

You mean the only taxpayer funded stadium in the Premier League.

Well, come 2013/14 season.. you will see West Ham in a £12billion pound stadium. I don't like city but what is your point..have a go at Glasgow...what is happening with their Commenwealth Games stadium?

Manchester built a true legacy...indeed...the forthcoming £1billion pound investment into the area...pays back the tax-payer funded council house stadium 10 times over.

That is a good use of tax-payer money.

The London Olympics and Glasgow Commenwealth games will almost certainly, in comparison, be financial holes.

You can therefore carry on the arguement on about tax payer funding in that light.

Pipe, stick, smoke.

Glasgow isn't building anything for the CWG's - ALL the projects were going ahead regardless and thats the reason the city bid for the games.

Pipe, stick, smoke.

Well, come 2013/14 season.. you will see West Ham in a £12billion pound stadium. I don't like city but what is your point..have a go at Glasgow...what is happening with their Commenwealth Games stadium?

Manchester built a true legacy...indeed...the forthcoming £1billion pound investment into the area...pays back the tax-payer funded council house stadium 10 times over.

That is a good use of tax-payer money.

The London Olympics and Glasgow Commenwealth games will almost certainly, in comparison, be financial holes.

You can therefore carry on the arguement on about tax payer funding in that light.

Pipe, stick, smoke.

My point is it was the in-situ stadium which made the club attractive. So far as payback is concerned it is not the millions of contributors who gain but the few beneficiaries.

Who could have imagined it, super-rich foreigners becoming benefit junkies.

FUCKING HELL (Eastisleast), NOT THAT OLD CHESTNUT AGAIN! (and again, and again.....) :wallbash:

You mean the only taxpayer funded stadium in the Premier League.

I've explained it to you a 1000 times before. What is up with you? :bash:

FUCKING HELL (Eastisleast), NOT THAT OLD CHESTNUT AGAIN! (and again, and again.....) :wallbash:



I've explained it to you a 1000 times before. What is up with you? :bash:

:lol: Must be a slow learner, or maybe you're a poor explainer.

Just remember each time you go to the Benefit Stadium, it's my £ you are sitting on. :cheers:

magical trev is boss!

I think they'll spend a hundred million or so extending the stadium and developing the surrounding area. If they were willing to spend what you term "stupid" money developing a football club whilst throwing money at player transfers and wages every season, then they would not have baulked at the cost buying Liverpool and developing the Stanley Park stadium i.e. paying the extra for an already established brand. Maybe I'm wrong and we'll see Burj Eastlands, who knows? No doubt I'll incur the Wrath of Khan JRB by saying that!

I could never wrath you Yoshef. :)

Just to clear one or two things up.

From what I've read and heard, ADUG initially looked at a few clubs. Arsenal, Newcastle and a couple more.(forget who)

Apparently they decided on City for the following reasons. Obviously there are other reasons which I haven't heard about.

The price for the club at that time was £120mill, which was/is peanuts. Compare that to United(£1.2bill), Liverpool(£600mill), Arsenal(500mill upwards)

As Eastisleast keeps on trying to point out, they also got a 'tax payer funded' brand new 48,000 seater stadium for free.(arf!) In today's current stadia climate it would probably cost them between £200-£250mill to build a similar stadium.

The fan base. Regardless of what City's maximum fanbase really is, they have a hardcore support of between 40-45,000 that go on a regular basis. Considering City haven't won a trophy for 34 years(ouch!), and 'we were' constantly in the shadow of the biggest club in the world(supposedly), that's pretty good. ADUG obviously looked at the level of hardcore support and decided it was a plus point and could be increased further. I have no doubt that the 'local support' will increase once City start winning trophies once again. (the new redeveloped COMS capacity would suggest that :wink2:)

Finally. Let's not beat around the bush, ADUG are also in this to make money via property development. MCFC is surrounded by at least 100-200 acres of derelict land that is waiting to be redeveloped. This land not only surrounds the stadium, it is on the doorstep of the city centre and will eventually be serviced via Metrolink. We all know about the failed Casino Bid and we all know what has followed on since. None of the other football clubs they looked at could offer them anything like this opportunity. Along with the football club, the land surrounding it was ready to be developed. It was an opportunity they couldn't miss.

Since then the initial plans have been thrown out of the window and now we have a new ball game. Nothing is impossible.(honestly) When it comes to developing leisure attractions and property, these guys don't mess about. I have no doubt that MCC and NEM along with ADUG will eventually build a wordclass leisure destination that will leave a lasting legacy for one of the poorest area's in Manchester and in the United Kingdom. All from an inital tax payers contribution of £120mill.(Eastisleast)

68K

:lol: Must be a slow learner, or maybe you're a poor explainer.

Just remember each time you go to the Benefit Stadium, it's my £ you are sitting on. :cheers:

No. Your either f***ing thick or your not prepared to accept the facts on purpose? I'll give you the benefit of my doubt.

As a joking United fan I call we call it the council house...but now in the context of the investment coming in, that is a farce

As a joking United fan I call we call it the council house...but now in the context of the investment coming in, that is a farce

The most expensive council house ever. :lol:

Paul Lake.

The plans for a redeveloped COMS are incredible.

I think you'll find that Harrogate it's more similar to Warwick and Leamington spa than Solihull. Solihull it's a continuous of the Birmingham urbanity Harrogate's not. Harrogate as Warwick, Leaminghton Spa, Redditch, Kidderminster, Tamworth etc its a commuter town and it's not part of the Leeds city/metropolitan area.

As already said, your confusion is due to the fact that harrogate is physically detatched from leeds, where as solihull is not. This makes no difference to the relationship both towns have with the city centre. The golden triangle is the affluent portion of the leeds area. People with money wanting to espcape the inner suburbs but stil maintan their employment connection with leeds city centre espcape to the golden triangle area, just like people in the birmingham area would move to solihull. A rural chunk seperating harrogate from leeds city centre doesnt change its relationship. Harrogate suburbs to Leeds city centre are a mere 14 miles away. The same distance from alderley edge to manchester city centre. Incidently, Warwick is 34 miles away from Birmingham city centre and so its relationship and function becomes different.

It is the reason why harrogate is within the ONS-Eurostat defined metropolitan LUZ area of Leeds, whilst warick and lemmington spa are not for Birmingham, as well as harrogate being a strong partner within the Leeds City Region.

Warwick district and Harrogate district both have similar populations. Harrogate railway station has up to 5 trains per hour at rush hour to Leeds, with total station pax/annum being 1.3 million. Warwick pax/annum at its train station is 0.3 million. This indicates the difference.

As already said, your confusion is due to the fact that harrogate is physically detatched from leeds, where as solihull is not. This makes no difference to the relationship both towns have with the city centre. The golden triangle is the affluent portion of the leeds area. People with money wanting to espcape the inner suburbs but stil maintan their employment connection with leeds city centre espcape to the golden triangle area, just like people in the birmingham area would move to solihull. A rural chunk seperating harrogate from leeds city centre doesnt change its relationship. Harrogate suburbs to Leeds city centre are a mere 14 miles away. The same distance from alderley edge to manchester city centre. Incidently, Warwick is 34 miles away from Birmingham city centre and so its relationship and function becomes different.

It is the reason why harrogate is within the ONS-Eurostat defined metropolitan LUZ area of Leeds, whilst warick and lemmington spa are not for Birmingham, as well as harrogate being a strong partner within the Leeds City Region.

Warwick district and Harrogate district both have similar populations. Harrogate railway station has up to 5 trains per hour at rush hour to Leeds, with total station pax/annum being 1.3 million. Warwick pax/annum at its train station is 0.3 million. This indicates the difference.


Yes ... Warwick is 34 miles from Birmingham City Centre ... if you use Google Maps ... 34.2 to be precise .... on a route that takes you North out of the city on the Aston Expressway, then around the M6, down to the M42, along the M40 to Warwick ..... very selective again of you Mr Wigs!!! This, unfortunately has the damning effect of calling in to question ALL of the supposed 'facts & figures' you post .... utter crap!!! :yes:

Take the A41 out of Birmingham City Centre, and it is merely 22 miles ... door to door :okay:

Plus, with Birmingham being a much larger city than Leeds .... Birmingham being a second tier city, whilst Leeds is merely a 3rd tier city ... Birmingham's influence and 'city region' radiates a lot further out than does around Leeds. Towns like Telford, Warwick, Stratford, Lichfield, Kidderminster, Nuneaton, Worcester, Redditch, Bromsgrove, Tamworth etc, etc .... most of which are far larger in population terms than Harrogate, are all in the 'sphere of influence' of Birmingham.

I've got another fact for you Wigs .... M621 out of Leeds, down to the M62, across to the A1M, head North, get off onto the A661, and eventually you arrive in Harrogate .... roughly about 40 miles .... and a similar comparison to your mileage figures from Birmingham to Warwick ... compare eggs with eggs please, Wiggleyboy.

And by the way, the Harrogate Conference Centre isn't even in the same league as the ICC in Birmingham. I've attended conferences at both. Birmingham's is huge, ultra modern & slick ... one of the best Convention Centres in Europe ... and when I went to Harrogate on a conference, most of the conferences were held in temporary cheap marquee like structures, similar to a village fete ... it was truly awful!!!! :lol:

Lets have a few images from my picture gallery ... I know you love them Wigs.

International Convention Centre, Birmingham

With 12 Halls, the ICC Birmingham is one of Europes biggest and most modern Convention Centres.

http://www.midwaylets.co.uk/images/ICC/ICC%20Symphony%20Hall.jpghttp://www.eee.nott.ac.uk/epe2011//Images/icc2.jpghttp://www.celebrate-eid.com/img/content/hall%201%20ICC.jpg
http://www.charlesbarwell.com/portal/images/Image/ICC_brindley_place.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/2416281070_2424600980.jpg?v=0http://farm1.static.flickr.com/216/498498306_d216c6c2cf.jpg
http://www.theicc.co.uk/img/gallery/Mall1.jpghttp://www.acoustics.salford.ac.uk/acoustics_info/concert_hall_acoustics/images/birmingham.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3332285189_2a2e252f6b.jpg?v=0
http://www.cips.org/images/cms/Symphony%20Hall%20Classic%20Internal%20credit%20Mike%20Gutteridge.JPGhttp://images.google.co.uk/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.education2006.co.uk/images/hall05.jpg&usg=AFQjCNGUPZoXziT8Am4ipVH_KHvvhMkRxA
http://cache.virtualtourist.com/4093870-Brindley_Place-Birmingham.jpghttp://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/03/39/033919_7665d666.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2277/2103698247_b96b042600.jpg
http://www.shakespeareline.com/images/bham_street_cafe_v.jpghttp://www.advantagewm.co.uk/Images/Birmingham,%20Canal%20at%20Brindley%20Place_tcm9-24884.jpg




Leeds Conference Centre ..... located many miles to the North in a town called Harrogate (conveniently situated for nicer places like York)

http://www.sirastudio.com/images/harrogate%20international%20conference%20centre.jpghttp://www.westparkhotel.co.uk/WEST_PARK_HOTEL/harrogate_conference_centre.jpg

[B]Really clutching at straws and pretty desperate to claim this ^^^^ out in the sticks!!! :nuts:

I've got another fact for you Wigs .... M621 out of Leeds, down to the M62, across to the A1M, head North, get off onto the A661, and eventually you arrive in Harrogate .... roughly about 40 miles .... and a similar comparison to your mileage figures from Birmingham to Warwick ... compare eggs with eggs please, Wiggleyboy.

