Sorry jrb, 10 isn't a bigger number than 506,319 :pet:

Hmmm. You do have a valid points Kids. I'll have to do the maths again. :nuts:

I chose that specific topic because i was researching my heritage. I am from Liverpool, I am mixed race, and i was researching contemporary and historic communities in the city and the overall social-identity of the city (it interests me, nothing really pathetic about that). I assure you i do not have an identity crisis.
The majority of the people in my study highlighted a 'scouse' identity over an 'english' identity, but still they felt British (worth a mention, the people in the study highlighted a greater connection to the Irish identity rather than English). You may find it pathetic that 'scouse' people have this 'identity crisis' - i find it interesting...
I personally take no offense to being called English, or Northern English nor did any of the 'Scousers' in my sample.

I think Liverpool and Manchester do have a lot in common in regards to their history. They were both basically the 2 richest cities after London during 'the Empire' and after WW2 they turned into shit tips especially around the 80s when the industry was shut down. Now they have made great efforts in regeneration.

Liverpool and Manchester have nothing in common? They economically fed eachother for fuck sake. Even Portsmouth and Southampton are in the same boat Southampton (and Liverpool for that matter) provided trade routes to defend, and Portsmouth defended them.
Up north, Manchester provided the goods, and Liverpool traded them. Manchester needed Liverpool to trade, Liverpool needed Manchester to provide the stock.

Alright, I was wrong on that one lads.

I chose that specific topic because i was researching my heritage. I am from Liverpool, I am mixed race, and i was researching contemporary and historic communities in the city and the overall social-identity of the city (it interests me, nothing really pathetic about that). I assure you i do not have an identity crisis.
The majority of the people in my study highlighted a 'scouse' identity over an 'english' identity, but still they felt British (worth a mention, the people in the study highlighted a greater connection to the Irish identity rather than English). You may find it pathetic that 'scouse' people have this 'identity crisis' - i find it interesting...
I personally take no offense to being called English, or Northern English nor did any of the 'Scousers' in my sample.

No. I don't think Scouse people have an identity crisis, I think some muppets on the internet do. I think most Scousers don't give a fuck and if you ask them a question in a certain way I'm sure you could get your answer you were fishing for. As you could anywhere with a discernible accent. Go talk to someone like Willy Russell about how northern he feels.

Anyway how is researching your heritage not an identity crisis? I mean get over it. There's shit to be done NOW. There are real problems you could have researched.

As I've said Liverpool is not like Manchester or Birmingham for more reasons than Irish heritage. Manchester and Birmingham are industiral powerhouses, or certainly used to be, the nature of work and the whole dynamic of the city is totally different. Surely it stands to reason that cities based around industry and production are going to be very different to cities based on export/import and commerce? Obviously things chance, most of these cities ain industries have long since died.

But since Glasgow was an industrial powerhouse as well, and certainly seems has more of that character about it than that of a port, though admittedly with especially grand architecture, that makes your earlier comparison look a bit odd.

Glasgow is also a port, it's industry came later really. Liverpool also has had a relationship with industry, certainly if you go across to Birkenhead. The relationships are not mutually exclusive, but I'd think of Glasgow and Liverpool as major trading ports first and foremost.

I think of them as quite similar, both massively important at various stages, declined and started to regenerate but still have awful problems with poverty. Rough in parts but with stunning architecture in abundance.

The Glasgow we see today has been largely shaped by its massive engineering and textiles industries. You don't get the same port atmosphere as in Liverpool; the big river/estuary, the docks and warehouses. There's none of that in Glasgow (well, a few warehouses maybe, but not the same kind). As far as I can gather Port Glasgow was the main early trade hub. The shipping facilities that were later developed in Glasgow largely seemed to be railheads exporting goods made in Glasgow and its immediate hinterland.

Hopefully that description of Glasgow's atmosphere or what it is not did not sound derogatory, not intended and the place has left me with very fond impressions of its people, architecture etc when visiting. Not just the city centre beauties but some of the surviving industrial buildings, the tenements, the Subway the big roads, the tower blocks, but that's just what interests me.

Glad to see you're reverting to obnoxious little troll mode regarding Leeds, I was worried that someone had replaced you. Leeds was very important in the development of the woollen cloth trade, engineering (especially early railway engineering), mass-market tailoring, tanning etc but let's perpetuate the nonsense instead hey? No doubt these truths will be met with a shrill, pathetic rant about how I am proof that Leeds is evil incarnate but never mind. Just dig out your pills and have a lie down.

What on earth is that last paragraph about? Paranoia is spreading in Leeds.

The fundamental glue of Liverpool's identity is a shared sense of victimhood.

The fundamental glue of Liverpool's identity is a shared sense of victimhood.

I thought that was the whole of the north?

I thought that was the whole of the north?North = class envy, inferiority complex. Liverpool = victimhood, sentimentalism, collective grief, paranoia.

Ahh so you agree with the likes of toadboy that Liverpool is apart from the North? You'll have kids on your back.

What's your favourite major city(core) in the north btw the Langur? If you really had to choose.

I'm guessing Leeds, seen as you seem to despise Manchester and Liverpool....maybe Newcastle?

I like Liverpool and Newcastle the most. The only one I despise is Manchester.

North = class envy, inferiority complex. Liverpool = victimhood, sentimentalism, collective grief, paranoia.

Coming from a Londoner, well, thats Gary Glitter calling you a pervert.

As far as I can gather Port Glasgow was the main early trade hub. The shipping facilities that were later developed in Glasgow largely seemed to be railheads exporting goods made in Glasgow and its immediate hinterland.

This is correct. Glasgow was already an established city by the end of the Medieval era, however it didn't become an important port until after Union. It prospered from the Tobacco Trade with the Colonies because it was cheaper and faster to get there than to London or Liverpool. The River Clyde however was too shallow to allow large ships upriver to the city, so the city merchants purchased a dock in Newark and renamed it Port Glasgow. Eventually the river was deepened, but by that time trading had suffered due to American Independence, and Industry had taken precedence.

And no it wasn't derogatory at all:)

Coming from a Londoner, well, thats Gary Glitter calling you a pervert.Since when has London been hooked on grief?

London is the capital of griefmongous blubfests. It happens all the time. One can forgive the thousands leaving flowers, crying and holding silences over the 7/7 victims for example as one can understand not dissimilar scenes associated with Hillsborough, the one single occasion anything like that has ever been associated with Liverpool. And that's over two decades ago.

The London grief-mongers though, just what is it with them? Hordes of them marching, greeting and whimpering at the drop of a hat time and time again, several times a year most years as a "response" to anything from the death of murderous gangsters to that of a girl from Eastenders' brother and Jade fucking Goody.

T.P O'connor.

Surely that rather shows how Liverpool was in the early 20th century? Back then it would have been teeming with Irish migrants recently arrived from the homeland. Nowadays most people with Irish background will be 2nd,3rd,4th (and greater) generation, and largely subsumed into the English population, as they are in the rest of the country.

Liverpool = victimhood, sentimentalism, collective grief, paranoia.

You will enjoy this article no doubt.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/jun/26/bulger.comment

You will enjoy this article no doubt.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/jun/26/bulger.comment



Liverpool is only different when they want to slag it off.

Liverpool does not have a sense of victimhood. No one my generation goes on about Hillsborough or Thatcher or whatever else. We are too busy getting an education and working ... yes working!

London > New York > Paris :cheers:

Surely that rather shows how Liverpool was in the early 20th century? Back then it would have been teeming with Irish migrants recently arrived from the homeland. Nowadays most people with Irish background will be 2nd,3rd,4th (and greater) generation, and largely subsumed into the English population, as they are in the rest of the country.

I'd argue that the English were subsumed in to the Liverpool population.

Since when has London been hooked on grief?

Pffffffff, Goodbye England's Rose.

Pffffffff, Goodbye England's Rose.

In fairness that was class grief? Middle England...home county?

Was scary to behold...the start of the Age of Vacuumisnm...total celeb obsession?

Will you lot leave Liverpool alone for christ sake, anybody would think its the last place on earth people would visit which is far from the actual truth, which people from Brum would defo know about after being brushed with the same tag for years and years.

Why dont people pick on other cities not mentioned very much on city talk like Newcastle, Sheffield and Bristol, all of which have less of a influence in this country than Liverpool. Liverpool has done some good stuff recently and it really gets on my t-ts when somebody post something in a newspaper from 2001 (ie jamie bulger)

Scouse, not English.

Newcastle is small and boring. The only good thing about it is the geordies :)

Just look at Gary Neville and Noel Gallagher, it's programmed into mancunians to slag off Liverpool.

Ever heard a scouser do the same? NEIN!

Just look at Gary Neville and Noel Gallagher, it's programmed into mancunians to slag off Liverpool.

Ever heard a scouser do the same? NEIN!

After 8 years on SSC, I 'know' I can give you a definitive answer to your question.

After 8 years on SSC, I 'know' I can give you a definitive answer to your question.

What celebrity scousers slag manchester off? Can't think of any.

Add Tony Wilson to that list?

I stand by that comment, Manchester and Liverpool have nothing in common, which is shown by the hatred that's shown by manchester celebrities towards Liverpool.

Just look at Gary Neville and Noel Gallagher, it's programmed into mancunians to slag off Liverpool.

Ever heard a scouser do the same? NEIN!


Never heard Noel Gallagher slag Liverpool off, I seem to recall him saying his dad actually worked in Liverpool and he loved scousers.

Gary Neville, on the other hand.... well, the less said about that slack jawed imbecile the better.

According to my local councillor 10% of his wards population changes each YEAR.

It's a rich area where we get loads of people moving into the area for work etc.

Culturally I am guessing we're a good mix of the different parts of the UK and europe down my street given there are people from all over.

So yes, maybe where I live in Manc is very much Mingerland or whatever you want to call it.

But, when Liverpool develops and economy, develops as a place where outsiders can get a job and settle the same will happen there to.

It's just Liverpool is so far behind the rest of the country globalisation has not quite arrived yet.

According to my local councillor 10% of his wards population changes each YEAR.

It's a rich area where we get loads of people moving into the area for work etc.

Culturally I am guessing we're a good mix of the different parts of the UK and europe down my street given there are people from all over.

So yes, maybe where I live in Manc is very much Mingerland or whatever you want to call it.

But, when Liverpool develops and economy, develops as a place where outsiders can get a job and settle the same will happen there to.

It's just Liverpool is so far behind the rest of the country globalisation has not quite arrived yet.


A wannabe manc giving Liverpool shit? Whatever next.

