http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/30/thatcher-government-liverpool-riots-1981

Thatcher government toyed with evacuating Liverpool after 1981 riots
National Archives files reveal ministerial warning to PM not to spend money on deprived city, saying decline was largely self-inflicted

Yup.

Hilarious on every level.

Either you are scouse and are appalled, confirmed in your isolation or

you just laugh at what is plain to see.

Have fun with this one guys

It WAS the 16th century.

And I agree with Kids here, I don't understand why the Liverpool and Manchester forumers feel the need to compete. The two cities grew together and off eachother. Manchester made the goods for Liverpool to sell, Liverpool provided the market for Manchester to sell to.

That's right, it's a national economy.

Liverpool was the merchant city, the port that bought and sold globally, traded raw materials and finished products for the vast hinterland of Lancashire, Staffordshire, Cumbria, Yorkshire, North Wales and more. The great industrial towns and cities that became powerhouses to their locality like Halifax, Leeds, Manchester, Rochdale, Stoke, Birmingham could also now trade with the world.

It's what's needed again, we need to produce, we need to trade, we need output from manufacturing to be aligned with buyers across the planet via exchanges, brokerages and markets.

State management of the UK economy turned Great Britain from a powerhouse in to a back water.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/30/thatcher-government-liverpool-riots-1981



Yup.

Hilarious on every level.

Either you are scouse and are appalled, confirmed in your isolation or

you just laugh at what is plain to see.

Have fun with this one guys

Another nail in the coffin of the Thatcher myth. The day she dies can't come soon enough so more truths will be out and we can put her aside.

That's right, it's a national economy.

Liverpool was the merchant city, the port that bought and sold globally, traded raw materials and finished products for the vast hinterland of Lancashire, Staffordshire, Cumbria, Yorkshire, North Wales and more. The great industrial towns and cities that became powerhouses to their locality like Halifax, Leeds, Manchester, Rochdale, Stoke, Birmingham could also now trade with the world.

It's what's needed again, we need to produce, we need to trade, we need output from manufacturing to be aligned with buyers across the planet via exchanges, brokerages and markets.

State management of the UK economy turned Great Britain from a powerhouse in to a back water.

Was it not the case that by the 70's and 80's the UK was becoming incredibly inefficient and because of too little help from the government under Thatcher we had far too little investment in our industries, as happened in countries like Germany, which meant that they could no longer compete on quality or cost?

I'd argue that those countries that are doing well now, Germany, Japan, China etc have all had much more state 'interference' / 'help' than we ever had.

Also, the decline of Liverpool, along with Manchester, Halifax etc etc was to do with the local economies not moving on with the times.

Whilst in Germany, in the towns and cities across the country, they have always invested in new machinary, skilled workforces etc.

In England, we waited whilst the world moved on, as ships started to move to Rotterdam for obvious geographical reasons nothing was replacing that lost industry in Liverpool. As other countries were able to produce the cheap products coming out of factories in Manchester, Oldham, Rochdale, Halifax etc more cheaply and to a higher standard, nothing was done to invest in moving those areas forward such that they could deliver the high end, top quality products that countries like Germany were producing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/30/thatcher-government-liverpool-riots-1981



Yup.

Hilarious on every level.

Either you are scouse and are appalled, confirmed in your isolation or

you just laugh at what is plain to see.

Have fun with this one guys



Everyone in Liverpool has known about being left in the shit and about the managed decline policy for years. Hardly a revelation here.

Everyone in Liverpool has known about being left in the shit and about the managed decline policy for years. Hardly a revelation here.

Yet LNG Cats will show central Government and the EU have poured more money into Merseyside than any other UK region over the last 30 years.

Structurally something is/was wrong...Derek Hatton and the striking attack dogs should be more your enemy than Thatcher or her policies.

Yet LNG Cats will show central Government and the EU have poured more money into Merseyside than any other UK region over the last 30 years.

Structurally something is/was wrong...Derek Hatton and the striking attack dogs should be more your enemy than Thatcher or her policies.



Yes, I'm sure he can, he was showing how Roy Hodgson was as good a manager as Kenny Dalglish the other day.

I've given myself a Christmas present and stuck the obsessed sad f*cker on Ignore.

I suggest others do the same, he can go the same way as Sloyne.

Ignore is for tarts and losers.

Yes, I'm sure he can, he was showing how Roy Hodgson was as good a manager as Kenny Dalglish the other day.

He got to a European Final as a manager and Kenny hasn't?

Not sure what else there would be?

Andy Carroll is funny though. The best transfer ever.

He got to a European Final as a manager and Kenny hasn't?

Not sure what else there would be?

Andy Carroll is funny though. The best transfer ever.


Well if you ignore the glaringly obvious and focus on something meaningless, you can believe what you want I guess, just the same as you can believe money has been "poured" into Merseyside.

Well if you ignore the glaringly obvious and focus on something meaningless, you can believe what you want I guess, just the same as you can believe money has been "poured" into Merseyside.

Public money compared with GM, yes.
Private money massively no.

But, since 2000 I would say Private money has appeared and the `vanity' projects are working, Liverpool One is bringing people back and there is a positive attitude in the City.

The Yosser Hughes years are an horrific memory?

Liverpool didn't expand until then but Manchester was growing in population even during the 1605 plague. It really was quite a bustling/important town in Lancashire, being the centre of its textile industry, local trade in the hundred and having an important collegiate church. More like a Preston or something.You're getting close; During that time period, mid sixteenth early seventeenth century, Manchester was a village/town of quite some local significance and growing into, what would become, a wealthy city of national importance. That legacy we can still see today.

Also at this time Liverpool was a fishing hamlet/village, a sometimes port of insignificant trade with Ireland and an embarkation point for intermittent royal attacks on Ireland but of almost no significance and, due to it's offer, fish, was almost static in growth. It was about this time that due to the tricky approaches, through shifting sand bars, to Chester, shipowners discovered the protected tidal pool at Liverpool. It wasn't long before salt exports from Winsford was switched to Liverpool. It was then, and only then, that Liverpool started to build it's self into a town then a wealthy city of global importance. That legacy we can still see today.

Manchester's importance was national, Liverpool's importance was global.

You're getting close; During that time period, mid sixteenth early seventeenth century, Manchester was a village/town of quite some local significance and growing into, what would become, a wealthy city of national importance. That legacy we can still see today.

Also at this time Liverpool was a fishing hamlet/village, a sometimes port of insignificant trade with Ireland and an embarkation point for intermittent royal attacks on Ireland but of almost no significance and, due to it's offer, fish, was almost static in growth. It was about this time that due to the tricky approaches, through shifting sand bars, to Chester, shipowners discovered the protected tidal pool at Liverpool. It wasn't long before salt exports from Winsford was switched to Liverpool. It was then, and only then, that Liverpool started to build it's self into a town then a wealthy city of global importance. That legacy we can still see today.

Yes thanks for repeating what me and Yoshef have just been explaining.

Manchester's importance was national, Liverpool's importance was global.

Wow, you've changed you're tune from "Manchester only traded with its neighbours" only on the previous page. I'll not try and convince you Manchester was ever globally important, getting you to admit national importance is remarkable in itself.

P.S. do you want this coin I have? A 1791 Liverpool Half-Penny in terrible condition, £100?

P.S. do you want this coin I have? A 1791 Liverpool Half-Penny in terrible condition, £100?You must think I earned my wealth by buying over market. Like I am oft to repeat; "Karl Pilkington is not a one off". :ohno:

By the way, at the time period we are talking about Lancaster was the county seat and most important town in the county.

PS: ETA at anchorage is about mid afternoon. Next leg will be Juan Fernandez to Fatu Hiva. Likely without me though.:sad2:

By the way, at the time period we are talking about Lancaster was the county seat and most important town in the county.

How so? Traditional centres lost their influence after the reformation when their religious institutions were dissolved. Lancaster was no exception. This was the start of the new - Manchester was larger and had more growth than Lancaster which along with most of the other towns in West Lancashire was in acute decay. William Camden speaking of Lancaster in 1600 said:

"The town at this day is not very well peopled nor much frequented and all the inhabitants therefore are given to husbandry"


In 1544 Henry VIII even passed an act of parliment:

..touchyng the repayring and amendying of certaine decayed houses and tenements... of the townes of Lancastre, Preston, Lyverpole, and Wigan in the county palatine of Lancaster, which now are fallen downe, decayed, and at this tyme remayne unre-edifyed..

Obviously didn't work. Notice how they spelt Lancaster differently when referring to the county and to the town. No idea why.

You must think I earned my wealth by buying over market. Like I am oft to repeat; "Karl Pilkington is not a one off". :ohno:


What I do know is that the history of Liverpool is a sort of economy in itself. Make of that what you will.

Did Leland go to Leyland?

Traditional centres lost their influence after the reformation when their religious institutions were dissolved. Lancaster was no exception.The English protestant reformation occured in the 16th century, the Duchy of Lancaster Palatinate was established in 1351 and lasted into 1873. The Palatinates court system lasted even longer, into the 1970's.

The Assizes you mean? Yes you are right, unsurprisingly a court which was held four times a year did little to reverse the decay of Lancaster following the dissolution of its religious institutions and the end of the Anglo-Scottish Wars in the mid 16th century.

Administration was a modest activity in Britain, since bureaucracies were so small, with what little there was in England and Wales concentrated in London; the county capitals were devoid of much permanent activity, and only came to life on the occasions when courts of assize or quarter-sessions met for a few days in the year; Warwick, Stafford or Lancaster might have been the formal centres of their shires but this factor alone did not make them very big or prosperous.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yF1Q-FQPfVgC&pg=PA331

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/33/99518844_7116231e44.jpg

New York Times - 45 places to go in 2012. Birmingham number 19 for it's amazing restaurants.

http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/travel/45-places-to-go-in-2012.html?pagewanted=2&ref=travel

19. Birmingham, England
Could England’s second city be first in food?

Olive, the BBC’s food magazine, recently startled British gourmands when it declared Birmingham, England’s second largest city, the United Kingdom’s “foodiest town,” ahead of London and Edinburgh. The award came last October, just as Birmingham was hosting an annual festival, the 10-day Birmingham Food Fest, which featured such local talents as Aktar Islam of Lasan Restaurant; up-and-comers like David Colcombe of Opus, Andy Waters of Edmunds Restaurant and Steve Love of Loves Restaurant; and a troika of Michelin-starred chefs: Glynn Purnell of Purnell’s; Andreas Antona, Luke Tipping and Adam Bennett of Simpsons Restaurant; and Richard Turner of Turners of Harborne.

The chefs are building on an already rich dining scene. Birmingham is famous in Britain for its Balti Triangle, an area of town that is home to a beloved Pakistani-Kashmiri curry dish invented here; it is also birthplace to such classically British food items as Typhoo Tea, Bird’s Custard and HP Sauce.

Good news for Brum.

I'm not restaurant connoisseur by any means, a good pub dinner does me.

New York Times - 45 places to go in 2012. Birmingham number 19 for it's amazing restaurants.

http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/travel/45-places-to-go-in-2012.html?pagewanted=2&ref=travel



Nice one Brum.

See, Good places to eat do have an impact on a city, just like good football teams do, LOL

Do good football teams really make massive impact? Liverpool was probably the most successful city in the world at football during the 80s, but its rep was one of deprivation, drugs and poverty.

I know football's changed and it's now 'glamorous' and much more commercial, but I'm not sure how much the team being good does for the city, apart from people hearing the word 'Manchester' more, I suppose it has an effect. Look at Leeds, they're shite and the City's doing fine.

Fantastic well done Birmingham.

I still think Birmingham is the hands down second city, Manchester still has a lot of work on its hands to beat that. I think most would agree we're neck-on-neck though.

Fantastic well done Birmingham.

I still think Birmingham is the hands down second city, Manchester still has a lot of work on its hands to beat that. I think most would agree we're neck-on-neck though.



Glasgow was 13th, well done to Scotlands "Second" City :cheers:

I think most would agree we're neck-on-neck though."Neck'n'neck" in gambling parlance means both horses, dogs, teams etc, are equal. I guess I would be among those who would disagree with your opinion.

"Neck'n'neck" in gambling parlance means both horses, dogs, teams etc, are equal. I guess I would be among those who would disagree with your opinion.

Must you always be such a pedant?

And yes, of course you do, you hate Manchester even though you're like 3000 miles away. That's really normal.

Must you always be such a pedant?

And yes, of course you do, you hate Manchester even though you're like 3000 miles away. That's really normal.

Thought you had Sloyne on ignore?

He really has got the better of you hadn't he?

I'll take the New York Times Top 50 places to visit in the world honour we won.

You can keep the curries.

Well done though, anything that competes with London has to be a plus.

I'll take the New York Times Top 50 places to visit in the world honour we won.

You can keep the curries.



Isn't the list Brummy posted the 2012 version of that?

Isn't the list Brummy posted the 2012 version of that?

The guide has gone down market from last year ;)

Lol at the curries remark Fly! Mcr always droans on about Rusholme's claims to be the curry mile - so what? Brum's culinary heritage isn't just about our Baltis but our plethera of good and excellent world restaurants, our cafes, our many suburban farmers' markets and our food and drink production (Typhoo, Birds, HP, Cadburys). I wouldn't mind having Manchester's Boddingtons in that mix but we used to have our own M&B, Ansells and Davenports!

I take it Mcr was in the 2011 list by the NY Times? Good work!

Lol at the curries remark Fly! Mcr always droans on about Rusholme's claims to be the curry mile - so what? Brum's culinary heritage isn't just about our Baltis but our plethera of good and excellent world restaurants, our cafes, our many suburban farmers' markets and our food and drink production (Typhoo, Birds, HP, Cadburys). I wouldn't mind having Manchester's Boddingtons in that mix but we used to have our own M&B, Ansells and Davenports!