Someone needs to get a new Sat Nav... It is 13 miles from Harrogate to Leeds City Centre, 8 miles to the edge of the city.

The same distance from alderley edge to manchester city centre.



You do know Alderley Edge and Prestbury were essentially built by Manchester Railways as commuter towns don't you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alderley_Edge

The coming of the railway in 1842 with the construction of the Stockport to Crewe section of the main Manchester and Birmingham Railway changed all this. The Manchester and Birmingham Railway Company built the line through Chorley, offering free season tickets for 20 years to Manchester businessmen who built houses with a rateable value of more than £50 within a mile of the station. This 'season ticket' was in the form of a small silver oval which could be worn on a watch chain.

Someone needs to get a new Sat Nav... It is 13 miles from Harrogate to Leeds City Centre, 8 miles to the edge of the city.

I'm therefore claiming Warrington as Manchester then...indeed all the satellite towns are now Manchester's.

Thanks Wiggs!
:)

Cheers fella.

You'll have to bitch slap liverpool for it!

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=55193763

You'll have to bitch slap liverpool for it!

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=55193763

LOL, on Wiggs' scale...Liverpool & Everton are our 5th & 6th Premiership clubs...and Salford Quays is the southern extension of Mersey Docks.

Take the A41 out of Birmingham City Centre, and it is merely 22 milesr

The problem with that route is that it takes 50 minutes to reach the city centre by using the A road. An amount of time that can get you from Leeds to Manchester. Even still, Leeds is 13 miles away from harrogate, which makes a significant difference in terms of the relationship it has with the city centre.

Plus, with Birmingham being a much larger city than Leeds .... Birmingham being a second tier city, whilst Leeds is merely a 3rd tier city ... Birmingham's influence and 'city region' radiates a lot further out than does around Leeds.

Actually you are wrong here. Leeds economical influence is very strong, hence its very large city region and large commuter flows from places very far afield. This is because it has a larger amount of people working in business and financial services than birmingham - a sector that is the most important in having a ripple effect. Sectors such as manufacturing tend to be much more localised employing local people surrounding the factories. Leeds' emplyment base is significantly more skilled, which attracts a skilled middle and higher tier workforce, who more commonly reside far away from the city centre in semi rural parts. Birmingham's emplyment base is less skilled and relies therefore on a less skilled workforce, who more commonly live closer to their place of work, rather than affluent far out areas, which is why Brum's ripple effect is less.

Leeds' employment market if you include all sectors is actually a similar size to that of birmingham, largely due to high unemployment rates in birmingham and a very young population (high birth rates). Which means, despite Leeds' being a city a quarter of a million smaller than birmingham it actually employs a similar number of people, but with a higher GVA per capita.

Also, because Leeds and its surrounding urban area *is* smaller, it more heavily relies on towns further afield for its workforce. Or to put it another way, towns quite far from Leeds and very detatched, are actually quite close in real terms of commuting times due to Leeds not being as vast an urban area and have come to rely on that economic connection.


Towns like Telford, Warwick, Stratford, Lichfield, Kidderminster, Nuneaton, Worcester, Redditch, Bromsgrove, Tamworth etc, etc .... most of which are far larger in population terms than Harrogate, are all in the 'sphere of influence' of Birmingham.

But for all those places, many of which are further in commuting times and distance (eg Warick 45 minutes) none of them play the same role as the golden triangle. Higher end managerial and skilled professionals moving to birmingham to work do not choose these locations to live, they choose places closer such as solihull. In Leeds, they specifically choose the golden triangle region.

And by the way, the Harrogate Conference Centre isn't even in the same league as the ICC in Birmingham.

No you are right. HIC is the largest convention centre in the UK after london and glasgow. ;)

Just remember each time you go to the Benefit Stadium, it's my £ you are sitting on. :cheers:

Scousers pay taxes?!?!

The problem with that route is that it takes 50 minutes to reach the city centre by using the A road. An amount of time that can get you from Leeds to Manchester.


Blimey, Mr. Fly, You've now got Leeds United as your 28th league positioned football team!

I'm considering the temptation to start a 'Chelmesley Wood as the Midlands answer to Harrogate' post, but life's too short. init.

Wiggley and Leeds posters .... read this again!!! :nuts:

Yes ... Warwick is 34 miles from Birmingham City Centre ... if you use Google Maps ... 34.2 to be precise .... on a route that takes you North out of the city on the Aston Expressway, then around the M6, down to the M42, along the M40 to Warwick ..... very selective again of you Mr Wigs!!! This, unfortunately has the damning effect of calling in to question ALL of the supposed 'facts & figures' you post .... utter crap!!! :yes:

Take the A41 out of Birmingham City Centre, and it is merely 22 miles ... door to door :okay:

Plus, with Birmingham being a much larger city than Leeds .... Birmingham being a second tier city, whilst Leeds is merely a 3rd tier city ... Birmingham's influence and 'city region' radiates a lot further out than does around Leeds. Towns like Telford, Warwick, Stratford, Lichfield, Kidderminster, Nuneaton, Worcester, Redditch, Bromsgrove, Tamworth etc, etc .... most of which are far larger in population terms than Harrogate, are all in the 'sphere of influence' of Birmingham.

I've got another fact for you Wigs .... M621 out of Leeds, down to the M62, across to the A1M, head North, get off onto the A661, and eventually you arrive in Harrogate .... roughly about 40 miles .... and a similar comparison to your mileage figures from Birmingham to Warwick ... compare eggs with eggs please, Wiggleyboy.

And by the way, the Harrogate Conference Centre isn't even in the same league as the ICC in Birmingham. I've attended conferences at both. Birmingham's is huge, ultra modern & slick ... one of the best Convention Centres in Europe ... and when I went to Harrogate on a conference, most of the conferences were held in temporary cheap marquee like structures, similar to a village fete ... it was truly awful!!!! :lol:

Lets have a few images from my picture gallery ... I know you love them Wigs.

International Convention Centre, Birmingham

With 12 Halls, the ICC Birmingham is one of Europes biggest and most modern Convention Centres.

http://www.midwaylets.co.uk/images/ICC/ICC%20Symphony%20Hall.jpghttp://www.eee.nott.ac.uk/epe2011//Images/icc2.jpghttp://www.celebrate-eid.com/img/content/hall%201%20ICC.jpg
http://www.charlesbarwell.com/portal/images/Image/ICC_brindley_place.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/2416281070_2424600980.jpg?v=0http://farm1.static.flickr.com/216/498498306_d216c6c2cf.jpg
http://www.theicc.co.uk/img/gallery/Mall1.jpghttp://www.acoustics.salford.ac.uk/acoustics_info/concert_hall_acoustics/images/birmingham.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3332285189_2a2e252f6b.jpg?v=0
http://www.cips.org/images/cms/Symphony%20Hall%20Classic%20Internal%20credit%20Mike%20Gutteridge.JPGhttp://images.google.co.uk/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.education2006.co.uk/images/hall05.jpg&usg=AFQjCNGUPZoXziT8Am4ipVH_KHvvhMkRxA
http://cache.virtualtourist.com/4093870-Brindley_Place-Birmingham.jpghttp://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/03/39/033919_7665d666.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2277/2103698247_b96b042600.jpg
http://www.shakespeareline.com/images/bham_street_cafe_v.jpghttp://www.advantagewm.co.uk/Images/Birmingham,%20Canal%20at%20Brindley%20Place_tcm9-24884.jpg




Leeds Conference Centre ..... located many miles to the North in a town called Harrogate (conveniently situated for nicer places like York)

http://www.sirastudio.com/images/harrogate%20international%20conference%20centre.jpghttp://www.westparkhotel.co.uk/WEST_PARK_HOTEL/harrogate_conference_centre.jpg

[B]Really clutching at straws and pretty desperate to claim this ^^^^ out in the sticks!!! :nuts:

Blimey, Mr. Fly, You've now got Leeds United as your 28th league positioned football team!

I'm considering the temptation to start a 'Chelmesley Wood as the Midlands answer to Harrogate' post, but life's too short. init.

Ever since I discovered a Black Hole under Deansgate, I have witnessed the gravitational pull of Manchester getting stronger and stronger. So much so that, within my lifetime Leeds will be sucked into Oldham and the waters of the Mersey will wash away all those non-believers in Warrington.

The Deniers have been warned!

I'm therefore claiming Warrington as Manchester then...indeed all the satellite towns are now Manchester's.

Thanks Wiggs!
:)

Cheers fella.

Such comments show you havent grasped what is being discussed here (it's pretty basic stuff to be fair). No offence but you really are fucking thick lol.

^^That wasn't very nice.

^^That wasn't very nice.

It's kinda sweet. You pay your entrance fee and the monkeys show their arse at you.

Me?

I chuck him a banana and watch as he is led into his house to settle down after another day of screaming from the ropes.

^^That wasn't very nice.

Sometimes the truth hurts. He asked for it.

Sometimes the truth hurts. He asked for it.

Oh christ, 'ole Silverback has joined him. ;)

Wiggley and Leeds posters .... read this again!!! :nuts:

well Ive read it again, and the response which totally pwns each one of ur assertions is still the same. :)


Take the A41 out of Birmingham City Centre, and it is merely 22 milesr

The problem with that route is that it takes 50 minutes to reach the city centre by using the A road. An amount of time that can get you from Leeds to Manchester. Even still, Leeds is 13 miles away from harrogate, which makes a significant difference in terms of the relationship it has with the city centre.

Plus, with Birmingham being a much larger city than Leeds .... Birmingham being a second tier city, whilst Leeds is merely a 3rd tier city ... Birmingham's influence and 'city region' radiates a lot further out than does around Leeds.

Actually you are wrong here. Leeds economical influence is very strong, hence its very large city region and large commuter flows from places very far afield. This is because it has a larger amount of people working in business and financial services than birmingham - a sector that is the most important in having a ripple effect. Sectors such as manufacturing tend to be much more localised employing local people surrounding the factories. Leeds' emplyment base is significantly more skilled, which attracts a skilled middle and higher tier workforce, who more commonly reside far away from the city centre in semi rural parts. Birmingham's emplyment base is less skilled and relies therefore on a less skilled workforce, who more commonly live closer to their place of work, rather than affluent far out areas, which is why Brum's ripple effect is less.

Leeds' employment market if you include all sectors is actually a similar size to that of birmingham, largely due to high unemployment rates in birmingham and a very young population (high birth rates). Which means, despite Leeds' being a city a quarter of a million smaller than birmingham it actually employs a similar number of people, but with a higher GVA per capita.

Also, because Leeds and its surrounding urban area *is* smaller, it more heavily relies on towns further afield for its workforce. Or to put it another way, towns quite far from Leeds and very detatched, are actually quite close in real terms of commuting times due to Leeds not being as vast an urban area and have come to rely on that economic connection.


Towns like Telford, Warwick, Stratford, Lichfield, Kidderminster, Nuneaton, Worcester, Redditch, Bromsgrove, Tamworth etc, etc .... most of which are far larger in population terms than Harrogate, are all in the 'sphere of influence' of Birmingham.

But for all those places, many of which are further in commuting times and distance (eg Warick 45 minutes) none of them play the same role as the golden triangle. Higher end managerial and skilled professionals moving to birmingham to work do not choose these locations to live, they choose places closer such as solihull. In Leeds, they specifically choose the golden triangle region.

And by the way, the Harrogate Conference Centre isn't even in the same league as the ICC in Birmingham.

No you are right. HIC is the largest convention centre in the UK after london and glasgow. ;)

Still if we ever get into an outlandish fight with our continental cousins, then Wiggs is the first out of the trenches for two reasons:-

1. He truly believes in what he fights for.
2. Once the fight is over he is likely left pushing up the daisies, freeing us to live our lives.