I've family in Manchester, and they're all more Manc than you, from wherever outside of real manchester you are.

Never heard Noel Gallagher slag Liverpool off, I seem to recall him saying his dad actually worked in Liverpool and he loved scousers.

Gary Neville, on the other hand.... well, the less said about that slack jawed imbecile the better.

Oasis had inspiration off the Beatles, and stole off them.

A wannabe manc giving Liverpool shit? Whatever next.

Such a well thought out, well presented repost.

I applaud you.

albion - how is whether I live in Manc relevant to the point I make?

Unable to answer the actual points I make :lol:

Such a well thought out, well presented repost.

I applaud you.

I'm right though, aren't I?

As I said, Liverpool has nothing whatsoever in common with Manchester the people who inhabit?

Lennon compared to Gallagher or Morrissey...fuck off.

As Noel said....Manchester 'your music's shite it keeps me up all night'

albion - how is whether I live in Manc relevant to the point I make?

Unable to answer the actual points I make :lol:

There's fuck all to answer.

I have family in Gorton, and guess what their street hasn't changed one bit. That's real Manchester, not the post, middle-class twats like you.

Christ, you form your views from the words of musicians :lol:

Still don't dispute that once Liverpool develops and economy outsiders may move in and change the culture?

Where you from? Ever actually lived in a working-class place?

Fucking middle-class wankers, fuck off to the south.

There's fuck all to answer.

I have family in Gorton, and guess what their street hasn't changed one bit. That's real Manchester, not the post, middle-class twats like you.

well done. :lol:

Even if I live in Knutsford or where ever, what possible difference does does it make?

You been drinking? :lol:

well done. :lol:

Even if I live in Knutsford or where ever, what possible difference does does it make?

You been drinking? :lol:

If you're as middle-class as you appear to be, then I fucking despise you.

Where you from? Ever actually lived in a working-class place?

Fucking middle-class wankers, fuck off to the south.

That's right.

The scouse attitude.

Middle class, rich people cannot live in northern cities. :lol:

Genius.

Cities must only be inhabited by poor people, just like in Liverpool where no one with any money would chose to live. :lol:

According to my local councillor 10% of his wards population changes each YEAR.

It's a rich area where we get loads of people moving into the area for work etc.

Culturally I am guessing we're a good mix of the different parts of the UK and europe down my street given there are people from all over.

So yes, maybe where I live in Manc is very much Mingerland or whatever you want to call it.

But, when Liverpool develops and economy, develops as a place where outsiders can get a job and settle the same will happen there to.

It's just Liverpool is so far behind the rest of the country globalisation has not quite arrived yet.




I take it you've never been to University?

Add Tony Wilson to that list?

I stand by that comment, Manchester and Liverpool have nothing in common, which is shown by the hatred that's shown by manchester celebrities towards Liverpool.

Jesus. You're such a useless and hateful twat.

If you're as middle-class as you appear to be, then I fucking despise you.

I'm very middle class.

Earn a good wage.

I am a banker :D

I live in Manchester.

I support Utd.

Is there anything else you hate :lol:

That's right.

The scouse attitude.

Middle class, rich people cannot live in northern cities. :lol:

Genius.

Cities must only be inhabited by poor people, just like in Liverpool where no one with any money would chose to live. :lol:

Nothing to do with the scouse attitude matey.

You don't even live in Manchester. I've more in common with someone from Gorton, Hulme, Toxteh, Aston, Bransholme in Hull...these places suffer and get fuck all paid into them, but you sit back and lap up some new office blocks!

People like you will never understand, you think medica city, liverpool one and something shiny is what makes a city. If I had my way, you'd be hanging from the nearest lampost, you don't know what people live like or care...arrogant, tory cunt.

Jesus. You're such a useless and hateful twat.

Fuck off whinging, I'm not even slagging Manchester here.

I'm slagging off wankers like wirlier with their classist view of the world.

Liverpool has nothing in common with manchester, look down on it all you want but I'm glad of it.

arf - you clearly don't have a clue and are one of the most bigottted people on here.

Go back, read my thoughts on vanity rpojects like L1, MediaCity etc and how little good they do for areas.

Still, if you hate me because of my wage, my job or where I live then fair be it.

You clearly have zero idea about what I think.

Your class determines who you are, fact.

Liverpool has nothing in common with Manchester in your mental brain. Get a sense of perspective. Ooo yeh, bet you have it bad at Uni in Britain. Jesus christ.

arf - you clearly don't have a clue and are one of the most bigottted people on here.

Go back, read my thoughts on vanity rpojects like L1, MediaCity etc and how little good they do for areas.

Still, if you hate me because of my wage, my job or where I live then fair be it.

You clearly have zero idea about what I think.

Hanging from the nearest tree you tory scum.

This thread = people living on the internet. I.E. not real life. You're all fucking morons.

I notice no one has agruged against the premise that Liverpool is different as it's such a basket case economically no outsiders ever move ther?

Idiot.

Your class determines who you are, fact.

said the university student in the first world country.

I notice no one has agruged against the premise that Liverpool is different as it's such a basket case economically no outsiders ever move ther?

Liverpool's struggled to get ahead like Manchester or Leeds, yes? Its stopped it's declining population and has the most start ups after Manchester in 2010, will they succeed? We'll have to wait and see.

That was never the question though, my point is that Mancunins in the press have nothing but bile for Liverpool and you're no different(despite not being a manc)....

said the university student in the first world country.

From a council estate in Hull?

You're tory scum mate, fuck off you can't comprehend anything.

Idiot.

you've called me worse :lol:

Still I agree.

Rule 1 - I am ALWAYS wrong (as are you lot)

Shame only I obey rule 2 and know this.

I suspect you all fail 3 as well in not caring.

From a council estate in Hull?

You're tory scum mate, fuck off you can't comprehend anything.

Member of the Wythenshawe Labour party until they withdrewfunding for Metrolink actually, but hey, you don't recognise rich people in cities because you've spent too much time in Liverpool.

Visit Brum (Edgbaston) or Manc (Dids) and enlighten yourself.

I'm very middle class.

Earn a good wage.

I am a banker :D

I live in Manchester.

I support Utd.

Is there anything else you hate :lol:





Have you been to University?

I think this thread proves categorically...the north=Leeds, manchester, sheffield etc

Liverpool is apart, and in the eyes of people like wirlie that's to its disadvantage and it's all about scouse mentality. But to be quite honest I'm grateful to live in a city which hasn't got people with the tory mindset of wirlie, jrb, voldermort in it.

Peace.

Member of the Wythenshawe Labour party until they withdrewfunding for Metrolink actually, but hey, you don't recognise rich people in cities because you've spent too much time in Liverpool.

Visit Brum (Edgbaston) or Manc (Dids) and enlighten yourself.


Yer like Woolton, Aigburth, Mossley Hill and Allerton haven't got fantastic wealth.

You're a bigot who hates Liverpool so much it distorts your perception.

You're a tory, you'll never understand what it's like for people in the poorest areas and the fact you use poverty against people shows how much of an arsehole you are.

As I've said, Liverpool and Manchester have NOTHING in common and your(wannabe macn) attitude proves that.

albion - if Scouseville is different it is not for good reasons but rather a sign of economic problems.

yoshef - of course, my mother was a teacher.

I think this thread proves categorically...the north=Leeds, manchester, sheffield etc

Liverpool is apart, and in the eyes of people like wirlie that's to its disadvantage and it's all about scouse mentality. But to be quite honest I'm grateful to live in a city which hasn't got people with the tory mindset of wirlie, jrb, voldermort in it.

Peace.

Here I am, call me a manc if you want, never have I slagged off Liverpool. And yet you ignore that, and instead you use this other twat slagging off liverpool - who you say isn't actually a manc - as an example of mancs slagging off Liverpool? WAKE UP.

You're living in fantasy-land mate. Liverpool has nothing in common with Manchester? are you mental!? of course they do! Most cities in the UK are pretty much the same. In what way are they not similar. In words, in arbitrary anaologies and personification of shit that happened on a place a long time ago. As if there is a psyche. It's all bollocks mate, and you subscribe to it. You fucking love it. You love hateful generalisations. You love kicking out and having an enemy. Just get over it FFS.

Liverpool has one of the highest rates of graduate retention.

you've called me worse :lol:

Still I agree.

Rule 1 - I am ALWAYS wrong (as are you lot)

Shame only I obey rule 2 and know this.

I suspect you all fail 3 as well in not caring.

you can get fucked. you're baiting him.

you all just worry me.

Liverpool has one of the highest rates of graduate retention.

Excuse me, it's not stuffed full of tory twats like Wirlie it can't retain anything!

Manchester is a wonderful city with a strong socialist and anti-tory heritage but twats like Wirlie are destroying it, with their nefarious mocking of poverty etc.

The North should stand united but with people like Wirlie it's too hard.

Meh, I'm standing up for Liverpool but my real point is more general, the tories will do fuck all for the north and never will.

I was making a point that there is plenty of professionals from around the uk who have stayed in Liverpool after their degree. Therefore, we have a great mix of people in Liverpool.

What celebrity scousers slag manchester off? Can't think of any.

Chuckle slags off City. Can't say I'm bothered. Get over him Albion.

As for that other Liverpool hater? He loves the Beatles. Therefore, he must........

who is Chuckle? ^^

For the working class hero. Here's your sense of perspective - this is what a different city looks like -

http://www.globalenvision.org/files/kibera_farming09.05.08.jpg

Is Liverpool more similar to that place than it is Manchester?

awayo consistently slags off manchester, also the golden vision and liverpolitan but who's counting?

oh alibion that twat.

For the working class hero. Here's your sense of perspective - this is what a different city looks like -

http://www.globalenvision.org/files/kibera_farming09.05.08.jpg

Is Liverpool more similar to that place than it is Manchester?

Wirlie would have you believe yes.

I'm not making any claims about business or economics, I know too little about it to talk. All I'm talking about is this snobbery from one towards another, when from MY experienc, they are quite similar in their amount of poverty and crime.

awayo consistently slags off manchester, also the golden vision and liverpolitan but who's counting?

oh alibion that twat.

Also pathetic, and I consistently pick up people in Liverpool forum for slagging off Manchester.

The fact remains, there is little in common, Gary Neville and co will slag off scouser and hate them and it will be reciprocated.

Sloyne

So who's that. awayo, the golden vision, sloyne, liverpolitan. That's four, does that make you want to leave Liverpool albion? knowing that four cunts live there/are from there?

Like I said, you're inventing things. You're just a fucking idiot and it makes me upset that you're at university.