I take it Mcr was in the 2011 list by the NY Times? Good work!

Ahem ... Boddington's Brewery in Manchester closed a few years ago.

Boddingtons is crap beer anyway, why would anyone want that?

The guide has gone down market from last year ;)

:lol: I'll take Glasgow's top ten cities in the World to visit by Lonely Planet accolade over it anyway ;)

Boddingtons was good once actually. Not now of course. It's a brand name for nitrokeg swill brewed in various locations.

Was the company bought out and sold down the canal? ( ho ho ). I remember the old adverts. Was quite surprised when I heard it had closed.

Interbrew bought the company and shifted the brewing down the Cardiff.

Pretty sure Fosters comes from the Scottish and Newcastle brewry in Moss Side.

Indeed it is...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jun/21/fosters-lager-brewed-in-britain

It's always a shame when a long-standing local company shuts down shop. It's tragic to look at the companies that were founded in this country and have been stripped bare after being bought out by foreign companies. Or shipped work overseas. At least the French and Germans have a bit of national pride.

Interbrew bought the company and shifted the brewing down the Cardiff.

Boddingtons lost its independence when it was taken over by Whitbread in about 1989. According to people who's opinion on this I trust the beer quality had already started to deteriorate before that, although it rapidly got worse once it joined the tour of destruction. Of course it got even worse when InBev got their hands on it.

Cask Boddingtons (which is a tiny proportion of total volumes) is still brewed in Manchester, it's contract brewed by Hydes.

It's always a shame when a long-standing local company shuts down shop. It's tragic to look at the companies that were founded in this country and have been stripped bare after being bought out by foreign companies. Or shipped work overseas. At least the French and Germans have a bit of national pride.

Yup.

We need to design (Apple), build (Airbus) or own (Astra Zeneca) in world markets.

Having foreign owners of UK supplying power industries, when that consumes probably the most amount of money off UK tax payers and seeing the profits vanish overseas is not sustainable.

Oh look the country owes £5trillion of which £2.5trillion is systemic.

Christ on a stick.

I like Bodingtons :(

Yup.

We need to design (Apple), build (Airbus) or own (Astra Zeneca) in world markets.

Having foreign owners of UK supplying power industries, when that consumes probably the most amount of money off UK tax payers and seeing the profits vanish overseas is not sustainable.

Oh look the country owes £5trillion of which £2.5trillion is systemic.

Christ on a stick.

Too late, man. Game over :(

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/10892-men-arena-becomes-manchester-arena-for-now.html


Meanwhile, leisure industry publication Pollstar said this week that the Manchester Arena was the second busiest venue in the world in 2011. Pollstar reported over 1.2m ticket sales at the Manchester venue, an increase of 12% on the previous year's figures. This was 500,000 more than the third placed venue.
The top arenas of 2011 by ticket sales were as follows:
The O2 London: 1.9m tickets sold
MEN Arena: 1.2m
Sportpaleis Antwerpen, Belgium: 714,000
Rod Laver Arena, Melbourne, Australia: 706,000
The O2 Dublin: 670,000
Palais Omnisports de Paris-Bercy, Paris, France: 659,000
Staples Center, Los Angeles: 633,000
Madison Square Garden Arena, New York: 616,000
Air Canada Centre, Toronto: 582,000
LG Arena, Birmingham: 561,000

Manchester, world class. Truly world class.

Appreciation please

It's not just Manchester United is it.

We are more than a regional city. We are a defacto sub-capital.

We are a defacto sub-capital.

Because you're a popular place to watch the X-Factor tour and Dancing on Ice? God help the UK in that case!

Because you're a popular place to watch the X-Factor tour and Dancing on Ice? God help the UK in that case!

No Old Trafford is tops
Manchester airport is tops
MEN is tops
Etihad is top ish

Manchester seems to be top of attracting crowds.

That was the point. We are not a regional centre in reality we are a sub-capital.

The GM office market is twice the size of the next two non-London combined.

Because you're a popular place to watch the X-Factor tour and Dancing on Ice? God help the UK in that case!

Oddly, if you happen to pass by the Leeds Arena thread, it seems that a couple of Leeds forumers have deemed having Dancy on Ice and X-Factor appearing in Leeds will make it the most important, biggest, bestest city ever.

Think you need to remind them of their folly.

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/10892-men-arena-becomes-manchester-arena-for-now.html


Manchester, world class. Truly world class.

Appreciation please

It's not just Manchester United is it.

We are more than a regional city. We are a defacto sub-capital.

Fly are you being a complete douche on purpose? :lol:

For a start. LG Arena is a single Arena within many at Birmingham NEC.

The LG Arena is redundant for other major large scale event's such as crufts for weeks of the year.

NIA accommodates these but at a fraction of the size.

Fly are you being a complete douche on purpose? :lol:

For a start. LG Arena is a single Arena within many at Birmingham NEC.

The LG Arena is redundant for other major large scale event's such as crufts for weeks of the year.

NIA accommodates these but at a fraction of the size.

So?

Does the MEN hold the No2 slot in the world? YES
Do Manchester United dominate attendances in the UK and hold a Top 3 slot in Europe, limited only by capacity issues? YES

NEC is great but it not in the top xx in Europe?

Doing my usual rounds on the interweb and came across this just now.

Place North west.

MEN Arena becomes Manchester Arena

13 Jan 2012, 11:21


The owners of the 21,000-capacity entertainment venue have started the re-branding process following the end of the sponsorship agreement with the Manchester Evening News.

The large sign on Trinity Way was removed this week and other signage around the complex, directing drivers and pedestrians, will soon follow.

The agreement with the MEN lasted for 13 years but new owner Development Securities, which acquired the site in a joint venture with Patron Capital in 2010 for £62.2m, believes it can secure a far more lucrative branding deal.

The local newspaper paid a reported £500,000 a year for the naming rights. In contrast, the name of the Scottish Hydro Arena, currently under construction in Glasgow, went for £1.5m a year in a 15-year deal.

DevSec and arena operating company SMG Europe are in talks with potential branding partners but no date has been set for an announcement.

Meanwhile, leisure industry publication Pollstar said this week that the Manchester Arena was the second busiest venue in the world in 2011. Pollstar reported over 1.2m ticket sales at the Manchester venue, an increase of 12% on the previous year's figures. This was 500,000 more than the third placed venue.

The top arenas of 2011 by ticket sales were as follows:

1.The O2 London: 1.9m tickets sold
2.MEN Arena: 1.2m
3.Sportpaleis Antwerpen, Belgium: 714,000
4.Rod Laver Arena, Melbourne, Australia: 706,000
5.The O2 Dublin: 670,000
6.Palais Omnisports de Paris-Bercy, Paris, France: 659,000
7.Staples Center, Los Angeles: 633,000
8.Madison Square Garden Arena, New York: 616,000
9.Air Canada Centre, Toronto: 582,000
10.LG Arena, Birmingham: 561,000

Doing my usual rounds on the interweb and came across this just now.

Place North west.

Do keep up Bond.

THe Brum's are already unable to praise.

Do keep up Bond.

THe Brum's are already unable to praise.

Pussy Galore.

So?

Does the MEN hold the No2 slot in the world? YES
Do Manchester United dominate attendances in the UK and hold a Top 3 slot in Europe, limited only by capacity issues? YES

NEC is great but it not in the top xx in Europe?


NEC is 7th largest exhibition centre in Europe, top in UK and the busiest exhibition centre in Europe.... so yes it is in the top xx in Europe

NEC is 7th largest exhibition centre in Europe, top in UK and the busiest exhibition centre in Europe.... so yes it is in the top xx in Europe

Very impressed.

I always thought the Excel in east London was busier.

Because you're a popular place to watch the X-Factor tour and Dancing on Ice? God help the UK in that case!

What're you all ejaculating over the Leeds arena for then? It'll be all of that stuff and worse on at the Leeds arena.

At least when Manchester builds an arena we end up 2nd in the world. Leeds' won't even pop up on the radar. Nice try.

NEC is 7th largest exhibition centre in Europe, top in UK and the busiest exhibition centre in Europe.... so yes it is in the top xx in Europe

Great! Congrats!

I thank you for praising Manchester for being the 2nd most attended arena in the world.

Surely worthy of praise?

If you cannot praise that, then your posts are worthless?

^^ I agree its great for Manchester that you have the second highest selling single arena, I was just replying to your comment about the NEC not being top xx in europe. Like I'm sure youd post stuff about Manchester also leading in a similar field when something is posted about Birmingham;)

What're you all ejaculating over the Leeds arena for then? It'll be all of that stuff and worse on at the Leeds arena.

At least when Manchester builds an arena we end up 2nd in the world. Leeds' won't even pop up on the radar. Nice try.

Just wait and see. If you look at the number of visitors to Manc Arena from West/North Yorks, then most will use Leeds Arena not Manc from next year. As SMG has already stated in no uncertain words, Leeds not Manc Arena will be their flagship Arena in the UK and Europe when it launches next year.

You are funny.

Looking forward to X-Factor and Disney on Ice, well no,just X-Factor as it's the wrong shape for Disney on Ice :lol:

What effect did Liverpool and the o2 have on the MEN again? Remind me.

Just wait and see. If you look at the number of visitors to Manc Arena from West/North Yorks, then most will use Leeds Arena not Manc from next year. As SMG has already stated in no uncertain words, Leeds not Manc Arena will be their flagship Arena in the UK and Europe when it launches next year.

Yeah they sell 18-20,000 and 12,000 at Leeds.

Can I keep this post...has to be the most hilarious I have ever seen.

Glorious.

What are you smoking?

Sky - serious, tell us how we are going to recognise the Leeds arena as having this huge effect.

Are you seriously predicting it will over take the MEN as the worlds second busiest arena?

Are you seriously thinking that performers will prefer to play to a smaller crowd, taking less money, just because some PR bloke has said the Leeds arena is the fagship :lol:

Very funny. Very very funny.

Edit - did the Leeds council report not estimate about 500k people per year attending 140 events?

Not entirely sure how that means it will be the second busiest arena in the world.

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/10892-men-arena-becomes-manchester-arena-for-now.html



Manchester, world class. Truly world class.

Appreciation please

It's not just Manchester United is it.

We are more than a regional city. We are a defacto sub-capital.


BIRMINGHAM has 2 arenas.
Combine these together and we would be 4/5th in the world :cheers:

Double post

Haha nothing like a bit of gloating from a Mancunian to stir up some bitching on a friday night.

PR bloke........no, it was the European CEO for SMG, Richard Sutherland. He is Manc Arena's CEO and Leeds as well. It can't come from a higher souce than him.

Right, so predict away oh gullible one, get the predictions on here so we can take the piss in a couple of years. :lol:

Of course the CEO of a company would not want to please their new customers with some kind, meaningless words, to make them feel good would he :ohno:

Seems some are so blinkered they are not able to see through to.

So, you saying Leeds will be the 2nd largest arena in the world in 2015?

Just the Leeds council report only claimed top 10 and about 500k a year over 140 events.

Oh Leeds, when will you learn? :lol:

Haha nothing like a bit of gloating from a Mancunian to stir up some bitching on a friday night.

I'm guessing Fly was doing his usual shite about the MEN article about 2nd busiest arena :lol:

He's nothing if not predictable.

Are you seriously thinking that performers will prefer to play to a smaller crowd, taking less money, just because some PR bloke has said the Leeds arena is the fagship :lol:

.


This is what the "PR bloke" said to the press conference at the launch of Leeds Arena!:

From Yorkshire Post:

THE music industry boss who will oversee the running of Leeds's new entertainment arena pledged: "This WILL be a world-class venue."

Multinational company SMG was chosen by the city council as the preferred operator for the 13,500- facility.

SMG already runs more than 200 sport and entertainment venues across the US and Europe – including Manchester's MEN Arena and Newcastle's Metro Radio Arena.

But the firm's European managing director is confident the proposed Leeds development will put the rest of its empire in the shade.


John Sutherland said: "You're going to see an extremely impressive building coming out of the ground.

"This will be SMG's flagship for Europe and our international portfolio – something the city and its people will be very proud of. People on the margins, people living between here and Manchester or Newcastle, for example, will say 'I want to go to Leeds to see my concerts'."[/QUOTE]

What would you expect to say?

I mean really?

Were you expecting the CEO of SMG to say that it will have very limted appeal, most people will still go to the MEN and it will get second rate concert.

Wake up ffs.

You have yet to tell us how we will recognise this success.

Thinhg is, I expect we probably think that long term the new arena in Leeds will be very similar, i.e. a new arena on the circuit along with Sheffield, Newcastle, Liverpool, Nottingham etc.

Getting about 140 events per year and about 400-500k vistors per year.

All just as per the Leeds council report claimed.

You are yet to say how we will see anything different than that. You just keep repeating totally meaningless terms like flagship.

So tell us once and for all. How will we notice this flagship status???

P.S. Isn't it funny how a man spinning the Leeds arena, working for SMG, chose to mention the cities where other SMG arenas exist.

Probably does not even occur to you why he would do that would it?

Added to that, it's also hillarious that until Leeds was getting an arena they did not matter.

It is odd that Leeds people did not go on all the time about how great it was for Sheffield that they have had an infititely better arena than in Leeds for the last 20 odd years. Odd that.

Only now, when Leeds is getting a similar arena to Sheffield in size, suddenly it has become the most important thing ever, espcially now that some guy has a vested interest in bigging up the thing to the locals in Leeds has said he thinks it will be good and a success :lol:

Very very funny and very very predictable.

....