Scousers pay taxes?!?!

Your wit gets dimmer by the day. Liverpool not only levies more Council Tax than Manchester (and probably Preston) but it also collects a higher percentage of it, 96% compared to Manchester's 90%. No wonder that place needs constant financial support from the rest of the country.

Must try harder, but is unlikely to succeed.

Anyway gotta go to bed - off to Vegas tomorrow! I'll leave you Leeds lameboys to waffle on about this mythical triangle or corridor of power eminating between the might of Leeds and the surrounding villages and hamlets.

But for all those places, many of which are further in commuting times and distance (eg Warick 45 minutes) none of them play the same role as the golden triangle. Higher end managerial and skilled professionals moving to birmingham to work do not choose these locations to live, they choose places closer such as solihull. In Leeds, they specifically choose the golden triangle region.


Well, I get you. Nobody with enough money to have a choice wants to live in Leeds, whereas Birmingham, presumably being a much nicer place, hasn't got this problem. Sounds about right to me:)

No you are right. HIC is the largest convention centre in the UK after london and glasgow. ;)

Wiggs you do spout complete and utter bollocks.

http://www.theicc.co.uk/
Conferences: 400+ per year
Halls: 11 including Symphony Hall plus NIA next door
Largest capacity hall: 3,000
Most famous event: G8 Summit

http://www.harrogateinternationalcentre.co.uk/
Conferences: 150+ per year
Halls: 8
Largest capacity hall: 2,000
Most famous event: Eurovision

Finally. Let's not beat around the bush, ADUG are also in this to make money via property development. MCFC is surrounded by at least 100-200 acres of derelict land that is waiting to be redeveloped. This land not only surrounds the stadium, it is on the doorstep of the city centre and will eventually be serviced via Metrolink. We all know about the failed Casino Bid and we all know what has followed on since. None of the other football clubs they looked at could offer them anything like this opportunity. Along with the football club, the land surrounding it was ready to be developed. It was an opportunity they couldn't miss.

Since then the initial plans have been thrown out of the window and now we have a new ball game. Nothing is impossible.(honestly) When it comes to developing leisure attractions and property, these guys don't mess about. I have no doubt that MCC and NEM along with ADUG will eventually build a wordclass leisure destination that will leave a lasting legacy for one of the poorest area's in Manchester and in the United Kingdom. All from an inital tax payers contribution of £120mill.(Eastisleast)

68K



Well it will certainly be interesting to see what they come up with bud :cheers:

Well it will certainly be interesting to see what they come up with bud :cheers:

From a footballing perspective...city are where Chelsea were in Ranieri's last season. With the awesome money they have....United being flat, Arsenal too thin and Chelsea too old...I can City sweeping the board from here on in.

In another life Chelsea would now be homing in on their 6th successive title...if Roman had carried on recruiting £20m+ players instead of the relative freeze of the last 4 years.

Intersting times.

What will they build to compliment that may well be the largest and most impressive project the UK will have seen.

http://www.harrogateinternationalcentre.co.uk/
Halls: 8
Largest capacity hall: 2,000

There are ten halls at HIC, 12 if you include the auditorium and Sun Pavillion.

The problem with that route is that it takes 50 minutes to reach the city centre by using the A road. An amount of time that can get you from Leeds to Manchester. Even still, Leeds is 13 miles away from harrogate, which makes a significant difference in terms of the relationship it has with the city centre.

Well if you draw a straigth line between Leeds and Harrogate it's arround 14 miles while Birmingham to Warwick it's 16.5m. Also Harrogate road it's also an A road and in terms of commuting, bing maps gave me a distance of 16.7m and 41 minutes while Warwick to Brum is a distance of 41m (due to M42) and 41 minutes.

Actually you are wrong here. Leeds economical influence is very strong, hence its very large city region and large commuter flows from places very far afield. This is because it has a larger amount of people working in business and financial services than birmingham - a sector that is the most important in having a ripple effect. Sectors such as manufacturing tend to be much more localised employing local people surrounding the factories. Leeds' emplyment base is significantly more skilled, which attracts a skilled middle and higher tier workforce, who more commonly reside far away from the city centre in semi rural parts. Birmingham's emplyment base is less skilled and relies therefore on a less skilled workforce, who more commonly live closer to their place of work, rather than affluent far out areas, which is why Brum's ripple effect is less.

This whole paragraph it's just rubbish. Sectors such as manufacturing tend to be more localised?? based on what the WingleyLeeds Human research laboratory findings????:lol::lol::lol:


Leeds' employment market if you include all sectors is actually a similar size to that of birmingham, largely due to high unemployment rates in birmingham and a very young population (high birth rates). Which means, despite Leeds' being a city a quarter of a million smaller than birmingham it actually employs a similar number of people, but with a higher GVA per capita.

Also, because Leeds and its surrounding urban area *is* smaller, it more heavily relies on towns further afield for its workforce. Or to put it another way, towns quite far from Leeds and very detatched, are actually quite close in real terms of commuting times due to Leeds not being as vast an urban area and have come to rely on that economic connection.

You still don't get it, economic influence and city/metropolitan population are completely different thinks. Of course Leeds has a stronger influence in commuter towns, while cities like Birmingham and Manchester don't, as they have a big enough urban population to accommodate for their employment needs, but you cannot just add the population of a village 14 miles down the road to Leeds’s population and say here we go Leeds has a population of 2 million etc. Solihull it’s an integral part of the Birmingham urbanity, Harrogate it’s an affluent commuter town with very strong links to Leeds city.

Hopefully we can agree that Leeds as a city it's much smaller than Birmingham or Manchester, but the gap it's narrower when we are talking about economic areas as Leeds seems to punch above its weight.


No you are right. HIC is the largest convention centre in the UK after london and glasgow. ;)

yeah right......

Wiggs you do spout complete and utter bollocks.

http://www.theicc.co.uk/
Conferences: 400+ per year
Halls: 11 including Symphony Hall plus NIA next door
Largest capacity hall: 3,000
Most famous event: G8 Summit

http://www.harrogateinternationalcentre.co.uk/
Conferences: 150+ per year
Halls: 8
Largest capacity hall: 2,000
Most famous event: Eurovision

Erm, no, your 45 year old boyfriend (who acts like he is 14) does.

"The HIC is the third largest integrated venue in the UK, beaten in size only by Alexandra Palace in London and by the SECC in Glasgow".

And remember, like *every* bit of shite on here, it is people like Sandblast, asserting that the ICC is the best thing ever, posting loads of photos, asserting how amazing it is. I am simply pointing out, it is not as big as the top three venues in the UK, which includes HIC, which is part of the leeds city region. Now please, get the fuck over it.

Erm, no, your 45 year old boyfriend (who acts like he is 14) does.

"The HIC is the third largest integrated venue in the UK, beaten in size only by Alexandra Palace in London and by the SECC in Glasgow".

And remember, like *every* bit of shite on here, it is people like Sandblast, asserting that the ICC is the best thing ever, posting loads of photos, asserting how amazing it is. I am simply pointing out, it is not as big as the top three venues in the UK, which includes HIC, which is part of the leeds city region. Now please, get the fuck over it.

Are you trying to use a technicality to get your point across? The 3rd largest *integrated* facility??? :ohno:

The ICC is larger than HIC, get over it and quit trying to prove otherwise. And quit with the personal shit too. You can tell when you're losing, you get personal.

Erm, no, your 45 year old boyfriend (who acts like he is 14) does.

"The HIC is the third largest integrated venue in the UK, beaten in size only by Alexandra Palace in London and by the SECC in Glasgow".

And remember, like *every* bit of shite on here, it is people like Sandblast, asserting that the ICC is the best thing ever, posting loads of photos, asserting how amazing it is. I am simply pointing out, it is not as big as the top three venues in the UK, which includes HIC, which is part of the leeds city region. Now please, get the fuck over it.

Hahahaha it's like comparing Liverpool FC to Sunderland FC just because their stadium capacities are similar. HIC it's a mid table convention centre, ICC on the other side it's a top class convention facility.

Well, I get you. Nobody with enough money to have a choice wants to live in Leeds, whereas Birmingham, presumably being a much nicer place, hasn't got this problem. Sounds about right to me:)

Sadly for brummie world, not true. Leeds has higher gdp per capita, is more wealthy and affluent, with more green space, higher levels of employment, and better quality of life, and is more desireable - higher house prices and wages despite being further north. It also has been witnessing some of the highest population growths of any city in the UK over the last decade from people actively choosing to move to Leeds from other parts of the UK. Birmingham on the other hand has chronic unemployment and a dyeing industry, a brain drain of people fleeing the city, whilst more people leave the city each year than arrive. However the overall population level remains stagnant due to chronicly high birth rates compared to the other core cities. On all sustainability and quality of life indices, Brum ranks lower than Leeds. Also brum is much more deprived on the ONS levels of deprivation indices compared to Leeds which fairs very well.

And remember, once again, this isnt people from Leeds aserting they are 'better' - i dont really care to be honest, it is (as always) brummies asserting their city is better in the context you describe, and being proved wrong once again.

I agree with you mate, ^^ if the brummies don't get the message this time there is a huge loss of brains in Birmingham more than we probably expected...

Are you trying to use a technicality to get your point across? The 3rd largest *integrated* facility??? :ohno:

The ICC is larger than HIC, .

except, reality says it is not.

Im sure the brummy one hosts more events etc, its in the centre of the country. It may not be one of the 3 largest venues in the UK, but it is certainly succesful :)

As for getting personal - try reading above. I'll only make personal comments if theyre directed at me first.

I actually find all this funny. The majority of people dont really care about convention centres, or if there is ballet which 0.001% of the city population will attend. They care about real things.. quality of life, deprivation, availability of employment, availability of green space, and in terms of activities, shopping, nightlife, and eating out. These are things that affect people's life, and in all these respects Birmingham performs poorley. Also, being a monstorous concrete car park, it also lacks any soul or vibe, or the buzz of more exciting cities, with a visible lack of what makes uk cities special - historical buildings and fine victorian streets. It's like living in a big ghastly car parking lot. Students, and people loooking to re-locate avoid brum for a reason. Still, you have a busier exibition centre, and all the other infrastructure associated with a larger urban area - so its all alright ;) (It's not making anyone want to move there tho, they choose more vibrant, succesful cities, that offer a better quality of life)

From a footballing perspective...city are where Chelsea were in Ranieri's last season. With the awesome money they have....United being flat, Arsenal too thin and Chelsea too old...I can City sweeping the board from here on in.

In another life Chelsea would now be homing in on their 6th successive title...if Roman had carried on recruiting £20m+ players instead of the relative freeze of the last 4 years.

Intersting times.

What will they build to compliment that may well be the largest and most impressive project the UK will have seen.


As you said Chelsea reigned in their transfer spending massively, but with regards to wages they have not. I think had they picked up 6 league titles and 6 champions leagues, there would almost certainly be a transfer cap or a salary cap in place or being seriously considered by now.

except, reality says it is not.

Im sure the brummy one hosts more events etc, its in the centre of the country. It may not be one of the 3 largest venues in the UK, but it is certainly succesful :)

As for getting personal - try reading above. I'll only make personal comments if theyre directed at me first.