Sloyne

So who's that. awayo, the golden vision, sloyne, liverpolitan. That's four, does that make you want to leave Liverpool albion? knowing that four cunts live there/are from there?

Like I said, you're inventing things. You're just a fucking idiot and it makes me upset that you're at university.

As an excuse, this form is like the forum I can say shit I like on, nowt serious.

Still, I think all my points have foundation. Gary Neville is surely one of the faces of Manchester now.

The North should stand united but with people like Wirlie it's too hard.
What a hypocrite, one law for you one law for everyone else? Isn't it you that hates anything Leeds? :nuts:

Gary Neville is surely one of the faces of Manchester now.



Gary Neville's face, if anything, is representative of the sort of idiotic football orientated tripe Wirlie can't extract himself from.

As an excuse, this form is like the forum I can say shit I like on, nowt serious.

Still, I think all my points have foundation. Gary Neville is surely one of the faces of Manchester now.

He's from Bury. Who the fuck cares anyway, it's football, that's what happens. local fans slag each other off.

Do you think Liverpool is more similar to Shanghai than it is Manchester?

http://www.cuewb.com/files/images/Shanghai_Nanjing_Road.preview.jpg

bet you do

It's all banter isn' it? For what it's worth I've had a broad grin on my old mug throughout this chinwag.

Off out now on the town of Liverpool, which is supposedly downbeaten and backward according to Wirlie...you should come back some time mate, we'll hit hannahs and medication, a great night guaranteed!

P.S

I have nowt against Leeds, it's a decent city, just I hate Leeds United AFC.

As somebody who lives in between Manchester and Liverpool (sort of...) I really don't find much difference between the two. They both have the same high streets, the same sort of tourist attractions, similar infrastructure, similar nightlife, similar football based cultures, and countless other similar characteristics. The isolation and generalisations that some (mainly Liverpool based) forumers come up with about Liverpool are based on a prominent, but very much dead history. I'm not denying that Liverpool's (or Manc's) past doesn't have any contemporary influence, but it has been over 100 years and 5/6 generations now since the Industrial Revolution ended and the British Empire's collapse. I think that modern Liverpool is shaped far more on the events of recent decades rather than the 19th/early 20th century happenings. And one of the main characteristics of the late 20th century was peoples ability to move around, signaling an age where people and their families no longer remained in the same city. Since Manchester is only 30 miles away from Liverpool, the suggestion that they have nothing or little in common is pure fantasy.

So what it's like, you sit down and your computer reasonable. then you get a bit dramatic, then ludicrous, then out of this world mental, then it's all back to normal. it's still disturbing. I know that at least 20% of the shit you post on here you believe. Wilrilie is the same, he says "well it's just the internet"

it's a mega waste of energy and thought and yes you believe it to a degree.

I have nowt against Leeds, it's a decent city, just I hate Leeds United AFC.

I beg to differ ;)

Nah only joking, fair enough : )

ner, I really don't believe very much of it kids.

Rule No1 - it's all shit

No2 - I know it is.

I know that at least 20% of the shit you post on here you believe.Yeah, wasn't it you who claimed that the foreign city that Manchester most resembled was New York City? I think you wrote to the question; What foreign city most resembles your own? "I would have to say New York".

Just how much of your own posted shit do you believe.:lol:

I do pitty anyone who thinks a free forum like this is meant to be frequented by reasonable, sensible people who honestly belief everything they post on here.

It is the internet, it is an open room where anyone can come in and say what they want, whether they believe it or not.

If you don't like it find some real friends.

In my experience its not the internet itself, but the illusion of anonymity that disinhibits idiots.

Possibly.

But I do find those that you have to pay a subscription to are much better. The members tend to be much more considerate and interesting.

As it is, places like this are simply magnets for funtime.

I think this thread proves categorically...the north=Leeds, manchester, sheffield etc

Liverpool is apart, and in the eyes of people like wirlie that's to its disadvantage and it's all about scouse mentality. But to be quite honest I'm grateful to live in a city which hasn't got people with the tory mindset of wirlie, jrb, voldermort in it.

Peace.

So what's my mindset Mystic Meg? If you know me so well, feel free..........(this should be fun)

who is Chuckle? ^^

Gary and Phil.

http://www.jimius.com/baconbible/Assets/volunteers/cbrothers.jpg

You will enjoy this article no doubt.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/jun/26/bulger.commentExcellent.... :)

The idea that she is a "fighter" who has sacrificed her own peace of mind for a great and noble calling is a classic piece of Scouse self-delusion. Scousers' propensity to linger over every misfortune until another comes to replace it makes them uniquely suited to the demands of the Bulger mourning marathon. While other cities might have faltered and found something else to distract them, Liverpool's talent for nursing resentments ensured that it would feel, eight years on, just as enraged about Bulger's murder as it was the first moment it heard.

Liverpool has one of the highest rates of graduate retention.It's anal retention that matters.

It's anal retention that matters.But only if you're full of shit.

Yeah, wasn't it you who claimed that the foreign city that Manchester most resembled was New York City? I think you wrote to the question; What foreign city most resembles your own? "I would have to say New York".

Just how much of your own posted shit do you believe.:lol:

no, what the fuck are you on about?

So what's my mindset Mystic Meg? If you know me so well, feel free..........(this should be fun)

don't get it.

In my experience its not the internet itself, but the illusion of anonymity that disinhibits idiots.

I don't mind the pure trolls, that can chat shit in here all they for for all i give two shits, what pisses me off is when norms or people who pretend to be norms elsewhere on the forum or who used to be good come on here spout hateful - useless shit then just say "oh it's just the internet!" Well, what the fuck? It's odd. I don't know how they can be happy with it.

no, what the fuck are you on about?

Anyway, yeh, I stand by that if I did say New York looked like Manchester. Pretty sure I said something like "or another NA city if that upsets you too much" - anyway. I'm sure I don't have to tell you how much Hollywood agrees with me. ;)

P.S. It's pretty hilarious how that's the only thing you got on me. I mean, where do I start with you. Your fake mate who went to coronation street ten years after it closed maybe? Bullshit you say? :lol:

Monkey. :wink2: :colgate:

Don’t blame Olympics organisers for Spurs stadium row
21 January 2011 | By Paul Finch

When Arup Associates and its leading architect, James Burland, designed the Commonwealth Games stadium for Manchester in 2002, they set a precedent which, sadly, has yet to be repeated

They produced an athletics stadium that would convert successfully into a football venue, in this case to be occupied by Manchester City.

Not only was the initial design superb, but so was the conversion, which took two years to implement and remains a first-class facility today, suitable for the newly successful international brand that City has become.

Why, then, has the media been full of stories about the potential demolition by Tottenham Hotspur of our magnificent Olympic Stadium in Stratford, designed by Rod Sheard and Paul Westbury of Populous and Buro Happold respectively? Why haven’t we learned from Manchester?
Before answering that question, it is necessary to think about what happened when the Football Association commissioned the reconstruction of Wembley Stadium by a team that included Foster & Partners and HOK Sport (later to become Populous after a management buyout). Ken Bates, then owner of Chelsea, represented the FA, which prompted Foster to wear a blue tie when he went to client meetings. The practice’s design came to CABE for a review in our early days.

We admired the stadium, had some reservations about the ancillary facilities, but gave broad support to the proposal.

That design was Manchester in reverse, in that a facility designed for football could convert, if necessary, to an athletics stadium. The key elements any conversion had to take into account were the provision of track – achieved through removal of several tiers of seating – and the installation of a warm-up track immediately adjacent to the stadium.

The project became the subject of a political attack by then sports minister Kate Hoey and her boss at the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, Chris Smith. Their locus was the fact that public money had gone into the project from the National Lottery for the complicated site purchase.

The vendors managed to retain ransom strips on three sides of the stadium, and the fourth was a road. “How to get screwed in one easy lesson”, as our chairman, Sir Stuart Lipton, murmured when we reviewed the plans.

The criticisms were rubbish. The stadium won permission, was completed at vast cost, and could still convert for athletics if necessary, although it would involve closure for six months.

Legacy issues

When it comes to Stratford and its post-games future, there is only one fact that needs to be remembered, which seems to be beyond some of our heroic sports correspondents.

The fact is that, in order to win the Olympic bid, London had to promise the International Olympic Committee that, in legacy, the Stratford stadium would become the home for British athletics.

Clearly athletics is not a mass spectator sport in the UK, and hasn’t been since it moved from the White City Stadium. That is why Sheard and Westbury designed a stadium that would disassemble easily, reducing from 70,000 seats to about 20,000.

There is no getting away from the fact that they did not produce a perfect conversion plan for a football club – with seats immediately next to the pitch – because at the time it wasn’t on the cards.

The obvious potential candidate, West Ham, had no more money at the time than it appeared to have today to spend on a magnificent new stadium.

It appears that Daniel Levy, the Spurs chairman, is more than willing to move the club and do the necessary conversion with his architect, KSS, which has produced humdrum designs for the rebuilding of the club’s home at White Hart Lane.

Cynics say Mr Levy has used the Stratford proposal as a way to get a planning permission free of much planning gain burden.

Time will tell. In the meantime, we will no doubt have to listen to more agonising about design failures from the newspaper back pages. On this occasion, however, they shouldn’t shoot the architects, or indeed Lord Coe.

We did what we had to do to win a bid that will reap massive dividends for east London.(at least there is one saving grace from this whole fiasco and wasted tax payers money)

Paul Finch is programme director of the World Architecture Festival, chairman of the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment and a former deputy editor of Estates Times

don't get it.

Nothing is so good it lasts eternally
Perfect situations must go wrong
But this has never yet prevented me
Wanting far too much for far too long.
Looking back I could have played it differently
Won a few more moments who can tell
But it took time to understand the man
Now at least I know I know him well

He thinks.

Was an s club man meself.

Was an s club man meself.

PM.

Gary and Phil.


:lol:

I was making a point that there is plenty of professionals from around the uk who have stayed in Liverpool after their degree. Therefore, we have a great mix of people in Liverpool.

You can say that about all the major northern cities. Leeds, for example, is full of people from all over.

I'd be interested in seeing any stats you have on grad retention though, it's always been a rather patchy and hard to quantify area, meaning city marketing agencies can pretty much claim what they like.

I have nowt against Leeds, it's a decent city, just I hate Leeds United AFC.

Good to hear. I love Leeds itself and love living here, but am no fan of the club. Palace all the way!

Was an s club man meself.

Hannah and Rachel.... :)

Oasis had inspiration off the Beatles, and stole off them.

Plagiarised, not stolen. Big difference.

Noel even admits plagiarising from all kinds of music.