I think Leeds arena will have an effect on Sheffield since they are/will be catering to Yorkshire and Humberside but I cant see it pushing Manchester into 3rd place.

What would you expect to say?

I mean really?

Were you expecting the CEO of SMG to say that it will have very limted appeal, most people will still go to the MEN and it will get second rate concert.

Wake up ffs.

You have yet to tell us how we will recognise this success.

Thinhg is, I expect we probably think that long term the new arena in Leeds will be very similar, i.e. a new arena on the circuit along with Sheffield, Newcastle, Liverpool, Nottingham etc.

Getting about 140 events per year and about 400-500k vistors per year.

All just as per the Leeds council report claimed.

You are yet to say how we will see anything different than that. You just keep repeating totally meaningless terms like flagship.

So tell us once and for all. How will we notice this flagship status???

Ask SMG or John Sutherland, he said it, and you don't get a Euro CEO for an Arena company which is in the spotlight and public realm stating such claims which can't be backed up with facts. Remember as CEO for Manc Arena, that would be a very irresponsible statement to say in front of the media.

Why would it be irresponsible?

It means nothing, nothing at all. Other than to gullilbe people like you.

The sheer fact that you are not able to post what you expect to happen as a result shows how meaningless it all is.

Shall we be anal, and read more into that comment than was meant?

"This will be SMG's flagship for Europe and our international portfolio – something the city and its people will be very proud of. People on the margins, people living between here and Manchester or Newcastle, for example, will say 'I want to go to Leeds to see my concerts'."

So, he expects people between Newcastle and Manchester to want to go to the Leeds arena.

But not people from Manchester and Newcastle.

That being the case, it suggests that there will be no events in Leeds that will be a draw for the people in Manchester to want to go to. After all, he said people between Manchester and Newcastle will want to go to Leeds.

So, for the people of Manchester to want to go to a major concert event then surely he is suggesting that they will not want to go to Leeds (they are not between Leeds and Manchester after all), as such, the only logic is that the major events will remain at the MEN and not go to Leeds.

See what you can do when you take a comment totally out of context?


So come on Sky - what do you understand by the term flagship? To the rest of us it is a totally meaningless term that will have zero effect in the real world.

I think Leeds arena will have an effect on Sheffield since they are/will be catering to Yorkshire and Humberside but I cant see it pushing Manchester into 3rd place.

No, neither can Leeds council. They are predicting about 140 events and about 400-500k visitors a year.

About a third of the visitors to the MEN.

So?

Does the MEN hold the No2 slot in the world? YES
Do Manchester United dominate attendances in the UK and hold a Top 3 slot in Europe, limited only by capacity issues? YES

NEC is great but it not in the top xx in Europe?

The NEC atrracts 2.1 million people a year.

I haven't got comparible figures for the next busiest Exhibition Centre in the UK, which is ExCeL in London .... the only figures they have produced is 5 million visitors since it opened in 2000, which is 12 years ago ... so that's barely an average of 400,000 a year!

That makes Birmingham the premier exhibition venue in the UK, trumping even the 'Capital proper'!!!

Have you figures for GMEX .... or Manchester Central as it is now?

Or we could add all of the NEC Group venue visitor numbers together (NEC, LG Arena, NIA, Symphony Hall) ... and you add figures for MEN, Manchester Central & Bridgewater Hall together .... and see where we are at then :cheers:

Regardless it will cause a decline in attendees at Manchester arena.

Leeds Arena
Leeds

SMG Europe has been selected to operate what will become Britain's most exciting concert venue when it opens in early 2013.

The 13,500 capacity Leeds Arena will be a theatre style venue with all the seats facing the performance area, with great sight-lines and spectators much closer to the stage than other traditional bowl venues. The external design is a stunning honeycomb design of lights that can change colour to reflect the mood of the arena event at that time.

The Arena will allow maximum flexibility of use and will attract national and international scale music concerts and events.

Manchester Arena
Manchester

Located within 60 minutes drive-time of 11.4 million people, Europe's largest indoor concert venue, the Manchester Arena, is situated alongside Manchester's Victoria Station, with direct access to a hub of public and private transport services and adjacent to a 900 capacity multi-storey car park.

The Arena was officially opened on Saturday 15 July 1995 when Torvill & Dean broke the UK box office attendance record for a single ice performance with over 15,000 fans. In its first operational year the venue's target of 130 events, attracting 1 million people was easily exceeded, with over 1.2 million people entertained at 143 events.

The venue's versatility means that it can be transformed from an intimate theatre environment for 3,000 to a state-of-the-art arena capable of accommodating 21,000.

From Madonna to Kings Of Leon, Strictly Come Dancing to World Championship Boxing and Lee Evans to the 9th FINA Short Course World Swimming Championships this multi-purpose entertainment and sports Arena caters for all, with full TV broadcasting and recording facilities.

In 2001, the Manchester Arena was voted International Venue of the Year by the concert industry and was nominated for an unprecedented ten consecutive years. In 2003, 2004 & 2007 the Manchester Arena was also officially recognised as the 'Busiest Indoor Arena Venue In The World' based on ticket sales.

http://www.smg-europe.com/index.php

Regardless it will cause a decline in attendees at Manchester arena.

No it won't. This is amazing.

You Leeds lot are thick. You cannot even read the statement from the CEO properly.

Manchester's arena is no 2 in the world.

"SMG Europe has been selected to operate what will become Britain's most exciting concert venue when it opens in early 2013"

Need we say more!!!!

:banana::banana::banana:

WY has a population of around 2.5M, instead of the whatever percentage that goes to arenas go to Leeds instead it will cause Manchester's number to decrease.

Is it really that hard to understand?

:ohno:

Regardless it will cause a decline in attendees at Manchester arena.

No it won't at all.

Liverpool didn't, Sheffield didn't, and neither will Leeds.

SMG Europe has been selected to operate what will become Britain's most exciting concert venue when it opens in early 2013

Need we say more!!!!

Yes please.

These are all totally meaningless terms that you have taken hook line and sinker as you are so desperate for something to cling onto.

If you had any substance to what you are clinging to you would be able to tell us what these meaningless terms actually will mean to the arean when it opens.

Your inabaility to tell us what this will mean in reality shows just how desperate you are to cling to PR fluff that means absolutely nothing.

Nothing being what you have been able to provide as to what they mean :lol:

Nothing being the difference between this arena and any other similar sized arena. :lol:

It's odd. When Liverpool arena opened the scousers predicted just the same as you guys are.

It will be just as popular as the MEN, no scousers will go to Manchester any more and the number of visitors and events would drop at the MEN. Remind us what happened Loiners :lol:

Then the exact same happened with the o2 - same thing happened again with events and visitors at the MEN - they increased.

So, you seem to be so desperate to cling to something important in your city, I mean even Sheffield has had an arena for 20+ years, has a light rail network.

You are so desperate for the arena to be important you will cling to meaningless phrases and pretend that they mean something, yet are totally unable to explain what they do mean. :lol:

Yes please.

These are all totally meaningless terms that you have taken hook line and sinker as you are so desperate for something to cling onto.

If you had any substance to what you are clinging to you would be able to tell us what these meaningless terms actually will mean to the arean when it opens.

Your inabaility to tell us what this will mean in reality shows just how desperate you are to cling to PR fluff that means absolutely nothing.

Nothing being what you have been able to provide as to what they mean :lol:

Nothing being the difference between this arena and any other similar sized arena. :lol:

You really just don't get it or won't accept it, but these facts about Leeds Arena are coming from the owners of Manc Arena......they are saying Leeds Arena will be their number 1 in Europe, not any PR man, Leeds councillor, or Loiner forumer!!

By the way, the word "flagship" is defined by the English dictionary as "the best or most important product, idea, building, that an organization owns or produces"

But he did not say it would be their number 1 arena in europe did he?

He used a totally meaningless term 'flagship'. You have not read that to mean busiest have you :lol:

Your lack of confidence about makin any prediction about what it actually means speaks volumes about your confidence in the Leeds arena being the busiest in the SMG stable :lol:

Not even you are that gullible are you?

A 13k arena number 1 in Europe? Have a day off.

Good addition for Leeds, as it was a glaring blank spot, but means nothing for anyone outside of it.

lol Manchester trolls are pissed that the owner of there beloved arena is wanting them to go to Leeds and not there own.

http://www.smg-europe.com/index.php

Will they be doing any refurbs to the MEN in the near future .....?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/MEN_Arena,_Manchester.JPG/640px-MEN_Arena,_Manchester.JPG


LG Arena looks more respectable after it's refurb.....

http://www.info4security.com/Pictures/web/i/s/e/ADTlgarena.jpg


... and the expansion and refurb of the NIA later this year will bring it in to the 21st Century.....

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wtMZXc3ajLs/TpYEwAu_k_I/AAAAAAAAHvQ/D4_T6jGj0v8/s1600/NIArefurb11a.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Hlq7uexvdQ8/TpYEv1_kt8I/AAAAAAAAHvI/p3B4pR13c-c/s1600/NIArefurb11b.JPG

The inside gets the odd refurd.

Normally minor things to the bars, improving the boxes, adding 'exec bars'. Nothing major tbh, but I don't think there is any huge requirement to do anything at the moment. It is clearly holding it's own.

Arenas are all the same, horrible places and you're too far away from the band, surrounded by nobheads and sat down. I guess they're good for boring sports and terrible tv shows but I don't get the fuss.

Music experiences are always the best in small, grubby little venues.

"SMG Europe has been selected to operate what will become Britain's most exciting concert venue when it opens in early 2013"

Need we say more!!!!

:banana::banana::banana:

Oh FFS!

Do you think SMG are going to put all their time and effort into an arena that only holds 13,500, compared to an arena that holds 21,000? Leeds arena won't top tickets sales of 750,000, let alone 1,000,000, that the MEN arena does.

Of course SMG are pushing Leeds arena, it's their newest arena. It's also their most modern and technically advanced arena. What else would you expect? Putting those two facts aside, the Leeds arena will never attract the biggest acts like the MEN does. And it will never make as much money for SMG like the MEN arena does.

The new Leeds arena won't impact on the MEN arena either. Certain forum members said the same about the Echo arena. Wrong. So if the Echo arena didn't impact on the MEN Arena, why would the Leeds Arena?

Look. Just enjoy your arena and the acts it will bring to Leeds, instead of trying to compare it to the MEN Arena.

But he did not say it would be their number 1 arena in europe did he?

He used a totally meaningless term 'flagship'. You have not read that to mean busiest have you :lol:

Your lack of confidence about makin any prediction about what it actually means speaks volumes about your confidence in the Leeds arena being the busiest in the SMG stable :lol:

Not even you are that gullible are you?

Flagship means number 1. As for busiest, did I ever say that Leeds Arena would be busier than Manc Arena. But biggest doesn't always mean best!!

Flagship means nothing in reality, does it?

Best is totally subjective, in terms of experience etc but it won't be the busiest and everything else isn't quantifiable.

That guy might think Leeds' arena is the best or will be the best but it's just one opinion, means nothing.

Good post JRB.

Why not celebrate the fact that Leeds is getting this missing infrastructure, something similar sized cities have had for decades.

Why try then try to pretend it is something it is not?

Why are you so totally unable to have a questioning mind when it comes to anything that is said about Leeds in a positive manner?

Flagship means number 1. As for busiest, did I ever say that Leeds Arena would be busier than Manc Arena. But biggest doesn't always mean best!!

Right, so how will this materially affect anything???

I have zero doubt whatsoever that some things in the Leeds arena will be far superior to Manchester, it is nearly 20 years younger.

I don't think anyone has ever disagreed ffs.

So what material difference will Leeds being the 'best' arena make?

At present Nottingham is a more modern, 'better' arena than the MEN - does it make any material difference?

The o2 is far 'better' than the MEN yet has not affected the MEN for visitors.

The Liverpool Echo is better than the MEN, yet has not affected crowds.

In fact. as these better arenas have opened the number of events and visitors to the MEN has continued to increase.

So come on, tell us what difference it will make to me, you or anyone?

Flagship means number 1. As for busiest, did I ever say that Leeds Arena would be busier than Manc Arena. But biggest doesn't always mean best!!

How many times have you heard 'flagship store'? It means jack shit.

What's more importnat to SMG, a flagshp arena, or an arena that makes the most money?

SMG will always push the worlds biggest pop stars and pop groups to the MEN arena as it's their biggest arena in the North of England.

The inside gets the odd refurd.

Normally minor things to the bars, improving the boxes, adding 'exec bars'. Nothing major tbh, but I don't think there is any huge requirement to do anything at the moment. It is clearly holding it's own.

We didn't 'do' arenas very well in the 80's and 90's though. Birmingham's two needed a big sort out, tbh.

How many times have you heard 'flagship store'? It means jack shit.

What's more importnat to SMG, a flagshp arena, or an arena that makes the most money?

SMG will always push the worlds biggest pop stars and pop groups to the MEN arena as it's their biggest arena in the North of England.

Like half the Loiners on here they are blinkered to such an extent that they will never question anything slightly positive about Leeds.

We didn't 'do' arenas very well in the 80's and 90's though. Birmingham's two needed a big sort out, tbh.

The facilities in the MEN are nothing like they were when it was opened.

Things like the Stella club came and went.

The building may look dated but the reality is the facilties have evolved quite well.

Arenas are all the same, horrible places and you're too far away from the band, surrounded by nobheads and sat down. I guess they're good for boring sports and terrible tv shows but I don't get the fuss.

Music experiences are always the best in small, grubby little venues.

The Leeds Arena will have the United Kingdom’s first purpose built "fan-shape" Arena design and will have a contemporary and innovative layout where all seats face the performance area.