I actually find all this funny. The majority of people dont really care about convention centres, or if there is ballet which 0.001% of the city population will attend. They care about real things.. quality of life, deprivation, availability of employment, availability of green space, and in terms of activities, shopping, nightlife, and eating out. These are things that affect people's life, and in all these respects Birmingham performs poorley. Also, being a monstorous concrete car park, it also lacks any soul or vibe, or the buzz of more exciting cities, with a visible lack of what makes uk cities special - historical buildings and fine victorian streets. It's like living in a big ghastly car parking lot. Students, and people loooking to re-locate avoid brum for a reason. Still, you have a busier exibition centre, and all the other infrastructure associated with a larger urban area - so its all alright ;) (It's not making anyone want to move there tho, they choose more vibrant, succesful cities, that offer a better quality of life)

Jesus Christ Wiggles. When did you last visit Birmingham 1985? It doesn't sound like it was very recently any way. Why don't you come down again and I'll show you around. You'll see that it is far far removed from your outdated opinions.

quality of life, deprivation, availability of employment, availability of green space, and in terms of activities, shopping, nightlife, and eating out. These are things that affect people's life, and in all these respects Birmingham performs poorley

hahaha trying to be funny again.

The reality is

Shopping - above Leeds in every league table.
Nightlife - Birmingham way better.
Eating out - in a different league (3 michelin restaurants)
Green space - that's a bit generic. In terms of inner suburbs Edgbaston-Harborne-Moseley-Selly Oak offer top norch quality of life. I can't think many affluent inner Leeds suburbs that offer similar quality of life...
Deprivation - much more balanced than every other main north city
Employment - scores below Leeds for the moment still much more high-value manufacturing jobs than Leeds...

I've also noticed that major construction work (which is what this forum is all about) has well and truly dried up in Leeds, whereas in Birmingham there is still plenty of large projects currently under construction.

Jesus Christ Wiggles. When did you last visit Birmingham 1985? It doesn't sound like it was very recently any way. Why don't you come down again and I'll show you around. You'll see that it is far far removed from your outdated opinions.

This is some beautiful street scape http://www.laosfriendship.com/Hill%20St%20,Birmingham,May,2008.JPG let me put my rose coloured spectacles on.

Its like walking into Little London in Leeds :crazy:

I as quick point the appearance of 1960's council blocks in Brum's core is really, really off putting.
A large element of the discussed Brum bulk is made of this.

Manchester has a proper urban core with ZERO council blocks of any magnitude within a mile (or so) of the city centre..meaning the core is much `cleaner' in appearance.

Why have these old blocks not being `don' up and made to look more modern or demolished?

Still, good for lower wage earners to access jobs being right in the city core...heaven help the wee bairns though.

I agree, :nuts: its a right mess is the birmingham skyline and street level, no wonder up in Leeds when you ask someone about birmingham first thing they say is dump. :|

There is a certain gritty beauty about that actually but its days are numbered as are all the arse ends of New Street Station. That tower block is now empty awaiting demolition and will hopefully eventually be replcaced by twin towers marking the main entrance of New New Street.

But here you go, have some nice aerials :)

http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/gallery/d/37570-1/councilhouse-db17368.jpg

http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/gallery/d/18404-1/birmingham-cathedral-ba04354.jpg

http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/gallery/d/18463-1/corporation-st-ba04356.jpg

Real hideous aren't they?

Jesus Christ Wiggles. When did you last visit Birmingham 1985? It doesn't sound like it was very recently any way. Why don't you come down again and I'll show you around. You'll see that it is far far removed from your outdated opinions.

I visited about 6 months ago, and again before that when I had to get a visa for a trip to india. I was shocked if I am honest, I expected a vibrant smart modern city, but was saddened to see how poor the streetscape was, with so much monstorous concrete everywhere and so many buildings with little street interaction - all fitting the standard national stereotypes of Birmingham - in start contrast to the image portrayed on here via select photos :( It all looked so old fashioned like walking into a time walk. There were some things I liked - the people were friendly.

haha! ^^ any city can pull out a couple of ariel views. :|

Well the block in trolls photos its part of the New Street redevelopment so it won't be there for long. Personally I find the urbanity of Birmingham city centre very interesting; it gives a feeling of continuity through different architectural periods while cities like Leeds seem to miss altogether. It's like their city went straight from the 40s to the 90s.

I visited about 6 months ago, and again before that when I had to get a visa for a trip to india. I was shocked if I am honest, I expected a vibrant smart modern city, but was saddened to see how poor the streetscape was, with so much monstorous concrete everywhere and so many buildings with little street interaction - all fitting the standard national stereotypes of Birmingham - in start contrast to the image portrayed on here via select photos :( It all looked so old fashioned like walking into a time walk. There were some things I liked - the people were friendly.

Well funny you say that cause you keep repeating that Leeds it a city of 2 million people but my impression everytime I've been there it's more like a city the size of Nottingham, the only civic building of a decent size its the town hall....weird.....

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/may2009/0/9/birmingham-new-street-pic-pa-799287745.jpg http://www.placesbirmingham.co.uk/images/uploaded/Orion_Building-Navigation_Street-Birmingham-B5_photo_0-1.jpg http://aerial-birmingham.co.uk/BirminghamNewStStation.jpg http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/4/4b/Birmingham_(UK)_skyline_-_Centenary_Square_640.jpg http://www.travelindia-guide.com/news_updates/world/images/ugly-buildings/central-library-birmingham.jpghttp://expbirmingham.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/dscf1122.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Brum_skyline_numbered.jpg Stunning

LeedsTroll are you a spastic or something?????

LeedsTroll are you a spastic or something?????

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/adamtaxi123456789/ugly-alan.jpg Look a photo of soul 13 on is facebook :nuts: and yeah you ;)

http://www.wellho.net/pix/birm2.jpg http://www.freefoto.com/images/1046/02/1046_02_63---The-second-tallest-building-in-Birmingham-Alpha-Tower-Height-99-90m-Floors-28_web.jpg http://www.freefoto.com/images/1046/02/1046_02_57---The-seventh-tallest-building-in-Birmingham-Centre-City_web.jpg

I visited about 6 months ago, and again before that when I had to get a visa for a trip to india. I was shocked if I am honest, I expected a vibrant smart modern city, but was saddened to see how poor the streetscape was, with so much monstorous concrete everywhere and so many buildings with little street interaction - all fitting the standard national stereotypes of Birmingham - in start contrast to the image portrayed on here via select photos :( It all looked so old fashioned like walking into a time walk. There were some things I liked - the people were friendly.

I don't mean to sound offensive but bollocks! Where did you actually go? Yes there are areas which need serious attention but if you had actually wandered through the city centre proper. You would know what shite you are spouting.

haha! ^^ any city can pull out a couple of ariel views. :|

Anyone can post a dodgy picture of a poor streetscape. What is your point?

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/adamtaxi123456789/ugly-alan.jpg Look a photo of soul 13 on is facebook :nuts: and yeah you ;)

Yeah it's official you're retarded.....

Yeah it's official you're retarded.....

Yeah totaly ;)

I don't mean to sound offensive but bollocks! Where did you actually go? Yes there are areas which need serious attention but if you had actually wandered through the city centre proper. You would know what shite you are spouting.



Anyone can post a dodgy picture of a poor streetscape. What is your point?

My point is you're all full of shit.

http://www.wellho.net/pix/birm2.jpg http://www.freefoto.com/images/1046/02/1046_02_63---The-second-tallest-building-in-Birmingham-Alpha-Tower-Height-99-90m-Floors-28_web.jpg http://www.freefoto.com/images/1046/02/1046_02_57---The-seventh-tallest-building-in-Birmingham-Centre-City_web.jpg

Actually I love the third photo, Smallbrook Queensway it's a great 1960s bullevard unique in architecture quality. As for the Alpha tower it's Grade A listed...thanks for proving my point about Birmingham's architectural depth.

My point is you're all full of shit.

:)

Thanks man. You just talk it.

Actually I love the third photo, Smallbrook Queensway it's a great 1960s bullevard unique in architecture quality. As for the Alpha tower it's Grade A listed...

I agree, Smallbrook Queensway shows what 60s architecture could be like. Brum has some of the best examples of that period.

By the sound of you're boyfriend ^^ soul 13 birminghams gone to is head. anyone with a decent pair of eyes can see that Birmingham is a concrete mess.

LeedsTroll are you a spastic or something?????

Clue is in the name. Just put him on ignore if you want to get anything sensible out of any thread he curses. I find it works a treat in the absence of any moderation.:)

:)

Thanks man. You just talk it.



I agree, Smallbrook Queensway shows what 60s architecture could be like. Brum has some of the best examples of that period.

Yeah its you're local dole office. where you go every wednesday :)

By the sound of you're boyfriend ^^ soul 13 birminghams gone to is head. anyone with a decent pair of eyes can see that Birmingham is a concrete mess.

Ever heard the phrase "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"?

But anyway, I'm not some blinkered fool who thinks that Birmingham is perfect. In fact my proffesion demands that I understand the weaknesess present. I'd be willing to bet I am a damn sight more clued up on Brum's problems than you. I'm willing to bet I could point out more flaws in urban design terms and what aspects of the built environment function well and which ones don't than you could. But I don't care I'm not a troll out to wind people up, I'm a fan of cities in general and almost all of them have something that I like with the possible exception of Stoke.

Yeah its you're local dole office. where you go every wednesday :)

Geography fail. I'm not called "Telfordboy" for no reason. Why would my local dole office be in Birmingham city centre?

Clue is in the name. Just put him on ignore if you want to get anything sensible out of any thread he curses. I find it works a treat in the absence of any moderation.:)

hey thanks for that...:)

I as quick point the appearance of 1960's council blocks in Brum's core is really, really off putting.
A large element of the discussed Brum bulk is made of this.

Manchester has a proper urban core with ZERO council blocks of any magnitude within a mile (or so) of the city centre..meaning the core is much `cleaner' in appearance.

Why have these old blocks not being `don' up and made to look more modern or demolished?

Still, good for lower wage earners to access jobs being right in the city core...heaven help the wee bairns though.

Most tower blocks are gradually being demolished, along with Stephenson Tower in that picture, with the few left in the city centre being done up to high standards. Anyway, who says you can't have a few tower blocks in a city centre? 60s tower blocks make up some of London's Canary Wharf skyline! I agree that some are perhaps better suited to the suburbs but city centres are always a mix of old, new, beautiful and ugly.

That told them. I won! :cheer:

Good one Butters, see how everyone surrenders to your tower block knowledge :lol:

Stop sticking up for the brummies just because there city centre is shabby :nuts: we all get sick of the Birmingham lot with there secound City lark they come out with,

if you look at Birmingham its just made up of nothing but 60s - 70s tower blocks it gives the impression of a dirty city something you don't get with places like Manchester Liverpool and Leeds with a push. you also only get the Birmingham lot comparing itself to Leeds Because they already know if they compared it to the likes of Manchester or Liverpool they would lose without a doubt in comparison. Sandblast is the main arss hole who brings it up most of the time and also seems to posts old crummy photos of Leeds, and as soon as we post old crummy photos of Birmingham and make are opinions and facts you Birmingham lot start having little gurly fits. :ohno:

if you look at Birmingham its just made up of nothing but 60s - 70s tower blocks

Did you not read what I said? There are about 5 tower blocks currently being demolished in the city (including some in that giant panorama picture), others have already been demolished this year and tens of them have been demolished over the last 20 years. Other blocks are becoming "city apartments" or whatever the new term is.


it gives the impression of a dirty city something you don't get with places like Manchester Liverpool and Leeds with a push.

Hmmmm. No, not at all. They're all sparkly clean. :| Toxteth, Moss Side, Wherever in Leeds (as I don't know it well enough) - all big cities have their run down, dirtier areas just like Birmingham. Birmingham has a squillion trees (fact :D) which always helps make it look a bit nicer and keeps the air cleaner.