BTW You do know that the Beatles had inspiration from others, don't you?

Lennon compared to Gallagher or Morrissey...fuck off.

Morrissey rules. :banana:

You do know that the Beatles had inspiration from others, don't you?BTW, you are aware that the plagiarizing of some ones work is totally different to receiving "inspiration" from some ones work?

Plagiarised, not stolen. Big difference.

Noel even admits plagiarising from all kinds of music.

BTW You do know that the Beatles had inspiration from others, don't you?

Commonly known fact that The Beatles invented music and broke boundaries with their recording techniques..erm... musically the Stones and Beach Boys pushed boundaries.

Still good band if a little full of themselves. Peace, love, vegetarians, mystic eastern gurus.

Prefer the drugs, drink and mayhem of the others

Inspiration or plagiarizing:

"Twist and Shout" is a song written by Phil Medley and Bert Berns. It was originally titled "Shake It Up, Baby" and recorded by the Top Notes and then covered by The Isley Brothers. It was covered by The Beatles with John Lennon on the lead vocals and originally released on their first album Please Please Me.

;)

Gary Neville, on the other hand.... well, the less said about that slack jawed imbecile the better.

It's just football with Neville though.

Steven Gerrard wrote in his book he wanted Manchester United 'to die'.

:lol:

Hannah and Rachel.... :)

Hannah is sexy, but I don't find Rachel that attractive :dunno:

she looks like a gazelle or something. pretty horsey.

BTW, you are aware that the plagiarizing of some ones work is totally different to receiving "inspiration" from some ones work?

Yep! That's why I wrote 'inspiration' and not 'plagiarised'.

Yep! That's why I wrote 'inspiration' and not 'plagiarised'.

You'll be added to his list of strange recollections.

One of which is a reference to my stating `Atlanta being a back-water' which he has taken to posting every other day, when I was comparing Atlanta to New York, London, Sydney and other world cities.

Perhaps we should atribute this weird editing and quoting to his `plagiarising' & `inspiration' comments?

Still it amuses me that he carries on posting.

You'll be added to his list of strange recollections.

One of which is a reference to my stating `Atlanta being a back-water' which he has taken to posting every other day, when I was comparing Atlanta to New York, London, Sydney and other world cities.

Perhaps we should atribute this weird editing and quoting to his `plagiarising' & `inspiration' comments?

Still it amuses me that he carries on posting.

He gives good North American's a bad name.

One of which is a reference to my stating `Atlanta being a back-water', when I was comparing Atlanta to New York, London, Sydney and other world cities.If Atlanta, GA, USA, the largest city in the South East US, a nation that is still the worlds biggest economy and the worlds only super-power, is what you describe as a "backwater" how on earth do you conclude that Sydney, a city in a nation that is a true "backwater", is equal to London or New York? :ohno:He gives good North American's a bad name.And you, and your civic compatriots are, predictably, true to form.:lol:

And you, and your civic compatriots are, predictably, true to form.:lol:

At least I haven't sold my heritage down the river. :)

Steven Gerrard wrote in his book he wanted Manchester United 'to die'.

Did the Glaziers read it?

Did the Glaziers read it?

:lol:

Commonly known fact that The Beatles invented music and broke boundaries with their recording techniques..erm... musically the Stones and Beach Boys pushed boundaries.

Still good band if a little full of themselves. Peace, love, vegetarians, mystic eastern gurus.

Prefer the drugs, drink and mayhem of the others

The Beatles had that too, Lennon and co were smoking weed, dropping acid and high on amphetamine before any of the stones.

Morrissey rules. :banana:

The Smiths are class, but Morrissey seems like a bit of an arse.

Did the Glaziers read it?


:lol:

Why?

Did someone put the windows through?

May have been funnier with the Glazers.

Whatever, the ginger pubed Man United ransackers.

Careful, you'll upset Fly.

He loves the blood suckers.

Whatever, the ginger pubed Man United ransackers.

:lol: Ahhhhhh, you're a funny guy toadfish.

Careful, you'll upset Fly.

He loves the blood suckers.

Oi!

You can say that about all the major northern cities. Leeds, for example, is full of people from all over.

I'd be interested in seeing any stats you have on grad retention though, it's always been a rather patchy and hard to quantify area, meaning city marketing agencies can pretty much claim what they like.

I know but Wirlie was making out that the only people living in Liverpool are scousers and still making out our population is declining. Neither are true.

Tomo - medium to long term the population is declining, but that was not the point.

The point was that if an area is attracting people from all over the UK, Europe, World into the city, just like in other cities in the country, then those new comers will massively affect the culture of the city.

If there really is a Liverpool culture that is different to the rest of the UK in the way that some on here are claiming, that is only due to the fact that more people move around in the rest of the country, diluting the local cultures and creating a soup of UK, European and world cultures in each of these cities, but not in Liverpool, according to some on here.

Why?

Did someone put the windows through?

May have been funnier with the Glazers.

Oh come on wirlie!

I noticed the spelling mistake and decided to ignore it 'cos the gist of toadboy's comment was amusing.

US, a nation that is still the worlds biggest economy
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

CHINA. 'Nuff said.

Come on; the USA is falling nowadays. It's had its' day. It's had its' chufties. It's time to sit down now.

I actually did go out with albion in Liverpool last night, yeh yeh took some pictures too -


http://www.scifi-artpage.com/blue%20planet%20at%20night%20with%20pearl%20of%20the%20ocean%20city.jpg

http://www.scifi-artpage.com/karlac.jpg

that's snowdon in the background

http://www.scifi-artpage.com/beyond%20emagination.jpg

diluting the local cultures and creating a soup of UK, European and world cultures in each of these cities, but not in Liverpool, according to some on here.

Inbreds? ;)

I wasn't sure where those ships were going,

Wirlie?

I wasn't sure where those ships were going?

Liverpool's regular trading partners... New York, Rotterdam, Mumbai, Melbourne, and Bajor. But most definitely not Manchester!

Yes well I thought that it was something to do with Wirlie's mass evacuation theory but I guess they are evacuating to those places you mentioned because the inhabitants feel more at home there.

Judge Judy might suggest there's a geographical connection amongst today's plaintiffs.










:)

problem with what?

insanity?

problem with what?

insanity?


I don't know, but "it" seems to be particularly offensive to one part of the world in particular!

I don't really know, I mean I pick up on bullshit where-ever it may be (fly, wirlie, albion, eutex).

I don't really know, I mean I pick up on bullshit where-ever it may be (fly, wirlie, albion, eutex).

Ooh get you, find me a quote of mine that is not true.
Draw a subset with EuroSloyne.

Notice the gap?

Liverpool is a fine town, but the girls from there sound a bit funny :)

^^look a bit funny too....:)

Sure you've not been tossing off over Pete Burns by mistake? :?

^^look a bit funny too....:)


^^
Shut it gobshite

Got a soft spot for Pete, I see.. :lol:

Got a soft spot for Pete, I see.. :lol:

I wasn't referring to you, i was actually referring to soul, you must of posted it just before i refreshed the page :lol:

Fair enough. Thought your reply was a bit on the harsh side! :lol:

Pleanty of figures for every city on..

http://www.centreforcities.org/assets/files/10-01-15%20Cities%20Outlook%202010.pdf

http://www.centreforcities.org/outlook09.html

I think some of these figures speak for themselves

Manchester must be feeling pretty smug right now.

Oh wait I meant Leeds.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/5824/emplymentrates.png
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3447/fastestgrowingcities.png
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1662/44696850.png
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/4847/largecityearning.png
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/5412/tablen.png

Birkenhead's population is around 80,000, its certainly not a city itself. Why do they bother producing tables and stats if they can't keep the entities they're measuring consistent?

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3447/fastestgrowingcities.png

Good stats for Leeds, I'm sure someday soon someone might actually give a fuck about it.

oops double post!

Portsmouth has done consistantly well in those figures.

2.9 million population of Leeds
2.6 million population of Manchester

enough said?

2.9 million population of Leeds
2.6 million population of Manchester

enough said?

Hence 'MAA'

Multi
Statuary
Agreements

SO Leeds city region and Greater Manchester.

And what difference does that make?

oh, and it's Multi Area Agreement.

and the Leeds one has not got statutory powers but the Manchester one does, from 1st April.

Still in your world Leeds is up there in the scheme of things isn't it 10123 :lol:

Facts speak for themselves, Leeds is ahead of Manchester on nearly every level.

Really.

What, like the type of major infrastructure you get in major cities.

Go on then, remind me of all this major infrastructure Leeds is ahead of Manchester with.

10123, post me the details of the Leeds conference centres, the areas, the music venues, the sporting venues, the mass transit systems, the motorway network, the interenational connections from the airport, the national media output.....

in fact, remind me again, does Leeds have any major infrastructure that is not present, in greater quantities, in Manchester?

No, thought not.

think for a minute why people liek living in a big city, it is the easy access to lots of other things.

now, to me, Manchester has lots more of lots of different things than Leeds.

Sure, you can use dubious 'statistics' to prove that Leeds is larger than Manchester, but at the end of the day, whether you look at infrastructure, retail, transport or just about ANYTHING you will find more, much more of it in Manchester than Leeds. As such, the big city effect that many look for is MUCH more previlent in Manchester than Leeds.

end.off.

Wirlie are you actually crying? Your posts seemed to be trailing off into complete hysteria.

Incredibly amusing though, keep it up.

I think they should re-name Manchester to make it sound less depressing.

10123, post me the details of the Leeds conference centres, the areas, the music venues, the sporting venues, the mass transit systems, the motorway network, the interenational connections from the airport, the national media output.....

in fact, remind me again, does Leeds have any major infrastructure that is not present, in greater quantities, in Manchester?

No, thought not.

You're only putting yourself in shit wirlie, Leeds yet having much poorer infrastructure than Manchester is still leagues ahead in every term, what do you think would happen if goverment funding was pushed towards Leeds helping it build infrastucture? i think you know what the effects would be, it would without any doubts push immense future investing in Leeds, mighty Manchester would be put in the shade without goverment funding.

Manc is no more and no less deppressing than other northern English.

Maybe Barcelchester.

You're only putting yourself in shit wirlie, Leeds yet having much poorer infrastructure than Manchester is still leagues ahead in every term, what do you think would happen if goverment funding was pushed towards Leeds helping it build infrastucture? i think you know what the effects would be, it would without any doubts push immense future investing in Leeds, mighty Manchester would be put in the shade without goverment funding.

More money is spent in Leeds and West Yorks than GM but hey, ignore reality and only take note of the SSC weirdos.