Despite the fact that 90-95% of arena shows are now end stage entertainment – such as music, comedy and family shows – most Arenas are designed with sporting events in mind. As a result, at entertainment events nearly all seats are facing a sports pitch and not the stage. This compromises experience for many spectators at most arena events. The Leeds Arena design avoids this problem and will be the "next generation" in arena design.

The fan-shape design will:

■give spectators clear views of centre stage from every single seat.
■ensure that every seat will be the best seat in house.
■see the longest distance from the stage being 68 metres as opposed to 95-110 metres at a standard Arena.
■provide an unrivalled intimacy and experience for visitors at the Leeds Arena as everybody is close to the action
■provide one of the best acoustic experiences of any Arena in the United Kingdom.
Although fan-shaped arenas are named "super-theatres" by experts, the Leeds Arena is not a theatre. The design simply combines the best elements of a theatre design with the best elements of a standard arena design to create something special, modern and unique.

The design is also fully flexible: the Leeds Arena will be able to host events that standard arenas can but, unlike traditional arenas, the design will guarantee an amazing experience for all spectators. Indeed, flat floor seating and 15 rows of retractable seating can be removed to create a huge floor area holding thousands of spectators. Just a few of the many events the Leeds Arena will be able to accommodate include:

■World class music concerts in various configurations
■Comedy events
■Family shows, such as "Walking with Dinosaurs"
■Ice dance shows and family dance shows
■Basketball
■Tennis
■Boxing/ Wrestling/ UFC
■Shows ranging from 1500 capacity to 13,500 capacity
With all of this on offer, when the Leeds Arena opens in early 2013, it will be one of the most exciting venues to visit in Europe.

lol Manchester trolls are pissed that the owner of there beloved arena is wanting them to go to Leeds and not there own.

Funny, Arenas weren't all that important before it suddenly emerged that Leeds would be getting one.

A 13k arena will never be the "Number one in Europe". Give us a fucking break Leeds, stop being so naive.

Like half the Loiners on here they are blinkered to such an extent that they will never question anything slightly positive about Leeds.

touche LNG Cats!!

touche LNG Cats!!

Arf.

You clearly don't read my posts.

You will not find anyone anything like as critical of most things Manc and those who cannot stop talking shite about the place.

Doesn't mean I won't point it out when others, like you, do it about other cities though.

P.S. Still not going to tell us what we will see materially different when the Leeds arena opens?

Funny, Arenas weren't all that important before it suddenly emerged that Leeds would be getting one.

A 13k arena will never be the "Number one in Europe". Give us a fucking break Leeds, stop being so naive.

If you worked in the industry, and I do, the reason it is getting so much attention is because it is the first in the UK and one of only a few in Europe with a totally new design concept being "fanshaped." This new design is being developed in the USA and Far East and is heralded as the future of Arena's.

If you worked in the industry, and I do, the reason it is getting so much attention is because it is the first in the UK and one of only a few in Europe with a totally new design concept being "fanshaped." This new design is being developed in the USA and Far East and is heralded as the future of Arena's.

You are not going to tell us how this will make a material difference are you?

Sky - your confidence in the new arena is glaringly obvious given your unwillingness to make any sort of prediction to back up all these meaningless posts you are making.

BTW - don't significantly fewer people go to the fan shaped arena in Dublin than to the MEN?

Sky - would you say the MEN or Liverpool Echo arena was 'best'?

I suspect most would say Liverpool.

I presume you agree.

The question is who cares?

Right, off to bed now.

You clearly have no confidence that the meaningless terms of flagship, best etc actually mean anything material to any of us in the real world otherwise by now you would have been able to tell us how we will notice it when the Leeds arena manages to be the best flagship arena ever.

The reality is if you questioned yourself for a minute you to would be able to work out that the Leeds arena will be just as successful as the other similar sized arenas in the country.

Right, off to bed now.

You clearly have no confidence that the meaningless terms of flagship, best etc actually mean anything material to any of us in the real world otherwise by now you would have been able to tell us how we will notice it when the Leeds arena manages to be the best flagship arena ever.

The reality is if you questioned yourself for a minute you to would be able to work out that the Leeds arena will be just as successful as the other similar sized arenas in the country.

Ok LNG Cats, there is really no point me trying to get you to understand the significance of this Arena in the UK concert world, so we will have to wait 12 or so months and you will realise for yourself. Just be prepared for a live music experience the likes which has never been seen in the UK before.

MEN is probably the best arena, as far as arenas go, because it can accomodate the most (in the North), which is surely the purpose of an arena.

I think the echo does a good job within Liverpool though, brings in some pretty big names and means you don't always have to trapse across to Manc for a big gig. Other than that arenas are pretty soulles places, been once to the Echo to see the greatest songwriter of all time (Bob Dylan) and it seemed exactly the same as the Hallam arena. Still a great night though, even if he is past it.

Ok LNG Cats, there is really no point me trying to get you to understand the significance of this Arena in the UK concert world, so we will have to wait 12 or so months and you will realise for yourself. Just be prepared for a live music experience the likes which has never been seen in the UK before.

So totally unable to tell us what material effect this will have :lol:

Not even you think it will have any material effect.

So what if it is a new unique experience that no one had experienced before?

You clearly have no idea what that will actually mean for any arena or you would have said so by now :lol:

You clearly give very vague hints that you think Leeds seems will not get the same number of events and visitors as all the other similar sized arenas in the country, you clearly think it will be nearer to the MEN than Liverpool for example.

Yet you are not willing to explicitly state what you do think as you realise out will make you look like a fool in a couple of years.

Ok LNG Cats, there is really no point me trying to get you to understand the significance of this Arena in the UK concert world, so we will have to wait 12 or so months and you will realise for yourself. Just be prepared for a live music experience the likes which has never been seen in the UK before.

Oh :lol: you're all more blinkered than I am and that's saying something.

"Oh no, we're all really scared because Leeds is building something the rest of the UK has had for years and some guy who's building it said it's going to be flagship cause it's shaped like a fan".

Ok then. I suppose you're predicting tumbleweed through the MEN in 5 years time, because "everyone wants to go to Leeds because it's shaped like a fan" :lol:

Fact of the matter is, these days, bands and musicians and TV Talent shows and sports shows all want MONEY. They don't care if it's "flagship" or "fan shaped" that means jack shit. Which ever place they can cram the most people in, they'll go for. That's why everybody chooses, and will continue to choose, Manchester.

You guys are just starting this arena thing. Manchester's been at it for years. And Birmingham. In fact, in Manchester, our arena is used so much that many shows have to spill out into Old Trafford Stadium, LCCC Stadium and the Etihad Stadium. Bands want to play Manchester. I assume the same set up occurs in Birmingham.

In fact, this summer, Heaton Park will be home to the Stone Roses. One of the biggest concerts in history. Tickets are already sold out and people will be coming from all over the world to see the SR return. We're talking hundreds of thousands of people here.

And while that's on in Heaton Park, I've no doubt that they'll be a show on at the MEN every night, and then other concerts on around the various stadiums, including football matches.

In fact, if there's any city in the UK which can deal with stadium crowds best, it's Manchester. People already flock here from worldwide to see Manchester United play.

You also have to factor in Leeds' musical heritage, or rather the lack of it. The reason Stone Roses are playing Heaton Park this summer is because they formed here. Leeds doesn't have anything LIKE that. No famous bands have ever come from Leeds, ever.

So, which city do YOU think will still be a major WORLD arena city in 2013? Manchester, with its 3 stadiums frequently in use, one of the largest concerts in history, and the world's second largest arena. Or Leeds, a city only just building its' "flagship fan-shaped" arena? :)

Manchester has nothing to worry about with Leeds Arena... it's Sheffield that is close enough to Leeds that bands will favour Leeds over Sheffield in a UK tour (where both are not possible).

It'll have no effect on any arena,it will just become part of the touring circuit,the biggest bands will always go to Manchester first if they're only doing a limited tour (because it's the biggest) and occasionally the rest will get a look in.I can't believe how deluded you're all being,when it beds in and the initial "let's play the new arena" factor wares off,it'll be just like anywhere else,MEN aside.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=87527685#post87527685
Delusional beyond belief.^^

MEN.

The Dalai Lama will address tens of thousands of people at the Manchester Arena as part of a three-day visit to the city.

The Buddhist spiritual leader will make Manchester the focus of his UK tour in June which will also see him make one-day stops in London and Glasgow.

It is the first time Dalai Lama has visited Manchester since July 1996 when he addressed thousands in the final public event at the Free Trade Hall.

The 76-year-old, a former Nobel Peace Prize winner, will address crowds at the arena on June 16, 17 and 18.

His followers say he will spread the message of non-violence and compassion in the wake of last summer's riots in Manchester and Salford.

Spokesman for the Dalai Lama, Thubden Samdup, told the M.E.N: “This visit will be an opportunity for people across the UK to hear the message of this globally recognised spiritual and moral authority.

“In particular his message will encourage youth across the UK to seriously consider their unique potential as decisive catalysts for peace, able to bring to reality the better world they hope to inhabit.”

The addresses will include a special event for young people in the city on Sunday 16, and a question and answer session with His Holiness on Sunday 17.

The 14th Dalai Lama has been at the head of the Buddhist church since 1950 and made his first visit to the UK in 1973.

:)In fact, this summer, Heaton Park will be home to the Stone Roses. One of the biggest concerts in history. Tickets are already sold out and people will be coming from all over the world to see the SR return. We're talking hundreds of thousands of people here.

And while that's on in Heaton Park, I've no doubt that they'll be a show on at the MEN every night, and then other concerts on around the various stadiums, including football matches.





Just for the record, Leeds is pretty good for the big outdoor music events as well.......Leeds festival 80,000 people, Party in the Park is one of the biggest free pop concert in the UK, 70,000 people, and Opera in the park, with 50,000 people, plus numerous gigs every year at Millennium Square in the heart of the city which holds almost 10,000 people and is purpose built for outdoor events and concerts.

Leeds Fest is in Bramham Park, miles out of the city. I know cause I went.

Heaton Park SR is right in the inner suburbs about 5miles away from the city. People will be using the Met to get there, they'll be staying in city centre hotels, shopping in the city and using the city's bars and restaurants, whilst also still using the Met to get around town. This will do wonders for the economy!

In Leeds Fest most people camp. And whilst I've no doubt the publicity is good for Leeds, it doesn't bring as much in hotels, bars, restaurants, shops and transport money as Manchester does when it has an event on in Heaton Park.

Can't speak for the others, but I presume all of them bar the Millenium Square one have the same effect.

If Leeds claims Leeds fest then Liverpool can claim Creamfields.

In fact, this summer, Heaton Park will be home to the Stone Roses. One of the biggest concerts in history. Tickets are already sold out and people will be coming from all over the world to see the SR return. We're talking hundreds of thousands of people here.

And while that's on in Heaton Park, I've no doubt that they'll be a show on at the MEN every night, and then other concerts on around the various stadiums, including football matches.

Just for the record, Leeds is pretty good for the big outdoor music events as well.......Leeds festival 80,000 people, Party in the Park is one of the biggest free pop concert in the UK, 70,000 people, and Opera in the park, with 50,000 people, plus numerous gigs every year at Millennium Square in the heart of the city which holds almost 10,000 people and is purpose built for outdoor events and concerts.

Still not confident of putting a material effect on the totally meaningless terms of flagship and best.

Still not able to tell us that these terms will make a hit of difference :lol:

Good luck, the city you live in will soon have an arena. Just 20 odd years behind cities like Sheffield. Who knows in another 60 years you may be able to over egg a proposed tram network, claiming that to be the best in the world, a good 80 years after neighbouring Sheffield hot:a purely good version :lol:

If Leeds claims Leeds fest then Liverpool can claim Creamfields.

maybe its because its in Leeds is why its called Leedsfest!!! Bramham is in the Leeds city boundry and is an area of Leeds. Don't believe me and you won't, then look at the official Bramham website, first paragraph:

http://www.bramham.org.uk/contact_us.htm

If Leeds claims Leeds fest then Liverpool can claim Creamfields.

And Birmingham (Global Gathering), LOL

Leeds Fest is in Bramham Park, miles out of the city. I know cause I went.

Heaton Park SR is right in the inner suburbs about 5miles away from the city. People will be using the Met to get there, they'll be staying in city centre hotels, shopping in the city and using the city's bars and restaurants, whilst also still using the Met to get around town. This will do wonders for the economy!

In Leeds Fest most people camp. And whilst I've no doubt the publicity is good for Leeds, it doesn't bring as much in hotels, bars, restaurants, shops and transport money as Manchester does when it has an event on in Heaton Park.

Can't speak for the others, but I presume all of them bar the Millenium Square one have the same effect.

Leedsfest brings in millions of pounds to the Leeds economy every year. Whilst a proportion of people travel by car, many use the Leedsfest shuttle buses which go from Leeds City Centre. The whole city centre is geared for this and takes full advantage and there are special trains to Leeds City Station which then go out to suburban stations east of Leeds close to the site.

Party in the Park and Opera in the Park is a 2 day event each year (120,000 people) and is at Temple Newsam which is about the same distance from Leeds City Centre as Heaton Park is from Manc City Centre. Again the city centre takes full advantage with special shuttle buses and trains which go to Crossgates station just a short distance form the site. Again this brings in millions to the Leeds economy each year.

As for Millennium Square, well you can't have a better opportunity to bring people into the City Centre when the Square has over 60 events a year bringing in over 1 million people a year in a purpose built outdoor entertainment venue which has a stage and technical area which are underground when not used and are then raised for events.