Did you not read what I said? There are about 5 tower blocks currently being demolished in the city (including some in that giant panorama picture), others have already been demolished this year and tens of them have been demolished over the last 20 years. Other blocks are becoming "city apartments" or whatever the new term is.




Hmmmm. No, not at all. They're all sparkly clean. :| Toxteth, Moss Side, Wherever in Leeds (as I don't know it well enough) - all big cities have their run down, dirtier areas just like Birmingham. Birmingham has a squillion trees (fact :D) which always helps make it look a bit nicer and keeps the air cleaner.

From the way you have wrote that i assume you're a girl no doubt, look at every tower block in Birmingham all i see is car parks and concrete towers or is it my imagination :crazy:

Stop sticking up for the brummies just because there city centre is shabby :nuts: we all get sick of the Birmingham lot with there secound City lark they come out with,

Please, Birmingham forummers are mostly among the friendliest and least confrontational people on SSC. Sandblast and Brummielad are probably the only ones who get wound up. They are also the ones who get least involved with the city v city debates and rarely feel the need to boast like Leeds Manchester and Liverpool forummers. This is not because they have nothing to boast about, the city has achieved great things. They just don't feel the need for the most part.

if you look at Birmingham its just made up of nothing but 60s - 70s tower blocks it gives the impression of a dirty city something you don't get with places like Manchester Liverpool and Leeds with a push. you also only get the Birmingham lot comparing itself to Leeds Because they already know if they compared it to the likes of Manchester or Liverpool they would lose without a doubt in comparison. Sandblast is the main arss hole who brings it up most of the time and also seems to posts old crummy photos of Leeds, and soon as we post old crummy photos of Birmingham and make are opinions and facts you Birmingham lot start having little gurly fits. :ohno:

So you have never been to Birmingham either? You should reserve judgement on a place before exploring it properly.

Please, Birmingham forummers are mostly among the friendliest and least confrontational people on SSC. Sandblast and Brummielad are probably the only ones who get wound up. They are also the ones who get least involved with the city v city debates and rarely feel the need to boast like Leeds Manchester and Liverpool forummers. This is not because they have nothing to boast about, the city has achieved great things. They just don't feel the need for the most part.



So you have never been to Birmingham either? You should reserve judgement on a place before exploring it properly.

Yes i have been to Birmingham a couple of times, my last visit was last april if i be honest i didn't like the place whats so ever. don't come back with its changed since last year because it clearly hasn't the only way Birmingham could change for the Better is to get all the concrete down and start concentrating on its street Level appearance its let down by it and i know Birmingham could do better but clearly its going in the wrong direction.

I think, with the exception of London and Edinburgh all our big cities are too industrial in their past. It needs some visionary people to say, no clear the land, make a park and add lakes, widen the streets and clean the buildings. This is a 50 year project and we jsut do not have the vision to allow this to happen.

I think, with the exception of London and Edinburgh all our big cities are too industrial in their past. It needs some visionary people to say, no clear the land, make a park and add lakes, widen the streets and clean the buildings. This is a 50 year project and we jsut do not have the vision to allow this to happen.

Yes i can see where you're comming from there but Birmingham is the one regional city what hasn't made any effort out of all the regional cities to make there streetscapes more acceptable and more clean with better interactive streets.



Theres no vibrance in Birmingham because of it.

Birmingham is the one regional city what hasn't made any effort out of all the regional cities to make there streetscapes more acceptable and more clean with better interactive streets.

I took you off ignore to see what cretinous crap you were coming out with this time and I wasn't disappointed. Why don't you read this before continuing to talk out of your arse as usual.

Birmingham Urban Design Strategy (http://www.urbandesigncompendium.co.uk/birminghamurbandesignstrategy)

Back on ignore...

I can't see what you have put for some reason. ^^

I can't see what you have put for some reason. ^^

I took you off ignore to see what cretinous crap you were coming out with this time and I wasn't disappointed. Why don't you read this before continuing to talk out of your arse as usual.

Birmingham Urban Design Strategy (http://www.urbandesigncompendium.co.uk/birminghamurbandesignstrategy)

Back on ignore...


I think he's Wiggles' mouthpiece. I get the feeling that they discuss an opinion and then attack together.

I think he's Wiggles' mouthpiece. I get the feeling that they discuss an opinion and then attack together.

:lol: have you lost things to say?

Well read this then if you can't open the link...

Birmingham Urban Design Strategy

Key Principles

■Creating a strategy to reconnect the city
■Transforming quality of place through public realm improvements

Details

BUDS sought to make the city easier to read, to enhance the streets and open spaces and to reinforce the areas of character. To achieve this it advocated enhancing gateways and landmarks, downgrading the inner ring road, increasing the activities at street level, improving the public realm and building on the assets of existing core areas.

This study provided the foundation for a host of initiatives that have been developed in the city in the 1990s. These include the Convention Quarter with Brindley Place, the Jewellery Quarter and Gun Quarter.

This document provided an effective tool against which all development control decisions could be made. This helped ensure the redevelopment of Birmingham was both strategic and integrated.


What about CABE's glowing assessment of the positives measures Birmingham has made to its urban realm. You going to argue with them?

The Birmingham City Centre Renewal (http://www.cabe.org.uk/case-studies/birmingham-city-centre-renewal)

The Birmingham City Centre Renewal scheme has created an exciting and distinctive city centre, with a series of public gardens and squares. Designed by Birmingham City Council.

As well as making the area unsafe for pedestrians, the road discouraged city development and created a plethora of empty sites, ugly car parks and buildings that turned their backs on the noise and pollution of the street. Its negative impacts, combined with the economic downturn of the 1980s, led Birmingham City Council to set in motion an ambitious programme to reverse the trends of the previous fifty years, and to recreate a central area where the vitality of city life would be restored.

After 15 years of policy measures within this programme the city has indeed been transformed. A series of connected schemes has been implemented to provide safe, attractive and interesting pedestrian routes covering a large proportion of the central area. The successful change from motorway traffic-dominated centre to a network of quiet leafy public squares and tree-lined streets is extraordinary.

Read this article.
Renaissance in Birmingham (http://www.rudi.net/pages/17727)

Read and LEARN before coming on here and making posts which are totally and utterly wrong!!!

My posts are not wrong, when was all this taken place?

The city of Birmingham is centrally located at the heart of England, where it serves as the regional capital for the West Midlands. It is the second largest city in the UK, with a population of over one million within its administrative boundary, and it sits within an urban conurbation of over five million people. Birmingham provides an example of how effective leadership and a successful urban design strategy can focus investment to create new and improved city squares and interconnected streets that can transform a city and its region.

5million people.

I would say the city is performing terribly, given it has a larger urban area than Madrid and Barcelona!

WTF was that figure doing in there?

Thats the regional population. It should say 2.5 million or there abouts.

I think, with the exception of London and Edinburgh all our big cities are too industrial in their past. It needs some visionary people to say, no clear the land, make a park and add lakes, widen the streets and clean the buildings. This is a 50 year project and we jsut do not have the vision to allow this to happen.

There planning to do this in Sheffield by demolishing castle market and this will reveal the old castle foundations. I think they are planning to turn the entire area into one big open space. I don't know the full details but it sounds interesting from what I've read on the Sheffield forum.

My posts are not wrong, when was all this taken place?

Your posts are totally wrong and just because you are unaware something hasn't taken place doesn't mean it hasn't!

Here is the full CABE analysis of the method and process by which Birmingham has transformed it's urban realm over a period of 15 years. Just so you and the other Leeds troll can't pretend you couldn't open the link and continue to plead ignorance.

Description

Covering 800ha, the regeneration of Birmingham city centre is an immense project. Set in the context of the 1990 City Centre Urban Design Strategy, the overall aim of the different elements of this transformation has been to create a 'barrier free' city, where people can easily see and get to where they want to go and which is accessible to those with prams or wheelchairs.

Within this context a new and distinctive centre and a series of new public squares including Victoria Square (see separate case study), Chamberlain Square and Centenary Square have been created, with streets reclaimed for pedestrians, subways infilled, roadways recreated or pushed underground and traffic re-organised.

Interventions have been designed to encourage pedestrian movement in the city's streets and open spaces, and to create new routes over the 'concrete collar', through buildings, through new and existing open spaces, along and over the city's canals, while restricting vehicular access.

These measures have been guided by a raft of integrated principles including landmarks as route markers, easy physical linkages, (encouraging street level activity in buildings), visual continuity through co-ordinated paving materials, street furniture and public art, access to canals and activity at their edges, specially commissioned street lighting, improvement of facades along key streets and softening the city and enhancing open space with trees and planting as well as creating green linkages on routes.

Design process

This large regeneration project has a complex history. Engineers had a profound influence on Birmingham starting from the 1960s, with the building of roads to bring fast, free-flowing traffic into the centre, including the inner ring road.

Coupled with redevelopment projects this seriously damaged the city's traditional urban form, and much of its rich Victorian and Edwardian character was lost. By the 1980s the decline of manufacturing and the council's desire to promote the city as a business tourism centre led to a City Centre Strategy (1987), endorsed the following year at the Highbury Initiative. Following this three day brainstorming event, strategies were produced by LDR Consultants for pedestrianisation and open space (1988), and by Tibbalds Colbourne Karski Williams for urban design (1989).

This City Centre Design Strategy, was incorporated, along with quarter plans, into the 1993 Unitary Development Plan before the public inquiry process, and its influence was further strengthened through merging BCC's newly created department of Planning and Architecture with its urban design division. BCC began its programme of 'quarter plans' in 1994 to preserve the city's best heritage while stimulating new development and activity, and, whether done by BCC itself or by external consultants, they share the same principles to involve local people in planning for real and create developer interest.

Before Highbury, BCC had identified the need to shift the inner ring road's emphasis towards serving the city centre as well as the quarters outside the ring, re-naming it 'The Queensway'. The first break in this 'concrete collar' was at Paradise Circus, with the lowering of the road and a new pedestrian bridge linking Centenary Square to the rest of the city. The building of the International Convention Centre, National Indoor Arena and Hyatt Hotel was followed by dramatic improvements to the canalside, and other major developments including commercial Brindleyplace and the new Victoria Square have taken place over the last 10 years as part of a policy of getting rid of traffic from the city centre.

Funding has come from many and varied sources with major projects supported by European funding representing a multi-billion pound investment programme in squares, pedestrian streets and remodelled roads, underwritten by BCC's mainstream capital budget and EU grants (nearly 50% of the total) plus BCC Planning Committee's City Centre Enhancement budget.

Evaluation

The numbers of people and levels of activity in Birmingham's central streets and public spaces are a testament to the success of the city centre regeneration project. Vast numbers of people are on the move on foot, some in a hurry going to and from places of work as well as others moving at a more leisurely pace.

People use a variety of streets and newly created open spaces - main shopping streets, canalsides with cafés and restaurants, business areas, and the gardens and streets surrounding the cathedral where improvement works are nearing completion - many others use newly created spaces to meet, talk, play, eat, skateboard, travel by boat, cycle, read, juggle, or sit and watch.

The city centre is a hotch-potch of colours, styles, textures, materials and heights, with the interventions adding to this diversity, sometimes relating to it or to dominant features nearby and sometimes not, and Birmingham's former image of a confused and cluttered space has not been completely dispelled.

Co-ordination on design, planning, implementation and maintenance is an unresolved issue particularly in relation to issues of clutter and quality. However, continuity is now a dominant characteristic, achieved by inserting links for routes wherever possible, even through public buildings, most notably the Mail Box, The Convention Centre and Paradise Forum, thereby creating interesting and lively indoor spaces.