Anyway, either way you look at it the reason we want to live in cities is the access to large amounts of infrastructure etc.

More money is spent in Leeds and West Yorks than GM but hey, ignore reality and only take note of the SSC weirdos.

Anyway, either way you look at it the reason we want to live in cities is the access to large amounts of infrastructure etc.

And where does it say this?

ONS web site, regional GVA.

10123 - you forgot to post the infrastructure that Leeds has that we want in Manc.

Also, you forget the vast sums that are spent in WY on things like the rural rail grant etc.

Will be much higher than the money the DfT has invested in GM in the last 20 years.

Really.

What, like the type of major infrastructure you get in major cities.

Go on then, remind me of all this major infrastructure Leeds is ahead of Manchester with.

Whaaaa? When did I say Leeds had better infrastructure than Manchester, where does those facts allude to such things?

Everyone knows Leeds lack of infrastructure is holding it back, compared to say Manchester, if Leeds had the appropriate infrastructure it would be ahead. And the fact that Leeds is ahead on many things speaks volumes.

The Lord Mayor of the city of London recently visited Leeds

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/yorkshire/45929-city-london-lord-mayor-hails-leeds-entrepreneurial-spirit/

Alderman Michael Bear, who is responsible for international promotion of the UK’s financial and professional services sector

“You are without doubt a major financial centre, probably the second largest in the UK. The strength in depth of the industry is apparent and working extremely well,” he said.

“You have unique advantages here, not only with the quality of your businesses but the quality and expertise of your lawyers, which is on a par with London,” he said.

The Lord Mayor picked out transport as an area that required further investment to keep the city region competitive for inward investment.

“Your airport probably isn’t big enough to support an important financial centre,” he said.

“Infrastructure pays for itself in this country. We have managed in the South East to get major upgrades to transport. Without that the competitive advantage of the square mile would deteriorate. You have the same issue with infrastructure here. You have to look at ways of bringing infrastructure changes forward.”

10123 - so why do you want to live in a big city?

What is it about city living that appeals?

I'd suggest that whatever it is, be it retail, entertainment, access to things, Leeds has none of it compared to Manchester.

Do you know why?

Because Leeds is only about a third the size of Manchester.

Only in your head tory boy.

Leeds is probably half as big as Manchester.

Third / half...

all same ball park when it's so subjective.

Much better road access to the city centre from the south, the opposite side of the pennines (both direct motorways), and even the north is pretty good with the ELLR taking you to the M1 within 2/3 miles. A pity we can't claim more but it's always fun to point this out!

I've already answered this question from you before, is your memory failing you?

Still.

Keep up the belligerence.

Repetition.

Replies to self.

Occasional outright bullshit.

Asking this question over and over again.

Plenty of superfluous full stops.

And constant line breaks (ideally for every syllable, but all stops must be pulled out to prevent two lines in a row). Just to enhance the belligerence.

It simply wouldn't be the same weirdo-infested SSC without it old bean!

Christ, if only there was better road access from the south in Manchester.

I'm SO jealous.

Such a great sign of being a major city.

London, Brum, both great road access from the south. Actually, maybe not :lol:.

Liverpool didnt do as bad as I thought it might have done compared to the other core cities. It was only the employment rate and population growth that were dodgy.

On a totally separate note, just wondered what schemes are currently ongoing in the various big cities? Can't be arsed going through all the various threads, so just wondered;
City by city, what (big) schemes are under construction/opening during 2011?
Leeds seems to have rather a lot, given the news you hear in the media regarding the economy. Is Leeds the exception, or are schemes still going ahead nationwide?
For Leeds, big schemes 2011 are:
Northern Ballet Theatre opened 2011 (£12m dance centre in cultural quarter)
Leeds Arena starting construction (13.5k capacity arena)
Trinity Leeds shopping centre under construction (1m sq ft new build/refurb)
Airport terminal redevelopment due to commence construction (to allow 5m pax/yr)

The good thing about those projects, particularly Trinity and the Arena, are that they are catalyst projects that will greatly improve the city and city region as a whole as opposed to the countless residential schemes that were thrown up in the boom years.

Liverpool's got central village underway, which although not adding anything particularly amazing retail wise(so far anyway) will liven up an area of town which has been left a bit stale.

Liverpool Waters is in the pipeline but whether it'll ever get going...who knows

Christ, if only there was better road access from the south in Manchester.

I'm SO jealous.

Such a great sign of being a major city.

London, Brum, both great road access from the south. Actually, maybe not :lol:.

Actually Brum has pretty good access. Free-flowing right from the M1 or the M40 onto the M6, then Aston Expressway.

Unlike Manchester, where you have to leave the motorway miles out, go onto a rural single carriageway, then back onto another motorway, etc.

Various attempts to patch this up have fallen by the wayside and it remains thus.

Most places do not have such convoluted access. From Brum to Sheffield, Nottingham to Liverpool, Newcastle to Glasgow.

I'll bet you're jealous!

Such a sign of being a major city.

Unless you're Manchester.

Or unless being like Manchester is the sole benchmark of being a major city.

I remember you once tried to argue that only small towns have decent roads!

Actually, maybe so :lol:!

Manchester is a bit of a twat when it comes to roads, I hate the m60 with a passion.

Best thing about from here to home is that it's m62 all the way.

Does anyone want to help me draw up a Scouse anniversary calendar?

Manchester is a bit of a twat when it comes to roads, I hate the m60 with a passion.

Best thing about from here to home is that it's m62 all the way.

Liverpool is an absolute nightmare to get to!

On a totally separate note, just wondered what schemes are currently ongoing in the various big cities? Can't be arsed going through all the various threads, so just wondered;
City by city, what (big) schemes are under construction/opening during 2011?
Leeds seems to have rather a lot, given the news you hear in the media regarding the economy. Is Leeds the exception, or are schemes still going ahead nationwide?
For Leeds, big schemes 2011 are:
Northern Ballet Theatre opened 2011 (£12m dance centre in cultural quarter)
Leeds Arena starting construction (13.5k capacity arena)
Trinity Leeds shopping centre under construction (1m sq ft new build/refurb)
Airport terminal redevelopment due to commence construction (to allow 5m pax/yr)

So you wouldn't consider Metrolink expansion (about £2bn) to be a major construction project in 2011?

Or the massive redevelopment of Portsmouth Ferry Port with it's new terminal and cruise facilities? Or the prep work for our new 100m+ student tower?

Oh no, just like other big cities around the europe, London, Paris, Lyon, Milan, Rome, Munich etc, Manchester has traffic congestion, and just like Swindon, Milton Keynes, Reading etc Leeds' roads are free flowing and traffic free :lol:

Excellent example of being a major city that, well thought out. :D

Free flowing roads - the sign of a big city :lol:


Edit -
35,000 (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1163301_rushhour_traffic_falls_as_recession_bites)cars can go into Manchester city centre during the two hour morning rush. So, what is the Leeds figure in two hours? I'm guessing it will be orders of magnitude higher??? Just like Manchester has orders of magnitude more light rail, conference centres, arenas, sporting venues, international airport destinations etc :D

Actually Brum has pretty good access. Free-flowing right from the M1 or the M40 onto the M6, then Aston Expressway.

Unlike Manchester, where you have to leave the motorway miles out, go onto a rural single carriageway, then back onto another motorway, etc.



free flowing :lol: the motorways around birmingham are congested most of the time, it would be wise to avoid unless you really needed to drive into birmingham , thats the reason the toll road was built,

as regards manchester your wrong again:nuts: the m602 spur from the orbital takes you to 1 mile of the city centre then its a dual carriage way

there is also another major dual carriage way that goes almost straight to the city centre which is known as the east lancs road, which directly links liverpool and manc

just look at a map of the road network for the north, there is a lot more major road networks concentrated toward manchester, compared to other smaller northern cities

its so laughable leeds folk view on manchester ,probably....

a disillusional

b inferiority complex

c just taking the piss

It's not just the dellusion that gets me, it's the ability to totally ignore the point of a question.

10123 or MattN - why do YOU think people like to live in large cities? What is it that appeals about living in city A that is twice the size of city B? Tell me, what benefits do you see?

I'm also interesred in this great road access into CENTRAL London. Or doesn't thatv count because it is BIG?

Does anyone want to help me draw up a Scouse anniversary calendar?

Maybe i can help you to get a life

So you wouldn't consider Metrolink expansion (about £2bn) to be a major construction project in 2011?

wondered what schemes are currently ongoing in the various big cities? Can't be arsed going through all the various threads, so just wondered;
City by city, what (big) schemes are under construction/opening during 2011?
Is Leeds the exception, or are schemes still going ahead nationwide?


...

Unlike Manchester, where you have to leave the motorway miles out, go onto a rural single carriageway, then back onto another motorway, etc.



The £300m contract to link the M56 with the M6 has been awarded this week.
The work involves a new motorway and upgrade of the A56 to proper dual carriageway.

:)

Oops.

What a wally!

Going ahead nationwide Leedslad.

Check the crane count threads in each city forum.

More in Manc than anywhere else (other than London) as usual.

On a totally separate note, just wondered what schemes are currently ongoing in the various big cities? Can't be arsed going through all the various threads, so just wondered;
City by city, what (big) schemes are under construction/opening during 2011?
Leeds seems to have rather a lot, given the news you hear in the media regarding the economy. Is Leeds the exception, or are schemes still going ahead nationwide?
For Leeds, big schemes 2011 are:
Northern Ballet Theatre opened 2011 (£12m dance centre in cultural quarter)
Leeds Arena starting construction (13.5k capacity arena)
Trinity Leeds shopping centre under construction (1m sq ft new build/refurb)
Airport terminal redevelopment due to commence construction (to allow 5m pax/yr)

LOL!

What a pathetic list!

We have £300m M56/M6 new motorway announced this week!
£1bn CIS land project, with 72m 300,000sq ft office about to be topped out
£2bn metrolink expansion across the whole of GM under construction, with 1st line to open in 10weeks ish.
£140m Manchester Airport investment announced 5 weeks ago.
ITV new complex at media City announced 8 weeks ago

I could go on, but FFS, that Leeds list is pathetic

Did I mention the £1bn Man city development to come....you are in cloud cuckoo land, a million miles off our investments.

Liverpool waters
Brum new 200m tower

Check the crane count threads in each city forum.


Was hoping for summary - hard for me to tell what are major projects, what are still due to commence construction but aren't yet on site etc

Wasn't trying to brag! Just I'm suprised anything is going ahead at all, given the media hype about the economy. Just asking what else is going on!...