Here's the webcam:

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/popup.html

maybe its because its in Leeds is why its called Leedsfest!!! Bramham is in the Leeds city boundry and is an area of Leeds. Don't believe me and you won't, then look at the official Bramham website, first paragraph:

http://www.bramham.org.uk/contact_us.htm

You don't half come out with some irrelevant crap don't you :lol:

Without question.

Flagship, best, middle of the countryside crap :lol:

You don't half come out with some irrelevant crap don't you :lol:

Without question.

Flagship, best, middle of the countryside crap :lol:

Middle of the countryside, Bramham is one of Leeds most desirable suburbs with large detached properties. Even when the OFFICIAL website says its the city boundaries of Leeds, you don't believe it. Its like hitting your head against a brick wall with you:gaah: Think you might be getting Leedsitus like your other Manc friends!!

That little village is actually within the city boundaries? Jesus, I knew Leeds exaggerated their population but that's just silly!

Anyone who's been to Leeds festival will know that Bramham is clearly not in Leeds, it's a village!

Either that or Leeds is the strangest city ever and is nothing like other urban areas.

Middle of the countryside, Bramham is one of Leeds most desirable suburbs with large detached properties. Even when the OFFICIAL website says its the city boundaries of Leeds, you don't believe it. Its like hitting your head against a brick wall with you:gaah: Think you might be getting Leedsitus like your other Manc friends!!

No, I know it is in some artificial boundary, but just as with the arena I am capable of seeing the bigger picture, something your blinkers clearly obstruct.

Leedsfest brings in millions of pounds to the Leeds economy every year. Whilst a proportion of people travel by car, many use the Leedsfest shuttle buses which go from Leeds City Centre. The whole city centre is geared for this and takes full advantage and there are special trains to Leeds City Station which then go out to suburban stations east of Leeds close to the site.

Party in the Park and Opera in the Park is a 2 day event each year (120,000 people) and is at Temple Newsam which is about the same distance from Leeds City Centre as Heaton Park is from Manc City Centre. Again the city centre takes full advantage with special shuttle buses and trains which go to Crossgates station just a short distance form the site. Again this brings in millions to the Leeds economy each year.

As for Millennium Square, well you can't have a better opportunity to bring people into the City Centre when the Square has over 60 events a year bringing in over 1 million people a year in a purpose built outdoor entertainment venue which has a stage and technical area which are underground when not used and are then raised for events.

Here's the webcam:

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/popup.html


I'm sure it's great. But most people DO camp for these events (except, as I said, Millenium Square.)

In Manchester, they use the hotels and local facilities, which brings millions more to the economy than a festival.

Just looked at Bramham Park on Google Maps, it's definitely in the countryside. Leeds really does exaggerate its boundaries!

That little village is actually within the city boundaries? Jesus, I knew Leeds exaggerated their population but that's just silly!

I don't think sky thinks about the meaning of authority boundaries.

Just like he does not think about what the SMG boss was talking about.

No, I know it is in some artificial boundary, but just as with the arena I am capable of seeing the bigger picture, something your blinkers clearly obstruct.

This is getting stupid. How the hell would you, a Manc person, know what is in the boundaries of Leeds. If you go on the Leeds website, you will see Bramham is indeed an area of Leeds within the city boundaries. If you live in Bramham, your address is Bramham, Leeds.

Just because Leeds was fortunate to have its boudaries extended in 1974, stop questioning which areas are or are not in the city nearly 40 years later!!

Doesn't matter if it's in the city boundaries or not. It's quite clearly a far off village from the city of Leeds itself, and not in the suburbs like you suggested.

Just to clarify, you do know what suburbia looks like, don't you?

Lets compare. This is Bramham Park;

http://i44.tinypic.com/j938up.jpg

And this is Cheadle Hulme, a suburb of South Manchester;

http://i43.tinypic.com/25ewaoh.jpg

Bramham quite clearly isn't a part of Leeds (although it is in the authority boundary)

This is getting stupid. How the hell would you, a Manc person, know what is in the boundaries of Leeds. If you go on the Leeds website, you will see Bramham is indeed an area of Leeds within the city boundaries. If you live in Bramham, your address is Bramham, Leeds.

Just because Leeds was fortunate to have its boudaries extended in 1974, stop questioning which areas are or are not in the city nearly 40 years later!!

No. I know it is in the local authority , but so what???

Again, like with the arena, what possible material difference does make whether or it it's in the same authority?

The fact you posts the it is in the fortunate position that Leeds has a large local authority is yet another sign of how you totally fail to see the bigger picture :lol:

Still no arena predictions???

Actually good point of discussion. The Brummies and Loiners, what averages are there with having a huge council?

I would have thought our makes it to undemocratic and distant.

No. I know it is in the local authority bounsaturated, but so what???

Again, like with the arena, what possible material difference does make whether or it it's in the same authority?

The fact you posts the it is in the fortunate position that Leeds has a large local authority is yet another sign of how you totally fail to see the bigger picture :lol:

Still no arena predictions???

Whats with the predictions. Bit early for that as we still have over a year to go before launch. I am sure SMG will release details for its first events once tickets are being sold in the next 6 months and we will be able to get an idea of numbers. Also expect to see a major brand sponsor announced as well around the same time.

I am asking you what the material effect of your claims will be.

Remembering the Liverpool Echo arena had the MTV European awards and the Sports Personality of the Year in the first year, do you expect Leeds to equal that?

You have been bigging up the arena as if it is something special yet have no idea how that will be seen in reality :lol:

Oh and if you are now saying you don't know of the Leeds stemma with get more events than elsewhere, what have you been going on about for the last two years?

You are the one so sure that out will not be the same as the other arenas :lol:

Oh and if you are now saying you don't know of the Leeds arena with get more events than elsewhere, what have you been going on about for the last two years?

You are the one so sure that out will not be the same as the other arenas :lol:

Bramham quite clearly isn't a part of Leeds (although it is in the authority boundary)

Again your arrogance is unbeleivable. How can you make that statement when you don't know. The official Bramham website states it is part of Leeds, and people in Bramham write their address as Bramham, Leeds.

Lets move on back to topic, because you guys will always say red is black and black is red!!....................

Again your arrogance is unbeleivable. How can you make that statement when you don't know. The official Bramham website states it is part of Leeds, and people in Bramham write their address as Bramham, Leeds.

Lets move on back to topic, because you guys will always say red is black and black is red!!....................

See the bigger picture.

So what if it is in the same local authority. For once, just once, tell is what material difference that makes???

See the bigger picture.

So what if it is in the same local authority. For once, just once, tell is what material difference that makes???

nearly 40 years ago Leeds grew in size and became one of the UK's biggest cities.....fact........everyone accepts it, and never questions it except you Manc forumers. What does that say about you guys???

double post

Yes, no one denies that if you consider a city to be determined by a local authority it is the second largest in the country.

No one cares either.

The question you have not answered so far is so what???

Having a large local authority means absolutely nothing does it?

I expect similar non
existent answers as per the arena :lol:

Yes, no one denies that if you consider a city to be determined by a local authority it is the second largest in the country.

No one cares either.

The question you have not answered so far is so what???

Having a large local authority means absolutely nothing does it?

I expect similar non
existent answers as per the arena :lol:


I never said anyone should care about the size of Leeds, but it clearly makes a difference when it comes to the city being the powerhouse of the Yorkshire economy. Its why the media is based here, why its the centre for transport, shopping. leisure, for the region. Its why it became such a large financial centre and is seen as one of the UK's major cities hense the reason why Leeds was chosen as the route for HS2 along with Manc, Birmingham, and London

I will give you a clue.

It has nothing to do with the size of the local authority.

But you fail to see that :lol:

nearly 40 years ago Leeds grew in size and became one of the UK's biggest cities.....fact........everyone accepts it, and never questions it except you Manc forumers. What does that say about you guys???

Okay fine. If you're gonna have Bramham in your metropolitan area, with all that countryside inbetween the TRUE metropolitan area of Leeds and the park, then we'll have Preston, Wigan, Macclesfield, Warrington and Chester in our urban area. Population, what, 5 million?

Leeds' people, do you really think Braham is part of Leeds, seriously?

If you do, then do you include places like Formby and Alderley edge in Lpool and Manc? Because that is the equivalent.

The city of Leeds as an authority is different from the urban space of Leeds.

Sky, have you ever put ant serious thoughts, thoughts into what you post? I mean seriously?

Have you every questioned what difference having a large local authority means compared to what it would mean top have a much smaller authority?

In the real world I mean?

If people travel, work, and do everything in urban Leeds then I see no reason why Braham can't be part of Leeds. For example I live in Bramhope a suburb on the edge of North Leeds separated by some fields. Theres a corner shop and a pub. I buy everything, work, and study, in urban Leeds and I'm in the Leeds LA. So I, as does everyone else who lives in similar places class themselves living in Leeds. They don't say 'oh I live in Otley etc' no they say Leeds. My taxes are paid to Leeds city council, the bin men are from Leeds city council not Bramhope.

Get over the fact your council was too lazy to expand its boundary's instead of relying on this Greater Manchester nonsense.

Leeds' people, do you really think Braham is part of Leeds, seriously?

If you do, then do you include places like Formby and Alderley edge in Lpool and Manc? Because that is the equivalent.

The city of Leeds as an authority is different from the urban space of Leeds.

For the last time for you Manc forumers, Bramham is within the Leeds city boundary. There's a bl**dy great sign down the road from the place which says "Welcome to Leeds"


.....is Formby within the Liverpool city boundary....no. Is Alderley Edge in the Manc city boundary....no. Now lets move on......

If people travel, work, and do everything in urban Leeds then I see no reason why Braham can't be part of Leeds. For example I live in Bramhope a suburb on the edge of North Leeds separated by some fields. Theres a corner shop and a pub. I buy everything, work, and study, in urban Leeds and I'm in the Leeds LA. So I, as does everyone else who lives in similar places class themselves living in Leeds. They don't say 'oh I live in Otley etc' no they say Leeds. My taxes are paid to Leeds city council, the bin men are from Leeds city council not Bramhope.

Get over the fact your council was too lazy to expand its boundary's instead of relying on this Greater Manchester nonsense.

Yor really do have to despair how agrieved the Manc lot are because in 1974 we expanded our city and they didn't. Nobody else gives two hoots and just accepts it, but not our Manc forumers.

We get all heated about it because when one of us suggests that Salford Quays is a part of Manchester the Loiner lot are the first to jump on our backs with their boundary border fetish.

So Salford Quays, an area not one mile from Manchester itself, isn't a part of Manchester, yet Bramley, an area which many would consider countryside somehow is part of Leeds? It's barmy.

And anyway I prefer Greater Manchester the way it is. It's getting expensive to live within Manchester borders, so it's better living in one of the 9 other boroughs but still being able to commute to the City easily.

We get all heated about it because when one of us suggests that Salford Quays is a part of Manchester the Loiner lot are the first to jump on our backs with their boundary border fetish.

So Salford Quays, an area not one mile from Manchester itself, isn't a part of Manchester, yet Bramley, an area which many would consider countryside somehow is part of Leeds? It's barmy.

And anyway I prefer Greater Manchester the way it is. It's getting expensive to live within Manchester borders, so it's better living in one of the 9 other boroughs but still being able to commute to the City easily.

Bramley? At least get your Leeds areas right!

See the wider picture, give it a go.

Think what does it matter.

I know you are blinkered, brain wanted and incapable of your own thought, but let us all know the huge differences that having a village in the Leeds local authority makes to the seme of things.

The last couple of days have down you very much to be more interested in irrelevant, none important crap than seeing the bigger picture.
I tell you what, as you continue to see the world as you do you'll never understand why tiny ikkle Leeds gets so little infrastructure.

:lol:

Still at least we more ignore Leeds is about 20 years behind Sheffield

For the last time for you Manc forumers, Bramham is within the Leeds city boundary. There's a bl**dy great sign down the road from the place which says "Welcome to Leeds"


.....is Formby within the Liverpool city boundary....no. Is Alderley Edge in the Manc city boundary....no. Now lets move on......

Can you not tell that Formby and Alderley Edge are the equivalent?

It's not in Leeds, a city is one continuous urban environment...come the fuck on man, Leeds just isn't that big.

.........and we are ahead of Manchester as we have more major law firms.

:tyty:

Let us know, if letters local authority was cut in half, what difference, would the locals notice?

Would they suddenly have a light rail system like you would love, like Sheffield has had for years?

Would it provide a conference centre like just about ever large city in the UK has?

No, doubt it.

Leeds would remain the small town with bugger all infrastructure

These comparisons still make me laugh. Leeds is a neat place but Manchester is just better in every way. It simply is on account of it being twice the size.

understand why tiny ikkle Leeds gets so little infrastructure.

:lol:



Whats this about "the bigger picture" crap you keep coming out with.

Tiny ikkle Leeds.........aahh your Leedsitus is getting bad again!!

So little infrastructure...... I don't understand.....do tell us what you mean?

These comparisons still make me laugh. Leeds is a neat place but Manchester is just better in every way. It simply is on account of it being twice the size.

I'm surprised you've been drawn into the 'we're miles better than you stuff', I do agree though.

Leeds is a large city in the UK. Be happy with it.

Bristol is smaller but miles, miles better, size isn't everything as your girlfriend tells you every night.

Can you not tell that Formby and Alderley Edge are the equivalent?

It's not in Leeds, a city is one continuous urban environment...come the fuck on man, Leeds just isn't that big.

A city is determined by its city boundaries....fact....period....full stop. There is no other definition. I will say it again for those who do not understand in basic geographical terms which a school child would understand ........a city is determined by its city boundaries. Within those boundaries, all residents are counted as that city's population.