Comfort, ease and interest for pedestrians is integrated in different sections of the routes, with generous provision of seats, litter bins, signs, lighting, ramps and surfaces that are easy to walk over. As a result not only do large numbers use the spaces, but they include people of all ages, including the very young, the old and the disabled. There is little litter, which is a major achievement for a busy city centre area and an indication of a good sense of ownership.

The way in which the dominance of cars has been altered is particularly striking. The pedestrian bridge linking Paradise Forum to Centenary Square seems, from the point of view of the pedestrian, to continue a seamless route, and the fact that it crosses a busy dual carriageway road is almost imperceptible. Similarly refurbishing and imaginative lighting has dramatically improved the quality of the underpass to the Mail Box, integrating it more closely, both visually and physically, with the wider pedestrian network.

The regeneration of the city centre has attracted large numbers of overseas visitors. Birmingham is now the most visited location outside London, and with major events held in the conference and sport facilities. The new lease of life will doubtless continue to make Birmingham a successful 21st century city and regional centre, and a shining example to countless other cities.

5million people.

I would say the city is performing terribly, given it has a larger urban area than Madrid and Barcelona!

WTF was that figure doing in there?

agreed, lousy or what. :bash:

From the way you have wrote that i assume you're a girl no doubt

:gossip:


look at every tower block in Birmingham all i see is car parks and concrete towers or is it my imagination :crazy:

It's your imagination. 30/40 years ago you would have been right about the amount of tower blocks, but not now. But to me, a big city should have its share of tower blocks - just like Leeds has, which is the daft thing you going on about Birmingham like that. :nuts:

:gossip:




It's your imagination. 30/40 years ago you would have been right about the amount of tower blocks, but not now. But to me, a big city should have its share of tower blocks - just like Leeds has, which is the daft thing you going on about Birmingham like that. :nuts:

errm, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Brum_skyline_numbered.jpg

Thats still a better shot than any I've seen of Leeds skyline....

And half of them you have numbered arnt even council housing towers....

"errm,"

Welcome to Leeds, such a dense skyline - of tower blocks! :hahano: I can't believe I'm even arguing about tower blocks - I even LIKE the dense 60s Leeds skyline! What has SSC come to for me?! :cry:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u85/jinky-org/j.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/8/81/20091026175749!Tower_blocks_in_Leeds.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3478/3931607913_10112fa073.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3639/3382860162_df53d7812d.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3643/3703663166_de48dc88fc.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u85/jinky-org/p10004231wv0.jpg

Those Leeds pics make it look like a right shithole!

errm, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Brum_skyline_numbered.jpg

1 - 1972 - resi
2 - 1974 - office
3 - 1972 - resi
4 - 2005 - hotel / resi
5 - 1974 - office
6 - 197? - office
7 - 196? - resi (demolished soon)
8 - 2006 - resi
9 - 1972 - office
10 - 18?? - college tower
11 - 196? - office
12 - 1964 (2006 reno) - resi
13 - 195? - office
14 - 1974 - office
15 - 1966 - telecom
16 - 196? - office
17 - 196? (2007 reno) office
18 - 1991 - office

These "tower blocks" are mostly "office blocks" which Brum excels at. Lots of them aren't even on this pano. Office blocks are what Leeds seriosly lacks and the assumption that there appear to more "office workers" up there is completely way off the mark. What do they work in? Low rise cowsheds?

With proper investment, most of those Office blocks could be re-clad and Brum would look quite smart indeed.

Oh and thanks to Larven and Langur for complimenting Glasgow. It's far from perfect, but we seem to be going in the right direction.:)

I think he's Wiggles' mouthpiece. I get the feeling that they discuss an opinion and then attack together.

They do!!! Something weird happened on this forum a few weeks ago when I declined Leeds Troll who asked to be 'my friend' (bizarre I know!!) ... and somehow, I managed to see conversations between them all, on how they post things to wind people up, even accepting the fact that Leeds was way behind the big cities with their city centre developments. :nuts:

even accepting the fact that Leeds was way behind the big cities with their city centre developments.

Like the rebuilding of the main transport hub or the complete pedestrianisation of the principal shopping streets.

They do!!! Something weird happened on this forum a few weeks ago when I declined Leeds Troll who asked to be 'my friend' (bizarre I know!!) ... and somehow, I managed to see conversations between them all, on how they post things to wind people up, even accepting the fact that Leeds was way behind the big cities with their city centre developments. :nuts:

What is that bullshit you're comming out with?

Thats still a better shot than any I've seen of Leeds skyline....

And half of them you have numbered arnt even council housing towers....

I did not list any of them towers they were already listed.

Those Leeds pics make it look like a right shithole!



1 - 1972 - resi
2 - 1974 - office
3 - 1972 - resi
4 - 2005 - hotel / resi
5 - 1974 - office
6 - 197? - office
7 - 196? - resi (demolished soon)
8 - 2006 - resi
9 - 1972 - office
10 - 18?? - college tower
11 - 196? - office
12 - 1964 (2006 reno) - resi
13 - 195? - office
14 - 1974 - office
15 - 1966 - telecom
16 - 196? - office
17 - 196? (2007 reno) office
18 - 1991 - office

These "tower blocks" are mostly "office blocks" which Brum excels at. Lots of them aren't even on this pano. Office blocks are what Leeds seriosly lacks and the assumption that there appear to more "office workers" up there is completely way off the mark. What do they work in? Low rise cowsheds?

14 of them towers been from the 1960s and 1970s is that really somthing to be proud of :ohno: they all look terrible so they have nothing going on for them apart from been a mark on the skyline. :ohno:

Birmingham is a joke, nothing but a city of post war crap, i think they need to do birmingham a favour and bomb the towers like 911 if you're not going to do it atleast that way you will get all that concrete garbage down.

"errm,"

Welcome to Leeds, such a dense skyline - of tower blocks! :hahano: I can't believe I'm even arguing about tower blocks - I even LIKE the dense 60s Leeds skyline! What has SSC come to for me?! :cry:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u85/jinky-org/j.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/8/81/20091026175749!Tower_blocks_in_Leeds.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3478/3931607913_10112fa073.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3639/3382860162_df53d7812d.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3643/3703663166_de48dc88fc.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u85/jinky-org/p10004231wv0.jpg

I think you would find them tower blocks are out of the City centre apart from opal 3, Sky plaza and tower north central, Little london is on the northern edge of city centre, so there not really in the centre of Leeds.

14 of them towers been from the 1960s and 1970s is that really somthing to be proud of :ohno: they all look terrible so they have nothing going on for them apart from been a mark on the skyline. :ohno:

There's nothing wrong with having blocks from the past. Does everything have to be ultramodern or ancient on the skyline? Architectural diversity and quality on a skyline is one of the main factors to what makes a great skyline. Just like open-mindedness and historical appreciation make a great individual. :|

I think the vast majority of people would disagree with you when you say the likes of the Rotunda, Metropolitan House and Alpha Tower are terrible and have no effect on the skyline. After all, the Rotunda should never be listed, nor should Alpha Tower be locally listed either. Whether it is one of the most innovative office buildings that paved the way for those in the future or not, Metropolitan House has the curse of being from the 1970s and should be demolished.

Such a shame that you're too quick to curse supposed mistakes of the past when Leeds is too busy creating problems for itself in the future with the likes of Opal, BWP and Sky Plaza. :|

14 of them towers been from the 1960s and 1970s is that really somthing to be proud of :ohno:

How much of New York is pre-80's? Is that shit? Who cares when they were built? Birmingham is continuing to regenerate its skyline, gradually removing the shit stuff, of which there is still some there granted, and replacing it with shiny new office towers, unlike Leeds.

Birmingham is a joke, nothing but a city of post war crap, i think they need to do birmingham a favour and bomb the towers like 911 if you're not going to do it atleast that way you will get all that concrete garbage down.

Really? You want to see thousands of people die? Perhaps its bed time for you now buddy. School tomorrow.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Quite funny winding them up now!

The SECC in Glasgow Wigs .... the initials give it away really, is an EXHIBITION & CONFERENCE centre ...... and I think we know where the biggest & busiest Exhibition Centre is in the UK .... don't we?!?! :lol: ... a clue ... it has 2.5 million visitors each year ... and is in the middle of England!!!

The ICC in Birmingham ..... again, the initials give it away, is a CONVENTION CENTRE ..... with 300% more conferences than in Harrogate .... oh yes, sorry .... Harrogate is in Leeds now, I forgot .... I'll re-name it Harrogleeds to avoid any confusion!!! Easy when you know how, eh Wigs?!?!

The worrying thing is, people like you post all this crap to Wikipedia & the like.

Lets face it .... as things stands today ... Leeds has no World class Convention Centre .... no World class Exhibition Centre .... no World class multi-purpose Arena .... no World class Concert Hall .... in fact, no World class anything!!!! :lol::lol::lol:

THIS THREAD IS SHIT AND SANDBLAST AND LEEDS TROLL ARE C*NTS.


Sorry, I have typing tourettes.

THIS THREAD IS SHIT AND SANDBLAST AND LEEDS TROLL ARE C*NTS.


Sorry, I have typing tourettes.

The thread title gives it away really AndrewC .... was never going to be a 'happy gathering' here!! If you don't like a good old fashioned spat, then best steer clear :)

Originally Posted by Sandblast.....Something weird happened on this forum a few weeks ago when I declined Leeds Troll who asked to be 'my friend' (bizarre I know!!) ... and somehow, I managed to see conversations between them all, on how they post things to wind people up, even accepting the fact that Leeds was way behind the big cities with their city centre developments.


What is that bullshit you're comming out with?


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Here it is for the World to see ^^ :lol:

Every keystroke you make is stored FOR EVER!!!

Leeds Troll ... you are either a compulsive liar mate .... or a little bit weird .... or a combination of the two :)

I know, I'm only joking. This thread isn't shit. You are cunts though. In a way. I'm sure you're lovely people in the real world.

I know, I'm only joking. This thread isn't shit. You are cunts though. In a way. I'm sure you're lovely people in the real world.

I've been insulted in better places than this! :lol:

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Quite funny winding them up now!

The SECC in Glasgow Wigs .... the initials give it away really, is an EXHIBITION & CONFERENCE centre ...... and I think we know where the biggest & busiest Exhibition Centre is in the UK .... don't we?!?! :lol: ... a clue ... it has 2.5 million visitors each year ... and is in the middle of England!!!

The ICC in Birmingham ..... again, the initials give it away, is a CONVENTION CENTRE ..... with 300% more conferences than in Harrogate .... oh yes, sorry .... Harrogate is in Leeds now, I forgot .... I'll re-name it Harrogleeds to avoid any confusion!!! Easy when you know how, eh Wigs?!?!

The worrying thing is, people like you post all this crap to Wikipedia & the like.

Lets face it .... as things stands today ... Leeds has no World class Convention Centre .... no World class Exhibition Centre .... no World class multi-purpose Arena .... no World class Concert Hall .... in fact, no World class anything!!!! :lol::lol::lol:

A simple, easy check reveals that the HIC is also a conference and *exhibition* centre. So to be truly compared to what Birmingham has you need to add the HIC to Harrogate's (sorry, Leeds') other conference and exhibition centres and then do the same for Birmingham.... Oh dear... :ohno:

Actually, may as well add in these too (along with the ICC, NIA, NEC and LG Arena) as they're all about the same distance from Brum as Harrogate is from Leeds:
Telford International Centre http://www.southwatereventgroup.com/the-international-centre
Stoneleigh Park http://www.stoneleighpark.com/
Ricoh Arena http://www.ricoharena.com/facilities.htm
Xcel Centre http://xcelcentre.co.uk/

I wonder how that Harrogate one compares to The International Centre in Telford? The TIC looks better anyway ;)

http://www.southwatereventgroup.com/the-international-centre

Edit, Darn it JPD, you edited!