Wasn't trying to brag! Just I'm suprised anything is going ahead at all, given the media hype about the economy. Just asking what else is going on!...

Apologies.

Jumped the gun there.

Very WAR ish for a Sunday morn.

May you and your family pass in peace.

Aircity was £280m I thought???

Take a look at the scale of Metrolink, if this was London and entire documentary series would be commissioned>

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae259/Nymanic/Metrolink%20-%20December%202009%20onwards/IMG_0317.jpg

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae259/Nymanic/Metrolink%20-%20December%202009%20onwards/IMG_0320.jpg

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae259/Nymanic/Metrolink%20-%20December%202009%20onwards/IMG_0333.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=866944&page=322

Leedslad - these VANITY projects are not representative of the real economy though.

They're massively overinflated in importance on this forum but mean bugger all in terms of what's going on with the local economies.

for an indication as to how local economies are going, look at the number of empty units in business parks and retail areas. Look at increasing / decreasing congestion on local roads, look at the amount of office space being let across the whole region and not just in the expensive central regions.

Vanity projects that won't provide a return for the developer for another 30years isn't really telling you much about the local economy today.

On a totally separate note, just wondered what schemes are currently ongoing in the various big cities? Can't be arsed going through all the various threads, so just wondered;
City by city, what (big) schemes are under construction/opening during 2011?
Leeds seems to have rather a lot, given the news you hear in the media regarding the economy. Is Leeds the exception, or are schemes still going ahead nationwide?
For Leeds, big schemes 2011 are:
Northern Ballet Theatre opened 2011 (£12m dance centre in cultural quarter)
Leeds Arena starting construction (13.5k capacity arena)
Trinity Leeds shopping centre under construction (1m sq ft new build/refurb)
Airport terminal redevelopment due to commence construction (to allow 5m pax/yr)


A summary of the most interesting projects in Liverpool..

Central Village & Lewis's redevelopment
Mersey Gateway Bridge
The new container terminal in Seaforth
Edge Lane, Hall Lane redevelopment & Edge Lane retail park
Royal Liverpool Hospital, Biocampus
Quite a few city centre University developments currently underway.
Chinatown regeneration - China Square & Scandinavian hotel
Project Jennifer & the HMRI around the city
Kings Dock Exhibition centre
Pall Mall Exchange & 30 Pall Mall
Cruise liner terminal developments
New Brighton redevelopment
All the hotels being built or in the pipeline
Liverpool & Wirral Waters

Buggedboy produced an excellent summary here : - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1283523

Put it this way.

I can get from Manchester Airport to Manchester City Centre in less than 20 minutes. It's a straight route. Airport>M56>Princess Parkway>Manchester City Centre.

As for the M60. It's brilliant. I can travel right round the city. Yes there are problem areas, especially the 2 slips rounds on to the M60, just after Barton Bridge. But an additional lane is going to be added to ease congestion, which would make a huge difference.

Manchester has a very good road network. With the addition of an expanded Metrolink network, park and ride, oyster cards, real time displays, etc, Manchester will have one hell of an intergrated city wide transport network in the future.

10123 - so why do you want to live in a big city?

What is it about city living that appeals?

I'd suggest that whatever it is, be it retail, entertainment, access to things, Leeds has none of it compared to Manchester.

Do you know why?

Because Leeds is only about a third the size of Manchester.

I've never claimed Leeds is better than Manchester, just in certain areas it outperforms.

Oh yeah retail.... Manchester comes out tops on that, yep your arcades are up with the best in the world, the corn exchange in Manchester is the most unique shopping center in the UK..... and with the opening of two D&D restaurants you will come out tops in dining. Did anyone see where they operate, D&D restaurants in London * New York * Copenhagen * Tokyo * Paris but why choose Leeds though for the next two D&D restaurants, I mean they are world class city's, why choose a 'stumpy town on steroids?'

“Leeds is the second most important financial and legal services hub outside London with a catchment to support the aspirational and niche destination which we will deliver.”

Yep that again, I would only presume Manchester has a world class legal sector that would rival anywhere in the UK. Nope!

Although it is Manchester that currently has the highest number of private practice firms after London (according to Law Society statistics), it is Leeds which has the highest number of large corporate firms – ten in all.

http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/features...gal-powerhouse

Anyway I'm going now, I'm going to the shops now to spend more money than you. Why? Because in Leeds you are on average going to be paid more. And don't worry this isn't Manchester I won't be attacked on my travels.

:)

=Leeds Troll;71172257]You're only putting yourself in shit wirlie, Leeds yet having much poorer infrastructure than Manchester is still leagues ahead in every term, what do you think would happen if goverment funding was pushed towards Leeds helping it build infrastucture? i think you know what the effects would be, it would without any doubts push immense future investing in Leeds, mighty Manchester would be put in the shade without goverment funding.

The point being. And this is directed to all those forum members from other cities who 'constantly complain' about Manchester and what it's received investment wise, over the past decade or so.

There's no reason why your city couldn't have gone down a similar route. The difference being, your city leaders didn't have the quality of leadership or vision to make it happen. Your city leaders were years behind our city leaders, when it came to dealing with Governments and private businesses, on a regular basis.

Don't forget. This process came about by chance. The process began with the IRA bomb in 1996. The then Tory Government and Labour City Council had no choice but to work together to rebuild Manchester city centre after the IRA bomb.

That's were this informal Government-Council partnership was formed. Our city leaders spoke to Minsters and Civil Servants on a regular basis. Ties were formed, all be it informal ones. The point being. When our city leaders called, there were always Ministers or civil servants willing to listen. (is the penny dropping yet?) After Labour came to power our city leaders kept on engaging with the new 'Labour' Government'.(which obviously helped our cause) The rest is history.

What were your Council leaders dong at that time and for years after? That's what you should be asking yourselves. Don't blame Manchester for the failings of your city leaders. In fact, it was Manchester that probably inspired your city leaders to rise to the challenge of rebuilding and redeveloping your city centres, etc.

Even when Manchester suffered setbacks, like having funding withdrawn from Metrolink and losing the Super Casino, our leaders still managed to salvaged both projects, which will now be completed with money from the residents of Gtr Manchester and private investment. What happened to similar projects in your city?

There is nothing but praise for Howard Bernstein and Richard Leese from Government and private business. They are both very well thought of and respected. Without doubt they are the best in the business at getting Government, international and private investment. That's not their fault is it.

Even though I've been over this a trillion times before on SSC, I'll do it again.

2002 Commonwealth Games: No other UK city wanted it. FACT! Especially after the fiasco and lasting debt of the Edinburgh Commonwealth Games and Sheffield Student Games. Look at Glasgow. It couldn't wait to bid for the Commonwealth Games. Why? Because it knew the rewards it would get form hosting a well run and successful games. Manchester is the proof.

Metrolink: Funding was withdrawn by Darling and the then 'Labour Government'.(WOW!) The City united as one(leaders, business, media and the citizens) and we got enough of that money back to start the expansion programme. We are now adding additional lines, which will be paid for via local taxes. (WOW!)

The BBC: According to some on here it was a given. Yet they've never produced any evidence to prove it. Anyway, the BBC have moved to Salford and not Manchester.(doh!) In the long run the BBC will benefit and make savings because of this move. One more thing. It cost Peel, a private company, £8-900mill to build Mediacity.

Super Casino. Again, some on here said it was a given. No, it was a fair competition. Manchester beat Blackpool, the favourites, and there was uproar. So much so that the unelected House of Lords voted against the Super Casino plan by two votes. (with less than half of the Lords bothering to attend the debate or vote) Democracy. My arse!

(then the rejoicing began on SSC. I don't have to name the 'usual suspects', but we had a laughing Smilie overload that day, and over the following days)

What did Manchester city council do then? It began talking and engaging with Government Ministers and Civil Servants once again. Just like it always has done. The proposal was salvaged to an extent, and would have been taken further in another guise. Then something 'massive' happened. Manchester City FC were bought be ADUG, from Abu Dhabi. They(private Business) have formed a partnership with MCC and NEM.(WOW!) All bets are now off. Super Casino. You're having a laugh. This new proposal will blow that out of the water.

There are other topics I could go into. City Region, the 10 councils of Gtr Manchester working with each other(where else does that happen?), the City council/s buying into stalled projects, etc, etc.

As you can see, there is a pattern forming here. Not of a city that is given everything, but of a city the works with Government and private business to achieve things. It is a can do and will do city. A city that doesn't take no for an answer. If you have a problem with that, TUFF!

PS. If you want anymore proof, keep an eye out on MIPIM in March. :cheers:

10123 - the total retail offering available to someone in Manchester (don't go forgetting the TC) is miles larger than that in Leeds.

There are some areas such as finance where Leeds gets close to Manchester (but only when you include Pudsey in the Leeds figures but ignore Salford Quays in the Manchester figures, but hey, in the real world...) but over all Manchester offers a LOT more to the population than Leeds does.

In fact, check out the ONS GVA figures for each locations 'Financial and Business services' sector. I'm sure you'll find that Manchester is again, orders of magnitutde larger than Leeds, but hey, you continue to use incredibly rigged figures to try to prove a lie.

Next thing you'll be claiming is that because Reading has a larger IT sector than Leeds or Manchester that Reading is comparable :lol:

10123 - the total retail offering available to someone in Manchester (don't go forgetting the TC) is miles larger than that in Leeds.

There are some areas such as finance where Leeds gets close to Manchester (but only when you include Pudsey in the Leeds figures but ignore Salford Quays in the Manchester figures, but hey, in the real world...) but over all Manchester offers a LOT more to the population than Leeds does.

In fact, check out the ONS GVA figures for each locations 'Financial and Business services' sector. I'm sure you'll find that Manchester is again, orders of magnitutde larger than Leeds, but hey, you continue to use incredibly rigged figures to try to prove a lie.

Next thing you'll be claiming is that because Reading has a larger IT sector than Leeds or Manchester that Reading is comparable :lol:

Pudsey has large corporate firms? :nuts:

Prepare yourself 118-118. :cry: If I'm to believe what I've been told. I have no reason not to. The crown(?) maybe slipping.