In Leeds case, the population was 715,000 in 2001 and is projected to be almost 800,000 in the 2011 census. Oh and that includes about 2,000 people in sweet beautiful Bramham!!!

Or your boyfriend, no homophobia here.

A city is determined by its city boundaries....fact....period....full stop. There is no other definition. I will say it again for those who do not understand in basic geographical terms which a school child would understand ........a city is determined by its city boundaries. Within those boundaries, all residents are counted as that city's population.


Do you not think that Leeds is measured by rather strange boundaries compared to Manc and Liverpool, who are both larger if measured by boundaries consistent with Leeds? Even without that, you can measure Manchester and Liverpool by their urban expanse and they're both bigger.

Leeds is not very big and you can tell this by the city centre, there are no grand buildings and the city centre resembles other Yorkshire towns.

A city is determined by its city boundaries....fact....period....full stop. There is no other definition. I will say it again for those who do not understand in basic geographical terms which a school child would understand ........a city is determined by its city boundaries. Within those boundaries, all residents are counted as that city's population.

In Leeds case, the population was 715,000 in 2001 and is projected to be almost 800,000 in the 2011 census. Oh and that includes about 2,000 people in sweet beautiful Bramham!!!

So people who live in Salford Quays, just half a mile from the centre of Manchester, aren't included as Manchester residents?

Delusion of the highest order.

Arf, you don't get it do you.

So if some bloke at SMG says something about a flagship arena, that means nothing, you grasp onto out it desperate for something important.

You don't get the while idea of discussing infants local to our selves and the effect they have.

so far you have totally failed to give us a clue about how you think the Leeds seems will perform.

So far you have totally failed to grasp the fact that even if some village is in the same local authority as the urban lump most people know as Leeds, it will not mean that people going to that village will contribute to the economy of the urban area known as Leeds.

Great, we get it. Leeds local authority covers a huge area and a huge population.

The question you have still not answered is SO WHAT???

That huge authority had given you bugger all infrastructure as it is so rural.

So share with us. what advantages are there in having a large local authority?

Do you not think that Leeds is measured by rather strange boundaries compared to Manc and Liverpool, who are both larger if measured by boundaries consistent with Leeds? Even without that, you can measure Manchester and Liverpool by their urban expanse and they're both bigger.

Leeds is not very big and you can tell this by the city centre, there are no grand buildings and the city centre resembles other Yorkshire towns.

How many times have we covered this topic. Last time this came up we showed that Manc had some grand buildings such as The Town Hall, and we also showed that Leeds has equally fine buildings the likes of its Town Hall, Civic Hall, Corn Exchange, and Victoria Quarter, arguably the finest shopping centre in the UK for its exquisite elaborate marble malls.

So people who live in Salford Quays, just half a mile from the centre of Manchester, aren't included as Manchester residents?

Delusion of the highest order.

You obviously don't even know the difference from Greater Manchester and Manchester (the city) and you call yourself a manc...

I'm surprised you've been drawn into the 'we're miles better than you stuff', I do agree though.

It's just true though isn't it? If someone was comparing Manchester to Berlin or Milan I'd say the same thing about Manchester. It's as ludicrous a discussion for me. Manchester is simply better/bigger/more exciting in every way than Leeds.

How many times have we covered this topic. Last time this came up we showed that Manc had some grand buildings such as The Town Hall, and we also showed that Leeds has equally fine buildings the likes of its Town Hall, Civic Hall, Corn Exchange, and Victoria Quarter, arguably the finest shopping centre in the UK for its exquisite elaborate marble malls.

I'm asking you, do you not see the very strange way Leeds is measure as a city compared to EVERY OTHER city?

Leeds does have some nice buildings, but on the whole it doesn't have anything to suggest it's a major city, because, by and large, it never has been.

Just to remind you why you don't get it.

I life in Trafford.

We have a tram line.

We have another tram line under construction.

Both within 2 km of my house.

We have time the Trafford Centre and Manc city centre within walking distance.

I have several CONFERENCE facilities within a short tram ride away.

I have the largest football ground in the land in Trafford.

I live in the area with the highest wagers in an urban area in the north.

We have just about ever single item of infrastructure that is asked for on the Leeds forum.

And a hell of a lot more.

Not bad for an authority a third the size of Leeds.

But then again, maybe, just maybe, the infrastructure we tag about on here has no relationship to how many live within a local authority???

So yes, celebrate you live in the second largest authority in the UK, but then ask yourself what good out does for you??? :lol:

I'm asking you, do you not see the very strange way Leeds is measure as a city compared to EVERY OTHER city?

Leeds does have some nice buildings, but on the whole it doesn't have anything to suggest it's a major city, because, by and large, it never has been.

"By and large"......oh albionfagon,is there a hint from you that Leeds may sometimes be a major city then????? Surely not.

As for the strange way Leeds pop is measured. Well Leeds took the initiative to suggest to the boundary commission in 1974 that is could disband 4 small council areas (Airborough, Pudsey, Morley, Wetherby) and incorporate them in a new expanded Leeds City area, then good on them. Thats what they did, and thats what happened.

If no other city took the opportunity to do this, then surely that is their fault.

"By and large"......oh albionfagon,is there a hint from you that Leeds may sometimes be a major city then????? Surely not.

As for the strange way Leeds pop is measured. Well if Leeds took the initiative to suggest to the boundary commission in 1974 that is could disband 4 small council areas (Airborough, Pudsey, Morley, Wetherby) and incorporate them in a new expanded Leeds City area, then good on them. Thats what they did, and thats what happened.

If no other city took the opportunity to do this, then surely that is their fault.

Tell me,a per my post on the last page, what benefit do you get from such a large population?

Seems pretty Shite to me. Tiny Trafford (see last post) has miles more going for it :lol:

Just to remind you why you don't get it.

I life in Trafford.

We have a tram line.

We have another tram line under construction.

Both within 2 km of my house.

We have time the Trafford Centre and Manc city centre within walking distance.

I have several CONFERENCE facilities within a short tram ride away.

I have the largest football ground in the land in Trafford.

I live in the area with the highest wagers in an urban area in the north.

We have just about ever single item of infrastructure that is asked for on the Leeds forum.

And a hell of a lot more.

Not bad for an authority a third the size of Leeds.

But then again, maybe, just maybe, the infrastructure we tag about on here has no relationship to how many live within a local authority???

So yes, celebrate you live in the second largest authority in the UK, but then ask yourself what good out does for you??? :lol:

....Still isn't Leeds though.

So what??

For two days you've made meaningless statements.

Break your mould.

Tell us why having a large authority is so great. What does if give the population of Leeds??

Me thinks just as you could not back up your feeble arena position you cannot back this one up either :lol:

What has the large authority population of Leeds given it's population that I don't have in tiny Trafford??

Fuck all :lol:

So what??

For two days you've made meaningless statements.

Break your mould.

Tell us why having a large authority is so great. What does if give the population of Leeds??

Me thinks just as you could not back up your feeble arena position you cannot back this one up either :lol:

What has the large authority population of Leeds given it's population that I don't have in tiny Trafford??

Fuck all :lol:

Don't go disappearing now.

So what??

For two days you've made meaningless statements.

Break your mould.

Tell us why having a large authority is so great. What does if give the population of Leeds??

Me thinks just as you could not back up your feeble arena position you cannot back this one up either :lol:

What has the large authority population of Leeds given it's population that I don't have in tiny Trafford??

Fuck all :lol:

Do your own homework and find out how successful Leeds is as a major regional capital and powerhouse of a regional economy covering almost 5m people. Look at its GDP, look at its Leeds City Region, almost the same GDP as Mancs. Why the hell has it been chosen for HS2. It is one of the UK's leading cities. You will never agree, whilst I will always accept Manchester position as probably the UK's second city. I have never disputed that. I have worked in Manc for 8 years in high profile media positions, and I have great respect for its success, but don't be so abusive about what Leeds has achieved. Its quality of life and magnifient countryside makes Leeds a far more attractive place to live for me, maybe not for you, but don't ever say Leeds has done f**k all.

I give up.

You really are that fucking daft.

You think that HS2 etc is going to Leeds because it has a large local authority. :lol:

Not confusing issues at all are you.

Ok.

Good luck in your future career.

I fear it will be limited if your posts on here are anything to go by.

Night night.

P.S. never ever said Leeds was not a great place to live.

Just waiting for sky to explain why having a large authority is so great.

I bet he cannot :lol:

P.S. never ever said Leeds was not a great place to live.

Just waiting for sky to explain why having a large authority is so great.

I bet he cannot :lol:

Look at my post above, and you will see, or in your case probably not. Thats what Leedsitus does to you!

No I understand.

Leeds is a medium sized city in the north of the UK work lots of reasons to be positive about the last ten years.

Still miles behind similar sized cities in the south such a Bristol but hey, overall better off than the much bigger northern neighbours in Manc, Scousepool and Brum.

Still, given the nature of these forum and the discussion about infrastructure, Leeds is about on the ball, right where you'd put the 7th or 8th largest urban area.

Just a shame you are one of those that pretends that Leeds is one of the top 2 or 3 cities for infrastructure in the country.

Btw - still no idea how you think under the flagship SMG arena will manifest itself to us mortals

Sky - not going to tell us about how you think the Leeds arena will so out perform the other arenas when it opens?

Not going to explain to us why having a large local authority is so beneficial?

Some would say you cannot back up your bullshit and you cannot see the bigger picture :lol:

Still miles behind similar sized cities in the south such a Bristol but hey, overall better off than the much bigger northern neighbours in Manc, Scousepool and Brum.
.

lol the facts and figures show otherwise. As has already been proven Leeds Performs the same in Employment etc yet vastly outperforms in retail, finance, manufacturing etc.

I'm not necessarily sure how much money Leeds Fest brings into Leeds, but the Carnival will bring in loads. Far more people attend that than the Festival. Events in Roundhay Park must also bring in a lot of cash.

Night night sky.
My delayed train is nearly home.
For two nights in the run you've done yourself proud.
Come out with wild, bullshit statements and not been able to explain to any of us how we should recognise the new uber successful Leeds arena.
Not able to give a single reason why we would want a have large local authority, in fact, you give the impression you have not thought about very much at all.

So anyway. If you want a prosperous middle sized city move to Bristol. If you want to live in a large city.....

I'm not necessarily sure how much money Leeds Fest brings into Leeds, but the Carnival will bring in loads. Far more people attend that than the Festival. Events in Roundhay Park must also bring in a lot of cash.

The festival will bring in loads.

It means a lot to sky.

Please don't burst his bubble..

Anyone whos been to both Leeds and Bristol could clearly tell which is the larger more "prosperous" city and it isn't Bristol

I thought Bristol was doing well for itself.

I thought Bristol was doing well for itself.

Brizzle is ace.

But not sure it is doing that well though.

Then again I am very far from sure that anywhere in the UK is that well 4 years into the current economic down turn.

It depresses me that this discussion is still happening. Leeds is a massive financial centre FFS!

Though I would rank Bristol higher personally, it has the advantage of being the centre of it's region whilst Leeds is kind of huddled with other major cities like Sheffield and Manchester all competing for dominance.

Anyone whos been to both Leeds and Bristol could clearly tell which is the larger more "prosperous" city and it isn't Bristol

Bristol has had more money pumped into it in the past though, and it shows in its older buildings, which can rival anywhere in the UK outside London... but in the last few decades nothing much has happened, so Leeds has shot past it.

I love both cities, but Bristol might be better for the tourist(?) - there's nothing like relaxing on the Clifton Downs with a good view of the suspension bridge. Nowhere in the UK has anything like it.

Funny this. I've always thought Leeds and Bristol were probably the two most overrated cities in the UK.

Nowhere in the UK has anything like it

What? riverside woodland?

Yor really do have to despair how agrieved the Manc lot are because in 1974 we expanded our city and they didn't. Nobody else gives two hoots and just accepts it, but not our Manc forumers.

Despair?

Erm.... No!

If despair means the following, then...........

Metrolink expansion.
Noma.
Airport City.
Mediacity expansion/Manchester Media
Wakefield Street Tower.
New COOP HQ.
AGMA/Manchester City Region.
United.
City.
MEN Arena(Old Trafford, Old Trafford cricket ground, COMS, Heaton Park, etc)
First Street.
Spinningfields.
MCFC: Aniline site/Etihad Campus/Collar Leisure proposal.
Manchester Airport.(booming)
Victoria Station upgrade.
Chets.
Northern Hub.
Ordsall curve.
HS2.(I'll probably be dead by then)
Etc, etc.

If you honestly think any of us Mancunian forum members are bothered in the slightest about Leeds boundries comapred to Manchester's boundries, then you're totally deluded.

Sky not answer the arena question yet :lol:

Or given any inclination about why having a large local authority is something to desire?


No, seems not. Seems he just makes his posting with having not actually having thought about why he thinks what he is posting :lol:

Yeah as jrb said, much more has happened here than in Leeds in the past 10 years. Most of the stuff which happens in Manchester would be a mere wet dream for a Loiner.

How'd you like the biggest tram system in the UK, Leeds?

Oh wait no, government doesn't think your city is good enough for one. Still, buses with wires appears to be a good plan B :lol:

Pathetic. You're all just pathetic. You get second-rate things, like a second rate arena and a second rate transport infastructure, and then you try and take down cities like Manchester and even Sheffield, that both have supreme versions of the ones you have.

- World Class Arena, second busiest on the planet.
- UK's largest light rail network by 2016.

How can Leeds possibly compete with those two alone? It can't. So stop trying.

P.S. Brizzle is far more prosperous than any northern city.

I am not talking about about tall building in the city centre or any other vanity projects.