Edit, Darn it JPD, you edited!

;)

Strange how certain Leeds forumers disappear when they've lost a debate ..... CBeebies finished a few hours ago, so milk & bed time probabaly explains it!

JayPeeDee ... thanks for your input too.... and Telford does have better Conference facilities than Leeds .... a far better ice rink too! :lol:

they're all about the same distance from Brum as Harrogate is from Leeds

Telford is nearly 50km from Birmingham. Harrogate Town Centre is 22km from Central Leeds.

But how far from the edge of the metro area? About as far away as it is from the edge of the next Shire town. There are regular services from Telford Cetral to New Street so you can't really discount it to be fair.

Telford is nearly 50km from Birmingham. Harrogate Town Centre is 22km from Central Leeds.

No ... you're wrong .... using old Wigseyboys Satnav, Harrogate is about 70km from Leeds .....

Any self respecting Harrogate citizen would recoil in horror at the thought of being part of Leeds .... it is a separate town, in a different county ... North Yorkshire!! The HIC is part of the fabric of Harrogate .... Leeds needs to develop it's own cultural, convention & exhibition facilities .... after all, Leeds is trying to build it's own Arena ... why not settle for the one in Sheffield down the road? :)

Telford is nearly 50km from Birmingham. Harrogate Town Centre is 22km from Central Leeds.

So?

Strange how certain Leeds forumers disappear when they've lost a debate ..... CBeebies finished a few hours ago, so milk & bed time probabaly explains it!


good one :lol:

So your point is redundant...

Sandblast, I am a Harrogate citizen. Harrogate is traditionally part of the West Riding, so many feel anger that it has been put into North Yorkshire. Most people also realise that Harrogate is dependent upon Leeds for its economic success. It would have declined a long time ago had it not been for the economic strength of Leeds.

Leeds No.1, I am a Telford citizen. Telford is full of people formerly of Birmingham and the Black Country. Most people also realise that Telford is dependent upon Birmingham for its economic success. It would never have existed if had it not been for the economic strength of Birmingham.

I am a Lichfeldian. If it was not for Birmingham then Lichfield would still be a small travellers town instead of a large and affluent commuter city (along with its neighbours Tamworth and Burntwood), serving Birmingham.

Birmingham is a joke, nothing but a city of post war crap, i think they need to do birmingham a favour and bomb the towers like 911 if you're not going to do it atleast that way you will get all that concrete garbage down.

I know this thread is all pinch of salt and all that, but come on, that really is a disgusting comment! :ohno:

^^

hardly. its true tho. Manchester's city centre benefited from the central bit being blown away, which got redeveloped and improved. Birmingham easily has the worst city centre out of any city in the UK, with poor streetscapes, and horric concrete shite everywhere. It is the city that would have benefitted the most from something like that.

^^

hardly. its true tho. Manchester's city centre benefited from the central bit being blown away, which got redeveloped and improved. Birmingham easily has the worst city centre out of any city in the UK, with poor streetscapes, and horric concrete shite everywhere. It is the city that would have benefitted the most from something like that.

Inventing new words too now??? ;)

Dunno where you get this *worst* city centre of any UK city balls from either. You clearly haven't spent any quality time there.

oh come of it. its well known. and on visiting, it fitted all the national stereotypes. Large chunks of it are like what you see in small new town places with 60s stuff everywhere and no proper architecture or streets. Its a great shame really.

As already said, birmingham does have infrastructure more befiiting of what you would expect from a larger urban area - but in real terms of what people really desire in their daily lifes, the important things, it fails miserably, and add to that the depressing ghastly soulless centre, and lack of any vibrancy, its why people are leaving in droves.

^^

hardly. its true tho. Manchester's city centre benefited from the central bit being blown away, which got redeveloped and improved. Birmingham easily has the worst city centre out of any city in the UK, with poor streetscapes, and horric concrete shite everywhere. It is the city that would have benefitted the most from something like that.

Fair point, i'll give you that with the manc example. I think Leedstroll should definately not be in charge of any city regeneration schemes any time soon however. ;)

oh come of it. its well known. and on visiting, it fitted all the national stereotypes. Large chunks of it are like what you see in small new town places with 60s stuff everywhere and no proper architecture or streets. Its a great shame really.

Admittedly there's a lot of postwar buildings around. It's no secret but to dismiss it all as non-architecture inappropriate for any city. There are plenty of examples of quality postwar architecture in cities everywhere that many people are too quick to shove simply because it's made from concrete.

And as much as there's lots of postwar architecture, the only chunk of it which is like a newtown centre is the central library... You must be imagining the rest of it...

oh come of it. its well known. and on visiting, it fitted all the national stereotypes. Large chunks of it are like what you see in small new town places with 60s stuff everywhere and no proper architecture or streets. Its a great shame really.

As already said, birmingham does have infrastructure more befiiting of what you would expect from a larger urban area - but in real terms of what people really desire in their daily lifes, the important things, it fails miserably, and add to that the depressing ghastly soulless centre, and lack of any vibrancy, its why people are leaving in droves.

Jeez Wiggs. I can find the same crap and depression you refer to in Leeds TBH. I spent 3 years living in Leeds and found it to be a great city, but it certainly has its fair share of concrete shit too. As for quality of life, there is little difference between Leeds and Birmingham, although Birmingham has much better amenities and facilites. Don't pretend Leeds is any better, I've lived in both, unlike you.

^^

hardly. its true tho. Manchester's city centre benefited from the central bit being blown away, which got redeveloped and improved. Birmingham easily has the worst city centre out of any city in the UK, with poor streetscapes, and horric concrete shite everywhere. It is the city that would have benefitted the most from something like that.

Plans were in the pipeline to redevelop it anyway. Thankfully the IRA helped to make the process a little faster. :)

No ... you're wrong .... using old Wigseyboys Satnav, Harrogate is about 70km from Leeds .....

Any self respecting Harrogate citizen would recoil in horror at the thought of being part of Leeds .... it is a separate town, in a different county ... North Yorkshire!! The HIC is part of the fabric of Harrogate .... Leeds needs to develop it's own cultural, convention & exhibition facilities .... after all, Leeds is trying to build it's own Arena ... why not settle for the one in Sheffield down the road? :)

Half of Harrogate works in Leeds.

Birmingham is a characterless dive, but I actually really like Alpha Tower. It has an elegant, clean simplicity and is probably the best building in Birmingham from the last 50 years.

That's the most positive comment I've heard on Alpha Tower. It does need a little bit of tlc - such as getting rid of the crap on the roof that makes it look so cluttered.

If Birmingham is a characterless dive then what would you call Leeds? Hellish black hole of character?

Half of Harrogate works in Leeds.

Maybe they should move there if it's so wonderful, and save all that pointless travelling burning up scarce resources.

I've been to Birmingham a few times and what I saw there was pretty impressive. It has a large city feel about it with mile after mile of dense urbanity and undoubtably deserves it's second city status. What it doesn't have however is loads of fields close to it's centre which I have seen elsewhere.

The problem Birmingham faces is that it boomed when architecture was probably at its worst but this doesnt mean that Birmingham is not a great city. Its got a timeline of amazing architecture that is unrivaled by other cities and gets forgotten on here over its uglier concrete buildings. The difference is the concrete blocks can be pulled down giving some very prime spots in the city for developmets and this has already started occuring.

1800's - Council House
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1164/1351954127_0acef1b966.jpg

Town Hall
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1085/533686425_3288aa90e3.jpg

New Hall Street
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Bell_Edison_Telephone_Building.jpg/800px-Bell_Edison_Telephone_Building.jpg

Victoria Law Courts
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Victoria_Law_Courts_Birmingham.jpg/800px-Victoria_Law_Courts_Birmingham.jpg

1900's - Methodist Central Hall
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3550/3362643106_6cb0bf4f4f.jpg

1910's - Island House
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Island_House%2C_Birmingham.jpg/800px-Island_House%2C_Birmingham.jpg



1930's - Baskerville House
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Baskerville_House_from_Broad_Street%2C_Birmingham.jpg/800px-Baskerville_House_from_Broad_Street%2C_Birmingham.jpg

1960's - Rotunda
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3092/2904674372_1abe65dc44.jpg

1970's - Alpha Tower
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2189/2281500879_ef108601f9.jpg

1980's - Hyatt Birmingham
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4420142212_99e895ea62.jpg

1990's - Colmore Gate
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2089/2275659964_06ff613235.jpg

2000's - Selfridges
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4059/4436435448_0f05618f54_o.jpg

Oh and as for Leeds it really isnt the greatest place on earth, it doesnt have the biggest and best this that and everything. It also has some very ugly parts that don't get shown much on here. What is up with the train stations main entrance, oh and the horrid leeds shopping plaza. Oh and dont get me started on legoland.

^Great buildings, and great list. I'd take Colmore Gate out of there though. It is not a particuarly attractive building, and looks like something from Basingstoke.

Colmore Gate is a very rare example of good post-modernism and is a very attractive building.

Council House
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1164/1351954127_0acef1b966.jpg




The most inappropriately named building in the UK?

I thought that when I was writing it but it is still called the council house lol.
As for Colmore Gate it is such a rare style of building that I felt it needed to be included.

There is no doubt Birmingham has some mighty fine civic buildings in large squares.
Manchester's finest are too hidden for me but very grand non the less.
Liverpool has the Graces
Glasgow very good civic buildings and squares
Edinburgh, well, no need to say.

Leeds has nothing to compare with this.

The equivalents in Derby and Nottingham are also called 'Council House'.

There is no doubt Birmingham has some mighty fine civic buildings in large squares.
Manchester's finest are too hidden for me but very grand non the less.
Liverpool has the Graces
Glasgow very good civic buildings and squares
Edinburgh, well, no need to say.

Agreed.

Leeds has nothing to compare with this.

That's simply not true. What about Leeds Town Hall for a start?

http://www.leedsshines.co.uk/city/Leeds_town_hall_by_night.jpg

Or the Corn Exchange?

http://www.essential-architecture.com/IMAGES/Leeds_Corn_Exchange.jpg

Why do people insist on talking such complete utter shite on this thread?

^^ To try and stop it on other threads. Doesn't work very well though.

Nah, Corn Exchange is nice..but no cigar. Looks like a market town hall...

Town Hall bit better but you are over compensating with the number of columns. Napoleon syndrome.

Must try better.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/content/images/2005/02/24/great_hall_leeds_uni_300_300x300.jpg
http://www.eatstudent.co.uk/files/PageImages-Image-24.jpg
http://leeds.diarystar.co.uk/images/leeds-civic-hall12.jpg
http://www.travel-photography.eu/large/e0011756/

Trying better? :p

Subliving.

The Corn Exchange is a fine building, thoroughly deserving of its Grade I listed status. I'm not keen on the brickwork because you see the faux-stone style on so many buildings and ruins their appearance. And even though I know that the Corn Exchange uses real stone for once, I can't help but be reminded of the fake tacky ones...

I've always thought the Corn Exchange's best side is the inside. That cavernous space is just without compare when you see it in person...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/195/464888409_4a72d7d376.jpg

Subliving.

No ... you're wrong .... using old Wigseyboys Satnav, Harrogate is about 70km from Leeds .....