Does anyone want to help me draw up a Scouse anniversary calendar?Here's five to get us started:

- Jamie Bulger: 21st January (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-160490/Liverpool-marks-Bulger-anniversary.html)
- Hillsborough: 15th April (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article6096858.ece)
- Heysel: 29th May (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/heysel-tragedy/2010/05/22/liverpool-marks-25th-anniversary-of-the-heysel-tragedy-100252-26497299/)
- Ken Bigley: 7th October (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2009/10/07/family-of-liverpool-hostage-ken-bigley-murdered-in-iraq-mark-fifth-anniversary-since-his-death-92534-24870417/)
- John Lennon: 6th December (http://www.bootletimes.co.uk/news/bootle-news/2010/12/09/liverpool-marks-30th-anniversary-of-john-lennon-s-death-100252-27794274/)

These grieving events are hugely important in the Scouse calendar. It's where Scousers demonstrate and reaffirm their Scouseness. This calendar will be useful to both Scouse insiders and for outsiders hoping to enter the Scouse family. Yes it is possible for outsiders to join. The Scouse are not inbreds. Indeed the Scouse are the most diverse group of white Britons that haven't moved anywhere for more than 100 years in the whole country! Anyone can become Scouse by adopting the rituals and attitudes of Scousehood. Sharing her grief at these memorials is the perfect place to begin. Liverpool has a tragic history and many tragedies to commemorate. Let's remember and build Scousehood together. You'll never walk alone....

pudsey has no large corporate firms?! what you on? :lol:

Prepare yourself 118-118. :cry: If I'm to believe what I've been told. I have no reason no to. The crown(?) maybe slipping.

It's long awaited and will happen no doubt.

The fact that it has yet to happen is a little worrying for Manchester, I mean.... you have the airport the infrastructure, the arenas, conference center, yet Leeds is the legal powerhouse.

The article I posted earlier said if Leeds wants to excel further in Financial services it needs a better airport, which it does.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/yorkshire/45929-city-london-lord-mayor-hails-leeds-entrepreneurial-spirit/

Considering Manchester has tried to rival Leeds in the legal profession for 20 years, it is laughable it isn't ahead

MANCHESTER FIRMS ARE THRIVING TO THE POINT WHERE THEY ARE RIVALLING LEEDS AND LONDON COUNTERPARTS FOR WORK

And this is an article from 1998 http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/northern-exposure-country-wide-tour-continues-with-a-look-a-region-dominated-manchester-liverpo

Ta Langur, I wasn't aware of 3 of them dates.

Here's five to get us started:

- Jamie Bulger: 21st January (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-160490/Liverpool-marks-Bulger-anniversary.html)
- Hillsborough: 15th April (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article6096858.ece)
- Heysel: 29th May (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/heysel-tragedy/2010/05/22/liverpool-marks-25th-anniversary-of-the-heysel-tragedy-100252-26497299/)
- Ken Bigley: 7th October (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2009/10/07/family-of-liverpool-hostage-ken-bigley-murdered-in-iraq-mark-fifth-anniversary-since-his-death-92534-24870417/)
- John Lennon: 6th December (http://www.bootletimes.co.uk/news/bootle-news/2010/12/09/liverpool-marks-30th-anniversary-of-john-lennon-s-death-100252-27794274/)



London Marks 20 Anniversary of King's Cross Fire (http://www.life.com/image/77970454)

London Marks 5th Anniversary of 7/7 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1292758/July-7th-London-marks-fifth-anniversary-7-7-suicide-bombings.html)


Prayers and awards mark Damilola Taylor's anniversary (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11854111)

London Marks Stephen Lawrence Anniversary (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article3799275.ece)

Marchioness disaster families mark 20th anniversary memorial service and laying of wreaths pay tribute to those who died in River Thames collision (http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/article.aspx/1362088)

What's it this week and would you like a hanky?

This is coming up again soon:

The funeral of reality TV star Jade Goody has taken place, with thousands of people watching the service on a giant screen outside (!) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7982970.stm) :lol:

An inhabitant of the most whinging, blub-crazy city in the UK attacking any other place on this issue is truly embarrassing. Arf.

@Toadboy
Maybe you're an amateur and not a professional Scouse? Which two did do observe?

@Awayo
You changed the headlines to pretend that those memorials were London themed. They were not. Face it, no other city grieves like Liverpool. No other city uses collective grieving to build identity. There is only one self-pity city.... ;)

Here's grief-crazed Londoners out in their thousands because, I kid you not, the brother of one of the actors who plays a minor part in Eastenders has died.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/07/02/article-1030259-01CFF93600000578-397_468x286.jpg

Maybe you're an amateur and not a professional Scouse? Which two did do observe?

Defo an amateur, I still live here. Professional Scouse live in the south east, wind the locals up and have different Liverpool FC attire for every day of the week.

The 2 which I recognise.

Here's grief-crazed Londoners out in their thousands because, I kid you not, the brother of one of the actors who plays a minor part in Eastenders has died.But this has nothing to do with London. There's no "London" dimension to this memorial. The only place that has city-wide and city-specific memorials to its sons and daughters is.... Liverpool. :)

Must have missed them then. The only event marked at all is Hillsborough and in the context of remembered those fans who died no matter where they were from, as they were from many places. Even locally, the disaster, terrible that it was, means more to LFC fans and the minority of the total population that follows football than the rest of the city.

Funnily enough however, the day after 7/7 everyone where I then worked outside London were marched outside into the carpark to hold a minute's silence, not something that happened in my school on the outskirts of Liverpool when Hillsborough happened. And that's the only bad event that's ever generated any significant community involvement in Liverpool, when people acted similarly to how the London population reacted to 7/7 - gathering together at the locations where the atrocity occurred, laying flowers and wreaths, crying.

Although the trigger to get Londoners wailing and blubbing in huge numbers does seem to be rather sensitive, unlike in Liverpool. 7/7 one may understand, but Jade Goody! Get a grip...

I think people from London are unfamiliar with the concept of caring about people other then yourself, it baffles them.

I really don't see how people mourning for people either blown apart by a bomb or crushed to death at a football game reflects particuarly badly on them, but then again I am a sensitive lad.

I think people from London are unfamiliar with the concept of caring about people other then yourself, it baffles them.

I really don't see how people mourning for people either blown apart by a bomb or crushed to death at a football game reflects particuarly badly on them, but then again I am a sensitive lad.They like whinging and mass demonstrations of bogus grief however. Jade Goody, Diana Spencer, the murderer Reggie Kray, etc.

You're general point is of course correct. In reality the reaction to 7/7 in London was exactly how one would expect it be and how it would be in Leicester or Liverpool to something similar. The difference is however how the London media reports events happening in London.

There does appear to be a particular propensity for large-scale public demonstrations of grief in London nowadays, more so than anywhere in the country. In a general spirit of hypocrisy and accusing others of what it true of oneself, this may explain the media's motivation in trying to pin such behaviour in Liverpool, where such behaviour is largely absent. But you'd really have to ask them.

Also Heysel is remebered by Everton fans, Liverpool FC fans don't really mention it...for some reason.

The point being. And this is directed to all those forum members from other cities who 'constantly complain' about Manchester and what it's received investment wise, over the past decade or so.

There's no reason why your city couldn't have gone down a similar route. The difference being, your city leaders didn't have the quality of leadership or vision to make it happen. Your city leaders were years behind our city leaders, when it came to dealing with Governments and private businesses, on a regular basis.

Don't forget. This process came about by chance. The process began with the IRA bomb in 1996. The then Tory Government and Labour City Council had no choice but to work together to rebuild Manchester city centre after the IRA bomb.

That's were this informal Government-Council partnership was formed. Our city leaders spoke to Minsters and Civil Servants on a regular basis. Ties were formed, all be it informal ones. The point being. When our city leaders called, there were always Ministers or civil servants willing to listen. (is the penny dropping yet?) After Labour came to power our city leaders kept on engaging with the new 'Labour' Government'.(which obviously helped our cause) The rest is history.

What were your Council leaders dong at that time and for years after? That's what you should be asking yourselves. Don't blame Manchester for the failings of your city leaders. In fact, it was Manchester that probably inspired your city leaders to rise to the challenge of rebuilding and redeveloping your city centres, etc.

Even when Manchester suffered setbacks, like having funding withdrawn from Metrolink and losing the Super Casino, our leaders still managed to salvaged both projects, which will now be completed with money from the residents of Gtr Manchester and private investment. What happened to similar projects in your city?

There is nothing but praise for Howard Bernstein and Richard Leese from Government and private business. They are both very well thought of and respected. Without doubt they are the best in the business at getting Government, international and private investment. That's not their fault is it.

Even though I've been over this a trillion times before on SSC, I'll do it again.

2002 Commonwealth Games: No other UK city wanted it. FACT! Especially after the fiasco and lasting debt of the Edinburgh Commonwealth Games and Sheffield Student Games. Look at Glasgow. It couldn't wait to bid for the Commonwealth Games. Why? Because it knew the rewards it would get form hosting a well run and successful games. Manchester is the proof.

Metrolink: Funding was withdrawn by Darling and the then 'Labour Government'.(WOW!) The City united as one(leaders, business, media and the citizens) and we got enough of that money back to start the expansion programme. We are now adding additional lines, which will be paid for via local taxes. (WOW!)

The BBC: According to some on here it was a given. Yet they've never produced any evidence to prove it. Anyway, the BBC have moved to Salford and not Manchester.(doh!) In the long run the BBC will benefit and make savings because of this move. One more thing. It cost Peel, a private company, £8-900mill to build Mediacity.

Super Casino. Again, some on here said it was a given. No, it was a fair competition. Manchester beat Blackpool, the favourites, and there was uproar. So much so that the unelected House of Lords voted against the Super Casino plan by two votes. (with less than half of the Lords bothering to attend the debate or vote) Democracy. My arse!

(then the rejoicing began on SSC. I don't have to name the 'usual suspects', but we had a laughing Smilie overload that day, and over the following days)

What did Manchester city council do then? It began talking and engaging with Government Ministers and Civil Servants once again. Just like it always has done. The proposal was salvaged to an extent, and would have been taken further in another guise. Then something 'massive' happened. Manchester City FC were bought be ADUG, from Abu Dhabi. They(private Business) have formed a partnership with MCC and NEM.(WOW!) All bets are now off. Super Casino. You're having a laugh. This new proposal will blow that out of the water.

There are other topics I could go into. City Region, the 10 councils of Gtr Manchester working with each other(where else does that happen?), the City council/s buying into stalled projects, etc, etc.

As you can see, there is a pattern forming here. Not of a city that is given everything, but of a city the works with Government and private business to achieve things. It is a can do and will do city. A city that doesn't take no for an answer. If you have a problem with that, TUFF!

PS. If you want anymore proof, keep an eye out on MIPIM in March. :cheers:

eye watering stuff.....:lol::lol::lol:

Pudsey has large corporate firms? :nuts:

Yes, a huge HBOS staff (about 1,000 from memoy) that you are counting in your figures.