I am talking about quality of live. Things like median wage, unemployent, issues that gow ith having a lots of poor people such as poor health, high teenage pregnancy levels, decent housing stock for the poor etc etc.

So yes, if you want to focus on vanity projects that do not affect the quality of life of the majority in our cities I am sure you can big up any city.

However, look at the quality of life for the populations in these cities and see the bigger pictire (I know it is hard Sky, but give it a go).

If you honestly think any of us Mancunian forum members are bothered in the slightest about Leeds boundries comapred to Manchester's boundries, then you're totally deluded.

Indeed.

Please do explain that part of your post Sky.

Why omn earth would anyone want a large local authority?

Surely it simply makes the population further from the decision makers, i.e. less democratic.

and yes, as I have posted many times, I would much prefer all GM authorities to be made much smaller, none bigger than about 200-300k - like in London - meaning the Manchester local authority needs to be split in two at least in my head.

P.S. Brizzle is far more prosperous than any northern city.

I am not talking about about tall building in the city centre or any other vanity projects.

I am talking about quality of live. Things like median wage, unemployent, issues that gow ith having a lots of poor people such as poor health, high teenage pregnancy levels, decent housing stock for the poor etc etc.

So yes, if you want to focus on vanity projects that do not affect the quality of life of the majority in our cities I am sure you can big up any city.

However, look at the quality of life for the populations in these cities and see the bigger pictire (I know it is hard Sky, but give it a go).

But don't vanity projects improve the quality of life in cities?

Look at Mediacity. Currently most if not all the posts are filled by people already employed by the BBC or have moved to Manchester to work for the BBC at Mediacity. However, future generations living in Salford and Manchester will eventually take those jobs. Without Mediacity and the other related companies/jobs springing up on a daily basis, those future generations would have very little or nothing to aspire too.

The same will be true for East Manchester when the traning complex, Etihad Campus and Leisure destination are built.

Whatever you think about vanity projects, they serve a purpose and act as a driver.(Metrolink, Airport City, etc)

Lets tour round the spectrum shall we? If Leeds really wants to try and compete with Manchester, they can consult this first and we'll play top trumps. See this not as a provoking post, but more of a slap in the face "wake up, stop being so naive, Manchester is superior to Leeds in every kind of way" kind of post.

Transport

- Metrolink. By 2016, it'll be the largest light rail system in the UK and one of the largest in Europe. The system already caters for 20 million people per year, and the new extensions are reaching out to more than a million people across the conurbation, improving transport for all. Leeds doesn't have a light rail network, nor is it building or planning to build one.


- Train network. Greater Manchester has a rail network of 130 route miles (209 km) and 91 stations. Leeds has 14 rail stations.


- Motorway Network. After Birmingham, we have arguably the best in the country. Considering 1/3 of households here in Greater Manchester don't own a car, it still seems pretty important to us.

Our orbital M60 ensures that 9/10 boroughs are connected together and busy motorways from across the country feed into the network. All major roads and other motorways into the City are linked, making driving around Greater Manchester a dabble.

Can't speak for Leeds, but I know it doesn't have an orbital motorway.


- Bus network. It's not the best, but it is one of the biggest.

- Air. We have the third largest airport in the country, and the 25th busiest in Europe. Leeds' airport is off the radar, it's tiny. And it'll never be as big as Manchester's.



Entertainment

Football - Arguably one of the best football cities in the world, people flock here from around the globe to see Manchester United play. Leeds United? What?

Concerts - 2nd busiest arena in the World. Once again, people flock here from across the UK & Europe to watch a concert here. We also use Old Trafford, LCCC, the Etihad and Heaton Park because demand for concerts here is too high for the MEN to cope with. Leeds is only just building an arena, and even then it won't compete with Manchester at all.

Theatres - plenty. But I don't think you can see a show in Manchester that you can't anywhere else though. Nothing special here, move along.

Festivals - the Bi-annual Manchester International Festival has been going from strength to strength recently. Gay Pride Parade, Irish Day festivals, Chinese New Year, Pakistan Independence Day, etc. Heaton Park does a lot in the way of festivals, too.


Retail

Trafford Centre - Leeds forumers constantly bang on about how they'll be better than us in 2013. But tell me, is that just Manchester City Centre, or does it include the Trafford Centre too? TC is massive, needless to say.

Northern Quarter - Vintage goods, cafes and boutique bars. It's all unique. Speaks for itself then that there's no where else in the world like it. I have friends in New York who buy stuff online from here very frequently.


Multiculturalism

Very important within a city if you ask me. In central Manchester, there's a 40% chance that if you bump into someone they'll be of international origin.

- Manchester has one of the largest Irish communities in the UK. Our St Patrick's day parade is one of Europe's largest.

- Manchester has one of the largest Italian communities in the UK.

- Manchester has one of the largest Carribean communities in the UK.

- The Gay Village. People come here from across Europe, too. It's one of Europe's largest gay districts.

- China Town. One of the UK's largest.

- The Curry Mile. Very famous and set in one of the largest Urdu-speaking neighbourhoods in Britain.

- Jewish population here is second only to London.


Media

- Coronation Street is the world's oldest and most watched TV soap.

- City is second only to London in Media output.

- MediaCityUK is Europe's largest purpose-built media complex.

- Various newspapers have been set up here, including the Guardian.


Tourism

- Third most visited by foreign tourists in the UK

- Third most visited by UK tourists, in England.




Oh god I give up. Just get the point and gtfo.

P.S. Brizzle is far more prosperous than any northern city.

I am not talking about about tall building in the city centre or any other vanity projects.

I am talking about quality of live. Things like median wage, unemployent, issues that gow ith having a lots of poor people such as poor health, high teenage pregnancy levels, decent housing stock for the poor etc etc.

So yes, if you want to focus on vanity projects that do not affect the quality of life of the majority in our cities I am sure you can big up any city.

However, look at the quality of life for the populations in these cities and see the bigger pictire (I know it is hard Sky, but give it a go).



But apparently LEEDS is better at all the things above, so he may have a point. ??????????


Not that im joining in this argument, cause ive got better things to be doing on a gawjus sunny winter aftrenoon here in Brum.

Compared to Mancs and Brum that is.

I mean the quality of life and unemployment and stuff like.

A city is not just about having a bigger airport and a bigger metro.

I don't consider the job creation if MediaCity a vanity project.
I do think it's significance it's overdone though.

If I had to live in one of the Core Cities it would be Bristol by a county mile. Bristol is immense. It has a totally different vibe to the Northern Cities as well, like a big Bath (the City not the Washing Implement).

If I had to move South I'd choose Bristol too. Cities like Oxford, Cambridge and Bath are lovely for a few days but seem a bit surreal after that - Bristol's as down to earth as the west country accent, has a good vibe about it, and good links to London. I've always felt at home there.

Never been to Bristol, Il have to sometime.

Bristol is nice enough, but I prefer the industrial magnificence of the Northern cities.

Plus Bristol is in the South.

Bristol is in the Westcountry, yes it is in the Southern Half of the country but it's not Southern, the Westcountry is it's own thing.

Bristol is a truly magnificant city, it also grew a lot earlier than the Northern Cities (it peaked in the Georgian era, hence Hotwells/Clifton). It is a cultural melting pot, I recently visited Liverpool but I have to say Bristol just feels so much more grassroots in the culture department. It also has the tourism edge, something a city like Leeds or Sheffield can't really compete with, plus it is nestled in the Mendip Hills so it equals Leeds' 'dales' advantage there. Bristol - whilst it does have it's deprived bits - has nothing on the scale of the Northern Cities. Vast swathes of Manchester and Salford are wasteland for example, you don't get that in Bristol.

The Public Transport and Traffic are awful, though Bristol Temple Meads > than any Northern Central Station with the exception of M Picadilly and Newcastle Central.

Also, Bath Stone > Red Brick. That's a point, Leeds may have Harrogate, Manchester may have Buxton, but Bristol has BATH!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Bristol%2C_Avon_Gorge_from_Clifton_Down.jpg

Oh and er, that is in the Inner City.

Yer but they say barrrth.

I always imagined Bristol to be a northern city in the south lol.

I always imagined Bristol to be a northern city in the south lol.

Nah, there's no plucky charm to the people or good natured chip on shoulder swagger that can only come from the Northern parts.

Bristol is in the Westcountry, yes it is in the Southern Half of the country but it's not Southern, the Westcountry is it's own thing.

Bristol is a truly magnificant city, it also grew a lot earlier than the Northern Cities (it peaked in the Georgian era, hence Hotwells/Clifton). It is a cultural melting pot, I recently visited Liverpool but I have to say Bristol just feels so much more grassroots in the culture department. It also has the tourism edge, something a city like Leeds or Sheffield can't really compete with, plus it is nestled in the Mendip Hills so it equals Leeds' 'dales' advantage there. Bristol - whilst it does have it's deprived bits - has nothing on the scale of the Northern Cities. Vast swathes of Manchester and Salford are wasteland for example, you don't get that in Bristol.

The Public Transport and Traffic are awful, though Bristol Temple Meads > than any Northern Central Station with the exception of M Picadilly and Newcastle Central.

Also, Bath Stone > Red Brick. That's a point, Leeds may have Harrogate, Manchester may have Buxton, but Bristol has BATH!

Agree with everything you have said. Great post.

If I had to live in one of the Core Cities it would be Bristol by a county mile. Bristol is immense. It has a totally different vibe to the Northern Cities as well, like a big Bath (the City not the Washing Implement).

I find this a common perception and i'm well aware of Bristol's lovely and extensively leafy, historic and largely affluent suburbs.

I don't get the big deal about the centre though. There are undoubtedly splendid parts around the cathedral, but i've always found it's 60's concrete 'makeover' and waterfront areas a bit underwhelming, and the main shopping streets pretty bland. Perhaps it was because very few people seem to have a bad word to say about the city that led me to expect too much. It reminded me more of midlands cities like Leicester and Nottingham than Bath and it's definitely not as magnificent or beautiful as we are always told.

Bristol doesn't have a city centre.

That's sort of the impression I got.

Bristol is nice enough, but I prefer the industrial magnificence of the Northern cities.

Plus Bristol is in the South.

It's at times like this that I'm glad I'm from the Midlands. I like - and dislike - the North and the South in equal measures. :yes:

It centre does however have leftover georgian residential areas, public squares and former docksides with concrete office blocks filling in the bits in-between.

You might call it a city centre, you might not. It just doesn't feel that defined and is a bit of a bugger on foot.

It's at times like this that I'm glad I'm from the Midlands

When I tell people up here I'm from the Midlands they usually look at me funny - "there's a Midlands? Where's that? Is it North or South?" I guess it is neither.

I actually sparked a mini-argument at work because I said Leeds is closer to the South than Shrewsbury is. Because the north-south divide is not horizontal, it just might be:

http://sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/maps/nsdivide/north-south_divide_UK_no_labels_blue_red_small.jpg

I miss being a midlander and not having to worry about these important things! At least I can watch Midlands Today online.

When I tell people up here I'm from the Midlands they usually look at me funny - "there's a Midlands? Where's that? Is it North or South?" I guess it is neither.

Those Northern people are so thick!! :lol: :lol:

....Just to keep up with the general stereotyping of this thread.

It annoys me when people dislike somewhere just because it's in the south, or vice versa. Try venturing from the comfort of your region and see there are nice, beautiful places and rough, ugly places in both the north and the south. It's only the accents that are different really. And a little bit more money in one half of the country. :troll:

Lets tour round the spectrum shall we? If Leeds really wants to try and compete with Manchester, they can consult this first and we'll play top trumps. See this not as a provoking post, but more of a slap in the face "wake up, stop being so naive, Manchester is superior to Leeds in every kind of way" kind of post.

Transport

- Metrolink. By 2016, it'll be the largest light rail system in the UK and one of the largest in Europe. The system already caters for 20 million people per year, and the new extensions are reaching out to more than a million people across the conurbation, improving transport for all. Leeds doesn't have a light rail network, nor is it building or planning to build one.


- Train network. Greater Manchester has a rail network of 130 route miles (209 km) and 91 stations. Leeds has 14 rail stations.


- Motorway Network. After Birmingham, we have arguably the best in the country. Considering 1/3 of households here in Greater Manchester don't own a car, it still seems pretty important to us.

Our orbital M60 ensures that 9/10 boroughs are connected together and busy motorways from across the country feed into the network. All major roads and other motorways into the City are linked, making driving around Greater Manchester a dabble.

Can't speak for Leeds, but I know it doesn't have an orbital motorway.


- Bus network. It's not the best, but it is one of the biggest.

- Air. We have the third largest airport in the country, and the 25th busiest in Europe. Leeds' airport is off the radar, it's tiny. And it'll never be as big as Manchester's.



Entertainment

Football - Arguably one of the best football cities in the world, people flock here from around the globe to see Manchester United play. Leeds United? What?

Concerts - 2nd busiest arena in the World. Once again, people flock here from across the UK & Europe to watch a concert here. We also use Old Trafford, LCCC, the Etihad and Heaton Park because demand for concerts here is too high for the MEN to cope with. Leeds is only just building an arena, and even then it won't compete with Manchester at all.

Theatres - plenty. But I don't think you can see a show in Manchester that you can't anywhere else though. Nothing special here, move along.

Festivals - the Bi-annual Manchester International Festival has been going from strength to strength recently. Gay Pride Parade, Irish Day festivals, Chinese New Year, Pakistan Independence Day, etc. Heaton Park does a lot in the way of festivals, too.


Retail

Trafford Centre - Leeds forumers constantly bang on about how they'll be better than us in 2013. But tell me, is that just Manchester City Centre, or does it include the Trafford Centre too? TC is massive, needless to say.