Any self respecting Harrogate citizen would recoil in horror at the thought of being part of Leeds .... it is a separate town, in a different county ... North Yorkshire!! The HIC is part of the fabric of Harrogate .... Leeds needs to develop it's own cultural, convention & exhibition facilities .... after all, Leeds is trying to build it's own Arena ... why not settle for the one in Sheffield down the road? :)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2768/4523493283_eb7783a574_b.jpg hardly 70km :| by my standards thats 24km, 15mile.

Are there any pretty girls in Leeds?

I saw a picture of a Mancunian girl recently and she looked like a spit-roast pig! :uh:

Are there any pretty girls in Leeds?

I saw a picture of a Mancunian girl recently and she looked like a spit-roast pig! :uh:

Yes but whats that got to do with what i have just put? :nuts:

Sandblast harrogate is in a different county but if you look at a map of the UK theres nothing above Leeds for miles but open countryside, and because of that there local major City is Leeds therefore they travel there for work etc, plus most of Yorkshire travels to Leeds for work even places like barnsley, wakefield, bradford and pontefract and even huddersfield do, most of these places rely on Leeds for work.

What i don't get is the way sandblast only can see the Student towers in Leeds and associates Leeds with them, and then you say that the concrete shit in Birmingham is okay? answer that for me Sandblast if you don't care about what a building looks like and what a city looks like then why do you go on about Leeds student towers?

Glasgow very good civic buildings and squares

Glasgow's squares are of terrible standards. Good buildings, but the squares themselves are awful. Taking Glasgow's most prominent and perhaps its only notable square, George Square, one can see the disgraceful standard of the surfacing:

http://images.zagbot.com/europe/pics/Scotland-glasgow-george-square.jpg

Compare this to the main square in Leeds, City Square, and your point really does not stand.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1213/542639689_695256a2ee.jpg

Glasgow may have good architecture, but when it comes to public realm it does not compare to Leeds, Sheffield or Manchester which have all invested much more in their public spaces than Glasgow.

Are there any pretty girls in Leeds?

http://www.aidan.co.uk/md/EnnLdsSxSign5Y23.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4746659.stm

weeeeak...

been to Glasgow recently?

didn't think so.

weeeeak...

been to Glasgow recently?

didn't think so.

Hes correct though why are you ignoring it and arguing back?

here, you spent half an hour replying to yourself up there ^^ don't think you know nowt about nowt.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4523667481_2d26b5a6f4_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2785/4523667391_45c15b2d39_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4049/4523667331_d53ac69eb5_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4040/4523667229_9cb5b3fcb1_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4524298606_b5e163ef95_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2707/4524298498_4050572412_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4050/4523666935_9850f19ebe_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2778/4524298290_e82329c05d_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4524299184_365af0d8cf_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4014/4524299078_9bc1e57ab8_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2783/4524299546_cd5b062462_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2757/4523667951_95c1e6730f_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4033/4523667875_e6de487318_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2732/4523667727_401516700b_o.jpg

oh, and, whut?

Mate thats a bunch of streetscapes? i think you need to go read what he said again.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2664/3977039347_27e4dd4a08.jpg http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/13848101.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3432/3390703272_96e80fb5a9.jpg?v=0 http://digart.img.digart.pl/data/img/vol4/3/4/download/4138249.jpg http://www.rhinocarhire.com/getfile/24c4ce12-ac1c-44b9-a2b0-e08a13b313c6/Leeds-Civic-Hall.aspx http://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/styles/images/common/working_clip_image002.jpg

in the rips are Royal Exchange Square, Nelson Mandela Place, St Andrews Square, Merchant Square

Glasgow's squares are of terrible standards. Good buildings, but the squares themselves are awful. Taking Glasgow's most prominent and perhaps its only notable square, George Square, one can see the disgraceful standard of the surfacing:

...Glasgow may have good architecture, but when it comes to public realm it does not compare to Leeds, Sheffield or Manchester which have all invested much more in their public spaces than Glasgow.

That hasn't proved anything on the note of squares though, which is what the point referred to.

i thought your point was about investment in public realm? sorry if slate, whin and granite aren't good enough for you. what is leeds paved in, lapis lazuli?

Gold, sweetie, gold. ;)

Subliving.

from elizabeth duke.

Gold is gold, my dear.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/commodities/11631/default.stm

Subliving.

yeah, and brass is brassy

As anyone from Glasgow would know.

Subliving.

(p.s. Rather like Glasgow. :p)

we use brass as pavement studs for the blind

(p.s. i know ;P)

Well, we use platinum. So nerr. And you mix the brass with shite and death.

Subliving.

(Isn't irony a great thing? Bashing one another city senseless whilst actually quite liking it... was what I was trying to show with the Birmingham pics earlier. Everyone knows I'm a big fan of the city, but it's so easy to show anothers' bad side.)

:lol:

(indeed :) pity the fool who takes it seriously)

Cool, Leeds had got TWO public squares. :banana:

Cool, Leeds had got TWO public squares. :banana:

It has 8+ public sqaures

It has 8+ public sqaures

Ok, name them. With photos.

and a graph

Ok, just name them then. Photos will take you ages and its well past your bedtime.

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/18/35/183544_2e22ba16.jpg
http://www.rhinocarhire.com/getfile/24c4ce12-ac1c-44b9-a2b0-e08a13b313c6/Leeds-Civic-Hall.aspx
http://pdberger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/city%20square.jpg
http://www.homerton.cam.ac.uk/cms/scripts/fckeditor/images/1_1.jpg

Four without trying and several beers?

Subliving.

Ok, name them. With photos.

City square, civic square, armouries square, granary wharf square, park square, queens square, lamway square, brewery wharf square, kirkgate square, soon wellington place etc.

Plus, our favourite, Dortmund Square! It's our homage to Birmingham. ;)

Subliving.

Oh, I guess there's Victoria Gardens as well? Would that count?

Subliving.

Oh, I guess there's Victoria Gardens as well? Would that count?

Subliving.

Yes

Erm... it's outside the Town Hall... How much do you know about Leeds? :p

Subliving.

Erm... it's outside the Town Hall... How much do you know about Leeds? :p

Subliving.

:lol: just noticed yeah im thinking of st George's square lol :D my bad

Was thinking about City Squares earlier actually, randomly. Guildhall Square in Portsmouth needs repaving BADLY. Its covered in Gum too. Compare it to other squares like Eastside Plaza which is mint.

Edit:

Leeds is Shit.
No, Birmingham is Shit.
No, Leeds is Shit.
No, Birmingham is Shit.
Portsmouths guildhall Square needs repaving. CO CO CO CO COMBO BREAKER!

LOL ^^ Birmingham is shitter ;)

:O

How DARE you say any other city other than Leeds or Birmingham is shit???

Subliving.

To be fair, I never said Pompey was shit, I just made a constructive criticism about my own city :lol:

fuck the lot of you! Leeds is the be all end all i decided now shut the fuck up.

City square, civic square, armouries square, granary wharf square, park square, queens square, lamway square, brewery wharf square, kirkgate square, soon wellington place etc.

Lamway square?
Brewery wharf sqaure?
Kirkgate square?

Lamway
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4014/4523855469_4e974a0c40_o.png
Kirkgate
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4056/4523858339_768cf0294d_o.jpg
Brewery
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4523855447_6f7dd9511d_o.png

Kirkgate is more a green patch of land near the centre of Leeds than a square, Brewery Wharf is more road than public square and Lam Way is a garden, no? Start again.

Well I wouldn't call Kirkgate or Lam Way Squares, but you have managed to miss some definite squares- Hanover Square, Trevelyan Square and Central Square.

Those Glasgow pics a great, but there needs to be alot more trees in the city centre.

Well I wouldn't call Kirkgate or Lam Way Squares, but you have managed to miss some definite squares- Hanover Square, Trevelyan Square and Central Square.

Hanover square, is that classed as city centre? And where's Central Square?

Those Glasgow pics a great, but there needs to be alot more trees in the city centre.

theres a Glasgow (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=670158) thread in the world forums if you want to see pics of the city (rather than streetview) :)

COME TO LEEDS ..... YORKSHIRE'S ANSWER TO MANHATTAN!

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/913LeedsPanorama_pic1.jpg

"THE CITY WITH EVERYTHING ..... BUT OFFERS NOTHING!" (UNLESS YOU LIKE LEGO!!!) :lol:

COME TO LEEDS ..... YORKSHIRE'S ANSWER TO MANHATTAN!

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/913LeedsPanorama_pic1.jpg

"THE CITY WITH EVERYTHING ..... BUT OFFERS NOTHING!" (UNLESS YOU LIKE LEGO!!!) :lol:

Excuse me? I think you got brick confused with plastic, brick is way too good for Leeds. :lol:

But in all seriousness I live in Leeds and I think it is a good city, and although I don't live in Birmingham I'm sure it is a good city as-well. Both cities are highly regarded as the top cities in the UK to live and shop and do business etc.

On a side note Birmingham has the worst new builds in Britain, yes Sky Plaza is a pile of crap but at least these buildings are student flats. While Birmingham advertises luxurious apartments, what is there excuse? Answer: its Bir-minger-ham.

Birmingham has the worst new builds in Britain

Orion aside, which are the others?

If you're going to count Hanover, may as well count Woodhouse and Blenheim Squares as well!

Perhaps this one???

A couple of pics from today. This really isn't the easiest to photograph, or I just wasn't thinking straight.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4432290137_483668cb31_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4432291971_cec0115486_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2791/4432293491_f4f4bce335_b.jpg

Or this?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3662/3486335239_67b91e685e_b.jpg

Maybe you're refering to this shit newbuild?

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w314/concretelover/alke5.jpg

Or this?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3645/3349979950_ca86f256fb_b.jpg

If you're gunna use 45 Church Street, at least use one of my prettier pictures. :eek:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2548/3679448526_b65a0d6b90_b.jpg

???

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/4450824861_6c2dbcfb18_b.jpg

If you're gunna use 45 Church Street, at least use one of my prettier pictures. :eek:

Muchos apologies!!

Birmingham has the worst new builds in Britain

Please continue.

On a side note Birmingham has the worst new builds in Britain, yes Sky Plaza is a pile of crap but at least these buildings are student flats. While Birmingham advertises luxurious apartments, what is there excuse? Answer: its Bir-minger-ham.

Since when has "they're student flats" been an excuse for shoddy design? The likes of Sky Plaza, Opal and BWP have all gone through exactly the same planning processes and it's the planners that have approved them things to go ahead. Broadcasting Place shows what can be achieved, irrespective of usage. And that's ignoring the masses of faceless apartment blocks that have gone up around Leeds that are going to prove to be a huge problem in only a few years time.

Yeah you are right they are nice buildings, its a shame none of these buildings have a prominent role on the sky-line as they are much better than the taller buildings in Birmingham. My issue is when I see images of Birmingham skyline they are all 60's/70's looking, which is fine as it is to be expected of most cities. However there are too many grey 60's buildings which do absolutely nothing, when these go I'm sure Birmingham will have a great skyline.

The proposed (Birmingham) buildings are certainly of excellent quality/standard and will do Birmingham justice, more-so compared to the new tower blocks in the centre which do nothing more than further my negative view on Birmingham Skyline.

..........


Can anyone find a new build in Birmingham between 60-100m that are better than the two latest Leeds new builds?

Broadcasting place (69M) vs ********
http://www.flickr.com/photos/syman/4373083939/

Candle House (75m) vs *******
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cliffordstead/4417381590/

Will be interesting to see if Birmingham can really compete.