Also Heysel is remebered by Everton fans, Liverpool FC fans don't really mention it...for some reason.

Aye Everton were the true victims of Heysel.

Actually we've done 2 Kop mosaics on the 10th and 20th anniversaries. Plenty of smaller stuff too. We don't hide.

There's nothing wrong with being human, Langur is a shitty little primate though.

It's long awaited and will happen no doubt.

The fact that it has yet to happen is a little worrying for Manchester, I mean.... you have the airport the infrastructure, the arenas, conference center, yet Leeds is the legal powerhouse.

The article I posted earlier said if Leeds wants to excel further in Financial services it needs a better airport, which it does.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/yorkshire/45929-city-london-lord-mayor-hails-leeds-entrepreneurial-spirit/

Considering Manchester has tried to rival Leeds in the legal profession for 20 years, it is laughable it isn't ahead

MANCHESTER FIRMS ARE THRIVING TO THE POINT WHERE THEY ARE RIVALLING LEEDS AND LONDON COUNTERPARTS FOR WORK

And this is an article from 1998 http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/northern-exposure-country-wide-tour-continues-with-a-look-a-region-dominated-manchester-liverpo

As I've told you on numerous occasions, what happens in Leeds doesn't impact on Manchester one bit. Honest. How many times?

Show me one proposal or decision that has happened in Leeds that impacts on Manchester?

On the contrary.

Manchester got the Metrolink money. Leeds lost out. The BBC move North went to Salford and not Leeds. Leeds airport is held back by Manchester airport. National airlines will never relocate to Leeds airport from Manchester airport. If the Northern rail hub happens, it will be in Manchester, and not Leeds. Etc.

Perhaps it's only you that doesn't undertand, but Manchester doesn't need to rival Leeds at anything. If it does have a rival, it is Birmingham. Which is a much bigger and more influencial city than Leeds will ever be. Especially with the arrival of HSR first.

Sorry to burst you imaginary bubble.

PS. The news will be a shattering blow for you. Also. (law) come back to me when Leeds finally gets one of these.

http://www.cabe.org.uk/files/imagecache/csLarge/case-studies/node/add/casestudy/Manchester_Civil_Justice_Centre_22.jpg

Manchester is about to get a newly built Civil Justice Centre consisting of 47 courts of which it will be justly proud.

Did Leeds get it's centre in the end? (read the PDF) http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/publications-and-reports/reports/general/justice-outside-london/index/birmingham-manchester-leeds.htm

Just to remind the Leeds lot that believe without question the Leeds marketing departments figures and bull shit about second financial centre or whatever they are coming out with at the moment.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_economy/GVA_NUTS3.xls

Tab NUT3 - 12

Cell S298 - Leeds GVA - "Business services and finance" - £7,554,000,000 (including Pudsey with the large HBOS staff)

Cell S131 - South Greater Manc (Manc on it's own not available - should tell you something) - "Business services and finance" - £12,412,000,000 (including the likes of Salford Quays that marketing Leeds ignore).

So, maybe 10123 or whoever can explain the massive discrepency?

One more thing 118 118.

When was the last time Leeds created any real meaningful employment? Show me the figures and proposal/s that created it. Apart from London, Leeds has taken the brunt of the job cuts in the financial sector. Your a one horses economy/city. Over reliant on the financial sector, and always at the mercery of a downturn. Which happened. You're about to lose......(fill in as appropriate) as well.

They like whinging and mass demonstrations of bogus grief however. Jade Goody, Diana Spencer, the murderer Reggie Kray, etc.

You're general point is of course correct. In reality the reaction to 7/7 in London was exactly how one would expect it be and how it would be in Leicester or Liverpool to something similar. The difference is however how the London media reports events happening in London.

There does appear to be a particular propensity for large-scale public demonstrations of grief in London nowadays, more so than anywhere in the country. In a general spirit of hypocrisy and accusing others of what it true of oneself, this may explain the media's motivation in trying to pin such behaviour in Liverpool, where such behaviour is largely absent. But you'd really have to ask them.Diana was grieved by the whole nation. Jade Goody was grieved by the kind of people who read tabloids and Hello magazine. 7/7 is thought of as an attack on Britain and is commemorated nationally. The only one you have a case for is Reggie Kray, who is commemorated by old school Cockneys. Cockneys form a tiny and beleagureed minority in the East End of London. Many of them have migrated to Essex. Cockneys indeed have a mentality comparable to the Scouse in their mawkishness. However they're a small minority. No other part of the metropolis commemorated the Krays.

And there's no media manipulation whatsoever. Liverpool organises collective grieving events at the city level. No other city acts like this.

Arf. Not even good trolling.

So it's not actually Londoners who are holding the grief-fests that are staged with increasing frequency while none occurs in Liverpool. But that London is some kind of grief-Mecca when whinging blubbers from everywhere gather. London, the Grief Capital - come here to blub!

10123.

How many jobs, directly or indirectly, will a city wide Metrolink system create?
How many jobs has Mediacity created? How many more jobs will phase two of the proposal create?
How many jobs have been, and will be created by Manchester's Knowledge capital and enviromental programmes?
What about Manchester's booming leisure industry, carried along by the biggest(cough!) and richest football clubs in the world. You haven't got a clue what's planned at Sports City in East Manchester.
The city council along with various financial institutions are about to unveil a host of projects, that 'are financed', and will create thousands of jobs in the city centre and around Manchester Airport.

I know, Leeds has a shrinking financial sector.

jrb - I think you missed the £280m 'Aircity' that the airport is building to deal with the huge increase in freight that is coming through the airport.

As we all know, freight creates loads of local jobs from logistics to warehousing to all sorts of jobs that simply get ignored on these pages yet are a vital part of the wealth of the south Manchester crescent.

jrb - I think you missed the £280m 'Aircity' that the airport is building to deal with the huge increase in freight that is coming through the airport.

As we all know, freight creates loads of local jobs from logistics to warehousing to all sorts of jobs that simply get ignored on these pages yet are a vital part of the wealth of the south Manchester crescent.

Touched on it. As Wirlie states. Financing has been secured. And it's all City Region led.(the 10 councils of Gtr Manchester)

Examples.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Visualisierung_web.JPG

Düsseldorf Airport City

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/LSZH_UniqueAirportCity_001.png/800px-LSZH_UniqueAirportCity_001.png

Zurich Airport City

Oh, and if all of the London grief-fests, which happen again and again and again while none occur in Liverpool are all national happenings that it implies that the whole of the country has a mawkish culture of grieving, London included. Liverpool however which doesn't really go in for this sort of thing, might be an exception if anything. Hillsborough aside no similar events have ever occurred.

Mingland, country of mawkish moaners with his grief-Mecca capital, London.

Arf. Not even good trolling.

So it's not actually Londoners who are holding the grief-fests that are staged with increasing frequency while none occurs in Liverpool. But that London is some kind of grief-Mecca when whinging blubbers from everywhere gather. London, the Grief Capital - come here to blub!"None ocurs in Liverpool"? Who are you kidding. Click the links in my calendar. All are reports of Liverpool-specific mourne-fests that took place in the last 18 months.

- Jamie Bulger: 21st January (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-160490/Liverpool-marks-Bulger-anniversary.html)
- Hillsborough: 15th April (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article6096858.ece)
- Heysel: 29th May (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/heysel-tragedy/2010/05/22/liverpool-marks-25th-anniversary-of-the-heysel-tragedy-100252-26497299/)
- Ken Bigley: 7th October (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2009/10/07/family-of-liverpool-hostage-ken-bigley-murdered-in-iraq-mark-fifth-anniversary-since-his-death-92534-24870417/)
- John Lennon: 6th December (http://www.bootletimes.co.uk/news/bootle-news/2010/12/09/liverpool-marks-30th-anniversary-of-john-lennon-s-death-100252-27794274/)

Doesn't New York hold yearly vigils for John Lennon?

In Langur's pathetic viewpoint whenever a handful of people ever turn up to remember a world famous rock star and it happens to occur in Liverpool it uniquely Liverpool event organised on a city basis, despite it happening simultaneously elsewhere.

When Londoners gather in their thousands in London to mourn the deaths of Londoners who have died in London it's either "national" or with the filthy class-hatred of the scummiest sort of lower-middle class bigot, only "cockneys" to blame.

Either way, the idiocy of an inhabitant of the place where grief events happen more so than anywhere in the country combined attacking anywhere for mawkish grieving, let alone Liverpool, is obvious.

Just ram home the point 10123.

Click at your peril. http://s853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/tram%20tests/?action=view&current=MVI_0736.mp4

One more thing 118 118.

When was the last time Leeds created any real meaningful employment? Show me the figures and proposal/s that created it. Apart from London, Leeds has taken the brunt of the job cuts in the financial sector. Your a one horses economy/city. Over reliant on the financial sector, and always at the mercery of a downturn. Which happened. You're about to lose......(fill in as appropriate) as well.

Funny that with all your knocking of Leeds against Manchester, and that Leeds never creates real meaningful employment, that next year when Trinity Leeds shopping centre is opened, Leeds will OVERTAKE Manchester as the 4th largest shopping destination in the UK, and thats without Eastgate Quarters being built which is due to commence construction in the next 2 years.

Woo, next thing you'll be telling us is that you have not included the Trafford Centre in those comparisons won't you?

You'll be claiming that living in Leeds gives more of a retail offering than if you live in Manchester :lol:

Anyhow, come back when Leeds city centre HAS over taken Manchester.

At the moment it's behind, it MAY over take Manchester city centre, but then again it probably won't as you ignore all that is going on in Manchester at the moment (co-op plans will include significan retail that no doubt you are not considering).

Funny that with all your knocking of Leeds against Manchester, and that Leeds never creates real meaningful employment, that next year when Trinity Leeds shopping centre is opened, Leeds will OVERTAKE Manchester as the 4th largest shopping destination in the UK, and thats without Eastgate Quarters being built which is due to commence construction in the next 2 years.

No, I'm not knocking Leeds. I replying to 10123.

Anyway. Another possible lasting legacy of the London Olympiss take. It seems those in power and in charge couldn't give a fook. What a surprise.

http://www.leytonorient.com/page/NewsDetail/0,,10439~2273878,00.html

and thats without Eastgate Quarters being built which is due to commence construction in the next 2 years.

Eastgate quarters Starts early 2012 with an opening date of early 2015.

Also, with regards retail, even without huge development as Metrolink expands more and more people will have much easier access to Manchester city centre, with that improved access we'll see higher spend in the city centre.

Ignore your vanity projects like Trinity, they tell you bugger all about what the overall situation is like in an area.