Northern Quarter - Vintage goods, cafes and boutique bars. It's all unique. Speaks for itself then that there's no where else in the world like it. I have friends in New York who buy stuff online from here very frequently.


Multiculturalism

Very important within a city if you ask me. In central Manchester, there's a 40% chance that if you bump into someone they'll be of international origin.

- Manchester has one of the largest Irish communities in the UK. Our St Patrick's day parade is one of Europe's largest.

- Manchester has one of the largest Italian communities in the UK.

- Manchester has one of the largest Carribean communities in the UK.

- The Gay Village. People come here from across Europe, too. It's one of Europe's largest gay districts.

- China Town. One of the UK's largest.

- The Curry Mile. Very famous and set in one of the largest Urdu-speaking neighbourhoods in Britain.

- Jewish population here is second only to London.


Media

- Coronation Street is the world's oldest and most watched TV soap.

- City is second only to London in Media output.

- MediaCityUK is Europe's largest purpose-built media complex.

- Various newspapers have been set up here, including the Guardian.


Tourism

- Third most visited by foreign tourists in the UK

- Third most visited by UK tourists, in England.




Oh god I give up. Just get the point and gtfo.

Oh you really have got Leedsitus very badly!!

With all the above, Leeds still has a much more attractive city. Far more attractive city centre and the most fantastic scenery on its doorstep. With all your developments, as a business person on the road, Leeds has perhaps an even better motorway network with the M62, M1, and A1 giving fast links across the country. We really are at the centre of the UK. We are pretty well connected on the National rail network, and although our airport is no where as big as Mancs, we now have nearly 80 destinations and rapidly growing, so I can travel through Europe without having to go to Manc.

In fact when you look at quality of life Leeds really does deliver big style. Its a great city to live in, and whatever you Manc guys say to knock it, you really havent got a clue, you don't live here and you havent experienced living and working in Manc against Leeds, and I have.

Sky - ever going to get around to telling us why having a large local authority is a good thing?

Probably not, just like you are not able to tell us how we will notice the arena is so different either :lol:

Sky - ever going to get around to telling us why having a large local authority is a good thing?

Probably not, just like you are not able to tell us how we will notice the arena is so different either :lol:

Already have, if you bothered to read my earlier posts.

I don't get the big deal about the centre though. There are undoubtedly splendid parts around the cathedral, but i've always found it's 60's concrete 'makeover' and waterfront areas a bit underwhelming, and the main shopping streets pretty bland. Perhaps it was because very few people seem to have a bad word to say about the city that led me to expect too much. It reminded me more of midlands cities like Leicester and Nottingham than Bath and it's definitely not as magnificent or beautiful as we are always told.


Mmm, though, unless you knew exactly where, when and what people were so positive about, it's a tad futile comparing your experience with theirs, is it not? Even then people will have wildly different criteria and attitudes as to what constitutes an ideal city or experience. I mean compare yourself with Tonksykins, two completely different opinions about the exact same place.

Already have, if you bothered to read my earlier posts.

Oh I have read every single one of them.

I presume you mean #16426 as your explanation - dear god, talk about small time and blinkered.

Your posts make it oh so clear that you put very little thoughts into what you post :lol:

Oh, and you have not told us what you expect will be the difference that we can expect to see with the Leeds arena - you have distinctly not stated if you agree with the Leeds council report that claimed about a third the visitors of the MEN over about 140 events per year.

I don't get the big deal about the centre though. There are undoubtedly splendid parts around the cathedral, but i've always found it's 60's concrete 'makeover' and waterfront areas a bit underwhelming, and the main shopping streets pretty bland. Perhaps it was because very few people seem to have a bad word to say about the city that led me to expect too much. It reminded me more of midlands cities like Leicester and Nottingham than Bath and it's definitely not as magnificent or beautiful as we are always told.

I got the exact same impression when i visited Bristol, it seemed overrated if i be totally honest just like most of the South West is tbh...

Mmm, though, unless you knew exactly where, when and what people were so positive about, it's a tad futile comparing your experience with theirs, is it not? Even then people will have wildly different criteria and attitudes as to what constitutes an ideal city or experience. I mean compare yourself with Tonksykins, two completely different opinions about the exact same place.

No, I don't think it's futile. It's interesting to discuss differing opinions on places visited.

If you need me to be more specific I would say that Il Tonkso's report isn't the first time I've heard people raving about Bristol and perhaps this influenced me to be contrary when I visited. I wasn't conscious of this clouding my judgment at the time though and I always try to find positives and merits in anywhere I visit. There were plenty to be found too. A few fantastically uniform pockets of commercial buildings and the cathedral area in particular.

However, I do have recollections of being actually startled by jarring brutalism in parts. There seemed to be a lot of rows of nominally office buildings with no active frontages and corners turned to find no shops or much of any description the full length of a lot of quiet streets where I had expected there to be lots of life before I turned the corner. Even streets of converted georgian houses with grubby sixties infill (another shock for such a well to do city) got to be a bit dull and just made it seem like there was a gap in the urbanity. As i've also stated I didn't find the centre to be particularly legible on foot and was not enamoured with much of the new waterfront architecture including the harbourside faux art deco development.

The point is taken that a lot of people find Bristol thrilling as they may be judging it on entirely different criteria though. Maybe I just need to give it another bash with a better idea of the parts I need to see.

a little bit more money in one half of the country. :troll:

:eek:

I was at a university open day before Christmas and one of the 'helpers/assistants' said "yer nut frum round 'ere, are ya?' ...at a university open day! There was every ethnicity within a 5 metre radius and he blurted that out :nuts:. "Southener?" he asked, and I just told him I lived near the Welsh border, a long way from the 'south', and left it at that.

Interestingly though, at work I am on phone duty before my Yorkshire counterparts. I do not speak queen's English, nor a West Midlands accent, but my voice probably sounds more 'London business' than many of our other staff.

Why is it always Manc vs Leeds here?

Why is it always Manc vs Leeds here?

Seems that many Loiners want to compare every development in their town with something in Manc.

See their arena thread for a start.

They continually make claims that almost everyone else from all over the country find ludicrous, always bigging up their town (nothing particularly wrong with that) but always making negative comments about the Manc facility that they are comparing to.

It is odd that they never, ever compare their city to Bristol - a very similar sized urban area - yet for some reasons they want to pick negatives in Manchester (as they see them) and go on about that.

TBF to the Leeds forum and it's numerous posters, it's still and always has been the usual suspects. They know who they are.

Yep, there are one or two Leeds posters who are for whatever reason determined to always make comparisons with Manchester.

Skychaser just the lastest one.

Oh, I may have posted numerous posts in this thread over the last few days, however, I don't think anyone could possibly point out any posts in which I am over egging anything Manc or overly playing down anything non-Manc.

Why is it always Manc vs Leeds here?

It's not. Often it's Liverpool vs Manchester and sometimes it's Brum vs Manchester.

The common denominator is Manchester (or at least some of it's posters)

They have a superiority complex which is not well founded and a greed for any investment/development that's available. The city motto should be:

"Us first, then us. If there's anything left over, we'll have it."

It's not. Often it's Liverpool vs Manchester and sometimes it's Brum vs Manchester.

The common denominator is Manchester (or at least some of it's posters)

They have a superiority complex which is not well founded and a greed for any investment/development that's available. The city motto should be:

"Us first, then us. If there's anything left over, we'll have it."

It's not!

It's never Brum V Manchester.
But it's always been East V Manchester. The common denominator being East.
We're happy with our lot. We don't go Looking for Scousers, Brummies or Lioners. East, Sloyne(now ignored), 10123 and the odd other Lioner come looking for Mancs.

I think this sums up East's......(fill in as appropriate) perfectly.


They have a superiority complex which is not well founded and a greed for any investment/development that's available

PS. I'm using my new Microsoft 5000 laser mouse and keyboard. Both are lightening sharp like me.(n/t)

Why is it always Manc vs Leeds here?



Becouse they are BOTH a deluded bunch, thats why.

Becouse they are BOTH a deluded bunch, thats why.

That's rich coming from you Brum X. You joined the deluded queue a long time ago. I still remember your posts. Don't even go there.

That's rich coming from you Brum X. You joined the deluded queue a long time ago. I still remember your posts. Don't even go there.



Difference is i know when stop and to call it a day, most of you dont.
:cheers:

However, I do have recollections of being actually startled by jarring brutalism in parts. There seemed to be a lot of rows of nominally office buildings with no active frontages and corners turned to find no shops or much of any description the full length of a lot of quiet streets where I had expected there to be lots of life before I turned the corner. Even streets of converted georgian houses with grubby sixties infill (another shock for such a well to do city) got to be a bit dull and just made it seem like there was a gap in the urbanity. As i've also stated I didn't find the centre to be particularly legible on foot and was not enamoured with much of the new waterfront architecture including the harbourside faux art deco development.



Where?

To be honest I'm surprised you weren't aware of the postwar developments in the centre. Like, completely and utterly surprised.


The point is taken that a lot of people find Bristol thrilling as they may be judging it on entirely different criteria though. Maybe I just need to give it another bash with a better idea of the parts I need to see.

When was the last time you were here?

Basically Manchester becomes the common denominator because a lot of posters on here are slightly jealous of Manchester. They try and compare their city to Manchester to make it seem big and important.

It's all very tedious, at least come up with new things to slag off, it's just the same old bullshit.

Birmingham has rubbish bins imo.

Consistently, not only in this subform people make comparisons to Manc.

There is the BBC thread in the Brum forum.

The Liverpool airport and economic forums make regular reference to Manc (but much less than previously).

The Leeds arena and transport forum cannot help compare to Manc and get wound up by perceived unfair funding.

I may be wrong, but I cannot remember any Manc thread that has ever compared Manc to any other city in a manner that is negative towards the other city.

When was the last time you were here?

Summer 2008

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-ash1/v252/161/4/616902268/n616902268_940157_3302.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-ash1/v252/161/4/616902268/n616902268_940153_4166.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-ash1/v252/161/4/616902268/n616902268_940156_2951.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-ash1/v252/161/4/616902268/n616902268_940151_3472.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-ash1/v252/161/4/616902268/n616902268_940162_345.jpg

I havent witnessed a Manchester vs Liverpool spat for ages. Which is good because it looks sad and bitter when this spat occurs.

I havent witnessed a Manchester vs Liverpool spat for ages. Which is good because it looks sad and bitter when this spat occurs.

Correct.

It only happens when East talks to himself. He's a bit like 'Fight Club'. Beating himself up.(about it)

The Leeds arena and transport forum cannot help compare to Manc and get wound up by perceived unfair funding.


One quote was discussed from SMG's ceo who stated that people would want to come to Leeds arena from Manchester and Newcastle. I see no issue with this. Isn't it the CEO of SMG you should have this argument with as they brought it up? Its like a developer in Manchester saying 'finally we will have something that will rival Victoria Quarter in Leeds, and Selfirdges in Birmingham. Instead of going to Leeds/Bum they will come here'
This would be discussed on the Manc forums. Whether it be the case or not (obviously not as Victoria Quarter is beast).

One quote was discussed from SMG's ceo who stated that people would want to come to Leeds arena from Manchester and Newcastle. I see no issue with this. Isn't it the CEO of SMG you should have this argument with as they brought it up? Its like a developer in Manchester saying 'finally we will have something that will rival Victoria Quarter in Leeds, and Selfirdges in Birmingham. Instead of going to Leeds/Bum they will come here'
This would be discussed on the Manc forums. Whether it be the case or not (obviously not as Victoria Quarter is beast).

Question.

Why would anyone go to Leeds Arena from Manchester or Newcastle? Please tell us which artists are going to pick a 14,000 capacity arena over a 21,000 capacity arena? Example. Over a 5 date tour that's 35,000(x£50) extra tickets. You do the maths. Exactly.

We also have a situation in Manchester where there are two Selfridges, two John Lewis, a proper and full size Harvey Nics, a Kendals, a shopping centre totalling 1.8million sq ft of trading space, King Street, Cathedral Walk, the Avenue, Afflecks, the NQ, etc, etc.

Now why the f*** would anyone from Manchester need to go to Leeds(or Birmingham) to do their shopping?

Yes well I am also baffled as to why the arena is so small. Im keeping my opinion to myself on the Leeds forum but I expect it to be a massive failure. I stand by the fact that the numbers who travel to Manchester will drop somewhat, only due to some of the shows coming to Leeds as well. As you quite rightly said, why would any famous act go to Leeds when Machester has many more seats. SMG must know what they are doing, I hope they do as Leeds council dont have a clue about anything.

Question.

Now why the f*** would anyone from Manchester need to go to Leeds(or Birmingham) to do their shopping?

Our shopping experience is unique. How having a massive generic shopping mall in the center is a good thing I'll never know. Leeds shopping is based around our historic arcades. All 7 and soon to be 8 of them. Victoria Quarter is unrivalled in every aspect, the quality of architecture is immense, the same too for the corn exchange. Both of which have been highlighted as one of Britain's finest example of Victorian architecture. We have the largest covered indoor market in Europe also another example of spectacular architecture. If a generic mall is your thing then great, Manchester wins hands down.

We also have a situation in Manchester where there are two Selfridges, two John Lewis, a proper and full size Harvey Nics, a Kendals, a shopping centre totalling 1.8million sq ft of trading space, King Street, Cathedral Walk, the Avenue, Afflecks, the NQ, etc, etc.

Now why the f*** would anyone from Manchester need to go to Leeds(or Birmingham) to do their shopping?

FWIW from my experience of family, friends and work colleagues the three places that Mancs do travel to shopping, especially at Christmas are London, York and Chester.

I don't think I have ever heard of anyone going to any other town or city for shopping.